Today, Dan and Jordan need a Wacky Wednesday break from talking about Alex Jones, so Dan takes the opportunity to look into a little question he had about a possible motivation for the documentary being made about non-murderer and Friend Of The Raptors, Mark Richards.
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
|
I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys saying we are the bad guys. | |
| Knowledge fight. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Dan and Jordan. | |
| knowledge fight. | ||
| Need money. | ||
| Andy and Kansas. | ||
| Andy and Kansas. | ||
| Stop it. | ||
| Andy and Kansas. | ||
| Andy and Kansas. | ||
| It's time to pray. | ||
| Andy and Kansas. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I love you. | |
| Hey, everybody. | ||
| Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. | ||
| I'm Dan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm Jordan. | |
| We're a couple dudes who like to sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. | ||
| Indeed, we are Dan. | ||
| Jordan. | ||
| Dan? | ||
| Jordan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Has a particular song ever gotten you through a tough time? | |
| Yeah, I mean, hundreds of them. | ||
| Hundreds of them? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, I mean, you don't have, like, a go-to. | |
| Like, some people, like, in the olden times would listen to Blood on the Tracks whenever they got a breakup. | ||
| Something like that. | ||
| You don't have any, like, thing that you zeroed in on as your song, you know? | ||
| No, I mean, it's tough to say. | ||
| I guess something that I've had for the longest. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| I guess if you want to go that way. | ||
| I mean, some Mighty Mighty Boston stuff. | ||
| Sure, sure, sure. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| But I'm going through a bad breakup. | ||
| I want to listen to Mighty Mighty Boston. | ||
| About half of the, like, Question the Answers album is probably... | ||
| Stuff that I can put on and get kind of sentimental about, like Toxic Toast or Bronze in the Garbage. | ||
| Is that on that album? | ||
| I can't remember. | ||
| Don't Know How to Party? | ||
| That's on a different album. | ||
| I think that's for more noise and other disturbances. | ||
| You're still disturbed by how many Boston songs you could just toss up. | ||
| I probably could name the whole track listing of some of those albums. | ||
| Hell of a hat. | ||
| That's terrifying! | ||
| Love those albums. | ||
| I'm gonna wake up in a cold sweat knowing this. | ||
| Those got me through some tough times when I was a much younger man. | ||
| When I was in junior high and high school. | ||
| Really loved a lot of that. | ||
| And so maybe that has more of a strong sentimental connection to me. | ||
| A little bit ugly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's from Devil's Night Out. | ||
| Sure, sure. | ||
| A lot of that I could probably... | ||
| I haven't listened to any of that in a long time. | ||
| But I bet if I turned it on... | ||
| It would be great. | ||
| Next time I go to the gym, I'm going to rock out to Justin Boston. | ||
| I think that's a good idea. | ||
| I think that's probably the answer. | ||
| The other thing that comes to mind is now I air a lot on the side of things like Kesha and Carly Rae Jepsen and that stuff. | ||
| But that's not as long-standing for me. | ||
| Is that like a counteracting? | ||
| Is that like a counteracting? | ||
| When you're feeling down, you want to listen to bright, shiny pop music? | ||
| No, it's just kind of what I like more than a lot of stuff right now. | ||
| I think it's because I listen to tons of Alex Jones. | ||
| I have a lot of toxic things coming in. | ||
| The idea of some bright, cheery... | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| But then again, a lot of Kesha isn't necessarily bright and cheery. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| But no, I don't know. | ||
| I don't have a song, but I like the Boston's. | ||
| This podcast is where I know a lot about the Boston's and a ton about Alex Jones. | ||
| I don't know anything about either. | ||
| Yeah, that's right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So Jordan, today we've got an interesting situation on our hands. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| As I told you before we started recording here. | ||
| I spent all day yesterday listening to Alex and trying to prepare an episode based on his Sunday and Monday episodes from this week. | ||
| It was an experience I haven't had in a long time of just feeling like it's all a whiff. | ||
| It's just... | ||
| Who cares? | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| Sunday, it feels like him going back to his roots a little bit, but it's just kind of boring conspiracy stuff. | ||
| It feels untethered. | ||
| Larry Nichols didn't come back on like he said he might. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| I'm listening to Monday, and he's just talking about Trump going to Walter Reed Hospital, right? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And so it's all just Trump is being poisoned. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| We've done this already. | ||
| Yeah, we played this game. | ||
| Yeah, we played this game already with Roger with the slow acting in the Diet Cokes. | ||
| Polonium poison on top of that. | ||
| I just felt like real uninspired by it. | ||
| I felt like, I can't do this again. | ||
| I did think it was a little bit interesting. | ||
| Only in so much as back the last time that Alex covered this poisoning narrative that he was doing. | ||
| The way he presented it was, they're trying to kill our president. | ||
| It was very much a gung-ho thing. | ||
| Him and Roger calling for globalist blood. | ||
| They can't be allowed to do this. | ||
| No, of course not. | ||
| And the way I heard this on Monday's show was much more like, what are you going to do? | ||
| There was a sense of like... | ||
| They're poisoning our president, again. | ||
| What do you expect from the globalists? | ||
| Yeah, no kidding. | ||
| They're evil and they're bad, so we should be mad at them. | ||
| But Trump was almost like a prop. | ||
| This thing was being done to him, as opposed to like, we've got to stop this from happening. | ||
| And I thought that was a little interesting, but I also felt like I'm probably reading too much into this. | ||
| Maybe he's just tired. | ||
| I feel a little bit gun-shy about being too over-the-top about anything. | ||
| I do think that there's some trends you could see. | ||
| As Alex was introducing the narratives about, is Trump the globalist stooge who's in here to neutralize our opposition? | ||
| Like a controlled opposition kind of thing. | ||
| And I don't want to buy too much into that. | ||
| It's easy to take Alex at his word and then be like, a couple months later, be like, well... | ||
| Shouldn't you listen? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Like when he had Paul Joseph Watson on and they were talking about he was going to be going on to newer things. | ||
| Yeah, but he did! | ||
| Yeah, we got a little burned by that a tiny bit in terms of like, oh, I believed you. | ||
| They were fucking crying! | ||
| That's not fair! | ||
| No. | ||
| In fairness to us, there's every reason to think like, well, this might be real. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah! | |
| But I don't want to jump too far into, like, ah, this time he's talking about poisoning. | ||
| He's doing it differently. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I'm thinking it means anything. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Anyway, I listened to these episodes, and as I was taking clips from them and trying to find stuff to get into, I was just like, I felt like I was walking through mud, and I was just like, I can't do this. | ||
| So I have decided that we're going to do an episode today about a certain question that I have been wrestling with. | ||
| And we've brought up on the show before. | ||
| It'll be sort of Wacky Wednesday-ish. | ||
| It's fairly wacky. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And so we are going to explore this question. | |
| And we will get into that in a moment. | ||
| But before we do, we've got to say thank you to some people who have signed up and are supporting the show. | ||
| That sounds good. | ||
| So first of all, Scott, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, Scott. | ||
| Thank you, David. | ||
| Thank you, David. | ||
| Next, Dustin. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, Dustin. | ||
| Next, PropagandaDoo. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| PropagandaDoo. | ||
| Next, AsinineGenius. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| AsinineGenius. | ||
| AsinineGenius. | ||
| And then finally, I'd like to say thank you to somebody who donated on an elevated level. | ||
| We appreciate that very much. | ||
| So, Gravity Head Zero, thank you so much. | ||
| You're now a technocrat. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Crikey, mate. | ||
| That's fantastic. | ||
| Have yourself a brew. | ||
| How's your 401k doing, bro? | ||
| All right, we got to go full tilt boogie on this, Watson, all right? | ||
| Let's just get down to business. | ||
| We ain't making that money off that heroin. | ||
| Why are you pimp so good? | ||
| My neck is freakishly large. | ||
| I declare Infowar on you. | ||
| Thank you so much, Gravity Head Zero. | ||
| Yes, thank you very much. | ||
| If you're listening out there and you're thinking, hey, I enjoy the show, I'd like to support what these gents do, you can do that by going to our website, knowledgefight.com, clicking the button that says support the show. | ||
| We would appreciate it. | ||
| It'd be very helpful. | ||
| So, Jordan, like I said, I have a question that I have been wrestling with. | ||
| The last time we dipped our little toes into the Project Camelot world, it was a question that was coming up. | ||
| And felt important. | ||
| And that is, why is Kevin Moore doing what he's doing? | ||
| Right, right, right, right. | ||
| He is the guy, if you do not recall, he is the guy who's producing and directing a documentary about Carrie Cassidy and Project Camelot and Mark Richards. | ||
| And his actions seem very suspicious to me. | ||
| So I want to give a little bit of an introduction for everybody who needs a quick reference on what has happened. | ||
| Oh, are you going to channel him? | ||
| Previously on Wacky Wednesday. | ||
| You're going to need to do a voice, though. | ||
| In our channeling world, you've got to do the voice. | ||
| So for those who need a refresher, early on in doing this podcast, this knowledge fight here, we realized that talking about Alex Jones all the time was not good for anyone. | ||
| To give ourselves and the audience a break, we would take periodic little trips, little excursions to talk about people who claim to have been to space and claim to talk to aliens, who have been interviewed on a show called Project Camelot. | ||
| Project Camelot is hosted by Carrie Cassidy, the least credulous woman on the planet. | ||
| Initially, it was all a lot of fun, with super soldiers and chocolate-stealing raptors, until over time it became clear that Carrie was holding some of the same underlying bigotries we see in other right-wing outlets. | ||
| Every goddamn time, we're like, hey, this is fun and delightful! | ||
| No! | ||
| It's all anti-Semitism! | ||
| Damn it! | ||
| Her support for the protocols of the elders of Zion was certainly troubling, and I can't say I'm thrilled with some of her other comments about Jews, generally speaking, and suspicions. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| So over time, it became less whimsical and fun to listen to her show, but her interviews with Captain Mark Richards were still required viewing. | ||
| Dynamite. | ||
| And so far there are no holes in that story. | ||
| He knows everything about human politics and galactic affairs, and the only journalist he'll talk to is Carrie Cassidy. | ||
| Because he's in prison, Carrie can't really interview him, so she just goes to the jail, talks to him, and then sits down in front of a webcam when she gets home and reviews her notes. | ||
| Thus, the name of her series about Mark Richards, Total Recall. | ||
| Leave aside for a moment that that's a reference to a movie based on Philip K. Dick's short story that plays with the idea of whether or not memories are real. | ||
| That's not important. | ||
| Over the years, Mark has told Carrie some absolutely insane shit, which she then reports to her audience as gospel coming from a very real and very reliable source who definitely isn't a murderer. | ||
| He's a noble space captain who's friends with raptors and the enemy of the evil reptoids. | ||
| He's got a hell of a resume. | ||
| He does. | ||
| I will give him a fake resume as long as the day. | ||
| Enter Kevin Moore, a British documentarian and channeler. | ||
| For years, Kevin hosted a program called, and still does in some fashion, called The Kevin Moore Show, where he interviews some dubious, dubious people about paranormal and new age kinds of topics. | ||
| He's had Carrie Cassidy on as a guest and even interviewed Mark's wife, Joanne Richards. | ||
| He's showed no signs of thinking that what they were doing was absurd. | ||
| And in his interview with Joanne, he completely went along with her stories about Mark being a secret space captain who was framed for murder. | ||
| But something changed at some point. | ||
| And now Kevin is directing a documentary series about Mark Richards being a murderer and how Carrie, Joanne, and another pro-Mark figure named Simon Parks are all basically in a cult. | ||
| Obviously, Kevin is right about that. | ||
| I'm glad. | ||
| Well, I am, for one, I'm glad that somebody's finally tackling this subject of Mark Richards being a liar. | ||
| Because for the longest time when we've talked about it, we both assumed he was telling the truth, of course. | ||
| He's really opened my eyes on the subject. | ||
| But he's right. | ||
| Mark is definitely a murderer, and his defenders are all delusional to some extent. | ||
| But even if I agree with that conclusion, something doesn't sit right with me about how Kevin reached the conclusion. | ||
| He had no credentials as being a person who would have scruples, but now he's positioning himself as someone who is going to expose a major fraud in the paranormal and UFO communities. | ||
| I didn't get it, so I started looking into it. | ||
| And this is all still recap. | ||
| Well, let's not forget, he still does not have any scruples. | ||
| This is not a sea change. | ||
| This is an isolated incident of him trying to do one, I suppose, good thing. | ||
| Still surrounded with scamming people for hundreds and hundreds of dollars a minute. | ||
| In looking into Kevin Moore so far, in the past, I see nothing but a picture of a completely uncompelling charlatan. | ||
| Like, he has videos that we've talked about where he channels aliens, like this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We come to you as many. | |
| The gift of Kevin is the gift to be able to channel multiple entities. | ||
| Multiple beings. | ||
| And that is a true gift in this special time on planet Earth right now. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He doesn't need to change his voice or act in a different way. | |
| This is an agreement we have with him. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Never going to get tired of that. | ||
| No, it's fantastic. | ||
| Never going to get tired of that. | ||
| So he has videos where he's channeling aliens. | ||
| There's no rigorous standards of proof of what he's doing here. | ||
| He runs a psychic hotline. | ||
| He's used his show to give largely uncritical interviews to all manner of dubious folks, like the employees of his psychic hotline or the guy from Apex TV who claims to talk to time travelers, but he's really just creating viral hoax content, probably for ad revenue. | ||
| Kevin claims that he's making this documentary series because what Carrie and Mark are doing is bad for the community of alternative folks because they don't do their research. | ||
| They haven't done the... | ||
| They're giving it a bad name. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| What they're doing is not real, whereas presumably what Kevin is doing is based on reality. | ||
| It's an absurd justification for the documentary, so I reject it. | ||
| If we accept that that can't possibly be why he's doing what he's doing, we're left to ask, what's really going on? | ||
| I can't pretend to tell you that I've solved this mystery, but I had a little bit of a theory, and I explored it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And I'm going to present that theory to you today. | ||
| All right. | ||
| One of the primary things that's bothered me about this whole thing is, where's the money coming from? | ||
| Ooh, bigger question. | ||
| Is Carrie his mom? | ||
| No. | ||
| Okay, never mind. | ||
| You've already pitched that Mark is his dad. | ||
| I know. | ||
| I've got one theory. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So where's the money coming from, Jordan? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Is Kevin more independently wealthy? | ||
| Did he sell off a business 10 years ago that's funding this whole thing? | ||
| It's a relevant question because he's clearly traveling all over the place. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| There's videos of him flying around. | ||
| He's going to California to try and track down people involved in Mark's case. | ||
| He's jet-setting. | ||
| You know, for this documentary, he's gone all over the place. | ||
| And I will say that he has... | ||
| Way higher production value than a lot of the folks I come across in this space weirdo community. | ||
| Yeah, it'd be weird if Ken Burns was producing this. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Even assuming he's a naturally talented video producer, there's still some money going into this. | ||
| Trying to answer that question led me back to a video that Kevin posted in 2013, introducing a new partnership with The Kevin Moore Show. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The Moore Show is in partnership with Ozark Mountain Publishing, taking readers beyond the unexplained. | |
| Hello, I'm Kevin Moore, and I host The Moore Show, Alternative Late Night Talk, on radio, TV, and online. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I'm Joanna So, producer of The Moore Show. | |
| We are proud to announce that The Moore Show is now in partnership with Ozark Mountain Publishing. | ||
| The Marshall Alternative Late Night Talk is on the leading edge of alternative radio and TV programming in the UK. | ||
| The show's mission is to uplift and awaken human consciousness through bold and powerful interviews with paranormal researchers. | ||
| This goes on for a while. | ||
| Yeah, I believe it. | ||
| But it also gets to the end, and it's talking about, you know, we're going to sell the books of Ozark Mountain Publishing, and we're going to launch a platform where you can buy advertising. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So it's a comprehensive platform. | |
| See, this is interesting. | ||
| Ozark Mountain Publishing is not a super-huge publishing outlet. | ||
| So it seems strange that they would be partnering up with a not-super-huge paranormal show all the way across the Atlantic Ocean. | ||
| It's hard to say exactly what kind of revenue Ozark Mountain Publishing is pulling in, but a review on Glassdoor from a former employee complains that working there involves a, quote, crazy family-managed environment and says that it's a small company with less than 50 employees. | ||
| Yeah, that sounds right. | ||
| I don't know why. | ||
| I think for some reason I'm prejudiced against any company that is like Ozark Mountain or Ozark. | ||
| What about the Ozark Water Bottle Company? | ||
| See, I mean, they make water bottles, so they're bad. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| What about Lake of the Ozarks? | ||
| You ever been there? | ||
| I don't think I have ever been there. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, it's great. | |
| Gorgeous, gorgeous lake. | ||
| Have you ever been there? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It's in the middle of Missouri. | ||
| I think my buddy, his parents had a lake house there. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| We went tubing there once. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| It's a good time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Well, then I retract my Ozark prejudices. | ||
| Ozark is a big, broad term. | ||
| Don't be so biased. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| Ozark Mountain Publishing was founded in 1992 by a woman named Dolores Cannon. | ||
| Dolores passed in 2014, but prior to that, she was a bit of a player in the world of the paranormal. | ||
| She'd written a ton of books. | ||
| She put on the Ozark UFO conference, which is allegedly currently, right now, in its 33rd year. | ||
| I'm not sure that's true, but it could be. | ||
| I mean, yeah, the Fyre Fest is in its third year, right? | ||
| Something like that. | ||
| Third year? | ||
| 33rd. | ||
| Never mind. | ||
| Dolores was doing hypnosis back in the 60s to try and help patients with things like smoking and overeating and behavioral issues. | ||
| Oh, okay, so she wasn't scamming. | ||
| It's hard to say, but I don't have a gigantically negative sense about Dolores, although I do think she's a little scammy. | ||
| Everyone in this world kind of is. | ||
| They gotta be, a little bit. | ||
| But if you're trying to help people quit smoking with hypnosis, that's way better than if you're charging... | ||
| This is back in the 60s. | ||
| If you're charging $90 a minute to get psychic readings and shit. | ||
| We have 70 years to cover. | ||
| That's a good point. | ||
| That's a good point. | ||
| Fair. | ||
| In the course of doing her work, she stumbled upon a woman in 1968 who regaled her with stories of a past life when she was hypnotized. | ||
| Dolores' work got interrupted when her husband got injured and she had to care for him and the family had to relocate to the Ozarks, but by the late 70s, she was back up and running, hypnotizing people. | ||
| I found a particular line in Dolores' bio pretty funny. | ||
| Quote, her early work was heavily focused on reincarnation, which got her acquainted and comfortable with the concept of time travel. | ||
| Which I would say, how could it not? | ||
| I mean, so many reasons? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I feel like those two things are not related. | ||
| Not necessarily. | ||
| So her work began as past life regression, but eventually grew into what she calls quantum healing hypnosis technique, which is a name that she has trademarked. | ||
| Alright, now we're back into scammy territory. | ||
| A little... | ||
| As she continued her work in the field, she found resistance on the part of the mainstream bookhouses to publish her writing, and thus she started up Ozark Mountain Publishing in 1992, through which she puts out tons of books of her own, as well as those of tons of other New Age sorts of writers. | ||
| Three of the books she put out were of her own. | ||
| That they purport to be the authoritative interpretations of Nostradamus' prophecies. | ||
| Three of those books? | ||
| Well, it's a three-part series. | ||
| It's a three-part series. | ||
| She could be certain that they are authoritative because Nostradamus himself told her so. | ||
| Oh, there we go. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| In a session she was having, her patient began speaking as an Ostradamus and told her that everyone was getting his shit wrong because of changes to the French language over time, and he needed Dolores to write a book to correct the record. | ||
| Of course he did. | ||
| I don't believe any of that. | ||
| Of course he didn't only write in French, but who cares? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So Dolores Cannon runs this publishing house, and they've entered into a partnership with The Moore Show in 2013, which on its own is kind of weird, but it's not entirely insane. | ||
| I know how it can be when you're trying to get your name out there. | ||
| Sometimes you make marketing decisions that seem strange to external observers. | ||
| Like a couple years ago, I bought a Facebook ad, for instance. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, it happens. | ||
| What are you going to do? | ||
| But here's the thing. | ||
| This wasn't just Ozark Mountain Publishing buying an ad on Kevin's show. | ||
| This was a partnership. | ||
| Like, in that ad, that announcement, it's a business integration sort of thing, you can tell. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And guess what? | ||
| This was not short-term. | ||
| I've reviewed a ton of Kevin's videos from the past few months in 2019, and most of them start with an ad for Dolores Cannon. | ||
|
unidentified
|
*Music* | |
| a great ad for Dolores Cannon. | ||
| What if you could help others to find the power to heal themselves? | ||
| Physically, emotionally, and spiritually. | ||
| When I started teaching my classes, it was in 2002, and I was just doing the past life regressions and contacting the subconscious part. | ||
| But then as the time went on and we found how powerful this was and what we could do with it, a lot of the students began saying, "You know, advanced past life regression doesn't really tell what it's all about." This is so much more than that. | ||
| We think you should change the name. | ||
| So it was a few years ago we decided to change the name to Quantum Healing Hypnosis Technique. | ||
| And this is the healing technique that we've now been teaching since 2002. | ||
| That's 12 years. | ||
| What if you could time travel with them? | ||
| Visit mythical places or angelic realms. | ||
| Other worlds, other galaxies. | ||
| Help others to speak to their higher selves. | ||
| You can. | ||
| Dolores has taught thousands of people from across the world how to use QHHT. | ||
| And now you can learn her method by going directly to DoloresCanon.com. | ||
| And don't forget to mention the discount code, MoreTalks. | ||
|
unidentified
|
*music* | |
| So that's six years that the Moore Show has been in partnership with the Dolores Cannon. | ||
| Slash Ozark Mountain Publishing Business. | ||
| And that seems interesting to me. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Having a coupon code for time travel seems very interesting to me. | ||
| It's not so much time travel for yourself. | ||
| It's the quantum technique that allows you to help other people time travel or something. | ||
| No, I get that. | ||
| Which actually I think is even more irresponsible because you're teaching people how to do a weird therapy to other people. | ||
| I'm not comfortable with any of this. | ||
| It's franchising your time travel therapy. | ||
| More or less. | ||
| Makes perfect sense. | ||
| I've gone through tons of Kevin's videos, and I can find no evidence of any other sponsors other than Dolores Cannon, extending to the Ozark Mountain Publishing, and his own website, Channeling.com, which is little more than a front for Kevin's Psychic Cop. | ||
| So I don't see where any other income or flow of money is coming from, except this long-standing partnership with Dolores Cannon and Ozark Mountain Publishing. | ||
| These videos on his channel also have pretty low engagement. | ||
| So it would be completely unbelievable for me to imagine that he's making any real money on YouTube monetizing these documentaries that he's putting out. | ||
| They call us channelers, this new documentary that he's put out. | ||
| That's not being sold anywhere. | ||
| Maybe it's some real boutique shop or something. | ||
| Real niche, new age shop. | ||
| It's being rented in blockbusters still. | ||
| I doubt it. | ||
| I doubt even that. | ||
| I can't see that being a strong revenue stream. | ||
| But he flew all over the place to interview these channelers. | ||
| There is a money flow coming in. | ||
| Something is happening. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I just don't know exactly what it is. | ||
| It makes me think that based on this, he's either making a killing on that psychic hotline, which I find probably unbelievable. | ||
| I imagine there's some money coming in there, but it can't possibly be enough. | ||
| I just don't see it being enough. | ||
| I think a lot of this money has got to be coming from Ozark Mountain Publishing and from the Dolores Cannon branch. | ||
| So that raises the question, is there any reason to suspect that there would be beef between Carrie Cassidy and Dolores Cannon? | ||
| And I think that there is. | ||
| Okay, Dolores Cannon didn't publish Carrie's book. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I know that she wouldn't. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Dolores Cannon didn't publish Mark Richards' book? | ||
| I know that he wouldn't do that either. | ||
| She was like, no, no Mako shark rampant in my house. | ||
| No, but he doesn't need that because when he was writing that book, Joanne, his soon-to-be wife, was working in publishing. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But I was questioning this possibility that there might be some sort of a schism between Carrie and Dolores Cannon. | ||
| And that led me... | ||
| To a May 3rd, 2010 video that Carrie Cassidy posted on Project Camelot of her interviewing Dolores Cannon. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So this is from back in 2010. | ||
| Dolores is Carrie's mom? | ||
| No. | ||
| Okay, damn it. | ||
| If you watch this video, there's a very good reason to believe that these two, Dolores and Carrie, are not nearly on the same page as each other. | ||
| So here's Carrie giving an introduction. | ||
|
unidentified
|
This is Carrie Cassidy from Project Camelot and I'm here with Dolores Cannon. | |
| I'm very pleased to introduce our audience to Dolores Cannon and her work. | ||
| I have been studying your work for quite some time, read several of your books and I'm very impressed with your diligence, with the care you take, with each and every person that you regress. | ||
| And I just really want to welcome you here. | ||
| Thank you very much for taking my time. | ||
| Thanks for asking me to do this. | ||
| So this is very friendly and jovial. | ||
| We're off to a great start. | ||
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| And it doesn't go off the rails or anything. | ||
| It doesn't turn into a fight. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But if you know anything about Carrie, and if you know anything about the world that she believes in, you will hear certain things along the way through this interview that are gigantic. | ||
| Things that she disagrees with. | ||
| This first one that comes up is a discussion of alien abductions. | ||
| Dolores has an interesting take on alien abductions that is 100% counter to Carrie. | ||
| In the beginning, it was just taking them on board the craft. | ||
| My book that I've written about this my 25 years is called The Custodians. | ||
| Because all through my work, I've not seen any negativity. | ||
| It's always been positive. | ||
| This is the way I see them, as the custodians of our planets. | ||
| The first book I wrote on it was The Keepers of the Garden. | ||
| We are the garden, and they are the gardeners. | ||
| And I've never found negativity, because I could see why they were doing what they were doing, and the reasons for the whole thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, and when you say they, who are you talking about? | |
| The ETs. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| So, up to this point in the interview, Dolores has just been explaining her backstory to Carrie, and describing how she's discovered through hypnotizing people that they'd been abducted by aliens, but that was always a positive experience. | ||
| This is a major, major departure from the worldview of Project Camelot, where pretty much all alien abduction is nefarious, and likely the work of the evil reptilians or their associates in the human secret space program. | ||
| Even if they're good, ostensibly, in her pantheon, they're abducting people evilly. | ||
| The raptors are great, but they're going to eat you for chocolate. | ||
| Carrie believes that a lot of this stuff is done to, like the abductions, is done to harvest material from us in order to produce clones or hybrids that can, I guess, be used to better take over society or something. | ||
| Gallbladders are delicious, that's it. | ||
| Yeah, they're made of chocolate. | ||
| But Dolores doesn't believe that. | ||
| In her experience, all interactions with E.T. have been positive ones. | ||
| And she professes to have an understanding of their purpose, which is something that Carrie can't argue with. | ||
| If she has, like, I've spoken to the aliens, I know why they're doing what they're doing. | ||
| Carrie can't be like, well, here's evidence. | ||
| How the fuck much of a dead end is that? | ||
| There is a little bit of, it's like two people arguing over what houses look like in heaven, where you're like, I mean, yeah, I get what you're saying, but... | ||
| Shut up. | ||
| So as Dolores lays out in the interview, these aliens are just the custodians of the planet. | ||
| And when they abduct somebody, they're doing it to help them. | ||
| There are these adjustments that need to be made in humans, and the E.T. are there to make those adjustments so the person can live up to the arrangements that they made before being born, so they can carry out their mission in life. | ||
| This is, uh, great. | ||
| Fantastic. | ||
| It's a large, more new age inspired than a lot of what Carrie is into. | ||
| There's this idea of your soul and before and after you die, you and your soul group are together and you guys all make arrangements of what you're going to do in the next life and then once you're born, your mind is wiped. | ||
| You can't remember anything. | ||
| That's impossible. | ||
| Have you ever tried to get four or five people to go out for dinner? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Making arrangements for what you're going to do in the next life is never going to happen. | |
| Your inability to create those dinner plans is something you agreed on before you were born. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| I wish I had remembered that. | ||
| You and your soul group agreed to make it impossible to make dinner plans in order so once you were incarnated on Earth, you and your friends could grow through that frustration. | ||
| You created your own challenge pre-birth in order. | ||
| It's a new agey thing. | ||
| It's pretty common in a lot of these circles to have these. | ||
| It's a predestination, but also free will. | ||
| Because your mind's wiped, it allows for both to sort of coexist. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| It's where Dolores is at for sure, and it is not where Carrie is at. | ||
| No, no, no, absolutely. | ||
| So what we see here is the first indication of a fundamental difference in worldview between these two. | ||
| On the small scale, there's the differing takes on alien abduction, but if you zoom out, this is a microcosm of a much larger disagreement, primarily about what the character of the universe is. | ||
| For Carrie, space is a place full of war and different races of aliens doing battle for control of, I guess, space resources? | ||
| For Dolores, space is full of love and care. | ||
| It's just an extension of something that's all about us, but also much larger than us. | ||
| There's a game going on involving us and other alien races, but we're playing it together, and it's about cooperative advancement. | ||
| Killer! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Killer! | |
| These are entirely incompatible views of the galaxy that these two people have. | ||
| I know what she would be called if Larry Nichols were around. | ||
| Witch. | ||
| She's a witch. | ||
| So we get to a little bit later in the interview and they start talking about what aliens are you talking about? | ||
| And we instantly find another branching between these two that I don't know how they could possibly bridge this gap. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So you were talking to which groups now? | |
| They don't have names. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They don't have names. | |
| But as far as we know, in other words, we know about, for example, Nordics as a general category, and we know about greys and so on and so forth, even reptilians. | ||
| I've been contacted with all of them and come through at various times. | ||
| But when I asked them, "Where are you from?" They said, we don't have a name from where we come from. | ||
| You humans have to put labels on things. | ||
| So if you need it, we will give you a label. | ||
| But they said, if we told you we were from the planet out there to the north of the North Star, you wouldn't know which one it was because it's not even in your constellation books. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's right. | |
| But they don't come from planets anyway. | ||
| They come from other dimensions and galaxies far, far away. | ||
| Because they travel through dimensions. | ||
| And so they said it wouldn't do any good to tell you where we are from. | ||
| And on board the crafts are many, many different kinds. | ||
| Just like Star Trek. | ||
| Just like Star Trek. | ||
| So here we have another fundamental disagreement between Carrie and Dolores Cannon. | ||
| One of the things that most characterizes Carrie's view of the folks from space is that they all belong to rigidly defined groups. | ||
| And they are defined by the group's characteristics. | ||
| The Reptilians are Draco. | ||
| They're pure evil. | ||
| The spider leadership are bad, and they're meddling on Earth. | ||
| The Mantids were formerly bad, but they've made an alliance and they might be on our side now, according to Simon Parks or something. | ||
| The Raptors are good and they're our allies, though they will eat babies on occasion and will kill you for chocolate. | ||
| Which, it's like, sometimes you gotta make a deal. | ||
| Look, I mean, you know, Saudi Arabia is technically our ally. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| Naturally, the Nordics, the aliens most like white people, are unassailably good. | ||
| It is weird how they are unassailably good. | ||
| That is true. | ||
| Dolores sees a far more multicultural universe. | ||
| Compared to Carrie, her view is downright progressive. | ||
| The labels of alien groups' names are meaningless in the larger picture, and they only exist because humans have a need to put labels on things. | ||
| In the real world of space, Nordics work alongside raptors, mantids, and reptilians on the same spacecraft. | ||
| It's like Star Trek. | ||
| Yeah! | ||
| Obviously, since I don't believe any of this, I'm left to try and find meaning in subtext. | ||
| I feel like the world that Dolores believes in is one where there's unity, where everyone can be valued and collaborate, where group labels are meaningless. | ||
| Conversely, Carrie seems to trapped in a mode of thinking where what group someone is a part of dictates certain intrinsic characteristics about them. | ||
| Applied to humans, this is what you might call racist. | ||
| Yeah! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| The way Carrie engages in this stuff, it's not necessarily fair to call it racist because she could easily say that human is the group that we would apply universal characteristics to in the same way she does with raptor or reptilian. | ||
| The problem is in how accepting that kind of thinking allows a person to apply it to subgroups pretty easily. | ||
| Carrie may believe that species is the smallest possible group where these kinds of generalizations can be made, but I don't trust that position to hold. | ||
| Nor have I ever really heard her articulate that kind of hard and fast line, that kind of rule of like, this kind of thinking only applies this far. | ||
| It shan't be applied. | ||
| Again, I think that you need to be responsible if you're going to be like, this group is intrinsically this way. | ||
| This group is intrinsically this way. | ||
| You've got to be real clear, but you'd better not apply this elsewhere. | ||
| What we're dealing with here is a classic... | ||
| Did Bill and Ted win or did Bill and Ted lose intergalactic government situation here? | ||
| That's the situation? | ||
| Yeah, have you never seen it? | ||
| Everybody, Air Guitars, it's fantastic. | ||
| It's amazing. | ||
| But in Bogus Journey, whenever the evil Bill and Ted are around there, they're just causing destruction. | ||
| They're just ruining everything. | ||
| Carrie is the evil Bill and Ted. | ||
| This is unassailable logic. | ||
| This is an interesting take. | ||
| I'll say that what my perspective is, I appreciate yours. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| But what I'm saying is that I'm not trying to call Carrie's view racist and Dolores' view not racist, but I think what we see here still indicates a profoundly divergent view of the universe between their two worldviews. | ||
| Carrie sees the galaxy as a war zone between distinct groups of alien races, whereas Dolores sees it as a place of growth and evolution, where different groups don't see themselves as different and work towards shared goals. | ||
| It's the difference between seeing the universe as primarily conflict and seeing it as primarily cooperation. | ||
| It's difficult for me to stress how at odds their positions are, which is very interesting. | ||
| Carrie and Dolores don't seem to hate each other. | ||
| And their interview is polite enough, but they have nothing in common. | ||
| Yeah, that is interesting. | ||
| Although, Dolores loses me. | ||
| Actually, and I don't even know if this is brilliant within the context of her statement, or if it's exactly as stupid as it sounds, but the idea of an alien race being like, yeah, we're north of that star. | ||
| North, north, north. | ||
| In space? | ||
| You're north in space? | ||
| Which north? | ||
| I think that she was saying that as an absurd way to look at it. | ||
| But see, that's the thing. | ||
| In the context, she wasn't saying it like... | ||
| She was saying it like the alien race told her that as a way of saying that. | ||
| I don't think that she was. | ||
| I think she was. | ||
| I don't think she was. | ||
| I think she was. | ||
| I think she was using that as an example of what you would want to hear from an alien and it being meaningless. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's how I heard it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Everything's open to interpretation. | ||
| I think there's a lot of fair criticisms of all of these people, but I think that's nitpicky. | ||
| Hey, I'm a hard sci-fi guy, Dan. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| So, we get back to Alien Abductions here in their interview, and Dolores says something really interesting that I could see Carrie taking personally. | ||
| The ideal situation should be that the person never remembers anything about the experience, because they have been coming since the beginning of the Earth. | ||
| I'm taking care of humans since the beginning of the Earth. | ||
| And they don't want to interfere with the individual's life. | ||
| We should, because of free will, we should be allowed to just live and experience life as we know it. | ||
| We're not supposed to interfere with it. | ||
| But, they said, because the chemistry of the brain has changed, the pollutants in the air, the additives to the food... | ||
| If the person is on drugs of any kind, recreational or medical drugs, if they are drinking on alcohol, it changes the chemistry of the brain. | ||
| Thus, when the person remembers an experience, they don't remember at all, usually it's parts of an experience or a dream, they are remembering the experience in a distorted fashion. | ||
| So it's not correct. | ||
| And they're quite scared. | ||
| They think they've been raped. | ||
| They think all kinds of horrible things have happened to them. | ||
| And this is what the ET community, UFO community, they exploit that. | ||
| They have speakers come and talk about all the horrible things that were done to them. | ||
| Well, I can have the same person that somebody else has got this horrible story from. | ||
| I do them. | ||
| We get a totally different story because we find out what really happened. | ||
| You're so close. | ||
| And it's not at all what they thought it was. | ||
| So Dolores is expressing that these people, because they have some... | ||
| Ideally, the aliens' brain wipe or whatever would hold. | ||
| But because of environmental changes or drugs or whatever, booze, these people have a partial memory of something. | ||
| And they're exploited by the UFO community. | ||
| Who's part of that UFO community? | ||
| She just told Carrie that one... | ||
| Everything that she believes is actually true is a shitty distortion of what's real. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And two, she's part of a group of people exploiting people based on that. | ||
| In one fucking paragraph, she's invalidated all of Carrie. | ||
| Well, without being super or hyper confrontational, she is saying... | ||
| She just said everything you do is bullshit. | ||
| More or less. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Damn. | ||
| So, I mean, that's gotta be tough to hear. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Especially if you've made your life lying. | ||
| So Carrie's pretty interested in this interview about the, like we talk about a lot, and I've already brought up this obsession almost with categorizing these aliens. | ||
| And Dolores seems to think that she's focusing on the wrong thing. | ||
| Let's go back a minute. | ||
| You were talking about the different races. | ||
| I've had many different ones come through. | ||
| Some of them you wouldn't even recognize. | ||
| They're not any pictures you've ever seen. | ||
| But they're able to communicate because it's all... | ||
| It's mind to mind, but they speak through the person I'm working with. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And we have... | ||
| I have information that I can tell you that you wouldn't believe, but you want to... | ||
| I bet you would. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, okay. | |
| We'll be happy to hear some of the information I wouldn't believe, if that's what you think. | ||
| See, I think there's a little bit of Carrie taking that as condescension. | ||
| Oh, yeah, absolutely. | ||
| And I could sense a bit of that through the interview. | ||
| Although, like I said, it doesn't turn into a fight or anything. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Like Carrie might in the present day. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or whatever. | ||
| There's still a bit of, I don't know, respect between the two of them. | ||
| And I think that some of that might be a product of this being in 2010. | ||
| A lot of things were quite different. | ||
| We were still pre-2012 predictions. | ||
| So everyone was really excited about this world of shit. | ||
| I'm getting a very maternal vibe from Dolores. | ||
| She's an older lady. | ||
| In this interview. | ||
| I mean, just in the way that she is interacting with Carrie as being like... | ||
| You're young, you've got a lot more to learn about this. | ||
| You're focusing on all this. | ||
| And Carrie would obviously take that as condescension. | ||
| Oh yeah, because it kind of is. | ||
| Mildly, maybe. | ||
| I think it's more like, I have a perspective about this that explains your perspective. | ||
| And you could easily see that as condescension. | ||
| But also, I mean, Dolores has been doing this since the 70s. | ||
| She's been... | ||
| She's been in this game a lot longer than Carrie, too, so she's earned her maternal status. | ||
| And don't get me wrong, I'm not sitting here talking about how great Dolores Cannon is. | ||
| Later in the episode where she's talking to Carrie, she's a pretty anti-vax. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| We can't have anything nice, Dan! | ||
| I'm not here to say that she's a hero or anything. | ||
| But the point is, these two people both believe in aliens and all that shit, but have completely different perspectives on what's happening. | ||
| There are disagreements about the nature of abductions, the nature of alien life, the value of dividing aliens into different groups, whether or not the behavior of the UFO community is actually making things worse for abductees. | ||
| There's very little that they seem to have agreement on, other than don't get vaccinated. | ||
| Great. | ||
| Good way to come together on the right issue there. | ||
| But I don't know if I can find any evidence of an actual public feud between the two. | ||
| I think that Dolores Cannon seems like a woman who wouldn't stoop to that, and I don't know if I've seen too many examples of Carrie directly attacking someone unless she perceived them to be attacking her, as is in the case with Kevin Moore currently. | ||
| It would make my theory a lot simpler if I could point to a long-standing flame war between them, but I don't think that that's ever happened. | ||
| It seems like this is a case where there are two camps, the Cannon side and the Camelot side. | ||
| And they're just ideological rivals vying for position in the paranormal New Age community. | ||
| Cannon's work reflects a message of hope, of the New Age ideals, of human evolution and expansion of consciousness. | ||
| Ozark Mountain Publishing puts out books with titles like Dance of Heavenly Bliss, Heaven Here on Earth, and Reconnecting to the Earth. | ||
| Scrolling through their catalog, it's more or less devoid of fear, selling the audience instead on messages of hope. | ||
| Conversely, everything that Camelot puts out provides the eldritch glimpse into a secret world of space combat, secret technology being hidden from humans for evil reasons, and grand nefarious conspiracies. | ||
| Every natural disaster is just aliens eating people that the government needs to cover up. | ||
| Wars, their attempts to stop alien invasions coming through Stargates, secret Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| We're dealing with Space Marianne Williamson versus Space Trump. | ||
| That's what we're... | ||
| That's our worldview ideological divide here. | ||
| I didn't want to let that commercial from 2013 play all the way. | ||
| It was for Marianne Williamson? | ||
| No, but in Kevin's list of people he's interviewed, one of them was Marianne Williamson. | ||
| Of course it is! | ||
| Of course it is! | ||
| I couldn't find that on his YouTube page, but we would have covered it already. | ||
| Also, to Carrie's worldview, human tragedies that happen, like mass shootings and things, those are false flags. | ||
| Being carried out by the reptilian bloodlines that have conquered the planet already through subterfuge. | ||
| Everything is fear. | ||
| Anyone who spent any time trafficking in conspiracy and paranormal message boards or communities understands that these are kind of the two poles in that world. | ||
| And that kind of makes sense. | ||
| You know, it's a perspective thing. | ||
| How you could see the same glass as half full or half empty but just applied to secret alien shit and all that. | ||
| You know, it's kind of... | ||
| Yeah, except the glass is fucking fictional. | ||
| That's the situation. | ||
| Yeah, but so is that hypothetical glass we always talk about. | ||
| See, there we go. | ||
| So Dolores Cannon passed away in 2014, and her daughter Julia Cannon took over her work. | ||
| I'm pretty sure that Julia was involved in maybe even running Ozark Mountain Publishing previous to that point, but I can't say for sure, because her LinkedIn page doesn't have any dates on it. | ||
| I assume Dolores was very old. | ||
| She was. | ||
| Something like that. | ||
| Yeah, but some of the videos that you can find pretty close to her passing were... | ||
| She's quite lucid. | ||
| Oh, no, I'm not saying that. | ||
| She's old. | ||
| You're 84 and your daughter is just going to run the day-to-day operations. | ||
| You still make some interviews. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I would assume so. | |
| You do that kind of thing. | ||
| Kevin has known both Dolores and her daughter Julia throughout his career in the paranormal community. | ||
| The first interview he had with Dolores was posted on his channel on December 3rd, 2011. | ||
| And he has interviews with Julia going back to 2013. | ||
| I was wondering about this because there seems to be a shift in the present. | ||
| He's doing these interviews with these time traveler people and now he's calling for we've got to call out the frauds in our community. | ||
| I was wondering if it's possible That there is anything to do with Julia. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| If he's had this patron over the years in the Ozark Mountain Publishing and he's doing what he's doing in partnership with them, then Dolores passes away, Julia comes around, and maybe she hates Carrie. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So Julia is officially a loose cannon. | ||
| I don't... | ||
| I like your pun, but no, that was just a thought that I had. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| And so what I wanted to do was I wanted to check in with an interview that he did with Julia. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| So I found this one here from July 26th, 2018. | ||
| This is mere months before he announces his Mark Richards documentary. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So I figured, like, if there's going to be some clues, you might think you'd find them in here. | ||
| And so in this first clip... | ||
| Kevin's talking to Julia, and I feel like he's asking her about what her mother would think about the state of the paranormal community. | ||
| Okay, okay. | ||
| You know, the era that your mum did most of her work, sort of, you know, well, it started off for, it was many years, but I was going to, let's actually move it to the era of the mid-2000s, right? | ||
| Maybe 2005. | ||
| I think, you know... | ||
| It was still pretty grounded information that was out there. | ||
| The UFO field was quite grounded. | ||
| This field was definitely a level that people could come to. | ||
| It wasn't too far out there in some ways. | ||
| My point is, right now, it just feels that our community is in a time of such division, of such extremes and of such... | ||
| Almost falling apart in some respects. | ||
| I wonder what mum would think of what was going on right now? | ||
| I think she would think it's just right on. | ||
| You know, this is how it's supposed to be. | ||
| And as it keeps growing, I mean, they showed me a long time ago that as it grows, I mean... | ||
| You know, for a while it's like this. | ||
| And they said, as the one keeps growing, it's going to grow like this. | ||
| So she's doing gestures with her hands of like, you think it's going to grow straight like a tree, like a trunk, but it's actually growing as two separate branches. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, okay. | |
| She has almost like a que sera, sera. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Attitude towards Kevin's being like, well, we've got all this bullshit going on. | ||
| Well, any movement that sufficiently grows is going to splinter off into a series of different groups is her basic. | ||
| Kind of thrust there, so if it's inevitable, why are you going to be worried about it? | ||
| Yeah, that doesn't feel like what you'd expect if my theory was to hold. | ||
| She doesn't seem to be bothered in the slightest by the fact that like, wow, there's this, but there's also this. | ||
| Yeah, and she didn't even end it with like, you know, it grows into different directions. | ||
| By the way, fuck Carrie Cassidy. | ||
| But over here on this branch is... | ||
| Yeah, that's weird. | ||
| So, Kevin tries to regroup a little bit here and reframe what he's asking about. | ||
| It's almost like, right, that you, you know, the UFO subjects with your mum and her work always connected to consciousness. | ||
| She was a very early pioneer in promoting that, right? | ||
| And that's exactly where a lot of the, you know, you ask, like, some very nuts and bolts like Stan Freeman now, right? | ||
| He'll say, absolutely, it's all about consciousness, right? | ||
| That's where the work's gone. | ||
| So now we've got the consciousness on one side, which is the field that I've loved for so long, the UFO field on the other side, which I've loved for so long, and there's a connection between them both, right? | ||
| But, as you said there, they've gone this far out. | ||
| When we've got secret space program whistleblowers coming out from all angles, and the stories that they're telling... | ||
| And the division in the community that that causes. | ||
| And there's also cult-like practices going on in this community as well right now, which is very sad to have to say. | ||
| I hate you. | ||
| I've just never seen it so divided. | ||
| Well, and I think that's another thing. | ||
| I just recently was watching. | ||
| A video, and they were just talking about how right now it's just when all the light is just shining. | ||
| See, this stuff has always been there, and it's just the light is just shining brighter and brighter. | ||
| It's just exposing all these things. | ||
| That's all it is. | ||
| And so as it's exposing, now we're just aware of it. | ||
| That's all it is. | ||
| So now it's choices. | ||
| Now what are you going to do about it? | ||
| You know, are you going to... | ||
| You're going to make judgments, you're going to condemn, and you're going to, you know, it's just exposing. | ||
| And now it's choices. | ||
| See, that's all being exposed, and now by media. | ||
| This is wonderful. | ||
|
unidentified
|
True. | |
| Now people know about it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because before they were all hidden and secret. | ||
| Now that can't be secret anymore. | ||
| She seems very zen. | ||
| I kind of like her vibe. | ||
| I'm liking her vibe. | ||
| I can't lie. | ||
| I came away from this liking Julia Cannon a bit. | ||
| I think she's doing alright. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, because Kevin's like, look at this bullshit. | |
| It's always been there. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There's just more ability to get information out. | |
| The light is shining on this and they can't hide certain things anymore. | ||
| And it's great that people are talking about it, but she does not seem motivated in any way to be like, crush these people. | ||
| There's no ruthlessness. | ||
| There's no vindictive element. | ||
| There's nothing. | ||
| It's just kind of like... | ||
| Yeah, now you get through life, there's more information, and then you have choices. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It's insane. | ||
| But that could be the new-agey version of a threat right there. | ||
| We have choices. | ||
| We have things that we can do now. | ||
| We have to choose to crush the dum-dums over there. | ||
| I think that that's a giant leap, but I don't think it's impossible. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| She almost has in my mind that, if you remember that Phil Hartman sketch on SNL where he was playing Reagan, and he was like, oh yes, hello little girl, and then she leaves and he's like, alright, back to work assholes! | ||
| Like that kind of thing. | ||
| Yeah, I understand that that image can come up in your head, but I would need, and I admittedly have not done like tons of research on Julia Cannon, but I would need A bit more information about her to be like, she's secretly like a... | ||
| I'm gonna go with the mastermind behind the whole thing. | ||
| Possibly. | ||
| So, Kevin gets to complaining some more, and Julia's diffusing it more. | ||
| When rubbish does come across our table, or... | ||
| Purposeful disinformation that people feel as though it's real, right? | ||
| And they're going along with it. | ||
| And it's like, where has people's discernment gone? | ||
| God, I hate that word. | ||
| It's almost like the conspiracy has infiltrated the spiritual a little bit. | ||
| That's how I feel. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Well, people have to just learn to, you know, you've got to think with your own mind and you've got to, you know, come on. | ||
| Don't just listen to everything that comes along. | ||
| That is what's going on, though. | ||
| As a person that's in this community right now, there are people gaining a lot of power in this field who are mixing the spiritual with conspiracy, which is fine, do what you want to do, but then as soon as you start to say, hang on a minute... | ||
| There's got to be discernment. | ||
| We're getting ungrounded here completely. | ||
| Then they're all turning against you as soon as you do that. | ||
| And it's like, wow. | ||
| It's probably worth noting that this conversation with Julia was posted to Kevin's YouTube page about two months after he had that interview with Carrie Cassidy where he tried to ask her about inconsistencies in Mark Richard's story and she got pretty mad at him. | ||
| When he's talking about people turning on you when you ask for better discernment, he's absolutely talking about that conversation. | ||
| Gotcha. | ||
| He's very clearly talking about Carrie. | ||
| Gotcha. | ||
| You know, he said, like, we've got these Secret Space Program whistleblowers. | ||
| Well, the Secret Space Program thing was a little bit too obvious. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| He's just complaining about Carrie Cassidy and Project Camelot, and Julia's response is like, well, people have got to think for themselves. | ||
| There's almost, and again, like, in the same way that Dolores had a maternal quality to Carrie, Julia has a bit of a maternal thing going on here with Kevin, or it's like... | ||
| Quit whining, you crying teenager. | ||
| You're going to grow older than this. | ||
| You're going to get past it. | ||
| You'll have some wisdom that'll come from recognizing that people have choices. | ||
| Sure, there's more information and they can take that information and make the choice that they need to make with it. | ||
| That's what they do. | ||
| We're in the open UFO community. | ||
| We don't bitch about people because we're all lying. | ||
| You're the worst. | ||
| He's the worst. | ||
| I hate him so much. | ||
| He's the worst. | ||
| He's a shitty interviewer. | ||
| Listening to him talk sucks. | ||
| Every time he tries to ask a question, he winds up asking four questions and then not being interested in the answer to any of them. | ||
| He's a good channeler, though. | ||
| I know that from the spirits that he channels, they have told me he's very good at it. | ||
| The spirits he channels have made it very clear how great at channeling he is. | ||
| So in this next clip, Kevin expresses shock that some of his audience is interested in Project Camelot, which I would say... | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I was shocked at where some of my audience was recently. | ||
| I did not know that myself and my audience were actually dividing so much in how we felt about things. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Well, then that might be an indicator right there. | ||
| You see there again, that's that light. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Just shine the light on it. | ||
| We'll see what happens. | ||
| And I'm going to do that. | ||
| My next documentary is going to not shock a lot. | ||
| Well, yeah, actually, probably will do, actually. | ||
| I've had to become a journalist now. | ||
| And if I'm unhappy with what's going on in my field, then I think I've got to do something about that myself and actually shine some light. | ||
| And help people see, not attack people, but help people see that, actually, let's look at the stories of some people. | ||
| And let's look at where the evidence is. | ||
| And I never thought I'd be going down that road. | ||
| So, I mean, there, I think you see that Kevin's deciding to be the change he wishes to see in the world. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Unfortunately. | ||
| Can't rely on anybody else to do this for me. | ||
| I gotta do it. | ||
| Nope, I gotta... | ||
| Yeah, but it still seems weirdly personal. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Is it just that she didn't like his questions, so now he's like, I'm going to fucking take her down then. | ||
| That's what I'm going to do. | ||
| I think it has to be, because he's interviewed her in the past. | ||
| He's interviewed Joanne Richards about Mark Richards in the past. | ||
| He has no standards that he upholds. | ||
| It was very recent to this. | ||
| That he talked to those time travelers. | ||
| So nothing about people putting misinformation out seems to bother him generally. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It has to just be personal, I think. | ||
| He just got annoyed with her and then he's going to... | ||
| God, he's the worst, Dan! | ||
| This is a petty grudge! | ||
| Maybe or maybe not. | ||
| Because I think in this next clip we get something that I think is crucial in terms of understanding what's going on here. | ||
| Unfortunately, these areas, like you said, they've just been prime, prime fields for, you know, for people to just come in and do all kinds of damage and junk in, you know, and just put all this stuff in so that they can mess with people. | ||
| Put so much fear in. | ||
| Oh, so much fear. | ||
| So much fear. | ||
| And it's just, that's not right. | ||
| You know, that... | ||
| And that's near and dear to my heart when people play with fear. | ||
| No, do you know what, Julia? | ||
| Let me just say something to you. | ||
| You've hit the nail on the head there. | ||
| That is it. | ||
| I'm going to use the word fear porn. | ||
| There is so much fear porn out there right now, right, in this field. | ||
| So I think that Julia, again, is nailing it in some sense. | ||
| She's saying, you know, what you're seeing is this world that we traffic in is... | ||
| It's been primed for people to be bad actors in it. | ||
| So, obviously, there's going to be some negative things. | ||
| And then they nail down that, like, ah, what it is is fear. | ||
| The fear is the bad thing. | ||
| They're creating fear in people in order to move whatever. | ||
| Yeah, she sounds wildly self-aware for somebody who believes that there are a lot of alien abductions going on and people can't remember them because they're drunk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Or can remember them because they're a little drunk. | |
| Yeah, I mean, you would assume that she believes the same stuff as Dolores, seeing as she's her daughter and she's carried on her work. | ||
| I mean, yeah, not necessarily that she's her daughter, but that she's still running the publishing company would suggest that, yeah. | ||
| And I believe that she also runs the Dolores Cannon hypnosis thing. | ||
| Okay, well then, yeah. | ||
| So, yeah, you'd have to assume there's overlap there. | ||
| And again, Kevin just really is trying to talk himself into this. | ||
| Like, he just can't do nothing. | ||
| He's psyching himself up and wants her to give him the go-ahead. | ||
| Yeah, almost like he's begging for approval. | ||
| I want to go out tonight. | ||
| Mom, can I go out tonight? | ||
| Can I go out tonight? | ||
| It's not so much permission as it is. | ||
| I mean, he started when they were talking about, like, what would your mom think of this? | ||
| It's almost like looking for the blessing of Dolores from beyond the grave. | ||
| But he can't just do nothing. | ||
| All I ever wanted was a truth, or a truth that was at least grounded in wanting to be giving people their power back. | ||
| But what's going on right now with this community? | ||
| It's not about taking sides. | ||
| It's now... | ||
| Something's got to... | ||
| You can't just sit there and do nothing. | ||
| Well, you can. | ||
| That's okay. | ||
| But I'm saying right now I'm not. | ||
| I'm not going to do that because the fear has got in and it's destroying a lot of the good work, I feel. | ||
| Good for you. | ||
| See, that's the Lightbringer in you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
See, you're casting that light. | |
| That's your job. | ||
| That's why you're here. | ||
| Well, I appreciate that. | ||
| So I guess he's got some approval. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He was called the Lightbringer, which definitely has no negative connotations towards that at all. | ||
| But this still doesn't feel like direction. | ||
| I can identify that obviously he's been in partnership with this company that's run by the Cannon family for over six years. | ||
| At least six years at this point. | ||
| But it doesn't feel like when he's talking about what he feels drawn to do, like I've got to expose the Project Camelot. | ||
| I don't feel like this would be what the interview would be like if there was an interest in that from the Cannons. | ||
| Which is weird. | ||
| So in this last clip here, Kevin teases his project, which we already know what it's going to turn into, but he feels like he can't talk about it yet. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And then he just thanks Julia for being supportive. | ||
| We never know where we're going to be guided, and it's just a matter of just follow the guidance. | ||
|
unidentified
|
If that's what's being asked to do, then there you go. | |
| Yes, yes, that is true. | ||
| Yep, and that's what I'm going to do. | ||
| I wish I could say more right now about what I'm working on. | ||
| But all I know is that when it's finished, it's going to be at least my first bit of light work to shine light on this subject. | ||
| That's what it will be. | ||
| Oh, I don't say it's a first. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You've been doing light work for a long time. | |
| Well, so have you. | ||
| So have you, not just me. | ||
| We all have. | ||
| I mean, this is what we are here for. | ||
| This is our journey. | ||
| Yes, it is. | ||
| It is. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| It just surprised me that sometimes light work takes many different forms. | ||
| Yes, it does. | ||
| And we're not even aware of it. | ||
| You know, that's just it. | ||
| We have to point it out to each other. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're doing it. | |
| Well, that's what I like about you, right? | ||
| I can get on here, right? | ||
| I can have a little bit of a moan and scream, right, about wherever we're at, yeah? | ||
| And you just kind of, you level it out a bit, do you know what I mean? | ||
| And you get that from your mum as well, I'm sure you do. | ||
| And that's nice to have in this community, that is. | ||
| Yeah, it is. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| That's weird. | ||
| Wow, that is weird? | ||
| I love her. | ||
| I love her. | ||
| She comes off quite well. | ||
| She is killing it. | ||
| So listening to this interview with Julia Cannon, I'm left with the impression that she and Ozark Mountain Publishing are not what's motivating Kevin to attack Carrie and Mark. | ||
| She doesn't seem overly interested in Kevin's new project, like interested in a polite way, you know, whatever, but not overly so. | ||
| And when he tries to complain about the schism in the UFO community, Julia tries to contextualize it by saying that's how it's supposed to be. | ||
| This is just what is. | ||
| This is a part of growth. | ||
| As humanity learns and grows, it encompasses many things, some good, some not as good. | ||
| It just doesn't feel like she's pulling any strings here. | ||
| This feels like it's entirely a Kevin thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| She sounds super benign and downright kind. | ||
| And de-escalating more than anything. | ||
| And I find that fascinating. | ||
| I entered this episode kind of thinking that we would look at this clear source of funding of Kevin's, this New Age self-help book publisher with a polar opposite view on the paranormal UFO world from Carrie's, and I would come away with the sense that they were behind this documentary as a crass business move. | ||
| But I don't feel that way now. | ||
| I think this is actually a thing that's ideological. | ||
| But we've been missing the forest for the trees when we were trying to figure out what the ideology was up till this point. | ||
| Before, I'd heard Kevin talk about how this misinformation in the community was, you know, he wanted better discernment. | ||
| I heard him talk about that stuff, and I interpreted it too literally. | ||
| I thought he was offended by people being full of shit, and that was what he wanted to push back against. | ||
| That's why it was absurd that he could present himself that way and then do an interview with the fake time travel people. | ||
| That's why it's comical that he would pretend to care about rigorous standards of proof while channeling aliens and off-world intelligences. | ||
| But I had it wrong. | ||
| It's about fear. | ||
| Kevin doesn't have a problem with the fact that Carrie can't prove a damn thing she says because he can't prove anything he says either. | ||
| It's not about research. | ||
| The issue is that Carrie and Project Camelot are using fear as the primary element of their content. | ||
| Whereas what rings true to him about the universe is messages of hope and love. | ||
| He comes from the Cannon School. | ||
| They've been his patron for years now, and obviously he looks up to Dolores quite a bit, even seemingly trying to ask for the daughter's blessing when he's embarking on this new project. | ||
| His ideological problem with Mark and Carrie is rooted in this dichotomy of stressing fear or stressing hope. | ||
| But he's being dishonest about that. | ||
| He's presenting things as being about how Carrie doesn't do her due diligence about the guest he has on, as he expresses in the video that he put out when he was explaining his purpose. | ||
| This is the first docu-series of its kind looking into frauds in the UFO and alternative communities that I represent as well. | ||
| Can't think of any other documentaries about frauds in the UFO community. | ||
| The damage that this does to the communities is not only is it damaging to credible researchers, but it's also damaging to people's awakening. | ||
| When people are trying to explore the idea that there's a greater reality, and when it's met with misinformation and disinformation, That's something that I can't stand. | ||
| So I've made it my calling right now, or part of my calling, to show the opposite side of some of these so-called whistleblowers. | ||
| So the way he's framing this is like exposing frauds in the community that do a disservice to legitimate researchers. | ||
| He presents it like that so much, but underneath it, I don't believe that's the case. | ||
| I think it's that he resents that they're not on the canon side of things. | ||
| Because he resonates more with the new agey stuff. | ||
| Whereas Carrie is more into the secret space program and the holographic medbeds and super soldiers of it all. | ||
| There are two sides of this thing. | ||
| Much like Julia was expressing, these two branches coming off the trunk as things grow. | ||
| As the community grows, obviously there's going to be these different offshoots. | ||
| And Kevin can't handle that. | ||
| He can't stand it. | ||
| He sensed rejection from that side of things for asking questions. | ||
| I don't think he's ideologically against it. | ||
| No, I think he is. | ||
| I think in the general sense, yes. | ||
| I don't think he is above disregarding his ideology if Gary likes him a lot. | ||
| Maybe. | ||
| I think his ideology kicks in real hard whenever somebody doesn't like him. | ||
| But if you take a closer examination of the videos that he puts out on his channel, you will see a massive erring on the side of these messages of hope. | ||
| These non-fear-based messages. | ||
| So it's clear that his body of work does lean towards that side. | ||
| There is a clear ideological distinction. | ||
| That is interesting. | ||
| You've reframed it. | ||
| Obviously, I took it mind-numbingly, literally, the idea of it's about research and shit like that. | ||
| And that's why it seems so incongruous. | ||
| That's how we would think about it. | ||
| Well, if you say you're trying to debunk things, and you are, then you have to, of course, look back at yourself and think, remove the splinter from your eye, etc. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But, man! | |
| That's fun. | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| But that's how you can present it as I'm exposing frauds and not get into the fact that you have no proof of anything you're talking about. | ||
| It's because what the exposure is really deep down on a visceral emotional level it's the they use fear I use hope. | ||
| More or less. | ||
| Now the other thing too is I mean you can't get away from it is there is clearly a personal thing here. | ||
| He has said in some of those things that we've covered, I'm going to make more documentaries in the future, but these ones about Carrie, Mark, and Simon Parks, they're more personal. | ||
| They're based in something that he's mad about. | ||
| I feel like I have a better understanding of where Kevin's coming from now, but I still think he's an asshole. | ||
| He explicitly said, when he's talking to Julia, that his concern is that there's fear porn and negativity dividing the UFO community, and it's not about consciousness enough, where he thinks that that's the root of all this stuff. | ||
| But then, when he's trying to sell his documentary, he's pushing it as an expose about frauds. | ||
| When he's talking to Julia, he says he's not attacking Carrie, or the Richardses, the Mark and Joanne, but in his promotional videos, he fucking taunts Joanne by threatening to expose details about her previous marriages. | ||
| This is bullshit. | ||
| You can't behave that way and pretend that you're like, I'm not going to go about attacking people and then attack them. | ||
| You can't pretend that this is about love and fear, the splitting of the UFO community, and then sell it as they don't vet their guests. | ||
| It's so dishonest. | ||
| Yeah, it is, but at the same time, I don't think you could actually be honest with Julia. | ||
| I don't think anybody could. | ||
| If Julia's talking to me, I'm going to be like, I'm going to say the nicest possible things that I can, and then deep down inside, I'm going to be filled with rage and hatred. | ||
| But to her, I'm going to be like, you know what? | ||
| You're absolutely right. | ||
| We should forgive everybody, and we should all do the stuff. | ||
| When I set out to do this, or this episode in particular, it was looking into that element of this that I think is... | ||
| Was a dangling thread. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Trying to figure out why Kevin did this. | ||
| And the question of, do you think it has anything to do with his sponsor? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And at the end of this, I feel pretty confident that this is not a follow-the-money situation. | ||
| I really do, too. | ||
| I think it's a Kevin Moore is an asshole situation. | ||
| Also, I feel like if I'm ever mad, I want to call Julia, and I'm sure she'll be able to talk me down. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| You can try and email her, see if you can get a consult. | ||
| See, that sounds like a great idea. | ||
| But Jordan, no matter what, no matter how many times Kevin wants to say that he wants good research in the UFO community, he's also a guy who runs a psychic hotline. | ||
| And with a straight-up face, a serious look on his face, did this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He doesn't need to change his voice. | |
| Or act in a different way. | ||
| Great. | ||
| So, do better research on that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's not a very good impressionist. | |
| He does a good Jack Nicholson. | ||
| Have you heard of Maurice LaMarche? | ||
| Once Jack Nicholson dies, we will channel him. | ||
| And you can't handle that channel. | ||
| I also don't do good voices. | ||
| I like that. | ||
| I think that's a good Nicholson. | ||
| So, anyway, I needed something that interested me a little bit to really get the juices going after that disappointing chunk of listening to Alex. | ||
| Gotta get out of the present day, do a little Wacky Wednesday thing. | ||
| And one of the things that was really sticking in my craw was that question of the... | ||
| The money and looking into that a little bit more. | ||
| And while I think it's fascinating that this is clearly an organization, the Ozark Mountain Publishing and Dolores Cannon, it's clearly an opposing worldview of the space nonsense weirdos. | ||
| And it's interesting that they have been funding Kevin for as long as they have. | ||
| But I don't know if that's related. | ||
| I don't think it is. | ||
| I still have no concrete answer as to why he's doing this that doesn't go back to ideological opposition of him being a part of that camp that is opposite to Project Camelot's camp and him being mad. | ||
| This is really good for me because in all of our Project Camelot excursions... | ||
| I really never even thought about the new-agey wing of that whole UFO community. | ||
| I've always been in this space of my viewpoint on that UFO community is there's a guy with a telescope. | ||
| That kind of thing has always been. | ||
| That's where it's always been in my mind. | ||
| So this is really interesting. | ||
| There's the new-agey side. | ||
| There's the hard sci-fi side, which you might like more. | ||
| The machines of it. | ||
| How does that UFO fly? | ||
| Well, actually... | ||
| What do you use? | ||
| A combustion engine? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, batter and anti-batter when you have 100% burn. | |
| That's not actually true. | ||
| They fly with their minds. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We all know that. | |
| Ah, damn it! | ||
| So, anyway, we'll be back on Friday with a non-space episode. | ||
| But until then, we have a website. | ||
| We do. | ||
| It's knowledgefight.com. | ||
| We're also on Twitter. | ||
| We are on Twitter. | ||
| It's at knowledge underscore fight and at go2bedjordan. | ||
| And on Facebook, we are. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We are. | |
| I did a Yoda there. | ||
| You did? | ||
| Baby Yoda. | ||
| And then if you would like to download the show, go to iTunes, share, tell other people, leave a review. | ||
| All that stuff I am told helps. | ||
| Yes, we'll be back. | ||
| But until then, I'm Neo, I'm Leo, I'm DZX Clark. | ||
| I do not have to change my voice. | ||
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your work. |