#395: Ghosts Of Caucuses Past
Today, Dan and Jordan have to deal with Alex Jones being out of studio in the present day, so they decided to take a look at what Alex was up to on the day of the Iowa caucus back in 2012.
Feb. 5, 2020 - Knowledge Fight
01:14:18
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| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| It's time to pray. | ||
|
unidentified
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I have great respect for knowledge fight. | |
| Knowledge fight. | ||
| I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys. | ||
| Knowledge fight. | ||
|
unidentified
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Dan and George. | |
| Knowledge fight. | ||
| Need money. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
|
unidentified
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Andy in Kansas. | |
| Stop it. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| It's time to pray. | ||
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding us. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hello, Alex. | |
| I love your room. | ||
|
unidentified
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KnowledgeFight. | |
| KnowledgeFight.com. | ||
| I love you. | ||
| Hey, everybody. | ||
| Welcome back to KnowledgeFight. | ||
| I'm Dan. | ||
| I'm Jordan. | ||
| We're a couple dudes who like to sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. | ||
| Indeed we are, Dan. | ||
| Super Bowl. | ||
| What? | ||
| Dan? | ||
| That's my new intro. | ||
| That's your new intro? | ||
|
unidentified
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I don't know. | |
| I wouldn't mind that. | ||
| That's better than Dan 2020 bullshit. | ||
| We'll see. | ||
| Dan? | ||
|
unidentified
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What? | |
| Quick question. | ||
| What's up? | ||
| Have you ever really fucked up at work? | ||
| Like, really fucked up at work? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, tons of times. | ||
| I've been a terrible employee in a lot. | ||
| I've been fired a lot in my younger days. | ||
| I remember the car wash. | ||
| There's a lot of... | ||
| Working at the car wash. | ||
| Movie theater, you were fired as a manager and then rehired as a manager? | ||
| No, I was fired as a projectionist at the movie theater. | ||
| I'm not sure. | ||
| I think I quit when I was a projectionist and then came back and became a manager. | ||
| I was fired at the time when I was just like an usher. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| All at the same movie theater. | ||
| Yeah, that movie theater. | ||
| I was hired and fired and quit there a lot of times over the years. | ||
| It was like a bad relationship that I had for years. | ||
| Ah, we'll let you come on. | ||
| Yeah, that was a... | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I did screw up there a bit. | ||
| Nothing too terrible. | ||
| And a lot of the times, the screw-ups are kind of manageable. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The thing that immediately popped into my head was that, like, okay, so, like, in a popcorn popper, you have this big cabinet thing that has the kettle that hangs down from the, you know. | ||
| Yes, yeah. | ||
| And that pops the popcorn into the display thing where people see the popcorn. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Mouth water, you do the whole thing. | ||
| You shovel it out. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Underneath it, in the cabinet, is a giant thing full of oil. | ||
| It has a little feed pump that goes up to the kettle. | ||
| You press a button. | ||
| But, of course, you've got to refill that oil bucket because it needs peanut oil in there. | ||
| It doesn't last forever. | ||
| No. | ||
| And one time, I don't remember if I was responsible for this or somebody else was, but the bucket got kind of knocked over and there was just oil all over there. | ||
| There's just oil all over the place. | ||
| And so everyone's slipping around trying to get candy and drinks for people. | ||
| That's pretty fun. | ||
| But anyway, this is a podcast where I know I've screwed up a lot at work. | ||
| And I know a lot about Alex Jones. | ||
| And I've screwed up plenty at work, and I don't know anything about Alex Jones. | ||
| So, Jordan, today, I guess maybe this is an instance of me screwing up at work, because we've got another sort of, what I'm going to call another mini-sode. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because we set out for, like, there's so much going on in the world. | ||
| We're covering this present-day stuff. | ||
| And so my plan, we're recording this on Tuesday. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And my plan was to cover Tuesday's episode. | ||
| Today's episode, as we're recording, for Wednesday. | ||
| Quick turnaround. | ||
| There was something that happened on Monday night. | ||
| I don't know if you noticed that. | ||
| There was the Iowa caucus. | ||
| There's a lot going on in the world, and you'd figure Alex Jones has probably... | ||
| Dumb shit to say about it. | ||
| Even if the Iowa caucus went off without incident or any kind of trouble, Alex would have some sort of bullshit to spin about it. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| And it's relevant. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or not. | ||
| And then you have the situation, as it did unfold, where there are a lot of questions spiraling around about the caucus and how no one's really sure who won, even as we record right now. | ||
| It's kind of the most apropos thing that could possibly happen in 2020 to the Democratic Party. | ||
| It's literally like I was hearing that happen and I was like, oh yeah, that makes sense. | ||
| It was not a, oh my god, how could this happen? | ||
| It was like, yeah, that's right. | ||
| Yeah, there was a sense of, like last night, Watching the coverage of it, just like, oh boy, come on. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yep. | |
| Come on. | ||
| Guys. | ||
| Guys. | ||
| So I figured that as I was watching it last night, all of this stuff unfolding, I was like, Alex is going to have a field day with this. | ||
| This is going to be outrageous. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But then I tuned into the episode today in order to prepare our episode, and Mike Adams and Owen Troyer were hosting. | ||
| Alex was gone. | ||
| Unreal. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| The abdication of responsibility on that one is staggering. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Just so it's clear, we're recording this on Tuesday, and so last night was the Iowa caucuses in 2020, and we're not going to talk too much about that. | ||
| And we will probably on a future episode, but the reality is that this is a podcast where we talk about Alex Jones' claims about things. | ||
| And if Alex Jones doesn't have any claims that we can address about that caucus, it seems like I don't want to be a news show where we get into everything that's going on. | ||
| I need Alex to bounce off of. | ||
| And once he comes into studio and has some thoughts about things, we can address them. | ||
| But for now, it might be disappointing, but there's no hot takes. | ||
| About the present day necessarily coming from me. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, you know, the obvious take is, holy shit! | ||
| Look at those dum-dums! | ||
|
unidentified
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Whoa! | |
| Hot! | ||
| Don't! | ||
| Hot take! | ||
| Don't do that! | ||
| Stop it! | ||
| Jordan, that take is scorching. | ||
| Hey, DNC! | ||
| Knock it off! | ||
| So, yeah, I don't know. | ||
| We'll get there when we get there. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So I thought, like, okay, Super Bowl was Sunday. | ||
| Alex is probably going to be mad about Shakira on Monday. | ||
| Paul Joseph Watson's hosting on Monday. | ||
| Son of a bitch. | ||
| Granted, he is mad about Shakira and Jennifer Lopez. | ||
| You can't help it. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| No, certainly not. | ||
| And so, like, I'm not covering Paul Joseph Watson doing his boutique culture concern type show. | ||
| So Monday's out, and we go to Sunday. | ||
| And so I listened to a bit of Sunday, and we'll talk a little bit about Sunday, but then I decided I'm just going to go far afield and find something to talk about. | ||
| And so that's why today is a little bit of a grab bag. | ||
| Got a little bit of Sunday, and that'll be February 2nd. | ||
| And then a little bit of something else. | ||
| But before we get down to that, we're going to take a little moment, Jordan, to say thank you to some folks who have signed up and are supporting the show. | ||
| So, first of all, Alicia, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, Alicia. | ||
| Thank you, Alicia. | ||
| Keys, huge fan. | ||
| I keep on following. | ||
| In and out. | ||
| Next, Natalie, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Oh, Natalie Imbruglia. | ||
| Natalie Imbruglia. | ||
| So great. | ||
| I'm torn. | ||
| Next, Matthew, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Ah, thank you very much, Matthew Broderick? | ||
| Did he sing? | ||
| He sang in The Producers. | ||
| He did sing in The Producers. | ||
| Original cast recording, done. | ||
| Next, Julie, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much, Julie. | ||
| Jamie Andrews! | ||
| From The Sound of Music. | ||
| She's a brilliant singer. | ||
| We're now just going to get into the musicals. | ||
| We're crushing it, yeah. | ||
| Next, Javier. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You're now a policy wonk. | ||
| Damn it! | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Did Javier Bardem sing in No Country for Old Men? | ||
| Yep, yep. | ||
| It was a really, really monotone song in that movie. | ||
| Next, Jamie. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You're now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| Jamie from... | ||
| What was the thing? | ||
| There was a Jamie. | ||
| Jamie, the famous pop star. | ||
| You know Jamie. | ||
| Something. | ||
| Now all I can think of is Jamie the shitty comedian. | ||
| Jamie Foxx? | ||
| Yeah, Jamie Foxx. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| His alter ego, I guess. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| Next, this one's going to be tough for you. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| Wes the Sanskritist. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy walk. | ||
| I'm a policy walk. | ||
| We all remember Wes the Sanskritist. | ||
| Wes the Sanskritist. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| All those great songs. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| And finally, I'd like to say thank you to a couple people who donated on an elevated level. | ||
| We appreciate it very much. | ||
| So first, Jeff, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a technocrat. | ||
| And Elvin Engineer, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a technocrat. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Crikey, mate. | ||
| That's fantastic. | ||
| Have yourself a brew. | ||
| How's your 401k doing, bro? | ||
| We gotta go full tilt boogie on this, Watson, alright? | ||
| Let's just get down to business. | ||
| We ain't making that money off that heroin. | ||
| Why are you pimps so good? | ||
| My neck is freakishly large. | ||
| I declare... | ||
| Infowar on you! | ||
| Thank you so much, Jeff! | ||
| And thank you so much, Elvin Engineer! | ||
| Yeah! | ||
| Have you never heard of Jeff and the Elvin Engineers? | ||
| That was a great... | ||
| They toured with Elvis Costello and the... | ||
| Not that elephant. | ||
| No. | ||
| Thank you so much, guys. | ||
| If you're out there listening and you're thinking, hey, I'd like this show, I'd like to support what these gents are doing, you can do that by going to our website, knowledgefight.com, clicking the button that says support the show. | ||
| We would appreciate it. | ||
| It'd be very lovely. | ||
| So, Jordan, we're going to start off on doing this a little bit from February 2nd, this last Sunday. | ||
| I tuned in, and one of the things that's firstly of note is that Alex is recording not from studio. | ||
| He's sitting at a desk somewhere, maybe a hotel room. | ||
| Sure. | ||
|
unidentified
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And the sound is atrocious. | |
| And he gets into the show and immediately I was just like, I have no time for this. | ||
| I have no patience. | ||
| I'm getting very sick of this stuff. | ||
| Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for joining us on this live Sunday broadcast. | ||
| I am on the road, and we just have incredible breaking news that just went live that is a global exclusive in conjunction with naturalnews.com with Mike Adams. | ||
| He's going to be co-hosting coming up the second hour with myself and Tom Papert. | ||
| He'll be the main host because I want him to be able to get to all this new evidence. | ||
| Emerges coronavirus bioweapon might have been a Chinese vaccine experiment gone wrong. | ||
| Genes contain P-shuttle SN sequences proving laboratory origin. | ||
| Now, why is this so important? | ||
| Well, it came out a few days ago. | ||
| Zero Head reported on Indian newspapers on one of the most prestigious scientific medical research centers. | ||
| Where they use computers, similar to CRISPR, to GeneEdit. | ||
| And they just came out and said, this has clearly had a bunch of other viruses welded in, including the original HIV. | ||
| Now, the controlled corporate media didn't come out and say, oh, well, let's just dispute the paper. | ||
| They said Zero Hedge made it up, basically. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay? | |
| And then said that Zero Hedge had outed scientists and doctors by writing an article about who'd published a paper. | ||
| It's like, you know, outing. | ||
| An NFL quarterback, you know, because you talk about them, they're a public figure. | ||
| That's how they took, because they can call anything harassment with big tech. | ||
| So you know right away there's a big expression. | ||
| This paper... | ||
| It's prestigious. | ||
| You know, I've always thought that there are two famous types of people. | ||
| There's NFL quarterbacks and then there's Indian scientists. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| You think of, oh, one-to-one comparison. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I tuned this in and I was like, I am fucking so sick and tired of us doing these episodes that have just too much about this coronavirus stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| It's all very desperate on Alex's part. | ||
| You can just see. | ||
| Like, how badly he wants this to be, like, a narrative that blossoms for him. | ||
| It's just not happening. | ||
| I'm very tired of it. | ||
| It's not happening. | ||
| But in that clip, Alex does bring up two things that I think deserve attention. | ||
| The first is that scientific paper that he mentioned, and the second is Zero Hedge. | ||
| So, on January 31st, 2020, I'm Dan, this is 2020. | ||
| Goddamn! | ||
| Researchers at the Indian Institute of Technology in New Delhi published a paper on a website called BioRxiv titled, quote, Uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019 novel coronavirus spike protein to HIV-1, GP-120, and GAG. | ||
| One thing that's important to point out, which Alex and Mike Adams seem to not want to discuss, is what this website BioRxiv actually is. | ||
| It's a preprint server, where researchers and scientists can post papers that have not been vetted in any way. | ||
| The issue is that peer reviewing can be a long process, where a reputable journal is unwilling to publish something without really going over it and making sure that what they're printing is up to their standards. | ||
| That's where preprint servers can come in handy. | ||
| From BioRxiv's website, quote, Authors use the BioRxiv service to make their manuscripts available as preprints before completing peer review and consequent certification by a journal. | ||
| This allows other scientists to see, discuss, and comment on the findings immediately. | ||
| Readers should therefore be aware that articles on BioRxiv have not been finalized by authors, may contain errors, and report information that has not been accepted or endorsed in any way by scientific or medical community. | ||
| This paper that Alex is citing as prestigious was in no way verified, and even according to its source, should not be taken as a finalized version of anything. | ||
| Also, if you try to find this paper now, you find this message. | ||
| This paper has been withdrawn by its authors. | ||
| They intend to revise it in response to comments received from the research community on their technical approach and their interpretation of results. | ||
| They retracted their paper on Sunday, the same day that Alex is on air, talking about it being a smoking gun that proves that this virus is a bioweapon. | ||
| So, to sum it up, Alex's primary source here is a paper that was retracted by its own authors after being published on a non-peer-reviewed preprint server. | ||
| To put it simply, this is not strong enough to support any of the claims that he's trying to make. | ||
| They should not allow... | ||
| Non-scientists anywhere near that shit. | ||
| Like, you journalists shouldn't be allowed to go near it. | ||
| Alex should be nowhere. | ||
| Alex shouldn't even know it existed, and if he does look at it, there should be, like, a men-I'm-black, like, neuralyzer that... | ||
| Wipes his memory. | ||
| I don't disagree that it is the sort of thing that could easily, and you can see the exact instance of it, it could easily lead to trouble, but what you're suggesting would be just as bad. | ||
| There's to say it's a huge cover-up. | ||
| I know, of course. | ||
| That's not the point. | ||
| The point is they can't have, when they have this information, they're just... | ||
| They're just awful with it. | ||
| They're just evil with the information. | ||
| They ignore the caveat and the asterisk of this is not in any way substantiated. | ||
| This is something that these researchers are putting up for discussion within the medical and scientific researching community. | ||
| It's just... | ||
| You can't run with it like Alex is trying to run with it. | ||
| Yeah, the whole point of the server is we're putting up stuff for other scientists to look at because we're fairly certain that there's going to be something that we can make better. | ||
| Or not, or all of that stuff. | ||
| It's never... | ||
| And particularly the danger of this game, too, is that because there was a lot of backlash from the scientific and medical community about the way they were framing things, the results that they were claiming to have received, And they voluntarily withdrew their own paper because of this critique and comments that they got from the community. | ||
| Now Alex can claim that they took it down because it's a cover-up. | ||
| It's all just a disgraceful shell game. | ||
| Instead of the scientific community doing its job and self-policing to a very high-quality standard, instead it's a conspiracy to cover up poorly made paper. | ||
| cool as for the situation with zero hedge it has nothing to do uh with this paper from india alex is trying to conflate the two because the buzzfeed article about zero hedge getting kicked off twitter which is what everyone alex is mad about sure that article mentioned that uh zero hedge had worked with an indian conspiracy theory website called great game india to That's the only connection to India, but it's enough for Alex to pretend that these are related stories. | ||
| So what happened is that Zero Hedge published an article accusing a virologist in Wuhan of creating the virus. | ||
| And they posted his name, email address, and phone number. | ||
| And the article also says, quote, if anyone wants to find out what really caused the coronavirus pandemic that's infected thousands of people in China and around the globe, they should probably pay him a visit. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| You say, if anybody wants to find out that information. | ||
| Stop. | ||
| Check out that guy. | ||
| Don't do it. | ||
| Don't look at him. | ||
| Bother this guy. | ||
|
unidentified
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No, no, no. | |
| Don't bother him. | ||
| That's just completely unacceptable behavior. | ||
| Zero Hedge has no evidence that this guy created the coronavirus, and yet they're making that accusation and suggesting people should go pay him a visit. | ||
| You just can't do stuff like that. | ||
| And if I were Twitter, I would have kicked them off the platform for that, too. | ||
| Granted, I probably would have done it a long time ago, but let's not split hairs on this. | ||
| No, come on. | ||
| It's just like an NFL quarterback. | ||
| They're public figures. | ||
| These researchers literally no one has ever heard of before posting a paper that... | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| Public figures, Dan. | ||
| So I got into that and I'm like, I'm not doing another episode of Alex and Mike trying to sell food buckets and weird silver with fears about this virus. | ||
| Especially with Alex's glitchy audio. | ||
| Yeah, I just can't do it. | ||
| I was not in for it. | ||
| Primed myself for some sort of a political thing. | ||
| I'm not in the mood. | ||
| I feel like the audience is probably getting sick and tired of Alex's lies about the virus. | ||
| I sure as fuck am. | ||
| So I was like, what can I do? | ||
| What can we do? | ||
| It's like, well, there's the Iowa caucus. | ||
| I was thinking to myself, one of Alex's finest moments involves the Iowa caucus. | ||
| Because back in 2012, Ron Paul was running. | ||
| And he did pretty well in the Iowa caucus. | ||
| So I decided... | ||
| He got what? | ||
| Third? | ||
| No. | ||
| Well, I mean, he came in third in votes, but he ended up getting 22 out of the 28 delegates. | ||
| Oh, that's right, because Iowa should be removed from democracy. | ||
| I'm not... | ||
| Yeah, he got 22 out of the 28 delegates. | ||
| I'm not sure if I agree with you that Iowa should be removed from democracy, but the caucus system involves... | ||
| A lot of places where manipulation can be done. | ||
| I think it might be an undemocratic way of going about this. | ||
| Rick Santorum won the Iowa caucuses in 2012. | ||
| With his huge popularity nationwide, Dan. | ||
| He won the votes of the people who showed up at the Iowa caucuses and got zero. | ||
| Oh boy. | ||
| Well, I was like, that's probably going to be something kind of interesting. | ||
| So I went back to the day of the Iowa caucus, which is January 3rd, 2012. | ||
| And what do you find? | ||
| Well, you find Alex being very insistent that Ron Paul is going to win, but is also going to be screwed over. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And an interview. | ||
| With Wayne Paul. | ||
| Oh no! | ||
| Ron Paul's brother. | ||
| So today we're going to be listening to... | ||
| Three senators past the Fed. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Wayne Paul. | ||
| So we got a little bit of Alex's episode and then an interview with Wayne Paul. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I'm going to be perfectly honest with you. | ||
| This episode might be completely pointless. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But hey, it's Iowa caucus time. | ||
| Let's go ahead and listen to Alex's Iowa caucus in 2012 when he had a feeling that Ron Paul probably had a chance at winning the nomination and should be president. | ||
| He was going to kick Obama's ass. | ||
| Everybody was going to choose Ron Paul over Obama. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| So here we go. | ||
| We start off with Alex extolling the virtues. | ||
| And you know what? | ||
| If you don't like Ron Paul, Alex has some words for you. | ||
| Now, if you don't like Ron Paul, Then you don't like what America is. | ||
| The people demonizing Ron Paul and myself are lecherous, un-American vipers who want the destruction of our republic and who are signed on to the new world order. | ||
| Period. | ||
| It's putting it pretty strongly. | ||
| If you like America, you better like Ron Paul. | ||
| Anybody who doesn't like us. | ||
| Vipers. | ||
| Nationally, Ron Paul was polling between 8 and 12% at the time. | ||
| So I would say roughly 90% of the United States was 100% globalist snake vipers. | ||
| Agreed. | ||
| So I don't have a ton of the rest of this episode because it's like, who gives a shit? | ||
| But Alex does take some calls and he gets a call from a guy who has nothing to do with the Iowa caucus, but I found this to be very interesting. | ||
| Let's talk to Rick in Florida. | ||
| Rick, thank you. | ||
| Welcome. | ||
| Alex? | ||
| Yes, sir. | ||
| Are you there? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yes. | |
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Five-year listener, I'm calling because I need your help. | |
| I'm in the process of declaring myself a free man on the land. | ||
| All right? | ||
|
unidentified
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And I want to opt out of the Social Security system because it's that number. | |
| If you accept that number to your name, that's what ties you legally to the rest of their debt. | ||
| Yes, that's all true, but the system is so criminal now. | ||
| They say they don't even follow their own rules, just like they've gotten rid of due process and say they'll secretly arrest you and blow your head off. | ||
| They are lawless criminals. | ||
| So just know that just because you say I'm a sovereign, you pull out of it. | ||
| Unless you're an illegal alien, they won't leave you alone. | ||
| Uh-oh. | ||
| Legals aren't above the law because they're here to drive down wages and keep part of the New World Order. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| See, you thought this was going to be a thing where Alex reveals he believes sovereign citizenship. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| Turns out, also, swerves at the end to racist. | ||
| I think it's funny that he's against sovereign citizens doing their bullshit from the other side. | ||
| Like, he's gone too far. | ||
| He's like, yeah, absolutely everything sovereign citizens believe is totally true, but it doesn't matter because they're going to find you anyway. | ||
| There's a practical aspect to it that he takes issue with as opposed to the magical thinking of, if I just denounce my social security number, I'm a free man on the land. | ||
| Obviously, and that's if they followed the law. | ||
| Of course you could. | ||
| Great. | ||
| You could just be a man on the land. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| So Alex is a pretty sovereign citizen-y. | ||
| Of course that's true, sir. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's a weird response to that kind of call, but cool. | ||
| So you get around to the Wayne Paul interview, and here's Alex giving him a little bit of an intro, which, like, you can really tell that there seems to be a talking point that Alex really seems to be pushing back on. | ||
| I think you'll be able to tell what it is from this clip. | ||
| Well, we've got another great patriot and another fellow Texan. | ||
| Wayne Paul joining us for the rest of the hour. | ||
| He's, of course, one of Ron Paul's brothers. | ||
| And for many decades, he's been exposing the Federal Reserve, battling the IRS in court. | ||
| He's a CPA. | ||
| He is just a chip off the same block that Ron Paul came from, off the same tree. | ||
| And I wanted to get him on today to talk a little bit about his brother and who his brother really is. | ||
| I mean, I happen to know the inside baseball on Ron Paul, who would basically volunteer for free to work at charity hospitals because he believes in the free market. | ||
| And in the free market, you're supposed to have people that dedicate their own time willingly to help them. | ||
| those that are in need. | ||
| That's what the Bible teaches. | ||
| I have to know that Ron Paul routinely would pay the bills of his poor patients. | ||
| That's now coming out, not from his campaign, but from others. | ||
| And that Ron Paul would volunteer in the minority black areas mainly and give them Sure. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Well, a hero. | ||
| He won't talk about himself. | ||
| He won't allow it because it's painful for people like him to hear it because he knows he's doing his duty. | ||
| There's a little bit of a concern about Ron Paul's... | ||
| Ron Paul's a racist. | ||
| There's some stuff in his past that was coming up, you know, when you run for president. | ||
| People vet you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
People do. | |
| Let's say oppo research people dig into your newsletters and find a bunch of really racist shit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Find associations with Nazis and white supremacists in the past. | ||
| And you find, hey, what's up with this? | ||
| David Duke really loves you. | ||
| What's going on here? | ||
| Find those sorts of things. | ||
| So, Alex. | ||
| I feel like one of the things that he really wants to drive home is, like, Ron Paul, when he was a doctor, loved to give free health care to black people. | ||
| I know David Duke loves him, but that's while he was giving free health care to black people. | ||
| It seems like something Alex makes a particular note of. | ||
| It comes up multiple times in this interview. | ||
| Yeah, I think oppo researchers are used to, like, digging for stuff, and with Ron Paul, they put their shovel down, put the foot on there, and went, clink! | ||
| Oh, shit, we didn't even have to go deep. | ||
| Not too deep. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| So I'm not positive what Alex is talking about when he says that Wayne Paul fought the IRS in court. | ||
| Well, he's a CPA. | ||
| He is. | ||
| I think he actually is. | ||
| I've seen that on some... | ||
| I don't really care. | ||
| Well, of his credits, that's the one I believe. | ||
| Yeah, I don't particularly care. | ||
| But I did find a little gem about a lawsuit in the IRS. | ||
| I don't know if it was a lawsuit, but it was in court. | ||
| That involved Wayne Paul. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So, in 2009, Wayne Paul was called as a defense witness in the trial of a man named Robert Carre, who was accused of skirting tax laws. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh! | |
| It seems that the situation was that he was paying his employees with gold and silver. | ||
| And people who he had, like, contracts with and stuff. | ||
| Of course! | ||
| But he was only reporting their pay as the face value of the coins. | ||
| For instance, he might pay someone with a gold dollar coin that was valued at $200, but he was claiming it as $1 to skirt tax law. | ||
| That might sound like a small thing, and it probably would be if you were just doing it with one coin. | ||
| But this dude was super rich, and apparently he was doing it a lot. | ||
| When he was ultimately found guilty, he was facing a possible fine of like $14 million, which would give you some kind of scope of what kind of money he was hiding from the IRS with this scheme. | ||
| I'm going to go with quite a bit. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So Kare would ultimately end up being sentenced to 190 months in prison. | ||
| Love it. | ||
| And he also had to pay millions in restitution for this. | ||
| The first time I've heard... | ||
| The criminal justice system working right. | ||
| I think it did take a while, though. | ||
| It was a drawn-out process. | ||
| One of his advisors, Alexander Loglia, was also sentenced to 26 months in prison because this involved a bit of a conspiracy. | ||
| Well, that'll happen. | ||
| That'll happen. | ||
| So you bring in Wayne Paul as your defense witness. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| Interestingly, Loglia was also a guy who was part of Bill Cooper's CAGI organization. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| The Citizens Agency for Joint Intelligence. | ||
| And he appeared on Bill Cooper's show multiple times. | ||
| Who the fuck are these people? | ||
| Anyway, Wade Paul was a defense witness in that case, which did not go well for the dude that he was supporting. | ||
| As for Ron Paul, you know, like we said, volunteering as a doctor, that's great. | ||
| But I don't know how much I believe that he was super concerned with minorities getting appropriate health care, given the shit that he's published. | ||
| I'm gonna go with zero. | ||
| The stuff that was published in his newsletter was written in the first person. | ||
| It had eye. | ||
| It was personal opinions. | ||
| I mean, a lot of politicians have people ghostwrite their books. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| You know, that's no big deal. | ||
| Fine. | ||
| Sure, he dictated it. | ||
| So Wayne Paul comes in and... | ||
| They have some concerns about the transparency issues at a caucus. | ||
| I think it's a legitimate concern. | ||
|
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|
I don't know why. | |
| Wayne Paul has a solution to this. | ||
| So, Wayne, what is first on your radar screen here today, my friend? | ||
| Well, I think the biggest thing is how do we know we're going to have an honest tabulation? | ||
| Those throughout the country have been thinking about this for a long time, and there's three or four guys on the East Coast that have set up a website called transparentvote.net, and they put out a letter to all the candidates in Iowa saying, if you've got people in a precinct when the precinct count is finished and sign off on... | ||
| Before they whisked it away asking to put it up and you take a camera picture of it with your iPhone and then upload it to TransparentVote.net. | ||
| This guy sounds old. | ||
| TransparentVote.net. | ||
| The shaky voice of an old, old man. | ||
| You take a camera photo. | ||
| This doesn't seem like the worst idea in the world, although I think that the photos that people are sending in should be vetted before they're accepted as being real. | ||
| Like, I think that the process could become pretty complicated, and I don't know if the people who are running that website have the infrastructure or ability to handle that sort of thing. | ||
| It's sort of the same thing that I thought when I was listening to people call into shows last night, as we were recording this last night, during the Iowa coverage from this year. | ||
| You know, people calling in with tallies from caucuses. | ||
| Like, I don't have any reason to distrust them necessarily, but I also have no idea if what they're saying is accurate. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| It's just a person on a phone. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| In the same way, this is just a picture. | ||
| You could fake that picture. | ||
| Right. | ||
| There's all kinds of possibilities. | ||
| You need verification of stuff. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| But anyway, I don't think the baseline idea behind this person with this website, not the worst idea in the world. | ||
| Anyway, I don't think this website took off. | ||
| The earliest snapshot of it in the Wayback Machine is from early 2013, so it's after this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Did not stick around for very long. | ||
| That's fair. | ||
| And by that point, in early 2013, it had already become a landing page with spam in Japanese promoting a shop in Japan. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| Here's the text that you will find on transparentvote.net. | ||
| Quote, there is a sex shop that you always visit when you come to Osaka. | ||
| The sex shop does not offer any special services, especially notable and not even thrilling business. | ||
| It's a very ordinary sex shop with the image of general sex shop. | ||
| Especially Osaka, this is special. | ||
| There is no complaint to sing. | ||
| However, I'm worried, and I go every time I come to Osaka. | ||
| It's such a mysterious shop. | ||
| It's not that I'm messing around. | ||
| Rather, praise. | ||
| I'm going to praise it like this. | ||
| I think it is just you want to visit. | ||
| However, why is it so attractive? | ||
| I don't know well. | ||
| And as I said, I go to Osaka again this weekend. | ||
| Even so, I guess I would go to that sex shop. | ||
| I guess that a simple and cute girl smiles and goes to the store that says, have you come? | ||
| I'm glad. | ||
| Okay, is this sex shop a synecdoche for the United States electoral system? | ||
| Is that what's going on? | ||
| Because I can see a little bit of it there. | ||
| There's another page, not just the landing homepage. | ||
| There's another page titled, quote, men too, which begins, quote, this was also taught at the sex shop in Osaka, but men also squirt. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| The more I looked into the pages on this website, the more it became clear that this was largely about a sex shop in Osaka that may or may not focus on prostate orgasms. | ||
| There's a page titled, quote, I like it! | ||
| That's a good one. | ||
| Quote, yes, yes, the prostate is something only we have. | ||
| It seems to be about five centimeters from the hole in the ass. | ||
| What's happening here? | ||
| Are these reviews communicating with each other? | ||
| It is said that if you stimulate it, you will get pleasure almost forever. | ||
| Almost forever. | ||
| The bottom line is that I guess that this transparent voting initiative didn't take off the way Wayne Paul had hoped it might. | ||
| Because I wanted to try and sort out what this website was. | ||
| I was hoping to find some sort of cash stuff about it. | ||
| I accidentally found a page praising a Japanese anus-themed sex shop. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So thanks for that, Wayne Paul. | ||
| I mean, sometimes you set up the website that you think you want, but you find out you get the website you need. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I think that's what Wayne Paul was really... | ||
| That's what he needed, Dan. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So that has nothing to do with anything relevant at all, but it's what you find if you look at the Wayback Machine. | ||
| I like it. | ||
| TransparentVote.com. | ||
| I like it. | ||
| I think that's a good website. | ||
| So one of the things that I found really interesting about listening to this interview with Wayne Paul on the day of the Iowa caucuses 2012, firstly, is that Alex does seem to be subtly pushing back on the idea that Ron Paul is a racist. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And then the second thing is how much this... | ||
| Directly mirrors so much of his language about Trump. | ||
| And imagine your brother, really for 40 years, but prominently for three decades, traveling the country, writing books, in and out of Congress, battling for basic Americana liberty. | ||
| I mean, really nothing special, just basic common sense constitution. | ||
| And now, here he is, right as everything he warned of, and you and I and many others and J. Edward Griffin warned of, right as it's all happening, just as we have said, there is Ron Paul. | ||
| I mean, that's God giving us a chance. | ||
| God, if you study the Bible, Wayne, as you know, always gives people a way out, a chance. | ||
| And I'm saying this is our chance. | ||
| This is so similar to how he, like, really... | ||
| Tried to characterize the 2016 election. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The God giving us a reprieve like Nineveh. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Constantly talking about that. | ||
| Always gives us a chance. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| It's startling to me almost to look back and see what in these contexts could seem as a little bit more rational because, I mean, for all Ron Paul's faults, at least he's a politician who's been elected to office multiple times. | ||
| And who seems to believe what he says. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| As good or bad as those things are, seems to at least have, like, not just fucking around. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So you see the same sort of framing and the same... | ||
| It was very jarring to me. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't know if anyone else would have a similar response, but seeing that language be so vigorously applied to the Trump situation... | ||
| And then looking back and seeing it's exactly the same way he tried to frame the 2012 election, it really just makes everything seem way cheaper. | ||
| Like, it makes the 2012 stuff seem cheaper, and it makes the 2016 thing just seem like, oh, this is just what he does. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I mean, but he didn't do that, obviously, for Romney or the Bushes. | ||
| So 2012 was like... | ||
| It seems to me like 2016 was something that is ruining 2012 because he just doesn't have any other way of... | ||
| Well, because he had a candidate that made it out of the primaries. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And one that he liked. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| A positive one. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, we're fucked. | ||
| Yeah, it's weird. | ||
| There's also the same thing with Trump. | ||
| I mean, I guess you could get that even from that last clip where we were getting this chance. | ||
| God gives us a chance. | ||
| There's an immediacy to it. | ||
| Like it needs to be now. | ||
| We live in the most exciting times of our life because we've never had an opportunity like this in my lifetime. | ||
| 70 years old and we hear it i think it's it's exciting i think it's | ||
|
unidentified
|
definitive and i think it is going to be something that's going to surprise everybody because the time is now okay Okay. | |
| Okay. | ||
| No, do not do this. | ||
| I don't know why that happened. | ||
| I have no idea why that happened. | ||
| I don't know what happened. | ||
| Whenever Wayne Paul says the time is now, John Cena's theme song just starts playing. | ||
| I didn't do that. | ||
| I didn't edit that. | ||
| You had to have. | ||
| No, it's just something that happens. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| Absolutely. | ||
| Of course I edited that. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| But it's important. | ||
| Whenever anybody says the time is now, you need... | ||
|
unidentified
|
You gotta have that. | |
| You gotta know that the champ is here. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Son of a bitch. | ||
| That's how little you could find today. | ||
| You were like, I'm tossing this one in here. | ||
| If we were doing an actual episode, you would have freaked the fuck out. | ||
| It's a representation of how little I respect I have for Wayne Paul, probably. | ||
| We are living in exciting times because Wayne Paul can get fake teeth that fit. | ||
| Well, I mean, there again, we're living in the most exciting times. | ||
| There's just so much mirroring of what would end up being exactly the way that Alex talks about Trump. | ||
| So, an interesting thing is here, you've got Alex Jones, who does a dumb show. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And you have him supporting a candidate who has a fair shot of coming in the top end of the field. | ||
| In the first caucus of the primary season. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| So, it's so bizarre that, first of all, he chooses to have as a guest that candidate's brother. | ||
| No, there's no conflict of interest there. | ||
| First of all, there is. | ||
| And second of all... | ||
| Play Cena's music again. | ||
| Second of all, it just seems like... | ||
| I don't know what you hope to get out of this other than maybe pathos. | ||
| You know, like, I can't imagine... | ||
| If you have a show, like, I wouldn't, it would be bizarre to me for, like, I don't know, Maddow to have Hillary Clinton's brother on or something like that and think it's, like, hard-hitting the day of the Iowa caucus of 2016. | ||
| Sure. | ||
|
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|
It just seems like, I don't get it. | |
| I get the choice. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But it's not a serious choice. | ||
| No, no. | ||
| It's a weird choice. | ||
| Well, I mean, there's a reason that I don't remember Wayne Paul making all the interview rounds on national TV. | ||
| I don't think Ron Paul was like, Wayne, we're going to need you on Fox News. | ||
| You're my surrogate for this interview. | ||
| We got to get Wayne up front. | ||
| It seems really weird. | ||
| And because Wayne Paul doesn't really have much by way of being a surrogate. | ||
| Having much relevancy to Ron Paul's campaign, it ends up drifting a bit into Alex trying to talk about their childhood. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| This is a puff piece now. | ||
| What was it like growing up with Ron Paul? | ||
| You guys have a large family. | ||
| Growing up, how would you characterize him in the family and then throughout his life, what type of person is Ron Paul and what do you make of all of these taking out of tens of thousands of newsletters Taking 10 lines or something and conflating them with other things and then attacking your brother. | ||
| So there's two things that are going on here. | ||
| One, again, you see this interest in pushing back against the racist narrative because that's what he's talking about with the newsletters. | ||
| And then secondarily, I think the strategy is... | ||
| I don't even know if it's a conscious strategy. | ||
| I think it's just how someone like Alex operates. | ||
| This is about endearing Ron Paul further by way of story. | ||
| You're not going to get into the nitty-gritty of policy or anything like that. | ||
| So what you're going to end up doing is making stories surrounding his candidacy. | ||
| That is the most important element to appealing to this right-wing base. | ||
| Yeah, you need an emotional narrative. | ||
| Yeah, you need that appeal, and that's going to do a lot of work for you. | ||
| Problem is, everybody who's listening to Alex's show already loves Ron Paul, so I don't know who you're hoping to swing by way of, like, what was it like growing up with Ron Paul? | ||
| Give us a character that we can all relate to and attach ourselves to. | ||
| You're selling a sold car. | ||
| That's what you're doing. | ||
| It just seems very weird. | ||
| Now, about those newsletters. | ||
| The racist shit in Ron Paul's newsletters were absolutely not taken out of context, and it's not just a couple lines. | ||
| Oh, 10 or 12 lines and you're conflating them with false information? | ||
| What kind of idiot would take only a few lines out of context and then conflate them with completely different things, Dan? | ||
| That would be an insane thing to do! | ||
| There's a great piece about this in The New Republic by James Kerchick that gets into some of the more flagrant examples of Ron Paul being a gigantic racist piece of shit. | ||
| For instance, there was a 1992 article in his newsletter about the Watts riots that said, quote, order was only restored in L.A. when it came time for the blacks to pick up their welfare checks. | ||
| The piece also applauded the Korean store owners, who were, quote, the only people to act like real Americans, mainly because they have not yet been assimilated into our rotten liberal culture, which admonishes whites faced by raging blacks to lie back and think of England. | ||
| Now, that one is going to be tough to explain away. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think that one is pretty comprehensive in being racist. | ||
| Or there was the 1989 article that predicted racial violence will fill our cities because, quote, mostly black welfare recipients will feel justified in stealing from the mostly white halves. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| All right. | ||
| Or there was the June 1991 article about racial tension in a D.C. neighborhood titled, quote, Animals Take Over the D.C. Zoo. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Nope. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| There's a singular fixation in his newsletters about the coming race war and a trend of calling non-whites animals. | ||
| In an article from 1992, the newsletter says, quote, I've urged everyone in my family to know how to use a gun in self-defense, for the animals are coming. | ||
| There was one from 1996 that opined that, quote, opinion polls consistently show that only 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions. | ||
| The newsletters called the end of apartheid in South Africa a, quote, destruction of civilization, and, quote, the most tragic event to ever occur on that continent, at least below the Sahara. | ||
| Why is it that so many of these right-wing figures seem to take the exact same view of the world that Charles Manson did? | ||
| Why is it there's so much overlap between what Charles Manson preached? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Or who could forget about all the positive coverage that the newsletters gave to David Duke back in 1991, saying, quote, Duke lost the election, but he scared the blazes out of the establishment. | ||
| All this makes sense. | ||
| I mean, after all, Duke did endorse Ron Paul for president, as did pretty much all of the white supremacist community in the country that has any interest in electoral politics. | ||
| Well, for sure. | ||
| Unless they're trying to become men of the land. | ||
| Then they don't care about electoral politics, then. | ||
| This is a very serious and very consistent type of shit that goes on. | ||
| And this isn't even getting into the gay bashing and completely nonsensical revisionist history and anti-communist conspiracy shit in those newsletters. | ||
| Ron Paul is not a folksy weirdo who hates banks and war and loves weed. | ||
| He's either a violently racist person who had no problem expressing those views in his newsletter, or he's someone so fucking incompetent that he allowed someone else to write violently racist articles in his newsletter in the first person. | ||
| And somehow he didn't notice until he was asked about it when he ran for president. | ||
| Such bullshit. | ||
| This is sad. | ||
| And yeah, go ahead. | ||
| Ask Wayne Paul about it. | ||
| Ask his brother. | ||
| And he doesn't even respond. | ||
| What was it like growing up with Ron Paul? | ||
| Well, I mean... | ||
| You know, he was very racist to even other children at the age of four. | ||
| Wayne doesn't even, like, respond to the newsletter stuff. | ||
| He just sort of waxes nostalgic about a bygone time. | ||
| And so Alex tries to... | ||
| We used to call him... | ||
| Nope, nope, stop, stop, stop! | ||
| Alex tries to refocus him on, like, how would you describe Ron? | ||
| How would you describe Ron Paul? | ||
| I mean, at his core, what drives your brother? | ||
| Well, even when Ron was in high school, before he had a driver's license, he worked in a drugstore making sodas and sundaes. | ||
| And then at nine or 10 o'clock at night or Friday at Saturday night, he'd get on his bicycle, and it'd take him, it's about a mile from the house, Keep in mind... | ||
| Ron Paul was born in 1935. | ||
| He's currently 84 years old. | ||
| He was a child during World War II. | ||
| This quaint picture that Wayne is painting sounds kind of foreign to modern ears, maybe, but it's super common among people who were born in the 30s. | ||
| Oh, yeah? | ||
| How would they even get jobs? | ||
| You know how hard the job market is now. | ||
| I assume it's exactly the same whenever most of the male population is going and fighting a war overseas. | ||
| There were no job openings. | ||
| He talks about paying his own way through college, and it's like, yeah. | ||
| College cost like $600 a year back then. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| My aunt and I used to get into conversations about that. | ||
| She was like, I paid for my college all four years, and when I walked out, I didn't have any debt. | ||
| And it's like, how much did you pay for college? | ||
| $2,000 a semester. | ||
| Do you know how much? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, it's not really addressed so much. | ||
| You know, Alex keeps bringing up the, like, things that are sort of geared towards the, like, everyone saying Ron's a racist. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| But it's not really addressed all that much. | ||
| It's just, like, pushed back on without really... | ||
| Well, not only that, but he never took Medicare. | ||
| If the patient come in to his office, he took care of them. | ||
| If they... | ||
| Didn't have the money. | ||
| They made an agreement as to how they were going to get paid, and he took care of them. | ||
| But he never took Medicare any time while he was being a doctor. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| Never took it, and in many cases would just give people free health care is what ended up happening. | ||
| So this is, and particularly for, quote, minorities. | ||
| What? | ||
| I mean, most doctors would just turn you away right there. | ||
| Oh, really? | ||
| There's your brother, hardworking, living by example of his parents, all the things he's done, truly understands the issues, and that's why the system's so scared of him, because they know he can't be bought, and there's no skeletons in his closet. | ||
| Same thing that Alex says about Trump. | ||
| He can't be bought. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| There's no skeletons in the closet, despite the massive amounts of skeletons in both of their closets. | ||
| Well, they're very large skeletons. | ||
| They're specifically closets built for skeletons. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| They hang them up very nicely to display. | ||
| Full of skeletons. | ||
| And also, there's a big difference between what Alex is presenting. | ||
| He gave people free healthcare and what Wayne is describing, which is he worked under the table. | ||
| Yeah, he bartered with people. | ||
| We'll work out a deal where you can pay me so I don't have to go through the administrative bullshit of Medicare or whatever. | ||
| I don't want someone on staff to file these claims, so how about you give me a gold coin worth $200 and we'll call it $1. | ||
| Yeah, that's different. | ||
| Whatever Wayne is describing is like, Quaint, and I don't know the legality of, I don't know the details of if you can or can't do that, or you should or shouldn't. | ||
| What are the ramifications of it? | ||
| But that's not giving people free healthcare. | ||
| Whatever's going on is fucked up. | ||
| It's weird. | ||
| But you see the quote minorities. | ||
| Alex is pushing back on this thing by using this as a way of being like, he can't be racist. | ||
| He gave healthcare to quote minorities. | ||
| The idea... | ||
| That other places would turn away black patients. | ||
| But Ron Paul! | ||
| The hero of the minority community is the only one who will take them. | ||
| Give me a fucking break. | ||
| In fairness, I think what he was talking about more specifically was people who couldn't pay. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And Alex was saying it was largely in, quote, minority areas. | ||
| But the turning away people at hospitals was more about the not paying than the fact that they're black. | ||
| Although Alex is combining those two. | ||
| To make Ron Paul appear more virtuous. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| While at the same time demonizing black people for always being poor. | ||
| Well, I mean, he's read the newsletters. | ||
| Alex is a well-read man. | ||
| Fair enough. | ||
| So Ron Paul is going into the Iowa caucus and Wayne has some concerns. | ||
| And that is... | ||
| He's too good a candidate. | ||
| Certainly. | ||
| I mean, that is a concern. | ||
| There's dirty tricks, perhaps, going on behind the scenes. | ||
| It does show the awakening is huge, that despite the lying Decepticon media telling everybody that Ron Paul can't win, he now is the frontrunner, and they are in full panic mode. | ||
| What are some of the dirty tricks you're expecting them to pull, Wayne? | ||
| Well, I'm concerned. | ||
| Not about the caucus meetings tonight in Iowa, because I believe the people in the individual precincts and caucus meetings are the grassroots, serious-minded individuals, and that means it doesn't matter who they support, any one of the candidates. | ||
| They're normally very dedicated, hard-working people. | ||
| All right, moving along, Wayne. | ||
| Let's go. | ||
| Speak quicker. | ||
| ...for the person they believe that is right. | ||
| I believe those precinct numbers will be honest, sincere in every way, shape, or form. | ||
| My concern would be what happens when they go to a secret place and tally the votes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That is not transparency. | |
| So, it's fun, this concern. | ||
| Because, I mean, you know, transparency is an issue with these sorts of issues. | ||
| These sorts of primaries and caucuses. | ||
| But it's interesting that he's talking about this dirty tricks that are going to be going on at the Iowa caucus. | ||
| Because there were dirty tricks. | ||
| But... | ||
| They were done by Ron Paul. | ||
| You bet. | ||
| So there's something really interesting about what happened with the Iowa caucus in 2012, and that was Mitt Romney was... | ||
| Everybody kind of thought odds-on favorite of somebody who was going to take the Republican nomination. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure. | ||
| Though there were people in the race, like Gingrich had a little bit of juice going. | ||
| Santorum was an appealing candidate to some people. | ||
| He's made of juice, if you know him. | ||
| And Ron Paul had that outsider fringe thing that had that libertarian vibe. | ||
| There were even other candidates. | ||
| There was a lot of things going on. | ||
| But Mitt Romney was seen by most as being the odds-on guy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| Mitt Romney was 2012's Hillary. | ||
| He announced prior to the caucuses, even as far back as late 2011, that Mitt Romney announced that he wasn't going to participate in the Iowa straw poll. | ||
| And he seemed like he was taking a pretty low-intensity approach to the Iowa caucuses as a whole, which allowed people like Ron Paul a big opening to really hit the ground hard, try and get people out to the caucuses. | ||
| So despite a fairly meek attempt at wooing Iowa, Romney was initially declared the winner of the Iowa caucuses. | ||
| The report of the vote count was said that he beat Rick Santorum by eight votes, which is kind of irrelevant because total supporters don't necessarily translate to the number of delegates in caucus situations. | ||
| Caucuses are stupid. | ||
| They're very weird. | ||
| They're very stupid. | ||
| I don't know if they're stupid, but they're weird. | ||
| After the tallies were certified... | ||
| It turned out that Rick Santorum had actually beat Romney by 34 votes, but all of it was kind of moot because Ron Paul won almost all of the state's delegates, even though he was 3,800 votes behind either Romney or Santorum. | ||
| And he won how many of their delegates? | ||
|
unidentified
|
22 out of 28. Okay, and that is not stupid? | |
| For what reason? | ||
| His campaign was able to achieve this by manipulating the rules of how delegates work in caucuses. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Delegates are elected, but they're not bound to vote for the person who wins the state. | ||
| In this case, Santorum. | ||
| Because of this little quirk, Paul's campaign worked to get his supporters in positions where they would be elected as delegates, who were then free to vote for whoever they wanted. | ||
| That's insane! | ||
|
unidentified
|
In this case, Ron Paul. | |
| Due to this political maneuver, Ron Paul was kind of sleazily able to win 22 out of 28 elections up for grabs, even though he came in third. | ||
| So he just snuck people in there? | ||
| I don't know exactly how much subterfuge went on. | ||
| I'm not entirely sure how much of it was actual nefarious stuff. | ||
| Based on the turn... | ||
| That's not okay. | ||
| It is not okay for the guy in third to get... | ||
| What, 80% or 70%? | ||
| Yeah, I mean, and I also think, like, as I look at that, I think that's not really cheating, but it's a little bit of backroom, not transparent, kind of shady. | ||
| There's a certain part of me that finds that a little bit charming. | ||
| I'm not gonna lie. | ||
| I mean, yeah. | ||
| I have mixed feelings about it. | ||
| Because on the one hand, it does mean that whoever was doing that was definitely super motivated. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| They were very into the process. | ||
| They knew the rules. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Too well. | ||
| But on the other hand, it is subverting the will of the people a little bit. | ||
| I mean, there is that. | ||
| So I don't know. | ||
| Anyway, Wayne should be less concerned about the... | ||
| Strategy that it appears Ron was using. | ||
| Every time these guys say, you better watch out for voter fraud on the other side, it's because we're about to do some voter fraud on ours. | ||
| And I don't know how much Wayne is even aware of that, because quite frankly, I don't know how much he's aware of, period. | ||
| So, we get back in this next clip to just, like, echoes of Trump and the way Alex sold Trump. | ||
| Like, if you take the name Ron Paul out of here, I think... | ||
| Probably sounds very similar to how Alex would talk about Trump. | ||
| Once people convert to liberty and put together all the pieces of it and understand how things work, there's no going back. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, that's the issue. | ||
| Ron Paul's not filling people with his ideology. | ||
| He's getting people to rediscover history, rediscover common sense, rediscover what made America great versus the horrible stuff we're being sold by the establishment. | ||
| It's the establishment that's got something to hide. | ||
| It's the establishment that's discredited and kooky, not Ron Paul. | ||
| And every month we exponentially grow, and that's why the system's scared. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Alex says everything is exponential. | ||
| Exponential. | ||
| He learned that word in high school. | ||
| So, I mean, he even said make America great. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, I... | ||
| But that, to me, is fucked up. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because that can't be... | ||
| I mean, that's a coincidence. | ||
| It's not his idea. | ||
| No. | ||
| They didn't get it from him. | ||
| No, but the fact that that ends up being Trump's rallying slogan, and it's how he's talking about Ron Paul in 2012, it's just weird. | ||
| There's so much. | ||
| I think it makes perfect sense, based on what we're experiencing right now with Alex. | ||
| This is the same problem that he's having on the Trump train. | ||
| He only has one way to sell a candidate. | ||
| He's got a million ways to try and tear down a candidate, but he's only got one way to sell one. | ||
| And it's this. | ||
| And it's this. | ||
| So when Trump comes along, it doesn't matter if it's true or not. | ||
| He's selling Trump, so he sells him as if it's Ron Paul. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| He's only got one way. | ||
| It is interesting. | ||
| And I mean, I think that one of the shortcomings of this podcast so far and like in terms of what we've listened to is that there hasn't been a ton of our coverage of how he promoted Ron Paul during those years. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And it does make me wonder just this little glimpse of him talking to Wayne. | |
| It makes me wonder how much like we could go back to the Ron Paul time and hear almost direct parallels of how Alex promoted Trump. | ||
| Yeah, I would be surprised if there was like way heavier overlap than. | ||
| Well, I would be interested now in just, like, going through each of the candidates since, like, 2000 and finding which one... | ||
| It's all been Ron Paul. | ||
| Well, yeah, that's fair. | ||
| I was just saying, if he picked different ones at that time and sold them the same way, but then it's like, it's always been Ron Paul, of course. | ||
| In 2016, it would have been Ron Paul, but instead it was Rand. | ||
| Don't know. | ||
| Did Ron Paul run in 2004? | ||
| He might have. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't remember. | ||
| I just know 2008 and 2012 were his big runs. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hmm. | |
| Yeah, I don't know. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think it's... | ||
| Surprised that his big runs came against a black president. | ||
| Weird. | ||
| It's almost like certain people were more in... | ||
| He's read the newsletters. | ||
| So, there's another sort of parallel here. | ||
| And you'll hear that in this next clip. | ||
| They've been able to control and stick him in a hole somewhere and not have to deal with him. | ||
| But those times are changing now, so each day as it changes, I am in greater fear of his life for he and his family. | ||
| No, no, you're right. | ||
| But he's committed to it as a champion. | ||
| But let's elaborate on this after the break. | ||
| This is the next point I wanted to raise. | ||
| We're right on the same page together. | ||
| So, you have that same, also, that parallel of, like, Alex is pitching the crisis with Trump. | ||
| It's like, he's too popular. | ||
| They're gonna kill him. | ||
| They're gonna kill him. | ||
| He can't be controlled. | ||
| And he knows they're gonna kill him anyways, but he's still doing it because he just believes so hard. | ||
| He's willing to die for this. | ||
| Alex says that about Trump all the fucking time. | ||
| All the time. | ||
| I mean, it's almost shocking, really, to look at this and be like, wow. | ||
| Oh, I guess that's what he does then. | ||
| Yeah, it's almost copy and paste. | ||
| Yeah, it really is. | ||
| It's formulaic. | ||
| It's very strange. | ||
| So, again, Wayne Paul is not like a guy who's relevant. | ||
| Brilliant accountant Wayne Paul. | ||
| Alex doesn't ask him about accountancy. | ||
| Ah, it seems like that would be his best interview shot. | ||
| No, his best interview shot is to ask, what about when you were kids? | ||
| Let's get back more into this. | ||
| Who got started waking up to this whole New World Order collectivist slave system? | ||
| Was it you? | ||
| Was it another brother? | ||
| Was it Ron? | ||
| Give us that lore. | ||
| There it is. | ||
| In the Austrian economic theory, which is free enterprise, private property, and liberty to do what you want, he learned and understood this issue. | ||
| So on our last episode, we talked about how the Mies Institute believes that you have the right to allow your child to die, because forcing you to feed them is an infringement on your rights. | ||
| They are... | ||
| A mess. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And Ron Paul was there at the beginning. | ||
| He got it from the source. | ||
| He read all of this Ludwig von Mies shit and he went buck wild with it. | ||
| I like that it's while he was waiting for babies. | ||
| I imagine he's standing there next to the woman pushing and he's just got his watch out and reading a fucking book on Austrian economics. | ||
| Look, according to this book, I'm not obligated to help you give birth. | ||
| If you die, you die. | ||
| That's what the book says. | ||
| Look, forcing me... | ||
| To help you in your pregnancy is a positive responsibility and an infringement on my rights. | ||
| Based on the Mies Institute, wouldn't he be allowed to first ask for payment before he gives her the baby? | ||
| Probably. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think so. | ||
| So we talked about that issue with the Mies Institute on the last episode, but today I want to tell you about how they celebrated Christmas 1998. | ||
| And that was by posting an article defending Ebenezer Scrooge. | ||
| Alright, guys, we got this one. | ||
| So, from the article, quote, The fact is, if Cratchit's skills were worth more to anyone than the 15 shillings Scrooge pays him weekly, there would be someone glad to offer it to him. | ||
| Since no one has, and since Cratchit's profit-maximizing boss is hardly a man to pay for nothing, Cratchit must be worth exactly his present wages. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't think they got the point of the story, Ian. | |
| I'm starting to think that their quibble isn't with Dickens. | ||
| No. | ||
| Quote, no doubt Cratchit needs, i.e. | ||
| wants. | ||
| More. | ||
| To support his family and to care for Tiny Tim. | ||
| Food. | ||
| But Scrooge did not force Cratchit to father children he's having difficulty supporting. | ||
| If Cratchit had children while suspecting he would be unable to afford them, he, not Scrooge, is responsible for their plight. | ||
| There you go. | ||
| The math checks out. | ||
| The math checks out. | ||
| You gotta take responsibility for your actions. | ||
| So the Mies Institute also takes aim at the ghost of Christmas past. | ||
| Alright, what about the conditions at the time? | ||
| Definitely leading to Tiny Ten's series of ailments. | ||
| That wasn't his choice. | ||
| Did he have a choice to live in London? | ||
| They don't get into that. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| But it goes to Christmas Past. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Quote, Scrooge's first employer, good old Fezziwig, was a bit freer with the guinea. | ||
| He throws his employees a Christmas party. | ||
| What the Ghost of Christmas Past does not explain is how Fezziwig afforded it. | ||
| Did he attempt to pass the added costs on to his customers? | ||
| Or did young Scrooge pay for it anyway by working for marginally lower wages? | ||
| Man, these guys are on it. | ||
| They'd be fun to hang out with. | ||
| Clearly they fucking love Ebenezer Scrooge. | ||
| Hey, could you get me a beer? | ||
| Your friendship is not valuable enough for one full beer. | ||
| I will get you one half. | ||
| So, about Scrooge, this is how they close the article. | ||
| Quote, there can be no arguing with Dickens' wish to show the spiritual advantages of love, but there was no need to make the object of his lesson an entrepreneur whose ideas and practices benefit his employees, society at large, and himself. | ||
| Won't anybody think of the oligarchs, Dan? | ||
| Won't anybody think of how they must feel? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| These guys are real shitheads. | ||
| That almost has to be deliberate trolling, and I would believe that if they didn't believe everything that they're saying. | ||
| Based on a lot of stuff that I've read from them, I do not believe this is trolling. | ||
| I think it's probably written with a little bit of a wink, but the wink is like, aren't I clever? | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| It's less like, I'm fucking with you. | ||
| Look at this. | ||
| I'm taking this story. | ||
| Look at how I read this book better than you, you dumb dumb. | ||
| That's the wink. | ||
| That's the comedy of it. | ||
| I just admire that kind of certain, like, oh, I'm going after this one cherished, immortal story that everybody easily gets the moral of. | ||
| And I'm going to flip it on its head, baby. | ||
| You guys don't have shit on me. | ||
| Yeah, there's just a central problem. | ||
| With philosophies that put private property as the top thing, the highest priority. | ||
| And then secondarily... | ||
| Libertarianism has a real problem because the non-aggression principle that's so central to libertarian thought is incoherent. | ||
| And so trying to apply those two things and apply them to all sorts of life situations, you just end up with nonsensical shit like Scrooge was the real victim and you should be able to let your kids starve. | ||
| Great. | ||
| Let's follow our beliefs to their logical conclusion and all of our children are starved to death. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| I think we might be on to something. | ||
| So Ron Paul read all that stuff. | ||
| Hell yeah. | ||
| And then decided, here's a career. | ||
| That's what I got. | ||
| I'm going to do this for the next 40 fucking years. | ||
| That's because one lady had to wait. | ||
| She was in labor for like three days. | ||
| He read all of the books and now he's sick of being a doctor. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| So we know one thing. | ||
| A lot about Wayne Paul. | ||
| Like, defining characteristic. | ||
| I mean, it's what you said as soon as you heard his name. | ||
| And that is that he believes that three people voted for the Federal Reserve. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Because he said that in Alex's documentary. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And then it turns out he says it on the show, too. | ||
| He really does believe this. | ||
| He does. | ||
| We had more real wealth growth per capita for every person in the United States than ever conceived of by man. | ||
| That's right. | ||
| It was over 10% a year. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| And what happened? | ||
| In December of 1913, the Federal Reserve Act was passed by three people on the floor of the House. | ||
| There it is. | ||
| And 20 years later, in 1933, we turned around and Roosevelt declares the United States bankrupt. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| I mean, that's just lunacy. | ||
| There's no other way to put it. | ||
| It's so easy to show that that is not true. | ||
| That's just... | ||
| You're being deliberately obtuse if you continue to believe that. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think he's just maybe old. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| And dumb. | ||
| That could be also. | ||
| I worry about the Paul family. | ||
| You think so? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know their other siblings. | ||
| But the two of them are not a good example of... | ||
| Of, like, really well-thought-out positions. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, if I were Ron, I would be like, Wayne, don't go on Infowars and say that three people voted in the Federal Reserve. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That looks bad. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Just because I also believe it's true doesn't mean you want to say it in front of the normies. | ||
| Very strange. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So here's the last clip we have. | ||
| It's Alex asking for closing comments. | ||
| Closing comments in the two minutes we've got left, sir. | ||
| I'm delighted for the opportunity to be on the radio. | ||
| I, again, want to reiterate, we live in the most exciting time of my life. | ||
| I think that the United States is going to change in terms of its economic environment. | ||
| I think we have the right answers when change is needed. | ||
| And I think every citizen of the United States can look forward to an unbelievable prosperity in this country if we turn around and understand what's going on and we fight for our lives. | ||
| It didn't. | ||
| I like the idea that he's saying that he's living in the most exciting time of his life. | ||
| He lived through the fucking World War II, Civil Rights era, Vietnam War, Korean War. | ||
| What are you talking about? | ||
| MASH wasn't that good, man. | ||
| Holy shit, the stuff that he lived through. | ||
| He wasn't paying attention. | ||
| I guess it would be really exciting on a subjective level for your brother to run for president again. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But, I don't know. | |
| I don't know if I would consider the 2012 election. | ||
| To be the most exciting time of the last 70 plus years. | ||
| Yeah, I would say that's probably one of the more boring elections that we've had in a long time. | ||
| It was pretty much a foregone conclusion. | ||
| Yeah, it wasn't. | ||
| I don't remember it being very invigorating. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| Especially after the whole 47% thing where it's just like, oh, get out of here. | ||
| Get out of here, Romney. | ||
| Gross, Romney. | ||
| You're fucking stupid. | ||
| Yeah, is Wayne still alive? | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| Oh, well, because I was going to say... | ||
| If he thought 2012 was exciting, man, 2020, the end of the world has already been declared by another guest on InfoWars. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's over for humanity. | |
| I knew you had it to do. | ||
| I'm just always at the ready from now on. | ||
| Always there. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, that's the most exciting times, really. | ||
| The end times. | ||
| The end times. | ||
| It would have to be. | ||
| Yeah, I don't know what Wayne Paul's up to. | ||
| He has too easy a name to Google. | ||
| There's plenty of Wayne Pauls, yeah. | ||
| And he's too low profile to really be relevant to anything. | ||
| So I have no idea what he's up to. | ||
| Oh, also, I don't care. | ||
| Oh, there's that. | ||
| I don't care what he's up to. | ||
| I agree with you. | ||
| It's really, really interesting to me. | ||
| And I think that... | ||
| There is an interesting element in that you have the anti-establishment candidate in 2012 in the person of Ron Paul coming into the Iowa caucuses, which has a slight mirror to the present day with the Democratic primary. | ||
| I think there are slight parallels, but far more differences to make them analogous. | ||
| But I think that there is that that's really interesting. | ||
| And then further, I think I'm... | ||
| I'm overwhelmed by how similar Alex is speaking of Ron Paul to how he spoke about Donald Trump, particularly in the lead-up to the 2016 election. | ||
| That I was not expecting to find. | ||
| And it makes me kind of want to dig more into that. | ||
| The Ron Paul runs. | ||
| The more I think about that, that's the thing that makes the most sense to me. | ||
| I didn't consider it, but you're right. | ||
| With the libertarian nonsense people, there's such a narrow view of what even a candidate they could support. | ||
| So if you're trying to sell them anybody, you have to sell them the same way that you sell Ron Paul. | ||
| And Trump can fit some of those bills, but why not just throw them all on there anyway? | ||
| Sell them to libertarians as Ron Paul. | ||
| Even if he's not. | ||
| I just never really considered it for a number of reasons. | ||
| One, they're so different. | ||
| Ron Paul and Donald Trump. | ||
| In reality, they are. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And then second, Alex was already trying to do those characterizations with Rand Paul before he decided to flip to Trump. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| So I never really considered... | ||
| That's a good point. | ||
| I never really considered how much it just might be the boilerplate way I define good candidate. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| It's interesting how... | ||
| Even I, knowing what I know about Alex, give him way too much credit for some kind of depth to what he's doing. | ||
| I really need to probably get rid of some of that. | ||
| It is hard to... | ||
| Because we listened to the lead up there and hearing all of his bullshit, you just assume that he created it, you know? | ||
| You assume that there was some sort of creative element to it because you would have to create it. | ||
| Yeah, with Trump. | ||
| But then you're like, why would I assume that the least creative man who does no research and doesn't care would have a creative take? | ||
| Yeah, it seems like the most likely thing is just like, I've done this. | ||
| I did this with Ron a couple times. | ||
| Bang it out. | ||
| Just switch out some names. | ||
| All my rants. | ||
| It's all muscle memory. | ||
| It seems like it's possible. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| In order to really be more certain of that, I need to go back and listen to a lot of 2008 and 2012, which I may do. | ||
| Maybe something for the future, but for now, it's interesting to take this little glimpse into Alex's Iowa Caucus Day 2012 in order to have something to talk about. | ||
| Yeah, our new research project is just going through every election to find out whether or not Alex supports a candidate and how he describes him. | ||
| It will not be that. | ||
| But, you know, this is a little mini-episode because Alex is on some sort of mysterious vacation where he's gone for a couple days. | ||
| I have no idea what he's doing. | ||
| But it came out of nowhere, and we'll see. | ||
| I think we may have to have an episode on Friday this week. | ||
| We'll see. | ||
| But if he's out of studio on Wednesday and Thursday, then I don't know what the fuck. | ||
| So we'll see what happens. | ||
| But until we see you again. | ||
| We have a website. | ||
| We do have a website. | ||
| It's knowledgefight.com. | ||
| We're also on Twitter. | ||
| We are on Twitter. | ||
| It is at knowledge underscore fight and at GoToBedJordan. | ||
| We're also on Facebook. | ||
| We are on Facebook. | ||
| And if you'd like to download the show, send it to iTunes, leave a review, download, donate, the whole thing. | ||
| We love it. | ||
| We'll be back. | ||
| But until then, I'm Neo. | ||
| I'm Leo. | ||
| I'm DZXClark. | ||
| I'm one of the three people who voted in the Federal Reserve in 1913. | ||
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your work. |
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