Knowledge Fight Interactive Search Tool

All Episodes

Previous Next

April 18, 2010 - Project Camelot

02:38:58

Project Camelot: Kerry Cassidy interviews Laura Knight-Jadczyk

Large

Audio Only |

Scroll

Time	Text
	There's a desert,
	past the legend, stretched out the room, waiting on me, stretched out the stem, did can I hear, no way to escape, no way to escape.
	So Laura, it is wonderful to be here at your French Chateau.
	I'm Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot.
	And we are here with Laura Knight-Yetschik.
	And she's got a huge body of work that I'm amazed by.
	You are intellectually very astute.
	You're an amazing researcher.
	You're also a wonderful channel, if you want to call yourself a channel.
	Kind of a loose...
	I avoid that term.
	Okay, fine.
	And I've studied your work, and I'm really impressed.
	We want to hear more about it.
	I want to introduce you to the world that doesn't know about you.
	I want them to learn what you're really about.
	And give your own introduction of yourself.
	Well, I guess it depends on the individual.
	Some people are very happy to be asked to talk about themselves.
	I don't really like to talk about myself that much because I've spent most of my life putting the attention on other people.
	And I guess that's why we live here as we do, rather privately.
	So that I can work.
	Because I work best when I'm not disturbed by, you know, unforeseen events or, you know, when my family is around me and happy, then I'm happy and I work well.
	So that's how I live with my family.
	So that I can concentrate on my work.
	So right away I didn't say anything about myself, did I? No, but you're doing very well anyway because you're giving us a little background to who you really are and what you're motivated by.
	What would be great is to hear a little bit about your intellectual history because you're an amazing writer and you're very clear.
	You're very clear in the way you think.
	That's what I've gathered from reading your work.
	And I think that that's a special skill.
	And so maybe you could talk about, just for the very basics, because some people out there are going to want to know, did you graduate from college?
	You know, that kind of thing.
	No, I didn't graduate from college.
	I had children instead.
	A fairly common story for many very bright, intelligent women who are brought up to take care of other people.
	They have children.
	They have families.
	We were taught that that's the most important thing for a woman.
	My generation was taught that.
	And when the family comes along, everything else gets put aside.
	It was rather difficult for me because I did have a very powerful curiosity.
	It's been described by other people as an epic curiosity.
	And I would say that if anything describes me, that's curiosity.
	I'm a walking question mark.
	I literally want to know everything.
	And I know it's impossible to know everything, but I want to grab everything I can as long as I'm alive.
	I did go to college.
	I was kind of a professional student for two or three years.
	But then, like I said, I had a baby and that was the end of my college career.
	But it wasn't the end of my intellectual pursuits because I had developed the habit as a very young child of reading approximately An entire book every day.
	And that really started after I had been in seventh grade when I was, what, 13 years old?
	Because we had a teacher who taught us to speed read, which was a very clever thing.
	He had a machine that he brought into class and taught everybody to speed read.
	And I thought, this is the greatest thing since sliced bread because I can read very, very fast.
	And I was blessed with a photographic memory so that I could Not only read, but I could remember everything I read.
	This was very handy at test time, because I could pull everything out of my memory for taking tests, so I was very good at taking tests, but I was really bad at doing homework, because for me homework was just drudgery.
	Why should I sit there and write down for somebody else to prove That I've, you know, done this busy work, it didn't interest me.
	I mean, I had read the book, I had the material in my head, I didn't see any point in belaboring it.
	I wanted to go to the next thing.
	So, I didn't turn in a lot of homework, but I made A's and all my tests, so that So,
	I continued this habit all through the time my children were little, and as I've written, at the point that I'd had my fourth child, and I was bedridden, so not only did I pursue my habit of reading as much as I possibly could, but I got into some other things because there was a lot of stress in my life.
	So I began practicing things like, you know, meditation and so on and so forth.
	And how old were you approximately during this time?
	When you started meditating, for example?
	When I started meditating, let's see, my fourth child was born in 1985, so that would be when I started meditating.
	And how did that go for you?
	Well, I had extraordinary results in a very short period of time, and that's a That's a whole other story because we've developed a breathing and meditation program based on the technique that I developed more or less on my own, just based on reading some material about meditation.
	And it was a combination of meditative techniques and hypnotherapeutic techniques because I had also trained as a hypnotherapist.
	When did you train as a hypnotherapist?
	When I was going to college, I was, what, 21 years old?
	Oh, really?
	So you'd already decided to go in that direction?
	Yeah, because, you know, I wanted to know everything.
	And one of the things I wanted to know was what goes on in the human mind.
	What makes people act the way they do?
	What makes people think the way they do?
	Why is it that people say that they love something and then they treat it so abominably?
	Why do people say I'm a good person and act so bad?
	And why do...
	You know, all of the contradictions of life because, you know, people say things, but then you see in reality that that's not exactly what really happens.
	And, of course, there's the religious impetus.
	I was brought up in a very religious family.
	We were Methodists when I was growing up.
	Well, we actually want to go there slightly.
	I know that you had sort of a time in which you were, I don't know if you want to call it, kidnapped or something of that nature, by a family member, I think, someone related to you?
	Yes, definitely.
	That seems to have sort of...
	That was kind of the, yeah, it was the trigger.
	I was two, two and a half, three years old, and my mother and father had been divorced when I was very young.
	Obviously, because they were divorced before I was two and a half or three.
	And my mother had remarried a man who was an ex-Navy man that she met in Orlando where she was living and working at the time where we were living there.
	And it varies after a whirlwind courtship, and I think it was because he danced so well.
	My mother was a dancer.
	And so he moved us to Jacksonville, and it was in Jacksonville that he started behaving rather erratically, to say the least, doing strange things like she would come home and find him huddled in a fetal position in the closet.
	He would put his hands over his head and saying that somebody was coming to get him or something was going on.
	He was extremely paranoid and my mother knew this wasn't normal behavior.
	And it got worse so there was a separation.
	And I, being a child, you know, in those days parents didn't really tell children what's going on.
	It's not like, you know, oh, you're not supposed to talk to your stepfather anymore.
	And, you know, actually, I liked him.
	You know, he was kind of fun.
	He was entertaining.
	I mean, he was good to me.
	So, he had been showing me pictures of cars in a magazine and asked me, you know, he said he wanted to get a new car, and if he was going to get a new car, what color car would he want?
	And I said, yellow and black.
	And so several weeks later, and this was after he was gone, he drives up to the house in a yellow and black convertible.
	And do you all want to go for a ride?
	And since nobody had told me I wasn't supposed to speak to him or go anywhere with him, of course I'll go.
	So I went for a ride.
	We went down a long drive through a lot of forest.
	Came to a road that turned off into the forest, drove down this long road, and at the end of this road there was a clearing, like a perfectly square, well-mown clearing, you know, grass.
	And in the center of the clearing was a small white clapboard house with a porch.
	It just looked like an ordinary, like a farmhouse even.
	Except that there was nothing anywhere around this.
	I mean, it was smack in the middle of this very large clearing that was very, you know, And there were two men in khaki-looking uniforms and a woman in a white dress that were standing on the porch.
	We drive up to the house and they said, well, we've been waiting for you and welcomed me to come inside the house and sat me down at the dining room table.
	I remember sitting at the dining room table and they were asking me questions.
	I don't remember the questions.
	And then one of them said, you must be very tired.
	You know, you need to take a nap.
	And I agreed.
	And they took me into this room.
	There was a stainless steel baby bed.
	And they put me in this stainless steel baby bed and gave me a bottle.
	And I'm thinking, I'm two and a half, three years old.
	You know, I didn't think that, but I'm thinking, I'm too big for a bottle.
	But they gave me this bottle and said, here, no, it's okay.
	You can have this.
	And so I started to drink this bottle because I wasn't hungry.
	That's the last thing I remember, until I was in the...
	I remember sitting in a car with my stepfather, and we were driving very fast through a lot of flashing lights, it was like in the city, and we were being chased by the police.
	And he was trying to weave around to avoid capture and going very fast and turning corners and so forth, and he ended up, because Apparently there was another one that was coming around from the front and so he drove up on somebody's lawn and crashed into a palm tree and I hit my face on the dashboard and I remember the policeman coming and taking me out of the car and then I remember the policeman handing me over to my mother and that's basically what I remembered for most
	of my life.
	Everything from the time I drank that bottle until I came to myself in this car was a complete blank.
	And when did you start to recover those memories?
	Well, the first problem with something like that is, you know, we're talking about the memory of a two-and-a-half, three-year-old child.
	Is the child remembering, you know, I understood this, am I remembering anything accurately?
	So, of course, I had to question my mother about it, and she gave some details of what had happened.
	Though it is known from the outside, Is that as soon as she had discovered that I was missing, she called my grandmother in Tampa.
	We were in Jacksonville.
	She called my grandmother in Tampa.
	My grandmother called my grandfather who was in Nassau.
	In fact, I don't think he was in Nassau.
	He was on an out island working on an engineering job.
	And they sent a plane to pick him up from the out island to Nassau.
	Flew from Nassau to Tampa, got in his car, drove to Jacksonville, so at least two full days, possibly three, had passed before he went to the police station with my mother because my mother had gone to the police station and they had told her that because she was married to this man and he was my legal stepfather that she couldn't file any kind of kidnapping charge against him because, you know, he was entitled to take me where he wanted to take me.
	So when my grandfather got in there, he apparently was a little more forceful than my mother, and they began to take it seriously, which is why when they spotted my stepfather driving down the road with me in the car, they began to pursue.
	So that's kind of the back story.
	Do you know how many days went by?
	Well, my mother, when I finally questioned him, she didn't really remember, she just said it was several days, And as I just said, I figure it must have been two or three, because at the time that, it could have been three or four, because at the time it took for the information to get to my grandfather, for him to get there.
	Were they wealthy?
	I mean, you know, you're saying he flew from here to there and some sort of work.
	My grandparents were, you know, like middle-class people.
	He was a marine engineer.
	He designed and Supervised the building of ships.
	Before that he'd done bridges and dredges and so forth.
	Was your father employed at that time?
	That I can't tell you.
	I don't know.
	I don't know.
	Did you ever see him in uniform?
	No, but that was a peculiar thing because after this event, according to my mother, they went to The police stationed to sign papers to press charges.
	And when they got there, they found that he had been taken into custody, that the Navy Department had showed up to take him into custody because he belonged to them.
	And later on, it was suggested that he work for O&I. And I, of course, read a great deal about the kinds of experiments that they were doing on people.
	Did you have brothers and sisters?
	I have one brother.
	Okay, and he wasn't kidnapped?
	No.
	Interesting.
	And what is your, you know, if you don't mind my asking, are you, do you have a, are you Celtic?
	Well, I suppose.
	Well, the reason, you know, there's a basis for that, because I don't know if you're familiar with Duncan O'Finian, the super soldier that we interviewed, but his background is Celtic and Native American, and they were looking for...
	He was basically picked up as a child.
	His father worked for the CIA. And so what they seem to have done, especially back in the 50s, was to target the children of...
	People that were related to military and special services.
	Well, I can tell you a little.
	I mean, my genealogy is up on the internet, on my website.
	I got into genealogy at one point pretty obsessively, you know, nine or ten hours a day for a year.
	And finally my husband said to me, you know, when are you going to be satisfied when you get back to Adam?
	And then I realized he'd be giving me way too much time.
	But I'm descended from the Perses of, you know, Henry Hart's Hotspur fame.
	That's an interesting family.
	That's also their...
	That's an Illuminati name, though, isn't it?
	I don't think so because the Percy family that now carries the name is not even in a blood relation to the original Percy.
	The Percy spent a lot of time in opposition to the royal family of England.
	and quite a few ancestors ended their days in cages hanging from the outside of the castle walls.
	Their castle, which of course no longer wants of them, there's a family called Percy that's there, you know, the Duke of Northumberland, is the castle that they filmed Harry Potter films in, by the way.
	But you're saying that's not your family?
	No, the people who are currently carrying the name aren't even Percy.
	Interesting.
	They took the name.
	So their real name is… Actually, their name was Smithson, and they are directly related to the individual who went to America and created the Smithsonian Institution.
	And also, there's another branch of the family, I hate to admit this, but I've got to tell you, that another branch of the family are the Pierces that gave birth to Barbara Pierce and Mary George Bush.
	Very distant relationship, very distant.
	No, it's all in the human family, right?
	They spelled their name with a P-I-E. My Perses, when they came to America, they spelled it P-E-A-R-C-E. So there was an immediate split, like in 1600, that's how long ago it was.
	So don't go pee off with those people.
	No, I hear you.
	But to get back to the story, so when did your memories, I mean, of this incident in which...
	You know, we don't know what happened exactly, I don't know, at least you're not telling me at the moment, but did you find out what exactly happened to you during those four days in some kind of regression therapy?
	Well, this is something that really bothered me, because like I said, I have a pretty photographic memory and I can remember all the way back to being an infant in a high chair being fed.
	Those are some of my earliest memories, not even being able to handle a spoon myself, but being conscious, fully conscious of myself, And the people around me in the room and having memories of what's going on.
	So having a period of my life that was just like, you know, that began rather dramatically and ended rather dramatically, of which I have absolutely no memory, was something that really bothered me.
	So, I mean, I worried with it for years, and of course, A lot of my work in hypnotherapy was helping people recover memories, but the unfortunate thing is that I'm not hypnotizable.
	Oh, really?
	Yeah.
	And did you find that out early?
	When I trained in hypnotherapy.
	You know, because you have the teacher and you work on each other, you practice on each other, the teacher works on you and practices on you, and I'm really not hypnotizable.
	So...
	Even trying to deliberately go into a self-hypnotic state, when I'm not concerned about somebody else giving up control of somebody else, even that doesn't work.
	Because there's this conscious watching part of my mind, this analytical thing that never, never turns off.
	So, it worried me.
	And I thought about a lot of the years.
	And it became even more of a worry because after Tom French did his article about me and the St. Peter's, Pete Times back in 2000, was it 2000?
	Yeah, he'd spent five years practically living in our house because he thought that what I did was interesting.
	And, you know, we talked about this and he was curious about it and that kind of reawakened it And, you know, like, what happened?
	What happened?
	And he interviewed members of the family and confirmed, you know, my memory.
	But we never, nobody ever really knew what happened.
	So it started to worry me, you know, in the sense of nagging in my mind.
	And I asked my husband to go with me to a highly recommended hypnotherapist.
	I was going to try again.
	And I thought, if I can just try, and my husband's there in the room with me, and I can really, really relax, you know, maybe, maybe I can get there and I can do it.
	So we went and we tried, it didn't work.
	This woman tried everything, every trick, and she was good.
	She really was good.
	But, you know, I'm sitting there, the whole time I'm analyzing her technique, you know?
	I would have drawn that out just a little longer.
	I would have phrased that slightly differently.
	Ooh, good touch, yes, like that.
	I'll remember how to use that.
	You know, that sort of thing.
	But then what I started doing, I started doing pre-sleep work, which was I would start to really think about it every night before I go to sleep, really get intense, and think about it, and go through everything I could remember right up to that moment, and then what I could remember and just slice by slice.
	And my husband and I were talking about a lot of things and I was going through a lot of emotional releases on many things because I was using my own breathing program, the breathing meditation program.
	And what year is this?
	This was in 1997-98.
	So, what happened was I started having very vivid dreams that I thought were Related to this and one night I actually had a dream where I had gone to sleep thinking about everything right up to the point where we arrived at this house and went inside and got the bottle and the dream continued on with what happened.
	And it was like so intense and so real that I woke up sobbing, you know, just sobbing uncontrollably.
	And my husband, you know, what's going on?
	And I said, I remembered, I remembered, I remembered.
	And I was really, I'm really convinced that I did remember.
	But this is one of those things where you have no empirical evidence.
	You're still depending on...
	A very fallible human mind.
	The human mind, you know, I know as well or better than anyone how fallible it is, how impressionable it can be.
	So I can tell you what I remembered in this dream, but I cannot tell you that it's a fact.
	And I cannot even tell you that I believe it.
	And this is where, you know, you'll find me a little bit different than most people.
	Because I don't believe anything.
	I assign probabilities.
	And probabilities can change, you know, with the addition of the information.
	But I would give it greater than 50%, maybe going up towards 65 or 70% probability of being probably what happened.
	Okay, and do you want to share?
	Well, it was...
	It's something that I'm sure that other people have talked about these things where you...
	I remember being in a room and it seems to me that they were using some kind of drugs like LSD to experiment on me, to put me in an altered state to then try to program me.
	And the programming was designed to make me repressed, shy, withdrawn, What would you say?
	Somebody who doesn't like to make friends, or can't make friends, or is afraid to make friends, or is afraid to speak to other people.
	And this is at the age of like two, three, two or three.
	Yeah, incredible.
	I mean, the fact that you start so early is fascinating.
	So, but this is where you actually had that, I mean, I think you should describe, because we talked earlier about You know, the actual vision that you saw and the repeated, because that is a programming technique, I believe.
	Well, it started out that first I was in a room, just a bare room, with a wooden floor, sitting on the floor.
	I'd been given some little toys to play with.
	I don't even think I was a blanket or anything.
	I think it was totally bare.
	And I was sitting there and somebody came in and gave me something and then they said, you just wait here and we'll be back.
	And so I'm sitting there just, you know, looking around at the room.
	And as I was looking around, all of a sudden the walls started melting.
	And I understand that this is a fairly common effect of hallucinogenic substances.
	And the next thing was, I remember being taken into what was like a class Introduced me to a teacher and the children, and everybody was very friendly and smiling and like a very happy, you know, new kid at school, totally accepted by everyone.
	You know, here's your seat, everybody friendly, all the children, you know, saying all these nice things.
	Sitting down in this, in my desk, and the little girl next to me says, can we be best friends, you know, which is what any little kid wants to hear.
	And of course to me it was very, It was like wonderful because my dream at that age was to go to school.
	Here I am in a real school.
	You know, there's other children and they like me and they accept me and so I sit down and this little girl passes me a note and the next thing that happens is all these soldiers come exploding into the room with guns firing and everybody gets blown to bits.
	I mean, you know, just really horrible.
	Bodies bouncing and flopping around and brains coming out and blood and bits of bone and gore and everything and it splattering all over me and that I'm the only one left standing.
	And it's like screaming and crying and screaming and crying.
	So then the next scene is me walking in like a park setting And there's this old man with like a dog or something, and he's sitting on a park bench, and he's got some cookies or some art cake or something.
	And he invites me to sit down and offers me some, and he's talking to me very quickly, telling me a story or something.
	And then he gives me like a piece of paper or something, and the instant he gives it to me, all of a sudden the soldiers reappear.
	And I'm blowing him to bits, blowing the dog to bits, you know, blowing, you know, maybe people in the park, it seems like, you know, there was like, Vague images of other people in the park, you know, blowing everybody to bits, blood and gore and bits of bone and so forth, and I'm not standing.
	I mean, I'm not standing.
	And then the third one that I, the third one was we were like standing in lines, and I was in line with a lot of people and it was, you know, it had kind of like this feeling of concentration camp sort of thing.
	These lines.
	And it was like we were standing in line to do something or go somewhere or something bad was supposed to happen.
	And I knew we had to escape.
	I knew I had to escape.
	And there was this little girl.
	It's like the same little girl that was in the classroom.
	And she was in the line next to me.
	And she recognized me.
	And I saw that she recognized me.
	And I knew that she better not say anything to me.
	Because if she does, the soldiers will come and I'll blow everybody away again.
	So I kept my head down and I was talking to her like out of the side of my mouth.
	Don't look at me.
	Don't say anything to me.
	You know, don't act like you know me.
	Please don't recognize me because if you act like you even know me, they'll kill all of us.
	And she just looked at me and smiled and handed me a piece of paper that was supposed to be like a note on it.
	And this is the instant she did that.
	A couple of soldiers again blowing everybody away.
	And I'm the only one left standing.
	So you have these three consecutive dreams in the same night?
	Yeah.
	Oh, it was all one dream.
	I see.
	And at that point, was that when you woke up?
	That's when I woke up screaming and crying.
	Incredible.
	So that, at this point, I mean, I understand you have now extrapolated from that dream, or the series of dreams, that, in essence, you were being programmed, in a sense, to be reclusive, Not to share that if somebody gives you information or gives you something that you're going to be, they're going to die.
	Not so much that they give me information, but if they attempt to engage me in a friendly way and ask for it, because it was like they were asking for help.
	They wanted something from me.
	They wanted my friendship.
	They wanted me to share with them.
	Something.
	And basically it was, yeah, last man standing.
	So you're recovering this memory, and this is actually not that long ago.
	I mean, it's, what, ten, maybe ten years ago?
	Yeah.
	And this has basically impacted your entire life.
	I'm sure it did.
	It was totally subconscious.
	I mean, how could something like that not impact your entire life?
	How could it not make you really, really paranoid in a sense?
	And slightly antisocial maybe?
	Antisocial, absolutely inclusive.
	So, if you have special gifts, I mean, did you, in other words, in your investigation of your own self, did you reach the conclusion that perhaps you had special gifts and that was the reason you were selected and that they wanted you to keep those secret or separate in some way?
	Was that a conclusion that you came to?
	Well, sure, because of the things that have happened other times in my life and the things that have happened subsequently, it's like...
	You know, what it did was it drove me to the necessity for being just plain, normal, vanilla, not standing out.
	Don't do anything that draws attention to yourself.
	Because if you do, people are going to get hurt.
	And that was probably the most profound thing that it did.
	So I spent many years trying to dissolve into a really normal, banal life.
	That's fascinating, yeah.
	So you kind of tried to camouflage yourself with a pretty normal life.
	At what point did your life stop becoming normal when I started meditating?
	That really was, and you know, as I said, that came about because after I had my fourth child, I was bedridden.
	And when you have a really active mind like mine, and you're under this kind of stress, you know, you need to relieve that stress and the frustration.
	Of course, you know, trying to live a normal life was extremely stressful and frustrating.
	So everything kind of like came to a head.
	And here I was, bedridden, and I decided to...
	Learn how to meditate.
	And I combined some clever hypnotherapy techniques with some standard meditation techniques, as I understood them, and started having really extraordinary experiences very, very fast.
	I mean, you could say that I had your typical shamanic initiatory experiences.
	And are you familiar with Kundalini?
	Do you feel that you awakened your Kundalini?
	Well, I know what people talk about Kundalini.
	I don't know if Kundalini is exactly what happened, but what I had was a powerful cleansing experience.
	And certainly the way some people describe their Kundalini experiences, But I don't know that that's necessary.
	I mean, that's once again one of those things where, where's the empirical evidence?
	I don't believe anything.
	I had a powerful, powerful experience and it had extraordinary physiological symptoms and it had extraordinary psychological effects, you know, freeing, you know, liberating.
	I went through this whole period Experiencing psychokinesis to such an extent that I actually got afraid to go places because I was afraid something was going to break in my presence.
	Windows, electronic objects, glasses, pictures.
	Sometimes I only had to look at something.
	And in fact, that still happens now if I tend to not listen to myself and take care of myself or take care of things or if there's something out there that's threatening, you know, things break.
	And in fact, I'd like to show you the most recent object.
	I'm going to send somebody to go and get it.
	That's a good idea.
	You'll have a look at one of my most recent psychokinetic experiences.
	Okay, so you access...
	I graduated from what?
	Special powers in yourself as a result of this meditation and moving into that place.
	But at what point did you also get...
	Let's see.
	At what point did you get into...
	The contact with the C's, as you call them, the Cassiopeians.
	Well, I think that actually began at that time, 1985, because what I was doing was, I was doing this, you know, I mean, when you're laid up in bed, sometimes you meditate twice, three times a day, just to keep your stress level down.
	And, you know, the thing is, I went at it just for stress relief.
	I mean, that was what I was after.
	So you weren't seeking enlightenment, per se?
	No.
	I mean, the technique I designed was designed for stress relief.
	I had no idea it was going to do what it did.
	So at that point, when you say you think you contacted the Siege then, I mean, in other words, because I understand that you work with a Ouija board, and there's a group, actually, that you And I want you to describe all of that, but how did you get to that point, if you started with the meditation?
	Well, what happened was that when I wasn't meditating during this period, I was reading.
	And I had subscribed to a library by mail service, and I would read these books, you know, because this is where the whole religion thing came in, because I decided, okay, this is time to read about those things.
	that are in my mind that I'm curious about because I'm curious about this issue of good and evil and the end of the world and the whole eschatological ideas because I always had dreams when I was young about the end of the world and these were recurrent dreams or what I perceived or understood or explained to myself as the end of the world whether it was the actual end of the world I don't know,
	but they were some pretty troubling and repetitive things.
	So you saw, I'm assuming, cataclysms of some kind?
	Oh, yeah.
	Did you have water, tsunamis, that sort of thing?
	Cataclysms, smoke, fire, scorched earth, cracked earth, dinosaur-type creatures striding around, reptilian-looking creatures, serpents slithering everywhere.
	I mean, it was some pretty creepy stuff for a A young kid who'd never been exposed to today's form of, you know, horror flicks to be seen in their dreams.
	I mean, I was never exposed to a movie, a book, a photograph, an image of any kind that would ever, you know, put that kind of thought in my mind at that age.
	Just, you know, this was, I was growing up in the fifties, come on, that stuff wasn't available.
	So, um, so those things that, you know, back when I was, like, 21, 22, I remember Having some more of these dreams, and I told one of my girlfriends, we're driving down the road, I said, you know, things are going to get very, very bad on this planet.
	I have a feeling things, by the time I'm 50 years old, things are going to be very, very bad.
	You know, I just feel this, there's something inside me that says, well, you know, you kind of brush that stuff off.
	It's just stuff that you think or say when you're young, impressionable.
	So you're, so fast forward, you're meditating, you think you're having some contact with the seas, but how does that manifest?
	Well, I was reading these books and I was reading, what happened was I read Emanuel Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision.
	Because I'd read an article about eschatological scenarios and it mentioned Valkovsky.
	And I said, oh, I've got to get this book.
	Well, you know, finding his book was a little hard, but I actually went to the library in town at some point and found a copy of it selling off their books that they were taking off the shelves for 25 cents.
	But anyway, I got a copy of it, and I read it, and I was reading this stuff, and it opened the whole new view of the Bible to me.
	Because as I said, I was raised in a very religious family, and I had read the Bible completely through, cover to cover, several times.
	And this was like a whole different way of looking at the Bible than the faith-based way.
	Although, actually, Velikovsky was writing from kind of a faith-based perspective.
	Well, not a Christian one.
	His belief was that the Exodus really happened, so he was interpreting these things as the events of the Exodus.
	But I think that they were much older stories that were later conflated with still other stories to create an Exodus story because the Exodus as described in the Bible never happened.
	Anyway, so I would be sitting there and I would say, and I would read of something that he had written and I would stop and I'd look up and I'd think to And as soon as I would say this in my own head, in my own head, all of this information would begin to, like, flow.
	And it would be like, like my own thoughts.
	Like, yes, I don't think this is possible.
	Consider this.
	And it absolutely could be just rearranging, reorganizing all the material that was in my brain for years and years and years of reading a book a day.
	That was just being sorted and reorganized in my brain and spit back in response to my question.
	You know, the brain is like a computer.
	Who knows what it can do?
	It's amazing.
	Absolutely.
	But was there information that also you hadn't maybe studied, new information that came in?
	Yes, and there were ways of putting things together that were totally unique.
	And the funny thing about it was, was that I would start to write this down, and here's where it got really weird.
	Because I would start to write things down, and I would write things that I didn't know what was coming.
	I would have asked this question in my mind, like, is it possible for the sun to do this?
	Here they're describing the temperature and the corona, the temperature at the surface of the sun, the temperature of the interior of the sun.
	Something is wrong with the way these numbers are adding up.
	What is the reason for this?
	And I'll start writing things.
	And they were like, I never heard of them before.
	And I didn't know, because when you're talking or when you're writing, you're writing a letter, Dear so-and-so, I'm writing to inform you that I'll be coming to visit you on Tuesday next week.
	You've got in your mind what you're going to put in this letter.
	And you know what you're going to say, it's just a question of putting it together.
	I mean, that's different from writing when you don't know what's coming, which is kind of a unique thing.
	And then I would say, well, I have to go and take care of the children, or I have to go cook dinner or something, or I have to go do this or that, or whatever.
	So I would put it down, and it would like stop.
	But it would be like it was backing up in my head.
	And it would back up to the point where I felt it was like pressure.
	Like I was having a headache.
	You know, just like a headache.
	And I say, you know, I've got to go, because some parts of it would leak out, you know, like words, you know, like, wait a minute, you know.
	And it just seemed like I was just thinking.
	Okay, now I'm supposed to be, you know, cooking here, but I'm really thinking about, you know, the relationship between the, you know, the magnetism of this planet to that planet and, you know, the solar radiation and gravity and Planetary distances and blah, blah, blah.
	What do you think would happen if that happened?
	You know, I was thinking about these things and they would like leak out of my head.
	So at some point you would go and have to...
	So I had to stop and go write it down.
	And I have boxes full of this material.
	Fascinating.
	So...
	So how did you make the transition then from doing that?
	The problem was, was I... Didn't trust it as channeling.
	Okay, so that's amazing.
	You see, this is my most recent event.
	I can't believe it.
	This is a cast iron skillet.
	It was one of my favorites, born to my great-grandmother.
	And it wasn't even hot when I looked at it.
	I had just, you know, it was there.
	And I was...
	Were you upset at the moment?
	Well, there were a lot of things going on and there were a lot of things that I needed to get a handle on.
	You know, the universe and the subconscious mind is marvelously metaphorical.
	So this is a message to myself.
	Which is what most psychokinetic activity is, by the way.
	It's people sending messages to themselves.
	I mean, even a lot of polkergeist-type activity, you know, but that's a whole other topic.
	Yeah, I've studied all that sort of thing.
	Well, did it scare you when this happened?
	No.
	There had to be a loud noise, right?
	Yeah, no, everybody else was in the room, too.
	Oh, really?
	Oh, yeah.
	I mean, you were there, weren't you?
	Nobody heard about it right after.
	I was in the office.
	Oh.
	Well, yeah, there was four or five people in the kitchen when it happened, and we're all just standing there.
	Uh-huh.
	And then I turned around and I said, alright, who's pissing me off?
	Incredible.
	Well, okay.
	Have you ever hurt yourself?
	No.
	And what about hurting other people?
	No.
	I send messages to myself.
	And usually it's pretty clear what the message is.
	One of my favorite ones was...
	I have a bust of Edward VII that my grandparents acquired prior to the coronation that never happened, because he abdicated to marry Wallace Simpson.
	They had acquired this as a souvenir, and it was something that I acquired when my grandparents died.
	But anyhow, so I got this bust of Edward VII. And he's sitting up on top of a bookcase and my youngest daughter came in, I was reading a book, and I was reading about Templars.
	And she came in with a piece of gold foil paper and said, Mommy, can you cut me out a crown to wear?
	And I said, Sure.
	I put my book down and I got the scissors and I sat there and I cut her out a crown and taped it so she could wear this crown on her head.
	And as soon as I handed it to her, all of a sudden, Edward VII came tumbling off the shelf, broke into pieces, dented my end table, and then I turned the page, and after all of this was cleaned up, I was very upset about it, because there was no ostensible reason for Edward to come tumbling off the shelf.
	But then, I turned the page, and in the book that I was reading, Reciting the old nursery rhyme about Jack and Jill went up the hill, and how this had come about as it had described some royal battles or something.
	Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a pail of water.
	Jack fell down and broke his crown.
	And here I had just made a crown.
	Edward VII, who never was crowned, It fell off the shelf, and I turned the page and read about Jack breaking his crown.
	So, I never figured out what the message of that one was, but that was one of those really weird things that just happens to me.
	Well, are you familiar with your prior lives?
	Most of them, yeah.
	Okay.
	And do you think that you were king at any point?
	No.
	You don't?
	No.
	No, I don't think it would have anything to do with that.
	I wouldn't want to be a king.
	No, but in my immediate past life, I was just a German housewife in Nazi Germany, married to a Jew, and the Nazis came and took my husband and my children, and I committed suicide.
	So, I did fall down and break my crown.
	So, at this point, we are at this point where you are putting two and two together.
	Meditated, you've got contact, in essence, with the seas, although you don't actually know it's the seas.
	Well, you have to understand that during these meditative experiences, or during meditation, I would tend to, you know, some people call it samadhi, when you're just kind of like gone, when you're just gone for extended periods of time.
	So I guess if that's what you want to call it, that's what was happening, and I would be gone for extended periods of time.
	And, you know, what was going on inside my head was not something that was foreign or different.
	It was essentially myself in the future.
	It was just, you know, a wider scope of consciousness.
	So when people talk about the seeds, you know, it always entertains me because they're saying, you know, Oh, I'm in touch with the seeds and I'm thinking to myself, well, I didn't remember talking to you lately.
	Because it's basically as they've said and as it has proven to be through the years, it's just a really highly expanded state of consciousness that expands into the future and the past.
	And laterally, I suppose.
	Because if you're members of a soul group, certainly there would be other individuals on the planet who might be part of the sea's soul group.
	So, it's not like a singular thing, but I would say that it's not all-inclusive of all of humanity either.
	And that makes sense.
	But it never was an intrusive thing.
	It never felt like anything other than the action of my own brain working through a problem.
	And in fact, there have been many times when I was, like in school, when I would be working, like for example, on mathematics.
	And when you work very hard on a math problem, how you feel this pressure right here, you've got stuff going on in this forward part of your brain, and that's in a sense how it felt.
	It felt like my brain was applying something like sheer brute thinking power on problems, sorting it out.
	That's how it felt.
	Maybe that's what it is.
	So at that point though, I'm just kind of putting myself back where you were at that point because you went from that place to actually using a Ouija board and I'd like you to describe that.
	Well there was a lot of water over the dam and under the bridge between then and then because 1985 there was a good seven more years of I was studying and researching a lot of things before I began the experiment that led to that other form of communication with the seas.
	There was a lot of experimentation in many things.
	Hypnotherapy, I was doing exorcisms, a lot of studying, a lot of research.
	Trying to find out what was...
	And of course I became kind of obsessed with the material that had come through my own head.
	And I wrote it down, I wrote this manuscript that I called the Noah Syndrome, because everything kind of focused on the idea that's formulated in my brain of quantum metamorphosis on a macrocosmic scale.
	Because it seemed to me that this was the central idea of the eschatological thesis.
	And I began to research to see if this was actually something that was possible.
	And I did a lot of studying and reading in quantum physics, and certainly not as a professional in any respect, and following up all the trails and all the clues that I had put together in this manuscript to see If any of it was even remotely possible,
	because the scenario that presented itself in these thoughts, shall we call them, that I was having, was pretty horrendous.
	Which was that, yes, the planet does transform, but a transformation of the planet is essentially To us, at our level, a cataclysmic event.
	Because if you say, if an atom goes through a quantum leap transformation or acquires electrons or loses electrons or whatever, changes from one state to another or maybe from one element to another by the acquisition or the losing of some particle or some part of it.
	At that level, it's got to be cataclysmic For that atom.
	And if you think of the solar system as a giant atom, and I know that's frowned on by certain mainstream scientific thinking, but I still think that it's a useful metaphor.
	But if you're thinking about a solar system going through a quantum transformation to become something else, alchemically speaking, it's going to be cataclysmic.
	It can't be otherwise.
	And cataclysm on that level does not bode well for humanity.
	And I began to think that this is what these dreams, these things that I had seen, is that they were pointing to this cataclysmic transformation.
	So, of course, if you're thinking about a cataclysmic transformation of your world, the first thing you're going to think about is, oh my god, you know?
	I mean, where's Noah in the ark when you need him?
	And that concept of Noah and his Ark captured my attention because all of these stories of former cataclysms that you can possibly relate to, transformations in the state of the world, such as the fall from Eden, other cataclysmic transformations, they were probably...
	Other transformations were undoubtedly cataclysmic and if you read the science, study the geology, the archaeology, the paleontology, you realize that these cataclysms have occurred repeatedly on this planet.
	And we don't know with each one of these cataclysms what life was like for the beings that occupied the planet.
	For example, A solar system that exists in a different cosmic ray environment could be very different.
	From the solar system or the earth or reality as we experience it now.
	Okay, let me ask you this though.
	At this point, because we're kind of following a chronology here, and you're going through an experience, your mind is opening up to all these aspects and you're thinking about them, and obviously you're now encountering, like you're putting two together and you're getting the notion of a cataclysm and something coming on in the future of the world.
	You're looking at, I don't know, are you concentrating on 2012 at all?
	Well, I wasn't, at this point, you know, come on, this is 1985, 86, I mean, you know, was anybody really talking about 2012 then?
	I mean, maybe a few French people, you know, but it wasn't like, you know, anybody was talking about it.
	Okay.
	So, what I was concerned with was the concept of Noah and the Ark, because All of the stories talk about a fall from Eden, or a fall from a higher state, that humanity was once in a different state of existence, and that he fell.
	And this was undoubtedly basically a description of a cataclysm, a global cataclysm.
	Go get me a snack.
	Okay, but you...
	At that point, were you aware of ETs, for example?
	Absolutely not.
	Okay.
	But is this the...
	I was a good Christian girl.
	What do you think you're saying?
	Okay, that's fair.
	But what...
	Because how did you get your...
	I mean, you're also talking about this is when you started meditating, right?
	You're having all these experiences.
	You're going to make a transition.
	You're actually saying it took...
	Seven years to make a transition to using the board?
	From that?
	So you were already getting information for almost seven years, and did that continue?
	In other words, you were writing down and saying you had records, but you didn't trust it.
	Well, it's not that I... The problem was that I didn't really realize what I was doing.
	Because I thought that, okay, that's just happening in my head.
	I'm just thinking.
	I want to know more than what I can just think of.
	You didn't think you were channeling?
	No, of course not.
	Had you read channeling at that point or anything?
	At that point, no.
	I read Edgar Cayce, I think I read a lot about these kinds of things.
	Did you read the material, for example?
	Oh no, not until way later.
	It was probably somewhere along in the very late 80s, very early 90s, probably 89, 90, that I started really reading channel material, because I wanted to know if anybody else was thinking the same things that I was thinking, you know, about this macrocosmic quantum transformation, basically an alchemical event.
	But you're also married to I wasn't married to him then.
	Okay.
	So when did that happen?
	All of that came, well, he came after the seeds.
	But anyway.
	Oh, I see.
	And the funny thing was, as I was doing all of this, in a sense it was destroying my marriage.
	Because you can't be a good Christian girl.
	Already stretching being a good Christian girl by being involved in doing hypnotherapy and some of the other things that I was reading and studying about.
	I was really pushing the boundaries on that and I didn't talk about that in my Christian environment.
	When you start little by little divesting yourself of all of the things that Once held big places in your life, and the other partner doesn't want to go there, and you realize, I can't deny my brain, my mind, I can't deny my questions, I can't deny the fact that I must...
	And his solution was, if you want an answer, it's in the Bible.
	If it's not in the Bible, it's satanic.
	I couldn't live with that.
	And I tried to open his mind, but he was too afraid.
	But anyhow, so years went by and I continued to study and research, study and research, study and research.
	I mean, God, you have no idea the books I went through.
	You've seen my library.
	I've read nearly all of them.
	You've seen the ones that are stored upstairs.
	That's my current reading list.
	And then there's all the library books that I had to return.
	So it's a lot of material that I've gone through.
	So I didn't think I was channeling, no.
	Okay, so how did you make the leap to the board?
	Was that just one of your trials and errors?
	Well, I've really talked about that.
	These books are going to fall down here, but let me show you how to hang.
	In Amazing Grace, I go into extreme detail.
	This is no longer available, by the way.
	I'm going to try to put it back up on the internet so people can read it for free.
	But that would be great.
	I went into extreme detail of all the thinking that I went through when I selected the board.
	And I just want to say this for, you know, wackos out there that think that The Ouija board has some power to demonically possess you.
	The Ouija board has no power whatsoever.
	It is a tool.
	It is a tool.
	Purely and simply.
	If anything weird comes around or manifests in your life as a result of interacting with a board type instrument, it's because it's already there.
	It's just covert.
	All you have done with your board is flush it out and come face to face with it.
	And I would much rather come face to face with anything that's hanging around in my environment and be able to deal with it than to have it continuously, subtly, or constantly influencing me from behind the scenes.
	But that's been my experience and my observation with a lot of people who...
	I mean, come on, it's one of the finest instruments for psychic and spiritual development that was ever invented.
	I mean, what's his name?
	Pythagoras used it.
	The ancient Chinese used it.
	And we still speak of Pythagoras with tremendous respect for his mathematics, for his Pythagorean theorem and that sort of thing.
	And the guy was using something that was very similar to a device that you touch and it points out letters or numbers or whatever.
	The finest, the finest channeled material in existence either began with or came entirely through a board type instrument.
	The stuff that they call channeling nowadays where somebody sits down and puts a tin foil pyramid on their head and starts talking to the lord whoever in their spaceship, that's trash, it's garbage.
	Read the history.
	Read the proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research.
	Read some of the experiments they did.
	The whole research into real paranormal phenomena was completely sidetracked by the scientific establishment at the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century when these societies were trying to get real scientists working on this.
	They completely, they moved in and they destroyed it And what has come in to fill the gap?
	Quacks!
	Quacks in people who do not know the history, and do not know the instruments, and do not know what they're doing.
	It's like my husband with a physicist.
	Some hotshot physicist comes along, or mathematician, and says, oh, I had this great idea, blah, blah, blah, and he writes his paper.
	And then he publishes it, and he comes to find out that he was...
	Somebody thought of it 100 years ago, and there are 10 papers written on the same topic.
	He's not reading other people's work first.
	He thinks he's invented the wheel.
	There are all these people who think they've invented the wheel.
	There is tons of good channeled material out there.
	Excellent channeled material, but very little of it has been produced since 1915.
	Sorry.
	Well, I'm sure you've done your history in that area, and I'd love to find out what you consider to be the good channel material.
	For example, are you saying the raw material, do you consider that?
	Raw material is an exception.
	That was research.
	It was experimental research.
	It was undertaken under controlled circumstances.
	It was a group effort.
	It was not To somebody sitting down one day and having their free will violate...
	Oh, this is another one.
	This drives me nuts.
	People who say there's a difference between channeling and being a medium.
	The medium goes into a trance and her control comes in and lets you talk to the dead people.
	And then they're saying, okay, that's one thing.
	But that's different from channeling because when you channel a space alien, it just downloads it.
	I mean, tell me, downloads into you and speaks through you.
	Tell me how that is different from your control coming in and using your physical sensorium, using your mouth, your eyes, your whatever, to communicate.
	Okay, so, for example, can you name some of the channels out there in the past, or even current ones?
	Like, I think his name is Bashar, is that his name?
	I would rather not do that, if you don't mind.
	How about in the past?
	Would you go into the past?
	Alan Kardec, the Patient's Worth material, those are fantastic works.
	The raw material, certainly.
	The work of Jane Roberts, the secondary.
	She began with a board.
	It's a way to develop your own Internal communication.
	Yes.
	You know, and of course, even with the Seth material, Seth says, you know, I'm an alternate of yourself, you know?
	At this point, you actually started working with the board, I'm assuming.
	Did you work by yourself?
	Okay, I came up with the idea, first of all, that to think that, I mean, when you read the history of the paranormal, so to speak, You realize that some of these people who really did some fantastic work, I mean amazing work, that enormous stresses were put on their bodies.
	There is the whole gang of skeptic society that will They try to tear apart some of these wonderful cases.
	I think it's Deborah Bloom who wrote a wonderful book called The Ghost Planters.
	There's also another one out about Daniel Douglas Holm called The First Psychic.
	Highly recommended book.
	If you really want to know some truly extraordinary paranormal phenomena going on, read Conan Doyle's The history of the paranormal where he gives, I mean, extraordinary analysis of the Fox sisters and the introduction of the so-called channeling contact phenomenon.
	So it's clear that it put extraordinary stresses on these people, on their lives, psychologically.
	In some cases, on their physical bodies.
	I mean, some of the great mediums of the past were known to lose, you know, up to 15 pounds in a single sitting.
	I mean, that's a lot of weight to lose.
	And then there were these wonderful mediums that would produce ectoplasm.
	And skeptic society just Back off.
	I mean, I say I don't believe things, but let me tell you, the testimony, the photographs, the witnesses, I am 99% convinced all these things happened, and they happened as they were described by these really extraordinary witnesses, so just leave me alone.
	Don't talk to me.
	So there was fantastic work being done, fantastic material, and I wanted to study this before I did anything.
	I mean, I had read all of the stuff that was published as channeled material up to the point in the early 90s.
	And I thought, you know, this is like word salad.
	You know, I mean, I got kind of salad shooter channeling.
	You know?
	And I mean, it had no depth, no meaning.
	It was all platitudinous.
	It was like...
	You know, intonations of love and light and good.
	And I mean, we can clearly see that what these channels are saying, what these entities, whatever they are, has no practical application in our real lives.
	I mean, sure, some people say, oh, you just have to love and you just have to come and you have to do this.
	I mean, come on, just give me a break.
	So I was reading the history, I wanted to know what other people, and I saw that there were people who had done fantastic things.
	Because, you know, if you want to channel and you say, I am Lord High Puba of the Intergalactic Command, and I'm going to tell you all this stuff, and you'd say all this wonderful stuff, fine.
	Who can prove or disprove it?
	The work that was being done by these experimenters in those days, they were seeking to validate what they were doing.
	They were doing what was called cross-correspondence experiment, where they were having experiments that were taking places on two sides of the Atlantic.
	And this was at a time when there was no communication, there was no instant communication.
	So sometimes it took weeks for the results of the timed experiments To be brought together to know that everything had happened in a certain way.
	And some of it was amazing stuff.
	They were actually working on something that was worthwhile.
	What good are you doing anybody if you're just challenged?
	I mean, I just love the ones that are saying, oh well, there was supposed to be an asteroid to hit the planet, but thanks to the kind offices of the, you know, The Lord High Council of the Galactic Federation or whatever, we diverted the asteroid from the planet and saved Earth.
	Okay, first of all, nobody knew anything about said asteroid, except that they predicted it, so you have only their word.
	And then, since it didn't happen, you know, you only have their word that they diverted it.
	I mean, we're talking about...
	It's like, you know, Jehovah the Bible.
	You know, I am...
	The only God.
	You shall have no other God before me.
	And the reason that you're supposed to believe this is because I say so.
	Excuse me?
	Okay, so at this point, you want to work with the board.
	I had decided to work with the board at that point.
	I went through all the material and it was because of the historical material that I determined that the board is the way to begin.
	It is the way to really begin because there's a lot of work to be done to channel.
	You can't just sit down one day and talk.
	You can talk to dead dudes.
	Anybody can talk to dead dudes.
	But come on, it's like Casey said, a dead Presbyterian is just that.
	A dead Presbyterian.
	He's no better, no worse than any other.
	I don't want to talk to dead dudes.
	I talk to plenty of dead dudes.
	You know, I did a spirit release for years.
	I've never yet encountered anybody that I put under hypnosis who didn't have spirit attachments.
	Okay, so you had an incredible background and you actually sat down at the board with what?
	One other person or were there more than one?
	Well, usually there was one or two others.
	And I was changing them because I was experimenting to see, you know, I was trying to get the right energy mix.
	And I had one person who was...
	Actually, the reason he was there for most of the sessions, or nearly all of the sessions, because he simply was the only one who showed up that regularly.
	You know, other people came.
	People would get bored.
	They weren't getting what they wanted.
	They didn't immediately get their lottery numbers.
	They didn't get their predictions for the horse races or whatever.
	And I did a lot of experimenting with that to see What kind of possibilities there were.
	And then I found out that some of these people who were coming and using this, because I was doing it because I wanted to write these things down and then check.
	I wasn't playing these numbers.
	I was just checking any kind of...
	Prophecy is supposed to be part of channeling, right?
	It didn't occur to me that most prophecy is BS because Either it's being created by the one that's prophesying, they're making the prophecy come true to give themselves validation.
	Because the universe really is open.
	And then there are some things that the probabilities narrow as you get closer to the event.
	There are those things.
	But no, I had the idea that this is what I wanted to do.
	And I knew I needed somebody else to do it with me.
	And I wanted to find somebody whose energy was just right.
	And that's what we did.
	And we sat, and we went through loop after loop after loop after loop of...
	I mean, you talk to lots of dead dudes when you're using your Ouija board.
	I mean, believe me, you do.
	But for me, having the experience that I had with spirit release therapy, with exorcism, it was easy for me to use the board itself as a medium of exorcism.
	Because here, instead of having a person under hypnosis, You know, who you communicate with their attached entities, you know, through them, you know, you say to the person under hypnosis, okay, you've got your attached entity, would you ask them when they came?
	And then they ask them, you know, mentally, and then they hear the answer, and then they repeat it back to me.
	So you're getting things, you know, and you're having this conversation with somebody under hypnosis, okay, you've asked your attached entity what his name is.
	Well, his name is John.
	When did John come?
	1945.
	And they're having to stop and ask the entity, and of course you don't really know, I'm just telling you how the technique is done.
	You don't know if it's true or not, I just know the therapy really works.
	So here, with a board, you've eliminated having to use somebody under hypnosis as your medium for talking to this dead dude.
	And you can talk to dead dudes more or less directly.
	So assuming you did that, and you began to also get feedback, did you, for example, did you find that you were getting, I don't know, a lot of negativity using the board in the initial phases?
	No.
	We talked to a lot of dead, but I knew what to do with them.
	If you get some creepy little dead guy that comes along and says, Hi, I'm a dead hippie.
	Peace, love, good, you know, for us.
	And we had them, you know?
	And the other thing that you would have been on the lookout for, obviously, is platitudes, which, you know, these people...
	Platitudes.
	Alan, would you go get the board notes?
	I'd like to show these to Carrie.
	I've got board notes, because one thing, the whole stack, one of them is up in my office, but don't worry about it, it's just the same one.
	Right.
	We kept notes.
	This was in the nature of an experiment.
	I wanted to record every motion of that board, everything it said, and I did that for two solid years, sometimes twice a week.
	I'm assuming your hands are at least on one side of this.
	You're touching it.
	I was just wondering, and then you get another person to touch it.
	You have more than two people or only.
	Well, at least two, sometimes three or four.
	Okay.
	You know, there are many times...
	Well, for the longest time, we had three.
	Three was really good.
	It was a good number.
	At the time, because the third person kind of balanced out this other person that was there, who, you know...
	His energy was a little on the negative side, maybe.
	He was a fantastic psychic.
	Amazing psychic.
	This is something you found out subsequently.
	Yeah, this is something.
	But that's all recounted in my wave series.
	Well, that would be also fascinating for people.
	Usually we had at least two, three, and it changed.
	It changed from time to time.
	I am curious whether that, you know, because you spent years before you actually got to the board and you had material of your own that you, in many ways, were saying was coming from your own mind, but at the same time, you're saying that it contained information that wasn't like you were writing and you didn't have it in your mind prior to when you were writing.
	It wasn't in my conscious mind.
	Okay.
	So, when you got the board and when you, maybe, let's assume that at some point you contacted the seeds, Or even before then, did you ever see parallels in what you had gotten prior to that showing up?
	Only after the seas.
	Only after the seas.
	It was like, in a sense, it's kind of like creating or grooving a circuit that goes directly from my higher consciousness to my arm.
	In a sense, it's kind of like automatic, right?
	But it's also like tuning in a radio.
	It's tuning in a radio, yeah.
	This is what we have.
	Well, there's more, but this is just a sample of what I call my board notes.
	Okay.
	You know, every single movement.
	Okay.
	Yes.
	Did you record the sessions as well?
	We didn't record them until well after the C's.
	We didn't have recordings of some of the earlier C's sessions.
	Because the recording is expensive.
	We were trying to keep notes.
	Again, what year are we in?
	We're in 1992.
	1991, 92, 93.
	So you've been in contact with the sea since 93?
	Since 94.
	Wow, that's incredible.
	July 16th.
	Okay, and this is 2010, so that's a long time.
	And so you've been able to also validate a lot of what they did in the years.
	Oh Lord!
	I mean, come on, I read the historical channel material.
	I've read modern-day channel material.
	I have an entire bookcase in there that has nothing but modern-day channeled books from probably the last 15-20 years.
	And the C's are very spare.
	They are not verbose.
	Yes, I've noticed that.
	But they're, I mean, what they say is so loaded and so Is it being accurate?
	Sometimes they're spectacularly or apparently spectacularly wrong or off on something and then you find out later they were right.
	I mean, one of the things that really got me was we had one session one night and one of my girlfriends was present and we asked about something and they announced that there had been commentary bombardments over Europe during the time of the The origins of the King Arthur legends.
	And at this point, there was a group of people working on this.
	I think they were archaeologists or geologists or somebody.
	They were writing scientific papers on it, but they hadn't been published yet.
	It had not come to the attention of the general public.
	So the information was out there in the biosphere somewhere.
	But nobody else knew about it.
	And so for them to say it was not, they even gave the year.
	And then to find this in a scientific paper like four or five years later that finally got published, you know, was just like one of those amazing things.
	And then things about biology, you know, things about ancient history, and of course the biggest thing has been their predictions about what Our world was going to be like in the future.
	Now, remember this is back in 1994, pre-911?
	And they described what was coming, how it was going to play out.
	I mean, they didn't say, oh, there's going to be 9-11 on 9-11, this is how it's going to come.
	But they gave enough hints and enough, you know, part of the problem is we didn't ask the right questions, too.
	But they did, you know, in many cases voluntarily give Clues and hints to information that there was a government conspiracy that was underway that was going to change our world, and that it was going to be a huge, huge, huge, huge thing.
	And they even said that, big, big, big, big, big, you know, with multiple exclamation marks, they do their own punctuation.
	So, you know, their whole description of our reality Past things, things that we have been able to verify, things about ancient languages, things about DNA, and we try to research to verify.
	And I know most channels, oh, well, it's channels, you don't have to research it.
	I'm sorry.
	I'm going to research it and I'm going to try to validate it if I can because this is an experiment.
	This is not somebody talking to God here.
	Forget about that.
	There's also something that they do repeatedly, which is say, you know, that they won't answer a certain question because they won't interfere with free will.
	And there's certain indications that come through, and maybe you could talk a little bit about that, in terms of...
	The positive and the non-interfering level and non-controlling aspect of the channel itself.
	Yeah, this is something that's frustrating for some people because they want somebody to underwrite their experience on Earth.
	They want insurance that everything is just so.
	And the C's are basically saying, this is a school, and you're here to learn, and you can learn things by doing a little studying and having a study guide, you know, cliff notes, but there are many things you really have to experience.
	And then, of course, we all know.
	And I'm sure everybody's had the experience where, as a young person, somebody told you, oh, you'll understand that when you're older.
	And you were thinking at the time, I know, what are you talking about?
	I understand perfectly.
	And then a few years go by, you have some experience, and oh my god, that's what they meant, now I understand.
	How many things are like that in our lives where we can't really understand until we've had a certain experience?
	And when you've had the experience, you understand in a way that no amount of anybody telling you can make you understand.
	And then of course there's the old There's an old legend about a magic alligator skin or something that every time you made a wish, the skin got smaller and smaller.
	And getting your answers handed to you on a plate makes the skin get smaller and smaller.
	And the skin kind of like represents something of you, because whenever you don't do your own work, it's like being carried, it's like a child.
	You don't develop the muscles.
	You do not develop.
	You do not learn how to walk.
	You don't learn how to think.
	And the states have said, repeatedly, we are here to teach you to use your most valuable asset, your mind.
	And to use it well.
	And to use it in the way it was intended to be used.
	Not as something to run programs that are put into you by your family, your society, Your religion, your politics, or your belief system.
	We don't deal in beliefs.
	We're trying to learn how to use our minds without believing.
	Believing is a cheap thing to do with the human brain.
	The human brain is a marvelous instrument and it is at the disposal of this higher, essential being that you are, a mind that interfaces with our reality Through this brain, have some respect.
	Don't ask to have everything handed to you.
	Somebody asked me once, what is the most important thing I've learned from the thieves?
	And I thought, well, the most important thing I've learned is that I don't have to ask them everything anymore.
	I can think things through on my own.
	I can figure things out on my own.
	They have taught me how to think.
	They have deprogrammed me from my illusions.
	Some of that was very difficult.
	I had illusions, like everybody.
	I believe the whole, you know, love and light and just think nice thoughts and nothing bad will ever happen to you.
	Well, you know, the controllers of this world, the powers that be, you know, the hyper-dimensional denizens that have designs on your future and your energy would love for you to believe that.
	Just think nice thoughts.
	You know, I'm telling you, there's an old Indian story about that, about the Mahud and the Elephant.
	You know, the Master's telling his disciples, you know, everything is God, God is in everything.
	You know, it's all God, you know, just become one with everything and one with God.
	So they go out for a walk in the forest, you know, the Master and his disciples, and along comes an elephant handler, he's running and screaming madly, you know, there's a mad elephant on the rampage, mad elephant, get out of the way, get out of the way!
	You know, so the Master and most of the disciples, you know, they all run and climb trees and this one thinks, well, you know, the elephant won't harm me because all I have to do is remember that the elephant is one with God, I am one with God, you know, the elephant won't...
	So he stands there, you know, being one with God and the elephant tramples him, you know, so he's laying there smashed in the path and the Master comes to him and he says, you know, why didn't you get out of the way?
	And he says, I was being one with God and one with the elephant.
	And he says, well, the elephant handler, who was one with God, was telling you to get out of the way.
	Right, absolutely.
	So, God has many faces, not all of them pleasant to behold.
	Absolutely.
	Yeah, and that's very wise.
	So, what I would love is to find out, or actually have you talk about What the C's are talking about now and what they're saying about the future and what, if anything, they're saying about 2012.
	Well, the C's led us through a whole learning process where we learned a great deal about pathology and humanity.
	We had to actually go through certain experiences before some of the things that they said to us could even be taken on board.
	For example, one of the things that they say is that there are human-looking beings who do not have souls, as we understand them, as individuated souls.
	That they are basically animated by the equivalent of an animal soul that goes back into a soul pool.
	You know, when their body dies.
	And this, of course, really explains one of the problems that's plagued human beings for millennia, that there are people who are really convinced they have a soul and people who declare that it does not exist.
	Well, what if they're both right?
	You know, what if the people who really know that they have a soul and really believe in the existence of the soul Are those who have one.
	And those who simply cannot ever, under any circumstances, conceive of such a thing, or believe in such a thing, or see evidence for such a thing, or have experiences of consciousness that is not directly connected to a physical body, maybe they're telling the truth.
	And this is a really big conflict among human beings.
	There is a form of this aberration, you can't even call it an aberration, because if that's what is existing on the planet, if there are soul beings and non-soul beings, that's just what it is.
	But there is a defective version of the non-soul being, which is what we have come to know as the psychopath.
	Our definition of the psychopath is really Specific.
	It's a genetic thing.
	You're born that way.
	It's not something that you acquire or get.
	And it's also not something that necessarily anybody can see from outside behaviors.
	You may have to interact with an individual for a very long period of time before you come to realize that they have no conscience and that they simply will do everything they do You know, to further their own ends and that nobody and no thing else ever turns them from what they want to do.
	You know, their immediate gratification.
	And I'm sure everyone has had somebody like that in their life and in their experience.
	But the bad thing about it is, is that these kinds of people tend, because of their nature, to rise into positions of power also.
	Just as there are the ordinary garden variety sort that, you know, just live out their lives as parasites on other people.
	So that was the first thing that we had to learn about.
	Right.
	And those kinds of people actually tend to mirror behavior that they intuit or they realize that you want to see and then they mirror that back.
	And so, of course, those people rise up in through the ranks because if an authority figure gets yes all the time and gets what they want, the kind of behavior they want in the person Working for them, they are going to promote that person.
	It's not just a question of mirroring, because there are great mimics and mirrors, of course, but the bigger problem actually is the fact that psychopaths took over religion like thousands of years ago, and they began to structure religion so that it would create belief systems that would surface their agenda.
	It's our understanding that these soulless beings and psychopaths themselves are the instruments of hyper-dimensional beings, i.e.
	paranormal, i.e.
	alien.
	Now, if you've studied the works of John Keel, and I know his book, Operation Trojan Horse, is a little hard to get, but anybody who is interested in the subject of UFOs or aliens really, really needs to read this book, because aliens, so-called aliens, are not a new thing.
	They are not aliens from outer space, although I'm not excluding the possibility of extraterrestrials.
	But the UFO Alien phenomena, by and large, is a paranormal phenomenon.
	And if you understand that there are soulless beings in charge of the governments, in charge of religions, in charge of academia, in positions of power, judges, lawyers, doctors, psychologists, psychiatrists, school teachers, they have moved in and taken over these positions, That you would be living in a world that is pretty much focused on a materialist way of life.
	And even if you think about it, they use religion to create a belief in some resurrection of the dead at the end of time where all the saved people are going to be resurrected to have a physical body.
	So this actually is a materialist view of the world.
	Even if you say you're believing in God who's supposed to be a spirit, Or you're believing in, you know, Jesus or whoever.
	There's an apparent contradiction also in going to heaven, you know, even as certain forms of Muslims believe.
	In other words, that you're going to be...
	Yeah, and of course, you know, the Jewish religion believes that it's going to be an earthly kingdom, you know, with the Jewish Messiah ruling over the entire world on earth.
	So you've got just variations of the same materialistically created and propagated belief systems When you say, in terms of, you've got non-physical beings, hyper-dimensional beings, you're also talking about going cross-dimensional.
	So it can be termed outer space because space, going through space, and different planets.
	Oh, certainly!
	I mean, very early in our sessions with the Seeds, we were really...
	You know, taken with the idea of maybe communicating with some aliens.
	Everybody else was doing it.
	You know, we want to communicate with some aliens too, you know?
	So it's like, are you alien?
	We asked the question, are you alien?
	And they said, from your perspective.
	And, of course, people immediately jumped on that as saying, oh, they're aliens.
	And then later on when they came back and said, where are you in the future?
	Where are you in the future?
	Where are you in the future?
	You know, people couldn't forget that they had said, we are alien from your perspective.
	But that wasn't exactly what they said.
	But at the end, they also say that they were the aliens, right?
	And they're a different being in essence.
	If you read that particular passage and you understand that they're talking about that these are different information sources that may not necessarily have anything to do with an actual extraterrestrial being as in something or somebody from another planet.
	Although, other planets, other star systems, we don't know that what we see is exactly how things are.
	We have scientists and they have instruments and they have telescopes and they say, oh, this galaxy is umpteen zillion light years away.
	Well, maybe it is, maybe it isn't.
	Maybe that's just a matter of our perception.
	You know, just like time is a matter of our perception.
	Maybe it's really right next door But that dimensional differences are perceived by us as spatial differences.
	We may say, oh, it's billions of light years away, and it's really in another dimension.
	Exactly.
	It has the same premise with, for example, Venus appearing to be an inhabitable planet, when in reality it may actually be inhabited in a different dimension.
	And so we're looking at that through a telescope, seeing a certain dimension.
	That's entirely possible, because, you know, as anybody who's looked at the matter of knows, Venus is hotter than hell.
	I mean, if there is a hell, that's where it is.
	I mean, 900 degrees, acid rain falling 24 hours a day, and they don't have 24-hour days, but you know what I mean.
	I would say it could definitely be that our perception of it, from our state of being, you know, we perceive it as 900 degrees and hotter than hell, and maybe in another...
	Dimension, or density, and the seas make a distinction between dimensions and densities.
	Dimensions are lateral and infinite, and densities are vertical and only seven.
	And density refers as much to state of awareness, because obviously if you're in a higher density, you're more aware of the multiple dimensions on the density below you.
	Because we as human beings are extraordinarily aware of many creatures inhabiting the animal kingdom and the world around the natural world and so forth.
	So we're aware of many dimensions below us.
	And we'd have to say that these higher dimensional or higher density beings have the same perspective on us that we have.
	And that's kind of a scary thought, especially if you realize that they You may not have your best interest at heart, and just as the farmer has a lot of awareness in many dimensions of his herd of cows, he knows them very well because he knows which ones he's going to butcher to put in his freezer.
	Right.
	And this is where we get into, I mean, you obviously also got into the, what you call the lizzie's, but we're talking about dracos or reptilian beings, through you have had Well, I don't know that we've had interaction with them.
	We've certainly acquired some information.
	Because, you know, you read these things.
	I have people under hypnosis.
	They're telling me they're having interactions with reptilian beings.
	If you take them into a hypnotic aggression of an alien abduction experience, and they're telling me about getting raped by a reptoid.
	You know, I'm hearing these stories and I'm asking these questions and I'm going through all of this, you know, so I mean, I'm going to see the battle.
	And we did adopt very early on this term Lizzie's.
	I think that was from Barbara Marsaniak, which we thought was just such a handy term because it kind of diminished the terror.
	Because if you really think about it, it's really kind of a terrifying thing to think that there are creatures that apparently, according to the best information we've I've collected circumstantial, no proof, but I'm giving it high probability because of the volume of witness testimony that there are aliens and a lot of them eat human beings and they particularly prefer vegetarians who don't smoke.
	They're influencing the governments of the world to ban smoking and there's a strong Influence coming down the pike, and you're going to see it, to minimize and eliminate the eating of meat, even.
	Because, I mean, you saw this, the scares of mad cow disease, and then the bird flu, and the millions and millions of chickens that were destroyed, and the millions of cows that were destroyed.
	And now they're talking about cows contributing to global warming.
	Global warming, which by the way, is a crock because the seeds have been telling us since the 1990s that we're going into an ice age and that it's going to be really serious.
	But that's where we get to the topic that you're interested in, 2012.
	Well, 2012 is just an approximate marker.
	I think the number 2012 came from somebody's interpretation of a Mayan calendar, and there are various interpretations of the Mayan calendar.
	We don't know that that's necessarily the correct one.
	We also don't even know if it meshes correctly with our own calendar, because our own calendar has been changed more than once.
	But for general references, you know, it's kind of like an approximate date, you know, close enough for horseshoes.
	Well, okay, but you're basically getting information from the C's about not only, I mean, you were talking to the back of 94, you were getting information about now, okay, and you're also getting information.
	And it's happening.
	And you're seeing it happen, and then you're also getting information, in other words, going forward through, you know, whatever year, I don't know how far forward you're going.
	What year did they say things were really going to transition?
	What was year one?
	How many years forward is it?
	It was five years, about six months ago.
	Six months ago they said we have five years before year one of the new reality.
	And as you know, the way they put things, there's ways you can interpret that.
	Either that's the end, Or it's the beginning, or it's both.
	And what it means in terms of a beginning?
	Well, I think it's up to us to create it.
	And that's very significant, also.
	But at the same time, there is a sort of a playing out of the scenarios and the agendas, for example, that they talked about in terms of the Illuminati.
	And that that agenda now is being put into effect.
	Yeah, it's happening.
	It's happening.
	They've said that the frantic drive for control by these lizard beings or 40 Self-service individuals is going to become so oppressive that people are going to get to where they don't even want to leave their homes.
	And I think we're kind of already there, for the most part, except for the ones that are being evicted from their homes, because they don't have homes to live in anymore, which is another horrible part of it.
	That's their drive to control the money system.
	So they're driving to control every single aspect of our lives.
	And there's been the, at one point we asked about, was there going to be an alien invasion?
	Well, I'll tell you, just off the side here, who needs aliens when we've got psychopaths?
	But the psychopaths are being motivated by higher dimensional beings, and also Lizzie's and Gray's, right?
	Well, Gray's are cyber-genetic probes.
	They're not even real beings.
	They're like plant-like, living-like robots.
	They're like a cross between a plant and a critter, and they grow up like plants.
	And they send them because they can function in our reality much more easily than the overlords who have great difficulty making their vibrations match with our reality.
	And they've also been working on hybridization projects To hybridize beings that can cross densities, that can be by densities, that can move between densities, because they want to use these bodies themselves as incarnational opportunities when they, you know, in a sense, to use them as portals into our world, which they are doing and have been doing.
	Oh, they have been doing.
	You're saying you went through, like, the fact of beings, okay?
	But we didn't start with pathological beings.
	We started asking a lot about aliens.
	And we got a lot of answers.
	It's in this little book called Unrightest Strangeness, where I've collected together all of the material on the subject of aliens, UFOs, and that sort of thing.
	And I think that's a great summation of your work, by the way.
	Yeah, on that topic at least.
	Because there's so much more.
	I mean, because me and my passion for history, these transcripts are just full of historical questions.
	You know, I had to ask.
	But in any event, yeah, anytime we would read something or see a video or hear about some little bit of information, And this was back in the day when, you know, I sat down and read Val Valerian's Matrix books, one through four, you know, in a continuous sitting.
	It took a couple of weeks because they're pretty thick.
	But I read it from cover to cover, you know, without stopping until, you know, my eyes literally bled because I couldn't believe what I was reading.
	You know, I mean, oh my God, this is crazy stuff.
	But...
	And I even made mention of the Matrix books and having read them in the sessions because it was at that point in time.
	We had a lot of really unusual experiences, but then we got to the topic of pathology because the students kept trying to say, you know, there's more to this phenomenon than you're asking about.
	There's more going on than your simplistic questions are allowing us to give to you.
	And we had to really start expanding our thinking and expanding our possibilities.
	And we had experiences that led to the topics of pathology and human beings and how pathological human beings...
	And maybe pathology is even kind of a wrong word to use because if something is genetically born that way and it's born that way for a purpose, how can we say that it's pathological?
	It is what it is.
	Pathology implies that there's a sickness.
	Well, it's a sickness from the point of view of normal human beings, human beings who care about one another, that constitute the majority of humanity, or did, that's rapidly changing.
	Because apparently, according to the season, it seems to be happening before our eyes that they have been creating a ruthless race in which to...
	Incarnate themselves at the time of this upcoming macrocosmic quantum event so that they can rule over the rest of humanity, whatever remains, in the higher density state.
	In other words, they want to lock this planet into their evil garden spot for them to have control and domination.
	They think, of course, for all of eternity, that's their plan, that's their intention.
	And we would like to see that that doesn't happen.
	We'd like to see a future freedom for people.
	And Asifa said that also is possible.
	But the people can't do it until they can connect together in a certain way.
	And they cannot connect together in a way that can block that hyper-dimensional...
	In other words, what we want to do is we want to cut off their power supply.
	There are all these pathological people on our planet and they're getting fueled by Hyper-dimensional negative beings that are negative.
	You can't even plumb the depths of their negativity.
	You read about the most horrible crimes that have ever occurred committed by so-called humans on this planet, and you're getting a little bit of the picture of what their internal landscape is like.
	So, you know, pedophilia, you know, snuff films using children, I totally...
	Exactly.
	And we can allow people's imaginations too.
	So that's the kind of beings that they are trying to engineer.
	You know, I want you to really understand how horrible a world it would be if they succeeded.
	Because they would have the total freedom to do whatever they wanted with any normal human being who has a soul and who has a conscience and to make them suffer as much as they...
	Possibly can, in order to feed off that energy of suffering.
	Because that's what they do, they feed off of that energy of suffering.
	They're not psychopaths, they're psychophages.
	They are soul eaters.
	They eat souls.
	They are light eaters.
	They eat it.
	So the Caesar said that there is a way that we can cut off the power supply of these pathologicals that are taking over our planet.
	But it involves connecting ourselves together in a very specific way, and I can't give you all the exact details right now because I don't have the text in front of me.
	But it involves clearing out your emotional garbage, getting free of your programs, the manipulated programs that have been put into you since you were born, cultural programs, religious programs, political programs, and so on.
	But that if humanity...
	What they've done is they have divided us and conquered us this way.
	It's like men against women, straights against gays, blacks against whites, Hispanics against whites.
	All of these superficial differences that mean nothing, have nothing to do with the real essential core difference, which is the difference between an individual who has a soul and has compassion and empathy for other human beings and those that do not, that are We're calling them pathological, I explain that, but we'll use that for the sake of convenience.
	So, the real difference is whether there is a soul or there isn't a soul.
	And the story of how the blood got mixed is in our most ancient legends, that somewhere along the way there was a mutation, maybe it was a deliberate engineered being or a group of them were put on this planet to spread These psychopathic genes throughout the population.
	These individuals, I mean, any family can produce a psychopath.
	You know, some more than others because, you know, multiple strains come together.
	So it's not a question of black or white or, you know, any of those things.
	The question is, you know, soul or not soul.
	And even people, even the so-called organic portals, people who don't have souls, just because they aren't Individual souls doesn't mean that they're bad either.
	It's just that they are more susceptible to being used by the negative forces.
	Because they follow the leader.
	And who is the leader on our world?
	Psychopathic individuals in positions of power.
	So, we have a chance, we can...
	And the Seas have given us techniques, specific instructions.
	We have been putting them into practice.
	We have a breathing and meditation program that is specifically designed, as the Seas have said, That this program is even more ancient than anything you could ever learn from yoga.
	That it is the same techniques that were used by the Paleolithic peoples who built the megaliths, who put the megaliths together, the ones who did the cave paintings.
	These people had stable societies.
	There was no warfare on the planet.
	The archaeology does not show violence and warfare for 25,000 years.
	25,000 years!
	These people lived in basically what was an Edenic state.
	And then there was a cataclysm, a catastrophe, about 13,000 years ago.
	The megafauna all over North America and Europe was destroyed in a single instant.
	And another ice age was initiated, a temporary one.
	It was a shorter one than the long one we had just come out of.
	But this was the time, I believe, That the mutations that we now deal with, the psychopathic mutations, originated.
	And they began at that point.
	Okay, are you talking about before Atlantis or after?
	Well, I would say that probably that is what is remembered as the Atlantian Deluge.
	And I just finished reading a really marvelous book that collects the legends and myths from Eastern Europe and from Central Asia.
	And from even northern Europe and comparison one to another because, you know, most of us, all we know about is the Oriental or the Middle Eastern thing, you know, the Bible, you know, the Bible story.
	And the Bible story of the flood is a rather latecomer and it's been, you know, highly edited and modified.
	You know, there are some really ancient stories of this event and they come from other, I mean, from Native American, from Australian, the aborigines, you have stories from Pacific Islanders, you have South American stories.
	You know, there are a lot of stories that are much older and more authentic than what, you know, this highly edited, sanitized version that we get from the Bible, which has permeated our culture.
	We need to learn about this, because this happened.
	And there's a lot of scientific work on this, like Victor Kluve and Bill Napier and Right now, there's Richard Firestone, Alan West, and Simon Warwick-Smith, who wrote the book, The Cycle of Cosmic Catastrophes, about this event.
	There's a lot of science being done that validates everything that Cease has said about these events.
	And of course, these guys, they don't want to know that some so-called channel source, you know, me and the future, called the Cassie Piennes, talked about what they are proving scientifically.
	Right.
	That's an interesting question to think about, which is whether or not your husband...
	How do you say, Arkady?
	Is that how you say his name?
	Just call him Ark.
	Ark, okay.
	I found the Ark.
	I hear you.
	How Ark, I mean, he would deal with the science end of things.
	He's working on this.
	He's working on a lot of the things A lot of clues that the C's have given, mathematical clues about modeling dimensions and densities and gravity and those sorts of things.
	And he's making excellent progress.
	I don't want to talk about that too much, but he's making some really good progress with that.
	Science has been taken over by pathology too.
	There are many good scientists who are interested in these topics, who are interested in the paranormal, who are interested in what we're doing.
	And believe it or not, we get together with them and talk about the Cs.
	I get emails from people across the world who are doing real scientific research and they ask me, well, what do the Cs think about this?
	And I give them, of course, I would never bring their names out in public.
	I would not embarrass.
	I would not cause them problems with their institution.
	Come on, when Brian Josephson, a Nobel Prize winner, started talking about the paranormal, and so the rumors started immediately.
	Propagated like wildfire in the scientific community that he was having a nervous breakdown and he needed a long rest.
	This is what happens because in science they do not and cannot allow consciousness that exists outside the body to be demonstrated as a demonstrable fact.
	I don't say that we're ever going to prove it in any satisfactory material way, a non-material phenomenon.
	But we can demonstrate that that's the way it is.
	I mean, if you're sitting there on the side of the road, and people keep walking by you on the road, and they say around the bend there, they just crossed a bridge over a river, and you, for some reason, you can't get up and walk and go around the bend.
	But 500 people have passed by, and some of them even said, I stopped and got my feet wet.
	You see them with wet feet.
	Or I fell off the bridge into the river and they're soaking wet.
	And all these people are walking by you telling you about this river and this bridge.
	It's pretty convincing that that bridge actually exists and that river actually is there.
	And maybe you can even hear the rushing water.
	And maybe you can hear steamboats or people splashing in the water.
	You can't see it with your eyes.
	You haven't put your foot in it yourself.
	But it's convincing.
	That's how the paranormal is.
	That's how paranormal events are.
	Absolutely.
	And that's actually what we're doing here today.
	We are talking to a witness of these events, of this information.
	And actually that's our portal into the unknown, are the people.
	We're actually portals in essence bringing back information.
	About what cannot be seen in this reality, this 3D materialistic reality.
	And so we've got to move beyond it, and we've got to use the eyes that we have, you know, and the senses that we have, and we certainly have more than the traditional number of, what is it they say you have, five senses?
	I don't even know.
	I'm so used to so many more being part of my understanding.
	Part of the problem there is, is that paranormal phenomena are like macrocosmic quantum phenomena.
	In the quantum world, you can observe momentum or position.
	Never both at once.
	I mean, once you've observed momentum, you've changed position and vice versa.
	So, you know, the materialists...
	And I think that there should be some kind of testing process to determine if an individual has a soul or not before they're allowed to become a scientist.
	I'm sorry, but, you know, I think that people without a soul, who also don't have a conscience, You know, should not be in positions of authority in any sphere of activity.
	But they say, oh, you've got to prove, you know, you've got to be repeatable.
	Well, you know, how repeatable is it observing the same atom in the same momentum or position Over and over again in a laboratory.
	It's absolutely, utterly, you know, even theoretically impossible.
	Yet they want to impose that demand on paranormal phenomena, phenomena that are non-physical, that are basically macrocosmically quantum.
	So, you know, and Carl Sagan will extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.
	Well, come on, if this were...
	A murder trial in a court of law, there would have already been a hanging.
	I mean, hundreds of years ago.
	How did we go so wrong?
	Because pathologicals took over our government, took over our religion, took over our society, took over our education.
	You know, they completely removed spirit, consciousness, soul from the entire equation.
	You know, we live in a postmodernist, rational world where being human means to be a machine.
	Exactly.
	Absolutely.
	And even if I'm scientific and I want evidence, but I want evidence that gives me probabilities because I know, I understand my phenomena.
	And I have experienced it.
	And let me tell you a funny little story before we close here.
	There was a linguist who got in touch with me and he was interested in my book Secret History because I I get into some linguistics in there.
	And he picked it up at a Fortean Times, one of their conventions.
	And Fortean Times is another one of those things.
	It's really gone off the track because, you know, Charles Fort, I mean, he said, I think we're property.
	I mean, he got into Fortean phenomena because he knew it was evidence of some other reality.
	And now, the Fortean Times and the Fortean people spend all their time debunking I mean, they have article after article.
	I mean, they debunk UFOs, they debunk, you know, this, they debunk alien abductions, they debunk...
	You know, I mean, they spend all their time debunking.
	It's like they've got to find their...
	They've got to be approved and patted on the head by the scientific establishment in order to find, you know, find their reality, you know, that there's a reason for being.
	Especially materialistically.
	Oh, boy.
	He wrote to me because he'd found my book at this 14 times convention, or unconvention.
	And we had a few little exchanges, and he didn't like a certain book that I had cited as being, you know, a very interesting read, which is Where Troy Once Stood by our fellow name, Iman Wilkins.
	Great book.
	And I think that what he's proposing in there, while it may not be exact as to timing, and it may not be exact as to every single detail, But I think that what he's proposing is basically a very valid hypothesis, that Troy did not exist in the Mediterranean, that Troy existed in an area in England.
	And that all of these difficulties that scholars have had for years of trying to figure out, you know, what Homer was talking about with his wine-dark sea and these weird sailing directions and these weird places, You know, it was because all these things took place in a different place at a different time.
	And, you know, of course the archaeology does not bear out Troy in the Mediterranean.
	I mean, if there is a Troy, then it was certainly, you know, not as described by Homer.
	So, we were talking about Iman Wilkins' book, highly recommended if you can get a copy.
	Iman, you know, I know I don't get any kickbacks.
	But I... We went back and forth and I explained to him that the main thesis of the book is to talk about this underlying hyper-dimensional reality that is behind our history and how it extrudes itself into the historical timeline and how you can observe these long historical events and see the movement of that hyper-dimensional energy.
	Through, you know, the actions of human beings, through historical cycles, through the behavior of groups of people, through manipulations, things emerge, you know?
	And so he came back, well, he'd never experienced anything, and blah, blah, blah, and I was talking about something that, you know, couldn't prove.
	And I realized, you know, I could get into a whole long trade with this guy, and I could cite all of this stuff, but, you know, if you really want to be up, it's there.
	Go to the library.
	You know, look up in the card catalog.
	Read the books.
	You know, if you haven't read the books, don't talk to me.
	It's like the guy who was, you know, putting down Shelbright, who hadn't even read his book.
	You know, don't do it.
	So I said, I'm not going to get into this argument.
	I'm not going to engage.
	I'm not going to give this guy my energy.
	So I just wrote him back, and I told him what I said a while ago.
	You know, that I realized after a long period of observation that there were two kinds, two basic kinds of people on the planet.
	People who believed in souls and people who didn't.
	And I explained to him that, you know, we have all been programmed with this Judeo-Christian thing about all his souls.
	You know, all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, or whatever.
	And that it permeates everything.
	It permeates even science.
	A scientist cannot grow up in our society and do science without having it influenced by this Judeo-Christian worldview.
	It believes everything we think, do, and say.
	So I said this to him, and he wrote back, well, I'm into religion.
	And I wrote back, and I pointed out, because he talked to me about etymology, I said, just think about the fact that you were criticizing these etymologies, which is fine.
	And I said, where do you get your etymologies?
	Well, you know, Hebrew and Greek.
	I said, okay, and if you read the Bible and you understand where these etymologies come from, you understand that they made shit up, you know, to explain the origins of words, you know, according to the way they wanted it to be made up.
	I said, so you know, the whole foundation of your science is based on something that's made up and can't be trusted.
	So I said, so the whole problem is that there are two kinds of people.
	Those who have souls and who have the experiences that I have had, I cannot convey to you my experiences.
	If you haven't had them, you haven't had them.
	And there's no way that I can convey it to you.
	There's 10,000 people who can tell you that they have them.
	But if you don't have them and have never had them, you can't know what they're talking about.
	It's like somebody talking about the color blue and green and the differences to somebody who's blue-green colorblind.
	You don't have a soul.
	You don't see those colors.
	You'll never see it.
	You can't understand it.
	So there's these kinds of people.
	So I tell them, you're probably one of those who doesn't have.
	So for you, it's true.
	You have never had those experiences.
	You will never have those experiences.
	Many people have them, I've had them, many other people have had them.
	For us it's real, for you it isn't.
	Because there's two kinds of people, those who have souls and those who don't.
	Well, let me tell you what.
	This member of the Skeptic Society, this totally scientific, post-modernist, rationalist, linguist, who bought my book, no doubt, so that he could criticize it, wrote back and How dare I suggest that he didn't have a soul?
	The thing that he denied existed, he now wanted to have.
	Exactly.
	Isn't that amazing?
	Well, it actually makes sense.
	The trouble is with this, the pathological individuals, whatever you want to call it, the ones that are Basically, service to self and the ones that do not have souls.
	The ones that are service to self and don't have souls.
	Because there are service to self that do have souls.
	And are working through an evolution of going back to who they once were.
	But in essence, those beings are also claiming to have souls.
	Because they want to fit in.
	And so they are some of the most rabid, you know, fundamentalists and whatever, because they are actually almost mimicking what they think a soul, a being with a soul would be.
	So you get into a huge, you know, it is a hall of mirrors out there.
	And so discernment is absolutely, I mean, in other words, if you have a soul, it's not something that you can, again, how do you prove it?
	Can we prove it?
	It's like the river around the bend.
	You can hear intonations of it.
	You can see some bits of evidence that keep coming around and the people telling you the story.
	People have their feet wet or their clothes wet, you know?
	Yeah, and then they're all different.
	Because there are so many disguises that we're talking about, that beings and humans, so-called humans, wear, and so on.
	So we're talking about, some people think that because a person behaves in a certain way, that means they're a good person, and they have a soul.
	No, remember that...
	Actually, it's the ones...
	Evil insinuates itself by being...
	Appearing to be good.
	I mean, human beings have an intraspecies predator that mimics them and mimics...
	Think about the guy down in Australia that was found out for being a complete fraud, a complete psychopath.
	And for years he had been a philanthropist, and he had funded organizations that helped battered women, or helped children, or whatever, and it turns out that he was the biggest pedophile and woman batterer of them all.
	Because that is the essence of the psychopaths, a mass.
	They have a public life and a private life, and that's why we make the distinction between psychopaths and antisocial personalities.
	In a way, The psychopath is ultimately antisocial, but you will never see it on the outside.
	It is covert.
	It is hidden.
	They truly are wolves in sheep's clothing.
	Whereas that appears to be really disheartening information for people to get, I think it's among the most valuable things that you are doing.
	And that you're revealing to people.
	In other words, it is the fact that the dark side has a face, but it's a face that looks like light.
	And that, you know, if there's any single thing that I think that you're bringing to the table that is missed in especially, you know, the community, the New Age community, however you want to look at it, that's probably the biggest thing.
	Yeah, because how many people in the New Age community are psychopaths?
	Because it's wide open, it's unregulated.
	It's a place where people are looking for answers, they're looking for gurus, they're looking for somebody to lead them, they're looking for everything that the psychopath says, I can give that to you, I can give you...
	You know, just believe in me.
	Just, you know, do whatever.
	Pay me your money.
	Come to my sessions or whatever.
	And, you know, this is, in a sense, one of the reasons I've been so reclusive.
	You know?
	I mean, it's...
	I don't want to go down that path.
	And it's...
	So, absolutely.
	Well, you know, we're going to have to wind this up at some point here, but I do want to give you a chance to talk about, for example, one of the things you're doing here is smoking on camera.
	And I'd like you to talk about smoking and a little bit more about that, because you have a philosophy about that.
	It's more than a philosophy.
	I mean, the Native Americans used tobacco In a sacred sort of way.
	And the reason they did was because they knew that the use of tobacco helped them connect to their higher self, their inner self, the ancestors, if you want to call them that.
	But it helped them to tune in to what was really going on.
	But there's a reason for that?
	There's actually a chemical?
	There's actually because when you smoke tobacco, it mimics acetylcholine, which is the neurotransmitter that is produced by thinking.
	You know, by the act, really the act of thinking.
	It's also produced by other activities, but this is one of the main things it does.
	And it also stabilizes your parasympathetic nervous system, because when you stimulate the vagus nerve, which is one of the things that I teach in my breathing program, it also causes the body to produce acetylcholine, which puts you in a state of calm alertness.
	You know, it stabilizes you, it relieves you to stress.
	I mean, what is more natural for the powers that be to do than to deprive us of one of our most convenient and useful tools?
	I mean, it's like, they made a movie about the exorcist, they took Ouija boards away, because everybody's scared of that, and they made them terrible.
	I mean, it's always parallel.
	Yeah, it's fascinating.
	They terrified people of ever using a Weech board.
	Now everybody's going around saying, Oh, Weech boards.
	Oh, Weech boards.
	Oh my God.
	And it haunted.
	And I burned it because when I used it, there were all kinds of things happening.
	And then the same thing with tobacco.
	I mean, the campaign and the lies about tobacco.
	Now, let me say right up front that the chemicals that are put in to many cigarettes, if not most of them, You know, burning agents and so forth, that they put in to make them, you know, to flavor them or to make them burn longer, you know, some of the things in the papers.
	Those things are definitely evil.
	But let me tell you what, the worst thing you get from smoking a cigarette is a teeny tiny amount of cadmium.
	Yes, cadmium is a carcinogen, but you know what?
	You get more cadmium riding in your car to the supermarket, breathing the air outside, than you get from smoking cigarettes.
	And if you read the book, Detoxify or Die by Sherry Rogers, which is a great book, she's compiled a lot of great evidence, you'll notice that she does mention it, but she mentions in passing, in Poisson, that the amount of toxicity that you get from a cigarette is so small compared to what you're getting from your food,
	from the exudate, from your carpets, from your clothes, From using plastic cookware, from using Teflon, from the air, from the combustion engines on the road, from factories, you know, just about everything in your environment is totally deadly and poisonous, not to mention the ginger bender chemicals that are in plastics, the mercury that's in vaccinations.
	Also, we have to talk about the mind, you know, the role of the way people are thinking is also what creates disease, because that's what we're Chemistry, what you put in your body.
	And let's face it, we can't avoid, we cannot.
	We did not evolve in an environment that was as toxic as the one we live in.
	And the toxins that are out there, our systems cannot keep up with it.
	Everybody is a little bit different.
	Some people have better detox systems, the liver, the kidneys are your detox system.
	And some people have very sensitive ones.
	Did you know that there's, what is it, 40 million?
	40 million people in the United States suffer from autoimmune diseases that are caused by chemical toxicity, from clothing, paint, preservatives, pesticides.
	Household cleaners, whatever you clean anything.
	Look at my video on the topic, and you'll see that this is just an incredible problem.
	So, it's handy to have a scapegoat.
	Cigarettes are an scapegoat.
	If you're sick, it's because of cigarettes.
	Okay, well, most people stop smoking.
	Okay, it's secondhand smoke.
	Okay, it's thirdhand smoke.
	Pretty soon, you're going to get sick and die.
	From imaginary smoke.
	Now, I mean, it's going to be like terrorism.
	You know, we've got to go and kill those people because they might think about becoming terrorists at some point.
	So, the whole thing is, is that neurochemistry is a very delicately balanced thing and it can be balanced if you're in a situation where your fight-or-flight mechanism is turned on continuously, repeatedly because you're afraid People are so stressed.
	Depression is a killer.
	People are dying of depression.
	Look at the number of people in the United States that are on antidepressants.
	People that are going off and shooting and killing their families or their friends or whatever.
	This is a serious problem.
	And it's because people are not smoking.
	They don't have outlets.
	They don't have anything to help them balance this other toxicity.
	Because at least if you're in a toxic state, And you're toxified from having been outside.
	You went into a Walmart which is so loaded with chemicals you should drop dead upon walking in the door.
	And you get out of there and you light a cigarette and the cigarette gives you enough acetylcholine to stabilize your brain so that you don't fall over dead and you can get your detox system going.
	But they've deprived you of that.
	They've deprived people of nearly everything that could help them To stabilize or deal with the environment.
	And out of the depth, they're poisoning their food.
	Well, and then we're not even talking about chemtrails here.
	Don't even go there!
	I mean, we're talking about what's in the everyday food, the everyday water, The worst thing, the absolute worst thing, the microwave radiation from your cell.
	People are walking around with these things.
	There are oncologists who will not use cell phones because they know that they cause brain cancer.
	They won't let their children use them.
	But they won't make a statement against them publicly, because if they did, the medical establishment, which is owned and run by psychopaths, would destroy their careers.
	Sure.
	Yeah, it's an amazing thing.
	I mean, everywhere you look, you see the evidence of pathology and control, you see the evidence of Of normal human beings being beaten down, controlled, everything taken away from them.
	Now they're taking their homes away from them.
	You know, they're taking their money away from them.
	They've taken away your right to privacy.
	You've got to go and show yourself naked, you know, to get on an airplane.
	I mean, it is the lizard's drive for total control that is manifesting in these pathological people on our planet.
	And if you think aliens are the problem, Okay, yeah, maybe they are.
	But who needs aliens when we've got psychopaths to deal with?
	Okay, Laura.
	Any last minute sort of, you know, because we do need to wind this up, and it's been fabulous, and I really value and appreciate your insight, your willingness to have such an open mind, and your willingness to And I think that this is something that we need more of.
	Okay?
	And so that's why I've asked you to come forward today.
	But is there anything else that, you know, why don't you talk a little bit about, you know, what you're going to be packaging into DVDs for people and then give your websites.
	We're going to, we've already done, we've got this breathing program, but we've got people who are going to be teaching the breathing program because one of the techniques really is A little bit tricky, and even though I teach it on the video, and I go into it in several ways,
	approaching it so that you can get a complete picture of how to do this breathing program, it still really is good to have a teacher, and we're having the teachers come in here, and this is a breathing technique that I developed, and it's the one I used that took me very quickly into these Really amazing meditative experiences and really kind of run on the shamanic initiation.
	And the seeds were kind of the result of this breathing program.
	If you really go down, get back to it.
	So we've got that kind of packaged up.
	We're going to be making a version of it that we're going to try to distribute as cheaply as possible, if not free.
	If we can get enough financial support, we're going to distribute it to soldiers.
	Come on, let's face it, if people start getting in touch with their higher selves, if they start breathing properly and learning how to stimulate the vagus nerve and get acetylcholine in their bodies, if they start learning how to do some of these things, they're going to be able to become more understanding of one another, and they're going to be able to get together with one another, and they're going to be able to see things shamanically.
	That they could not see before.
	And they're going to be able to see where the real enemy is.
	You know?
	And discern truth.
	Discern truth.
	It is a program that definitely will bump up your discernment levels.
	I mean, rapidly.
	We've got people that have been doing it now since the summer.
	And some of them had almost immediate results.
	Some of them have taken a little longer.
	But every single one is having Gradual, incremental improvements in not only how they cope with their lives, but they're having these wonderful, these marvelous experiences with their own selves, with their own higher selves.
	And that's really a beautiful thing to see.
	What I would like to tap into here at the very end is talking about what we're looking at in the near future in terms of What's set before you, why you're doing what you're doing right now, because we're actually talking about a transition in which getting into that place of higher consciousness is so important.
	It is important because the C's have said that, yes, we're coming up on what they call the wave.
	They've been talking about the wave since 1994.
	Okay, so we've been talking about this and publishing this, and other people have picked up these terms, you know, whatever.
	But anyhow, we've been talking about it since 1994.
	And the thing is, is it is kind of like a macrocosmic quantum wave collapse, and the reality on the other side of this collapse is going to depend upon the state in which humanity is in.
	We need a large number, a huge number of people who are in The right state of being able to see.
	It's not where you are that matters when this happens.
	It's who you are and what you see.
	Who you are means, are you sold?
	And what you see means, can you really see the energy?
	And that's what this program is really designed to do.
	It's to take people to that state of being able to be in touch with their own higher self, their own me in the future.
	That's right.
	And we need a critical mass in order for us to make this transition in a positive way, in order for the earth and humanity.
	Right, because as I said before, their plan is to lock it into their little private evil garden where they rule over humanity and have their, you know, You know, as Bosch's garden earthly delights.
	Right, but part of the manifestation of this, of going into the wave, and this change that's going to happen, and this is one other part of your work, which is really important, which is this comet cluster that is part of that, coming, you know, we're entering this area, and it's coming towards us.
	As I said, a macrocosmic quantum wave collapse cannot happen other than cataclysmically.
	However, there are possibilities that we have toyed with that if there is a sufficient amount of conscious energy that supports it, there are possibilities that we have toyed with that if there is a sufficient amount of conscious energy that supports it, the possibility that the earth can
	Yes.
	So, I don't want to give false hope.
	I only know that after all this research, I know the science.
	The science says it's going to happen.
	That's the hard science.
	There's going to be the day, it's already happening, the magnetic field is degenerating, That means that magma is going to start welling up under the oceans.
	It's already happening because it's heating the oceans up.
	When the oceans start heating up, that means more evaporation.
	When that happens at the same time that the planet is being clouded by volcanic eruptions, which is cooling the atmosphere, you have precipitation that comes down as snow, and the geological record shows That the onset of every ice age was so sudden as to be unbelievable.
	In other words, next winter could be the winter when, you know, a lot of undersea volcanoes begin to erupt and dump magma into the oceans.
	A lot of evaporation takes place.
	If it happens in the winter time, if it happens in the winter time, that means that snow can fall in amounts that are beyond your wildest imagining.
	It's happening.
	It's geologically a fact.
	It's happened repeatedly.
	Can you imagine nine stories of snow in a single day?
	I mean, what if one day you're sitting there in your house and it starts to snow and you're thinking, oh, we're going to get snowed in and tomorrow we'll have to get the shovels out and we'll have to shovel the snow and you wake up the next day and you're under nine stories of snow that is compacted into solid ice and it never stops snowing and it never warms up again.
	Think about it.
	That can happen, and it can happen at any time.
	That's the science.
	I understand.
	But there's also a comet cluster headed this way.
	Yeah, and that can happen.
	The science shows that there was, in the past, a giant comet that broke up into pieces, and it terrorized people in the skies.
	These are the origins of religions.
	Read Victor Clube and Bill Napier, Cosmic Serpent, and Cosmic Winter and read Firestone.
	There's a lot of materials.
	But the Seas have also talked about it.
	They were talking about this in the very beginning before I ever came to these books to talk about this.
	Now, Clube and Napier had written about their cosmic serpents and so forth, but they had, you know, kind of in a different way.
	But those books were not available to me at the time that the Seas were talking about it.
	It's only as I continued to do research that I came upon the fact That there is an enormous amount of scientific validation of what they have insisted is what's going to happen.
	That there is a cluster of comets in our solar system that cycles around, and it's coming our way, and what it does...
	Yeah, this whole Nibiru Planet X business, that's all distraction, disinformation to distract you from the real science.
	And the real science is that these things, most of them, many of them, Can't be seen until they impact because they're like carbonaceous bodies that have had the ice burned off of them and they hit the atmosphere.
	Can you imagine having thousands of Tunguska-like events all over the planet?
	The earth is turning and these things are coming like this and they enter the atmosphere and explode.
	I mean, look at the Carolina Bays.
	There were bays in Tunguska that resemble the Carolina Bays.
	You know, they're from overhead explosions of this matter.
	And it causes elongated, shallow formation in the ground, you know, from a shockwave hitting the ground.
	Okay, how many of them are there in America, the Carolina base?
	There's hundreds of thousands of them!
	And that's the time of the extinction of the megafauna.
	And there are hundreds of thousands of Of dinosaur bones, or not dinosaur bones, but mastodon and mammoths and all these creatures.
	And mammoths, they were frozen, standing on their feet, solid, because they happened to be there.
	Because when this happened, it also caused many volcanic eruptions.
	And these volcanoes were heating the ocean.
	The water was evaporating as fast as it could evaporate, and then the clouding of the atmosphere and the explosions and everything were cooling everything down.
	And then there were these violent storms, very similar to this Day After Tomorrow, you know, or the ultimate storm.
	This was written about in a book years ago called The Mother of Storms.
	I mean, later on, Whitley Strieber and what's-his-face, they wrote a book about it, but they, you know, the whole idea that they were writing about was originally written about in this book Mother of Storms.
	So imagine these things happening.
	And this is basically the scenario that the seeds have painted, but they've said we can possibly do something.
	The science supports what they're saying.
	You know, that's the bad news.
	The bad news is that the science supports what the seeds have said.
	But we also are talking about actually the span of years when we're actually getting, we're arriving in it at this time.
	I know the seeds were talking about it back in, you know, even when you first were contacting them.
	But around 94.
	So here we are in 2010.
	So we're moving into this time.
	And then you're saying that the last time we talked to them, there was a five-year window between the change, so to speak.
	We have a five-year window.
	Because the Camelot witnesses, we have a lot of witnesses that are also substantiating this information.
	And so what's happening is we're moving into this event horizon, so to speak, in which we are going to approach...
	A time in which consciousness may be the only thing that saves us.
	This is true.
	And so that's why we're doing this interview.
	And that's really where push comes to shove.
	Because that's what...
	We want people to understand that it's not only that there are events happening, but that you need to prepare yourself in a certain way.
	And that's what you're working towards at this time.
	And that's what we're working towards.
	We have people that are going to be teaching this breathing program...
	The meditation is very, very specific.
	It's designed to activate, you know, for a person who doesn't have a soul, it's going to help them a lot because it's going to help them understand, it's going to awaken their thirst for knowledge, at least, and help them grow.
	You know, because people who don't, you know, they can grow to the point where eventually they transition to having a soul, eventually.
	You know, they can build on maybe.
	But for people who have the shamanic bloodline, and there are many shamans in the world today who have not been activated, this will activate the true shaman.
	And we're not talking ayahuasca or any of that supernatural BS, because a true shaman doesn't need a drug.
	And the shamanic experiences you have without drugs are so amazing.
	I mean, I've had them.
	I have read about these people who try the drug way.
	Nothing they have experienced, nothing they describe, even touches what happens with the natural brain chemistry when you're in the shamanic initiation.
	So, don't buy that.
	This is a technique that's really going to awaken true shamans and other people.
	It will put them in touch with yourself in the future, in a very real way, and it will clean out your emotional baggage, your programming, And get rid of stress, right?
	And the fear, because we're talking, we're living in a world now where actually, you know, the powers that be, they want fear to be part of their, and it is part of everyday life.
	And so that, these, this breathing technique especially, is moving towards getting rid of, being able to deal with the fear.
	And that doesn't, you know, getting rid would be maybe the wrong way to put it, because you're getting Exactly.
	Because having fear when you're being threatened is what's going to save your life.
	It's turning that fear into this positive thing, action, and that becomes courage.
	And so these techniques could be very valuable.
	These techniques are going to, you know, the feedback we've been getting has been marvelous, it's been wonderful, we never dreamed, or I never, I mean, jeez, if I'd known it was going to, you know, I created it just for myself.
	It never occurred to me that somebody else could do it or would do it.
	That I could take this technique and I could teach it to other people and that they would be having similar experiences.
	It's like one of those things where you go, duh!
	Because all this time that's been wasted, since 1994, You know, and maybe part of that is because of my lack of confidence in being, you know, sharing these things.
	And maybe that was part of the program that they tried to put into me that we talked about at the beginning.
	You know, to prevent me from sharing this with people because it is that powerful.
	It really is that powerful.
	Okay.
	Laura, thank you very much for your service.

▲