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June 3, 2011 - Project Camelot
01:06:15
PROJECT CAMELOT : MEL FABREGAS INTERVIEWS BILL RYAN & KERRY CASSIDY PART TWO
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Time Text
Thank you.
Thank you.
This is Mel Fabregas.
I'm here at the UFO Congress with Terry Cassidy and Bill Ryan.
Before the break, we left you in a cliffhanger.
And I think we covered a lot of what you were saying.
Were there any stones that were supposed to be turned or did we cover it all, folks?
Stones that weren't supposed to be turned.
That's a nice one.
No, no, no.
I'm very comfortable with the story that we laid out.
It's quite complex.
And I hope the people have been able to follow it a little bit.
Weren't you in the middle of a sentence when we got to the break?
Where were you at?
Well, I think I was just explaining how it's happened that a lot of times, and we were even talking about this off camera, which is that when we interview somebody, it's often taken that we support them, okay?
And that we believe what they're saying.
And it's important for people to realize that as investigative journalists, When we do interview somebody, it means they do have a piece of the puzzle, which we think is valuable, that has elements of truth in it, and that can add to the big picture.
That is definitely true.
But it doesn't mean we believe everything they say.
And in fact, there may be issues, we may take issue with some very important Things that they say that we don't agree with.
But it's not our job to be the judge and jury of the information or to decide for the viewer what's true and what's false.
We can do that for ourselves, but basically what we want to do is lay out the big picture, the possible truth that is out there as much as we can ascertain.
We often use the analogy of a jigsaw puzzle.
We're collecting the pieces.
We don't really know what the picture on the box looks like, and we don't know how big the box is, except in our own journey, we've been aware that the box is kind of larger than we might originally have thought.
But we don't throw out any of the pieces, and we're kind of sharing this journey, as we said earlier in the previous segment.
We're sharing this journey with people saying, look at what we're looking at now.
Look at what we're hearing now.
Look at this interesting person we're talking to now.
Look into their eyes just as we're looking into their eyes now.
So share our journey.
Share our attempts to put these pieces together.
We may move them around.
Some people write to us, for example, this is an obvious one, you know.
Five hundred people have written to us saying, look, you know, you've got contradictions in your whistleblowers.
Dan Behrer says that there are only three extraterrestrial races.
Come on, you know.
We say, look, Do you think we're not aware of that?
We know that.
But in asking you to share our journey, for instance, with Dan Beerish, all we are saying is this guy deserves to be heard out.
We think he's interesting.
We think his story has got some merit to it.
We want to see how these pieces fit just like you do.
Of course, not all of what our whistleblowers say, taken together, can all be true.
There are obvious contradictions there.
And so in the end, when we get close to putting this puzzle together, some of the pieces may need to be discarded.
But probably not very many of them.
Probably not many of them.
And we're still collecting pieces.
And it's kind of like this is our job.
If there are some people who we don't pay any attention to whatsoever, then it's a kind of coded message saying, you know what?
We have personally decided that we don't think this is worthwhile making this detour on our journey.
We may be wrong.
Maybe other people will pick up that stuff.
We have disagreements between ourselves about where it's worthwhile stopping off on our journey to take a look at.
But I could be wrong in any of my suppositions and so could you.
We'll find out in the end.
That's for sure.
We're in the middle of this movie.
We're not at the end of this movie yet.
And as long as we're having fun, as long as we're putting things together, I think that we're doing our job And just kind of hooked onto that is the notion that when we started, inspired by Stephen Greer's Disclosure Project press briefing in 2001, we started in 2006.
We didn't quite know what Stephen Greer was doing.
We were thinking, well, he's going to release a lot of stuff, and he hasn't done it yet, but he's probably got issues and problems, and in the meantime, we'll pick up a camera and we'll help out in this joint project here, this joint endeavour.
And so we started releasing information.
And then people started writing to us.
They were saying thanks for the information.
But they were also saying thanks for the inspiration.
And that also dovetails into something that we were talking about in the first part.
That it became clear.
It was totally unplanned by us.
It even took us by surprise.
People were saying, you know what?
You've given me hope.
You've given me direction.
You've woken me up.
You've made me realize that I'm an important part of this human family here.
Thank you for everything that you've done.
And it's not because of the inflammation.
The inflammation, a lot of it is there anyway.
It's got something to do with the leadership role that we're taking.
And so are you, and so are many other people.
And this huge smorgasbord of people who are...
Talking to the world from the alternative media platform, people will have different preferences, different styles, different personalities that they like.
But it's clear to me personally, just about to hand over to you.
It's clear to me personally that our role is increasingly inspirational and inspirational.
And we even talked two years ago, didn't we?
We said, you know what?
Maybe our work is done.
Most of the job is out there.
Most of it's out there.
We're kind of filling in the little pieces now, but actually most of it is there.
We've got 120 hours of witness testimony.
How much more do you want?
Another 120 hours?
Maybe there's a kind of law of diminishing returns there.
You get a little bit of information more, but not an awful lot.
And now it's about, okay guys, what are we going to do about this as the human family?
How can we reclaim our power?
What can we do?
What is at stake?
What is the big picture?
What potentials lie within us?
Hand you the torch.
Well, I would say that actually we have more than 120 hours of footage, if you count the audio interviews as well, the conferences, the Camelot roundtables, where witnesses compare notes and compare backgrounds and information.
There must be over 200.
Yeah, there's a tremendous amount of material available on our site.
And on our forums as well.
So information is incredibly plentiful at this time, as people will realize.
But what I would say is that in some ways, some of the broad strokes of the big picture In many ways, we feel have been put out there at some form or fashion by Project Hamelot.
And that is one of the strong suits of what we've done, is that you can go there and at least get an introduction to almost anything in what we call the big picture of the reality or realities that we inhabit here on the planet.
And so for that purpose, I think that what we've done has been highly successful and also begun to sort of reveal the dimensions, if you will, of the rabbit hole that people can go down in order to fill in aspects of their reality that are not addressed at all by the...
The mass media out there, by the main paradigm.
The paradigm on the planet is changing and we are at the foreground or the front runners of introducing people to those paradigm changes, I would say.
When you realized that 20 years ago, over 75 companies owned the media, at least you had a chance.
But right now, six companies own all the conglomerates.
That's why I call it a mediopoly.
I wanted to take a detour now because I think it's very relevant to take advantage of this segment.
I call it more economies of scale.
We have the three of us here talking.
We seem to be interviewing a lot of people around the world all the time.
And people may not realize this, but we have a unique advantage of connecting dots.
And 2011 is proving to be a very exciting year, whether you want to call it good or bad.
Since the beginning of the year, we've seen a lot of Earth changes, a lot of things happening in the Middle East that they don't seem to stop, domino effects going around the world.
Then there's the infamous date of December 21st, 2012, next year.
A lot of people live in anxiety.
You should not be living in fear, but live in awareness.
And I want to take this segment and talk to you to see what dots you have connected with the people you talked to regarding 2011 and 2012.
Let me make a start on this.
Because an interesting point to go back to, to answer that question, would actually be, for us, the summer of 2008.
And that was just before the US election where Barack Obama was elected.
In the several months prior to that, we had collected something like 14 or 15 separate very strong data points that suggested that there was a big problem coming up quite soon.
Possibly nuclear war, possibly some kind of a continuity of government situation where actually Bush would never set down.
These were credible reports that we heard.
And I was stockpiling food, and I was kind of figuring out whether I needed to get a ham radio license, and Kerry was wondering whether she should come and stay with me in a farmhouse in Europe and leave America.
We were looking at this kind of stuff, and we were seriously concerned.
Now here we are, two and a half years later, and none of that happened.
I mean, just to back up, we had Bill Deagle talk to us in Australia, who was so freaked out, he was almost in tears.
He'd had a night-long vision that was not a dream, in which he directly experienced a nuclear attack on an American city, and he was freaked out.
He reported to us, just hours after he woke up, he phoned us in Australia saying,''I've got to tell you what I experienced here, and it was not good, and this is coming.'' And then people write to us now and they say, well, he was wrong, he's crazy, wasn't he?
And we say, no.
That might have happened on a different timeline.
It might have been a real event, but it didn't happen to us.
And this is my position about this.
I think timelines have changed.
I can't tell you how they've changed or why they've changed, but I think they have changed.
And I think that human consciousness and the fact that we all co-create our own reality as a response to the warnings and the inspiration and the information that we've all been receiving has had some part to play in this.
And some of what may be happening behind the Black Curtain might be a push-me-pull-you tug-of-war going on behind different factions, both human and non-human, that actually have an investment in different timelines actually rolling out.
And going back to Henry Deacon, we talked about him in the first segment.
He talked to us about this.
He said, yes, he said, Dan Beerish's information about alternative timelines is a reality.
He actually went into more detail.
He said, there's several different major timelines, not just two.
I think he said, there are four major ones and a whole bunch of minor ones.
And later on, Dan Beerish, he went offline for six months and he came back and he said, we're on timeline...
Timeline 1 variant 73.
Told us a whole bunch of stuff.
They're using time portal viewing technology to look ahead to see which railway tracks were on.
They're at the front of the train looking out of the front window seeing which direction we're heading.
But there are points that you can actually change to change the track on all of this.
And it's the passengers who are doing this without being able to see ahead.
It's a very fascinating dynamic that's going on here.
So, let me tell one last little anecdote and then I want to hand over to Kerry.
Two days ago, I met a lovely young man who, in the restaurant, he came up to me and said, thank you, thank you for everything that you've done.
He said, because of what you've warned us about, I've invested two and a half million dollars in a hardened nuclear shelter.
He said, I'm going to move my family in there, and I'm all right, and thank you for that.
And I acknowledged him for his work and for all that he was doing, protecting his family and on his journey, and he was as bright as a button talking to me and so grateful, and I found myself thinking...
You're not going to need that.
It's not going to happen.
You don't need to worry about it.
But I didn't want to tell him that he wasted his money.
I just noticed my own reaction when I had the opportunity to look in that mirror.
I don't think these things are going to happen.
That they're not going to happen to us.
I think that we've turned a corner, like a big supertanker turning in the ocean.
We haven't finished this maneuver yet, but I think it's on its way.
And I think that what we're seeing in the Middle East right now, February 2011, we're seeing the people starting to reclaim the power in the world.
These are not orchestrated events in Egypt, in Tunisia, in Libya, and maybe elsewhere.
And I am sure That the controllers of the planet, whoever they are, are very, very worried that this kind of thing is going to start spreading to this country.
Because if it does, then the game really starts to change.
Kerry?
Well, yes.
I have to say that I do believe a variation of what Bill's been talking about to some degree, in terms of connecting the dots.
I do believe that Let me say that in the long range, I believe we're all various combinations of ET races.
I think that's inevitable about the people that are here on the planet now.
And I think that there are also some, if you want to call them purebred, ETs here with us, some of whom are obviously disguised as humans.
I believe that in terms of timelines, that the military industrial complex, the secret military industrial complex, has been messing very seriously with timelines.
And in fact, I feel that CERN is involved in that.
I was just talking to somebody recently, and people will be familiar with the Wingmaker material, in which they talked about what's called blank slate technology, which in essence is a time travel technology that allows you to, or one, to, or the military industrial complex, to take the Earth and possibly move the Earth into a different timeline in order to avoid certain things coming down the pike on the timeline we're on.
Now, that may have been done, and it may have been done a number of times.
There's some information that leads me to believe that it was done, for example, in 1983 to do with the Montauk experiment.
That was the end of the Montauk experiment, in theory.
I mean, that was the supposed end of it.
There have been other Montauk-type experiments ongoing since then.
And so, what Bill's saying, and what was also touched on by Dan Beerish in The Looking Glass and so on, all of this facilitates this investigation into time travel, the use of technology to basically move us from one timeline to another, And I think that there is a sort of a war going on in that regard behind the scenes.
I think the Stargates opening, the closing, the manual Stargates that enhance natural Stargates, I think that there's a war going on behind the scenes with regard to all of this.
I think it's being hidden from the public.
I think the Gulf of Aden, I think the invasion of Iraq and so on all surround this.
I think keeping people away from aspects of, for example, South Africa, where Adam's calendar is, where clearly a major, major Stargate is involved in what's called Adam's calendar that Michael Tellinger has found.
I think there are other points on the globe where similar places exist, where Ley lines are intersecting and you've got a major stargate opening.
Some stargates that were depended on to allow for what is called by some ascension of the planet have been closed and so on.
Ashiana Dean's material addresses some of this very well.
But it's quite in-depth and some people don't have the time to get into all the details.
But what I want to say is that I do think human consciousness is affecting that paradigm, and I think it's affecting the work of the military-industrial complex, even the ETs that are coming here and that are all watching, some of whom are observing, some of whom are getting involved intentionally and interfering at this time.
Some of the ETs who are embodied in all of us have different teams on the ground, if you will, and we've just actually discussed this in an interview recently, a future talk that we did with Rich Dolan.
I think it's a fascinating scenario that we're involved in here on the planet, and I think there's a reason why in this sector of the galaxy, of this sort of universes out there, multiverses, that this particular planet might be of special interest at this time.
Because we're at this interesting juncture at which all these things are coming together.
So you've got the manipulation, you've got the rising of consciousness that changes the application, if you will, of those technologies that may even interfere with some of those mechanistic, robotic-type technologies.
And so I think in some ways all bets are off because what we're talking about is a unified consciousness that becomes a being of much greater power and magnificence than the broken up consciousnesses that have been here battling it out on planet Earth for quite some time already.
So I think we're really at a different juncture and I don't think it's simple.
I don't think it's easy to explain, but I do think that the clues are in everything that we've gathered up to this point.
And there's no doubt in my mind that the various factions of the powers who think they've been in control of this earth up to now are losing grip.
I think that that can be demonstrated across the board.
And so as they lose their grip, and they try to rein us in, and they try to increase the controls, the battle becomes heightened.
If it was a movie, you would say, we're rising to a crisis point.
I think you could at least say that much about the next 5 to 10 to 20 years, that Earth and humanity is going through a very If it were an hourglass, we're going through the narrow part of the hourglass.
We're actually going through some kind of a time tunnel, wherever you want to say, where we're actually moving and things are getting very heightened and very compact, and the conflict is very, very at crisis point at this juncture.
We've both spoken to people who have, for example, 2012, who have The impressions of the different sides of the coin.
I've spoken to John Major Jenkins, who says that December 21st, 2012 will be just another day.
You've spoken to Patrick, how do you pronounce it, Gerald?
Gerald.
Gerald, who has the other opposite.
It's very difficult for those who are listening or watching right now to make a decision because they want to believe both, but it's difficult when both are extremes.
What do you say?
Very, very, very interesting.
We're boycotted because we're actually too dangerous.
And actually, if you look at the body of our work, We were the first people who started to talk about super soldiers.
We were the first people who started to talk about Mars.
We were the first people who started to talk about teleportation.
We were the first people to start talking about time travel.
Not really.
But somewhere in there, we've actually been close to the front of the field at saying, you know what, this should be on the map as well.
Take a look at this stuff.
And other people are saying, well, hey, look, we've got to figure out what this light in the sky is.
That was the problem of the previous generation.
I mean, and so, in a sense, in some parts of the alternative media, we are as inconvenient to the more conventional parts.
You want to record this?
No, no, I don't care.
You can put this on record.
But we are as inconvenient to some parts of the alternative media as the alternative media is to the mainstream media.
It's actually the same relationship.
It's the same relationship.
I'd be willing to do that, absolutely.
And there's some evidence to support that.
And we encountered that in Barcelona.
We encountered that in Barcelona when...
Kerry, bless her, took Henry Deacon onto the stage to make a world-first announcement of a human being who is saying on television that he had physically been to Mars.
I didn't take him on the stage.
He went on the stage.
I accompanied him.
It doesn't matter what you did.
The fact is that he was on stage with you.
You inspired him to do that.
If he hadn't done that, he wouldn't have done it on his own.
Okay.
You're instrumental in catalyzing that.
Okay.
But the point that I'm making here is that the ex-politics organizers were angry at us for this.
Which is bizarre.
They said, this isn't okay, you can't do this kind of thing.
They're supposed to care about revealing truth, right?
And it became inconvenient for their conference.
It was very, very inconvenient that we were actually willing to go so far out.
I mean, and Bob Dean, of course, knows exactly what's going on, because he's got stories that he hasn't even told us.
He was pushing the belt out on that presentation, and we were actually supporting him.
But the interesting thing was that what we did there was not applauded.
Ever since then, we haven't been invited to a single conference.
We've been blacklisted.
Isn't that interesting?
Why would they do that?
And these aren't people who are kind of working for the dark cabal.
These are people who are afraid of how big this big picture really is.
And the fact that within the alternative media there is a deep conservatism that parallels the conservatism that there is in the mainstream media.
That's a very good point.
That deep conservatism has got its own paradigm that's starting to set like gradually settling And what's happened ever since the 1950s is that people have come up and said, you know what, it's not the way we think it is.
And one of those was Jacques Vallée.
He was the first person to do that.
Yeah, but he's become part of the old guard that's oppressing people at this point.
Well, there's always an old guard because the new guard always comes over.
It's a rolling road.
The whole thing is a rolling road.
Yeah, but it doesn't have to be that way.
I mean, there are people who have been here from the beginning who have had the widest view and who don't feel that they have to toe a party line, who weren't barred out.
You're quite right.
Now, wait.
I think you should be sitting here, and I think all of this should be on record.
It's an important conversation.
I want to say Laughlin, because the Laughlin conference was heavily, heavily controlled.
We're aware.
I mean, I am very aware because I've already run up against this cabal.
It is a cabal within the truth movement, if you want to call it that.
That has been operational, that people don't realize, has been custom choosing what people can hear on a conference stage and what they can't.
Exactly.
And that's part of the reason I actually did my conference, Awaken Aware, because I put my foot down at that point and I said, That's it.
I'm going to do a conference because people aren't going to be able to see these people like Duncan O'Finian on stage talking about what they talk to us about and to have all these people in one place at one time.
We had people coming up to us.
I still do.
I had people coming up at this conference saying to me, I was at Your Awake and Aware.
It was magical.
Please do another one.
It was the most amazing conference I've ever been at.
I mean, they are putting a lid down.
What they're doing is it's like a lid coming down slowly but surely.
I do think that...
See, the trouble is when you say that, though, is that these are human beings.
They got into this game.
They're used because they have a proclivity to want to be open to this material, because they resonate with it, because they can lend something to the picture.
But basically...
What I'm finding out is they're all on teams.
They're joining teams somewhere along the line in their career.
You're either subverted or destroyed.
That's what happened to those people.
Well, I wouldn't say they're all bad teams.
In other words, they're teams from the point of view of what you want to achieve.
A lot of people are looking at both extremes of the question of 2012.
Some listen to people like Joe Major Jenkins, who has researched a lot the The Mayans, the Aztecs, the calendar, and he believes that it's a circle, so it's the ending of a new age and the beginning of another new age.
Then you have people like Patrick Gerald, who basically gives us the dumbest scenario of all.
So when you have people looking at both scenarios, there's confusion.
Where do you stand?
There's a deafening silence.
I was waiting for you to go first.
Let me have a crack at this.
I like what David Icke said.
He said this 2012 business is just the latest spiritual Y2K. I have a friend whose 50th birthday party is on the 22nd of December 2012, and he's really looking forward to it.
I think that on the 1st of January 2013, then the whole alternative community is going to say, oh, we were fooled again.
You know what?
Now we've got to deal with the future.
And I'm saying this to anyone who will listen, that this is a distraction.
It's an engineered distraction.
I think that there are some well-meaning people who have put a lot of prominence on the idea of some special significance to these dates and to this year.
Of course we're living in extraordinary times.
I think this whole general time is a tipping point.
It's not a sharp-edged mountain tipping point.
It's like it's a kind of bell curve thing.
We're kind of gradually going over the edge into another kind of...
into another age, if you like.
It doesn't sort of end on one day and begin on the next.
It's not like that.
We're right in the middle of a huge transition at the moment.
And I suspect that this is what the Mayans were telling us.
Now...
As soon as we can get beyond that, I think that the alternative media will be focused.
I'm sure, I'm as sure as I can be, that anyone who wants to throw a spanner in the alternative media's works to confuse people and to take advantage of the internal accidental disinformation that there is within the alternative community has been delighted at all this 2012 nonsense because it takes attention away from the real issues.
Okay, well, what I would say is a little different than that.
I do agree that 2012, December 21st, whatever...
Actually, I think if you have a date that the people that are talking more about the October or November, there's some date in there, 2011, which is a little more accurate, in terms of that particular tipping point date that has astrological significance.
But by and large, no, certainly not an extinction-level event at the time.
I do believe that we're going to have escalating Earth changes, that that's by virtue of the Earth and our consciousness awakening.
Those earth changes will be mitigated or accelerated by some of that.
In other words, the consciousness in certain parts of the earth is at a different place than it is in other parts.
There will be the Secret government who are, you know, engaged in weather wars at this time, taking trigger points, causing earthquakes, tsunamis, and so on.
They have an agenda that does sort of have a fulcrum point, if you will, on 2012, you know, the 21st of December.
That goes into the whole religious, you know, Sort of mentality that is all about Armageddon and so on and so forth.
So there is a lot of energy that coagulates, if you will, around 2011, 2012, 2013.
There is evidence in terms of the planetary alignments and certainly the super wave that is approaching, and it's very possible that the super wave has started to come into our solar system.
We interviewed Paul LaViolette, and so did you, Mel.
There is evidence from, again, Jake Simpson, who said that we had superluminal travel, that we had sent craft out beyond the edges of our solar system, that they had detected the superwave approaching at a distance.
Now, how fast it moves and that sort of thing from the galactic center, it's kind of like, from what Paul LaViolette said, a sort of...
For lack of a better analogy, volcanic eruption within the center of the galactic center that then sends out a wave of energy.
There is a change that's happening that's impacting all of the planets in our solar system.
As you know, you know the work of Richard Hoagland and David Wilcock talking about planets heating up, certainly changes on the surface of Jupiter and Saturn.
And so on.
There seems to be preparations by the military-industrial complex with tremendous amount of underground bases and so on.
This is in every country around the world.
So they're definitely preparing for something.
Now, whether it happens in the year 2012...
Or preparing for the possibility of something.
Right.
But whatever they're preparing for, whatever they think they're preparing for, is also very likely to be something they saw when they looked into the looking glass and they were able to look into the future and saw the probabilities of certain sort of impactful events coming down the pike.
But again, our consciousness and the changing consciousness on the planet Is affecting those timelines, and there's no doubt that that's happening.
And so what I would say is that, yes, I believe that possibly there will be very little around the time of the actual dates of 2012, you know, 2012, the 21st.
However, I do think that we've got sort of an escalating, again, if this were a...
A movie, we would be moving up to a crisis point.
And I do believe that's happening.
However, the crisis won't be over after the 21st.
And it certainly is not going to be an event, in my view, on the level of what Patrick Jarrell and some other people think it will.
And I think that also it depends where you are on Earth, what you want to experience as a soul.
You will be in the place and time you need to be.
And what I think is also happening is that there may be There seems to be a growing amount of evidence to the effect that we are moving to another dimension.
And therefore, if you look into the work of David Wilcock, who is basically trying to delineate the scientific basis behind what appears to be a shifting of our planet and even of our solar system into another dimension.
There's evidence to believe that the Sun is also going to help escalate that process.
So it also depends, it creates what may be happening as a sort of a dimensional shift in which the Earth, part of the Earth is going on to one Sort of timeline, if you want to look at it in those terms, or dimensions, and another part of the Earth is going to be somewhere else.
Now, I do want to say that even in this time, on this day, let's say right here and right now where we are, We're having a perfectly lovely day here in Phoenix in the UFO Congress in February of 2011.
For us, it's a lovely day.
For someone else in another country, in another place, they may be having a cyclone, they may be having a tsunami, they may be having just rough weather.
In other words, right here and right now, you could say that our experiences are very, very different.
There's also the issue, and I don't know if you want to go here, but basically of talking about what appears to be a growing split or chasm between the mainstream paradigm and between the new paradigm that's actually coming in.
It's coming in like a wave, it's changing people's lives, and it's basically the paradigm of which You, Mel, and people like us are part of.
And we are at the sort of avant-garde of that wave, in my view.
And certainly the indigo children, if you followed that, and the crystal children and so on, are with us on that line, the edge of the wave moving forward.
So what you have, and Rich Dolan addresses this very well, is a split going on.
So that's happening at the same time that you've got a secret government that has basically been living, in essence, if you follow information we've gotten from Henry Deacon and Jake Simpson, maybe even as far as 10,000 years in the future.
In other words, they're dealing with technology That is so far advanced of what we have in the mainstream that they are many, many years beyond us.
So in essence, it could be, you may not look at it like this, but in many ways they have to time travel back to deal with this reality because when they go to work they're dealing in a completely different reality.
So, when you say that there are more than one timeline, more than one reality, what about the people that are taking a jump room to Mars right now?
What about the people that are going to the moon or working on the moon, coming back every other month?
What about the craft that are out there and there are people like on the Starship Enterprise who are working every day on a ship and never revisiting the Earth, but they are in theory humans that came into the reality at the same time we did.
So you're talking about multiple realities actually happening simultaneously anyway.
So, I don't think we have a doom and gloom in the future.
I do believe humanity is on an upward trend.
I mean, if you were going to view the trajectory of humanity, I think we probably started at a very high place.
There was an angelic humanity that ultimately came from the stars.
I think we're returning to the stars, if you want to use Bob Dean's terminology.
So in a sense, we're going like this.
So we're on our way back up.
It's a slow process.
I do believe that the people that are very heavily entrenched, some of whom are just going to protect their families during some cataclysmic-type earth change, whether it be the New Madrid Fault, which I believe is likely to go, It's quite possible that Yellowstone could erupt.
I know that a tendency is likely to be triggered and encouraged by the secret government because it facilitates an agenda that they have.
So it's important to sort of understand some of this is natural, some of this is mitigated by consciousness, and some of this is going to be triggered or encouraged or used, just like the rebellions and the revolutions happening in the Middle East at this time.
Those people have been in a state of Desire to change their world for a very long time.
They have been like a tinderbox.
So the fact that somebody threw in a match, whether it was the CIA or some other organization, it doesn't really matter.
They are making use of a sensibility that was already there.
And that's a very real rebellion.
But the fact is that the powers that be will steer it In the direction they'd like to see it go.
They're going to make use of it.
They are nothing if they're not taking advantage of every sort of twist in what's going on in the fabric of our existence to use it for service to self.
Are you saying that they're doing that?
They want to do that?
Are you saying they'll succeed in doing that?
Or are they saying they're going to try and they're going to fail?
Well, all of it.
I think in some cases they'll try and fail.
I think they're definitely attempting to do that now.
I think they couldn't help it but look down the paradigm, look down the looking glass and see the future and try to twist it to their advantage.
That's what they do.
They want to be in power.
How would they not do that?
There's some information that came my way.
Successful is a whole other matter.
Just to add to this.
Some information that came my way through this very interesting character who I gave the pseudonym to of Charles.
He refers to the fact that just as Bill Deagle told us a couple of years ago and said in his 2006 Granada Forum lecture...
That there exists a Cray-5 supercomputer with a virtual world model inside it.
Every transaction, every communication, every movement, every object, every personality profile is in there.
And they use the whole thing for predictive modeling using an artificial intelligence...level of computing facility, like a kind of...
...like the deep blue chess computer, which defeated Garry Kasparov, but about a trillion times as powerful.
They feed in all the data, and then they play for the scenarios, and that helps them to make their decisions.
As a separate thing from the potential existence of time portal technologies like Looking Glass.
What he told me in December...
It was one of the reasons why, in inverted commas, nothing bad has happened yet.
There hasn't been a war, there hasn't been a continuity of government in the US. We haven't seemed to have trodden on any of these civilization-ending landmines yet.
He said that they're forecasting all of these strategies, they're playing them forward, they're using their predictive forecasting capacity, and nothing's working out.
It all ends up in stalemate.
Every time they try and play the chess game forwards, it doesn't work for them anymore.
That's why they haven't done anything.
That's why they haven't moved any of the pieces, because it doesn't work out.
Now, I have no way of knowing whether that's true or not, but when I heard that information, it was fascinating.
I found myself thinking that that fits kind of with one of the things that we were pointing to before.
Is that the change in consciousness, the change in timeline, the change in paradigm, the change in our times here, are such that the global controllers, whoever they are, they no longer have a handle on the wheel.
They can't make this work out the way that they want to make it work out.
They're floundering around, they're losing control, they're panicking, they're making bad decisions, and sometimes they're making no decisions at all because they don't have any basis to make their decisions on.
For me that was fascinating.
It seems to fit.
It's a good model for me.
Let's take the example of the Middle East right now.
A lot of people are waking up.
First we have Tunisia, then we have Egypt, now we have Libya, maybe Jordan, maybe Syria, maybe the rest may go.
China is very concerned.
They're really watching things in China and other parts of the world.
The powers that be may be watching what's happening here, which may not be related to what we see in the Middle East, Wisconsin, Indiana, all the union strikes and so on.
Do you think that they're realizing that people are waking up somehow?
And the common denominator I'm seeing is people in the Middle East especially.
We are not fearful anymore.
We don't care.
We have nothing else to lose.
So if we have nothing else to lose, why fear?
That same feeling may be permeating around the world and what we're talking about 2012, plausible deniability.
The underground base is built by many companies including Bechtel.
Wouldn't that be a perfect scenario to use weather manipulation?
Call it what you will, but plausible deniability because nobody can point the finger at them You thinned the herd and now you can control less population.
Isn't that a perfect scenario when people are, especially those from a religious mode, are expecting something to happen?
What a great scenario for the powers Absolutely.
I mean, the stage is being set.
And I have to say that, you know, in terms of the Cray computer and the artificial intelligence, even if you go back to the Billy Meyer prophecies, the Hennock prophecies, that information is in there.
The AI, again, was something that Jake brought forward.
The information about the AI was also known to me before Jake talked about it.
It's been on the internet.
It's been out there.
The fact is that we are, as a civilization, fast approaching, having to deal with the notion of an artificial intelligence that is in advance of ourselves, that is able to grow and multiply in capability.
Faster than we are able to necessarily evolve into self-realization.
Because if we do that, then actually we will supersede anything that's even artificial, in my view.
Because we are multi-dimensional beings.
We are Several levels in advance of what you see here now.
In reality, in other words, we go back to source, ultimately.
We are creator beings.
And so, what happens is, when you're dealing with AI, or you're dealing with powers that be here on the Earth, or that want to be, as you put it, Mel, or that were, as David Wilcock likes to put it, I think you have to deal with what you're...
In other words, you have to delineate out the players.
Because with each group of players, there's a different scenario, a different group of possible scenarios that could be going on.
I mean, that is part of what we're doing.
We're actually at this point...
Reaching a level of sophistication within the Camelot Project and Avalon, in which we are now starting to pull out the agendas from the powers that be, that were, that want to be, that have been operational here on the planet for millennia.
And that means that you're talking about off-planet civilizations, you're talking about discarnate beings, you're talking about Beings that may be multidimensional as we are.
And you're talking and going above and beyond that.
So when you're addressing each sort of faction or each grouping, then some of the things that we realize about one grouping may then become invalid when you get to the next level.
And so it's difficult to have this kind of conversation in which we're talking about What may happen in the future?
Because you have to also bring in all these different threads.
If I bring in the Anunnaki and Nibiru, if I bring in, for example, the wing-maker material, which wing-makers being a group that supposedly ceded humanity to the earth originally, even before the Anunnaki came along and messed with them, and so on and so forth.
You're talking about levels, And I have to say that none of this is...
The 3D going into 4D is a so-called free will zone.
So within the notion of that dimension and the free will that we have here on the planet, there is a certain amount of leeway, I believe, within all the events and the possible events that may come along and the probabilities.
Outside of that, you may have a different game going on.
And once you get outside of that 3D going into 4D and then 5, you basically are dealing with another set of parameters.
And there is a matrix, and there's also a matrix around the matrix, and I believe levels to that.
And so when people say, well, they see through the matrix, but in essence they're channeling information, There's, if you listen to the Wingmaker materials and listen to what James said, he actually said that channeling is coming from a level outside the matrix, but it's a matrix in and of itself.
And that in a sense, that information is also canned, if you will.
So that's where some of these beings that are bringing in information, some of them inhabit a certain level or a dimension in which they are only seeing the level up into their consciousness and what they can bring to the table.
And therefore people, humans, that are doing things like channeling are also being misled.
They're misleading others because they think, oh well, it's beyond Earth.
It's beyond...
You know, the 3D hard knocks material reality that we know, so therefore it's wisdom, or therefore it's truth.
But actually there's always another level going on as you go on up.
And so I think that if we're looking at the future, You have to bring in all those aspects.
And you can't just narrow it down to one particular group and one sort of aspect of looking at it.
But I think certainly we have some challenges that have to do with robotic beings that look absolutely human and are indetectable as such.
Even by a doctor, according to Pete Peterson, who does a routine medical non-invasive exam, will not be able to tell that they're dealing with a robotic being, which has a form of artificial intelligence that goes back to a, you could say, a center where the artificial intelligence is orchestrating their behavior to some degree, or there's a link-up with that intelligence source.
Just to give a clue about what he's talking about, I believe he said on record in our interview that a corporation that...
a small corporation that Pete Peterson himself used to own was called Cyberdyne.
So you're talking about Skynet, like the Terminator movies.
In other words, these seem like movies, these seem like fantasies, but in reality...
They're real.
Okay, now they may not be inhabiting this reality here and now because actually they exist in underground bases that look like underground cities and they haven't come to the surface yet.
He said from time to time actually they do bring them to the surface, individual Then you're not even talking about the robotic beings that are coming from other planets, such as a certain group of the greys that are all artificial intelligence and basically biological entities, but they have no soul.
So, in a sense, the soul and the ability to go back to Source The creator is a determining factor.
And then you have levels, a division within that, in which there are robots.
If you get into the James Casenbolt material, there actually starts to become a division between material robots and a robotic ability to Maybe think of itself as having a sense of self.
Like a PLF? A programmable life form?
No, even going beyond that.
Well, this is according to James Casbolt material.
Now, some people would say, well, this isn't true.
It's absurd.
James Casbolt says that you're a CIA-trained psychologist, and I work for MI5. Okay, yeah, but James Casbolt has also brought in some very fascinating and excellent truth.
Okay, that's all I can say.
In other words, the fact that he's messed with...
That he himself is programmed, just like Henry Deacon, just like, well, to go down the line.
I have to say that if we have a witness, they're being messed with.
Therefore, you will get contradictory statements within the material they give you.
And that will be true also of you and me.
From time to time, there is contradiction.
One of the ways that you determine whether you've got a machine that you're dealing with or a human being is their ability to handle contradiction.
In other words, two completely contradictory ideas at the same place at the same time and to keep them in mind.
And that's actually what Disinfo is all about.
They believe that a lot of lower level human brains are unable to handle two contradictory ideas simultaneously.
This is something that, it's interesting actually, just to back up as to one of the techniques that's used.
And it's useful for listeners and viewers to be aware of this.
Pete Peterson told us this.
If you see a light in the sky and you're as sure as you possibly can do that it's a metallic disc and it's not one of ours and you saw this thing with your own eyes.
And then you get somebody who says, no, it's swamp gas.
No, it's an illusion.
No, it's the planet Venus.
And if you say that long enough...
You believe it.
Well, no.
People get confused.
The cognitive dissonance then becomes the dominant factor.
And then people become so uncomfortable with the cognitive dissonance, they say, you know what?
I'm going to move on to another subject.
When I say I believe it, I meant people, as you say, get so confused that they believe it's a lie.
But since you mentioned a few minutes ago the Anunnaki, it brings me back to my last conversation with the late Zachariah Sitchin.
We were discussing that NASA in 1983 discovered a planet in our solar system or approaching.
And they were so sure about it that the only thing left was to name it.
So I asked Zacharias Sitchin, why wasn't this information more mainstream?
It appeared in 83 and it disappeared.
And he said that the question should be, what would be the implications if they were to announce it?
Have you followed this?
Absolutely.
I interviewed Andy Lloyd.
He spent 10 years of his life investigating the reality of whether the Dark Star and or Nibiru, Planet X, whatever you want to call it, was a reality.
He eventually came to believe that it was a brown dwarf And this was also cross-correlated by Henry Deacon before my interview with Andy Lloyd, in which Henry Deacon told us it was common knowledge within the black projects and military industrial complex, the secret levels, that we were a binary star system.
And Charles said exactly the same thing.
He didn't understand it.
He's not a scientist.
He said it's a binary system.
He said it's not a big deal.
And Jake Simpson said the same thing.
It seems to be common knowledge out there.
What I suspect personally...
I'd be interested for Kerry's view, actually, because I don't really know it.
What I suspect personally is that this will be hyped when the time is right.
I don't think this is a civilization-destroying event.
I think it will be used as a convenient distraction.
That's my suspicion.
It'll cause anomalies in the sound, it'll cause anomalies in the weather, it'll cause anomalies in our magnetosphere, the dolphins will get lost, and all this kind of stuff that's starting to happen now, but it's not going to be a wipeout.
It's just another factor.
Now since you mentioned the magnetic pole, we both interviewed Dr.
Brookshack New recently, and we talked about how In the International Airport in Tampa, they had to close one of the runways because they had to repaint it.
That's how much it has changed, 25 miles per year.
That's a lot.
We have all the animal die-offs.
Some people say that it's unrelated, but in the month of January alone, several species, different animals, all falling, dolphins, fish, crabs, you name it, all happening at the same time.
How can that be unrelated if it's happening in the same month?
Absolutely.
My evidence or information that I've gotten from a very reputable source tells me that actually there are holes in the magnetosphere that are allowing this radiation or whatever it is to hit the earth not having a filter and that it's actually burning animals and plants and And fish and so on.
So there's that.
There's the phosphine gas that was released in the Wheeler situation in the area of, I forget, Arkansas, I think it is.
You know, there are also, apparently, there is some targeting, making use of radiation that's natural to the Earth that is pocketed in certain areas of the Earth, being used as a weapon.
In other words, being...
Being aimed and targeted at various life forms.
In other words, there's lots of experimentation going on with electromagnetics, with scalar weaponry, and so there may be some multiple reasons, as there is with the movement of the magnetic poles.
So all of these things are happening simultaneously.
That's why this is such a complex and fascinating game at this time, if you will.
One of the things that Henry Deacon told us when we first met him at the back end of 2006, this I think is pretty much in our first meeting, he said, the problem is that everything's converging, everything's happening at once.
And when you've got a situation where there are numerous factors that are affecting a situation, it's like having a scientific experiment with six or ten variables.
You don't actually know what's causing what, because you can't isolate the variables to take a close look at it.
And because everything's happening at once, it feels like that.
It feels confusing.
And even within the agencies, and whichever factors are controlling these things, not everybody has all the information.
Some of them are worried about Planet X, some of them are worried about the solar activity, some of them are worried about the geomagnetic changes.
And it's very, very unlikely that there are many Many individuals who are aware of all of the information and each of the agencies or each of these factions are actually controlling their own patch and steering how they can use these things to their own interests.
It's a huge confusion.
It's a big boiling pot of confusion.
How about the, I don't know if I can use this word, the monopolization of the food with GMOs with the water And now the air with chemtrails.
It seems that wherever we look, we cannot be outside without facing any of these threats.
Have you looked into the chemtrail phenomenon, by the way?
Oh, yeah.
I mean, we are very aware of it.
We've had various witnesses come forward with information, and we can delineate out some of that.
We talked with Henry Deacon about this originally in some of our first interviews, which happened early in Camelot.
All I can say is there's also the weather war aspect of the chemtrails.
There's the same use of some...
What do you call?
Particles of gold into the atmosphere to mitigate...
That's about the reflective layer, a little tiny kind of...
But also to shield Earth from...
So there could actually be some positive effects of the so-called chemtrails or some well-meaning actions being done by this military-industrial complex to protect aspects of the Earth.
Now there's also a dome being built over the Earth From what I understand, that will also shield out or make it easier for them to detect certain craft that can avoid radar, but these chemtrails may help them pinpoint these particular invading craft.
Because there is a war going on behind the scenes with various races that we don't get along with.
That may have agendas that may not be in our best interest or the best interest period.
Or on the other hand, it could be some of the more positive craft that the military industrial complex, having made pacts and treaties with various races and Entities that don't have our best interest in mind may be detectable.
So again, it's a complex matter.
It's not just simple.
There's also the idea of attacking the immune system of humanity.
There's also the dumbing down going on.
Certainly if you are struggling for survival and you also don't have good healthy food to eat, the GMO seed issue Basically, there does appear to be a whole movement on a part of a very dark group that wants to dumb down humanity, that wants to put them under basically lock and key, a very oppressive regime that's looking to lock down the future, to keep the planet Earth, to keep their power.
It relates back to the Georgia Guidestones, the fact that they have said, they've carved into the Georgia Guidestones the fact they want to eliminate a certain portion of the population that, I think, if you do the math, amounts to something like two-thirds of humanity.
95% of humanity.
Okay.
How they intend to do this is a multiple of ways.
There's not just one way they're doing.
They're doing it as we speak.
There's information they're doing it through food, through the GMO seeds.
They're doing it through chemtrails.
They're doing it through...
Various cataclysms, weather wars in different places, encouraging or allowing tsunamis to happen in certain places and not others.
There is a targeting that's going on to do with viruses.
Some people are susceptible, some beings are susceptible to different viruses that others aren't.
Racial groups.
There's a whole PROMIS software and that whole story has to do with that profiling, the bloodline profiling across the earth.
Let's try and compress this down.
We've got about four minutes left, I think.
Okay.
To risk summarising what...
What you've said.
All I can say to myself is that there may well be a program going on that is to do with optimizing and filtering the human genome towards certain agendas.
And there are numbers of different ways in which that can happen.
It may well be a multiple-pronged attack on the human race to an agenda of creating what could be called Humanity 2.0.
Now, as anyone who is familiar with computer upgrades knows, sometimes the upgrade actually just makes things worse.
They like to go back to the previous version of the software because it worked better.
We don't know what the agendas are, but they're trying to mess around with the human genome.
Would you agree with that?
Absolutely.
There's no doubt about it.
I mean, they've been messing with it from the beginning, all the different races.
Actually, Oshiana Dean's material documents, in the best way that I've seen, the history of the genetic manipulation of humanity since the beginning.
And that has been ongoing, and certainly the grays and the abductions has been all part of that.
And, you know, we don't have time to go into all of that.
But I would say that the way I sum it up is to say that there are two major paths, at least.
Which is robotic Superman or angelic human.
The fact of the matter is, is that you have a military, a dark cabal, military industrial complex that has these tools at their disposal that is not willing to wait to allow humanity to evolve on its own in a natural progression of self-realization, to become who they truly are, to become aware of the The multidimensional beings that we are.
They don't want to wait to allow that to happen.
Instead, they want to orchestrate it.
They want to control it, and they want to manipulate it.
Well, they're literally playing God, is what we're talking about.
Instead, they want to manipulate it.
They're literally playing God.
And one way of characterizing the way that the controllers operate is that they believe that God is absent.
And in the absence of God, they have the right to step into his shoes and do whatever they think that God should have done if he'd been around.
I mean, this isn't a caricature.
There's reason to believe that this really is the way that some human beings are thinking.
They feel that they have that right and that responsibility.
They don't even consider that they're evil.
They just consider that they're doing God's work in their own best way and that they know better than we do.
We could continue this conversation for days, especially with the amount of people you're a frequent part of me interview all the time.
I think it would be fantastic if we could do this Some closing remarks.
We have about one minute and a half.
Okay.
Well, I would like to say we are all creator beings.
So they are not wrong in considering themselves creative beings.
What I would say is that we are co-creators and that we work with the creator, if you want to call that God or whatever you want to call it.
And that, in essence, when you take that into your own hands and you push it towards a service-to-self agenda is where the problem is.
We are all sparks of the Creator.
So, in that sense, we are all God, and we are working on becoming gods, but Creator gods, if you will.
Good.
Okay.
I think we've turned the corner.
I think the future is not going to be the same as the past.
I think there were...
I think that the supertanker is turning.
It hasn't finished turning.
I think that we will be...
Sorry to interrupt, but I want to say thank you to both Carrie Cassidy and Bill Ryan from Projects Camelot and Avalon.
Websites?
What are your websites?
Projectcamelot.org.
ProjectAvalon.net.
It's been a pleasure, as always, and we'll talk to you soon.
This is Bill Paprika, signing off.
Until next time, be well.
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