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Aug. 1, 2023 - ParaNaughtica
01:07:57
Episode 28. Roch Theriault and the Ant Hill Kids - Part 2

CONTACT US Email:        paranaughtica@gmail.com Twitter:      @paranaughtica Facebook:    The Paranaughtica PodcastToday, we will finish up this two-parter on one of the most extreme cults of Canadian fame. This weeks episode is a bit 'juicier', a lot of violence, and a whole lot of 'what the fuck?'We appreciate you guys and gals listening in and we hope you enjoy!If you’d like to help us out with a kindly donation, it would be extremely appreciated. If you’d like to do that and you’re currently listening on Spotify, you can simply scroll down on our page and you’ll see a button to help us out with either a one-time donation or you can set up a monthly recurring donation. If you’re not listening on Spotify, you can:    Ko-Fi:  Help us out by donating to the podcast through either a 'one-time' donation or a monthly donation. You can find our Ko-Fi at our Facebook page!     Paypal:  Donate through Paypal to help out the show! You can find our Paypal at our Facebook Page!What do you get out of helping us out with the show!? You get consistent quality content, and also some super cool stickers. We’re also working on other merch, such as coffee mugs, t-shirts, etc. with awesome original artwork. Podcasting is not easy, folks. It takes a tremendous amount of time and effort. We are forever grateful for our faithful listeners and supporters.  Sources: ⁠https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/chilling-insight-doomsday-cult-members-13995059⁠⁠https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roch_Th%C3%A9riault⁠⁠https://www.toronto.com/news/crime/behind-the-crimes-murder-mutilation-abuse-part-of-life-at-ant-hill-kids-commune/article_70440d6e-a838-5b34-856d-b696402a10c9.html?⁠⁠https://zeph456.medium.com/the-ant-hill-kids-c85d46a1eb2a Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Time Text
I'm defeating all chaos and living in sin.
Downward spiral, where do I begin?
It all started when I lost my mother.
No love for myself, no love for another.
Search and find love upon a higher level.
Finding nothing but questions and devil.
Yeah. Wow, man.
Wow, what's that?
Feelings. What are those lyrics?
Is that yours?
Did you write that?
I didn't, actually.
Those lyrics are from one song which I sung in a completely different style, actually.
Pretty wild stuff, man.
Thanks, bro.
I like that one part where you were like, Living in sin, where to begin, it was exceptionally thin, finding nothing.
Thought that was super rad.
Yeah, that's really not how it went, like, at all, man.
Uh, yeah, it was, dude.
I just heard it.
Well... Sounds to me more like maybe you're projecting in some kind of dark way.
But anyways, you know, we can move along.
It's all good.
Yeah, yeah, why not?
So, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Panautica Podcast.
Today, we are finishing the second and last part of the two-part series on Roche Theriault and the Ant Hill Kids cult.
That was up there in Canada back in the 1980s.
Man, just from last week's episode.
This is a truly fucked up cult.
But, you know, at least they didn't go around fucking other.
Well, I mean, that is a good point.
Yeah, they did keep it in the family, as they say.
Yeah, like you said, still not good, though.
Still not good.
Oh, no.
Not good at all, sir.
Not good at all.
If you would please, our dear listeners, please click that subscribe button, and don't forget to like and share us on whatever app or website you're listening in on.
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And keep this thing going, man.
This is for you, man.
Yeah, and you can do that directly on Spotify if you just check out our page.
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Any and all help is very much appreciated, you guys.
Very much so.
More than you realize.
But you know what else is much appreciated, Scott?
Hmm. Common sense?
Definitely that.
Most definitely that.
But I'm talking about something different here.
Oh. Hmm.
The mystery deepens.
I'm talking about the segment of the century.
Holy shit!
Well, it is in all the headlines.
And now, I present to you our gorgeous audience.
Guys and dolls.
Portrait.
Wow. Wow.
Yeah, I pay that band a lot every week.
Too much.
Yeah, too much.
Last week, our Tray for Tray was about the UFO disclosure and the congressional hearing that was going to be held last Wednesday, July 26, 2023.
Well... I'm here to tell you that that hearing happened and what a hearing it was.
Yeah, I mean, it was a move forward in the whole UFO disclosure debacle.
I mean, it appeared that most of Congress were in agreeance that UFOs or UAPs, as we're now supposed to call them, are indeed real.
And from the record, it sounds like the fighter pilots are quite afraid of the UFO technology, which is far superior to their own.
These craft can jam up all of their equipment, their radar, their weapons, everything, leaving them completely vulnerable.
Yeah, and from the sounds of it, humans are no match for whoever or whatever these other entities are.
They're clearly far superior in every way, and that would make sense if the beings have existed far longer than us measly humanoids on the third rock from the sun.
Absolutely. But what is really going on here?
I mean...
There were three credible witnesses, all from the military.
Two of them were witnesses to UFOs.
The other was not, but they were told countless stories by their brothers-in-arms who spoke of encountering UFOs in the skies during missions.
Ryan Graves is a former fighter pilot.
David Fravor is a retired commander.
And David Grush were all witnesses.
Fravor and Graves were the ones that had personally seen UFOs, at least one UFO, and Fravor is the one behind the famed Tic Tac UFO.
I suppose the purpose of the hearing was to get these things out in the public record, but it was also to give better protections to those ranking military personnel who witnessed these things.
I mean, they deserve it.
There's been a long-standing protocol in place that if you were to be a pilot, you saw something like this.
And spoke about it, you would be ridiculed by your superiors, treated horribly by the upper ranks.
Your whole opinion was discounted by everybody who matters.
For some reason, all of these things have been kept super hush-hush.
And it sucks.
You work so hard for the government, right?
You ascend to these ranks where you're making decisions and you're given more responsibility.
You report something that you saw because you're being honest because that's what you were trained to do.
And then everybody just shits all over you.
Right, man.
And two of these witnesses at that hearing divulge information that they personally knew or know people in the ranks that were either purposely injured and or killed at the direction of these higher-ranking individuals.
Mr. David Grush, one of the three witnesses, added that he knows of multiple colleagues who were physically injured by UAP activity and by people within the U.S. government, but declined to share more details unless he's in a protected environment.
He also said that non-human biologics were found at alleged UAP crash sites when asked about the pilots of the craft.
Former U.S. Navy fighter pilots Ryan Graves and retired Commander David Fravor both claimed that they had encountered aircraft of a non-human origin.
And Graves, who served in the Navy for over a decade, is quoted as saying, quote, military air crews and commercial pilots, trained observers whose lives depend on accurate identification.
Graves mentioned that he and his crew saw something spectacular off the coast of Virginia Beach, Virginia.
He said that their lead jet came within 50 feet of what he described as a dark gray or black cube inside of a clear sphere.
He said it was about 15 feet in diameter and it was motionless against the heavy wind.
Their mission was abruptly canceled and his squadron gave their reports, but...
As usually happens with these sorts of things, the reports were filed away and just forgotten about.
Not anymore.
That's about to change apparently, because the entire purpose of this hearing was to provide avenues for these pilots to be able to report their sightings in front of the public, anyone who is willing to listen, without being harassed or pushed out of their ranks.
Yes. And one turd in the cesspool that is the government is Sean Kirkpatrick.
He's the director of the Pentagon's offices, which is in charge of the UAP phenomena.
He told a Senate subcommittee in April of this year, 2023, that the U.S. government was tracking 650 potential cases of unidentified aerial phenomena.
During testimony, turd Kirkpatrick was adamant that there was no Yeah,
well, good old Turd Kirkpatrick, or Turd Pat, if you will.
Didn't receive that nickname for not true fact.
And I'm sure the government loves him exactly where he is for exactly what he does, which is to poo-poo the truth.
Good old turd, Kirk Patrick.
Good fucking point.
There was one portion of that hearing that made me shake my head in disgust.
It was when one of the congresswomen was speaking.
I forget her name.
But she's clearly on the other side of the fence on this issue.
She believes these, you know, aliens or UFOs are nothing more than Chinese air balloons.
And when I heard her speak, I just hope that someone would just turn off her microphone because she's clearly fighting some intense cognitive dissonance.
I'm pretty stoked, though, that the three witnesses all agree that the U.S. government is keeping a lot from the public, which goes against many of the U.S. Codes, which the government is supposed to be bound by.
But we all know they don't follow their own rules.
That's old news.
That's nothing new.
I do want to say that I am stoked that all three of them agree that...
The U.S. government, with their branches of military, have retrieved numerous craft from UFO crash sites and have succeeded in reverse engineering them.
So, I mean, it's all three of them saying this.
These are separate guys from separate areas of life who have come up on their own.
They're not like all three in some group together.
Right. And they all are reporting the same thing.
So, I mean, it just lends a lot of stability to their platform and their argument, just in general.
Yeah. And the point on your comment about the reverse engineering there, I have to say, see, man, I told you, I told you, and I'll say it again, I firmly believe that many, not all, but many of these alleged UFOs or UAPs that the average person is filming from their phones or cameras are actually reverse engineer craft that the U.S. government is flying.
And I believe it's all part of PSYOPs, man, I'm telling you.
There's something bigger in the works here than just this UFO disclosure, because face it, the government wants nothing more than to be in control of everything.
So they will use this disclosure to their advantage in some way.
I agree with that.
But you know what I found interesting?
Not that I wasn't privy to it before, but how David Grush, who served 14 years as an intelligence officer in the Air Force and the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency, told lawmakers earlier this year that there is a multi-decade UAP crash retrieval
and reverse engineering program.
Multi-decade.
I agree with that.
So this has been going on for a long time.
Multi-decade.
And Grouch, with his top secret clearances, was denied access to those programs, so he wasn't in the in-group when he requested the information.
He has direct knowledge that the government and the military are misappropriating funds in order to shield those operations from congressional oversight.
Nobody wants anybody to know.
He also said that he had interviewed numerous officials as well who had direct knowledge of aircraft with non-human origins.
And that so-called biologics were recovered from some of these craft.
Yeah. Everything we thought was going on is going on over all these years, man.
And it isn't difficult to put the pieces together and know that the government, all governments, do not have the public's best interests in mind.
They will lie to us and deceive us any chance they get.
So it comes down to this.
Why would the government lie about it?
Some of you may be even asking this.
Why would the government keep this covered up?
Sure, sure.
But if the aliens are so far advanced, you know, to even get here at first...
Why would they care about an agreement?
It seems to me that they could just do whatever the hell it is they want to do, and we couldn't do a damn thing about it.
So why would they agree with us or try to strike some kind of bargain?
Exactly. Who knows?
And actually, one of these witnesses said that we can't do anything against these beings.
They are far superior than us.
We have no chance.
So, I don't know.
Maybe it's one of those situations where the government knows they can't do a goddamn thing and the aliens don't want a nuclear war with all the fallout.
Maybe the aliens have other plans for us on this planet.
Maybe they are already in control.
And all of this is just part of a design narrative played out on the world stage.
True. That very well could be true.
Or maybe it's that we have something or this planet has something that they need.
Right. And they need us here.
Yeah, that's true.
The point is, like you said before, Everything that we thought was happening is happening.
Yes. Yes, it is.
Maybe lizard people are real.
Maybe the reptilians are actually the leaders of the government.
Oh, yes.
Talk about age-old narratives.
And if we look at the old Sumerian writings, the aliens back then came to Earth and used humans as miners for the gold and shit because they needed gold to fix their planet, right?
Nibiru and all that good stuff.
Oh, man.
Well, that's another book for another time there, buddy.
It is indeed.
So, anyway.
Where we left off last week was after we mentioned that the great year of 1979 came around and the apocalypse never came.
It was at this point that things started to really escalate violently within Eternal Mountain.
Not that everything that had happened up to that point wasn't a violent escalation, because it truly was.
Things were just getting worse and worse, if you guys remember where we left off.
Yeah. So Roche, the leader of the Ant Hill Kids cult, called it punishment.
But what it really was was full-on torture, and some say that the worst torture that any cult has been guilty of.
And this torture would come whenever Boozfield wrote,
Right. And that could have been anything from the followers not selling enough pastries, or not enough jams and jellies, or maybe you looked at a person of the opposite sex, like your wife, for example, or your husband or your housemate,
and BAM!
He would just get set off.
Set off, man.
Yeah, dude.
You couldn't have intercourse with your partner unless it was approved by Roche.
And if you did, the punishments were happily doled out by Papa Roche.
Oh, Papa Roche.
The scars remind me the past is real.
Tell my heart open just to fail.
Oh, man.
Wow. Yikes.
Papa Roche.
Thank you for those.
Deep lyrics, bro.
Brings me back to, I don't know, what, 2001 or something?
Yeah, yeah.
I think I was driving around delivering pizzas, if I remember correct.
Jamming out to Papa Roche?
Just singing that song and meaning every word of it, you know what I mean?
Oh, yeah, dude.
Oh, boy.
So, Papa Roche would force his followers to eat rotting animals, insects, and their own shit.
And each other's shit, dude.
And Roche would fucking shit on them as well.
Shit on each other.
This guy was a whack job, man.
Oh man, he was such a fucking demented fuck.
And he'd make them fight each other like gladiators until he became bored with it.
So for no good reason.
I mean, dude, fuck this guy, man.
And he'd hang them from the ceiling and pluck out their hairs one at a time for long periods of time.
It's just crazy.
I'm just thinking of these people just going with it like, okay, hang me from the ceiling.
It takes a lot of work to hang a person from the ceiling.
I know.
I mean, unless the other eight were just like, yeah, hang him from the ceiling.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, dude.
They would all turn on each other at Roche's direction.
He would tell them, all right, you do this, do this, do this, and they would just do it.
Man, it's crazy.
Yeah, that's crazy.
And let's not forget that he impregnated at least nine of the women who gave birth to upwards of 26 children.
It's said that Roche kept them in a perpetual pregnancy so that there was this consistent stream of babies.
And of course, there was a lot of sexual abuse going on within this cult against both the children and the adults, of course.
And some of the adults were forced to engage in these acts while others were willing participants.
Right, right.
And keep in mind, there were said to be 12 followers and most were women with, like, three guys, plus a lot of children.
So that more or less catches us up to today's episode.
We'll literally pick up exactly where we left off from last week.
Yep. Yeah, so the last thing you mentioned last week was that Roche was removing the followers' teeth and their fingernails and their toenails, man.
And of course, if he wasn't personally doing it, He would force the other followers to do it to each other.
Correct. So, there would also be times when Roche would force them to burn themselves and each other with hot objects or an open flame, and he would force them to sit on lit stovetops, but not only as a form of punishment, but as a way to show their dedication to him.
I mean, I don't get it.
I mean, I know how cults work, obviously.
Well, I mean, not from personal experience, but just like, clearly, this has happened enough times that people go along with this kind of stuff.
But I don't understand that frame of mind that these people put themselves in.
Like, how for a single instance would a sane person find it logical and reasonable to do that shit, like sit on a hot stovetop?
And I'm not hating on these people, and I'm not making fun of it either, because they clearly did it.
So they have been deeply manipulated and brainwashed, but man, it's just so crazy to me.
Yeah, I don't get it either, man.
The brain is really strange, and everyone's brain is doing something...
You know, somewhat different up there in all that gray matter.
For sure.
And I looked into some of the characteristics that people who follow a cult leader share and I like to share those here.
Sure. Interestingly, they will typically have a higher level of education and have more financial success.
They might have a weaker spiritual background and they're typically younger in age and have fewer time constraints.
So, you know, more time to do some culting.
That's really interesting because it's like the followers typically have more financial success and a better education, but the leader is less likely to have a good education and is less likely to be financially successful.
That is, on their own, doing legitimate things and not by swindling other people.
So that dynamic is pretty weird to me.
It's pretty freaking strange, bro.
Also, these people are desperately seeking answers.
And then there's this guy that's talking right along the lines of kind of what they're looking for.
So now they see this guy as one with all the answers or someone that understands them.
A true Neo.
Yes, the chosen one.
Yes, exactly.
And then there's the actual group, which has its own mentality, the group mentality.
And everyone sees everyone else's feeling and looking happy.
So now they're feeling and looking happy.
And they're like, yeah, yeah, I'm with my people, you know.
Ah, yes.
Happiness. Yes, and usually...
Right at the outset, the new recruits are treated as if they're some kind of a celebrity and everybody loves them and they get the special treatment.
They get love-bombed, as they say.
So you take someone with low self-worth, right?
Low self-esteem.
Love bomb them for a few days or a week and just watch what that does to the person because they haven't felt anything like that before.
Or if they have, they haven't felt it in that quantity from complete strangers.
Right. And it changes them.
And in the case of a cult, this creates a bond and levels of closeness that brings with it what we all seek deep down.
Comfort, right?
Yeah. Comfort, approval.
So, you know, globally, 70% of cult members or followers are women.
Did you know that?
Actually, yes.
I did know that.
It was in one of those boxes of Cracker Jacks, but I didn't explain why that is.
In a box of Cracker Jacks?
That's fucking amazing.
Yes. But all I can say as to why that is is that even the experts can't agree on why that is.
Some believe it's because there are just more women who attend social gatherings and groups, so statistically they would make up a larger number.
Others say that it's because, and this is just stupid, but they're the experts, so we have to believe them, right?
We have to listen to them.
They say that it's because women have been oppressed for so long that they feel more comfortable being under the rule of an authority figure.
Oh, man.
Experts say that.
Experts? Jeez, what kind of experts?
Good question.
I'm an expert in women.
Right? And it's a man.
Good luck, buddy.
Yeah, it's a man.
Yeah, exactly.
I know that there are some women who do feel more comfortable living like that, but to suggest that that is why there are higher numbers of women in cults to me sounds absolutely fucking ridiculous.
Well, others say that, you know, many women seek attention of men, and so they join a cult to wait for rescue by her metaphorical knight in shining armor.
Ah, so a true damsel in distress situation.
That happens?
I don't know, man.
This is proposed by Emma Klein.
She's some author.
She says that the whole thing I just mentioned is a woman, quote, seizing her destiny, end quote.
Um, I don't know, man.
Sounds like she's a writer for the Ed Hill Kids.
But one of the more likely reasons why there are more women is because, yes, women are more likely to be part of a group of some kind, and with women already being present in a cult, and perhaps there being more of them versus men.
It would seem like a good wholesome time, right?
Oh, sure.
Everyone likes a good wholesome time.
Some of these women, though, already in the group, they'll go out and greet other women, fresh fish, to bring into the cult.
And those women are like, Hey, you should come check out this super awesome fun group I'm part of.
There are many other women there.
Oh, women are there?
Super cool.
I'm in.
Uh, are there drinks?
Well, we believe in total abstinence from drugs and alcohol.
Oh. Yeah, but there are more women than men, so we can knit and talk a lot.
That's so refreshing to hear that there are more women, you know?
There's just so many men everywhere.
Like, tell me in.
Wait, what?
I think that's how it goes down with these things.
That's probably how it happens.
They're like, wait, what?
But they're already in at that point.
They're in.
They just keep coming back.
Just can't get away from it.
According to experts.
According to the experts, they know.
There's also the fact that many followers of cults have already rejected mainstream religions, and these cults often offer a different, better path to God or a higher power.
Yes, and as we already mentioned, the leaders will isolate the followers and make them forget about their old lives, their old friends and family and the such.
How they typically do this is by brainwashing them to believe that it's an us-versus-them world, as in us believers and those non-believers.
And anyone who doesn't believe that, they're going to hell.
Right. And they get them to hate their real families, and their families are completely cut off, and that affects them in negative ways, both the individual and the families.
Yeah. And they then turn everything over to them, all their money and their assets.
They do this because they're master manipulators, master charmers.
And then after all the love bombing, the new recruits are now fully in the cult.
And they might not even realize it.
Right. And now that they're in, they go through a series of different humiliations, right?
They're ridiculed.
They're mentally abused.
Some leaders also get the followers to write down statements of their mistakes in life, their secrets, and all that sort of stuff.
Then they'll use those things against the person to shame them publicly and further break them down.
And yeah.
Up to this point, we've mentioned brainwashing a few times.
What the leaders typically do is they isolate these broken people who are just looking for salvation or whatever.
So the leader goes through all the techniques we've already mentioned and many others, but they simply repeat the same lies and distortions until a person is unable to differentiate between the cult life and the real life.
And what helps with that is the use of spreading false paranoia.
The leaders will often go to great lengths to convince the followers that there are others outside the group who are out to get them.
And that being where they are with these other followers and this enigmatic leader is the safest place to be.
It's a false sense of comfort.
They'll tell them that the government is after them and that the group and that they need to stay together and stand strong or that any number of various groups are often out to get them and take them down and even that their families don't actually love them and that their families are just going to destroy their lives.
So the leaders repeat these lies over and over for extended periods of time, and the followers usually just believe everything they're told, and they get deeper and deeper in, and then they just don't feel like they can even leave.
That's so scary, man.
Jim Jones used all of those manipulations perfectly until he pretty much fucked everything up himself.
Oh, he did fuck it up for sure.
He lied to all of his followers about Guyana.
There was nothing there for them, but he told them everything was ready and it was a paradise.
But when they got there, there was nothing.
They had to build everything themselves and they failed at farming the land because it was horrible land and it was hot.
And they just had tin roofs and shacks.
I mean, they were just struggling out there.
Yeah, and that will be a fun story to cover.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Colt leaders will also encourage followers to basically spy on other followers and make sure everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing, but more importantly, not doing what they are.
Yeah, like, with Roche.
A wife couldn't peg her husband without permission.
Man! And most likely Roche would have to watch.
That's pretty messed up, bro.
Yeah, that situation is just revolting in every way, man.
And all of those previously mentioned tortures were just a taste of the horrific abuse.
I mean, it's just an overview of some of the tortures that he inflicted on the very people who, like, you know, looked up to him and protected him and stuff.
But, listeners, the abuse gets much worse.
This is crazy stuff.
Remember how Roche would have his poor, poor followers sit on the red-hot stovetop to prove their allegiance to him or whatever?
Oof. Of course.
Okay, well, there were other shows of devotion that these unfortunate people put themselves through.
There were many occasions where he would have his followers break their own legs to show their undying dedication to him.
That is so...
I can't imagine, like, okay, like, someone like, if you're gonna show me that you care...
You're going to break your own books.
Like, I couldn't do it.
I'd be like, ah, shit, I'm out of the cult, man.
I don't get it, though, because it's like he's having his followers injure themselves, and they're the anthill kids, right?
Because they work a lot.
But if you have all these followers with broken bones, they can't work.
So that's kind of detrimental to the whole purpose of the cult, right?
Absolutely. I mean, like, there goes one of your main usefulnesses.
Yeah, for sure.
And there were other occasions where he demanded that his followers shoot each other in the shoulder.
Oh my gosh.
With what I presume would be a.22 caliber, but I'm not sure.
Yeah, it's actually just a.45, you know?
Fuck, dude.
Just take your whole shoulder off.
Bro, seriously?
Yeah, man, not cool.
Now, Scott, you cherish your fingers and your toes, right?
I mean, about as much as the next human.
Because you play slide guitar with your toes all the time.
Well, I mean, you know, I also play the piano with my toes, but...
True. I mean, I'm not trying to toot my own horn here.
With my toes.
Oh, man.
Yeah. Well, so Roche's followers' fingers and toes would be cut off to show their allegiance to Papa Roche.
Oof, that is so brutal.
And they would often be stripped naked and whipped.
And this particular abuse was named purification.
And it would be inflicted upon the adults and children alike.
And pretty much every form of abuse and torture was inflicted on both the children and the adults.
They would be hung from the ceiling by ropes, sometimes by the feet, sometimes by the wrists.
And remember, Roche is directing his followers to help him do these things to the other followers.
And remember, these are married people, both legitimately and illegitimately, and the children are theirs.
And sometimes he would physically be involved, and other times he would be off to the side watching and telling them what to do.
And of course, there were certain transgressions that called for certain punishments.
The children would be nailed to trees, apparently through their hands.
Oh my gosh.
And while being stuck there, not able to move around, the other children would then be told to throw rocks at them.
Wow, that is so extreme, and I just can't even imagine what that would have...
No, it's terrible.
And Roche would also perform extremely shoddy circumcisions on both the boys and adult men.
And he would do so without any proper knowledge in the procedure of the socially accepted child abuse and body mutilation and without any form of anesthesia.
Obviously. And remember, there was never any form of anesthesia or painkillers for the victims during any of these horrors that they would endure.
Nothing whatsoever, no matter what happened to them.
They were forced to deal with it soberly.
Right. Because if you remember, guys, from the last episode, he didn't even like people going to the doctor just for regular stuff, let alone this crazy shit.
No. And on one occasion, while he was heavily intoxicated, which was just about always at this point in time...
Roche placed a rubber band around the tender berries of one of the men, and about eight hours later, his sack was very swollen and it became infected.
Due to this infection, Roche thought that he needed to do an emergency surgery to remove the testicles, else the man die in agony.
And so, with common household tools, he would perform this unnecessary surgery.
Oh, common household tools.
Like what?
I'm assuming he used either gardening shears, scissors, or a knife, or maybe all three.
Jeez. Yeah.
And at any rate, after removing this poor man's balls, Roche took a preheated, red-hot, hot iron and cauterized the wound.
Can you fucking imagine?
Oh, no.
Man, I know you see that stuff in the movies, but nobody does it in real life.
Dude, no, man.
This isn't the equalizer, you know?
God, I can't even imagine.
Okay, so this next part is pretty fucking terrible, as if none of this other stuff was.
Right, right.
But I've heard and read numerous accounts of this, but they're all somewhat similar, and what I've noticed is that essentially everything that is reported to have happened to this boy did happen to him, but the sequence of events in each account are different.
So after reading the multiple accounts and piecing it together, I think this is what happened.
In 1981, two-year-old Samuel Gilgrary, who belonged to someone in the cold, was having difficulty urinating and was crying as a result.
I don't know what the problem was, but most likely a UTI or possibly a kidney stone.
But Roche, being the total shit-tard that he was in his drunken stupor, thought that he could fix the problem by performing surgery on the boy's penis.
In the meantime...
Before that surgery was to go down, apparently a guy named Guy Veer was either ordered to beat the boy or he became irritated with the boy's crying and started to beat him on his own volition without being ordered to do so.
Either way, Guy Veer did beat the two-year-old boy and he beat him very, very bad.
Man, just to even like think that this was okay.
I mean, this just goes beyond like defies like normal human.
Rationality and explanation, but just what a horrible, horrible thing.
Once prepped and ready for the surgery, Roche began to cut the shaft of the boy's penis, and obviously the boy began crying fiercely because who the fuck wouldn't?
Roche continued with the surgery until he decided that he completed the job, or most likely he became bored with that part of the surgery because there is more.
And then apparently, Roche and Gabrielle Lavallee, who was a nurse, Decided to cut the boy's abdomen open with scissors and proceeded to inject rubbing alcohol into his stomach.
Just the raw ignorance of the whole situation, too, just makes it all the much more frightening.
There's another account that says that it was at this point that Guy Veer began to beat the boy rather than before, but I'm speculating that he beat the boy before the fucked up surgery and after.
And he must have been the last person to inflict abuse on the boy because two days later, after Samuel Gagari had died from all of these injuries, everyone decided to have a sort of town hall to discuss what should be done to Guy.
Oh, wow.
Okay, so there was like a reaction.
See, I was kind of thinking and, you know, I don't familiarize myself too much with the course of these events, like before we do a podcast, because I do like to be surprised and I do like to hear.
You know, like, have a genuine reaction to these things.
So I was thinking that the cult was going to go kind of just turn a blind eye to it and not do anything.
So it's kind of surprising to me that there's a reaction now at this point.
Yeah, it's a strange reaction, and there'll be more after this, too.
But it astounds me, man.
This whole thing is just crazy.
Yeah. But it was agreed that the punishment for beating the child, because they placed all the blame on Guy Veer.
For this child's death, okay?
Oh, yeah, of course.
Like, cutting his penis, mutilating his penis and cutting his stomach open and, like, injecting, rubbing alcohol into his stomach.
None of that mattered.
It was just a guy of yours beating, you know?
Right. It's just, what the fuck?
So it was agreed that the punishment for beating the child, the man should be castrated.
Oh, okay.
Hmm. Alright?
Considering the psychological dynamic of this fucked up dysfunctional cult, I'm sure Guy Veer was just like, Well, you're right.
I guess it's my due punishment.
Let's get on with it now so I can get back to shoveling those rocks and chopping wood.
Not the work you want to be doing directly after having your balls cut off.
So they took what was reportedly a dull razor blade and proceeded to cut the man's balls off.
Which either took a long time because Roche is a dick, or Roche aggressively chopped away at the scrotum and at the vas deferens with no care because, you know, Roche is a dick.
The wound was cauterized, and I don't know what they used to cauterize this wound, but we know that every tool they used was some random household item, so this was probably a hot plate or something like that, as that had been used to cauterize other wounds.
Whatever it was, it would have had to have been small enough to fit in that specific area and get hot enough to cauterize.
Right, but at any rate...
Roche had that other problem on his blood-red hands, you know, Samuel Gilgrary, the two-year-old who they just murdered.
Roche knew he had to get rid of the boy's body, and so, naturally, as any leader would do, he had the members take him out and burn his remains.
As to account for Guy Ver's injuries, in case any word got out about the situation, the story was that he was trampled by a horse.
So this horse tramples his balls, crushes them like a nutcracker, and Saroche has to perform the emergency surgery necessary to save Guy's life.
Yes, I'm sure any person would see this whole group of people and be like, oh yeah, I'm sure it was a horse that trampled this guy's balls, for sure.
Again, stories on this part differ a little bit, but ultimately say that the truth eventually got out somehow, like very soon afterward.
And one prominent story is the one that Scott will go into now.
So later that night, the now eunuched Guy Veer decided that he needed to get out of there and he escaped the property ASAP.
Once he was able to, he went straight to the police.
He spilled the sporks on the activities going on inside the Colts grounds.
Well, very soon afterward, the police raided the anthill kids' mountain lair, possibly the following morning, but you never know.
There, the cops found corroborating evidence to support the man's claims and arrested Roche and six of the followers.
They were all charged with not only the murder of two-year-old Samuel, but also the castration of Guy.
Guy, however, was not charged with beating Samuel, and I think that either he made some kind of deal with the prosecutor, or they took mad pity on him since he had been horribly castrated in some cabin in the woods, or maybe the beating didn't actually take place, and that was an exaggerated story.
But the point is, everyone charged was found guilty of something, but only Roche and three others were found guilty of essentially performing an unlicensed medical procedure resulting in the death of a child, and they were sentenced to a prison
term.
So, Coop, how much time do you think each of them received for being involved in the death of this two-year-old child?
Well, I mean, I know the answer to this.
It's just for the posterity of the show, man.
All right.
Well, I'm going to have to say that they each got between nine months and one year.
Whoa! That's a very good guess.
Yeah? Yeah.
You were right.
That's exactly what they got.
You know, I'm astounded, Scott.
Only nine months to one year.
That is incredible, isn't it?
Absolutely. It doesn't make any sense.
And unfortunately, this didn't really bring any major attention to the cult by law enforcement, which you'd think they would just bust the whole thing up and say, hey, you're not allowed to be here anymore.
You'd think.
But there was absolutely no real investigation into this or into the inner workings of what was going on up there.
Not only that, but early on, Roche was able to procure church status for his cult.
So what this did for Roche and his, quote, congregation, if we can call them that, was that it made it nearly impossible for the Canadian government to do any investigations because they didn't want to infringe on anyone's personal rights to religious freedoms.
So that was something that the Canadian government did not want to be involved in because it was such a hot topic at the time and a very touchy one.
You didn't want to mess with that at that point where we were.
In society.
Yeah, I mean, now you can mess with religion all you want.
It's the Wild West.
Yeah. They did not want to meddle in any religious issues, so they simply just turned a blind eye to them.
So the police didn't like Roche's and his, you know, they didn't like his religion, but they just didn't want to find themselves facing any political or religious lawsuits and having the public uprise against them.
They wanted to avoid that as best they could.
Now, this isn't an excuse.
I'm just trying to shed light on kind of where they were at and why the authorities didn't sort of act more authority-ish at the time.
And churches, even to this day, are basically self-governing entities, especially the Catholic Church, as we all know.
The Vatican City, or officially the Vatican City State, is its own country, the smallest country that is landlocked.
And it actually has got its own coat of arms, its own flag, and about 121 acres or about 49 hectares.
And has a population of about 800 people.
And since it's landlocked, the population can't really increase unless they start building skyscrapers specifically for housing, which I'm sure they will eventually do.
Just gather some of that money.
It's either that or we'll have a repeat inquisition.
So I kind of hope it's the skyscrapers.
So the Canadian government didn't want to get involved in any religious or any potentially religious legal battle that could ensue if they tried to go in there into the Ant Hill Kids cult.
But while the government itself didn't want to be directly involved, Child Protective Services were dispatched to the property and removed some of the children by law.
Some of the children.
Right, I know.
The emphasis is some of the children, not all of the poor abused children.
I just, yeah.
I mean, why do anything if you're not going to just do it all?
It's almost worse.
They take some and leave some.
That doesn't make any sense.
And unfortunately, some weeks or possibly days later, the children were returned to the cult.
Ah, man.
And there was also a psychiatric evaluation done on Roche, and the therapist determined him to be, quote-unquote, normal.
And there were even a few police officers who thought that the children should be back at the commune with their family.
And in the meantime, Roche and the others did their paltry time for brutally murdering a toddler and were released to go back to the commune.
Not much is really known about what went down, like, at the commune while Roche served his time, but I'm guessing that they had to double down on selling their rhubarb pie and strawberry fritters since Roche wasn't there to carve his wood.
Yeah, that's a good insight there.
In 1984, Roche would move the colt to a place called Burnt River in Ontario, Canada, where he pays a hefty $12,000 for a sprawling 200-acre chunk of land.
Once set up in their new spot, they had to get down to business on supporting themselves financially.
They decided on making and selling jams and preserves, maple syrup, breads, and smoked fish, along with all of their other usual baked goodies.
But because of the circumstances surrounding the death of Samuel Gagrary, and the fact that Roche was this strange leader of an equally strange, strict religious commune, the police began to keep a closer eye on the group.
Oh, okay.
So, they do have a heads up on them.
They're just like, yeah, keep an eye on this rugged, weird bunch of woods hippies with their gems and jellies, man.
Do you know why it's actually called Burnt River Coop?
You know, I didn't actually find the time to read into that part of it, so please do share.
So, in the 1920s, some drunk guy drove his truck into the town's gas station pump, which severed the gas lines that led to a very large storage tank for the gasoline.
And remember, back in those days, they didn't have the underground storage tanks that we have today.
Everything was above ground.
So there was so much gasoline that it poured down the main street and into the nearby fast-moving river.
The gas ignited almost immediately and engulfed many buildings.
Once the flames hit the river, the current swiftly carried them downstream, and according to legend, 18 miles of the river were in flames.
That's fucking metal as fuck!
And that is the legend of Burnt River.
We should visit.
But as they were settling into their new area...
They were doing fairly well in sales of their goods, but Roche needed his booze, so he pretty much kept all the money to himself, as these cult leaders usually do.
And it's said that the people of Burnt River generally accepted this weird commune into their quiet community.
They sort of just left them alone out there in the woods to do their thing.
They weren't causing any issues for the people of Burnt River, so Burnt River just went on with their lives.
And it is here that Roche came up with the name, the Ant Hill Kids, in reference to them all working like ants.
It is also here that Roche explicitly banned anyone from having any form of contact with anyone outside of their so-called religion.
Not only this, but he told everyone that he was now to be called Moses or Moise in his native French.
And come January of 1985...
Wait, wait.
1985 was a really iconic year.
Lots of shit was happening.
Just for the record.
January 1st, the first British mobile phone call is made by Ernie Weiss to Vodafone, and the Internet's first domain name system, DNS, was created.
January 5th, the ill-fated space shuttle Discovery is moved to its launch pad.
What is that?
I like it.
Yeah. January 13th, express train derails in Ethiopia, killing at least 428.
Holy fuck.
And January 16th, and you'll like this one, Playboy announces end of stapling the centerfolds.
Yikes, that was a horrible decision.
But also, in 1985, back at the Ant Hill commune, another child would die, this time an infant, nearly a newborn.
On January 26th...
Gabrielle Lavelli took her newborn baby, and yes, Roche was the father, and placed it outside in either a snowbank or in the snow on the ground.
It is said that she did this in order to save the baby from the horrible tortures that Roche was sure to inflict on it.
Later, when an autopsy was performed on this infant, it was determined that the baby died from Sudden Infant Death Syndrome, or SIDS, which is pretty fucking crazy to read, right?
Man, that is crazy, but...
Yeah, it suddenly died when it was placed out in the freaking snow.
But, you know, I mean, who knows what the hell was going on up there at this time.
Apparently, it was also around this time that another child, a minor child, was able to escape the commune and tell police that there was physical and sexual abuse happening at the compound.
Again, child protective services were sent in, and this time they took nine children.
But again, nothing happened to the commune, which makes no sense.
Other accounts say that the baby was killed in 1987 and that there were 14 children rescued.
And yet, other accounts say it was 17 children that were rescued.
Whichever is accurate, the ages of the children ranged from only 5 months old to 16 years old.
And whatever the number of children that were rescued, all would be placed in foster homes.
and sometime later, these children would eventually tell their foster parents what had actually gone down at the Ant Hill Kids commune.
Tales of sexual and violent abuse were consistent throughout each child's telling, and there was no doubt that they were not exaggerating a single fact.
Well, it's too bad that more people weren't rescued sooner.
It took this long and this much abuse before things to be stepped up to the point where people were being rescued, you know, these children.
But at least now we have some solid evidence, right?
Yeah. Coming forward that this cold is up to no good.
Things that can't be ignored at this point.
Right, and I think at this point, People are actually looking at the commune now.
People are actually focusing on what this place is.
Alright, so more date discrepancies.
So let's say on either September 28th or 29th of 1988, Solange Boyard, one of the female followers and wives of Roche, started to complain about some pretty bad stomach pains.
Uh-oh.
Shouldn't have done that.
And first of all, you'd have to assume that she held back the pain for as long as she could in order to keep...
You know, away from Roche in fear of what he would do, considering all the fucked up shit he's already done to this point with all the surgeries and whatnot, mutilations, you know, abuse, murders and shit.
So she'd probably want to keep it a secret as long as possible, right?
That's right.
She probably waited until it was absolutely terrible and she couldn't ignore it anymore.
But Roche knew that she was suffering from stomach pains, and in his constant drunken stupor, he formulated another surgical procedure that he allegedly convinced everyone would completely rid of her discomfort.
Roche told Solange to undress.
Once she did so, he ordered her to lay down on a table.
It was the kitchen table, I believe.
Solange laid down on her back and Roche immediately punched her in the stomach as hard as he could.
Yeah, that was necessary.
What is this?
And after that, he took molasses and olive oil and mixed the two.
And then took a funnel and gave Solange an enema using the molasses and olive oil mixture.
And now before you go all gung-ho on the use of molasses and olive oil in enemas, the practice of using both are actually very common.
Not necessarily together, but individually they are commonly used for enemas both for at-home use and in the hospital setting.
The Canadian Reader's Digest always has a section on home remedies, this being one of them.
But I'm not suggesting that you just go out and start doing it.
Might want to think twice.
No, do not.
Get an expert.
And remember, Roche did study quite a bit of medicine, more of at a hobby capacity, but he knew enough that he opened a homeopathy store.
Is it homeopathy or homeopathy?
I think it's homeopathy.
That's what I think.
And homeopathy is a practice which uses natural plants to make tinctures and healthy stuff, for those who are wondering.
And to be quite frank, it has become too expensive.
You know what else is expensive?
Molasses enemas.
Can't even imagine.
Must break the bank.
No! The toilet's broke.
Okay. As the enema was running its course, Roche then took a sharp object.
I'm not sure what exactly, but he cut an opening into her abdomen.
And once there was a sufficient opening, Roche reached into her intestines, feeling around for any fecal backup.
Whether he found any is unknown, but what we do know is that at this point, while using both hands, he found a section of intestine and literally ripped a part of it out, leaving too open to her intestines.
He took the rest of what was there and stuffed everything back into her abdomen.
Now, according to WebMD, there are anywhere between 300 and 500 different types of bacteria living inside of our intestines, so yeah.
Roche then ordered Gabrielle Lavelli to sew her abdomen wound shut since she was a real nurse.
And she did this with no hesitation.
So if we consider this, if he knew that what he did would certainly kill her, then okay.
But what if he didn't think it would kill her?
And what if he actually thought he was helping her?
Then what the actual fuck, man?
And if that's the case, then what the hell?
Coming from a guy who claims he's read so much about medicine, that he can perform surgery successfully, that he cuts this woman open?
Rips the section of her intestines out, stuffs everything back in without any attempt to sew the open ends, and sews her up, like he thinks this is going to heal her from her ailments.
I mean, serious mental health issues.
So he purposely caused a bowel perforation, which is extremely dangerous, and this can cause your stool and digestive fluids to leak into your other vital organs and stomach fluids, you know, like hydrochloric acid, would wreak absolute havoc on your vital organs.
So when this happens, the results are often internal bleeding with significant blood loss, peritonitis, or an inflammation of the inner abdominal wall, with serious if not permanent damage to the GI tract leading to sepsis, toxic shock, which is a life-threatening reaction to a serious infection.
Indeed. And now Solange is lying on the table, still on her back, her abdomen has just been sewn shut with fabric thread, and she lays there in excruciating pain.
But guess what?
That isn't the end of the procedure.
No, good God, man.
He then hands a rubber tube to a few of the other women and had them slide it down Solange's throat into her stomach and then blow air into her lungs.
I presume as a half-assed resuscitation attempt.
Blowing large volumes of air into her lungs was sort of to get the lungs to turn on and start inhaling and exhaling.
That was his intent.
The procedure was over.
And Solange was left right where she was on the kitchen table.
The following day, it was discovered that Solange was still in the exact same spot, lying in the exact same position, and it was found that she was dead.
Roche came to inspect it and left for a moment.
When he came back, he reminded everyone that he was a prophet.
He was Moses.
And since he was Moses, he also had the powers of resurrection.
Oh boy, what is this degraded human garbage gonna do now?
Everyone stood around waiting to hear the magnificent news.
Roche told everyone that in order to resurrect their friend Solange, they needed to drill a hole into her head.
I don't know how much hesitation there was, and I'm assuming not much, but a hole was drilled into Solange's head, or a piece of her skull was cut or chopped away.
I don't like where this is going.
The next step was to remove her uterus.
And you ready for this?
No, I'm not.
Ladies and gentlemen, it was then that Roche declared that every male had to masturbate and ejaculate into the hole in Solange's skull.
And this process was to be repeated for three days.
I'm not often speechless, but in this case, I am speechless.
Yeah, man.
And they all did it.
Everyone. They all did what they were told, and guess what?
Solange stayed dead.
Oh, you don't say.
And I just want to know, probably out of this entire thing, if I could just ask him one thing, I'd ask him...
What prompted you to come up with the idea to drill a hole into her skull and then have every man ejaculate into the skull onto her brain?
Like, did you actually think it would work or was it merely a sick, intentional act of mutilation and murder?
Yeah, like...
He read all of this religious material, right?
Both Old Testament and New Testament.
Like, where did he get this idea from?
Like, did he read it in there somewhere?
Like, just, you know, pervert the ideas into some strange, like, conversation where he was, oh, yeah, this is what they meant.
Well, it could be because, you know, the Bible is all up for interpretation, right?
So maybe there's a portion where he interpreted this surgery to work.
But after that three-day ritual, Roche ordered them to bury the body somewhere on the property.
And as they were getting ready to drag her body away, he stopped them and then cut out one of her ribs, which he put into a cloth bag that he had around his neck.
He wanted this part of her body to make into a lovely necklace ornament.
Okay. Yeah, he's just, um, you know, lost it.
There's nothing left, man.
There's nothing left.
I think he's lost it, bro.
They then took Solange's mutilated body outside and unceremoniously buried it.
And apparently there was another murder, which was also a quote-unquote mistake.
But this one involved one of his sons, who he was given a forced circumcision to.
And there was some sort of complication, and the boy had bled to death.
I mean, I'm not surprised at all at this point, but what is going on, man?
What's happening here?
And I'm not exactly positive as to when this happened, but it's pretty gnarly, so I figured it was later on rather than earlier on because, you know, there was this pretty significant progression of his abuses throughout this whole, you know, cult.
In the beginning, he would, you know, he would berate his followers verbally, and for the more severe infractions, he would beat them with a belt.
But as time went on, the abuses clearly became worse and worse and worse.
So, this, the murder of this boy was probably later on in this story.
And the boy's body was then buried somewhere on the property.
Now let's go forward to November of 1988, roughly two months after the brutal mutilation and murder of Solange.
Gabrielle Lavelli goes to Roche about a toothache.
What a roll of the dice, bro.
Why would you go to this guy about your toothache?
Don't you remember what happened when the last chick complained about a stomachache?
She sewed her up.
She was the one that sewed her up.
Yeah, she was the one.
Come on, man.
She's a participant in these murders and tortures.
And what do you think?
Yeah, she's like, oh, by the way, my toothache.
But Gabriel goes to Roche, telling him that she has a toothache.
Roche then has her held down, and she fully cooperates.
But Roche takes pliers and proceeds to pull out eight.
Of Gabrielle's teeth.
Eight. I'm starting to think, maybe she's into it, man.
Maybe she's like, pull my teeth out, man.
For you, dog.
Pull my teeth out.
I sewed up a woman's stomach for you.
Man. Well, she had a toothache.
The point here is she had a toothache.
One toothache.
And he pulled eight.
Damn! And some accounts say that this was punishment for poor pastry sales.
Ooh. Yeah.
That's tough management.
Yeah. You don't want poor pastry sales.
Yeah, no, man.
That's quite a business plan.
But, per his usual expertise in surgical procedures, to cure her toothache, he needed to do more than remove the tooth that hurt.
He needed to clear out a few other teeth because the cause of a toothache isn't just a tooth that issue, as we all know full well.
Roche proceeded to take a blowtorch and burn her with it.
What? Come on, man.
It's said that Roche burned her genitals.
After that, he cut out chunks of her breasts.
Literally cut out chunks of her breasts.
And I don't know what he did with these pieces of flesh, but to make it clear, there were never any allegations of cannibalism.
So what the hell is he doing with these chunks?
And so she's alive during this whole thing?
Yes. Okay.
Yes, sir.
She's alive.
And once done with removing portions of Gabriel's breasts with a knife, he took hypodermic needles and inserted them into her spine where he then broke the needles off.
Okay. So at this point, I'm sure he has to know that none of these are actually going to cure anything that's wrong with her toothache, right?
I think he's just lost his damn mind and his brain is pickled and he's just like a sadist at this point because it's the only inflicting pain on others is probably the only thing that gets him to feel anything.
I think so.
I think you're absolutely correct.
And there were accounts that say that after all of that, Roche then chased her around the cabin with a knife and slashed at her, and Gabrielle put her hands up to defend herself, and the blade cut a tendon in her hand.
This girl, just to make it through all that to the point where she's running around, like, she's a beast, clearly.
Man, and this woman, man, I don't know.
Alright, let's continue here.
Clearly, Gabrielle was in immense pain.
And once the abuses cooled down, Roche and the rest of the group just left her alone afterward, and she was able to finally come to her senses, and she escaped the commune later that night.
She got out of there, right?
But she could not resist going back to Papa Roche.
And after what appears to be about two to five months later, she returned to the commune, head hung in shame.
Ugh, well, I almost wonder too, like, if she would appear back down in whatever town they were in, if people would look upon her and just be like, ugh, get away from me, you freak!
Because she probably didn't look like a normal person after all this.
Right. So maybe she returned to the commune because it's all she knew.
Like, it's the only place where she quote-unquote belonged.
Yeah, it's the only place they feel like...
They're accepted, I guess.
Exactly. Yeah, exactly.
And she must have known that she would certainly be subjected to further abuses once back at the commune, you know, for running away.
But there's no way she could have believed that there would be no punishment for running away from the cult.
Of course.
And around May of 1989, Gabrielle Lavelli returned to the Ant Hill Kids commune.
She was accepted back into the group, but Roche was not pleased with her at all.
There are a couple of differing accounts here, but it is said that Gabriel was again chased by Roche with a knife, and once he had her subdued, he snipped one of her fingers off using wire cutters.
Damn! That's hard core.
Snip, snip.
Yeah. About a month or two later, the wound of the amputated finger became gangrenous, and Roche decided that he needed to perform another surgery.
Gabrielle did not want any further surgery from Roche.
Imagine that.
So she fought against his advances, you know, pushing him away.
No, leave me alone, leave me alone.
But this did nothing but anger Roche.
And he either forced her to spread out her hand with the gangrenous wound on the kitchen table or had others hold her hand out.
Then he took a hunting knife and just stabbed her hand, piercing it into the table so that she was unable to move.
Damn, Gabrielle, man.
I just feel so bad for this woman.
I know, man.
Just keeps going.
Roche then took a meat cleaver and chopped her arm off just above the elbow.
Some accounts say that he used a chainsaw, but it is a fact that he used a meat cleaver.
But honestly, I don't know which would be worse, man.
Yeah, because the chainsaw is going to rip and tear.
The cleaver is going to get it all off in one go, but it's just like the shock of it, though.
Oh, yeah, maybe.
Yeah, maybe.
It said her arm was removed above the elbow, so he's going through the bone.
So a meat cleaver...
Yeah, like the bigger...
You got like the two smaller-ish bones, like from your wrist to your elbow, and then from your elbow to your shoulder is a pretty decently thick bone.
Yeah, so to take a meat cleaver to that, he would have to have a few swings, right?
But a chainsaw would be pretty quick, right?
I suppose.
Depending if he was quick or slow with it.
Either way.
Who knows, man, but...
And then, using a heated piece of metal, he then cauterized the brutal wound.
Roche also used an axe handle to repeatedly hit her in the head throughout this entire abuse.
What the fuck, man?
But this was the final straw for Gabrielle.
And again, she escaped on the 16th of August, 1989, which was about a month later.
Imagine that.
She's just like, that's the last straw.
I'm not coming back.
I mean, obviously this woman wasn't right in the head to come back the first time after all that.
But just, you know, you still have to wonder, like, what's going on up there?
What's going on in general?
Yeah. You know?
And when she did escape for a second time, she went straight to a hospital.
And while there, she was interviewed by the police and she told them everything.
By this point.
Roche pretty much knew he was fucked.
He knew the police were going to come after him, so he ran off into the woods in an attempt to escape the Canadian manhunt.
And around October 6th of 1989, the police located Roche Terial hiding in the forest after several weeks of hiding out.
And originally, Roche Theriel pleaded guilty to three counts of aggravated assault and one count of unlawfully causing bodily harm, and he received 12 years in prison.
12 years in prison.
I don't know, man.
It still does not seem very heavy compared, like, just when you think about all of the stuff that he did.
Not at all.
Over the years of the shit that he did, too.
This wasn't just a one-time thing.
Yeah. To everybody.
All that shit.
And it wasn't until another member of the cult led the authorities to the body of Solange Boyard that Roche was then charged with murder.
So he subsequently pled guilty to second-degree murder in 1993 and was sentenced to life without parole until the year 2000.
Regardless of Roche being in prison, the commune went on as usual and several of his wives were allowed to visit him in conjugal visits, in which he further fathered at least four more children.
That just shows the level of the crazy, like, fanatic cult belief in this guy.
Like, he was their only family at that point.
Yeah. And Roche Terial was put in prison at the Dorchester Penitentiary.
Also at this prison was a man named Matthew Gerard McDonald, who was also convicted of murder and also serving a life sentence.
It was known to prison officials that McDonald had some issues with Roche.
And prosecutor Anthony Allman told CBS News that McDonald, quote, had expressed some animosity towards Mr. Terry All, end quote.
Specifically stating that the animosity was due to all of the abuse that Roche inflicted on the women and children.
And it's said that McDonald would regularly taunt Roche.
And Scott, on February 26th of 2011, a prison video showed McDonald walking over to Roche's cell.
He entered the cell and stabbed Roche to death with a makeshift knife referred to as a shiv or a shank.
Roche was 63 years old.
I mean, this behavior from another inmate towards him does not surprise me at all.
And after he killed Roche, McDonald walked over to where a couple of guards were stationed to keep a watch on the unit, and he placed the shiv on the counter and then told them bluntly, That piece of shit is down on the range.
Here's the knife.
I've sliced him up.
Matthew McDonald pled guilty to second-degree murder and received another life sentence.
And that is a fucked-up story of Roche Terriol and the Anhill Kids cult of Canadian fame.
Oh, man!
Well... I have to say, like, some of the things that stood out to me about this were just the brutality that he was allowed to get away.
Like, the level that the cult sank to and where they were not comfortable necessarily, but just allowed this to happen without more people trying to escape.
And yeah, sure, they were probably far away.
They were up this mountain.
I mean, who knows where the hell you'd have to go to.
They probably felt really isolated out there in the middle of nowhere.
But the kids, I mean, the crazy procedures, I mean, it's just, like, ridiculous.
It's a lot.
And I mean, keep in mind, this was like through the 80s and early 90s.
A different time.
Especially in Canada, it was a different time for sure.
I suppose.
So what do you say?
Do we have time for one email?
Oh yeah, we can sneak one in real quick.
Alright, well let's hear that.
Okay, well, let me pull up the listeners' emails here.
Thank you guys, by the way.
This one was sent to us from Hannah A. from the land down under.
Hell yeah, super stoked to have some listeners in Australia.
Fuck yeah.
Yeah, super awesome.
Well, Hannah A. says...
I'm just gonna try to do her voice here.
This show's a fucking riot.
I've been listening for about a month or so, and I just listened to your Paul Stephen Hyde episode.
Having listened to a few of the previous shows beforehand, I was hoping you guys would make a special one for us, cunts, and I wasn't unimpressed.
The voices are fucking hilarious.
I've been telling my friends about the show, so hopefully you'll have a few more listeners from some true blues.
Talk to you later, you cunts.
Thanks so much, Hannah A. from Australia.
Keep listening in, and we're stoked to have you as a listener.
Yeah, that's really great.
I don't know if she had to call us those names necessarily, but nah, just kidding.
We're total cunts.
Trust us.
We're total cunts.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah, you can email us with story suggestions or just reach out to say hello.
Our email is paranautica at gmail.com.
That's P-A-R-A-N-A-U-G-H-T-I-C-A at gmail.com.
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With that, thank you all.
Good morning, good evening, good night, wherever you are.
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