Wesley Todd and Antonio declare the "Era of the Girl Boss" over, citing Joel Webbin's pie-baking post as proof that debate frameworks are lost. They condemn figures like Ali Beth Stuckey for lecturing men on pornography while posing for bikinis, referencing Titus 2 to label such behavior "reviling women." Addressing ministry, they advise planting independent churches rather than joining denominations during this sifting season, noting a looming pastor shortage as Boomers retire. The hosts further argue that modern economic struggles hinder young men from providing, contrasting this with historical age-gap unions, before concluding that rejecting 19th-century liberal compromises is essential for true repentance. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Why We Ask for Reviews00:05:25
Leave us a five star review on your favorite podcast platform.
I get it.
It's annoying.
Everybody asks, but I'm going to tell you why.
When you give us a positive review, what that does is it triggers the algorithm so that our podcast shows up on more people's news feeds.
You and I both know that this ministry is willing to talk about things that most ministries aren't.
We need this content for the glory of God to reach more people's ears.
Gentlemen, I am pleased to announce that the error of the Boss Babe is now over.
Now, does the Boss Babe know that this error is over?
Probably not, but she is learning along with everyone else in real time.
We have for far too long had men lectured by conservative women.
We're not talking in today's episode about AOC.
Telling men what they should do, or Ilhan Omar, or Nancy Pelosi, or you know, all the regular suspects.
But instead, what we're talking about is that within the conservative movement, we have had, you know, on the one hand, both men and women alike denouncing feminism, recognizing all of its ills, recognizing that it is a net negative on society, and yet still embodying feminism nonetheless, sponsoring women.
To lecture not only women, but both men and women.
Women who are not ladies of the hearth, not in a domestic feminine role, not exercising or embodying a gentle and quiet spirit, but rather who are loud, who are publicly loud, who are counseling and lecturing and attempting to put men in their place.
That's what we're going to be talking about in this episode.
We're going to be addressing a few individual women in specific.
Which is why this topic, which has been a reoccurring theme, but why we're addressing it today.
I want to start by just reading a post that I put out on X just in the last couple days.
Here it is now.
I wrote the following From now on, when women lecture me on here, online, on X, I'm simply going to respond with which particular kind of pie I think that they should be baking in that moment.
Hysterical woman.
Joel Webbin is a misogynist.
Me.
Apple.
Now, to follow up this tweet, I was very pleased and encouraged to see that trending last night was Pastor Joel Webbin recommends pie baking to women critics on X.
And, you know, it's a little facetious, it's a little humorous.
I, you know, I'm having good fun, but also quite serious.
Quite serious.
Now, you don't have to go the pie baking route, you know, if you're more of a cookie guy, you know, or perhaps you want a cake, right?
There are a lot of different ways to go about it.
But the principle remains the same.
There's a certain point where you stop the debate.
There's a certain point where you stop arguing.
You stop attempting to persuade.
And it's not because you're mean spirited, it's because what you're debating, by even acquiescing to the debate itself, you've already stepped into a losing framework.
You've stepped into an oxymoron.
Another example would be deportations and mass immigration.
Well, you know, let's have a debate with, you know, Zoran Mondavi, you know, about whether or not we should have one trillion Muslims, you know, move to New York City.
But no, no, we don't need to have that debate.
We don't need to have the back and forth discourse for the world to see the battle and the free market of ideas.
Let's see which one.
No, deport.
That's all you have to do.
Debate?
No.
Deport.
You take him, you say, I'm sorry, you're not an American.
You were born in Uganda.
You're clearly of Islamic origin.
You hate America.
I'm sorry, sir, you must be lost.
Let us help you and deport you out of the country.
And to be clear, that is the moderate position.
It's the same immigration, that's one example.
It is the same when it comes to the topic of feminism.
You do not need to engage and debate the boss babes online.
And I admit I've done some of this myself, but I think you really can.
And I would argue from a moral standpoint, Should simply respond if you choose to respond at all when some boss babe feminist claiming to be a conservative is lecturing you online.
You can simply respond by saying apple, pumpkin, cherry.
There are all kinds of choices, but I think you see my point.
Responding to Online Feminists00:15:22
We're going to be dropping some names today, sharing some specific examples, showing receipts, things you've come to know and love.
So buckle up.
Tune in.
Here's the show.
We're back.
Some would say so back.
And it's not just the two of us, Wesley Todd and myself, but we have Antonio back on the show.
I'm back and I'm 43% black.
We are back.
We're back.
Antonio has been fulfilling his duties with his day job.
And we are working toward, we've said this in a couple episodes in the past, but to reiterate it, to clarify for next year's vision, we are working towards him being with us full time.
All right.
So the three of us will be contributing.
And he's kind of rounding out the year, but he has a few days off here and there.
And so he's with us today, and hopefully will be with us for a few more episodes, but then we'll become more full time in the new year.
So I'm going to turn it over to Wes to get us started.
This is a conversation, right?
This principle of biblical patriarchy, it's something that we've talked about for quite a while.
For, I don't know, at least the last three years, it's been kind of a major staple in the diet here at Right Response.
But the reason why we're addressing it today is there have been some new circumstances that have surfaced to where this is all a buzz.
It's the big conversation on X and social media platforms over the last 48 hours.
So, to catch people up to speed in case they have been living under a rock, Wes, would you take us through the recent events?
Well, I'll start with just a brief illustration.
Growing up, I did grappling, specifically jujitsu, and I did two tournaments.
And in one of the tournaments, I had two matches, and both of them were against girls.
And I remember thinking back to that one, the first one I won.
I was always more excited about because there were real consequences in that one.
For the second one, if I lost, it's like, oh my goodness, like, do you even come home, son?
Like, you got beat by a girl in a grappling match at 10, 12 years old.
But if you win, it's like, okay, you won.
You beat up a girl.
Like, great job.
We're happy for you.
That's what we expected of you.
When it comes to men versus women, and that's the appropriate kind of framing to put it in, it's kind of a lot of times a lose lose if you accept their framing.
Because if you come out strong and harsh and you name names, The way we do with individuals like a Bernie Sanders, a Zoran Momdani, you actually look kind of cruel.
It's not befitting.
It doesn't look good for your children, for example, to be heavy handed and strong with them.
You're stronger.
You're intellectually superior.
It's just, we all know that.
And to reinforce it and exercise it and put it on display for everyone, if we're honest, it's not really a good look.
But there does come a point, whether it would be an upstart 10 year old that's too big for his size, or in this case, a woman with a platform, a voice, an influence that she shouldn't have.
That you say, I don't care what the optics look like, but practically speaking, you're doing a lot of damage.
And we've got to come out and say, Stop it.
We've got to come out and say, The precedent that you are setting is not just individually setting, maybe, eh, this doesn't look so good.
You're actively swaying thousands and thousands of people.
You're setting an example.
You're modeling.
You're teaching a younger generation of women to pick up on something that shouldn't be picked up on.
And you have to come out and say, Stop it.
And you're going to look, in some ways, cruel.
I mean, Joel, you had this last week right response, or not very responsive, right wing watch, very close in name.
They came out and they're like Joel Webbin.
They kind of paraphrased you like he said these terrible things about women.
You were actually really respectful.
You weren't name calling, but you said these are the problems.
Modern women today, and your phrasing was atrocious.
They sleep around, they're loud, they're not taking care of the home, they don't want children.
So even in just accurately summing up the situation as it was, you couldn't help but say, he called women that.
But at a certain point, you have to say, no, this is what it is.
They're doing damage, they're doing wrong, they're modeling something for young women, and you're not the bad guy when you do that.
And if anything, You're the protector.
I think of the Old Testament with Jezebel when she was thrown out of a window.
So harsh.
Oh my goodness, women are the fairer sex.
Yeah, but she was destroying not just the bodies in this case, but the souls of thousands.
And it needed to be done.
Eaten by dogs in her case.
Not great.
Yeah, you're right.
And the irony is it's like, well, men need to stand up.
The reason why you have Deborah's or jails or this or that and the other is because men have been passive and apathetic.
But then my response would be well, the patriarchy bros, as you'd like to call us, the people that you're constantly publicly disparaging, That's actually precisely what we're doing.
We're standing up and we're saying, that's enough.
That's enough.
And we're not even saying, hey, everything out of this individual person's mouth, this particular woman, is wrong or incorrect or unhelpful.
But what we're saying, at bare minimum, is at best, in a best case scenario, she is taking the place of a man.
There is some man out there who is gifted.
And capable and called, that last one is significant, actually has the approval and calling of God to fill this role.
And he is being displaced by a woman.
When I think of young men in America today, they are displaced by women, they are displaced by foreigners, now going to be displaced and are being displaced by AI.
It's hard to imagine a period of history.
In a particular time, in a particular place where young men were more despised, hated, and hopeless than today.
So, yeah, we're going to speak out against gay race communism.
We're going to speak out against mass invasions and all the immigration.
We're going to speak out against anti white hatred.
We're going to speak out against boss babe feminism.
We're going to speak out against even the tech bros and Palantir.
No, you cannot destroy an entire generation of young men.
If it happens, it happens.
But let it happen over our dead bodies.
If we have anything to say about it in the grace of God, then it won't happen.
We're going to do everything we can to stop it.
Feminism is just one of many culprits standing in line with a baseball bat to bash young men in the face.
We've had it.
It's enough.
Take your pantsuit and go home.
Apple pie, please.
Cherry.
Rhubarb, if you're feeling a little bit risky.
A little off the beaten path.
Yeah, you know.
But yes, it is time to go home.
John MacArthur, God bless him.
Rest in peace.
He nailed it.
The only thing, I'll say this, be a little spicy here.
John MacArthur, when he told Beth Moore to go home, he nailed it.
And a lot of you conservatives were applauding.
Well, all we're doing is we're telling a few individuals to go home.
Just 10 years earlier.
Instead of once she's already preaching on the Lord's Day, well, it was Mother's Day, so it's okay to preach in the church on a Sunday.
Once she's already preaching on the Lord's Day, once she's already constantly on the conference circuit and all these kinds of things, yeah, she needs to go home.
But the reality is, and I'm not disparaging John MacArthur, but the reality is that if someone had said of Beth Moore, she should go home 10 years before John MacArthur said it and made it cool, they would have been right.
And so we're doing that now.
Okay.
Yeah, and I would just say I really like the point Wes made around the framing.
Anyone who's worked in a corporate environment before knows that even the presence of really one woman changes the entire dynamic of it.
And that's what I think a lot of women, even quote unquote conservative women, don't understand when we push back against these things, that we're actually making a meta point.
We're saying in this space, the presence of women is changing the landscape, even for men, right?
Like men, there is a rough around the edges, saying the hard truths, being incredibly pointed.
Those aspects of masculinity aren't fully embraced in the presence of women.
That's the point we're making.
And instead, what we get back in terms of pushback is this is mean, this is cruel, jealousy, I think, is even something that's often accused of men who point out conservative women in public space.
It's like, oh, well, you just want my platform.
If I step down, you wouldn't get my platform tomorrow.
And I think a lot of Anyway, a lot of it comes back down to the framing.
It's the fact that we can't actually progress in the way that we're trying to progress, and you purportedly want us to progress if you're here behind this pulpit speaking to all these men.
So I think that's right.
And speaking of platforms, you guys have to understand humans in general were biologically wired to honestly pay more attention when a beautiful blonde woman is up speaking than necessarily men.
And that's not necessarily because they're more gifted, they're better speakers, they're more compelling.
They're actually not.
But.
We are generally, we pay attention to beauty.
So you take a woman that has a natural beauty to her, that's not even a bad thing.
She's going to pull more eyeballs, pull more attention.
As you reference to Joel, you're going to take away from, no, actually, a man needs to be up here saying this.
Let's play this first clip.
This is a clip from Ali Beth Stuckey over the weekend speaking to men and women.
You'll see this in the clip, but if you're listening, men and women at a Turning Point USA event.
That feminism has failed women.
Second one, are you ready?
Are you ready?
Porn has weakened men.
And you know, Charlie, Charlie was so good at talking about this and so good at talking so courageously and sternly and clearly to the young men.
Here's what we know about porn and why it is so detrimental, not only to men, although it disproportionately affects men.
Porn objectifies women and children.
It commercializes sex, which is a gift from God for a married couple between one man and one woman, and it glorifies violence.
It creates addiction and shame.
It destroys marriages.
It ruins your perception of other people.
It is the legal loophole for sex trafficking.
It is evil in every way, and it will destroy your life.
And this is what I would want to say to men, and I hope that you hear it from strong men in your life that men, we need you.
And we need your masculinity, and we need your strength, and we need your boldness, and we need your courage, and we need those things to be harnessed for good.
We need you to be solid pastors.
We need you to be strong leaders.
We need your voice.
We need you to bravely stand up for the most vulnerable, to stand up for women and children and for the unborn, to raise a respectful ruckus for the things that matter.
We need really strong men, and porn makes you weak.
Well, is that part right there about two thirds through?
That was kind of the headline of the clip, and it got about 4 million views.
She says, Men, we need your strength.
We need you to be these leaders.
We need you to be this, that, or the other.
Now, a lot of people picked up and said, Well, hang on a second.
All right, we need men, and men are naturally strong.
Everyone who has eyes can see that.
God has made men to be strong.
And she recognized it and said, Men, we need you out there.
We need you leading.
We need you to be great pastors.
But it's bookended both sides, back and front, by her getting up in the space that a man would occupy to lecture them on the things.
That the men should be saying.
What she said, just take it out of context, put it down in writing, was very good.
Porn is destructive.
But then you have a woman lecturing a primary male sin, not exclusively, but a primary male sin, skidding up there.
Well, it does this and it does that, young man.
It has these negative effects.
Do you know what a great voice is to really make an impact to help young man?
A fatherly, pastorly, married man that has a deep voice, that has gravitas, that has won the fight himself.
You want to actually beat it?
Well, Allie Beth, what you actually have to do.
Go ahead and head backstage and get a man out there speaking about these things.
That's actually how the impact happens.
We're going to move to Riley Gaines here in a second.
But a lot of people noticed you're saying we need men, we're saying we need their strength.
But you're here stepping in the role of a man to lecture young men.
So none of these men have the actual opportunity to do the work that you're saying they need to do.
Yes.
Yep.
She even said that at a certain point in the clip.
She said, I hope you hear this from strong men.
And I would just want to say yes and amen.
I hope they do too.
And I think we missed an opportunity right there for people to hear this from strong men because it was taken by a woman.
Titus 2, we've talked about this plenty of times.
Titus 2 talks about older men training younger men and older women training younger women.
But a lot of people, a lot of even conservative Christians, will take this as a license to say, well, see, an older woman can.
Can teach and she can teach publicly as long as it's, you know, a female audience.
And just a few weeks ago, you know, Alibeth was teaching at the Spare No Arrows conference, which was for women.
But here we are just a few weeks later, and it's no longer just a female audience.
It's now a mixed audience of both men and women.
But even if it was still just women, Titus 2 doesn't just say the who, who an older woman is allowed to instruct or to train.
But also the what.
Titus 2 actually gives the Apostle Paul, it's not generic, it's not ambiguous, and it's not vague.
He actually gives the curriculum.
He says these are the types of topics, the types of arenas where a younger woman needs instruction.
This older woman is not just teaching younger women on anything and everything under the sun, but particularly in these areas.
And the areas are all feminine and domestic.
How to be submissive to her husband, how to be a lover of children, how to be a keeper of home.
Hypocrisy in Titus Two00:09:14
And he follows it up by saying, keepers of home, so that the word of God may not be reviled.
I think of the reviling woman, the reviling woman.
I know that David Edgington, he's going to be coming on the show soon.
He's written an entire book about reviling wives in terms of their disposition, their attitude, their rhetoric towards their husbands.
So there's a way of being.
A reviling wife in terms of your behavior and your speech towards your husband.
But according to Titus chapter 2, not just being a reviling wife, but in an even bigger category, you can be a reviling woman by doing what?
By getting online and publicly committing blasphemy or slandering Christ, or that, no, simply by stepping into a man's role and a man's world.
That's what the Apostle Paul says.
He says that older women should train younger women to submit to their husbands, be lovers of children, not given to much wine, not given to gossip, and to be keepers of home so that the word of God would not be reviled.
A woman who is outside, Of the home, who is neglecting the home, leaving the home, eager to leave the home so that she can do the next event, take the next opportunity.
According to scripture, Paul's concern under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit is that that would lend towards the reviling of the Word of God.
So it's not just that women should not be speaking to a mixed audience.
That's true.
Women should not be instructing and lecturing men.
Beyond that, though, even in those few contexts where an older woman is instructing, Youthful women, she doesn't get to instruct them in whatever she wants.
The curriculum is actually outlined by Titus 2, what those things are.
Because if it's just a general instruction, general spiritual instruction on doctrine of God or soteriology or this, that, and the other, well, then those younger women can receive that instruction on the Lord's Day right beside their husbands from biblically qualified men, from their pastors.
You don't need to get an older woman to do that.
The last thing on that note that I think is worth pointing out again, the Titus 2. Passage is that it says older women, and yet I find it quite interesting that often when I see women on stage, they're not wearing dresses, they're dressed for a business type of role, not a domestic feminine role.
And they're not talking about uniquely domestic feminine things like being keepers of home and submissive to husbands, but they're talking about general things that apply to both men and women.
The audience is Quite rarely, simply female, but often mixed with both men and women being present.
And lastly, they're not actually older women.
They're younger women.
In the audience, you'll see older women, but it's actually younger women instructing older women and instructing older men, not with feminine things, but with generic, ambiguous, universal things that apply to both men and women.
To think that that's conservative.
To think that that is somehow in keeping with the traditional view of Scripture and the confines and boundaries that Scripture places on men and women is either ignorance or willful deceit.
And it's been said that it's very hard to help someone understand something when they're being paid $30,000 to $50,000 a pop to not understand it.
I think there might be something there.
Are we ready for our first commercial break?
We've got one more tweet from Riley Gaines.
Okay, let's highlight the hypocrisy.
And for the record on age, Alibeth Stuckey is 33.
So, older women, I would be hard pressed to say 33 counts as an older woman.
She's raised children, they're out of the home, et cetera.
Riley Gaines, so like I said, this clip of Alibeth Stuckey went viral.
A lot of people said, well, you're saying we need men's strength, but here you are taking this stage instead of a man.
Riley Gaines, who I'll get to in a moment, said, if you're a man who feels offended by this, there's a good chance you're exactly the kind of man that she's talking about.
She was challenging men.
They use pornography.
Now, if you rewind the clock, just about a year or so, Riley Gaines, for one, she was actually the one who spoke up about transgender athletes in sports.
That was her big claim to fame.
This is more two to three years ago.
Well, she did that.
But if you rewind the clock even further, she's supporting Bruce Jenner as he's dressed up as a woman and taking pictures with him.
The contradictions are hard to keep track of.
It's hard to keep track of.
A year ago, though, there was a whole big controversy.
She starred in a calendar.
And this was not a calendar of the first half of the year.
A conservative calendar of the year.
It was a conservative calendar.
It was a conservative dad's calendar.
It was the best pies of the year, the best baking.
Oh, wait, no, it was a bikini calendar.
So it was a conservative dad's calendar full of scantily clad conservative women.
And it's funny, that actually is very conservative.
We're conserving the sexual licentiousness of the left from the prior decade.
So Riley Gaines is up here saying, like, if anyone has a problem with Ali Bestucky and her lecturing of men and their use of pornography, then you're probably part of the problem.
And also, for the low price of $29.99, be sure to get my bikini pictures in this conservative magazine.
Do we see the hypocrisy?
Do we see the inability of women's involvement on the stage at this scale in our movement?
And do we see the impetus?
And we're going to go to another conservative woman.
Well, we hate pornography, but bikinis are okay.
Do we see the contradiction?
At what point are we going to say, yeah, enough is enough?
This is who the young men are going to listen to older men, wise men, tested men.
And as far as the women go, we love you.
We don't want to speak negatively of you.
We don't want to drag you down to our level to rhetoric and to anything cruel.
You have got to get off stage.
You've got to go.
Bye, sweetheart.
I feel like, real quick, before we go to the commercial.
So, if you have Riley Gaines a year ago posing for a bikini calendar, but don't worry, it was a conservative bikini calendar, and then saying, you know, how could you possibly disagree with Ali Beth Stuckey?
Yes, men, you know, need to give up their porn habits.
Also, buy my calendar for $29.99.
You'll see me, you know, in a two piece.
The hypocrisy is glaring, of course.
But.
Since we've delved into the word bikini, I would love an early life, like a little origin story, a little founding myth of bikinis.
Where does this come from?
So we talked about this.
This is about a year and a half ago with Michael, the growth of immodesty in America.
A while ago, swimming actually used to be unisex, as in men would go swim in one area and women would go swim in another.
We didn't even have mixed swimming pools.
They would say, hey, we've got to be some stage of undressed.
It's not even appropriate to be around each other.
And so, as they began to merge together, most of what you see would be equivalent of shorts and a t shirt today, relatively modest.
However, in about the 1940s or so, here's what happened.
I'm reading from a Rift TV article How did wearing underwear at the beach become normal?
The bikini was brought to America by a Jewish immigrant from France named Jacques Haim.
I don't believe it.
Can you believe it?
But listen to this he originally came up with the design for the bikini in a fashion house in Paris.
Oh, you got the French there too.
Where he named the swimsuit the Atome to emphasize its tiny size, where he compared it to that of an atom.
In 1946, it made its debut in ways branded the smallest swimsuit in the world.
Another designer named Louis Renard had Stolenheim's design and took the first photograph of a woman in what we now know as a modern bikini.
It might be hard to believe, listen to this, but no self respecting models wanted to be seen wearing something so skimpy.
This was in the 1940s.
So Reed had to photograph what would be the equivalent today of a prostitute.
No woman in modeling, no woman in fashion would even wear it back, not 100 years ago, even 80 years ago in this country.
No one would even be caught dead wearing that to the beach.
And now conservatives say, buy my calendar for a nice spread of however many ladies are featured in it.
And also, men, take control of your lust and don't look at porn.
Absolutely wild.
Quite, quite hypocritical.
All right, now let's go to our first commercial break and we'll be right back.
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So, the Alibeth Stuckey, Riley Gaines controversy, that was over at the weekend.
And then today, we decided to just kick things off with another fresh round of controversy, inspired by conservative, claiming to be professing Christian women, just bringing their worst takes.
And again, these are influential.
Lots of people think this way.
We're not just setting up a straw man or a boogeyman and saying there's one person here that agrees with this one thing.
There are millions, I would say, of Christian women.
That believe exactly this rhetoric.
They have a problem with the end of it.
They have a problem with the fruit, but they fail to actually see the things that brought it to fruition.
So you'll see on the screen, this is a tweet from Allie Voss.
Allie Voss, she's part of the American Conservative Coalition, a big time Trump supporter, claims to be a professing Christian.
She said this it's the Norman Rockwell meme with the guy standing up with kind of an unpopular opinion, but really it's kind of what everyone's thinking.
She said this you can both oppose pornography and wear bikinis.
You can both oppose pornography and hate bikinis.
And I think this is kind of a great encapsulation of the modern American conservative woman.
She rightfully hates the downstream effects, right?
The outcome of the sexual revolution, the outcome.
I think of all the things like feminism, the birth control pill, right?
Oh man, the birth control pill brought about abortion and cheapened life and all these things.
Well, you do realize the early stages of that.
Like planned parenthood.
Think about that word planned parenthood.
That laid the seedbed that ultimately abortion.
Grew in.
So, everyone will be fine with the early stages.
And right here, you have exactly this.
I'm fine with a swimsuit that every American thought was scandalous 80 years ago.
So, I'm fine with that.
I'm fine with some of the stages it continued to lead to the public undressing of America.
But now, here we are at the final stage.
Oh man, I really don't like what this brought about.
It's inspiring.
This is true.
It's violence against women, it's destroying young men's ambition, it's destroying marriages.
I really hate that thing.
Let's go ahead and trim the tree and wait for the fruit to grow again in a year.
And this is yet another case study, another example.
When it comes to conservative women in our movement, we have to say, you've got to sit in the back of the bus.
You've got to take a seat.
You are not connecting the dots here.
If you could say that about men, among intellectually, some of the ways that God has made them superior, strategy and planning, connecting the dots is one of them.
Men get those connections.
Hey, I see how this could lead to this.
I see how in business and strategy, in chess, I see multiple steps down the way.
Women really do struggle to see that.
And it's not even just a matter of like potential causality.
It's like actually a matter of history that this is what has happened.
So it's, and this is a lot of the work that the new right has tried to do is, okay, we obviously all conservatives, quote unquote conservatives, hate the outcomes, the symptoms of our society today.
The new right has said, okay, why do we have those?
What assumptions are baked into all of these different things that you and I rightly despise?
And here you, and this is where a lot of the division is happening on the right.
It's like, I'm unwilling to cast out the assumptions for a lot of the things I'm condemning for all sorts of reasons.
Sifting Through Conservative Alliances00:15:21
I want to hold on to them.
I'm okay with being a hypocrite.
And this is exactly what's happening.
It's like, we're pointing out to women the reason that you are wearing bikinis is because of this flood of the sexual revolution and the 60s, and all of these things have birthed this cultural norm.
And we're actually saying, hey, you and me both disagree with the cultural norm, fine.
But we also disagree with everything that went into that.
Right.
Right.
And so, and to Wes's point, like this is something that women on the right just simply don't seem to get is that that's the point we're making.
Yep.
Well said.
Yep.
All right.
We've got a lot of super chats today.
And I feel like we should, instead of waiting to our final segment, I think we should go ahead and throw a couple up on the board and start addressing them.
Then we'll go, you know, we'll take, I don't know, maybe three or four or five.
Then we'll go to our final commercial break.
Then we'll come back and finish out all the super chats.
All right.
So I'm going to go ahead and start.
This is Mike Peters.
He gave us $10.
Thanks, Mike.
We appreciate it.
No comment or question.
All right.
Just 10 bucks supporting the ministry.
We appreciate it.
And he didn't just do it once, he did it twice.
So nice.
I have so much to say.
So nice.
I need to fit it into two.
He did it twice.
He's like, Yeah, I've got a long comment here.
I'm going to have to fit it into two.
Zero comment $10.
Zero comment $10.
That's fantastic.
Thank you.
We appreciate it.
This is from producer JT, JT Studios.
JT gave us $100.
Thank you.
We really appreciate it.
He said, Here's to more apple pie.
Amen.
Well said.
So true.
Okay.
This is Brown Anglo Saxon Protestant.
And he said, Keep up the great work.
Looking forward to supporting your ministry the best I can.
God bless you.
Thank you.
We appreciate that.
I feel like I should have let you read that.
I know.
That's what I was.
I thought I totally thought you would pass it to me, but that's it.
Yeah, you're absolutely in the spirit and ethos, Anglo Protestant, but also brown.
Yeah, that's my YouTube up there.
Antonio actually did that on the side during the last commercial break.
All right, Antonio, you read the next couple.
Yeah, Dapper Dan sent $9.99 and said, Antonio with many O's.
Thanks, Dapper Dan.
Happy to be back.
All caps, too.
All caps.
All caps.
With six, five or six exclamation marks.
Love it.
The next, I'll do the next one here.
This dude, Rock, sent 20 bucks.
Thanks for that.
It says, if anyone is considering supporting overseas ministry, please consider donating to or directly partnering with ministries in Japan.
They are ripe for conversion, but the laborers are few.
Laborers and dollars.
Laborers and dollars is low for our great friends.
Yeah.
Now, there's a couple guys.
I know there's a CRAC church plant.
It's tough going there.
Japan is very, I think, single digit percentage.
Christian.
Now, interestingly, it's not as hostile.
I think it's 1%.
I just looked at a percent.
Last time I saw a couple years back, it was 2%.
So, now it's not as hostile openly as like Islamic countries would be, for example, or probably even I would think like some of South Asia, so like India.
But there's a culture there that very much so is not friendly to Christianity.
Yeah, it's just, you know, baked in tradition and just really ossified.
So, and there's a language barrier too.
Like you have to spend so long.
If you're an American, this is worth considering with overseas mission.
Praise God for the people that go to spread the gospel.
But think about it.
Some of you, you'd have to spend five to 10 years just learning and immersing yourself in the language just to even be conversational.
So you're not talking like in a year, like I could be on the mission field.
You need to take guys for half a decade at best before they're even starting to be effective.
Right.
It's tough.
Okay.
This is so Mike Peters followed up his super chats with comments.
And so we want to honor that because he did support us.
We appreciate it.
He said, This is a two parter.
He said, My wife and I grew up, I have So that's Independent Fundamental Baptists.
We served 10 years in Spain, became Reformed Baptist, and now attend an SBC, that's the Southern Baptist Convention Church.
I must return to pastoral ministry.
However, since we left the IFB, I seem to be like a man without a tribe.
We are a family of seven, and the SBC isn't for us.
Any advice on returning to pastoring?
It's tough out there.
Definitely tough.
Honestly, if you're actually cold, right?
So, I take this with a grain of salt.
I'm not giving this advice or this counsel in a universal sense to just anybody and everybody who wants to be in ministry.
But for the guys who really are called to do it and have some experience, and it sounds like this individual does, but they feel like they're without a tribe.
I think that for the foreseeable future, I don't think it has not always been this way.
I do not believe it always will be this way.
But I think the cement has not yet settled.
Right, it hasn't yet hardened.
I think a lot of people went through 2020, you know, BLM, COVID, George Floyd, these kinds of things, and there were these dividing lines, right?
And within the conservative movement, some people, you know, landed on one side of the equation, people landed on another.
And I think that a lot of us, myself included, felt like, you know, that was it.
That was the great sifting, right?
That the Lord took his winnowing fork and he sifted, you know, the wheat from the tares among the conservative, you know, side.
Of the equation, and you know, we lost about half of our team, you know, and guys are, you know, Gideon posting, you know, the Lord is dwindling our ranks, but he's going to do a great thing.
And I think there's a lot of truth in that.
I think the only thing that was short sighted and naive for many of us, including myself, was to think that that was it.
Uh, you know, in the true Gideon fashion, there's actually a couple of these sifting experiences, uh, not just one.
The Lord dwindles it down, and then he dwindles it down even further.
And what I've realized now, five years later from 2020, and this great winnowing and sifting.
That God seems to be doing is that the sifting is not quite over.
The cement is not quite hardened.
The dust is not quite settled.
And I predict at this point, I think it's probably safe to say that it's not going to settle anytime soon.
That's not to say that the political right, cultural right, religious right, whatever you want to call it, that it'll just constantly be splitting the penny a million times into infinity, perpetually, without end.
I'm not saying that.
I do think that there will be eventually a settling.
I think eventually there will be a finality to what the Lord is doing.
I just don't think that that settling and finality is directly around the next corner.
It's been five years now, and I think what we're realizing is that we were much further off the rails than we first understood.
At first, it was just like, you know what?
We're doing great.
Conservative Christians, those who are conservative culturally, politically, Uh, we're doing great, you know.
We just went a little bit too far to where you know we started worshiping black people and Saint George Floyd, you know.
And as long as we fix that, then we're right back on target, and that's it, that's really the only mistake that we've made in the last 80 years.
And here we are, five years after 2020, and the sifting continues because we're realizing, oh, it's more than just BLM that we got wrong, you know.
There's a lot of stuff that we've been missing.
And God has used in his providence in the past some great men to write several books, you know, espousing in great detail, not one or two things, but the many dozens of things that conservatives have gotten wrong.
I think of Pat Buchanan.
It was his birthday, I believe, just yesterday.
And Pat Buchanan, you know, writing about many of these kinds of things that are now resurfacing into the public discourse.
He was smeared and defrocked and silenced for the most part, even though he was pretty much right about everything.
But a bunch of conservatives, not just liberals, but conservatives, many of them Jewish, would come out with their yarmulkes and at his public rallies and speeches hold signs saying, Pat Buchanan is a racist.
Pat Buchanan is an anti Semite.
If you're wondering, you know, that sounds familiar.
Where have I seen that recently?
Well, it would be Tucker Carlson, right?
You have the same individuals.
And it just is, guys.
I'm not trying to just pick on some of it, but it is Jews.
It is.
It's not exclusively Jews.
I'm not saying it's only Jews.
But I mean, there was recently some Republican convention of sorts, and there was a bunch of young Jewish men claiming to be conservatives.
Some of the notable ones were literally Democrats just a couple of years ago, but claiming to be conservatives, Jewish men wearing red yarmulkes that said, Trump, right?
Wear MAGA, and holding signs that said, Tucker is not MAGA.
And I mean, you look at that, and the reason why I think it's worth noting is.
It's like I've seen this before.
Like this exact thing.
Guys in yarmulkes, the tiny hats, right?
The every single time group holding signs saying racist, anti Semite.
It's the same play.
It's the same thing that happened to Pat Buchanan.
But my whole point in bringing this up is to say you should be Pat Buchanan Maxing.
You should be reading some of these guys, and what you'll realize is it's not just one thing.
It's not that, you know what?
Conservatives have been just right on track.
But we just got a little carried away on one particular issue when it came to George Floyd.
No, we have been off the rails for decades and decades and decades.
In other words, there's still, sadly, I'm not happy about it, but if we're going to be realistic and discerning and wise and not naive, I think we need to admit that there are actually several more issues for the right to splinter over and divide over into even smaller, more Particular factions for the next foreseeable future, for the next several years.
We thought 2020, that's it.
That was the test.
And half of our team passed the test, half of our team failed the test.
But now we know who's on the right side.
It's us and the Babylon B, right?
Oh, it's us and so and so.
And what we've seen is with each passing year, and honestly, even more frequent than that, every few months, it's as though the Lord providentially gives to conservatives.
Another test, and then another test, and another test.
How much repentance are you willing to walk in?
You want to just go back five years, repent of the last five years of sin, or the last 10 years of sin?
Or do you want to repent over the last 20 years of sin?
Or do you want to repent over the last century of sin?
And I really think that is the way to frame it.
It's basically our team gets smaller and smaller because.
It's as though the Lord is calling us to repent for more and more.
And the reality is that we don't just need to repeal the 19th Amendment, which we do.
We need to repeal the 19th century.
The whole thing, all of it.
It was all bad.
It was all compromise.
It was all liberal.
It was all anti biblical, anti tradition, anti everything foundational that built the West.
And so I don't see this ending anytime soon.
And so, because of that, back to Mike Peters and his question where do I go?
Who do I sign up with?
I feel like a man without a tribe, but I feel called to pastoral ministry.
I have experience in doing it in the past.
My best advice, and again, this is not generic for just anybody who has a dream in their heart to be a pastor.
A lot of guys need to take that dream and crush it, you know, because it's probably actually not from the Lord.
But for the few individuals who are genuinely called for the foreseeable future, as we're still being sifted like wheat and we're still being tested by the Lord, and we're still finding certain individuals that were allies last week are switching teams.
The following week, it's probably not a great time, just thinking strategically, a great time to bind yourself to a particular denomination.
Right?
It's like, hey, well, you know, the SBC is based, you know, and then you get to the next convention and they disappoint you, right?
Or the CREC is based, you know, and then you get to have a, you know, a Merry Judeo Christmas article come to you.
You know what I mean?
It's, I think, I'm not, this is now, hear me.
There are timeless truths and timely truths.
This is not a timeless truth.
I'm not saying for all of time, in all places and all times, no one should ever be a part of a denomination and every single church should be independent and not have any formal ties with anyone outside of their four walls.
I think that's foolish, right?
I'm not prescribing this as this is God's plan for the church for all places and all times.
I'm not saying that.
I'm saying that in a not timeless but timely fashion.
I think that right now, as the church and conservatives are being sifted day by day by day and being surprised day by day by day who's left standing, who's really with us, it's probably not a great time to make very formal binding alliances and to give people outside of your local ministry context significant degrees of power and authority over you.
To where all of a sudden the next test comes down the providential pipeline.
You pass, your denomination fails, and you find out the next week you've been called up on formal charges and are potentially being defrocked.
So, long answer the short version is if you're really called to ministry, then plant a church and you can figure out a denomination later on.
That's my thought.
Well said.
That one guy sent $20.
He said, thanks so much for sending that.
Hey, Joel, I've been listening for a year now and I love the podcast.
Thanks so much.
I just graduated high school and I'm interested in going for a degree in theology, but I'm not sure if there's any seminaries left that aren't fake and gay.
I'll turn the seminary to you in a second, but I would say just graduating high school, just be careful.
Serving the Kingdom Beyond Pastoring00:04:43
I don't know if God's called you to ministry, but there are a lot of men that want to make a difference.
And they're men that want to make a difference.
And if they follow a lot of theology, follow a lot of pastors, they may feel as though pastor is the only way to do it.
And so you're at a great stage in life, you have a lot of opportunity ahead of you.
Just be careful.
I talked to a guy in the last month.
He just finished up seminary.
I think he spent four or five years doing it.
But what he's really become interested in actually is in politics.
So he came up during a time when it was John Piper and John MacArthur and R.C. Sproul like those are all the guys you listen to.
So naturally he said, I want to be a pastor.
That's who has influence.
That's who people look up to.
There's lots of actual tons of avenues by which you can change the world, by which you can be influential for the kingdom.
So God may very well be calling you to ministry.
But also you may be an ambitious young man who's smart.
Who wants to change the world and just see that there are other options besides pastor to pick as a vocation to do it?
So, just because graduating high school, figured I'd throw that out there.
Joel, he asked about seminaries.
Are there any left?
Not faking gay.
I don't know.
That's a good answer, though.
I think that the tide is turning on that phenomenon of young men wanting, desiring in mass to be pastors and go towards vocational ministry.
I think that there was a time, young, reformed, and restless movement.
Think of the 90s, early 2000s, all the way stretching really, I think, till recently, 2015, 2017, maybe even all the way up to 2020.
That was kind of the thing.
If you had a young man who loved the world, Was intellectually, you know, fit and had a zeal for Christ and his kingdom.
He just kind of by default assumed that he was called to ministry.
And so you had a lot of young men wanting to be pastors, and a lot of those young men being disappointed because there were, in some sense, more men that wanted to be pastors, and there were actually, you know, churches to be pastored by them.
I think that that's actually changing rapidly.
To the point where I think that, you know, and also just in terms of the boomer generation, there's just so many older men who are all going to be retiring at once, all in short order in the next five years or so.
I actually think that we're probably going to be understaffed when it comes to local churches.
I think that there's actually going to be an epidemic of pastorless churches.
And I think for a number of reasons.
One, again, the boomers kind of fading out, many of them being ministers.
And then I think, in addition to that, also just the vibe shift is real.
I think a lot of men have come in the last few years to that realization of what Wes just said, which is absolutely true, that there's actually a lot of ways to serve the Lord significantly and to make an impact for the kingdom significantly outside of vocational ministry.
So I actually think that we are going to have a need for pastors.
So I don't want to discourage any young man who feels particularly called to that.
And the reality is that there really is no substitute for credentials.
So, for me, my personal story, I'm tempted to just say, well, you can just do it.
And you can.
You technically can.
What matters ultimately is that you've studied to show yourself approved, not that you have a piece of paper that says you've studied to show yourself approved.
Like, if you're studying theology and studying church history and these kinds of things, you can do it.
It's kind of like the goodwill hunting.
You'll find out, the irony is, you'll find out that you could have gotten the same education with a library card and a few overdue fines.
So, the real prerequisite for knowledge is desire, not university, but desire.
That said, the way of the world, if we're speaking in terms of reality, credentialism is real, institutions are real.
And I think that we're being foolish if we look to The vast majority of world shaking men and don't pick up on the common denominator that the vast majority of them went to Harvard, went to Oxford, went to seminary, have a PhD, or come from this particular family or have this particular achievement.
Desire Over University Credentials00:07:38
So, can you be homegrown, organic, right?
Organic and truly on your own without seminary, study the word of God and know God's word and hide it in your heart?
Of course.
Of course.
Of course, you can do that.
But a lot of it depends on you and what are your desires because you might say, like I said, and like others like me have said, well, I don't, I'm content.
I'm content to just know the word of God, study it, be faithful as best I can in a smaller context, and that's enough for me.
And then later on in life, your desires can change and you start to really, uh, To see something that previously you just weren't able to see, but then realize that there are some things that really are for the rest of your life out of reach.
Like there are certain things I will never be able to do.
By God's grace, it's like I've got, you know, I'm like a four cylinder, you know, Honda Civic and I'm firing on all four of those cylinders as fast as I can.
But there's certain things that only a Ferrari can do, and I'm not a Ferrari.
And the decision of being a Ferrari, once upon a time, that was on the table as a possibility.
But I passed it by.
And at, you know, in your 30s, especially later in your 40s, when you have, in my case, five kids and a wife and a local church that you're pastoring, this, that, and the other, I'm not going to Harvard.
Not going to happen.
Right.
Number one, I don't even think I could get in.
But even if they made some kind of exception, like we'll make an exception for someone who has a podcast with over 100,000 followers, like, okay, like, but when am I going to do it?
When am I going to have the time?
Like, I, That ship has sailed, in other words, right?
It's interesting when you're in your early 20s, it's kind of like the sky is the limit.
You know, I could be anything.
I remember feeling that.
I remember it was about the time I hit, I think it was like when I turned 27 or 28 years old.
And I remember thinking about RC's Pro, always have appreciated RC's Pro.
And I thought, I wonder if one day I'll be an RC's Pro.
And then it finally hit me and I realized, oh, of course I'm not.
And the reason why is because as you get older, You're making more and more choices, and with each passing choice, it narrows the future potential, the future possibilities.
And so, I thought, Hey, I can answer.
I actually, you know, the verdict is not still out.
The verdict has come back in.
If I have the courage and the willingness, the humility to see it, to view myself with sober judgment, I can actually view the verdict, which has already come back in.
I can answer definitively the question of Will Joel Webbin be the next R.C. Sproul?
And here's how you answer it What was R.C. Sproul doing, and what had he already done by the time he was the age I am now, right?
And for me, I was 27, 28 years old.
So, I looked at him and Okay, he was on the other side of the world.
He had learned how to speak Dutch.
He was studying under one of the most renowned theological professors currently alive at that time and working, I think, on his PhD.
And then I looked at my life.
I was like, okay, and nope.
Yeah, that ship sailed.
Yep.
Not gonna happen.
Not gonna happen.
I'm not that.
I'm not him.
So, whatever God has for me, it can be great, but it won't be that great.
And so, anyways, my point in all that is to say, For a young man who is like, well, every single seminary is fake and gay, I'm giving kind of an unusual answer, but I just think it's we've said multiple times, yeah, you can't go here, you can't go there.
They're sold out, they're compromised, and all that is true.
But I guess this is probably the other side of the equation that I've come to see as I'm older, and I usually don't give this answer.
So it's probably, probably good if I, at least in one live stream, in one episode, just at least go on record and say it once.
And so, what I'm saying is this even if it's a school that is compromised, even if it's a school that is fake and gay, there are plenty of based, conservative, significant, influential individuals who are only in the degree of influence they currently wield, only in that position, because not only were they organically gifted, but they were also, in an institutional sense,
Credentialed and the credentials they got were from a school that even when they went was also faking gay, but they still went and they still checked the box, got the title, got the pedigree, and it mattered.
It actually mattered.
There were so many stories when you look at this guy and that guy like all your heroes, all these guys.
Um, I just we're kidding ourselves if we don't acknowledge a glaring common denominator, which is oh, they all went to Ivy League schools, or oh, they all studied abroad, or oh, they all.
You know, X, Y, and Z.
And if we kid ourselves and just say, well, they did that because at the time, all those contexts and all those institutions where they went, there were no problems.
Now, there were problems then too.
Maybe not to this degree, maybe not in the same way, but they were problems.
They were facing the same decision, at least in principle, maybe not the same degree, but the same conceptually, the same difficulty that we face today do I really want to go to that institution and get that credential knowing that they're compromised in this way?
But pretty much every significant, influential person that you could think of, probably 90% of them, when they were faced with that decision, they answered that decision by saying, Yes, I'll suck it up.
I'll put my head down.
I'll study hard.
I'll spend seven years of my life, not in my 40s, but in my 20s, and check this box that if I don't check now, in my third decade of life, my 20s, I know that the ship will sail and I'll never check it again.
But this will open certain doors.
It's not even, I'll rely on the things I learned here.
I may learn garbage here, and all my true learning came organically and being self taught, but the credential itself will open up certain doors for the rest of my life that will not be opened otherwise.
That is a reality of life.
I personally hate it, but I'm not going to sit here and lie to you and pretend that it doesn't exist because it does.
Right?
Yeah.
You know this.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As someone who went to a certain, like just a complete liberal institution, thoroughly liberal institution, but.
Undergraduate, but you don't have to brag on yourself.
I'll brag for you, but like, what, top, yeah, second, second, top 20, I would say top 20.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, and, uh, yeah, I think there's something to, as long as you know what you're signing up for, like I was in a position, presumably, this person's in a position to know what they're signing up for, which is I'm going to go into an environment where, um, that is ideological, ideologically hostile.
Yeah.
And you can sign up for that and you can be an ideal, you know, ideological rabble rouser, um, you know, to use a phrase.
And, uh, And if you go in with that mindset, you recognize you're going to have access to all sorts of resources, because it's not necessarily about the lectures, it's not about the professorship per se, it's about the resources that these institutions can provide.
And so, as long as you know what you're signing up for, you go into it level headed, I think you can build your resume on the back of institutions despite not actually ideologically belonging to the institution itself.
Financial Wisdom from Joe Garrison00:05:01
And many people have done this.
And so, it's definitely something you should consider carefully.
I was also going to say it reminds me of a meme.
It's like when your 30 year old friend wants to reinvent his life, and then it's like in parentheses, it's over.
Yep.
Yep.
Nathan, real quick, how many more super chats do we have?
Just those two?
No, we got.
Oh, my, my, my.
All right, here we go.
Last commercial break.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Go ahead, Nate.
Yeah, that's what I was saying.
You barely got it out.
We were jumping on your mic.
Here we go, which does really sound like here we go to the next super chat.
But what I was going to say before I was so rudely interrupted by both Wes and Nathan, what I was going to say is here we go to our final commercial break.
Let's do it.
When it comes to your financial future, are you planning forward or backwards from your desired results?
What type of financial culture do you want to create for your family and for your children's children?
We are not called to be wise as doves.
Therefore, simpleton planning simply won't cut it.
Joe Garresey helps families develop and implement a long term culture of excellent financial management.
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All right.
We're back.
Next one.
Antonio, you take it.
Yeah.
This dude, this dude Rock sent $2 and says, regarding MMA, do y'all watch and who's your favorite fighters?
And I have to say, this dude gets it because when the black guy returns, that's when the sports questions come out.
These guys would be equipped to answer it.
But I will say, my favorite fighter is Dustin Poirier.
I loosely followed the UFC, and I assume that's what he means here.
I've loosely followed the UFC for a number of years now.
And Dustin Poirier is my all time favorite fighter.
I also like Charles Oliveira, I like GSP, who's a legend.
Yeah, so if you can bear the slop that is just infused into the UFC, I think it's a decent sport to follow.
So, good question.
We can keep it going here.
I can do the next one too.
Glenn Lawrence presents, sent $25.
Wives' Roles and Social Norms00:15:21
Thanks for that, and says Allie wasn't wrong in what she said or what was said, but the fact that she only addressed part of the problem, she never addressed women's part in the creation of it or wives' role in the neglecting of their husbands.
Yeah.
That's true.
It's something you never really hear.
You never hear that side of the argument.
Yeah.
Men need to be talked to, but they need to be talked to by men.
So we're not sitting here saying men aren't responsible.
Of course they are, but they need a man to tell them that.
And then in addition, you know, one of the problems is, of course, the unchecked, unbridled lust of men not kept under self control.
A man without self control is like a city without walls, broken into, plundered.
The proverbs speak of this.
That's true.
But at the same time, there are certain things that women can do to greatly aid men in this battle.
One is modesty, of course.
But another, speaking to individual women as wives, is loving their husbands, submitting to their husbands, and having a regular, intimate relationship with their husbands.
As a pastor, I have had multiple counseling sessions with Christian married men who are married to a Christian woman.
And.
They would have a hard time telling you the last time they were with their wife.
Their wife is not interested.
She's cold.
And so there's the full expectation for her husband to be self controlled, and he should be.
But there's not a willingness to serve him in that capacity.
And the reality is, a lot of women don't want to hear this, but that is one.
I'm not saying it's the premier purpose for marriage, but it is one of God's purposes for marriage.
Marriage exists.
You think of Ephesians, right?
And this is a mystery.
Speaking of marriage, but the mystery now revealed in Christ that marriage, human marriage, earthly marriage, signifies, typifies the eternal marriage between Christ as the groom and the church as the bride.
So, one of the purposes of marriage is as a type to signify, symbolize the gospel, the eternal marriage that exists between Christ and his bride, the church.
That's the purpose of marriage.
Another chief purpose of marriage is procreation, to create.
Children and those children would be trained up in the fear and admonition of the Lord, and that we would be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth not with reprobates, but by the grace of God, insofar as it depends on us, we would fill the world with image bearing worshipers of the triune God.
So, as a type to signify the gospel and the eternal marriage between Christ and the church, also procreation to be fruitful and multiply and catechize and disciple those children to fear and honor.
The Lord.
But another purpose of marriage, you could say procreation, you could also say sanctification.
In marriage, God takes two idol worshipers, right?
Two idolaters, two sinners, and he locks them in covenant in close quarters so that they stomp on each other's idols.
There is nothing like marriage to sanctify a man or to sanctify a woman.
And that's not because women are just so terrible to live with.
I'm not saying that, or that men are just unbearable.
But it's because of the proximity.
There's nothing more intimate, nothing more closely knitted together.
You're talking about someone that you literally, you don't just share a house, you share children, you share a room, you share a bed with this person.
So, all of their faults and flaws and failures are blatantly apparent to you in a way that they're not apparent to the rest of the world and vice versa.
And so, marriage exists as a proclamation, right?
So, this is the preacher in me proclamation of the gospel, Christ and the church, procreation of children, sanctification.
But then, here's one more as a A bulwark against temptation.
So, proclamation of the gospel, procreation with children, sanctification, being formed more into the image of Christ as you stomp on each other's idols, be it by your intention or unintentionally as two sinners locked in close quarters, sanctification.
And then, lastly, a bulwark against temptation.
That's what the Bible says.
I mean, the Apostle Paul literally says, speaking of himself and a gift of singleness, not the gift of singleness, but the gift of celibacy, allowing for the state of singleness.
But he says, you know, I wish that all men were as I were.
And he's not prescribing, he's not saying every man shouldn't marry because then the whole human race would end.
He's not retarded.
But he's recognizing this is a supernatural gift and it does come from the Lord, namely not the gift of singleness, but the gift of celibacy, because it allows for a man, for his interests to not be divided, right?
The married man, his interests are divided, how he can please the Lord, but also how he can please his wife.
But he recognizes that's not going to be the case.
In fact, his particular situation, the gift of celibacy, he recognizes that that's the minority report.
That is going to be few and far between.
For the vast majority of men, it's not going to be the gift of celibacy.
It's going to be the gift of marriage.
And one of the reasons why is because most men, says the Apostle Paul, inspired by the Holy Spirit in Holy Scripture, one of the reasons why most men will be given the gift of marriage is because most men burn with passion.
And he says that if he burns with passion, let him marry.
That action, and men need to hear this.
And women, you need to hear this too.
A good, Holy, sanctified, God glorifying motive for marriage is I'm horny.
I'm going to say that again.
A good, God honoring, God glorifying, holy motivation for marriage, biblical marriage, is I burn with passion.
I burn with passion, but I'm only going to execute this desire through the proper God given avenue.
And so, I'm going to take a wife and I'm going to love her as Christ loved the church, and I'm going to have as much God honoring, biblically permissible sex as I possibly can with this woman as a hedge against temptation.
And Paul literally says this in scripture.
He says, Do not deprive one another, speaking about sexual intimacy, except by mutual consent.
So, not just, Hey, I'm not in the mood, honey.
Well, I am in the mood.
Okay.
Then.
The Bible's pretty clear what we need to do.
I'm not talking about some of the rare exceptions.
Somebody is a quadriplegic or got hit by a truck or postpartum.
Yes, of course, there are exceptions.
So, disclaimers being included, you fill in the blank.
There are some real, legitimate exceptions.
But in general, I'm speaking in general, that's how the Bible speaks in this matter.
In general, you should not deprive each other of sexual intimacy in the covenant of marriage, wife to husband and her obligation, husband to wife and his obligation, unless it is by mutual consent.
For the body of the wife belongs to the husband.
And The body of the husband likewise belongs to the wife.
This is why, even in European and American legislation and laws for inmates, even a guy who's a criminal in prison, conjugal rights, not privileges, rights.
Well, where did they come up with that?
You broke the law, you're a criminal, and you get to have sex for fun?
Why?
Because the Bible said so.
Because the Bible, the foundation of Western civilization and common law, Said so.
And the Bible views it not merely as a privilege, it is a gift, it is pleasurable, it is a privilege.
But the Bible also labels it underneath the category of a moral duty, an obligation that the wife owes to her husband in this covenant his conjugal rights and vice versa.
The husband owes to his wife in the covenant of marriage conjugal rights.
And so they should not deprive each other, except the implication here is on rare occasion.
By only exclusively mutual consent, and only one reason for this rare abstinence in marriage, which is to devote themselves to prayer.
And even then, Paul gives a disclaimer and says, But even then, only for a short time.
Why?
Because there is much temptation in the world.
So, one of God's purposes in the Bible for marriage is so that you can have sex on a regular basis with your spouse.
Because if you don't, there's a lot of temptation in the world.
So when it comes to pornography, men need to be told to have self control, to get it together, and to resist heinous, wicked temptation.
Also, women need to be told, young women who are married to young men with high libidos, they need to be told, serve your husband, help him guard against temptation by sleeping with him a lot.
Okay, but I didn't see that part of the speech.
If you have a woman, number one, it'd be nice if it was an older woman, right?
Not someone who's 33 and leaving her small children to go on the conference circuit.
Number two, so older woman.
Number two, it'd be nice if men weren't in the room and she was actually doing what the Bible said and exclusively teaching women, younger women.
Number three, it'd be nice for her because only women are present in the room.
To not give instructions to men who shouldn't be in the room, but to actually instruct women.
And if those first three criteria, according to Titus chapter 2, were actually being kept and observed in a biblical fashion, she's an older woman, not a younger woman, neglecting her own children at home, she's teaching younger women and not younger women and older women and younger men and older men, then the third thing would fall in line, which is the criteria, or not criteria, but curriculum.
If women were the only people present in the audience, then she would only be inclined to instruct her audience, which is exclusively women.
So then she wouldn't be speaking the instruction for men.
Men, we need you to do this and that and the other.
It would be women, since you're the only ones in the room, because you're the only ones who are supposed to be in the room, you need to do X, Y, and Z.
And one of those things, among many, but one of them would be you want to help your husbands not fall for the temptation of pornography?
You need to be sleeping with them more often.
Glory be to God.
I was going to say, duty sex gets this whole bad rap, but think about men that work 40, 50 hours a week.
That's duty.
A lot of them are not thrilled with it, they don't have great jobs.
And a lot of them, God bless them, they go out with a smile on their face and they do their duty because that's what God has called them to do.
When it comes to wives, here's one of the duties God has laid out to you.
Do it with enthusiasm, with cheerfulness, and God will be glorified in it.
Amen.
Okay.
Antonio, you want to take the next one?
Yep.
Thomas Howard sent $20 and says, The point that was made about how one woman changes the dynamic of the workplace.
I'm a team leader in a combat MOS in the Army.
I had a female soldier who was a real issue.
As soon as she was transferred out, major morale boost.
Many such cases.
Yes.
Well said.
Wes, you want to take the next?
Kodak Joe sent $5.
Longtime supporter.
Thanks for the $5.
As a father of two daughters that are roughly 10 years from marriage, would you suggest talking to fathers of older boys about potential planned marriage?
So, a type of arranged marriage.
We need to do a full episode on that at some point.
Yeah, we do need to do a full episode on arranged marriage, but also a full episode.
I think this is what you're getting at, Wes.
It needs to be done with maturity, right?
So, we don't need to be hashtag based, those kinds of things.
But listen, guys, I know it's uncomfortable, I know we don't like it.
I'm going to say it.
This will be a teaser for something that will be more thorough in the future.
So give me a little bit of charity here.
This is the short version, so not every disclaimer and nuance will be there.
But it does need to be said that at various times, and not few and far between, actually, you can make an argument that the lion's share of Christendom in Western civilization over the past millennia was a regular occurrence that men would marry women who were significantly their younger.
Now, I'm not talking about Islam.
Looking at you, Muhammad, right?
I'm not talking about marrying nine year olds.
I'm not talking about marrying seven year olds.
I think that that is atrocious.
Okay?
I want to go on record saying that.
However, there have been many societies, and I'm not talking about Islamic ones or pagan ones, but Christ honoring ones, where a woman will marry a man when she is relatively young.
Not seven, not nine, but.
15, 16, 17 years old.
I know, in some cases, younger.
I do think that there are the timeless universal biblical principles.
That's first and foremost.
There is something to be said for social norms.
When social norms are blatantly in contradiction, they're immoral, blatantly immoral and in contradiction to the word of God, then we disregard those social norms.
But there are some social norms that are permissible, that don't inherently contain within them blatant sin.
Right.
So if there is a major social norm, That 15 year olds don't get married, and I would argue that we currently have that social norm, then I don't think that we need to come on and press 15 year old girls if they want to honor Christ, the only way they can is to get married at that age.
That's not my position.
That's not what I'm saying.
But relatively young, coupling that with some of the social norms today, so long as they're not the blatantly contradicting social norms that go against the scripture.
So, relatively young, but here's the big point.
It was a regular occurrence throughout Christendom in the West that an older man, and I'm, you know, just to give a little bit of specification, I'm not saying it has to be these exact years, but just so you don't think I'm saying 75 years old and a 15 year old girl, that's not what I'm saying.
But a man who is in his mid, late 20s, a man who is even in his early 30s with a bride who is 17, 18, 19 years old, that was a regular occurrence.
Biblical Obligations and Temptation00:07:20
And the same way that I don't want to look to all my Christian fathers and say that they were racist, I also don't want to look to a vast majority of my Christian fathers and call them pedophiles.
I don't believe that they were.
Now, is there a line here?
Of course.
So all this has to be considered within prudence and wisdom.
But just the general idea, the general concept of.
A man being older and a woman being younger as they enter into marriage.
There is precedent in the West, there is precedent in the Bible, there is precedent in the Christian faith for such a concept.
And the general reasoning for why is that the primary thing that a wife is providing in marriage, one of the primary things, is childbearing and childrearing.
And also, as we already stated earlier, Being a bulwark against sexual temptation for her husband, submitting to him as the church submits to Christ, those kinds of things which are valuable, important,
we're not diminishing or demeaning whatsoever, but those things can be instilled properly in a Christian manner in a relatively young woman to where a woman of 17 years of age can be fully equipped to do those things.
Whereas the duties of a man with provision and protection being kind of the Overarching headlines a 17 year old man in many different cultures and societies throughout Christendom was not necessarily able to fulfill those duties.
At 17 years old, he was not necessarily able economically to provide for a wife and children on his own.
So the man ended up being older before he was ready to enter into marriage with his manly obligations, whereas the woman may be younger because she was biologically and spiritually ready.
To produce her biblical obligations.
And so, all that being said, the only reason I'm bringing it up is not to be a shock jaw.
If I wanted to be a shock jaw, I could do it, right?
I think you could probably tell I'm being pretty careful in the way that I'm answering this question, but I'm bringing it up because the question was asked.
He specifically asked about fathers of daughters looking ahead towards fathers of older boys.
That's why I'm answering it because of that adjective right there older boys.
And I think that's probably what he's getting at.
I think he's recognizing my daughters will likely be ready for marriage.
At an age that is younger than the equivalent boy would be ready for marriage.
And I think that that's right.
Now, the tragedy with our current culture and society, some of this is just degeneracy.
Some of it is also just technological innovation, exasperating the fires of degeneracy.
But the problem is that in prior societies and cultures throughout Christendom in the West, a man could wait till he's 30 as he's getting his house in order, his livelihood.
His skills, his learning, these kinds of things to be a good protector and to be a good provider.
And he would battle over the course of that decade and a half from puberty, right, to being 28, 29, 30 years of age.
For a decade and a half, he would have to battle against sexual temptation.
But he would not be fully assaulted by nude women on every street corner with a device in his pocket.
I mean, it's every billboard, every commercial.
So it's difficult because here's.
Here's where we are for men.
This is why I have so much sympathy for young men.
Here's where we are as a society.
On the one hand, economically, we have exploited the younger generations, stealing from their future livelihoods and wealth in order to serve older generations, and GDP must go up.
So, economically, at the economic level, what we've done for young men is we have stretched, elongated, exasperated, made it to where they will not, in terms of the actual purchasing power of their dollar, When they come of age, they will not be able to afford provision for a family until later years.
Simultaneously, on the other side of the equation, we have made sexual temptation more accessible for younger ages of males.
So, your ability to marry and provide can't do that at 25 anymore.
We'll make it impossible.
Now, you're lucky if maybe by the time you're 30 or 35, you might be able to afford a down payment on the house.
Oh, but meanwhile, when you're 12, We'll make sure that pornography is one click away.
So now we've taken what already was not ideal, a decade and a half, and we said, let's double it.
Let's make it three decades of sexual temptation with no biblically permissible outlet.
Many of these men in the Middle Ages, there wouldn't have been a single outlet for that energy.
There would have been no woman in town that would have slept with them because they were all women under their father's roof.
There would have been no prostitution.
And they knew prostitution.
Those women at that time knew that sex meant children.
Right.
Right.
So they would have been there.
There was no pill.
So there's no one you could sleep with.
There was no brothel allowed in town.
There was no nude images to be proliferated.
That's right.
So a man had a decent setup that if he was going to wait till 30, he basically had his imagination.
He would have to wrestle with his thoughts, take every thought captive before the throne of Christ, just like anyone has to.
So there's still a battle, but not needed.
But that's a winnable battle.
That's a winnable battle.
In a small town where you're farming 80 hours a week.
That's right.
You can do that.
Versus today, 12 years old, 13 years old.
Not even being able to be married till 30.
So that's the difficulty.
On the one hand, if you're a father with young daughters and you're looking ahead, which is good and wise and proper, to find viable, godly suitors, husbands for your daughters, future husbands, you're probably recognizing on the one hand, I don't know if I want my daughter, I'm okay with her marrying at 18 years old, but I don't know if I want her to marry a man who's 18 years old.
Because let's just be honest, I know where that marriage is going to start.
It's going to start in the guest bedroom of my house.
That's where they're going to be living, and I'm going to be providing for them.
So, on the one hand, you're like, I don't know if I want them to marry a young man.
On the other hand, because we live in a degenerate society, and that degeneracy being more accessible than ever before because of the technological innovative side of the equation, you're saying, on the one hand, I need my daughter to have an older suitor who can provide.
But if she has an older suitor, it is like, Virtually an impossibility that he won't come with physical provision, yes, but sexual baggage also.
Supporting Right Response Ministries00:07:16
This is the world we've made.
This is the world we've made.
It's terrible towards men.
It's terrible towards women.
It's really, really sad.
And so there's a lot packed into that question.
And I think that that merits a longer episode.
Yeah.
Okay.
J Dog sent $20.
Thanks, J Dog.
As a young father of two, I would love to hear y'all do a deep dive on the when and how to go about providing an inheritance to our children.
Would you consider doing an episode on this topic?
God bless your ministry.
Absolutely.
That's another good topic.
Yeah, we'll do it.
Go ahead, Antonio.
HHS 9045 sent $10 and says, Are you familiar with the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies, Texas Area Association of Reformed Baptists, or the Confessional Baptist Association, CBARBCA?
How have they treated you?
I'm not familiar.
Are you?
I've heard of CBA and ARBCA maybe a couple times.
I know ARBCA.
I don't know much about them.
ARBCA would be, I'm pretty sure that's the Renahans, right?
James Dolezal, some of those guys.
I don't want to speak out of turn.
Maybe, maybe not.
I think so.
What I've read from them, I have read a few books from them All That Is in God, Dolizal, Divine Impassibility, Renahan, 1689, Federalism, those kinds of things.
In terms of Baptist covenant theology, there's as good as a Baptist can be on covenant theology.
I'll just leave it there.
And then on theology proper, they're as good as a Catholic.
Which is pretty good.
Those all went to Westminster.
We're talking about credentials and seminary.
That's what helps make him so good.
Catholics, you got to give them credit where credit's due.
Soteriology, we need some serious work.
Doctrine of God, theology proper.
Right?
Classic theism, Catholics have good theology proper.
And the ARPCA wing of Reformed Baptists are good on theology proper.
So I don't have anything negative to say about.
Some of those guys with the names that I would recognize.
I think we would probably have some serious differences when it comes to engaging culture and politics and those kinds of things.
But in terms of just systematic theology, I think they're pretty sharp.
Okay.
Kodak Joe sent $5.
He said, Tell that Mike guy, this was the question we answered at the very beginning of the Super Chats, to contact me about a pastor position.
Mike, if you email me, Wesley at Right Response Ministries.com, I'll go ahead and facilitate an introduction and we can see what the Lord works.
That's Wesley.
At rightresponseministries.com.
Send me an email.
Awesome.
Okay.
This is King Jerd.
King sent us $2 and said, Make arranged marriages great again.
So true.
So true, King.
It's actually his name.
It's not even cringy.
If your name is King Jerd and I respond by saying, So true, King, then it's not cringe.
It's just the proper response.
Funny chats earlier.
He's like, Hang on, guys.
I got to go ask my wife if I can listen to this podcast.
You know what I always think about?
Anytime we're talking about like male leadership, you know, masculinity, Roles, feminine roles, you know, and boss babes who claim to be against feminism while embodying all the tenets of feminism.
I always think of that one clip.
It's Ryan from The Office.
He's the intern with Michael Scott.
Oh, yeah.
And there's this one clip where he's like looking at the camera, you know, how The Office would have certain scenes where they're, you know, they step aside and they're looking at the camera and responding to, you know, implicitly to some question that the recording crew asked.
And he's talking about like Michael Scott and his leadership style in The Office.
And he says, I need you to lead me, like really lead me.
But don't boss me around.
You know, lead me when I want to be led.
And I feel like that just perfectly embodies complementarianism.
It perfectly embodies the conservative women of today.
You know, it's like, men, we need you to lead us.
And then the fine print is dot, dot, dot.
When we want to be led and how we want to be led.
When I'm good and ready for it.
With the tone that we want to be led.
Like, in other words, we actually don't want you to lead us.
We want to lead you in leading us.
We want you to feel like you led us, but it really was our idea.
That's kind of, that's.
They literally love the idea of it.
Oh, a strong man blazes the path.
But their own pride chokes them up whenever it comes down to it.
Well, he's flawed.
He did this in the past.
I just couldn't do it.
I love the idea.
I'll give lip service.
I want to be led.
But you literally never practically actually let your husband make the decision.
You don't love it.
Yep.
You don't love it.
Okay.
Let's see.
JD Peabody.
He gave us $10 and said, Kings.
God bless you.
We appreciate that, Peabody.
And then last one to round it out.
This dude rocks.
He gave us five more dollars.
We appreciate that.
He said, Good picks, Antonio.
We love Chucky Olives.
Pray for Tom.
Aspinall.
Aspinall, all right.
You take it.
Yeah, he says, pray for Tom Aspinall after getting done dirty with the eye poke and that he will return with justice.
This happened, I think, this past Saturday.
One of the champion, the heavyweight champion, was poked, double poked in the eye by the fighter, the challenger.
Yeah, and they called him.
Did he lose the eye?
No, but it was pretty bad from what I saw.
But yeah, anyway, they scrapped the fight and then they're going to fight again.
Hopefully, we'll see if he comes back with a vengeance.
Good call up.
Yep.
All right.
Well, thank you guys for tuning in.
That's all the super chats for today.
We appreciate your support, your generosity, your prayers, your encouragement.
All of it goes a very long way.
Keep supporting if you're able to do so.
Keep encouraging, keep praying.
Keep us, by the grace of God and through your assistance, keep us in the fight.
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