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May 22, 2019 - Project Camelot

01:59:17

COLIN WOOLFORD ALIEN AUTOPSY PART ONE SOUND EDIT WITH LONGER AUDIO

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	Hi everyone, I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot and very happy to be here today.
	We've got a fascinating guest, Colin Wolford, and we're going to be talking about the alien autopsy, which is a very notorious story.
	And there are a lot of people out there that have very differing views on whether it's real or not.
	And I stumbled across Colin because he attended one of my Awake and Aware conferences.
	And we had a chance to talk back then.
	And I've been inviting him on my show ever since.
	And so we finally got it together to get him on the show.
	And so I'm very pleased to have him on the show.
	And I would like everyone to go to my Project Camelot.tv and look at the front page.
	Click on the Colin Wolford article there because we've got a statement from Colin.
	And also the cameraman's story, which is crucial to read if you have no background in this story.
	So it's not that long.
	It's quite short.
	You can even read it while we're introducing Colin here.
	But it's well worth it to get sort of the overview of...
	At least where Colin is coming from, I think you could say, in a certain way.
	So Colin, welcome to the show, and it's great to have you here.
	It's great to be here, Kerry.
	I really appreciate it.
	I've bumped into you so many times over the years.
	I never got around to doing this, so it's a bit of an honor for me, actually, to be here.
	Oh, very kind of you to say that.
	Okay, now we're going to just ask you to keep, you know, to talk sort of as loud as you can, I guess.
	And I am having trouble again with these sort of icon things here, and I'm not sure why.
	So if you just bear with me, I'm going to...
	Let's see if I can fake this thing out.
	It has to do with some glitchy thing that goes on with this stupid Skype.
	It's just the worst design possible.
	So they put these icons on here and they don't always disappear.
	And so then it becomes a real problem, which it is at the moment.
	So we'll just plow forward and hope that we can get this...
	I'm trying every button I can think of to get these damn things off here.
	Wow.
	Okay, so at any rate, Colin, can you talk about who you are and why you got involved in this story?
	Yeah, of course.
	I'm a UFO researcher for About 30 years now, I guess.
	I left school in 1989, so I pretty much went straight into the subject.
	I've always had an interest, even before leaving school, with the UFO subject.
	I pretty much subscribed to all the magazines in England when they came, when I got my first paid packet, like FSR, which is kind of source of reviews.
	Quest International, which became the UFO magazine, which was run by Graham Birdsell.
	Also, I subscribed to The 14 Times, which, if you don't know about, is a magazine dedicated to Strange Phenomenon.
	So I was very much very interested in all these subjects and just devoured not only those magazines, but books regarding, you know, people like Timothy Goode, And for me, I've just always had an absolute fascination with it, so much so that I pretty much spent every day in the last 30 years studying it.
	I just think it's the greatest subject.
	I'm sure you agree, Kerry, but it's so fascinating.
	It just brings you so much...
	I think wisdom and information about what's actually going on and are we alone and all that sort of stuff.
	I've been helping out with Miles over the years as well.
	If you know Miles Johnston, I've been helping in on his Facebook group, The Basis Project, Full of Miles' work.
	I also do my own page on the Alien Autopsy, which is something I was very much into at the time.
	It's not something I just suddenly got into.
	I actually bought the video When it came out, this is actually quite rare now, the autopsy footage, and it's very scientific.
	Okay, so slow down now.
	Are you saying that you cannot get that video, or like it's not available on Amazon, or what?
	It's not really.
	This was originally a VHS production that came out in 1995, and it cost £33, and it was, I mean, I don't want to ruin the story before we get into it.
	All right.
	It was, you know, a leap of faith to spend £33 on a VHS videotape which promised to be an autopsy of an alien from Roswell, which, I should say, there's nothing to do with Roswell, but we'll get into that later on.
	Okay.
	Yeah, so that's how I've always had an interest.
	It's not just the alien autopsy, I've had an interest in a whole host of other subjects related to the UFO subjects, such as films and music, and talks about metaphors and films and music, and recently I've been doing a talk about Star Wars, which is a whole other subject.
	In this talk I'm going to be discussing the alien autopsy, which for many people If you're a ufologist, it's very controversial.
	A lot of people say it was debunked, it's a hoax, but there's so much more to it.
	I think it's very important that we as an ufologist can let these really important stories of the past go because it has never been explained simply enough.
	The proof offered that it was a hoax, and what I'm going to be saying in the next hour or two is that something far more sinister went on, and that actually this was footage of an alien autopsy actually predating the famous Roosevelt crushes on May 31st, 1947.
	So, that's an opening.
	Okay.
	We're having some weird technical things go on right now.
	But I can hear you okay.
	I hope the audience is able to hear you as well.
	So, I guess it's a bit...
	Can you hear me?
	Yeah.
	I'm just putting up this picture because...
	Can you see the images at all?
	I'm just sharing...
	I don't know if you can see that, Kerry.
	Yes, yes.
	Okay, cool.
	Although we have...
	Some kind of interference here.
	Hold on a second.
	So I'll just...
	If worse comes to worse, we'll actually ask you to turn off your video so that we have at least a better audio connection.
	But go ahead and let's give it a try.
	So what we want to do is get the preliminary background about the story.
	And I see you're putting some screenshots on there.
	That's great.
	Go ahead.
	Yes, so that's just a spill from the alien autopsy there.
	And you can't talk about the alien autopsy without the person who claims that he actually found this footage, and that's this man, Ray Santilli.
	So what do we know about Ray?
	There's some details on the screen.
	I don't need to read out all of this, but he was born on the 3rd of September, 1955.
	He's of Italian descent.
	He was a British musician, record and film producer.
	He started in the media in 1978.
	He founded the Musical Broadcasting Services Limited, which records the Walt Disney Audio Library.
	In 1991, he founded the Merlin Group, who were involved with the recording hits of musical artists.
	He also marketed and produced a number of television specials.
	In 1995, he founded the Orbital Media Group, a film and television production company, which is still active today, as I'm aware, or at least it might be a different name.
	And he was also a producer for many considered one of the worst songs of all times, which is the Birdie song.
	I'm not too sure if many people in America know that song, but if you look on YouTube, you'll find something quite horrifying.
	And so the alien autopsy timeline is interesting.
	It's very controversial depending whether you consider it to be real or if you guide by what the people are saying that it was a hoax made in 1995.
	But Ray and his associate, Gary Shufa, they will visit in Cleveland, Ohio.
	This was actually during the July 4th Bank holiday, I guess, or holiday weekend in 1992.
	And they were looking for music memorabilia.
	They returned with 18 separate canisters, well, six sources, one being the cameraman.
	Now, either DJ Bill Randall or the original camera was said to have sold footage to Ray of Elvis from the Piper of Cleveland.
	Music documentary.
	It's claimed that the cameraman filmed both.
	The cameraman was there visiting his son and saw Ray's advert in the local paper requesting old movie footage, because you have to remember this was before the internet.
	Well, the internet was just kicking off around, I think, 94, 95, so this was 1992, and to do an advert, you'd have to put it in local papers.
	Cameron said he had done something else he may be interested in, the Roswell film material, and that's why, put in brackets, the confusion begins, because most people we only found out about Roswell through people like Stanton Friedman in the late 70s, and I guess we aren't too familiar with other UFO crashes, maybe things like Aztec and other incidents, but still, of course, Roswell is considered one of the big UFO crashes that most people are familiar with.
	Now, Ray flew to the cameraman's home.
	He apparently lived in Clearwater, Florida, and Ray viewed footage of the alien autopsy and possibly others.
	The mention has also been made of a crash site with cranes and a recovery team, entities screaming and holding devices, and even Truman expecting the scene or behind the viewing window.
	And we'll talk about controversy around Yeah, I'm going to let you continue.
	I'm actually trying to deal with some issues here and see if we can help the situation at all at my end in terms of sound because it's just not great.
	There's some kind of, I don't know, do you have a wire that's loose on your computer?
	Because it sounds like a loose wire.
	I've got nothing loose as far as I'm aware.
	I've got two headphones in my...
	Yeah, because something is constantly...
	I'm not touching anything at my end, and I see that it's constantly sounding like if you have your arms resting near your computer or...
	I actually don't know.
	You know, I can't...
	It's just the less you can maybe fiddle with whatever that is going on in the background.
	I don't know if you're on the table that's moving or what's going on.
	But anyway, please do continue.
	So I think just to be maybe more specific, you're talking about Ray Santilli, who was, I believe, a producer at the time, right?
	Yeah.
	Yeah, he dipped out in music memorabilia and old films.
	He was specifically interested in obtaining some footage of Elvis and he was made aware of that there may be people when he went to this musical.
	I think he put these adverts out in the press that he would be in Cleveland, Ohio on a certain day And that there were some people there who were going to see him, to sell him this footage of Elvis.
	I think the Pipe of Cleveland is a famous 1955 appearance of Elvis in Cleveland.
	And that actually did feature, Ray did actually bring that footage back.
	There's been some controversy whether the actual cameraman was the person who filmed that, Elvis, or whether it was maybe someone who knew that other cameraman.
	But as far as the early timeline goes, regarding the footage that he was offered, there was apparently 22 reels of 16mm film each three minutes long.
	And a scrap reel of a further ten minutes.
	Now, obviously this is very interesting, and Ray did put down a payment for footage in 1992, but it was rumoured that the cameraman wanted $100,000 for this footage.
	Volker Spielberg, this is a guy who, another sort of entrepreneur, He put up the money, allegedly, at a later date, which we can go into later.
	Ray Santilli contacted one of the main ones at the time in England, which was Philip Mantle, in the summer of 1993.
	And asked would he be interested in making a documentary.
	In later weeks he would say he has footage of a UFO crash at Rosewell.
	He wasn't even aware of what the real name of Rosewell was, he would call it Rosewell, and Autopsies of the Preachers.
	Philip, the UFO researcher, wanted to see the footage but Roy kept stalling and saying later, later, And Flip met Ray for the first time in 1994 during a Befora lecture, which is the British UFO Research Association here in England.
	Can I ask you, are you saying that the cameraman did give Ray the footage?
	Is that the story?
	No, not at that time.
	I think what I've been able to find out, and I am in contact with Ray, although I'll go into that a little bit more later, how I don't necessarily trust his current viewpoint on the story.
	But he was given, allegedly, some frames, I guess, maybe to raise the funds.
	Obviously, he wasn't given 22 film reels.
	That was only secured late 1994, so it actually took him, if you think this was July 4th, 1992, it actually took him another two and a half years to actually Ray's funds and actually things were quite tense with the cameraman via negotiations and things like that.
	I think there was a point where he was literally not talking to Ray for about a year or so, maybe even longer.
	I don't know if that was counting the money or...
	I don't know if Ray was...
	As I understand it, Ray was giving some frames to maybe Entice people to, you know, put money to raising the funds for the extra footage.
	Okay, so this whole sort of, where Ray was supposed to be coming forward, was he reluctant?
	I'm not quite understanding that part.
	Okay, so it seems like he obviously felt that this was a very highly strange film.
	Remember, he's not a ufologist or anything like that.
	He was just a music producer, but he'd obviously seen something very, very interesting, which this cameraman had shown him in his house in Florida on his own 60mm movie camera.
	And obviously, Ray being a businessman, he knew...
	He didn't know what it was, but he knew that if he could raise, supposedly, this, you know, whether it was $100,000, we may never know, but this large sum of money, then he was going to actually market it, not put it on TV as such,
	but maybe, you know, just release it straight to video and, you know, bring it out as a sort of, I guess, X-Files type You know, paranormal type video, because remember the X-Files, I think, started in about 1993 as well.
	So there was obviously a market for it, and obviously it's a very controversial piece of the film, because some people say, oh, it looked more like a human, and we can talk about that later.
	But he was certainly into wanting to market it, but it seemed like he was having some difficulties raising the funds necessary, and that's...
	I think the negotiation with the cameraman was also there was some arguments or some disagreements about certain things happening.
	But yeah, Ray did very much want to bring it out to the world, as he did, but it was actually the other people that Leap the information as such on national TV, which we'll go into in the next few slides.
	All right, so continue your story.
	Yeah, so supposedly November 94, the money was secured to buy the cameraman's footage.
	Now, January 95, Reg Presley, who we'll be talking a bit more later about, he's a He's a famous singer from the band The Trogs, who you might be aware of.
	He's sadly no longer alive, but he's a major player in the story.
	In February, March 1995, Philip remembers why, after showing the Roswell TV film.
	Now, there was a...
	Paul Davids did the Roswell Showtime film with Colin McLaughlin, 1994.
	I don't know, I think you probably know who Paul Davis is, Kerry.
	Yes, yes, I've met him.
	He's a very well-known producer and been very active in the UFO field for many, many years.
	Absolutely, and he's a bit of a magician as well.
	A good magician.
	So his film, actually, that was very, you know, it's one of the go-to films of the Roswell.
	It's really the best made Well, probably there was another Hangar 18, but this was a proper...
	I think it may not have been on the cinemas, but it was certainly quite a big deal at the time, and that was 1994.
	So basically what happened was they were trying to I think there was some publicity about Philip Mantle and the Euphora were doing for the Roswell film.
	And Philip Mantle, the UFO researcher, he drives down to Ray's office and has finally shown some film of this alien autopsy, although to confuse matters even worse, and I know I might lose people because it's such a non-convoluted story, but this was another piece of footage which was known as the tenth footage, which we'll go into.
	Now over the next couple of months he would be shown two autopsy, so we're not even talking about the most famous piece of film, but it was actually another autopsy as well, as well as this 10th footage and as well as the debut footage, which we will also go into.
	May the 5th was an important day in the timeline of the alien autopsy because it was shown at the New Zealand of London.
	This was a few months before Rob Kivriak's We're showing, and various other countries around the world, August 28, 1995, It was an advanced showing.
	Quite a few ufologists were present at the show at the Museum of London, and they had about 150 invite guests.
	Now, on August 1925, Ray allows principal investigator Philips Mantle to show it at the Sheffield before a conference.
	Ray's original plan was to sell the footage only on video, but it spiralled out of control, and I'll go into how that happened.
	August 28th was the day around the world, in fact.
	Most people showed it.
	It was massive in the news at the time, which Channel 4 here in England, they broadcast a lot of it into them with footage from the all-footy at the end.
	They were already doing a show about the secret history of various other events, and it just coincided that they had done this one on Goswell, and it coincided that they could show these bits at the Now, Kerry, I know you mentioned about this cameraman's statement.
	I don't know if you want me to just not go into that, because it might take a few, five minutes, a couple, I don't know.
	But if you want me to read out, I have got the statement here.
	No, I think it's pertinent.
	So why don't you, we can, I don't know if you've got it on your slide.
	I can put it on the slide.
	I know, I haven't put it on my slide, but I can read it.
	I've got it in front of me, so I can read it to you.
	So this was a cameraman's statement, which came out, because obviously there was...
	It wasn't just the footage.
	The cameraman did come out with names, places, dates, times, and things like that.
	So if this is a hoax, this is a very good one, and having footage that matched with 1947.
	So let me just read out.
	He called this Operation Anvil.
	This is a cameraman's statement, allegedly given to Ray.
	Okay, now this slide is blank.
	Do you have one?
	It is blank.
	I'm going to read it out, but I'll show you some pictures in the background.
	All right.
	Yeah, this is...
	And people that can follow along on my website, projecthamelot.tv, you can see the statement there below the player.
	So that's the Colin Wolford interview that we're doing.
	And it's projecthamelot.tv.
	You can go there and read as he reads.
	You can read along because it's quite a good statement.
	Go ahead.
	Yeah, okay.
	So...
	This is the cameraman.
	He says, I joined the forces in March of 1942 and left in 1952.
	The 10 years I spent serving my country were some of the best years of my life.
	My father was in the movie business, which meant he had good knowledge about the workings of cameras and photography.
	For this reason, I believe I passed the medical that would not normally allow me in due to having polio as a child.
	After my enrolment and training, I was able to use my camera skills and became one of the few dedicated cameraman in the forces.
	I was sent to many places, and as it was wartime, I fast learned the ability of filming under difficult circumstances.
	I will not give more detail on my background, only to say that in the fall of 1944, I was assigned to intelligence reporting to assistant chief of their staff.
	I was moved around depending on the assignment.
	During my time, I filmed a great deal, including the tests at White Sands, which was the Manhattan Project.
	It's known as Trinity.
	I remember very clearly receiving the call to go to White Sands, Roswell.
	I have not long returned from St.
	Louis, Missouri, where I had filmed the new ramjet, Little Henry, which was a prototype helicopter, I believe.
	It was June 1st when Mcdonald asked me to report to General McMullen for a special assignment.
	So make note of the date there, because this is June 1st, not to be confused with events in Roswell a month later.
	And you can see General McMullen on the picture there, on the left there.
	I had no experience of working with Mulan, but after talking to him for a few minutes, I knew that I would never wish to be his enemy.
	Mulan was straight to the point, no messing.
	I was ordered to a crash site just southwest of Socorro.
	It was urgent, and my grief was to film everything in sight.
	Not to leave the debris until it had been removed, and I was to have access to all areas of the site.
	If the commander in charge had a problem with that, I was told to get them to call McMullen.
	A few minutes after my order for McMullen, I received the same instructions from TUI, and you can see that gentleman on the other side, saying it was a crash or a rush in spy plane.
	Two generals in one day.
	This job was very important.
	Yeah, I flew out from Andrew to 16 other offices and personnel, mostly medical.
	We arrived at Wright-Patterson and collected more men and equipment from there.
	We flew to Roswell on a C-54.
	When we got to Roswell, we were transported by road to the site.
	When we arrived, the site had already been cordoned off.
	From the start, it was plain to see.
	This was no Russian spy plane.
	It was a large disk.
	Flying saucer on its back with the heat still radiating from the ground around it.
	The commander on site handed over to the SAC medical team who were still waiting for Kenny to arrive.
	However, nothing had been done as everyone was just waiting for orders.
	It was decided to wait until the heat subsided before moving in as far as a significant risk.
	This was made all the worse by the screams of the freak creatures that were lying by the vehicle.
	What in God's name they were, no one could tell, but one thing's for sure, they were circus freaks, creatures with no business here.
	Each had hold of a box which they kept hold of in both arms and close to their chests.
	They just lay there crying, holding those boxes.
	Once my tent had been set up, I started filming immediately.
	First the vehicle, then the sight and battery.
	At around 6am, it was deemed safe to move in.
	Again, the freaks were still crying, and when approached, they screamed even louder.
	They were protective of their boxes, but we managed to get one loose with a firm strike at the head of a freak with the butt of their rifle.
	The three freaks were dragged away and secured with rope and tape.
	The other one was already dead.
	The medical team were reluctant at first to go near these freaks, but as some were injured, they had no choice.
	Once the creature was collected, the priority was to collect all debris that could be removed easily as there was still a list of fire.
	This debris seemed to come from exterior struts that were supporting a very small disc on the underside of the graph, which must have snapped off when the disc slipped over.
	The debris was taken to ten stations for logging, then loaded onto trucks.
	After three days, a full team from Washington came down and the decision was taken to move the craft.
	Inside it, the atmosphere was very heavy.
	It was impossible to stay in longer than a few seconds without feeling very sick.
	Therefore, it was decided to analyse it back at base, so it was loaded onto a flat top and taken to Wright-Patterson, which is where I joined it.
	I stayed at Wright-Patterson for a further three weeks, working on the debris.
	I was then told to report to Fort Worth, Dallas, the filling of an emergency.
	Normally, I would not have a problem with this, but it was discovered that the streets may be a medical threat.
	Therefore, I was required to wear the same protective suits as the doctors, It was impossible to handle the camera properly.
	Loading and focusing was very difficult.
	In fact, against orders, I removed my suit during the filming.
	The first autopsies took place in July 1947.
	After filming, I had several hundred reels.
	I separated problem reels, which required special attention and processing.
	Diesel would do later.
	The first batch was sent through to Washington, and I'll process the remainder a few days later.
	Once the remaining reels had been processed, I contacted Washington to arrange collection of the farm or the batch.
	Incredibly, they never came to collect or arrange transportation for them.
	I called many times and then just gave up.
	The footage has remained with me ever since.
	In May of 1949, I was asked to film the third autopsy.
	And that was...
	The cameraman's statement.
	Obviously, it's quite controversial.
	One of the biggest things being, of course, he was actually told not to mention the footage unless some senior officer first mentioned it.
	Also, in that time, there was a division between the Army and the Air Force.
	They went in separate ways.
	There was a lot of things going on.
	I think the CIA was formed in that year, was it, 47?
	I'm adamant there was actually a lot of crash retrievals before 1914, and I'll go into that as well in a few other slides.
	I'll just have a picture here.
	On the left there's Reg Predley of the band, the Troggs, I know Busty.
	He's quite young there, that's for sure.
	Very young.
	That's circa 95, I guess.
	And Philip Mantle, again, still a new...
	Okay, correct me if I'm wrong.
	I don't know why, but I seem to remember that Philip Mantle was something of a...
	You know, he was not totally on board with this whole subject.
	He was a debunker of some sort, wasn't he?
	Well, he certainly is very much into the subject, but I would say he's certainly one of the more sceptical researchers out there.
	Okay.
	Yeah, I just wanted to make sure that my memory was correct.
	I would say he is more sceptical of UFOs and it being conspiracies and that these things did happen.
	But he's done a lot of good work, to fair to put it, over the years.
	We've had our arguments over the last few years and it might obviously come from a completely different angle.
	To what he is, because he is recognised as being one of the main researchers on this subject, and he did a book with Michael Hessman, who also takes a sort of opposite view also, to fill it more aligning with me, that he's not happy about, he doesn't think there is the evidence that there is a hoax.
	Michael Hessman isn't no longer involved in the UFO subject, but he's a member of the group still.
	But, yeah, Philip did do one of the main recent books, A Muleen Autopsy, but there was a very good one, and I recommend people watching this to check out a book called Beyond Roosevelt, which was Michael Hesseman's book.
	Okay, but is that...
	Is that sort of basically debunking the story, in other words, saying it's fake?
	No, not at all.
	I mean, Philip Mantle's one is taking more from the idea that it was a hoax.
	That's what I mean.
	That's what I thought you were talking about.
	It's not his book you're talking about?
	Yeah, so Philip Mantle was the main guy who's still involved with the alien autopsy and has sort of He now declared it a hoax.
	But when he contributed to Michael Hesman, who you may remember from the mid-90s, early 90s, was quite a famous big name in the UFO subject and was doing a lot of research and brought out this hardback book, Beyond Roswell.
	Oh, I see.
	So Hessman wrote the book you're talking about, Beyond Roswell, and you're saying, okay, so I get that.
	It's credited to having a sort of brief sort of section in that book.
	He has a main credit on the fund.
	It's kind of controversial.
	They've kind of, I think, fallen out of there.
	They certainly don't get on together.
	All right.
	It's interesting because there's these different views and we're all entitled to our own view, you know, just as I'm entitled to...
	Well, can I ask you, just, you know, have you, and you say you know, I mean, Mantle well, you're saying you know him well?
	Well, I only view...
	I mean, through this subject and asking him questions, and he did share some information with me, and he was on my Facebook alien autopsy analysis page, and sadly he's no longer on there because I had to remove him.
	I mean, we...
	You know what?
	I guess the reason I'm asking you, because, you know, some government agents are paid to...
	Basically, disinform and discredit certain stories.
	I've actually interviewed a very older man, a fascinating guy, whose job it was to basically go around and debunk and make people think things were fake.
	So it has crossed your mind that Mantle might have been employed by an agency.
	Oh, sure, sure.
	Yeah, no, no.
	I mean, people even say that about, I mean, John Lear was saying about Stan Friedman doing one.
	I mean, that's something I can't totally rule out, you know.
	Well, actually, I have to agree on that with Stanton.
	Yeah, well, I mean...
	Dealings with him.
	I was at a conference where he was speaking on stage, and I actually called him out on Dulcy.
	And he, I know for a fact, he knew full well what Dulcy was all about.
	So when you're covering up that humans, a place humans are being tortured and so-and-so experimentation going on, and he basically...
	Now, this was his job.
	I mean, so it's understandable that...
	Yeah, so yes, he contributed to the sector, no doubt.
	But it's also interesting to wonder what other things he might have been creating some disinfo.
	Sure.
	I mean, he did actually do a bit of research into, obviously, the subject, the alien autops and stuff.
	I see.
	But I mean, I think, to be fair, that could be more down to the fact that the confusion with Roswell, because, you know, we're going to get into this being with six fingers, and obviously the Roswell being was one with four fingers, according to the various testimony.
	And as I say in the cameraman's statement, this is actually referring to a crash retrieval on the last day of May, 1947.
	So, I mean, it seems like there was actually...
	I'm quite convinced there was a hell of a lot of UFO crashes going on back then and people like Ryan Wood, Bill Wood have done a good book about the various crash retrievals.
	We'll talk a little bit about things like Cape Girardeau and Aztec.
	Alright.
	Well, then please continue.
	Yeah, okay.
	So just a little bit of background on Reg, because I have met Reg a couple of times, so he's no longer a realist, but he was quite a big star.
	I mean, really, he...
	He was born in 1941 and he sadly died in 2013.
	His real original name was Reginald Morris Ball.
	So, obviously, there's another sort of Elvis-type connection there where he's decided to change his surname to Ricks of Presley.
	Obviously, they actually had a huge hit with the song Wild Thing.
	I don't know about America, but here in 1994, Reg's song Love Is All Around was covered by a Scottish group called Wet Wet Wet and that got to number one in the charts of May 1994.
	It spent an incredible 15 weeks here at number one, which is no mean feat.
	So you have to remember Reg was actually getting Some very good royalties at the back of this.
	But before even all this, Reg had suddenly had an interest in the crop circles subject back in the summer of 1990.
	I guess a lot of musicians do sort of ask the big questions and they do have an interest in not just religion but the paranormal and the big questions.
	And I think that's what happens to a lot of musicians, that they do seek out these big answers when they're on the front, you know, when they're flying to thousands of people on stage and sort of questioning existence.
	So that may be why Reg got into it, you know, why he was asking the big questions back then.
	Okay, but you weren't aware that Reg might have had his own direct experience with UFOs?
	Oh, yeah.
	Well, he's actually brought out a book.
	We'll go into that.
	It's called Reg Presley, The World of Things They Don't Tell Us.
	I think he does actually recount some interesting stories in that book.
	And I think that will be on the next page, actually.
	So let me just say that Reg's manager at that time had contacted Ray Santilli around Christmas 1994 about a Trobs reissue.
	Now, and Ray tells him if Reg would be interested in seeing film footage of an alien autopsy, because obviously Ray knew that Reg had an interest in the subject, and we were actually quite good friends.
	Now, Reg is sent the tent footage, but he's not impressed.
	And we'll be going to the tent footage, if we have time, next week.
	Ray tells him, you haven't seen the best footage yet, and as soon as I have time, I'll invite you up to see more, and he began telling him what he'd see, because just to say that, Apparently, these films of the famous autopsy that we all know about today wasn't actually transferred until around, I guess, March, April time, around 1995.
	Reg then goes on to describe the tenth footage on live TV on the Anne and Nick show.
	To 17 million viewers, he mentions Ray's name and within eight hours the news has gone around the world.
	It was not till April that Reg finally viewed the famous footage we all know.
	So, I mean, I could play you this clip.
	I don't know if it's Reg actually saying this on live TV and we can see if it works.
	Okay, I just want to get this straight.
	So, according to the timeline here, you're saying that Reg actually talked about the footage, but he hadn't actually seen it at that point?
	What he had seen was this other piece of footage, not the famous alien autopsy that was on national TV as of August 1995, but he had been shown allegedly another piece of footage that's become known as the 10th footage.
	Okay, but you're saying, so, but when he was talking, was he talking about what is called the tent footage?
	And is the tent footage of the same exact aliens and the same incident?
	Oh, no, this was a very poorly made hoax type piece of film.
	Okay, so that's, and that's been proven a hoax or...
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	In fact, Mr.
	Kvyat did a bit of documentary on one of these shows about that.
	Okay.
	But it was something, and I'll go into that in the next slide, but I don't know if you want me to just see if this will run this video, Kerry, or should I just...
	Yeah, I mean, if it'll...
	Is there a rights issue?
	Just finding out, first of all.
	I don't think so, because it's just...
	Well...
	It's in the public domain at this point.
	It's on YouTube.
	I don't know if it's on YouTube.
	All right.
	Well, I mean, worst comes to worst, I'll have to take this interview down and edit it.
	I may have to do that anyway because of the sound issues.
	But hopefully, let's go ahead and run it.
	If it'll work, let's try it.
	Okay.
	Let's see if it's...
	And I think, just to save bandwidth, you might turn your video off, you know, of your face, so that you are not conflicting with the footage that you're showing.
	So, I mean, you actually present a program on cable television, don't you?
	That's right.
	I don't know about a TV station.
	It just goes out of about 3,000 homes.
	And they say you're very passionate about it.
	Yeah, I'm well into it.
	I've been into this just to find out for myself, really, whether this is a genuine phenomenon or whether it isn't.
	And the information that's come in is absolutely fantastic.
	In fact, I've got one for UFO buffs.
	Yes.
	Do you thought that that's the Roswell happening where a crashed plane, a crashed UFO crashed in New Mexico?
	If you think that you aren't going to find out about that, I have some great information because I was speaking to Ray Santilli, who is a producer the other day, who has just got hold of some film footage of The autopsy done on the aliens.
	Hey, wait a second.
	Are you being serious?
	I'm being very serious.
	Wait a second, this happened in 1947?
	1947.
	They were over in America searching for some Elvis, old Elvis film.
	Who's they?
	Ray Santelli and his friend.
	Just us film people.
	Just us film people.
	And they were trying, this old guy, about 76 years now, and he said, if you think this Elvis Presley film's fantastic, 15 cartridges of old film and he said I thought this was so important at the time that I made myself a copy and I didn't tell anybody and I've said nothing since.
	Have you seen this?
	I've seen the film and the film has been broken off And what does it show?
	It shows an alien being worked on.
	In an autopsy.
	By humans?
	By humans.
	So you're talking about the cover-up, really.
	I'm talking about the biggest cover-up that's gone on on this planet.
	So you're saying that we humans managed to get hold of an alien and did an autopsy on him and it was filmed.
	Well, I've seen one.
	I believe there's another three.
	There's 15 reels of this.
	So it's 150 minutes of debris, the actual craft itself.
	How do you want to say an alien from what you've seen?
	Because it doesn't look like you and I.
	What does it look like?
	It is longer than we are led to believe.
	We are led to believe that they were four foot.
	The one I have seen has to be six foot or more.
	And Basti, don't you reckon that there are sort of aliens being held around the world?
	All right, I don't know if you heard that, Kerry.
	Yeah, I know.
	It's lovely.
	I think it's very good.
	Lots of fun.
	Thank you for that, yes.
	That's okay.
	But what he was describing there, he talked about a six-foot one.
	He was actually talking at that point, because that interview was January 1995, so he was made aware of the footage, but what he was talking about there was, I think, the actual 10th footage, because I don't think at that point...
	He may have had it described to him by Ray, but I think what he then saw was what became known as a tent footage, and that's quite controversial, but it has to be talked about.
	So that's a little still from it, and it was really poorly shot, and you can see this Two guys, like, there's nothing covering their faces.
	There's like a lantern hanging down, supposedly a body there.
	So how did this footage get all muddied up into it all, basically?
	The 10th footage story was something that happened in the summer of 1994, so this is way before most people would have known about anything to do with an alien autopsy coming out.
	It's kind that Rayo approaches art music to enhance some footage he has of aliens that were the full quality.
	Apparently, I think the theory being that Ray was looking as a stopgap to create a piece of footage before he secured the rights to the more famous alien autopsy.
	And he wanted some people that he knew whether they could recreate an alien autopsy and how convincing it would be with what he saw.
	Because I think maybe he, not having the knowledge of the subject, he didn't know what he was looking at and thinking, well, maybe he is being posed by some of this footage.
	We'd create an alien autopsy then that would see whether it was You know, it was comparable to the famous alien autopsy that was to be secured later.
	Okay, so just to clarify, he knew about the alien footage.
	He saw it in Ohio back in 92.
	He was in the process of securing it.
	Okay, in 92 he saw it.
	He saw it in 92.
	Okay, and in 94 he still hadn't quite gotten it.
	No, but apparently he didn't be able to secure until November of that year.
	Alright, and then what happens is he gets together some people and decides to make a fake version of what he saw.
	For God knows what reason.
	Okay, now let's, that's a very interesting thing.
	Now let me ask you, and maybe the Robert Kvyat, maybe his film is also worth, you know, people taking a look at so that we can refer them over to his, and maybe it will explain more about this.
	And is Kvyat convinced that this is, Film of whatever appears to be a real hoax, this tent footage.
	Yeah, I mean, there's no one who believes, there's not a single person I know who accepts that as being genuine.
	Okay, but just out of curiosity, Santilli, is he American?
	No, he's of Italian descent.
	But is he in America?
	I mean, you know, in other words, you can be Italian descent and be born in America or...
	No, I'm pretty sure he was born here in England.
	Oh, he's English.
	Okay.
	So could he have been working for an agency, just out of curiosity?
	No, it's not.
	It's not totally...
	I mean, one of the theories I had in the early days or...
	Well, in some way I'm still open to this, but maybe he was being used as a release of propaganda for some reason.
	To, you know, climatize people.
	Well, I mean, it has shades of the Stanley Kramer, recruiting Stanley Kramer to shoot the moon footage.
	It has some similar types of things.
	Here they are faking something that's real in anticipation that maybe they wanted to bunk it or muddy the waters.
	Yeah.
	Oh, yeah, sure.
	I mean, I've heard people on a phone, Ben, say that maybe it's an attempt to debunk other footage that was, you know, possibly going to come out or something.
	But with what happened afterwards, I can't go along with that.
	I mean, I can't totally rule it out.
	It just seems...
	Okay, well, go ahead with your story, then what happened?
	Okay.
	So this story then was that these guys at Ray's were approached by Hanson.
	They basically got a friend called Keith Bateman to make a sort of It was filmed in a barn in Bedfordshire, England, and pretends to show an emergency autopsy.
	Now, Andy Price, what 12-year-old's son, played the alien with his head covered by sheep and a dummy alien head on top, and I think he had two bits of orange peel for eyes, you know, so this wasn't like a big production by any means.
	Now, Bruce Barlow, who's quite famous for making UFO documentaries on other similar subjects, included two minutes of his footage as a bonus on their video, Reasons to Believe.
	He claims that Keith was asked by Ray to make some footage that could be used as a reconstruction of an alien autopsy for a documentary.
	Now, GMTV are interested in showing this piece of tent footage, which is like the morning Good Morning TV, which you just saw the clip of in England.
	Now, Ray, upon hearing about this, flies back from holiday to angrily confront Keith and Andy and offers them £5,000 not to go ahead as it will release his proper release of the alien autopsy footage.
	They eventually agree.
	So what turned out to be a bit of a prank or, you know, a bit of an amateur effort somehow had been muddied into the whole alien autopsy fiasco.
	Now, Ray would later sell the footage back to a fiction people to Keith's anger, and that's Robert Kvyat's group.
	Now, Ray denies paying for the footage to be made and put a load of rubbish, and you can actually watch this, I believe, on Robert Kvyat.
	It was probably one of these It's very poor quality and basically it is, as that picture shows, very poor quality of people without masks in a farm, looking over some creature, pulling out insides of it and stuff like that.
	Was Ray using the tenth footage of a stopgap until his footage arrived, which is what I believe, or was it even an attempt to money the waters early on?
	I think there was a bit of deception going on here.
	Pete Bateman, who was working on this project with him, He says, when the footage was released, we suspected our phones were being...
	I think he's talking about not just the temp footage, he was actually the phones of the alien watchboxes as well, because he was friends with Ray.
	He says, when the footage was released, we suspected our phones were being tapped, and there was a night I was called to the alarm system at AK Music where it appeared, nothing had been touched, but we later realised files had been disturbed and tapes moved.
	Also, Santilli had told me that he had been asked quite a few questions from certain authorities.
	And okay, I shouldn't say, but I think it was just Keith Bateman that was the guy working on the 10th footage.
	So it seems like the authorities had an interest in him supposedly making this fake piece of footage.
	It's as interesting as if they were after something.
	Okay, but let me ask you.
	According to your prior slide, I thought you said that Ray Santilli eventually sold this particular tent footage.
	So how did he get to own it if he didn't even approve of it?
	Well, I think he was more worried that he had paid money for it to be recreated, but Keith and Andy, they were going to show it to GMTV. So he'd maybe given them money to actually make this, just to see whether they could recreate it.
	Recreate what he had seen in that footage in 92.
	Well, it says Ray denies paying for the footage to be made.
	That's after the fact, I guess.
	Well, this is one of the controversials.
	There is some sort of various claims and counterclaims about who was saying, who was doing what.
	Okay, now is Ray Santilli still alive?
	Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
	He's definitely much alive.
	I emailed him just before the conference in Loughlin because I was going to do something there, but I've had to postpone that.
	But we can talk about Ray and my correspondence with him later, or if you want to ask a question.
	No, go ahead.
	Continue your story.
	We'll get back to that.
	I just was curious.
	Okay.
	Yeah, that's cool, yeah.
	I mean, so this was basically, it is kind of confusing the whole 10th footage, but this was supposedly Santilli's statement as of 98, so a few years after it all, and he says, the 10th footage was the first film material I collected from the cameraman, supposedly.
	It was in the form of 60mm film and in a very tall condition.
	I brought it back to England and asked the studio facility in Buckinghamshire to retrieve whatever image they could from it.
	A few weeks after delivery, the studio presented me with a film which has become known as the 10th footage.
	I was told that this was all that could be retrieved from the film.
	I had informed the cameraman by telephone that we were able to retrieve some images and indeed show the film to Philip Mountain or another interested parties.
	I returned to the States later to collect the main film and show the tenth footage and VHS to the cameraman.
	At this point he stated that he did not remember either this image being portrayed or the style in which it had been filmed.
	This is the tenth footage we're talking about.
	I was concerned but collected the remaining film which was in far better condition and returned to the UK. Okay, I'm sorry to stop you here, but this does not make sense.
	So, in the prior slide, you're telling us that a bunch of people got together from the same company, the music company.
	To create a fake situation.
	Then they filmed it.
	Then Ray denies paying for them to film it and to create it.
	But then somehow later he actually sells it.
	So somehow he's involved.
	And now you're telling me in 1998 that he's acting as if it's real.
	Well, this is the interesting thing, because just to say that last paragraph, it says, What was real and what was not.
	And if the film had been interfered with, I could not use it.
	This is why I completely fall back from using the film.
	I think he told Robert Kvyat that he couldn't show that in any of these follow-up documentaries.
	Now, what I think actually happened was, during the process of the actual famous alien autopsy footage, the images retrieved from that was interfered with And that this footage was actually...
	He was under the impression that this actually came from the film canisters that he'd brought back from the degenerate cameraman that he saw in 1992.
	So when these images were retrieved, he then actually even...
	He showed the video of them to the cameraman because obviously I don't think Wayne had actually seen all 15 canisters of film.
	I actually think that he'd maybe only seen maybe, I don't know, 20 minutes of film or so.
	So he wasn't aware of everything that was on.
	So if the film company who was transferring the images for him to view, he was only going by their word that this footage actually came from the canisters.
	So I think there were some sneaky black ops type shenanigans going on there, where they actually had interfered with this poked footage.
	It led Ray to believe that it had actually come from the actual original Ian Autopsy footage.
	Okay, that is a real, that is just the strangest combination of stuff.
	Yeah, I know.
	I mean, this is what a lot of the people saw in the early days, like Reg Bresley.
	So it's really a mixture of this backyard shenanigans and some of the actual footage merged together in some sick way.
	I think it was an early attempt that certain agencies to put this info out there and make ratings Wasn't sure what was actually on certain canisters and what he was told the images had been retrieved.
	So I think there was...
	So either he's completely innocent and deceived and one of these other people got hired by the agency or the reverse is possibly true.
	Okay, very interesting situation.
	What year did Kubrick shoot his fake moon footage?
	Do you remember?
	Would it be like...
	Was that the 60s or...
	The moon landing was in 69, so was it 68?
	So this is quite a bit further on.
	So they're well familiar with a process of what do you do when you've got a situation where something is real?
	How do you debunk it?
	How do you successfully confuse the waters?
	Exactly.
	That's interesting.
	The important question for me, Kerry, is at what point did the authorities realise that they had one of the biggest nightmares on their hands that you could ever perceive?
	And that's quite an interesting point in itself.
	I mean, I've sort of narrowed it down to a certain month, I think.
	Can it be any more confusing to have a guy named Volker Spielberg involved in this whole situation?
	Exactly.
	I mean, this is another thing.
	This is another aspect of this story where it gets...
	Oh, God.
	All right.
	So, actually, this is a guy who, very interesting, because on YouTube, there's an actually, well, basically, he was, I need to see if this next slide says, okay.
	He was basically, again, involved in the music industry, and he had ties with Santilli, and he obviously had a bit of money.
	I think he lived in, I can't remember if it was Germany, I think years of German discernment.
	Oh, right.
	Isn't that perfect?
	Okay, fascinating.
	All right.
	And what happened was, like, for one of the big documentaries around August 28th, I think the French TV channel He was the guy who put up the money, basically, if you believe that he put up the majority of the money for these three pieces of footage.
	That is two alien autopsies, end-of-day brief footage.
	I should say all the other canisters as well.
	I think he put all that money up.
	He's never gone on record.
	I mean, one of the French Kiwi shows at that time in 95 tracked him down and he just said he wouldn't be left alone.
	But obviously, by that stage, personally, I think he was got out.
	And, you know, there's all sorts of claims.
	Well, the fact that he was German, did he live in Germany?
	I think he was in either Switzerland or I think he still lives in Germany.
	He may have moved countries.
	He's on Facebook, but he's not...
	Okay, so he bought from the cameraman.
	He actually was the one who put up the money for Ray to obtain this footage.
	Is that correct?
	Exactly.
	All right.
	Okay, please continue.
	Okay.
	So, once that was secured and supposedly in November, I think Ray tells a story how they managed to bring all these film canisters straight on the plane, no problem, land at Heathrow, you know,
	just started churning and I guess churning it out to, you know, make into video copies and I think actually this may be one of the reasons that may have I don't know, saved his life, or at least, I think so many people are involved at this point, and the authorities didn't know about it.
	This is my personal opinion and other people have other views, but I think there has been so much work done in the pre-production of licensing and showing this footage around the world, not just like in the early 95, but even leading up to that.
	So, basically, this advert I saw in UFO magazine, which is the British magazine, and this is how they literally were, and I showed you the video earlier on the DHS tape, so what it had was this, it was sold as a Roswell footage, which of course doesn't help matters.
	But in its own way, it gives it a sort of angle of credibility that if you are going to hope something, why would you, you know, refer it to Roswell when it was the cameraman, you know, a different day, the being had five, six fingers, and...
	But obviously, if you're going to market something, you would market it under something that people know about, and Roswell was...
	As I say, in that time with the Paul Davids film, The X-Files, it was a huge subject matter and a number of books by the likes of Stanton Freeman.
	The original uncut footage, which ran for about 15 minutes, I believe, of the autopsy, and I think two minutes of the day brief, that's what was originally sold in this VHS. And it was actually, looking at it now, it was on a special, you couldn't copy it, it had one of those protection things on it.
	So it was, I mean, 33 pounds back in 1995 was pretty expensive for a straight to VHS. I mean, there was a little documentary about I think Brian Blessed did a narration on it, and I think some people like Witherstone might have been on that.
	I can't remember.
	It's been a while since I watched it.
	But anyway, there was me.
	So you haven't transferred.
	I mean, normally if you have a VHS at this point, you would have transferred it into a digital format and then have it basically...
	Yeah, a friend of mine has done that actually.
	Okay, now are you able to show it or is this on YouTube?
	Well, I mean, it's on my group, but to be fair, Kerry, this footage is actually exactly the same footage that we all know.
	And it was shown on Act of Friction with the exception of the opening three seconds, which which was the entry scene into the autopsy room, and that was the only exception.
	All this other footage has seen the light of day, so in that way it's no different to what you could watch on the official alien autopsy.
	True Story DVD, or on YouTube you can watch the famous little footage, and the debut footage.
	But what makes it quite interesting an item to have is, I guess, the fact we had this documentary that Ray tabbed on, maybe a 20 minute documentary, and also this five second entry footage, which doesn't, well not even five seconds, It's a few seconds of footage of them going into the autopsy, this lab room.
	I guess I'm a little confused because I thought what was sold, the footage that was sold, I thought was the tent footage.
	No, that was sold, that was also, someone did put that on their own, this is before, or maybe it was around that time as well, actually, to be fair, called Penetrating the Web.
	It was like a, you might watch it on YouTube, but it did feature, and someone did make some money out of it, but that was literally really poorly shot, you know.
	Right, okay, so this footage is clearly, this is the real, this is Ray San Diego's baby, this is, This is absolutely the cameraman's footage.
	Is that what you're saying?
	Exactly, exactly.
	Why is it so short if there were reels and reels?
	Well, apparently there was like, each reel had three minutes of film.
	So that was, at the time, these cameras could only, you know, the actual stock.
	So, I mean, the actual...
	There is actually another autopsy footage that I'm going to go into, which is another really controversial thing.
	But I mean, it actually is quite long.
	I don't know when was the last time you watched it, Kerry, but I mean, it's quite classic.
	It's been quite a while since I've looked at it.
	So, okay, so people can find it, in other words, and watch it.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	And people can find it online, on YouTube, just search Orbital Media and Alien Autopsy.
	I mean, there's a guy who claims it's his footage and he's sort of, kind of, copyrighted it.
	So, I mean, but we'll get into that again.
	I hope I'm doing okay to find him as well.
	Yeah, no, we're going to stick with you because it's very interesting.
	All right, so, okay, go ahead with this.
	I just added this slide just a few days ago because it's been a while since I've done this talk, but it's an important thing because this is about the magazine 14 Times, which I mentioned earlier, which is Charles Thorpe was a famous...
	He was into all this strange and weird stuff.
	There's a magazine in England, and I think it's probably well known in America as well for 14 times.
	So what happened then, up to the release date when Rob Kibbiot got the rights for his TV show on Fox?
	In fact, strange things were happening.
	I should say before I just read this bit that Rob tells a story like he was sent to Some weird sort of things in the post from Fox to Fox saying that not to go ahead with this publication of this film because, you know, claiming to be some sort of Department of Defence or, you know, he sort of kind of laughed it off or something like that.
	But sometimes, in combination of this story, it shouldn't make me think about it, really, because on the 22nd of August, which is literally six days before it was going to be shown here in England, 14 Times magazine received an envelope containing three black and white prints showing someone touching up the head of an alien with an airbrush and make-up paints.
	As you can see, the head shows a remarkable similarity to the head in Santoli's film, but there are subtle differences in the detail and locations in our shows and ears.
	It's clearly a clever copy by a skilled model maker who could not resist a challenge.
	We still have no idea of the original of these pictures or why they were sent to us.
	They were accompanied by a compliment slip from Morgana Productions, clearly a joky reference to Santilli's holding company, which is called Merlin, but now Morgan Le Fay that was King Art's sister in legend.
	Or it may be a glorious film incident.
	Similar photos were sent to Beforea, which was Philip Mantle's UFO group I was part of, and Union Pictures were making the Roswell incident, the documentary, and the UFO crash from Channel 4.
	So, I mean, this is obviously...
	It says, we have always maintained that this is the first question to be asked about the census film.
	It's not what it appears to show, but who made it and why.
	And it's quite interesting because the actual hand, if you look at the hand here, It's very similar to the blood of hand we see nearly in autopsy for children's surgeons.
	So this definitely was an attempt here to sort of Okay, well that is very interesting.
	So along these lines, further efforts to basically debunk something.
	Well this, you know, this also makes it seem more real that the actual, the real stuff was real and that they were very motivated.
	They had to be very motivated.
	It's kind of like, you know, when they trot out the real the Roswell story and they keep going into weather balloons, even even like 40 years later, however many, maybe it's more than 40 years.
	I guess it is.
	You know, in other words, you know, when people try so hard, there has to be a reason.
	Yeah, exactly.
	I know.
	And the funny thing was what happened, I just found a few days ago, I'm looking up to find out more about this, and they never revealed who actually made it, but it was actually delivered.
	The actual model itself is being six months later to 14 times around January of 1996, when The subject was still going strong, and inside it was a letter saying, you know, this proves that, you know, the alien autopsy was a hoax.
	Obviously, they felt like sending these photos wasn't enough.
	They actually had to send the actual body.
	And you can see that on my page, the alien autopsy Facebook page, and I didn't have time to get that, the actual model.
	And you can actually see that in a museum in I think it's somewhere in the middle of England somewhere.
	And that actually is on the exhibition at some sort of a space museum, funnily enough, from the Charles Fort Institute.
	But this is obviously something that's not something you're going to knock up.
	It's going to take a lot of money.
	Oh yeah, this is a Hollywood caliber artist.
	And to give it away, Kerry, for nothing to, you know, a sort of sceptical magazine on paranormal.
	I say sceptical, but maybe I didn't say that, but I do feel that sometimes.
	To give it away and to sort of...
	It doesn't imply that this is someone doing a similar thing with someone wearing plastic gloves.
	So it's very suspicious, that's all I'm saying.
	If there's nothing to it, and was it another model maker being very jealous?
	Some skeptics might say that.
	I'm not going with that anyway.
	So what happened was it did come out, it was shown.
	And it was broadcast in the United States, as I said, August 28th, and as our friend Robert Piviat, I don't think you saw him, I did meet him at the Loughlin Conference, and it was hosted, this show, by Robert, Jonathan Frakes, sorry, sorry, Jonathan Frakes, of course, played in the next generation.
	Time Magazine said it had sparked a debate, not seen since the Cipruda film, which is the famous procedure of JFK being assassinated, which is quite true.
	When our Fox Re-boardcasters' programme was biased, it made huge ratings.
	I think each time, a high rating for the Melbourne Broadcasters were in its time slot, with 11.7 million viewers.
	Now, according to the analysis by noted forensic pathologist Silvek and special effects make-up, Okay, and the final, I believe I have seen it, but the final,
	you know, because I had him on my show, actually, I've had him on my show twice, and he did sort of refer to this in the first show I had with him, but what was, I don't remember, what's the final thing, that it's a fake?
	Is that it?
	No, he never really did a program debunk.
	He did one about the tent footage that came out maybe a year or two later, but he was never really allowed.
	I think after this new show, he was like...
	The first one I think just had the footage, the alien autopsy, and then later ones they showed some of the Bay Brief footage that was also released by Ray at the time.
	But it was certainly open-ended.
	It was certainly not as sceptical.
	It was a case of you watch it, you know, you work it out.
	We've approached the experts as much as we can, and it certainly looks like Having, you know, materials in that room from 1947.
	Well, I can't remember, you know, can you refresh my memory?
	Does he refer to the tent footage and that hoax in this?
	I don't think he was allowed to.
	I think because of the controversial nature, this is why I think When Ray paid money for this, he didn't want it to be associated with what he saw as the genuine footage.
	So whether, you know, as I say, Ray may have been guilty of a sign-off of some sort regarding the potential footage, but he knew that the real footage, you know, Because either way, you just can't compare, you know, but it's such a lame piece of...
	It's so terrible.
	No, I appreciate that, but in terms of when you're trying to prove something is real, it can be useful to refer to something that is fake.
	It would have done, but I guess, I mean, Ray would have had some control over that, and I think there was some confusion still as to...
	Just what the tent footage was and how it fitted into it all.
	Okay, so this was released when exactly again?
	This was shown in 1995, 28th The Wall.
	Oh, so quite soon after the whole thing.
	Yeah, I mean, this picture on the right, just on the DVD, would have come out maybe a few years after or whatever.
	All right.
	Sorry about this.
	That's okay.
	Okay.
	Okay, so continue.
	Yeah, so Seal Vect was this pathologist who is not alive now, sadly.
	I mean, it is a long time.
	It's nearly 25 years ago now since this all kicked off So, Cyril, he thought they were more surgeons than pathologists, these people working on this, being a surgeon, being a doctor who is trained to perform medical operations, while a pathologist examines a dead body and cuts it up, cuts it open to see how they died.
	And this is, you know, apparently because of the super-secret nature of Doing alien autopsy at the time, obviously only a few people were privy to it and this might explain why.
	It's been claimed, obviously, that some members of Majestic 12, both of the doctors, may have been once that while in this footage.
	I've got to show you a really interesting clip here, Dr Roger Lee, I'm sure you know who he is.
	Early, he died maybe in 2017, I believe, or so.
	But here's a very important video.
	He was a surgeon, and I'm just going to come out of this because it is really interesting what he says about his views on the alien autopsy.
	And bearing in mind, the date on this video is a year after this supposed claims that it was all a hoax came out.
	So this wasn't something that happened in 1995.
	It's been interviewed by a young lady.
	His father had an interest in the actual crash of the UFO, which we'll go into.
	And I'm just going to play this, but it's about four minutes long, but it is a very interesting video.
	So let me just play this video for you here.
	I'm just going to fast forward.
	I don't like the message.
	Don't kill the messenger.
	I know this probably isn't your area of specialty, but one of the things we're investigating is how people feel about the alien autopsy footage.
	Do you have any opinions on that?
	Well, yes I do.
	I was in on it from almost the beginning.
	I interviewed Ray Santilli in London and he said that he was in the music business and he evidently is in the music business.
	I know what the current thoughts, that the body was a construct made by a special effects artist.
	But I don't believe it.
	I think somebody is taking credit for something they didn't do.
	That's my personal opinion.
	Now, I sat with about 17 other physicians when this came out.
	And we looked at it.
	We didn't recognize the internal organs either, surgeons or myself.
	But the techniques that were used to dissect the body are real techniques that we're trained to use in taking apart a human body.
	And those are little idiosyncrasies that if You know, if a cameraman was to film it and then have, you know, guidance from a special effects artist to build a dummy, They would have to have a tremendous amount of background knowledge.
	I mean, the money that would have to be spent to do something like this would be far more than what you would get out of it.
	In another one of the shots in the autopsy film, when the leg is raised and the knee is bent, if you look at it frame by frame, you'll see that the thigh externally rotates.
	Well, this is how it works in a human being.
	So, again, in order to do this in an artificial way, you would have to employ the services of a kinesiologist so that in four frames of the film, it would be so intricate, you'd have to show the external rotation of the thigh.
	Well, again, it's not logical.
	It doesn't make sense to me.
	And, you know, again, you ask my personal opinion.
	I think that this may have been...
	A training film that, you know, maybe some branch of the military was using for training physicians in the field that when they came upon crash sites and there was bodies, you know, this is what would happen.
	So I don't know.
	I don't think anybody will know truly until something happens down the line.
	So as a physician, you feel like the procedures were really too accurate for it to be a hoax?
	Exactly.
	It's just the techniques that we use for dissection and the way the tissues came apart.
	I'm working on a large screen film on the UFO subject in some of my work.
	It's not a documentary, it's an entertainment film.
	I'm well aware of what special effects artists can do.
	For example, to make blood, you have instruments like a blood knife.
	When you cut, it releases liquid that looks like blood.
	If you look closely at this film, the blood that you see on the film, or whatever it's supposed to be, does not come out of the knife.
	It comes from the inside of the tissues.
	So, again, you would have to be a true genius in the creation of an entity in which you could put, you know, a little maybe latex blood vessels and then some fluid to come out.
	It's just too much work for what they got out of it.
	And are many of your colleagues in the scientific community, are they in agreement on this?
	Well, let's not say the scientific community, because the scientific community doesn't have much to do with subjects like this.
	But the medical community that is associated with me that looked at the film, all was in agreement that they didn't know what it was, and that it did not represent something that we know as common pathology.
	You can have, for example, the multidactyly, more than one finger.
	One of the things that happens in nature when you have multidactyly is that you'll find one of two things.
	Either one finger is a clone of another.
	In other words, if we had two second fingers, one would be exactly the same length as the other.
	If we look at the parabola of fingers on the human hand, it has a parabola.
	Fingers are not the same size.
	So when these things happen in nature as a mutation or a congenital defect, you would either see two that would be the same size or the other kind is just a little stump.
	Of a digit that's left, and the stump can be amputated, and then the foot will appear normal.
	In the film, when they showed both the hand and the foot, there was a perfect parabola of the six digits.
	So that's another thing that's sort of strange.
	Thank you.
	Is there anything you'd like to add?
	Well, I can say that my advice, my two cents, is that if you come across anybody Either in the field of ufology or government or in some other area that claims to be an expert on any of this stuff, then they'll tell you the answers and you'll say definitively something.
	This is the way it is.
	My advice is to put a finger in each ear and run as fast as you can.
	Thank you.
	So that was...
	Okay, so where is that clip from?
	Is that from the Kvyat film?
	No, no, no, no.
	That was 2007.
	That was the daughter of one of the researchers who claims that he found the crash site for this actual UFO crash.
	Oh, okay.
	Ed Gurman's daughter...
	And that was her interviewing Roger at the Boswell Museum.
	Oh, right.
	Okay, 2007.
	Right.
	So, in other words, Bob Kvyat, he did not have access.
	He did not have an interview in his documentary with Lear, I take it.
	I don't think he did, you know.
	I don't think so.
	I might be wrong on that, but from memory, I don't remember...
	Well, because in many ways, it basically seals the deal right there, that it's real.
	As far as I'm concerned, you know, with everything else that you want to go into, I don't think you can argue with his statements.
	Well, no, exactly.
	And these other statements here, Kerry, on the screen, I mean, there were famous Italian surgeons who gave their opinion on Leonore Toxie.
	In October 95, Italian ufologist, Maurizio Baiata, who's still involved with the UFO subject, he organised a private viewing of the Sante footage of Two Italian leading or top two technicians, Cesare and Massimo Signoracci.
	Of the two technicians, the youngest Massimo had already seen the material.
	He felt that being in the film was neither human nor dummy.
	Pierluigi Bama Bologni, a professor of pathological anatomy at the University of Turin, Cesare.
	As for my opinion, in keeping with that of other pathologists, I am in favour of the hypothesis that it is not a human being in the order of 70%.
	What I do not think is that it is a human being in the other two.
	So that was interesting.
	I mean, there were some other pathologists, you know, weren't sure, but we were all quite...
	I mean, I was actually more impressed with the actual pathologist surgeons and so-called special effects people because they're not dealing with doing autopsies on human beings.
	So for me, the strongest proof was going to be with It's very interesting.
	So this picture here is what the cameraman would have used at the time, which is a Bell& Howe 16mm filmo camera.
	So I'm going on to the alien autopsy now.
	This is actually the footage.
	These pictures here are slightly better than the ones you may remember seeing because I actually had a beta version that was transferred.
	A colleague in Italy sent me and I've been able to sort of get better in the This is very interesting.
	Obviously, this is probably bringing back some memories for people.
	If they haven't seen it, you can watch this footage in line, albeit not the good quality version.
	That was a more grainy type one.
	But, you know, it's obviously a very sort of...
	Scary thing for maybe people to watch back in 1995.
	I know a lot of people were actually quite traumatised and, you know, whether it was, you think it was a hoax or whatever, but it was certainly a very odd looking, strange creature with the ears quite offset down there.
	Some images there of how it might have looked.
	I mean, again, I mean, the idea really, because It was suggested that these beings were actually female, and we'll see why in a second.
	Again, you can see how bright this autopsy room, with the light reflecting onto the wounds of the being, where it looks like this being had either damage done from the crash site, Maybe, possibly, they were shot at by some sort of trigger-happy or rather scared members of the American military at that time.
	That does kind of fit with the story.
	You can see the damage here of the leg on the right-hand side.
	You can see the bruising.
	Again, you can see it is what it would be with the bright lights in an autopsy room.
	You have instruments here.
	There's a scene where there's removal of an island, and if anyone's read Philip Corso's book, The Day After Rosewell, which came out actually a couple of years after this film,
	I seem to remember, but he actually talks about how they have They retrieved a similar type lens and that's one of the things that they went on to use, night vision, where they could actually put the lens up to their eye and actually see in the dark.
	So this sort of concept, this wasn't really known or suggested about in ecology at the time until this footage came out.
	Were these beings, and you thought, well, is that black bit the actual eye, or is the lens actually hiding something else?
	And as this trick reveals, there was actually a pupil behind the eye.
	Some people say, well, this mouth is very strange, but the belief being that these, like the greys, I mean, I'm not saying this is a grey, I think there's been claims that this being is called, funnily enough, an orange by some people.
	I don't know if you're aware of Michael Wolff, Kerry did the book, Captures of Heaven, and I think he, again, another person who sort of blew the whistle, and I think he refers to these type beings of being orange, as opposed to their prey, so they would have called it orange, and so their skin seemed a lot lighter, and they weren't quite rosetta, reticulant types.
	I have heard from information that these beings were from Orion, and it was actually these female beings, almost star sister type beings, believe it or not.
	Right.
	Well, this is much more humanoid than a grey.
	A grey is, you know, it does not look like that, actually.
	Yeah, no, exactly.
	So, I mean, this is all quite gruff.
	We can see the pupils here.
	So, it's definitely something, I mean, I have found that You know, there is a huge controversy over the bodies recovered at the real Roswell event as well.
	Oh, sure.
	I'm sure you're aware of that.
	In other words, you're saying four fingers and possibly gray, the typical gray.
	Other people have not said that they look that way.
	Sorry, we're getting an echo again.
	There's a lot of controversy around that, so go ahead.
	Yeah, so I mean, supposedly this was another crash before, I mean, it could well have, maybe it was one of the ones that did crash into, maybe it was one that they found earlier, maybe they didn't find a Roswell one, it's just another theory I guess, but certainly the ones that Roswell, I think widely said that they were four-fingered and quite These are very muscular beings.
	When we read out the cameraman's statement earlier, he did refer to one of the soldiers hitting the butt of the butt of the rifle with the preacher's head.
	So it just kind of matched up with...
	There's some very large things in this.
	If you watch the video, and I've watched it so many times, and other researchers I've spoke to who've studied it a long time, there's some very...
	Very strange.
	Things like this pyramid-shaped crystal-type things once they open up the body, and he actually puts his finger inside this almost like a dart of an arrow.
	Very, very strange.
	If you want to hug something, I'm not sure if that's the sort of thing you'd be putting in the body, but hey, maybe not.
	So was it a crone?
	Because it seemed to have no navel either, and the breasts weren't there, but it certainly had like a vagina, so this is why obviously it was seen as being female, which is, you know, interesting in itself.
	You know, it's quite controversial, but I guess the idea that it wasn't so much our space bodies So again, very interesting and quite graphic.
	I think they actually blurred this out on Robert Kvyat's TV show in America where they digitized bits of these areas.
	So obviously they felt it was either too realistic or too disturbing to show.
	I mean, it's quite a gruesome thing.
	One of the things I've done is watched human autopsy since I started studying subjects and it's It's not a pretty thing, obviously, but it's an interesting thing, and it makes you think about how unreal a body looks like when they're dead.
	You know, when that soul has gone out of the body, it's a very weird thing since, you know, someone you love, and then suddenly...
	Well, yes.
	It can look like a dark, you know, it can look, you know, it doesn't look like that because that spark of life is no longer in it.
	So I'm just saying that as a...
	As a point that some people say, oh, it's a dummy, but, you know, once that spark, the light is gone.
	I should say also that I believe that these autopsies happen within an hour or so of these beings dying because of all the various, because of the blood that was seen and how much intact all the organs are.
	So, I think what happens in an autopsy like this would be that as soon as they realised that they were deteriorating, that they were Possibly brought into this room and given an autopsy within an hour or so.
	Well, is there any, have there been any interviews with...
	God, I can't believe what's happening with the sound.
	I don't know if you can hear me, but with regard to the...
	It being a possible android, in other words, was it considered to be biological by surgeons and or people that have observed the footage?
	Have they, you know, maybe scientists ever brought up the idea that...
	Well, I mean, the idea, because, you know, Bellybutt and Mabel, that, you know, that these were clone beings and that they were grown out of space.
	I mean, even the guy who claims now that he hosts it and he's got all this backstory, you know, he says a similar sort of thing, which is convenient, you know.
	But I certainly think that they may have been...
	This was a scout craft of some kind and that whether there was...
	I guess these bodies, they had the basic needs for flying an interstellar craft of some sort.
	People say about the mouth being a trophy, because These beings advanced, maybe in the past their mouth may have had a use for it, but over thousands of years of possible evolution, and maybe, you know, obviously telepathic, we assume these beings, as we'll go into, are actually telepathic, and we're actually using their hands as a conduit for flying craft.
	So the idea that this mouth is frozen because it's snow, actually, they don't actually...
	A bit like the greys in some way, I guess, because, you know, they get that same sort of, you know, like a slit for a mouth where they just don't use the mouth.
	Okay, but...
	Just a couple of things in the picture with the microphone, and then there's all these interesting little bits and pieces that are very intriguing, you know.
	There's a sign here, there's a microphone where this guy is, and there is actually a woman in the room, which we tend to have.
	There's actually, at one point, there's I think there's three people working on the body, plus you've got the guy here, and you've also got the cameraman wearing the suit, so there's actually quite a few people in quite a confined area.
	People are quite critical of, you know, there's even one bit where he bumps into one of the surgeons.
	Oh no, hold on one second here.
	This is extraordinary.
	It looks like we might have gone off the air.
	This is...
	I'm not sure, so stand by.
	I mean, I'm looking at this...
	God, this is so annoying.
	Yeah, it looks like they did knock me off YouTube.
	That isn't fucking predictable.
	I don't know what is.
	Sorry for my French over here, but seriously, I can't believe this is like, how many years ago was this?
	And they're still fucking paranoid.
	I mean, they're so out of their minds, these people.
	It boggles the mind.
	This case is still quite a hot potato.
	Apparently.
	I mean, what in the world is going on?
	I wonder how long we've been off the air.
	God damn it.
	Hold on a second here.
	Maybe it hasn't been that long.
	I'm recording this, so I actually will have an audio recording regardless of what the hell they're doing here.
	I have to see if this is going to work.
	Oh, I can't believe this nonsense.
	Oh, no.
	A server error.
	This is YouTube throwing us off.
	You know what massive server error?
	I mean, seriously?
	In that gigantic server farm?
	We, of all people, of course, on my shows...
	Suddenly encounter a YouTube server error.
	I mean, it boggles the mind.
	It's just incredible.
	I'm trying to get back on here.
	I guess I'm going to have to start a new...
	It's not letting me go back into the same...
	How can this be?
	Oh, no.
	Oh, my God.
	I can't believe this.
	I'm...
	Really, I should have you speak at my conference, and then we could film you properly.
	Well, I mean, it's such a long tour.
	I mean, I'm probably not even halfway through it.
	Oh, God.
	In a worse-paced scenario, I could always come back and do a part two.
	Yeah, actually, I think that would be a good idea.
	But just because I'm really concerned about this at the moment...
	What in the hell is happening?
	Okay, I'm going to close.
	I'm going to actually hang up from you.
	I'm going to call you back.
	We're going to have to try to do at least the final segment here.
	And we may actually try to have you back.
	Now they've thrown me off YouTube altogether, it looks like.
	I don't believe this.
	Okay, I'm going to call you back, okay?
	I'm going to try to get back on the air.
	So stand by, please.
	Hi, Carrie.
	Hi there.
	Well, they're not letting me back on the air.
	Maybe that tells us everything we need to know.
	Yeah, exactly.
	That's just incredible.
	I've only had this happen once or twice.
	I've been thrown off the air a few times, actually.
	And, of course, always controversial subjects.
	But this just takes the cake, because this is unbelievable.
	What psychos these people are.
	So, I have to say that what's happened here is that I would like to see...
	I don't know when we ended.
	I won't know for at least five or ten minutes when the other...
	I wonder when they ended it.
	It probably was around the time when I said, well, this basically cinches the deal and it's real.
	Yeah, that's right.
	No, it was just after the Roger Lear thing, I think.
	I wouldn't be a bit surprised.
	I'm watching it back on my mobile phone.
	Oh, you are?
	Okay.
	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
	Well, it's a bit after that, maybe another five minutes or seven minutes.
	Well, you've got the scientists, the Italian scientists, and basically it was going in the direction of proving that the thing is real.
	It was actually, I can tell you what it was.
	It was a lens removal, was the last one that we talked about, and then it went from there.
	Well, it might have been right after I asked the question about it being an android.
	That's happened to me before when I've done an interview and I asked that question actually was about the Nazca aliens and they really go crazy over that because the evidence is that not only are aliens here but aliens have artificial intelligence and are able to build androids and that is something that drives them absolutely crazy that people would find that out.
	So, yeah.
	So I have to wait until I see the very, very end and where we go.
	We've got to have you back.
	I know that's asking for trouble because I don't know if it's going to be as bad a connection here.
	I don't know if there's a possibility that you could...
	We could enlist Miles' help and try to get you in his studio and then broadcast from there.
	He'll help me, no doubt.
	And I really would love to have you.
	I wish you were speaking at my conference now that I see all your stuff you've got.
	Well, you know, the only thing is there, Carrie, is I've actually done that talk at Watford University Academy actually a couple of years ago.
	Right.
	But...
	But, you know, I actually talk about other things as well, other controversial things.
	Well, it doesn't matter.
	This is the one that's getting me into trouble the most, actually.
	Oh, right.
	I mean, well, it's absolutely fascinating.
	I'm just flabbergasted that I can't even get...
	I've started a whole new thing.
	I'm going to try it again while I've got you on the line here, just in case they get bored and go on to other things.
	Well, I'll...
	I talked to Bill Ryan actually, at Loughlin as well, when you were there, I think.
	Right.
	And I was talking, I just called you, I didn't really get long to talk to him, but I was chatting, and he told me, I think, the story about, I think you went to this crash fire.
	We did.
	With Ed Gurman, which is the guy whose daughter did that video interview with...
	Ah, okay.
	Yes.
	We can talk about that another time.
	Oh, yeah.
	That's an interesting...
	Let me see.
	That was Socorro, wasn't it?
	Yeah, yeah.
	That would be Socorro.
	Yeah, his brother.
	I think it was Ed German's brother.
	I didn't know his brother might have been into it, but Bill was saying that it was his brother that took you both there.
	Yeah.
	Well, we have an interview with him, but I'm trying to remember his name, but he actually...
	He gave me a piece of material from the craft.
	He didn't give it to me to keep.
	He let me hold it in my hand and I hold it on camera.
	And there's actually energy in the piece.
	It's that kind of thing where you wrinkle it and it just goes out flat again.
	It's real.
	It's real stuff.
	It's not like anything you've People have seen in our normal sort of materials that we have, at least in the general public, even up to this time.
	And the fact that it has energy, you know, that actually is in keeping with the whole notion.
	So I am amazed.
	I cannot get back on YouTube.
	I cannot...
	I could try one other method.
	I think it's useless now because my audience...
	Well, yeah, also, I mean...
	It's probably late there as well.
	To give you some idea of where I was on my presentation, that was slide 36, and it goes up to 116.
	Oh, wow.
	So, okay, we'll definitely have you back, so if you just can figure out when that can be...
	Yeah, I'll look at my shift pattern.
	I'm back to work late shifts tomorrow.
	All right.
	Actually, no, I'll go back to work tomorrow.
	And if you could talk to Miles, and then we'll just pick up...
	I'm going to hope that everything up to that point was okay.
	I mean, it looked okay.
	I just did a little quick...
	When you came hung up, I did a little quick look, and it didn't seem too bad.
	Maybe the sound could be better.
	Yeah, the sound was pretty bad.
	I'll check it.
	But the video came with some...
	Right.
	Well, maybe that's a good opportunity to take stock and, you know, reassess things.
	Well, we could do a summary of the first part, perhaps.
	Yeah, I mean, I don't even just literally got onto the actual pictures of the being, you know, the interesting thing.
	Maybe that was too much as well, maybe that was the thing, I don't know.
	Incredible.
	It is incredible.
	Can you see my screen still, actually, or not?
	Well, I don't have my camera on.
	I don't know.
	No, it's okay.
	I'm just wondering if you could see it.
	Yeah, but I am recording this.
	So why don't you say some closing comments, and then what I'm going to do is take what I've got.
	I'll put the banner on the screen and we'll have the dialogue about how we've been knocked off the air and I'm not able to get back on.
	It's all very suspicious.
	It's been a long time since somebody...
	They've done this to me, so...
	And it's just amazing with all the problems we've been having.
	So, can you wrap things up and then we'll go on to create part two sometime when they let me back on that fricking air.
	Hopefully, in time for my next show.
	I have a show.
	I have more shows this week, supposedly.
	But anyway, go ahead.
	Okay.
	Well, I mean, when we were rudely interrupted there by, you know, being knocked off there, but I mean, I'd only just really got through maybe about a quarter of my talk here, but we were just showing the photos there of the actual,
	you know, steals from some of the footage of the alien autopsy, and I think Kerry's going to have me back, which is great, on another show, and we can move along from there, because I've really only just touched on the conspiratorial aspect of it,
	or there's some suspicious things going on, such as breakings, you know, we've got the stuff about the letter being sent to the 14 Times, and also Robert Kvyat was Given some odd documents to Fox, you know, the producers of the Fact or Fiction show.
	So there was clearly, if this was all just our hoax and there was nothing to it, And the sheer fact that I could talk about it for another two, three hours tells you if this is a hoax, then this is unlike any other hoax you've ever come across.
	And I clearly think that it isn't and that we're actually being sold a massive line here.
	And actually the story gets a lot more intriguing when, I guess in part two, we'll talk about what happened Which, basically, it took another 11 years before the story changed from it being a genuine film, and we'll talk about that in part two, where Ray himself said that it was a recreation, but obviously that's a bit of a teaser, I guess.
	Oh, right.
	He changes his story.
	Yeah, he changes his story.
	And not only that, there's a major motion picture film that suddenly comes out of nowhere, which goes along with his new story and how he gets far more weirder, far more stranger.
	Well, I won't reveal too much, but one of the major characters is now languishing inside prison for 32 years.
	I know you're familiar with it.
	Joanne Richards' husband.
	Right, Mark Richards.
	I mean, again, this story has parallels with someone who's a major character in the Alien Autopsy saga who is now serving 32 years in prison.
	And we can talk about that again in maybe part two.
	Okay, well, you definitely have to come back.
	And I think because the sound and everything has been So difficult at your site where you are because I just got done doing a couple shows where I had perfect sound over here so I haven't changed a thing on my end but this is just typical of what goes on so what I'd like to do is arrange with Miles if he is willing so if you can check with him get back to me and let's settle on a date and then we can have you go over to his studio
	and try to do a live broadcast for the rest of this Sure.
	Yeah, that could work out quite well, I think.
	Yeah, I think that'd be ideal.
	So thank you so much, Colin.
	Fascinating stuff.
	I actually had no idea.
	I mean, I knew it was going to be interesting, but I didn't know.
	And I certainly didn't know I was going to get thrown off the air all these years later over this story.
	I mean, that's just amazing.
	It's amazing.
	Not only was I thrown off the air, but I can't get back on.
	You don't know, that's just like YouTube suddenly just doesn't work.
	It doesn't work.
	And I'm a YouTube partner.
	I mean, it's just like amazing.
	And not only that, I have to tell you that they've already, they did record the The video up to a point.
	I don't know how far it went.
	I think up to 1 hour 35 I make it on my one.
	Okay.
	And what happens is they've already marked it as unsuitable for advertisers.
	Meaning...
	And I've already had to appeal it.
	But you see, all these...
	They did the same thing to a Kennedy assassination video I put up about this Bruder footage.
	And then I appealed that and they had to let it go and let me...
	you know be able to put ads on so this is how they attack something uh so they've attacked it in multiple ways and well they kind of shot themselves in the foot because it would just generate more interest right and so it can't be I mean it's obviously got to be real because there wouldn't again they create a dummy they create all this stuff they you know it's just like the moon footage they just go so out of their way to uh To create what is in essence and what get people to think it's a hoax.
	That is just fascinating.
	The way they think and the fact that they think the same way.
	How many years later, after the 60s, 30-something years later, they're still operating on the same frickin' sort of playbook and here we are.
	God, I can't even count the number of years.
	That we are in 2019 and I'm being thrown off the air for even talking to you about this.
	So, fascinating, fascinating stuff.
	Okay.
	Thank you.
	Please, please do talk to Miles.
	Let's try to arrange this.
	I am here and then I'm coming to England.
	I will be there for the conference.
	Okay, but I'm also saying that if for some reason we try again and it does get thrown off the air again, which will just be more proof, then we could arrange to come and interview you in person.
	Yeah, cool.
	Whatever.
	Whatever's good for you is good for me.
	All right.
	Excellent.
	Have you written a book about this?
	No, because there is so many grey areas and also controversial stuff, I wouldn't like to be stuck with saying something that I might change an opinion on.
	Also, the guy who supposedly wants to sue me and attack me for saying it's real, he's apparently, I don't know, litigious, but he's bringing out his own book.
	But then, you know, this is one of the parts of the story where he's been saying this for the last 10 years.
	Well, why, I don't, how can somebody sue you for your own opinion?
	Well, he's saying that I've, because I did some research on him and found out some things that I found, funny enough, by just using Google, and then I sort of repeated it on, well, on one of my slides about him, because, you know, if I want to find out, you know, who's done the great jokes of all time, then forgive me for actually looking into your background, you know what I mean?
	And sure enough, when I did some research, it did come up with some rather sort of unsavory things about him.
	So, you know, it wasn't my claims.
	It was stuff that we've been said online, which I found interesting.
	Right.
	So I didn't think he was quite the amazing magician that this guy claims he is.
	And that pulled off the greatest hopes of all time, basically.
	Right.
	Okay, well.
	That's another tantalizing teaser. - Excellent.
	All right.
	Thank you so much for coming on the show.
	I really do appreciate it.
	And we'll be back in touch.
	Okay?
	Well, thanks, Carrie.
	Thanks for listening.
	Thanks to people for watching what you did get to see.
	Just amazing.
	All right.
	Take care.
	Bye-bye.
	All right.
	Thanks, Carrie.

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