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March 20, 2023 - Lionel Nation
01:08:30
Prosecuting Donald Trump

The specifics.

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*crash*
All right, my friends.
I want you to think and ask yourself this question.
Are you really able to handle this?
Because I'll be able to take you through a journey regarding the prosecution of Donald Trump, but only if you can handle it.
And you have to promise me a couple of things.
First of all, whatever your political inclinations are, I don't care about them.
Get rid of them.
Whatever they are, I don't care.
This is not about politics.
It is, but not from what I'm saying.
I'm looking at the facts of the case.
I'm looking at something which is so important, and this is something which I know a little bit about.
And it's the trial.
And it's this thing you're given.
You have two parties here.
Prosecution, they get to take all the time they want, within reason.
You know, I have no boxing experience.
But if you let me plan, If he said, listen, you're going to have to knock this guy out.
You get to pick out when you're going to do it.
But, by the way, here's his x-rays.
You might want to go to this side.
He has a prior fracture here.
He's got...
Wait for this.
Plan it.
Think ahead.
You might or you might not do it.
But at least you can find out when, you can find out when he, or pick the moment when he's least able, maybe he's defenseless, distract him.
That's what the prosecution does.
The prosecution gets to pick.
It's their case.
Out of all of the charges, all of the, are they going after January 6th?
Well, not in this case.
Are you going to be talking about any kind of election denial?
No.
What do you mean?
Talking about, okay, Alvin Bragg, what's your case?
He's the Manhattan DA.
What's your case going to be against Trump?
Falsifying business records.
Wait a minute.
No, seriously.
What is it?
It appears to be falsifying business records.
That's what you wanted?
That's it?
Pretty much.
Now, we don't know.
Theoretically, they could return an indictment Tuesday that's racketeering, which, wow!
Not really.
Nobody's picking up on that.
They're going through all of the prior...
What am I trying to say?
They're going through all of the initial steps that you normally involve yourself in when you indict somebody.
They're doing everything indicating this, and it seems that it's going to be falsifying business records.
Now, this is Alvin Bragg.
He's the DA.
And of course, people are making fun of him, his weight, what he looks like.
This is social media.
This is a part I just despise this.
I despise this.
If you think he is some fool, you don't know what you're talking about.
If you think that he's working on this and he's not getting the best legal advice and assistance from all over the place, if you think this is basically contained within his office, No.
No.
There's nothing illegal with this, nothing improper.
But he's really, really, I mean, all eyes are on him.
Are there political implications of this?
Of course there are.
Can Donald Trump get a fair trial?
Depends what you mean by fair.
Depends what you mean by fair.
What is a fair trial?
I don't know what that means.
What about a change of venue?
Can he get a fair trial in Manhattan?
Or Manhattan, as they say.
Well, what's a fair trial?
Michigan against Tucker said you were entitled to a fair trial, but not a perfect one.
So it seems to be something like this.
So this is the prosecution.
They're going to proceed against Donald Trump.
That's step one.
Forget why and all this stuff.
Now, What's he doing?
What is Donald Trump doing?
Probably he's done more wrong things, and he hasn't even been charged yet.
His lawyer, ostensibly, might be conflicting out.
They're alleging, and by the way, you've got to read everything.
Don't keep going.
Don't go just to Fox News or CNN to get your take.
You read everything.
And the more detached, the more sterile, the better.
But already they're trying to conflict him out because somebody, at some point, Trump's lawyer, appeared on Don Lemon, which is another one, another thing about going on TV and being a media lawyer.
We'll talk about that.
But he may have said it is going to be alleged.
He may have said, yes, well, I either spoke to, consulted with, whatever, Stormy Daniels.
If he did, and if a judge says, you know what, I think you did, because now he's saying, oh, no, no, no, I misspoke.
She contacted my office.
I never spoke to her.
We never had any business with her because he's conflicted out.
There's a conflict of interest.
You know and I know when you are a very rich person and you are, let's say, you're a gazillionaire.
And you're going to divorce your wife, but she doesn't know it, which is usually the case.
You go to every high-power lawyer there is in town first.
They don't take your case, but you went to them.
You went to this person.
You advised this person.
You gave information to this person.
This person cannot turn around and then represent your wife after you went there first.
It's a tactic which is used all the time.
You want to conflict the lawyer out.
So it's a conflict of interest.
So the first thing they're going to try to do is they're going to try to get Trump's lawyer off the case.
Why?
To mix things up.
Remember years ago, there was a guy named Bruce Cutler.
Bruce Cutler represented John Gotti.
Bruce Cutler, oh, he got into it.
He and Chargel.
Not so much Chargel, but...
Bruce Cutler was, he, I mean, he got into it and he became, and next thing you know, they saw, they were at the Ravenite, they were at, they were at the, you know, he was hanging out with Gotti and going, and Gotti's on a wire saying, boy, I've got the, it's not the, it's not the, Cutler and the Gotti family.
It's the Cutler and Shargell crime family.
What they intimated, what they explained to a judge was they said, Bruce Cutler is really house counsel for the Gotti crime family.
Whether it's true or not, it doesn't really matter.
So they had to conflict out Bruce Cutler, get rid of Gotti's longtime attorney, which was horrible, and they brought in this guy Al Krieger from Miami who...
So don't be surprised if that happens.
That's over here.
And the judge could say, well, in an abundance of caution, because why?
Stormy Daniels is Alvin Bragg's chief witness.
Theoretically, they're going to claim, wait a minute, you've got a lawyer representing Trump.
Who may have...
And by the way, it doesn't take a lot of contact with people for you to conflict out.
You're going to cross-examine her using information you gained and gleaned.
Again, it's kind of exaggerated.
But don't be surprised if that happens.
And if they do conflict him out...
By the way, you want to be on the EG and Carol case?
Go ahead.
That's nothing to do with this.
But this one's a different story.
So that's where they're going now.
Next.
Somebody go to Miami or Palm Beach and grab Don Jr., grab his machine, his phone, and turn him off.
Send him and put him in a monastery, maybe on the top of a mountain.
Get him out of here.
Get him out of here.
Keep your mouth shut.
Keep your mouth shut.
What are you doing?
What are you doing?
I don't understand this.
What do you think this is?
I don't understand.
I don't understand.
Now, you may think this is great.
You may love this.
But if I'm running the show for Trump, I'm going to say, you, shut up.
You, if you, you can tweet about anything else.
Don't mention this case.
Don't mention the witnesses.
Don't mention the charge.
Don't mention the DA.
You can talk about the Constitution, the presumption of innocence, due process, whatever you want.
Shut up.
The same thing goes for your girlfriend.
Who might have been represented by this lawyer in the past and all this?
Shut up!
And as for you, President Trump, close the door, please.
Yes, what the hell are you thinking?
What did you write?
What are you posting?
Are you telling people to...
What are you telling people to do?
I don't want you to rise up.
What?
What?
I don't care what you say.
You don't direct anybody to do anything.
May I remind you that you still have January 6th charges?
Do you know what seditious conspiracy is?
I've been through this a million times.
You've got serious, serious, serious issues here.
We're not done with this.
We've got this Georgia case.
We've got this Georgia case.
It's serious.
We're not done with that one.
You've got the January 6th case.
You've got other stuff here.
You've got Tish James.
She's got this massive civil fraud case.
You've got E. Jean Carroll.
Oh, that's another one.
That's a big, big, big problem.
Remember, you've got Weisselberg.
They're going to put pressure on him.
This is serious, serious, serious, serious, serious stuff.
So, I'm checking here.
Oh, Jack Smith, special counsel.
So, what are you doing?
What are you doing?
What are you saying this for?
Don't even hint at this.
Don't even hint at this.
Don't...
Ever talk about anything because whatever you say, remember, whatever you say, you're going to be taken, you're going to take out of context.
They're going to take everything you say out of context.
And I don't care whether Nancy Pelosi says it or whether this one says it or whether, well, they get to march.
How come we don't get to march?
I don't want to hear that.
What are you doing?
What are you doing?
I don't under...
This is where I just say, you're killing me.
You're killing me.
If I'm in charge now, nobody else.
You may be the former president.
By the way, here's one for you.
Should you be able to use the term President Trump in a courtroom?
Watch.
Don't be surprised if there is a motion in limine.
Oh, and by the way, have you signed up?
Yes or no?
Have you signed up for my other...
Are you subscribing to my other channel?
Which is all Trump all the time.
Not all Trump, but all prosecution and all.
It's fascinating because there's so many.
I thought the OJ case was good.
I like six of them.
You got the Carroll case.
You got the Georgia case.
You got this one.
You got Jack Smith.
You got everything.
Lionel Legal.
Go to YouTube.
Sign up.
Lionel Legal.
I just do nothing but this because I'm running all this because there's so much to tell you.
But here's the first question.
Will they be able to use the term President Trump?
We saw this before.
How about this?
You're prosecuting a guy who's in the...
Can he wear his military uniform?
Remember when...
Remember when...
Oliver North wore his Marine uniform when he testified before Congress?
Was it Brendan Sullivan who did?
That was beautiful.
Can a priest wear his priest?
Maybe that's not a good thing, though.
But is he called President Trump?
And how does a jury deal with that?
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, good morning.
My name is so-and-so.
I represent President Trump.
We hope you've had a good time.
I hope the Secret Service outside the door You know, because they are charged with protecting the President of the United States, former, you know that, right?
I hope it doesn't cause a problem, because when you have a former President of the United...
Now, that may work against him.
I don't know.
But let me get to this question right away.
This may not be a popular thing to say, but I'm going to tell you.
I really trust juries.
I really trust juries.
I really trust them.
They're really good.
They're really, really good.
But you gotta help them.
And you gotta work with them.
And we're gonna talk about that.
I'm gonna tell you stuff you're never gonna hear on TV.
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Ever.
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Ever, ever, ever.
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Okay.
Now let me tell you something.
You're not going to hear anything on TV this way because you don't have enough time.
And the people are so boring.
They're so boring.
I'm going to throw so many things at you.
In no particular order, get ready.
Just get ready to follow this.
Here's what I want to do.
Imagine this.
Opening statement.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, my name is...
I represent President Trump.
Objection!
What?
What?
That's who he is.
A motion to eliminate is something you...
A motion you filed beforehand to kind of instruct him.
What are you going to...
Mr. Trump?
Come on.
All right.
Good.
I will also be telling President Trump, before we begin, please, I'm interrupting myself, because as I'm talking to you, I'm thinking about this.
Close the door, everybody.
Okay, listen to me.
We're going to promise, we're going to teach you something.
I don't want you to do this.
I don't want you to make any faces.
This is going to kill you.
Assuming we're going to go to Trump, assuming this thing goes to Trump, he's sitting there in a courtroom to press Donald Trump.
You're not going to do this.
We're going to practice.
I'm not going to coach you, but we're going to show you how you listen.
And when you are watching this, I want you to imagine in the back of your mind, you are watching the most boring lecture you've ever heard in your life.
You're at a lecture on African violent propagation, and you're like this.
How would you look like this?
You're listening to basically nonsense, lies, But you don't make any reaction.
You're an innocent man.
How does an innocent man look?
You're interested.
You're respectful.
You don't go like that.
You're not you.
I don't want you to be you.
I want your family out of here.
And Don Jr., get him out of here.
Don, here's your ticket.
Go to a monastery.
Take your girlfriend.
Get out of town.
Go!
Go!
You got that?
I don't want any of your famous friends there.
Not like they did for Gotti.
Remember when Anthony Quinn came?
Remember his case?
Nobody.
We don't need him.
No, no, no, no.
Because if somebody doesn't like us, oh, look at this guy.
Because you know your friends, these media slugs are going to go there just to get their name in.
You tell them.
Stay away.
Make it look like it's just you.
Focus on you.
You're just a man on trial.
Trial for his life.
Happens to be a former president.
And you are not going to be making smirks.
You're not going to be making these expressions.
You're not going to be doing this.
Period!
I know how you do this.
You're not going to do that.
Because they're going to be watching you.
Okay.
Now, ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
My name is Shum.
I represent a former president.
We're here today for one reason and one reason only.
And again, assuming this is true, New York, state of New York, the prosecution, Mr. Bragg's office, has charged President Trump with falsifying business records.
Stop right there.
Let's assume, I think, that's what it's going to be.
It's what it appears to be.
I don't think it's going to be racketeering or anything.
It's going to be falsifying business records.
How dull is that?
Dear God!
Did you hear me?
Falsifying.
That's the record.
And, as the judge will instruct you, depending upon what it is, if it's felonious, if it's made, if it's a, did I tell you?
Ha, did I forget?
It's a misdemeanor!
It's a misdemeanor.
I'm not going to emphasize the point enough, because a misdemeanor can get you up to a year in a county jail, or whatever, to Rikers.
So aside from that, it's a misdemeanor.
And in order for it to become felonious, which I, if, we'll get to this in a moment, he has to have falsified with the intention of kind of covering up some other crime.
What crime?
Now, Little parenthetical note here.
You've got statutes of limitation.
If it's a misdemeanor, these may be over.
These are like the days of 2007.
What did you do as an NDA?
NDAs, non-disclosure agreements, are not against the law.
And you will be instructed.
We have a special jury instruction, which we hope the judge will take judicial notice of the fact, or we will have a jury instruction that tells you NDAs are not against the law.
If I walk up to you and say, listen to me, come here.
Jerry, how long have I known you?
Since what?
Eighth grade?
Yeah, good.
Here's $100.
Don't ever tell anybody that, okay?
You got that?
$100.
Don't tell anybody that.
That's legal.
You don't want me to tell you?
Don't tell them you know.
Okay.
Nothing wrong with that.
Now, if I suborn perjury, if I get you to change testimony, it's a different story, but NDAs are what make Hollywood Hollywood.
You know it and I know it.
And in order for a misdemeanor to be brought to the statute of limitations may be over.
And that's just falsifying business records.
If you raise it to a felony to make it felonious, where you have a longer statute of limitations and a longer period of time to file it timely, we haven't even done motions yet.
We haven't even filed charges.
Nothing.
This is pre-pre-pre.
In that case, You're going to have to show that Donald Trump, President Donald Trump, intended to do this to cover up another crime.
What crime?
It makes it even more complicated.
You understand that?
That's it.
And the jury said, let me say this again, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, that's the case.
And we have a big poster here.
This is the case.
Falsifying businessmen.
And here's the best part.
Ladies and gentlemen, he's got to know he did that.
Now, jumping ahead.
Michael Cohen.
Stormy Daniels.
Get them off.
Mr. Cohen.
Under the federal rules of evidence, you could be very Got to be careful with this.
Have you ever been convicted of a felony?
Have you ever been convicted of a crime involving dishonesty or false statement?
Crimin, falsy crimes?
Rules of cross-examination.
Leading questions.
Leading questions.
I want him off as soon as possible.
I'm only going to use him.
Imagine I want to bring something into the courtroom that is so, it smells so bad.
It makes everybody sick and I want to bring it in just...
For as little as possible, just to make my point, and then get rid of it.
I just want to get rid of it.
Ladies and gentlemen, my client found this in her Cobb salad.
It's a dead rat.
Okay, get rid of it.
That's all I did.
I just want you to know it.
That's it.
That's Michael Cohen.
He's a dead rat.
He's something that I am forced to bring to your attention.
Mr. Cohen, you're a convicted felon, are you not?
Yes.
You're a convicted felon by this?
Yes.
For lying about this?
Yes.
So you're a convicted liar?
You know, you're a liar.
Mr. Cohen, you cannot tell this jury, can you?
Whether President Trump knowingly entered this record into the files or into the ledger or into the whatever, you can't do that, can you?
No.
Thank you.
No further questions.
Get him out of there!
And then later on, why am I doing that?
Because in closing, I'm going to say, part of this is mens rea, criminal mind.
You've got to be able to tell the jury.
Trump knew this!
He knew about this!
So who did I ask?
I asked their main witness.
Cohen, can you tell this?
No.
There you go.
Bring in Stormy Daniels.
You treat her with respect.
You don't do anything.
Nothing.
You've got women on the jury.
I don't need her.
Get her out of here.
Now, you could really be Miss Daniels, or your real name is whatever.
I understand you're an actress.
May I read a list of the names of some of your movies?
No!
Might be funny.
SNL stuff, but not for this.
Miss Daniels, you cannot Tell the jury that you are aware of how President Trump entered this transaction in his ledger.
Can you?
No.
Thank you.
No further questions.
Get him out of here.
Get her off.
And have the jury say, wow.
Later on in closing, you probably wonder why they didn't say anything.
They didn't know anything.
You know why I didn't call you as a witness?
Well, you're a juror, because you don't know anything either.
Mr. Bragg has to prove, not that there was an NDA, not that the president had an affair, not that he...
No!
He falsified business records, and that he knew it.
And if Weisselberg would ever come, his other...
You think Trump sits there and says, yeah, do me a favor.
Hey, Al, make sure...
Okay, move it from this category to this one.
Can you move it here?
Yeah.
And in your case in chief, when you put in your case, by the way, Trump's not going to testify, you can have anybody, state your name for the record?
Do you work for the Trump Organization?
Yes.
Did President Trump ever have any say or knowledge as to how payments or records were kept?
I've noticed you're laughing hysterically.
What?
He did this?
No.
Who actually changed this?
Did he do this?
No.
Did he know where they were?
No.
Are you sure about that?
Yeah.
That's it.
That's it.
All this stuff.
Closing argument.
Jumping ahead.
Ladies and gentlemen, this was about, very simply this, falsifying business records.
And not only did they not prove that he knew about the falsified business records, but to prove a felony, he had to prove that he did this knowing he's covering up another crime.
What crime?
What are you talking about?
There is nothing wrong.
There is nothing against the law with NDAs.
Nothing.
And the question is not whether Mr. Cohen paid her off and then he reimbursed Cohen.
No!
That's not it.
It's how did you consider this and under the most.
Extreme of theories.
You could say that this was an in-kind contribution that maybe should have violated state election laws because of what?
And meanwhile, by the way, the feds, the feds don't want this.
Who has the election laws?
Feds!
Southern District of New York doesn't want this.
They don't want this case.
Get rid of it.
But Alvin Bragg did.
Alvin Bragg paused this case.
Mr. Bragg, by the way, nobody's fool.
His office said, you know what, we're not going to do this.
And he had people leaving.
Remember he had two big shot prosecutors walked off.
Donald Trump committed crimes.
And even Bragg said, this is a dog.
I don't know what to do with this.
Right?
Remember that one?
Remember that?
Of course you do.
Of course you do.
That's what happened.
And now all of a sudden, what, somebody breathed life into this?
Mr. Bragg, what happened?
Do you have new facts here?
These cases are ancient.
What are you talking about?
And the reason why you tell them is that, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, this is closing now, you have one issue to ask.
Answer, one issue.
Did Mr. Bragg's office, did the prosecution prove beyond and to the exclusion Of every reasonable doubt, that President Donald John Trump, knowingly, by the way, there's mens rea,
there's mens rea, the criminal mind, actus reus, the actual act itself, you know, there's, the actus reus is pulling the trigger, mens rea is wanting to kill you, that he, with a guilty mind, deliberately, knowingly, intentionally, falsified the record, he didn't know!
The records were!
He didn't have anything to do with this.
What he did, as the evidence showed, and as the prosecution was unable to disprove, or prove, however you look at it, he didn't do anything.
This is about record keeping.
Let me say this again.
Scrivener's error, or whatever you want to call it.
This is an accounting case.
This is accounting.
This is a misdemeanor case.
And nobody, and by the way, we don't have to prove anything.
Reasonable doubt stops the train.
It derails it.
Once you have a reasonable doubt, a doubt you can attach a reason to, that's it.
It's done.
And why do I do that?
So that when they go back home and they say, were you on that jury?
Yeah.
You acquitted Trump?
Yeah.
Well, here's why.
It was because it was an accounting case.
Oh, I didn't know that.
Okay, that's all right.
Oh, no, I didn't.
The question was whether he was a good president or...
Oh, no, no, no, no.
It's very...
And that's what you do.
Okay, hold the line for a moment.
Hold the line.
Is this making more sense to you?
I hope it is, because it's fascinating.
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Now, once they charge, once this officially, they're going to bring Trump in, are they going to handcuff him?
I'd say probably not.
There's no need to.
It's not mandatory.
It's not mandatory.
Are they going to perp-walk him?
Probably not.
Why is that?
Well, because the Secret Service.
The Secret Service is going to say, no, no, no, no, no, no.
You're not going to have him walk.
Do you ever see a perp walk in New York?
It's really something.
They always have, they bring him out of the local precinct and the cameras are there.
They're not going to do that with Trump because it's a risk.
So it'll be done very quietly.
It'll be done, why?
Not to shield publicity, but for his own good, his own protection and the like.
Why they can't waive this, I have no idea.
They have arraignments in hospital rooms.
They've arrested, arraigned people who are, and by the way, the arraignment, or as one client of mine called it, an arrangement.
This is where you are officially notified of the charges against you.
It's a bit, it's kind of formulaic, but you are read.
You enter a plea or you obtain, your plea is always not guilty.
Why?
Because if you plead guilty, it's over with.
Bond is determined.
And this is normally, this is already figured out ahead of time.
It's not going to be a bond issue.
Trump is not going to leave.
He's not going to flee.
I don't think they're going to grab his passport.
He's a former president.
And by the way, it's not that they're courting him any kind of specific benefits for this.
It's because it's a practical matter.
We don't need to do this.
We don't need to do this.
And that's it.
And what you have to do is you've got to make sure that you act as sterile as possible.
And what his lawyers have to do, whoever his lawyers are, is say the following, something to the effect.
We do our...
Comments and our statements in the courtroom and in pleadings.
That is the tribunal.
That is the stage.
Thank you very much.
That's it.
Don't go on TV.
And sure as hell, don't go on TV with no ratings, something that's similar to like a baby monitor rate.
Don't do this because you're going to say something stupid.
Your job as the lawyer is to do one of two things.
Well, many, but one.
The first is to defend zealously.
And the second is, don't make it worse.
Make it boring.
And then, you want to be able to do this.
And this is what's always forgotten.
Mr. Bragg, yes, I want you to know something.
I have no intention of making you or your office look bad.
And I suggest, I assume you feel the same way.
I'm not going to double team you.
I'm not going to make it bad on you.
Because you know what?
If I do something, it's my client that gets hurt, not me.
Trust me.
And there's nothing better than two professionals dealing with each other and not acting like jerks.
I'm telling you.
Who do these people think they are?
No, no, no, no.
In fact, one of the most beautiful things you could do is to make it sound like you almost feel sorry for them.
I respect Mr. Bragg and his office, and I understand the tremendous responsibility they have to not only represent the people of the city of New York, but also to accord and afford my client to process rights.
And I understand.
And believe me, we've all been there.
It's almost like saying, Mishkino, poor thing, pobre, this poor guy.
He's under a lot of pressure right now.
Now remember, there are other issues involved here too.
Other issues.
You've got a Gene Carroll case coming up.
You've got a Georgia case coming up.
With that loopy, remember that grand juror?
I don't know what that is.
You've also got the Jack Smith case.
You've got other stuff.
You don't want these people to feel like, don't worry, brag.
Whatever you do, we're going to get this guy.
No, no, no, no.
You want to act like, let's be gentlemen about this.
We're not going to go on TV.
And nobody tweets anything about this.
Do you understand that?
Nothing.
Mr. Trump, do you understand that?
Yes.
Your social...
May I see your phone?
Here is your social, truth social password.
I just changed it.
You can't use this anymore.
If you do, talk about the weather, how great everything is.
Don't.
There's so much to talk about.
Talk about the ICC.
Talk about bank failures.
Talk about anything you want.
Not this.
Not this.
And there is nothing.
And it's surgical.
Now let me explain to you what this is also.
When you're in court like this, you have got your client.
And this is the...
You can have the best case in the world.
But your client is a nut.
Or is...
Won't listen to you.
Or wants to run the case.
You should do this.
Wait a minute.
Wait a minute.
Hold on.
What?
You should call this one.
Subpoena this one.
Wait!
Whoa, whoa, whoa!
It's very surgical.
Imagine this.
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury.
Do you remember when I first...
This is closing argument.
Closing is the best.
Do you remember when we first met?
Oh, by the way, a great technique.
Jerry Spence used to do this.
When you cross-examine anybody, whether it's Stormy Daniels or Michael Cohen, you always thank you very much for being with us today.
Your Honor, I have no further questions.
Thank you.
Thank you for coming here.
Thank you very much.
We appreciate it.
I'm a subpoena.
What are you talking about?
Make it sound like it's my invitation.
Thank you.
Ms. Daniels, we don't have any further questions.
Thank you so much.
Thank you very much.
Have a good day.
Boom!
Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, remember when I crossed the agreement?
I had nothing to say.
She has nothing to do with the case.
Remember, and you have this big poster here, this is the charge.
Falsifying, again, assuming it's this.
I don't think there's any kidnapping or anything.
This is the issue here.
This is it.
This is it.
Did she have any information on this?
Nope.
What's there to do?
Nothing.
Did Mr. Cohen have any information as to whether President Trump knowingly falsified him?
No.
And you want the jury to say, did you know this was about an accounting issue, basically?
Keep calling it that.
Call it an accounting issue.
I defended somebody years ago who was charged with...
It was an attempted first-degree murder.
And this person was shot in the head a number of occasions.
Persons lived.
That's why it's attempted.
Thank God.
And I refer to this as it was shot in the face versus the head.
Now, it may not sound like that much to you, but changing the way something is said, the way you frame it, the way you think of it, it changes everything.
So if you can call things accounting, by the way, that case was an acquittal, but if you call it an accounting, this is an accounting.
This is a hounding issue.
This is a bookkeeper's mistake.
However you do it, without lying, but that's what this is.
You want the jury to say, that's what this is?
You have no idea when somebody says, here's Stormy Daniels.
Boy, I can't wait till he wakes her off over the coast.
No!
She's not my witness!
She's going to hurt us!
Get her off!
What do you think this is?
What?
Some kind of what?
Some cable news show?
No!
Then you get somebody and say, well, he was pretty disrespectful.
What did she have to do?
She didn't...
And people are going to be waiting, waiting to call into question her morals and her...
Stormy Daniels!
No!
Get her off this!
Thank you!
People love this!
Remember this Murdaugh, Murdag, Mur, whatever this guy?
What were they doing?
And there's nothing worse than the prosecutor who gets up there because he just wants to talk.
So, Miss Daniels!
That's not your real name, is it?
You know, what are you doing?
So, you must really enjoy being here today, huh?
No, as a matter of fact, I don't.
Okay, there it goes.
Whatever you do, and then you open the door, and opening the door, oh my God.
Oh my God.
When you hear, Counselor, I think you've opened the door.
Oh no!
That means something that we wanted to keep out, now is in, because I kind of introduced it.
There used to be this thing years ago.
You've got to be very careful when you ask, have you ever been convicted of a crime?
Objection.
Because it's under the rules, have you ever been convicted of a felony?
Have you ever been convicted of a crime involving dishonesty or false statement?
A crim and false event?
So what happened was, there was this motion in limine.
I mentioned it before.
Most probably they're going to ask whether you can or cannot mention Trump's name.
Anyway, this prosecutor wanted this guy to understand.
They wanted to get into his record.
He had misdemeanors, no felonies.
So he kept going like this.
And he had something in his hand.
And he said, so, Mr. Edison, I don't know how it happened.
But either he says, do you know what this is?
Or the witness said, What is that?
And he said, what is this?
It's your rap sheet.
And you were convicted of it.
He said, no, no, judge.
He opened the door.
And the judge said, he didn't open the door.
You said, what is that?
Anyway, sometimes you can...
When you go in there in the court, you don't know what's going to happen.
Somebody will say something and say, what was that?
What was that?
And that's why it's so hard.
There's nothing worse than when you're trying to listen.
And the client's like talking to you.
Ask them.
No.
Shh.
Watch this.
Watch the jury.
Watch this.
Oh, and every time you think you know the jury, oh, who's going to be the foreperson?
Who's going to be the anchor?
Did they come in?
Did they look at you?
Did they look at the defendant?
Did they?
What?
How long did they take?
Fast verdicts to help the defendant.
What?
Fast verdicts.
Was it slow?
Everybody's got these rules.
Everybody's got these rules.
Well, you know, if it's a lot of women, whoever's good.
Well, we have a woman whose teachers are great for prosecutors because they're into the rules.
And the military is good because they're a bunch of drunks.
People used to always say for DUIs, get somebody in the military for a defensive juror because they drink a lot.
It's like, what are you talking about?
By the same token, they...
Then they would say, teachers are real punctilious about the rules.
Excuse me?
Where did you get this from?
Black jurors?
White jurors?
Well, don't make sure you get...
Are they Republicans?
Are they...
If you get that jury in there and you say...
You're not going to decide on the jury form whether you like President Trump, whether you would vote for him, whether you're a Democrat.
No, the question is, did the state prove beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt whether he knowingly, actually, intentionally falsified accounting records or whatever it is?
That's it!
Now you can do that, but that means keeping your mouth shut.
Loads of pretrial motions.
Oh my god.
Motion, motion, motion.
The first thing they're going to do is they're going to attack it on the statute of limitations.
When did this happen?
When is the end?
Oh, we're going to have a ball with that one.
Then we get into it, see what happened.
Remember, he's got other cases too.
Let's also, oh, oh, oh, oh.
Make sure in your motion, eliminate.
We have a couple of things.
You're not going to bring up any other charges.
Any other cases that are pending?
Okay.
Don't mention anything about the January 6th?
Okay.
Don't mention anything about the Georgia investigation?
Okay.
Don't mention anything about Jack Smith?
Okay.
Don't mention anything about E. Gene Carroll?
Okay.
Don't mention the fact that he was impeached?
Don't mention Mar-a-Lago.
Don't mention the Rockmans?
And you've got about a hundred things that they can't mention, because that would be a mistrial.
And then you just set the traps.
Little mouse traps.
And somebody walking around is going to snare one of them.
You watch it.
Load them up.
And it makes sense.
Let's talk about this.
Don't bring up this.
Don't bring up the family.
Don't bring up a bit.
Don't bring up a bit.
Don't bring up Russian collusion.
Don't bring up anything.
Nothing.
Nothing.
Just focus.
And just wait.
That's going to be interesting too.
And then, and this is the hardest part, especially for the media addicted lawyer to sit back and say, I don't want to hear anything about this.
You tell your secretary, we're taking no media.
Nothing.
Run silent, run deep.
Social media.
Social media...
Let me stop for a minute.
Social media changes everything.
Everything.
Like you cannot believe.
I've never seen anything like it.
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Social media is something you do not understand.
You don't understand it.
I don't understand it.
I don't appreciate it by virtue of the absolute endless...
When I was a kid, maybe you were, when TV came, they went crazy.
Marshall McLuhan, the medium is a message.
TV, TV, look what TV is.
This is...
We had O.J. Simpson when I was on WABC in the morning.
I don't know what the ratings are.
I have no idea.
I haven't listened to that station in forever.
But at the time, for a very long time, we had the biggest numbers ever for Morning Drive.
Ever.
Ever.
Two books in a row.
And why was it?
Well, it was O.J. Simpson.
Was it O.J. Simpson?
Not really, because I only talked about it one hour of the morning.
But it was something that was so interesting, because people loved it.
And if you remember, O.J. Simpson was so...
I remember where you were.
People would go into bars and say, hey, would you turn off the nicks, and can we watch the trial?
And everybody was a blood splatter expert, and people were into hearsay.
And it was the most important time in the world, because it was a chance for lawyers to explain to other people, this is how this thing works.
It's not what you think.
You will never learn anything about the law by watching TV.
And then you will never watch everybody.
On TV, they say things that make absolutely no sense.
There are some great, great, great legal folks.
Jonathan Turley is excellent.
Andy McCarthy is superb.
A lot of folks are very, very good, but they're very, very surgical about this.
They're not...
You know, raising all kinds of help.
Most great lawyers are not on TV and doing all this stuff.
But I always thought, I want to introduce you to this wonderful world.
And to show you this.
This is what you are entitled to know.
The Sixth Amendment entitles you to a public and a speedy trial.
And the public part, I think, is important.
I think lawyers should do more to let you know what it is.
I think it's incumbent upon us to let you know.
I do.
And lawyers get a bad rap.
And judges get a bad rap.
And DAs get a bad rap.
And everybody gets a bad rap because you kind of think that they, you know, you think they do.
And Alvin Bragg is nobody to trifle with.
Now, he's an elected official and you're entitled to have your piece on that.
But what this is right now is a very, very simple thing.
The jury sits back and the jury, like a pathologist or a radiologist, holds up the x-ray or holds up the result and says, yep.
Broken leg.
That's it.
I don't know how it was broken.
I don't know who this is.
I don't know why.
It was broken.
That's it.
Yep.
Pregnant.
She's pregnant.
To get EPT.
Home pregnancy.
Why do you want to find out your home's pregnant?
I have no idea.
Anyway.
Pregnant.
I don't know who this is.
I don't know why.
Or you're not pregnant.
And I don't know if you're not pregnant because you're infertile or you got a problem.
I have no idea.
I don't know.
I got one simple thing.
Pregnant, not pregnant.
Broken, not broken.
That's it.
Guilty, not guilty.
Did you prove your case or not?
That's it.
I don't care who it is.
And justice is blind, but the jury should be blind too.
And juries are pretty doggone good.
And they will ask you.
They will ask you a question and say, you didn't prove this.
You didn't prove this case.
There were times when I said, I knew, for example, that in the case of the George Zimmerman case, Trayvon Martin, I knew they would acquit him because of Florida's law, because of the stand your ground, and because of the facts of the case.
Not whether I liked George Zimmerman, no.
Whether I didn't like Trayvon Martin, no.
It wasn't that about, it was the facts of the case.
People went crazy because they looked at it passionately, but not in terms of the facts of the case.
Casey Anthony, remember that one?
I said, right off the bat, right off the bat, she's going to be acquitted because there's no way you're going to be able to prove homicide on her part or attribute it to her because there's no evidence even of homicide.
You found the remains of this poor child, but we don't know what happened to the child, and there has to be evidence of homicide.
You don't even know.
And whenever people try to do this, they always...
They impart their own particular way of looking at things.
When O.J. Simpson came about, I saw this case through the criminal case and then went to Santa Monica and saw it in the civil case, two completely different versions of this.
But I was trying to explain to people what the O.J. Simpson crowd did.
And by the way, Johnny Cochran was a great friend of mine and he was one of the kindest gentlemen ever.
He was just superb and aces.
He created a reasonable doubt.
That's all.
You just need one little doubt.
And he created a bunch of...
Sometimes doubts in things that aren't really even critical to the case.
Did you have the blood in your pocket?
Was it your left pocket or your right pocket?
He didn't even know which pocket he put it in.
Not guilty.
Wait a minute.
People went crazy during OJ.
Everybody became a blood splatter expert.
How come there wasn't more blood in the Bronco?
Remember that one?
How come there wasn't more blood in the Bronco?
My response?
How come there was any blood?
In the Bronco.
What are you talking about?
Now, what is happening right now is we're at the prefatory stage.
Normally we don't get to see pre-indictment.
Normally we find out somebody's charged and that's it.
The people involved, Stormy Daniels, Michael Avenatti, he was involved, Michael Cohen, Trump, all these people.
Every one of them just...
And of course, the media.
And you have media folks, you have TV stations, in particular TV networks, who are dying on the vine.
You know what I'm saying?
They're dying on the vine.
And they're over there.
Please come on the show.
Please come on the show.
You got every booker.
Please come on the show.
Please, please, please.
I got him!
I got him!
Who?
I got the Trump lawyer or whatever it is.
Because they're dying.
And they hope that when they put the Trump lawyer on with this guy, it'll go viral.
Okay, fine.
Can the defendant get a fair trial?
Yeah.
What does fair mean?
I don't know.
Can a Manhattan jury handle Trump?
Sure.
Will they be fair?
Could be.
Maybe not.
I'm not sure what a non-fair trial is.
I think some of the ones in the old days, Philadelphia, Mississippi, you know, they had these people laughing, and it was terrible.
Terrible.
That's why the feds had to come in.
Jurors are very, very good when you give them one question.
Because remember, I'm not asking you whether you like Trump.
I'm not asking you.
This is not a vote.
This is about, did Mr. Bragg's office prove falsification of business records or whatever, and that Trump knew about it.
That's it.
Yes or no?
Well, if you put it that way, and that's what a defense lawyer does.
Well, if you put it that way, yeah.
No.
And you focus on it.
That's it.
That's it.
But they don't do that.
They talk about other stuff.
And this is the unfairness.
And how come?
And what about Hunter Biden?
Who cares about Hunter Biden?
We're not talking about Hunter Biden.
That's another story.
That's for Twitter.
Go ahead and talk about Hunter Biden.
I don't care about Hunter Biden.
It doesn't matter.
I was the one, by the way, who brought up the fact that Hunter Biden, I think it's cheesy what they did with his laptop.
Sorry, I don't like that.
I don't like that one.
Not because I don't like it, but because I think there are legal reasons for this.
Now, what you will find is that the courtroom is the most un-theatrical, un-dramatic, un-entertaining, non-entertaining, whatever, place you can imagine.
It's very cold.
And people who yell and scream?
No, no, no, no.
Doesn't make any sense.
That is just...
I don't understand this.
Remember when Bruce Cutler used to yell, this is garbage!
He would take the indictment and throw it in.
I think we had two juries that were fixed according to Sammy the Bull.
I mean, don't do that.
Now what you want to do, more importantly, is you want the jury to kind of like you, but also to respect you.
And just have them realize.
And the best way for them not to respect you is to abuse people.
To abuse the way you yell objections.
The way you approach the bench.
The way you smirk.
The way you...
How you look.
How you dress.
How you...
How you sit.
Remember, was it Brendan Sullivan who was a North's attorney?
He had these little peepers glasses.
Very, very nice.
Very quiet.
Very, very specific.
Don't do things that know the weaknesses of your case.
Focus on it.
It's two different things.
Being a prosecutor sometimes...
Remember, you've had all the time in the world to work on this.
You've had all the time in the world.
And you've got unlimited resources.
You can pick your witnesses ahead of time.
You can have your forensics guys, this and that, and your lead counsel.
And then you decide.
Defense lawyers, you're sprung.
You're a hit.
You don't get the chance to prepare for anything.
Prosecutors better know what they're doing.
We're going to talk more about this.
I want to say one more thing about our great sponsor, and I just want to say very quickly, because I love anybody, again, people who show faith in us, we show faith right back.
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Now, I'm going to talk to you about this more.
I hope we'll be able to do this.
Let me just reiterate what I'm trying to say.
Politics is one thing.
I don't care.
I don't care if it's Joe Biden on trial or Donald Trump or anybody for that matter.
They deserve.
Absolutely deserve due process.
Due process isn't perfect.
Due process isn't free from influence.
But it is a part of this.
A couple of things.
I also want you to go to Lionel Legal.
This is a brand new channel of mine.
And I'm doing double duty for you.
Because I want to explain this.
Here is the link.
Sign up.
Subscribe.
And I love your comments.
I love your insight.
And it gives me a gauge on what you think.
So Lionel Legal.
That's the name here on YouTube.
Now in addition, we remind you of a couple of things too.
Here is, I'm at Lionel Media on Twitter.
At Lionel Media.
I got some wild stuff there.
Wild!
And I do some commentary based upon people that I think, I'm surprised, I think would know better.
Now, Mrs. L is worrying, but also she is crafting her newsletter, and I want you to make sure you sign up for her newsletter right here.
Go to lynnswarriors.org.
There's a place, but this link right now allows you to sign up for her newsletter.
Okay?
It's a beaut.
Absolute beaut.
As is she, by the way.
And let me see one more thing.
Where is her?
Yes, her Twitter account, very important, is at lynns underscore warriors.
I'm going to put a link for you there.
Okay.
Now, let me ask you something.
Did you enjoy this?
Do you enjoy my...
I'm going to be coming back.
We're going to be talking more about this.
This is a chance to explain the beauty and the process and the kind of the tactics, procedure of trial work.
Because I'm telling you, I'm telling you, it's brilliant.
And when people describe, like when Joe Rogan describes MMA or something, you want to know, tell me the background of this.
Tell me the background.
And I have seen so many cases where lawyers just get up and they just feel like they gotta talk.
They just gotta talk.
You know, when you're having a, I don't want to say a fight, but when you're talking to your spouse or your Kids, you notice how you get down to business?
You were late.
I told you to come in at midnight at the latest.
You came in at one o 'clock.
You don't sit there and say, you know, when I was a kid, children, no, you're upset.
You get right to the point.
You're very, you're factually specific.
You get to the point.
You understand relevance.
Relevance is a wonderful...
Evidentiary, we'll talk about relevance too.
Relevance is the tendency and logic to prove or disprove a material issue in fact with a subsidiary issue of materiality, which means it has a bearing on the case.
So you've got to know how to work materiality versus relevance.
There's this unique way.
Hearsay, we'll talk about that.
Oh, hearsay is great.
Well, I heard him say.
Hearsay is the offer of evidence, an out-of-court statement that is offered.
To prove the truth of the matter asserted.
What does that mean?
Oh, it means everything.
90% of everything has a hearsay of everything you're going to be talking about.
Well, you know, he said, wait a minute, what?
Well, you know, Cohen said, well, Stormy Daniels said, wait a minute, why are you telling me what she said?
She's, why don't we call her?
Well, that's, well, I'm not offering her for the truth of the matter asserted.
Just the fact that she was said.
Kind of a rest just, I think?
Yeah, maybe.
It may sound like gibberish to you, but it's critical.
You can stop.
If you know evidence, you can stop.
Half of the time, the best evidence rule is never used.
You put copies and stuff.
Excuse me, where's the original?
What?
The original?
Oh my God.
There are these wonderful, wonderful things you can do if you know how this thing works.
And you understand what this jury is thinking.
And they're scared.
They're scared.
They don't know what to do.
They're not having a good time.
They don't like this.
They're taking time out of it.
Nobody wants to be on jury duty.
Nobody wants to be.
Remember, this is like dentists.
You go into a dentist's office, nobody here is happy.
Nobody.
Or a doctor, for that matter, or an emergency room.
So this is the mindset of jurors.
They're scared.
And this?
What do I say?
What do I do?
It's nerve-wracking.
So if you can come in and you can be that soul that, ah, did you ever have a doctor who makes you feel kind of happy?
Like, I'm glad he's here.
Hey, the doctor, like the doctor says, I'll meet you at the emergency room.
And your doctor shows up and, ah, I feel better.
Thank you.
Well, that's kind of what this is.
You know what I mean?
In a way.
We'll talk more about that because there is more to this than you will ever know.
Alright, my friends.
Thank you so much.
Have a great and glorious day.
We'll be back.
I hope you enjoyed it.
Hope you enjoyed today's discussion.
Please, please, please, please, please, please accept my thanks for this.
We'll see you tomorrow.
Same bad time, same bad time, same bad channel, bad station, 9 a.m. Eastern Time.
I've given you an hour and six minutes of my life because it means that much to me, okay?
Alright, my friends.
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Alright.
See you tomorrow.
Have a great day.
Don't forget my valedictory always.
The monkey's dead.
The show's over.
Sue ya.
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