Clavicular, a 19-year-old "looks maxing" advocate, dismantles Michael Knowles in an interview by questioning conservative dating priorities and jaw surgery ($35K) as a waste of time. Knowles defends extreme self-optimization—like Botox or tailored suits—as pragmatic success tools, dismissing activism as ineffective. Both critique porn’s role in distorting attraction but clash over whether looks maxing dehumanizes, with Knowles arguing status compensates for physical limits. The debate reveals a movement prioritizing individualism over systemic change, framing societal shifts like transgender visibility as distractions from personal advancement. [Automatically generated summary]
Welcome to another episode of Pearl Daily here at the Audacity Network, which is the network out of my basement.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you guys so much for being here.
I know you guys are hardworking men and like the two women that watch me.
I know you guys are there too.
You could be anywhere and for some reason you choose to be here.
So thank you.
So today we are going to be reacting to Michael Knoll's interview with Clavicular.
Now, if you didn't know, Clavicular is like this young guy who's obsessed with looks maxing.
So much so that he hit himself in the face with like a hammer to grow his face.
And I could not believe, I really could not believe how much this 19 year old kid was just cooking, like absolutely destroying Michael Knowles and the Conservative Party.
And I'm going to, I'm going to break it down before we react to the full interview.
I haven't seen the entire thing, but I saw like a parts of the middle.
But essentially, Michael Knowles is coming out and saying, young men, get politically involved.
And these Gen Z men are not buying it.
Look, I have seen conservatism waste people's time for a decade.
I've seen the Daily Wire push this stuff and waste people's time.
It's why I'm such an avid anti-Daily Wire, you know, Pete, whatever.
And so I just love seeing these young guys not buy the bullshit.
Alright, should I freestyle to start the show or should we just get into it?
It's kind of a long video.
I might.
Black fatigue.
Black fatigue.
Seaniquo, please take out the weave.
Black fatigue.
Black fatigue.
Seaniquo, please take out the weave.
We could do conservative fatigue.
Trad fatigue.
Trad fatigue.
You guys are just cosplaying.
Trad fatigue.
Trad fatigue.
You guys are playing pretend to me.
Oh, oh.
Let's put on a show.
What the hell do they know?
Let's put on a show.
What the hell do they know?
Stop it.
Stop it.
I know I deserve a record deal.
I know.
I know, I know, I know.
Okay.
We're not going to do too much with that.
We're just going to get to reacting.
All right.
So we are going to, I was watching this on my own and I was like, I think, I think we need to watch this together as class.
I think I'm going to start 20 minutes in.
I might skip to the hour mark because I thought the hour mark was where he really cooked, but I kind of want to see the beginning.
Does not absolutely.
No, and you're fully right.
And before we go any further down this rabbit hole, I don't want to act like these two forms of improvement are mutually exclusive whatsoever.
I advocate for all the same stuff you're talking about.
I think that, you know, learning a high value skill is one of the most important things that you could do.
I'm just saying that it's going to be easier for you to actually ascend and overcome a lot of the disparities in the dating market through looks.
I'm not saying neglect, you know, getting rich, neglect, you know, your status.
That would be absolutely ridiculous for me to suggest.
So I'm saying a well-rounded magger is kind of required with how difficult the scene is these days.
I grant.
I sometimes think that I got the last chopper at NAM, you know, because I'm a millennial.
So Michael Knowles and a lot of these conservative types really are going to, they're a little bit late because social media is much more important now.
I can't remember the numbers, but the percentage of women that actually have like big, have a TikTok and even Instagram with like followers, it's a good percentage of the market.
So I think maybe Michael Knowles is like a mid-millennial, I think middle-aged.
I think he's like 40, 30, mid-30s.
Okay, you want it to be higher.
So Michael knows about all the degeneracy.
anything his age group partied harder than we did um but i don't know if looks was as important then because he probably would have been in like the facebook generation uh i I was single for a bit and I always liked dating when I was single, but I, you know, married the love of my life and we have this great life.
And I think, man, if I had to date in the year of our Lord 2025, I would be very upset.
I would have to learn how to mog.
I would have to learn how to mew.
I would have to learn all these skills that I don't possess.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I would say that the main reason that is, is because of Instagram, right?
And a lot of people don't understand the implications of, you know, access to the internet and access to communicating with everyone across the entire world, essentially.
So what that looks like in terms of a hypergamy standpoint was, you know, maybe you had a girl from your town who's going to try to date above her looks level, maybe just in her immediate surroundings.
But now we've got people like, you know, professional athletes DMing them on Instagram, flying them out.
So you're not going to.
Yeah.
And the thing is, you guys have no idea how prevalent this is.
Well, maybe the younger guys do.
I think there's kind of a lot of cope for men that aren't actually dating attractive women or women in the dating market.
Now, not every woman's going to be able to get in contact with an A-list celebrity.
Like I do you think A-list celebrities, but even actually, do you know what?
Even me, I've met one or two.
I mean, they didn't really, they didn't hit on me.
Shocking, I know.
But just, I mean, just getting in contact with that high level of men kind of messes women up.
So, especially if you're delusional and think you have a chance.
Competing with the top Chads of your 15-mile radius, you're competing with the entire world.
So it's just the Chads of the world, maybe who even live in Chad.
Yeah, a nation of Chad.
You got no idea.
Well, I doubt it.
But so it's becoming increasingly difficult to compete as like the average guy.
So there's this purgatory zone where even someone who's average to above average could be struggling to secure a long-term relationship a lot of the times.
And that's like really alarming.
This is very interesting because the observation you're making pertains to the economic discussion too.
A lot of the debates over free trade and economic policy in the last 10 years have revolved around the perils of globalization.
Previously, you only had to compete against your countrymen.
Now you got to compete against your countrymen.
The flood of foreigners that comes in.
I just hate how he talks.
I hate how he talks.
Like, are you human?
Do you know what I mean?
it's like across an open border and a globalized world with jobs being outsourced all over the globe.
Yeah, exactly.
Very similar, um, but yeah, no, even if it was just domestically, like it, things are really bad.
Like, when you've got girls being like flown out by like Shaquille O'Neal, uh, and you're just an average guy making you know, maybe eighty thousand dollars a year, like, what are you supposed to do?
Does that happen?
Does Shaquille O'Neal fly out girls from Palocaville?
Oh, I'm sure, yeah.
Well, look, if you actually go through like the numbers, like some of these guys are banging.
I know a guy that goes through like 50 to 100 women a year.
That's a lot of bitches.
That is a lot of bitches, you know.
So, uh, there are men that like run through entire towns, you know, absolutely.
Does he really, or is that the thing?
Like, I, it's a fun story, I and I guess it could have, but does that really happen?
Absolutely, yeah.
No, I've seen professional athletes like following like girls I knew from like my hometown.
Like, this is like a very common thing because, with how degenerate, yeah, and that's and that's the thing.
Michael Knowles is he's a simp.
So, the simps, there's the guy, there's the pimps, the simps, and the sexless.
Now, the pimps know what's going on because they're the ones pimping, they're banging all the women.
The women bang the pimps but sell purity to the simps.
And the simps they want to believe the lie.
Like, Michael Knowles and his wife broke up in college.
What do you think that she did in college?
I mean, the pimps know they're like, We know, but we're not going to say anything because we love, we need the simps to clean up our mess, obviously.
I know, should I start?
How is I have?
Do I ever recessed?
Am I recessed?
Because do you know what?
I was actually looking at a jaw because I know he does the looks maxing.
I actually kind of wanted to get the um palette expander because I really have TMJ and I've had it for years, and I just want it to go away so bad.
Oh, I want it to go away so bad.
Do you hear this?
Like, look, but I know I noticed.
Sorry, when my jaw goes like forward, it doesn't pop as much, but I can't.
Then it's like an over, you see, I can't.
So, I don't know.
Apparently, that could fix it.
I mean, who cares?
But that's what I was thinking about.
The looks maxers.
I'm like, is that what they do?
I don't know.
Am I sharing too much?
What am I doing?
Am I sharing too much?
No, but it like pops and it pops so loud.
And I can't, I've tried to get it to go away for years.
i've had it since i was 16 i'm talking too much Fuck me.
It's like, what am I doing?
Okay.
So I'm making this about me women.
My point is this, um, it might take 10 years to get this to go away.
All right, I'm going to keep going.
I'm just going to keep.
My point is this: the women know what's going on, the pimps know what's going on, the simps want to believe that it's not that bad, but it is that bad.
Society has moved.
These girls are taking on so many different sexual partners that there's a lot of plausibility for this kind of stuff.
So the promiscuity is a major problem.
I mean, on a whole host of social levels.
But what you're telling me is looks maxing is chiefly about getting a girlfriend.
No, no.
And that's what he's trying to belittle him, right?
He's trying to like make it.
It's kind of like the incel argument.
Look, I've tried the exercises.
I've tried so much stuff to make the TMJ goes away.
Go away.
That I'm looking at palate expansion, and I know I have a tongue tie, so that's might be part of it.
We'll see.
I don't know.
I have an appointment in January, so we'll see.
Your looks are going to improve your quality of life in a lot of different regards, whether it be in the workplace, um, just overall opportunities presented to you.
This is all going to be tailored to looks.
And the main thing that you need to understand is the halo effect.
I don't know if you've heard about this.
What is the halo effect?
The halo effect is that people are going to perceive the things that you say and the things that you do a lot better if you're good looking.
So, there's like that meme where some really good-looking guy goes up.
He's like, Hey, Shelly, nice dress today.
And she's like, Oh, thanks, Giga Chat.
And then some like fat guy walks up.
He's like, Nice dress, Shelly.
And she's like, Ah, hello, HR.
Exactly.
Yeah, so no, that's a pinnacle example of the halo effect and what that looks like.
So, if you've got to be this fat slob who's getting HR complaints for that you saw, you know, another guy do two seconds ago, that's got to be quite brutal, you know.
So, um, just your overall well-being, if you're an unattractive person and nobody even wants to look at you in the elevator, no one even wants to shake your hand or acknowledge you, uh, it's horrible for your mental for your mental well-being, and that's why I think looks maxing goes a lot further than just getting a girlfriend, like that seems like a very silly thing to do.
At least, though, you would have to say the thesis of looks maxing is that looks are the most important thing in life, yeah.
What about the and that's true?
Look, and this isn't I'm someone I could have looks maxed more in my life, I never cared about this stuff, but I've I've seen women.
This is the thing: I've seen women get surgeries and their lives change.
I'm just being for real here.
I've seen women and men, not men as much, but I had a friend who was an eight plus in a lot in a former life.
She got to hang out with A-list celebrities.
I've met women that are just paid to be hot.
I mean, that I agree with him.
I think that's actually, and I said this to the Black Pillars years ago: that I do think it starts with looks.
Um, yeah, Kylie Jenner, yeah, I know people act like they think she looked better before.
No, she didn't.
Like, let's just let's just keep it a buck.
Non-physical things, you know.
I'm a little older than you, and when I was a kid, we were told looks aren't everything.
Don't judge a book by its cover, it's what's on the inside that counts.
Uh, you know, Christianity and religion generally teaches us that there is more to life than the material aspects of this world, and you know, we need to focus on the spirit.
Yeah, no, absolutely.
But the thing is, yeah, and some people are saying look smacks or it doesn't work.
Now, I don't think you can improve that much.
Like, I think maybe a five could go to like a six, six and a half.
Like, I don't think I do think you're kind of cooked where you start, but there are certain things we can't deny.
Like, would Melania Trump look as good at her age without whatever the hell enhancements that she got?
No.
Um, it's just come on, let's just keep it a buck.
Your subconscious tells you, uh, if someone is genetically disfortunate, that they are lesser than you, and you have to kind of now you're saying Pearl's justifying.
I'm not trying to justify it, but like, we got to be real that some of it works.
Like, I just don't like, I think sometimes the conservatives are kind of delusional.
Yeah, like a guy with Myron got the hair transplant.
It looks better than him being bald.
Like, I, do you like, are you, what are you guys, women?
Are you women?
We're not delusional here.
And you know what?
The biggest difference in attention I've ever noticed for anything like fake, I've done, and I haven't done much, right?
But it was actually fake hair.
I know.
I got fake hair extensions for a while.
And I couldn't believe how much more attention I got, like male attention.
It was kind of blackpilling.
I'm like, oh, wow, this isn't supposed to like work.
They can't tell this is oh.
And I have clippings.
I don't wear them much because it's just, but yeah, no, let's be real.
Fight that if you're thinking in terms of like Christianity to acknowledge them as an equal.
So if you've got to go against like your biological instincts to have a belief system, it already kind of just makes it a little bit difficult, you know.
Yeah, but don't we do that in a whole host of ways?
Like there's, I believe in original sin and I and concupiscence.
I think it's a fallen world.
And so sometimes people drive me crazy and I kind of want to murder them.
My biology or some fallen aspect of my nature urges me to murder them or to go sleep with a hundred other women who aren't my wife or to eat 10 more cupcakes off the table.
And I have to fight against that just as I fight against all sin.
But what's easier to convince every single person in the state or in the United States to treat everyone equally based on looks and really fight their biological instincts or to individually improve yourself so that you don't have to?
Well, I guess maybe the question then becomes over the improvement because you've already granted that some of these drugs that you're taking, they might have negative side effects.
Now, is looks maxing all just drugs or no, no, no.
What else is there to it?
So there's a lot of stuff about like coloring, like, you know, being tanner.
It could even be as simple as tanning?
Yes.
Well, the UV damage and UV exposure can certainly.
No, I'm saying from the LuxMax perspective, do people like the tanner people or the whiter people?
The tanner people, actually.
And they've done a lot of different surveying about this.
Usually tanned European phenotypes are the most ideal.
Because you would think.
Damn it.
I'm really pale.
Do you know what?
I did get a spray tan when I was younger, like once, and it did look better.
So I got a, it really popped my eyes, but I just couldn't.
There's some stuff.
If I have to continually do it on a regular basis, I'm just not going to do it.
Oh, maybe this is just racist.
But you would, I thought the idea was people value whiteness more.
And that's one of the great sins of our culture is that whiteness is considered more beautiful than brownness or blackness.
But you're saying, no, it's the it's the basically you need to Sicilian max and then you're in a good spot.
Yeah, not necessarily.
I mean, it's, it's also just a health indicator to be a little bit more tanned rather than completely pale.
So that's why people often prefer it.
So that's another part.
It could even be as simple as getting leaner.
Lean maxing is a big part of looks maxing.
And that's arguably the most important thing that you could do because you can do all this.
You can get surgeries.
But at the end of the day, if you're, you know, 20, 25% body fat, you're not even able to see any of your facial angularity or definition.
You've got no idea what's underneath all of the sludge.
Okay, so you get rid of the sludge, you go on a good diet, you work out, you and maybe, okay, that's basic.
Everyone, yeah, okay.
You want to look better, you work out and eat better.
Everyone knows that.
Everyone knows that.
Then you raise the stakes a little bit and you say, and inject yourself with things like testosterone and other hormones.
Okay, that raises it a little bit.
Is that it?
Is that where it maxes out?
No, so I'm getting a double jaw surgery in a couple of weeks from now.
So that's probably the furthest it goes is plastic surgery.
This is really ignorant, and I'm learning a lot sitting here.
Okay.
What do you mean, a double jaw surgery?
You're not getting a second jaw.
No, they just perform.
Now, some people are saying, they're saying, but the girls are like, people always look weird when they have plastic surgery.
That's true.
Some people do, but it's a calculated risk.
There's winners and losers.
There's winners and losers in this life.
Some people look weird.
Some people look good.
Two osseotomies.
Meaning like one side and the other side?
No, no, no.
So your upper jaw, which is your maximum.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, yeah.
And your lower jaw, your mandible.
They're just doing an osteotomy on both of the jaws and then advancing them forward.
Why are you doing that?
You're a good looking guy.
Well, you know, because I want to look better, right?
Why?
Why?
Okay.
Before I ask my next question, why do you want to look better?
Meaning, look, I would get it if you looked like some mutant and you had some deformities and it was really messing up your life, but you're tall, muscular, you've got defined bone features.
Why do you need to go further?
Well, I mean, you're already rich.
You know, why are we here right now doing this interview?
Because I think.
Oh, my God.
He cooked.
He cooked.
I don't think he's really saying, look, I mean, the jaw surgery would be a little extreme for me, but look, you see these before and afters.
You just cannot.
There's a girl on my team who had jaw surgery and she looked way better after.
I mean, come on, guys.
Let's just, let's just be real.
She looks way better after.
Can we just look?
I just, please stop being delusional.
Now, I understand it's a risk and there's side effects and you might be a loser.
But I mean, even BBLs, I mean, if women can't lose the weight, they look better with a BBL than fat.
So, I mean, I wouldn't get it personally, but that around on you.
I like having money.
Money's a nice thing to have.
But I don't really like spending money that much.
And so I'm happy to make the money and get more money.
But I think there's more than my work.
You get what I'm saying, right?
No, but I think it's an important distinction.
Glass house, right?
Michael Knowles throws a lot of stones from a glass house.
That's his point.
I work for a lot more than money.
If I only wanted to make money, I would have gone into banking or consulting or something.
So I work for a lot more than that.
What are you working for when you get the double jaw surgery?
To look better.
And, you know, just because you're already doing okay or you're well off, is that a reason to quit?
Is that a reason to sort of put the brakes on?
That seems a little ridiculous.
Let me ask it in another way.
Yeah.
You say, why do I need to keep working?
And I say, well, in part, it's to make more money and then I can put my kids through school and maybe I can take them on a vacation or whatever.
But it's also to spread harder.
To spread the ideas that I care about.
It's also to so he's trying to, Michael Knowles, and that's what a lot of the conservatives do.
He's saying, I'm very moral.
You're not moral.
And that's why we hate these fuckers.
That's why we can't stand them because that's half their platform is just, I am so moral.
You are not moral.
I mean, that's what they do to me.
You know, you're not married.
You need to have kids blah blah blah, blah.
It's like, all right, we get it, we get it.
You are, you're more moral than me, you win now, can we, can we move on?
You know yeah, virtue signaling.
It's like, yeah, come on, i'm my, money is good money and it's moral money.
Raise my political influence in ways that I think would help shape the country in a good way.
It's also to spread my view of religion, spread the gospel, hopefully convert some people.
They compare themselves to Jesus.
They're basically god.
It's like, well, they compare themselves to the apostles.
It's like I don't know if the apostles made millions of dollars off of evangelization.
I don't know.
I, you know what I mean?
There are myriad of reasons that I would continue to work, but it would be doing the interview and doing the shows for those reasons.
And so what I'm asking you is, what...
You already look good, why do you want what?
What is looking better for?
Um, so i'm someone who just wants to mog.
Essentially I, you know, and i've done this, this uh speech, a few times I don't really care about, you know, getting girls.
That's kind of lost its novelty.
Uh, at this point I just want to mog people.
I want to have, you know, a better halo effect and just better overall quality of life through my looks.
Look, sometimes a guy just wants to mog.
I totally I get it.
You know what I mean.
But but this, this then brings us back to the spiritual point that I alluded to.
I could get the looks maxing if it were about getting a girl.
You couldn't get a girl now.
You want to get a girl now.
Getting a girl isn't just so.
That's a simp thought.
Because the pimps, like they don't care about women because they've had too many women, the sexless.
They don't care about women because they've decided to opt out of the dating market or they just realize they're not in the dating pool.
But it's the simps that they see everything being through women get laid.
In my humble opinion, getting a girl is is so, is so that you can get married and you can have a family and you can have kids and you can.
That's kind of a simp thought because their end game is like a family.
That's women's end game.
Um, men's end games got to be being awesome.
You know that's the, the sexless and the pimps end games.
It's i'm going to be awesome where the, the simps, are always thinking about women.
So be part of your community and you can.
You know it's, it's for stuff I, I would get looks maxing if you say well, so that I can get a better job because employers are going to treat me better and they're going to promote me okay, I see that's for something.
But if you're saying, if you're saying with a straight face, even with a new double jaw, straight face, you say look man, I just want to mog, yeah then then I would have to ask at that point, isn't looks maxing just vanity?
I would say in a lottery, Yeah, so he's going to say you're vain.
And it's like, okay, well, you're greedy because you like to make a lot of money.
You know.
Regards, you know, it could be perceived that way, but that's my interpretation of it.
And that's just my overall thing.
And the word mog could mean so much, right?
That could mean all the things that you just mentioned.
What do we mean by mog, I guess?
Just live.
What is a mogger?
A mogger.
Walsh's new movie.
A mogger is someone who's just like, I would say, you know, the peak human.
And that's kind of what I'm going for.
And that's in all metrics, right?
I don't want to only mog in looks.
I also want to mog in wealth.
I also want to mog in status, just becoming as well-rounded, like a full-package mugger as I can.
I get that.
And there's a lot that's admirable about that.
But there is a part that you have left out in your total mogging package, which is something we were just talking about.
And I wonder if the spiritual aspect?
Yes.
Does that cut against all of the other mogging?
Is there any conflict there?
I don't think so.
I really don't think so at all.
You know, there might be certain parts of religion, whether it be Christianity, or I'm not sure if other people might be followers of Islam that might.
Christianity is the true one.
Don't worry.
Don't worry about the other ones.
Well, just to acknowledge, like whatever viewers are watching, but I would tend to agree with you.
You know, I'm not sure if there's different scripture about not modifying yourself to that extent.
You know, well, in the old law, you can't have tattoos, but I'm not much of a theologian, so I couldn't speak to that too well.
There is a way.
You know what?
But it doesn't matter what he says because you guys all have Botox.
I mean, I don't know if Knowles does, but you guys are never going to not let women have Botox and plastic surgery.
You're never going to take it away from women.
So as long as you're like, think about this.
Candace Owens has a pound of makeup.
She was at the Daily Wire, pound of makeup.
Brett Cooper, pound of makeup.
Candace Owens clearly is Botox.
Brett Cooper will have Botox one day.
It's not if it's when.
Megan Kelly Botox.
The stuff that Clavicular is doing is stuff that women have always done.
But if a man does it, they shame him for it.
So warning against in the Christian religion, against pride, you know, excessive love of one's own excellence against vanity, against making idols out of the material things of this world.
These are some of the, if you wanted to be the greatest spiritual mugger, I do want.
I just, you guys are going to think of a better argument, but how are you as a podcaster going to lecture me about like vanity?
Do you know what I mean?
I don't know.
It's just.
Yeah, I mean.
I wonder if that would conflict with mogging in all of these other areas, physically in terms of wealth and elsewhere.
I could see how it could, but I don't really think that it necessarily would in my case.
Here's me one verse that I'm going to rewrite a little bit.
It is easier for the camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealth-maxed mugger to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Okay.
Interesting.
That's the MKV version of the Bible.
Yeah, so I don't really have too much regard for the spiritual aspect when I'm trying to look smacks.
I'm kind of all in on what I'm doing right now.
And I'm not, you know, necessarily advocating against Christianity.
I think that there's a lot that can be gained from religion.
And a lot of young men, it's helped so many people.
But this is just my pursuit in the immediate moment.
Okay.
So then bringing it back to more quotidian things, you say, you said something earlier, you said, look, I'm not doing it just to get girls.
The shine has rubbed off of that.
Do you, do you have a girlfriend?
No.
No girlfriend.
Do you want a girlfriend?
I'm a little bit young.
I'm kind of focused on career right now.
I've heard a lot of my, but, you know, I had, I had my first girlfriend.
I was 12.
And maybe that's a little bit too young.
And then I dated in high school, ended up marrying my high school sweetheart, albeit later.
And so I don't know.
I never found, I've heard this from my friends where they say, I'm not focused on girls now.
I'm going to have a career.
I'm going to be established.
I'm going to make some money.
And then I'll worry about dating and getting married when I'm 30 or 30.
Conservatives kick the ladder out from under them.
They use promiscuity to benefit.
Like women will use whoring.
Like I said, women will use whoring to get where they got.
Women will use makeup, hair, all that stuff to get to where they want to go.
Men will use being a player, right?
Like he went to New York and dated around.
He did gay scenes, right?
To get where he wanted to go.
And then say, no, you guys can't do it.
35.
Yeah, no, that's another cope because people, by the time they're 35, a lot of their youth indicators have gone to and they haven't really gained enough progress to justify that looks decline with maybe the increase in income and that kind of thing.
So I would say that's probably not a good idea, but certainly at 19 years old for me to put my career sort of at a halt or at least slow down the traction that I've been gaining seems a little bit ridiculous.
Does it need to?
Just having a girlfriend or it does.
Why do you say that?
Just in my personal case, I mean, I do a lot of content that's talking to other girls.
What he's saying, Michael Knowles, he's saying, I'm better than you because I'm married.
And that's what all these people do.
That's why they're so despicable.
Because it's like, if you, if you cared about your family so much, then why are you using them to advance your career and win arguments?
You know, pursuing maybe like one night stand sort of stuff.
Wait, you do content that involves one night.
You're not a pornographer.
No, no, no.
Just like trying to go to like parties and sleigh.
Okay.
So it's like, is it like pickup artists?
Now, Michael's going to pretend, but he lived in New York City.
He did the same thing.
He's just going to pretend he didn't, right?
No, no, no, no.
Just like testing out like, it's basically just like a litmus test.
Like, do I mog yet?
Or like, so like, for instance, you would get the jaw surgeries and you say, okay, I thesis, hypothesis, I am going to slay more and mog harder once I have the jaw surgery.
I will test this through the methodology of the party.
Is this too fast?
I want to go to 1.5.
Tell me if it's too fast.
Okay.
That's kind of the idea behind it.
And also with streaming, I stream every single day for hours.
I'm on my computer all day.
I really don't have the time to be really an interesting partner for any woman.
That's for sure.
Would that maybe balance you out a little bit if you took an hour a day to go to?
I don't even think with a, I mean, I'm going to be honest with you.
If I had an extra hour a day, I would be using it at the gym before I'd use it to go get a drink.
You know, that seems a little bit.
Not just to go get a drink, but to get a drink with a girl, with a girlfriend, but the potential wife.
In other words, is your life a little bit out of balance?
Are you thinking a little too much about next year?
Remember, Michael Knowles lived in New York City.
There's stuff of him doing gay stuff.
And then magically, when he's done, he's like, oh, you can't do it.
And it's like, well, you guys did that to get where you wanted to go.
So.
Sing out yourself.
Would it actually help you perhaps to take that hour?
But it's never an hour because let's actually break it down.
So first of all, you've got to identify a girl, right?
Then you've got to shoot her a first inquiry, whether it be an Instagram message or a cold approach.
So we're already like down two hours, right?
That just how long does it take you to write?
You know, it takes me a long time to find a hot girl these days.
Well, if you've got standards, it's literally two hours.
So you go around, you find this girl, then you have to go and do an activity.
God forbid.
That's like, you know, maybe four or five hours doing some gesture maxed, like bowling or whatever Normie Copes, like Zoomers do.
So that's before we move on.
What is gesture maxed?
Like they're clowns.
When you go bowling with a girl?
I mean, I don't think I've ever gone on a bowling date, but why is doing an activity with a girl you want to date necessarily gesture maxed?
Because you're just like this, I think of it like you're this big jester, like doing these silly like activities.
Like you're basically like just an activity cell.
Like what are you doing?
Like bowling?
What if you become just a dinner cell, which is a less clownish activity?
I'd say that's a little bit more reasonable, but we still have the same issue of the inconvenience, right?
And the time, right?
That's three hours.
No, you would be taking, you're right.
You would be saying the time that I otherwise would be spending working out, injecting, jaw maxing, time that would be entirely focused on myself.
I will be taking the three hours or four hours, however many hours, to focus on another person and another person with whom I could maybe build a life.
Potentially, yeah.
But I would say that what's available to you and your options will increase drastically if you instead dedicate those three, four hours into maximizing other metrics of your life.
So now when it's finally time to enter the dating market and settle down with that long-term partner, you're more established as a man and you've got a lot more going for you.
Okay.
Here's my rejoinder to that.
This too, when you're talking about how you approach a girl, even that has this through line of everything's on.
Look, my way, you said, weigh in on the bowling date.
Drinks.
I don't know why men bother with dinner.
I don't know why they bother with bowling.
The only thing you're trying to figure out on the first few dates is do you want to bang him?
Oh, let's date about values.
Are you dumb?
No, no, bitches don't have values.
Let's see if you're hot enough that she wants to adopt yours.
Oh, but we want to talk about dating intentionally.
Yeah.
Do you know what?
Do you know what guys do when they hear that you're dating intentionally, ladies?
They intentionally lie.
And they say, they just say, you know, and what about for the men?
If you're hot enough, if you say you're looking for a wife, she'll start lying too.
We're both liars.
So let's just see if we want to hook up.
Okay.
Let's just see if we're hot enough that we find each other attractive.
I'm not saying the first date.
I'm not saying the second.
I mean, however many, like, but let's see how this progresses.
I mean, are you accepting degeneracy?
Are you a virgin?
Are you waiting till marriage?
I mean, come on.
Can we just, Clav's going to hit that later?
Online.
Your work is online.
You discovered looks maxing online.
You found the drugs online.
You started swiping right online.
And even now you're saying.
I can't even say, like, he's trying to shame him now and saying, oh, you're super online.
Michael, everyone you know, you've met online.
Like, where have you been?
I mean, the past five years, everyone, pretty much everyone I know, I met online.
I have not met many people in real life.
Yeah, I know a Christian guy waiting for marriage in his 50s.
You're going to be waiting for the rest of your life.
So, yeah.
What did I do during high school?
I'll tell you my high school schedule.
Three o'clock, I'd get out of school.
Then I'd have a two-hour volleyball basketball practice.
Then I would drive an hour and I would go to volleyball practice.
And that was another two hours.
That was my high school.
So.
Well, if I want to approach a girl, you know, I got to find her and I have to send her a DM.
And I think.
Well, that's just one avenue.
I also acknowledge like the in-person approach method.
Yes.
But that's the first one that came to mind.
And I think that's probably true for most people.
And I think, all right, yeah, that's true.
It's probably tough.
If I were single today, I'd be on the apps all the time.
However, I think I would.
Maybe I wouldn't.
I don't know.
It's hard to find Mogs hard, especially if you have a lot of followers.
You're much better off there.
That's true.
Although then I'd kind of worry.
Are they just after me for my like maxing grandmogging?
Or do they really love me?
Well, if you're just trying to go for like, you know, one night stands and slay, it doesn't really matter.
I would no longer be trying to slay.
I would be trying to capture and marry.
Oh, I would not be, I would find it to be sinful to fornication max.
I would be avoiding that.
So then it makes me think, all right.
Yeah.
And so that's very performative.
Again, Michael, you married in your late 20s.
You went to New York.
What were you doing for that decade?
And you could see in his comment section, it's a lot of women that just want men like him to keep pushing these lies.
But let's just keep it a buck.
Well, I don't have to do that now because I'm married.
And I did something very strange, which is I married my high school sweetheart.
We split up for a little bit in the middle, but I married my high school sweetheart, which people used to do all the time.
And what did you do when you guys split up?
Do you see what I'm saying?
I'm not stupid.
Very few people do now.
And a lot of people will say, don't marry your high school sweetheart because, especially if you're an ambitious, self-improving looks maxer, the pool that you can pick from is going to be so much better five or 10 years from now when you're in the professional world.
No, the challenge is women aren't going to marry their high school sweetheart because they can go party with celebrities in the cities.
That's some wealth and status.
Right.
I have anecdotally observed, but the plural of anecdote is data, that the best marriages I've ever seen have been people who knew each other when they were very young, kids even, which is not online, which is not about status, really, because everyone's kind of equal in school, which is not primarily physical.
Obviously, you have to have a physical attraction, but you're not grading people on scales.
It seems to be totally the opposite of everything you're describing in the modern dating market.
But might that old way be better?
I don't really disagree with you there about the whole high school sweetheart thing because that's like a theory that we talk about called just be first in the LuxMax community.
And the idea behind that is all the pair bonding abilities remain intact if you're marrying young and both partners are virgins, especially the woman.
That tends to lead to more everlasting relationships, lower divorce rates.
I think the data absolutely agrees with you there.
I'm just simply saying that in my case, it would be a comical idea to put my career at a standstill for a girlfriend because that is almost required.
It's very rare that you're able to progress to the degree that you otherwise would be with a long-term partner.
Well, certainly in what you do.
If part of what you do involves you going out and picking up chicks, then you could not have a girlfriend while you were doing this.
Well, I also work pretty much all hours that I'm awake.
So I'm an incredibly boring person.
That's true, though.
That is something I have to fight.
I work all the time.
I don't have a real job, but I work all the time.
So I'd almost feel bad in a serious relationship and just being like the most boring, awful person ever.
But you, but well, would you be boring?
No, you might work a lot.
You might have to fight to make time, you know, for your girlfriend I would, but would you be boring?
And maybe you wouldn't want to do that?
Why would you be boring?
Well, I mean it's, it's not really interesting when all you're doing is sitting on your computer like doing a show all the time.
Um, you're interesting enough that people watch you?
Oh, absolutely.
But you know, unless the girlfriend wants to tune into the streams and become a viewer um, if she's just on the sidelines, it's not really that interesting.
I don't know.
Do you agree with that?
I would disagree with that because I work all the time and look, it's a little different.
I'm married, I have kids.
I have many reasons to.
Yeah, and the thing is conservatives.
Their solutions don't work.
People aren't getting like, i'm telling you guys, this will waste years of your life.
Um, they push solutions that are just not pragmatic anymore.
Get offline.
That's kind of stupid.
In 2025, most of the best opportunities i've had were online, and it's comical coming from Michael Moles, who lives online, like he's saying, i'm gonna go online but you should be real life.
And we're like uh okay, you know, carve out as much time as I can to not be on the road and to not be working, but I endeavor to cultivate other interests and other desires and other loves, beyond politics or whatever it is that I do.
Selling cigars and this online is his job, not his enjoyment.
How convenient, that's just always, how it's just.
Oh, I just have to use all the technology everyone else is using.
Ah ah yeah, it's feel-good solutions because it's for women, I wonder.
I wonder if that is missing from the looks maxing idea meaning, while you're looks maxing and doing the attendant wealth maxing and all the other stuff we've talked about, maybe a neglect of the spirit, spiritual maxing, but what about even like book maxing?
What about even cultivating loves for art or culture or things that that, yet again, are not exactly physical, which make you interesting and will make girls find you interesting?
No, I absolutely agree with you.
It's just like what are you going to dedicate your time to?
Um, and once again, I believe that once you start, you know you have to be like pedaled to the metal with your career.
Uh, especially these days with with how competitive like the job market is and everything.
So it's just about, you know, the return on time investment for anything that you do.
If you believe that you could get more value reading a book for two hours than uh, you know, maybe learning a skill, if that's going to help you just in terms of your mental well-being, then then fine.
You know everyone's got a different uh answer to what works for them, so i'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, i'm just saying what works for me.
Anecdotally, and it's kind of crazy how much I can't believe this kid's 19 and he thinks very like pragmatically, where Michael thinks idealistically.
So Michael's representing women obviously, and Clavicular is saying, well, what works?
What do you get a high roi on your time for?
Are you in college?
Uh no, I actually got expelled from college, all right.
Well then, Forget my question.
Why'd you get expelled from college?
For looks acting, essentially.
I got caught with steroids in my dorm room and I got kicked out.
I only lasted three weeks.
Wow.
That's fast.
I know other people who got booted from college.
Three weeks is fast.
Yeah, I'd say I probably set the record with that.
The reason I ask about college is people think today college is about just going and learning a scale and getting a job and making a lot of money.
That's really not what it's for.
What it's supposed to be for is actually not learning any skills.
It's for reading old books and thinking about abstract mathematics and science and cultivating an inner life and familiarizing yourself with the greatest that our civilization has to offer and thinking even about eternal things.
And then you can go either grad school or an apprenticeship, learn on the job, do something else.
But it's about the idea that there is more to life than looks and that this will make you a more interesting person.
It will make you a more interested person.
And that this is at least as important as how you look and maybe much more important.
Go to balanceofnature.com.
Tis the season.
Isn't it so crazy how he's saying you're just the moralists are the most annoying.
Tom to claim this offer today.
I think that the actual interpretation of what college is supposed to be, like you just mentioned, is amazing.
You know, people with higher intellect going to do these studies is a wonderful thing.
And that's how you have a great society.
But in the modern context, we're just sending everyone off to college universally.
Yeah.
And it doesn't really make sense to educate people with lesser intellect because they don't have the capability to necessarily put these skills into practice.
They're probably going to be working blue-collar jobs in a lot of cases.
It's just kind of like a thing that people do now without and they get $200,000 worth of debt as their reward.
Yeah.
So I think that college shouldn't be as universal as just like a thing that you do.
I totally agree with that.
Be like a very sought-after thing for the upper echelon people.
But part of, yes, I agree with that.
Part of what college endeavors to do can be replicated elsewhere, though, which is to make people, to make people well-rounded, to make people have multiple facets to their life.
And you mentioned earlier, you said, you know, I'm a little bit autistic.
A little touch of theutism.
And I think that's true for a lot of people these days, whether we're talking about real autism or just kind of habits of mind that singularly focus people, especially men, especially right-wing men, especially online men.
Wouldn't it be good to be a little well-rounded?
Do you ever, do you have that desire or no?
You say yes.
I've picked my lane.
I am the looks of it.
Again, he's trying to sarcastically put him down subtly and just say you're autistic.
You just can't get a girlfriend.
That's why you're doing it.
But I think Clavicular is doing really well.
I think he actually seemed, you know, he actually seems pretty on point.
I even think about it myself because Clavicular kind of says to just do things the fastest way you can.
I lost a bunch of weight naturally.
And sometimes I wish I just did Ozan pic because it took me so long.
It's like by the time I lost the weight, I was old.
You know what I mean?
Maxer, broadcaster, live streamer, and I'm just going to do that to the nth degree.
Everything else be damned.
I would say that I am pretty well-rounded.
It's just I have a very different idea on what's actually important to fit that definition.
So like a thing that I often speak out against is young people getting into politics.
So that would probably be something, I don't know if you agree or I totally agree with that.
You know, so that's an example.
Oh, well, you're not, you know, maybe people would contest that with, oh, you're not well-rounded.
You don't have like a good grasp on like geopolitics.
And I'm like, well, yeah, that's intentional because I find it to be extremely silly to advocate for young people who don't have a lot going for them.
They maybe have like a very low credit score or low income and they're worried about foreign wars or something.
Yeah, like that.
That's something that I've always been extremely outspoken on.
I agree.
Look, civic engagement is good, but these, you know, for a 14-year-old to be, you know, waking up in terror at night because of climate change or some nonsense, some war overseas, I think is totally disordered.
So I entirely agree with that.
But Because you got into this so young, because you're still so young, wouldn't you maybe couldn't you apply the same kind of reasoning to a young clavicular and say, hey, maybe don't get so obsessed with this one thing so young.
Maybe round it out a little bit.
Well, the problem is, like we discussed, it's an hour and ever thing with a lot of these growth pathways.
So you can either optimize them and ascend past what was possible genetically without the intervention of pharmaceuticals, or you can just cope and never have the success that you otherwise could have.
How long is the recovery for the jaw surgery?
It's going to be about three weeks of extreme swelling.
And I would say for 100% of the swelling to go down, it'd be about six months.
But after three weeks, you're pretty much looking how you will.
Just a gradual decline in that final push of swelling.
Have any of the doctors said, hey, man, you don't really need this surgery.
And this is kind of gratuitous.
And maybe you're a little wrong in your thinking here.
And maybe there's even a touch of body dysmorphia.
Have any of them suggested that?
No, not really.
So you just go in, you say, hey, I'm a big beefcake, Chad-looking guy, and I want to give you a bunch of money.
How much money does it cost?
$35,000.
$35,000.
Okay.
So you go in, you say, hey, I'm a 19-year-old guy.
I want to give you 35 grand to make me look even more giga, even more chatty.
And they just say, okay, thanks.
Yeah, swipe the MX here.
Well, because nobody, in a lot of cases, the double jaw surgeries that I'm talking about with like the cosmetic implants, that's an elective thing, right?
Sure, certainly double jaw exists as a way to fix, you know, horrible airways and sleep apnea.
But in my case, figurement from a car accident or something.
Yeah, right.
But a lot of the times it would be just like sleep apnea and breathing related issues would be the main cause for jaw surgery, but that's like severe recession and severe developmental issues.
But most people in the modern era actually do need jaw surgery because they have dental crowding.
They don't have enough space in their mouth to even accommodate for their teeth because of whether it be just poor development, poor breathing habits as a kid.
So I would say that the majority of people would actually need jaw surgery to fit within the ideals of looks.
Where does a 19-year-old get $35,000?
So after I got kicked out of college, it was kind of a rough time for me.
And what kept me going was how much I was working.
I was working 70, 80 hours a week at a restaurant trying to afford the jaw surgery because I felt like that was my way out in life.
That was how I was going to ascend and improve upon everything.
Ascend in looks.
Ascend in every regard.
In society.
Yeah.
Just ascend as a person.
So you want, when was this?
This was in 2020.
So last year.
This is pretty recent.
So you get booted out of college.
You're working.
What was the job?
I was working at a restaurant.
Working at a restaurant.
And you say, okay, the reason I'm working all the time is so that I can afford to improve my jaw with plastic surgery.
Because I figured the return on investment would be comically high, right?
So you improve that much in looks.
The opportunities that are going to be available to you will absolutely exceed the $35,000 investment.
Where do you get your certainty that that's the case?
Just what I've seen in society, a lot of anecdotes.
Like we look at a lot of the comeups for famous people.
They'll get like scouted for being like famous actors or magic.
Marx, like doing heinous, you know, like, for example, like Jordan Barrett got scouted to be a model, who's like one of the top Eclux Max.
People were scouted like, well, he's like stealing.
There's this other guy named Jeremy Meeks.
I don't know if you've heard of.
So he committed a felony and he had a mug shot where a lot of girls on Facebook liked him, thought he was good looking.
So they bailed him out and then he got a $1 million modeling contract.
So like that's what's available to you once you hit that top percentile of looks.
You could pretty much do anything and your life will be easy.
I don't know that I'm not saying I doubt the stories, but I don't know if you would use those stories as the model for life saying, you know what I got to do?
I got to be really hot and commit a felony.
And that's my pathway to well, just being that good looking, being like the top like 0.01 percentile of men in terms of looks, it's just a guarantee for success.
Like you can't lose.
There's really no losing.
So I'm not sure about this.
I've got a few more years than you should look at.
Absolutely.
There's no losing when you're that level of looks.
I know today's day and age.
I know.
People are saying he's going to look like Madonna.
I don't think a man obsessed with it.
We'll see.
We'll see.
Right.
But I don't know.
Men just do things better than women.
So if a man looks Max's, I just, I think they're going to do it better than women do because they're actually going to do research where women just believe whatever lies the doctors tell them.
Look, maybe this is generations past.
I know good looking people, guys and girls, who have not had much terrestrial success.
And I grant you, it's very important in show business, in broadcast professions, you know, acting, whatever.
But I also know a lot of very, very successful people in the kind of worldly way and in the spiritual way and sometimes in both who are not even close.
They are very looks moderated.
They are maybe even looks minimized.
And I know many examples of that.
And I can think of counterexamples of like hot people.
I mean, isn't that, this is kind of the joke or the meme is like the guy and the girl who were really hot, you know, in high school, they don't have a lot of success in their lives.
And, you know, the nerd is the one who goes off to school.
I got to be honest.
That's just not what I've seen.
I knew a girl that got a boob job when she was 18 and it looked very real.
And she loves it.
She's had it forever.
Got endless opportunities.
I know another woman that got a BBL.
You can't tell.
I couldn't tell.
Look, it's some people win, some people lose.
Yeah.
I mean, it's just plastic surgery.
There's winners and losers.
It's calculated risks.
Yeah, Jeremy Meeks, he was born hot.
I don't know.
You have to understand there's millions of dollars in this industry.
They do something right.
The billionaire.
I mean, that seems to be more the stereotype.
That's just not what we're seeing in today's day and age with social media.
I would say that that's probably how it was for a while.
But now when you're just able to open up Instagram or TikTok and put a picture of yourself when you're that good looking and get extreme success in brand deals and stuff like that.
And influencing.
Yeah.
So that's like a no-brainer, right?
It's guaranteed when you're good looking.
You don't even.
If you want to join the Audacity channel, we might be switching it soon.
So you can if you want.
It's theaudacitynetwork.com.
We just got to figure out this next month.
I'm going to figure out what I'm doing with like all of these websites and like e-commerce.
And it's on my process.
But yeah, if you want to, or if you want to donate to the divorce documentary, it's in the go links in the description.
Go find it.
That would be an interesting persona to do well on social media with good looks.
Surely you would admit there are plenty of good looking people on social media who don't get lucrative brand deals.
I would say that just like where I was, like working in a restaurant versus, you know, achieving success on social media, like I would have done better.
Absolutely.
So that would have been a return on investment that made sense.
Right.
No, but I'm still looking for that principle.
So you say looking good.
If you look really, really good and you have Instagram, that's a guarantee of professional success and lucrative success.
I'm just saying there are plenty of hot people on social media who aren't that successful.
Then, you know, that's also people who are low IQ as well.
But I would say that that's a very rare thing.
Is that even true?
I bet most hot people on social media don't get a lot of likes and certainly don't get branded.
Well, what are we talking about by hot?
Like good looking?
Like some people think that like Sidney Sweeney is extremely attractive.
I would say, I don't want to scandalize anybody, a married man.
I would say Sidney Sweeney is very attractive.
I would say that she's pretty malformed.
Her upper maxilla is extremely recessed, right?
She's got the...
I've been saying Sydney Sweeney.
You know, she's better looking than me, but she's just not that attractive facially.
She's got a really good body, but I totally agree with where he's going with this.
Really good body, beautiful hair.
I think hair helps a lot, but yeah.
Eyes of doom with no infraorbital support.
She's really not that much of a looker in her face.
I think that a lot of people with porn brains find her attractive because of her body.
I'm not a porn brain.
You're telling me that you're telling me if a guy finds Sidney Sweeney attractive, he's got to have a lot of things.
No, I think that she's above average in looks, but certainly not that like, you know.
So you said she's got a sunken suborbital, I forget the words that you said.
Yeah, she's got a recessed infraorbitals and a recessed upper maxilla.
You're telling me you go to a bar.
I'm just saying she's not the pinnacle of looks that I'm talking about to actually succeed on social media.
She's average to above average.
She's pretty successful.
Doesn't that more bode for my side of the argument?
No, no.
That looks is not the one-to-one guarantee of success, even by your low estimation of how she looks.
Well, that doesn't argue with my principle at all.
That if someone is actually the nine out of 10 looks level that we're talking about, the top percentile, that they'll be famous.
I'm just simply stating that she's not that top echelon.
So who's really beautiful?
Well, if we're talking about just like supermodels.
Someone that I wouldn't recognize anybody, but someone that the audience might recognize.
Like we'll talk about like supermodels like Giselle Bunchen and Taylor Hill, like the top like Victoria's.
Was she the one Giselle Bunchon was?
Yeah, Giselle Bunch and Young.
Like, come on.
I mean, come on.
Her facial harmony is so much better.
Like, this is just not even close in terms of, like, maybe not now.
For whatever reason, I don't think her, her face didn't age very well.
Like, I just think it went down a lot.
But you see what I'm saying?
Like, young, she was stunning.
Way better, way better.
Was she the one married to Tom Brady?
Correct.
Yes.
Right.
Do you think she's hotter than Sidney Sweeney?
Absolutely.
No.
That's ridiculous to suggest other.
No way.
They're different ages, I guess.
So maybe I'm grading on a curve.
Yeah.
I mean, maybe like her recently would probably not be as great, but in her prime, yeah, absolutely.
It blows out of the water.
Why?
Well, because of her facial harmony scores, right?
There's measurements that you could take of everyone's face to figure out exactly how attractive they are.
It's an objective thing.
The only thing that would make looks objective was like some people may prefer like more tan skin versus pale skin like we were talking about before.
But even then, I agree that beauty is an objective thing.
So I totally disagree with the modern conception that beauty is in the eye of the co-holder.
I think it's a co- and I do think I'm with St. Thomas Aquinas that part of what is beautiful is harmony, you know, is harmonizing, radiance and things like that.
Symmetry.
Yeah, so absolutely.
So that's simply what I'm stating is, you know, there might be a false idea of what's actually that good looking if, you know, Sidney Sweeney were to apply that principle, start posting on social media without acting, oh, where's my brand deals?
It's like, well, you're not who we're talking about.
Now, hold on.
Why did you conclude that people who think Sidney Sweeney is attractive use pornography?
What is it about porn that would lead you to that conclusion?
I think a lot of what they like about her is her breasts and probably just her body.
And that's generally like a very gooner porn consumer mentality.
But what about just her face?
You know what?
You say she doesn't have a pretty face?
I would say that she's probably right around average, slightly above.
Wow, okay.
Yeah, I wouldn't agree with that.
But I think if you put her head onto an average chick's body, she would be pretty much invisible outside of like, you know, a third world country.
Now, okay, I'm very curious about the pornification of it all, because this ties into what you've been talking about from the beginning, which is your whole Lux Maxim journey has been online.
It's been revolving around every step of the way.
And what is the definitive, I don't know, content of the internet?
It's just porn from the earliest days.
That's that's just the new look that you're seeing pushed by, I don't know, globalism or whatever is like the thick thing where you're seeing like all these girls who have like you know a lot more body fat, but their faces might be chubbier because you know they're gonna have more fat now in their you know in their breasts.
So that's kind of just like a new thing that's being pushed.
And you're in in you're saying fat girls are being pushed in pornography.
No, not necessarily fat, just like you know, higher body fat.
Whereas, you know, you would see in like the 90s and the early 2000s, like with modeling, it was like a very skinny look.
The face was very angular.
And that I would say that porn probably did the most damage to what's pushed.
There was a lot of porn in the 90s.
I don't know.
You weren't around then, but I was around that.
But it wasn't accessible by every 12-year-old with an iPad.
Yeah.
Well, it wasn't iPads.
It was computers.
But I mean, internet porn, look, they were.
It's much worse now.
It's a lot worse because the internet's festive, right?
There were pieces of legislation to combat this in the 90s.
It was the Communications Decency Act and the Child Online Protection Act because there was this flood of porn all over the internet.
It really started in the 90s.
And they both got shot down by judges, unfortunately.
The reason the porn thing is interesting to me on this topic is it's so online.
All of this is so profoundly online.
And one of the evils of pornography is it reduces humanity nearly to the physical.
I'm very anti-porn myself.
Yeah.
I think it ruins your dopamine system.
It's going to give you a very bad perception of how women are, you know, in the actual real life because a lot of it's just acting.
It's all fake.
All of fantasy.
Yeah.
So that has done a lot of damage for people, especially with the recent stuff like OnlyFans and just how widespread it is, you know, stuff being all over Twitter.
It's really not good.
And I'm simply saying that just like the look of women has been vastly altered.
Yeah, I certainly agree, or I strongly suspect.
Well, why not?
I haven't read all the studies, but I strongly suspect that porn so screws up people's brains that it changes their desires and what they consider attractive.
I totally agree with that.
Yeah.
My point, I guess, is one of the evils of pornography is it reduces people who are these integral human beings with soul and body.
It reduces them to the physical.
So it's just meatbags bumping uglies on a screen.
It's even one level abstracted.
But isn't that a commonality with looks maxing, which is to reduce the human person down to the level of the physical, the physical being the most important?
Yeah.
So again, it's just, it's Michael Knowles finger wagging, right?
It's you're net, you're a bad person, I'm a good person, and we are tired.
We're exhausted.
We get it.
You are amazing.
We're not amazing.
I would say that, yeah, it's not far from the truth, you know, but it's just what needs to be done in society.
You need to improve upon this metric.
You know, we could do you, though?
You do.
I don't feel like I do.
I mean, listen, in my mind, you can achieve success in other regards.
Well, and it's completely preposterous for Michael Knowles to criticize looks maxing when he is absolutely looks maxed in media.
I've been to the Daily Wire.
You guys have a giant costume and makeup room.
Shut the fuck up.
Like, do you know, do you know how I feel?
I mean, I looks max some days, right?
I got bangs recently, but I'm not like, I'm a lazy looks maxer, I guess.
But I can't even dye my head, whatever, you know.
But I've seen, like, I'm struggle streaming here.
You guys looks max your sets.
They build a new set every time.
So not only, you guys have perfect lighting, you have a tailored suit custom-made for you.
And you're gonna, you're gonna lecture us about looks maxing.
Shut the fuck up.
Shut up.
You know what I mean?
To such a.
Other regards.
Are you suggesting I'm not looks maxed?
No, I would say that, you know, obviously anyone who does media is going to be reasonably good looking, right?
So I'll take it.
Yeah, so no, you've achieved this success to such a high level that maybe you can make up for not fully looks maxing or not taking like the double jaw surgery route.
Like, you know, you're a huge, you know, host of a massive show, you know, so that status might be able to carry you rather than, you know, having to do.
Okay, but let's say that I weren't.
I appreciate all the compliments.
And it's good.
And I like, this is nice.
I'll take.
I'll take it.
I'll take a broad, you know, I have it looks minimized at least.
But let's say that all that wasn't true.
And let's say that I were a guy and I were, I don't know, even more looks minimized.
And I was fashion minimized and I didn't have a show and I didn't check certain status markers.
And let's say I were just a guy married to a nice gal and maybe she wasn't even that good looking.
Maybe let's say we had a nice family and we had some kids and we were living in a house.
It's fine, but not that nice.
And, you know, I made some money, but not a ton.
And we had like a car that was okay.
And we went out to dinner every so often.
And maybe we got to go to the beach once a year.
And by all of the metrics that we're talking about, you know, I wasn't mad.
Respect for not going to that Ozempic route.
All plastic surgery is a slap to Christ.
He made us this none of us the same for a reason.
We do need to embrace the beauty in that.
Happy New Year.
I don't really agree, to be honest.
I don't really agree with that.
Like, if God gave you crooked teeth, you can't fix them.
I wish I did Ozempic, but I'm too close to my goal.
I'm too close.
At this point, I might like.
Do you guys really think I'm all natural?
Really?
I'm 100% natural.
Truly.
This is how I know you guys.
Like, come on.
No, I haven't done Ozempic, but I'm just saying, like, I'm a girl in media.
i'm a woman in media really and i've done nothing Nothing?
Truly?
Nothing.
Okay.
Okay, sure.
You know, it's like, now look, I haven't done much.
But like, guys, there's no woman in conservative media that's 100% natural.
Can we just, can we just, like, bruh.
You think I'm going to tell you?
I'm not that stupid.
Sorry.
I'm not that.
I'm not going to go.
Oh, so it can be clipped and used against me for the rest of my life.
Yeah, no.
With Pearl, you know what your kids are going to look like.
Will you?
Really, really, truly.
Now they're all guessing.
And they're guessing wrong.
They're guessing wrong, but I thought you guys could tell.
You think I got lip filler?
If I got lip filler, I would have thicker lips than this.
No, no.
No.
look it it's very little it's not much See, this is the biggest.
Guys will say, well, I don't like it.
I dated a girl and she had this done and I hated it.
And I'm like, well, but you dated her.
Do you see what I'm saying?
I'm like, why didn't you go pick the natural one?
You know what I mean?
That's like when you say, when women say, we like nice guys.
Then you're like, well, who was your last boyfriend?
You're like, well.
X doubt at all.
But mightn't it very likely be the case that I would be happier, more flourishing than the richer, better looking, more professionally successful guy?
Are you saying no?
That's a fairy tale.
Well, yeah, I'd say that's a really nice idea.
And like in theory, be potentially, but that's just not what we're seeing.
And today.
I've seen it.
I'm not going to call anybody out, but I've seen it.
Yeah.
I mean, maybe you've seen it once or twice.
I'm sure most people watching have, but that's just not what we're seeing on average across the country, right?
I'm saying that, yes, I agree with that.
On average across the country, I bet that's true.
However, the whole country isn't made equal.
And so, for instance, if I go to an average bar in Brooklyn, I'm going to get a different sliver of society than if I go to a traditional Latin Mass in Wisconsin.
I actually don't see much of a difference.
I think women are women, people are people.
I grew up in Catholic school.
You're not going to, it's not that different anywhere.
And I guess my point is, it's kind of even silly to create an average of those things because they're such radically different types of communities.
And everything that I see is that.
And that's what they want to sell you, that these communities are special and different.
They're not.
They're the same.
People who are, especially who are religiously active, but who are civically engaged, who are charitable, who are not thinking about themselves all the time, or thinking about others and their countrymen, those people tend to be happier.
I think they're flourishing on way more levels of success at a higher level than the people who live in this very modern, secular, largely online kind of world.
And so I would just say, if you really wanted to max out your potential, isn't there an argument to say, actually, put down the testosterone, put down the camera, put down the internet, go move to some weirdo parish in the middle of nowhere and find some nice.
I've seen like not good looking guys marry like definitely hotter girls and have like a nice family and have a kind of life that isn't even considered on the table in our modern culture.
I, you know, I'm sure that we probably agree on most of this stuff, like what's ideal, like, you know, being super in touch with your faith.
But at the end of the day, all the stuff that you're talking about is just idealism.
It's not realistic.
I'm telling you, I've seen people do it.
Yeah.
I regularly see people do it because I travel a lot.
I don't, I wouldn't suggest that that's I don't see people do it in Brooklyn.
I don't see, I grant you in a lot of the I have seen men date out of their league with their college sweetheart.
Um, but she usually divorces them later.
So country, you don't see it, but there are, there are places where it happens.
There are communities where it happens.
So don't we have to consider that?
But from a sociological lens, just we're looking at an entire society and the direction we're moving.
So, you know, if that's still the case now, which you've probably seen more than me, you've got a few more years on me.
But that's certainly the direction society's headed is towards what I'm talking about.
I think you would agree with me there.
I would.
I don't think that's a good thing.
But in that case, I would say, why would you swim with the stream?
Yeah.
Once you made this swim again.
Yeah.
So Michael Knowles is basically sacrificing you for his world.
Sorry.
He wants young men to sacrifice themselves for the world that he wants.
He wants young men to get married, do the hard jobs, live like a rural life style, even though it doesn't benefit the young men.
It benefits him and what he wants.
It's no different than the elite sending men off to war, what Michael Knowles pushes.
Marrying high school sweethearts isn't on the table anymore, Michael.
10 years ago, maybe.
20 years ago, maybe.
Today, no.
Against the stream or go jump into a different stream.
No, because that's not a realistic outcome, right?
Is it not?
So to what, take away all the liberties that we've granted women to sort of, you know, cause a lot of detriment to society?
To oppose, to use this example, like to oppose feminism.
I'm not saying we're going to take away the right to vote.
I'm saying why?
Well, you know, we got to repeal a few more amendments before we get to the 19th.
But look, interesting conversation for another time.
Let's say, forgetting about that, let's just say other liberties that women are supposedly have.
The liberty to promiscuity because of hormonal birth control.
I would discourage that.
I think it's good to discourage that.
You probably can't pass a law because of a couple of Supreme Court cases, but I would strongly discourage that.
The liberty to go just like randomly date a bunch of dudes in some city.
I would strongly discourage that.
The liberty to put off getting married and having kids so that you can go do right, but you're not going to, you might discourage it, but again, it's kicking the ladder out from under you because the young women are going to get the most successful.
Like this idea that you like, if you go to a big city, you can't meet the love of your life is complete bullshit.
People do it all the time.
I mean, both of my brothers met their wives in a big city.
You know, so you're kind of kicking out the ladder from under you because the way people date now is they date in big cities, they find their husband or their wife and they move out.
And you're saying, do we do it in a way that doesn't work anymore?
Spreadsheets at the widget factory?
I would strongly discourage that.
So to answer your question, I guess the answer is yes, I would discourage a lot of what passes for modern liberty.
Oh, no, absolutely.
Like, I don't think that the modern world is one that I like to live in at all.
But I'm simply stating that you might as well adapt to the times instead of just like, you know, doing all these copes like political activism when this is just the way that the world is going to go and the way that it's going to continue to go.
People have been trying to, you know, turn the tides since the sexual revolution started to happen in the 70s.
And look where that's got us, right?
So if- Hold on, hold on.
Everything you've been saying is all this like very manly take control of your destiny.
He's about to cook, Michael.
Oh, this was a beautiful part.
I can't, I have a, oh, this is about to be cook.
Okay.
Even so much so.
Yeah, so why can't we do it on a political level?
That sounds kind of, excuse the phrase gay to me, to say like, oh, there's nothing we can do.
Like the elites just control us.
We can't do anything.
That's a little bit silly to compare like starting a massive political movement rather than like individual action.
That's a horrible comparison.
Why is that?
Politics is just a bunch of people working together.
Because there's a lot of bad actors that don't want to see that occur.
So it's not like you're just fighting against like nothing.
You're fighting against people who deliberately want society to go.
There are a lot of people who don't want individuals to flourish either.
Right.
So I mean.
How do you divorce the two?
My view, Michael.
I don't have a liberal view of human beings.
I don't think that we're just like individuals in isolation.
I think.
Michael's an actor who's never been in charge of anything.
And so the way they think is very unpragmatic.
Where if someone's like trying to solve their problems, Michael's idealist, where clavicular is a realist.
Now, you might disagree the way he goes about solving his problem, but it's more pragmatic than anything Michael's going to tell you.
Like Michael, you'll notice his advice is so bad.
It's like general.
Don't sleep around.
Don't do this.
Well, what do I do?
What do I do?
So they'll waste your life, these traditional conservatives.
Political creature.
We're social animals.
We live together.
We work together.
We are inclined naturally to live in an ordered society.
And so I think doing politics is the most basic, one of the most basic human impulses.
And so therefore, it's crazy to me to hear, well, you should go improve yourself, but don't try to improve your community.
Yeah, but because it's a cope.
Well, one, what community?
I don't know anyone.
I haven't known anyone I live next to for years.
Even when I was a kid, I barely did.
So it's not going to happen, right?
Where of does it not?
I mean, look, look at the conservative movement over the years.
It's gone to absolute, you know, so conservatives.
There have been wins and there have been losses.
I'll give you an example of the sexual revolution.
In 1973, now he's going to gaslight and they're going to, they're going to, he's going to defend the conservative movement's reputation.
And he has to do this because he's making money off of it.
He's selling hope.
And clavicular is saying, you guys are doing a terrible job.
And Michael is going to try to like, you know.
Stupid Supreme Court decision, Roe v. Wade, that said you could kill babies.
It was in the Constitution.
And everyone said, you're never going to overturn that.
It's impossible to overturn it.
It's a cope if you think you're an overturner.
You guys are wasting your time.
You're wasting your breath.
Took 50 years.
And guess what happened?
We overturned it.
Okay.
Now it's a state-to-state thing, right?
So abortion is still very much.
Yeah.
So he's going to try to sell these abortion overturnings as like some sort of win.
And it's like, yeah, but people like it's not hard for women to get abortions.
If one in three women have had it, I mean, that's just not a win.
It's just not.
You could try to slice and dice the numbers however you want.
Like, and he's going to do this again with the immigration stuff.
And he's going to say, oh, well, we've deported this many illegals.
And it's like, well, Michael, when I go to the supermarket, I see Pajites everywhere.
So it's like, you can try to sell me that you won, but it's not what I'm seeing.
I'm going to make this full screen.
I don't know my dogs.
On the table.
Yeah, but that's moving the goalpost.
Big win.
You know what I mean?
It's a huge win to say that there's a federal constitutional right to kill babies.
And then everyone says you're never going to overturn that.
Your guys are idealistic and ridiculous.
And then we do it.
We actually do overturn it.
And everyone says, well, never mind.
That wasn't that important anyway.
No, now you got to find another battle.
I agree with that.
But I don't know.
I noticed the libs don't seem to think that political activism is useless.
They seem to think it's very useful and they've achieved a lot because of it.
Well, I'm personally an accelerationist.
So I'd like to see where things are going to go because I could only assume that the dating market is going to get worse and worse.
And that's going to probably Cause people to harbor some sort of resentment and it's going to have a lot of like intergender issues.
Again, I hope this doesn't happen, but that's just kind of what I speculate will occur.
Hold on.
Because when you say you're an accelerationist, I find that very interesting.
Accelerationism meaning, look, we got all these social problems and things are getting even worse.
And so, you know what?
Let's just immatize the escaton.
Let's bring it up to the end, let it all fall apart, and then we can finally rebuild something good.
Yeah.
So you say I'm accelerationist on one hand, but you say I don't want that to happen on the other.
That's a contradiction.
Yeah, I mean, I'm talking about the resentment.
I'm not talking about.
But that's part of the acceleration is like we all go to war with each other and everything.
Well, just because I want that to happen doesn't mean I really have a lot of hope that the two genders have a lot of conflict, but I hope that we can accelerate to the point where we could start to rebuild the society in the dating market because it's only going to slip further and further.
I think the conservative movement, to a large degree, is a complete joke.
And I would say that for a lot of long time, I agree with that.
I would say that now it's probably stronger than it was a few years ago, but largely a joke.
You should have seen it before Trump.
Yeah.
You should have seen it before Trump.
And Michael Knowles is going to cope because he's been taking your money for a decade or however long he's been doing this.
So he's going to sell, oh, we've gotten a lot done when they've literally gotten nothing done.
Nothing.
You know, the stuff that I'm talking about really doesn't have, I would say it's probably more of a right-wing thing in theory, but there's really no political party attached to it.
And if it is the right that's supposed to be, you know, protecting us from slipping into this degeneracy that we're talking about.
We're in the degeneracy.
There's no protecting us from slipping.
We've been in the degeneracy for a long time.
And if that's the right job, I don't really have a lot of hope.
That's why I'm someone who's saying, yeah, individualism is good.
Adapt to the society that we live in because that's the highest chance of success.
Adapt to the society.
But hold on, you're saying the society is getting more degenerate.
Adapt to the society, but also don't be degenerate.
You see the conflict between those things.
Who's saying, don't be to be degenerate?
I'm just saying it's ideal.
You know, what you're talking about about degeneracy and like, you know, the hypergamy stuff, it's not ideal.
I thought he had such a good point there.
He said, if it was the right's job to win the war, then I don't have a lot of hope.
And so you might say it's blackpill.
And that's what they say to me, like, Pearl, where is your hope?
And I'm like, look, I just see where this is going.
So.
I'm saying that's just how it is.
Oh, interesting.
Okay.
I misunderstood your point.
So you're saying, look, the conservative movement has had all these failures.
Totally agree.
And we've fallen into this degenerate society and that sucks.
Totally.
But that's just how it is.
But then your answer is: so, you know, if you can't beat them, join him, basically.
Essentially, yeah.
It's kind of doomer.
Well, is it?
I mean, like, really.
And Michael joined him, right?
Michael's online.
Michael looks maxed.
Michael moved to a big city.
Michael slept around before he got back together with his wife.
He did all the things that he's criticizing him for.
So, you know.
It's like such a cope to be like, you know, going to all these political action events as like your average guy.
Like maybe you have this perspective because you've got your own show and you've got a lot more More influence over the way that the country goes than just your average guy.
But if you're just like one of the average viewers who've got no voice, who could risk potentially losing their job for saying the wrong thing in politics, I'm saying that they shouldn't really be concerning themselves with trying to change the tide of society.
Well, look, people have a voice in as much as they vote, they have more of a voice than ever because of social media and new media.
So they get banned and fired from their job.
Yeah, there was a lot of that.
And then we stopped a lot of that.
I mean, Elon helped stop that.
We bought Twitter.
That still happens.
But it happens to some degree.
It's gotten a lot better.
And I guess my point is: if this individualism and political quietism from the right is what led us into this mess in the first place, because it emboldened and empowered the left to screw up the whole society from dating elsewhere, then wouldn't doing more of the same only make things worse?
Well, was it really individualism that caused the huge decline in the right?
I'm just talking about from like a self-improvement perspective and just overall like context of how you should live your life as a man.
And, you know, maybe you're right about that, but I just don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to just advocate for your average person to only concern themselves with their own.
To me, that's the big cope.
I agree with many of the observations.
And it's really crazy because, Michael, everything you do, Ben, it's just like people will always make decisions that benefit themselves and criticize other people for doing the same.
But it's like an elitist mentality you're making about the society.
But the big cope, you heard this with like the libs when they were trying to push the trans stuff and they were upset that some of us were pushing against it.
And they said, how does this affect you?
You know, you're walking out.
It's basically your society is Sodom and Gomorrah.
And they say, well, how does it affect you if I decide I want to like castrate little kids into school and redefine marriage and slaughter babies and sacrifice them to Molagan?
How does that affect you?
You just mind your own business.
And I think, how about I don't mind my own business?
How about, actually, how about my business is my community and I have a right to enforce standards and norms that are good and traditional and conducive to flourishing.
And how about you mind your own business?
But the problem is, you see what you just did there is you spiked your cortisol thinking about transgenders.
Will that max anything on me?
No, that's a very catabolic hormone.
So if you're advocating for people to go around and concern themselves with these issues or go to school, like board conferences and be outspoken about this, that's just largely going to be unproductive.
No, and that's what I've kind of lived it.
Like I make the content, right?
But you see how talking about this stuff is a waste of time.
And all the most intelligent men don't really waste that.
Like, I tell you guys a story all the time how my dad told me to stop being pro-life.
And it's not because my dad doesn't, like, my dad's one of the most moral men I've ever met in my life at probably number one draft pick.
But he just said it's a waste of time.
And that's how like really intelligent men don't want to debate these issues because they have better shit to do.
Got me on the crooked teeth point.
I understand how 100% natural is unrealistic.
Do you agree?
Christ made us all different.
Morals and values are a lot more attractive as I age.
No, I really look, I don't really see a problem with people look smaxing.
Maybe it's because I'm getting older and it's cope.
I don't know.
But I don't really have a problem with it.
But in all honesty, I think people have a right to their own hell.
So if you want to make your life hell, you have a right to do that.
And, you know, it might seem like a doomer mentality or like, you know, you're just going to let society go to shit's like on an individual level, it's just, it's not going to be productive.
But on a political, right?
Well, look, it's been productive in as much as at least the trans thing.
There's so many other problems.
At least the trans things, though, we've kind of won on that.
Well, the way that I see trainees is like, that's one more person to mug once they brutally butcher themselves.
Well, and you haven't really won because, again, Michael can say that he's won, but if I go downtown, like if I went, I went to downtown Chicago with Bryson Gray and I saw some trannies walking around.
It's like I see them more now.
Now, you might say that maybe they're going to, I don't know, maybe you could put a study in front of my face, but when I go out, I see them more.
So transitioning, you know?
But is it, you know, I see that.
Like, go descend yourself.
Like, that's fine with me because you're ascending yourself.
Yeah, I'm going to ascend and this person is going to be a comical botch job, you know?
So like, that just seems like very logical to me.
Like, yeah, go be a tranny.
Like, now I'm moggy you to death.
Now, isn't, yes, I see it.
Isn't that a bit cruel to like, for instance, my view of the tranny?
People think I want to commit a genocide on the trannies.
In fact, media outlets have written that, which is totally ridiculous.
My opposition to the transgender ideology is that I think it's false.
It's bad for everyone involved.
And at a very real level, I love trannies.
That's the part that's going to get clicked.
But I love the trannies in the sense that they're my countrymen.
They're fellow human beings.
They're children of God.
I don't want them to do things that are bad for them.
I don't want to spike the football or spike my cortisol and just mog all over them.
I want them to live lives that are good and flourishing.
And so I, and I also don't want them to scandalize whole generations of kids into thinking they can be the opposite sex and screw up my society further.
So there's a little bit of a selfish aspect, but there's a common good view, and there's even charity for the other person.
Don't we have to have charity for these other people, even if they're...
And now he's going to say you need to be more moral.
It's like, you know, I think of my father and he's the most moral man I've ever met in my life, much more moral than some stupid podcast host.
And my dad's not religious, but he works 80 hours a week and he did my whole life.
Do you think he had a ton of time for other people?
No.
When he got older, he's very charitable.
But you know, he still was, but it's like, it's elitists lecturing normal Americans to be better.
It's, you know, screw you.
We talk for a living.
You don't really have the right to tell anyone anything.
Trannies?
No, not necessarily.
Think about all the time that you've spent throughout your entire life talking about trannies.
Yeah, if you guys want to donate to the divorce documentary, feel free.
Feel free.
Yeah.
So if you want, I'm trying to raise $200,000 for it.
Nice.
What if you were to dedicate all that time to bone smashing?
You know, imagine where you could have been.
Is that a euphemism?
No, bone smashing.
What is bone smashing?
It sounds like what the trannies do.
No, it's where you induce microfractures.
And this principle follows Wolf's Law that a bone is going to grow back stronger after you do these localized micro-traumas.
So you're going to lay in your bed to brace your head for CTE and you're going to bone smash.
You're going to lay in your bed and brace your head for it.
CTE is, isn't that like brain damage?
Well, no, so that's why you lay in your, and that's going to grow your facial bones.
You smash, like you punch yourself in the face?
Yeah.
If I punch myself in the face, I'm going to get like a nice mute up jaw.
Yeah, according to Wolf's Law, right?
Do you punch yourself in the face?
Yes.
How hard?
Like reasonably.
Just your fist.
Yeah.
I used to use a hammer, but my parents would go into my bathroom and take it away.
Where am I supposed to punch?
Like if I'm going to, so like there?
How does one, I want to do it.
So that was.
You would hit yourself in the head with a hammer.
Yeah, I know.
It sounds a little silly.
Like people are going to think I'm trolling, but.
All right.
I'm going to cut.
We're at an hour and a half.
I did like a bunch of reactions before this.
But I'll probably do the rest of this in a few days.
So I don't know if I'm going to live stream the next few days, but I probably will after New Year's.