Today, Dan and Jordan take a look at Alex Jones' claim that he predicted the attacks of September 11th. Alex made his prediction in July of 2001, but is there more to this story than he is telling? As is always the case with Alex, it appears that there is.
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first-time caller. | ||
| I'm a huge fan. | ||
| I love your work. | ||
| I love you. | ||
| Hey, everybody. | ||
| Welcome back to Knowledge Fight. | ||
| I'm Dan. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm Jordan. | |
| We're a couple dudes like to sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. | ||
| Indeed we are. | ||
| Dan? | ||
| Hey. | ||
| Dan? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Did you ever get kicked out of class? | ||
| Yeah, oh, so many times. | ||
| So many times? | ||
| I mean, I dropped out of high school. | ||
| I got kicked out of... | ||
| Well, I know you dropped out of high school. | ||
| And not welcomed back to classes just for skipping so much, stuff like that, yeah. | ||
| Dropping out of high school is like getting kicked out of one big class. | ||
| It's not... | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I guess the one that I remember the most was there was a math class that I was in, I think, junior year of high school. | ||
| That was the year that I skipped most of. | ||
| And I had a teacher, Mr. Sharp, who was a real... | ||
| I mean, he's a math teacher in high school, so of course he's a bit of a dork. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And he had little catchphrases that he would use about math that he was teaching. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| He'd always talk about the reality piece of this. | ||
| Oh, boy. | ||
| When we look at the hypotenuse, you've got to understand the reality piece is that the length is based on the other lengths. | ||
| I don't know what the reality piece in that is supposed to signify. | ||
| It was his way of saying, like, this is what you need to focus on. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| I gotcha. | ||
| And I think I missed a bunch of days. | ||
| You're not going to pass this class if you don't come to class. | ||
| I was like, well, the reality piece is that I don't really care. | ||
| Get out. | ||
| Get out. | ||
| So that was one of them. | ||
| That was worth it. | ||
| You know what? | ||
| For a line like that, that's worth it. | ||
| That's worth dropping out of high school. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| Every bit of that, for that to be a real line that you said in the moment, worth it. | ||
| It felt pretty good. | ||
| I think it presaged my getting into stand-up comedy a little bit. | ||
| Something along those lines. | ||
| I don't know, man. | ||
| My high school career was just chock full of me being overly... | ||
| Gifted in many ways. | ||
| I could pass tests super easily, write essays on stuff I didn't really know much about, but then just be the worst student. | ||
| Just not coming and just... | ||
| What would you skip out and do? | ||
| I mostly laid in bed. | ||
| I was very depressed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, okay. | |
| Well, then that's fine. | ||
| I was super depressed. | ||
| Oh, no, no. | ||
| I skipped a... | ||
| I thought you were skipping out. | ||
| I wasn't a badass or anything. | ||
| No, no. | ||
| I guess you could get that image based on the way I was telling that story. | ||
| Yeah, it sounds like that. | ||
| And it's like, I skip class all the time. | ||
| I'm so fucking cool. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| There's mostly mental illness. | ||
| But it has the appearance of being cool or something. | ||
| See, that was my trick, man. | ||
| I would go to school and I would just sleep in class. | ||
| There you go. | ||
| What's the trick? | ||
| Dropped out of high school, did go to college. | ||
| Everything's cool. | ||
| I stayed in high school, went to college, never graduated. | ||
| Hey, look at us. | ||
| So who's the winner here? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Neither? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Both? | |
| Anyway. | ||
| The listeners. | ||
| Despite our educational backgrounds being very different, this is a podcast where I know a lot about Alex Jones. | ||
| And I only know what you tell me about Alex Jones. | ||
| That is correct. | ||
| And today we have an interesting episode to go over, something a little bit different that I got inspired to do. | ||
| We'll get into why exactly as we go along, but first, something else that inspires me. | ||
| You're not far off. | ||
| It can't be! | ||
| It's pretty close. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| But something else that inspires me is our listeners and our donors. | ||
| And I'd like to give a shout-out to a couple new people who have signed up to support the show. | ||
| First of all, Rosie, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, Rosie. | ||
| Thank you very much for taking time out of your very busy, riveting schedule. | ||
| You mean the schedule is riveting. | ||
| It is exciting. | ||
| It's exciting. | ||
| It's impossible to tear your attention away. | ||
| Indeed. | ||
| Next, Alexander, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, Alexander. | ||
| Thank you, Alexander. | ||
| Next. | ||
| Mark. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you, Mark. | ||
| Thanks, Mark. | ||
| John B. Are you going to make a sloop John B. joke? | ||
| Nope. | ||
| You're about to, aren't you? | ||
| I was not. | ||
| You're close. | ||
| I genuinely was not. | ||
| John B., thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| Thank you very much, John B. Sloop, sloop. | ||
| I knew it was coming. | ||
| Colin, thank you so much. | ||
| You are now a policy wonk. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
| And finally, today. | ||
| Jordan, we have to make right something that once went wrong. | ||
| We have to right a wrong? | ||
| We do, yes. | ||
| The way that I get these emails, sometimes things end up in the wrong folder. | ||
| Sometimes the emails that people have donated to the show, it ends up in my promotions tab in my Gmail. | ||
| Never should have updated. | ||
| But then also, another thing that happens is that if someone has an account that maybe someone else's name is on, that other person will get the shout-out. | ||
| Ooh. | ||
| And we made a mistake in the past. | ||
| Oh, shit. | ||
| And we need to correct that wrong. | ||
| So, Emma, thank you. | ||
| You're a policy wonk. | ||
| But in honor of our mistake, we are going to make you an honorary technocrat. | ||
| I'm a policy wonk. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Four stars. | |
| Go home to your mother and tell her you're brilliant. | ||
| Someone sodomite sent me a bucket of poop. | ||
| Daddy Shark. | ||
| Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. | ||
| Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean black accent. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's a loser little titty baby. | |
| I don't want to hate black people. | ||
| I renounce Jesus Christ! | ||
| Thank you so much, Emma. | ||
| Thank you very much. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| Mia Culpa. | ||
| What? | ||
| I don't understand. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't remember. | |
| I believe it's her husband's name. | ||
| Did we give a shout out to the wrong, Emma? | ||
| No, her husband's name was on the account, as I understand. | ||
| What is this, the 18th century where only the man is the one who controls the first ringstand? | ||
| Some patriarchal bullshit. | ||
| God damn it, Dan. | ||
| We're trying our best to make things right. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Anyway, if you'd like to support the show and what we do, you can go to our website, knowledgefight.com, click that button that says support the show, we would appreciate it. | ||
| Make sure you get your husband's permission first. | ||
| Hey, hey now. | ||
| So, Jordan, today I... | ||
| The reason I went down a little bit of a different road here with this is that on our last episode, Alex was really going hard about this idea of these hacked documents that prove 9-11. | ||
| Right. | ||
| We discussed how it's clearly a cyber extortion racket and that Alex is way off base on this. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No chance. | |
| And it's definitely not something he should be supporting, even if he supports... | ||
| The hypothetical content of those emails and insurance documents and stuff like that. | ||
| So I started to think about 9-11 and Alex Jones' ownership of the space. | ||
| Because that was another thing on that last episode. | ||
| A lot of the ideas of him trying to reclaim QAnon. | ||
| And so I was ruminating on that. | ||
| And I realized that we've talked about how he produced Loose Change, Final Cut, and what have you. | ||
| And he's been on the forefront of 9-11 conspiracy theory. | ||
| Since the event, quite frankly. | ||
| Yeah, day one. | ||
| And so what I wanted to do is I wanted to talk about how he claims that he predicted 9-11. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| And I want to go into that a little bit and try and assess exactly if we want to give him credit for that. | ||
| It's sort of up in the air a little bit. | ||
| Oh! | ||
| Oh, do you mean, are we going to give him credit for having actually applied analysis that... | ||
| I'm not sure even if that's how I would phrase it. | ||
| I'm going to say that we've just taken as read the idea that he predicted 9-11 because he says he did. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So, today we're going to start on July 25th, 2001. | ||
| When Alex got on air and did what he says is him predicting 9-11. | ||
| Oh, that was the date that he said that he's predicted. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| July 25th, 2001. | ||
| Here is from Alex Jones' mouth. | ||
| Hello, ladies and gentlemen. | ||
| I'm so glad that you could join us today for this Wednesday, July 25, 2001 broadcast. | ||
| Tyranny is enveloping the globe, and the United States is a shining jewel the globalists want to bring down, and they will use terrorism as the pretext to get it done. | ||
| So that's coming up in the second half of the show. | ||
| Very important information. | ||
| I'm going to put the call out that you call the White House. | ||
| And tell them, look, we've seen the news stories that you've wanted to blow things up, that you have blown things up, and that you're saying that four million of us are going to die and we need martial law and the Associated Press, and one of your little drills you had, and that we're aware of who the terrorists are if you pull this. | ||
| This can stop this Hitlerian Reichstag event. | ||
| I want to put the toll-free number up for Congress. | ||
| And I won't want you to believe Alex Jones. | ||
| I want you to go get these news stories off my website. | ||
| I want you to call these major newspapers. | ||
| I want you to find out these statements were true by the White House about preparing for martial law. | ||
| And I want you to let them know that if there is any terrorism, we know who to blame. | ||
| The point is, if any terrorism comes, it's from this government. | ||
| And if there was an outside threat like a bin Laden who was a known CIA asset in the 80s running the Mujahideen War and whose family builds all the military bases over in Saudi Arabia right now and sits on the board of Iridium Satellite, he's the boogeyman they need in this Orwellian phony system. | ||
| I want the White House numbers up there now. | ||
| A big part of this solution, after you research all the government terrorism and check out what I'm saying is true, call the White House and tell them, we know the government's planning terrorism. | ||
| We know Oklahoma City and World Trade Center was terrorism. | ||
| We know the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanted to blow up airliners, Baltimore Sun. | ||
| If you do it, we're going to blame you because we know who's up to it. | ||
| Or if you let some terrorist group do it, like the World Trade Center, we know who to blame. | ||
| And you could save the planet. | ||
| So that's most of the substance of him predicting 9-11 on July 25, 2001. | ||
| So we have some pieces in there. | ||
| He does bring up Osama bin Laden. | ||
| Indeed. | ||
| He does bring up the World Trade Center. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Of course. | |
| But you can tell clearly from context that he's talking about the 93 attack. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He's talking about that as an example of something that he thinks is fake. | ||
| And also, you can tell, like when he's talking about blowing up airplanes, he's not talking about that in a predictive capacity. | ||
| He's talking about a past event. | ||
| Yeah, he's talking about the Joint Chiefs of Staff wanting to blow up airplanes, not a future, the Joint Chiefs of Staff. | ||
| They're still, they still, well, in his defense, they may never have stopped wanting to blow up. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| So there is that. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| He doesn't say there is an end date on when they wanted to blow up. | ||
| I'm not going to take too much away from him because there are a lot of specifics in there, certainly. | ||
| Surprisingly. | ||
| Well, I mean, it's not specifics in terms of him saying this is going to happen, this is who's going to do it, this is where it's going to be, or anything like that. | ||
| But it's more substance than you generally would expect from Alex Jones. | ||
| You're missing it. | ||
| You didn't get it. | ||
| It's numerology. | ||
| Every word. | ||
| That he used either has nine letters or eleven letters. | ||
| That's interesting. | ||
| It's all in there. | ||
| It's supreme mathematics. | ||
| Yeah, it's incredible. | ||
| It is interesting that that is not the case. | ||
| But it is interesting to me that there's, you know, it sounds a lot just like any Alex show, quite frankly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And it just so happens to have been a bit before 9-11. | |
| That's kind of the feel I get in terms of like screaming about how the government, Uh-huh. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| It still would have made the exact same amount of sense. | ||
| He did do this episode 2003. | ||
| I'm certain that he did. | ||
| That's right, yeah, because of course he's going to say that Osama's going to attack again. | ||
| But he doesn't even crystal clearly say that. | ||
| No, he doesn't. | ||
| He's saying that Osama bin Laden is a boogeyman of some sort. | ||
| Which is only stronger after he commits the second attack on the World Trade Center. | ||
| Second. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That is also important to consider. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| So he also is comparing the idea of some terrorist attack that's to come as a Hitlerian Reichstag fire, which is an important thing to keep in mind as we go along. | ||
| So here's the interesting thing. | ||
| There's another guy in the conspiracy world, a gentleman by the name of Bill Cooper. | ||
| I don't know if you've ever heard of Bill Cooper. | ||
| I do not know anything about Bill Cooper. | ||
| Well, let me tell you a little bit. | ||
| I know a little bit about Derek Bill Cooper. | ||
| Who's that? | ||
| D.B. Cooper. | ||
| William Cooper, Bill Cooper, also first name Milton, but goes by Bill, William. | ||
| Good change. | ||
| Good change, dude. | ||
| Certainly. | ||
| He was a pioneer of the paranoid militia broadcasting world and is absolutely an early hero of Alex Jones'. | ||
| There's literally no way around that. | ||
| From January 1993 to the time of his death in November 2001, Bill Cooper distributed his own radio show, Hour of the Time, as a daily show, then later on a weekly basis. | ||
| He covered it all. | ||
| He dabbled in UFOs and mystery religions, but more importantly to the world we look at, he was also deeply interested in the idea of a one-world government being formed. | ||
| He was a staunch defender of Randy Weaver, the central figure at Ruby Ridge, and did frequent episodes about how Oklahoma City and Waco didn't go down the way the government said they did. | ||
| He covered the difference between gold and silver as hard money versus the idea of soft currency and paper money. | ||
| On a March 11, 1993 show, he did an episode about the intentional devaluation of the dollar. | ||
| He covered the Federal Reserve and how income taxes aren't real. | ||
| He railed on socialists and spread suspicion about the Council on Foreign Relations and Trilateral Commission as far back as 1993, when Alex was 19 years old and still years away from ever being on the radio. | ||
| On a February 18, 1994 episode, Bill Cooper interviewed Sheriff Richard Mack, a central figure of the constitutional sheriff movement, and someone who would go on to be a frequent guest on Alex's show in the future. | ||
| There are a lot of overlaps between guests, too, including Aaron Zellman, the president of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms, someone who was an early sponsor of Alex Jones's show. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's a mouthful. | ||
| They should shorten that. | ||
| I mean, it really gets to the point. | ||
| I mean, it does. | ||
| They're Jewish and they want to preserve the right to have guns. | ||
| How about Jews keep guns? | ||
| It's like cars for kids. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I don't know. | |
| It's got a better ring to it. | ||
| Might be too tight. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So... | |
| All this is to say that if you look spiritually at the stuff that Bill was putting out into the world, there's no way to think that Alex wasn't a big fan of his and probably was deeply inspired by him. | ||
| Was he a nationally syndicated guy or was he around the southern market? | ||
| He was a guy who had a shortwave show, but it would go around. | ||
| It made the rounds. | ||
| It was big. | ||
| It wasn't just some sort of local thing. | ||
| That's just what I wanted to be clear about. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| He was a very big deal. | ||
| He wrote a book called Behold a Pale Horse. | ||
| I don't know if this is true, but he says it, that it's the number one most underground distributed book in the world, in all of history. | ||
| Do they keep numbers on that? | ||
| There's no marketing and nothing really behind him or anything. | ||
| Is it possible to keep numbers on that? | ||
| It's a very, very popular book in these worlds. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay, so who's doing that census? | |
| Who's doing it? | ||
| What is it? | ||
| The New York Times number one ranked unregistered bestseller? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| They don't do one of those. | ||
| Sure, why not? | ||
| What is it? | ||
| Fucking e-book sales? | ||
| No, it's the 90s. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know how you quantify it, but it is a very huge book. | ||
| And here's the part where I should probably just come clean on a little bit of something. | ||
| And that is, I don't know a ton about Bill Cooper. | ||
| Does anybody? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I am going to learn a lot more of him in the future. | ||
| But as at press time... | ||
| I don't fucking know a whole lot about him. | ||
| I know some of his beliefs. | ||
| I know a lot of it matches up with Alex. | ||
| And then there's a lot of stuff that Alex pooh-poohs and tries to be like, no, absolutely not. | ||
| Like the UFO stuff. | ||
| Alex isn't into that. | ||
| Even though secretly he's super into that. | ||
| But Bill was into that. | ||
| Now granted, it seems over the course of his career that he pivoted more towards the militia and patriot type stuff. | ||
| As time went on, at the expense of his interest in UFOs. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Question. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Quick question. | |
| But also, Alex is a huge fan of, like, Coast to Coast and George Norrie and stuff like that. | ||
| And they talk about ghosts and aliens all day long. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| So it can't be a turnoff for him. | ||
| Anyway, that's my point. | ||
| He's like, I'm sure, I'm positive Alex loved his show. | ||
| When did Alex... | ||
|
unidentified
|
So this dude died in 2001. | |
| November 2001. | ||
| He got killed by the police. | ||
| He died in November 2001 and he was killed by the police? | ||
| Well, to be fair, he shot a cop in the head twice and then he got killed by the police. | ||
| Because he'd been living on the lam because he refused to pay his taxes and was charged with bank fraud. | ||
| And the police were like, we're not going to fucking fulfill that warrant because we're afraid of an armed standoff. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So the police, they decided to try and lure him out of his house with a loud car. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Candy? | |
| No, a loud car that he would come and tell people to be quiet, right? | ||
| That sort of thing. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| They wanted to lure him away from his house because they knew he had weapons caches there. | ||
| So they did that. | ||
| Was Wile E. Coyote running the SWAT team at the time? | ||
| They only did this because they'd gotten reports that he'd been threatening local residents with weapons. | ||
| Yeah, just his being around as a threat. | ||
| They'd gotten some complaints like, well, we've got to finally go through with this warrant. | ||
| So they do this. | ||
| He shows up at the car. | ||
| They announce themselves as police officers. | ||
| And he starts shooting at them. | ||
| So they end up killing him. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Which is not the best way for things to go down, but he had made it very clear that he didn't believe that he needed to be arrested for the tax evasion and bank fraud. | ||
| Of course not. | ||
| Capital letters. | ||
| And that he was totally right in all that. | ||
| Of course he is. | ||
| He has a gun. | ||
| And he had said that he's not going to be taken alive. | ||
| So he had already made it clear. | ||
| In an email to a friend not too long before it all went down, he had said, I'm going to take as many down with me as I can. | ||
| So they had every reason to suspect this is probably what's going to happen. | ||
| And the idea of letting him get to his house or something like that is a real no-no for the police. | ||
| So I never like it when the police kill anybody. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I kind of get it. | ||
| If you shoot a cop twice in the head, you're... | ||
| Who survived, as I understand. | ||
| Oh, that's nice! | ||
| Thank you! | ||
| But still, if you shoot... | ||
| That makes the story way better for me. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| So anyway, that happened in November 2001. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| See, the way that you described his radio career, it seemed more like he had died of natural causes because he was a precursor to Alex Jones, but apparently he was just like a sovereign citizen. | ||
| Like a regular sovereign... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Did he still work on the radio? | |
| There's no way you can keep your job with a warrant on you for tax evasion. | ||
| You can if you're doing shortwave and self... | ||
| And live on the lam. | ||
| Well, he wasn't living on the lam so much as he was in an uneasy truce with the police. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| They think this is going to be too much trouble to execute the warrant, and it's just a financial crime. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| So until he's a danger to people around there, then it almost doesn't make sense. | ||
| So, okay, now, alternate. | ||
| Alternate theory? | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| He, too, predicted the 9-11 attacks. | ||
| He did. | ||
| But he got it right on. | ||
| He said almost the same thing as Alex. | ||
| So, the government realized that in order to prop Alex up, who is an operative of the CIA and still is and has always been under government control, has controlled opposition. | ||
| That's why he's too nice to Israel, according to Stormfront. | ||
| The reason that they left Alex alive was to take over. | ||
| No. | ||
| For Bill Cooper's spot. | ||
| I understand. | ||
| And they killed Bill Cooper! | ||
| Two months after 9-11, Dan! | ||
| I understand where you're going with this, but that's just dumb. | ||
| The timeline matches up. | ||
| The timeline matches up, Dan. | ||
| I think the reality is both of them could have continued to exist doing whatever the fuck they're doing. | ||
| Did Alex kill Bill Cooper? | ||
| No, but some people have suggested that sort of thing, which is just that sort of unhinged, untethered criticism of Alex that I resent so much. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| There are people who are like, yeah, he's part of the system and he had them take out Bill Cooper so he could rise. | ||
| More or less what you're saying. | ||
| I was being extremely facetious. | ||
| I should have assumed that that conspiracy theory was alive and well. | ||
| There are some people who put that forth, which is really dumb. | ||
| So the reason that I'm bringing Bill Cooper into this, and admittedly, like I say, I don't know a ton about him I'm excited to learn more about him as we go along because spoiler alert, the entire archive of his radio show is available online. | ||
| I was just about to ask. | ||
| So he might become another Wacky Wednesday character. | ||
| I was just about to ask, and now I'm very excited for Bill Cooper. | ||
| And because all of his shows are online, we can know that on June 28, 2001... | ||
| No! | ||
|
unidentified
|
A month before Alex predicted 9-11 on his show... | |
| How dare you! | ||
| Bill Cooper went on his show, Hour of the Time. | ||
| The whole thing is a fraud! | ||
| After the anniversary... | ||
| Also, I don't know how he has the rights to play Kiss from a Rose, but I'm going to leave that aside for a second. | ||
| Shortwave. | ||
| ...of the Oklahoma City bombing. | ||
| We were bombarded with anti-patriot, anti-militia, anti-constitutionalists, that's people who believe in the Constitution for the United States of America. | ||
| Anti-American propaganda. | ||
| And then, when the execution of Timothy McVeigh occurred, once again, prior to, and immediately following, the same thing occurred again, and this word extremist was used over and over and over and over and over again. | ||
| And now we're being bombarded with messages that Osama bin Laden is planning to attack the United States of America. | ||
| And Israel. | ||
| And I'm telling you, be prepared for a major attack. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But it won't be Osama Bin Laden. | |
| It will be those behind the New World Order who once again want to take the guns and the freedom away from the American people because we're the only ones left in the world who can oppose The destruction of freedom in the world, and the implementation of a one-world totalitarian socialist government, and that is the goal. | ||
| So you have basically here him predicting much more specifically. | ||
| And way better, yeah. | ||
| More specifically, and also preemptively laying out the inside job false flag narrative already a month before Alex's supposed prediction. | ||
| New theory. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Alex. | ||
| Got his hands on the Sumerian ritual to steal a man's brain. | ||
| Immediately after this episode, he led Bill Cooper out into the forest, said the ancient rites, looked directly into his eyes and sucked out of his soul, right? | ||
| And that's why... | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| After 9-11, he lost his mind, and the whole thing makes perfect sense. | ||
| Spoiler alert, after 9-11, Bill Cooper didn't lose his mind, necessarily. | ||
| He lost a lot. | ||
| His actions, in terms of that standoff with the police... | ||
| Totally consistent. | ||
| Very much so. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's had several standouts. | |
| It's right in character. | ||
| You don't want to say that a man is comfortable with a Mexican standoff by experience, but he sounds like he would be. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So a little bit later in that same June 28, 2001 episode, you'll hear Bill lay out almost entirely what Alex's 9-11 narrative will end up being. | ||
| And you'll hear a little bit of a similar theme to Alex's... | ||
| months later prediction that he makes about 9-11. | ||
| Hitler could not have ever come to power, absolute power in Germany, without the Reichstag fire. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hitler was a socialist. | |
| He understood social illusion. | ||
| He understood social engineering. | ||
| He knew how to get the support of the German people, and he did it by burning down the Reichstag. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The Reichstag was, well, in our country, It would be the Capitol building that contains the Senate and the House of Representatives. | |
| So if somebody were to go and burn down the Capitol building today, they would use that as an excuse, as Hitler did, to round up all of the enemies of the New World Order, which would be me and most of you listening, and throw us into prison or execute us. | ||
| Declare martial law and come to absolute and total power in this country. | ||
| I wonder what Osama bin Laden's targets are supposed to be. | ||
| And if they don't, you know, if this doesn't materialize in the next two or three weeks, it will eventually materialize because they haven't succeeded in getting the guns. | ||
| Out of the hands of the American people, nor have they succeeded in taking our freedoms away. | ||
| In fact, there's been a great awakening in this country and a big backlash against these Marxist, communist, puke-faced, lying, subversive, Nazi, jackbooted, Gestapo thugs that is gaining momentum. | ||
| Where's Lionel at? | ||
| Did somebody steal his thesaurus, too? | ||
| Might have. | ||
| But you can see a little bit of Alex even there. | ||
| You can see a little bit of... | ||
| Minus a bit of the... | ||
| Bombast. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Or explosive showmanship, or whatever you want to call it. | ||
| You can see calling these people jackbooted... | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| There's a little bit of that. | ||
| And then the theme of they're doing these terrorist attacks in order to... | ||
| You know, bring in taking our guns away. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That sort of thing is just so central. | ||
| And even the idea that this anti-New World Order movement is gaining traction, and that's why they're going to have to do this in order to cut it off at the pass. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Or whatever. | ||
| That's so central to Alex's version of things that it's almost impossible to imagine that he didn't listen to this episode and then a month later crib it a little bit. | ||
| That is kind of my big theory in terms of these two instances from 2001 of very paranoid men quote-unquote predicting 9-11. | ||
| Okay, so two things. | ||
| One, I don't like that you've turned everything that I believed Alex Jones to be into a lie, because even his fucking origin stories are stolen now. | ||
| Totally. | ||
| Every one of them. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| He's dead to me. | ||
| Every little feather in his cap is pretty much... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's some lie behind everything. | ||
| You fucking find it! | ||
| You fucking find it! | ||
| You have... | ||
| Totally and completely dismantled this man's mythology. | ||
| Somewhat. | ||
| And I'd also like to give a shout-out to listener and buddy Prop Dew, who was very helpful in getting into a little bit of this stuff. | ||
| It would not be right of me to talk about a lot of this without giving a shout-out. | ||
| Fuck yeah, good work, man. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The other things. | ||
| One, I don't like that he had trouble reading constitutionalist. | ||
| That doesn't seem like a difficult word to read. | ||
| I think that was for dramatic effect. | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| I think that was struggling to read. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| Agree to disagree. | ||
| And two, he sounds super good at his job. | ||
| He is reasonable as fuck. | ||
| I was listening to him and I was like... | ||
| Alright. | ||
| Alright. | ||
| I see what you're saying, man. | ||
| I think if we listened to a lot more episodes, you'd have less of that. | ||
| See, now I want to find out if he's right about everything. | ||
| He's not. | ||
| Is he secretly right about everything? | ||
| I can say no. | ||
| He's not. | ||
| But there is an interesting trend that goes through a lot of episodes of his show where callers call in and ask him about something. | ||
| And he'll push back on them in sort of the reverse way that Alex does, which ends up being one of his chief complaints about Alex Jones later on, which is the idea that Alex just listens to rumor and reports it as truth. | ||
| So on his show, when someone calls in, let's say someone calls in and says that... | ||
| The Tennessee Department of Transportation is out on the streets or something like that. | ||
| He's not going to believe them. | ||
| Whereas Alex will then turn that into one of his stories. | ||
| So I don't believe that Bill Cooper knows a lot or is right about things. | ||
| What if he is? | ||
| No. | ||
| Okay, fine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But... | |
| He does have more of a measured approach to broadcasting, at least. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Which is why he was never going to become as successful as Alex. | ||
| Probably not. | ||
| And he was an older man already. | ||
| You know, there's other reasons why Alex would be... | ||
| The fact that he hadn't paid his taxes for a bunch of years. | ||
| That does hurt your abilities to syndicate, probably. | ||
| I would assume there's active warrants out for your arrest. | ||
| You probably can't go down to KJFK or KLBJ and start broadcasting. | ||
| Ted, I'm telling you... | ||
| Give me a job on your... | ||
| Dude, we're gonna have to... | ||
| I don't think he ever would've. | ||
| We're gonna have to garnish your wages before you start. | ||
| And also, turn you over to the cops! | ||
| We shouldn't be having this interview right now! | ||
| He would've been... | ||
| I could sell gold. | ||
| He would've been a perfect other-than-Alex person for Ted Anderson to get. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I think based on the... | ||
| Sort of just the reality of who he is and how, like, well, you're wanted. | ||
| I don't think you can... | ||
| I don't think you could do that if you're Ted. | ||
| See, now I'm... | ||
| He's the number one most best-selling underground author. | ||
| He's even more badass than Alex is. | ||
| So, there's a little bit of a beef between Alex Jones and Bill Cooper. | ||
| It exists within the Patriot Militia worlds, and all of their listeners know that. | ||
| So, this is really... | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| All right. | ||
| This is Drake. | ||
| This is Drake Cognac. | ||
| And this is more what I want to talk about because, as I've said repeatedly, I don't have a good grasp on Bill Cooper. | ||
| But I do have a grasp on Alex Jones. | ||
| And it's interesting to see this figure come into his world in such a demonstrable Alex is wrong kind of way. | ||
| In the sense that the first part is it looks pretty clear that Alex... | ||
| Number one, has to be a huge fan of the hour of the time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Second, he almost certainly stole that 9-11 prediction. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Now, at some point along the line, this has to be after Bill Cooper was dead, but I'm not sure exactly the year. | ||
| Alex gets a call about Bill asking about, what do you think about Bill Cooper? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let me ask you one thing. | |
| What did you think of Bill Cooper? | ||
| Well, Bill Cooper was an alcoholic, and I didn't ever try to attack him. | ||
| He got mad because the network put me on at night, and he thought, and I'd really, really never heard his show because I didn't listen to a lot of shortwave. | ||
| I was busy. | ||
| But I'd seen his book. | ||
| It was all about flying saucers, so I didn't finish it. | ||
| Somebody had given it to me on AXS TV like in 96. And then he really started attacking me in 98 because he was an egomaniac. | ||
| And, you know, talking about flying saucers in the ocean. | ||
| And aliens and all this stuff. | ||
| And I've tried to never attack him, but people resurrected old tapes he edited of me and stuff. | ||
| Okay, alright, now I'm interested. | ||
| Well, the alien stuff is fair criticism, or whatever. | ||
| I mean... | ||
| I haven't read all of his book or any, to know too much, but from what I understand, he believes that Eisenhower met with aliens and agreed to let them kidnap people and stuff like that. | ||
| Yeah, that was in a Futurama episode, and that sounds right. | ||
| So he's in that sort of camp, and so Alex is not too far off in terms of being like, guy was a little bit nuts. | ||
| Nah, that might be fair. | ||
| We haven't listened to a lot of him. | ||
| He has sounded correct on everything so far. | ||
| The editing clips together thing is in reference to Bill Cooper after the Y2K episode of Alex Jones'show cut together some instances of Alex being very out of line on Y2K, which we covered on, I think, our second episode, Alex's Behavior on Y2K. | ||
| And Alex takes great issue with the fact that Bill Cooper did episodes of his own show, Hour of Yeah. | ||
| Holy shit! | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wait, wait, so hold on! | ||
| So somehow Will Cooper is both the underlying inspiration for Alex Jones, his progenitor, if you will, and yet at the same time ours, too? | ||
| Yeah, it is weird that way, isn't it? | ||
| That is bananas! | ||
| Within the seed of his creation, so was the seed of his destruction, Dan! | ||
| It is interesting. | ||
| My working theory on it is that Alex Hero worshipped Bill Cooper to a great degree in terms of his position in the Patriot community, his militia stuff. | ||
| He sought to become Bill but greater or something like that. | ||
| Then they started to interact in some way and it went bad and Bill didn't like Alex and saw through his shit and that made Alex furious. | ||
| That's my theory. | ||
| So there's more to this call though. | ||
| I just feel sorry for Bill when he really let him set him up and ran out there and helped him kill him. | ||
| It's just a big distraction, sir. | ||
| I don't talk about flying saucers and all that stuff, man. | ||
| I'm sorry. | ||
| It's all like an ego thing, like it's two football teams and who's for who. | ||
| I'm sorry for Bill. | ||
| He was a liar, though. | ||
| One time I had him on the radio and he was cussing and I delayed him once. | ||
| Then I said, please don't cuss again. | ||
| I delayed him again. | ||
| I said, okay, thank you. | ||
| Bye-bye. | ||
| And then he went around saying he never cussed. | ||
| The guy cussed on air. | ||
| He cussed at everybody. | ||
| He was yelling at the board op going, you effing little idiot. | ||
| You know, I told you to call this number to effing have me on. | ||
| And then he says that he didn't, you know, the guy, he was a pathetic drunk. | ||
| And I don't like attacking people, but if you really want to know, that's it. | ||
| Is that your answer? | ||
| You like that answer? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Anything else, sir? | |
| I believe you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, I know you're putting out a lot of truth out there. | |
| Look, man, some dead drunk, and I drink a few beers too, but the point is he would get falling down drunk, okay? | ||
| And I was nice. | ||
| He said the IRS was after him and he needed help. | ||
| I call him up and I go, hey, this is Alex Jones. | ||
| I'd like to interview you and get you some help with the IRS. | ||
| And he goes, I've heard you, you little SHIT. | ||
| You don't know as much as I do. | ||
| And I said, well, I'd like to have you on and help you out with the IRS. | ||
| I mean, that's what I get for helping him, is him doing that, and then you call me seven years after he's dead and ask me about him? | ||
| It isn't about Bill Cooper, okay? | ||
| It's about NORTHCOM, the New World Order, get our heads screwed on straight, deal with the issues. | ||
| I ask callers to call in and talk about what we're going to do about what's coming down on us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Not a dead, alcoholic, crazy person. | |
| So that should give you some sort of indication of how triggered Alex is when anybody even just brings up the name Bill Cooper. | ||
| Alex's daddy issues are intense, varied. | ||
| And all across the board. | ||
| But don't you find that interesting? | ||
| Like, the caller just asked, what do you think of Bill Cooper? | ||
| This is a very different Dan de Grand Prix. | ||
| But he launches into that with no help from the caller. | ||
| The caller isn't like, I love Bill Cooper or anything like that. | ||
| And even halfway through, the caller's like, Alex, I believe you. | ||
| I trust you. | ||
| He's saying, oh, that's interesting. | ||
| I'm on your side. | ||
| And Alex is still defensive about it. | ||
| He hates it when anybody brings up Bill Cooper. | ||
| And the reason for that... | ||
| Is Alex is fucking totally lying. | ||
| Absolutely, categorically, totally lying. | ||
| Bill Cooper has been on Alex Jones' show exactly one time, in 1998. | ||
| So that's before the Y2K stuff. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And when he was on, it did not go the way Alex says it did. | ||
| Absolutely not. | ||
| There is no indication that he cusses at all. | ||
| He was on the radio for over 40 minutes, not including commercial breaks, so he was probably on an entire hour of Alex's show in 98, which might have been his whole show back then, quite frankly. | ||
| I don't know how long he was broadcasting back then. | ||
| But here is how the interview starts. | ||
| No shit! | ||
| You've got the interview? | ||
| Yep. | ||
| I'm so fucking excited. | ||
| What's going on, Mr. Cooper? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello. | |
| Yeah, that's one of my friends just called in. | ||
| He's got an Apache over his house with camera pods and infrared. | ||
| Taking film. | ||
|
unidentified
|
We're going to play that on our TV show. | |
| This is just wonderful. | ||
| We get followed around by unmarked police cars, openly taking 35mm photographs of us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's just wonderful, isn't it? | |
| So you see already, this is how he introduces him. | ||
| He says, how's it going, Bill? | ||
| Like, almost to give a sense of familiarity, friendliness. | ||
| And then he immediately starts launching into a way of trying to impress Bill. | ||
| Talking about how one of his callers who had just called in has a black helicopter over his house. | ||
| See, I'm just like you, Daddy! | ||
| There's a sense of that. | ||
| Well, it's just one other manifestation of the Nazi Gestapo police state which has taken over this country. | ||
| Again, I get on this program six days a week, and I know how you feel when I talk to you this week. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And I'm 24 years old. | |
| I'm ready to just say, screw it! | ||
| Because you've got these people cramming cheeseburgers in their mouths, and they love it! | ||
| I mean, does it ever anger you? | ||
| Well, of course it does. | ||
| What angers me most is the stupidity of the vast herd of American sheeple out there. | ||
| So also, Bill Cooper is one of the people who's most noted for popularizing the term sheeple. | ||
| So we've got him to thank for that. | ||
| Good for him! | ||
| It seems like the person who's more unhinged is Alex. | ||
| He's screaming about how mad he is, and then there's a long pause, and he's like, don't you ever get mad? | ||
| Almost as a way of trying to find the common bond. | ||
| Come on, man. | ||
| Trying to find that first means of connection. | ||
| They think they know something, and they don't even know what planet they're on to tell you the truth. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, they don't. | |
| Simple things like private banks print the money and enslave everyone. | ||
| simple things like Clinton's a transnational agent. | ||
| Well, your book, Behold a Pale Horse, is well known to almost everybody that has any know-how on any of these subjects. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You wrote that in 1988. | |
| So he's already plugging the book that he's claimed he hasn't read and barely knows anything about. | ||
| It's stupid. | ||
| It's about UFOs. | ||
| But he's saying anyone who knows anything knows about this book. | ||
| So he's already... | ||
| If you look at the actual document here, he's very clearly 100% lying about this interaction. | ||
| So he asked Bill, it was written in 1988, which would have been 10 years prior to this interview, and Alex's fact's a little wrong. | ||
| Well, actually, I wrote it over a period of years, beginning in the early 80s and continuing up into about 88. I finished it, I believe, in 89. And I may have added a couple of things in 1990, and then it was published in December of 1990. | ||
|
unidentified
|
December of 1990. | |
| Mm-hmm. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How many copies are out? | |
| I love you. | ||
| I have no idea. | ||
| It's been the number one underground bestseller of all time with no advertising whatsoever, and people sell it on the street corners in New York City. | ||
| Have my baby. | ||
| Oh, sorry. | ||
| I had to take it off the shelf in their New York City bookstore because, by their own admission, it's the most stolen book in their inventory. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The most stolen book in their inventory. | |
| Yes. | ||
| Well, I know people have got tons of them around here. | ||
| Why don't you tell people, sir, just basically an overview of what Behold a Pale Horse tells the public? | ||
| And now it's even more incredible that so much of what you've written has come true in the last eight years. | ||
| He is giving him prophetic status here at the end. | ||
| All these things you wrote about in this book that I'm later going to pretend I didn't read have come true. | ||
| This interview to me, knowing Alex as intimately as I do from his work... | ||
| I hear an insecure Alex. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| I hear an Alex who, in 98, wasn't the Alex of, you know, the mid to late 2000s. | ||
| You know, like, he's not the same broadcaster with the same status. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh-uh. | |
| And he knows that Bill Cooper, in the worlds that he wants to be a part of and fancies himself a part of, is a hero in that world. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He is totally... | ||
| Like, the way he's asking these questions, and you heard it twice. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When Bill said the date his book came out, he's like, December 1990. | ||
| Almost contemplative, reflective. | ||
| There's a sense of reverence to, like, minuscule details. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| And I think it's his way of covering not really knowing how to interview this guy that he likes a lot. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's the sense that I get. | ||
| It's exactly like... | ||
| And it's exactly like so many of the times we see Alex's daddy issues show up. | ||
| Like with the John Birch Society guy. | ||
| Like when he's talking to him, it's like this, oh, I'll give you whatever you want. | ||
| Please, please just give me some sort of fucking approval. | ||
| Give me a sign of approval. | ||
| And you could make the argument that, like Alex in the future, from that clip with the caller who asked about Bill Cooper, you could listen to that and you could say... | ||
| Well, that's not Alex being insecure and reverent. | ||
| That's him being uncomfortable talking to him because he has him there for pity. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| But that doesn't track with the way he's lauding him. | ||
| The way he's saying that your book, all these things have been proven true in the last eight years, keeps calling him sir, thank you for being here. | ||
| Just all of this. | ||
| He's supplicating. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| So we're not going to listen to much more of the interview itself because it's 40 minutes and it's mostly the two of them agreeing and more of that. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It doesn't serve our purposes too much to go over that interview. | ||
| If anyone wants, you can find it on YouTube. | ||
| You can find the whole thing. | ||
| What I heard from Bill, which was interesting based on what we know about them now, or what you've told me about them, is that... | ||
| He is giving those stock responses to... | ||
| He doesn't believe that there's a Black Hawk helicopter or an Apache helicopter. | ||
| He doesn't give a fuck. | ||
| He's just like, yeah, see, that's another example of government gone wild. | ||
| Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| I can't be a part of reinforcing this. | ||
| But I don't think that even comes from a place of distrusting Alex. | ||
| I think he has no idea who Alex is. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| I think that that's probably... | ||
| And I think you just hear a guy who's doing a radio interview. | ||
| Yeah, and he's playing... | ||
| I do respect you, and I certainly hope that the feds do back down. | ||
| Because I know that once a revolution does start in this country, and we've had a couple of them, that it's not going to be a pretty one. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And that's it. | |
| The whole thing starts, and I know that I'm on the list. | ||
| So at the beginning of that, he was talking about Bill's website. | ||
| Bill had given a plug for the website. | ||
| And actually, even before that, I cut that clip terribly. | ||
| Right before that, Alex was asking him to stay over another break. | ||
| So the idea of him kicking him off the air isn't true. | ||
| They'd already run over the time allotted for their interview, and he was asking him to stick around later, and Bill said, I'll stick around, but I've got to plug my website. | ||
| Daddy, I know you only get to stay for the weekend, but can't you stay one more day? | ||
| So Alex's claims from that discussion with the caller about Bill don't track with reality at all. | ||
| They absolutely don't. | ||
| He didn't start swearing. | ||
| Alex didn't kick him off the air. | ||
| None of that is true. | ||
| That is just Alex lying about someone who can't defend themselves now because they're dead. | ||
| That is 100% is what I believe. | ||
| I was really hoping for a repeat of the Don de Grand Prix. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| How do you feel about Bill Cooper? | ||
| Ah, he's dead now. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| All right. | ||
| Well, then you have a good time. | ||
| Good work. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| Good work, Alex. | ||
| So, interestingly, September 11th happens, and both of these gentlemen have put out their words. | ||
| Which one? | ||
| The 2001. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, okay. | |
| The 2001 one. | ||
| So, Bill Cooper ends up dying in November 2001. | ||
| But before he dies, on the 26th of September, 2001, he puts out an episode of Hour of the Time, titled, Alex Jones, Liar. | ||
| Jesus, this is cool. | ||
| Here is the first clip. | ||
| I am stoked. | ||
| You're listening to the Hour of the Time. | ||
| I'm William Cooper. | ||
| Good evening, folks. | ||
| Before we get started, I have to clear up a little discrepancy here. | ||
| Apparently the other night, or... | ||
| Within the last week, because I've been getting a lot of email about this, and I even received one telephone call. | ||
| Apparently somebody called the Alex Jones broadcast and asked him why he didn't have me on the air or asked him something about me. | ||
| Alex Jones said he had had me on the air once before, several years ago, and had to cut me off the air because of the foul language that I used. | ||
| So on the air tonight, I'm going to tell you, Alex Jones, you are a bold-faced, miserable, stinking, little, coward liar. | ||
| Now let me say that again so there's no mistake about it. | ||
| You can all tell Alex Jones that I said this, and I suspect he's listening because he does. | ||
| Alex Jones, you are a bold-faced, stinking, rotten, little, coward liar. | ||
| Get him. | ||
| Feels good. | ||
| Feels good to hear. | ||
| Man! | ||
| Wow! | ||
| There's a piece of this that I kind of decided to do this episode, partially because of Alex's weird 9-11 stuff last week, wanting to get into the prediction, but then I also really wanted to just take a sort of... | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| It's almost a walk, a little bit, for an episode of just, like, we get to end with Bill Cooper telling Alex Jones he's a big piece of shit liar. | ||
| He'd go fuck himself. | ||
| I am a huge fan of interrupting everything, and especially you, but fuck, this is fascinating. | ||
| I want to listen to all of this shit. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
| I thought I was being very jokey whenever I said that he both... | ||
| Was the precursor for Alex Jones' show and ours, but it is really right on. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well... | |
| 20 years ago, he was kicking ass doing what we're doing now, and nobody's had the ball since. | ||
| I hope that we get a review on iTunes that says, not since Bill Cooper has anyone taken Alex down so hard. | ||
| But it's not like every episode of his show was about exposing the bullshit of these people. | ||
| No, of course not. | ||
| Like, he has one episode here from the 13th of September. | ||
| Atomic Bomb Next. | ||
| I want to listen to that. | ||
| Let's just play that now. | ||
| And then Chemical and Biological Attack from October 9th. | ||
| He nailed it! | ||
| That one's about Syria. | ||
| There's a lot of, like... | ||
| Most of his show, it does appear that most of it is crazy conspiratorial nonsense. | ||
| Okay, here's a new game. | ||
| Just read off the titles and I will try and make a real world corollary so he sounds right. | ||
| Alright, here from September 11th. | ||
| New York Attack 9-11, number 8. You did 10 episodes about it. | ||
| I'm going to guess that he nailed that one. | ||
| Probably. | ||
| That was the eighth attack on New York. | ||
| Okay, yeah, here, let's try a better one. | ||
| Okay, all right. | ||
| Let's try this one. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Attack of the Ninja Owls from the 14th of February, 2001. | ||
| Now this presages the Owls of Gahool, the movie where- You're talking about the Guardians? | ||
| Yeah, the Guardians of whatever it is. | ||
| The Guardians, the Legend of the Owls of Gahool. | ||
| 11 for 11. Okay. | ||
| So, look. | ||
| I think I want to make this abundantly clear, and I think I have already. | ||
| I don't know a ton about Bill Cooper, and so nothing that I'm saying should in any way be interpreted as me signing off on anything he believes. | ||
| Everything I say should be said that I think Bill Cooper has been right about everything. | ||
| I'm certain that if I listen to a ton more of these episodes, I would find... | ||
| Tons of problems and probably incredibly latent anti-Semitism or overt anti-Semitism. | ||
| I was going to say, overt seems almost a lock. | ||
| And probably really scary, dangerous, patriot-type rhetoric. | ||
| I am certain of that. | ||
| In the same breath, I can say I'm interested in his interaction and intersection with the world that we cover vis-a-vis Alex Jones, being that he's clearly his inspiration. | ||
| And clearly it didn't work out for Alex, and that's pretty funny. | ||
| When did Carrie start broadcasting? | ||
| Carrie Cassidy? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's hard to tell. | ||
| Her YouTube channel probably starred in like 2010, but I think Project Camelot existed before that in some form, like a message board or something. | ||
| Do you mean that it started in November 2001 when the soul... | ||
| Of Bill Cooper was instead transported into the body of Carrie Cassidy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Carrie Cassidy was still trying to get films made back then. | |
| Bill Cooper is the progenitor of The Alex Jones Show, our show, and Project Camelot. | ||
| Carrie Cassidy is a fan of Alex Jones. | ||
| Goddammit, what is his theme song? | ||
| Because if it's... | ||
| William, William, William... | ||
| Alright. | ||
| You can hear his theme song. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Bye. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| It's basically that. | ||
| It's like an air raid siren and then a little... | ||
| Which I actually think is probably... | ||
| I mean, it's thematically right on. | ||
| It feels right. | ||
| Yeah, no. | ||
| But I'm also glad we don't have a theme song and just come into a drop. | ||
| I don't want to get too into the weeds with this because, like I said, I do have some very strong reasons to suspect that Bill Cooper is a dangerous lunatic. | ||
| And if only... | ||
| Oh, the fact that he shot a cop isn't enough for you? | ||
| That's a good indication. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You have some strong... | |
| That's a good indication. | ||
| There are a few strong... | ||
| There's a red flag of some kind! | ||
| I mean, like, his work and his... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I just don't know enough about it to be conversant in it. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| So this is one of these weird... | ||
| Like, I told you before we started the show, this is a weird place for me to be in because we're covering a topic that I admittedly don't have a good handle on. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, I only know as much as I know, and it's... | ||
| The world of Bill Cooper is a big world. | ||
| I know. | ||
| It's a huge world, and I only have a hold on a tiny piece of it. | ||
| And so I feel out of my depth and very insecure. | ||
| This is more of like a teaser episode for our next Timey Wimey Wednesday. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When we go and really dig into Bill Cooper. | ||
| And it's weird that we're... | ||
| Because this is gonna happen. | ||
| I'm gonna text you all the time. | ||
| I wanna know all about Bill Cooper and about how he was fucking right about everything, Dad. | ||
| We're gonna explore him more. | ||
| I'm absolutely certain of that. | ||
| But the other thing, too, is that it's weird that we're doing this on a Monday episode, but I should say that the 2009 stuff, one of the big reasons... | ||
| In addition to last week, Alex re-bringing up 9-11 and all that shit, the 2009 stuff has hit a snag. | ||
| There's some boring episodes. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| So, Bill has his episode that he put out about Alex Jones being a liar, and we're not nearly done listening to him call Alex Jones a liar. | ||
| Oh, yeah? | ||
| Here's another clip where he does, and he actually makes a very good criticism of Alex in terms of him being a sensationalist. | ||
| I was only on the Alex Jones show one time. | ||
| It was years ago. | ||
| When I didn't know who he was, when I didn't realize what a liar and a coward and a sensationalist bullshit artist that he is. | ||
| Bill's 12 for 12. He was on one little FM station down in Texas. | ||
| He wasn't on all the stuff that he's on now. | ||
| And I agreed to be on his broadcast. | ||
| That's when I was doing guest appearances on broadcast years ago. | ||
| I was not cut off. | ||
| I did not use any kind of foul language whatsoever. | ||
| He treated me very well. | ||
| Trax. | ||
| And I stayed on for the whole show. | ||
| Totally true. | ||
| Some of you in Texas know that that's true because you heard the broadcast and you taped it. | ||
| Later when I found out who Alex Jones was and what he was doing to the truth and how, what a cowardly liar. | ||
| And sensationalist, he really is. | ||
| This is really satisfying on a lot of levels. | ||
| After that, I have always refused to appear on his broadcast. | ||
| Absolutely refused to lend him any credibility whatsoever by appearing on his broadcast. | ||
| And that made him very angry. | ||
| I believe all of that. | ||
| Wow, that's 100% true. | ||
| Because Alex is a sensationalist. | ||
| He lies about everything. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Every part of that is 100% true. | |
| Yeah, absolutely. | ||
| And I totally believe that Alex kept contacting him. | ||
| Of course! | ||
| He should come back on the show. | ||
| And he's like, I don't think I want to be involved with you. | ||
| Look, like I said, Bill Cooper, probably wrong about just about everything. | ||
| But I do believe him when he says, Alex wanted me to come back on, and I said no. | ||
| Well, if you deny Alex three times before the cock crows, he insists that you said a bunch of profanity on his show. | ||
| That has always been written. | ||
| I think that you can get away with appearing on shows that you don't support a little bit. | ||
| Like, I have a weird line with that. | ||
| You know, that sort of idea. | ||
| Because I don't think you should crucify somebody from appearing on a show that asked them to be on that you don't, like... | ||
| No, your episode of Punk'd was weird. | ||
| I got it. | ||
| That was weird. | ||
| That was weird. | ||
| When I made Justin Timberlake cry. | ||
| It's the only reference I have for Punk'd. | ||
| But, like, the reason I'm thinking about this is, like, there's tons and tons of guests of Alex Jones' show who have been guests on Red Ice Radio, Red Ice TV, which is an outright white nationalist, white supremacist show. | ||
| I do think that probably some of them didn't know what it was and got asked to come on as, like, a... | ||
| It's a show. | ||
| There's some listeners. | ||
| Everybody's got to get a... | ||
| You know, you've got to fill your calendar. | ||
| I need to fill my calendar. | ||
| My calendar is empty. | ||
| If anybody's listening, who can fill my calendar? | ||
| You can blow it every now and again. | ||
| I think you could probably be like, I shouldn't have done that. | ||
| I'm not going to do it again. | ||
| And I think Bill Cooper's probably in that sort of realm. | ||
| He went on Alex's show, later realized, like, ah, shit, shouldn't have done that. | ||
| Well, can't redo the past. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Now, spoiler alert, John Rappaport's been on Red Ice four times. | ||
| Oh, boy. | ||
| He knows what they are doing. | ||
| Does he know? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| You don't show up on a show four times and not know the character of the show. | ||
| Listen, you hang up a picture if you're able to learn the character of a fucking show. | ||
| I'm not going to hold it against him. | ||
| Maybe he's just him. | ||
| I'm just saying, man. | ||
| I think he might be dead. | ||
| I'm just saying. | ||
| I think he's been dead for 15 years. | ||
| He's dead inside. | ||
| So, I believe all that. | ||
| I think that Bill is probably telling the truth about the idea that Alex wanted to back on, said no, and I do think that there's nothing terrible about it so far. | ||
| Based on what we know of Alex and how he reacts to situations, exactly what... | ||
| Exactly like what Bill Cooper describes. | ||
| Alex is acting like everything that Bill Cooper says was 100% correct. | ||
| It feels like. | ||
| Bill Cooper is saying all the things that we would have... | ||
| Just listening to Alex shit-talk him, I would have reverse-engineered like... | ||
| Oh, yeah, so he liked him, and then he spurned him, and then they decided that, and Alex created this lie in order to... | ||
| He can't defend himself now. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, and Bill Cooper... | ||
| And it turns out, from one of the clips we're going to hear right at the end of this thing here... | ||
| One of Bill's callers calls in and says that Infowars used to have the video up of that interview. | ||
| And they took it down. | ||
| It's implied that at some point it got taken down. | ||
| Oh, man. | ||
| So there is a decent chance that Alex was trying to bury this part of... | ||
| My theory that Bill Cooper is right about everything is on track. | ||
| Your theory can only go so far as he's right about Alex. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| That doesn't mean that he's right about other things. | ||
| About everything. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| That is a logical fallacy, buddy. | ||
| No, here's the way it works. | ||
| You're right about Alex, so I assume you're right about everything. | ||
| God, no. | ||
| Seriously, no. | ||
| You should have seen what I ate yesterday. | ||
| Oh, boy. | ||
| Goddamn. | ||
| So dumb. | ||
| Can of chili. | ||
| Anyway. | ||
| It was not right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Shouldn't have done it. | |
| I'll tell you who's never eaten a can of chili. | ||
| Bill! | ||
| Fucking Cooper! | ||
| Untrue. | ||
| Oh, no. | ||
| He's never eaten a can of chili. | ||
| Listen. | ||
| He makes his chili homemade. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Grows it in his backyard. | ||
| Takes a long time. | ||
| So, Alex, in his talk with the caller where he's lying about Bill, he says that Bill edited up videos of me, which I've already explained to you was about the Y2K stuff. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And in Bill's show where he's calling Alex Jones a liar and talking shit on him, he brings up why he did that. | ||
| I've also revealed him for the lying, sensationalist, bullshit artist that he is. | ||
| By every once in a while bringing to your attention the lies and the deceit and the rumors that he spreads over the airwaves that are not good for any of us. | ||
| And they're not good for the nation. | ||
| They are especially not good for militia and patriots. | ||
| The most disgusting broadcast he ever did was on New Year's Eve, the year 2000. | ||
| The New Year's Eve, 1999, bringing in the year 2000, in which he went completely out of his mind and claimed that Russia had launched intercontinental ballistic missiles with multiple warheads. | ||
| at the United States of America and actually panicked millions of people who were putting their children and their belongings in their cars and heading for the hills. | ||
| So right there, I want to pause really quick. | ||
| He has more to say. | ||
| But I think it's really important to point out that what Bill is taking issue with and why he was so personally offended by this is two-pronged. | ||
| One, it's Alex has no respect for the truth. | ||
| He's basing his operation and his behavior and his reportage entirely on rumors and conjecture and hearsay. | ||
| The second, which I think is more important, is that Bill recognizes that the things Alex says have an effect on the people who hear them. | ||
| He's taking very... | ||
| That's part of his negative consequence that he's describing of Alex's actions. | ||
| And I think that's super important. | ||
| Who the fuck is Bill Cooper? | ||
| I need to know way more about it. | ||
| It is interesting that he recognizes the responsibility of someone in a position like his or like Alex's. | ||
| That is, don't get people into a place of... | ||
| Of Tizzy unnecessarily or something like that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, this is bananas. | |
| I'm so confused. | ||
| Because there's consequences for the people who hear your lies. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| And that's an important human piece of this. | ||
| It often gets buried. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think we try and bring it up, but it often gets buried in terms of the... | ||
| Except for whenever people talk about Alex vis-a-vis getting Sandy Hook families harassed and stuff like that. | ||
| You hear those consequences then, but the human element of it is so... | ||
| It's not ignored, but it's very rarely made a big part of the problem, and it is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Bill is fascinating. | ||
| It sounds like he's got... | ||
| He's got a great radio voice, too. | ||
| It sounds a little bit like he's got Alex Jones' ideology in Dan Rather's voice. | ||
| It's like he's so calming in the way that he's saying that everybody is going to try and kill you. | ||
| Yeah, it is a little incongruous. | ||
| And it's unlike David Knight in that David Knight is just boring. | ||
| Yeah, Bill's not boring. | ||
| No, Bill is not boring. | ||
| Bill is soothing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's just like, and they're coming to murder you and your family. | |
| This is the news on the hour. | ||
| This is the hour of the time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It does go to show that being not boring is much different than having a boring delivery. | ||
| It's not always a one-to-one. | ||
| David Knight could be interesting, even with his fucking terrible delivery. | ||
| I don't think that could happen. | ||
| Get well soon, David. | ||
| Now, there's lots of things that can be said about me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Nobody needs to lie about me. | |
| Sometimes I am irritating. | ||
| Sometimes I absolutely will not suffer fools and am just as rude as I can be. | ||
| Nobody has to lie about me, Alex Jones. | ||
| So I suggest that the next time somebody calls your broadcast and asks them about me, you tell the truth. | ||
| There's lots of truth that you can tell about me. | ||
| But don't ever lie on me, buddy, because I'll chop you off at your ankles. | ||
| I will chew you up. | ||
| I will... | ||
| Spits you out for the lying, stinking, rotten little coward that you are. | ||
| I think he hits a lot of the main points. | ||
| Yeah, I'm gonna give him a slight... | ||
| Look, just some studio notes. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| You can leave the cutting the ankles part out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Eh. | |
| You were doing great. | ||
| You were doing great. | ||
| It is a little bit weak. | ||
| He already said bullshitter, so he can clearly cuss on his own show. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| So, like, cutting you off at the ankles is kind of like... | ||
| It's ungratifying as a threat. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, exactly. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| You're not wrong. | ||
| Either jump the threat way up, or just let the threat go. | ||
| You don't need it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, I mean, it's a little bit redundant, too, if I were giving other studio notes, the idea of, like, well, you just keep saying he's a liar. | ||
| I mean, it can never be said enough, quite frankly. | ||
| He is lying. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, what's interesting to me is that call that we heard from Alex. | ||
| Talking to the caller about Bill Cooper. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That was from like 2008, 2009. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Bill was dead by then. | ||
| Yeah, seven or eight years and Alex is still... | ||
| But in September of 2001, Bill put out this episode responding to a caller calling into Alex's show and Alex responding the exact same way. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So we do know that at least from 2001 onward, that's been Alex's sort of... | ||
| Rewriting of the interview that they did. | ||
| Alex holds a fucking grudge, man, because the 2008 or 2009 area was like, dude, you feel that fresh. | ||
| Those wounds are fresh. | ||
| But I think it's because it highlights something that's so important about his own self-mythology. | ||
| That he's a giant fraud and he knows it? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then also that he is a coward Bill Cooper. | ||
| And I don't mean to say that Bill is admirable or anything. | ||
| No. | ||
| No. | ||
| I mean, but he is someone who clearly was willing to stand on whatever principles, no matter how dumb or backward they were. | ||
| Like, he shot a fucking cop and got killed. | ||
| Rather than own up to the fact that he's got to pay taxes. | ||
| That's not a good thing, but if you look at a propagandist, like an anti-tax propagandist, if you're going that far, you have your principle. | ||
| You have the integrity, good or bad, of whatever it is you present yourself as believing in. | ||
| And with Alex, he has none of that. | ||
| Every time that we've talked about Alex waffling and changing his position and all of those things, and we've said... | ||
| According to your own principles, you should be against this. | ||
| Bill Cooper would just be against it. | ||
| Like, it seems like Bill Cooper did not give a fuck about anything other than believing that the government was coming to kill him. | ||
| And aliens are somehow in play. | ||
| Yeah, it seems more like Bill Cooper was not so much ideologically consistent as he was fucking crazy. | ||
| He was crazy consistent. | ||
| And consistent to the craziness. | ||
| And consistently crazy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It does appear that way. | ||
| Again, not being an expert on him, it's hard for me to say with too much certainty, but the sense that you get is that there is a through line through it, and he wasn't deviating from that for a fucking second. | ||
| And that he did the clip show, as opposed to just doing the beef. | ||
| So that's the thing that gets me as far as the con man, non-con man level. | ||
| The con men recognize that the beef is fine. | ||
| But they don't do specifics about each other. | ||
| They don't say, I'm going to do a clip show where I prove you wrong. | ||
| Even when Alex was doing the... | ||
| Well, when Alex was shitting all over the bed doing the Glenn Beck expose, he still didn't have anything. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| But Bill fucking did it, man. | ||
| He went straight for the con man's balls by using his own words against him. | ||
| And another aspect, too, is that he sells books and all that stuff. | ||
| But at least episodes that I've listened to, and I've listened to a number of them, not nearly enough, but I've listened to a number of them, and he doesn't ask for money, really. | ||
| Like, the con isn't there in terms of Bill. | ||
| And there's even a call that I heard where this guy was talking about how he doesn't have a lot of money, but when he does, he's going to send Bill some so he can have all the airtime that he needs, that sort of thing. | ||
| And Bill's response is to laugh at him. | ||
| Like, not meanly, but just like, ha ha, all right, well, thank you, that's nice of you, or something like that. | ||
| It doesn't seem like he's motivated by the same... | ||
| Like, granted, he is a con man in terms of, like, getting you to believe things that aren't true for his own enrichment, but he doesn't seem to be primarily... | ||
| I want to know more about Bill Cooper. | ||
| This dude is a fucking... | ||
| This might have been a mistake of an episode. | ||
| Dude, no! | ||
| I think it opens up... | ||
| Hell no! | ||
| It might open up way too big of a vista. | ||
| You know, like, I think that the horizon is too large for us. | ||
| What's the name of this show? | ||
| It's called Hour of the Time. | ||
| All right, well, we did this podcast about Alex Jones. | ||
| We finished. | ||
| And it was Knowledge Fight. | ||
| Alright, so now we just move to Bill Cooper and it's what? | ||
| The week of the nows. | ||
| It's simple. | ||
| We're rebranding, Dan. | ||
| Bill Cooper only interests me really in as much as he is sort of a prototype and a precursor to Alex. | ||
| And someone who seems to believe it much more than Alex. | ||
| And Alex was able to use a lot of what... | ||
| Bill stood for in a lot of the world that Bill was in as the window dressing and camouflage for him to sell Ted Anderson's gold and all the other scams that he's been pulling over the years. | ||
| I think he's interested from that approach, and I do want to cover him more, but less as like, let's just talk Bill Cooper for a bit. | ||
| Oh, no, of course not. | ||
| I was being facetious. | ||
| I understand. | ||
| But I want the audience to know, I'm interested in learning a ton about him, but... | ||
| Only to enrich our understanding of early Alex Jones. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because his shows from 98 are available. | ||
| Alex's aren't. | ||
| Like, a lot of that stuff you can't find on the internet. | ||
| And man, I've been trying to track down VHSs. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And a lot of emails have been returned. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| No idea. | ||
| I can't find these early days Alex Jones episodes super easily. | ||
| There's very few resources to find them. | ||
| And if anybody out there has any tips, please let me know. | ||
| But this does give a window into what that world was like on a day-to-day basis through this radio show that clearly Alex had to have been listening to. | ||
| What it is that formed him into what he would become. | ||
| Well, the thing that I think Bill Cooper makes abundantly clear is The logical end point for an Alex Jones-style propagandist who actually believes what they're saying. | ||
| The logical end point for an Alex Jones that believes what he's saying is to be murdered by the cops. | ||
| Like, that's the reality of it. | ||
| Simply by his continued existence, we can surmise that Alex Jones doesn't believe a goddamn thing that he's saying because we have a case study and somebody who does believe what they're saying... | ||
| Fucking getting... | ||
| Killing himself by cop! | ||
| I'm gonna push back on that just a tiny bit because it didn't have to go that way. | ||
| Of course it didn't! | ||
| No, because Bill could have continued doing exactly what he was doing if he wasn't threatening locals with guns and stuff like that. | ||
| It wasn't just his presence that threatened them. | ||
| He was going around and harassing people. | ||
| And Alex doesn't do that? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Fair. | ||
| Fair point. | ||
| But also, even if Alex were doing that, he doesn't have an outstanding warrant for bank fraud and tax evasion that the cops could act on. | ||
| It would have to be a new motion for them to arrest him. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Bill Cooper didn't have to commit suicide by cop. | ||
| He didn't have to go that route. | ||
| It's not the logical end point of propagandists like this who believe the things they do. | ||
| It's a logical endpoint of a propagandist who believes this sort of stuff and also likes to threaten people with guns. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fair. | |
| That's the piece of it. | ||
| Fair point. | ||
| I don't want to give him any credence for his death. | ||
| It being like, well, we are saying that it's like, well, you believed it enough to get there. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, that part's true. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But what really precipitated it is him being a fucking asshole. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And also shooting the cops. | ||
| He could have gone peacefully. | ||
| Right, but Alex's narrative all the time is like, if the cops come for your guns, you need to be prepared to kill the cops. | ||
| We just saw that on a present day episode. | ||
| Yeah, he does believe that. | ||
| And it's also stolen from Bill. | ||
| Because Bill did it! | ||
| Yep. | ||
| God, it's so weird to see the parallels between so many underground comedians and musicians who... | ||
| Everybody's like, oh, they should have been more... | ||
| Oh, Mudhoney should have been way bigger than Nirvana. | ||
| That whole thing. | ||
| They're the underground. | ||
| The Meat Puppets should have been way bigger. | ||
| Bill Cooper should have been way bigger than your shit Alex Jones. | ||
| Well, but here's the problem. | ||
| And I think that this is one of the reasons why this is a difficult episode for me to do, is like a lot of people who are listening to this are in the know. | ||
| And they know exactly how huge Bill Cooper is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then there's a lot of people who listen who are like you, who have no idea who he is. | ||
| No clue who Bill Cooper is. | ||
| So there's an interesting line to walk in terms of this show where we're giving an introduction sort of to this as another topic that will come up over the course of our podcast. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And that might be unsatisfying to the people who are... | ||
| It's insanely satisfying! | ||
|
unidentified
|
...metaphorical... | |
| Mudhoney fans or whatever. | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Because... | |
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| No, I get what you're saying. | ||
| Because what you're expressing isn't true. | ||
| Like, the idea of, like, why wasn't Bill Cooper bigger? | ||
| He was huge. | ||
| He was very big. | ||
| But... | ||
| I think the answer to that is obviously he committed suicide by a cop. | ||
| That's probably one of the reasons he wasn't bigger. | ||
| Well, that hurt his lingering appeal. | ||
| You know, like, couldn't put out new stuff after that. | ||
| Yeah, it's tough. | ||
|
unidentified
|
But... | |
| He's not a minor variable. | ||
| He is someone who was very important to this world of conspiracy and propaganda and malicious stuff. | ||
| So, it... | ||
| I don't... | ||
| I get it. | ||
| You want a hammer. | ||
| You want to bring a button. | ||
| You want to put a button in this. | ||
| I don't. | ||
| No, I have another clip. | ||
| I'm so... | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Never mind. | |
| I thought you were sounding like you were wrapping up and you were unsatisfied. | ||
| No, I wasn't. | ||
| No, it's not that. | ||
| I was... | ||
| It's all just like what I've been expressing this entire time and what I said before the show. | ||
| It's, I don't know a ton. | ||
| I'm gonna learn more. | ||
| But as we're doing this show, this episode, it's not to give, like, here's Bill Cooper! | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| It's a, here's an interesting incident from Alex's career. | ||
| Two incidents, actually. | ||
| The 9-11 prediction incident and then the lying about the interview with Bill Cooper. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so... | ||
| No, you're furious that you're conversant and not a PhD in the subject of Bill Cooper and talking about him. | ||
| It's a bit of that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I just have to make peace with that, and I will. | ||
| It'll happen. | ||
| But we have one last thing here, and that is we already know that Alex was lying to his caller about what happened with the Bill interview. | ||
| But in this next clip... | ||
| Does Bill say fill your hand first, too? | ||
| What else is Alex stealing from Bill? | ||
| The list is probably... | ||
| Where's Nank? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, Bill didn't kill Nank. | |
| On Bill's show, where he's talking about how Alex Jones is a liar, which, again, we don't need a backup to prove it is the case. | ||
| Bill takes some calls, and they all have his back. | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
| Yeah, hi, Mr. Cooper. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Listen, that Alex Jones interview was directly after you published the Baratoss June 26, 1998 issue about the Cooper family being targeted by the feds. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I heard it. | ||
| Yeah, back in 1994. | ||
| Did he kick me off the air? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, he's a liar, and you've pointed it out, and I heard that interview, and you were nothing but cordial. | |
| Yeah, well, that's the truth. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's the truth. | |
| Thank you. | ||
| I even like his callers. | ||
| Alex Jones is a miserable, rotten, little, stinking, cowardly, bold-faced liar. | ||
| Boy, you know. | ||
| All of these people ought to know better than to mess with me, because I don't take any crap from anybody. | ||
| And if I'm not afraid of the whole machinations of the entire government gestapo, what in the hell makes Alex Jones think that I would ever be afraid of his cowardly little rotten butt? | ||
| Good evening. | ||
| You're on the air. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, Bill. | |
| I just wanted to let you know, verify what you said about that Alex Jones interview. | ||
| They had it archived on the internet at one time, and I did hear that interview, and there was nothing wrong with what you did. | ||
| And I wasn't thrown off the air, was I? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Not a bit. | |
| No. | ||
| And it's the only interview I ever did with Alex Jones. | ||
| As soon as I found out what he was doing and who he really was, he's called me back at least a hundred times since then, and I've always told him to take a hike. | ||
| So anyway, thank you. | ||
| You bet. | ||
| I appreciate that. | ||
| The interesting thing here that we have to wrestle with is that Bill is right. | ||
| He's 100% right in this circumstance. | ||
| About everything. | ||
| Always. | ||
| UFOs are real. | ||
| About Alex. | ||
| But he's also probably... | ||
| I think he's probably worse than Alex in terms of being really extreme. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| The banality of evil. | ||
| The banality of Alex. | ||
| There's an impotence to Alex. | ||
| There's a small cross-section of his audience that will end up doing terrible things, but most of them will just get lulled into a learned helplessness and buy his products and stuff like that. | ||
| It's the nature of the scam. | ||
| Good for them. | ||
| I think that people who listen to Bill Cooper regularly are probably much more dangerous. | ||
| Oh yeah, for sure. | ||
| Which is why they're so much more serious and focused and like, when they're talking about a subject, they're directly talking about it and then when they're done talking about it, they're done. | ||
| You know, like how a fucking serial killer is goddamn organized and ready to get shit done. | ||
| Alex Jones, Prince Humperdinck in The Princess Bride. | ||
| Bill is Christopher Guest, the torturer in The Princess Bride. | ||
| Christopher Kest doesn't give a fuck. | ||
| He's just going to do what he's going to do. | ||
| You're not going to try and relate this to Twilight? | ||
| We can't do that. | ||
| Apparently, I think I read in the group that everybody was out. | ||
| It was 50-50. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know how to... | ||
| You're right. | ||
| Earlier, I don't know how to put a button on this, and there is no button. | ||
| This is just kind of an interesting snapshot that ideally we'll build on more as time goes on. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But it's a snapshot worth looking at, even without grander context, because... | ||
| We now understand a little bit better where Alex gets these ideas that he predicted 9-11 from, which is worth it on its own. | ||
| And then beyond that, we get to hear someone call Alex a fucking lying piece of shit, which is always fun. | ||
| This is third season we're introducing a new villain, Dan. | ||
| We're fucking nailing this. | ||
| Of course, your first episode, you're not going to get closure on it, Dan. | ||
| This is a season-long arc. | ||
| Or not. | ||
| We could abandon it tomorrow. | ||
| So, I don't know. | ||
| We'll learn more about Bill Cooper as time goes on. | ||
| I'll probably go ahead and read Behold a Pale Horse. | ||
| I know I've read parts of it in the past, but I'll go ahead and jump down that fucking chimney and see what's inside. | ||
| Yeah, like somebody hijacking a plane, stealing $500,000 and jumping off of it. | ||
| You're going to jump in. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Both feet. | ||
| Derek. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| Derek Bill Cooper. | ||
| Anyway, we'll be back on Wednesday. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Unlike our friend Derek Bill Cooper, who has disappeared. | ||
| RIP. | ||
| We will not see him again. | ||
| Get well soon, David Knight. | ||
| So, until then, we have a website, knowledgefight.com. | ||
| We do! | ||
| We have a Twitter at underscore knowledge underscore fight underscore Bill Cooper. | ||
| Get rid of a bunch of that, and then you got it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| We're also on Facebook! | ||
| Indeed! | ||
| We got a group called Go Home and Tell Your Mother You're Brilliant! | ||
| Correct. | ||
| Also, we're on iTunes. | ||
| We are on iTunes. | ||
| Check that out. | ||
| Have some fun over there. | ||
| Holy shit! | ||
| Do you know what's crazy? | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| Do you know who technically didn't kill a guy? | ||
| Well, just because he didn't technically kill that cop, I don't know if we can say he didn't kill a guy. | ||
| That's true. | ||
| But in one specific instance, he really tried hard to kill a guy and wound up not doing it. | ||
| Yeah, it does seem that way. | ||
| Whereas Alex, who technically probably didn't mean to kill a guy, wound up doing it. | ||
| Andy in Kansas, you're on the air. | ||
| Thanks for holding. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Hello, Alex. | |
| I'm a first time caller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm a huge fan. | |
| I love your work. |