Today, Dan and Jordan take a holiday break from Alex Jones to give Dan a present: the opportunity to talk about Bill Cooper. In this episode, the gents go over the first episode of Cooper's radio show, The Hour Of The Time, where Bill discusses a mysterious document that may or may not prove a grand conspiracy.
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|---|---|---|
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unidentified
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I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys. | |
| Knowledge fight. | ||
|
unidentified
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Dan and Jordan. | |
| Knowledge fight. | ||
| I need money. | ||
|
unidentified
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Andy and Pam. | |
| Andy and Pam. | ||
|
unidentified
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Stop it. | |
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| Andy in Kansas. | ||
| It's time to pray. | ||
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding us. | ||
|
unidentified
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Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your world. | ||
|
unidentified
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Knowledge Fight. | |
| KnowledgeFight.com. | ||
| I love you. | ||
| Hey, everybody. | ||
| Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. | ||
| I'm Dan. | ||
| I'm Jordan. | ||
| We're a couple dudes that sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. | ||
| Indeed we are, Dan. | ||
| Jordan. | ||
| Dan! | ||
| Jordan. | ||
|
unidentified
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Jordan. | |
| On this day, I must ask you one quick question. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Have you ever been... | ||
| He has risen. | ||
|
unidentified
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Oh, wait, that's Easter. | |
| Sorry, go ahead. | ||
| Well, he's risen from somewhere. | ||
| Indeed. | ||
| What's up? | ||
| Did you ever go to a nativity play at your church on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day? | ||
| Have you ever seen a good one? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I'm not positive I could critically review any of the ones from my past. | ||
| I don't know exactly. | ||
| I would say definitely. | ||
| I have some vague memories of going to midnight masses. | ||
| Although I was not Catholic, I still think they exist in other denominations. | ||
| And I remember those being really fun. | ||
| I don't know why. | ||
| Really? | ||
| You're up later than you would be. | ||
| You know that Christmas is that much closer. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| You're younger, absolutely, in this situation. | ||
| And it's such a novel thing, you know? | ||
| You're going to church at midnight. | ||
| Weird. | ||
| It's very weird. | ||
| That is weird. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think of nativity scenes as something I drive past. | ||
| You know, that's in my more adult years. | ||
| That's the place that I... | ||
| It's something in someone's yard. | ||
| Even the place. | ||
| Even the church place or something. | ||
| It's in somebody's yard. | ||
| Yeah, it's a church yard. | ||
| Kind of the lights, you know, the version of that. | ||
| I guess that's along with Christmas, too. | ||
| Halloween decorations. | ||
| Nativity place, Halloween decorations, same shit. | ||
| Yeah, that kind of vibe. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Nothing sticks out in my head. | ||
| I've seen a bunch, though. | ||
| I've seen a bunch of people acting out that manger scene. | ||
| It's happened. | ||
| It has. | ||
| So, I don't know. | ||
| I'm sorry I don't have a great answer for that, but I do know a lot about Alex Jones. | ||
| That's what this podcast is about. | ||
| You got it. | ||
| So, Jordan, today I wanted to celebrate this holiday here, this Christmas day, by giving myself a gift. | ||
| Okay, good. | ||
| That's the reason for the season. | ||
| So that means that I'm going to be tortured on this episode. | ||
| No, I don't think so. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I think you'll get a charge out of some of this stuff that we end up talking about. | ||
| Because I wanted to take a step away from Alex Jones. | ||
| Take a day to look at something else that I want to look into. | ||
| And then also, the other thing is that I know that Alex has a tendency of getting a little buck wild around the holidays. | ||
|
unidentified
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Oh yeah! | |
| But I don't want to rush it. | ||
| I want to save that for Monday. | ||
| Okay, okay. | ||
| For Monday, we'll have an Alex Jones holiday special. | ||
| I was looking forward to finding out whether or not he thought that Jesus was an interdimensional alien on this Christmas. | ||
| He might, but a good international alien. | ||
| No, I believe it was last year he threw hatchets in the studio on Christmas Eve, and we'll see if he can top himself this year. | ||
| What else is there to throw? | ||
| But that'll be for Monday. | ||
| For now, we have something else to do. | ||
| But before we get to that, take a little moment, Jordan, to say thank you to some folks who have signed up and are supporting the show. | ||
| So first, Jason, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, Jason. | ||
| Next, Mary, thank you so much. | ||
| You're now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, Mary. | ||
| Next, Mary on the Christmas episode? | ||
| Come on now. | ||
| Yeah, a little on the nose. | ||
| Next, Jesus. | ||
| No. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, policy wonk. | ||
| Next, Stu. | ||
| Just S-T-U. | ||
| On Christmas? | ||
|
unidentified
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What? | |
| You're now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you so much, Stu. | ||
| Next, J.R. from the Derek Zoolander Center for Kids Who Can't Read Good. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, J.R. Next, Sam. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You're now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, Sam. | ||
| Thanks, Sam. | ||
| Next, Satan's Little Monkey, but it's spelled M-O-N-K-E-E, so it might be Davy Jones. | ||
| Yeah, that's way better. | ||
| Michael Nesmith. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Which one of them worships Satan? | ||
| Mickey Dolenz. | ||
| How do you know the names of the monkeys? | ||
| You don't know the monkeys? | ||
| You were born after the monkeys! | ||
| Yeah, they like to monkey around. | ||
|
unidentified
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They're pretty fun. | |
| Okay. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You're now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Yes, thank you very much. | ||
| Mike Nesmith. | ||
|
unidentified
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Satan's little monkey. | |
| Satan's little monkey. | ||
| And finally, I'd like to say thank you to somebody who donated on Elevated Level. | ||
| We appreciate that very much. | ||
| So, Gareth, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a technocrat. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Crikey, mate. | ||
|
unidentified
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That's fantastic. | |
| Have yourself a brew. | ||
| How's your 401k doing, bro? | ||
| All right, we got to go full tilt boogie on this, Watson, all right? | ||
| Let's just get down to business. | ||
| We ain't making that money off that heroin. | ||
| Why are you pimp so good? | ||
| My neck is freakishly large. | ||
| I declare Infowar on you. | ||
| Thank you so much, Gareth. | ||
| Yes, thank you very much, Gareth. | ||
| If you're out there listening and you're thinking, hey, I enjoy this show, I'd like to support what these gents do, you can do that by going to our website, knowledgefight.com, clicking the button that says support the show. | ||
| We would appreciate it. | ||
| It'd be lovely. | ||
| So, Jordan, today what I'm doing is I've been in a bit of an identity crisis with the show. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| A little bit. | ||
| Because I feel like we've been in a situation where we've had our wacky Wednesdays. | ||
| And there have been problems. | ||
| There have been corridors we've tried to go down. | ||
| It's like, what are we doing? | ||
| There's a fine balance to exactly what is good to cover and what isn't. | ||
| And it's really difficult to walk that line. | ||
| Like, Reverend Manning is super interesting, and I'm glad we covered him, but I don't think there's value to covering him anymore. | ||
| No, he should be in prison. | ||
| Project Camelot does not charm me anymore. | ||
| I'm not sure exactly how interesting it is to cover any more of that. | ||
| A lot of people are in prison on that show. | ||
| That's really difficult. | ||
| I don't know what to do. | ||
| And so to remedy that problem, one of the things that I came up with was Coast to Coast AM. | ||
| That's going to be a great idea. | ||
| And I gotta tell you... | ||
| It was a better idea than it is in practice. | ||
| Ah, no. | ||
| Because the episodes are really long of Coast to Coast, and they're very boring. | ||
| Most of the time, they're very boring and not worth talking about. | ||
| Yeah, of course. | ||
| So you end up... | ||
| Eating tons of time in this preparation of things that go nowhere. | ||
| You're sacrificing 15 hours for the possibility of maybe 10 minutes of our show being worth talking about. | ||
| And that's a ratio I can't keep up if we're going to be able to do this. | ||
| And the second thing, too, is I started to realize as I was listening to more and more Coast to Coast AM, it's like, yeah, George Norrie sucks. | ||
| He definitely sucks. | ||
| A bit of it's subtle. | ||
| But the thing that comes up much more is callers saying really stupid things. | ||
| And I don't want us to do episodes about Coast to Coast AM where we're just like, look at this dumbass! | ||
| Shit-talking callers holds no interest for me. | ||
| Except for when they're Alex's callers and they're saying, should we start shooting people? | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| But that's not shit-talking. | ||
| That's terrifying. | ||
| It just didn't feel like it would be satisfying in any way. | ||
| It's a ton of work for very little content. | ||
| And then some of the content will be really... | ||
| Not what I'm comfortable with or what I want our show to be. | ||
| So that has turned me off a bit on the idea of Coast to Coast. | ||
| But we need something else. | ||
| And I realized what is what interests me. | ||
| Like what is something that I think is going to be in line with the show, interesting, add to everything. | ||
| And the only thing I can come up with and the only thing I really want to do. | ||
| I want to talk about Bill Cooper. | ||
|
unidentified
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Ah! | |
| I was going to guess the Final Fantasy series, but I think Bill Cooper does fit more in line. | ||
| I was way off. | ||
| I want to talk about William Milton Cooper. | ||
| His middle name is Milton? | ||
| No, first name. | ||
| Oh, his first name is Milton? | ||
| Milton William Cooper. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It's a good idea to go by Bill. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Bill Cooper is a guy who was on shortwave radio for years and is basically what you'd call the prototype of Alex. | ||
| And he has years worth of his radio show available from 1993 when he started. | ||
| The hour of the time on WWCR shortwave radio to his death in 2001. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I think that this would be the avenue down which we can find the most wackiness, the most relevance, and the most that I'm interested in. | ||
| Right. | ||
| We're going back to the beginning. | ||
| We're starting at the beginnings of this. | ||
| I wouldn't say the beginning because I think that there's even further back things. | ||
| Right, like Cicero. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| There are other things that probably are influences that may be conscious, subconscious, at least historically relevant. | ||
| And maybe that's something else we could do, but I want to talk about Bill Cooper. | ||
| Let's do it. | ||
| So I've been listening to a bunch of him, and it's fascinating to me, because for the last weeks... | ||
| I've been listening to his show in addition to listening to Alex's show in the present day. | ||
| That's wild. | ||
| And it's just depressing. | ||
| Yeah, it has to be. | ||
| It's so staggering to see the difference between this guy who was at the top of his game doing this shortwave malicious show in 93 and Alex in 2019. | ||
| The juxtaposition is almost unsettling. | ||
| Like, how bad Alex is. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| So what I've got for you today, Jordan, is we're going to be listening to the premiere episode of the Hour of the Time. | ||
| Alright, in 93, so we're going to get a lot of Clinton shit talk. | ||
| Is that what's happening? | ||
| Very little. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So, though Bill Cooper had been on some form of pirate radio for about a decade up to this point already, this is considered the first episode of his more mainstream show, the legendary... | ||
| The hour of the time. | ||
| On January 4th, 1993, Bill began airing weeknights on WWCR. | ||
| I believe it was 11 o 'clock central was when his show would air. | ||
| So he got the primo time slot. | ||
| For this sort of thing. | ||
| Yeah, that's fair. | ||
| That's fair. | ||
| This is exactly where you want to be. | ||
|
unidentified
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That's fair. | |
| So WWCR is probably the largest shortwave radio station in the country. | ||
| It's broadcast out of Nashville, and the shows can be heard all over the United States, and it brought Bill Cooper to a much wider audience than he had had previously. | ||
| WWCR is also the shortwave station that got into a business relationship with Genesis Communications Network and eventually ended up airing Alex's show. | ||
| But in 1993, that's two years before Alex ever was around, Bill is on this shortwave station. | ||
| Knocking it out of the park, bringing the militia community to the world. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Bill's a gigantic topic, and from the amount of the shows that I've listened to, I think he's a very complicated figure. | ||
| He's someone with abhorrent views on many topics. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| But he's also a person who's miles ahead of the right wing on some topics that you would not expect. | ||
| In some places, I find it very interesting. | ||
| What I look at it as, I think he's a human, as opposed to someone like Alex, who's full of shit. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I think that Bill is a flawed and in many ways bad person. | ||
| Human. | ||
| But a person. | ||
| But a human, yeah. | ||
| Right, which makes it so much more interesting to me. | ||
| Yeah, Alex is more of a construct at this point. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| There are many things that I know about Bill, and there's many things that I don't know about him. | ||
| And I don't want to let those color the topic that we're talking about today. | ||
| So today is about this episode. | ||
| So we'll talk about what he brings up in this episode. | ||
| There are plenty of other things. | ||
| I could say, hey, this show is interesting. | ||
| Well, what about his AIDS denial? | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| That's something to talk about on the episode where he gets into that. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Not going to deny that that is completely fucked up. | ||
| If you think we're defending him for that, then you got to stop listening to this show. | ||
| So this is the premiere. | ||
| This is the first episode. | ||
| January 4th. | ||
| Every show of his starts with air raid sirens and dogs barking and terrifying soundscape. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| That sort of thing. | ||
| It's very hard to listen to. | ||
|
unidentified
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Okay. | |
| Life's power of the power. | ||
| Peace is power of the time. | ||
| Life's power for the perfectness of your body. | ||
| Soul, your body. | ||
| Soul, your body. | ||
| It's very upsetting. | ||
|
unidentified
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It's very upsetting. | |
| I want to pause here really fast because this does go on, but it's very interesting to me that in the last couple months at least, and probably a little bit further back than that, Alex has been coming out of break sometimes with just air raid sirens. | ||
| And it's very reminiscent of the beginning of Bill Cooper's Hour of the Time. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| This was recorded at Disneyland? | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah. | |
| Okay. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I told you, it goes on a while. | ||
| He lets it fade? | ||
| He doesn't stop it? | ||
| He lets it fade out? | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
| What you have just heard, listeners, all over the world, is a warning. | ||
| And you will hear this warning from here on out. | ||
| You've been listening to your leaders tell you that there is a great move toward democracy in the world. | ||
| You witnessed the parting of the Iron Curtain, the fall of the Berlin Wall, the fracturing of the Soviet Union. | ||
| And this is all supposedly toward a new worldwide democracy. | ||
| Aha! | ||
| Supposedly is doing a lot of work in that sentence. | ||
| First sentence out of his mouth. | ||
| Starting this new show on WWCR, the premise is you see the dropping of the Iron Curtain and all of this. | ||
| It's all in service of a one-world democracy, a one-world government. | ||
| So we know from the jump this dude's all about that. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Of course he is. | ||
| So, look, the problem in the world, it seems external, but really it's within each and every one of us. | ||
| All right. | ||
| So Bill drops that on us, and then, man, this guy. | ||
| What a broadcaster. | ||
| But don't get down, folks. | ||
| All is not lost. | ||
| The problem lies within each and every one of you, and therein also lies the answer. | ||
| I'm your host, William Cooper, and you're listening to the Hour of the Time. | ||
|
unidentified
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The Hour of the Time That is a jarring turn from the air raid sirens and dogs. | |
| You can make a fish, you can make a fish in your life. | ||
| Like you need to step away, right, right. | ||
| Up on the right, right, right, right, right. | ||
| You have a little baby, you need to step away, right. | ||
| They are all lying to you. | ||
|
unidentified
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But this song Oh For the listeners, Dan is lip-syncing. | |
| Oh, man, Bill Cooper is so much better at this than Alex. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And one of the things I've noticed from listening to his show is that he's not afraid to make his show a multimedia experience. | ||
| Bill incorporates music into his show that has a thematic connection to the topic that he's covering. | ||
| That indicates preparation. | ||
| It indicates intention. | ||
| He has a topic that he wants to cover, and he's going to help drive his points home with artistic assistance. | ||
| In this case, in his first episode of The Hour of the Time, Bill chose to open his show with the long-forgotten Beach Boys quote-unquote hit, Make It Big, from the Troop Beverly Hills soundtrack. | ||
| The song was also on their 1989 album, Still Cruisin', which was almost universally panned by critics as being trash. | ||
| The review on Rolling Stone opens with this line, quote, If you've been waiting for the Beach Boys to hit rock bottom, the suspense is over. | ||
| Okay, that's a generous opening line. | ||
| This was the album that included their cover of Wipeout featuring the Fat Boys, if that gives you some idea of what they were up to at that point. | ||
| They weren't doing pet sounds anymore. | ||
|
unidentified
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That's true. | |
| That's true. | ||
| I will give you that. | ||
| In prepping this episode, I went back and watched that video for Wipeout, and I can report that it's as embarrassing as I remembered it being. | ||
| Oh, so they hadn't yet hit rock bottom. | ||
| That was part of it. | ||
| Anyway, the point here is that Bill is the kind of broadcaster who's down to open his show with a full song. | ||
| He plays the full song. | ||
| In order to set the mood. | ||
| And I'm here to tell you that it rules. | ||
| This kind of thing honestly makes me super giddy. | ||
| Spending so much time as I do studying Alex, I'm like a man starving for someone who's trying. | ||
| And the fact that Bill opens a show like this is just awesome. | ||
| The way I feel about Alex Jones is that he's mostly checked out. | ||
| He's going through the motions of trying to spin conspiracy theories, but he's too confused by his own ideas, and he's in too deep that he doesn't even know what he's doing anymore. | ||
| He can't be bothered to spend any time preparing, so he just yells convoluted nonsense on air, plugs his pills, gets a bit racist, then screams about the literal devil for a while. | ||
| It doesn't necessarily feel good to demonstrate how he's wrong about stuff in 2019. | ||
| It just feels kind of sad most of the time. | ||
| It's incoherent. | ||
| But Bill Cooper, here is a man deserving of my attention. | ||
| Here is a guy who is trying. | ||
| I'm going to stop just short of saying that I like Bill Cooper. | ||
| But he's definitely much more serious and a competent person than Alex. | ||
| And on some level, I definitely admire that. | ||
| Even if I disagree with just about everything I know he believes. | ||
| It's very close to you. | ||
| You've got to give it up to the Somali pirates. | ||
| Very close to that. | ||
| You've got to give it up to Bill Cooper. | ||
| He's opening up his show with a fucking Beach Boys song, Make It Big. | ||
| I know it's probably confusing what I mean by thematic connection, but you'll start to understand it as we go along. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Like, when I was listening to it, I had the same response to you. | ||
| I was laughing. | ||
| And I was like, what the fuck is he opening up with? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| This ridiculous song. | ||
| It wasn't a long walk from air raid sirens and dogs barking and fucking Nazis marching to the beach. | ||
|
unidentified
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It was maybe a minute and a half. | |
| It was maybe a minute and a half. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's not long enough. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I have to think that Bill is in control of his show enough. | ||
| It's on shortwave. | ||
| It's not like you have payola going around. | ||
| He gets to choose exactly how he wants to present the show and it's his first show on this weeknight syndicated shortwave show. | ||
| How am I going to present myself? | ||
| This is a statement song. | ||
| Although I do find it weirdly plausible that Dennis Wilson could, like, half-ass backwards his way into being like, hey, there's this new show. | ||
| It's got this really great host. | ||
| You gotta be on it. | ||
| We just gotta pay him a little bit. | ||
| Just a little bit of cha-ching. | ||
| Yeah, and then it's like, we're gonna start a war! | ||
| No, you'll see the theme. | ||
| And I think it's just great. | ||
| This guy, he gets it. | ||
| He knows how to do radio. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And I admire that. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Because I like radio. | ||
| So the song ends, and Bill gets down to introducing something that will be the theme of the episode, although he doesn't get into it immediately. | ||
| Again, it's another great broadcasting trick that Alex thinks he's doing, but he's not, which is that Bill introduces the subject, talks about something else, then really digs into the subject. | ||
| Alex brings up and teases the subject. | ||
| Talks about other stuff, then forgets about everything. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Thinks that he's gotten into the subject when he, in fact, has not. | ||
| He really does believe that he's already taken care of it. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| I think what Alex is doing is almost a bad photocopy of this sort of show. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| So here is Bill introducing the subject that we will be getting into a little bit later. | ||
|
unidentified
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Thank you. | |
| Folks, all the problems are within us, and all the answers are therein also. | ||
| Silent weapon technology has evolved from operations research, or OR. | ||
| A strategy and tactical methodology developed under the military management in England during World War II. | ||
| And this will be the first that most of you have ever heard of it. | ||
| We've got the tease. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We have silent weapon technology that's been developed by OR Operational Research. | ||
| There you go. | ||
| We've got this. | ||
| And now Bill starts speaking, starts just talking about the show itself. | ||
| It's going to be unlike anything you've ever heard in your life. | ||
| Well, already he's got a Garrison Keillor cadence to him, which I find so much more attractive to listen to than Alex's nonsense rambling. | ||
| It feels also, I mean, in the same vein as I was saying that he feels like a real person, the way he speaks feels like a real person communicating. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| Alex has all these affectations to his voice and like... | ||
| Things like, this is ridiculous. | ||
| The way you've been making fun of lately, all the fake passion and stuff. | ||
|
unidentified
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| Like, all that stuff really takes you out of the moment when you're listening to him. | ||
| Whereas Bill, he seems like he's directly communicating exactly how you would if you were talking to him. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| And there's something compelling about that as well. | ||
| But this show will be unlike any other you've ever heard. | ||
| So we've got the introduction to the thesis, and now we get into the, this is what you're listening to. | ||
| It will be unlike anything you've ever heard. | ||
| Almost a sales pitch on the pilot episode. | ||
| And this is not, not any kind of a radio program that you've ever heard before in your life. | ||
| For nothing is sacred here. | ||
| And we're going to lay it all on the line. | ||
| We're not going to beat around the bush. | ||
| And I'm going to tell you something, folks. | ||
| There's nobody here that's afraid of anyone or anybody or anything. | ||
| We have no vested interest in a career in radio. | ||
| So if we get thrown off the air, it's not going to bother us a bit. | ||
| Therefore, we're not going to compromise what we say to stay on the air, irregardless of the pressure. | ||
| This is why he started the show with Make It Big. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This is the thematic. | ||
| Beneath the silent weapons theme that he's going to get to, the topic of the lecture, as it were, the other message that he wants to drive across is served by almost... | ||
| That song being farcical. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, the make it big is in service of, like, we're not going to make it big. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| We're not interested in success. | ||
| We're not the fucking Beach Boys. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Exactly. | |
| It's so good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This is so good. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's the opening of Pride and Prejudice. | ||
| You open with that line as an ironic aside. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| It has a real impact. | ||
| Like, if you're listening, it's like, oh, that's why you played that song. | ||
| Or you don't notice it. | ||
| You get the subconscious intent there. | ||
| If you're critically examining it, you get it. | ||
| But if not, it might just roll off on you. | ||
| And, I mean, look, that Beach Boys album is terrible, but that song's pretty catchy. | ||
| Anyway, Bill gets down to his standard admonition that he gives people, and that is don't trust anything that you hear, not even on my show. | ||
| I love it. | ||
| Before I go any farther, though... | ||
| I'm going to have to give you my standard admonition that all of those who have come to my lectures, who have read my book, everyone who has been listening to this show on satellite or on WWCR since its inception on the 4th of May, 1982, they already know this, but I know that there's many new listeners out there tonight. | ||
| So I'm going to give you this admonition, and you must obey it no matter what. | ||
| You must not believe anything that you hear on this show, or on the Chuck Carter show, or on the Tom Valentine show, or on Larry King Live, or from the lips of Dan Rather, or George Bush, or Bill Clinton, or anyone else in this entire world, whether you hear it on radio, or on television, or from the lips of someone standing right in front of you. | ||
| But you must listen to everyone, no matter who they are or what they are saying. | ||
| That is the true mark of intelligence. | ||
| Listen to everything, believe nothing, until you can prove you yourself. | ||
| You must learn how to find the truth and prove it. | ||
| If you can't do that, you might as well turn off your radio now. | ||
| If you have to call someone else to ask if you should be listening to this show, you should turn off your radio now. | ||
| We don't even want you to listen. | ||
| So when he said that he's on WWCR before, it's my understanding that he had some form of a show, but not weeknights. | ||
| Not this one. | ||
| Yeah, not every weeknight at 11. So, you know, he was... | ||
| Still a figure before, like Behold a Pale Horse, his big book was published in 91. He's been a gigantic figure since at least that point, even before that. | ||
| But this is the launch of the nightly show. | ||
| So just to clarify in case anyone heard that, I was like, what? | ||
| Anyway, he's telling people not to believe anything. | ||
| And this mentality is absolutely universal in conspiracy theory communities. | ||
| But something that I find really interesting is how it plays out differently depending on the personalities of each individual conspiracy theorist. | ||
| For instance, the way Alex presents this is by saying that everything he's saying has been proven. | ||
| It's all declassified. | ||
| It's in the white papers. | ||
| The globalists admit it. | ||
| Go ahead. | ||
| Look it up. | ||
| He's basically suggesting that if you don't agree with him, you're uninformed. | ||
| And if you go ahead and do the research he's done, you'll get up to speed and recognize that he's right. | ||
| It's a strategy that's deployed to make his audience less likely to actually do that research and just to accept that he might be right, or he must be right. | ||
| There's no way he'd be so insistent that I research these things if he knew that when I did, I'd realize he's making shit up. | ||
| It's basically just a bluff. | ||
| I was thinking the exact same thing whenever he said that. | ||
| I was like, this is the inverse of Alex saying that I know everything. | ||
| You go look it up. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Bill's position is, like you're saying, it's a little different, but ultimately the effect I think it has on an audience is the same. | ||
| Yeah, I agree. | ||
| If he's on air saying that you shouldn't trust anything that anyone says without researching it on your own, it kind of stands to reason that he himself wouldn't trust anything he hears without researching it on his own. | ||
| And if you think Bill's credible at all, I would probably subconsciously accept that his research is good enough. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| In effect, telling people to be skeptical of everyone is a way of getting people to only... | ||
| It's an authenticity shortcut. | ||
| And based on some of the stuff we're going to get into later, I don't believe that Bill practices what he preaches. | ||
| The other thing that Bill's doing here is saying that if you aren't going to prove things for yourself, he doesn't even want you listening to the show. | ||
| This has the effect of creating an inflated sense of self in the audience. | ||
| Bill is straight up telling all the dumb followers to stop listening. | ||
| So, by definition, if I keep listening, I must not be one of them. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| It creates an imaginary us versus them of, like, you insulate the audience with this. | ||
| Like, if you are still listening, then you must be one of the champion truth deducers. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| You've researched everything. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| So, I mean, I think the strategy... | ||
| And I don't know how much that's a conscious strategy. | ||
| But that is the effect that you have on people with that sort of thing. | ||
| Yeah, I think what's interesting about that statement he made of don't trust anything anybody says without having researched yourself and all of those things, all of that sounds on a surface level to be fairly good advice. | ||
| You should have a skeptical mind. | ||
| You should be capable of critically researching everything. | ||
| But at the same time, within that statement is the stuff that makes it impossible. | ||
| Like, if you can't trust anyone... | ||
| On anything, then you don't have time. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Then you're going to lose your mind. | ||
| Especially if you take the other piece of advice that he has, and you have to listen to everybody. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| Right, which is also stupid. | ||
| If you listen to everything and don't believe anything, then you will always be looking into things. | ||
| And you've got to consider, too, this is 93. So the internet wasn't what it is today. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| So actually, the audience getting into some of this stuff would be a lot more difficult than it is, let's say, for me to go back and... | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| So in 93, I probably couldn't do a show critically deconstructing what he's talking about because I couldn't get my hands on some of the documents that he's referencing. | ||
| But now it's all been photocopied, scanned, it's all online. | ||
| It's very easy to get to the bottom of like, oh, this is bullshit. | ||
| Yeah, in 93, I imagine too that if you're the type of person who would tune into Bill Cooper's show... | ||
| The stuff that you would be looking up because of the limited availability of infinite knowledge would probably hew more towards the stuff that would reinforce Bill Cooper's ideas. | ||
| You might be driven towards certain data streams and information sources like Patriot message boards and shit like that that have the appearance of confirmation. | ||
| And I think that's probably... | ||
| Strategic. | ||
| Maybe not on Bill's part, but on that larger community's part, for sure. | ||
| Yeah, that is. | ||
| And it's also really fascinating that idea of you should listen to everyone because you're going to trust yourself more. | ||
| The information that you're going to research and look into is going to most likely be counter to the narrative that you passively hear all around you. | ||
| So that also kind of insulates you from, you know, I am listening to everybody, but what I'm looking at, which I think is more important than whatever Dan fucking Rather says, is something that I'm going to trust more than whatever the fuck Dan Yeah. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| All that is in the mix. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, we get back to Bill not wanting to make it big. | ||
| He expounds on this a little bit more, and you'll hear some fairly familiar refrains here. | ||
| I told you that this was not any kind of a radio broadcast that you've ever heard or ever will hear anywhere else. | ||
| You see, most radio personalities have a vested interest in maintaining their show on the air and going up the ladder career-wise and making a lot of money. | ||
| None of those interests prevail here, I can assure you. | ||
| Our interests are in saving freedom for the world. | ||
| The only way that freedom can be saved for the world Is if we can save the Constitution of the United States of America and save this country. | ||
| See, that sounds just like Alex. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I believe him. | ||
| I believe he believes it. | ||
| Yeah, that's right. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I believe there's an authenticity to him saying, like, I am not looking for money. | ||
| We're not trying to get rich here. | ||
| Oh, absolutely. | ||
| But you'll hear Alex say that stuff and then do 40 commercials for krill oil and shit. | ||
| This money isn't about me. | ||
| Me! | ||
| It's about bringing freedom to... | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Whereas I feel a more authentic presentation from Bill. | ||
| I don't think he is trying to get rich. | ||
| No, I agree. | ||
| I think he would have behaved much differently if he was. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And he's not. | ||
| I think he would have died differently. | ||
| Certainly. | ||
| So he's gotten his... | ||
| We're not trying to make it spiel out of the way, and now we get to the thesis. | ||
| The thesis has already been introduced. | ||
| There's these silent weapons. | ||
| Folks, let me continue here with the silent weapon technology that I began with. | ||
| For after they developed this operations research and found out that it could be extremely useful... | ||
| It was soon recognized by those in positions of power that the same methods might be useful for totally controlling a society. | ||
| But better tools at that time were necessary. | ||
| Hmm, better tools. | ||
| All right, so silent weapons, I'm assuming we're no longer talking about silencers on guns. | ||
| No, certainly not. | ||
| No, this is much, much larger than that. | ||
| This is an insidious, I'm going to go with global group of people. | ||
| Yes, exactly. | ||
| They needed better tools, and it turns out what they needed in order to achieve this control over the entire population, turns out it was. | ||
| Social engineering, folks, the analysis and automation of a society requires the correlation of great amounts of constantly changing economic information or data. | ||
| So a high-speed computerized data processing system was necessary, which could race ahead of the society and predict when society would arrive for capitulation. | ||
| Relay computers were too slow. | ||
| But the electronic computer, invented in 1946 by J. Presper Eckert and John W. Mouchley, filled the bill. | ||
| So Bill is clearly reading something here. | ||
| Even the first time through listening to this, I was like, absolutely, he's reading something. | ||
| I'm not sure what it is, but we'll get to that later. | ||
| For now, it's just relevant to point out that what Bill is expressing is that in order to control society, the elites needed to create computers which could process data and tell where things were going in the future so they could plan ahead and be ready for the point when society catches up with their predictive calculations. | ||
| Alex talks about this a lot. | ||
| He often makes obscure references to actuaries and how the globalists use their computer systems, using social media to predict the future so they'll be able to know what to do in advance. | ||
| I have almost no doubt that he's taking it from the same source the bill is currently reading from, because I've never heard Alex give a real source, and it doesn't match up with the reality that I understand from what I've looked into in the field of, like, modeling, statistical modeling, and that sort of stuff. | ||
| So I find this to be another real thematic piece of Alex's stuff that I've never really understood, but you're hearing it echoed in this show from 93, and Bill does give sources. | ||
| What I'm finding already, the pattern that I'm picking up here just a little bit, is he is much more likely to put a solid kernel of something that you do agree with, surrounded by, you know... | ||
| Globalists, you know? | ||
| Alex just lies, for the most part. | ||
| But that's what good conspiracy theorists do. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, for sure! | |
| All competent conspiracy theories start from a place of universal truth. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| We all feel like something's wrong, and here's why. | ||
| Yeah, and this was only a year after the Unabomber, so distressing technology is right on board for this group of folks. | ||
| Sure, but this actually has nothing to do with the Unabomber, and something far more obscure. | ||
| But we'll get into it. | ||
| Just the U-A-Bomber. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| So with silent weapons, these elites are able to carry out what's known as a quiet war against the population. | ||
| And what do you know? | ||
| It started in 1954, and it was carried out by a name that's very familiar. | ||
| The quiet war was quietly declared by the international elite at a meeting held in 1954 in the name of that group, folks. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Ah! | |
| So now, this is something interesting, because Alex talks about how no one was talking about the Bilderberg Group before he came along and started exposing this stuff. | ||
| This is two years before Alex was ever on air. | ||
| Here's Bill Cooper directly saying, the guys who started a silent war in 1954 were the Bilderberg Group. | ||
| Right. | ||
| All of the things that he takes credit for are all things that either Bill Cooper or the larger Patriot community was already... | ||
| Up in arms about before Alex got on air. | ||
| He's just stolen the legacy of this guy, basically. | ||
| That's brutal. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It is. | ||
| I mean, I don't want to lionize or turn Bill into some kind of hero, but he got done dirty by Alex. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, absolutely. | ||
| I don't give a shit. | ||
| I think both of their legacies are going to be shit, but I'm never not going to be like, you stole his shit legacy and that's bad. | ||
| Yeah, you could be a bad person and still get done wrong. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| That's what I see here. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, the Bilderberg group, right, they see us as food. | ||
| They see humans as food. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Which is another theme that you hear Alex talk about all the time. | ||
| We're cattle. | ||
| They just eat us. | ||
| Although the so-called moral issues were raised, in view of the law of natural selection, it was agreed that a nation or world of people who will not use their intelligence are no better than animals who do not have intelligence. | ||
| Such people... | ||
| are beasts of burden and stakes on the table by choice and consent, always have been and always will be. | ||
| Consequently, in the interest of future world order, peace and tranquility, it was decided to privately wage a quiet war against the American public. | ||
| with an ultimate objective of permanently shifting the natural and social energy, or wealth, of the undisciplined and irresponsible many into the hands of the self-disciplined, responsible, and worthy few. | ||
| So you're picking up what's going on here? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, but I'm just so distracted. | ||
| I don't want to compliment this guy, but he's such a better broadcaster. | ||
| Like, immediately after that first line, that pause was the right length of time. | ||
| It was just such a good pause. | ||
| Well, he knows what he's going to do. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like I said at the beginning, there's intention behind what he's doing as opposed to reactive flailing like you see from Alex. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| I don't want to compliment him anymore. | ||
| I'm going to try not to. | ||
| I mean, you can compliment his broadcasting skills because he's obviously, certainly, he's a more serious person. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| Where did he get that quote from? | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| The stakes on the table? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| We'll get to it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Obviously, he's reading something. | ||
| Yes, exactly. | ||
| And he will say what it's from. | ||
| Eventually, and then we'll talk about it. | ||
| But for now, it's something. | ||
| Okay, you're keeping us in suspense. | ||
| He's reading something. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And it's all about these silent weapons. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| They're obvious to the trained eye, right? | ||
| But you and I, we wouldn't know. | ||
| It makes no obvious explosive noises, causes no obvious physical or mental injuries, and does not obviously interfere with anyone's daily social life. | ||
| Yet it makes an unmistakable noise, causes unmistakable physical and mental damage, and unmistakably interferes with daily social life, in effect unmistakable to a trained observer, one who knows what to look for. | ||
| The public Cannot comprehend this weapon and therefore cannot believe that they are being attacked and subdued by a weapon. | ||
| The public might instinctively feel that something is wrong. | ||
| But because of the technical nature of the silent weapon, they cannot express their feeling in a rational way or handle the problem with intelligence. | ||
| Therefore, they do not know how to cry for help, and do not know how to associate with others to defend themselves against it. | ||
| Dear listeners, when a silent weapon is applied gradually, the public adjusts. | ||
| This is classic conspiracy shit. | ||
| There's this massive thing that explains everything, but it's only apparent to trained eyes, like mine. | ||
| This is just red pill rhetoric before The Matrix ever came out. | ||
| It's an attempt to deal with a very real issue that what you're talking about makes no sense to anyone. | ||
| It only makes sense to trained observers. | ||
| The second part of that clip is also pretty standard conspiracy manipulation, like we've already touched on a minute ago. | ||
| Every conspiracy generally starts from a fairly universal, or at least a feeling. | ||
| Like it's universal truth. | ||
| Le problemalétique. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Many people feel like there's something wrong with the way society is structured. | ||
| There are systematic problems that keep power in the hands of a particular class while the rest of us are left to play games with our bootstraps. | ||
| Everyone recognizes that that's not fair and that there's probably a better way to go about things, but they aren't sure what the cause of the problem is. | ||
| And this is the feeling that a conspiracy theorist can work with. | ||
| By providing an answer to that fundamental question, they're able to pass off anything they want as part of that explanation. | ||
| Everyone feels like something's off, but they can't quite put their finger on it. | ||
| The answer, of course, is a silent weapon system set up by the Bilderberg Group in 1954. | ||
| That sounds right. | ||
| There's a reason that Bill Cooper decided to cover this on this first episode on WWCR, and why it's the subject of the first chapter of his book, Behold a Pale Horse. | ||
| Gotcha! | ||
| Okay. | ||
| He's reading from his own book? | ||
| That's kind of tacky. | ||
| It's the first chapter of his book that's actually a republishing of something else. | ||
| So the mystery is still not entirely solved. | ||
| And the reason he's doing this is because it's something like a thesis statement. | ||
| This is what's at the root of a lot of his conspiracies. | ||
| The explanation for why things aren't the way they should be in society. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's a silent weapon system that's being deployed. | ||
| And you can even hear so many wrinkles and shades of Alex in there. | ||
| At the end when he's saying when it's applied gradually, humans adjust. | ||
| Alex talks about that all the time. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| All the time. | ||
| Talks about meeting with globalists who are like, ah, public will acclimate to our evil. | ||
| Everything is just like, oh, wow. | ||
| All of these ideas are all just repackaged. | ||
| We're talking about this thing that people like Bill and Alex are able to manipulate from the starting point of feeling like something's wrong. | ||
| And what do you know? | ||
| Bill meets a lot of people who feel that way. | ||
| And that, folks, is the reason why when I travel around this country to get my lectures, I meet thousands of people who come up to me and say, Something is wrong. | ||
| Something is terribly wrong. | ||
| I can feel it in my gut, but I don't know what it is. | ||
| And that's why everybody is blaming George Bush. | ||
| Not realizing that Bill Clinton is the same. | ||
| What's this? | ||
| There we are. | ||
| What's this? | ||
| There we are. | ||
| All political parties are the same. | ||
| They're all controlled by the same people. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Cool. | ||
| So, I mean, that's pretty thematic, too. | ||
| And one of the things is, like, on the right wing, everyone imagines that everybody is partisans and GOP fans. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But these large figureheads, particularly in the Patriot militia vein... | ||
| Are certainly not. | ||
| Yeah, it's just government. | ||
| It doesn't matter who's in there. | ||
| It's simply the fact of government. | ||
| And it remains to be seen if they would ever like a president. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, maybe there are presidents in history that they've enjoyed more than others. | ||
| Andrew Jackson? | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| But they, yeah, certainly in our lifetime, all of them have been bad. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And one of the things I find, like, really a tragedy is that, I mean... | ||
| Because Bill Cooper died in 2001, we have no idea what he would have thought of Trump. | ||
| The mind reels. | ||
| I don't think he would have been on board. | ||
| I think he would have been a voice of very strong, like, fuck this. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, anything 20 years ago, 20 years is a long time. | ||
| I just don't know. | ||
| We can't know. | ||
| But I do think that if Trump was elected in 2012, Alex would have stayed against him. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That's what I think. | ||
| You're probably right. | ||
| But I think also, you're right. | ||
| It is very difficult to tell because I think if you would have guessed at another point in time, you would have said Alex never would have done that. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| A lot of people change over years and you're like, oh, your principles don't mean anything. | ||
| And maybe I'm just imagining that Bill's convictions were much stronger than they actually are. | ||
| He sounds like it. | ||
| He feels like it. | ||
| And the fact that he... | ||
| He died because of his refusal to pay taxes. | ||
| That one's tough. | ||
| That one's tough to get around. | ||
| And his insistence on being a real gun dick. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, that is interesting. | |
| I would be interested because I think I'm more interested to know how he would have dealt with the years of W. Sure. | ||
| I'm more interested in that kind of situation. | ||
| Trump is a nightmare. | ||
| Well, I mean, we got a couple months of it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Maybe before he dies. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| We can talk about his approach to W, but we'll see. | ||
| So in this next clip, Bill reveals the source material of what he's talking about. | ||
| A nation, our world of people, who do not use their intelligence, are no better than animals who do not have intelligence. | ||
| Such people are beasts of burden and stakes on the table by choice and consent. | ||
| Do you fit that category, folks? | ||
| I certainly hope not, because I believe we can get ourselves out of this situation if we will just open our eyes, our ears, and wake up. | ||
| Stop believing what you're told and what you read and begin to find the truth for yourself. | ||
| What I have just given you in this past half hour is just a couple of pages out of the first chapter of my book, Behold a Pale Horse. | ||
| In that chapter, I published a document entitled Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, an introductory programming manual, operations research, technical manual, TM-SW7905.1. | ||
| It is one of the documents that was prepared for the subjugation of America. | ||
| By a secret power group who wants to rule the world. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Ah. | |
| Paz Dispenser. | ||
| So, a lot of the beginning of this episode has to do with Bill reading from the first chapter of Behold a Pale Horse, in which he lays out his thesis, largely the foundation for this worldview. | ||
| According to Bill, there's an evil group of elites who are waging a war that's called the Quiet War against the public, mostly, apparently, to control the economy. | ||
| They want a completely predictable economy, and the only way to do that is to remove any instability or chaos from the public. | ||
| The best means to achieve that is to entirely pacify and domesticate everyone to the point where even thinking of straying from the path is unthinkable. | ||
| Everybody's cows. | ||
| As the story goes, in 1954, Quiet War was launched by people like the Rockefellers and the Bilderberg Group, along with elements of the government, in order to achieve this goal. | ||
| This story is largely based on a document that's taken on mythic importance in the anti-government militia world, a document I've heard Alex reference many, many times, even to the present day. | ||
| Like, I heard him reference this document maybe a week ago. | ||
| It's called Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars. | ||
| And Bill Cooper found it on 4chan, right? | ||
| Might as well have. | ||
| Dated May 1979, the document is meant to mark the 25th anniversary of the launch of the Quiet War. | ||
| And to describe how said war is, how it's been going, what strategies it employs, and exactly what techniques have been used in carrying out this war. | ||
| Oh my god, are they a decade behind? | ||
| They might be. | ||
| Tell me they're a decade behind. | ||
| Oh, damn it! | ||
| God, that would have been beautiful. | ||
| Now, right off the bat, just the premise of this should be a gigantic red flag. | ||
| And I love that you just yelled Pez to Spencer because it is very similar to the way that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion makes no sense as an actual document. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| You can argue that this document was meant to be top secret and all that, but in what world does a super evil cabal put together a document that lays out literally all of their evil plans to enslave humanity just to mark the 25th anniversary of this plan being launched? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| That motivation makes no sense if you consider the actors at play. | ||
| It's childish. | ||
| We stole the PowerPoint presentation at the conference where they all agreed that we're going to do this evil plan. | ||
| And we've proved it. | ||
| Step two, murder all the people. | ||
| All right, guys, next slide. | ||
| Oh, shit, that got out. | ||
| Step three, how did it get out? | ||
| Did you leave Apple share on? | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| Put simply, I do not believe that a group that was able to secretly control the world for 25 years would also be a group that decides to celebrate that achievement by writing down in clear writing how they've been secretly controlling the world for 25 years. | ||
| Any group that would do the latter would be by definition incapable of carrying out the prior. | ||
| Just does not make sense. | ||
| So Bill claims that he'd seen this document back in his days working in Navy intelligence. | ||
| In fact, he backs up a lot of his claims with appeals to having seen or being aware of things through his time in that branch of the service. | ||
| It's unclear if Bill was actually in Navy intelligence, but he definitely was a sergeant in the Navy and did serve in Vietnam and saw combat. | ||
| He got two service medals in 1969, but beyond these facts, the rest of the story just comes from Bill himself. | ||
| He's claimed that he was discharged in 1975, but it's really hard to tell what's real and what's embellished. | ||
| Given that it's definitely true that he's not making up his service and that he was in Vietnam, I'm going to err on the side of not questioning his time in uniform and just believe him for the most part. | ||
| Yeah, this is no Stevie Peas in Korea. | ||
| We're letting this one... | ||
| It does not appear that he is just making shit up. | ||
| However, there's a problem with his claim that he saw a copy of Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars while he was in Navy Intelligence, and that is that it did not exist before he was discharged. | ||
| But he thinks it's supposed to happen. | ||
| Because it's 1979 was when it was written. | ||
| He was discharged in 1975. | ||
| I suppose he could say that the actual document is the 25th anniversary edition, and he saw an older version of it. | ||
| He got the first edition. | ||
| It was signed by Rockefeller, worth millions. | ||
| I should tell you. | ||
| There is no older version. | ||
| Of course not. | ||
| In 2003, a man named Hartford Van Dyke made a very credible claim to having written Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars. | ||
| The document had been featured in a magazine called Paranoia, and having read their article, Van Dyke reached out to them by letter. | ||
| It turns out that he'd already revealed himself as the author of the text on a radio show in 1996, but people didn't really take notice. | ||
| And if you look at the surrounding details, it seems very likely that he was the author, especially when you consider the apocryphal story that goes around for how the document came into being. | ||
| In 1986, a publication called America's Promise Newsletter, published in Arizona, which is where Bill Cooper lived, printed silent weapons for the first time. | ||
| It's probably worth pointing out that this newsletter was published by Lord's Covenant Church, whose pastor, Sheldon Emery, was a high-profile follower of the Christian identity movement. | ||
| There we go. | ||
| Weird how they keep popping up all over the place. | ||
| Man, they just keep showing up. | ||
| Yeah, strange. | ||
| They're like herpes. | ||
| In the intro to the document, they say it was, quote, found in an IBM copier that was purchased at a surplus sale. | ||
| I'm sorry, what? | ||
| So this document... | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| So, okay. | ||
| The globalist's entire fucking Rockefeller Bilderberg plan somehow wound its way up in a fucking garage sale? | ||
| Surplus sale. | ||
| I buy it. | ||
| It's important that it's a surplus sale because the implication is that they purchased this copier from the McCord Air Force Base, which is nearby. | ||
| And that the seller had just been too sloppy to remove the worldwide conspiracy demonstrating document that they just copied in the input tray. | ||
| Yeah, I don't believe that the globalists will leave that. | ||
| Like somebody removing their wallpaper and finding a hole with Nazi treasures inside of it. | ||
| It's like, that's not how it works, man. | ||
| That's what you want. | ||
| That's the story that they want to trigger in your brain. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| But like, it's nonsense. | ||
| It's an absurd story, but one that's very similar to other origin stories for bullshit documents. | ||
| So many of these things have completely nonsense origin myths, like how so many of Larry Nichols' official documents are just things he found in his mailbox after giving out his address on Alex Jones' show a bunch. | ||
| Yeah, Larry Nichols is a ridiculous figure. | ||
| He's just silly. | ||
| Right, but I mean the same thing as the background story for the... | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| Ostensibly for Silent Weapons. | ||
| That story is likely not true, but the story that Hartford Van Dyke tells is a bit more plausible. | ||
| And that is that he was a real sovereign citizen type weirdo back in the 70s who was preoccupied with the idea that Roosevelt had foreknowledge of the attack on Pearl Harbor and allowed it to happen to get the U.S. into World War II. | ||
| This weirdly came up on our last episode from the present day of Alex Jones where he was saying that Pearl Harbor was a false flag. | ||
| I swear to God, you're a demon. | ||
| We've already touched on this a little bit, but the narrative was popularized in 1944 when a book came out called The Truth About Pearl Harbor by John Flynn, which definitely had a big impact on Van Dyke. | ||
| To refresh your memory, Flynn was a major player in the group called the America First Committee, which I'm pissed off because I listened back to our last episode and I kept saying America First Commission. | ||
| Ah, no! | ||
| America First Committee. | ||
| They were a group who masked their anti-Semitism and support for fascism by calling it anti-interventionism. | ||
| It would probably be unfair to say that the organization was pro-Hitler, but they definitely were pretty vocal about how they weren't anti-Hitler enough to think that good people around the world had an obligation to fight him. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The America First Committee had dissolved when the U.S. entered World War II, but the people involved in the organization didn't just give up on their goals, and one of them was to paint U.S. involvement in the war as being a part of the conspiracy, this large conspiracy. | ||
| You scratch the surface about most conspiracy theories, and out-and-out fascists seem to keep popping up. | ||
| It's kind of weird. | ||
| So this guy Van Dyke, according to his telling of it, lived in Hawaii, where his father's uncle had direct involvement in the events of Pearl Harbor. | ||
| He told him about how Roosevelt had three dissenting military officials held at gunpoint until the attack had happened to prevent their ability to sound the alarm. | ||
| That doesn't sound right. | ||
| Van Dyke wrote a book called The Skeleton in Uncle Sam's Closet about these and other Pearl Harbor revelations, presumably self-published back in 1973. | ||
| Around this time, Van Dyke got his hands on a little book called A Report from Iron Mountain on the Possibility and Desirability of Peace, which conspiracy theorists believe is an official secret government report about how it wouldn't be good for the country to enter a period of long-lasting peace. | ||
| The document itself, the Iron Mountain document, was released in 1967, and in 1972, a man named Leonard Lewin came out and revealed that he had written that report, and it was meant as a work of political satire about how absurd think tanks are. | ||
| Simply put, it was a hoax. | ||
| And one that suddenly probably became 100% real from some dumb think tank. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| I don't know about that, but it became real to militia. | ||
| Oh, for sure. | ||
| But I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if like 20 years later, a think tank came out with the exact idea. | ||
| In 1990, the Liberty Lobby, the organization founded by outright neo-Nazi and Holocaust denier Willis Carto, began selling copies of that book, the Iron Mountain Report. | ||
| This prompted Lewin to sue the Liberty Lobby for infringing his intellectual property rights, a suit that he would have won, that Liberty Lobby wanted to settle out of court and agreed to pay Lewin and stop selling his book. | ||
| They likely settled because Lewin definitely had proof that he had in fact written this report. | ||
| It's considered one of the most successful literary hoaxes of all time, and no serious person who has looked into it believes that it's real in any way. | ||
| So anyway, Van Dyke read about half of this fake report from Iron Mountain and started to put some pieces together, which ultimately leads to the inspiration behind Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars. | ||
| A very large part of his primary list of sources for Silent Weapons is references to the report from Iron Mountain, a literary hoax. | ||
| Gotcha. | ||
| In many ways, Silent Weapons is itself a hoax. | ||
| It presents itself as an official internal document being used by people within a secret government program to familiarize new initiates into their program, but it's clearly not. | ||
| To the extent that people believe that it's a real document, they're falling for a hoax. | ||
| Although, there's a very important distinction between this hoax and that of Iron Mountain, and that's a difference of intent. | ||
| Lewin wrote Iron Mountain as a piece of satire to make people consider how absurd the arms race is and how we should consider the ways we could, as a society, transition to stable peacetime economies. | ||
| It's a lampooning meant to make the reader think. | ||
| Conversely, Van Dyke wrote this hoax to try and trick people into thinking that there was actually a secret government program that had been in place since 1954 to enslave the population. | ||
| To the author, it wasn't satire. | ||
| It was an expression of something totally real, and his intent was to persuade the reader to adopt his view of things. | ||
| It's very different. | ||
| So his motivation in writing that specific piece was to pass it off as a real document, right? | ||
| Okay, so then that's strange to me. | ||
| I guess what he's not... | ||
| Because I feel like if you're piecing it together from other bullshit... | ||
| What do you mean? | ||
| Like if you're Van Dyke? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| If you're piecing together your, like, this is what the enemy's plan is and has always been. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And then passing it off as an official document from them, then you have to know you're lying, at least, right? | ||
| Well, you would probably say I am... | ||
| Lying in presentation, but what I'm saying is true to an extent that it doesn't matter. | ||
| Right. | ||
| No one will take it seriously if I don't present it this way, but what I'm saying is true, so I present it this way in order to make a splash. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| But it's a fundamental deceit. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Even from his part, in order to achieve the outcome that he desires, which is... | ||
| Yeah, I think that's the way you could put it. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. | ||
| But it's ridiculous. | ||
| If you read it, it's just like... | ||
| Who would fucking believe this? | ||
| Like one dead giveaway for anyone reading Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, something that really should tip them off that they're reading a conspiracy theory rant as opposed to a secret government product, is a section called, quote, Theoretical Introduction. | ||
| This section begins with a most likely fabricated quote from Mayor Amschel Rothschild. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| The way this document obsesses over Rockefeller philanthropy and the Rothschild family is a gigantic red flag that speaks to its provenance. | ||
| A red flag that all these dumb-dumb conspiracy theorists just seem to ignore. | ||
| They're like, yeah, absolutely. | ||
| Secret government programs would really talk about the Rothschilds a lot. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| Why wouldn't they? | ||
| Another problem they overlook is how this supposedly real document ends like this. | ||
| Quote, it's left to those few who are truly willing to think and survive as the fittest to survive, to solve the problem for themselves as the few who really care. | ||
| Otherwise, exposure of the silent weapon would destroy our only hope of preserving the seed of the future true humanity. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This secret government document ends with an ellipsis! | |
| Either that or the guy who's in charge of writing secret government documents has a novel hidden away somewhere that he's afraid to publish. | ||
| He's an English major who got into the wrong... | ||
| Or it's a cartoon and he died while finishing the... | ||
| Yeah, but the ellipsis is in blood. | ||
| Yeah, okay. | ||
| The secret government document has the ellipsis? | ||
| That's ridiculous. | ||
| It's just unbelievable that anyone would read this and be like, yeah, that's legit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It just screams fake. | ||
| Even if I had no idea that Van Dyke had made a pretty solid public case that he'd written it. | ||
| So the main premise of Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars is that the elites want a completely predictable economy, and so they've used silent weapons to train the population into conforming to make them predictable. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| These weapons are things like paper currency, social welfare programs, advertising, public education. | ||
| They're the inputs that the government creates which then produce their desired outputs, like the government controlling everything and everybody being predictable. | ||
| It begins as just being about the economy, this document. | ||
| But before it's over, there's so many suggestions about technology and teaching revisionist history that the reader comes away thinking that these alleged silent weapons could be just about anything. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| And this is why Alex will sometimes use this document as a reference when talking about things like soft kill vaccines and 5G. | ||
| These are also silent weapons. | ||
| The unfocused nature of what's being discussed allow this document to be used however the user wants it to be, which is another super awesome feature of conspiracy theorists. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| It's a bit rangy, and it doesn't really make sense as presented, but that doesn't matter. | ||
| It caught fire in the Patriot militia anti-government circles because it confirmed what they already believed to be true, namely that the government had been carrying out a specific quiet war against the population for decades with the goal of enslavement, which can only be fought. | ||
| By fighting the government itself. | ||
| The America's Promise newsletter published Silent Weapons in November 1986. | ||
| And then Bill Cooper put it in his book, Behold a Pale Horse, published in 1991. | ||
| And from that point on, it was conspiracy canon. | ||
| And it definitely proved the existence of these secret evil government programs involving Rockefeller philanthropy and the dreaded Rothschilds. | ||
| But none of it's real. | ||
| It's just a work of a sovereign citizen who is tricked by a well-written piece of political satire. | ||
| When you get down to the bottom of these sources of information for the larger umbrella of the worldviews that are put out by people like Bill and Alex, you see like, oh, there's nothing here. | ||
| Yeah, it's like if the onion was the reason we had Q. Yeah, which might be actually true. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I always think of this just really... | ||
| Gets to me whenever you have a guy like Bill Cooper starting your show with like a... | ||
| It's all about if you know what to look for. | ||
| And I'm the guy. | ||
| And it's like, no, what you mean there is if you start with what you want to find and then start looking for that. | ||
| You've trained your brain in a particular way to see certain things. | ||
| And now everything is filtered through that lens. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And this is why I was saying when he's saying you shouldn't trust anything unless you research it for yourself. | ||
| I don't think you practice what you preach. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because this is the first chapter of your book. | ||
| Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars. | ||
| In 1993, sure, Hartford Van Dyke hadn't come out and said on that radio show in 96 that he had created this document. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And whatever. | ||
| But even so, if you read that, The Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, you definitely need much more concrete. | ||
| Proof that this is real. | ||
| And I'd find it hard to believe that over that time span, nobody with a critical eye had looked into it. | ||
| No, true. | ||
| And the other thing is that Bill claims that when he was in naval intelligence, he saw this document that couldn't have existed while he was in the Navy. | ||
| So that part, to me, implies you're making that up. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Which undercuts a lot of the authenticity that I... | ||
| Feel he embodied. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Because there's also things like that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What was that? | ||
| Was that whole cloth made up? | ||
| My feel on that, my read on that is, no matter what you want to say, it requires a significant amount of ego for you and I to do this show. | ||
| Just the idea of doing a show at all. | ||
| Requires ego. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But whenever you are the font of all knowledge, that requires a significantly larger amount of ego. | ||
| Yeah, there's a grandiosity to it. | ||
| And when you're that grandiose, it is impossible not to self-mythologize. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I wouldn't doubt that he believes that he saw it, but that was like a retroactive addition to, you know, like when they do a true crime documentary and the neighbor is like... | ||
| I remembered seeing all these weird things before it happened. | ||
| And you're like, you're making that shit up. | ||
| You're revising your own history. | ||
| Yeah, that's probably a good point. | ||
| And with these folks, too, I know I experience it with Alex a lot. | ||
| That's like, you've told this story so many times that you perceive it to be true. | ||
| Yeah, for sure. | ||
| So there's two more important points that I need to bring up about this document, Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, and the author, Hartford Van Dyke, that I think are really crucial to consider. | ||
| The first is that Report from Iron Mountain wasn't the only thing that inspired Van Dyke to write Silent Weapons. | ||
| From his letters to the editor of Paranoia Magazine, quote, In late October 1972, I met a man who gave me a copy of None Dare Call It Conspiracy by Gary Allen. | ||
| God damn it! | ||
| The book inspired me to write my own book. | ||
| The book that he's referring to there is that book that he wrote about Pearl Harbor. | ||
| None Dare Call It Conspiracy inspired Van Dyke to write his first absurd conspiracy book, and then, quote, During the last phases of that book's production, I began reading a book called Report from Iron Mountain. | ||
| According to his letters, he only got halfway through Report from Iron Mountain, but then later, he was reading a college algebra textbook, for whatever reason, and decided that the equations were similar to something he read in Part of Iron Mountain. | ||
| It's a completely nonsensical path for him to have taken, but that's what leads him to write Silent Weapons. | ||
| He read part of Iron Mountain, then saw an algebra equation and decided he'd crack the case on a secret government operation. | ||
| The reason I think this is important is because, once again, we find none dare call it conspiracy being the spark that sets off an explosion. | ||
| While I'm sure Van Dyke was not the world's most critical thinker prior to October 1972, by his own telling of things, he read that book and it inspired him to create his own anti-government propaganda. | ||
| This is exactly the path Alex tells of his own life. | ||
| Reading Nundare when he was like 12 opened his mind to the world of secret government shit and set him down the road that he continues down to this day. | ||
| Nundare Call It Conspiracy is a super dangerous book, but not because it reveals the truth behind the globalist secret plots. | ||
| It's dangerous because of its rhetorical style. | ||
| The way it's written is almost hypnotic. | ||
| It relies on oversimplifications and excessive uses of repeated phrases that almost become a chorus within the text to the point where it clearly has the potential to negatively affect people who read it if they're a little bit suggestible or if they're not prepared to deal with what they're reading critically. | ||
| While obviously not solely responsible for this phenomenon, I feel like in my experience, someone reading Nundere and believing it is an act that prepares them to uncritically receive other anti-government information as fact. | ||
| It primes the pump. | ||
| Alex believes all kinds of completely fabricated things are true because they conform to the narratives that he's internalized. | ||
| Van Dyke believed the Iron Mountain document is true because it conformed to the worldview he'd been initiated into. | ||
| Even Richard Belzer is an example of this in our experience. | ||
| I'm starting to feel like Nundere Call It A Conspiracy is almost like the Velvet Underground. | ||
| Not a ton of people have read it, but everybody who read it wrote their own crazy conspiracy theory book. | ||
| So far, I mean, Alex has written a book, Belzer's written a book, Van Dyke's written a book. | ||
| Yeah, it's one of those things that I never expected when we set out to do this show that it would pop up in such weird places. | ||
| And be so influential. | ||
| And when I started to look into The Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, I was like, ah, this guy, this story is wild. | ||
| This is just some guy who had some stupid ideas wrote this. | ||
| It's not a government document. | ||
| This is based on nothing. | ||
| And I never expected his interview would be like, I read None Dare Call It Conspiracy. | ||
| But the more I think about it and the more I experienced even the reading of that text, it's excessive. | ||
| The way there are catchphrases and appeals to very oversimplified logic that just drive home points in your head to the point where if you're reading it, it does get to be like... | ||
| The chorus of the catchphrases are the things that Gary Allen wants you to internalize, and you do if you're not paying attention. | ||
| He wrote a book in almost call and response. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That kind of situation. | ||
| But the call and the response are both in the text. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| The call is in the text, and so is the response. | ||
| As you're reading it, you start to give the response. | ||
| You give the response as well. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| It trains you. | ||
| It's like Calloway. | ||
| Yeah, when you start... | ||
| And everybody gets real comfortable with that. | ||
| And then it's... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But there's a... | ||
| I mean, a lot of persuasive writing is sort of in that vein to a point. | ||
| But Nundare is far past the... | ||
| I don't want to put it too extremely, but I would be comfortable saying it's almost called brainwashing induction kind of stuff. | ||
| And the more I think about it and the more it pops up, the more I realize I think we've just got to do... | ||
| An episode on. | ||
| No matter how long it ends up being. | ||
| Because I think one of the things that's held us back from doing it is like, it might be six hours long. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think we just got to do it because I think it's probably important to address some of this stuff. | ||
| But we may get to that eventually. | ||
| Anyway, the point is that this guy, the first point is the guy who's inspired heavily by none dare call it conspiracy. | ||
| The second point I want to make is about why Hartford Van Dyke was writing letters to Paranoia about his authorship of Silent Weapons. | ||
| Well, he's paranoid. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| It's because at that point, in 2003, the only way he could communicate with anyone was by letters, because he was in prison. | ||
| I thought it was going to be in a forest. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I was going the wrong direction. | |
| Van Dyke was at that time serving an eight-year sentence for fraud. | ||
| He and a co-conspirator had tried to pass off over $3 million in fake currency. | ||
| Van Dyke also didn't pay his taxes for years, and when he tried to deal with it by sending the IRS $600,000 of his fake currency, things kind of escalated. | ||
| That'll color the defense team, I think. | ||
| According to an article in the Associated Press, Van Dyke, quote, claimed to have placed $33 million in liens against the judge's property. | ||
| Which is... | ||
| Unfortunately, a common sovereign citizen maneuver. | ||
| I'm never not going to like the balls on these people. | ||
| Yeah, it's something they do a lot. | ||
| They like to place fraudulent liens on things as a weapon. | ||
| So Hartford Van Dyke is a person with a well-documented history of very dumb beliefs, as well as fraudulent behaviors. | ||
| He's exactly the sort of person whose MO matches up with someone who would write a document like Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, and because what he wrote closely matches up with what people like Alex and Bill Cooper feel is how the evil globalists work, they've accepted it as gospel, as an actual government document. | ||
| This case study example is a damning indictment of these people's ability to deal with sources. | ||
| Instead of accepting that they've been fooled by a hoax, what they do is what so many people on their side of things do. | ||
| They insist that every piece of information that proves that they're wrong is actually part of the conspiracy itself. | ||
| Yeah, I remember whenever I still was young and idealistic, and I would get into these long email exchanges with my dad about how stupid some of his conservative beliefs were. | ||
| And I remember this one exchange in particular was me just sending him all of these articles and looking at how many words were hyperlinked. | ||
| And then he would send me the response to it and there were no words hyperlinked and there were no sources. | ||
| And I'm like, you realize the difference there. | ||
| And he's like, I don't believe your sources. | ||
| And I was like, well, fucking fine. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| Then we can't agree on a baseline. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Then we're done. | ||
| And the other thing that you hear a lot is like, yeah, okay, sure, Hartford Van Dyke wrote that, but everything in it is true. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He was channeling the truth on that, man. | |
| The larger point absolutely isn't true, that it's a government document made by this secret program. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And you guys all say that it is. | ||
| The reason it has credibility to you is for something that's not true. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So if you guys, right? | ||
| You guys, you conspiracy theorists. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| If you led with... | ||
| A weirdo wrote this. | ||
| I don't think people would... | ||
| It wouldn't carry the same weight. | ||
| I don't think as many people would be convinced. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And that's why you don't do that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And also, there's a lot of Nazis and fascists lurking around in the background of all this stuff that is weird. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't know why. | ||
| I don't know why there's all these Christian identity people poking their head up. | ||
| Publishing this newsletter. | ||
| I don't know why this guy is inspired by Gary Allen, who worked for the George Wallace campaign. | ||
| I don't know why it just seems like all of these conspiracy theory trails seem to lead back to people who are either Nazis, segregationists, or both. | ||
| You know, something that I've been wrestling with is, especially with all this conspiracy theory stuff, is not that these guys don't want a one-world government. | ||
| It is that... | ||
| They would rather a one-world government run by one guy than by 20 guys. | ||
| Like, it's almost individualistic, like, I want a supreme leader who can cut through all this bullshit thing. | ||
| I'm sick of all these globalists discussing things. | ||
| They certainly don't like discussion. | ||
| I will agree with you on that. | ||
| It does seem like every one of these conspiracy theory movements really focuses on the number of people. | ||
| It's everywhere. | ||
| The building, all that stuff. | ||
| I think some of it comes down to, and this would be oversimplifying it, so please don't take this as me saying this explains everything. | ||
| But I think there is a strain of it that is like, well, you know how the European Union works. | ||
| You know, there's all these countries, and there's free travel between them. | ||
| You can just go wherever you want to go with your EU passport. | ||
| So if there's a one-world government, everybody can go everywhere. | ||
| Yeah, ooh, that's a good point. | ||
| And that would be, like, really bad for these people who don't like minorities. | ||
| Who hate immigrants, yeah. | ||
| Non-white people being around. | ||
| That is a really good point. | ||
| I know that that's not everything. | ||
| That's not the whole story. | ||
| But it would be ludicrous for us not to accept that that is some part of it. | ||
| Now, I don't think that that's Bill Cooper. | ||
| Because from a lot of the stuff that I've listened to him, he seems pretty emphatically non-racist. | ||
| I don't know if it's fair to say that he doesn't hold racist beliefs, but he is pretty vocally against racism. | ||
| So I don't know. | ||
| He doesn't strike me as somebody who's one of those white nationalist-y types. | ||
| But I do think that there is a large contingent within the people who are afraid of a one-world government that once that is in place, It's not so much that there's nowhere I can go to escape the world government. | ||
| It's that everyone else can come to me. | ||
| That's fascinating. | ||
| I don't think I ever took it that far as to what their fears of a one-world government would be. | ||
| Why do you think they obsess about immigration and demographic numbers and shit? | ||
| I just don't get how they don't also include geography as an impediment to this whole, oh, we get rid of borders, so that means everybody's going to come here because it's the best. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Nah. | |
| Anyway, Bill has spoken his piece about this silent weapons for quiet wars, and so have I. It's nonsense. | ||
| And his first episode, the first chapter of Behold the Pale Horse, largely a thesis statement that's meant to prove that this conspiracy exists is bullshit. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So congratulations. | ||
| So we're off to a good start. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Coming out the gate hot. | ||
| Yes, but if you don't believe in a lot of the stuff that Bill does, you're probably a sheeple. | ||
| You're probably a sheep. | ||
| That does sound right. | ||
| And Bill has a quiz for you to figure out if you're a sheeple. | ||
| Yes, please. | ||
| Well, if I know people, there's a lot of you sitting out there shaking your head saying, that doesn't apply to me. | ||
| I'm not one of those sheeple. | ||
| Well, let's find out. | ||
| Folks, and don't shoot the messenger because you can never solve a problem unless you can stare it in the face and recognize it for what it is. | ||
| And in this case, it's us. | ||
| Let me just ask you a few questions to find out if you are really sheeple or not. | ||
| The first question is, do you believe in and support the purpose and The article itself, the second article in amendment to the Constitution of the United States of America, the right of the people to keep and bear arms. | ||
| If you do, you would resist, always, any efforts to force Americans to register their guns, wouldn't you? | ||
| No. | ||
| Well, I wouldn't have and will, and never will I register my weapons. | ||
| So, that seems to be the only question in this quiz. | ||
| Are you into the Second Amendment? | ||
| That's the only question in this quiz? | ||
| He might have had other subtler questions, but I didn't catch them. | ||
| It seems like it's just, if you believe in the Second Amendment, you're not a sheep. | ||
| So, I mean, he is a pretty big gun absolutist in the same way that Alex is. | ||
| So, you have another thing there. | ||
| And the way he discusses some of these gun beliefs are also very reminiscent of ways that Alex experiences gun issues. | ||
| That seem out of lockstep with what you see as the right, you see as the GOP line. | ||
| Well, let me ask you, if that's true, if you believe that, and if you would never register your guns or support any move to register our weapons, do you belong to the NRA? | ||
| And if you do, why? | ||
| Because let me tell you something right now, folks. | ||
| If you belong to the NRA, you have already registered your guns. | ||
| How does that grab you? | ||
| Bill Cooper, much like Alex Jones, is anti-NRA. | ||
| Alex has gotten more into the NRA in very recent days, but until fairly recently and in his early career, he was very anti-NRA. | ||
| He was very into people like Aaron Zelman's organization, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, and Larry Pratt's Gun Owners for America, Gun Owners of America. | ||
| He was very much against the NRA. | ||
| He felt like they were a gun control organization as opposed to being... | ||
| And that is not something that's very consistent in the right wing, except for... | ||
| This right wing. | ||
| So is Bill Cooper's main point here that if you are a member of the NRA, you are revealing to the government that you have guns, thus you are basically registering your guns? | ||
| That's one big part of it, yes. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| That is where these lists will be already compiled for the government. | ||
| And the other part of it is an argument that he has about the NRA misleading what gun ownership is for, which he gets into in this next clip. | ||
| Yet they're still sending out those notices to try to recruit new members. | ||
| And if you notice, boy, they're really trying to get every gun owner in the country to register their guns by joining the NRA. | ||
| They're even offering prizes to the members who bring in... | ||
| The most new members. | ||
| Like the KKK. | ||
| The literature says, join the NRA and protect your right to hunt. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know, it's going to be easy to get rid of the guns, folks. | |
| If they can convince the legislatures to pass laws protecting animals, then gun ownership is connected with the killing of those animals. | ||
| I wish somebody out there, besides the very few of us who are doing the thinking, would begin to think along with us. | ||
| So, that is very similar, too, to Alex's conception. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, mischaracterizing gun ownership as being about hunting... | ||
| Can lead to a way to take away guns. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| Our enemy is playing four-dimensional chess wherein they're supporting us with their controlled opposition in the NRA who gets everybody to register their guns and tie it to hunting. | ||
| And then the legislature that is under their control also is going to say you can't hunt anymore, thus removing the needs for guns. | ||
| Instead of attacking guns, they attack hunting. | ||
| Yeah, because how you kill these animals, it's so cruel. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| It's like a trick play in football. | ||
| And that also largely explains why there is such opposition to things like licenses for hunting and game restrictions and seasonal poaching rules and shit. | ||
| Because that's all just an attack on guns by virtue of the characterization as guns being about hunting. | ||
| It's all very weird. | ||
| It's fun how sovereign citizens think by imagining an enemy that is so incredibly devious and intelligent, they themselves are devious intelligent, while at the same time not realizing that their enemy's devious intelligence manifests itself in really stupid plans that don't make any sense and wouldn't work. | ||
| And I don't think that outside of some pretty far-out circles, people have a problem with hunting within... | ||
| You obviously don't want to kill a population of animals, like deer or something. | ||
| But there is a part of nature that you can be a part of. | ||
| Some people are at least capable of saying, okay, if we hunt all the deer away... | ||
| I won't be able to hunt next year. | ||
| And there will be ramifications for the larger ecosystem. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| And then I won't be able to hunt that. | ||
| And I won't be able to do that. | ||
| They can understand that naked self-interest and how regulation is good. | ||
| Yeah, I think a lot of people... | ||
| I think generally people are in that boat. | ||
| I'm not sure that I know of too many prominent voices that are like, no one should hunt anything. | ||
| I might be wrong, but I don't think I hear that argument too much. | ||
| The bigger point is that Bill has this gun position that is very similar to Alex's early gun position. | ||
| So there's just... | ||
| It's everything. | ||
| Almost everything is like, oh, this is Alex. | ||
| And obviously Alex could hear Bill Cooper. | ||
| Of course he was. | ||
| I mean, when he had Bill Cooper on his show, he said as much. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| So, yeah. | ||
| In this next clip, we find out... | ||
| That Bill has a little bit of an organization that he runs, and it might explain why he has some bad information coming in. | ||
| Folks, if you'd like an information packet and what we're all about, what we have to offer, some of the available material that we have, if you'd like information about CAGI, the Citizens Agency Joint Intelligence, which is an organization that I started years ago, and it is at this moment the largest. | ||
| Civilian intelligence gathering organization in the world, and it's also the most successful. | ||
| And a lot of the information that you're going to hear on this program comes from the efforts of hundreds, sometimes thousands, of unsung heroes who prefer to remain in the background, who are constantly gathering and sending information to our central clearinghouse where we are in the process. | ||
| of assembling two puzzles. | ||
| One is the deception, what they want us to believe, and the other is the truth. | ||
| So, Bill has the Citizens Agency of Joint Intelligence, which is just his fucking listeners and weirdos sending him information. | ||
| That's not a good clearinghouse. | ||
| That's not a good system. | ||
| No, I would first give people a taste for about one cent and then go from there, but... | ||
| This is only a good system if you have intensely rigorous standards in place for scrutinizing that information. | ||
| You need to have a default position of everything that comes in is bullshit, or else what you're doing is just saying like, hey, sometimes strangers send me things and I believe them. | ||
| Yeah, which he literally said his whole thing is, I have a default position of everything is bullshit. | ||
| But based on that, I don't believe that. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| I don't believe it. | ||
| He believes silent weapons for quiet wars is real. | ||
| So I don't believe that you could handle a clearinghouse of information that has tons of people sending you shit. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| So you've got to seek the truth, though. | ||
| That's the message. | ||
| Or have people send the truth to you by mail. | ||
| That's seeking it. | ||
| Seek you the truth, and the truth shall set you free, folks. | ||
| And nothing, nothing else in this world will do it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Nothing. | |
| And to find the truth, you cannot believe what anyone else tells you, not even me, not even your mother, not the President of the United States, not Rush Limbaugh especially, not anybody, not your best friend, where we're all manipulated, we're all misled. | ||
| I'll say. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Now I'm starting to think this guy's hurt. | ||
| There is something hurt. | ||
| We're all misled is a really fun thing to say. | ||
| About your best friend? | ||
| Well, no. | ||
| I mean, we're all misled at the end of this episode about a document that he was misled about. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, it's one thing to say we're all misled and none of us are perfect and that. | ||
| That's all good and well. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| It's another thing to say that sort of, like, glibly and just be like, as a toss-off on an episode that you were misled about. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Like, would you? | ||
| If you're Bill Cooper, would you make Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars the first chapter of Behold a Pale Horse, use it as the source material for the first episode of the hour of the time, and then a month later, let's say, be like, guys, I was misled about that. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| No, you would never do that. | ||
| Ever. | ||
| Because this underpins too many, it's a keystone of the building of anti-government paranoia that you're building. | ||
| You can't afford to question this. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| So no, I don't believe the premise at all that you've got to seek the truth. | ||
| I don't believe it. | ||
| Yeah, it is always interesting whenever so much of what he says is based on stuff that, again, we're all aware that something is wrong. | ||
| And I get where he's coming from and I get what he's trying to do, but unfortunately his entire theory is built on... | ||
| Something that's factually inaccurate. | ||
| And so no matter what, from there on out, it's color, you know, it's like if Paul was a Satanist. | ||
| It's building a house on sand. | ||
| You are the rock of my church, the devil. | ||
| You know, like. | ||
| Yeah, it's, yeah, you have your presumably honest work and digging. | ||
| That's based on a hoax that was inspired by a hoax. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So what do you do? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You got nothing. | ||
| If you pointed your quote-unquote rigorous mind beginning from a place of reality or truth, maybe we wouldn't get there. | ||
| Maybe he'd be a weirdo militia that believed reality. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know if that's possible. | ||
| That's a good point. | ||
| So, Bill in this next clip expresses that it's an interesting approach towards broadcast that I think Alex probably also believes. | ||
| So if you want to hear what you cannot and will not hear anywhere else, I don't care who it is or what they profess their politics are, how loyal they are to the Constitution, you will not hear anywhere else what you're going to hear on this show. | ||
| And you need to hear it. | ||
| Just like you needed to hear what you heard tonight. | ||
| And if it made you angry, then I have accomplished one of my goals. | ||
| Because you can't stir people to act. | ||
| I think that Alex has a very similar approach. | ||
| First of all, you're not going to hear any of the stuff that I talk about anywhere else. | ||
| Certainly, that's in line. | ||
| Then the other, I want to inspire strong emotions in you. | ||
| Alex talks about that all the time, about how he's, you know, I got a gravelly voice, I'm abrasive because I'm trying to wake you up. | ||
| I'm trying to evoke an emotion in you. | ||
| And I disrespect that to an extent. | ||
| I mean, I think, I don't know if it's always wrong, but when it's based on lies, I think it's very wrong. | ||
| Because you're trying to short circuit. | ||
| You're trying to take a shortcut in people's brains. | ||
| To get them to override their critical thinking skills while all you're doing is talking about how important critical thinking is. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, they're cheating the game. | ||
| But it is true that you cannot inspire people to mass action without an emotional element. | ||
| The Women's March doesn't have as many people as it does if there isn't a strong emotional connection to what's going on. | ||
| Because it's real... | ||
| That strong emotional connection isn't there overriding the critical thinking. | ||
| It's there as a compliment. | ||
| Or even a result of it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I just think that the strategy leading with that being the strategy of evoking an emotional response is probably not good. | ||
| It's probably a dishonest strategy at its core. | ||
| Yeah, if you want good things to happen, it has to begin with critical thinking that leads to an emotional response. | ||
| Ideally. | ||
| By looking at certain policies that are like, you know, there's no immigration at the very beginning. | ||
| You know, Iran, none of these people can come in. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And there's no critical thinking there. | ||
| It's just like emotion. | ||
| I don't... | ||
| Feel like these people are good, so they have to go out. | ||
| Whereas people's reaction to that is, no, what you're really doing is trying to exclude an entire religion from this country. | ||
| And that gives me a strong emotional reaction. | ||
| Not the emotional reaction being, ah, bad! | ||
| But if you listen to Hour of the Time, and you have a strong emotional reaction, and it's positive, then that's great. | ||
| Because you're just going to dig deeper in and find the truth. | ||
| And if you have a negative, if you get angry, That's good too. | ||
| If you're angry at what you've heard, you will do anything to try to prove that what you hear on here is wrong. | ||
| And some of it you will, because some of it will be wrong, because we are only human beings. | ||
| But most of it will always be right on the money. | ||
| And when it is, it will turn you around, and you will begin to realize that you are beginning to think for yourself. | ||
| And that's a revelation. | ||
| I'm right 99% of the time. | ||
| I heard exactly that. | ||
| I heard it. | ||
| You know, sometimes I'm wrong, but even then, later on, it turns out I'm right. | ||
| And also, Bill excludes one possibility, and it might be a very rare response to his show, which is delight and the desire to learn more about the things he's talking about with a skeptical eye that is not angry nor delighted, not overjoyed. | ||
| It's a very rare response, but it's the one I have. | ||
| It's probably not good for his bottom line, although I'm not sure he's concerned about that in 2019. | ||
| I doubt it. | ||
| I doubt it. | ||
| I wonder how his estate's doing. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It probably was bankrupt when he died because of all the money he owed the government. | ||
| Even if it wasn't bankrupt, the moment the government was like, oh shit, you owe us a lot of money, it was then bankrupt. | ||
| So he's winding down here and giving this dismount that is like the... | ||
| You know, we're going to stir up strong emotions, and if you hate me, you're going to dig into this, and most of the time, you're going to find I'm right. | ||
| Sometimes I'm wrong. | ||
| Maybe about gigantic things. | ||
| Well, I mean, a big thing. | ||
| We're all human. | ||
| Yeah, he likes to imagine that the things he's wrong about is a date, or... | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| But it's, no, this document is fake. | ||
| That's the thing you're wrong about. | ||
| Oh, I'm sorry I said JFK died on the 24th. | ||
| Fuck you. | ||
| It's not superficial details you're wrong about. | ||
| It's the whole thing. | ||
| It's not like, I'm sorry, it was Lee Harvey Oswald by himself. | ||
| I apologize. | ||
| I thought it was the Russians or whatever. | ||
| None of this is to say that the government's on the up and up and everything they do is good. | ||
| It's to say that this conspiracy... | ||
| That undergirds so much of the militia, paranoia, the one-world government fears is based on a hoax. | ||
| It's bogus. | ||
| There's not really strong evidence of any of this. | ||
| So as the dismount goes on, Bill announces that every Wednesday is going to be a special show on his broadcast. | ||
| Wacky Wednesdays? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Every Wednesday night, we're going to devote to that. | ||
| that criminal organization known as the Internal Revenue Service and the Federal Reserve, which is really the parent organization. | ||
| You see the Internal Revenue Service is just the collection agency for the Federal Reserve. | ||
| Anyway, you're going to learn about it all. | ||
| That's something that's not true, but it's something that Alex Jones believes. | ||
| He talks about it all the time. | ||
| The IRS is just the collection arm of the Fed. | ||
| Yeah, I can see the seeds of his own destruction sown in the success. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, I mean, there's just constant, constant, like, sort of, like, beliefs that are like, that's not real. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That Alex has that you can just trace back almost directly to things that Bill Cooper preaches. | ||
| So, this is the last clip, and I think it also is another thing that Alex has in his repertoire. | ||
| That Bill probably has a little bit more, but also I believe that's because Bill was a little bit less of a coward, and he was not trying to make it big. | ||
| Is there a conspiracy? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Are we being manipulated and controlled and guided into a new world order and a new world religion? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Is there a group in charge of this who's been in charge all along who are bringing this about? | ||
| Yes, and I can tell you folks, they're as old as man. | ||
| They are the followers of an ancient religion that is perceived. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| Please don't say it. | ||
| So, Bill... | ||
| No. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| Sorry. | ||
| It's esoteric mystery religion. | ||
| Okay, okay. | ||
| Sorry. | ||
| It always comes back to juice, man. | ||
| It always comes back. | ||
| And far be it for me to say that he's not somebody who also uses anti-Semitic tropes to characterize his villain. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I've not listened to enough of him to have a larger sense of that, and nothing has stuck out to me as overt as a lot of Alex's stuff. | ||
| But the episodes that I have heard where he talks about this, it's straight up like Babylonian mystical cult. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| But the point that I'm trying to make with this is that Alex clearly believes that as well. | ||
| And in present day, he talks about how everyone's demon-possessed and it's all this, the devil is an operating system that's lived on forever and all of the history has had all these... | ||
| It's very similar in a lot of ways. | ||
| But Alex, when he was starting up, and even into fairly recent times, has all been like, nah, that's all mumbo-jumbo bullshit, because he wanted to differentiate himself. | ||
| Bill does talk about UFOs. | ||
| Bill does talk about this esoteric mystery religion stuff that's at the core of all this. | ||
| And Alex clearly believed that too, but didn't want to admit it because he didn't want to be treated like that. | ||
| He didn't want to be put in a box that was like, oh yeah, you're a UFO guy. | ||
| Oh, you believe in lizard people. | ||
| You believe in mystery cults from 2000 BC that are still running the world. | ||
| He didn't want to be treated like that because on On some level, he knew that that was silly. | ||
| He wanted to be like, no, I'm just a meat and potatoes guy. | ||
| I'm just the guy who's out here talking about hard, concrete facts, documents. | ||
| You know, that's the presentation that he wanted. | ||
| But as time has gone on, that mask has slipped a ton. | ||
| You can see that even this, this sort of mystery, ancient cult shit, is something that he believes too, and he probably always has. | ||
| Yeah, it does. | ||
| But Bill was not afraid to wear it on his sleeve. | ||
| Yeah, it does seem like if I was listening to this show at his age with an eye towards getting into this kind of thing, it's a real short leap to go, okay, I'll do his show. | ||
| I'll rein in some of the weirdness. | ||
| I'll add some more bombast to counteract that. | ||
| Since I'm talking about less crazy ideas, I'm going to add more crazy antics. | ||
| To balance that out, and then I got a show. | ||
| I don't know if the crazy antics were even that much of his earlier show. | ||
| I guess some of the public access stuff that I've seen. | ||
| Just the bombast of just the yelling and the massive energy as opposed to everybody knows. | ||
| And it's not... | ||
| It's going to go down. | ||
| It's not something that I would ever think is an intentional choice, but you could easily see a way for you to fit into the market. | ||
| Yeah, for sure. | ||
| By taking a lot of the stuff that Bill does, taking a lot of the elements of this, and repackaging it a little bit. | ||
| Maybe he had to give his dad a detailed business plan of how he's going to do Bill Cooper's show before he got that initial loan. | ||
| Could be. | ||
| So, I love this show. | ||
| Yes, I know. | ||
| I know. | ||
| I find it to be fascinating, because Bill Cooper is trying. | ||
| It's refreshing to see a person who has a point, he attempts to make it, and even if the point he's making is dumb, and the evidence he has for it is a hoax, He's still trying. | ||
| Regardless of the reality or unreality of the point, he is trying. | ||
| And there's a measure of competence to what he's doing. | ||
| Even if the competence isn't in the research or the sourcing or anything, the presentation is competent. | ||
| The thing I'm struck by is how much of a statement Bill is making in this inaugural episode and how complete the message is. | ||
| Most of the episode is about how there's this secret war against the public which Bill is committed to fighting against. | ||
| That's a point that requires some support. | ||
| So Bill provides the underlying evidence for his claim, namely the Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars document. | ||
| It's not real, but if it were, then he would have made an argument and supported it with evidence, which is exactly what a show like this is supposed to do. | ||
| He's doing his job in a way that Alex refuses to or is unable to. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| But there's more to the statement than just that. | ||
| There's another statement being made, and that's served by the musical cue that he chose for the intro. | ||
| Bill Cooper played the Beach Boys' Make It Big for a reason. | ||
| That wasn't just some arbitrary station choice. | ||
| That wasn't a single. | ||
| It wasn't played on the radio. | ||
| And the album it came from came out three, four years prior to when this episode was recorded. | ||
| Bill chose that song to be played in the introduction for this first episode because it speaks to his philosophy. | ||
| From the lyrics, quote, Have a little faith in yourself in everything that you do. | ||
| You know you're going to make it big if you want to. | ||
| If you really want to, you can make it big. | ||
| In the song, those lyrics are about becoming a big movie star and singing her name in the bright lights. | ||
| But Bill is using the song to flip the meaning. | ||
| It's parody. | ||
| He's using the song about becoming a star in the entertainment industry to make a point that he doesn't want to be a star and never will. | ||
| The fact that he's out here talking about silent weapons for quiet wars make it impossible that they will ever allow him to make it big. | ||
| The very idea is a farce. | ||
| But he has a little faith in himself. | ||
| And everything he does. | ||
| So Bill Cooper is going to make it big. | ||
| But he's going to make it big on his own terms. | ||
| It's really remarkable. | ||
| Between his actual words and stylistic choices, in this episode, Bill shows you who he is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's good radio. | ||
| It is. | ||
| It's kind of infuriating. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's kind of infuriating on a certain level, just as the grass is always greener. | ||
| Kind of like... | ||
| We spent three years talking about that asshole whenever this asshole is available? | ||
| What are we doing? | ||
| But I don't know if we'd have as much of an ability to wrestle with a lot of this stuff if it wasn't for that. | ||
| No, that's what I mean when I say the grass is always greener. | ||
| That's not to say that this show is going to become all the hour of the time, all the time. | ||
| But I want to pursue this, and I have been listening to a ton of him, and I'm going to keep listening to it because it really intrigues me. | ||
| And I think that you see, because we spent as much time with Alex, and we have such a familiarity with a lot of his rhetoric and a lot of the choices that he makes, going back and listening to this stuff, you just see the blueprint. | ||
| You see the... | ||
| The things that Alex has stolen. | ||
| The things that Alex would never own up to being like, this is where I got this idea from. | ||
| And I think the more I listen to Bill, the more I'll be able to be like, oh, that's what Alex says, but he never provides a source. | ||
| Bill provides sources. | ||
| They'll be able to track down a lot of this stuff. | ||
| It's almost cross-referencing Alex Jones. | ||
| Yeah, I think we'll be able to do that. | ||
| And I think that will be a much more fun, wacky Wednesday thing. | ||
| And because, as we mentioned at the end of this, Bill does talk about aliens. | ||
| And Bill does talk about a bunch of stuff that fits into the wacky canon. | ||
| I'm in for it. | ||
| So this will be, I believe, the most fertile ground. | ||
| And it won't be a situation where we'll have to be cruel to the callers to Coast to Coast AM. | ||
| Right. | ||
| We can just enjoy... | ||
| The man who made Alex possible and learn a bit more. | ||
| I think it serves all our purposes. | ||
| Yeah, you know, we were talking about this just slightly recently of just like, I now agree with you when you said, I don't agree with Bill Cooper, but I do feel like I could sit down and talk to him. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I couldn't sit down at a bar with Alex and talk at all. | ||
| No, he's not a person. | ||
| No. | ||
| Well, he is a person, he's a human, and he has rights and all that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right, right. | |
| But he doesn't live, or he doesn't appear to live as a full, more than a character sketch. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| The way he carries himself, and you see it in interviews on his own show, videos that he shoots out on the street, and certainly all of those situations are performance spaces. | ||
| So you could make the argument that, hey, once the camera's off, he is a completely different person. | ||
| He's thoughtful, considerate, all that. | ||
| You could make that argument. | ||
| I don't believe it. | ||
| But you could say that. | ||
| I see Bill as much more of a full human. | ||
| Like someone you could have a beer with. | ||
| To me, just comedy-wise, you can tell, or I can tell doing it so long is just like... | ||
| When somebody walks up on stage and they start talking, I'm like, that's all bullshit. | ||
| That's fucking bullshit. | ||
| And then you can tell when somebody walks up and they're being genuine. | ||
| Yeah, and you're like, got it. | ||
| Almost instant, I felt that with Bill. | ||
| Yeah, and that whole, like, you could have a beer with him is so used by, like... | ||
| Trying to rationalize Bush. | ||
| Yeah, and war criminals in general. | ||
| Certainly. | ||
| And there's an element to that. | ||
| Like I said, there's tons of Bill's opinions that I would disagree with him. | ||
| Aggressively, were we to have that beer. | ||
| But I think that he could engage in that conversation. | ||
| I do, too. | ||
| Now, I don't think that it would be great if we sat down and I'm like, hey, Bill, silent weapons is fake. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't know how that... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Go! | |
| I don't know how that beer would go. | ||
| But it feels like there could be a conversation, whereas Alex would just yell at you and eventually talk about how you're a devil and I can see it because you have a cross eye. | ||
| Yeah, Alex runs away. | ||
| Alex at that bar is a... | ||
| Coward who would run away from an actual conversation. | ||
| Most likely. | ||
| And I think Bill would lean into it and be like, okay, let's figure it out. | ||
| Now let me tell you what's come into Kaji. | ||
| Alright, Bill. | ||
| I got a letter. | ||
| Alright, Bill. | ||
| I'm three beers deep. | ||
| Let's hear about Kaji. | ||
| It's signed by the president. | ||
| That means it must be real. | ||
| Alright, Bill. | ||
| So yeah, I mean, it's interesting. | ||
| I find one of the reasons I wanted to give myself this gift is like I need... | ||
| I need things to inspire me. | ||
| And I've realized that the things that I'm most interested in are the things that give us a larger understanding of the propaganda and the media, specifically, that are at the root of a lot of this patriot, militia, anti-communist, right-wing world. | ||
| And with Alex, it's so muddy now, especially in the present day, because... | ||
| Everything has become so... | ||
| Anyone can create their own media. | ||
| So there's hundreds and hundreds of dumb YouTube shows that are all espousing very similar messages. | ||
| But back in the 90s, there wasn't. | ||
| There were only a few shows. | ||
| A lot of them were on this WWCR shortwave broadcast. | ||
| But in terms of ones that are influential, a lot of people don't remember and never would remember a lot of these other shows because no one was listening to them. | ||
| But people in that world were listening to Bill Cooper. | ||
| This was a bit of a bottleneck for a lot of these ideas being disseminated. | ||
| And I think that what I find particularly interesting is going back and seeing... | ||
| We don't know what Alex was doing in 1993, necessarily. | ||
| He wasn't creating a product. | ||
| We don't have a lot of records or anything. | ||
| But what we can get a sense of him by is what media was he taking in. | ||
| And if we get a better understanding of Bill Cooper and the hour of the time, I think it gives us a much larger picture of what has created this gross asshole. | ||
| I agree. | ||
| I like adding him to our rogues gallery. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Immensely. | |
| So, we will see where things go in the future, but until then, Jordan, we have a website. | ||
| We do! | ||
| It's knowledgefight.com. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| That's on Twitter. | ||
| We are on Twitter. | ||
| It's at knowledge underscore fight, and I go to bet Jordan. | ||
| We're also on Facebook. | ||
| We are on Facebook. | ||
| We are also on iTunes or other podcasts. | ||
| Please download, leave a review, or donate, or whatever. | ||
| We love you. | ||
| Yeah, we'll be back, but until then, I'm Neo. | ||
| I'm Leo. | ||
| I'm DZX Clark. | ||
| I am the chairman of the Citizens Agency of Joint Intelligence. | ||
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your work. |