King Saul's consultation with a medium at Endor introduces a definition of witchcraft as intentionally teaming with dark supernatural powers, distinct from harmless natural remedies. The hosts trace this rise to the Enlightenment's rejection of God, creating a spiritual vacuum where demons return with greater force than in the Middle Ages. While modern mediums may be deceived into thinking they speak to ancestors, they often channel familiar spirits rather than genuine entities. Ultimately, the episode argues that genuine witchcraft involves real demonic power facilitated by rituals, challenging the notion that all supernatural claims are mere charlatanism. [Automatically generated summary]
Transcriber: CohereLabs/cohere-transcribe-03-2026, WAV2VEC2_ASR_BASE_960H, sat-12l-sm, script v26.04.01, and large-v3-turbo
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Witch of Endor Story00:03:39
In the biblical narrative found in 1 Samuel 28, King Saul, facing imminent battle and abandoned by God, sought guidance from a medium commonly referred to as the Witch of Endor.
Desperate, Saul disguised himself and consulted her to summon the dead prophet Samuel for counsel.
Despite initial hesitation, the medium successfully brought forth Samuel's spirit, startling both herself and Saul.
Samuel, in a prophetic message, foretold Saul's impending defeat in battle and his death.
Stories like this one permeate the annals of human history, from the necromantic mediumship of the Witch of Endor, to the prototypical witch covens of colonial North America, to the shamanistic practices of tribal witches deep in the jungles of Africa and beyond.
But what is witchcraft?
Why do the scriptures so strenuously forbid it?
Why are those who practice it guilty of a capital offense?
Join us in this episode as we discuss witches.
Witches get stitches.
Here we are.
Indeed.
Amen.
All right.
I could have said it better myself, Joel.
First, I think it's definitely important to say a bunch of witches today are hacks and it's just a show.
True.
But at the same time, if that's all you come away thinking, then you are being a fool.
You're a guesser.
Because witches are also real.
Yeah, because the scriptures don't forbid something and put you to death for it if it's just all fake.
Right.
Yeah.
It's not just a charlatan, but there actually is a demonic power there.
We can talk about Pharaoh and, you know, in Egypt and his magi and all these different things.
But another thing that just from the outset, we've mentioned this in another episode, but I do think we need to talk about what witches are, talk about familiar spirits, all those things.
But we also need to talk about witches are real.
And I think that they're on the rise.
And there's some legitimate theological reasons for that.
Joel, if you go right now, and we keep an eye on this just because it's our world.
If you go to the podcast charts on Apple Podcasts and you go to the religion and spirituality category, which Hanukkah's most podcast that we do is on that chart.
And we like to see how we do.
How's the episode doing?
Have we gotten to the top stats?
Like, are we competing?
Our peak is number eight.
Are we beating out the witches?
Number seven.
Yeah.
Number seven.
I tell you what, we've many times, we will be battling, vying neck and neck with podcasts that are modern witchcraft, that are, and I mean straightforward, join our coven.
We're going to teach you how to cast spells.
We're going to teach you how to curse people.
We're going to teach you how to manipulate the spiritual forces of the world and the spirit world to bless your family.
And it's largely.
Young ladies who are also happen to be raging feminists.
Yeah, and are voting for Joe Biden.
Fast.
And are voting for Joe.
It is a massive category.
To get on that chart, we know because we can see our download statistics.
All women need a husband.
That means that tens of thousands of people are listening to each episode of these witch podcasts to get them that high on the chart.
I mean, so you're right.
And I think you were going to say some theological things.
Well, the reason why I think it's on the right, there's a number of reasons, but one is because secular humanism and just Darwinism, materialism, post-modernity, modernity, everything that the Enlightenment gave us.
The Enlightenment was not good, by the way.
Dark Ages, the thing, you know, because the victors get to write the history books.
Amazing.
So the Dark Ages, great.
In objective terms, great.
The Enlightenment, absolute crap.
Degrees of Witchcraft Explained00:15:25
Terrible.
An absolute rebellion and turning away from God.
And we have been just further, progressively rebelling more and more ever since.
However, something significant is starting to change.
And the thing that's starting to change is that we're starting to realize, you know, well, why don't we classical liberalism even harder?
Well, It's not going to work, you know, our sacred democracy.
And then, what does democracy actually give you?
Well, it gives you an oligarchy because the more we've developed from a republic to a raw democracy, which the founders never intended, but that's what I think classical liberalism sadly devolves into.
What it does is it doesn't make all the people and their voice equal.
What it does is it gives you where now we have polls that have said, statistically speaking, that Taylor Swift will influence 20% of the national vote.
Yeah.
Yeah.
One person.
Because that's what a raw democracy doesn't make you everyone's equal.
It ascends those who have the most money or the most influence or the biggest voice or that, and they become oligarchs.
And so, my point is the enlightenment and all these kinds of things, the rejection of God's magical world and the embrace of not true reason, but a reason that suppresses God's truth, what that has given us is we've been running off the fumes of the Christian worldview, of a prior Christendom.
And what Jesus does is he kicks out demons.
So, like, even when Jesus comes in his earthly ministry 2,000 years ago to Israel, it's Israel is because of their faithlessness, Israel is overrun with demons to the point just as bad as the other demonic nations that surrounded them that they are previously at war with, if not worse.
They've got more demons than Moab and more demons than Egypt and more demons than Babylon.
I mean, everywhere Jesus goes, and that's not necessarily a descriptor of the whole world at all times.
No.
But in Israel at that time, yeah, there's a demon under every rock, because the generation, of Israelites that Jesus came to was uniquely demonic, uniquely rebellious against, against Christ, and Christ just starts kicking out all the demons yeah um, and then, and then, this great Christian gospel, hope goes throughout the world and for 2 000 years the leaven has been working through the batch of dough, the mustard seed has been growing into a great tree and and then,
just God's sovereignty alone and his kindness and mercy, he has been pleased to work in the leaven of the gospel deeply within the west.
Yeah, and the West has flourished for, for you know, at least 500 years, arguably a thousand years if we want to talk about Alfred, arguably 1500 years if we're going to go to Constantine, a very long time that a lot of dough working there yeah, a lot of, you know, leaven working through the dough in a positive way and giving us medicine and giving us this and giving us that and all these different innovations and inventions and and ultimately, essentially what i'm getting at is and casting out all the demons, and the demons are fleeing.
There's not a whole lot of demons in Europe um, because of at least, at least 200 years ago, because of the work of Christ.
Or in America, 100 years ago in the 1950s, not as many demons.
But they seem to be on the rise.
And the reason is one small simple reason.
Jesus says, when you cast out a demon, the man, the person that it was inhabiting is like a house and that it's swept clean and put in order and now empty.
But if it's not filled with something else, namely devotion to Christ, then what will happen is that that demon will go temporarily through arid, waterless spaces.
But eventually he'll come back.
And if the house is just swept clean and put in order, but it's not filled, then he'll come back and he'll come back with seven other demonic friends worse than himself so that the house, the state, the latter state of the man will be worse than the former.
And there's something to be said for not just the demons coming back, more demons coming back, but swept clean and put in order.
What has Christendom done in the West?
If the demons come back, demons would now be coming back with new friends.
Worse friends.
Hey, by the way.
With access to new friends.
We just answered a question that we had.
With access to this, access to that.
We just answered a question that we asked in the last episode.
Are they worse?
Are there gradations?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
Clearly.
Exactly.
So you're talking about more demons, so a worse demonic state than paganism before Christendom entered, but also with a swept clean and order situation because of what Christendom has given us.
So all this technological advances like demons and nukes, not a great combo.
So my whole point is to say, as we abandoned paganism because of Christ, Christendom, and the demons were kicked out.
But then we said, you know what?
We don't really need Christ.
We don't want the demons either, but we just want an empty, swept and put in order house.
Yeah.
In comes classical liberalism, in comes secular humanism, trash world.
Right, trash world.
And then what we're realizing is, well, the empty house doesn't work.
It's got to be filled with someone.
And now some are turning back to Christ, but then others are joining covens.
They're joining witch covens.
They're going to the old gods.
They're going back to the rise of paganism.
And the thing is, when we think about witches a lot of the time, and I know Ben, particularly, I think, can get us into some of this.
When we think about witches, the first thing we think about is the hat and the broom.
a very European kind of phenomenon.
But witchcraft itself is something that you see not only everywhere, but it's attendant.
It's a key constituent component of all of these demonic false religions and paganism.
So it's not just that you have like witches in colonial America and that was the only manifestation.
When you get worship of Thor and Odin and when you get, you know, in the Scandinavian and Germanic peoples and when you get the worship of the river gods in Peru and in the jungles of, you know, Africa.
Attendant with that is some form of witchcraft where you have either a male witch or a female witch that is going to be a part of that economy of worship.
So, when you think witches, the first thing listeners need to understand, or I guess I'm used to saying listeners as a podcaster and viewers, viewers need to understand is that witchcraft is something that attends all of these things that come back with demonic false worship.
I would like to just start playing with witches and you get.
Yeah, you get demons.
Yeah, well, that's that's I would like to define witchcraft.
Yeah, let's let's great, it's very important.
We need to because you're right, but if you're doing witchcraft, you're already playing with demons.
Yes, so there's what it is.
If I could put a like a sentence definition on witchcraft, it would be purposefully teaming up with supernatural power, dark power, yeah, in order to achieve ends that are contrary to nature or the direction of where nature's going.
So that's what that's how I would immediately define witchcraft, for example.
You're usually using witchcraft in order to curse someone else so that their crops don't grow, so that their health doesn't improve.
They don't have babies.
So that they don't have children, so that the children they do have are taken away and killed, or you're taking their children away, killing them, consuming them, so that you get the life that they're owed, and you steal the purity and the life.
Say that definition again.
That was so good.
I would say that the formal definition of witchcraft is being purposefully in league, With dark supernatural powers, dark powers, in order to achieve ends contrary to nature, yeah.
So, the United States government, yes, including the blessing because it's not a negative.
I mean, but here's the important, including the blessing of abortion, of bad things, like the witch saying, Get me blessing, yes, but not earned blessing that's reaping and sowing in God's world.
There's two degrees of witchcraft.
The Navajo understood this.
There's the one that just says, I want everything good for me.
Right.
There's a greedy witch.
Yeah.
And then there's the, which is malicious.
But then there's the overtly malicious, malicious witch, which is, I don't necessarily care about anything good for me, but nothing good can happen to anyone else.
You just destroy the world.
Yes.
So they want to see the world burn.
They are the joker.
Some men just want to see it.
Yeah.
This is my Jeremy Wade thing.
Oh, yeah.
That I've was, this is the perfect place for it.
So can I just say something real quick?
Dude, my guy.
Dude, this is the perfect place.
You are my guy.
You are so hateful.
I trust you.
Like you're hateful.
I look in your eyes and I trust you guys can take it.
Listen, you guys, it's funny, but you were literally matching.
And to say those things while wearing the same shirt and the same jacket.
I know.
Well, that makes it worse.
We're just vibe all the time.
That makes it worse.
You're so locked in.
You're my guy in each other while wearing the same outfit.
We're always locked in.
If David is Jonathan, I think you know who's that.
But then making a case of why it's wrong to go against nature, it feels hypocritical.
Yeah, I mean, one associated with the song.
The scene, yeah.
I just want to say.
People already think that we're brothers.
Stop calling yourself David.
Dude, I am going to continue to call myself.
David, Matt Chandler.
Matt Chandler.
Get out of it.
Matt, now Neil deGrasse Tyson in the other episode.
Matt Chandler's a bad guy.
I'm so ashamed of myself for positively quoting Matt Chandler.
Hey, no.
I shouldn't have done that.
But you know now.
You should try to be like David, though.
Yeah, you should.
I am David.
You are supposed to be like David.
Of course.
Okay, so what I was going to say real quick is part of the reason that I say that formal definition is because emphasis on intentional league with dark forces.
Yeah.
Witchcraft demands that you are intentionally in league with dark supernatural beings.
If you're not, it's not witchcraft.
It might not be good.
Yeah, it might be something bad, and it usually involves pharmacea and the use of.
Yeah, I was gonna say you got to bring in the pharmacea.
It did not not.
Not, we're gonna get to that.
We're gonna get into in a full episode real quick and and that's probably gonna come after this episode but join our Patreon you can get early access a whole thing on DMT.
Yeah, because it's usually not always, but usually uh it, it includes the use of pharmacea in order to commune with the supernatural force.
It's the bridge.
What I was gonna say is the telephone.
Part of the reason that's so important is because uh, because witchcraft is sort of in the zeitgeist right now, where it is coming back.
Genuine witchcraft yeah, it really is.
You also get a lot of Christians that seem to think that anything they don't understand is witchcraft.
Yeah.
Okay.
If you use essential oils to help protect your family from the cold, literally, you're not a witch.
You're a witch.
You're doing potions.
You're not a witch.
No, no, no, no.
What you are saying is not witchcraft.
If you say that.
Witches do brew up certain things and attempt these kind of talismanic curses and things like that.
But the key constituent part is they're doing that at the behest of these supernatural powers that are leading.
And here's the thing.
They're also doing that because it works.
Sometimes mixing things in nature to achieve a certain end that seems contrary to nature works because we live in a cursed world and they're being guided by supernatural forces that are more learned than they are.
They have knowledge.
I'm really mad when you get this like functional Anabaptist that comes in and says, well, anything I don't understand is just bad.
Stop.
I don't want to ask you to be the Pope.
They do it in the natural health world sometimes.
Yes.
And they're like, homeopathy is not witchcraft.
I talked about grounding in another episode where the idea that maybe your body being in circuit electronically, literally with the earth. Can produce good things, which this is not witchcraft, everybody.
Look at the head of the house real quick.
When you say good things, you're not saying manifest like you'll get a job.
I mean, like physical effects that you were made to be in contact with your health, like lower blood pressure.
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So, let me present two scenarios just real quick.
This is kind of a rant, and then you'll go.
I promise to be quick.
So, one scenario Ben just said, Joel, look at my eyes.
I am the captain.
No, I mean, we're talking about.
With witches and fairies, it's like Ben's in charge.
Okay, let's just real quick.
I'm here for it.
I happen to be here.
Thanks for inviting me.
Thank you, Joel.
Go ahead.
It's really just an honor to watch you, Joel.
So there's two real scenarios of people that I either know or know of.
Okay, the first scenario is this a loving Christian wife who is good to her husband and loves her children.
And she is also into homeopathy.
And she seeks to find natural remedies for things.
Okay.
And this might include trying things that seem a little strange, like wrapping copper wire around a stick and putting it into dirt to try to make your crops grow a little bit better.
That just works, by the way.
Because it just works.
Actually, you should do that.
Okay.
And then maybe it's also like, well, I'm going to try to mix these oils together because I know that this one is supposed to have this property.
And it's done in faith that God will bless the good works that she's trying to cultivate a healthy family and a healthy home.
Okay.
Here's another scenario a single woman who hated.
God, always a single woman.
She votes for Joe Biden.
She hates men.
She's a fornicator.
She likes she's probably a lesbian okay, but but I've seen this happen.
Short hair in order to make her overweight yeah well, actually not in this case.
She's actually quite attractive in order to make her life, but she will eventually become ugly.
Yes, because you make yourself up, you become.
You're not born.
People aren't born, they're made okay.
So say it again one more time, ugly.
People aren't born, they're made.
That's a motto, praise God, and I know I'm saying that.
That's like a four out of ten.
That's powerful.
I could have been a, Too.
We're trying.
But sanctification has gotten me to a hard four.
Praise God.
Exactly.
Except I have, whatever.
So there's a woman who, much like the first woman, is going to try to use something that she finds in nature to achieve some end.
Except this time, she's going to use blood that comes from her body.
Okay.
Please don't elaborate.
No, I'm not.
And she's going to pour it into the earth as an offering to Gaia, Mother Earth, so that.
She might not be fertile because she doesn't want children.
Or similar scenario, a woman who gets an abortion, which is just witchcraft, by the way.
It's an offering to the goddess of fertility that your life might be well and flourishing.
But someone who gets an abortion and keeps the child who's been murdered and then offers that to the earth.
Yeah, it literally happens.
In the form of a shrine or they burn the child.
Particularly.
That's witchcraft.
That is intentional partnership.
Shamanic Offerings to Gaia00:09:48
With forces of darkness.
I appreciate you painting the polar ends because that does.
Now that you say it like that.
And frankly, usually they're on psychedelics.
The extra virgin olive oil being mixed with a few spices does seem a bit different.
Well, here's what it brings.
It's important to say that because we can draw a distinction between the two.
You start to get into like some of the natural health world or whatever, and you don't have to, whatever.
I don't care if you're into it or not.
Yeah, you don't have to be.
Some Christians will look at that first example and they're pretty much like double, double toil and trouble, fire, bird, and cauldron bubble.
Like you're literally the witches in Shakespeare all of a sudden.
I'll put it this way you're not going to be a witch accidentally.
See, that's the thing.
You're not going to be so often worried about.
It's like the whole thing with, you know, if, oh my, if you guys listen to this episode of Hanukkah's Mosque where they talk about sleep paralysis, you're going to start getting sleep paralysis.
No, you won't.
Simply read your Bible, pray every day, and the dead, like you'll be, you're going to resist the devil and you'll sleep.
Is the spirit that keeps the witches away?
Is the spirit that rose Christ from the dead not in you?
Yeah, like, is he that weak?
And he's greater than, yeah.
Oh, no, I heard about sleep paralysis.
See, these are, this is what I mean about the superstition.
It can get into us too, where we begin to think of things like cooties and like, I'm unintentionally going to get it on me, the talismanic view.
Instead of recognizing, this was Paul's fundamental supposition when he said that all things are made holy by the word of God in prayer, talking about meat sacrificed to idols.
Eat anything in the meat market without question of conscience.
Why?
Because they may have sacrificed that to Aphrodite.
I don't care.
God made the meat.
And he made it for you to eat.
So you don't go worship Aphrodite.
No.
But you can't eat the meat.
Thank God over the steak.
Eat it with a clean conscience because Christ killed Aphrodite.
Christ has conquered and triumphed over that demon.
And her blood is now foam on the sea.
There you go.
Mermaids.
Full circle.
Check it out.
Mermaids.
So are we ready for this?
So yeah, look, you're not going to accidentally be a witch.
Go.
Okay.
So to your point about in league with supernatural forces to achieve unnatural ends, often aided by, we'll get into this, but pharmacea substances that are used kind of like the telephone connection to get in touch with the demon or also ritualistic practices.
These talismanic or superstitious practices that are meant to invoke the demon or get them there.
And they work.
That's why they do them.
They either work because naturally they work and there's something about it, or because the demons know and they make it work because you think it's going to work.
Whichever one that is, is kind of beside the point.
Jeremy Wade is an extreme angler.
Dude, extreme river monsters.
One of the greatest television shows on.
It's an amazing show.
He ended the show because he had caught every river monster, every freshwater giant fish.
There were no more to catch.
He accomplished his goal.
Really, really Chad King kind of guy.
I mean, just like old guy.
He'd been arrested by like communists as a spot.
Like he's fished everywhere in the world, but I think an atheist or at least some kind of agnostic.
Right.
So he approaches these, he goes into these remote areas of India, Africa, South America, et cetera.
And he encounters tribal people all the time.
He approaches them kind of the way that atheistic nature documentaries do.
Oh, look at, look at the, you know, behold the primitive.
Practices of the natives in their natural house worships.
They fear the river god that might, you know, deny them their food for the week.
So he goes into these and he participates regularly in shamanistic witchcraft where he he's not.
There are several instances where he's not.
Classic atheist l huh.
He is not catching the giant fish that he's been trying for weeks to catch.
Okay, and at several points in the show he'll be like.
Now what they would used to do is they would go in and they would go to the shaman and say, bless my fishing.
So he'll take his fishing pole to the shaman, Who will use often, substances, get in touch with his demons and say, please help this white guy, for whatever reason, catch this fish.
They gave me enough.
And then he gets the shaman, you pay the shaman.
Like that's how it works.
Right.
And he's like the middleman.
Right.
I'm not kidding.
When he does this, it works.
The next day, several times, Jeremy Wade goes out and he will catch the fish, giant, you know, Goliath tigerfish or some giant Asian, you know, catfish that he's trying to get.
Not just once, several times in the show.
And people that are watching, he'll then be like, you know, they do the whole dramatic thing.
Was there something to the shaman's work?
And I'm like yelling at the TV.
I'm like, yes, and stop.
The demons are helping you catch the fish, contrary to nature.
Yeah.
They're helping you to achieve this highly improbable end because you've given an offering to the demons.
Yes.
So even atheists that don't really believe, it's like in The Last Battle when the Kellerman summon Tash, whom they don't believe in.
Right.
And they get Tash.
They get Tash.
And he shows up.
To me, that was such a light bulb moment in the witchcraft discussion because I'm looking at this thing that doesn't look like my conception of witchcraft.
Right.
This man, shaman kind of man.
And I realized.
It ticks all the boxes.
Oh, that's what the Old Testament is talking about when it talks about witches.
Yeah.
That's what's happening right here.
And it worked.
So, in Iceland, that's amazing, by the way.
I mean, what a crazy thing.
Yeah.
In Iceland, most of the witches are men, are men, male witches.
And especially as Protestantism started to make waves into Iceland, it was almost completely a male population of witches.
And what they would do is they would take some substance that's bad and they would carve runes into a rock.
This goes back to the talisman discussion earlier.
They'd carve runes into a rock and then they would ritualistically cut themselves and pour their blood over the runes as they recited incantations to the god or to their familiar spirit.
We can talk about what that is.
And then now this talismanic rune monument served to contain the power that they were asking for such that when they wanted to exercise that power, they could recite the runes back.
And since they gave their life to the rune, because the life is in the blood right, and everyone knows this not, it's not.
Everyone knows that this is true, right?
Uh, since the life is in the blood, he gave his life to this power so that he could have it back when he needed it.
Yeah, so he, he gave an offering to the god and have it amplified by dark forces.
Yes, exactly so.
It's in league with dark forces.
It ends contrary to nature, but it's oftentimes using tools that are already in nature, right?
Yeah, that are then amplified and twisted by the dark forces.
Familiar spirit.
Yeah, we got to talk about this is this is important to understand, The cold opening passage from 1 Samuel about why the medium is surprised.
And she wasn't surprised because she was a charlatan who never did anything real.
She was surprised because.
Right.
Because, okay, so the reason that we know that she wasn't a charlatan, or we can safely assume she wasn't a charlatan, is because God doesn't give capital punishment for wasting time.
That doesn't fit.
God says, You shall not suffer a witch to live, not because they're just lazy, but because they're making the demons.
They're doing egoism.
Yeah, they're necromanizing.
summoning the unclean spirits back to the land that God is supposed to sanctify and drive out.
And here they're bringing them back.
Yeah.
So we have this legitimate witch.
Saul knows about her after he had driven out the witches and necromancers.
She begins practicing again.
And he's like, well, she's a real one.
That one works.
So she goes there.
And the reason that she's surprised is because of a thing called familiar spirits.
The text reads strangely if you don't understand this feature.
Because Samuel's ghost comes up.
She is shocked and afraid.
That means two things.
One, she recognizes the ghost as Samuel's ghost.
Right.
And two, she wasn't expecting Samuel's ghost.
Right.
Even though that's exactly what she was asking for.
But she was expecting a ghost.
That's the thing.
We know.
But one that was familiar.
Since we know she wasn't a charlatan, we know that she was expecting something.
So what was she expecting?
Well, familiar spirit, which is the particular unclean, evil, demonic spirit, whatever you want to call it, that the witch latches him or herself to that aids them in accomplishing these things on a regular basis.
So ongoing partnership.
Yes.
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Salem Trials and Tallow00:11:15
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So, the other example that I like to bring up is also in the Bible, and it's in Exodus.
And it's when you have the first wizarding battle in history that's documented.
And that is between Moses and the Egyptian Magi, where Moses goes before Pharaoh, the staff becomes a serpent.
The Magi also make serpents out of their staffs.
And it's not smoking meat.
And by the way, the word for serpent is tannin, which is like a six headed dragon.
And by the way, also, Prince of Egypt, the whole thing where they make it look like they're just faking it.
Right.
That's what they do.
It drives me nuts.
Yeah, I don't like that.
Yeah.
That's not what the text says.
The text says that they did the same thing.
They could do it until.
And so then Moses' serpent eats theirs, which is really just amazing.
So they both have power, but one is superior.
Right.
But then something else happens.
They both have real power.
And then the next day, the Lord says that he's going to strike the Nile and turn it to blood.
And so he does.
And the magicians can also do that.
They can also kill the Nile River God and fill the water with blood.
And then the next day, or the next plague, is the frogs.
And the frogs happen, and the Egyptian magi can also do the frog thing.
Yeah, like we got frogs too.
We can do frogs too, but then they can't do anything else.
The magician witches, the Egyptian witches.
Yeah, the Egyptian witches, baby, who are gonna get stitches.
Their firstborn are all killed.
The Egyptian witches finna get stitches.
Yeah.
But after the frogs, so after the second flag, they can't.
They're like pound for pound in the first.
They're not pound for pound because they're going to be all taken.
Yeah.
Yahweh's is all taken.
And also, Moses is like not in.
This is not his thing.
These guys are like professionals.
Yeah, right.
It'd be like if you were getting into like a chess battle with Magnus Carlsen.
Supposedly, these are like the witches for the king of the whole empire.
Like they are the elite.
And then there's this guy that was raised in the courts, but he's been out in the wilderness.
He hasn't studied this stuff.
This is Gironi.
He's been in medias.
He doesn't know all the runes and the rituals and the stuff.
He's just been, you know.
Right.
So they're kind of matched.
It gives one reason to believe that Pharaoh wasn't a total idiot for hardening his heart afterwards.
Because he's like, well, my magicians can do something.
He's like, I could do something.
Okay.
After the frogs, the Egyptian magi can no longer do it.
And the reason is the frog plague was a direct assault on Egyptian fertility.
The frog was the symbol of Egyptian fertility because the frog, anytime the Nile flooded its banks and provided a great crop yield, all the frogs would put their eggs closer to the Egyptian houses.
And so, at the time of great harvest and great yield, you would see a lot of frogs.
Because their agrarian economy worked that the Nile flooded on a regular basis.
They counted on it every day.
That's how it irrigated their crops.
So, they'd see more frogs when there's more irrigation, and they'd be like, ah, fertility, frogs.
So, they had the goddess of fertility, just like every other ancient culture has a goddess of fertility.
And she was a frog because they associated that.
But here's the other thing every other ancient goddess of fertility was somehow, one way or another, whether it's herself or the consort that's with her, is also the goddess of witchcraft.
And necromancy.
In Egypt, the, and her name escapes me, but the goddess of fertility is also the goddess of witchcraft.
And so what's happening is God is judging the goddess of fertility and witchcraft in Egypt.
It's so good.
And after he does that, the Egyptian magi can't keep up.
The witchcraft stops working.
They don't do witchcraft anymore.
So it's just so perfect.
They're amazing.
Their familiar spirit was killed.
And it was like, and now they are charlatans.
Now they're left with nothing.
Right.
Even in Acts, the example I gave in another episode of the, The spirit of prophecy that Paul cast out of the young girl.
The slave girl.
That was her familiar spirit, essentially.
And you can see how it would function.
It also, like I've heard a story of a medium where a lot of the time the mediums, modernly, you can go to mediums today.
And some of them are total charlatans that do cold reading and all of that and mentalism.
But I think some of them are real.
And what they're doing is they have a familiar spirit, a demon, that will go and be able to find stuff out about people living or dead.
It has knowledge that is beyond the capacity of this person.
So, they will say things like, if you go to a medium, oh, I see a man coming into the room.
Do you have a recently deceased grandfather?
Something like that.
The name Dave is coming to mind.
My grandfather was David.
He just died.
Well, he wants me to tell you that Susan, his wife, is going to be okay.
And Susan, sure enough, is on her deathbed or in hospice care.
And he's waiting.
He's gotten ready.
He's going to help her through to the other side.
And death is really just another part of the chapter.
Yeah.
So, the familiar spirit will be pretending.
And I think sometimes the medium is not even familiar with what's really happening.
Pun, not intended.
But the medium doesn't even necessarily know.
Sometimes they're equally deceived into thinking they're actually talking to all these different things.
And maybe they're not some of the time, but it's the same thing that was happening in Acts, that was happening in Egypt.
It's all the same thing.
It's a familiar spirit giving them power and also giving them knowledge that they ought not have.
And you know what's really interesting?
A lot of people misunderstand this.
They think that the Middle Ages were filled with witch trials.
They weren't.
They weren't.
The Renaissance was filled with witch trials.
I wonder why.
And it's because they rejected God in the Renaissance.
But the Middle Ages, there were virtually no witch trials.
And what few there were, were incredibly measured, sober minded, and very few people were ever executed for witchcraft.
And so I believe that those people were rightly executed for witchcraft.
But in the Middle Ages, because Christendom was so potent, Christendom was so, Christ's gospel had permeated all of Europe.
There are virtually no documented witch trials that happen.
And then in the Renaissance, you see a massive uptick.
And it's because that was really the genesis that led to the Enlightenment.
Right.
Where they fully rejected God.
Yes.
But even in the Renaissance, they started to, I think, rightfully reclaim classicism, but in a way that was a little bit too, yeah, they took a little bit too much liberty with it.
And so you start to see this rejection of, you know, the altar in your heart.
Right.
But it's a swept home.
And so now you have the Pembrokeshire witch trials.
And then you have the Salem witch trials over in America.
All of these things are, I think, worth investigating right and are usually mixed bags.
Yeah yeah, they're.
They're almost never.
When you come into these stories some of those really were they're almost never like this uh, historical tale where it's like one guy did everything perfectly right right, and the other guy was just like literally a cackling you know witch guy with the wart and the you know and every in the black cat and everything.
It's like that's just not how well.
Think about how confusing stuff actually of a time that must have been right yeah, like right now it's actually a little bit easier to see like, oh, that trash world, that's real bad.
Well, and part of it also is like, so at that time, as you're settling in the Americas and you're thinking of like Salem witch trial, those kinds of things, is that you've got a lot of Christendom going on, but you do have the Renaissance and Enlightenment starting to foil everything.
But then you also have geographically, going back to some fairies, you know, and elemental spirits and those kinds of things, you have a new place, a new place where Christendom has not yet been.
A new place where it's been the only people group that's been there that's dominated the place are completely pagan, indigenous people who to do DMT, the natural version, you know, and commune with demons.
So there's some elements going on there.
The Puritans fully believed that when they were coming over to the new world, they were coming over to a world in which the spiritual warfare was raging, and they would have to throw down.
Yeah, they were going to have to go full Rohan in charge.
And maybe they threw down a little bit too much in Salem.
Yeah, I think they did.
But also, they threw down an appropriate amount, some too.
Ben did a series.
It's actually going to be released in our main feed.
Yeah, but it was originally a dusty tome, but it's like five parts.
Yeah, four parts on Salem trials.
On Salem, but then a primer on witches before that.
Yeah.
But what they thought was that when they cleared out a settlement, if you went beyond the walls of that settlement, you were now in the realm of the devil because Christ's lordship had not been proclaimed yet there.
So a lot of people today will hear stories about how the people in Salem would look down on those who spent a lot of time in the woods because they were so stupid.
No, it's because they lived in a world that we live in where you are matters spiritually.
And so they were like, why are those people spending so much time in the realm of the devil?
Maybe it's because they like the devil.
Maybe they love Satan.
And the guys, some of them are like, we just needed firewood.
But that's part of why they took this so seriously.
Because they actually were in the midst of dark forces that had to be driven out.
And so they couldn't have any turncoats.
Anyone in their midst that was willing to go in league with those dark forces, God was right.
You shall not suffer a witch to live.
And they couldn't afford to suffer the witches to live.
And so I think that Salem is an example of something that probably started very legitimate, but then because other people are also sinful, quickly blew out of proportion.
They did not suffer a witch to live, definitely didn't suffer a witch to vote.
Yeah, that's so true.
Are we doing an episode on that?
No, no.
All right, well, let's go ahead and end there.
I feel like that's fantastic for witches.
Talked about familiar spirits, but also just referencing some other episodes.
If you want to talk, get a little bit more information on elemental spirits and fairies, check out the episode on fairies.
Check out the episode on Bigfoot.
Also, check out the episode on angels and ghosts.
Really?
And I think that covers it all.
And Hollow Earth.
Why not?
And Hollow Earth, throw it in.
But then also, in terms of back, this will be kind of one further step that we're going to do with witches.
So those are going back and getting some stuff.
But going further would be bringing some of the DMT to the table.
So that'll be the next one.
We'll be doing that next.
All right.
God bless.
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