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Dec. 6, 2017 - Project Camelot
02:35:58
CODY SNODGRES RE BLACK OPS WITH OLE DAMMEGARD
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Time Text
Is everybody still on the line?
Yes, we are.
We're running the credits right now and if you stand by we'll bring you on.
you on.
Okay.
Hi, everyone.
I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot, and hopefully we are now broadcasting.
We've had nothing but trouble with this situation.
So I guess because Cody is a whistleblower and he has been out doing interviews, I guess they have now marshaled their efforts to try to keep him silent.
So that's what the problem is that we're having here and the phones aren't working.
The new Skype is just dreadful.
We've had to re-download an older version of Skype in order to get these guys on the phone at the same time here.
So welcome Cody and Ole.
Are you there with us now?
Cody's here, yes.
Excellent.
Okay, so we are broadcasting live.
I'm being told that people can hear us.
I hope you can hear me okay.
Can you hear me okay, Cody?
Your signal's five by five.
Excellent.
Okay.
So I'm going to read just a brief introduction written by Ole about this situation.
So Ole says, In 1994, he was offered US $1 million by the CIA to bomb the Alfred P. Murrow building in Oklahoma City.
When he turned it down, he went from being an asset to a liability, and the agency Then tried to kill him on several occasions.
He's died twice, but the hospital staff managed to bring him back to life.
And we are going to be talking about Cody's experience with black ops and money laundered through the Clinton and Bush crime families.
And that is on my website on projectcamelot.tv in case you want to reread that.
And in theory, you're going to be aware of this because you're watching us live here.
This will go onto YouTube after we end the show.
So I want to welcome both of you.
What I'd like to do first, Olay, could you please explain how you got in touch with Cody, how he contacted you with regard to coming forward?
Well, about a year ago, I believe it's a year ago now, I was contacted by Cody by email, and he was telling me this incredible story about the Alfred P. Murray building, how he turned it down, and how he had been in black ops for many, many years.
And that he was, after all of these years, seriously considering taking a step forward.
But he knew that the risks were very, very high, and he...
He was just reaching out, trying to find a way to do this, to come forward without being killed first.
And so I did what I could to support him morally because I think, and I know what he's up against, so I think it's extremely brave what he's doing and extremely important as well.
And then over the months here while Cody was setting up sort of like a safety net with information spread out in different locations around the world with a so-called dead man's grip.
Also getting medical examinations by doctors and so on that could totally confirm that he was at good health, not suicidal, all of these type of things that could help protecting him once he took the step out.
And then about a week ago the time had come and since then what we've been trying to do is get Cody on as many shows as possible to get this information out there off his shoulders and out there in the open as soon as possible to as many sources as possible for his security because at this moment he's up in the mountains in Colorado more or less he was more or less alone to start with now he's got bodyguards around him That are helping them and so on.
So this is where we are today and this is why we are on Project Camelot for you.
Okay, very good.
So what I'm going to be doing here is just trying to put them on the screen so it makes some sense when you hear them.
What we have is, just to clarify, we've got both guys on a phone call.
They're not able to go into Skype.
They're not able to go into any computer Uh, it appears as far as getting the sound to work.
So that's why we're using, uh, these phone phones, uh, as part of this, this broadcast so you can understand, uh, that.
So what, um, this is fascinating.
Now, Cody, can you explain why you decided to come forward at this time?
Well, I've been waiting a long time, uh, for this and I had to wait till President Clinton was out of office and also Hillary Clinton was out of Secretary of State and they didn't have any more power in the government anymore that way you don't have to face the government power just their black ops hit teams basically and I decided to step forward at this time I feel like there's a spiritual awakening That
there's a big swell of truth seekers and people that are standing up now and moving forward.
I hope that by me standing up and doing what I'm doing, it will inspire the other people in the black ops community and other keeping secrets to step forward and stop the corruption.
Our country is at a crossroads and The forces of life and the truth have to stand up now or we're going to lose our country forever.
Okay.
Well, can you explain how how they how this came down as far as you being offered a million dollars to to basically bomb, you know, a U.S. building?
And why did they did they you know, I know you've been on so many radio shows and whatever, and I don't want to repeat everything that you've already said on other shows.
So I'd like to go at this a little bit differently.
I'd like to find out why you think they wanted to bomb that building, and when you turned them down, who did they go to?
Okay.
Why I think they bombed the building, I know why it was.
And I have to go back in time just a little bit.
During the Iraq-Iran War, Saddam Hussein was a CIA asset back then.
But Iran enjoyed a 10-to-1 infantry advantage over the Iraqis.
And so Donald Rumsfeld, the Secretary of State, went over there and gave him satellite intel and so forth.
And Saddam, after that war, he invaded Kuwait.
And the Saudis didn't like that.
It made them real nervous.
Oil prices could be disrupted if he went ahead and invaded Saudi Arabia.
So they put pressure on our government.
And George Bush and the guys, they all decided to go in in Desert Storm, which was 1991 in January.
Now, the problem is a lot of Americans don't know That during that war, the Iran-Iraq War, we were allied with Saddam and we gave him the AIM strain of anthrax, which is a weaponized form of anthrax made at Fort Detrick, Maryland.
It has a small spore size and a different protein coat to make it weaponized, make it more infected.
We needed an anthrax vaccine because They didn't have time to go in there and kick Saddam out of Kuwait.
They had a whole lot of problems with it.
It was a six-month course of vaccines.
You have one a month.
What they did was do a crash vaccine, make it down to one month, and they used squalene.
They had BioPort produce some of that.
It was an experimental vaccine.
They waived FDA testing, so they gave it to all our troops in a big hurry.
Well, the autoimmune problems related to this were causing a lot of things.
They later called it Gulf War Syndrome.
And to make a long story short, I mean, how much time do we have here?
We have as much time as you need.
Oh, oh, okay.
So our troops were getting these shots and going over there.
There's 28 nations in the coalition to kick him out, Saddam out.
And so our guys started getting sick over there.
And then another thing that happened in the desert storm was that was the first war that the U.S. had used depleted uranium munitions, specifically the 238 uranium.
It's mildly radioactive.
And the two primary ordinances they used that in were the A-10 warthogs, They were the tank busters, the jets, and they used the 30-millimeter chain guns with depleted uranium rounds.
They also used the M1A1 tank sabot rounds.
They had about an 8- or 9-inch long column of depleted uranium, and they came out of the tank barrels at about 5,200 feet per second.
Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols were also...
In the same platoon, and Timothy McVeigh had gotten a brown star for confirmed tank kills over there.
But anyway, these munitions were so powerful.
They'd never been used before.
And so they were forming new compounds.
They have enough kinetic energy to blow an 11-ton T-54 Soviet type, like, you know, way up in the air.
And so...
They were forming fireballs, and there were new compounds being formed, uranium dioxide for instance, and the particulate size of those compounds were about 4 microns.
Now our standard MOC gear in the US, the NBC gear they were using, went down to 10 microns.
So what was happening?
This had never been tried before in battle, and these new compounds were getting up, our soldiers were breathing them, they were passing right through the filters and the equipment, Low-level radiation generally accumulates in various areas of the human body.
One of them is the thyroid, and the other one is the ovaries or the testicles for men.
What happened, our soldiers got done over there, and they were starting to filter back and come back to the States.
They had all kinds of problems, medical problems.
So, Cody, let me just stop you there because I'm wondering, are you saying their medical problems came from the depleted uranium?
They came from several things.
When they received the anthrax shots, these were experimental shots.
They used an adjunct called squalene.
It's like charcoal.
Now, normally in the flu shots we use over here, they have pterosol, which was a mercury-based adjunct.
An adjunct is a chemical that enhances the autoimmune response of the body, okay?
And so then everyone was bitching about the mercury, so they switched to aluminum-based adjuncts.
But in this particular shot, they had to use an adjunct that had basically never been tried before.
They had to use something very powerful because anthrax is a very virulent strain.
And it normally takes six months, one shot per month for six months to build the immunity necessary to fight off of this weaponized strain of anthrax.
So Saddam had that.
And we armed him covertly with that.
So we had to protect our troops in case he turned it back around on us.
Okay?
And so they used squalene and that adjunct was a very powerful autoimmune booster.
And it started affecting people.
The first lot was given, I think, to the pilots at Dover Air Force Base.
They reported dizziness, headaches, blurred vision.
Some of them passed out, a few of them along the line.
And some of them died, actually.
And I'm sure they covered those deaths up.
But anyway, they had this very powerful autoimmune booster in the vaccines.
And that caused a whole bunch of medical problems.
And then you had the secondary thing was the depleted uranium.
Now, it's just like the Agent Orange in Vietnam.
That was dioxin.
It was sprayed in Operation Rantan.
I think it was 69 to 71 in the Air Force.
And that dioxin was made by DuPont.
It was all over the mountains and washed down into the rivers and the water.
And that would get in our troops.
And then the effects of this stuff didn't start showing up for 10, 20, 30 years later.
And depleted uranium It also is the same way.
It's a low-level radiation, and you can get it in your body and not know you have it for several years, and then it can start slowly showing up.
So what happened was all of our soldiers started coming back, and by 1993, 1994, there was large reports in the VA hospital system of all these strange things.
They dubbed it Gulf War Syndrome.
Okay?
Wow.
Senator Chris Shays, he was a Republican from Connecticut, I believe.
He was on one of the Armed Services Committees, and they were having medical culpability hearings.
They wanted to determine what the problems were and get our veterans some money.
But here's the problem.
Since this stuff had never been used before, the depleted uranium, when the soldiers breathed it, and they came back here to the States, they made love to their wives or whatever, and in their semen, this low-level was being transferred into their spouses, and then from their spouses into the children, and then from those children into the next generation, and so forth and so forth.
So the Pentagon had this huge, huge problem of multi-generational medical bills.
It had never been done before.
They didn't know how far down the line this was going to go, and the further it went, The more money.
They were potentially on the hook for hundreds of billions of dollars over God knows how long.
They had no idea how long this was going to affect.
So basically, Chris Shays, the senator, ordered the records of approximately 480,000 of our Gulf War vets from all branches.
To be gathered and collected, and they were going to try to get the medical records and determine some kind of settlement, much like the DuPont settlement, that was arrived at for our Vietnam veterans.
And so those records were slowly gathered by the FBI, and they were put in the Murrah Building.
And so when the Murrah Building blew up, the Pentagon was off the hook, basically, for a lot of money.
They could also cover up two other things.
The covert arming of Saddam Hussein with the Amstrain of Anthrax, And also the defective mob gear.
That was a big thing.
I mean, all the contractors that make that mob gear for our military, that's a lot of money.
And so later on, after the murder building was bombed on April 19th, 1995, they did have congressional hearings on Gulf War Syndrome.
One of them was on September 19th of 1996.
And in that hearing, this is all on record, the DOD The Department of Defense admitted at the hearing that over 400,000 of the Gulf War Syndrome medical records of our veterans had, quote, disappeared.
That's in the report.
So it was a stroke of luck, I guess, you know, that the Murrow building blew up and those records were destroyed.
But there's a problem here.
When the Murrow building actually was blown up about 9.03 a.m., uh april 19th of 95 the rider truck with mcbay came up so he was apache that was the cover for this black off but only one there were two more bombs that did not detonate there were actually three in there and one of them did go off and there were two more that didn't and so now they had another problem if you're going to run a black off to destroy records uh And then
some of the explosives don't go off and some of the records remain.
How are you going to get them out without people knowing?
Ole, you know the story.
Why don't you tell the story of that with those guys in the blue suits?
Well, what happened was that the first explosion went off.
There were more than one.
But the major devastation took place.
And lots and lots of people were killed and injured.
When this happened, there was a lot of civilians coming, running, trying to help all of these injured individuals that were lying there in the ruins.
And while they were trying to save these poor individuals, suddenly somebody started screaming, secondary bombs found, secondary bombs found, please clear the area.
Everybody needs to clear the area.
And so everybody cleared out.
And then in came a couple of vans filled with people in blue overalls.
That ran straight into what was left of the building and then came out with big file cabinets.
They knew exactly what they were looking for.
Went in there, got them in the vans and took off.
And then people were allowed back in on location and then saving whoever was still alive there.
But what they were clearing out were documents directly connected with Bill and Hillary Clinton.
Maybe Cody can tell you more about that.
Yeah, and excuse me, go ahead.
No, you go ahead and I will have a question, but continue please.
Okay.
Well, as I said, you know, don't go for syndrome records.
Okay.
That was only one of the things that needed to go away and be swept under the rug.
Another thing was, and we were involved in these ops.
I went to work on my master's degree, master science degree in physics.
At Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches, Texas in 1979.
During that time, we got to fly the space shuttle simulator at NASA on a field trip down there.
But I moved up to Tulsa, Oklahoma, and I was a petroleum geophysicist for Amaco Production Company.
That was my civilian front for operations.
And in 82, 83, 84, 85 through that area, we were involved in some of the operations over at Arkansas.
Specifically, Centaur Rose, you know, the code name for the Rose Law Firm.
But that operation was an op to send arms down to Nicaragua.
Let me ask you, Cody, I want to understand what your role has been with regard to all of this, because what you're saying is you are basically a physicist, if I understand that correctly.
I was a geophysicist for Amoco Production Company.
I know, but that was your cover.
You were trained to be what?
I did black operations.
Okay, as what?
In other words, were you a soldier?
Were you a scientist?
What was your actual skill set?
Well, my skill set was I've trained in martial arts for over 20 years.
And I also was trained by several Vietnam veterans who came back from Vietnam.
And some of them had worked for the CIA over there covertly.
And they train me in a wide variety of things, all the military stuff.
Okay, so you said you went to college or something to be, what, a geophysicist?
I went to Stephen F. Austin State University in Nacogdoches, Texas to work on my Master of Science degree in physics.
I had graduated with a Bachelor of Science degree in mathematics and physics both.
Okay, so it's kind of strange that you would go from that to kind of what appears to be a lot more of a military role.
How did that transition happen?
I don't understand.
I wasn't in the military.
I understand, but you said you were trained by Vietnam vets.
I assume they trained you in military procedures and...
Oh yeah, all the stuff.
Why did they train you that way?
Because I was working for them.
I started back ops in 1974.
I graduated from high school and I scored in the top 1% in the SAT test in physics going into college.
In 1975, in the fall semester, CIA approached me to offer me a job to recruit me.
And I turned them down.
I told them I did not want to work for the government.
I wanted to work for myself.
Okay.
And then what happened?
Then I was already working with these Vietnam bats at that time.
And we were, you know, conducting operations there.
And that continued as I finished my master's degree in 1979 when I started.
And then I worked for Chevron Geosciences and then went to...
Amoco production company in Tulsa, Oklahoma.
And at that time, they were involved in those operations over in Arkansas with the CIA. And they hired me to do specific jobs for them.
Okay, now your jobs that you were doing, were they involving your science background or were they involving, you know, I don't know, combat types of things?
We were involved basically in moving equipment, arms, and supplying people over in MENA that were taking stuff down to the Nicaraguans.
Okay, were you flying?
Are you a pilot?
No, no, I wasn't flying.
We did mostly ground stuff.
There was a guy that he was in the National Guard Armory down there in Little Rock.
And he was a supply guy.
And back then everything wasn't on computers like it is now.
And it was a lot easier to move stuff.
But they were stealing arms out of there from the CIA. And they had a farm down outside of town.
And they'd move them over there to cool off for a while.
And then we'd take them from there over to my friend's place between Tulsa and Oklahoma City.
They'd safe houses there and we'd let them cool off until we were ordered to bring them back because there's always an investigation when a bunch of stuff disappears like that.
And then I was mostly just a driver moving ordnance.
Okay, so were you under orders?
Was this a part of the American military that was giving you orders or another group?
No, these were black ops contractors.
These were people who had been in Vietnam as soldiers and had gotten out of the army.
A lot of them were disgruntled at the way they were treated.
Some of them had Agent Orange or so forth.
But they were making good money and a lot of them were assets or contractors for CIA. Okay, so were you employed by the CIA at that point?
No, absolutely not.
Okay.
Who did you report to?
My associates.
And they paid me in cash.
Okay.
The reason they liked me was because I was a civilian.
I had a good job as a geophysicist with a respected oil company.
I had a perfect criminal record.
That way if I was ever caught moving all this black ops stuff, they would figure I was just a criminal.
Okay, but in terms of, you know who Barry Seal is, right?
Yeah.
And the story, you know, the movie's out right now called American Made.
Have you seen it?
No.
All right.
Well, it concerns this type of thing that he was moving arms, you know, back and forth from South America and Columbia to America, etc.
So would that, in theory, would be part of this sort of chain that you were part of?
Is that right?
Well, this was highly compartmentalized, okay?
What my job was, for instance, they would call me and say, here's a truck.
We want you to take this truck and drive it to a certain point.
Say a Walmart parking lot in some town.
And you wear a blue hat and you drive this truck there.
I did not know what the cargo was in the truck.
When we first started, later on, as they began to trust me more and stuff, then they would tell me what the cargo was.
But I really didn't want to know.
I was getting paid a lot of money and I would drive a truck and park it somewhere.
And then another guy would come up and he would be in a red hat.
I never knew who he was or never saw him.
We had a coat.
I would open the hood of the truck.
I would walk over and act like I was working on it around a certain time.
And then he would walk up and say something like, are you having car trouble?
And I'd say, yes, I am.
And he'd say, well, what is it?
And I said, I think it's the starter.
And then he'd get in and say, well, I'll try it.
And that was the code.
That's who I knew who my contact was.
That way I would shut the hood and walk off and disappear.
I didn't know where the load was going.
I didn't know what was in the load.
They have to compartmentalize these black ops like that in case you get caught.
There's going to be a lot of questions and I would not know the answers.
Okay, but you're a smart guy.
So did, for example, back in those days, and you said you're coming forward now because The Clintons have, in theory, lost power, although Bush Sr.
is still in power behind the scenes, I would imagine, although perhaps there is a group behind Trump trying to take him down.
But nonetheless, as a smart guy, you probably knew that the Clintons were involved.
Is that right at that time, or is this something you put together later?
This is something I put together later.
At first, we were operational, okay?
And I knew there was a lot of high security.
I knew, like you said, I'm a smart, fairly smart guy.
But I knew that these loads were probably highly illegal.
I suspected they might have been drugs or weapons.
But when I was in that op, we tried to not ask questions.
I tried to know the minimum amount that I needed to do.
It's called need to know.
That way, if you're caught or you're tortured, it gives the other people in the operation more time to clear out.
If you divulge information, and then whoever it is, it might have been a terrorist group, or it might have been the FBI, or it might have been God knows who.
Anyone who's trying to hop the operation.
It might have been thieves trying to steal the cargo.
You don't know who it is.
If you're caught and you're tortured, then you can't give up anything.
And the other people that are in the op, that provides them protection plus time to change or move or find out where the leak was.
Okay, so you're doing this for how many years, this kind of a situation?
A long time.
I started in 1974.
Actually, when I was a senior in high school, that's when I started working with them.
And I went all the way through the 80s, all the way up into the 90s.
You know, by that time we developed a lot of different contacts in the black ops community and different people gave us different jobs and so forth.
Okay, so were you working Okay, you know, it's very interesting.
I really appreciate you coming forward in this way, but I don't understand exactly what was your motivation for working for Black Ops.
Was this a family connection?
Money.
Just money?
Oh, yeah.
Okay, so you had a career ahead of you, though, as a geophysicist of some kind, right?
And you kind of changed your career direction, if you want to look at it like that.
And you got involved in these, what you're calling, black ops.
And it involved the movement of, in theory, drugs and guns, correct?
Yes.
Okay.
Now, how did you go from doing that to being offered to bomb a building in, you know, the Murrow building?
Well, I was a black operator, and we had done several jobs.
And I was getting better and better over the years, like anybody would.
And one day I was called by a guy named Harold Leonard.
He's dead now.
And he had the job for me.
It was an EOD job, explosives demolitions.
So did you, I'm just going to stop you there, sorry.
Did you learn then from these Vietnam vets or where did you get your training on demolitions?
From the Vietnam vets.
Alright.
And did you befriend them, you know, did they become good friends or were they just giving you training and then walking away?
No, no, we were very good friends and we counted on each other's, you know, we put our lives in each other's hands.
So they were part of the Black Ops as well?
Of course they were.
All right.
And were they no longer in the military formally?
Correct.
So were they working CIA? Some of them may have been.
May have been working for other people.
That was not my concern.
My concern was conducting the operations they gave me and getting paid.
Minimum amount of blowback.
That's what Black Ops is.
Right, I understand.
If I was captured or caught or tortured or otherwise made to talk, if I knew who they were working for, that's a liability.
I did not need to know that.
These were need-to-know operations and all they give you is the information that you need to know at the time to get the mission or the operation completed.
Okay, so when you You went from being an asset, in essence, to who was kind of doing what he was told.
And during that time, you must have stumbled on pieces of information that helped you put this puzzle together, right?
Oh, yeah.
You know, when you first start out, it's a big trust thing.
And then whatever people you're working with, after you conduct a few ops and And everything works good and they see that you're able to handle it, then they'll usually give you a little more or a bigger thing.
They don't want to give you something too big that you can't take care of.
The idea here is to minimize blowback and to keep things quiet.
And so over a period of time, trust is developed and then different ops come your way and different things happen.
But yeah, I saw a lot of things.
I learned real quick, Kerry, not to ask too many questions.
I learned real quick to just focus on my job and make sure I did everything correctly so that we could all get paid without any problems.
Well, the reason, you know, you have to understand that I deal with whistleblowers, my whistleblowers generally come from what you call above top secret.
So there are people that are, you know, working for some of these people you were working for, I imagine, but they were doing things like going into underground bases and they were probably bombing all kinds of things.
Did you go into underground bases in your time there?
No.
Were you aware of them?
Yes.
Okay.
And did you go to South America, Mexico, you know, did you travel around or did you stay only in the U.S.? No, no.
I've been all over South America, Mexico.
Various countries around the world, we use false identities, fake passports in disguise and so forth.
Right.
And so you must have been, you say you weren't working directly for CIA, you were a contractor, but somewhere along the line, did you get promoted like any kind of titles or, you know what I'm saying?
No, no, no, absolutely not.
That's why I was the perfect guy, you know, to be offered a job to bond the Murrah Building.
I was a civilian cutout.
The other guys, if they had a game to, like Timothy McRae, he would be an example of an ex-military cutout because he was in the military over in Desert Storm.
So, in the black ops world, when they're going to pull a high profile off like that murder billing thing, and there's going to be a lot of media attention and a lot of people looking at it, they usually use ex-military cutouts or black ops contractors that don't have any ties.
That way, if...
Anything sours up and there's blowback.
It never gets back to any of the agents or case officers, anyone involved in the op.
It's like a firewall in a computer system.
The black ops world is like that.
You have to have that if you're going to maintain plausible deniability.
The idea is to conduct the operation, whatever it is, With a minimum of blowback.
Right.
So what about the organizations?
You know, we we know of organizations that were very much involved in, you know, like Blackwater and various organizations.
Do you know the names of those organizations?
Did you deal with those?
Some people call mercenaries, etc.
Well, You know, Eric Prince started that Blackwater thing later.
Some of the guys that I worked with later on had been involved in that.
And they were ex-military.
And then they wanted the money because contracting like I was doing, Black Ops contracting, you make quite a bit of money.
And I needed the cover of a civilian front.
That was my thing.
And it worked perfectly because you're basically invisible to...
Any kind of law enforcement anywhere, whatever country you're in, you got a perfect cover with a perfect record.
And the guys that I worked for liked that.
I didn't work with mercenary groups, per se.
I mostly stuck to just, you know, the Black Ops guys, the Vietnam guys, and some other business associates and some scientists and people that needed some work done.
Okay, what kind of work would a scientist need?
Well, we had one guy.
He filed the first patent ever filed for the GPS, the Global Positioning Satellite System.
He previously worked for the government at Airborne Instruments Technology.
That's a big company that makes a lot of specialized radar equipment and microwave antenna and so forth.
He's a scientist and he filed these patents and then the NSA about a week later came to his house and told them they were confiscating them under national security.
And so he hired me to do some work for him.
He was very disgruntled from the U.S. government, stealing his property and classifying it under national security, so he decided to go overseas.
And he had some other patents he was working on, and he vowed never to be around the corruption of the U.S. government anymore.
He went overseas, he needed bodyguard work, and he needed logistical support, since I had degrees in math and physics.
That's another example of a scientist who might need some black ops help.
Okay, now he was actually working against the U.S. government at that point.
Is that correct?
No, he was working for himself.
If you have an intellectual property like a patent that's really powerful, like the GPS, this was back before anyone ever heard of it.
They classified it for military reasons, whatever the reasons were.
But he didn't get any money out of it.
They didn't pay him.
And he wanted his money.
They violated the law.
The NSA violated the law in this case, okay?
And he didn't get any money or compensation for all of his work that he'd done to develop that.
And that was not fair.
He was just criminal.
He wasn't working against the US government.
He just wanted to go somewhere to a country where he could file his patents and get paid for it.
Okay.
Well, so how did he find you?
Another person, you know, told him about me.
He said, we know this guy that can help you.
Word of mouth.
I didn't put out a sign in the paper and say, I'm a black operator, call me.
Right.
Okay.
Are you aware of Halliburton?
I have heard of Halliburton, yes.
Okay.
Were you working for them?
No.
Okay.
Were you working for George Bush Sr.?
No, not directly.
Okay, but were orders coming down from him?
That could very well be the case.
That's what I understood from some of the people that we were working with, but I don't have any actual intelligence to prove that.
It's just...
Okay, but you have actionable intelligence to prove you were working for the Clintons on some level.
No, not really.
Not in the black ops world.
We try to really stop that kind of thing.
If they order something and then they go to someone and then someone else goes to someone else, and then if the op is real sensitive, they have to watch who they hire.
And there's a lot of people and operators out there, a lot of them are ex-military, and they'll pick who they need.
Offer them the money, tell them the parameters of the job, and then hopefully it's conducted without any blowback.
Okay, but you said when you first came on that you're trying to avoid the Clintons for some reason.
So why are you trying to avoid the Clintons if you're not whistleblowing against them, so to speak?
Well, the Clintons were in power as president, and back when When he was president, I had been involved with ATF agent Blake Butler.
He was an ATF nation's top cop.
Vice President Gore gave him his plaque in D.C. But during that time, we were in an undercover operation in Colorado Springs called Stingray.
And during that time, the ATF had hidden cameras.
And it was right after the Columbine shootings up in Denver.
It was the biggest high school shooting in the U.S. April 20, 1999.
And I was over there with Agent Butler.
I didn't know he was an agent.
And Bill Clinton and Janet Reno came on TV. And he started talking.
He goes, what do you know about them?
And so we were alone.
And I told him a bunch of stuff about Blackhawks in Arkansas and all the stuff we did.
And so it was very...
Inflammatory against the Clintons because I was talking about a lot of these ops.
And then they sealed everything.
The CIA came and took the tapes.
They planted me with fake evidence on September 16, 1999.
And then they threw me in federal prison up there right by Timothy McVeigh.
And so the reason is because They know that I know all this stuff, and when I talked, this undercover agent had it on tape, so they had to bury the tapes.
That's all part of this story.
All right, so you were in a cell next to Timothy McVeigh, or in the same, you know, in the same, were you able to...
We were, I never saw him, but we were about three cells down.
The reason I know that, those things are like bank vaults, and it was a whole orderly.
His name was Gerald Two Bulls.
He was a Lakota Indian...
He was there on a charge, and his job was to clean up, and he could get out of the cells.
And he came and told me, he said, McVeigh's free cells down.
Right.
And so did you get like an ongoing dialogue with McVeigh at that point?
No, no one was allowed to talk to Timothy McVeigh at all for any reason.
You had to be lieutenant grade or higher, which they generally have about 15 years in the BOP. That's the Bureau of Prisons.
You have to be, and even Gerald, the whole order, he walked by one day mopping the floor, and he told me this later.
He said, all I said was, hey, and he said, McVay was at the window and said, hey, I threw Gerald in his cell for almost a week just for saying, hey, and they told him, don't talk to him.
No one's allowed to talk to him.
Not even the regular prison guards were allowed to talk to him.
Just the lieutenant grades are higher.
Very tight security.
I appreciate that.
Okay, so how does being in a prison near him, how did that give you information?
I don't understand the question.
Well, you're saying you were, McVeigh was in a prison cell next, near you.
And are you just saying, well, that's just a coincidence, but you never learned anything related to that?
Or how does that factor into the story?
I don't understand what you're talking about.
I do not understand your question.
Okay.
All right.
So you never spoke to McVeigh, but he was in a cell down the corridor from you.
Is that correct?
Yeah, correct.
All right.
So what is the meaning of that?
What are you trying to convey when you tell us that?
Are you trying to...
I'm trying to convey to you that we were in a very high security facility.
All right.
It was a Supermax facility.
And I had an absolutely perfect record with no traffic tickets, never been arrested, and Judge Nottingham, who was appointed or nominated to his position, the Tenth Circuit Judge, by Director of Central Intelligence, George Bush, he court ordered me to go there, okay, in the most super place they had.
Now this is very strange.
Right.
So how long were you there?
Pardon me?
How long were you there?
In that, with McVeigh, probably two months.
All right.
But I was in that facility, the whole FDC facility, for 18 months.
Okay, and did they tell you what your charges were?
Yes, they had an indictment against me, including the planted evidence that Blake Butler had planted on me for talking about the Clintons and everything.
Okay, so what year was that that you were in that prison?
Let's see, from 1999 all the way through 2003, and I had gotten a bond for a little bit of that time.
You had gotten a what?
A bond.
A bond.
Okay, so you got out of prison briefly?
Uh-huh.
And so when exactly with, you know, you were set up, you were thrown in that prison, McVeigh was down the hall.
When did the bombing occur in relation to all that?
It occurred years before back in April 19th in 1995.
All right.
So that's, that is very, now this Supermax facility, where is it?
Is it in Colorado or what?
Yeah, it was up in Denver, Colorado in a suburb called Inglewood, and it's called the FCI. That's the Federal Correctional Institute.
And there they had the FDC, which is a federal detention center where they held inmates that were pending trial and so forth.
And then they had the SHU, the part of that unit, which was the special housing unit, and that was a supermax unit there.
Okay, did you happen to come across any other interesting prisoners while you were there?
I certainly did.
Like?
Well, one of them was Ahmed, who was from Pakistan, and he'd sold about 100 pounds of heroin to an undercover DEA agent there in New York, and they had put him in the pod there, and he was my ping-pong partner for a while, and he told me these guys would come get him, the guards, and he'd disappear for Courage of time, and he'd come back, and he said, well, that was the CIA, Cody, and he was really spooked.
And I said, what are they doing?
Were they talking to you?
And he said, well, my son, he's my connection.
He's the guy that has all the heroin over there in Pakistan.
And his son had been to Afghanistan and had dealt with Osama bin Laden.
And so what they wanted was...
For Ahmed, in exchange for leniency on his sentence, to use his son's connections to set Osama bin Laden up over there so they could get to him.
And Ahmed was worried about his family's protection over there, and he was trying to cut a deal to get all his family, all of them, I mean all the nieces, cousins, sons, daughters, everybody.
And he said, if you bring them all to the United States and grant me full immunity, drop my charges, then we'll try to do this.
But they couldn't come to any kind of agreement, so...
You know, he's worried about them all getting killed over there once you try to set up an al-Qaeda member.
There was other guys in there, like Ron Cole, who was a branch civilian compound guy and so forth.
All right.
So are you aware that Osama bin Laden was a CIA asset?
I have been told that, yes.
Okay, well, did this Ahmed and did him and his son know that?
I suspect that they did.
Okay.
Their main job was to sell the heroin.
The opium crops come in and they have a lot of stuff over there in Afghanistan and their job is to get the money and deal it.
They were drug dealers.
Right.
Okay.
Let's get back to this story about Oklahoma.
So, you got framed in what year after the Oklahoma situation you were offered?
Then some people tried to kill you a couple times, and then somehow you were framed and thrown in prison.
Is that correct?
Well, yeah.
Yeah, I usually go through the timeline.
All right.
But you said that we weren't going to repeat all that from other interviews.
Well, no, it's okay.
It's okay.
You know, I just wanted to, now I've kind of asked you a few surrounding questions.
So, I kind of know the lay of the land.
If you want to go through your timeline, I'm happy for you to do that.
Okay.
Well, basically, after the MER building was bombed in 1995, April 19th, I went black for a while.
I knew I had operational knowledge of that, and I figured I was going to get killed or something to shut me up.
I knew there was a big cover-up.
And then in 1997, ATF DEA began an undercover Operation Stingray in Colorado Springs, and I was involved with that.
And on April the 22nd, 1999, that's when me and Blake Butler were sitting over there talking.
And he asked me about Janet Reno and Bill Clinton, who were on TV. They were in Colorado at the time.
And I talked about ops and everything.
I told him about the job to bomb the Murrah Building.
I didn't know at the time that ATF agent Blake Butler had actually been working at the Murrah Building on April 19, 1995, the day it was bombed, but had not showed up for work.
I found out later that he was at the Branch Servidian Compound in Waco, Texas, when that fiasco happened.
And then he was also up in Ruby Ridge in Idaho where the Randy Weaver fiasco happened, where Vicki Weaver was shot up there.
Wait, wait, wait.
Tell me about this operation.
I want to know Blake Butler and Operation Stingray, you called it, right?
Right.
Now, what exactly was Operation Stingray?
Operation Stingray was started jointly by the ATF and DEA in the Colorado area.
They were principally targeting the Sons of Silence Motorcycle Club, which was one of the big five motorcycle clubs in the country.
And ATF was looking for gun violations and DEA was looking for drug violations.
So it was an operation.
Okay, now this guy, Butler, what exactly was his job?
I mean, was he an NSA asset or what?
No, no, he was an ATF agent.
He had been one of their undercover agents, we found out later at several of these things, and he was tasked with infiltrating the Sun to Silence Motorcycle Club, pretending to be a club member, and his job was to gain intelligence and try to You know, catch them in violations and stuff like that.
Okay, but he was also involved in framing you, correct?
Oh yeah.
I had been at one point from 91 to 93.
I had class 3 machine gun licenses and I had one of the biggest machine gun dealerships here in Colorado.
We sold machine guns, silencers, shot-off shotguns.
And the name of the company was Scientific Systems on Janotel Road.
And so I had a lot of contacts in the area.
That shop was a front for what we were doing with the black ops stuff.
That's how I met him, was through the gun business.
Alright, so you were selling, were you selling guns or were you just delivering them?
I was selling them.
By the time By the time 1997 rolled around and ATF, DEA Operation Stingray, was operational from 1997 to 1999, I had already dropped my licenses and had finished what I was doing, but I still was selling guns out of my private collection.
When I turned all my records over to ATF, Many of the guns that we had in our inventory, it was a great big shop.
We just transferred them to myself personally on legal transfers.
And then we mailed all our books and all of our licenses and everything back to ATF. That's a standard procedure when you're turning in your licenses or stopping a business.
So I've got records of all that stuff.
Sure.
So were you...
at that point you kind of changed...
I mean, I don't know if you call it professions, but if you were, you know, selling guns, were you like in a different line of work than kind of the black ops side, would you say?
No, no, no.
No, I was a black operator.
The front in this time was selling guns.
Back in the 80s, around Centaur Rose and those other ops, it was being a geophysicist.
Alright, so that's very interesting.
So they used sale of machine guns as a front for black ops.
You bet.
That's a perfect cover because we had, we dealt with, we were building prototype guns for the Navy SEALs, hoping to get some contracts.
We had a Class II manufacturing license which allowed us to build silencers, machine guns.
It was a perfect front.
My handlers and people, my principals loved it because we dealt with a lot of guns.
We had licenses to carry machine guns in any of the 52 states.
We were always having, you know, guns being sold in and out.
In fact, when the Branch Davidian compound was hit in 93, back then, it was February 28, 1993, I was still operational at Scientific Systems with my cover.
And Doug Miller, he was the ATF field officer out of the Denver office.
And he came down to my shop one day for a surprise compliance check.
And I said, what are you doing here, Doug?
And he says, did you hear about all that big thing in Waco?
And I said, I heard something on the news.
What's going on?
And he says, well, they've evidently got a lot of weapons.
There's been four ATFs shot.
Six parents of Indians dead so far.
And we're trying to figure out which gun shops have sold them stuff.
We want to know what's down there.
Can we look at your books?
And my biggest distributor at the time was RSR out of Dallas.
And so I was dealing with Texas a lot in my gun shop.
And so we opened up the books and he looked through everything.
He said, do you sell them any machine guns?
Do they have any silencers?
What do they got down there?
And I said, I've never even heard of them.
I don't even know anything about them, but you're welcome to look at the books.
So They went around checking all the records just to try to find out what kind of ordinance they had down there before anything else happened.
They'd already had four-agent shots, so they're pretty nervous.
Okay, well, did they find out that your guns were used at Waco?
No, no.
None of my guns were down there.
I didn't have any dealings with them whatsoever with the guns.
Okay.
So it doesn't...
All right.
Did you know, Janet Reno, did you know that the Waco thing was a setup, that that was a plan?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I had a friend from Vietnam, and I can go ahead and use his name.
We don't want to, you know, violate that 1982 Intelligence Identities Protection Act.
That's a yes code 50 sections 421, 426, where you can't You know, spill the beans on any operative.
You know that John Kiriakou, that CI officer, he got 30 months in federal prison in January 2013 for talking and giving somebody's name out who was still operational in the CI's RDI program.
That's the Rendition Detention and Interrogation Program.
So we don't want to use any names, but the name I'm going to give you is a guy that's dead now, and his name is Captain Glenn Wilson.
And he did two tours in NOM, and then when he got out of NOM, he went down to Dade County, Florida, And was the head of No Knock Narcotics there.
And that's back in the 80s with all the cocaine cowboy things and stuff was going on.
But Janet Reno, she was the district attorney there.
And so Captain Wilson was a good friend of mine.
We had done some contract work with the Defense Intelligence Agency, both of us.
He planned some of that stuff in Tehran in 1979 when they had to rescue our guys after the Ayatollah Khomeini forces to overthrow our embassy there.
Back in Florida there, he worked with her, and they would go out and make, this is what he told me straight to my face, okay?
He said they would go out and make drug buffs around the area.
A lot of drugs coming through Florida at that time, mostly cocaine.
Sometimes heroin, but mostly cocaine.
And he said that they would go into the evidence room and tag and bag all the evidence after their raids that night.
And then he'd have coffee with Janet Reno there, and they would go over all the paperwork and that stuff.
And he eyewitnessed her go down there, and she would take out cocaine and sometimes heroin, mostly cocaine, and that it was to be used for her lesbian girlfriends.
And then he also said that on certain cases, they would bring in large quantities of drugs, and they'd tag them and bag them and get all the evidentiary procedures out of the way.
They would be politically connected or sensitive people that got busted.
And Janet Reno would order them to destroy the evidence and get rid of it all because those people didn't need to be prosecuted.
So he went ahead with the corruption and all because he was getting paid and everything.
But he told me later on, when he was back here in Colorado, he said she was horribly corrupt.
And that's what he saw himself.
Yeah.
I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that.
He said she was what?
Horribly corrupt.
Oh, I see.
That's interesting.
So, the situation at Waco, what was the reason for that op?
Do you know?
The reason for that?
Yeah.
Why'd they frame that guy?
Why'd they kill all those children?
Do you know any of that?
I don't know the actual reasons.
What I heard from Ron Cole, who was, he was a Branch Davidian.
I'm not a Branch Davidian, but I met him after all that happened.
And he said that he was there with Koresh, David Koresh, the leader of the day, about, I think, two days before, maybe the day before that thing hit.
His mother had gotten sick in Florida.
And he flew down there to take care of her.
And then the very next day, he heard it on the news, you know, that the place had been hit.
There was a shooting.
And he called David Koresh immediately and was talking to him on the phone.
And David Koresh told him what had happened.
And he had been shot at that point.
And then the phone lines were cut.
The FBI and them cut the phone.
And then by the time Ron Cole immediately left Florida and came back up, And he said that by that time, there was a large perimeter, and they were calling in all kinds of police and all kinds of people, and there was branch civilians out there in the town that had been shopping and so forth.
And so he bundled up with all the people that were not caught inside that perimeter fence, and then they set up camp, and they watched at night over a period of several days.
Wondering what was going on in there with their friends.
But it still doesn't explain why.
Yeah, I don't know the real reasons why all that happened other than the ATF was covering up a bunch of their illegal activity.
What Ron told me was that when he called David Koresh immediately after he hit the noob, that Koresh told him that They were all sitting around in the Branch Davidian compound that day, and a couple of trucks with these saddle trailers behind them pulled up, and there was no markings, no message, nothing, and the dogs ran out and started barking at the trucks.
And the ATF agents in there shot the dogs, and then they opened up on the compound.
Now, that was their story.
And later on, there were two steel doors in that compound, And the question at the trial was, which way did the bullets come, from the inside or the outside?
And the whole compound was burned down, and those doors were evidence.
They subpoenaed them, and then the ATF said they were lost out of the evidence room.
Those two four-by-eight-foot steel doors.
And there were two Texas Ranger brothers who had actually went after the fire, and they'd seen those doors.
laying in there too hot to touch but they said that the bullet holes were coming from the inside out like someone had went up there and shot the place up and they were subpoenaed to testify later and then they found kiddie porn on their laptops and under Texas law if you're under indictment for a felony like that you're not allowed to testify so there was a big cover up there and I'm telling you what I was told by Ron Cole out of his mouth You know,
I was not there, and I don't know the real reasons.
I know what he told me they saw while they were there at night, and if you want me to tell you that, I can tell you that.
All right, what did they see?
Well, he said that they were night after night.
They were there, and they had binoculars and a little telescope and different things trying to see because the perimeter was pretty far back, and then at night they heard helicopters, and they were blacked out with, you know, black helicopters, no markings, No lights.
And they would circle the compound.
And they would see streaks of light.
These were civilians.
They really didn't know what they were seeing.
They were seeing these streaks of light going down, different colors, green, orange.
But they were all talking, you know, what is this?
What's going on?
I wonder what all that, what is that?
And there was a guy down there.
And they said, you know, we wish we had some night vision so we could look at it.
And a guy walked up and he says, I've got some night vision.
It's military night vision.
You guys look and see it.
So they could see the helicopters and they realized at that time, they said, what are those streaks of light?
And he says, well, those are machine guns.
He said, I just got back from Desert Storm and we used them like that all the time.
Those are tracer rounds you're seeing at night.
And they go, well, who are you?
And he said, I'm Timothy McVeigh.
So McVeigh stayed with them, shared the night vision.
And they watched, and the standard tactics of, you know, Delta Force or anything is to, if you have an insurgents, then they're all inside a building, then what you do is deny the high ground.
In other words, if you have shooters up on the roof, they can shoot operationally very far, but if they're down on the lower floors on ground level, they can't shoot that far.
And so that allows the surrounding People to collapse the perimeter.
So by taking away the high ground and machine gunning up all of that, it pushed the Brant Civilians down low, which would allow the federal agents to collapse the perimeter even further.
And that's what he explained to Ron and then.
He said that's what they're doing, a standard military tactic.
So that's like a softening up of the target?
Yeah.
You know, when people are up on top of a roof, they can shoot a long ways.
But when they're down on the ground, they can't shoot very far.
I got it.
So it allows the perimeter to collapse closer in.
Right, but you said they're shooting from helicopters.
That's even higher than the roof.
No, the people in the helicopters were the government.
The people on the roof were the Branch Davidians.
So, are you trying to say that they were the Branch Davidians?
The helicopters were shooting down at them in the buildings to force them to go down on a lower level.
Okay, the shooters being the Branch Davidians, shooting at the helicopters?
No, the other way around.
Alright, so what was McVeigh's role exactly at Waco and do you think that that had something to do with him being turned into the Patsy for Oklahoma?
Yes, it probably did.
You know, McVeigh had one star over there, and when he got back, he'd been a tank commander, and when he got back, he went to Fort Benning, I believe it was, and he had joined Special Forces.
He wanted to continue his training, and there was a big class of over 100 people in that class, and they did their standard psych profiles and so forth, and then McVeigh was singled out.
The CIA picked about 10 guys out of that class, and they had a covert meeting with them.
And they said, look, we want you guys to be operative for us.
You know, you'll be working for us, but your front is going to be special forces.
So you just keep doing your army thing, but we want you to do covert bombings, assassinations, drug running, and so forth.
And McVeigh told them he didn't want to do that.
He didn't want any part of it.
And we know this because right after that time, McVeigh wrote letters home to his sister, that was Jennifer, and he explained in the letters what the CI had offered him and how he just wanted to be a soldier.
He didn't want to get mixed up in all that black ops stuff.
And he quit and went away.
And later on, I think the FBI confiscated a lot of those letters from Jennifer because she was called to trial up here at the Tenth Circuit in Denver.
And Richard Mates was the judge on that trial.
But I have copies of those letters, and we put some of them in the appendix of the book.
But after that, McVeigh went up to a company called Cowspan in Buffalo, New York, and that was a security job.
It's a civilian security job.
But when you start digging around, Kerry, this is pretty interesting.
Cowspan turned out to be in that Redstone program with the Air Force.
They were Involved in a lot of real high-level classified electronic research, electronic countermeasures, missile telemetry stuff, microchips, all kinds of real high-level stuff.
And it's there that we believe that McValue was approached with the offer to go down there and do the rider truck.
And he probably didn't know he was part of a parallel op.
You know, the building was going to be wired By other operators and that when he was supposed to pull up there, the whole thing was supposed to be detonated and he was going to be the cover for it.
So yeah, there's a lot of stuff with McValley that a lot of people don't know.
He had plenty of reasons, you know, after Waco and seeing what happened, there's plenty of reasons why he may have decided to turn against his own government.
Right.
Well, children were murdered, right?
Where?
At Waco?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
There was...
When that thing ended, Terry, about...
It was April 19th, 1993 was the day they had that big fire.
And there was 54 dead and 21 children dead.
It's just a sad thing.
Okay.
And just curious, do you think that those kids were being held against their will?
Well...
This is what Ron Cole told me because I had read all the stuff in the paper, you know, and I wasn't at the compound, but I'd heard all that stuff about him being a pedophile and methamphetamine labs, and as it turns out, the ATF cooked that lie up about the drugs because they went to Governor Ann Richardson off Fort Hood.
That's where my dad took his basic training in the Army in 25th Infantry Division, but At Fort Hood, they had those tanks, and that's what the ATF needed was the military hardware when they went to burn that place down.
So they were violating the Posse Comitatus Act, which forbids military equipment to be used in law enforcement stuff.
So they lied to her, and later on, she admitted, you know, she believed it.
At first, then they found out after it was burned down, there was no evidence of drugs whatsoever, and realized that she'd been duped, and she got mad about that.
Who are you talking about now?
Janet Reno?
No, Ann Richardson, the governor of Texas.
She had to okay the military equipment to be taken off Fort Hood.
So the ATF got it and they burned the compound down.
Here's what Ron told me about that.
I said, I read all the stuff in the paper about David Cress being a pedophile and being bad to the children and all that.
And he just laughed.
He said, there's nothing further than the truth.
He said the children used to follow him around.
It was a great community.
There was never anything like that.
It was a Christian-based thing.
There was no sex, no drugs.
All of that was smears and lies that were generated to cover up the ATF's crimes.
That's what he told me.
Okay, and did you ever hear that David Koresh was a CIA asset?
I never heard that.
I don't know.
Did you ever hear of a guy named Gordon Novell?
I've heard that name, but I don't know much, hardly anything about it.
I've just heard the name.
That's all I know.
Yeah, he was one of my whistleblowers.
He's died now, but he apparently was quite involved in Waco.
What was the basis?
I mean, you know, what did he say?
I mean, what's the key point?
Well, he didn't say a whole lot.
You know, he was a CIA asset, basically.
Oh, okay.
And he was down there?
Yep, apparently.
Okay.
I just wondered if you knew about him.
Okay, that's cool.
So to get back to this whole McVeigh thing, you know, your story is kind of centered around the whole thing that happened, you know, where you got this offer and so on and so forth.
But I'm just wondering, is that really what you were, you know, I mean, that building, I get the link up with, you know, with, I don't know, you want to call it Gulf War Syndrome and hiding records.
There have been other buildings that have been bombed in order to get rid of records.
In fact, I heard that some of the buildings in New York, and I forget the name of, it was It wasn't Sandy Hook, but it was Sandy.
There was another sort of bombing of a government building that had a lot of records in it they wanted to get rid of and also move a lot of monies under the cover of a bombing.
So, are there other things that you were involved in?
There are a lot more...
I know it sounds like Oklahoma City is a big thing, but you know what I'm saying?
I know exactly what you're saying.
And the answer to that is yes.
The Oklahoma City bombing was one operation.
Go ahead, Ole.
Can I just say, since I've spoken for a year and I've heard you on many interviews and so on, it was because you wanted to do it in a different way, Kerry, and take away the timeline.
That's why this interview got a bit confusing.
Well, no, I'm not confused at all.
On the contrary.
No, the interview comes out a bit confusing.
Yeah, maybe it does.
But, you know, I'm trying to fill in some of the gaps where I hear other people interviewing and they don't really get into the nitty-gritty of what's going on.
I am not so interested in Oklahoma City.
What I'm interested in is the other operations that Cody was, you know, involved in.
Well, I was involved in several of them.
One thing that's in the book we put in there was down in Guatemala City.
If you recall, there was a staff sergeant in Vietnam.
His name was Barry Sadler.
And in 1965, he wrote the Ballad of the Green Beret.
That was a number one hit back in those times.
And Barry had got out of the Special Forces.
He also trained with the 20th Special Forces Group.
At Fort Benning with Barry Seale and some other guys.
And they all kind of went over there to numb.
But Barry had gotten out of the Army and he was working down in Guatemala, you know, in Blackhawks.
Mostly arms deals and helicopter deals.
And there were some threats made on him.
He was stepping on some toes.
There were some pretty big people.
And so Duke Flaglier, he's deceased now.
He was also two tours in Special Forces in Vietnam.
He was one of my principals or people that offered me jobs occasionally.
And he called me and he said, we have a bodyguard job for you down in Guatemala, and it was for Barrie.
And two weeks before I was deployed to go down there, A CIA assassin named Rosin shot him in the back of the head as he was leaving a bar in Guat City.
And Rosin had been with the Phoenix Project in Vietnam.
And Rosin's deceased now, as far as I know, unless they duped his identity and moved him somewhere else.
But if you don't actually see the body on these things, it's a very black ops world and nothing comes out as it appears.
Why did he get shot?
He had stepped on some toes in some international arms dealing that they were doing down there.
Such as?
You know, because I know that...
No, no, no, no, no, no.
My job was to bodyguard a target, a principal, okay?
Why the bodyguard needed to be done and what he was involved in, that is not need-to-know information.
My job was to keep him alive, okay?
Now, He was shot two weeks before I went down there, and Duke flew to Atlanta, and he told me, he said, Barry's been shot, and I said, yeah, I heard.
I said, if I'd have been down there, that wouldn't have happened.
He said, I know, that's why we hired you.
And Barry didn't die, though.
That bullet hit the back of his head and went around and came out Bobby's eye, and they put him in a civilian hospital in Guatemala City.
And he faked a coma because he was worried that CIA guys would come down there dressed as doctors and give him a shot.
So this Ron Brown guy ran the Soldier of Fortune thing and Duke, they went down there and extracted him covertly and brought him back here to the States.
They were worried about him being, you know, assassinated and killed.
And so he was deteriorating in his condition.
And the story they told me was that they took him over to Memphis.
His mother or something was over there.
He actually died over here back in the States.
That's a true story.
But my job was to go down there and guard a principal, okay, and keep them alive.
All the rest of it, in case I was captured or tortured, I was not told and I did not want to know.
It's all need to know.
These are black ops, okay?
Yeah, no, I agree.
I do understand that.
But I also think that sometimes there is a need to know because how can you protect someone if you don't know what the hell they're being targeted by or why?
Well, from a civilian viewpoint, I can certainly understand why you think that.
From my viewpoint, I had a job to do, and that was to keep someone alive.
It didn't matter who was after him.
It didn't matter what he was doing.
We were given operational parameters that the threat levels were very high at the highest level, and that's all I needed to know.
Okay, so do you know that the Israelis were also, you know, if you were in the gun business, I mean, I know it was a cover, but you must have known guns are coming from certain places and going certain other places.
You're aware that the Israelis were supplying guns to, you know, down there in South America and all that?
Well, when I was in Tokyo, I was training in martial arts for a while, and one of my roommates was an Israeli Mossad agent, but I didn't learn anything from him.
And as far as the Israelis selling guns down there, I don't know anything about that.
Okay.
So, in terms of other operations that you were part of, because you're, you know, in other words, what you're kind of painting is a picture of being involved in, I don't know how many years, 30 years of Black Ops, right?
Yeah, from roughly 1974 on up to 1994.
That was when I turned the job down for the Murrow Building, because by that time I was getting, uh, I had PTSD real bad and I was drinking real heavily, having bad dreams at night.
It was reducing my operational effectiveness.
I'd also sustained several injuries and had some broken bones and nerve damage and so forth.
And so I wasn't at the peak of my game and I was about to retire.
And I did retire in, let's see, March of 1995.
I turned that job down for the Murr Building and I was on my way out and Then the bombing went off, and I'm glad I didn't take that job.
I did it on patriotic grounds.
I didn't want to do that to our own people, you know?
Right.
I understand.
So, you were doing all of these operations, though, for all those years, and then you had some health problems.
Did you feel that you were being mind-controlled at any juncture during those years?
Yes.
September 18th to the 22nd of 1991, we took about $50,000 worth of machine guns and some stuff out to Las Vegas to the Soldier of Fortune show and I was meeting a CIA agent's wife who had just been poisoned in Bogota and they were sending some things for us over to Tokyo and so that Soldier of Fortune But I
had been targeted in Project Slammer, which was with psychics.
They were doing high-level psychic attacks.
They were trying to influence people or kill them at a distance using psychics.
They used microwaves, they used various things.
I had been targeted for that.
We had a guy that was working with us at the time, and he lost his life.
Several agents, in fact, died, and he lost his life.
His dad was an agent in Thailand, in Bangkok, and they blamed me for the death, and I was targeted.
I was fixing to get out anyway.
I was nearing my end of usefulness by that time.
I knew too much and I was a liability because they can't control me with a national security oath.
Independent contractors, they have no way to control you except to plant you and throw you in prison or kill you.
I didn't have a VA loan on my house.
They can't control you that way.
They targeted me with that stuff.
I survived that and we can talk about that if you'd like sometime.
I'd like to talk about it right now if you don't mind.
Okay.
So you're talking about Project Slammer, and it looks like they started that around 1990, according to a report I'm looking at right now.
No, that's not correct.
All right, go ahead.
That project was actually begun in 1985.
It was a 10-year study project.
And the FBI Behavioral Science Division, along with CIA, We're the principals, but also involved in it was the NSA and the DIA, Navy and Air Force Intelligence.
And it was sold basically to Congress as a way to develop psych profiles for some of our spies at the turn.
You know, Carrie, you probably remember Aldrich Haines.
He was the CI Station Chief over Moscow.
Yep.
He had turned, evidently, to the KGB and was selling secrets, and so they set up on him and caught him, and then there was the FBI counter-terrorist.
I think he was 26 years, Robert Hansen.
He had turned also for the Soviets, and I think that guy's name was Scott Walker in the Navy.
He was selling secrets to the Russians, so they had a spate of guys defecting, and they were trying to...
You know figure out why and that was the above board op and There was a black op underneath it using all this mind control stuff to be able to kill people at a distance using psychotronics that psychological manipulation of a human being through electronic means like modulated microwaves or ELF waves and so forth.
Absolutely.
So how did you find out about that?
Project Slammer?
Yeah.
Oh, I was told about it.
Well, they targeted you.
I was in it with microwaves on like three or four different occasions.
And I have these fillings in my teeth.
They're the old kind of fillings, you know.
And I would always get pain whenever we were in an op somewhere and they were using microwaves.
I get these terrible toothaches.
And I didn't know what it was at first.
And then I started asking around.
And I said, oh, yeah, they're using microwaves there.
That's why your teeth were hurting.
Because the metal in the fillings, they have a higher coefficient of absorption of electromagnetic radiation than the standard tissue around you.
So they would absorb that stuff and heat up a little bit, put pressure on the nerves, and you get the toothache.
Absolutely.
So do you consider yourself psychic?
Psychic?
I'm highly psychic.
That's why I'm still alive, Carrie.
That's what I would figure.
So if you're highly psychic, did you always know you were psychic?
Or is this something you realized after several years?
No, no, no.
I had it for a long time.
And then when I died in Project Slammer, I was in Las Vegas at the Soldier of Fortune show.
And they hit me with it there, the psychic attack.
And I can explain all that, how that works.
But I lost consciousness and they took me to the civilian hospital.
And I had it coming out of both ends.
I was throwing up, you know, and everything.
What it does is it simulates pyloric stenosis.
It's a restriction of zoodenum.
And how this happens is when psychics attack you, okay, over a period of time, it generally occurs at night and it disrupts the circadian rhythm, okay?
In the pineal gland.
The pineal gland is like the antenna, the third eye chakra thing.
And so when these psychic waves come, mental projections, they start slowly changing the melatonin and serotonin production in the pineal gland.
There's melatonin sulfate, which is the transport mechanism for melatonin to get out to the rest of the body because it can't naturally be absorbed in the body that way.
Once your circadian rhythm is disrupted over a long period of time, okay, then your body gets out of whack.
Your endocrine system gets out of whack.
Your hippocampus, hypothalamus, amygdala, all these various glands in the endocrine system begin to malfunction.
And what happens, increased serotonin levels can cause duodenum restriction between the stomach and the small intestine.
And when this reaches a critical point, then your food, you know, starts to putrefy and your digestion is shut down.
And that's, I suppose, why the CIA wanted to study that was because you could cause death at a distance with symptoms that looked like food poisoning.
That way, when the target of this attack would go to a civilian hospital like I did, the doctors would look at it.
They would do a blood test.
They'd find no drugs.
They couldn't understand what was going on.
And plausible deniability would be maintained.
So they studied this psychic attack.
They studied directed energy weapons, you know, like when the Soviets hit our embassy in Moscow.
They were building the embassy and they were bombing our guys with microwaves.
And then our ambassador, all of them got back and they were having leukemia and all that.
That's documented.
They were developing all these weapons, different weapons, to kill at a distance so you wouldn't have to send in any physical assassin, okay?
And then when they found the body, they could perform all types of standard forensic autopsy techniques.
And they, of course, on high-level targets, people that were real famous, some politician or something, they found their body.
They could take a tissue sample and standard forensic autopsy requires that a GC mass spec before and that's a gas chromatography mass spectrometer and they gasify the tissue samples and separate them and run a spectrographic analysis and then they can tell what exactly what poison was in the body and so once they found out a guy's poison then they know a black op was committed but if you have a weapon That can kill at
a distance and leave no trace at all.
Then the people don't know what happened.
It looks like natural causes.
And therefore, there's no blowback in the black operation.
That's why they were studying this stuff.
Absolutely.
Now, did you know about Project Stargate?
I knew about it with David Morehouse and those guys.
And I read that book that he had.
What was it?
Psychic Warrior, I think it was.
That's right.
Yeah, yeah.
I read that.
And all of that stuff is absolutely real.
And I use remote viewing myself.
There were times when we were doing black ops that we didn't have actionable intelligence.
Sometimes the intelligence we were given was bogus.
It wasn't worth a damn.
And I didn't want to get killed because I was reading something from somebody.
The only way to gain intelligence was with the remote viewing.
Now, that's called science.
That's the psychic intelligence.
As a scientist, I have degrees in math and physics.
As a scientist, Carrie, I want empirical data.
I want proof.
I want pictures.
I want all this stuff.
But in the black ops world, you don't have that luxury.
If there's any proof, it's lost.
If there are any pictures, they disappear.
It's hard.
So science becomes even more important in the black ops world.
And you remote view targets, if you're fixing to go in and hit a house or something, you certainly like to know what's in there and who's in there.
I mean, we couldn't call CIA Langley and go, hey, we're on a black ops.
Can you guys send us a satellite feed and tell us everything, you know?
And yeah, so...
So, yeah, the psychic and remote viewing thing is very, very real.
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah.
But the problem with it is, Carrie, in LA, is that it's not reliable.
Like, you know, if you had a telephoto lens and to take a clear digital picture, I'd rather have that than use, you know, for instance, a psychic vision or a remote viewing thing.
You know, but when you don't have any intelligence at all, Then a psychic thing, yeah, you use whatever you got.
Well, you say you're psychic, and you say that it saved your life, right?
Yes.
So, do you think that the people that hired you knew you were psychic, because that's kind of obvious?
Absolutely.
That's exactly why they hired me.
That's why Duke Flaglier...
Called me.
There's a lot of operators.
There's a lot of ex-military cutouts.
There's a lot of black ops guys in the community.
A lot of guys like me you've never heard of.
And they could have called any number of them and said they want them to go bodyguard, very subtler.
But the reason that he called me was because he knew I was psychic and he knew that I had this power.
I had actually demonstrated it to him on a number of field ops.
And when they knew that I had this thing, And by the way, I wanted to tell you, Kerry, a lot of people don't know this.
I read a report.
I don't have a copy of it, but I read it once, and the CIA was doing genealogy studies, and they said that when you look at all the different races, you know, Asian, Black, American Indian, White, Caucasian, they found when they were doing psychic tests that the race combination that has the highest natural degree of natural psychic ability or psychism is a Caucasian and Cherokee Indian.
That mix of genealogy for some reason had the highest and that's what I am.
I have some of that as well and so does Miriam Delicato someone I interviewed and that people will know and also have to say that Duncan O'Finian who's what you call a super soldier.
Did you ever see my interview with him?
No, I haven't.
He's a U.S. guy?
Yeah, he has that combination and that's what kept him alive.
Oh!
Okay.
So you're right on about that.
Well, that's very interesting.
So in terms of what you did, and we had started this conversation, this part of the conversation, talking about you being mind-controlled.
So when you were at this gun show down in Vegas, they targeted you, and psychically you knew that you were being targeted.
Is that correct?
Yeah, and what had actually been happening, Carrie, was over a period of months, After the death of that guy that was working with us, they had started targeting me with, you know, the standard psychic attack, and they were sending telepathic hypnotic suggestions through the psychic mediums, and they began, you know, they would wake me up.
I'd be woken up every night, like from 2 to 4.
That's when you're in your REM sleep patterns, you know, where you're Your brain's down in the theta or the delta, that deep sleep.
And so they began disrupting my deep sleep patterns.
They also sent...
These were very powerful psychics.
You know, I never saw any badges.
And they come up and go, hey, we're psychics working for the CIA and we're going to be killing you here soon.
So I don't have any proof of that.
But we felt it.
And they would plant telepathic suggestions while you were sleeping.
This was high-level mind control.
And like my girlfriend, she always slept with a Glock pistol.
And she would wake up and go, wow, we get these really deep, dark chills.
You know, the feeling.
Indians call that wachangi.
The Lakota word is wachangi.
That's the spirit chills.
And we'd wake up, and she said, man, I just had a dream.
Some woman was telling me to pick up this Glock to kill you.
And I said, yeah, that's the psychics.
They're hitting us.
And so we put eggs in all the corners of the room and every morning those eggs would all be broken.
The psychic energy was so strong from these professional psychics, these were psychic assassins.
Yeah, that's very good.
You know, are you aware that the government and a lot of the psychics out there, the ones that are on the sort of circuit speaking, they lie about the fact that they can kill somebody at long distance?
They say they can't do it.
You know, they've said they can't do it.
Oh, yeah, I see what you're saying, Carrie.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I've collaborated this with several people.
There's a lot of people, Carrie.
I'm really glad you're brave to talk about this because there's a lot of people who, when they get out on the air, this is a taboo subject.
I mean, they don't even...
They go, man, if we start talking about this, they'd think we're crazy.
But you're absolutely right.
This stuff is very real, and I appreciate the opportunity to tell my story because they hit me with...
Excuse me.
I've got to drink something.
No problem.
Anyway, they hit me with this stuff, and it's very, very real.
David Morehouse, Joe McMoneagle, all those guys, Engels, Juan, all this stuff is very, very real.
It's at the highest level of their covert stuff.
So anyway, they hit me.
It takes a period of time, and it begins to slowly change the interconsistent balance of all your hormones.
And then you get sicker and weaker.
Time goes by.
People, you get drained down.
We had our dogs.
We had two Akita dogs from Japan.
And when they would hit us with this stuff, the dogs would stand up.
They'd start looking all around.
They'd go around in circles in the room and then sit down and pee themselves.
They didn't know what it was.
These dogs were house trained.
There's no way they'd pee in the house.
And they just peed themselves.
They were white to their eyes.
And then they'd just lay down.
On their sides and just breathe real heavy.
And every time we did this, the eggs were all broken and everything.
So we enlisted the help of several Indian medicine women.
Some of them were Cherokee women.
Others, Lakota Sioux up at Standing Rock Reservation.
And they all joined together in this psychic battle for my soul, basically.
And this went on for four to six months.
And then it culminated out at the Soldier of Fortune show.
Where it finally overwhelmed me, and I died in a civilian hospital there.
The doctors, civilian doctors, of course, had no idea that they were looking at some kind of covert mind control programs totally outside their paradigm.
And so, yeah, and I wasn't using any drugs at any time.
I wasn't drinking much at that time.
But, yeah, these programs are real, and I died from one of them.
And when I came back, I decided that I was going to change my life.
I'd had a near-death experience at that point.
I'd been out of body and I looked down and watched the doctors and everything.
And I realized at that point that the spirit was real and that we were spiritual beings of light.
And it was a complete transformation to me.
I'd had a near-death experience in the real world and decided to come back and do light work And to use my psychic powers for goodness and healing and helping people rather than killing them or hurting them like we did in the Black Ops.
I used my power back then to make money and I was good at it.
My base pay was $20,000 a month and over in Saudi Arabia they offered us jobs for $50,000 a month.
I wanted to leave that world.
I'd seen too much stuff.
It was horrible.
And then I came back to write this book years later and help expose truth and trying to get truth out.
So that's basically what happened.
Yeah, no, I hear you.
Well, I can tell you that I've been targeted the same way, and so I understand this kind of targeting.
I'm very psychic on that level, and I know exactly what you're talking about.
So it's great that you're bringing that forward.
Yeah, what did they do to you?
And Olay, you know, I don't want to...
You know, Olay's got his stories, too.
I mean, when you start talking, we had an interview with Jeff Rents last night.
Right.
Yeah, and so after the show, of course, he called and talked, and we did John B. Wells, too, and we talked after that.
And that's why I like talking about this out front like this, because a lot of people don't want to put it on their show, so we talk about this stuff, you know.
So what happened to you, Carrie?
What was it?
Well, you know, this show isn't about me, so my audience does know I was targeted.
I got some, I was on the way to interview a whistleblower and all this kind of stuff happened.
It's a few years ago and I did recover, but I know exactly what was going on and all of that.
So, you know, I also read Morehouse's book and I know that certain psychics out there, certain remote viewers try to dis, you know, Discredit him and that he actually told the truth in that book and that most of the like I say most of the remote viewers won't talk about this So it's great that you're bringing it forward I'm very glad that we sort of unearthed that found that you know got you to talk about that so What I'd like to do
though is find out you've lived through a couple other Life-death experiences.
How did they target you in those times?
Okay And like I said, April 22nd of 1999 is when we made those tapes about the Clintons and Centaur Rose and all that and Operation Sing Ray.
And so after that, Blake Butler and them had planted me with fake evidence to shut me up and McVeigh had been executed And so I was, and there was a guy named Kerry James Gagan who was given C4 to take down some guys.
He was all part of that op for the Murrah building.
And he'd been sent, he was arrested, planted with evidence, just like me, and sent to the federal correctional facility in Springfield, the nut hut, basically.
And so I was the last one left.
And four years had went by.
My case was just sitting there.
They didn't want to touch it.
We had hired a tape expert named William Valentine.
He had coffee with three sitting presidents.
He had worked for the CIA before bugging and debugging ops like the White House and stuff.
So he was real high level.
We hired him and he had absolute forensic proof that the ATF and them had cut the tapes and planted evidence and everything.
And he told me, if we go to court, you're going to take down the whole ATF division.
This is high level corruption.
And he said, they're never going to let you do it.
And so Judge Nottingham, appointed by George Bush, of course, nominated by George Bush, as you say, he said, okay, we're going to have a hearing.
It's been four years.
This guy's been sitting here.
We're going to have a final hearing and no more delays.
If the prosecution didn't bring the evidence, we're dropping the case.
And so that hearing was scheduled on July 24th of 1999.
Well, on July 14th of 1999, I was at a Walmart parking lot in Colorado Springs cleaning.
My wife was shopping and I was cleaning the windshield leaning over the hood.
And I never saw it.
This was two weeks before we're fixing to take down the whole ATF division for tampering with tapes and so forth.
And we had them on perjury, obstruction of justice, all kinds of stuff.
So two weeks before that, I'm cleaning it and a car comes.
I never saw it.
All I heard was the motor rev and the wheels squealing and it struck my Crown Victoria LTD from the front nose to nose and it knocked it back about 60 and it knocked me back into another car and I hit that car rolled over the hood bounced off the center of another one and then hit a concrete light pole in the parking lot so I was in the hospital for Quite a while.
My doctor told me that I was very lucky to be alive.
A couple of weeks later, I was coming out of a physical therapy treatment center, walking on a cane, very slow.
And I came around.
I was going to a car in the back of the parking lot.
And on a road, there was a Colorado Springs police cruiser with a motor in it.
And they floored the car.
It jumped the curb.
Sparks everywhere.
I was about to be crushed.
And at the last minute, he turned sideways, about four feet away from me, and shook his finger at me, and it was ATF agent Blake Butler, the nation's top cop, threatening me not to go to court.
So I drove home that night, and I was watching a movie with my wife and kid here, and I was really shook up.
I was very hurt.
I had internal injuries and all kinds of stuff.
And another vehicle, an SUV, pulls up in the front yard.
This is two weeks before the big hearing and I walked down there and it was Harold Leonard, the guy who offered me the job for a million dollars to buy on the Murrow Belly.
And I figured he was gonna kill me and I didn't care.
I just didn't want my young son to see his dad get shot.
So I went down there unarmed and I walked around and he rolled the window down and he had his hands on the steering wheel and I said, Harold, what is it?
What the hell's going on?
He said, look, He goes, you know, we've been ordered.
If you go to court and go to talk, we've been ordered to kill you.
And then he pointed up at the house and he said, we've also got orders to kill your family.
And so after all this, I'd about had it.
And I realized this game was too rigged at the time.
And I called my attorney, Harvey Steinberg, the Denver Broncos attorney, the next day.
And I told him, I said, look, we need a meeting.
And we had a meeting.
I said, I'll be guilty of anything.
I got to get these guys off of me.
I got a wife and kid, and I can't take this anymore.
And so he went to Greg Goldberg, the assistant U.S. attorney in the Tenth Circuit at that time, and we had a little short meeting, and Goldberg said, look, your case, we're getting a lot of heat on this.
He said the U.S. attorney, that was Tom Strickland, who was appointed, nominated by Bill Clinton.
I mean, I had the U.S. attorney by Bill Clinton, the judge by George Bush, There's no way.
The CIA had sealed up the tapes that I made.
Everything was a cover-up.
And there's no way to win the game.
So he just said, pick a charge, any charge.
We don't care which one.
And this whole thing's over.
And so I just pointed at the paper.
I didn't care.
I didn't know what I was pointing at.
It was dealing firearms without a license, which is a real small thing.
But I played guilty to that.
And then I was out of there and done with that.
And then years have went by.
And I waited for Clinton to get out of office and then Hillary to get out from Secretary of State.
And then I wrote this book.
It took four years to write a tithe document.
I have all the records of the car wrecks and records of all kinds of stuff in here to provide circumstantial proof.
But, Terry, I just want to say one thing.
A lot of these things in the black ops world, there is no proof.
Yeah, I know.
There is none.
I agree.
Yeah, and so people go, well, how do we know you did that, Cody?
And I said, you don't.
I said, I can tell you the truth and stand here and tell you, and that's the truth.
I know it.
It's like I love my mother, but I can't prove that to you.
It doesn't change the fact that it's true.
Yeah, that's exactly right.
Very good.
And you know, you have the psychic attack stuff.
I mean, how do you prove that?
There's no record.
If you take a bullet and you shoot somebody in the head, they can say, oh, that's an assassination.
Sure.
But if a psychic attacks you, where's the proof?
And then everyone goes, oh, you're crazy, and you're an egghead, and, you know, all the stuff.
Yeah, exactly.
Well, you know, it's really amazing that you're still alive, so is your family okay?
Yeah, they're okay.
My wife, for 31 years, had a massive heart attack, and she's gone from here.
My son's grown up.
He's like, I don't know, 19 or 20 now, so...
That's why I came out now with this book, because I don't have a family to protect now, and I'm 61 years old, and I'm totally 100%, totally and permanently disabled with severe PTSD. That's what my medical file said.
And as Olay mentioned earlier, right before I came forth last week with these interviews, we had one scheduled with Olay on that day, about an hour before the deal, my computer got completely hacked and shut down.
And then I went to my doctor, and I told him I'm fixing to go out with this Oklahoma City book.
And I want you to know I'm not doing any drugs except what you give me because I've got diabetes, so I take that.
And I said, if there's any puncture wounds or strange things, you know, I'm not going to commit suicide.
I'm not suicidal.
I want you to know that I'm doing this book and I'm coming forward and I'm not going to commit suicide.
So I have cover and we took Also, inside the United States Attorney's Office, I snuck surveillance in their equipment through all their x-ray machines and everything, and I got tapes of them in there.
I have the nation's top cop.
There were two CIA agents and some other people, and I have all those tapes.
They've never before been made public, and so I have some documentation and some proof of all this.
We have 20,000 pages of discovery evidence.
I have ATF DEA We have copies of the surveillance tapes in Operation Steamray.
We have all kinds of evidence.
Me and some Army Ranger guys went and did counter-surveillance.
They set surveillance up on our place.
So we went and did counter-surveillance on them and took pictures of them watching us.
I have all those pictures.
I have a lot of stuff.
But on some of the key issues, you know, Kerry, it's just in Black Ops, you know, we don't have any proof.
Okay, but, you know, your testimony is a kind of a proof because your knowledge, the level of knowledge that you have, and when you tell your stories, you know, they can do, people who do this sort of thing, can, you know, test your voice and your, of course, we don't see your body language, but even psychics can duplicate that and whatnot.
So, you know, there is a level of testimony here that's very compelling.
You didn't release your book yet, and you're talking about your book, and I get that, but how are you going to release your book and when?
Yeah, we're going to do it through Amazon.
In fact, I've got some guys working on that as we speak.
They're going to put it on a PDF file with Amazon.
I think they're going to sell it for like $9.99 or something like that.
So, all that's being shut up.
We had some copyright issues and stuff to take care of, but Kerry, this was not a standard publishing deal.
You know, most guys, they'll publish a book first, then go out and do the interviews.
Well, I couldn't do that.
I was afraid if I turned this book into any publisher, they'd rat me out to the CIA, and then I'd get a bunch of heat and get shut down, and someone would maybe buy the book so they could squash the rights.
Okay, I appreciate that.
You know, but at this point, you know, you're out there talking.
So, I mean, even the CIA would be surveilling you no matter what, right?
Not only are you surveilled by psychics, but electronics and probably the CIA all around the clock, right?
Well, I can't speak to what they're doing.
We have been under surveillance many times.
Captain Wilson I was trained by CIA counter-electronics agents and he taught me a lot of what he knew.
He had tens of thousands of dollars worth of real high-level equipment, but he's since passed on and that equipment was sold.
I know his phone's probably tapped and they may be watching here.
I have a dead man switch.
We took all the tape recordings and all the stuff, and I put it around to different people.
There's no traces.
We hand-delivered the stuff.
There's no records.
But I think we're over the hump now, thanks to Olay and shows like yours and Jeff Rents.
And guys, there's been a lot of exposure here real quick.
And the more exposure, generally, the funnier it looks.
If I slip on a banana peel or Fall off and shoot myself eight times with a revolver that has six shots in it.
It's going to look pretty silly.
It'll just lend credibility to the story.
The thing with it, Kerry, is not the Oklahoma City.
I'm with you on that.
This is a little thing.
This off was old.
This is an old thing.
Ole, he knows a lot more than me about all the different...
There's been so many attacks, so many different things.
What I'm trying to do is put my knowledge forward So that we can blend it in with these pool of things and find a pattern to these false flag events and hopefully prevent some of them.
At the same time, wake people up, civilians, you know, that they're working their jobs.
They don't know about all this black ops stuff and psychics and all this stuff.
And wake them up to the fact that that world is real like David Morehouse.
It's absolutely real.
You just don't see it.
Right.
Absolutely.
Well, actually, I want to ask you, some of the black ops, you know, what we call false flags, and there's a whole slew of them that has been happening for quite some time now.
There was, let's see, I'm trying to, it was Aurora, was it Aurora, Colorado?
You were in Colorado.
You know about that story, right?
Yeah.
I don't know.
I knew about Columbine.
Are you talking about the high school shooting or mind control ops?
A mind control op with a son who was a neuroscience major in college, and it involved these two financial sort of giants, which had to do with, I guess, FICO and this other one, which is called...
Gosh, what is this called?
Anyway, it all happened in the theater in Aurora, Colorado, that was in the Batman movie.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, that was another false flag.
And he was framed.
That kid was framed as a patsy.
And for all evidence, he didn't even, you know, pick up a gun.
But, you know, and of course, Sandy Hook, etc.
I mean, you must be able to watch, you know, what's going on.
Well, Vegas, for that matter, just recently.
Right, right.
Hey, did you know, Kerry, that Dr.
Julian West, who's in the CI's MKUltra program, he was associated with Sirhan Sirhan.
Well, guess where he showed up?
He showed up after Oklahoma City, after the bombing was detonated.
He was sitting down there as part of a psyops team to judge the emotional The fallout and the effect on the civilian population and so forth.
And that part of that's in my book.
I have a chapter 10, which is about CI mind control and how they, you know, the Monarch program with Kathy O'Brien and MK Ultra.
And we trace it back from the 1947 paperclip thing and how they morphed it.
And then I tell my story about the Project Clamor thing.
And so, yeah, Dr.
Julian West, the same players show up across all these events, all these different times, and there's a pattern.
And Ole is a master at correlating this vast amount of information about these ops and then picking out the patterns.
So maybe even could do some predictive analysis and find out where the next one is.
The idea is to get the truth and the light out And to stop the shadow government rape of our country and our people.
Absolutely.
Well, along those lines, you know, and I know we're keeping you for a while, and I really do appreciate your patience with all my questions, but I just want to know, do you know anything about 9-11 that you've been able to piece together on your own?
Yeah, on the day of 9-11, when it happened, I was down at Captain Glenn Wilson's house in Collar Springs.
He's once been the Chief of Police in Manitou Springs, and he ran his own Pikes Peak Investigative Service.
I have some stuff in the book about that.
This is after he'd been with Janet Reno and all that DIA stuff.
And anyway, I was at his house because he passed away by Agent F. Orange Cancer, and he asked me to take care of his wife.
We were down there talking, and I was telling her about some of the ops and the blowback.
You know, the American civilians don't realize the government's pulling dirty stuff overseas and they wonder why we get bombed and attacked.
And I said, we've got a lot of heavy karma here from all this dirty shadow government stuff.
And the day of reckoning is coming.
And that was the morning of 9-11.
I came back, I heard it on the news.
And I don't have any operational information.
I was getting towards the end of my game.
A lot of the guys we worked with were dead or gone, and I didn't know anyone that actually worked or was at the 9-11 thing like Ron Cole was down there at the Branch of Idiot, so I had no first-hand knowledge.
Most of my stuff I learned was talking to researchers like Olay and different ones, and I heard they could use nanothermite and so forth, but I never believed that official story, not for a minute, not for a minute.
I knew it was not the minute I saw it.
Right, sure.
Now I want to ask you about Project Phoenix.
You know, Project Phoenix, you talked about it in South America and some people being involved in that.
Were you familiar, because you dealt with these Vietnam vets, and my understanding is Project Phoenix actually originated in Vietnam.
Yes, it did, and I knew one of the operatives, he worked with us, I can tell you his name now, he's since deceased, but his name was Captain Robert Dukes, His front was being in the Army, but he'd been recruited out by the CI, just like they were trying to do McVeigh at Fort Benning, you know, after he got back from Desert Storm.
And anyway, Dukes, we did a few things together.
He's a good friend of mine.
And he was in the Phoenix Project.
He was one of their assassins, and he was using the Army as a front.
And they would fight these DOD files as to where he was, you know, Benoit or Da Nang or wherever, Pleiku.
And put a bunch of false stuff in there for cover.
And then he told me this stuff straight out of his mouth.
So this is a good eyewitness.
He said that he would stage through Laos and Cambodia, and he would stay with the mountain yards.
You know, they're like Native Americans over here.
You know, they just live out in villages and stay away from everything.
They didn't like the Viet Cong much.
And so he stayed there, and he had a message drop where he could get out and get these assignments.
And then they would go into North Vietnam, covertly, and his assignments were to fascinate the families of higher-ranking North NBA Army officials, like colonels or generals.
And the idea was a psyops by the CIA. What they wanted the North Vietnamese Army to know was that while they were commanding troops in the field against our American soldiers, that their families weren't safe at home.
They were hoping this would cause some defections in the higher ranks of the NDA structure.
He was specifically targeted with killing women and children.
The operational parameters in this case were to do it real messy and leave a real messy signal so that it would get back to the commanders in the field and hopefully disrupt their operational effectiveness.
That was part of his op and then he would go back And cool off for a while.
Evidently, they had a number of assassins like Rosnan and a few other ones.
And they had this team.
It was all covert.
They didn't want to tell the people back here in the States, of course, that they're murdering women and children deliberately.
But that was part of the PSYOP against the NBA Army.
And I guess it was pretty effective.
I mean, if I was out leading troops and I found out someone murdered my wife and kid, it would certainly mess me up.
Okay, but did you ever hear about targeting using psychic abilities in Vietnam?
I did never hear about that.
I have a lot of friends and different people we worked with that told me all kinds of things about that.
They worked with S4 Intelligence, all different branches, Marines, Army, and all.
But that stuff's generally higher classified.
And back then, Carrie, in the 60s, mid-60s, late 60s, I don't know if they had morphed the programs that much into the psychic stuff.
It was mostly opiate-based psychedelics with the MKUltra type stuff.
And they were splitting people's minds, building the Manchurian Candidate with sexual ritual abuse, trauma, and so forth.
You know all that.
That's all old stuff.
But I never heard of that where they used psychics.
No one that I talked to that was over there And they told me things in confidence like Captain Dukes.
He never mentioned that.
He just said his was straight assassination ops where they went over there and used guns and stuff and then left.
So did they ever tell you that Project Phoenix was also a sort of a sociological game that they were testing it in Vietnam and now they've imported it to the United States and that it involves a mind-controlled mass population?
Yeah, I know that's your question.
And field assets, you know, field assets like Captain Duke's, Using the army for front.
We're generally never allowed to know the higher up parameters in the overall operation.
They would not, as a matter of course, have that as need-to-know information.
Because if they were ever captured by the North Vietnamese, as you can well imagine, they would be tortured extensively.
So the uppers in that program that knew how it was all being really used, they would never tell a low-level field asset like that.
That's like me.
I'd be a low-level field asset, and I was never told what was going on up top because you don't want to blab the beans if you're captured.
Right.
Okay, so, you know, I'm not going to keep you too much longer, but because I deal with this area of underground bases and secret space program, etc., do you ever feel that you were sort of trained even in other ways to be sort of a, what we call them super soldiers, but they are soldiers that use psychic abilities as well as Sometimes they're augmented with various things, and you certainly have the profile for it.
So did you ever feel that you were abused for some of these much more what we call deep black operations?
Yeah, I was never a super soldier thing.
I was independent.
I told the CI, I don't want to work directly for you.
I don't want to be an agent.
I don't want to get a pension.
I want to stay the hell away from you.
I worked particular operations for money.
And that's what I did it for.
I didn't have a lot of political objectives and stuff.
I would just take bodyguarding ops like Barry Sadler or whatever.
But when it came to the Murrah Building, I wanted nothing to do with that.
My stepdad was at Pearl Harbor when it was bombed in Guadalcanal.
I was patriotic.
And I told Harold Leonard when he offered me that job, I said, I want nothing to do with this.
You guys have went too far this time.
I can understand us going to Saudi Arabia or somewhere and doing some of this stuff, but I am not going to do it in my own country.
This is our home.
This is our own country.
And I am not going to kill women and children.
You guys are nuts.
And so I was very upset that they'd even consider me for something like that.
And a million dollars, I would never consider a bombing op like that for that kind of money.
I knew it was Apache.
I've been in the operations for a long time.
I knew what they were doing.
I didn't know at that time, though, that it was the Gulf Force Syndrome and the Clintons cover-up and all the records.
I was never a super soldier.
I was never approached by any assets to be a super soldier.
I was just an independent, but I was highly psychic and part Cherokee Indian.
We do Indian medicine and stuff, and I was very attuned and aware of Sometimes, on and off, we could go to open the door, and I'd get this weird feeling, six-sense proximity-sense feeling, like just my hand would jerk back automatically.
And we'd find out later, after they filed after-action reports and stuff, that there was a sniper team over there.
I didn't know it.
I had no way to know it.
I just felt it.
And so, that's what kept me alive.
I know some guys had known that before they'd step on a booby trap or something, they'd just get a weird feeling out in the jungle, you know?
And they'd They told me these stories over and over that they'd just stop and drop down.
And then an ambush would come off and they didn't know how it worked or why it worked and they didn't talk to their CO's about it.
They just had this sixth sense that psyched them.
Okay.
And I totally agree.
You know, I'm sure that's going on all the time.
You know, especially when you're a soldier, you have these abilities, you're going to use them to save your own life and the lives of the people around you if you can, I imagine.
Certainly, yeah.
Okay, so let's fast forward to today, because you're still psychic and you're still alive.
You live in Colorado, right?
Correct.
So you must have on a psychic sort of level, and you don't have to reveal a whole lot to me, I don't mind, you can just say yes or no, but are you aware of stuff going on psychically in Colorado?
To some degree, yeah.
I use my psychic abilities now to do healings.
We work on veterans with PTSD. I gave a talk at VFW Post 11 401 here.
We work with Williamsville Warriors, the dog, you know, to get service dogs for veterans.
And I use my powers now to heal and to help.
And we do certain ceremonies here.
I run the Starlodge Healing Center here.
And we try to use our psychic powers to help Relieve the trauma from battlefield or injury.
Some of these guys have really had some bad memories and bad things.
We try to get them out, stop the dreams, and get them off the, you know, carry all the VA crap they give them, all those serotonin reuptake inhibitors and all those new drugs they're giving our guys.
We try to get them back to a more organic diet and off of all those pills and more in touch with their spiritual self as a coping mechanism, you know, instead of alcohol and drugs for all their trauma.
And so that's how I use my power now is in a good way, you know, not to make money.
We've never charged money.
I just do this as a donation thing to help our guys because I know what it's like.
Okay, so one last question and then Ole, if there's anything you want to add, I want to have you, you know, speak about that.
But at the moment, just wondering if...
If you're aware of anything in terms of the future, you know, do you use your abilities for the future and to look at the future around yourself and so on?
Yes, and I'm actually a master remote viewer, you know, like McMahon Eagle and David Morehouse.
Right.
We worked with several psychics that were involved in that You know, the aftermath of the Philadelphia experiment, when they rebooted all that stuff up later on, after they shut it down first, I've worked with some of those guys.
But yes, I do have my own psychic visions, and I do have dreams sometimes, and I'll dream something, and then about two weeks later, it happens just like in the dream.
And it's very difficult for science to understand this.
But...
We know, I've studied a little science about how the pineal gland works.
It's like an antenna, the eyes and the center of the third eye.
And so I do have my own feelings of the future.
And in fact, I'm using them right now with this interview because I have bodyguards driving around in cars out there.
I've also got guys out in the woods.
I live four feet to the National Forest.
We're in a remote location.
I have physical surveillance around this property right now while I'm Doing these interviews and then I'm also using my psychic ability as we speak to feel around, to feel if I feel anything because sometimes that sixth sense stuff is right and sometimes it's not.
Fair enough.
All right, well it's been great talking to you Cody and I really want to thank you very much for coming forward being such a brave man to do so.
It's not easy, definitely.
No, no and we all We all need to stand together in the light.
There's a darkness in our world.
There's a lot of shadow government stuff.
I feel like if we don't do something now, we're kind of like at a cusp.
You know, this could really slide off.
We could all end up with microchips in us, you know, and all those New World Order horrors and police state and all the prison planet and all that.
So I'm hoping by stepping forward that other people People will come forward and go, hey, I did back hops and I did this and I was mind controlled, you know, down there in Florida and all this happened to me and we get more and more people to, you know, it makes me nervous.
I get nervous talking about this stuff just like anyone else, but we need to get it all out in the open.
Sure.
And share information.
You share your story, Terry, and I share mine, and Ole, he's got his own.
You should hear some of his stories, too.
I mean, there's all kinds of stuff going on, and people are afraid to talk about it.
That's right.
Exactly right.
Well, thank you very much for your service to humanity at this time.
Again, Ole, are you still with us?
Sure.
Okay, so do you have any, you know, things you'd like to touch on?
You know, we have a little bit of time here.
I know we've been going for a while, but any thoughts?
One thing I just want to ask, Cody, you said that at the Wilco building, at the shootout, that there was this steel door, and you said that it was very important from what direction the bullets were fired, and I think that there was a little confusion there.
Could you please, because it's a very important detail, could you just please repeat where the shots were fired from, from the outside or the inside?
Okay, what Ron Cole told me, he was on the phone with David Koresh immediately after the shootout happened, and Koresh was bleeding, and before the FBI cut the phone lines, Koresh told him that they were all sitting around in the compound, and those two trucks came up with cattle cars, the dogs went out running, and the ATF shot the dogs, Then they started shooting at the compound.
So the Branch Cavillians then returned fire, but the bullets were coming from the ATF into the compound after they shot the dogs.
So that's the story he told me.
Exactly, because I think that you said the other way around by mistake, so I just wanted to make that clear.
What I would like to point out since we've had quite a few shows where we've been looking at these very strange bizarre patterns that are sort of combining different operations and where the same theme are being used in many different operations that are coordinated.
I just want to point out that last year this time There was a whole long series of force flag operations in Europe and in the US that had the theme of SANTA. Even DARPA had also their operations that were called SANTA and HO HO HO and so on.
So there was this bizarre SANTA, anything from the St.
Paul Catrido to this very strange witness at the Fort Lauderdale force flag operation at the airport.
This guy is Santa Paul who was giving the czar testimonials and there was different things around Christmas and Santa Paul and so on.
And at this moment there's a whole series of fires in California in Santa Rosa I'm in California so I'm surrounded by fires right now and you know thank God I'm in a place that is not being affected but it's all around me and I think you mean actually Santa Monica is on
the road to what you're talking about the Getty there's a there's a fire that cropped up on the Getty the mountain on where the Getty Museum is and we've got A whistleblower who talked about the underground base under the Getty.
This is the modern Getty, not the old one.
And that's where a fire is right now.
So what did you want to say about all that?
No, it's not the Santa Monica I'm talking about.
There's 10 different fires at the moment.
Very, very odd fires.
When you look at the devastation where houses are hit but the trees are not on fire, cars are melting, engine blocks are melting, but right next to them they're just green grass, not on fire at all.
Very bizarre thing that shows quite possible evidence of directed energy weapons used.
We have the exact same thing going on in Portugal as well.
And while these things are going on, also there are things...
Thank you.
Hello?
Can you guys hear me at all?
No, I think it must have called him back on.
So now it's now.
Thank you.
Hello?
Hello?
Are you there, Ole?
I am.
Okay, obviously they cut us off.
They cut my internet connection and dropped us off.
I'm going to try to add Cody again to the call here, but no guarantees, obviously.
I know we've been going for a while anyway, but I'm actually kind of concerned that we might lose the recording of all of this.
So I don't know what's going to happen when I try to close this down.
Just saying, I don't know what's going to go on.
I hope, you know, we've been recording it on another device.
So if we lose the video, then that's what's going to happen.
I am live again now at this moment, I believe.
I'm double-checking that my audience...
Hello?
Hello?
Hi, Cody.
You there?
Oh, hi.
What happened?
I was standing here listening to Olay talking and the phone just dropped out.
Right.
What happened is they actually dropped us off And to be honest with you, I don't know what's happening with the situation here.
I don't know if this is working.
I hope that this is recorded everything that came before.
We did record it on another device in case.
We have to, in case they try to erase it.
What they did is they knocked my internet completely off when I mentioned Santa Rosa, and we were talking about the directed energy weapons that were happening with the fires up there.
Like I said, there's been plenty of proof.
Even Richard Allen Miller has said, Those fires, you know, he has agreed.
He's a physicist, in case you don't know who he is.
And, you know, there's so much evidence that they're using kind of a directed energy weapon, and they used one in Santa Rosa.
There now appears to be evidence here in Southern California in some of these fires.
And Ole, I think that's what you were trying to reference.
Is that correct before we got knocked off?
Exactly.
Santa Rosa, Santa Clarita, I think there's another fire.
That's right.
There's 10 fires around in California at the moment around you that are not connected.
They say that they're connected, but the distance between them are too big for them to sort of spread naturally.
Yeah, absolutely.
And we have this thing that has been going on in Portugal as well.
Very, very weird fires.
You know, like, well, I'm sure you've had it on your program, but like trees burning from the inside out and all kinds of very strange phenomena, very similar to what's happening around between towers with these melting cars and so on around when the towers went down.
No doubt about it.
Can I interject just something real quick?
One of the stories I forgot to tell you, Kerry, when you asked me about some of the bi-cop stuff, we have it in this book, and it's about Army Ranger Sequest.
He was down in Central America and witnessed—he was on a bi-cop's team for the agency down there, and they witnessed a SDI test.
Back in the Reagan thing, and it was one of these particle beam weapons.
And the story's in there of what happened and how they saw it all.
But they were testing that stuff way back in the day.
And now, fast forward, here's these fires in California.
I mean, I was born in Santa Monica out there.
And these fires were very suspicious, as Olay's saying.
Absolutely.
Well, I've lived here for most of my life at this point, and I can say that they are.
I do believe some of these have been, again, started on purpose, and they have no relationship to each other.
There are certain strategic areas where I think that they're doing this.
For example, one of the things we found out in Santa Rosa in Northern California was Someone had done a survey before the fire started as it was just a serendipity.
A woman had studied the map.
She found that there was a certain area in which there was a sort of a land grab going on that they had a lot of old structures and that poor people lived in those structures.
They couldn't get them to move or anything.
And then when the fires came along, they found the fires followed those exact zoning areas where they wanted to repossess the land.
And the same thing I am thinking now is going on in Ventura County.
Which is north of me.
The Ventura fires is, again, a very, you know, a rather poor area.
Interestingly enough, there is a number of military bases right in that area, including Vandenberg.
So you've got a really interesting situation going on up there.
Then you've got these other fires that are happening at the same time.
Again, Ole, you're correct.
There's no connection between the fires.
And there's also no...
Excuse me a minute.
We've got overtime on this, and I have another interview I have to do, so I've got to cut out, but I want to thank you guys.
Thank you very much, and I appreciate all the questions.
And anytime you guys want to talk, I'll be very happy, but I've got to go.
I'm sorry.
That's okay.
No problem, Cody.
We've really enjoyed having you on the show, and please do come back again, okay?
Okay, thanks a lot.
Godspeed to you guys.
Bye-bye.
Alright, take care.
Are you still there, Ole?
I am.
Okay, so I just wanted to give you a minute or two to go ahead and talk.
That was the idea here.
We were wrapping up as it was, and I wanted you to be able to finish what you had to say.
So you're right on about the fires, but go right ahead.
No, I just want to point out because I think you're very, very right on Correct with what you're talking about because if you look at the Grenfell Tower fire in London and how that fire was used as more or less like ethnic cleansing in many poor areas or getting rid of poor immigrants and so on out of very In such areas of London,
real estate where the prices are really high but where they had a problem with these minorities still being there and how these fires and the risk of similar fires, I mean that was a total arson.
It was a staged fire but they used that To cleanse many many areas and these towers and the hundreds where people have been evacuated out of them and I think there's a similar thing going on in California as well where there's this cleansing of people in certain areas and combined these Directed energy weapons with very heavy Chemtrail spraying before.
I can almost guarantee that the last week or two in California you have had very heavy chemtrail spraying to prepare for this.
I just want to compare it with, in Sweden some years ago, there was a very, very violent storm, very bizarre, where thousands of square kilometers We're just, of forest, we're just leveled.
In one go, it just, thousands and thousands of trees just broke off.
I mean, there were, there were violence.
And it was in the exact same area where they had been planning for digging down, what do you call it, ADSL, high fiber optics for internet access, you know.
But there were problems with getting that done.
And then after the storm, boom, all the forest was already down and there you go.
I think there's a lot of these things in operation as well, these so-called natural disasters, but with too hard technology, directed energy weapons, these other things, chem training so that they can get the areas really dry beforehand and so on.
It's important to look at.
Very, very important.
Thank you for that.
Yes, we also are aware, just so you know, as I've mentioned, the Getty Fire has no relationship to the other fires.
And under the cover of a fire, you can appreciate that a lot of things can happen.
They can do a lot of things.
They can conduct operations.
And there is reason to believe that that's also what's going on here.
And I'm still investigating the locations of the various fires and why they're located in certain areas and not others.
And, you know, I have to say logically, it makes absolutely no sense.
Why it's in one area and not another.
You can see certain areas are protected and so on.
It's a whole mystery as to what they're really doing.
It looks like they think that their operation in Northern California was a success.
Now they've come down to Southern California to do whatever it is they have in mind.
And that's what we're watching at this time.
So, yeah, very, very crazy times we're living in.
But we need to stay white.
Yeah, I think it's very important to look at what areas were burnt, what buildings were burnt, but also what buildings were not.
And, like, if you're talking about military bases in that area, are there going to be any fires there?
Or are they somehow miraculously going to be saved?
I would very much suggest the possibility for the better alternative, and if so, that will show a lot of proof and who's behind it as well.
Absolutely.
Well, we could do a whole show on this subject alone, and there will be more evidence coming forward, I think, as this situation progresses here in Southern California.
So, thanks a lot, Ole.
I just want to point out this codename that they seem to be using with Santa, Santa Paul, Santa Paula, all of these Santas, and see if this pattern will continue.
Absolutely.
I agree with that.
And I just want to say one little thing.
I was in Vegas to do an interview.
I don't know if I'll ever be able to release any of that interview, so I can't say anything more about it.
But I can say that I was at the Mandalay Bay Hotel.
And there's a very interesting...
Situation there that people may not be aware of.
I don't think it ever showed up on anything, but you can tell me if you came across it.
The Mandalay Bay has a special little exhibit, you might call it.
It's part of the design of the lower gardens around the front of the hotel.
And what you get are the winged dragons, these huge statues in front of the Mandalay Bay Hotel of winged dragons.
And you can't miss them.
And I don't know that they showed up on any of the reports.
But that tells me a lot about why that particular site was chosen for the Vegas operation.
There is a link up, obviously, with the dragons and, you know, all of that Draco and so on.
So for people that might find that interesting, just throwing that out there, some more food for thought.
I just want to point out also that I'm going to do a webinar with Cody on The Nation on the 17th of December, where people can be in direct contact with him and give him their own questions and so on.
You can find details about it online on conspiracies.com, my website, and anybody who wants to sign up one cent or a hundred dollars, whatever, Everybody is welcome, so I think it's going to be really interesting.
All right.
Well, great to hear.
And, you know, we can help you try to get the word out about that upcoming.
Also want to extend my offer to both you and Cody.
You know, whenever his book is ready to go, whatever, we can help him get a free ad on Camelot to help bring direct traffic over to buy his book, maybe help him also financially.
So just keep me in the loop and we'll be glad to help.
Absolutely.
Appreciate it.
Thank you so much, Kerry.
All right.
All right.
Well, thank you, Ole.
I'm going to let you go and sign off here, everyone.
So good night.
I know it's nighttime where you are, Ole, and thanks again for bringing this wonderful whistleblower forward.
You're most welcome.
We made it.
After all this technical stuff, we made it in the end.
Yeah, and I hope the YouTube has survived, but just everyone know that if it hasn't, we will be able to upload the audio, so we will do that if there's any problems when they knocked me off the internet.
Yeah, so it remains to be seen whether it's there or not, but we'll see.
We hope so.
All right, take care.
Good night.
Bye-bye.
Okay, so that's the show for today, and thank you everyone for listening and for your patience.
Hope those who have missed the show, it's...
Boy, it contains some very important information, let me say that, especially about the remote viewing and all of that and how they can kill people at long distance because this is a carefully hidden area of remote viewing that never gets talked about.
It's great to have somebody testify in that area.
So thanks again for watching and for listening.
And we'll be back tomorrow with Paladin is going to be on the show tomorrow night.
And we're going to be, I think it's 7 p.m.
Pacific, if I remember correctly.
And he's going to be talking about the history of the White Hats, the documentation they came across that documents the Black Project money and all of the fraud that the cabal has been involved in, etc.
So that'll be a fascinating show.
So please do...
Stay tuned for that tomorrow and I'll be putting that out there, tweeting it and so on on my site.
So please do support our work.
We do need funding to keep going and you can always donate on the donate button on Project Camelot.tv.
So please consider doing so just to keep us operating.
There's a lot going on, a lot that needs to be covered and obviously we're having some pretty strong obstacles.
Crop up every now and then.
It helps to have support out there.
And so thank you again and take care and have a great day.
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