In this installment, Dan blows Jordan's mind by telling him all about how Tucker Carlson decided it was worth his time to interview Larry Sinclair, the man who claims to have done drugs and had sex with Obama back in 1999.
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
|
Knowledge Fight. | |
| I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys. | ||
|
unidentified
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knowledge fight need money stop it it's time to pray you're on the air thanks for holding Hello Alex and I'm I love you. | |
| Hey everybody! | ||
| Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. | ||
| I'm Dan. | ||
| I'm Jordan. | ||
| We're a couple dudes. | ||
| I like to sit around, worship at the altar of Selene, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. | ||
| Oh, indeed we are, Dan. | ||
| Jordan. | ||
| Dan. | ||
| Jordan. | ||
| Quick question for you. | ||
| What's up? | ||
| What's your bright spot today, buddy? | ||
| My bright spot today isn't a bright spot. | ||
| It's a fucking call-out. | ||
| I think what's interesting about that is I don't have a pure bright spot either. | ||
| And I pointed directly at you. | ||
| You did point directly at me. | ||
| I was a little bit intimidated by that, but I'm willing to be called out for all of the terrible things that I do. | ||
| It's not about you. | ||
| It's for emphasis. | ||
| And it's actually something I've already talked to you about a little bit through text. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It's the Real World Road Rules Challenge. | ||
| Season 20. Yeah. | ||
| Holy shit. | ||
| How did they have a 21st season? | ||
| Like, not that anything that, like, the people do on it is bad, but they're in the Czech Republic. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And, okay, so for people who have never watched the show, they have teams, they compete in challenges, and the people who lose have to face off for elimination. | ||
| The place that they face off in a battle for elimination has a different name every season. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| It's like the jungle. | ||
| Themed name associated with the... | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And in this season, it's called the Gulag. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Which is weird. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| First strike. | ||
| Specifically? | ||
| Pretty bad. | ||
| Not a good idea. | ||
| No. | ||
| A little distasteful. | ||
| But then, in the first episode, the challenge that they had to do to decide who would go into the gulag to face off for elimination, they had gas chambers that people had to be in and solve a puzzle inside. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they kept calling it a gas chamber. | ||
| They really did. | ||
| And it was fucking uncomfortable. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| I was like, how did this not get canceled mid-season? | ||
| Cancel culture wasn't non-existent back then. | ||
| It was horribly offensive. | ||
| Yeah, but how long ago was it? | ||
| The past didn't... | ||
| I'm telling you, the past is different. | ||
| It's not what you remember. | ||
| It's not what any of us remember. | ||
| We all saw all of that shit and didn't even blink. | ||
| If there was a season of The Challenge set in South Africa, the amount of racist iconography around that at that time period would have been bananas. | ||
| Johnny Bananas. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| I was blown away. | ||
| He would have been in blackface. | ||
| That's how racist it would have been. | ||
| I was blown away. | ||
| I thought, like, I remember things. | ||
| I don't know if I... | ||
| I had to have watched that season when I was younger because it has the famous moment where CT wears Johnny Bananas like a backpack. | ||
| Yeah, it's never not played if you are talking about the challenge. | ||
| Yeah, and I remember that happening and... | ||
| You remember that happening in the gulag, Dan. | ||
| That's where you remember that happening. | ||
| I know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fuck. | |
| All of our brains just filtered it out. | ||
| This is totally... | ||
| That's what it was like to live 20 years ago. | ||
| And my dad had the Gulag Archipelago in his bookshelf. | ||
| I remember the name of that from those days. | ||
| I was aware that book existed as a kid. | ||
| Sometimes those meetings have to be absolute, filled with people who are just completely devoid of... | ||
| If you repeat the same word over and over and over and over again until it loses meaning, if you're in a writer's room for fucking two weekends just trying to come up with any idea and somebody goes, I don't know, we're in the Czech Republic, let's call it a gulag, you're like, that's good enough for me, let's go home. | ||
| It's time for lunch. | ||
| Yeah, exactly, yeah. | ||
| But here's the other thing. | ||
| What? | ||
| Those people who are on the show, the contestants, they don't know basic trivia questions. | ||
| They have no idea what a gulag is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Nope. | |
| They don't know any of this fucking history. | ||
| Oh, God. | ||
| Anyway, you're on notice. | ||
| 20 years ago, the challenge. | ||
| What's your bright spot? | ||
| My bright spot, like I said, it's not really a bright spot. | ||
| It starts out as a very dark spot. | ||
| Shohei Otani has torn his... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Man, but you know what? | ||
| I hate to say this, but it's almost inevitable. | ||
| Because he's shined so bright. | ||
| Well, that's kind of the thing. | ||
| He can't pitch right now. | ||
| He's going to have a second Tommy John surgery, but Lord knows what that'll do. | ||
| But the reason that it is a bright spot is because... | ||
| In just over three quarters of a season of baseball, Shohei Otani played the greatest season of baseball ever played by a man. | ||
| And it probably ever will be played unless he does it next year. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know, like that kind of thing. | ||
| Because... | ||
| He proved it's possible. | ||
| He proved that it's impossible. | ||
| What he has done is not possible. | ||
| Like, it is inconceivable. | ||
| And the best players on this planet look at him and go, fucking what? | ||
| Right. | ||
| But here's the thing. | ||
| He did prove it's possible. | ||
| He changed the paradigm in a certain way because he is human. | ||
| Now, granted, he may be one of a kind once in a lifetime, once in a generation, once in multiple generations type talent. | ||
| More in all of our lifetimes. | ||
| But... | ||
| Who's to say that there couldn't have been another of him with that level of talent who never thought it was possible and never pursued the paths of being the best pitcher and an amazing hitter? | ||
| Right, but you just did the same thing that... | ||
| Is going to happen earlier where you went, you know, it's kind of inevitable, really, that he tore his thing because he shone so bright. | ||
| So that's the twin. | ||
| That's what you've just described is the twin. | ||
| Oh, he showed it's possible. | ||
| And at the same time, he showed it's impossible. | ||
| So no one will tell people to do it. | ||
| But at the same time, he did it. | ||
| So why can't you do it? | ||
| My man, it's the best of times is the worst of times. | ||
| And that's what it is. | ||
| There are two wolves inside every show. | ||
| That is kind of the concept, though, of like... | ||
| It is only possible, and it's only exciting, and it's only something that you can think about through the lens of this particular sport. | ||
| And so it's very cool. | ||
| It's a cool thing that happened. | ||
| And you got to experience it. | ||
| Oh, yeah, totally. | ||
| You were fortunate enough to be around and enjoying it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So crazy. | |
| That's a bright spot. | ||
| It's amazing. | ||
| So it is a bright spot, yes. | ||
| I got to witness. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You're a martyr. | ||
| Doesn't that mean witness? | ||
| That does mean witness. | ||
| Anyway, Jordan, we're in Europe. | ||
| We're banking these episodes in advance. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So currently we are somewhere. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know the order these are coming out. | ||
| It'd be fun if we were in the sky. | ||
| We might be. | ||
| We might be in the sky. | ||
| Or we might be on a train not unlike the Orient Express. | ||
| Solving a murder. | ||
| I swear to you. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I wanted a distance. | ||
| That we could have taken a sleeper car. | ||
| I thought we were. | ||
| I thought you were taking one from Glasgow to Manchester. | ||
| No, we can't take an overnight for two hours. | ||
| Yes, we can. | ||
| I insist. | ||
| All right, fine. | ||
| We'll take the sleeper car. | ||
| And then we murder. | ||
| And then we murder. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And then it turns out that it was everyone. | ||
| Spoiler alert for the Orient Express. | ||
| Yeah, it was everybody at the same time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| And we went in order of names in the alphabet. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Spoiler alert for the ABC murders. | ||
| And we're all actually one person. | ||
| Spoiler alert for identity. | ||
| Oh, I was going Agatha Christie. | ||
| You went a different direction. | ||
| You went a bad John Cusack movie. | ||
| I went a bad John Cusack movie. | ||
| How do you even remember that? | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| I remember it, too. | ||
| How do you remember it? | ||
| Because I worked at a movie theater when that came out. | ||
| Oh, that's a good point. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| How do I remember it is even weirder. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Weird. | ||
| Was it all John Cusack? | ||
| Or was it the child? | ||
| No, I thought it was... | ||
| Wait, I thought everybody was inside. | ||
| His personalities are all in his mind or something. | ||
| Yeah, they're all hanging out, talking, and they're arguing about who's good or bad, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then later, it's like a kid. | ||
| Who's the killer? | ||
| It's like a kid who's in a van? | ||
| It is the kid. | ||
| I don't like it. | ||
| Good. | ||
| Thank God we don't actually remember. | ||
| Yeah, that is good. | ||
| Otherwise, it'd be... | ||
| What a relief. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So anyway, we're in Europe. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But we have an episode to do. | ||
| We're going to be talking about an episode of Tucker. | ||
| You know, hey, these are evergreens. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| That's the kind of thing you can do in advance and it'll still be relevant. | ||
| Or it will be as irrelevant. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So we'll get down to business on that, but Jordan, first, let's say hello to some new wonks. | ||
| Ooh, that's a great idea. | ||
| So first, Pikmin 4 is a delight, and I really hope Dan is enjoying it thoroughly. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much! | ||
| Thank you, and here's the thing. | ||
| I love Pikmin 4, and I've enjoyed it, but I've not finished it, and here's the reason. | ||
| Huh? | ||
| We're about to get into a weird time loop. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because I am saving it until our flight. | ||
| Because I can play the Switch on the plane. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So I want to have something that I really enjoy that I can use then. | ||
| And so the rest of Pikmin 4 is waiting for me in the sky. | ||
| I have a sleeping pill. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Nice. | |
| Next, Lagomorph Dice. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a policy wonk. | |
| Thank you very much! | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Next, congrats to Bree for getting her PhD. | ||
| And hello to Matt, who doesn't have one. | ||
| I'm disappointed that didn't rhyme, but you are a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| I said the same thing. | ||
| Next, Will, previously chief globalist of Arkansas and currently chief globalist of Tennessee. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Next, Veronica knows putting on a Ritz ain't a taco. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you very much. | |
| You get that? | ||
| Not particularly. | ||
| That song, Puttin' on the Ritz? | ||
| No, I understand Puttin' on the Ritz. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But that's Puttin' on the Ritz. | |
| Puttin' on the Ritz. | ||
| That was by Taco. | ||
| Ah. | ||
| The band is Taco, or the singer is Taco. | ||
| Weird. | ||
| Anyway, we have a technocrat in the mix, Jordan, so thank you so much to Colin from Canada, but not the one from Red Letter Media. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a technocrat. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a policy wonk. | |
| Four stars. | ||
| Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant. | ||
| Someone sodomite sent me a bucket of poop. | ||
| Daddy Shark. | ||
| Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's a loser little titty baby. | |
| I don't want to hate black people. | ||
| I renounce Jesus Christ! | ||
| Thank you so much! | ||
| Yes, thank you very much. | ||
| Great scene from Young Frankenstein, right? | ||
| Isn't that the Mel Brooks movie where they did the Putting on the Ritz? | ||
| They did do Putting on the Ritz with Gene Wilder and what's-his-face? | ||
| Good Times. | ||
| From Everybody Loves Raymond. | ||
| Wait, Everybody Loves Raymond? | ||
| No. | ||
| You talking about Ray Romano? | ||
| No. | ||
| You talking about Brad Garrett? | ||
| No. | ||
| You talking about Patton Oswalt? | ||
| No. | ||
| You talking about... | ||
| Wait. | ||
| That was King of Queens. | ||
| Patton was on King of Queens. | ||
| I was going to say, I was like, wait. | ||
| Was he on? | ||
| Are you talking about Andre Brower? | ||
| Wait, that was Men of a Certain Age. | ||
| What other Ray Romano shows are there? | ||
| None? | ||
| Are you talking about Jonathan Taylor Thomas? | ||
| Home Improvement? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But you lost the connective tissue of the Ray Romano. | ||
| Oh, that's right. | ||
| I forgot about the... | ||
| I just went straight from... | ||
| Wait, King of Queens didn't have Ray Romano on it? | ||
| What am I thinking? | ||
| I have no idea what you're talking about. | ||
| I've just been... | ||
| I've been at your whims. | ||
| For everyone, a little bit of context. | ||
| We are recording this after recording another episode, so there may be a little bit of loopy. | ||
| A little punch drug. | ||
| A little loopy. | ||
| Yeah, a little bit. | ||
| So, Jordan. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| As we're recording this, in the recent weeks, Tucker is taken to his Twitter show, and it's gone from being a weird, meandering monologue format, and he's done a series of sycophantic interviews with horrible people. | ||
| The run started with the Tate brothers, Andrew Tate and his brother, whose name I have learned a couple times. | ||
| Ooh, Tristan. | ||
| I forgot it, and then I remembered it. | ||
| And he went on to RFK Jr. and Vivek Ramaswamy, Trump, and then the Hungarian far-right president, Viktor Orban. | ||
| What? | ||
| Yeah, he did an interview with Orban. | ||
| So, okay. | ||
| And he put out on his Twitter feed a speech that he gave in Hungary that is troubling. | ||
| You know, how about this? | ||
| Let me throw this out at you. | ||
| I've done some interviews. | ||
| That's nice. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And I imagine if I interviewed any head of state, realistically, you have to say, this person has made decisions that have killed another human being, right? | ||
| This person said, shoot this, blah. | ||
| I imagine that a lot of those people doing those interviews, people take that as red. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But Victor Orban's a little bit more of like a, that guy might have pulled the trigger on somebody who disagreed with him. | ||
| That's a different type of interview in my head, you know? | ||
| Sure, but, you know, he's very beloved in the Trump sphere. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And Tucker, in particular, really likes Orban. | ||
| I know, you know, but that's a now thing, you know? | ||
| That's like, hey, I'm Prince Mohammed bin Salman's favorite journalist. | ||
| Now, you don't want to know what happens when it's the later. | ||
| It's true. | ||
| So we're going to be covering another in that series. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| Do you know who this might be? | ||
| No. | ||
| This is why it's so much better when you're off social media. | ||
| I'm just... | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Well, here's the first clip. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| In retrospect, it's pretty amazing that Barack Obama got as far as he did. | ||
| It's not Barack. | ||
| In 2004, the summer of 2004, Barack Obama gave the keynote address to the Democratic Convention in Boston. | ||
| And when he... | ||
| Walked to the podium. | ||
| Probably only a small percentage of people in the room knew how to pronounce his name. | ||
| He was totally unheard of. | ||
| No one knew Barack Obama. | ||
| At the time, he was a state senator in Illinois. | ||
| So people did know about him. | ||
| Four years later, he once again spoke to the Democratic Convention, but this time as the nominee. | ||
| Meteoric doesn't begin to describe it. | ||
| How did this happen? | ||
| Well, the outlines are fairly well-known, though rarely talked about. | ||
| A small group of Democratic donors, mostly in Chicago, decided that Barack Obama was their guy. | ||
| He was the vessel for their ambitions. | ||
| They paid for his campaign. | ||
| They paved the way for his rise. | ||
| He spent two years pointlessly in the United States Senate preparing to run for president in 2008, and of course, in the end, he won. | ||
| But the question was, who was this man? | ||
| So there is something interesting about that, like no one knew how to pronounce his name. | ||
| And it just makes me think of that interview that DMX did. | ||
| Do you remember that? | ||
| The one where he sang Christmas songs? | ||
| No, he was being interviewed about Obama running for office. | ||
| And he's like, this guy's name is Barack? | ||
| There's no way his name is Barack. | ||
| He was like, you just would not believe that someone was named Barack Obama. | ||
| And they're like, so do you think you'd vote for him? | ||
| He's like, I'm a felon. | ||
| I can't vote. | ||
| There's no way his mom named him Barack. | ||
| DMX is truly one of our treasures. | ||
| Was, unfortunately. | ||
| Was, unfortunately. | ||
| Yeah, so... | ||
| There was some lack of awareness of him globally, let's say. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| And he did have a fairly fast rise to prominence in national politics, but it isn't as weird as it may seem to Tucker. | ||
| Consider that after Bill Clinton, you had Al Gore as the nominee in 2000. | ||
| He was a charisma vacuum, but still almost certainly would have beat Bush had it not been for the Supreme Court. | ||
| And then since that point, Democratic candidates had been uninspiring to the electorate. | ||
| In 2004, you had John Kerry as the nominee, but look at the rest of that primary. | ||
| You had Howard Dean, but he screamed and it was game over. | ||
| You had General Wesley Clark, but he was kind of boring and a military guy. | ||
| You had John Edwards, but he was almost fascinatingly bland and ended up as Kerry's running mate. | ||
| Then you had Dennis Kucinich and Joe Lieberman, who weren't... | ||
| Really Democrats? | ||
| And the latter was part of the failed 2000 ticket with Gore. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then you had Al Sharpton poking around in the primary like he does pretty much every year. | ||
| And, you know, there wasn't a lot of energy. | ||
| If you look at this roster, you don't see a vision for the future. | ||
| Hillary Clinton was obviously a political force to be considered, but the Democratic bench was shallow. | ||
| When Obama appeared as a young state senator with a gift for giving rousing speeches, it was inevitable that the Democratic Party would want to take a chance on him, because compared to the rest of those snoozebags, Obama was exciting. | ||
| He could captivate people, which was lacking in literally everybody else. | ||
| Yeah, I can't, you know, like, people talk about those Bernie Sanders rallies and all that stuff, but there is nothing like what happened in 2008 in Chicago. | ||
| Whenever he was... | ||
| I mean, nothing like it. | ||
| In Columbia, Missouri, on election night, people took to the streets to drunkenly dance around. | ||
| It's nuts. | ||
| There was such excitement. | ||
| It was insane. | ||
| What Tucker is doing here, right from the jump, is seeking to delegitimize everything Obama achieved. | ||
| He didn't do anything, really. | ||
| He was scooped up by these powerful forces in Chicago and made to be the president. | ||
| Tucker wants to take away the agency of Obama and turn him into simply an instrument that other people use to achieve power through Obama as a puppet. | ||
| There's plenty of reasons for this. | ||
| Some of it is partisanship, some is racism, but all of it's nonsense. | ||
| Prior to being a state senator, No, nobody knew how to say his name, though. | ||
| Well, DMX didn't. | ||
| He'd been in the Illinois Senate since 1996 and had run for the U.S. House in 2000, a race that he lost in the primary. | ||
| In 2004, Illinois GOP Senator Peter Fitzgerald retired and Obama ran for the vacant seat and won easily, probably due to the Democratic machine getting strongly behind him since they saw a real opportunity to swing that seat. | ||
| And it didn't hurt that he was up against Alan Keyes, who is not a viable... | ||
| candidate for anything and has recently guest hosted InfoWars. | ||
| Also, if you look at the full candidate list, there was someone named Jack Ryan running, who I'm convinced was Steve Pachanek using a fake name. | ||
| As for his short term in the Senate, it's not really fair to say that it was meaningless and he didn't do anything while in that office. | ||
| According to GovTrack, he was right in the middle of the pack in terms of leadership, which uses co-sponsorship of bills to determine who's moving things most regularly and most consistently. | ||
| In his less than a full term, Obama introduced 124 bills and co-sponsored a ton more. | ||
| Of those 124, only two were enacted into law, but they were actual things. | ||
| One was a ban on the export of mercury, and the other was a relief bill for the Democratic Republic of Congo. | ||
| He was in office less than four years and introduced two bills that were signed by the president. | ||
| Compare that to Ron Paul who was in office for 21 years and only got one bill through which was just securing some land for the Galveston Historical Foundation. | ||
| Obama was there trying to get some stuff done and the opportunity to run for president came along and he did it. | ||
| The idea that Obama is a full human with agency? | ||
| That's threatening to folks like Tucker. | ||
| So what he does is strip all that away and treat Obama like a thing. | ||
| He was an object used by these other rich, powerful white guys on the left to attack the right wing. | ||
| And that's the game that we're establishing already from the beginning. | ||
| So do you know who this is? | ||
| Do you know who this interview is going to be? | ||
| Oh, God. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Somebody who's his real dad, according to the- Ooh, that's interesting. | ||
| Like, something like that. | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| Some fake-ass shit. | ||
| Okay, well, let's listen to the next clip and see if you figure anything out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Where did he come from? | ||
| What did he spend his life doing before he became president of the United States? | ||
| Well, the news media, whose job it is to answer those questions, spent the entire 08 campaign trying to keep you from knowing the answers. | ||
| By election day, most Americans- You found out his birth certificate! | ||
| One thing about Barack Obama. | ||
| Other than he was handsome and a good communicator. | ||
| Hope and change. | ||
| But they knew nothing about him. | ||
| His origins, what he believed, and legitimate questions about those facts were turned away, as they often are, with the claim, that's a conspiracy theory! | ||
| You're crazy! | ||
| Shut up! | ||
| This is really dumb and pretty reductive. | ||
| Questions about Obama's past weren't called conspiracy theories, but questions that were meant as conspiracy theory bait were. | ||
| I'll give you an example. | ||
| Obama was the editor of the Harvard Law Review earlier in his life. | ||
| If you had questions about some articles he'd written or his leanings as an editor of that outlet... | ||
| Those questions were fertile ground, and no one was opposed to asking them. | ||
| Those were questions that could lead to a greater understanding of Obama's philosophical path through life and his position surrounding law and politics. | ||
| Conversely, if your questions were surrounding demands that he produce a bunch of different birth certificates to prove he was born in the U.S., Then you don't deserve to have your questions be taken seriously. | ||
| You aren't trying to reach a greater truth that helps understand Obama and his beliefs. | ||
| You're just trying to lure people into thinking that Obama's lying about being an American citizen so he can't be president. | ||
| These genres of questions are not the same, and they don't deserve to be treated the same, but it's crucial. | ||
| For people like Alex and Tucker, their audience not realize that. | ||
| For their scams to work, the audience needs to believe that birth certificate questions are as valid, if not more, than actual meaningful questions about Obama's past and his beliefs. | ||
| Those are the same to him. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But not in the real world. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, it is something that I wish... | ||
| What would I say? | ||
| I don't think... | ||
| Well, one, there's nothing that I could have done one way or the other. | ||
| Right. | ||
| As far as Obama. | ||
| But it would be interesting to go back and learn what I knew then through my eyes now. | ||
| Yeah, the philosopher Rod Stewart had something to say about that. | ||
| Poor old grandpa. | ||
| I laughed at what he said. | ||
| His words. | ||
| Can't remember. | ||
| Little loopy. | ||
| Wish I knew what I knew now. | ||
| But yeah, there is like... | ||
| It was impressive. | ||
| For him to have edited the Harvard Law Review. | ||
| Impressive for anyone. | ||
| And now, in retrospect, it's like, yeah, of course he's going to hire Tim Geithner. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Like, this makes sense now, in retrospect, because that is the place that he was from. | ||
| That's where he was from, and I didn't understand what that meant at the time. | ||
| Yeah, and I think that everybody kind of gets into that spirit around their candidate, let's say. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| You know, because, I mean, you have that belief that, oh, he's not gonna, like you're saying, not gonna hire Tim Geithner, you know? | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| And then it does happen, you realize, oh, okay. | ||
| It's the same thing that Alex did with Trump. | ||
| And he's like, you know, he's against all of these people. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| And then as soon as he started hiring all of the people that Alex was against, he's like, I'm fine if he works with goblins as long as he's not kissing them. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, what are you doing? | ||
| It's the same kind of, like, disillusionment that's gonna happen. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And it happens to everybody. | ||
| Right. | ||
| What confuses, you know, like, for me, though, is that it was, like, the moment that happened and I realized that I was like, well, never again. | ||
| You know, this is never going to happen to me again. | ||
| Well, it's an open question, too. | ||
| Like, I think that we like to believe that had Bernie Sanders won, you know, any of the runs that he's had, we like to believe that those hires definitely would not happen. | ||
| And that may be true, and that probably is true, but we don't know. | ||
| What I mean there, it's not that, like... | ||
| I wouldn't have voted for Obama. | ||
| I would still have voted for Obama. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Because there was nothing I could do about it. | ||
| But I would never not know who Obama was. | ||
| You'd never not know that the idealism maybe cannot fully be achieved. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Sanders, right now, I know what I know about Bernie Sanders, and based on that, I can make a decision. | ||
| I don't know what he's like as president. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know? | ||
| So, yeah, he could disappoint me, but I will not vote for him thinking, this guy cannot disappoint me. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Yeah, but I think that naivete that you're describing is also a product of our age at that time. | ||
| Yeah, true. | ||
| You know, like, I was 22, I think, and, you know, everything from, like, 18 to 25 at least is, like, very soaked in whiskey. | ||
| I mean, that was actually... | ||
| And you were a little younger, even. | ||
| No, that was actually... | ||
| That was when I was living in... | ||
| Okay, so that was the second of the three years that I don't remember at all. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You were in a fugue state and I was drunk. | ||
| So between 2007 and 2010, I have no memories. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So, yeah. | |
| Are you getting any sense of who this might be? | ||
| No. | ||
| What the fuck are we talking about? | ||
| Is it somebody that... | ||
| Somebody from Obama's childhood? | ||
| Well, I mean, it's definitely somebody who knows Obama, right? | ||
| Okay, fine. | ||
| Where is his past? | ||
| Where is Obama from? | ||
| It's somebody from Chicago. | ||
| I'll spell this all out. | ||
| No. | ||
| What? | ||
| I mean, yes. | ||
| What I meant was, it's not somebody from Chicago. | ||
| I mean, he was in Chicago at some point. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| All right. | ||
| It's Larry Sinclair. | ||
| He's the guy who claimed that he did crack and had sex with Obama. | ||
| Wait. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Someone pointed out that we covered this story five years ago because Alex brought it up, and now Tucker is interviewing the guy. | ||
| You know, you would think it would be apropos to say something like, oh, how far the mighty have fallen. | ||
| When in reality... | ||
| I think what it should be is, Jesus Christ, they're catching up to us! | ||
| They're coming up! | ||
| Get to the highest part of the mountains! | ||
| They're coming up! | ||
| The seawater is rising! | ||
| Well, and it's almost like a, oh no, the joke is real. | ||
| Yeah, right? | ||
| Next thing you know, Tucker's going to be interviewing the guy who claimed he fucked Obama in a limo. | ||
| We can never say next thing you know ever. | ||
| No jump cut is absurd now. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| The family guy has become real. | ||
| It is reality. | ||
| We all laughed whenever he fought a chicken 20 years ago, and now we're fucked. | ||
| This reminds me of the time that Tucker interviewed the guy who said he fucked Obama in a limo. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| It's not a non sequitur. | ||
| It's not surreal. | ||
| Everything is Mad Libs now. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| So this happened, and, you know, like I said, it's... | ||
| Why not? | ||
| But... | ||
| That's why I kind of started this by pointing out the series of interviews that he's done. | ||
| There's like Trump, Orban, RFK Jr., and the guy who said he fucked Obama. | ||
| So this guy, his story is when he was younger, he fucked Obama. | ||
| In 1999. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That was the year to do it. | ||
| Y2K was coming. | ||
| I mean, yeah, we were all there. | ||
| We were all like, hey, fuck it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| So, yeah. | ||
| So, Tucker Carlson, the world's most important person, is interviewing. | ||
| I was thinking about it, and if you recall, when we talked about Mike Flynn being on Alex's show, he said that Obama was gay and something was going to come out about that. | ||
| I think he knew that this interview was going to drop. | ||
| Is this what he's talking about? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| Yeah, I think that that was teasing this Tucker interview, which is funny. | ||
| Michael Flynn had advanced knowledge of this. | ||
| What are they doing? | ||
| When we're not looking, I worry about what they're doing. | ||
| Like, they're up to some shit all the time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's all bad. | ||
| It's all bad! | ||
| But then a small percentage of it is kind of like, funny, bad, and then the rest of it is just bad, awful. | ||
| Man, they could just do benign scams for a little bit. | ||
| Just do benign scams for a little bit. | ||
| I don't know what episode it was, but someone posted that we talked about this on an episode that was in 2018. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| So I'm sure that some enterprising wonk will post what episode it was. | ||
| But yeah, we go into it, the claims, a little bit more thoroughly. | ||
| So I'm not going to redo that. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Every five years we have to re-debunk the same thing. | ||
| I'm not going to engage in that. | ||
| Just suffice it to say this is all a load of bullshit. | ||
| But I mostly explained who this person was before I played this clip because you would never recognize this name. | ||
| You know, Larry Sinclair. | ||
| Yeah, I would never recognize Larry Sinclair. | ||
| One of the most interesting moments in the 2008 campaign occurred when a man, like Obama himself, came from out of nowhere to recount his experiences with Barack Obama the man. | ||
| His name was Larry Sinclair, and he told an amazing story. | ||
| He said that in 1999 he had encountered Barack Obama in Illinois. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Sinclair went on to make these claims publicly at the National Press Club in Washington to sign a sworn affidavit and to take a lie detector test. | ||
| But he was dismissed. | ||
| In fact, he was attacked. | ||
| Obama shills like Ben Smith at Politico batted the claims out without refuting them. | ||
| They're absurd. | ||
| And the rest of the media followed suit. | ||
| He rented out the press club for himself. | ||
| Anybody can do that, so it's not a big deal. | ||
| So we've already covered this, like I said, so I'm not going to get bogged down in too many of the details, but as a refresher, it's a load of shit. | ||
| Now, leaving aside the actual story, I fucked this guy is not a story that the media can necessarily disprove. | ||
| Proving a negative is really difficult, and sometimes impossible, which is why generally the burden of proof is on a person who's making a claim. | ||
| If Tucker is going to be mad at the media for not disproving these claims, then I would say that I'm mad that he hasn't disproven the rumors that he's killed a hundred people with his bare hands in the last five years for sport. | ||
| I'm waiting for Tucker to disprove that, and until he does, as a sincere actor and a seeker of truth, I'm forced to assume that these are legitimate rumors and they must be true. | ||
| Yeah, you know what's really weird about all of this? | ||
| What's that? | ||
| Tucker and Obama have been having an affair. | ||
| What? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You'll notice that Tucker singles out Ben Smith of Politico here, and that's intentional. | ||
| It's because Ben Smith wrote an article about Larry Sinclair's criminal history. | ||
| To wit, quote, public records and court filings reveal that he has a 26 A specialty in crimes involving deceit. | ||
| He's a con man. | ||
| The record includes forgery charges in two states, one of which drew Sinclair a 16-year jail sentence. | ||
| The Pueblo County, Colorado Sheriff's Office also has an outstanding warrant for Sinclair's arrest for forging an acquaintance's signature and stealing. | ||
| The article discusses how he has 13 known aliases, quote, including Larry Vizcara Avila and Mohamed Gahan. | ||
| Gahanan. | ||
| It also mentions the lie detector test that Tucker brought up. | ||
| You should know that the website offered him $100,000 if he could pass one, and he, quote, took them up on it, and the site said in a press release that the polygraph organizers said his results indicated deception. | ||
| Naturally, Sinclair said the polygraph people were paid to say that, and... | ||
| I like that move! | ||
| I like the move! | ||
| Here's what I would do. | ||
| I'm going to go ahead and say, yeah, fuck yeah. | ||
| Because maybe you fucking pull it off. | ||
| Those lie detector machines are bullshit anyway. | ||
| You have nothing to lose because you can fall back on that. | ||
| You're already a liar! | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This is degrading for Tucker to do this interview. | ||
| It screams desperation for attention, and that sounds about right for where he's at right now. | ||
| His political project is active, trying to promote dangerous leaders like RFK Jr. and Orban, while he does everything he can to force people to pay attention to him by pretending to take a very obvious con man seriously in order to create splashy headlines and social media clout. | ||
| It's a fucking pathetic game, and it's super transparent. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, now... | ||
| Tucker doesn't take this shit seriously. | ||
| No, absolutely not! | ||
| Yeah, it's ridiculous. | ||
| Yeah, no, now, I mean, I'm kind of interested, but I'm thoroughly not, because it's going to be the same tone, because he's a professional at this. | ||
| Well, yeah. | ||
| But it is like... | ||
| No, it's a different tone. | ||
| Is it a different tone? | ||
| It's more obsequious. | ||
| You're joking. | ||
| I wish I was. | ||
| This man is the most important man to the most important man in the world. | ||
| You get that sense. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Well, you know, and I think that something that comes to mind is something that you talked about with Sophie from Mars, which is the, like, not taking seriously that they're taking things seriously. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| This is not a sincere actor involved in this interview. | ||
| Both of them are liars. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they don't care. | ||
| Yeah, this is kind of an insane... | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is... | |
| I feel like if I was an alien... | ||
| This would be concerning behavior from the species that I'm studying. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Holy shit, I'm a human and I'm concerned. | |
| I know, but it seems reasonable for us to be concerned about it because we've got a vested interest in it. | ||
| We have skin in the game. | ||
| Even an alien would be like, this is not correct behavior for the species that I barely know anything about. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, I think the claims that Larry makes are absurd. | ||
| But they're not! | ||
| But the claims weren't absurd. | ||
| We're not claiming they're true. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| What? | ||
| But they were certainly credible. | ||
| This was a firsthand account of Barack Obama's behavior by someone who was going to sign a sworn affidavit to that effect. | ||
| So the question is, whatever happened to Larry Sinclair? | ||
| What's his life and life since? | ||
| Is that the question? | ||
| Who gives a shit? | ||
| It turns out Larry Sinclair is still alive. | ||
| He lives in Mexico. | ||
| But today, he's in our studio. | ||
| And we're happy to have him. | ||
| Larry Sinclair, thank you so much. | ||
| Thank you for inviting me. | ||
| Look. | ||
| Look, man. | ||
| First-hand claims can be absurd. | ||
| Here's an example. | ||
| I can breathe underwater, I have telekinetic powers, and one time I dunked on Shaq. | ||
| I'll swear an affidavit to this effect if it makes Tucker take me seriously and interview me about the experience of posterizing Shaquille O 'Neal. | ||
| That would be interesting. | ||
| Yeah, I'll do it. | ||
| If you aren't saying that the claims are true, there's no point in doing this interview, unless it's adversarial. | ||
| Unless you're interrogating the claim and forcing Sinclair to substantiate the claims he's making, you're saying that his claims are true. | ||
| Unless... | ||
| Someone else disproves them, which is the position Tucker has already kind of lined himself into. | ||
| This is how cowards use information. | ||
| Every single choice and action Tucker is making is in service of screaming at the audience that these claims Sinclair is making are true and to be taken seriously, but he hides behind little disingenuous caveats like, we're not saying this is true, in order to protect the thin veneer. | ||
| Of being a serious person. | ||
| Fuck this dude and this dumb game. | ||
| It's awful. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| I don't know why we do that. | ||
| We're still letting people get away with that. | ||
| Isn't that wild? | ||
| It's something that keeps getting into my head. | ||
| Every time I read X, formerly known as Twitter, how it's always written of in that way. | ||
| And that idea of, we could just choose not to do this. | ||
| There's no reason to. | ||
| We all still call it Twitter. | ||
| Just call it Twitter. | ||
| And everyone always will still call it. | ||
| We're always going to do it. | ||
| So how dare... | ||
| Why are these news outlets trying to force Elon Musk's bullshit down my throat? | ||
| I just had an amazing idea. | ||
| What? | ||
| Now that Twitter is called X. It's not. | ||
| It's called Twitter. | ||
| But, you know, kind of called X. Now we need to change Facebook's name to Sever. | ||
| Then we need them to shoot missiles at each other. | ||
| X vs. | ||
| Sever! | ||
| No, but then the headline, if they shot missiles at each other, would be ballistic. | ||
| X vs. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sever! | |
| The headline would finally make sense. | ||
| It would be prophetic. | ||
| The title of that movie. | ||
| The title of that movie would finally make some sense. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| We have to do it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Anyway, Larry's here. | ||
| He does not live in Chicago, but he was in Chicago. | ||
| In 1999. | ||
| Yeah, for a reason. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Where did you meet Barack Obama? | ||
| It was by accident. | ||
| I was in the Chicago area in 99 for Lee Duke's graduation from the Naval Academy. | ||
| Who's Lee Duke? | ||
| He's basically my godson. | ||
| Cool. | ||
| Lee Duke. | ||
| I had hired a limousine service. | ||
| I'm sorry, did you live in Chicago then? | ||
| No. | ||
| No, I was actually living in Colorado. | ||
| I had flown in the night before. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So, had hired a limousine service, had made the driver aware that if Lee couldn't leave the base, because once they graduate, some of them actually get their assignments, and they're shipping out, and they can't leave the base, that I was still interested in going out. | ||
| Dude wanted to party. | ||
| While he's in town for his godson's graduation. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So what's your thought? | ||
| You jotted down a word I can't remember. | ||
| Oh, Lee Duke. | ||
| Yeah, well, I wrote down Lee Duke, and then I was like, man, I looked at it, and I was like, I wonder, is there some way to reorganize those? | ||
| Is he fucking with me right from the jump? | ||
| Is it an anagram of something? | ||
| Yeah, I already don't believe it. | ||
| I already believe this guy is trying to fuck with me. | ||
| It is very strange to casually mention your godson's name as if anybody knows who he is. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| That is bizarre. | ||
| Yeah, but then if you do that, and it's not that, then it's one of those specific details. | ||
| Yeah, liars add extraneous details that are unnecessary. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| So I was like, the Naval Academy graduation? | ||
| That's in Maryland. | ||
| That's in Annapolis. | ||
| No, no, no, Illinois. | ||
| But, no, there is a Naval Academy around Chicago. | ||
| It's in Chicago. | ||
| It's called the Rickover Naval Academy. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And this is a high school. | ||
| And in 2021, they had their graduation ceremony on June 12th. | ||
| In 2010, the ceremony was on June 16th. | ||
| So I was searching for a bunch of data points, but these were the only two that I could definitively nail down. | ||
| I can say with confidence that it's always in that part of June. | ||
| Though in other years, I could only find articles about the graduation. | ||
| They didn't say what day it was on. | ||
| The point here is that now we have a time frame that this must have taken place in. | ||
| It has to. | ||
| It must have been in mid-June 1999. | ||
| Could be. | ||
| Could work out right. | ||
| Ah. | ||
| Not only that, this was the year that he released Dreams of My Father, and he made speaking appearances around the country promoting the book. | ||
| That being said, I can place Obama in Chicago on June 13, 1999, because he was a speaker at a welfare reform town hall meeting at the South Shore Cultural Center, which I guess is technically Chicago, but it's almost Indiana. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| That's in the 7,000 south block of the city, whereas the Naval Academy is 4,000 north. | ||
| That is to say that they're about 110 blocks apart north-south and about 40 blocks apart east-west. | ||
| That is to say they're in two different cities. | ||
| They're pretty far apart. | ||
| And someone at one would have very little reason to run into somebody who is around the other. | ||
| It would be a very strange coincidence. | ||
| That being said, I've just done more work to substantiate Larry's story than Tucker or... | ||
| Okay, so if I understand the story correctly, now that we have this context for Obama in this place and time, right? | ||
| Obama, state senator. | ||
| Already ambitions towards higher office, running for the United States House, right? | ||
| And around this time, you can find a bunch of articles about how much he's pushing welfare reform and a bunch of things for underprivileged communities. | ||
| He's pretty active getting around and trying to make a name for himself in terms of organizing for the public. | ||
| And has just released one of the more... | ||
| Victorious books that he's ever written. | ||
| Yeah, I wonder, because I'm not actually sure how much of an immediate splash the book had. | ||
| It wasn't. | ||
| It was whenever he did his Senate campaign that it blew up because he did the speech. | ||
| Well, but he did the first speech in 2004. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And then 2008. | ||
| Oh, wait, but he ran for Senate in 2004. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, sorry. | ||
| Whatever. | ||
| Dates are all weird. | ||
| Dates are very weird. | ||
| Anyways. | ||
| Within this time period, Obama was like, hey man, I've had a rough goal of things. | ||
| I'm just gonna head out after something and then runs into this guy, this specific guy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And is like, man, we gotta bone and do coke together. | ||
| Yeah, in the back of this limo. | ||
| This is the time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, yeah, you've got to consider the state he's in. | ||
| As a state senator, someone who is putting on a run for the U.S. House that is unsuccessful, but he's putting together a primary run. | ||
| He's just released this book. | ||
| He's going on speaking engagements and fulfilling a bunch of these roles, like going to this town hall meeting, speaking there. | ||
| He's a busy dude. | ||
| Yeah, I imagine... | ||
| Imagine Michelle is listening to the story being like, dude, nobody fucked him for... | ||
| What are you talking about, 99? | ||
| That guy didn't have sex until he was president again. | ||
| He was on the move constantly. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| But yeah, so anyway, he has this limo that he's rented, and the driver... | ||
| He's like, hey man, I want to party. | ||
| Because my godson can't leave the base. | ||
| So Larry Sinclair has rented a limo and is asking the limo driver, where do I go to get fun? | ||
| Hey buddy, buddy, my godson is going to ship out tomorrow. | ||
| The day after his graduation. | ||
| And I want to get lit. | ||
| Yes, that does seem to be the case. | ||
| So that's where we're at. | ||
| And they can't leave the base that I was still interested in going out. | ||
| And had asked the driver if he knew anybody that was available that might want to show me, you know, Chicago. | ||
| And he said he did. | ||
| Who was the driver? | ||
| His name was Jameer Motani. | ||
| It was with Five Star Limo. | ||
| So you're just a guy who's in town for the night, and it sounds like you're looking to party, actually. | ||
| That's what you're really saying. | ||
| I believe that, that he likes to party. | ||
| I was in town for a few nights, but yeah, I was definitely looking to party. | ||
| Did you make that clear to the driver? | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| There was no misunderstanding. | ||
| How direct were you about that? | ||
| Extremely. | ||
| Extremely. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| There was no doubt what I was looking for. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| And he picked me up at my hotel in Gurney and drove into Chicago. | ||
| Pulled up in a bar outside and there's this guy that's introduced to me as Barack Obama. | ||
| It was literally that casual. | ||
| Had you ever heard of him? | ||
| No. | ||
| Did the driver know him? | ||
| Yep. | ||
| The driver definitely knew him because the driver said that he was a friend. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Very. | ||
| So Larry's been giving various names on the limo driver over the years, from Paramajit Multani to Yager P. Multani, and now I guess it's Jameer. | ||
| Jameer Multani. | ||
| Yeah, this story is really weird. | ||
| Mostly because you have a guy who's coming to town for his godson's high school graduation and then he rents a limo to go party alone. | ||
| He's also a career criminal who had just gotten out of prison and had no discernible means to justify renting a limo or any of this. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| It's very strange. | ||
| That is odd. | ||
| The details are not impossible, but very strange and require a little more examination than Tucker has given. | ||
| Now... | ||
| Remember, at this point, Obama's a state senator. | ||
| The limo driver just hooks Larry up with him at a bar. | ||
| Now, for those who don't know Chicagoland geography, Gurney is quite a ways to the north. | ||
| It's far closer to Wisconsin than it is to the actual city of Chicago, and it's mostly relevant because Six Flags is there. | ||
| It's pretty difficult to imagine how all of this could have played out. | ||
| Like, there would have been a lot of really long drives that make no sense. | ||
| So the timing of this story... | ||
| You can get Coke in Gurney. | ||
| I mean, so he's at the Naval Academy, then takes a regular drive up to Gurney. | ||
| Well... | ||
| Right? | ||
| No, I think... | ||
| Okay, so here's where I get a little bit lost in the weeds. | ||
| Because he said that he was at Gurney. | ||
| He had to go to the... | ||
| Here's where I get lost in the weeds. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I think that maybe the graduation took place in Gurney. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That might be the case. | ||
| So he might not have had to go to the Naval Academy itself. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I just kind of made a slight assumption. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And it's a generous assumption because it makes this make more sense. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I made the assumption that the graduation took place at the Academy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And it might have taken place at, like, some hall in Gurney. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So now, instead of that, we're at Gurney. | ||
| We rent a five-star limo for a... | ||
| I don't know, that's going to be a... | ||
| It's hundreds of dollars. | ||
| If we're talking traffic, too, you're going to be there for a long time. | ||
| I assume it was late night. | ||
| You'd have to. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, if you're going to a bar. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| So you're taking this limo to a bar. | ||
| Says the guy who has done some day drinking in his life. | ||
| Something that zero people at a Chicago bar would find acceptable to do. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, that's the other thing, too, is like, all right, the kind of bar he ends up describing, I'm like, what neighborhood are we talking about? | ||
| Where is this? | ||
| Are you meeting a state Senator Obama in Wicker Park? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Where is it? | ||
| What are we doing here? | ||
| Because the bar that he's describing feels like a loop. | ||
| Downtown bar. | ||
| I mean, if you're going to be like, hey, I said to my driver, I'm going to party, and you emphasize it with three different... | ||
| I want to go to Chicago. | ||
| I have to party. | ||
| You're going to end up on Michigan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You're going to end up somewhere downtown. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And... | |
| I don't know. | ||
| A lot of this doesn't make sense. | ||
| There are many places that you could take a left in a limo downtown. | ||
| Well, you have to consider that limos aren't all stretch limos. | ||
| Some of them are reasonably lengthy. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| That is true. | ||
| So that might be what he's talking about. | ||
| But still, no matter what, that rental is hundreds of dollars. | ||
| Yeah, that is an expensive rental. | ||
| Just to make the trip. | ||
| And then you have to assume that there's some kind of a surcharge to have the driver hook you up with a state senator to fuck around and do crack with him. | ||
| You would think. | ||
| What I'm getting at is there needs to be more supporting evidence of this claim. | ||
| If you want to be believable. | ||
| And to give you some sense of how believable this is, while I was looking into this, I stumbled upon an article where Elon Musk was saying that this interview wasn't believable. | ||
| That's bad. | ||
| You couldn't even bilk Elon? | ||
| You idiots. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So anyway, this guy, whose name might be something Multani, he was friends with Obama, right? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| So here's how. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| How would the driver be friends with Barack Obama? | ||
| I only found out later dealing with a reporter from Bloomberg News that apparently the limousine company had been doing business with Tony Resco that at the time was somehow affiliated with Barack Obama. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| So he knew Barack Obama. | ||
| And in his view, Barack Obama liked the same kind of partying you were looking for. | ||
| Okay, so sex and drugs and upwards. | ||
| The sex part I wasn't so sure about until, of course, you know, you make your move, but it became obvious very quick. | ||
| The coke part I thought was interesting because of the way that I had brought it up. | ||
| So I'm stepping on your story. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa! | |
| You gotta love how subservient Tucker is being. | ||
| He's apologizing for stepping on the story. | ||
| What a fucking loser. | ||
| Giving Larry fucking Sinclair higher status in a conversation. | ||
| Ridiculous. | ||
| How you feeling? | ||
| I'm concerned about whether or not this person has ever had sex or done drugs before. | ||
| I would like to leave that to the side and look at some of the other details. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| I'm just thinking about a man who's trying to party. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Right? | ||
| I like to party. | ||
| I'm embodying the character that he is trying to portray himself as. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I'm telling you, this behavior, wildly out of character. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Being hyper-explicit with the limo driver is a strange move. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's also, if you're, that's a porn star, but that's a porn move! | |
| Okay, you're alone, you're out of the middle of nowhere, you hire a limo, and then you just cruise around looking for sex and drugs! | ||
| But I can actually, I mean, I can see this in the real world, in, like, higher society, kind of, you know, like, really, really rich folks, maybe who have their own driver, who they have a relationship with. | ||
| Sure, sure, some Eyes Wide Shut style. | ||
| I don't remember that movie well enough, but yes, I guess. | ||
| But if you're just hiring someone from a rental company, they're not going to stick their neck out to get you coke. | ||
| Absolutely not. | ||
| And shit when it's just a random person. | ||
| And this is just a driver for the company. | ||
| Why would he know Obama because some random other person had some business dealings with the company he works for? | ||
| He doesn't own the fucking limo company. | ||
| Absolutely ridiculous. | ||
| What is going on here? | ||
| Here's where you make sense of it, right? | ||
| If I'm telling this story, again, embodying the character of somebody who's out here trying to party, a character that does exist, the limo driver trying to sell me coke. | ||
| Now the limo driver is selling me coke. | ||
| Now why does the limo driver know Barack Obama? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Already fixed. | ||
| Because he sells Obama Coke? | ||
| Because he sells Obama Coke. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And then it makes sense because you just have a guy who's in the gig economy now. | ||
| He's got a side hustle. | ||
| Instead, you've got a limo driver who is wildly helpful. | ||
| Yeah, and you now have to introduce a third character, which is where do you get the Coke? | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| You solve a lot of problems by streamlining. | ||
| The limo driver, yeah, you condense. | ||
| Makes sense. | ||
| So Tony Rezco was a businessman and lobbying kind of type of guy who was primarily involved with doing shady shit with Rob Blagojevich. | ||
| And also Alex and Tucker think Blago was set up. | ||
| So that's confusing. | ||
| How is that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| Okay, fine. | ||
| They like Blago, don't you remember? | ||
| What? | ||
| Oh, that's right, they do. | ||
| Oh, fuck, that's right. | ||
| So Obama had famously been turned down for a job with Resco's firm just out of college. | ||
| Resco did seem to admire Obama, though, and he donated to his campaigns going back to the state senate days, but their strong involvement didn't begin until years after Larry's story would have taken place. | ||
| When Obama ran for senate, Resco was on his fundraising committee, but that was in 2003. | ||
| I'm not sure if Resco had any investment in five-star limousines, but... | ||
| But I wouldn't put it outside the realm of possibility. | ||
| He had his hand in a number of industries, ranging from real estate to some retail outlets, so it is plausible. | ||
| That being said, it doesn't prove Larry's story in any way, and all of this just sounds like bullshit stacked on top of bullshit. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| But when you have someone who's such a worm, like Tucker, acting like this, just giving the softest landing to stuff and not being like, what are you talking about? | ||
| It's so easy to pass off. | ||
| It reminds me of Paul F. Tompkins' bit about... | ||
| What was the drug story? | ||
| The supposed diary of somebody who, some girl who had started on this trip to drugs. | ||
| It's very famous. | ||
| And I can't remember the name of it, but for whatever reason. | ||
| And he's going through it, and he remembers, like, oh, it scared me as a kid about all these scary drugs. | ||
| And then he looked back through it, and he's like, all right, one of the entries is, smoked marijuana today, or no, did LSD today. | ||
| Tomorrow I'm going to try weed. | ||
| And you're like, that's the wrong order, man. | ||
| You are writing this from the perspective of somebody who has heard about drugs. | ||
| But here's the problem. | ||
| I think he has done drugs. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think he has, too. | |
| He's a career criminal. | ||
| Yeah, you would think. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Maybe he's a straight-edge thief. | ||
| I mean, I know that must exist. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know if you do, like, long stretches of... | ||
| Oh, and I also know that he was busted for drug possession while he was in prison. | ||
| Okay, well, that's... | ||
| Yeah, I don't know if you're straight... | ||
| Unless he was dealing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I mean, why not just say that you were selling Obama Coke? | |
| Why not? | ||
| I would buy that. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| There's no reason not to do Coke. | ||
| Because you then have to figure out how you had your hookup in Chicago. | ||
| Yeah, that's true. | ||
| You didn't fly with it from Colorado. | ||
| That's true, that's true. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No, I forgot about the extra parts of the story there, yeah. | ||
| So he meets up with Obama thanks to this limo driver, but he can't remember the name of the bar he was at. | ||
| So I'm stepping on your story. | ||
| So you pull up, and I apologize, so you pull up to this bar. | ||
| So sorry. | ||
| The driver is basically scouting some dude for you to hang out with. | ||
| Correct. | ||
| Why? | ||
| Are you paying him? | ||
| Never. | ||
| Never. | ||
| We're having drinks. | ||
| I mentioned the fact that I could use something to wake up. | ||
| I was extremely exhausted. | ||
| So you went into the bar? | ||
| Yes, sir. | ||
| What kind of bar was it? | ||
| I'm trying to remember. | ||
| I've been trying to remember the name. | ||
| I know that the glasses had three X's on them because I remember taking one home. | ||
| Do you mean like it was a cartoon whiskey bottle? | ||
| But, I mean, generally characterized. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It was a working-class bar, gay bar, strip bar. | |
| It was upscale, quiet. | ||
| It wasn't really that... | ||
| Quiet! | ||
| Really didn't have a lot of energy to it. | ||
| It was more relaxed, more like a lounge as opposed to somewhere where people would go and get loud and crazy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Which made it easier to talk. | ||
| But like I said, when I brought up the fact that I could use something to wake up, he immediately knew what I was referring to. | ||
| No shit. | ||
| Had made it clear that I was looking for coke and I really was. | ||
| And had made the suggestion that he knew where we could get it, and we left to go get it. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Very. | ||
| Is it? | ||
| Very much. | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| So, like, Larry was like, I need something to wake up. | ||
| And then Obama looks at him and he's like... | ||
| You call me Master P because I got the hookup. | ||
| Holler if you hear me. | ||
| Wait, it's Obama who said that. | ||
| Obama had the hookup. | ||
| That's how I understand the story. | ||
| Because he's in the bar. | ||
| So the driver takes him to the bar. | ||
| He introduces him to Obama. | ||
| Obama and him, Larry, are in the bar drinking. | ||
| And he says to Obama, I need to wake up. | ||
| I need coke. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And then Obama's like, I know just the guy. | ||
| Right, because I'm still struggling with this whole driver who is... | ||
| The driver now has exited the story for the most part. | ||
| The driver is exited. | ||
| He is just there to go from Gurney to introduce Larry to Obama. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That's where we're at. | ||
| All right. | ||
| And now Obama takes over as the guy who knows where to get coke. | ||
| Okay, so in this story, Obama... | ||
| Is very good friends with the driver with no actual connection between the two of them. | ||
| Well, this one guy who kind of knows Obama and didn't give him a job out of college may or may not invest in the limo company that this guy drives for. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Now, I'm going to throw this out at you, okay? | ||
| How is the subject of Coke just coming up now? | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| Well, I mean, he's saying to Obama, you know, like, I want something to wake up. | ||
| I imagine it might have come up fairly quick. | ||
| Well, it should have come up in the car. | ||
| You bet. | ||
| That's my issue here. | ||
| Well, maybe it did. | ||
| Because I get the sense that what he's saying is that he was clear about his desire for coke to the driver. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And the driver introduced him to Obama because he knew that Obama would know where to get coke. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| But the limo driver somehow didn't. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That's my sense of it. | ||
| See, because I always got... | ||
| I was getting the impression that the limo driver was like, hey, this guy clearly wants to bone some dude. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no. | |
| That's interesting, but no. | ||
| It's actually... | ||
| The sex part of it is kind of incidental and happens... | ||
| I don't want to say organically, but like... | ||
|
unidentified
|
He was actually very tender. | |
| No, I'm not saying that. | ||
| But I think that the... | ||
| The conversation with the limo driver and Obama, at least at this point, in the preamble of all this, is all about the drugs. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And partying in terms of that as opposed to partying in terms of fucking. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Man, I am struggling with this because this is not how people who are looking for drugs behave. | ||
| True. | ||
| And you have Tucker doing the interview, and that's not helpful. | ||
| No, it is really not helping me understand where we are in the story. | ||
| So, Larry... | ||
| And Obama, get that Coke. | ||
| So you said, I'm looking for someone to wake up. | ||
| He knows you're referring to cocaine. | ||
| I know where to get it. | ||
| What happens next? | ||
| We get back in the limo. | ||
| The driver takes us wherever it is that Barack had instructed him to take us. | ||
| I had given Barack $250 to pay for Coke. | ||
| He gets out. | ||
| In the 90s? | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's a lot. | |
| That's a lot of Coke. | ||
| I start putting a line on a CD tray to snort. | ||
| And you're in the limo. | ||
| Driving or parked? | ||
| No, the driver's driving. | ||
| I start to put a line on a CD tray, and I just happen to notice that he pulls something else out of his pocket. | ||
| And next thing I know, he's got a little pipe and he's smoking. | ||
| So I don't have an issue with it. | ||
| I mean, some people smoke, some people snort. | ||
| I would never claim to be the world's most knowledgeable person in the field of cocaine use, but... | ||
| I do know some coke heads. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I don't think anyone would think it was a great idea to just buy cocaine and then smoke it. | ||
| If you had crack, you could smoke that, but that's not the same form as the powder cocaine that Larry is clearly talking about. | ||
| He must be. | ||
| It is doable to smoke powder cocaine, but in order to do that, you need to freebase it, and that's a little bit of a process. | ||
| Generally, you would need to add ammonia to the cocaine and then heat it up substantially to free the base cocaine from the salts, which is not ideally done in a moving car. | ||
| This is a bit of a weird detail that gives me pause. | ||
| If he said they both snorted it, or if Obama had gone and gotten some crack rocks instead of powder, and then they both smoked, then it would make more sense. | ||
| But I have a suspicion that this is a detail that plays into inherent racism in the audience that this story is meant for. | ||
| Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. | ||
| I think that that's the feeling that I get here. | ||
| See, Obama is black, so he takes his cocaine differently. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's 100%. | ||
| I mean, it's... | ||
| Absurdly crazy. | ||
| Unless he were to say that, like, we bought two different kinds of cocaine. | ||
| I mean, that's a crazy thought process to have. | ||
| It's very weird. | ||
| $250, and you get very snortable cocaine. | ||
| He pulls out ammonia. | ||
| And Obama's like, hold on. | ||
| I gotta smoke this in my pipe. | ||
| I'm gonna freebase this shit. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| It's very weird. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So after this, Larry makes his move. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Wait, he makes his move to... | ||
| Romantically. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Well, not romantically. | ||
| All right. | ||
| I don't have an issue with it. | ||
| I mean, some people smoke, some people snort. | ||
| Smoking the cocaine. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So as I'm doing a line, I just start... | ||
| This is the part where you kind of make your move to see where things are going. | ||
| So I just started rubbing my hand along his thigh to see where it was going, and it went the direction I had intended it to go. | ||
| So the night became somewhat active sexually and drug-wise in the limo. | ||
| Yep, so in the limo they do these drugs and then he gives Obama some dome. | ||
| I mean, I'm not super experienced with cocaine, but I imagine two dudes who have just done coke is just double the opportunity for a soft one. | ||
| I know that a lot of people do call it coke dick. | ||
| I was going to say, this is the wrong order for this story. | ||
| But at the same time, I do think whenever you do amphetamines and a lot of uppers, you can become overly sexual even if you can't achieve erections or whatever. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Totally. | |
| That is still within the realm of possible. | ||
| No, I'm just saying that you do the coke to do your partying, and then when you're... | ||
| Back at the hotel, that's when you fuck. | ||
| Oh, that's how you do it? | ||
| That's how I've always been told. | ||
| The coke is for the partying. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Look, I mean, I don't believe any part of this story, so I'm not going to split hairs here. | ||
| So they fool around. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| I start rubbing along the leg of this complete stranger who just purchased Coke with me and a driver that I don't know. | ||
| Two people that I don't know. | ||
| It feels like, you know, obviously it's a risk. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| Because one version of this, you end up sucking this guy's dick in the back of a limo. | ||
| Sure, which would be great. | ||
| And then the other version of it is he beats the shit out of you. | ||
| I was going to say, you die. | ||
| Well, maybe not die. | ||
| Well, you could die. | ||
| I mean, 90s Chicago, and you make a homosexual advance upon somebody who just purchased $250 of Coke for you? | ||
| You could die. | ||
| That is a place to die. | ||
| It seems, like, obviously it is something that probably happens a bit. | ||
| You know, that kind of a move being made. | ||
| But you'd have to, like, rely on other signals. | ||
| I would feel like, if I were Larry and I was telling this story, I'd be like, you know, we locked eyes a couple times. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| That's somebody who's very clearly telling a story from the perspective of now, looking back on what could have happened. | ||
| You're not telling me a memory because that is a different world. | ||
| It seems strange. | ||
| 1999 is a different fucked up world. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Especially for any LGBT story. | ||
| You would have to know that this guy was gay or bisexual in order to... | ||
| I guess feel the comfort to be that overt. | ||
| Anything, yeah. | ||
| I don't know, though. | ||
| I certainly don't have a lot of experience in the cruising and coke hookup communities. | ||
| Especially with an unknown driver. | ||
| Now we've got three people in here, all of whom are behaving like this is totally normal. | ||
| It is a little strange. | ||
| So they do the oral, and then here's what happens next. | ||
| Good for them. | ||
| So what happened after? | ||
| Afterwards, I actually went back to my hotel. | ||
| I had specifically asked that he drop Barack off first, but for some reason, he and Barack chose that they would drop me off at the hotel first, and then he would take Barack. | ||
| So, Barack actually made the drive out to Gurney, which is a suburb outside of Chicago, to the hotel for me to be dropped off. | ||
| What hotel was that? | ||
| It was the Comfort Inn in Gurney. | ||
| Ooh, that sounds depressing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well... | |
| You have to remember, it was 99. What? | ||
| This is a strange moment. | ||
| That is a fucking... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fuck you, man! | |
| What is wrong with you? | ||
| The Comfort Inn, man. | ||
| What a bummer. | ||
| That's just... | ||
| How can you be that rich? | ||
| Was the Comfort Inn substantially different in the 90s? | ||
| What is he saying it was the 90s? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Weird. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know! | ||
| It wasn't like a Motel 6. It is a... | ||
| Well, and even the Motel 6 has a certain charm to it. | ||
| It does. | ||
| It is Tucker being a little dickish. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| A little unrelatable to the common person. | ||
| Listen, a comfort in is fine. | ||
| It is. | ||
| It's fine. | ||
| It's quite fine. | ||
| It's quite fine. | ||
| Anyway, Obama, unsatisfied with just this, came back a-calling the next day. | ||
| I got dropped off. | ||
| They left. | ||
| The next day was somewhat interesting because he ends up showing up at my hotel room. | ||
| Which I thought was somewhat weird. | ||
| Speaking of John Cusack movies. | ||
| He wanted some more. | ||
| So when you say he showed up, he just... | ||
| He showed up. | ||
| I mean, I had no warning. | ||
| I was in the room. | ||
| There's a knock on the door. | ||
| I opened the door, and he's standing there. | ||
| And he's standing there with more coke, and he comes in, and it was just like a quick, you know, rehash or rerun. | ||
| From the night before. | ||
| Exact same program. | ||
| Exact same program. | ||
| Was he smoking again? | ||
| A little blow and go. | ||
| I mean... | ||
| What's up? | ||
| I just... | ||
| This is just not understanding people from Chicago at all. | ||
| Or people. | ||
| How do you know the room number? | ||
| I mean... | ||
| They dropped him off. | ||
| But not at the room. | ||
| Maybe they dropped him off at the room. | ||
| Maybe the Comfort Inn was a motel at the time. | ||
| So we've all gotten out of the car together. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| And then we dropped him off. | ||
| We've got to make sure he gets to the room safe. | ||
| He needs to get to the room safe, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But we're not going to try and have sex with him then. | ||
| No. | ||
| Or stay the night. | ||
| No. | ||
| No, we're going to leave him there. | ||
| We're going to get in our car. | ||
| We go back to Chicago. | ||
| In a limo with the man who is still at work, presumably. | ||
| Right, on the clock. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And the person who had hired him has been dropped off, and now he's just hanging out with Obama. | ||
| Now he's just hanging out with Obama. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All right. | ||
| The state senator. | ||
| Then they go back to where they're staying in Chicago, presumably. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Then Chicago. | ||
| Then the next morning, Obama leaves Chicago. | ||
| He's like, that was so much fun last night. | ||
| I gotta go to Gurney to get a rub and tug. | ||
| Now, we don't know if the limo driver makes an appearance the second day. | ||
| See, that's the thing. | ||
| It feels like, how is Obama driving here? | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| I mean, he drove. | ||
| I mean, is Obama driving? | ||
| He might have a car. | ||
| Why? | ||
| He's a state senator. | ||
| He's got to get to Springfield. | ||
| Not right now. | ||
| Frequently. | ||
| Nah, he's too busy partying. | ||
| Now he's taking the train. | ||
| He just did a ton of crack the night before. | ||
| And he's going to get up and drive to Gurney the next day. | ||
| To go fuck this dude again. | ||
| As opposed to just like... | ||
| If you're, you know, messing around with this person and you're both doing drugs and it seems fun, why wouldn't you just stay at the hotel? | ||
| You just keep doing drugs. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| You don't stop doing drugs. | ||
| You don't take a break. | ||
| You don't stop doing drugs, go to bed, and then are like, let's make the same decisions in the morning. | ||
| Well, you might if you're doing downers. | ||
| Oh, well, yeah. | ||
| But not if you're doing Coke or crack. | ||
| But not if you're, like, resetting and going home to your place. | ||
| One of the hallmarks of Coke and crack is not wanting to stop doing them. | ||
| They are really much, like, the most important thing to know about them is you're going to want more. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's been the predominant thought every time I've done Coke. | ||
| More Coke would be great. | ||
| I would like some more of this, please. | ||
| No, that is a very good point. | ||
| Why in God's name is this story not involved him going like, well, why didn't you get some more coke? | ||
| That should be Tucker's question. | ||
| There's no implication at all that they ran out. | ||
| It's $250 worth of cocaine. | ||
| Yeah, that's crazy. | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
| So Tucker asks, what did you think of the guy? | ||
| What did you think of him? | ||
| I thought it was interesting. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| No, I thought it was definitely a con. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| What do you mean by that? | ||
| Wait, what? | ||
| Well, in my life at that point, you made it clear. | ||
| I had already been around. | ||
| Yeah, big time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, you know when people are doing things because they actually really enjoy it or they're sincere or they're looking, you know, for a connection. | ||
| Or they're doing something because they're looking for an in, or they're looking for a hook, or it's a game. | ||
| So for me, I felt that it was a game for him. | ||
| It was like, okay, what am I going to get out of it, or is there something I can get out of it other than just the sexual part? | ||
| And lucky for me, I wasn't going back to Chicago anytime soon, so it really didn't matter. | ||
| So he's a con man. | ||
| How does that grab you? | ||
| Okay, so Obama's playing a game? | ||
| He's playing games! | ||
| I swear to you, if any part of this story is true, I would want that man to be robbed by Barack Obama just to teach him a lesson about how you should behave in this. | ||
| That's absurd! | ||
| Yeah, it's a little... | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| You would be robbed so fast if Obama was anything less than... | ||
| Trustworthy and pure in this story. | ||
| Do you know what I mean? | ||
| I think I do, but I just don't. | ||
| I just don't know. | ||
| I'm tired of this guy. | ||
| I really hate this guy. | ||
| So the issue is that he fucked Obama, and then Obama came back to his hotel room. | ||
| Again, don't understand that, but fine. | ||
| And then they went their separate ways, and he didn't think of this again. | ||
| This was 1999. | ||
| And then in 2004... | ||
| Obama gave that keynote speech at the DNC convention. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| And listen to this shit. | ||
| I don't believe this for a second. | ||
| Did you talk to him again? | ||
| I did not. | ||
| In fact, I... | ||
| And did you have any idea? | ||
| Even though you had sex with him twice... | ||
| You did cocaine with him, watched him smoke crack twice. | ||
| You had no idea who he was? | ||
| I had no idea who he was until I'm sitting in my house in Tequala, Mexico, in 2004, and he walked on that stage. | ||
| In Boston. | ||
| In the DNC convention, and I literally hit the floor. | ||
| I just hit the floor. | ||
| Wait, so you're watching the Democratic convention from Mexico? | ||
| I was laughing. | ||
| And the guy that smoked crack in your comfort in with you. | ||
| I was laughing so hard. | ||
| And you were sure it was him. | ||
| I was absolutely positive. | ||
| How? | ||
| I don't forget people I've met. | ||
| I don't forget people I have spent time with. | ||
| I just don't. | ||
| That's not the issue. | ||
| The issue is... | ||
| You expect me to believe. | ||
| And later he talks about how he's not a political person. | ||
| You expect me to believe that he's not a political person. | ||
| You live in Mexico and you happen to be watching the DNC 2004 convention? | ||
| That's ridiculous. | ||
| I mean, football was just ending. | ||
| The Red Zone channel hadn't even started yet. | ||
| No, this is ridiculous. | ||
| What channel is that on in Mexico? | ||
| I have no fucking clue. | ||
| Come on. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's not like today when clips go viral and stuff like that. | ||
| There wasn't the same thing in 2004. | ||
| Media didn't have the exact... | ||
| I mean, obviously there was plenty of coverage of Obama's speech. | ||
| But he's saying he was watching the DNC convention and who should walk out on stage but the guy who he did coke with and had sex with in a Comfort Inn, which was very depressing as a place to lodge. | ||
| You know what I find funny about this? | ||
| Even if his story is 100% true, I don't believe I care at all. | ||
| And I don't think it is really newsworthy. | ||
| I mean, it's tabloid fun if you want. | ||
| Here's another one. | ||
| That one time Robert Downey Jr. did coke. | ||
| And there's sex. | ||
| I certainly do not think it matters if it's true. | ||
| Were it to be true, I don't think it matters. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I think that maybe you could make an argument that there's hypocrisy involved and stronger support of the LGBTQ community from day one maybe would have been more appropriate if he were hiding this aspect of his self. | ||
| And, you know, Larry makes an argument that what offended him is that he lied about his drug use. | ||
| And that, like, I know that you did these drugs. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And, you know, I think that's not really worth... | ||
| Anyone's time, but I guess that's something to be offended by. | ||
| But yeah, in terms of hooking up with some dude, I don't really care. | ||
| Doing drugs, not that big a deal. | ||
| The idea of a politician not lying about their drug use, to some extent, is so ridiculous to me as to be unentertainable. | ||
| We've all done drugs. | ||
| We all do drugs. | ||
| It's almost impossible to make it through college without trying something. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| And everybody wants to turn it into a thing because everybody also does drugs. | ||
| We also want to turn it into a thing that you didn't do drugs because we still have that remnant of the past when it was like, oh no, degenerates do drugs. | ||
| I think that will eventually go away. | ||
| It is crazy to believe that we lived through Fucking heroin is free for everybody. | ||
| You can get it from your doctor. | ||
| And we are still like, hey, can't you drugs? | ||
| Well, but that also was not in our lifetime or our parents' lifetime. | ||
| The opioid crisis? | ||
| No. | ||
| Oh, I thought you meant when you could get it just like over the counter. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no. | |
| I meant the opioid. | ||
| Yeah, it's heroin. | ||
| Fair point. | ||
| I misread what you were saying. | ||
| Yeah, no, I gotcha. | ||
| So you watch the DNC. | ||
| But not only that. | ||
| I think he's saying he watched it with some friends, like a Super Bowl party. | ||
| I'm sorry? | ||
| Yeah, and he's like, I blew that dude! | ||
| Amazing. | ||
| So you're sitting there in Mexico watching this, and you think, that's the guy I had sex with who smoked crack it with me. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| And what do you think? | ||
| Like I said, I just started cracking up. | ||
| I freaked out. | ||
| I had even pointed out to some friends of mine that were at the house that night, and I told them, I said, you're not going to believe this. | ||
| I said... | ||
|
unidentified
|
I blew this guy twice. | |
| And they just start cracking up. | ||
| But that's the thing about me. | ||
| I've never been in the closet. | ||
| I've never hid. | ||
| I mean, I'm always very direct and blunt. | ||
| And I'm just like, this is unreal. | ||
| It is. | ||
| You cannot call yourself direct and blunt. | ||
|
unidentified
|
If you have a forgery charge to your name. | |
| Multiple. | ||
| Yeah, you can't. | ||
| I mean, one is too many, but if you have multiple, you definitely can't call yourself direct and blunt. | ||
| Forgery is a direct method of stealing someone's money. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, I was thinking about what you just said about, like, it wouldn't matter if this thing was true. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I was thinking about how, like, what he's talking about. | ||
| Isn't even a factor for me. | ||
| The sex and the drugs part of it are not details I'm interested in. | ||
| It's all of these other details that make no sense. | ||
| This whole thing makes no sense. | ||
| Someone getting sucked off makes total sense. | ||
| People wanting to do drugs makes total sense. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Totally. | |
| Obama is a human. | ||
| Were that what he was about and what he was into, it makes total sense that someone would do these things. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| The rest of these details make no sense. | ||
| Absurd. | ||
| Him and his non-political friends were getting together at the House to watch the DNC in 2004. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But were they gathered to watch the DNC or did he suggest that the DNC... | |
| It just happened to be on. | ||
| So now you've got a bunch of friends together having a nice little time in Mexico and somebody's just like, turn the TV on. | ||
| The DNC? | ||
| Better watch that. | ||
| Or it's on in the background and he glances over and he's like, I blew that guy. | ||
| I blew that guy. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| All of this makes no sense. | ||
| Very strange. | ||
| So Tucker wants to know. | ||
| This guy. | ||
| What was he like when he was on crack? | ||
| That's a good question. | ||
| Amazing. | ||
| And I want to get to who Donald Young was in just a minute. | ||
| And I apologize. | ||
| Real quick. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| So Donald Young is a guy who allegedly reached out to Larry and was like, I fucked Obama too, and I know all about this, and he worked with Obama or something, and then he was murdered, and it's alleged that Obama murdered him. | ||
| Oh no. | ||
| Or the Obama machine murdered him. | ||
| I was wondering if we were going to get there. | ||
| There has to be. | ||
| We do get there. | ||
| I don't really have many clips of it because it's entirely convoluted. | ||
| Amazing. | ||
| And I want to get to who Donald Young was in just a minute. | ||
| And I apologize for being a bad interviewer. | ||
| But let me just ask the obvious question. | ||
| What was Obama like on crack? | ||
| Actually, and I hate to say this because some people are going to think I'm really crazy. | ||
| I knew a lot of people that smoked it because I was in Miami in the early 80s when it became quite popular. | ||
| Similar to... | ||
| A friend of mine that I knew in Miami gets extremely high, calm, almost euphoric. | ||
| And then as it starts to come down, you know, the twitching and the looking, anything that looks white that's sitting on the seat or the floor, you assume is another piece that fell off that, you know, you can pick up and smoke. | ||
| But while he was high, pretty much the same. | ||
| Pretty controlled. | ||
| Pretty controlled. | ||
| Euphoric. | ||
| Talkative, but not really saying anything. | ||
| So it was like his presidency. | ||
| A lot like it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Get him. | |
| Ha ha ha ha. | ||
| What a goddamn worm Tucker is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| He's apologizing to Larry fucking Sinclair about how he's a bad interviewer. | ||
| He's a piece of shit. | ||
| So that's a strategy that Tucker is using to try to create rapport and make Larry feel more welcome to open up. | ||
| It's not too dissimilar to what detectives do at the beginning of an interrogation. | ||
| You want your subject to feel as open as possible, so they'll say things they might not otherwise say, and you do that by creating a false dynamic. | ||
| For a detective, it might be that they're your friend, or that they know less than they actually do. | ||
| For Tucker, it's that Larry is a high-status, important guest who deserves to be taken seriously. | ||
| Other people don't take Larry seriously, particularly other high-profile media figures, so Tucker is playing into that, even though he's fully aware that he's talking to a totally disreputable con man. | ||
| Tucker knows why other outlets don't take Larry seriously, and he's pretending not to understand all that so he can coax the most sensational, attention-grabbing interview out of Larry. | ||
| I don't have any respect or concern for Larry, but it's worth noting that he's being exploited here as well. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's an exploitation game going on all around. | ||
| Yeah, but I mean, you figure you're a small-time forger and then you wind up on Tucker Carlson's show? | ||
| That's a milestone for a con man. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's an achievement in a sense. | ||
| That's an achievement. | ||
| I think he should be proud of himself for only that. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| So Larry makes these claims and it gets all like, you know, people talk about it, make fun of him. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| All this happens. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This fella dies. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And everything is all a mess. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then all of Larry's accounts get hacked. | ||
| Uh-oh. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And she made a YouTube video. | ||
| By the way, I looked for it last night. | ||
| I couldn't find it. | ||
| That's because YouTube gave access to my account to someone shortly after the polygraph test. | ||
| And I was never given access back to it before the video was actually deleted. | ||
| Are you serious? | ||
| Oh yeah! | ||
| YouTube gave access to the account and the video was deleted. | ||
| Microsoft gave access to my Hotmail account and all of my emails were circulating the internet and vacation replies were set up on my email telling people that I was busy Giving blowjobs and would get back with them when I was done. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| That one sounds true. | ||
| Man, they wanted Obama to be president. | ||
| Yep, and they wanted me to be the biggest fraud and nutcase that ever existed. | ||
| You helped a little bit. | ||
| So, like, what we have here is Larry clicked on the wrong link. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And he's making up a fun story about all of these people conspiring. | ||
| To make him disreputable. | ||
| And man, Tucker is so enabling. | ||
| He's just like, man, they really wanted Obama to be president. | ||
| The Obama team did this. | ||
| The people who were trying to get him into office, they carried out this attack on all of Larry's accounts. | ||
| This guy sucks. | ||
| I mean, I can't believe that the Obama team would go so far as to... | ||
| Put an automatic reply. | ||
| Oh my god, they must have really wanted him to be president. | ||
| And some people say, now I don't know this, I'm not working for 538, but some people say that away message is what swayed the election. | ||
| I mean, I would have changed my vote for sure if I had or hadn't seen whatever it took for that right. | ||
| So when Larry came out with these claims, Obviously, people were not really believing it. | ||
| And one of those people, as already mentioned, was Ben Smith of Politico. | ||
| And, man, they don't like him. | ||
| Yeah, but, I mean, if it's the guy's running for president and credible information comes out that he's smoking crack and having such a dude, I mean, that seems like a story. | ||
| Well, it would be a story if the media really cared about telling people the truth about it. | ||
| Yeah, they're liars. | ||
| And that Ben Smith is a liar. | ||
| Get him! | ||
| Ben Smith's more than a liar. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Get him! | |
| What do you mean more than a liar? | ||
| He's a complete fraud. | ||
| Get him! | ||
| Ben Smith, you know, I hear people talking about grifters. | ||
| Ben Smith to me is a grifter. | ||
| Get him! | ||
| Ben Smith wrote an article saying that I had a 27-year career criminal. | ||
| And the funny thing is, is if you look my criminal history up, which I've published myself and provided from day one, My criminal history goes from 1980 to 1986. | ||
| And everything I've ever done, I've owned it. | ||
| I've never wasted taxpayer money. | ||
| And any sentence I've ever been given, I've served. | ||
| So Ben's article relies entirely on public records and court documents. | ||
| The 27-year history of crimes is based on him being arrested for larceny in 1981 and then doing a ton of crimes through the years until he was sent to jail. | ||
| Even when he was in jail, he was still committing crimes. | ||
| Quote, in prison, according to the state records filed in federal court, Sinclair was disciplined 97 times for the crime. | ||
| for infractions including assault, threats, drug possession, intimidation, and verbal abuse. | ||
| And then he got out and proceeded to commit more crimes. | ||
| He was arrested in 2001 and tried to get the judge to let him off with a warning, which failed and then he just didn't appear, leading to the warrant for his arrest that was active in 2008 when he was coming forward with the Obama. | ||
| story. | ||
|
unidentified
|
1981 to 2008 is a 27 year span all filled up with a bunch of crimes fully documented. | |
| Ben Smith isn't the problem here and attacking the messenger doesn't help. | ||
| Larry is and always has been the grifter in this situation. | ||
| Go fuck yourself. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| I mean, there's just nothing... | ||
| What do you say when a grifter says, uh, that's the real grifter? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You just go, okay, well, you stop. | ||
| Farewell. | ||
| Yeah, good baby. | ||
| Be done with you. | ||
| So one of the issues here is that Obama's a racist. | ||
| That's really one of the issues. | ||
| It does feel like right now... | ||
| The entirety of this interview is meant for I am rubber and you are glue and whatever you say. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's a lot of this. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| It's a lot of neener, neener. | ||
| It's neener, neener. | ||
| It's putting your hand on your thumb. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This is bad. | ||
| So he's racist. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I think Obama is calling the shots in the current Biden administration more than people are willing to admit. | ||
| Based on what? | ||
| Why? | ||
| The president sucks. | ||
| I think Obama is hell-bent. | ||
| I had made a statement during that press conference. | ||
| That I felt that Barack Obama being elected was going to push race relations in this country backwards 50 years. | ||
| I am absolutely positive I was... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Well, I think you've been vindicated on that. | ||
| Because race relations in this country has not only gotten pushed back, but everything's about race now. | ||
| Everything. | ||
| Everything is about victimization now. | ||
| Really? | ||
| It's interesting, though. | ||
| Yeah, he's obviously a race hater, very anti-white, but he had sex with a white man, so you have to ask, like, is that real? | ||
| Oh, for him, of course. | ||
| And I would be willing to bet you I'm not the only white person he's ever had sex with, or male, anyway. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, I don't know, man. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know what to tell you. | ||
| He's a race hater. | ||
| I mean, if you believe... | ||
| any of what is being said here by either of these two people close your computer and go live your life! | ||
| You know? | ||
| Like, that's the issue here. | ||
| You're getting a completely warped, distorted view of reality from these lunatics. | ||
| But you can't. | ||
| You can't go live your life. | ||
| Close your computer. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, you can't. | |
| Because you go and live your life. | ||
| And while you're doing that, Obama's doing his third term with Biden trying to attack the whites. | ||
| People just cannot get the idea that he does not want to be president anymore. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| He wants Biden to take the fucking... | ||
| Flack for it. | ||
| It's perfect. | ||
| He gets to be president without the downsides. | ||
| I mean, here's what I'm saying. | ||
| Biden is just off on a beach in Delaware somewhere. | ||
| I mean, Putin's doing what he's doing for power because he's insane. | ||
| A reasonable person becomes president, sees what happens, and then gets a $7 billion deal from Netflix and never looks back. | ||
| You know? | ||
| That's what a regular, normal person does. | ||
| You wouldn't want to be president any longer. | ||
| Stupid. | ||
| I think that something is to be said for how people come out of being president all gray-haired. | ||
| And maybe that speaks to how you don't want... | ||
| Maybe it's stressful. | ||
| You saw W go from W to... | ||
| Old Christmas W. Why? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| No, you went from W to Y. That's what I'm saying. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I get it. | |
| But he was already fairly old. | ||
| Obama came in looking pretty young and hot. | ||
| And he came out looking white-haired. | ||
| But he still was looking good, but transformative change. | ||
| Yeah, transformative change. | ||
| So anyway, this guy sucks. | ||
| Larry sucks. | ||
| Tucker sucks. | ||
| And here's the last clip of Tucker being the worst fucking idiot in the world. | ||
| Larry Sinclair, I'm really grateful that you came. | ||
| I wish I had interviewed you in 2008. | ||
| I don't think anyone would have run the interview. | ||
| But anyway, thank you. | ||
| You're welcome. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Great to meet you. | ||
| You too. | ||
| I wish I would have interviewed you in 2008, but at the time my brand was very different and I would have been and probably was the exact people who rightfully were looking at you like you were a lunatic. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Because my profit margin wasn't dependent on taking idiots like you seriously. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I'm sorry for that, but thanks for coming on and, you know. | ||
| Maybe trying to get something to go viral with me. | ||
| Yeah, it is kind of very self-evident. | ||
| If I'm Larry looking at him, and he's talking to me about the past and stuff, I'm looking at me having stayed exactly the same for 30 years. | ||
| I've just been here sitting, and then out of nowhere, Tucker's life completely changes, and now I'm sitting next to Tucker. | ||
| And it's like... | ||
| Tucker's life has gone all over the place, and this guy's just waiting for you to call. | ||
| Yeah, and you know, there's a similarity to that. | ||
| I mean, it's kind of apropos that we covered this story five years ago through the prism of Alex talking about it, because it is a similar dynamic with Tucker. | ||
| It is. | ||
| You know, like, Alex has not stayed in the same place, obviously. | ||
| He's gotten worse and more, you know, he's changed a bit, but not nearly to the extent that Tucker has changed. | ||
| Alex has stayed closer to his own core in the same way that Larry has stayed closer to his own core. | ||
| And Tucker is just like desperate - Yeah. | ||
| them to give himself some kind of relevancy in an eroding and self-degrading media space yeah And so congratulations, you dumb fuck. | ||
| Yeah, just go somewhere and be rich and leave everybody alone. | ||
| Yeah, go to a beach in Delaware, hang out with Biden. | ||
| Go to a beach in Delaware and be rich and leave everybody alone. | ||
| It would be nice. | ||
| It'd be nice. | ||
| So anyway, this is the end of our coverage of Tucker interviewing an idiot. | ||
| What a weird day. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| So, Jordan. | ||
| Yes, Dan? | ||
| Europe is nice, and we'll be there for a bit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I can't wait. | |
| And we'll be back with another episode soon. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Indeed we will. | |
| We have a website. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| It's knowledgefight.com. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| We're also on Twitter. | ||
| We are on Twitter. | ||
| It's at knowledge underscore fight. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| We'll be back. | ||
| But until then, I'm Neo. | ||
| I'm Leo. | ||
| I'm DZX Clark. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| I don't remember the tune to God Save the Queen. | ||
| Anyway, that's what I would do if I knew it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Woo! | |
| Yeah! | ||
| Woo! | ||
| Yeah! | ||
| Woo! | ||
| And now here comes the sex robots. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
| Alex, I'm a first time caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a huge fan. | |
| I love your work. |