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July 22, 2019 - Project Camelot

02:35:02

COLIN WOOLFORD ALIEN AUTOPSY - PART TWO - EDITED

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	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	Thank you.
	And so it's been a sort of a challenge to get all of this organized, but what we're doing is we're not going to have any So you can go and watch the alien autopsy in numerous places all over the internet, all over YouTube, and that should be sufficient for you.
	You can pull that up now if you want to be looking at pictures.
	We're going to describe what he's talking about and so on.
	But we have had some issues with regard to copyright and that is why I got a strike on my main YouTube channel.
	So We're hoping to get this onto my main YouTube channel.
	However, the trouble is that we just don't know what will actually happen when we attempt to go on there with this show.
	They're trying to clamp down basically on people talking about the subject for some reason.
	Colin, welcome to the show.
	Hi, Carrie.
	It's great to be back again.
	Okay.
	Colin is a UFO researcher.
	He's spent Many years at this point investigating this story and he has already given us half or I guess maybe one third of his presentation but we actually have it on BitChute so Project Camelot BitChute look up Colin Wolford or Project Camelot BitChute and it's over there we removed all the photos all the so-called offending footage that
	the two parties that are arguing over Who owns the copyright?
	So one of those people is Santilli and the other is Malaris.
	So those are the names of the two people that claim copyright over this footage.
	And what footage?
	I can't even begin to say which is which.
	So we're not even going to go down that road.
	So Colin, again, welcome.
	And if you can kind of launch into this Maybe give a summary of what we did in Part 1.
	Yeah, thanks, Kerry.
	Just a quick statement, as before, I'm just setting the story out straight away.
	I'd like to make it clear that I am of the opinion about the alien autopsy and debris footage.
	So that's the two alien autopsy pieces of footage, and the debris footage are genuine.
	Okay, we actually can't see you, so I'm not sure.
	Yeah, it's something to do with the focusing on my camera.
	I don't know where it's playing off.
	Sorry.
	Sorry, Kerry.
	Yeah, the incident should not be confused with the more famous Roswell crutches, which are believed to have come down in early July.
	But this was of another crash that took place at Noble Canyon in Socorro, New Mexico, on May 31st, 1947, as per the cameraman's statement, which was released in late 1995.
	I believe it is an ongoing conspiracy to conceal the truth of this matter.
	So that's just my, that's a statement that's also on my Facebook group page, Alien Autopsy Analysis, that you can check out.
	So what happened last time was we got quite far into it, but I just want to go over just a basic for people.
	I know there were some sound issues there as well, and I apologise for that.
	So we got cut off, which that was nothing to do with me.
	Anyway, so the story about the alien autopsy in a nutshell, just to really do a quick recap, It involves a gentleman who's an entrepreneur called Ray Santilli.
	He's involved in the music business in regard to leasing out pieces of footage and films.
	Okay, I'm going to have to...
	Sorry to interrupt you here.
	I'm going to have to ask you not to...
	Sort of move things around as you're talking because anything the mic picks up will tend to cloud your voice.
	So it's important that you...
	Sorry about this.
	Go ahead.
	It's okay.
	So he was...
	Ray was a user of Italian descent.
	He was born in 1955 and he was in Cleveland, Ohio in 1992.
	He was looking for some footage of Elvis.
	He put some adverts out.
	Back then, there was no internet, of course, and he was out there on the July 4th weekend in Cleveland, and he got hold of some famous footage of Elvis.
	This was a famous piece, Pied Piper of Cleveland.
	It was from a 1955 music documentary.
	Now, when he was out there, he met this cameraman who claimed he also had some footage of...
	Whether he was the one who also had the Elvis footage is not 100% clear, but it certainly implied that this was the man who also had the Elvis footage.
	Anyway, he told Ray that he had some very interesting footage of no less than an alien autopsy and he was invited back to his home where he lived in Clearwater, Florida.
	Obviously, Ray being an entrepreneur, you know, in the market for an interesting piece of footage, you know, it's certainly something too good to be true.
	But, you know, you have to understand that he wasn't a ufologist or anything like that.
	He was just looking to make money out of some interesting piece of film and he hoped to market it.
	and basically the cameraman has showed him what we know of the alien autopsy footage, the more famous one that's come out I believe, that was originally shown in the factual fiction in 1995.
	Okay.
	I understand.
	Sure.
	I will.
	It's okay.
	So...
	Basically, there was a cameraman.
	He gave out a statement.
	You can read that statement on Kerry's page.
	I believe that she had it up there.
	This was, he was telling his story about Operation Anvil and it was basically, he was invited by these two generals, Tui was one of them, General McMullen These were quite big names.
	Basically, he was taken to a crash retrieval site in Socorro, New Mexico, where he was told to film these two autopsies.
	He basically filmed the debris and later on there was a lab set up in Dallas-Fort Worth and he was made to film the second and third autopsies.
	The first autopsy, the creature that's apparently died at the site, And there was a fourth one that was actually alive until 1949, and that one was said to have been autopsied in Washington.
	Now, I sort of introduced some characters like Reg Presley, who you may know from the Trogs.
	He was a famous musician, did Lovers All Around and Wild Thing.
	And he was a friend of Ray Santilli's, and he was quite early, he was involved in the early days of the alien autopsy.
	In fact, his mention of it on a TV show really got the press all in a diva about it, really.
	And Ray's original attention was to just market it, but obviously it got all out of control, the idea that someone had this piece of footage, or pieces of footage, because it wasn't just the alien autopsy, there was another autopsy, and there was also this debris footage.
	There was also another piece of footage which muddied the watered somewhat, which was known as the tent footage, and I addressed that in the other video.
	It's not connected to the film that the cameraman made, so if you want to know more about that, then I'm sure you can hear that in the original interview.
	The money was put up by someone, because basically the cameraman was needing funds for his daughter's or granddaughter's wedding, I believe, his granddaughter, and so he was looking to make some money and the money, Ray didn't...
	Although he had actually seen the footage in 1992, he didn't actually bring it over to this country, England, in 1994, to the very end of 1994.
	And it was said that Volker Spielberg, this German businessman involved in the music industry, he helped finance a lot of that stuff.
	I should just show you this...
	I don't know if you can see that there, but that's the original sell-through video that Ray marketed.
	It's quite rare to get now.
	It was only available online, basically.
	It cost you about It's not a book, sorry.
	This is a vintage.
	It's a VHS. It's a VHS. I know.
	It's like we've gone back in time, isn't it?
	Yes.
	So that's what...
	Yeah, so just reading you the back, because this is how it was marketed.
	Okay, sorry to slow you down one second.
	Are you saying, is this the one that was released initially by Santilli?
	It's the one that you saw on the Rob Kvyat, Fact or Fiction.
	With the exception of one thing, as far as the British, there was a few seconds intro.
	At the very start of the Alien Autopsy, there's a few seconds intro where...
	You can see the camera going up some steps into supposedly the autopsy room and that's only available on this.
	You can find it on my page as well.
	I've actually uploaded some of those clips and there's some still photos.
	These were allegedly, the first three seconds or so, were supposedly the ones that were analysed by Broshow, who's a famous person involved in Photography and he helped validate, allegedly, depending on what side of the story, he helped validate it as being from 1947, 1967.
	Or 1927.
	Yeah, so, and it had these squares and triangles.
	But basically, just to read out the blurb, maybe I should just read out how it was markedly.
	On the back it says, in the early hours of the 2nd of June...
	Well, actually, this is referring to, interestingly, on the back here about the Roswell, so...
	No, that's right, actually.
	In the early hours of the 2nd of June, 1947, southwest of Socorro, New Mexico, something extraordinary happened.
	It is now omitted that the U.S. military weakly suppressed the truth of the events that night for almost 50 years, making it one of the The best-kept secrets in modern history was where the video contains all the viewable material taken from the reels of films received from the man believed to be the Roswell cameraman.
	In addition, this footage includes an autopsy of an alleged alien being and footage of supposedly of Dave...
	Sorry.
	Sorry.
	Supposedly of...
	So this was...
	No, this was marketed by Ray Centilli's company and...
	It's actually...
	Yeah, it's...
	So it's got the original alien autopsy footage and it's also got a documentary narrated by Brian Blessed and Philip Mantle, I think, outs with some of that production.
	But yeah, this was only available...
	Is it like an exclusive limited edition?
	But basically it just has the footage, but usually it actually has the real numbers.
	It will show you the clips and then it will have the real numbers on there, so that's something you don't see on the actual, the more famous Bob Kvyat, or even online if you go on Orbital Media, which was very Santilli's.
	I probably can't even show that poster.
	Sorry, I'm muted.
	This VHS is not available to the general public?
	It was only available online.
	Don't get me wrong.
	It's basically the same footage that you can get on DVD other than the documentary.
	People had Clifford Stone on it and a few other people and it also had this few free seconds, literally free seconds of footage of the cameraman filming Going up some steps, supposedly, into this autopsy room.
	And this was the footage that Bob Shaw supposedly used to validate as being from that time period, 1947.
	Okay.
	So that was basically, that was sold for £33 in England in 1995 online.
	So, I just wanted to say that, you know, we also referred to in the first one about their attempts to debunk the AA footage where you may remember, Kerry, that this alien replica face was sent to 14 Times Magazine.
	Do you remember that from last time?
	They were literally a few days before the showing on August 28th around the world.
	There was this replica alien head which was presented and implying that it showed someone with plastic gloves and not the same alien but something similar.
	So obviously Trying to imply that this thing that was about to break was just going to be a hoax.
	I mean, if it was a hoax, why was some other special effects artists sending photos of it to the Fortune Times, which is a famous magazine here in England, named after Charles Fort.
	So there was already some strange things going on.
	Okay, can you repeat the year that that happened?
	Yeah, I mean, that was literally on the 22nd of August, I can read it out to you, and 14 times they received an envelope containing three black and white prints showing someone touching up the head of an alien with an airbrush and makeup paints.
	The head showed a remarkable similarity to the head in the Santilli film, but there are subtle differences in the detail and location of its nostrils and ears.
	It is clearly a clever copy by a skilled model maker who could not resist the challenge.
	We still have no idea of the origin of these pictures or why they were sent to us.
	They were accompanied by a compliment slip from Morgana Productions, clearly a jokey reference to Santilli's holding company Merlin.
	Morgan Le Fay was King Arthur's sister in legend.
	It may be a glorious coincidence.
	Similar photos were sent to before us, Philip Mantua and Union Pictures, who made the Roswell incident documentary here in England for Channel 4.
	Okay, but again, what year was this?
	This was literally, this was August 22nd that was sent to the offices.
	Of what year?
	Of what year?
	1995.
	1995, okay.
	So this is when, so literally six days later, it was shown on, you know, the famous Jonathan Freights, Bob Kivyak production, you know, show, Fact or Fiction, and at the same time we had a, we had a secret history show on Channel 4, The Roswell incident.
	They were doing a documentary about Roswell and of course they thought it was too good to be true.
	They didn't have a lot.
	They had about ten minutes, maybe five to ten minutes at the end.
	But what I'm implying here is obviously that someone was wanting people to believe that this piece of footage that was being shown was at least a hoax, implying that it wasn't genuine.
	So you had basically the Jonathan Frakes TV show, Fact or Fiction, and that actually garnered quite a huge viewing audience at that time.
	It was one of the most watched shows.
	And I think you might remember the Roger Lear interview from last time as well, Kerry, where he was...
	Absolutely.
	I mean, it was very interesting, and people hopefully can...
	You can Google it if you can't, if it's not been re-uploaded.
	I don't know if it's still...
	I mean, I don't see if there's no copyright claim on that.
	So that would be...
	Roger Lear being the famous ufologist surgeon who did a lot of surgeries and getting implants from abductees.
	And he certainly would be someone who basically validated it.
	And even after the claims it was a hoax, he was still saying that he believed it was real.
	Okay.
	For some reason, your sound just went down.
	Okay.
	Quite a bit lower, I don't know why.
	Yes, so basically he was validating it, Roger, and he had that background.
	Right, this is the late Roger Lear.
	For those of you who may or may not know, he was famous for removing alien implants and had done a great deal of research in this whole area.
	I met him in person and have seen him speak more than once, I believe, in the past.
	And it is a very important part of this story that he validates that from a physician's point of view, he was a doctor, that the autopsy was real.
	The alien body was not human from his perspective.
	And he goes into some detail.
	But all of that footage is actually still on my first page.
	Part with you.
	And again, you can watch that on BitChute.
	I will try again to put it back up when I feel like they're not going to...
	Because what happened with the copyright strike is that they would not give us any indication of what they owned.
	So it was like they owned the whole interview, which of course they can't.
	They don't own people and they don't own people's right to speak about it.
	So because they and YouTube would not tell us exactly the time code of the offending part of our last interview...
	I have no way of knowing what is a violation or not in violation.
	And so on.
	So anyway, the Roger Lear footage, however, is there.
	So if you want to see it, go to BitChute, Project Camelot, BitChute again.
	And there is also a television show.
	Can you briefly summarize that television show where they just talk about the subject?
	Is that right?
	Are you talking about the fact of Robert Kvyat's Fact or Fiction show?
	Well, I don't think Kvyat was on it, but I could be wrong.
	There was a talk show host.
	Maybe he was on it.
	I don't know.
	Are you mean Eamon Holmes?
	Are you referring to the one that came out?
	It's whatever you had on your presentation in the first part that we...
	Okay, I didn't get that far, so I'm not quite sure if...
	Oh, all right.
	Oh, sorry, unless you're referring to the clip we showed of Reg Presley on Breakfast TV with Busty Taylor.
	Oh, yes, okay.
	And we have lost your picture again.
	Yeah, sorry, that was...
	That was Busty and Reg were...
	Basically, that clip was from January 1995.
	So this story broke kind of around there.
	I mean, once Reg Presley had said that, you know, he dropped the bombshell that he had seen this alien autopsy footage, albeit that was a tent footage, which was a sort of...
	Supposedly, that was a made...
	Well, I won't go into all the 10th footage.
	You can read that, watch that again on the original.
	But basically, he mentioned that Ray had some footage of an alien autopsy, and that's what he was saying on that clip, and that was January 1995, and that really generated a huge amount of interest in the subject.
	And I should just say, talking about Roger Lear, there was also a number of other people Who, like the Italian surgeons, also gave the impression that it was a genuine autopsy.
	It was, you know, as...
	At all, autopsies would be done back then.
	And, you know, as I said in the first presentation, I always value the actual surgeons, pathologists, rather than so-called special effects artists.
	Not that special effects artists aren't valid, but I just, you know, they're not the ones doing autopsies and, you know, surgeons, surgeries and stuff.
	So that's why I value their opinion over special effects artists.
	I'm not dismissing special effects artists, but...
	You know, unless you can find it.
	I would say that's very logical, of course.
	You know, when we're trying to do Validate whether an autopsy is the real thing.
	I have to say that that's the forte of doctors, right?
	People that do autopsies.
	Special effects artists don't do autopsies, generally speaking.
	No.
	That's not to say that some, you know, these model makers would be studying anatomy and stuff, but they wouldn't.
	You know, they wouldn't be doing autopsies or dissections, as some people actually call this.
	More of a dissection, because some people are saying, well, if it's an autopsy, we're trying to find the cause of death.
	But then we may not know how these beings, some of them may have died from an attack by some of the soldiers at the scene, so they would have known how those ones died.
	It seems like, if you see the burn, it looks like burning on the right leg of the famous footage, where we see, like, pieces of skin missing, so it looks like there's some burn damage there.
	So anyway, I'm getting up to the point, really, where I left off at the last talk, which was, I was showing the camera that was used, this Bell& Howell 16mm Filmo camera.
	And they were showing images of the alien autopsy, which you can find on YouTube if you just put alien autopsy, orbital media, you can find that.
	And the being, if you're not familiar with it, it was unusual because it had a distended stomach.
	Now, I don't believe, as far as I'm aware, these beings were like that when alive.
	This was something that happened very shortly after they died.
	Maybe there was some build-up of some air or some issues through the death process.
	It's not totally clear, but it seems a very strange thing that you would fake something looking like that with a distended stomach.
	You know, this is something I find Very, you know, convincing.
	Would that really be something you would portray, you know, with this extended summit?
	It would actually make it more difficult, I would say.
	And these beings were very unusual.
	It was certainly not what you would call your local, like, Zeta Reticuli-type being that we're familiar with, or the greys, as people call them.
	Because this one looked far more muscular, and if you look at the body structure, Quite muscular, but also female organ, at least like what would appear to be a female sexual organ.
	Although if you look at the breasts, they don't actually, it's not clear even that they have a nipple or certainly there's no navel there.
	So it's implied to some people that these beings were either clones or some sort of biological robot even.
	And also we should say that there were six fingers on these beings or I should say five fingers and one thumb I guess so six digits would be the correct way of saying it and six toes as well so this is kind of interesting because there's lots of stories in history about Going back even to,
	you know, native legends where there's cave paintings of six-digit beings and stuff like that, and also through history, there's a record of, I believe, the giant and Cleopatra, I think she supposedly had six fingers.
	I was showing, when we got cut off last time, I was just showing the pictures of the eye removal.
	So if you watch the autopsy, you can actually see these black lenses that are being removed from the being's head, which ties in, I mean, I know Philip also came out, I think the day after Roswell, it was actually a couple of years after this footage appeared,
	but he sort of validated, and I think he does validate, I was talking to Paola Harrison, you know, he didn't He did see the alien autopsy and he also believed it was genuine and he describes these black lenses, how they realised that they had night vision and then by putting one of these lenses over their eyes they could actually see in the dark and obviously we have that technology now,
	night vision cameras and as Philip Corso mentioned in his book, a lot of these technologies were Back engineered into various fibre optics we hear about and all these other things.
	So it does sort of tie in with a lot of stuff that we believe was happening in the 1940s and that these were all outsourced to various corporations to work on.
	So it's fascinating to see the actual footage and sort of Link it to what people have said and, you know, the idea that these debris footage, if you look at the debris footage, which should be at the end of the autopsy, if you watch it online, you'll see some...
	Actually, I'll go into debris footage in a minute.
	I just finished talking about the alien and there was signs of a bruise on the left-hand side of their head.
	Because if you listen to the cameraman's statement, he said that one of the soldiers did attack the creature which were crying out in pain and holding these boxes.
	Now there's been some confusion.
	These boxes they were holding, whether these boxes Are the actual panels that are seen in the debris footage, the six-finger panels, and I do believe they are because I'm not aware of the boxes.
	I believe the boxes are the six-finger panels and they may have been mobile instruments from the craft.
	So when they refer to them holding and screaming, carrying these boxes, as far as I'm aware, I'm not aware of Okay, but to be clear, this was not the common...
	Commonly thought Roswell crash, correct?
	This is a different one.
	This was supposedly May 31st 1947 and this was what the cameraman gave in his statement.
	Oh, and the cameraman's statement, just so everyone knows, is on our original page on my website.
	Yeah, and also on my Alien Autopsy Facebook analysis page.
	You can read it.
	It's pinned to the top.
	Okay, so Colin, what is your site?
	What is the URL? Just go Facebook, just insert alienautopsyanalysis.com.
	A-A-A, well, don't put A-A-A, but put A in autopsy analysis, basically, and you'll find a picture.
	And what you'll see is you'll see a coloured version of the famous photo of the alien.
	And the reason all that's in colour is because I use the colour filter for some pictures and it just I brought the images more to life and a lot of those photos on there are actually from the beta cam footage, which is a better quality video.
	So if you're wondering why those photos are so good quality compared to the ones you're more familiar to seeing, then that's because I was given the beta cam footage by a researcher.
	I had that footage and it's a very, very good quality, much clearer picture.
	So, yeah, there were some strange things in this footage.
	Just to say that there was a strange pyramid-shaped crystal which was removed from the body.
	You can watch the surgeon actually put his finger into this strange, like, triangular pyramid.
	It's one of the more interesting, well, it's all a very interesting thing, but that's one of the more famous type scenes in that video with the Pyramid-type crystal.
	So we had this very badly wounded being and it was opened up, they opened up the stomach area and they even pulled back the The face, sorry, the scalp, you know, it's very graphic.
	And I think when it was shown on Fact or Fiction, they actually digitized the sexual organ.
	So, you know, it's not something, in fact, sort of screamish.
	And, you know, after I watched it, I sort of did start watching autopsies of human autopsies just to see You know, what a dead body looks like, because when that spark of life goes out of a body, the body does become almost like a dummy, like a doll.
	You know, it almost looks like that person, for instance, you know, once that spark of life is gone, the soul has left the body, then it does look almost like a mannequin.
	So just to give that and make that point for people who aren't used to seeing dead bodies, There were some interesting things in this video with the microphone hanging down which you can see and you can see the guy, one of the surgeons, talking on the microphone and he's talking to the guy who's in the window behind the autopsy table and there's been a lot made about why this guy...
	Obviously all the surgeons are wearing these sort of biohazard suits I would imagine because, obviously, of the pathogens and the...
	you know, if you're dealing with an alien body, I mean, even if...
	I don't believe this was the first crash by any means that we know about Cape Gerardo, and I believe that they may have even been relics left over from the 19th century, even though that they may have come across bodies, craft, And so I definitely believe that, even the Nazi Germany, they were probably having crashed UFOs from the 30s and before that.
	So when people say, oh, this, you know, this autopsy looks, you know, you wouldn't, you'd take absolutely ages filming it and being professional, you know, and doing, I just call it, I just don't buy that because not only would they have done autopsies before this one, this was, I believe, the second or third one from this crash.
	You know, I don't, I don't, I don't buy when people say there'll be a fixed camera and stuff like that.
	This has all been explained away, but I mean, the guy, just going back to the point about why the guy's wearing a surgeon's mask in the, in the window, people say, well, why, why would he, if he's hiding behind the window and he's not taking part in the actual autopsy or dissection of himself, you know, why is he hiding behind the mask?
	Well, that kind of, The reason I would actually believe that's the case is because this is a video that would be shown to other people in the community, intelligence agencies, and it's been claimed that it was shown to the Chinese, I guess, and other groups.
	There's also a level of secrecy.
	So if you have your agents identifying people from top secret videos, they'd be very interested in who these people are.
	So I actually believe One of the reasons that the surgeon behind the window is wearing a mask is mostly to conceal his identity, not because it's a hoax, but because the reason being that they would not want these operatives who would be very high up at that time and maybe were part of MJ-12, that original group, if you believe that.
	So I'm just saying that because It's not like his face is totally obscured, and I'll talk about this later, because you can see his eyebrows, you can see his nose, you can see his ears, you can see the shape of his shoulders, and there are some interesting things when you match it with who the supposed hoaxers say is actually that man behind the window, which we'll get onto later.
	But just to round up that also, what was going on in that room, there was also a telephone.
	And his telephone had a curly wire, and everyone was up in arms saying, well, we wouldn't have that in the 1940s, 1947.
	But that's been found to be incorrect, and that we did have these curly phones as early as 1945.
	There's also another interesting piece, there's lots of bits in the film, like there's a clock on the wall, there's also the autopsy table where you can see all the tools from the autopsy.
	You've got the table itself, and then there's been some claim that this was being made by someone, the table itself.
	I think it was, as far as the cameraman said, he says this lad, which was set up in Dallas, It's set up specifically for this operation.
	So I actually believe that this table may well have been built specifically for this These autopsies, these three autopsies which would have happened.
	We don't know what happened with the first autopsy, I should say that, because the cameraman only did two, three and four, and the fourth one was in 49.
	So these two were early, I think it was towards the end of June, from memory, or it might be early July, the autopsies were actually done.
	So I think these two actually did live a bit And that will sort of add credence to someone else's claims, which we'll get into later.
	The other thing I want to say is in the autopsy room, there's a sign on the wall, and it says, and if you can see the sign, and obviously I can't show the image here, There's a sign just to the left of the telephone,
	and this has actually been worked out pretty much what it actually says, and it says danger, maximum working time, and then it's got a number, and it looks like it could be, I'm not sure if it says three or four, but then it says hours, so basically the sign says maximum working time, Such and such hours.
	And it's got the big familiar, I guess you've still got that in America, Kerry, the familiar famous red danger sign, which is on a black background, red, white and black.
	I think they still use it and you can find images of those classic danger signs.
	So again, it's something very interesting that's actually in the film that we can investigate and analyse.
	There's also some notes being made.
	There's a nurse.
	There's a woman in the room.
	You can clearly see her breasts through her uniform.
	There's scenes where there's someone writing notes where they're taking out organs from the body.
	They're weighing them.
	You can see, although it's not Quite as clear, even as the Rainy Memo, we can see some notes being written, and test tubes, bunts and burners, and so someone's making some notes there.
	And like I say, there's a microphone, and obviously there's some dialogue going on where things are being analysed.
	So for me...
	Okay, so what I wanted to do briefly was also bring up what the whole...
	It's interesting, this whole alien situation is now heating up the alien autopsy.
	So it was a...
	You might call it a synchronicity, serendipity, that you and I decided to delve into this together, at least on my show.
	And then at the exact same time, or very soon after that, Kit Green, we don't know who released this information, but a bunch of documents.
	It's about 12 pages of a document.
	And I actually have the document here.
	I'm going to throw it on the screen quickly so that people can see.
	And I know you have your own copy, Colin.
	So what I just want to say is that if you look at it here, it says he was...
	Just to summarize these documents, Kit Green is actually saying he believes it might have been a training video for people who were learning how to do alien autopsies, and that is the reason why there was some...
	You know, sort of things going on in the room that maybe normally wouldn't have had.
	It wasn't a clean room, but he said back in the 40s, they may not have operated that way.
	And also, if it's a training video, in other words, it already been vetted.
	You know, they already knew the body wasn't containing.
	Maybe it was sterilized or whatever it was.
	I thought that was a good point that Kit made.
	This is in the documents.
	And these are documents, his emails back and forth to Hal Pudoff and Eric Davis, who are part of this Wilson document leak as well.
	And another individual whose name is, well, Bob Bigelow is copied as well as Colm Callaher from NIDS. And in the documents, Kit clearly says that this autopsy is a real autopsy that in his estimation,
	and he's a very famous CIA doctor, he was He was shown three different times during and after his tenure at CIA. Topics relevant to UFOs and the Roswell incident as well as the alien autopsy shown the footage.
	He interacted with Santilli as well.
	And this is all in 2001, but also going back to a briefing in 1987-88.
	And then again in 91, 92.
	So it's quite fascinating that we've got this coming forward at a time when the whole thing is heating up and cooling.
	Colin, we can't see your face again.
	I think you might have your camera on something called autofocus.
	You might take it off autofocus.
	I was trying to work out where that was.
	Yeah, if you managed to do that, that would really be nice.
	But at any rate, I just wanted to bring up the fact that he does bring some things to the fore in this memo.
	It's on my website already under Kit Green Alien Autopsy.
	And I have invited him on my show, by the way.
	To talk about it, but he's also, he's done an interview just very recently with Rich Dolan, and some reason the video will not be released, but the transcript of the audio will be, but hasn't been yet.
	That happened several days ago, and we're still waiting for the release.
	I don't think even transcript.
	It might just be a summary.
	I don't even think...
	Oh, well, according to what I've read on Rich's site, I mean, everyone can go to Rich Dolan's website and double-check this.
	But I'm quite sure that he said it was a transcript.
	It was going to be literally a transcript of the conversation he had with Kit Green.
	Now, if they change that, trouble is Kit Green has now changed his story.
	Just so people know that it may seem like we're going back in history here and we want to cover the history very carefully here with Colin.
	But I just want people to realize that this is a very...
	Right now subject because new testimony is coming forward.
	Kit Green is saying, again, it's a real autopsy.
	It's a real body.
	But now, unlike the past, he said it was an alien in the past.
	It was not human.
	But now he is claiming, according to Rich Dolan, that it is not human.
	An alien.
	But we don't know what that means.
	Does that mean it's suddenly human?
	Or does it mean, in other words, and why would he change his mind all these years later, really nearly 20 years later after even more than these memos came out?
	So that's just a quick summary, but I wanted to bring that up so people could be...
	Well, it's also interesting to mention that there was no cover story.
	I mean, the cover story was still, I think, 2006.
	So, you know, he was talking before any sort of cover story come out, so that should be noted as well.
	Okay, so yeah, but the nurse, I mean, all the things going on in the room, Kit seemed to not have a problem with that, did not feel that any of those things.
	I was arguing with Mars the other day about this telephone, and for me, that's not a problem because, you know, they have that in surgeries.
	You know, you would use that phone to ring upstairs to get certain items delivered to the room or whatever.
	It doesn't mean you're going to pick up the phone while you're taking some brain matter out of an alien.
	You're not going to suddenly pick up the phone.
	I'm just saying that you would use these phones, you know, order stuff to the lab, basically, and I don't think there's anything...
	No, I've never had anyone sort of mention that that was an issue before over the last 25 years, regarding there being a phone in the room.
	Okay, fair enough.
	So where do you want to go from here?
	Yeah, so I'm just...
	Just finishing up on the strange, well, it removes the skullcap, but I'll talk a little bit about the day reef footage, because some people aren't aware about the day reef footage, and this is like a two-minute film.
	Like I say, if you go to the Autopsy, the Orbital Media video on YouTube, you can see that, or you might even be able to find it.
	And the Roswell debris, but to confuse matters, obviously it's not Roswell.
	But the debris footage is about two minutes long, and what you're seeing in that footage is a couple of tables with all sorts of melted metal, and I wouldn't say they're like iron beams.
	They're much bigger than what Mac Brazel saw at the Roswell launch a month or two, a month later or so.
	This seems to be totally different from any of the debris.
	Also, Jesse Marcel's son, when he looked at this footage of the debris, he wasn't What he was familiar as handing as a young boy.
	So if people can watch that, it's not just those beams with inscriptions on.
	There's also very interesting...
	What links it with the autopsy, of course, is there's these six-fingered panels.
	There's like three that are shown, and one's actually severed almost in the halves.
	And again, very difficult thing that you would hope that you would have this hand panel that looks like it has been severed, I guess through the crash, but you can see what would appear to be things like either electronics or fibre optic type stuff coming out of it.
	So that's very curious.
	If you can get...
	Watch some of those stills.
	It's very intriguing.
	All these items are also labelled with numbers.
	You can see these brown tags.
	What's important to mention here is also there was a soldier in this footage and it's relevant for one of my claims about why I don't think it's a hoax.
	You can see the soldier but obviously you can just see his hands and his hands are quite distinctive.
	Make a note of that, because I'm going to be referring to that later on.
	And it's quite graphic, so you can ID someone from their hands, and I'll be getting onto this later on.
	But he's holding up these panels.
	He's also holding up these strange, what would be considered hieroglyphic, and people have said it's from possibly Greek, Atlantean even, And there's been a bit of debate about what this writing has, what it's been decoded as being.
	And I think one of them was decoded as being Elephatia, a Greek word which means freedom.
	And I think the other one was decoded as being Isis, which is the Egyptian goddess, which in my own research I've come across.
	Now, the person who claims he hoaxed it, he says that he put this information in there.
	But I don't really buy that.
	I don't think this is disinformation.
	I actually do believe this is what has been said.
	And there was actually...
	An archaeologist who was interviewed for one of the Santilli's films and he gave this information about what it said on this beam about it saying freedom and one of them referring to Isis which is interesting because in my own studies I've come across Isis in regards to the UFO subject and that's one of the great goddesses from Egyptian History and that's interesting that her name would be
	on this craft.
	Now there were some stills from the film that are available but were never actually in the footage so it's kind of intriguing that there was something to the claim that some of the film had degraded.
	There was a famous still of the soldier holding up both two of these panels with the six-finger Hand panels on and it seems to be some like fibre optic or some where the hand is placed over the actual hand print and there's like a semi-circle with almost like some fibre optics and there's a further one with like little holes.
	It looks like that there was some sort of communication.
	The beings would put their hands on the craft and I guess through some sort of telepathic psychic link that they were at one with the vehicle and they controlled the vehicle and I believe...
	Actually, if you can look at a picture, I can't...
	I guess show you the photo but it's of the soldier holding these two panels and it's a sunken so where the hand goes there's like a sunken so the hand would fit into the panel but there's like these little holes underneath it as if it's almost like a circuit so when the being put their hand on the actual device they were They were touching these little nodules on the debris
	and they were controlling via these types of fibre optics.
	It's not totally clear but it seems like you can see many of these little dots on the footage where they seem to be interacting with some sort of...
	basically with these panels and I believe that they were controlling the craft and Actually, this technology is now sort of marketed nowadays, something called data hands, so it's funny how things supposedly from the 1940s crash are now sort of appearing again in the future.
	Well, I mean, if you read the Corso book, whatever it's called, Something After Roswell, he talks about that actually was his job to go and get...
	The reverse engineered, you know, to reverse engineer and organize that stuff and make all of that stuff get into the mainstream via the commercial route.
	So, this is well documented, this process.
	Yeah, exactly.
	So, that's the footage out of the way.
	Now, the next important thing to talk about, I guess, would be the May the 50th.
	So, I'm just leading up to the actual...
	This was shown on August 28th, but there was also a showing to the public, not public, to certain UFO researchers on May 5th in the Museum of London.
	And when it was first shown for the first time to the UFO researchers, certain people had been invited over, and although some were upset that they weren't showing it, I think Timothy Good felt upset that he wasn't Given a viewing of it, I think Stanton was obviously still in America, I don't think.
	But there were some prominent UFO researchers there.
	Now, the reaction of the audience was mixed.
	Some thought the film was a fake.
	A few whispered their belief that it might be real.
	Others simply weren't sure.
	But few, if any, laughed at some 18 minutes of film purporting to show the dissection of a non-human entity.
	Now, London-based writer and renowned crop circle creator Robert Irving wrote in the 14th Times at the time, he said, perhaps the strangest of all was the sight of that awkward mix of known believers in the ET hypothesis,
	known disbelievers, believed fakers of it, innocent ostentiousness and the downright disingenuous, all-hissing hoax, A piece of evidence that seemed to me as impressive as any I'd ever seen.
	But never in my lifetime I had expected to witness the subsequent cooperation between traditional adversaries all seemingly galvanised into an unprecedented gush of agreement, adopting what one of them called a proper sceptical attitude that the film was a transparent fraud.
	For whoever is responsible for the film has now provided ufologists with what I'd assumed they had always wanted, firm, enticingly inconclusive evidence that something out there has somehow got here.
	So that was quite an interesting statement from Rob Irving.
	He's famous for, you know, being involved in hoaxing crop circles.
	Right.
	It was, you know, they had no sound, obviously there's no sound there and I don't think many people had seen many autopsies, let alone supposedly what was an alien autopsy.
	Now, I should bring up this other autopsy footage now, Kerry, because There's also, going back...
	Okay, so, well, wait one second.
	What do you mean you're going to bring up other autopsy footage?
	So, what footage have you been talking about?
	The Santilli footage?
	The famous, the one that you can watch for 15 minutes.
	That's what was shown on, you know, Robert Kvyat's...
	Okay, but is this claim, is the claim...
	You know, I'm sorry, I have to be specific here because there's so much controversy.
	I want to understand, what you have been talking about is the footage that Santilli claims copyright.
	Is that correct?
	Yeah, exactly.
	Is that the exact same footage as Spyros claims copyright or not?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	So they both claim copyright, the exact same thing.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Okay, so what are you going to talk about now if it's different footage?
	Okay, this is getting to the cuts.
	It is a little confusing to me.
	I know, I know.
	We talked about the tenth footage.
	But basically what happened then, Colin Andrews, who I'm sure you know as being a cross-circle researcher, now he, along with Reg Presley, had a screening of the rarely seen first autopsy.
	Now, when we talk about the first autopsy, we're talking to confuse matters.
	There was Like I say, there was a being that died at the crash, then there was two that survived maybe, I guess, maybe a couple of weeks or so, until I believe the autopsies were done at the start of July, so they may have been alive for a couple of weeks, and then there was a fourth one.
	Now, let's say the one we're famous that's on the Fact or Fiction show and the one that's freely available.
	Let's call that the third one from the crash, okay?
	So what I'm talking about here is another 12-minute video of a being from the same crash and yet its leg is totally intact.
	But it's the same, you know, looks the same type being.
	It's supposedly, and now there's only, the weird thing is there was a showing of this on April 26th, so there was, at the end of April, not only did Colin Andrews and Reg Presley see it, I think Philip Mantle and his wife also saw it, and also the famous Italian researcher Maurizio Baiata, he also saw it with Reg Presley.
	In fact, he saw it twice.
	So what a lot of people don't realise in this subject is this other 12-minute video footage that's, like, disappeared off the face of the Earth.
	And it was actually far more graphic, and it was actually...
	I guess, I think what even Ray said, they felt that it was too graphic.
	There was more sort of gynecological sort of shots, so to say, and it was actually even more sort of graphic in nature of even clearer, brighter footage.
	I mean, I think the footage is quite bright and clear as it was.
	Okay, what do you mean by it disappeared off the face of the earth?
	If we can go watch it.
	Well, because, allegedly, this piece of footage, which has only been seen by, I guess, as far as we know, Colleen Andrews, Reg Presley, Maurizio Bajarta, Philip Mantle, and his wife, maybe a couple of other partners as well.
	This footage, suddenly, you can actually see five of these images online.
	There were some stills taken from it.
	And this footage has never resurfaced.
	If you believe Ray, what he said, if you remember what I said, someone called Volker Spielberg financed the money for the footage.
	It's been said that he Was allowed to keep this other autopsy because he was a collector.
	If you believe that story, that he has that footage now, I don't believe that's the case.
	If you believe the hoax person, he says that this footage was an incorrect medical procedure was done on it, and they had to tear up the body and start it all over again, which is preposterous.
	Okay.
	So basically the crux of the matter is that there was certain people who saw almost a similar type of autopsy, maybe in reverse order.
	I think it starts with the removal of the eye lenses and other bits, slightly a little bit different cuts or But far more graphic.
	Okay, just out of curiosity, this particular footage that you're describing, which you say disappeared, but then you say is in the hands of this Volker Spielberg?
	Well, the official version is that, yeah, supposedly...
	This footage is in the hands of Volker Spielberg, the German, also businessman.
	Okay, and what is this, does this footage have a name or anything?
	It's just another autopsy from the same crash, basically.
	I see.
	And the stills, okay, if people want to go look at the stills, where do they go?
	You can probably find it on my page, but I would say there's a good article by Maurizio Baiata on Open Minds website.
	So maybe if you Google Maurizio Baiata, B-A-I-A-T-A, Maurizio, there's a very good link.
	Because that will have some of those images, and you can see the leg fully intact, so this is obviously another being.
	So that's interesting about this footage, even if...
	Well, we'll get on to what Ray later said shortly, but it's an important point I make.
	Yeah, I actually didn't know about that.
	That's very interesting.
	And there's a lot of people who don't really want to talk about why has this footage disappeared, because...
	If you think it's a hoax, then that will be proof that it's a hoax.
	If you think it's a recreation, then it will add further You know, but it is a recreation, but for it to disappear and not be available, even though certain people have seen it, doesn't actually add up as being, well, why should that be?
	Why has this piece of footage that could add extra intrigue into this story?
	Why can't we view this?
	And it's one of the big, one of the, I don't know, top five things, I'd say, which makes me highly suspicious of this story.
	It was shown to Maurizio on April 26th by Chris Carey.
	Now, Chris Carey was involved in the distribution of Ray Santilli.
	He was one of Ray's associates.
	And this is someone I've reached out to and has never got back to me.
	And I've always been interested.
	Like I say, I've reached out to a lot of people.
	From both sides, supposedly on the hoax side, but supposedly on the genuine people at the time, and no one's talking, basically, other than the one person who wants to talk about it.
	Just out of curiosity, the photos that are on your Facebook page, the Alien Autopsy Analysis page, who claims, if anybody, the rights to those photos?
	Do we know?
	There's an interesting story there because there was an issue a year or so ago when the gentleman who removed your video also claimed for a number of photos.
	So, you know, it's the same issue, basically, Kerry, but, you know, it's the same.
	So it's not clear who owns those photos.
	Well, I mean...
	It's contentious.
	Yeah.
	But they haven't been able to take down your Facebook page.
	No, although I have in the past.
	They did remove, but there's so many photos on my page now that I don't think it's worth anyone's time to actually, I mean, you know...
	Where was this guy from 1995 to 2006?
	Right.
	Okay, well that is a big question.
	Yeah, yeah, exactly.
	Okay, so, all right, so moving on, moving on.
	Just to finish on that, so it was a similar length to the other autopsy, but there was no severed hand or leg damage, because the hand was also severed on the more famous one.
	Now, if Santelli thought it was graphic nature, it wouldn't be shown on TV, so it was, annoyingly, it was actually even more clearer than the one that we do get to see.
	Sadly, the better cam version isn't available on YouTube.
	I have got a version of that, but sadly the quality of the one that you see on YouTube isn't the greatest.
	So hopefully that will be released with a better quality one.
	But like I say, this other autopsy has totally disappeared and Volker Spielberg was claimed to be the man who had the That was his little piece that he had supposed, if you believe the official story, that he was allowed to keep that piece of footage for his own collection as a collector.
	The Volker Spielberg, is that correct?
	Yeah, yeah.
	And I mean, he was tracked down by this French TV channel which did a show on the alien autopsy again.
	I think not long after that August showing in France, they had a two- or three-hour show.
	They did some really good shows, actually.
	You can watch some of these shows on YouTube.
	Italy and France did.
	They sort of blew away, actually.
	I mean, England actually had one of the...
	Ironically, we had some of the worst coverage of the alien autopsy.
	I mean, in America, at least they showed it.
	You know, you had factual fiction, which was devoted to it.
	But literally, in England, we only had, like, ten minutes, whereas Italy...
	And France, they did a really good, they did a really serious, they got experts on you.
	I mean, if you can understand French in Italy, it's worth watching that on YouTube because there's literally a two hours to three hours show from Italy and France around that time with people like Santilli and a lot of these players, you know, on national TV. So I'm going to talk about the last autopsy now.
	So this is the fourth one, but it was the third one that this cameraman filmed.
	He didn't film the first one, I should add.
	So when people say, you know, I will reiterate again, you know, people think, oh, you would take your time and do this and it would be all in colour and whatever.
	I'm not saying that it wasn't colour footage as well, but there was supposedly reason that they were short on stock of film, but in that way it wasn't in colour.
	But basically this fourth autopsy was alleged, the cameraman said it was in May 1949, and apparently the cameraman said the fourth freak, because he uses the term freak, which is what the cameraman uses in his His statement, he said it lived for two more years.
	The autopsy was performed at Washington in a big auditorium in the presence of scientists in various states, also from England and France.
	Ray asked him, where had they kept the creature in prison for the two years?
	And the cameraman said, I don't know, but I heard they had been able to communicate with him.
	I think he's a more female.
	But they were able to communicate with a being without words, non-verbal, whatever that means.
	So that's just an interesting aside that there was a fourth autopsy and that this being lived for a couple of years.
	I mean, he also claims, if you remember, that the Roswell Yes.
	So wait, I don't understand.
	What happened to this 4th Autopsy, as you're calling it.
	In other words, where is it?
	I mean, it sounds like it might clear up a lot of things, but...
	Well, this was two years later, so he was able to...
	These were like problem reels.
	This is, I mean, one of the big claims is, how was he able to keep this footage?
	You know, this is like super top-secret stuff.
	And as I said in part one, you had the division between the Army and Air Force.
	They had a lot of things going on around that time period.
	And the cameraman always said not to mention the subject unless someone brought it up first because of the secrecy level.
	So he had these problem reels because these Filmo cameras had certain trouble with problem with the sprocket.
	And so he apparently was...
	He was able to keep hold of this footage and by all accounts he had many of these three minute reels and he literally had Dozens.
	Okay, but I still...
	You're not answering, Mike, where is this film right this minute?
	Well, that's the whole crux of the matter, isn't it, Kerry?
	I mean, this is why it went into a quiet period from 1995 to 2005.
	So basically, the problem being was that there was some sort of authentication by this gentleman called Bob Schell...
	With the first few seconds of the footage into the autopsy room.
	Now, of course, the problem is that people want the authenticated piece of image to actually show the being on it.
	We're not interested in a piece of footage leading into the room.
	That's a fair point.
	But as I will say, I'm of the opinion that this footage, when the authorities realised that they had an issue with it, it was either confiscated or Even stolen back off of Ray.
	Because, like I say, in the first part, there was accounts of his premises being broken into, their cars being broken into.
	And that's not just Ray saying that.
	That's even one of the guys who was involved in the so-called scam, you know, tent footage, which was made as a sort of joke.
	So even he was saying that, yeah, their office is, well, you know, if this is all a hoax, why are people trying to...
	They obviously realized that they had an issue.
	So, let me get this straight.
	This footage you're talking about was shown in an auditorium, publicly.
	The fourth one.
	Yeah, I'm talking about the fourth one.
	Yeah, yeah.
	Okay.
	So, there's a fourth autopsy done, like, two years after the first one, or whatever it is.
	And...
	This fourth one, which...
	Who did they say filmed that?
	Is it still the same camera guy?
	The same cameraman, but it wasn't from the original lab.
	The ones he managed to get hold of, the film reels he managed to keep was the ones that were filmed at the Dallas Fort Worth lab in 1947.
	Okay, so did this footage disappear?
	In other words, it's not around...
	Ray Santilli doesn't have it.
	No one has it, but that perhaps was confiscated after the showing?
	That's my personal opinion.
	Ray will say that he has got some, but he's not revealing it.
	And someone else will say that it's a total hoax.
	So you've got like three claims.
	Right, okay.
	But I'm just wondering, regardless of whether it's real or hoaxed or any of that stuff...
	This particular footage, this fourth alien autopsy, was an autopsy that people got to see it.
	It was the same feature.
	It was the fourth one that survived, but he never claimed that he kept that footage.
	The only footage he claimed that he kept was the second and third ones.
	The fourth one, he just mentions the fact that he was invited back to actually, because he did the original two and three, he was invited back.
	He walked to Washington to film it, and he never claims that he ever managed to keep that footage.
	Okay, but again, can we back up?
	What auditorium this was shown in, and who saw it?
	Well, he just said it was in the presence of scientists from various states in America.
	Oh, so we don't have any testimony on that?
	Only from the cameraman.
	That's it.
	This is purely from his statement.
	Oh, okay, okay.
	He personally did three autopsies of his crash.
	Who did the first one and where that was done?
	It's not clear whether that was done on the site.
	I'm not sure was that being died at the site, so it may have been somewhere else.
	It's not quite clear who did the first autopsy.
	So, yeah, that's that.
	And then we've got some other bits, pieces you may have seen.
	There's a very good book, actually.
	I should just do a plug here.
	Because if you're interested in investigating, you may know that Philip Mantis was a researcher that's done some good work on the alien autopsy subject over the years.
	I certainly don't agree with his current views on the subject, but before he was around, well he was around at the time, but Michael Hessman, who you may remember as being A famous German UFO researcher in the early 90s.
	He's not a UFO researcher now, but he is in my group, and he wrote this excellent book.
	Originally it came out in Germany, and it was just his work, and then later on it was an international version, and Philip helped out, so that's why Philip's name is also underneath there.
	You can get this book for literally a couple of dollars online.
	I'm not just saying this to plug the book, but for me, it doesn't just cover, obviously, the Roswell.
	It actually covers the Alien Autopsy, but it's an excellent book, and I can thoroughly recommend it just for a couple of dollars getting hold of Beyond Roswell, which for me is a definitive account, and it's going to have some of the bits I'm going to talk about in the next Yeah, we're kind of taking a lot of time, but we started very late, so don't worry.
	Okay, so, but just to correct the impression out there, Philip Mantle, his point of view on the alien autopsy is that it's a fake?
	It's a total hoax.
	He backs up the guy who claims that he hoaxed it.
	He's quite sceptical.
	He doesn't even believe that a spaceship crashed at Roswell.
	He's a nice enough person.
	I've had, sadly, many disagreements with him, especially lately.
	You know, he's quite skeptical and he's more edging on the skeptical side.
	But what I can say is, you know, listen to everyone, you know, listen to what I'm saying, listen to what Philip's saying, listen to what Michael is saying.
	I just, I don't know why I think I've heard that Philip Mantle is known as a debunker.
	I mean, that's kind of his...
	I mean, he's very argumentative.
	I mean, he's very skeptical on, you know...
	I mean, he went into the subject thinking, you know, he is very pro at the beginning and he was always looking into it.
	But, yeah, since this other gentleman came along, he's totally convinced that it is all a hoax.
	But I think he was played, actually.
	They actually played Phillips, I have to say.
	When you say played, what did you have in mind that they did to him exactly?
	In fact, he was still the main investigator here in England.
	I am not aware of anyone else, apart from obviously Michael was doing that book and research.
	But as far as England goes, he was, as far as the subject goes, he was the principal investigator.
	And it's still seen as that.
	So, it's interesting.
	Does Philip Mantle, sounds like he's been in the game quite a long time.
	Yeah, a long time.
	Would he know the, and we're losing you again, wouldn't he know Kit Green, for example, would he know of Kit Green's testimony and Roger Lear's testimony?
	Doesn't he take these physicians seriously or what?
	Well, he's mentioned in the memo, he's mentioned about the email from Kit Green because his name's dropped as being able to get the beta quality footage that I referred to earlier for analysis by Kit Green.
	So I think Santilli did get this via Philip and I think Philip may have sent it on to Bigelow, Kit Green, etc, etc.
	Okay, but again, my question is, why wouldn't he believe two doctors?
	Well, I don't know.
	I mean, he validates that email himself as being genuine, but obviously he can't accept that what we see in that film could be genuine because he's totally convinced that it is all a total hoax and he won't have it.
	So he's got a closed mind, I'd say.
	Okay, but he...
	I mean, not to belabor their point, and, you know, I'm actually...
	Sorry, I'm just trying to get this right thing on the screen here, but...
	No, I'm just trying to figure out why it is that he reached this conclusion.
	Presumably, he reached that conclusion some years after...
	yeah oh yeah he'll tell his own story about that and he was invited by the guy his name was just the guy who hoaxed it was name was dropped it's kind of strange he tells a story about someone says oh you should talk to this person they dropped this name john of unfreeze who who was supposedly the model maker for the uh the alien being so he's he's an important name in the uh in the subject okay
	and does this model so-called model maker does he come forward and talk you Very rarely.
	He's literally done...
	I mean, I'm going to get on to that, so we can get into that.
	Sorry.
	Oh, all right.
	I'm jumping ahead here.
	That's okay.
	I mean, that's the way, you know, we're sort of getting to...
	We're moving on to the curse of what happened next, basically.
	Okay.
	I should just point out that I'm looking at my screen here at some of the photocopies of the film can labels, which was...
	So Ray released some, albeit photocopies, of the actual canisters, because he...
	There's photos of these canisters in his office and you can see some of these.
	I've posted it recently on my page and you can see these images which are It hasn't been proved to be fake.
	There's a seal, there's an American Eagle stamp seal on there, and on these things it says, process internally, reels, hash 31, and it says something like, June 1947, recovery, this is in handwriting, for fast, something to do with the process in two steps, it's not clear because it's in handwriting, and there's one that's also has Truman's name.
	This is one of the things that was quite controversial, that Truman's name actually appears on one of the film reels on the label itself.
	I'm just seeing if I can read that here.
	Yeah, it's sort of edge burnt away, or it's not clear, but Truman's name is mentioned on one of the film reels.
	So the claim was that President Truman was actually In the early days, Ray Santilli did say something like, there's a quote that, oh, you know, I could see Truman voicing, you know, speaking.
	Supposedly, there's been claims that, Just as that surgeon behind the window with the mask on, there was also people, some people have said that they've seen President Truman appear in that window.
	So it's intriguing that there was allegedly this piece of film that Ray went on to say that it was so badly damaged, the Truman one, that they weren't able to show these images.
	I think there may be something that was, again, confiscated and that those films may have been retrieved by special forces.
	So, it's always been a controversial thing to claim that Truman was actually at this lab in Dallas.
	I think Stanton Friedman did some stuff, but there was nothing on the record, but then, you know, why would there be?
	I mean, if you're one of these presidents visiting one of these bases, I don't think you're going to put it on the public record just in case something like this would happen.
	So, regarding the film itself, I should say, the big claim then was, was it ever authenticated?
	Now, Bob Schauer, who I'll go into, he says, he made a quote at the time, I've now physically examined a second film, a section showing the autopsy room before the body was placed on the table, but clearly consistent with the later footage.
	And this is the bit I mentioned earlier, the few seconds were on that VHS. The film on which this was shot is Sine Kodak Super XX, a film type which was discontinued in 56, 57.
	Since the edge code could be 1927, 1947 or 1967, and this film was not manufactured in 27 or 67, this clearly leaves us with the only 47 as an option.
	There's some debate, however, that it is actually connected to the so-called autopsy because, like I say, this is just the intro into the autopsy room.
	Likewise, claims of who transferred images from the original 16mm film remain shrouded in mystery.
	For many, the lack of authentication of parts of the film actually showing the creature was a sign it was all a hoax.
	But could the reels have been confiscated after the transfer?
	So at this time, the UFO subject was absolutely crazy in England and around the world.
	There was magazines.
	I don't know if you were involved in the subject in 95.
	Carrie, were you into this stuff back in 95?
	No, not in this way.
	I was aware of aliens, but I wasn't following.
	I wasn't a researcher at that time.
	Sure.
	Well, I mean, there was magazines like Encounters here in the UK, we had the UFO magazine, and in fact, the UFO magazine, they did a front page, this is quite a few years after, it was in 2002, where Philip Mantle had brought forward new eyewitness testimony, and the front page says, new eyewitness testimony reignites controversy, and there's some steals from the alien autopsy footage.
	The actual Graham Birdsell, I don't know if you're aware of who Graham Birdsell is, but he was the original UFO magazine editor, and he was quite sceptical, I should say, of the alien autopsy footage, but he died sadly before he reached 50.
	I'd say a bit suspicious of his death, but that's just a side point.
	Anyway, now, of course, the claim is that the film was transferred from Philip did an interview with a gentleman called Frank Salas of Canon Video in 2001.
	Some people argued the alien autopsy was filmed in video and not transferred from 16mm, as claimed by Santilli.
	The experts, however, said they were convinced it was shot on 16mm film One man outside of Santilli's company who claims this is true came forward to Philip Mantle in 2001.
	Frank Salis was a technician who transferred the original 16mm onto video in London.
	He said that some of the film was of pretty poor quality but other parts were not too bad at all.
	He gave Philip detailed information of how he transferred the 16mm film into both VHS and Betacam as well as the type of equipment used.
	He was in no doubt that it was indeed 16mm film of the alien autopsy, but was not prepared to guess at its age, as this was not his area of expertise.
	So, this won't be a doubtful point.
	I want to talk a little bit about this book here.
	If I can just show that, I don't know.
	I don't think you can see that.
	It's a book by Reg Presley, who I introduced earlier on.
	Okay.
	And it's called Wild Things They Don't Tell Us.
	Now, he was the man who was the lead singer in the Troggs music band.
	You may remember doing Wild Thing.
	And he was a big crop circle researcher.
	He got into crop circles in the 1990s.
	And like I say, he was quite, he was, you know, the Troggs, he was actually friends with Ray Santilli already.
	And because he was the guy who was on TV and he was the guy who Got all this information out there.
	Now, why he's so important, it was because when I was researching the subject, his book which came out in 2004, so two years before the cover story came out, basically, there's a whole interesting chapter there, and again, you can get this book quite cheaply online.
	Now, basically, what this book has insinuated, and that's something that Philip has never addressed in any of his research, It was a claim that was Ray visited by Men in Black, and I'm not necessarily talking about the famous Men in Black, but at least agents of the sort.
	So what Reg said was, in his chapter in his book, he said Reg warned Ray to make more than one copy of the footage in case he was burbled.
	Now, Ray at first laughed it off.
	This is according to what Reg Presley writes in his book.
	Now, Ray at first laughed it off, but then one day he had a call from someone claiming to work for T42, an organisation made up of, so he said, of the American and English secret services.
	Ray's office and film studio were both burgled.
	Someone was trying to get hold of the master copy, but as luck would have it, missed each time.
	After these burglaries, Ray was pestered again by this group, T42, who was contacting him every day, and he finally relented, so basically they'd heard about the footage and they wanted to see it, and obviously Ray was being quite I think he's not stupid,
	this is a very business savvy person and he was aware that what he had was a Very controversial piece of footage.
	Now, the men showed up and watched the film.
	There was one, there was two, but there was one that came, I think, in the early morning or afternoon, and he showed up and they watched the film in Ray's office intensely, watching the film, and said he would be okay if he came back later with his superior.
	And then, so what happened later on, the second officer who's more superior came to Ray's office and now strangely on their return, they now re-watched the footage again and they took it less seriously.
	And they began to run it down, and the quote from Reg Presley, given to him by Ray, said to him, of course, you realise we have received dozens of these kind of films this year alone, and if you tried to pass this off as real, you'd probably get sued, which is a funny thing to say, because I wasn't aware of any autopsy films being passed off You know, I mean, this is something that never, ever happened before, beforehand.
	And so that's an interesting thing, as if, you know, this senior officer had, you know, maybe some experience with looking at autopsy films and realised that somehow, somehow Ray had got hold of something, you know, the smoke and gun of ufology, basically, and they were poo-pooing it, basically, on his return.
	So what Ray says, sorry, what Reg says, Reg Bresley, He says, summing up in his book, his chapter in his book, he says, I believe Ray had personally seen all the footage at the time and even shown all of it to the T42 guys.
	Soon after that meeting, when the President Truman footage came to be taken out of the canister, it had become stuck together and impossible to play.
	Ray spoke about the Truman footage in too much detail for me to believe he hadn't seen it.
	I believe he was threatened with his life that day and took the Truman film out of play himself.
	So that's an interesting quote from people and from one of the guys who was intimately involved in the beginning and the fact that Philip doesn't want to trust this at all should be caused for some concern and sadly Reg isn't with us today now because he did die and I think it might have been Just interesting to bring that up, really.
	People probably aren't aware of that story.
	Right.
	So, in the book I was showing you, Beyond Roswell by Michael Hesseman, which came out in 1996, This was the main book that was based on his research and later Philip helped and added some of his own research.
	Now there has been claims that the cameraman actually knew the crash die.
	A lot of people don't know that Ray was in contact.
	He had fallen out with the cameraman for a number of years but obviously once he got the money all sorted out and brought it over in the end of 1994 Obviously, people are anxious to get an interview, but one of his provisions was that he was anonymous.
	That was his whole thing, that he didn't want to speak to anyone.
	Some people did speak to him.
	Some people spoke to him on the phone.
	I think the Channel 4 producer, he talked to him on the phone.
	I think Philip Mantle even talked to him on the phone.
	There was someone on the phone, whether you think it was a hoax, someone was on the other end of his phone.
	Of course, Ray claims to have met him and spoke to him a number of times as well.
	But he talks about a crash site, so he obviously knew where the crash site was.
	So Michael Hesselman via Ray Santilli had found out that they had been given details of where this crash site happens, because, you know, if he was there, then that's something he would know, and possibly he...
	It may be something the cameraman had thought about over the years and it had gone there himself to, I don't know, for his own reasons of nostalgia, to revisit that site.
	Now, it was claimed that this crash, as I say, happened on May 31st, 1947, in the area between Socorro and Magdalena in New Mexico, and Michael uncovered some documents which found that spoke of the reopening of a mine in the area on the 1st of June, but there was no mining that took place, and indeed two weeks later it was terminated and sold.
	So there was some suspicious activity happening in that area at the time, Where they said that, you know, this mine had reopened.
	But, you know, so that's kind of suspicious.
	Now, he also found, I believe that Bob Schell was doing some publicity on the radio and some witnesses came forward to claim to have seen a meteorite around this time period of May 31st.
	And funny enough, when Michael was looking for the papers of that time, all the local papers from the 10th of May to the 15th of June, I was strangely missing, which happens a lot, as you know, Kerry, in this subject, things to verify go missing.
	And the paper archives were also missing for Magdalena and the Library of New Mexico.
	So basically, some of these people came forward.
	There were three Laguna Indians aged around 13 or 14 in 1947 and they came forward.
	They were among a dozen children who had seen the night sky light up as if daytime in less than four seconds when a big ball of fire had glided over their heads.
	Two days later, all the children had blisters, but doctors could not determine the cause.
	There were some really strange stories that were told in the book, in that same chapter in Beyond Roswell, where, according to witnesses, a strange girl had appeared on the scene.
	Her skin was greyish and she had grey hair, which looked as if she was wearing a wig.
	She avoided all contact with grown-ups, but sought the children who had seen the ball of fire.
	Most of them kept away from her, for she was so odd that some played with her.
	Those that did became ill.
	The closer the contact, the worse the sickness.
	After about a week, the mysterious girl vanished and was never seen again.
	The girl, one of these Laguna children at the time, kept a diary and it was May 31st, 1947.
	Her daughter, she's now grown up, obviously had heard Bob Schell talking on the Art Bell show and contacted him.
	He got in touch with other witnesses.
	One of them spoke of being seven at the time and how she was playing outside.
	She was so frightened, she swallowed a quarter which she had in her mouth.
	However, she was one of the few not to have burns.
	She said the strange girl wore white clothes and the men tried to catch her, but she disappeared.
	She was small like a child and wore a white veil that hid her face, so they did not know if she was white or Indian.
	There was something eerie about her.
	She always went along the river from the east.
	And that's kind of interesting, because I have talked to some from recently about psychic, albeit I know a lot of people who poo-poo psychic information, and there were some claims that these beings themselves could actually turn invisible whether it was through some technology they had, but they could actually appear and disappear.
	So it's kind of interesting, this other story.
	Now, Paul Schell, he was part of the team in '96.
	He was unconvinced by his claims crash site saying it was too close to the town of Socorro and that there were no dry lake beds as being described.
	He got more details from Ray Saintele of the crash site.
	Okay.
	We kind of were losing your audio there a bit.
	Oh, okay.
	Sorry.
	I'm gonna just move a bit closer.
	Can you hear me okay?
	Yeah, I think that's better.
	Go ahead.
	So, basically, Bob I think Michael had one crash site, but I don't think this was the correct one, but it was near there.
	He got more details, Bob Schell, this photographic expert.
	He got more details from Ray of the crash site with the cameraman on the other line, giving more accurate directions where the crash was.
	Now, in 2002, Ed Gehrman, who's a researcher into this subject, he said he believed he had actually found the site a few miles from Hessman's original.
	The site was 45 minutes from the road.
	Burnt vegetation and a strange blue material covering the rocks was found.
	The cameraman stated, The site would be on the northeast bank of a dry lake bed and at the end of a canyon, and this was known as Noble Canyon, and this would seem to match.
	Trees also appeared to be burned 100 feet from the cliff.
	All of the heat seemed to come from the above rather than the brushed fire underneath.
	Two cliff faces were covered with peculiar-like Now, I think you actually met his brother with Bill Ryan, Kerry?
	Does that sound familiar?
	Where you...
	As far as I'm aware, he's...
	Ed Gurman, but I believe that it may have been his brother who might have taken you out to the...
	As per when I talked to Bill Ryan, and I'm not sure if that video is available, because I don't think I've ever found that, but it may be on your website, and I'm not sure if you ever published that, but...
	Okay, so maybe I'll need to look for that, because it'd be good to see that again.
	Was it a video or was it a transcript?
	Oh, it's a video, okay.
	But I think that's his brother, but Ed Gehrman's the one who seems to be the main researcher, and he's on my...
	Ah, no, I don't know.
	Do you remember the guy's name?
	Okay, well, I'll...
	Well, I'm not sure why they would have the same, so maybe I'll ask Ed himself because Bill seemed to be convinced that it was his brother.
	But anyway, so that was interesting that basically there was a crash site and it seemed to be validated around that time when the cameraman said it was.
	So that's another interesting thing that I believe validates it as being a genuine crash.
	Now in the book also, Bjorn Roswell, there's an interesting guy and I'm not sure if you've heard of this This guy called Robert Morning Sky, does that ring any bells to you, Kerry?
	You know this guy?
	Oh, you do?
	Okay, so he's kind of famous for something called the Terror Papers.
	I don't know if you're familiar with that, which came out in the...
	Yeah, which is kind of interesting, and he was...
	He was half Hopi Apache and he spoke with Indians on the reservation and they told him from which direction the disc came and where it crashed.
	There were rumours about a number of beings and a number of crashes.
	Now often the beings would survive the crash but not the crash retrieval team which is kind of sad but not really surprising you know.
	They were beings from the stars closer to God than anyone else and these soldiers shot or killed them with blows.
	The Indians were scared to talk and feared the same of them if they did.
	Robert claims there were 16 crashes between 1945 and 1960 in the USA and that 14 occurred on or near Indian reservations.
	He said Indians prefer to sleep under the open sky, hence it's strange that UFO researchers never asked them about such things, which I think is a good point.
	He also claimed the Star Elder looked like the one described by his grandfather, He says, a month after Roswell, his grandfather and five friends had rescued one from a crash and nursed it back to health.
	It spoke of a war amongst the stars, and you can read about that in his terror papers.
	And there's actually a video online.
	If you search for terror, as in T-E-R-R-A, which is basically Earth, you'll be able to see Robert's presentation about what supposedly this star being recounted to his grandfather.
	He said that man is not a natural creation, but was developed specially to serve the star beings, which is interesting when you hear stories about the Anunnaki and stuff.
	Now there's some photos in the book, which I recommend again, this book again, if you're interested in the alien autopsy, and it shows the Anasazi petroglyphs in Utah, which shows evidence of a six-toed being, and you can see the photos, which is very interesting,
	but these beings are recorded, you know, back Now, the other interesting thing that was happening in this time, of course, was the Trinity was the codename of the first detonation of a nuclear weapon conducted by the United States Army, which happened on July 16th 1945 which...
	Sure.
	Oh, that wasn't here but I'm thinking this is even older than that because it seems that...
	Maybe we're getting our wires crossed here but I was under the impression that...
	Maybe Bill was getting confused himself, but he was under the impression that he seemed to think that this person was someone else, so maybe that was totally not...
	Because I know Chuck Wade, I've met him myself, and he's not connected to this...
	Yeah, he has materials, but I think he's talking about the Roswell.
	as far as I'm aware he's no okay but it may well be him talking about that I I was always under the impression that basically he didn't ever refer to the Santilli case, whereas this crash site was the one that Ed Gehrman refers to in the book.
	So maybe that bill might have got that crossed wires, and I'm not quite sure whether...
	Oh, okay.
	Okay.
	It could be, but I think the main point is that then it's not...
	I don't think that...
	From what Bill was saying, he seemed to be implying that he'd met...
	Ed or his brother, so maybe that was just some crosswise about that, but I'll try and find out about that.
	Okay, sorry, I was just saying that the Chuck Wade was the person that we thought you, and I held some of the crash material that was real, and he went to a different site, and we took a trip out to a different site.
	Unless Chuck Wade was not the person who took us out to the site.
	Could have been a different guy.
	Because on one occasion we went out to a site.
	On another occasion we interviewed Chuck Wade.
	So, I don't know what happened to the footage of going out to the site.
	When I said to Bill, I mean, he didn't seem to know.
	I've watched all your videos pretty much since the beginning, and I don't remember seeing that.
	Right.
	Maybe, but I don't know.
	I don't know.
	Anyway.
	So, yeah, the Trinity thing was a big thing.
	It was, obviously, the first detonation of a nuclear weapon in July 16, 1945, which I guess was just a couple of days ago.
	It was part of the Manhattan Project and a test was conducted in the desert about 35 miles southeast of Supercora, New Mexico.
	So could this be a coincidence then that the cameraman himself claimed to have filmed...
	He actually claimed...
	One of the things that Ray Santilli had done was, you know, to give him believability, was he involved in other things?
	I think he filmed one of the little Henry helicopter Test flights he alludes to but he also says unusually he said he actually filmed the Manhattan Project Usually, he said he filmed it from the air.
	Now, all the footage of the Manhattan Project is actually from the ground level, but when you think about it, then it's not really a surprise that they would film it from the air.
	So, for me, that's kind of an intriguing thing that he sort of said.
	Okay, can we back up and find out, is the cameraman still alive?
	No, he would have been 82, I believe, in 95.
	So unless he's doing very well, then I'm not aware of him still being alive.
	In fact, there's been claims that he even died in 95.
	Some researchers believe that he actually did die in 95.
	I don't know about that because there was supposedly this cameraman Well, that would go a long way to substantiating what he did and what he didn't do.
	Is that online?
	Can people access that?
	Yeah, although it did take a long time for it to appear online, even though it was filmed.
	Well, I'll get into that, shall I? Yes.
	I'll get into that, so I'll just go along with the order of my slides, which I'm looking at.
	Okay, I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to ask you to kind of skip around to some really crucial stuff.
	Yeah, sure.
	I know it's so wonderful that you do all this, and like I said, I think you should write a book, but simply in the interest of time.
	Yeah, sure.
	So basically, I'm just saying that the nuclear explosion opened possibly a window into our world, or at least draw the attention of E.T., so that might be the reason why these crashes were happening.
	We know about other crashes, like 1941, Cape Girardeau.
	So moving on to the interview with the cameraman, on 19th of December, 1996, there was...
	For some reason, it was only shown in Japan on Fuji TV. They broadcast a six-minute interview, which was edited from 12 minutes, of the cameraman, supposedly filmed by his son, back in July of 1996.
	So, allegedly, the cameraman was still alive then, if you don't believe it's all a hoax.
	So, Robert Kivian, the producer of An autopsy fact of fiction provided Santilli with 24 questions to ask the cameraman.
	He came across as very nervous as he could be seen, shaking.
	He insisted in filming himself in silhouette but it went horribly wrong.
	In a somewhat glaring error the identity of the cameraman could be seen by increasing the brightness.
	So, there's some images.
	You can see it online.
	I think if you saw it's autopsy, alien autopsy cameraman, you should be able to see that video online.
	It's very sort of unprofessionally done.
	Of course, someone's been claiming it's a hoax, but this is someone that they found and they dressed him up, put a false nose on him and things like that.
	But I actually, I don't have an issue with that being the actual real cameraman as claimed.
	So the next big thing we should say, then we move on to 2006.
	So this is when the story changed, Kerry.
	Well, let me ask you a question about this.
	So Santilli met with this cameraman.
	Supposedly the cameraman gave him the footage, as the story goes.
	And then the cameraman disappears from view until we see there's this interview.
	And the interview was filmed by who?
	His son, his son filmed it.
	Is his son still alive?
	Well, I would imagine so, but you have to say that the lids closed on this, you know, Why?
	Well, because of the nature of the controversy of it.
	I mean, he never wanted to be known.
	I mean, this film footage of the Cameron interview, you can read transcripts of it if you can't find it.
	He's asked 12 questions, I believe.
	Okay, but what I'm saying is that you see, it's very interesting that Ray would have gotten this film and then the guy who gave it to him Like, would they never have thought of filming an interview with the guy?
	You know what I mean?
	Because he knew he was going to go public with the footage at some point.
	In other words, it's possible that Ray actually filmed the cameraman as well.
	I think that was the whole provision.
	That was the only crux.
	When he saw the footage, the one thing he didn't want was his name to be revealed.
	I mean, he did relent.
	What was his reason?
	I guess he felt in some ways, if you just watched a cameraman video, he says he felt like he'd betrayed his country.
	He felt in some ways guilty of, I don't know, shame.
	Shame that he needed the money to make this, you know, a humble person.
	Maybe he was scared.
	Maybe he, you know, I don't think...
	Okay, but the son, wouldn't the son be really fascinating to interview if has no one tried to find the son?
	I'm sure he would, but I mean, would he be allowed to?
	I mean, you know, it depends if you believe that it was covered up, which I... Well, okay, we know the name of the cameraman, though, don't we?
	Well, there's some controversy over that even.
	Some people say Jack Barnett and things like this.
	There's been names put out there and it's not 100% clear whether that name did leak or whether it was accurate.
	Some people say they've There was a cameraman under that name and he died, you know, I don't know, even in the 60s or whatever.
	It may have been an alias.
	He might have just used that as a sort of cover name.
	Okay, but if the guy had a son...
	I'm just saying, as a mystery, if a person exists who knows the real story and who was the son of...
	Fast forward to now, they must be...
	Assuming they're human out here and being alive...
	Then they would be able to come forward.
	Why do you think, I mean, one would have to suppose that the cameraman, I don't know, he didn't sign, well, he must have signed a non-disclosure agreement when he filmed the footage, but somehow he relented and gave it to Ray.
	I mean, the whole thing is so convoluted.
	I know, I know, it's complicated.
	But I'm just thinking by that stage that he probably, if you believe it's real, that the authorities had found out who he was and, you know, I don't think they'd be...
	If Ray can't even talk about it, I don't think they're going to have his...
	They're not going to allow his son to talk freely about something his father may have done.
	I just think that it would just be totally...
	Well, sometimes they do allow a son or daughter to come forward, you know, this is kind of notorious, and Roswell people, people that saw the Roswell thing, you know, have come, their sons and daughters, there's a whole book about the children of Roswell, I think it's called.
	Yeah, I've read that, yeah, very good.
	Yeah, I interviewed the guy.
	Very good, yeah.
	And I met Don a few times.
	So, I mean, it's not completely out of the question.
	I think what makes this such a hot potato and such a hot one is the footage itself and the idea that if that puts it at a level that no other UFO story in history has had where you have the footage of a crash retrieval and an autopsy, that's just too much.
	That would not be...
	Okay, you're saying for the people that have to see physical evidence that we are not alone on the planet and that there are aliens, this is it.
	This would cinch the deal and so the stakes are too high.
	Yeah, and even now, I mean, like, you know, the hassle I'm getting just for something that's supposedly a hoax, and people aren't talking to me, and, like, I'm reaching out to people, and I've contacted all the players, and people say what they want to say,
	but, you know, it's, I mean, especially this last month, things have gone crazy, you know, with, like, I'm getting threats and all sorts, and if this is all just for a hoax, and people can say, oh, you're, you know, you're sending these messages, and, Well, and why at this late date would anyone who supposedly, you know, has the footage, but I don't even understand how you can have it come out in 95 and someone in, what is it, 19...
	I mean, 2000 and what?
	Came out and said he...
	Sorry, this is what I'm talking about.
	This is my next slide.
	It's basically 2006 then.
	What happened was...
	Ray had never said anything other than, you know, the story and he was never able to validate it.
	So what happened was on April the 4th, 2006, which I believe, I'm not sure exactly what day of the week it was, but there was two things that happened on that week.
	The first was, there was, and I've got the film here, so I might as well...
	Show you this TV. Let me just come out of there.
	This thing called Aim and Investigates.
	You can watch it on YouTube.
	And that's the actual DVD you can buy.
	And it's basically a documentary which was shown on one of the Sky One, which is one of the main cable channels here in England at the time.
	And it was basically the real story of the men behind the film and how they made it.
	So basically, what happened was...
	It was now...
	The story had changed.
	The story had changed in a way that no one had ever said before.
	And what happened was...
	On the same week that this documentary came out, there was a motion picture film by Warner Brothers called...
	And I'll go back again.
	Alien...
	This came out in the same week.
	So you had a film...
	Which is Alien Autopsy and it stars these two.
	These are quite famous people in England.
	This is Anne and Dec playing Ray Santilli and Gary Shufu.
	This came out in the same week.
	You're saying that that was a fiction?
	That was a fiction?
	This was a new story, Kerry.
	This was the cover story in my interpretation.
	This is what I'm saying.
	So what happened was the story had no change.
	In the documentary, Ray now said that 95% of the footage Was a recreation with some real clips mixed in when the original film eroded.
	Now, this sounded more unbelievable in some ways than the original story.
	The idea that they are now inserted some real...
	The film had degraded, allegedly, and that Ray, in this documentary, was now saying...
	And it's also covered in the motion picture film, a similar sort of comedy-type...
	film that when they got it back to England they realised that they couldn't retrieve only a few images so what they did was they then brought on this guy called John Humphreys to make the models of the alien and recreate it and then he would film it so the new story basically was that Ray and Gary Shufield was now saying that in this documentary that it was a recreation and it wasn't It
	wasn't totally real footage, so for many people this was a step too far, and it's a very important documentary to watch because they come across as being these white boys, con men type.
	They've got these cheesy grins, so I'm saying that this is a very controlled documentary which was released with this motion picture film which backed up.
	They both supported each other.
	It's very suspicious.
	I don't know who financed this documentary and who put up this huge amount.
	I think it was five million pounds, which is no small...
	Okay, but who owns the motion picture that is, I guess you're saying a Hollywood...
	Is this a Hollywood movie?
	Yeah, this was made by QWERTY Films, but it was distributed by Warner Brothers.
	I know, but who's the filmmaker on that film?
	Filmmaker, I mean, that was...
	Like a director, a producer?
	Yeah, yeah.
	So it was...
	Obviously, they're not very famous.
	Well, I mean, but they had people like...
	I mean, as far as actors, they had people like Bill Pullman, Harry Dean Stanton, who were big, sort of big names.
	But it was quite a reasonable...
	I think it was...
	Well, the executive producer, Michael Kuhn...
	Will Davis was the producer...
	Written by Will Davis and it was directed, I believe, by Johnny Campbell.
	Okay.
	So, but that came out, you're saying that came out at the same time as the documentary.
	As a documentary.
	As a documentary, Eamon Investigates, which you can watch on YouTube.
	And who made the documentary?
	Well, the documentary, again, some sort of This was supposedly...
	We were showing on British Sky, broadcasting, but quite who supposedly was behind it, it's still a bit of a mystery.
	I can't believe some people would say, oh, you know, it's because Ray came forward with this new information and all this stuff.
	But the documentary contains an interview where Ray changes his story.
	Is that correct?
	Yeah.
	Not only does it contain Ray and Gary, it also has interviews with people like...
	Nick Pope.
	It has an interview with the projectionist who showed it at the Museum of London in 1995.
	It has an interview with supposedly this guy behind...
	Wait a minute.
	Who showed it in a museum?
	Who showed what in a museum?
	Sorry, when we did this earlier on, there was a showing to some ufologists and The guy from the 14th Times, there was an advance showing at the Museum of London in 1995 on May the 5th.
	So they refer to that in the documentary?
	Well, they refer to that because they have nothing really that important.
	It was just a projectionist who was actually at that cinema.
	But he's in that video, and they've got people like...
	Supposedly, you know, the model maker John Humphreys.
	Okay, but I'm just starting to get to the base of this.
	So this came out in 2006, you're saying, right?
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Okay, what happened to, what year was the supposed...
	Film made by the admitted hoax film that Spyros put out.
	What year was that put out?
	Can you just say that again, Kerry?
	Sorry.
	What year was the Spyros Malaris film?
	That was filmed in a flat in Camden in April 1995.
	Okay, so is that the date when the film came out?
	No, well, the national show was August 28th, 1995.
	The video that I showed you at the beginning, I think, was released around that time.
	Yeah, but the guy who claims he hosted it, John Humphreys, say that that was filmed, not just the first of the video, the other autopsy and the debris, that was all filmed in a flat in Camden towards the end.
	And I think those dates are available, because he hasn't given those dates.
	I think they filmed it in three days, basically.
	Okay, so that film came out in 95.
	I thought the Santilli film came out in 95.
	I'm getting totally confused.
	The Santilli film did come in 95, but the magician guy, he claims that he host it.
	So it's the same...
	Ray got it allegedly in 1992 in Cleveland and then managed to get it into the country at the end of 94.
	It was then shown on Fact and Fiction in 95 but the magician and this model made a claim that it was all a hoax and it was actually filmed in a flat in Camden and it was filmed I think mid-April 1995.
	But I thought his film didn't come out for several years later.
	No, he claims about it being a hoax.
	He's saying that the original autopsy footage that we've been talking about, he's saying that is his film.
	That's why he's doing all the copyright claims.
	That Santilli footage, he's saying he filmed that in a flash.
	Well, I mean, okay, but he has a film that he sells.
	And the film he sells, is that correct?
	He doesn't, who, the magician, Mr.
	Malaris.
	Yes, yes.
	He doesn't sell his film, no.
	Oh, he doesn't?
	He just claims copyright by it, no.
	I see.
	So you can't watch his film, is that correct?
	You can watch it because, like I say, it's in the document.
	Like I say, Ray marketed it in 1995 under Orbital.
	So did they both market it in 1995 or no?
	No.
	Well, no.
	Mr.
	Malaris, he says he's just done a copyright just recently.
	So he didn't try to market it until at all?
	Even to this day?
	Well, I don't understand.
	Why wouldn't he market the film if he made it?
	Because he says, you know, this is his backstory.
	There's a whole convoluted backstory that he says that he was under an agreement with Ray that he wouldn't disclose.
	But because this motion picture film came out, he then said that he and Ray went behind his back and Ray starred in this film.
	He's actually in it and helped direct it.
	Why does the motion picture have anything to do with anything?
	Well, I mean, for me, it's the cover story.
	I mean, it's, well, he's saying that he has signed an agreement.
	He claims he worked for Ray.
	And he's saying that when this motion picture film came out, he felt, Mr.
	Malaris felt that his contract had been, you know, violated.
	And he was now free to talk about it.
	Violated by the people who shot the motion picture.
	Yeah, by Ray now making huge amounts of money, obviously, from this motion picture film.
	He felt that his contract...
	Okay, I'm sorry.
	The motion picture was not made by Ray either.
	It was made by a Hollywood filmmaker.
	Yeah, exactly.
	So how could Ray make any money off it?
	Because he was part of one of the directors, and he helped with the...
	I guess they actually appear in a brief few seconds in the film, and they would advise us So, I would imagine because he originally marketed the film, so I'm sure he was getting some profits from...
	He marketed the motion picture?
	Well, he helped market it, yeah.
	He was at the premiere in London.
	I mean, it was a story about him.
	It was a story about him and Gary.
	Okay, so someone might have paid him.
	Is that the idea?
	Hollywood paid him for his appearance in the film?
	Yeah, sure.
	Of course.
	I'm just trying to get the story straight.
	Of course, yeah.
	Apparently, it was five million pounds.
	I don't know where that...
	Oh, that's a lot of money.
	Alright, so we're kind of losing your video here.
	But, okay, I kind of want to skip over this because I don't want to have any issues.
	Yeah.
	Well, it's not actually about...
	He doesn't actually appear in this documentary.
	That's a funny thing.
	It's the model.
	It's these other guys, the model maker, and the guy who claims to be the person behind the window.
	So that's...
	Kind of interesting that his story didn't come out until 2007, so it doesn't actually cover him at all, actually.
	Obviously, there is a connection, if you believe, what he said a year later.
	But basically, John Humphreys was the guy who made...
	And he was the guy who did Max Headroom.
	I don't know if you remember.
	It was quite famous.
	I remember the Max Headroom stuff.
	Yeah, he made...
	John Humphreys was responsible for that.
	Okay, so I don't...
	Just out of curiosity...
	Why has this John Humphreys model maker...
	Oh, well, we don't know, but I guess...
	He's a sculptor.
	Why has he stayed so silent?
	Well, this is a very good question, actually, Kerry, and one of the reasons I sort of want to know, because I think I did an interview on Portuguese, some Portuguese...
	Literally, that was the only interview I've heard him on.
	That was about a year ago with some Portuguese...
	Radio blog show.
	You can find it online.
	But other than this 2006 documentary, yeah, not heard any word from him.
	Okay, and then what, but in his recent interview, if you had it translated, what does he say?
	Does he, whose story does he support?
	Well, this is another part of this sort of convoluted story.
	So the magician, Mr.
	Malaris, says that he was working for him I'm interested in what Humphreys said on this interview.
	Does Humphreys agree?
	So basically, he claims that it was a recreation issue.
	So that's the difference between him and what Mr Malaris said.
	So Mr Malaris is saying it's a hoax, and in this documentary John is saying exactly what Ray and Gary are saying, that it was a recreation, that there was some original footage and that he recreated it.
	So there's this supposed story where there's a conflict where, you know, you've got John Humphreys, Ray and Gary saying it was a recreation, and Mr Malaris a year later saying, no, it was all a hoax.
	Mr Marais implies that the reason John doesn't want to do interviews is because he's loyal still to Ray, he's loyal to Ray in talking about, not talking about it.
	I see.
	And that Ray may have given him some money or something.
	But for me, this is all a cover story.
	John had absolutely nothing to do with making those beings.
	And in fact, if you look at the film, it was a poor recreation when you compare it with...
	I mean, I know it was a more cartoony, but they would have had a bigger budget.
	And it doesn't make sense that he...
	There's lots of...
	Things that just don't add up.
	The thing with artistic people is they're not very good liars.
	John, when you watch that documentary, he doesn't look comfortable at all.
	I mean, neither does Ray and any of the others, but maybe that's intentional because they want to imply that they're all pulling people along.
	They want to sow...
	Okay, this documentary, again, what year was this documentary made?
	So it's 2006, April, the same...
	1995, we have them coming out with these films, or whatever.
	And then we jump to 2006, when there's an effort to...
	Hollywood makes a fictional version, and this other person, whoever it is, makes a documentary version.
	And they're both talking, coincidentally, about the alien autopsy.
	Yeah, I mean, the documentary is, you know, it was like part of the same thing, basically, that, you know, it was just advertising the claim that it was all a recreation.
	and so the same story portrayed in the documentary is what you see in the motion picture film that the two parts of the same sort of beast if you will but for me it's a psyop it's a disinformation story right well it's a little like when they came forward and and tried to re release this idea of a roswell balloon which wasn't that long ago which was extremely laughable.
	Yeah, these dummies.
	And pathetic.
	But nonetheless, they did it.
	And so you just wonder what goes through these people's minds.
	But nonetheless.
	It's also the same thing that happened to the crop circles, Kerry, in 1992.
	Was it when they had the men who conned the world?
	I don't know if there was a famous...
	Two old English farmers who supposedly, you know, it was blazoned all over the mainstream media as, you know, we calmed the world because there was an interest in crop circles.
	And that's how they said, well, you know, we hoaxed it.
	So all you need is someone to say either a confession, like a false confession, you know, ban them a few quid or whatever.
	And, you know, the story changed.
	But if you watch If you watch the original interviews with Ray, he's very sincere and there's lots of footage and you'd have to be a good liar, you'd have to be You know, I'm not buying it.
	I don't think Ray's...
	I think he has had to change his story.
	But if you watch those original, there's a half-hour video of him available.
	And, you know, he's sincere.
	Well, somehow it's a bit strange.
	I don't...
	I mean, I'd have to go to Rich Dolan's website to see if he's now released the transcript that he said he was going to release.
	Thank you.
	So hopefully I can get maybe an update on that.
	That would be nice.
	But he will put it on his website so we can also get it there, assuming there will be such a thing.
	And it is interesting that, again, he's changing his story now at this late juncture.
	I still have a question as to whether the being is actually fully human, fully biological, I guess you'd call it.
	As opposed to possibly an android of some kind.
	But Roger Lear seems to, in his testimony, sort of substantiates the idea that it is a biological entity.
	You know, it bleeds, it has all these different kind of components that seem to make it other than an android.
	But it is a very interesting idea.
	So, now I have to ask you to kind of leap ahead, and we're losing you again.
	So, if we could keep you on the screen, it would be hugely wonderful.
	So, but what I'm asking is, do you have...
	Does this actually go on?
	Do you have more stuff?
	Well, I'm just going to...
	I mean, not too much, really.
	It's kind of...
	What I would say is...
	Just a couple, a minute or so on that documentary, there was a few clips on there, like someone at a meat market, they showed, you know, this is where the guy got all the organs for the body, and there was a scene where Ray opens the boot of his car, and you can see the debris footage in the boot of his car, which is almost comical, or at least the mould, so we see the debris footage, there's a couple of film canisters.
	It's such a staged photo, but it's sort of more staged than the Raimi, You know, weather balloon photos.
	So I sort of draw parallels with the rainy photo on this documentary.
	It's just hilarious that they, you know, they clearly want to imply that this is some shifty, you know, Businessmen, they scan the world and you get a two-second look of these props in the back of his car, which are supposedly the debris footage and a mould of the hand panel.
	But it's interesting that they haven't totally recreated the debris hand panel because it's clearly a mould, so obviously they aren't quite good at hoaxing, you know, recreating that.
	Okay, what about this idea?
	I'm just going to cut to the chase a bit here, and I know you might have a bit more, but I do have to ask you this, because this is my burning question.
	It has to do with the fact that, back in the day, Stanley Kubrick also...
	Went and filmed the moon landing with Apollo and faked that.
	That's the evidence that has come to the fore.
	It seems quite compelling.
	But at the same time, what some people don't understand the nuance is that we actually did go to the moon, albeit not necessarily that way, not with Apollo, but with help, according to my witnesses.
	Yeah, I agree, I agree.
	And so, no, I'm just trying to say how this is very interesting, because I'm not sure, I guess this was all done in the 60s, but what we're talking about is another Englishman being recruited...
	To supposedly get involved in filming or claiming or, you know what I'm saying.
	So there's a precedent to this kind of a cover-up.
	In other words, of having the real thing go on, then creating a fake or supposedly creating a fake, however you want to look at that, and marketing that to the public so that the public...
	conflicting stories and that keeps you in la-la land where you can never never come to any real conclusion I'm just saying there's precedent it's evident there's precedent and so on and so this happening all the time I mean how can anyone ignore the fact that this seems to be a pattern of behavior by the
	The powers that be, those who wish to keep these things secret.
	So just wanted to say that.
	So please try to draw this to a close as best you can.
	And I want to thank you so much for that and for all this wonderful research that you've done.
	No worries.
	I mean, I guess one thing I haven't mentioned is Robert Schell.
	He was the guy I've been dropping his name throughout the whole thing.
	And he was a photography expert.
	And what a lot of people don't know...
	is that he is serving 32 years in prison for manslaughter.
	There's a photo I'm looking at here with Stanton Friedman, Bob Schell and Philip Mantle.
	I just wanted to mention it because it is important and it is kind of suspicious why this man He was born in 1946.
	He was trained in zoology.
	He was a technical consultant for the FBI, the CIA. He was intelligence agencies.
	He offered to help Ray in 1995 because he was not going to the right people at Kodak.
	He had a 19-year-old model girlfriend who died of a morphine overdose on June 3, 2003.
	During a bondage-themed photographic session.
	Now, she was a self-confessed drug addict, but his trial was delayed for four years.
	He was plagued by allegations of police and prosecution misconduct.
	Bob wasn't there when her body was found.
	There were claims he even had sex with her dead body.
	Shell was convicted of an involuntary manslaughter and seven other drug and sex offenses, and at the age of 60, Shell was sentenced to 32 and a half years imprisonment, and all his appeals have failed since.
	So I believe that Bob was targeted for giving credibility to the alien autopsy.
	He made some claims that an engineer from the U.S. Air Force had told him that he had worked on the alien boxes in 1968.
	He said that we found out how they record information but not how it can be read back.
	In April 1996, Bob also contacted the U.S. Air Force following an inquiry by President Clinton's scientific advisor, John Gibbons, The United States Air Force captain told Cheryl that they had located footage from the same stock in their archives and verified that at least part of this Antilly material is genuine and shows no dummy and no human.
	They knew the Cameron's name, Jack I asked Shell to forward an address since the military records building in St.
	Louis had had a fire and many records have been lost.
	Okay, so can I just slow you down?
	So this guy is a photographer, right?
	Yeah, Bob Shell.
	Bob Shell.
	I understand.
	But what is his claim to fame in terms of the alien autopsy?
	What exactly did he claim?
	He was the guy who verified about the opening footage on that three or four seconds on the original...
	Why is he in a position to know?
	Because, like I say, he actually worked.
	He was, I mean, if you look him up, he's quite well known in the photography industry.
	And he also had intelligence connections, like I say, with the FBI, the CIA. Right.
	Okay, so did he make a public statement back in those days?
	Yeah, he was on TV. I think he featured in some of the documentaries at that time.
	He was on the Italian or the French TV live show there.
	So he writes a whole chapter, I think, in Beyond Roswell, the book as well.
	How do you spell his last name?
	Shell, as in like a seashell, so S-H-E-L-L. And if you go on the website, there's a web page about his whole incarceration story and why It's a whole other story,
	but once again we see in this subject someone who's been framed for, which was a woman, albeit a young girlfriend, who took a drug overdose, and he's been sentenced to 32 and a half years.
	I just found out recently that he has been writing a book in prison, and that's his book, Bob Shell.
	Do you know the subject of that book?
	He says on the back, Renowned photographer, author, artist, editor, and blogger, Bob Schell was originally a biologist and has kept himself up to date on the newest developments in the field.
	In this book, he puts his scientist-biologist hat back on to write about the new physics, latest evolutionary theories, and the nature of consciousness itself.
	We've briefed side trips into religion and the government latest revelation about UFOs.
	The book is a collection of essays written over 12, the last 12 years, none of which has been published before.
	Longtime fans of Bob's work will find much to like here, and those unfamiliar with Bob's work will discover his unique voice.
	He observes as a universe for his own special ends.
	And there's a chapter about his involvement with the alien autopsy, but if you also Google him, he has his own website which deals with his Okay, yeah, I found bobshelltruth.com.
	Yeah, I think that's his website.
	So, once again, you know, this is something very strange where someone who seems to have given validation to the subject seems to have been paid back in a way.
	People say I'm a crazy conspiracy theorist.
	I don't really care.
	You can say what you like, but there's something very suspicious about what happened to Bob and, you know...
	It's kind of...
	People can look into that.
	So, I do believe he was...
	Okay, but he was framed for murder, I guess, you're saying?
	Well, I mean, I think the official one is that he was trying for...
	I mean, there was police corruption.
	It took four years before...
	The trial was delayed for four years, believe it or not.
	I mean, there was corruption there.
	There was...
	Basically, there was claims that he had sex with her dead body.
	This was his young girlfriend.
	I guess they filmed erotic photos, whatever.
	So, I don't know.
	It's very suspicious.
	If you look into his case on that website, you'll find all the details.
	But it just seems strange that someone who was such a prominent person Again, Philip doesn't mention any of this in his book, which is kind of strange because he mentions Bob Shau.
	You'd think that would be relevant.
	I'm suspicious.
	You can call me a conspiracy theorist.
	I think that's a bit of a payback for Bob because he also had that credibility with the FBI and the CIA. So I think he was paid back there.
	And it was probably a warning for other people.
	Maybe, Kerry, that's the reason why people aren't speaking out now because They might have said, well, what happened to Bob Schell?
	Do you want to do 32 years?
	Ray at the time, his son was seven years old in 1995.
	If you had young children then, you were threatened.
	I'm not saying that's what did happen, but I do suspect things like that were going on.
	When you have young children, People want to live.
	People don't want to die.
	There's a lot of dark things going on in this world.
	It's all being brought to light.
	So he's in prison in the UK? No, the US. He's a US citizen.
	I'm not exactly sure of the prison, but I'm sure of the details.
	You can actually write to Bob.
	I'm sure he'd be grateful for correspondence.
	So you can look up Bob's show and find out more about his story.
	Okay, because I'm just looking on his website.
	He does not claim anything about the alien autopsy on this website so far.
	No, that's fair.
	I mean, that's just something he did.
	I'm making the connection because that's the only way I ever found out about Bob.
	You can find...
	And Art Bell, I think he did a two-hour Art Bell show around the time of the alien autopsy.
	I'm not sure whether that might be online.
	I watched it online.
	It's a very good interview.
	And like I say, it was as a result of his work with Michael Hessman that they got these witnesses to the year May 31st, you know, these witnesses.
	And was it the Art Bell interview that they became aware of the photographer or not?
	Well, they became aware of his validation of supposedly the year, but I don't think he ever met the cameraman, if that's what you mean.
	He might have...
	I don't think he...
	He might have talked to him on the phone, but he was very much involved in the research, so that's the point I want to make.
	He's quite a big name at the time.
	Gave a little credibility to it, basically.
	Very, very interesting.
	All right.
	So...
	So, like I say, this is probably quite long enough, so I need to wrap this up now.
	So, maybe we can have you back in the future with an update.
	Yeah, I mean...
	I don't know if I can just say one more thing I think is really important.
	Yes.
	And that is the fact that some other people have actually validated seeing similar footage.
	Linda Morton Howell did an interview with a guy called Cooper or Stein.
	It's on her Earth Files website.
	And he claims this gentleman who you may remember from the Richard Dolan did an interview with this old gentleman who was...
	The CIA guy who was about to die, that one?
	Yeah, exactly.
	Yeah, yeah.
	That's the same guy.
	Yeah, I have that on my site as well, but yes.
	So basically, if you go on the Earth Files, and I've reposted this all on my Facebook group, all the 20-part interview with him, and he validates that he said he saw, he viewed the Santilli, albeit from the other reels of film.
	He saw this in 1957, and it was sent from Fort Belvoir.
	Also Clifford Stone says he saw something very similar in 1969 when he snuck off with another officer and they viewed officers being shown UFO films and autopsies in a theatre through a window in an auditorium.
	And Master Sergeant Bob Allen was shown film for two and a half hours at a top secret site near Tonopah, Nevada in 86.
	He said, I saw three autopsies.
	During one, President Truman stood behind the glass in the screen in the autopsy room.
	He wore surgeon's face mask.
	After a few days, the first one died, then the second.
	They were determined to keep the fourth one alive.
	It lives another two years.
	So that kind of validates whether you just think this person was just validating the story we knew, but that's someone that was a Master Sergeant called Bob Allen.
	And there was also a Japanese researcher of the National Center for Biotechnology in Taipei.
	They claim they both had seen, there's two of them, both had seen it before, after viewing the footage at St Billy's office with Colin Andrews.
	One of them said when his government requested UFO information for the US government sent by CIA's courier to Tokyo, and the other gentleman said he saw it when he visited CIA's headquarters in Langley, Virginia.
	And the last one I should say, which is a really famous one, You can watch the video clip, and it was a famous photographer in England called Mike Maloney, and Robert Kibia actually filmed this interview for what was going to be a follow-up to the alien autopsy saga in 2006, but it was never actually shown.
	But you can watch this clip with Mike Maloney, OBE. He's one of Britain's most decorated press photographers and he claims for a meeting with some of the original Walt Disney animators in 1978 he was invited to view some flying saucer films but he was also shown similar footage to the alien autopsy and I mean, I can even show you that video.
	I don't know if I can get into trouble because it's his video, but I don't know if you want me to show that here.
	No, just sorry.
	I would love that to happen, but I think we have to be too careful with this.
	Well, that's pretty much sums up.
	Okay, now are any of those people still alive?
	The ones that you just mentioned?
	I would imagine there's no reason...
	I mean, these are people that, I mean, even Philip Mantle mentions in his book, so as far as I'm aware, they should be.
	Mike Maloney's alive, but he doesn't seem to...
	I mean, I think that people are trying to get hold of him to sort of...
	I've reached out to him just to...
	Because he actually, on the video, he actually claims that It's the same room.
	It's the same type of being.
	But he says there's actually one of them crawling on the floor.
	So there's actually a living one in the footage he saw.
	And I don't believe that this guy would make up such a thing.
	He's, you know, someone who saw it in 78.
	But the fact that you'd have one in the room crawling on the floor sounds pretty, you know, outrageous thing if a being's not even dead and there's someone filming.
	But, you know, the claims are that These beings were close to death, I guess, maybe, and as soon as they died, they, you know, it's fantastic, you know, it sounds unbelievable.
	Oh, absolutely.
	I mean, that's what he says on this film clip, and he's a respected person, and, you know, I don't believe he would make it up, something like that, so...
	Very, very interesting.
	Okay, so at this point...
	Yeah, so the rest of the story, sorry, it would be about the gentleman who we're not going to talk about, so...
	But one of the things, the very last thing which I'm going to say would be one of the things that for me is evidence that the guy who I referred to earlier holding the soldier holding the debrief footage,
	Now, that's one of the guy, the magician's friends, supposedly, and I said, well, if that's him, why can't show us his fingers, because these hands you see on the debris footage are very distinctive, so I said to him, I said this, I've been saying this for the last five years,
	well, if you could instantly disprove what I'm saying by just showing this guy called Greg Simmons' hands and comparing it with the hands that are on the debris footage, but, funnily enough, The magician has totally refused to do that, and he keeps saying he's got this book coming out.
	He said that in 2007, so we're nearly in 2020, so something's not quite right.
	Also, the guy in the viewing mirror doesn't match.
	The guy who I've contacted, Gareth Watson, from what you see of his face and the photos I've seen, does not match with I mean, I've been having some bushy eyebrows for me.
	I mean, that footage needs to be computer analysed and compared with a photo of that guy from 95, because when he came forward in 2006, that film was supposedly already 11 years old, and for me, it just doesn't match with that guy in that viewing window.
	So for me, yep, the whole thing's a cover-up conspiracy, and that's what I've been saying for quite a number of years now.
	Okay.
	That's pretty much the crutch other than not mentioning.
	I would say in conclusion of that, just reading on my last page of notes, you know, for some the alien autopsy is real, some it's fake.
	On the other case, there could be elements that are both truth and deception.
	Some people think it was released as a pro, maybe by a pro-disclosure group to gauge the reaction of the general public.
	I propose there must be some truth to it as such a concerted effort was put into trying to say it was a hoax without any real evidence.
	For such an amazing piece of footage, is it not strange that only one person seems to be allowed to talk about it?
	True or false, why aren't we allowed to talk to all the other people at the time?
	And even the people who are supposedly on the hoaxing team.
	A very similar tactic, as I say, was used by Doug and Dave in trying to discredit the crop circle from phenomena.
	It's easier to fool people than to convince than they have been fooled.
	Don't let anyone tell you something is true or false without first looking into it yourself.
	And that's pretty much it for me.
	Okay.
	Well, thank you.
	What you might find also on my last slide is Ray Santilli's name, if you're interested in anagrams, because I occasionally use anagrams because there's information.
	If you're interested in esoteric stuff, you'll find interesting things encoded into your name.
	And funny enough, all the letters in Ray Santilli's name, the anagram comes out as Satan-y liar, which is kind of funny.
	So, sort of implying that maybe, you know, he was...
	He presented honest information at the beginning, but for whatever reason, he was forced to change his story and give his current version of events.
	Maybe one day we'll do an interview with Ray.
	I have invited Ray and also Spyros to have interviews, but I've also invited Kit Green to come on my show, but gotten no replies so far.
	So, in other words, that's kind of the state of affairs.
	We will try to get an update from you just to talk about the Kit Green Interview that is supposed to be coming out in a transcript form and the document.
	So I'm going to be covering that as well on my own broadcast, but I think it would be useful to have you back as a guest to give me your take on it after all your years of investigation.
	So when that comes out, I know you're attending a conference where Rich Dolan is...
	And where is that conference for people that are interested?
	That's in Northern England, Manchester, and that's the exhibition centre, Boulder's Exhibition Centre, not far from the Trafford Centre, if you know Old Trafford.
	So, yeah, I'm going to be there and hopefully I'm going to be chatting with Linda and Richard.
	I've talked about it before.
	It's not new for me to discuss this subject, but it's interesting now.
	Okay, you're fading away and we've also lost your picture.
	So, yeah, not sure what's going on with your setup there.
	But at any rate, thank you so much, Colin.
	It's great to have you on the show.
	I really appreciate it.
	Are you there?
	Yeah.
	Okay.
	Yeah, yeah.
	I don't know what's...
	I don't know for some reason why, yeah.
	Okay.
	Very strange.
	Okay.
	Listen, I'm going to let you go before anything more crazy goes on.
	Thank you again for being on the show.
	Okay?
	No problem at all.
	And I think that we...
	I hope we can be free to investigate mysteries.
	Like this on YouTube without getting people trying to interfere in the future.
	You know, it's this sort of censorship, you know, which is sort of...
	I know.
	I think they're shooting themselves in the foot, really.
	It just draws more attention to them.
	Right.
	Well, supposedly they go to all this trouble to want to be owners, and yet they don't allow use of the footage, or they don't want it to become popularized in shows such as this, even though apparently it's quite old.
	All right.

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