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March 21, 2023 - Lionel Nation
38:39
Donald Trump on Trial: The Process

Witch hunt, Sparky.

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*Try to the door*
Well, my friend, the Trump trial and prosecution and cases continue on.
And I'm still trying to find somebody who can spend some time dealing with them carefully, slowly, methodically, and without interest in this usual stuff, this blather and bleeding and the like.
Will President Trump be able to show the moral courage, the maturity to watch what he says?
No.
No.
What about his legal team?
Will they be able to button their lip and be quiet?
No.
That's obvious.
Your legal, your lawyer, should be more interested in your case than who wants me now?
Oh, Today Show?
Just a second to call you back.
Who wants Today Show?
Okay, who else?
CNN?
Okay, who else?
Who else?
You don't want that.
You don't want that.
Not interested in that.
It may kill Trump's legal team to say, I'm not going to go on TV.
It's not going to help me at all.
It's not going to help me at all.
None!
Not going to help me in the least.
What am I going on TV for?
Why?
What am I going to do?
Make fun of him?
Hey, this Soros backed...
Oh, that's brilliant.
What I'm seeing is...
The inability of people today, by virtue of this social media lunacy, to act like adults, to really think things through, and say, what's really in the best interest for him?
You've got a number of cases pending.
And I'm going to be saying things which I, it may sound like I'm repeating, but I don't think you understand yet.
You've got the Stop the Steal case in Georgia.
You've got the Mar-a-Lago Documents case.
That's not going anywhere.
You've got the J6 Jack Smith case, January 6th, and documents, and that's it.
And then you've got this dog, which is horrible.
And I'm not saying it's horrible because, oh, I like Trump and he's a great guy.
This is a terrible case.
Oh, I forgot to tell you.
And the E. Jean Carroll sexual battery case.
That's the worst one there is.
Now, that's a civil case.
There's no jail involved in that.
But that's the worst.
Because of what I see coming.
I see what's coming with that one.
Now, before we...
I'm going to be throwing things at you.
I'm warning you.
I'm telling you.
My head is...
Exploding with things to say about this case.
No lawyer wants to represent Donald Trump.
Let me say this again.
It's sad to say.
But you've got to be crazy.
I mean, you've got to be crazy.
Because you will be forever blacklisted.
You can just forget it.
In the old days, it was fun.
You could represent mobsters and killers and who was it?
Jerry Boyle represented Jeffrey Dahmer.
Wow!
That was interesting.
Really?
You represented Dahmer?
Yeah.
What was he like?
You represented John Gotti?
Really?
Sammy the Bull?
You represented the BTK killer?
Wow!
Donald Trump!
What are you?
What?
He's entitled to his day in court.
Well, yeah, but...
What are you?
And if you're a firm, forget it.
You want to get any big corporate stuff?
No way.
They put the word out.
They put the word out.
They said it as clear as day.
You are...
Forget it.
So...
Who are you going to get?
Not that you're going to get second tier or second rate.
I'm not saying that.
But you're going for a group of people who basically say, I love this.
I love the publicity.
I love the publicity.
I love it.
Somebody mentioned Roy Cohn.
One of the most overrated, absolutely unscrupulous Lightning Rod case.
I've heard cases he's argued before the Court of Appeals that were just insanity.
Insanity.
Melvin Belli.
Remember those?
Melvin Belli, Racehorse Haynes, Bobby Lee Cook.
I like Brendan Sullivan.
He represented Ted Stevens, I think, and Oliver Stone.
Never went on TV.
Oh, no, no.
Dershowitz is, what, 87 years old?
Dershowitz couldn't care less.
He did his thing.
He's got his money.
He's living it up.
He doesn't care.
And he's very good.
But, I mean, his whole thing is, you know, he's braggadocious.
I notice he's not doing this case, but maybe because he's too old, he's got his other things, and whatever.
There may be other...
There is so much stuff still going on.
I think with David Boye, he's still going on with that other matter down.
We'll just leave it at that.
So what do you do right now?
Alvin Bragg.
Everybody's just ripping on him, as you would say.
People say he's ripping on him.
Talking about his weight and his looks.
Typical.
Typical, typical, typical, typical, typical, typical, typical, typical.
Makes absolutely no sense.
But it's the way we are.
I would do everything in my power if I represent Trump to explain to him I'd get the message somehow, somehow, somehow to Alvin Bragg that I'm not the enemy.
I'm not the enemy in this.
Of course, I've got to tell Trump to be quiet.
That's just impossible.
Because he's going to say whatever he wants.
And that son of his is going to say whatever he wants.
And you know how that thing goes.
What's all this capital letter stuff?
This truth social, I guess.
All these capital letters.
What are you screaming at me?
It looks like a ransom note.
It looks crazy.
Doesn't it?
But...
You've got people who have this idea now that say, look, I've got this far being like me and I'm not going to change.
It's who I am.
Okay.
Well, things are different now.
But here's the message I would love to sit down with.
If I represented Trump, I would get the message to brag.
I'm going to say, listen, I understand the position you're in.
This is a dog.
I know you don't want this case.
You didn't want it then and you were smart.
Then you had to.
Then you had these folks in your office who jumped on you and said, you're giving up because you hit the brakes.
I understand this.
And you're going first.
You're going first.
And I know and you're getting a lot of help, obviously.
You're not going to know about this, but believe me, there were people who had been probably flown in to say, we'll help you out on this one.
But Mr. Bragg, this is a chance for great career stuff.
You could be A.G. one day.
I mean Merrick Garland A.G. You play your cards right with this?
Federal judgeship?
Lifetime tenure?
SCOTUS?
Supreme Court maybe?
You will be hailed as the guy who prosecuted Trump.
The first one.
And is jail out of the question?
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not.
No way.
That's up for the judge for what you recommend and all that sort of stuff.
But here's the problem.
If something goes wrong, if this case goes south, either because I'm an acquittal, a reversal on appeal, well, not so much that, but an acquittal, oh, God, you could forget it.
And Mr. Bragg, they will forget you so fast.
It won't...
You think we are the United States of amnesia, as Gore Vidal said?
They will forget you like you don't even exist.
Alvin who?
Alvin who?
What?
They will...
They love you now.
Maybe.
So we've got to get you out of this thing.
I don't know what was...
Now, here's the latest.
Here's...
The latest.
Some folks on social media have suggested, and I guess it's true, they said, who has said anything about being indicted tomorrow?
They never said anything about indicted.
The legal team doesn't know anything about indicted.
There was a leak about how the police would perhaps maybe work with the Secret Service, but we didn't say that.
Where did you get that from?
Well, Trump said that.
Did he?
Did he not?
Did his team say that?
Who said that?
Luckily, very smart, Alvin Bragg's team says nothing.
They just don't say anything.
They let Trump and these people do all the talking.
Oh, they're doing the talking, all right.
Oh, my God.
They're doing the talking.
Why is Trump's legal team talking?
Why?
Why?
Answer that question.
What do you mean?
What?
You think somebody's going to say, Mr. Bragg, yeah, we've got to drop this case.
Why?
Because Trump's lawyer was on the Today Show.
What?
Yeah, he said it was a political prosecution.
He called it a persecution.
He did?
On the Today Show?
Yeah.
Well, that's it.
We've got to drop this.
As opposed to, now we're going to double down.
The target just got more concentrated.
Why are they doing this?
Why are they doing this?
Everybody else is talking about it.
What is the purpose?
You've got E. Jean Carroll case, the rape case coming up, sexual battery.
You've got the J6 case.
You've got the Mar-a-Lago docs.
And Stop and Steal.
And this is just one.
And you're starting off with this?
You're going to be pretty tired when you're done with this.
You're going to just make him even a bigger target, aren't you?
You're going to say, come on, I dare you.
Go after him.
I dare you.
Because that's what you're saying.
Have you ever seen these stories?
Sometimes you'll see it in a bar.
A drunk woman goes up to some big guy and gives him lip.
And her boyfriend or husband is standing back saying, honey.
That's enough.
Let me tell you something.
My husband again.
And the big guy looks at the husband and says, that guy?
Yeah.
And she gets him into trouble.
That's what happens when you go on TV and you say, come on, I dare you.
Come on, I dare you.
Remember Robert Connery?
Remember the battery?
Go ahead, knock it off.
Go ahead, knock it off.
Go ahead, I dare you.
Who do you think you are?
Who do you think you are?
This case is garbage.
It's nothing.
You don't understand this.
This is garbage.
Why are you?
Why?
Why?
Why is anybody going on any TV show?
Now, if you do, if you do, if you do have to say something, if it's incumbent upon you to say something, if you have to do it, and if you have to tweet, President Trump, please, repeat the following,
and repeat after me, under no circumstances, Is anyone to engage in violence, in ostensible support of me, or my cause, or against the prosecution?
I'm telling you right now, I'm telling you that I am against any and all violence.
There is no place for violence.
That's what you should be saying.
Constantly.
Constantly.
Don't ever say anything like, and we want you to show, we're not going to take this.
Wait a minute, stop.
What does that mean?
What are you, Twisted Sister?
What is this?
What are you, Dee Snider?
We're not going to take this anymore.
What are you doing?
What are you doing?powow Why are you saying anything?
Do you know there is this contingent?
And I've seen it, and I didn't know who they were, and I thought, whoa.
And I've met them before.
And they're good people.
They're not bad.
They're not violent.
But they get into this 1776, and we're going to do it.
You give them a flag, and they go bananas.
They go like this, and they go crazy.
And we're going to do it!
Excuse me.
Excuse me.
Who's we?
What are you talking about?
You're not going to take...
No, no.
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
What are you talking about?
What are you saying?
What are you doing?
What are you talking about?
The blood of the tree of the liberty and the...
Stop that!
The gods in the flag don't...
What are you doing?
Quit saying 1776!
Thomas Paine!
We're going to get him!
And you...
Oh my God!
And they're already planning this.
They're already saying this.
We're going to have all these people.
We're going to be in front of Trump Tower.
They're even talking about Ron DeSantis.
Ron DeSantis is going to fight extradition.
There's no extradition.
What are you talking about?
And Ron DeSantis should say something.
Ron DeSantis should say nothing.
Ron DeSantis, Nikki Haley, whoever's involved, should very simply say this.
During dependency of a criminal case, it would be improper for me to make any kind of comment.
We believe in the Constitution, we believe in due process, and we believe that the President and anybody should be accorded their day in court and accorded and afforded all protections under the Constitution and the laws of the United States.
Period!
That's it!
And whenever somebody asks you, you say, it is not proper for me to comment on a case, number one, I know nothing about, and number two, while it's pending.
It's improper for me.
Not to mention there could be a Florida connection.
I'm the governor of the state of Florida.
I can't comment on pending.
It's simple.
It's simple.
Get out of it.
You don't have to say anything.
But of course, the social media crowd, well, you've got to say something.
What are you, nuts?
No.
No.
How is Trump supposed to act during this?
Well, he's going to NCAA wrestling.
That's okay.
Don't be monastic.
Don't go to your hermitage.
Don't hang out and act like you're afraid.
But don't push it.
Don't go like this.
Tell all your family members, don't talk about this.
Don't talk about this.
Because if there's one chance, if I sat down and if I said, Mr. Bragg, Let's talk lawyer to lawyer.
Number one, you've got two cases here.
Number one, maybe you've got this, and I think, unless there's some, unless he's responsible for the Lindbergh baby, I doubt it, but we're looking at basically falsified business records, right?
Okay, these are misdemeanors.
The statute of limitations probably elapsed.
So, in order to up that, you're going to have to charge, make this felonious, make this a felony.
How do you do that?
You take the misdemeanor, and if you add this element to it, that he falsified these records to hide some crime.
What?
And I think they're saying, well, maybe.
Well, what is the crime?
Well, the story is, Cohen paid Stormy Daniels for hush money.
Excuse me, is hush money against the law?
No.
If I walked up to you and said, listen, Jerry, come here.
My name is not Jerry.
Whatever.
How long have I known you?
Since 8th grade.
Good.
Here's $100.
Don't ever tell anybody that.
Okay?
Promise me you'll never tell anybody that.
Is that legal?
Of course it's legal.
By the way, Jerry, I want you to tell people, I've known you since 7th grade.
Here's $100 for that.
And Jerry, I want you also to wear a hat.
We're a red hat every Wednesday.
Jerry, I want you to...
There's something wrong with it.
It's not against the law.
You want to pay somebody to do it?
Go ahead.
NDAs?
As common as you can imagine.
Hollywood?
The marriages?
Oh my God!
We'll get to that later on.
So, is there anything wrong with that?
No!
No, no, no, no, no, no.
Why do people do it?
I don't know.
I know this sounds corny.
You can say, maybe he didn't want to embarrass Melania.
I know.
You're going to say, what?
I know, I know.
But I don't know.
Who knows?
It's up to him.
It's up to you.
There's nothing wrong with it.
But here's the angle.
There was a campaign going on.
Is this some kind of an in-kind contribution?
Did he do this to benefit his own chances?
Yeah, maybe.
Oh, okay.
So that's kind of, sort of, maybe a campaign contribution or an in-kind contribution because you're getting somebody not...
To say something which may benefit the campaign, so therefore, that could be a federal campaign violation, maybe, perhaps?
So, maybe you can take this kind of, eh, New York State, you know, business falsified statement or filing, whatever, make it a felony by saying yes, because they improperly noted this.
To commit a crime that nobody has charged in the federal system, which is this.
And the jury's going to say, wait a minute, what?
Yes, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, when would you define that this was a federal violation?
By the way, did the feds charge him with this?
No.
Wait a minute.
The feds didn't, the feds don't care about this.
The federal government's not charging, but you want us, a New York County jury, to find that he violated federal, wait a minute, he violated federal law and he entered this, whatever, this record to hide a federal law?
Yeah.
And do you have any proof that President Trump did this knowingly?
No.
Did he?
Did somebody say, of course he did.
He told me, he said, listen, you're going to come in there and we're going to change this entry from this ledger to this ledger and we're going to...
Wait a minute, what?
You see how this is losing all?
Mr. Bragg, do you really want to go through this?
Are you kidding me?
If indeed this is what the charge is.
This is horrible.
E. Jean Carroll case, sexual battery.
Mar-a-Lago case, documents, easy.
That's a real good one.
Why?
It's administrative.
Did you have them?
Yes or no?
Were they authorized?
No.
That's it.
That's it.
It's so easy to prove.
What about the Stop the Steal in Georgia?
January 6th?
That's a good one.
And by the way, they're going to take January 6th and they're going to say, look, he's still doing it.
He's still out there.
Getting people, forcing them to, you know, to riot and say, he's not doing that.
Well, I think he is.
You see how that plays into each other?
Those are interesting cases.
But this one, Mr. Bragg, you're going to tee off with this one first?
And in the event this is a dog, and in the event there's an acquittal, they're going to use this kind of as a limited hangout.
They're going to say, in essence, for the next one, after there's an acquittal, Let's see, Jack Smith says, and now we have proof of seditious conspiracy in the January 6th.
And people are going to say, oh no, not again.
You already prosecuted him.
Oh no, no, no, no, no, no.
That was for something else.
What do you mean?
That was for a state case.
This is different.
What do you mean different?
Aren't they all the same?
No.
Yeah, but we got excited about that first one.
We spent our energy.
On that one.
Why do we want to hear?
Why are we doing this one again?
Why?
Why are we?
Limited Hangout works by introducing partial evidence, partial revelation over something even bigger so that when the big news hits, you've already inured, you've acclimated, you've habituated to this minimalistic first tranche of information.
So, the timing of this is horrible.
This shouldn't go first.
Put the other ones, let Jack Smith go first, then later on.
But no, somebody, Alvin Brake says, no, no, you're going to tee this off.
You're going to be, you're it.
You're it.
You're the anchor.
You're going to do it.
You're lead off here.
Oh my God.
Make it count.
Nothing could go wrong, could it?
I don't know.
You sure about this?
Because, Mr. Bragg, I'm telling you, in the event, this does not work.
They're going to forget you.
You don't exist.
Does the name Alberto Gonzalez come to mind?
Alberto VO5 comes to mind, and Rula Lenska, more than Alberto.
Remember Alberto Gonzalez?
Remember that?
Remember that woman?
What was her name?
Barbara?
No.
She was the Secretary of State of Florida.
Remember where she...
They got her to...
Oh, God.
What was her name?
They made fun of, of course, the way she looks.
This was during the 2000s.
Where'd she go?
I don't know.
Just gone.
Like, he never existed.
Gone.
Goodbye.
See ya.
That's that case.
The E. Jean Carroll case?
Oh, no.
That's the one I...
Oh, no.
I don't like that.
That's a civil case.
That's federal.
They're going to bring in other women?
Oh, no.
He's going to be in court for the rest of his life.
He is never going to get out of court.
I mean, he's been in litigation, but not like this.
And it's just going to...
Now, let me tell you what they're doing now.
They're also trying to get his lawyer, they're trying to get him conflicted out.
Interesting.
He was apparently on CNN or something, talking to Don Lemon or something, and may have said, theoretically, may have said, Allegedly.
That he and Stormy Daniels may have talked or did something, and if that is true, most probably either the prosecution or the court, sua sponte on its own, will move to have him conflicted, to have him taken off of the case as a conflict of interest.
They did this to Bruce Cutler, and Bruce Cutler represented John Gotti.
Bruce Cutler and Jerry Shargell were talking and on wiretaps you heard John Gotti say, you know, this should be called the Shargell and Cutler crime family because we're going to pay all these people.
And they alleged that Bruce Cutler was house counsel for John Gotti.
That was Gotti's lawyer.
So they booted him and they brought in Al Krieger from Miami.
No.
No.
Didn't work.
Your lawyer is important to be able to talk to him so you have a rapport.
You have a thing.
And I told you, going back to what I would tell Mr. Bragg, your two witnesses are Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels.
Is that right?
You got others?
You got somebody else there?
You've got the financial guy who's in Rikers still, I think.
And you got all these people who either, by the way, whether she's a porn star or whether she's a...
A first violinist for the Philharmonic.
It doesn't matter.
But she's one, and then you've got Michael Cohen.
So there you have that.
So what we have here, my friends, is a multiple moving part case that is so fascinating.
I can't say it enough to you.
It is beyond fascinating.
The moving parts of this are so great.
And so...
I don't know what the words are.
So fascinating that I do not believe for a moment that most people, certainly that I'm seeing, are going to be able to handle this.
All right.
Let me say something quickly to you.
We're kind of on an accelerated movement here.
I've got a lot of stuff going.
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Now let me explain something to you.
I am having so much fun, if there is such a thing as that.
I'm having so much fun because I am...
This is what I love out of all the topics the most.
And I have a brand new, brand spanking new website.
Not website.
YouTube channel.
At Lionel Legal.
And here is the link.
Right there.
Because it gives me the chance not only to talk about this, but to talk about the system as a whole.
How does this thing work?
Trial strategy.
Similar fact evidence.
Pre-trial publicity.
Indictment.
Charges.
The trial.
Cross-examination.
Everything.
And invariably, you have, I'm sorry, the same people saying the same thing over and over and over again about how wrong this prosecution is.
Excuse me, where have you been?
Where have you been?
There isn't anybody who's ever been prosecuted who ever said, you know what?
It's about time they charged me with this.
Now what a good and fair prosecution it is.
Exactly correct.
No.
Nobody has ever done that.
And they won't.
Prosecutors are political.
When they say, this is a political prosecution, duh, yeah, right, yeah, yeah.
Giuliani, you like him, what do you think he was?
Ask Ivan Boski when Giuliani perp-walked him and others.
And Milken, and oh my God, the whole commission case.
Ask Chertoff.
You want to talk about high-profile people?
Absolutely.
Ask Michael Jackson.
I'm not suggesting people are innocent, but shall I go through the list?
So when you get somebody who goes on Fox News or MSNBC or whatever it is and says, this is a political prosecution, you say, where have you been?
Yeah, okay.
Duh.
Yeah, okay.
And what?
Is it illegal?
Well, it's not illegal.
Well, if it's not illegal, then what are you talking about?
You're talking about the motivation?
You think any prosecutors are going to say, I can't charge them.
Well, it would appear political.
Uh-huh.
But you've got half of the people who want it done and the other half don't.
So what are you going to do?
You're going to be upsetting somebody politically.
These arguments don't make any sense.
These are boring.
The strategy is important.
And I wish I could do a TV show and have this thing and say, okay, stop the film.
Look at this guy here.
See what he's doing?
See what he's doing?
And when you see, you've got to ask yourself this question.
Do you want to be a lawyer?
Yes.
Is it a great profession?
Yes.
It's tough sometimes, but it's a good one.
There's certain things you can do, certain things you can't do.
If you have a client Who you're unable to control?
Who wants to control the case themselves?
It's doomed.
They think they know everything.
Donald Trump, I'm sorry, I don't know this, but I wouldn't be surprised if he says, no, no, no, I'm going to do it this way.
Wait a minute.
No, no, no, I'm going to do it this way.
And, if you are a lawyer who says, wait a minute, this is a chance of a lifetime.
Okay, fine.
I'll give in to what you say, even though I know it's a bad idea.
You wouldn't hear me if I were Donald Trump talk about this case.
Nobody would ever talk about it.
I wouldn't talk about it.
It would drive people crazy.
Why aren't you talking about it?
Talk about it in court.
I've got other stuff to say.
I've got other things to talk about.
About this country.
About freedom.
About the election.
And by the way, if Donald Trump is convicted, he can run for office.
Eugene V. Debs was in prison, for God's sake.
Why is he saying anything?
And that goes double for you, Don Jr.
Don't say anything about it.
Drive these people crazy.
Don't even mention it.
Like it never happened.
Talk about everything else.
Watch these tweets.
Big capital letters.
What are you doing?
It looks crazy.
Like some crazy person late at night, you know, with spray paint or stop me before I, you know, whatever.
What's his name?
George?
It was a mad bomber's name.
George, not Murkowski, but in an event.
So follow me at Lionel Legal.
Lionel Legal on YouTube.
You hear me?
Lionel Legal.
And I'm starting up.
And I can go on long form and they'll take different things.
And there's stuff that I think is, things that I think you should know about.
Because there's the courtroom, there's pre-trial, post-trial, Remember, you're playing multiple chess games, multiple cases, multiple prosecutions, multiple defendants, multiple jurisdictions, multiple everything.
This is very, very complicated.
Extremely, exceedingly complicated.
Can he handle that?
I hope so.
I hope so.
I do.
Let's see what happens with that.
Alright, my friends.
You have a great and a glorious day.
Okay?
Don't forget, as soon as we're done here, as soon as we're done, you go to Lionel Legal on YouTube, sign up.
Subscribe.
I've got some good ones coming.
Because there's so much stuff.
And the E. Jean Carroll case, that's the one that's the most interesting.
Oh my God.
That is a...
And it's civil.
In a matter of speaking, but I mean, it's not criminal.
There's no crime, no chance of incarceration.
And by the way, whenever you are charged with a crime, incarceration is theoretically possible.
And do you mean to tell me, somebody said, well, I'm not going to put him in jail.
Really?
Are you kidding me?
Look around you.
We live in a world right now where people go crazy on airplanes, where people go crazy at airports, where people go crazy because you're not wearing a mask.
Why?
Because social media promotes that.
And because we're being used to acting like that, and because people act like that, people get the attention from it, they act accordingly.
Okay?
So whatever the rules of civility were five, ten years ago, they're gone now.
They're gone.
Okay?
Post-COVID, post-Trump, post-2020, it's a different world.
Completely different.
You know that, and I know that.
All right, my friends.
Have a great and a glorious day.
Thank you so, so very much for watching.
Have a great and terrific day.
Remember, we love when you comment as you see fit.
We love you to do that.
We love you.
So anyway, don't forget this valedictory, as we say every single day.
We'll be back tomorrow, same bad time, same bad channel, 9 a.m. Eastern Time.
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