Email: paranaughtica@gmail.comTwitter: @paranaughticaFacebook: The Paranaughtica Podcast Ko-Fi: You can help us out by donating to the podcast through either a 'one-time' donation or a monthly donation, and trust us, we would greatly appreciate it! You can find our Ko-Fi at our Facebook page! Paypal: You can also donate through Paypal to help out the show! You can find our Paypal at our Facebook Page!Today we are heading on over, or down....under? .....to that big orangish/red chunk of land on maps that we're told can be very very hot in the summer, yet just perfectly 75 and 100 degrees Fahrenheit, or about 24 to 38 degrees Celsius, on the east coast.....Australia. Australia is amazing. Really cool landscape, really amazing variety of animals, really intense history, really nice people, and really crazy criminals. And, ...so much more that we simply don't want to type right now.But todays story is about Paul Steven Haigh. A serial killer who was just a plain dick. Side note. Apparently, one in seven Crims sent off to the penal colony that is present day Straya, ...were women. Crazy. That comes from Wikipedia so don't get mad at us for it if it's not true.Anyway. This is a pretty crazy story about a dude that just gave zero fucks about everyone else and if he had his sights set on a person or place to rob or assault, well, he'd do it. This description simply won't give the actual episode the credit it deserves. But, it is a really good episode. Give it a listen!Sources: http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/vic/VSC/2009/185.html?stem=0&synonyms=0&query=haigh#disp7http://murdersvictoria.blogspot.com/2012/12/https://www.smh.com.au/national/vic-serial-killer-was-victim-of-illness-20121206-2ax2m.htmlhttp://media.heraldsun.com.au/crime_online_pdfs/Haigh_confesses_to_two_robbery_murders.pdfhttps://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/98795797/inside-the-minds-of-some-of-australias-most-notorious-murderershttps://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/im-no-longer-a-monster-says-serial-killer-20121203-2aqin.html Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
I think the most popular rite of passage is to box a kangaroo and then escape a maximum security prison.
I mean, not necessarily in that order, but definitely you have to be before the age of 12. Well, that isn't totally correct.
Really? No, the age was changed to 10 due to all the ruse getting too good of a bashing.
Oh. Yeah.
Yeah, I suppose it was probably a little unfair to the ruse, but...
Yeah. Well, what the hell was I reading?
Oh, boy.
Did you know that the camel was introduced to the land of Oz that is Australia in the mid-1800s?
I'm thinking from Saudi Arabia because that's where they actually export many of the camels from.
And those camels have, like, fully proliferated the lands from coast to coast.
There are officially more camels than people.
That's insane.
So, yeah, bringing them home, I guess.
The battle is over.
The railroad has been built.
The people are happy.
The camels are happier.
But apparently, they love the climate.
I did not know any of that, other than camels living the climate of Australia.
I mean, shit, I love the climate of Australia, and I wish that someday, somehow, I too can experience what so many lucky camels get to experience.
Oh, well, maybe that's why they call it the lucky country, because of all the lucky camels.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
Speaking of camels, we need to make a little correction here.
In our Pets You Murder episode a few weeks back, we said that the camel isn't necessarily the Aussie's first choice of meat, but apparently...
Yes, we got your emails, True Blue Straya.
They eat the roux regularly.
And I found this out.
True Blue is actually slang for being a genuine Australian, and Straya is slang for Australia.
That's our bad, Australia.
We want to get as much right as possible on this show, but we aren't always going to be absolutely correct.
But we do try.
It's all about trying, right?
It's the thought that counts, you guys.
While we strive for perfection here, we don't always achieve it.
Not always.
Nearly, though.
But did you know this?
I didn't know this.
This is crazy.
Australia apparently has the longest fence in the whole world.
Really? It's an astonishing 5,614 kilometers or about 3,488 miles.
It actually stretches from Jimboer on the Darling Downs in South Australia and stops in Eyre Peninsula on the cliffs of the Noel Arbor Plains in Queensland.
No, I did not know that either.
That's pretty freaking cool.
What is the purpose with this fence, though?
I can't see it being an issue, you know, that is in any way synonymous with the fence that so many delusional human beings want to build here.
This fence, called the dingo fence or dog fence, was built in the 1880s to keep the ruffian that is the dingo out of the southeast part of Australia and away from the precious sheep.
It's a wire mesh fence about six feet high or about 1.8 meters.
Well, the U.S. could save a lot of money, as if that really mattered, if they just built a similar fence.
It would be just as effective as the one that's there now.
Maybe more so.
I mean, you never know, man.
You really don't.
Hello, dear listeners, and welcome to another groundbreaking episode of the Paranautica Podcast.
It is a pleasure to have you here with us once again, or maybe it's your first time.
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Ass set of stickers to toss your way, bro.
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Alright, so before we go any further, let's make a couple of corrections.
Well, I mean, first of all, last week, we each picked one of those weird fetishes that we mentioned during the show, and we didn't know what they meant.
I mean, we kind of have the general idea, I guess.
Well, we know now.
I chose munging, unfortunately for me.
So this comes from the Urban Dictionary.
Munging is when you go to a graveyard, dig up a body, preferably female, have a gangbang.
Each dude ejaculates inside the corpse.
Gross. Then one of the dudes puts his mouth over the vagina.
Someone jumps onto the corpse, and the stomach...
Pushes air through the rest of the body, expelling everything from the inside into the dude's welcoming mouth.
That is munging.
Ew! That's so disgusting.
I don't even know, like, why, why, why, why?
I mean, who came up with it, first of all, slash the word and the term, first of all?
But yeah, anyways, what did you choose again, Coop, last week?
Do you remember?
What was that?
Oh, I chose ham wallet or ham walleting, I guess.
And tell the listeners what that is, bro.
Yeah, yeah.
So ham walleting is the act of shoving something up your vagina to hide it or steal it or whatever.
The world's happy to know that you chose ham walleting as your sex fetish of choice.
Yeah. I don't have a vagina.
I have a penis.
I have 23 pairs of X and Y chromosomes and no chemical or procedure is going to change that fact.
Oh man, taking a hard stance on being a dude.
I like it.
I am standing tall here with that one.
Yeah, you are.
Literally, I'm like 8 feet tall.
It's true.
He's ungodly tall.
And that reminds me...
That reminds me of some tales that we're going to get into.
Not animal tales, but stories, rather.
And everybody's favorite segment appearing early on our show today.
Train! Yes, man!
It's the best.
Gotta love that.
Love that intro.
The first story comes to us from the New York Post.
There is an update on the Delphi murders as of June 25, 2023.
Prosecutors say that a man arrested for the 2017 murder of two teens in Indiana has actually confessed several times to the murders while he's been behind bars.
Interesting. What do you think of that?
Who is he saying this to?
These are just like random confessions that he has made several times while he's been incarcerated, which his defense team...
To other inmates.
Yeah, to other inmates.
Yeah, exactly.
To just like no one in particular, but just like while he's been behind bars, oh, I did it, I did it.
But his defense team is rushing to sort of just basically claim that these are unreliable confessions, that he's mentally unstable.
And I mean, if you look at his pictures, if you look at Richard Allen's pictures, who's 50 years old at this point, He does not look good.
He doesn't look healthy.
He doesn't look of sound mind.
You look at the pictures of when he was booked and he was a full, normal-looking person, and you look at him now and his most recent appearance even, and he's just like a skeleton, honestly.
Typically, the legal team has trouble proving that these statements are not made of sound mind, but honestly, I think they probably have a real shot here of proving that.
And so Richard Allen, he was arrested for killing the two teens where Abby Williams, who was 13, and Libby German, who was 14 at the time.
Yeah, exactly.
And the police haven't listed exactly how these teens were murdered because the trial is ongoing.
It'll be set for next year.
But they have said that they did find an unspent case or an unspent bullet, I should say, from the suspects.
I mean, they don't really say, but it's got to be the suspect's gun.
But apparently this unspent round ties him to the not only to the murder scene, but to the actual murders themselves.
So, I mean, one could surmise that maybe he shot his victims.
It doesn't say for sure.
But I mean, that's kind of what they're insinuating.
Man, I guess we'll see what happens with that.
And we'll definitely follow that when it happens next January, I believe, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
It's just...
I'm disgusted by the case and these...
Yeah, it's horrible.
It'll be interesting to see what direction it goes.
Richard Allen's trial begins in January of 2024.
Yes, sir.
Speaking of horrible things, our next story comes from DailyMail.com.
This was posted on June 5th of this year, 2023.
Apparently a mother and daughter have been accused of killing, well, not just killing, but also dismembering the mother's mother, the grandmother.
Oh my god.
71-year-old, yes, yes.
71-year-old Margaret Craig is the victim in this case.
The mother, Candace Craig, 44, is accused of getting into an argument with this woman and then killing her and then dismembering her body, enlisting the help of her daughter, Salia Hardy, who was 19 years old at the time, to dispose of the remains.
Isn't that fucked up, bro?
What prompted this?
Apparently, they got into a dispute.
Jesus. Yeah.
It's literally just a dispute.
And she just went off the rails, killed her.
The daughter was living there at the time, too.
And the mother actually extorted her.
She threatened to turn her into the police for apparently some fraudulent use of the credit card.
Or maybe she just used the credit card and she was going to tell the police that it was fraudulent use, even though she actually had her permission.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
Or use it herself.
Yeah, right.
And then blame her daughter anyway.
Exactly. So either way, it was a blackmail type situation.
And so her daughter went along with it.
They used a chainsaw to cut up the body.
They tried to burn some of the remains on a charcoal grill.
So disgusting.
Apparently a friend who's unidentified at this point of Margaret Craig, the 71-year-old woman who was killed, called the police, called 911.
And said, oh, I haven't heard from her for a few days.
I'm worried about her well-being.
So when the police stopped by the residence for a welfare check, they smelt an odor.
So they searched the house and they found the remains.
They found the bloody chainsaw.
I mean, they found everything, bro.
They found everything.
The mother and the daughter are currently in custody.
And yeah, it'll just be interesting to see how that situation plays out.
They actually went through garbage bags that were just open right there, like around the kitchen or something.
Just open garbage bags, multiple.
And in some of those bags, they found brain matter.
Like, they just scooped the brains out, tossed the brains of these garbage bags.
Yeah, and not only that, but apparently after police started an investigation, they determined that the body had been dead for around a week.
So these remains were just like sitting around the house for like all of that time.
And I'm sure the stench was, I'm sure it was quite the stench.
But I don't know what the plan was because clearly they didn't do a good job.
So, you know, whatever the plan was, it was not being executed well.
Definitely was not planned at all.
Yeah. Spur of the moment.
Totally. Yeah.
You gotta manage your anger somehow.
Exactly. So they got God.
Jeez, and even the mother who killed the grandmother, she posted something on Facebook to her mom, the victim, saying, Happy Mother's Day to the number one woman in my life.
I hope you have an awesome and peaceful day.
I don't get to say this every day, but I love you very much.
To the moon and back.
Yeah, well, wasn't that sent nine days before the killing?
Yes, yeah, it was sent before the killing.
And then the attack happened nine days after Mother's Day.
That's what happened.
Exactly. Yes, exactly.
So, like, here you see this sort of incongruous message.
I love you so much.
Nine days later, murdered her.
Oh. Killed her.
Man. Yeah.
Crazy, bro.
Speaking of crazy, our third story comes to us from CNN.com.
Coop, you've heard about this missing Titanic sub, right?
No, I haven't.
No, I have not heard of a missing Titanic.
Oh, man.
Well, this is a huge story.
So apparently what was supposed to be a 10-hour journey to a Titanic shipwreck site ended in tragedy not too long ago with all five passengers missing and presumed dead under the ocean.
Recently, authorities have confirmed...
That what happened was the vessel actually imploded under the water at about 16,000 feet, if you could imagine that.
Fuck. Yes.
So an implosion, for those of you who don't know, would be a sudden inward collapse of a vessel.
And apparently it's unclear at this point exactly how deep the submersible, which is named Titan, was when the implosion occurred.
But the Titanic wreck sits about 13,000 feet or so under the ocean surface.
Which is about 4,000 meters.
Yep, that's about 4,000 meters.
And apparently the submersible was about an hour and 45 minutes into the roughly two-hour descent when it lost all contact with the ship above sitting on the surface, kind of waiting for it, you know?
So they didn't know at the time.
A search began, like, where's this vessel?
Can we find these people?
And just today, I believe, or maybe it was late last night, authorities confirmed that...
Yeah, everybody has passed.
The submersible has imploded.
They actually found pieces of wreckage at the bottom in a debris field on the ocean floor.
Yeah, it's just tragic.
And there were five crew members on board?
Yeah, there were five crew members on board, including a high-profile British billionaire, which, I don't know if you saw this, Coop, but his son...
I'm going to leave his name out for now.
But apparently his son made the news because while this huge search was going on for this missing submersible, he was at a Blink-182 concert just like, oh yeah, I'm having a great time at this concert.
His stepdad's missing under the ocean and he was reported as saying, my stepdad would want me to be here.
He knows this is my favorite band.
I'm not Lee.
I'm going to stay here.
You know what I mean?
Say it ain't so.
Yeah, bro.
Say it ain't so.
I will not go.
Turn the lights off.
Carry me home, bro.
Wow. Yeah, so that shows where the priorities were.
But yeah, it's a huge tragedy.
And apparently there's a big investigation that's getting launched into it because...
Yeah, by the Canadian government, right?
Yes, yes, by the Canadian government.
Because apparently there's a theory going around that the materials that were used to build the sub...
May have been far past their integrity used by.
So this is like a private guy who just purchased all this material from some used seller or something and just built his own submarine.
Is that what happened?
Exactly. The rumor is that it might even have come from one of James Cameron's old submersibles.
Interesting. He was done.
He was like, I'm not going to use this anymore.
We've used the hell out of it.
And then it was purchased secondhand.
And oh no, we're still going to use it.
And then different submersibles were made.
That is unconfirmed at this point.
But yeah, that's just crazy.
So faulty materials going to the submersible.
Apparently each ticket costs $250,000.
These people wanted to go down a private tour.
They go down to check out the wreck of the Titanic on the ocean floor.
And instead, they paid for their lives.
You will never find me stepping into a sub.
You will never find me going underwater.
Something that far down.
I just don't need to see it.
I don't need to risk my life for that.
So they knew something was wrong.
They launched the investigation and the search and tried to find the vessel for days because they knew approximately how much life support the craft was supposed to have left.
But it was just a non-issue because, you know, if the craft implodes, it doesn't matter.
Done. Wow.
Everybody. It says, like, at the depth that they were, the pressure was equivalent to 5,500 pounds of force.
So they were just instantly crushed.
I guess, on all sides.
On the one hand, at least it was, you know, it was over quick.
That's sad.
That's sad.
Yeah, that's a bummer.
And that's it for our sad Trey for Trey today.
Oh, boy.
Trey for Trey.
Thank you very much for tuning in.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, if you haven't caught on to the location of today's show yet, we are heading over to that strange distant continent that looks like it needs me in it.
And why are we going there?
Because we are going to cover the story that is Paul Stephen Hay.
Today's episode is about a cold-blooded killer from the great lands of Lucky Country, the land of the long weekend, Oz.
That's right.
Australia, goddammit!
Sweet! Today's episode is for our diehard Australian fans, and we hope we give this story justice.
Absolutely. This one's for you guys.
This one's for you mates out there.
I just want to point out that there is not a whole lot of information available on Paul Stephen Hay, and what I mean is that apparently he hasn't really been covered all that much by our fellow true crime aficionados.
What YouTube videos there are of him are very short clips, like we're talking one to four minutes long, including an intro.
And I was only able to find a couple of podcasts that have actually covered this case to any great degree.
So yeah, the information on this guy is pretty scant.
Even Wikipedia is devoid of any information on it, which says a lot.
So that makes it all the more critical for us to just shine another light, get some more information out there, let this guy have his day, and just, you know, try to make for a more informed...
And so, to get the information, we had to scour the crud-encrusted bowels of the internet with our tongues, and it's nasty down there.
And we had to use unconventional research methods.
Indeed, we went to great lengths to uncover this man's diabolical and senseless crimes.
There was a lot of boot-licking, and a lot of hand-spitting, if you know what I mean.
Oh yeah.
The information gathered for this episode has come from a handful of sources straight out of Australia, and the best source available was actually court itself, as the majority of the information comes from court records.
Aside from that source, Paul Stephen Hay himself is a source due to the fact that he wrote a manuscript about his own crimes, which he called The House of the Blue Light.
And typically, this is seen as being fairly untrustworthy, as the vast majority of these types of criminals are rather narcissistic and sociopathic and will inflate the severity of their crimes in order to be perceived more heinous or more dangerous or threatening than they actually are.
Take Otis Toole and Henry Lee Lucas, for example.
Yeah, definitely.
I'm glad you brought them up, actually.
So both men were serial killers in their individual lives, but they also teamed up to kill as well, which is fairly rare.
The point being, though, is that both men were convicted of two and three murders respectively, but each of them claimed to have killed many more.
Yeah, Otis claimed to have killed over 100, while Henry claimed to have killed over 250.
Part of Henry's false confessions, though, were due to the fact that the police were trying to hurriedly close cases and partly because Henry was getting preferential treatment for his confessions, mostly in the form of strawberry milkshakes.
And boy, did he like those milkshakes.
Can't blame him.
He was a simple man, literally and figuratively, but he was also getting a lot of attention and a shitload of attention, and he really liked that.
But in Paul Hayes case, most of his written confessions were validated through investigations by authorities.
In Paul's case, we can see that he was so narcissistic and self-centered that he was bitterly honest about his crimes.
Paul Stephen Hay was as callous and as cold as they come.
His various offenses were premeditated at times, but at other times they were as spontaneous as yelling, motherfucker, just after barely stubbing your toe during a silent prayer ceremony at any number of packed to the brim religious centers.
It's very vivid imagery there.
Coop, thank you for that.
I know exactly what you're talking about.
And so...
As we go through this case and piece it all together, our man Scott here, our buddy.
Oh, hey, buddy.
Hey, man.
He will be voicing Mr. Paul Stephen Hay.
And let me tell you.
Oh. Yeah, his voiceover is absolutely impeccable.
The finest in the business.
Oi, get your bickies in a box.
This epi is no cactus.
It's a corker.
Pull up your decks and get ready for a real ear bashing.
We'll have a fair go at her.
We'll give it a burl and hope it's a good rip-snorter.
there'll be a pesh with the postie, and then you can say, Oi, I'm Rip, now rack off!
And don't even think about creating no fuffie.
We're no bludgers around here.
Spot on, man.
Are you Australian?
You know, I've been told that on occasion, every now and then, once in a great while, when the cow rears his head and the wolf cries at a blue moon, I sometimes might be reminiscent of a...
Holy crap.
All right.
Well, good to know.
And now before we move ahead, I just want to make a little correction here as well.
So in our very first episode about Sean Vincent Gillis, I read the Botanica Encyclopedia version of what a serial killer is, and it says that a serial killer is the unlawful homicide of at least two people carried out by the same person or persons in separate events occurring at different times.
To be clear...
Prior to writing the Sean Gillis episode, I was fully aware that the FBI statement still said that a serial killer would have to have at least three or more killings over a period of time with cooling off periods in between each killing.
I just wanted to clear that up, and this correction was emailed to us from Frogwambambay.
Oh, oh, Frogwambambay.
I hope he tunes in again.
Yeah, that would be great.
Yeah. Yeah, just thank you for sending us that correction.
I just wanted to make that clear.
Yeah, we appreciate anyone trying to keep us honest.
We're not trying to spread any disinformation.
So if you have a correction for us, send it in.
We will come out and correct it.
Abso-fucking-lutely.
And now, let's begin.
Paul Stephen Hay was born on September 5th, 1957.
He was raised mostly by his biological mother until he was about three months old.
Both of his biological parents decided that they could not raise the only child born to them and soon put him up for adoption.
He was taken in by his adoptive parents, but his childhood behavior would prove to be too difficult for them to handle as well.
This didn't stop them from trying, though.
They had him enrolled in primary school and once finished there, he was enrolled in the Swinburne Technical School, which was essentially a training center for troubled youth.
Ah, an indoctrination camp for children.
Very popular in those times.
While performing very well early on in his education, he began to lack academically as he neared and entered into the dreadful hormone-ridden teen years that we all have experienced.
Oh man, the dread.
The awful dread.
Those are the years of what would be one colossal four-year nightmare, bro.
Yeah, I agree.
Paulie wasn't very proficient in socializing and making friends or acquaintances either.
And from here on out, we will try our best to refer to him as Paulie, as it just seems more fitting.
Yeah, it kind of makes it more personal somehow.
But as we know, not being able to meet new people or make new friends or finding it difficult to socialize in general can be emotionally painful.
And as children, it can be stigmatizing as well, you know?
You remember the handful of kids in grade school that no one ever talked to, and if someone did talk to them, it was strictly to, like, bully them or say something negative?
Yeah, and a lot of times those kids just kind of wanted to be left alone.
I mean, it wasn't that there was anything wrong with them.
You know, a lot of them just didn't feel like they fit in and would rather keep to themselves, and, you know, they just felt kind of awkward in general, so they just tried to avoid other people.
Nothing wrong with that.
Nothing at all, man.
And at least in my experience, the ones that I knew that were like that, they may not have hung out with anyone at school during recess or whatever, but they had outside friends, you know, others, we'd call them, from other townships or provinces or villages and faraway lands and uncharted territory, where only monsters
of the worst kind the world over frolicked and ruled in greasy, orgasmic joy amongst themselves.
But Pauly's behavior was also deteriorating with age and proving to be severely troubling to anyone who took notice, such as, well, all of his parents and the youth courts.
Oh, yeah.
Eventually, people start to take notice when you start dicking off, man.
By the age of 14, it was clear to his adoptive parents that they could not control the boy no matter how they attempted to intervene or what efforts they put in to correct his abhorrent behavior.
But what would have been his freshman year of high school...
Paulie made it known that he had paved a different path for his life rather than follow the guidance of those who cared enough and tried to get him going in the right direction.
At this point, in his young, adventurous life, Paulie had already appeared in the children's court on many occasions for a variety of issues.
Between 1970 and 1979, so around the age of 12 or 13, Paulie would commit a number of offenses.
These offenses ranged from larceny for the theft of bicycles and motor vehicles.
Probably shouldn't tell you what I was up to this morning.
Causing malicious damage to property.
Oh, okay.
Some breaking and entering.
Ah, good old B&E, classic.
Being an unlicensed driver.
Oh shit, I have to have a license?
Behaving in an offensive manner in a public place.
Oh yeah, been there.
Escaping from legal custody.
Weren't you wondering how I was able to be here this afternoon?
Possession and use of illegal substances.
But what is illegal, though?
I mean, technically.
And some physical assaults.
Affection. The Children's Court had become very familiar with little Polly, to say the least.
Polly felt that his adoptive parents were...
My parents took my favorite pick of darts!
I mean, they're just being too restrictive and protective, mate!
What's a kid gotta do to get a jug of joy juice around here?
That's fucking ridiculous, mate!
It seems like it would have been a good thing for little Polly, but he only acted out more, and later in life, he himself would admit that he was.
Oi, I was a neurotic youngster who lived a sheltered life.
Rip your living gear around that.
And I had a religious upbringing?
No worries, mate, she'll be alright.
And I was bullied at school by all the ochres and yobbos, and if I ever spoke up against it, they'd just tell me to put a sock in it, bastards.
Me adoptive parents, as beautiful cunts as they were, they realised that my life was like a dog's breakfast.
And they knew they couldn't control the obstreperous boy that was me, a real rip-snotter.
And it was decided that I would be sent to Swinburne Technical School when I was 14 years old.
Better than a ham sandwich.
Better than a kick up the old backside, they told me.
Maybe I'd have a Buckley's even.
Aye, no one was pissing on me when I was on fire.
But you know what they say.
Six of one, half dozen of the other, mate.
And a psychiatrist who worked with Paul during those times would say of him, He admitted he might stuff up again if he was released.
Bueller. Bueller.
Bueller. He might even kill, but only with a good reason.
Education and religion provided no answers.
But he had learned to play the game.
Learned. To play the game.
And learned to...
Anyone? Anyone?
Manipulate people.
Manipulate people.
Bueller? Bueller?
Fry? That's scary.
That's scary, man.
Yeah, that's, I mean, at such a young age and already, it's just like, he's playing the game, he's out there, he's doing, I mean, he figured that part out, like, very quickly with astonishing rapidity, so.
Yeah, man, it's crazy shit.
So even being in a facility for troubled teens and being surrounded by like minds of similar age, Paulie still found it very difficult to make friends with anyone.
He was a total outcast.
When he was first sent to the institution, he quickly realized that he was at the bottom of the pecking order, which he found difficult to deal with, you know, being a little poly and all.
And after spending some time there and not getting on with any of the fellow troubled teens, nor the troubled staff for that matter, he decided that his best bet...
Would be to make a hasty escape and live out his days as he saw fit.
Ooh, man, he broke free and got out of there.
Unfortunately for him, he would soon be caught and sent back to the institution where he was put in the high security area where it would be much more difficult for little Pauly Le Pew to escape from.
As a punishment for his escape, Pauly was made to scrub the floors and the many shit-filled toilets that all those who disliked him made sure to give him a good go at it.
And get this, on top of that...
Poor Polly wasn't allowed such privileges as watching the television or smoking cigarettes.
Aw, can you imagine not getting your goddamn smokes when you're 14?
I'd lose me fucking marbles.
Fucking go troppo.
I'd turn that place over.
I'd light everything on fire.
You know what I mean?
Yeah. I personally do.
And I'm sure it was a complete hell for those poor children.
I mean, just imagine being in one of those types of places back in the day, like young kids, chain-smoking stogies like there's no tomorrow.
Yeah, cool.
Cursing like a sailor, getting all tatted up, like being hardened criminals at age 14, dude.
Just fistfights every minute, every hour.
Nuts. It's fucking crazy.
And these places were and are breeding grounds for fine-tuning their trade in the criminal world.
And learning new and better ways to earn money in that shady underworld, dude.
Yeah, and I strongly feel that many of these people who become these types of killers with this sort of background are mostly products of their environment to some great degree, right?
Oh yeah, I mean, there's studies out that say, like, the more you tell someone that they're a criminal, the more, like, a criminal they're gonna act.
And yeah, take Karl Panzram, for example, the turn-of-the-century serial killer and rapist who spent quality time in at least a hundred different jails and seven different prisons.
His story is fucking nuts, dude.
Yeah, man, his first arrest was in 1899.
He was eight, and he was arrested for being drunk and disorderly.
At eight years old.
But, you know, he would later say that he would only be allowed two hours of sleep after doing a shit ton of chores.
And that's before he would have to go to school.
And then he'd have to do it all over again.
He said his parents chained him up and they even starved him as forms of punishment.
And there were just like so many things that he could do or that he couldn't do.
And, you know, he put one toe out of line and bam, they wouldn't feed him.
So yeah, what the hell do you think you're going to breed?
Yeah, and by the age of six, he was already disliked by everyone around him due to him finding solace in all things that went against the status quo.
And like Pauly here, Panzerham was placed in youth facilities and reform schools all throughout his early days, which did nothing but fuel the rage inside of him.
But let's not divulge too much on Karl Panzerham, because we will be doing an episode on him in the near future.
Yeah, it's a very interesting story, so you guys will have to tune in for that one.
Definitely. And like Carl Panzram before him, Pauly wasn't very happy being where he was.
And he wasn't too keen on obeying the authority figures who presided over all of the teens.
But he was more than pissed that they presided over him.
This is when Pauly came up with another brilliant idea.
He would escape the high security institution.
And this time, he waited for his opportune moment and bashed one of the supervising officers over the head with a chair and made for the exit, tripping over his un-Velcroed Velcro shoes.
Oh, man, you gotta Velcro those Velcros, bro.
And little Pauly was immediately caught.
For this, he was given further punishment.
These included servery duties and scrubbing floors.
So, he was the busboy of the troubled teen institution.
He had to make sure everyone had enough butter for their toast and enough salt for their soup.
I know he had the whole get-up, like, oversized dovetail tux, the white towel draped over his arm, and probably spoke in a really proper tone.
Aye, and how's the fucking steak, Charlie?
Ya fucking cunt.
It's not too done, is it?
I mean, I could cut it up into pelletable sizes for you to chew on, ya fucking Muppet, if you'd like that.
Perhaps I should chew it first, you know, like a baby bird or some shit.
You want me to top off your Armand de Brino Rosé?
Ya bastard!
I'm sure that was exactly him.
That's actually an audio recording that we got, like, exactly from his time as a server there.
It's so interesting we came across that.
Yeah. And so up to this point in Pauly's life, shit was not going too well, obviously.
But this whole story gets pretty complicated once Pauly grows up a little bit and is no longer considered a juvenile.
Now that we have a little bit of an understanding of Pauly's childhood troubles and what led him toward what would ultimately be his final outcome, that being life in prison, we can now begin to paint the larger picture of who Paul Stephen Hay was and who he came to be.
To start this off, we need to bring in some other characters that are crucial in the story.
The first one is Robert Barry Quinn.
Now, before we actually get into Quinn and his connection with Pauly, I want to bring something up that is crazy, which happened after all of this Pauly shit went down.
And we're just going to jump into the future a little bit, and then we'll come right back.
Whoa, bro, you didn't tell me you had some kind of time-hopping ability.
Oh, yeah.
Let's go.
Let's go.
Quinn is in prison serving the rest of his life for the crimes that will be mentioned.
He was being housed in the Pentridge Prison, and he shared a cell with another man, a man he should not have fucked with.
This man's name was Alex Sakmakas, and he was in Pentridge Prison for the murder of a professional runner named Bruce Walker in a dispute over a car in 1978.
Not just any car.
That was a vintage Plymouth man.
Sure, I know nothing about cars.
What is that, like a Volvo or a Yugo or something?
My heart just turned a little bit black in one of the corners, just from how burnt it was.
You know, I'm not going to go into it here, bro, but just why don't you call me after the show, okay?
I'm sorry Alex and Bruce would go on a fishing trip on a boat so apparently they were friendly at one point but only Alex returned Bruce's body would be found washed ashore with the hands
Oh. Uh, I don't know.
Tell me, man.
Alex would go to a Hawthorne Tatsalato agency and attempt to rob it.
While robbing the agency, he shot the two people working at close range in the head.
The two would be the husband and wife owners, and they would both survive.
Alex was put away for life and made himself out to be a power-mad psychopath within the prison walls.
And apparently, this guy was pretty feared, and he was high up in the JLY drug market across Victoria.
He was sort of a shot caller, you know?
He would arrange for inmates to be beat up and all that shit.
Yeah, I've heard of that kind of a role that you might play in those kinds of settings.
So yeah, he must have got pretty high up if he was one of the shot callers.
And Alex, he would be transferred around, but it was at Pentridge Prison where Alex and the aforementioned Barry Quinn would become acquainted.
It was said that Quinn didn't really like Alex and would taunt him often.
And one night, after watching some R-rated movie with some sex scene in it, Quinn had gone too far after either ridiculing or accusing Alex of raping his former girlfriend.
Alex slept on it, like our boy Meatloaf, the late Meatloaf, who brought to the masses one of the greatest hits of all time, Paradise.
Nah, shit, now I've forgotten how it goes.
Let me sleep on it.
Baby, baby, let me sleep on it.
Yeah, fantastic song from an iconic album.
Bad out of hell, man.
That was a real turning point in musical history, let me tell you.
Continuing, Alex slept on it.
And at approximately 9 a.m. on July 4th, 1984, he woke up on the wrong side of the cement bed.
But good thing the greatest of all TV soaps of all time was playing on the boob tube because that's sure to cheer any Debbie Downer to an uppity Humphrey.
Well, seeing as it was just the two of them, only half the attendees seemed satisfied with the viewing, but someone was pissed off about something.
You see...
Alex doused Quinn with a shit ton of modeling glue that he had acquired somehow.
And while Quinn was obviously shocked and wondering what the fuck Alex was doing, Alex, being the, you know, power-hungry, whatever psychopath that he was, he stood there, flicking lit matches at him.
Quinn was desperately trying to avoid the matches being thrown at him, but he couldn't run forever in that small area.
One of the matches would strike Quinn and he would go up in a ball of flames.
Seeing as it was a high-security prison, it took some time for the security protocols to be followed, and by the time the guards arrived on scene with a fire extinguisher and a blanket, it was too late.
Barry Quinn was not going to make it.
Photos of the scene showed blackened marks along the walls where Quinn was trying to put himself out as he was burning to death.
Oh, jeez.
Not much really came out of that.
I mean, Alex was, from then on, given the moniker The Barbecue King.
Unfortunately, when I was in college, and I'll leave that out exactly where that was, but there was a place called the Barbecue King.
It was just one guy that would stay out there all day called the Barbecue King, and I went there frequently.
Maybe that was the guy.
Looking back, I have a different take on what I was eating.
Let me tell you.
I'm starting to regret some things.
I spent a lot of money there.
So Alex did some solitary confinement and got 10 years put on his overall sentence, which ran concurrently with the one he was already serving.
Later, though, he'd be allowed back into the general population.
Now let's introduce prison inmate Craig Minogue.
And I know this is departing from our main story, but it's a very interesting twist to it all.
Dude, twist away, bro.
You know I like that twist, homie!
You love twists.
Craig was serving at least 28 years for a bomb attack on a police station in March of 1986.
The blast killed one constable and injured 22 other people.
For whatever true reasons he had, Craig would put a few dumbbell weights from the gym in a pillowcase and wait for Alex.
You see, Alex was an inmate worker and was taking some lunches to a group of other inmate workers in the industry yard.
As he approached the group, Craig came out of nowhere and bashed him in the head with the weights.
Alex tried to protect himself with the tray he was carrying but there was just no hope.
Guards had seen this occurring, so they quickly called it in, but again, it was too late.
Alex Sokmakis was dead.
He had suffered from several fractures in the skull and severe brain damage and would die six days later.
Yeah, I just, after the description, there's just no way you're going to make it through that.
Yeah, Barbecue King was deceased.
And like his predecessor, Alex...
Craig Minogue served a concurrent term on top of the one he was currently serving.
He argued that it was in self-defense that he thought Alex was going to kill him.
So he got to him first when he least expected it.
I see, I see.
Okay, now we can get back to our regularly scheduled programming and go back in time to where Robert Barry Quinn is still alive and being a total shit sack.
Whoa, it's like back to the Splash Bill in Pleasantville, Ted's hot tub navigator time after time machine.
Fucking sick, brother!
Fuck, that's exactly it, man.
Except, we need to go back a little further before Robert Barry Quinn is even affiliated with Paul Stephen Hay.
We need to briefly discuss the crimes that Paul had committed, which led up to the two men finally meeting, because that is important.
Oh, it's very important.
What follows are those crimes that he committed, being explained by the man himself in one of his typed confessions.
The motive for each of the following crimes appears to have been robbery, and he says as much.
There are discrepancies with the chronology of events between his own confessions and court proceedings, and so for the sake of ease, we decided to just use his written confessions rather than the latter.
So please note the man's inflated ego.
Yes, should not be hard to miss.
The year is 1978, and according to Murderpedia.org, apparently only two weeks after being paroled for a bunch of small-time robberies, Pauly would rob a 7-Eleven store.
He had with him a saw-off 12-gauge single-barrel shotgun.
This is what he said happened, and we will paraphrase because he says a lot of nonsense.
"On this night I hid behind the toilets over the road from the store until a man and woman left with the take-ins.
I then walked across the road and I confronted the bloke and the woman and made my demand for the money.
The man began to argue, saying that it's only $50 of some such shit.
So I kept the money, and I got tired of his arguing.
I then fired the shotgun at his midsection.
What Paulie did was he took the actual shot out of the shell, so what was fired was just the wadding inside the shell casing.
He said he opened the shotgun, took the empty one out, and reloaded another dud, but the guy didn't know that.
Then he told the man, The next one's live.
The next one is live?
He says it like he asked the guy.
Yeah, he's...
Is he talking to himself or is he talking to the guy?
I know, I know.
Only the guy would know.
Of course, the man gave Pauly the money and the man's bowels gave the man an unwanted surprise.
Ew, prolapse right on the spot.
The worst thing to happen to you while you're standing in line at McDonald's around a bunch of families with their kids when you're wearing shorts on a hot-ass day, man, you know, you know, bro?
Oh my god, that would scar those kids for life.
It might.
But the parents would be all about it.
They'd just sort of slowly look at each other's eyes with a slow smile and orcs.
You know what they're thinking, dude.
Forget the milkshakes and fries.
So, some time later, Paulie then set his eyes on the next hit.
And it's one of your faves, Scott.
Kentucky Fried Chicken.
Oh, the old KFC, man.
Say it ain't so.
He said he entered through the rear door and was in the kitchen.
From there, he confronted the staff and demanded all of the money.
One of the staff members, a man, turned and started to run, but Paulie told him to freeze, which he did.
He says no one else gave him any issue.
He got the spoils, which was about $300, and ran out of there on all fours.
Oh, fuck, man.
He had like the one opportunity where everything was just right.
You know, he easily could have had the secret recipe.
All he needed to do was forget about the money and focus on the herbs and spices, dude.
Dude, no shit.
He would have been so beyond rich.
He basically could have held the world ransom.
You know how that weird guy Jeff Bezos' yacht is so big it has its own side yacht?
Dude, yeah.
Well, if he would have gotten that recipe instead of the $300, he could have had Bezos' yacht as a side yacht to his world's largest yacht.
Think about that.
Yacht with a side yacht with a side yacht.
Yeah, dude.
And don't forget about the helipads and all that shit.
Fucking submarine launch down there.
Sea Lab 2021, you know?
Oh, yeah.
Fucking loved that show.
So after the KFC holed up, then came the pizza parlor botched robbery turned murder fiasco.
Ooh, no good, man.
Paulie recalls something that's actually kind of important.
He says, I plan to rob these premises at gunpoint.
In fact, I recall it was on the same night that I had robbed the KFC store.
As I was not content with the spoils from the Kentucky store, I decided to do another hold-up.
As I drove down the road, I saw the pizza parlor, and I decided it would do.
He pulled the car up a side street and got out.
The weapon he had with him was a sawn-off single-bail 12-git shotgun.
This particular gun was in shitty condition because whoever sawed it down really did some damage to it.
I'm not even sure if it worked or if it only worked once.
So Pauly went in and there were no customers.
He recalls the guy behind the counter as being named Singalani or something.
So Pauly says he jumped onto the counter and pointed the gun at the guy, telling him to fill the bag with money as he's handing him the bag to put the money into.
Pauly would say, Fill it with the money, cunt.
And why don't you give me a slice of that pepperoni while you're at it, mate?
So he said the owner became angry and flustered and started rummaging through a drawer and Pauly thought the man was getting him the money.
But he wasn't.
He was getting a large knife.
And then...
He lunged at Pauly.
Pauly said he aimed the gun at the man's midsection and fired the weapon.
A woman was screaming from a different area of the pizza shop.
When Pauly fired that shot, the owner actually grabbed the barrel of the gun and wouldn't let go, but Pauly had to bust on out of there.
So he freed himself from the man's grip and turned to jog out, and with his back turned to the guy, he thought the proprietor threw a knife.
But when he arrived back at the getaway car, that's when he realized that the gun had fallen apart, and he deduced that the man had thrown the barrel of the shotgun at him.
Polly grew pretty worried about that fact because he wasn't sure if he had been wearing gloves or not and thought that maybe his fingerprints would be all over the part.
But he was so freaked out that he left the scene and changed his appearance by shaving his face.
Well, that may have worked a tad bit better than those two doofus who colored their faces black with permanent marker and attempted to do some burglaring that we briefly covered in a previous episode.
You know, you look at the picture and they like barely have their faces colored.
Yeah, it's so stupid.
You can just totally tell that it's them.
Yeah. Yeah, and I believe that was the neck bomb pizza delivery bank robber Brian Wells episode.
Great episode.
Go watch it.
Great episode.
Go listen to it.
This is not a visual thing.
Totally. If you haven't heard it yet, I suggest you go give it a listen.
But actually, by him being minimalistic by just shaving his face, you know, that probably actually worked.
He probably had the old five o'clock shadow going on.
Right. There's probably no change whatsoever in his appearance.
Like the guy I see outside the window every day, you know?
The mailman?
No! No, no, not the mailman.
He's gone off to do better things, I imagine.
Haven't seen him around in a while.
Interesting. No, the guy I see through the window in the bathroom.
Window in the bathroom?
That has a full view of the neighbor's fence about one foot away.
Emanating energy and confidence.
Wow. Okay.
Hey, man, that's a mirror.
That's a reflection.
And those descriptors aren't exactly accurate either, my friend.
What? Oh, hey now, man.
Come on.
It's okay to have wrinkles, bro.
And very thin hair, just short of early onset baldness.
It's fine.
Whoa, you're making a lot of claims and a lot of comments here, man.
I don't know how I feel about that, man.
It's okay, man.
Hey, I'm right there with you, except I have a trick I learned from one of those old Canadian TV digests.
Just got the latest edition.
It's a hardcover, actually.
Oh, nice.
That's expensive.
But I use old coffee grounds from the coffee that I brew first thing in the morning, and I just rub those grounds onto my face.
Just mash it into the pores, you know?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
It's like one of those gritty face creams.
Exfoliate. Yes, that's the word.
You have to exfoliate your face with the coffee grounds.
You know, I should try that.
Yeah, man.
And I'm also getting a really nice tan as well.
Nothing wrong with a good tan.
Yeah, it's a little splotch.
A little uneven.
But hey, whatever, you know.
I was going to say, but I'm glad you said it for me, man.
I feel better now.
I wish you would have said it.
Damn it.
I'd have had something to be mad at you for.
So old Paulie would find out that the man he shot had died a couple of days later.
He had escalated his crimes from robberies and other bullshit to full-on murder.
He was in the big leagues now.
No turning back.
Now we hope in the big leagues cannot turn back.
Yep, it's official now.
He's a stone-cold killer.
His next target would be a Tatslato agency.
And for those not familiar with Australia, a tax lotto agency is exactly what it sounds like.
A business that sells all sorts of lottery tickets and all things lottery related.
There are over 4,000 of these agencies in just Queensland, New South Wales, the ACT or the Australian Capital Territory, Victoria, Tanzania, the Northern Territory, and South Australia.
Oh yeah, it was actually started by George Adams back in 1881 at the Tatters Hall Hotel.
Crucial piece of information, mind you, that I shelved away in the gray matter folds, and it has finally become relevant, juicy, and ripe to be plucked for you, the listener, in this episode that is the harvest of the bounty of all of our ethereal ideas.
That was so philosophical.
Well, you know, I'm a thinker.
Thinker, not a drinker.
There you go.
Pauly said that he wasn't intending to rob the place at gunpoint.
He said that he intended to rough the money handler up a little bit, give him a bit of a stonker, you know, have a go at him until he handed the money over.
But as the story goes, Paulie became impatient with the man, and he later said, I later decided to dispense with the pugilism and to extract the takings at gunpoint.
Paulie states that after preparing for the robbery, he walked along Chapel Street until he came to the location of the tax level agency.
The weapon was in a sack that he had brought with him to collect the spoils with.
He entered into the building and approached the counter, where one woman was working.
At that point, he pulled out the shotgun and aimed it at her while tossing the sack in the same direction.
He said, Feel it, cunt.
The money.
He said that the woman just looked at him without saying or doing anything, most likely in shock.
But Polly goes on to say, I mean, when she did move, she totally surprised me by turning her in toward the door that led from the shop and moving away from me toward it.
I was kind of confused by this.
I was scared stiff to begin with.
When this happened, some strange psychological state overtook me.
It was as if everything started to slow down and go in slow motion.
Things became grey and vague as if in a dream, and I recall thinking on the edge of this state, no, you're not sending me back to jail, mate.
It was at that point that he fired the shotgun into the woman as she was trying to escape.
He said that he instantly turned to flee the scene while desperately trying to put the weapon back into the sack, but he was struggling to do so.
He heard a woman screaming as he ran away, and he figured it was a pedestrian who probably heard the gunshot and then saw him running away with the shotgun, bumbling along as he made his getaway.
He's not doing a great job at it.
It's like not going his way at all.
It's almost like he's becoming this serial killer by accident, you know, just sort of like a weird happenstance kind of way, you know?
Right. After successfully making his escape and laying low for a few days, he said that he would watch on the news that the woman he had shot was shot directly in the back of the head and died.
Huh. Well, did he at least change his identity again?
He did, yeah, absolutely.
You want to guess what he did?
Let me guess.
He shaved his face again.
Probably, but he did one better.
He cut his hair.
Oh, I'll say it again.
I've said it once and I'll say it again.
It works every time.
Every time, folks.
Sometime later, Pauly would strike again.
This time, he would rob a railway worker who was leaving the railway station with a bunch of takings, as he called it.
He also had with him a partner in crime, but this person would go unnamed.
Pauly would have the single barrel shotgun this time, and his buddy would carry with him a baseball bat.
The plan was to wait on the pathway for the worker to start his walk back.
But due to bad timing, the pair of goalie rakers had missed him and he was already down the lane on the other side of the street.
But that didn't stop these two drongo dills from continuing with their plan.
They ran up on the guy and at gunpoint demanded the money.
The guy with the bat proceeded to beat the worker about the body and the helpless man would hand over the cash.
The two gronks then fled the scene and made off with the takings.
Man, just a classic beat and break, man.
Just beat him up, took the goods, got out of there.
Rough stuff, bro.
Alright, now we can touch on Robert Barry Quinn.
This is when shit gets really fucked.
Robert Barry Quinn was serving a double life sentence for two murders he had committed in 1974.
Quinn had a girlfriend, one of many.
And it's crazy how a double murderer can have multiple girlfriends.
Like, what the fuck?
Yeah, bro.
Say it ain't so...
I will not go.
Her name was Ava Carlson.
Ava, along with a man named Robert Wright and another man named Wayne Smith, helped Quinn escape from prison in 1978.
It's unclear how that escape went down, but the one thing that matters is that it was successful.
Quinn and Ava Carlson would hide away at a campsite in the bush.
Another girlfriend of Quinn's, Cheryl Ann Gardner, would visit Quinn and Ava at that campsite a number of times.
At some point later on, perhaps weeks, Quinn and Cheryl Gardner would leave that campsite and travel to Perth.
Ava Carlson was not seen or heard from again until months later when her skeletal remains were found near that same campsite.
Yeah, how does a double murderer obtain multiple girlfriends?
I kind of want to go back to that now.
I don't know how that happens.
Yeah. Pauly had met Robert Wright while both of them were serving time at the Young Offenders Division of Pentridge Prison in 1975.
At some point later, both of them would end up at the Youth Training Center in Malmesbury where they would both escape together.
Pauly would stay with one of Wright's sisters as things settled.
Oh man, it wasn't out too long.
What, like two months or something?
Yeah. According to court documents, in late November of 1978, after that prison escape by Quinn, Robert Wright and Cheryl Gardner would go to the campsite hideout to help Quinn relocate to Perth.
It was on this occasion that Ava Carlson was shot and killed.
Those present were Quinn, Wright, and Gardner.
In Pauly's little book, he said that Cheryl Gardner shot Ava in the head first, then Wright shot her afterward.
Apparently, Cheryl had some beef with Ava.
Maybe some jealousy was brewing.
Cheryl then drove Quinn to Perth.
Either Wright stayed behind to dispose of the body, or he went off to do whatever a Robert Wright would do in those circumstances.
From Perth, Quinn and Gardner took a train to Melbourne around Christmas time to visit Cheryl's son, Danny William Mitchell, who was around nine years old at that time.
Quinn would then go back to Perth, where he was staying with Cheryl's brother, but he would be re-arrested on January 25, 1979.
So at this point, there were six people who knew information about Quinn's escape from prison and the campsite where Ava Carlson was murdered.
Those people were Quinn, Wright, one of Wright's girlfriends, Debbie Veal, Wayne Smith, Smith's girlfriend, Lynn Bowles, and Cheryl Gardner.
Okay, well we got quite a few people going on here with the info.
Through a lot of thinking and built-up suspicions, Robert Wright became very worried that Wayne Smith, his girlfriend Bowles, and Gardner would sink ships with their loose lips, and he started to devise a plan that would ensure that the murder of Ava Carlson would remain a mystery,
at least for the time being.
In order to carry out his plan, he needed some help because he sure as hell couldn't carry it out himself.
And that is where Paulie Stephen Hay comes into the mix.
Thing is...
Pauly already knew Robert Wright.
How did he know Robert Wright?
Pauly was giving Wayne Smith's girlfriend, or as Pauly put it, his de facto wife, Lynn Bowles, a bit of a root, you know?
Forget about the franger.
He was putting his chub doodle in the old clacker in the Mappatassi, and the two had been getting it on for quite a while, at least.
Ah, he was cracking a fit!
Quite often, I see.
So Pauly says that earlier in the year, in 1979, he had been arrested for possession of and supplying drugs, as well as resisting arrest and assaulting the police.
It's confusing, but he said that he made a statement in regard to those charges, which gave him a defense in the charges, and also allowed for a bail to be set, which he posted.
This sounds like his lips were loosening.
Yeah. He said that Bowles was going around telling people that he was a snitch and couldn't take a beating from the police.
This clearly upset poor little Pauly and hurt his delicate self-image, and he began to plan some revenge.
He just wasn't sure how yet.
And now we go to the night of June 27th, 1979.
Pauly said that he was involved in some sort of argument with two men and the topic of some stolen fur coats that a man named King was responsible for was brought up.
Pauly had two companions with him, and all five of them would meet at King's house.
Pauly's two companions are said to have wanted to be violent with King to get the coats back.
The thing was, King was not home.
It's probably important to note here that as far as Pauly and his two companions are concerned, they had been tossing back a few bevies.
Probably a couple cartons of some frothies, you know, a couple of slabs.
They most likely scold some timmies, maybe even some tallies.
So the point you're making is that these guys were munted.
But not quite stretcher cases.
Right, they were plastered, total trashed, even pissed.
Oh, I'm pissed.
I'm just bloody pissed.
I'm so pissed, I pissed all over meself.
And then me mates, bug as they are, they became pissed and started to piss on me too.
Couldn't believe it.
Just made me that much more pissed, mate.
I can't imagine.
I can't imagine.
So yeah, they were pretty drunk.
And so since King was not home...
Pauly and his two buddies decided they would go find a friend of King's and take the matter out on him, but this guy too could not be located.
Let's have Pauly tell us what happened next.
The beer coursing through the veins and the anger, it was suggested that Smith's premises be visited.
I don't recall who suggested it, but the other two had a grievance with him.
All three of us were agreeable to the murder of a variety of persons that night from King...
The other man, and ultimately to Smith.
But why Wayne Smith?
Why did the three of them choose to take out their anger about the fur coats on Wayne Smith?
Man, let's go ahead and find out, bro.
Alright, so Pauly would go to the Great Links to not rat out the people who were involved with him and the crimes he committed.
But the other person who we know had a grievance against Smith was Robert Wright.
And it would turn out that he was one of Pauly's two companions.
Later, a man named Ernest Reg Strachan, he would come into play.
He became a credible witness for the prosecution and admitted that he was the third person in that little group.
He admitted that he was there when they went to King's and looked for the other guy and they went to Smith's and Strachan was actually the driver.
Paulie would say that he entered Smith's house first and had a.25 caliber pistol.
He saw that Lynn Bowles was not home, but Smith was.
Smith had been in bed when the three men arrived, and he got out of bed when he heard Paulie coming in.
When they saw each other, Smith must not have been alarmed because he went back to his bed.
A few minutes later, there was a knock on the door.
Paulie said it was his girlfriend, which put Smith at further ease.
Paulie went to the door and let one of the men in.
This man had a rifle, which he produced in Smith's bedroom.
Smith was now very fucking scared.
And again, we'll have Polly tell us what happened next.
I produced the.25 and tried to discharge it at his head, but it jammed.
Eventually a shot was fired from it, but because of difficulties, it got him in the neck.
He gurgled and he slumped back in bed.
The accomplice fired shots into him.
We both then began to leave.
We briefly discussed things and decided that he should have a few more shots in him just to make sure, you know?
So more shots were fired with the.22.
Fucking just complete overkill, man.
Just sociopaths having fun with it.
Yeah, they're just standing there like, oh man, let's do a few more.
Like using them as target practice?
Like, what the fuck?
Yeah. After the murder, the men drove to Robert Wright's sister's house where they started to invent alibis in case they needed one at a later date.
Pauly said he went to Smith's funeral to keep up appearances.
And that he was still associating with that same group of people.
He said something a little ominous in his writings about the funeral.
He said that tensions soon mounted, though.
It also came out later by Strachan that Pauly and Wright had told him that they intended to kill Lynn Bowles that night that they killed Smith, but she was gone out with friends.
The Crown would also find a clear link between Robert Quinn's prison escape...
The murder of Ava Carlson at the campsite and Wayne Smith's murder at his house.
Even though Paulie said that he did not intend to kill Smith, he did say the following about Wayne Smith and his murder.
Wayne Smith, in my experience, was a chronic substance abuser and regular thief who had, if I recall correctly, served at least one term of imprisonment, though I didn't have enough reason to justify killing Smith.
I still recall having friend on him for dumping me at a point during the aforementioned night when we went to commit a burglary and for not giving me what I thought was a due share of the crime profit.
I can't say that he and I were very close.
I vaguely recall it being hypothesized that Smith was killed to silence him and that his assistance with hiding the escapee Barry Quinn during his flight from the law, but I don't personally recall being spoken of as responsible in any way for his murder.
I do recall Wayne Smith was a few years older than me, and though my primary target for the murder on the night of his demise was his de facto wife, Lynette Bowles, I helped him kill Smith when she wasn't home.
I mean, yeah, to me it sounds like Pauly did have something against Smith, and he's calling him out for some substance abuse issues, which he used to have, and for stealing some things, and for having served some time in prison.
Yeah, I mean, Pauly had served, like, a lot of time for all the same type of shit, and he's calling Wayne Smith out on it.
That's bullshit.
I mean, this guy's a fucking flaming gala, if I've ever heard of one, you know what I mean?
Total flaming gala.
I completely agree, man.
Total piecer.
Now, let's introduce Lisa Maude Brearley.
She had begun a friendship with Pauly sometime during the middle of 1979.
On July 18th, she applied for a shooter's license at the St. Kilda Police Station, and it was issued.
A few hours later, she drove to a business to purchase a couple of.22 rifles.
She was accompanied by two men.
These two men would be Pauly and Wright.
The purpose of these two weapons was to use them in the offense of murdering Cheryl Gardner and her 10-year-old son, Danny Mitchell.
Now, some may say that Danny was not an intended target, and even Pauly says so.
He said that Danny just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, but you can decide.
On January 22, 1979, Cheryl and her son, Danny, were visiting a friend's place and were watching television, having a movie night or something.
They would never be seen alive.
Oof. Spooky.
Pauly says that both he and a companion, and it's unclear if this was right or someone else, but he writes that one of the persons involved in the Smith murder was in jail.
That would have been Ernest Rockin.
So the two of them found Gardner's car parked outside of her friend's house, and so they waited for her to leave so they could follow her.
They knew where she lived and knew that is where she was going to be heading, so they sped away to get there first and lay in wait.
When Gardner and his son arrived and parked, Polly jumped out of the hiding place and pointed the gun at her.
Danny had actually already exited the car, but saw Polly holding a gun at her face.
Polly says that Gardner called her son back into the car.
It appears that Polly got into the back seat and told Gardner to drive to a chosen destination where his accomplice would be.
Once they got there, Polly got out of the car and talked to the accomplice and they exchanged words about what should happen.
The accomplice and Polly wanted Gardner dead, but the accomplice did not want to kill Danny.
Then they discussed not doing anything, but figured that Gardner would just have the both of them killed if they didn't kill her.
So it was decided that the accomplice would go back to his car and Polly would kill both Gardner and her 10-year-old son Danny with a volley of gunshots.
Oh, man.
It's just so, uh, just so evil.
His reasoning for killing Danny was because he would have been a witness to Polly killing his mother.
But he had some things to say.
I was very upset when told that she had apparently been lying to me, causing a rift between Robert Wright and myself, and also speaking loosely about homicides that I had been involved in to a person who wasn't able to be trusted with this information.
I felt deeply violated, and the depth of my displeasure and distrust was eventually shown in my act of taking it alive.
And more specifically about Danny Mitchell, he would say:
"I met Danny when he was a youngster in 1975, when Robert Wright and I would abscond us from the Malmesbury Youth Training Center.
I again met Danny a number of times upon my release from jail in 1978, and I eventually came to not like him very much when he was around 9 years old.
Also with a mother like Cheryl Gardner, his chances of becoming a saint were quite reduced, and I vaguely recall, even at this tender age,
He had snuck a smoke of dope when his mother had had it, and I have a dim recollection of other problems as well.
I can also see that my own lack of maturity could have contributed to me not being partial to Danny.
It appears that Cheryl Gardner came to learn that she was in trouble with Robert Wright and me before the night of her demise, so in my opinion it was irresponsible of his gangster mother to keep Danny with her when she knew of the problems she had.
Rather than move her son away to stay with his grandmother and someone else whilst Gardner was apparently in danger or flee with him to some place more distant and safe, it appears she tried to use Dany as a shield to try to dissuade people from harming her because of his presence.
It was generally spoken of as an underworld principle that children aren't to be killed.
But obviously, by Danny's unforeseen presence and sad demise, the gamble that Gardiner took did not pay off.
Not only did Gardiner's life end, but the unfortunate circumstances of the situation meant that Danny, who knew both Wright and myself, well, had to die also.
There was no possibility of postponing the plan because of what and whom Gardiner knew.
Her knowledge about our deeds could put us behind bars.
And with help from...
Her friends, there was the slimmer possibility that Wright and I could be harmed or killed.
Though I didn't particularly like Danny, he had never done anything to merit the death in my hands.
His murder is particularly tragic and certainly wasn't planned.
I accept that I put the poor boy through the terrible ordeal of seeing his mother shot and then I robbed the boy of any sort of future life.
Alas, nothing I say or have do.
This motherfucker is so callous.
He always places the blame on the people he killed while completely downplaying his own actions.
He would literally justify all of his murders by blaming the victim.
Every time.
Yeah, that's crazy.
He was like, wow, she shouldn't have had her son with him.
It was basically his whole defense to that.
So the police would say that both Gardner and her son Danny Mitchell were shot, quote, a number of times in the back of the head as they sat in the front seat.
The person or persons who fired the shots were apparently in the back seat of the car, end quote.
After that double murder, the news was doing its thing and the police were going around interviewing all possible suspects.
One of these possible suspects happened to be Lisa Maude Brearley, the very new friend of Pauly who purchased the.22 caliber rifles, both of which were used in the recent double murder.
Something in that new friendship had quickly staled, though.
After the double murder, Polly wanted Lisa Brearley to report to the police that the two rifles she had bought were stolen out of her trunk, thereby adding difficulty for the police in linking Polly to the murders.
She refused to do so.
Because of her refusal to do so, Polly decided she needed to die in order to cover up that loose end.
Of this, he would say, I mean, it was unfortunate.
She was a friendly girl who talked amongst her friends.
She had a good relationship with her mother and eventually gave her the shooter's permit to hold.
It was these warm and admirable traits that made her a risk.
She died because she was close to her mother and basically naive and sincere.
How in the fuck do you blame a victim of a murder by saying that she was simply too close to her mother and being naive and sincere?
What the fuck?
Give a compliment as the reason that he killed her.
Right, yeah.
She was just too nice, and I had a really good relationship with her mother, and I just had to kill her.
So Polly would write, Damn, that's some cold, calculated shit.
The day before murdering Lisa.
Pauly, Wright, and Strachan bought a red-handled knife and a cutthroat razor from a barber shop.
Apparently, the razor would not be used.
The next day, Pauly and Lisa would be at Pauly's rented bungalow in Aspendale.
When the others arrived, that being Wright and Strachan, it was agreed that Strachan would either have sexual intercourse with Lisa, with Pauly's approval, or it was a full-on rape.
By the sounds of it, it was a full-on rape under the threat of being murdered.
So one version of this says that it either took place soon after Stockton and Wright arrived at the bungalow or later that night, right before her brutal murder.
The idea was to make up a story that there was some party happening up in the hills to take Lisa's mind off of things.
But as they were driving through the roads, which were muddy and boggy due to some rain, the cars began to get stuck and the situation started to get tense.
Polly's behavior started to be erratic.
And Lisa quickly got scared of the situation she now found herself in.
Polly then threatened her, but we don't know exactly what was said and how it all went down.
But Lisa started telling Strachan that she was scared and said, I didn't do anything.
I didn't tell on them.
I haven't done anything.
Fuck, she knew, man.
She knew what was going to happen.
Crazy. So freaky, dude.
I feel so fucking horrible for her.
And once they arrived at the location at the Dandenongs...
This is where it's more commonly believed that the following happened.
With a knife to her throat, Polly told Strachan to rape Lisa.
It's said that at some point earlier, Strachan had made statements that he wanted to have sex with Lisa before they killed her, you know, didn't want to let her go to waste.
And once that was done with, Polly grabbed Lisa briefly and pulled her some distance away from the car.
He had with him the knife that was purchased just the day before.
Polly started stabbing her all over her body, her chest, her ribs, her neck, her face, her back, her arms, her legs, stabbed her everywhere.
Strachan would say that he could hear gurgling sounds from Lisa as she drowned in her own blood while Polly ruthlessly stabbed and slashed at her body in the darkness.
When Polly was finished being a total fuckface, he walked back to the cars and told Wright and Strachan, You should see her.
I stabbed her about 40 or 50 times.
Polly had blood splattered all over his clothes and his face.
Pauly and Strachan then moved Lisa's body off the side of a road and covered it with bark and detritus in their futile attempt to conceal it.
They then drove Lisa's car to the Lilydale Railway Station and left it unlocked with their handbag in full view in hopes that someone would steal the car.
Both Wright and Pauly would essentially threaten Strachan to keep his mouth shut.
Then Pauly burnt all of his clothing and then cleaned the car of fingerprints.
But you see, there was a more sinister reason for Polly allowing Strachan to have sex with Lisa Brearley before he killed her.
That was so that Strachan's semen would be inside of her body in case it was ever discovered.
Therefore, the only DNA found on Lisa would be his, and this would eliminate Polly as a suspect.
Whoa! Son of a bitch!
I'm sorry to react, but that's just like, some of this is brand new to me, and that's absolutely crazy, dude.
The forethought of that.
Yeah. So insane.
So Stockton himself would actually fold and talk to the police and even personally show them where her body was.
When a postmortem was conducted, it was found that Lisa Brearley had at least, that is at least, as in a minimum of 157 staff.
Oh my god, so crazy.
Not the 40 or 50 he said that he stabbed her.
Of Lisa Brearley's murder, Pauly would write, The way Lisa Brearley died was cold and ugly.
She was lured to the heels on the pretext of going to a party with Robert Wright, Ernie Strachan, and myself.
And on arriving in the isolated spot, was regrettably raped by Strachan before regrettably being butchered by me.
All three of us males knew that we were there to murder Lisa, but Strachan wanted to take advantage of her soon-to-be-deceased body before such became the fact.
There was no gun to take Lisa's life with, so unfortunately, she went through the protracted nightmare of being stabbed.
Her only real wrong was her honesty with her mother.
That, in the murderous context that Lisa was ignorant of, led to her demise.
Alas, I can't change the pest.
Completely cold, no empathy, no feelings whatsoever for anyone other than himself.
I mean, he's a picture-perfect example of a full-fledged narcissistic sociopath.
But, I will say this on the one hand, it has led him to be honest, and so, I mean, he is just, he's literally just telling us the exact reasons why it happened, and yeah, it is cold and it is heartless.
It's also like, yep, that's what happened.
And of course, loose lips sink ships.
Pauly would soon be arrested after Strachan folded his hand, and in November of 1980, Paul Stephen Hay was found guilty of four murders.
Those being of Wayne Keith Smith on June 27th, 1979.
Cheryl N. Gardner and her son Danny William Mitchell on July 22, 1979.
And Lisa Maude Brearley on August 8, 1979.
And in June of 1986, Pauly pled guilty to two more counts of murder for Evelyn Abraham, who was the Tats Lotto Agency employee, shot in the back of the head with a shotgun on September 21, 1978.
And Bruno Singalani, who was the pizza shop owner, also shot with a shotgun in December of 1978.
For all of those crimes, he was sentenced to six life terms of imprisonment with no chance of parole and no minimum fixed term.
He hated that.
Oh, well, yeah.
But Scott, Paulie isn't done being a no-hope or douche yet.
Of course.
As the story goes, some days prior to November 14th, 1991, a fellow prisoner by the name of Donald Hatherley confided in Paul that he didn't want to live anymore.
It's said that Pauly discussed various ways of suicide with Donald and became determined to help him carry out his last wish.
After many discussions over the next few days, they decided that hanging would be the best option available to them.
Then they had to figure out the best time for it to go down, and after doing some examinations of areas and the movement of prisoners, it was decided that inside Donald's cell was the best place and the right time would be right before the evening meal, but before the 4.10pm lockdown.
Donald's cell had some pretty sturdy piping that traversed the wall fairly high up, so it was perfect for the plan.
Pauly had acquired some nylon rope, like a giddy five-year-old on Christmas morning, and fastened it to the piping.
After testing the weight limits, it was found that it would suffice.
Then, Donald's hands were tied with some sort of material, and the noose was tightened around his neck.
A small cupboard was placed underneath Donald for him to stand on.
With time running out, Pauly kicked away the cupboard, and Donald Halerly was hanging.
But it was taking far too long, and Donald was still taking shallow breaths.
Polly then rubbed Donald's chest and told him, Let go of your breath, my friend.
But Donald kept breathing.
So Polly reached around his back and pulled down on his shoulders to further cut off his air supply.
And this worked.
In order to keep from being blamed for helping Donald kill himself, Polly had Donald salivate on the bindings around his wrist so it looked as if...
He had tied the knot himself with his mouth.
I'm not gonna lie.
That's actually pretty clever.
This guy is pretty clever, man.
Some things are pretty clever that he thinks of as fucking gnarly as they are.
But, I mean, this worked for a little while, but he was eventually caught for it, which didn't really bother him, obviously.
He was sentenced to life imprisonment with a minimum of 15 years.
Yeah, on top of the other six life terms.
Yes, on top of the other six life terms that he has to live before he can begin that sentence.
I mean, he could get out after the six lives in 15 years, you know?
Right, with that minimum, yeah.
So the judge who sentenced him in this murder had a few things to say.
You made no concerted or persistent attempt to discourage him.
On the contrary, you assisted him in his preparation to die in every practical way.
Indeed. You told the police you were glad that Hatherly wanted to commit suicide because of the benefit that you could get out of it.
That benefit was the opportunity to expose yourself to a new plane of experience as you perceived it by assisting someone to die without any malice.
You also described your participation in Hatherly's death as an adventure and they're a new...
Passages in your own documentation of this event would suggest that you regarded your involvement as a challenge and as a vehicle for personal growth.
Damn! That judge read him his soul.
Yeah. I mean, he nailed it exactly.
That's exactly what Paul did, man.
He loved that.
He wanted that new experience.
As long as he could kill someone.
Totally. So Paulie has tried unsuccessfully throughout the 50 or so years that he's been incarcerated to appeal his convictions and argue for a minimum term sentence so that he has a chance to live life outside the walls once more.
Because, you know, that's where he needs to be.
Oh, yeah.
Let's let that guy run in a muck.
The last appeal he put in was rejected back on December 13th, 2012.
He has also been arguing that he should have a reduced sentence because he suffers from borderline personality disorder and was especially suffering from BPD during each of the murders he committed, even though at the time he was arguing this, he had not been clinically diagnosed.
Yep, just throwing everything at the wall to see if anything sticks, you know.
But despite all that free quid to do with what his murderous, charcoaled heart pleased, he still decided to represent himself through all of his hearings.
Because why not?
Yeah, well, that's what true narcissists do.
I think they can argue their case better than a trained attorney.
Does that ever work?
In all my years of not studying the law and taking into account the countless hours I've sat on my haunches and watched Judge Judy, Judge Joe Brown, Judge Faith Jenkins, and Judge Lynn Toler, oh, I can't forget Judge Marilyn Millen, I could say this.
I don't think it ever works in any of the cases, at least not in most of the cases, Coop, if not any case where a narcissist represents themselves in a murder trial.
Especially where there are multiple murders and you are so very clearly a narcissist in the jury's eyes.
Good luck.
Okay, and in 2012, during one of his appeals, Polly would take the stand and say the following.
What I am today is a far cry from the monster of yesteryear.
Though I don't claim to be a perfect butterfly yet, I'm not a caterpillar either.
It fucking reminds me of that South Park episode when Stan's dad turns into a butterfly and he's all like, Look!
Look, Stan!
Look! I'm a butterfly, Stan!
Look! I'm a butterfly!
Oh, yes!
Such a good episode.
Absolutely. I mean, it's not like he was going to get any traction.
No, no.
And then the last thing we have about Little Polly is that in 2017, he was arguing for his religious right to have tarot cards so that he could read his future.
They should have just given him a deck that just had, like, jail bars.
Like, here you go, man.
All death cards.
Yeah, exactly.
He was saying that his pagan rights were being abused because he couldn't have his pack of tarot cards anymore.
And I do believe he won that case and was given back his tarot cards.
To which I say, good.
Let the man read his future.
It's all he's got.
And a bunch of money.
And a bunch of money.
Which I wish I had.
You and me both, Scotto.
You and me both.
So technically, Paul Stephen Hay is a serial killer with at least six victims over a period of time.
And while most serial killers have a sort of modus operandi, that is, they have a certain victim type and usually an agenda of some kind, Paul Hay was indiscriminate in his killings and didn't seem to have any pattern or even an aim to be a serial killer.
He just killed when it was necessary for him to try to escape a situation that he perceived to be dangerous to himself.
And in regard to serial killers, there are differences between the types of serial killers.
There are the thrill-seekers who get immense satisfaction from the process of the murder itself.
There is the mission-oriented serial killer who has the goal to eliminate a certain type of person or a group of people, such as sex workers or prostitutes.
Then there is the visionary killer who typically suffer from psychotic breaks with reality.
They often believe they are a different person and are compelled to murder by visions of God and /or the devil.
And there is the power and control killer who is motivated by lust and dominance.
They typically sexually abuse their victims and pose their dead bodies in grotesque positions for ultimate shock value.
I would have to say that of those, probably power and control fits the best just for this guy.
I mean, anytime he felt like he was going to lose power over the outcome of a situation, he eliminated the person who was in the way of that.
Plus, there were other times when sexual abuse was part of it, and then stabbings too, just like such a personal crime.
It's a very power-oriented...
Murder play.
Yeah, man, I agree 100%.
I think that's spot on.
I mean, he was super reckless.
He wasn't organized one bit.
I mean, he kind of was, but not really.
He would just go into a situation hoping for the best, really, and end up killing people.
Yeah, it wouldn't go according to plan, and then he'd just kill his way out.
Unless that was his real intent, and he's lying to us about everything.
Well... Right?
Because everything we really have is like his word against the courts.
And he's saying that he never planned to kill any of these people.
But he's also super fucking narcissistic.
So maybe he did plan to kill these people.
We'll never know.
Well, ladies and gentlemen, that will wrap up today's episode on Paul Stephen Hay, one of Australia's most worstest narcissistic sociopaths.
Yes, one of many.
Really crazy story.
Well... Should we read a listener email or two?
Oh yeah, man, definitely.
Hell yeah.
This one comes to us from BeautifulMess82 out of Augusta, Georgia.
Ooh, ooh, do the accent.
Alright, alright.
I'm assuming BeautifulMess82 is a female.
Hello, guys.
I just wanted an email to say I fucking love the show.
You guys have something that so many others just don't.
Originality. I like how you present the facts, but the facts aren't dry and boring.
I know the show is fairly new, but there is tremendous growth, and I believe you guys have what it takes to bring consistent content.
Thanks a lot for all y'all's hard work.
Wow! Thanks so much, BeautifulMess82.
You might be a mess, but what is important is that you are beautiful.
We have time for one more, do you think?
Yeah, yeah, sneak it in.
This next one comes from Zach Sacks.
All right.
From Reno, Nevada.
Nice. Hey dudes, just writing in to say the wife and I are enjoying your show.
Really good stuff.
Every episode has something in it that literally makes me laugh out loud.
Hey, that's awesome.
That's rare, so you guys are rocking it.
Really enjoying the subject matter.
And by the way, the stickers are fucking rad.
Hey, that's really nice of them.
Thanks, Zach Sacks.
Tremendously nice.
I think we have the nicest audience in podcast history.
True. I think you're right about that, my friend.
I think you're right.
That's really awesome.
Well, Sheila's chicks, ladies, birds, and chaps, fellas, blokes, mates, that is the show for today.
We hope you liked it, and we hope we gave this Australian case a good go, right?
We hope we made our Aussie listeners proud.
Good on you, mates!
Listeners, please like and share, and most importantly, subscribe to the Paranautica Podcast.
