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June 10, 2025 - Project Camelot
50:48
HARRY CHALLENGER AA21
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Right, this is understanding encounters.
So I'm from the old-school ufology background.
So this is awake and aware.
So I'm from, go back all the way to a magazine called Flying Saucer Review that started in 1955, which took some of the old Flying Saucer Club people on from about 1950.
So all the originals came to this.
So I'm following a tradition.
Which is understanding contact with higher intelligences.
So we are 300 years post-Isaac Newton.
We have 300 years of reason.
When we look at beings that might have 10,000 years of reason, we are starting to...
But we are looking at how do we deal with super-intelligent beings?
They're observing us.
How do we observe them ourselves?
How do we interact with them?
These are questions that obviously the authorities are very interested in, and you guys are very aware of that.
So what I'm looking at is just giving you two little lectures.
One is on understanding encounters, and the other one is about UFOs and how they operate and how they come in and out.
So I started in 1996, and if I just advance, that set of drawings is about a week old.
So that's a week old contact.
That's a 6 '6 woman who was in a house.
On a south city on the south coast, and she stood on the threshold of someone's doorway, looking in.
So they were standing next to the bedroom.
The person was awake, and she was in and out, but she never crossed the threshold, which I think is quite symbolic.
She stood on the edge.
Six foot six tall woman.
She has some sort of face paint, which is, I think, a bit archaic, which is interesting, isn't it?
It's like a spirit being, but it really is an alien.
A woman that's characterized by height and blonde hair, which is due to a genetic modification.
If you're looking at a being that's blonde, it's been genetically modified for so many generations.
It's pretty much albino by the time it comes in.
That's what my view is.
So this is why these things look like they do.
There was another being that was seen about three days before in the street.
And it was the same type of being very tall, but it actually was able to create a distortion around its face, so you couldn't see it, see its face.
So these are like a week old.
That's all.
So if I move forward.
So I joined a UFO group in London, which was the old London UFO studies, I met other paranormal investigators.
I began to learn about the art and discipline of encounter reports.
There were younger researchers like myself, but also the originals.
These were the people who started in the 50s.
There was a few of them left alive, and I was lucky to meet them.
So that there, that neon being, was the first thing I saw.
That's not the picture I took.
That appeared 25 years later, or 24 years later, but I saw exactly that type of being, a neon blue being.
I began accompanying researchers to interview the public about their encounters.
So this is me in London, getting into a car, driving to people I've never met, and asking them, what did you see?
What was it like?
Filling in a little form.
So this is what old-school ufology was about, and it's about finding out about something called a case history.
A case history is when you gather all the information about the case, and you have it there to hand.
Now, I realised I had skills in history-taking because I work in healthcare, and it gave me an advantage because I worked in Brent, for example, where there was just about 30 different nationalities where I was, and people expressed themselves very differently.
So when I would randomly appear at someone's house, you usually have to come as twos, you never go on your own, you get someone's very jumbled-up sort of experience.
They're not sure what they've seen, they're a bit unsure, they're a bit frightened.
And this is what about data gathering.
So if you're awake and aware, I don't want to rub it in, but if you're awake and aware, you've got to gather real data, real information, not rumours, not second-hand stories, real information.
So we were gathering case reports as a research group to find out what ordinary people encountered and how they reacted to the change it brought with it.
I refer to these as case histories.
That's the best way to get a broad, big cross-section of what's happening.
And we were in, like I say, London.
We were in East London mainly, but we'd travel anywhere, North London, anywhere.
Those pictures there are from the 1960s in Brazil.
Now, that was a chap called Julio Brandt Alexio, who was a psychologist, and he recorded over 300 cases of humanoid contact.
Those pictures now are history.
When he took them, those were ordinary people, ordinary Brazilians, most of them probably subliterate, people who lived probably in remote places.
And I'm pretty sure that's Horvio himself, if I can sort of highlight him there, doing an inquiry.
He's long dead now.
I'm in contact with his son, or have been.
And he still has those 300 files.
So that's 300 detailed records of what went on.
Let's see if I can get a bit further.
So the most important factor is to capture the record of the encounter in their own words.
This is the key term.
You do not put words into their mouth.
You do not try and make it sound like where you want it.
And you have to write it up as closely to their original form as possible.
So I normally record it and I transcribe.
I don't actually change anything.
That means if it was a difficult subject matter, which it will be.
So say there's a case from Watford.
If you want a case from Watford from about 1994.
Two guys in Watford Cemetery, the central cemetery, picked up by a craft which they thought was a police helicopter.
They're on board and there's a beautiful blonde woman there and his friend is making out with her and it's getting quite advanced.
She turns and turns into a green lizard, licking its lips.
He almost dies from fright.
He's got PTSD to this day.
Yeah, I mean, that's uncomfortable.
He said, people think I'm mad.
He was like the classic Hollywood sort of guy.
People think I'm mad, but both of them remember it.
So that's the thing.
Two people with a hallucination, it's still not very good.
So that was Watford Central Cemetery, probably 1994, Christmas time.
And that's how close it is.
So that was a lizard.
It was something that I've researched, I've looked into.
There's some pretty horrible stuff that comes through.
I won't, because I'm a family audience, I don't want to say too much about it.
But there's basically sadistic qualities to these creatures.
They're not friendly always.
They can be, but they're not always.
So if you don't, you know, people don't want to hear that, then they're not researchers.
They have to take what the person tells them and go with it.
That's the secret to being a contact researcher.
So you write from a detached position, no matter what, the account stands without alteration or censorship.
That's the truth.
You know, we're looking for the truth.
I remember hearing years ago a guy being interviewed in a crop circle, and he said, I'm concerned with the truth, and I haven't heard that in years.
The truth.
The photo's opposite, Helvio branch, Alexio, raw information that now it stands alone.
So that was a book that I had written in Portuguese, and it's ten cases.
And in one of those cases, again, there's things that are difficult.
You know, they're difficult.
So if we want to be really aware of what we're doing, awake and aware, we need to know what's really happening.
So this is Flying Saucer Review.
That's the magazine I'm involved with.
It started in 55. There's been a little bit of a hiatus because of COVID, but it will be back.
FSR was the first to represent the UFO in humanoid cases.
We call humanoid, human-like aliens.
It gave us the first international comparisons.
This is the first international paranormal research.
So people were writing in from Brazil, from all over Latin America, from North Africa.
They were writing from everywhere in the world.
And that would mean we're compiling a human database of experience.
That's the kind of thing that paranormal researchers should be doing.
and also conspiracy researchers.
He's done an expert work on the alien autopsy and his data is so accurate you can read the entire evolution of that event.
That's what real research is.
We've got to learn it's a discipline.
It's not like we go and chat in the pub and some guy heard that some other guy said this and some other guy.
We've got to go to primary sources.
We talk to original people.
We cross-match data.
That's what it's about.
I'm not trying to lecture you, but that's it.
It gave us the first international comparisons, comparative information to cross-match cases.
So that's an interesting case there.
I mean, it's just a cover one.
That guy was changing attire.
And again, blonde beings came and they took him.
And he was just changing attire at the side of a road.
That's probably an Argentinian case, as far as I remember.
These are all about interaction.
So where am I going with this conversation that I'm having with you?
Interaction.
What does a being do when it walks up to you?
Most of you haven't really been informed.
You've been shown sci-fi.
You've been shown, maybe, little tidbits on these paranormal shows.
Well, when a being comes up to you, you've got to remember, and this is the thing that a guy called Glenn Stackling said, this thing can probably travel trans-dimensionally and travel across vast distances.
The capability to be able to do that These things are way, way, way deeper and more alive than us.
They have so much more awareness than us.
So when we think about them, we have there some people thinking about it there.
These are the earlier editors.
So my mentor is this guy, Gordon Crichton, MI6 officer for 40 years, old gentleman, publisher, the guy who published George Adamski's first book, Waveney Girvin.
A guy here called Brinsley the Poor Trench.
she was a posh aristocratic guy who got into UFOs and a guy there she's a We had these five old men that were great editors.
And that was a Frenchman there who remains a legend in UFO writing.
So again, I have an archive library.
I have access to archives, original thinking, original letters from 50, 60 years ago.
And it's the way we learn about these things.
This is how powerful FSR was at the time.
That's J. Allen Hynek.
He was on the board of Flying Saucer Review.
That's Jacques Vallée.
This was the Grenada attempt to get UFOs included in the UN.
Now, I'm not sure how many of you know this, but in the last two years, there was an attempt called the Five Continents Movement, which I was aware of.
I didn't get involved, but I was very interested in.
And China and Russia, of all people, were trying to launch a UNESCO of applications to create a UN department of UFOs.
China's guy they put in charge blew the money.
So it was human factors that killed it.
He just spent everything.
The Chinese government didn't see any result for their money.
But this UN point is the point of respectability.
So there you go.
So those two guys, they had links to FSR.
And there they are making government policy at that time.
J. Allen Hynek was the guy who consulted on Close Encounters of the Third Kind, if you know much about that sort of stuff.
And this is when the UFO Academy came in about 2009.
I met Katrine.
And it is what I call a prestige venue.
I love it for what it is.
And we wanted the free and open exchange of ideas on UFOs to bring reason to the study of alien intelligence and paranormal.
There's a word, logos, which is an old Greek word, which means, I think, knowledge and reason, as far as I know.
Someone will probably correct me.
That's what the UFO Academy is.
It's dedicated to reason.
So there we are.
And the principle is Plato's Academy.
He taught at 387 BC, so it's a long time ago.
Athena, the goddess of wisdom, they knew an answer comes to nothing if it hasn't come by a process of one's own thinking.
So passive knowledge, sitting watching a TV show and just getting it passively, that's not what happens.
You have to give birth to knowledge, something called meiotics, which is the process of giving birth to your own knowledge.
You cannot have knowledge put in your head.
Meiotics is used in the friendship case, amachizia.
This is a case that starts in about 1958 in Italy, about 300 people involved with these tall beings again.
Amachizia, they specifically mention meiotics.
It comes up in a book by a famous Italian ufologist, and I've forgotten his name, but it was very important, that case.
It was the first time that groups of people worked together, and this is the key point, really, as I move along.
It was international cooperation.
That's what brought it together.
So people working together create a different state of mind.
So the question is the revealed identity of the alien is the why in all things we do not know.
It's not just why is an alien an alien or why don't we understand it.
It's all things we don't know is a process of realization that's internal.
That's what I believe.
So it's actually, we have to actively think our way through this.
We can't just be given it.
So many people on the internet always want to be given things.
They want the information, but they don't want to do the process.
So it's a process of realisation that the ideas in our society are plain wrong.
So the idea that other intelligences aren't visiting, that's plain wrong.
We have a natural superiority in our ability to consider that real alien intelligences are here.
They are not declaring themselves.
They are not outing themselves.
But I can guarantee you that you will have the wrong thinking from the main orthodox thinkers.
They cannot come to terms with this.
And it's to do with their processing.
They can't process it.
Now, there's a term by a guy called William Reich, who was a strange character who worked with energy back in the 1950s.
And he had a lovely term for this called armoring of the eye.
It meant your eye is armored.
You will not see what you do not want to see.
And he said that back in the 50s.
So our culture is wrong on the alien question, and in turn in what it is to be human.
Because we're wrong about aliens, we're wrong about being human.
If we can't put ourselves in context with these other intelligences, then we're wrong about ourselves.
That's my opinion.
You can correct me if I'm wrong.
The riddle is what we are and what it is that we are a part of.
Because if there is this ecosystem of other types of being, then we haven't put ourselves in it.
We're not in context with it.
We don't even know what we are.
That's my view.
You can correct me if you think I'm wrong.
All our current answers are modern assumptions, relative truths of our age.
We need to unlock our relationship with superior intelligences by asking far deeper questions beyond the popular ideas of the age.
Now, this is very blurry.
That's a being looking with its eyes, and they're very humane.
They're very gentle, sort of almost feminine.
And I pursue the contact information and contact itself.
I'm interested in the heart and personality of non-human alien intelligence because I advocate that the alien identity is not cold and clinical, which we're told in sci-fi.
You know, you watch Star Trek, all the beings are all sort of very mathematical and logical.
It's quite different.
I think they are thought.
It's like if you encounter an entity, you're encountering an iCloud.
It's basically a cloud of thought.
Your mind at the moment is taught to reason by just thinking in linear fashion.
If you meet a being that's super psychic, it's in your head.
So when you meet an entity, people who have met an entity, anyone put their hands up who's met an entity?
So at least, it's a good ten of you at least, or maybe nearly ten.
That's what you notice.
They sort of merge into your mind.
You don't have a barrier like you do.
If I talk to any of you today, you won't know what I'm thinking.
I won't know what you're thinking.
But with a being, they'll be in you.
It's that strange.
So the heart of contact, we're looking at a superior intelligence that's studying us.
We're being studied, not the other way around.
If we create behaviour changes that trigger behaviour changes in them, then this becomes a dialogue.
This is the key point, and this is an old Stephen Greer point.
If one person starts waving like that when they see a UFO, and then the UFO flashes a light, that's the beginning of a conversation.
So rather than just looking in wonder, this is what I went for, which was...
And it's because we dared to do it.
we dared to actually take this action.
Most people will not consider or contemplate So if a being's in your room, and the first thing you do is come up to it and do that, that's rare.
And if it does it back and touches you, that's a conversation.
So this is something peculiar to me, but I'm bringing it up.
I believe it's internationalism and new ideas that's behind this.
Why are these beings coming here?
So that's the craft that was over my house in Sarat in probably sports day at my...
That actually was a sphere that came back and came back and visited the house straight away afterwards.
I'd taken over Flying Saucer review in 2004 and I had three really close-up UFO sightings so they were reacting.
Then after I did UFO Academy, I'm not sure if Katrine was aware, I had a craft the day after each time for the first three UFO academies would come.
They're obviously very interested in what the principles are.
Completely illogical.
They will react.
So why are these objects presenting in this way?
It's because the principles of Flying Source Review and UFO Academy were highly significant.
They're internationalist.
They're dialogue.
They're very Greek.
They're trying to get to ideas.
So they react to focus and reason.
Internationalism, the classic ideas of Logos.
This was the first influence I had.
I was 10 years old.
Someone handed me a book, my neighbour, and it was just a picture of a guy dressed as an alien.
And it was We Are Not The First.
It was about the ancient aliens hypothesis.
This book was written probably in 1968, something roughly like that.
It tells us that we have this lineage of some kind.
There is something in our past that matches this.
And the idea of a sudden explosion of civilisation in the Middle East and a sudden explosion in Mesoamerica.
People start building pyramids and doing astronomy and suddenly they're running complex societies.
We have to guess.
Are we looking at a sudden human realisation, or are we looking at influence?
So my view is it's influence, and these are very, very exclusive influence.
They didn't just walk down among everybody, but I think the priesthoods knew about these things, particularly the ancient Assyrians and sort of Babylonian times.
There seems to be a sudden massive explosion in, like, mathematics and abstract kind of geometry, and, you know, these people suddenly become enlightened.
Is that really, you know, possibly what could be happening?
I think it is.
And we're afraid of the idea of occupants.
We're afraid of these.
That's what I believe culturally.
Not you guys here, but culturally, we don't want to know that there's something else that has mastery, that's far more advanced than us.
It unnerves us.
I think there's a group collective psychology.
So this is a very basic case that I investigate.
The tiny island off Brittany called Ile de Groix, no one ever heard of it.
An American lady who we call Johnny Turquoise, even though she was a woman, she sees this figure walk out of the sea.
He's a shadow.
And he starts flying around at about 50 miles an hour up and down the beach.
Now this has happened in Spain, it's happened in Latin America, where they're obviously not using their feet.
They're gliding up and down.
Her and her boyfriend watch this person and realise they're supernatural.
They get a lot of fear out of it.
And he comes towards them.
And they run for it.
A faceless ghost from somewhere or other.
So that's the most typical humanoid encounter.
You don't really get to see what this thing is.
It looks shadowy.
It's like a shadow being.
Or it's a being that you see scoop past you.
And you're not sure what you've seen.
So this is the normal stuff.
He's a classic humanoid.
no evidence really most of the These are called humanoid reports.
There's probably about, I think there's a guy called Albert Rosales, who resides in Miami, and he's got about 18,000 cases that he's pulled.
So, you know, they're the recorded cases.
There's far more than that.
And I normally, I did canvas my clients, which might be a bit ethical in working healthcare, and I pick up loads of humanoid cases.
Not loads, loads, but a lot.
So I think people run into things a lot more, but they don't talk about it.
The answer to the alien question, these beings, how are we going to get to know them?
If we just get videos of them or photographs of them, it's still not going to really touch what they are.
That's what my opinion is.
So we have an eternal hunger for this proof of evidence.
We've got an eternal hunger.
We want that one picture that's really going to prove it and break the whole of ufology open.
That's not really what we're about.
We're getting controlled exposure.
These things are very specific.
Issues where, and I've known a number of times, where they come and take the footage off people.
So someone will film them in a way that is too good, on board a craft or whatever, and they'll come and take it.
They'll just confiscate it, sometimes even coming into the house on one occasion and taking it.
So they have the control over this.
They're the ones behind the embargo, in my opinion.
It's not our authorities.
They don't intend us to be fully aware, in my opinion.
You can take it as you see it.
So do we find the meaning of contact in other ways?
Now this is something that was said to me.
The key to your contact is your destination.
That's the A3M.
And there's a park bench there on a certain place where you sit.
And I was told by people who had contact.
And you talk.
You sit there.
It's very matrix.
And you talk.
And I had an encounter with a ship there.
And there was a key right next to me.
Just left a house key on the side of the bench.
And the UFO actually travelled across that road sign and down and actually landed over there.
So it crossed the road sign and there's a key next to me.
The key to your contact is your destination.
You cannot just induce alien contact.
You have to have a destination that's in keeping with what they intend.
That's just something that I picked up.
There's the key.
We kept it.
If there are dimension portals, then there may be matrix-like data grid.
This is what I'm looking at, is information fields.
I mean, we can play with as many ideas of particles and subatomic particles and quantum as you like, but it's all information.
And somehow, these things are navigating in our minds and navigating in real time, and the information itself, and we've had someone stand up here and talk about it once, that they felt it was like a crystal grid.
So that's when we start saying the real questions.
These beings are coming through from somewhere and they are almost like able to instantaneously appear.
They don't just knock on your door, they instantaneously appear.
I've seen them come out of spheres, which is the ones I used to see, and it would be like a little ball of light and it unfolds and it's a full-size human.
So that human, the data to create that human was a ball of light.
And then you create a human out of it.
So that's my view on it.
So fully in our space or emerging, these crafts are super sensory.
They exist in the mind map of the observer.
So the thing about people who see UFOs is their minds work differently.
So when you start talking to a UFO witness, they're completely differently wired to people who are normal.
But you can change a normal person into one of those people with a couple of sightings.
So this is the trickster, and you can't really see that.
It didn't come out too well, but he's basically got his hands up like that.
It's a very strange thing.
So this is John Keel and the law of frustration, that when we try and make something of this, it automatically frustrates us.
And that was the John Keel 1960s sort of approach.
So it's a constantly changing manifestation that is designed to frustrate all those who study it.
So is that the intelligent source?
What's its nature?
So is there a cosmic order?
That's a beautiful set of shits.
I've deliberately not thrown them in today, because normally it just becomes an ooh-and-ah festival, and it's not really worth it.
But that UFO causes an eclipse, which I think is beautiful.
It's coming out of a particular place, and it rises up.
And it's actually a three-storey UFO.
I saw it about six weeks ago, and I got sunburned.
And I was with a guy who was wearing suntan lotion.
He didn't get burnt, so it's definitely ultraviolet.
And two other guys that we all got burnt.
And the sunburn's very peculiar.
It feels like someone's sticking a needle into your skin.
It's not like normal burn.
It just feels like someone's sticking a needle.
So it's probably a deeper burn.
And I've got like forehead problems.
Everyone involved in the case I'm in, we've all got burnt foreheads.
So we're all kind of very rashy.
Now this is a case that where I wanted to go if I'd had been able to create more of this talk.
This is a case from Reading.
Again, about 1994.
And two guys go to a lake because they have this urge to go to the lake.
And this woman is running on the water.
And this is just somebody I used to model for it.
And she walks up to them and she's surrounded by hexagons.
So her body is in a light field of hexagons.
And then they are sucked up into the craft.
Now that's interesting.
They finally get an explanation.
This is why I was interested in this case.
And again, it's just somebody's These are super sensitive beings.
So she talks about the nature of suffering, the nature of being a human, the nature of being mortal.
This is like real, you know, university level alien encounter.
And she says some of you are destined to suffer, some of you are destined to witness suffering, and some of you previously suffered and are witnessing suffering.
So there is a process.
And she actually showed horrors again on this projector screen.
And these different groups of people going to different destinies.
Now there was a guy called Cornelius there, and he was a doomed alcoholic.
He was one of the guys there, and he was dead within two years from alcoholism and various addictions.
The other guy survived, and he witnessed Cornelius dying.
He was there.
So it was very relevant to them that this is the human addiction thing that's still going all around the world.
And this being was talking about, what's the nature of us?
So who are we?
That's what she was talking about.
And then there's another case that I did in that sequence.
These are my very early cases, and it's from Washington State.
And a lady who goes to a restaurant diner, and two, again, blonde aliens are there, and they talk to her, and they say, you humans, the man says, you humans are just toys.
You're just toys.
I'm not interested in you that shows a little bit of it And he laughed.
You know, that's nice.
It's interesting.
They say, name a place.
They say, we can take you to North Star, which is our place we come from.
Now, that's a codename of some kind.
And weirdly, it is actually in Greenland.
There is a North Star.
In Greenland, where there was an underground ice installation in the 1950s where they were going to bury nuclear weapons under a one-mile glacier so they could nuke Russia quicker.
But weirdly, North Star, she has a son who's a delinquent, and the being says to her, your son is a thief.
He's a thief.
He was only about 17 at the time.
His name was Blaze.
It's a good name for a wayward son.
And he says, your son is a thief, isn't he?
But she said, I can't leave because I don't know if I'll ever see him again if you take me.
So she gets the opportunity to go with them.
And the blonde male says to the blonde female, you really want to take her, don't you?
You really like her.
So again, this is human stuff, isn't it?
You like somebody?
I find that really interesting.
So these are the kind of cases that I've spent many years looking at.
And they tell us about this.
And I describe it as code-breaking and intelligence work.
That's what it is.
So there's codes here.
This is coded behavior.
And they are testing you when they encounter you.
And one of the things that I believe is going on is they'll give you a storm of fearful images just to see how you react.
And if they see you're stable, they can work with you.
Because people invariably go mad when they encounter these things.
So I've dealt with a lot of people who've gone mad through encounters.
And this is where I'm going.
It's a very delicate area.
So obviously I'm aware of mental illness.
I've been around, like, we run a psychotherapy unit where I am.
So I know all about people who have delusions.
We're talking about encounters here, and we're talking about things which are not imaginary experiences.
But for me, this is the crux of it.
If you encounter a being that's, like, a thousand times more intelligent than you are, and it fills your head with information, which a Brazilian friend of mine had, It can burn you out and fry you.
There was a guy called Maciris, I think his name was.
I haven't got his name right.
He was an Argentine.
And he went mad.
And I had his original contact notes in from the, I think it was the early 70s.
And he was talking about things that he couldn't possibly, A lot of these people were in Latin America at the time.
And he was talking about alchemy and talking about electrical fields.
And he went mad.
He went completely mad.
After about three months.
But these were really good cases because people were investigating and finding out what happened afterwards.
So the majority of people who have alien encounters never tell anybody.
And then when you do tell you, most of them don't pursue it.
So I had an alien encounter and I then reached and touched them and said, I want to see you again.
I did not hide from it.
And I was very frightened.
I'd stopped working for six weeks.
I couldn't.
Mixed with people, I was frightened all the time.
Because you are.
Because you've suddenly seen spaceships, you've seen people talking to you, and you think, am I mad?
That's where you start from.
And then you start filming stuff, and you think, yeah, it's on the camera, which is a friend of mine called Russell Kellett, and he always says, my camera must be insane because it films them.
So we're dealing with something here.
I just wanted to give you as an awake and aware people this is where humans are going we're going into this race And what we bring in, which is you're the better people in my opinion, I'll give you a bit of praise.
you go in with like the higher side of yourself and you develop the higher side because these things can't experience the kind of gutter that we do.
Do you know what he said?
He said, I decided I was going to rip a bit off.
So I could sell it to the newspapers.
He did this.
And as he ran and thought that, the craft then took off again.
And he learned afterwards, why did I do that?
Because they were going to let me on anyway.
And he had tried to pull a bit off it.
So I love that story.
It's just so human, isn't it?
I'm going to pinch a bit of this flying saucer.
So I just think that I'm talking today, you know, I don't know Entmonivue because I was here 10 years ago and I was here for a bit.
But This is the old Renaissance pictures where the angel is holding a lily and it's handing it to you.
And that's knowledge, that lily.
It goes all the way back to ancient Egypt.
That's symbol.
And Johnny is here tomorrow.
Johnny Enoch, you must hear him.
He's all good on his symbology.
But handing a lily to somebody, you have to choose.
And they often show somebody, it's a Renaissance painting, someone choosing whether they're going to pick this lily up.
And I think that's the way it was for me.
I chose to pick the lily up.
And then I've got involved.
And surprisingly, it will knit itself together.
So if you choose, one of you will probably get an encounter in the next year or two.
Maybe two or three of you.
You can choose to pick that lily up and start to pursue them and start to talk to them.
It's your decision.
But for me, it was...
So we have to try and create a human bridge to them, and that's what I believe.
There's a bridge between their reality and their level of intelligence and ours.
And if we're going to go anywhere with this, it's going to be building a bridge where we actually just try and be in their presence.
And try and understand them.
But you think of the world the way it is, and there's people who've written about this, something called meta-law, which is the law that humans and these type of beings will have to write so we can coexist, so we don't slaughter each other.
I'll give an example of what colonialism did.
Captain Cook arrives in New Zealand.
Within ten minutes, he's shot a Maori, and they have a running battle that goes on for two or three months all the way through New Zealand.
And all it was was a Maori took a sword and ran around with a hat and a sword.
He took off an officer and he was shot dead.
That's how quickly it turns into something awful.
And my view is we've got to create the structures, which we are doing at the moment.
We're actually codifying law.
Again, Johnny's not here.
We've got a mutual friend who's a barrister and he's writing the law for contact, which is something called meta-law.
So we'll actually create an agreement with them.
But they are not rational like us.
They don't think like us.
You've got to remember, they've got to try and force their way onto our level.
So this is the kind of big ideas and thinking that I believe is necessary.
I mean, I'm not sure because I haven't really picked up on whether you're liking the talk or not.
But it's, you know, as a humanoid researcher, it's got to go somewhere.
I can't just fill a book with loads of cases and then keep publishing magazines for the next 50 years until I'm 100.
It's got to go somewhere.
So it's got to go.
But the problem is people will go mad.
When this comes, they're not going to cope with it because it's so powerful, a ripple through our society.
Because you're dealing with, you know, all the worst aspects of ourselves and the best aspects, and that's normally a bad combination.
So, any questions?
Maybe I'll put it to you, any questions?
Yeah, far away.
I'll start with you.
When you say day, like, it's a little more expensive.
Thanks, Matt.
It's coming from my perspective.
Yeah.
You have any account that it's kept on, or you don't know what it is you're doing.
So you say that, you know, whatever.
So when you say day, you say building, like, a huge bridge.
Yeah.
What are you doing?
But then you have no choice.
If you're going to share their environment as we advance, we're going to have to deal with them.
But I mean, I look at colonialism as the horror of it, which is if we don't get it right, we're the colonized.
Because something out there will, But if we can actually build with civilised cultures some sort of bond, we have a chance.
I mean, I think we're actually in a bit of danger, I would say.
But I'm not being negative.
It's just we're the danger, if you see what I mean.
We're terrifying if we get it let loose out there.
imagine us out there what we're going to do so I'll let that lady that yeah
But if one actually develops bodily consciousness, in other words, reading into yourself, listening to your organs, then you will naturally find a bridge for all of these different things in as much as we contain their DNA.
which came out of the way to escorting a call to the minutes, in which case it's not going That's probably a good idea and that's the contact training that you've just invented.
So that's exactly it.
Specifically about the vibration that you are at versus seeing these things.
For example, I think a lot of ghosts started back in the early '90s, which sent me down to spirituality.
And some of the encounters that you were mentioning just now sort of triggered me a little bit on, "Oh, is this a ghost-type thing?
Is this a multidimensional thing to talk about?" Can I actually talk a little bit to see your view of how God's spirituality fits?
I felt Christ consciousness, which is, like these are the terms that are thrown around, You don't have to have a belief to get that.
And I've had that.
I've had wind come out my forearms and my hands and my forehead.
So I've had, like, Holy Spirit experiences.
But all of these were entities.
They had technology, they had LEDs.
So I'd wake up at night and something would have blinking LEDs in my room.
I mean, that's why it's traumatic.
because something's in your room and it's got LEDs on.
You say that because you're vibrating at a certain frequency I was psychically trained very heavily for about five years through natural medicine.
and I was involved in a group that do something called applied kinesiology, but we did it rock solid, and it was very international, and I never normally talk about it, but that opened me up.
So I was basically, it took three years of that before it even started, but I believe that if you look at it, If you look at Billy Meyer, who a lot of people don't like, but he went and did Indian yoga as well.
It's interesting how many of these contactees, I think some of the Italian ones as well, I think they often took six months of prep to get to this state that they needed to be in.
So there was a guy who was at the head of the friendship case and he was out at night on the cliffs and at the ocean side trying to connect and meditate.
So that's where I'm standing on it.
You have to be trained, definitely.
This lady was absolutely right.
I mean, I'm much more psychic than I let on because people don't understand it, so I don't mention it.
But yeah, my entire energy field moves around and I'm not really able to control it half the time.
So you're spot on.
we'd have to actually be humans with almost like contact training is exactly the term because otherwise you're going to lose it.
Because imagine if...
It's coming at you, and there's literally thousands of pictures, information, geometry, maths, all these things, and you can't contemplate what the hell it is.
We had a Brazilian friend of mine who's gone back to Brazil now, and he was actually in London when an alien lady who was a seven-foot-tall hybrid was sitting at his kitchen table when he came down the stairs at four in the morning.
And she downloaded into him, and he was absolutely shaking and, you know, saying, stop, stop, stop.
And she just couldn't stop.
And she was called the lady with rainbow eyes, because she had beautiful rainbow eyes.
Again, I should have stuck it on my humanoid thing.
There's some very beautiful pictures.
And she was a very beautiful, sensual woman, but she fried his brain that night, and he was quite scared and terrified.
And she intended him.
To be loaded with information.
This is something that the higher dimensional, higher energy beings, I think they break us.
I get to find out about cases.
There was a guy in a place called Ravenshoe, Australia, and he was meeting entities in the mangroves somewhere, a real dense forest.
And I actually knew about this case.
It's amazing that I get to find out where it was going on.
No offense if he is hearing this, but I did hear he got put away because it destroyed him.
It was just too much.
So too many people are vulnerable.
Is there any more questions?
Why do you think it is that they often seem to approach people that are not capable of receiving the information?
I find that obvious.
so many cases when, as you said, they approach a peasant, a person with low education and start talking about alchemy and other alternative energy or whatever.
Well, that's the thing I can never understand.
There always seemed to be a prank dream.
I had some contactee friends who knew actually nothing about the subject matter that they were being told about, and so they couldn't deal with it.
And this happened so many times, this is what I could never make sense of.
Absolutely, that's a really good question.
I'm going to use the top questions.
I'm pretty sure, if you think about it, they create the zeitgeist.
And I got caught up in the zeitgeist.
Once 96 came and I started reading Flying Source Review, I met the original writer for it.
I then became plugged into this.
But I then had the zeitgeist of all those people who'd had those experiences that then framed it for me that I could actually then engage.
I mean, I was lucky.
I could get repeat experiences.
Otherwise, if I had a one-off, I would have had no dialogue.
So I didn't let it end.
I kept it going and now I go out with people and we try and...
That's the next thing.
We'll see how we do.
I think it's to do with past lives.
Past lives, I would say.
That's come up as well for my Brazilian friend.
When he was talking to that rainbow-eyed lady, she talked about it's all past lives for these things.
It's what they were, but they don't know.
So I think you can probably carry...
I've even done past life research and I had the weirdest case where a lady was in trance with a television hypnotist of all people.
There was a television doctor who put her in hypnosis.
I'm not making this story up.
It happened.
She transferred her energy and became a previous incarnation in front of him.
He had an absolute fit of fear because she became a Greek lady with braids and she was a small dark Scottish lady and she became a Greek lady.
And he left the country.
He went to Australia, funnily enough.
He was so frightened, she had to deal with it because she actually went to the mirror and could see light coming through her skin.
So what that means, again, is that the information field of a previous life came out.
I've never heard of another case of it, but I wrote it up.
And for me, it's like those previous lives.
So my issues probably come from previous lives, even though it sounds mad, but at least I'm talking to the right people here.
I think we're all previous lives.
We're all carrying, like, layers of information.
So that's why they picked these people.
It's probably they were something that was capable, but not in this particular time.
They haven't been triggered.
Anyone else?
anymore the guy next to you Do you think there are modes that you don't understand?
Something you're going to understand in the future?
They seem to cause behaviour.
So this guy, his name's Newton.
He's a great friend of mine.
He is so active.
He's picked up.
He's got books and people's histories of contacts from Brazil.
Brazil was a really good location, and he's found an entire contact story of a guy who's dead, who wrote it up in a diary.
He's got that, he's publishing that, and he's basically an activist.
I mean, the weird thing with Newton is we get the big ships, we all get the big ships, which is weird.
So you get these small ships, and then you get the big ones.
He'd be going out for a pee somewhere in Brazil.
And, you know, a real close encounter type ship will come over and he'll jump in his car and chase it, you know, just like the movie.
That's the kind of attitude that people have who've been switched on.
And he is constantly picking up information.
So that's going to, you know, become something.
His download definitely affected him.
He's a pilot.
He's an educated guy.
He's a farmer.
He does everything, you know, but he's able to do this, this strange thing.
So I think it was the guy behind.
Was there another one?
Yeah.
I have a question, I'm answering that.
He said, why shouldn't they be educated?
But perhaps the fact that a peasant person has got no prejudice.
So that's sort of proof that there's a, you know, you can download, if you like.
The majority of the flying source review is about evidence.
The other point is about extraterrestrials being the different sorts.
So, if you've got pre-admin, for example, they'll probably be more aware of our predicament, and as I say, I don't know, normally, or something that could be colder and more sort of, they're grateful with us or not.
So there are some nasty things that try and possess you almost and try and take over your life.
And then there's people, they play with us.
I mean, it's kind of scary.
When you get into the detail, they will put people in situations and they will activate behaviour patterns.
And it gets quite scary because you're a pawn.
And, you know, the more you learn, the more, you know, you realise, oh, it's not looking, you know, as nice as I first thought.
So what we have to be is, well, not have to be, no one has to be anything.
But the awareness of this is how this stuff emerges and what it is.
I think it's where we're going.
So our minds are already going into virtual reality.
We're going into, like, all of us have got our iPhones and things, and we're able to communicate with so many people.
I think we're going to be sort of trans-dimensional before we know it at some point.
Not yet, but it's going to happen.
And we'll run into this entire ecosystem of stuff which we can't see currently.
We don't know it's there.
I mean, I'm stuck in the middle because I know it's there, but I'm still living here.
I mean, I used to ask the one I knew to take me with her.
I mean, most people do.
They say, well, come on, let me go.
I've done enough.
Let me go.
I'm ready now.
Never got away, did I?
I'm still here.
So that's what happens.
And then, you know, that's it.
Yeah.
Yeah, I can mention, but all the downloads are 2012, yeah?
Yeah.
You know, it's like, it's just like, obviously, you know?
Yeah.
It's changed.
And I mean, I feel it's downloading now too.
That's right, in Crown Shack, yeah, that's it.
Did you find that less people got damage to the downloads or in recent times?
Well, definitely, I think these people have more resources now, so they can talk.
I mean, this country's really...
But I used to go to France, and there's rubbish.
And they're really rubbish at this.
And I admire the French, but they don't have they're very rational and reasonable, but they don't have I mean, I know some of their researchers who are very good.
And you think, why is that?
So culturally, different countries can't handle it.
But I think as Brits, we've got a great history.
We've got a history of exploring and a history of being a bit odd.
Let's call it what it is.
And I think we're better at it than most other countries.
I'm really pleased with the way the people are in this country.
In that way, on the paranormal level, you can meet any type of person.
You know, you meet big burly guys covered in tattoos.
And there's one funny guy in the gym, he's a cage fighter, and I have to respect him, he's a nice guy, very nice.
And I trained with him, and he was abducted as a child by an alien, you know, and he was chased by a craft, he was a little boy, and he was running, and it came and took him, and he just told me, you know, and that guy can, you know, he's in cage fights.
And he has that, when he told me about that, there was just the integrity, and he's a good guy all round anyway, but it's like, you just listen to a guy like that, and you think, he knows, but he just For me, when I started seeing things, I completely changed my life priorities.
So yeah, I do a normal job.
I do normal things.
And that was one of the most important things I had to learn, was to get back into normal life.
If you're a post-contact person, you have to be normal.
You have to do normal stuff.
I always go back to that Buddhist thing.
Chop wood, draw water, get enlightenment.
Chop wood, draw water.
That's one old sort of saying, isn't it?
so I had to go back to being a very ordinary guy.
Which I do.
There you go.
In terms of contact, do you have like a specific protection ritual or certain process?
You're quite right again, I used a lot of herbs because I came from a natural medicine background and there was something called white thorn apple which I basically created these really high frequency remedies when I first started because I knew that there's a guy called Ivan T Sanderson who used to write a magazine called Pursuit.
If you leave your bedroom door open so a window open Bats, birds, burglars, every sort of thing.
Insects come in.
So if you've got an open door, your energy field, when you've first opened, anything can come through.
So I think crystals are the answer, and meditation, and hanging around with good people.
Because you're very vulnerable.
If you accidentally meet the wrong kind of person, and you've just been opened, you're way off.
So anyway, I think I've finished.
Here's Katrine.
Thanks.
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