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May 4, 2022 - Louder with Crowder
01:21:22
Did Will Smith ATTACK Dave Chappelle?! Douglas Murray LIVE In Studio | Louder with Crowder
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Time Text
June 18th.
Pikes Peak Center, Colorado Springs, Colorado.
prepares for the funniest show on earth.
♪♪ Cool tune, dude.
♪♪ Yeah, I don't think so.
Okay, yeah, here we go!
you This song sucks!
Talk about lame.
Yeah, totally.
I can change it.
I can live with it if you can.
I can live with it if you can.
Don't you remember you told me you loved me, baby?
You said you'd come back around this way again, maybe?
Baby, baby, baby, baby, oh, baby.
I love you.
You need to move on This week in Feminita
I mean, yeah, I hit him like really hard but He wasn't supposed to do anything about it. He went to the
center and take it Me
Uh So
So Driver's car.com
Um So
That's what I know Foreign
You're a stranger, but I'm comfortable I'm gonna speed it up
I Was just checking to see if all my rights were removed
because of Roe v. Wade Nope!
Still good.
Still there.
Still there.
I mean, a few more people have been, you know, assaulted in a Molotov cocktail from yesterday, but it feels like everything is about the same.
So we'll be talking not only about that, the reactions yesterday, the fallout, and what we most likely see taking place throughout the week, but I'll be sitting down here today with Douglas Murray, author of The War in the West.
He is a brilliant guy, also happens to be gay, but that's not all he is.
So much more.
So much more.
And a bag of chips.
Is that still being used?
Yes, it is.
Yes.
And a bag of potato chips.
Yes.
And I do think, man, Karen Carpenter, you guys can, you know what, comment below, name that film reference there for people who don't know what we're talking about.
How did she die?
Another question is, again, we're pinning the top comments.
How has it affected your life?
Roe v. Wade.
Something that affects our life directly is what happened with Dave Chappelle yesterday.
And, you know, it's actually sort of providential that I didn't discuss the conversation I had at Starbucks yesterday.
We were going to do that on Mug Club with someone who went on a tirade against Dave Chappelle before this happened, saying that he was anti-trans and that she didn't like his jokes about sexual assault.
Well, this is what we're seeing right now.
We are seeing a culture of violence because how long can you go on Accusing people of being Nazis, accusing people of being racist, telling women that men want to remove their rights of bodily autonomy before people on the left start treating folks like us like actual Nazis.
You know what you're doing.
And this isn't the first time.
I think something Black Lives Matter, something Barack Obama, that election back then.
And then I think there was a pandemic and more riots going into the left.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Every time election season rolls around.
Every.
Single.
Time.
They gin up riots and they're violent because they cannot protest any other way.
What do you mean by they?
I mean the left.
Why you gotta do a left-right thing?
Okay, show me people on the right right now with Roe v. Wade being violent.
You have to reach back to January 6th with a guy with silly makeup.
Come on.
It's not the same.
It's not 9-11.
So, we'll be talking about that more, and Douglas Murray, I'm really looking forward to sitting down with him.
Of course, if we get removed, because I have no idea what he's going to say, you can tune in Monday through Thursday, 10 a.m.
Eastern, here on Rumble, if you're on YouTube.
So if we don't tell you that we're not doing a show...
It means we're doing a show, it's just not here on YouTube, because we have no idea when we'll be suspended.
And you can just bookmark the page, go check it out.
Of course, Mug Club will be doing another, probably another hour with Douglas Murray today.
All right.
We don't have him here, Gerald A., so we have in his place, and we may keep him in his place, Gerald B., how are you, sir?
My, he is stoic.
Better personality, though.
Well, yeah.
Charmer.
More, I wouldn't say more lively, but easier at parties.
Yes.
More comfortable in his own skin.
Right.
And doesn't ruin everything.
Correct.
Yeah.
Also doesn't double dip.
No.
Gerald A. double dips everything.
Gerald B. just hovers.
Doesn't even do the single dip.
And you're like, well, that's polite.
It's very acceptable.
That's polite as a party guest.
And you know him, you love him.
We'll be talking more about our dates because it relates to Dave Chappelle, but you can go to loudmouthcutter.com slash tour.
He's on the road all the time.
We'll be announcing a major fall tour soon.
Dave, Landa, how are you, sir?
Ahoy!
I'm good.
Can't complain.
Well, you didn't get assaulted on stage.
No, not yet.
Knock on wood!
Who knows?
I mean, I've been, but not recently.
Joke's on you, that's faux wood.
Oh!
You're gonna be raped!
Yay!
I think that's how it works.
Something about rubbing your head in... Is this part of his closer?
Yes!
You're gonna expect more of that!
at latticecraft.com slash tour. Enjoy him in person.
So you watch this. This is this is something that's obviously
near and dear to our heart before we get to Roe v. Wade, the Dave Chappelle situation. And there are larger
ramifications at play here than just Dave Chappelle, just like
we talked about this with Chris Rock and Will Smith. So before
we show the clip, this is probably something I would assume you were on top of immediately when it happened.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, like I've said it on the show before, I had opened for Dave before he went away, and then I opened for him when he came back, and it's just interesting to see, especially now, his last special, he included an entire story about his trans friend who committed suicide, included in there, and that wasn't good enough.
And the reality is, is that just shows that even if you try, To give somebody what they want and to try to, you know, ingrain yourself into their life and show a little bit of empathy, it doesn't matter.
Right.
You will never give anybody what they want.
Right.
It will always be this narrative of it's anti-you.
Comedy, like Scott Thompson from Kids in the Hall always said it best.
Like, comedy is supposed to be dangerous.
There's supposed to be an element of that.
Yeah.
But it's also supposed to be a relief from everything going on in society.
There's supposed to be one thing we can look at.
And a society that loses its sense of humor just loses everything.
There's no reason to even exist.
Well, his last special before that wasn't even a comedy special, it was about George
Floyd and went in pretty hard on Candace Owens, and she wasn't all that upset.
Hey, how many right-wing extremists attacked Dave Chappelle on stage?
We have a good A-B test here, because he's gone after both sides, and really he's gone
after the right for much more of his career than the left.
I mean, at one point he was perceived as being anti-white with Comedy Central, and that was
something where they wanted to step in and sort of take some creative control.
That's not the only reason, but he walked away from a hundred million dollar contract.
So when you talk about being bold and brave, and I was talking with this barista at Starbucks, I never go there.
I ran out of coffee, okay?
So hold your comments.
No, you know what?
Admonish me.
Admonish me.
I shouldn't have been in Starbucks.
All right, you got it.
I should not have been in Starbucks.
The only reason I went was because Duncan, they weren't taking cards at the drive-thru.
Yeah.
Like, we only accept cash.
Well, I hope you accept gold coins.
Yeah.
Duncan.
So I had to go to Starbucks and she was talking about Dave Chappelle, this younger barista, and she was saying, I don't like his trans jokes.
I think that his jokes about sexual assault.
I was like, you really don't know, do you?
That, you know, it's not bold and brave to beat women, for example, in a swim meet.
It's a brave move to walk away from $100 million at Comedy Central, which Dave Chappelle did.
He actually had skin in the game, serious skin in the game.
And had friends take his show.
Yes.
And then the show went to Mencia, and then the show went to... And I think Key and Peele are brilliant.
They're great.
But it was a similar... There was a dark period between that.
Yeah, there was a dark period between that.
Key and Peele were brilliant, but... What are you talking about?
That's a beaner joke!
That's retarded!
My dick, man, it don't work.
Oh, boy!
Hey, there are seven words you can't say on television!
Like, that's not yours.
Yes, it is, bro!
Yeah, it's just, yeah, it really was a sad time.
But he had this brilliant show, and his friends, you know, a couple of his friends still did the show, they still went with it, and even though the Chappelle Show without Dave there, they really tried to keep playing it.
And Dave has always been, I think Killing Them Softly is one of the most brilliant stand-up specials you can ever watch.
It's hilarious, he punches on all sides, and it's very personal and real and funny and good.
He writes three hours of material a week?
He gives everything that has been asked of comedians.
That's the thing with Dave Chappelle.
Whether you agree with him or not, and I disagree with him on a whole lot, everything that is asked of a good comedian, Dave Chappelle, has given and then some.
He writes new material.
He's very even-handed in that no side is safe with Dave Chappelle.
He's not mean-spirited.
He treats his staff well.
He treats his fans well.
Everything that you could ask of Dave Chappelle, he has given you.
He's gracious to new comics.
Well, there you go.
He's coming to you as openers.
Look, it's true, though.
You don't see that with everybody.
Oh, believe me, I know.
Yes.
Try opening for someone in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, who promises you nothing more than a ride back to New York and then leaves you there.
Oh, good people.
Yeah.
I'm the sweet side.
That's when you see a six-figure check and then they hand you 300 bucks.
You're like, oh, yeah, OK.
Thanks.
I got it.
Well, thank you.
This is enough to buy rope.
Yes, perfectly.
Probably not enough.
No.
Maybe, I don't know, maybe if you do a nice sailor's knot, I don't know.
Oh yeah, not rope and gait.
I don't know about knots.
I'm not a nautical expert.
Alright, so this happened, like we just talked about with Dave Chappelle.
I wanted to set that up because this affects us personally, but it also affects you personally.
Uh, yesterday at, I believe it was the Hollywood Bowl, um, Dave Chappelle was attacked on stage.
Now, hold on a second, hold on a second.
Spoiler alert.
It has a happy ending because a protester got the shit kicked out of him.
Not protester.
Let's call these people what they are.
Violent thugs.
Someone stormed the stage to try and attack Dave Chappelle.
Here we go.
No.
Was that Will Smith?
Yeah.
Oh, that's a shame.
Yeah, oh, that's a shame.
Let me be really clear about my position on this.
If that person never walked again and had to sip his food through a straw, I'm not saying that's ideal, I don't wish it upon them, it wouldn't be an injustice.
You and I both know when we are, when you're on stage, especially when someone comes up with a replica gun as he did, you can't know the intent.
You absolutely have to eliminate that threat.
If someone is storming a stage violently, you are, uh, you're taking that risk that you could lose your life.
Because you are putting someone else In fear of theirs.
Just like if you mug someone at knife point.
I wasn't gonna stab him!
You know what?
The victim can't know that.
So, uh, I think that that's a happy middle ground.
I don't know what kind of injuries were sustained, but, you know, I'm hoping that there were some.
Well, also, I mean, clearly it was self-defense.
Dave Chappelle was attacking you with doing his stand-up show when you charged the stage.
But words are violence.
Oh, that's right.
So is silence.
Yeah, so you know what else is violence, is what they did to him.
That was great.
Yes, actual violence.
Yeah, they say all lives matter, and this is my proof that they don't.
Yes, no, that's true.
Honestly, I don't want to just pretend, like, I could care less about the guy.
No.
These are the- he is the exact- Well, you know this because we've- look, look, and by the way, you can go to ladderwithcrowder.com.
You're gonna be in, actually, I don't know if this is a good time to plug it, Copycats!
This week in Springfield, Missouri, Lincoln, Nebraska.
So you know what?
Go out and support Dave, because he's going to be on stage, and you know this too.
I'll be, by the way, I haven't done a comedy club in years.
I'm doing it for the first time in July, whatever that week is, the 18th or 23rd, in Spokane, Washington.
It's not on the website.
It's a great club, dude.
My friend Adam runs it.
It's great.
Well, but it's the reason it's really tough to secure those places.
Yeah.
So we've had to take precautions.
Good luck.
I'll be in Spokane this summer.
You can just find Spokane Comedy Club if you want to go see it.
I'm working out some material for a fall tour, and you'll be doing these dates this weekend.
You know, I told you about this before when I was doing Lesson Left before even the pandemic on stage, and I was saying, well, look, you'll kind of experience it.
There's a different security risk.
And a lot of people think, because a lot of people out there want to act like martyrs on both the left and the right, that it's just, well, okay, you're blowing it out of proportion.
You know now.
Yes.
I'm surprised that that guy got that close.
That would never happen at one of our shows.
Oh, 15 years ago, I remember going into, like, the Deep South to perform, and just what bouncers would do to a heckler, you know, before really people had camera phones.
It was fun to watch.
It was, yes.
But it's sad that this is what it's come to.
That people who are just simply trying to go up on stage, make jokes, have fun, Everybody around you, when you stand up and scream or shout or get upset, without even this.
Right.
They hate you.
Yeah.
They hate you.
You make everyone uncomfortable.
You ruin their entire night.
It's awful.
Just shut your mouth and watch the show.
We even had to deal with a positive heckler one time.
I've had this!
Remember when our show was at, uh... Was it Evansville or was it, uh... It was in Detroit, remember?
Every time it was like, I love you!
We were like, okay, good, calm down.
No, I just want you to know!
We're like...
Stop.
And then someone, the same person that, when you came out, said, They're taking out your greatest fan!
And you're like, I don't give a shit.
Yeah, it's like, at this point, I don't care.
But I appreciate the sentiment.
Right.
No, it's- It's hard to like, I like your shirt!
You're like, I understand, I'm doing a show.
Yes, exactly.
It's like, this isn't, this isn't church.
Yeah.
You can't talk back.
This is not an interactive show.
It's not a film where you like yell out that he's behind you and I get stabbed.
Oh, it's so required to timing, especially in my acts.
Like a lot of my stuff, like I'm not dirty at all, but I'm dark and I talk about my true life experiences.
Yeah.
I need to create attention.
That's the idea.
Careful with your life experiences because it might trigger someone else who had similar experiences.
Oh, that's true.
They might attack me.
Yeah, the PTSD.
And then you might have PTSD and it's a never ending PTSD cycle.
Well, I'm white.
It doesn't matter.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Privileged.
Living up, growing up in Detroit, being arrested 13 times.
You wouldn't know anything about, uh, anything about hardship.
Right.
I can only have PP.
Yes.
It is.
This is where we, and we're going to get to the protests and the prediction that I made yesterday.
How, look, I'm not Nostradamus.
It's just, it always happens.
When you say this person is a Nazi, this person is a fascist, right?
They say, they use the term yesterday, sexual fascism.
By the way, in the comments, no one actually made a case as to what sexual fascism is or certainly how this Roe v. Wade being overturned just having to do with the first trimester in state regulations would affect anyone in a sexually fascist way.
It's so silly I don't even know how to say it.
But you know what?
I'm still willing to hear a case.
But you can say, sexual fascist, Nazi, only so long.
Look, if Hitler were actually here, no one would fault us for punching him in the face.
No.
But they want everyone to believe that you are Hitler, that Donald Trump is Hitler, that now Dave Chappelle is Hitler, and so it makes it justifiable to treat those people inhumanely.
No one's going to watch it change my mind and say, hey, I should go out and kick the ass of every single blue-haired lesbian on campus.
If I had a dollar for every Jewish comedian I know who's been called Hitler in the last three years, I'd retire.
It's like, do you even know who you're talking to?
And then the Jewish comedian would shake you down for it.
I'm entitled to a piece!
Come on!
His agent?
That was at my expense!
How about ten percent?
Fifteen?
What do you say?
When I say 10, that's on top of the 30 that already goes, but that's a transaction fee.
It's out of my hands.
I get the deposit.
I want 5% for PR.
What, now you're complaining?
With all the punching and the joking and the complaining?
The point is, don't assault comedians.
Don't assault people who happen to be pro-life and don't want babies being killed, whether you think it's a life or not.
How about we... This is all coming from one side.
That's why they want to make January 6th such a big deal and it wasn't anywhere near as violent.
As you saw, not only with... As violent as just last night, and it's only going to get worse.
So everyone else out there, by the way, I'm not calling you violent.
Keep your head on a swivel.
Keep your head on a swivel right now, because I predict that this is going to get worse.
And I really, really hope that people see the Dave Chappelle situation.
I hope they understand that it's not just a comedian on stage.
We have to deal with the threat directly, but it's about silencing all of you, and we just can't.
We just... Not another inch.
Not one more inch.
Well, this is the problem with... We were talking about collateral damage.
It's the extremism.
It's not collateral damage when it's just the intent.
Oh yeah, well that's true.
Yeah, it's a fancy way of putting it.
Yeah, I don't think Dave saw him running to the stage and was like, I hope I don't end up as collateral damage!
Literal direct target.
Yes!
Yeah, it's so funny because so many people do point out the black KKK sketch that he did in the early 2000s, and it's almost pointed out so much to the point that it's hacky, but it's insane because it's real now.
Yes.
You're calling him a white supremacist and a Nazi, and at one point it was a parody because it was so absurd it couldn't possibly exist in our culture, and this is when I was 23.
I know.
It wasn't that long ago.
I know.
The way that we've fallen apart as a society in such a small time is mind-boggling.
It really is.
And it's because the extremists have gone so far, and they're constantly being fueled.
They're constantly being fueled by media, everybody else justifying their actions.
And because they've been placated.
Of course.
Too many people have been, oh, I'm scared about that.
You know, we'll talk more about that with Douglas Murray, because I know he has strong opinions on that.
So how do we get here?
Well, let's start with, look, before you get to Dave Chappelle, let's start with the representatives.
Roe v. Wade, obviously.
This is something that was the leak, which we'll talk about.
There's now some new clues as to who might be the leaker.
I put down a towel today.
Yeah, well, you know, I appreciate it, but still, you can't take a towel with you everywhere.
I know.
Wear a snuggie.
Would it kill you to wear a snuggie?
Now, Elizabeth Warren, let's look at the kind of unhinged rant that you hear from our representatives and see if when they talk about Donald Trump-inspiring violence, well, okay, you see what Elizabeth Warren said, you saw what AOC said, and then you see actual violence, right?
You see actual violence take place last night.
Here's Elizabeth Warren, well, as far as I can remember, the most famous non-Native American yesterday, ranting about Roe v. Wade.
This is what the Republicans have been working toward this day for decades.
They have been out there plotting.
terribly cultivating these Supreme Court justices so they could have a majority on the bench
who would accomplish something that the majority of Americans do not want.
69% of people across this country...
Where's the manager?
Across this country, red states and blue states, old people and young people, want Roe vs. Wade
to maintain the SBA.
We need to do that, and we have a right.
This will fall onto young women, women of color, who are victims of This will fall on those who have been raped.
This will fall on mothers who are already struggling to work three jobs to be able to support the children they have.
Well, I am here because I am angry, and I am here because the United States Congress can change all of this.
Gosh, she just moves like old white men dance at weddings, you know?
She just moves like an old lady.
This is the youthful exuberance you can expect from today's democratic establishment.
Couple of things.
First off, the most generous estimate is 1.5 cases when you're talking about abortions are the result of rape.
This comes from USA Today, and that's very generous.
Okay, I think that's overlay A. Yeah, overlay A. USA Today, 1.5%.
That includes rape and incest.
Also interesting that she talks about how this will fall on black women, this will fall on poor women, considering if you understand the history of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, a eugenicist and a racist, they deliberately set up shop in black neighborhoods and targeted poor people because they saw it as a form of eugenics.
So this is something that I guess maybe she doesn't necessarily know her own history.
And isn't it always convenient when they bring up, and I'm not saying that there are no women like this, just to be clear, But the vast majority are not the upstanding citizen who is the upstanding mom who's working three jobs every day and already has a family and simply can't afford another child, therefore she needs an abortion.
That's the scenario they always paint.
The upstanding person who has made no irresponsible decisions, who is not, while we're talking about bodily autonomy, not in charge of her own sexual decisions, could have not prevented this in any way, even though she is of course responsible and took all proper countermeasures Uh, and, uh, happens to have a family already existing and was raped, therefore needs an abortion.
That's, that's who this is going to fall upon, says Elizabeth non-Native American Warren.
Do you buy it?
Is anyone buying it?
That wasn't Dana Carvey?
I'm going to be the master of the Senate.
I don't, uh, I don't care for it.
I just was waiting for her husband to grab a beer out of the fridge and just be like, no.
No, Elizabeth.
You haven't seen a young person since 1976?
I don't, I think the issue is, at least as far as I learned yesterday, is that it's going to the states
and people are misinterpreting this at a massive level.
Nothing's going to change, really, in your day-to-day life, because the challenge was that the states
were regulating abortions in the first trimester, which that's the only thing that Roe v. Wade
expressly forbid against, and so since it went to the Supreme Court, they had to say, is this
actually good law, though? Do states have the right, just like other states have the right to put
their restrictions or no, later on an abortion it's not really going to
to affect you at all. It simply recognizes that abortion is not a constitutional right,
and that's not what Roe v. Wade ever recognized, unfortunately. It was interpreted that way.
I don't want to get too nerdy. You can go to yesterday's show. But here's the thing.
You see these kinds of reactions from the elected representatives, and we'll get to
the riots in a second. We have a montage for you. But of course, it ended up becoming violent
last night. I don't know. I know. What? Who could have possibly seen this coming? Here's
yesterday's show. And if we don't have enough votes to pass it now, we get everybody on
the record, and then we take that to the public in November.
We've got less than 200 days until Election Day, Roe vs. Wade.
And that's the reason for it.
Is intimidation.
It's trying to scare people.
They're trying to gin up riots and protests right now so that people stay home and don't vote.
Or they're trying to convince enough people out there that the right is as extreme as they are, believing that, you know, kids should be put on puberty blockers.
This is what your former vice president said, that affirming your child's gender, meaning not their gender, is one of the most important things you can do.
They're trying to say, look at how extremist the right is.
They're trying to remove your right to abortion.
Let's make sure that message is heard up until and including elections.
This isn't any different than the playbook where Kamala Harris Said they should keep rioting!
And of course you see it, and just like clockwork, you see the protests, and you know it's going to get violent because it's never not.
I also tweeted about it two nights ago, just to be clear, and I don't say this to say, look how good I am at predictions.
It's so that you guys can take it to the bank.
I want you to be able to observe the patterns, where Dave Chappelle shouldn't be a surprise.
I want you to be able to keep your head in a swivel and be on guard and protect yourself when you see decisions like this taking place, or when you see, for example, the 2020 election, most free and most fair of all time.
I want you to understand That you could be in danger.
That's why I tell you beforehand.
And I'm not in the business of making a lot of predictions.
This is one in which I felt 100% confident.
Two days ago on Twitter, I wrote that the, uh, leaker of the draft will undoubtedly be hailed as a hero by the left.
It's a clear intimidation tactic to pressure justices.
And, uh, that of course the left will respond as they always do when things don't go their way with violence and destruction.
You can follow me on Twitter to see more of those because now you're not, you know, if you try and hit the follow button, your cursor doesn't go.
And then follow Vox.
So, uh, this happened yesterday.
Uh, of course, uh, the riots after we broadcast in the morning.
Just here.
Look, these aren't protesters.
Let's watch.
Back off.
You back off.
You back off.
Back off.
You back off.
Get the f*** out of here.
Hey, remember when the left was talking about January 6th, how we need to respect our officers and honor them?
Not these officers.
No, no, that's a white supremacist officer right there.
I mean, he's an olive-toned supremacist.
Sure, he's a little Asian.
And the other one's a little Asian.
You're surrounding a guy.
Look at that.
Bear spray.
Yeah.
Why would you go?
I know.
You're the worst person.
I know.
You're just shitty.
They just sound like demonic banshees.
Well, that's all it is, is there's some rage inside of you, something you haven't dealt with mixed with the fact that you're an idiot that makes you run out and behave like that.
And who could ever possibly insinuate that those people are not pro-life?
And of course, that's not all you're seeing.
You're seeing the violence in the streets.
You're going to see it get worse, I guarantee you.
And of course, this is going to probably play up to the election.
That's what they want.
Because it serves to highlight.
Now, it could backfire, because the left is seen as a party of not respecting rule of law, and you particularly see it with Latino Americans.
In the recent polling, which we talked about yesterday.
But they want this to serve as a highlight, like with the pandemic.
They want something that they can point to every single day, going into an election, going, the Republicans want to take your freedoms away!
And it's not just these protests.
You are seeing people online, of course, calling for actual violent insurrection on social media.
Don't take my word for it.
If they actually do this, yeah.
That would be the time where rioting would be okay.
I got the pitchforks, you get the gas and the torches.
Let's f***ing do that s***.
Stable guy.
You're not forcing... No.
No.
Yes, we're not going to force you to carry a child to term.
Also, instead of a blowtorch, might I suggest a toothbrush?
Yeah, while you're getting the gas, do you want to get an application at the station?
Yes, yes.
Perhaps you could work.
Yeah, that is, you know that's the person who grossly abuses the take a penny, leave a penny bin.
Oh yeah, he definitely, he's taking a nickel.
Yeah, he brings his own cardboard rollers.
Why?
It doesn't affect you.
Whatever.
Yeah.
It's just none of this.
The fact that you can be this angry about something that's not directly affecting you in the moment just shows me that you have no problems.
Maybe that's the issue with an extremely free country.
It's, oh, we have it so good we have to invent stuff to be enraged about.
Right.
Well, and here's the thing.
I know people say, well, that's just one random extremist.
Again, I present to you.
Oh, yeah.
So many random years of extremists.
One random Yeah, one random extreme.
Yeah, it's just an occasion.
But let's bring up a mainstream publication with NBCUniversal.
Vox, one of their subsidiaries.
It's Ian, how do we pronounce it?
Is it Ian Milheiser?
I've only ever seen his name written.
Milheiser?
I don't know.
So this is from Vox, wrote, seriously, shout out to whoever the hero was within the Supreme Court who said, Fuck it, let's burn this place down.
So this isn't, again, we're not talking about fringe elements.
You're talking about a fringe element that, by the way, is not even conservative when you're talking about January 6th
and wasn't even as violent as just last night.
To be clear, the only person who was seriously hurt, who was killed, was a protester.
Now, this is what's happening, right?
The right, we've talked about this, the right is upset over the leak because it's a crime.
The left is upset over the fact that, you know, you might have to go to Colorado to get an abortion well into the third trimester.
And, um, well actually, speaking of leaks, we were gonna say we had some up, but it looks like, uh, have you seen that?
Yeah, on CNN right now.
They have an exclusive.
It seems like they may have found the leaker.
This is CNN Breaking News.
It's a headshot of Toobin.
Yeah, it's Toobin.
Alright, that's enough.
Cut it, cut it, cut it, cut it.
Damn it, cut the audio, Tim.
Cut the audio, damn it!
Shit, sorry.
Wow.
His own headshot.
All that guy does is leak stuff.
The most trusted name in news.
I know.
Sorry about that.
Yeah, well, you know what?
Sorry he doesn't.
We're live.
Wow.
So, let's move on here.
We have some other representatives when we talk about people on the left.
You have Daniel Uhlfelder, a candidate for Florida AG.
He wrote, it's time for revolution.
We have some other leftist groups, all references available at ladderwithcrowder.com.
It is our moral imperative to show up and stop the continuing slide into explicit fascism by all means at our disposal.
And then there's another one.
Liberals will march and chant their way right to fascism.
Peaceful protests aren't enough.
Rage and riot.
There you go.
Rage and riot.
Hey, you know what?
This is where you see... You know what fascism is?
Is if I am here on this program, and we have to be careful just in using the term line in the sand, because the overlords at big tech might interpret that as a call to violence, when they actually allow real calls to violence.
Oh, is that rage and riot?
I, you know, I thought at first, I was like, is it allegorical?
I don't know, because it says peaceful protests aren't enough.
Rage and riot.
I don't know.
It's up to your interpretation.
Exactly.
And I don't know about the blowtorch and pitchforks, what he meant.
I assume that that was figurative.
Yeah, I do too.
He looks like he brushes his teeth with a pitchfork.
Yes, he does.
Yeah, exactly.
You mean this isn't a water pick?
No.
No, no, no.
No, the American got- that's not a water pick.
I wear a hood in the house.
So, look, I want you guys to... I want to see where you are.
For me, the line in the sand is the Ministry of Truth, honestly.
That, to me, is far worse than what's going on here with these riots at the Supreme Court.
I hope that rule of law is enforced.
But that is scarier, because guess what?
It will make it so that people like us can't even criticize violent actions.
And we are directly affected.
Like I said, go to loudearthquaker.com slash tour.
Dave is going to be in Lincoln, Nebraska this weekend.
There are other shows.
I'll be in Spokane, Washington in July.
Big, big tour in the fall costs us many, many, many, many, many thousands in security because of exactly what you're seeing.
But you know what?
I think it's almost, we're almost obligated to not stop.
We have to.
What are we going to do?
Live in our house?
Lock ourselves down for a year and a half?
That worked like a charm.
It'll take two years.
Because we're going to bring him in, and I don't want you to have to... So, you know what?
You can go take your potty break.
Yeah?
If you have to.
Yeah, like the tubing.
And let's go.
Is he here?
He's coming in studio?
Yeah, we'll get him in.
Alright, the author here, Douglas Murray.
We're about to bring him on.
I'm looking forward to it.
All right.
As you can see by the microphone positioning when I do this.
Bye.
That means he's a guest in studio.
This next gentleman, you can find him on Twitter at Douglas K. Murray.
This is his newest book, The War on the West.
It's got a little bit of a Michael Crichton feel to it.
And he is a columnist at the New York Post and The Sun.
And what is, hey, Mr. Douglas Murray, I should say, what is an associate editor at Spectator?
That seems like one of those, that's not a bullshit term, is it?
It's a slightly bullshit term.
It's a roving role.
You can sort of do what you like with it.
Okay.
Roving and what have you.
Yeah.
That was when I was a Fox News contributor.
I found out that that just meant they didn't want CNN to have me.
I was like, well, what do I do?
They said, well, just don't appear anywhere else and we'll give you money.
And I said, okay, and that's what means contributor?
I didn't know this.
I thought I had to contribute, which I didn't.
For people who don't know, and I want to get into a few things that I just find very interesting as far as your point of view, what's this book about, The War in the West, specifically?
The War in the West is sort of a culmination of three books I've written, starting with A Strange Death of Europe about migration, then The Madness of Crowds, which was about all the crazy stuff going on with trans and women's rights and gay rights and all that stuff and then this is this is a sort of culmination of it which is just basically my best attempt to try to explain what I think is actually going on in our time which is essentially a war on everything that's ours and an admiration and love of everything that isn't so that you know
We admire all traditions apart from our own.
The cool thing to do is to love things from other places and to hate everything from our own civilization.
Yeah.
So that, you know, we're now, I do it in four parts, the war on white people, which I think is an absolute catastrophe waiting to happen, where you tell the majority population that they're appalling and have nothing to be said for them and they have no reason to be proud.
And you say this as an obscenely white person.
I am obscenely white.
Yes.
I mean, I'm English and Scottish.
Yes.
No, I mean, I mean, yeah, it's as bad as it comes.
Also, I don't know if you qualify as a ginger?
Not quite.
Not quite.
No.
But blue eyes?
But if I sought from minority status, I could.
But no, the basically, I mean, I think that this this thing of, right, only one group you're allowed to be racist about, and that's white people.
So I described that the war on white people.
The War on Western History, which is obviously just, we've decided to ransack everything in our past, take it all down, all the heroes, there's no one left, and completely rewrite all Western history to say it's only about slavery, racism, and colonialism, because of course the rest of the world did nothing wrong at all in history.
No, I mean, I don't know if you've seen, they're going gangbusters in North Africa.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Better and better.
Yes!
And then the third one is the War on Western Religion, which is Not just our Judeo-Christian religion but the secular religion as well.
I mean the war on enlightenment values which is just unbelievable and some people might not realize just how advanced that is.
And then the war on Western culture where just every single thing that's been produced from the buildings to the art, the music of the West is also just looked at through this anti-racism lens.
You know it's all terrible because it's created by those By people who are guilty of those three terrible things, being white, being male, and being dead.
Yes.
And as you know, it's particularly unforgivable to die, because none of the critics who attack the dead white males will ever experience that.
I thought you were going to say if you're a kamikaze.
Let's do a kamikaze.
We'll get into the morality sense of it.
I thought you were going to say being white, being male, being straight.
Well, that's obviously a particular sin.
Yes.
I mean, it's an abnormal state of affairs.
Exactly.
Unforgivable.
Well, if we're going, we're talking about sort of the birth of modern civilization, you know, Western civilization, if we're going back to even like Rome, you know, lots of gay stuff.
For sure.
Before my time.
Yes.
I've heard talk of it.
The Greeks.
The Island of Lesbos.
We were talking about this recently.
The history.
Very different historical lesbians.
It's not just a bunch of masculine women who shop at Orvis.
A few years ago there was a Channel 5 documentary in the UK.
It's not our finest channel.
Is that Channel 4?
Is that your finest channel?
I don't know.
It's the last channel on Terrestrial, and they made a documentary called Lesbians Go Mad in Lesbos, and a whole ship of lesbians landed on the island of Lesbos as if they were going to commune with their place of origin.
Of course, the poor locals just had this horror.
They live in a very charming island, and suddenly these women are going around waving dildos in the street.
I know, I just imagine there's some beautiful, you know, sun-kissed Mediterranean woman oiling herself on the beaches and then just someone runs in, crushing a natty ice can, like, let's do this!
I'm like, oh god.
Yeah, it was basically that.
Or the British are here, I don't know.
Were they English?
I would imagine that the Americans were.
Most of the worst tourists are British, I like to think.
Really?
Oh yeah, sadly, yeah.
Well, because we always hear from the Brits about how the worst tourists are Americans.
Yeah, but we do violence better, I think.
That's true.
Yeah, mindless violence.
Yeah.
Well, there's nothing like a good soccer riot.
Exactly.
Except we have good hockey riots in Canada.
We always knew when I was raised in Montreal, if the Canadians won the Stanley Cup, there would be a riot.
Right.
And if they lost, which was always in my lifetime, they also would riot.
Right.
Um, so, okay, I want to, because you just covered a lot of ground there.
Let me ask you this off the bat, because I know people watching will have a question on this.
You define yourself, or I have heard you describe yourself, I don't want to misread, as a Christian atheist or an atheist Christian, am I right?
Yeah.
What does that mean?
Well it means I'm not a believer in God, or at least I find it very hard to believe in God.
I'd say maybe agnostic is better, but obviously I'm a Christian because I was born in a Christian civilization, a Christian country, brought up a Christian.
So I mean you might, there are people who lose their faith or don't have faith and are Jewish or Muslim, but that's not the same thing as a Christian atheist.
Well, I was going to say, because with, you know, for example, Jews, you can be a Jew through religion, through faith, through ethnicity, or through culture.
Sure.
Whereas Christianity is primarily, you know, it's a decision, the idea of salvation, the idea of making a decision.
Yeah.
So that's one thing I know.
And look, I'm not trying to start this in a contentious way, but I know some people will take... Be as contentious as you like, honestly.
I can take it.
Well, I know.
But I do... Reputationally.
No, I see it as someone who's Not necessarily a Christian, believing it in the literal sense, the way that all Christians do, but a Christian sympathizer, like you're talking about, how it acts as the foundation for Western civilization, the Judeo-Christian values, as opposed to the edgy atheists who would just say, well, if I need a god to tell me not to murder or steal, then... Sure.
No, I mean, I've known all the edgy atheists, as you call them, and I mean, I just think it's absurd not to concede the fact that much of what we have in America, like Britain, Canada, is derived from Christian ethics, Christian ideas.
Why deny that?
I mean, you might not believe it but you shouldn't deny it because it's obvious.
I mean, what are human rights but a kind of derivation of a form of spilt Christianity?
There's no reason to have human rights.
They're not self-evident.
So I think that, you know, you should just concede these things where they're true, and even if they're against your interests.
And obviously, atheists are against their interests very often, but nevertheless.
And I also say that it's important to concede this because you should try to work out, I think, whether you want to engage in sawing off a branch of a tree that you're sitting on.
Yeah.
And a certain amount of atheism does consist of that, I think.
Yeah.
I think it's the, like I've always said, it's not the extremes where people say, if I need a guy to tell me to not murder, well, first off, that's also not necessarily universal.
Murder is not killing, right?
We define murder separate from killing, but what we define as murder is just the byproduct of killing in some of the countries.
But what about the other things like, you know, not committing adultery?
What about, like, you know, for example, you know, if you talk like Saudi Arabia, allowing women to drive.
You know, things like that, they're not universal values, and that's often taken for granted.
But I think some people would just say, well, okay, it's tough to say Christian atheists.
They would define it as atheists, but who's Christian sympathetic.
Maybe.
I mean, if I was Jewish, it would be more straightforward because I'd just be a practicing Jew who didn't believe.
Well, but that's because you would be born Jewish ethnically.
It would be like, let's say you converted to Judaism, you know, because you had a lady who was Jewish, but then you left her and then you left, but you called yourself Jewish.
It's like, well, but you're not Jewish.
Racially.
Ethnically.
I mean, Christianity is obviously a different matter, but I just think that if you, also if you not only recognize that it's where you've inherited some of your ideas or many of your ideas from, but also ideas that you like, why would you go to war with them?
I mean, this was a position I arrived at some years ago.
The philosopher Roger Scruton is a great friend.
He also wrote this, at the very least don't war on it.
Why would you war on something whose products you like?
Yeah.
So I do have a slightly heretical atheistic standpoint.
Okay.
Did you always feel this way with Christianity?
No, no, no.
As a Christian, very... No, I'm saying did you always feel like it had ideas that you liked?
Oh, yeah, of course.
Well, I mean, I liked... This is one of the things I say in The War on the West is, I mean, I like the civilization I'm from.
Right.
I like the culture I'm from.
I more than like it.
I love it.
And I don't think it has to be apologized for.
I think it's very unusual.
In historic terms, as well as in the world today, and we would be very, very stupid if we assumed that the kind of civilization that we like is by any means the default civilization.
It just isn't.
I mean, you know.
That is interesting, actually.
bring that up, that it's very atypical historically for, lack of a better term, the winning culture.
Well, really, look at the British Empire, right? The world's predominant superpower.
You let your number one draft pick get away. We left you guys one century to become the
only superpower of the next. Sorry, but sooner or later, we've got to fly the coop. That
being said, when people talk about the United States being an evil empire, I always find
it odd when they say, we need to stop with the nation building. It's too expensive. Well,
second, people look to the British Empire. It's not expensive.
It's profitable.
That's what an empire is.
You take the resources.
We're the only country who go in and then apologize for not doing a good enough job.
That's why I went into Iraq and gave all the oil contracts to the French.
Which I don't understand.
I don't know why we didn't just take it.
That's the one thing, I don't know if you, in the UK, you know, but I've talked about this with Donald Trump.
He forced people to pay attention by saying things that were reasonable and the media would say was offensive.
So, I don't know if you remember his quote where he said, I would only go if we take the oil and the media's like, can you believe he said we would take the oil?
And people at home are like, yeah, we're not.
I thought we were.
I thought it was a war for oil.
That is the norm historically and it's only us that thinks it's unusual and odd.
There's a graph in one of Steven Pinker's books about average deaths by violence in society and shows, you know, as I point out in this book, contrary to the sort of Western idea that, you know, you have, you know, you have guilty people in the West and everyone else is innocent, including, you know, all native people.
They're always innocent.
If you look at the stats on it, like, 60 more percent of, like, in native populations among tribes, people in Africa and elsewhere, the males die violent deaths.
Yes.
This is compared to, like, a small single-digit percentages of males dying violent deaths in Europe in the 20th century, in our worst century.
Right.
And a good portion of those, I don't know if you know this, was from nagging.
So it's sort of, yeah, from nagging from the wife that died, yeah.
I don't know if it was the Black Hills.
There was a specific area where they were talking about giving the land back, and I did some research into it.
No, no, it's a very good point.
When people talk, you know, that goes to the Native American idea of giving, people say
give the land back.
Like for example, I think, I don't know if it was the Black Hills, there was a specific
area where they were talking about giving the land back and I did some research into
it.
Mm-hmm.
Run by four or five tribes who, by the way, were killing, enslaving, raping, scouting, so who do you give it back to?
It's like the conquistadors point.
I mean, obviously the conquistadors did some terrible things, but the society they walked into was not heavenly.
No.
Do you know how many conquistadors there were?
There was only a few hundred.
Yeah.
It was only a few hundred, so do the math.
It was all of the other enslaved and pillaged and oppressed people who said, we're going to take our chances with the guys in the shiny hats.
And I don't know if you saw this, but just the other day they found another pile of, you know, sacrificed bodies somewhere in Central America.
And it's a sort of reminder of something that people in America have forgotten, which is that these These sort of allegedly, you know, more native, more rights to the land's people, you know, they weren't great.
And I don't know if you saw, but like a year ago, the California School Board had this thing where they got in religious education lessons, they got the kids to do chanting to the Aztec gods.
Yeah.
I write a bit about it a bit.
It was fantastic because they were like, oh, um, you know, very unpronounceable name, um, uh, make us warriors for social justice.
And I looked up the relevant god and it was the god of child sacrifice.
Yes.
Well sometimes you have to sacrifice a child in order to throw off the chains of systemic racism.
Yes, well, this seemed to me, I mean I thought, and also if this God was actually true and was summoned from the dead, he'd be very surprised if the California school board asked for him to come back.
And I know you're sort of an agnostic, atheist, Christian, so sympathizer, but in the Christian worldview, if you're praying to the God who sacrifices children, that's a demon.
Right, yeah.
But that's just, you know, I don't want to get off on technicalities.
Generally speaking, as Christians, God's who require, you know, regular sacrifice, you know, the blood of children.
You're probably praying to the wrong guy.
Absolutely.
And we have got this very weird view in the West that That it is just us that do bad things.
Right.
And the rest of the world.
It was something that Rousseau sort of started in the 18th century.
You can blame him.
That other people, by the way, people like him didn't know what people were like beyond Europe.
He'd never gone further than Switzerland.
Right.
And he had all these views on, you know, native peoples.
There were actually people who followed Rousseau's beliefs.
I give an example of a French crew on a ship.
They find some Maori people and because they followed Rousseau they believe that the locals are going to welcome them.
They all get butchered and eaten.
Yes.
And the ones that get away think less of Rousseau afterward.
I can imagine.
That was a disappointment.
We were told they were going to welcome us with honey and virgins and they killed us all later.
Well, one sadomasochistic genocidist doesn't spoil the bunch.
No.
And also you shouldn't tar them all with that.
No, exactly.
Just because...
It was a cannibalistic episode right there.
Exactly, it's an episode.
It's the temporary cannibal plea.
I was, look, I was temporarily a cannibal.
I'm no longer, your honor, and I think I should be free to go.
Well, good enough for me.
Which brings me to my, you know, my question, and actually I think you've already answered.
I was going to say, I notice you don't say like, like Muslim atheist, and that's largely because half of you would have to kill the other half.
Muslim-atheist is trickier.
There are some now.
When I first started writing about Islam, about 20 years ago, I was told there was an event at a university in London where somebody stood up and said at an event, I was born a Muslim but I'm a non-Muslim now, and the whole place went bananas and the event had to be called off because everyone started attacking each other.
I can imagine.
By now, by the way, interestingly enough, by the last five years or so I've discovered actually it's not uncommon at events for people to publicly or certainly afterwards, you know, sort of semi-publicly announce that they are a non-Muslim now, that they're a Muslim atheist.
And that actually gives me some hope because it suggests that people are more free to leave the religion if they're in the West than they used to be.
Right.
And that actually the sort of freedoms that other people enjoy in the West to go in and out of religions as they see fit could actually be allowed to apply to Muslims as well, which is all... Yeah.
No, a lot of people convert to Islam in the United States in prison.
That's true, just so you know.
They say like, ah, it's one of the fastest growing religions.
Yes, if you count cell block D. I have a friend in the UK, a journalist called Julie Birchall, and she some years ago said, we were talking about the issue of women who convert to Islam, which is a very interesting point.
Well she said, she said, Douglas said, they're the same stupid bitches what write letters to prisoners who've mass-murdered people and asked to marry them.
So there is a certain type of woman who writes to convicts and wants to be their lover.
So it's the same thing.
Yeah, I write that to female inmates, but it's just a conjugal visit, so I just want to put a smile on their face.
Well, of course, now we know, from the trans prisoners that we were told wouldn't ever happen, that women can be impregnated by fellow female inmates.
We had that episode removed from YouTube, where we discussed that story.
And they removed it, so now we have to be careful, because they said, oh, you can't do that, because that would insinuate... It's like, hold on a second, I didn't say all trans people are inmate rapists.
I said this one was.
Yeah, it's like the woman with a penis who screwed the wheelie bin in Sheffield in the north of England the other day.
Did you see that?
The wheelie bin?
Oh yeah, wheelie bin.
It's a trash can.
Oh, is it a trash can?
You call it the wheelie bin?
She did.
I don't know, is that a term in England?
The wheelie bin?
Yeah, but it's not commonly put together with the word sex toy or her penis.
You don't usually have sex with it.
Most people don't.
They just take the trash out in it and they leave it alone.
Requires some outside the wheelie bin thinking.
But this woman with a penis did indeed use the wheelie bin as a sex toy.
In case YouTube is watching, that's, that's fine.
Well, it's not entirely out of the purview of its role as a deposit box.
It's, it's not very ladylike behavior.
That's true.
But it is a woman doing it.
Yeah.
Stephen.
Some would debate you over, you know, this small fact of the cock.
So let me ask you about this, because actually I do want to talk about Islam and the West a little bit, then we can move on to kind of talk about not just Islam in the West, but also, you know, you sort of talked of I mean, if people want to use the term sort of original sin, but really implicit bias and the idea of the sins of our fathers and slavery.
And that, to me, has been very interesting.
There've been quite a few pieces of writing on the North African slave trade, the Mediterranean, all that.
Like you just said, listen, I want to be clear, slavery, bad.
I think we both agree, right?
I don't want to put words in your mouth.
And nobody has done it for a long time in our families, if they ever did it.
I don't want to misspeak.
I do have a great, I do have a grandmother who was just kind of a bitch.
So I don't know.
Yeah.
So I don't know.
She's dead.
She's fine.
So I did want to talk about that.
A lot of people, we missed this because we were discussing the Libs of TikTok story while this was happening.
But it was amazing to see the actual surge in search traffic.
Meaning people were looking for this story, and it's very hard to find accurate reporting on the story.
These are, we have a, I think we have a montage here regarding the Islamic riots in Sweden for people who don't know.
If I'm not mistaken, it's someone running for office who allegedly burnt, burned a Qur'an.
Did burn a Qur'an.
Yeah, well I was just saying it so that people don't bomb me, but thanks.
I mean, I think you're allowed to say somebody burned a Qur'an without people burning you.
Right, of course.
I'm also quite sure that I've accidentally burned a Qur'an.
Have you?
Strike anywhere matches, Qur'an not a good place to start.
Do you remember there was also a flushing the Qur'an down the lavatory story some years ago?
Yes.
It was claimed at Guantanamo Bay that an American officer had flushed the Qur'an and my friend Mark Stein wrote a piece the next day titled My Qur'an Won't Flush.
Yes!
He said there's no way it can get round the U-bend.
No, well, we also did a sketch where, you know, we, uh, well, Bob Ross painted Muhammad.
Oh, yes.
And that one got us into quite a bit of trouble.
I remember that.
I didn't care very much.
So here we have a clip of the riots that were taking place in Sweden over the burning of a Quran.
and then we'll get back to it for context.
I'm gonna go get my phone.
Yeah.
Fury at the authorities.
The police targeted by protesters in this residential area in Norrköping.
Several vehicles were set on fire.
At least 17 people were arrested.
Flashpoints have stemmed from a series of organized rallies since Thursday led by the leader of a Danish far-right political party currently on tour in Sweden.
Inflammatory events that include the actual burning or threat of burning of the Quran.
And it's War in the West, author Douglas Murray.
I assume it's available on Amazon for as long as they... Absolutely.
Were you about to say something right from this video?
No, I was just going to say, I actually mentioned that Quran burning always leads to that.
If you remember in America when that Florida pastor said he might burn a Quran.
He got a call for David Petraeus asking him not to.
If you're in America and you want to burn a crown, you can get straight to the top of the Pentagon within hours.
By contrast, I think two years ago it was reported in some of the press that some Bibles
had been burnt in Portland, Oregon at an Antifa protest.
And this was immediately denounced by various people as being Russian propaganda and much
more.
And eventually I cited the New York Times looks into it finally and says, well, it is
possible that some Bibles were burnt, but they were only used as kindling.
But, like, nobody goes bananas over that.
Nobody... I mean, they've already burnt down Portland, so you don't need to burn it down again.
No, exactly.
I was going to say, they must not have been looking hard for kindling.
I think they've run out.
Just go to the old courthouse, just pull off the old north wall.
I tell you, there is not much left to destroy in that.
So anyhow, but the point is, is it nobody in the West, no Christian goes nuts about this?
No.
It's only with the Qur'an, it's only with Islam.
Well, it's also very physical, right, when people, this is also why the idea of, you know, dipping bullets in like baking grease, when people used to talk about this in the war on terror, it's because when you are dealing sometimes in that situation with But we have in most of the West, we've completely just agreed to the terms of Islamic blasphemy.
So they believe in a very physical manifestation of heaven that you go to the body you have here
And so the Quran is very important to its very physically holy whereas for us. It's just it's just another it's a
communication device for we Don't yeah, God isn't the Bible. It's just a thing
But we have we have in most of the West we've completely just agreed to the terms of Islamic blasphemy. I mean we
just have yeah Yeah.
Some years ago, I should have just mentioned Mark Stein, but we used to speak each year, every five years, at the reunion of the Danish cartoons controversy.
By the last time there was an anniversary, I think the 10th anniversary, not only would none of the papers, including the paper that originally published the cartoons, publish them again, But the only place in Denmark, which it was safe, because they'd had another attack on a free speech event just before, the only place safe enough to have our event was the Danish Parliament, because it's the only building with walls thick enough to withstand a bomb.
So walls work.
So walls work.
Castle walls like those of the Christiansborg in Copenhagen.
But the point is that we've basically conceded this point, that you shouldn't insult Mohammed, you shouldn't draw Mohammed, you've got to go on those terms, you've got to call him the Prophet and all that stuff, and they've made the price of not doing that quite high.
And occasionally people like this Danish politician try to make this point, it's just, you know, it's never done in an ideal way.
But, you know, it's always that thing.
Well, see, that's the difference, I think, between just trying to, and I totally support his right to do it, just trying to incite some sort of controversy, whereas I did the Quran challenge back in 2009.
I did a Three Stooges routine of Muhammad beating his two wives, his six-year-old wife, and we did the Bob Ross.
Now, the idea there is, that's pretty funny, the idea was Bob Ross is so tone-deaf he doesn't realize he's all jovial, he's painting Muhammad.
To me, that's funny.
But I don't need to agree with the reasoning that anyone is doing it, but I will say it makes it very difficult for people like me to stand out there and just treat Islam as you would any other religion in the realm of comedy when everyone else is terrified of it.
It makes it really difficult.
It really does.
Like you say, it creates this almost mass hypnosis.
There's a terrific Dutch comedian called Hans Tewin.
And he has a line in one of his recent shows, he said, he said, people say to me, why don't you take the mickey out of Islam like you do with other religions?
And I say to them, but what is funny about Islam?
When I think of Islam, I just think of joie de vivre.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, very well.
They're they're happy folk.
I mean, and if not, you know, they could the good thing is they get to take it out on their their broads.
So it relieves the old tension to loosen the shoulders.
Do you think As someone who defines yourself as a Christian atheist, we can discuss that there on Mug Club on the disagreement, but going with that premise, do you think that Islam, meaning actual Islam, not people who've left the faith or sort of secularists who at one point were Muslim,
Dr. Ben Carson got into a lot of flack for this where he said that the Quran is not compatible with the Constitution, but that was effectively echoing the idea that the Quran and Sharia law are not compatible with Western civilization.
Do you think that's an accurate assessment?
Well, it's not compatible if you were to try to put the laws of the Qur'an in place, obviously not.
Right.
I mean, obviously not.
But I think there might be a misunderstanding about that, which is, can it work underneath the law of the land?
Well, obviously it does, because lots of Muslims are just peaceful and go about their daily life with their beliefs.
It would only be if you tried to impose the laws of it on America that, of course, it wouldn't work.
But that brings us to a problem, doesn't it?
Anywhere that you have a majority Muslim, it does become the law of the land.
And so that's where people talk about... Well, that's what I got into some trouble about over a couple of books about the strange death of Europe was
that it was subtitled Immigration, Identity and Islam and what everyone, what my
critics hated about the book was that I kept coming back to this point which is
that when a number of believers get above a certain level the question of
compatibility stops becoming abstract.
You have to hope that you've got lots of unbelievers, or not devout people, because if you were to get a certain percentage of devout people, then obviously the customs of your own country are going to change.
And they'd have to because the people have changed.
Right.
But that's among all the unpopular points I've ever managed to make in my life.
Going into that one is one of the least popular.
People hate the idea that somebody moves from one country to another and doesn't immediately take on all of the values of the country they've moved to.
Right.
Well, that's the issue here, really, in the United States, right?
They're an extreme minority, Muslims, compared to the general population.
But the concern is, anywhere you look where there is an Islamic country, Sharia does become the law of land, which is very different, by the way.
Judeo-Christian principles, and I think that you, I don't know if you read about it in this book, but I know that you've talked about it at length, inform The values that are the foundation of the law of this country.
There isn't a biblical prescription for the laws of a society that might consider itself a part of modern Christendom.
The Koran is different because it is just as much a set of political beliefs, values, and a set of rules as it is a religion, and that's why it's so different.
Yeah, that's always been a big problem.
It's a political project as well as a religion.
People can avoid the political project and just be involved in the sort of spiritual part.
But, yeah, I mean, it's a case in majority Muslim countries across the Middle East and the Far East that, you know, if you actually try to enact what's there, it's not a happy situation.
I don't know if they can, though.
I don't know with Islam compared to, you know, a lot of sort of the Eastern, whether it's like Buddhism, Taoism, or, you know, what I very, you know, colloquially refer to as the inconsequential religions.
That, uh, you know, I don't know that you can just sort of do tantric yoga and, you know, okay, it's just something I dabble in.
Islam is not always something you dabble in, because they say if you dabble and you go in and out, the prescription is for you to be killed.
Well, most Western people don't understand that, you see.
Most Western people, again, they think that, um, you might do Islam, you might do yoga, it's kind of the same thing.
Right.
And, uh, there's been a certain amount of my life when, yeah, that's not the case.
Yeah.
Whereas I can be a Christian and still touch my toes.
They're not incompatible.
Well, you know what, before we go to the Mug Club Extended, he asked me, he came in, he was very polite, he said, now, is that colored water?
I said, no, that's hard liquor.
We're not subject to the FCC rules, so afterwards, yeah, you'll get me to do a nice, what is it, happy baby pose?
I don't know.
One thing I do like, though, I was reading about this, Islam, you know what, look, credit where it's due, child rapists get crucifixion, execution.
Come on.
That's net positive.
That one's not bad.
For child rapists, I'm just saying.
I mean, I don't know.
I mean, I'd take, like, burning them in a cage.
Right.
Let me ask you this, though, while we're talking about throwing them off a rooftop.
I'm just saying, something.
Something for child rapists.
The rehabilitation rate is very, very low.
But a lot of people, while we're sort of talking about this sin of Have you been watching on HBO, Winning Time, the Lakers story?
It's pretty good, apparently not very accurate, but one of the players was going on this monologue in the show.
He was speaking to the actor who portrays Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and talking about how this sin of slavery in America and how they look at black people and how, you know, my mother used to say, Mom, My mom used to say, God loves you, but I would say, why did we start at the bottom?
And she said, well, that's because God loves white people more.
And it was a screed about slavery.
And I'm sitting there going like, okay.
Almost any film.
I've heard that in every film I've seen in the last 10 years.
Well, I didn't say it was particularly deep.
No.
But it's in sort of the public mind right now.
And every time I watch it, I go, well, yeah, that's terrible.
Obviously, if you're talking about slavery, you're talking about ancestors who grew up on a cotton, in the cotton fields, picking cotton.
But it's still happening.
There are 40 million slaves in the world today, which is more than there were in the 19th century.
Yes, exactly.
And that's a number that people didn't believe when we make our references publicly available because they thought that can't be right.
Sort of like there are more trees now than at any point in the 19th century.
And when people understand that a big reason for that is modern sort of mega farms, so a lot of the land after, you know, when really we were a sedentary lifestyle, right?
You had the agricultural revolution before the industrial revolution.
Everyone had a farm.
Now very few people have a farm.
That's taken up with trees.
So when people do a little bit of diving into it, they go, okay, I guess that makes sense.
But particularly the Islamic world.
Slavery.
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Well, I make this point, and I'm very keen to get this out there.
Because Americans, in particular, think they're uniquely guilty, and everyone else was uniquely innocent.
They don't know that every single civilization in history had slavery of some form.
and if we start to tear down everything that was created by slaves, we're going to have to like
remove the pyramids in Egypt. I mean that was not done by people who are paid a fair day's wage.
No, the aliens don't accept minimum wage.
They, phew, that's not in California.
I watched the history chat.
But you know, there's this thing in America where not only are people injected with this idea that
they specifically did it, but they also have no context of what happened in the rest of the world.
They don't know that if up to 12 million people were taken across the Atlantic in the transatlantic slave trade, most not to America remember, but maybe up to 18 million, 1.8 million, were taken east in the slave trade of Yes.
Black Africans selling their brothers and sisters eastwards to the Arabs.
Why do we not know about this?
Because the Arabs castrated all the males so there would be no next generation of black Africans in their area.
Right.
This was actually a genocidal slave trade, which the transatlantic slave trade for all its appallingness was not.
It did not intend to annihilate the people.
Right.
Which to make them force them to work.
But I mean, nobody knows this about the Arab slave trade.
And when I make this point, people say, oh, that's whataboutery.
It isn't whataboutery.
It's what we used to call context.
And in an era where the American public are being told, you know, reframe your founding date to 1619 so you can feel more guilty.
Um, let's, you know, talk endlessly about something that was settled two centuries ago as if we still haven't addressed it.
I mean, you get these ignoramuses now who come out in America and go, we've never had this discussion.
We had this discussion again and again.
Problem is you don't know about it.
Right.
And it's, things not happening Is not the case just because you're ignorant.
Exactly.
But I'm very keen that people get out of this because this thing of saying to one group of people, and again that the majority, you're guilty.
You have to say no.
No American life today is guilty of the slave trade.
By the way, also, they don't have inherited guilt.
If we're going to go into the concept of inherited guilt, let's do inherited guilt for everybody.
Let's go and find who in Africa is guilty because their ancestors sold their neighbors.
Let's find out who in America is descended from slaves and slavers.
If you want to do this, this is going to be the ugliest damn exercise you've ever tried.
They're talking now about reparations again in the United States without realizing, you know, this is a country where it appears to be outrageous to demand somebody shows ID when they go to the voting booth.
And they're talking about working out who is owed reparations for something that happened to their ancestors 200 years ago?
Right.
I can't stress it enough.
Americans and others have to stop falling for this thing of inherited guilt.
You're not guilty for anything you didn't do.
You're guilty for things you did yourself, but again going back to the Christian ethic, the sins of the father.
The sins of the father ethic is deemed to be wrong for all sorts of reasons, but the sins of the great great great great could have possibly done something father ethic No way.
No way.
No.
I think that's a very good point, and I just think the context is important.
I think, you know, you just said, you used the term ignoramuses, which is a much nicer way of saying assholes.
Wankers also does that.
Yes, wankers.
Though that has a sexual connotation.
You needn't have a sexual connotation.
Well, I prefer to have a sexual connotation.
But it is one of those situations where, like you said, these people are ignorant.
There was recent polling.
I don't remember when we addressed it in the show.
The reference will be available in some show map.
But that showed, you know, Generation X and older millennials were the least racist of the generations.
And then younger millennials in Generation Z were, and by racist, I mean willing to identify
people primarily through race, being racially conscious, believing, perceiving discriminatory
slights based on race, more than Generation X or older millennials.
Because in our generation, we've talked about this, I did grow up in, and people say it's
just because you're white.
You know, because I had friends who were black, and we watched the same show.
Right, same here.
Same here.
It was actually colorblind.
Yeah.
And you didn't say, my black friend.
No, you didn't.
And then you have a gap, and now you have kids where it's been revived.
And like I said, so they don't know that this conversation has taken place, and we sort of said, all right, so now we get, okay, Fresh Prince.
The biggest name in all of cinema and television is going to be Will Smith.
And we're going to be watching and consuming black culture.
I think, I mean, for crying out loud, you look at the collaboration efforts that have taken place between hip-hop artists And punk rock artists, I think, was it Pearl Jam?
I don't know, anyway.
There's a generation that's got a totally wrong view of what this society is, what the Western societies are.
You know, when I was growing up in Britain in the 80s, you know, the main evening news was read on main channel by a very famous black female broadcaster, and the main news on the other channel was read by a famous black male broadcaster.
We didn't lack black representation at all.
We were perfectly used to it.
This generation has come along now that doesn't know any of this.
They don't know that, like, they think that black people were completely absent from the public square until they came along.
Yeah.
And it's flat and wrong.
You can prove now that in America in particular you have a generation that is absolutely ill-informed about the country they're in.
Look at these cases of Of moral panics on campuses.
I mean, you'll be familiar with them.
But I mean, I do a section on the book on this.
There's one of the universities, somebody says they've spotted a member of the KKK on campus.
The campus goes into lockdown.
This is in 2016.
The campus goes into lockdown.
They find the person and it turns out to be a Dominican monk carrying a rosary.
The person who spotted the KKK person claims he was carrying a whip.
It's a Dominican monk with a rosary.
This turns out, this is not a one-off.
This is quite common in the last decade in American campuses.
They go into lockdown.
One goes into lockdown when a pair of shoelaces is found, a wet shoelace is found hanging on a hook and somebody says this is an attempted lynching.
It isn't!
Somebody found a shoelace and they put it up there.
My point is this happens again and again and again.
And why is it?
It seems that...
There is a part, at least, of this generation that's coming up that believes that they live in a country where the KKK routinely gather on campuses or just wander alone, you know.
When I was in Seattle a little while ago, they had the Whole Foods, what was left of it, had a great big sign up saying, racists are not welcome here.
Well, we didn't think that it was a gathering place for the Klan.
What's the view you've got of your country that is so off?
No, and you know who's probably more responsible for, uh, racists in 2022 than the Klan?
Tyler Perry.
And I'm only saying that half-joking, because obviously the content is crap, but, you know, we had, uh, uh, Family Matters, we'd have Fresh Prince of Bel- it was very mixed.
And now, you've siloed BET and Tyler Perry, this is the Black Channel.
Right.
And a big part of that is you don't want to culturally appropriate.
And so you have people who are afraid to take part in each other's cultures.
And so really now we've created, just like we have with music, just like we have with television in general, right, sort of the consumption of entertainment, everything is fragmented.
We've sectioned people off.
Yes.
And they now do this thing of, the worst is in the publishing industry in a way.
That may sound rarefied but I can tell you.
People say there aren't enough people of colour represented and there aren't enough trans people being published.
Every publishing house is scouring the land for any transsexual they can find to publish a memoir.
This is bonanza publishing decade if you're trans, or if you're a woman, or if you're a person of color.
It's completely the opposite of the way it's portrayed.
And the part of that is they don't even know that black people have a very, very rich history of publishing and writing books before they came along to save them, and suddenly force people into the publishing industry.
It's a complete misunderstanding of the past and the present.
And it's just, I don't know how you course-correct people who've got a completely wrong vision of everything up till themselves, and also misunderstand their own era.
Well, I think you're doing your part, and I will say, I think someone like you can do a certain amount.
And the only language that I think these people speak, for example, we were just talking about
the language of shame with jihadists, is embarrassment, is turning them into a mockery.
A lot of these, that's why they hate the term social justice, where the term woke, and then
they try, they're trying to reappropriate it back.
They can't stand being made into a mockery.
That's why they go after comedians so hard.
I mean, you think about it, the Christian right, they didn't even really go after, like,
South Park when South Park had started.
They just didn't want it on at night.
And South Park, Stone and Parker, they said, we don't think that we should be on in primetime.
We think that we should be on at 11 to midnight or somewhere around there.
There was no disagreement.
They haven't gone after, there have been some, but not en masse like you're seeing now with whoever it is, Dave Chappelle, Bill Bird, take your pick that given week, Dave.
So there's, you know, me and Dave kind of doing our part is just, okay, the only language I think that they speak effectively is mockery.
Unfortunately, there's been only academics on the right sort of balancing it because we've conceded a lot of that territory culturally.
Well, it's not just conceding it culturally, although that's true.
It's also, I mean, basically there is just fear in the culture.
Yeah.
I mean, like, we were talking earlier about Islam, and there's fear around Islam.
Well, they blow shit up.
They blow shit up.
They actually might kill you.
And so it's quite easy to create fear.
What is going on in the West at the moment, about the West, is generated by fear.
And basically, the analogy I use for this is It's the woke left operating like a shepherd with a sheepdog.
Have you ever seen that masterful thing that happens?
In order to make the herd move in the direction you want, you don't have, you don't, the dog doesn't run right into the middle of the herd.
Right.
You run to the outer edges of the herd and you nip.
Right.
Now that's what's happening in our society, particularly in America.
They are trying to police the entire herd by getting the people they see as being on the margins.
That's why they come and have a nip at Dave Chappelle.
That's why they try to bite at Joe Rogan.
That's why they come for comedians.
Because if these people are, as it were, taught a lesson, the rest of us are taught a lesson too.
Right.
Fuck that.
Yes.
I appreciate you like half saying it, but then still saying, fuck.
What do you think?
They didn't hear that?
I just suddenly remembered.
Sometimes you're on television and you can't say that word.
Oh, you're not on television.
We're not that important.
I mean, the ratings are higher.
I might get you demonetized.
Isn't that possible sometimes?
I've been demonetized for years.
Of course you have.
Yeah, of course.
What did you think?
And by the way, this is all funded by Mug Club members.
Not a foreign caliphate, surprisingly enough.
What were you going to say?
Are you going to get me banned?
I don't care.
Say it.
No, no, no.
There are lots of platforms where they can say certain things.
But we're past that, aren't we?
Yeah, what's funny is I've never been what people say, like a blue comedian.
I've always said the show is like a strong, kind of a PG-13.
I don't really like, you know, vulgarity for vulgarity's sake.
I've always liked suggestive humor.
But things that needle people, or someone says you can't say that, things that are offensive, I've always found inherently funny.
Yeah, of course.
The thing you're told not to laugh at is always the funniest thing.
Right.
Obviously.
And you know what's funny?
You mentioned the sort of sheepdogs and this herding.
Which I was just talking about this recently because I have a friend, and I've done a little bit of dog training as more of a hobby, but we've had dog trainers come in.
You've met Joe Louis, a dog that big and that powerful.
If you don't have him in line, it's a problem.
Someone has a chihuahua, they bite you, whatever.
He bites somebody, I'm on the nightly news.
Yes, exactly.
Well, he has a bite pressure of 500 PSI, like a pit bull is about 300, and a German Shepherd would be like 250.
So they're bred for hunting boar and for defending the farms from puma, mountain lion, cougar.
The funny thing is, though, he has a 500 pound bite pressure.
And he got attacked recently by a German Shepherd.
Like, puncture wounds.
And I've told this story on air where they actually had to take him to the vet and squeeze out the infection and all this stuff.
This poor guy.
He grabbed it by the neck, because this is what they do.
For people who don't know, a Doggo Argentino.
They'll run out, grab it by the neck, and ragdoll it.
put it down, the traditional boar hunt is then you would kill it with a knife.
He didn't leave a scratch on this German Shepherd even though he could have crushed its neck
and windpipe.
And it's that bridled power.
And so while they kind of go, they want to nip and they want to herd because that really
is the only tool they have, dogs that are herding dogs.
That's what they're bred to do.
That's why we have to be careful with them in children sometimes because they'll nip
children, not in a mean way, but to get them inside.
Whereas a Joe Lewis, they know better than to...
It's like, I don't want to destroy the kill.
Right.
Well, by the way, I don't want to stretch... In other words, I want to ragdoll them, but I don't want to kill them, is what I'm saying.
I would also like to have my dog attack them.
I don't want to stretch this analogy, but let me risk it.
One of my contentions at the moment is that people in the West, particularly white Westerners, have been in a very strange position in recent years.
We've been what I describe as polite and courteous.
Yes.
So somebody says, you know, you have your culture, we have ours.
And we say, that's great, how charming.
And then we end up overdoing it.
We say, what a wonderful culture you have.
It's better than ours.
It's a form of politeness.
And there's a lot to be said for it.
I mean, courtesy is an important part of civilization.
But it can't be limitless.
And my view is that we're around some kind of tipping point where people's
patience might be coming to an end. I sort of think it should come to an end. Yes. Of saying,
you know, I'm willing to have a certain amount of course correction, but not total decimation.
Right.
So I'm not having you take all of our heroes away.
I'm not having you come for everybody in our history who we admire.
I'm especially not having that whilst you have nothing to offer in its place.
So for instance, one of my obsessions is this one with cultural appropriation.
Do you notice that people who talk about cultural appropriation always talk about it in the most stupid, unimportant terms?
Like, oh, Halloween costumes.
Yeah, most of culture isn't about bloody Halloween costumes, you know?
A braiding of hair is cultural appropriation.
Okay, what about music?
Right.
Who's allowed to borrow?
What are the boundaries?
Are we allowed to borrow across cultural boundaries?
Or do some cultures have to keep absolutely, like hermetically sealed for racial reasons?
Yeah.
Now, of course they haven't thought about it, which is why they're obsessing with the stupid Halloween costumes each year.
They haven't thought about it because it is absolutely impossible, this idea.
The point with Western culture was that we didn't appropriate, we appreciated other cultures, we went out and found them, and when we admired them, we brought it into our own culture.
There's nothing to be ashamed about about that.
There's nothing to be ashamed of.
So, at some point, In the current era, it has to be possible to turn around and say, I'm sorry, I'm done with feeling guilt, I'm done with apologizing for things I didn't do, I'm done with being told I should feel shame for things, I'm done with being told that there's nothing good about my culture, my history, or my background, and here's the standoff, you don't respect my ancestors and my culture, why should I respect yours?
No, I think you're absolutely right.
I think that cultural appropriation could be a good thing.
For example, if in the Middle East they, you know, appropriated freedom and no longer having slavery.
Yeah.
I'd be like, all right, you can take that.
Consider that our Taco Tuesday for you guys.
We'll give you rights for 50% of the population.
Yes, exactly.
As a swab.
Though I think that just ends up being another form of slavery, I'm not entirely sure.
I want to talk about the differing views sort of in the UK and the United States as we go to Mug Club, because being raised in Canada, it's really just they want to be American so desperately, even though they have the queen on their money, that it might be a little bit different from where you were raised.
And you mentioned America quite a bit.
The book is The War in the West, Douglas Murray.
We're about to talk about some things that...
Well, I'll just say this.
I don't know what he's going to say.
I'm not a mind reader, but I assume things that couldn't be permitted here on YouTube, you can feel free to get me demonetized all you want once we're done with Club YouTube.
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