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Feb. 15, 2025 - Project Camelot

03:32:01

JOHN LEAR REVISITED 2017 : RE-RELEASE

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	Thank you.
	Lear Incorporated was designated the primary contractor for anti-grav propulsion.
	And they were the ones that perfected anti-grav.
	And when I say perfected, I believe in 1956 is when we had our own flying saucers.
	If anybody knew the truth of whether MJ-12 was real or not, it would have been Jimmy Doolittle.
	And I'd like to know if this MJ-12 is real or not.
	And he said, yes, it is, but I can't talk, say anything about it.
	That was what got me going on UFOs, because up to that point, I didn't believe in UFOs.
	UFOs.
	If I miss contacting you, two contacts in a row, you can do whatever you want with these boxes.
	The information in it was seven or eight minutes of videotape taken in a corridor at Dulce, 25 black and white photos, and 100 pages of information.
	It was called the Dulce Wars.
	It wasn't a war.
	What happened was...
	And I knew all this before any of this information came out.
	These 44 scientists were being given this briefing by a Gray at Dulce in a small auditorium.
	Do not go anywhere near a Gray with any kind of weapon or ammunition because you will be killed immediately.
	Hi everyone, I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Hamlet and it's been a lot of years but we are back in John Lear's study and what an amazing place it is and it's it's a lot of fun to be back with John.
	John you're looking great and I just want to say as always this place is a treasure trove of stuff with old stories and And you're still at it.
	You're still researching.
	You've got more to share.
	And we're already launched into this conversation.
	And we're very, very interested in what you have to say.
	And it's a joy to be here.
	And I want to say John Lear is a famous pilot.
	And he is very well known.
	And he has been interviewed by Project Camelot.
	At least twice in person.
	And I think once or twice on my radio show as well.
	And he is highly popular on our site, etc.
	He comes from...
	His father actually invented Learjet.
	And he broke a lot of records as a pilot, from what I understand.
	And he's something of a renegade.
	He doesn't necessarily play by the rules.
	And in our view, that's a good thing.
	And I also want to say, I mean, we want to go all over the place with this interview.
	We're really going to go back into the past and get some of the stuff we might have missed, some tidbits here and there.
	And then we want to go into more of the future and what's currently going on.
	So that's kind of how it's going to go.
	What I'd like to do right now, we've been having a lot of fun talking about Lake Tahoe and the undersea channels that are going all the way from the Pacific Ocean inland.
	So maybe we can circle back on that in a minute.
	What I'd like to do here, though, is talk a little bit about your father because wasn't he a member of MJ-12?
	Isn't that true?
	No.
	In 1952, his company...
	Lear Incorporated was designated the primary contractor for anti-grav propulsion and they were the ones that perfected anti-grav and when I say perfected I believe in 1956 is when we had our own flying saucers and There's a
	couple of books out by John Irwin, extremely interesting.
	He was one of the 16, and if you know the story of Irwin, at each mission that he was sent on, he saw flying saucers.
	Now, this was in 1956. All right.
	And just for the record here, we have interviewed John Irwin.
	Oh, I have.
	As well.
	More than once.
	And you know that I wrote the foreword for his books.
	Did you?
	Excellent.
	Yeah.
	I guess I didn't remember that, but that's great to know.
	So you guys have been in touch.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	Lovely.
	Okay.
	Good to hear.
	And my dad would have been part of that, except he made a trip to Bogota.
	Columbia in 1953 and talked about flying saucers.
	The press were interested in flying saucers and my dad having knowledge being selected by the government for the development of anti-grav, he was very well versed in it.
	He shouldn't have been talking about it.
	He signed many, many security clearances, and the interview that he gave in Bogota was the last straw, and he was kicked out of wherever he was.
	Now, he wasn't a member of MJ-12, but he knew all the members on a very close basis.
	Jimmy Doolittle was not...
	A member of MJ-12, but he was about as knowledgeable in the affairs of MJ-12 as you could be without actually having been a member.
	And Jimmy Doolittle lived down the street.
	We lived on 222 14th Street in Santa Monica.
	And Jimmy Doolittle lived on 3rd Street with his wife, Jo.
	And they were always...
	Over at our house for one thing and another.
	And very good friends.
	And the letter on the wall there from Jimmy Doolittle is framed.
	The center picture is him taking off from the carrier to bomb Tokyo.
	And I had an airplane accident on June 24, 1961. And caused myself a lot of damage, which is now giving me all kinds of problems 50 years later.
	But Jimmy Duda wrote that letter of encouragement, and I had it framed next to the picture of him taking off the carrier to bomb Tokyo.
	Okay.
	Now you...
	Also said, if I remember correctly, maybe my memory isn't so good here, but there was one guy who was, I thought, a member of MJ-12.
	He used to visit you and your wife, but he was really a fan of your wife.
	Of my mom?
	Was it your mother?
	Yeah.
	Okay, your mother.
	And that was Vandenberg.
	He had a crush on my mother.
	My mother talked about that all the time.
	He said that he had had a crush on him.
	Was he MJ-12?
	Yes.
	Vandenberg.
	He was MJ-12.
	Mom always kept in touch with Jimmy Doolittle.
	His wife died many years ago.
	He moved to Carmel near Monterey Bay.
	They used to stay in touch.
	When Bill Moore Came forth with the Eisenhower briefing and introduced everybody to MJ-12.
	Everybody wanted to know, what is this?
	I never heard of this.
	Is it true?
	I knew that if anybody knew the truth of whether MJ-12 was real or not, it would have been Jimmy Doolittle.
	So I talked to my mom and it took me a good six months to convince her to In one of her conversations with Jimmy Doolittle, to say something to the effect, Jimmy, John's gotten involved in this thing about UFOs, and I'd like to know if this MJ-12 is real or not.
	And he said, yes, my way it is, but I can't talk, say anything about it.
	That was what got me going on.
	Because up to that point, I didn't believe in UFOs.
	As a matter of fact, there's a letter that goes around the internet that I wrote to John Andrews of Tester's Corporation and told him, you know, to the best of my knowledge, it was all BS and not to waste his time on it.
	But anyway, with Jimmy Doodle saying that to my mom, I... At the very same time, there was a reunion in Las Vegas of the pilots in Southeast Asia that worked in covert missions,
	CIA. I worked for CASI, Continental Air Services, Inc., who did the same stuff as Air America, and we supplied.
	The troops in Laos under General Vang Pau, his picture is in the hallway there with me standing next to him at one of the reunions.
	But anyway, in one of these reunions, I ran into an old friend, his name was Greg Wilson, and he flew the A-10.
	During the conversation, I said, well, you know, what have you been doing since a while?
	He said, well, I stayed in the Air Force.
	He said, I went to different places.
	I was at Bentwaters.
	I said, Bentwaters?
	That's where the flying saucer supposedly landed in the Christmas of 1980. And he said, oh, not supposedly, John.
	It did.
	I didn't see it because I was confined to quarters.
	But I know the guys who did.
	And they say, yes, it all happened.
	Just as stated.
	And I met with Warren.
	What was Warren's name?
	Oh, Larry Warren, you mean?
	Larry Warren.
	Yeah.
	And I brought him out to Las Vegas to interview him, and also we were on the Art Bell Show together.
	Really?
	And he stayed at my house, and we spent a lot of time talking about the Bentwaters incident.
	And stayed in touch with Greg Wilson, who still flies the ATEM. He was instrumental in Gulf War I and II, and tells some interesting stories where he was circling a place that he had found where there was Scud missiles.
	Ready to launch and wanted permission to attack it.
	And whoever he was talking to said, no, don't do anything to those Scud missiles.
	What that was about, I don't know, but it certainly is interesting.
	I know that between Gulf War I and Gulf War II, that we had carriers in the Persian Gulf.
	That did nothing but send cruise missiles to bomb Iraq.
	Their cities, their schools, everything.
	And the mission was, the object was, to create terrorists that we could then attack, saying, we found more terrorists and we're going to attack them.
	When in fact it was us who created the towers.
	I kept in touch with Larry Warren and Craig Wilson and from that meeting in 1983 or 1985 the things happened to me that was just incredible from the standpoint that it kept These things kept happening to me, giving me more and more information.
	As soon as I'd finished one interesting lead, another one would pop up.
	After the Larry Warren thing and the Jimmy Doolittle thing, I was invited to Crestone, Colorado.
	It was a meeting of eight of the top ufologists at that time.
	In the United States and we met there and talked about what everyone knew.
	There was a guy there named Tom Adams.
	Have you ever interviewed him?
	Tom Adams?
	No.
	Tom lived in Texas and very involved in the UFO thing and he Handed me a letter from a person in Vegas,
	Henderson, Nevada, who now I can tell her name, but I've kept it secret for, let's see, 88, 98,000, 30 years, at her request.
	And her name is Cherry Hinkle.
	Oh, I know her.
	I know Cherry.
	She's involved with the Dulce story, isn't she?
	Right.
	So, Tom gave me a letter from Cherry, and it said that the letter said that she had a friend who was a guard at Dulce and had gotten out of Dulce with some videotape.
	Some black and white photos and 100 pages of technical information.
	And Tom gave me these.
	He said, John, I don't have time to go out there or research this.
	Would you mind contacting this lady?
	So when I got back to Vegas, I called Cherry and we set up several meetings.
	And she gave me...
	The pen, pencil drawings that she had made from the black and white photos that the guard had given her.
	Those black and white, or those pen drawings were right in that file cabinet.
	I still have them.
	And from those I traced.
	In black felt tips so that you could see exactly the pen drawings were not that clear.
	I made them much more clear and I typed some of the information and I was able to prove that I was the one that typed it because the typewriter face was An IBM executive typewriter that had proportional spacing,
	five spaces for each letter, and it was the only one of that type currently, or was in use, and I was able to prove that that was the typewriter that that information was.
	Okay, what was the information?
	The information was about Dulce and the vats and everything.
	Wasn't that also what Branton used?
	You know Branton, he's the one who...
	Now you knew him, right?
	Didn't you hang out with him?
	No.
	But I knew him.
	I have a file over there.
	Three-inch file of all of the Branton files.
	Okay, yeah.
	But did you know, I think, wasn't the security guard's name, was it Tom Campbell?
	No.
	No?
	No, I have his name.
	It's a fascinating story.
	And so you talked to Cherry, and she knew the security guard.
	There was a box that was hidden on top of a mountain.
	Six boxes.
	Six boxes.
	That the guard had made.
	They were sealed very carefully.
	Waterproof.
	Everything proof.
	And he gave one box to six friends.
	And he said, if I miss contacting you, two contacts in a row.
	You can do whatever you want with these boxes.
	The information in it was seven or eight minutes of videotape, taken in a corridor at Dulce, 25 black and white photos, and 100 pages of information.
	And so, Cherry told me about this, and she said that she had hidden her box.
	And she would take me there, and it was at, between here and Keeman, Dolan Springs.
	It had hidden Dolan Springs on the side of the mountain.
	I don't think it was at the top on the side.
	Anyway, Cherry and I drove down there, and she showed me, pointed to the mountain, or the side of the mountain, where it was.
	And the contacts, We're supposed to be every four months, and if he missed two, that means eight months, that they could do whatever they wanted with the contact.
	So anyway, it was 1996 until he missed two contacts, and he told me...
	The guard told Cherry that they had bounty hunters, and they were very professional in what they did.
	They were ex-bikers and stuff like that, and he was sure that they would get him.
	I think he went down to Costa Rica, and I don't know the facts about how they got him or if they got him, but anyway, he missed two contacts.
	Cherry went with several friends of mine.
	of mine.
	I believe one was Bill Wurzlein, or not Bill Wurzlein, Bill, who's the Bill we know?
	Hamilton?
	Hamilton.
	Bill Hamilton.
	Seriously?
	And...
	I didn't know Hamilton got involved with this.
	I I think he was.
	Before this, when I first met Cherry, she let me see these pencil drawings.
	It was from those drawings I made the black and white Felt-tip copies, and I typed some of the information on the typewriter, and I sent those out to my friends, and that's what became known as the infamous Dalsy Papers.
	And I didn't put my name on the drawings.
	I guess I should have, but I didn't.
	But they were my drawings, and also the typewritten information was...
	Typed on my IBM executive typewriter.
	Now, did you know, because I've been interviewing Mark Richards, who is part of the Secret Space Program, a captain, his wife Joanne Richards is also someone on the circuit talking about his story, but he claims that his father was an Air Force pilot called the Dutchman, and that he and his father broke...
	Flew into Dulce.
	They sent on a mission to actually rescue the humans.
	And so, did you ever encounter Mark Richards?
	Yeah, I've heard that name, but I don't remember in what context.
	Well, he's in jail for 30 years, framed for a murder.
	Oh.
	He didn't commit the murder.
	He's framed for being the mastermind.
	But I've already had his story verified by a number of people.
	And I've been visiting him now for two, three years, and I just came from there to here.
	So he is very involved in the Dulce story as well.
	And Sean David Morton, I don't know if you've been in touch with Sean, is also someone who was given a record.
	From a guy who, he didn't really die necessarily.
	We don't know what happened to him, but he was supposedly the head of Area 51 back in those years.
	And he became the head of, he was over Dulce as well.
	And he disclosed, he's now written a number of books about it based on this man's notes that were given to him by a lawyer of the man.
	And I forget the name he uses, but I think it's a fake name anyway.
	But he's a fascinating man, and Sean has got his story.
	And that also comes into the Dulce story.
	And he talked about an alien that ran Dulce that was not like the normal greys.
	He was, if I remember, taller.
	And I don't think he looked like a grey, but whatever kind of being he was.
	I think related to what we call Archons, the most closely related to that.
	He considered himself royalty, alien royalty of some kind, and that it was one guy who ran Dulcy and was a very diabolical character.
	No idea if this guy's still running Dulcy, because Dulcy's still there.
	But you ever hear that?
	Yeah, I've heard...
	I have a contact, I'm not going to say his name, who said he knew where one of the boxes, he had one of the boxes and it was buried at the top of a mountain.
	A very dangerous mountain that had all kinds of electronic force fields around it and stuff.
	And that people had tried to go up and dig it up and been unsuccessful for a number of reasons.
	There was some kind of, I don't know if there were wolves or dogs or what.
	That were up there, and it was very forbidden kind of country, you know, side and all that.
	Because I know that, you know, you never went, did you go, you went near Dulcy?
	Near.
	Yeah.
	And, of course, let's see, what's the guy who they kind of made go crazy, who was also watching Dulcy back in those days?
	Starts with a B. Phil Schneider?
	No, but I guess he also had an encounter down in Dulce.
	Is that right?
	Where he killed the alien?
	He says he did.
	I don't believe the story.
	You don't believe Phil Schneider's story.
	Why not?
	Because people that knew Phil said that he was more interested in the notoriety that he got.
	The fact that he did, in fact, work at an underground base, but it wasn't Dulcy, and that he worked his way into what was called the Dulcy Wars.
	It wasn't a war.
	What happened was, and I knew all this before any of this information came out, these 44 scientists were being given this briefing by Agrae at Dulcy.
	In a auditorium, small auditorium, and for whatever reason, a Delta Force security guard, who should have known better, because they were all briefed, do not go anywhere near a gray with any kind of weapon or ammunition, because you will be killed immediately.
	For whatever reason, this security guard walked into this auditorium and the gray killed him immediately.
	And this was witnessed by the other Delta Force who were watching all of this on a monitor.
	And they sent down a number of people, I believe it was 22 Delta Force, to take revenge.
	And the Grey killed everybody, the Delta Force and the scientists.
	And that was 66 people.
	And that became, somebody named it the Dulce Wars.
	It was not a war, it was a mistake, by the security guard.
	Now how did that story, if all those people were killed, how do you think the story came out?
	I don't know.
	I think, I'll have to think about that, but I think Cherry told me, and I think the security guard told her.
	Okay.
	Because it happened in 69, and it was before he decided to make his escape.
	Right.
	Paul Benowitz, that's the guy I was trying to remember.
	Benowitz was also watching Dulcy.
	And that's when Richard Doty, he and a bunch of agents were assigned to basically make him go crazy, to think he was crazy.
	And I think they were partially successful.
	I got so interested in the Dulce story and the tiled hallways that went on forever that when Cherry started telling me about this, you know, I had to go back to Dulce.
	So I drove there and I checked into a hotel and I was given the name of Gabe Valdez, who was the head of the highway patrol there, and I called him up and I said, my name is John Lear, and you don't know me, but I'm interested in the Dulce story, and I was told that you knew something about it.
	He says, John, you may not remember me, but I know you.
	You came here 20 years ago with steaks.
	And Dean Martin's girlfriend, he came here in a Learjet, and he was filming a movie here, and it won over time, so he wanted his steaks and his girlfriend, and so you brought the girlfriend.
	I was the guy that met you at the airport and took his girlfriend and the steaks out to the set.
	And he said, so I know you.
	I said, great.
	What are the chances of us getting together?
	He says, My shift is tonight, eight hours, if you want to drive with me, you know, I'll come and pick you up and you can spend eight hours.
	We'll go from 10 till 6 in the morning.
	And we spent the whole six hours talking about Dulce, all the stories, all the stories about his brother and Gomez and the cattle mutilations.
	It was really interesting.
	We stopped at the different places.
	That was when I was introduced to Green Chili.
	We just had a good time.
	I stayed in contact with Gabe up until just before he passed away.
	I don't remember whether it was Before or after I met Gabe, that I met Paul Benowitz.
	And Paul was, I believe, introduced to me by Chris, I can't remember his name, Chris somebody, down in Texas.
	He's still around.
	And he said, you need to talk to Paul.
	Drove to Albuquerque and met up with Paul and introduced myself and ended up staying at his house for a couple of days.
	And he told me all his stories.
	He gave me the x-ray of the girl, and I'll remember her name in a second, and I don't remember how they made contact.
	She had been taken to Dulcie.
	She either had an accident or pulled over on the side of the road or something and they had either taken her kid or they went with her or I think they took the whole car because I remember the story about the doors falling off the car inside the saucer and her description of the water and the river flowing underneath Dulcie.
	And so...
	So Benowitz, just to get back to Benowitz, he said that I think, if I remember correctly, that there was some kind of, I don't know if it was computer or electronic, you know, communication, you know, with him and electronics being sent, you know, aimed at him.
	And this is way back in, I guess it's the 60s, right?
	Is it the 60s?
	No, that would be...
	I went there in 87, and all of this had been going on, so it couldn't be any earlier than the early 80s.
	Really?
	I always thought Benowitz was much earlier than that for some reason.
	I could be wrong.
	Maybe I have another timeline.
	I could be wrong, too.
	Now, the thing is that...
	Do you remember, do you think that there was artificial intelligence involved in that?
	Do you think, did he exhibit, I don't know whether his breakdown or whatever they call it, happened after you met with him?
	I mean, did you know him during those days or had he recovered slightly?
	Because I thought he died of it, you know, some kind of breakdown.
	He had recovered somewhat.
	When I got there, he was totally coherent.
	He just told me the story from beginning to end.
	We went to dinner once with Colonel Ernie Edwards.
	I think Benowitz was either with us or...
	I don't remember how it happened, but we had a picture taken on the Archuleta Mesa.
	Paul had these pictures, and he was pointing at something, and he was saying, that's one of the ships right there.
	And so later, when I was alone with Colonel Edwards, I said, now, Ernie, I don't see anything there, do you?
	And he said, no, I don't, but he sure does.
	And so we had some interesting Things happen with with Ernie Edwards.
	I stayed in contact with him and he one night trying to think there was a total blackout of the radar all around Albuquerque and we were trying to find out what caused it and Ernie said Well,
	it was probably because they were bringing a black ship through and they didn't want anybody to see it.
	And I said, now, Ernie, you're part of the government.
	You're not supposed to be talking about black ships.
	And he said, well, that's the way I saw it, you know.
	Okay, now there's a couple things.
	Los Alamos, you know, in Albuquerque, down from...
	You know, down the mountain.
	Richard Hoagland lives up the mountain from Los Alamos.
	You know, the base of Los Alamos is down there.
	And it somehow is linked to Dulce.
	There's a high-speed transport, but it's, you know, like 80 miles or something like that.
	Yeah, okay.
	And there's another thing, there's a story that goes that...
	Whenever you go to Dulce or go in that area, I guess it's around Dulce, maybe the town of Dulce, I don't know, there's some kind of strange things that go on, like alien women that wait on you in restaurants and, you know, people have reported this kind of thing.
	I don't remember that.
	All right.
	And I don't know if you know who Anthony Sanchez is.
	Yeah, I've heard the name.
	No, he really investigated Dulce in a more recent time, and he went up there himself.
	He did contact some kind of, I don't know, facial nerve agent that froze the side of his face or something temporarily.
	He did recover from that, but he was very scared by what happened.
	And he had some other kind of physical things going on when he went up there.
	So he actually went up on the Mesa, I guess maybe Archuleta Mesa.
	And he had someone, an Indian, I think it might have been a Native American guide, because they seemed very familiar with that.
	So I don't know if you've ever heard those stories.
	Yeah, I've heard those.
	I'm trying to remember who came up with the first original story.
	Detailed drawings of Dulce showed all the levels and what was going on at each level.
	And I don't remember whether those were part of the Dulce papers.
	I don't think they were.
	But I do remember they were very detailed.
	You know, there's another witness who came out not that long ago.
	He gave a deathbed confession.
	And I've got his video interview on my, you know, linked on my site.
	He was actually interviewed, I think, by Rich Dolan and Linda Moulton Howe right before he died.
	And he literally, he was an ex, I believe, CIA, or even current CIA agent.
	And he gave a deathbed confession about Dulce.
	And he was involved in...
	He said, the president, and I'm not sure which president it was, Truman or Eisenhower, I think was one of them.
	If I remember correctly, I'd have to go back and listen to the interview, but ordered them to go in and try to attack Dulcy, you know, to get them to take it over again, you know, to get it back into the hands of the government of the United States.
	And he was one of the guys sent in to do that.
	Apparently they failed, from what I understand.
	One thing Mark Richards told me is that even though they went in to rescue a lot of the humans that were, I guess, in cages and whatnot, they rescued him, and he said the sad thing is that the Greys went right back and abducted them again.
	So it was like it never happened.
	Yeah, it was totally an ET operation, although we were trying to make it.
	A joint U.S. ET operation, which it wasn't.
	So the story about us going into taking it over may be true, but there's no way we're going to take anything over from ETs.
	I remember my first interview with Bill Moore.
	He didn't want to meet with me at all, but I went down to Van Nuys, Sherman Oaks, and Made an appointment.
	We're going to meet at a restaurant.
	He was about an hour late, but I met with him, and he gave me this briefing about the EBEs were only about 300 years ahead of us, which even then sounded like total bullshit.
	300 years?
	You've got to be kidding me.
	And a lot of this other stuff.
	And he was passing it to the guy that worked at JPL. And then the guy that worked at JPL was passing it to me.
	And he was tied in closely with Doty.
	And both he and Doty were claiming that they were the ones that engineered the psychological...
	Tampering with Benowitz's mind and so on and so on.
	Another thing I regret, other than not going to see my SEAL team member, whose name was Scotty Lyon, was Benowitz called me about a month before he died.
	He said, John, I would sure like to talk to you.
	And he said, a lot of water has gone over the bridge, under the bridge, since you came here and spent some time with me, but I need to tell you some things.
	And at that time, I was as broke as I am now and didn't have any money to go to Albuquerque.
	I'm sorry I didn't try to get there, but...
	He died about a month after he made that phone call.
	Right.
	I don't know what he was going to tell me, but he certainly had a lot of interesting information.
	Now, the one thing that I got, that he gave me the two things I got, was the x-ray of, what's her name, and I'll remember her name in a second.
	Who was abducted to Dulcie.
	Yeah, wasn't it, I don't know, Candy or, I don't know, something like that?
	Yeah.
	You had an x-ray, you're saying.
	Oh, that's right.
	The x-ray, it was of her, and it had a, of her neck, and it had a little piece of wire there, nothing you could see, and Ron McGare knew that I had it.
	And he asked if he could have it or borrow it, and I gave it to him, and I haven't seen it since.
	And I don't know whether it would be any good or not, but one thing that Benowitz gave me was a 25-page, handwritten, word-for-word document of Leo Sprinkle.
	Interviewing the girl.
	Ah, okay.
	And I always wanted to get it transcribed and never got around to it until about a year ago.
	And one of Marilee's friends was looking for work and I said, well here, I'll give you a few bucks if you'll type this up for me.
	And she did and I have a copy and I'll show it to her if you want to see it.
	Alright, yeah.
	I'm trying to think.
	I just saw it.
	Yesterday or today, because I was going through some files, and I said, I've got to do something with this.
	So it's not very far away.
	Leo Sprinkle, I believe Michael Schratt, you know who he is, the aerospace historian, Michael Schratt.
	I believe he has gotten involved with some of the Leo Sprinkle stuff, and he'd be very interested, I'm sure, to see that.
	Okay.
	So is she still alive?
	I mean, what happened to her?
	Who?
	The woman who...
	Oh, I don't know what happened to her.
	I don't remember what happened to her after she...
	Because she wasn't there when I interviewed Benowitz or when I stayed at his house.
	But there was another family involved during that time, and I don't think they were involved with Benowitz, but...
	It was so odd.
	It was a family of two or three guys, ages 20 to 25, and I think a woman, and the mother, and they had been driving through the Dulce area, and they all had...
	This story about Dulcy and being stopped, and they had a talking dog.
	They had a dog, and the dog was talking.
	And it turns out that one of the guys was a tower operator at Nellis.
	And he would...
	Give me some, you know, interesting information.
	And there was several guys at Nellis that used to come up to that gate.
	That gate wasn't there, but there was some other obstruction.
	And they would hang around there until I came out.
	They would give me information, like one of the information was where the cargo came from that came into Nellis.
	And one was Groom Lake, the other was Tonawattah Strange, and the other was Coyote Springs.
	And we were never able to find out where Coyote Springs is, except I think I know where it is.
	I think it's several miles to the west of Pioch.
	The reason I think it's there is I'll show you a map of the secret places in and around Nevada or in and around Southern Nevada.
	And one of them is right near that Coyote Springs or Coyote Wells, whatever it was.
	And those two guys gave me That information, along with some other stuff, and I don't remember what the other stuff was.
	And then, prior to that, when I gave the lecture at the Spring Valley Library, it created such an uproar, nearly caused...
	My divorce primarily because so many people were calling, the phone was ringing off the hook, people that wanted copies of this and copies of that, and would I give them an interview?
	And she was just going out of her mind.
	She finally took all my files and hit them and changed my phone number so that nobody could contact me.
	But they still got a hold of me.
	That's how I... I ran into Bob Lazar.
	One of the guys that called and wanted information was Gene Huff.
	And he said, I told him what I just told you.
	Marilyn's taken everything.
	He says, well, you know, if you can ever retrieve it or get it, he said, I'd like to have a copy and I'll trade you an appraisal of your house.
	And so Marilyn and I... Continually broke.
	I went to her and he said, okay, well, let's do that.
	So she gave me enough material to give to him to get the appraisal.
	And he still complains about that, even though it's been 30 years.
	He had no idea that the appraisal was of a 7,700 square foot house.
	But he was forced to give an appraisal for the stuff I had.
	And so when he came over to do the measurements, He brought a friend of his, who he introduced as Bob Lazar, and Bob handed me a copy of his resume and graduation certificates from MIT and Caltech.
	And I put him, you know, just behind my desk, like, reach back and put it there for filing, and never saw him again.
	When it became important, you know, but so much stuff has disappeared from...
	Really?
	From this den, there's always monitoring 24-7.
	My kids at the time were teenagers, and they were continually wanting to change numbers and switch phones and stuff.
	So we had one Centell guy, and in those days it was called Centell.
	Coming up here to do the work.
	And he came in one day and he said, John, your phone's tapped.
	And I said, I figured that.
	And he said, do you mind if I find out where the tap is coming from?
	Help yourself.
	So he came back about a half hour later and he said, I went down Monroe to Hollywood, Hollywood to Bonanza, and Bonanza down to Nellis, and it's further than that.
	The tap.
	And he said, I'm going to have to go to the mainframe, and I'll do that tomorrow.
	But this is kind of interesting.
	So a couple days later, he comes in, shows up at the door and says, John, I can't work on your phones anymore.
	And I said, why?
	He said, your phone has tapped the mainframe, and there is no paperwork to accompany it.
	And I went and told my boss, and she said, If I didn't like my job, I could quit.
	And he said, I need this job.
	That was the last I saw him.
	And then Bob's phone was tapped.
	All of her phones were tapped.
	Yeah, no, I want to ask you about Bob Lazar because, you know, he came back out.
	He did an interview, I guess you know, with...
	With George Knapp not long ago.
	I mean, it's a year or two ago, three years or four years.
	He did part of it here and part of it.
	So he came out and then he disappeared again.
	And from what I understand, he actually went back to work for them again.
	Now, is that what you know?
	I heard that story and I asked Bob about it.
	He said, well...
	If it's true, how come all the people that I work with here at my business see me all the time and I've never disappeared for any length of time?
	Okay, but he stopped talking.
	He stopped talking.
	He doesn't want to do any more interviews, apparently.
	No, he talked to George.
	Yeah, that was it.
	Well, he didn't do anything before that, actually.
	Right.
	No, I've asked him a number of times.
	Oh.
	He's not doing interviews.
	That's what I heard.
	Okay.
	He may be working there, but if he is, boy, I'll tell you, it's really a well-organized job because he'd have to get from Detroit, Michigan to, you know, the test site.
	For however long they wanted to work there.
	Well, I mean, you know, this day and age, first of all, I don't know, maglev trains, etc.
	But aside from that, you can still work for somebody, you know, from your house, right?
	Absolutely.
	So, you know, you have a secure server, whatever it is.
	It just doesn't rule it out, that's all I'm saying.
	You know, I can't make any conjecture about what he's doing or what he isn't doing.
	It's kind of interesting, though.
	So, have you heard of the Venture Star?
	The what?
	Venture Star.
	Yeah, what is that?
	So, it's a sort of a slightly triangular, but it's not a triangle.
	It's a, you know, and it was said to be, it was coming up out of the ground.
	According to Gordon Novell, it was coming up out of the ground.
	Up in somewhere near, I think it was Dugway, you know, Utah.
	And it would go take a bunch of scientists.
	It didn't, it wasn't a huge plane.
	It's been in several, actually a kind of facsimile of it in several movies, and it's been on the internet.
	There's a photograph of it.
	It's a very nice looking kind of rounded triangular plane, but it's kind of narrowish, yeah.
	That's right.
	Yeah, and it carries, I don't know, scientists supposedly back and forth to, I don't know, Mars or the Moon.
	That's the story.
	Just wondered if you'd heard that.
	I heard that story from several different people.
	One guy represented himself as having worked on it at the Skunk Works.
	He had convinced a friend of mine that Bob Lazar was full of it, that that thing was what they were working on, and on and on and on.
	And I eventually proved to these guys that Bob was the real deal.
	At least I thought he was.
	And that, that picture surfaced.
	Another one that Gordon Vell was showing around was something that stupid-ass, what do they call it?
	This thing that looked like a triangle and had seats like that.
	And this is the one that was supposedly shown off at Norton Air Force Base to the congressman.
	Do you remember that?
	I think so.
	Anyway, Gordon Avella used to show that around.
	Gordon and I had disagreements over the years.
	I guess he finally passed away here a couple of years ago.
	That's right.
	He went into the hospital with, from what I understand, a foot or toe injury, and he never came out again.
	Oh, really?
	And right before he died, he called me up, and I talked to him.
	I was actually driving across the desert at the time back from some conference or whatever it was.
	And he told me that, you know, he was trying to put together a team to build the reverse engineered, you know, craft.
	And I think it's called the RV something.
	Anyway, and he actually gave me a picture of it.
	That's what this is.
	And he was working with Mark McClanlish on it and all that stuff.
	And he had Hal Pudoff and a whole bunch of scientists and a bunch of people involved in what he was trying to do to build this craft.
	He needed funding and he was...
	You know who Ron Pandolfi was or is?
	And he was head of the so-called strange desk at CIA back in those days.
	But at the same time, he was always the handler for Gordon.
	He and Ron Pandolfi used to be on the ins or the outs.
	They had a very sort of tumultuous relationship, but he really seemed to like Ron Pandolfi a lot.
	But apparently the time he talked to me right before he died, he said he was fed up.
	They seemed to be using him almost like a patsy.
	And he said he had funding and he was going to go to the Arabs for funding because he was sick of being run around the block by Hollywood and the United States and all this stuff.
	And then he died.
	So I actually think he died because they made it.
	You know, happen.
	I'm sure that my opinion on this is probably not going to be popular with the family, but that's...
	The opinion of what?
	That he was probably knocked off.
	Yeah, you know, he was so out in left field on his stuff.
	uh Maybe he was, but I don't think he knew enough to be knocked off.
	Well, apparently putting this company together that he was trying to do and he was trying to, you know, he's trying to basically build a UFO and they didn't want him to.
	And the last thing they wanted him to do was get funding.
	I even went to a meeting where he was meeting with a top Hollywood entrepreneur, executive, whatever.
	And I'm not gonna say the guy's name, but he was legitimate.
	And they were, you know, they were moving forward.
	Whether you want to believe what, you know, they could achieve, I don't know.
	But, you know, he had a binder this thick of plans, etc.
	I mean, he wasn't idle towards his death.
	So it's interesting.
	What can you tell us about the years intervening?
	because, you know, you've been on this case for a very long time and you see where we've gone.
	I guess you've watched the whole surveillance, you know, society come forward with Snowden.
	You know, Snowden is like, from our point of view, the tip of the iceberg.
	He's not really going where we've gone and the information we have.
	What do you think about the current situation we're in?
	It's pretty interesting, you know.
	you talk about guys like Phil Schneider Supposedly getting knocked off and Gordon DeVille supposedly getting knocked off.
	Why haven't I been knocked off?
	I certainly know more than those guys.
	But you're a real old boy.
	I went and saw Bob Dean right before I came here a month ago, I think, when his birthday, right near his birthday.
	And he's like, I think he's 88 now, and he's going blind.
	And he's an old boy, and I told him that I was coming to see you, and he said, yeah.
	He said, do it.
	In other words, you guys are kind of protected.
	You're part of the old guard, in my opinion.
	Well, I don't get it.
	Who was the guy that did the taking out the stuff from abductees?
	But why was he knocked out?
	Exactly.
	Well, we don't know that he was, but there's a very bizarre story.
	I know Maria Talcott, and that story about John Mack is a fascinating one about how he died.
	He apparently stepped out on a corner in the UK and was hit by a car.
	But at the same time...
	This is a story, it seems to be documented, and I think it's Maria Talcott that tells it and knows the details, and she worked for him.
	But basically, a number of, I know this sounds crazy, John Max, in Britain, died on the same day.
	And there's some very bizarre situation that went down with that.
	That would almost lend itself towards, you know, That's kind of like an occult planned targeting.
	There's a lot going on on the planet that we don't know about, obviously, with all the ETs here and also the unseen entities, etc., that come and go.
	So, you know, but yeah, I mean, I appreciate that you haven't been knocked off.
	I mean, that's a gift.
	Obviously to us.
	I can tell you that since I've been on my way here and I went to interview Mark Richards and now you in the span of a couple days, my website has now been down off the internet, attacked, and has been off for four days.
	It's finally gone back up.
	So why attack my website now if it doesn't matter what you have to say?
	You know what I'm saying?
	You know, why don't they leave me alone?
	Because they have messed with me in a big way.
	They're always doing something crazy to do with my website or, you know, all kinds of back channel stuff.
	Now, they haven't knocked me off, but they did try, actually, a couple times.
	I got some death threats.
	In fact, I know it's crazy.
	I just got another one, a recent death threat, supposedly, coming out of Europe for some unknown reason.
	I don't know why.
	You know, maybe these things are bogus.
	You just don't know, right?
	But there's a couple I know that were real.
	You've had heavy, heavy surveillance.
	We know that much.
	Yeah.
	I haven't been out of this room for eight years except to go to the hospital or go to a doctor.
	Wow.
	And I have just felt really, really terrible.
	I take methadone, I take oxycodone, heavy doses, and other stuff that a friend of mine who's knowledgeable in all this says, you know, a CIA guy has to be giving you this stuff because there's no reason why you should be taking these pills.
	And so we've cut out almost all of them, except the methadone and oxycodone.
	And I do a little bit of the internet, but not much.
	And it's nice to have you come and visit, to talk to somebody who knows much of what's going on.
	But right now, what I want to do is...
	I'm going to get up and I'm going to walk over to that side of the room and show you something.
	And then I'm going to walk over there and get a map of these bases.
	If I was a conspiracist, I would say that, you know, go out this door and look on the mountain and there is all kinds of antennas.
	And that is one strange looking mountain.
	And a lot of the antennas or things used to be on this side of the mountain pointing down here and I had some videotape because they changed something every Tuesday morning at nine o'clock and I could set my watch by that and they...
	Bring a helicopter in, and it's one of these helicopters that they could just set down on one skid, and the guy would jump out and change something, or get something, then get back in the helicopter and leave.
	Now, they haven't been doing that in a long time, but there's no reason that with the surveillance stuff they have now, there's no reason that they have to do it.
	Yeah, it's always strange.
	Thank you.
	In the morning, I would continuously fly the perimeter.
	So during that time, I saw them take off the top of the mountain right here.
	And only later did I find that that's where they were going to build Sandia, which was the new secret base where they were moving everything from NORAD and every place to.
	In central Nevada, they took the top off a mountain, built Sandia under what they took off, and then put the top back on.
	SUVs, white SUVs, driving around there.
	And sometimes we'd follow them, and they'd disappear into thin air.
	He says, hey, tell me something.
	Is it true what John Lear says, that there's an elevator that goes down to the Pacific at Hawthorne and the guy goes...
	Great.
	Do you think that you've ever met an alien?
	I mean, don't you think you might have by now?
	Oh, absolutely.
	25% of the people on Earth are aliens.
	The only difference that he could tell...
	Was that every once in a while, he had an inner eyelid that would close and then open up.
	And he said it really freaked him out the first time he saw that.
	The tall gray said, what do you want?
	And Bill says, I don't understand.
	What do you mean, what do I want?
	He says, well, you're here.
	You came here to see us.
	You obviously had some questions.
	Happy birthday, John Lear.
	The Bob Lazar birthday gift.
	Periodic table of elements.
	Element John Lear.
	The periodic table of 116 is JL. It's a human solvent.
	The atomic mass is 256.89.
	Occurrence found primarily in Nevada.
	Physical properties.
	It is rare on stable element.
	It is best known for its remarkable ability to resist common sense and facts.
	Applied liberally, JL has been known to improve the quality of lawns.
	It is also known to absorb great quantities of expensive substances.
	It is one of the most money-reducing agents known to man.
	Mental and financial damage.
	So he gave you that white mug that's in the picture there.
	So that's what we need to be looking for here.
	I almost finished this wall but it has all the really neat stuff that I came across and one thing that I came across is I had a floppy When I had the little floppy disk,
	that was a DEM digital, I think it's electronic measurement, but it's how they used to measure the elevation of the terrain.
	And they'd do it from an airplane or helicopter.
	And then later, they were able to do it from satellite, and they got rid of doing these things by helicopter and airplane.
	But this floppy was given to me, and one day, fooling around with different parts of the floppy, in other words, going vertical, one to three, and different things of it.
	This part of S4 came up, and it's an excavation.
	Now, the Bob Lars X4 is right here, but there's two excavations, one here and one on the other side.
	This is the one on the other side.
	That's S4, the hangar doors.
	I drew that in.
	And this is the...
	This is the excavation and somewhere else I'll find it is this little white spot.
	It's at the bottom of the excavation and it looks like some kind of a flying vehicle.
	I don't know what it could be but when I find it I'll show it to you because it's so interesting and why it should be there and how I could have come up with that one One excavation, which is, you know, right near Papoose Lake.
	Incredible stuff.
	This thing is a picture of Groom Lake, and I can't remember where I got this, whether I got this off the internet or what, but that is Groom Lake there.
	That white spot.
	Okay.
	And then there's Papus Lake.
	Right.
	And then here's a cloud.
	And I called it Mysterious Cloud because there's no other cloud in the world, I mean, around Groom Lake except right there.
	So they must have been hiding something.
	Well, that's very interesting because on the way in we drove past Area 51, you know, along the 95. There were clouds, very strange cylindrical clouds that looks mysteriously like they're a hiding craft right over what would in theory be the Area 51 area.
	And the whole sky was clear except for those three clouds.
	So we have a picture.
	I can probably put it on this video.
	It's very possible because I... So that's interesting you mentioned that.
	There's also a white mug here.
	I don't know if this is the one you're looking for.
	Is this it?
	Okay, so you wanted to show us this from Bob Lazar, is that right?
	That he gave me for my birthday.
	Okay, very cool.
	Element 116, John Lear.
	That's charming.
	So I guess he wrote something on here as well.
	Have you seen John Leonard Walson's the moon footage, close-ups of the moon?
	John Leonard Walson, you know, the photographer?
	He's a good friend of ours.
	He's coming down here and stayed with me for a couple of days.
	He is or he did?
	He's going to.
	Well, he's a friend of ours.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	He's going to fix my telescope because...
	He's amazing.
	One day I woke up and it's just black, so...
	I don't have any money to send it to Torrance where Celestron is, but he said, no problem, I'll fix it when I come down.
	Excellent.
	Well, I'm so happy to hear that you're in touch with him because he's a great guy.
	He's taken some unbelievably good photos.
	Well, this is a Paiute Mesa here.
	Okay, between...
	This is...
	You should have a magnifying glass.
	Right up here is the Tonopah test range.
	Right.
	And Groom Lake is right here.
	Oh, yeah?
	And this is the Paiute Mesa.
	All right.
	And this is where the new SICA base is.
	And as they knew, it's 20 years old because when I was employed by the Nevada test site to fly the perimeter of where they would Set off underground nuclear blasts.
	My job was in the morning I would continuously fly the perimeter and going up and down from ground level to 10,000 feet and giving the wind so that they were sure that if it vented by accident that they knew which way the bad stuff was going to blow.
	During that time, I saw them take off the top of the mountain right here.
	And only later did I find that that's where they were going to build Sandia, which was the new secret base where they're removing everything from NORAD and every place to in central Nevada.
	Yeah, but where is, could you say where 95 or Vegas are in relation to this?
	That's the cutoff of 95 where you drive up a little ways and they have a guard shack.
	And then that goes to the radar station up there.
	And 95 just winds around down there.
	Alright, yep.
	And the tunnel by test range is just out of sight on that.
	Grim Lake is just out of sight there.
	Anyway, these are two lakes, dry lakes.
	This is where Sandia was built.
	They took the top off a mountain, built Sandia under what they took off, and then put the top back on.
	And in there are five holes about...
	Several hundred feet in diameter, and they go down a mile, and they hold 25,000 combat troops, each one.
	And the reason we know that is because a friend of Bob's father drove one of the cement trucks, and he said there was hundreds of cement trucks all day long, going in and out, in and out, and driving down, spiraling down.
	It's called Sandia, and now people say, oh, Sandia, that's the Sandia Mountain Range and Elkirky and Sandia Corporation.
	I said yes, because now what they're doing is naming the new stuff, the old names, so that if somebody accidentally mentions that, it won't register as a new area.
	That's right.
	A lot of misdirects around Sandia.
	It turns out I have a piece of paper that somebody got off the internet.
	It was by accident on a military channel and it says where my mine was out in the South Virgin Mountains that Sandia extends all the way out there.
	And many occasions we saw We had white SUVs driving around there, and sometimes we'd follow them, and they'd disappear into thin air.
	And I showed that to one of the BLM Rangers, and he was a little bit...
	He didn't believe it at first, and then he came in one morning and said, God damn it, I saw one of those things, and I followed them and lost it.
	That's great.
	So, yeah, so they have those false entrances and...
	Those what?
	False entrances and mountains that, you know...
	Yeah, there's one down by Nelson Landing, and the guy that...
	He's not with BLM anymore.
	He was going to move somewhere.
	This guy was nuts.
	But, as most people with BLM are, and he was patrolling...
	A wash near the Nelson Landing.
	And he said he came upon a huge door that was open.
	And he kind of looks inside here and there's all kinds of computer equipment and typewriters and everything.
	And they tried to move the door and it wouldn't move.
	So he called the only number he had for Creech Air Force Base.
	And at that time, I think it was still Indian Springs.
	And he said, I'm down here at Nelson and you guys better come down here because there's a door that's open.
	And they said, don't know what you're talking about, sir.
	And he said, okay, you may not know what I'm talking about, but there's a door that's open and somebody needs to come down here and close it.
	And a voice comes on and says, I'm sorry, sir, I don't know what you're talking about.
	Then a completely different voice comes on and says, Stay right there.
	We'll be there in 15 minutes.
	Don't move.
	Great stuff.
	And he came down with a helicopter and he walked away.
	He didn't want to know anything about it because there's so many of those secret places down there.
	Now right here is...
	The Sandia office, laboratory, and sleeping hoarders, and here is where they have a new strip.
	Now, I'll show you on my Google map that there's nothing indicated.
	I mean, it's just, like, just grass.
	Yeah, we noticed that as well, actually, on the way down here.
	On the side of, on the 51 side of so-called, of 95, going in that direction, there's nothing.
	Yeah.
	Zero.
	So they've blacked the whole thing out.
	This you have to drive in quite a bit and I gave George Knapp a complete set of accurate directions of how to get there and what they have now is a way of hiding stuff.
	They have a little machine they can set up and it will hide roads.
	Or hide buildings, or hide anything.
	And in this case, it hid the cutoff that George was supposed to take to find that new strip there.
	And he never did find it.
	He wound up at the entrance to the Totem by test train.
	I haven't been up there, and I don't drive up there anymore.
	But anyway, this is where the new strip is, and there's two strips.
	And these were described to me by a mine inspector who has to inspect cement mines or any kind of mine, and there's a cement facility there that's used to supply the strips and everything else that they're building around there.
	Took them out to lunch.
	He said they built two strips, northwest to southeast, and he said in the middle of these strips there's a hanger that goes from one end of the strips to the other.
	And I said, well, I know what that is.
	They said what they can do is test an airplane out of one set of hangers and use that.
	Runway so that the other people on the other side can't see it.
	And then when they're done, the people on the other side can bring their airplane out and fly on the other side and nobody can see it.
	So that's what those trips are.
	And then he said, as the road comes around here, To the other side of these strips, he said there's these little igloos.
	They're about eight feet high.
	They're just like igloos, shaped like igloos.
	And there was five of them.
	And he said there's two armed guards in front of each one with their weapons at port arms like that.
	And he said there's two guards.
	Shacks.
	One, when you get near the place, and then right after that is obvious the place where the sleeping quarters and stuff like that, and the other is when you get close enough that you're actually getting into the aircraft base itself.
	So let me find this.
	Igles.
	That's really bizarre.
	Don't know what the hell could be in there.
	As we drove down the 95, you know, there is a place before you get to Vegas that does have this really weird little white, I don't know, huts kind of carved into a white basalt kind of like...
	Yeah, that's it.
	You think that's it?
	Sounds like it.
	There was tons of them, though.
	I don't know about...
	They didn't have guards at this one, but this is some kind of natural land formation that I don't understand.
	It crops up over there.
	Have you heard about the high-speed maglev train that goes from Luxor to Zambia?
	Oh, from the Luxor?
	Yeah.
	Oh, right.
	Okay, yeah.
	I thought I had, but why don't you go ahead and tell us more about it?
	Because that's actually great.
	Special Projects Airplane, 737 Park.
	Right across from the Luxor into the western side of the McCarran Airport, and that's where the 737 Spark.
	And they just built a brand new hangar facility.
	It really looks cool.
	It looks space-age.
	And so all they have to do, if somebody comes in from out of town and they're going to Sandia, All they have to do is get out of the airplane at the Sandia base,
	get on the moving walkway and it takes you, first the escalator takes you down and then the moving walkway takes you quite a ways to directly under the Luxor where their parking is.
	They get out of the walkway and they can go where the parking is but also what there is is a high-speed maglev train that can get to Groom Lake in 10 minutes.
	Great.
	Now what is this a map of here?
	This?
	Yeah.
	Okay, we're showing, this is Southern Nevada.
	And what I'm showing you first is, this is McCarran Airport in the Luxor.
	Right.
	And these dashed lines are the maglev tracks.
	And that goes from the Luxor to the Bellagio.
	And the reason they go to the Bellagio is the Bellagio has infinite underground parking for the 2,000 people that work at Sandia.
	I knew it.
	You know, this is so weird.
	Last night, I had a psychic impression.
	We went to the Luxor last night.
	We were at the Bellagio earlier, and I said, the two places I think that these Maglev trains go out of, I was just thinking to myself.
	Is Bellagio and Luxor.
	This is really bizarre.
	In 2004, and I have it on my computer, all of the stories in the review journal, but what happened is they were building another set of tracks that went from the Bellagio, not to Sandia, but to Groom Lake.
	What happened is the backhoe dug 25 feet deeper than it should have and hit the main power grid of the Bellagio and knocked it out for three days.
	Now why this is so disastrous is, number one, casinos go to unbelievable lengths to be sure that no power is ever lost.
	Because it represents millions and millions of dollars to them.
	And not only that, but if it's knocked out, what do they do then?
	They can't tell Nevada Power, because Nevada Power doesn't know anything about it.
	And nobody there has a clearance to know anything about it.
	And so it was a three-day...
	Disaster, which was fun for those of us that knew it, because we knew that nobody could tell anybody anything.
	And it was kind of hilarious.
	I collected all those, and I am...
	What year was that?
	2004. I'll make you copy.
	I'll make you copy.
	But let me ask you, they're going to Groom Lake, don't...
	My understanding is they can also go to Australia from there.
	Yeah.
	Yeah.
	And Washington, D.C., and probably the L.A. base.
	They have a transportation system that the Navy originally found out that went out of the submarine base, submarine pens in San Diego.
	And when they found this thing, initially they didn't know what it was.
	They didn't build it.
	Nobody, humans, built it.
	Somebody else built it.
	And it would take them any place in the world in, you know, a half hour.
	Australia included.
	So, that goes to Groom Lake.
	Now, here's the place that I think is Coyote Wells.
	Here's Pioch.
	And...
	This is out in the desert.
	Now this is interesting because I have a friend that was chief pilot there for 20 years and of course I would never presume on anybody, any of my friends that worked for special projects.
	But it was interesting because they went to a couple of secret places.
	One was this place and a friend of mine Got a job as a flight attendant just to find out where that was.
	And he worked with him for about three months, and he said that all he could tell from where he's at in the airplane is when they opened the door, and they had what they call air stairs, that the stairs come out of the airplane.
	And so when they opened the door, he said it was just desert.
	And he said there was a small hill about 100 feet away from where the door opened.
	And he said he'd watch the passengers get out, and they'd just walk behind this pile of sand and disappear.
	And that's where I think it was.
	Now, the thing is, I've driven up there, and there's security vehicles that only come out if you...
	Head towards that way.
	So I think that's where one of them is.
	Now, the black airplanes, the Delta Wing airplanes, fly out of this place.
	Now this is Wendover, it used to be Air Force Base.
	That's where they did all the speed runs and Craig Breedlove did the speed runs and that's Utah and that's Nevada.
	And that's 44 miles south.
	That's where one of the Maglev trains go to.
	Well, I mean, we heard from Pete Peterson a while back that, of course, there's tons of stuff in Utah that they set up, right?
	And also Idaho.
	So that they've moved up from Nevada into, you know, Utah and into...
	So that would be correct.
	Either Popular Science or Popular Mechanics put out a story that...
	Area 51 is shut down and we know where it went to.
	That was bullshit.
	Oh, yeah, no.
	I never believed that either.
	The place where they put in their magazine was a range for when they shot missiles off from down in El Magordo.
	It was just where the missiles landed.
	It wasn't where they located Area 51. They're trying to keep all the secret stuff.
	In Nevada, down in that way.
	So I have, the way I first found out about this, a guy came here working on the electricity and putting up lamps, saw the maps and stuff.
	He said, you know, he said, I was, he said, my deer tag a couple years ago was, For that area right there.
	And he said he parked on this road right where it makes this curve right here.
	And he said he parked there and hiked over that one mountain range.
	And he said he was going to go to hike over one more mountain range to get to that dry lake there.
	And he started seeing white SUVs.
	And he had spent his time in Vietnam in escape and evade.
	And he was able to manage to hide himself and not get caught.
	But he said, there's something there.
	And he said, that's where, he said, if I could have hiked over the...
	Other range, he said, I'm sure that Dry Lake is where they keep something.
	Now, out of Hill Air Force Base is the story we were told.
	A security guard there one day was told, stay here for a couple minutes, we're going to show you something.
	And he said one of these black triangles came over, no sound, no nothing.
	Slowly came over the field and then pointed up and went out of sight.
	And pretty sure it came from there.
	Right.
	And so that is right on the border of Utah, correct?
	Yeah, it's right on the border, 44 miles south of Wendover Field.
	And then a friend of mine used to drive up to Utah.
	Every weekend.
	And he said that he would drive up 93 or 95, whatever it is, and he said just before you get to Ely,
	there's a long sloping up Uphill drive and he said he would always rest there because that was where he needed to get some rest and he'd go to sleep at 3 and wake up at 5 and continue his journey up to Utah and he said the one
	time he parked right there before this long And he said for some reason he woke up at 4 and he looked out the window and way in the distance was what looked like a runway except it had blue lights instead of white lights.
	And he said they never went out.
	He never saw anything land or take off.
	But he said it was right there before that.
	The road goes, starts to climb.
	And that's the Ely Airport there, so I believe that there may be something there.
	Well, did you know about Charles Hall and the Tall Whites?
	Yeah.
	And I've met Charles Hall, and he's a legitimate guy.
	He's really telling the truth, in my opinion.
	And when you drive down the 95, you're driving right by, according to him, Indian Wells and that whole area is where he was stationed to patrol.
	And it goes for quite a number of miles.
	And that was, I think, his home base was in the Indian Wells area.
	No, his home base was...
	I've got a...
	Well, it's a military base.
	He had to report.
	His home base was...
	Was Indian Springs.
	Right.
	And the place where he relocated, the government gave him the funds to build a hangar.
	And according to Chuck Hall, it was maybe 10 or 15 miles northwest of Dogbone Lake.
	And I'll show you a picture of Dogbone Lake.
	Area 51 over there.
	There's Area 51. Dogbone Lake, I got a better picture of it somewhere.
	It's right there.
	And the mountains where that hangar door that you saw was right there.
	Okay.
	So, come on, with all your travels, John, do you think that you've ever met an alien?
	I mean, don't you think you might have by now?
	Oh, absolutely.
	25% of the people on Earth are aliens.
	Well, I agree with that.
	I agree.
	I think it's higher than that.
	We humans are here on Earth for only one reason.
	The reason is to learn to live our lives with integrity and without envy, hate, or greed.
	And for some reason in our lifetime, and both you and I have lived hundreds of lifetimes.
	Hundreds of lifetimes.
	And for some reason in our last lifetime we screwed up and we're down here with everybody else that screwed up and the only difference between them and us is I'm telling you the reason we're here and they don't know why we're people don't know why they're here because that's not a program they don't tell them you have to find it out by yourself so I've been told I have a special pass Whether that's true or not,
	I don't know.
	But somebody asked me if they could make hats and license plates with integrity without envy, hate, or greed, and we've got some of those.
	And it looks kind of interesting.
	And the tall white story is absolutely true.
	And then Bill Hamilton came by here with his wife.
	One day, and let's see, it was a Sunday night.
	He said, we're going up to Grim Lake, and we're going to just park by the black mailbox, and we're going to stay there until something happens.
	And I said, okay, well, when are you going to go back?
	He said, I'll be back Wednesday night.
	I said, okay, you want to drive by here when you come back?
	He said, yeah.
	So...
	Monday night, he calls.
	I said, how's it going?
	He said, something strange happened.
	He says, I'll be there tomorrow night.
	We'll see.
	And I said, okay.
	So, I went to school to learn regressive hypnosis.
	I would have graduated, but I was so busy, I only had one more test to go.
	And when I had my Nevada license.
	But I got busy doing something and I didn't take it.
	But Angela, who taught the course, said that anytime you want to take it, you know, can do it.
	And I still don't know whether that's in effect or not.
	But anyway, Bill came back Tuesday night with his wife.
	And at that time we had a couch, a long couch there.
	I said, why don't you lie down there and put this pillow under your head.
	And I didn't hook up my recorder because I thought, this is too far out.
	Nothing's going to come up for us.
	But his wife took notes.
	So immediately we got into it.
	I said, where are you?
	And he said, I'm at the black mailbox.
	And I said, what do you see?
	And he said, I see two headlights.
	And he said, they're coming our way.
	And I said, okay, now what's happening?
	He said, they stopped overhead and He said, I was on the driver's side with the door open and I had my foot on the running board and my arm through the window.
	And he said, I'm being lifted up into this craft that it's about 50 feet above.
	And he said, I found myself on a comfortable couch.
	And there's what we know as a tall gray there.
	Tall gray said, what do you want?
	And Bill says, I don't understand.
	What do you mean, what do I want?
	He says, well, you're here.
	You came here to see us.
	You obviously have some questions.
	So he asked a few noncommittal questions and most of the stuff we've read about in the...
	First of all, he said, what do you want?
	He says, my name is Quaylar.
	And Bill spelled it Q-U-A-L-O-R, Quaylar.
	And then they talked for maybe ten minutes, and Quaylar said, well, I've got to go.
	It's time to go, so if you wouldn't mind.
	Going back to the truck, so Bill says he walked over to the doorway and he said he looked down 50 feet.
	He said, boy, that's a long ways.
	He said, I don't think I could survive that.
	And Quayler said, no problem, no problem, just step off.
	So Bill took all his courage and stepped off and just floated down to the door.
	And when he got to the doorway, He remembered looking behind and seeing the red lights of a truck going up that hill from where the mailbox is, which is exactly what he remembered.
	And that was it.
	Okay, but, you know, Bill Hamilton, I've interviewed him, and he's a fascinating interview.
	It'd be great to connect with him again, but he's on and off.
	I guess he's been working for the man, so to speak, in various capacities, so I don't know if he's willing to do interviews now.
	But he told me that his wife was actually, I guess, abducted and messed with sexually by reptilians.
	Now, I don't know if anything happened to his wife in this particular trip.
	But he was visited, they were visited on a repeated basis.
	In fact, it was so common or something that it became a problem for their marriage.
	He wrote about this.
	Yeah, I remember that.
	I remember him telling me that story.
	Yeah.
	So he was one of the few people that have ever come out like that, talking about his wife and the reptilians.
	So what about the reptilians?
	Have you seen any of those?
	I haven't, but the guy that's Resnick.
	Do you know who Resnick is?
	Yeah, the name's familiar.
	He's with me and Ron, and supposedly we own all this moon property and are selling it.
	And I think Resnick was the one that said that he worked with a reptilian down in Florida in a laboratory, and he said the only difference that he could tell was that every once in a while he had an inner eyelid that would close and then open up.
	And he said it really freaked him out the first time he saw that.
	Close and then open up.
	And other than that, you know, I can't remember seeing anything, but most of my family has.
	For instance, Damien, when he was 11, he's 15 now.
	He came in one afternoon.
	It was summer.
	And it was in the evening.
	And he says, Grandpa, I just went to the moon.
	I said, cool, tell me about it.
	He said, well, he said, I was up in my greenhouse, or in my treehouse, and he said, this green fog came in and started gushing around.
	And he said, the next thing I know, I'm on this silver slab.
	In this laboratory, and I said, and of course, I never talked to him or any of my kids about this unless they asked a specific question.
	He said, I was on the silver slab, and the doctor told me to be calm.
	And I said, were you frightened?
	First of all, I said, what did the doctor look like?
	And he said, you know, a few legs, hair all over.
	And later, I pulled out, I had him draw the picture of the doctor.
	So if you wouldn't mind, I'm not going to go over there, but if you go down about halfway...
	On the left side, and you'll see a drawing of a, and it says, Damien's doctor.
	You're kidding me.
	Right.
	Well, it sounded like that.
	Wow.
	That's really freaking scary.
	So, what did they say, what did he say the doctor did to him?
	I said, to what, uh, Weren't you scared?
	I said, you know, I'd be scared if I saw something like that working on me.
	He said, well, I was nervous but not scared.
	And I said, what did he do to you?
	He said, I don't know.
	He said, but the instruments that he was working with were flying around.
	And he said that...
	He'd grab one and do something, let it go, and it'd fly off, and another one would fly in, and he'd grab it, you know, and say, you know, this sounds like all the other stories I've heard.
	And I showed him pictures, that one famous picture of a reptilian that everybody has, and I had him thumb through it, and he stopped right there and said, that's the guy.
	That picture looks more like a spider being.
	Yeah, more like a...
	Yeah, a praying mantis.
	Yeah, it could be a spider.
	Anyway...
	Yeah, I guess a praying mantis or a spider, yeah.
	One of my daughters lived in Sun Valley, Idaho, and about, let's see, the daughter is 22 now, so this is when she was seven.
	So it had to be 15 years ago.
	No, no, because she was three.
	So it had to be a long time ago.
	She always slept with her mother and slept in her mother's bed.
	And this one night when she was three years old, they lived in Sun Valley in a house that was not...
	Surrounded by a bunch of houses, but kind of by itself.
	And the little girl comes up to her mom and says, Mommy, I want to sleep in my room tonight.
	Moya, my daughter, was shocked because she had never heard her express any desire to stay in her own room.
	But she said, okay, fine.
	Went in and made her bed.
	And at 5 o'clock in the morning, she comes in and yanks on her mother's covers and says, Mommy, Mommy, wake up.
	I have something very important to tell you.
	Three years old.
	And Moia looks at her watch at 5 o'clock.
	What is it?
	And she said, The space people came last night.
	And she had not talked to Alexandra at all about any space beings.
	So Moia says, well, how many were there?
	And she said, five.
	And she counted on her fingers.
	One, two, three, four, five.
	Wow.
	So Moia said, what did you do then?
	And Alexandra said, I got my gun and shot him.
	Really?
	Three years old.
	Three years old.
	That's incredible.
	Four years later, she's seven, and my two older daughters, which I had from my first wife, Moya and Jill, they're at the same house.
	They're in the living room, and it's in the afternoon, and they're just chatting.
	They notice that it's been at least an hour and a half since they've seen Alexandra.
	And that's not like Alexandra to go away for that long or for them not to notice.
	You know, they get checks every five minutes whether they like it or not.
	And they heard the back door slam.
	Here comes Alexandra, and she has her camping backpack on with the straps here, and she has swimming goggles around her eyes, and a, what do they call the tube?
	Yeah, I don't know what they call it.
	The breathe, the breathe air.
	Yeah, I get it.
	And she has a sheen.
	Sweat across her forehead.
	And as they turn around and look at her, she's stomping towards the stairway, and she says, I've just been to the moon, and I'm very, very tired, and I'm going up to sleep, going up to take a nap.
	And when I talk to my daughters these days about it, they just say, you know...
	That was very weird, Dad, you know, for her to say that.
	I'm going to take a nap.
	I've just been going to take a nap.
	Now, how old was that little girl?
	Was she still three at that point?
	Seven, no.
	Seven, seven.
	Then when she was eleven, she was at my mother's house in Verdi, near Reno.
	It's just a nice afternoon, and they just had lunch, and they were out, and there's a trampoline there, and Alexandra's bouncing up and down on the trampoline, and she says, Mommy, when am I going to the moon next?
	Oh, man.
	And that was, Monia said, I don't know, darling.
	And then Allison, when she was, 13. For some God-known reason, Marilee let her put a deadbolt lock on her door.
	It was only open from the inside.
	At about, I'm thinking it was like 11 o'clock, the most blood-curdling screams you have ever heard in your life.
	Oh, my God.
	Come out of Allison's room, Allison's screaming, and I flew out of bed and opened our door, and just down the hallway is her door, and tried her door, and the deadbolt was locked, and now she's screaming even louder.
	I mean, horrible screams.
	You know, I can't remember if she was going, Daddy, Daddy, or just screams.
	I don't think she would have gone, Daddy, Daddy, because I would have gone nuts.
	But there was nothing we could do, and nothing we could...
	There's no way we could get in.
	And, you know, I didn't want to go down and get a crash axe, because I wanted to stay there and, you know, see what was going to happen.
	And pretty soon...
	She quiets down.
	Oh, and also I couldn't get her to come to the door.
	And pretty soon she quiets down and we get her to come to the door and get her all calmed down.
	And what were you screaming at?
	And she said, a little man came out of my closet and She described him, you know, three or four feet tall.
	And to this day, if she comes, I'm going to have her describe him, because she'll never forget the clothes that he had on.
	They were plaid or something, but she'll never forget those for some reason.
	And got her own con down, and that was that.
	End of story.
	No more.
	Can we explain that, I mean...
	Sounds like he did something to her if she would scream so loud.
	The man?
	Could have, but I didn't want to ask him.
	You didn't ask?
	Uh-uh.
	Wow.
	So she was fine otherwise?
	I mean, she just seemed normal after that?
	Yeah.
	Incredible.
	She talks about it.
	If you ask her about it these days, she talks normally about it.
	And she describes the clothes.
	How old is she now?
	Forty.
	Wait, she was born in 73, so 83, 93, 43, 47, 44. 45?
	Is she that old?
	I bought this map 40 years ago, and when I first started to study the Navy underwater transits courses, I put out this map and I said, well, I'll be damned.
	The center is Monterey Bay, and I can show all the places it goes to you.
	Perfect.
	So here's where Monterey Bay is, and this is what it's called.
	And this is...
	That's awesome.
	This is the Naval Undersea Warfare Center in Hawthorne.
	That's Walker Lake.
	Right.
	And it's only, you know, 15 miles long and 100 feet deep.
	And I kept saying there's no way they're going to fit a submarine, any kind of a submarine, in that lake.
	And it wasn't until many, many years later that I Came across the idea that maybe they had a had an elevator that went down to the level of the Pacific Ocean and that's when I started reading I got out the Branton books and what
	was so intriguing is that both The Thresher, and I think it was the Skipjack, two nuclear submarines, one was our first nuclear submarine,
	had been lost at sea, and one was lost near the Azores, and one was lost out in the Pacific Ocean.
	And for some reason, I thought these were both bullshit.
	I'm trying to remember the exact reason what tipped me off, but Branton either interviewed or heard about a lady whose husband was on the submarine and said that they were exploring someplace and they got lost or trapped and they couldn't get out.
	And I said, Ben has to be.
	They got into the Monterey Bay.
	And they got lost in there.
	And that was the thresher.
	And then the skipjack did the same thing, and he was lost four or five years later and in the same fashion.
	Well, I wonder if they're actually lost.
	I mean, maybe they just weren't ever going to come back.
	Yeah.
	To the surface.
	What's interesting is that when Ballantyne...
	Remember when he made a deal with the Navy to photograph the Titanic?
	Okay.
	Do you remember that?
	Anyway...
	Ballantyne, who worked for the Woods Hole or North Hole or whatever it was, made a deal.
	I think it was to photograph.
	They wanted him to photograph the remains of one of the nuclear subs, either the Skipjack or the Thresher.
	And what was interesting is the Navy had been on the Titanic three years before they told the public about it.
	And so when they said, we've just found the Titanic, they had already been on it three years.
	And somehow Ballantyne either knew that or...
	I don't understand what you mean, they've been on it for three years.
	Exploring it.
	They didn't want to tell the public about it.
	They wanted to get all the information and artifacts and stuff that they wanted before they told the public about it.
	Because they knew that once they told the public about it, you know, everybody would be grabbing stuff.
	The Navy found it before anybody knew about it.
	I mean, before anybody found where it was.
	You don't remember the searches and all that stuff surrounding Titanic.
	No, I'm not an expert on that subject, but I do know that Michael Shrimpton said there was a lot of, you know, obfuscation around the Titanic.
	I'd have to get into what he says about that in his book, and also I can ask him next time.
	Okay, what happened was that the Navy found it first and didn't tell anybody for three years.
	While they explored it and got all the information and artifacts that they wanted from it, and then they announced it to the public.
	I remember one thing he said.
	He said it was sunk by the Germans or something.
	Titanic?
	Yeah.
	You're not thinking about the Lusitania?
	Nope.
	I think maybe the Lusitania was also, but no, I mean, this is what he says, you know, that contrary to what they said, it did not sink.
	By hitting an iceberg.
	That was a lie.
	That it was actually, I believe, sent by the Germans.
	Okay.
	But what happened is Malandine, I think that's his name, made a deal with the Navy to take photographs, movies.
	Of the remains of whichever it was, the Threather or Skipjack, just south of the Azores.
	So about a year ago, they showed that movie.
	And there ain't no goddamn submarine because there's no, you know, reactor, no nothing around that.
	There's parts, sure, but nothing that would say that's a nuclear submarine down there.
	All right.
	Fair enough.
	So, now, a friend of mine used to run a print shop right across from McCarran Special Projects, and he's the one that told me a lot of this, give me some hints, because there are people that work there and worked around that area.
	Would know certain things.
	And one of the things was when he was in there, when somebody was in there getting some copies made, his name was King, I forget his first name, says to the guy that was from the Navy and actually from Hawthorne, he says, hey, tell me something.
	Is it true what John Lear says, that there's an elevator that goes down to the Pacific at Hawthorne, and the guy goes...
	Great.
	That's awesome.
	What about Luke Air Force Base?
	Isn't there a lot of stuff that goes on down there?
	No.
	I haven't heard anything that goes on in Luke.
	Really?
	Okay, let's...
	Jose, where else?
	I'll show you this and then we'll go back to the stuff that you want to do.
	That is a beautiful thing you've got there.
	Okay.
	Because nobody gets to see this.
	I mean, I don't think, at least I haven't seen it out around.
	And that's great.
	Now, who drew these channels on here?
	Did you do that?
	Or was it like that?
	Well, I bought the map and then I put the lines and the printing on there.
	And how?
	Is it just your, I mean, did you have help figuring out, you know, where the lines go exactly, or you just kind of traced backwards from, like, Monterey to...
	Yeah, Monterey to Lake Tahoe.
	Yeah, and Malibu.
	What?
	It's great.
	And Monterey to China Lake, we know what's up there.
	Malibu.
	Well, there's also supposed to be a link up there.
	Down Southern California, it's...
	I guess somebody told me this.
	Down past the nuclear power plant, there's another entrance somewhere significant.
	Which power plant?
	The one on the coast.
	In other words, you would have more lines, is what I'm saying, going further south, and also from San Diego.
	Yeah, there's the command.
	San Onofre Atomic Power Plant is in that area.
	And by the way, did you hear about the Point Doom, you know, the base, undersea base, you know, that Jimmy Church and a colleague found on Google Maps.
	It's right off of Point Doom.
	And they were going to go there and they were going to take, you know, take boats and divers and the whole nine yards.
	And suddenly everything shut up.
	Nobody's doing anything.
	You know about the undersea bases, like Catalina and all of that?
	There's also all that going on.
	Catalina has an underground base?
	Yeah, undersea base.
	I don't know about underground, but undersea.
	Yeah, sure.
	Catalina does?
	Yeah, off of Catalina Island.
	Well then, Santa Barbara, I've been at Santa Barbara Island.
	It's a little teeny island that's just this side of...
	All kinds of crazy stuff getting seen.
	Yeah, like that missile that was launched a year ago.
	Right.
	Remember that?
	Yeah.
	It was one of the first photos taken when the first Kama satellite rounded the moon.
	And that's half of the photo.
	The other half I gave to a friend.
	There was, you know, like I started to tell you all the weird things that happened.
	I don't have time now, but I'll tell you this one quick story is a guy and his wife used to go to auctions in New Orleans and they go to this one auction to this old mansion and the guy had just passed away and didn't know anything about him.
	And they bid $5 for a box that was unlabeled and they didn't know it was in it, but they liked the price.
	And they bought it and there's 34 of those moon pictures in them.
	Incredible.
	And the guy whose estate died was one of the guys that put together that NASA. He worked for NASA, put together those books that showed those pictures.
	And his initials are on the back of the photos that he bought for $5.
	So I gave him $100 for $34.
	I thought it was quite generous.
	So you have the pictures, you're saying?
	Really?
	Are they good?
	Are they fuzzy?
	So they're like this.
	But see, this...
	I wonder how this compares with, you know, do you know the area of the moon?
	What are those structures?
	These are all towns.
	I can show you exactly where this is because I did a lot of studies on those photos.
	If we get a good light, you can see the roads.
	All around here is a mining area.
	You can see the roads there and down here in the crater you can see the dust coming out.
	You can see those roads right there?
	And then there's one I have on my computer, the one I gave away.
	Unfortunately, it has a control tower.
	Oh yeah?
	I mean, I would love John Walson to compare this to his own close-ups and see how closely they resemble.
	Mine would have to be better because it's taken from so much closer.
	Well, yes and no.
	I mean, that's the conundrum of all these.
	I just made this drawing to show how the ETs went to space.
	And this shows a flying saucer.
	And that's space.
	And recall, this space is actually a fabric.
	You can pull it this way and that way.
	And so the gravity generators that are under the saucer, there's three of them, if they focus them all on one part of space, they can actually pull that space towards them and wrap it around in a heart-shaped hole.
	Yeah, it's cool.
	That's good.
	And then when they turn off the gravity generator, they're millions of miles away in not even seconds because they pulled that space towards them and they're not going back.
	They're just there.
	Fascinating, yeah.
	Mark Richards would like your drawings, I think.
	Okay.
	And then this map.
	I just bought, um, this is one of the creators.
	This one, see how white it is?
	NASA's always told us that it's just a white sand.
	Right?
	This is a close-up of where the black triangles fly out of.
	And this is the bump in the road where the guy got out of his car and hiked over those mountains right there and was crossing that valley when he saw the SUVs.
	And the strip is right there.
	And the reason we know it's right there is because a guy, a friend of mine who was a The 727 captain was flying from Salt Lake to San Francisco on a daily basis and back and forth with a co-pilot who had worked there.
	And when they'd come this way, the co-pilot would say, see those two peaks?
	It's right there.
	The strip's right there.
	And what they do is they tell them, the guys that work there, that they hide it with mirrors.
	They don't.
	They hide it with the machine that hides, like, for instance, 9-11.
	Those were airplanes.
	Those were holograms.
	Right.
	Okay.
	Clear on that?
	Okay.
	Yes.
	Let's go that way.
	Yeah, no, and you're one of the people that, you know, brought that to everyone's attention.
	The what?
	The holograms.
	Really?
	And you should know you're the pilot.
	You know what it takes to pilot an airplane to do the supposed things that they were claiming.
	See if you can stand there and see that lower left hand sand.
	A pile of sand.
	A craft or some kind of spaceport or something.
	It's construction of some kind.
	I mean, it looks kind of like a parked saucer, I suppose.
	So what are you saying about that?
	Is that the bright, that's the bright thing that is in that crater?
	Yeah, that's what NASA calls the sea.
	Right.
	It's lit up, like from the inside.
	It's very bright, incredibly bright.
	So where do you get that photograph?
	This is the one I got from the guy in England that took 192 photographs of the moon, stitched them all together digitally, and then sent it to me.
	And then I enlarged what I suspected was not white sand.
	I'm going to take this down because...
	I wanted to show you how beautiful that is.
	It is.
	Amazing.
	Fabulous.
	Yeah, that's just...
	Now, I'd love to have John Walson aim his camera.
	What side of the moon is it on?
	The near side.
	You can look up at the sky and see it.
	Oh.
	That telescope working.
	You can look and see it.
	This is on the near side, too, but...
	You wouldn't be able to see it with our telescope, but...
	Oh, no, this is the far side.
	And this is a flying saucer that's been blacked out with an airbrush.
	And that is a terminal.
	And you can see Terminal 1, Terminal 2, Terminal 3. And you can see the gates coming out there.
	And you can see going down there.
	And here you can see the control tower.
	You can see...
	Clearly the roof of that control tower, how it sticks over there.
	Right.
	And this one is in the crater, and this is a launch pad of some kind.
	Right.
	You see those beautiful archways there?
	And whatever they launch comes down there and off there.
	Yep.
	Can you see that?
	Yeah, I can.
	So are you the only one that has these photos?
	Yep.
	Wow.
	I mean, I posted them, so other people are welcome too.
	Thank you.
	He was on a team, U.S. Army team, based in Okinawa, that would be sent to Vietnam when they found real-life monsters.
	I just talked to Mark Richards about Vietnam, and he says the entire Vietnam War had nothing to do with communism.
	It was because there was a re-invasion.
	of a species of ET. I believe it.
	I figured out the connection with Vietnam and that being the only way about...
	it can't be more than a month ago.
	The Bentwaters incident led me to Benowitz, led me to something else, led me to Bob Lazar, led me to...
	you know, each one gets deeper and deeper into the real thing.
	We'll say, well, how bad could they be?
	And are they worse than the aliens on Alien 1?
	Yeah, worse.
	And...
	Because I think being here in person, you know, you get to find these wonderful things like your maps and memorabilia that triggers your memory, so...
	Did you see or read Lou Baldwin's book, Mars and the Lost Planet Man?
	No.
	He writes the story about, you know where the asteroid belt is between Jupiter and Mars?
	Right.
	That was a planet, twice as big as theirs was, with a hundred billion humans on it that was blown up by the ETs because it didn't fit into their program.
	It took one and a half seconds to completely obliterate it.
	Nothing remained.
	And that's what causes the different showers every year.
	Oh, yeah?
	Where does he get his information?
	Two ways.
	Number one is, starting when he was five years old, he lived in Italy.
	His father was in the U.S. Army.
	And he got picked up regularly by ETs and taken to different parts of the universe and shown different things and told different things.
	And then he'd meet with people who told him more stuff.
	And then he says specific dates where he was given an information dump.
	It would give him more information.
	And what I was specifically interested in is, if you're telling me about living our lives with integrity and without envy or greed, I thought we weren't supposed to know this stuff.
	And he says, you aren't.
	But just telling you and the people you can reach is not very many people compared to how many people there are on the planet.
	Seven billion.
	He said, it's okay.
	He said, you can pass it to anybody you want.
	As a matter of fact, we prefer you pass it.
	Right.
	Well, I think, you know, the yogis and various people.
	It's called enlightenment.
	You know, that's another word for what you're talking about.
	He was on a team, U.S. Army team, based in Okinawa, that would be sent to Vietnam when they found real-life monsters.
	They were hidden.
	The monsters would hide themselves in holes or caves that the Vietnamese had dug themselves.
	And the monsters were seven feet tall, had wings that didn't move, but they could fly.
	And he said he was only attacked once, and he felt a twitching on his neck, but he got away.
	Okay, well, that's interesting, because I was going to ask you, I just talked to Mark Richards about Vietnam, and he says the entire Vietnam War had nothing to do with communism.
	It was because there was a re-invasion of a species of ET. I believe it.
	I believe that to be absolutely unadulted.
	They're actually spider beings.
	It's really horrible.
	He said they're the size of a VW. Like, you know, those VW bugs.
	And that they demolished what's called Angkor Wat many, many, I think, you know, thousands of years before this.
	This place called Angkor Wat, he said, was filled with portals.
	And that during, I guess it was World War II, they took their attention away from that area of the east, you know, far east.
	And that during that time...
	They started to reinfest through Vietnam, come up through Laos and Vietnam and then that area.
	And that's what they were battling.
	And they've got no idea.
	He said most of the soldiers, etc., had no idea what they were really fighting.
	And, yeah, it's fascinating that you got this from Lou Baldwin and you also.
	I figured out the connection with...
	Vietnam and that being the only way about...
	It can't be more than a month ago.
	Wow.
	Because I've always looked for the reason why, you know, we attacked Vietnam.
	It can't be, you know, for the bullshit we used to hear, you know, like saving the...
	Right, the dominoes that we're going to all...
	The domino theory and...
	Just all kinds of crap.
	But the monster makes real, real good sense.
	Now, he says we were successful, actually.
	So, we may not have won the war in Vietnam, according to what they think out there.
	But the reality is, I guess they beat back this alien race successfully.
	And, you know, chemtrails, right?
	That's when they started the spraying program.
	Are the chemtrails for the monsters?
	I guess.
	You know, they were spraying all kinds of chemicals through the jungle and demolishing it.
	That is so cool.
	I knew this was going to happen.
	And what he said happened in Angkor Wat is they actually, I guess they're highly intelligent, and they had some kind of electronic, I don't even know, microwave machine, and they demolished something like in two and a half hours.
	And the entire population of all of that area of Southeast Asia, or whatever you want to call it, around Angkor Wat, these beings came in and then they ate them all.
	They demolished it, they killed them all, killed them all, and then they ate them all.
	And so there's no bodies, no bones.
	That is absolutely fantastic.
	That is so cool.
	Like I said, starting with...
	What's his name in Las Vegas in 1985?
	The Bentwaters incident led me to Benowitz, led me to something else, led me to Bob Lazar, led me to, you know, and each one gets deeper and deeper into the real thing.
	Incredible stuff.
	This stuff.
	That you just told me about makes so much sense.
	I mean, that's it!
	Yeah.
	And actually, he says that, okay, this gets into Antarctica, and I wanted to ask you about this, because a lot of people are going to want to know what you think.
	So we know that, you know, John Kerry went down there during the election, of all things, right?
	A lot of people are apparently, you know, heads of state, are trying to go by way of New Zealand down to Antarctica.
	They've been told, stop, don't come down here.
	There's something they want to see.
	There's some sign of part of Atlantis that actually really didn't sink, but just actually shifted down to that part of the globe and has left a piece of land, you know, it's part of, really, Antarctica.
	You know, there's some beings down there.
	And Marx says that actually, yes, that there are a lot of ET races down there that they have meetings with, and they can't meet anywhere else in the globe because the surveillance technology, you know, the humans even have, is so pervasive, but it hasn't penetrated down there.
	So that's one thing he said.
	I'm not sure, you know.
	He can't always be honest with me.
	He says he reports to Bobby Ray Inman.
	He says that Bobby Ray Inman knows more than most humans about the whole ET story.
	And it also, I don't know if you've heard this, but it also may be that the Navy is responsible for getting Trump in power.
	The Navy is very instrumental.
	Now, the Navy is split.
	There's one side that is not On board.
	But anyway, so the thing is that he says there's a race of beings down there.
	And he used this as an example.
	It's really interesting.
	He said they're poisonous to us.
	And they're poisonous to us.
	So they can come visit us.
	They want to talk to us or whatever.
	They're energy beings, he said.
	But there are things like they spit acid and the acid just demolishes us and all this kind of thing.
	And then he said there are many invading races or something of that nature.
	But he said there are certain ones that have more priority that people don't realize.
	You know, they think, you know, I don't know, the Anunnaki and this one and that one.
	But he said there are certain ones that are high priority.
	That are ones that they have to watch out for.
	And I guess these spider beings are also, I've gotten this from another witness, are a high priority invading, still invading, you know, potentially invading race.
	That's so cool.
	I mean, your last ten minutes made this whole thing rivet.
	I mean, that's really interesting.
	It is.
	And the interesting thing is no one wants to say that.
	No one wants to talk about that.
	Yeah, just like it went click, click, click, click, click.
	Because, you know, Lou has been telling us for years that we'll say, well, how bad could they be?
	And are they worse than the aliens on Alien 1?
	Yeah, worse.
	But nobody can get him saying it.
	It's really cool, really cool.
	Okay, let's get on with your stuff because I want to be sure you're satisfied.
	All right, well, other than that, you know, is there anything else about the moon?
	Because I know you wanted to say, you know...
	That you think we didn't go there, but I've been told we went there, we'd had help, you know, we know about the astronauts, we know their brains were wiped, you know, their memories.
	I mean, you heard about Buzz Aldrin down in Antarctica recently, right?
	You didn't hear about that?
	Well, he, I mean, Buzz Aldrin, right, of all people, is down there supposedly hiking around in Antarctica.
	This is a story.
	And he had a heart attack.
	Or almost did and had to be shipped out.
	He said, I saw, the word is, they tweeted, I saw the face of evil.
	I'm paraphrasing.
	And then that's it.
	And the tweet has disappeared off his Twitter.
	So nobody, you know, some people say it's true.
	Some people say it's false.
	He's been interviewed since and doesn't say anything about it.
	But of course, he was shipped out by the, you know, military in the hospital.
	He could easily have had his mind wiped since then.
	He looks like a troubled guy, I gotta say.
	You know, this is the kind of thing we're talking about.
	What is the face of evil, you know?
	And you know about the Nazis in Antarctica and all that.
	The Nazis.
	The Nazi bases down in...
	You know, they call them fascists.
	The beings from Aldebaran that helped the Nazis during World War II and came over to the United States helped with their space program.
	A lot of this stuff is coming out now.
	So I don't know if you've heard anything along these lines.
	Yeah, the guy that wrote the book that I'm telling you about.
	The plutonium.
	Right.
	You had a meeting.
	I don't know if you want me to say this publicly, so if you don't, we don't have to.
	But you said, okay, so we traded plutonium for, what was the trade?
	They gave us plutonium.
	The trade was for aberration paper.
	So to get the Nazis in for free, you know, to not be prosecuted, basically.
	Yeah, to let them off the hook, and they gave us their plutonium.
	So that's a piece of information we don't have.
	Who are you saying is saying that?
	I just think it's behind this, you know, the people behind Operation Playbook were John Foster Dulles, who was Secretary of State, the other who was Secretary of State, the other Dulles, who was head of the CIA.
	And Eleanor Dulles.
	Who was head of the Berlin desk in Berlin.
	And they're the three people that made Operation Paperclip fly.
	Okay, and that checks out with my information as well.
	I was told, again, by Michael Shrimpton that the Dulles brothers were basically Nazi agents.
	Were Nazi agents?
	Yeah.
	Well...
	Yes, I believe that, and I believe that it's a lot further than people think.
	I think this is the Fourth Reich, and I'll tell you why I think so, is because, number one, when they killed Gus Grissom, I mean, that was a warning to everybody.
	Do not fuck with us.
	And, you know, the day before, Gus had said, and this was January 27, 1967. The day before that, he had said, this thing ain't going to the moon in two years.
	This thing ain't going to the moon in ten years.
	And before that, he had said that he had hung the banana or the lemon on the Apollo spacecraft.
	So his son was given The little piece of material from the cockpit that was the igniter for the oxygen.
	And it'd be sure interesting to have that tape, what they said for the 10 or 15 seconds they had to live.
	I don't think they lived more than that, but the interesting thing about all of that Is the fact that the fourth person in there was from the secret astronaut corps.
	And the reason was, is Joe Shea, the head of the Apollo program, had to go to New York for a meeting, a party, not a meeting, not a meeting, a party of the Apollo program.
	And the reason that...
	There's a 45-minute lapse and delay of information from the time the fire went out until the time the NASA crews were let in to recover the bodies.
	What happened during that 45 minutes?
	Why?
	What happened?
	Well, what happened was they had to get the fourth guy out.
	And the fourth guy was the secret astronaut.
	And I have his name.
	If ever it pops up, I know that I've not given that name to anybody.
	And if it pops up, I'll know that that is him.
	And his son, the astronaut that was killed with Grissom, White, and Chaffee, is a current astronaut now.
	Oh, wow.
	And I have his name.
	It'll be interesting to see if it comes out before I croak.
	But if you believe we're in the Fourth Reich, you're right.
	You're right.
	Absolutely.
	Certainly, Joseph Farrell and Jim Mars.
	Jim Mars wrote a book, The Fourth Reich, all about this.
	I mean, yeah, I'm sure of this.
	Based on every piece of evidence we've gotten.
	According to William Tompkins, who is this guy who's come out, and I wish you would watch my interview with him, fascinating guy, and again, he's brought forward by Bobby Ray Inman and the Navy, and he is talking about how the Apollo program, he worked on the Apollo program, he talked about how he came in and redesigned all of it, how he dealt with the Nordic beings who are helping our space program.
	All through the days of RAND Institute, Douglas Aerospace, early days of Skunk Works.
	He redesigned it.
	But why?
	Because it wasn't going to go anywhere, because just like they said, he said it was a mess.
	And in essence, the Nordic beings helped us, a certain group of Nordics, of Pleiadians, and that there are Nazis who tried to sabotage our space program.
	Who did?
	The Nazis.
	The ones who came over from Paperclip, they were under orders from the reptilians not to let us succeed.
	You know, I guess it was three months ago there was a huge article on Anchor Wat in National Geographic.
	Really?
	That's interesting.
	Well, if there was a portal system back, you know, he said lots of portals in that particular area of the world.
	Those portals are likely still there.
	I mean, they don't go away, portals.
	And nobody wiped them out.
	And you know that, of course, Mark also talks about the portals in the mountains, in the mountains between Iraq and Iran.
	Really?
	They're moving, yeah, they're shifting gates, he says, and they have to guard them.
	They're never going to leave that area.
	They're there for, you know...
	Between Iraq and Iran, there's gates?
	Gates in the mountains.
	And the gates?
	Where, you know, beings can come in and out and bring equipment in and out.
	From where?
	From other dimensions, other places, other planets.
	Because I have a friend that...
	He's over there all the time, and he hasn't, you know, I told you about the guys that used to be down at the gate here, and also guys used to come to the door and tell my wife, I'd like to talk to your husband.
	Yeah.
	And in 1990, it all stopped like this.
	Nobody showed up ever again.
	None of those guys, you know, and I've heard that there is a huge facility in the middle of the test site, brand new, and it's a prison for guys who talk.
	And if they talk, they're going in that place and they're never coming out.
	Now, they used to keep them at Lovelock, the federal prison up there.
	Well, off in 95, we saw there's two, like, they look very new and they're covered.
	They've got lights and barbed wire, just like, you know, a Nazi Germany kind of place.
	And there's two prisons up on that ridge now.
	Whereabouts?
	Coming down the 95, past Pahrump.
	It's between Pahrump and Vegas.
	Past Pahrump.
	If you come south towards Vegas, it's on the right-hand side.
	There are two prisons.
	I mean, you can look it up on a Google map.
	I'm sure they're marked.
	But they're prisons.
	And we were joking that that's where the people who talk go.
	I don't know if that's the same kind of place.
	Well, that's...
	There's a correctional facility, they call one of them.
	And one, they say it's an outright prison of some kind.
	Yeah.
	Yeah, they've been there a long time.
	But the prison right in the middle of the test site, a friend of mine...
	Goes up there occasionally.
	His job is some bullshit deal.
	But anyway, he says, I wondered what that was.
	And he said, I finally figured it out.
	It's a prison.
	And I have a friend that used to give me information on a monthly basis, just as regular as you can be.
	And I haven't heard a thing.
	Now, we know that the first question, On the lie detector test that everybody was taking every 90 days was, do you know John Lear and what is your relationship with him?
	Really?
	Yeah, that came, you know, right straight from the horse's mouth.
	Incredible.
	What happened is the friend that I had that was giving me information, he said, John, you want to be very careful because the security that they had going for Groom Lake is now good for the entire Nevada site.
	So, everybody now, they were, and I'm sure I'm part of it because I would give information that I had for five years, but they probably thought was recent.
	You know, where the fuck did he get that, you know?
	They have effectively really closed it down, and that's just straight out of the Nazi handbook.
	Right.
	Well, you know, we were at a conference here in Vegas, and we were approached by a guy at the very end of the conference.
	Everybody had left, and he basically said he worked underground at Groom Lake.
	And he said, they come down, they pile the tables with cocaine and give them everything they can possibly want.
	And he was just going on about this stuff.
	And he was not a dummy, this guy, okay?
	He didn't look like some shifty, anything like that, you know what I mean?
	And he was just there talking to people, whoever would listen to him, like he came down there.
	And I guess, you know...
	He said they have cocaine?
	Yep.
	He said they give people that work there everything they could possibly want.
	Drugs, women, you name it.
	But they can't talk about it, right?
	And for some reason he came to the conference and he just wanted to talk to a few of us.
	And I think, you know, some people didn't listen.
	Some people did.
	I was there.
	I'm not going to name a couple other people who heard him say this.
	And then I guess he just disappeared, you know.
	The guy that was the medical guy, his website is Area 51, 1 and 2 or something like that.
	But anyway, I was the one that got him totally involved in this stuff in the beginning.
	And he supposedly was the guy that...
	Found the doctor that was doing the injections of the alien that lived in the subterranean thing in S4 that would go up and down.
	You don't mean Dan Beerish.
	Yeah.
	He didn't die.
	I didn't hear he die.
	No.
	The guy that found Dan Beerish.
	That found Dan Beerish?
	Yeah.
	A medical guy that found Dan?
	No, no.
	Dan Burick is the metal guy.
	The other guy I'm trying to remember his name, I can't remember it.
	He's the one that told me that...
	Bill Hamilton?
	No.
	He's the one that told me that the head of MJ-12, MJ-1, was Mike McConnell.
	That's right.
	Yeah.
	And Mike McConnell is the one that engineered...
	Hiring Bob Lazar because he knew that Bob Lazar would come directly to me and that I would spread the information and from that they could tell how it was going to be received.
	And he was also, I think, the head defense intelligence head of the DIA. Now, have you heard a story like that, like I just said?
	Yeah, that's Dan Beersh's information.
	Mike McConnell, he considers Mike McConnell his father.
	Okay, but he hired Bob to give information to me?
	No, I didn't hear about that side.
	Interesting.
	I mean, it doesn't surprise me.
	I think they're always doing that.
	They're always bird-dogging information, tracking it to see who talks to who.
	Because the first night that Bob came in and sat down and said, I saw a disc today, and I said, What?
	I saw a disc today.
	I said, there's her arms.
	He said, there's.
	I said, what are you doing here?
	Why don't you go and work for a couple months to find out?
	He said, well, I just feel that you've taken so much crap over this that I've seen it, I touched it, it's real, and people deserve to know that.
	But I never heard the Mike McConnell story until the guy that just passed away told it to me.
	Wow, I wonder which guy that was.
	Now, you'll know his name as soon as I come up with it.
	I'm sure I'm going to know it, yeah.
	Now, do you believe Dan Burke's story?
	I believe a lot of what viewers says, yeah.
	I do too.
	I just can't understand why George Knapp is so down on that guy.
	Well, a lot of people are.
	You know.
	Why?
	They made a lot of enemies.
	Well, you know, they've also, they've done some stuff to people.
	You know, it's a crazy thing.
	I think purposefully they've got a lot of disinfo, confusion around their story.
	And people don't want to believe it.
	I can tell you I do.
	I was even visited by Kaiella.
	Who?
	The ET that Dan Burish interviewed, you know.
	Did the skin sampling and helped him.
	Kiela is the name of the E.T. I don't know that guy.
	Yeah.
	And he actually helped him escape, the story goes, through a pyramid.
	Through the pyramid, the gate.
	Oh, okay.
	But what was his other name?
	Kiela.
	No, but his other name.
	They called him up at this point.
	I don't remember.
	That's what I remember, Kiela.
	There might have been another name, but I don't remember it.
	I just remember Kaiella.
	Anyway, he came and said hello to me after the interview, strangely.
	Well, I just can't understand why George Knapp doesn't believe Dan Burke when he believed me about Bob Lazar.
	Ned Day blew me off.
	I mean, Ned and I were friends for years, and I gave him some good information.
	And when I told him about this, I had all my files and everything.
	And that day after I got through, he said, I said, no, John, it's not possible.
	I said, why not?
	He said, I would have known.
	Now, how could anybody be so fucking...
	Arrogantly stupid is to say I would have known, especially Ned Day.
	Tell me that.
	How could he?
	I thought you're saying, so it wasn't George Knapp that said that, it was Ned Day.
	Ned Day that originally said that, now George Knapp is saying the identical thing about Dan Burick.
	Well, Dan Burick came back to me, you know, a few years ago, and they turned against us.
	We got threatened by them.
	A short time after, Henry Deacon went on stage and said he'd worked on Mars.
	We were threatened by them in a sort of backhanded way.
	But at any rate, he took over for MJ-1.
	Who did?
	Dan Beerish.
	That's what he told me.
	Really?
	Take it or leave it.
	Who told you that?
	Dan Beerish himself.
	Is that right?
	Where is he now?
	I have no idea.
	But, you know, they were always in Vegas.
	I don't know where they are now.
	Okay, that's as many stories as I can absorb.
	Let's go and do your stuff.
	Okay, what else is there?
	You know, I'm actually...
	You know, we need to wrap this up.
	Okay, I don't want to wrap it up.
	It's too much to talk about.
	I wanted to show you one thing.
	I just wanted to show you that these are the pages with a guy who was a technician on Apollo 1, and...
	As much as ordered to fake the material.
	Just forget it.
	Forget what was coming out and make it pass.
	And before I forget it, a lot of people say there couldn't have been a fourth guy in the cockpit.
	It's just too small.
	That's bullshit.
	Because if they sat with their head on the console...
	And their feet into where the rocks were, there's plenty of room there.
	You're agreeing with me?
	I have no idea.
	You know, I've seen that capsule thing.
	It doesn't look very big.
	I don't even understand how anybody would go anywhere in that stuff.
	Those things do not look...
	They don't look flight-worthy.
	But if you're using free energy and you're wrapping them, I mean if you put it, you know, inside something else, who knows?
	Put what inside?
	The capsules.
	I'm just saying, you know, we were told years ago we went to the moon, but we had help.
	And now we've got William Tompkins talking about how they dealt with Apollo and how much help they did have, which is serious help.
	And I don't think he's revealing the whole story.
	I think he's, you know, giving us bits and pieces, as always.
	I think it's too much for them to admit that...
	They faked it.
	No, they've got a fake story that was filmed by Stanley Kubrick, but, you know, and Jay Widener is like an expert on this.
	He's writing a book right now about the fake...
	He was here the other day.
	Was he?
	Yeah.
	So they were filming it?
	Yeah.
	All right, he's writing a book about this, more about Stanley Kubrick and this whole, you know, fake...
	That was a backup story.
	They had to have that because they couldn't show what was really on the moon.
	We know all that, right?
	So there's two stories.
	There's the real one.
	There's the engineered fake one, which they definitely did do and hired him to do.
	And he's got even more information about Stanley Kubrick now, indicating that he was in on it and he believes possibly may not even be dead.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	Maybe he took a ticket to Mars.
	Look, I've got people who've told me.
	I've got a physicist right now, Richard Alan Miller.
	Have you heard of him?
	I interviewed him a number of times.
	He's out on the circuit.
	He's a brilliant guy.
	Right now he's writing about time travel.
	He writes, he's got written like 10, 12 books.
	And he says he has what he calls a get-out-of-jail-free card to go to Mars.
	If things go south here, To go there.
	So, you know, this is something that, you know, people have been talking about for a long time, of course.
	Well, you know, the one good thing that Oglin said in his book was that he didn't say, but somebody else said, but quoted him saying, the lie is different at every level.
	Yes.
	And it is, man.
	It's like an onion.
	Yeah.
	Famous quote.
	He repeated it, but he didn't make it up.
	No.
	Who made it up?
	I don't know.
	Apparently, from what I understand, some guy who worked out at one of the places who told Hoagland that, and Hoagland always remembered it.
	So, you gave me a list.
	I don't know what else you want to cover.
	I'll just go through quickly.
	I'll list the things that I cover on the radio, and you can say, not interested, not interested, interested, we'll do it another time.
	Cold War didn't exist, it was a cover for the UFO problem.
	Yeah, let me throw this at you.
	You know, nuclear, whenever, this is what I was told, whenever you hear the word nuclear, what they're really saying is it's the ET story.
	So nuclear, if they say, oh, it's a nuclear explosion, or it's a nuclear this, nuclear that, nothing to do with nuclear.
	It's all to do with some ET thing.
	It's a cover, like similar to what you're talking about.
	Universe evolved from a single atom.
	I used to believe that, but I don't anymore.
	It's ridiculous.
	The universe is so big, there's no way to explain to people like you and me who live in the three-dimension.
	And, you know, we can see this and that, and we hear 19 billion years as far as the Hubble can see.
	And you know there's two Hubble's, right?
	Or is there three?
	That's a good one.
	Okay.
	No, I haven't heard that, but it makes perfect sense.
	Why would there only be one?
	Well, they sent one, and when they sent two, one was going to be the civilian one.
	But then they figured they...
	Could see it stereoscopically with two.
	So they told the public that one was put together wrong and they had to send it back for the two years that they were using it stereoscopically.
	And everybody was making money.
	The people who built the thing and didn't screw up, you know, everybody was coming out on that deal.
	But no, there was nothing wrong with that.
	David Adair is out on the circuit talking about how he's upset over the retirement of the space shuttles.
	But that's a cover story as well.
	I mean, anytime in anything they want to go black, they say it's done, it's a mistake, it's trash, or whatever.
	Absolutely.
	And it's always going black.
	Yeah, this is happening constantly.
	Anytime they got a good idea, they take it black.
	Right.
	Right.
	Fukushima, I believe that it's Israeli setting off an atomic weapon.
	Yeah, it was triggered.
	Absolutely.
	And the reason was, was because the Japanese were selling high-grade plutonium to Iran.
	Yeah, I know.
	I heard that story as well.
	Apparently there's an ET side to that.
	The Japanese are working with the reptoids and we're at war with them.
	So it's much more about that and terraforming the planet.
	They're terraforming the planet.
	The radiation causes...
	What are we talking about?
	Genetic...
	And we're talking about an X-Men scenario.
	That's what they're looking for in the newborns.
	They're looking for ways to change the human genome and to upgrade us into, you know, basically what I call robotic Superman that involves nano and biotech and all of this to create a humanity 3.0.
	Okay, so that would be completely different than us being down here to learn how to live with integrity and without envy.
	Yours is the good advice.
	I'm talking about the dark side, what they're planning.
	Right.
	Yeah.
	And the reason, you know, it couldn't have been a tsunami or an earthquake was...
	It's because you don't see anything shaking in the movies.
	I think it's all absolutely still.
	And the reason it got so bad is because the Israelis won the contract to be the guards for the nuclear stuff so that when it started going bad, they didn't throw the right valves.
	Stuxnet?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, Jim, I think it's Jim Stone is the one who broke that story.
	Excellent reporter who's from the NSA on the run down in Mexico somewhere.
	Jim Stone?
	Yeah.
	Really?
	Yeah.
	No wonder I can't find any stuff.
	Yeah, he's got a website.
	You know, he reports stuff, but he's really hard to get a hold of.
	I try to interview him.
	He's not available.
	That makes sense.
	I was wondering about that because I was going to talk about the MH370 story.
	Okay, well, what do you have on that?
	What Jim Stone said is that they took.370, flew it to Israel, modified it to be able to fly radio control, then they faked MH17, put in.370, shot it down, and the doctors, any of the Any of the doctors now say that the people were dead at least three weeks?
	Yes.
	And people are there saying, no, they couldn't be.
	Well, I heard they shot him up with some kind of bioweapon and that it was headed to crash in Russia to create a 9-11 type of event.
	Putin had it shot down because it was headed, it was a dirty...
	Basically turned into a dirty bomb type of thing.
	Oh, well...
	Okay, well, I thought that the reason they hijacked it was to get rid of the other four engineers who...
	Okay, now you're talking about 370 and the one, the flight that disappeared with, yeah, those...
	Why, what were you talking about?
	Oh, I was talking about...
	When the plane went to Israel and was repainted and then went over Russia.
	It's the same story.
	Is it?
	Okay, yeah, but there was the portion between the flight.
	It was redirected to Diego Garcia first.
	And possibly from there, we don't know, might have gone to Israel.
	But the story was that there was a bunch of these engineers from Fremantle.
	This company, they're like super nerds.
	The four engineers that owned four-fifths of the company they were trying to get control of.
	Yeah, a division of Motorola called Fremantle.
	I think it's called Fremantle or Free something.
	Anyway, yeah, okay, so they wanted to own the whole company.
	So they had to get rid of the four engineers who were on that plane.
	Yes, I heard that, yes.
	Yuri Gagarin never got higher than the ladder he was on when they took the picture of him in his astronaut suit and capsule.
	Yuri Gagarin never went into space.
	The higher he got was on the ladder when they took the picture.
	What's that?
	William Tompkins said, you know, they saw reptilians on the moon that Neil Armstrong said was actually heard on an audio recording and that he was there on the scene in an underground base near, it's in Southern California, kind of near Boeing and that area of Southern California, El Segundo.
	Somewhere south of there.
	Anyway, during that whole...
	And he was there, he heard live, I guess it was Neil Armstrong saying, you know, we're here and they're telling us to leave.
	And that he showed these craft where all the reptilian craft were up on the ledge.
	Someone made a drawing of it.
	Actually, I guess Will William Tompkins made a drawing of it.
	It's all my interview.
	I want you to watch my interview, and then I'd love to talk to you about it.
	Okay, I don't believe it.
	You don't believe it?
	Okay, well, this is apparently what he's saying.
	He's not the only one who's told this story.
	I'm trying to save you.
	Dinosaurs friendly with man in South America, according to the stones of Dr. Javier Cabrera, found in the Andes.
	Mark Richards talks about a race called the Raptors.
	They're highly intelligent and they're working with our Air Force and our military right now.
	They used to eat us, but now they've changed sides and they're highly intelligent, they have space travel, etc.
	So it's very possible that this guy's telling the truth.
	The Albuquerque Tramway was built because they needed a way to get all the material for the joint US ET base up there.
	You know about that one?
	The joint ET base where?
	On the top of the Sandia Mountains.
	At the top of where the tramway is.
	Okay, that makes perfect sense.
	We know that HAARP guided the tight hurricane into New Orleans, right?
	No doubt about that, right?
	Yeah, I mean, a lot of these, you know, there's a guy who's reporting a lot of the storms that are, look, we have this thing called weather wars.
	You agree with that?
	They're guiding all kinds of, they're causing, there's a tectonic weapon causing earthquakes.
	If they're doing, you know, they're fighting using those weapons.
	When we hear about an earthquake in Iran, obviously it's being hit.
	Recent earthquakes in Italy.
	Middle of Italy, demolishing towns, coming out of nowhere.
	Earthquakes?
	Yeah.
	These are wars.
	I mean, these are between countries, but also, I think, from what I understand from Mark Richards, there are also attacks on ETs, underground bases, stuff like that.
	Okay.
	How many rockets do you think we have that are...
	That are man-approved.
	In other words, we can put men in them.
	I think rockets are pretty old-fashioned technology, so I don't know.
	I think Delta IV, Thor, Sea Launch.
	And they used the Ronald Reagan launch facility to launch those guys, and they launched at least...
	One every day to do all the work they've got to do up in space.
	Okay, here's the names of the NASA resignations I have who resigned on the day that Apollo 11 returned in July 1969. Bill Hess, Chief NASA Scientist at Houston.
	Elbert King, Geologist, Curator of Lunar Samples in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory.
	P.R. Bell.
	Chief of Lunar Receiving Laboratory at Donald Weiss, National Academy of Sciences.
	NASA changed the dates of their resignation so they didn't occur all on that date.
	Okay, and they resigned as a result of what?
	Finding out it was fake.
	Sorry?
	Finding out that it was fake.
	Oh, all right.
	And that was what date?
	Would be July...
	Would have been, what, the 23rd or 24th?
	Of what?
	Of 69 when they went to the moon.
	All right.
	The day that Apollo, they brought the stuff to the lunar receiving laboratory.
	That's when they found out it was fake.
	And those are the four guys that resigned.
	Okay, well, I don't know.
	It's crazy.
	We've got so many witnesses now talking about, you know, Our bases on the moon and Mars.
	Yeah, because that's what they want to sell.
	All right.
	Okay, just a second.
	Osama bin Laden died in Kuwait in 2001. Yeah.
	That's at least one...
	I mean, there's no doubt about it.
	He was dead by the time the SEAL team supposedly went after a fake Osama bin Laden.
	Glad we agree on that.
	Yeah.
	We know that TWA-800 was shot down by a U.S. submarine, right?
	No doubt about that, right?
	Okay, fair enough.
	That coincides with the fact that it was shot down, yes.
	Right?
	Yeah, I didn't know necessarily where it was shot down from, but I knew it was shot down.
	Arrow Air, Gander, Douglas DC-8, that crash you probably wouldn't know anything about.
	The public was told it was a icing.
	They were bringing U.S. soldiers back, and there was a bomb planted in it, in Cairo, set to go off on the takeoff from Gander, where they had to refuel.
	And I think it was Bush who was president there.
	He said, bury the airplane, which they did.
	It was a terrorist bomb that knocked the Arrow Air out of the air.
	Not sure about that one.
	I am.
	Okay.
	United Airlines 585, Boeing 737 Colorado Springs, and U.S. Air 427, Boeing 737 out of Pittsburgh, both pilot suicides in the United Airlines one.
	And both of them...
	That directly affected me because they were claiming that the yaw damper...
	Oh, no, no, that was the TW800. In both of these, they were claiming that the yaw damper created a hard-over on the rudder that the pilot was unable to control.
	That's bullshit because I've done hard-over tests and it only takes 80 pounds, and you can do 80 pounds with your little finger.
	What happened in the United Airlines one is the pilot and co-pilot were girlfriend and boyfriend.
	When they showed up at the airplane that morning, the girl had told him, the captain, that she found out that he had been with another girl the other night, and that was the end of them.
	They argued all the way down to Colorado Springs, a 20-minute flight.
	When they got on short final, he said, well, if I can't have you, nobody's going to have you.
	And he took the controls and put the airplane into a half roll like that and then pulled it straight in.
	And she exerted so much power going to the other side, she actually twisted that metal wheel 40 degrees around before they crashed.
	U.S. 427, the Boeing 737, same thing about the yacht amper.
	It's just pure bullshit, cannot happen, would not happen.
	All right, well, what about Jack John, you know, Jack, you know, the son, Kennedy, the Kennedy who was in the airline accident with his wife?
	What about it?
	That was shot down.
	Pardon?
	It was shot down.
	It was?
	Yeah.
	That's what I heard.
	He was killed.
	They took him out.
	I believe that that's certainly possible, but...
	He was an expert pilot.
	There was no pilot error.
	Oh.
	I didn't believe in an expert pilot.
	So we'll have to go over that one.
	Okay, so...
	Anyway, Silk Air 185, Boeing 737 on Malaysia.
	There's no doubt about that because it was investigated by Malaysia.
	They admitted it was a pilot suicide.
	Those three suicides are there.
	American Airlines 1524 out of LaGuardia claiming that the airplane was upset.
	By the 747 taking off in front of them, and the co-pilot overreacted and knocked the tail off the American Airlines plane.
	Absolute bullshit.
	Cannot happen.
	Did not happen.
	Yeah, it sounds like that.
	And not only that, but there's pictures of cameras along that route that saw the explosion from the bomb in the AF cargo.
	Ballard was the agreement with the Navy on the search for the Azores.
	Siegfried and Roy.
	I'll bet you don't know that one.
	Okay, give it a try.
	Go ahead.
	Roy died Of some disease.
	And between Steve Wynn and some other powerful people in Las Vegas, they got Roy's second cousin, underwent plastic surgery.
	He looked like Roy anyway, but underwent the plastic surgery and taught him how to handle animals.
	To keep the act going because there was just too much money involved and they couldn't afford to let that just drop.
	So they hired the second cousin and that's why he got bit on...
	Fascinating.
	All right.
	Fair enough.
	Jesus never lived religious fantasy.
	Fantasy, we know that.
	The shuttle, number one, Challenger, the one that the school teacher got called in, The reason, and they hired what's-his-name at Los Alamos to check that.
	The reason that that thing blew up was one of the hold down, there's four hold on clamps that hold the rocket down as they As they fired the ignition, so that all the ignitions are going, and everything is cool, then they use these snapshot.
	And one of them was sabotage not to open.
	And that's what tore the side of the...
	Okay.
	But you want to know that I have a guy who died, who I interviewed, who was on a Navy ship that was right in the vicinity, that the capsule hit the sea.
	The people were seen inside of it.
	They were still alive.
	They were on their way to rescue it and someone at NASA told them not to.
	The ship was turned away.
	They died and I can't remember why.
	It's Ed.
	His first name is Ed and it's on my website.
	You can listen to him.
	He got a phone call shortly after he did the interview with me, not long after.
	He was investigating the Kennedy assassination and the Challenger disaster because he was on the side of the Kennedy, the Challenger disaster.
	A lot of the people that were on the boat were given, like, promotions and early retirement, all kinds of packages not to say anything about, you know, seeing the capsule there and all of that.
	Anyway, he reported this story.
	He picked up the phone.
	His wife was there.
	He received a phone call, and he fell dead.
	They sent a pulse through the phone and killed him.
	And his wife was scared to death.
	She ran out of the house.
	That's what happened.
	And he's somebody I interviewed.
	Fascinating.
	The only thing I would say to that is, how would they live after hitting the water so hard in the capsule?
	Well, there's a parachute.
	You know, the capsule comes down with, I guess, a parachute, I think, as I understand.
	There was no parachute.
	I don't know what it is.
	He said, this is what they said.
	They even saw that they were alive.
	Oh, I see.
	Okay, thanks.
	I'll check on that.
	I mean, I don't know if all of them were, but I believe the woman was alive.
	There's no way he would lie.
	Guaranteed.
	So, Perry Spalter in her book that you're going to buy, Gravity, Force, and the Sun, not only proves that Newton's Universal law of gravitation is wrong, but then that makes wrong the Einstein's theory of relativity, because that's based on Newton's law of gravitation.
	Yeah, and I've heard, of course, that's wrong.
	Dekai color of the sky on the moon is saffron yellow.
	Not sure I've heard that one.
	I know you talked in my prior interview, you might have mentioned that.
	A black hole is a car wash for suns.
	In other words, when the sun starts to burn out, they roll it into a black hole, and it comes out already new to do its thing, which is to produce planets.
	Okay.
	I have been hearing that there is some cleansing aspect to black holes.
	There is what?
	A cleansing aspect.
	Actually, one of my witnesses, Cameron, who went to ground, he used to say that.
	Do you know anything about the F-19 or the F-117A? It's been a while.
	You know, I need more than that, more than the plane number to remember the story.
	The F-19 was going to be the next airplane in line, but either the story that...
	Some of us put out about the F-19 had to be squashed, so they named another airplane called the F-117A the stealth fighter, and the 64 F-19s went to Israel.
	And the reason they went to Israel is because The guy that took over from Kelly Johnson, Ben Rich, was actually Jewish, born in the Philippines, to a very wealthy Jewish family, was inserted into Lockheed, and he was the highest ranking Mossad agent west of the Mississippi, head of Lockheed.
	And the way they got the F-19, Well, I have heard, I think it's the F-35, which is just a black hole for, in essence, a lot of money going into the black budget on purpose.
	That it could have been, you know...
	Yeah, there's a cover-up there, definitely.
	Killed fusion is true.
	We find so many people that they killed over trying to prove it's true, but it is true.
	Cold fusion.
	Absolutely.
	What?
	Yes.
	And also the power for Navy ships is not fission, it's now fusion.
	And we're told that fusion can't be developed yet, but in fact it's powering.
	Most of the Navy ships.
	Well, this is what David Adair works on.
	And I'm going to be interviewing David Adair again.
	He just called me while we were here.
	So that's what he worked on.
	He created a fusion engine.
	And he was brought to Area 51 when he was 17 years old, shown an ET craft that was conscious.
	He climbed all over it.
	It let him turn it on.
	And he connected with it in some powerful way, and he basically was told it was a fusion.
	I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but I don't believe anything that Adair says.
	Why?
	Well, because he says he went to Area 51 in 1972, and he flew over it, and he knew it was Area 51 because they had two runways.
	Two massive runways.
	They didn't build the second runway until the late 80s.
	They didn't have to because the original runway was built not knowing that there was so much underground stuff there and it caved in.
	And that's when the F-170s started flying out.
	And they couldn't fly it as often as they wanted to because they could only use part of it because of this cave-in.
	And that's when they designed and built the second runway.
	Okay.
	And the second runway was built in, what are you saying?
	What year?
	I'll get you an exact date.
	It's the late 80s.
	Okay.
	Fair enough.
	We can ask him.
	There's no such thing as Hadron, Ziggs, Boson.
	You don't think so?
	The CERN experiments is complete bullshit.
	ET had to shut it down or else it was going to make a big blow up.
	Okay, I've been told something different.
	I've been told that it is, CERN is basically, they're building an interdimensional portal that goes to the Draco system, which allows the reptoids, what are called the reptoids, to bring in large equipment, and that they have to keep that gate open, and that's mainly what they're doing at CERN. Okay, don't believe it.
	Stonehenge rocks were moved around to prevent figuring out what they meant.
	April Glaspie was the one that assured Saddam Hussein that the U.S. would take no action if he attacked Kuwait.
	Do you remember her?
	Yes, I remember that story.
	The speed of sound was broken by Slick Goodland, who worked for Bell, not Chuck Yeager.
	And those of us that know that...
	We get pissed off every time we see Chuck Yeager taking the credit for that when it was slipped.
	And those tapes are hidden in the NASA files.
	We gave NASA an SR-71 in 1990, and the deal was that they told Gorbachev that if he would not supply any help to Saddam Hussein, including Personnel, weapons, ammunition, everything, that they would give him an SR-71, support it for five years, and teach their people to fly it.
	And I have a person that saw it there, there's no doubt.
	All right.
	Clones are real.
	Absolutely.
	You know I interviewed Norm Bergram based on your recommendation, and then he disappeared.
	You know that?
	No.
	I knew that, what's her name, interviewed him, and the tape, when she got home, had gone bad.
	I'm the only one who's interviewed him.
	Was the tape okay?
	Yeah, it's online.
	I want you to watch it.
	He disappeared right after I interviewed him.
	They took him back to...
	Go to work.
	He said, I've got a team.
	They're taking me back to work.
	They're building me a whole lab.
	He was like 85?
	Yeah, I know.
	Or whatever it was.
	Yeah.
	We went there because of you.
	Because you told us about the ringmakers of Saturn.
	He's a brilliant man.
	Right.
	We had a fabulous interview.
	There was nothing wrong with our tape.
	But, okay, so it was somebody else.
	A girl.
	I don't know who that is.
	Your age.
	Your type.
	She has a radio show.
	The Rainmaker.
	Rainmaker.
	I don't know who she is.
	Anyway, he disappeared.
	So maybe she was there before me.
	I don't know.
	But he disappeared.
	But you need to watch the interview.
	You'd love it.
	Sun has 40 ET civilizations living inside it.
	Fascinating.
	That's all I got.
	Okay, closing statement?
	Closing statement.
	Like what?
	Just say, you know, it's been great talking to you, John.
	And we've loved being here.
	Can you say some closing statement about what it's like to have been investigating this story for this long?
	Are you frustrated?
	Are you happy?
	Are you finding new things every day?
	What would you say?
	That it's really interesting to have you here and telling me the nice things that you said about me tonight.
	I really appreciate that.
	I needed that.
	I needed that, Carrie.
	So let me tell you that everybody wants to know what we're doing on Earth.
	All you have to know is you need to live your life with integrity and without envy, hate, and greed.
	And you remember Steve Jobs, when he passed away, his family was standing around his bed, and what did he say just 30 seconds before he died?
	He said, Oh, wow.
	Oh, wow.
	Oh, wow!
	And what he was seeing was the entrance place to the fourth dimension, and that's where you meet all the people you knew in your previous lives.
	And then you go to the life review, and they show you everything that ever happened to you in 3D, and you better have been good because it's there.
	All right.
	Can you tell me, have you enjoyed being an investigator?
	It's been interesting.
	Sometimes it's exciting.
	Sometimes it's frustrating.
	Sometimes you'll meet with somebody who you think really has it together, and they won't agree with something you say, and that's hard to take.
	But not many.
	Okay.
	Well, it's a joy for us to see you again.
	And I hope we can have you on the show and do this long distance as well and get into even more stuff.
	I've got questions for you that's based on some of the stuff I've been hearing.
	And I'd love to get your take on things.
	We didn't have time today.
	We really delved into what you've got.
	But I'd love to get your take on things as they come along because you've got a huge backlog of information and knowledge that you've built over the years.
	Okay, Carrie, it's been great, I'm telling you.
	I really enjoyed having you up here.
	Thank you.
	And I know people really love you.
	Of all my interviews, they always say, we love your John Lear interviews.
	So, thank you very much.
	And thank you for your service to humanity.
	Great.

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