My name is Rick Weibel, and I'm subbing in for Mike Lindell again tonight.
We are hoping that Mike will join us later on this evening.
But also remember to look up the Lindell plan at lindelplan.com.
Tonight, I have a special guest, Jill Kaufman, out of Wyoming.
We have some additional breaking news out of Wyoming that has been pretty interesting over the last couple of days.
And we want to take a little bit more of an in-depth as to kind of what happens during the logic and accuracy test.
So that way you know what to expect in your state and kind of some of the discussions that are happening out there as to what people believe is happening, what we're actually finding out in evidence.
And as we now have six counties out of Wyoming that we've been able to review, the clock is ticking to where we only have seven days to take corrective action before basically next Tuesday's evening two-week deadline before the election within your state statutes.
And so what's really interesting is that kind of when we started this whole program, we actually thought things were going to be a lot better than what we discovered.
And so we were hoping to kind of find compliance because your state statutes actually have penalties surrounded your statutes when election officials in your state, typically they're county clerks.
Other states, they would be called county auditors or election officials.
In your state, for example, any type of violation, there's either misdemeanors or felonies that are levied when they're not following the election statutes themselves.
And your state's one of the rare states that you actually don't have basically a protection for when the statutes expire.
And so there is no end game into this.
And so there's no statute of limitations.
That's what I was trying to search for.
And so it actually makes your state really interesting and probably really troubling.
And you're one of the rare states that actually requires your clerks to actually hold a bond as well, correct?
That is correct.
Yes, it has.
We've been really, really trying to work with the communities and the clerks to help them, I guess, be knowledgeable of that.
They tend to be in a not receptive mode.
We have tried many, many times.
Like the first part in the primary, we had, they did the normal testing and all the counties failed.
And then our Secretary of State asked for them to retest, although it was after the 15 or the two-week period.
And like you said, we're coming up pretty close to the seven-day mark.
So we're at a six for six that haven't passed yet in the general.
So we're up in the air of what's going on.
They tend to be a little arrogant.
I'm sad for that because some of them are really good people, but they're just kind of caught into, and this is my opinion only, into the associations that are trying to guide them and direct them.
Yeah.
And what's really interesting too is that your county, Malcolm, he is kind of the chair of the association for the clerks.
I do want to give him credit that when I came out to Wyoming, he attended one of the first presentations where we looked at kind of setting up the first ever logic and accuracy test using prime numbers across the ballot to have unique numbers.
And it helped him basically create a different number for each one of the positions within the election.
But then the oversight came in when the overvotes weren't properly tested in all cases.
And I believe.
And then I believe not all of the ballot styles were properly tested sufficiently enough.
Correct.
Correct.
That's what we found out.
And I think even today we had another conference call with you and another person.
And I was struggling to describe to this person who couldn't visually see it.
And I think she represents a large portion of voters out there that they don't understand the differences and how important it is.
And so I had to kind of ask her, well, what's your background?
So I could try to relate to her so that she could have a mental image of how different things are in her world.
And so she's a farmer and she basically dealt with grains like wheat.
And then I said, well, do you have any neighbors there that basically do corn?
And she very gently reminded me that Wyoming is a very harsh climate and that there's a lot of hard soil and kind of high 5,000 foot desert up there.
So it's a little bit harsher climate.
But I was still able to kind of relay.
We have two different ballot styles in most of the United States.
And we have the standard ballot, the one with the ovals.
And so if we think of that like a battleship coordinate system that, you know, boom, you know, it's, or even bingo, you know, it's B5.
That's where that oval is being filled in and that represents a candidate.
And then that goes, the computer interprets that and dumps it into a bucket.
The other side of the ballot are the ones that are barcodes.
And so it's not reading a location of where that barcode is.
It's actually reading the barcode itself to understand which candidate was selected.
And so that is a different program and it goes into a different bucket over here.
And so when we have those two buckets kind of working together at the end, then that's what creates the totals.
And so when we see ballot styles out there where there are two and we see in this in the detail report and the summer reports where there's only one vote cast for a candidate, that's an either or situation.
That means you only selected the candidate on one ballot or the other ballot.
And so that means it was tested on the one side, but not evaluated on the other side.
And so to explain that, I kind of failed a little bit.
And hopefully the viewers here can kind of understand that.
And so when we look at bushels of wheat on one side and bushels of corn on the other side, when we were supposed to deliver the results to the store to get paid, we only delivered the bushels of wheat.
And so, of course, we only got the one vote and only got paid for the one side versus we ignored the corn over here and that went nowhere.
And so, of course, we didn't get paid for it.
And we see that in the results that we only got paid for one thing.
And sometimes when clerks do the second test where there's two votes, it's hard for us just looking at the reports to determine whether or not both ballot styles were actually tested.
But because that one sits there, that's what kind of gives us the clue that they failed.
And then again, today we saw a county that we won't name, and this was literally within the last 30 minutes.
We got another county, and they did really well in the first part of the report, but it wasn't until like the 45th page that all of a sudden we see, uh-oh, there are some candidates where their votes are matching the write-in.
And so that's problematic because we need to ascertain to make sure that there aren't basic programming mistakes.
I don't know, Jill, have you ever mistyped anything?
I do that multiple times.
I can't spell with anything.
Right.
And me too.
And that's why I'm not a programmer because I know I'm terrible at it and I just can't afford the criticism of it.
You've seen some of my typing mistakes.
And so I apologize for that up front.
But the reality is I would need that oversight.
And this is where it's really interesting that the oversight really just isn't there.
And I really feel that these systems are built to fail.
And my heart kind of goes out to a lot of these election officials because when we look at the timeline that we are affording our election officials to basically go in and do a proper test, especially in these larger counties, I hate to say this.
It's kind of not possible, even with the new standard that we try to do, which was to break up the ballot into two sections with the prime numbers.
And so that would get us down to 50 ballots in Minnehaha's case in South Dakota.
It took a group of seven volunteers four and a half hours to fill out 50 ballots for 11 precincts.
And Minnehaha County has 90 precincts.
Oh, wow.
That's one ballot style.
So we hadn't touched the other 79 ballot styles of the precincts.
And we hadn't touched the secondary ballot style of the express vote machines yet.
And when you think of the time that it takes to fill in an oval versus the time to go to an express vote, load in the card, touch the screens, go from screen to screen, it takes more time to use the express vote system than it does to fill out a ballot.
And so with those delays and extra work that's needed on an express vote machine, that's devastating.
So if in Minneha's case, we would have to fill out 4,500 ballots just on the standard ballot, and then potentially at least 4,000 ballots on the express vote side.
And so that is really disheartening and devastating when you think of the amount of work that it would take.
And so if we were to ask your counties to do this, if one of them had 90 precincts and we said, okay, it takes 28 hours to do this for a group of seven people, we'll just say four hours.
And if you're the only one there, it's impossible for you to get that done in time.
If you have seven employees to basically sit there and do this, it's going to take them all week to get it done.
And they still haven't had an opportunity to go to the express vote to get that done.
Isn't that just devastating?
It is just mind-boggling on this and so much effort and time.
I know Malcolm was saying that he had put an extensive amount of time filling out the ballots.
And I don't remember exactly how many ballots.
I was guessing it was, I want to say 300 plus, somewhere around in there, just for our small county.
And he was saying that they had done it over multiple days.
And I believe there was three of them.
So it took a long time.
And the thing that just kind of mind boggles me is this is so very critical to get these test decks done to see if our machines are even functioning correctly.
And then if you get to the, if you ever get to that point, which Wyoming has not, then you have to go to the point of all the other problems that are on our systems.
We have Windows update that hasn't been updated.
We have antivirus that hasn't been updated since 2022.
So it's almost a whack-a-mole.
You know, I see us focusing a lot of this energy on these test decks when it's just one of many vulnerabilities that our machine is.
And for some reason, we're not able to instill this information into the correct people, so to speak, I guess.
We just keep talking and talking and talking and sharing this information.
I'm so grateful for you, whether it's one person or a group of 100 and 200 people.
It doesn't matter.
We just continually try to get this information out.
And I'm grateful for that.
And it's frustrating.
It's very frustrating.
It is frustrating.
And I think it's like, I don't want to say I'm disillusioned.
I'm still hopeful that we're going to be okay and have solid elections.
But there's going to have to be a lot of coming to the table from the other side to basically regain my trust in it because everything that I've seen out there, I see the vulnerabilities.
I have first-hand knowledge.
I have first-hand experience.
You and I spent time a couple of Thursdays ago up in Campbell County and watched for a full day that logic and accuracy test.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Was it 27 or 30, 37 precincts?
37.
Or excuse me, 27 precincts.
27.
Well, the test was 27.
Sorry.
Yep, 27 precincts.
And in all 27 precincts, the county clerk had 29.
She started out with 30 standard ballots.
Then she took a ballot off of that pile and had her team go in and vote on the express vote machines to create the barcode ballot.
Then she set us, her entire team set aside that ballot that they grabbed from the pile of 30 and then place the express vote ballot on the remaining pile of 29 to get the 30 back.
But was absolutely heartbreaking was asking her, are you going to do the rest of them?
And are you going to bring that ballot back in that you removed?
She didn't.
She didn't do anything on that.
The team loads in the 30 ballots, which included the one express vote ballot.
And right away we see in the results of the DS200 that there was one vote for Trump.
And then on all the ballot initiatives and judicial retention, there was one vote in the affirmative.
And it was only on the express vote ballot that it was tested.
And so on the standard ballot, the Trump vote and all of the ballot initiatives in the judicial retention elections were not tested because they only had the one vote.
And so they were not tested on the standard ballot.
And that's devastating.
And that was horrifying.
Yeah.
And to see that.
And talk about the other things that you witnessed there in the testing room of, now let's think about the other inputs in the express vote.
So this is going to be a story that resonates with the East Coast, with the Express Vote, because so many of them don't vote on paper ballots with the ovals.
They use the Express Vote touchscreens to place their votes.
Talk about some of the other features that you observed there and the lack of testing.
Yeah, well, we had noticed that they had, we're testing quite a few of them.
I believe it was 18 or 21.
I don't quite remember.
But they put in these ballots or were putting it in from this one ballot and they were only doing the touch screen.
There was three of them, two or three of them that they actually put the headphones on to see if it was deciphering the name correctly.
I didn't see any of them use the joystick.
I did see them use the little keypad that I saw them putting in, but that was only three of them.
So the rest of those machines, we have no idea whether they were functional or not.
So that was disturbing.
And we observed that.
And then the other thing that I thought was quite interesting is when they put them away in their different bags, a lot of them weren't even including the earphones that we saw that were not in the bag.
So maybe they don't have that option out in the public aspect, which, you know, could be a good thing, could be a bad thing.
I don't know.
I just think they should have tested it all in case someone is there that needs that, that can't, that needs to hear or get a name deciphered.
So I think that was very important.
In our county yesterday, or when we did our accuracy testing, we noticed that our clerk supposedly he said that they tested all of them prior to the public testing.
And I asked some questions on that.
And I says, well, did you check the joystick?
Did you check the keypad?
Did you, you know, the audio?
And he goes, yeah, yeah, we did that on all of them.
And I said, but isn't that supposed to be in the public test?
And he says, well, you can just take my word for it that we got it tested.
I was a little nervous for that one.
I'm, you know, I'm sure he did say what he did, but it was supposed to be in the public testing.
And we didn't see any express votes be tested.
Yeah.
And I'm going to encourage people because really right now, we're kind of in the throes of a lot of the public accuracy testing across the United States.
And so Please take a look at your city, your county, and maybe even your Secretary of State's website for information as to when the logic and accuracy test is for your jurisdiction.
There are some notes and details over at Midwest Swamp Watch and USCase.org where you can take a look at some examples of test X and kind of what to look for.
Now, the state laws across the United States are not equal, and that's really unfortunate.
And so we will be working on model legislation.
I've had a couple of attorneys reach out to me as well as a couple of legislators from multiple states.
And some of our leaders from the election integrity group, we're going to start getting together and start writing some model legislation to try and have kind of a cut and replace kind of a more of a uniform election code standard.
So we're going to be looking at voter registrations.
We're going to be looking at the way that we're processing elections themselves, candidate registrations, and also the way hand counting has to be in these statutes at this point in time.
And especially better testing.
If we're going to continue using the machines, we need to have a backup plan that basically says if you pass the deadline two weeks ahead of time with logic and accuracy and it makes sense to us, then, yep, keep going down the path of using the machines, but you're still going to have a post-election audit.
Secondarily, if you are a jurisdiction that has continually failed and your legislature agrees that you're just going to go hand count, you're done with the machines.
And here's a new hand count process.
And then here's some model legislation on how you can actually look at that hand counting and the processing.
And maybe we're going to have to have some flexibility as to when some of the votes are starting to count to kind of maybe start a little bit earlier so that we can get done in time for the nightly news media.
But in reality, I'm actually not worried about that because I believe that accuracy trumps everything.
And so we don't need to know that night before we go to bed.
We can find out the next day if we need to.
But I believe with some of our training that we've done, we've proven that we can get it done on election night when we're properly configured.
And Wyoming is a state that actually has some good pieces in their legislation that I think other states should be looking at, especially when it comes to some of the party operations.
But there's some bad things too.
Like your whole canvassing piece is complete garbage.
I'm just going to be honest with you.
When you have your clerk who's running the election get to pick one Democrat and one Republican to basically be on the canvassing board with them, that's disgusting.
That should never be allowed.
Other states may have their county commissioners or city officials or judges that actually review the canvassing report and then actually decide.
And they also have the investigative resources to basically make sure that the elections are on the up and up.
I think we're going to need more students of the law and history coming forward because one of the things that's really interesting is that when we look back at a lot of our western states and the way that they started, but even in the eastern United States, and we look at the term canvassing and the power that they had to basically go in and actually review and actually audit the elections, I think a lot of that has been lost and we've lost some of that history.
So, there are some precedents there that when we look in some of the older newspapers of what they did, and it's pretty interesting.
And so, I want to make sure that we are protecting our elections and we're also giving support to our clerks because when we sit here and we look at what work is actually required to support and manage these machines in these larger counties, it's not efficient at all.
I mean, just the processing of the test decks is just a complete failure.
And when we look at trying to protect everyone's vote and everyone's vote should count, when we're using the machines, are you sure about that?
Are you really, really sure that's happening with the machines?
We just did an evaluation up in Campbell County where we had three precincts that we were able to review that volunteers and the county clerk created a bunch of different ballots.
You and I went through and reviewed those ballots and kind of said, okay, let's look at these particular races and let's have three different teams evaluate them.
It was stunning what we found out.
We had the machine interpretation and then we had the volunteers.
I'll let you kind of describe what you observed there in that room.
Sure.
It was quite interesting.
The one that we really, I really thought was stunning was when we had a pick of some of the ballots that the clerk had filled out that I understand and maybe a little bit of the person that was working with her filled out.
But they had a high percentage.
And if I remember right, it was around 40% of errors and they were weird errors, stuff on the normal basis where they wouldn't actually have that many errors on a ballot.
You may have one or two errors.
And what I mean by that is like somebody maybe put an X in an oval or they circled the oval and went out of the oval and then decided they didn't want that.
So they crossed it off and put another one.
They had 40% errors on these.
So we actually got these together, the three different set of test decks, and we took them to different teams that they actually interpreted them on how they should be counted versus what the machine actually counted.
So when we did that, we found out that we picked up a number of votes actually being able to be cast versus the machine would actually put them as an overvote and just throw them out.
So that to me was stunning on that.
I don't know if it's stunning.
I guess it was just shocking that we're losing our votes that we're casting based on how the machine interprets a human circling or whatever.
And they're supposed to be programmed to kick out so that you can go to an adjudication canvassing board.
And sometimes they went all the way through in the machine.
We found that out in our county that they went all the way through and still had problems.
So I just think it was very enlightening on what we found.
And when we did the testing, that was really good on the testing.
We had a control group and then there was nine teams of four and they did the test deck that the clerk put together.
And she put together five express votes and five write-in votes or excuse me, early votes and write-in votes.
And then we had 20 of like the regular standard in the day of the election day.
And there was so much tallying because you go five and then they had to tally, and then you go five and they had to tally that they couldn't really get in the groove because we have a lot of when you do hand counting, you have a lot of muscle memory and you get kind of in the groove of things.
Now, we had a control group, a set of four people.
They actually counted 249 ballots, and they did theirs in a lot less time.
They did it in two hours, or excuse me, four hours and five minutes.
And they had, I can't remember how many races they had, but it was quite a few.
But they averaged about a minute per ballot or per race, and or no, it was per ballot.
And the other ones averaged about four minutes per ballot.
So there was a huge difference on that.
And please correct me on some of my numbers.
I apologize.
I didn't refresh my memory on the notes, but I just thought the only thing that you were missing was 12 races.
12 races.
Thank you.
I'm sorry.
But I just thought it was such a great example and testing.
You know, we knew that the clerk was going to be setting us up to make sure hand counting was failure because they don't want to go to the machines.
We get that.
But what we saw was stunning.
It was so stunning.
You know, one minute versus four minutes.
And then, of course, you take all that information that we gathered from that.
And it was just very, very wonderful.
Right.
And what was absolutely incredible about this whole thing, too, is that when we looked at, for example, the first 13 races, our hand count team, six races were corrected by hand counting that the machines flagged as overvotes.
But in the first one, we found out it was a write-in.
The second one was actually a candidate.
Then we found out that in two, what do I want to come here? Constitutional amendments, they counted them as overvotes, but our teams unanimously said, no, those two races were no votes.
You know, so they were selecting no, not four.
Then in another one, Hagman was selected, but the machines would have said no, those were overvotes.
Now, what's really interesting about this, too, is that these machines are certified to not have an error.
So their error rate allowable is one error per 1.5 million ovals.
And so there's no way that these machines would have picked it up properly.
Now, the election officials are going to sit there and argue: well, this is because of voters.
So let me ask you this: are you okay with discriminating against voters who are unable to fill in a little oval?
Because even in the examples that she's providing here, she had a lot of votes where people were basically circling on the outside of the oval for the voter intent.
And so when we see stuff like that, this is where we were seeing in another group of races where another 14 were selected, five races were corrected by hand count due to voter intent.
And so there were a couple of other yes-no votes that the machine would have ruled as an overvote, but our teams were very clear between the yes or the no selections.
That was absolutely stunning to me.
Yes, that was.
And what that tells you is, yeah, well, I guess what it tells me is there's some type of mechanism in there that actually The machine is not counting anywhere near a human interpretation on these, even though they have an algorithm put in there to or a program to put in there to count them certain ways.
It still was just a little foggy on how it actually counted them, especially on that amendment vote.
The other thing about the clerk two that we warned her on is the ballot rate here where we see the election judge initials.
What was shocking about that is depending on how they sign it, you'll notice you see just a little bit of a coloration there just outside of the initial there that's kind of shining through.
Well, that's the oval on the other side.
And so, if the initials basically indented in, it would actually be selecting races on the other side.
And so, I have warned one of the attorneys to kind of watch a couple of these races because that ballot design is so poor that it wasn't properly tested.
And that's something that needs to be ferreted out.
And, but, you know, I'm going to give the clerk high marks because what don't we see on the outside of these ballots?
The timing marks.
So, she has done a good job of protecting her election to ensure that somebody isn't going off of the sample ballots that are handed out in the county or on the website, downloading them, then printing them, and then potentially stuffing them into the drop boxes.
And so, at least from that regard, it's identifiable that this would be an invalid ballot because it doesn't have the timing marks.
And so, those of you that are election officials out there throughout the United States, please remove all sample ballots that have timing marks on there because it's too easy to print them out and to potentially have fraud.
Now, if I was an election official, you know what I would do?
I would actually put fake timing marks out there.
So, if somebody did print out those ballots, I would actually have a log as to how many attempts people were actually trying to put in fake ballots.
That's what I would do.
But, you know, that's a way to understand and see what is actually happening.
And that's why I think all these little test things that we're doing, we're gaining so much knowledge to understand that we're in a hurting way.
Here in Wyoming, we are really hurting.
And I'm glad you said that some of these clerks, they're doing so much extra.
And then they do some things that are really good, like taking the timing marks off.
That is a pretty good thing to protect their elections, but yet won't take and look at the statute closer on what the minimum requirements are in a test deck.
And they seem to just be in some places, they're really good.
In other places, they just are absolutely not paying attention or intentionally doing this.
And it's really frustrating.
You're exactly right.
So, after the break, we'll kind of go over some of the breaking news and some of the positive things that people should be able to do.
We want to encourage them to still be part of the election.
And there's actually some good news coming out of the elections, but there's also some terrible news.
So, take it away, Apollo.
Let's go for the break and then we will come back and show you some of the breaking news that is happening across the United States.
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And it is almost impossible to keep up with it.
And some of the stuff that is actually really shocking what is happening across the United States.
So I'm going to share my screen with you on kind of the top three that have just happened here just in the last couple of hours here.
And so first what we've got here is a Georgia judge rules county election officials must certify the election results.
And literally, I kid you not, as you see it here directly from the Associated Press, they have to certify the election results by the deadline set in law and cannot exclude votes from certification, even if they suspect error or fraud.
That's 4.01 p.m. here.
I mean, that is just hours ago.
Now, out of my own home state here in South Dakota, election integrity advocates accuse many Haja County commissioners of treason.
This literally kind of had to shut down the meeting a little bit early.
And so at the regular meeting of the commission, turned tense on Tuesday when a group of residents complained about out-of-staters registering their vehicles and establishing residency in South Dakota.
And so at his shoe is whether or not out-of-state residents who register and license their vehicles for the lower cost in South Dakota and are also legally voting here.
And so the chairman had had enough when he was accused of treason on Tuesday for an election voting issue that the county doesn't control.
That's partially false because what's interesting is in their zoning codes, they basically identify that there are industrial parks that nobody can live in.
And so it's a partnership between the city and the county itself.
And so the county itself actually could do some things to actually help bring the discussion as well as awareness.
Since 2019, there have been articles about this.
And I really wish we would have cooler heads prevail here.
Then just breaking, Wisconsin GOP consultant files a bombshell lawsuit over fraudulent use of information for Act Blue, finance money laundering, aka smurfing.
And so that has just broken through the gateway pundit.
And so this is actually pretty exciting that there is a lot of stuff still happening.
The clock has not run out regarding some of the election issues that we are seeing across.
And I really want to thank a lot of the activists that have been out there because we are seeing so much out there what's wrong with our elections, but we're not just complaining about what's wrong.
We are actually actively out there trying to fix it through lawsuits, through legislation, through talking kindly with our election officials, through getting support with fellow partisans, whether they're Democrat or Republican, to try and unite across the aisle to basically say, let's have bipartisan oversight of our elections.
This includes absentee ballot boards in Minnesota.
This includes guarding the ballots in Minnesota.
This includes the joint efforts by both parties trying to help the states that just had hurricane damage to make sure that we'll have enough election workers, enough people there to be able to help conduct the elections that are out there.
The other piece of good news that we're finding is that in Georgia, there's an incredible amount of absentee voting.
In a lot of states, we're seeing a lot of new voter registrations, and we're seeing an increase in voter registrations on the Republican side, but also on the Democrat sides.
But what's really staggering is that we're actually seeing a closing of the gaps.
So, in past year elections, we would see an 8% increase in Democrat registrations and maybe a 4% increase in Republican registrations.
Now, in a lot of states, we are seeing the Republican registrations become equal to that of the Democrats or just slightly under.
And so, when we look at a forecast here for the elections, this election is going to be close.
It could be tight, but anything can change.
We've got three weeks to go, and there's a lot of stuff that's been coming out.
And just in the last four days, there has been so much out there regarding the candidates that I encourage you to go out and do your research and learn as much as you can.
It is just getting absolutely insane and crazy.
And the October surprise, I don't think it's plural anymore.
It seems to be pretty well, sorry, it's not singular, it's plural now.
And so, it's no longer just one surprise, it's a multitude.
And Jill, when we look at some of the ballot styles that are out there, and we kind of see what the election officials are contending with, and you kind of left off on a thought that you were thankful that I was describing kind of the process of how much work that they have to do and kind of just the volume of it,
that I don't think voters understand the required preparatory work just to manage these systems through the state evaluations, through the EAC, through when you get it into the county or the city, and now you have to protect these, you have to manage them, you have to protect them, you have to report.
There's a lot.
You recently did a FOIA request of your Secretary of State just regarding kind of what do you have for ESNS, inventories, certificates, et cetera.
How many records did you get?
Oh, my goodness, quite a bit.
I'm sorry.
I don't know how many.
It was a heck of a lot.
And it took me a long time to read through a lot of these requests because there was a lot of correspondence back and forth with ESNS, with EAC, and with our Secretary of State, and also with our clerks.
So there was quite a bit.
And I don't know if you were particularly wanting something in particular.
You'll need to help me on that one.
No, just the volume.
And it's just like just reading through that.
It was stunning to see how many questions there were, how much time was involved, how many mistakes were being made along the way.
People thought they did something.
And then we find out, no, this upgrade actually didn't happen.
It was pretty stunning across the board.
And when we look at, so going back to Campbell County, how long were we there just for the logic and accuracy test?
And how long were you there for the logic and accuracy test in Platt County?
Well, when we went to Campbell County, we got there at 8 o'clock, and I believe we left about 4.30 and they were still going.
So we also know that they had multiple days of prepping before that.
And it wasn't just one person.
It was four or five, I believe, because they were brought in some contract help or maybe it's employees from another part of the courthouse.
I don't know for sure.
And then with ours in our county, he had done a lot of preparatory work.
Has actually admitted that in this whole cycle, he started in April with working with his machines almost on a constant, at least once a day doing something.
And then, of course, a lot of hours lately.
Now, I couldn't get him put down on how many hours because he didn't want to admit that.
And that's fine.
It's just that we see there's so much timeframe when in reality, these clerks also run our courthouse and they could actually be running the courthouse.
The other thing that I see that was quite interesting, and I hope it's okay if I continue on with this topic, is our clerks are also part of an association.
And what we're finding, which is just very unnerving, is they're going to these associations.
And now, since we've been asking the clerks to verify and double-check and do better on their tests, test X, they're trying to make policy in these associations and then bring them back to our county.
One of them that was just admitted to yesterday is he says they were agreed at their association that we would not run a second tape after the public testing on the machines because that we're going to consider as an actual document instead of a copy of a document so that they couldn't give it out.
And I said, Excuse me, that's your policy.
And he says, yes, that's what the whole clerks are going to do that in 23 counties in Wyoming without any statutory or anything in control there.
And that was very upsetting.
The other thing is that they are trying to make sure, well, some of them are even going now, instead of having a public request to a clerk who handles all this stuff, they're sending us to the attorneys.
And the attorneys don't respond back in the right time and they don't know because then they have to go to the clerk and then the clerk has to answer.
So it's just these delay tactics that they're doing.
And so that is really frustrating.
So it seems intentional on some aspects.
And the other timeframe that they have that is involved in this is, you know, we've had security changes in our courthouse because they had to remodel for whatever reason.
But they had to have special security arrangements and security keypads and so on and so forth put in.
So that's a huge expense.
So a lot of this is just kind of crazy extra expense when in reality, you have a pen and you have a pencil and you have a piece of paper and you can hand count and you have a lot of volunteers.
So I see this as just mind-boggling on what we're doing to the population with these machines.
They're just taking too much time.
And they're not sitting in Campbell County with you is that when we're sitting in that room where all the machines are stored and we look to our right and that's where the ballots are stored, that equated to about 5% of the room.
Yeah.
Another 40% of the room were the machines.
Another 30%.
Yeah, all the way across both walls between the express vote and the DS200s that they had there.
And then the rest of it was kind of election supplies and then the tables in the middle.
It's just stunning what it takes to run this equipment.
And it is, I'm just at a loss for words why we are doing this.
And so I want people to remember that the beauty of hand counting, it doesn't require software updates.
It doesn't require logic and accuracy tests.
It doesn't require a post-election audit.
It doesn't require antivirus.
No, it does not require a battery backup.
We are or a generator that they have to put to the poll races.
We are losing our collective minds.
When we look at the machines, we've inserted these machines between the voter and the vote.
And I'm kind of done with it because when we have broken this down to find out, just like you've pointed out, there are the two silos here: the ability of the machines to be secure and certified.
They failed.
They've absolutely failed, and nothing's changed since 2005.
You're going into an election without antivirus being updated for over two years.
My state's going into an election with antivirus that hasn't been updated in over five years.
Boom.
Done.
Now, when we look at the election officials themselves, where they're saying, oh, we know how to use the machines, we're safe and secure and all this stuff.
No, no, they're not.
I've been in multiple counties, multiple situations where it's been, I've seen the passwords recklessly sitting out there.
And unfortunately, I'm not going to say what the passwords are, fortunately, but unfortunately, there's a lot of rhyming out there.
That's too easy to guess.
It's disgusting.
The other piece of this as well is these election officials are not properly testing the equipment.
They're not securing the equipment.
I've seen too many counties and cities that have their equipment right out in the open without proper supervision.
Right.
I've seen too many election officials get laxadazel regarding the thumb drives.
They're using outside thumb drives in.
There's been misstatements by Dominion and ESNS about the thumb drives.
And it's disgusting to see.
There's been misinformation by the Secretary of States.
If you find that you have a logic and accuracy test that isn't good, file a case and demand a hand recount of any race that you suspect.
You have to do it.
So, Jill, closing thoughts?
My closing thoughts are quite, I guess, I want people to understand that these elections are supposed to be where an individual from any place, any town can walk in, ask for a ballot to vote, and they can vote.
It doesn't need to be complicated.
It doesn't need to be in a black box because we put these ballots in a black box.
And in the state of Wyoming, we absolutely never get to touch the ballot once it goes in that box.
And that's a really bad thing.
We need to change our statutes on that.
So we can't even audit.
And we can audit in the fact that we look at digital copies.
So my concern is that people are thinking that, okay, this is easy to do election with machines.
It's really not because of all the intense work prior to that.
And I want everybody to understand our machines are not helping us at all because it's causing so much work for our clerks and for our counties because it's not just the clerk that's involved.
It's the extra county employees that they're using or have to pay.
So we need to remove these machines and then go back to hand counting because it worked for many, many, many, many years.
And it still works in multiple countries.
So those are my thoughts.
Thank you for having me on.
I greatly appreciate it.
Yeah, thanks for answering the call.
I wish Mike Lindell could have been on tonight, but hopefully we did well and honored his namesake with this show tonight.
I need everybody to stay awesome.
Support your local county officials.
Support a local candidate.
Get out there and help make sure that people are voting out there.
Let's break some record numbers and make sure that we have a lot of people out there voting and really, really hopefully help people understand what they're voting for.
Give them the opportunity.
Stay awesome, everyone.
Get out there, register to vote.
If you're not registered, get out there and help somebody to register to vote.
Help them get out and vote.
Just get out and vote.
That is the most important thing that you can do.
If you can spare some money to help support that favorite candidate of yours, do it.
They need the money right now to get the message out to so many other great people out there.
I am Rick Weibel.
Thank you for Mike Lindell for having this wonderful platform.