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Oct. 27, 2023 - Dr. Oz Podcast
42:41
Jon Gosselin Reveals What Happened with Kate and Their 8 Kids | Dr. Oz | S11 | Ep 67 | Full Episode
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Time Text
John and Kate, plus eights.
John Gosselin, the 10-year gag order finally lifted.
You believe Kate is an unfit mother.
Now, he's ready to reveal all.
She has a narcissistic personality disorder.
I have PTSD. There's a lot of stuff that happens, abuse-wise, mental and physical.
They offer me seven figures to stay married.
I can't be bought.
Plus, he turned in the Eurobomber, who happened to be his brother.
coming up next.
Are you ready for season 11?
In the wake
of reality show fame, John Gosselin has spent over a decade fighting a very public divorce and custody battle for his eight children.
Allegations of cheating, abandonment, abuse, and manipulation spread in the headlines.
But Jon couldn't legally respond.
Now the 10-year gag order has been lifted, and Jon is here to set the record straight, telling his truth like you've never heard it before.
John Gosselin, first famous as the father on John and Kate Plus 8, America's beloved reality TV show about a couple and their eight kids.
And then infamous after the couple divorced.
It was nasty.
Kate accused John of cheating and dealing drugs, while John accused Kate of torturing their kids.
John also made headlines for partying, even stripping at nightclubs, and womanizing.
But now, John has a serious girlfriend, and although he's estranged from most of his children, two of the sextuplets live with him.
In a recent Instagram post, John said he loves his life.
But with a gag order related to litigation with the network that ran his show Finally Lifted, will he spill any grudges against Kate?
Speaking out, for the first time on our show, please welcome John Gosselin.
Thank you.
So the audience was very excited to visit with you today.
Lots of questions.
Your name evokes that.
And it was important for you to be here as well, to set the record straight.
Why?
I think, well, I had the gag order for 10 years.
And, you know, that was put in place by, well, one, TLC. And then Family Court as well to protect the kids.
Seems reasonable.
Yeah, it was reasonable.
But then it just kind of dragged out as they got older.
And then rumors were cropping up anyway.
But...
It got to a point where I couldn't defend myself because Kate's show continued.
And it just got super difficult.
And I didn't have a platform.
So I really didn't have a voice.
What's your relationship like with your ex-wife Kate now?
We don't have a relationship right now.
So we don't talk.
Nothing.
It's very nothing.
The only time I see my ex-wife is in court because we've exhausted all opportunities to co-parent.
Like it's just never going to happen due to personality disorders and everything else.
We just have different aspects on how we want to parent.
And moving forward, you know, my twins are 19 years old now, and my sextuplets are almost 16. So we're moving down the path of, you know, two more years, we're gonna have all adults.
So a lot of folks who've watched your story carefully, and that's a good part of the U.S. population, see you as the villain.
That's how it's come across.
I was portrayed as the villain because Kate asked for the divorce and they needed a reason, TLC or the network needed a reason to explain to the public what was going on.
So she asked for the divorce in 2009. I left the show, there was nine months hiatus, and then we were already divorced, and then the paparazzi started taking pictures of me dating other women and all this stuff, but on TV it was shown as me being married.
So the public was being fooled because on television I'm married, but in reality I'm already divorced.
Take me back to the beginning.
Whose idea was the show in the first place?
Was that you or Kate?
Kate's decision.
Kate came to you and said, honey, I've got an idea, or someone called us.
How did that start?
She called me at work and said they want to film a one-hour documentary on Discovery Health.
And then the reality show came into effect.
She called me and Mark and they, they want to film a reality show.
So I said, well, if it's going to pay the bills, let's just see how it goes.
And then we'll go from there.
And we're still on Discovery Health.
We're not on TLC yet.
So our first season was eight episodes.
Our second season was 12. Our third season was 40 episodes.
And then our fourth season was 52 episodes.
Let me give people some numbers on this.
I looked it up.
The height of its reality show, John and Kate Plus 8, was attracting 10 million viewers per week.
For comparison, most big primetime network sitcoms today are not pulling in those numbers.
I'm interested in some of the conflicts that happened because of the show.
I understand its success.
But were there blurred lines?
Was it sometimes hard to tell where the family ended and the show began?
Oh, absolutely.
I mean, I remember one time, February, I would say February 2008, we filmed every single day except for two.
There we got to points where I was pushing camera crew out of our house.
And then the network would come down and say, you have to film.
And I would say, no, I don't.
So I was always the heavy, and then Kate would be like, you're gonna get us fired.
And I'm like, I don't care if we get fired.
Like, this is ridiculous.
This is not my job.
This is not my career.
This is my life.
Like, I don't need cameras in my house all the time.
And, you know, it was getting very commercialized where we said, oh, we, for instance, I want to use Pampers, but we want you to use Huggies because of advertising.
You know, and all those kind of things.
And I'm like, well, I want to use what's best for my kid, not what's best for the network.
So little things started to play in an effect and commercialize and branding and marketing and all these things, which also started driving wedges on our marriage because she was like, no, we have to do what they say.
And I'm like, no, I'm doing what's best for our kid.
You start to live two different lives.
Do you think your marriage would have remained intact if it wasn't for the cameras?
You know, a lot of people ask me that, and it's hard to live in a hypothetical.
But I think eventually, because of personality, it would have fizzled out anyway.
Because, first of all, I got married at 22 years old.
And you just don't know, you know?
And you mentioned earlier, repeated it now, that there was a personality issue.
What is the personality issue?
Whose is it?
Is it...
Is it you?
Is it Kate?
What's the problem?
Well, I think it's both of us.
But I think she has a narcissistic personality disorder.
Narcissistic?
Yep.
I think she tends to think more on her level selfishly instead of for others.
I think I tend to think sometimes more for others than for myself.
So I tend to not worry what's going on with me when I should sometimes.
But I also think That I tend to look more towards my kids and what's the best for them, once I had them.
But I also feel I'm passive aggressive, which I got from my father.
So I only learned all this stuff.
I went through tons of therapy.
I still go to a therapist.
So let's go back to Kay for a second.
So even before the cameras were coming in, did you perceive an issue?
She's narcissistic, you're saying.
You're passive aggressive.
Those things don't tend to go together well.
Were you already having issues?
I didn't really notice those personality disorders until after filming.
Fame and money.
And I think fame's worse than money.
How did the fame make it worse?
Fame is different only because things are given to you.
You're held to a higher standard.
You're put on a pedestal.
The attention.
It's almost like a drug, like an addiction.
Once you have that and that lifestyle, you can see certain tendencies in people.
It feeds and feeds and feeds.
So you're struggling along.
The show is airing, doing incredibly well in the ratings.
Oh, huge.
And you want to pull back from filming and you start having marriage issues to the point that you want a divorce.
How did the network respond to that?
Well, Kate wanted a divorce.
So she came to me...
It came all from her?
Yes.
She wanted a divorce.
She asked me.
She didn't want to be married anymore.
Why?
Because I didn't want to film anymore.
I wasn't part of the business model anymore.
She was going to divorce you because of the filming?
That's correct.
Not because of your passive aggression or not helping with the kids?
No.
I stayed home.
She was on speaking tours.
So she was traveling with her bodyguard.
She was going on speaking tours.
I was home with the nanny and watching the kids and doing all the kids stuff.
Did she think you were having an affair?
Not with the nanny at that point.
We had the same nanny for three years.
She thought I was having an affair after, like, during separation in 2009. Which I wasn't, no.
You were not having an affair?
No.
Until you got divorced, did you have an affair with anyone?
No.
Nope.
She approaches you.
She wants a separation.
What did you say?
It was out of the blue, too, because I was sitting at the dining room table, and I was just like, what are you talking about?
She's like, I'm done.
I don't want this anymore.
You don't want to film.
You don't want to go along with my plan and filming and the kids and this and the house.
And I'm like, nope, I don't.
And you know what's funny?
The network thought I was nuts.
They actually hired me a therapist and a psychiatrist, and they psych-evalued me.
Why did they think you were nuts?
Because I would give up millions of dollars not to film and just go live a normal life.
I said enough was enough.
And then I didn't understand why they kept on doing this.
And then I found out we made them $186 million a quarter.
When you're making, you know, $186 million a quarter for a company, you can't just go quit.
So the CEO's got to explain to their shareholders, the president, why the shares dropped.
Because I took the show off the air.
I literally hung a sign on my gate saying, if any crew members show up, I'll have you arrested for trespassing.
They sued me for breach of contract.
I pretty much bankrupt myself.
But I did for moral reasons, obviously.
I've spent $1.7 million in lawyer's fees.
From when TLC sued me and my divorce.
Kate, on the other hand, TLC paid for her attorneys in the lawsuit and for her divorce.
So I financed it by myself and she was financed by the network.
And I didn't understand at first why But now I understand why.
All she wanted was legal custody to fill my kids, to sustain her lifestyle and their lifestyle.
See, it gets all warped.
That's fame, though.
See, it just twists things around, thinking that you have to sustain the whole thing.
All right, so we reached out to TLC for a statement and they did not get back to us in time for taping.
When we come back, John directly addresses the allegations of abuse between Kate and their son, Colin, who she says has special needs, including a look at the so-called escape letter that his son wrote.
He was a child predator who moved into my neighborhood.
Any kind of abuse that you can think of, he did to me.
I figured I would escape with my life or with my death.
Plus, Sopranos star Lorraine Bracco talks true crime.
These stories are really shocking.
A realtor.
It was night.
She was alone.
Lured to her death.
What goes on next is pretty horrific.
All new awesome.
That's coming up tomorrow.
We're back with John Gosselin, who rose to fame on the reality show featuring his family, John and Kate Plus 8. So, you've made some very serious allegations about Kate, specifically regarding your son, Colin.
This is important.
I want to talk about Colin because it's sort of an example of the conflict the two of you have had.
Do you believe that Kate is an unfit mother?
Well, I believe...
That her belief system is skewed.
That's what I believe.
I believe her intentions in the beginning were good intentions.
Bringing kids into the world.
That she fought to have these kids.
But I think once fame and money got involved, it twisted her belief system.
On my end, I've been fighting to get my kids off TV forever.
Now, you know, my son's been to therapists.
He's been in institutions.
This is Colin.
This is Colin.
He's diagnosed with...
He has five different diagnoses.
He's on medications.
He goes to therapists.
He goes to traumatologists.
He goes to all these doctors and psychiatrists.
And all these things, all because of his mother, diagnosed, and television, diagnosed, proven by...
Um, professional people with over 20 years experience, you know, and, you know, um...
I mean, how can I argue that?
What's the diagnosis they've given him that's forcing him to be in institutions against his will?
Well...
He's age 12, right?
Right.
So she, Kate, institutionalized him without a diagnosis and then created a diagnosis.
I pulled him out of the institution.
He was wrongfully institutionalized.
He did not need to be in an institution.
Just because he was a difficult child did not mean he needed to be sent away.
Against my will, against my right.
I did not know where he went.
And it took me two and a half years to find him.
And then it took me an extra year to get him out.
John, how is it possible you did not know where your son is?
You have custody over these children.
I had physical custody and not legal at the time.
And the only way I found out that I knew where Colin was is Colin wrote a letter and his roommate smuggled it out.
His roommate called my manager.
My manager vetted the roommate because you never know.
It could be anyone.
Right.
And that's how I found out that where Colin was.
Can I show everyone the letter?
Yeah.
I'll put it up for everyone to see.
I'm just going to read a couple parts of it.
This is handwritten in crayon.
This is a picture of the escape letter, so-called.
It says, I'm not trying to trick you, but I still love you.
I told mom I want to live with you, but she said no.
And then later on, two sentences down, she says, she was abusive to me after I left your house.
I'm sorry.
I'm counting on you to get me out of here.
It's painful to read that from a 12-year-old.
Yep.
How did you feel when you saw that crayon-written letter of desperation?
It was heartbreaking.
And I was actually in the airport in Mexico when it was sent to me.
And I felt like, we've got to figure this out.
So once I got joint legal, I presented the letter to the judge.
Obviously, he was like, this is crazy.
We asked Kate, where is he?
She wouldn't tell him.
I said, I don't need to know.
I have the letter now.
And...
I called the special needs facility.
They said, Mr. Gosselin, we'll do anything you want.
You can be fully involved.
I got my car.
I drove to him.
First time I saw him in three years.
What was that like seeing your son?
Oh, man, I cried.
He was different because he was on, like, Thorazine and, like, all these medicines, like, all doped up.
He weighed, like, his picture is now, he weighed 75 pounds more And what you see now, because he was tranquilized most of the time.
And how is he doing now?
He's a straight student.
He's in JROTC. How is that possible that he went from being institutionalized on Thorazine, and again, I'm saying this according to you because I can't validate this, to living home normal with you.
Love.
Now, we created a family environment for him.
I visit him in Pittsburgh twice a month for a year.
Now, my girlfriend is a nurse practitioner on mental health.
She's a psych NP. So, I learned all that.
I work in a clinical healthcare system.
I'm the IT director of a clinical...
So, I had to learn all this stuff.
But with love...
Oh, yeah.
Like love.
That's it.
And just caring about a human that I haven't...
Like, I had to have reconnection therapy because I don't know anything about him.
So I had to learn all this stuff.
All right, so we reached out to a representative for Kate for comment, and they did not get back to us in time for taping.
We'll be right back.
We're whipping up the ultimate Oz-approved Thanksgiving feast.
The secret to cooking this bird is under an hour.
From main course, sides, to dessert.
How do you make a good homemade pie crust?
It's easy.
That's coming up on Wednesday.
We're back with John Gosselin.
He's speaking out like you have never heard before with his side of the story.
So, John, was this all worth it?
I mean, I listened to the story.
I mean, it tells like this in the Bible of people who go up and down.
You're in a place where you're comfortable making a lot of money.
You weren't happy with the filming.
The family is still destroyed despite your effort to protect it by not filming.
Well, your father, this is your legacy.
You'd do anything for your kid.
I don't have anything else.
I have my kids, and what I know to teach them, and that's about it.
Even on that, you have two of the kids with you, right?
The other six you're estranged from.
Well, every year I get a new kid, so I'm always hopeful.
And now our custody agreement is between the children, and now we have a guardian ad litem, who intermediates everything.
Why would Kate want there to be a rift?
Between you and the kids or even between the kids?
Because she wants to be right.
Everything she says, she wants to be right.
So if she lies, she wants them to believe her lies.
It's narcissistic personality disorder.
Someone said to me a long time ago, you marry, you know, you marry your mother, the girls marry their father.
So I'm hoping It's so hard.
I don't want my boys to marry a narcissistic person and be bossed around and be just pushed down and stuff like that.
I want to have a relationship with my other boys, Joel and Aiden.
Did you feel pushed around?
Oh, now that I look at what I... Yes, absolutely.
Absolutely.
That person before and John and Kate Plus 8 to now, I'm like who I was before I met Kate.
And then I kind of just kind of fell into a role.
What did you love the most about her when you first met?
Goal-oriented.
Someone that knew what she wanted.
I think that she's task oriented and stuff like that.
So why rule out the possibility of co-parenting with Kate?
Because my kids will be adults in two years.
And I think once that mindset's set, now you're going to move into a more therapeutic role.
We all go to family therapy because I have to reparent my kids because there's a lot of stuff that happened abuse-wise, mental, and physical.
So...
Even though they're 15, they might be like 12, mentally.
What was the abuse in your mind that hurt them the most?
Oh, the mental abuse, the parent alienation, just the put-downs.
Isolation is a huge one.
So I make them join clubs and go to dances and football games and all this stuff.
You brought up the fact that we're both fathers.
Yes.
So let me give you some fathering advice, but also with some doctor's wisdom.
When the cameras stop rolling, and they always do, and they already have for you, you're left with one big question.
At the end of the day, was I a good father?
Did I do my job?
And kids will not and cannot thrive if they don't feel safe.
So your ultimate goal has to be to protect them.
I know you're arguing that you've done everything for them for that purpose, but the way you deal with Kate and the alienation issues and the way you're dividing the kids up are all part of that safety net.
I don't see it as an intact one right now.
And you're going to have to find a path to go to that battleground.
You can't fix the legal system.
and what you can fix is how you and Kate deal with each other as adults.
We'll be right back.
Thank you.
Up next, Ted Kaczynski, better known as the Unabomber, spawned one of the longest-running and most expensive manhunts in U.S. history with a 17-year reign of terror.
Today, I'm sitting down exclusively with the one man who was the key to the Unabomber's undoing, his own brother, David Kaczynski.
On today's True Crime, we're asking, what was it that made the Unabomber tick?
Ted Kaczynski's rampage spawned one of the longest-running and most expensive manhunts in U.S. history with a 17-year reign of terror.
For nearly two decades, he managed to outsmart and outrun the law, all while creating makeshift bombs that erupted from mail packages left at homes and offices, universities, even on planes.
Kaczynski's bombing campaign terrorized the country and left many people severely disfigured with cuts, burns, loss of sight, missing fingers.
But these men would ultimately lose their lives.
Who were his targets and why?
Today we're exclusively talking with the one man who was the key to the Unabomber's undoing.
David Kaczynski is here speaking out on what it took to turn in his own brother.
Take a look.
Theodore Ted Kaczynski was born and raised in Illinois.
He graduated high school at 15 and received a bachelor's degree at age 20. He earned his master's and doctoral degrees in mathematics from the University of Michigan.
He became the youngest assistant professor of mathematics at University of California, Berkeley.
He resigned in June of 1969. In 1971, Ted moved to a remote cabin outside Lincoln, Montana.
He lived with little money and no electricity or running water.
Between 1978 and 1985, Ted mailed or delivered 16 bombs, which killed three men and injured 23 people.
Before it was known that Ted Kaczynski was behind the bombings, the FBI used the acronym UNIBOMB, University and Airline Bomber, to refer to the case.
The media dubbed him the UNIBOMBER. The FBI built a task force of over 150 full-time personnel, and a $1 million reward was offered for information.
Ted mailed his 35,000-word manifesto entitled Industrial Society and its Future to the New York Times and the Washington Post with demands that if it was not published, he would send a bomb to an unspecified location.
The papers agreed to publish it on September 19, 1995. David Kaczynski, Ted's younger brother, read the manifesto and pointed the FBI to his brother.
FBI agents arrested Ted at his cabin on April 3, 1996. They found bomb pieces, one live bomb, and 40,000 journal pages.
In April 1996, a federal grand jury indicted Ted Kaczynski on ten counts of illegally transporting, mailing, and using bombs, and three counts of murder.
In a 1998 plea deal, Ted pled guilty to all charges to avoid the death penalty.
He is serving eight life sentences without the possibility of parole in Florence, Colorado.
Joining me in an exclusive interview is David Kaczynski, the Unabomber's younger brother.
I thank you for being here and for being brave all those years back.
But I do want to get into how this all came about.
Sure.
It's been 23 years.
23 years since you had to make that big decision.
What has it been like being the Unabomber's younger brother?
Well, in the beginning there was this tremendous ethical dilemma that we faced.
Any decision we make could lead to somebody's death.
If we do nothing, and it is my brother and some other person is killed, we'd have to go through the rest of our lives with the blood of an innocent person on our hands, knowing we could have saved their life.
Before you go on with that part, I'm actually sort of curious.
What was he like as a child?
What was it like having an older brother like Ted Kaczynski?
Yeah, he was seven and a half years older and I really looked up to him because all the kids in our school called him a brain and he was very smart.
At one point they tested his IQ and it was 165, well into the genius level of IQ. But he was also kind to me.
Despite all that, your mother told you, when you were both still young men, that you need to look out for your older brother.
Why would she say that?
What was her concern about Ted?
It actually began with a question from me.
I think I was maybe eight or nine years old.
And I remember going to mom one day and saying, Mom, what's wrong with Teddy?
Teddy doesn't seem to have many friends.
Why is that?
She said, Teddy has a fear of abandonment.
Whatever you do in this life, David, don't ever abandon your brother because that's what he fears the most.
And of course I'm saying, well, Mom, I love Teddy.
Of course I'd never abandon him.
Oh my goodness.
So at some point, Teddy becomes estranged from the family.
Yet he chose this path, effectively becoming an evil genius.
Ted meticulously built his homemade bombs to be untraceable.
Up next, David's brother Ted embarks on a murderous rampage for two long decades and becomes known as the Unabomber.
What did it take for David to turn on his own flesh and blood?
Those shocking details and more.
Stay with us.
We're back sitting down in an exclusive daytime interview with David Kaczynski, the younger brother of the Unabomber, Ted Kaczynski.
David was instrumental in ending the nearly two-decade manhunt against his brother's bombing campaign.
So, you read the newspaper, New York Times, Washington Post, that had been forced to publish this manifesto from the Unabomber.
At what point did you realize, oh my goodness, that's my older brother Ted?
At first, I was very dismissive.
I didn't think it was possible.
Ted had never been violent.
And I think, more than anything, it was just a sense of the voice is the same, but I still didn't know, am I projecting this fear?
Or am I in denial?
There was one phrase that sort of jumped out at me.
I remembered it from one of Ted's letters where he talked about Modern philosophers as not quite qualifying as what he termed cool-headed logicians.
And that phrase seemed unusual.
It is unusual.
And I thought, well, gee, if it's in one of his letters and it's in this manifesto, maybe it could be my brother.
So your mother had charged you with not abandoning your brother.
Sure.
And you have to go tell her...
That you're worried he's the Unabomber and that you've turned him in.
Right.
How did that conversation go?
Oh, I was terrified.
Actually, you know, I tried to sort of ease into it, but Mom was very bright, and I had to say, Mom, I think Ted might possibly be involved in these bombings.
She walked up to me without saying a word.
She put her arms up around my neck.
She pulled me down.
She put a kiss on my cheek.
And she said, David, I can't imagine what you've been struggling with.
Oh, my goodness.
And then she said what I really, really needed to hear from her.
She said, David, I know that you love Ted.
I know that you wouldn't have done this unless you truly felt that you had to.
Very wise woman.
Ted Kaczynski's bombings were acts of domestic terrorism.
He actually targeted academics, business executives in technology, marketing, advertising.
In his private journals, he said his motive was simply personal revenge.
To this day, your brother has not shown remorse for his actions that I'm aware of.
Does he know that you are the one who turned him in?
Yes, apparently he found out about that very quickly.
How did he react to learning that his brother was the reason he was finally caught?
He has refused to communicate with me since that time.
So Ted Kaczynski is now 77 years old.
He'll spend the rest of his lives in jail.
Many people think he should have received the death penalty.
Listening in is Bill Pelkey.
Bill, please join us.
He's the founder of Journey of Hope.
He and David formed a friendship around a common goal.
The common goal is interesting.
It's to help people heal after violent traumas.
And many times folks search for revenge.
It's very understandable, right?
But it blinds us.
You oppose the idea that that's the best path.
In fact, you argue forgiveness is the wisest way to get through life.
What does justice mean to you?
Justice means to me love and compassion for all humanity.
When I heard Bill articulate those very words, Bill's grandmother was murdered, so he knows what it's like to be on the victim's side.
I just felt, oh my gosh, he's got the answer.
Please share your story.
I understand that the perpetrator could have had the death penalty.
Well, there were four young girls involved in my grandmother's murder, 9th grade students.
A 15-year-old girl by the name of Paula Cooper was sentenced to die in the electric chair by the state of Indiana.
And I originally supported that decision, but I became convinced a short time later that's not what my grandmother would have wanted.
And I learned that the answer was love and compassion for all humanity.
And that young woman did not go to the electric chair?
No, she was sentenced to death, but she actually got out after about 28 years.
And you're okay with that?
I was fine that she got out.
However, she had two years parole when she got out and two and a half weeks before the parole was up she committed suicide.
I'm very sorry.
But it's remarkable that you found that space in your heart because for many there's a struggle.
Have you stayed in touch with any of the victims of your brother's bombings?
Yeah, actually, one of the victims, a man named Gary Wright, befriended me.
And we became very close friends, and in fact, at my brother's sentencing, in his victim impact statement, Gary looked at my brother straight in the face and said, Ted, I forgive you, because if I didn't, I would just be kindling to your cause.
And we remain very close friends to this day.
Good for him, good for you.
And congratulations on the journey of hope.
If you want to learn more about this organization, please visit their site.
We've been talking about the power of one all season long.
I think David showed his power by making one of the hardest choices anyone could make, turning on a family member, a member of your own family.
And for that reason, I think you're a true American hero.
And your mother was right.
It must have been incredibly difficult, which makes what you did that much braver.
So God bless you.
We'll be right back.
Today, a big investigation is something that science has yet to explain.
Can children have psychic abilities?
One mother says her nine-year-old talks about ghosts that will not leave her alone.
We're asking the question, can kids see and communicate with spirits?
Or is it extreme empathy or maybe mere coincidence?
What is really going on?
Take a look at what Kendall has been going through for the past two years.
Hi, my name is Denise.
And my daughter Kendall is nine years old and has the gift of psychic abilities.
My husband and I adopted Kendall and her brother Tyler when Kendall was four and a half, but at seven years old her whole life changed.
This is where I saw my first baby.
I called them the gray people because they were in black and white.
One night she came to me and she said she saw these people and they were gray and they were staring at her and they had a bonnet.
The girl had a bonnet and like a sort of apron and the boy had like an overall.
And they were dirty, dirty clothes and no shoes.
Again, no shoes.
One night She would not use her bathroom, so she came across the hall to use mine.
And as soon as I spoke, the lights in the bathroom started to flicker and flicker.
The cable box started to go off like a disco ball.
She jumped in my bed.
She slept with us every night for a very long time.
Every night, when I say my purse, please don't bother me.
I had no idea what to do.
There's no number to call to get help.
He messed around with me too much tonight.
Leave me alone.
Kendall is backstage with her mom.
They asked us to put them in touch with counselor and medium Anna Ramondi, who's joining me as well.
So, you believe that all children are born with psychic abilities.
Absolutely.
They're so close to the spirit realm since they're new on this earth, and they're innocent.
So they're not judging what's coming through.
They're just accepting it and kind of letting it flow through them.
You met with Kendall backstage.
What is going on in her life?
What's going on with her?
She definitely has something going on.
She's able to see and feel.
She's kind of developing it.
I feel like she's in development.
It will probably go a lot further with her because I think she wants that to happen.
I'd like to meet Kendall and her mom.
Denise, come on out if you're okay.
Welcome to the show.
Thanks for being here.
Denise, tell us about the first time that Kendall mentioned seeing spirits to you.
She was sitting on the sofa with the covers up to her neck and the fear in her eyes would have put you through the roof.
And then your child's telling you that she's sleeping with a crucifix because she sees things that you can't see.
Oh my goodness.
So, Kendall, you drew some pictures here that you brought to show us.
Can you explain what these pictures are and maybe speak to some of the things your mom is saying?
Well...
Who's that?
The first one, I call them the gray people.
The gray people?
The gray people.
And I was in my mom's bed looking out the window and I saw them.
Well, they were outside.
Were they scary or...?
They just stared at me.
They just stared?
They just stared.
Oh my goodness.
And you have other spirits here as well.
This one looks a little eerier.
Is that sort of a skeleton?
Yeah, it's a skeleton.
And this last image, which is scary to me.
This is the scariest.
So Kendall, I'm told that you're able to look at objects and Try to, if you can, I just picked these randomly.
Identify their history or a little bit about who used to have them.
And you can pick anyone you wish and see if any energy comes to you.
And I don't know whose these are, but...
It's an older wallet.
Any thoughts on this wallet?
Um, I started getting back pains and I started, like, my stomach started to, like, hurt really bad.
Was it crampy pain, your stomach?
So, stomach pain and back pain.
Whose wallet is this?
Well, take the mic if you can.
Sorry.
It's your son's?
Yes.
How is your son now?
He passed away four months ago.
Oh, I'm sorry.
There's such pain in holding this wallet, okay?
Such pain.
You know he's okay, you know?
He's actually happy that you held on to this, because this wallet is full of his energy.
And he's sorry.
His last words were mom.
But I felt that he couldn't finish the sentence.
That was it.
The next day he passed away.
He just wanted to say he loved you and he was thankful.
What did you lose your son from?
Liver cancer.
Did you feel something in her stomach?
Yeah.
And sometimes back pain from that.
Liver cancer can do both.
I'm very sorry for you.
I hope what Anna said is helpful to you.
Thank you.
Yes.
Thank you.
Well I thank you very much for sharing your stories with us.
We'll be right back.
We're back.
When David met Siris, they were just three years old.
By nine, they were holding hands.
By 15, they were dating.
And now, in his senior year of high school, David wanted to find a romantic way to ask his girlfriend to homecoming.
Their homecoming proposal video has been viewed by thousands of people and has really made an impact.
David and Cerise's lifelong friendship blossomed into high school sweethearts, holding hands, going on dates, and talking on the phone for hours.
Cerise has always been the one David takes to special events.
This year, when asking Cerise to homecoming, David wanted to make it memorable.
While Cerise was cheerleading at a game, David showed up arms full of sunflowers and balloons.
And he even got down on one knee.
I'd never know.
Joining us via Zoom is the adorable couple David and Cerise, along with their mothers, Wanda and Marilyn.
Thank you.
David and Cerise, did you have a chance to dance a lot at the homecoming?
Yes, I did.
Let me ask the mom's question.
As parents, what's been the best part of seeing their relationship prosper and grow?
When you get a Down syndrome diagnosis, you always worry about what their future will be like.
And it's pretty amazing to see them have an amazing life.
They have a special connection and they really support each other in their activities.
Well, I'm very proud of the wonderful parenting job both of you have done.
David, on your sign you wrote, will you be my sunshine?
But thousands of people saw that, and you were their sunshine.
That is the power of one.
Bless you all.
It takes a village to raise remarkable human beings, and that's exactly what these two families have done.
And remember everybody, the power of one, it lies in you.
Just one person with one voice speaking the truth.
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