Welcome to the podcast of the Lord Caesars for Friday, the 12th of December, 2025.
I'm joined by Nick and Bo and today we're going to be talking about the new containment project on the British right.
Yeah.
Which I'm sure is going to make us lots of friends.
We're going to talk about how the British media is reacting to the Nick Fuentes debacle.
And then we're going to talk about the further radicalization of Tom Swarbrick, which is my favourite subject.
And I watch his shows with bated breath until he's presented with here's a trans child.
And he's just like, it's like, here's an Afghan rapist.
It's like, you need to pay for him.
And he's like, do we?
It's like cognitive dissonance intensifies.
It's so good.
And so we'll get to that.
That'll be the nice Friday afternoon send-off for the weekend.
But we have an announcement, actually, which is on the 5th of January, something eyebrow-shaped is happening.
Is that right?
It is.
Apparently, you're starting a breakfast show, Bo.
Yeah, it's going to be Breakfast with Bo.
The Breakfast with Bo show.
That's right.
It's going to start.
We're going to have a breakfast show from 8am to 9 a.m. every day, daily, with me.
And yeah, I'm just going to go through the news that morning, you know, like looking at the papers or the digital papers sort of thing.
Every morning, just a one-hour sort of rundown, set you up for the day.
Listen to it if you haven't got time in the mornings.
These are the things that they're going to be freaking out about today, so tune in, be aware.
I love that.
The most bass breakfast show ever.
Yes.
The most sort of mild format ever just subverted.
Brilliant.
But that'll be streaming on the website and on YouTube, I believe.
And people are like, why aren't you streaming on YouTube?
And the answer is, it killed the algorithm, to be honest.
So it was better to just stop.
So you've got to come back to the website.
Anyway.
Now it's good again.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's fine now that we've stopped the algorithm.
It's like, okay, I like you again.
It's like, okay.
I don't understand YouTube.
No one understands YouTube.
They do things for esoteric reasons.
It's literally the my goals are beyond your comprehension.
But anyway, right, let's begin.
Okay, apparently we'll start with me.
So I'm calling this working title the new containment project or the alternative title, what is the point of unheard and a spectator.
Basically, my GB News contract finally expired this week.
So I was like, how can I stop myself getting any work in future with Sapa Marshall, who runs basically everything?
But I'm not going to blame Sapa for any of this.
He's just the backer behind a lot of these things.
I'm just going to question what is the sort of editorial stance of these things and what's the point of them.
So it started when, in my mind, when Freddie Sayers posted, delighted to welcome the Spectators, latest contributor for our Bumper Christmas edition out tomorrow.
And you look at some of the names he's got, and it's quite bonkers.
Her Majesty the Queen.
Got the Queen in there.
Great.
I think it's the actual, isn't it the actual, is it, is it the late, late, late?
I don't know, actually.
I should have checked this.
Because when I hear the Queen, that's how I think.
Yeah, yeah.
Because isn't Camilla the Queen consort?
Sometimes she's just called the Queen, isn't she?
So we need to check that.
Our producers can check that while we.
Explain this to me.
Queen Elizabeth II has got content from beyond the grave, like Elvis.
Well, that does happen to me.
AI reanimation, right?
Like AI necromancy.
Spectator.
I might check this, actually, but we'll try and find out.
But they say from the queen to Bonnie Blue, Spectators Christmas Edition.
So, I mean, pretty extraordinary.
So look at some of the other people they've got.
Peter Thiel, fairly standard.
I'm sure the ghost of Queen Elizabeth is like, oh, very good.
They say Her Majesty the Queen.
I'm always like, yeah, I don't know.
So they've got Bonnie Blue, which is bizarre.
They've got Matthew McConaughey, because we want to hear his views on...
Apparently he is a Conservative, so that's something.
At least they have a conservative in their paper.
It's a strange mix.
I'm just trying to figure out why you would have Bonnie Blue in there.
And anyway, it got me thinking about these publications in general.
Well, I thought we'd have a look at the Bonnie Blue articles.
This is, I stand with Nigel Farage.
And there's some good lines in there.
She says, my family aren't religious.
I'm like, hang on a second.
No shit.
Yeah, no, they encouraged her to become a prostitute.
So I think we could have gone.
Aren't they literally her managers?
They're not really religious.
Like, yeah, we got that, Bonnie.
I mean, they could be satanic.
Anyway.
Is this an attack on reform?
Good question.
Because unironically, like, if you're reform, everything's going great.
You're going up in the polls.
And someone's like, by the way, you've been endorsed.
Oh, yeah, who by now?
The world's most voracious prostitute.
Yeah, or what I'm more worried about, it's this.
Do I want that endorsement?
I'm worried.
I think it's the insanely broad church of like the Lady Magga.
Oh, who have we got on board?
You know, oh, it's Bonnie Blue.
Like, Farage brings her out at the next conference.
Bonnie, what's your take on inheritance tax?
Which she does make.
What percentage of the electorate are they expecting this to swing for Farage?
She might just be having a view.
The question, my question is.
Yeah, sure, but why is the spectator hosting it?
She's a lefty.
She's playing 4D chess.
She's trying to undermine reform.
Maybe, yeah.
She's paid by Soros.
In her interview with Andrew Tate, she was like, I'm the ideal feminist.
I'm the most emancipated.
I'm doing the most.
Tate said that to her.
No, no, no.
She said that to Tate.
And so it's like, yeah, so great.
You've got the most feminist feminist ever, and she just happens to be the world's probably of all time, the greatest prostitute that's ever lived.
I disagree with the feminist premise because she really hates women.
Like, she attacks women constantly.
She's like, if you're not doing it for your bloke, I'm just going to do it.
It's not my fault.
You're lazy.
If you're a lazy slob, not my fault.
That's like her main point.
So she hates women.
So there's some great bangers in here.
My family aren't really.
Sorry.
Can we just pause on that for a minute?
Have you not heard her say that?
She always says that.
That's really funny.
She's like, you're not doing what your job.
I'm going to do it.
That's why they're coming to me.
Yeah, that's what she always says.
Okay, it's selling it to me.
Yeah, I mean, that's the one positive.
She hates women.
It's the kind of underlying threat to all other women.
Like, you know, Bonnie Blue.
If you don't do it Yeah, yeah, yeah Yeah.
Bonnie Blue will turn up.
Yeah, it's the scare story for women.
She's Body Blue three times in the mirror.
She's shagging your boyfriend.
She's the Kaiser Soze of not doing marital duty.
So she's...
I don't know how we hear from her.
I can't...
You follow her on Twitter or something?
I don't know.
I just read the Spectator.
I read the Spectator.
My family aren't religious.
So she said that one.
My other favourite in there was she was talking about the royal family.
She said, Andrew's a bit of a lad.
Andrew.
Andrew seems a bit of a lad.
Former Prince Sandra.
I don't know what he's called now.
Seems a bit of a lad.
Baton or something.
Yeah, she says somewhere in there, Andrew's a bit of a lad.
Oh, Callum's there.
She said, Andrew's a bit of a lad.
But she had some fair points.
She said, I'm not knowledgeable about politics.
Fair.
But I do know the UK is very messed up.
Hard to argue with.
She could be on Lotus Seed.
And she said, you shouldn't have to pay any inheritance tax as you've been taxed on that money already.
That's bad.
I like that.
Yeah, I do agree with that, but that's the general English opinion.
Yes.
The average Englishman has that opinion.
I know.
What bothered me, or she had some personal experience with it, with her dad dying, I think.
But what bothered me the most was she said that she's, this is in The Spectator.
She goes, I'd like to be thought of as a woman who changed sex work.
I've made it more accessible.
Okay.
So that is what the spectator is ultimately promoting.
And you go, that's pretty weird.
The conservative case for being a whore.
Yes.
That's a good video title, actually.
We should use that one.
And you go, okay, why is this happening?
Basically, basically.
This is Michael Gove.
And I look into it and go, all Queen Street Media, which is Paul Marshall, to be fair.
But I doubt he knows what's going on on the ground.
He's a very high net worth individual.
He owns and operates the Spectator and Unheard.
So you go, okay, who actually runs them, though?
Well, of course, it's Freddie Sayers.
And Freddie.
Isn't Gove the editor?
Gove's now editor of the Spectator, but Sayers is the publisher and he's the sort of CEO.
So it says, as he says in this, he says, as publisher, I can't remember where it is, but I've got it written down.
Has he got stock in OnlyFans?
Here we go.
No, she's banned from OnlyFans.
Is she?
Yeah.
Yeah, she is.
Yeah, yeah.
OnlyFans and the country of Bali.
Didn't she get arrested in Indonesia or something?
Is Bali a country or a city?
Does it say that?
It's a province in Indonesia.
Yeah, exactly.
I was just sat there going, come on, arrest 30 years in jail.
30 years ago.
Yeah, she's getting deported instead.
Yeah, getting deported, sending her back.
Annoying.
The one deportation we didn't want.
So Freddie Sayers says, as publisher of The Spectator and CEO of the group company, I will be responsible for overall strategy and ensuring that the various moving parts work well together.
So I think we know who is responsible.
He's saying it right there.
My first red flag about Mr. Sayers was when he had this interview with Reno Camus.
And it was so pathetic that all the comments were attacking him, even if they liked him.
Like, I normally like Freddy, but this was pathetic.
Because it was such a Piers Morgan, like, oh, you're even evil and bad then.
Instead of like an intellectual discussion of, you know, this guy's an intellectual.
He's a great writer.
Yes, he's behind the great replacement, but why not ask him what he means?
But it was the most of like, it was like a special intro saying why he's bad.
And afterwards, yeah, we have to share these things, but obviously I don't agree.
You know, one of those really pathetic things.
Poisoning the world for a string of attempted gutches.
Actually, Camus retweeted me here.
I just said he kept trying to call Camus racist and blame him for violence.
99% of the comments are savaging him for this approach, siding with Camus.
It's exactly the same as the Piers Morgan, Nick Fuentes stuff, right?
Where it's like, oh, we, you know, this, this guy's name, he's, you know, he's popular, he's caused a lot of stir.
I now have to talk to him, but I'm going to caveat it on the side with how bad I am.
And then I'm going to do a podcast, Copy and Seeing about it afterwards.
Yeah, but there's a key difference.
Two things.
One, Camus's not Fuentes.
He's a Zionist for one, and he's a sort of considered intellectual.
He's not like a shock dog who does edgy humour.
And Unheard are meant to be more sophisticated and more conservative or whatever than Piers Morgan.
They're not like tabloid.
They're supposed to be, but says went full Morgan.
The host is so weak, afraid to acknowledge the truth.
Oh dear, Freddie Sayers went full Kathy Newman on this one.
And there's just hundreds of comments like that.
They're basically all like that.
If you look, I couldn't find a single positive one for him.
So that was a red flag for me.
Unheard also published this, which I'm sure you saw.
Is reform going too Christian?
Lotus Eaters get a mention in this.
This is from Samuel Rubenstein.
Yeah, you get a brief mention as a sort of Connor Lotus Eaters quasi-bad sort of it's like a, it's like a passing.
You know, these guys are sort of Connor's too Christian bit, about Connor saying he's from the reactionary writer called himself, and blah, blah.
Anyway, here you go, Lotus Eaters, affiliate of Lotus Eaters podcast.
So you get a lot of mention, but but basically they conclude saying ultimately, it would not be in Reform's interest to become or to be seen as a Christian party.
So it's a very clear like Anti-Christian piece they talk about.
Like Christians are okay if they basically are incredibly moderate and non-political.
Are they worried that Moffin Alley isn't going to join them eventually?
Yeah, it was such a, it was a strange piece.
I mean, this is, this is the, this is his view, and you can say okay, Paul's strange thing is Paul Marshall is an evangelical Christian and you could say well okay, not all the articles are going to have to represent him and that would be a lack of integrity anyway and a lack of balance.
Fine, or you could say he, he's perhaps not one of these Christians Who wants Christian nationalism.
Perhaps he's sort of very moderate politically.
But when you start to build the picture, it gets quite strange to me.
So, Spectator has Bonnie Blue.
Just a quick thing as well.
James Orr is a professor of philosophy and theology.
College of Cambridge, yeah.
So, like, and a Christian.
So, the fact that he would be a Christian in reform, not terribly shocking.
I know, and I joke with James about this.
We were talking about Tolkien, and I said, I'll be happy when I see he said reform of the party of the Shire.
I said, I'll be happy when I see the article, Has Reform Gone Too Tolkien?
That's when I'll be happy because it's so ridiculous.
Are they too Christian?
And actually, reform are.
Are you very Christian?
What are you talking about?
They just launched a thing yesterday, actually, a Christian fellowship thing.
They did a thing in a church.
So, I wonder if they are going more Christian with Danny Krueger and James Orr.
But that would be a good thing, is my take.
Are reformed too Christian?
We now go to Mohammed Zia Youssef for further commentary.
I think he's going to convert.
I just came up with that yesterday.
I just read that up.
Christian country.
Yes.
God's sake.
I know.
But you've got to look at it and say, hang on, these are sort of alleged conservative publications.
Yes to Bonnie Blue, no to reform being Christian.
This is what we know.
He wrote it, Samuel Rubenstein.
Yeah.
And then Rakib Essan, who you may know, he says, from politics to culture, the trajectory of England will be increasingly shaped by Islamic social conservatism.
Oh, brilliant.
So this is the unheard.
So we just said that reform shouldn't be Christian.
Are Muslims Britain's future?
Yeah.
Cheers on her.
So you start to build quite a strange picture.
Unturd more like.
Very snappy.
Just say it.
Yeah, some people don't realize that it's heard.
Some people think it's heard, but it's just a pun.
But it's actually like the herd bow because they don't follow the herd, man.
They just don't care.
Clever.
They're just total mavericks.
Yeah.
And this article is a kind of, if you've read Welbeck's submission, it's kind of that vibe.
It's like selling the slick middle-class professional Muslim future.
Here's a sample quote: While the ever-growing British Muslim population has been caricatured by some as an undereducated and welfare-dependent monolith, one which has colonelised Britain's social housing stock, the reality is somewhat different.
In truth, it's a relatively useful population, one defined by its upward social mobility and which is increasingly assertive across national life.
Well, that latter's true, isn't it?
But he concludes: whatever way you look at it, Britain is changing and not necessarily in a direction Rupert Lowe will welcome.
So it's basically, we're going Muslim.
Sorry, Rupert.
And this is in Unheard.
Don't worry about the false child marriages, the FGM, the only professionals.
The only killings, the terrorism.
Don't worry about any of that.
Even if they were all a bunch of Islamic choir boys, don't care.
Foreign religion, get out.
Yeah.
And who wrote this?
This was Rakhi Ibesan.
Right, well.
And it was in Unheard.
So I find this quite strange.
And Connor responded to this because he felt somehow they were not too pro-Connie.
He says, the blowpiece reveals a lot about Unheard's lightly, sorry, tightly controlled output.
So I heard that Freddie Sayers, head of editorial at both Spectator and Unheard, was who made the call to ban the release of my debate with Michael Gov and Catherine Burbelsing.
That's the other thing.
They're stating for their position then.
Yeah, yeah, that's the other thing.
So if you start to build a picture, it's like anti-Rono Camus, can't release a debate where Connor presumably smokes them, can put an article out saying the future is Islamic, except your new Islamic overlord, but reform shouldn't be Christian.
Also Bonnie Blue, right?
also bonnie blue also by the way the average because the problem with bonnie blue really is that she is english right If this was some foreign woman who was a rampant oil, okay, well that reflects badly on your community, right?
But what Bonnie Blue does, unfortunately, is a direct reflection of English womanhood at the moment.
And so the spectator are like, yeah, hey, Bonnie Blue, she votes reform.
Who will reform?
Well, the kind of English reactionary party.
And it's just like, goddammit, man.
Yeah.
And the incoherence.
It's constant sabotage.
That's the thing.
It's constant sabotage of the dignity of our position.
Yeah, aversion.
Just real quick to say, because I'm vaguely aware of Connor and Michael Gofing.
Is it just, can we only assume that Connor smoked him, made him look ridiculous?
Evidently.
And so they're just like, well, we're just not putting it out.
Well, they'd put it out.
Is that what reverse?
Certainly one, or certainly shared things that are uncomfortable.
And if Sayers has made the call, it will be that it's, yeah, it's too uncomfortable.
It's someone on the right winning a debate.
It's almost right.
Or saying things they don't want to be out there, which is the same thing, practically.
Yeah, right.
Either he said something uncomfortable or he won, or both.
I say both, probably.
Apparently, even Catherine agreed with him on a lot of points.
Yeah, so Connor goes on.
So you can observe the Islamification of Britain, but you can't oppose or call to reverse it at Unheard, which is absolutely true from those two articles, and you can't have your debate released.
He says a bit lower down, Ergo, the only acceptable position at Unheard is to celebrate the rise of Islam in Britain so long as it's contained within the confines of liberal pluralism.
And that's the key because having Bonnie Blue celebrated by the spectator, but also celebrating Islam is completely incoherent.
It's worse than your party, but it makes sense within the vague liberal mush that they're selling.
So Connor goes on.
The key, it's a Connor length piece.
So we'll get to the crux, which is at the end, he said, there's something deeply morally miscalibrated about Unheard's editorial stance.
It's self-absorbed and cannot sustain its contradictions.
Exactly.
It isn't good for the country, and it certainly doesn't reflect the mood of the right, which is very much my point as well.
They want to push Bonnie Blue, but also Islam, which is, as I say, completely incoherent.
They don't like Christians, except perhaps the most mild ones that don't talk about Christianity.
Renault Camus is icky, but they can't actually counter his arguments in a way that convinces even their own audience.
They won't release the Connor debate, presumably because that will also expose the weakness of their arguments.
So, of course, not all articles across Spectator and Unheard have to be the exact same of the same mind, but my overall impression is that they're essentially promoting a kind of vapid liberalism that will only further the decline of Britain.
I love that you can feel on both sides of the platform on which they stand that it falling in, like in video game.
You know, it's like the platform's going narrower and narrower and narrower.
And they're like, oh, yeah, no, this is.
And it's like, well, at some point, that middle pillar is going to fall, and you're going to have to accept that either you are completely for leftism and the Islamic takeover, the Bonnie Blueization of women more broadly, or you can come and join the far right.
I mean, what is their position?
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Because the reason I mentioned support Marshall is he's a Christian, right?
There's nothing Christian about this.
There's nothing Christian about Reformer 2 Christian.
Here's Bonnie Blue, and Islam's the Future.
I'm like, right.
This is not Christian.
It's not conservative.
Who is the target audience?
Yeah, right.
I think it's just, is it just Michael Gobe himself?
It's some sort of boomer.
I hate to say boomer, but because some of my fans are boomers, but it's a great, great people.
But it's a sort of we love our boomers, folks.
Who is it?
It's kind of boomer.
I'm tempted to say Toby, but it's a kind of boomer-conservative small C classical liberal person.
Yeah, it's the kind of like the sort of 1990, 1990s conservative consensus, right?
Where it's like, oh, actually, we can all just live happily and get along.
And it's like, okay, that worked when we had 95% homogenous demographics, right?
Because most people just didn't do these things.
And so you had like these weird, like, fringe things.
You're like, oh, wow, that's a weird fringe thing.
Now I'm going back to my completely homogenous English village to live a normal, conservative English life.
It's like, okay, that's great.
You can have the weird side, you know, freak show at the margins.
But that's not the margins now.
Right, right.
That's a good point.
Yeah, and it's so strange they want to promote that.
It's the Piers Morgan.
You haven't been middle-aid.
It's like Bonnie Blue is less offensive to them than Connor Tomlinson.
Literally, Bonnie Blue is solving the problem for Piers Morgan, right?
Because she's going around deflowering loads of young incels.
So Bonnie Blue is the solution to the most probably Asian, don't they, for some reason?
They do, but as far as Piers Morgan's concerned, she's saving the West.
Yeah.
This is really the central divide is like social conservatism and morality, basic morality, Christian morality.
And that's where these people are like, no, absolutely not.
Everything they do is an attack on Christian morality.
That's why it's so strange that a Christian is ultimately behind it.
Obviously, as I say, not editorially, but backing it financially.
Same with Piers Morgan, though.
He's like, I'm a Catholic.
Yeah, I've gotten laid because I'm not married.
Yeah, I know.
Catholic.
Yeah, and they just find that they hate the Connor sort of moralism, but that is the young people are going because they've had enough of Bonnie.
Bonnie Blue, you can't really go much further than that.
You've reached the apotheosis of the liberal project with Bonnie Blue.
Literally.
Now it's going the other way.
That's literally how she describes herself.
like this extreme libertinism.
I can totally see where the Zoomers...
I've seen people call them the young fogies.
And I actually think it's a really charming epithet.
You know, it's like, oh, you're just young fogies who want to be morally responsible and don't feel disgusted about yourselves because of the things that you've done, like having sex with Bonnie Blue or something.
And it's like, well, yeah, I can completely understand why they feel that way, actually.
There's a new young fogies because young fogies was the thing when we were younger, right?
But they're the new young fogies who are far more based than the old young fog who were just sort of Tories.
Yeah, it's yeah, I find it all quite strange.
And there was one other thing I was going to say, it's escaped me, but it's something to do with the morality of it.
Anyway, yeah, I don't know who this is for.
Oh, yeah, I was going to say, to be fair to liberals, someone like my friend Andrew Duel would say, well, there's a difference between liberalism and license.
But the problem is, even the kind of liberalism he espouses says, as long as you don't encroach upon anyone else.
And if you watch Julia Hartley Brewer, who's sort of in this kind of vague milieu, interview Bonnie Blue, she was absolutely checkmated because Bonnie Blue said, Well, I'm not hurting anyone.
And it's consensual.
And Julia went, oh, I agree with that.
And so she had nothing.
Because that's literally.
And this is why Bonnie Blue's I'm the ultimate feminist.
It's like, yeah, kind of, actually.
Yeah.
This is ultimately where feminism gets to.
Whereas what Unheard and Spectator can't take is as a younger generation said, actually, no, there's such a thing called morals.
Morals are back.
Christianity's back.
And there's certain things we shouldn't do.
There's such a thing as social responsibility, restraint, abstinence.
There's all these things.
And they're back, so it's off.
Bonnie Blue is a metaphysical attack on the country.
That's basically what the younger.
Now this is the antidote is coming in, and it's kind of et al.
I think, like, the spectator and unheard are just containment projects, really.
And as for what?
Containing what?
Yeah, the old paradigm.
Yeah, exactly.
Of that you can't like or be proud of your own history or heritage or nation, all those things, all those things.
Or not being a rampant slag.
Even that.
You have to be totally socially liberal, totally pro-immigration, etc., etc.
And not Christian, which is lame and nicky.
Just accept.
You can't be a Muslim.
Just accept.
As long as you're an upwardly professional Muslim.
It's all nonsense.
There you go.
Frankie Texan says, religion is the glue that holds society together.
That is, but one of the reasons that Christianity is under attack.
You know what?
Yes, but it's.
I don't know, man.
Like, I don't feel that for a long time.
I mean, we had a society, but it wasn't held together by religion.
It was held together by a certain series of norms.
And now the norms themselves.
I'm not saying they weren't inherited.
Norms came for Christianity.
Yeah, I'm not saying they weren't inherited from religion, but the norms themselves are now the things under attack, you know.
So I think it's inevitable we go back to Christianity, frankly.
Oh, good.
I didn't even have to make the case.
It's probably just, why not?
It's like that or Bonnie Blue in the Islamic paradise.
Yep, those are your choices.
I mean, and she literally sounds like she's come from the Islamic paradise as well.
Right, right.
You can have it on earth now.
Yeah, exactly.
Amazing.
Anyway, let's move on.
Okay, we're going to talk all about now the Fuentes Furo.
We're going to dive right in to it.
I mean, Harry touched on it the other day, but not the full shebang.
So we're going to dive in.
I didn't know this was an option or I would have totally picked this, but it's a great topic.
Yeah, Nick is our Nick Fuentes correspondent.
Well, I just did an hour on my channel.
Not that I'd ever promote my own channel on here, Nick Dixon, but many people are loving it.
That's all I'm saying.
But not that many compared to Lotus Eaters.
But after you've watched Lotus Eaters, check that out.
Nick Dixon.
Yeah, yeah.
But after you've watched Lotus Eaters.
Okay, yeah, of course.
So, Piers Morgan allowed Mr. Fuentes to have a platform on his show.
Actually, this is probably the uh, I think one of the most important, interesting points, sort of the broader point, the meta point, is that even the reaction to it, and afterwards, recently, uh, just a day or two ago, Piers Morgan did another hour-long show talking about the reaction to it all.
Coping and seeing.
And I think the most important, yeah, hoping and seeing.
Welcome to Copen C with Piers Morgan.
I think one of the most interesting points is that nearly everyone was in complete agreement that there was nothing wrong with platforming Fuentes, actually.
Yeah, that's interesting.
And that is a change, isn't it?
Yeah, because even just a few years ago, they would have been probably would have been in broad agreement that Piers had done something terribly wrong by even talking to him.
And now it was almost unanimous that it was the right, it's like the right thing to do.
So that's interesting to me.
What's more, many people said Nick won.
I just read a piece by Kathleen Star.
He won.
Just to contradict my previous piece, In Unheard, it was actually decent.
And she was saying, Yeah, Nick Frendez totally won this.
And underneath Danny Fungenstein's appliance, they're going, How dare you say this?
He's the only one going, He didn't win.
And she's like, Sorry, Danny, he won.
I'm just saying.
So the thing is, I love to have a conversation with someone where there's no gotchas and you're just having a conversation.
But whenever it is adversarial and it's a debate, I don't really like that.
But you inevitably then start talking about who won then.
Right?
Who scored the most points?
I don't like the format, but that's what it is.
If you're going to go down that route and talk about that and be like that, Fuentes totally won.
He totally won.
Like easily.
He dominated it because.
Because he owned it.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
So there's at least, I think, four or five times Morgan goes for a gotcha moment, and Nick either just owns it or not even that, but genuinely answers it properly.
And Piers Morgan just moves on.
There's no retort.
Yeah, there is no retort.
He doesn't even try it.
It's just like, all right, next thing.
So you lost that point.
Yeah.
That's a point.
If we're doing a point scoring exercise here, you lost that point.
Yeah.
Like the bit about the women being equal to men under the eyes of God, but not having the same legal rights is not a contradiction.
And Piers Morgan just goes, you say this, and Nick's just laughing at him and then he moves on.
Exactly.
It was also understood for hundreds of years as just the norm.
It's not that weird.
Yeah, it's completely consistent.
Have you heard my idea to do a gotcha of him, gotcha interview from the right?
So apparently, what, you're against the death penalty?
What's that about?
You still stand by that?
And then I say, like, you like Game of Thrones better than Lord of the Rings?
What's that all about?
And I just keep doing all these clips.
He's just done another clip with Richard Spencer saying he wants to live in a diverse city.
I'm like, what's that all about?
Do you stand by that?
Nick Fuente's good kid, bit of a pinko for me.
A bit of a lefty.
I can't do that today, just to be.
I think that's the most obnoxious position you can say.
Good kid, bit far left.
I'm just like, wait for the replies.
See, I don't actually watch his streams because I don't watch anything.
Pro-Stalin.
Yeah, pro-Stalin as well.
But I haven't seen those clips going around.
They are weird left-wing clips.
Why does he say those?
Partly, I think he gets bored a bit like some of our friends mentioning no names, academic agents, get bored of like, they say they take up certain positions.
I'm sure that's not the reason.
I'm sure it's sincere.
Oh, I think it might be a lot of the reason.
But, you know, he's saying he actually likes the diversity he's in with Spencer.
Game of Thrones, he just does like it better than Lord of the Rings.
Death penalty, he says he is against having reflected on it more.
And so these are just his views.
Stalin, I don't know what that's about.
Just another.
I was literally this close to stop calling him gay.
And then you just tell me all of this.
He's not gay, he's just on the left.
It doesn't matter.
He's far left.
Doesn't matter.
I'm going to call him gay and can continue to call him gay until he's bullied to my position on the death penalty.
What will the Gorephers do?
What will the Gorepers do when they see this?
They'll have to go, we're attacking their boy for being too left.
No, no, we're saying he's a good kid, did a great job on Piers Morgan, just needs to iron out some of these left-wing.
Oh, just to quickly say, I mean, I do agree with most, a lot of what Nick says, but not everything he says.
He's got a number of opinions.
I'm like, I just don't agree with that.
But I do agree with quite a lot of what he says.
Give us an example then of what I don't like.
Well, what you do agree with.
That you celebrate Stalin's birthday.
Well, most of the stuff about immigration.
Oh, yeah.
He wants to live in a diverse city.
Well, um, but...
What's going on there?
I don't know.
If you watch enough Nick Fuentes, you'll find clips that do contradict a bit.
Or, like any normal person, he's changed his mind a bit over the years.
Right, okay, fair enough.
I actually haven't watched a great deal of Nick Fuentes.
Well, I've watched, I don't know, probably something in the order of six or ten hours worth of Fuentes content in my life, which is a fair bit, but it's not loads, is it?
I don't watch, far from watch him all the time, but I've watched a fair bit.
I only see him.
Most of the time, he seems to me really reasonable.
Okay.
But he's got a couple of things I don't agree with.
You know, like you said, Hitler was cool.
I don't agree with that.
He's extremely smart.
He has a lot of well-thought-through positions, very detailed if you do watch it.
What he'll do is at the end, the chats will put in annoying quotes, annoying questions, and he'll say, he'll go off on them.
That's when a lot of the viral clips come from.
But in between, he'll do a long disquisition on why Pat Buchanan was right, so-and-so.
It's extremely detailed.
This is why when people say, like, Laura Pair did an article saying he needs to read a book, I'm like, that's the worst possible attack on Fuentes.
He hasn't read books and isn't smart because it's just not true.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
He seems to be reasonably knowledgeable for a, well, quite knowledgeable for a 27-year-old.
Stupidly knowledgeable.
He's got sort of total recall and he can reel off extraordinary amounts of information straight to camera for three hours, which, as Tucker said, is extraordinary skill.
And Tucker said he's even more talented than me.
Honestly, I was surprised that he didn't have the black crime statistics in the Piers Morgan interview, though.
That was a genuine shock.
I was like, I've got those memorised.
Why don't you have those memorised?
It's that thing of having...
You still won that bit, though, because that was Pierce's worst bit, the third capita bit.
It's the exercise of getting a clip and just trying to do a gotcha moment.
I mean, that's hackneyed.
That's sort of hack territory.
That's old hat.
To be fair.
And Nick is great at getting out of that.
And with escaping that.
He's done loads of those.
He's like, you're not doing anything new with this.
That's what he does, right?
The gotcha style interview on Nick has been done multiple times.
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, like on the history side, I mean, out of the four main protagonists of World War II, Franklin Dano Roosevelt, Switzerland Churchill, Adolf Sticklegruber and Yaakov Yugoschili, like all four of those people were very, very callous and wrong-headed, in my opinion, all four of them.
But of the four, the most sort of unsettling character, I would say, is Yugoschili is Stalin.
But, I mean.
That doesn't make Hitler a good guy.
Right, exactly.
It doesn't make Hitler cool.
That's my opinion.
Well, that's why we're a bit different.
I mean, you know, my generation, I say this, my grandfather's both fought in World War II.
I could speak to them about it.
Fuentes born in 1980.
All right, it was the Germans.
The point still stands.
The point is, Fuentes born in 1998.
He's a product very much of the 21st century.
They're not going to have the same connection with it.
And you can't really expect them to.
And they've been rowbeaten so much.
He lays it all out in a clip.
There's a clip where he says, it's not that I think the painter is cool for his cruelty or bigotry or all that.
It's the montage clips, the edits, which present...
He's saying because...
I got radicalised by edits on YouTube.
I know, but the sole reason he says it's because he actually then goes into a really good rant where he says, it's about being unapologetic because we've been told our whole lives we're evil.
You basically got this younger generation, you're like, you're evil.
At school, they're told they're evil because they're white.
At university, they're told the same.
Then they go for a job, you can't have it because you're white.
But by the way, you've still got white privilege.
What's that?
You can't afford a house, especially in this country.
What's that?
relationships are broken down and it's like there's only two you've got nothing left to lose and And by the way, your numbers are massively reducing across Europe and the Anglosphere.
So it's like, what are your choices?
Cower in the corner and do a land acknowledgement, which some do, or you say, oh, pures.
And that's Fuentes.
And that is a powerful That's just a powerful point Just a quick thing as well.
Like, the Nazis, obviously evil.
Hitler, obviously evil.
But they employ Hugo Boss to make their uniforms for a reason, right?
Like, you know, like, I'm just saying.
I'm just saying he's cool.
No, I'm just saying they had swag, right?
They dressed in a particular way, right?
Yeah, well, kind of.
They dressed in a particular way to give a particular impression.
And when you are sufficiently removed from historical events, like I love the Assyrian Empire, man, I think it looks amazing.
I think they had total swag.
They created pillars of skulls.
Like, I don't want to hang out with them, but they look badass, you know what I mean?
And that's the same thing for the Nazis.
They look badass.
And if you're sufficiently removed from the events of it, where you're just like, well, it's just ancient history to me, I can see why Nick Frontier's like, well, they were cool.
It's like, yeah, I guess.
They had drip.
Yeah, exactly, right?
Combined with it being the ultimate taboo, the business of taboo busting, because those taboos haven't helped you and they seem to be the thing holding you down.
Exactly, yeah.
The point beyond Nazi drip is honest, didn't they?
Everyone had drip.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, yeah, there's loads of loads of people from history which I think had a cool look who were actually terrible.
Loads of people and peoples and civilizations.
But anyway, but yeah, the point: for how many generations will be browbeaten into silence by the mid-century German experiment?
And that's the question.
That's a valid point, isn't it?
That is the question.
How long will it be until the Nazis just become a historical event?
And the answer is this Gen Z, apparently.
Apparently, yeah.
Because I'm technically millennials, so we're the last generation of still very concerned with it.
And like I say, knew my grandfathers is fought in it.
They're the first generation Gen Z who's like, what's this about?
You know what's weird?
Is that when I was young, we weren't like overtly propagandized against the Nazis.
Obviously, like they were bad.
They were the villains in World War II, right?
Because they're the people we're fighting.
When you're in school, you're learning about, all right, it's the Germans and the British and the Americans and whoever.
And it's just like, okay, yeah, they're the bad guys, but it's not here's constantly drummed into you.
It was just, well, they're not us, so obviously they're the enemy.
And so, you know, carry on about your days.
Yeah, because we still weren't hated for just being English.
Yeah.
We were confident in our that we were English when we were good.
They were bad, but we weren't also bad.
Now, where we were now, of course, we get called, and it's an obvious point, but far-right and Nazis by our government and by because that means you're the enemy.
But we weren't the enemies still then when we grew.
That's right, yeah.
I seem to recall we were the antagonists of the Nazis in the war.
I know, I seem to recall we thought.
We made war on them, did you?
Somewhere that we became the Nazis.
We were in our mid-40s.
Ever so slightly younger, aren't you?
I'm slightly younger, yeah.
But we're in our early mid-40s, right?
And when we were kids, this is a Zen podcast.
You could make a joke about it, like Basil, like Basil Fulton.
They were making jokes about Nazis all the time.
Right, yeah.
Or the producers.
Mel Brooks.
Gene Wilder in the producers.
You could joke about Hitler and the Holocaust.
They were figures of fun because we won and they lost.
Right.
You weren't terrified of a narrative and you could ridicule it openly.
Apparently, you can't do that now because one bit in it, when Piers Morgan brings out the Holocaust and Nick immediately goes, what, too soon?
Yeah.
I laughed out loud.
I laughed out loud.
But it's also the correct question, right?
Is it too soon?
And I guess the answer is yes, because it's still in living memory.
Just about.
Just about.
The answer is it's too soon for Piers and Danny, but not too soon for Nick.
Well, exactly.
And we're maybe a little bit in the middle going.
The boomers were heavily propagandized when they were young, remember?
Because they lived in the shadow of this great war.
So their parents had lived through it.
And so for the boomers, this is literally like, you know, you going like, you know, I think that Satan's a pretty cool guy when you go to church.
Obviously, the Christians are like, what are you talking about?
This is the way that they view the entire, like, moral fabric of the universe.
So, for them...
Just to be fair to the boomers, because I get boomers commenting on my things going, hey, it's not all boomers.
It's gross.
It's not even the boomers.
If you talk to a normal boomer, like your parents or something, it's more the boomer sort of, I don't want to say truth regime, but the media boomer sphere.
narrative yeah the narrative that piers has to do this It's pole-faced nonsense.
An average person is like, yeah, it's a funny joke, whatever.
They're not that bothered.
I think was probably the most healthiest view is the view that's presented in the film Dickie Attenborough's A Bridge Too Far, where the Nazis are the enemy.
Just unequivocally the enemy.
The baddies.
They're the people we're fighting.
Yeah.
But they're not like a cartoonish monster, though.
Right?
Yeah.
And you can even, for the individual, the individual Wehrmacht soldier, you can actually have respect for him even for the sacrifice he made.
A lot of them are just 18-year-old kids that were conscripted, just like we were.
Very much into it.
From a country that's incredibly similar to yours.
Really?
And that guy, yeah, he's the reflection of you.
You see it in those war movies where they come up really close to each other and they're like, not even sure they want to kill each other.
It gets a bit weird.
Because that's how it would be.
Just because there's one nutter who's decided that this, it's not the average soldier.
Or in the producers, where it's just you can openly ridicule it without any real baggage.
Surely that's more healthy.
You can't talk about it.
You cannot joke about it.
That was part of the Gen X free speech culture that you're talking about as well.
Which is now gone backwards.
As I always say, we can't have brass eye now.
We can't have those things.
But your point about we weren't under attack, that's the thing, right?
Because what Nick is really yearning for is an unapologetically Western European nation to say, no, we're great, actually.
We, this Western European nation is great.
And back in our day, well, if we're living after the victory over the Nazis, yeah, Britain helped defeat the Nazis.
We're great.
You know, we were allowed to be unapologetically proud of ourselves for doing this.
And so there was no worry about, oh, are they going to pick up Nazi ideology?
What do you mean?
Why would I pick up Nazi ideology?
I have my own ideology that we're amazing.
We spent the welfare for the empire and hundreds of thousands of our lives to defeat that.
Exactly.
Why do I need to adopt his ideology?
But now that's been beaten out of us and we're not allowed to be unapologetically proud of ourselves.
It's like, okay, well, you might pick up this Nazi ideology as a way of essentially reclaiming that pride.
It's been hijacked by leftism because there was nothing lefty about Churchill.
And it went along with English pride.
it went along with lots of old school attitudes but now it's somehow yeah that's all flip i mean I mean, they were dropping bombs on our cities and houses.
It's very the other thing.
This is more controversial.
The other thing is it's been taken away from us.
If you're speaking to sort of, let's say, a Jewish person or something, then they get really annoyed about the Holocaust, obviously, about the Second World War.
But they were actually also dropping bombs on our houses and killing loads and loads of our people.
And we almost, that's almost been taken away from us because the Holocaust reign looms over all of it.
But actually, on the way up to that, guys, they were dropping bombs on like my family and my granddad was fighting it.
So it's like, that's sort of gone.
Yeah.
Subsumed by this massive Holocaust narrative.
Is that fair?
Yeah, I think it's totally fair.
This is why I was so annoyed with the idea of a Holocaust memorial in London.
It's like, sorry, no, you're kind of claiming we're complicit.
It's like, sorry, that is the opposite.
I went to university in Coventry in like 2000, 1999.
And in the middle of the city is still the bombed out ruins of the cathedral.
So they've never rebuilt it.
And that was my first real sort of experience of, oh, no, we are living in the civilization that did something quite substantive here.
You know, that was the first time it really hit home to me.
I was like, why is that?
And then obviously they'd be like, oh, well, it was bombed in World War II, blah, blah, blah.
It's like, oh, Jesus.
Okay.
And like, yeah, why would we need a Holocaust memorial in London?
Yeah, that is an obscenity, really.
That's disgusting.
I hate it.
Yeah.
So anyways.
So there's a number of other things.
Peers pretending not to understand per capita.
Embarrassing.
That was funny.
Embarrassing.
Doing them in the millennial woes thing.
I don't understand.
And you always wonder, did he?
Is he just that thick?
He's not, though.
No, he's not.
Nick said that.
He's like, you're not stupid, Piers.
Come on.
He's not stupid.
And again, he just had to move on.
Piers just had to move on at that point.
He did a follow-up.
He lost the point.
He lost the point.
In this follow-up piece, he did a piece with Dr. Phil, and they're going, well, at least you got Nick to admit the numbers in the event we just discussed.
And Piers go, yeah, that's good.
But does Piers actually not realize Nick was taking the piss out of him?
He does not realize.
I think he might just not care.
And he's going, yeah, I got him to admit it.
And almost just like, weirdly, doesn't care that he's obviously taking the piss.
I genuinely don't think he understands.
I think he just didn't know.
Okay.
When Nick was going, I think it's more.
I'm a maximalist.
Piers is going, Brilliant.
I've got it out of you.
Yeah, exactly.
I genuinely think he didn't understand.
Okay.
It's funny for Piers' own channel called Uncensored, but they did censor a bit.
They did, didn't they?
Where Nick quoted Kanye and they just cut that out.
What did they say?
What did he cut?
He said the N-word.
I don't want to really damage logic to say.
I'm not going to say it.
I mean, we want to upload this clip on YouTube.
Yeah.
My contacts end.
I've gone crazy.
Ignore me.
Yeah, Piers just tried loads and loads of gotcha moments one after the other, like bringing up the word jewelry.
And Nick just sort of owned just sort of owns him and the point.
Just saying, no, that's the word they use.
It's not, this isn't a gotcha moment, Piers.
I saw a clip of Nick Forentes afterwards saying, Look, it's a new generation, it's a new conversation.
We're unapologetic.
It's the year of the frog, I think he said, which I also laughed out loud at.
Yeah, it's just that thing that the accusation of being racist or misogynist or anti-Semitic or whatever.
These people, these people, like people like Nick and myself, I've said it myself.
I don't care.
Call me what you want.
I don't care anymore.
You had a good company.
You have no power over me with that now.
To say, well, they all are is a really interesting response, right?
Because what it's saying is the Zoomers who are growing up in the multi-culture society are surrounded by people who have in-group ethnic interests.
And that means that you would describe them as racists.
And so the experience of the young men who are being thrown into this society, like, wow, everyone around me is a racist.
Well, what's the logical thing to do then?
You've got to kind of do the thing yourself.
Well, yeah, I just again, how many generations have to pass before the accusation of being racist or misogynist or anti-Semitic or whatever it is, a bigot, whatever it is, how many years have to pass before, as a collective, we're able to just move past that, step over that and say, oh, okay, I think that, fine, but I actually want my country back.
I'm actually going to, I'm not going to apologize for even real crimes of my ancestors.
I had nothing to do with that.
I'm not guilty of that.
Yeah, so the answer is kind of now, isn't it?
Because this is why this interview was so significant.
Obviously, people carry on being worried about being called racist.
Fuentes is the tip of the spear, but this is the moment.
It's kind of like, oh, they don't care anymore.
And when Piers said, oh, you're racist, that's it.
I've got it out of him.
He even said to Steven Crowder, what are you talking about?
I got it out of him.
It's like, he thinks that's the end of the.
I've won.
He said the magic word.
And I said, no, that's like, that's like Nick swearing on a holy book he doesn't believe in.
He's doing, it's a fake OFM because he's like, yeah, I'm racist.
Cool.
What now?
Your magic doesn't work on me anymore.
So that's the crucial moment.
Yeah.
Because partly because so much evil has been done in the name of this word, the rape gangs being the most obvious in this country.
Well, the Manchester Arena bombing, man.
I didn't want to.
I don't want to report this suspicious guy because I didn't want to be called a racist.
It's like 22 people died.
And we covered up thousands of the rape and torture of thousands of people.
Yeah, there's so many because of this word.
And in America, it's slightly different, but it'll be similar internet.
I mean, I mean, to be fair, I don't know how anyone could really honestly think Piers won.
Because on the key points, on that, for example, Fuentes will bring up Carl Popper and he'll call himself an iconoclast or something.
And again, Piers Morgan has nothing.
Because you know, if Piers Morgan thinks he can win, thinks he can nail you down, thinks he can make you look really stupid, put his thumb on your forehead, he would.
But he didn't.
He's just like, he just moves on to an exit.
Oh, well, now we're talking about women now, then.
It's like, oh, okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
No, Pierre's not going to be able to debate Karl Popper, is he?
I mean, there's no insight.
He may be clever in a sort of shrewd way and he's good at getting success, but he's not an intellectual.
So he's not going to be able to debate Nick on anything.
Right.
I mean, so, and then towards the end, like the last half of the last third of it, there's a much more sort of quick fire thing where Piers Morgan ups the tempo of the gotcha's attempts.
So he goes through like women, he goes through Trump, MAGA, the Tucker thing, Candy Sowings, Charlie Kirk, Musk, the 2020 election, JD Vance.
He just tried to just a quick fire.
Like, you're wrong on this, aren't you?
Boom, boom, boom.
And Nick Frances, it felt like he was just knocking it aside with ease, really.
It felt like to me.
So, anyway, that happened.
And then now the reaction to it.
Well, on Newsnight, the very, very balanced Newsnight.
Had Discord, you want to watch a bit of it?
Actually, watch it.
Watch some of it.
I mean, it's 60%.
I wonder what guests they had on.
I'm sure they had adequate representation to explain both sides of the issue.
He's the BBC after all.
Danny Finkelstein and Ash Sarka are brilliant.
Ash, was Danny right to engage?
I think it's really hard to come up with a strategy for dealing with the rise of someone like Nick Fuentes.
And I can see that there is a case for saying, well, I'm not going to convince him, but I can try and convince his audience or people who could be drawn into his audience.
I can also see the argument against it, which is here, someone who is looking for attention, and what he needs is an opponent to bounce off of.
In terms of how do you understand Nick Fuentes, I think it's important to see him as a symptom of something.
But I might want to ignore him.
Can I ignore him, Danny?
Just to pause on that.
Yeah, that's true.
But weren't that symptom is you saying, quote, we're winning, lads.
That's what the symptom is.
It's you.
Exactly.
You creating the diverse, multi-cultural feminist society that floods our countries with foreigners and then gives them privileges over the native young men.
Yeah, while saying the natives are evil and privileged, even though they're poor and struggling or whatever.
And that any criticism of that is beyond the pale.
He's racist, yeah.
You made me.
Although she probably agrees with him on Israel.
Have a good chat about that.
They probably could.
But I just thought that was interesting.
How, like, oh, you know, it's a real symptom.
Yeah, you are the symptom.
You literally crowing that, you know, the white British are the minority in London.
That's you doing that.
That's quite extreme, isn't it?
Like a population being replaced in their own country, their only home, and you would gloat over them.
That's like a provocation.
No wonder they don't care about being called racist anymore.
Ash is completely different.
It is a dilemma.
But I made a choice, and you have to choose in the end.
Do you take them on or do you ignore them?
I don't think we retain the power to simply ignore people like that.
I think he has got his own audience.
He builds it up.
He was recently interviewed by Tucker Carlson, another American YouTuber, I suppose, you could call him, broadcaster, who gave him a very soft interview.
So I think.
Sorry, I hate to just continually pause, but isn't this a remarkable thing, right?
Look at how relaxed she seems.
Completely in control of the conversation.
Minority, literal communist.
And then you have conservative Lord Finkelstein going.
Well, I mean, I think I was okay to talk to him.
I think I should talk to him.
But what are you begging for her approval for?
What are you begging for her approval for?
Like the literal conservative is sat there with the literal communist going, well, look, please don't chew me out.
Why do you have any respect for the opinion of Ash Sarka?
This is the range of opinion allowed.
Tim Stanley did the same.
He did a gushing interview with Ash Sarka on the Telegraph podcast.
But he's always signaling against Rupert Lowe.
So it's like the range is wet Tory to literal communist.
That's the range.
And they sit there comfortably.
Yeah, that's the range of the BBC.
But it's the range of the Telegraph.
And the communists.
And unharmed spectator, by the way, as well, as we said earlier.
This is the accepted Overton window.
Would you like wet left or really far extreme left?
Yeah.
I think they're really far extreme left, to be honest.
I mean, at least it's more honest.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, people that are truly, truly conservative or nationalist, even like a Civnet.
Someone like Tommy is beyond the pale.
Yeah, they couldn't possibly.
Let alone someone who's a true patriot.
They just cannot have it.
Yeah.
And Kharki can't even get on GB News.
Probably me after this, but people say, well, he has been because he's not.
No, that's a Steve Edgington.
That's a separate practice.
Let me know when you're on the main channel.
It's very, this is the world we're in.
It's a far, it's left.
It helps.
I've never tried getting on GB News.
Well, the point is, Ofcom controls all this, and all they do is police the current Overton window, which is you can be sort of center-ish to far left.
I'm centre.
I know, well, you should be allowed.
You're sensible centre, you should be allowed on, but I'm saying that's what we're seeing.
Sorry, carry on.
Piers Morgan was right to have him on to challenge him, and that he thinks he's getting the best of the argument by simply going, Sure, I'm a racist.
Who cares about Hitler?
But actually, I think it's a position he may not regret tomorrow, but he will in 10 years' time.
I don't know.
I think he's going to do a bit of a threat.
He may regret that.
Things happen.
Accidents happen all the time.
No, just joking.
But can I just say, sorry if this is too obvious, Rob, but the numbers on the Fuentes interview and on his live streams all the time versus Newsnight, which is completely this has had 13,000 views.
Right.
I know someone that used to work on it, but it's completely fallen apart this show.
So I hate to make the obvious point, but these guys are pretending they're the arbiters of anything.
No, no, you're obscure.
This is obscure, lefty bollocks.
The millions on the Fuentes interview, that's the mainstream.
And you look at Tucker's numbers, say I mean, it's dominant.
It's dominant.
Yeah, yeah, these guys are literally a sideshow.
they have I suppose is that they're in touch with the sort of ruling elite and in that way they're sat in the ivory towers but the crowds aren't at the base of the ivory tower anymore right They're all in a Colosseum somewhere else, ignoring what these guys had to say.
I think it's this.
Being immersed in a digital world makes you more socially isolated, makes you worse at interacting with people in real life, makes you worse at forming relationships, makes you scared and resentful of the opposite sex.
Completely unable to find the truth anymore.
Completely.
But not just that.
You develop this real antipathy and hostility for the world.
And you are isolated and you are frightened and you are hostile and you feel hard done by.
And so Nick Fuentes can come in and appeal to the millions of young men who are out there who are looking for someone to feed their fantasies of some kind of historical purpose and retaking what's rightfully theirs.
That's amazing.
That's absolutely amazing.
Let's assume that's all true.
How did these young men arrive at that point?
Because it used to be that young men were like, no, you have to get out and get a job.
You have to get out.
You have to do something.
Now it's like, no, nobody wants you.
We literally have all women shortlists.
We'll literally have minority shortlists.
There are literally apprenticeships in the BBC that are for brown people only.
No white men are allowed to get these things.
When the local police, was it in Chester or wherever, where they got sued by this guy, this white guy, who was like, no, I have the perfect resume.
And they're like, no, you're not brown.
We're not having you.
You're not a woman.
We're not having you.
With the RAF, all we're getting is useless white men applying.
It's like, sorry, what do you mean?
These are the places in society that Ash is lamenting that they're not holding anymore.
And she has been part of this cultural wave that has destroyed the dignity and nobility of the white men who would go into those as white men.
She's just going, no, there's too many straight white men here.
And now the ROF is like, well, we've just got too many straight white men.
It's like, well, there we go.
You are right, Ash.
That is correct.
But you helped cause this.
And suddenly it's like, well, they're all in their basements on the internet.
Yeah, because they're not allowed the jobs.
They're not allowed to be where they used to be.
It's quite funny.
You said it's a fancy, they're going to have any sort of, they're going to take anything back.
Where she's boasting about taking it from you yeah, it's actually.
Well, she's boasting about the conquest like oh, it's a fantasy that you're going to have anything like that.
But let's see, I mean let's yeah, let's see where it goes right, like lamenting that they would, that they've something's been, they think something's been stolen from them.
It's like yeah, like the last 15, 20 years, just the example, just the examples of say uh, English heritage and the National Trust that's been completely perverted and subverted, the idea that there's something profoundly and fundamentally wrong with your history and heritage, just that of one of many angles we could bring up here.
I mean this like just that, yeah, they feel like they've been robbed.
Well, they have in fact yeah, of something.
And I mean this NEWS Night in Panel is a great example.
Where's the representative for the Nick Fuentes fans?
Yeah why where, you know why?
Why is there not a single, and not even the?
I hate him.
I hate him a bit more.
Oh, that's balance.
Yeah, exactly.
And then you've got Robert Peston on the end.
I hate him a lot.
You know, it's like that's not pest.
Is it, was it?
Oh, it was.
Oh okay, it was someone else, but um, but the point is like, where is the representation they're not even allowed to have, even if it was an old guy who was just like well, you know, I think maybe we should be, you know Peter, Hitchensing it, you know, think about, you know what they're going through, or something like that.
It's like no, you've got Gordon Peterson.
Well yeah exactly, there's no one on their side on.
Peterson hates Fuentes as well.
I mean, that's a mistake people have made as well they're, they're not.
Why not welcome, why not come at it from an avuncular angle, even Danny Filkelstein?
Okay, he may be triggered and upset, I don't understand why, but why not come at it in an avuncular way when Peterson called Fuentes a rat and I thought it was disgusting and insane.
It's like you talk about helping out young men.
Let's say he is misguided, don't?
Haven't men always helped misguided young men?
They've helped criminals, they've helped, like in Borstel and the juvenile detention.
It's like, isn't your role to say okay, I get, I get yeah, I get the edgy thing?
Have you considered this?
That's much better, that's much more persuasive.
You're surprised he didn't.
I'm surprised he didn't think.
I've seen it.
It would have been harder to given the stakes, but he could have approached it.
He could have said and he sort of did a little bit in his video, but he could have said, look Nick, have you thought about this?
Just come up with them with that energy, rather than like your scum to a lot of people.
This is actually real and it happened.
You know, in living memory.
You know my, my relations actually were murdered.
Yeah, this actually does matter.
To start, I get why you're angry.
I get that society's dumped on you and that they thought, but I don't think this is the way, there's a way of doing that.
Yeah, you want to do it absolutely, absolutely and I I, I completely agree.
And instead they went like full hostile and so Nick was just like well, I don't care and you can't make me care.
It's like okay, now what?
And it's embarrassing and weird to do it to a young person.
When Ben Shapiro did it to him, that's what basically created Fruentes.
He crushed him in a tweet when he was 18, had no following.
Why are you doing that to like a basically a child?
And now he's 27, but he's still much younger.
It's like, why have you sort of, it's something a bit pathetic about it.
It's like a younger person.
You sort of go, okay, mate, I get what you're saying.
You don't go, oh, dare you shut up.
I just think it's weak.
That's exactly right.
It reveals a profound weakness on the part of this consensus.
Anyway, I mean, do we need to go on?
No, not necessarily the point.
Just to mention that there was that, and then they did, he did a one-hour thing.
He had Dr. Phil, Harry Sisson, and Danny Finkelstein on, but also a couple of people I've never heard of.
But he had that Andrew Wilson and Glenn Greenwald, who both did push back a bit.
To be fair to them, they did push back a bit.
So Piers Morgan is actually more interesting than Newsnight because he will actually platform an opposing opinion.
I'll give him that.
Yeah, that he let Andrew Wilson and Glenn Greenwald on is better than just, oh, no, we'll go with Danny Finkelstein and Ash Sarka.
I mean, what is that, really?
And even Piers capitulated slightly on.
He said, yeah, I shouldn't have used his dad's first name.
And he also said, I see your point about the Catholic thing a little bit as well.
Andrew Wilson chased.
Yeah, because Nicholas married, he's following the teachings of the Catholic Church and the legend Catholic Piers isn't.
So he acknowledged that a little bit.
Yeah, yeah.
Which is like you say, better than the BBC.
Very, very small amount of credit where it's due on those two points.
Yeah, yeah, boy.
I hate Piers Morgan.
I don't want to give him any credit.
That thumbnail is just getting ridiculous as well, isn't it?
It's a dirty thumbnail, actually.
Anyway, Neo Unrealist says, We have a similar phenomenon in the US with the Civil War.
That's a great point.
Modern leftists expect everyone to hate the Confederacy and the Confederate figures even more than people who fought and defeated them in the 1860s.
Yeah, that's a great point.
TV shows like Hogan's Heroes and Mikhail's Navy to name two mock the Nazis with actors who fought in the war.
And in one case, an actor playing a Nazi had a family that died in the camps.
Yeah, it's like, again, they just weren't this figure of terror when we were young.
Like, we didn't think we were going to lose to the Nazis again.
And yet, here we are with them going, oh, we got the Nazis were on the march.
It's like, what do you mean?
You know, we were not afraid of this.
They were just the Germans and they were the enemies.
And that's fine.
We beat our enemies.
That's enough.
Well, we're just in an absurd place, aren't we?
Yeah.
Where someone like Tommy Robinson or Nigel Farage is a Nazi.
I mean, you're just in an absurd place at that point, right?
Absolutely right.
Anyway, let's move on.
So, one of my favourite things is watching LBC.
I can't do it.
Not because...
You've got a stronger stomach than me, my friend.
Well...
Well, I mean, you know, I tune into the clips of James O'Brien every day.
I don't watch the whole show, obviously, but whenever a James O'Brien clip comes up on my feed, I watch it just to get a feel for the parallel dimension that he's living in, right?
Because he's living in this weird dimension where, like, you know, everything about Britain is bad, and everything about foreigners and minorities and LGBT and all this sort of this is this is where like true goodness and morality resides.
And so, you know, Nigel Farrar's on the march, as you say, the Nazis are coming, you know, it's all crashing down, the walls are closing in on James O'Brien.
And one of my favourite points has been watching Tom Swarbrick because Tom Swarbrick is actually not a lunatic.
And I covered this in a clip a month ago, in this segment a month ago, because he'd gone to Birmingham and he was looking around like, wow, this stinks.
This is gross.
And he didn't notice, did he?
He did start noticing that he went to Birmingham and found a city full of foreigners who are basically wallowing in their own filth.
And he was trying to talk to them.
He's like, have you got a problem with this?
And they're like, no speaking English.
He's like, yeah.
And so you could see that he's just like, right, I'm not sure diversity is as much of a strength as they're claiming.
And I think that is the sort of, you know, the first bit of the red pill that is slightly slowing, starting to go down.
I mean, there's this bit here the other day where he was like, why is David Lamy just laughing at the accidental release of sex offenders from prison?
He's like, that's not a good look.
I've said one thing.
I've noticed the exact same with Swarbrick.
An academic agent, normally very good at nilogisms, he calls him the NPC, which I think is wrong.
He's much more the basically Michael Douglas in falling down, waiting to come out.
He's just on the edge.
I mean, he was an advisor for Theresa May briefly.
Not exactly far right, but he's not the usual LBC leftist maniac.
So he's in there just going, Am I, and he's surrounded by complete manus, as you say.
So he's there, going, Am I completely insane here?
Yeah.
And he can barely take it.
Yeah.
I'm surprised the powers that be at LBC haven't fired him by.
It's the clock is ticking.
The clock is definitely ticking.
So there's one thing being like, you know, David Lamy, is this a good look?
Which is fairly milquetoast, fairly normal.
And then he gets the people emigrating to Dubai.
And all he says, I mean, this is quite funny.
We'll watch some of the clips, but not all of them.
All he says in this one is like, well, I mean, this woman's emigrating to Dubai for her children and her sanity, but they're forgoing British values.
It's like, yeah, it's almost like there are more important things than British values.
This was based this one.
Yeah, he said you're going over there for your personal wealth and you're abandoning British values.
And he did mean E through and things like the sort of liberal values that he kind of meant.
But still, he's basically saying they've got terrible human rights.
You just want the money.
It was pretty based in a way.
Is that aimed at Richard Tysis?
No, no, no.
That was aimed at the caller.
Some caller.
But the point is, you can see that this is getting into his mind because this is a great little clip where you can see we are being absolutely turned over left, right, and center.
We've been in Seville for the last few days and in the touristy bits, the really touristy bits.
And we sat at this cafe and there were six of us and so drinks were had and there's beverages everywhere and lagers going down and cokes for the kids and da da da.
Anyway, got this bill at the end of the thing.
Five pints, two glasses of wine, couple of cokes, 20 euros.
20 so what, 18 quid?
In the most central touristy bit of a very touristy area of Spain.
That's and it just makes you realize that's cheap.
Household bills, council tax, energy bills, prices at the shops, prices at the pumps, we are being squeezed in a way that I just don't think other parts of Europe, let alone other parts of the world, are feeling at all.
And so you can see where he's like, but what about your British values?
It's like, yeah, no, no, you know.
And I had the same experience when I went to Italy a couple of months ago.
It was just like, wow, this is way cheaper than it is here.
And so you can see that there's a real structural problem.
The people in the government are laughing.
We're getting completely ripped off.
It's a lot cheaper elsewhere.
People are fleeing to Dubai, regardless of the British values.
You can see that, like, if he's like the NPC, it's the NPC where the bits are falling off and the angry face is coming out from behind it, right?
It's just like, well, hang on a second.
Why is this happening?
And I think that the more Tom is exposed to, well, frankly, the world around reality and more importantly, radical leftism, the more sceptical he's becoming of the narratives that he's been fed.
This particular one I enjoyed where he had a chat with gender clinic founder Helen Weberly about the science of gender affirming care.
I wish we had a blood test.
I wish we had a brain scan.
I wish we had a psychological test.
But actually, the only test we have is asking somebody for their own experiences, their own personal sense of identity, and whether they themselves, in every single soul, cells in their heart, soul, and body, identify as female or male or family.
That's not science, isn't it?
That's very nice to talk to people about.
What science are you asking for?
Are you asking for the blood test or the brain scan?
Because there isn't one.
I'm asking for the science of the science of the soul that I think you described.
You talked about the soul, that the soul is somehow different to the body.
So it's like saying, well, what's the science behind someone who has euphoria or dysphoria or has a feeling, has an understanding.
You speak to them, we have brains.
You know, you speak to them, you ask them, and you and you understand what they are saying.
And that is on the basis of the eight-year-old's soul is telling us.
Oh, I see, so we don't listen to eight-year-olds now.
So it's an eight-year-old comes and says, Mum, I'm sad.
Mum, I'm unhappy.
Mum, I'm being bullied.
Mum, I'm not a girl.
And we don't believe everything, but not that one.
We teach our children to come to us when they have an issue and we believe them.
But I'm asking you what the science is that says that that child is...
Oh, we've been through this.
What are you wanting?
The blood test or the brain scan?
Is that what you want?
Or is it the words?
I want the brain scan of her, the psychological test.
But you can see where he's like, right, so very skeptical of this.
It's like, right, so I'm supposed to believe that the eight-year-old's soul is in the wrong body.
Yeah, I do believe in this, but not listening the wrong body.
And that list was a bit in Congress.
I'm unhappy.
I'm being bullied.
They seem quite factual.
I'm a girl.
What?
Those aren't similar.
I see what you did there, but they're not similar.
That's just loads of things you have to disregard from a small child.
Yes.
I'm a dragon.
Loads of things.
Yeah, my daughter is a dinosaur every day.
All right, you get a little toddler, probably younger than eight, but a little toddler gets under the sink and has got a bleach and wants to drink it.
You yank it out of its hand and it throws a wobbler because you're not letting it do what it wants.
Happens all the time.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, that's the correct thing to do.
Yeah, you don't let it drink bleach.
You don't let an eight-year-old decide its gender on a win.
You're not letting eight-year-olds run society anymore.
What happened?
Yeah, yeah.
And is there some science behind this?
No.
No.
No, this is ideology.
We're talking about the soul.
You know, we ask them the words.
It's like, well, okay, so this is complete woo.
And also, total woo.
We ask the eight-year-old in a culture absolutely drenched with this garbage if they've picked any of it up and want to repeat it back to us.
It turns out sometimes they have.
But anyway, Tom's a dad, and you can see that this is just like, yeah, this is not going to wash with my kids.
And so people have started noticing, actually, they're like, oh my God, Tom Swarbeck, he's getting a bit as virally transphobic as Shayla Fogarty.
Like, what's going on here?
This is raving bigots.
And for example, like when he was confronted with the one in three kids in Glasgow not being native English speakers, he was just like, is that normal?
Is that normal?
Let's watch about all of history.
Yeah.
The fact that people come into this country from other countries, perhaps there's some other driver sort of going on, for example, the fact that Britain keeps going around bombing other people's countries or taking wars.
You're saying that there's people who don't speak English.
Are you talking about German speakers?
No, I'm talking about the people.
Are you talking about English?
So you are projecting.
You're talking about people of colour.
That's who you're talking about.
Let's just get straight to it.
It must be some latent covert racism that has just boiled to the surface.
I've never said racism.
You brought race into it.
Why does this have to turn into a question of race in your mind?
Everything that you're suggesting about immigration and newcomers.
What is, are you talking about Ukrainians?
Well, absolutely.
Yep.
Yep.
Okay, let's talk about Germans.
Let's talk about French.
Let's talk about it.
But why did you bring race into it?
I don't understand why you're essentially accusing.
Why are you implying that this is about race by using coded language?
You're using a code.
What's the code?
Please do.
Decoded for me.
It would be very difficult for you to say, see, these blacks and browns, they're a big problem in this country.
It'd be very difficult for one to say, I'm not directing it at you, I'm directing it at the debate.
So you can see how he's like, well, I mean, there's a problem with that, but I'm not going to go that far, right?
I'm not going to go that far.
And just getting to that point, I mean, that was a very neutral Civnap position.
Just getting to that point, it's just people, oh my god, I thought he was half reasonable, but he seems to be racing to the far right at the speed of light.
Is that person not being ironic?
They really...
No, no, they're not being ironic.
The LBC is Reform Radio now.
And the thing is, I think they're kind of right, because he has also been like, hang on a second, are 15-year-old girls really responsible for the Afghan migrants raping them?
And one caller says, well, yes.
We need to give more education on our young girls because our young girls approach these foreign guys.
So it's up to the girls.
It's up to the girls to not approach people who they think might be foreign.
Let's not get into a situation where we pull ourselves and get ourselves into trouble.
That's my point.
But my other point is, let's also say that's a good idea.
This is a 15-year-old girl drinking vodka.
Yep, she's drinking vodka with a friend.
She gets separated from her friend and these two individuals take her off into woodland.
That part is wrong.
That I totally don't agree with.
So what's that girl meant to...
And this is what this...
Oh, God.
What is that girl meant to...
Don't laugh.
You just speak.
Why are you blaming a 15-year-old girl for her own rape?
I was a bit confused about this clip.
I was going to post about it because I was infuriated as well.
But then, I thought, I didn't like he was saying our girls when he, to me, had a South African accent.
I was like, they're not our.
Well, then I suddenly thought, is this a South African trying and being careful on the radio, but trying to warn people like, this happens in my country, here's what you've got to do.
It just came into my head that it might be that.
He's basically saying, I've dealt with this, and you've got to be careful about foreigners.
I'm not sure that's what you're saying.
He might have just been saying that it's South Asian to me, but anyway, he's not a native, right?
And the point is, you can see that he's getting a bit pissed off with this.
But what are you laughing for?
You're blaming this 15-year-old for literally getting raped by a couple of Afghans.
No, if he was doing that, it's completely sick.
And it is like in real time, when you scratch the surface, once you notice one thing, suddenly whole new vistas of red peelness opens up before you, right?
Once you accept and you realize you actually challenge the cognitive dissonance and the craziness of it.
Once you pop, you can't stop.
Yeah, he started noticing.
He began to rip the plaster off.
You realize, oh.
Oh.
No, this girl doesn't bear any responsibility for this rape.
It's the two Afghan migrants who separated her from her friend and then abused her that do.
And people are starting to notice.
Tom Swarbrick just ran a phone in arguing that asylum seekers should be kept indoors until their claims are settled or we know who they are.
Incredibly, he thinks this isn't an extremist position.
But I mean, it's not.
Like, that's a perfectly reasonable position for a far right.
Not just indoors, behind lock and key.
Yeah, yeah, literally, like behind bars.
I mean, you broke into the country.
We don't know who you are.
We're not just going to give you access to the country.
But that's a far-right position, you see, because the moderate centrist liberal consensus is give them your money and give them access to as many children as they can handle.
That's literally the moderate liberal consensus.
Love the last sentence, but we don't put curfews on all white males because of minority rates.
They think we just put curvys on every white male.
Do you remember those stats during COVID by the way?
When people, just after COVID, saying, like, yeah, we should have curfews continuing forever.
People are insane when it comes to that.
Yeah.
Let's move on to the grooming gangs because, believe it or not, Tom is not actually on the narrative of the grooming gangs either.
He's, again, he's got a very far-right narrative.
I think Tom's about a few shows off joining Lotus Eaters, is what I'm hearing.
What the hell are we doing?
What the hell are we doing?
That means that the police in this country, the judiciary in this country, the people responsible for protecting the most vulnerable people in society at their most vulnerable point in their lives say, actually, no, we think you were in love with him.
That the 13-year-old was in love with the 56-year-old man who already had three children.
The police and the prosecution services responsible for bringing people to justice say, nah, downgrade that one.
Great question, Tom.
Based?
Very based.
You can't argue with it, can you?
No, it's a man's beginning to be honest with himself.
Yes.
It sounds like.
Because I don't watch him ever.
I never watch LBC ever.
As you say, I mean, lots of people are watching him and lots of people are like, well, hang on a second.
This sounds like far right.
It's like, well, there's a reason that he's like asking these questions.
And everyone keeps essentially triangulating over the same sort of, you know, square of ground politically.
It's like, right, okay, no, they shouldn't be blaming the 15-year-old.
They shouldn't be saying that the grooming gang victim actually is in love with her thing.
We should be actually doing some of this.
We aren't getting completely screwed economically.
What is going on?
And everyone just keeps coming to the position we're at, basically, which is this is all on purpose.
And if he is an NBC, it said he's the normal English bloke.
He's such a normal English.
He went to born in school, he's a bit possible, but he's a normal English bloke who's just going, am I crazy here?
So he does represent the way things have gone so mad.
It's not even really that he's gone to the far right, is it?
It's just that he's.
It's just the far right has come to him.
Basically.
That's, you know, literally like everything else.
You know, now you're in the far right.
I mean, like, you've got your Dom McGowan being like, just heard Tom Swarbrook do a yeah, but about Andrew Tate.
It's like, oh, well, Andrew Tate should never, no defense for that vile excuse for a human being.
Not one ever.
Well, welcome to the far right, Tom.
This guy's blocked me, but I never know who he is.
Oh, he's just some lefty lunatic.
He's not in any way interesting.
But then you've got like, you know, what should the punishment for the grooming gangs be?
And again, the far right has caught up with Tom.
If we can put the sound on.
It is racist and will lead to a two-tier system based on whether you are born in the UK or acquired citizenship via eligibility.
All grooming gang paedophiles should be given the same sanction, prison for life.
Their ethnicity or route to citizenship is irrelevant.
Lock them up.
Joe, I think the easy answer is they spend the rest of their life in prison.
Unfortunately, they don't spend the rest of their life in prison.
I really, really reject the notion that this is racist because I don't care what the colour of your skin, I don't care where you come from, if you commit a crime of this type and you are a dual citizen, I think the government should reserve the right to revoke your British citizenship.
Again, that's not a racial thing.
It's not a religious-based description or decision.
If you are a dual national from Britain and France or Italy or wherever, you know, you're a white guy, you're a black woman.
It doesn't matter.
Normal man has normal opinion.
Exactly.
Wants to deport the rapists.
Good point, Tom.
Yeah.
Good point, I think.
With you all the way, buddy.
Yeah, and then you start getting into questions of identity, right?
So he had this conversation with an Indian man who was like, I'm not English.
Why are you saying that I'm English?
And again, look at the expression on his face.
You can see that he's deep in thought on this.
He's like, right, I know what the narrative is.
Anyone born in England is English.
Isn't it, you know, ipso facto?
But this Indian guy is making a point.
I'm really speaking from an Indian person, British Indian.
I'm proudly British, fiercely British, love it.
I can't stand it when Indians say they are English.
It really, really, really frustrates me.
I tell you why.
I will say to them, look at yourself in the mirror, get a picture of your parents and look at them.
Are your parents Indian or not?
Yes, they are.
My friend, you are Indian.
Just because you're born in a country doesn't mean you were that.
They're born in Britain.
That means they are British, no?
Yes, British, yes.
I agree with that.
But you are English.
Go get a DNA test and what would that come back and say?
You're probably coming from that part of the world.
Okay, fine.
Fine.
So how many generations back do we have to go before we say, yeah, okay, you are pure English enough?
You know, you've got...
My granddad was...
I'm Scottish.
Do I, do I, you know, I'm, I'm, what am I?
I'm an eighth, no, quarter Scottish.
I would personally identify, if I was you, there's a yes, quarter eight Scottish.
That would be that would be part of you, who you are.
Now, if you then choose to say you're English, that's your choice.
But you're not.
But I am.
Look at your DNA line and stuff.
I'm sorry.
That's just the way it is.
Okay, well, I'm a sort of, if we look at my DNA line, Jazz, I've sort of emerged out of the swampy bog of the River Ribble.
Look how bass they call him.
It's like, you're not English.
You've got that quarter Scottish, filthy job.
One drop rule from the Indian caller.
But you can see, like, he's just like, okay, I'm being presented with a bunch of things that are obviously true.
I can't actually deny them.
And you look at the expression on his face, he's just like, well, where am I supposed to go from this?
You know, even that one was new for him.
The English one he hadn't thought of.
He hadn't.
The distinction between British and English hadn't occurred to him.
It looked like.
No, absolutely.
And, you know, being quarter Scottish and three quarters English.
Yeah, you're English, Tom.
Just why would you even have that concern?
But the point is, you can see how the NPC mask is fracturing away.
And he's just like, no, I need to have answers to these questions.
These are the things that are coming up.
And he finds himself essentially falling on the right-hand side.
And this particular caller was really interesting.
It's a Portuguese lady who's literally lecturing him about you are losing your identity for the sake of political correctness.
And he's just like, yeah, no, I think you're right.
And it's just like, come on, political correctness has gone absolutely bonkers.
You guys are losing your identity for the sake of political correctness.
I don't disagree with you.
And you are putting your people on levels of mental health crisis to levels that are just abysmal because people feel they cannot openly speak up because they're going to be censored, they're going to be cancelled, or worse, if you make a tweet, you can be put into jail.
Well, I understand.
I know what you're going to say.
You know, there have to be consequences for the stuff that you say, etc.
And I agree with that.
But you are in a position where you have thousands of people coming into this country that they simply do not want to assimilate.
You can see his defenses against every right-wing argument are incredibly weak.
He's like, yep, no, we are losing our identity.
Well, I mean, I don't know.
You can see he's coming over.
He knows what the truth is.
He knows the reality of all of this.
And it's just, it's written on his face.
You know, he looks a little bit like, and I don't want to diss him because I do like him.
He looks a little bit like Matt Walsh.
You know, in Matt Walsh, all those memes are like Matt Walsh, not looking like him.
I mean, stuck.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Stuck in the position at Daily Wire.
I think in Matt, you've got a massive following.
Why'd you have to just go out on your own?
But there's all those memes of me.
He wants to say something he can't.
That's canisphorbic at LBC.
He's like, oh, I'm far too right-wing for this channel.
Exactly.
And he wants the job.
It's not the ticking clock, though.
It's only a matter of time.
In a more normal time, they did.
So he seems like someone who's, as I say, beginning to be honest with himself, accept realities.
Yeah.
I mean, I think both you guys do this.
I definitely do this.
Is whenever I feel kind of any real cognitive dissonance or something, I'll just sort of stop and take a step back and be like, wait, wait, what now?
What's going on?
What do I actually think about these things?
Why is that?
How does this not make sense in my worldview?
And the only way you could still be a sort of wokeist leftist is to just ignore that.
Like on a large scale, all the time.
And it seems like this chap is not doing that.
He's being forced to engage.
So again, it's a matter of time, probably.
Exactly.
It's quite painful as Peter Hitchens has described when he changed all his views.
You lose all your friends.
Like, you don't really want to change your mind.
Like, no, no, I didn't want to do it.
I was doing comedy.
I don't want to do any of this.
Like, you don't actually want to notice.
When you notice, you're like, oh, I've noticed.
Like, it's quite annoying because I'm going to have to lose all my friends now and not tell people my job at the pub.
Tom Swarbrick wandering around Birmingham and being like, how am I going to keep my job?
Yeah, even me on GB News.
I didn't tell my football team for two years.
And one of them found out.
It's not particularly pleasant to be like, have to tell the truth all the time.
Ultimately, someone like Fuentes on the no-fly list, bank account frozen.
I'm relatively minor.
And you've been through a lot of things as well.
It's like, it's not that much fun.
And you with the reform thing.
It's not that much fun to notice the truth.
And there's a lot of penalties to it.
And changing your mind in general, you're going to have to move from one milieu to another.
So you can see why he'd resist it and be like, oh, yeah.
It's a classic thing going back to ancient times, going back to the pre-Socratics.
Going back to like he pictured to some of the early Stoics and stuff.
Would you rather be deliberately keep yourself in ignorance but be happy?
Or face the truth and potentially be very, very unhappy?
It's an important philosophical question.
Choice.
I always go with the truth, with reality.
I'm not interested in being falsely happy.
What is that anyway?
You're not really.
But not just that.
Tom's got a wife and kids, right?
So he's got a responsibility to other people.
So he finds himself in the dad position of, well, I've got to be well informed about what's really happening.
And I can't really afford to have the sort of liberal mysticism blur my vision because otherwise my children will get hurt.
But also you have to support your children financially.
But then you've also got to not lose your whole culture.
And we've seen a lot of these boomers, I don't know, title boomers again, but they didn't care about one of those.
They cared about short-termism.
And now it's like, you've destroyed our country.
It's that thing, if you take it seriously, what the world will be like after you personally are dead.
Do you care about what you leave to your children or grandchildren, progeny in general?
Do you care about that or not?
Yeah, like Richard Twice apparently doesn't particularly.
I'll be long gone.
I mean, I don't even have kids, and I feel this intense responsibility about it and this pain of like, what if my people were all wiped out?
If there were no English people in England, even if I was dead, I'd be like, that's horrific.
That's horrific.
It's like YouTube showing the Frodo seeing the Shire take over.
It's like, no way, never.
Few things are more important to me.
Yeah, I literally can't think of anything more important than that.
Anyway, we'll leave that there.
Have we got any video comments today, Samson?
That's a random name says, it boils down to this.
England should never be minority English.
Scotland should never be minority Scottish.
If you disagree, you're a traitor.
So what's the argument for making us minorities in our own country?
That is pretty much just a perfect statement, right?
I can't argue with any of that.
Logan's got a good one here.
I watch the rest of this politics to see what the enemy is thinking.
Honestly, I'm starting to think they have a bunker mentality.
Yeah, I've been watching the rest of politics and the new statesman podcast for exactly that reason, just to see where they are, you know.
And they feel like they're on the defensive.
When I'm watching it, like, with ours, at least we feel kind of confident.
You know, we're kind of, even if things are going really badly, we assume that this won't be like this forever, right?
There'll be some radical right-wing backlash.
We'll eventually win.
You know, our time is inevitable, basically.
That's kind of the feel that I get from our podcast.
But these ones look at, like, they look like they're looking ahead and going, oh, my God.
Oh, my God.
Let's just try and cling on to whatever we have left, you know?
So, good news.
I enjoy watching them.
Yeah, they're definitely running scared, especially the maitlesses and all those types.
Any news night, you know?
Yeah, any regime types or any, some of them, maybe the far-leftist ones are a bit different.
It's weird.
I feel like we're kind of like Mao in the civil war.
Where the nationalists hold up in the cities, but they're afraid to come into the hinterland because we're the hinterland.
And the group is going to be in their comments.
And they're like, oh, God.
So I feel like our victory is just inevitable at this point.
I've argued that it's been inevitable for a long time.
It's a great tactic.
Yeah, yeah.
It is a great tactic.
It's a tactic.
Just to say, well, it's inevitable.
I've got Elon Musk posting about white genocide.
No white.
On Maine.
Yeah.
I mean, on Maine.
And you can say, well, do something then, Elon, which is a criticism, but it's certainly a different time.
I know a plucky podcast you could fund if you really wanted.
Or just appear on.
Yeah, or just appear on.
Instead of messaging girls, messaging, I need to personally repopulate here.
Slip into Carl's DMs with a check.
Every right-wing ego.
Do you think if I change my profile picture to something more busty?
Anyway, let's go to the video comments.
Oh, there aren't any.
Okay, great.
Russian says, Bonnie Blue delivers coal for Christmas to prudish, frigid women.
That is funny, to be honest.
I wasn't aware that Bonnie Blue was basically threatening the women of England.
Shag your husbands, or I'm going to shag them.
One of her main talking points, yeah.
I don't want to get their job.
I wouldn't be, I'd be out of work, wouldn't I?
This is one of her main things.
That is funny.
I don't like her, but that is funny.
Omar says, considering the demographics of typical Bonnie Blue enjoyers, it would be a hilarious twist of fate if some of the imported voters switched to reform.
Well, did you see that they'd literally hired some guy on indefinite leave to remain to be their candidate for wherever?
From Bangladesh, Deep.
Yeah.
It's like, what are you doing, Nigel?
You're literally threatening to deport that guy?
That's literally your public.
Michael's done his job.
Win this, then you're out.
Make your mind up.
Elect Bangladeshi illegal and then deport.
They're going to become more Christians.
Zia Yousa is going to convert.
I'm not sure about Layla Cunningham.
I think so.
He might need her for mayor.
Yeah, I think I just came to me yesterday, and I just trust my intuitions.
And I was thinking, I bet he'll convert.
Even if it's cynical, he'll convert.
You know, I and her shell eat converts, sincerely.
I don't think she said it's cynical, though.
No, she's not.
And he might not be.
But then, and I went onto YouTube and they just said the Christian fellowship reform thing.
They were doing a church service.
I'm like, reform are going to have to go so Chris because it's going to be in Congress that they've got a Muslim.
Now, the other argument is they need him and it's useful.
So I could be completely wrong.
I just suddenly hit, I thought, I bet I'll bet I'll convert.
Let's see.
I just posted it in case I'm right because it'll look so bring that back, you know, yeah, six months time or something.
Justin says, Bonnie Blue is the Krampus of feminism.
That is funny, actually.
I've got to say.
Like I said, I don't approve of Bonnie Blue at all, but this is amusing.
And Sneeder Chuck says, time to invite her on the Low Seas podcast.
Like, no, thank you.
Together she had it.
Yeah, I know.
You're saying that's slot.
Do you remember back in the 90s or even earlier?
Someone like who's the classic shock joke?
Howard Stern or Anthony and Opie.
They would have porn stars on all the time.
Yeah, yeah.
It's like, why not?
Howard Stern's entire show.
Look at her.
She's beautiful.
Take that up.
She was fined nine pounds.
Nine pounds.
Nine quid.
That's a lot in Bali.
Well, yeah, I'm sure they're like, we're going to get her now.
You know, 500 billion rubles or whatever they use in Bali.
And it's like, what's that?
Oh, nine quid.
Why did she think she could go and do a bang bus in Bali?
It's like, not all the world's completely like this, Bonnie.
I was honestly just like, come on, 30 years in jail, 30 years in jail, 30 years in jail.
We should do that.
We used to put him in general.
Well, Resta, yeah.
Yeah, I know.
In one of those...
Is it not in Indonesia in some places that actually...
Well, you literally...
Just think, corrupting the public morals is still illegal in Britain.
There are laws that she could be charged in this country.
We just need the right man to enact them, Rupert Lowe or someone.
Isn't Indonesia one of those countries where for infidelity and things?
Sometimes they do actually publicly whip women.
I think they think they do.
There's some Southeast Asian Muslim countries that do do that.
Normally it's like Dubai, isn't it?
Girl had drink in public in Dubai, eight years in jail.
Bali, I hadn't heard of as much because a lot of sort of Instagram girls got bali.
I'd never heard like it's nothing like Dubai.
But yeah, I hadn't heard that.
We should bring back flogging here.
We've said this in another.
I'm pro-flogging.
Pro-flogging, yeah.
Both stocks, pro-flogging.
Pro-death.
Jibbit.
Yeah.
The gibbet.
It's a scale.
Oh, I'm totally pro-flogging.
Criminals need to feel pain.
Sophie says, Morgan, are you a racist?
Fuentes, yes.
Morgan, but are you a racist, though?
Funtes, yes.
I am.
Morgan, let me speak clearly.
Are you in fact racist?
Funtes, yes.
Morgan, but you've never slept with a woman.
Fuentes, I've never been cucked.
No.
That's true.
That's exactly how it went.
Sanskrit.
Why are you offering transcripts of the whole economy?
I tell you what, the Groyper curse is genuinely funny, though.
Because everyone's like, oh, right.
What's the Grouper curse?
The Grouper Victory.
The Grouper curse is basically Fuentes' fans always make your life a misery, right?
Well, and okay, yeah, they will.
But Piers was so set up for it because his wife literally cucks him on Instagram.
Literally is a member of Ashley Madison, literally humiliates him every day on Instagram.
He needs a six-week break, pull something about the pool boy.
It's constant.
It's constantly cucking.
Piers Morgan's wife.
Oh, yeah.
Have you not seen this?
No, I knew Harry did a bit, but it's endless cook posts.
It is.
It is wild how bad it is.
And there's so many.
Mate, if my wife had posted one of those things, there'd be a blazing row.
And I would be a divorce.
And I would be demanding if you deactivate your entire Instagram account.
But Piers Morgan is just like all day, every day, getting humiliated by his own wife.
And she's just like, yeah, I can't stand to be around him.
Being married to Piers is one constant eye roll.
She's just taunting him about cheating every day on Instagram.
She's like, don't come home too soon, blah, blah.
And it's not like one joke, it's Carl said, it's loads of it.
And the thing is, once he went after Fuentes' dad, Fuentes had someone come to his house to try and kill him, who killed other people that night.
And his dad could be loser John.
He named his dad's first name.
It's like, what are you doing?
So to me, that does make the wife fair game.
Not the children, because people have excited going after Groypers and started going forward.
Yeah, no, that was not awful.
That's disgusting.
But your wife, when you've gone to someone's dad, I think you have made that fair game.
Her wife is a correspondent in the Telegraph, anyway.
She's a public figure.
So she's got 50,000 followers on Instagram.
She's not a random housewife either.
So she is a public figure and she just uses her public presence to humiliate Piers Morgan every day.
She doesn't sound happy.
No, she's not.
She didn't want to marry him.
There's this great line in one.
She's happy when the pool boys are.
Sorry, go on.
There's this great line in one of the articles where she was like, oh, I was going to meet him with a friend and my friend wanted to meet him because she had a crush on him.
I looked at my friend and said, are you mad for having a crush on Piers Morgan?
And then she ends up marrying him.
It's like.
Okay.
If you're ever in a relationship and you even get the inkling that the other person's properly unhappy, you've got to have a conversation about it.
Not just that, just doesn't respect you.
Yeah, yeah.
You get an inkling of that.
You've got to talk about it and probably need to break up.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
She's not happy.
She doesn't respect you.
You shouldn't be together.
It's that simple.
She's clearly just with him for the money.
Hector says, modern society, white men are evil and deserve nothing and have never accomplished anything besides oppressing others.
Hitler, you're great and you can do anything.
But he's not quite John Peterson, right?
I think there's a bit more to Hitler than that.
Yeah.
Clean your room and some other stuff.
Clean your Reich.
I think there's a bit more to Hitler than just you're great.
But that is in the essence of it.
Why they like him.
Michael says, for being horribly fascist and racist and misogynistic, etc.
Seems a lot of non-white people want to come to the West.
It's like, yes, it does.
Because I guess you get what you deserve.
The fruits of what you've got.
Arizona Desert Rat.
Well done, Callie.
You're victim blaming.
Yep, exactly.
And again, I was enjoying how much Tom was just like, hang on a second.
Why are we having these conversations?
Wow, that woman on LBC threw away the science and validity of psychology and psychotherapy completely.
I know, it's kind of base, to be honest.
Derek says, something to consider.
I'm very sure Europe talks about Napoleon non-stop through most of the 19th century.
Well, yeah, absolutely.
Colleen says, in regards to the price of things, Germany is in a similar boat to England for exactly the same reasons.
The Germans are really starting to feel the pinch.
Yeah, again, when I went to Italy, I was genuinely surprised how little we were spending on meals out.
I was in Florence.
Me and my having a big fancy dinner.
And it's only like 40 euros.
I'm like, Jesus.
Because we'd have three courses, you know, and we're on holiday, you know, for Christ's sake.
A lot of millionaires are flocking to Italy as well.
I mean, London is really the worst.
Like, you go have some sort of craft lago and it's a tenner or 12 quid for one beer, for one bit.
It's unbridled.
So even coming to Swindon, I was like, wow, things are way cheaper in Swindon.
And it's still way more expensive in Swindon than it is in Europe or wherever.
Yeah, isn't it?
So London is particularly insane, just off the charts.
Insane.
We are, of course, out of time, but you can join us in half an hour for Lad's Hour where we're going to be doing an IQ test.
Are we?
Oh, yeah.
No, it's all about this.
It's more of a general value.
It's not a true property.
It'll be like a crazy thing.
But basically, we're going to find out if we're midwits or 130 IQ anglers.
So we have to become, we've got to win this.
One thing.
I got a 137 once, and I never wanted to take another one again.
Like, I'm sticking.
Because you're happy with that.
I've done loads of IQ tests over the years.
I got 142 on one, and I was like, yeah, that'll do.
That'll be the one I take.
Sounds about right.
Yeah, exactly.
That sounds about right.
But also, there are lots of radicalized Zoomers in the chat being like, oh, yeah, well, I'm looking forward to the bo show.
So 5th of January, 8 o'clock in the morning, British time.