Tucker Carlson critiques Mike Huckabee and Doug Wilson for an "idolatrous affection" toward Israel driven by Jewish influence, alleging H-1B visas favor Indians over Muslims and accusing Huckabee of lacking diplomatic rationale for U.S. support. The host condemns Wilson's alignment with Herzl Institute-funded trips and his dismissal of the USS Liberty incident, arguing this strategy alienates younger generations and creates "Judeo-Christian nationalism." Ultimately, the discussion asserts that transparency regarding financial rewards and speaking circuits is essential to winning over audiences, contrasting Wilson's opaque methods with a call for honest engagement. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Idolatrous Affection for Israel00:03:03
Today, we're breaking down not just one, but two vitally important interviews.
Tucker Carlson over the weekend interviewed American ambassador to Israel, that is Mike Huckabee, and also he interviewed a notable pastor in Idaho, here in our country, named Douglas Wilson.
These two interviews were incredibly revealing.
There is a sinister and growing, not just affection, not just defense, not just appreciation, but idolatrous affection, borderline worship for the nation state of Israel on the right wing political aisle here in America.
It is an idolatrous affection, borderline worship, and it must be revealed, exposed, and rebuked.
This is a massive problem.
And some of the rhetoric from the Zionists in our country is well, Israel is the last line of defense protecting us here in America by fighting the war against the invasion of Islam over there in the Middle East so that we don't have to deal with it here in our country.
But that is simply not true.
It is Jewish influence and has been for decades now in countries in the West that has ultimately opened the door.
To a full flood of immigration from multiple third world countries, which include Muslim countries, but also the third world country, and it is third world, India.
It's not just Islam, but by the tens and arguably hundreds of thousands we have on H 1B visas, Indians coming into these United States, they are not Muslims, but they are Hindus.
And guys, we just have to set the record straight.
It is not the Muslims, right?
We have an ongoing feud between Christianity and Islam, stretching over 1,300 years.
Read Defenders of the West.
Read sword and scimitar.
I don't want to downplay the idolatry and false religion that is Islam.
Islam is not on Team Christ.
All right, let's set that straight.
However, it is not the Muslims who are building 90 foot tall statues outside of major American cities here on American soil.
It is Hindus.
It is not the Muslims who are setting up temples in Canada, our neighbors to the north, and performing rank pagan idolatrous rituals to be televised all over the internet.
Let's be honest for a moment.
Islam is not our biggest problem.
It has been historically.
It currently is only a problem because we continue to bring them here.
If it wasn't for the influence in our politics, which is disproportionately Jewish, opening the doors with immigration policy, bringing the Muslims here and the Hindus in almost a 10 to 1 ratio, then we wouldn't be having the problems we are today.
We need to get to the source.
The source is not Islam, the source isn't even Hinduism.
The source is.
Is Israel.
And to be more specific, in a general sense, it's not just Israel, but it is Jewish people here in the United States pushing for progressive secular policies that weaken our country.
Loyalty Claims and Genetic Arguments00:14:12
This episode is brought to you by our premier sponsors, Knickknack and Fat Fins.
Radical Christian nationalist pastor, Joel Webbin.
Joel Webbin.
I'm going to talk about Joel Webbin.
This is a massively important conversation.
Over the weekend, Tucker Carlson had not just one, but two different interviews.
We're going to start with his interview with Mike Huckabee.
There were things that were said by Senator Mike Huckabee that are absolutely disgusting, appalling.
The idea that Israel not only has a right to exist, right, that could be spoken about.
I think that no country, just for the record, I'm not picking on Israel in this regard, I don't think that any country has an inherent right to exist.
Every country that does exist exists because it conquered.
Some land at some point, and then not only does it have to conquer, it then has to be able to keep and maintain.
And the moment that it can't, and some other nation conquers it, well, then it ceases to exist, right?
That's the way that nations work.
They rise and fall.
So no nation, no country, not just Israel, but any country for that matter, has somehow a divine or inherent right to exist.
And the problem with that statement, as it pertains to the nation of Israel, is that everything that's baked into the statement assumes that.
Israel doesn't just have a right to exist, but has a right to our taxes, our military, our support in order to maintain its existence.
And so that's already problematic enough in and of itself.
But in addition to that sentiment, which has become quite common, Mike Huckabee went much further and not just saying that Israel, as we know it today, its current borders, that that should be maintained, that that has some kind of inherent right to exist, but that Israel should actually be a lot larger, that Israel should be.
Really has some kind of divine inherent right to a sizable portion of the Middle East that would include other countries being replaced, conquered, decimated.
It was quite the conversation.
Well, if you remember, it's about six months ago, Tucker Carlson had on Ted Cruz.
And Ted Cruz, the United States Senator from Texas, all too common Texas L, unfortunately, Ted Cruz explicitly billed himself as, I am a fighter for Israel.
And so six months ago, he sat down with Ted Cruz and it was about two hours.
Why do American Christians, American evangelicals, have to support Israel?
And Tucker's trying to get to the root of the question.
What biblical basis do they have?
What claim to the land do they have?
And so he's sitting down, now sitting down with Mike Huckabee, the ambassador to Israel.
He's not just sitting down with your evangelical pastor who was raised on dispensationalism and doesn't know his left hand from his right.
He's sitting down with United States senators, United States ambassadors, and asking them just give me a basic answer.
What does Israel offer to us as far as diplomatic and economic and military advantages in the region?
Oh, you can't really articulate it.
Oh, why do Christians from the Bible?
Have to support the state of Israel.
And both of these men, men that are experienced, I mean, Mike Huckabee was a pastor, men that are evangelicals through and through, men that are intimately involved with everything that goes on geopolitically with Israel, none of them could give a compelling answer.
The takeaway from both of those interviews was just by asking questions, just by digging in, just by even quoting the scripture.
I mean, Tucker's no pastor, he does a good job, but he's just basically reading the narrative from Genesis, both of them stumped, both of them tripping over themselves, both of them saying things.
I mean, Mike Huckabee, we'll go to this clip in a minute, his statement that Israel could take it if they wanted to.
It garnered the condemnation of a number of our allies in the region.
You can see this on screen.
This is a joint statement from the United Arab Emirates, the Republic of Indonesia, the Republic of Pakistan, Bahrain, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, literally all coming out and saying, We are extremely concerned that a U.S. ambassador to Israel is saying Israel, this country that's not America, could take these nations over, our nations over, our country, our land, if we want to.
Tucker is embarrassing these guys on the global stage.
Yeah, and that's where the theological arguments, I think, Cruz made and Huckabee made as well in the interview.
They're so tenuous, and you know, you can see it when they start talking about it.
It seems so projected.
You know, you've received the talking points or like the grade school, elementary version of those who bless Israel will be blessed.
And yeah, and I think it comes out as Tucker continues to push him and says, well, where does that write in?
Have you really thought through this?
Israel, why wouldn't they be able to have Jordan?
Why wouldn't they be able to have Saudi Arabia or at least parts of it?
And he bluffs, you know, he gaffs, I should say, because he, He says, I guess, I suppose they could.
If I'm being consistent with the boundaries the Bible lays out.
Let's go to the first thing that they opened the interview with.
And this was a discussion of Mike Huckabee's meeting with a spy named Jonathan Pollard.
Jonathan Pollard, 30, 40 years ago, stole United States war secrets, sold them to Russia, and served over 30 years in prison for it.
Now, he himself is Jewish.
He lives now in Israel.
And he's gone on a tour since being released, basically saying, I would do it again.
I'm unapologetic.
I want to read from an interview that Tucker cited.
He didn't directly quote it, but he cited, and it illustrates.
What we've been saying for six to eight months about this problem.
This is Jonathan Pollard in his words in an interview with Israel Hayom talking about would you do this again?
And specifically the accusation do Jews in the United States have dual loyalties?
Jonathan Pollard said this if you don't like the accusation of double loyalty, again, this is Jews in America, if you don't like the accusation of double loyalty, then go home.
It's as simple as that.
If you live in a country where you are constantly under that charge, then you don't belong there.
You go home, you come home.
If you live outside of Israel, then And it transitions here, then you have a responsibility.
You have a dual loyalty.
He says this American Jewry has a massive problem.
American Jews consider themselves more American than they do Jews.
That is the crux of this issue with Israel.
It is the country in the Middle East, yes, but it's also about the disproportionate power and the disproportionate loyalty here in the United States that they offer and render to service of this country.
And Tucker, it's funny because he's very against speaking in groups, speaking categorically.
You can see him asking all these questions.
Well, we have these people here that have this allegiance.
We have these people here with these loyalty.
Here's them in their own words saying, American Jews, the problem with them is that they're more loyal to America than to Israel.
And asking the question, what do we do about that?
What are the implications of this?
Doesn't this kind of imply that we have a unique problem?
You don't just, I guess you could say this Somalians say the same thing.
They love Somalia.
Somalians, the average IQ is more about the 70s, they're not as effective.
They're not able to requisition, to direct, to get weapons, economic support, missiles, arms deal packages.
They're not able to do that.
They're not as upwardly mobile.
American Jews uniquely are.
And they've used that to look out for Israel.
Now, it makes sense why people would do that.
I can imagine if I was displaced or I was in another country and I was in a diplomatic position, in a political position, I would also try to use all the power at my disposal to help the United States, to help Texas, to help my homeland.
But when it comes down to, hey, would the United States be willing to bomb Iran, a country with bordering Russia to the north, with economic relations to China in the east, potentially sparking off another Cold War?
Would you be willing to do that to us?
Well, that doesn't seem like it's in our best interest.
It's in the best interest of a donor class, a group of highly connected people with a lot of money, with a dual loyalty.
It's in their interest.
It's not in the interest of the farm boy from Iowa.
It's not in the interest of the Midwest.
It's not in the interest of California.
It's not in our interest as Christians.
And yet we are still being guilted and manipulated.
By men like Mike Huckabee, say you have a not just political, not just an economic, a religious obligation to support this.
Yeah, I actually thought that was one of the most telling parts of the interview with Tucker and Huckabee.
Is at some point, Tucker sort of admits, if you will, like a bitterness.
He says, You know what?
I am a little bitter that my country, that people don't talk about my country like they talk about Israel.
American citizens in Israel, including the ambassador to Israel, is talking about Israel as it has a right to exist and they're surrounded by enemies on all sides.
And I think Tucker basically makes the point that I wish people cared about America that way.
He uses, I think, England a couple times as an example of do they have a right to exist?
What about them?
What about immigration that's swelling?
Their borders are open and they're getting replaced by immigrants from these third world countries.
And I think that actually is kind of the heart of it.
It's like you can throw the label of anti Semite, you can throw the label of a Jew hater, whatever the case is.
But Tucker makes it really plain and simple.
It's the fact that we want our country, we want our people to be patriotic and on an international stage for our geopolitics to align with the interests of our country.
Because we're Americans, and to your point, and as we talk about due loyalty, I think that's what becomes clear is that those who are aligned with Israel and Israel's interests, they actually don't think that way.
Right.
Right.
One of the things I'm so sick of, I'm just going to say it, is it's not even truly a Mott and Bailey, right?
Because the Mott and Bailey fallacy is the idea that you have something that's very reasonable, very rational, very defensible, and then, you know, that's kind of like the tower, the Mott.
And, you know, and then you can go out into the Bailey, this is, you know, out into the fields and extend, you know, push forward your arguments, but it's less defensible, right?
So it's, A greater reach, you know, it's more transgressive, more aggressive, but it's less defensible.
And so, whenever somebody attacks you for going out into the Bailey, then you retreat to the Mott, you know, and as soon as you're defended in the Mott and they start to back off because they're like, oh, you know, now we look like the bad guys attacking this very defensible position, then you push back out into the Bailey, right?
That's the Mott and Bailey fallacy.
But what we see in the case of Israel, Mike Huckabee did this on multiple occasions throughout the interview, is it's not even the Mott and the Bailey, it's like the Mott and the Mott.
It's like two Mott.
And this is what I'm talking about.
Anytime that you start to press, and Tucker did at certain points, he's like, okay, can you prove to me, can you show me the evidence of some kind of genetic claim to this land?
I want to understand, right?
Because, I mean, we're not talking about Ashkenazi Jews being here for the last 2,000 years.
We're talking about them being here since 1948.
This is a fairly recent development.
Somebody else was there, right, for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years until the West, Christian nations, which I don't know what we were thinking, but Christian nations were like, you know what, we should destroy.
Place an entire people and put you know Jews back into this location, and we should put Jews into a sea of Muslims and put ourselves and our children and our children's children forever and ever and ever on the hook financially to supporting them because they're going to require our defense constantly in order to be able to maintain this space.
And so, my point is that you know the Jews may have been there initially a very long time ago, but they have been absent from this place for.
Centuries and centuries until relatively recently in 1948.
And so Tucker is kind of pushing on this point and saying, What is the genetic claim?
Is it something that's provable?
You know, we have the DNA testing.
Could we do that?
Could we see some of the genetic results?
I'd like to know.
And it's at that point, whenever that line of reasoning, which is not something Tucker came up with, that's what guys like Mike Huckabee and guys like Netanyahu would assert.
They would say, Well, we have a genetic claim.
We were here 2,000 years ago, and yeah, we took a 19 and a half century hiatus, but it's still ours.
We took the long way, you know?
We took the long way.
We took the detour off the highway, came back around.
We called dibs 2,000 years ago, you know, and so it's ours.
And so that's the same thing.
International Jewry, for the record, the Balfour Declaration, the United States recognizing Israel early.
It was Jews ingratiated into Western countries that lobbied and lobbied and lobbied without themselves moving that made it possible that the UN and Britain would ultimately rescind their control of the territory, giving it to the Jewish state.
So even back then, your 1900s, Jews actively working in all the different capacities they had friends with the president, friends with the prime minister, working internationally to achieve this.
Right.
Yep.
And, you know, guys like Winston Churchill magically.
You know, being out of debt, you know, who paid the debt, you know, who helped them out.
So there's that claim, and it's guys like Mike Huckabee and guys, you know, like Netanyahu, guys who are Jewish or Jewish adjacent, who are pushing that line of reasoning, that, you know, that argument for rights to Israel and saying the genetic claim.
But the moment that that starts to be pushed back on, like we saw in the interview with Tucker Carlson, then they go from the mot to the mot, right?
In this case, the other mot is the religious claim, right?
So it's, well, actually, it's, you know, it's because we're Jews religiously.
Oh, I'm not talking about ethnic.
Uh, Jewishness, I'm talking about the religious Jewishness, and then that gets pressed on.
It's like, so anybody anywhere in the world can just convert to Judaism, and all of a sudden, do they automatically get citizenship?
Do they automatically have a right to live here?
Like, the moment that somebody converts to, you know, if a Muslim, right, a Pakistani converts to Judaism, do they get a house in Israel and citizenship?
You know, can is that it's like, oh no, that's it's genetic, and then okay, but what about you know, can you prove it?
Let's do some DNA.
Oh no, it's religious, okay, what about no, oh, it's genetic, and they just kind of go back and forth and back and forth.
But I just want to say, for the record, the Jews are just, they're not doing this right.
They need to upgrade their game, right?
Deciding Based on Pearl Harbor00:05:09
So let me give you an example.
This is what I personally have decided.
I just decided this this morning, all right?
But I think it's one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life.
What I've decided is that I'm going to search for the lost city of Atlantis.
I'm going to find the ancient documents.
I'm going to transcribe them, use some AI technology, learn how to speak the language, adopt some of the rituals.
And you've got, you know, Jews doing this.
Right today, Sephardic Jews, Ashkenazi Jews, and claiming land rights.
But what really matters is all these guys going off these little pieces of land.
What about water rights, ocean rights?
I'm going to seize for myself the heritage of the great Atlanteans by finding documents, learning to speak the language.
I'm going to then say, I'll never be able to prove it, but that I'm of this genetic line and religiously.
I might convert to whatever God Atlanteans used to worship.
And then I want actual rights to all the ocean.
That means.
Anybody who is mining or drilling oil offshore, I want royalties on all of it.
I'll let you keep even 50% because I'm a generous guy, but I'm going to be the king of Atlantis.
That will give me power and even financial economic rights over all the oceans, the seven seas.
That's my claim.
And I feel like it's a comparable claim to the one that we heard from Mike Huckabee.
That's my opinion.
All right.
Anything else on this?
Because we've got another interview that we want to discuss.
Well, I would just add there are several different ways that.
You know, the pro Israel camp tries to make a case that America should support Israel.
So there's the theological lens.
I feel like we've treated that.
It's very obvious, it's very shallow, very elementary.
But then there's this like lens of this transactional, mutually beneficial military collaboration.
It's, hey, we give them $13.8 billion in aid, they spend that back on American defense companies like Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, and then we actually, by deploying those, those, uh, Missile systems, for example, in the Middle East, we can gather intelligence.
They give us information about terrorist organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah and all of the Iranian influence in the region.
And that's supposed to be mutually beneficial.
But I think the point that's missing, and I think Tucker pinned Huckabee on this, is if you think about Iran, for example, Quinn Nipiak poll in mid January came out and said seven out of 10 Americans do not support military action in Iran.
That's 80% of independents, that's like almost 80% of Democrats, and a little over half of Republicans.
All said, we don't want the U.S. to get involved in Iran.
Come to find out, the U.S. is actively preparing for military action in Iran.
And it's like, what's the explanation for that?
Americans don't support it.
So, I feel like the only thing you're left with is, okay, Israel has an undue influence.
They have more influence than American citizens, at least you can say on this issue.
And there's no response to that.
Right.
Yeah, that's undeniable.
And the irony to me is that from what Tucker was saying and looking into it a little bit, the support or the lack thereof in this case for the U.S. In its involvement in a war in Iran, it is ironically, like shockingly comparable, like almost to the T, with the US's support once upon a time with joining into World War II.
But then something happened, namely Pearl Harbor.
And then all of a sudden we decided, yes, we're going to get involved.
And over the course of the West, Christian nations, you had millions of young men die.
And morally, right, psychologically and religiously, in large respect, we never recovered from that.
We never recovered, and not just us, we America, but all these Western nations, European nations and America, Christian nations, Western nations never really recovered from the catastrophic losses of two world wars.
People lost a sense of optimism and hopefulness for the future and all those kinds of things, and we never really recovered.
But initially, if you go back and look, Americans were just as gung ho about jumping into World War II as they are jumping into a war with Iran.
That is to say, not Not gung ho at all until something significant happened.
And I'm not a prophet nor a son of a prophet.
And in this case, I really, really want to be wrong.
But it does make me wonder is there going to be some kind of Muslim event, kind of like a 9 11 or something like that, that's going to happen in the next maybe year to two years that's going to change Americans' minds about why we need to go in there and fight Iran, just like there was an event, namely Pearl Harbor, that changed our minds about joining into World War II?
Too, um, that's one of those questions that can keep you up at night.
Well said, all right, let's go to our first commercial break and we will be right back.
Hey, I'm super based, I watch NXR Studios.
No, you're not.
I'm gonna shoot you straight, you're not that based.
Why?
Winning Elections Without the Jews00:15:32
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All right, we're going to shift the conversation now to the interview that took place between Tucker Carlson and Douglas Wilson.
We have two clips that we want to show.
The first clip that you'll see is Tucker Carlson talking about the way.
It's the unspoken rules of the game.
It's the way this whole thing works.
And a lot of you are not aware of this, but it is very much the way that it works.
How is it that certain Jewish people, or in this case, Yorm Hazoni, who we're going to reference, he lives in Israel, is an Israeli citizen.
How is it that he's also on the right?
He is a nationalist, but how is it that he has such outsized influence when it comes to the right wing of politics here?
In America.
And so the first clip that we're going to see is Tucker talking about the way that this works.
And everybody who's in a position of influence and works behind the scenes all know about this, but very few people are willing to talk about it.
And we're going to talk about it today.
The second clip, because I just want to show them back to back and then we can have our conversation, is from Douglas Wilson and kind of pushing back on Tucker and saying, Well, Tucker, you know, because Tucker says, What's the significance of Israel?
Are there trade routes through it?
Is there just a ton of oil?
You know, are they helping us financially?
Are they helping us in this way or that?
Like, why?
Are we bending over backwards for this country more than any other country in the world?
Why are they our greatest ally?
Why do we give them money?
Why do we send our sons to fight their wars?
And the answer, and I think this is the correct answer.
I think it's wrong, but I should say it's the genuine.
I think this is what Douglas Wilson and many other guys on the right actually believe.
He does give a truthful answer in terms of what he's convinced of.
I'm convinced he's wrong, but he does give a truthful answer.
And so we're going to see that clip because it's telling, and there's a lot that we'll be able to discuss on.
The backside.
So the first clip again is going to be Tucker in regards to the way the game is played behind the scenes.
How is it that Jews in America and even Jews in Israel have such outsized influence that's growing in America on the right side of the aisle politically?
And then also, what is the reason?
Because Tucker asked a fantastic question Why is it that we are so supportive of Israel?
What do we gain by it?
And we'll see Pastor Douglas Wilson's answer.
Here we go.
And so, this is not my chief concern.
My chief concern is my country.
But if you cared about Israel, man, they're in a bad spot right now.
But no one can admit it.
They all have to lie about everything.
And the people who lie the most, can I say, are the evangelical preachers who go over there on an all expense paid vacation with a foreign government and then come back and tell me that I'm an Islamist because I don't think that we should kill children.
And then you ask them, Did you do a lot of evangelizing in Israel?
Because your whole job is to tell people about Jesus.
Did you do that a lot in Tel Aviv?
Shut up, anti Semite.
What?
I thought we were on Team Jesus here, which I am, by the way.
And I think evangelists should evangelize.
So, like, I'm just saying, without getting into it, this is a true crisis.
And Trump had a lot of ideas for how to deal with it.
I don't know if all of them were right or not, but his energy was focused on this.
And then this foreign leader of a country of 9 million people with no resources, no strategic value at all.
At all.
It's not.
I love Jerusalem.
Great.
Israel, apart from our defense guarantee, is meaningless.
Israel's important because we say it's important.
That's the only reason.
What's its strategic importance other than that?
Are there trade routes that go through it?
Do they have a ton of oil we need?
Like, what is this?
I don't understand it.
I think it's a very simple thing.
And that is, going back to our friends, the Christian Zionists, they're a huge voting block in American domestic politics.
Well, of course.
Right.
And so anybody who wants to be successful in American politics on the right of center has to demonstrate a you're absolutely right.
It has to demonstrate an affection for Israel.
Well, there it is.
And this is consistent on Doug's part to give him credit.
So, for those of you who are not familiar, some of our friends, the Ogden Boys, they're a part of a church in Ogden, Utah, and do some podcasts and media and things like that.
They've done a lot of great work, Christian men, pastors of a church there.
They, when some of the feud began to unfold between Moscow and Apologia, another organization called the Ezra Institute against.
Ourselves here with NXR, Right Response Ministries, here in Georgetown, the church that we're a part of, as well as the guys in Ogden.
And, you know, there was this fracturing and a clear divergence of paths, one being very pro Israel, and then our side of the aisle, not so much.
There was an attempt to reconcile.
There was an attempt to try to get some sort of resolution to make peace, to hold this muscular, more engaged, politically, culturally engaged.
Subset of the Reformed Protestant movement trying to hold it together.
And so what happened is that the boys from Ogden, just within days of Christmas, took it out of their schedules to take a seven hour trip, just one way, so quite the drive, to go and visit Douglas Wilson and some of his leaders.
That would include, in this case, his son Nate Wilson.
This would also include Jared Longshore and Joe Rigney.
And he was going and meeting with these individuals, the guys from Ogden.
And having a conversation, how can we seek peace?
We don't see eye to eye on the Israel issue.
And one of the things that was explicitly said in that meeting is that Christians, politically conservative Christians on the right, who are trying to save the country and trying to ultimately establish a Christian nation, Christian nationalism, if you will, that that task cannot succeed without the Jews.
That we can't, there is no winning scenario.
Without the Jews.
Essentially, it was basically like think of Saruman.
It's like you can't beat Saruman.
You can't win.
The only thing you can do is join him.
And that was basically the answer given.
And again, like I said, I appreciate the consistency.
This is the same answer now that's given by Pastor Douglas Wilson to Tucker Carlson and the clip that we've just watched.
Essentially, what Doug Wilson is saying is that, yeah, I know that in economic terms, in geopolitical terms, and pretty much in religious terms, and every Every kind of term you can think of, there is absolutely no benefit.
It is not a two way street.
It's a one way relationship that America has with Israel, that Christians have with Jews.
We do not benefit at all.
However, we still have to have some kind of affection for Israel because if you're going to be a pastoral figure on the right in America or a political figure on the right in America, if you want any kind of leadership or influence on the right wing, political, cultural right wing in America at all, Then you have to demonstrate, you have to signal some sort of affection, not just defense, right?
Or not just avoid criticism or avoid anti Semitism, but you actually have to signal on somewhat of a regular and clear basis affection, positive affection for Israel, because on the right political aisle here in America, there's a bunch of Zionist Christians, dispensational Zionist Christians, and you can't win politically without their support.
And on that point, we can come back to this a little bit more later, but on that point, I just want to state for the record, I vehemently disagree.
I think that that is a short sighted strategy.
There was a time where that may have been true.
And even if it were ever true, and it probably was, the means still don't justify, or rather, the end, if you win the election, the end still does not justify the means.
It's like, okay, so great.
So we got Bush into office?
Great.
All right.
You know, like, oh, we got this person into office.
We won this election with the GOP.
How's that working out for us?
How's that been working out?
How is neoconservatism?
Been working out for America's benefit.
So, yes, we pander to the dispensational Christian Zionist on the right political side of the equation here in America so that we can rally the base.
We love Israel.
We really love Israel.
Come and vote.
Come out and vote.
We get our neocon, limp wristed GOP candidate into office.
He does absolutely nothing except for give in to certain Jewish policies that end up giving us more immigrants here.
We become more fractured as a nation.
The welfare state grows, our taxes raise, all these different things.
We go and fight another war that we have no business being a part of.
So I think that it did win.
And if we're saying winning the election is the end, but the means by which we won that election and even winning the election itself didn't actually transpire into some kind of benefit for America.
And I think we can demonstrate that clearly.
We all instinctively know this over the last 50, 60 years of American conservative politics.
However, that was true.
It wasn't beneficial, but it was true.
It's no longer not even is it not beneficial, but it's not even true on its face anymore.
It is a short sighted strategy because what it assumes is that boomers are going to be the voting block in perpetuity, that they're always going to be here.
But we know that certainly the left has been this way for quite a while.
But now on the right, the younger contingency on the right, both Gen Z, certainly Gen Z and Gen Alpha, but also a growing number of millennials and a fair number of Gen X. Pretty much, you know, millennials and Gen X are kind of split on the issue of pro Israel or not.
Gen Z and Gen Alpha are very much against a pro Israel contingent.
And boomers are really the only ones who are die hard.
You know, like the greatest dream of a boomer is that not only their children, but also their grandchildren would get to go and die in the sand in the Middle East for Israel.
That's, you know, and that draped over their casket at the funeral would be an American flag, an Israeli flag, and that there would be a pastor.
You know, doing the eulogy, but also, you know, a Jewish rabbi who would come up and say a few words as well.
I mean, that is the boomer's dream.
It's very, I mean, I'm being a little facetious, but not much.
It's really actually wicked.
It's disgusting.
It's really, really sad that this generation has been so deceived and so propagandized.
But the point is, this generation, the boomers, will not be here forever.
So, if it ever were true that, well, the reason why we're going to be very, very, very, very intentional not to be anti Semitic, and not only will we avoid certain criticisms of Jewish people or Israel or Netanyahu, but we're actually going to go the opposite direction and we're going to virtue signal on a regular basis through a blog or through a video or through a sermon or a tweet or whatever that we're actually affectionate that's a word that was used affectionate toward Israel.
We're going to do this because we can't win.
We cannot establish.
Christian nationalism here in America without the GOP, and we will never win a GOP election without the boomers.
And the boomers are, for better or worse, and it is for worse, insufferable, die hard, never relenting, dispensational Zionist Christians.
But what you get with that is number one, a short sighted strategy because the boomers will be eventually gone.
That will no longer be a voting block, and you will have essentially persuaded all the younger GOP voters, all the younger conservatives in the nation, to despise you.
You will have exasperated.
Every single one of your sons to whether they'll no longer trust you.
And then, number two, even if the boomers did hang on forever and they start harvesting organs and build a base on the moon and somehow attain transhumanism and upload their consciousness to the cloud and keep voting, which I think the boomers, if they could, they would try to achieve that.
I think they're actively trying to achieve that even now.
Even if those things happen, here's the deal you still don't win because you don't get Christian nationalism, you get Judeo Christian nationalism.
And what fellowship does light have with darkness?
What fellowship does Christ have with Beelzebub?
I don't want, I'm not interested in Judeo Christian nationalism.
I'll take the Christian, hold the Judeo, please, and thank you.
That's not what we're trying to do.
But that is very clearly, I don't think he's being deceitful, I think he's just dead wrong.
That's very clearly the motivation for Douglas Wilson, and I think it represents a large contingency of Christians on the political right side of the aisle here in America, that many of them are convinced.
That Israel is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and we absolutely need them, and it's a two way relationship, or the best of them.
And I do think that Douglas Wilson, in many cases, represents the best of them, but that's part of what makes him harmful is that whenever alleged anti Semitism is on the rise on the right side of the aisle with Republican voters, conservative Christians, then they trot out the best of the Zionists, who, in a technical, theological sense, can wave the car and say, Well, I'm not actually a Zionist.
I actually hold to covenant theology.
But also, Israel's really great, and we need to be really kind to the Zionists because that's the voting bloc.
We'll never win an election without the Jews.
And this trope, tired trope, just keeps being drugged out again and again and again.
And I'm tired of it, and I really appreciate the fact that it seems as though Tucker Carlson, with a large, significant influence, appears to be tired of it as well.
Negative Influence in Favor of Zionists00:07:22
That's why you heard in that first clip Tucker talking about these sponsored trips to Israel.
So the individual who typically runs them is a man named Yoram Hazoni.
He's the president of.
The Herzl Institute.
If you remember the godfather of Zionism, it was Theodore Herzl.
So, this Herzl Institute, part of their goal is to bring in young, influential men, women on the right, and take them on a trip to Israel.
And the way these trips work, it's an example like a bribe.
With a bribe, it's very, very infrequently someone takes a check with $100,000, slides it across the table, and says, Here's what you have to do for the bribe.
So, in the same way with these trips, Yoram Hazoni, he'll say to Christians, We would love to have you come out to Israel.
And don't you want to see the sites where Jesus walked?
Don't you want to see the tomb where he lay?
Don't you want to see the Jordan River?
And there really are truly no strings attached in a documented, explicit sense.
Come out to Israel.
We would love to have you.
But they sponsor these young, influential individuals on the right.
They take them on these sponsored trips.
And what are you prone to do?
What is human psychology tuned to when someone does you a favor?
When someone gives you thousands of dollars of plane tickets?
When someone helps you to walk historic sites that you would have never been able to walk before?
And they take you on a tour of the cities and the IDF and everything else going on there.
You are inclined psychologically, it's not an ironclad law that you will do this.
You're inclined to go back and to sing their praises, to come back and say, Well, we saw what is really propaganda.
We saw great things.
You're going to come back and say positive things, or at minimum, you're going to come back.
And if you don't have anything nice to say about Israel, you'll say nothing at all.
So you at least cease saying negative things.
You at least stop counter signaling, stop criticizing.
And again, you're so right because we want to be clear with this because we know these guys.
We know these guys.
So we actually have some inside baseball.
We're not just speaking off the top of the dome.
This is something that we have verified, and we're going to be really careful in terms of names and those kinds of things.
But the point is, we actually know how it works.
And because we know how it works, we don't want to be unhinged and say something that's categorically untrue.
So let the record state these are not guys who are going on a trip to Israel and a literal check being slid across the table.
They're not being paid in that sense, but it is an all expense paid trip, a sponsored trip with flights, with a nice hotel, with your meals, and those kinds of things.
And you get to go around and See the holy sites, and that's how it's you know pitched.
It's like, hey, look, we're not trying to make you a Jew, that's absurd.
We, you know, uh, we you're a Christian, we respect you're a Christian, and we respect that.
And Israel is a friend of Christians, and we just want you to come see for yourself.
And if nothing else, get a free trip to go to Israel and see the places, the streets where Jesus walked.
Wouldn't that be lovely?
That is the pitch, that is the pitch, and it's a really good pitch.
And so then you go and you make some friendships, and maybe you find yourself, you know, on a Tuesday morning down the lobby, and you're talking to Yoram Hazzoni, you know, about how uh, threatening and dangerous and concerning Joel Webbin is, you know.
Maybe you're one of those Christians, you know, and you're having that kind of conversation, and somebody else who's on the trip comes and informs me about it so that it's not just conjecture, but we actually know this for a fact.
And then you come back, and when you come back, again, it's not like you get something wired to your bank account, you know, it's not like the deed to your house is magically paid for, but you were just wined and dined, right?
You were just schmoozed a little bit.
You were treated really, really well.
And it's not said out loud, and it's certainly not said in written form anywhere where there would be.
You know, a paper trail.
But the unspoken understanding is that I was just treated really well.
And so I should play ball and return the favor by not saying negative things.
And maybe even from time to time, a little retweet there, a little positive comment in defense over here.
And if I do that, then it's not promised, it's not a formal agreement, but there's a fairly high likelihood that, you know, and I'm sure it's not correlated at all, there's no connection, but just coincidentally, I might find myself doing a breakout session at the next NatCon.
Which is in Jerusalem this year.
Which is in Jerusalem this year.
Right.
We get to go back on the trip again.
And this is what is happening.
We know that this is what is happening.
And here's the deal I think that honesty is important.
And just simply being honest and saying, you know, why is there a break in certain relationships?
Guys who were doing ministry together just two years ago, guys who were speaking at the same conference, you know, even one year ago, why does there seem to be this relational rift all of a sudden?
Maybe it's because some of those guys just started drinking the Kool Aid and gave in.
They just became unhinged and became crazy anti Semites.
It must be Joel.
Joel's the one.
He is the reason for the division.
Or it also could be that I'm going to call balls and strikes.
I'm going to call it like I see it.
I don't think that Judaism is a friend of Christianity.
I don't think that Jewish influence is positive for my nation.
And I'm not going to take the trip.
I'm not going to take the whining and dining.
And other guys are, and I continue to say things as I see it.
Those other guys can no longer join me in this, but are even tempted to subtweet.
Maybe it's a little less obvious, a little less direct, but.
But in an indirect kind of way, a subtweet of Joel here, a subtweet of Joel there, knowing good and well that, again, not written down, again, not a formal deal.
But if they play their cards right and they're good little boys and girls, they might get an invitation to a fairly significant and influential organization, a conference, NatCon.
It's an objective statement of fact.
After Doug Wilson made his break with Ogden and with Georgetown, within that next year, it was Daily Wire, it was TPUSA.
And it was NatCon.
As an objective statement, once he broke out of the reformed world and broke, especially from these young ministers, that next year was full of very high profile interviews and appearances.
And it's perfectly valid to say, okay, we see you made this transition, this shift, this change, or maybe it was always there, but you just became more explicit about it.
And it seems that you really got the inside track.
Where did this come from?
Did someone, what was given, what was promised in return?
It's perfectly valid when someone changes their position, breaks relationships to say, was there money involved?
Was there status involved?
Was there power involved?
That is very reasonable to ask.
And like I said, This is objective.
You can pull the videos up of the talks.
And these talks where he's saying things like, Catholics, Jews, and Protestants made America.
Well, there's less than 50,000 Jews in America pretty much until the 1900s.
So, wait, that doesn't add up.
Why are you repeating these lines?
Why are you talking about the USS Liberty, a well documented event where Israeli aircraft attacked a US carrier, claimed as a big mistake, hundreds of United States service members injured, over 30 of them died.
You're kind of brushing it off.
Oh, I'm just asking questions about it.
We see these transitions.
It is perfectly valid to say, where is this coming from?
This doesn't seem organic.
Yeah, I would just add to that.
Even if we grant in charity that this is a genuinely held conviction, there's still a question of why does that conviction specifically mean that you assent?
There's certain positions that are blacklisted and mean that you're not going to get the big show.
You're not going to get the sit down interview with the Wall Street Journal.
Shout Out to Nick Nack Sponsor00:05:03
But then there's this view, which even if you genuinely hold it, which I believe Wilson does, it does lead to all of these things.
And so that's a question that remains, even if you grant that it's not necessarily quid pro quo, right?
It's, hey, I went to Israel and already had these convictions.
And this basically, this trip just confirmed everything that I thought.
And by the way, I'm sure Israel's very pleasant.
I'm sure there are a lot of great places to visit.
I would love to visit the area.
I would love to visit the area.
But I'd be very clear who brought me.
Like someday, Lord willing, we'll visit Israel.
It'll be a Christian nation again.
And I would love to see where Jesus lived and walked, where Joshua crossed the Jordan.
But I'd be very clear hey, here's who paid for the ticket to be here.
Well said.
All right, real quick, I just want to take a moment to give a shout out to one of our premier sponsors.
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All right, that's it.
Let's go.
Next.
I think that's pretty much it.
That's the summary Israel, Israel, Israel.
And then with that, Jews, Jews, Jews, the bears, the Jews.
Like those are the topics that people are presciently concerned about.
These are the things that people are thinking about.
And one of the things with Doug Wilson, in times past on issues like patriarchy, he was a really clear thinker, speaker, and very, very helpful on them.
And then you come to this issue, and even just you watch the Tucker interview, and in the first two minutes where he frames the discussion, which for the record, if you have to kind of take a couple minutes to frame the discussion, That means you probably lost the discussion.
But even there, you can see he doesn't have the sharpness.
He doesn't have the clarity.
He's using these very twisted, elaborate metaphors that I literally remember listening to it and thinking, what is he getting at?
And so, if the other side continues to have bad exegesis, exegeting Genesis as referring to the literal physical nation rather than the descendants of Abraham, which are those who have faith in Christ, like Ted Cruz did, or Mike Huckabee saying that, well, Israel has the right to all this land that includes tons of U.S. allies that we have agreements with.
Bad exegesis like that, and twisted labyrinth metaphors like we have to partner with these people.
Twisted Metaphors Deserve Defeat00:00:45
If that continues to be your MO, if that continues to be the message you push, you deserve to lose.
Get some better arguments.
Right now, the reason we are growing by God's grace, we are making better arguments.
They're shorter.
They're clearer.
They're intuitive.
They make sense.
We're honest.
We're transparent.
Hey, here's these people, and they're being paid money for this.