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Dec. 14, 2017 - Project Camelot
02:04:48
JOHN BRANDENBURG: THE UFO COVERUP & THE ALIEN THREAT
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Thank you.
Hi, everyone. everyone.
I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot, and I am here tonight with Dr. John John Brandenburg and we're going to be talking about his latest book and also the other books that he's written in what appears to be a trilogy I believe and and and so I want to welcome you John and actually John is on a different medium than I am,
so I'm going to be switching between screens here.
So if you'll bear with me as I do that, we'll bring him on the screen.
And John, say hello to everyone.
Hello everybody.
Great to be on this show.
Okay, and I'm just going to double check that our sound is coming through loud and clear.
So, yeah, I think we're good.
All right.
So, it's great to have you here, John.
And this time, we've actually interviewed John before.
So, it wasn't that long ago, actually, that I interviewed you, right?
No, it wasn't.
And so it's lovely to be able to do this.
And what I'm going to do is read the brief bio that I have here for you.
Then I'm going to ask you to augment it somewhat.
All right?
Mm-hmm.
Very good.
All right.
And what I think I'll do is actually share this screen.
It's interesting how this works.
Just bear with me.
We're going to try to get you on the screen at the same time.
Okay.
Okay, so I think I've got this organized properly, and what I'm going to do is, first of all, you have a book that's called Morning Star Pass, The Collapse of the UFO Cover-Up, and you have written under a pen name, Victor Norgard.
So, in a certain sense, this is kind of your coming out party.
Call it that.
I suppose, yes.
And so you've got, this is actually, is this the second volume of the trilogy and then you've got a new third one?
No, the, well, Morningstar Pass is the first book of the trilogy.
There's kind of a prequel to it.
If you say that the trilogy I've written is like Lord of the Rings and then There's another book called Asteroid 20-2012 Sepulveda, which is kind of The Hobbit.
It's a prequel to Morningstar Pass.
Now I've published the sequel, which is called To Rule a Night, The UFO War.
And now I'm going to be putting out a third book of the trilogy in the next couple of months.
Okay.
And we have a bio for you here, so I'm just going to briefly read it.
It is on my website, projectcamelot.tv or projectcamelotportal.com.
They go to the same place.
Dr.
John Brandenburg is a plasma physicist working as a consultant at Morningstar Applied Physics, LLC. And as a part-time instructor of astronomy, physics, and mathematics at Madison College.
He's also, it looks like, other learning institutions in Madison, Wisconsin as well.
He previously worked at orbital technologies on space plasma technology, nuclear fusion, and advanced space propulsion.
He is a principal inventor of the MET, Microwave Electrothermal Plasma Thruster, using water propellant for space propulsion.
He's also worked on SDI, the Clementine Mission to the Moon, Rocket Plume Regolith, Interactions on the Moon and Mars, Vortex Theory of Rocket Engine Design, and Combined Sakharov-Kaluza Klein Theory of Field Unification, You did very well with that.
For the purposes of space propulsion and Mars science.
He has authored popular science books, Life and Death on Mars, 2010, Beyond Einstein's Unified Field, 2011, and Dead Mars, Dying Earth, 1999, with Monica Ricks Paxson.
He's written two science fiction novels under the pen name Victor Norgat.
I think it's more than that now, right?
It's three books.
So we have the Morning Star Pass, Collapse of the UFO Cover-Up, Asteroid 20-2012, Sepulveda, and then what's the newest one called?
It's called To Rule the Night, the UFO War.
Okay, and we don't have that one here on the screen at the moment, but all of these books can be gotten at Amazon.
We've got a major link on our site for that, and so I encourage everyone to go over to Amazon, and if I can put this on the front page, if I get over to Amazon, I will do that during our discussion.
Very good.
So that's it for the moment.
What I want to do now, John, is basically have you Explain to people how and why you started writing these very thick volumes of fiction, basically, and I would say fiction based on fact.
Yes, I was working in Washington, D.C., closely with the Pentagon and the Intel community for about 15 years.
And I gained a lot of insight as to how space problems are handled by that community.
And so the job of a science fiction writer is to ask, what if?
So I asked myself, knowing what I know about how the Pentagon and this intelligence community like to handle things, what would What if there was actually an asteroid discovered to be on a collision course with Earth?
So I tried as realistically as possible to write about that in a fictional way.
And it's actually quite dramatic.
NASA talks about this as if it would just be a piece of cake.
In fact, several of the characters keep using that phrase all the time.
Even though they're nearing to panic state, they'll just say, oh, piece of cake.
And then it's a more lighthearted novel because the villain is a big chunk of rock.
In Morningstar Past, the collapse of the UFO cover-up is a deadly serious novel, however, about what would happen if you had a secret government.
Counsel that was negotiating with a foreign government that was extraterrestrial without the knowledge of anybody.
The subtitle of the novel is Absolute Secrecy Creates Absolute Power.
We have a situation in the novel where they not only have been investigating UFO phenomenon They started talking to the aliens and in fact negotiated a secret agreement or treaty with them.
And as one character in the book remarks, after it becomes known that this secret treaty exists, he says, if the UFO cover-up ends, then we're going to have a constitutional crisis because we'll have a treaty with a foreign power whose existence is not even known to the public.
And it was never ratified by the Senate.
It was negotiated without their advice and consent by ambassadors that they did not appoint.
All of these are specified in the Constitution as being how you negotiate with foreign powers.
Imagine that a small group of people, none of them elected by anybody, Are negotiating with the most powerful entity that is not even on Earth.
It controls the space around the Earth.
And they don't answer to anyone.
They consider the president himself to be a rather dubious and transitory figure.
I mean, the presidents come and go, but their job just goes on forever.
So...
Right.
And let me just sort of interject here for the benefit of the listeners.
You know, I have read Morningstar Pass, which is a, I think it's a 700 plus page book, goes into a great deal of detail.
I want to say that a lot of the information there coincides with everything that we know about what is currently happening on the planet here, and that we do indeed have a secret Cabal, whatever you want to call it, and a secret space program that has been negotiating with aliens, just as in your novel.
In fact, what's happening right now, we've been talking about this offline, you and I, just briefly saying that actually it's very interesting how things that are unfolding right now...
With the Trump administration and various moves they're making are very similar to what happens in your book.
It's more towards the end than towards the beginning of Morning Star Pass, needless to say.
And so you are in some ways writing a rather prophetic book in a certain sense.
I had a sense that I was doing that, yes.
I felt that a scenario similar to what I had in the book could occur in the future.
Okay.
And then you also told me, I hope it's okay if I say this, that it was read in some higher circles in Washington, D.C. and or in the government.
Is that correct?
To the best of my knowledge, it was widely read within the Adele community.
Okay.
And I got several compliments from people that I barely even knew who were sitting down at various intelligence agencies.
They said that it was a very interesting book and they really enjoyed it.
Right.
And that's good because in the novel, especially towards the end, There is a war, kind of a civil war, internally in the intelligence community between people who are kind of allied with this secret council negotiating with the aliens and people who oppose this.
And so it becomes a...
Well, as the UFO cover-up collapses...
We have an attempted coup d'etat.
Exactly.
And I think that that, again, strikes me as being rather prophetic.
Now, I don't know what we don't know at this juncture in sort of what's going on, what may happen.
And some people have even termed Trump's win.
You know, win of this election as a kind of a coup d'etat in what some would say is a positive direction.
A coup d'etat is where you have tanks in the streets and you take over, you suspend constitutional government.
As near as I can tell, you know, we had an election.
As near as you can tell.
We can be charitable and call it an election.
So anyway, I, you know, If you get me involved in the present political situation, this could be a six-hour program.
I want to say, though, that this particular situation that we're in right now, and what you wrote in your book, I was very pleased to see where you went with this, because I think a lot of people don't realize that if you have an unconstitutional government running this country and they get found out,
which they're going to be, and they do in your book, then you have a choice to be made.
And if some of the government...
Still want to go along with the aliens that they've made deals with, whereas others of the government do not, to say nothing of what the people want.
Then you may indeed, it may lead to a kind of a civil war, whatever you want to call that, where one side is fighting the other.
And that's exactly what happens in your book, which is, you know, a lot of people have been talking about, oh, we're going to have civil war because of other reasons to do with financial and this and that.
But I don't think anyone out there Thought UFO disclosure would lead to civil war.
And I think that's really an astute observation, albeit, you know, hypothetical in a fiction based on fact book, the way you wrote it, right?
Well, yes, because you have a situation where a portion of the government is carrying on negotiations with a foreign power.
Most people don't even know exists.
There's supposed to be a constitutional process for carrying on all such negotiations and arriving at all such treaties.
There's supposed to be public documents, but in the novel it's found out that we have this treaty with this foreign power that is extraterrestrial.
The premise is similar to the movie Kind, where there, in the middle of the Cold War, you had a completely secret meeting between the government and the UFO, one group of UFO aliens.
You know, they're reported to be many different species.
And so they have this secret love fest at Devil's Tower in Wyoming in the movie.
And that was made in 1970, about 76, 77, and was in the middle of the Cold War.
And many people thought that this was some kind of way to prepare the public for what had actually transpired a few years earlier.
Okay, now...
And so I took that as a premise as that this had actually happened.
And then what...
How did things evolve after the secret treaty was in the novel?
The treaty involved the aliens moving into the Devil's Tower, basically, making it their own base, which the government agreed to because it wanted technologies, it wanted power.
It could be, you know, derived from those technologies.
And so it's a little bit like many countries faced during the era of European colonization, where the Sultan would just carry on, suddenly the French fleet would appear in the harbor in some African country, and the Sultan would conclude an agreement with the French military, and suddenly the whole place would become a French colony.
And the Constitution was kind of written so that stuff like that can't happen.
I mean, the Sultan can't simply negotiate with the foreign invaders.
You have to have a constitutional process.
The Senate has to ratify whatever is produced and the process of negotiating any agreement with a Foreign entity, extraterrestrial or not, is supposed to be done with the advice and consent of the Senate by ambassadors that they have appointed.
And, of course, this secret group in this novel just completely runs roughshod over that.
They basically say, well, this is too important to worry about the Constitution and other little frivolities of this republic.
And so...
I thought this was a possible situation.
I posed that as a what-if premise for this novel.
And it happens to coincide with some of the conspiracy theory things on the net.
And it ends up, the UFO cover-up dies a horrific, violent death in this novel.
Right.
In other words, the truth comes out.
The truth comes out.
And, you know, people will appreciate when I say that I'm very happy that your main character is a journalist.
Yes.
A female journalist, no less.
A female journalist.
Yes, who actually is...
Whoops.
Something weird has gone on with the screen.
But anyway...
That actually breaks open this cover-up in a really substantial way.
And of course, there's all kinds of trouble and she gets abducted, etc.
And you did deal with a lot of abductees, isn't that correct?
Well, I wanted to gain insight into the whole UFO scenario.
One of the groups of people you want to talk to, if you want to find out about that, is the abductees who believe they have met these aliens from outer space and can testify as to the effect of this meeting on their life.
A lot of terribly horrific things happened to them because of these encounters.
So the process of the human race kind of gaining contact with extraterrestrial intelligence has been rather traumatic for the people directly concerned and especially the fact that almost every one of them was sexually abused when they were abducted.
It is very similar to a 1950s science fiction horror movie where Mars Wants Women or something like this.
And what you realize is that the inspiration for Hollywood to make all of these movies may have been sources of information from the intelligence community.
We're basically leaking this scenario.
I refer to the UFO experience now as a wondrous nightmare or a nightmare in dreamland.
Exactly.
You know, I have to say, because a lot of people, whether they get a chance to read your novel, I hope they will, and I hope they'll read the sequel as well, which I just have started.
And I have to say that I don't think anyone, to my knowledge, at least, you know, out there, has captured quite the Overall dynamic in all the different aspects.
And the Devil's Tower is basically synonymous, in my mind, with Dulce, the Dulce base, and what we know of the Dulce base.
Archuleta Mesa.
Yeah, and that would be your inspiration for your main alien base.
One of the things I did was I talked to several people We're in no kind of in the military realm about the clash and I'll say and one of them told me he said well and this guy I know was well connected he said I'm not sure what happened he said but I've heard three different versions of this
battle in an underground laboratory and the only thing that is different Between the stories is the body count.
He said it was a real battle with people shooting each other.
And he said it had sent shockwaves through the entire community, he said, when it happened.
There's one humorous story I heard.
Jimmy Carter was president at the time when this supposed clash, adults say, happened.
Of course, Jimmy Carter got to be president, and as I portray in the book, presidents are regarded as rather dubious and transitory figures by the Magi, who are the secret council running these relations with the Greys.
The story is that Jimmy Carter sort of knew there was a UFO cover-up, but even though he was president, no one would tell him about it.
Nobody from the Pentagon, nobody from the CIA, nobody would, you know, they would simply say, oh no, Mr.
President, we don't know anything about UFOs.
And so he even wrote this rather pathetic letter to NASA asking if they had any information about UFOs, and they wrote back a polite letter saying, oh, Mr.
President, we don't know anything about it.
And so that's kind of a sad story, but it became even sadder because he was sitting in the Oval Office one day and a bunch of A high-ranking military intelligence official marched into his office and told him, Mr.
President, we have a situation that you must do something about.
And he said, what is that?
He says, well, the Greys and our people have had a firefight in one of our underground bases, which we share with them.
And he said, what?
Who?
So they had to bring him up to speed on the entire UFO situation, you know, within about five minutes.
So they explained it all to him and he reacted.
And apparently, you know, the story, the version I heard is that he actually, you know, did all the right things.
He actually reacted very well to this and he didn't panic or anything.
He just put all the military on alert.
And then apparently when Reagan got to be president, he was fully briefed.
And his reaction to the Dulce thing, I mean, and all I do is I hear stories.
I don't know whether it's true or not.
His reaction to the Dulce thing was Star Wars, SDI. That's right.
And to order basically the military to stoop down gray a spacecraft wherever they found it.
And they're not bulletproof, apparently.
And so...
Yes, and that's actually...
I just want to stop you there because that's actually an important point.
As a plasma physicist, it's nice to hear you come, you know, say that.
And obviously, you've heard that.
I'm going to assume that you haven't actually seen that yourself.
No, but...
Just basically, Washington, D.C., in those circles that I worked in, it's kind of a big rumor mill.
You hear more interesting things out in the halls than you do in the conference rooms.
And there were so many rumors and stories.
And I tried to kind of get a kind of take on On the whole situation, and that's what I tried to put in the book.
A kind of view of what we are dealing with when we deal with intelligences from outer space.
As I said, several people who apparently are far more in the know than I am, I just heard stories.
They actually get the real briefings, and they said that I've gotten a lot of interesting details correctly.
Well, yeah.
I mean, I think that you have, and I think that that is probably, you know, would sort of Confuse some of the sort of people that are supposed to be in the know because it's kind of uncanny with the way you did put it together very intelligently.
A lot of people try to put this picture together even when they use fiction and they make mistakes.
You know, they make some pretty big errors like glaring errors in judgment and also with respect to understanding the technology.
In your case, it seems that most of, you know, I have quite an eye for looking for this kind of thing and looking for sort of false moves along the way.
And it seems that you really did nail the technology quite well in most cases, what it's capable of.
And also, you also deal with a kind of a I'm going to call it a Bundy Ranch type of scenario.
So you've got people on the ground, like, you know, almost civilians, really, who are also dealing with cattle mutilations and this sort of thing and flyovers.
I mean, you really didn't leave many stones unturned.
Well, some people complained that my book was too long and...
Others praised it because it was long.
Two people called it the war and peace of the UFO fiction genre, and I was very honored by both of those people saying that because, you know, the human race's collision with the cosmos, the intelligent cosmos, is As wide as the night sky, it has to have a big book.
It has many aspects.
Everything from ranchers just struggling to make their mortgage payments every month or pay their taxes and they're losing cattle and insurance won't cover it.
And they know that the government knows what's causing the mutilations.
But the government won't help them.
Well, and then you've got also, I mean, it's an interesting dynamic because ultimately you also have a sort of a standoff between the government officials who are trying to stop the ranchers from, I guess,
interfering with the UFOs, the abducting, you know, and you also make the point that they're not just taking cattle, And mutilating them, but they're also mutilating humans.
Well, the aliens start mutilating the ranchers in this area called Morningstar, Colorado.
It's a fictional town.
There are many towns named Morningstar in the United States, but I just put a typical one.
There was a Morningstar, Virginia, that I was aware of, and it was very picturesque, and so I just kind of moved it to Colorado.
For the purposes of the novel.
Oh yeah, when things spin out of control very badly in this novel.
In the novel, the situation that begins is kind of veering towards a crisis, a secret crisis, and finally things just veer completely out of control.
Even the secret government starts losing control of events.
Right.
When various...
Well, the aliens have their own agenda as well.
I also wanted to say that you're also talking about factions of the military who are not in the know and working with other factions that are...
And also this, you also handled the sort of efforts at disinformation that get put in everywhere, right?
Oh, yeah.
Well, and the fact that the government, the right hand and the left hand of the government, because there's so much disinformation, the government starts believing its own disinformation at several points in the novel.
They...
You have parts of the government working across purposes to each other, and both of them are secret.
Right, exactly.
And some battles, you get battles between various factions of the government.
Yes, yes.
And in other words, what's interesting in this novel, in my view, aside from even the alien presence, is how In a sense, the very presence of the aliens causes the humans to actually go to battle with each other because they have such different viewpoints as to what those aliens should be allowed to be doing here on Earth in the first place.
And so it instigates a whole, you know, you might say a philosophical divide between humans that are ready to actually serve the aliens.
Yes.
Literally, you know, in order to get, you know, advantage.
Yeah, exactly.
But also to get, to get advantage, but also to get personal advantage.
So you've got, you've got what you have in, I guess maybe you use Nazi Germany as a sort of a, Because you've got collaborators, right?
You've got secret collaborators in high positions and lower positions.
It happens every time you have a collision with a foreign culture.
And people, human beings, start trying to figure the odds.
They try to figure out who's going to win, and they decide they want to be on the winning side.
I can unfortunately report to you, I had conversations with two Air Force officers who told me that in the event of an Independence Day sort of invasion by aliens from outer space, they would fight for the aliens.
Incredible.
Simply because they had higher tech, they decided they would automate.
This one fellow said, I would fight on the alien side because they have superior technology.
That is the highest loyalty this fellow was expressing.
Wow.
I was just astonished to hear that.
In fact, I put it in the novel.
I put one of the characters says this, who's an Air Force officer.
Extraordinary.
Yes.
It was one of the things that inspired me to write the novel, was that here was an Air Force officer, and he was...
I think he thought he was sort of speaking tongue-in-cheek.
I hope he was.
But he was basically joking about treason.
Right.
So I wanted to say that, you know, I don't know, are you still, you're a professor, right?
You're teaching astronomy.
I'm an anti-professor of physics and astronomy and mathematics.
Okay, so are your students reading your books?
Oh!
Some of them have looked me up on the web.
You know, I appeared on Ancient Aliens, and many of the students watch Ancient Aliens on History Channel, so they said, you were on Ancient Aliens!
And I said, no, it was my evil twin brother.
But then I finally said, yes, it was.
And then some of my students actually did look up the fact that I'd written these science fiction novels.
And, you know, I... I think part of my introduction in one class was I just sort of said, well, you know, I write science books and I write science fiction.
One of the reasons I decided I wanted to write science fiction is because science fiction has often been so prophetic.
It's as if you're channeling.
When you're writing science fiction and trying to do a good job, you end up channeling.
I mean, the muses talk to you.
I'll give you one really strange example and that is a novel called Mars Underground written by an eminent space scientist named William Hartman and it's about a hidden civilization on Mars and the person who discovers it is an Asian American journalist Who is eventually captured by the secret government forces who are keeping this secret.
And they force her to give a broadcast saying that everything is fine.
And the same thing happens in my novel.
And all I can say is I had no idea he had written this novel and had this character in there.
And so we both were listening to the same muse, as it turns out.
Isn't that strange?
It is fascinating, and that's quite an involved portion of your book.
It's also where you're depicting what goes on, the experimentation on humans on the different levels.
Oh, yeah.
And you don't, you know, you don't mince words.
You actually sort of Tell it like it is or like it could be, correct?
I'm basically relating some of the stories I heard.
My father and all my uncles fought in World War II. I'm very aware of what went on at places like Ravensbrück and various death camps where they did a lot of human experimentation.
That's what human beings did to human beings.
And, of course, here we have a situation where you have people who are not even human experimenting on human beings.
And, of course, these stories are commonly reported in the UFO community.
And the abductees almost All of them can be regarded as victims of a terrorization and, you know, sexual abuse.
Who would think that people from outer space would come here 400 light years and do things like this?
But they have.
At least that is what is reported.
Right.
I've heard enough stories from enough people and I've, you know, read enough books and talked to I read their books and concluded that, yes, this was just a horrendous scenario of human rights violations.
That's putting it very clinically Right.
No, but it is actually rather important.
It does also point to the pedophilia and human trafficking aspect, which I have several witnesses as well.
Human beings have always done this to human beings.
They just didn't talk about it.
Right.
During the Victorian era.
But what about John Mack?
You know, you seem to have quite a sensitivity towards abductees.
And I was wondering if you had read John Mack's books, if you ever met him.
I don't think I read...
I think I may have read one book by John Mack.
What shocked me was that he suddenly ended up dead after he basically, you know, he was a tenured faculty member at, was it Harvard in psychology?
Right.
In psychiatric, school psychiatry.
And he was a tenured faculty member.
It's almost as if it was considered too much for him to really start talking about this.
He suddenly ended up dead.
That's another aspect of this.
I will warn people the novel is not for the faint hearted.
This is a description of a scenario that may be real.
Yeah, I think that's very well put.
Well, I think it certainly takes a great deal of courage to do what you've done, in my opinion.
And I'm just wondering if you, you know, during the writing of all of this, getting to the root of everything, you certainly did a lot of investigation, research, whatever you want to call it.
And you also, you know, as a plasma physicist, you've been employed by the aerospace industry, so you've been really in the thick of things in some ways.
Yes.
And I'm wondering whether, you know, did you get threats during the process?
Have you been threatened since you released the books?
Anything like that?
No, that's the remarkable thing.
The people I had dealings with in the intel community, most of the reaction I got from them was very gracious and they...
They seemed like they were very pleased with me for writing the novel, which surprised me.
I have encountered some people who were kind of hostile to me, but that's part of any situation like this.
For the most part, It's almost as if the intel community read about this scenario, that a secret council governing relations with aliens would go rogue,
go completely rogue, and they thought, you know, we should be on guard against that happening and put more safeguards in place so that it couldn't happen.
And so I'm obviously still here in good health.
Right.
By the way, I did have a distinct feeling that I, you know, when I put together the book, the novel just came to me.
Well, I was stuck in traffic in Washington, D.C. because a gasoline tanker had blown up on the freeway, on the bellway.
So suddenly you're driving around the bellway.
I was on an errand for my company I was working for, and suddenly all the traffic in both lanes stops.
And you see suddenly this enormous pillar of smoke in the distance.
And just for a moment, you have no idea what is happening.
And then finally the radio comes on and tells you that, oh, there's been a terrible accident involving this gasoline tanker that's blocking both lanes on the beltway and, you know, there's a big fire and fortunately no one, the driver escaped and everyone's okay.
But that information only comes to you.
But you're stuck, for about the first five minutes, you're stuck with a mysterious situation that looks very bad and It's affecting everyone.
And, you know, I had kind of been learning all about the UFO cover-up, and I kept thinking, well, you know, what would this...
Gosh, this is some kind of emergency.
I wonder what is going on.
And then I was listening to PBS, the classical music, and this symphony called Finlandia came on.
It was very dramatic.
So I was sitting there watching this dramatic situation unfold, listening to this dramatic music, and by the time the symphony was done, Finlandia by Sibelius, suddenly the novel was in my head.
Wow.
And what was interesting then was I started writing it, and I felt this feeling like I wasn't supposed to write on it.
You know, it wasn't time yet.
And then suddenly I felt this feeling, okay, now I'm supposed to write it and get it out there.
So it was almost as if I felt like there was a, you know, it would have been far more really dangerous for me to write about it at one point, but then suddenly it became okay.
So I don't understand it.
You know, all I can tell you is that I felt, you know, this kind of compulsion to write it.
So I wrote it and got it out there and got it published.
Yeah, it's amazing.
What I wanted to say was...
Now, you wrote this book, Morning Star Pass, quite a while ago, right?
What was the year?
Yeah, it was written over the period of probably about 1997 through 2000.
And then I took...
It took me a while to figure out how to get it published and finally I did in 2003.
And I felt this enormous relief once I'd gotten it published and gotten copies.
There were copies in some bookstores where I lived and a lot of people bought it and read it and really liked it.
And so I was very validating.
And then sort of the sequel, what happened after that started kind of coming to me as it was like I was watching a movie of it or stories.
People were telling me a story.
The characters were talking to me.
This always happened to Dickens.
I mean, when I was writing this Morning Star Pass thing at one point, I was going to have this one character get killed.
And the heroine of the novel, I was writing at 2 o'clock in the morning on my coffee table, and I looked up, and there was the heroine of the novel.
And she said, if you kill off my friend, I'm not going to do a damn thing for you in the rest of this novel.
I was terrified because I realized I was kind of having a waking dream.
You know, and she looked like somebody who was just sitting right across the table from me.
So I looked down and I said, okay, the person, yeah, I'll change that.
I'll change that.
It'll be fine.
And then I looked up and she was gone.
And I realized it was time to go to bed.
Well, actually, I mean, I think...
Isn't it possible that you had some help from some aliens?
It actually sounds almost like you might have had some help from the Pleiadians on this.
Oh, well, I... Yeah, I kind of felt like there was one character who is Pleiadian, And I had the feeling like I should ask permission sort of to portray her like that, as I did in the book, and she said that was fine.
Well, you know, I like that.
It was kind of a mystical experience, but this is what happens to a lot of writers when they get into, you know, like Dickens.
His characters would appear to him and start talking to him and he would go for walks on the sidewalks of London to try and keep these voices in his head from bothering him to get away from his characters.
That didn't happen to me, but I did have some of the characters became so vivid that they almost seemed like real acquaintances to me.
There's an interesting thing that goes on, which I find you didn't make the mistake that a lot of people make with thinking that the Pleiadians are all good.
You know, you were smart about that.
And I think that's great that you understood that, you know, they actually have sort of a sharp edge to the way and they're quite militaristic in some ways.
They are peaceful, I think, but you know what I mean?
They have an undertone, which is interesting that you captured that.
Well, the part of the When you write a novel like this, you kind of have to create a universe for it to occur in.
After reading a lot of literature and talking to people, I don't think I ever talked to anyone who felt they had been abducted by what you call extraterrestrial humans, but I certainly read several accounts.
The people I talked to mostly dealt with the greys.
But I got kind of a take on that.
Part of what happens in the novel is, yes, you have some people from outer space who look just like us, who are really nice.
Who have good will toward the human race, but there is another group that is probably the most cruel and vicious aliens in the novel.
You could walk by one on the street and not notice them.
I will tell you a story.
It's not really so much a story.
I was dealing with one group of intelligence officials and one of them came to me and said, we think that there are people down here who look just like us and we want to...
Do you have any ideas on how to detect them?
You know, and I knew basically...
I was an expert on bars, and this just really surprised me that this person would be asking me for help on a problem that I, you know.
But what's interesting is because I'd written in the novel that they used canine units.
They used, you know, especially German shepherds out of white sands to guard the place because they could pick up, they could tell the difference between a human alien An extraterrestrial human and a terrestrial human easily.
And so I said, well, you should use trained dogs, you know.
Absolutely.
And the guy said, gosh, I'm amazed no one thought of that, you know.
And so he, I, you can't make this stuff up.
That's right.
I tried to capture a little bit of the absurd nature of this whole thing in the novel that a lot of the people in the government, even if they are somewhat in the know, are very baffled and confused and don't know what to do and are making it up as they go along.
Unfortunately, the people who are the villains of the piece They've figured out how they're going to handle this situation, and it's going to turn out the way they want.
The problem for some other people in the government, even who are part of the UFO cover-up, is they're not aware that this secret council has gone rogue on them.
It's no longer serving the interests of the United States or humanity.
They're basically up for themselves.
But anyway, I have this scenario where no one is guarding the guards, basically, and the guards start doing their own thing.
They decide which side they think their bread is buttered, and it's not On the human side, they think they're the best.
And the problem, as the subtitle of the book says, absolute secrecy creates absolute power.
They are finally, at least temporarily, the most powerful people on Earth.
Because they are talking to, they are on the right side of people whose technology is many, many Decades in advance of our own, and they've come here 400 light years, and they want this place.
Right.
And so they...
And, you know, the rest of the government doesn't even know they exist, but they control the space around the Earth.
But what you also have in the novel is the idea that the universe is complex, right?
It's not simple.
It's not just the human race and the greys.
It's the human race and the greys and the Pleiadians are out there and there's these other people and then there's other people besides that and this is a cosmopolitical situation.
It just happens to be in the middle of it.
And so the situation is, the exo-politics in the novel that I try to portray is complex.
It is not simple.
And in fact, when the UFO cover-up collapses in the novel, it sends shockwaves for hundreds of light years when this happens.
This is not a minor event in the galaxy at all.
This is considered a disaster by many of the species that live in the surrounding stars.
Things had been going kind of smoothly at Earth and now they're not.
They're not going smoothly at all.
Right.
Yes.
You have these groups that have their own agendas that in some ways were served by the secrecy just as the secret government and you're calling the magi or what we call majestic or goes by a variety of names obviously.
So, you know, again, kudos because you don't simplify the situation really.
You're really faced with even a more complex, in reality, of course, situation.
But I am curious whether or not you read Zachariah Sitchin and looked into his take on Enki Enlil and that sort of scenario.
Well...
Basically, Zechariah, as you know, is dealing with translations of, you know, 6,000-year-old tablets.
I'm just an Episcopalian.
I'm kind of a religious person, but I read the Bible, and the Bible...
It says, well, the sons of God decided that the daughters of Earth were very beautiful and took of them wives, whomever they chose, and the offspring of these unions were great men, about whom many legends are written.
That is in the Bible.
And that's just before the story of Noah, which was a near extinction.
The story of Noah is a depiction of a near extinction event for the human race.
Sure.
A climatic catastrophe of some sort happened, and the human race barely survives, and the human race, by the time it does survive, is part extraterrestrial.
They have intermarried with extraterrestrials, apparently, and this So I decided to use that as a major plot element.
And then, of course, there's all of these people who believe they were taken for rides on spaceships by people who look just like us.
Right.
And who are kind of extraterrestrial humans, suggesting that human race is, in fact, a super terrestrial phenomenon.
It's not just limited to Earth.
Yes.
And so it suggests immediately a very complicated situation in the cosmos.
Well, I mean, let me ask you, you know, last time I talked to you, we didn't talk about any of this because I hadn't read your book at that point.
You sent it to me afterwards, and I didn't know that you had written these books.
Now, I was wondering, with your background on Mars, you know, with to-do with Mars, Yes.
It's interesting to me that in your, maybe when you wrote the book, because it is quite a while back, I don't know if the new version, you know, the new sort of sequel, whatever you want to call that, it contains more about Mars, but you didn't really deal a lot with Mars in this initial book.
I'll just give you one hint.
The final book of the trilogy, the final chapter occurs on Mars.
All right.
Very good.
So that will be very interesting.
Because you have such, you know, even as being a physicist, this is an area of special interest to you in investigation in the real world, right?
Right.
I'll just give you one little hint of part of that that occurs on Mars.
These...
Two people end up crashing on Mars in this spacecraft and they get out and the woman says, oh my god, look!
It's an Air Force pilot and he looks up and he's amazing.
The sky is blue!
And she says, The UFO cover-up has been over for a decade, for years, but the Mars cover-up still continues.
JPL insists that the skies on Mars are red.
You can see from the Hubble telescope that there's a blue sheen around Mars, just like around Earth.
As a physicist, by the way, what you get when you get a carbon dioxide atmosphere is a blue sky, just like on Earth.
Earth's sky is not blue because it's got oxygen and nitrogen in it.
Any gas will have a blue.
It's very difficult to get any color besides blue for a sky without clouds in it.
So anyway, I just wanted to mention that.
I threw that in there just for chuckles basically.
Now I want to know, do you know Richard Hovland?
Oh yes, yes.
I worked with Richard on the original investigation of Cydonia.
Right, that's what I thought.
Yeah, he organized in my other book called Death on Mars.
I discuss, you know, him organizing the independent Mars investigation team, IMMET. And I was invited to belong to it, and we made great progress on the whole Martian problem.
And finally, we went to a conference and presented our results.
It was called the Case for Mars 2 Conference.
And our paper was quite well received, despite the fact we were talking about archaeology.
We also talked about the Martian Ocean.
I had discovered that there was probably an ocean, and that Cydonia was on the shoreline.
It was kind of the Riviera of Mars, and a good place to put a city.
It was right on the shoreline of this ancient Martian ocean, and that got a very positive response from a lot of Mars scientists.
In fact, they urged me to publish just The paper, just the part about the ocean.
And so anyway, so yes, I knew I worked quite closely with Richard during that period.
And, you know, but then the Emmett investigation ended and I ended up in Washington, D.C. and and life life proceeded.
Right.
Now, had Richard ever read your book?
Did you ever get any feedback from him on your book?
Oh, on Morningstar Pass?
No, I don't.
I never got any feedback from him on it.
I think he's been pretty much focused on Mars.
And, you know, as a scientist, I am pretty much focused on Mars.
One of the reasons I decided to write science fiction about the UFO question is because on Mars, you have a lot of scientific data.
And as a scientist, you can actually, you know, connect the dots There, you know, there is data on Mars, scientific data.
Unfortunately, in the UFO realm, and I complained to a good friend of mine, Don Ecker, I said, Don, the problem with ufology is there are no facts.
All there are are reports.
This or that, you know, gets reported, and we don't know if the report is accurate or not.
By the way, You know, in intelligence where I worked, it's often the case.
You don't know precisely how reliable information is in many cases.
Well, I would suggest that, you know, in many ways we often hear things about Russia, for example, that, you know, how can they be proven?
And one of the ways they do is use remote viewers, of course.
Right.
And then try to verify their findings on a human level, you know, on a hard, what you might call, by sending someone there who can photograph or do whatever.
Exactly.
They try to verify what the remote viewers have reported.
So what about yourself?
Have you ever been trained as a remote viewer?
No, no.
I will say that...
Parts of the novel that I was writing came to me in such a vivid way, it was almost as if I was remote viewing.
I don't know.
One of the nice things, since it's fiction and I wrote it under a pen name, I can kind of have a little sense of separation from it.
Sure.
okay someone in the chat I have a chat room alongside here and someone in the chat is asking if you think you've ever met an alien so to speak or I may have I'm not sure I've had several very vivid dreams where I've talked to extraterrestrials.
Oh yeah, I remember you saying that, yeah.
You know, I considered them very important because they were extremely vivid and my children were always in the dream with me.
As if, you know, I'm, yeah, it's quite peculiar.
You know, you end up, I'm a believer in Jung's collective subconscious and I think that The aliens themselves ended up sharing information with us, even without intending to, simply because of the collective unconscious.
They share a part of the collective unconscious with us.
So in a certain sense, by being around here, they are actually imparting information to the human race, even if they didn't intend to.
Right.
And you know what?
In your book, if I recall, at least a couple of your characters display psychic abilities also.
Oh, yes.
Yes.
So you seem to be depicting that as well.
The two, you know, the heroine, chief heroine and her friend, they're both journalists.
And they...
They are both psychic.
And I realized the characters came to me so vividly, and I realized that was part of both of them.
One of them kind of realizes she's psychic, and the other one doesn't really realize until later that she is.
And that it is not an accident that she got pulled into this whole investigation.
You know, their reactions to the whole thing are quite different, though.
One of them starts wearing a crucifix all the time.
The other one carries a necklace with a cyanide capsule around it.
Yeah, absolutely.
Because she's so afraid of being captured by the secret police of the secret government.
Right.
And so it's a, you know, it's That's the sort of reactions you get from different people, different personalities react to the same, but they both are determined to see the thing through.
In terms of your, I guess, the reception to the book in a larger sense, I mean, you and I have been in touch actually for not that long, maybe less than six months, I would say.
And so I'm wondering, have you done many radio shows about your book?
Have you been interviewed about your book?
Oh, yes.
Yes, many times.
Okay.
Okay.
Especially when the book came out, it got a lot of attention in UFO circles, and so I did do a lot of interviews on it, and some important people in the whole UFO community read it,
and several of them remarked that it was very frightening, and that But also several of them remarked it was the first thing they had read about the whole UFO situation that made sense to them.
It explained things to them that they didn't understand before.
That made me feel really good.
You said that you would certainly be interested in having these books made into movies.
Have you had any overtures from Hollywood in this regard?
I've had a couple of overtures, but the process of making movies, you have to have a screenplay first.
Especially if you have a long novel, unless somebody sits down and is inspired to write a screenplay from it, the screenplay is really the first step in getting a movie made.
So, a screenplay has been written, and it is being, there's somebody out in Hollywood interested in it right now, so we're just waiting to see what that, we have a couple, I'm pursuing a couple options, but one person has it now, and we'll wait and see what they think.
Very good.
Hopefully they'll like it, and what's interesting is that, you know, The screenplay, you know, of course, is a kind of condensed version of the book, but I think it carries all of the same passionate intensity.
And, you know, certainly when the UFO cover-up collapses, the explosion of violence that happens beyond anyone's expectations is captured very well in the screenplay.
I certainly don't want that to be the only thing that people, you know, the only impression people get from a movie made about it is, wow, this thing really, when this thing collapses, it really blows up.
It doesn't collapse, it explodes.
Because of the The conflict of, you know, the human race.
There's a bunch of people basically betraying the human race.
They're betraying the country, and they're betraying the entire human race.
And other people then find out about it.
And so it doesn't end well.
But we'll see how it all works out.
But I do believe that we made a new movie.
Great.
Someday I'll be sitting there munching popcorn, watching it.
All right, well, let's hope that those are prophetic words, and you're right.
I mean, I think there's very good potential for that, and so I guess we'll see what happens.
Now, in terms of what I'd like to do is talk a little bit about the sequel, just because that's a new book that's coming out, right?
I'll tell you something really fascinating about the sequel.
And it gets to the kind of slightly spooky and prophetic nature of writing fiction, is that I wrote the novel, the sequel, and basically it's, you know, the collapse of the UFO Cup is a terrible explosion of violence, and there's an attempted coup d'etat.
In Washington, D.C. And tens of thousands of people get killed.
And so one of the characters wakes up in a hospital and cannot figure out how they got there.
And that happened to me!
In a slightly less intense sense, I had rheumatic fever when I was young, and one of my heart valves was damaged, so I had to go in to get that.
That started giving me trouble.
I had walking pneumonia.
Well, anyway, so I got into suddenly an escalating health situation and finally ended up at the hospital, and the doctor said, oh, we're going to replace your heart valve.
And I said, oh, when?
Next week?
And they said, oh, no, right now.
Wow.
And I can remember signing the consent forms and everything after that is a blank.
Then I woke up in a hospital room with, you know, recovering from open heart surgery.
And by the way, I received excellent care.
I'm doing just great.
I'm a miracle of modern medicine.
But what was really funny was I realized I had hysterical amnesia about Everything that happened basically after I signed the consent form.
I don't remember any preparation for the operation or talking, you know, all of that was just a complete blank.
By the way, when I got my wisdom teeth out, I remember, you know, them asking me to count back from 100 and stuff like this and me doing that.
I don't remember any of that for this heart surgery.
It's a complete blank.
Okay, now how long ago was that?
Oh, that happened to me about six months ago.
I've been making a great recovery, but what's interesting was I had all of the same kind of processes that I had written in the novel Happening to one character and then suddenly I was in the hospital.
Right, yes.
Going through the same thing.
That's very interesting.
Yes, absolutely.
So you wrote that into a novel years before it actually happened to you.
Yes, yes.
Fascinating.
Now I want to know is to rule the night is this the sequel or is this another another one?
It is the sequel, yes.
Okay.
It is the same characters and those who survived the first one, first novel, and it is the middle book of a trilogy, so the third book of the trilogy will be coming out in a couple months, and so I will have a science fiction trilogy plus a prequel.
Okay, so...
The Tool the Night...
I've got it on the screen for people here.
This is on Amazon, and it says it came out on the 20th of September.
So you have another book that's going to come out, you're saying, in a couple months?
Right.
It's already written.
I'm just doing final editing on it.
All right.
What happened was the...
The writing of the sequels kind of was one continuous process.
I basically wrote one sequel.
I wrote the two last books of the trilogy, I kind of wrote as part of one process.
I was in the middle of telling a big story to myself, and so I wrote the whole thing.
And so then I, you know, I took book two.
And once I had written both books and, you know, written the final chapters on the final book, then I went back and, you know, did the legwork of editing and, you know, getting everything polished and everything for the second book.
And now I'm in the process for doing that for the third book.
The second book came out first as a Kindle edition and now it has come out as a paperback.
So you can actually, if you do a search to rule the night UFO war paperback, you can pop that up also.
Okay, very good.
I will say I'm very pleased with myself that I finished this process.
And in the sequel novel, I have a heroine, or almost two heroines, and the heroines are kind of the modern female hero, but they're just human beings.
They're not...
The heroine...
The chief heroine is not Superwoman at all.
Right.
She...
She wakes up in the hospital and can't remember...
Yes, she's...
She can't remember how she even got there.
And she...
She's suffering from a terrible case of post-traumatic stress from the events of the...
I hope I'm not giving away...
I don't want to spoil it.
I treated her...
I actually talked to...
If you live long enough, you talk to people who've been through some very bad stuff.
And had to recover from it, and even if after they recover from the physical aspects, you know, they're good as new physically, but the emotional toll that some of these experiences take on them take a lot longer to get over than the physical aspects.
And I was just reading about Audie Murphy, who was the most decorated soldier of World War II, and, you know, he looked like a movie star.
And he got all these medals and he then became a movie star.
And that was all wonderful.
War hero, movie star, etc., etc.
But he can't sleep at night except he keeps a loaded pistol under his pillow.
He was tormented by his war experiences till the day of his death.
In those days, they couldn't treat it very well.
Even my father, who was a combat veteran of World War II, he was quite wounded emotionally by a lot of the things that he had seen and been a part of.
He was part of the bomber squadron, and three-quarters of the bomber squadron he was part of was shot down.
There he was bombing German cities, and he knew they were hitting all these women and children.
He knew it, but no one would talk about it.
It was the war.
He was, I consider, a very emotionally healthy person, but he was slightly wounded by all of it.
My Uncle Barney was in the combat infantry in Patton's army.
He was in the Battle of Bulge and we never even knew it until a year from his death when he had a heart attack.
He talked a little bit about it.
He would never talk about the war.
Just never.
The only thing he talked about was meeting the Russian army at Elbe River in the middle of Germany and the Russian army soldiers handing out vodka to all the American troops.
He had one happy memory.
So I try and capture that in the character, the heroine who has survived the collapse of the UFO cover-up and is kind of lost, at least for a while.
she has to recover from the experience of being swept up in that collapse and right you know she well I don't I think That's part of the drama of the book.
But the other part of the drama, by the way, is that in the novel, To Rule the Night, we talked about human reaction to the fact that a bunch of human beings discovered that another bunch of human beings are settling around the river, essentially.
Under the guise of the UFO cover-up, and this results in a very violent reaction.
But what really happens then is the cosmopolitical shockwaves of the collapse of the UFO cover-up.
Believe it or not, when the UFO cover-up collapses, it sends shockwaves around the local neighborhood of the galaxy.
Right.
Well, I think that's very good.
And say, oh my god, now they'll be hell to pay.
And that's one of them even says that, basically, you know, in an alien sort of way.
Well, I appreciate that.
Now, what I want to do is actually, we don't have a whole lot more time, and I've been keeping you for a while, but I want to ask you, if you heard Trump's recent announcement about...
Oh, yes, about going back to the moon.
Yeah, and supposedly maybe even Mars, with complete non...
Acknowledgement, of course, of the fact that we are already there on both places and that, well, and that the ones who actually are in charge of the moon...
Well, it makes it sort of a sure thing then, doesn't it?
Well, I know this is going to succeed because we're already there.
Yeah, exactly.
But what I'm wondering is, you know, in other words, prolonging the cover up, that's the indicators here, at least on the surface to the public.
So it is interesting.
What is your theory?
I'm assuming it's a theory, but you can tell me what you think you know as well with regard to how much Trump knows and how much he's read in.
I would guess that as opposed to a character like Jimmy Carter, who basically was sitting in the Oval Office, you know, kind of clueless, I think...
I think...
President Trump has been read into this program and understands.
He's also been around the block a few times.
I mean, he's a New York real estate developer.
Of course they know about the ins and outs of the UFO cover.
I'm just kidding.
I don't really know.
Well, they've had aliens probably rent from them.
Well, there you go.
Yeah.
And you remember the movie...
Well, maybe some of his best friends are aliens, you know?
Well, nothing would surprise me anymore.
My students were complaining to me about how baffling politics was in this country.
And I said, well...
I said, yeah, they are baffling.
I said, I will disagree with you.
But I said, I remember seeing...
Lee Harvey Oswald shot on nationwide TV when I was eight years old.
And that was pretty intense, too.
So, at least, you know, things have actually been crazier.
If that was possible.
Well, maybe so, maybe not.
I mean, maybe the best is yet to come.
Oh, yeah.
Well, I think, to me, Saying that we're going back to the moon is a very positive statement, given what, you know, what I've heard.
It means that we are basically going to occupy the moon.
And that indicates that we have, it's been, let's say hypothetically, that Roswell is what we believe it was.
And that was 70 years ago.
And we're still here running things.
Someone said, oh no, the aliens have actually taken over and are running the Earth.
We just don't know it.
And I said, well, they're doing a really bad job Well, that may be by design.
It may be, but anyway, you know...
I mean, if you read your own book, you know...
Oh, yeah.
Well, in the book, you know, the aliens don't have to deal just with the United States.
They have to deal with, like, the Russians, who have a much different viewpoint on all of this.
Yeah.
All of the Russian government is secret.
As a result, in the novel, the Russian government deals with the aliens in a far more logical manner than the U.S. government because in the U.S., half the government doesn't know anything about what the other half is doing, whereas in Russia, the KGB is running everything.
They know all about the aliens.
So I just regard it as rather interesting.
You know, you have to kind of wonder what criteria are in place so that some presidents are apparently read into this program and some are not.
That's right.
Bill Clinton, it was said...
Was in the same situation as Jimmy Carter, and he wanted very badly to be read into the program, and I don't know whether he was or not completely at the end.
All I can tell you is one of his associates, he tasked one of his, Webb Hubble.
I actually got to meet Webb Hubble one day, I ended up riding up in an elevator with him, and he had just gotten out of prison.
Webb Hubble was suddenly arrested for bad charges to his account as a lawyer back in Little Rock, Arkansas, of all things, and sent to prison.
But what Bill Clinton had done was tasked Webb Hubble with finding out if there was a UFO cover-up.
Webb Hubble, his tough lawyer, his former defensive lineman and looked like it at Arkansas, he was prowling around Washington, D.C., basically trying to gather intelligence on UFO cover-up, and then suddenly he was arrested and shipped off to prison.
Right.
Very convenient.
There's a moral into that story, isn't there?
So apparently somebody sent a message to Bill Clinton that they didn't like him sending Webb Hubble around snooping around.
But all I know is that Webb Hubble ended up working for a prison reform organization in the same building that I was working as a physicist.
So I remember, you know, We simply just rode up in an elevator several floors together and we didn't say anything to each other.
I just realized he had just gotten out of prison and felt sorry for him.
He looked like somebody who had just gotten out of prison.
So there you go.
His real crime was snooping around trying to find out something For the president about the UFO cover-up without permission.
Right.
So things have actually been a little crazier than they are now, if that were possible.
And of course, there's now the documents that have been released suggesting that John F. Kennedy was attempting to share what the United States knew about UFOs with the Russians.
To kind of come up with a joint plan of action with the Russians.
And that happened just before he was assassinated.
And this is, of course, raised concerns that if there was a secret government managing relations with aliens, that perhaps they did not want that Kennedy...
John F. Kennedy was a victim of a power struggle with them.
But I don't know.
In fact, one of the stories I've heard in Washington, D.C., and you'll find this, remember the episode in Dallas called Who Shot J.R.? Yes.
J.R. Gooding was shot, and there were so many suspects, because J.R. had been such a rascal.
There were so many people who wanted to kill him.
That the police didn't barely, you know, they had to rent an auditorium to try and interview all the possible suspects.
And, you know, it was one of his ex-girlfriends, apparently, a jilted girlfriend who apparently shot him.
And they say that the Dallas episode, who shot J.R. And J.R. was, of course, shot in Dallas.
And...
That was really about the Kennedy assassination.
If you understood John F. Kennedy's real life, then you knew that there were a whole bunch of people, unfortunately, who could have been likely suspects in the murder of John F. Kennedy.
And I guess, so one does not have to have a UFO cover-up to Imagine that somebody within our government may have plotted to kill John F. Kennedy.
Well, yes.
And his assassin, at least publicly suspected assassin, then assassinated, so he couldn't...
Yes, absolutely.
So, in terms of the books that you've written here, and you're just about done with, you know, you said you're putting finishing touches on the one, so that will be the end, and then maybe you'll get this to be made into a movie.
Oh, that would be the great goal, and I think it would make, well...
It would be basically a cycle of movies similar to Star Wars.
Sure.
What about the role of China?
Because one of your characters is actually I believe, is she Chinese?
I think she is.
She's Chinese-American.
I have one humorous one humorous it turns out the The two women who are both newscasters and they work at the same place.
They're kind of partners in crime.
And they end up going out to visit the ranchers.
And one of the ranchers asks Cassandra Chen, the main heroine, where she's from.
And she says she's from San Diego.
And the rancher says, no, I mean originally.
And she...
It's a tight little smile and says, I'm originally from San Diego.
And then so he turns and asks the blonde where she's from.
And she says, I'm from Kiev.
I'm actually from Kiev.
And he says, where's that near?
And she says, Moscow.
And he says, Idaho?
And she says, yeah, that's me.
It's a potato festival.
Yeah, it's a nice twist.
It's a nice twist.
The woman who looks very exotic is actually the all-American girl.
The woman who looks like the girl next door is actually the foreigner.
Right.
And who just, you know, ditched her accent, ditched her name, ditched everything about Ukraine when she came to the United States.
And, you know, is basically a skillful chameleon.
And so anyway, so I don't know.
It's odd.
You know, these things just come to you.
And so I decided to have, when I wrote the novel, I had this heroine, and I imagined her as Asian-American, which is, interestingly enough, the same as in this other novel by this other scientist.
And so it's all very odd.
So you didn't have, because you don't really write about the role of the Chinese in the, as I recall, in The Morning Star.
No, no, well, I want you to understand something.
I was married to a Chinese woman for seven years.
Uh-huh.
You know, she was a Chinese-American.
And what was interesting from being, you know, married to her and getting to her family is they had no contact whatsoever.
China.
They regarded the People's Republic of China as a completely foreign entity, just like we do.
They were part of the prosperous merchant kind of culture of Southeast Asia that came there You know, it was in Malaysia and Singapore and Australia, and they were part of the British Empire, basically.
Right.
And so they...
To be Chinese is very...
Especially to be Chinese-American, you know, it can be a very complicated affair.
It depends on where the...
You know, the...
the group of Chinese you come from, the country of origin.
You can still, you can be Chinese, but you can actually be from a various country and reflect that culture strongly as opposed to Chinese culture.
I'm sure.
But what I'm actually wondering about is whether I, you know, again, haven't read the new book, but I'm wondering if, because in the original book that I'm reading, The Morning Star Pass, If you don't really deal internationally, With how other countries are dealing with the aliens and so on and so forth.
In other words, it might have been too big.
Your novel is already covering a lot of ground.
So did you change that later on?
Well, I dealt in Morningstar Pass primarily with the Americans, the British, and the Russians.
But in the second novel, no, the Chinese are quite important.
Okay.
As well as several other countries.
Because you find that the human race, every different country has its own agenda.
On this whole UFO thing.
Well, yeah, there are relationships with various races as well.
You know, North Korea, I just, you know, to choose one out of the group, the relations we are having with North Korea and the, well, whatever you want to call that, the problems, and what I've been told by a whistleblower is, in essence, we're already at war with North Korea.
They just aren't sharing that information with the public.
You know, I'm told there's an agency, you know, there's an alien contingent that is involved with the North Koreans allowing them to be so-called stronger on the playing field than they normally would be.
Well, that wouldn't surprise me a bit.
The Earth is a complicated place, and so is the universe.
And so, once you end up with various factions out in outer space, they could actually pick and choose various, especially, you know,
kind of a rogue state, North Korea, which, you know, doesn't According to stories I've heard, we've asked the Chinese to put more pressure on the North Koreans, and the Chinese say, well, they're crazy.
We're dealing with a crazy person.
It's very difficult.
You can't just tell us, oh, go make them behave when we can't do it.
And they say, and not only that, they're right on our border.
If we miscalculate, we're going to have 10 million Koreans storming across the border into China looking for food.
And, you know, you have to...
So what I'm trying to...
The picture I get of the cosmos is that the rest of the cosmos is just as screwed up as this planet is.
Maybe even worse.
And, you know, we tend to think that anybody in outer space has got all of their stuff together.
Let's be polite to say they got all their stuff in one sock.
And that isn't, I don't think that's true at all.
Right.
I do agree with you there.
I'm going to have to wind this up.
It's been a wonderful being on your program.
Thank you.
No, it's been wonderful having you.
And I have one last question for you.
Okay.
Have you heard about this supposed...
It kind of looks...
Well, now they're saying actually it's a craft.
They think it's a broken craft or something, but it's very narrow, long...
It looks a little like an asteroid.
It's a very odd object that came into the solar system and made a close pass by the Earth.
I thought it was deeply strange that here...
A one-in-a-million sort of thing.
This thing comes from outer space because of its orbit.
I mean, as a physicist, you can tell from its orbit this thing is not part of our solar system.
It comes from outer space.
And it's got like a 10 to 1...
It's 10 times longer than it is wide.
There's no asteroid like that.
That's...
That's...
And it's called something very strange.
It's called Umuma.
Yeah, they gave it a weird name, a very alien-sounding name.
That's good.
And it made it close past by Earth.
I was originally kind of suspicious of that, but apparently it flew past the Earth, and that's how we discovered it.
If it had flown, you know, past, you know, out some other part of the solar system, we might not have seen it, but it flew past Earth.
Not that far away, only about six times farther than the distance of the moon, which is pretty close.
Right.
Well, I'm trying to show it.
I'm actually trying to put it on the screen.
How close in lunar distances did it pass us?
And they're calling it cigar-shaped, and well, they're calling it an interstellar object, and now there's a team, they say, of alien hunting scientists will scan the comet.
This is all in the data mail.
Yeah, they originally called it a comet, and then it became apparent, no, this thing is no comet.
Right.
So I was basically thinking this is a great way to have sort of what you might call a sort of a soft disclosure, which is the kind of thing they're always looking for.
You know what I'm saying?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, if you saw the movie, what was the movie, Arrival?
Yes.
Yeah.
I got the distinct impression sitting there in the theater that, okay, we're getting closer.
To, you know, real disclosure.
Yes.
This movie felt almost like we were sitting there watching something, watching the news and a news broadcast.
So, yeah, this, well, one of the other things I got from writing this novel is the fact that accidents and And bad luck happened even to aliens.
And this thing looks for all the world like somebody's miscalculation.
Because this thing looks like it's dead.
It doesn't look like a spaceship.
If it was a spaceship, it's dead now.
And Well, I mean, I appreciate...
No, no, I want to ask you, I mean, I appreciate your characterizing it as looking dead, but, well, I mean, a Trojan horse might look dead as well, but is it really dead?
In other words, what is...
Well, here's what I think happened.
Why are you saying it's dead?
What are you basing that on, I guess?
Well, it's tumbling...
Yes, okay, and I think that that's a good point.
It doesn't look like it's flying, and it's flying in just a ballistic course.
It could be the wreckage from some space battle, you know?
How about that?
Yeah, fair enough.
Well, let me ask you to be...
Some of the people out there, they got in a little disagreement.
And, you know, this is one of the pieces of wreckage for those disagreements.
I know, but it's an interesting choice because, you know, I don't know your point of view but my point of view based on my whistleblower testimonies is that we are surrounded by craft and they're so prolific and that their items like this are probably the solar system is full of it.
There have been battles for ages.
Why choose this particular one and that's what I'm interested in is why this one You know, at this time, so to speak.
You know what I'm saying?
So I'm wondering if you can be a little...
Wait one second.
Can you be a little prophetic here and tell me whether you think...
They're looking for some kind of signals, radio signals, this kind of type of thing.
Do you think that they are going to so-called find something, you know, very conveniently here?
Well...
Here is my take on that.
Yes, there's going to be more and more disclosure.
Part of the disclosure has already occurred.
I mean, they found bacterial remnants in a meteorite from Mars, and they told everybody about it.
And it was the government who told everybody about it.
And the people who attacked them ferociously It was not other parts of the government, it was academia, believe it or not, showing that, you know, there's a lot of small-mindedness even out in supposedly universities.
Yeah, well, academia, I mean, that whole area is actually notorious for that kind of small, I would say, even.
Yeah, so they, I mean...
So, we, and by the way, I've reviewed their research.
They found, they found bacterial remnants from Mars.
In fact, they didn't just find them in that one meteorite.
They've now found them in all the meteorites from Mars.
And of course, if you ever see...
All of them have bacterial remnants, it turns out.
Well, did you see the movie Life?
Um...
I think I missed that one.
All right, well, bacteria remnants in this movie Life that seem pretty innocuous suddenly grow, start growing, and take over a spaceship.
Oh, well, that's, you know, I think one of my books, it was called Life and Death on Mars, we proposed the idea that, in fact, you know, it's one of my earliest books on Mars.
Dead Mars, Dying Earth, we proposed that a large impact on Mars may have sent a shower of rock full of living things to Earth and resulted in what's called the Precambrian Explosion, where suddenly life on Earth just exploded in all of these strange new things, forms and And it may have been actually an invasion from Mars, you know, by Martian bacteria.
Right.
And so we may be the result of an invasion from Mars of bacteria a long time ago.
So if you read the book Death on Mars, my own belief...
We found a dead civilization on Mars.
And then we found that there was a nuclear weapon signature.
Massive nuclear weapon signature.
When we found the massive nuclear weapon signature on Mars, we reported it to the Pentagon.
And we reported it to the people who were keeping us under surveillance.
They kept us under surveillance for so long, we finally figured out that they were keeping us under surveillance.
So we just said, here, look what we found.
And they went and reported it to whoever they reported it to.
And six months later, through channels, the answer came back, why don't you publish this?
They wanted us to publish.
Right.
So I first proposed that there were natural nuclear reactors on Mars, and I actually halfway believed it.
But it was a good way to get it out in the literature.
And then finally, no, this is nuclear weapons signature.
This is not due to any kind of natural nuclear reactor.
So finally, I published the book, Death on Mars, which lays out everything.
It says, you know, there's a dead civilization on Mars.
It looks like it was primitive.
And then somebody came along and nuked them.
Well, according to Bariska...
And I think that is what the government wants to come out.
Okay.
Because finding a dead primitive humanoid civilization on Mars is the softest landing possible for the human race.
Yeah, I hear you.
And actually Hoagland, I think, thinks the same thing.
Well, he's a smart guy and, you know, there's a number of scenarios for disclosing to the public One of them is, of course, the Klingon battle fleet arrives in orbit around the Earth and announces that we're now part of the Klingon Empire.
Please pay your taxes on time.
Right.
You know, and that's one way that we find out that we're not alone in the universe.
The other way it is broken that they break the news to us is they find, oh, look, we found this dead civilization on Mars.
And they're dead and they're primitive.
And no, did we mention they're dead?
Yeah, I know.
They've been dead for a long time.
And oh yes, yeah, somebody nuked them apparently.
So give us a big defense budget so we can defend against those people.
Right.
And so it doesn't happen here.
And yeah, but there's a dead civilization on Mars.
They're dead.
Yes.
They can't hurt you.
They're dead and they're primitive.
Yeah.
And that's the best way to break it to the human race.
Okay, I appreciate that.
Actually, you know, they're anything but primitive.
But I have to say that Bariska, I don't know if you know who Bariska is, the boy from Mars.
Yeah, I interviewed him in Russia.
And I can tell you that recently, seven, no less than seven British newspapers, this is just substantiating your thoughts, stole my footage, did not give us credit, and reposted it.
And when I've asked, I've actually gone after them.
And only, I think, two...
I talked to MI6, and they said that...
They told me to tell you, Carrie, who do you think you're dealing with, ma'am?
All right.
Well, thank you.
We do what we like.
I really do appreciate that.
Exactly.
So, so far, I don't think I've seen a dime, even though some of them got to the point where they were going to pay me for using my footage.
Also told me to tell you, and you bloody well won't see a dime.
Or you won't see carving from us.
And after the fact, you know, violating my copyright, etc., etc.
And, you know, so that's really what's going on there.
All right, look, it's been great to have you on the show.
I think you're a very smart man.
I really recommend your books.
And I think that you're on to something here.
And I hope Hollywood agrees with me.
And if they want disclosure, you're a good guy to sort of help pave the way to get people to understand how the pieces fit together in kind of an understandable way.
You've got it limited enough, but at the same time wide enough where it's covering a lot of the gamut.
So, you know, kudos for that.
And you have a lot of credibility as well.
You know, being a plasma physicist who's worked, you know, in a number of capacities, etc., etc., you know, you're in a great position to be someone who writes such a book.
And I think that it's going to be an interesting story from here on out.
So thank you again for coming on the show.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's a great honor.
No problem.
And this will go onto my YouTube channel.
You can watch your own video and share it with your friends.
Okay?
I'll talk to AMI6 people and see if they can get you a little bit of money.
I would really appreciate that.
They're very tight-fisted, though.
Their budgets are always very tight.
Well, all they have to do is ask their American cousins over at Menwith Hill and see if they can't come up with something.
How's that?
You know, it could be just as simple as that, Carrie.
MI6 decided they wanted your stuff to be spread around, so they just got it.
Well, because it contains...
There was about five minutes of discussion in somebody's office about should we pay her something, and they said we bloody hell don't have any money for paying her.
We're barely keeping the lights on here.
Yeah, we're only the Illuminati.
Well, we're only the ones with the purse strings holding the purse strings of the secret space program.
I know.
You know what I'm saying?
I mean, in the end of the day, what happens in the Barisca interview is he says they had a nuclear war on Mars.
Yeah.
So that's right in keeping with your scenario.
You see what I'm saying?
They're always seeding this information piece by piece and now they're letting me interview you and this will go out and have a lot of impact in theory.
Very good.
I believe it's all part of the process that is supposed to occur.
Okay.
All right.
So thank you again, everyone, for watching and listening.
And I'm going to let you go and wind up the show with the credits, etc., the way we do it here.
All right?
Okay, Kiara.
You have a wonderful evening.
Okay.
Thank you so much.
Bye-bye.
Okay, so that's the show for tonight.
And I just want to say that we're going to have Michael Tellinger on tomorrow in the daytime at 1 p.m. Pacific.
Pacific time.
He's going to be talking about the Ubuntu project, and I've done a documentary with Michael.
I went to South Africa several years ago and filmed a documentary.
That was the early days of Ubuntu, the Ubuntu project, which is all about A whole new way of living and sharing our creativity and not having a need for money as such.
There's a lot of information.
You can get the links on my website if you're more interested and want to find out more about Ubuntu.
We'll be talking about that and the stone circles of South Africa, including Adams Calendar, which is quite a significant site, really equal to Stonehenge or the pyramids in its own way, and most likely a time travel portal.
So, that'll be tomorrow at 1pm.
I hope you enjoyed tonight.
Please do donate.
Project Camelot is very much in need of funds to keep us surviving.
And the donate button is on my website, projectcamelot.tv.
We changed the URL. It's still ProjectHamletPortal.com as well.
Both of them get to the same place, but we were finding out we were blocked in several countries under the portal URL, so we changed and added a new one.
Which is even simpler, projectcamelot.tv.
And you can always email me at carrie at projectcamelot.tv if you have any questions or want to share some information or you know a whistleblower, etc.
So thanks again for sharing these fabulous interviews with us and, you know, Take care and have a great night.
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