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March 30, 2011 - Project Camelot

01:20:36

PROJECT CAMELOT : FUTURETALK WITH RICH DOLAN

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	Thank you.
	I think I've often felt that I'm a less interesting person to interview than a lot of the people that you've had.
	I never pretend to have a lot of dramatic inside information that Camelot has really become famous for putting out, so I'm just a lot more pedestrian.
	That is such a lot of nonsense.
	I think that you should introduce Rich.
	Okay.
	Okay, because you've got the deep history here.
	Deep.
	Very deep.
	No, yes.
	I have the deep info on Rich.
	Spill the beans.
	The 419.
	Here we go.
	As it were.
	Okay, this is Carrie Cassidy.
	And this is Bill Ryan.
	From Project Camelot.
	And we are here with Rich Dolan.
	And we are about to do a future talk with Rich Dolan, which will be very interesting.
	And just to refresh the audience's mind on what a Camelot future talk is all about, it's basically sort of a round-table discussion between the three of us.
	It's not so much to go into your material, because although you are the author of UFOs and the National Security State, and they're Volume 1 and Volume 2, and they're huge, thick books, and you're an incredible historian...
	Highly recommended.
	I want to plug these books on your behalf.
	Please do.
	I really want to plug this stuff.
	It's a wonderful historical document and possibly in future times it will be considered one of the most important historical documents of this critical time.
	Thanks.
	Yes, I would say it is the quintessential history of UFOs as we know them up to, well, up to the year you ended on, and I'm sure you're off to the next one, right?
	I am currently working on that third volume, which will take the story to the present day.
	That's right.
	Yes.
	Are you going to be able to catch up with the present day?
	Or is the present day accelerating away from you?
	Well, who knows?
	I think that I'll have the third volume done in about two years, coincidentally toward the latter part of the year 2012.
	Won't that be interesting?
	Possibly I'll have it finished on December 21st, 2012, for all I know.
	Good job.
	Okay, well, I have to say that we're all three extremely verbal, so this is going to be a real challenge to speak One after the other rather than on top of each other, but we're going to try.
	Let's do our best.
	So, and it's fun to be with somebody who really is as verbal as we are.
	So, at any rate, I would like you to give a little bit of your background.
	For the people that will watch this, won't know anything about you because, you know, the whole Rhodes Scholar finalist type thing, whatever, however you say that, and...
	Yeah, sure.
	I've been writing and researching UFOs for a little over 15 years now, since the mid-90s.
	Prior to that, I was Mr.
	Academic PhD wannabe.
	I was working on a PhD in Cold War studies at the University of Rochester in New York State.
	At that time, I was focusing on the presidency of Harry Truman, the birth of the national security apparatus that I've come to write about in my later books.
	In particular, I was doing a doctoral dissertation on Truman and this particular document called NSC-68.
	In national security, among those historians, it's actually a very well-known Cold War type of document.
	That was my thing.
	Prior to that, incidentally, I was a finalist for the Rhodes Scholarship.
	That was when I was an undergraduate student at Alfred University.
	My professors encouraged me to apply for the Rhodes, and I made the final cut, so not too bad.
	That was an interesting experience, incidentally.
	I did an interview down in New York City.
	The main woman running that interview was a We continually talked about how she was a close friend of Henry Kissinger.
	I'll never forget this.
	This was back in 1984.
	Big warning.
	Oh, big time.
	Let me tell you, even then, I really had a total aversion to anything connected to Kissinger and it really turned me off.
	And I've never said this to any other interviewer, but I really think that, in a sense, I torpedoed my own interview.
	I didn't come across well in that interview.
	I think I had an attitude to these people.
	And a lot of it was because of the environment that I found myself within.
	Suddenly, not knowing everything connected with the Rhodes scholarship that I learned later, just as a tool of the elite, let's say.
	Back then, it was just something that I thought I wanted.
	But being in that environment, I was really turned off.
	And I didn't give a very good interview, in my own opinion.
	I didn't get it.
	Dodged a bullet, maybe.
	Absolutely.
	And brought you over to us and to this whole arena that we're in and probably made you a very, very unique individual out there in the milieu because a person with your credentials and your methodical way of going about things at the same time, you're a fabulous writer.
	You could have been a journalist by trade.
	Thanks.
	And you're also a very interesting critical thinker, I have to say.
	Thank you, Carrie.
	So when you take that, an ability with story, and then on top of it, you're a fabulous speaker, you know, and I've sort of chided you about that, you know, and tried to get you to be even more fiery than you are because you have it in you.
	And everybody likes him, everybody suspects him.
	He's very good looking, he wears a suit, and I think this makes him highly suspicious.
	He's much too good to be true.
	He's got to be a clone.
	Oh, right, right.
	Well, no, I have to say, and you're also, you have an interesting background even beyond that, because you, you know, I don't know if you want to go into any of that, so I don't want to, we can always erase something from the tape or not put it on.
	Oh, okay.
	Say something that's not acceptable, because, you know, I know that you have sort of an, I don't know if you'd call it abductions or contact experience.
	Well, I have not had what I would say are any conscious abduction or contact experiences.
	What I will say, however, is that I've sometimes wondered if that's the case, and I don't have any proof one way or the other.
	The thing that I can tell you is that I do private types of investigations that I never write about.
	I can't write about.
	Maybe the day will come when I really feel that I'm able to without damaging the individuals who are involved in these.
	But suffice to say that Some of the things that I've looked into are really high strangeness, dealing with non-humans and a deep black human cabal as well.
	To wit, a lot of people who have had abductions that I'm convinced are military and non-military as well.
	There's a lot going on that I've been looking into, and I'm trying to make sense out of it as much as anybody else's one.
	And you've also got a background, you know, I'm going to say this, in the occult, in the philosophy of the Illuminati, like myself, you've studied that background.
	Well, I've always been interested in consciousness, always.
	I've always been interested in the possibility of other dimensions of reality, other levels of consciousness.
	It's not something that I would ever consider myself expert at in any way.
	But it's something, yeah, I'm interested in that, without a doubt.
	Right, so we've got a very open-minded explorer here.
	And it's probably part of the data set that's necessary in order to make sense of some of the information that comes your way, would you say?
	Well, sure.
	Look, in my journey in this field, I started out really in the mid-90s, and I was coming fresh out of a very rigid academic environment.
	And I can tell you, you were in that world for 10 years or more, which I was.
	You learn to think in a certain way.
	Now, there's a lot of advantages to that in terms of writing history.
	It's very, very helpful to maintain a lot of intellectual discipline over your subject matter so that you can present it in a way that's reliable and that can appeal to a lot of different people.
	On the other hand, That type of training doesn't really make it easy to get into some of the more difficult to quantify elements of what we deal with in terms of UFOs and ETs and dimensions.
	So what I've noticed in my own life over the last 15 years of doing this is we all are on our own journey.
	Now, publicly, I always try to position my writing and myself in such a way that I can reach out and talk to mainstream people.
	If I were interviewed by someone on NBC, I feel like I could do it, and I could speak that language.
	Because after all, look, everyone doing this field, we're part of a spectrum, and we all have our own audience that we have to deal with.
	And everyone's got something to contribute in that regard.
	And so if I'm able to speak in some way positively to a mainstream or to someone who's outside of our community, well, I think that's a good thing.
	However, the longer you stay in this field, the more obvious it is that this is a messed up, strange field.
	It would be like, if I were to just stick to little nuts and bolts, you know, sighting reports, it would be like going to this beautiful beach with this huge ocean and saying, yeah, I'm going to go feel the water for a while and I go out and get my toes wet.
	And then I walk back and say, okay, I'm done.
	I mean, perhaps without just going for a swim.
	At a certain point, you've got to swim in the water.
	And so I feel that I've done that.
	Which is to say that, yes, I've encountered a lot of things that are very, very bizarre that have challenged my own conception of what is real.
	I'll give you one example, and it's something that's second nature to probably you and many people listening, is simply the mental connection between people and these other entities, these other things.
	How many times is it that we come across a case where someone will say, I had this urge at 2 o'clock in the morning to sit up in my bed and look out my window, and I did, and there was this orange glowing ball out there.
	So what does that tell us?
	Well, it tells me that there's a telepathic connection between us and them, whatever them happens to be.
	And this is a very important part of it.
	In other words, our consciousness, our minds, are a very important part of what's going on here with this phenomenon.
	It might be the most important part.
	It might be, yeah.
	Our minds may be our souls.
	There's a lot of strange stuff going on here, and I happen to believe in this enigma called the soul.
	I didn't always, but I do.
	And I think that it exists.
	When this body of mine dies, when your body goes and decomposes, there's going to be a part of you that remains, that non-local part that the ancients called it the soul.
	I think it exists, and I do believe This is only my opinion, I don't know this for sure, that these other beings that are here interacting with us on this plane of existence, they know about that.
	I would say there's overwhelming circumstantial evidence to suggest that that's the accepted reality out there, and we're just kind of waking up to this possibility, and you feel...
	This is a question, the statement is a question.
	You feel that you've got to be kind of cautious about those suppositions because you have got kind of always one potential foot in the NBC interview camp.
	You've got to be careful about what people are hearing you say.
	And you've got a reputation to kind of defend and blow up.
	Honestly, I've made so many statements at this point that if they really wanted to trash me on NBC, they could do it.
	They'll use this interview among many others that I've given.
	So, you know, with that in mind, I'll just, if I get that opportunity again, I'll just have to deal with it the best way I can.
	Well, good for you.
	I mean, for us, I guess, if I dare speak on your behalf, this is a self-evident given.
	I've met so many people, myself included, who have vivid memories of past life recalls.
	These aren't inventions.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	This is for real.
	Yeah.
	And it's like it's an axiom.
	It's not a hypothesis.
	And there's been some very good work done on this, even in the, you know, much more quant...
	There's been a lot of quantified data that's available on this, going back many, many decades.
	So, yeah, I'm absolutely persuaded of it as well.
	Did you ever meet John Mack?
	Briefly, on one occasion I did, yes.
	It was in 2002, at a function for...
	As a kickoff for Steven Spielberg's miniseries Taken, and that was in New York City for the Sci-Fi Channel.
	I would love to have talked with John Mack more, because I've always had a high regard for him.
	But it was such a crowded function.
	I was a brand new guy on the scene.
	I'm not sure if he knew much about me at all.
	Someone shoved me in front of John Mack.
	There's all these other people around.
	And I chatted with him briefly, and we were very polite with each other.
	But I don't think I made much of an impression one way or the other on John Mack.
	I would like to have had a chance to have talked with him.
	Unfortunately, that never happened.
	Well, it just might interest you to know that the book he was working on before he died had to do with consciousness.
	So that it all comes back to consciousness, ultimately.
	And I find that with researchers in this field.
	You go out, you drill down in different areas that interest you, maybe nuts and bolts even, but ultimately it comes back to consciousness and to the heart and the mind and the spiritual aspect of what we're really interacting with.
	If I can just jump on top of what you just said here, I totally agree.
	I find that in my own life, every year or two, I'm reinventing my own paradigm of what is reality and I'm expanding my own consciousness.
	So you go into this field thinking reality is this one thing and then suddenly things don't fit and you go and there goes that layer of reality and that might work for a little while and then a year or two goes by and you think, no, this isn't right and we go Deeper and deeper.
	I'm not done.
	I'm pushing 50 now, and I'm still doing this.
	And I think that's the best thing.
	The number one best thing about having gotten into a field like this is that it has challenged my understanding of what reality is.
	Whereas, honestly, I think most people, they hit the age of, say, 30, and they're done.
	They've spent the rest of their lives filling in the blanks of what they think they know.
	Let me give you my own perspective on this, because just over dinner I was talking to some people about collecting the jigsaw puzzle bits.
	Okay, it's not a metaphor.
	And you're trying to make it fit into the picture that you think is on the box.
	You haven't actually seen the picture, but you've got an idea of what you think it probably looks like.
	And they don't fit.
	You try and force it to fit, and if you're honest, they won't really fit.
	And then the picture's got to get bigger and bigger and bigger.
	And this picture is pretty darn big, and you can't throw out any of the pieces.
	And what kind of goes with that is something to do with intellectual honesty of research, which is that you have to go where the data leads you.
	Exactly.
	And I understand, I really understand, as a kind of student of the human condition like you are, that some people don't want to do that.
	It's too uncomfortable, it's too inconvenient, it's too embarrassing, and sometimes it's really unpleasant.
	And we found ourselves following this data trail to places, it's like, I don't even like what I'm looking at here.
	I don't want it to be true.
	I don't like this nasty, icky stuff.
	But my God, maybe it's real.
	We can't discount it.
	And this is the kind of thing which you're touching on in what you were saying just then, isn't it?
	Yeah.
	I find myself in a position of almost walking a tightrope in the sense that I'm trying to gather together evidence in a way to present it to a world in a way that's understandable, comprehensible.
	And acceptable.
	I'm always in a situation of what do I include and what do I leave out.
	I want to include everything that I think is valid.
	Certain things that I'm presented with I don't think are always valid, but Then later turn out to be maybe valid partially.
	And it's hard always to know at the time what to work with and what not.
	That's a messy business.
	Let me say that your presentation yesterday, I guess it was, was excellent.
	Thanks.
	And I think that this talk that we're having here can also touch on some of those subjects.
	Sure.
	And I'd love to kind of go down some of those roads with you.
	Absolutely.
	You know, you're dealing with Camelot, and we are on the, in many ways, from many people's points of view, the far reaches of the fringe.
	Although we have a very large audience, surprisingly, even though we do go out to the fringe.
	That's right, yeah.
	So we allow in, and especially me, even between the two of us, I think, in some ways.
	My window, whatever you want to call it, is just really very, very open to all kinds of things.
	So if somebody approaches me with a story, no matter how outlandish it is, I'm going to consider it.
	I'm going to listen.
	Now, that doesn't mean we're going to publish it, but that's where our discretion does come in.
	And I'm sure you have the same issue, where a story comes to you, a witness, even maybe more than one, Talking about a phenomena like the reptilians, for example.
	Sure.
	And then you can even throw it out and just close your mind and say no.
	Or in our world, what we agreed to do was to get the truth out.
	Whatever the truth is.
	Now we have to investigate it, we have to entertain it, we have to allow for it in a very wide way.
	That means that we're talking about, as you said, other dimensions.
	We're talking about time travel.
	We're talking about stargates.
	The fact that we might have gone into Iraq because of the stargates, because of the stargate there.
	That it wasn't the oil, it was the stargate.
	That's a very real thing.
	At least for me, that's a really very real hypothesis.
	Okay.
	And it's been substantiated by a number of sources for me and for us.
	And there's more.
	I mean, you know, there's a lot more.
	And so I'm wondering, because as you go into the next volumes, you're going to have to, in my view, this whole...
	It's kind of like it starts out like this rather narrow.
	And even for you as a historian, it actually widens because...
	Human consciousness is becoming like that.
	In other words, the paradigm, even for the masses out there, has become wider as we've left the 50s, if you will.
	At least in terms of things from that perspective.
	I understand where you're coming from.
	The way that I would deal with any of these topics of the last 20 years, which is the Which is going to be the content of the final volume of UFOs in a national security state.
	My methodology is not going to change in the sense that I will work off of as reliable a body of evidence as I can.
	But that doesn't mean that I'll avoid certain topics just because they're uncomfortable for me to deal with.
	And so I'm very interested in asking and dealing with some of these very controversial ideas.
	And to look at them fairly.
	And just because there's not hard evidence to support it doesn't mean that I don't think it may be true.
	In my last volume of history, I let a lot of stuff hang out, and I don't feel the need.
	It's not my job as a historian to take my gavel and pound the desk and say, that's true and that's BS. I don't have to do that every time.
	Sometimes I feel that I'm able to make a judgment one way or the other, and I may put that out, hopefully with a light touch.
	But a lot of times I just don't know.
	So the best that I can do sometimes is simply present the best evidence on all sides that I can and just leave it.
	I can't solve every single problem.
	And really it's beyond any one person's ability to solve every one of these issues.
	It's too much.
	It's a minefield of 500, 1,000 or more hot topics that just don't easily allow for a solution necessarily.
	Yeah, it's like a hall of mirrors.
	One thing that I really loved that you did in your presentation yesterday was when you talked about the fact that there's actually created what you called a breakaway, almost a breakaway civilization.
	Within our culture, we've got a breakaway.
	And I would call it almost a rogue culture.
	Yeah, I think that's one way to look at it.
	And in many ways, and we were talking to Bob Dean about this yesterday, and You know, he's actually like a leader in sort of our arena as a spokesperson in many ways, having come from, you know, really having a secret, above-top secret clearance and then moving into our sector of things.
	And so he's had real hands-on, you know, involvement in that sort of breakaway civilization, if you will.
	But he's come into what is the masses, Right.
	And I think you've illustrated this wonderfully on your presentation.
	Thanks.
	Well, yeah, the basic idea is something that I've been working for the last couple of years.
	I introduced it in Volume 2 of my history and expanded on it in A.D. And the idea is really not a complicated one.
	It's based on the idea that if you go back 60-plus years, we've recovered a piece of exotic technology from Roswell or some other crash retrieval, let's just say.
	You have teams of genius-level scientists looking at this with a lot of money, lots of layers of secrecy, and a lot of time.
	And so at a certain point, I think we can assume that they're going to have one or more eureka moments where they understand this technology in ways that are going to make a difference.
	That might mean they can improve integrated circuits or develop fiber optics, but it also might allow them...
	To have breakthroughs that are even more exotic and better than that.
	Let's say, anti-grav or, you know, field propulsion technology.
	Now, if they make that type of a breakthrough, that might be something conceivably, probably, that their superiors would say, you're not going to be sharing this with the rest of the world.
	That's a little bit too important.
	Something like anti-grav, for example, would take down the petroleum industry.
	Poof!
	There it goes.
	Because whatever these objects are using to go from point A to point B, it's not petroleum.
	So that by itself is a world changer.
	And it would be withheld of necessity in the opinions of those people managing this secret.
	They're not really out looking for the betterment of humanity as a whole.
	That's a little bit too grand for their scheme.
	What they want to do is maintain their position vis-a-vis other players.
	So what would happen then?
	Let's say that you make a breakthrough in the 1960s on field propulsion and you start to develop your own fleet of flying saucers.
	Well, the way science works, of course, is that it doesn't just go at a linear thing.
	It's exponential.
	It builds on itself.
	I need a little bit of water here.
	I'm so sorry.
	No, that's fine.
	We can put a cut right there.
	It builds on itself.
	And so that it's really not inconceivable, is it, to imagine one breakthrough leading to a new understanding of some fundamental scientific reality, which may lead to another breakthrough, and on and on.
	So that this clandestine group suddenly starts leapfrogging, jumping, and now the next thing you know is they are way ahead of the rest of us.
	Is that possible?
	Absolutely it is.
	I'll give you one case in point.
	I had a conversation years ago with a former NSA scientist who told me point blank that NSA computing capabilities in the mid-1960s Had them running at a clock speed of about 650 megahertz.
	Now today, that's chump change.
	That's nothing.
	Everyone's got laptops faster than that.
	But the key point is that the personal computing world didn't reach that clock speed until around the year 2000.
	So that the NSA was 35 years ahead of the rest of the world.
	That's a lot.
	So what would be the case?
	And then you ask, where are they now?
	You know it.
	And in the case of a group that might even have something ahead of the NSA in terms of ET technology or capabilities, where would they be in terms of AI, in terms of nanotech, in terms of biotech, in terms of the ability to go off-world, in terms of the ability to deal with dimensions?
	I think that this is all very significant.
	What it means is that they are, in a sense, a different civilization than we are.
	I mean, what is a civilization?
	Well, it has to do with your level of technology, your cosmology, your understanding of your place in the universe, and all of those would be different with these guys.
	And so, I call them a breakaway civilization.
	They've broken away from our own.
	That doesn't mean, by the way, that they never interact with us.
	I mean, they've got families, they've got reunions, they do their thing, but they also live in this other world.
	And my theory is simply that the farther ahead they get, very probably, the harder it's going to be for them ever to try to bring the rest of us up to speed.
	I can see this being the case.
	Even if you've got sympathetic insiders, and I believe there are.
	They might be asking themselves, how the hell do you bring in 7 billion other people now who live in this little cartoon version of reality compared with what we've got?
	How do we bring them up to speed even if we wanted to?
	That may not be easy to do.
	And do we want to?
	That's one of the bigger questions.
	Exactly.
	If you look at the Georgia Guidestones and you read Iron Mountain reports, it's highly possible that they'd rather just kill a good portion of them.
	Yeah, let us die off in some way.
	In light of that, now that we've kind of painted that picture, I want to touch on the idea that we are actually a bridge.
	That the disclosure that we're involved in, that we are out disclosing in our way through these kinds of conferences, through the books we write, through the interviews we do in the case of Camelot.
	And so on.
	And we are actually, people come to us and say, oh my God, you've changed our life.
	So we are able to change their paradigm out there by bringing them along.
	And the people in the one half of the civilization, the very accelerated half that is basically the hidden portion, depends on us, in my view.
	As that bridge now because they begin to realize that the gap is so wide that it's almost impossible for us to coexist.
	We're a valuable asset.
	I think we're a valuable asset and so are you.
	That's an excellent point.
	And so instead of killing us off like they used to want to do, and they did, and there's documented evidence of that, within a parameter, and actually I feel like at this point they actually don't kill people so much because they figure they've won the game and they're in charge to such an extent that and actually I feel like at this point they actually don't kill people so much because they figure they've won the They may mind control them, but they don't kill them.
	So ultimately what they're doing now is using people like us to bridge that gap, to begin to bring disclosure of what they've got going on so they have leaks down to us.
	Let me jump in as well.
	I'm going to infuriate you by, I'm not reinterpreting what you're saying, but I'm putting it in a metaphor.
	It's a metaphor that I really, really love.
	And it's a reaction, it's a controlled reaction like a nuclear reaction in a reactor.
	When you speed it up, you take out the control rods.
	And if it gets out of control, you don't want it to be like Chernobyl.
	Then you've got to put the control rods back in there again.
	And the control rods are leaning on people to say, you know what?
	Don't say that if I were you.
	You know, you might never see your dog again.
	Or, in the olden days, it might have been something much worse than that.
	Now, I think things are done in a more gentle way, just a whisper in the ear, and we've had a few of those.
	It's like, you know what, you should really run that past me first, read my lips, and all this kind of stuff.
	But sometimes, they want the reaction to accelerate a little bit, and then someone will have the go-ahead, who you've called, who's an insider, to say more than you thought they were going to say.
	And all of this is sanctioned.
	They could squash us all like bugs, and they could instantly stop anyone who's talking to you off-record, and they don't do that.
	Excellent point.
	I've many, many times wondered.
	I've had evidence in my own life of having been messed with on occasion.
	For several years, I was stopped at every single airport I went to.
	My name was flagged.
	I was allowed to fly, but that was delayed every single time, 15, 20 minutes, I'd have to sit around.
	I've had luggage open, sent to Dulles multiple times opened up, rifled through.
	I've had the vans in front of my house.
	I've had all kinds of crazy stuff like that.
	But I've really never been threatened.
	And all of that type of heavy-handed, almost Marx-Brother type surveillance that I experience is gone now as far as I can tell.
	What has also happened is that there have been a number of people that I have to say are very high-level, well-placed insiders who have Come to me.
	Some of these people I know, and they're very well known and famous.
	Others, I have no way of confirming who they are.
	A few of these can only be described as very deep, very deep insiders.
	And some of those I can't confirm them, but I've had an enormous amount of information for some of these people.
	But it must be sanctioned, mustn't it?
	Sure.
	The impression that I've got from some of these contacts has been...
	They do this on the sly.
	Now that's the impression that they give to me, or they have given to me.
	And by the way, I haven't heard from this particular group in some months now, and I don't really know what the deal is with them.
	There were a couple of people who would write to me.
	Lots of information.
	Is it true?
	Is it not true?
	Well...
	Hard to say.
	There are times when I've been inclined to think, yes, they're telling me the truth.
	It's also a possibility to wonder if you've been taken for a ride, and so I've got to be careful.
	The impression that I get, though, is that these are individuals within the deep black clandestine structure who support what I do and have decided on a limited basis to give me a little bit of information about the nature of their world.
	That being said, what I'll say of this scenario is, very possibly, one in which, let's call it the majestic group, the secret keepers, they're not just 12 guys, it's a large, sprawling bureaucracy group that is international, operated not by U.S. DOD funds at all, it's all international money.
	Big-time private money.
	That goes in.
	They own all the goods.
	There's also factions involved, as it's come down to me.
	Human factions and multiple alliances.
	That's right.
	All right?
	Of human and non-human groups.
	And who the hell knows who's got a scorecard here to sort all these guys out?
	I'm not sure that they do.
	The impression that I get.
	And also the impression I get is that I call them majestic.
	I think the majestic group is actually scrambling to try to stay on top of this, to deal with One difficulty after another that is arising in this world due to the intervention of forces that they really cannot control, not all of which are benevolent.
	This is the impression that I'm getting.
	Sure.
	So that there's a kind of war going on.
	Yes.
	Forces, entities, groups.
	Interests.
	Absolutely.
	Not all.
	They don't even know.
	It's possible they don't even know that these are extraterrestrial.
	I think they're dealing in some way with dimensional forces, dimensional groups.
	And again, look, this is just how it's been presented to me.
	I don't know for sure that this is true.
	It's just some possibility that I'm looking into.
	But if that scenario is as it appears to be, it's a wild story.
	And it's not hard to see why they would want to keep a lid on this in terms of letting the public know about it because it would be explosive.
	It would be absolutely explosive, if it's true.
	Yeah, the real story, when, you know, because when people talk about disclosure, I don't, you know, I think it's all very nice and fine for people to talk about little gray aliens that go around, you know, abducting people, and then the military has made deals with them, they've got some flying tosses, some other technology, and that's it.
	That's the end of the story.
	That's simple, right?
	Yeah, very simple.
	You know, that could be disclosure, you know.
	That may be all they're prepared to say.
	But actually, from what we've heard, The story is so much more complex than that.
	Yeah, I think so too.
	And it does involve, from what we've heard, battles, in other words, going on between various groups, some of which are human, some of which are human and the others, some of which All look human, but they may be from off-planet, and so on.
	And, I mean, the mixtures of groups is really complex.
	And there are also aspects where...
	They may not have all the information themselves.
	They may have unanswered questions.
	They may not understand it.
	They may be freaked out.
	And one of the problems with the so-called presidential press conference where he spills the beans is it's pretty hard for the president or for a five-star military general to say, well, you know what, that's a good question, and gee, we just don't know the answer to that.
	I agree.
	One of the points that I've tried to make regarding disclosure is, first of all, look, I am and am not a disclosure advocate.
	I mean, in a way I am and in a way I'm not.
	I know full well that disclosure is going to be very messy and, as I've been lately saying, a very unsatisfying proposition.
	And it's not going to be fun.
	Having said that, I think, as I've often said, it's a paradox.
	It's impossible, but it's inevitable.
	It's impossible in the sense that the people who've got this secret, I see no motivation at all on their part for giving it up.
	Why would they?
	A, you've had this secret in your possession for a lifetime.
	That's difficult to explain to the world right off the bat.
	Then you've got the whole tech issue involved.
	You know, what do you have?
	What toys do you have that the rest of us don't have?
	There's going to be a lot of public anger.
	Then you've got the economic financial picture in which you're replacing petroleum.
	Because look, after there's a disclosure statement, it's going to take all of five minutes for someone to put together the fact that these things don't need petroleum.
	So what are we going to move on to next?
	And then there goes the petroleum industry.
	Just for starters.
	So what's going to happen?
	The order of the day is going to have to be stalling for time.
	Has to be.
	And so in other words, disclosure is not the end of the game here.
	Disclosure is the beginning.
	It's the opening shot in the next battle for truth.
	A president will, let's say it's a president, is going to say, yes, apparently there are others who are here and not all of these objects are ours.
	Well...
	Then what?
	How do you deal with abductions?
	That's going to be really not fun to talk about.
	And so, the best that a president will be able to do in those opening days and weeks, if he's lucky, is to be able to say, we're working on it, we're going to have as open a process as possible, and we're going to make sure that people are safe, and we're going to make sure that we get the answers so that you can know.
	And then just stall.
	But the real issue is going to be then, there's going to be lots of Angry and inquisitive people and there'll be a lot of researchers who have been digging into this issue and you know people like us will have something to say about it and guess what a lot of people will be listening and so the issues are going to get on the table really quickly and Sorting it all out is going to be a massive battle royale and We'll also be possibly in a very unsatisfactory position of being able to
	know for sure that there are other beings that are here, but not being able to just pull them and put them on a podium and subject them to questions in a Kamala interview.
	Wouldn't it be great to have one of them on here?
	That may not be possible.
	And so we're not necessarily going to be in a position where we can satisfy all of our questions.
	And this could go on for years.
	It could go on for generations.
	Well, there's also the idea that if you think about it from the point of view of them, whoever they are, and all the different aspects of who they are, you could imagine that it's kind of like stars standing behind a stage and vying for who gets to go out on stage first.
	Because if you think about it, Why do the Andromedans want to let the Pleiarens out on stage first?
	Maybe they get along and that's okay.
	But I don't think that the Greys are going to be so happy about that.
	And then what about the Reptilians?
	What if one of those groups wants to stay backstage and the other group wants people to know about them because they actually...
	Have to consider that that group is a threat.
	And that's where you get into this whole sort of craziness.
	And then there's also the other aspect, which is...
	And various aspects, for example, of the military have been aligned with various different races already.
	So, there you already have a sort of battle going on behind the scenes for the group of Nordics, let's say, that are affiliated with the Air Force versus the army, I mean, and I'm guessing here, who is aligned possibly with a certain group of and I'm guessing here, who is aligned possibly with a certain
	And then there's supposedly another group of greys who are bigger and taller and may have, let's see, humanity's best interests more at heart, so to speak.
	Then another group of grays, and so it goes.
	And this kind of discussion, it's not like it's not already been out there.
	And we do have movies about ETs and various kinds of ETs.
	We do have V on the television right now.
	And to me, this is one of the best scenarios in terms of the possible ways that this could actually fall out.
	Because this is where you get a group that seems so congenial That they're such good guys, and wouldn't that be the great way to keep the peace?
	And The Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke, which addressed all these issues from the point of view of a guy who, from Hoagland's point of view, actually knew what was really going on.
	I see, yeah.
	Well, what you're also bringing up, which is an important point, is how would a disclosure event affect these other beings?
	And another thing that comes to mind is simply, would there be contingency plans in place?
	There have to be, to deal with disclosure.
	And would that mean a quick military-type action by one group against another?
	Is that a possibility?
	Yes.
	I mean, the impression that I've sometimes gotten from various sources that I've talked to is that there is possibly a kind of clandestine war going on.
	This is something that just recently John Alexander adamantly denied, in which I disagree.
	So if there is...
	Then a disclosure would have a key effect on those relationships.
	And, yeah, things could get really ugly really fast.
	The only reason it's going to happen anyway, despite all the difficulties...
	Look, it's not hard to see why the powers that be would say...
	This is such a mess.
	Let's just keep things nice and tight and quiet the way they are.
	It's not hard to see it.
	The problem, though, is that the greatest variable in this entire equation isn't the secret keepers and it's not these other beings.
	It's us.
	We are the variable.
	We as a society, as a species, because look at us, man.
	It's 2011.
	It's not 1991, and it isn't 1971.
	We are going like this.
	And what are we going to look like in another 20 years?
	40 years.
	Good Lord, man.
	We're going to have a world in which AI is going to be ubiquitous and strong.
	Your personal computer might have an IQ of 500 or 1,000 for all we know.
	And it won't need coffee to get its mojo going in the morning.
	And it won't need sleep.
	It'll be able to pull any bit of data off the web, bam, like that.
	We ourselves may have nanochips implanted to enable us to communicate with the web.
	What are we going to be like?
	And then there's biotech in general, genetic modification.
	In that scenario, in that world, alright, here's the thing that's become very obvious to me.
	These other beings, see, they've got to know this.
	They know that we're about to leap right into their world.
	Absolutely.
	And so that they've got to be interested in us supremely, right now, knowing this.
	And so that we're going to be in the position Within 20 years, I think it has to be the case, where we're going to have this capability of detecting just exactly who they are.
	I almost can't even begin to imagine how crazy the world of the next 20-30 years is going to be.
	With the reality of a non-human presence interacting with us, with a greater understanding of dimensionality than we do today, with greater capabilities in our own selves and with our tools like computers in understanding this, It's going to be crazy.
	Okay.
	Let me ask you the kind of question that I would have loved to ask if you were able to take questions after your presentation.
	And I'm not a negative guy, I'm not a devil's advocate by natural persuasion, but some people watching this would want us to ask these questions.
	Okay.
	Is it possible that the level of complexity that we could be crashing into could be another whole level of deception, like the kind of macro scale version of the military saying, you know what, those Roswell, it was just, actually it was top secret crash dummies, you know, that kind of thing.
	There are various ways that this could happen.
	Can you be more specific?
	So what kind of scenario are you referring to?
	Okay, right.
	One, okay.
	If I was a Pentagon general with a really nasty controlling evil intention, I would think, you know what?
	The best way to break this to the world is in a crisis footing, where people are so panicked and so freaked out that they're not going to ask the smart questions.
	They're going to be worried about their survival.
	Hence, you end up in the whole Project Bluebeam situation, where you get a War of the Worlds situation where you've got these...
	Aliens coming down, shooting people up, whether it's real or not, and suddenly the reality is disclosed, because it's all over the television screens, or you've got the Independence Day stuff, or the big ships, whether they're real or not.
	But no one's asking these questions, which, in peacetime, as it were, we have the liberty to ask, because people are thinking, my God, we're pleased we've got a strong military that's able to save us against this stuff.
	No one's asking the smart question.
	Well, look, we live in a world of false flags.
	We all know about 9-11.
	We know about a whole bunch of other things.
	Remember the anthrax scare?
	Gee, wasn't that interesting?
	We live in a world in which we are lied to and manipulated.
	And so, in terms of scaring the hell out of the public in order to create a global fascist state is something that we have to be very vigilant about.
	I agree with this.
	And it also solves the problem.
	It solves the disclosure problem, you see.
	Well, sort of.
	It does and it doesn't.
	In terms of Bluebeam, I just want to point out, I did some investigation of Bluebeam as well.
	There was supposed to be a Bluebeam event, if you recall, on October 13th.
	I know, it's nonsense.
	It was nonsense, and I said so long before it happened.
	Good.
	The origin of the Bluebeam theory was from a general guy named Serge Monast.
	I looked into his background, and the fact was, it's just a load of nonsense, in my opinion.
	But the theory as a tactical device to use, It makes strategic military sense that some people might do this.
	The question is getting the details right.
	So you're going to have to convince the world that there is a hostile alien threat and they're about to get us.
	So you're going to have to come up with presumably documents, you're going to have to come up with ETs.
	See, part of the problem is going to be convincing the scientific community about this.
	And no matter how you put out the disclosure, There's going to be an issue of persuading, say, the National Academy of Sciences, which is a very, very...
	To call them skeptical on UFOs is a gross understatement.
	But putting the ships above all the major cities around the world would kind of close that statement.
	Unless there are holograms that are so persuasive.
	They have ships.
	But would persuasive holograms really do the job, ultimately?
	We believe they have the craft.
	So we know they have superluminal travel now.
	We know they've got black triangles.
	We know some of those UFOs that people are seeing are military.
	They're ours.
	Whatever ours is.
	Look, they don't even have to have all holograms.
	They can do a combination of.
	And the thing is that I agree with you in the sense that I've always said this.
	In fact, if they do attempt a Project Bluebeam type invasion scenario with the crap that they have and some holograms and so on and so forth, that ultimately the real guys are going to have a say in that scenario because they're going to say, "Well, wait a minute, dudes.
	We are real.
	Exactly.
	And we're going to come down and actually have a counter message.
	All of this is predicated.
	It's all predicated on the fact that these other beings are not going to do a thing about it, seems to me.
	And that's taking a mighty big risk.
	Because they're so involved right now.
	I mean, if we, you know, we're in this sector where we're getting disclosure and we're getting...
	Witnesses that are having contact constantly, not only people like us, but possibly yourself, but certainly many, many people that attend these conferences and many that don't.
	People that write to us every day, every single day.
	I get emails, all the stories.
	You wouldn't believe it.
	It's amazing.
	I had one woman just come up to me yesterday from Puerto Rico and say she has a crystal child and that we saved her life because of an interview we did.
	Because her child was able to see documented on the screen with us what he was seeing in his real life and he was having trouble living in that sort of mainstream paradigm in which the world we talk about doesn't exist.
	So, I mean, that's what we're dealing with.
	We're dealing with ETs that are actually, they are involved not only with our military, but with us.
	The way they're involved with us, in some cases, is much more secretive in many ways than even...
	What we understand from the military, because we hear that, you know, Dan Burish says he's working side by side with them, and we've got Henry Deacon who said the same thing, we've got, you know, Bob Deacon walking the halls of the Pentagon.
	The easiest way for the ETs to influence our society, whatever their intentions are, however many different groups are involved, is to incarnate as us, and then play the game from within.
	I think that's, actually, I believe that's what's been happening.
	Well, that's what is happening as well.
	You know, if any of us were non-human-looking ETs and we were interested in this society down here and we would want to influence it, well, you'd either want to put your people, get some of those people to work for you, or you would create your own, or you would somehow work to infiltrate that society and manage it so that when it gets to a point where it might be a real pain in the neck for you to deal with, you're in a position where you've got influence and control over it.
	Your own team on the ground.
	Right.
	You've got a whole bunch of sleepers.
	And I think that this is absolutely a real possibility.
	Absolutely.
	You know, figuring it all out is going to be a very difficult situation.
	The one thing that I tried to do in writing this book, by the way, is to show, yes, there's a possibility of these very, very bad scenarios taking place.
	I tried not to avoid any of that.
	But I wanted to...
	See, I wanted to show that it is possible to see that there's a better way here, that there is a better possibility for our species and our society.
	So, in other words, let's look at the political upshot of a disclosure process.
	It could be a fascist police state.
	Right now, there's a battle in the world about that going on.
	We all know it.
	And that battle is going to amplify, I think, after disclosure.
	But it doesn't have to go all one way.
	And we're seeing this now in the actions of the Arab people in the Middle East.
	We can see that change happens fast.
	And that there is such a thing still as people power in this world.
	It can be disabled.
	Right now in Egypt, the army is batting down the protesters, so it's not clear where all this is going to go.
	But that revolution is not done.
	So in a post-disclosure world, what are going to be the issues?
	Let's say you're the president.
	Is it possible that that person, despite the fact that he was put into power by the Bilderberg elite groups, Illuminati, put right into the White House, is it possible that that individual might have a moment where he sits down or she sits down and decides, we have a possibility here for something really positive, in which...
	He or she may want to take on, A, the black budget clandestine breakaway group that has managed this.
	There will certainly be political pressure to do so, I think.
	It seems to me that people are very instantly going to be wanting to know how you've kept this secret in place.
	The structure of secrecy, unless the fascist state comes down, boom!
	Like one heavy curtain, there's going to be a lot of discussion about this structure of secrecy.
	And there's going to be a lot of angry people.
	And a president or any leader is going to have to deal with that.
	And unless he starts shooting everyone all at once, there's going to have to be a way to deal with this politically.
	And so there will be, very possibly, some serious deep investigations that are held publicly.
	And a president will have a chance.
	I think, to take a very courageous decision and to gain control over, in the United States, of the US system of government.
	Away from these black budget clandestine groups and to find out where they are, where the money is, what the programs are.
	At the same time, fighting another battle.
	And this other battle will be to coordinate internationally, globally, I would like to see, an open process of cooperation to enable the nations of the world to transition peacefully to a new form of energy, a post-petroleum world.
	And then B, to find a way to collaborate to meet the challenge posed by these other beings, whether positive or negative in intention.
	I realize that's asking a lot.
	I realize that that's so idealistic that maybe it borders on utopia and maybe that's what it is.
	And it's assuming that the President makes the calls.
	It is indeed assuming that.
	There's no reason to say that a President is going to do that.
	A President could just as easily follow his corporate international masters and say this is not how it's going to go down.
	But, last thing I want to say though, is that the voice of the people on planet Earth may not be so easily amenable.
	Alright?
	And we're seeing this now in parts of the world today, and it can very well be the case post-disclosure.
	I support that.
	Well, I think you also have to keep in mind, though, that disclosure, this thing we call disclosure, which is happening, as Bob Dean says, we actually have been in a rollout for the last 20 years, if you will, of disclosure.
	In various ways, movies, films, books, what we're doing, okay?
	And you can argue for that.
	I have a slightly different take on it, but go on.
	Okay, yes.
	But it is a rollout of a sort.
	And so at that point, you can really say that we're not just a closed system right now, Earth, with a few different visitors, so to speak, dipping their hands into the pot here.
	We are actually...
	Entering as a solar system, a galactic community, but also we have, if you listen to Paul LaViolette, and you look at what's happening in terms of the dynamics with the changes on the sun...
	And the fact that it's a super wave of energy coming towards us.
	One of our witnesses, Jake Simpson, said that using superluminal travel, they sent craft out beyond our solar system and actually were able to see this wave coming towards us.
	Okay?
	All right.
	And this was several years ago.
	So at this point, you could assume that it's almost here.
	The changes on all the planets in our solar system are well documented at this point by Hoagland and Wilcox and other people.
	Scientifically.
	So when you're looking at those changes...
	Well, let me just say, it's all in the data.
	And if the data is scientifically measurable and confirmed, then that's one thing.
	Absolutely.
	So what you have is a possibility of a new body coming into the solar system at the same time as all these other things.
	So here on Earth, we've got this tumultuous, almost on the verge of revolution, what I call a revolution of consciousness, happening among the masses, simultaneous with all these facilitating things going on to some degree, working for and against Earth changes, things simultaneous with all these facilitating things going on to some degree, working for and against Earth changes, things that are being done on purpose, whether wars being conducted There's lots of evidence of that happening.
	And so that scenario is not simple in terms of just, well, you have a president sitting here looking at the playing field and saying, well, wait, stop there, and let's talk about this.
	Actually, it might not be that easily delineated.
	And what we may be looking at, also because In terms of the power structure.
	It's not the president, obviously.
	And it's groups like possibly Scion, which is MJ-12's new name for themselves, supposedly.
	And then City of London, which is maybe even above that.
	And aspects of that.
	And then there's the Anunnaki card, if you want to pull that forward, which says that there are Anunnaki that are operational here on the planet at this time and that they are still in control.
	I hear your point.
	It may be their reign that's being challenged and not President Obama.
	I'll take the point, obviously, that there are entities beyond that.
	but the author Amen.
	Well, I take your point with everything that you've just said about powers behind the throne, so to speak, but I would still maintain that within the office of the U.S. presidency there are still legal powers that this individual has that would enable him to make a difference.
	Officially speaking, in our world, the office of the President has substantial power.
	The fact is, we all know that it's been mitigated by all kinds of other factors around it.
	That doesn't mean that such power can't be reclaimed.
	And this is the thing that I would like to see in an after-disclosure world.
	I'm not saying it's going to happen.
	The last person who tried to do that might have been Kennedy.
	I think so.
	I think we could all agree that John F. Kennedy was taken out for that reason, that he was a real problem to those people.
	But it doesn't mean that a future leader won't have a moment of courage and a moment of insight and make a decision to say, let's do this the right way, let's do this for the betterment of the human species.
	Why should we ever rule that out, especially if there's a large global movement among the people to do that?
	I think what we're not talking about here is the White Hats, because I think what would facilitate such a move on the part of a president or even a small group within our military-industrial complex, if you will, there are White Hats.
	Absolutely.
	I am in touch with some of these people at this time, and they are very concerned.
	To keep the United States operational, which is something that, from what the information we have, is that the Rothschild faction would love to see taken down such that it would fall under the purview of their overlook and basically become part of the New World Order as a one-world government, right?
	So you can't have the United States, with all its power, sort of sitting out here like a You know, on its own, running things or attempting to still run things around the world when, in fact, it needs to be part of a team, right?
	Well, I think, to a large extent, the U.S. has been brought in to that.
	But the White Hats do indicate that they still have something worth fighting for.
	Yeah, sure, sure.
	So I'm just saying that that's the group that would support What you're saying.
	Yeah, I think so.
	Because he's not going to do it by himself.
	He's got to have somebody behind him.
	The fact is, as I see it, and maybe I think as you guys also see it, is that there's two sides to this battle.
	There's many sides to this battle, but there are...
	It's not all...
	The power isn't always all on the other side of the fence.
	Those of us fighting for the right fight here have some resources, too, and we have to remember that.
	You know, being hopeless is certainly not a good state of mind, and it's also not accurate.
	This is what we say every time we talk to Jordan Maxwell, who, bless his socks, has had a tough time.
	And every now and then he says, you know what, it's all hopeless.
	And we say, no, it's not all hopeless, otherwise you wouldn't be able to be talking like this.
	Look, I mean, the human species has gone through a lot of ups and downs, a lot of downs.
	We've had all kinds of crises throughout our history.
	Famine, debts, injustice, crashing down of empires, barbarian invasions, and all of this.
	And we've somehow managed to keep going.
	I think that we're not going to go winking out after disclosure.
	We're going to continue to live.
	And if it even takes centuries for us to regroup, we'll do it.
	I don't think we're just going to go away.
	We're going to be very different in the future.
	We're probably going to be unrecognizable to how we are now in the future.
	Just as we today are unrecognizable to, say, the era of Thomas Jefferson.
	Could you imagine?
	And I think the difference will even be greater in the future.
	So what we are, you mentioned us as a bridge, Carrie.
	We're a bridge in this world between the elites and the general public, but we're also a bridge to the future.
	Yes.
	Where we are right now.
	We're at a point between the old humanity, the old civilization, and something that's coming ahead.
	And one of the important things that that world of the future is going to have is an open knowledge That there are other intelligences working this world, for good or for ill.
	And we're going to have to deal with that in some way.
	And the subsequent generations are going to grow up with that realization.
	And I guarantee you, they're going to look at this problem very differently, I'm sure, than how we're looking at it right now.
	Do you feel that your personal role is to facilitate and optimize that transition, that inevitable process?
	Is that what you do?
	Well, yeah, I've wondered about this.
	I think that's a nice way to put it.
	More simply put, I think that my role is simply to learn and communicate.
	As responsibly as I can.
	I learn what I can learn.
	I try to provide as rational a voice on this process as I'm able to do, for better or for worse.
	But you're being more than just an academic historian, aren't you?
	I ceased being an academician many years ago.
	I carry that training with me, but I'm an independent scholar.
	I guess is probably the best way to look at it.
	And, yeah, look, I agree.
	I think that what I would like to be in my heart of hearts is someone who can really help and make this a better world, not a worse world, and to transition us to as good a place as we can be in the future.
	One of the team of midwives of the births of a new world.
	I like the way that sounds, yeah.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	I think there's a team of us, if you will.
	I think there's also the potential for the positive view, as you're talking about it, of the future.
	That involves this revolution in consciousness that is happening around the planet.
	And I think that in spite of how it's being used and how it will continue to be used, this wave that's hitting the Middle East and various countries, that having traveled there, having even been there recently and been in communication with the locals, I can tell you that on the ground, This is really where the hearts and minds of people is around the world.
	This is not just a CIA-motivated coup type thing going on.
	This is real.
	And it's as real in the streets of Egypt as it is in Jordan and so on.
	And we travel constantly as you do often.
	And I have to say that that's for sure.
	Now, at the same time, there will be an effort to twist some of these things.
	Just as there has been with the WikiLeaks, for example, saying, you know, he's on the payroll of this one or that one.
	Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
	But the information comes out.
	Exactly.
	Bottom line, the truth is coming out, slowly but surely.
	And that's really the wave that we're all behind, in my view.
	And I want to say that at some point, and it may be happening now, I'm beginning to think that the Call them the power elite, call them, you know, whoever they are, are beginning to turn to us to begin to be the, sort of, not only the bridge, but also the communicators between them and the masses.
	I mean, the us all.
	Yeah, but what I mean is that us in the sense of, I don't mean us camel, I mean us in terms, yes, in terms of the ones that have been willing to go out on their limb Early on, being at the avant-garde, being at the forefront of some of the changes and the willingness to entertain that, at the same time, we can actually provide...
	I think that there's a dialogue that can start to happen, if you will.
	Well, there's another way to look at this, because speaking totally for myself, I can tell you no one ever encouraged me to go to take this path that I've taken.
	This is something I've done on my own.
	I've never gotten encouragement from the Rockefeller or Rothschild clique.
	It just hasn't happened.
	It's possible to say that they've suffered this existence and they've allowed me to do it.
	Okay.
	But what I think is actually happening, and this gets me back to a point you mentioned Bob Dean earlier, and I love and respect Bob, I think, the world of him.
	But it's a very commonly held opinion that Bob shares, and I'm not sure I agree with, which is that this elite is promoting a kind of openness to this reality through popular culture and popular media.
	I'm not discounting it, but what I actually see is this change is coming from the bottom up.
	And that those people who are involved in media are increasingly seeing that this is what people are interested in and they're responding to that.
	That's what I think is actually happening.
	And again, let's take a look at WikiLeaks as a phenomenon.
	WikiLeaks is possible because of the age of the Internet.
	In the same way, these radical changes we're seeing, almost every single thing that we're seeing, honestly, in my view, is because of the existence of the Internet.
	What we've experienced in the way of our ability to communicate It's exponentially greater than anything possible before 1990.
	And that is what is driving this change in consciousness.
	Suddenly we're all able to talk to each other around the world.
	And that's driving the change.
	And the guys at the top...
	I think have been struggling in a way to maintain control over this situation.
	I think they continue to try to do so.
	Some of them may have decided that for people like ourselves who are trying to get the proper word out, they may be thinking, Yeah, it's possible that we let them do their thing because ultimately it's necessary.
	But I can tell you from my part, I've never gotten any active encouragement or money for anything like that.
	No, I actually wasn't suggesting that.
	But I understand where you're coming from.
	We've actually had our lives threatened.
	So anything but encouragement, at least from our point of view.
	But what I'm saying here is that I think...
	What I sense is the tide is going to turn in that regard.
	And also, what has happened with the media, for example with Spielberg and so on, there is evidence that these people have been approached by people in power to steer their message, to encourage them along certain lines Where they wanted it to go.
	And I'm talking major mainstream media.
	They're not encouraging us.
	In Spielberg's case, I mean, I've wondered about this, and my question would simply be, what's this man's message?
	If you look at the movies and projects he's done, he's all over the map.
	He's had E.T., the extraterrestrial.
	He's had Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
	Happy, positive E.T. message.
	He's had Taken.
	Nasty.
	He's had war of the worlds.
	That's even nastier.
	So if there's a message that this guy is supposed to be putting out, what is that message?
	Other than to say that there's ETs here.
	Big deal.
	But that may be part of it.
	I mean, you know that...
	Isn't it possible though...
	Something positive with something negative.
	It's basically how they manage the messages.
	Isn't it just as possible, though, Kerry, isn't it just as possible that Spielberg is a guy who's genuinely interested in this topic and is exploring different facets of it, as any intelligent person might do over the course of 30 years?
	I'm not saying he's got no relationships here, but...
	You know, when you look at Hollywood, let's look at something going back in history, like the Robertson panel of 1953, and this is a CIA panel, and it was very, very clear among those guys that they were going to work with Hollywood, among other agencies, to guide public opinion on UFOs.
	But to what purpose?
	To debunk and discredit it.
	That's what they were going to do, to disable this whole topic.
	And there is evidence that the Robertson panel was in effect through the 50s and 60s, very possibly beyond.
	So what the suggestion that you might be saying now is that that's changed in order to get a different message out, which is to acculturate the public in the reality of E.T. I guess it's possible.
	But I'm not seeing a lot of hard evidence for it.
	Okay, well, I think the hard evidence is everywhere.
	I mean, I think every movie you see, and I'm sort of a rabid sci-fi fan, so I see it everywhere.
	Yeah, but isn't it just as likely the possibility that they're responding to obvious public interest in this topic?
	But it's both, don't you see?
	It's both.
	In other words, the people have...
	It's both, from the top down and from the bottom.
	It's the same thing that's happening in Egypt with the revolution.
	You know, the place was like a tinderbox.
	People wanted freedom.
	Right.
	That's there.
	That's real.
	It's the same thing with the understanding of these people that are writing screenplays, that are making movies.
	They have a passion for the subject.
	Absolutely.
	It's a real passion.
	But you can't discount the fact that the powers that be...
	Mind control is a huge portion of what's going on now.
	Yeah, with regard to the powers that they have.
	Well, yeah, actually, I mean, I shouldn't really be arguing this strongly, because I do agree that, you know, if you have the annual Bilderberg meetings, obviously one of the things they're going to want to do is to ask, how do we manage public opinion here and there and there and there?
	And so they're going to have thoughts about doing this.
	They're going to steer it.
	They'll want to.
	How good they are at steering is another matter.
	And I would submit that the Internet has allowed them not to steer it, With the control that they wish to have.
	Absolutely.
	In other words, I agree with you completely there.
	I think the internet has allowed them to surveil us completely.
	Right.
	But at the same time, it's given us incredible power because we are, as you say, able to talk to one another across the world.
	Absolutely.
	And get information everywhere.
	Exactly.
	And the power behind information, and in essence, truth, when it is contained in information...
	It's like a spark that goes out and spreads around the globe.
	And basically becomes a fire in the hearts of the people.
	To get poetic about it.
	I love that phrase, yeah.
	So what I would say is, yes, I think the future is wide open.
	I think the powers that be, regardless of their ET connections even, are completely aware that they are losing their grip as we speak.
	And it's like a cauldron that's beginning to boil over.
	And I think that they're grasping at straws to try to pull it back in.
	But I don't think they're ever going to be able to do that.
	And that's what we're banking on, because that's what we do.
	We're trying to wake people up.
	And it's just the act of waking up.
	That makes every human being able to connect with that whole world.
	Yes, and you just made me remember what I wanted to say, so thank you.
	And it's the whole concept of consciousness.
	And incidentally, when I spoke at Awake and Aware conference in 2009, I absolutely loved the title of that.
	And I've always appreciated at your tagline and your emails, Awaken the Dreamer.
	Because I also feel that most of us, to varying degrees, go through our lives kind of as sleepwalking our way through.
	And our ongoing struggle is to wake up, to become conscious of everything that's going on around us and inside us.
	When I look at the world around me, Not simply other researchers or interested parties in this topic who are much more awake than the typical person, but there's a lot of people who aren't awake.
	And I ask myself, what's going to get our whole species awake?
	Is it our mainstream media?
	No.
	Is it our political system?
	Not really.
	Is it our educational system?
	Doubt it.
	And so there's really no structures in place, really, that are going to get us there.
	But there's a couple of things that can do it.
	The shock Of learning that there are other beings interacting with us is going to spark six, seven billion people to sit and look and ask themselves a simple question.
	Have I been wasting my whole life?
	Because there's going to be evident, strongly obvious, that there are other beings operating at a different level of consciousness than we are.
	And people are going to realize, holy crap, I've got to get my...
	I've got the opportunity to rethink my whole worldview, my whole life.
	And that is an opportunity for humanity to really move to a much...
	a truly higher level of consciousness.
	To understand what it is we are in our place in the universe.
	And that can ultimately be the thing we absolutely need.
	Absolutely.
	I think that also...
	The possibility of free energy that opens up the fact that people will not be living from hands on a survival level, that will change everything.
	Because if you don't have to starve and you don't have to work eight hours a day to support yourself, to pay your bills, etc., etc., if there's another kind of organization of society that can happen, Then it's wide open.
	Exactly.
	The whole paradigm of previous human existence now becomes changed.
	You know, the reasons for just about every war that I can think of in human history has to do in some fundamental way with control over resources, over wealth coming from the earth.
	And if that really becomes moot in a situation of free, cheap, readily available energy, where goes war?
	I mean, this...
	Maybe this is pie in the sky, but I think in a lot of ways it could be that after a number of decades we might just find that the motivations that we had for warfare in the past really aren't there.
	Now, of course, in the meantime, we'll have the very practical issue of having global military bodies around the world.
	And what do you do with them?
	It's going to be an issue.
	Do you just stand them down or they become police forces involved in the global police state?
	Well, they're very powerful and effective...
	Sorry.
	They're very powerful and effective logistical machines for any given purpose.
	It doesn't have to be offensive.
	No, absolutely.
	Absolutely.
	So, again, it's a wide open game and I don't know any more than the next guy how it's all going to turn out.
	It could be a wonderful situation for humanity and the cosmos in general, or it could be something dark.
	But even if it's something very dark, I'm skeptical of saying that it will be dark forever.
	Nothing lasts forever.
	Change is something that always happens, and it seems to me that even if it's a thousand years, well...
	Then it's a thousand years, but something may change after that.
	I'm very much not inclined to think that even the worst outcome in the short term is necessarily going to hold forever.
	Here's a question to challenge you then.
	If you let go of the data that you've got, and I can only imagine the piles and gigabytes of data that you've collected in the last few years, what does your intuition tell you we have in front of us over the next few years?
	We've got a really nasty situation ahead of us, to be honest with you.
	I think that humanity right now is the most interesting event in this portion of the galaxy.
	We are about to truly wake up.
	We're truly about to jump into the world of these other entities.
	They won't be able to stop it.
	And so anyone who's anybody is here right now looking at us and investigating our world and very likely positioning themselves to get the best gain out of it.
	I'm not of the opinion that all of these other beings that can go across dimensions and stars are all necessarily spiritually evolved.
	And I think some of them are, actually, and I think some don't seem to be.
	So you've got a plethora of interests out there.
	And so what we're looking at is we're going to get a baptism by fire.
	In the next lifetime, us and the next several generations after us are going to have to deal with a lot of difficulty.
	We also have the possibility of some severe infrastructure interruptions, it seems to me.
	I was just reading about the airport in Tripoli right now, which is a sea of humanity with no sanitation and no food.
	And they're all just trying to get out of the country.
	Imagine that on a large scale if we have big problems in terms of mass panic, And difficulties associated with transitioning to new forms of energy and financial problems and collapses and wars that may break out in the short term.
	It could be really bad.
	But if you take the long view, I think that I'm optimistic about our civilization and our species to the extent that I think that we'll continue to exist and we'll thrive and we'll become something different, very different, and I'm hoping better than what we are even now.
	I think we're going to meet our multidimensional selves in the flesh and in other forms and fashions, and I think that ultimately that we're going to be better for it.
	And I think that this is the possibility that we're embracing.
	It's not just, you know, a nice phrase, but actually the reality starting to unfold like a sort of flower, if you will.
	Yeah, and another way to look at that, I agree with you, is that when you look back on your own life, and I look at my life, there's an irony involved.
	No one ever wants to fail.
	No one ever wants to have life kick them in the teeth.
	But the fact is, when you look over the difficulties of your life, you realize that those are the things that made you what you are.
	And conversely, it's all the people who have had everything handed to them that have no use for these people.
	They're the most shallow, weak, self-centered individuals, and when something bad comes their way, they fall apart.
	So really, the irony is you can't always get what you want, but sometimes you get what you need.
	And we need difficulties.
	We really do.
	And not to make it into some romanticized thing, but the fact is that It's only through overcoming challenges thrown our way that we actually become something better than what we were.
	Yes, as individuals and as a civilization.
	Yeah, I think so.
	Well, I think this is a great place to end, and I want to thank you, Rich Dolan.
	Okay, it was a pleasure.
	Yeah, absolutely.
	It really was.
	That was fun.
	A long time coming, and it's worth it.
	Loved it.
	Good.
	Thank you.

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