#750: Formulaic Objections Part 11
Today, Dan and Jordan continue their exploration of the depositions of Infowars employees by examining a 2019 interview with Alex's dad, Dr. David Jones.
Nov. 23, 2022 - Knowledge Fight
01:19:26
Participants
| 
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys. | ||
| Knowledge fight. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Dan and Jordan. | |
| Knowledge fight. | ||
| We need money. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Andy in Kansas. | |
| Stop it. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| It's time to pray. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your room. | ||
| Knowledge Fight. | ||
| KnowledgeFight.com I love you. | ||
| We're a couple dudes like to sit around, worship at the altar of Selene and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. | ||
| Oh, indeed we are. | ||
| Dan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Jordan. | |
| Jordan. | ||
| Quick question for you. | ||
| What's up? | ||
| What's your bright spot today, buddy? | ||
| My bright spot today is, you know, I know that we're going into the Thanksgiving week. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And a lot of people have a lot of feelings about Thanksgiving, as they well should. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| But, you know, it is, at best... | ||
| Take away a lot of the trappings. | ||
| It's a time to think about things that you're thankful for. | ||
| And, you know, I'm thankful for you, Jordan. | ||
| I'm thankful for our audience. | ||
| And, you know, having a moment to think about these things and how great and how many things we have to be thankful for is a very humbling and nice experience that I've had the last couple days. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| You know, I actually almost prefer when I had fewer things to be grateful for. | ||
| Because now that I have so... | ||
| So much to be grateful for, it freaks me out. | ||
| It's like, no, no, no, no, no. | ||
| I deserve way less than any of this. | ||
| I would prefer... | ||
| Give me one third of the things to be grateful about. | ||
| It's overwhelming, but in a positive way, and thank you all. | ||
| I'm very, very grateful to you, to the audience, to thinking of my family. | ||
| To the jury that awarded $1.5 billion, baby. | ||
| It's another thing to be grateful for, to be thankful. | ||
| We've played whatever small role in that, as I did, and we did. | ||
| So it's your bright spot, now that I've set you up to bring up a fucking album or something. | ||
| Far less, far less touching and deep, but more important for most of the world than Thanksgiving. | ||
| In fact, by a wide margin. | ||
| That would be the World Cup, my friend. | ||
| I am enjoying it immensely. | ||
| Have you broken out your Vuvuzela? | ||
| I have not. | ||
| It's been, what, a decade, probably. | ||
| That was the Brazilian World Cup. | ||
| That was like two World Cups ago. | ||
| But it was big. | ||
| It was huge. | ||
| They were very loud. | ||
| The trend was unstoppable. | ||
| Undeniable, yeah. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| It's really great so far. | ||
| Everybody's fun. | ||
| The USA's still terrible at soccer, which is enjoyable. | ||
| Tell that to Marcelo Balboa. | ||
| Tell that to Tony Miola. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Tell that to Alexi Lalas. | |
| Tell that to... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Who else you got? | |
| I know. | ||
| I see a face. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh-huh. | |
| Nope, I got nothing. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| But who's the favorite, you think? | ||
| Italy? | ||
| Well, I think people were hoping for Argentina because it's Messi's... | ||
| Argentina's a great historical soccer country. | ||
| Maradona, naturally. | ||
| And then Messi, this is Lionel Messi's last World Cup. | ||
| And he is, of course, the greatest footballer maybe that ever lived. | ||
| So everybody's really hoping for them. | ||
| Then this morning, this very morning... | ||
| They lost in a surprise upset to Saudi Arabia 2-1. | ||
| So now they're in a deep hole. | ||
| They're fighting to get out of the group stage. | ||
| Now it's dangerous. | ||
| It's dangerous. | ||
| What tension? | ||
| It's exactly what someone who's so messy like Messi would be into. | ||
| He lives for the drama. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| Who else? | ||
| Who else is looking good this year? | ||
| France. | ||
| France is looking good. | ||
| They get Zinedine Zidane back? | ||
| No. | ||
| I think England's looking pretty good. | ||
| They're probably going to come out of the group stage of the United States. | ||
| They're pretty fast. | ||
| Nice. | ||
| You know, other teams are good. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Netherlands. | ||
| I know their country. | ||
| A lot of people have good feet. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| That's science. | ||
| I am excited for you to enjoy, and I like hearing about the World Cup. | ||
| Yeah, it's great. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's fun. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| But, Jordan, today we have an episode to go over. | ||
| Oh, interesting. | ||
| And we'll talk about that here in a second. | ||
| But before we do, let's take a little moment to say hello to some new wonks. | ||
| Oh, that's a great idea. | ||
| So first, whose mind control is more powerful? | ||
| Realistic birds or globalists? | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you! | |
| Next, Cindy with an I. Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you! | |
| Next, the monetary personification of Alex's daughter's abandonment issues. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Next, I may have misunderstood the point of the Fuck Dan in Illinois support group. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| What? | ||
| Inappropriate. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Next, Lila B. Enraptured by Raptures. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Let me try that again. | ||
| Next, Lila B. Enraptured by Raptors. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Nice. | |
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| That was there as a trip up. | ||
| That was a spike on the road. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's what that was. | |
| I felt good about it. | ||
| Until it came out of my mouth. | ||
| Yep, that's how it was. | ||
| Next, PSL as the best seaman. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Pumpkin spiced latte. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Semen in the lattes. | ||
| Ah. | ||
| According to Reverend Manning. | ||
| Oh boy, wow. | ||
| Deep cut. | ||
| That is a deep cut. | ||
| Deep cut. | ||
| Well done. | ||
| So this is, we have a technocrat in the mix also, Jordan. | ||
| This is someone who sent a message a while back because we're, you know, this inbox is a mess. | ||
| We're the best. | ||
| But this is Veronica asked if she's a policy wonk and I have an answer and that is no, you're not. | ||
| You are now a technocrat. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| I have risen above my enemies. | ||
| I might quit tomorrow, actually. | ||
| I'm just going to take a little breaky now. | ||
| A little breaky for me. | ||
| And then we're going to come back. | ||
| And I'm going to start the show over. | ||
| But I'm the devil! | ||
| I've got to be taken over here! | ||
| Fuck you! | ||
| Fuck you! | ||
| I got plenty of words for you, but at the end of the day, fuck you and your New World Order and fuck the horse you rode in on and all your shit. | ||
| Maybe today should be my last broadcast. | ||
| Maybe I'll just be gone a month, maybe five years. | ||
| Maybe I'll walk out of here tomorrow and you never see me again. | ||
| That's really what I want to do. | ||
| I never want to come back here again. | ||
| I apologize to the crew and the listeners yesterday that I was legitimately having breakdowns on air. | ||
| I'll be better tomorrow. | ||
| He probably isn't, but we don't know. | ||
| Oh, no! | ||
| Because, Jordan, today we are continuing to have Alex on the present day on timeout. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Good call. | |
| Because I feel like if it's Thanksgiving, there's one thing we should be thankful for, and that is being able to say, hey, Alex, go yell about nonsense. | ||
| We'll be back. | ||
| We are not beholden to your yelling timetable. | ||
| Listen, we'll catch up with you when it's a war on Christmas. | ||
| We'll get there. | ||
| We move at our own speed. | ||
| And Thanksgiving is also a time for family. | ||
| You know, like I mentioned, certainly thinking about my family. | ||
| And what better way to celebrate Thanksgiving on our show than to enjoy the deposition of Alex's dad. | ||
| So today we're going to be talking about Dr. David Jones, his deposition. | ||
| The Connecticut safety hook case. | ||
| Well done. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| That was some sleight of hand right there. | ||
| It's tough to trick you at this point. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Gears in. | ||
| You know a lot of my normal moves. | ||
| I wasn't expecting the David Jones deposition. | ||
| You had me on that one. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You've got me clean there, yeah. | |
| I'd like to know that I've still got a few options. | ||
| An eyebrow fake. | ||
| That's the great part of our relationship. | ||
| We're still learning new things. | ||
| You gotta keep it fresh with a David Jones deposition from time to time. | ||
| With AJ's dad. | ||
| So, as we know, Alex's dad is, he is a dentist by trade. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| He is somebody who is the sixth smartest boy in Texas. | ||
| Technically speaking. | ||
| Or maybe, that number is variable. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But yeah, he was one of the smartest boys in Texas, and so the globalists tried to recruit him into a program of eugenics to kill off the population. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Naturally. | |
| And he said, no thank you. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| And they just... | ||
| We're like, alright, cool. | ||
| Goodbye. | ||
| No big deal. | ||
| Why don't you tell your blowhard son about this in a few years? | ||
| Just because we revealed to you via, I suppose, very obvious means that we have a secret program that we used to... | ||
| Before you agreed to join. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| We're just gonna lay it all out for you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| That's how we do it. | ||
| And by the way, our plan is to kill off the entire world, but we're gonna leave you alone. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| The guy who knows our plans and could possibly thwart them by telling your blowhard son who has a radio show and millions of listeners. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Now you're just piling on. | ||
| He is the subject of fables on Infowars, for sure. | ||
| Former Bircher, at least. | ||
| Possibly current Bircher, but we'll see. | ||
| I would say he probably doesn't pay dues anymore, but he's certainly a Bircher in ideas. | ||
| That didn't end up stopping. | ||
| But yeah, he was a John Birch Society lecturer in his younger years. | ||
| Yeah, there's a lot that I know about him. | ||
| In facts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| You know, like, I know real facts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And then I know Alex facts about him. | ||
| But I don't know that much about him in general. | ||
| I had not really even seen pictures of him before the deposition. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| I had not really heard his voice. | ||
| I don't think I'd ever heard his voice. | ||
| I've never heard his voice. | ||
| Because he never has come on InfoWars. | ||
| Alex has said he refuses to. | ||
| Smart. | ||
| So he's at least a fairly smart boy in Texas still. | ||
| So in 2019, he sat for a deposition with Chris Maddy, and Norm is there. | ||
| Our friend Norm Pattis is representing him. | ||
| And I think that this is a shorter deposition as a whole. | ||
| It's probably about an hour long all day. | ||
| And I think... | ||
| That it still has some pretty interesting things being said by Alex's dad. | ||
| And maybe some things that didn't help the case. | ||
| Oh yeah? | ||
| So let's jump right in with David Jones. | ||
| Can I ask you a quick question on tone? | ||
| Before we get going and the actual tone is revealed, I would like to know, I'm predicting he's going to be somewhat combative. | ||
| Just kind of like an aloof asshole. | ||
| Maybe a little aloof. | ||
| I wouldn't say he's super combative. | ||
| He's not... | ||
| Forthcoming. | ||
| Ah, okay. | ||
| All right, all right. | ||
| He's withholding. | ||
| Yeah, and I think there's something, I appreciate you bringing up the sort of tone, because there is something I'd like to point out, and you can take note of as we go along. | ||
| And that is that he is very, like, much smarter than Alex. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| He is very good at not answering questions while answering them in a way that kind of has the appearance of answering. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So is this going to be the first time that we are looking at somebody who is about to get trapped going... | ||
| Oh, well, I know this is a trap. | ||
| Maybe even a step before that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Being like, I'm not even going to wander into that. | ||
| Wow. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, boy. | |
| Dangerous. | ||
| So we start here with a discussion of his coming to Infowars. | ||
| Gotcha. | ||
| When did you retire from your career as a dentist? | ||
| I still have a license, but I retired from active practice in 2013. | ||
| And is that when you became involved in the operations of free speech systems? | ||
| That is when I became more formally involved. | ||
| So we got a Texan here, my friend. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| Oh boy. | ||
| Yeah, he's got much more of a voice that you'd kind of expect for someone of... | ||
| The sort of Jones character. | ||
| Right. | ||
| He's somebody who has not spent the first 20 years of his career doing a Rush Limbaugh impression. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Thereby destroying any chance at all of an accent any longer. | ||
| I would say that if Alex sounded like this, there'd be a little bit more of a... | ||
| I don't know if he could do his delivery. | ||
| Ah, no. | ||
| This is syrupy, smooth sort of Texan. | ||
| This is an accent that's more of a drawl. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He's taking his time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, before he left his sort of practice of his dentistry in 2013, even before that, he was part of the business as just like it was a family business. | ||
| He says something kind of weird here. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| What was your role before then? | ||
| Just as being involved in an advisory role as, say, in a family business. | ||
| So Alex would sometimes ask you for advice about the business? | ||
| Occasionally. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Did your involvement include anything other than providing Alex with advice? | ||
| No. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And then in what types of matters would he ask for your advice on prior to 2013? | ||
| Largely what my perceptions were about things that were going on in the world. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sort of a moral compass, if you will. | |
| Okay. | ||
| So, for example, Alex might be considering covering a certain story in the news and would discuss that with you. | ||
| Not so much as, like, did you hear such and such and what did you think of it? | ||
| That's the type of question he would ask you. | ||
| Yeah, that's basically what he would say to me. | ||
| In other words, largely he wanted to know what I thought of his expressions and things, but I don't know how much I influenced him. | ||
| Papa, Papa, what do you think of Fentanyl the Chinese Dragon? | ||
| It's an interesting thing for David to say that he is the moral compass. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Particularly because he's starting in 2013 to be more involved with the business, and this is around the time that Sandy Hook coverage is going on. | ||
| If indeed he is a moral compass, then you would hope that there would be plenty of evidence of him being like, Alex, stop this. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And Alex may be listening or maybe not. | |
| It's entirely possible that you could imagine a scenario where even though he's Alex's dad Of course. | ||
| It raises the expectation of, like, what did you do as the moral compass? | ||
| I mean, if you were to describe to me... | ||
| No, if you were to say, Jordan, describe what the moral compass for Infowars looks like. | ||
| I would say it is cracked. | ||
| The glass is completely removed. | ||
| The white and the red lines are exactly the same. | ||
| They're just one color. | ||
| It's spinning in all directions simultaneously and somehow constantly being thrown out the window. | ||
| Ongoing act of being thrown out the window. | ||
| So what you're saying is it's not, it wouldn't be useful. | ||
| I wouldn't, I wouldn't lay claim to being one. | ||
| I wouldn't be like, ha ha, I know what my role is. | ||
| It maybe doesn't have true north. | ||
| It doesn't, it doesn't seem to be functioning. | ||
| So yeah, he gave, you can kind of see a little bit in there the way that there's a dancing around question. | ||
| Oh yeah, no, I instantly, this is a man who understands the concept. | ||
| Like, I don't know what he thinks the consequences are or any of that stuff. | ||
| But they are there. | ||
| He's a person who knows, like, in an almost scientific, like, if I remove this tooth, there will be blood. | ||
| Like, in that kind of sense. | ||
| So if I say this, there will be blood. | ||
| He understands cause and effect. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Unlike Alex. | ||
| Unlike anyone else at InfoWars. | ||
| So, yeah, he's saying that he kind of, like, gave advice and, like, all this stuff. | ||
| And it's like, okay, so you're saying that He would ask you about what stories to cover. | ||
| It's like, no, no, no, I don't want any of that shit. | ||
| Whoa, whoa, whoa. | ||
| Hold on, hold on. | ||
| Let's calm it down, sir. | ||
| So in 2013, he became more involved with the business. | ||
| And at this point, he entered into what I would describe as a very bizarre financial arrangement with InfoWars and Free Speech Systems. | ||
| Right. | ||
| This doesn't last very long. | ||
| This is only the arrangement that they have for a year or so before another arrangement kicks in. | ||
| But this is wild. | ||
| In 2013, did you become an employee of Free Speech Systems? | ||
| I became indirectly an employee of Free Speech Systems. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Why was it indirect? | ||
| I had a professional corporation that contracted with large dental practice management groups, and that corporation lost its income when it lost me as an employee. | ||
| And so that entity, my professional corporation, was paid lost opportunity fees, and it paid me to be an employee of Alex Jones and Free Speech Systems. | ||
| Free Speech Systems paid the corporation that you controlled. | ||
| For lost opportunities as a result of retiring from your dental practice, and that corporation that you controlled then paid you a salary in connection with your work for Free Speech Systems? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Understood. | ||
| Why was it arranged that way? | ||
| For purpose of winding down in continuity. | ||
| It was probably not important, but it was a reality. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| Did there come a time when that arrangement changed and you became an on-the-books employee of Free Speech Systems? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| When was that? | ||
| I believe that was the next year. | ||
| 2014. | ||
| That's weird. | ||
| But I don't know if it's necessarily suspicious or anything. | ||
| Yeah, that sounds like some sort of taxes thing. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| It's not tax evasion, but it's like, hey, if you do it this way, there's 20% extra for something or other along the way. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| That's possible. | ||
| Write-offs or something. | ||
| Or even less sort of sneakily, there could be a situation where he was the primary center of that dental practice. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| And maybe transferring over to somebody else being more like the center. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| It is unusual insofar as it's a... | ||
| Clear evidence of somebody who knows the financial system is doing something to their benefit. | ||
| It seems like if it was a practical issue about the dental practice itself, maybe there would be a way that you could have a buyout or something. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Anyway, I don't think it's too nefarious or anything, but I just thought it was weird. | ||
| I don't think this one is nefarious, but I do think this is an evidentiary point that suggests there are people at work with financial information that they are capable of exploiting in certain ways. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And thus, the line between legal and illegal may be just a bit of a problem. | |
| matter of who enforces what, you know? | ||
| Well, and, you know, this is Alex's dad. | ||
| So there is also the consideration of, like, having your dad come to work for you was important enough that you did this Byzantine arrangement. | ||
| Why is that? | ||
| What's the purpose of this? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It may not be shady as an arrangement, but the surrounding circumstances of it make it feel quite shady. | ||
| The moment Alex Jones is involved, it's shady as shit. | ||
| That's fair enough. | ||
| So, David Jones, as we know, was the Human Resources Director. | ||
| Indeed. | ||
| During that first year, or thereabouts, between 2013 and 2014, did you have a title? | ||
| At Free Speech Systems? | ||
| I was sort of a consultant and an HR director. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| But not really. | ||
| There we go. | ||
| Not really a title, or you weren't really those days? | ||
| Not really a title. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah, they just are allergic to titles at InfoWars. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They can't. | ||
| No one will own a title. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I mean, if you have a title, then you are responsible for the thing that that title does. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And that's legally dicey. | ||
| Rob Dew's the news director until anyone asks him about it. | ||
| He doesn't direct news so much as he's just kind of a consultant at large. | ||
| Alex owns the company until, like, no, I don't. | ||
| Well, he doesn't own it. | ||
| They owe so much money to his dad's company. | ||
| That he also owns. | ||
| Well, just because he owns that company doesn't mean they don't owe the money. | ||
| I find that, again, to be shady. | ||
| The way that no one has a title. | ||
| I was genuinely excited because I was like, finally, I get to know what HR means in this context, and immediately the rug is pulled. | ||
| Nah, I didn't really do that. | ||
| What? | ||
| What are you talking about? | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| He did do it. | ||
| No, I know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sort of. | |
| But that wasn't his title. | ||
| That wasn't his title. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But what did he do? | ||
| I don't expect to find out. | ||
| I'm not. | ||
| I'm just not. | ||
| Because like I said, I think he's pretty good at not answering questions. | ||
| And I take it that from 2013 through the present day, your responsibilities have evolved. | ||
| Fair to say? | ||
| It's been a full-time engagement. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But what you've done during that period of time has changed over time. | ||
| Fair to say? | ||
| In the sense that anyone's job changes over time, there are vagaries that come up from day to day that result in different challenges. | ||
| I'm asking mainly about your principal responsibilities. | ||
| And so what I'd like you to do then, sir, is just describe for me from 2013 going forward what your... | ||
| Responsibilities have been at Free Speech Systems. | ||
| Largely just to be sure we have a good environment for our employees. | ||
| That we're compliant to state and federal guidelines and that we do. | ||
| Business properly. | ||
| I do a little bit of this, a little bit of that. | ||
| I mean, that is the most non-answer you can get. | ||
| Yeah, but it feels like an answer, sort of. | ||
| Have your responsibilities changed? | ||
| Insofar as life brings change to us all on a daily basis. | ||
| As the leaf turns orange and falls from the branch. | ||
| Are you giving me a haiku in response? | ||
| Is that what's happening? | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is some Texas poetry. | |
| All right, buddy. | ||
| Calm it down. | ||
| Yeah, but it's tough to break through this. | ||
| What do you do on a daily... | ||
| Give me a rundown of your day. | ||
| Just hour by hour. | ||
| I gotta make sure that our employees are in a good state. | ||
| What is that? | ||
| Is that 9 a.m.? | ||
| Do you get there at 9? | ||
| 9 to 10, I make sure that... | ||
| That's my state of being hour. | ||
| So I think this next clip sums up some of that stuff a little bit, but also don't expect an answer. | ||
| By the way, is that true generally of the other areas of the business that you are often involved in solving problems as they arise? | ||
| Our business is a... | ||
| Single-talent business that is driven by one party, and I endeavor to take care of some of the delegated duties that it's not convenient to be done by the principal. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| I think I understand that. | ||
| The single-talent. | ||
| I'm not sure I do. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Who do you report to? | |
| I report to Alex, if anyone. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Who else reports directly to Alex? | ||
| Everyone. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| So everyone reports to Alex. | ||
| He is the sort of all roads lead to Alex. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so you don't understand what he was saying? | ||
| Well, I understand that what he was saying was, you know, AJ does everything. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And what he doesn't do, I do. | ||
| Yeah, whatever is inconvenient for him to do. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But again, without a job. | ||
| Not an answer. | ||
| Not an answer. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What do you do? | ||
| I get what you're saying. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You're forcing me to infer so much of your responsibilities by saying, you know, he does everything, and when he doesn't do something, I probably do it. | ||
| What is it exactly that is inconvenient for Alex to do? | ||
| Well, you know, all the stuff. | ||
| He's a single talent. | ||
| This is very annoying. | ||
| He doesn't want to do some things. | ||
| It's a little frustrating. | ||
| I'm screaming in my head. | ||
| Just tell me what you do! | ||
| So we may not find out exactly what they do, or he does, or anyone does. | ||
| Of course not. | ||
| But another thing we don't find out is how much he makes. | ||
| And that is because Norm is insistent he doesn't say. | ||
| Oh, of course. | ||
| Are you currently employed by Free Speech Systems? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| In the same capacity that you've been describing? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And what's your salary, sir? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is that necessary, Chris? | |
| It goes to bias, doesn't it, and credibility? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Everybody does. | |
| So here's what I'd like to do. | ||
| I'd like to write it down and give it to you if the court orders it. | ||
| I'm concerned, given the way some of the depositions have been publicized, and I'm not accusing you of anything, that this would become public domain information. | ||
| So what I'd like to do is have him write that number down. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We keep it under seal unless and until the court orders that it be publicized. | |
| This is agreed to, and so his salary is written down on a piece of paper or something, and it's not revealed. | ||
| My instinct about that, it feels like it's probably a lot then, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| I don't think it would necessarily need to be something that is fought to keep under wraps if it's a normal salary. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, let's go to the tape. | ||
| How long, how many zeros did he, you can see the little swirling motion with his hand, right? | ||
| How many zeros did he write on that little piece of paper? | ||
| I believe that it was probably written down during the break while they were off the record, so it's not on film. | ||
| Goddammit, Norm. | ||
| Yeah, because they go to a break after this request is made, and so the actual tape stops, and then the tape picks back up. | ||
| Alright, well, if it's okay for us to find out that Owen and Daria make an absurd amount of money for being shitty. | ||
| Then I'm guessing David makes well over a million dollars. | ||
| I'm sure they pay him an absurd amount. | ||
| I mean, the fact that he has the interest in PQPR, too. | ||
| He knows everything. | ||
| Everything. | ||
| It feels like whatever compensation he has has got to be... | ||
| I mean, obviously, if I were Norm, I'd probably be like... | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no. | |
| It's going to look bad if... | ||
| Hey, okay. | ||
| And definitely don't tell them that you got a massive bonus right before this deposition. | ||
| Do not reveal that you received several million dollars hours before you walked into this courtroom. | ||
| So they get to talking about the employee handbook. | ||
| Which exists. | ||
| It does. | ||
| Inexplicably, it does. | ||
| And then there's a revelation here. | ||
| Free Speech Systems has an employee handbook, correct? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| When did that come into existence? | ||
| It and its permutations have existed for a long time. | ||
| Went into effect? | ||
| Was it before he got there? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| Do you know who drafted it? | ||
| Probably Holmantaube and Summers. | ||
| That's a law firm? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Holman? | ||
|
unidentified
|
T-A-U-B-E and Summers. | |
| Is that a law firm here in Austin? | ||
| And they merged with Waller. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And then since you've come on board, you said that employee handbook has had different permutations? | ||
| As we became larger, when you have 50 or more employees, there are other duties you have, and so we elected to co-employ, free speech elected to co-employ with ADP total source. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| What? | ||
| What does that mean? | ||
| It means that we have a partner in our HR development and administration. | ||
| That is a division of ADP that co-employs our employees. | ||
| Forgive me. | ||
| What is ADP? | ||
| The largest data processing company in the world that does payroll. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So they provide a back office function to process payroll for employees? | ||
| And to help assure compliance with duty, leave, Employment handbook issues, notice, and process. | ||
| Do you have a point of contact at ADP that you deal with? | ||
| Yeah, we have a corporate representative, and I don't remember what her name is. | ||
| Okay, so you don't deal with that person regularly. | ||
| No. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| So this is what a human resources department would do. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they've outsourced it to ADP. | ||
| So ADP basically does all of this stuff. | ||
| That's what I'm trying to understand. | ||
| There is a contact person there, and the presumed HR person at Infowars, Alex's dad, doesn't know her name and hasn't talked to her in a while. | ||
| What is the human resources? | ||
| I really want to stress this, Mr. Jones, a great deal. | ||
| What do you do? | ||
| What? | ||
| Do you do, sir? | ||
| Sir? | ||
| So much of what has been in my experience in places that I've worked, what the HR department does, you're describing as ADP. | ||
| Yes, you are. | ||
| So what you're telling me is that you don't have a job because you contract that job out to another company. | ||
| And I'm just now finding this out, and I've never heard of this other company before. | ||
| We're on year how many of us suing you? | ||
| Now, ADP, what they're doing, it sounds like that would be stuff that would be inconvenient for Alex to do. | ||
| So that seems like it would be what you do, but you don't do. | ||
| But you don't do that. | ||
| Now, staying in touch with ADP and being on top of the human resources stuff that they do, that also would be inconvenient for Alex, but you also don't do that, apparently. | ||
| It doesn't seem that way. | ||
| Very confusing. | ||
| What do you do, sir? | ||
| Do not expect an answer. | ||
| I mean, I'm shaking. | ||
| I am shaking him by the shoulders until his head walks back and forth. | ||
| It's not going to help. | ||
| So we get to talking about marketing strategies. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| And there's an interesting bit of phrasing work that's done here. | ||
| Am I correct, sir, that you are personally familiar with... | ||
| Free speech systems, marketing, and business policies? | ||
| To the extent that they exist, yes. | ||
| And what? | ||
| You're personally familiar with free speech systems, marketing, and business strategies, correct? | ||
| Free speech systems, marketing strategies, to the extent that they exist. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So, I'm not saying that they exist, but if they do, I know about them. | ||
| I mean, listen, I know about the inner workings of Elrond's Council as well, but it does not really exist, now does it? | ||
| So I can't really be held responsible for what Elrond's Council does. | ||
| Au contraire. | ||
| You will be held responsible for Elrond's. | ||
| Oh, that's not good. | ||
| Yeah, this seems like a real nice non-answer answer again. | ||
| Because the answer, even if to the extent they exist, is... | ||
| Even if that is an accurate answer, then the answer is yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But what's the answer? | ||
| To the extent they exist. | ||
| Yes, but I mean, what is the extent that they exist to? | ||
| You're trying to couch some sort of caveat into your answer. | ||
| You're trying to bake that in. | ||
| I understand. | ||
| It's infuriating. | ||
| But I mean, what are the policies? | ||
| To the extent that they exist suggests that something exists somewhere. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So what is it? | |
| Maybe. | ||
| What is the thing that exists? | ||
| Well, we won't know immediately, but we do know that there was a sworn statement that David Jones signed that had to do with elements of the marketing plan that are confidential and proprietary. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Scream at people. | ||
| Maddie wants to know what about this is confidential and proprietary, and boy, this is annoying. | ||
| Dr. Jones, I want you to take a look at paragraph 11 of your declaration. | ||
| Starting with that second sentence. | ||
| I am aware that plaintiffs seek information and documents, among other things, related to the business and marketing plans. | ||
| And then I just want you to skip to the end of the above entities. | ||
| Right? | ||
| So I want to focus specifically on business and marketing plans at the moment. | ||
| Okay? | ||
| Well, of the above entities, some of those above entities didn't really exist or have any marketing plans. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| I'll get to that. | ||
| But I just want to make sure that we are operating with the same set of facts here, that you were aware at this time that the plaintiffs were seeking information and documents related to free speech systems, among others, free speech systems, business, and marketing plans, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| All right. | ||
| And that information, am I correct? | ||
| You attested was confidential and proprietary, correct? | ||
| It was my intent to testify that some of that could be proprietary, that there was confidential information such as people's names, addresses, Social Security numbers and things, because often on our tips line, people would use that as a means of getting through to customer service. | ||
| They thought it was a quicker pipeline to effectiveness, and oftentimes there was information that we were prohibited from sharing with people, and it was my concern that was going to be scattered all over the known universe. | ||
| None of that information would be contained in a business or marketing plan, correct? | ||
| I'm sorry, what? | ||
| That seems reasonable to me. | ||
| And highly valuable to free speech systems, correct? | ||
| Well, if you don't know how to do business, you can't do business. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fair. | |
| So, correct? | ||
| So, tell me what the business plan or plans were that you were referring to as confidential, proprietary, and highly valuable. | ||
| Essentially our core philosophy is what was involved, and I don't know that I really should have been concerned because it's probably not articulated in paper in any place. | ||
| What the fuck is going on? | ||
| So, let me ask you what you took away from that and see how you are processing information here. | ||
| Alright, so here's our strategy. | ||
| When a thing happens, we react and make people mad. | ||
| But, if you write that down, people will be like, that's... | ||
| That makes you sound like an evil person who's trying to make people angry. | ||
| So we keep it all in our heads, buddy. | ||
| There's no marketing strategy! | ||
| There's just death screaming at you! | ||
| Maybe you're close. | ||
| But there is something that's mildly infuriating about this back and forth and how this goes. | ||
| It's like, okay, in your sworn declaration that you made here, it says that there are parts of the marketing and business plan that are confidential and proprietary. | ||
| What does that mean? | ||
| Well, you know, some people use our tip line as a, you know, put their credit card information or personal information in there. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Cool. | |
| Has nothing to do with the business plan. | ||
| Is that your business plan? | ||
| Nope, certainly not. | ||
| I guess it shouldn't be in there. | ||
| Okay, what's your business plan? | ||
| Well, look, it's just an idea. | ||
| It's just a, and maybe it's not confidential. | ||
| Maybe I, but he swore in the statement that the parts of it are. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's not even on paper, and maybe it's just our core philosophy. | ||
| That maybe it's not on paper is a misunderstanding of a business plan. | ||
| Now, I recognize that perhaps they didn't go to a traditional bank in order to get a small business loan, thus requiring a suite of business plans necessary to present in order to get that loan. | ||
| I understand that Alex's dad bought him a show, which is a nice way to do it if you can do it. | ||
| But I'm pretty sure you still have to write down a business plan sooner or later if you've hired a law firm. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, here is what this boils down to. | ||
| The primary philosophy that may or may not be confidential. | ||
| Essentially, our core philosophy is what was involved. | ||
| And I don't know that I really should have been concerned because it's probably not articulated in paper in any place. | ||
| But in reality, it has to do with the fact that our customers are so loyal to us that they believe in what we're doing to such a degree that if we say something is good for you and is a good value, they're going to buy it and buy a lot of it. | ||
| And, you know, you don't really... | ||
| It's hard to articulate that, but the core of the heart of things can sometimes be very simple and very valuable. | ||
| Understood and agreed. | ||
| The business plan... | ||
| Well, I think what you just described is a component of the business, but is it fair to say that there is no written business plan pertaining to free speech systems? | ||
| There is a business plan, but it's in Alex Jones's head. | ||
| I said written. | ||
| Is there any written business plan? | ||
| No, probably not. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So Alex just has an idea in his head of how things are supposed to go, and then it's never articulated, not put on paper anywhere. | ||
| I don't find this believable. | ||
| I appreciate that what he essentially danced around there was like, we lie. | ||
| We lie to them. | ||
| Because they believe what we say about other shit, then we lie to them about our products. | ||
| Our business plan is our audience will buy whatever we tell them to. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| That's our business plan. | ||
| We have so captured them and trapped them in an alternate reality that they view us as a source for all reliable information, thereby making our... | ||
| Bullshit products so much easier to sell to them than literally anyone else on this fucking planet. | ||
| Jim Jones didn't have a fucking business plan. | ||
| So, there's still the question of, like, what is confidential and proprietary? | ||
| Right. | ||
| And David will not be specific. | ||
| You were also aware that the plaintiffs were seeking information and documents pertaining to free speech systems, marketing data. | ||
| In sales, analytics, and web traffic. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Which you described as confidential, proprietary, and highly valuable, correct? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| What marketing data in particular is confidential, proprietary and highly valuable that Free Speech Systems maintains? | ||
|
unidentified
|
The core facts of... | |
| What our prices are for things, what it costs us to buy materials, what we sell per year, what ages we sell those to, and things of that nature. | ||
| Any business has trade secrets. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And do you consider that to be marketing data? | ||
| I probably would, but I don't look at that. | ||
| I understand. | ||
| And the different pricing trends and... | ||
| Profit margins, do you consider that to be included within sales analytics? | ||
| I don't know what the definition of sales analytics is, really. | ||
| To me, it's like it could cover a whole multitude of sins. | ||
| It's hard to know what it means. | ||
| Understood. | ||
| And I also understand that perhaps you didn't prepare the first draft of this declaration, but this is a term that you swore to. | ||
| And you made certain representations about in your declaration. | ||
| Excuse me, sir. | ||
| Let me finish, please. | ||
| Let me finish. | ||
| So what I want to know is, when you swore to this document, did you understand sales analytics to include the things I just described for you? | ||
| Pricing, pricing trends, profit margins, and data of that nature? | ||
| Not necessarily. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Okay, not necessarily. | ||
| But did you, in fact... | ||
| Consider that to be included within sales analytics. | ||
| When I'm asked a general question or something's expressed in general terms, it doesn't necessarily include the specifics. | ||
| Well, that's what I'm asking you, is what, in your mind, was included in the term sales analytics when you included it here? | ||
| The reasonable connotations that a reasonable man would assume. | ||
| And you're a reasonable man, so you tell me, what is included? | ||
| I'm not going to speculate. | ||
| Norm? | ||
| So, why don't we take a brief break? | ||
| That's infuriating. | ||
| That is like playing tennis against the drapes, as they say. | ||
| As frustrating as a Daria deposition was. | ||
| Because she was, in many ways, she was trying to do this. | ||
| Because she's... | ||
| Weird, evil psychopath. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It came off like she was a weird, evil psychopath who was occasionally being like, I'm not going to answer that, and then stepping into the trap. | ||
| Yeah, he's just slippery enough. | ||
| He's so annoying. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's not like... | ||
| I hate you. | ||
| It's more just like, man, I swear to God. | ||
| I swear to fucking God. | ||
| There's only so much one man can take. | ||
| I dare you to say that one more time. | ||
| This isn't on me. | ||
| This is in front of God and the law. | ||
| There is only so much one man can take, sir. | ||
| So I have a theory that I have from the past couple questions and answers, and I feel like I might be onto something here. | ||
| So when David is talking about the things that are secret and proprietary trade secrets, I think he's specifically just talking about the profit margins they make on things that they sell and how much money the business brings in. | ||
| This is the information that he and everyone at Infowars desperately doesn't want to be made public because if it does, that threatens the stability of what David has described as the primary business plan the company has. | ||
| Their entire marketing strategy relies on the audience trusting Alex. | ||
| They've been suckered into believing that they exist in this false reality where the globalists are coming to get them and the only hope they have is this lone, brave voice in Texas. | ||
| He's on a mission directly given to him by God against agents of the literal devil, and God has granted Alex discernment and insight into things that are beyond normal mortal. | ||
| So when Alex tells you that you need water filtration systems to combat the globalists trying to poison you with fluoride, the audience is likely to believe that. | ||
| When Alex tells them that they need to take his special iodine to give themselves a higher IQ, which is only lower because the globalists have deprived them of iodine, the audience buys in. | ||
| If the audience's faith in Alex is shaken, these propositions would start to sound dumb, so it's pretty critical to protect Alex's image at all costs. | ||
| Certain things are acceptable to acknowledge, like Alex's problem with alcohol, because he can use that to appeal even more to the audience as an imperfect vessel doing the Lord's work. | ||
| On the other hand, if the audience were to actually understand the financial underpinnings of InfoWars and free speech systems, and they realize the scam Alex has been running on them for over a decade, it's a bit harder to defend. | ||
| If the audience understood the millions of dollars Alex takes out of the business for himself, if they saw his ridiculous houses and lavish lifestyle, if they know what he spent on luxury, if they knew how high his profit margins were on the bullshit placebos that he sells them, That could have a high chance of eroding the trust that the audience has put in him. | ||
| And without that, there is no business. | ||
| And I think that this is more or less, if you read between the lines, kind of what David is saying. | ||
| Well, I mean, I don't know. | ||
| I feel like it might be against the law, but it could not be because we live in hellscape. | ||
| But if what I'm hearing is correct... | ||
| He doesn't want to give the actual costs that they spend on the stuff, the actual profit margins and all that stuff. | ||
| It's proprietary. | ||
| But, more importantly, Alex says that shit on the show all the fucking time. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| So if that stuff is not true, if he's constantly repeating, we're giving you the best prices on the blah blah blah, and we're not, we're marking this down 50%, and we're not making a dime off of that. | ||
| He does speak in specifics on there, too. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Yeah, that's an interesting... | ||
| Question for the Federal Trade Commission. | ||
| That seems like it would be lying if that stuff wasn't true. | ||
| It would be manipulative advertising. | ||
| False advertising, perhaps. | ||
| It would be false advertising, right? | ||
| That is an interesting question that, again, the FTC might have some thoughts about. | ||
| Yeah, I just don't know why the big crimes that cause all the problems aren't crimes, except for they make all the money and then you can buy the government to make them legal. | ||
| Yeah, that's a flaw in the system. | ||
| It does seem to be that issue, yeah. | ||
| So, I think that this is the dynamic, really, that's going on, is that, like, if the audience understands that the business aspect of this is manipulating and using them, essentially, they lose faith in that, then there is no more money coming in, and this whole thing goes kaput. | ||
| Even if they believe us about the globalists and these other things, even if that is retained, then this whole thing collapses. | ||
| The business, the market of it, is no longer workable. | ||
| He's basically saying our business philosophy is fraud. | ||
| Our core philosophy. | ||
| It's fraud as holy war. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| Our business philosophy is the church. | ||
| Is that what you want to hear? | ||
| So this next clip involves something that was played in the trial itself, and it was a very unfortunate thing for David to say about emulating spikes. | ||
| Oh yeah, I remember that. | ||
| Are you aware whether free speech systems... | ||
| It collects data concerning when during an Alex Jones broadcast it has the most sales activity. | ||
| Only in the sense that if there have been days where we had extraordinarily good sales, someone will say, "What was Alex saying when that happened?" And so we like to emulate spikes. | ||
| And so that would be done on the fly, but it's not done by any analytics you would think of in terms of a calculus. | ||
| Right, so there's data that free speech has available that can show a spike in activity. | ||
| Theoretically, that would be possible to do. | ||
| If you knew certain things happened on certain days, then someone who had access to analytics could go in and determine that. | ||
| I see. | ||
| And on those occasions where there have been spikes in sales, as you said, that's something that free speech systems would reasonably try to emulate. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Well, that's unfortunate, combined with the clear data that exists that there was a gigantic spike in sales after Wolfgang Halbig was on and the day they posted that article about the FBI saying that no one died at Sandy Hook. | ||
| And so, yeah. | ||
| I mean, those two things put together, without that testimony from David Jones, I don't think anybody else at InfoWars would have said that. | ||
| It's wild that, to this point, it's fairly clear that David is the cagiest of them all, and is capable of slippery, slipping through a lot of little cracks in the fist. | ||
| But I don't know how he revealed maybe the most important line in any of these depositions. | ||
| I have a thought about that. | ||
| And I think that's because he didn't know what was in some of the emails. | ||
| That had to be it. | ||
| He knew and had to have known that they weren't turning over access to Google Analytics data and stuff like that. | ||
| And withholding certain things. | ||
| But the snapshots of... | ||
| Like Google Analytics reports that were attachments in emails. | ||
| I would assume that he just doesn't know that those are there. | ||
| And so this doesn't seem like that threatening of a thing to say. | ||
| Because why wouldn't you, if you were doing a business, why wouldn't you lean into the things that work? | ||
| Of course. | ||
| Basically. | ||
| And that's all he thinks he's saying, I'm sure. | ||
| And if you assume that you're not getting the information on what exactly worked when... | ||
| Then, yeah, you just say something that seems reasonable. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| And unfortunately, in concert with the information that is available, this just literally says... | ||
| Well, of course we would recreate and redo and keep pursuing Sandy Hook stuff because it was profitable. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, what I'm saying to you is if something makes a lot of money, i.e. | ||
| Sandy Hook coverage, then we would continue to do it, therefore making more money. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| Yep. | ||
| So, part of the business is investment in supplements. | ||
| In as much as, like, you gotta get a new formulation. | ||
| You've gotta invest in the creation of these supplements. | ||
| And sometimes they pay off, sometimes they don't. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Now, leaving aside the fact that most of the products that Alex ends up selling are just private labeling of... | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| There isn't really that. | ||
| I don't think they have a lab where they're doing R&D or something. | ||
| Yeah, what are they talking about? | ||
| We invest in product development? | ||
| I think what he's trying to say essentially is that you maybe buy a lot in bulk and then sometimes something doesn't sell. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| I think that's what he's saying. | ||
| That's what makes more sense. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But you can parse this yourself. | ||
| You said in paragraph 13. That Free Speech Systems had invested significant resources into developing their business and marketing strategies. | ||
| So my question for you is, can you describe the level of investment into those strategies and when those investments were made? | ||
| Well, let's say developing a new product. | ||
| It costs $200,000. | ||
| And if it doesn't sell well, you basically eat that or have to sell it at wholesale. | ||
| And so you learn the hard way certain things sell and certain things don't sell. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I see. | ||
| So Free Speech Systems actually pays to develop the products it sells on its store? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And those investments have risen under the order of hundreds of thousands of dollars with respect to certain products? | ||
| Those would be the minimum cost, generally. | ||
| I mean, the smallest thing you can do and buy cost-effectively is probably in the $30,000 to $50,000 category, but it's hardly worth the effort to do it. | ||
| So there's a substantial amount of risk involved in producing a product that doesn't move. | ||
| And so the providing data and information about those products Business and marketing strategies would result in revealing the level of investment that went into those. | ||
| Yes, that's true too. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And that was something that you were hoping at this time to prevent from disclosure. | ||
| It sounds a little paranoid, but there are certain political groups that have some enmity toward our... | ||
| We're a platform which is primarily informational. | ||
| We're ideologically driven and we want to promote a message that has to do with traditional American values. | ||
| And we believe that there are people that would like to put us out of business. | ||
| And we think that the knowledge of what our true financial condition is could be used for harm. | ||
| Understood. | ||
| So, there's a couple ways that you could interpret that. | ||
| If people knew what their actual financial state was, it could lead to harm. | ||
| You could think that that means, like, well, if people knew how poorly they were doing, and that they were that close to the edge, that it would hurt them. | ||
| But I don't think that makes sense. | ||
| No. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You could interpret it as if people knew how well they were doing, it could hurt them. | |
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Because that could be used against them as a, look at this pile of cash they have. | |
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I think that's a possibility. | |
| But actually, I think taking this as a thought that branches off of the supplement conversation and stuff, I think that what he's actually saying is more to the effect of, If they knew who we private-labeled from, they could put pressure on them and they wouldn't allow us to sell their products. | ||
| I think that that's more what we're going at here. | ||
| Like, because Alex knows that he can't take sponsors and stuff because unless they're like Mike Lindell or somebody who's like already super fringe and immune from any kind of pushback that comes from it. | ||
| I think that's what David's saying in this. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It can't be that he thinks... | ||
| Obviously it's not, oh, if people knew that we were doing poorly. | ||
| Because if you combine that with the political thing, then what would happen is he's describing people clowning on them. | ||
| They'd mock them. | ||
| That wouldn't be damaging to them politically. | ||
| And it actually could be advantageous in some ways because the audience would rally to the aid of their heroes. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The only possibilities, as far as this question is concerned, is... | ||
| If people knew what we were doing and how well we were doing, they would try and stop us. | ||
| So the less they know about what we're doing and how well we're doing, the less people bother us. | ||
| It does. | ||
| It feels like it. | ||
| Yeah, it could be whatever it is. | ||
| It's like, well, we're on thin ice for something. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| So the dynamic of covering things because they drive sales and stuff comes up. | ||
| The part of the crime. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And are you aware of circumstances where in those occasions there was a spike in revenue that it was decided by Alex and perhaps others that they would try to recreate that spike by covering the same story or returning to the same story? | ||
| No, I'm not aware of that. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That's just something that you intuit would have happened? | ||
| It's just something I've observed. | ||
| Wait, so you've observed it, but you're not aware of it? | ||
| In that regard. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| I've observed, for example, if people are being stressed out about the idea of there being very dangerous flu things out there and stuff, and we have found that there is a product that is... | ||
| Licensed by the FDA to be a good surface disinfectant, and actually you can make claims along those lines. | ||
| If there is a headline that the Disease Control Center in Atlanta is saying that flu is up five times, and we say we have something that we believe will support your immune system, and I personally use it as a hand sanitizer, you know, that kind of puff resells well. | ||
| Oh, that kind of puffery sells well. | ||
| Now, this is interesting because this is in 2019. | ||
| This is before COVID. | ||
| And we know from watching the way that COVID is covered and the way that Alex tries to sell the silver products, it matches up very closely and very well with this puffery, as David Jones might say. | ||
| And, I mean, he's not saying this. | ||
| But the way Alex did sell those products that you can make claims about was fraudulent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| He was mixing up his internally taken silver with the topical silver in terms of its ability to protect or ward off viruses. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| And this, my friend, not good. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| That is just... | ||
| It could not be more clear. | ||
| After watching There Will Only Be Alone Survivors, followed by, oh, it's all a lie. | ||
| You just need silver. | ||
| It's like, well, your take is money. | ||
| That's your take on things. | ||
| And if you have to do some puffery. | ||
| That's what you need to do to get money. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| So, the subject of gun fear comes up. | ||
| Alex talking about they're going to take your guns all the time. | ||
| And Matty asks if this is something that is helpful to drive sales. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And Papa Jones has an interesting take on this and then realizes he said something he shouldn't have and you can see him double back on it. | ||
| He moves to strike the record. | ||
| And when Alex covers stories that... | ||
| Amplify that concern. | ||
| Has it been your experience that increases both traffic to the website and people trying to buy products to protect themselves? | ||
| It's counterintuitive, but negative issues that are depressing and are a bummer tend to hurt sales. | ||
| Hurt sales. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| We sell a lot better when Alex is cheerful. | ||
| And enthused about everything and what winners we are. | ||
| When he's mad at the world because things were screwed up and we're losing our rights, people tend not to buy. | ||
| And have you seen that borne out by the data? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| You have? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| That's data that's maintained by free speech systems. | ||
| It's not maintained. | ||
| I would say it's anecdotal, but I am pretty good on anecdotal experience. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Wow! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That yes to the is there data is like, oh, I fucked up. | ||
| Wait, it's anecdotal. | ||
| So obvious. | ||
| So obvious. | ||
| What a fun little trap. | ||
| That is like, okay, all right, that is a good answer. | ||
| What do you do? | ||
| You know, like just constant little sneak it in there. | ||
| And if you accidentally answer, you revealed a lot more than you wanted to. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Have you seen the data, sir? | ||
| Oh, yeah, there's sheets of it. | ||
| Oh, no! | ||
| I've seen sheets of anecdotal stories of data. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah, what are you fucking talking about, man? | ||
| Smooth, smooth, smooth. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Also, if people buy more when Alex is happy, maybe he should try being happy more. | ||
| Because maybe they wouldn't be in such financial straits if he wasn't screaming and threatening to go off air pretty regularly. | ||
| Maybe everybody would be better tomorrow. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Maybe. | |
| So the subject of NDAs comes up. | ||
| Non-disclosure agreements that everybody, except Alex's dad apparently, has signed at Infowars. | ||
| Great. | ||
| And Norm shines in this clip. | ||
| I want to talk a little bit about non-disclosure agreements. | ||
| When did Free Speech Systems first start requiring employees to enter NDAs? | ||
| From the very beginning. | ||
| Have you signed an NDA? | ||
| No. | ||
| Are there any other employees that you're aware of who have not signed an NDA? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| You're the only one. | ||
| I think so. | ||
| Were you asked to sign an NDA? | ||
| No. | ||
| When you say from the very beginning, What's the beginning for you? | ||
| Well, the beginning to me is when Alex moved out of his house and on to Mary Street. | ||
| And I don't know what year that was, but it was probably 2005 or 2006. | ||
| And your understanding is that from that time, he started requiring every employee hired by Free Speech Systems to enter a non-disclosure agreement? | ||
| I believe so. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Was that 2005, Chris? | ||
| My attention left. | ||
| And that's a ballpark figure. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It could be two or three years before or after that. | |
| Norm coming in with a I wasn't paying attention. | ||
| Whoops, fell asleep again. | ||
| My bad. | ||
| My bad. | ||
| Listen, I just hope I don't fall asleep in the courtroom or nothing. | ||
| Am I right, guys? | ||
| I'm on the ball. | ||
| What was that year? | ||
| What are we? | ||
| Oh, I wish I had woke insurance. | ||
| Awoke insurance. | ||
| Awoke insurance. | ||
| So, that's somebody who pokes you. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| So, NDAs are pretty important when you don't want people talking shit about how many fake stories you tell. | ||
| There is that. | ||
| How you lie about everything. | ||
| It's smart. | ||
| But there's another reason. | ||
| Oh! | ||
| Do you have an understanding yourself of why it is important to free speech systems to have their employees enter nondisclosure agreements? | ||
| It's a useful communication tool. | ||
| What? | ||
| And particularly it is of interest if people are making, if people develop, let's just say, mental health issues. | ||
| And one of the things that we... | ||
| Meaning they get it back? | ||
| ...offered Mr. Jacobson was some psychological help because we thought he was not congruent with reality, and ultimately his EEOC complaint was dismissed. | ||
| Okay, so if I understand what you're saying is that one of the things that a nondisclosure agreement prevents is if somebody becomes mentally unstable, the company's protected from what they might say after they leave the company by virtue of the nondisclosure agreement, right? | ||
| Well, it's not too effective with people who aren't thinking well, but if people are thinking well, they can be aware that they have duties that could have consequences if they are imprudent and... | ||
| I mean, just to put it in basic terms, isn't the purpose of the NDAs that free speech systems use to prevent employees from disseminating information that is proprietary to free speech systems, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I could have put it that way to begin with instead of saying in case somebody has a mental health crisis and can't talk shit about us later. | ||
| Weird way of describing the reason for an NDA. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But also that is completely fallacious because you're saying that if somebody has like a mental break or whatever after they leave then NDA is helpful for getting them to not say bad things. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| But if they're not thinking correctly then it doesn't do anything. | ||
| It wouldn't matter if they have an NDA. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| It's just, it's nonsense. | ||
| This is such a... | ||
| I mean, I appreciate the true Orwellian doublespeak of an NDA is good for communication. | ||
| But actually, I think it is. | ||
| Because it's communicating, you shut your mouth. | ||
| I mean, it communicates one thing very clearly. | ||
| That is true. | ||
| That is very true. | ||
| We will come for you. | ||
| So, the subject of customers comes up. | ||
| And this kind of bummed me out a little bit. | ||
| Real sad. | ||
| Some of these customers have been around for a long time. | ||
| Oh, God. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| Do you have a percentage in mind of what percentage of Free Speech Systems revenue is derived from product sales from Infowars store? | ||
| No. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Do you have a ballpark? | ||
| Possibly. | ||
| Something like 80%, probably. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And then the remainder is comprised of donations from... | ||
| It used to be from subscription services and some advertising and things like that. | ||
| The core customers are very important to us and one of the strange things that occurred is when we were deplatformed everybody thought we would go away but many of those core loyal customers were customers of ours before they even knew what the internet was basically. | ||
| So they either used telephone numbers or knew what our email address was or whatever so they could do it. | ||
| But deplatforming has hurt us with acquisition of new customers because the search engines not only don't send us, they tell people, they tell 2 billion people, if you link to Alex Jones or Infowars and don't say you're doing it so you want to criticize him, we're going to take you down and kill you too. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa! | |
| You exaggerating a little bit? | ||
| No, not at all. | ||
| All right. | ||
| That bums me out so much because what he's saying is more or less like, well, when de-platforming came around, everybody thought we would go away, but it turns out, joke's on you, we have people trapped even more tightly than you even imagined. | ||
| Yeah, I was going to say, ha ha, you can de-platform us from the internet. | ||
| Surprise, all of our customers use phones! | ||
| Right. | ||
| Old Man House Phone. | ||
| Oh my god, Old Man House Phone has been keeping us afloat for 50 years now. | ||
| But he does express something that I have made a point of a lot, and that is the financial impact of the deplatforming is largely going to be felt in the acquisition of new customers. | ||
| New people coming into his revenue stream is hurt by the lack of freedom in terms of disseminating content. | ||
| And these platforms... | ||
| Just by their very nature, if you're not growing, you are shrinking. | ||
| Because there is going to always... | ||
| It's the churn. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Or who go on to harder core stuff, who get sucked into Q or whatever. | ||
| Your fan base is never going to be static, necessarily. | ||
| And so if you aren't constantly adding new people in, that will eventually be entropy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You're going to lose. | ||
| No, I mean, it is nice to hear in the deposition of Alex Jones' father that we're right to be so fucking hard on everybody when they won't. | ||
| Stop platforming him. | ||
| Because he's the one explaining that that's how they get new fucking people. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's why the criticism is particularly harsh about people like Rogan, people who make these ill-advised... | ||
|
unidentified
|
People who share that fucking Bon Iver video. | |
| Unadvised ad pitches, basically. | ||
| People like Glenn Greenwald doing that fucking Q&A. | ||
| The whole thing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He doesn't get new people anymore unless those flashpoints happen. | ||
| Those are the ways that you do it. | ||
| That's what he's got. | ||
| And you don't want to be one of those vectors. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Anyways. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Anyway, I was watching this and it doesn't feel like Alex much. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He's his dad. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it doesn't feel like Alex that much. | ||
| His voice is much more measured. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| It's very... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Long pauses, thoughtful long pauses. | |
| As opposed to confused long pauses. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| As opposed to pauses that are just like, what was the question? | ||
| He doesn't seem angry. | ||
| Maybe he's better at controlling that. | ||
| Maybe he's just an older person who has more life experience. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| He seems aware of what questions are being asked to him and why they're being asked to him. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| For the most part. | ||
| Yeah, this doesn't feel like Alex, but in this next clip, I really saw... | ||
| Did we get a flash of it? | ||
| I saw Alex. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And so that core group of customers, some of which predated the internet and some of which you developed before... | ||
| That's an exaggeration, but they predated social media. | ||
| I understood what you were trying to say. | ||
| Before social media became so important as it was now. | ||
| Before Al Gore invented it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And before the deplatforming, that core audience, which is the product-buying audience, is critical to maintaining the free speech systems, obviously, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| So when he made that Al Gore joke, which is something that Alex makes, too. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's a bad joke. | ||
| He's laughing. | ||
| He's looking around for sort of validation on his joke. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| And there is a look on his face that is like... | ||
| I see Alex's face right here. | ||
| And I'll try and get a screenshot of that and tweet it out. | ||
| But it was a weird moment for me to be coming towards the end of this hour deposition and be like, I get it. | ||
| I see the Alex in you. | ||
| The Jones. | ||
| That is an interesting question. | ||
| How much... | ||
| Obviously, I've noticed myself doing many of my father's mannerisms over time, especially as I age. | ||
| Could it go the other direction, is the question I have. | ||
| Could David Jones have spent so much time with his asshole son? | ||
| Now he can't help but be like, just like Al Gore making the internet. | ||
| Am I right, guys? | ||
| I'm pretty funny. | ||
| Or how much of that in Alex is the influence of the moral compass of InfoWars. | ||
| Totally, totally. | ||
| So we have one last clip here. | ||
| They talk a bit about the interaction that he has with Alex. | ||
| And apparently they only talk business like once a month or something, which I find difficult to believe. | ||
| And so did Matty. | ||
| But this was just... | ||
| I mean... | ||
| First of the month I put my gold coins into the safe and then we begin business meetings. | ||
| New business only comes after old business, obviously. | ||
| This answer to the question and description here is like... | ||
| It characterizes everything for me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I want to ask you about your... | |
| Relationship with Alex. | ||
| Can you describe the professional dynamic between the two of you? | ||
| My business relationship with Alex is highly business oriented. | ||
| He's a big fan of George Washington. | ||
| And he once read a biography of George Washington where George Washington hired a friend of his to manage one of his plantations, and he wrote the guy a letter saying, just because you're my friend doesn't mean I'm not going to hold you to a very high standard. | ||
| I'm going to hold you to a much higher standard than I do anybody else, so I expect you to do an incredibly good job. | ||
| And I would say our professional relationship is rigorous. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So you have an anecdote from a founding father story that may or may not be real. | ||
| Okay, David. | ||
| From a book that Alex allegedly wrote. | ||
| I read, yeah. | ||
| Excuse me. | ||
| But then also the thing there of my business relationship is business oriented. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| It's like that has come to characterize what I feel when I think about David Jones. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Is the answer non-answer. | ||
| There's nothing here. | ||
| It's ironically like pulling teeth. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| Just give any specifics or say anything that means anything. | ||
| I mean, it is like, I mean, but after that question, I'm like, okay. | ||
| Okay, David. | ||
| Great story. | ||
| What do you do? | ||
| Right. | ||
| If you are held to a higher standard of what? | ||
| To what? | ||
| How? | ||
| Ooh, ah, you're held to a higher standard. | ||
| What is the basis of that standard? | ||
| What are the standards by which you're judged? | ||
| Give me the last thing you did that you were judged for based upon this standard. | ||
| Well, things that are inconvenient for Alex to do. | ||
| No, I mean a thing. | ||
| Just a thing you did. | ||
| You took the garbage out. | ||
| Did you take the garbage out better than what he would expect from a different employee? | ||
| I can't speculate about this thing. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, it's annoying. | ||
| And it's really unfortunate that they were not able to get Dr. Jones to come back for another deposition. | ||
| Because I think that there's a lot more to explore. | ||
| I think there's a lot of follow-up questions that maybe wouldn't have been as in the lawyers' minds in 2019 that certainly later down the road would have been very interesting to... | ||
| Get to the bottom of, but apparently he wasn't responding to requests. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Interview requests. | ||
| I think you need Bill for this one. | ||
| I think Bill could really crack him. | ||
| I think there's a point where David would explode. | ||
| You feel a coiled spring kind of thing? | ||
| I feel that there's going to be a point where you can get him there and he will explode on you. | ||
| I don't think it's possible. | ||
| It's hard to imagine that there's someone in the Jones family. | ||
| That isn't, like, sort of full of some rage. | ||
| Yeah, somewhere. | ||
| I'm not saying he's easy. | ||
| Obviously, he's not as easy to get a rise out of as Alex. | ||
| No, you don't have to do anything to get a rise out of. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| You can just look at him. | ||
| Right. | ||
| This is a nut that you would have to take some time to crack. | ||
| And Mehdi is a professional person who's like, well, I'm not going to... | ||
| Purposefully try and infuriate a person beyond all reason. | ||
| That's just wrong on a professional level. | ||
| You're saying that the key is a gummy worm. | ||
| I think the key is a gummy worm. | ||
| I think that's what's going to have to happen. | ||
| It's a gummy worm shaped lock. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| We may never know. | ||
| It's possible. | ||
| So we come to the end of this exploration of family time. | ||
| Happy Thanksgiving to us all. | ||
| And to all a good night. | ||
|
unidentified
|
To all a good night. | |
| But yeah, I thought this was illuminating in some ways, but also fairly limited in terms of the amount of time that they had. | ||
| It was very clear that it was pretty tight. | ||
| Because at the end, Norm is saying, well, I think this is about all. | ||
| The time we're going to give. | ||
| It couldn't have been as impactful as a lot of the other Alex depositions or the corporate reps where you're here for two days, damn it. | ||
| But I still think there's a lot to be said for this. | ||
| Yeah, this is one that really for the first time... | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| Mm-hmm. | ||
| Then it will be much clearer. | ||
| Well, that may never be a possibility because Alex almost killed him with COVID. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Twice. | ||
| So apparently... | ||
| And he won't answer a fucking question. | ||
| There's that issue. | ||
| Even in 2019, you wouldn't answer a question. | ||
| So that's where we are. | ||
| The way he answers questions is very answer-like. | ||
| That is true. | ||
| And not true. | ||
| And also not true. | ||
| But at the same time, we still get the answer about the spikes, the clear obfuscation about the confidential and proprietary elements of a marketing plan that may or may not exist, but also is in Alex's head. | ||
| Did you see the data? | ||
| Oh, of course I saw the shit. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Nonsense. | ||
| Anyway, Jordan, we'll be back. | ||
| Indeed we will. | ||
| For another episode soon, but until then, we have a website. | ||
| We do have a website. | ||
| It's knowledgefight.com. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| We are also on Twitter. | ||
| We are on Twitter. | ||
| It's at knowledge underscore fight. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| We'll be back, but until then, I'm Neo. | ||
| I'm Leo. | ||
| I'm DZX. | ||
| Clark. | ||
| Ah, shit. | ||
| On your way home, could you go by the library for me? | ||
| Do you need something? | ||
| No, I have this thing that I had checked out too long. | ||
| It's overdue. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| What is it? | ||
| You should actually read this. | ||
| Oh, yeah? | ||
| It's really... | ||
| You gotta read this. | ||
| Oh, shit. | ||
| Is it the WikiLeaks? | ||
| Yeah, it is. | ||
| And now, here comes the sex robot. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your work. |
Export Selection