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Jan. 17, 2012 - Project Camelot
02:30:26
PROJECT CAMELOT : BILL WOOD : ABOVE & BEYOND PROJECT LOOKING GLASS
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Transcription by CastingWords
Transcription by CastingWords I'm here with Bill Wood.
He's going to be talking about his experiences as part of a special unit, a SEAL unit, in Iraq and other places around the globe as part of the American military.
Some of this testimony may be considered to be in violation of his national security oath, but we are going to be trying to stay within the parameters of that, and he is going to, first of all, speak on The subject of a disclaimer in regard to a project that he is using this for on a personal level.
Hi.
I just want to disclose to everybody that I am writing a fictional book about this interview and the things that I discuss in this interview.
And the reason for this interview is for purposes of marketing that book.
And that book of course is fictional.
Okay, great.
And so at this point, we are going to start in the beginning and I'd like you to talk about why you came and contacted me and what group or groups you, in a certain sense, represent, if you want to use it sort of loosely in that term.
Okay.
Basically, I don't really have any group that I represent.
However, there are many, many people Both former and current military that have a huge amount of concern over what the members of the military know to be what's really going on in the Middle East and places that we are occupying currently outside of this country.
Those concerns have grown more and more throughout the years, and it's to the point where a lot of these current and former military members speak.
The best description of these military members would be Oath Keepers.
And an Oath Keeper is somebody who basically focuses primarily on the oath that they took when they joined the service What they're ordered to keep secret or to tell is secret as opposed to what is in the best interest of the Constitution and the country.
Okay.
Let's say also that there's a purpose behind this that has to do with the NDA. The main purpose for this interview was the enactment of the National Defense Authorization Act.
The individuals that I speak with on a regular basis have grown a consensus that this is the The end of the erosion of our constitutional rights and it pretty clearly spells out in a lot of paperwork that America has been declared a war zone and American citizens are subject to arrest and detainment outside of the constitutional protections.
Trial by jury, the right to an attorney, the right to being charged with a crime even is stripped away in that bill.
I don't believe most of the American public has been properly informed via the media, so we're trying to get the message out and get some support.
In the fact that we cannot continue to allow the progressive erosion of the constitutional rights and expect to have our rights ever be taken seriously at some point.
Okay, so at this point, Bill, when you approached me, I really had no idea what this was going to be about.
And it was quite surprising that you had the kind of disclosures that you have.
And some of the background that you have.
So what I'd like to do is go back through your testimony, because at the time I didn't have a camera, and I do want to say that we're in a public place here, but we are forced to be in this kind of a public place for a number of reasons that I can't explain on camera, but take it from me, there's a purpose for this.
And at this moment, what I'd like you to do is start from the beginning, The way you did with me.
And eventually, I want to work our way to some of the more what you might call top secret disclosures that happen later on.
Some of the experiences You're going to be relating, at this time, may not be considered quite as risque or damaging to the US military as might otherwise have been perceived back in those days.
Back in those days, you had a very special clearance, and so I would like you to talk as much about that clearance In setting up, you know, setting the stage for the story as possible.
Okay.
So, in June of 91, I joined the U.S. Navy, and I was less than a year into my Navy experience in training in Fireheart Control Men A School when I was approached to take part in a special team.
At the time I wasn't really told that much about it other than it was secret.
But from my background and my family involvement in the military, I was excited to take the opportunity.
Shortly after that, I was reassigned to San Diego, California, and was assigned to a ship that was being built.
So that gave me a lot of time to go to schools, which That comes in handy at this point because very quickly after that I was taken to this special training school and found out the details.
The details of which were the basic sense is that I would be controlling Tomahawk cruise missiles.
And using specialized equipment that nobody really knew about in order to fly those missiles from when they come over the horizon to line of sight of the target and to drive the missile directly into the target and Be able to verify prior to the targeting of any kind of building or designation that it is the target that we are looking for and then it is
approached and the Tomahawk missiles are used against it effectively and then we also do bomb damage assessment after that.
Okay, but the reason you got involved in all of this is because the Americans found...
Was it during the first Iraq War that their tomahawk missiles were going off target?
There was a problem with tomahawk missiles in the first Persian Gulf War.
And if anybody can remember the baby food factory incident, when buildings tend to look alike, they...
The Tomahawk missiles have trouble telling which one's which.
And the problem that they had, or that they found they had, was that it made the missiles only about 70% accurate.
And that was a big problem because we ended up blowing up buildings that the Iraqis would then put on the TV and say they're blowing up baby food factories.
And that tended to negatively affect us on the news, so we had to come up with a solution to that problem.
Okay, and so they brought you and people like you on board.
Can you explain why you were selected?
The primary reason I was selected was A, because of my background.
I came from a military family.
And B, because of my qualifying scores during training.
I found out later that they selected the people who knew absolutely everything about everything and were very good at taking tests and very good at solving problems, which is what it eventually came down to.
It was after that that I found out that I not only scored very high on the test, I got a perfect score on the test, which is one of the main reasons I was approached, and the others in my group were approached.
Okay, so what kind of a test was it though?
Does it test your intelligence?
Does it test your, I don't know, is there a physical test as well?
The test, the original test was the ASVAB test and that is just a standard military test that tests many aspects of How intelligent you are,
how you process problem solving, how you approach different situations, and ultimately how much knowledge you have on many, many diverse subjects.
When it comes down to it, it's an overblown IQ test and relates mostly to your cognitive reasoning skills.
Alright, and...
Was there a physical test as well?
No, physical testing wasn't necessary for this project.
Intelligence was more important.
They later proved that the physical portion they could fix.
Making somebody smarter, very difficult to do.
Okay.
Right here, I know that this is kind of going way ahead, but at a certain point you were trained And selected also, you found out later, because of your psychic ability.
Is that right?
I guess the proper term would be potential.
Everybody possesses a certain amount of inherent ability towards upper level thinking.
It really matters as to how prone they are to being able to effectively use it and not let Lies get in the way.
Okay, and so you were trained in a very special place to enhance those skills, is that right?
Lots of special places, but one in particular that I think people would find most fascinating, yes.
Which is?
One place that I was able to train at in particular that people would be familiar with is Area 51.
I was able to go there for a single training course that was popularly entitled Advanced Sci.
And basically what that class did for us is teach us to use advanced intuition.
Basically, bringing out your ability to know things ahead of time, predict things, delving into reading minds and predicting the future, if you want to use plain English to get into it.
Okay, and would you say that you were trained as a remote viewer?
Certainly that goes into the ballpark or the wider spectrum of what we are being trained to do.
The wide spectrum is to trust and hone and use your intuition effectively enough that you could rely on it in tactical situations to give you more information than your five senses were giving you.
Okay, and you and the other people you work with were a group of nine people, is that correct?
We were a group of more than nine, but it was nine people that operated.
We had officers and senior enlisted that helped us and support staff, but essentially it was nine people that were trained to do the job, yes.
Okay, and is that nine people to go into the field?
Yes.
And so you went to school, and then what happened?
At what point did you start to be deployed, or what was the trajectory?
In 92, at the end of 92, we started to be deployed on missions.
The basic overview of a mission would be to Get to a target, usually by some extraordinary means of jumping out of an airplane or walking further than most people would imagine.
Getting within the line of sight of a target.
Setting up electronic equipment that would allow us to control the cruise missile via line of sight.
Wait for the missile to come inbound.
Sync up.
With the bird as it was in flight and then use regular airplane type controls on the box or the targeter that for what people know today would be essentially flying a Tomahawk missile just like an operator would fly a regular drone aircraft nowadays.
In my description, I would say the Tomahawk missiles were the first generation of drone aircraft.
Okay, so did you have to have computer skills, special computer skills to operate something like this?
We were highly, highly trained in advanced electronics, optics, electromagnetic devices, motors, synchro servos, and also radar and laser energy.
Okay, could you repeat that last line?
The whole thing?
Okay.
We were highly trained in advanced electronics.
We also did a special amount of work with optics, with electromagnetic devices, motors, servos, synchros, and a lot of information about radar and laser systems.
Okay.
And so far, have we violated any kind of a security oath?
Not yet.
Okay.
No, but I'm just going to ask you that periodically just so that we can sort of monitor that situation.
Because we don't want to endanger lives any more than necessary here.
You know, both of us are adults and know what we're getting involved in here.
At that point, you must have been deployed to a ship, right?
We were deployed.
I was deployed on several ships during my career.
But on this particular occasion, yes, I was deployed to an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer.
Okay.
And where was this based?
It was based out of originally San Diego and then later moved to Japan.
Okay.
And so from this point, can you describe the team you worked with briefly and then how you were sent out on missions and where specifically the problems began?
Originally, we were deployed to missions throughout the Middle East in various countries.
The one that mainly I spent time in was Iraq and that area of the Middle East.
To most people's understanding, I think everybody thinks that the Gulf War ended shortly after it began in 1991.
However, I do have personal experiences that would say that The level of occupation and the level of violence that the American military perpetrated between 1992 and 2000 would be surprising to most people, I believe.
Right.
So, at this point, you were deployed with a team on these missions, is that right?
Right.
Basically, the designation that we had was SEAL Team 9.
Now, if you do all of your research, you find out SEAL Team 9 doesn't exist.
That's okay.
Until recently, SIL Team 6 also had the same level of security and also didn't exist until shortly after we killed Bin Laden.
And then a couple of months after that, a helicopter was blown up and then SIL Team 6 really didn't exist.
Okay, and they didn't actually kill bin Laden on that foray either?
Based on the information that I had during the time that I was in the military, I do not believe Osama bin Laden was alive in 2011 when he was reported killed.
Okay, so you were deployed on missions and you were a group of three, is that right?
Yes, we were actually three groups of three.
We went out in three-man teams.
Basically, we were all trained to do each other's jobs, but we tended to do our individual jobs mostly.
We had a team leader who was a first-class petty officer.
We also had another member of our team who tended to concentrate mostly on weapons and protecting everybody while I was doing my job mostly.
And then I ended up running the equipment most often and flying the Tomahawk missiles and the air surveillance drones that we would use to also cover our butts when we were moving around.
Okay, so you were targeting the missile in other words?
Yes.
Okay.
From when I started operating in about 1992 to about 1995, most of the missions that we were performing seemed military targets and above board and worthwhile for the level of effort that we were putting into it.
Although we were not at war.
Although we were not at war, we were going after viable quote-unquote targets or things that at least seemed viable from the outside.
Okay.
So in a sense, if we're not at war, for us to be sending a Tomahawk missile to bomb, even in a military installation in another country, is technically an act of war, is it not?
It's very much an act of war and completely violates UN rules and regulations, yes.
Okay.
And so you were doing this on a regular basis?
Yes.
As part of a top secret group?
Correct.
Okay.
Are you able to describe what kind of clearance you had?
The level of clearance that I had or the designation for my top level or top secret level clearance would be Indigo.
And Indigo was a level of clearance that anybody that worked with Tomahawk missiles got that was related to Still Team 9.
Okay, so we're having a helicopter fly over quite low at this moment.
I'm not sure why, but it's an interesting dynamic.
So we're just gonna wait just a brief minute here and see if we can hear it disappear.
Okay, so...
So at this point, you were doing targets and you were doing them in what countries?
Throughout the Middle East.
Do you want to name some of those countries?
Some of the big ones that everybody would recognize, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, one or two in Iran, Yemen, Syria.
Libya.
Those are the ones that people would be most appreciated knowing about.
Would this be termed asymmetrical warfare?
Very much so.
Based on the fact that the level of industrial revolution complex material that we're using against these countries, they had nothing that could counteract it or prevent it.
Okay, so let's describe the missile itself, its range and its capability, and then the idea that I think you said that ultimately you were targeting two.
Is that right?
Correct.
Tomahawk missiles are, yeah, you like that?
Okay, we're having more helicopter flyovers here.
Not sure what.
We're in an actually shopping center in Malibu.
I'm not sure why we would be having some flyovers here.
Popular.
I mean, there's plenty of helicopter activity in the Malibu area, but it's usually along the coast, just FYI. Okay, so we'll come right along.
The capability of the missile itself.
How Tomahawk missiles work, they're normally sea-based launch missiles.
The primary launch platform was either a Los Angeles-class fast attack submarine or an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer.
There's certainly other ships in the Navy's arsenal that can launch those missiles, but that wasn't their primary purpose.
Once a missile was launched from a ship, it would It would go along pre-programmed waypoints until it got close to the target, and then it would use a combination of radar lasers and terrain mapping to snake its way through the land masses until it got within the line of sight of a target.
The official version of what a Tomahawk missile would do at that point was compare a picture of the target to a picture that it has in its database and designate itself upon that target based on what was inputted up to it shortly before it was launched.
At that point, we could interrupt the flight path of the missile by sinking to it With a special piece of equipment.
I'm sorry, we have a helicopter again flying very low over this building.
I mean, if this continues, we'll probably have to move on to some other location.
That's fine.
I can't for the life of me imagine why it keeps going over and over.
No.
Okay.
Okay.
Just back up a tiny bit.
Okay.
Once the...
So you say that there was an official version of the targeting, right?
Of how it targets.
And then there's an unofficial version that you were involved in.
Is that correct?
Correct.
And the...
The way that I got involved in the launch of a Tomahawk missile was with a special piece of equipment that we had with us.
We could get in between line of sight of the missile and the target and sync up with the missile and control it remotely from That piece of equipment.
And basically, the only thing that that does is control it just like everybody would understand how a drone is controlled by a pilot that's stationed in Las Vegas when the drone is in the Middle East.
Okay, but you actually did seem to go on location.
Correct.
We had to be on location because back then the only way to exchange information fast enough with the missile system would be to be within line of sight of it.
Of the target?
Of the missile and the target.
And the target.
Okay, interesting.
So you did need protection, obviously, being somewhere in the vicinity of the target.
Is that correct?
Correct.
And that's where all that cool advanced training came in.
Experts at counter-detection and counter-surveillance certainly aided in our cause as well as...
Okay, we have another helicopter going on.
This one's different, though.
Yeah, isn't it?
Not the same one.
Not the same.
Okay, so...
But at this point, we haven't really answered the question as to the capability of the missile itself.
Capabilities of the missiles...
Could be altered quite a bit.
They do have the bomb load capacity of a thousand pounds.
There was generally two types of Tomahawk missiles, one that would carry cluster bombs and a main explosive charge, and then the other missiles would just carry an explosive charge.
Generally, I would deal with both kinds of missiles.
However, the cluster bombs would have been dropped prior to me ever seeing the missile.
That would have been done remotely, usually.
By someone else?
By the missile itself on a pre-program path.
Cluster bombs usually are anti-personnel or small, soft targets.
When we were designating targets, we were usually going after buildings.
Okay, interesting.
So, you also talked about the cost of each missile.
That was one of the things that we always questioned.
They were amazingly expensive, $1.2 million each.
And...
Let's just say that the one unclassified thing that I can talk about, Tom Hawk missiles, is to encourage everybody to get online and figure out how many were used between 1992 and 2000 and see if those numbers ring true with the fact that we weren't at war.
Okay, very good point.
Well, let me ask you that question.
Do you have any idea of the numbers?
Hundreds, probably pushing into the thousands.
Okay, but you were sent out on missions, didn't you say every month?
So once a month you would be doing a, what is in essence a bombing mission?
On average, I'm just one of three teams as well.
So would you say that all three teams were sent out at least once a month?
Though we were highly compartmentalized and I wouldn't know, I can reasonably assume that we all did just as many missions, yes.
Okay.
Is this the sound of a helicopter still?
Interesting.
It's like hovering.
Yes.
Just right there.
Okay.
Do you feel threatened at all by that?
No, but it only has to do with what I've been through and not that I don't think your concerns are unreasonable.
Oh, okay.
Okay, interesting.
Yeah.
Well, I guess we're going to wait and see what happens here.
We may actually have to move on.
So, at this juncture...
What we haven't talked about, again, is the amount of damage that could be done by one missile.
And then explain the notion that you used two after a while and when you started using two.
The most important thing to know about Tomahawk missiles was the material that they used for their explosive.
It was called DESTEX. And the easiest way to explain DESTEX Is C4 that you need a lot, lot less to cause the same amount of explosion.
So 500 pounds of Destex would be the equivalent of 2,000 pounds of C4. Okay.
An explosive potential.
And because I don't know anything about this, can you give me a radius?
So if you targeted a building, what radius of damage would happen?
The shockwave would destroy everything between 50 and 100 yards of the building.
Okay.
Loss of life would be almost complete at 100 yards.
Almost complete at what?
A hundred yards.
Anybody within a hundred yards of the bomb would...
the overpressure is...
Okay.
And what about further away than that?
Beyond that is the potential for dying from anything from weak blood vessels in your brain to debris.
And that would spread over a much greater distance depending on the target.
Okay, and these installations or buildings that you were You had intelligence that gave you background on why that target was selected.
Is that correct?
Correct.
We always were given the information about the target and what it was supposed to be and, you know, how we were supposed to be doing the mission.
Later on, after we'd been doing it for several years, we tended to question that information based on the fact that we found that more often than not, the information was either kind of wrong all the way up to completely wrong.
Okay.
I just want to make sure that we cover this sort of preliminary until you go to the blow by blow of what went on.
And we are still having helicopters in the vicinity, in the background.
What do you think?
Should we change and go to my house?
I think if we ever want to get it done, we should change.
This is not going away.
And I was thinking about that long before you were.
I am here with Bill Wood and we have had to move from our location where we were to a more private situation in order to take this testimony because we have been overflown by repeated number of helicopters that simply did not want to go away, right?
They were there long before the interview.
Okay.
But they made themselves very, very prominent during the interview, I have to say.
And we will have kept that on this tape, and I plan to use that part.
Okay?
I'm used to the attention.
I'm sorry?
I'm used to the attention.
Oh, alright.
Fine.
Well, I'm not quite used to that degree of attention, let's put it that way.
For me, this was something of an unusual situation.
But at this moment, what I'd like to do is just maybe summarize what we've talked about before, because in case we do have any issues, having helicopters fly over is fine.
It's a problem, of course, but if they're shooting an electronic pulse at the camera simultaneously, then The footage that we've already shot could have been affected.
And what we have talked about has been excellent so far.
What I'd like to do is recap it in as short amount of time as you can.
And what we're covering here is the team that you were part of, the part of the service, the special training, and the capability of the Tomahawk.
Okay.
Basically, my military career was such that I was in the United States Navy from June of 1991 until June of 2001.
In that time, I served in a special unit called SEAL Team 9.
We were trained primarily to use us as an asset to control and handle Tomahawk cruise missiles that were used inside the Persian Gulf region in the Middle East throughout the time frame of 1992 to 2000, to my knowledge.
And those missiles were used in a capacity similar to what people would understand how drones are used today, both as intelligence gathering, but obviously the endgame with Tomahawk missiles was to blow something up at the end of the flight.
So that's what we would do over a secure link.
We would get the equipment ready, wait for the Tomahawk missile to come inbound, sync up with the missile, and then control it through its terminal phase of flight.
And then after detonation, we would do bomb damage assessment and then get out of the area quiet as ghosts.
Tomahawk cruise missiles are usually sea launched.
So, from that point on, you're in 1995 and you're still being called out.
When you're not doing these assignments, these once a month assignments, you are on the ship doing other jobs?
Yeah.
We were perfectly capable of fixing regular radar weapons equipment.
Weapons platforms.
I worked on one very specifically called Close-In Weapon System.
I also worked with the Harpoon Weapon System, the 5-inch Gun Weapon System, and the Aegis Weapon System.
So I'm an early bird-class destroyer.
I was qualified to take care of a lot of equipment, which came in handy.
Okay.
And so you were, and I guess, did you enlist?
Yes.
Okay, so this was a choice?
Yes.
There was no draft at that point.
Everybody that was in the military was their free choosing.
Okay, and I know this is slightly a digression, but you chose the military.
Why?
I come from a military family.
My uncle was a command master chief in the Navy and retired after 30 years.
I believe he made it up as high as somewhere between the third and the fifth highest ranking enlisted person in the Navy while he was there.
And when I was very young, I got to ride on the USS Missouri when it was recommissioned.
And I was pretty addicted after that.
Okay.
That being a ship?
Yes, it was one of the eight battleships that were recommissioned shortly before the first Gulf War.
Okay.
And did you have other members of the family that were also in the military or just your uncle?
My brother was in the military, the US Navy at the same time I was, and a cousin.
My uncle's son was in the Navy also at the same time that I was.
But not your father?
Not my father, no.
Okay.
Okay, well, from this point on, 1995, you start noticing there's a change in targets.
I mean, do you really think there was a change, or do you think that your perception for some reason changed?
No, there was definitely a change.
When you couple the seemingly insignificant aspects of the targets and evolve that with the amount of overkill that we were using when we would use these small buildings as targets, it would be what I would term as a massive amount of overkill.
And it was when that started happening that we began to ask questions about, is the intelligence correct?
Are we getting the right information?
Why are we going after these tiny targets with massive amounts of ordnance?
Okay, and in many cases, it sounds like you didn't work in cities, as I think we talked about.
You seem to be on the fringes in the country, and what you're talking about are really small villages.
Small villages, out-of-the-way places.
In that part of the world, that's how most of the rural population lives.
Large cities tend to be, you know, Relatively obscure in any part of the country except for maybe the capital.
Okay.
So, at this point, it's 1995.
What happens to, is there any incident that specifically happens?
It progresses up to April of 97, when we were out on a mission, and like I was telling you about the dual Tomahawk missiles, normally it wasn't a big deal.
They would come in right behind each other, it would be boom, boom, and There wouldn't be many issues, but in April of 97, I had an incident where the second missile came in five minutes late.
And I was faced with the prospect of hundreds of people If I was pouring through the debris of the first Tomahawk missile, being right on top of where the second Tomahawk missile was going to be designated, it would have killed hundreds of innocent rescue workers if I re-designated that target five minutes later.
I had an aspect of conscience that made it so I chose not to detonate the second missile on top of those rescue workers, and that was against standing orders and got me in a lot of trouble.
Okay.
So, but can you describe it in a little more, fill in the blanks, You know, for the people that are listening, because this was a village in northern Iraq, was it not?
Correct.
And then also describe, you know, maybe a little bit more blow by blow, that incident and what you did with the missile.
When the first detonation went off, it took out a small two-story building That was kind of set off away from most of the other area.
When the missile did detonate, a huge number of people from the surrounding village came in to go through the debris and find any survivors and help people that were injured because there was A large amount of collateral damage in and around the building as well.
Smaller buildings, homes were knocked over or torn to bits, and there was a lot of injured people.
So, and what you were saying was that the impulse of the townspeople when any building is targeted is afterwards is to rush in to sort of deal with the wounded or handle the situation, right?
Yes, and that was normal for my experiences to see people go in after the detonation and Do what they could to help the people that were inside or the people that were hurt outside.
Okay, and so at that point what happened?
At that point I made the decision not to detonate the tomahawk on its designated target and I flew it safely off into a mountain and detonated it there or it didn't hurt anybody.
Okay, and What people need to understand is that you were completely in charge of the controls at that point, right?
Yes.
So it wasn't the other two people that you're working with that necessarily agreed with that decision?
This was your own decision?
This was my own decision, and there was nothing that the other two people could have done to make it happen.
Because there was just no time in between when they realized something was up and then the missile was destroyed instantly after that.
Okay.
Certainly they realized afterwards what I'd done that it wasn't going to go good when we got home.
All right.
And at this point you were in northern Iraq?
Yes.
And how far away from the place of detonation, so to speak, were you?
At that time we were probably two miles away.
But you had line of sight, as you call it.
Yes.
We always tried to get up as high as possible and extend line of sight as far as we could.
Didn't need to get close, so we tried not to.
Okay, and as far as that goes, what do you use for line of sight, just out of curiosity?
Were you using some specialized equipment in order to see The box, as we called it, would use a narrowband microwave frequency that was encrypted to sync up with the missile when it came into line of sight.
The reason we would use that type of communication is because it was hard to interrupt or jam.
Okay, but...
So your visual was good.
Is that what you're saying?
Well, we would have visual of the target, but I would also have visual of the target via the camera in the tomahawk.
I see.
I could fly it via the camera.
Oh, really?
So you actually were riding, in a sense, riding along with the missile when it went to its target?
Yeah.
Wow.
The fact that there's cameras in Tomahawk missiles was ultra top secret.
Then I happened to notice when we were launching Tomahawks on Libya just last year that they showed the camera picture from the Tomahawk and I just wondered if most people knew how many things they saw on TV that 10 years ago were ultra top secret.
Yeah, well, no, I think that that's important for people to realize is that what's happening right now is that we have an asymmetrical war being conducted Just as it was back then, the difference, I think, is that some of these incidents do get reported in the news.
We do hear about the U.S., for example, attacking in areas of Pakistan, areas of Syria, from what I understand, periodically, right?
Yes, and a lot of that information doesn't come from journalists or news reporters.
It comes from Assets that I would say are doing what they can to fight for the country even though they work for the military.
Okay.
Okay.
To trying to get the word out as to what our government is actually up to.
I believe the proper term is whistleblowers.
Okay.
He-ra, or as they say, whatever.
So...
What happened?
Okay, so this happened, and then what happened when you returned?
Or what was the direction?
Nothing per se happened when I returned, but a month after that incident, I found myself facing a general court-martial for unrelated charges.
Okay, so you literally went back to base and there was no repercussions?
No one once said, what did you do with the other missile?
Why did you fly it off target?
Oh, during debrief, I mean, there was some very upset people, and why did you do?
And many, many, many conversations with many different people about saying exactly what I said to the person before them, but...
I was adamant that it was a mission gone bad and I wasn't going to kill a whole bunch of rescue workers, and I thought it was left at that.
So you continued to be called on assignments after that, right?
You and your team.
I didn't go on another mission before I was facing court-martial, no.
And what was the period of time between those two things?
It was a month or less.
Oh, so you immediately were, it's pretty much, I mean, one month of downtime and then you were called into court martial.
Yeah.
Okay, and that was for what?
That was for what they said was child rape, which definitely was not true.
Okay, so basically you're based on a boat, you know, ship, from 1992 until this time, which was 97?
Oh.
Yes, I was based on a ship, but realized we weren't always on the ship and we weren't always in the Persian Gulf.
Okay, so was this on leave, an incident that happened when you were on leave?
This was an incident that happened two years earlier when we were back in home port in San Diego.
Okay, and just to summarize that quickly, the situation was what?
The situation, what actually happened was I found myself in a situation where I was having consensual sex with a 16-year-old girl when I was 25 years old.
Not what they characterized it in my court martial ass.
Okay, so she was 16, but even that was underage, or I don't even know what the laws are.
Well, the laws in California at the time were that 16- and 17-year-olds could consent.
That law has since changed.
Now it's a misdemeanor.
For 16 and 17-year-olds to have sex with people over the age of 18, which is why I didn't get charged in the civilian community.
I was charged via court-martial.
Okay, so they went back two years prior and charged you, and did you know why, like, I mean, you basically put two and two together and figured that they were targeting you somehow.
Can you describe what the rationale is on the part of the military and how they, you explained how they kind of have something on each person?
Well, the rationale is obvious.
The military has something that they can use against you, which in my particular case was obvious.
They can not only use the situation, but blow it completely out of proportion.
And in the military justice system, there is no real recourse to...
Being able to prove yourself innocent of charges.
More typically, you're found guilty long before you ever make it into your court-martial.
You don't have the right of a jury of your peers.
Your jury consists of military personnel that are senior to you in rank and that have An overwhelming desire to protect their career over what they decide in your court-martial.
So, in other words, they're sort of conditioned to find you guilty regardless because that works in their favor.
Absolutely.
Because if you go into a room being told by somebody that's in authority over you that a person is guilty, it's nearly impossible to be an impartial juror at that point.
I think Bradley Manning could tell us all about that.
Yeah, no, that's pertinent, actually.
Okay, so at this point, you've actually, you know, gone against orders.
They decided they want to pull you back into rank or whatever you call that rank and file.
So what did happen then?
Shortly after I was charged, I was contacted by my SEAL Team lead officer, who was a lieutenant, and he gave me the option of rolling the dice and facing my court-martial and pretty much guaranteeing that I would spend 11 years in Leavenworth, Kansas.
I could take a slap on the wrist, plead guilty to something completely innocuous, and go back to work, and do my job as a good sailor would, and blow up targets with Tumat missiles, and not say anything about it to anybody.
That's what I chose to do.
And you also suggested that they sort of had something on the other members of your team as well?
I believe they had something on every member of our team because we all had at least one skeleton that we all knew about.
So it was definitely something that would make it so they could pick and choose and destroy the life and career of any member of our team and easily get away with it.
Okay, if for some reason one of them decided not to follow orders or be insubordinate in some kind of fashion.
Correct, or something similar to what I did.
All right, so when you did what you did, did you have the sympathy, assuming that everyone found out about it, did you have the sympathy not only of the people, you know, the two on your team, but other team members, or was there, you know, Were they not sympathetic?
Yes and no.
Really, the only two people that had all the information were the two people that were on my team.
We were fairly well compartmentalized from each other.
The other members of the other two teams got the military's version of the story long before they ever heard mine.
When you're given the military version and the guy you know's version, it's very conflicting.
I'm sure most people saw it for exactly what it was, but at the same time didn't want to believe anything but the military version because they don't want to think about the reality if my version was the true version.
Okay.
Because what your version, in essence, said was that not only was two Tomahawk missiles overkill to begin with, but that on top of it, these were soft targets and that targets in and of themselves were suspicious, right?
Correct.
And basically, Hammering me let everybody else know in the group that all the complaining and all of the trying to bring out the reality of what was happening was not appreciated and it didn't matter.
It made every member of the team feel like they ultimately had a gun to their head and free will wasn't an option.
Do your job.
Don't think.
So what happened at this point?
You accepted the deal, and then what happened?
I accepted the deal.
I pled guilty to a charge of unlawful carnal knowledge of a minor, I swear.
Very Van Halen, but...
Okay.
And went back to work under the guise that I was in jail.
Everybody that I was related to or that was involved in the court-martial was told that I pled guilty and went to jail.
What actually happened was I pled guilty, got on an airplane, and proceeded to spend the next three years in the Persian Gulf doing my job.
Okay.
Interesting.
So you're saying the civilian world Is that what you're talking about?
Yes.
The civilian world heard you were charged with this and pled guilty?
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So then you went back to work, and you were basically...
So then at that point, what happened?
I mean, you continued to target soft targets?
At that point, it was fairly obvious that we were the team that would get the hardest targets.
Not militarily hard, but the hardest to blow up.
Meaning the softest targets?
The softest targets, the ones that were most obviously not military assets, not worth the amount of explosives that we were using.
At that point, the targets became plainly obvious that it was a terrorist-based mission, and the reasons that we used the missiles and the explosives and where we targeted was to scare people and not to blow things up.
Okay, but you did blow things up.
Yeah, but it was not...
The destruction wasn't the main mission.
The main mission was to scare the people that survived and get them talking.
Was it to turn them...
I guess I'm kind of...
It's interesting because at that point they have like a captive audience, so to speak, in you guys, such that they can do whatever they want with you and you can't complain, you can't object because you're sort of under a certain level of coercion to be quiet, right, and do your job, regardless of what they ask you to do.
So they can really sort of run you all over the countries doing whatever they want But how does this sort of state-sponsored terrorism, as it were, facilitate an agenda?
Do you know how it links up?
I can see it more properly in hindsight now, but it's very easy to understand.
What we were doing was creating the problem.
When enough people are left behind with enough dead and injured relatives that strapping a bomb on themselves and doing a suicide mission seems very reasonable.
After your mother, your father, your wife, your sisters, your brothers, your sons, your daughters are killed in a Tomahawk missile attack.
Which they knew would be an American attack, right?
They knew better than anybody that they were American missile attacks.
Most Iraqis were well aware of Tomahawk missiles, what they did, how they did it, and more importantly, how many people they killed.
It was a big deal to them.
They didn't like that terrorism.
So in a sense, it was homegrown terrorism being bred out of these incidents that the U.S. was actually creating the problem, as you rightly said.
Correct.
That also coupled with our occupation of bases in Saudi Arabia.
Plenty of people in Saudi Arabia were very, very unhappy about us being there long after the first Gulf War.
This is 1997.
You've been called back on duty and you said for the next three years you're given targets that are highly suspicious and basically we are Creating terrorists that will sort of facilitate the so-called war on terror by actually manifesting that ourselves.
Correct.
I can unequivocally say that the targets that we were given and the way we were used It was solely for the purpose of creating massive amounts of fear in the general public of Northern Iraq and rumors and stories of which filtered all throughout
the Middle East.
Definitely in 1998 I would say that the average Middle Eastern person knew for sure that the U.S. military was targeting civilians under the guise of combating terrorism.
At that point, your sort of mental state must not have been great, right?
No.
I was very distant and dark.
I was only able to deal with the fact that I had to do what I did because I knew that the consequences would just put me in jail.
Would you say that that was true of the other team members as well?
Certainly, everybody was well aware of my situation after that.
My situation, coupled with the targets and the evolution of what we were doing as far as warfare, was plainly obvious to everybody that was performing missions.
Okay.
So what happened then, at that point?
Basically, we continued on and continued on to go after these soft targets and do our jobs and not really say anything.
That climaxed in December of 2000.
For me and my group.
During the time that we operated in Northern Iraq, we found certain groups of indigenous population that we would consider assets.
And would use on a semi-regular basis to accomplish our missions.
In turn, we would help the indigenous people of the villages with food, water, ammunition, protection, intelligence.
Give them what we could to pay them back for the kindness that they offered us when we needed help.
Okay, and these individuals or the villages where you were finding shelter, so to speak, were they among Kurds or among Shiites?
Kurds and Shiites.
Sunni sect wouldn't help us.
But the Shiites and the Kurds, they were more than happy to try and do something Positive for their country to try and help the U.S. military so eventually the dictatorship that existed in the country would eventually fall and they would have democracy and freedom.
That's what they believed.
That's the rationale that they were sold, so to speak.
Yeah, I mean, it wasn't propaganda.
It was more of a choice between the lesser of two evils, I guess is the easiest way to say it.
So this went on until 2000, and then what happened?
In December of 2000, we came back to a village that we were using as an asset.
And on the mission before this one, we had gotten intelligence from the village elder that described an imminent attack on U.S. soil that involved pilots.
Did not understand what the information meant, but we took it back to base and reported it and didn't think much of it.
Later, very soon after that, we went on another mission, came back to the village, and discovered that the village was destroyed in a Tomahawk missile attack.
At that point, we were...
Psychologically broken as to how we were being used and the obviousness of that village being destroyed.
There was no military significance whatsoever.
In destroying the village, there was probably 30, 35 people and no permanent structures other than three.
Initially.
Before it was destroyed.
These people lived very simple lives.
They were very nomadic and detached.
And there would be no reason whatsoever to bomb that particular target unless the information that we obtained was significant.
But you didn't bomb them.
No, it was another one.
It was another team that...
They knew of the village, but when they destroyed the village, they didn't know who they were bombing.
They were told lies.
Okay.
And this is, in theory, one of the teams of the nine?
It was one of the other teams in cell team nine, and I know which team it was.
When we got back home from the mission, I actually got into a violent altercation with the person on that team that does the job that I do for my team.
And it sent shockwaves through the nines.
It really fractured things and tore us apart.
In my estimation, it was probably either the end of the end or the beginning of the end of the SEAL Team 9 program and its mission.
Certainly at that time, we were seeing the evolution of drones come online, and more and more often we were being assigned drones as assets, so we were aware of them and their capabilities.
On missions, and shortly after that, drones became weapons-based platforms, and they started using the much more humane Hellfire missile to accomplish the goals that we were accomplishing with Tomahawk missile attacks.
When you say much more humane, are you joking?
Tongue-in-cheek, Hellfire missile has a 25-pound warhead.
Tomahawk missile has a 250-pound warhead.
Yes, a drone can minimize collateral damage.
However, we are where we are today, and we know that there's lots of collateral damage with drone-based missile attacks.
Okay.
Yeah, I didn't even realize that drones were...
I thought they were simply surveillance.
Most people don't.
Not one of those well-advertised things that our media keeps us up on.
Right.
Okay.
So at this point, you basically had what you call an altercation with the individual who bombed this group of people who had been giving you guys shelter.
Who in a sense, it was almost like, I don't know if you, you know, it's like a shelter or a home base for you guys, this small village, right?
So it's village, the village is destroyed.
It wasn't a home base, it was...
It was an asset that we used in a military sense, but at the same time, we developed an emotional connection to the people of the village.
We knew who they were.
We knew what they were about.
We knew the basicness of their living and how they went about.
And destroying that village and killing all those people was unnecessary and sad.
Okay.
So at this point, what happened?
When you attacked the person, did you almost kill them?
Yeah, I got into a fight with them.
I did go overboard and the physical violence was enough to put him in the hospital and threaten his life.
I'm pretty sure the only reason I was able to do that level of damage is because that person didn't fight back.
Certainly were evenly matched as far as hand-to-hand weapons combat at any other given time.
The fact that I almost killed him doesn't seem possible unless he felt guilty and just didn't fight back.
Okay.
So, at that point, what happened?
At that point it was pretty obvious to the powers that be that I was never going to be able to be used in the capacity that I was being used anymore.
I was never going to be able to Designate missile attacks and kill people.
So I was taken out of service and put in a psychological hospital for six months.
I spent most of my time in a drug-induced haze slash coma.
Experiencing wild hallucinations, paranoia, and Treatment programs that focused my mind solely on fear and distorted reality and believing in a bunch of things that were only manifesting themselves because of the drugs,
the hallucinogens, the psychotropics.
So they were basically messing with you at that point through, would you call it mind control techniques?
I would more correctly characterize it as mind destruction or psychological destruction.
Stripping me from all reality as far as, you know, up and down, left, right, perception became something that was very fluid and could be influenced very easily.
Okay.
So, and this went on for six months, did you say?
Six months.
Towards the end of the six months, the drug stopped.
I came out of my cloud, I guess is the best way to put it, and was told that I was being released from the military and that everything was going to be fine and that they just made the decision that I got my 10-year mark, which was when I was supposed to get out of the military.
I was pretty happy about that, especially after the six months of what I would easily classify as torture.
I would have done anything to get out of that.
I understand.
Would you say though that And you alluded to this off camera.
The coincidence is a bit sort of mind-bending, if you will, that you actually got out on your supposed planned release date.
Correct.
Altercations, etc., etc., happened along the way.
According to my court-martial, I should have spent 11 years in prison.
According to paperwork that I have, I spent exactly three years and one month In prison and got out at exactly the time I would have gotten out if I would have otherwise been discharged.
So two questions I would ask is do we normally let people out eight years early and do we normally pay them while they're in prison?
I don't think those would be easy questions for anybody to answer inside the military right now.
And I've proven that since I've gotten out.
You know, there's so many avenues we could go down, and I did ask you to watch the video of Duncan O'Finian, which you weren't familiar with prior to our interview.
No, didn't know he even existed prior to you mentioning it.
Okay.
And do you want to say your reaction to seeing that?
My reaction would be mostly based on my perspective and what I know.
In a word, the things that I heard and the information that he gave were eerily similar to many, many aspects of my training.
It was quite spooky, the things that he went through and the things that I went through, how strangely they coincided.
I understand completely why you would bring it up, because they are For all intents and purposes, parallel paths that we both experienced on some level.
At this point, you got out of the military.
What happened then?
I got out in June of 01.
I went back home to Salt Lake City, Utah and got a construction job and was going to be completely content putting all of my military past behind me and moving on with my life.
On September 11, however, that Thought process got majorly interrupted when the Twin Towers were attacked, the Pentagon, and another flight was hijacked.
It was at that point, based on my experience, that I looked at the events of 9-11 and drew Much, much different conclusions about the whys and wherefores of the event and some major, major problems with the popular story based on what happened.
Certainly, if you're the guy that for eight years drove planes into buildings, you might see the correlation between somebody coming back and doing it to us.
But when you're saying drove planes, you're actually referring to the Tomahawk missile as a kind of a plane?
Tomahawk missile flies like an airplane.
It acts like an airplane.
It can be controlled with normal airplane controls.
It has wings.
It has tail fins.
It has a rudder.
It has a jet engine.
It sounds like a jet.
It would be hard based on the fact that they fly very low to the ground and they fly very fast to get a good look at it enough to be able to tell it from typical airline plane to a Tomahawk missile.
Certainly all anybody would get is a glimpse.
Okay, and basically you also talked about the You know, because they said there was a missile that hit the Pentagon, that it wasn't a plane, and you actually have some very good evidence, in a sense, to substantiate that that was much more likely to be a Tomahawk missile.
Correct.
The best information out there, in my opinion, is a documentary called Loose Change.
It tells out all the information in much, much greater detail than I can express it.
But the one important thing that I noticed was the turn that the airliner supposedly made before it actually hit the Pentagon.
That turn would be almost impossible to make with a 757.
If you want to fire up your flight simulator and buy all the controls that airplanes have and try to do it on a flight simulator, I think you would find that you crash the plane every time.
However, that turn was something that I had seen many, many, many times when I used that turn to overfly a target, come around and hit it again after I'd marked on top and verified that that indeed was the actual target with the inboard camera and the missile.
Also, where an airliner's wings are particularly susceptible to damage and knocking over five light poles would be an issue when you were trying to control the aircraft low and slow like they were, Tomahawk missiles' wings are reinforced.
And aren't filled with fuel and very, very hardened surfaces that make it so if the missile's ever attacked, it would still fly into its target.
Certainly, it could knock over a five-light pulse and not even blink before it hit the Pentagon.
The other eerie part about the whole situation Is that it hit the Pentagon at the one area of the Pentagon that had just received a reinforcement or an upgrade that made it the most reinforced part of the building.
The part of the building that would be damaged least by an attack.
Couple that with the fact that there wasn't any jet fuel blowing it up and that the wingspan of an airplane driving into that building doesn't match a 757.
Model a Tomahawk missile and its flight path and payload and wingspan and all the other technicalities of it, and I think you would find that the estimated damage of what that attack would cause to the Pentagon at that particular area would fit very nicely with the actual damage that happened to the Pentagon in that particular area.
And the fact that they had evacuated, or at least that a lot of people were not there, and that – didn't you also allude to the fact that it appeared that there was evidence that Cheney had been waiting for the – In the documentary, Loose Change, it does have some pretty damning evidence that the Vice President was well aware of the attack.
Then again, you could look at the reaction of President Bush at the time that he was notified and realized, soon, that somebody knew something ahead of time.
Well, his reaction would be stereotypical of that, in my mind.
What you also alluded to was the idea that you weren't the only one who, or your group, your SEAL team, weren't the only ones that received advance warning of 9-11.
During the time prior to that, is that right?
No, I would say most government agencies received some notification or some warning of the attack ahead of time.
Certainly there's more than enough actual evidence out there today that's as easy as getting on YouTube and doing a search to find.
After that, I spent a lot of time and effort going back and connecting a bunch of little pieces of information that, if somebody was doing their job back then, could have easily determined exactly what was going to happen and prevented it.
Okay, meaning you went back and looked at intelligence that had come in over the years, or...?
Not over the years, but over the weeks and months prior to 9-11.
Okay.
So at that point, you're in a situation where you have actually been sort of, as you call, flying these planes into buildings using Tomahawk missiles.
Mm-hmm.
9-11 happens.
You suddenly, in a sense, that's like a wake-up call, I would imagine.
It was a huge wake-up call because now I knew what the incident involving pilots was all about.
And if I knew about it, who else knew?
Who else should have known?
Lots and lots of questions came into my mind very quickly.
And also watching the demolition of Building 1, 2, and 7, based on the fact that I've seen a lot of buildings blown up.
And I've seen a lot of buildings demolitioned on purpose.
Most Americans haven't seen a lot of buildings blown up.
They've just seen a lot of buildings demolitioned on purpose.
And really can't separate the two.
When they see a building being demolished and here it's being blown up, they mesh those two together and just assume that that's what they saw.
If you know anything about the physics of explosives and actually blowing buildings up, very rarely, no matter how much ordnance you use on it, does it fall down completely.
Even tiny buildings.
But what I saw on that day was buildings falling down as if they had no structural support anywhere throughout the building.
In other words, a demolition.
The only way that can happen is if all the support throughout the building is removed specifically on time and on purpose.
Certainly if Tower 1 and 2 fell down the way from the destruction that they said that it fell down from, the top of the building would fall down.
And then it would slow down because it was meeting the resistance of the structure below it.
That never occurred.
It fell straight through the building all the way to the ground with very little in the way to stop it.
Again, any demolitions expert could tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that that's absolutely impossible.
You couple that with the information that when the Twin Towers were built, that they were built to withstand a 707 attack, and they were engineered specifically for that possibility, and you know the 707 and the 757?
Aren't that far apart in dimensions, fuel payload, fuel to weight ratio, actual weight, pretty much all the same thing.
Prior to 9-11, all of the information says that attacking either of those buildings with an airliner and driving it into the building couldn't knock it down.
Okay.
And certainly it wouldn't knock down the building next to it.
Okay.
So at this point, you know, because this is not really, I mean, 9-11 plays in, but this story goes on beyond that.
So at this point, what happens in your life?
What goes on?
At the time of 9-11, I had just gotten out of three months removed from the worst nightmare I could ever imagine in my life.
I was not anxious to go back to that.
So I kept my head down and I didn't say anything and I wasn't about to tell people what I knew.
Things had to evolve more and more out of control, and eventually they did, to the point where, you know, I was hearing that Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, which I knew couldn't be possible.
Based on the fact that we had blown everything up that could even be remotely classified as a weapon of mass destruction.
The country was not capable of sustaining a weapons of mass destruction program based on the amount of devastation that we had been pouring on it for the past decade.
And so...
I knew something was up after that.
The enactment of the Patriot Act further solidified my problem-solution beliefs on what happened with 9-11.
Ergo, we created a problem and then were given the solution.
We never really questioned that solution.
Never were really told that, yeah, but, They attacked us because we had been attacking them for the past decade.
Okay, well, the understanding, though, is that they actually didn't attack us, that this was an inside job, on top of all of that.
Certainly, if a Tomahawk missile hit the Pentagon, I do have some questions about what happened to the airliner that was supposed to have hit the Pentagon, and also the one that crashed in Pennsylvania.
Right.
Supposedly.
Doesn't look to me like the crater of a full-size airliner.
Looks something more akin to what it would look like if I popped a cruise missile over, did nimble and turn, and drove it straight into the ground.
Okay.
If you know those little wing marks that everybody sees in the middle of that bomb crater don't have any charring around them.
And if those were the wing marks of an airliner, those wings would have been full of fuel They would have had engines on them, and they definitely would have burnt.
I think it's pretty obvious when you look at the TV footage of the wreckage around those two sites.
The wreckage was mangled, bent, but not burned.
At this point, you've had a wake-up call, and what happens in your life, because you also talked about a certain degree of surveillance, that you didn't just walk away from the military.
At some point, you You were under the purview of the DIA, is that correct?
Yeah.
Everybody that possesses a level of clearance above top secret is watched and monitored long after they lose access to that level of clearance.
Certainly a secret is still a secret even if you Don't let the person that knows the secrets know any more secrets.
So, no matter what they did, I possessed a huge amount of information that The population in large needed to be kept secret from.
So, yes, you get used to a regular amount of surveillance, a regular amount of interference, regular communications with some mysterious people that come up to you and just start talking that you've never met before, but they seem to know everything about you.
And that was what I experienced between 2001 and 2007-ish.
So at this point, you have been spending, from 2001 when you had sort of a wake-up call, what did you do?
Did you just continue to do jobs?
I continued to do jobs.
I ended up going to college and getting my degree in electrical engineering.
I worked for a fairly large medical laser company and then shortly after that started my own business.
Okay, and the business was what?
Repair and maintenance of medical laser equipment and medical light equipment.
I mean, you didn't address this thing where you actually are a registered offender?
Yeah, that was part of the monitoring program that worked out very effectively.
When I was discharged from the military, what they didn't tell me is that I was not going to be given a choice.
I was going to be forced to register as a sex offender.
And I basically had to either sign paperwork that said I would agree to that or face my criminal sentence and go for another eight years in Leavenworth.
Once again, I made the obvious choice and got out of the military and decided that the registration program wouldn't be nearly as big a deal as going to jail.
Okay.
So they registered you in, I don't know, was this known neighborhood?
I don't know anything about it.
The registration program, when it started out, was fairly innocuous.
Rather, the worst part of it was having your picture splashed online with a bunch of other people who probably had more inclination to going after children than I do.
Over time, the build-up of what I was seeing and what I was experiencing and what I knew from my previous military experience and what I had learned since getting out of the military, it began to build and build and build and build until it eventually got to the point where even I couldn't take it anymore.
And at that point, I began, you know, looking up information on the Internet, doing research, information gathering, kind of, quote-unquote, building my case.
Shortly after I began doing that, I was contacted by a group of people that were also doing the exact same thing.
And were much more aware of who I was and what my experience in the military was on a top secret level.
I was very surprised by that.
But I learned very quickly that there's people out there with a huge amount of information that are fighting for the good guys.
Okay, so in essence you were contacted by a group of what we call white hats.
White hats.
I call them oath keepers.
I see.
But essentially, they're the patriots that our government would classify as terrorists.
But they are ex-military by and large, and some of them are still in the military.
I would assume a large number are still in the military or the government in the FBI, Secret Service, CIA, any alphabet agency, there's got to be a percentage of people that are seeing the day-to-day and going, this is wrong, we've got to do something.
So they contacted you?
Yes.
And over the course of a few months, I was vetted.
And if you don't know the meaning of the word, that is a cute term for saying how much you could be trusted and how much you would lie and what you didn't want to talk about.
When you figure out that the people on the other side of the vetting process already know all that and they're just trying to figure you out and see if all that's true, if you respond exactly the way that you are portrayed in their minds, it's very encouraging.
And, you know, they knew my deepest, darkest secrets, and they knew even more than that.
And when I came out with the information I did, I kind of graduated and got a trusted role in a very compartmentalized world.
But at the same time, there was some kind of incident, wasn't there, with the DIA in which you started to refuse to be dealt with the way they wanted you to be dealt with?
Right.
Shortly after I decided that I was going to do what it took to see my part of justice being brought Into the limelight and into popular knowledge of the world.
I also told the DIA handlers that visited me shortly after that incident that they could not bother talking to me anymore because I wasn't going to be handled by the government.
And I was going to be a problem and I was going to be a loose end.
You know, it was going to be somebody that they had to worry about.
Okay.
And then what happened to your livelihood in terms of your business?
Over the course of two years, my business was destroyed.
My clients were all mysteriously notified of my sex offender status.
Many of my neighbors were visited by the police.
I had information brought to light to scare them.
Unfortunately, I didn't know that my next-door neighbor was my best friend and I helped him get the house.
That's how I know this all happened.
But, basically, it got to the point where I was being followed by the police, Las Vegas Metro Police Department, when I was living in Las Vegas at the time, being pulled over, ticketed, arrested, and more or less harassed, both me and my fiancé, on an ongoing basis.
We reached a climax in April of last year when the final straw where they set up a massive amount of traffic enforcement for No particular reason whatsoever that they can explain.
And pulled me over that day on the way to a competition, a bodybuilding competition, that I was going to be going to with my fiancé, and it was...
The only way that they would have any idea of where I would be and when I would be there.
So they used that to their advantage.
I have had several incidents similar to that happen, but managed to slip through their little nets every time since then.
I'm fairly confident that I will continue to do that until such time as I have the opportunity to make it so That can't be used against me as a weapon anymore, and this video should be a big part of that.
So you're working with this group, and one of the reasons you came to me was actually because of this Defense Authorization Act.
Yes.
That sent shockwaves through the community that I'm involved in.
Basically, that is the final straw of the complete erosion of constitutional rights.
It literally has government giving itself permission to violate the rest of the Constitution.
And that has a lot of people concerned.
And a lot of people would like to see something done about that.
It's my opinion and their opinion that something could be done about that.
Because, quite honestly, we are a false flag away from enacting all of that legislation that's just been created.
Right.
I would agree with you on that.
One disaster away from lock up everybody who we say is a terrorist and nobody will question who's a terrorist.
Right.
So you and this group are basically in a sense coming to Camelot to get a hearing for you specifically in relation to some of the things that have happened to you, right?
But at the same time to bring notice to the public.
That this Defense Authorization Act is going to be a huge, well, it is a violation of every constitutional right out there, but that it pushes the envelope to such a degree that it must be dealt with.
And you're suggesting certain Yes.
It's a very simple process if you understand how the problem-solution effect works.
In order to create the problem, you can't have everybody know about it.
You can't have everybody talking about it.
You can't have everybody saying, well, Yeah, now we're just waiting for the next false flag.
If that information is too widely known and too widely held, the next false flag would blow up in their face and cause a shift in public consciousness to say, no, this is just our government messing with us, as opposed to panicking us into a blind fear.
Right.
So we'll then allow them to go to war in a full-fledged war instead of this sort of sporadic war that they're conducting, right?
Correct.
And...
The popular belief is there's a very, very easy way to prevent that from happening.
And to get that information out to the public, it has been surmised that if we...
Bring that to the level that it's at.
If we address the issue directly via our constitutional rights and begin to notify the public in general that this is a problem and that it needs to be dealt with, and the way that it's been proposed to me and to a lot of people is to create a petition That calls for the impeachment of every political person in Congress and the presidency that
enacted this legislation as treasonous.
Because it is treason to attempt to alter the Constitution through an unconstitutional means.
If you create a law that circumvents the Constitution, you commit treason.
Fair enough.
We haven't actually talked about your special training.
No.
And why it is that you do have some parallels with Duncan O'Finian.
And so having talked about the sort of Defense Authorization Act, at least in a surface way, and explained that that is your motivation, Can we actually go down that road to where we talk about where you've been and some of the information you have?
Because I don't know if it's your clearance level that gave you the additional information about black projects and about certain aspects of, well, to name Area 51 specifically, possibly other places that you haven't told me about yet.
Do you want to start down that road slightly?
Sure.
The level of secrecy and secret facilities and the capabilities of our nationally kept secrets would shatter most people's imagination of what is possible.
Area 51, Los Alamos, Dulce, A hundred other top secret bases where information is kept or hidden from the public in general, it would be very hard to accept that all of this information that is currently held secret and classified is actually real.
And you know this because why?
Because I've experienced things in the military that I've then told people about and by and large people that have never held a top-secret clearance would call me either at the mildest a liar The greatest acquisition, crazy.
Certainly my experience at Area 51 and Psy training and what I learned there and the abilities that evolved from that training session that we all seemed to pick up on rather easily were most easily described to the layman as Jedi skills.
It's very easy, if you know what I know, to see the correlation between what happens in the movie in the Jedi training and what happens in Area 51 and Psy training.
Certainly, we in the Nines all possessed a certain level of intuition and ability that would seem Advanced to anyone who watched us use it.
Can you elaborate on what you may have come across?
Because if you're using these abilities, you're in Area 51, at what level did you go down to or whatever?
Are you aware of off-world craft?
I mean, you know what's out there.
I'm not sure how much you know about Camelot, but I assume that you know the general amount of information on the Internet.
what can you substantiate having personal sort of knowledge of?
Extra, beyond human abilities for every human, not subject to popular not subject to popular belief, but we as human beings are far more capable of using, many, many
many advanced skills beyond five senses.
With a little bit of training and the knowledge that it was actually possible, most people could accurately predict the possibilities of the future to know when other people were thinking about them.
Pick up on what is easy to describe as reading people, where you don't really need to use your five senses to be able to know what somebody else is thinking or feeling.
A lot of that has to do simply with the belief and the understanding that it's possible.
That opens up a lot of doors.
I think Finian talks about having been enhanced physically.
Do you feel that you were enhanced physically?
No.
When I hear Duncan's story, the things that he experienced are very similar to what I experienced based on the fact that you were never told That the actual belief in what you were doing was giving you the ability.
You were giving something, a caveat, a carrot, an enhancement.
They could jam a small piece of metal in your arm and that's enough to get you believing that you have these abilities and they turn on.
But one really doesn't have anything to do with the other per se.
I have had a device implanted in me and I later was of the understanding that that device did not do what I was told it was doing.
It was not to provide enhancement.
It was to provide monitoring.
But you're basically saying that it's the mental abilities that you...
It's like placebo in a sense.
As long as you believe it, it then gives you that ability to do superhuman type things.
Right.
And that's very important because if you teach people these things, you want to be able to turn those things off if you want to.
You want to take those abilities away from people if you don't want them to have them anymore.
So if you tell them the true nature of the abilities, then you can't take belief away anymore.
You have to pull the piece of metal out of the arm that says you don't have the enhancement anymore.
Well, it's the Tin Man.
Yes.
Being told that he doesn't have a heart, he needs to have a heart installed, when in fact he had a heart all along.
Exactly.
Maybe that's the lion.
I forget who.
The lion was courage.
Yeah, several of the beings in that story.
Okay, well, that's very valuable.
So you basically were given that kind of thing.
And I would say that...
And let me interject.
The six months where I was undergoing all the psychological treatment, I did go through a period of time where I believed all of my abilities to be gone or taken away.
In 08, with some help, I was able to transcend the barrier that kept me from using those talents.
And now I've been able to refine and enhance those abilities far beyond the levels that I had in the military, which comes in handy when cops chase your cell phone GPS. Okay, absolutely.
All right, so...
But to get back to Area 51, and I understand that at this point you would be violating a security oath to talk about it, right?
Let me put it in terms that it's easier for me to say and not have to go into the details of how I know, but just that I know.
I'll present it to everybody very simply.
What could be so important at Area 51 that would require the level of secrecy that is in existence around that facility?
Well, certainly if I said that we kept the U.S. space fleet there and that that space fleet was what we would understand to be UFOs, even though the technology is easy to describe and easy to talk about and easy to educate people on,
You need a lot of background in the evolution of the science that makes those things possible to be able to accept that the U.S. has dozens if not hundreds of vehicles that are more than capable of space flight and make it so we would have a fleet of vehicles that would be seemingly extraterrestrial.
And the reason that that has to be kept that way is because if you know that those vehicles exist, you start to question the technology that they're based on.
And when you start to do that, then you start to question why we're still using petroleum products and solid rocket boosters and everything else, and things get quickly out of hand after that.
To keep those vehicles a secret is to keep everything else a secret, which is why you would need that level of security to prevent anybody from finding out about it.
Okay, but that space fleet, as you call it, is capable of going anywhere?
Anywhere easily throughout the solar system.
Without much time or hindrance to the occupants.
Okay.
And explain how fast one could get to Mars, for example.
Just below the speed of light.
Okay.
But in an hour?
A day.
I would say it would be more reasonable.
Okay.
Incredibly fast.
Okay.
Have you seen these vehicles yourself?
I've seen one type of one vehicle.
Okay.
And compared to when I saw it, which was more than 10 years ago, and what should exist now, I would say that it was a Tinker toy bucket of parts compared to what we should have in existence now, based on the evolution of the technology that I know.
As far as off-world basis, I do not possess any personal knowledge.
I do, however, I believe in and have seen information that would suggest that anybody with a decent telescope could take a look at both the surface of the Moon and the surface of Mars and see some things that look very terrestrial.
Sure.
And things that didn't exist 20, 30 years ago.
One of the caveats that I do have some personal information that I did get personally involved in was some information that had to do with the Stargates and Looking Glass, and more specifically the 2012 problem with and more specifically the 2012 problem with those projects.
The, The, well, I guess popular opinion of what's out there right now is that the project was shut down because there was a problem when we approached 2012.
I've heard it described a number of ways, but to my knowledge, the problem is that the timelines converge on that point in time.
And when you know enough about the Stargate projects and the Looking Glass project to know that How string theory works and how the possibility of possibilities works and how making one choice over here doesn't necessarily mean that the other choice couldn't exist at the same time.
But once you Get your brain wrapped around this subject.
You find out that at the end of 2012, in an easy way to put it, the choices that we make become less and less consequential to the future.
And eventually we're pushed into this bottleneck of time, no matter which choice we make.
And that's important to the people that had access to Looking Glass because they would use Looking Glass knowing the choices that they would make and the future would pop up.
The big mistake was coming up with the possibility of future.
And when we started using a computer to say, well, if we make this choice, it's 79% possible that this scenario happens, and 23% are possible or whatever, using round numbers, that this scenario would happen.
The understanding at the time was that was realistic.
However, if you go down the road further and free will continues to exercise itself on this game, 79% possibility sometimes changes very, very fast.
But if you look at the situation in a point of time, it seems very realistic that that's the greatest possibility.
What happened was people, very smart people, began to figure out that something big was coming up.
Something that made it so all the possibilities of all the future scenarios of any choice, any possibility that was fed in and observed through the looking glass inherently ended up in the same future.
And no decision, no possibility changed past a certain point.
That's the big secret.
Okay, so is that certainly 2012 in your understanding?
It well coincides with December 21st, 2012.
So at that point, all possibilities lead to the same?
Timelines.
All possible timelines lead to the same basic set of history in the future.
And what is that history?
Did you know that or did you find that out?
That is the big question.
That is the big secret.
That is what sends everybody that has all of the information that knows everything into a blind panic.
The people that know everything about Looking Glass, that have gotten all the reports and all the information, the elites of the world, probably figured out that that was The end of the game.
Nothing could be manipulated beyond that point.
So do you think that's held true?
In other words, well, I have about 60 questions, but do you think that's true or holding true that nothing could be manipulated, that they haven't found a way to manipulate, that that's still the case?
I mean, this is knowledge that you would have gained back when.
Back when I was in the military, it would have been before 97 when I got in trouble.
And it was things that...
One of my particular areas that I was amazingly intuitive about is problem solving slash mission planning or more specifically taking a bad mission and fixing it.
Getting everybody through and out of it.
Troubleshooting an optimum future.
Exactly.
Certainly knowing how String theory and possible futures works makes it so you can work your mind very quickly to see the reality of what's happening and decide what decisions need to be made to change it for a particular outcome.
Okay, but at a certain point you said that even the powers The beast, so to speak, realized that having even abilities such as yourself, you're talking about, which they, in theory, had even using a computer or a looking glass.
Right.
They had to use a computer to do it.
Right.
So, in essence, but at a certain point, it's still an end game.
It's still, they cannot go beyond a certain point.
At a certain point, after they're done hearing the computer tell them, This is what's going to happen over and over and over and over again.
All they become focused on is how do we fix it?
Why?
What is the this that's going to happen?
The inevitable contraction of the timelines.
But what does that mean for this reality?
Do you know that?
I don't know that.
What I do know is that I was called in and asked to solve this problem, this timeline contraction problem.
And I eventually did my due diligence and did all the investigating and basically only had one piece of information, and that was reinforcement.
The computer's right.
The timelines will contract down to some inevitable thing that you guys won't tell me about, so I can't help you.
But what basically you came back with was it is inevitable, whatever it is.
There is an inevitable event.
It's been forecast, it's been predicted, it's been fed to us in a slop trough of what they want us to believe will happen.
However, they don't actually have control over what happens.
They only have control over the reaction, and it seems that no matter what they try to do to cause their desired reaction, it's going to have an opposite effect.
Interesting.
Now, it's much, much easier for me to explain today what that process is as opposed to back then, but if I had to give it a name, I would say it's the awakening process.
It's an evolution of consciousness that cannot, will not, and no matter what decisions or possibilities are injected into the equation, eventually it all resolves down to us all learning the truth and becoming aware of this massive dam of lies that has been built.
That keep us from knowing massive volume of information that we should otherwise possess.
Okay.
Well, that's very, very monumental.
To be told that from a person in your perspective, who's had your background and your exposure, is that your understanding that the notion that looking glass has been, you know, that there are various looking glasses around the globe, supposedly, That according to Dan Beersh were shut down.
Is it your understanding they're actually not shut down?
I believe that they're shut down because they are all saying the same thing and they're completely useless at this point.
It's like the Wicked Witch looking into the magic mirror and always getting the same answer.
Well, if you were always getting the exact opposite of the answer that you wanted, you'd stop talking to the mirror.
And that's essentially what happened with Looking Glass.
Not only did they not want people to use it anymore because they knew it was just going to burp out the same thing, but at the same time they didn't want anybody else to know what it was saying, I'm sure.
That they would lose control now.
Because that information was a monumental concern when I was in the military about how To prevent this inevitability.
Now, at first I thought it was end of the world.
Now I see end of the world as end of their world.
Well said.
Okay.
But are you aware, do you know the difference between looking glass and the yellow cube?
Yes.
Okay.
And are you aware of what happened to the yellow cube and how it was used and so on?
I believe that the yellow cube still exists.
I can't say for certain if it's on this planet, but I would say that it's definitely protected from use at this point.
Okay, well that coincides with the testimony we got.
Can you also verify that leaders of...
But let me say one thing about the yellow book and its differences with looking glass.
The yellow cube or the yellow book would give you your possible future.
Yes.
So it took...
Basically, the choices that you would inherently make along a timeline and tell you what that timeline would be given that you made all the choices that your brain would make.
Well, this is exactly what I was just going to ask you.
What we were told is that leaders of governments and so on People in high places, you know, politically, would use this to try to see their most optimum future and then follow those.
So they were using it to enhance their wealth, et cetera, et cetera, in a very egotistical way.
And that was part of the problem with it.
And that supposedly one of the specific things, we're told, had to do with Hillary.
Are you aware of any of that?
You mean the 2012 prediction for her?
Well, will you tell me what you know?
I don't have any first-hand knowledge of this.
This is all back-alley information.
But one of the last predictions that was...
put out by the yellow cube was that for all intents and purposes, and this is just my level of understanding, is that Hillary Clinton would be president in 2012.
And, um...
when the yellow cube is involved, it leads me to question what I know about looking glass and string theory along with that.
The first question that anybody that knew anything about the process would know is who was using the cube when it made that prediction.
If I knew that, then I could tell you why it would predict what it predicted.
Wasn't there also an issue with, I'm not sure, but in using the yellow cube, yellow book, however you want to term it, that they actually had to use it through an intuitive who had a high vibration, had to be in the vicinity to, in a sense, be the go-between between the person who wanted to use the cube and the cube itself.
Because normally they didn't have the vibration necessary.
Correct.
And that is a process that would prevent anomalies from popping out in predictions.
But it wouldn't completely...
No, and I'll tell you why.
If it was used properly by...
Somebody that knew how to use it and could eliminate their thought process from the machine's effective use, it would be very easy.
To get an exact, you know, what future holds.
However, comma, anybody that has that ability would inherently know that that information could not be given.
And would be protected.
And that inherent notion would inject something into the yellow cube or the yellow book that would give an inaccurate statement.
Just by the person that's using its intuition saying, if I tell the truth, It'll be bad.
So the higher levels pick up on that and throw out a different scenario that isn't the truth.
It's in a sense the feedback loop gets dirtied somewhere along the line by exposure.
And that's why those pieces of technology should have never been used by humanity and its current level of understanding, because for all intents and purposes, the technology doesn't work right when we use it.
Right, I totally get that.
Okay, so to get back to looking glass and the possible features that do converge, And the notion of, is there anything else that you can tell us that you would want to tell us about that and the rest of the laundry list of sort of information that you had directly to, either for yourself or through someone that you had vetted?
The biggest cherry on top of all this conversation would be a synopsis to say that if I could convince everybody out there that for all intents and purposes what we believe to be true eventually becomes true.
If somebody convinces us That a major disaster is going to happen in the very near future.
A major disaster happens in the very near future.
If we don't buy into that fear and accept that there's really nothing that we know is going to happen and accept of whatever happens, That makes the convergence of the timelines happen as naturally as possible.
Any attempts to try to go away from this one inevitable conclusion, which I again see as a new beginning, An end of this reality, the beginning of something that we can't even possibly understand based on the level of our beliefs currently.
But when all that information comes flooding out, There's going to be no denying what's true and what's a lie or what's illusion.
We won't have the choice to believe that 9-11 happened because of a bunch of terrorists because we'll know exactly what's happened.
Basically what we're experiencing right now is two master chess players sitting at the board.
And one of them looks down at the board and sees that he's in checkmate in seven moves.
And he looks across at his opponent and he knows that his opponent sees it too, so there's no getting out of it.
So at this point, the loser can only prolong the game.
Both players know the game is over.
It's only a matter of time before he does this, and then you're forced to do this, and then he's forced to do this, and eventually checkmate.
We, as a race, if we could understand that the game is over, that based on the rules of the game, The bad guys have already lost.
The good guys have already won.
Yes, there's moves left on the table, but those moves are being forced by the player that is going to win.
The only way that checkmate can't happen is if the player that's winning makes a mistake.
But from all of the information that I've gathered, all of the information that's been given, all of the information that's been vetted to me, it seems pretty obvious that the good guy player on the side of the chessboard knows exactly what has to be done to win the game.
And so, at this point, any mistake would be all but impossible.
But again, you really have to understand the game to know that the guy that's losing is lost.
And I'm sure most people sitting watching a chess match between two advanced chess players know the game's over long after the two players know it's over.
Because they can't see the board and see that there's only seven moves left.
Okay, but when we come to this convergence, and again, you've seen, or the looking glass has seen up to that point, Now, let me say why I believe that it comes down to one inevitability, is because I was entrusted in getting it down to two possibilities.
And I've heard both of those possibilities talked about in massive proportions, the good and the bad.
Okay, can you in one sentence say what the good was and the bad was or are you able to do that?
To most easily put it to people, one scenario is what most people would understand to be ascension or an evolution of consciousness that brings us Out of the cocoon and turns us into a butterfly.
Timeline 2 is some kind of major global catastrophe that drives most of us underground and leaves a few of us on top to fend for ourselves.
Very well, very well put.
Okay, so I would imagine, and you can...
But I would also like to point it out that they call Timeline 2, Timeline 2.
It seemed very odd to me that even back then it was identified as not one.
And that one didn't get talked about.
One is the one that involves what in essence would be ascension or moving from the cocoon to the butterfly.
Okay.
But I believe, based on what you're telling me, that they would have used a lot of people like you That had a proclivity for being able to see the future, you know, to be what is sort of an advanced psychic remote viewer,
whatever you want to call that, and looking glass, to posit these potential futures, to go up to that point and to view it, and that you're just one of many.
Wouldn't you agree?
I would agree.
And back in 1991, when I began my little adventure in the military, I would say that it was pretty obvious that there wasn't very many of us.
However, you go 20 years into the future and you find out that It's coming to the point where there's a lot of people that have that ability, that are inherently realizing that ability, and are able through some unknown extraordinary means to develop that ability inside themselves without any outside help or assistance.
And it's quite obvious that As far as advanced intellectual abilities, as far as simple intelligence levels, and cognitive skills of the human race has increased exponentially in the past 20 years.
People that were 10 years old in 1991 are now 30 years old and fully awake and conscious of this burning inside that says, I am a lot more than what I see in the mirror.
Absolutely.
Okay.
I do have a question in regard to what the military-industrial complex has been working on.
Because with the knowledge that you say they have, assuming that they have this level of knowledge that you're talking about, right?
In other words, of the timelines converging and the fact that there was going to be something.
I don't know if you saw the movie or the TV show Fast Forward, but there's been so many possible scenarios in that regard.
But one of the things that goes on is they are very busy building underground bases, supposedly underground cities.
And so they seem to be hedging their bets for the negative timeline.
Mm-hmm.
And putting their emphasis there.
And would you say that that is because they...
I mean, why would somebody want something negative to come true?
Well, of course, the Illuminati have a program that they're working on in that regard.
But basically, the sort of well-meaning military that just goes after contingencies, you know, and is just working towards a future that they want to prevent and or deal with when it comes...
Can you explain why they have been hedging their bets to such a degree on the negative?
It's very simple.
They're insane.
And beyond insane, they have literally deluded themselves into believing that they can somehow manage To get away with what they're trying to get away with.
There is a distinct lack of reality in that thinking.
Okay, what about the notion that CERN, for example, is engaged in trying to beat that game, as you call it?
I would say, look at the problems CERN has had.
the crazy little things that have kept that project from moving forward.
Certainly they have never even come close to getting that project to the level that they want it to be to do what they really want to do with it.
Okay, well, what about the notion that that's the party line that they haven't been able to do so?
But if you really think about it, that's what they would prefer people believe so that they don't think that there's a threat.
But when you listen to the interviews of the scientists that are working on the project, even they say that it seems like somebody or something from the future won't let them get that project done.
And the craziest little things have caused massive damage to that project.
And when you get the foremost thinker in string theory saying, yeah, I don't think we're going to do it because I don't think fate wants us to do it, that says something about a scientist.
Okay, so, well, thank you very much.
I think that at this point we're going to have to close this down unless there's any other...
Things that you think that we haven't covered or that we could possibly touch on that you want out there?
No, I don't think we'd get any further tonight.
Certainly, from what I know, the questions will come out and be more than happy to do a live feed after that and answer any questions that anybody comes up with from this interview.
Wonderful.
All right.
Well, thank you very much.
Well, hopefully I can get everybody else working towards that goal as well.
Absolutely.
Well, apparently, regardless of which way they work, the convergence will happen.
Yeah.
There's a certain element of pain that we can reduce by just not accepting the We don't have choices in the matter.
Sitting back and waiting for the aliens to fix everything isn't going to help.
Absolutely.
If we are inevitably coming to a rise in consciousness, we should start trying to elevate our consciousness as fast as humanly possible and make that transition a lot easier when it comes.
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