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Jan. 15, 2024 - Lionel Nation
26:56
Lionel on Redacted: The Latest Tranche of Epstein Files Revealed Absolutely Nothing

Lionel on Redacted: The Latest Tranche of Epstein Files Revealed Absolutely Nothing

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Well, new documents from the Jeffrey Epstein case were released.
They do feel like a bit of a letdown, but what can we read between the lines?
Joining me to discuss is Lionel from the Lionel Nation YouTube channel.
He's a legal and media analyst and one of my favorite guests because we can count on him to be, as my grandma used to say, full of piss and vinegar.
Thank you so much for joining me.
And why don't you tell me, just give us a quick summary, what we learned and what you surmise that we didn't learn.
Okay.
A couple of things first.
As a former prosecutor and as a trial lawyer, let me go through the list of this.
Because one day we're going to be, I think, looking at this, Natalie, we're going to have a new phrase.
You know, we have the Streisand effect and the Mandela effect.
We're going to have the Epstein effect.
And this is what happens when you talk about sexual matters and titillation.
And you break things up into the first tranche, the first drop.
It creates another momentum, redirecting focus on where you should be.
And it's almost like a limited hangout, to use that great intel term.
It's this giving a little bit of information and duping the public into thinking that's it.
I've provided the following list of questions that need to be asked that aren't.
Number one.
If there's one question to be asked, we can just stop right here.
This is the one I've been screaming about since this happened.
Where are the recordings?
Where are the tapes?
Where are the pieces of evidence and documentation regarding what happened?
Because as you know, his whole home, his airplanes, his jets...
Everything was basically a recording studio.
Where is that?
Who has that?
Is it lawyers?
Was it part of the estate?
Does the FBI have it?
You never hear about that.
Right, they're not mentioned in any filings, right?
Never.
Okay, that is weird.
Of course that's weird.
Yes, this is a honeypot, an extortion trap.
Wait, can I ask you, have any plaintiffs' lawyers mentioned it?
Any plaintiff lawyers?
No, right?
Here's the deal.
I've got to say this.
As Gore Vidal says, I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm a conspiracy analyst.
I don't delve into this.
That's not my first thing when I say conspiracy.
Let me just also say, a conspiracy is merely an illegal confederation.
Conspiracy doesn't mean crazy.
It means an agreement that you and I might have to do something which is nefarious or felonious.
The law hates the agreement as much as it does what we're doing.
Not only does it hate us committing the murder, but it hates us agreeing to commit the murder.
It's almost like Catholic catechism.
Right, which is why you can never convict unless you have intent.
You have to have criminal intent.
Right.
Right, indeed.
But the thing is, let me just explain a couple of things.
It seems like it's a honeypot, and somebody suggested, is there a possibility that the real people behind this, because that's really what's important, is not this fallen currency trader that, by the way, nobody knows anything about.
Nobody on the street, nobody on Wall Street.
You don't have to be a hedge funder.
You've got to file reports and documents.
Nobody remembers anybody trading with him, or he just all of a sudden came out of nowhere.
This fellow who was a teacher at Dalton School, this premier Upper East Side New York private school, a man who didn't even have a degree, and who was kind of not recruited, but invited into it by Bill Barr's father.
And I'm not trying to lure them into it, but it's very interesting.
But here's the question.
Is it possible?
Is it beyond the realm of reason?
Let me give you my particular parlance.
Rather than saying, you know, I think, because a lot of people think things without any basis or basis for it, I always say, you know, I wouldn't be surprised.
And I wouldn't be surprised if the question we ask is, what was Israel's take on this, specifically their Mossad or their police or intelligence?
You've got Ehud Barak, you've got Epstein, you've got Alan Dershowitz, you have so many people who have been, not because they're Jewish, but they've been so primarily, Connected for years with the premier, October 7th notwithstanding, the premier Intel agency in the world.
And would it not be beyond the realm of possibility to be able to say, we have this guy that we've kind of created.
He comes in here.
He comes to New York.
He lures the biggest names in industry, big tech, the world, music, entertainment.
Lures them into his love shack, so to speak.
Records it.
Provides nothing but extortion and blackmail information for us that we can use later on.
In fact, there was a congressman who intimated this.
And then recently there was some reference to a Hulbarak.
So anyway, we don't know that.
But that's something to be thinking about.
Because remember, this guy was created out of nowhere.
There was no Jeffrey Epstein before this.
Now, next, where did he come from?
Where did this man come from all of a sudden?
Is it Les Wexner?
Who put him in charge of islands?
You know, people have asked the question, how many billionaires do you know or anybody who has an island?
That's a hell of a lot of upkeep.
An island and planes and aircraft.
I mean, this is inordinate.
Nobody's ever really followed through with this.
Have we ever?
Catalog the estate.
What happened with all of the information?
Next, why is Ghislaine Maxwell even in prison?
For trafficking to nobody.
Right.
Names we don't have.
Well, I don't want her.
I want him.
I want the big guy.
I want to know who all these people were.
So what do we do?
We charge her so she can take the fifth and not cooperate.
We made a deal, ostensibly, with Sammy DeBull Gravano, who says, what, he killed 19 people?
He, no problem.
But Ghislaine Maxwell, no, no, no, hands off!
By God, you're going to serve every day of your sentence.
As opposed to, Ghislaine, we don't want you.
Help us with this.
And let me go back to question number one.
We don't need her or Epstein or anybody if we've got the tapes!
And we've got the evidence.
Next, how many women were there over the years?
How many victims are we talking about?
How many cases settled?
Settled from whom?
What are the conditions?
Who are they?
I guarantee you, if this was a mass espionage ring, you wouldn't be able to settle your way out of that.
And let me also say something.
Please stop using them.
Not you.
Stop using the word pedophile.
We're into this thing about pedophiles.
Pedophiles is a form of attraction.
It's not against the law.
It's a mindset.
It's a form of chronophilia.
And also, if we're getting technical, pedophilia involves prepubescent kids.
It has to do with any sexual activity with children who have not yet gone through puberty, if we want to make sense.
Excuse me.
Let's really get technical.
It's called chronophilia.
And there's pedophilia, epiphilia, hemophilia.
This is disgusting.
Prepubescent post-adolescence.
Somebody came up with these gradations.
There's also, which we don't hear about, gerontophilia.
You have a sexual attraction for older people.
So this is a thought crime.
There is no such thing about being a pedophile.
Let me ask you this.
Is a rapist a heterosexual?
What?
Nobody even thinks that way.
If somebody were to, please, I know it's a family show, but if somebody were to have their way with a goat, would you say, but it was a male goat?
No!
It's the act.
Traffickers are in it for the money.
Do you think a slave master was a racist?
No!
It's trafficking in chattel.
This word, because as you know, Natalie, I'm not going to put words in your mouth, but our industry has just been Taken over by a bunch of these folks who just run clicks.
The word is, say pedophile every time you can.
Say it because it just titillates people.
There is no law against being a pedophile.
Actually, I was a research assistant on a book called Pedophiles and Priests because the media loves those media cycles by Mary Glasner, who is my I was an advisor when I was a USC sociologist.
Anyway, but you're right.
Pedophiles and priests are incredibly simplified for the purpose of cliques in order to distract from what we need to be looking at.
So please continue.
I want to say one tangential thing, which we'll talk about later on.
With AI and AGI, something I've been talking about for the longest time, you're going to have basically human simulacra.
You're going to have lifelike dolls.
That are so real, but not human.
You're going to have deepfake CSAM, child sexual abuse material, and what we should be called kiddie porn.
That's not real.
So you're not going to be having...
What is that going to be?
I mean, I charge you with what?
An idea?
It's a thought?
It's a machine?
It's not real?
So we're not...
I don't want to get into thought crimes.
Thoughts are safe.
Anyway, enough of that.
I just had to...
It's been driving me nuts with this.
The thing is, the final, which is the most important, you know, Natalie, we have these people who love to say, I'm really into true crime.
Really?
Oh yeah, I'm into true crime.
Really?
You know, we have this thing here in New York, there's the Gilgo Beach Killer, and they found a piece of pizza that he chomped on, and they ran the DNA, and they nailed it, and isn't that great?
And I'm saying, hey, hey, y 'all, hey guys, which is another big...
Online thing.
Hey, guys.
Everybody's a guy.
Hey, guys.
You really like this true crime stuff?
Yeah.
Well, here's one for you.
How about the fact that they murdered him?
Yeah.
They murdered him.
This is not...
This is...
You want to get into technical?
Hyoid bone fracture.
Thyroid cartilage fracture, petechial hemorrhaging, all of the indicia of strangulation anterior to dorsal, strangulation pressure.
This could not have...
It's ridiculous.
Michael Bodden, the premier, preeminent forensic pathologist, goes through this list, and they keep saying, including Bill Barr, I think he committed suicide.
He didn't commit suicide!
It's the most ridiculous thing anybody's ever seen.
My God!
Well, didn't Michael Bodden specifically say it did not look like suicide?
No, he said it did.
He said it was a homicide.
It looked like homicide, is what he said.
Well, look at it.
There's four, if you will, manners of death.
It's an acronym.
NASH.
Natural, accidental, suicide, or homicide.
Actually, there's five.
Unexplained.
That's kind of a given.
It's not natural.
It's not accidental.
It's not suicide.
It's a homicide!
This was not done.
This cannot be done by somebody who takes cloth strips from around his neck and then hangs.
This will not shatter a hyoid bone.
This will not shatter a thyroid cartilage.
Not only that, nobody even goes through.
Did you ever see the guy he roomed with?
The guy who roughed him up?
This was the next cop who was on death row who mysteriously made a deal.
Nobody!
They haven't scratched not the surface.
They haven't done anything.
And what are we talking about?
Stephen Hawking with some what?
You see, we are this is infantilism.
We have the sexual sophistication of children.
We are like a cat with that laser.
Who's Stephen Hawking?
Forget Stephen Hawking.
This is who?
Where are the tapes?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Let me hear this thing about...
Oh, and did you know, Natalie, that Bill Clinton liked young women?
What?
Yes.
You're kidding me.
How many stories?
Breaking news.
The latest Trump's latest Trump.
And I blake this stupid, juveniscent, mindless, mainstream media from all...
This is why they're dying.
So let me go back to it.
Yes, they're supremely incurious.
About obvious things.
If something happened, if something happened, God forbid, a parent had a missing child or there was a murder suspect, you need me to come in and act like an adult and not say, so?
No!
Stop!
Don't be distracted.
Let's get to the bottom of this.
Does anybody care?
Nobody cares.
And here's the best thing about this.
He's going to just go away.
And the final question is simply this.
As a prosecutor, as somebody from the Southern District, I would bring each woman in and say, of course, if you want to settle, how many settlements were there?
I would have a document, I would have a book, if you will, of all of these pictures that I have from the tapes and from the, look at me, I'm saying tapes, from the files of the recording.
Sure.
Portage, documents, pics.
Data, whatever.
And I would have each person say, I want you to go through this.
And do you see anybody here that you might have had sex with when you were underage?
This guy.
Now you might know who he is, you might not.
Just put a little mark there.
Okay, fine.
Are you sure about that?
Yep.
Okay.
Go along.
Jouffre initially pointed out to Dershowitz and later on said, you know, I was confused.
Somebody else who looked like...
I don't want to get into that.
They settled it.
Great.
Whatever that's about.
Let me stop right now and say something to you.
And I'm going to say something.
I'm going to try to say this as diplomatically as possible.
Natalie, a lot of these girls, a lot of these women, were not pulled into vans.
Some of them, not all of them were underage.
There was one thing I was reading about, about somebody grabbing buttocks and bosoms.
She's 20 years old!
Granted, not right, but I do not think that is a child.
There were some who knowingly, willingly, intelligently went into this.
There was a place here in New York that was like a dorm, so to speak, where they were kept these models.
And again, I'm not trying to...
I'm not pleased, but let's make sure.
If you want to go to the number one sex trafficker in the country, go to the United States government because it's happening at the border.
These unaccompanied kids.
A lot of these girls themselves who now are claiming I was a victim were out there recruiting.
Now, again, you might say this is part of the pathology.
That notwithstanding, there's a lot.
Do you see what I'm saying?
I haven't even gotten through this yet, and there's all of these questions.
But the bottom line is, I would say, I have interviewed, let's say, 100 women.
I have listed, or I have here, 25 men that they claimed they had sex with.
Why aren't these men indicted?
Why aren't they in charge?
You mean to tell me no?
Or...
Pursuant to maybe the deal, which is fine.
Anything that encourages settlement, because I think we should always honor the wishes of sexual victims.
But they also, you have to ask the question, was nobody raped?
Was there no sexual activity?
I'm not talking about back rubs.
And finally...
And I'm sorry I keep saying finally because I'm a liar.
I keep saying finally and I'm lying.
Well, we admit when we're lying, so we keep our credibility.
Here is Prince Andrew.
The man who, by the way, gave one of the greatest interviews goes, I don't know.
Well, did you know this woman?
She said you were sweating.
Well, I have anti-reverse bromeadrosis.
I don't sweat.
What was that about?
You'd think somebody would sit there and say, Andy.
Remember Randy Andy?
You're too young for this.
Ku Stark, when he was doing his...
By the way, don't be surprised if Fergie and Andy somehow did that.
Whatever.
Oh, okay.
Don't be surprised.
Don't be surprised.
You heard it here first.
We'll put that on our bingo card for 2024.
But here's the thing which I find fascinating.
You think somebody would say, somebody from MI6, MI5, all of these agencies, Mossad and others, this guy is setting you up.
You're a schmuck.
What are you doing?
Don't you understand who it is?
This is Ghislaine Maxwell.
You know who her father was, Robert?
This is Intel.
These are spooks.
Look, if you want women, we'll take care of that.
If you have to have this, you're not going to go with this man that everybody knows is a freak and he's recording the same thing with Bill Clinton, same thing with Bill Gates, same thing with all these people.
I don't understand.
Is it because of their arrogance?
They feel like they're just impenetrable?
They're beyond any kind of...
I don't know what the word is.
It just blows my mind.
You think somebody would say, you're not going to go there.
You're not.
You don't have to do this.
Bill Gates claims, well, you know, I was there raising some money.
You're the richest man in the world and you're going to this pup for a couple of hundred K here?
Stop it!
It's stupid!
It doesn't make any sense.
And by the way, Wait till you see Bill Clinton.
There's an old expression.
This is politically incorrect.
I'm sorry, but it's called the Sicilian flu.
And when old-time mobsters, remember the movie Casino when they're charged?
All of a sudden, they get sick, and they're old, and they can't talk, and the oxygen.
Bill Clinton is going to be doing a decline.
He's going to make Joe Biden look like Neal's boar.
They're going to say, President Clinton, did you have anything to do with Epstein?
You see him walking around like gift shops in the Hamptons?
He's going to get real bad.
Whenever they get to him, they're going to say, oh, for the love of God, leave the man alone.
Did you know these women?
And Hillary, watch Bill Clinton.
He doesn't look like he's lost his fastball.
But let me tell you something, between Biden and everybody else, you're going to see this decline.
And it's the best way to get people up.
And by the way, since we have the attention span of an act, this story will be over now because we don't have any long-term interest because of people from the mainstream media who teach us with the short attention span business that we can't take a case all the way through and follow it through.
Like, for example, what is the status of the property now?
Who owns what?
Where is this?
Where are the recordings?
And by the way, I don't think they were in a box.
I think they were always kind of kept going and kept fresh and there were weekly deliveries.
What do you got?
Got a few more here.
They weren't just hanging around in some closet and a box marked, you know, dirt.
But these are the issues that are so critical.
How is it that we as a society or any of these idiots, these sock puppet fools, these dolts on these mainstream media, why is it that none of them have ever gotten deep into this?
Probably because most of their bosses, and let me just say something to be fair, most of their bosses have been invited to these parties because he was the hottest ticket in town!
Listen, Natalie, I don't want to break it to you, but remember when they were saying about Charlie Rose?
Charlie Rose.
I knew about Charlie Rose.
I didn't even work there.
And Matt Lauer.
We've got more freaks and pervs and letches in this city.
Listen, Natalie, you really shouldn't be going to this.
Why?
Because he's a pervert.
Okay.
What about this invitation?
Pervert.
What about this one?
Real pervert.
Being a pervert, being a lech, being some parapile in New York and L.A. is not exactly disqualifying.
Oh, yes, I know this.
I know this.
I worked for CBS in the 2000s.
Yes, I do know this.
Yeah.
And I worked for all the mainstream medias.
Yes, this is not news.
It's only these people who went there.
Well, who was on that flight log?
The hell with a flight log?
These people are also cheap bastards who will jump on a flight.
So that's not...
That's not the issue.
There's no critical thinking.
The issue is, where's the evidence?
Well, I think that the point you're making is almost like an episode of 24, is that there's got to be more bad guys behind the bad guys, because otherwise we would have these things.
It would be easy.
It would be a give-me.
It'd be an open-end shut case.
We would have recordings.
We would have names.
We would have victims.
And we would have a real autopsy.
And those are the things we don't have.
And because we have so much silence from the media, Then we know that there are many bad guys behind the bad guys.
So you make your point.
Are there any sort of names here in the documents we did get that maybe surprise you or you think are a real thing?
No.
Okay.
No.
I mean, no.
All you have to do is say, listen, the best part about this was that this was a guy who, for whatever reason, he was bankrolled by somebody for some reason.
And everybody just, please, look, look, I'm at Harvard.
He wanted to give us some money.
He wants to hang around, you know, with the fake.
By the way, remember something.
Anybody who has a Harvard t-shirt never went to Harvard.
It's just one of those rules, you know.
He had every Harvard, you know, like the bearskin rug, the pennant.
The guy was as phony as the day is long.
But what goes to show you is that this is, if you want to commit a crime, whether it's JFK, whether it's anything, The United States of America is the best place because we have some of the most stupid people who have no detective skills, no natural sense of questions to ask.
They're incurious, but there's no critical thinking.
They never go from here to here.
They just don't.
And stories just go away.
They just go away.
There's no follow-up.
All of a sudden, we say, well, whatever happened to...
Remember the East Palestine?
Remember the trains that were turned over and the ammonia leaks in the water?
What happened to that?
You would think Palestine, it might even jog a memory.
Three days tops.
It's my three-day rule.
After three days, we just forget.
Next.
We just go to the next...
We're like the baby who...
You jiggle the keys and...
Shiny object syndrome.
Well, yes, but we, you and me...
You and I, we are independent media, and so that's up to us.
So, you know, we're talking about it, and we'll keep talking about it.
And so, yeah, we're going to follow what you have to say.
If we get more documents, we're going to keep on top of it.
But thank you for being the document.
Let me just tell you something.
It's not the document.
It's just like Elon Musk's...
Remember the Twitter files?
Right.
Elon gave them to Matt Taibbi and Barry White.
Here.
These are the files.
So you think it has to go through back channels if we get anything?
If you get something, they want you to have it.
It's a limited hangout.
It's to allow you to think that the issue is, I say this again, bring me the recordings.
You keep the files.
Let's just put this in the old VCR.
Let's crank it up and say, ooh, who's that?
That's what I would...
I don't care about Stephen Hawking.
I don't care about any of that stuff.
Show me the evidence of what it is.
This is the only question of any interest.
The only...
It's the most critical...
It's the gravamen, as we say in law.
The critical issue, the only issue that nobody has talked about.
Because they're...
Frankly, I think they're...
Between you and me, I think they're kind of told, don't go there.
Just don't go there.
Yeah.
All right.
Well, we went there.
Thank you so much for doing that and for pointing out these sort of glaring holes in this story.
I appreciate it, as always.
Thank you for joining us.
Again, you can find Lionel at Lionel Nation on YouTube, and I suggest that you do.
Okay, thank you again for everything.
Great to see you, as always.
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