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Feb. 20, 2025 - Project Camelot

04:08:40

JOHN LEAR: TELLS ALL FLYING INTO THE SUN

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	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	They're going to put a hologram and say, oh, we're being attacked, you know, by aliens.
	We've made a deal with the ambassador.
	And he says that they feel that Earth is a threat.
	But if you all take any weapons you have and turn them in, that they'll give us a second chance.
	I would take them and freeze them in a position 20 miles out at 7,000 feet, 560 miles an hour, put them in the seat, and then give them two minutes of looking at their horizons, show them where the World Trade Center is, and say, I'm about to release you.
	When I do, you'll have a minute and 50 seconds to hit dead center.
	It's impossible at the height of my career.
	As proficient as I was in every kind of airplane, there's no way I could have done that.
	I mean, it's just too complex.
	The same thing with 2012. It's just going to be a year like every other year.
	We're going to continue to have these wars.
	We will probably have a nuclear war, you know, but things are just, you know, going to go a long time.
	And I even have a hunch that you might have been part of MJ-12 at one point.
	It was December 6th.
	Of 1988, Bob comes, sits down, and he says, I saw a disc today.
	And I'm writing out checks there, you know, and I'm not paying a disc.
	I said, what?
	He says, I saw a disc today.
	A disc?
	Theirs or ours?
	And he said, theirs.
	I said, you went to Groom Lake?
	And he said, yeah.
	And I said, what are you doing here?
	I said, obviously, we're going to follow you.
	Why don't you just, you know, work there for a while and then come and tell us what happened?
	He says, because I have seen you take so much crap over the past six months about this.
	I'm telling you, it's real.
	I saw it.
	I touched it, you know.
	I'm looking at him and said, what, what, what?
	He said, John, you will never know what it's like to see your first alien.
	I said, you saw one?
	You saw one?
	Yeah.
	I said, it couldn't have been a doll.
	It couldn't have been...
	No.
	It was mine.
	And, you know, these days, you ask him that question, he says, well, I don't know.
	It could have been a doll.
	They were doing all these weird stuff.
	But that night, that's exactly what he said.
	You know, the deal, the way security like that works is when they give you a clearance and when you're deep inside like that, they tell you, look, John, We've given you this clearance, and of course we expect it to keep you secret,
	but we know that every once in a while you may accidentally mention something at a party, you may have had too much to drink, and you think it'd be interesting to talk about this, and we just want you to know that we don't really care, we won't hurt you, but we will kill your wife, your children, your mom, your dad, your parakeet, your dog.
	Hi, I'm Carrie Cassidy, and this is Project Camelot, and we are very happy to be returning to see John Lear and do a retake and a new interview.
	He's going to tell all, basically.
	Is that right, John?
	Yeah.
	You're going to absolutely charm us and dazzle us with new information.
	I'm going to tell what I know up to this point, and I'm not saying it's absolute ironclad what's really going on, but it's what I think is going on.
	Great.
	But I'd first like to say I can't believe it's been two years since we did this.
	It seems like only about six months.
	But first of all, let's talk about what happened at ATS. What do you know about it?
	Okay, I know you've been banned.
	That's the extent of it, and we don't actually know why.
	What we know about it is that, or what we think we know, is that it's a CIA front and managed by the CIA. So if you've been banned, it might be that you're getting too hot.
	That's what I think.
	And when I first joined ATS, maybe three years ago, I thought, you know what, this is just a collection point.
	For what people think is going on.
	So that they know what the general public thinks is going on.
	And they have a bunch of debunkers there that are, you know, paid to go in there and somebody talks about something.
	They say, oh, no, no, here's what's really going on.
	So they generally, to generally influence public thought.
	But then I started to throw some, you know, interesting stuff in there.
	And they didn't say anything.
	So I thought, well, maybe it's okay.
	So, starting about four months ago, I started throwing some really secret stuff in there, which I'll tell you later.
	And it has to do with Navy submarines.
	It has to do with what the space shuttles do.
	And then pretty soon, you know, I'm gone.
	And the mechanics of exactly why I'm gone is Jeff Ritzman.
	And David Biedny were two of the main Myers debunkers.
	Now, the Myers story was true.
	There's no doubt about it.
	He took pictures.
	He went on rides.
	I don't care whether you say that, you know, there was pictures of dinosaurs or the lady came out of Sears magazine.
	That's all contamination.
	The fact is it was true.
	And so I really don't have time to support the Myers thing other than in the thread I would come up every once in a while and say, hey look, you know, I'm busy with other things.
	If I had time, you know, I'd tell you exactly how the Myers thing happened and why I believe it.
	But all I want to tell you is the Myers case is true and John Lear believes it's true and that's the bottom line there.
	And I'm telling you, I would get hit so hard on ATS. Pages and pages of people knocking me, particularly Jefferson and David Biedny.
	So one day, I got a list of everything, all the insults they made of me, and there were 16 of them.
	And I put them at the end.
	I said, you know, it's funny that any other thread, people would be taken to task for insulting another person, but apparently on the Billy Meyer thread, it's okay to insult John Lear, and I put these 16 things.
	Well, that was on a Sunday evening.
	Monday morning, I wake up, go to log on, and here's a skeptic overlord.
	What's his name, Bill?
	Bill Oven.
	Pardon?
	Bill Oven.
	Bill Oven.
	That's the other one.
	It says, you know, we've post banned you here until you can prove that what you said that Ritzman and Biedny posted were true.
	We've had our best moderators and they can't find a single quote that was true.
	So all we need is your help.
	And I'm thinking, holy smokes, I just, you know, got all that, copied all that yesterday.
	I started to worry because it never even occurred to me to go back and check to see if it was still there.
	I just assumed if Bill Irvine said it wasn't there and his moderator said it wasn't there, then it wasn't there.
	And so what I thought was one of the moderators was in on it and it's gone.
	And the only hope I have of recovering it is going into the archives.
	So that was like about...
	Eight in the morning and the whole day long, here's Bill Irvine coming back every two hours.
	John, you know, we can't find any of this.
	We need your help, you know, with a few little minor digs in it.
	So I'm waiting for Ron Schmidt to get off work at six so he can show me how to go into the archives.
	So finally, just before I went over to Ron Schmitz that Monday, about 5 o'clock, I said, you know, I'm just going to take a look and be sure that it's not there.
	And I found every single quote still there.
	So I laboriously took the time to copy every one and paste it on this one piece of paper exactly where it was, send it to Bill Irvine, and he sends me back an email that says, Jeff admitted it.
	It's a done deal.
	So in other words, the moderators were kind of like in collusion with this guy, Jeff?
	No, it turns out that none of them were colluding.
	It turns out that everything was still there.
	But Irvine said all his guys couldn't find those quotes.
	But that's what I'm saying.
	If they couldn't find the quotes, then they suddenly found them.
	Then in a certain sense, it sounds like they're working with Jeff.
	That could be.
	Anyway, Bill said, if we all agree to keep this between us.
	I said, no, I don't agree to keep that between us.
	I want everybody to know exactly what happened here.
	You know, you say this above top secret and we're trying to get all this information.
	Why should this little feud in which you've caused me an entire day of grief, and really, I told Bill, I said, I've been posting here for two years.
	I spent eight to 16 hours answering questions on ATS. And you accuse me of...
	Falsifying information?
	I mean, that's insane!
	So I wouldn't agree not to shut up, and they didn't let me on.
	So it sounds like they're playing games.
	Yeah, so they had a lot of people ask about John Lear, and finally on Sunday, the following Sunday, they let me on just long enough I could get in my two cents worth, and then I was banned forever.
	It was obvious that ATS has been a clearinghouse.
	They wanted the information that the public got to see if they could influence that.
	They weren't interested in having good stuff come out there that the public could see.
	And I'm telling you, I was telling some good stuff and I was getting away with it!
	Well, let's get that good stuff on here today.
	It was really surprising.
	They were letting me get away with this stuff because, you know, I know what's going on.
	And so then it rapidly came to a halt.
	So now we've talked to several people at ATS and they said nobody gets to put any more good stuff on.
	You know, it's got to be backed up 100% or they're banned and their post is deleted.
	I think the crowning blow.
	Was when they rolled in Jim Oberg.
	And Jim Oberg has been NASA's front man for, you know, 30 years.
	He knows everything about everything.
	And when we got into the bait on the neutral point, which I'll discuss later, which absolutely proves that there's 64% gravity on the moon, I got Jim Oberg.
	And I'll read you the exact thing he came back with.
	You know, he was stuck.
	There was nothing more for him to say.
	He was done for.
	And that's when things started to go downhill.
	And I'll read you the exact thing that Jim Ulrich said.
	So John, what's going to be your approach at this point that you're being?
	Because in a way, that was kind of a place where you could connect with the public.
	Are you going to join another...
	I post on four little forums.
	And anybody that calls and asks, I give them these forums.
	And it's no big deal.
	There's like 300 on one and 80 on another.
	And my bag is...
	It's not reaching a lot of people.
	It's reaching the very few that are interested in what's going on.
	And that's not a threat to the government, really, I don't think.
	Okay, well, there are plenty of people that visit forums that don't log on.
	So it's good news to know that you're actually still out there and still posting.
	What we're going to talk about today is the stuff that's current on these forums.
	One is Open Minds, and the other is American Conspiracy, the other is Fantastic Forum, and I think there's one other.
	And then I have a website with Ron Schmidt that's called thelivingmoon.com, and I try and keep all the stuff that we find out on there.
	Livingmoon.com is an excellent website.
	I want to state this for the record.
	There are not that many websites that we at Project Camelot would be willing to recommend, but that's a good one.
	Okay, let me tell you about the origin of thelivingmoon.com was when I posted the original huge megabyte pictures of the moon on ATS. In other words, I sent them by DVD to...
	What's his name there?
	Bill?
	Mark?
	No, Mark.
	And he posted them.
	For the first week, people were saying, I don't see, you know, John, I don't see what you see there, you know, and everything.
	And then this guy called Zorgon started to see the stuff.
	And so I would lead him to it, you know, and I didn't lead him anywhere.
	You know, I didn't say, well, here it is, because you can't do that.
	You got to let them find it.
	And Zorgon started coming up with this.
	The stuff.
	And then he started finding more than I did.
	And I said, you know, we got to meet.
	And I'm thinking, holy shit, this guy lives in New Jersey, you know, and I'm going to have to get back there.
	It turns out he lives, you know, a couple of miles down the street.
	So, he comes up here, you know, we start trading information, and he already had a website, you know, having to do with Middle Evil stuff, so we just made the Living Moon a part of that, and the information just started to come in from all kinds of sources.
	Sources have no idea how they got this stuff.
	But a lot of stuff on the Russian black ships, and it just keeps pouring in.
	It's a good site.
	It's about 10% of the stuff is posted on there just because we don't have the time.
	You know, we'd like to have a secretary, but both of us are broke, you know, so we can't put it all on there.
	So we put the most interesting stuff.
	On there.
	And Ron works down at the convention center.
	He's the guy that sets things up and takes things down.
	But he comes home and every once in a while we get together, you know, like once a week and talk about what we're going to focus on.
	But that's it.
	Let me share this email with you, John.
	This is from somebody called Gary Dix, D-I-X, who used to work very closely with Simon, Mark and Bill in the early days of ATS. And after a major disagreement, he quit.
	He's based in New Zealand.
	And he sent me a long email a couple of years ago.
	And I'll just read one of the pertinent paragraphs.
	As they become more negative over a topic...
	They begin to drive the threads using sock puppets, fake member names, as they don't want to be seen to be guiding directions in the threads as mods and admin.
	This is the style of mods and admin in the future, using fake accounts to allow them to freely post their ideas.
	You got this on a record from a guy on the inside.
	Okay, now of course they'll deny it, but if you've got somebody whose username is SkepticOverlord, What does that tell us?
	I mean, the truth is in plain sight.
	ATS is a skeptical sight.
	ATS is a debunker's sight.
	And so what the debunkers do is this phrase, which you know, you keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
	So you're an enemy of anyone who wants the truth really out.
	So they bring you in really close with the intention of controlling public opinion about you.
	It nearly worked, but not quite.
	Because they made the mistake of calling John Lear a liar.
	And John Lear may be all kinds of things, but John Lear is not a liar.
	And everybody knows that, who knows anything about John Lear.
	But what are the chances of, you know, me posting those pictures on ATS, you know, and the one guy who starts seeing the good stuff lives, you know, three or four miles down the road.
	I mean, it's really, it's really great.
	It's freaky.
	But that's how synchronicity works.
	And every day I see an example of synchronicity.
	Well, that means you're really plugged in to what's going on here and that you're getting some unseen help, basically.
	I mean, a synchronicity is just being in sync with the universe in a major way.
	And everything is going in that direction, basically the direction of disclosure and truth.
	So, on that note, let's kind of dive in here.
	We know you've got a lot of stuff to cover today, so where would you like to go first?
	First, we're going to cover the Nibiru scam, Planet X. It is not there.
	It is not going to cause a problem in 2012. It's a scam.
	I see it working from every different direction.
	It's just a plot to keep us...
	You know, in a state of anxiety, everything's going to go along just as normal.
	The world isn't going to disintegrate.
	There's going to be no planet that comes and shakes everything up.
	Everything is going to go along just fine.
	Okay, are you saying this in general about 2012?
	Yes.
	Or are you saying this all...
	Specifically about Planet X or Nibiru or whatever you want to call it, and 2012. 2012 is like...
	Is this a year?
	Is what?
	Is it just a year in your opinion?
	Yeah.
	It's just like, what did we call this Y2K? You know, we all got generators and food and everything, and everything was going to collapse.
	The same thing with 2012. It's just going to be a year like every other year.
	We're going to continue to have these wars.
	We will probably have a nuclear war, you know, but things are just going to go along fine.
	There is going to be no absolute...
	Where do you get your information?
	Are you just coming to this conclusion in your No inside scoop.
	I have never had an inside scoop on most all of my information.
	You know, I've come out with it myself, and it's more fun like that, because people say, you know, who told you that gravity on the moon was 64% and there's an atmosphere?
	Well, there's a lot of books out there, but basically, I'm the guy that came out and said, yeah.
	There's gravity on the moon and there's the atmosphere on the moon.
	Why should we believe that you would know this?
	I mean, is it because you were a pilot?
	Because you're trained in a certain way?
	Where is your trail?
	Well, as far as the gravity on the Moon, we're going to talk about the Bulli-Aldis-Newton law of inverse square.
	And we're going to talk about how usually NASA convinces you using Newton's gravitational law, which assumes the mass of the Earth and the Moon.
	That's not what you want to use.
	You want to use Bulli-Aldis-Newton law of inverse square because you don't have to care what the mass is.
	All you need to know is what the distance We know where the neutral point is, and where the neutral point is.
	If we know where the neutral point is, the size of the planets, we can figure out what the gravity is.
	Now, we know what the neutral point is because, number one, Wernher von Braun told us, number two, One, the crew of Apollo 17 told us, and three, one of the other Apollo missions told us.
	And it's about 38,000 or 39,000 miles.
	And if you work out the law of inverse square, it comes out to be that the moon is 64% gravity of the Earth.
	That's all there is to it.
	You don't have to assume mass.
	And as far as planet...
	Ex-Nibiru, that's based on 65 years of listening to bullshit about what's coming on and what disaster is coming next.
	It's just, you know, I know that there's nothing going to be happening.
	Okay, let me ask you, just because we have several witnesses that are giving us evidence.
	I know you do.
	We're certainly in question about this.
	We have not reached a conclusion ourselves.
	However, First of all, there's the South Pole Telescope.
	There's also the interest of the Vatican and the Jesuit footage that came out, you know, with Barbato.
	Maybe you've seen the footage, maybe you haven't.
	Maybe you can give us some background on why you think that footage is not accurate or not real.
	And then there's also the heating of the planets.
	How do you account for the heating of the planets and the activity on the Sun, which is going to reach a peak, Are you talking about global warming?
	It's not global.
	David Wilcock and Richard Hoagland have gone through planet by planet and shown you how there's increased activity all the way down and that there's actually heating up.
	It's information in the public domain that every planet in the solar system is heating up.
	It seems to be connected with solar cycle 24. And then some people say that there's something else that's driving this.
	I wouldn't even pay any attention to it.
	Everybody gets to believe what they want.
	In 2012, you can look back and say, John Lear on April 2nd, 2008, said it was all bullshit.
	And if it wasn't, you know, I was wrong.
	But, you know, I think it's a total scam.
	I'm sure you've rubbed shoulders with the intel community.
	You know that your office is bugged.
	You've demonstrated that to us.
	There's a reason why they bug you.
	I mean, first of all, you know, you're a pilot from way back.
	You're incredibly respected.
	You have a background, military slightly, you know.
	And I even have a hunch that you might have been part of MJ-12 at one point.
	So you've known all the insiders.
	Tell me why it is that you're saying you have no inside sources suddenly.
	I mean, you know, Bob Lazar.
	Let me correct it.
	I had three inside sources.
	One was Jimmy Doolittle.
	And he's the one that told my mom that MJ-12 existed.
	That story is important because when I was first getting into all this in 1987, and Chandra and Moore came out with the supposed Eisenhower briefing, and it talked about Majestic 12, I needed to know, is this true?
	And the only person that I knew that would have known beyond a shadow of a doubt was Jimmy Doolittle.
	Okay, now who's Jimmy Doolittle?
	General Jimmy Doolittle, behind you, that's him taking off a...
	To bomb Tokyo, taking off from the Hornet.
	Incidentally, the same aircraft carrier that picked up Apollo.
	And that letter that you see is when I had my accidental airplane crash in Geneva, Switzerland in 1961 and nearly killed myself.
	He was the only one to take the time to write me a letter and say, John, we all make mistakes.
	I've made plenty of them.
	But it's important that we profit.
	It's only important that we profit by our mistakes.
	And he took the time to write that whole letter, so I have it framed with him taking off on the Hornet to bomb Tokyo.
	General Jimmy Doolittle was an incredible general, very respected, and he was involved with MJ-12 up to his ears.
	He was not a part of MJ-12, but he was around our house in Santa Monica, 2214th Street.
	He lived down on 3rd Street with his wife, Josephine, and they were in our house just like Vandenberg.
	Just like Twining.
	All those MJ-12 guys were around our house.
	But, you know, I didn't know that at that time, and my father never said much about UFOs other than that he believed them.
	And I never found out any of this stuff until like...
	I got into this stuff, 1985, 86, and Doolittle's name kept coming up time after time after time.
	Now, I knew him, and there's autographed pictures all around this den of Jimmy that I've asked for, and I saw him at various, like SETP, which is Society of Experimental Test Pilots, and to say hello and everything, but I didn't really know him that well.
	But I knew that my mom knew him.
	And she was as close to Jimmy Doolittle as anybody in her life, Jimmy and Joe.
	Now, his wife passed away in the 80s sometime, and he was retired, lived in Carmel, California, and I knew that.
	And I also knew that my mom talked to him every once in a while.
	So I knew that the only way I would have of determining whether Majestic 12 was true was to get her to ask him.
	And it took about six months to get it together, because she's always hesitant, you know, to do stuff like that.
	But I finally got her to do it, and she called up and she said, Jimmy, how you doing?
	By the way, John's interested in this stuff, and I just want to know, was Majestic 12 real?
	And he said, yes, boy, it was, but I can't say anything about it.
	That, for me, was, you know...
	The beginning of everything.
	Because if Majestic 12 is real, then it's a possibility the briefing papers were real.
	And if they were real, then everything else is real.
	Right, because why would you put together something like MJ-12 under Truman to investigate or manage the UFO story, unless there was no UFO story?
	Right?
	There's got to be a UFO if you're going to put together a group.
	So I'd have to say that was my first insider.
	So now, tell me something.
	You must know the history to some degree.
	I mean, you've been around a long time.
	You've seen them in operation.
	You must have met some of the insiders.
	And I have to say that I think they would have recruited you.
	Am I wrong?
	No, I... You never got an offer.
	No, I'm just, you know, I was a pilot.
	I didn't know anything, you know, until 1984. But you know a lot now.
	Yeah.
	Look at this office.
	It's incredible.
	Yeah.
	You know, up till 1984, my sole interest was SR-71, F-19, stealth fighter, stuff like that.
	As a matter of fact, you can go on the internet.
	John Andrews, who was vice president of testers, and eventually made the sport model.
	You know, he and I had letters going back and forth.
	He'd say, hey, you ought to look into this flying saucer deal.
	And I'd say, no, it's bullshit.
	I don't need to waste my time.
	That letter's on the internet.
	You know, my interest didn't start till...
	In 1985, I think, I used to run the reunion for all the Southeast Asia pilots that worked for CIA, and I'd run the reunion here in Las Vegas called China Post One.
	And we'd have it every two years.
	And one of these years, and I think it was 1985, A friend of mine whose name was Greg Wilson, he was a raven.
	Now, the raven were the Air Force guys they'd take out of the Air Force, sheep dip them, give them civilian ID. They'd come into Laos and they'd fly, you know, the 01s and they were the ravens and they'd go out on the PDJ and all around and do all kinds of amazing things.
	Anyway...
	He attended the reunion.
	His name was Greg Wilson.
	And he got to talking to him, hey, where all you been?
	He said, well, you know, here and there, still flying A-10s.
	I spent a tour at Bentwaters.
	And I said, Bentwaters?
	That was the place, you know, supposedly in, you know, 1980 that the flying saucer land.
	He says, no, John, not supposedly it did.
	I said, I didn't get to see it because I was confined to quarters, but I know the guys who did.
	And I said, what?
	I said, you're telling me this stuff is real?
	He said, oh, yeah.
	So here's a guy that I flew with in Southeast Asia, hadn't seen for years.
	I give him this outrageous, you know, question about, you know, Bentwater.
	He said, yeah, yeah, I was confined.
	I didn't see it, but I know the guys who did.
	So that's what piqued my interest.
	That's 1985, you know.
	So, you know.
	So you've got more, you've got insiders coming to you.
	You've got insiders that are friends.
	I wouldn't say he was an insider.
	An insider like as Bob Lazar.
	Right.
	And the only other insider, the real insider, I mean the guy, and it's been like, you know, if you guys were here two years ago, that's probably been like five or six years ago.
	I can't remember when I met him.
	Well, I know when it was.
	Yeah, it's been a long time ago.
	It's been almost 20 years.
	I used to live up in Idaho.
	He was retired.
	He told friends of mine a lot more than he told me.
	But just before he died, he came down to Vegas and more or less said, what do you want to know?
	And I didn't even know what to ask.
	And his name is?
	Are you at liberty to tell us?
	No, because the deal, the way security like that works is when they give you a clearance and when you're deep inside like that, they tell you, look.
	John, we've given you this clearance, and of course we expect you to keep you secret, but we know that every once in a while you may accidentally mention something at a party, you may have had too much to drink, and you think it'd be interesting to talk about this, and we just want you to know that we don't really care, we won't hurt you.
	We will kill your wife, your children, your mom, your dad, your parakeet, your dog, you know, everybody else.
	But you'll be okay.
	So that's why people don't talk.
	And people say, well, he's on his deathbed.
	Why wouldn't he talk?
	That's why.
	It's because they make it clear it's not him that's going to get hurt.
	It's every person in his family and then starting with his best friend.
	Towards the end of his life, I saw him three times.
	I drove to Idaho to see him twice, and then once back here.
	And when I was in Idaho, he didn't tell me all that much, but he did tell me one interesting thing that never made sense until this year when I find out, you know, the information I'm getting is just going exponentially.
	Every time I get someplace, you know, then I'm led to someplace else, and it's just so much information coming in.
	Anyway, what he told me was that he worked on a project.
	A mining machine for the moon.
	And this thing was being built in the south somewhere.
	He didn't tell me where, but, you know, I'm imagining Arkansas or Alabama someplace like that.
	He said, John, this thing was so big.
	He said that when I finished it, he said, I have a private license.
	I rented an airplane just to go up and fly around to see how mammoth this thing was.
	And I said, well, can you give me an idea?
	He says, acres.
	I said, Wow.
	I said, how'd they get it to the moon?
	He said, I don't know.
	And that's how projects like that work.
	He doesn't have a need to know how they got it to the moon.
	His job was to build it, you know, and they're not going to tell him any of that.
	That's how compartmentalization works.
	You know, that's one.
	We've been told by somebody.
	He told us that Project Lunax and Horizon were never canceled.
	Absolutely.
	And Project Horizon is on our website, right?
	Yes.
	We've got four of the phases of Project Horizon, except one.
	I think it's number two that we need.
	So I'll show you that and show you what we're still looking for.
	Can you just tell me one thing?
	Have you been threatened?
	Never.
	Never the slightest bit.
	So either you've never crossed the line, you've never revealed anything that you weren't supposed to, or you don't know enough.
	Is that right?
	Or you're doing someone a favor.
	Or somebody's protecting me.
	Okay.
	But you are exactly right.
	Either I'm talking through my hat and I don't have the real information.
	Right.
	Or?
	Or somebody's protecting me.
	Do you know who?
	Oh, I didn't say.
	Which one was true?
	I mean, you know, I think a lot of this stuff is true, but how would I know?
	I've never been to the moon.
	I'd like to go.
	If I go and somebody can arrange a ride like Bob Lazar, he says he's going to have his spate suits on while we're standing, you know, in the airlock there.
	And when it comes up like that, he says, you know, at least I'm going to have some air, you know, and I'll watch you suffocate.
	I said, no, no, I'll be able to breathe normally.
	Now, when people go to the moon, it takes them two weeks of decompression before they can actually go out and spend some time there.
	The fact is, you can go right there and breathe, but, you know, you'll get altitude sickness.
	Just like if you go to climb Everest, you can go right up there.
	You'll probably live, but, you know, you'll hurt pretty bad.
	That's why they go to the different camps as they go up, is to get acclimatized, and the same thing to the moon.
	It takes about two weeks.
	How the moon got where it is because you know that the moon is a satellite that's actually a fake.
	Right.
	It's a spaceship.
	It was towed into orbit, I would say, 30,000 to 40,000 years ago.
	Now, the reason I say 30,000 to 40,000 years ago is because it's still within the history of man.
	Velikovsky talks about the different proselynes and the different civilizations that talked about the time when there was no moon, and then when there was two moons, and now we have one moon.
	This guy here, Wrote The Ringmakers of Saturn.
	It's an excellent book.
	Norm Bergman is very qualified, was for 40 years a scientific part of both NACA and also Lockheed, retired from Lockheed, I think about 15 years ago.
	What's NACA? National Aeronautics.
	The predecessor to NASA. National Aeronautics Commission.
	They were the predecessor to NASA. But when he retired, he somehow got some photos, some really good negatives of Voyager which went by Saturn.
	And he set up a little lab in his house, and he started looking these.
	And he ended up writing Ringmakers of Saturn.
	And what he shows you here is what he found in the Rings of Saturn is three vehicles, spaceships, the biggest of which...
	It's 31,496 miles long and 2,422 miles in diameter.
	We're talking about a fairly large spaceship there.
	Now, Norman Berggren, when he wrote this book at the beginning, it's very good.
	He says, now look.
	He says, I'm going to be talking about some stuff that...
	It's very interesting.
	But you can't skip a page.
	You can't skip a word that you don't know.
	You have to go from the beginning to end or you won't understand what I'm saying.
	And I did go from beginning to end.
	When was this written?
	This would be 1986. Okay, so it's not that old.
	No.
	And I go see Nora...
	And it's talking about a huge spaceship.
	In the ring of seven.
	Who built them?
	We don't know who built them.
	Us?
	No, no.
	We couldn't build anything like that.
	We have some amazing stuff, but we couldn't do that.
	No, this is somebody else.
	But what the interesting part in the book and the reason why we're getting here is because at the end of this book, he starts talking about the moon and how the moon was towed into orbit.
	The people that operate that stuff in Saturn, and also Iapetus, towed the moon into orbit.
	And he goes into here and explains exactly why he believes the moon was towed into orbit, how it was, and how they grabbed on to the Mari-Ori-NL. Who are you saying towed the moon?
	Whoever.
	We don't know.
	So he doesn't conjecture on what alien race, for example.
	I mean, obviously it's an alien race.
	Henry Deacon.
	Our secret source has also substantiated that.
	The moon was towed into orbit.
	But have you got an idea what alien race was responsible for that?
	No, absolutely none.
	None.
	What's interesting here, another interesting thing is I see Norm every year because when I go do the UFO Expo West, which is the only one I do, he lives in Los Altos Hills.
	And he's writing about Yafitis.
	And Yafitis is probably a spaceship too.
	Okay.
	So we've got to get in touch with this guy.
	You better, because he's on his way out.
	I saw him last September.
	He was not well.
	He was finishing up the book on Iapetus, but he wasn't working on it every day.
	Okay, was he a scientist?
	Yes.
	Okay, but who did he work for?
	I mean, in other words, he's government.
	Give me a second here.
	I understand that.
	But in a certain level, he's revealing secret information.
	No.
	As what?
	Well, I'm just asking you.
	Wouldn't this be secret?
	No.
	Thermodynamicist, Douglas Aircraft.
	1943-1994.
	Aero Research Scientist, NACA Ames Laboratory, 1944-1956.
	Lockheed Missile and Space Company, Dan I. Supervisor Flight Test, 1956-68.
	Manager Flight Test Analysis, 1958-1962.
	Manager Test Plans and Direction, 1962-63.
	Manager Re-Entry Test Operations, 1966-63.
	There's all this stuff, how qualified this guy is.
	Right.
	Why are they letting him talk?
	Why are they letting him do this?
	What's he saying?
	There's a spaceship that's 31 miles long in the rings of Saturn?
	So plausible deniability is...
	Sure!
	Who's going to believe that?
	Okay.
	All right.
	Okay, so anyway, two years ago at the UFO Expo West, I mean, that was so interesting because, number one, one of my lectures was Apollo 1 and the four people that were in it.
	There was Grissom, White and Chaffee, and then there was a fourth guy, and he was part of the secret astronaut corps.
	And the reason they had to keep it secret is because...
	If the public were allowed to know there was a fourth guy in there, then they would not want to know who he was.
	And there was no possible way that NASA could ever reveal that there was another guy in there, because they would have to reveal the secret space program.
	And the space program started in 1959, and they're the ones that went to the moon in 1962. They went to Mars in 1966. Everything we know is a cover for the secret space program.
	Anyway, when I give a lecture...
	If I have two hours, I always give an hour and then let the public talk to me for an hour because I'm going to learn more from them than they are from me.
	And one of Chaffee's relatives got up and said, John, you're right.
	We've always known this.
	There was a fourth man, but we didn't know who it was.
	Now, I know who the name is, but I keep it to myself because if somebody comes to me and says, I know who it is, I know who it is.
	And it's really interesting because his son is a current shuttle astronaut.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	So anyway, I go to see Norm two years ago, and in talking with him, I said, by the way, the electromagnetic vehicle that towed the moon into orbit, where is it now?
	And he said, I think it's on the backside of the moon.
	So when I got hooked up with Ron Schmidt, We started collecting photos on the backside of the moon and we found it.
	It's in the crater of Tchaikovsky.
	And the story of how we did it was so interesting and how NASA covered it up.
	Six different photos of Tchaikovsky as they tried to airbrush this electromagnetic vehicle out of the picture by making it an island.
	But we got them.
	And we got two really good photos.
	One was discovered by a lady who works with us in Florida.
	And she discovered it on a thumbnail of Tchaikovsky.
	And what happened is when NASA was advertising this particular photo, you know, they airbrushed the It's a big one, but when they had the thumbnails, somebody looked at that and said, hey, I'm not going to take the time to enlarge that, take the vehicle out and put it down.
	Nobody will notice it anyway.
	But we noticed it, and it's great.
	That's where we got the photo of the EMV on the far side.
	And Apollo 15 flew over, and they got some movies of it, and it's just a quick shot, but it's really interesting.
	The secret astronaut who was killed.
	His son is a shuttle astronaut.
	Right.
	Okay.
	And this is interesting because it sort of shows how they bring someone into the fold who might have something to tell the world at a later date.
	Right.
	But if he's a shuttle astronaut, he's not going to talk.
	Right.
	He's in the fold.
	Right.
	Same thing with Grissom's son.
	Oh really?
	See, this would be an interesting investigative angle would be, what about all the sons and daughters of the astronauts?
	Do they all work for the company?
	Yeah, it would be.
	Now, Gus Grissom, you know, when the fire started, you know, every single story you read will say that, you know, there's like three words spoken.
	Chaffee said, fire.
	Somebody said, you know, it's getting hot in here.
	But in every single story...
	Grissom doesn't say anything.
	Now, as you know, Grissom was the most highly critical and vociferous astronaut in that program.
	He came out, you know, before they were supposed to go up there, he said, there's 60 major things with this wrong.
	How can we possibly be flying this?
	He's the one that hung the lemon over the Apollo, you know, and NASA hated him.
	Now, I've been told by guys I... Consider insiders, and there's another one, column number four.
	But NASA didn't specifically kill those guys, but they let it happen.
	They knew it was going to happen, and they just let it happen.
	But why?
	Well, there's a number of reasons.
	Number one, they needed more time.
	They needed to get the program back on schedule, and the only way they could do that was to have a horrendous accident, and they wanted to get rid of Grissom.
	And so, as you know, the New York Times, and I forget the guy, the story the next day was that he talked to NASA and they said that the tape was gruesome of the last few minutes.
	And of course, we've all heard that Grissom didn't say anything.
	We all know what he said.
	He was saying, you know, you bastards, you've killed us all.
	You know, I knew this was coming to this.
	You know, I hope you all watch us, you know, die.
	And it's really bad.
	And so I'm sure that's what happened.
	And I saw another quote.
	Just yesterday, I can't remember what it was, about how gruesome the tape was.
	Wow.
	We'd like to ask you if Clark McClellan has got something to say about this as well.
	Yeah.
	We're in touch with Clark, but we haven't met him.
	Clark's a great guy.
	I've known him since 1990. We've never met, but we've always talked on the phone.
	I've always tried to get his notes.
	He has his book ready.
	He has three books.
	He doesn't want to publish one of them.
	He wants to publish all three.
	I don't blame him.
	He knows a lot of stuff.
	He knows much more than I'm telling you.
	Do you think that he's actually going to get his books published?
	Are they going to let him out there?
	No way.
	Not a chance.
	Anyhow.
	The only thing you know, I'd like to get him.
	But, you know, Clark is so pissed, and I don't know what happened, but I know he is the insider, the insider of NASA. There's nobody in the position, you know, that could come out and say more than Clark.
	I mean, he was there from the beginning.
	But they've done just about everything but killing him, haven't they?
	He hasn't got it.
	Right.
	And I don't know why they haven't killed him.
	Absolutely.
	Anyway, one more thing I'm going to tell you about Norm, because we're going to get it into...
	I'll get into it later.
	I told Norm the last time, last year I went to the UFO Expo, and I'll tell you, I got some good information.
	But anyway, I went to see Norm, and he's not well, and he's had several surgeries, and I expect any day to hear that he's passed away.
	He's 87. And I said, Norm, I said, I'm thinking that the airplanes that crashed into the World Trade Center were holographs.
	And he said, John, you're probably right.
	And here's why.
	He said, just before I retired, I was driving down on the Bayshore Freeway.
	To Sunnyvale and he said I had a friend in the right seat of the car and he says like it was about 8 o'clock in the morning, maybe 8.15.
	He said we're driving south and we saw this shadow and we looked up and here he says it wasn't a 747 but it was a huge four-engine airplane.
	It wasn't 200 feet above us.
	And he said, we looked out and looked at this thing.
	He said, of course, we're, you know, 20 miles from San Jose, you know, and 30 miles from San Francisco.
	There's no possible way an airplane could, you know, legitimately be flying right there.
	And he says, we watched it for about 10 seconds, and it went, just like you turned a light bulb out.
	And he said, so he said, if that was the contemporary holograph, presentation of a holograph, he says, then you're right.
	Oh, that's very interesting.
	The holographic technology is so far advanced that people just wouldn't believe it.
	But the other day I had a lady here that was helping Marilee on a casting program.
	Actually, she hired Marilee.
	She was from New York.
	She had two degrees from Harvard.
	She was just a wonderful, smart...
	Receptive lady.
	And we were talking about holographs.
	She says, well, let me tell you.
	She said, about five years ago, I was invited with about 15 other television executives into a private showing in Hollywood.
	And there was a, you know, a little auditorium.
	It wasn't very big.
	It could seat like maybe 30 people.
	And it was called, the presentation was called The Future of Television.
	And she said, I don't remember if Steven Spielberg was there, but you know, everybody else was.
	And she said it was, you know, brightly lit.
	And there was a stage and a podium on the stage.
	And we're sitting there and this guy comes out from behind and he's kind of east.
	German accent, East European accent, white hair, has glasses, and he comes out and he starts telling us the history of television and how they came up with the first cathode ray tube, and how they did this, and how they did that, and you know, he walks down in front of the stage, you know, walks up one of the aisles, he's polishing his glasses, you know, walks back up to the stage, you know, and she says, It was pretty boring.
	She says, after about 20 minutes, he wraps it up with something, you know, and that's the history of television.
	And he puts his glasses on and just like a light.
	He disappeared?
	He was a hologram?
	Yeah.
	And so, you know, that was seven years ago.
	So that's what television is coming to, is you won't have a screen.
	Right.
	You'll just turn it on and it'll be happening right there.
	It's right there.
	That's great.
	Well, that makes sense because the yellow book, I mean, they had the yellow book, right, from, what, the crash in 1947, apparently.
	And that's substantiated by Dan Beerish over and over again.
	So that's a hologram technology, right?
	So the reason I tell you that is because on ATS, when I first went there, one of the things I talked about was, you know, There were no planes on 9-11.
	This is really dynamite stuff.
	There was no airplane at the Pentagon.
	There was no airplane at the World Trade Center.
	And I'm telling you, when I started talking about holographs, the descent, I mean, the crush of guys that were out to kill me, I mean, it was amazing.
	There was like 20 guys.
	You're nuts.
	You're doing a disservice to the 9-11.
	Movement, you know, to find out the truth, you know?
	You talk about that, nobody's going to believe what the fact was.
	It was a holograph and it was CGI. Right, so can you take us through that?
	Take us through why you think that's true and how you got...
	I mean, you're a pilot.
	You certainly have, you know...
	A vote in whether those planes had the capacity to hit those buildings, because our Henry Deacon has told us some very interesting things also about those planes.
	Actually, he thinks they were remote controlled.
	I don't know if that's true, but basically that planes don't have the ability to actually steer into buildings at that level.
	I mean, I'm not a pilot, so I don't understand the logistics, but how did you come around to this?
	Okay, first of all, we're going to talk about Flight 11 and 77 didn't exist in the beginning.
	The Bureau of Transportation Statistics has no record of them taking off.
	So let's forget about them because they did not exist.
	So now we're just talking about 175. And Flight 93. Flight 93 allegedly crashed at Shanksville.
	Anybody who has any background in accident investigation or any background at all can't possibly believe an airplane crashed.
	There was no wreckage.
	It just simply could not happen.
	As far as 175, I just recently put in a call to a Pan American Flight simulator in Miami to see if I could rent a 767-200, which they have, and what I wanted to do was take six candidates,
	six candidate pilots, one current and qualified in the 767-200, one maybe qualified but not current, and then one maybe current in a high-speed jet but not the 767, and then the last three, the same...
	Currency as the alleged hijackers, like a couple hours in an Apache, a private license, maybe a commercial, something like that.
	And what I would do is in the simulator, you know, you can take them up.
	That New York is just like it is.
	I mean, the buildings are there.
	And I would take them and freeze them in a position 20 miles out at 7,000 feet, 560 miles an hour, put them in the seat.
	Say, you know, and then give them two minutes of looking at their horizons, show them where the World Trade Center is, and say, I'm about to release you.
	When I do, you'll have a minute and 50 seconds to hit dead center.
	Now, the World Trade Center is 220 feet wide.
	You've got to hit to the center.
	Not left or right.
	Right to the center.
	And explain how it goes.
	Then I would have one camera pointing at the pilot and one camera pointing at what he's looking at.
	And then say, go.
	And say, okay, now show me how easy this is, you know.
	Because all the guys on easy, oh, I did that in flight simulator, no problem, you know.
	It's impossible.
	At the height of my career.
	As proficient I was in every kind of airplane, there's no way I could have done that.
	I mean, it's just too complex.
	First of all, the airplane can't fly about 560 miles an hour.
	It can't fly more than 360, which is its velocity max operating.
	Maybe it could fly...
	Maybe 30, 40 miles an hour faster than that, but at VMO, the clacker comes on.
	The clacker is an FA-required safety device which clacks loud.
	And it clacks at a rate in a cycle that irritates the pilot so that he can't ignore it.
	He has to slow down.
	Now, there's no possibility a hijacker, first time in the airplane, is not only gonna fly it at 390 miles, 400 miles, but do it with that clacker.
	I have a question here, if I may.
	We have a credible witness who says that the planes weren't piloted, but they were remotely controlled like unmanned vehicles from thousands of miles away.
	And he said yes, but I'm asking John to comment on that from the point of view that this also answers the question raised by the fact that no human pilot could have hit that small target.
	No airplane crashed in the World Trade Center.
	First of all, remote controlling an airplane that size, or any size, is very difficult.
	And so I don't believe you could remote control an airplane the size of a 767-200 anyway, particularly to hit dead center of the World Trade Center.
	But the fact is, there was no wreckage from any airplane in the World Trade Center.
	And by no wreckage...
	I mean, nothing was found of any size anywhere around.
	Now, there was a panel of a fuselage that you see with five window shades, but when each airplane, American Airlines, the North Tower, and United Airlines and South Tower, hit, it was two-fifths of a second while they disappeared into the airplane.
	So, in two-fifths of a second, you're not going to have a panel about seven feet long.
	Drift down, you know, and just be lying there in almost perfect condition, unless it was accompanied by Mohammed Adda's passport.
	The only other thing that was found was the engine on Murray Street, and the engine on Murray Street has been identified as either a CFM-56, CFM stands for CENECMA, or the CF-6.
	Which was a 767 engine, which was developed out of the CFM56. But whichever one it was, the CF6 or the CFM56, it had to be General Electric.
	And unfortunately, or fortunately, United Airlines used strictly Pratt& Whitney.
	So that engine that you see flying off, and that engine they say is from 175, isn't from 175, because the guys whose job was to dump it off there, you know, in a smoking, smoldering thing, dumped off the wrong engine.
	There was a lot of things that the perps did that were suspect here.
	You know, the collapse of building number seven is just absolutely ridiculous.
	And the reason they had to do it that way is because...
	I suspect the holographic projector that projected Flight 175 and Flight 11 somehow became disabled because Flight 93 was the one that was supposed to crash into Building 7. And when they couldn't do it, they had to do things quickly.
	Make it fake 93 crashing in Shanksville.
	And I can imagine these guys all day long.
	What are we going to do?
	Nobody's going to believe this thing just collapsed, you know, from a little fire.
	And about 5 o'clock, you know, they said, well, let's go ahead and do it.
	Maybe no one will notice.
	So they go out this 47-story building, you know, into its footprint, you know, and expect everybody to believe in it.
	And of course they did.
	Okay, so they collapsed it into its footprint, but what did they use?
	I mean, don't they have scalar weaponry?
	I mean, you know, can't they just hit it?
	Yes, we do, but that particular thing was collapsed because it had controlled demolition, just like the World Trade Center.
	Right.
	The World Trade Center, what they did with controlled demolitions, the first part was to make what we call the Wile E. Coyote cutout in the face, like an airplane crashed in it, which is absolutely, insanely ridiculous, but a lot of people believed it.
	And then the other thing is they had to use controlled demolitions to cut each girder to 30 feet so it would fit on Rudy Giuliani's trucks going out of town.
	The World Trade Center was collapsed by a direct energy weapon being operated from one of our space weapons platforms.
	And the reason we know that is because of the size of the dust that was left to the concrete.
	It was approximately 80 microns.
	And that's what a direct energy weapon collapsed when it's...
	Point it down, that's what it uses.
	It's called molecular disassociation.
	I mean, it just disassociates the molecular structure of concrete.
	And that's why all that dust was there.
	There was just nothing left.
	And that's why the basement of the World Trade Center was molten for six weeks.
	It's because when it finally does hit the ground, it heats it up so much, you can pour as much water as you want.
	It's not going to cool off for a time.
	So I believe that all of this was controlled by the E-4B, the doomsday airplane, the 747, that was seen flying over the White House.
	I think there's the one that did the holographic projection, and they also transmitted the CGI, computer graphics, to the different TV channels to show the airplanes.
	Allegedly crashing.
	That's why we had the accidental nose out on one of the buildings.
	They were the ones that sent the alleged cell phone messages, which never occurred.
	They did all kinds of stuff.
	They made probably transponder things for the different ATCs to phone.
	So you're saying the hologram had to come out of, had to be done by a plane in the air?
	Yeah.
	Really?
	Yeah, it was done by a projector.
	A hologram projector.
	Okay, so the technology exists out there.
	Have you, I mean, and I understand that you talked to your friend who wrote the book, Norm, but where else have you heard about this holographic technology?
	Ron Blackburn.
	Do you know who he is?
	No.
	Do you know who he is?
	No, I don't.
	Ron Blackburn was with Lockheed for 30 years.
	He was with a stealth program, a project up at Groom Lake for 20 years.
	He was the one that I first heard there was aliens at the test site.
	Now, when I first met him, you know, 10, 15 years ago, he denied knowing everything.
	Now he's gotten a little bit more lax about what he says.
	I mean, he said, you know, up at Groom Lake, you know, there's an administration building, you know, just for the aliens up there.
	Ron was at my birthday party here.
	So he's retired now.
	We need to get to this guy as well.
	He's retired.
	He's very careful about what he says.
	And he still has retirement.
	But he came to my birthday party and he told us about holographic projections.
	He says they contain sound, light, heat, everything.
	I mean, everything is there.
	One of the problems that people have with holographic projections is, well, I saw it.
	It couldn't have been.
	You know, like, you know, they're thinking of holographic.
	Holographic projections like you see in Las Vegas or at a birthday party, you know, where it's a little dancing light like there.
	Where you can see through it.
	Yeah, and they say, well, I saw it, couldn't be.
	You know, it's ridiculous.
	And then they say, well, how would they have done the sound?
	They would have had speakers all up and down, you know, the street.
	It's too bad.
	People, you know, they don't really realize how far we are advanced with our technology.
	They were fooled.
	It was a scam.
	It was a psy-op.
	Okay, so who ran it?
	Basically, I call them the nasty NASA Nazis and the military-industrial complex.
	And Hoagland tells us exactly who they are and how they took over.
	And that's who ran it.
	Now, in March 31st, 2007, last year, a guy named Morgan Reynolds, have you heard the name?
	Yes.
	Okay.
	Filed a suit, called a Quid M complaint, against these 22 companies.
	And we're talking about major companies here.
	Science Applications International Corporation, Applied Research, Hughes, all these companies right here are being sued.
	And what they're being sued for is accepting money.
	For providing a government agency with fraudulent information.
	The government agency they provided with this fraudulent information was NIST, the National Institute of Standards and Technology.
	NIST was asked by President Bush to determine exactly why the World Center collapsed.
	What actually caused it to collapse?
	They came up with a reason that, you know, the jet fuel and it was just so far ridiculous that Morgan filed this suit and it's 40 pages and he outlines everything that they got wrong.
	And so the suit has been going along in court now.
	And you testified as to the holographic planes.
	As part of the suit, right?
	Well, what I did is I filed an affidavit on January 28th, 2008, this year, in support of the complaint and in opposition to the motion to dismiss.
	And basically, what I testified is, number one, why the airplanes couldn't have...
	Traveled as fast as they did, and how they couldn't be flown as well as they were, and why there was no wreckage in there.
	It's amazing that other pilots haven't come forward because this is...
	Well, other pilots are employed.
	They can't afford to come forward.
	There's very few people, there's a lot of...
	But this is our country we're talking about, you know?
	They can't do it.
	A lot of my information was taken from aerodynamics for naval aviaries, and I explained why an airplane cannot fly 500 miles at a thousand feet.
	It has to do with drag, and it has to do with power, and it has to do with the fact that they use turbofans.
	It just can't happen.
	So anyway, the governments and NIST contention that they flew 500 miles an hour, it didn't happen.
	It couldn't happen.
	So basically, that's what I explained in my suit.
	Now, you say, why don't many pilots come forward?
	Many have.
	There's an organization called Pilots4Truth.com, and I'm a member, one of the earlier members of that, and there's a lot of people that realize that this couldn't have possibly happened.
	There is no an airplane like...
	A Boeing 757 flying into the Pentagon.
	No, that didn't happen.
	So what happened at the Pentagon?
	At the Pentagon, a bomb went off to make that hole there, and they had a 55-gallon drum of diesel fuel that a guy lit to make all that black smoke there.
	And April Gallup, who...
	Yeah, I think the April Gallup story is fascinating.
	April Gallup was an army...
	Okay, so let's...
	Let's go back where we were, which is...
	Okay, we're talking about April Gallup.
	Right, April, okay.
	April Gallup was an army specialist, and I forget what her job was, but she had a top-secret clearance.
	She was sitting about 40 feet from where the explosion made the hole in the front of the Pentagon.
	And she had her six-month-old son right below her desk.
	And she thought that was odd because, you know, usually when she went to work, before going through security, they had to put the little kids in daycare.
	But on that day, security said, no, no, take the kid in with you.
	So she had the kid right below in his little holder there.
	And she says, It was really strange because as she pressed the on button for her computer, that's when the building exploded.
	And she said a lot of debris came down on her and she saw the hole over there and she thought, I got to get out of here.
	So she picked up her kid, put it over his back and went towards that opening.
	And she got through that opening onto the grass, which is where eventually triage was set up.
	But she said she saw no missile, saw no airplane, smelled no fuel.
	There was no, you know, no airplane in there.
	And later in the hospital, she got interviewed by Army Intelligence, and they asked her what she saw.
	And she started to say, I didn't see anything.
	And they said, no, yes, you did.
	You saw a Boeing 757 crash into there.
	And she says, no, no, no, I didn't.
	I mean, there was nothing there.
	And she's gone through hell for the last four or five years trying to get medical care.
	It's been a really very, very sad story.
	But one of the things I wanted to show, this is a page.
	From a military manual talking about stuff that they would like to get in the year 2025. This is called Airborne Holographic Projector.
	You can see where I got it.
	You can't get it anymore here.
	But it was www.au.af.mil.
	And I got about 250 pages of this stuff.
	And it's talking about a hologram machine.
	It refers to enemy perception management.
	Is that right?
	That's such a wonderful euphemism.
	Have I remembered that right?
	Yeah, it says, Brief description.
	The holographic projector plays a three-dimensional visual image in a desired location, removed from the display generator.
	The projector can be used for psychological operations and strategic perception management.
	It is also useful for optical deception and cloaking, providing a momentary distraction when engaging an unsophisticated adversary.
	And it has capabilities for...
	Precision projection of three-dimensional visual images into a selected area, supports SIOP and strategic deception management, and provides deception and cloaking against optical centers.
	Okay, and when was that written?
	Do you know?
	I think in 99. I'm not sure.
	I'll give you an address where you can get it now.
	It's not at that address, but I think it's at Maxwell Air Force Base.
	We have to believe that if that's out in the public sector, that this is just the tip of the iceberg as far as this technology goes.
	Absolutely.
	Strategic perception management.
	Isn't that just wonderful?
	It's great.
	I just think that's so great.
	An unsophisticated enemy like the people on the streets of New York.
	I was going to say that.
	And I thought, you know what, I don't think I'll say that.
	Nothing personal against me.
	But they have, and then when you go into it, they have what they call the hybrid high-energy laser system.
	But when you go in here and get a close-up of this system...
	It's showing you how they could attack right between Iran and Afghanistan.
	It's hilarious.
	That's where they're going to be attacking.
	And that's where they knew they were going to be attacking back in 1999. That was published then.
	So you can see how far ahead they plan this stuff.
	I mean, they plan it 30 years ahead.
	I was looking for that page.
	Okay, when you say they're going to be attacking between Iran and...
	Afghanistan.
	That's where the pipeline is coming.
	They want that area.
	So that's why we're going to war with Iran, is what you're saying?
	Yeah, we want to clear that area so we can run the pipeline down there.
	And they're going to use...
	It sounds like you're saying they're going to use a special kind of weapon to attack them.
	Well, they could use that hybrid high-energy laser.
	You know, they've got plenty of stuff they could use.
	But it was just odd that it would be already on paper available to the public to show them where they're going to be attacking.
	What you said to us off-camera just before we started was you felt that there was going to be, I think you used the words, a nuclear war.
	Oh yeah, I have no doubt that we're going to nuke Iran.
	I'm sure that's in the plan, and Cheney certainly wants to do it.
	I don't have any inside information, but it looks to me like...
	One of the possible scenarios would be Bush gets assassinated.
	In October, Cheney becomes president and then declares martial law.
	And then something happens and where we have to attack Iran, of course.
	We won't attack Iran.
	We'll get Israel to do it.
	And they'll attack them with their nukes.
	And then we'll slap them on the wrist by saying, we're going to give you $50 billion for a rehabilitation program here so that you won't nuke anybody else.
	Psychological rehabilitation program.
	We'll give them, you know...
	Okay, but nobody's going to get away with nuking anyone.
	I mean, in other words, you're going to have China, you're going to have Russia.
	I mean...
	Basically, we're going to be in World War III at that point, right?
	Yeah, but it won't be that big.
	What they're going to do is cut the cables.
	Oh, the undersea cable thing.
	Yeah, so that there's not a lot of communications.
	So no one knows what's really happening.
	No one really knows what's happening.
	It'll be all handled on an upper level.
	All this is handled on an upper level.
	All this has been planned in...
	Communication with and an agreement with China and Russia.
	They all know what's going on.
	So it'll be, you know, just to try out new weapons.
	Well, actually, this is what, again, our Henry Deacon says.
	He says China's in on it.
	There's going to be a war with China, but they already know it's planned.
	Yeah, of course.
	And, like, everybody was ready for the Japanese Cayuga and the Chinese satellite on ATS. They said, they'll tell us what's going on.
	They'll give us the real pictures.
	And all they did was recycle old NASA pictures, you know?
	And, of course, China was very embarrassed.
	They said, these are not recycled NASA pictures, but you could go right to where, you know, yes, that was an old recycled NASA picture.
	What they're doing up there orbiting the moon.
	If they are orbiting the moon, I don't know.
	But they're certainly not taking pictures, you know, that they could use for themselves.
	Why not?
	Because they're already in on it.
	They already know what's there.
	I mean, you know, we mind them.
	So what's the MO behind doing all of this?
	I mean, why are they going to plan wars, nuclear?
	You're talking about nuclear wars where...
	You know, millions of people are going to die.
	Land is going to become uninhabitable.
	I mean, you know, this is crazy.
	That sounds like a good reason.
	Even if they want to keep a pipeline there.
	What's the point in making the land?
	I mean, you know.
	You know, they've cleaned up nuclear weapons in the past 30 years.
	They don't have that much radiation.
	Why go nuclear, though?
	I mean, it's so messy.
	Why would, I mean, you know.
	I'm not a military guy, but if they've got scalar weaponry and they've got HAARP, I mean, you know, they've got earthquakes they can cause.
	I mean, there are a lot of other things they can do besides going.
	I mean, that just seems like the nth degree of insanity.
	Why would they do it?
	You know, it's like asking when I talk about Endeavour and the space shuttle being such an outmoded method of getting to EIS and people say, well, you know, if we have all this cool stuff that you say, like, you know, satellites and anti-grav stuff and everything, why do they use the space shuttle?
	The same thing with the nuke thing.
	There's levels of...
	Secrecy levels of intelligence, you want to keep a certain segment of the people knowing, just, you know, thinking that the space shuttle is all we got, you know, and nuclear weapons is all we got, so we use those.
	It's that type of deal.
	Okay, so you're going to kill millions of people, eliminate...
	I don't think it'll be millions, but it'll be a few.
	And what is Iran going to do at that point, you know?
	Oh, they'll get all pissed off.
	I don't really know what they'll do.
	Uh-huh.
	Okay, do you have any inside contacts about this?
	Let's see, about Iran, about nuking Iran?
	Yeah.
	No.
	Okay.
	What about 2012 and a hologram of an alien invasion?
	Have you heard this scenario?
	Absolutely would be probably what they're going to do.
	They're going to put a hologram and say, oh, we're being attacked, you know, by aliens.
	We've made a deal with the ambassador.
	And he says that they feel that Earth is a threat.
	But if you all take any weapons you have and turn them in, that they'll give us a second chance.
	So at that point we have one world government because they can put everybody under the same roof and basically all the countries, you're talking not individuals bringing their rifles.
	Yeah, individuals.
	That's one of the things the aliens want is for all you guys, you know, to turn in your individual weapons so that they don't feel so much of a threat.
	But aliens, come on.
	Well, okay, so this is a scenario.
	It's a scenario where the government wants to disarm us, and the way is to put a hologram up there of an attack, and they say, we've been in communications with them.
	It's a common enemy, and it's a fake enemy.
	And you can really help us if you'll turn in all your weapons.
	Of course, by the time we've turned in all our weapons, you know, there's not much we can do when we find out it's just a scam, like 9-11 was.
	Yeah, that's a scenario.
	I'm sure that's going to happen.
	I'm sure that's going to happen.
	I'm sure that's going to happen.
	He came here the day they shot his tires out, or the one tire out.
	And, you know, he came here, he said, He's
	driving home about the time I get to Los Angeles and get my cell phone.
	I said, Bob?
	He says, where in the hell are you?
	And I said, well, I accidentally got on the wrong airplane.
	I'm in Los Angeles.
	So that was the big laugh for about five years.
	John Lear gets on the wrong airplane.
	Okay, with your ideas, and they're pretty cutting-edge, basically, do your friends agree with you?
	I don't have any friends.
	Come on, John.
	I don't believe you.
	You're one of the most charming guys we've come across.
	My good friend Bob Lazar thinks I'm nuts.
	Does he really?
	Yeah.
	He told us at the birthday party.
	And he works on UFOs.
	As a matter of fact, if he'll reach behind you, I would like to read his birthday present to me.
	It's that cup that says JL. Right.
	Just hand it over here.
	Now, Bob Lazar had this made for me, and this is my birthday present.
	Basically what this is is periodic table of elements and the periodic table of 116 is JL and it says it's a human solid and the atomic mass is 256.89 and it has all the stuff there and then it says element John Lear occurrence found primarily in Nevada.
	Physical properties.
	JL is a rare and unstable element.
	It is best known for its remarkable ability to resist common sense and facts.
	Applied liberally, JL has been known to improve the quality of lawns.
	It is also known to absorb great quantities of expensive substances.
	It is one of the most powerful money-reducing agents known to man.
	Prolonged exposure to this element can cause severe physical, mental, and financial damage.
	That's great.
	Okay, and you've told us off-camera that Bob Lazar has gone back in working for the government.
	Yeah, he works back at Los Alamos National Laboratories.
	What's he working on?
	I have no idea.
	One of the things he told us is when he went back to work, they had a short chat with him, and before they gave him his clearance, they said, Hi, Bob.
	You're not going to cause us any more problems, are you?
	And he said no.
	Well, they basically threatened him to get him to come back in, isn't that right?
	I mean, he was having all kinds of problems right before that.
	I didn't hear that part.
	Okay.
	But he's been inside for about four years.
	I think so, yeah.
	Okay.
	And you're saying that it's possible he might give interviews?
	Uh, yeah.
	Yeah, he did the Travel Channel.
	Couple years ago and just the other day did somebody else, you know, but it would be best that you did not mention my name.
	Just call him up out of the blue.
	Okay, but he's your friend, right?
	Yeah, yeah, he's a good friend.
	He came to my birthday party and it was really great.
	As I've told you, I used to have two wicker chairs here.
	In 1987, I started talking about UFOs.
	I gave a lecture at the Spring Valley Library.
	Well, it created such a ruckus here in Las Vegas.
	People were calling.
	There were people wanting to interview me.
	I mean, it just exploded.
	And, of course, it disrupted my family here because people were calling.
	Marilee eventually had my phone shut off.
	She took all my UFO files.
	I mean, it was bad.
	And so, in 1988, a guy called.
	He said, my name is Gene Huff.
	I'm a real estate appraiser and I'd like to get some of your tapes and stuff.
	I said, Gene, I'm out of it.
	You know, it's almost costing my family.
	I'm just not doing it.
	He says, okay, well, you know, if you ever want to trade some tapes, I'll trade you a real estate appraisal for it.
	And I said, Oh, wait a minute, because, you know, I needed some money.
	I said, I'll tell you what, I'll get you those tapes and you appraise my house.
	So he came over the day after that to do the measurements.
	Of course, he had no idea it was 7,700 square feet.
	He's complained ever since because he had to do such a huge house for just a couple of tapes and some information.
	Well, anyway, when he came over, he brought this guy named Bob Lazar, and he introduced him to me.
	Bob was the guy holding the end of the measuring tape.
	And he said, Bob used to work at Los Alamos National Laboratories, and he lives in town now and develops photos.
	And so I said, great, you know.
	So Gene and I are talking about UFOs, and Bob is rolling his eyes.
	He said, You guys are nuts.
	This could not be true.
	I worked at Los Alamos.
	I had a cue clearance.
	If it had been true, I would have known about it.
	I did enough snooping around there.
	So he didn't want to hear about any of this stuff.
	So anyway, that was like in June of '88.
	So over the next four or five months, Gene and I and Bob exchanged information.
	And Bob, you know, there was three or four things that pushed him over of this is totally ridiculous that it might be true.
	And one of them was in those days we knew about a secret facility at Los Alamos called YY-2.
	And my information was that it was where they held the aliens there.
	And then there was something else.
	But anyway, Bob found out, yeah, there was YYDH2, and yeah, it was way more classified than he could end it.
	And there was like three or four things.
	And anyway, in November, that was when Bob decided that, well, you know...
	I think I'll see if I can get a job up at Area 51. So he called Dr. Teller, who he knew from Los Alamos, and I think I was there when Bob talked to him.
	And Teller said, do you want to work out here at Lawrence Livermore with me or there in Nevada?
	And Bob said, I want to work at Groom Lake.
	And so Teller says, okay, well, let me get back with you.
	So then Bob had three interviews.
	Down at EG&G. And he would come up here after each interview.
	And I remember after the second interview, the first question was, do you know John Lear?
	And what do you think of John Lear?
	And Bob said, yeah, I know him.
	And I think he sticks his nose into places where it doesn't belong.
	And Bob told me what I didn't tell them was, I also like to stick my nose into places where it doesn't belong.
	So he got his third interview, and he told us, you know, he aced him, because they talked about really technical stuff.
	And he just laid it out, and he said, I did a good job.
	Anyway, the next thing I know is December 6th of 1988. Bob comes, sits down, and he says, I saw a disc today.
	And I'm writing out checks there, you know, and I'm not paying attention.
	I said, what?
	He says, I saw a disc today.
	A disc.
	Theirs or ours?
	And he said, theirs.
	I said, you went to Groom Lake?
	And he said, yeah.
	And I said, what are you doing here?
	I said, obviously, we're going to follow you.
	Why don't you just, you know, work there for a while and then come and tell us what happened?
	He says, because I have seen you take so much crap over the past six months about this.
	I'm telling you, it's real.
	I saw it.
	I touched it, you know.
	And then we spent about two hours talking about stuff.
	And it was just totally shocking.
	Okay, but tell us that story.
	I mean, we got it on the other tape, but it's just so much fun.
	Where he sits down and says, John, you'll never know what it's like.
	That was January.
	And he'd been up there two or three times, or four or five now, I don't know how many.
	And I remember January, it was a bitter cold, and I had a short shirt on like this.
	And Bob comes in and sits there and, you know, He's just on.
	He's lit.
	And he wants to talk about something, and we already knew we shouldn't talk in here.
	So we went out by the pool, and Marilee's coming this way, and she says, what are you two doing?
	We're going out to talk.
	And she's suspicious of anything anyway, so she doesn't believe that for a second, but she lets us go.
	So we went out in that little back place by this table.
	And I'm looking at him and said, what, what, what?
	He said, John, you will never know what it's like to see your first alien.
	I said, you saw one?
	You saw one?
	He said, yeah.
	I said, it couldn't have been a doll.
	It couldn't have been...
	No, it was one.
	And, you know, these days, you ask him that question, he says, well, I don't know.
	It could have been a doll.
	They were doing all these weird stuff.
	But that night...
	That's exactly what he said.
	And I said, how did it happen?
	He says, well, I was walking down the corridor.
	He said, I got a guard on each side.
	And he said, I walked by this door and there's like a 12-inch window pane and it has wires through it.
	And I looked through it and there's two guys in lab coats facing me and an alien standing up talking to them.
	Now, did I show you that picture?
	I don't think so.
	Because he drew it for me.
	Oh, really?
	Do you want me to get out?
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Yeah.
	These are a lot of stuff I get from Bob.
	For instance, here's how security clearance works.
	The lowest clearance you can get is Top Secret.
	And then above that, there's 28 levels of Top Secret crypto.
	And then above that, there's 10 levels.
	Now, these aren't the real names, except...
	The top one is majestic.
	Now each one of these are compartmentalized so that you may have top secret crypto 25, but you don't get to know all that information.
	All you get to know is What you're cleared for.
	In other words, when you get Top Secret Crypto 25, somebody doesn't come and tell you this is all the stuff that the guys at Top Secret Crypto 25 get to know.
	It's compartmentalized.
	So we had this to show that the President of the United States is like Top Secret Crypto 17. He doesn't need to know very much.
	He's a figurehead.
	He's told what to do.
	So he doesn't really need to know all this.
	It's my understanding.
	The last president that was given any kind of a briefing...
	Was President Nixon.
	Ford knew a little bit.
	Reagan knew a little bit.
	Of course, Bush knew something because he was, you know, a director of the CIA. That doesn't mean they tell the director of the CIA anything.
	He's an appointed office and they hate appointees.
	So he knew that for other reasons.
	But anyway, this is how that chart worked.
	And these are the when Bob decided not to go back to work.
	For the government, we took him into three, got three regressive hypnosis sessions, and they were Lane Keck.
	And Lane was supposed to be at my birthday party, and I don't remember why he didn't come.
	Or maybe he did come.
	I think he did come.
	We'll see on that DVD. But he did the...
	Regressions for Bob and what we tried, it was extremely interesting.
	The first one we didn't get because the tape recorder broke and Gene Hough has those on notes, but the second one, I have the second one and that's where we tried to pull the information out of and I'll tell you what here, later if you want, I have a transcript of the second one and I'll let you read it because it's extremely interesting.
	That is great.
	This is when Bob was telling me how you went forward and backward in time.
	Okay, I was going to ask you that.
	So Bob worked on time travel, didn't he?
	He didn't work on it.
	He was briefed on it.
	See, when he went up there...
	Because if he knew Teller, he must have...
	And he worked at Los Alamos.
	He only knew Teller because he met him...
	That day in front of Los Alamos when Teller was giving the speech and Bob was on the cover of the Los Alamos Times with his jet car.
	And he walked up to Dr. Teller and said, I'm the guy you're reading about.
	And Dr. Teller said, oh, really neat.
	And they had a little chat.
	That's the only place he knew him from.
	He didn't work with him.
	But he did work at Los Alamos and he did listen to Teller talk.
	So Bob, when he went up to As for, he said, they asked, you have to choose what you want to do.
	You can't have a little bit of it all.
	You have to choose, you know, do you want to be, you know, work on this or that, and Bob wanted to work on reverse engineering the propulsion.
	That was his job.
	But he got briefed on all this, and what he's showing me here is how you go forward in time, which is just...
	Exerting a strong gravitational pull, and how you go aft.
	And he started drawing it like that, and then he put it securely.
	I don't know.
	So anyway, these were the...
	Bob Lazar, 1987, he was drawing me the different shapes of vehicles that were at S4.
	And this one, what he's doing here is he's showing me one had been hit by a projectile.
	And when I first...
	Let me see here.
	When I first started showing Bob the pictures of the moon and showing him stuff that was on there, I was saying, look at this, look at this vapor and this and that.
	And he kind of looked at me real skeptical.
	And he said, you know, John, I walked out the door, and then walking out of the door of his home, he says, you know, John, if any of this stuff is true, I'm going to have to kill myself.
	And so I said, you know, why don't I get that on paper, Bob?
	So I had him sign this thing that says, I, Bob Lazar, promise to kill myself if any of John's moon stuff is true.
	Signed, Bob Lazar, August 23rd, 1996. Well, what happened is...
	When I finally got somebody, you know, when I ordered that photograph from NASA, you know, they sent me the negative.
	It was a, you know, it was a 16 by 20 negative.
	Right.
	And it took me, you know, five or six years before the technology got even to Las Vegas to make a positive that size negative.
	So when I got it, I took it over to Bob's house and there's a little one right here.
	This was the first I got and I took it over to Bob and he scanned it.
	And those are the scans that went on ATS. And so up here, I'll let you do a close-up later, there's obviously what looks like a parking garage.
	So Bob looks at it and looks at it and he says, yeah, I gotta admit, that is not natural.
	That is something.
	And so I said, you know, Bob, we've been friends for a long time and, you know, I know you're a man of your honor.
	And you have agreed that if any of my moon stuff was true that you would kill yourself.
	And he says, well, is there any way I can get out of it?
	And I said, yeah, yeah.
	As a matter of fact, why don't you just sign this statement here?
	And this is August 5th, 1998. This is two years later.
	It says, I, Bob Lazar, in return for not having to honor my commitment to kill myself, if any of John's Moonstruck is true, to freely admit that the object in the crate of Copernicus on the moon, saved as apple crate, is a box.
	Which I don't know what is doing there.
	Signed Bob Lazar.
	Now, that's the best I could get him to do.
	But that is really the infamous parking garage on ATS that I show everybody.
	And people say, no, I don't see a parking garage.
	But I'll show you the enlargements later.
	But anyway, these are some more.
	This is the original drawing he did on how the Matter reactor worked.
	And this is how he showed me the arches were in the...
	And that was what year?
	This is all between December and March of...
	December of 1988, March of 1899. And these are the notes I kept.
	Meeting with Bob Lazar, November 2nd, 1988. Because I typed up this stuff.
	I see.
	Now, did he draw an alien for you or not?
	Yeah.
	You got it there?
	We'd love to see that.
	I realize that's what we were going to get this.
	Now, the original is blue, and I'm sure it's here somewhere, but this is the original drawing he made me, drawn by Bob Lazar, December 1908, January 1908, this came here at S4. Position of gray in relation to two scientists in lab coats.
	Size, orientation, and construction of window through which he saw scientists and the gray.
	He was scribbling all over.
	This is the test site and where S4 was.
	This was the length of the hangars, 360 feet, and each bay was 40 feet long.
	This was how the...
	These saucers sat in the hangar.
	And this drawing right here is the two, and this is what Bob drew, these are the two lab technicians and that's the little alien facing the other way.
	And he drew the door and he drew that wire going through the window.
	He said he looked through that and saw those guys right there.
	That's great.
	Did they ever have any exposure like communication with them?
	Yeah, three times.
	At least three times.
	Really?
	And I'll just show this because this was on the back side of this paper.
	This is Aurora and this was the airplane we have that cruises at 250,000 feet and goes Mach 12 and that was in 1988 and this is what it looked like when he stepped down from the Boeing 737 when he walked down the ramp this way that thing was parked So he was looking up the tail and he said it was absolutely enormous.
	He said there was two giant squares where the exhaust was and he said a man would look like a little doll standing in those.
	He's looking at it from behind.
	So he doesn't know exactly.
	He just assumed that that's what it looked like in plan view.
	The three times that he saw the alien was the first time was when they gave him the pine-smelling fluid.
	And what they did, it's really interesting, when Bob came in here the very first day And he said, I saw a disc.
	And he used to wear a ring, and I forget which finger it was on.
	I said, OK, now listen to me, Bob.
	They're going to give you some drugs to make you forget what you're doing.
	So what I want you to do is when they take you in to give you the drugs, I want you to take your ring off.
	Subtly and put it on your other hand.
	You won't remember, but when you come up to see me, I'll see it and you'll know you already take the drugs.
	He said they already did that today.
	I said they did and he described this elaborate drug test of how they took a needle and they put a rectangle on his...
	Scratched a rectangle on his arm and then made lines like this and lines like that and then they'd take stuff and they'd put into each little square like that.
	And then they took him into a room and he said the room was just like a regular doctor's office on the couch and he laid on the couch and he said there was a screen blocking something and he said he knew the gray was behind it.
	Then there was a military guy with an M16. And a doctor and a nurse.
	And they had him drink the pine-smelling fluid, and he drank the cup, and immediately he felt, you know, dizzy.
	And he said, he described exactly what he felt like.
	He said he felt like he was in a well that was 100 feet deep, that his arms were 100 feet long, and he was just holding on to the sides of the well, just barely with his fingertips.
	That's what he felt like.
	The briefing of the clearance with which he was being given.
	So they'd say, you know, they'd read a sentence and say, and I understand that, you know, I am being briefed.
	And at the end, the soldier would take the M16 and poke it into his stomach like that.
	And he said, it really hurt.
	And each different phase of the clearance, the soldier would take the M16 and poke it into his solar plexus.
	So, in the tapes that Lane Keck did, when we were trying to get the information out, you know, they told him a lot of really interesting stuff, and when we would get to, you know, what's going to happen in the future, you know, he'd say, I'm not supposed to talk about that.
	And then Lane would try to work around it with some subtly, and Bob would grab it and say, no, I can't, it hurts.
	Oh, wow.
	So, like a programming thing.
	Right.
	So, did he ever do the ring?
	The ring trick?
	No, because he had already done it.
	But he had to keep going to work.
	See, the reason he quit was because when we got caught, he invited us up to see the flying saucer flights on March 21st, 1989. And I have that tape right here and I'll show you.
	It's only nine minutes long.
	We took that Celestron 8 and we saw...
	You know, he told us when it was going to fly, and me and Gene are right there, and I focused in on it, and I saw a flying saucer, you know, and it was, you know, tilted about 40 degrees, and it was gold, and it had the stuff radiating off, and I said, quick, Gene, quick, take a look!
	And as I stepped back, I hooked my foot around the thing, so...
	That came up at the birthday party because everybody at the birthday party was supposed to tell a John Lear story.
	And that was Bob's story.
	Okay, well, also the story about getting stopped on the road and the guns in the car.
	That was when the County Sheriff stopped us.
	That was the third time we got caught.
	But the point of that story was that when they took him in the next morning to Indian Springs, which is the center of all the security, and took him out of the car with a gun in his ear, they said, When we gave you this clearance, it meant you were not supposed to tell all your friends about the flying saucers.
	Now, do you want to work here or not?
	And that's when Bob was noncommittal, because the last two flights he had taken up to Groom Lake, he could remember walking up the steps and walking down, but he couldn't remember.
	Anything in between.
	And he said he didn't want to work on a program like that.
	Well, what about the Tall Whites?
	Because from what I understand, Charles Hall talks about the Tall Whites being out at Indian Wells.
	That area?
	You know anything about that?
	No.
	Bob ever talk about the Tall Whites?
	No.
	Only the Grays.
	And he only had the three times.
	The once was when the pine smelling fluid.
	And the once was seeing them in the In the room, and then once when George Knapp hired Tabernetti to come up and do the lie detector test, George rented a room at Cedar's Palace,
	and Bob and Gene Huff got there early, and they knew the room, and so they pulled the door open, and Gene pulled the door open, Bob looked inside, and he turned white and nearly fainted, and he walked over and sat down in a chair.
	Gene says, what in the heck is the matter with you?
	And Bob said, I just had a flashback.
	He said, I remember.
	Talking with the gray.
	And what had happened is when they opened the door, the way that Tavernetti had set up there, it just wasn't very much light.
	It was one single table with a chair on one side and a chair on the other side and some equipment there.
	It triggered this reaction of Bob when he was reading the briefings and the gray was across from him.
	And it was such an overwhelming experience of when you first, you know, are in the presence of a gray when...
	You know, you're used to asking a question and then having somebody respond, but when you're talking to an alien, they pick it up from your mind, and they're answering before you can get out of your mouth, and it gets confusing.
	And it was just an overwhelming experience.
	So that was the other time that Bob had the...
	Now, do you think he'll go on camera with this stuff?
	I doubt it, but, you know, you never know what he's going to do.
	Never know what he's going to do.
	So let me look through here.
	This is the page where we were trying to think of the guy he worked with, Castroloni.
	But I think we finally determined what the guy's name was, and George Knapp has it, but I don't know what...
	So is George Knapp working for the agency?
	No, George Knapp works for Channel 8. Oh, you mean Undercover?
	Yeah.
	You know, I don't know.
	George knows a lot of stuff.
	And he had me on...
	A couple months ago.
	And what he was doing was a story on Sandia.
	Sandia is the most secret, not the most secret, it's the secret base here that replaced Groom Lake Area 51. And it's out on the Paiute Mesa.
	I got a map of it here.
	They started building it in 1980 and finished it in 1987. So it's now 20 years old, about, you know...
	Four or five thousand people work out there.
	I mean, it's a huge underground base.
	Absolutely enormous.
	I mean, there's great big cylinders of offices and stuff that go, you know, a mile deep.
	And then out on the test site, there's a couple of runways with all new hangars there and everything.
	It's just a massive operation.
	So when George went up there to film it and he couldn't find it and...
	But anyway, I'll show you.
	As a matter of fact, I have it here on DVD. I'll show you the exact thing that we did.
	I told him that one of the interesting things was that how do we get the people out there?
	They can't drive out there because it's too far.
	Can't have that many people on Highway 93 or 95 because we'll be exposing that stuff.
	We can't put them on the 737s because they're already full now, you know, and we can't put on more airplanes going out there.
	So what they did is they built a high-speed train.
	It goes from Sandia down to Vegas.
	And what they did is they put the stops under two of the major hotels so that the guys, you know, just look like gamblers or, you know, hotel guests walking in there.
	And they go in there, they open a door, do the card key, and go down, you know, to the thing.
	And it was great how they do that.
	Which hotels, you know?
	Yeah, but I'm not going to say.
	That's great.
	So I've got to show you.
	Have you ever taken the train?
	No.
	You know where it is, you know.
	I've been meaning to go down there, you know, but I try to stay out of trouble.
	Here's the Los Alamos monitor that Dr. Teller was reading when Bob was...
	Okay, yeah.
	That's great stuff.
	Yeah, I have a friend, Jim Goodall, and he said, I'm coming down there, we're going to go up to the test site, and I said, you know, I used to do that stuff, but I'm still alive, so, you know, it's all the same to you.
	I don't want to do it.
	Here's three things that I wrote down that were important.
	I came up with the speed of time, and Bob said, you know, I told him what it was, and he said, that's correct, but he said, who cares?
	And what I said was the speed of time is directly proportional to the amplitude of the gravitational flux.
	In other words, the speed of time is dependent on gravity.
	And Bob told me it is theorized that there is one black hole for every galaxy.
	It's theorized that every black hole has its own galaxy.
	HIV, the protein code, is on the virus itself.
	And the recycle time of the gravity amplifiers is 10 milliseconds.
	Now, the HIV, have we talked about HIV? No, but we can definitely go there.
	AIDS was invented by a Navy surgeon named R.M. Donner, and when Bob read the...
	When he read the briefing up at S-4, one of the things that impressed him is that in the paper, all the briefings he read were, you know, 50, 100 pages with a blue cover, and they were scattered on this table, and he could take each one.
	And what it was was that as he progressed his clearance, these briefings would, let's say this is one briefing, it would be stapled here.
	And as his clearance And if they progressed, you know, they would unstaple a few more pages.
	But anyway, on the briefing of AIDS, and I have the, it's probably in here, because I wrote a whole thing on what he told us.
	It was developed to get rid of a certain segment or number of human, but it was developed by R.M. Donner, and it has the exact cure for AIDS, and it has to do with the cucumber Trichosanthus and it has to do with the cucumber Trichosanthus keralawi, which was only grown in China.
	We tried to get it out of China, three attempts, but however they know, somebody knows, and each one had been cooked either by a microwave or something as it passed through customs, so it's impossible to get it out.
	But I'll read you the exact cure and how it works.
	Well, we have a contact right now who says he worked on that.
	on engineering AIDS virus in Africa.
	Possible, but it wasn't in Africa.
	It was here, and it was released in Africa, but it was developed up at S4. So Bob and I looked for R.M. Donner.
	We found him.
	He lived in Santa Fe.
	And he was retired, and we went to see him several times because Bob then had the contract for repairing the alpha probes.
	What we used to do is we used to drive to Los Alamos from here.
	It was a 16-hour drive and Bob had a friend there and it used to take us like 24 hours to rebuild all these Alpha Probes.
	There was like 300 of them.
	And we'd clean them all up and then rewire them and then put the aluminum tape on them and then we'd drive back to Las Vegas.
	What's an Alpha Probe?
	They scan for radiation of the people that go in and work in Los Alamos.
	And Bob had the contract.
	So we did that about every six weeks.
	So what we do is we try to, we knew where Donner worked and we go there and we missed him every time and then we finally got his home address and we went to his home and we could never catch him home.
	Now whether he was not answering the door or whether he's not really there.
	Or whether we didn't really have an address.
	I think we did.
	We never met up with him.
	Now, when Bob started to make some money on the photo business and the alpha probes, we actually went on the airline to go to Albuquerque and we'd rent a car to go up to Los Alamos.
	So this one day...
	And the same things happened on this one day, and I told this in the John Lear stories.
	I'm going to tell this all myself.
	So I have trouble recognizing Earth people.
	For some reason, I just can't, you know, if I don't, I haven't known them for 25, and even if I do know them for 25 years, it's hard for me to pick them out of a crowd.
	So what we would do is to go to Albuquerque, Bob would buy a ticket.
	On Southwest.
	And I jump seat with my airline ID. So one morning we get ready to go.
	We're going to leave at seven o'clock and I go to the airport and I don't want to get on the airplane unless he's on it.
	And I walked up and down at all the passengers and looked very carefully.
	I couldn't find Bob.
	So I didn't want to get on if he wasn't there and I couldn't reach him at home.
	So when everybody got on, I asked the flight attendant, I said, hey, I'm going to jump seat on, but I want to be sure a friend of mine, could you announce?
	We asked Bob Lazar to ring his call button.
	Well, of course, what I had forgotten is on this particular flight going to Albuquerque, that's all the Sandia and other guys that go on this flight.
	So when the flight attendant would, would Bob Lazar please ring his call button?
	Of course, the whole airplane, everybody starts laughing because they think it's a joke.
	That's great.
	So anyway, he rang his call button.
	I realized he was there, so I got in the jump seat and went to Albuquerque.
	We got, rented a car, drove up to Los Alamos, and for some reason this day, everything went perfect.
	I mean, we just slid through that thing in about eight hours.
	And so we realized that we could drive back, get on the airplane, and have dinner at our favorite Italian restaurant called Parma's.
	So we pack all this stuff up and write the bill.
	We go tearing down the mountain from Los Alamos to Albuquerque and down the freeway.
	We screech into the rent-a-car place, jump right on the van that's just pulling out, get to the airport.
	Bob runs up, you know, and gives his ticket.
	I run up, you know, and sign my, you know, jump seat, you know.
	Run in.
	They close the door.
	I run, sit down.
	And I heard the captain say, welcome to Southwest Airlines 304 on our flight today to Los Angeles.
	And I realized that I had rung down the wrong gangway and got on the wrong airplane.
	So meanwhile, Bob is on the airplane waiting for me and he sees him shut the door and he can't figure out where I went.
	So all the way to Las Vegas, you know, he says, well, maybe he got into the cockpit and...
	And I didn't see him.
	So they get to Las Vegas, and it takes much longer to get to Los Angeles, so I couldn't call him.
	And he gets to Las Vegas, and he goes up in the cockpit, and I'm not there.
	And he cannot understand how we could have been so close, and I didn't get on the airplane.
	So he's driving home about the time I get to Los Angeles and get my cell phone.
	I said, Bob, he says, Where the hell are you?
	And I said, well, I accidentally got on the wrong airplane.
	I'm in Los Angeles.
	So that was the big laugh for about five years that John Lear gets on the wrong airplane.
	The information that Bob got up at S4 was AIDS is a virus that is protected by the protein coat on the RNA preventing the antibodies, the T4 cells, of the immune system from detecting and eliminating it.
	The alleged cure for AIDS lies in the excrement of the white fungus that's grown from the Chinese cucumber, Trichosanthus keralauri.
	This excrement, which develops after about two or three weeks, is separated with hydrazine sulfate and an acidification process which dissolves the protein coat on the RNA and exposes the nucleus of the virus that's detected by the antibodies of the immune system.
	Regardless of how weak the immune system is, the virus will be destroyed.
	No more than 20 cc dose per 36-hour period should be administered.
	No antibiotics And I mentioned here, over the last 20 years, I've been parting to several attempts to get samples of the Trachycosanthus Kerala out of China, but all have met with failure, the last samples having been cooked during departure procedures.
	Now, the October surprise is in 19...
	In 1980, when Reagan and Bush were running against Carter and Mondale, as you know, the hostages were still in Iran, in Tehran, and then Bush took an airplane to Paris to meet not with The Khomeini,
	but a representative of the Khomeini, and the deal was if the Khomeini would delay the release of the hostages until Reagan's inauguration, that the Reagan-Bush administration would supply him, the Iranian regime,
	unlimited guns and ammunition throughout their administration, which would go from 1980 till 1988. Part in that was to deliver those guns and ammunition from Tel Aviv to Tehran.
	The reason I brought this up is that big sheet of papers over there is the details of who was flying and how they pulled the whole thing off.
	The way they pulled it off is Bush left Saturday night.
	On a back 111 jet which only took about six or seven hours to get there.
	He only spent about four or five hours in the meeting and then he was flown back in an SR-71 from a base in France to McGuire Air Force Base and it only took an hour and 14 minutes.
	That way he was able to show up for a tennis appointment that he had on Sunday and that the press would have not known of the...
	of the lapse in time or the trip and as it turned out they were elected and they supplied these guns and ammunition and that was you know part of the Iran-Contra but Congress never went back as far farther than 1985 to find out when it originally started and when I moved to Egypt in 1981 that was going to be my job was to take those arms and ammunition from From Tel Aviv to
	Tehran.
	They were coming into Tel Aviv from Zaragoza, our Air Force base in Spain, and Mossad was handling the whole thing.
	I never did fly a flight, and the reason was the first airplane in was an Argentinian CL-44, and what they wanted to do was use an old Turbopop airplane to be sure everything went fine and there were going to be no problems.
	And for some reason it got shot down on its way out.
	And it got shot down over Russia about 40 miles south of Yerevan, which is well inside Russia.
	And the Mossad couldn't figure out how.
	The pilots got off course.
	They were on their way out.
	They had dropped a load or already dumped the arms and ammunition off.
	They finally figured out that what must have happened is the pilots were intercepted by the Russian MiGs who knew what was going on and didn't like it.
	And the pilots thought, well, you know, might as well follow them because we've got nothing on board.
	They can't prove anything.
	And then as soon as they got them over Russia, just shot their ass down, which was a message to Mossad, hey, we don't want this to go on.
	So that big sheath of papers, you know, was the history behind the...
	October Surprise, there were two books, one, Gary Sick and Barbara Honaker, each wrote books about it.
	Congress went as far as to actually launch an official investigation in 1990, but it was all covered up because, you know, nobody wanted to go back that far, hear any more stories about that thing.
	But the hostage did spend, see, October, November, December, an extra four months there.
	So Reagan could be elected.
	Right.
	Incredible stuff.
	And a lot of people know this story, but you know, it's been, what, 30 years and pretty much everybody has found it.
	The only reason I brought it up is because I'm putting that history there of who the pilots were.
	What about, what do you know, anything about the Manoa, the recent incident with the Manoa Air Force Base and the weapons that were, the nuclear?
	That smells to high heaven.
	I followed that on ATS. It was very, very thorough.
	It was one of my favorite threads.
	It went on forever.
	And we had some guys at ATS that really knew what they were talking about.
	And that was extremely interesting.
	It had to be Cheney.
	It couldn't have been anybody else that authorized it.
	And it was one of the most double-dealing instances I've ever seen.
	What would you say it was a setup for, though?
	Why'd they do it?
	You know, that's the question.
	Why did they have nuclear weapons already in Europe?
	Why did they need to steal them?
	And why did they need to fly them from North Dakota or wherever it was, South Dakota, across the United States?
	I mean, what was the point?
	It was crazy.
	There is no point.
	Well, there is a point, but I don't know what it is.
	But that episode was extremely interesting.
	I'm sure, you know, one day we'll find out.
	You know, we'll say, oh, that's what it was all about, but I don't know, but that was really...
	It's Minot.
	Yeah, Minot, North Dakota.
	That's the French pronunciation.
	We Americans call it Minot here.
	I see.
	Okay.
	I'm kidding you.
	Okay, so where are we going next, John?
	What do you have for us?
	I don't know.
	While we're figuring about where we're going next, I just ordered this book.
	It just accidentally came up there.
	It's called The Gravitational Force of the Sun by Perry Spalter.
	It was written in 1993. And basically, what it says here, this book is a serious challenge to Newton's law of universal gravitation that is presently formulated.
	And I'm just, you know, this far in it.
	And basically, why that interests me...
	It's because Newton did have some ideas about the moon, along with, throughout history, about 36 other people who thought there was gravity on the moon, there was atmosphere, and there was people up there.
	But each one got gently, the information got gently suppressed.
	Well, we have bases up there.
	That's really what we've been told.
	No question about that.
	We have bases on Mars.
	You know, the secret astronaut corps has visited every planet, most of the planets, and much farther than that.
	We've been to other solar systems.
	People, when we talk about other planets, say, well, it's too hot in Venus.
	No, that's bullshit.
	The sun is an electromagnetic sphere.
	It's not a nuclear reactor.
	And it doesn't radiate heat as such.
	It radiates electromagnetism.
	And each planet has its own filtering system.
	And so the filtering system around each planet determines what the temperature is.
	So temperature on Venus is much like Earth, so it is on Mars, so it is on Pluto, so the same on Mercury.
	There's people just like us and every single one of the planets.
	The planets that you hear about as being...
	There's giant gases like Saturn and Neptune.
	There's only one gas giant in our solar system and that's NASA NASA. That's the only gas giant we have.
	All the rest of the planets people live on.
	Okay, so what do you think?
	They're being shrouded?
	We're being suppressed.
	The information is being suppressed.
	We're not allowed to.
	We don't want to know about any of that.
	The people that Hoagland talk about have taken over and they consider space there personally theirs.
	And they don't want to share it with anyone.
	They have technology that we wouldn't have to pay for gas or electricity right this single minute.
	But they don't want to share it with us.
	It's only for the elite.
	And we're not included there.
	We can go to war and be subjects for weapons and tests and stuff like that, but we are not going to share in that technology.
	But out there there's a fantastic universe, fantastic set of planets.
	It's really interesting out there.
	I want to ask you a few questions.
	Basically, on behalf of the people who are watching this video, we're asking these questions on their behalf.
	First of all, I want to say that our source, Henry Deacon, told me personally, I don't think this is on our site, because for me it felt outlandish.
	He said that there's life on every planet in the solar system.
	He looked me in the eye and he said, you may well not believe this, but I promise you it's true.
	Venus is not as hot as they want you to believe.
	He said the Sun doesn't work the way that they teach you in school.
	He said a whole bunch of stuff that corroborates what you're saying.
	Now, he was on the inside.
	He's worked in deep black projects all over the place and a number of establishments.
	And so his source comes from briefing documents, conversations with other physicists, and so on and so forth.
	Where do you get your information from here?
	Because this is so...
	Extraordinary and way off the end of the spectrum that people need to know how you figured this out or who's told you this or what your sources are?
	Specifically the Sun, that came from a document in the Branson Files.
	Branton?
	Branton Files.
	Okay, so have you ever met Branton?
	No, but we used to talk a lot, and I'm not sure whether I ever met him face to face, but his name is what?
	His real name?
	I forget his real name.
	Anyway, I think it's Dave something, but anyway, we used to be real close, and then he got sick for a while, and I don't know what he does, but his information is so interesting, and I have no reason to believe that most of it's not true.
	Have you read the brand files?
	Oh, yeah, absolutely.
	They're lengthy.
	I have a...
	I mean, he's the one who really publicized the Dulce base information big time in those files.
	And you're familiar with all of that, right?
	The whole Dulce story started in 1987 when me, Linda Howe, Tom Adams, and several others met in Crestone, Colorado.
	To discuss the state of UFOs.
	And during that meeting, it was about three or four days, and Tom Adams walked over to me and said, handed me a note, and it'll turn up eventually, but I don't have it right now.
	And the note was from him, from who I call Mr. X, in Henderson, Nevada, and told him about that...
	He had a friend that worked at an underground base in New Mexico that the walls, that the halls went on forever, tile walls, and a little bit of the stuff.
	And Tom handed him, he says, John, I don't have time to go out there and research this.
	Would you look into it?
	And I said, sure.
	So when I got back, and before I got back, me and Linda Howe went in my truck all throughout New Mexico.
	We stopped and talked to Ernie Edwards.
	Who was the, you know, the key figure in the Bennewet steel.
	And then she and I drove down through Corona.
	And to see Clifford Stone and she and I took that road that goes from Corona over to the main highway down to Roswell and we're gonna find the Roswell Ranch and we get to the turnoff and there's 30 dead cows there.
	And it was crazy and so they weren't they didn't have the classic mutilations but they were dead and we talked to the farmer there and he said oh yeah there's some kind of a...
	Virus going around, and I forget what the whole story was, but none of it made any sense.
	And we went down, interviewed Clifford Stone, and then I eventually drove back to Las Vegas and met with Mr. X. And Mr. X started telling me about Dulcy, about the guard that had witnessed the atrocities that were going on there and didn't agree with them.
	And had decided to escape.
	And he escaped with allegedly seven minutes of videotape that showed the hallway, 25 black and white photos, and 100 pages of information.
	Now we're told this is buried on top of a mountain and it's inaccessible.
	I'll get to that.
	And that guy is Thomas Costello, is that correct?
	Thomas Costello.
	So Mr. X at Metcon said I was very good friends with her, and when he escaped, he made six of these boxes.
	And what he did is he gave a box to each one of his friends, and Mr. X was one of them, and Mr. X took me down to Dolan Springs where he hid his box on the top of a mountain.
	Now, I didn't go to the top of the mountain or see exactly where it was, but he showed me, you know, where it was generally.
	So we get back and I talk to Mr. X over a period of three or four months and eventually he shows me some pencil drawings that he drew from the original photographs.
	Those became the infamous Dulce papers and I have the originals right here that I drew from those pencil drawings.
	And so I drew them.
	And what are they drawings of?
	Of the interior of Dulce.
	I see.
	Well, I don't know if we've seen them or not, but can we get those on camera?
	Do they contain any pictures of aliens?
	No, they just show the lab and all the hookups of the bags and everything.
	Are those drawings that were published in Matrix 2?
	Right, right.
	Matrix 1, they were showing.
	And the way that Matrix happened is...
	When I was getting into all this, a guy kept knocking on the door, John Grace, and, hey, I'd like to talk to you.
	And that was the time when I was having so much trouble with Merrily.
	And I kept saying, you know, don't come here.
	I don't want to talk about it.
	Finally, he came in, and we developed a long relationship of collaborating on the information.
	And Matrix 1, every page came off that desk.
	I wish I had that book.
	My mom passed away, and there was one left that she had in mint condition, and I gave it to one of my nieces.
	So I don't have an original Matrix 1. I have an original Matrix 2, and now it's up to Matrix 5. Anyway, John Grace was a really interesting guy.
	He did a hell of a lot of research.
	He worked for Nellis Air Force Base, and one day during this period, like late 87, he wrote a Kind of a state of the research where we were at as far as what we had found out.
	And he wrote it.
	He wanted to get it out, but he didn't want to use his name.
	So he wanted to suggest a name.
	And I said, well, why don't you call it Krill, K-R-I-L-L, because the Pentagon dealt with an alien back in Krill, C-R-L-L-L. And he said, okay.
	And then he came up with, out of the blue, the initials OH. It became the OH Krill papers.
	And we weren't trying to shine anybody on.
	We weren't trying to put any false information out.
	It was just what we thought the state of the art was then.
	And John wanted to know, and we made up that name.
	So later it became a full-fledged disaster because...
	Bill Cooper started coming up then, and Bill Cooper and I did several video interviews, and one of them was PM Magazine in Salt Lake City.
	And during that interview, they asked about the Krill papers, and Bill Cooper said he'd seen them in the Navy 20 years prior, when John Grace and I had...
	I dreamed them up like two months prior to that.
	And the other thing was, there was a paragraph out then talking about the Excalibur weapon, and the Excalibur weapon was a weapon that the military were developing that would penetrate a thousand feet of soil.
	And Bob Lazar had written that like two months prior, and Bill Cooper had said he'd seen that in the Navy 20 years prior.
	So I took Bill Cooper out in that dining room and said, What in the hell are you talking about?
	John Grace and I wrote that Krill Papers.
	And Bob Lazar wrote the Excalibur.
	He said, well, that may be, but I saw him in the Navy.
	So that's when Bill Cooper and I started to split because I couldn't understand why he was saying stuff like that.
	And then it became known as UFO disease.
	And UFO disease is when you get so popular in the UFO field and you don't have anything new to say, you make it up.
	Okay, well, let me ask you something, because as far as I know, the Matrix books are written by Val Valerian, who is John Grace, right?
	Right.
	Okay, so Matrix 5 talks about Planet X, I'm told.
	I've got Matrix 5, and I remember seeing Planet X referred to in there, but, you know, basically, I was just told that it reminded, I guess, that it talks about Planet X. I mean, it certainly talks about everything in there.
	And you say Planet X is a complete fallacy, so are you still in touch with John Grace?
	Do you know why he says it's true?
	No, I don't know.
	John Grace, you know, I ordered Matrix 5, and I read the first 30 pages, and I couldn't get any further.
	So, there may be a Planet X, there may be a Nibiru, but it's not going to destroy Earth in 2012. Okay.
	Huh.
	What about, what about meteors, you know?
	Aimed at this planet that are heading in.
	We'll be protected.
	You don't have to worry about that.
	And by what?
	The guys who take care of us.
	Which is, are you talking aliens?
	Yeah, aliens.
	Do we have any idea which aliens are protecting us?
	Or do you?
	Probably the grays.
	The grays are responsible for what we call the physical body, which Bob read up at the test site are the containers.
	They refer to it as containers.
	That's their job.
	They see that everything goes okay and the container contains the souls.
	The grays can change souls from body to body.
	Their responsibility is not the soul.
	That's somebody else, and I don't know who that person is.
	The greys are just here responsible for the containers.
	That's why there would never, unless it was under extremely unusual circumstances, would a meteor ever hit the earth.
	There'd be no catastrophe like that.
	Let's keep that thought, and I'm going to have something to eat here.
	Thank you, darling.
	and that was really great.
	I hear myself and I say, "Bob, there's nobody to turn yourself into.
	Now stop it!" So these are the original Dulce papers.
	They were written in pencil by Mr. X who lives in Henderson.
	And the reason he wrote them down was so that I could distribute them.
	And there's a page of information and then there's the drawings here that you can see here of the lab.
	And the vats with the human meat in it, and the test tubes growing the humans, and this is the womb with the different humans, and the different vats.
	Where did the drawings come from?
	Mr. X copied them from the photographs that Thomas Castillo gave to him to hide.
	Okay.
	Mr. X got one of the boxes.
	One of the boxes was hidden in the mountains near Dolan Springs, which is southeast of here on your way to Kingman.
	So, the deal was, they were after, oh, and then I took these and what I did was typed it up and made these black and white drawings from the pencil drawing, because you couldn't see the pencil drawings very clearly.
	So, you see, you have The vat here, and the little thing that comes down, it says, seems to keep water vibrated.
	It was an amber liquid, and it gives the approximate dimensions.
	It says, looks like large pieces of pale meat in cloudy waters submerged, not floating.
	Each one of these is the description of one of the photos that Castillo gave Mr. X. Here's a picture of the cameras on the doorway to scores of tanks or more.
	Now I forget, what happened to Thomas Costello?
	I'm going to tell you.
	So here's a picture of these wombs are hooked into machines, wombs submerged in sort of yellow liquid, looks thicker than water, and these humans are growing there.
	Creatures float in amber-colored water.
	Womb is grayish globs of yellow, white in grooves.
	Dozens of creatures in each womb.
	Can't count the tanks, maybe scores or a hundred.
	These wombs were two feet vertically and three to four feet horizontally.
	these creatures.
	Okay, keep going.
	No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
	We're okay.
	I've got two cameras on him, hon. The creatures, if you took them out of this womb, here's what it would look like if they placed them in your hands.
	They have three fingers, two toes.
	They're not human.
	The color is wrong.
	Looks blue-gray.
	They have a very thin skin, and they're about six inches high.
	These are what the test tubes look like.
	The room light was pink-purple, bright in some areas.
	Hundreds of these various stages of growth.
	In other words, these tubes, these things that are growing here, are in various stages of growth.
	Wispy hair.
	Not quite a nose.
	The mouth looks sealed.
	The womb looks gray.
	Veins look dark gray creature.
	White, pale eyes, dark lids.
	Can't find a gender.
	Two toes, three fingers.
	Liquid amber color, not completely clear.
	Looks like the glass tube is about five foot high.
	Then, this is various information.
	We don't know what that is, but that was in the papers.
	So, Castillo took, Leonard Costello took, made six of these, five or six of these waterproof wrapped in plastic containers, and they had 25 black and white photos,
	videotape with no dialogue, and a set of papers that included technical information of the alleged jointly occupied U.S. alien facility one kilometer beneath the Archuleta Mesa near Dulce, New Mexico.
	Several persons were given the above package to hold for safekeeping.
	Most of those given the package were shown what the package contained, but were not technically oriented or knew very little about what they were looking at.
	So Mr. X was given one, hit it, and the deal was Thomas was on the run, and they'll see, or any of those operations send out bounty hunters.
	And these are like bikers or stuff that go find somebody for money.
	And they're very serious about their occupation, and usually it doesn't take very long to go get somebody.
	But anyway, Thomas told Mr. X, I'm going to be here every four months, just to show you that I'm alive or I'll be in contact.
	If I miss two four-month contacts or eight months, two in a row, then you can release these papers.
	So this all happened in 1987. And I think 1993 or 94 was when Castillo missed his connections.
	In other words, he missed the contact at the first four months and the second at eight months.
	So it was decided to go and get the box.
	I didn't go myself, but I believe Bill Hamilton did.
	I think he was one of them.
	And I think Tal was another one.
	But I'm not sure.
	I don't remember.
	It's been, you know, it was 20 years ago, and I don't remember.
	But I do remember that it was a serious effort that they made at least six expeditions in to find this box, and it was never found.
	This was at the top of the mountain, is that correct?
	It wasn't at the top.
	It was, I don't think it was at the top.
	It was hidden about halfway up.
	There was like a spell or a black magic, you know.
	Some kind of spell cast on that whole area around the box.
	It could have been.
	I do know that there is nothing secret that any of us do.
	We're always on film or video or some kind of camera.
	Have been for 40 years.
	There's absolutely nothing we can hide.
	Nothing we think or say or do is secret.
	Meaning you guys are surveilled because you were involved?
	No, everybody.
	Every person on the face of the earth.
	Right.
	There's nothing that anybody does is secret.
	And the Navy, you know, some of the stuff that Linda Howe came out with, as a matter of fact, I had a chance to talk with her the other day.
	She had found some papers in her garage that looked pretty technical.
	And she said she had got them in the late 80s, but she had never read them.
	And so now that she had taken the time to read them, she thought they had a lot of value.
	And were they mine?
	And I said, no, they don't sound like mine.
	And she said, okay, well, I'm going to post them.
	So she posted them on her website.
	And somebody on ATS says, hey, man, you've got to look at this.
	Or maybe not on ATS. I think it was gone by then.
	It was somebody, like, on Open Minds.
	And I said, okay, I'll take a look.
	So I went over there.
	And it was, you know, you have to pay...
	You know, you have to pay a fee to get on her stuff.
	So I couldn't get in, so I wrote her and I said, Linda, I'm a little short at this time.
	Can you let me look at them?
	I never heard from her.
	So I got somebody to download it and I read it all.
	And all it was was stuff that me and Tal and everybody else in the industry, somebody had taken all that and put it together like it was one big, you know.
	Document.
	All of our stuff.
	And there was some hidden phrases.
	The one I remember specifically was talking about a former attorney general in Nevada named Brian.
	And I forget what his first name was.
	His last name was Brian.
	And it was spelled B-R-I-A-N. And his real name was B-R-Y-A-N. For some odd reason, I had the capacity to recall stuff that happened.
	You know, 50 years ago, exactly, and I don't know what it is, you know, but I can recall stuff I read, stuff, you know, people I talked to, you know, anything to do with this, it's instant, and I don't know how it works, because there's a lot of other stuff I don't remember.
	But stuff like reading, I can take that document, read right through it, and say, no, I know who wrote each one of these, you know, and recall that.
	So, the document that she had, Was not secret at all.
	So the box was never found.
	What about the other, I don't know, six boxes?
	Each one was given to a friend and none of them was found.
	Okay.
	So that's pretty much the end of the Dulcie story.
	It comes up every once in a while.
	What about Mark Richards?
	Have you ever heard of him?
	He's the guy who, well, he's a guy who said he was a security guard who is in prison right now for another...
	You know, it's like a setup.
	He says it's set up for murder.
	His wife, Joanne, I guess is out.
	Total unadulterated bullshit.
	Really?
	And that's from three of us who have researched that story.
	Backwards, forwards, upside down.
	That's the dark of the moon or something like that.
	I mean, it was crazy.
	When I started to read that, I actually paid for it.
	I actually paid real money for that story because he says he was a test pilot for my father.
	Back in the late 40s, and that would have fit because, you know, he did use test pilots back in then.
	And some of it sounded pretty interesting, but then when I read the attack on Dulcie and, you know, the attack, the Dulcie story, the fight, what we call the Dulcie War, not a war at all.
	What happened is they were, and this is like in the late 70s.
	I think it was, 79. One gray was giving a class to about 40 U.S. scientists.
	It was at Los Alamos, or Dulce.
	And it was just a class.
	And guards, our guards, the Delta Force, We're advised that they were not allowed to go into a classroom with a gray or approach a gray or be anywhere near a gray with a firearm of any sort.
	And so whatever reason, this security guard walked into this instructional class with a weapon.
	And the gray killed him instantly.
	I mean, there was no warning, no nothing.
	Just killed him instantly.
	The Delta Force who were watching it on the monitor went in force to take revenge on something they had witnessed.
	And when it was all said and done there was 66 people killed and included all the scientists and all the Delta Force.
	By the one grade?
	By the one grade.
	So I had heard this story and when Bob Was at S4. He read the identical story.
	He heard the word Dulce.
	The only difference between the document, the briefing he read on the massacre was that it occurred at Area 51. And the only possible explanation that I have for that is his clearance hadn't advanced high enough for him to know about Dulce.
	Because it didn't happen at Area 51. It happened at Dulce.
	But he did read the whole description.
	And he talks about that.
	Maybe we'll have time.
	There's a videotape over there called the Bob Chronicles.
	And very few people have seen it.
	And what it was, was when Bob decided not to go back to work at the test site.
	And he was, you know, he was going nuts then because they were shooting his tires out.
	He came here the night, the day they shot his tires out, or the one tire out.
	And, you know, he came here.
	He said, John, I'm going to turn myself in.
	I said, Bob, there's nobody to turn yourself into.
	Now stop it, you know.
	And so he slept on the couch that night.
	And I lost my dream of thought there.
	He slept on the couch.
	What were they talking about?
	Before that, we were talking about his having seen these documents.
	He wasn't clear to know about Dulcie.
	Oh, yeah.
	But you were saying this tape, the tape that he recorded...
	Oh, the tape in Bob Chronicles.
	So anyway, right after that, George Knapp went in and did an hour of interview over at his house.
	And to get everything on tape that he could possibly tell us.
	So that if they did kill him, that at least we'd have that.
	And that was before we made the Lazar tape.
	The Lazar tape took three or four months to do.
	And then that was a professional one.
	But what George wanted to do was get the meat of the information right now.
	So you're saying you have that?
	Yeah, it was right there.
	I gave it to Ron.
	Garner?
	Garner.
	The other day to put it on DVD. Did you?
	Is he going to try to sell it?
	I don't think so.
	I told him.
	We tried to get it.
	I talked to George about it, and he said, no, technically it belongs to Channel 8, so he can't do anything with it.
	I said, okay, I just show it to friends.
	Yeah, we'd love to see it.
	Sure.
	That'd be great.
	So, in a few minutes here, we'll take a little break, and I'll show that.
	I'd like to ask you how that...
	Dovetails into Phil Schneider's story about the firefight at Dulcy.
	Well, you know, Phil's a great guy.
	I've met him on several occasions.
	It's a great story.
	I think there's aspects of Phil Schneider's story that are true, but I don't think that Dulcy is, and I don't think he was in a Dulcy firefight.
	Because everybody got killed there.
	Well, isn't it possible there's more than one?
	Firefights?
	Yeah.
	Possible, but Bob only read one.
	And the guys that I've talked to...
	A few minutes ago we were talking about the insiders that I had met and then the one insider I told you about, that told me about building the piece of mining equipment that was so huge and he doesn't know how it went to the moon, he talked about Dulcie and he said that he knew it as Section D and there's other people that know it as Section D and not Dulcie.
	That guy specifically, he was the insider.
	When I talk about an insider, this guy was on the inside.
	And he said, you know, he told me stuff I hadn't heard before.
	For instance, I'd always heard that we'd been to the moon earlier than 1969. He says, yeah, we were there in 62. We were on Mars in 66. He was the one that told me about the fourth.
	Astronaut being killed in Apollo 1 because he was there two hours later.
	They sent him specifically and he didn't say why they called for him or what he did, but he said that instantaneously as the fire was going out...
	NSA who controls everything there.
	It's not NASA. It's a national security agency.
	They locked down the whole area.
	Nobody moved while they went in there, NSA guys, and removed that body.
	They had to, you know, take Grissom and Chaffee and White and get that guy because where he was sitting was down by the environmental control unit.
	And I'll show you what the Apollo...
	Module looks like because when you first start talking about a fourth guy, they say, oh, there's no room.
	I've seen it in a museum.
	Well, there's plenty of room down there because that's where they stored the moon rocks.
	And we're going to store the moon rocks.
	And the guy would stick his feet there and lay his head up on the instrument panel.
	And the astronauts would be laying this way and he'd be laying that way.
	And what it was, there was always a fourth guy there to help them sort out their problems.
	Now, that particular day...
	Joe Shea was supposed to be there.
	And for some reason, Joe couldn't be there.
	And so this astronaut, whoever he was, was in there helping him sort these problems out.
	And in any book over there on Apollo that you read, the official story is that Walt Schirra met with Joe Shea at lunch and said, you know, why don't you...
	Hook up an extra fourth headset in there and send somebody else in to go help them sort out their problems.
	And Joe Shea allegedly said, yeah, I think we'll try that out.
	And then each book goes on to say it was too difficult to do, that they had to hang wires out the hatch, and they had to seal the hatch so they couldn't do it.
	And all that, of course, is bullshit.
	They had everything wired for a fourth astronaut in there just for For that specific purpose, to help them sort through the problems.
	Now, you know, Chuck...
	What?
	Not McClellan.
	Clark McClellan.
	What?
	Clark McClellan.
	Clark McClellan.
	And I have talked at this at length.
	And, you know, to this day, it hurts him to talk about it because it was so awful.
	But...
	You know, we've talked about what happened after that, and his feeling is, he's the one that told me, he said, it was not a specific kill, but they let it happen.
	They let him die.
	And this one really hurts, Clark.
	Okay, about a week ago, CNN said that a 220 A mile by 40 or 50 mile chunk of ice had broken off from Antarctica and that it just demonstrated how serious global warming was becoming.
	And it had a video taken by a British crew in a twin otter flying along this huge chunk of ice that was cut as straight as an arrow for 40 miles.
	And this was trying to be sold to us, the public, as something that had just broken off when it was obviously a direct energy weapon that had made all the square cuts on this.
	And they're using the weapons that they have, the direct energy weapons, to do all kinds of stuff like that.
	That one was to cut that piece of ice off.
	Worry about global warming, which, yes, there is global warming, but we had nothing to do with it.
	It's just a natural cycle of birth that's going to go warm up for a while, and then it'll cool off for a while.
	There's nothing we can do about it.
	Other things they have done with that, certainly, the Muirah building in Oklahoma City was absolutely...
	A direct energy weapon, no doubt about it.
	I'm sure that Timothy McVeigh is alive and well now.
	He was part of the operation.
	There's no way that they'd let him die.
	That was a test for the direct energy weapon, which was predecessed for the 9-11.
	Talking about the Atlas V mystery launch, Atlas V is a missile that is one of our current missiles that we use to launch all kinds of things into space.
	This one was launched 24 hours after Atlantis, the STS-122 was scrubbed at Kennedy Space Center.
	Patrick Air Force Base is right next to that.
	It's the military Cape Canaveral.
	And somehow they got this thing launched in 24 hours and I'm just saying the importance of the story was something that was going to go up in Atlantis had to get up there and there was no delay in it.
	So they had to get the range ready and put these astronauts, I'm sure they were astronauts, it could have been cargo, but I'm sure the astronauts in this Atlas V and launch it.
	Now the Atlas V of course has a huge Payload on top and there could be anything in it.
	I've never seen what's in it.
	I assume there's a little spaceship in it and there are two or three astronauts get in it.
	When Atlas V goes up, it opens like that and that little spaceship goes out and can maneuver between all the other space platforms we have and then it can come back in and glide in and land.
	What's so suspicious about this is they got that thing into the air within 24 hours after Atlantis was scrubbed and the story they put out with it and later I'll show you the headlines of that story which made it so suspicious.
	One of the things I wanted to tell you about is that I've been driving between Las Vegas and Reno for Maybe 30 years.
	My folks moved up there in 1968. I moved here in 1974. And about two-thirds of the way to the Reno, there's a nice little town called Hawthorne, Nevada.
	There's a nice little lake there.
	It's called Walker Lake.
	It's about 14 miles long, about 80 miles deep.
	It's a very picturesque little place, right huddled up against the mountains.
	There's two military operations there.
	One is an army ammunition Fabrication where they make different types of explosives, missiles, that type of stuff.
	That's on one side of the road.
	On the other side of the road is a place called NUWC and that stands for the Naval Undersea Warfare Center.
	Every time I go by there, I see that beautiful little sign that says Navy Undersea Warfare Center and I realize we're about as far out in the middle of Nevada as you can possibly get.
	All there is is sand and mountains as far as you can see and this little teeny lake.
	It couldn't possibly be used for undersea warfare training because it's not that big.
	So I've always wondered, you can look down in there, and it kind of slopes down towards the lake, and you see a couple of nondescript buildings, but nothing very interesting.
	So I've always wondered what that place is.
	Now, over the years of flying for the different airlines that I've had, I've talked to three different people who have said there's a submarine base there.
	Now, I've always, you know, wondered...
	First of all, the submarines couldn't come up in Walker Lake.
	It just can't happen.
	It's too shallow.
	There's no way they could do that.
	And besides, there's a bottom to that and they couldn't come up.
	So, these people have been very knowledgeable who have told me this and I've always wondered what the real deal was.
	So, last August, I gave a talk at the San Jose UFO Expo West.
	And my topic was the civilization on the moon when I talked about the civilization on the moon.
	And after it, a Navy guy came up in full-dress uniform and a young man and thanked him for my talk.
	And I said, should you be here?
	And he said, oh yeah, no problem.
	And I said, great.
	When were you last down in the tubes?
	And he said, or I said, have you been down in the tubes lately?
	And he said, every day.
	Now that's the key question you ask a Navy guy, because, you know, the Navy has an underground tube system that goes all around the world, and it's very, very fast.
	I think you can go anywhere in the world in an hour.
	And it's very secret.
	It's been operational, you know, since the 60s.
	And everybody knows about it, but it's a big, big secret, and it's a big Navy secret.
	I've known some really interesting and top-level Navy guys, and I've never found anybody that actually admitted being down there except this one guy.
	So when he did that, I said, you know, this guy's in.
	He knows it.
	So I met with him later, and he told me a lot of interesting things.
	Well, what's the description of the tubes?
	When you say the tubes, you're talking about, like...
	What, a high-speed train?
	Yeah, it's a high-speed train.
	It's about the diameter of this room, and they have little cars that you get into, and you get kind of prone like this, and you pull the hood down there and go, and you're, you know, anywhere in the world in an hour.
	I talked to this guy, and one of the things I said, you know, do you have anything about Hawthorne?
	And he said, no.
	He said, why?
	And I said, well, you know, there's the Naval Undersea Warfare Center there.
	Oh, yeah, I know what you're talking about.
	Yeah, he said, the entrance is north of Fort Ord on Monterey Bay.
	And he said, the Pacific Ocean underlies California, Nevada, and Idaho.
	And he said, that's...
	That's the channel that goes from Monterey Bay to Hawthorne, and then there's an elevator at Hawthorne that goes down 4,300 feet, because the altitude of Hawthorne is 4,300 feet, and the elevator takes them down to sea level under Hawthorne, and that's why the Army base is there, is because they make the ordinance that goes into submarines.
	And that's why you never see or nobody's ever seen any ordence-laden trucks come out of Hawthorne either south or north.
	They don't.
	They go right down to the Pacific Ocean where the submarines go in and they load up there and they come out here.
	There's also, now I know what a friend of mine was, Scotty Lyon, SEAL Team 6, one of the original SEAL Team founders, a great guy, passed away now, so now I can tell.
	He told me there was a secret Navy base in Lake Tahoe.
	He didn't tell me more than that, but now I see what everybody's talking about.
	There's underground...
	Naval bases connected by the Pacific Ocean that go all over.
	There's some up in Idaho.
	And who knows, you know, a few months ago on APS, a guy said that his father worked on nuclear submarines in St. Louis, Missouri.
	So, you know, and he went down there and he saw the lake and everything.
	So my question was, did they come up the Mississippi or did they come eastbound?
	In the Pacific Ocean to there.
	So then the question is, does it connect with the Atlantic?
	And it's very possible it does.
	Two of the original nuclear submarines that were lost by the Navy, as you remember, were the Thresher and the Scorpion.
	And both of them...
	We had fantastic stories of a valve coming apart or attacking a Soviet submarine and that kind of stuff.
	But if you go into the Branton files and read about that story, those subs were lost exploring this area here.
	Both of them, the Thresher and the Scorpion.
	And what was interesting is on ATS, When I first started to talk about this, they called in the big team from the Pentagon.
	And this blowhard Navy guy comes in, you know, all huffy and huffy.
	And I hear somebody wants to talk about the Thresher or the Scorpion, you know, and I let him have it.
	And of course, he's gone the next day.
	You know, he didn't realize, you know, he thought he was going to, you know, intimidate us there.
	That was really interesting.
	One of the other things I heard about was a computerized battleship.
	It's called Fleet 21. It exists.
	They just finished their sea trial southwest of Coronado.
	It's going into full operation now.
	It's 600 feet long, just exactly like any other battleship, except there's not one person on it.
	It's all computerized.
	There's a helicopter landing pad on the back that if anything goes wrong, they bring in a team with nine members and they go down and they get to the computer room and they fix it and then take off.
	But what that allows us to do is make total attacks with a battleship with nobody being hurt.
	The other thing I heard was we have what's called a fast attack submarine.
	Now the stuff that I'm telling you is technically not classified for this reason.
	Several years ago it was determined that the minute you classified something You had to do so much paperwork that it became unclassified.
	Too many people had to know about it.
	So the best thing was to do is not tell anybody about it except those people that knew about it and not classify it.
	And that way you could keep it more secret, if that makes any sense.
	This is a nuclear-powered fast attack submarine.
	The interesting thing about this is I believe it uses fusion instead of fission.
	It's only 70 feet long.
	Imagine a nuclear source that could power that thing within that small of space.
	This is a 12-man SEAL team lockout.
	And this is the submarine.
	I think there's about 70 of them now.
	That's the one I believe that cut the cables because they can dive down deep enough, get down there and have their 12-man team go out there and do whatever they want with the cables.
	This thing is very highly advanced.
	It's 70 feet long, goes 120 knots.
	And as a nine-man crew, the ROV here stands for Remote Operator Vehicles.
	They're tucked in there, and there's three of them.
	One of them can fly.
	One of them can actually go up and fly around and take pictures or do whatever you want.
	Now, you look at the 20-knot speed and say, John Lear, now, come on.
	We know that planing in submerged hulls cannot possibly go that fast.
	Well, the fact is, now they've found...
	Perfected, solved boundary layer control.
	And boundary layer control is that portion of the sea that comes in contact with the ship and creates the friction.
	Is that similar to the technology they got on the wing of the B-2 bomber?
	Yeah.
	But applied to water?
	Severine.
	Severine.
	I understand.
	And they make the stuff up in space.
	Our manufacturing plants.
	When the shuttle comes back, and one other airplane, I'll show you another picture of an airplane here that was seen over Ireland a couple years ago, come back.
	They're bringing parts, and they bring it back in sheets, rolled, and bars.
	And it's the stuff that's fantastic, and you can do all kinds of stuff.
	But the most important thing you can do, like on submarines, it keeps the boundary layer.
	That layer between the hull and the sea about three to five centimeters away, so there's absolutely no friction, nor is there any noise associated with that.
	So they use that not only on their new battleships, but on their submarines and on their airplanes.
	It's a really, really fantastic piece of material.
	So that's how they can go 120 knots.
	We know that the displacement hull of a boat Like say the Ronald Reagan, the theoretical max speed is 1.34 times the waterline.
	So we know the waterline of the Ronald Reagan's about a thousand feet, so you take 1.4 times the square root of that, and you come out with about 32 knots.
	And that sounds reasonable to most people.
	You know, an aircraft carrier going 32 knots.
	Man, that's really hauling.
	The fact is, I think the Ronald Reagan goes about 90 knots.
	The reason I think that is because the Enterprise definitely went 75 knots.
	I have friends that operated on that, and they said that whenever they had to go somewhere, go someplace fast, they would tell Tell everybody to get below decks, you know, because the weather was coming, and then they get it up to 75 knots.
	The reason they did that is, number one, they didn't want anybody figuring out how fast they went.
	And they didn't want to get them blown off deck because 75 knots is really rolling.
	That's almost 90 miles an hour.
	And you don't want anybody trying to walk across the deck when they're used to just maybe walking around in 30 knots.
	And then when you say, well, when they got there, wouldn't they ask any questions?
	No.
	The fact is nobody asked any questions.
	TWA 800 was shot down by a Navy submarine.
	It's been kept under wraps like that.
	I often hear people say, Well, that's not possible because we know that Navy guys are the most talkative in the world and certainly somebody would talk.
	That's not true.
	Navy is one of the closest knit forces in the world.
	Nobody says nothing unless they're supposed to.
	And there's no possible way that anybody on that submarine would have ever told anything.
	Yes, one person did call his dad and that...
	A person called Jim Sanders who wrote the downing of flight TWA, 800, but that was the only one that said anything.
	Which missile was it?
	I don't know.
	It was one that was aimed at a drone.
	And when they launched it, the drone was between TWA 800...
	And the submarine.
	And for some reason, when the missile was launched, it lost instantaneous, just for an instant, a lock on the drone.
	And when it reacquired a lock, it reacquired TW-800.
	And when it went through TW-800, it went through first class, knocked the nose off, and caused the center tank to explode.
	So you're saying it was an accident?
	It was an accident.
	It was a Navy accident.
	They were just using it for live fire exercises.
	And they had done that forever.
	And that was the fifth airplane.
	The civilian airliner that the Navy had shot down since 1963. The first one was Flying Tiger Line, who I worked for, a Lockheed Constellation over Guam, where a Navy pilot went up and he was just doing some, you know, aiming at the airliner going by because he had nothing else to aim at, and then accidentally let a missile go in and shot down, killed everybody on board.
	That accident was always unknown causes, but it caused Flying Tiger Lines to be the largest cargo carrier during the Vietnam War, and the Pentagon to authorize a separate Flying Tiger airline, which was called Flying Tiger Air Services, to run the extra flights down from Japan down to Vietnam.
	Flying Tigers made a fortune off that accident, and I was in close time.
	Just before I lose the point, I'd like to compare the testament here because we were told by Henry Deacon.
	Now, he actually asked us to take this off our website because he was curious about what had happened to TWA-800.
	So when he was on the inside, he asked around.
	He said it was a Stinger missile.
	It aimed exactly at the drone and just missed.
	It's exactly the way he said.
	It was a Navy, genuine accident.
	He said the whole thing was covered up.
	He said the thing was right at the top of its classified altitude.
	That's possible because it's publicized as 8,000 feet and that's why all of us cancel the Stinger out.
	Is it possible that a Stinger will be fired from a submarine?
	I thought the Stinger was handheld.
	No, I think the Stinger story and its classified altitude is maybe we're trying to make it like...
	Terrorists fired instead of the Navy.
	We would rather have terrorists fired instead of our Navy, because the Navy just shot down the Iranian ship, so why did they shoot down?
	What Henry said was that it was a Stinger, but it was a Navy accident.
	It could have been.
	Whatever it was, it was a Navy accident.
	I doubt if a Stinger would be fired from a Navy vessel.
	There's too much evidence that the Navy did it.
	They did it, and I doubt if they did it with a Stinger.
	The Stinger has an explosive on it, and there were no explosives.
	In TW800, there was only the fuel which damaged anything.
	And that's for the record.
	Okay.
	Sanders did an excellent thing on that.
	But anyway, so that was TW800, and it affected me directly because what the FAA came up with, an excuse, and this is all Richard Clark's fault, trying to blame it on center tank.
	Exposed wiring in a fuel pump.
	That's so impossible.
	I cannot even tell you.
	During the time of this investigation, I was flying a Lockheed L-1011, which was a huge cargo airplane.
	It had a mammoth cargo door.
	And I was taking Boeing 777. There were cowlings from Wichita, where they were made at Boeing, to Seattle.
	And when we'd wait for this thing to be loading and we'd talk with the Boeing guys, they were just furious that the FAA and the NTSP were trying to lay this on ARC. Arcing wiring of a fuel pump, because there is no wiring in a fuel pump that's anywhere near fuel.
	It's just ridiculous, and everybody was pissed off about the whole thing.
	I was pissed off because the FAA then said that you had to keep enough fuel to cover the fuel pump.
	So that it wouldn't arc.
	Because, you know, if there's fuel there, it can't arc.
	It's only if there's fumes there will it arc.
	Well, on the L-1011, we had about 115,000 pounds of cargo capacity.
	And if we kept the center tank fuel pump covered, we lost about 2,000 or 3,000 pounds.
	And that was the make or break.
	And it eventually bankrupted Kitty Hawk, who I was working for.
	But anyway, But I want to ask you a question.
	Did you know Ben Rich?
	No.
	But I talked to people who did.
	Now, I'll tell you what Ben Rich had to do with this.
	First of all, do you know where he was born?
	Ben Rich was one of the most, the biggest Mossad spy in the United States.
	I mean, he got the most classified information.
	Here's what happened.
	Here's how he got messed up with Israel.
	In 1947, when Israel became a state, James Angleton was chief of CIA in Rome.
	They sent Angleton down to Tel Aviv, along with some guys from MI6, to form Assad.
	And for some reason, however it happened, James Angleton got allied with Mossad like this forever.
	He was the mole.
	If you remember in 1960, he was the head CIA director of foreign intelligence.
	And he was the guy that always was looking for the Russian mole.
	He was the Russian mole!
	Because, you know, he was so friends with Mossad, he'd tell Mossad stuff and Mossad would pass it on to Russia.
	David Van Gurion, in the summer of 1963, said, you know, we have to kill Kennedy.
	I'm tired of him threatening us with inspecting Demona.
	It's none of his friggin' business.
	I don't want to hear any more from Kennedy.
	You kill him.
	He gave that order to Mossad and then resigned so that he couldn't be held responsible for it.
	Mossad then went to Angleton.
	The Kennedy assassination was not a CIA job, but it was greased by the CIA only because Angleton was in there with his buddies.
	At Mossad.
	And he's the one that greased the skids for everything that happened in Dealey Plaza and the escape and everything.
	There were Corsican sharpshooters there, hired by Mossad.
	They pulled off the whole thing.
	And everybody says, well, you know, they think the mob killed Kennedy or maybe Johnson did or, you know, Casco.
	It wasn't.
	It was Israel.
	And the reason they did is because David Ben-Gurion didn't want any more inspections of Damona.
	And that's all it was about.
	Nuclear, it's where they do their nuclear biological testing.
	That's where they do their nuclear bombs with plutonium they stole from us.
	But what's Ben Rich got to do with that?
	Okay, so Ben Rich was born with a very wealthy Jewish family in the Philippines and a very highly educated and he was slipped into Lockheed in 1953 as Kelly Johnson's second in charge.
	And he was there for the development of the U-2, and he was there for the development of stealth.
	You know, there are a lot of Ben Rich famous UFO quotes that kind of allude to technology, right?
	Right.
	Yeah.
	There's nothing of that in that book.
	That book's the inside story that led up to the U-2 and the SR-71.
	I understand.
	But he did say, he said...
	What's the exact quote?
	You probably remember it.
	We have stuff that would make George Lucas jealous.
	We could take E.T. home.
	Yeah.
	So, I mean, he was an insider from way back, is what you're telling me, right?
	Yeah, but he was in my side spine, I'm going to tell you.
	But on some level, if he's a Mossad spy, because the Mossad seems to be in cahoots with, if you want to call them, you know, the Nazi, NASA Nazi group.
	I'm glad you understand that, because when people say, did Israel have anything to do with 9-11, I said, as much as Santa Claus had to do with Christmas.
	So, yeah, they're all working together.
	If you're telling me Angleton was involved with Mossad, you're telling me Ben Rich is involved with Mossad, you know, we've got the whole, there's a whole alignment there.
	Absolutely, positively, beyond a shadow of a doubt.
	So, now we get ready to build the stealth fighter, and this was the beginning of the real secret stuff that went on within our government.
	The Navy wanted a secret Stealth fighter of their own.
	It was called the F-19.
	And it gets confused here because people say, oh, the F-19, that was really the 117A. They just renamed it.
	No, no.
	The F-19 was a separate airplane.
	They made 62 of them.
	I had a friend that not only worked in avionics, but I had a friend that knew about it.
	He didn't fly it, but he knew the guys he did.
	So it was a completely separate airplane.
	At the Skunk Works in Burbank, there was a Grig Iron Kind of a curtain that went down at the Skunk Works.
	And you had the 117A on this side and the F-19A on this side.
	They used both F-404s, the engines.
	They used both the same landing gear.
	And the reason was is they were trying to build this secret Navy airplane without any money using spare parts from the...
	F-117A so that they keep it absolutely, totally secret.
	And you know what?
	They have to this day.
	Because you can't find a person.
	And that's one of the big problems I had on ATS. People would come down on me.
	I'd start talking about the F-19.
	And boy, I'll tell you, you talk about a sensitive subject.
	They didn't want to hear that.
	Here we have Ben Rich on page 48 talking about the skunkworks and how it works.
	And he says, meanwhile, the Navy came to us to test the feasibility for a stealthy weapon system and set up their own top-secret security system that was twice as strident as the Air Forces.
	We had to install special alarm systems that cost us a fortune at the section of our headquarters building devoted to naval work.
	Okay, now here's a setup.
	All they wanted was stealthy systems.
	Okay, and the next pair In the midst of all this inter-service rivalry, security, and hustle and bustle, Major General Bobby Bonds, who was in charge of tactical warfare, came thundering into the skunkworks with blood in his eye on a boiling September morning.
	The Santa Ana winds were howling, and half of L.A. was under a thick pall of smoke.
	My asthma was acting up, and I was in no mood for a visit.
	But General Bond was a brooder and worrier and drove me and everybody else absolutely bonkers at the time as he followed the progress of the F-117A. He always thought he was being shortchanged or victimized in some way.
	He pounded on my desk and accused me of having some of my best workers of his Hab Blue airplane, which was a 117A, to work on some rumored Navy project.
	I did my best to look hurt and appease Bobby and even raised my right hand in a solemn oath.
	I told myself, so what?
	It's a little white lie.
	What else can I do?
	The Navy project is top secret and Bond has no need to know.
	We could both go to jail if I told him what was really up.
	So here he says, unfortunately, on the way out to lunch, the general spotted a special lock and alarm system above an unmarked door, which he knew from prowling the rings of the Pentagon was used only by the Navy on its top secret projects.
	Vaughn squeezed my arm.
	What's going on inside that door?
	He demanded to know.
	Before I could think up another lie, he commanded me to open the door.
	He said, Rich, you devious bastard, I'm giving you a direct order.
	Open the goddamn door this instant or I'll smash it down myself with this goddamn fire axe.
	The guy meant every word of it.
	He began pounding on the door until a crack.
	Finally opened, he forced his way, and there sat a few startled Navy commanders.
	Bobby, this isn't what you think.
	I lied in vain.
	The hell it isn't, you lying SOB. I surrendered, but not graciously.
	Okay, you got me.
	But before we go to lunch, you're going to have to sign an inadvertent disclosure form, or we'll both have our asses.
	The Navy, of course, was outraged at both of us.
	The Air Force General, seeing their secret project, was as bad as having a blueprint for the Russians.
	Okay, so...
	And that's the F-19, you've got an artist impression over in the war over there, isn't it?
	The what?
	Yeah, at the end.
	The F-19 is the artist...
	Those are artists running around.
	Beautiful plane.
	Okay, now see this little thing at the bottom of the page?
	It says, General Bond was later killed in a test flight.
	Because of the tragedy, the Pentagon ruled that general officers could no longer do test flights.
	That was in 1984. You know what he was killed in?
	The story was a MiG-23, which we all knew was bullshit.
	He was killed in an F-19 because he demanded the Navy let him fly it.
	And what they did is they electronically disabled the control system and killed him.
	And the reason they did is they didn't want the Air Force to know about the Navy project.
	And the reason they didn't want them to know about the Navy project is that part of those airplanes were going to carriers and part were going to Israel.
	And that's the story of...
	Are you saying that Israel had or has the F-19?
	F-19, yeah.
	I mean, it's 25 years old.
	I mean, it's a big deal.
	Does Santa Claus have Christmas?
	Great step up.
	Okay.
	I want to ask you something else also.
	The guy, the general who Bush just fired, or whatever you want to call him.
	Admiral Bill Fallon.
	I've got a...
	I've got a whole...
	I've got Esquire's story.
	When I heard that, I went right down to Esquire.
	I went right down to the Borders and I bought that thing.
	I brought it over word for word.
	I mean, you talk about a good guy.
	Okay, yeah, absolutely.
	Oh, absolutely.
	I made Merrily read that.
	I said, you read that because that's the difference between war and not war.
	I said, if there isn't any Navy good guys, he's the Navy good guy.
	Now, you know, he's been a lot involved in a lot of bad stuff.
	He knows about the air.
	He knows about everything.
	But he was trying to do a good job.
	Yeah.
	That was a bad...
	So that's a real red herring, right?
	So we're on fast train somewhere right now.
	That's bad news that he quit.
	I mean, or is that just his way?
	He didn't quit.
	He was fired, wasn't he fired?
	No, he quit.
	No, but I mean, I know the story.
	He probably knew it was coming.
	But the fact that he would actually say this in Esquire magazine, you know, two or three months before, knowing it was going to be published now...
	You know, tells me he knows we are fast-tracking, you know, a nuclear war in Iran, and there will be no war there without nuclear bombs.
	That's a given.
	And what would Mike McConnell's position be on this?
	Mike McConnell, I'm sure, you know, he was MJ-1.
	I think he's a good guy.
	We've clued him in on our quit-em complaint because I think he can help.
	What he's doing now doesn't make any sense to the overall program, but, you know, I don't know.
	I'm just hoping Mike is a good guy.
	What do you think?
	We believe he's a good guy, and it's interesting...
	Well, you know...
	You know about his complete tie-in with that, right?
	Oh, yeah, absolutely.
	It's interesting to speculate that the reason for the release of the National Intelligence Estimate in early December...
	Was despite Bush's guns, because that's what it looks like.
	There was an attempt to stop the war.
	And because of his tie-in with Dan, I think he's a good guy.
	Right.
	Yeah, that's basically what we think.
	But because of what we've heard from Dan about him...
	So, what I've told the guys in the Quit Em Complaint, Jerry Liepart is the attorney...
	Morgan Reynolds filed it.
	Judy Wood filed her own separate suit.
	She's the one that's the expert in molecular disassociation, DEWs.
	There's a few people participating, including myself.
	And, you know, I told these guys when...
	I've been following along Morgan's efforts and in November I called him to make him aware of certain things I knew about airplanes that he didn't know about and he He said are you the aviation guy?
	And I said yeah, and so we started an email dialogue and then in December He was going to take over Jim Fetzer's program for a couple of Days and said would you like to be interviewed?
	I said sure so I went on there and then he found out just how much else I knew about 9/11 and then a couple days after that he and Jerry emailed me and they said you know We're honored at what you said.
	We believe you know you're very informed.
	Would you?
	Agree to help us would you be interested in filing an affidavit and I said yeah, tell me what you want So I wrote that 15 page affidavit and that's great stuff and And been with them ever since.
	But when I was getting into it, I said, now I want you guys to understand this.
	There is no way we're going to pull this off by ourselves.
	All we're doing is opening the door for somebody to help us.
	There's no way we can bring this.
	There's just too much power overhead.
	I'm hoping that there's guys like McConnell and Fallon that will see what they're doing and figure out a way to help us.
	Because we're not going to do it ourselves.
	Okay, do you believe that America is going to dissolve into civil war sometime in the next few years?
	I don't think so.
	You don't?
	Okay.
	Well, what do you think?
	I mean, what do you think of the fact that a lot of stuff, a lot of government stuff is being sent to Colorado?
	I mean, some say Denver is basically, you know, that, I don't know, the Pentagon, everything else is moving to Colorado.
	I think it's Sandia, but I think Colorado is a cover story, but I could be wrong.
	I think it's all be sent right up there.
	As a matter of fact, let me undo this.
	Twenty years ago, they were having trouble with keeping programs secret by using secret names.
	So what they did is they would name a program...
	A name that was common, like the Sandia Mountains, Sandia Corporation, the Sandia Desert, all that, and call this Sandia.
	So if it ever came up, everybody would think, oh, you're just talking about Sandia Corporation.
	I drove by there the other day.
	But no, that's the way they keep...
	Here's the spaceport on the far side of the moon, and I can just show you a NASA book with a NASA photograph, and you can just take your own magnifying glass and see that spaceport.
	There's no doubt about it.
	And you know why?
	Because the photo was taken in 68, and NASA didn't get serious about airbrushing until 1970. So I bought all those pre-1970 NASA photos, no, books, because they hadn't...
	Really?
	Have you ever told Hoagland about that?
	Yeah, as a matter of fact, we were on the George Norris Show, and George showed him that, and I said, now, does that look like a space terminal to you, Richard?
	And he said, no, it looks like an airline terminal.
	The tubes, the tube supports, there's no doubt about it.
	Here's the other thing.
	Here's a crater called Demozo.
	There is no doubt, you know, that areas like that, those are all houses, buildings, stuff like that.
	There's just no doubt.
	So anyway, the other day I thought, you know, I'd just like to see.
	I've got this photo that was taken by Lick.
	I got the other day, and I was going to enlarge it to see if I could see that.
	So, I take this photo here, and I say, okay, it's right here, near Good Sandy.
	And I look, it's all whited out!
	Look at it, here's the beautiful bucket craters!
	And you look at that spot, are there any craters?
	No, it looks like there's a fog!
	You're talking about something that really pissed me off.
	So anyway, I'm looking to see the show you sent me.
	Yeah, thanks, Dan.
	This is my best man.
	This is my best man.
	Here's Las Vegas.
	Right.
	Here's Grim Lake.
	Here's the Tonopah Test Range.
	Right.
	And here's Sandia.
	It's on the Paiute Mesa.
	There's a strip up there and then there's two new strips out on the dry lake there.
	And then up here they've got a really neat secret base.
	Ely.
	Let's see.
	Here's Wilson Creek.
	Lincoln, George.
	Oh, Ely, right out here.
	That's a dry lake there.
	Well, that's in the middle of nowhere.
	That's a 10,000 foot strip there.
	That's a really secret one.
	You can drive by at 2 o'clock in the morning and every once you'll see the lights going now.
	The way you can tell secret bases is the runway lights are blue.
	That's the Air Force.
	Really?
	Why are they blue?
	What's the significance of blue?
	That's just what the Air Force...
	Secret base run lights are blue.
	So they've got this new deal here that's been in effect for like 20 years.
	Most of these things are underground and when a pilot comes for an approach only when he gets to be about 500 feet the ground unzips like that.
	And the ground could be forest, it could be a desert, it could be a cotton field.
	It just unzips like that.
	He lands, it zips back up and then take an elevator and go down.
	Wow, that's great.
	So that's Sandia.
	And that's why it's called Sandia.
	It's just a regular place.
	So you haven't had any exposure to...
	To time travel, to jump rooms, to...
	No, the jump room is great.
	And the other day, Ron Blackburn was over here because he gave my six-year-old a computer.
	And I'll have to think about whether we should edit this out or not.
	But I was talking about jump room and Ron said, oh yeah, I know that, it's jump room.
	Jump technology.
	He said it just like that.
	Oh, that jump technology, I know that.
	Okay, here's the, this is the space plane that the guy saw over Ireland.
	Wow.
	Ten times bigger than a Boeing 747. Incredible.
	Twin tails slightly visible.
	Engine bay, jack black, no nozzles.
	So you've never seen anything like that, have you?
	No.
	He saw it at sunset.
	He said, sun angle very low, almost setting, viewed at directly seven o'clock, directly above, and it took seven seconds to get to the horizon.
	He said, disappeared over Belfast out of sunlight, a white small nose, and no vapor trail, no sonic boom.
	Demarcation of body sections visible all dark gray.
	I had some correspondence with this guy.
	Oh, you did?
	Yeah, just a couple of months back.
	And we figured things out together.
	The thing must have been going 18,000 miles per hour.
	Miles Johnson.
	Yeah, that's correct.
	These are his original drawings.
	Oh, wow.
	And I made that.
	But when he first called me, he said, would you have any interest in this?
	I said, of course, Miles.
	Send it.
	Send it.
	He said, well...
	Now, what I did, John, was I put him in touch with Mark McCandlish so that Mark McCandlish could make a real professional job.
	And so the two have been working together so that Mark can add it to his file.
	And so those two have been having a lot of fun.
	If I had one planet I could go to, I'd pick Saturn.
	Because they say that if you even got a look at it, your mind would be so boggled that you couldn't do anything for three days.
	I found a thread called...
	Are extraterrestrials real?
	As real as the nose on your face.
	And it was 108 pages long and it had been closed.
	And it had been closed because the guy, Sleeper, had been getting irritated with the questioners.
	So I started reading this thing and about page 18 I said, this is real.
	This guy knows what he's talking about.
	This fits in with everything I've ever read.
	I need to talk to this guy.
	So I finished the 118 pages and I put them in that book over there that says Sleeper.
	And I emailed him, PMed him, and eventually got to talking with him.
	And it was so fascinating.
	I said, would you mind coming back?
	I mean, people got to hear this stuff.
	And he said, no, no, I'll come back.
	And I said, okay, now just let me run interference for you.
	Don't talk back to anybody.
	Let me do it.
	So I went to Mark Allen and I said, I'd like to see if we could get Sleeper back.
	He said, well, he better behave himself.
	I said, okay, he'll behave himself.
	And that started the I'm Coming Clean on Extraterrestrials and ran 250 pages.
	He had the most views, the most posts of any other thing.
	It was, I mean, it was just an enjoyable, everybody would get up every day to see what the questions, you know, the answers were to some of the questions.
	So is the stuff up there?
	What?
	Is this stuff still up there?
	Yeah, I believe so.
	And, you know, people, it eventually got very few insults.
	Of course, you know, you're always getting the guy that comes on and says, this looks like a little horse pucky to me, you know, and I'd handle it.
	I'd always get on there first thing in the morning and handle the guys, and so Sleeper wouldn't have to do it.
	It was great up until the very end.
	I mean, even at the very end, it was...
	It was wonderful, and we had a lot of fun with it.
	And then, along with that, he wrote a blog called What It's Like to Spend a Day with an Extraterrestrial, and it's the most fascinating space story you've ever read.
	And he says at the beginning, he said, I forget exactly what he says, he says, this is written as a screenplay, but believe it or not...
	Every word of it is true.
	And it's about going to Uranus and the people who live on Uranus and what the buildings look like.
	It's absolutely fascinating.
	So, I think Sleeper is 110% genuine.
	And, you know, if it proves he's not, I'll be shocked beyond all possibly because, you know, everything he says is dead on.
	And, you know, when I talk about...
	You know, and he's taught me a lot of stuff because, you know, when in the last few years and people ask me, well, what's it all about?
	Well, I don't know.
	Maybe the grays are selling our souls or, you know, harvesting us.
	I was wrong, you know.
	They're here to do a job.
	And Sleeper is the one that told us.
	And he puts us all throughout.
	Try and live your life without envy, hate and greed, love your family.
	He says that's the only way you're going to move on and you have to keep coming back to earth, you know, and doing this until you learn how to do it right.
	When you learn how to do it right, then you get to go out and play with the adults.
	So Sleeper is the one that, you know, and when I started talking, it's really interesting to see the gentle transformation because, you know, in the beginning he says, People would say, is John Lear right?
	Is there people on the moon?
	And Frisier said, no, no, nobody up there.
	And at the end, he said, yeah, John Lear's right.
	There are cities and people on the moon.
	It was a really neat transformation.
	It took a while to do for him to come out, but it was really cool.
	Thank you.
	is a fission reactor 29 miles in diameter.
	You can see the dome there.
	You can see the support sections there.
	Have we missed anything, John?
	Is there something that you wanted to cover that we haven't had a chance to look at?
	Just let me talk a little bit about the civilization on the moon, because that's been the thrust of mine.
	And tell us something about the glass structures that Hoagland's talking about, because he calls it glass.
	He said it's a special kind of glass, but...
	Do you agree with him?
	No.
	Okay, and why not?
	Because he's talking about, I think, the Apollo 14 pictures, and his thrust is those glass structures are domes.
	Right.
	And those domes are what contain the air.
	No.
	The air, it's a thin atmosphere, but as you know, according to Boyle's law, in an atmosphere, the lower it is, the thicker it is.
	If you have, and I've had some wonderful drawings I posted, but I don't see them here.
	As a matter of fact, I'm going to try and find them so that you can take a picture of them, because they draw exactly what I'm talking about.
	The air settles into the craters, and if you're in the crater, you can breathe fine.
	If you get out of the crater, it takes a little longer.
	But basically, the civilization of the moon starts.
	Back at Newton, somebody has influenced our thought about the moon since the beginning of our thinking about anything.
	Newton, for instance, he started to venture to say that there might be more mass on the moon, and that's brought out in his three books now called Principia.
	Shortly after Newton died, Somebody modified his thoughts to make what is called the Newton Law of Universal Gravitation, which is Fg equals g times m1m2 over r2.
	And he didn't come up with that.
	That was somebody else.
	He didn't think that you had to specify what the mass was.
	But anyway, in 1856, there was a Danish mathematician.
	And astronomer named Peter Andreas Hansen.
	And he proposed, he had been researching the times and the periods of Saturn and several other things.
	He was very knowledgeable.
	But anyway, he was also looking at the Moon.
	And he had found something strange about the Moon that when you Did the predictions on where the moon should be for a particular time, for its particular mass, it was not there.
	And so in 1956 he went before the Royal Society, Astronomical Society, and proposed that there was a bump.
	On the far side of the moon, the center of gravity was actually placed 57 kilometers farther out in space than had been generally realized.
	And for that reason, he thought that there might be atmosphere on the far side.
	And with this atmosphere, he thought there might be plants, vegetables, and maybe even human life.
	So he was regarded as a hero and a very interesting guy up until 1870. When a guy named Simon Newcomb came to Paris and told everybody that Peter Andreas Hansen was full of beans, there was not a shred of truth to it, and that even if he was right about these different times, that it wouldn't make any difference.
	So guess who Simon Newcomb was?
	He was a Rear Admiral in the U.S. Navy and head of the U.S. Naval Observatory in Washington, D.C. The reason people have trouble with an atmosphere on the moon is to have an atmosphere you have to have gravity and People think that it's one-sixth gravity and they've been sold that over the years Somebody has had an agenda here so that we don't think that there's any gravity on the moon But there is and the way it can be proven is by using the Bulli-Aldis
	Newton law of inverse square Which takes the size of the planets that I am into the planets and the neutral point The neutral point is that point between the Earth and the Moon where the gravity of the Earth exactly meets the gravity of the Moon.
	Now, NASA has traditionally told us that that's 24,000 miles.
	And if you work out the inverse square law with 24,000 miles, the Moon...
	It does have one-sixth gravity, but the fact is the neutral point is at 43,495 miles.
	How do we know that?
	We know that because Wernher von Braun told us that in 1968. We know that because in two of the books of Apollo, including Apollo 17, and there was another Apollo mission, they specifically said, here we are at 39,000 miles and at the neutral point.
	So we know...
	That it's between 39,000 and 43,000 miles, and either one of those would work out to be about 60 to 64% gravity Earth.
	So, having 64% of gravity Earth, it can hold an atmosphere.
	And people say, well, if it has an atmosphere, how does it keep the atmosphere?
	Well, the same way the Earth does.
	Forests, meadows, lakes, rivers, people, civilizations, and it's on a band.
	Of the moon that's just beyond where we can see and I have a picture here, but I can't find it, but it's on a band and that's the same band that both Menger and Adamski visited.
	I'm pretty sure Menger actually went to the moon in 1954. They let him step out of the train and breathe the air.
	He's 86 years old, living in Vero Beach, Florida.
	I emailed him the other day to get the The exact color of the moon, and if you could reach that picture, I could hold it up.
	It's behind the cigar box of the moon, the color picture of the...
	I'm sorry, John, I don't understand.
	Oh, the color picture of the moon?
	Yeah.
	You mean the one in the lobby?
	Sorry, which one you were trying to?
	It's the long picture with the yellow sky.
	Up at the top?
	You don't mean on the wall, do you?
	No.
	Behind the cigar box.
	Oh, I see those cigar boxes.
	No, just hand me that photo right there.
	Okay, this is the Crater Copernicus, and this is the same photo that's up there.
	But all I did was put the exact color of the lunar sky.
	And how do I know that?
	Because I emailed Howard Menger in Florida.
	We took a trip there in 1954, and when he looked up into the sky, he said that's the exact color he saw.
	He describes it as a saffron color, and I sent a number of swatches with different color saffrons to him in Florida, and he marked the X on that particular color.
	And so I put that color behind the crater Copernicus, and that's the color of the sky.
	We think it's that color because although the atmosphere is not as dense as the Earth, it's higher.
	And the rays reflecting through the atmosphere will go more towards yellow.
	But what you get on high mountains on Earth, for example, is you just get a darker blue.
	I mean, I know that because I've been there.
	It would be a different composition of atmosphere in order to create that color effect, surely.
	It would contain different gases.
	Do you know anything about that?
	No.
	All I know is it's breathable.
	He stepped out.
	He said it was very hot, but not as hot as we're led to believe.
	And he said you certainly couldn't stand it for very long.
	But then he looked up and saw that color sky.
	Can you tell us something about him?
	What is his background?
	Howard was just a person living a normal life.
	The moon people came and invited him to go up there.
	He wrote this book called Secrets of the Flying Saucers from Outer Space.
	One man's fantastic revelations of visitors from other worlds.
	He has a website.
	I've read this book several times as you can see.
	Here I've highlighted exactly the He says what he did on the moon, where he was taken.
	There was a lot of other people.
	He said the place he went, one of the places was like the Valley of Fire in Nevada.
	He says, there we stopped long enough for our guide to open the door and permit us to stick our heads out for a brief moment, which was all one could take, for it was terribly hot outside like a blast furnace.
	I was certain that no one could have lived outside very long and was glad to have shut the door.
	So is that maybe a basis for the domes as well?
	Because, you know, you can regulate temperature, you can regulate...
	Yeah, I'm sure there's small domes.
	I don't think there's any like Hoagland is saying, though.
	Huge domes all over the place.
	Here he says, I looked up in the sky, it was a yellowish color.
	When looking...
	I had a queer impression that if I walked some distance I would fall off since the horizon was so foreshortened.
	There were other groups with him.
	Along with ordinary folks, scientists, geologists, electronic engineers, rocket experts, astronomers.
	So this guy is, you say, in his 80s at this point?
	86. He was 86 the other day.
	Have you met him in person?
	Not in person, only on email.
	But basically, as far as you're concerned, he has no reason to lie, right?
	No.
	No, because his story is the same as George Adamski's, Truman Bethebram, the other, what the government...
	Labeled as contactees, which was their way of saying, yeah, well, you know, they're just contactees.
	And I think both of them, both of Damsky and Menger became very important sources for the government.
	When I first got into this, You know, 20 years ago, people would say, you know, well, you know, think flying saucers are real, and I'd say, yeah, but, you know, that George of Scansy scuff was all bullshit.
	It wasn't.
	It was all real.
	So was Iron Venture.
	So was Truman Betheverman, Daniel Fry.
	All those people were telling, you know, the exact truth.
	But the fact is, if you've been to Living Moon, you've seen the original government papers on who was involved in the anti-gravity project in 1952. And Lear Incorporated, my father's company, is listed right there.
	And there's a video floating around on the web that shows him at the blackboard.
	Teaching scientists at the Bonson Institute how a flying saucer flies.
	And this was probably 1954 or 1955. But the fact is we had anti-gravity solved in 1957 or 1958. And we started building our own craft and went to the moon in 1962. And Mercury, Gemini, Apollo was just a cover for all that was really going on.
	Now, what do you say about All the NASA pictures, all the Apollo photos of the moon do not show a saffron sky.
	What's going on there?
	Yeah, it always shows pure black and the reason is they couldn't show the real color.
	That's why all those photos are so fake.
	That's why there's no stars there.
	They didn't have much of a choice, you know.
	They're trying to say that it's dark, that it's...
	A vacuum.
	Well, first of all, it can't be a vacuum because Neil Armstrong says he could pick up the dust with his toe, and we all know that a vacuum, that the dust will settle into a crust, and you can't pick it up with your toe.
	And they couldn't show the sky because it was a saffron color, and that would lead everybody to believe there was atmosphere.
	So I'm not sure whether Apollo 11 went, and here's why.
	Now, it may have gone to the moon, the command service module, and may have orbited the moon, but the problem I have is they only had 22,000 pounds of fuel.
	And they went into an orbit that was about 50 miles by about 10 miles.
	This would be impossible with 64% gravity.
	But even if it was, from 10 miles, they'd have to go down to the lunar surface, land, and then take off with 22,000 pounds of fuel.
	I don't think that happened.
	I don't think they could do it.
	That's not enough fuel to do that.
	Second of all, I have a group of friends that remote-viewed Apollo 11, did it land, and they weren't able to see any kind of landing.
	All they were able to see was it was a CIA cover-up of somehow.
	The other one is Aldrin's comment, and I'd just like to read from Buzz Aldrin's book.
	All the astronauts had some interesting things to say, didn't they?
	The what?
	Yeah.
	Here's what Aldrin says when he's asked, how did it really feel to be on the moon?
	And he bristles, quote, for Christ's sake, I don't know.
	I just don't know.
	I have been frustrated since the day I left the moon by that question.
	Yeah, that's amazing.
	The fourth reason is the video of the light standard crashing.
	Now, the one small step for a man.
	Now, that's been alleged to have been a joke, but if it was...
	It was extremely well done and very expensive.
	My opinion?
	My opinion is that it was real.
	That that was during the filming and I based that on little details like the ladder, like the shadows.
	Everything about that tape is real.
	I think that was a real outtake of one small step for a man.
	Number five, the G's required to orbit and deorbit.
	As you know, the lunar lander had no couches, had no seats, had no chairs.
	They stood up.
	They stood up and they had an armrest.
	Under here and one under here and all they had is a little belt that came out from the side and wrapped around them.
	Now that's not even good for a seat belt.
	They're called pilot restraints.
	That's all they had.
	And you're telling me they came out of orbit at 50,000 feet and landed and then blasted off with an armrest?
	No, no, I don't think that happened.
	And the other is the different ladder in any picture of one small step for a man and photos of the Apollo 11 taken after that show a much thinner ladder, one made of tubular, looks like aluminum, compared to the one in one small step that is at least that thick and it's an L-shaped.
	That's my take.
	Apollo 11, I don't think, landed.
	The others, maybe, but I'm not sure.
	If they did, if any of them landed, it was with technology that used anti-grav.
	That's what we were told.
	We were told that they had help.
	Otherwise, they would not have been able to land.
	That was the only way they could have done it.
	And they wouldn't have been able to get through the Van Allen belts.
	Do you have any...
	I believe that to be true.
	The only reason I hesitate is because Bob Lazar told me that there was nothing dangerous about the Van Allen Belt.
	But what you say about the Van Allen Belt, Sleeper is adamant about.
	He said nobody can get through that.
	He said that's a protective layer around the earth so that we can't get out.
	The only way that we could get out was with help.
	We were told that too, from the inside.
	And that's what Sleeper is very adamant about that.
	Very interesting.
	Okay.
	Now, I have to ask you about the standard rebuttal to the atmosphere issue, which was that when you're looking at the Moon through a telescope and you see a star, it doesn't twinkle, it's just crystal clear, just like it's always there, and then it suddenly disappears.
	People who say that haven't done that.
	First of all, if you read V.A. Fursoff's book called A Strange World of the Moon, you'll see that there's many instances of occultation.
	But the fact is occultation can only occur as if there is some sort of dust or kind of sediment in the atmosphere.
	Here on Earth, there's all kinds of problems up there.
	On the moon, it's clear, perfectly beautiful.
	Depending on the thickness, you may not see occultation.
	But if you want to read Strange World of the Moon by V8, first off, he lists at least 14 or 15 astronomers that have seen occultation.
	Okay.
	I want to check my understanding of the issue of the center of gravity of the moon being offset from the center of the moon.
	Have I understood that right?
	Correct.
	It's 57 kilometers further away from Earth than is normally thought.
	And of course, that's confirmed by Apollo, too.
	That doesn't sound like it's enough to make any difference to anything.
	That's a very small amount relative to the size of the Moon, which is...
	Well, of course, we don't know what the Moon's made of.
	We don't know how much...
	You know, how much actual weight that would be, but the fact is that the moon does this, what do they call it, where it spins at the top?
	Yeah.
	But what's it called?
	Libration.
	Another spaceship moon mystery is its libration.
	Libration is the spaceship moon's wobble, and this wobble is theorized by mainstream science to be caused by tidal lock.
	Tidal lock.
	is a nonsensical theory to account for unknown forces like gravitons to account for gravity.
	Maybe the spaceship moon's libration or wobble is caused by the rotation of the moon about the location of the gravity B wave generator which is located further away from the earth from the center of the spaceship's moon geocentric center.
	It's curious to note that one cycle of libration is equal to one period of rotation of the spaceship moon.
	Are you saying, therefore, that this is one of the causes for the gravity on the far side of the moon, if you're on the surface, to be greater than it is on this side, and so the atmosphere is on the other side of the moon?
	Peter Andreas Hansen felt that it was on the other side.
	But the fact is, if there was more gravity further, it would depend on the altitude whether the air was denser on the far side or the near side.
	What we don't know for sure is the altitude, the mean altitude.
	If we knew that, we would be able to tell where the denser atmosphere is.
	But in any case, the denser atmosphere is going to go to the lower portion.
	This is a picture of the Moon, and this was taken by Lick Observatory.
	And in any picture of the Moon you see, any picture, from way back when up until now, there's a very bright spot up here which is called Aristarchus.
	You ask NASA or anything about it, they just say it's incredibly white.
	We don't know what's there or why it's like that.
	But in fact, last summer, We had an astronomer over in England take a picture.
	If this shows it, we found what we assume is a fission reactor.
	29 miles in diameter.
	You can see the dome there.
	You can see the support sections there.
	And you can see the blue glow of radiation while the reactor is going.
	Absolutely.
	So this is a nuclear reactor on the moon.
	It's visible on this side of the moon, right?
	Correct.
	And we've always been told it's whited out on any photo you see.
	They just take a whiteout and they put it there.
	So this is pretty incredible.
	Did you talk to Hoagland about that?
	I can't remember whether I did, but I know he wouldn't admit it.
	This is the Clementine photo.
	You see how it's been airbrushed?
	All it is is, you know, just lines there.
	We wondered whether you had any insights, intuitions, or anything else.
	But what happened to Steve Fossett?
	I flew for Baron Hilton for three years, both his Hawker 125 and his Learjet, and many, many times went to the Flying M Ranch.
	And so I'm very familiar with that, very familiar with Byrne.
	And the fact is that the Navy Undersea Warfare Center is only 16 miles to the east.
	It's just coincidence that It was only two days after I posted all this stuff on the internet about the sub, the Naval Undersea Warfare Center, and the battleship, and Hawthorne's tie-in with the underground submarine base, that Steve Fossett disappeared.
	So what I theorize is that...
	He took off and was just flying down there, saw an interesting place, flew around, and the Navy commander looked up and said, I'll bet you that's John Lear.
	Shoot that son of a bitch down.
	So they shot him down and they went over there and they looked and found out it was Steve Fawcett and the Admiral said, we've made a mistake.
	I don't want anybody ever to know about this.
	Get rid of the airplane and the body.
	Crazy.
	That's very crazy.
	But, you know, I say that in semi-Italian cheek.
	There's no reason, you know, for Steve Fawcett to have disappeared like that.
	It's just unbelievable.
	Considering the amount of money, the amount of airplanes, the amount of time that went into that search, how could he possibly disappear, you know?
	The problems I have with, you know, when he first disappeared, we heard that he was looking for, you know, a straightaway for his car.
	Well...
	You know, it's pretty obvious.
	You can look on a map.
	You need seven miles.
	And there's not many dry lakes that are seven miles long.
	And even all dry lakes are on a map.
	So he wouldn't need to fly around to find some accidentally undiscovered lake bed.
	I mean, that's ridiculous.
	Well, plus, he's not going to fly in the mountains for that, right?
	No.
	And then, you know, we heard that he took his watch, which had the automatic emergency signal, and then it turned out, no, he didn't have his watch.
	But I will say this, the stories that he was shot down over restricted areas like Groom Lake or Tonopah test training is just ridiculous.
	That's not the way it happened.
	Well, I think he was recruited and sent to Mars or something.
	Pardon?
	I said, I think he was recruited.
	Maybe forcibly to work on, you know, on Mars or Moon.
	Very well could have been.
	There's some people that have disappeared I have some questions about.
	And the number one guy is Bob Nathan.
	Now, Bob Nathan was head of JPL's Viking Imaging.
	Very well known.
	Always accessible to the public.
	Bob Lazar and I went down to see him personally to ask him a question about Mars.
	We got badges.
	We're admitted personally.
	You know, he told us everything he knew.
	You know, it was easily accessible.
	Now you Google him and there's no record of the guy.
	It's like you go to Wikipedia and look for John Lear.
	He does not exist.
	And if you look into the records on Wikipedia, the only thing that said no substantiation for anything he claimed.
	And that's it on Wikipedia.
	Now you can find Bob Lazar, Bill Lear, you know, the man on the moon, Howard Menger, everybody else.
	But you can't find John Lear on Wikipedia.
	So Bob Nathan has disappeared as far as you know.
	As Google.
	Yeah, I can't find him.
	And the reason I looked for him was because I was telling the story of when Bob and I went down to JPL. And the reason we went down there is Bob just got out of S4. At S4, he was shown a picture of what they call Wow!
	door handles, everything.
	Wow!
	I mean, it was a place where somebody lived.
	So our question was to Bob Nathan, were there any other pictures taken other than the two that Hoagland and Di Pietro put in their book?
	And he said, no, not that we know of.
	And so then we said, well, you know, these pictures were taken at a very low altitude, Was Viking ever taken lower than the pictures that Hoagland and Pietro have?
	And Nathan said, yes, but we didn't take any pictures from that lower altitude.
	So what that tells us is how compartmentalization works again.
	Bob Nathan knew one part of his program.
	But Bob Nathan is not the head of the program.
	He just is the front man for the certain things that he does.
	And it's the guys down in Australia, Canberra, that get the original signal that tell exactly what's going on.
	We had a girl named Kathy Thomas that worked at Goldstone.
	And she used to tell us some funny stories, Bob and me, because she would get the signals from Australia.
	And she'd say, we've been sitting there waiting for, you know, Mars signals, and it would be 24 hours.
	And they'd say, they'd send a message down and say, are you guys done airbrushing those pictures?
	We need them, you know?
	And so anyway, she invited me and Bob down to Goldstone, and we got the royal tour.
	I mean, we got up in the antenna and all the different places there.
	It was really great.
	She went to work for Arathion up at the test site and haven't heard a word from her since.
	Now Bob says he's heard from her.
	But once you go to work there, you don't talk to anybody.
	For instance, if you go to work for Space Command in Colorado Springs, when you get hired, you're told To say goodbye to all your friends, because you're going to have a whole new set of friends, and they don't want you to accidentally meet an old friend and say, hey, you'll never guess what I'm doing now.
	They're serious.
	They say goodbye to your old buddies, because you are not going to see them again.
	And that's how they avoid those little mix-ups like that.
	Wow.
	Incredible stuff.
	Are you saying that Bob Lazar was shown detailed pictures of Cydonia at S4 when he was looking at that?
	Yeah, he was shown the pictures of the...
	Do you know why he was shown those pictures?
	Part of his briefing.
	They told him, you know, the bases we had, the moon, the base we had on Mars.
	What does he remember about what he was told about the Mars base?
	You know, its function and, you know, how big it is and who else is there?
	Nothing.
	I've told you everything he told me.
	And all that was that he was shown the picture.
	We went down to ask Nathan about it, and that's all he was told.
	When you decide what you're going to pursue, that's all they tell you about.
	In his pursuit, in his job he wanted to do, back engineer the propulsion.
	They don't brief you into anything else.
	Another interesting thing I want to...
	You know, what told me on Dan Burch was the detail of the formalities.
	You know, when you get out of the airplane, what do they do?
	And Dan Burch, I watched that videotape, you know, he spent an hour telling exactly what they do.
	It was so detailed.
	I don't see anybody who couldn't believe that stuff.
	I mean, you just couldn't make that stuff up about being escorted here and the changing of the guard and all that stuff.
	But one of the things he said, he was weighed, you know, they're weighed in and out.
	And very carefully, you know, and what I want to tell them is the reason that, you know, that just came in a couple of years ago is because that started with Bob Lazar, because on one of his trips up there, he took a little, that little 110 camera that was just about that big, and they didn't search him in those days, and he walked right into S4 with it, and he had a chair, and he leaned back like that, and he put it up into the leg, and then he was going to take a picture and bring it out, but he had his problem before he got it out.
	So after he...
	When we left, somebody found that camera.
	And that's when all the weighing started.
	Great story.
	Okay, John, I have one last question.
	You flew for years and years and years, right?
	As a major airline pilot.
	Okay.
	So you were up there quite a bit.
	Did you ever see a UFO when you were flying?
	You know, as I explain to people, when you're flying, you're not looking for UFOs.
	You're looking at the instruments and seeing where you're going, or, in my case, sleeping.
	And then at night, when it's easier to see UFOs, you're not looking outside.
	First of all, you've got a brightly lit instrument panel here, and it's reflecting on the window, and there's all kinds of reflections around.
	You're paying attention to what's going on, or, like me, sleeping, and so it's very difficult.
	You wouldn't notice.
	You wouldn't have the chance to notice a UFO. You would have to put your face up to the window and cup your hands, you know, and who's going to do that, you know?
	Right.
	But yes, there's twice I saw UFOs.
	Once was in 1966 on descent into Los Angeles in a Learjet over Palm Springs on that long descent through Panning Pass.
	And I was descending, and I saw a white object going left to right across the front of me, and it looked exactly like an M2F2. And that's the flying bathtub that, you know, the $7 million man crashed in.
	You remember that series?
	It didn't have any engines, or it had a little engine, but that was for landing, and it just looked like a flying bathtub.
	You mean the $6 million man, right?
	Yeah.
	And so when I landed, I even took the time to call the chief pilot of Learjet.
	Hank Beard.
	I said, hey, you're never going to believe what I saw.
	The M2F2 passed me today, you know, going into Palm Springs.
	Only years later did I realize how ridiculous that was that an M2F2 would be flying across the main approach path to Los Angeles International Airport.
	You know, they only flew that thing way out in the desert.
	So, you know, obviously that was something.
	Okay, so twice.
	So that's one.
	And then in Lockheed L-1011.
	Here, just before I retired, with Kidiak International going westbound.
	Over the Midwest.
	No, it was just like south of Chicago.
	I was looking south, and of course the guys I flew with, you know, no one was interested in UFOs.
	They didn't want to know about it.
	They didn't want me to point out any UFOs.
	So I didn't even bother looking, you know.
	Besides, I'm usually asleep anyway.
	But it just happened that I was woken up here this time, and it was very, very dark and very quiet.
	And I saw this thing come like this, and I go, just wave.
	Way out in outer space.
	I thought, wow, that was really something.
	And then I saw another one.
	Bam!
	I said, boy, that's really something.
	You know, I ought to tell these guys, but as soon as I do, there's not going to be another one, and I'm going to look like an idiot.
	So then here comes the third one.
	Boom!
	Like that.
	And I said, well, I'm going to try it.
	And I said, hey, guys, I want you to look at something over here.
	And the wolf came over there, and a fifth one came.
	And he went, Boom!
	Like that.
	And both of them sat down.
	Boy, I never saw anything like that.
	So that was the second time.
	And it was really great because they both got to see it.
	That's amazing.
	There was no denying it.
	Wow.
	I mean, they were both in a state of shock.
	That's fabulous.
	And, you know, it was definitely a UFO, whether it was too small to see what was flying.
	So what year was that?
	Do you remember?
	Would have been 98, 97, 98. Really?
	Not that long enough.
	So I'm sure that must have been our stuff.
	Okay, so people say, okay, John, there's flying saucers and reptilians and secret bases and secret satellites, and we did our own 9-11, we bombed ourselves, and there's wars, and you say there's nuke wars coming.
	You know, what are we supposed to do with all this?
	I mean, what's the point of all this?
	The point of all this is...
	To try and advance in your life.
	And the way that you can do that is to try and live your life without envy, hate, or greed.
	Also, to spend as much time with your family and tell them how much you love them.
	That's really all we can do.
	We can't be responsible.
	We can't be responsible for the bad guys.
	We can't be responsible for the children that are having so much trouble in the world.
	We can't be responsible for the nuclear wars that are going on.
	all we can do is be responsible for ourselves.
	And that's to live our lives without envy, hate, or greed, and to tell each member of our family how much we love them, and to tell them that every day.
	I try without living without envy, hate, and greed, but there sure are a lot of assholes out there, so...
	That's great.
	I think we'll make that our ending.
	But the...
	What are you worried about?
	You're worried about losing information on camera.
	I'm just worried about losing good stuff when we're not on camera.
	Because you're not wired up to the mic, it's lost forever, then we think that we've got it, but actually we deserve a lunch.
	But we have to control the environment here.
	That's why...
	That's exactly right.
	That's why I thought that...
	I thought we were talking about that on camera.
	It's so easy to forget.
	It's like, shit, this is something you tell us over a coffee break.
	What?
	He said, you blew her off a couple years ago at your front door.
	She came to talk to you and you told her to, you know, take a hike.
	I said, unbelievable.
	So I called up Angela and it just happened a couple weeks later she was running a full week course.
	The reason I wanted to take remote viewing was because I'm not the least big psychic.
	I don't know when my wife's mad.
	I don't know when the doorbell's going to ring.
	I don't know when the telephone's going to ring.
	And I wanted to find out if I could remote view.
	And the answer was positively, absolutely.
	I was shocked at the stuff I could do.
	Wonderful.
	And one of the things we did is each day one guy got to send the other to task the others.
	And I tasked in Venus, and I did no front-loading, you know, which means I'm giving advance information.
	I've taken a lot of them up.
	I said nothing.
	And at the end, I had to laugh, because everyone, you know, when they went through cool-downs, said, wow, what a place!
	I'd love to go there, you know, because it's beautiful there.
	Oh, that's great.
	And it was really satisfying to do that.
	Cool.
	Yeah.
	Well, see, there you go.
	What happens in the late 50s, we had a couple Navy people who used a balloon checking out the atmosphere of Venus.
	And they said there's probably an atmosphere, you know, for all intents of Peru, probably life there.
	So whatever reason, we had to put a stop to that.
	And I theorized that they got some general.
	Around a table like this with his aides.
	He was telling them, so here's the plan.
	We've got to be sure that nobody believes there's life on Venus.
	So I need you guys to give me some ideas now.
	Let's think this through.
	So one guy says, how about an atmosphere of sulfuric acid?
	The guy says, good, good, I like that.
	Atmosphere of sulfuric acid.
	Come on guys, let's think outside the box here.
	What else?
	Well, how about volcanoes, exploding volcanoes?
	Better yet, we'll make a volcano every square mile on Venus with lots of lava flowing around.
	Okay, come on, let's get some more ideas here.
	How about 90 bars of pressure?
	That's good, good, 90 bars of pressure.
	Nobody could live, you know, with 90 bars of pressure, 90 times the pressure on Earth.
	He says, I think we got a good, good program here.
	And so one of the captains says, you know, General, I don't think anybody's going to believe this bullshit.
	I mean, how could that all happen to a planet, you know, so close to us?
	I mean, why would there be sulfuric acid and exploding volcanoes, you know, and 90 bars of pressure in the hand?
	He says, don't you worry about that, son.
	If we say it loud enough and long enough, they'll believe it.
	And so that's how the new Venus planet was born.
	Incredible.
	Well, I mean, that's actually a believable scenario, what you just laid out.
	But both Adansky and Menger, I think they both either saw it or went there.
	Well, there's also supposed to be some...
	This is Valiant Thor.
	This is the stranger at the Pentagon.
	Oh, Val Thor?
	Val Thor, yeah.
	Yeah, Val Thor, that was...
	That was told by Frank Strangers, who wrote this book called Stranger at the Pentagon.
	And if I remember right, I hadn't read the book, if I remember right, Val Thor was supposedly from Venus, and that was before they decided to cancel the Venus story.
	Right.
	What do you know about that?
	Only that Val's ship was supposed to be parked right out here at Lake Mead, and I have the coordinates, and you can go right up there and see where it was.
	But that's all I know about Thor.
	One of the people who we met after we interviewed you was Bob Dean, who you must know quite well.
	Wonderful man.
	He told us that the aliens who the authorities were most worried by were the ones who were indistinguishable from ourselves.
	And who were walking the corridors of the Pentagon and in government and in the military.
	Walking down the street and you'd never know the difference.
	Have you heard anything about that?
	There are aliens like that.
	But the problem is we allied ourselves with the wrong aliens.
	We think that the greys are our enemy.
	And that's why we built those 12, or at least 12, weapons.
	Based platforms for the direct energy weapons that circle the globe now.
	And we started in 1968 before Apollo ever went.
	And we've been building it ever since.
	And what they intend to do, and when I say they, I'm talking about the nasty NASA Nazis, is if they can't get rid of the greys, they're going to blow up Earth because they don't want...
	The Grays to have what they consider the prize.
	They don't understand that there's billions of Earths.
	There's billions of Earths just identical to us, all in various stages of development, you know.
	And they think they're going to destroy Earth, and they're not.
	Now, in support of that story, one of the first things Bob told me that night was he saw a message that we sent to the owners of the Grays, and it was, if you help us get rid of the Grays, or nobody's going to have Earth.
	And that's when Bob told me about this super weapon that we have that could destroy a continent half the size of South America.
	And since then, I've heard, you know, really knowledgeable guys say, yeah, we have some really frightening weapons and I'm not sure how it's going to turn out.
	So the plan is, the guys who run all of this stuff are going to destroy it.
	The plan is to destroy us if they can't get rid of the graves.
	Of course, they're not going to get rid of the graves.
	The graves are all over the friggin' place.
	I can't say they're beneficial.
	They have a job to do, and that's take care of the containers.
	Sometimes it's good, sometimes it's evil.
	But that's their job, and there's nobody going to interfere with that.
	So they will almost certainly protect us from any kind of disaster that's going to come along.
	But meanwhile, the nasty...
	Okay, well, what about the reptilians?
	A separate deal, I'm sure.
	They have their own civilization.
	They're probably underground.
	Well, I mean, you certainly know that there's more than one kind of gray, right?
	Yeah, there's plenty of them.
	And there's plenty of different types of reptilians.
	And Ron Schmidt and I are talking with a guy, really a knowledgeable scientist.
	You know, a guy that, you know, would sit down and be comfortable without talking with anything.
	And he told us his first encounter with a reptilian.
	And it was so believable.
	You know, he's working across the lab, and he just looks over at this guy and asks him a question.
	he says the second eyelid went down for a second, you know.
	Contacted by somebody who's a scientist who actually is a nephew of one of the ex-CIA directors.
	He's a solid, very smart guy.
	And he went in just for a couple of days at one point to do a particular technical job in Dulcy.
	This is how this little conversation started.
	And as part of his briefing for going to Dulcy, he was...
	Told about what he should do if he should encounter a reptilian.
	This is part of the briefing, very matter-of-fact.
	And what he was told is that if you encounter one of these guys, you drop your hands with your palms open to show that it's a gesture of supplication that shows that you're not a threat.
	But you don't do that, you do that.
	And he said that that's what you do with these guys, and they'll leave you alone.
	And he did encounter one of these.
	He encountered one reptilian in silent communication with one grey.
	And just on one occasion, just for a few moments.
	And he did what he was told, you know, and he said that this large creature was awesome and arrogant and cold and looked like it would just, you know, kill you with a single bird.
	And, you know, you just back away, back away slow.
	And everything was cool.
	And everything was cool.
	And he told us this in a very matter-of-fact way.
	Absolutely.
	I believe it 100%.

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