Dec. 19, 2024 - Health Ranger - Mike Adams
26:58
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| Alright, welcome back. | |
| Next, we're going to the interview with Tracy Thurman and Roger Veer, known as Bitcoin Jesus. | |
| It's an affectionate term. | |
| Bitcoin Jesus, you know, a kind man who gives away Bitcoin. | |
| It's not Bitcoin, Jesus. | |
| No, that's not what it is. | |
| It's Bitcoin Jesus. | |
| Positive light. | |
| So, Roger Veer is facing 109 years in prison for advocating freedom, basically, is what it boils down to. | |
| But to tell the story, since he can't speak because he's facing this prosecution right now by the DOJ, Tracy Thurman is here to tell his story. | |
| So they joined us from Spain, where he is being extradited by the DOJ. And this is a fascinating and very important interview, so give it a listen and share it with others and take action to help free Roger Ver. | |
| Here we go. | |
| All right, welcome back to the second hour of the Alex Jones show coming to you from Central Texas. | |
| I'm Mike Adams, the publisher of naturalnews.com, also a free speech independent media site. | |
| And all of us here in this space, we believe in decentralization of knowledge, decentralization of media, and also decentralization of finance. | |
| And in fact, I just had a headline here about Truth Social. | |
| They wanna use a crypto-powered fintech solution to guard against debanking, right? | |
| Because why should we allow centrally controlled e-commerce solutions or banking and finance or lending services to be able to de-platform us because of our viewpoints? | |
| Well, one of the greatest champions in the whole realm of decentralization and advocating for peer-to-peer cryptocurrency usage and just teaching people, empowering people with this message that really is the empowerment of human civilization, in my view, is none other than Roger Ver. | |
| Roger Ver, known as Bitcoin Jesus, although he's not necessarily a huge fan of that name, but it kind of stuck because he's been so giving in his knowledge and also in the early days of a lot of Bitcoin. | |
| Hope those people held on to it. | |
| And he is, of course, facing extreme prosecution by the United States government because, I believe, because they wanna silence him because he's such an advocate for decentralization. | |
| He is currently in Spain facing the risk of, well, an extradition order from the United States and potentially facing over 100 years in prison in the United States if he is convicted. | |
| And he joins us with a censored tag over his mouth at the moment. | |
| And beside him, Tracy Thurman. | |
| Tracy and Roger, it's an honor to have you both on the show today. | |
| Thank you for joining us from Spain. | |
| Thank you, Mike. | |
| We're very pleased to be able to join you. | |
| We're both huge fans of this show, and it's an honor to tell Roger's story here on InfoWars. | |
| Well, thank you both for taking the time. | |
| I know the time zones, it's made it a little bit difficult. | |
| And I hope we can get Roger to say something here during this segment. | |
| But Tracy, let's start with you. | |
| Keep it in a summary format here because of just the compactness of today's broadcast here. | |
| But tell us the full story to the extent you can of what Roger Ver is facing and why they are trying to silence him. | |
| Sure. | |
| This story really goes back in a quarter century. | |
| That's how long the lawfare against Roger has been going on. | |
| So 25 years ago, Roger ran for office as a young man in California, as a libertarian. | |
| And in a debate there, when he was speaking with the Republican and the Democratic candidates, he was talking about what happened in Waco, Texas. | |
| Because one of the things Roger cares about most is human freedom and ending human suffering, especially the suffering of children. | |
| And he talked about how the ATF had murdered children in Waco, Texas. | |
| That's true. | |
| They did. | |
| He called them jackbooted, child-murdering thugs. | |
| Which is what they are. | |
| It's what they did in Waco. | |
| But the ATF decided that day to take offense and to begin lawfare against Roger. | |
| And so they played the old Stalinist trick of, you know, show me the man, I'll find you the crime. | |
| And what they found was that Roger had sold fireworks on eBay. | |
| He was one of hundreds of people who had done this. | |
| He was buying them from Cabela's catalog and reselling them there as retail arbitrage. | |
| Nobody had a license to do this. | |
| Cabela's didn't have a license to do it. | |
| They picked one man and one man only to punish for not having a license for selling these fireworks, and that was Roger. | |
| And so Roger ended up spending 10 months in federal prison because the ATF wanted him silent. | |
| And what year was this? | |
| What was that? | |
| What year did this take place? | |
| It started in 1999. His prison sentence was 2002 to 2003. Okay, but they didn't send anybody else to prison for the same behavior. | |
| Not one person. | |
| In fact, if you're wondering for a moment, are you sure this was lawfare? | |
| We know it was lawfare, because in a meeting between the ATF, the prosecutor, and Roger's attorney, Roger's attorney was making the case, look, this is normally something where you would give the guy maybe a fine, or you just tell him to go get a license, right? | |
| Everybody else, that's what you're doing. | |
| And the ATF agent pounded his fist on the table and said, you didn't hear what he said about us. | |
| Right, so because they did not like his speech, they selectively persecuted him. | |
| Now, we're all familiar with that here at Infowars and myself as well. | |
| We've all been targeted because of our speech. | |
| But clearly what you're describing now is long before the arrival of Bitcoin, right? | |
| Yes, this is long before the arrival of Bitcoin. | |
| Who else were the victims of lawfare going back that far other than perhaps Roger Ver and Alex Jones? | |
| This is something they have in common, is that they were both canaries in the coal mine of lawfare. | |
| Yes. | |
| These two men. | |
| And so by the time Roger got out, it was very clear to him the US government was not done with him. | |
| The US government would probably never be done with him. | |
| And so he decided, tragically, that he had to leave the country in order to be safe. | |
| And so that's what he did. | |
| He left the US. And in the end he had to give up his U.S. citizenship to get citizenship elsewhere because of the threat he felt from the U.S. government. | |
| That may have sounded insane to other people a decade ago. | |
| I think today most of your listeners will be nodding their heads and saying, I understand that now. | |
| I've watched so many of my heroes go down, go to prison, be silenced, be debanked. | |
| And Roger was one of the first. | |
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| Just to confirm that today, I mean, how many Americans are thinking, especially before the election, conservatives were thinking about, well, should I go to Panama? | |
| Should I go to Chile? | |
| Where should I go? | |
| Thailand? | |
| Now, it's a lot of the Democrats, but They wanna flee because they committed crimes against the American people, such as censorship and malicious prosecution, which I think is this case here, also malicious prosecution. | |
| And I do wanna mention before you continue, Tracy, that I am personally advocating for President Trump To consider a pardon for Roger Ver because a pardon of Roger Ver would send a very powerful message to the pro-freedom, | |
| pro-America, pro-crypto community that Donald Trump, that you understand their plight and you are not going to allow the Department of Justice of this government to be weaponized against advocates of decentralized finance. | |
| So that's my view. | |
| I don't think I can say with certainty that Roger's very grateful for that as well. | |
| Well, please continue, Tracy. | |
| We're grateful for everything that he has done over the years, but please continue. | |
| Yeah, so he left this country and then in 2011, he discovered Bitcoin. | |
| And if I know the story correctly, he was so intrigued by it, so excited by it. | |
| And he stayed up for days reading about it to the point of actually needing medical care due to being sleep deprived. | |
| But what he saw in Bitcoin was the opportunity for a permissionless free exchange between people. | |
| Because if you've already been the target of the government, and again, at this point, many of your listeners have been, you know that the government has the ability to turn off your money. | |
| That's right. | |
| They do it all the time. | |
| And as long as the government has the ability to turn off your money, they have the ability to control you. | |
| Yep, and central bank digital currencies would only exacerbate that manipulation and threat against all of us. | |
| This is a primary theme here at Infowars, is alerting people to the dangers of CBDCs. | |
| And so it seems to me that one of the reasons why the US government, at least the pre-Trump government here, Wants to prosecute Roger is because, this is just my opinion, but I believe that Roger's education and empowerment of people would tend to help people realize the dangers of CBDCs. | |
| And so, do you agree with this assessment, Tracy? | |
| I do. | |
| I do. | |
| I think that that is a huge piece of why he's being targeted. | |
| Anyone who is building the ecosystem of freedom that allows us to have our own food, to have our own medical care, to make all these choices, but above all to make our own choices about our finances, To be able to transact together, that is critical to absolutely every piece. | |
| And few people have done more to enable that than Roger has. | |
| And I do think that is a huge piece of why this last administration had it out for him. | |
| No, I understand. | |
| I'm sorry to interrupt, but there's a petition that people can sign, I believe. | |
| Is it freerogernow.org? | |
| Is that it? | |
| PreRogerNow.org. | |
| We encourage everybody, please go there. | |
| Please sign it. | |
| It will take literally less than 15 seconds of your time. | |
| We don't ask you to put in all your personal information. | |
| But we need to be able to show President Trump and his incoming administration that there is support for this. | |
| There is support for Roger. | |
| And I can tell you, if you have ever put your money into any cryptocurrency, If you have ever benefited from the anti-lockdown movement, the medical freedom movement, from any of these things, even the anti-war movement, you've benefited from Roger's work. | |
| You just don't know about it. | |
| Yeah, true. | |
| And so please give 15 seconds of your time to pay back to the man who has done so much for all of us. | |
| Okay, and that petition, I mean, that's not a commercial effort. | |
| People who sign that, they're not gonna get spammed with, hey, buy this meme coin or anything like that. | |
| It's not that at all. | |
| It's just- You might get the occasional email saying, hey, here's something new in our campaign. | |
| That would be it. | |
| We would never dream of doing anything like that with this list. | |
| This is solely for people who want to support Roger being free again and being able to return to the US. Why did he give up his citizenship? | |
| He gave up his citizenship because he was too afraid to be here anymore and no longer felt safe. | |
| And frankly, the conduct of our government since then has done nothing to dissuade him of that. | |
| He would love nothing more than to be a free man again, to be able to return to the US as a free man, welcomed back by us as Americans, and be able to see the people he loves again. | |
| He's been kept away from them for nearly a decade. | |
| It's horrible. | |
| Well, Roger's the kind of person who's a great innovator, the kind of person that makes this country great. | |
| And if you wanna make America great again, you need people like Roger here. | |
| Now, it's a little weird. | |
| Actually, having Roger sitting there unable to speak, Roger, can you give me a thumbs up that if you come to the US, will you come here to the Infowars studios and join us for an interview? | |
| Okay, we got a double thumbs up on that. | |
| All right, so thank you. | |
| Thank you for all you're doing, Roger. | |
| I know the reason you're not speaking, I would imagine, is on attorney's advice because of the persecution, the case that you're facing, and we understand that. | |
| I just want you to know that all of us in America are rooting for you. | |
| And Tracy, you have been an incredible advocate. | |
| You flew to my studio and did an interview with me a couple of weeks ago. | |
| Thank you for doing that. | |
| You're obviously putting a lot of air miles in on this. | |
| I just have to ask you, honestly, what is driving you to do this? | |
| This has taken your whole time. | |
| And passion. | |
| My entire life is on hold to get this done. | |
| You're right, Mike. | |
| I've spent years away from my own family against my will. | |
| I have my family back now. | |
| Roger has a right to have his loved ones back in his life, too. | |
| And in order to do that, he has to be able to return to America as a free man. | |
| And so, you know, when I first Agreed to take on this case. | |
| I was ideologically aligned. | |
| I was very concerned about the legal precedent that's being set. | |
| They're attempting to destroy attorney-client privilege here. | |
| They're attempting to destroy reliance on counsel defense. | |
| You can go look those up, but those are a really big deal for all Americans if those go down. | |
| So that's what I was initially motivated by, but I've worked with a lot of High net worth clients, and generally they're very difficult people, to be totally honest with you. | |
| And I didn't expect to get along with Roger as a human being, but he's a really wonderful person. | |
| He's a kind person. | |
| He's compassionate. | |
| I've never seen him treat anyone with anything other than respect. | |
| And so I feel personally, you know, that he should have a right as a human being to return to his loved ones, his loved ones who are here in the United, you know, who are in the United States. | |
| He should be able to return as an American to America and be reunited with them. | |
| And that's what motivates me about all because I know the pain of being separated from your loved ones. | |
| Also, Attorney Roger Barnes has also chimed in on this. | |
| And I don't think we have that clip available. | |
| But guys, if you could find that clip, we would like to play it. | |
| I think it's short, maybe a minute. | |
| But Barnes is correct in pointing out the legal importance of this. | |
| Because as I understand it, Tracy, The federal government even raided the law offices of Rogers' attorney and confiscated private privileged communications. | |
| Attorney-client privilege has been thrown out the window. | |
| And that just speaks to the kind of lawfare that has been waged against Donald Trump, against Alex Jones, and so many of us in the pro-freedom, pro-liberty, pro-America space. | |
| Am I correct? | |
| Is my understanding correct on what they did? | |
| Yes. | |
| No, the armed federal agents raided his attorney's office. | |
| And they timed it, by the way, to be done at the same time they were raiding Roger's office and his accountant's office. | |
| That way, Roger was essentially denied legal protection because he couldn't call his attorneys. | |
| They were a little busy at that moment. | |
| And they interrogated his attorneys. | |
| They took reams of documents they had absolutely no right to. | |
| And it's a horrifying precedent if this is allowed to stand. | |
| Imagine any one of you who's ever depended on an attorney, that your attorney could be forced to turn over data and be questioned about you. | |
| That your accountant, that you're no longer able to depend on your accountant to do your taxes and be able to say, look, I turned over all the information to them. | |
| I asked them to do it right. | |
| They're qualified. | |
| You know, it's called a reliance on counsel defense because without it, we're all screwed. | |
| The tax code is essentially 70,000 pages. | |
| None of us can possibly memorize that. | |
| And so Roger hired some of the best attorneys in the world to help him understand that and to take care of it for him. | |
| And they're trying to use his case to take away that right for all of us. | |
| In the same way they used Alex Jones to try to take away the rights of many Americans, and many people like you and me, Mike, we stood up and we said, look, if you don't stand up for Alex Jones- That's right. | |
| They're coming next. | |
| Not everyone listens. | |
| I stood up for Alex Jones. | |
| I stood with Alex Jones during this entire time, and Alex has always stood for others as well. | |
| And by the way, Alex was absolutely thrilled when He learned that Roger was going to be joining us today. | |
| Even though you're not able to speak here right now, Roger, the fact that you are there, you gave us a thumbs up. | |
| Tracy, you're speaking for him. | |
| It's all understandable. | |
| Alex is thrilled that you're on the show. | |
| Now, let's go to this clip from Robert Barnes speaking about this particular case. | |
| Go ahead and play that. | |
| What's the latest on the guy who they're trying to extradite from Spain? | |
| Oh yeah, so there's two big crypt cases. | |
| So one is crypto.com has brought suit against the Biden administration and the SEC. And the other is the continued escalation of the extradition efforts against Roger Ver, colloquially known as Bitcoin Jesus. | |
| Leave it to the Biden administration to try to figure out a way to crucify Bitcoin Jesus. | |
| Ha ha! | |
| So for those that don't know who Roger Ver is, Roger Ver is one of the founders of the Bitcoin movement. | |
| It sort of was a Bitcoin purist. | |
| It was someone who believed in Bitcoin not for its self-enrichment prospects, but rather for its collective empowerment and individual freedom components. | |
| That if you really understood what Bitcoin was at core, there was the aspect I'm talking about, monetizing and incentivizing people To explore alternative ideas about the world that would let them go down Alice in Wonderland's rabbit hole, that allowed them to take the Matrix red pill and see past the simulation. | |
| But the broader aspect of it was its capacity to functionally revolutionize the world and remove financial control from central banks and central planners. | |
| Indeed, any central intermediary at all. | |
| Because it's based on democratizing, decentralizing currency and individually empowering through open source blockchain technology, the means of exchange. | |
| Robert Barnes is really good. | |
| We're going to end that, but Robert Barnes nails it. | |
| He's a super smart guy. | |
| He really understands this. | |
| I wanna actually get into that with you a little bit, Tracy. | |
| Although, let me set the context that I believe most people, almost everybody in the Bitcoin community supports freedom for Roger Ver, even if they may not agree with his interpretation of Bitcoin's choices along the way. | |
| Now, Roger is co-author of a very popular book now called Hijacking Bitcoin. | |
| And what Robert Barnes was just speaking to there speaks to the fact that the original vision, the Satoshi vision of Bitcoin was that it would be held in self custody by individuals. | |
| It would be decentralized and the block size would be large enough to handle enough volume to make transactions very low cost so that everyday people could use it in everyday trade, right? | |
| But unfortunately, some decisions were made in Bitcoin. | |
| That limited the block size, and we have Aaron Day joining us coming up in a few minutes, who also speaks to this. | |
| And Roger Veer came down on the side of the original Satoshi vision of Bitcoin, which was decentralized peer-to-peer transactions and not having Bitcoin largely controlled by centralized ETFs and that kind of thing. | |
| Tracy, is that something, do you wanna speak to that at all? | |
| Go ahead. | |
| Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely true that there are people in the cryptocurrency community that disagree with Roger on the block size wars. | |
| But at this point, everyone needs to understand this is far beyond the block size wars. | |
| This is a precedent that will be used against everybody in the cryptocurrency space. | |
| And so there are many people in this space that may disagree with Roger on literally everything, who are absolutely committed to making sure this man does not go to prison for the rest of his life. | |
| Because they understand, it's like Donald Trump said, They're coming for the rest of you. | |
| I'm just in the way. | |
| That's right. | |
| They're coming for everybody who is early crypto. | |
| They're coming for all the big crypto whales. | |
| Roger's just in the way. | |
| Take Roger down. | |
| Set the precedent. | |
| They're coming for everyone else next. | |
| So this goes far beyond that. | |
| And I love what Giancarlo said, where he said, if I have to choose between, you know, I'm not going to use his exact words. | |
| It was basically, if I have to choose between someone who's into altcoins and the government, I'll choose the altcoin guy, even though I disagree with him on everything else. | |
| 100%. | |
| We all need to take at this point. | |
| This is far beyond the block size. | |
| So we are asking, I'm asking for Donald Trump to consider a pardon for Roger Ver and at the same time, Ross Ulbricht, right? | |
| Julian Assange, even consider Edward Snowden. | |
| Edward Snowden warned us and he told the truth. | |
| He blew the whistle on an illegal surveillance state. | |
| And he was punished for that and nothing changed in America. | |
| And that, I'm sorry, Edward Snowden gave up his professional life, his personal life, his family, his country, in order to try to warn us about how our government was being weaponized against us. | |
| And it strikes me that Roger's plight is in some ways similar. | |
| Roger has had to give up his US citizenship in order to try to To be free from the selective targeted persecution by a malicious government that has weaponized the truth against the American people. | |
| But Tracy and Roger, times are changing dramatically. | |
| The defeat of Kamala, And the imminent defeat of elements of the deep state, this speaks very strongly to a new potential bright future for America, a future that can experience great abundance based on decentralized finance that Trump's people seem to understand. | |
| Your thoughts, Tracy? | |
| I agree. | |
| This is an incredibly exciting moment because November The morning of November 6th was a very happy morning for many of us. | |
| And not because I'm a deeply political person, but because I woke up that morning knowing that Ross Ulbricht, Roger Ver, potentially Julian Assange, all had a chance again. | |
| They all have a chance again. | |
| And why? | |
| They have a chance because so many of these people in this incoming administration, Trump especially, They understand what lawfare is. | |
| Trump, you understand lawfare. | |
| That's right. | |
| You've been the victor of it yourself. | |
| Alex Jones has been the victim of it. | |
| Elon Musk has been a victim of it. | |
| All of them have been, and all of them should be able to look at Roger and see a brother in arms. | |
| They should be able to see a man who has been going through the same thing they have at the hands of the same people who have been persecuting them. | |
| And a man who deserves the same freedom that they have today because Donald Trump won. | |
| So this is an opportunity for Donald Trump to change the world by saving one of the individuals who has revolutionized finance. | |
| And also, Trump has said he wants to make the U.S. the haven for cryptocurrency. | |
| I can tell you there's other countries that are literally rolling out the red carpet for these guys. | |
| You fly in on a private jet, they roll out a red carpet for you, they take you directly to a government building where they make sure by the end of the day you have your golden visa and you have everything you need. | |
| Meanwhile, the U.S. is putting these men in shackles. | |
| If you were one of these crypto billionaires, why on earth would you choose the U.S.? 100%. | |
| I'm sorry to cut you off. | |
| We're almost out of time. | |
| FreeRogerNow.org is the website. | |
| And I agree with you. | |
| If you want to make America the crypto capital of the world, you start by pardoning Roger Ver and unleash him as an innovator for America. | |
| And that's how you make America great again, one of the many ways. | |
| So thank you both for joining me today. | |
| God bless you both. | |
| And be well. | |
| Thank you so much, Mike. | |
| And we can't wait till Roger can come back and speak for himself. | |
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