CONTACT US: Email: paranaughtica@gmail.com Twitter: @paranaughtica Facebook: The Paranaughtica Podcast Hello ladies and gents. We have a fantastic episode for you today. We’re talking Baphomet, the Knights Templar, Goat of Mendez, and the differences between entities, gods, ghosts, specters, whatever it may be, and ‘how’ those differences were apparent throughout the different cultures of the world. Now, who is Dr. Lynn?Dr. Heather Lynn is an author, historian, and renegade archaeologist, on a quest to uncover the truth behind ancient mysteries. She holds numerous degrees and certificates in both history and archaeology. She left a life in academia to investigate ancient mysteries, lost civilizations, ancient aliens, and the occult. Heather’s work exposes our hidden history, challenging the accepted narrative found in mainstream history books. She is also a contributor to History's Ancient Aliens and a frequent guest on podcasts and radio programs like Coast to Coast AM. Heather also hosts, The Midnight Academy podcast. After earning undergraduate degrees in archaeology, liberal arts, and information technology, Heather studied anthropology, history, and technology through graduate school, earning her MA in History, followed by a doctorate in Education from the University of New England, where she researched the andragogical value of digital technologies over real artifacts in museum exhibits, as well as the phenomenological motivations and perceptions of adult learners in the museum environment.Heather is also a certified social & behavioral research investigator through the Collaborative Institutional Training Initiative (CITI Program). In her "spare time," Heather plays the French horn in a local symphony orchestra whose performances raise money to provide art and cultural education to low-income communities and has recently started playing the violin. She is also a practitioner of Krav Maga, a military self-defense and fighting system that combines techniques used in aikido, boxing, judo, karate, and wrestling. Heather finds peace in classical music, tennis, flower gardening, and a good cup of tea.Email: heather@drheatherlynn.comWebsite: drheatherlynn.com This conversation that we have is absolute FIRE! It’s a must-hear!Please, give us a 5-star like, we’ll even be happy with a 4.......*sad panda.........Honestly though, we’d truly appreciate our fans’ input on the show. But we also LOVE those 5-star reviews. Those really help the sbow. ***If you’d like to help out with a donation and you’re currently listening on Spotify, you can simply scroll down on my page and you’ll see a button to help me out with either a one-time donation or you can set up a monthly recurring donation. You can also go to the Facebook page where I have a link to Ko-Fi and Pay-Pal if you'd like to help out the show. I would greatly appreciate it! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
I'm actually pretty excited and nervous about this, other than being incredibly sleep-deprived.
We've got a pretty awesome guest here today that I am quite eager to listen to, and I definitely did not want to miss this.
Well, I hope that all of you scallywags out there are doing super fantastic, and I hope that this past week has been great for you all.
All the crazy stuff going on seems pretty darn bleak at times, but...
I just won two club championships, not even senior.
To do that, you have to be quite smart.
I feel that I'm as good a shape as I was years ago.
I feel very good.
I feel the same.
And, you know, I just won two club championships, not even senior.
Thank you.
President Biden?
Well, anyway, just take a look at what he says he is and take a look at what he is.
But look at this room and what you see.
That's right.
Look, I'd be happy to have a driving contest with him.
I got my handicap, which when I was...
Look, which when I was...
Who is on your list, Joe?
Would you shut up, man?
Listen, who is on your list, Joe?
Gentlemen. Thank you.
Kareem, I got my handicap, which is when I was...
I don't want you to have to stay.
You gave me permission to touch me.
Make sure you, in fact, let people know you're a senator.
I'm not going to answer the question.
Why wouldn't you answer that question?
Gentlemen, you haven't been to a caucus?
Yes. No, you haven't.
You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier.
Gentlemen, people out there need help.
But why didn't you do it over the last 25 years?
Because you weren't president screwing things up.
You were a senator.
You're the worst president America has ever had.
Come on, gentlemen.
Let's not act like joking.
He's the worst president in the history of our country.
And, you know, I just won two top championships, not even senior.
To do that, you have to be quite smart.
I think quite smart.
But let's just forget about all of that for a little while, because today we have with us here at the Perinatica Studios...
The incredible and always beautiful Dr. Heather Lynn.
Now, Dr. Lynn has a PhD in comparative religion, which is the branch of study of religions with the systematic comparison of the doctrines and practices and the themes and impacts, including migration of the world's religions.
And outside of academia, she investigates ancient mysteries, lost civilizations, ancient aliens, and the occult.
She's also a contributor to the History Channel's behemoth, Ancient Aliens.
Has been a frequent guest on numerous podcasts and radio, such as the iconic Coast to Coast AM.
And I was wondering, Heather, were you fortunate enough to meet Art Bell?
Or were you after his time?
I've met him, spoken to him, but in terms of show appearances, it was after.
My show appearance when it was initially with George Norrie.
Oh, that's cool, though.
You got to meet Art Bell.
I envy you.
Yeah. I envy you.
That guy was the man.
That's gotta be neat.
He was amazing.
And Dr. Lynn also hosts her own podcast, The Midnight Academy, featuring guests on topics ranging from ancient aliens and lost civilizations to esoteric knowledge and unexplained phenomena.
You also offer some top-notch college-level courses on all things Anunnaki.
You want to tell us about that really quick?
Sure. The first of its kind.
There's not other courses that have been modeled after an actual college course, so it is rigorous, but it is fun and there's a lot of people already signed up.
Seating is limited.
The course starts August 26th, so get in while you can.
The seating is limited because there's a good student to teacher ratio.
What makes it a college-level course is that I use the same methodology of designing the course as I did for my college courses that I taught in humanities.
So same sort of course, but just dealing with a little bit of a different topic.
So I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah, that sounds awesome, dude.
Yeah. Anunnaki.
What do you know about Anunnaki, Cricket?
I mean, you're a messenger with the Arcturians.
Are there inside battles between the Arcturians and the Anunnaki?
If anything.
My understanding, as far as I knew, is they're technically working for the Arcturians.
It's not so much a conflict as it is a pretend conflict, but a behind-the-scenes collaboration that they're no longer agreeing to.
That was the message that I got.
But the way they've always been presented is they were always the
enslaving humanity generally and the ones controlling us, creating us for their purposes and everything.
So I wouldn't really say that there's necessarily battles as that there is...
Disagreements? What I know about the Anunnaki is pretty slim compared to Arcturians,
as my college had ended at the much vaunted level of some college.
Okay. Check the box.
Dr. Lin's research includes nothing but interesting subjects such as mythology, esotericism, hidden history, and metaphysics.
I mean, it's everything you're thinking human beings should have in their Bentley of a fanny pack with off-gold trim, right alongside a grip of pogs and a couple of those metal slammers.
Remember those things?
She's also an outstanding archaeologist, an industrious researcher, a provocative public speaker, and a formidable writer, hence the reason why she is here with us today so she can promote her new book, Baphomet Revealed, Mysteries and Magic of the Sacred Icon,
which is not, I repeat, not her first book, as this is her sixth, if I'm not mistaken.
Dr. Lynn, thank you for being here, and welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
It is a real pleasure.
I'm so excited to speak to both of you and maybe learn a little bit more about the Arcturians.
That's where my knowledge gaps are.
Well, there you go.
And so, Dr. Lin, your new book is adorned with the image that was extensively popularized by Eliphas Levy or Alphonse Louis Constant, the French occultist who wrote over 20 books on the Kabbalah alchemical studies and essentially everything that was considered practical
and ritualistic magic of his time, the early to late 1800s.
Well, it is...
A powerful image, and if you see the cover of the book, it might look a little scary.
Most people are afraid of the image, which is why it's also been used to torment people, especially now.
It's used as a symbol of rebellion.
It can be trolling to people of Abrahamic faith, but it's a complex and multifaceted icon.
It's really evolved over many centuries.
Originally, Baphomet was a term used in the 12th century to describe An idol or possibly a deity that the Knights Templar were accused of worshipping.
The etymology of it is still hotly debated, but many scholars suggest that it's some sort of corruption of the name of Muhammad that was sort of overheard.
And so in prayer, it was believed that the Templars might have been praying to Muhammad, and given the person who was translating it, mishearing it, they mistook Muhammad, like a French kind of version of it, and the way that the syllables were emphasized with Muhammad.
Mohammed over and over again, rather than Mohammed being Baphomet.
And so it reflected at the time in the Crusader sort of tensions between Christians and Muslims.
And there's plenty of source material for that.
There are actually the transcripts from the court hearings of the Knights Templar and all of the things that they were accused of doing in the...
Worship of this icon, which, again, we don't really have any images of what that is.
Some people said that it was a skull.
Some people suggested it was a cat.
There's been a whole host of things, but it was really just...
Maybe a misunderstanding of a word, but it was a very mysterious thing.
And then the history of it sort of drops off from that.
It wasn't until about the 19th century when, as you said, Eliphas Levy in his book Dogma and Ritual, De La Haumagie, the Dogma and Ritual of High Magic, he illustrated this figure.
of Baphomet, and it is the iconic one that you may think of today, or if you're familiar with it, or even if you just google it, you'll see this strange-looking humanoid figure with a goat's head, sometimes referred to as the sabbatic goat.
The seat is figured, it has one arm pointing up and the other down, and it embodies the hermetic principle of"as above, so below." It's a little bit frightening.
The figure is androgynous.
It symbolizes the unity of opposites, male and female, good and evil.
And it has a host of esoteric symbols, including the pentagram, clearly on the forehead, and a torch between the horns, a caduceus on the lap.
So from this, you could understand why it might be scary, particularly in the time of the 19th century.
But to really understand why this occultist was creating this image, you have to understand Levy's background.
And he was, surprisingly, maybe to most, a Catholic priest.
And he was a very devout Catholic.
And he was undergoing a lot of personal changes.
He had some...
Problems with the way the church was being run and operated.
He felt like there was a lack of mysticism in the Catholic faith, that it was a lot of bureaucracy and many of the things that people, maybe even in a Protestant movement, were thinking.
But what he did was he thought the idea of socialism, which was...
Coming up around the time he was, and there was a lot of political discussion and debate and popular culture around him about socialism, and it really resonated with him.
And in the Catholic faith, there is a rich tradition of teaching social values.
And so for him, it just sort of matched.
It aligned with his view of Catholicism, meaning unity and togetherness.
So he looked at that, and he looked at his religion, and he thought, Well, these people in the Catholic faith, they're being hypocrites, but the socialists have a better view of Catholicism than the church.
So he believed that socialism was what he called true Catholicism.
So he made this baphomet image to represent his view of true Catholicism.
And so, of course, it looks...
Pretty scary, but his vision for it was that it would symbolize what would happen if everybody came together, including the goat of Mendes or the sabbatic goat, the figure that is anti-Christ in his view, and in the popular view of the Abrahamic faith,
particularly Christianity.
So in this image, you have in his view...
A representation of what would happen if we were truly Catholic or truly socialist and truly united.
We would have the love and forgiveness of God, including God would love and forgive the darker elements of...
Our reality.
So he depicts this as our goal is to come together and unite love and light and evil and darkness and male and female and all of this.
So the view is supposed to be that of an icon you'd meditate looking at.
You would look at it and initially it might frighten you, but if you ponder it, meditate, ask for God's guidance, you'll see that at the end of the day, it's about unity and love.
It's a little bit off-putting, but it meant something that represented something a lot different than how it's looked at today.
And of course, when you see this image, it doesn't necessarily make you think of all those thoughts like peace, love, and happiness at all.
But I guess that was the challenge he was putting on us.
And it wasn't taken very well either, as you could imagine.
So he ends up with...
The church and deciding he is going to change everything and become a great magician.
And he puts out this book in 1856 and it actually became a certified bestseller.
People from all over read this book and it influenced how people thought.
So since then, that symbol of Baphomet was sort of divorced from the idea of Catholicism or even socialism and it became associated with various occult traditions.
It died out a little bit between the 1800s and, say, the turn of the century because not so many people were wanting to be magicians.
It still has always been a subcultural expression.
But it came back, it emerged in the 1960s with modern Satanism and the occult revival.
And so in the occult revival, people started getting interested in these older ideas of magic again.
You see people, even when you look at the Beatles album of Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, you'll see a little image of Aleister Crowley in the past.
Yeah, the idea of going to India and finding a guru reflected what the early occultists were doing in theosophy when Helena Blavatsky went to India and got herself a guru, an ascended master, and came back and introduced those Eastern ideas to the West.
So you see this This reinvigoration of the ideas of the occult, but done so in this, what we consider still to be a subculture, but it kind of became a dominant culture due to television and media showing the hippies and the flower children.
And many don't realize that the subtext of that was the occult revival.
And so in order to stoke the flames of rebellion, Baphomet emerged again as a cultural symbol.
And was adopted, particularly by Satanism.
And it just represented the synthesis of polarities between opposing forces.
So it's also been linked to Pan, the Greek god of nature, and its association with earthly elements.
But the book itself is not...
As scary as it may look, it is not an apology for Baphomet.
It's not a promotion of Baphomet.
And nor is it an indictment.
It is simply just a look at the actual facts of this hidden history.
And my point for that was to, one, educate, but two, demystify.
So that when people have a tendency to maybe see this in the world around them today, they don't have that knee-jerk reaction anymore of fear that now they can understand.
The history behind this symbol, what it actually means.
And by doing that, if they felt that it would have had a power over them, maybe now it won't.
Because in my work in demonology and in my work writing evil archaeology, there was a consistent theme that I kept seeing occur, regardless of somebody's religious beliefs or lack of belief.
But they said, everybody, paranormal investigators, demonologists, exorcists, whether they be...
Sort of folk exorcists, but also from legitimate Catholic priests who have been in the field doing exorcisms.
You name it.
One thing that unites all of their ideas was that the number one thing that could lead you to susceptibility and vulnerability of being possessed is fear.
And that the only way to counteract fear was through some sort of faith or some sort of security and knowledge.
And that could look like many things.
It could look like the name of Jesus.
It could look like Gnosis.
It could look like you name it.
But regardless of how it's been interpreted, the one thing that seemed to be the unifying thread was the idea that if you walk in fear, it makes you vulnerable.
And so perhaps by learning more about this symbol, it may help alleviate people's fear.
It doesn't mean they have to go around wearing a Baphomet shirts and be like, hey!
But, you know, at least they can understand and not let something like a little picture rule their lives.
That's perfectly put.
Very good.
And I wanted to ask you, when Eliphas Levy put out this book, his first book, Dogmas and Rituals, did another occultist or whatever, A.E. Waite, is that why A.E. Waite hated him?
What the fuck?
Who knows?
Wait, you're back.
What just happened?
I don't know.
Everything just dropped.
It said no internet connection and everything just dropped.
Were we getting to something?
Yeah, I don't see Lynn anymore.
I saw her drop off while you were asking her a question and then you froze up and then you dropped off and then it told me I had no interconnection here.
And now we're all back.
What the fuck?
Were we getting to something interesting there?
We must have been touching on something a little too close.
And the powers that be decided to get crazy on us.
Well, you know, it's...
Fuck, man.
Realigning of the spirit and the quelling of the vertices is actually far more dangerous than any explosive.
That's irritating.
Dangerous energies, man.
Dangerous energies.
Stupid internet.
We'll call that a fluke, as long as it doesn't keep happening every time we get to something interesting.
That's never happened to me.
I've never dropped a fucking thing.
I've had it hang where I couldn't hear you for a few seconds, but then it would catch up.
But I've never had it just straight up drop you and her.
And, well, just straight up, tell me I have no internet for like five seconds afterwards.
That was nuts.
Fuck, man.
All right, so we're going to have to get her back in here.
I made sure not to leave because I was like, if I leave, will I wreck everything we've had so far?
So I remained stalwart.
Good. And thankfully, I did come back.
Yeah, if you got a way to message her, so we can get her back here.
Yeah, I'm sending her a message right now.
It was just getting interesting.
She was just explaining why it was a goat and not a lamb.
Dang it.
That was the part I wanted to learn.
So stupid.
That is so stupid, dude.
Well, I mean, I sent her some emails and messages.
Said we seem to have had an issue.
Try coming back in.
I don't know.
Dang it.
And we were just getting to the part where it was going to be interesting and we were actually going to get to conjecture and stuff.
Yeah. We were right there.
Back on?
Back in.
Alright, we're back in it.
I don't know...
I don't know what happened.
I don't even know how much of that you got, but I was like, I was on a whole, like, bathroom at work.
Yeah, I don't know.
I just, on my end, it just said my internet dropped.
I just got a big thing that says, no internet.
I'm like, what the fuck?
We're back on.
We're back.
I think we were touching a little too close to the goods.
Some third rails.
Now, what was I, I was asking a question now.
The book, okay, so.
A.E. Waite, from what I have read, A.E. Waite and Elvis Levy had a lot of kind of hatred for each other.
And I think, is that because of the books that Levy was putting out?
Yes. The thing is, at that time, especially, and then moving more into this practice of the Western esoteric tradition, there were a lot of different...
Some of them were legitimate.
They had some disagreements with different things.
But I really do believe that a lot of it was kind of K-Fob, if you're familiar with that.
So like world wrestling oriented, where they knew what they were doing, particularly Crowley, where he would pick fights with other magicians.
But in terms of levy and weight, Levy's work laid a lot of the groundwork for most of the Western esoteric tradition post-1860.
Waits had a more scholarly approach, and he had practical contributions like the famous Rider-Waite tarot deck, and that helped make esoteric knowledge a lot more accessible to a broader audience.
While Levy's books were certified bestsellers, and they did reach a broader audience per se, the audience that Would gravitate to Levy.
He tended to be poets and people who were relatively famous, celebrities.
So Waite was trying to reach an audience that was even less initiated than that.
And so that was a little bit...
That contributed a little bit.
Maybe he felt that...
Weight was trying to give too much information to the profane.
So it's unclear.
Both of them studied and had a working relationship at times, but there was a strange tension, and it would be fair to call it a rivalry, I would say.
But how much of that was based in their disagreements?
How much of that was based on their disagreement to the approach that they were using to make the esoteric exoteric?
And how much of it was a little bit of theater?
I think all three played into it.
Yeah, I think so.
I just know, like, reading, I haven't read any of A.E. Wade's books, but I've read a lot of Levy books, and there's just a lot of, it seems like, back-and-forth dialogue going on between them.
In terms of, like, the rivalry.
Yeah. Like, what's going on here?
What is happening?
Yeah, so, and it's, and they both had a view on Baphomet.
So... That was probably another thing that caused this rivalry, and it's probably a really good example, too, on how they had that rivalry.
They both had their own interpretation, and you can see the difference in that interpretation if you look at the Devil card in the Rider-Waite tarot deck.
So that was his interpretation of the symbolic Baphomet.
Waite saw Baphomet as just a symbol rather than a literal deity.
And he believed that Levy's depiction embodied esoteric truths and mystical principles that reflect those dualities and an inherent pursuit of the occult knowledge.
So while he didn't go so far as to suggest that Levy was proposing it to be a deity, I think that they just had these philosophical differences about how far they would go in the promotion of that.
I would say that...
I would use the term radicalized.
Levy was due to his political beliefs and the beef that he had with the church and the empowerment that he felt that he had becoming a magician.
I think he started to feel so empowered, maybe get ahead of himself a little bit.
And I think that that conflicted with Waite's more academic approach.
And that was something that it just didn't work.
So they were a great counterbalance.
I'll say here that Waite's tarot card on the devil card is quite interesting.
Yeah. So it's like you got Baphomet sitting there on like a stool or something, doing the same sort of posture as Levi's.
And then down below them, it's two horned people, a woman and a man, on either side.
And they're both chained to whatever Baphomet's sitting on.
Yeah, it's...
It's a little bit different, clearly, from the one that we're used to seeing.
And the one that Waite was trying to depict had more to do with the question of nature, I would say.
Nature as a concept, and if you think about where the positioning that these people were coming from after the Enlightenment, this was a little more post-Enlightenment, and it was during a time of what's called Romanticism.
It was a time of very tense debate over the utility of science and the value of science.
And some people went full-on just secular.
Other people had a reactionary response, and those were the Romantics.
And they hearkened back to a different time.
And what they viewed was classical antiquity, the Roman era.
It wasn't legitimately founded in their belief that they had it better in that sense.
It was...
A romanticizing view of that.
They were having a view that in the past it was so much better, particularly when it comes to the idea of what nature is, the role of philosophy.
They wanted to go and reclaim this view of the world that they thought had been lost after the Enlightenment.
While they were also seeking the light, they felt that it was more of an expression of an inner light.
It just represents the social and political changes that were...
And so when you see the work of Waite in particular and consider that he was taking at the time maybe more of a scholarly approach to it, you can look at that from the perspective of that time period that he was dealing with the questions of what nature would be.
So sometimes looking at it like being chained to nature.
I remember Baphomet, in many people's view, represented Pan.
And Pan was the god of nature.
And it's not just any god.
Again, we're kind of hearkening back to the classical era of Greco-Roman times and mythology.
And so we're coming and bringing those pagan deities back into the discussion.
So he's looking at it from that perspective.
Levy was, too, to some extent.
But what he was trying to do was master it on his own.
He was trying to show that human beings could be empowered.
So this, again, this even comes out of that period.
You have Nietzsche as a philosopher.
You have this idea of the Ubermensch come about.
And it's a very important time period where people start to...
They're at a crossroads.
They're at this point where we have the enlightenment.
Now what?
So we're falling away from God.
We're going into the secular realm.
What do we do with that?
And in Nietzsche's quote that people often cite about God being dead, most people cite it as some sort of atheist victory.
Like they just know the first line of God is dead.
And while that's a very powerful way to, you know, open something, it wasn't the whole of Nietzsche's message.
So it's important to kind of look at that whole quote in its context to understand the mindset that these occultists were even coming under.
The initial quote is, God is dead, but he goes on to say, and we have killed him.
He says, how shall we comfort ourselves, murderers of all murderers?
So he acknowledges there, God is dead.
He's not coming back.
And we humans are the ones who killed him.
He says, how shall we comfort ourselves, murderers of all murderers?
So he's acknowledging that, wow, humans have done something no one else has been able to do.
We killed the unkillable.
And it's more of a rhetorical question that's highlighting now the guilt and the shame.
And he says, what was holiest and mightiest of all the world has yet to be owned, has bled to death under our knives.
Who will wipe this blood off of us?
And so he's drawing this idea of blood and that we did something with a knife.
It wasn't that we just suffocated God.
It was done in the view of a sacrifice, a blood sacrifice.
And he questions what water is there for us to clean ourselves.
And he says, what games of atonement.
Must we have to invent to atone for this?
And so it's this notion that he's acknowledging that through religion, we've invented, we've created rituals, ritual games.
He's acknowledging that the construct built around God is one that was man-made.
He's acknowledging that insofar as we could, we've now killed God.
What is probably more interesting is that he doesn't just go on and celebrate that.
Yes, he's lamenting it.
He's a little sad about it.
We're not having a picture of victory here.
And we're not having a picture saying, well, we should bring him back.
Hurry, get CPR.
Let's bring God back.
He says instead, he's painting this picture of somebody who stood there at the throne of God.
And never before has anyone been able to approach God in this way.
And one human in the collective us has a knife and has killed God and bled God.
And that was a blood sacrifice.
And what we're dealing with is the aftermath.
What will we do now?
Because before when we had guilt and shame, we could sacrifice and God would forgive us.
There would be something we could do to cleanse.
We could make a festival in the honor of God for atonement.
But now we can't.
Because we killed the one who could forgive us.
So he ends the quote by saying, Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us?
Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?
Wow. That right there, that last sentence tells you everything you need to know about the Victorian and Edwardian era in the West and what has happened in so many different Areas of society.
And this is where the seeds were planted for Nazism.
This is where the occult revival happened.
Just this question of, okay, we had the Enlightenment, people got very materialist, and now we have the response in rejection to that as the Romantics.
Now what do we do?
Well, Nietzsche here, he's not necessarily suggesting because...
Some have taken it to mean that, which is where we get the idea of transhumanism.
Okay, so he's not necessarily saying, we have to become gods.
No, he's saying, must we?
He's asking a question.
And so there's a lot there to unpack, as you could imagine, Nietzsche wrote that way.
But so many people were busy unpacking it in one way that...
We'll say Levy and others unpacked this, was to say, yes, we must become gods.
We can become gods, and we do that through magic.
Yeah, you look around us, a lot of these people do think that they are gods.
Like the tech industry people?
Man, CERN can be a very dangerous concept.
It is kind of funny to imagine the founder of nihilism being such an emotional guy.
I'm just imagining all of these different philosophers and esoteric magicka arguments being called out from opposite ends of a wrestling ring in keyfabe with the heel on one end, representing we must become God and the hero on the other end saying,
no, we can't do this.
And it's just all so dramatic and lit up so brilliantly.
It's quite the mental image.
I like how you used keyfabe at the beginning.
Thank you for that.
He's a huge fan of keyfabe.
It made a great mental image that's been playing out through this whole discussion.
Well, Nietzsche's work is so important for these very reasons.
He was probably one of the greatest thinkers of our...
Yeah. People saying, oh, see, it's atheism.
Other people say, no, he's arguing we should have never killed God.
Other people say, no, it's the third way.
And what you have in this third way is what has really been the push towards not only postmodern, but what now is post-human future.
And that's with Nietzsche's concept of the Ubermensch or the Overman or Superman.
And that was his sort of introduction to that in the God is Dead quote.
And that really inspired.
The Nazi regime to sort of look into this as a real movement.
And even something as small and seemingly insignificant and trivial as the comic book Superman was inspired by this thought.
The two comics who...
Created Superman.
They were from my hometown here in Cleveland.
They were only 18 years old.
And they were dealing with the Depression.
And they were very broke.
And so they literally had a side hustle.
And they said, we're going to make comics.
We're going to illustrate and write stories.
And they made a villain.
Because they're very inspired by Nietzsche.
And many people were at the time.
This was really hot.
Like, yeah, it was defining futurism.
So they were inspired to make Superman.
Well, the problem is, when they made Superman as the Ubermensch, which the only real way we can translate that was to Superman, and so they did, so they made Superman after Nietzsche's Ubermensch.
The first volume did not sell at all.
It was a big, big train wreck.
Nobody bought it because Superman was the evil villain.
Who was telepathic and embodied all of the things that Nietzsche was trying to explain that we humans could be one day if we could transcend our No, it didn't really jive with anybody.
And so they went back to the drawing board.
That's crazy.
Yeah, yeah.
And what's interesting, you can look online and find cool, you can find the pictures that they used.
It was very different when they were making comics, but it was a small comic.
It was printed and it didn't do well at all.
And so they went back to the drawing board and decided what they needed to do was look at what was happening in the world today.
And at that time, they saw the effects of Nazism, being Jewish boys in the suburbs here in Cleveland.
They started to understand more and fear what was going on.
And they also used their next iteration of Superman to reflect how they felt as being Jewish kids in an otherwise not Jewish.
And so that's when they started taking Superman and making him more fallible.
They started giving him a story where he didn't fit in with people in the Midwest, where he had this secret.
Where he also had, there was kryptonite, so he had a weakness.
They understood that.
Then, of course, they really pivoted and started making Superman actually going out and killing the Nazis and going after the Nazis.
Once they took that position, of course, Superman became what it is today.
But initially, it was actually a member of the master race.
And they said, they realized as kids, wait, we can't reinforce this.
What are we doing?
And just, it was a whole thing.
Yeah, so the master race idea comes from the occult.
It comes from this Nietzsche concept, and it comes from the first occult revival, where people were going over and collecting information from the East, bringing it to the West, and developing this idea of the root races that stem from Atlantis and Lemuria and all of these places,
and then you get this master race idea.
And it just starts to turn into what we kind of just now disregard as just Nazi ideology.
But it's important to not really disregard it at all.
It's important that people are more honest about what was happening at the time and not just look at it like some quirk of history that Himmler had some kind of occult castle, but rather realize that the...
That the absolute root of this was not just some sort of hate for a grouping of people, but instead it was a cult-oriented.
And why it's important to know that is because...
People will often say history repeats itself, but it does not repeat itself.
History rhymes.
And if history repeated itself, it would be much easier.
Because when we would look out the window and see a group of brown-shirted Nazis marching down our streets with a flag of a swastika, we would recognize that.
So of course we wouldn't promote anything like that, right?
But history doesn't repeat.
It rhymes.
So there are things happening right now in our world that are exact.
To the Nazi war machine, to the Nazi ideology, all of it.
We're practically living in the Fourth Reich, but a lot of people don't see it because they're looking for those brown shirts and those swastikas.
That is hidden in plain sight because history rhymes.
That's great.
Yeah, I agree 100% with all of that.
Yeah, they're not going to just come point blank in our faces, marching brown shirts down our streets, obviously.
But what can they do?
They start like a...
White nationalist movement or patriotic front movement.
And yeah, I mean, we are living in the Fourth Reich.
It does seem that way.
Yes, and it's a spiritual battle.
What's that, Cricket?
Oh, this notion.
It's been introduced into the popular culture as a whole in quite a few ways.
One of the most interesting ways I can think of is, well, probably one of the most popular games ever made, Final Fantasy VII storyline.
The basis of the story is this evil corporation hunting down the last progenitor of this ancient race that came from what they called the Cetrins,
a proto-species that predated humans that were essentially, well, ubermensch.
And yeah, they were...
It's essentially super powerful because they were able to communicate directly with the life stream of the Earth.
They had a more direct connection to the Earth.
It kind of demonstrates how these concepts get gradually introduced to people who wouldn't normally be accepting of them.
But now, thanks to this...
This softening process, well, maybe now you will accept this.
Maybe that isn't so far-fetched.
Maybe that isn't so ridiculous because you've already been introduced to this concept through stories in your culture.
So that was called The Life in that video game that is called The Life Force?
Yeah, it's the life stream.
Essentially, it's the energy that all life consists of that it then converts back into.
And in that case, it's literally a life stream underneath the Earth.
But the concept, of course, is more of an energetic...
So what's fascinating about that is that is a basically repackaging of the Vril, which the Vril was that same life stream that the Nazi occultists were going after.
Vril is a fictional form of energy.
It was first described in a novel in 1871 called The Coming Race.
And in that novel, Vril is a powerful energy harnessed by an advanced subterranean race called the Vrilia.
And that energy was used for healing.
It could also be used for destruction and all sorts of things, but especially free energy.
And Vril became super popular as a concept in esoteric and occult circles.
And that was...
Something that directly affected the Nazi ideology and their finances, because the people who started the Vril Society ended up going into politics, and they were like a super PAC at the time that got all the money together to fund the initial Nazi party.
So Vril is very important to that concept.
And interestingly enough, when you go back even further...
Not much further, in fairness.
You have the same concept, and that was called animal magnetism and also sometimes called mesmerism.
But that was a term coined by Anton Mesmer, and he proposed that there was a natural energy transference that he called animal magnetism, and it occurred between all living things.
He thought that it was a magnetic fluid, and it could be manipulated to cure illnesses, induce trance-like states, and it led to the groundwork for developing hypnosis, which is why you can be mesmerized.
Theoretic magnetic fluid later was discredited, but that animal magnetism was what Levy was referencing and trying to harness and use in his books on magic.
So Vril, Levy, the occult magnetism, all of these things are speaking about a similar concept that has not even gone away today.
You still have people who are researching this zero-point energy.
Or this dark matter.
Or sometimes they call it a host of different things to further occult it.
But holding on to these ideas, very much like in the video game, they exist, but they're an undercurrent.
Wow. And they go by very different names, but they're all connected.
And as they say in the occult, it's not only hidden in plain sight, but for those who have eyes to see will see it.
No, no, no.
Don't drop.
Please don't drop.
I know.
I'm getting the same thing over here.
Heather, are you still there?
You with us?
Hello? Oh, my God.
Can anybody hear me?
Okay, I can hear you now.
We were just getting to the good part.
You know, let me...
If you can hear it, let me just put it out there, too.
If you want to do the whole interview over again and reschedule and we can work it out, I can be at the studio, maybe that'll help.
I'm totally fine with doing that.
I can squeeze you into something.
I mean, that's fine.
We can continue this.
This will work.
I can splice all this together.
It's fine.
As long as it can work.
Yeah, we can splice it.
I mean, we're 40 minutes in at this point.
When I check everything out, we're done.
I don't know what's getting captured.
I know.
I don't either.
So when it's all done, I'll look at it, what we get.
And then if it's not good, then yeah, I'll email you and see if we can reschedule.
I don't know what's going on with this.
This has never happened to me.
Really? Never.
I've had so many guests and this has never happened.
Yeah, I've done about four or five episodes or something like that.
Nothing like this has happened in any of them.
I've used Riverside before.
I don't use it, but I've had a lot of...
It always gets stuck at 95%.
I'm not having any problems with the reverse side either, so maybe you never know.
Maybe they're listening.
I mean, you just mentioned that guy's name was Mesmer, and I thought, wow, that's another pop culture reference.
Oh, yeah.
And now this is a more obscure one, because you see...
This comes from Elden Ring, which is a game that doesn't really overtly tell you its story.
There's parts that play out and parts that don't.
But this part's pretty explicit.
Literally the main villain of the DLC that just came out is named Mesmer.
How much more on the nose can you get than that?
And it's a game about an analog of Baphomet in the first place where a goddess...
Splits herself into male and female to break the cycle of life and then proceeds to work against herself as the male counterpart as two parts that are simultaneously conflicting and also whole.
One working to repair the earth.
Are you sure this isn't real life?
Yeah, this is all a game storyline.
I'm just giving you game storyline info here.
Yeah, see, the thing about this is some parts of this are spelled out explicitly in the story, but to actually learn the story of this game, you really got to look in things like item descriptions and whatnot because it's really obscure stuff.
But yeah, it spells out that part of the story pretty explicitly in cutscenes and stuff.
It tells you all this.
So yeah, Amarica is a very, very direct analog for Bafomet.
In being this contradictory creature that's both male and female at the same time and works for and against itself.
Wow. Yeah, like I said, sometimes things are hidden in plain sight, but another one of the cult references is that it's there for those who have eyes to see and the ears to hear.
So they...
Not for the profane.
Yeah, yeah.
And then they said...
And then they summon the Elden Beast, which when I look that up is also an alchemical reference to some concept I was reading called the Rebdis, which is these two conflicting parts then coming together to be powered by a dragon.
The Elden Beast is depicted as a giant ethereal dragon.
Yeah, so that's interesting.
I was about to tell you about that particular symbol that actually comes from the...
Initially, it was inspired by the story Plato told in the symposium about where we get the idea of the soulmate.
And it was this idea of us having a twin flame.
And you see that kind of thrown around in New Age circles.
But this idea of the soulmate comes from the concept of this rebus or rebus.
It originates from the story in the symposium.
Also then the alchemical tradition more strongly, and it symbolized the goal of the creation of the philosopher's stone and the attainment of the opposite of unions.
It comes from the Latin resbina, meaning double thing, and it represents this hermaphroditic...
That is sort of represented then in Baphomet as well.
You can see this like over and over again, the idea of this great androgynous being because it signifies the reconciliation of dualities.
And so in this myth, this rebus creature, shall we say, begins the pursuit of the philosopher's stone.
And that's that legendary substance that's supposed to transform base metals into gold and grant immortality.
So it is androgynous, it's going after this, and the union of these elements, the male and female aspects of sun and moon, sulfur and mercury, active and passive principles, consciousness and unconsciousness even.
Through doing that, you are supposedly going to then get the harmony and balance needed to achieve what they call the great work, or the magnum opus of alchemy.
So it's a whole thing.
It symbolizes this integration.
So in some ways...
The rebus can also be considered Baphomet, or probably more aptly, Baphomet is a redrawing of the rebus.
So it's a metaphor for the inner work required to achieve that wholeness.
But it does come from a little bit of the idea of the symposium being that there was a creature that was created, and it was so powerful in its unity that it rivaled God.
And when God saw that, He felt a little uneasy and threatened.
And so he split that creature into two halves, male and female.
And so that weakened humanity is what we now would think of as humanity.
It weakened us.
And so we will not achieve godlike status until we're unified.
And in the romantic sense, it just means that...
The man and the woman in like a love kind of sense that we are always searching for our soulmate, that we're never quite whole until we have that other person because we were initially bonded as one and then God struck us down as two.
And so that's kind of a cute.
Remember in the symposium, it wasn't necessarily this great big lecture hall and they were teaching astounding knowledge.
They were having a philosopher party and they were getting drunk.
And they were joking and telling stories.
And so that's where that story comes from.
While profound nonetheless, it served as an inspiration for the alchemist to really draw upon that more, to explain the strange nature of the duality of the human experience.
And of course, when you're trying to overcome nature, and you're going to look at nature in the context of that as being God, and you're saying, no, I will become God, then you have to reverse nature.
You have to conquer nature, and so you have to make the androgynous.
You have to bring together light and darkness.
You have to mix things up and put them back together in your will.
It's really interesting how philosophy comes from a bunch of drunk men getting around.
Making jokes and thinking aloud, you know?
It's a lot of fun, huh?
And that's where some of the best ideas come from, right?
I guess, yeah.
How many good ideas, well, maybe not great ideas, but how many interesting ideas have happened because maybe someone sat around a campfire drinking or smoking or doing whatever.
They're more willing to share them then.
Yes, exactly.
You kind of touched on this a little bit.
Goat of Mendes.
So it was a Greek name for ancient Egyptian city of Jedet, I believe.
I don't know how to pronounce that.
But there's an account by Herodotus.
I don't even know how to pronounce his name.
That the god of Mendes was depicted with a goat's face and legs.
And Herodotus relates how all male goats were held in great reverence by the Mendesians.
And how in his time, a woman was...
A woman publicly copulated with a goat.
And that was the story behind that, apparently.
But I wanted to ask you, because you mentioned Pan was the deity in Greece, and in Britain it was Herni, I believe.
And then the Celtic god Cernunnos was similar to Levi's depiction of Baphomet.
But were there any other similar equivalents in the Greek or Roman cultures?
Like how the Greek Artemis is the equivalent to the Roman Diana and Hades is Pluto, Kronos, Saturn, etc.
Like throughout history, were there those equivalents?
Or did Baphomet simply just become a thing with the Templars?
The phenomenon that is in anthropology and history termed as religious syncretism is something to take into consideration.
And what you'll see is a clear...
Link to some of these images.
You see this way more apparently with the Greco-Roman world where we have different names for the same god and we can kind of use them interchangeably.
Aphrodite or Venus.
But that wasn't just a Greco-Roman phenomenon.
You have Ishtar.
You have Inanna and Sumerian.
You have Ishtar.
To the Babylonians.
And then you have that become Venus, Aphrodite, all of that.
So what you start to see, Isis, of course, you start to see all of these gods in this pagan sense have influenced each other and each area will have their own version of it.
And so that's just a wide tradition of what's called religious syncretism.
It means that it is.
And you'll hear people sometimes try to have gotcha moments with...
Maybe a Christian faith or something like that to say, oh, look, you're worshiping Mithra or whatever.
And it's really not a surprise because of this phenomena where people over time go, whether it's by their conquering and then they bring their gods with them and they're adopted through assimilation or otherwise, you do just have this confluence of shared deities.
So sometimes they don't get shared perfectly because there are great distances between people.
But there are associations that are made.
And some of those are still mysterious.
You could say, well, how come?
You know, all the way over here, they're thinking in that way and over there.
And that could go into some sort of a question that would probably be, I think, best answered by Carl Jung.
But aside from that, just at a practical sense, you do see this relationship.
I don't know that it's so direct as in this is just the equivalent here, but I just think that over time they meld together.
So you mentioned the Egyptian god, a ram deity associated with fertility in the soul.
So Herodotus, the ancient Greek historian, yes, he talked about how the Egyptians had this ram as the sacred animal.
So it was not just there.
The god was...
This particular ram was believed to embody Ba or soul and that was the specific soul of Osiris.
So later you'll see that In a Hebrew sense, you'll notice something that we are maybe familiar with, the scapegoat.
Oh, yeah.
The goat, again, appears as this important symbol.
And again, if you just look at it in a very practical way, they were herding goats.
Animal husbandry, goats were very important in that.
And they're still in the area of a food item.
It's still something that is a product of animal domestication.
But the goat...
If you don't have a goat equivalent, but if you're importing these ideas still, you'll look around you and say, well, wait, what do I have that's like a deer?
The deer is in the northern area.
So what it means is that, and some people dispute this, and this is just where I have a problem with mainstream, and not all of mainstream.
It's very selective.
But this idea of diffusion where...
Ideas spread.
And while they weren't able to go viral so fast, they did spread at an alarming rate once people had shared language.
And that would go as far back as 6,000 years of cuneiform.
People started trading and learning the language of trade.
They would have people trading all the way from Sumer to the Indus Valley and even China.
It would just take a lot longer.
And so where you might only have relics left behind in the archaeological record of maybe one strange piece.
That was comprised of elements only found very far away.
The ideas were more sustaining.
You could internalize those ideas and then change them and take them, and that's oral tradition.
So over time, it wouldn't need to have an actual transport of items like pottery or gods or idols.
It would just be the ideas spreading.
And if you don't have the things around you, you would just compensate and say, well, my version of that could be the deer or seronos.
And so they do look alike because they have things that you look around and identify as being like.
And it's not just so basic that way.
It was considered deeply a scientific and natural and philosophical thing to observe.
It would be considered like a virtue or a humor.
Like they had an essence of that.
It wasn't just a, oh look, they both have horns.
It was that carried the essence.
So it was a...
Objective confirmation that these two things were like.
So clearly it had to be like Pan or like the goat.
And so it's not a coincidence at all.
I mean, that definitely makes sense.
Okay. And leading into that, how the whole just, I don't want to say like hijacking of a story and using it for their own benefit and narrative, but like in terms of how Baphomet's gone through this series of steps to become what it is.
The whole, like, history of Jesus Christ.
I don't know if you've read Bart Ehrman's book, or I think, who am I thinking of?
The Jesus Mysteries.
The whole story about how Jesus Christ was not the original story.
Like, it predates Christianity, like Zoroastrianism.
They have the story of a man who's born of a virgin who dies, is resurrected three days later, and dies for our sins.
So that story has been used throughout history, which predates our idea of Jesus Christ.
What do you know about any of that?
Well, yes.
I'm not familiar with the book.
Perhaps the Jesus mystery sounds familiar, but I'm not sure of the authors.
I think I mixed up the author and book.
It's a different author.
Timothy Frecke.
That's who it is.
Well, as far as this thesis that Jesus may not be a unique historical event or instead like a retelling of earlier pagan myth, this is something that...
I have found to be the case, and I will say, just for full clarity, I consider myself a Christian.
I was raised Catholic, although I'm not now.
Most people probably wouldn't consider me a Christian, given my more Gnostic views, but that's for them to judge.
But from my point of view, I take a different look at it.
So I am comfortable and fine with the historic fact that many of the...
Motifs and associations with Jesus in the stories were developed and as a composite figure drawing from narratives of ancient deities like Osiris, Dionysus, and Mithras especially.
They have similar stories of birth, death, resurrection.
And so Jesus clearly follows a common mythological template.
So that at first could make somebody who is maybe a Bible literalist very uncomfortable, very upset.
It's another one of those Christmas time rolls around.
And you see those memes that say Mithra is the reason for the season.
And it's like, well, a lot of these gotcha moments.
But I don't look at it that way.
I look at it as something a little more...
It's esoteric, if you will.
That there is a reason that these have all syncretized and that we're still, to this day, many people are celebrating, say, Christmas.
It transcends the historical figure of Yeshua or Isa to people of the Islamic faith.
There is much reason to believe that Jesus, the figure, did exist just in a historical context.
That's a different question then.
The nature of Jesus, what happened, the mythological story.
And so if you set the archaeology, the history to what the Romans said about this figure, it looks pretty clear that Jesus, the figure, the man, existed.
But then the question about the mythological story, that's where it gets...
Clearly different.
And if you're a person of faith, you'll just take it for faith and just believe it.
If you're a person who wants to debunk something, you'll just point to all of those inconsistencies and say, there, job.
What we're doing is guilty of that Nietzsche analysis again, where it's like, God is dead, hooray!
Or, no, God is not dead, and we have to resurrect him, or whatever.
There's a third way.
And the third way is to understand that this is yet another occult blind.
This is a way that it's not to discount the power of this figure, but it's like to say myth.
The word myth gets people very upset.
But it should only, in my view, make somebody upset when you equate myth to lie.
Or deception.
When myth itself is, I would argue, the ultimate truth.
Now, there's a problem there when you think, okay, mythology.
Well, we have Medusa.
She has like hair of snakes.
That's not true.
No, that's not factual.
So if you look at mythology and you consider it to be rational, well...
That's a little bit bonkers.
I don't think many people would want you to take a rational viewpoint of mythology because it's just not rational.
But if something's not rational, it doesn't inherently make it irrational.
So it's not just the duality of these opposites, again, where it's either rational or irrational.
It's a third thing.
It is what's called pre-rational.
That means that the myth, myth is symbol.
Myth is something almost Unable to be articulated, which is why it's so difficult to articulate these truths without strange pictures and stories and whatnot, and we just keep retelling over and over and over again.
Myth is a different thing that comes from the pre-rational part of our brain.
It's the language of dreams and symbols.
And feelings and all of the things where if you're struggling to find just the right word, there's still cognitive processes happening right there that we don't even perceive.
That is the world of myth.
It is pre-rational.
What happens later is it comes to the forefront of our mind, the forethought, which Prometheus, the Greek god, was the god of forethought.
That's what his name meant, was the god of forethought, which is also the equivalent to Lucifer.
The equivalent to Lightbearer, all of these different characters that you see over and over again, even Enki from the Sumerian lore, that we have forethought, which is the enlightening principle that rebels against the primordial chaos of that pre-rational state and makes manifest the true logos,
which is the logos is the word and articulation of that pre-rationality.
That sounds a little weird, but mythology is the Is the cultural artifact of those cognitive processes that makes it at a level so deep and true that we can't even observe it unless we struggle, like children holding crayons to draw a very low-resolution picture of what we're actually talking about.
Myth is very valuable.
It transcends space and time because you can listen to...
The stories or read the stories from people cross cultures and cross time and you could still be moved to tears.
And that's literally magic.
It's magic because magic in an academic definition is action from a distance.
It's when a magician wants to invoke their will and make something happen, but they don't have to be present for it.
And if you've ever read a book from a dead author and that book made you laugh or made you cry, that's magic.
That is the magic because they didn't have to be there.
Their words, their articulation of their precognitive processes, the depths of where mythology lies, it's able to transcend time and space and you can react to it.
They have power over you that way.
So mythology, when we just say it in the context now is, well, it's just a big fable, it's a lie, it's fiction, and we just throw it away.
What we're not recognizing is it is the ultimate truth.
Not fact, but truth.
And those deeper truths are the things that we need to look for when we look at religion or philosophy or any of these belief sets.
Because to pick parts of the Bible out and to say, well, that's not fact or that's not true, fine.
Why is it persisted?
It's persisted because it resonates on some level.
And people who make art know this.
There are people who are very much aware of this.
It is what's called the monomyth.
Carl Jung understood it.
He inspired.
Joseph Campbell later was inspired by this.
Joseph Campbell was a very good friend of George Lucas.
And George Lucas got Joseph Campbell's help in creating his stories because he didn't want Star Wars to just be some kind of fun story.
He wanted it to be an enduring myth.
And what's the difference between just a story and a myth?
The myth is this cycle that we're trapped in that we have to go on over and over again to try to continually solve this sort of weird inherited trauma that we keep having over and over again.
That's so crazy.
You know?
So it's pretty crazy.
It's the hero's journey.
And Jesus was the avatar of this time period, the Piscean Age, who represented the hero's journey.
It's the monomyth.
So awesome.
So awesome.
And this is why I said earlier, That you were a provocative public speaker.
You're just on point.
On point.
I thought I almost lost you there for a second.
Yeah, we can't discount Mythos.
I mean, a few thousand years from now, Mythos is all we're going to have about this era.
Or any era, really.
We are already creating our own mythos.
Benjamin Franklin zapped himself flying a kite.
George Washington chopped down a cherry tree and refused to lie about it.
Those are modern mythos of the American era that I can point to.
I can pretty much guarantee it did not happen.
But at the same time, when we look back to these times, those stories are going to gradually morph into our version of our heroes and whatnot.
And I really love this concept of resonance from dissonance.
Because it really demonstrates how this scary, terrifying, quote, evil concept has just been twisted for the negative.
When you're describing conquering nature, what I don't hear is necessarily that you want to defeat nature.
You don't want to take nature down.
You're not there to kill nature.
You're not set apart from it.
You conquer nature by taking your place in it at the top as a part of nature, not by setting yourself apart as its adversary.
So it really demonstrates...
How you can use the same concept and simply by spinning the energies one way or the other create a positive or a negative effect out of it.
It's very fascinating.
Absolutely. It is.
And I think that's the reason that you see a lot of the rivalries between occultists like Wade or like Levy or later Crowley and all the...
People he fought with and even L. Ron Hubbard and Anton LaVey and some of those darker figures that were all connected.
You see this because...
People had varying viewpoints about what that meant.
There's these powers, perhaps, and maybe we can harness those energies.
But what does it mean to overcome nature?
Are we still part of nature or are we outside of it?
And that's maybe the counting how many angels are dancing on a pin.
But those are the types of things those people were involved and concerned themselves with.
They were concerned with the minutia of the philosophy of magic.
And some people had one view, other people had another.
White magic, black magic, et cetera.
So bringing it back to Baphomet, is Baphomet particularly a satanic symbol?
And if not, how does it get its reputation, generally speaking?
Because it seems to have like an evil incantation to it or something.
It does.
So the initial History of it being associated with the sabbatic goat, that can give people this general intuitive feeling that it's satanic because it is, if you just consider what Satan is,
it is the adversary.
So anything that would be, so in the Abrahamic view, that would be, you know, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam, you have this view of Lucifer who is Not the same.
It's the spirit of rebellion, but it is the light bringer.
Lucifer started as an angel, beautiful angel of light and music, and was cast down in a rebellion.
This is also incarnate in Enki of the Sumerians, and this is just another one of these ideas over and over again, as I mentioned, Prometheus.
But then you have Satan, who is a different figure altogether and is mostly linked to, I would say, the Egyptian...
Gods of punishment.
Some have linked Satan to Sekhmet.
So there's a difference there and difference in understanding.
And so over time, those figures just get put into one because they're close enough in concept that they are anti the governing body.
So you have this evil figure, this opposing force.
And so that is what you start to identify as evil in that dogmatic sense.
So over time, this Baphomet symbol, Being that it was an occult symbol, initially you could look at it like it's spooky, it's satanic, I just kind of feel it because I see those horns, you know, we just have that.
But the modern depiction of Baphomet with that goat head that we talked about with Eliphas Levy, that represented the duality again.
But later, so it did have an opposing force, but this was an opposition that was maybe a little more celebrated.
Like a Promethean spirit.
But then, much later, we have the Church of Satan.
And that Baphomet symbol is used by the Church of Satan to promote Satanic philosophy, which is seeded in the rejection of traditional religious dogma.
And so the Church of Satan, founded by Anton LaVey in 1966, started using the symbol of Baphomet and the sigil of Baphomet, which features that inverted pentagram with the goat.
A goat head in the center.
So I'm sure listeners can Google that and they'll recognize that that symbol looks very spooky.
It's sometimes something you'll see on charms and necklaces at Hot Topic or what have you.
But that became the symbol to represent.
Satanism and the official Church of Satan.
So the reason for that too is that it was used in rituals as that representation to show and promote the principles of individualism, self-empowerment, and the rebellion against conventional religious and moral norms.
Then there was a Baphomet statue, and there's actually been...
A couple of these popping up.
Baphomet is not worshipped as a deity.
Now this might come as a surprise to some people because it seems to be so.
But technically the satanic church does not worship Baphomet as a deity.
It uses it as a symbol to represent the human and natural instincts of embracing someone's true self.
And it's promoted as a metaphor.
So it sounds really nice.
And on that level, it doesn't seem like it's a bad thing at all.
You know, whatever.
But at the same time, what you're seeing is how they're using this is deliberately to provoke and be provocative.
So then there's the question, well, if you really do have these...
You know, promotional, rational self-interest and all of this, then maybe just try to get along with people.
Don't be so provocative and what have you.
But that's just what they're doing and it makes the news and it reinforces, it keeps reinforcing the idea that Baphomet is associated with the Church of Satan.
Satan is clearly the one that's against God and all the good things.
Ergo, the Church of Satan worships Baphomet and that is what...
We have here now is this.
And that's by design.
That's by design because it's in the tradition of embracing the Promethean-Luciferian spirit and also antagonizing those who don't feel that they want to rebel against nature, but instead they lament the loss of Nietzsche's God.
I've always thought of the concept of the devil as being...
Or rather the sataniel as being basically the dissident thought, the desire to ascend before one is prepared to.
Because essentially what Satan's original sin was, was not that he wanted to become like God, but rather that he was not ready to take that place, and he wanted it now.
It's not the desire to go on and upward.
But the desire to ghost there before one is ready.
So, essentially, to force what cannot be forced.
If people want a little less scary depiction of Baphomet, here's another pop culture reference.
Think of the Great Forest Spirit from Princess Mononoke, a creature that...
Every step it takes, the plants below it grow, and then as it walks away, the plants die out behind it.
It's a creature with a human face, a deer's body.
It's essentially the Japanese version of Baphomet, is really what it is.
Essentially, the creature is presented as a neutral one that only turns evil when it loses its head and can no longer...
And can no longer reconcile rationally with what it is.
You see a lot of the similar themes continue through all sorts of modern stories and film and even games.
It just is a testament to the enduring core of myth.
And that monster is actually compared frequently to the Elden Beast from Elden Ring, which is then compared to the Euribus, which is the dragon from...
That myth, which is a celestial dragon made of the ether, essentially.
They depict it as essentially being made out of the ether and the stars.
Yes, I was going to say how many Baphomet statues there are.
I mean, that's when I mentioned these.
I'm going to list them out really quick.
These are all in, like, state capitol grounds, right?
The one in Florida.
It's Florida State Capitol in Tallahassee.
There's one there.
There's one in Oklahoma.
That one, Mike Ritzy, a public politician from Tulsa, he privately commissioned for that to be there.
And let's see, where else?
Arkansas, Iowa.
I mean, they're everywhere.
And why do we have these statues, Baphomet statues, in state capitals?
Well, that is the attempt of the Church of Satan to provoke...
To try to make a political point, it's an objection to the use of maybe more traditional Christian symbolism or even monotheistic symbolism or any kind of religious symbolism.
You'll see them do that in response to having a nativity scene up at Christmas.
They've tried to say, well, you have a nativity scene and we need the Baphomet right beside it.
And so they're doing that to be provocative.
They're doing that to prove a point.
And I think it's on one level.
This is why it's a problem in the court is because it is a question of free speech.
The more energy we give to it, the more of a problem it is.
When you have politicians who are actually going and commissioning these works, it shows you that they are also looking to sow seeds of chaos.
And it's just really irresponsible in my view.
But aside from that...
Very much.
Very much so.
Yeah. So aside from that, they're testing the limits of our, as a country, they're testing the limits of our own dogma, our nationalistic dogma, so ideas of free speech.
And this is what they do.
They are the ones who tempt, antagonize, they go against something.
And even in a legalistic framework, when you understand the role of Satan in the Christian Bible as being the Prosecutor of things on behalf of God.
So God lets Satan loose as the one who tempts and prosecutes.
And it's looked at, especially in the Judeo worldview, it is more of a legal kind of thing because they were the Jewish people or the people of the law.
And that comes out of this rich tradition of Legalistic viewpoints and trying to order society.
And so it's an attack on the idea of law at all, on both the national sense and religious sense.
And they're trying to just push those limits because that's how they feel that they are embodying the principle that they uphold, which is this satanic, rebellious, anarchist kind of viewpoint.
My thought is this.
It is provocative.
It does make people upset.
That's what they want.
So if somebody is really against this, the best thing they can do is sort of just not give it the energy.
And they'll keep trying, but you better believe that if over time they start to put up another Baphomet and nobody cares or nobody commissions it and it just doesn't get the news coverage, then that's going to be something they look at as not achieving their goal and they're going to go to something else.
But for now, it looks like it's working for them because people get so upset and they...
I think somebody in one of those locations you mentioned, they went in and they physically destroyed it.
And I think they got arrested.
Yeah, I think the one in Iowa.
Yeah. So that's not good because that's sort of what an agent...
That's what they want.
Yes, that's an agent of chaos.
They're looking to uphold chaos magic, which is where you just, you have to divide things up in order to put it together in your own...
So that's part of why I was motivated to write the book was to demystify.
And so perhaps for people who may be interested in Baphomet, at least they'll know what they're dealing with.
And two, for people who maybe they're in a situation where there is somebody who is interested in putting up a Baphomet statue and they're not happy with it, maybe they could try to understand it and not give it that energy.
Just like you would tell a child on the playground if the bully is bullying you.
There's a couple ways to deal with it.
Maybe just don't give them that negative energy.
Or sometimes, unfortunately, we do live in a time where it is best to just punch them pretty good and they won't bully you again.
But we're not able to really do that without great peril in a civilized society.
So the best thing we can do is just try our best to ignore it and make it disempowered.
Yeah, man, that makes so much sense.
It's difficult, but it keeps self-control.
And what the occultists try to convey to each other and what they try to cultivate is ultimate control of yourself.
That's why they use methods like tantric sex.
They use fasting.
There's all these different ways to harness that animal magnetism or the Vril or whatever it is that they're trying to harness.
They believe it's best harnessed through self-denial and ultimate of like self-control.
So they really love it when they see somebody who is losing control, because then you, in your viewpoint, you're losing your power.
And it's not just a theory.
It's that they can now cannibalize that.
They can, they can take that.
I know this is overplayed, but energy vampires, essentially.
We feed off of that.
This is why I've always emphasized that hating other people only loses you energy.
Because they don't feel it, but you feel the harm from it.
And because of that, you ultimately only end up hurting yourself with that kind of attitude, sadly.
But I could see why someone would view putting it there as transgressive simply due to, well, that's...
Pretty common tradition throughout a lot of ancient times, converting is essentially going to the conquered people and saying, see, our God is tough.
You should join us.
And then a lot of times what the pagans would do is they wouldn't necessarily convert entirely.
They would just add that God to their pantheon because, I mean, hey, if he's that strong, you might as well just pray to him too.
So what a lot of them did was they would just incorporate Jesus into Easter and all their holidays.
And over time, as people intermarried and the traditions merged, it all just became a big jumble.
How did the rabbit become the thing for Easter?
How did the rabbit become the thing for Easter?
Yeah, why is it a rabbit?
Well, a few reasons, really.
A clear one, probably, is that rabbits are very fertile, we'll say.
For Easter, it is a time of fertility, and that's been something that's shared by so many people.
The rabbit itself is a prolific breeder.
It's primarily in Western culture.
Rabbits have always been known for that sort of thing.
And Christianity later, it was co-opted sort of for the same reasons Cricket is referencing.
A lot of these things just come together in a big jumble.
But the Easter bunny itself originated among German Lutherans.
We get a lot of our...
Holiday celebrations from Lutheranism, which is kind of interesting.
But aside from that, they had a whole tradition that the Germans brought over as immigrants in the, I think, 1700s that gave us this idea of the Easter Bunny, and then it just spread.
But it was an Osterhaus, and that was just part of their tradition that they did.
But ultimately, it was...
Just associated with it because of their ability to breed many times and have large litters.
And the eggs?
Is that a Rosicrucianism thing?
The egg is a symbol of fertility.
Yes, there is definitely the Rosicrucian, but it does go even further back to that.
But it is associated strongly with the Rosicrucian because that does come out of the same time period and same region as...
The Lutheranism.
I mean, they're different, but it was also a type of the original protest movement or Reformation movement.
So in Germany, you start getting a lot of this different alchemical knowledge and views on things and a lot more literacy.
And that's when they start saying, wait a minute, hold on with this.
Roman Christian perspective, and they start bringing more of this pagan idea.
They want all these pagan traditions back, but in a more Christian way.
And not just pagan, but they thought of it as like a Gothic, Germanic pagan that was more so aligned with Gothic Christianity.
So there was this whole resurgence of Germanic thinking around that time.
So a lot of those symbols come from that, including the symbols in Rosicrucianism, because they were all just another way to...
Represent some of those same subversive ideas that were coming up in protest to the Catholic faith.
But yeah, and clearly it's something that represents the fertility because that's where babies, baby chickens come from and whatnot.
But there's also an association, deeply held association with the egg as a representation of the cosmos.
So you have the cosmic egg.
Yeah. It's just a source of life.
Okay. I never really looked into Easter and how that became a thing and why the bunny was chosen and the egg and stuff.
I mean, this kind of makes sense fertility-wise.
And, like, Easter, because that was, like, the old New Year, wasn't it?
Like, April?
Way back in the day, that was, like, the beginning of the year?
Yes. We always dismiss, you know, ancient.
People's tech knowledge.
But if you think about it, quasars are effectively shaped like eggs, really, aren't they?
I mean, they're ovular.
They expand from a core center to an outward.
Yeah. The origin of stars are egg-shaped.
They come out from an ovular origin.
So, Heather, I wanted to ask you this.
I really wanted to ask you this.
As an alternative archaeologist, you know, going against the grain or going against the mainstream, have you...
Had any, you know, issues with colleagues or whoever else in academia who view alternative perspectives as being quacky?
Oh, 100%.
Yeah. It was a rhetorical question, but I, you know, can you explain those to us?
Sure, sure.
100%. Although I will say there are many more.
People than you may expect who are interested in this or curious in these ideas.
They're maybe even embracing them, but they do so in secret for fear of ruining their career.
But there are people.
Now, the first time I was introduced to these ideas, I was in an archaeology program.
Well, let me take it all the way back.
The very first time, it had to have been when I first listened to the show Coast to Coast AM.
And I ran away from home.
I dropped out of school when I was a teenager, 16 years old.
I'm traveling the country and I'm pretty lost.
I'm doing van life before that was a cool thing to do.
I was really, it's not very fun and you do get lonely.
And there wasn't, we didn't have podcasts and cool things like that back then.
So I was stuck with late night radio.
And it became a source of escapism for me because I didn't have anybody to talk to.
And this was interesting.
It was wacky, but that's what made it interesting.
And so I would listen to Art Bell, talk to all sorts of different people from a guy who claimed he was a reincarnated dolphin.
He was an alien.
From Alien Abductee to Michio Kaku, another, like, unreputable scientist.
And I was enthralled.
So I was always interested in these alternative beliefs.
And I remember thinking to myself, wow, how amazing would it be to be able to have discussions, meaningful discussions like this with interesting people.
But then, you know, I'm 16 and I'm runaway.
So it was just not in my...
Future at that moment.
So I go and I live my life and I'm always just listening to those things and open to those ideas.
And it just was something that was a fascination.
When I get into school, I do end up going back to school and going to a community college and starting at the very, very bottom.
And I end up going into an archaeology program because I had one professor who was my art history professor.
She commented on my paper and asked me to meet with her after class.
I wrote a paper about the origin and basically it was a paper about the importance of the art of the Leskow Caves and more so questioning what we could learn from consciousness about that and what it meant.
For the development of human consciousness, essentially, and the motivation for human creativity.
And I put a lot into the paper.
Looking back on the paper, it was as a professor now.
I mean, I could see why she was complimentary, but it didn't matter.
The fact that she reached out to me and told me that I really had a good idea, she was interested in seeing me develop that idea further.
That meant the world to me because before going into that class, I had only gotten to, I only finished ninth grade.
And while I wasn't a very good student and I had scholarships and I really wanted to go to school, my life as a student wouldn't allow for that.
So I was at a disadvantage and I'm at this college and she tells me I had something and that was just deeply important.
So I dropped everything at that point.
I was in some sort of just generic.
And I said, no, I'm following this.
This means something to me.
And I followed my interests and I found myself in an archaeology class.
In that archaeology class, literally the first week, on the board, written were names of what they called pseudo-archaeologists.
And I recognized some of those names.
I recognized there was Graham Hancock, there was Michael Cremo, and others.
And I thought...
Wait, I know those names.
Those people have been on coast to coast.
Oh, this should be interesting, right?
And when it was told to us that our assignment was to debunk them, I didn't really know what to do about that because I didn't have enough information to debunk them.
I was an undergraduate student here at a community college.
I had no credentials to do that.
And I wasn't really even taught the methodology yet how to do that.
So I thought, well, I'll give it a go.
What year was this?
Um... Man, that's tough.
2002 or 2003.
Okay. Yeah, it was after 9-11.
I think 2003.
I want to say 2003.
I was just wondering, like, how...
Good the internet would have been at that point in time for your research, but yeah.
Yeah, it was alright.
Probably more accurate.
Yeah, it probably was more accurate for sure.
Oh yeah, it was totally fine.
But I was so down and out in those points.
I was using a library internet.
It was just something.
But yeah, so it was an interesting time.
And I thought, well, I don't know that I can properly debunk these people.
And I thought, and that's a strange assignment because I really just thought we would be...
Talking about actual archaeology.
Give us the primer here.
What is this even all about?
Help me out here.
So the professor did go into a little bit of an explanation eventually about why we're doing this.
Because in the textbook, it had a whole chapter devoted to pseudo-archaeology.
And it started telling about why we shouldn't listen to pseudo-archaeology.
And it faced value that would almost make sense if you accept the premise that there's pseudo-archaeology.
Of course you shouldn't just...
Fall into a bunch of crazy lies and sensationalism.
But that wasn't the thing.
It wasn't what they were talking about.
They didn't say, hey, there's this boogeyman called pseudo-archaeology, watch out for it.
They were saying, nothing can stray from our narrative.
And they were saying, you have to protect the discipline.
You have to protect the, almost like a guild, because otherwise we'd have no credibility.
And then another assignment after that was that we had to study the American Anthropological Association Code of Ethics, and not just, of course, learn that and know that, but we were deeply tested on that.
The whole focus was a primer first on making sure we were fully indoctrinated into the club, into the mindset that if anybody deviated from this plan, They would have no career.
Not only would they have no career, but they would be ostracized and maybe even attacked.
And I thought, well, that's a lot.
That's heavy to put on someone who's just signing up for the class.
The whole class would be about that.
And of course, then I got more involved in it and I saw that at conferences, a shadow that was always cast on everything was fighting pseudo-archaeology because it will destroy our credibility.
And I thought, there's just an unhealthy focus on that.
And in some ways, I thought, why don't we engage pseudo-archaeologists?
So there was a time in my...
Later, in a different...
When I went to the state school that I transferred to afterward, that we had Archaeology Day at the Cleveland Museum of Natural History, and the professors got together, and the...
People in the lab got together and I was part of the lab and I was a teaching assistant.
And we were tasked with having a table and promoting archaeology day and getting people interested.
And I was supposed to make the print collateral and the marketing materials for it.
And so they were just like, get it done, meet us there.
I didn't run any of the artwork past them or anything.
I just went and did it.
And I showed up at the day.
I set up the table.
And nothing happened until the director of the program comes over.
And he is livid.
And it was very awkward.
He didn't do anything.
We just got through it.
But we had a big meeting afterward.
And I was reprimanded heavily.
Oh, man.
I was reprimanded because my flyers.
I think somewhere on an old flash drive, I have these flyers.
I have to dig it up because if you see the flyers, you'll be like, why was that such a big deal?
All it was, was some like a stock photo kind of thing of some bones and they were a little bit buried in sand.
I mean, if you can imagine like a cheap stock photo and there was cool writing and like a lantern was nearby and there was script on the wall and it was really dark toned and it had some lettering on it that said, you know, want to have real adventure.
Come study archaeology.
I won't name the college, but at the State University.
I mean, you could probably put it together where I'm from and where I am.
So at the State University, come study archaeology and solve ancient mysteries.
So I hyped it up that way.
It was literally an event that was geared towards the public at the museum to get young people interested in our summer programs.
So this was supposed to be fun.
And what I was told was I was sensationalizing.
We do not want anything to do with something that looked like Indiana Jones.
Because I think I used the Indiana Jones font.
Oh my God.
Just thinking Indiana Jones.
We didn't want to be Indiana Jones.
Because doesn't that get attention?
That's what we were supposed to do, was get the kids to come over to the table, sign up for the programs.
And they said, absolutely not.
And they said, if I did anything like that, again, first of all, maybe they shouldn't have trusted the teaching assistant to make the things unchecked, but they learned their lesson and then everything was micromanaged.
Yeah, that was just one tiny example.
Later it was worse.
Later I found out that the whole lab I was working for was a money laundering scheme.
And I found out this was very common and we weren't actually having a community archaeology program after all.
We were taking grant money from the state and funneling it through different means so that the professors could have summer money.
It just got worse and worse from there until I couldn't take it anymore and I thought maybe there is no home for me here and I reached out to one of those authors that I heard on Coast to Coast and I saw written on the board and that was Michael Cremo.
Michael Cremo is the author of a book called Forbidden Archaeology, a giant tome of a very interesting, well put together, well cited scientific research on out of place artifacts and he argued for The idea of extreme human antiquity.
And while I may not agree 100% with his findings, I was just captivated by the professionalism and the depth of work that he and his partner, Richard Thompson, who's passed now, they put this work together and it was just stunning.
So I reached out to him via email, never thinking he would respond.
And he responded.
And I told him all about my issues at the school.
And I said, I just think I want to give this up completely and maybe just start doing pseudo-archaeology.
And he wrote me back.
And with the wisdom of a grandfather, he said, essentially, be cool, stay in school.
But he didn't dismiss me altogether.
He basically said, realistically, this is the crossroads.
You can stay in academia and you can push the envelope.
Ever so slightly.
And just know that that's the impact you'll have.
But you can leave, and you can go far and away, but you'll lack the ability to understand what you're looking at, to argue the sources.
You'll also be discredited, and you'll not be able to really push any envelope or change any minds.
You'll just play to the crowd that wants pseudo-archaeology.
You basically take your choice.
And I think in that moment, just the fact that he opened that line of communication was enough for me to feel inspired and think, you know, I have someone on my side.
So I went back to school that next day, and I looked at all these people in the lab that I worked with, just all of this, and I thought, you know, I'm going to reframe this narrative, and I am a double agent.
I am a spy.
I'm going to...
Take all of this information.
I'm going to understand.
I'm going to learn.
And I'm going to get out of here and not join this guild.
But instead, I'm going over to the world of pseudo-archaeology.
I'm going to join the dark side.
I'm going to bring with me all of the treasures that academia still does offer.
And so that's what I've tried to do and I've endeavored ever since.
And I'm glad I did because I don't...
I mean...
I value education.
I have another doctorate in education.
I've been a professor, and I really think that education is very important.
But the academic-industrial complex is what the problem is.
Oh, yeah.
So I succeeded in that sense, and I'm very happy.
Michael Cremo is a friend to this day.
He's been on my show recently, even.
Very dear friend.
Spoken at conferences together.
And it's come full circle.
So much so that I'll never forget the night that I was on Coast to Coast for promoting one of my first books.
And the thought occurred to me, wow, you know, as a 16-year-old homeless kid in the desert, I remember thinking, I wish someday I would have an opportunity to sit and talk to very interesting people.
And I found myself in a position where I was the interesting person.
Amazing. Well, I'm glad to hear that you abandoned the Guild of Acceptable Facts.
I certainly did.
It's always way more interesting on the fringes, honestly.
Way more stuff to learn out here.
I think so.
Ideas like that, creative minds need to go into academia and shake things up.
And that wasn't really what I felt that I could do.
But I think others need to do that.
What I chose to do was take some of the rigidity of academia and go into the abyss of chaos that is the pseudo world and try to put some order into that because we just need more balance and harmony.
And it's so much more fun.
People are nice.
People are better.
People are nicer, more open.
And it's a blast.
Can you tell us about the project, the first archaeological project to debunk alternative archaeology with Michael Cremo?
Well, they basically just were asking all of us to, almost like when you're a kid and it's book report time and they give you like five novels you can choose from, they gave us roughly five names and we were instructed to read their work, study up on them,
and then develop a paper.
Oh, this is that college project?
Yes. Explain why they're wrong.
Explain why they were wrong and prove it.
Basically, what they were doing was they were trying to manufacture an army of flint dibbles.
It's so unfortunate that they have to do that, dude.
Toe the narrative or just not have a career.
Oh, man.
Yeah. It is.
They got to prejudice you against it from the start by prefacing it with these people are wrong.
Find out why they're wrong.
Indoctrination, 100%.
Yeah. And I didn't even know that that was a thing.
I didn't realize that there were these alternative views.
When I went back to school, I think I was 20. I want to say 22. I just turned 22. And I just was not wise to things.
I was very naive.
And I had no idea that there was all of this sort of back and forth.
And so I'm just listening, authentically trying to learn and just, yeah, I can only imagine all of the people that they just indoctrinated.
It's just indoctrination at this point.
It's terrible.
Rockefeller took it over and just destroyed it.
That's why I retired this year, actually February.
I said, I'm done.
I pulled out my teacher's retirement and everything.
It's over.
I'm done.
I am never that way again.
I went back only because I love actually teaching.
And I went back to a community college because I thought that's where my story began.
And that's where people, you can really make a difference.
And I loved it.
It was amazing.
I had a lot of support from the...
The faculty in my particular department.
And that was a lot of fun.
So when I had to go on Ancient Aliens or travel, they would just be fine with that.
It was very supportive.
And it was a wonderful environment.
And I got to teach freely with academic freedom.
And it was amazing.
Until it wasn't.
Until we had differences in administration.
And the school was having financial issues.
There were all kinds of strange embezzlement things happening.
And it came down to...
Them not having enough security.
And there was an issue in one of the courses that I taught where there was a student making a manifesto.
What? He thought that I was the only person that could help.
And I had a pretty good relationship and rapport with my students.
And so unfortunately, he looked at me as his only hope.
And so I recorded a conversation with him coming to me, telling me his plans.
Holy crap.
So, obviously, I took that straight to administration.
That's terrifying.
And they did nothing.
They did nothing?
Nothing. Wow.
Well, the worst part was that the next day, I go in.
My classroom, my course started at 8 a.m., and I would get there a little early.
I was the first one in.
And so the classroom door was locked, and it was locked with a key code on the door.
I used the key code.
I opened it up.
It was dark.
I flip on the lights, and I see that.
Somebody had left a coat on the chair and their whole backpack.
And I thought, well, that's strange.
I've had students leave things in the past, but this was everything.
So it was really peculiar.
But then I look over and there was the student.
Oh my God.
And then everyone else started flooding in.
I just started class, but I was really like a little shaken by that.
But I went on with the class and then only to realize he had been in that classroom waiting for me after he came.
He stood up in the middle of class.
He sat up in the front and he would shake and he would get very frustrated.
He would interrupt my lecture a lot with a lot of rants.
And then he would apologize and then self-harm after the apology.
He started biting his knuckle to the point where it would bleed.
Yikes. And he stood up in the middle of the class.
He was exhibiting very...
Very troubled behavior.
So I went not only then to the administration after that class, after he grabbed me repeated times and hugged me and cried and very strange.
So I took it as an emergency situation now since they were doing nothing about it.
And I went to the police on campus.
I went everywhere I could.
They did nothing.
So I did not go to class the next day.
I refused to go in until they had answers for me.
Yeah. Then they had meetings, and I recorded all the meetings, too, because I'm, like, not about this.
So I had him on my recording thing.
And the guy, the head, the dean of students, he told me that what I needed to do was change.
My course that this student was in was Contemporary Issues in Society.
It was a humanities course and I was dealing with topics of philosophy like nihilism and stoicism and all of these different kinds of things.
He told me I needed to change my course altogether and like denying me academic freedom so that I wouldn't trigger him.
With ideas of morality.
Because part of what he was asking me was, the student that is, whether or not it was morally right to kill people if they should be killed in order to cleanse the world of the evil.
Oh my god, dude.
Right. He was having all these existential issues.
That sounds troubled.
Super troubled.
And they basically told me the solution was, do not trigger him with talk of any kind of existentialist philosophy.
And I said, I can't.
Like, what do you expect me to do?
What the hell?
Not to mention, how is that going to help?
And they said, I should also allow him to hug me because the Hispanic club...
I don't know her part.
I don't know that she was a professor, but the person running the Hispanic club has also reported that he had strange behavior, but she is more compassionate and allows him to hug her.
I said, that's unprofessional.
I don't allow students to literally stand up in the middle class, bum rush the podium, and come over and grab me.
The rest of us feel very uncomfortable about that, too.
So they're just hemming and hawing and not giving me clear answers.
And then they told me they also, they broke.
So in hospitals, they have HIPAA.
And in schools, they have something called FERPA.
And so it's the same kind of idea.
They are not allowed to tell me certain things about the student.
And so the psychiatrist at the school told me, well, I'm not supposed to tell you this, but he was just released from a psychiatric hospital.
And we know about his issues.
Shortly after you told us what happened with the manifesto, he went in voluntarily to see the school counselor.
She spoke with him and asked him if he was a threat to himself and others.
And he said no.
There you go.
I'm like, okay.
Done deal.
Done deal.
And they said, so he has some medication.
He has three psychiatrists.
He's been unreleased from the psychiatric hospital.
And so knowing that, they said, perhaps you could use that as leverage.
So he's very afraid of going back to the hospital.
So maybe you could subtly hint to that.
I said, no, this is not professional.
Threaten him?
This is unethical.
This is ridiculous.
And I said, I need...
Oh, my God.
Yes! Wonderful.
Threaten the psycho with involuntary committal.
That's a great idea.
Yes. And then they said...
I said, well, can I increase police presence?
And they said no.
Typically what they would do is they could put some police outside the door or at least in the hall so it looks like it's a little...
A school resource officer.
Something. And they said no because they didn't have any Hispanic police on staff and they didn't want to...
Had to be Hispanic.
Yeah, because of the student.
The student was Hispanic and they didn't want it to...
For whatever reason, they thought that that would pose a problem if there was someone who was white as a cop out there.
They didn't want to increase tensions.
Oh, a white cop versus a Latino cop.
Yes. So they were having all these issues and I said, well, I'm not coming back until something is resolved.
And they were not resolving anything.
And so I went to the...
I went to the local news.
Well, first what I did, I went and I talked to some friends of mine who happened to be an attorney who worked there, who was like the head of the paralegal program.
And then I spoke to a school counselor who did not work at that school, but worked at a different, worked at one of the universities here.
And she said, hold on.
And I said, what?
She said, you cannot go back.
And I said, what do you mean?
She said, if you go back and engage in any way.
You can become liable for if he does anything, even if he is in the next semester and you don't have him as a student, you can be held accountable for anything that happens with the rest of those students.
There's been precedent for that so that if anyone knew and didn't, I could have like...
Some sort of murder charges, essentially.
She said it's imperative that you resign immediately and you end the email site and also send a certified copy that you cite all of the reasons that you're leaving.
So I had to do that.
And so I did that.
And I had to bring it to the sheriff's department.
I had to file it with the court.
And on record, and that's when I went to media, on record, that's what happened so that I could wipe my hands of the situation and say, Hey, if anything happens, I've tried everything I could to tell you that he was threatening to shoot 12 students, another person who was off campus,
and an art professor.
And nobody did anything.
And so I've left and I've not been back since.
And I thought, I'm not going back.
It's not worth it.
Plus, it was taking too much time out of my real work, which is my night job instead of my day job.
And I've decided what I'm going to do is people want to learn.
And I want to teach.
So why do I have to do it through some institution, even if it's a, you know, I don't want to be part of this machine that is the academic-industrial complex at any level, whether it's a community college or a volunteering center, or it doesn't matter.
They're all corrupt all the way down.
So I thought, I'm going to start my own thing.
And that is why I developed the Midnight Academy.
And that's where I'm now taking my mission, I suppose, my everything, and I just share the information with people online.
And then I have formal classes, too, as you mentioned earlier, that people can take.
And so I still get to teach.
And I think it's more fun that way.
And hopefully there won't be many students writing manifestos.
And at least if they do, I have more recourse than what I see.
That is so insane.
I can't believe that.
Like, that is the closest you can get to another new town or another, like, Uvalde or something.
Like, that's crazy, dude.
Yeah, and it's not a sprint.
It's like reverse Publisher's Clearinghouse.
You might already be a loser.
Oh, my gosh.
Holy cow.
And I was surprised.
And you haven't done anything.
Yeah, and I was surprised nobody took it seriously because it hasn't been.
15 years, I think, since locally we had a massive school shooting in Shardin, Ohio, where I used to live.
It's like a suburb.
And what year was this when this happened?
The school shooting?
The situation with your student?
February of this year.
Of this year.
And nobody took any of that seriously?
Nope. But since then, they have a new president.
The vice president's gone.
I think half the school's closed.
It really...
The school...
I don't think...
What the hell?
Well, they dug their own grave.
At least it was figurative and not literal.
No shit.
Do you know what happened to that kid?
Is he...
Do you know?
Is he back in the house or what?
I have no idea.
I don't know those details.
He tried to email me a few times and he doesn't...
Wow. Dude, you need to be careful.
Heather. Oh, yeah.
Holy crap.
You have a stalker, man.
Yeah, I think...
I have worse people than that to worry about, honestly.
I mean, he's a troubled kid, and I think he's probably going to get the help he needs.
And I've made it so that he doesn't have a class to have to put under threat.
And I don't think he's so interested in bothering me at this point.
I hope not.
Nah. My threats actually come from worse people than that these days and have for a long time.
You got some crazy threats?
I have, you'd be surprised how many people in positions of power are interested in the things that we would consider pseudo-archaeology, we'll say.
Yeah. Positions of government, a lot of intelligence.
There are such things as secret societies.
Oh, yeah.
There are people, cultists, and there's a lot of people out there who have been very much interested in what I'm doing for various reasons and sometimes like to get in touch with me for a lot of reasons.
Yeah. I think I worry about those people more, but...
Damn! I gotta keep going.
For being supposed nonsense, they're sure acting like they believe in it pretty hard.
You know, that's what I try to tell people.
I know, I try to tell people this.
This is my best...
The best way I can explain it to anyone is when they look at these occult issues and they're afraid of Satan and demons and whatnot, they think that it's coming at them dressed up like a goth kid that came out of Hot Topic from back in the day and they are afraid of the heavy metal.
They're looking in that direction and what they're doing is not looking at the reality.
The best way to describe it is if you've ever seen the movie Rosemary's Baby.
That movie depicts real occultists in the best way.
In that film, there's a woman, and her husband is somebody, like an actor who's trying to make it in Hollywood, and she becomes pregnant, and they move to this beautiful apartment in Manhattan, and it's the story of her pregnancy,
and there's these old people next door that are quirky.
And they're always meddling with her, and they give her gifts, and it's just strange.
We end up finding out that they were Satanists, and the depiction of that experience and the depiction of those characters are 100% what the real power players in the occult are like.
They're wealthy.
They are educated.
They are generally older.
They don't dress up in costume.
They don't cosplay Satanism.
They're the people you'd least expect.
And they're the ones that are out there worshipping Satan.
Uh-oh.
No. What happened?
Oh, man.
We lost feet again.
You there?
Hello? No.
No, no, no, no.
Are either of you there?
Anything? I cannot hear either of you.
We're just wrapping up, too.
That is such a bummer.
If you can hear me, I'm going to stop because I have to refresh my page.
Both of you are...
Gone, but you're there.
Apparently. So I don't know where we cut off, where it ended, so go for it.
I was just saying, I think it wasn't a goth kid that you have to worry about.
It's the power elites that you least suspect that dress up in fine clothing and present themselves as though they are too rational to believe in such nonsense and really behind the scenes, they're the ones who are...
Harvesting adrenochrome and whatever else.
And that is no joke.
No joke.
No joke.
I've covered that pretty extensively in previous episodes.
Yeah. I mean, back to the...
Heads always have to bring up those darn Nazis, but they're pretty relevant.
Back to this idea that in Berlin at the time, you have highly aware and literate...
Educated people.
And you would think, well, why did they all fall for this?
And some of the documentaries that are very mainstream will show Himmler and his castle.
And you just think of these strange one-off people that might have had a fascination with the occult, and then they just compartmentalize it there.
Because it would be too much to expect the general public, a public of thinking people, to look at your leaders who are dressed in uniform or suits, and they're in positions of power, and they look like they have dignity.
To really picture them in some sort of hooded robe or doing some strange mystical activities, it would just stretch the imagination.
And so that's what they have going for them is that it's hidden.
So it's easy to just look at evil and the idea and think of it as just heavy metal.
Aficionados, when really what it is, is it's another instance of hidden in plain sight.
People in positions of power, they have strangely held beliefs.
Oh man, yeah, they absolutely do.
I was going to say that, I forget the castle name that Himmler had, where he would do the whole Vril Society and the rituals and stuff.
Yeah. But he had like the largest collection of occultist books.
I mean, he was deeply entrenched in the occult.
Yes. Yes, deeply.
And they were also very, very interested in archaeology, hence the Ananerbe.
Yes. So all of these things do fit together.
And it's important to remember that I tell people this, too.
I try to say, even if you are some kind of an atheist, rationalist, materialist, you have no interest in this and you think it's all crazy.
That's totally fine, but you need to know because the people who are making decisions about whether we go to war, whether we get to eat, whether we get to live, those people, they may have deeply held beliefs that are that crazy to you.
So it doesn't mean you have to agree or disagree or what have you.
That's a side point.
The point is you have to be open to the idea that there are people who believe this.
And so a lot of people, they just don't want to address it.
I don't know.
Put people in power is somehow like they should know better, but they don't necessarily, quote, know better.
And at the end of the day, there's the whole thing where if you're poor and you're thinking these thoughts, it just makes you crazy.
But if you're thinking these thoughts and you're wealthy, you're just eccentric.
You get away with a lot with money.
Great point.
And yeah, they definitely buy into this stuff far more than they ever let on.
Come on, why would it be allowed to flourish otherwise?
If they didn't think there was something to it, then they'd be threatened by it and try and put a stop to it because it would be a threat to their power.
So the fact that they allow it to continue kind of demonstrates that they buy into it.
Yes, I think that's true.
Otherwise, wouldn't they ban it?
Exactly. But I think we're doing a lot here to expose it, and I think that's why shows like yours are so important.
To get that information out to people so that they can recognize the things that they try to hide right in front of us and so that we are more informed and we don't allow them to win and have all of that knowledge and we don't stay profane, but instead we can be empowered to know and reject the indoctrination.
Reject the indoctrination.
Yeah. But yeah, the main thing working against the story at this point is frankly how absurd quote consensus reality has become.
That seems to be the number one reason why people are waking up from all this mesmerism is simply because you're just presented with way too many examples of no, the sky is green.
And you just look up and you're like, no, it's still blue.
I've started to realize that you're just lying to me.
Yeah. Thankfully, people are waking up.
They're waking up and they're looking up.
You're saying, I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it any longer.
Thank you for that.
Love the quote.
That is the intro and outro to the show.
Such a great movie.
The network.
Scary great.
It's prophetic.
Very, very, very much.
Hey, I wanted to ask you, before we get out of here, you've got an Iraqi expedition next year.
Yes, I am putting together an expedition to go to Iraq next year, and I am working with a few filmmakers to document that excursion.
We have a few things we're looking for.
We have cooperation with officials there, which I'm very excited about.
I want to encourage anybody interested to go look at my website, sign up for updates.
There's opportunity, very, very, very limited opportunity to accompany me on that.
So it is not a tour per se.
Some people and colleagues that I have do tourist opportunities, and this is not such an opportunity because of the sensitive nature of the expedition and the logistics involved.
But it is open to individuals who are serious researchers and want to participate in the documentary to some extent.
So there will be a research group that goes.
But if you are interested in following along, you can go to the website.
I will be posting all kinds of videos and things that we find and updates on that.
But yeah, so we're putting it together right now and working to document the entire thing.
There's some interesting sites that have not been accessible to the public, particularly in the West until just recently.
And so I hope to bring that out to people.
And also on behalf of the Iraqi people, I want to be able to show that it is an up-and-coming area, that they are wanting people to have those types of tours, that it is actually a safer place.
I'm not going to suggest that it's...
Very, very safe.
There is a risk anytime we travel.
Middle East.
It is a risk.
However, the actual government there is very much trying to encourage people, particularly in the West, to come to experience Iraq.
They're rebuilding.
They're actually building brand new hotels right now that are, as they put it, up to Western standards.
What does that mean?
It means that currently, if you go there...
Some of the accommodations aren't as luxurious.
And it's very understandable because they have been bombed.
They've had a rough time to say the least.
The place has been decimated.
Decimated. So they have been in the rebuilding process and they've done a great job.
And they're so excited to open themselves up to the world.
Not many people are aware of this, but people are going over there.
Having a wonderful time.
In fact, if you are Western, and even as a female, I want to point that out too.
Many of the places that have been traditionally off limits are not.
And while it may be a little different, so say like a tea house, for instance, where there still would be seating for men only, and then what they call the family area that's sort of designated for women and children, it is not.
Something that is inherently oppressive.
They don't force you in that.
It's just there because in their culture, their wives and children kind of prefer that because of how they've been enculturated.
But they don't enforce that.
And they definitely don't enforce that on Western travelers.
In fact, even as a Western female...
You can go into these tea houses where the men typically would congregate and have their tea and smoke and do things.
You're very much welcome there.
They're very happy to have you.
It's been said, I know many people have gone over there where you go with a pocket of money, you're ready to go and shop and eat, and you come out of there with more money than you had because they don't let you spend a dime.
They want to give you things.
They want to encourage you to come back.
It is the most welcoming place right now.
There is still a threat of some terrorist activities because there have been instances where maybe there's a car bomb or something like that, but it's so much less than in the past.
They're not under ISIS control, and they're up and coming.
And there are some wonderful places.
If anyone's on TikTok and these sorts of things, you can go and find Iraqi tourism videos now, and you can see how.
It's going to be a destination.
Assuming we can secure some level of peace in the world right now and peace there, if we can get in the direction of world peace, I foresee Iraq being a very hot tourist destination.
They're wonderful people, very welcoming, and great food, great culture, and they're ready for visitors.
I would love to go.
I would love to go over there.
Definitely. Shout out to the Iraqi people.
Great fortitude and resilience and wonderful culture and they know it and they're excited to bring that culture.
And so they are building new sites where instead of just coming across a site and there's archaeological work there, they're building an infrastructure to allow you to not tour things properly with labels and monument signs and they're really embracing the tourist aspect.
So they're in the building stages.
So I hope for them to have a better future.
That's cool.
Yeah. I mean, the cradle of civilization's got to have a lot of amazing artifacts in it.
It's really a shame that it's been under conflict for so long, honestly.
Yes, it is sad.
It is sad.
I've heard a theory of why it's been in conflict for so long, like to hide the history, you know, to get rid of all these artifacts, to completely reset civilization.
I believe that there is a...
I believe there's truth to that.
And I also believe they know that ancient people had more information, more power, and more technology than we're led to believe.
100%, dude.
And speaking of that, I've had a question because I really want to know this.
What are those small little handbags that are shown in hieroglyphs and carvings all over the world?
Like, you know, those tiny little handbags that, you know, the Sumerians are holding?
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
So those, it's funny because they're often referred to as the handbags of the gods, because you do see them depict on mostly pictures of the deities of different cultures.
So there are some, the handbags of the gods moniker was coined by Zechariah Sitchin, who started pointing this out in his book in 1976, I think.
And it really drew people's attention to it.
But you can see these.
Basically, they look like handbags.
Some people have said they were buckets, but when you look at the earliest examples coming from Sumer, you can see them quite clearly.
Then you also see them all around the world in ancient Egyptian art.
There's deities like Osiris and Isis, and they're holding not only the Ankh, but they'll be holding a small bag too.
The name of those bags in the ancient Egyptian were saw, and they were believed to contain Magical objects that gave God's power and authority.
So you have this, again, with religious syncretism and things, you have these motifs all around the Near East and Egypt.
But then you start to see an interesting thing happen with the South American figurines holding bag-like objects.
And so there's an Incan god that is often depicted holding one of these little bags, and they believe that in that bag were Coca leaves and other ceremonial items.
So you could make this argument that, well, it's a bag.
It's going to carry things.
It will have a handle.
So it's just a coincidence.
It's just, there's that.
Well, it's interesting because there have been clues found in the Iranian plateau in a region where they have found actually some of the...
Well, at least what looked like the bags, or at least what we would think of as bags.
They're made of chlorite.
And these artifacts, they're like vessels, ceremonial weights, they say.
They're also sometimes called handbags.
But they had iconography carved in them, mythical creatures, sometimes just patterns and whatnot.
And they would have been made of an easily worked stone, particularly the kind of stone that would have been in the Iranian region.
Sometimes even they use iron that came from a meteorite, which was something that ancient people really, really thought to be powerful or meteorites.
They sometimes worshipped them too.
But they would have these handbags made out of this and sometimes thought of as a...
But there's some really cool...
Up on my blog, I have an article about this that actually has some pictures or illustrations of drawings that were made by the researchers to show what they believed these, what we would call bags, were made to do.
And they were almost like weights or something that would have been adorned or covered over by cloth.
So in one hand, they could have been used like the handbag itself.
Would have been used to hold on to, but then in the afterlife, that part of the handle could have been used to wrap a rope around the tarp that could have been used to cover the grave.
So this is some of the evidence they found there.
It doesn't necessarily explain all of it, but they do have actual Stone handbags like this.
So are those the things that we're talking about, or are those also just stone representations of the handbags they actually had that have perhaps since been lost to time?
It's hard to say, and it's still considered a mystery, but we even see depictions of these handbags going as far back as 12,500 years at Gobekli Tepe.
Oh, yes.
12,500. So sometimes now you could...
So there's a lot of conjecture, there's a lot of mystery there, but we do know even in indigenous American tribes, they've had a tradition of having their own occult societies, and these occult societies were sort of
like mystery initiation, right, based things where very similar to the Near East where you would be
Initiate it into different levels of knowledge, and it would be through oral tradition.
And then once you got up to a particular level and you were a master, you were able to know what was in the bag, essentially.
And in the bag sometimes would be sacred objects.
There's still Native American tribes who have these sacred objects.
Sometimes they refer to them as the sacred bundles.
And inside would be very important magical relics.
They were important to those tribes.
So while it may not be in the shape of a handbag, there could be an underlying concept here that keeps getting repeated, that these adepts would have access to sacred objects of magic and that they would be self-contained and only the gods would be able to carry them.
It's just a satchel full of DMT.
I'm not going to rule that out completely.
Who knows?
Godly Gucci.
Who knows?
Made from the cosmos.
I mean, because we see them in Mesopotamia, like you said, Gobekli Tepe, in Central America, in South America, in Asia.
They're everywhere.
Yeah, they are.
And they're held by typically the gods.
And they're usually associated with some sense of technology, whatever that technology may be.
So if you're holding it in one hand, maybe in the other hand, you are hand fertilizing a tree.
showing that you have mastery over agriculture and the sciences that were given to you from like Enki in the Sumerian sense.
So it does show that these were objects of power, whatever they may be, whatever they held.
So it is fascinating.
Huge importance.
Great importance.
And you mentioned the DMT, and that's going to be covered a lot in my next book, which will be coming out next year.
That is a follow-up to The Anunnaki Connection.
It is called The Anunnaki Revelation.
And in that, I go into the often...
Misunderstood and not acknowledged history of the sacred mushroom in the world of the Sumerians and the Anunnaki.
There are actually cuneiform tablets that speak of the sacred mushroom, and they don't just speak of them.
They're shaped as mushrooms with the text going around them.
Interesting. Interesting.
I love all that.
You know, I went to Tikal in Guatemala a number of years ago, and I got a...
Walk all over the pyramids there and look at some amazing, amazing hieroglyphs or petroglyphs and whatnot.
When you go to these sites, energy is literally emanating from these things.
You feel so different.
Like, you can't even explain it.
Well, that's why I very much object to the...
I covered this in my dissertation, actually.
I was very passionate about this.
There is a trend in museums, especially big ones, especially the Smithsonian, to remove the actual artifacts from museums, from view, and replace them with replicas or replace them with technology to sort of gamify or make a virtual reality experience or an augmented reality experience.
What that does is it really...
Limits your ability to stand face to face with the sacred object.
I'll never forget one of my favorite moments was just it's a small moment in a museum going to the Getty Villa in Malibu and they had the Cyrus Cylinder on loan from the British Museum and there wasn't anybody it was a very it's a if I highly recommend the Getty Villa.
Fantastic little museum, not often very packed.
And I had a moment alone where I could stand in front of one of the greatest objects in history.
And you could feel that power.
You could feel its importance.
And I do not believe that I would have had the same experience had I just been standing in front of a little screen hitting buttons watching a 3D movie.
Oh, yeah.
And I think that's something that they want to do.
They want to deprive us of that connection so that we can devalue all of those links to history so they can easily get rid of them, maybe even have us help them get rid of them so they can rewrite history.
It's like paying for a musician, but they give you the cover band.
Just a total rip-off.
Exactly. It sounds exactly the same.
What's the problem?
I mean, he sounds like Axl Rose.
He tried to dress up like him.
It's really sad that they do that.
Like, when was this?
In, like, 2014, 2015, maybe, over in Iraq, when, I forget, ISIS or ISIL or something, they were going around just destroying museums, all the stone statues and vases and all sorts of things,
tablets. Destroyed everything.
And, I mean, I believe that that was part of this whole operation to totally just erase.
A certain part of history.
It's a known tool of power.
Just like George Orwell said in his famous book, 1984, who controls the past controls the future, and who controls the present controls the past.
Damn. The cream will rise to the top, but they don't want to give people the freedom to...
They don't want that because they know that they have a weak argument.
Exactly. Well, guys, what do we say we finish this out?
Any final words on Baphomet, Dr. Heather Lynn?
Anything we didn't touch on?
Anything you want to mention?
No, no, not really.
I think we've kind of covered it all, but I just want to say thank you so much for having me today.
It's been a very great conversation.
We got to go through not only the work that I'm doing, but some of the deeper ideas behind it and some of the deeper powers and principles that are really at play in our world today.
So thank you so much for having me on and thank you for putting on such a fantastic and enlightening show and doing such a wonderful job in waking people up and sharing the truth with them.
Well, I appreciate that.
But thank you for taking the time to come on this show.
We truly appreciate that.
Anytime. Many thanks for the knowledge I've acquired a lot here.
I've learned a lot in this conversation.
This has been a great freaking conversation.
Yeah, if you want to come back on, the door is open on this show.
Oh, anytime.
The door is open.
But tell the listeners where they can find your book and let them know where they can check out all your other work.
They can go to my website at drheatherlynn.com.
It's drheatherlynn.com.
There you'll find everything you need, links to the books.
Books are in all the major bookstores, online, Amazon.
Find me on YouTube.
I have a podcast called The Midnight Academy where we talk about these things and more.
And if you want to reach out, if you have any interesting tips or any questions, you can email me too and I will get back to you.
I can't necessarily get back to everybody very fast, but I do read everything and I make it a point to answer everybody.
So that's heather at drheatherlynn.com.
You can email me there.
Author of Fingerprint of the Gods speaks highly of you.
That was some serious pedigree in my opinion because...
That guy was essentially my introduction to this renegade archaeology concept.
He introduced me to this.
Graham Hancock?
Let's see, who's the one who authored Fingerprints of the Gods and Supernatural?
Erich von Däniken.
Oh yeah, Erich von Däniken.
Däniken, yeah.
Däniken, yeah.
I've read a few of his books and the first thing that struck me was this is so amazingly scholarly and well-studied.
Why did these people act like these folks are a bunch of kooks who are just making this up with nothing?
He had so much evidence.
It was insane.
Yeah, and if it's not real, then just let people read it and judge for themselves.
Yeah, and if it's so not real, then prove it wrong.
Exactly. That's what I say.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of the Paranautica Podcast.
I hope you enjoy the show.
Email me at Paranautica at gmail.com.
You can follow us at Twitter, at Paranautica.
Facebook page is The Paranautica Podcast.
And Cricket, you have your own little thing, your email and Twitter.
Do you want to pitch that?
Oh, yes.
I've got an email address so people can contact me now.
It's theindividual at yahoo.com.
That's individual with an E at the end.
And then my Twitter account that I just recently opened is at individual with an E, the no spaces or anything.
Unfortunately, you know, signing it up eight years after making the website, someone else got to the Twitter name first.
