Knowledge Fight - #806: Chatting with Erica Lafferty

May 12, 2023 - Knowledge Fight

01:22:36

#806: Chatting with Erica Lafferty

# weight_loss_surgery trauma_and_mental_health tattoo_sleeve 2014_eye_doctor_diagnosis alex_jones allow_yourself_to_fly andy_from_kansas axel bbls bella be_nice_to_each_other brazilian_butt_lifts brooklyn chapter_5_reorganization chris_maddie connecticut_lawsuit conspiracy_theory_and_media crowdfunding_and_financial_support customizable_lightsabers daily_chemo dan_friesen december_2022_tumor_growth dogs erica_lafferty gofundme healthcare_and_medical_ethics horizon_zero_dawn insurance_policies jackson jedi_survivor jinx jordan_holmes laffertyvlymphomagmailcom lance_armstrong left_eye legal lego_set livestrong_bracelets media_attention monthly_claim norm_pattis out_of_pocket_medical_costs primary_orbital_tumor ptsd pulse_nightclub_shooting radioactive_iodine_treatment roxy sandy_hook_elementary_school scar_tissue security_guards stage_two_b_cell_lymphoma

Erica Lafferty, Sandy Hook plaintiff and daughter of murder victim Lauren Roemer, shares her battle with stage two B-cell lymphoma—diagnosed after a tumor grew near the 2012 anniversary—while criticizing Alex Jones’ $40K/month "poverty" claim as absurd. Her GoFundMe covers $100K monthly medical costs, exposing systemic healthcare failures and legal loopholes like Jones’ bankruptcy maneuvers. The trial’s $6M+ verdicts, though surreal, validated her trauma amid harassment, including Jones’ guards blocking her entry. Now cancer-free, she’ll redirect funds to others in need, blending gratitude with fury at institutions that weaponize grief while denying justice. [Automatically generated summary]
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Participants

Main

dan friesen

25:13

erica lafferty

35:46

jordan holmes

16:42

Appearances

Clips

alex jones

infowars 00:02

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Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
Dan's Bright Spot: Jedi Survivor 00:03:02
unidentified		I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys.
		Knowledge fight.
		Dan and George.
		Knowledge.
		Fight.
		Need money.
		Andy in Kansas.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Andy in Kansas.
unidentified		Stop it.
alex jones ▲ ● ▼		Andy in Kansas.
unidentified		Andy in Kansas.
		It's time to pray.
		Andy in Kansas.
		You're on the air.
		I love you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hey, everybody!
		Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.
		I'm Dan.
		We're a couple dudes like to sit around, worship at the altar of Selene, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, indeed we are, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Jordan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Jordan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Quick question for you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What's up?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What's your bright spot today, buddy?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		My bright spot today is right here.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I have finished the construction of this Lego set of the tall neck.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's beautiful.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		From Horizon Zero Dawn.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It is quite tall.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And it has a neck.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What would you say?
		15 inches?
		Something like that tall?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'd say over a foot.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Over a foot.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Took the better part of a couple hours.
		Not as long as I expected, but it was such a gratifying time.
		I had a great, I had a blast making it, and I'm going to get more Legos.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I believe you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I love mini blocks.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Year of the Legos.
unidentified		No.
unidentified		Uh-oh.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No more years.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What's your bright spot, Jordan?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		My bright spot is, Dan, I found, or I downloaded and started playing the new Jedi Survivor game.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Ooh, yeah.
		Fantastic.
		Positive reviews of it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Fantastic.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I've never played those Souls-like games before where the bosses are extra hard and you have to die a bunch.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like masochists.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		It's really difficult, but it's so much fun.
		It's like there have been a million Jedi games, obviously.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I've been burned by Star Wars licensed products.
		Totally.
		And so I'm a little bit reluctant to...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This one has some solid, you feel like a Jedi, jumping around, flipping, slashing, shooting for stuff.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		From what I understand, there's a make-your-own-lightsaber kind of thing, which people really enjoy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yep, you can make your own lightsaber, you can customize stuff, you got a home to build stuff in.
		Yeah, you got it.
		You got it all, buddy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait, wait, wait.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm on board.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know, I was waiting until you were on the show to tell you.
		Yeah, I know.
		That way you couldn't download it before we started the show.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We gotta pause the recording.
		No, you know my weak spots.
		If there's a school and a game or a homesteading feature, I can't resist.
		Without further ado, we have a guest today, so let's not annoy them further with rambling and talking.
Was It Negotiated? 00:02:54
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Very excited to have this person on the show, someone who we have recently been in contact with and we're thrilled to have.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Erica Lafferty, thank you for joining us.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Hello, hello.
unidentified		I'm so excited to be here with you guys.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		For those who are unfamiliar just by your name, you're the daughter of the principal at Sandy Hook Elementary School and one of the plaintiffs in the Connecticut case against Alex Jones, which is more or less how our orbits intersected.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I had the absolute privilege of being the lead plaintiff in that case.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Was that something that was negotiated?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Was there a drawing straws process?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'm not going to lie, I would have thrown hands for me to have been at the top of that.
		But it was just kind of like, who's up to take this beating?
		And, I mean...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So who was up to take that beating?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I was, for sure.
		I'm like, I got this.
		Like, I'm feisty.
		I crushed this.
		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah, because it is, you know, the case, as it's titled, it's Lafferty et al.
		Again, versus Jones.
		And so, like, you are really forefront in terms of that.
		And I remember, I believe it was one of the jurors had a question of, like, Is the person first named, or is there anything to the order in terms of, like, the, like, priority?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, did somebody abuse this person more, and then there's a lower ranking as it goes on, which would be a very strange system.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like, aha, yes, this person got...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that'd be crazy as shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the hierarchy of oppression gets weird.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, so it was, like, just totally random.
		Yeah, it was totally random, and our legal team was just kind of like...
		Who's up to get their ass kicked because somebody's name has to go first.
		And I was like, yeah, I'm here for it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is quite considerate of you towards your fellow plaintiffs.
		So to start things off on a little bit like less of a heavier note or less of a complicated note, you in our email, you'd asked for an explanation of some of our show's lingo because we have a little bit of a...
		Unaccessible nature to some of the terms that get thrown around.
		This could be useful for some of the newer listeners, too, who don't know.
Gummy Worm Wonk Donation 00:04:19
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I have another one to add to my list today, too.
		I think the wonk thing, first and foremost, that is how I found you.
		And then...
		I was called the Honorary Raptor Princess, which I was just like, yo, that sounds so badass.
		I'm like, I want to do that, but like, please tell me what it is.
		And then, yeah, and then today, this wonk, wonderful wonk, Drew L., his donation was brought to me by a giant intimidating bag of gummy worms.
		Just wanted to know if there was anything behind that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure, sure, sure.
		So, to start at the top, the wonk thing is sort of a catch-all name for our listeners.
		It started, I guess, based on our third or fourth episode or something.
		Alex Jones said that he's a policy wonk, and I thought it was the funniest thing I'd ever heard, because he doesn't know anything about policy.
		Or anything.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		True.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But the term is used for somebody who's a real nerd, who reads bills and is really in the weeds.
		And I thought it was so funny that he called himself a policy wog.
		And so I just started playing the sound effect fairly repeatedly.
		And it took as a name for listeners.
		Do you want to feel the raptor princess?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		As far as raptor princesses go...
		That's kind of, well, we've done these Project Camelot episodes wherein we've talked about Carrie Cassidy and her cadre of space weirdos, people who are conspiracy theorists, but, you know, with aliens and the like.
		And so one of the main characters, Captain Mark Richards, he insisted that he was married to a raptor princess.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The raptors are a species of alien that he is allied with.
		And so he got married to the princess of the raptor aliens.
		And so we have a little ceramic raptor princess here.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I love that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Someone has made some other artwork featuring.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		That is just so good.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So it's just basically another little title for folks that we bestow.
		And I'm comfortable saying that you qualify.
		You can be a raptor princess.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		100%.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I love that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And then The Gummy Worms is about Bill Ogden, one of the lawyers in Texas.
		He, in a deposition, he was taking a deposition of Owen Schroyer.
		And he was intentionally eating gummy worms in a really menacing way to, like, gesticulate.
		Just kind of like almost a threatening level of calmness that he was trying to express.
		And so that's kind of become a little bit of a joke for folks as well.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		During the Austin trial, somebody sent him a gigantic gummy worm gift as a thank you and the like.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, our listeners are real cool, but also...
unidentified		Whimsical.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Whimsical is a good word.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Capricious and whimsical.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, like, I love the attention to detail.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Like, I really love how they can pick up on, like, the super weird shit and just, like, make it the best thing ever.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We got lucky.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I'm not sure exactly what we did, but...
		Community of folks who've gathered around are so thoughtful and also exactly what you said.
		They pick up on a little thing and play with it in the right way.
		That's real cool.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And very, very generous, which I suppose takes us to the next part.
Cancer Diagnosis Revealed 00:15:18
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		First off, let's get into the GoFundMe.
		You have a GoFundMe campaign right now to pay for your medical bills and the like.
		Could you talk a little bit about your diagnosis and how long this has been going on and where we are in the process and the like?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so I'm gonna...
		Okay, so I'm gonna preface this with, like, I work with some wonks, right?
		Like, I work at a non-profit that gets, like, real, legally...
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Actual wonks.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Real policy wonks.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Like, actual policy wonks, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Wonks who politicize.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I never heard the word wonky.
		Until I started at this job.
		And now they're always like, Erica, you're getting too in the weeds.
		And I'm like, listen, I work with a room full of fucking lawyers every day, all day, and you did this to my brain.
		So if I start talking too, like, science-y, just be impressed because I failed biology 97 times in my life.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Don't worry, we will.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I can label you a raptor princess, but I can't do anything about those grades, unfortunately.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't have the power to bestow an honorary degree.
unidentified		My principal mother loved it.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so back in 2014, I went to the eye doctor because I inherited my mom's crap vision.
		And I was there for just a regular checkup, and they found this little spot behind my left eye.
		And the eye doctor was like, eh, kind of don't like that, but it's probably just scar tissue.
		Let's just keep an eye on it.
unidentified		Which we did.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I went to the eye doctor more frequently just to have it measured in both size and location.
		For nine years, it stayed exactly the same.
		This past December, December 22, it was literally only, like, 12 days, I think, after, like, no, 10 days after the 10-year anniversary of my mom's murder.
		I go to, like, my routine checkup, and the doctor's like, your scar tissue grew.
		And I'm like, how does scar tissue just randomly grow after almost a fucking decade, right?
		So he's like, yeah, you should probably go to a neurologist.
		And I'm like, okay, never done that before.
		So let me, like, establish myself with a neurologist, which if anybody's done that, it's not an easy thing to do.
		There's long, long weights, whatever.
		So by the time, so from that initial eye doctor appointment to the time I got to the neurologist, my, what I thought was scar tissue, had tripled in size.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Whoa.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so that's some interesting scar tissue.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		If that were scar tissue for real, this would be an issue for Dr. House.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This would be a medical marvel.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Correct, yeah.
		Right?
		And like the cane and the abuse of opiates and all that good stuff.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Looks like you're using that eye too much.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Try an eye patch.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Oh my god, I have the best eye patches.
		They have like pretzels and bananas and stuff on them.
		I have apples, I have seashells.
		Oh my god, it's so cool.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I've been trying to work in a TLC reference somewhere because of the left eye aspect.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		We've been going for this so long, both of us have been staring furtive glances.
		Is she going to light her house on fire?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That was Andre Risen's house.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So, all right.
		I'm a neurologist.
		Sorry, my dogs are...
		That's Roxy.
		She's an asshole.
		So I'm at the neurologist and the neurologist is like, I don't like to look at this.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, you're now going to get a bunch of fan art of Roxy the dog.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Oh my gosh, she's so obnoxious.
		So I'm at the neurologist's office and the doctor was like, yeah, I'm not really comfortable with letting you leave here and not setting up an appointment at a different doctor.
		That's what she said, a different doctor.
		And I'm like, What kind of different doctor do I need to go for if it's not a doctor for something with my eye that's near my brain and you don't want me to see my doctor.
		You don't want me to see a brain doctor.
		But she hadn't said oncologist.
		A different doctor.
		So she's on the phone.
		She runs out, gets her cell phone, uses her actual cell phone in the room with me to make an appointment with an oncologist and was like, okay, Erica, you need to leave here and drive to this oncology office.
		You're going to have a biopsy like today.
unidentified		Whoa.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Cool!
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you love it when doctors are rushed.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		What in the actual shit?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Like, if there's not a reason to be terrified in that, like, I don't know what on earth to be scared of.
		So I go and they do the biopsy.
		They, like, they take this giant tuby thing up my nose, like, little, like, grabby laser thing and, like, rip out part of this massive tumor that's pre-folding in my fucking forehead.
		And they're like, alright, have fun waiting three weeks for Verzo.
		Like, oh.
unidentified		Cool.
unidentified		My god, you're so annoying, Roxy.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, guys.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, it's great.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This cuts up the seriousness of the story quite well.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Tension breaking.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, totally.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, this dog is killing it right now.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Roxy's got timing.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Dude, and she's on Prozac.
		Like, there's no reason for her to be acting like this.
		She takes Prozac every single day.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Wow, you want her to be quiet?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you how to do it.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So, thankfully, the results don't take three weeks, right?
		It was only like four days before they called me and they're like, yeah, that's actually the primary orbital tumor and we're calling it age two lymphoma, like B-cell lymphoma.
		And I'm like...
		Cool, what does that mean?
		And they were like, you have cancer.
unidentified		A not good cancer.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Generally, you want to start on stage one.
		I feel like if you're going to get that diagnosis, you want to skip a stage.
		That's probably tough news to swallow.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to try to do something about the dog.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So we're going to go for a little adventure around my house.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So, um, So, yeah.
		So that was like one of the biopsies that they did that day.
		They also did biopsies on my lymph nodes and my neck.
		And those results came a bit...
		See, there's my pretty mommy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm judging your decor.
		Your home decor.
		After labeling Mark Bankston the tapestry king, I am now very...
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I have cows on my walls and all crazy stuff going on here.
		Okay, so the lymph node biopsies came back about two weeks later.
		And those were significant masses, they were called.
		And I'm like, okay.
		But they were a stage zero cancer.
		So, with it being two weeks in between the two diagnoses, we kind of had this plan happening for how we were going to treat the orbital tumor.
		And the properties of my orbital tumor were very, very similar to that of a thyroid cancer, which is why they chose to do a radioactive iodine treatment versus targeted radiation.
		So, when I find out that I have, like, the stage zero lymph node masses, they were like, alright, we're also going to add chemo to this, like, treatment plant.
		And I'm like, uh...
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Just toss it in.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		At the same time?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Just toss it in a little bit.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And they're like, yeah, yeah, like, they're going to run concurrently.
		And I'm like, okay, yeah, sure.
		Let's just, yeah, let's pile that on.
		And I'm like, does that mean like I have to come here every day?
		And they're like, no, no, no.
		You can take a chemo pill, right?
		And it's the best thing for you specifically because like my grandfather had this thing called prambocytopenia, which is like a form of leukemia.
		And like I'm predisposed to like have all of this like horrible shit happen to my body.
		So I'm lucky, right?
		And I get to take these chemo pills every single day for five weeks.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Very lucky.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'm...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, I understand.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I'm fucking psyched about it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right, of course.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Compared to the alternative.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And all of this, like, you know, you know, 50 years ago or whatever.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so all of this, like, right, like, and I'm doing this, like, during the radioactive iodine treatment and, like, that, like, basically you go and I took three pills and I sat there and then they did a little scan to make sure that, like, the radioactive iodine, like, activated or whatever and then I came home and I went directly into isolation for a week and a half.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, good thing we've had a lot of practice with that, you know, in the last few years.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And, like, right, and, like, that's how I had to explain it to my stepkids.
		Like, guys, even when I'm, like, not locked in the room anymore, we're going to practice social distancing.
		And they're like, we know how to do that.
		And I'm like, okay, it's like, thank you, COVID.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Convenient but a bummer.
unidentified		That's both lucky and the saddest detail.
unidentified		I have Incredible Hulk COVID.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We're used to lockdown is not the chant that you want to...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Right?
		And they're just like, yeah, we know how to social distance and we practice this at school and isolation's no big and we talked to you on FaceTime.
		We did that with our teachers for a year and I'm just like, what the fuck?
		These four children in seven years of life should not have had to go through this much shit.
		But anyway.
		So, fast forward from the, like, oh, you have this stage zero cancer to when I'm, like, talking to a social worker and a healthcare advocate and my oncology team and, right, like, this is the type of drug that you're going to be on.
		And, by the way, Erica, your insurance doesn't cover it.
		They're saying that it's not necessary.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		That's a thing.
		What?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I thought that's why you're supposed to have insurance.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I remember spending most of my life being told that if I don't have insurance, then a catastrophic health problem will wipe me out.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Now, if I understand correctly, it doesn't fucking matter.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		It does not fucking matter.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		It does not.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There we go.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I work in the violence intervention.
		In space, right?
		And I, you know, there was a couple years that I was, like, married to, like, the world's biggest asshole.
		And I got to a point that, like, I needed to get, like, restraining orders and this kind of stuff.
		And, like, it was a real shit thing to go through.
		But, like, I'm looking at this insurance thing like I'm looking at our domestic violence laws.
		Like, the cops were straight up like, no, Erica, there's not anything we can do until he hurts you.
		Sorry, we're not going to cover your chemo until you're literally on your deathbed.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like, is there a delineation point for when the insurance is like, okay, now this is necessary?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Maybe when it's, like, actual, like, takeover.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it appears that you're bleeding from your nose.
		I think we can cover it now.
		I can see drips of blood falling from your nose into your mouth.
		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
		Yeah, yeah.
		Like, yeah, I don't know.
		Like, you're turning, like, a certain shade of yellow that, like...
		We have, like, on our color scale.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We pay you yellow.
		That's the good yellow.
		Oh, that's the stuff.
		You don't want the greenish tint?
		That's we don't pay.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		It's that real, like, jaundice yellow, you know?
		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It does seem a bit terrifying that an insurance, like, an actual insurance policy would treat, like, you know, something...
		Like, stage two cancer.
		The same as, like, a cosmetic...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Cancer, period.
		When the word cancer shows up, they should be like, fine, we cover it.
		That feels obvious to me.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So then I, like, start looking through my policy.
		I'm like, I can go have, like...
		Like, what's that surgery?
		Like, the lap band surgery.
		And they would cover, like, a weight loss surgery.
unidentified		But not my fucking cancer.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hmm.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I keep hearing about the BBL.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I keep hearing people reference that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Never heard of it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The Brazilian butt lift.
unidentified		What?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Is that what it's called?
		All right.
		Now we're talking.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I keep seeing tweets about this.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You keep seeing tweets about it?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like celebrities are doing BBLs.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What are you following?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm not following anybody.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Twitter's a mess.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We're learning so much about you.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Twitter's the worst.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		It's a straight-up dumpster fire.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Elon Musk is making me learn about BBLs.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what's going on.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That is an interesting choice for the man.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I accept it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That almost feels cruel, the way that is designed.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Who's your insurance company?
		Can we be mad at them?
		Is it Blue Cross Blue Shield?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I'm not saying it's not, but I'm not saying that it is.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So Jordan's a shit-stirrer.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Listen, when it comes to insurance companies, I will drink their blood.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't give a shit.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So, I mean, right, so, like, I think, like, having cancer that, like, may or may not kill me before my 38th birthday has taught me a couple of things, right?
		One, all right, so let's be fair.
		Like, on December 14th, 2012, my mom was murdered.
		Very shortly after that, I realized, like, shit, Erica, you're born to advocate, right?
		My cancer diagnosis definitely taught me that I'm just about done on guns.
		And I know what's coming next.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The personal journey leads a bit of the advocacy.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I'm a walking fucking billboard for America's policy fails.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It does seem that way.
		A lot of the times, I think a lot of these issues, people have a difficult time grasping a lot of them until they either happen to you or someone you love and it becomes a lot more clear.
		I think that Maybe some of that is a difficult hurdle that we need to somehow figure out how to work into the way we have these conversations.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's very difficult not to force on, to focus on, you know, just like, what the fuck, fucking, what, what, Jesus fucking Christ, I can't believe that anyone would allow this fucking shit to happen.
Shake It All Off 00:02:24
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What do we, what do we, fuck, fuck!
		You know, like that's...
		It's insane.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Scream from the rooftop.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Irritating.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's like a life or death version of that Seinfeld episode with the reservation.
		Keep a reservation.
		That's why I have the reservation.
		We don't have the...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's very frustrating.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		To be insured about things.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		You file those taxes and you can get fined if you don't have insurance.
		Why do I have insurance when they're like, you're going to be lucky to walk away.
		Only paying $100,000 out of pocket.
		$100,000?
		Like, that's more than I make in a year.
		I work for a fucking non-profit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Like, my job pays my bills, but it doesn't pay $100,000 in medical bills.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Like, I'm going to be in debt for the rest of my life because I had the audacity to get cancer?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, that is on you.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		At your age?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		How could you?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		How could you do that to us?
		I really fucked up.
		I really fucked up.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that kind of reality that you can have insurance and still walk away with $100,000 in medical debt for...
		It just...
		I don't know.
		You just want to shake things like an etch-a-sketch.
		You just got to figure out, like, because there is a better way.
		Oh, man.
		Oh, boy.
		It seems like the system that we have, there's no reason to be married to it, you know?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Any child can look at it and be like, oh, no, absolutely not.
		Shake it over and start again.
		Start from scratch.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm realizing as I'm talking that your response is just constantly, fuck it, fuck it, fuck it.
		And mine is like, this is no good.
		Those are the two voices.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, of that activism and the like, I suppose now is a good time to get into the trial.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You were the...
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, also, on that note, on some level, I mean, if you're looking for some kind of a bright spot or some silver lining, at least this didn't happen during COVID, like the worst part of COVID, and it didn't happen during the meat of the trial.
Missed Clicks, Missed Mercy 00:15:17
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I can't imagine, like, having to go through all the things that you've had to go through, I can't imagine that on its own.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But then if you compounded all of that, that would be, I can't imagine.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I had a solid two months before the cancer, after the trial.
		I mean, I did have to, like, you know, mush in that, like, pesky little 10-year anniversary of Sandy Hook.
		But, like, I had a solid two months to, like, completely get my life and shit back together.
		After the trial.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's a bright spot.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that is a bright spot.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Some small mercy, I suppose, from the universe.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, could you talk a little bit about your experience there?
		Like, you were at the trial, right?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I missed one day.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You missed one day?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I did miss one day.
		Yeah.
		I had no idea what to expect, right?
		So, like, we didn't...
		All the families, like, met.
		A couple blocks down, and then we would walk to the courthouse together every morning.
		And it was like...
		I don't know.
		Picture the fucking Oscars, right?
		And there's gates and just media.
		And it's like you're walking the red carpet of death into go deal with this shit, right?
		And as soon as you got like...
		A block away.
		Like, you just hear that, like, click, click, click, click, click, click of the camera.
		Which, like, is so fucking triggering because we had to deal with that so much in the immediate aftermath of the shooting.
unidentified		Like...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		How is the click of a camera going to trigger my fucking PTSD?
unidentified		But it does!
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh no, it makes perfect sense.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And just even the inordinate amount of attention probably is in some ways uncomfortable.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's interesting to me the way you're describing this because we mentioned we were at the trial in Austin and it was absolutely not like that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Dead.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, well, maybe not totally dead, but definitely didn't have the, you know, lots of clicking cameras and, you know, it was pretty...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I mean, to a certain extent, I have a hard time not thinking that some of the fact that the Austin trial became so, you know, public, it became so famously famous for a massive...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It amped your media attention up.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The text message revealed.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Totally, yeah.
		All of the big high drama moments almost certainly led to an increase of media attention because they're thinking, oh, well, we're going to get the same fireworks from Connecticut.
		So sorry about that.
		That's my fault.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Definitely all your fault.
		But also, we're in Connecticut.
		This is like the Sandy Hook community.
		There are not many people.
		You know, above a certain age that are like, oh no, I have no idea where I was at the time of the city.
		It's like 9-11, right?
		This was the 9-11 of gun violence.
		But yeah, just like the walking in was intense, right?
		Like I said, I had missed one day.
		I think it was the first Thursday I wasn't there.
		And the only day, no matter how we staggered or tried to walk, not as a group, or we walked in like...
		Not with our husbands or, you know, the family switched it up to try to trick people.
		The only day I didn't get completely smoked with reporters is the day I cut 18 inches off my hair.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, you learned.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I was like, I'm coming in with short hair.
		And they didn't even look at me.
		And I was like, I wish I would.
		And I was like, I remember thinking, like, oh, I should, like, shave my head for, like, the day of the verdict, right?
		So, like, they won't notice me.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And now I'm like, oh, fuck, I have cancer.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I'm probably gonna have to shave my head.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You could have gotten some practice with wigs.
		Yeah.
		You could have had all kinds of different wigs.
unidentified		Right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I know.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Could have gone with the Groucho Marx glasses.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That would have worked.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Missed opportunities.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Where was my foresight?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I don't know, right?
unidentified		Jesus.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		But, yeah, I mean, actually, like, being in a courtroom was wild.
unidentified		Like...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I never paid attention to this fucking guy, right?
		Like, I knew he was, like, some crazy fucking lunatic.
		And I knew that I was being threatened and stalked and harassed and, you know, like, literally tortured in my daily life because of him.
		But, like, couldn't tell you anything about him.
		Never went to, like, I went to his website, I think, one time.
		The first time I, like, connected the name Alex Jones to the show.
		And I was on the website for like 13 seconds before I was like, yeah, fuck that.
unidentified		That's long enough.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And nothing about him.
		You know everything you need to know.
		Yeah, I mean, that was enough for like seven lifetimes.
		Yeah, it was enough for seven lifetimes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You spent 13 seconds.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So like the things that I learned about him.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Like the things that I learned about him during this trial, I'm like, how can anyone think of me fucking seriously?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's hard to believe.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Turning frogs gay?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It is a little bit weird for us whenever we talk to people outside of our world where they go, how could anybody believe it?
		And we're already so far past that.
		We're like, ah, you're never going to convince people not to believe it.
		Like, we're already on the other side of that.
		You can't fix these people.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I have a slight nihilism about misinformation.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's tough once it has an emotional appeal to people to really grasp the ways that things don't make sense, unfortunately.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		It's wild, for sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		One thing I think must have been really nice, or at least it's something that came through, I felt.
		With watching the trial, we did watch the live streams.
		It seemed like there was a real great solidarity among the plaintiffs, and that probably had to make all of that a little bit easier to bear, I would assume.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I would not have gotten through those weeks without the other families.
		You know, like my husband or my sister would say, like, you know, we really don't want you to go to court alone.
		And I'm like, how the hell am I alone?
		Like, I'm never alone when I'm with these families.
		Like, I'm with my other family.
		You know what I mean?
		Like, I never once, even if it was just me walking in, felt alone.
		You know, there was always a handhold or somebody passing me tissues or Jolly Ranchers or, you know, sneaking me a bottle of water.
		It was really the bright spot of the trial.
		We've all been so isolated and so tortured in our own forms of torture for so many years that we really lost that connection if it ever existed.
		This really gave us the opportunity to catch up and get to know what's going on with each other's lives and see the types of work that we've been doing.
		I don't know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's like a tragic class reunion.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Listening to the testimony of the other plaintiffs, I learned so much about my mom.
		I learned so much about my own story that I had blocked out, but the parts of their story that they were telling filled in gaps that I've been trying to fill for a decade.
		I'm like, Oh, my God.
		So that's how it happened.
		Oh, my God.
		You were the guy that I, you know, handed the thing to on that random day.
		Like, it just connected so many pieces.
		Wow.
		And, yeah, it was really surreal.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Was there pretty significant catharsis that came along with, like, at the end of that trial, whenever everybody's there after the verdict, like, did that culminate into something that all of you, like...
		Celebrated huge, or was it more like a somber, like, finally we're done with this?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I mean, right after the verdicts were read, we walked out of the courthouse, and it was just like, we are doing this, and we are doing this together.
		We all waited in the lobby.
		We walked out at once, and then there was that little press conference.
		Everybody had the opportunity to speak, and we were just like, so together.
		I feel so much more supported in what's going on in my life currently as far as my medical issues and all of that.
		So many of the families that I went through the trial with are contacting me on a near daily basis.
		Had that trial not happened, had I not been on that plaintiff list with these families, I wouldn't have that support from these people who literally mean the world to me.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's really great.
		I mean, awful circumstances, but that's so great.
		I was thinking, too, that probably such a large part of that comes from y 'all sharing...
		Such a unique kind of trauma, you know, a unique experience that is, you know, what is underlying the lawsuit itself of, you know, the denial of your loved one's existence and that it's, you know, that's something that a lot of people probably have no idea what that experience is like, but they do.
		And then I was thinking about it a little more, and there are other people, though, too.
		You know, it's...
		It's kind of scary to think about that there are other folks outside of even just the loved ones of people who were killed at Sandy Hook, you know, who have had that experience as well.
		That's, man.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, the only thing obviously worse than any of that is having to experience it alone.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So it is, yeah, I can't imagine that concept.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I mean, there's been so many times that, you know, myself or one of the other plaintiffs would just be like, this isn't a money thing for us.
		It's never been a money thing for us.
		This is to ensure that we are doing everything we can possibly fucking think of to prevent other families of mass tragedy from having to deal with the fucking torture that we have for the past decade.
		And I would do it again in a heartbeat.
		As much as it hurt, as much as I had to put out there for the world and literally expose the worst things that have ever happened to me, I would do it again.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's very brave.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Since then, do you feel like you're done with this whole chapter, this whole Alex Jones thing, all of this noise?
		You've finished it?
		I know.
		Obviously, you're shaking your head.
		No fucking way.
		I very much kind of knew the answer to that question beforehand, but I was, you know, hope springs eternal.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, you're a creditor now, right?
unidentified		Yeah, well, that's the bankruptcy.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So there's that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I meant not meaning that, but like, you know, psychologically, this experience of, do you feel like you won?
		That's more, I think, what I'm asking.
		That face doesn't say yes either.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		No, so like I look at this, this is a multifaceted thing for me, right?
		So Alex Jones will forever be in my life.
		He has imprinted the worst of the world into my brain and shown me the true depths of hell that exists on this earth.
		And he will be forever part of my story because of the horrible actions that he took after my mother was gunned down in the hall of an elementary school, right?
		He was found liable for all of the horrible shit lies that he spread.
		I was able to have my day in court and hold him accountable for those lies.
		But that's not going to be the end of Alex Jones.
		He is...
unidentified		He's a fucking monster.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And he's not going to stop.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's something that Jordan has stressed over and over and over again.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There is no stopping.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And it's his cult following, right?
		So even if Alex Jones never says Eric Lafferty again, it doesn't matter.
		Because he's already put it in the brains of...
		God only knows how many humans, right?
		Like, when they were breaking down the impressions during the trial, I was just like, no fucking wonder I'm agoraphobic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, what the fuck?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I didn't know the true scale of how many people were an asshole to me.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Seriously.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Like, there are that many fucking assholes in the world.
unidentified		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And it's like, okay, well, like, and that was, like, so, like, like, almost, like, satisfying to me.
		Like, I am not crazy in the fact that I'm terrified to walk into a grocery store.
		I am not crazy that I've moved five times since the shooting.
		I am not crazy that I travel under an alias.
		I am not crazy that I lease cars so that I don't have to have taxes owed in my fucking name publishing my address.
		Like, they could be, it could be anyone, anywhere, and you, like, I never know, and, like, seeing that, like, true scale was really fucking validating.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		But also pretty fucking scary!
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, because...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		There's that many people in the world that think, like, I'm fucking lying?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and it's not just that they think that you're lying, it's that by the nature of the lie, you are...
		Like, running a con on the country in order to facilitate, like, a One World Order takeover.
		Like, essentially, it's...
		I mean, the accusation of the lie is so much more severe than just, like, you're lying to people.
The Human Brain's Wild Twists 00:01:43
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's not just that, oh, Alex says, oh, this is something that's not true.
		It's that something that's not true is part of, you are a...
		A murder cult.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you're an agent of the devil.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You are part of the group killing the entire world.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So that justification allows people to indulge in the absurd amount of abuse they've spewed at you over the past...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And it's crazy, right?
		There are people who I went to high school with that have straight up questioned whether or not my mom was killed.
		And I'm like...
		You fucking knew my mom!
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Yeah.
		That...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You know, that's one of those, though, that you're like, oh, the human brain is just fucked up-able.
		You know, you can really just get in somebody's brain and change things in a way that I don't think any of us are really kind of...
		Prepared to deal with the truth of that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And I think a lot of people misunderstand the idea of if there's smoke, there's fire.
		If a hundred people are talking about this, there must be something to it.
		I think people can get twisted on that a little bit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there's something to be said for groupthink.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		It was a wild, wild, wild experience.
		The day...
		The one day the man had the balls to walk into the courtroom.
Maddie's Courtroom Confrontation 00:15:39
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Like, I made damn sure that I was, like, on the defendant's side of, like, the bench, and I gave his two, like, giant security guards that were paid, like, 80 grand to fucking be there.
		I gave them, like, six inches of space to share, right?
		And I'm just like, I'm listening right next to you.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Nice.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		You know, and then, like, he gets up and he testifies and Maddie's all, like, you know, being badass, Chris Maddie, and Jones is, like, you know, fucking head veins and neck veins and, like, all boys ragey, right?
		And Chris, like, he would slam something down on Jones and then turn around and look at our families and just smirk.
		Like, I wish the live stream showed that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think it came out in his tone a little bit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think there was a little smirk you could ascertain, if not visually.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, generally he was very calm and even-keeled, but there was definitely times when you're like...
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		See, here's the difference between you and Erica, Jordan, is that she bullied these security guards, whereas you refused to sit next to them because you were scared.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No!
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I invited them to sit next to me and then got very scared.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And sweat.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
		So the story, what happened was I was in the court.
		I was seated at the very back pew to avoid bringing attention to my useless self.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, and Mark Banks said there was only one seat for one of us up front, and I took press.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So I had to sit in the back.
		And his security guards came over and they stood right next to me.
		And I turned and I was like, oh, you guys are those guys.
		Do you want to sit right next to me?
		And then I realized that that was a terrible idea because they immediately moved away and then they dispersed around the room and then just started staring back at me.
		At regular intervals.
		So I got so nervous that I started to sweat through my entire shirt all the way down.
		Oh, all the way down.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's a heavily mocked picture of freedom with about four inch pit sweats.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, indeed.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The expert witness on journalism made fun of me.
unidentified		It was a day.
unidentified		It was a day.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		It was a whole day.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It was a whole day.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, but I was just like, I was like, yeah, here, you fucking 250-pound men, you get six inches to share.
		And then, like, I kept, like, scooting closer.
		And then, like, Jones gets off the stand.
		Then Jones gets off the stand, and they're all, like, with their little, like, fucking earpieces.
unidentified		And they're like, we gotta go.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And they rush him out of the courtroom.
		And I'm like, I'm sorry.
		Do you think that I'm a threat to him?
		I'm fucking 5 '4".
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's probably how they experience it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, on some level, you probably are quite a threat, if not physically.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Big bad Erica Lafferty!
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Five inches or five feet and four inches of her, she's coming for you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But what if Alex accidentally has a feeling looking at you and feels regret or something?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's a danger to the business.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That could ruin the entire gig.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So, I had one question.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		So, there was one day.
		Hold on, though, because I'm going to lose this.
		You will regret it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sorry.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		There's one day, right, and it's raining, and I'm walking into court, and Alex is there, and his security guy is, like, under the umbrella, right, and he's, like, walking through, like, our little, like, red carpet of death, like, in between, like, the gates or whatever into the courthouse, and Alex walks in, and the security officers are like, Holding me out in the rain.
		And mind you, I have curly hair.
		And it was before I cut the 18 inches.
		So it was down to the bottom of my back.
		I blow-dried and straightened my fucking hair.
		And they're trying to hold me out in the rain to wait for Alex Jones.
		So I literally made a point with my hands and spread his security guard.
		And I was like, I'm not waiting in the rain for that fucking asshole.
		And walked through his...
		And I'm like...
		You paid $80,000 for these giant bitches to let me just walk through them?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's assault.
unidentified		Actually, I think $35,000 was the umbrellas.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're very expensive umbrellas.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Oh my god, I can't.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		He's out there with a book like, fuck you, Alex.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I had a great moment where there's a picture from the Austin trial of Alex and his lawyer, Andino Reynal.
		And Alex has a piece of tape on his mouth.
		And I think it said, like, First Amendment or something like that.
		And I saw him put the tape on his mouth, and he was posing with his lawyer.
		And, like, I see that picture, and I know that, like, maybe four or five feet away, I am standing with another person who is a listener of our show who was at the trial, and I'm just like, look at this asshole.
		We're just pointing at him standing alone.
		With tape he put on his own mouth.
		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I can't.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I can't.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The question that I was going to ask before Jordan very rudely interrupted you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say not rudely.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I'm pretty sure it was me screaming like, I'm going to lose this and you'll regret it.
unidentified		It was Jordan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It was my fault.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Jordan was the rude one.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'll eat this one.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think one of the things that sticks out the most from the trials, outside of, you know, the family members and other plaintiffs' testimonies, was Norm Pattis' theatrics, perhaps?
		And I didn't...
		I don't know how one would take some of the things that he said, because a lot of it was very offensive.
unidentified		Like, direct attacks at us.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I couldn't understand, because we've not spoken before today, really, and I don't know how someone in your position would take something like, is this awful, or is it almost like...
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, surreal on a I-can't-believe-this-person level.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So, I wish...
		What I wish you could have seen is, like, how he was in the time leading up to the start of court.
		Because I sat in the front row almost every day.
		I sat as close to, like, his side as I possibly could as many days as I could.
		There was, like, one of his, like, fucking patted pony hairs, like, hanging off the back.
		Back of his chair for the entire trial.
		But anyway, he would be like, oh, you're here alone today.
		Or, oh.
		Like, to me and one of the Soda sisters, like, are you guys the sisters?
		And I'm like, no, you know damn well that we're not the sisters.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait, wait, wait.
		I'm sorry.
		Norm was misidentifying you in court.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Correct.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		All right.
		Good.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also, the way you're...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So then one day...
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I have to just make sure that you're not implying that he was being flirtatious.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He probably could have been.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It sounded like it could have.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, the one interpretation of the way you were describing this is, like, almost flirtatious.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		But, like, I don't know, because then there was the day that he talked to me about his wife, the fucking psychiatrist.
		If anyone needs to be married to a psychiatrist, it is Norm fucking Pattis.
		Let me just say that for the record.
		But he tells me.
		His wife has barely spoken to him in months for taking this case.
		Why would you tell me that, sir?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because he's a real piece of shit.
		I think he probably thinks it bolsters his integrity or something like this.
		I have consequences for standing up for Maloney.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, he was showing off to you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Probably.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He was trying to get you to like him.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		He was like, oh yeah, my wife, she's a psychiatrist.
		And I was like, oh, that's lucky for you.
		And I just turned my fucking head.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You know, you have a lot of problems with the insurance business, but Norm has some problems with the woke insurance.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the behavior that he was allowed to get away with.
		Like, the shit that, what was it?
		It was Maya.
		The shit that she let him get away with.
		It was like, in the morning, you would hear her get the lawyers together and be like, Norm, here's all the shit you can't do.
		And then at the trial, she'd be like, hey, I told you not to do that.
		And then eventually she'd just stop stopping him.
		There were so many times.
		What was it like to experience him essentially saying the same shit Alex was?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, it was wild, right?
		And there was so much about me personally that we couldn't talk about because of the nature of my work and the nature of my volunteer work.
		The fact that Owen makes this whole fucking video like, oh, fuck you, Lafferty, you know, and like that couldn't even be presented into evidence because it was too political.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They didn't want they didn't want the fact that they didn't want the fact that so many, if not all of the family members of the and people at the at the trial have.
		Charitable organizations work for non-profits, you know, do all these things.
		Well, no.
		For the most part.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They did not want a lot of the reality, but claiming that you were trying to take everyone's guns is somehow, like, that was still something that Norm Yeah, yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, that's still fine.
		No, no, no.
		That's totally fine.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and, like, that was totally...
		And then, like, during, like, the redirect in my testimony, that, like, back and forth with me and Maddie, like...
		Do you know his stance on this?
		No.
		Do you care?
		No.
		Do you know his stance on this?
		No.
		Do you care?
		No.
		And that was just, like, the highlight of the trial for me was just me and Maddie going back and forth, like, boom, boom, boom.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm hearing the Rocky theme.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Running up and down the court steps.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, like...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I got to meet Bankston, too.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		He came up, and I was just like, oh, my God!
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Mark is pretty fun.
		He's a neat dude.
		The thing with Norm that I thought was the worst, and maybe you'd agree or disagree, was the, like, directly implying that you all were exaggerating your grief.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That, I thought, was almost inexcusable in an opening or closing statement, in any context.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I mean, in a private conversation where no one else but him is talking to a mirror that is fucked up to do.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And it's like, you know, and he like, he like balanced that with like, her grief is because her mom was murdered.
		But he's saying the mom, my mom wasn't murdered.
		Her grief is being exaggerated.
		Her life really isn't, you know, that impacted.
		Bro, I was on the stand testifying about the fucking rape threats that were sent to me when Alex Jones was holding court outside with the press.
unidentified		Mm-hmm.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Trying to fucking pitch his book.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He did have a copy of his book out there.
unidentified		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		He walked into court with it.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Like, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Rape threats.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me that I'm exaggerating about trauma about rape threats?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I still don't...
		I'm still not able to quite hang with how much shit he was allowed to get away with.
		Especially with all the tut-tutting that was going on immediately.
		Hey, we told you this is not a good idea to do.
		You shouldn't have done that.
		Like...
		Yeah, we're way past I shouldn't have done shit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Come on now.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		But then, like, if Coscoff or Maddie ever fucking did that, like, it would have been a whole different story, but it's just like, oh, Norm's Norm.
		Can't control him.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Fuck you.
		That's your job.
		You're supposed to control him.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You don't play by the rules, so we can't enforce rules.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So there's nothing you can do.
		Like, what are you fucking talking about?
		Oh, boy.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Well, we know your client's not gonna listen, so...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Like, if that was me up there, like, she wouldn't just be like, oh, yeah, well, do your best to get her to listen, Maddie.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she just yells a lot.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What are you gonna do?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and I mean, like, the amount of poise and patience that Judge Bellas showed, like, I wouldn't have been able to do it, but, like, what do you do when you have someone who's so...
		Chris Maddy.
		And then someone who's so Norm Pattis.
		Like, what do you do when you're trying to balance that?
		You know what I mean?
		I feel like Judge Bells was this, like, fucking preschool teacher, like, trying to rip the asshole kids apart.
unidentified		Like...
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I...
		Like, they are so different.
		Visually...
		Stylistically, just everything.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I mean, the problem really is he's done so much, Norm, that in a regular real-life trial with real human beings involved, he wouldn't be allowed, he would be kicked off.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He wouldn't be allowed to do this.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But because Alex is there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But because it's Alex, there's just no one else who will do it, and they won't just be like, fine, trial over because Norm sucks so bad.
		You lose.
		Because Norm sucks.
unidentified		That's why.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And he tried to quit.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		He tried to quit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He tried!
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And they were just like, no, no.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We're done with it.
		They pretend that didn't happen.
		Alex and Norm both seem to have forgotten that.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Should have had to defend himself.
unidentified		I have the honor.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I have the honor of representing Mr. Jones.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		The honor.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I hate to be disrespectful at all, and I hope this doesn't come off that way, but when I was watching the trial...
		And I saw when it got to the verdicts, I believe it was Robbie Parker was the first name read.
		And I didn't know what to expect, but I thought maybe a couple million.
		And when it was as high as it was, I blurt laughed sitting alone in my apartment because it was just like it was such a tension release and a like I found it amazing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we were both we were both waiting for it to be.
		Way too low.
		We were both waiting for them to be like, oh, there's a fucking disagreement in the jury because of some asshole or any number of things.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's our pessimism.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		But I mean, we're just so used to not seeing consequences for anyone.
		I mean, the problem, of course, now being is that the consequences are very, very slow!
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, whenever the numbers...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So slow that they might in fact kill me.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's the other thing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I appreciate that you are Revealing how stupid and pointless and useless our medical system is, our insurance system, the legal system, the bankruptcy system, the...
Why Turn Evil? 00:01:36
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		You're probably not paid enough.
		So the non-profit system, any number of different...
		Why are you still a nice person?
		That seems absurd to me.
		There's no villain origin story better.
		I feel like if you had control of weather weapons, you've got free license.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What if?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hear me out on this.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What if this chemo gives you superpowers?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, shit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Then you can turn evil.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Then you can turn evil.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You get full license from Knowledge Fight to turn evil?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we'll allow it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You're a raptor princess.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I love this.
		I love this.
		And I'm going to spin off this.
unidentified		Like, I...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Okay, so one of the other St. Hook plaintiffs was like, Erica, you totally need to get a journal, and you need to start, like, writing things down.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I am going to write my evil villain story in my fucking journal.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Hell yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because Jordan is right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I mean, like, there are lesser wrongs that have created comic book villains.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Yeah, so have you been following along too much with the ongoing bankruptcy stuff?
		Have you been getting regular updates, or are you kind of just like, Let that be handled by other people.
Two Crazy Things Here 00:12:21
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So our legal team does like they'll send an email anytime something like biggish happens and they're just like, hey, family meeting and we'll hop on a doom.
		They'll explain the things that we should be retaining and they're like, we'll let you know if we need you to do something kind of thing.
		I was Doing a better job of keeping up with stuff until...
unidentified		No, that's a fucking lie.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Fair, fair.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I was like, I was really trying.
		But then I was like, well, it was really only until like, it was like that first month, right?
		Like, because, you know, the trial ended and then it's like, I had a couple weeks to breathe and I was like, kind of paying attention.
		But then it's like, we're rolling into Thanksgiving, I get slammed with the 10-year, and now my tumor thing, and my life just went completely batshit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		With perfect circumstances, this is still even complicated to keep up with.
		I can't even imagine trying to carry that.
		But it's got to be still just like, even if you're not following, it's still just got to be annoying, I imagine.
		It's still lingering.
		Yeah.
		It just won't, like, it won't end.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It just won't end.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So, like, I, it haunts me that I have this narcissistic, sociopathic, roid-ragey, vodka-drinking monster that owes me, like, a hundred million fucking dollars.
		And I am crowdfunding.
		For life-saving treatment so that I don't die before I turn 38. That is the reality that I'm living in right now.
		It takes me a lot to hate someone.
		I am not going to lie and say, I didn't hate Alex Jones.
		I fucking despised the man.
		But now?
		Give me those evil powers.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it doesn't take much for me to hate people.
		And believe me, it goes far beyond Alex Jones in this whole situation.
		You've been failed by...
		Beyond the number of people that I can even comprehend, and I hate all of them.
		So that helps.
		If that helps, then I give you permission.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You got the wrath of Jordan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, it's absurd.
		If I think about it for too long, I really start to go blind.
		Like, it really does make me very, very, very, very angry.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And I think one of the problems, too, like, especially as it relates to this bankruptcy, and even to some degree, like, the trial stuff.
		What the person who obviously is to be hated, Alex, is doing is exploiting things that are meant to protect well-intentioned people who get caught in these systems.
		Various legal loopholes and chapter 5 protections and reorganization of businesses.
		It's just malicious abuse of these things that are meant to protect people.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And it's just fucking stupid.
		Here's my theory, alright?
		As far as the list of creditors goes, whoever has cancer is the number one creditor and gets taken care of immediately.
		I feel like that's simple.
		If you've got an emergency, just do that first.
		It's an emergency.
		You can handle all the other shit later.
unidentified		Why would you ever think that you should be allowed for a year of bankruptcy court to go on?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's fucking insane!
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that could be life.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah!
		Is there people to call?
		No, they don't give a fuck.
		They're lawyers.
unidentified		They'll just send a letter saying, stop calling us because they're the people who can do shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm doing all right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm okay.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And meanwhile, like I have this GoFundMe and I am sending a personal thank you to every single donation that comes in.
		I am still working full time.
		I have my husband.
		I have five siblings.
		I have my grandmother who like...
		Bless her sweet little heart.
		Like, I talk to as much as humanly possible.
		I have five asshole dogs, my three stepkids, right?
		Like, the house.
		And I'm trying to do all of these things.
		But at the same time, like, fundraising is my top priority to not die.
		Despite the fact that this asshole's like, $40,000 a month isn't enough to live on.
		Fuck off, Alex Jones!
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, if I think about that too hard.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I start to go blind.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		He should auction off one of those umbrellas his security guards had.
		Oh, boy.
		Give it to the GoFundMe.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no kidding.
		Hey, in the budget, we can afford $100,000 every month for security.
		But we're going to have to figure out the creditor situation later on.
		Sorry.
		Sorry about that, Erica.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It is such a difference between, like, the...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Good luck with the cancer, kid.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Because he has, you know?
		He has all these resources, and it sucks.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It is bananas.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I'm glad, you know, at least in the...
		You know, sense that there is some positive that people are supporting and rallying around.
		Although, just today, I believe there was that Vox article that came out, and you were talking about how there's this bittersweetness.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I believe it was Vice.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Vice, excuse me.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's this bittersweetness of the, you know, that you are getting support, and then at the same time, it's predicated on your mother being murdered.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And that is...
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So hard to wrestle with, that reality.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You know, and it's fucking crazy, right?
		Like, I've been living my life on this very public platform for the past decade.
		I was thrown into that.
		I didn't really have a fucking choice.
unidentified		That gave me what I need.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		To survive.
		It gave me name recognition.
		And it gave me...
		I mean, I don't know how else to say this.
		If I didn't happen to be the daughter of a victim of a high-profile mass shooting, people wouldn't give a fuck.
		And I would not be able to raise the $100,000 that I need to survive this.
		That is just a fact of life, right?
		So like, there's two crazy things here.
		There's one, a reason that I almost feel I need to be thankful that my mom was murdered, which is fucked up all on its own.
		And two, it's largely in part because of Alex Jones that I have found any sense of External support.
		Right?
		Because without Alex Jones, there would not be you two.
		Without you two, there wouldn't be the wonks.
		Without the wonks, there wouldn't be the $20,000 spike in my GoFundMe.
		So it comes full fucking circle.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You know, if it weren't for Alex, maybe we would have had gun control and we wouldn't be here.
		That's kind of one of those situations where I recognize those kinds of Cognitive dissonance aspects to it.
		You know, it is like...
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's kind of literate.
		Like literature kind of irony, perhaps.
		But it's still like...
		It's too much credit to give him.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's none of him.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		In spite of him.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It is actively against his wishes.
unidentified		I like that.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		In spite of him.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Right, and I love that, and I love that because there are other people in this world that feel about Alex Jones, how I feel about Alex Jones, that I am getting the support that I desperately need.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, we're thrilled to be any part of that.
		It's great.
		I mean, I think one of the things that's been really wonderful about doing this as a whole is like...
		Being able to, in some way, take something that is so awful, which is Alex and his content, and transmute it into something that can be positive for folks.
		And that, I mean, definitely never was what I expected, but it's so fantastic.
		It's a testament.
		Do the listeners.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, absolutely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
		When I started comedy, I was planning on talking about my penis for the rest of my life.
		I was going to be like, this will do it.
		This is going to take me to the top.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I have the most interesting penis.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So fucking interesting.
		It'll fuel a comedy career.
		It'll be the end now.
		And here we are doing maybe the thing that is most honorable that I can think of to do in my life.
		I am grateful to the Wonks more than anybody else.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Definitely.
unidentified		Oh my god.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		The best collection of humans.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That guilt, though, is so fascinating to me.
		I don't want to press on it, but I've been thinking about that since I read that article.
		That dynamic of something that is the trauma of your life also It's fascinating,
		and then at the same time, there's that offshoot of it that you had that is the, if it weren't for this, you wouldn't be in a position where people were rallying around and giving support.
		I think, obviously, there's such a tragedy that's built in about the insurance system.
		And then, I don't know.
		How do we create something where people who aren't in your position who need help get that help?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, really, what we're talking about here is none of this would be necessary.
		You wouldn't even be feeling this if we had a medical system that fucking functioned.
		You know, like, we wouldn't be here.
		You wouldn't have to feel grateful towards any of this bullshit.
		It would be taken care of because you're a human being.
		They're like everybody fucking else, you know?
		And so it is a tragedy not of anybody's individual actions so much as it is the entirety of society is organized wrong.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I think I spent, after my mom was murdered, 10 years trying to reduce the number of gun deaths and injuries that we see in this country.
		And I think this just gives me a focus for my next.
		Decade or several.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Better be.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's fantastic.
		I think we'll all look forward to seeing what comes out of that and what advocacy follows.
		And I think, I feel like we just got to find obscure GoFundMes.
		That's what we should do.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we should just dig and find obscure GoFundMes and try and help people.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		My husband and I were saying, like, anything, right?
		So, like, we opened this whole separate checking account, and, like, every single penny from the GoFundMe is going in there, plus, like, we have, like, the...
Hand Tattoos and Phone Numbers 00:06:05
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Did you guys see my wristbands?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		They say Lafferty V. Lymphoma.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's great!
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's great!
unidentified		Fucking what?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah!
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Lead planet!
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So many of the wonks, right?
		So many of the wonks.
		Monks have been, like, emailing Lafferty Dube Boma, like, at gmail.com to, like, get the fucking wristbands or whatever.
		I'm like, so all this money, like, right, it's going directly into this other, like, medical-specific account.
		And my husband and I keep saying, like, okay, as soon as I'm, like, they're like, okay, you are cancer-free, kid.
		We are going to, like, hunt through all of the GoFundMes.
		And find the situation most similar to mine and just donate 100% of whatever is left.
		And I cannot wait to be the person that the wonks have been to me and just...
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's fantastic.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Relieve the stress.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's not supervillain shit.
		What are you doing?
		You need to be building machines to take over the world.
		What is wrong here?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		That's for my journal, and that's for act two.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		See?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There we go.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, I think you're on act four by now, honestly.
unidentified		You've got a lot more acts than anybody could imagine.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You've got Titus Andronicus level of acts going on here.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So I'm so grateful for your generosity with your time.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's been really nice to talk to you.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's been amazing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I have one other question, though.
		I do notice.
		We used to have a phone number that was our call in line.
		I was trying to find an anagram of something.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh my god, you're going to ask the same question?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I was going to ask the same question, but anyways, keep going.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The only thing that I could find as a phone number that made words was tat guys.
		And so Jordan and I decided we were the tat guys for a little while because we both have tattoos.
		And I saw on your arm you have some prominent tattoos.
		And I was wondering if you had any that were particularly cool tattoos.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I was legitimately waiting for the chance to ask you this question.
		He got there first, that asshole.
		Oh my god.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Alright, so this one is probably my favorite.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		It's my mom's signature.
unidentified		With a heart and smiley face.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		So this was left on a note that said, Dear sweet baby Erica, please stop drinking right now.
		You're scaring me.
		Smiling face harsh, mommy.
unidentified		You didn't get the whole message tattooed on your hand?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I would have been like, what?
		And then, yeah.
		So this is my mom's quote.
		Be nice to each other.
		It's really all that matters.
		I used to have rubber.
		Well, I still have rubber wristbands that say it, but I got sick of...
		So it's just, like, there.
		I have an apple.
		And then this is, like, allow yourself to fly.
		And fly high are things that, like, my mom frequently says to me in dreams.
unidentified		Pie is my oldest nephew's birthday.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Is that fly high on your middle finger?
unidentified		Fly high, motherfuckers!
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		So, alright.
		This is the sleeve.
		Oh, wow.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Nice.
unidentified		That's Axel and Jinx.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, so these are the dogs.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And Jackson and Roxy.
		Oh, that's beautiful.
		And I still have one getting jealous.
		It's like right by the camera right here.
		Brooklyn and Bella still need to get worked in.
		And then I have disheartened hate.
		I got that after the Pulse nightclub shooting.
		I have so many.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Is there something that the dogs have to do to qualify for tattoo status?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They have to become raptor princesses, of course.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I feel like maybe it's like a sainting thing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Do they have to perform a miracle?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Three posthumous miracles in order to be eligible.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I mean, if it was up to me, like...
		You know, if I had, like, the money that Alex Jones owed me, I would get every dog I ever saw in my life tattooed on my body.
		I would probably have to gain, like, 5 million pounds.
		And I would also need the money that I'm owed to be able to afford it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		To gain 500 pounds, you're going to need that.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, live long enough.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, sure.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So there's that, too.
		What the fuck?
		Yeah, but, yeah, no.
		So I can really get behind cat guys.
		Awesome.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Our phone number doesn't work anymore, so no one should call that.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		It's pretty impressive, though.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think it was maybe an interview that you did, and I saw also the sleeve of tattoo, and I was like, for some reason, I saw you testify, and I just never thought sleeve of tattoo.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It didn't come off.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So my lawyers were like, air cut.
		There are some really conservative people on this jury who need to not look like you.
		And I'm like...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You can't be a tat gal.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's 2020 goddamn two, okay?
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I was like, I have three tattoos on a hand.
		Like, on my Bible hand, bro.
		I can't hide them.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Jordan has a hand as well.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I got a full hand tattoo.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Wedding ring.
		I can hide mine.
		My tats are very...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I have both hands.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm like, I can't hide on my hands.
unidentified		I can't.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So, yeah, I was all like principal's daughter that day and not like the hellion that the principal actually raised.
unidentified		The one that can't drink.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Right?
Color of Specific Cancer 00:03:53
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, we should probably wrap this up, because we've been going for almost a good hour and a half.
		Yeah, give or take.
		So, you know, I don't want to take up your whole day, but thank you so much for chatting with us.
		I never would have imagined in a million years when we started this podcast that we would end up having a friendly conversation, sort of...
		Not that it would be unfriendly.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say, what was the other alternative?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Very formal.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That makes more sense.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Kind of conversation with a plaintiff in the Sandy Hook case.
		It seems like everything is very surreal.
		We have a lot of respect and admiration for what you've gone through and how you've...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And we're grateful to play the small part that we have in a positive way.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		It was not a small part.
		It's incredible.
		Don't compliment us bullshit because you guys did a really good fucking thing that you should be really proud of.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We did a terrible thing, and that is that we don't publicize or, like, promote ourselves at all, and so that's probably why you had no idea we existed at, you know, times when you could have enjoyed...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I was, like, mad tweeting, someone put me in touch with them, and I was like, wait, why don't I just ask Bankston?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		We're good buddies.
		At least it's not public.
unidentified		At least he didn't release it on a docket somewhere.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		He didn't, like, quote...
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Tweet me and be like, here it is.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was good timing.
		Thank you.
		Thank you so much.
		That was jinx.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you have anything else that you want to promote, but we'll add a link.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I know that a lot of our listeners have already found your GoFundMe, but we'll add a link to that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		We just got a fresh batch of Lafferty.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		V-lymphoma rinsed wristbands in.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I love it, but the only problem that I have is that it's yellow.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that Lance Armstrong?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		It's the color of my specific cancer.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		But it's the color of my specific cancer.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That makes sense.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay, that trumps Lance Armstrong.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		All right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's a cheater.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I mean, fuck him too.
unidentified		Yeah.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, so for the hookup on those, Laffrey V-lymphoma.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Lymphoma at gmail.com.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Thankfully, our audience is good at spelling.
		Lymphoma in an email address.
		That's a recipe for things going to the wrong place.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I hope nobody has Lafferty v. Lymphoma because they're going to get a lot of emails recently.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Well, and it's all over the socials and all that stuff.
		They've found me on there and they have been...
		Coming in droves with the love and positivity, and I will be eternally grateful to all of them.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We are grateful for them as well.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, hopefully we'll talk again sometime down the road.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, maybe like pre-evil transition.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that'd be great.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		If you need someone to workshop some evil plans with...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm so good at it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we're good at punch-up.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		All right.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		So I'm just going to start, like, taking random pictures when I'm not drinking, Mom, of the journal, the evil journal, and just sending them off to that private email address that I have.
Caller Huge Fan 00:00:37
unidentified		Perfect.
unidentified		Okay.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		To just, like, just, like, spitball ideas, you know?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Awesome.
unidentified		Okay.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		For my evil takeover.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sounds good.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We have an eye for narrative, especially for comic book characters.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We can make this work.
unidentified		All right, so we won't draw this down any further.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Thank you so much, Erica.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
unidentified		Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
		Thanks for holding.
		Hello, Alex.
erica lafferty ▲ ● ▼		I'm a first-time caller.
unidentified		I'm a huge fan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I love your work.

Chapters

00:00:21 Dan's Bright Spot: Jedi Survivor
00:03:08 Was It Negotiated?
00:05:48 Gummy Worm Wonk Donation
00:09:53 Cancer Diagnosis Revealed
00:24:56 Shake It All Off
00:27:05 Missed Clicks, Missed Mercy
00:42:08 The Human Brain's Wild Twists
00:43:36 Maddie's Courtroom Confrontation
00:59:01 Why Turn Evil?
01:00:22 Two Crazy Things Here
01:12:29 Hand Tattoos and Phone Numbers
01:18:20 Color of Specific Cancer
01:21:58 Caller Huge Fan