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Nov. 19, 2007 - Project Camelot
01:09:16
Project Camelot interviews Bill Holden
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Time Text
He says, You're right, young man.
And I just wish I knew then what I know now to have been able to go ahead and ask the President some of the questions that I have today.
And I think what it was, is the public ready to know about UFO and ET phenomena?
They wanted to see how we reacted.
Our president of this United States was murdered by our own people and for three specific reasons that I believe.
It was not Oswald.
Oswald had nothing to do with us.
He was the pansy.
When I started the speaking tour, it was, let the truth be known.
And that's how I feel about it.
It should be known.
Another time, another place, that I may have another encounter.
All of a sudden, This girl had just this beautiful, real long red hair.
And it is straight out like one of these things that you hold the electron thing over.
It is straight up in the air and she's pointing up and she is screaming bloody murder.
Going over the top of us is a craft that's the size of a football field, rectangular in shape, moving at slow speed toward Edwards Air Force Base.
I said, sir, then I suggest you go back to your car and tell whoever told you to come here, stay out of my business unless they've changed the Constitution and where it says I have the freedom of speech and the liberty and the right To go where I want to go and do what I want to do.
So we're here with Bill Holden and you flew on Air Force One with Kennedy.
Yes.
And you had conversations with him way back then about your, well, about ET visitation in some cloaked way.
Is that right?
Somewhat, and I can go ahead and give you a better description of what actually happened.
I was stationed in Wiesbaden Air Force Base in Germany, and this was June of 1963, and President Kennedy was on his way to do the Ich bin ein Berliner speech in Berlin.
And I had the pleasure of being one of the stewards on board and greeted him that morning.
And President Kennedy was one of these gentlemen that he knew everyone.
And so when he came on board, he knew who I was.
And he says, Good morning, Airman Holden.
I says, Good morning, Mr.
President.
That morning I had picked up a couple of newspapers from the local newspapers, English edition, and there had been two UFOs spotted over the Autobahn and clear pictures right on the front page.
And so I had them sitting on the table and I had asked him if he would like some juice and coffee.
And he said, juice would be fine, thank you.
And by that time he looked down at the paper and saw what was there.
And he looked up at me and says, well what do you think?
And then I said, well, what do you think, sir?
And he looked back at me and with just that phenomenal smile of his, he says, I asked you first.
So I laughed about that and I said, well, sir, I'm an old southern boy from down in Georgia and my grandfather was a Methodist preacher down there and for us to believe, That we're the only intelligent beings in the world is unbelievable.
So, yes, I believe that there is such thing as other human species as well as UFOs.
And what did he say?
He says, you're right, young man.
And I just wish I knew then what I know now to have been able to go ahead and ask the President some of the questions that I have today.
Wonderful.
So, did you have any other conversations with him as time went on?
Not really.
As you know, we unfortunately lost him in November of 1963.
And the anniversary flight, the following year, I was with his brother, Robert, And the Ford family, his wife, and two of the children.
And we went back and did the anniversary flight to the Ischbenheim Berliner.
And then actually went, we had Princess Leigh Radzaville on board, and we had the opportunity to actually go see the Radzaville estate in Poland.
Did you talk to Robert Kennedy about that?
No, I did not.
That was basically that experience.
I don't know what a person on Air Force One would have in your position.
Was that a top secret clearance or was that any kind of clearance at all?
It's known as a top hat, and it means it's above a top secret because you may hear something in conversation on board the aircraft, and whatever is said there stays there, and that's our responsibility.
Okay, but the conversation between you and Kennedy, you were able to kind of You've spoken about it since at conferences and so on.
Was this a conscious decision of yours to come out, or was this because of that experience, or was it because of other experiences you had that made you come forward?
There were many other experiences that occurred, as far as three particular in my military career.
One happened prior to meeting with President Kennedy, and that was in August of 1962.
And I was down in Zweibrocken, Germany, doing a swim meet down there.
And it's a Canadian airbase there.
And I had won my event and was guest of this Canadian Air Force pilot and his family at his house.
And during the course of the evening, he says, what are your plans tomorrow?
And I said, well, I was going to ask your daughter if she'd show me around Zweibrocken and And just kind of tour the city.
He says, well, I understand that you're a jet mechanic.
I said, yes, I am.
He said, how would you like to go fly tomorrow?
And I said, hmm, go fly or go on a tour with your daughter.
I looked at her and said, I'm sorry, I want to go fly.
So we took off that next morning in one of the most phenomenal aircraft that I've ever had the pleasure of being in, and it was the F-104 Starfighter.
And it was the fastest known aircraft to man at that time.
During the course of our flight that morning, at about 10 o'clock position, I saw this weird shaped craft to my left, and I said, bogey, 10 o'clock, and what is it?
The pilot looked over there and says, don't know, let's go find out.
He hit the afterburner on it, which just launches you at mock speeds, and we took off to this.
Now, here we are in the world's fastest aircraft, and this aircraft disappeared on us.
It went away so fast.
Well, this was my actual true introduction to what cover-ups and everything else is about, both in the military and in the public, and politically.
When we got back, we were met by a commander, and he said, who are you?
I identified myself, and he said, what you saw today you haven't seen and do not discuss with anybody.
And they put me in a car and took me back to the captain's house.
The captain came in like about four hours later and he said, Bill, whatever you do, do not say one word about this experience.
It will hurt me.
It will hurt everything that I'm about.
And I said, sir, I won't say a word about this.
And I haven't until, you know, after many, many, many years and out of the service in 77 and I first started speaking in 1995.
Okay, so after that experience, did you know you'd seen, I don't know, a UFO? Did you know, I mean, in other words, did you have any idea what it was?
Did you get a picture in your mind of what the craft looked like and not to tell you?
Was it a flying saucer?
It was indeed, and this was right over the Rhine River.
So, wow.
And we were like at about, oh, I'm going to say about 50,000 feet of altitude.
So there's no doubt about it.
As far as the drawing is concerned, that's a flying saucer.
Right.
And in the front page of the newspaper on that morning in June of 1963, this was something, a similar type aircraft, and this was where the two that were seen over the Autobahn And this is in Germany?
Right.
This is in Germany.
This was outside of Wiesbaden between Wiesbaden and Frankfurt on the Autobot.
And they put this in the newspaper?
Front page.
Wow.
Cover.
Very interesting.
So the Germans at that point were not, I mean I don't know what the article said, but they were not really keeping this a super secret from the people at that point.
That's the uniqueness about the Europeans, the Mexicans, and other locations in the world.
They have no problem In showing actual pictures of UFOs and experiences and telling about experiences and it's front page.
It's not page 96 in the last section.
It's not completely forbidden and it's not a laughing matter necessarily either.
Right.
Well that's great.
So moving forward in time, your next experience in the military, what would that be?
That would be the summer of 1966 and I was stationed in Colorado Springs at Peterson Field and I was flying for the ADC commander and I was also providing support for the Air Force Academy.
When you say you were flying, were you operating the aircraft?
I wasn't a pilot, no.
I was a loadmaster and I was special air missions and flight steward.
So we took care of special missions that were either with high ranking officials, international dignitaries, or special missions that we were going on, such as this one.
And we were taken into, in fact I was taken in privately, into a room and I met with an Air Force Lieutenant Colonel.
And at that point he said, this is a voluntary mission.
And I said, sir, I take every mission as a mission.
You don't have to ask me what I'd like to go.
You tell me, I'll go.
And so he went ahead and he had me sign a document that was a 20-year non-disclosure agreement with full penalties all the way up to going to prison and losing all rights.
And this was in what year?
1966.
It was the summer of 66.
And what he indicated was that I was going to be flying back to Andrews Air Force Base and I was going to be picking up high-ranking military officials and high-ranking scientific individuals.
So I agreed to everything and went ahead, planned the mission, got all the food and everything that would be required on the trip.
Flew into Andrews Air Force Base, spent the night, the next morning we loaded up early, and there was one Brigadier General, there were a couple of colonels, and then the rest of the entourage were high-ranking civilian engineers and scientists.
Did you know the names of these people?
No.
No, I did not.
Did you recognize them?
No, I did not.
From there we went to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Dayton, Ohio.
We landed there and they went to what was called the Blue Hangar.
Now, a lot of people know what the Blue Hangar is about, and it was where a lot of the reverse engineering was being done on UFOs that were found in the late 40s that had crashed.
Are you saying that you knew this at the time?
In other words, when you were told you were going to the Blue Hanger, it was general knowledge among people that you worked with that that's what that was?
No, there was only a special few that knew what the Blue Hanger was about.
Did you know at the time?
I did not.
I learned later.
So it was really unique.
So from there we flew to Colorado Springs, where our base was, and they went up to the Air Force Academy, they went to Cheyenne Mountain, which was NORAD headquarters, and where the Cheyenne Mountain Complex and where all the early warning system and headquarters as far as for missions there.
And then from there we left and flew to White Sands in New Mexico.
And we landed and all of us were put on a bus and to this day I still do not understand why we went along.
So normally you would stay with the aircraft.
We would have stayed with the aircraft and stayed on the base.
Okay.
And this has happened both times that we, as an entire entourage, were taken with the group.
So anyway, we got onto a bus.
The bus was blacked out in the area that we were sitting in.
And basically this gentleman, not in an Air Force uniform, but in khaki colored, with a special emblem, and I can't remember the emblem on the left sleeve.
And they were armed and they had a clipboard and each one of us had to show our military ID. And then we were checked off the list and then we were told to go ahead and sit down.
We traveled probably for about 45 minutes to an hour.
And then I was right up front and off to the right front seat there so I could kind of see through to where the driver was and through the window there.
But as far as the...
When we got there we were stopped.
And I could see like walls of a mountain on the left side by the driver and then a guard rail that was down.
And then this guy got on board with another gentleman and walked through with a clipboard and again all of us had to show our IDs.
From that point we were driven on in and we stopped at this, there was a line shack out there, we got off the bus and the entourage was escorted over to where there was a A UFO on the ground.
There were like two Quonset huts and another building, a runway, and we were inside a box canyon.
And then From what I could see, we weren't able to get right up with the entourage.
The crew was held back, but basically what I was able to see was that there were two UFOs in one piece flight suit.
They were probably about five feet tall in comparing to the other people around them.
Okay, you mean there was one UFO and there were two extraterrestrial beings.
Correct.
Okay.
And they were wearing one-piece suits.
One-piece suit, light aluminum colored.
Okay.
Okay.
Their skin was a pale color.
And as what is typified or called a grayling is what they look like.
The larger head, the large black eyes, small mouth, small nose.
Is this what they would look like or not?
Surprisingly, very much so, but the nose is more protruding here and the lips are fuller.
And then the other thing that, and there's an amazing story behind this piece, but as far as The back is very true to what the Graylings were like.
They have a musculature across the back like this, but very thin-lipped across here.
Their arms, very thin, and the hands were long and thin.
Now, I've been asked many times, were there four fingers or five fingers?
And I said, to be absolutely honest, I have never I've never known that.
I never knew to look for that, didn't think about it, okay?
Okay, so are you still in the bus at this time or are you outside?
No, we're outside.
Okay, but you're back from the group.
We're back from the group.
But you can still see.
We can see, yes.
Okay.
And was there any verbal introduction or preamble to what you saw?
Not at all.
Where we were put on this was the fact that the way it went, we were not allowed to ever discuss the mission with any of the participants.
And basically, when the crew was around, there was no conversation going on about what was going on at the site.
Were you shocked?
Excited.
Not shocked.
Really?
Excited.
Okay.
Did any of the aliens exchange what you would consider to be eye contact with you?
No.
Too far away.
Okay.
But basically, they were very, as I said, they were real thin and long arm, long hand, longer neck, thin, and their heads were larger.
About how tall?
About five feet tall.
Okay.
But the thing that I saw is when they moved, they were very graceful.
Really?
Very graceful in their movement.
Okay.
But that was a very unique...
So did you sign a nondisclosure during that time?
Was that a nondisclosure with a certain length of time?
20 years.
Oh, that was the 20-year one.
Right.
Okay.
So we're past that time, and you got past that time, and then you started speaking out.
So this is another incident.
Did anything else happen?
Yes.
During that time.
Now, in the fall, I was brought back in and briefed again by the same lieutenant colonel.
And he said, same drill, same scenario, signed the form.
I did.
And anyway, end up back in Andrews Air Force Base.
And this time, I'm expecting to see the same people again.
Totally, totally different crew.
There's an admiral, there's a captain, which is the equivalent of a full colonel in the Air Force.
This was basically an all-navy group with, again, high-ranking civilian engineers and scientists, but none of the same crew.
Totally different.
But here again we flew to Wright-Patterson.
Here again they went to the Blue Hangar.
We flew to Colorado Springs.
They again went up into Cheyenne Mountain.
And from there we went to Los Angeles.
And took off the next morning and we flew to Hawaii.
Landed at Hickam Air Force Base.
And we were told, have the airplane ready for leaving at midnight.
So we got everything ready, got some rest, back at the airplane, took off at midnight.
We flew for somewhere around 3 hours and 45 minutes to maybe 4 hours, and we're flying in a C-118, or what is the equivalent of a DC-6, okay?
And 4-engine, propeller, aircraft.
And we landed.
And I said, guys, we're back in Hawaii.
He says, what do you mean?
I says, there is nowhere out there that we can go fly for three hours, 45 minutes, four hours and land.
Okay?
Physically impossible in this airplane.
I says, Johnson Island is five and a half hours.
Guam is much more.
So, no, we're back in Hawaii somewhere.
So sure enough, again, which I still do not understand, is that we were all taken together.
And we went out to, we had breakfast, and then we went out to this site that's right by the ocean on the west side, because the sun was coming up behind us.
And we're looking to the west, and it's an observation deck.
And all of us are standing there.
And a little after seven in the morning, About this time, this craft comes out of the water from our left to our right and just goes like this and then stops out there in front of us.
Now, here again, double elliptical, saucer-shaped craft, but at the mid-beam on this, there's a light going back and forth like this at the mid-beam on it.
Okay.
Pretty much equal as far as in design, top and bottom, double elliptical.
Now, it sits out there and then almost instantaneously disappears.
So everybody's excited about what they're seeing and everything, and about this time somebody yells, it's back.
And it's now a little bit closer, about 100 yards out, maybe 100, 200 feet off the water, and it then demonstrates as far as going up and down, side to side, cants left and right, then cants at an angle and goes right back into the water.
Now when it goes into the water, And when it came out of the water, there was no explosion or implosion as far as it went back in.
And...
So what was the size of this vehicle?
Could you estimate?
Oh, I'm gonna...
100 yards out, I'm going to have to guess that this craft was somewhere around, and I'm guessing, I'm saying probably 50 to 60 feet overall length.
Okay.
Okay?
So it wasn't huge.
No.
But what was amazing about this, I had the opportunity later on to be able to meet the astronaut, Gordon Cooper.
And I had asked him about it, and he said, Bill, When you have an electromagnetic propulsion, there's a force field around it.
It's like that craft is inside a sandwich, so that when it comes out of it and when it goes back in, you're not going to see the explosion or the implosion.
So that was one of the explanations I was trying to find out.
Now, was it your understanding that that was flown by extraterrestrial beings, or was that one of ours?
My understanding was that it was ETs, still at the time.
Today, we have our own.
So it could have been one of ours.
I would say that it was probably a combination.
Oh really?
Yeah, in 66 it was all a matter of evolvement that's been coming along all the way through.
Gordon Cooper talks about the time that he was He was stationed out at Muroc, which is now Edwards Air Force Base.
He was a major at the time.
One actually landed and his crew was out there filming brake testing and everything with one of the craft.
They actually caught this craft landing and the door opening and closing and then taking back off again.
So at this point, you've had some really pretty amazing experiences, right?
Yes.
And in a certain sense, you've signed NDAs, but did you have what was considered to be a top secret beyond, or is this the top hat clearance that goes across the board for you at this time?
No, that was only during presidential.
And that's one of the things when you're in presidential service and someone says they're flying on Air Force One, That is any aircraft that the President is actually flying on.
It can be a helicopter, it can be the Spirit of America, which is 26,000.
Just briefly, could you explain to us, you have to be highly, highly trusted, I imagine, to have the job that you had.
Is this not true?
It required a full EBI, extensive background investigation, to be on presidential aircrew.
It also required, as far as that, for top secret.
Any of the missions that I flew after the presidential, all the way through 1974, when I was stationed in Panama, I had a top secret clearance.
Okay.
So, were you a member of a certain armed forces?
Air Force.
Air Force.
Right.
And what was your professional title under those circumstances?
I was a loadmaster and flight steward, special air missions.
That's what it's called?
That's what your title is?
Right.
Okay.
And did you change rank during that time?
I did.
I went from airman, second class, up to staff sergeant on my last, as far as when I saw my last encounter.
Okay.
And now, have you told us everything that happened to you in the military or do we have another one?
We have one more.
One more.
Okay.
Because what I would like to know after you tell me this is whether or not you feel that you've ever been called in for psych evaluation or been, to your knowledge, mind controlled or had suddenly told to go see the doctor on a periodic mission.
Never.
Never, okay.
Never.
That's interesting.
Okay.
In fact, I had a clean bill of health when I left the Air Force.
Okay.
Summer of 1971, I'm stationed at Patrick Air Force Base, Cocoa Beach, Florida.
I always loved to go down to the Indian River and go fishing and everything.
It was a Friday afternoon and I was going down and putting my gear out and everything.
Threw my line out and just kind of sat back.
And I'd like to preface this statement this way.
I don't smoke.
I don't drink.
Never done drugs.
And I'm the grandson of a Methodist preacher.
Okay.
So I wasn't having my beer.
I didn't have anything special as far as to, you know, put me out.
But I kind of leaned back against the palm.
And the next thing I know...
I'm on a pedestal table, I'm inside a craft, I'm looking up at a domed ceiling, I don't see any light fixtures, and I have three ETs to my left hand side.
Two short, one taller, and I'm guessing about five feet tall and maybe three and a half to four feet tall to my left.
And the only marking in the room is up on the ceiling is this brilliant, brilliant bright blue placard with three gold stars on it.
Okay?
Now, conversation as far as that I'm going through is all telepathic.
And basically, this has happened to me twice now.
Tell them to stop destroying Mother Earth.
Tell them to learn to love one another.
And thirdly, to take their mental and heart harmonics to a higher level.
And it's been the same message to me both times.
Okay, were you afraid?
Surprisingly not.
Surprisingly not.
Well, you'd had more exposure before that encounter than most people.
Well, also, even the very first one.
I wasn't afraid.
I was excited, as I have been with all of these.
So it didn't shock you and put you into any kind of altered state or conundrum about your religious beliefs versus what you were seeing and all that kind of thing.
You didn't have that kind of a break in your conscious understanding.
Not at all.
Not at all.
And the thing that I've found through all of my experiences Is that I've had a very open mind.
I've been one that I've been willing to learn and to share these experiences with others.
Because when I started the speaking tour, it was, let the truth be known.
And that's how I feel about it.
It should be known.
And the thing that I had out of this experience was the fact that the I found an implant in my left arm about right here.
It's about not quite an inch long and about three-eighths of an inch wide.
Okay.
You see where I'm pushing it up?
Yes.
So it's still there in us?
It's still there.
You never had it removed?
No.
And the thing that I've been asked, why haven't you had that taken out?
I said, I consider it a blessing that I have had these opportunities to be able to experience the UFO and the ET phenomena that I have seen.
And in so doing, they felt it important enough that whatever this device is, That it is following me, okay?
So maybe there's another time, another place that I may have another encounter.
And it's like the movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
And Richard Dreyfuss is there and you know all the experiences that he goes through.
You know all the disbelief and everything that they had talked about.
But he said, let me go.
And that's why I've always said, beam me up Scotty.
So I definitely don't have a problem with that.
Wonderful.
So you've had these experiences in the military.
Now, I'm assuming you've also had some civilian experiences, just because of the way you're talking.
Yes.
But at this point, you left the military voluntarily?
Not quite.
We have one more that did not involve UFO and ET phenomena, but while I was stationed in Panama at Howard Air Force Base in Southern Command, in the summer of 1973,
we were called in, we got a briefing, that we were going to be taking a civilian filming crew because one of the astronauts, as they were returning, They saw these hieroglyphics on the planes in Peru.
So they wanted somebody to go up there and actually film them, the Nazca plane.
And it's as the astronauts were returning, they saw this, and they of course called it in and talked about it.
And in their debriefing, they saw this.
They saw this and they explained about it and took pictures of it.
So anyway, what they did was we went out with that crew and we had the pleasure of actually walking the Nazca plane, physically being in the trench 18 to 24 inches deep and seeing this phenomenal creation that they had done.
And then also in this tour, We were at Machu Picchu, Cusco.
We saw drawings on the walls of helmeted figures, craft, and stuff like this that were dated eons ago.
And this is part of your military duty.
Right.
It sounds like you couldn't pay to get such a tour, right?
This was phenomenal.
Phenomenal.
And then in Lima, we were taken into this building that was maybe 5,000, 7,500 square feet in size.
And on the floor, and on shelving and everything, there were skeletons that were dated 20,000, 25,000 years ago.
Now, you asked about religious beliefs and everything else.
This is where you get into where the Bible, and we're talking about being taught about the Bible, and 6,000 years is what that Bible talks about.
It talks about before Christ, and when Christ comes, and the 2,000 years after, to where we are today.
The Greeks are the only ones that feel that there's another 1,000 years.
And it talks about, in Genesis, as far as in the beginning, man created.
Okay?
It went on and God created man and as far as Adam and Eve and all the evolution.
So, basically, this raised a lot of questions, especially being raised as the grandson of a Methodist preacher down in South Georgia and looking at things.
So, I turned around and I looked at it, and I wasn't disturbed by it.
What I looked at was this, is that the Bible, and if I take it phonetically, it's basic constructions before leaving earth.
It tells us how to live, how to get along with each other.
It's a chronological history of our mankind all the way through to where we are today.
That's what it's about.
It's how we're supposed to live.
It's how we're supposed to love each other and take care of one another.
Not all the war and everything else that's going on.
Now, so here I'm looking at remains that are dated older.
What have we found today now?
We have found remains that are 80,000, 100,000 years old.
We know about the dinosaurs being here a million, billions of years ago.
Okay?
So how does it say as far as today the Earth?
Okay?
Many, many, many, many millions of years old.
We've only been here for this period of time.
All these other civilizations have been here before us.
In this sense, were you putting together in your own mind with your own teachings that you got from, you know, your religious background and so on, with what you had been shown?
And did you just create some, you know, sort of a bridge between them that made sense to you?
And then I'm assuming you did some research since then.
So that this all comes together in a package.
But at the time, were you given, you know, by the military, for example, any instructions or any, in other words, did they say, you know, we were created by ETs and so on and so forth?
No.
They didn't, they never actually...
No.
So when they showed you these, when you were on these tours, you were with others, right?
Right.
And did you talk to these other people?
I talked within my own crew.
And what was the general consensus at that point?
Were people blown away?
Were they like you and relatively okay about everything?
Was there a wide variance in reactions?
Anytime you get a group of people together, there's different opinions.
But what I found was that I had a spiritual feeling about it.
I felt that there was a reason I shared that experience, and I was exposed to that experience.
I still feel that today.
Okay, but did you feel that the other people there were reacting, in other words, were they buttoned down and careful not to show too much reaction because they were part of a group doing this sort of thing?
There was nothing that was, oh my God, here's, you know, nothing like that.
They weren't falling over themselves with shock.
No.
So they were on some level with you as being in the know.
Here's an experience.
Here's what happened.
In the know.
Exactly.
So, okay.
So you were taken here, you were shown around this tour, and nobody explained to you, hey, you're going to be going on a tour that's going to change your life or anything like that, right?
No.
No.
In fact, we were never told what the mission was about.
We were just told that the mission was classified, and as far as we had to sign the non-disclosures.
Did you feel you were a test subject?
I don't know.
I feel...
Here's what I think.
I think that back in the time...
When was the first time that...
We supposedly found out about UFOs in the United States.
When?
Well, okay, 1947.
Roswell is the general.
Roswell is the notorious.
Okay.
But they were here before that.
Oh, yes.
Okay, now, here's the thing that happened.
What was causing the crashes?
Because there was more than one.
There were many crashes in the Four Corners.
And what had happened was up in the northwest corner of New Mexico was a huge radar dome that was put up.
And it was basically to protect the southwest corridor and to be early warning.
Well, what happened was that every time that turned on, and as the UFOs flew through it, they were all of a sudden thrown kittywampus and everything, and thrown out of control.
When was that built?
That was built in probably the mid-40s, 44, 45, probably after the Pearl Harbor.
I see.
Yeah.
Okay, well, I understand that it is said that radar took down those UFOs.
It did.
Okay.
Did you have any exposure to actual crash scenes?
Were you brought out on crash scenes at all?
No.
Was not.
Okay.
In...
Did you share stories with other people in the military who were?
No.
Have you talked to Clifford Stone, for example?
Probably at the conference.
Not inside the military?
No.
I was long gone out of the military before I ever spoke one word.
It was long past my 20 years.
Tell us why you came forward.
I felt that it was important that the world knows that UFOs and ETs are true.
They are real.
But was there an incident?
You asked a question, though, I want to go back to.
All right.
Because you asked, were we a test, okay?
Uh-huh.
You know what I think?
I think that I can look back on that now, because I've always been trying to figure out why were we taken along on both instances.
And I think what it was, is the public ready to know about UFO and ET phenomena?
They wanted to see how we reacted.
Well, you reacted very well.
Why haven't they come forward?
You know what I'm saying?
Because that was one of the things that came out in the 50s.
Okay?
And that's why...
So, but this was after the 50s.
This is after Project Blue Book.
They're still testing.
They're still trying to find out.
Exactly.
They had a great reaction.
I don't know about your other, you know, fellow crewmen, so to speak.
Any ideas why since then?
Can we hold that question?
Sure.
Because if we can, I want to walk you up to this, because in 1996 and 1997, I'll have your answer.
Okay.
Okay?
Okay.
So you're out of the military, and what happens?
1977.
In 1978, I'm living in California, and I'm up in Lancaster, and I've been invited to go out for a tailgate party, and we were going out to a place called Mars Hill, which is out in the Mojave Desert, close to Edwards Air Force Base.
And they said, if you want to see crazy things at night, you've got to go here.
So we're all out there, and we're having a barbecue, and we're watching things.
And about this time, we had been commenting on some of the light formations and everything, the way the planes were, the craft were flying around, and said, that's nothing that we make that can do that.
And we're laughing about that.
And then, all of a sudden, this girl had just this beautiful, real long red hair.
And it is straight out, like one of these things that you hold the electron thing over, it is straight up in the air, and she's pointing up and she is screaming bloody murder.
Going over the top of us is a craft that's the size of a football field, rectangular in shape, moving at slow speed toward Edwards Air Force Base.
We bail.
We get out of there so fast it's not even funny.
Did you feel the electromagnetics on yourself?
Did not.
But the next morning, I got up and I go in to shave and I... Whoa!
I am like I have a big sunburn.
Anywhere that was exposed on me was just like a sunburn.
So you were living Close Encounters of the Third Kind.
You are Richard Dribus, right?
What happened was that...
We, of course, called everybody.
So, of course, I went down to my doctor and everything, and he says, and he checked as far as to make sure that there wasn't any radiation.
There was no encounter as far as radiation goes.
And he said, it looks like there's no skin damage, but where you were exposed, give it a week, let's see if it goes away.
And sure enough, a week later, everything is back to normal.
But anywhere it was exposed, it was this better than burnt red.
Okay, did you have a sense that that was one of ours, or that was...
Definitely not ours.
Mothership.
And President Eisenhower in 1953 or 54, one of the two days, two years, he's president-elect and he's out at, I believe he was out in Palm Springs and he was getting ready to play golf.
And all of a sudden, he said, I've got a toothache.
I need to go see the dentist.
Now, instead of going like about 30 miles over to Riverside and to the Air Force Base there and going to see a dentist there, he goes all the way to Edwards Air Force Base.
Now, history says that this is where he met The ETs.
And that an agreement was signed between the US and the ETs.
And as far as that, a mothership was seen coming in, there were a number of UFOs coming in, and that the base was literally shut down for three days.
I have been able to find that the base was shut down for three days.
I've been able to find in civilian records, newspaper accounts, everything else as far as those facts were validated.
I have never been able to find the base historian.
I cannot find out that he's living or dead.
He's disappeared.
I can't find him because there's a lot of information that's somewhere.
Okay?
Now, from that point, Was where a number of experimentations took place.
And when you hear about the 10,000 cattle that were massacred, okay, and nobody could explain how all these different things happened to them.
Well, what happened was it was laser testing.
And it was everything from being mounted on helicopters, on jeeps, on trucks, on tanks, and backpacks.
And it was the only way that they could test it without testing it on human beings.
And that's what that was about.
When we got into where we were talking about reverse engineering on the craft that was brought in from the 47 crash at Roswell and other locations, this is where we get into the transistors.
This is where we get into electromagnetic propulsion.
For our purposes, you've now told us about a civilian sighting that you had that was pretty outrageous.
Right.
Now, these people, were they friends of yours?
Were they also in the military?
Were they ex-military?
No.
This is local friends in the area.
And they were not military?
No.
Not at all.
You did not know them in the military?
No.
Okay.
Okay.
So at this point, you're pretty much an old hand at this, right?
I mean, for all intents and purposes, you've been around.
So now, you've had other experiences since then?
Yes.
Okay, you want to tell us what those are?
Okay.
In the fall of 1991, I'm living in Silver Lakes in Hellandale, California.
And I'm driving home, and it's in the evening.
It's a clear Clear night and as far as there's no clouds that I can see as far as until I turn off going into Silver Lakes off of Old Route 66 between Victorville and Barstow about halfway.
As I'm turning in I see this one little cloud across here and I see these large kind of orange colored orbs Not coming down from them, but going up into the cloud.
Okay?
So I park and I watch this.
Now, I'm trying to judge how big these orbs are because I'm sitting in the car and I'm about a half a mile away from the site and it's about the size of my thumb at that point.
So figure, half a mile away, the size of my thumb, how big is this orb?
It's pretty big.
So, anyway, I see that.
Now, in So nothing happened?
Nothing happened.
No missing time?
No missing time.
I didn't go away and here it is.
Now in 1993 I'm still living there and I'm leaving With my wife to go in to Victorville to go out for a night's entertainment and everything.
And I'm pulling out of the project and all of a sudden I see this huge bright light in the sky.
And I'm thinking, oh my god, there's a plane exploded, or a missile exploded and everything, whatever.
But there's this huge light, and all of a sudden, it just doesn't go away.
It starts pulsing.
This light is going in and out like this.
And then, so I take off and going on the Hellandale Road, going out toward 395, and this thing is starting to move to the west.
And I'm speeding up to over 100 miles an hour, and it's pulling away from me.
And so it starts going like this and it's getting faster and all of a sudden it goes just like that and it's gone.
Your wife saw this at the same time.
Right.
Now, at that point, I called the Sheriff's Department, I called FAA, I called Vandenberg, because Vandenberg is where they had the missile chutes and stuff like that.
Vandenberg said there was no missile chute, and it went on, you know, as far as I contacted everybody I could.
Did any of them say that they'd seen anything that had shown up on radar, that sort of thing?
No.
But as far as that in the newspaper the next day, it talked about it.
It talked about the bright lights and everything.
So at this point, had you started going to conferences and speaking out?
Interesting you should ask that.
I had not even thought about talking about this.
Okay.
Okay?
Till 1995, I get invited to a classified conference They even change my name, give me tickets, different identification, and I fly in to Northern California, and I'm taken to a place called the Allisol Ranch.
And it's a conference that later you'll find out that it was put on by the Rockefeller Foundation.
Bob Dean was there.
Really?
Okay.
Two KGB officers were there.
There was a Russian pilot there, astronaut.
There was the lieutenant colonel that his father owned the ranch in Roswell that found the stuff, that kept some of the stuff and buried it.
So that was brought out at the conference.
Okay.
And when they...
Brought out this one piece that had come off the craft.
It was like an I-beam, miniature I-beam, very lightweight, and it had hieroglyphics on it.
And we're talking about it, and I said, this looks familiar.
There's something about this, and sure enough, two of the characters matched the Phoenician Sanskrit.
Okay?
Okay.
So that was...
That's an interesting link.
That was an interesting link that we looked at there.
You didn't call Zachariah Sitchin or anything to tell him of what you'd seen, huh?
No.
In fact, I don't know whether Zachariah was there or not.
We had one of our own astronauts there.
We had two naval officers there.
Air Force officer there, and a number of industrialists, but this thing was treated so classified, I thought that the President was going to be there.
That's how much this was talked about.
Okay, so were there any congressman people there?
Don't know.
So, why do you think you were invited to this classified gathering?
I mean, you'd already been in the know.
You'd already been in the military.
What was the purpose?
I think somebody knew that I had had some of these experiences from the military.
Okay.
Because I hadn't gone public.
Right.
Had you talked on the phone about this?
Nope.
What about surveillance?
Do you think they had an eye on you, electronically?
Not until later.
Okay.
Computers, were they around in 95?
I know they were around in 98.
Yeah, I wasn't doing anything.
Nothing on computers?
No.
What was your civilian job at that point?
I worked for myself.
As?
I was a consultant.
I was in real estate.
But here's what was interesting.
Is because in 1996, I went out and, with a couple of friends, drove around the Skunk Works, Lockheed Skunk Works, just outside of Hellendale.
It's two miles square.
Right.
Okay, and everybody talked about that.
Oh, it's just a radar testing facility.
I said, no, it's not.
There's something about this.
So I drove all the way around it, and then we went into this one area.
And...
Outside the fence, I found this rock and a bunch of other rocks that had been burnt with high temperature.
And you can see where this part right here Okay?
You can see how that was in the dirt.
Now, picture this being in the dirt, and that's what was exposed, and this was how much heat was on this rock.
And this was in the mud.
So, and this is in a circle that's about 36 feet in diameter.
And I have a picture I can show you where this little girl is picking this rock up out of the mud.
And then these are around it.
And then there were alkali deposits at six or eight different points in the circle that were about this big around.
And that if you actually stepped onto it, you would have gone down in it maybe about 18, 24 inches.
It was like the ground was all broken loose right there.
And so that was found right there by the site.
Now, what was interesting about this was that This picture right here says, trespass, loitering, forbidden by law, trespassers are subject to prosecution, private property, no trespass, Lockheed Corporation.
Now this is all the way around the complex.
These signs are posted.
Okay.
Now we're driving around and this Jeep pulls up there and it's got armed security officers on it telling us to get out of there.
And I said, I'm on the civilian side.
You're on that side.
You can't tell me what to do.
So, what was interesting about this was this is the antenna that's out there by the runway.
And I called it a runway.
Now, this is the alkali that I'm talking about, and these deposits were like six spots around the circle.
And as far as the hole that I was talking about, because I stepped into this, and this is how I knew that anywhere that kind of an alkali area was, that the ground underneath it had been disturbed.
You've decided somehow, some way to come forward.
Okay.
Following the conference at the Ellis Hall Ranch was when I received a personal invite to go to Mesquite and talk at the international conference, UFO conference.
Okay, but did you know someone there?
Why did they know to contact you?
They were at the Alice Hall conference.
And this individual that puts on the conferences and everything was there.
Was one of the people there.
Really?
One of the people there.
Very interesting.
Do you mean the international warfare conference?
Yeah.
Bob Brown?
Bob Brown.
Wow.
Okay.
So Bob Brown is certainly in the know at this point.
Right.
And so he had invited me to come to this conference.
That was my introduction to public speaking and going out and talking about UFO and ET phenomena, Let the Truth Be Known.
Okay, but did you at that point need convincing?
Because Bob Brown, you're at this ranch, you're talking to all these people, you meet Bob Dean, I assume you guys shared stories?
Oh, we knew each other from when we were stationed in Europe.
Because I was flying for General Gabriel Disaway and he was working, he was the command sergeant major For the Commander of Usurur.
Very interesting.
Well, we just did an interview with him, so that's why I'm asking you.
How is he doing?
He's wonderful.
He's a beautiful man.
He's a real privilege to meet him.
Please tell him.
I said hello, because I've lost contact with him.
Would you like us to provide you with his details?
Oh, I would love to know how to get a hold of him again.
Have you had any kind of threats?
One time only.
I had come back from my talk in San Diego, and this was in 1996, I believe.
It was either 96 or 97.
And I'm living in Victorville.
And it had to be 97.
So I'm living in Victorville.
And this black Ford pulls up in front.
This guy, about 6'2", all black, gets out of the car, comes up to the door.
And I open the door and he says, Mr.
Holden?
And I says, yes.
I'd highly suggest and recommend that you change your public speaking subject.
I said, do you have a warrant for my arrest or a presidential order or something telling me that I can't speak publicly anymore?
No.
I said, sir, then I suggest you go back to your car And tell whoever told you to come here, stay out of my business unless they've changed the Constitution and where it says I have the freedom of speech and the liberty and the right to go where I want to go and do what I want to do.
Okay?
He took a step toward me and about that time I pulled out something from behind my back and I said, you have 30 seconds to get to your car.
And I'm serious.
So he turned around and I've never heard anything since then.
But I have openly, openly spoken about this and will continue to do so.
And anyone that would like to have me as a speaker, it's just a matter of contacting me and you can post my email and phone number and be able to do that.
Okay.
Well, you're a brave man.
Obviously, they were not able to intimidate you.
Have you ever talked to other presidents besides Kennedy?
No.
I mean, I served with President Kennedy, President Johnson, President Nixon.
And neither Johnson nor Nixon?
Never.
You had no reason talking about it?
Johnson was a horse's butt, and I was only with Nixon on the pre-flight to his China trip, and then that was it, and then I was out of the presidential.
Okay.
Did you have reason to believe that Kennedy was murdered by a conspiracy?
I will put it this way.
Our president of this United States was murdered by our own people and for three specific reasons that I believe.
It was not Oswald.
Oswald had nothing to do with this.
He was the pansy.
Right.
And three reasons which were...
I'd rather hold that.
Okay.
I have an interview that I did with Colonel Gordon Cooper, USAF NASA astronaut, back on October the 22nd of 96.
We had become very near dear friends.
He was stationed as an astronaut down at Cocoa Beach and I was stationed at Patrick and my last mission was the Apollo 13 mission.
Really?
And I was working there and working with special air missions and also special events whenever they were doing a launch and helping dignitaries.
Wonderful.
Well, so he was a very interesting man.
Wonderful.
Wonderful man.
Okay.
In 1997, this is November the 12th of 1997, And if you look up in the upper left-hand corner of the newspaper, and this is the Evening Gazette, this is the number one newspaper in the northwest of England, and this was talking about the conference.
Now, anywhere else, In the United States, they would never do a front page, even talk about UFOs, let alone give you a full page article.
So this is in England?
This was in England in November of 1997.
And you went to speak, I'm assuming, as part of a conference or something else?
It was to speak in a number of locations.
One was, I spoke in Manchester, I spoke in Lytham St.
Anne's, Blackpool, at Cardiff-by-the-Sea in Wales, and then over in Dublin, Ireland.
Okay, but why did they invite you?
Because they wanted the latest, at that time I was one of the latest subjects talking about UFO and ET phenomena.
I see.
Okay.
So they've got a picture there of you and the carving or mask, whatever you want to call this.
Okay.
Now, the interesting story of our friend.
This is Al the Alien.
And I was at, of all things, the State Fair in Victorville, and up on a shelf, there were three of these heads.
Now, one thing was that upon looking at this, I found it to be rather unique that it was very close to what a true grayling was.
So that whoever had made this head knew what he was doing.
And what told me that was the fact that the musculature across the back of the skull was very true.
Okay, but I'm going to interrupt you here because you've told us that you've seen greys on a few occasions.
Yes.
But did you actually see the back of their head?
Yes.
Or how do you know this?
Yes.
Oh, you did?
Yes.
And that's why I said the things that's wrong about this was the fact that the nose is too large.
It was just a very small protrusion.
And the mouth, you don't have really lips, but just a straight line, almost a straight line across.
Okay.
And everything.
But this was very unique.
And somewhere...
On here, it may have worn off now.
No, it says that this was done by L. Carr, C-A-R-R, was who did this.
So, very interesting.
Now, do you feel like there is more to the story than what you've told us here?
In other words, There's a lot more.
Okay.
And this is because you have personal experience with other things that you haven't brought up here or because you've done research?
Research.
Research, okay.
Research and talking to very knowledgeable people, engineers that have been out, worked at Area 51, people who have worked in the tunnels, huge tunnel system in the United States.
Okay.
And is this tunnel system set up, do you think, for anything approaching 2012?
Or do you think that these are areas where they simply have underground bases that they are doing reverse engineering, housing various ETs?
I think all of the above.
This has been wonderful.
Thank you for the opportunity.
You are a wonderful speaker.
I appreciate you coming from here today.
My pleasure.
Talking to Project Ham a lot.
My pleasure.
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