Episode 95. Diary of A Serial Killer: Joseph Edward Duncan III
Josephs Diary: https://5nconfessions.blogspot.com/2018/05/the-groenes.htmlJosephs Diary: https://5nconfessions.blogspot.com/2018/05/the-groenes.htmlCONTACT US: Email: paranaughtica@gmail.com Twitter: @paranaughtica Facebook: The Paranaughtica PodcastContact Cricket: Website: www.theindividuale.com Twitter: @IndividualethePATREON SUPPORT: patreon.com/TheParanaughticaPodcastSOUNDCLOUD(music): https://on.soundcloud.com/6W3TT9cPBiHyPxeM9Josephs Diary:https://5nconfessions.blogspot.com/2018/05/the-groenes.htmlこんにちは.........Yia Yia........Or simply, “Hello”, in English.Today, we are talking about Joseph Edward Duncan III, who was an American serial killer and child molester who was on death row in federal prison following the 2005 kidnappings and murders of members of the Groene family of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.He was also serving 11 consecutive sentences of life without parole for the 1997 murder of Anthony Martinez of Beaumont, California. Additionally, Duncan confessed to, but was not charged with, the 1996 double-murder of Sammiejo White and Carmen Cubias, in Seattle, Washington.What we are going to focus most on is Joseph’s diary that he kept both out of prison and in prison once he was arrested, again. It offers a deep look into his psyche and gives us a glimpse of the way a narcissist thinks and feels.This episode is detailed and gory. It’s not for the faint of heart. The first half will be a background into Joseph, who he was and the crimes he was arrested for.The second half is us reading directly from the diary entry that he wrote in regard to the Groene family massacre and the subsequent weeks leading up to his eventual arrest inside of a Denny’s restaurant in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho.‘IF’ you would like to listen to the second half of this episode, please, ...and we encourage you to, .....head-on over to our Patreon page where you can do that as well as listen to other bonus content and extra stuff.patreon.com/TheParanaughticaPodcast ***If you’d like to help out with a donation and you’re currently listening on Spotify, you can simply scroll down on my page and you’ll see a button to help me out with either a one-time donation or you can set up a monthly recurring donation. You can also go to the Facebook page where I have a link to Ko-Fi and Pay-Pal if you'd like to help out the show. I would greatly appreciate it! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
Because, like, because Cricket, look, man, I'm going to tell you something.
I've got an addiction.
I've got an addiction, man.
So I commend Bill Wilson and Bob Smith's work at helping people with addictions.
My addiction is freaking coffee, bro.
Oh, yeah, me too.
I drink way too much coffee.
And it's got a very minimal effect, too.
Oh, my God.
Very minimal.
It's just a placebo at this point.
It doesn't even necessarily taste good anymore.
It's just there all the time.
I don't know.
I say it's delicious, but I think about it.
It's really not that delicious.
But, man, it really gets my bowels moving.
After that first cup, I'm ready to go.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, I mean, it doesn't have no effect, but the tolerance level I have is through the ceiling.
Reminds me of the people I used to check in and out in the middle of the night on the railroad.
Like, they used to brag about how they could fall asleep holding a cup of coffee.
So they drank, like, a dozen cups in a shift.
Just a crazy amount.
That's so much.
Can't sleep.
Yeah. Absolutely cannot sleep.
Yeah, because what coffee does is it kind of blocks whatever chemical in your brain that makes you tired.
It kind of blocks that, and so you don't become tired.
But for me, I'm still tired all the time.
Yeah. Regardless, coffee or not.
I'm fucking tired constantly, and I don't sleep.
I cannot sleep.
It's probably the coffee.
Oh, yeah.
At this point, I have no problem sleeping.
I just get exhausted enough, and then all I can do is sleep.
I'll tell you this, though.
Last night, oh man, I slept hard.
In little increments, though.
I'd sleep hard for two hours and wake up, and then fall back asleep.
Solid two hours and wake up.
But man, I actually had some dreams.
I can't remember them, but I definitely dreamt.
That was nice.
Good reprieve.
Oh, for sure.
About the only new thing that's happened to me is...
I don't know, a new Nightcore mix finally came out.
How's that?
Oh, like, there's this YouTube channel, Club Lion X, doing like a 10-year anthology.
Put out years one and two already.
For all their music, I'm like, holy crap, 10 years of putting music out, that's crazy.
I try to put like a song out a month.
I don't know, I've got like 20 or 30 songs or something.
I came to the realization that I don't dislike any particular sort of music.
I just need it sped up by 33% and upshifted in pitch.
And I'm good to go.
Alright, so you like that upbeat EDM or something?
All the music I used to tease my mom for listening to.
You put a sick beat behind it and speed it up a little bit, I will totally listen to the nightcore of it.
I like to make...
Like lo-fi beats.
It's like slower beats between like 50 and 100 beats per minute.
It's like mellow, chill music.
Because I sent you that one song.
What did you think of that song I made?
One of my latest ones.
Oh, very emotional.
I was sad at the time.
I didn't want to listen to it for that reason.
I was like, this is making me more sad.
Because it's touching.
It's lo-fi.
It's great music.
So I didn't say anything at the time because I was like, it made me more sad.
So, you know, it was an emotional song.
So it definitely worked.
If I was chilling, it would be a good song to listen to.
But I was having a very bad day.
I was going to say, you're making my music sound super depressing.
It's not depressing.
It's beautiful music.
And if you guys want to listen to it, head over to SoundCloud.
Yeah, but I'm not a rapper, alright?
I'm not a rapper.
I just make beats under the name Paranautic.
I'll probably link it in.
I don't say depressing.
I say effective.
Effective? Well, alright.
It's effective and emotional.
I mean, if something connects with you emotionally, then...
Alright, good.
As long as it's not just depressing.
Well, no.
Just makes me want to cut my wrists.
Go hang myself.
Nah, I was basically like, I could listen to this when I'm not feeling sad already, though.
Alright, good.
And that was just one song I sent you, dude.
Check out the other ones.
You might like a few of them.
Because they're not all slow like that.
I have a few fast ones in there.
I live at 160 beats per minute.
Yeah. So what are we doing today?
What do we got going on for the show today?
Are we covering a serial killer?
We got ourselves a psycho, yes.
We got ourselves a psycho.
Well, hello to our beloved listeners, and believe us when we tell you that we have a telephone-gripping tale for all of you today.
You might be ready to have to call 911 because of someone outside lurking around, so I advise you to lock your doors, shutter your windows, turn on all your lights.
Inside and outside, if you have them.
And keep an eye on all of your home surveillance feeds because there's something out there lingering around in those bushes, naked, watching you.
Nah, that's got to be just Steve.
He just goes around every Sunday collecting bottles and cans.
He's got to collect them all and turn them in for that nickel apiece.
Oh, yeah.
That's not what they're going for these days.
I don't know.
I don't know if it's one of the states.
There's actually states where you can turn them in for a nickel apiece, and that's how they get them to recycle them.
I think that's California and New York, mostly.
I know Oregon does it, too.
Probably the states with the most homeless have that on their cans.
And yeah, Steve, dude, he is a natural entrepreneur.
True savant, actually.
I just don't understand why he has to go around doing that naked.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, well, you know, he walks by the guy in the bushes filming.
There's also a filmer out there.
Some guy just walks, like, filming Steve as he collects bottles and cans.
Like a reality TV show.
It's awesome.
I mean, I feel like these days Steve would totally have his own live stream.
He should.
If he doesn't, he needs one.
Son of a bitch.
So, uh, have you been a fan of the show?
And we hope you have been.
Then you know that we like to cover a pretty eclectic mix of stories.
And we actually have, you know, delved pelvis deep in some of the most gritty muck and mire mine own eyes has seen.
And every journey has been just that.
A journey.
But today's episode is a journey beyond a journey.
Isn't that right, Cricket?
Yeah, it's an adventure.
You get to look inside the head of, well, yet.
Another serial killer.
Well, technically, the last one we covered wasn't a serial killer, but in general, there's always going to be some pretty dark things when you look into somebody like this.
In particular, somebody like this who, well, does it over a period of time.
Right. So in the first half or so of the episode, we're going to go over who Joseph Edward Duncan was.
And for the second half or so, we'll be reading a particular diary entry of his.
And yes, he kept a diary.
It was decked out in flashy green sequins, neon rainbow stickers, and gay unicorns.
It was not a man's journal, is what I'm trying to say here.
The diary entry is his personal admission to an extraordinarily heinous crime.
Well, many, actually.
That, well, this particular one shocked the nation in 2005 and left the community of Coeur d'Alene, Idaho in sheer terror and disgust.
For many of you, the name Joseph Edward Duncan III is a familiar one, and one that perhaps elicits memories of utter sadness and, of course, compassion for the surviving victim, whose mother, brother, and mother's boyfriend were all brutally murdered just so Joseph Duncan could kidnap.
The two youngest children for his sadistic sexual pleasure, Shasta and Dylan Groney.
But that's not the only reason for his twisted attack, right?
I mean, he's got to have some kind of other demented ulterior motive here.
In fact, you're right.
And we'll get into that in a moment.
But before we head off in that direction, we should give a little background into who this Joseph Edward Duncan III was.
Joseph Edward Duncan III was born on February 25, 1963, in Fort Liberty, formerly Fort Bragg, in North Carolina, to parents Lillian May and Joseph Edward Duncan Jr.
He was the fourth of five children, having three older sisters and one younger brother.
His father was serving in the United States Army, and as is the usual story, the family moved around a lot.
At least once every year or two for the first 12 years of, quote, younger Joseph Duncan III's life.
And from here on out, we're going to refer to Joseph as Joey, or Little Joey, or some other variations such as Josephina out of respect to the victims.
And while it isn't necessarily true for every child of military parents who relocate as often as most birds migrate, Moving around often makes it extremely difficult for children to make friends and foster solid relationships, which is seen as a critical stepping stone in leading a healthy life in a society where communication and participation is generally the proverbial key to some,
some degree of minute success.
According to an article titled, Revolving Doors, the Impact of Multiple School Transitions on Military Children, There are 1.2 million school-aged children with military parents in the United States, and approximately 90% attend public schools.
On average, military children move and change schools six to nine times from the start of kindergarten to high school graduation.
This is roughly three times as often as regular civilian children.
Yeah, in my experience, having talked to a few, that sounds about right.
That's so nuts.
You move around a lot, and you don't tend to actually get...
To be knowing your friends too well, it's almost like you're kind of discouraged from it because in the back of your mind, you always got to know that I could be moving to schools again next year or even six months from now.
Exactly, dude.
I'm so glad my dad got out of the military when he did because I didn't have to experience any of that.
Makes it a lot harder to connect with friends and stuff when you know you could leave them at any time.
So it's like, do I want to make this friendship deeper and really become friends with this person?
Because then I'll be really sad when I leave them.
For real, man.
The majority of students who were involved in this massive study reported that all of that moving around had actually caused a lot of tension within the home.
Yeah. And that the students were reported reporting feeling anger and resentment toward their parents because of it.
Many would threaten to run away or refuse to move, which often led to more aggressive and negative resistant behavior.
As a result of that behavior, parents would often, and do often, react in ways that are further detrimental to the children's lives.
Such as unreasonable punishments that are a typical reaction many parents use to avoid having to deal with the actual problems that the children are forced to deal with on their own.
As a result of that, the children become more abrasive, more edgy, and more unruly, and this in turn causes the parents to become more corporal, and the vicious cycle is suddenly in full swing.
About these difficulties that military kids often experience, Dr. Michael Ferran, a psychiatrist and retired colonel, and chief of the Child, Adolescent, and Family Behavioral Health Office at Army Medical Command at Fort Sam Houston, San Antonio, Texas, says,
There's an increase in depression and anxiety.
There can be a decrease in academic performance.
In some adolescents, there's an increase in use of drugs and alcohol.
And there has been more gang activity reported in some teens.
Dr. Stephen Koza, also a retired colonel and a psychiatrist, researcher, professor, and associate director of the Center for the Study of Traumatic Stress at the Uniformed Services University in Bethesda, Maryland, would add to that by saying that there have been many reports that there are higher levels of suicidal ideations among children of military parents.
In an article by Vice in 2018, they state that one in five army kids would need mental health treatment by the time they are 16 years old.
And that's fucking crazy, dude.
Because one, there's a huge problem with over-diagnosing mental health issues in not only children, but adults, too.
And then there's the very real problem of big pharma pushing for doctors to make all sorts of diagnoses.
So that the drug manufacturers can sell more drugs and increase their stock market value.
And then there's the obvious problem of just making money circulate to make it appear that all of these programs are actually necessary.
So that the people leading those programs can take home a pretty little paycheck that equals 9 to 10 of ours, if not more.
And that's not a knock on mental health because mental health is a crucial part of our lives that we need to pay attention to.
Wherever there is a business or a market that is corruptible, well, it will be corrupted.
And then, of course, you throw into that the issues of spousal abuse within military families, which is statistically shown to be higher than non-military families.
I mean, honestly, just the moving around.
Yeah. It doesn't just cause stress on the kids.
It causes stress on the adults, too.
Oh, yeah.
Big time.
And this snowballs and it creates other cycles of abuse where then you have to dominate down the pike because you're stressed out.
And then you take it out on the kids, etc.
And then the kids take it out on, well, either other kids or possibly walls, small animals, God only knows.
But that abuse carries down.
It does, dude.
I mean, all that anger has to be let go somehow.
And kids generally, I mean, what are they going to do?
They're going to act out, you know, in negative ways.
Beating other kids up, being bullies, and like you said, killing animals.
Because starting fires, killing animals, those things are pretty typical in serial killers.
General destructive acts.
I mean, we're just grazing over the cheese grater rough surface here, but it's relevant to who Joseph Duncan III was.
Well, because he's dead now.
Right, right, right.
And so, according to Little Joey, as the family moved around from base to base, and Joseph Jr., the father, was gone doing whatever it was that he was doing around the base, his mother, Lillian May, was abusive toward him for the most menial of reasons,
just whatever.
And he described her as being a...
Domineering woman.
Who didn't hold back when inflicting her punishments upon him.
And while he was accusing his mother of being abusive, his younger brother Bruce would refute those claims in an early interview saying that 99% of his accusations were false.
Bruce would later say that he and his brother were...
Normal children.
Who... Went to school.
Went to church and were members of the Boy Scouts.
Aww. He would add that they were...
Typical teenagers.
Yeah, I don't really believe any of those lines.
Yeah, not sure about that.
But this opens the door to the argument that maybe Bruce was treated much more fairly by their mother than Joseph was.
I mean, it wouldn't be the first time that that had happened within a family.
Or... Maybe Bruce wasn't fully aware of the extent of the abuse.
Or perhaps his own perception of abuse is vastly different than those who've been abused since you can't always recognize something when you're in it.
That's true.
I mean, there's that, and then there's the fact that the only criminal in their family was Joey, and Joey did a lot of bad Joey shit.
Like, really bad shit that we're gonna get into.
And so, that could have been an incentive for Bruce to side with his mother rather than his brother, who was convicted of multiple murders, multiple rapes, and multiple counts of child molestation.
But, who knows?
Well, one of Joey's sisters, Cherie Cox, would give testimony during at least one of Joey's hearings on appeal against his three death sentences and six life sentences.
Goddamn. And she would directly contradict Bruce's claims, siding with Joey's version of abuse by their mother.
Who do you believe?
Who do you believe?
Yeah. Cherie Cox would say that she and her four siblings...
I think it's Cherie.
Cherie Cox.
Is it Cherie?
I thought it was Cherie.
I think Cherie.
Cherry? Sounds better.
Alright, Cherry Cox would say that she and her four siblings were frequently beaten by their mother while she ranted that men were worthless.
She went on to describe her mother as a crazy woman who attended church obsessively every day.
Every day?
Yeah. Wow.
Every single day?
How do you even go to church every single day?
Most churches don't really have...
Stuff every day.
I mean, they must have like a...
Either there's nothing going on in the town or they have multiple pastors or whatever.
Some kind of event to attend every day, I guess?
Boy, that's...
It's like more of a community thing than anything else.
Yeah. Like, Monday we have bingo, but it's actually church.
Tuesday we have taco day, but it's just church.
Wednesday it's bolo day, you know?
It's just church.
Well, each one comes with a free devotional.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But in reference to Joseph's abuse at the hands of his mother, he would later testify.
When she was beating on you, if you fought back, it was worse.
Joseph was passive in the face of the beatings.
In his case, he just took what she gave and kind of whimpered off into his bedroom.
That's awful.
That's just nuts.
Like, you gotta feel bad for these people as they grow up.
You know, it's not their fault.
They get learned.
These parts are not.
They get learned helplessness embedded into their mentality.
Especially through things like this where you try anything and it just makes it worse.
Yeah. So was he abused as a child by his own mother?
We here would say yes.
Yeah, yeah.
I think so.
And I'll also say that being abused as a child certainly does not mean that you were going to grow up to become a violent serial killer.
Not at all.
I mean, things might be a little tougher.
Might get into fights, break into businesses.
Business is on fire.
And you start that business owner you beat up after breaking into his business and burning it down.
Jeez. Or you might end up just becoming an incredibly nice person who takes care of everyone and extra empathic because of what's happened to you.
But it's really a coin flip.
Yeah. I mean, some actually say that you're more...
Likely to become a Catholic priest or a scoutmaster with the Boy Scouts or a youth counselor or perhaps an elementary school teacher who demands to be called by their preferred pronoun it, they, this, that, and those.
But is it true that the majority of serial killers were abused when they were children?
Well, I think that the empirical evidence suggests that yes, they were.
But... Is it also true that the majority of people in general that have been abused as children do not grow up to be serial killers?
Absolutely, yes.
It's also true that children who were never abused, never even yelled at, people who were pampered their entire lives into adulthood and treated unnaturally kind, have also become murderers or have been involved in any number of heinous crimes that they justify for a very wide range of reasons.
Whether they were crimes of opportunity, crimes of impulse, crimes of passion, or just your good old crimes of planned and calculated depravity.
Yeah, those good old crimes of planned and calculated depravity.
You know, at the good old crimes.
Or, you know, hear me out, maybe they were or are complete psychopaths.
They come from immensely wealthy families with literally nothing to ever have to worry about, including facing any punishment unto humans on their vast excluded estates.
But, you know, that's just speculation.
Oh, I mean, yeah, we're talking about, like, the Rothschilds.
But, you know, you get some random rich kid.
Who's got tons of money in the first place, who's used to no consequences to everything.
It's just inevitable that they're going to escalate until they find a wall.
Just depending on the level of power you have, you don't ever hit said wall.
And that's why our governments around the world are made up of complete psychopaths.
They're just fed with a silver spoon, and there's just no consequences to their actions.
Yeah, pretty much.
Just think like Emperor Kuzco.
Except instead of it being a few montages, just think of an entire life of being pampered and having every inconvenience fixed for you.
Right, man.
And so, all the moving around would end in 1975 in T-Town, Washington, a.k.a.
Tacoma, which would make little Joey 12 years old at the time.
This is also a period of time when the marriage between Joseph Jr. and Lillian was more than rocky and less than ideal.
By 1979, the couple would separate, and by 1983, they would legally divorce.
Little Joey would be 20 years old at this point, but let's just back up a little bit.
When his three sisters were able to, and they waited for the day that they could, they would all leave the household in Tacoma around the same time, which would have been sometime between 1975 and 1977, right around the same time that Ted Bundy was wreaking havoc on unsuspecting women.
Along with the physical abuse by his mother, he would also later tell his prison psychiatrist that he was sexually abused as a child.
His therapist, Dr. David Lysak, made it clear that the sexual abuse was afflicted by none other than his mother.
Don, don, don.
Wait, wait, wait, holy shit.
Little Joby's being sexually abused by Dr. Lysak's mother?
What's happening in Tacoma?
That would be his mom.
Oh. Not Dr. Lysak's mom, but Joey's mom.
Yeah, lovely.
You know, if you can't keep it in your pants, you keep it in the family.
Gotcha. Little incest.
Okay, gotcha.
That makes more sense.
But of the abuse, he said, I have encountered mother-son incest in more than a dozen forensic cases over the past 25 years.
One of the most notable findings in these cases is the profound disorganization it produces.
Maternal incest can, and often does, undermine the very foundations of its victims, the building blocks of identity.
In doing so, it can produce spectacularly idiosyncratic thought patterns and beliefs, which I believe can mimic some of the thought disorder symptoms commonly seen in psychosis.
Pretty rough.
That's, I mean, that's freaking awful.
Like, that is how things like altars are made.
This is kind of awful.
I was going to say, dude, that's probably what they did a lot in these government experiments for MKUltra stuff.
Like, they literally made mothers have incestual relationships with their sons.
It's like it breaks down your sense of identity, your sense of being.
It's awful.
Horrible. And this is when we find out that Bruce tells a totally different story in official court documents about their mother's abuse towards them.
He flips a 180 and gets graphic.
And the following bit comes directly from court documents related to Joseph's sentence, specifically defendant's motion for collateral relief in response to his death sentences.
And we did edit it so it's not verbatim.
Bruce Duncan confided in his aunt Jeannie that for years he and his brother Joseph Edward were the victims of ritualistic sexual abuse by their mother.
Jeannie reported the following to Dr. Lysak.
In the beginning, when Bruce was a little kid, Lillian joined a Baptist church where the parishioners spoke in tongues and acted like holy rollers.
Lillian then changed churches and began practicing Wicca.
Lillian recruited Bruce and Jet to sit in a circle at their home, possibly at Fort Ord and later at Fort Lewis, as they were naked.
With candles lit and chanting, Jeannie said Bruce was intent on describing the surroundings in detail.
He told her there was an altar and that Lillian used a scepter.
The girls were always gone when this occurred.
Jeannie could not remember how often Bruce told her this occurred or how long the abuse lasted, but it was a number of years.
Bruce told Jeannie how Lillian planned everything out.
He described it as being very ritualistic.
According to Bruce, Lillian thought she was doing Bruce and Joseph a favor.
That she was teaching them to become men.
Lillian forbid Joseph and Bruce from telling anyone about what she was doing because they would be taken away if they told.
Lillian threatened them a couple of times with the scepter she used in the rituals.
She also used this tool to penetrate them.
Once, she hurt one of the boys so badly that he ended up bleeding, but she refused to take him to the doctor for treatment.
Lillian would tie both Joseph and Bruce to a bed.
She raped them.
Lillian forced the boys to perform oral sex on her.
Bruce told Jeannie that the boys were instructed by Lillian that they were not to derive any pleasure from the sexual contact.
Bruce described Lillian violating him and his brother anally with a broomstick.
Bruce cried when he described to Jeannie how Lillian penetrated him.
That whole thing was hard to read.
That's so fucked, man.
And to tell, dude, the part where it's like she's forcing these boys to do these things to her but that they can't drive any pleasure.
You have to get hard.
It's a weird psychotic power game thing.
It's so messed up.
It's messed up in ways that are beyond normal messed up, even.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm not sure why Bruce was throwing Joseph under the bus and lying about their mother not abusing both of them as children.
It's pretty weird when you have, right there, in court, some pretty damning evidence of ritualistic child sexual abuse.
Yeah. I think at first he was trying to protect his mom or something.
Just trying to...
Because he was under her power, right?
Yeah, I imagine probably a lot of it was likely subconscious fear of retaliation.
Yeah. When his parents split up and his three sisters bounced out, little Joey would stay with their mother, probably against his will, while Bruce would live with their father, which was a strange arrangement.
And soon...
You know, it's strange because you'd think that Bruce, being like...
Mama's boy would stay with the mom and Joseph would stay with the dad.
Yeah. But...
I don't know, it's just kind of weird.
So soon after the split, Joseph Sr. would remarry and little Joey would drop out of high school to do other things that he found more valuable to him.
Now, his entire life up to this point was about to culminate into an extreme case of acting out.
And I don't say that lightly.
When he was 15 years old, he decided to take a gun, and he raped a 9-year-old boy at gunpoint.
Being the juvenile that he was in that time period, the system was excessively lenient toward him, and while he was out and about waiting for the sentencing for that crime, he was arrested for driving a stolen car.
Just a crazy son of a bitch.
For his crimes, the juvenile Joey was diagnosed with malignant narcissism.
Which is one of five forms of antisocial personality disorder.
There is the nomadic form, which includes schizoid and avoidant features.
There is the malevolent form, which includes sadistic and paranoid features.
There is the covetous form, which includes negativistic features.
And there is the risk-taking form, which includes histrionic features.
And then there is the reputation-defending form, which includes narcissistic features.
So malignant, so would that be malevolent then?
The malignant narcissism?
Yeah, I mean.
Yeah, I'm assuming that.
So I'm assuming, yeah, sadistic and paranoid.
Sounds about right.
Yeah. That's the one that I would think he would be.
Alright, Little Joey would be sentenced to a stint at the terrible Jesse Dislin.
The Boys Ranch in T-Town, Washington, which has been plagued with accusations of sexual abuse at the hands of the, quote, counselors.
Joseph would even talk about his own experiences there later on.
But not far from the Jesse Dislin Boys Ranch was the OK Boys Ranch in Olympia, Washington.
One of the worst.
Amir spit away, and that "ranch" was ordered to pay more than $22 million to 51 men who
Wild. And then there was the Kiwanis Vocational Home in Centralia, Washington.
And as of 2018, more than $5 million of settlement money for child abuse was paid out for a number of cases, with another 44 cases still pending at that time.
Abuse at the Jesse Dislin Boys Ranch has been reported throughout the years, even fairly recently.
There was an approximate $1 million paid out to three now adult men who were abused as children at that ranch.
And according to a report by the Associated Press, Joey told a therapist that was assigned to his case that he was tied up, bound, and then six boys took their turn sexually assaulting him.
Joey would also tell his therapist that he himself had raped at least 13 younger boys by the time he was 16. And if he was in the boys' ranch when he was 15, that means that in the one year of being there, he was molesting those younger boys the whole time.
For real.
For real.
Damn. So, Joey would make it through the program, and in 1980...
Almost immediately after completing it, he would go to a neighbor's house where he knew that there was a stash of weapons, and he wanted those weapons.
After successfully stealing the weapons, he decided that he should abduct a 14-year-old boy at gunpoint, who he would go on to anally rape.
He would be arrested for that as well and was sentenced to 20 years in prison.
14 years later, he would be released.
At this point, he would be around 31 years old.
And little Joey Jojo was ready to exact revenge on society.
While he was out roaming the Seattle streets looking for his next hustle, he would be arrested again for the high crime of smoking weed in Seattle in 1996.
The high crime of smoking weed, man.
It almost sounds kind of silly when you look at it nowadays.
They were quite a bit more anal about it back then, though.
Oh yeah, yeah, big time.
In general.
Yeah, because Clinton was in power and he was...
Anti-weed, even though he smoked it.
Didn't inhale.
That's back when people would call in just because they saw somebody sitting in their car not doing anything because they might be smoking weed.
The biggest concern.
Yeah, they'd call in.
I think I just saw two men.
Knock over a little girl on her bike and run into an alley with her.
I'm pretty sure they're smoking weed.
They're like, alright, let's roll.
Let's roll.
Let's go get that marijuana smoker.
It's like, do you need to send an EMS to the little girl?
Oh no, there's no time.
We gotta stop this guy.
There's a high crime happening.
Smoking weed.
He would also be released just weeks later, but the police had a strong, strong suspicion that Joseph had murdered both 11-year-old Samieho White and her 9-year-old sister Carmen Cubias in Seattle, also in 1996.
But there was nothing to tie him to those murders at that time, leaving them to be cold cases.
Some reports say that the sisters left the Crest Motel and...
Seattle, Washington to go panhandle.
Or, in other words, to collect money from generous, safe, and trustworthy people.
Yeah. Which would be totally insane for any parent or guardian to allow, but they just went ahead and did it.
That's just crazy to me.
Times were different back then.
You'd send your kids to go get cigarettes for you and stuff.
Give them some cigarettes.
Go beg for some cash.
Yeah, go beg for some cash.
Holy shit.
And then buy me some cigarettes with him.
Just tell him if you're for mom.
Yeah. Yeah, and other reports say that the two girls left to do just that.
To go buy their older brother cigarettes at a store.
But, yeah.
Don't do that today.
Yeah, I wouldn't recommend it today.
You'd definitely get in trouble now.
Unfortunately, the two sisters were never seen alive again.
Their skeletal remains were found on February 10, 1998, in Bothell, Washington, which, from Seattle, is about a 25-minute drive the way the crow flies.
Then came the date of April 4, 1997.
Ten-year-old Anthony Michael Martinez was playing with his brother, his cousin, and a couple of friends in the front yard of his family home in Beaumont, California, when an unknown man drove his car up to the kids and parked.
The man, who would turn out to be none other than the nicest guy in Hollywood, Tom Hanks, then approached the children and told them that he could use their help to find his missing cat.
Oh, wait a second.
This is not the Isaac Happy Tom Hanks episode.
Scrap all that.
Sorry. Obviously, what I meant to say is that the man was none other than Joseph Edward Duncan III, who was asking this group of boys for their assistance in finding his lost cat.
It's a common ploy.
Kind of reminds me of Jeffrey Dahmer when he'd lure his young female victims by acting like he was injured.
Like he'd put his arm in a sling...
Yeah, yeah.
Ugh. And then, well, draw you in with a false sense of security.
Oh, I'm just helping somebody who's laid up.
For real, man.
Worked like a charm.
Almost too good.
But clearly the missing cat was obviously a ruse to get at least one of the children alone so he could kidnap them.
Luckily, all of the children declined to help the weirdo, and as they were turning to walk away, Joseph quickly grabbed onto Anthony's brother.
But as he was scrambling to get away, and Anthony stepped in to help, Joseph brandished a large knife and grabbed onto Anthony, at which point he physically threw him into his car and sped away.
So, yeah, the ruse was abandoned.
Pretty quick.
What about the cat?
Yeah. What about the missing cat?
Tell me about the cat.
Did he ever find the cat?
Fuck. Oh, man.
Terrible. For two weeks thereafter, the community and police officials desperately searched for the missing child, and on April 19th...
Fifteen days later, his nude and partially decomposed corpse was found in Indio, California.
Upon a thorough inspection of the body, it was found that Anthony had been bound with duct tape and sexually assaulted before being tortured and beaten to death.
And just like the cases of Sammiejo White and Carmen Cubias, the death of Anthony Martinez would become a cold case.
A lot of cold cases during this time.
Eventually, Little Joey would be sent back to prison in Missouri for violating his terms of parole in 1997, but he would serve about three years and be let back out for good behavior on July 14, 2000.
Upon his release, he would move to the nearby town of Fargo, North Dakota, land of the lonesome woodchipper.
But he couldn't repress his twisted desires.
And molested two young boys in Detroit Lakes, Minnesota in June of 2004.
Yeah, well, when it's a compulsion, he just keeps getting pushed and just keeps making excuses for himself.
In March of 2005, he was charged with that molestation, and the judge granted him bail of $15,000, which was put up by a local Fargo businessman who had known Joseph from earlier encounters.
He would be released the following month in April.
Unfortunately for that businessman slash friend who posted bail, little Joey would take flight, which meant that the friend would lose all of that bond money.
Yep, that gets your bond revoked right there.
15 G's.
Gone. Kind of demonstrates that he wasn't necessarily without charisma either.
Oh yeah, for real.
Yeah, who was this fucking businessman that befriended him?
Yeah, which says to me at some point, at the very least, he has some level of psychopath charm that he can put on.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah. On June 1st, a federal warrant was issued for his arrest on the charge of unlawful flight to avoid prosecution.
Unlawful flight?
So is there a charge of lawful flight to avoid prosecution?
You know, you phone in ahead of time.
Hey, I'm going to run from you.
Before you come to get me?
That's okay, right?
And they're like, oh, since you asked.
I guess.
It's the lesser charge.
It's okay, he was taking a lawful flight.
Yeah, I can't help but feel that he knew he was on a downward spiral and knew what his intentions were.
But we'll get into that shortly.
Jesus. On to more murders, Sam.
This dude was prolific.
Now we'll briefly go over the Groney family murders and the abduction of Dylan and Shasta, and then we'll bravely dive chin-first into Joseph Duncan's diary entry, which gives much more detail on that specific attack.
Quick side note before we jump into this, it needs to be noted that the father of the Groney children, Steve Groney, was separated from the mother, Brenda Groney, and not living at the house that is mentioned here.
Yeah, he's completely separated.
He's not even involved in this at all.
It's just so nuts, dude.
This one's especially gruesome.
On May 15, 2005, the Groney family had driven from their home to Coeur d'Alene, Idaho to run some errands before returning home for a barbecue with some of their friends, which would last into the evening.
Earlier in the day, 13-year-old Slade Groney had gone to a neighbor's house to mow their lawn for some of that fast cash money.
When the job was done, the neighbor realized that they didn't have the money to pay him.
But they were trustworthy, and they told Slade that they would stop by his house the following day to pay him what he was owed.
So Slade returned home, looking forward to the following day when he'd get paid.
But what nobody knew was that there was someone dangerous lurking in the woods that surrounded the home, and this person was watching the Groney's movements the entire time, even using night-vision goggles when it got dark.
This person was Joseph Duncan, who was planning his ruthless attack.
The following day, the neighbor who owed Slade some cash for mowing his yard had followed through on his promise and stopped by the Groney house to pay a slave.
But when he arrived, he would find it strange that nobody was answering the door, yet the doors on the vehicles in the driveway were left wide open, and their dog was barking incessantly inside the house.
Something didn't sit right with the neighbor.
Getting an odd feeling about the eerie situation, the neighbor would call 911.
When deputies arrived and searched around the premises, They found the lifeless bodies of Brenda and Slade Groney in the kitchen and Mark McKenzie's body in the living room.
All three were bludgeoned to death with a hammer.
But there was no sign of the two youngest children, Dylan and Shasta Groney.
Immediately, there would be a search put into place and the entire surroundings were thoroughly combed for clues.
At the same time...
An Amber Alert was issued nationwide for the two missing children.
By May 18th, two days later, the lead suspect became a 33-year-old man named Robert Roy Lutner.
Robert had a lengthy criminal record and was believed to have visited the gronies on the day that the family was attacked, probably to check out the barbecue.
But it was a relative of Robert's who told investigators that he, Robert, had owed Brenda and Mark $2,000, which made him the prime suspect.
When Robert learned that he was being implicated in the attack, he promptly turned himself in and denied having anything to do with any of it.
He would even take a polygraph test and pass, which doesn't really mean shabby, considering that polygraphs are pseudoscientific and...
Don't tend to be reliable at all.
There's all kinds of tricks you can do to cheat them, actually.
All sorts of shit.
Everybody knows it.
And the belief that they work is the same as believing that you're getting a great deal on a timeshare in the Florida Everglades.
There was this guy, his name was Doug Williams.
He died in 2021, but he was a former Oklahoma City police officer who worked as an interrogator in the 1970s.
The polygraph was a huge part of his job, but he realized that it was just being used as a psychological billy club in the world of All in Order.
Psychological billy club, dude.
I still remember the story of some...
Some cops that just hooked somebody up to a printer who just printed out he's lying when they thought he was.
What the fuck?
Yeah, they used that to trick him into confessing.
So yeah, that's how reliable they are.
You could just print out he's lying when you think they are and it's just about as good.
That's fucking hilarious, dude.
My federal law states that polygraphs are not admissible in court.
Some courts will still allow so-called evidence in the form of inadmissible polygraph test results.
Yeah, that's so stupid.
Well, I imagine it's part of creating a preponderance.
If you've got a whole bunch of things you can pile up that are not necessarily admissible, but at the same time, the stuff that is admissible, it could bolster.
Right, right.
It's all this stuff.
That's about the best they go for.
Isn't direct evidence.
I guess circumstantial.
Just kind of supports their theory of guilt.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Look, these fake polygraph test results say he's lying.
Well, he must be lying then.
Or at least now he can treat it as if he's lying and approach the questioning that way.
Right. But of course, for 36 years after he leaves the police force, Doug starts training people on how to beat the polygraph, charging up to a grand procession.
He appeared on 60 Minutes and even testified before a U.S. Congressional Subcommittee on the ineffectiveness of it.
This caused the federal government to conduct a sting operation against him in 2012 and 2013.
The government claimed he was training people on how to cover up their crimes so that they could obtain positions within the government.
Oh, of course.
Yeah. This was obviously a farce as he was just training them on how to beat Tolligraphs, period, and not specifically for that reason.
Exactly. And so they couldn't convict him of anything related to that.
So instead they got him on mail fraud and witness tampering, which kind of sounds like we just had to get you on something.
Some bullshit.
We don't want to look absolutely retarded, so we'll convict you on some bullshit mail fraud.
Like, what the fuck is a mail fraud?
He used a fucking...
He peeled a stamp off that didn't get marked with the mail company or whatever, with the mail service, and he just peeled that off and used it again?
Was that mail fraud?
I don't know.
Maybe if he sent out advertisements for his services.
Oh, man.
Mail fraud.
Fraud through the mail.
I don't know.
I don't get how they even had that.
The witness tampering thing is even funnier because it's like, so in other words, you're mad that somebody realized your test didn't work.
Who are the witnesses?
Like, why are they witnesses?
Well, you know, it's a potential.
Yeah, I was about to say, more like suspect tampering is more what it sounds like.
I'm like, if you're a witness, you'd think you'd already be kind of motivated to tell the truth.
Like, he's just offering these courses.
Two random people on the streets, right?
The average citizen, but then the federal government's like, well, that average citizen might potentially become a witness to a crime, and you're training them to cover up the crime.
Nobody ever knew how not to snitch on people until he taught them how to beat a polygraph, right?
Which I'm thinking to myself, why would they be polygraphing a witness in the first place?
Yeah, I feel like they would already be getting rid of them as a witness by the point that they'd have to test their honesty.
Alright, so in 1998, Justice Claris Thomas wrote, There is simply no consensus that polygraph evidence is reliable and most judges have agreed.
A 2002 report by the National Academy of Sciences found that...
The quality of polygraph research falls far short of what is desirable.
At any rate, Doug Williams was sent to prison for two years and treated like total shit.
He continued training people on how to pass tests up until the day he died from a, quote, illness.
Hmm. Yeah.
Interesting. I don't know.
Illness. Don't know about that.
Illness. Yeah, that already sounds suspicious.
Very suspicious.
But Robert would be cleared from being a suspect, and a $100,000 reward was being offered to help find the true culprit.
And so now, this brings us to Joseph Edward Duncan's diary entry, dated May 14th, 2018, which was basically 13 years to the day that he attacked the Groney family.
It's an exact account of the preparations that he made leading up to the attack, and the steps that he took afterward.
It's extremely detailed, but it's really interesting because we get a first-hand glimpse into the psyche of an extremely dangerous human being.
And if you liked the first part of this and would like to hear the second half, you can head over to our Patreon where you can get that as well as other bonus episodes and extra content.
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And so, thank you all for listening, and we hope to have you back next week for another fun time story by Two Straight Dudes.
You can follow us on Twitter X under at Paranautica, or you can talk...
Or you can stalk Cricket directly and individually under at individual the.
Yep. So, you know, someone will see it.
Don't worry about it.
Someone's going to see it.
I had to block a bot that kept messaging me because despite the fact that no one actually reads it, I still get random bots.
What did the bot do?
Just kept asking if I was a robot.
And then I said, I don't know, I feel like I might be one sometimes.
And then it started asking me, like, probing questions, and I didn't feel like answering it.
And then it just kept repeating the, are you a robot thing.
So finally I just said, okay, I'm just going to block you now.
Because robots don't block.
So that's how they're getting information.
There you go, I'll prove I'm real.
That's how they're getting information from people.
They're putting these bots out there.
Elon Musk putting these bots out on Twitter and asking people for personal information.
Most random shit.
Favorite color.
Blue. Favorite food.
Tacos. Just random data that these bots are collecting for Elon Musk to just absorb into his AI brain.
He's just over there connected to Twitter wires.
He's just like...
Just absorbing people's fucking data, dude.
But yeah, you see...
I know it.
Bots never like anything.
Unless they're actually programmed to.
It just shows up as a bunch of reads because I have like 40 bots as followers and like 4 people.
That's probably most of the podcast too.
I was going to say that's probably most accounts on X honestly.
It's probably mostly bots at this point and a few people.
Maybe once you get past a certain point you start seeing actual people.
And how many accounts?
Because you can make multiple accounts.
Under your name.
And so, like, how many of those are just made just for fun, to fuck with shit, fuck the algorithms up, and all of that, dude?
I don't know.
All I know is none of my shit actually shows up.
I don't see it.
Nobody sees it.
So... Because we're all shadow banned.
We have to hit, like, 50,000 followers to be un-shadow banned.
It's ridiculous.
I just like one.
You just want one?
I have yet to get one like that wasn't off of a post from Repost.
That's it.
Nothing I put out there, so it pretty much don't exist.
I just started deleting most of the shit for it, because I'm like, nobody sees this shit anyways.
What the hell?
Just keep doing what you're doing, and keep sharing the podcast there, and eventually...
People will come.
If you build it, they will come.
Come on, people.
Go to atindividualthe and start liking his post and sharing his post and share this podcast.
So don't forget to like, share, and subscribe and give us a five-star review wherever you can, as well as a short novel of how super awesome, amazing the show really is.
And until next time, our dear listeners, take care of yourselves and take care of one another.
