Email: paranaughtica@gmail.comTwitter: @paranaughticaFacebook: The Paranaughtica Podcast Ko-Fi: You can help us out by donating to the podcast through either a 'one-time' donation or a monthly donation, and trust us, we would greatly appreciate it! You can find our Ko-Fi at our Facebook page! Paypal: You can also donate through Paypal to help out the show! You can find our Paypal at our Facebook Page!Here is the conclusion of the very strange case of Cindy James, ..or Cindy Makepeace, ....no....let's call her by her birth-name....Cindy Hack.This story is particularly strange in how long the harassment and attacks occurred. And all the really weird circumstances behind the attacks, just baffling. I mean, did she do it all herself or was this done by someone else, perhaps a group of psychiatrists?We'll probably never know, but we can speculate. Please enjoy and don't forget to send us an email!Sources:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Cindy_James#1982https://unsolved.com/gallery/cindy-james/https://unsolvedmysteries.fandom.com/wiki/Cindy_Jameswww.reddit.comhttps://allthatsinteresting.com/cindy-james Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
So the U.S. has been releasing these things in California and Florida.
Two distinct U.S. states with two distinct types of people, remember?
Yeah, this is definitely bigger than I thought.
Really? Oh yeah, the brown coats along with their white coat counterparts.
That being the government along with the scientists.
Correct. Well, they've been releasing a shit ton of these genetically modified mosquitoes in Florida and California since 2020, actually.
So the Environmental Protection Agency cleared the release of 2.4 billion.
Genetically modified mosquitoes.
But who's counting, right?
You know, it's just 2.4 billion, you know.
And how does this work again?
So the white coats are doing gene manipulation in these tiny flying Karens so that the offspring don't live to adulthood.
It's like a self-limiting type gene situation which glows under a special light so the white coats can tell which are which.
They made it so the male-selecting gene is the most prominent in the genetic makeup.
And that will theoretically increase male offspring while the female is decreased.
I find this to be pretty alarming, not because I care about mosquitoes, but because I am concerned about the implications of the actual scientific experiments being conducted.
You know, if the white coats can do this gene manipulation on living organisms of a smaller stature and have the full backing by the government, who's to say that they won't use the same scientific tactics on people secretly?
Well, there are these private gene editing companies funded by the feds.
In other words, us, our tax dollars, you know.
And they tout that they can genetically alter an embryo's sex or whatever so that the parents who want to conceive a girl can have that process done, and they'll birth a girl, and vice versa.
But what I did want to bring up really quick on the topic of genetically modified mosquitoes is this.
In the 1980s, I don't know if you remember, there were some documents that were declassified pertaining to some of the same experiments being done in the 1950s.
Two states were chosen then as well for these experiments, one being Georgia and the other, you guessed it, Florida.
Because, well, why not?
Well, shout out to both Georgia and Florida, by the way, and we are getting your emails.
Don't worry.
Yes, thank you for the emails.
Yeah, but these experiments weren't to depopulate the mosquito population.
They were meant as a field test by the U.S. military to conduct entomological warfare on the U.S. citizens.
And entomological warfare is a biological warfare that uses insects to directly harm a human population in a variety of ways, dude.
From destroying crops to spreading disease.
That's so crazy.
I hate that shit, man.
I mean, you can't even stop it, you know?
So my point is this.
Are these new genetically modified mosquito experiments just more of the same sort of entomological warfare attack, but just gussied up and dressed up as something totally different, wrapped in a shiny gift wrap, if you will, and gifted to us by the all-loving,
all-caring government for our benefit?
I mean, it's not the only entomological attack that they've carried out on us so far, so there have been many in the past.
There's many that are happening today.
I mean...
What's a few more?
What can we really do about it anyways?
I mean, that shit's real, bro.
And honestly, there is a lot that we can actually do, but it's going to involve a hell of a lot more than getting a permit to peacefully protest and hold signs like a bunch of zealous daycare nuns.
But I'd like to point out a major difference between how the U.S. citizens fight for change and how the citizens of France fight for change.
I think we all saw a little bit of that recently.
And just look how they reacted to Macron raising the retirement age from 62 to 64. That's how shit should be handled, man, despite them not winning the case.
I mean, yeah, they didn't win the case.
No, it's just a mess here.
And then you have people that do it the right way, but that's like a small number of people, and so they don't get heard.
You know, they don't get listened to.
Yeah, well, you're right.
And, you know, this could very well be another attack on the U.S. citizens.
You know, you've got a great point there.
It's valid.
Wow, thanks, man.
Oh, shit.
Do you hear that?
Oh, whoa.
Oh, man, do you hear that shit?
What's that?
You know what?
Oh, I think it's the...
Is that the music for everybody's favorite segment?
Let's let the listeners ponder that for a hot second while you give the gorgeous people what they want.
Always fashionable and never late, Trey Por Trey.
It's time for another Trey Por Trey.
I've been practicing that one.
I like that rendition.
Oh, thanks.
Yeah, that was a good one.
I've been working on it.
This first story is out of NPROPB Online.
May 21st, 2023, posted by Joe Hernandez.
An Indiana man is dead after a grenade found in his grandfather's belongings exploded!
Oh my god.
Yeah, dude.
Imagine that.
You're like, oh wow.
All these keepsakes.
I can remember this loving man in my life.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa!
Yeah, fuck.
Just what, they're moving around some stuff in a box?
So what happened, according to the Lake County Sheriff's Department, was they found this grenade device in his grandfather's old things.
Somebody reportedly pulled the pin, because, you know, why wouldn't you?
That's what you do.
And it went off!
And it killed him!
Um, surprise?
Yeah. Responders found an adult male unresponsive at the scene.
He was later declared dead.
The man's two children, a 14-year-old boy and an 18-year-old woman, were wounded by the shrapnel, so apparently it was a family affair, and they were transported to a nearby hospital.
Oh my god, who pulled the pin?
Who pulled the pin?
We'll probably never know.
But that's just like the classic, everybody knows, if you find an explosive device, don't fuck with it.
I mean, come on, man.
Everyone knows what a grenade looks like, right?
Yes, and what they do, right?
I mean...
Right? The age here, 14, 18, and the dude that died, he's obviously probably around 18 at least, they know what a grenade is.
They know what the pin is.
They know that if they pull the pin out, it's going to explode.
Yeah. I feel like there's very few people that would not know the basic physics of a grenade.
Maybe we've all seen a movie or played a game.
But, you know, who knows?
I'm not trying to be judgmental.
It's just...
You don't fuck with explosives.
Don't fuck with explosives.
If I found dynamite in a case, I would probably leave it alone.
Probably. Dude, yeah, because that shit degrades and it can explode at any fucking moment.
Nitroglycerin in there?
Exactly. Grenades?
Oh, yeah.
That's a different story.
So the grandfather was a military veteran, you said?
Yeah, I believe he was an old war vet, and these are just some of his old collected belongings from over the years.
Some old toys.
Old toys, if you will.
I don't know, if I was going through a deceased relative's stuff and a whole bunch of grenades fell out, I'd probably shit myself.
Yeah. I'd duck and cover.
Speaking of shitting oneself, if you don't mind my segue, this article comes to us from weirdnews.com,
May 17, 2018.
A woman in a heated argument...
Pooped on the floor at a Tim Hortons and flung it at the employee behind the desk.
Tim Hortons?
Old Timmy's?
Tim Hortons, man!
Yeah, old Timmy's.
Not cool.
Apparently, this took place at 6.15 on May 14th at Tim Hortons on Douglas Crescent in Langley, British Columbia, Canada.
The woman came in asking to use the restroom.
The employee said, we don't like your kind or your types around here, and refused her access to the bathroom, where the woman then squatted down, took a shit, grabbed the shit, and threw it at the employee who denied her access to the bathroom,
and it was all caught on camera.
There's video of this?
Yes, there's actually videos of this.
The team member contacted local authorities for assistance.
And they confirmed that they received a complaint.
The woman was detained and then she was released.
I'm sure they were just like, yeah, bro, come on.
Like, don't be shitting and throwing, you know?
This is ridiculous, man.
So she then proceeds to wipe her hands and back with the towelettes and then throws them at the staff and on the ground.
Yeah. She went all in.
Pulled up her leggings and then exited the store.
Yep. She's like, well, have a fine day.
Wow. Have a fine day.
You go into a coffee shop, just wanted to use the restroom, because obviously she had to take a shit.
She had to drop a couple Timbits, but they wouldn't let her do it in the toilet like a civilized human being.
I mean, you know, we've all been tempted, right?
You know, you go in, you're like, hey, can I get a mocha, peppermint mocha?
And they're like, oh, we're out of peppermint syrup.
We're like, oh, I'm just gonna throw my shit at you.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, we're not so far.
We're not so far from the chimps after all, you know.
Speaking of chimps, our last story comes to us again from World News.
This was posted July 12, 2018 by Aaron Kipp.
Thanks, Aaron Kipp.
Apparently a homeless man in Miami, Florida with no arms somehow managed to stab a tourist from Chicago after the tourist allegedly kicked him in the head while he was laying on the ground to rest.
Wait, what?
Yeah, so apparently Jonathan Dale Crenshaw, who is 46 years old and doesn't have any arms, somehow managed, after being kicked in the head, this is his own alleged telling of the story, to grab a pair of scissors with his feet, and he launched himself towards 22-year-old Cesar Coronado.
He launched himself.
He launched himself.
Yes. How does one launch?
He's armless.
He's laying on the ground.
He quickly picks up scissors with his foot, and he launches himself.
Yeah, and not only did he stab him once, but he actually stabbed him twice.
The article says that the man, the victim, if you will, which, I mean, debatable, was left on the ground bleeding at the scene, so he got him pretty good, bro.
Yeah, he must have been a ninja.
How? How does this happen?
I don't know, but, you know, it's one of those things.
That's that street knowledge, you know?
Wow. Yeah, he was practicing.
You'd have to.
Yeah. I mean, who knows what other skills this guy has.
Here's a skill he probably has.
He placed the scissors back into his waistband and then quickly fled the scene.
Scott, how did he put the scissors back into his waistband?
That's true.
The article does say that he put the scissors back into his waistband.
I have no idea, bro, because in a million years, I couldn't...
Put a pair of scissors in my waistband with my foot.
It's just not gonna happen.
I can tell you that right now.
I'm considering he's gonna be right-footed, alright?
Let's just say he's right-footed.
He has the scissors in his foot and his toes.
Fucking fierce grip in his toes.
And does he lift his left leg up and pull his waistband out with his left foot and then put the right foot scissors into his waistband and then...
So he's in some kind of like a pseudo-lotus position on the ground?
Yeah! Okay.
He's like, hold on.
Put this back in my waistband.
And then he just gets up and just...
Because it says he fled the scene.
Fled the scene.
Quickly. Yeah.
So he put the...
Yeah, I guess he could have gone back down, thrown the scissors in his pants somehow, dude.
That's tricky.
Maybe he just had loose pants.
That's... Either way, I'm impressed.
I'm not even mad.
Where did this happen?
This happened in Miami, Florida.
Ah. Yes, yes.
Ah, okay.
Makes sense now.
Exactly. Well, that's it for the Trey for Trey.
Join us next week for another exciting segment.
Three more stories coming at you every time, giving the people what they want.
Trey for Trey.
Man, that's just truly a heartwarming segment.
Gets me every time.
Thanks. I thought I'd do something a little family-focused this time around.
I loved it.
That was great.
So, last week we left off with Cindy's father, Otto Hack, meeting with Roy Makepeace, Cindy's ex-husband, at a donut shop in downtown Vancouver, Canada.
Otto was hoping that Roy would slip up and admit that he was responsible for all of these attacks on Cindy.
Roy did not slip up, however.
And after the meeting, he sent Otto a six-page letter explaining who he thought the attackers were.
And he thought the attackers were, you know, from the mafia.
And told Otto that he should look into that information, but that was never taken seriously by Otto or the police.
Ooh. Sounds like the scene was set for a horrific happening, but I'm sure we'll get to that in the future.
Cindy's harassment did not slow down, and over the summer of 1984, the attacks continued with increasing intensity, and on June 18th, Cindy would frantically call for Ozzie to get to her house immediately.
Once he got there, he found her sort of hiding in her garden in the backyard, and she told him that someone had gone into the house without detection.
Ozzy went inside to look around, and in the basement he found her dog, Heidi, who was cowering in fear of something, as if she had been attacked.
It was found later that Heidi had been physically abused, and whoever did it tied her up with a rope that was very similar to the rope used on the cats the previous year.
Also found was a cigarette butt on a windowsill, which was a brand that Cindy did not smoke.
Also found was a note that read, Happy Birthday!
With what were described as sexually explicit photos, which were probably like some gaping assholes in Golden Showers.
God, yeah, like some prolapsed assholes, you know, that thing they do in those docuseries.
Oh man, unfortunately.
First they blink at you once or twice and then BAM!
Kind of an unwanted surprise, you know?
Unless you're into that sort of thing.
I mean, this guy is not.
I second you there, buddy.
Yeah, probably just photos of, you know, the old Rusty Trombone or the Cleveland Steamer, the old Chili Dog or Shanghai Shampoo.
Oh yeah, man.
The Dirty Sanchez, the Hawk Carls, Blumpkins, Ham Wallets, Dutch Rudders, some munging.
And by the way, what is the Shanghai Shampoo?
I'm glad you asked.
Well, the Shanghai Shampoo is when you're going at it, right, with your partner of choice.
In this case, it's a female with luscious locks.
And you go into your all built up with so much sperm.
You purposely unleash it directly into her hair.
Then you rub it in thoroughly like a seasoned hairdresser.
That's only half of it.
Then you let it dry.
And the final result is that the hair resembles the crunchy noodles often served with chopped suey.
What the fuck?
That's fucking wicked, man.
And I don't see the fun in that at all.
It's kind of gross, actually.
Yeah, it's terrible.
Horribly disgusting.
Why would you want to do that?
Why would you want to?
Man, the other ones we listed make perfect sense, but that one just, it gets me.
Well, the truth is I'm into all of them, but don't tell anyone that.
Don't tell anyone listening to the podcast that.
Oh yeah, keep that a secret, but I have to ask, which one do you prefer?
I don't even know what half of them are.
I'm gonna go with munging.
Good choice, sir.
Good choice.
I'll go with the ham wallet.
All right.
Oh, listeners.
We'll come back to this.
Hopefully you can just email us and tell us if we made good choices.
Yeah, we'll let you, the listener, choose.
Send us an email with your experiences.
Yeah, what's your preferred?
I don't know.
What do you call these things?
Sex fetishes?
Yeah. Send us an email.
Drop us a line.
Let us know what you're into and give us a brief description.
Yes. Please do.
We want nothing more but to hear that.
So anyway, over the next couple of weeks, more calls and more harassment would ensue.
One day, while Cindy was at work, Ozzy was at her house doing his thing, and I have questions about what he was doing while he was there, but...
He said that he had answered one such phone call, and I'm not sure how that call went, but according to Ian Milgrew, another dead cat was found inside the house on the stairwell.
I too have questions now about what exactly he was doing while he was there.
A couple questions there.
And then on July 1st, Cindy, at home alone, would say that two men had come to her front door.
They were dressed as police officers, but when Cindy used the two-way radio to call up Olazi, the two men ran away.
The calls would persist.
In one of these subsequent phone calls, the person on the other end said, Even a co-worker at the Blenheim house would receive a call.
This time, The caller said.
Get rid of the big pig!
Ouch! Oh!
Not again!
No! Owie!
Why me?
Mom! I stubbed my toe again.
Yeah, he really loves his mother.
And he's still living at home, making these calls, and stubs his toe all the time.
Yeah, might want to...
Toe-proof your house there, bud.
If there's one thing I have been able to put together on this person, whether it's a man or a woman, is that they are a Casanova with words, a poet without borders.
Oh yeah, our creepy caller definitely did some studying in contemporary writing, at the very least, and I'm sure is quite philosophical.
So the police didn't completely ignore her.
There was enough going on and enough eyewitness reports to keep the fire lit.
But every time they would perform one of those 24 hour stakeouts on Cindy's house and have up to 14 cops on duty, nothing would ever happen.
There would be no phone calls, no notes being left anywhere, no rocks being thrown through windows, no intruders, no pillows being slashed, no gardens destroyed with dead cats.
Nothing. And Neil Hall would add that the police spent around $1.5 million investigating all of these allegations by Cindy, you know, over the seven years, and yet they'd have no solid suspects.
And then, once the surveillance missions were over, the incidents would pick back up.
To the police, this clearly meant that either Cindy was staging everything, which was their number one theory, and were investigating the case from that angle, or whoever was behind this had to...
Very good knowledge of the police presence and of Ozzy, and they weren't even interested in that angle.
I could see how with her demeanor and just how after all those man hours and all those dollars and they haven't turned up one single fucking thing, like no lead, no nothing, that you would start to think, man,
is this person just doing it themselves?
Like, how are we not getting anything, you know?
So Cindy's mother.
Tilly, you remember her, right?
Well, she would spend the night at Cindy's house on July 9th, 1984.
During the middle of the night, Heidi started barking incessantly, which woke Tilly up.
When she awoke and started to check on things, she found that Cindy was already going through the house on the main floor to make sure the windows and doors were still locked.
Then, all of a sudden, they were freaked out by the ring of the doorbell.
Like any Scooby-Doo episode, the two women would walk around the house looking around further.
They'd also discover that the front porch window had been cracked in several places.
Okay, so now there's, like, more physical evidence at the house, I suppose, but still it's unclear and not proven who's doing it or who's not doing it.
No evidence whatsoever of that kind.
And her mom was there sort of as a witness to something?
Sort of, I guess?
Yeah, like the sounds at least?
Oh, the doorbell ringing.
Yeah. I guess.
Could have been anyone, eh?
Let's go ring the doorbell and run.
Yeah, shit, it could have been an Avon salesman.
You know what I mean?
Yeah. You just don't even know.
They come at any time of the night, man.
They're just trying to get you some new sighting.
Now let's go to July 23rd.
Cindy had informed Ozzy that she was going to walk to Dunbar Park with her dog right around 8.30pm all alone.
Now my question is, after hearing that, why would you be walking around at night alone if you're truly in fear of all these attacks like...
If you hadn't been able to prove anything and the cops hadn't been able to prove anything over all this time, wouldn't you want to have at least somebody with you so that just on the off chance someone's surveilling you, then that person would be able to bear witness to it as well?
And I know maybe that seems unrealistic over that long period of time to constantly have someone with you, but fuck, I mean, how much do you want these people to be caught?
These quote-unquote people to be caught, you know?
If you are being consistently harassed like Cindy was, why would you even have the thought of going out at night to walk your dog alone in a park?
Exactly. Whoever's doing this to you is watching you.
They know your every movement.
Exactly. Unless it's you doing it to yourself.
Yeah, I mean, if you're that good to avoid detection over that period of time, yeah, it's your...
I mean, you got no chance if you're going out alone.
You're like, come on and get me!
Just makes no sense.
But she would later say that as she was walking her dog, she was approached by a green van which stopped next to her.
Inside the green van was a bearded male driver and there was a female passenger.
She said they pulled up next to her to ask for directions.
That was all she could remember up until she was found in a confused and dazed state as she was trying to get inside a neighbor's house.
She also had a dark gray or black nylon stocking tied tightly around her neck.
And where's Heidi?
The dog.
Once Ozzy was summoned, he would find Heidi running around Dunbar Park.
But Cindy would be taken to the University of British Columbia Health and Sciences Center to be treated.
And according to Ian Mulgrew, the doctors there would find two puncture marks in her right arm.
And while Cindy was being looked over, the receptionist received a phone call.
The caller was said to be a man with an accent.
What accent?
Who knows?
But this man apparently asked about the hospital's security policies.
Boy, that is pretty suspicious.
Yeah, so if she is doing this to herself, who's this caller then?
Right, like, she'd have to be working in tandem with someone else.
Like, they'd both have to be in on it together.
And that just seems like too much effort over all this time.
Because there's nothing to hide.
There's, like, nothing to cover up.
You know?
It'd be so much effort to go to if you were.
And when the police had the receptionist listen to a voice recording of Roy Makepeace, the receptionist said that there was a strong possibility that it was Roy.
But who knows?
I mean, did Roy have an accent?
I'm assuming he did since he was from South Africa, so I'd assume he'd have at least some kind of a prominent, either, you know, like a British-sounding accent or, you know, something of that nature.
I mean, maybe.
I don't know for sure.
Yeah, maybe.
But here's my bit on that call and the police accusing Roy of making it.
Roy Makepeace worked at UBC for nearly a decade in high standing, so I'd think he would have a decent understanding of the security policies around the university.
And I'd think, why would he put himself out there and risk it all by asking about something he most likely already knew?
Or maybe he just wanted to see if they changed the policies since he left?
Or maybe he figured somebody would put that together.
That he should know the policies of security.
So by asking, he rules himself out because they're like, oh, well, Roy would know.
He wouldn't ask because he spent so much time there.
I don't know.
That's kind of thin.
But it probably wasn't him.
I mean, it was probably just some random guy with an accent who had an interest in hospital security policies.
Those guys are everywhere.
True. Either that or maybe the caller was a security contractor looking to expand his business model.
You know, you can't rule it out.
Also true.
Can't rule it out.
Cindy's system was tested for substances, but the only thing found were the antidepressants that she was taking.
At this point, both Ozzy and Cindy went to the police to complain about their lack of an investigation into the matters.
But in the eyes of the police, they had already done a hell of a lot and had just come up empty-handed on every turn.
They surveilled her house multiple times, they interviewed every one of her co-workers and friends, and according to Medium.com, they even had Interpol Look into Roy's background, but came up with nothing.
Whoa, okay.
I mean...
That's pretty big.
Yeah, that is big.
So they actually look into this guy's record, see what kind of a person he's been, and there's nothing there.
Now, unless he's, like, some kind of deep...
He probably wouldn't be.
Well, unless he's some kind of deep-cover CIA agent, but, yeah, that's probably not the case here on American soil, but...
Okay, so remember how Cindy may have seen something at Gabriola Island, which she would often visit with her husband Roy, even after they were separated, to see his good friend, Dr. James Tyhurst, and other psychiatric colleagues?
Oh yeah, definitely.
That was pretty weird shit, for sure.
According to Ian Milguru, in October of 1984, Cindy would see a hypnotherapist.
Ian says that under hypnosis, Cindy would talk about a repressed memory that she had, one of being a witness to a double murder.
But that was as far as it got.
She couldn't or wouldn't say who the culprit or culprits were of that double murder.
I remember she just kind of hinted on it and then, you know, like, it just sort of went away.
And now we find ourselves right after that last attack in July of 1984.
The calls kept coming, and the police decided that they should try to trace the calls, you know, as conduct some other surveillance.
But unfortunately, none of the calls were long enough for the police to trace, and once again, the surveillance wasn't upset.
Oh, man, just thwarted at every turn.
Like the ducks against the...
Who the fuck is the other one?
You're such a bastard.
Goddammit, the badgers?
Who the fuck is it?
The beavers, homie.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
You're an asshole, by the way.
So now, Scott, why don't we go to January of 1985?
Ooh, another fine year to be alive and thriving.
High Cell Stadium disaster, which killed 39 people, I think, if I remember correct.
Yep, and Live Aid did that 16-hour concert.
So fickin' sick, bruh!
Remember when we ripped off that cooler lid and I was crowd surfing on that shit?
Yeah, man, I made it all the way from stage left, made it all the way to stage right, like, right there next to the stage, bro.
That's where...
If I remember correct, Fairy peed on me.
Yeah, that was wild, man.
And it was still really early, like minutes into the show, man.
Shit was popping off immediately.
I'd say it was crazier than any Burning Man I've ever been to, that's for sure.
Oh yeah, man.
And to think that it was a fundraiser to help feed all the children that Sally Struthers stole from.
Yeah, she stole all their food.
So the world came together and created this super fun, awesome fundraiser with super cute bands playing.
It was definitely a hit with all the governments, bro.
Almost too wild at times.
Yeah, it got kind of wet.
Pretty much just where you were.
Oh, yeah, right.
Anyway, 1985.
So the Unabomber, right?
Ted Kaczynski killed his first victim.
He just died, by the way, back on June 10th.
He hanged himself.
Yeah, they say.
Crazy. Yeah, he was 81 years old.
Yeah, they say it's a suspected suicide.
Suspected. Maybe.
Maybe he was Jeff Ept.
Well, most likely, never know.
But what we do know is that CDs were introduced in 1985.
You know, those thin circular discs, compact discs, remember those?
They sure came and went, didn't they?
They sure did.
But that crazy Mexican earthquake also happened, which killed around 9,000 people.
Oh, yeah.
And there was that time when over 500 traveling hippies battled with 1,300 police while on their way to Stonehenge to hang out at the Stonehenge Free Festival.
No one died, but there were a lot of arrests.
Yes, there were, but there was also something bigger.
The volcanic eruption in Columbia that killed 25,000 people.
There was that.
But let's move on.
The listeners don't want to hear a bunch of random facts about 1985.
Yeah, you're probably right.
As fantastic of a year as it was, though.
It is true.
In January of 1985, Cindy would again go under hypnosis.
This time, she would talk about witnessing Roy make peace murdering a man and a woman and then chopping them up with an axe while they were vacationing at Thornby Island, which is about five and a half hours by car from Gabriola Island, or about 15 and a half
hours by foot and foot.
Gotta hand it to you, man.
You're always bringing the pertinent information to the listeners.
Good for you, dog.
That piece of information comes from numerous sources, including the Associated Press and the Vancouver Sun.
And according to Neil Hall in his article, James Inquest held grisly fare for Corona's jury and journalists.
For the Vancouver Sun, Cindy would say that...
Mid-dismemberment of the bodies, he stopped and smeared the victim's blood all over her face.
But according to Mulgrew, Cindy's sister, Melanie, she was present on this vacation and said that she did not remember that specific event happening.
Yeah, right.
Not that one in particular, but the other three or four, you know, things that she remembers, they're not brought up.
So, yeah, just forget about it.
Also, just hear me out.
Maybe Cindy and Roy went to Thormanby Island on more than one occasion, right?
And maybe Melanie was just not present at that time.
It's not like she was there for every trip.
Right, yeah.
Why would Melanie just always go with her sister and her sister's husband to this island every time?
Yeah, totally.
Yeah, no.
I don't see that happening.
So in June of 1985, Cindy would appear to have attempted suicide by ingesting a bunch of prescription drugs, presumably her antidepressants.
Although she later said that she was not trying to kill herself.
For this, she was involuntarily committed to the Lionsgate Hospital Psychiatric Unit in Vancouver.
Come July 2nd, the police asked her to make a phone call to Roy.
The plan was to record this call and get Roy to incriminate himself in some way or to outright admit to being the person behind this intricate and diabolical harassment.
Cindy would agree.
During the call, Cindy would bring up the regressed memory of him murdering two people at the cabin and being the person responsible for her living nightmare.
Roy completely denied any and all accusations thrown at him and told him that she was insane and only out to tarnish him and his reputation, all out of some sort of revenge plot.
When she prompted him of this, he said, My God, I'm certainly denying it.
I've always denied it.
I have absolutely nothing whatever to do with it.
Wow, he was...
You believe him?
Yeah, I don't know, hard to say.
I mean, I feel like the accent makes him more believable, sort of gives him more cred.
Say that in just a regular American accent.
Yeah, right, right.
My God, I'm certainly denying it.
I've always denied it.
I have absolutely nothing whatever to do with it.
Fucking guilty, bro.
Don't you just want to toss that person away and throw away the key, you know?
A lot worse than that.
Hang him right now.
Fucking American.
Yeah, exactly, bro.
But my question...
You know, here is revenge for what, exactly?
Yeah, I mean, what's...
Why would you want revenge on him?
Where's the missing piece here?
Isn't she the one that left him in the end, after all?
I mean, kind of.
We don't really know.
We don't really know the deep, intricate part of that part.
I think that's just it, man.
I think there's just too much under the surface.
Like, how could we possibly say, but...
He keeps bringing up the mafia, the mafia, the mafia.
Mafia, mafia, yeah.
Yeah. Well, maybe we just need to do a lot more meth and scratch at the surface of our skin.
Ooh, maybe we can find some hints.
Dang. Yeah, I'm with you.
Let's do it.
But while we don't know the exact reasons behind their eventual divorce, we are privy to Cindy's allegations that he was abusive toward her and that he himself said that he did hit her a few times.
So is that the reason for this insane plot for revenge in which she is doing all of this to herself for nearly seven years?
Sounds a bit of a stretch, right?
Yeah, I think it's the seven years of it.
It's just like that's so much effort over that period of time.
Like somebody would slip.
Like how is she so good at it without getting caught?
How is she so good?
I mean, it's just crazy because the person's not getting caught, but she's also not getting caught doing it to herself.
No one's sneaking up, staging anything.
No one's seen shit.
Then there's the cop that's living with her, but maybe he's in on it.
I don't know, man.
Well, right after that call was ended, the cops would put surveillance on Roy.
And Cindy herself.
And get this.
Two other unnamed suspects for an entire week.
Whoa! Who the hell are these two unnamed suspects, man?
Great fucking question, man.
We all want to know, but we don't.
So despite all of the surveillance, again, nothing out of the ordinary was seen or heard, and the whole thing was terminated.
Of course.
Just like it's been going.
Furthermore, the cops did some investigating into missing people's cases around the islands during that time, but came up with, you know, no missing people.
They found nothing to indicate that Roy Makepeace was responsible for any murder.
But we should take that with a grain of salt if we are to consider that maybe the two people were not from the area and wouldn't be reported.
And if we were to consider the possibility that Roy was being protected and or helped by the police...
And maybe even by powers higher up in charge of government programs in which Cindy was a possible subject.
That is one theory that people have.
I mean, I guess I could see that angle a little bit.
Not so much with the government part, but just the reason that they're not hitting on any local databases because, well, shit, maybe they weren't locals.
I mean, a lot of people, like, there's a trend even right now.
And this is just reported to me by people that actually live there.
But people are going down into Mexico, like Americans are going down there because it's close, committing crimes on other people that are going down into Mexico, like tourists, and then they come back up to America.
So then the American officials are like, oh, well, we have another tourist couple that was attacked and killed by cartel Mexicans, when really it's just like fucked up Americans who are going down there and using it as like a, you know, killing ground.
I guess you might say.
That's pretty crazy, man.
Sometime in early July, Cindy had received a small package at home.
Inside was a dark nylon stocking and a note that said, Blood flowing freely.
And just a few weeks later, she would reportedly find one of those cosmetic containers for spectacular touch-ups on her front porch.
Inside was rotting meat.
But then, on August 5th, 1985, Cindy would discover the first of three fires in her house.
When the police arrived, they found small pieces of burnt newspaper pages throughout one of the bedrooms.
Upon finding nothing else of too much concern or anything at all, the police just left.
The next day, Cindy would report another fire.
Again, the police doubted her and left.
Oh, yeah.
The port's fire, and then they get there, and there's, you know.
They said there's some scraps of burnt newspapers.
Yeah. I'd start to get a little frustrated myself.
A few weeks after that, on August 21st, there would be a third fire which was started in the basement around 4.45am.
When the firefighters arrived, they noticed Cindy having a heated talk with Ozzy Kaban about taking her dog out for a walk at 3.15am only to return home to find the fire.
Why are you walking outside at 3.15am with the dog?
It doesn't make any sense.
After more attacks happening, what the fuck?
Yes. Oh,
man, the facade is starting to crumble.
Psychologist Dr. Anthony Marcus would be hired by the RCMP to conduct some interviews with Cindy and go over the case files to try to get some answers.
Because we all want answers.
After his analysis, he thought that Cindy was faking it all.
That is, that she was doing all of this to herself.
Much like the RCMP who hired him believed.
Anthony would go on to say that the male officers were being...
Conned by the...
*gurgling* Historonics of a pretty woman and a scent so sweet you find yourself drooling spittle all about your chin and knitted bib mother made for you present
day *gurgling* prior
Should we get him an intervention?
Yeah. That guy's a couple too many whiskeys deep, I think.
I hope he's not performing surgeries in this state.
He seems to be performing some kind of thespian work.
He also thought that Cindy might have had Dissociated Identity Disorder, which is only one diagnosis out of the 298 diagnoses in the DSM-5 TR.
I mean, it's a possibility, a situation where the right hand truly doesn't know what the left hand is doing.
He said that the disorder might have come from a traumatic childhood incident, even though he didn't even ask her anything about her early life.
Oh, man.
Yeah, so...
What a doctor.
Yeah, he's just like, oh, it's probably some trauma.
And they're like, oh, wait, we've never talked about any trauma.
Feeling like she needed to move again, she would move into a house in Richmond, Canada, just south of Vancouver, on December 1st, 1985.
And ten days later, on the 11th, right around 6 p.m., Cindy was found semi-conscious in a ditch by passing motorists near the University of British Columbia campus and almost six kilometers, or nearly four miles, from where she lived.
Cindy was found wearing a pair of men's work boots and a single glove, but she also had a dark or black nylon stocking tied tightly around her neck.
She was also suffering from hypothermia and rushed to a hospital where numerous cuts and bruises would be discovered all over her body.
It was suspected that she had been injected with a tranquilizer, but I'm not sure if anything came up positive for that.
Cindy said that she had no memory at all of what happened.
The last thing she said she remembered was having lunch away from work and then went to a pharmacy to get her prescriptions, but then nothing after that.
It's always so just convenient.
She has not even a single solitary detail at all during the time when these things are purported to have been happening.
She would then take a trip to visit her brother in Germany for Christmas, all the while feeling that the police were not taking her seriously.
When she returned in early 1986, Cindy would try a different tactic.
She would change her last name from Makepeace to James.
James? James?
Man, that's...
I don't know.
Why James?
Why James?
That's crazy.
Why James?
Because her ex-husband, separated husband, his friend is Dr. James Tyhurst, right?
Oh, hey!
Dr. James Tyhurst, who she...
Accuses of helping her husband do weird shit to women on that island.
Interesting. Even to her.
And so...
Man. You gotta think about that.
Dr. James Tyhurst is involved in this somehow.
Somehow. Why would she change her last name from Makepeace to James?
That's crazy.
Weird. In an effort to help Cindy feel safe, her friend Agnes Woodcock and her husband Tom would spend nights over at her house with her.
Oh, well surely nothing's gonna happen, right?
Surely. On April 16th, Cindy started running about the house, which woke Agnes and Tom up.
Cindy said she heard something, so the three of them began to investigate.
No, Velma, don't go down there, it's dark.
Okay, quick, when she starts walking down the steps...
Norval, you pour the marbles.
Daphne, you dump the motor oil.
And I'll throw this pepper spray bomb and smoke bomb down the stairway, then slam the door.
Scoob, you just eat your snacks.
Damn, that was a cold, cold move, Fred.
Cold, cold move.
What did Velma do to piss you guys off?
Yeah, that's messed up, man.
I do have a question.
More of a comment, I guess.
But why is it that whenever there are people over who are witnesses, why does it seem like Cindy is always the first one up making a ruckus?
She's just, like, moving around doing something before anybody else is there.
That's another good point.
Maybe it's a coincidence.
Maybe it's because she can't sleep and is always hyper alert.
I mean, I don't know.
It just seems fishy because they all report, like, Cindy was already up.
She's moving about the house.
She's doing shit.
Like, eh, it's a little too...
Yeah, it's weird.
Yeah, you know?
Once the trio made it to the basement, they found that another fire was started.
They made their way to call the fire department, but the phone was dead.
Tom then ran to a neighbor's house where he could call the police, but as he made his way outside, he saw a man in the street near the house.
And when Tom started to walk up to this man, the man turned and ran away.
Ooh! Well, if that's true, that is spooky.
That's really spooky.
Following that mess, Cindy would stay with the Woodcocks for several days, and they would note that she would refuse to eat and even made comments that her life was not worth living anymore.
There was another psychiatrist that had been treating Cindy since January of 1983, and he thought she was suicidal at this point.
He had her committed to the psych ward at St. Paul's Hospital for two weeks for observation.
They observed that Cindy was suffering from anorexia and depression.
Following her stay there, she was transferred to the Riverview Hospital, where a much more comprehensive psychological examination could take place.
We will now have a random guy off the street who is with us now.
Impersonate Christopher Walken as he paraphrases that report.
Cindy was initially resistant and would only answer in one word responses.
She refused eye contact and to discuss a number of topics.
On a second date, she was in a better mood and was willing to talk.
She wasn't sure how the tests they were having her do could be used.
She would keep eye contact.
Until the topic of the incidents, at which point she would look down or cover her eyes and speak haltingly.
She seemed very upset and cried a lot when talking about them.
She kept asking if her responses made her look crazy.
She had a well above average IQ.
This type of person can have unpredictable moods, pessimism, sullenness vacillating with social agreement and friendliness.
They tend to anticipate and precipitate disappointments through their obstructive and negative behavior.
Thanks, guy off the street.
Yeah, seriously.
Thanks for coming in and giving us your insight and doing that Christopher Walken, that huge honor.
That's pretty good.
Impersonating him.
So spot on, man.
Where'd you find that guy?
He was just outside at the bagel shop down there getting a smear.
Oh, yeah.
As they do.
As they do.
Yeah. I was like, hey, buddy, you want to come do this reading on this podcast with me?
He was like, no.
I got him in here somehow.
Yeah, that's how all our guests are.
They're like, nope.
And we're like, come on!
And they're like, nope.
And then we usually just deal with it.
But I guess that guy, you know, he actually came through for us.
So thanks, man!
Yeah. Alright, later, dude.
Later. During his stay in the psychiatric department, Cindy would write a note, which read, I still feel suicide is my best option in an unbearable situation, and as soon as I get out of here, I will carry out my plan.
Wow, the manifesto.
And after a lengthy 10-week stay at Riverview Hospital, She was released.
While spending time with her father, she would spill some beans, Scott.
Now hold up.
What kind of beans were spilled?
Because there could be a real tragedy in our hands here.
We're talking coffee beans?
Jelly beans?
Baked beans?
Boston baked beans?
Bean beans?
She would tell her dad that she was withholding information about all these alleged attacks going on.
She also said that she knew who it was, but she wouldn't...
Whoa! What a crazy carrot to suddenly dangle out there.
That's crazy.
I still want to know about the beans, but that is crazy.
Now that it's August of 1987, Cindy would begin working at Richmond General Hospital as a nurse.
On the 28th, a back window would be broken out of her house, and the alarm system would go off.
The cops would come and go.
Then three days later...
Cindy would tell police that the light bulbs on her front porch were loosened so that they would not work.
The cops would ignore her.
The next week, she would report to police that someone used a glass cutter to make a hole in a basement door window, and the cops would actually look into it.
No, no, they would look through it.
Yeah, you know?
You're right.
You see what I mean?
You see what I mean?
Yeah, you're right.
Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
The months would go by, and all the usual shit would continue to happen.
And in February of 1988, she would tell police that someone had put electrical tape all over a window of her house so that when it was shattered, it wouldn't make a lot of noise.
Or a mess, I guess, for that matter.
October would roll around, and this is when Roy received two voice messages on his home answering machine.
One of the messages said, Cindy, dead meat soon.
The other message said, More smack.
More downers.
Another grand after we wasted the cunt.
No more deal.
These are a little bit vague, slightly obscure, but a little bit of ransom action suddenly going on here, maybe a little bit.
Yeah, let's see here.
So two weeks and one day later.
Fifteen days.
Let's just say fifteen days, alright?
Well, mate, I'll say what I want to say, you big wallaby.
One week and eight days later, Cindy would be found unconscious in her garage.
She was naked from the waist down.
She was hog-tied and had this signature black nylon stocking tied tightly around her fragile neck.
Yeah, I mean, for real.
If it is legit and she's not doing this to herself, which, I mean, how do you hog-tie yourself?
Um, yeah.
She's having...
I can see why she would want to just end it all and be like, no, fuck this, I'm done.
So this time, the RCMP would hire a mountain climber and knot expert, Robert Chisnall, to look at the knots on the stockings and give them his opinion on whether Cindy was doing this to herself.
So Robert would come back and say that it was highly unlikely that Cindy would have been able to tie those knots, especially in the position that she was found in.
Yeah, exactly.
I feel like there's at least someone in on it with her, which we've maybe sort of suspected this entire time.
Or she's really getting attacked and the police are just like shitty at doing their job.
Jumping to January of 1989, Cindy would invite life insurance salesman Richard Johnston to live with her in the basement.
She had purchased a policy from Richard and seemingly felt comfortable enough with him to invite him to live with her.
I wonder who the benefactor of this policy was, you know, probably Richard Johnston, you know, most likely man.
And things appear to be going well with Richard in the basement, you know, things are still happening, but it gave Cindy some peace of mind knowing that a strong man not afraid of playing with life and working.
Oh, yeah.
I'm sure...
Solved every problem.
She just invites all these men to live with her.
It's kind of weird.
Yeah, she's like, hey, come live with me.
I'm so comfortable with you.
It's like not even her friends, like not even her close friends that she asked to live with her.
It's like an insurance salesman.
Yeah, random people that come into her life.
She's like, please live with me.
I'd be like, whoa, red flag.
And then on April 8th, a security guard at the hospital where Cindy worked at found a note that was made from cut and pasted letters from magazines which read, Soon, Cindy.
Written in the dew on her windshield would also be found the words, Sleep well.
On April 29th, there would be another reported attempted break-in.
This time, the RCMP would use trained scent dogs to try to track down who this intruder was.
But, as can be expected, the dogs found nothing.
In the following month, there would be another attempted break-in and the dogs would be brought back.
And this time, they tracked the scent of an unknown person which led over the backyard fence of Cindy's house.
So that's interesting, because you would think if it was Cindy going around and doing these things, the dogs would have just, like, circled back to Cindy.
I mean, right?
Isn't that how that works?
So... You'd think.
They didn't...
Oh, the dogs just keep, like, barking at you, Cindy!
I mean, that could have been a damning arrow in that direction, but it's not.
So, yeah, maybe they're...
I mean, I guess there is really a second party.
And then, like, they followed a scent.
Over the backyard fence, but it's like, that could be anybody.
I suppose.
I guess it depends on your yard.
You know, like, do you live next to people that would climb over the fence?
Like, kids trying to get a baseball or a frisbee.
Right. Or is this, like, in the middle of nowhere and no one's ever coming and going, like, from the fence?
Because that's a little suspect.
So this is when the whole thing about the cost of the investigations comes into play and how the police felt that she was staging everything herself.
That all came to light.
And then Cindy wrote a complaint against the RCMP and could only give a positive review for one of the officers, a Jerry Anderson, because as she put it, he had patience, professional conduct, and was exemplary in his investigations.
She said that he was the only officer with the RCMP.
Now, do we know if this Jerry Anderson ever lived with Cindy?
As a live-in bodyguard at any point?
You know?
Aside from that, what about Pat McBride?
She seemed to feel pretty comfortable with him, for a while there at least.
Yeah, you know, I'm not sure what happened with Pat.
He lived with her in the beginning, they had a romantic relationship for about a year, and then he just sort of disappeared from this whole picture.
I don't know what happened there, but I feel something happened between the two of them.
Or all this shit really was happening, and he was like, I gotta get out of here, dude.
Like, I don't know what's going on here.
So Scott, as you know, usually there is a spot in the episode where I'm like, Scott, this is when shit gets crazy.
You know?
That's true.
There usually is.
So, shit's about to get crazy.
Oh, shit's getting crazy now.
Copy that.
On May 25th, 1989, right around 4pm, Cindy would pick up her paycheck from Richmond General Hospital.
While there, she spoke with a co-worker, Who would later say that Cindy appeared to be in a good mood.
This co-worker also said that Cindy told her that she had not been experiencing any weird shit at her house for the last couple of weeks.
Cindy was then spotted some hours later buying groceries at a Safeway.
For those who don't know, Safeway is just another supermarket that sells food and a million other things.
Has a pharmacy, gas station.
So after purchasing a bunch of groceries, she then went to a Bank of Montreal at the Blundell Shopping Center.
Another person at that bank had stood in the line behind Cindy at the ATM where Cindy would deposit her paycheck at about 8pm.
According to Gerald Young, in his article, Dead Women Had Wanted Gun for Protection, investigator says, for the Ottawa Citizen newspaper, Cindy was scheduled to have an infrared security system installed in her house.
Whoa, that would have been spendy as fuck, right?
In the 1980s?
Infrared security camera?
Or security system, I should say?
We're talking.
Thousands and thousands of dollars.
So after that, she had plans to go see Agnes and Tom at their house to play a quick game of the always exciting game of bridge, and she was going to stay the night there.
The problem was that Cindy never arrived.
That is when the Woodcocks decided that they would go over to Cindy's house to check on her, and they arrived there at about 10pm.
They noticed that her Chevrolet citation was gone, and then found that the house was locked as it should have been.
They did, however, run into Richard Johnston, who was living in the basement section of the house.
All he could tell them was that Cindy told him that she was just going out to buy some groceries.
The Woodcocks then drove toward the Blundell Shopping Center and looked around for Cindy's car, and sure enough, there it was, abandoned in the parking lot.
They immediately went to the Richmond RCMP station and reported Cindy missing.
Even though she had only been technically missing for a few hours, Given her history with these incidents happening, the police actually did send a patrol car to investigate.
Yeah, I mean, I feel like they were probably at a point where you have these other people now from the public coming in to talk about Cindy.
They're like, oh, we have to do something.
We can't, you know, otherwise they'll accuse us of being negligent.
You know, these good people here.
So while they looked over Cindy's car, they found blood on the inside driver's door.
On the groceries that she had bought earlier that day, and on a gift that she bought for one of her friend's sons.
They also found that the contents of Cindy's purse and wallet were found scattered underneath her car, but Cindy was nowhere to be found.
Oh man, creepy!
Police were sent to her house to do an inspection, but they found that nothing had been disturbed.
They said that everything was orderly and clean, and noted that there were a lot of well-tended houseplants all over the place.
Sounds like more places to hide for me.
Yeah, man, a little jungle in there.
Still being unable to find Cindy.
The Canadian Coast Guard deployed multiple searches all over the area with a heightened search of rivers and the Strait of Georgia.
But still, there was no sign of her.
Just days after Cindy went missing, Richard Johnston, the life insurance salesman, and the basement tenant of Cindy's, told police that he had received a phone call at his office from a man who claimed to be Cindy's dad.
And he asked about Cindy's policy.
Richard told the man that he would need to come into the office to talk about such matters as they could not be discussed over the phone.
Autohack, Cindy's dad, denied making that phone call.
Ooh, slick move on Richard's part there.
He's like, well, man, yeah, I'd love to talk to you about that, but you're going to have to come in, and we're going to have to sit down face-to-face, so slick move.
Yeah, so we can rule Richard Johnson out of this, right?
He sounds legit.
Yeah, and her dad, who'd be like, yeah, I'll be there tomorrow.
And then comes the day of June 8th, 1989, or about two weeks after Cindy went missing.
A road worker, Gordon Starchuk, found Cindy's lifeless body in the backyard of an abandoned house at 8111 Blundell Road in Richmond while scouting for a good spot to piss, just south of Vancouver.
Her body was hogtied, that is, her hands and feet were tied together from behind.
She was found sort of on her right side and face down.
She had a black nylon stocking tied tightly around her neck.
She was also just about one mile away from where her car was found.
The scene is pretty strange.
So she was found with her coat off and lying in the grass nearby.
The abandoned house had an exterior fuel tank which had graffiti on it.
This graffiti was in orange spray paint and read, Some bitch died here.
There was a line made with the same spray paint that led along the ground from the tank to where Cindy's body was, and a circle was made around her body.
Inside the house, another spray-painted word was found, presumably made with the same spray paint, which read, Devil.
What a weird scene.
This is crazy.
A pathologist would arrive at the scene, and Sheila Carlisle would make the examination.
She noted that Cindy's hands had been tied so tightly together that one of her fingernails had scratched another finger.
Whoa. There seemed to be a small needle mark or pinprick located on her inner right elbow.
Always these needle marks keep showing up.
And there's like never anything in her system until this time.
During the autopsy, it was found that Cindy had morphine, diazepam, and florazepam in her system.
Morphine being a pain management narcotic, diazepam being an anti-anxiety medication, and florazepam being a skeletal muscle relaxant.
When her stomach contents were analyzed, it was found that she had 20-30mg tablets of therazepam, as well as diazepam.
The examiner said that that alone would have been lethal.
They could not determine how the morphine was ingested, but did say that it was possible that it had been injected.
But if that was the case, the amount was so high that Cindy would have been unconscious within a handful of minutes, and would have died within just...
The medical examiner decided that Cindy had died of a drug overdose, but added that the amount of drugs were so large that there was no reliable estimate of how long Cindy could have remained functional.
Based on their own assumptions that Cindy had been orchestrating the years of her own harassment, the RCMP decided that her death was either the result of a suicide or an accident.
Of course, the news gobbled it up.
That's not really doing the whole thing justice, but, you know, I think, and as is still the case, like, just even recently with the Idaho murders, a local news or national news, um...
Outfit would much rather tell people, oh, well, she killed herself, instead of say, oh, there's a deranged, torturous killer on the loose that's been terrorizing this person for seven years.
We have no leads and no suspects.
We don't know who it is, so there's still a large, right?
Keep the public calm.
Exactly. So, Scott, you know what liver mortis is, right?
Of course!
Post-mortem lividity, or hypostasis, or sedulation.
Yeah, it's when the blood in a freshly deceased body settles in the lower extremities or parts of the body.
And that is, if the person is on their back, because of gravity, the blood will settle in the areas of the body closest to the ground, i.e.
their back.
Yeah, exactly.
And liver mortis generally begins settling in about within a half an hour, but it's not typically noticeable to the human eye until about two hours after death.
and between the next 3 to 6 hours, the size of the liver mortis would increase dramatically, and then the maximum lividity occurs between 8 and 12 hours after death.
Coroners and medical examiners alike use the science of liver mortis to determine an approximate time of death.
And it is also a great way to tell if a dead body had been moved from its original location to a different location.
Okay, yeah, sure.
Alright, I'm with you.
So Ozzy Caban would visit Cindy's body in the morgue on June 10th and make his own observations.
He observed that the lividity was noticeable on the left side of her body, but he found this to be odd because, as I said earlier, she was found on her right side.
To Ozzy, and many others, this meant that Cindy had died somewhere else and was placed on her left side there, hence the lividity on her left side.
You know, she must have been laying on her left side for a couple hours, a few hours.
And then this person or these people moved her body to where it was found and mistakenly placed her on her right side or maybe didn't even know about lividity.
Yeah, and that's one of those things.
You can't fake that.
You can't orchestrate it.
It's going to be where it's going to be, because that's how the body was sitting for that amount of time to cause it to pool, the blood to pool.
But that didn't matter much, dear listeners.
Cindy's memorial service was held on June 14th, 1989, only two days after what would have been her 45th birthday.
The police set up hidden cameras to record everyone in attendance and document the license plates of all of the vehicles.
Roy Makepeace did not attend the service, and that can be understandable.
and the house where her body was found was demolished after the discovery.
Oh, man.
Any remaining evidence gone.
There was an extensive inquest into her death.
This consisted of five jurors to make the final determination and over 80 witnesses testifying.
It was scheduled for three weeks but would be extended for a total of 40 days, which was the longest and most expensive inquest in British Columbia at the time.
It was a tense inquest and Roy Makepeace would make many accusations against Cindy's family.
One such accusation was that he believed Cindy's father was physically abusive toward her in her childhood and that one of her brothers molested her.
He also accused the RCMP of trying to frame him for Cindy's harassment and eventual death.
It's interesting to note that after her death, Cindy's parents would discover large stashes of different medications that were prescribed to Cindy by doctors.
These were sedatives and antipsychotic medications.
Her parents would flush all these down the toilet, which we do not suggest you do with your old and leftover medications.
No, definitely don't do that.
I'd just safely put them all in shopping carts and then push them to where the less fortunate or the homeless or the poor folk live and then go, boom!
We bring you love, joy, and happiness!
You know, no need to waste that shit.
Give it to the people who need it, man.
Or could use it in a way that can change lives, you know?
In ways that no one else could.
Melanie. Yeah, I know.
It's kind of pumped up.
Sorry, bro.
That's a joke, people.
It's a joke.
Melanie, one of Cindy's younger sisters, would also say that she found something strange in Cindy's belongings.
These items included a catheter, saline solution, a medical syringe kit, and a glass cutter.
Oh, man.
The plot thickens.
Numerous psychologists and psychiatrists who worked with Cindy over the years would also give their testimony.
Dr. Wesley Friesen, who worked with Cindy for a very long time, many years, said he believed Cindy suffered from borderline personality disorder with elements of post-traumatic stress disorder.
He believed that Cindy had a tremendous amount of rage against her father.
He also felt that she was sexually abused by her father when she was a child, despite Cindy never mentioning anything about any form of abuse by her father.
Which, you know, that could be normal.
People... Bury that stuff down so deep that they quote-unquote forget that it happened, but your brain and your body don't forget.
Yeah, and the doctor said he believed this stuff happened, so it's not set in stone there.
And then there was the question about whether or not Cindy could have tied herself up the way she was found.
Remember Robert Chisnell, the rock climber and expert knot tying guy that the RCMP hired?
To see if Cindy could even tie the knots found during some of the alleged attacks.
Oh, yes, yes, yes.
And how he said that Cindy most likely could not have tied those knots.
Well, they had him come back and testify for the inquest.
And this time, they gave him the same length of nylon that Cindy was bound with.
And Robert Chisnall then demonstrated how Cindy could have bound herself within a three-minute time frame.
The three-minute time frame was given to account for the amount of debilitating drugs in her system.
This time, Robert felt that Cindy could have ingested a lethal amount of drugs, including an injection with a needle, and then intricately tied herself up in a hog-tied position where she ultimately passed away.
Man, did a 180 flip-flop there, you know?
Yeah. And exactly one year after Cindy was reported missing, on May 25, 1990, the inquest was concluded.
The jury could not agree as to whether Cindy's death was attributed to a suicide, a homicide, or if it was accidental.
Because of this, the court ruled that Cindy had died of an unknown event, and the whole case was finally closed.
Wow. Geez.
No answer.
It's, yeah.
Up for decision.
It's just, yeah.
No answer.
Yeah, we're left with a hell of a lot of questions.
Yeah, we're just left with a hell of a lot of questions.
Yeah. Way more questions than even at the start, man.
It's just, uh...
I mean, even they, the professionals, they couldn't figure it out.
Of the RCMP's conclusion, Cindy's father would say, There is no way that she could have been able, after ingesting that amount of drugs, to tie herself up.
There was absolutely nothing at the crime scene to indicate that she had used any form of syringe, or she had used any drinking device, or anything of that nature.
Which is true.
A syringe was not found anywhere around Cindy's body.
Well, and her body had been moved.
So you had the, uh, you know, the lividity.
She's on one side of the ground, found, and then the lividity is on the other side of her body.
So yeah, definitely kind of a head-scratcher.
And what else doesn't make any sense is that her body was found in a heavily trafficked area.
Not only was there a walking path within feet of her body, there was a very busy road.
And to add to that, the police said that her body was there in that spot since she basically went missing.
Later at the inquest, an expert would testify.
That her body had been there since at least June 2nd.
If that was the correct date, then there was still another week that's unaccounted for of where she would have been.
They said her body was decomposing, which, yeah, after two weeks, your body is going to be rotting.
The issue with that is that nobody saw or smelled Cindy's decomposing body.
And for anyone familiar with the smell of a decomposing body, it's unmistakable.
It isn't the same as the smell.
Of an animal carcass.
Just ask anyone.
Yeah, anyone.
Send us your emails and let us know, what does a dead body smell like?
I'm just kidding.
Munging anybody?
Yeah, munging.
No, don't send us that email.
But yeah, I mean, that is, so she's gone for two weeks.
Nobody's seen her.
She's by this busy road.
Somebody had her body, man.
I'm starting to think somebody had her body and then brought it there and left her there.
Seems like.
I don't know.
Then the issue with the amount of drugs in her system, I mean, a lethal dose of morphine on top of a lethal dose of diazepam and florazepam, and then tying yourself up in the fashion that she did?
I mean, it makes no sense.
Unless she practiced the whole scenario without the drugs until she could master the knot tying, you know, just to play devil's advocate a little bit.
It's just a thought, you know.
Maybe she hired Chris Chisnell to teach her how to tie these knots really fast.
Yeah, maybe.
Chris was like, well, she started out not being able to, but by the end, yeah, she could totally do it.
Hand of God, she's a whiz with those things.
Oh, wait, I probably shouldn't have said that.
Right, which side am I on?
How much money are you giving me?
And another thing that people look past, if it's true, and I already mentioned it, is that one of the examiners said that her hands were tied so tightly together that one of her fingernails gouged down to the bone of another finger.
To me, if that's true, that would indicate that she was putting up a struggle.
Because if you were to do this to yourself, I doubt you'd have the presence of mind to be like, Oh, better use my fingernail to scratch down to the bone of my arm.
She did write that note in the psych ward that said once she got out of there, she was going to carry out her plan.
And she told her dad she was withholding information.
She knew who the person was.
She also told her family and the police and her psychiatrist.
That she believed it was her ex-husband Roy that was behind it all.
Plus the knife through her hand.
I've seen the pictures of the kitchen where Ozzy found her.
I mean, that's no joke.
There was a bunch of blood in a puddle.
It was a lot of blood.
Yeah, those are things that just take some kind of lunacy to, if you're going to fake it, to fake.
You basically have to have someone doing it for you.
I mean, yes, people have the resolve to do things under extreme circumstance, but just being in a, I don't know.
I don't know, just the idea of driving a knife through your own hand and then just...
And just laying there for a while.
And just laying there.
Until someone finds you.
It's crazy.
Yeah, because you don't know.
When the fire started in her house, the police didn't find any sign that someone entered or left through a window based on the dust and ash not being disturbed.
Right? Assuming that it was her starting them.
But is it not possible for someone to start a fire and exit a residence before dust and ash accumulate on a windowsill?
And why couldn't someone walk out of a door and lock it behind them?
Especially here, since everyone had a key.
Yeah, true, true.
And remember old Patrick McBride, the cop that moved in and who she had a brief romantic relationship with right after separated with Roy like days after?
Well, when he moved out, he kept the key.
Roy had keys and other tenants that lived in the house had keys, you know, people who rented the basement.
So all of those are potential breaches Also those fires.
I mean they were described as being small scraps of newspaper being burned But I mean that wasn't really the case in all of them because I looked at some of the photographs and at least the one in the basement Was very large it caused extensive damage
Sure, but man, it's extremely suspicious that nothing ever happened when the police did their many surveillances.
Everything just stopped until they were done doing their surveillance, and then boom, the moment they were finished, shit would pick back up again.
Which makes one think that whoever was doing this to Cindy, if it's true at all, was someone who was on the inside.
That is, someone who knew what the police were doing, when they were doing it, and presumably how many officers were posted, who was posted where.
It would have to be, right?
If that was the case, then yes.
There'd be no other way for this to be successful for as long as it went on if she wasn't doing this herself.
They had to be on the inside, some kind of police information.
Otherwise, it just would have been impossible.
The timing would have been impossible.
Plus, they would have had to have not been in any kind of rush, right?
Yeah. Clearly, this isn't a rush job.
It's taken years, like the better part of a decade.
to carry out all of this, and for what?
What about the neighbors and Ozzy seeing a strange man in the street after some of these attacks who would just run away after being spiked?
I mean, could have been anyone.
Could have been a nosy neighbor.
You got people coming in and out of this house at odd hours in the morning, so you're standing there like, what the fuck is going on here, man?
There's always people coming out of here.
You know, just maybe your average drifter.
Or maybe it was, uh, you know, some...
Teenager practicing his Yobai skills.
Oh, bringing it back to the Yobai.
Nice. Yeah, Yobai, for anyone who hasn't listened to episode 16, Masubo Toi and the Tsuyama Massacre, Yobai was an old Japanese custom where males would sneak through girls' windows at night to find a mate.
Yep, it was perfectly acceptable and actually expected, but don't do it these days.
It will not turn out well.
But definitely go listen to that episode if you want to learn more about Yobai.
And what about Roy hanging out behind the house in the alley, you know, being found by Pat after he moved in and Roy saying he was just there to keep, you know, a helpful watch on Cindy's safety?
Is that not suspect?
I can't help but feel like everything about Roy is a little bit suspect.
I just don't believe him being a good guy at all, honestly.
Doesn't seem like it.
And the multiple co-workers of hers taking calls from men who were looking for Cindy, who wouldn't identify themselves, or just wouldn't say anything and then just hang up?
I mean, some of it's pretty suspicious.
And what about the time she was found about six miles from her house, half naked, wearing men's work boots and one glove, you know, bruises and cuts on her body with a black eye, delirious, trying to get into a neighbor's house with a nylon stocking tied around her throat?
Yeah, it's, I mean, you know.
You look at all these things, and you're either like, man, this poor woman, or you're like, this crazy woman, or both poor women, crazy women.
I don't know.
It's insane.
Yeah, the whole thing is just insane.
And the craziest twist to it all, in my opinion, is the link from her ex-husband psychiatrist to Dr. James Tyhurst, who was studying the effects that, as he called it, crisis has on the human mind.
And what is meant by crisis could be a multitude of things, but my best surmising tells me that it's a lot of psychological torture.
And then Dr. Ewan Cameron, who was huge in MKUltra, and Gabriola Island, and Thornby Island, where Cindy said she saw batshit go down, and then two weeks later, separated from Roy, and then all of this psychological and physical torture on Cindy started happening,
and then Dr. James Tyhurst, eventually being found guilty of sexually abusing his patients, But his crimes extended much further than that.
Ooh. These connections, man.
Yeah, these...
Cindy was just...
I feel like she just never had a chance.
Like an insect just caught in a spider's web.
She's just caught...
Yeah, there's just nothing...
Like, from that moment on, from when she met Roy, I feel like her life was just out of her hands.
I think so.
From that point on.
And honestly, we're gonna have to dig into that Gabriola Island thing because there's something there.
Oh, yeah.
Something spooky and not...
Right. But what about the whole alleged break in where Ozzy Caban found Cindy's dog all beat up and scared shitless in the basement?
I don't think Cindy would have done that to her dog.
Maybe. Maybe.
I mean, at this point, nothing's impossible, but she loved the dog.
I mean...
She'd take it for walks.
That's... It's just hard to believe.
Or what about the off-brand cigarette butt left on the windowsill that was not a kind that Cindy smoked?
You know, for how many people she just welcomed into her house and had staying there at any given time, I mean, it could have been anyone's cigarette.
True. And everybody smoked back then, too.
That's true.
What about her mother, Tilly, being at the house when someone rang the doorbell and cracked a window?
Yeah, I mean, there's a number of things that would have been difficult for Cindy to do herself.
I feel like I've seen that pattern.
Over the course of talking about this case, maybe her mom did, you know, experience that with her.
Or what about the spray paint that circled her body, where her body was found, and the fact that there was no syringe found in the area?
Oh yeah, no, I definitely think somebody else was part of that.
I don't think that was her at all.
This case is just so full of odd circumstances, it's hard to determine if the RCMP slacked in the seven years of Cindy's alleged harassment, or if they legitimately did everything they could.
They did rack up that 1.5 million spent in pursuing the investigation, and back then, that was a lot.
Yeah, but how much of that was spent on pizza and other takeout?
That's true.
Probably about half.
Plus, where's the receipt of that 1.5 million?
Yeah, I want to see it.
Well, this is a really strange case, regardless of how you look at it.
I mean, if Cindy James did...
Do this to herself?
That alone is an impressive feat.
Oh yeah, seven years, she would have kept up those charades for seven years, and then ultimately, if it was to play out as a suicide, Cindy would have had to practice tying herself up quickly, leaving no room for error, and on the day of her death, she would have had to spray paint an oblong circle where she would have lied herself down after tying herself up after,
all after, ingesting a fatal mixture of opiates and benzodiazepines and muscle relaxers.
We're talking beyond fatal dosage amounts here, as in the amount of the drugs that she had in her body would have affected her within mere minutes, at least moments probably, certainly within the three-minute window that the investigators gave her to carry all of that out.
Especially, especially if she injected the morphine.
But where was the fucking syringe, man?
Where was it?
Nowhere to be found.
And then she would have scratched her finger with an opposite fingernail down to the bone while dying from a massive drug overdose, making sure she stayed within the spray-painted circle.
And then, why was liver mortis on the wrong side of her body, as if she was killed somewhere else and placed where she was found?
I don't know, man.
That to me is the biggest one.
The fact that nobody would have found her body or smelled her body in the two weeks, which they, you know.
Think that from the level of decomposition, she was dead for at least two weeks.
Yeah. That if she had been laying out there the whole time, nobody saw her, nobody smelled her, and the liver mortis was just, like, pointed that she was on a different side, so somebody moved her body after she was dead.
It's just, for us, looking at this from the outside, it's like, how did the police not chalk this up to a murder?
How did they not chalk this up to some sort of homicide?
I mean, it just sucks because they didn't have fingerprints.
They didn't have any evidence.
Yeah, there was no one for them.
So if it's a murder, who was it?
I guess they didn't chalk it up to a murder.
I guess it was unknown.
It was unknown.
Unknown cause or whatever.
They didn't say it was, but they didn't say it wasn't.
They just said, unknown event.
Yeah, man.
But I think it was a murder for sure.
I think so.
I mean, the person who killed her...
And moved her body would have had to have knowledge of the prior attacks because she had the nylon around her neck.
She was hog-tied again.
You know?
So, like, nothing was out of place from this multi-year stretch of torturous things that have happened to her.
And there was a nylon stocking wrapped around her neck every time she was found.
Exactly. Yeah, in the garage that first time.
I wonder if she kept them all.
Like, you would think you'd at least get to the cops.
I mean, my thought...
Okay, so do they ever go into where the policy paid out?
Her life insurance policy?
I'm assuming it was life insurance.
Yeah, she had life insurance with the salesman that she had living with her downstairs.
Yeah, so who was the beneficiary, you know?
That's a good question.
That's a good question.
I don't think that she would put Roy.
Yeah, I feel like we should look for that and maybe give a little update next time.
Yeah, we should look into that.
Let's see who stood to directly benefit from her.
Life insurance policy.
Because the thing is, a policy doesn't pay out over a suicide.
So it would have to be a murder or some other circumstance that was unforeseen in order for that policy to pay out.
So who was the beneficiary?
Who would have been interested in that money?
Why did she take the policy out?
This is my personal opinion.
My personal opinion is that she was so mentally distraught I mean, even at the beginning.
And then witnessed something that she shouldn't have witnessed.
That in the end, she wanted to just kill herself and maybe took all those pills and everything.
And then after she died, the person was like, oh.
Well, we're just gonna make it look like we killed you so that we can inspire fear in the hearts of anybody that's trying to look into this case.
You know, this is gonna happen to you!
You know?
I don't know.
It's a doozer.
All we have are theories to work with.
Exactly. It's pretty crazy, man.
Well, that will finish up the two-parter on Cindy James.
This has been a fascinating case to us for quite some time, and I'm happy that Dramatic Bridge requested that we cover it, and I hope that Dramatic Bridge will reach out again and suggest another.
Because we enjoy pleasing our listeners and our fans more than pleasing ourselves.
Well, speak for yourself there, buddy.
Thank you, Dramatic Bridge, for your suggestion.
And anybody else, you have something you want us to cover, something you want us to deep dive into, you know?
Yeah, just shoot it out there.
We'll check it out.
We'll make something happen.
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Don't forget to email us.
Tell us your favorite murder case or paranormal story, or any random crazy story you have.
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Let us know.
We want to get the fans involved.
That is why we are implementing a special listener email segment.
Those are always fun, man.
Always fun.
Always fun, indeed.
Love them.
Yeah. And that is why we have this email from a listener by the name of Blarmy Bob Poppers.
I tell you, man, these names are wonderful.
The greatest of names, bro.
Hello, mates.
Happy to write in to say your show is epic.
A mate told me to check you guys out.
Honestly, I wasn't expecting to be entertained at all.
Wow. Thank you.
And at first...
Fair? Fair?
Yeah, right.
And at first, I wasn't.
That's perfect.
Oh, wow.
But as things go...
That's some good feedback.
But as things go, I gave you a fighting chance, and you've won my heart over.
So consider yourselves lucky.
I just want to say, keep up the hard work, and I look forward to some of those stickers.
Wow. Thanks so much for that.
I don't know how to take that.
I know.
The jury's out on how I feel about that.
But you know what?
We welcome all forms of communication with us.
That we do.
Thank you, Blarmy Bob Poppers.
The good, the bad, the ugly.
That means a lot to us.
We'll get those stickers sent to you right away, man.
Yeah, right on, buddy.
Thanks for the email and being a subscriber.
Thank you.
And I think we can do one more here.
So this comes to us from Barbara F. Oh, hello, Barbara F. Thanks for writing in.
Barbara F says...
You guys are funny AF.
I love how you do the show with all the little bits and everything.
It's actually done really well.
You guys should do an episode on the North Hollywood shootout soon.
That story is fascinating, and I just can't believe how no bystanders were killed.
It's remarkable.
Anyway, you guys are doing awesome.
Loving it.
And I'm being gentle.
Take care.
Ah, gentle, yes, yeah.
Damn. Be gentle.
Damn, man.
I mean...
At least somebody thinks we're funny because half the time I'm like, fuck, I just said something so stupid.
What are we doing here?
Yeah, what are we doing, man?
I keep my day job.
At least she likes it.
She likes it.
Yeah, well, she knows what she's talking about.
Thank you, Barbara F. And we will put the North Hollywood shootout on the list of upcoming shows.
Thank you for that suggestion.
Yeah, fuck.
Those were some gnarly moments, dude.
Those two guys just busting in the bank and shooting at everything in full body armor just gives me goosebumps, man.
Crazy. That's crazy-ass footage, dude.
The helicopter overview following down the streets as they're in the shootout with the cops.
Oh, it's so insane, man.
I look forward to covering that one.
Remember, ladies and gentlemen, the best way to spread the word about the Paranautica podcast is by word of mouth.
Just go out there into the mad, mad world.
Tell everyone you pass on the street to listen to the show as you give them a crisp high five.
All right, everyone.
Take care of yourselves and one another.
Be kind and rewind.
Oh, wow.
throwing it back.
Yeah, remember that?
Hell yeah I do.
You know there's nothing like a sound of slipping in a good old VHS man sitting around the family TV. Everyone's just like, "Alright, we're gonna watch Snow White."
