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Nov. 18, 2007 - Project Camelot
53:28
Project Camelot interviews John Lear
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Time Text
And what do I know?
Well, you seem to know it a hell of a lot.
So we're just trying to, you know, kind of get to the root of what you know.
It only just fits together as two yards.
People are so friggin' dense, you know.
They can't put them together.
Absolutely.
Then another dead cow, then another dead cow.
I mean, there was 30 dead cows there.
10 miles north of Corona, and here comes this A7, you know, just...
Coming down and buzzing us and everything, and I looked up and they said, Linda, how can this be after that?
What, what, what, what, what?
And he said, all right.
You never know what it's like to see your first failure.
It would have been a, you know, exposed the entire cover-up.
We were ushered into John's amazing study.
He's got televisions all over the wall.
He's got photos of airplanes, celebrities, his family.
Here we see a photograph of Area 51.
This is a real photograph, a high-resolution photograph.
It's about four feet long.
Amazing picture taken from what I believe was called Freedom Ridge.
This has now been closed to public access, but somebody took a lot of care taking this incredible photograph.
And this is something that really captivated my interest.
It's the F-19, which is supposed not to exist.
And what would seem to be planes he loves and planes he's flown.
He's a very mysterious man.
He has so many top secret contacts.
You don't really know what he's flown and what he's actually just put on the wall because he loves the look of it.
Here's a picture of the moon.
It's about three foot by two foot.
It's very high resolution.
And in John's own words, this is before it was airbrushed by What happened as soon as we sat down was that John immediately started talking about not the three astronauts that were killed in the fire on the Apollo 1 launch pad in January 27, 1967, but four astronauts.
There's a fourth astronaut whose existence has never been admitted by NASA. The whole thing is being covered up for very specific reasons, and here is John to tell his story.
It's the best kept secret.
I mean, it is.
Now figure all those guys in mission control They were all like between 25 and 35.
So it's been four years.
So now they're between 65 and 35.
Some of them are still living.
I don't know whether they keep up to what's going on.
So you're saying they knew what happened?
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, they were all there.
They heard...
I don't know if you've seen my stuff on the Internet about what I assume that...
Gus Grissom said, you know, he said, okay, you assholes, killers were dead, this is a fire that could have been invented, and you didn't do it, you know.
He had a long time to say that.
And all of a sudden, I have all the Apollo records, all the, you know, the stuff, the action stuff, and a lot of things happened.
And the emails that I've gotten from Clark on it, you know, are very circumspect.
He's very careful about what he says.
And, um, But in my mind, he's confirmed totally what happened, without saying so in so many words.
And basically what I asked him was what was the name of the fourth astronaut, and he never gave it to me.
But I found out from other sources who it was.
Are you at liberty to say?
No.
And the reason is, is because I want somebody to come to me and say, I know who it was, and then say the name.
Wow.
Colton.
So, if we think we know, we could email you, maybe?
Absolutely.
Can you ask me an email?
So, what's so interesting about the reason they couldn't talk about the 4,000...
And, of course, when the fire happened, NSA cordoned off everything for 45 minutes while they took that body out.
When you read through all the scenarios, you can see where that 45 minutes fit into there, where they took that body out.
Now, the reason they didn't want anybody to know about the body is because he was part of the secret aspirin corps.
So, if anybody would have found out that body, they would have wondered, well, who was it?
What was his name?
Well, what did he do?
Well, how come he hasn't left it here?
You know, expose the entire cover.
So that's why they couldn't...
So that secret astronaut corps is a huge secret.
And I interviewed Gary McKinnon, and he tapped into that.
Gary's telling us all about it.
I don't know why people don't put that together.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
That's beautiful.
Gary's got the whole story there.
It was so interesting that Gary should come out at the same time that I uncovered the fourth astronaut.
Oh, really?
At the same time?
Well, it was the same time.
He led plus or minus a couple of months.
Wow.
So Gary, boy, I'd sure like to talk with that guy, but he talks about, you know, the non-terrestrial officers.
That's right.
I mean, the story just fits together.
It's too hard.
People are so friggin' dense, you know, they can't put that together.
Absolutely.
So we also want to talk a little bit about Dulcy and what you know about Dulcy.
And I know that people are saying, you know, the Benowitz story, what just didn't happen, and I know that you've confirmed that it did.
That Benowitz was correct.
He was, and I got into that when I first got into this.
I ended up in Crestone, Colorado, with Linda Howe, and there was like 10 of us there, and somebody had donated a condo in Crestone that had been used by the Aspen Institute for their get-togethers and studies.
And we met, and it was three or four days there, and we talked about what should go on, and what should we do, and about the state of ufology, and how each one could contribute.
And I ended up leaving there and driving with Linda, and while we were there, Tom Adams, you know who Tom is?
No.
He was one of the chargers on weird UFO stuff, mutilations, all that stuff, in 1987-88, I don't want to add it.
He put out that flyer called Stigmata.
It was really interesting stuff.
So anyway, he handed me a note.
He said, John, somebody called me from Las Vegas, and you might want to follow this up because I can't do it.
And it was a handwritten note about a place called Dulcy.
The person knew somebody that worked there and talked about nursing a bit about Tulsi.
And the thing I remember about the note was it says, and tiled hallways that went on forever.
And boy, this captivated my imagination.
So anyway, I go with Lynn Howe.
We go down to Albuquerque.
We look up Ernie Edwards.
We talk with Ernie Edwards.
Is he still alive, by the way?
You know, I don't know.
But he was so forthright and, to me, so honest.
He said, he believed Benowitz.
You know, we talked about, during that time, the health perky radar, the AA radar was shut down for a long period.
And I said, what do you think happened?
He said, I think they brought a black ship through there, and they didn't want it on radar.
I said, how can you, a colonel, an active colonel in the Air Force, say something like that?
He said, that's what I believe.
So anyway, and then we talked about all kinds of stuff, and then Linda and I went down to, drove down to Roswell, and that was an interesting ship.
We're driving down Roswell, and we're about 10 miles north of Corona, and here comes this A7, you know, just coming down and buzzing us and everything.
And I looked up and I said, Linda, how can this be happening to us, you know?
I know those A7s, you know, they're part of the F-117A stealth fighters, right?
Anyway, we turn off Corona, and we go over this little road, It's been a dirt road over towards the main road that came down from the highway to Roswell.
We get just before the turnoff that goes down to Mac Brazzles Ranch.
And we're bumping along, and here's one dead cow, then another dead cow, then another dead cow.
I mean, there were 30 dead cows there.
So we go over to the dead cows, and there's no obvious sign of the mutilation.
We go on the road down towards Mack, Bradwell, where it used to be his ranch.
We talked to the farmer there, and he said, oh, yeah, he said, we don't know what's happened.
He said, we contacted the state veterinary stuff, and it's this particular disease for everyone.
Anyway, later, Linda contacted somebody and found out that, no, it could have been that disease, because there would have been a 50-mile corridor around there.
So that was just one of those little interesting things.
So then we went down, and we talked to Clifford Stone and Dwight.
No.
Oh, do you?
And then I went back up.
So Clifford Stone, does he know about the Dulce situation as well?
Oh, yeah.
He knows everybody.
So then I went up, and I'm thinking that all...
I try to remember whether I went and stayed at Ben's or was his house before this happened or after, but at some point I went and spent two days in his house with him and his wife, listened to his story, Spent a lot of time with him.
Looked out, locked into all of his pictures, all the stuff showing the flying saucers, taking off from the Manzano weapons storage area and landing, you know.
They were great big by Tim Prince.
A guy named Chris Lambright had them last that I knew.
I was going to steal them from Chris, but I gave them back to him.
And I have one or two 4x5s for those.
Oh, do you?
Anyway, and then...
I left Benowitz, and he gave me the big x-ray of the little thing that the girl had in her neck.
And that I gave to when I was there, and I don't know what he ever did.
But anyway, I end up in Dahlstedt, call up Gabe Dahlstedt, and say, I'm here again.
He says, yeah.
He says, look, I've got patrol tonight between 10 o'clock and 6 in the morning.
Do you want to go with me?
I said, yeah.
So he comes over, and...
I say, I'm John Lear.
He says, I know who you are.
I remember you were here 20 years ago in a Learjet.
And I said, really?
He said, yeah, you brought in steaks for Dean Martin and his girlfriend.
And I remember, yeah, well, that's fine, charter.
And he jogged my memory.
I had been chartered out of Van Nuys to bring in fresh steaks and Dean Martin's girlfriend to a movie that he was filming in Tulsa.
That's great.
And Gabe remembered me from that.
That's amazing.
So...
We got in his car, and it was the most interesting evening, eight hours.
We were all lined around these little roads that was black as heck, you know?
We talked about all the banawets, Bernie Edwards, what's the guy's name?
Oh, Dodie, Moore, the whole thing.
It was just really an interesting drive.
We just talked, and we had some green chili at these little Mexican places.
It was fascinating.
Anyway, I got some sleep the next day, and then I had this rented car, and I tried to go up the Archuleta Mesa, because what I wanted to do was see the spot where the nuclear craft had crashed.
Because Gabe said, you know, as far as I know, it did.
He said, there was obvious, you can see the tree that it hit.
You know, we found a government pen up there.
There was all kinds of evidence that had happened.
But it was in the winter, and I had this two-wheel drive, and I tried to go up this...
This back road up in the Mesa, and I never went up in the canyon, so I never got up there.
So that wasn't guarded at that time?
No, I don't think it is today.
Oh really?
I don't know.
I can show you the place where I went to go up there.
Anyway, getting back to Vegas, I made contact with a person, and this person tells me the whole thing about...
Is his name Costello?
What was his last name?
The guy that worked at Dulcy?
Yeah, that sounds right.
There's Costello and there's Schneider who've come out of the public record.
And we talked for days, weeks, months, and this person gave me pencil drawings of what either she had seen in the video or Costello had described to her.
Those ended up were the Dulcy papers.
Those were my drawings.
As I mentioned on some thread the other day, the Dulce Papers text is posted on the internet, and that's what I typed from what the person who knew Costello told.
That's my typewriter.
That typewriter is out in the garage.
It's an IBM, what they call executive, and they have proportional spacing.
Right.
Those are my drawings.
I made ink drawings or pencil drawings.
I still have the pencil drawings.
I think the ink drawings I gave to Val.
I haven't seen them around, but they may be around.
I don't know.
I have so many files I have out in the garage.
Four-door cabins here, two or three, are just full of this stuff.
Now, why do you think you're left alone?
Why do you think you know so much, number one, and why do you think that the government leaves you alone?
They don't bother anybody with saying anything.
Exactly.
They got Phil because he was there.
I will forever rue the day of not giving Phil Schneider, you know, enough attention because he's right here, he sat right here, told me his story, and it's not that I didn't believe it, it's that, you know...
Yeah, well, maybe.
And it's too bad, because he did have the story.
I wish I would have given him more time than I did.
And that happened with another person.
I'll remember him for a second.
Another person that I didn't give that much attention to.
Oh, you guys.
He came here years ago and told me all that stuff.
And there's a guy I didn't believe.
Until later...
Dan?
Dan.
I sat here and I watched him two or three hours with the tapes and I thought, you know, that guy's been there.
Nobody can make that stuff out.
Now, the Dan Burry story is...
It's simple, but it's complex.
He was there.
He did work there.
I listened to George Knapp the other day, and I read his stuff on ATS, and he is so down on Dan Burrish.
You know, it's unfortunate.
Did you see my interview with Dan?
I just did an interview with him.
It's posted right now.
You should take a look at it.
It's actually almost two and a half hours of intense testimony.
He described Area 51 and S4. No question in my mind was there.
Right.
But now there's something that's happening to Dan and something they're doing with him and it all fits into Project Servo.
You think so?
I think that, you know, it's a big, long-range disinformation program.
But the bottom line is, Burish was up there.
He worked up there, you know, and it's really interesting.
It's two people, two bad people, you know, when they look on these stories, it's either right or it's wrong.
They can't know that there's some parts that are correct, some parts that are disinformation.
They want it, you know, left or right, You know, George Knapp, I've known him for years, and he's always, you know, he's got some good ideas.
I mean, he's done some tremendous work, you know, but he always seems to be about three years behind me.
It takes a while to understand this, to get into this stuff.
Well, how did you get into research?
Because, I mean, you were a pilot.
I mean, you had a lot of other things going on, but you really...
What was the trigger that really got you deep into this stuff?
I said that on the Internet.
I told them what happened.
It was across town, a friend of mine.
His name was Al Newell.
We were shooting buddies together.
In those days, IPSC was a big thing, International Practical Shooting Congress.
And we spent a lot of time together.
And I was over at his house, and there was a book on the table, and it was called A Missing Time by Bud Hopkins.
And I picked this thing up, and I, this is kind of interesting.
Because, see, I'd always been interested in science, but not that much.
As it turns out, my dad was righty.
I mean, my mom had a crush on Hoyt Vandenberg, one of the MJ-12s.
He was in the household thing.
So was Jimmy Dudo.
Dad was on the board of the Lovelace Clinic.
Granny Lovelace was a surgeon in Wright-Patterson when the Roswell thing happened.
They sent him to Albuquerque, where he was from, to do the Lovelace Institute.
The Lovelace Institute was where they did the autopsies of the bodies.
I mean, the whole group was, you know, my dad, Jimmy Dudo, Walt Vandenberg, all those guys were together.
Is your dad still alive?
No, he died in 1978.
He used to talk about this all the time, but not in too much detail.
He went down to Bogota in 1953 and made an announcement that he thought UFOs were real and made a thing.
And of course, MJ-12 came down and said, Bill, you can't say this about anything.
Well, I didn't tell him anything more than anybody else knew.
Yeah, but Bill, you can't do it.
Now, apparently he was into the anti-gravity stuff.
There's a video floating around three minutes on the internet that shows my dad giving a lecture with my mom standing behind him with pictures of saucers on the blackboard at the Bonson Institute to a group of scientists.
There's also more in that video that shows scientists working on Balsa wood and tissue things of UFOs doing, I don't know what, but there's a calendar and it's obviously somebody who's trying to tell us something at the calendar and the days are marked off and it's obvious to whoever made this videotape is telling us that it was important, something important was being developed or had to be developed.
So you saw this book on this table of your friend.
Oh, but Missing Time.
So I picked it up, and I read it, and I was just, absolutely, it just hit me.
This stuff is real.
It's real.
It's going on right now.
So, and I'm thinking this is like 85 or something.
At the exact same time, we had a reunion of Southeast Asia pilots here in Las Vegas, and I ran into one of the Ravens.
You know who the Ravens were?
Greg Wilson was a raven.
I got to talk to him.
Hey, where have you been?
He said, I was at Bentwaters.
They had Bentwaters.
Were you there in 1980?
He said, yeah.
I said, I was there.
He said, I didn't see Atlanta, but I know the guys who did.
I said, you mean it's real?
He said, yeah, John, it's real.
So then at the exact same time, I ended up, I was based in New York with this airline.
I called Bud Hopkins.
And I said, I'd like to talk to you.
Okay.
So I came back from a trip in Europe.
It was crazy.
I had my big suitcase and my flight bag and something else.
And instead of going to the apartment I lived in and dropping it off, I went to Bud's house.
So when I ring the doorbell, he opens it up.
He says, John, you?
And I said, yeah.
And he says, what's all that?
He was afraid I was going to come in and move in with it.
So anyway, I spent the evening with him, and he did a regression.
He said, you can't be this interested and not be involved.
And we didn't find anything.
But anyway, that started my friendship with Bud Hopkins.
And all this, it all happened at the same time.
Those were crazy years.
So you know Bill Cooper?
I mean, you seem to have known just about everybody who was anybody at the time.
Yeah, I was a working parent at the time.
Jim Spicer ran parent.
I put my...
I bought this on Paranet.
Then Bill Cooper called and he said, I can vouch for, and I forget what he said, 50% or 100% of what John Lear says.
And so then I invited Bill Cooper up.
He came up.
We talked.
He told me at those times Bill was totally saving the land.
He told me that he was the guy at Pearl Harbor who set up the camera and got the documents out of the safe for the briefings of the high level Navy guys who go through.
Five years later, he's an intelligence officer, you know, giving the briefing himself.
He wasn't.
He was just the guy in the office that set up the projector, and he did have the key to the safe, and he did read all that stuff.
But later, he got what we call UFO disease.
And UFO disease is something that we get that people were just...
So in demand as speakers, you know, and we've already told whatever we know, so now we've got to make up a little more to keep the interest.
Being, you know, in demand like that, it's addictive.
So you make up a little more, and that's called UFO disease, and that's what happened to Bill.
He started making stuff up.
About this time, Bob, I met Bob here in the summer of 1988.
Bob Lazar.
Yeah, sat right there with Gene Huff.
And Gene Huff had called me and he said, hey, can I get a copy of your UFO stuff?
And I said, Gene, I'm out of it.
My wife's, you know, going nuts.
I said, I just dropped everything.
He says, well, in case you ever need an appraisal on your house, maybe we could work a deal out.
I said, you're an appraiser?
And at that time, I needed an appraisal to get a second because I'm totally out of money.
He said, yeah.
I said, oh, well, listen, I'll give you all my stuff if you'll appraise my house.
And from that day on, he has always held that against me because he had no idea how big this place was.
And he claims he got the short end of the deal.
But when he came over, the guy that was holding the measuring tape was Bob Lazar.
And so Bob brought over his resume, and when I'm talking, he handed it to me.
And that's when I saw...
You know, the degree from MIT and the degree from Caltech.
But all that stuff, along with Benowitz's, some of his photos were stolen.
Out of your house?
Yeah, out of here.
I mean, they spent, who knows how much time they spent in this office digging stuff out of my file.
Wow.
All kinds of stuff was missing, as was at Bob's house, you know, and the people we, you know, we knew at, it wasn't called a sprint, but a telephone company that, you know, found Bob's house was wired, this house was wired.
Do you comb this house now?
Do you comb your house for bugs and things like that, or just don't bother anymore?
No, I don't bother.
But the telephone guy here who was sent to hell used to do a lot of switching around phones for my teenage daughters.
So one day he comes in about this time that I'm telling you about, and he says, John, your phone's tapped.
And I said, yeah, no kidding.
He said, you know, I'd like to find out where it is tapped.
And I said, hey, be my guest.
So he comes back about half an hour later, he says...
He said, it's not down Monroe or Hollywood or Bonanza.
He said, it's farther than that.
And he said, I'm going to find out.
I said, you know, you don't have to.
I said, I know it's tapped.
I said, don't worry about it.
He said, no, I'd like to find out.
So he comes back the next day.
John, your phone is tapped at the mainframe.
He said, I went to my boss and told him about it.
He said, if you want to keep your job, you'll keep your mouth shut.
Wow.
He said, so I'm keeping my mouth shut, but I'm telling you, it's tapped at the mainframe, and they don't have the paperwork.
He said, I looked for the paperwork to authorize a tab like that.
He said, they don't have it.
So, anyway, I meet Bob.
We talk.
He thinks me and Gene are totally nuts.
He said he worked at Los Alamos.
He said if there had been anything about UFOs, he would have known them.
He said, you guys are crazy.
And he sat there rolling his eyes at all the stuff we were talking about.
So, over the next few months, we started giving him information.
And one of the things we gave him was where we thought the alien was held at.
The facility was YY-2.
And it turns out, and we told him some other stuff, and I forget what it was, but there were three things we told him, and he confirmed all three things.
And he didn't confirm there was an alien at YY-2, but he did confirm it was a mail stop, and it was absolutely secret.
I mean, one of the big secrets.
He decided to see if he could get a job up at Area 51, so he called Dr.
Teller.
And I thought I was there for the phone call.
I may not have been.
I may have been there when Dr.
Teller called him back, but I remember Bob saying, Dr.
Teller saying, Do you want to work here at Livermore, or do you want to work in Las Vegas?
And Bob says, I want to work at Area 51, and Teller said, let me see what I can do.
So then, that was like in November of 88, and I remember Bob going for interviews at EG&G, and he told us exactly what they asked at the interviews, and it was very, very technical, and he He said he did really good at all of it, because he really knew what, and he was really proud of himself.
And he said the second interview, the first question was, what's your relationship with John Lear, and what do you know about him?
And Bob said, was talking to me, he said, I told him that I do know John Lear, I go over to his house, I think he sticks his nose in places where it doesn't belong.
He said what I didn't tell him is, I also like to stick my nose in places it doesn't belong.
Then the next thing I know is, I think, I say December 6th.
It could have been before or after, I remember, but this table wasn't here.
There was two chairs.
Chairs there.
He came in.
It was at night.
It was about 7 or 8 o'clock.
And he sat down.
I was writing checks.
He said, John, I saw a disc today.
And I looked up.
He said, what?
He said, I saw a disc today.
I said, there's RARs.
He said, there's.
I said, you want to area that you want?
I said, yeah.
I said, what are you doing here?
I said, you know, why did you find out what's going on and then tell me about it?
He says, no.
He says, you've taken so much crap over this thing.
I'm telling you, I saw it, it's all real.
So we spent, you know, a couple hours here and he said, I will answer your questions.
I can't volunteer information.
Then we went outside, stood outside, looked up at the stars, and I said, well, if I want to go to Zeta Reticulate, which way do I go?
He said, this way, and he was saying how they take off, and he had an explanation for why he had to go to the right first, or this way, or whatever it was.
Anyway, that went on for several months, and he'd come over whenever he got back and tell me what he saw.
One night he comes in, sits down, and after the first night, we didn't talk in here anymore.
I forget what the trigger was, but we didn't discuss anything.
So he's sitting there like this, giving the eyesight.
So we walked out that door, out by the pool, and out by the stable.
And as we walked by, Marilee, who was always suspicious of everything, says, where are you guys going?
And I think, we're just going to go out in the back and talk.
And so we went out in the back alleyway there, and I said, what, what, what, what, what?
And he said, John, you will never know what it's like to see your first alien.
I said, you saw him?
He was alive?
He said, yep.
And he told me the circumstances, and he was being let down a quarter and has four cards on each side.
I had the drawing here that when he told me that, There was a door.
He said it had a regular square window about 12 inches by 12 inches with the wire going through.
And inside he saw the back of the grave standing with the back cords and talking to scientists who were looking down like this and they had their laptop.
And so that was just an absolute thing.
And the story's going on.
You know, he was sort of, his house was trashed.
You know, he basically left the government's employ.
I mean, he was on the run, wasn't he?
Yeah, we go on, then it becomes...
He's going back and forth up there.
And so, March 21st, I'm over at his house, and he's designing a doggy death ray.
And a doggy death ray is because the dog, Merrilee's dogs, are getting in our flowers.
And he's going to design a little amplifier with a high-pitched sound, which would keep him out of there.
And it's Tuesday the 21st.
And I remember watching TV and it was the day they sent a missile from a boat and it did loop-de-loops.
And Bob said, they're going to testify tomorrow night.
Do you want to go see?
And I said, yeah, but where can we go?
He said, I know a back road to the test site without getting on a legal property.
You know, still on BLM. We can see it.
I said, great.
The next day, he and Jane and his wife, Jackie, I think there was four of us, get in my motorhome in the front here.
This was March 22nd.
We drive up to Alamo and turn off the road.
We're almost up that hillway, and the transmission went out.
And it's at night, and he said, well, I've got to be there at sunset, because that's when they test fly.
So Gene Hough hitchhiked.
From where we were stuck, back down to Eddie Springs, got a couple cans of transmission oil, brought them back up, we poured them in, and then we continued out.
So we got out there just a little after dark, and we went down the back road into Groom Lake, and we went down Maybe halfway.
And we pulled in this little area, and I took out the telescope, set it up.
Bob had the video camera, set it up.
And we started looking, and then we saw it.
It was like about 9 o'clock.
A light comes up and starts going this way and that way and everything.
And I'm trying to get this scope.
You know, and it's an 8-inch diameter lens focused on the UFO. And of course, you know, there's no way.
I mean, that thing is, you know, it's too big and too cumbersome.
But anyway, at one point, the saucer stopped, and I got it nailed in.
And I said, I got it, I got it, I got it.
And that's when I said it was a flying saucer.
It was about, oh, maybe 30 to 35, maybe 40, 45 degrees angle.
It was yellow and radiating something off it.
And I said, I see it, I see it.
And I said, Gene, quick, take a look.
And so as I stepped away, my foot hooked.
The tripod.
And it got out of it so Gene didn't get to see it.
What it was doing, it was making a descent behind the mountain.
Beautiful.
So then, I'll show you if we have time here.
I have a tape that's That's labeled March 22nd, and we videotaped all that was going on.
Unfortunately, the videotape was sitting on the bumper while all this was going on.
But we videotaped afterwards, you know, the conversation about, you know, seeing it.
Anyway...
The next Wednesday night, they always test it on Wednesday nights and at sunset because they determined that was the time of least traffic on that road that people could accidentally see the saucer.
So the next night was March 29th and I was on a trip with American Trans Air in Cleveland and that was when I called Bob Tuesday night, and I said, you know, I'm in Cleveland, I won't be able to...
I said, what are you guys doing?
He said, we're going fishing.
And I said, oh, cool, you know, I wish I could go.
That was the night he took George Knapp and Jim Taliani.
Jim Taliani worked at Tonopah Test Range, and that's the week after is when he got fired, because when this tape got out that George Knapp shot, they could hear Jim's voice saying, oh, neat, oh, neat, and they called him in, you know, and said, you're in.
It may not have been the next week, but then the third Wednesday was April 6th, and that was when me, Bob, Gene, Bob's wife and her sister, rented a car because the motor home was out and something else was out.
We actually had to rent a car and go up there and that's when we had the Geiger counter and all the video stuff and everything in the trunk.
We went up there, got all ready, we're driving in.
I said, come on, we don't need to go any farther.
Let's stop here.
No, no, let's get closer and closer.
Bob's wife's sister was driving, and that's when we saw, you know, I said at one time it was four cars, maybe it was two, or whatever, there was headlights in front of us.
And I said, we've got to get out of here.
So I told, I forget what her name is, turn around carefully, because we're in dust, you know, and sand here, and we don't want to get caught.
So, turned around, and we started, you know, all on ass.
It was obviously we weren't going to get to the highway before they caught us.
So we stopped.
Bob says, look, I can't afford to get caught.
I'm taking my gun.
He had a 9mm.
I'm going out in the desert.
And he said, when they leave, I'll come back.
So we stopped.
He goes out in the desert.
I take the telescope, start setting it up, and they skid to a stop.
And they're all standing around there with the machine guns and board arms.
And actually, I ran up to the vehicle.
I put my hands on the top of it.
What are you guys doing here?
What's going on?
And they said, we need to see my ID. And I said, yeah, I don't understand.
Well, what are you guys chasing us in the desert for?
And they said, well, what are you running for?
And so things calmed down.
We showed our driver's license.
They said, you know, they made some calls.
They said, look, we can't get out of here because it's BLM land.
But we make it awful uncomfortable if you stick around here.
So you have to make your own choice.
So they left.
We waited about 15 minutes.
The trunk was open because I had gotten a telescope out.
So we were kind of blinded.
We had no idea that all these guys did was go about 100 yards down the road, turn around, set up all their cameras and parabolic recording equipment, and they're recording everything that goes on.
Bob comes out of the desert with his 9mm.
He says, you know, it's a good day they made false moves.
I would have blasted a mother smothering.
So, we talk for about 15 minutes and then pack everything up and, you know, go out.
We hit the highway.
There's Lincoln County Sheriff.
Woo, woo, woo, all the sirens, red lights, everything.
Get us out, you know, hands up, hands against the car.
It's been about, you know, 15, 20 minutes.
I made the comment that Bob will never, ever forgive me for when the sheriff says, I'll need to see his licenses.
And I said, mine's in the trunk.
Of course.
Everything was in the truck, including the gun, the Geiger counter, all the video codes and everything.
We never let them in the truck.
He said, all I want to know is why are there five people in this car now?
And at the test site, they're only four.
And where's the gun?
That's all I want to know.
And we spent a good hour hemming and awning.
And at the end of the hour, he gets a call and he says, okay, his name is Lafrenet, Sheriff Lafrenet.
He said, I don't know why I've been told to do this, but I've been told to let you guys go.
Now, it doesn't make any sense to me, but those are my orders.
So he said, I want you to get in that car, and I don't want to see you ever around here again.
So we left, driving into town.
Now it's, you know, like 11 or 12 o'clock.
We discussed, you know, what was going on.
And the next day, Bob gets a call from his boss, and I'm trying to remember what his name is.
He says, Bob, don't go out to the airport.
I'm going to pick you up.
And drove Bob up to Indian Springs, which is the head of all the test sites.
And they literally took him out of the car with a gun in his ear.
And they took him in there and said, Bob, now, when we gave you a clearance, we've told you the secret.
It didn't mean you were supposed to be all your friends about the fire and sassies.
Now, do you want to work here or not?
And Bob was noncommittal.
They had brought the cards that had caught us, or talked to us down to prove that we were there.
And Bob was noncommittal.
And a few days later, he said, "I'm not going back to work there." And he said, why?
He said, because the last time I went on that 737, he said, I can remember going up the boarding ramp Oh, no.
We're coming back down the boarding ramp, but I cannot remember anything that went on after that, or between that.
He said, I don't want to work under those conditions.
I'd rather not work under those conditions.
Wow.
Even, you know, he said, I know what's going on, and it's great.
He said, but I don't want to work under those circumstances.
So that's why he came back.
Okay, well, that's fabulous stuff.
I have a question.
We met a guy that said underground in Area 51 that they, I don't know if the guy was like whacked out or what, but he said they have piles of like cocaine and they're drugging people, you know, to get them to work there, basically.
They fly them in, they give them drugs, they give them women.
Do you know anything about that?
No, but I have every reason to believe that's true.
I mean, the underground facilities up at Area 51 are so enormous.
They're so big.
They stretch on forever.
They have many levels.
I have a friend of mine, but the coal mine I operate, the people that...
Originally ran that mine, one of the guys is in jail up at Winnemucca, and one of the guys that's in there is a security guard, and he tells them, and the reason that security guard at Area 51 is in there is because he started to talk, and he's in there for life, but he tells the guy he's in there, and what can they do to him now?
And he said, you know, it goes on forever.
There's plenty of stuff like that.
There's no doubt in my mind.
See the stuff on Area 51.
Oh, I know guys that work there, and they said there's no underground.
Of course.
Because, you know, there's maybe 1,900 people who work above ground there.
There's no reason for that.
When you work at Area 51, they don't say, give you a briefing, and they say, now, you know, don't tell anybody about the aliens we got up here.
They don't do anything.
They're guys that, you know, work on, you know, airplanes and are mechanics.
They have no reason to know that stuff.
Security doesn't work that way.
I mean, is it your understanding that Benowitz was basically messed with through mind control?
Benowitz was on to some very good information, real information.
He's the one that discovered Dulce.
He's the one that knew about the black ship.
The great John Arch, let him say, he's the one that knew about the stuff.
The Manzanowicz.
Doty was sent to disinform him along with Bill Moore to make him look like an idiot.
And you knew Bill Moore, right?
Is that right?
Because Bill Moore has kind of gone black.
He's not out in public really right now.
I guess he was messed with a lot.
But he knows a lot as well, wouldn't you say?
Probably, yeah.
Yeah, at this point.
What about SERPO? So I understand on ATS you basically said SERPO is disinfo in general, but that yes, you know, we obviously sent astronauts.
I'm understanding that we did send a team.
They went to Zeta particularly.
There's three of them.
You know, that could be misinformation.
Who knows?
Maybe there was five, you know.
Right.
But...
The problem with Serpo, as we're seeing now, and with Burdish, is that there's male and females.
That's not right.
What do you mean, males and females?
I'm from Zeta Reticula.
You mean the aliens are male and female?
There are male and females.
Are you saying there aren't?
No.
They're cybernetic organisms.
The guys who made Those guys, which they call the J-Rod or the Grays or whatever, those guys are just cybernetic organisms.
They come here.
Their job is to see that this farm, I used to call it an experiment.
It's not an experiment.
It's a farm.
It's a soul farm.
Things are going along fine.
I used to think it was evil.
It's not.
We're just developing.
And those guys, the grays, are just here doing the monitoring work, seeing that everything's going okay.
They pick up kids when they're 3 to 4.
They pick them up when they're 7 to 8.
And then once at 13, be sure that everything's going okay.
And that's all their job.
Genetic manipulation, in other words, upgrading the race.
And right now we're arrogant, murderous, thieves, you know, and we learn to grow out of it.
And when we learn to grow out of that, we'll be able to go and play with everybody else in the universe, which is, you know, a great, big, wonderful place.
Where do you get your certainty from?
By what?
Your certainty about what you know.
You know what I mean?
Is it because you've talked to so many people who have been in deep?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But...
Have you yourself had any ET interactions that you know of?
Probably, but I don't have the slightest memory.
The only thing that ever happened was when I was 9 or 10 years old, I used to go down to, on Saturday mornings, to Brownie Brown's dance studio where I took tumbling, ballet, and tap dancing.
It would end at 12.
I'd walk outside the door to Ocean Park Boulevard, get on the bus, and go back to my house on 222 14th Street, which was about 30 minutes.
So one day, I get on the bus after dancing school, and I get to where I'm getting off at my house 30 minutes later, and I remember stepping off down How
much time was that?
Probably, you know, who knows, maybe.
I don't remember being conscious of, you know, one hour, two hours, but it had to be, you know, an hour or so.
Do you feel that the greys are malevolent?
No.
And are you aware that we're basically kind of building a shield around the planet to bounce off, you know, basically have a war with aliens and that sort of thing?
It's hilarious.
I mean, our government is so arrogant.
They know so little.
Here they are, they think they're going to build a shield against the greys or whoever.
There may be some kind of a war going on, but the basic theme, basically what Earth is all about is the development of the soul.
There's billions of us in the universe, billions of them, just like Earth.
In various stages of development.
Some of them are not as advanced as we are, some of them are more advanced.
But it's all about the solar and getting bigger, you know, not being such murderous, arrogant, you know, thieves and, you know, going on, we have to develop.
The sun is not a series of thermonuclear explosions.
The Sun is an electromagnetic sphere, and what it does is it reacts with the electromagnetics of certain planets, all the planets in the solar system, which enables them to have atmospheres and environments just like Earth.
Mercury is not hot enough to melt lead.
It's just like Earth.
Neptune is not a big gas giant.
It's just like Earth.
The only big gas giant in our solar system is NASA. I'm just talking about what they're trying to feed us now on Project Zero.
And the reason is, I believe, that there's no way the government can hide any more of the grays.
They have to come up with a story.
Right.
So since they don't know who they are or what they're doing, they just want to say, "Yeah, they're from Zeta Ritikin.
Yeah, we've been there.
Yeah, it's a mom and pop deal.
They play soccer.
We played soccer with them.
Yeah, it's no big deal." Yeah, except that they were doing genetic engineering and they took the parts of one astronaut and the body parts and were cloning him.
That's part of the Serpo story as well.
Yeah, well, a lot of people miss that.
Which astronauts?
One of the astronauts that died on Serpo was basically found to be cloned.
And supposedly they almost started a war over finding that they couldn't do last rites on the body of their fellow astronaut.
I mean, it's a great story, but who knows if it's true.
And I may be wrong.
I don't believe it.
It's disinformation because...
But we've been to Zeta Reticuli...
I mean, so the root of the story is actually true, I mean, as far as you're concerned, or maybe because of what your contacts are telling you.
Yeah.
Because there are some pretty deep-in people...
And I haven't seen, you know, the day is 90 or the hour is long.
I haven't seen that information.
Okay.
It's the fourth planet from Zeta Reticuli 2.
So if you're standing on Reticulum 4, you're going to see both suns, Zeta 1 and Zeta 2.
Wow.
Yeah, because apparently there are pictures of some things like that.
Great.
Now, are you saying that you don't believe there are pictures?
No, they could be.
Are you laughing because there could be?
No, they could be.
And what do I know?
Well, you seem to know a hell of a lot.
So we're just trying to kind of get to the root of what you know.
What about Bobby Ray Inman?
Do you know what his involvement is?
Oh, he's been involved in MJ-12.
Remember who Bob Exler was?
Bob Exler was really a neat guy.
I mean, he charged into this with me.
I mean, he stood right there in that door and saw some kind of a beam come out of this place back here.
We know, or I believe, that this whole mountain is combed with, you know...
That's quite a mountain you have behind you.
Yeah.
It's incredible.
We believe it's all, you know, all kinds of bases, or whatever they're called, inside those.
Sure.
It looks like it could.
Axler saw it.
Axler was the guy, and if you haven't read this story or heard it, you've got to read it, or he's back someday.
And I went with him and drove around.
For hours with him, when I was flying cargo, I'd get out of my airplane at 10 o'clock at night, and we'd drive until 6 in the morning.
We did all kinds of crazy things.
But Bob, one day, walked into EG&G. He says, how do I get into the saucer program, or something like that.
But what's Bobby Rabian?
Inman got to do with that.
Okay, so, that's what the letter said is.
So, Bob Exler...
Finds Bobby Ray Inman at some, you know, some public attendance, goes up to him and says, how do I get in touch with MJ-12?
And Inman looks at him and says, let me see if I can help.
And so that started the interaction between Why was Bobby Ray Inman so helpful?
Is he like a fan of disclosure, would you say?
Yeah.
There's always been part of MJ-12 that wants to disclose.
And they always get up to the threshold.
Well, let's tell the public something.
Then they always back away.
I don't know why they always back away.
Okay, I better get ready for this game, please.
All right.
It's really fabulous.
I mean, we want to thank you.
When I ask the right questions, I was afraid of what direction you were going to take, but, you know, I'm just telling the story of what happened.
That doesn't mean I'm writing, you know?
Sure.
It just means what I believe.
Thank you so much.
Oh, it's your point. it's your point.
Yeah.
I never heard some bullshit in my entire life.
I mean, that is just, if you'll excuse the expression, crap.
I mean, it's not going to happen.
It didn't happen.
It won't happen.
Well, are you familiar with Hal Pudov?
Sure.
Fantastic work at Stanford and University.
Well, he's involved in something to do with zero-point, though.
Absolutely.
That's his deal.
And he keeps telling, you know, sending all this stuff on zero-point energy.
And you just don't believe it?
No.
It's a scam.
You think so?
I mean, you think it's a scam because scientifically you think it's a scam or because people have told you your contacts are saying it's a scam?
No.
I think it's, and I'll take the blame if it's not.
I think it's a scam.
Huh.
What about 2012?
You think that's a scam?
Yes.
We're continually in wars, continually the world's going to end.
It's to keep us all riled up and worried and everything...
We just want to make a living and go home and be with our family and kids.
That's all we want to do.
But we're continually going after the Muslims, you know, and continually being, you know, this is a threat.
This is a threat.
If it's not, you know, gels and stuff like that, then it's, you know...
But for those of us that have been seeing it, hey, you know, it's all shit.
Joe Vanninetti made this, and again, it's just exactly like it was.
And here is the 115.
And Bob had three of these, and they came from Los Alamos.
And the government stole two of them.
And one of them is in a secret place in Vegas.
And I thought that me...
There was only three guys in the world that knew where it was.
And reading George's stuff on ATS, he claims to know where it was, and I don't know whether he does or not.
But that's the Haskill model.
And I've got the drawing that Bob made to me in February of 90 of how...
How it worked.
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