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Oct. 27, 2023 - Dr. Oz Podcast
41:42
Doctor Busted for Trying to Murder His Enemy with Lethal Drugs | Dr. Oz | S11 | Ep 88 | Full Episode
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Time Text
An evil doctor out for revenge.
He said he had these fantasies of kidnapping me, injecting me with fentanyl, setting me on fire, and killing me.
Plus...
Could Jeffrey Epstein have been stopped?
I had heard that the police called him, and they believed him over me.
Coming up next.
Season 11 starts now.
Today, a twisted prescription for revenge.
A plan to murder an enemy by injecting him with fentanyl.
Just a minuscule drop, a tiny bit of this drug, can kill you in seconds.
No, this wasn't a hit ordered by the mob, but by a doctor who wanted revenge, no matter the cost.
Dr. Daniel Schwartz has been a practicing physician for over 25 years, specializing in pain management in Michigan and Ohio.
Schwartz reached out to one of his patients, a woman who had been struggling with a meth addiction with a different kind of prescription, a prescription for revenge.
He wanted to get back at this man, Michael McCulloch.
A lawyer who had countersued the doctor for $60,000 and won.
Schwarz was still angry about the settlement and intended to pay McCulloch back in a very different way.
According to the patient, Schwarz first suggested she kill McCulloch with a gun with a silencer.
Then he decided on death by fentanyl and Xanax.
It would be done by what he called a brush pass, where someone would inject McCulloch while bumping into him.
Schwarz instructed the patient to buy a throwaway phone and use encrypted messaging apps after agreeing to pay her $2,000 to pull off the hit.
The doctor also had plans to frame his own attorney for the murder by planting the drugs in his car.
As Schwarz's plans became more specific, the patient grew worried and reported the information to Ohio police, who contacted the FBI. And what their undercover investigation revealed was even more terrifying.
Michael, the lawyer who Dr. Daniel Schwartz intended to murder, joins us now.
Well, I'm glad he did not succeed.
Thank you.
But I must say, I read this story, it was all over the press, and I was stunned.
Now, you met Dr. Daniel Schwartz.
If I understand, you were representing the Condo Association.
He was having a dispute, so your first impressions of this physician well-known in the community were what?
Well, I was contacted by the community because they said one of their owners was having a problem in his basement or his foundation, and they tried very hard to make him happy.
And so they sat down with him for a number of hours, and he would go through and give a laundry list of things he wanted done around the condo, you know, a bigger patio, remove some trees, really didn't have much to do with his basement.
And so they brought the case to me and they said, would you handle it?
And I handle special projects, so I got involved.
During this legal dispute with Dr. Schwartz, you were able to learn a bit about his past.
What was his previous legal history?
During the course of the lawsuit, we hired a medical expert, and we went through his resume.
And the medical expert said, there's something wrong here.
There's something that doesn't stack up.
He said, this guy is highly trained, but he can't hold a job.
So as a result, I did some digging, and I found there was a case involving Loyola University in Illinois, where he was brought on as a surgical resident.
Didn't last a month, and they got rid of him for unprofessional behavior and so forth.
And there's a reported case out there where a federal judge details the history, and thank goodness to the Loyola lawyers, they did a great job looking at his past, and they determined that he was not qualified for the job, and they got rid of him within a matter of weeks.
So all through this, Daniel is blowing through different attorneys, three in particular, while fighting the Condo Association.
This is before a judge decided to throw the case out.
So, obviously you feel wronged.
You've spent money to defend the Condor Association.
You countersue Dr. Schwartz.
Yes.
Did he ever express any anger towards you and make any threats against you?
No, as a matter of fact, I refer to him as Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in the sense that he was very charming.
He was very ingratiating.
We had a couple of conversations in court.
He would discuss retirement.
He would discuss why he was trying to resolve the case.
Late in the case when foreclosure of his unit was imminent, he approached me and he said, look, I'm trying to make my wife happy.
I want to make her happy.
Can you work with me?
So he's not seeming to be in any way desirous of hurting you.
Not to my face, no.
So out of nowhere, two years after this condo case starts, you get a call from another lawyer, which shook you to the core.
What happened?
It was in late August, and I got a phone call from an attorney having a similar name as mine, but it's a different spelling.
And he called me up and he said, look, I got a strange phone call from a woman in Ohio who says that there's a doctor trying to kill me.
And I didn't know this doctor.
Do you know a Dr. Schwartz?
And I said, I sure do.
And so he said, well, here's the name and number of the woman.
She says she's reported to the police.
You might want to give her a call.
Well, you can imagine what my next call was.
Oh my goodness.
So this woman had called in a tip saying that Dr. Schwartz had, and she, if I understand correctly, was a recovering meth addict.
Yes.
Oh yeah, she was a patient of his and she was a recovering meth addict, self-described meth addict.
And so she would see him periodically and during those meetings he would say, you know, hey this guy in Michigan's giving me some trouble, you know, I'm financially strapped, etc.
And then he kept pressing her for involvement in some kind of crime against me.
Can you imagine how reprehensible that is, everybody?
This woman is coming to a doctor, she's already having enough problems, and he's pressuring her to become a hit person, to murder somebody.
So, what was going on in your mind when this all came to bed?
First of all, they thought that someone has a revenge plot against your life.
It was very unsettling.
Well, in my opinion, Danny.
Let's call him Danny.
That's his nickname.
This is how his friends know him.
Danny, in my opinion, is a manipulator, a con man, if you will.
And I didn't know if this lady was a setup to get me to overreact or whether it was for real.
And when she described herself as a meth addict, Well, then immediately your red flags go up and you say, well, hey, is she credible?
Well, I looked into it and yes, she is credible.
She told me what the doctor was planning.
She was very specific.
She put me in touch with the police.
And she was unaware of what the police were doing behind the scenes because when I made a call to the local police, he said, oh, I got the FBI scheduled for this afternoon.
So they were acting.
They were acting.
All right, up next, what Michael had heard about this twisted revenge plan was just the tip of the iceberg.
Plus, what the FBI uncovered is going to shock you.
Thank you.
Stay with us.
We're back with a true crime story about an evil doctor with a twisted prescription for revenge.
Dr. Daniel Schwartz tried to hire one of his patients, a recovering meth addict, to commit murder.
He wanted her to kill one of his enemies with a fentanyl injection.
So I'm going to show you how deadly this is.
So, got a syringe here, and it doesn't take much.
Just a few drops of this material.
You see that?
That's potent stuff.
Fifty times more potent than heroin and a hundred times stronger than morphine.
They can kill you in seconds.
So he intended the target of this revenge plan to be Michael, who's sitting with me today.
This is sort of shocking to realize how easily they could have killed you if they'd wanted to.
Several months after he got a judgment, he won $60,000 against Dr. Schwartz for suing, inappropriately, the Condo Association, you got the FBI involved.
Not you, but the police, actually.
And you learned about a plan for revenge.
Can you share with us what was uncovered in the sting operation?
Sure.
Once the local police made contact with the FBI, things started to happen rather quickly.
And there was a couple of conversations where apparently he discussed in detail what he wanted to do.
He wanted to, first of all, use a silencer, get a gun, etc.
That was in the affidavit that the FBI filed.
But there was also a plot where he was going to try and get enough fatal fentanyl.
To either do a brush pass on me where someone would come by and stroke my skin with a fentanyl solution and I would have a reaction to that and die or I'd be injected or mix it into my coffee and I would drink it and die.
So immediately after capturing incriminating evidence on tape, the FBI busted the doctor.
But your Michael nightmare was not over yet because he still had you in his focus.
What happened after the bust?
They got an exchange of this sham fentanyl, or fake fentanyl, and she had delivered the fentanyl to him, and then shortly thereafter he was arrested.
After he was arrested, according to the FBI affidavit, he cooperated.
And he, during the course of interrogation, said, oh yeah, I had these other plans where I was going to hire somebody to kill McCullough for $10,000.
A backup plan.
Oh yeah, there were two or three.
So you think you're off the hook.
They come to your door at four in the morning, knocking on the door, which is never good when the FBI is knocking on your door at four in the morning.
And they shared this with you.
Yes, they did.
And the first thing they say to me is, show me your car.
We want to see your car.
And so I showed them the cars we had, and one agent starts crawling under the car looking for a tracking device, and the other agent says, hey, guess what?
After his arrest, he talked to us, and there may be more than one person out to get you.
Oh my goodness.
So Dr. Schwartz, Daniel Schwartz, has denied to authorities that he actually planned to kill Michael, but he did make some very disturbing statements about wanting to torture you.
This part really got my attention.
What did he say?
Well, I found this out in the FBI affidavit, but apparently during the course of interrogation he said he had these fantasies of kidnapping me, taking me to a secluded location, torturing me, injecting me with fentanyl, setting me on fire, and killing me.
I guess killing me three different times.
What is it like to hear that?
That someone would hate you that much, but also to do it in that way.
Well, it's shocking.
I mean, to think that this fellow, I hate calling him a doctor, but to think this fellow is treating some of the most vulnerable people on earth, and he's trying to persuade them to kill me.
And then he's having these strange fantasies related to a movie he saw called Reservoir Dogs.
And there's a scene in there, it's rather gruesome, where one of the crooks tortures a cop, cuts off his ear, throws gasoline on him, and is about to light him on fire.
And that's the inspiration, if you will, for Danny.
So Daniel Schwartz, Danny, was charged with one count of attempted possession with the intent to distribute a controlled substance.
It doesn't sound like much.
If I can get your feedback on that, but we reached out to his attorney for a statement.
We've not received a response at the time of this taping, and now the case is pending.
There has not been a conviction.
He's not being convicted.
But if he is found guilty of this charge, Daniel Schwartz could face up to 20 years in prison.
And what about the fact that he still has his medical license?
That's scary.
And I think that's something that needs to be looked at.
Last I checked, his medical license is still active and in good standing.
And I don't know.
I mean, he could be writing prescriptions from jail for all I know.
I think it's an area where, as a physician, I'll take ownership on this.
We're not strict enough.
Part of our charge is to protect you by policing us.
Because how are you going to know?
We have a little bit of a guilt.
Lawyers as well.
We have to do a better job taking out folks who are problems so they don't put people at risk.
Because we're given a license to kill when we get a medical degree.
And we don't want people using it for wrong purposes.
So if you had a chance to speak to him, which you might, because our show actually airs in jails, I'm told, quite a bit.
Because it's on network television.
Jails don't put cable on.
So he might be listening.
What are you going to say to him?
Look at the camera if you don't mind.
Oh, I don't mind at all.
Danny?
You took a Hippocratic oath.
You're supposed to do no harm.
And you failed as a doctor, but you still have a chance as a person.
Do no harm and stop playing games with people's lives.
Do you feel your life's at risk now?
No, I mean, there's always something in the back of my mind.
I have no idea who this other person is that wanted to kill me for $10,000.
We spent about 15 hours with the FBI, you know, after this 4 o'clock incident.
We spent, you know, about 15 hours where they tracked down every possible lead.
They gave me the clear, the all clear at the end of that 15 hours, but who knows?
I mean...
There's another person I want to talk about here.
The person who I think is the opposite, the foil of Danny Schwartz.
It's the woman, the woman who called you and called the police.
This is someone who is a meth addict who is taken advantage of by a person with a lot of power over her.
Her identity has been kept secret by the FBI. Michael, you've never met her.
No matter.
I know who she is.
I can get in touch with her.
But out of respect for her and the FBI, I'm not going to do that.
On the show this year, we're talking a lot about the power of one.
The power each and every one of us has to make a difference in the world.
This woman took an incredible risk.
What do you think about her?
Well, you know, personally, I think that we overuse the term hero.
We call people heroes for doing their job, and I don't think that's a hero.
If you do your job, you do your duty.
But this woman, I mean, she's among the most vulnerable people on the planet, and her credibility is suspect in law enforcement because she's an addict, right?
But she knew this wasn't right, and she stuck with it, and then she did actions on her own to try and notify me.
And so she's a hero in my mind.
She saved your life.
It saved your life.
Good luck to you.
Thank you very much, Jackie.
We'll be right back.
Up next, an Oz exclusive that will shock you.
How one mom went undercover to bust her own pedophile son-in-law.
She speaks out for the first time about how she uncovered this Sunday school teacher she called family was a child predator.
Today, an Oz exclusive that will shock you, scare you, and might make you question your loved ones.
This is the man who married Kim's daughter, a Sunday school teacher studying to be a youth pastor.
He seemed like the perfect father and son-in-law.
But then Kim would uncover the shocking truth about who really was that still haunts her today.
For the first time, Kim reveals how she busted her own pedophile son-in-law.
In Oz exclusive, she reveals how she went undercover to expose him for what he was, a child predator.
When Kim's daughter Carrie met her husband Ryan on a Christian dating site, it seemed like a match made in heaven.
They shared the same religious beliefs and Carrie loved that Ryan was studying to be a youth pastor.
When Carrie saw how great Ryan was with her young son from a previous marriage, she was hooked.
But shortly after the birth of their first son together, Things started to unravel.
Ryan's whole attitude had changed.
At first, Carrie suspected her husband of cheating.
And when she checked his phone history, there was no doubt that something was wrong.
But what Carrie learned was far more sinister than an affair.
When her mom Kim found out, that's when she decided to go undercover.
Kim and her daughter, Carrie, are with us now.
Thank you both for coming.
Thank you.
I know it's difficult, but you're going to change a lot of lives.
Awesome.
So Carrie, let's start with what you found on Ryan's phone.
What did he download that made you suspicious of his activities?
I had found that he had downloaded dating sites for men.
You approached him, confronted him.
And I understand he agreed to use an accountability app so you'd be able to receive alerts.
We had went through Christian counseling and the pastor had given recommendations of books that we could use to build the trust back up and it was Ryan's idea to download the accountability app on his phone which would send me reports of what he was doing.
And a few months later you got an alert that turned your world upside down.
I did.
I got a report in January that he was seeking minors, particularly boys.
It was Instagram reports and Tumblr reports that he was looking for teen boys, wrestling, singlets, things of that nature.
That's the actual report.
Suspicious websites, it says.
Right.
And all the details.
So at that point, like a lot of daughters, you went to your mom for help.
I did.
What was your reaction, Kim, when your daughter shared with you what her husband, your son-in-law, was doing?
I was shocked.
First of all, I was quite shocked because I loved him.
He was my son.
He was part of the extended family, and so I was heartbroken.
So, without telling your daughter, and with some concerns in your heart, you began to go undercover.
What did you do?
Well, I created a Facebook account for a 15-year-old male about an hour away from where we live.
And I reached out to him.
I sent him an email.
I created a fake email.
I created a fake Facebook.
I created a fake Instagram.
And I found pictures just off the internet that all kind of looked alike.
And I reached out to him and I told him, I'm 15. I heard about you because I hear you're a really cool youth minister and I'm really struggling with the idea that I think I might be gay.
And so...
You know, immediately we started conversing and he was telling me things that, you know, he told me that he was also gay and, you know, we ended up texting.
Most of our conversation was texting over a two-week period.
Can I share some of the excerpts of your conversations?
I can't obviously share most of it, but Ryan talks about being different.
This is a portion of what we could show on air.
He says in one post, it's hard.
People don't understand and are very judgmental.
That's why I'm not a pastor anymore.
Then he adds in a separate post, you have another friend now, and he punctuates it with a smiley face.
Kim, what was the moment that your son-in-law crossed the line and confirmed your fears?
It shocked, it terrified you.
Yeah.
It was about two weeks into the texting and we had gotten on Tumblr and he was relentless wanting pictures.
That's really hard to come up with fake pictures when, like, I'm really not 15 and I'm not a boy and all of this stuff.
So he finally wanted to meet at a local park.
And I wanted to make sure I was clear and I'm like, so are we going to have sex?
And he said, yes, we can do that.
I was physically sick.
I mean, I cried and I threw up.
And it's like my worst nightmare came true.
Carrie, how did that affect you when you realized this man who you married, who you trusted, was soliciting an underage child?
I was nauseous.
You know, I didn't trust anymore.
The person I loved the most was a total stranger.
He was doing things that I never dreamt he would ever do.
It was a hard pill to swallow.
In the middle of all this, he blindsides you with another request.
Good.
What did he want?
He wanted shared custody of our son.
So with all this happening, and he did not know that you were catfishing him at the time, what did you tell him?
We took it to the attorney and we told him that he could either terminate his rights or I would go as public as I could to every news media that would listen and I would expose who he really was and what he was doing.
And he didn't want it known.
I didn't want anybody to know what he was doing, so he willingly terminated his rights, thinking that I would stay quiet about it.
All right, we've got some more things to talk about coming up.
How did Kim's pedophile son-in-law finally get busted?
Because, believe it or not, what you guys have done doesn't count.
No, it didn't count.
Stay with us.
Cooking spray explosions caught on tape.
We don't really know why these cans are exploding.
From the kitchen to the hospital.
Third degree burns, disfigurement, even blindness.
That's coming up on Monday.
We're back with an exclusive about how this undercover mom helped bust her own pedophile son-in-law by catfishing him online.
Kim says she posed as a 15-year-old boy online and was then solicited for sex by Ryan, who was married to her daughter, Carrie.
So Kim, with everything you knew about Ryan, what was it like to realize that even though you had entrapped him, And let him show his true stripes.
He was still out and about doing whatever he wanted.
The things you had done really weren't admissible to court, to police, or anybody else.
So you ultimately got custody.
I did.
Kudos to you.
It was hard to do.
But after two years of being separated, you received a call from a sheriff's office in a neighboring county.
I did.
What did they tell you?
The deputy had contacted me and said, you know, that he wanted to sit down and talk.
He said the Tumblr had alerted the sheriff's office and said that they had suspicious activity on Ryan's account that they thought needed to be turned over.
They then executed a search warrant, and while doing the search warrant with the pictures they found, they also found all the divorce papers that he had saved in the termination of rights.
The deputy knew how hard it was to get rights terminated, and so he contacted me and wanted to know what our side was.
You know, what did we know about Ryan that they hadn't learned yet?
After having done all this and gone undercover and tried to protect kids over those next two years who were at risk, what was it like to hear about these developments?
It was difficult because that was one of the things that our inner circle kept bringing up to us is, okay, you've protected, but what about everybody else?
I mean, he has no accountability for it.
And so when she got the call from the deputy, it's like, okay, maybe we do have a chance to protect others.
So in January 2019, not recently, Ryan pled guilty and was convicted to one count of receiving and distributing child pornography.
He was sentenced to 10 years in prison.
So Kerry, you should applaud, but it's tragic.
I don't want to be predictive to this man.
He clearly needs help.
It's been a year since he's been convicted.
How has the healing process been for you and your family?
It's taken some time.
I'm actually, I'm going through counseling to put it all behind us.
I've had to sit down with my older son and break the news to him through a counselor.
How old is he now?
He's 12. And how did he deal with that?
He was in a lot of disbelief when I told him.
You know, his question is, he should know better than this.
Why was he doing it?
You know, and coming from a 12 year old.
He knew.
He knew.
But, you know, I'm married now to an amazing guy.
Good for you.
Who was adopted.
Good for him.
Just so you know, I did check his background.
Yes, I'm sure you did.
I did check his background.
I'm sure you did.
It's like, now wait a minute.
Well, he has good taste in women for marrying you.
Thank you.
And he did recently adopt my youngest son in October, so...
So I got one last question.
Carrie, what do you think about what your mom did?
She's amazing.
You know, she went to the ends of the earth to protect.
You know, not only myself, you know, but her grandbabies.
She's absolutely amazing.
Undercover grandma.
There's a TV show there.
Thank you both very much.
Thank you.
Let me ask Jim Clemente to join us.
He's a retired FBI profiler who specializes in child endangerment.
He's with us via Zoom.
So child predators can be living right under our noses, and it can be difficult to judge a situation when you're so close to what you just saw firsthand.
What are the warning signs to look out for with close friends and family, even if you love them?
Well, anyone who would want to spend more time with your kids than you can stand spending with them, that's a red flag.
And the most...
Offensive and dangerous offenders are acquaintance offenders, people you know, people that children know, because these people smile on your face and take advantage of your children behind our backs.
That's why I hate the term child predator, because it puts kids in the mind of lions and tigers and bears instead of the nice neighbor, the nice coach, the nice teacher.
And then if somebody's secretive about their phone or internet use, that's also a red flag.
Follow up with that.
Look out for signs of grooming.
Grooming is when somebody pays attention to your child, gives them gifts, and shows them affection.
Affection can be something as much as putting your arm around it in front of their parents or patting them on the butt after a good game.
And if the parents don't say anything, the child thinks, oh, that contact's okay.
And then in privacy and secrecy, the offender goes further.
What a deep insight.
So in Carrie and Kim's case, the law was not on their side, at least at first.
So what should you do if you suspect something like this is happening in your own family?
Who do you turn to?
Well, the first thing you should do, though, is have age-appropriate, open talks with your children, dialogue back and forth about sex and sexual victimization.
You can be loving and supporting, but if you don't talk to them about it, I'm telling you, the offenders will.
They definitely want that opportunity.
But if you see something, if you suspect something, ask questions, follow up, and you can contact your local ICAC. That's the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force.
They're in every area across the United States, and they're trained by the FBI. They will help you.
If you need it, please contact them.
Thank you, Jim, very much for all you've done for our country and for being here today.
Carrie, my undercover mom, Kim, it's always a mom's instinct that you've got to trust.
Thank you for doing what you did as well, for using your power, one, to prevent another child from being hurt.
We'll be right back.
Up next, this aspiring model and actress was lured to a hotel room under the guise that Jeffrey Epstein was a town scout for Victoria's Secret.
She's opening up about the terrifying sexual assault she experienced in that room and how her police report fell on deaf ears.
Today, new and shocking details inside the Jeffrey Epstein scandal that continues to grip the nation.
New York federal prosecutors charged Epstein with sex trafficking involving girls as young as 14. Months after what's been classified as his prison suicide by hanging, one woman has come forward to say she sounded the alarm on Epstein more than two decades ago.
But claims that the police ignored her report.
In May of 1997, the then 26-year-old model and actress auditioned for Epstein under the guise that he was a town scout for Victoria's Secret.
Upon entering that hotel room, she claims Epstein grabbed her and tried to undress her.
She fled in tears.
That woman is Alicia Arden, and she's joining us today.
Thank you for being here.
Dr. Oz, thanks for having me.
I know it takes a lot to revisit these issues and I appreciate your being here.
Thank you.
How did the encounter with Epstein begin?
What was the first thing that happened?
So my friend originally met him in 1997. She was working in finance as a hedge fund manager.
So she went to meet him, and he was telling her, oh, you're really pretty.
Do you want to be in Victoria's Secrets?
And she said, no, I'm not a model.
I don't want to be a model, but my friend Alicia is, and you should meet her.
So your friend connects you, broker seems like a reasonable connection.
You go over to, you met him in a hotel room?
So I called him in New York and he said, I'm coming back to Santa Monica and we'll have a meeting.
So this innocently progresses, your appointment is made, you show up, you knock on the door, he opens.
Is anyone else with him?
He was just by himself in his hotel room, and he invited me in the room, and he's kind of saying, okay, so Alicia, you're really pretty, but you're athletic, and you look a little bustier in this photo.
He was kind of distraught of that.
He didn't want you to be busty?
No.
So keep in mind, when you go on an audition like that, I was in a tiny little top with a swimsuit type bra underneath it and a little skirt so you could see my legs and my hips and my stomach.
So he was looking at me and he said, let me see your hips and come let me manhandle you.
He said that word.
I've never heard that word ever in my entire life from anyone.
Not in anything.
It's a bizarre word to use for a woman.
Yeah, and so he wanted to, he said, let me manhandle you a little.
So he started to take off my shirt, and he was bigger than me and tall, and I I was kind of thinking his hands were becoming weapons and he was starting to take off my top and my skirt was coming up and he was kind of pivoting me around.
So then he was taking off my shirt and then he was taking off my skirt and I started to not like that.
So I was putting it down and I grabbed my portfolio and I had wanted to leave.
And for whatever reason, he took $100 out of his wallet and he put it on the table.
It made me feel like a prostitute, so I did not take that.
What was going through your mind when he was manhandling you and moving parts of your clothing around without your desire and commenting on hips and breasts and parts of your body?
I felt a little scared and I did not want to be assaulted or raped.
So, you escape.
Mm-hmm.
But you do something that's different.
You actually call the Santa Monica Police.
In fact, you go down to Santa Monica Police Department and you file a complaint.
What did the police do?
Did they take it seriously?
So I filed a sexual battery police report in 1997. I was in there and the police officer said to me, and I'm on tape saying that right coming out, so it's very believable because I'm saying exactly what happened.
He told me, you're very attractive.
Do you think you intimidate men?
You went up to the hotel room willingly.
I said I was pushing his hands off me, and he was just bigger than me.
So then he proceeded to say, do you really want to file this report?
Because you have to get a jury to believe you.
You have to get attorneys to believe you.
And then I got scared.
And then I got scared.
So he said, well, do you want to think about it?
I said, well, I'm here.
Why can't I file the report right now?
He said, I think you should think about it.
So I did.
I went back to work.
I thought I was very upset and emotional about it.
He talked you out, the police officer talked you out of filing a report?
Out of filing.
I really wanted a woman.
I came out of the police station saying they weren't, you know, very understanding or supportive of it that I came in there.
So I went back a week later in May of 1997 and I did it.
Good for you.
So you filed the report.
What was the follow-up on your complaint?
Well, I got wind that Jeffrey called my friend, who he knew, the girl in finance, and he said, who is this girl that you set me up with?
She filed a police report on me and she said, yeah, because you told her that you could get her in the catalog, you started touching her and manhandling her like you were becoming really physical with her.
Why shouldn't she do that?
And then I had heard that the police called him and he denied it.
They believed him essentially over me.
So I've been very upset for years, Dr. Oz, and so distraught about it.
And then I get upset because maybe I could have saved some of the girls, you know, because of the teenagers.
I was complete.
There's no way I would have survived what they survived.
I was 26 at the time, so I had a little bit more college and will and life experiences under my belt.
None of this is your fault.
I could have never survived like they are.
You did exactly what you were supposed to do.
And we have a system that did not serve us well.
But if they would have followed him, I could have saved some of the girls.
If they would have followed up, they would have saved some of the girls.
You did what you needed to do to get the ball rolling.
Up next, was Alicia victim-shamed?
And could her complaint have stopped Epstein from hurting more women?
We're gonna examine it.
Stay with us.
Susan Smith still behind bars for killing her sons.
She wanted to end her life.
The prison guard.
The affair no one knew about until now.
Did Susan Smith seduce you?
That's coming up next week.
Hi Christina, this is Jeff.
I just came out of the hotel for meeting Jeffrey and I was ready to cry right in front of him because he was just saying about my hips and I didn't expect that I had to be in a bra and underwear in front of him in the hotel room.
You just heard a voicemail left by Alicia Arden after she says she was sexually assaulted by Jeffrey Epstein during a sham model audition in 1997. More importantly, as Alicia says, she sounded the alarm on Jeffrey Epstein over two decades ago, but her police report fell on deaf ears.
Joining us now is her attorney, Gloria Allred.
Thank you again for being with us, Gloria.
How common is it that female sexual assault victims are not taken seriously?
They're overlooked by authorities.
Unfortunately, Dr. Oz, now in 2020, it's still happening that often women who report as victims of sexual assault, rape, sexual abuse are not believed.
Can you help me and Alicia with an issue that we're both struggling with?
How could, if the police had taken it seriously in 1997, the course of Jeffrey Epstein's addiction to pedophilia and other sexual abuse been altered?
Well, it may be that if he had been sufficiently investigated, that it would have saved a number of victims from being victimized by Jeffrey Epstein.
I have recently filed lawsuits on behalf of three women who were sexually trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein when they were underage.
The police should have listened to her and they should have believed her.
So, we reached out to the Santa Monica Police Department.
They did not get back to us in time for this taping.
Alicia, what is it like knowing he may never face justice for what he did to you and the other victims?
He can't, right?
He's gone.
I was very, very disappointed at that, that he died in the prison, and it's very upsetting that he's not getting that.
Do you think he committed suicide?
I don't.
You don't think he committed suicide?
No, I don't.
Gloria, you know the system well.
Do you think he committed suicide?
I think it's fair for the public to continue to ask questions.
And I do hope that this investigation, which is ongoing by the United States Justice Department for the Southern District of New York, will ultimately lead answers, result in answers in which the public can have confidence.
So who would have wanted Jeffrey Epstein dead?
You know this web of intrigue, Gloria, better than anybody.
You know, it's possible.
I mean, some people speculate that somehow, you know, that maybe there were inmates, maybe there were some other powerful forces outside that paid certain inmates to do it.
I don't know what the answer is.
None of us do.
But, you know, when someone who is just essentially the center of attention and who is being prosecuted For, I like to call it child molestation because that's what it is, and sex trafficking of underage girls.
When something like that happens, when he's in custody and being prosecuted, you know, it could be any number of things that happened and we just have to get to the bottom of it.
Now that Epstein's dead, there's no federal trial anymore.
Well, not yet.
There's no prosecution of him because he's deceased.
But it may be that there is a prosecution of anyone who may have conspired to assist him.
He could not have continued to sex traffic and have available to him young girls if others had not assisted him.
These are the questions that need to be answered.
And we want answers.
We're going to get justice.
We are...
Suing the estate of Jeffrey Epstein so that we can get compensation for many victims for the therapy bills, for their medical bills, their lost wages, their pain and suffering.
And it's overdue for these victims to get justice, and we are going to see to it that they enjoy it.
Larry, thanks for being with us, Alicia.
Thanks for telling your story.
We'll be right back.
Thank you.
Tuesday on the next True Crime.
Imagine learning your husband of over 30 years was having an affair, being sent thousands of taunting texts from his mistress, and then suddenly spotting her driving your family's car.
How would you react?
That's exactly what happened to Frances Hall.
And what she did next led to the death of her husband Bill and landed her in prison.
After 30 years of marriage, Frances' world was rocked when she received a call from a woman who told her she had been Bill's girlfriend for the past three years.
Bonnie Contreras was a 28-year-old former exotic dancer who says she met Bill when she was selling chicken on a stick at a spinach festival.
According to Frances, Bonnie began sending her thousands of taunting texts, images, and even sexual videos of Bill.
On October 10, 2013, after weeks of harassment, Frances was driving a black Escalade when she saw Bill on his Harley Davidson motorcycle, followed by Bonnie driving the Hall family's Range Rover.
Frances snapped, pulled a U-turn, and started chasing Bonnie.
Bill ended up riding next to Francis, and his motorcycle made contact with Francis' Escalade.
I just saw an Escalade side-flip motorcycle and managed medical inspection disability.
53-year-old Frances was arrested and in police custody when Bill died at the hospital later that night.
A high-profile trial followed, and on September 8, 2016, jurors found Frances guilty of aggravated assault and murder.
She faced 5 to 99 years or life in prison.
On the next true crime, that snap decision landed Frances Hall in prison.
She'll be here with her daughter Nikki, opening up in an exclusive interview for the very first time since her release.
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