Knowledge Fight - #184: Godly Particles and Illiteracy

July 25, 2018 - Knowledge Fight

02:50:44

#184: Godly Particles and Illiteracy

# xenotransplantation will_smith valley_of_the_sun alex_jones anasazi antichrist apache_tribes arizona biblical_scholarship book_of_enoch carrie_cassidy carter_page cern cernanos chimeras chris_putnam conspiracy_theory fisa_warrant four_corners higgs_boson i_am_legend jim_bakker knowledge_fight large_hadron_collider lhc mark_of_the_beast native_american_portals nephilim pillar_of_the_boatman project_camelot prosperity_gospel religion_and_pseudohistory satanic_communion satire_and_media_critique science_and_misinterpretation sedona septuagint shiva_statue steve_quayle therion tom_horn tower_of_babel

Dan Friesen and Jordan Holmes dissect Jim Bakker’s 2015 claims linking CERN’s Large Hadron Collider to biblical prophecies, like the "Tower of Babel" or "Godly Particles," while debunking his misuse of quantum physics and pseudepigrapha such as the Book of Enoch. They mock Tom Horn’s absurd theories—including "satanic communion" via Antichrist chimeras—and expose his conflation of science fiction with literal prophecy, like Will Smith’s I Am Legend. Bakker’s pivot from theology to a $200K sink fund reveals his financial desperation, while Horn’s misattributed Septuagint translation highlights their shared disregard for scholarship. Ultimately, the episode exposes how fringe propagandists weaponize ignorance, blending entertainment and pseudohistory to exploit religious fears. [Automatically generated summary]
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Participants

Main

dan friesen

01:33:38

jim bakker

05:56

jordan holmes

46:26

tom horn

12:50

Appearances

chris putnam

02:11

Large

Audio Only |

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Show episode speakers

Speaker	Time	Text
unidentified		Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
		Thanks for holding.
		Hello, Alex.
		I'm a first Tim Collar.
		I'm a huge fan.
		I love your work.
		I love you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hey, everybody.
		Welcome back to Knowledge Fight.
		I'm Dan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm Jordan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We're a couple of dudes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like to sit around, drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, we are, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Although it's not so much novelty beverages at this point, it seems like Loganitis is in strong rotation.
unidentified		You know, I'm running out.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		When we go to the liquor store, I've pretty much picked out just about every novelty beer and drink that I can find there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We've been doing the show.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You've gone through all the novelty IPAs for sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You definitely veer that direction.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, you get a novelty wheat beer and you're in for some hurt.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It could be some weird fruit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, and then you're going to mess with coriander.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's going to fuck you up.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Nobody has time for that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		I highly recommend avoiding novelty wheat beers.
		That's just my advice.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		End up with some fuck around and get a white rascal.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No chance.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Uh-uh.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Uh-uh.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So that was a great opening bit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I suppose.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, this show is where I know a lot about Alex Jones.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And I only know what you tell me about Alex Jones.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And it's not only about Alex Jones, it's about all sorts of other things.
		Very difficult to explain show.
		If you're jumping in here, sorry.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sorry.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's evolved into all con men everywhere.
		We will find you and you know talk about you.
		Yeah, for a while.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So today, Jordan, we're going to be doing a time traveling episode of sorts.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Hey!
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Last episode, we gave a shout-out to a listener, Jonathan, who got in touch with me, and he had a very good request, an interesting request.
		I'm very mad at him for giving me this request because it took me down more rabbit holes than I needed to go down.
		Okay.
		I complained about this to you already.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You have been bitching at me about this for a while now.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So now one time to blame him.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's not his fault.
		I appreciate it on the other level because I got to learn a number of things that are a lot of fun and get introduced to some folks that I wouldn't have otherwise.
		But I wanted to say that I'm putting together a book to keep track of everything much more completely, much more of like a to-do list sort of thing, trying to organize my life and my business.
		Right.
		And so I wanted to take a second to recognize that this is a time travel episode, but there are others that are coming.
		Some of them are coming because I and they haven't been done because I keep forgetting, and that's my bad.
unidentified		All right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm working on it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We will make everything.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is our new opening bit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You apologizing for all the stuff that you haven't done.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a little bit of that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We've been doing that quite frequently recently.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But then there's another element to it.
		And there's one time travel episode that I've been putting off a little bit.
		And not for not wanting to do it, but I've realized that I can't do it.
		And I'll explain it.
		No need to beat around the bush about why.
		So listener Jim, who came and visited, we had some drinks.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It was a delightful time.
		He requested, I believe he requested his birthday.
		And then it turned out being the episode that I found from his birthday was when Benjamin Netanyahu came to the United States.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And it's complicated because Alex is in a state where he's like pro-Israel, but also pro-sovereignty.
		He's in a weird bubble state, and it's difficult to sort of get into.
		But I realize why I've been putting that off is because when we're in 2009 and we are looking at him be very pro-Palestinian and fairly anti-the state of Israel, I don't think jumping forward to that point when he's going to say pro-Israel things is necessarily all that interesting for our path through this.
		I'd like to get to that episode where Netanyahu comes to America eventually.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Organically.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, not necessarily organically, but I think that it does all of us much more in terms of understanding and learning to watch him pivot towards being pro-Israel and anti-Palestinian.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because we know that's the end result eventually.
		Yeah, of course.
		So I think it's difficult for me to get myself to do that episode because I want to watch him change as opposed to see him post-change and then go back and watch him change.
		Yes.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I see what you're saying.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like from a structure of our show standpoint, it feels weird.
		So this is my way of saying an apology to Jim, but that time travel episode might be two years from now.
		It might not be.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Anyways, if you'd like to speed it up, you can bump your donation up.
unidentified		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's not what I'm saying.
		If he has another suggestion, you should feel free to tell me.
		And it's not because I'm dodging talking about Israel or any of that shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's just from a narrative storytelling structure.
		I think it blows our 2009 shit a little bit.
		Yeah, yeah.
		So, and also, if you have one that you think I've forgotten about, which is entirely might be possible.
		Or if you haven't donated on that level and you want to try and trick me, you're also very welcome to send me an email and I will start putting together my to-do list and get everything in order.
		We'll be rocking and rolling, as they said, back in the old 50s or something.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Is that what they said in the old 50s?
unidentified		The old 50s.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The old 50s.
		So, Jordan, today we have a time travel episode that is not an Alex Jones-based time travel episode.
		Okay.
		This is an instance where Jonathan actually got in touch with me and was one of the inspirations and sort of motivations for me to bring Jim Baker into our fold.
		Okay.
		As it were.
		He sent me a message about how he was right in line with the con man stuff.
		And I was like, oh, of course he is.
		I've been meaning to get a look at him.
		Let's do it.
		I very much appreciate it.
		And he had an instance of the Jim Baker show.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The day before he went to jail.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think those archives are up.
		Oh, okay.
		This is from May, I believe it's 7th through 10th.
		No, 8th through 10th?
		I'm not sure.
unidentified		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Whatever.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Those few days in 2015.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's my birthday.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hey, happy birthday.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Hey!
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is a time traveler for you, me too.
		Hey!
		It's three days, but you know what Jim Baker does is he just records it all and then puts it out in chunks.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I did not know that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Why would I know that?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I just assumed that you would think that.
unidentified		What?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Why would you know that?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's a crazy thing to know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He and Lori sit down on Grace Street with their guest, and they probably record something to the tune of like four hours of them talking shit.
		And then he cuts it up in.
		Well, he doesn't.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		His children do.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		His staff cuts it up into chunks, and then he releases it throughout the week as if it was multiple different.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like one-hour segments.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Okay, okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Which is smart.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It maximizes we should fucking do that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, that's how they film Family Feud and shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You bang out like eight episodes in a day, you got the whole week.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Meanwhile, idiots like us sit down for three hours and then put that out and then put out another two-hour episode.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You know, it's called time-consuming and maximizing effort while minimizing profit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Isn't that how that works?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Very dumb.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We're not good.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We need a production crew.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Or a bunch of teens.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Or a bunch of teens.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Damn it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We got there first.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So, Jordan, here is an out-of-context drop from today's show.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Netflix is a fulfillment of prophecy from me.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Me too.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You know, there was no, when he said Netflix and paused, I was like, there's no good way that this ends.
		It's going to be the devil.
		It's going to be awful.
		It's going to be sucking the life out of our children.
		I did not see it coming as his own prophecy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It is a fulfillment of prophecy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Of his prophecy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		My prophecy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		His prophecy specifically.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		How come he wasn't on the ground floor then, huh?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think he was in prison.
		No, he wasn't.
		That timeline doesn't match up.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because he's not wanted.
		That's why.
		No one wants him.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Dead or alive?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Ah, man.
		Steel horse that guy rides.
		That's a train.
		So, Jordan, we're going to get into this.
		There's going to be a lot of science.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Wait, the steel horse is a train?
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I always thought it was a motorcycle.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It could be.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I always, now, motorcycles aren't made of steel.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know that's stupid.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I always agree.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Are trains made of steel?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What are trains made of?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're made of steel.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I read Ayn Rand.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		So further roads.
		For real.
		What is Goldbullia?
		Anyways, continue.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's a soup.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's a stock.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's a stock?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay, good.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's like a rich people's, like they put gold flakes on top of your dough.
unidentified		Absolutely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, same thing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I got it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So today, we're going over this, and we're going to sort of treat it as one episode.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't really matter where the breaks are from the days or anything.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Because it's essentially one episode.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so we just don't have to listen to the intro three times, but we will listen to it once.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is a Christmas special.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's hard not to feel happy when that music saccharin diabetes-inducing bullshit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because it slides in with that chime flourish.
unidentified		And then it's so fucking close to Dancing Queen.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's so close to Dancing Queens.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's a junior high musical soundtrack.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's sickeningly close to Dancing Queen.
unidentified		She's a praying queen She does seven sub.
		There are seals in the Bible.
		Welcome to the Baker Show coming to you from the village of Morningside.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Which kid is this?
unidentified		Suggested in the beautiful Ozark Mountains.
		Today, Jim's special guest, Tom Horn and Chris Putnam.
		I'm Kevin Shorey of the Morningside Band and Singers.
		And now, direct from Gray Street at Morningside, here are your hosts, Jim and Lori Baker.
		Oh, no.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because it's the lead singer of the band.
		Sir, sir.
		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sir, have some restraint.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Act like you've been there before, sir.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Isn't it great how it's never the same introducer?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's the kids or the guy who's leading the band.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What are they off?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Do they have weekends?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I can't speak to that, but I do know that the table is a little crowded.
		There are people who I don't know who they are sitting at the.
		That's not entirely true because I do now know the de facto co-host, who's not Laurie, this guy named Zach, who he's around a lot.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Ah, Zach.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's not Alex's secret source.
unidentified		All right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		When was the last time he was on the show, though?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Was he in a different...
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He should have done that for like 25 minutes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's entirely possible that Zach's been hiding out in Morningview.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That would be the perfect place to hide.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Very safe.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No one would see you coming.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Everyone's armed.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Everyone's fucking armed.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All the teen employees have guns and haven't masturbated.
		Nope.
		So here's how the show starts.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They have jerked off their guns quite a bit, though.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Undoubtedly.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Hello, welcome to Quay Street.
unidentified		Hi there.
unidentified		Or should I say to CERN?
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		We are sitting right now in the middle of the large head-run collider.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		This is the last funniest machine man ever built.
unidentified		That's right.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		And it's amazing.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		The scientists are looking for God.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Whatever happened to church.
unidentified		That's right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It was disproved.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So this show is going to have a lot to do with CERN.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's good.
		I like CERN.
		There's a lot of interesting research going on.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm banking, and I will say that a lot of the research that I did has nothing to do with CERN because I was banking on you knowing a bit about it.
unidentified		I know quite a bit about it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I know enough.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I know enough to know, number one, not looking for God.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I like the Large Hadron Collider immensely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's fantastic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Some of their other colliders that no one seems to be scared of.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There's the one under tons of them.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		Well, yeah, but it's not that big.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's so much other technological research that they've done.
		Like, the organization's existed since 1952.
		Like, it's not like this.
		Yeah, but you're nodding really dismissively at me.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		Well, hold on.
		Up until this point, we weren't able to generate, we weren't able to fire protons and the like with enough speed to actually measure the effects, measure the particles that could be created there.
		Right, right.
		So that is why we built up that.
		That's why people built up that fake, you know, like, what if it creates a black hole?
		As if that was a thing.
		Like, it's fascinating.
		It's really fascinating.
		I would look into it.
		There's also another one, not necessarily the same thing as the Collider, but it's also being built in fuck, fuck, fuck.
		Why can't I remember any of this shit?
		Anyways, all kinds of cool shit happens there.
		And not just research into the Higgs boson, which was kind of and not kind of discovered.
		It was a really fascinating thing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		In 2013, two years before this episode.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Exactly.
		But the fascinating thing about that is that it wasn't confirmed that the Higgs boson was what we thought it would be in the standard model.
		It was kind of.
		It's a very fascinating thing.
		They thought it was going to come in at a certain wavelength in one way that would disprove it, that would disprove the standard model, or another way that would perfectly prove it.
		And instead, it kind of came in the middle, and everybody's like, fuck!
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's wackadoo shit.
unidentified		Wow.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Anyways, you're just, I mean, you sound like a recording of these guys.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're going to get all into that.
unidentified		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're going to talk about crazy nonsense.
unidentified		Awesome.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm excited.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I really want to dig into the science here.
unidentified		All right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, you should know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Because the question really becomes: when do we get into string theory and how far away?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's not the question.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's not?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The question is, what are those fucking scientists up to?
unidentified		This is a very, very important book.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		On the path of the immortals.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Now, that sounds intriguing right there.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Does it also sound like a Jedi Mind Tricks album title or something like that?
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		But I think we're on the same path that they are at the collider.
		They want to make contact with the Immortals.
		We're kind of warning that the Earth is going to make contact with them, and it's not going to be pretty.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What?
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		Wow.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		We've got some amazing stories today.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Amazing news as well.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We get amazing stories.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Amazing news, Jimmy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There we go.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I mean, what more could you ask for?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So, there's no.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So, scientists are looking for the immortals.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's the name of the book.
		But what they're actually doing, you see, is that they're trying to create some sort of a connection where they can communicate with or open up a portal to another dimension.
		That's what he's saying.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's what he's saying.
		Yes.
		Well, first off, based on his voice alone.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is Tom Horn here.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Tom Horn?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He sounds bananas.
		How does a human being make those sounds out of his mouth?
		Listen to his voice again.
		It is disgusting.
		It grates, and it's gross.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's really fucking shitty of you.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's petty.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Some would say that your voice is grating.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I think it absolutely is.
		I think it absolutely is.
		And it's annoying.
		And I accept that.
		And I allow it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think my voice has a droning baritone.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, your voice is spectacular, and I could listen to it for days.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So I think you're being a little bit petty about.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I know it's not a physical characteristic, but you know it does come from the jowls, probably.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He probably has some jowls, doesn't he, Dan?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Look, no matter what you say about his voice or anything like that, you can't argue that he has a grasp on the science.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Listen to this.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Some scientists are afraid of what they're doing.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, certainly.
		I mean, you know, as these programs are playing on television, this thing will be revving up to the most powerful experiments ever conducted on the face of the earth.
		They are literally going to accelerate hundreds of millions of protons inside of the tubes that you can see there behind us to just beneath the speed of light.
		Then they're going to compress them down to a human hair's width, and they're going to collide as many as 600 million particles per second.
		This has never happened on Earth before, unless maybe it was when God spoke and brought all these particles together the first time around.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		A human hair's width, man.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're going to compress protons down to a human hair's width.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		How many protons does he think goes into a human hair's width?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
		Well, probably like one-sixth of a proton or something like that.
		Six hairs equals one proton.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		All right, so six hairs equals one.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Wait, six protons equal one hair.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, you've got to compress the proton down to a hair's length.
unidentified		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		A hair's width.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is crazy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So is that like the EU standard of measurement?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Because you know we use inches.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's imperial measurements.
unidentified		Okay, okay.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Good, good.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I want to make sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		A hair's width is actually just down-home European slang for six protons.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The size of a quark.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So is he talking about the up quarks or the down quarks?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure.
		I don't think he knows the difference.
		All right.
		Look, I'm not going to trust somebody who uses that as a measurement that they're going to compress protons that have been collided down to hundreds of millions of protons.
		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		In a hair's width.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's like almost 2,000 angels dancing on a pen.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's still treating it as one out of time.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He's still treating it as one out of time.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		One particle at a time.
		One particle.
		Boom, boom.
		Hundreds of millions of times.
		I don't know, man.
		Look, the issue is that they've got a grasp on the science.
		Don't fucking worry about it.
		These are scholars that are talking to Jim Baker about it.
		But Jim is coming at it from a really different perspective.
		He doesn't really know that much.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		But how can we ignore?
		I mean, we have it on the stage right here, Zach.
		Here's the pictures in your face.
		This is a machine that man has built to try to find out who is God, where is God?
		Is God alive?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Not why it was built.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		They wanted to find the God particle.
unidentified		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Very different thing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He thinks it's literal.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you guys called it the God particle.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Jim Baker thinks it's literally like particle particles.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They're looking to find God.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What is God?
		Who is God?
		Those are not questions that scientists are all that concerned with, I don't believe.
unidentified		Nah, not really their bag.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Would you do the audience a solid and explain the importance of the Higgs boson?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, the idea is we don't know why gravity.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Or matter.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we don't know why matter is graphic.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Is gravity a particle?
		Is it a characteristic?
		Is there something that endows things with matter, with gravity, with all of this stuff?
		We don't actually know why it happens.
		And every time we look into it, it only gets more obfuscating.
		And every time you do more experiments, they almost seem to contradict each other half the time.
		And then you've got the standard model, which predicts what we think we're going to find.
		And that, for the most part, makes perfect sense right up until you get to things like dark matter and things that we just can't measure.
		We have no idea how to measure.
		So what they're really looking for is some sort of confirmation of the standard model or some other model, something that points to the standard model being wrong.
		And then we start getting into wild shit like string theory.
		All along we start getting into crazy stuff.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All I'm hearing here is they're trying to figure out if God is angry or not.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's what I hear.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Are they making God angry?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Probably.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's certainly the argument that's going to be put forth here on this Jim Baker.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Because if you start learning how to get gravity going, then maybe we can create gravity.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And if we can create gravity, what do we even need God for?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, now you're starting to sound like Jim Baker's paranoid fantasy fears, which is never the best thing in the world.
		Never great.
		Although I think it's probably very consistent that you would embody that which Jim Baker would be afraid of.
		I think that's probably...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That does sound like me.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Man, but speaking to things that they're afraid of, there's one aspect of CERN that they cannot stop talking about.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sweden?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's not Sweden.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		The Shiva deity that they've got right outside the main offices there, right?
		That's what it does.
		It does the cosmic dance that discombubulates the world and the atomic nebulates.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Look at that.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Shiva, is that that name?
unidentified		That's right.
		And what Tom just said, I want to reiterate that point.
		Right outside.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Powerful stuff already.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		That's not knocked me off my chair, guys.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You need to gain some weight.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		This is the scientist.
		Okay, well, it's not scientists who don't believe many times in religion.
		Why would they have a God?
		Put the God back on the screen, Mondo.
		There's the God Shiva outside the doors of this machine.
		Why would he be there, Tom?
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, the government of India actually gave that as a gift to CERN because they already were working with CERN.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		But what's inscribed on the plaque beneath it is equally important.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Fuck Christ.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		It is called Oh Omnipresent.
		This is the replacement of Jehovah.
		There's the picture, but there's the...
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		There is no other God.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		That's, well, they think there is.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Bull, those idiots.
		Get a hold of those guys.
		She's got a bunch of arms.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		No way.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They keep coming back to that over and over again, sort of like, this is a false God.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, all right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		All right, guys.
unidentified		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So it was a gift from the government of India, the state of India, because they were an associate country with working on CERN.
		I just want to just read this.
		Writing about the statue, Alden Randall Conde, a postdoc student working at CERN, wrote, quote, in the light of day, when CERN is teeming with life, Shiva seems playful, reminding us that the universe is constantly shaking things up, making itself remaking itself and is never static.
		But by night, when we have more time to contemplate the deeper questions, Shiva literally casts a long shadow over our work, a bit like the shadows on Plato's cave.
		Shiva reminds me that when we still don't know the answer to one of the biggest questions presented by the universe, and that every time we collide the beams, we must take the cosmic balance sheet into account.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So I'm going to say, real quick, nerd.
		And number two, look at what it's like whenever you hear somebody who's intelligent talk.
		Isn't that amazing?
		Listen to those words and then compare them with.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Even when I stumbled over a couple of them.
unidentified		Compare them with, they're trying to kill God.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is the false Jehovah.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		This is the devil.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They're trying to replace Jehovah.
		Hold on.
		There is only one God.
		Excuse me, sir.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also, physicist Frit Javkapra further explained in the Tao of Physics, quote, the dance of Shiva symbolizes the basis of all existence.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		At the same time, Shiva reminds us that the manifold forms in the world are not fundamental, but illusory and ever-changing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I need you to stop using words like manifold and illusory.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		If we've got Jim Baker listening, he does not understand those words.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Modern physics has shown that the rhythm of creation and destruction is not only manifest in the turn of the seasons and in the birth of death, birth and death of all living creatures, but also in the very essence of inorganic matter.
		So there's a lot of very nice poetic ways that you can work in the idea of the dance of Shiva into just everything.
		And you don't have to do it religiously.
		You can just do it poetically.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Also, those guys know who Shiva is.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And these guys are like, this he is out here trying to replace Jehovah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And you're like, you do not know anything about Shiva, do you, sir?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And Jim keeps saying, that God.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So that's something.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That got over there.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So Chris Putnam, I said rest in peace during the when he was introduced to the.
unidentified		Is he dead or is he just never going to show up on Jim Baker's show?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, he tragically passed, I think he was only like 51, died surprisingly.
		I was trying to figure that out.
		What I could glean, I would guess it was a heart attack or something like that.
		He died last year.
		And, you know, I don't take any enjoyment in that.
		That's very sad.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		At the same time, I also don't think it's that tragic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hey, he had a family.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So he has not spoken yet, and he jumps in here to explain that science proves God.
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		And just to put it really simply, what Einstein discovered and what they're discovering the smaller they get is that human consciousness, the observer, affects reality.
		So some of these things, it looks like a wave.
		Sometimes it looks like a bullet, like a particle.
		Now, it's actually both until somebody looks at it.
		When you look at it, it actually determines what state it's at, which is really odd given an atheistic world.
		That wouldn't make any sense.
		Why would your mind have any effect over reality?
		So they're actually proving our worldview through their atheistic mindset, whether they realize it or not, because they're proving that human consciousness, our soul, our essence, actually affects physical reality in a way that we really don't understand at all.
unidentified		Nope.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Not how that works at all.
		But what they're proving is that light affects light.
		Not that the human mind, it's not that when we observe it, we force the wave function to collapse.
		It's that in order to observe it, we have to shine light on it, which then forces the wave function to collapse.
		It's not like our eyes are doing it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, it's our eyes.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Now, admittedly, I don't know a whole lot about quantum physics.
		That's not an area of study that I am very – I'm not even really conversant in it necessarily.
		I've watched some YouTube videos, much like Chris probably has.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Also, that wasn't Einstein.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Einstein wasn't the guy who figured out that light is both a particle and a wave.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, no, it was a little bit after him, as I understand.
unidentified		But, you know, what are you going to do?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What are you going to do?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is one of those things that, like, I think that, you know, uncertainty rules in, you know, like the Schrodinger's cat kind of.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what he's referencing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		But ideas like that really bring up this idea.
		It's the form of science that's most easily abused.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		By people who have an agenda.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Especially since the people who do know about it also agree, nobody really knows that much about it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		they're not going to engage, like they're not going to be like...
		Oh, no.
		They're not going to go on Jim Baker's show and thoroughly explain it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're not going to come on this show and fully explain it.
		Hell no.
		So generally, most people don't get, without studying it, don't really understand it.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't think these guys have.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Because if you are talking to a quantum physicist, you're eventually going to get to the point where they say, all of this we can measure, and I can tell you that this is true.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But the stuff that we can't measure is so great that I can't tell you that anything is true.
unidentified		Right, right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Because we're trying, man.
		That's why we got all this.
		We built the biggest fucking thing ever.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Just to be like, shut the fuck up, you asshole.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We're not looking for God.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We're not trying to open a portal.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Where would it even go?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So far, a lot of this has just been still a little bit of laying the groundwork.
		This is going to spin off the rails pretty hard.
		And I believe that it starts in this case.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I feel like misrepresenting the two slits experiment has already made me angry at how far off the rails this has gone.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's very basically off the rails.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Already off the rails.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I have one piece of evidence that it is damning that Jim Baker doesn't have and that his guests don't be like, hold on.
		Okay.
		It's the sort of thing that I legitimately believe is disqualifying for the idea that someone has ever read the Bible or has ever studied.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Or has ever even read the Bible.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Or has ever even studied the idea of Christianity.
		Any of those things.
		I think if you don't know this one piece of information, I think.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is one of those times where I wish I got to.
		Sorry, sorry, sorry.
		I had to cut in real quick.
		This is one of the times where I feel so miserable that I couldn't, that I didn't know what we were going to talk about.
		Because the way my brain works is like, all of this information is spinning around in my head, but now I'm trying to improv it and pull it from all kinds of different directions, so I'm going to sound like an idiot.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I should have texted you and like, brush up on the top of the bottom.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Remember physics and CERN and all of that shit?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And then I'm like, hey, blah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're doing good.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But everything goes off the rails, I believe, starting in this next clip.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		That's what they're trying to do.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Verify a parallel reality.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Now, if I remember correctly, back when I was a boy.
		No, back in the Bible days when they were building a tower called Babel or Babel.
		Babylon.
unidentified		A tower to go into heaven.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Is that right?
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Now, if my mind serves me correctly, they were looking for more of a doorway to heaven.
unidentified		A stairway.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Now, let's face it.
		You're not going to build a stairway or a tower and walk up and go into heaven.
		You can't climb that high.
		So I don't think they were trying to build just a tower that would get up and say, hi, God.
		Good morning.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hey, God, good morning.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Hey, God, good morning.
		What time is it?
		What time zone does God live in, Dad?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So that's.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Is he Greenwich Mean time?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Must be.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All the upper crust.
		Subscribe to Greenwich Mean.
		Look, dude, fair enough, fair play to you, Jim Baker?
		I suppose, yes.
		You can't climb high enough.
		Good call.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm glad he does know that.
		That's good.
		That suggests a basic understanding of science.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, that is in sharp contrast with his co-host, Zach, who comes in with this.
unidentified		Now, the crazy thing is this.
		Could they have possibly gotten to heaven in the Tower of Babel?
		Would they have if God wouldn't have destroyed them?
		And I would say with an emphatic answer, an emphatic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I expected him to say no.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, he says.
unidentified		What?
		Yes.
		Yes, they would have.
		And we can learn this from Genesis chapter 11, and it says this.
		It says, and then they said, come, let us build ourselves a city with a tower that reaches to the heaven so that we may make a name for ourselves.
		Otherwise, we'll be scattered over the whole face of the earth.
		But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		First of all, I love the idea of God coming down just to see it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, hey, what the fuck are these assholes doing?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, actually, his real problem was he was hanging his toes off the edge of heaven for a while, and they almost brushed up on that tower, and he's like, nah, I got to stop this shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They're fucking with my fishing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Strongly disagree.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think what happened is that one of God's buddies came over.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He's like, God's buddies?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's like, they're fucking talking.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Shiva.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Shiva comes over and he's like, they're fucking calling you out your name.
		They're talking shit about you.
		Are you going to stand for that?
		So God comes down, checks out the city.
		He's like, what the fuck is this?
		What is this bullshit?
		Sons of bitches.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Who planned this?
		It's right next to a grocery store.
		Come on, man.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Next to the only way into heaven.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We're zoning laws.
unidentified		And the Lord said this.
		Are you ready for this?
		If as one people speaking the same language, they've begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
		The very thing, the God of the universe, he said that nothing they do would be impossible for them.
		That indicates that the very thing that they had set out to do would have been achieved.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So, boy, these guys don't understand metaphor well.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's going to be a.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They really don't understand metaphor.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's going to be a running theme.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So even biblical literalists are like, they weren't actually building the Tower to Heaven.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Guys, you can't do that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, also.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's not upstairs.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also, fun little bit of trivia.
		The phrase Tower of Babel does not exist in the Bible.
		Also, it's not a real thing.
		It's merely what's known as an etiology, which is like a little story that's meant to explain something.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Basically, it's meant to explain why people have different languages and to teach children against the idea of a hubris against God.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That sort of thing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It is very similar to this other myth.
		There are tons of them.
		It's like a big one.
		It's in the public consciousness.
		Led Zeppelin referenced it one time.
		It's that guy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Dire Maker.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Who went up like really.
unidentified		Yes.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
unidentified		It was actually Zoso.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, I mean, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Stairway to Heaven is Icarus.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's Icarus.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Icarus flying too close to the.
		That's the thing.
		There are even more literal analogs throughout history in different cultures.
		There's a Sumerian myth about M. Merkar's Ziggurat, a Mexican tale about the construction of the pyramid of Cholula.
		There's a bunch of different versions throughout Africa and even some in Tibet.
		And the historians have tried to figure out exactly: is it possible that there was a Tower of Babel, that this is something that actually comes down from history?
		And there was a ziggurat dedicated to Marduk in Babylon called.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Ooh, Marduk's a bad fella.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It was called Etam Nananki.
		But based on historical context, there's almost no chance this is what the story of the Bible is referring to.
		One of the chief problems being that the Tower of Babel was said to be built under Nimrod, which would have been around 2000 B.C., and Etem Nanyanki is almost certainly from around the 12th century BCE.
		It's impossible to tell for sure since Babylon was destroyed in 689 B.C. and Etamananki was destroyed along with it.
		Either way, that ziggurat that was built was about 300 feet tall, which isn't tiny, but for comparison, that's less than half the height of the Chicago Board of Trade building, the 44th tallest building in Chicago.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Do you know what's crazy about that building?
		It's about to be taken down by God.
		It got a little too close.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Everyone there speaking the same language.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's getting up real close.
		Nothing is impossible for these people who speak the same language.
		We've got to tear it down.
		Tear down that wall, Mr. God.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's also a sort of theme in the story that they're missing and not even dealing with, and that is the idea that God is affirming that if people work together, they have boundless potential.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Furthermore, it is suggesting that God is afraid of people.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Or is vested in them not working together.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		In some ways, he's like, oh, no.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Uh-oh, can't be having this.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so I mean they keep coming back to this and trying to compare CERN to the Tower of Babel.
		Okay.
		And whatever.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Why?
		Fine.
		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Whatever.
		Do what you do.
		It's only because that one theme of the story, the hubris against God, is what they're trying to create as all that's going on at CERN.
		So now.
		Yes.
		There's more to this story.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What's that?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And that is.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Wait, the Tower of Babel?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, we're off Tower of Babel for now.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And now we're getting into the story of Tom Horne and Chris Putnam.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That sounds like a classic myth.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It is one of the great tales of history, one of the great love stories.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Not since Isolde and Tristan have we had such a great romance.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Star-crossed lovers.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I only know about that Isolde and Tristan because of like I worked at a movie theater when that movie came out.
		The Isold movie or whatever, I believe.
		And all I remember was all of the marketing materials were so petty about Romeo and Juliet.
		They were all like, I remember it to this day.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You think Romeo and Juliet was good?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You ain't seen shit.
		It was more like Romeo and Juliet ripped us off.
		All right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Wait, wait, so even the movie people are saying that Romeo and Juliet ripped Tristan and Isolt off?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That was part of the marketing campaign of it.
		Right.
		It was crazy.
unidentified		It's nuts.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I like it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That was 20 years ago, probably me working at that movie theater.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Man, maybe a little less.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I genuinely do not know why I know anything about Tristan and Isolt other than I was in a literature for a while, and somehow that just became a reference point.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So Tom is going to tell a little bit of the story of the beginning of their conspiracy here, and I'll fill in the blanks as best I can.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Is there some kismet?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Is this serendipity?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, they've been working together for quite a while.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Was the movie Serendipity based off of them?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I do think that he was who John Cusack was based off of.
		Perhaps.
		Okay.
		And also, I should say, Tom Horne wrote Love in the Time of Cholera.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		There's a supernatural force going on.
		And you all have been on amazing trips.
		Y'all.
		You have gone back into the wilderness.
		You've gone into the deserts.
		You have gone to meet with the Indian leaders.
		You have gone to meet with leaders around the world.
		Supernatural things taking place.
		And I was writing down when you were going to meet Dr. Moes, I believe his name, was that correct?
		M-O-S-E.
		What was he?
		A medical doctor?
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		No, Dr. Mose is the Navajo Nation's third-generation medicine man and oral historian.
		And so partly what happened, Jim, was we had gone up to Mount Graham.
		You know, the whole Exo-Vaticana the last time we were on your show talking about that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, of course.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		And when we came down from Mount Graham, we thought we had all of the answers in the world as to why.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		The Catholics are part of an observatory, one of the biggest in the world.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		One of the lenses is called Lucifer.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		I remember that.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but it's one of the pieces of technology and sort inside the large binocular telescope is called the Lucifer.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that makes everything clear, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is a big conspiracy that begun and propagated by Tom Horne Putnam.
unidentified		Just these two guys are the ones who originated this bullshit?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Or popularized it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You could say that there were other players involved, too, but they're major figures.
		The Vatican having a Lucifer telescope, which, and they're not going to get into this now because in 2015 it's embarrassing.
		But a lot of the conspiracy around it was that the Vatican is in touch with aliens.
		Of course.
		And they're using this Lucifer telescope in order to track Niburu or Planet X, which was supposed to come back around in 2012 at the end of the Mayan calendar.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All of this stuff.
		That stuff didn't happen, of course.
		Well, that.
		And so you leave that piece off of it.
		And that's why I believe Tom Horne is like, well, it's a piece of the technology, the Lucifer thing.
		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You got to toss it.
		Anytime somebody is like, let's throw in something that some asshole thinks that people do need to get better at naming shit.
		Because I get why you would name it Lucifer, but if you name it Lucifer.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You have no idea why.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you why.
		It was called that.
		Why?
		We'll get into it.
unidentified		We'll get into it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Okay, all right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So here's the thing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They went to Mount Graham, which is a mountain, and there's named after Graham.
unidentified		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's an opportune place to put telescopes.
		So there are multiple observatories, multiple unrelated entities on Mount Graham that have telescopes.
		So the Vatican maintains an observatory there that includes the Alice P. Lennon-Gregorian telescope and the Thomas J. Bannon Astrophysics Facility.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I believe it's called the Memorial Thomas J. Bannon.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, where said telescope is housed.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The Alice telescope is inside the Thomas Astrophysics Facility.
unidentified		Cool.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is commonly referred to as the VAT complex, EATT.
unidentified		Cool.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also on Mount Graham, but unconnected to VAT, is the Mount Graham International Observatory, which contains the Large Binocular Telescope.
		Part of the technology at MGIO is an infrared spectroscopy imagery module known as the Large Binocular Telescope Near-Infrared Spectrasonic Utility with Camera and Integral Field Unit for Extragalactic Research.
		Initially, the acronym for this was Lucifer, but since Christian weirdos kept being weird about it, they changed it to Lucifer.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because you take out some of the letters.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I mean, there's no way that's going to make a word.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So you drop a couple of the words off the acronym.
		You end up with Lucifer.
		If you're some sort of not Vatican-connected astrologist, you're like, whoa, look at that.
		It comes Lucifer.
		Let's do it.
unidentified		Yep.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		In the same way that that blue horse outside the Denver airport, that giant blue horse.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, but all those conspiracies are true.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, they're not.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They called that Lucifer.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's what they call it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's known as the red eyes, but when you look into it, it has to do with the artist's history and the artist's life and his dad owning a neon shop when he was a kid, so he decorated it with some neon eyes as an homage to his father.
		All this shit.
		Anyway, the reality of things is often less interesting than assuming that the Pope has sanctioned a telescope called Lucifer in the middle of Mount Graham.
		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		To monitor Planet X.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and they communicate with aliens.
		Yeah.
		Who doesn't?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		In the worlds we inhabit, seems like a lot of people are communicating with aliens these days.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Seems like we're the only ones who aren't.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We're the only ones.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Why don't we have our own telescope?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We really should get one.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Just like a small one, though.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like within our budget.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're not cheap.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Put it on Mount Dan?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Just find Mount Dan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There is a Danville in almost every state.
		I bet there's a little tiny hill in Danville.
		We'll call it Mount Dan.
		This will be good.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Knowledge Fight Memorial Mount Dan Telescope.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So we're going to get into the Native American stuff a little bit later.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's going to bring that back up.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I was going to say, why did he toss in some Native American medicine man if we're all about God and Jehovah?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We'll discuss that in a more full way before I get into more of the stuff here about this Lucifer telescope and Mount Graham.
		Most of his ideas about this connection with UFOs and stuff is based on an interview with a guy named Guy Consul Magno, who is attaché.
		He was a past president of the IAU Commission on Planets and Moons.
unidentified		Cool.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He has an affiliation with the Vatican.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Nice.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So he had an interview with him, and a little bit later, after Tom Horne started putting out a bunch of information about interviews with this Consul Magno guy, Consul Magno, guy, Consul Magno, came out with this statement.
		Quote, about a year ago, an author whom I will not name or link to conducted an extensive interview with me by email.
		I thought he was a legitimate journalist.
		However, seeing the ways in which he has twisted, misquoted, and invented utter falsehoods from the things I said, I've come to suspect he is either a knave or a fool.
		There are no Vatican secrets about UFOs.
		Neither I nor anyone I know has any evidence that extraterrestrials exist.
		We do not believe that Jesus is a hybrid or any of the other bizarre claims this author makes.
		He is either seriously deluded or a deliberate con man.
		Let me rephrase this as strongly as I can.
		I do not know of any credible evidence at all that there has ever been contact of any form between extraterrestrial aliens and Earth.
		Period.
		I cannot imagine a circumstance where such contact could be kept secret for very long.
		And I say this not only as an active astronomer for 40 years, but also as someone who knows lots of people in the SETI community who would love to have such evidence, and as someone who's been an officer of the American Astronomical Society and the International Astronomical Union.
		If there's something like this going on, we'd all be talking about it.
		There isn't, and we aren't.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they would pretty much be talking about it non-stop.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It might be the only thing anyone would ever talk about.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It would take a while for the novelty to wear off and people to be like, ah, what are we talking about?
		Aliens again?
		Fuck off.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so he is completely misrepresented the interview that he had with him in order to bolster all this stuff, which I bring up partially because it's related, but also mostly because it is the sort of behavior that these people do.
		They take people entirely out of context or just make stuff up and hope you can just roll the bones and no one will notice.
		Hope they never find out and hope no one looks into it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Also, there aren't a lot of good opportunities to use the word nave properly.
		That's a fun word to toss around, and that is the most accurate word that guy could have used.
		It's almost like he chooses his words very carefully and decides to use them when they are appropriate.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also, it's fun because when they talk about going to Mount Graham, I believe there will be some of this in the episode as we go along, but they sort of portray it as like they broke in or like it was some sort of a like false flag operation.
		Or it was some sort of a like ballsy investigative Project Veritas infiltration.
		Yeah, absolutely.
		They sort of try and present it as like a dramatic detective sort of thing, but you can take a tour.
		Like it's open to the public.
		Like it's not.
		If you called and you presented yourself as a journalist, you could probably interview anybody there.
		You get a tour.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		If you called and presented yourself as just you, you could probably get a tour.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, if you pay, I think it's 40 bucks, you can get a tour.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We should get a tour.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We're not close.
		Oh, okay.
		But the idea is they're trying to create this sort of mythos around what they did.
		Like going to Mount Graham was dangerous for them and they solved a mystery.
		Right.
		And then they come down and talk to the Native Americans, which again, we'll talk about here in a second.
		And all of it is horseshit.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like all of it is just classic.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They're just tourists lying.
		Yeah.
		They're selling you on a slideshow that you wouldn't otherwise like.
		Like you're not going to watch their slideshow.
		Like look, we've all been on vacation, dude.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But they have to sell it as it's an investigation and we figured it all out because it's the equivalent of your friend punching himself in the face and taking a picture while he's on vacation.
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Here's a picture of after I got mugged just to space it up.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That didn't happen on your trip, but the rest of the trip wasn't a good story.
		It was a good time.
		How good of a story is they let us in and were very gracious and talked to us.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You've got to have punch up on everything, Dan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Reality is kind of boring.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So I told you that we're going to get to the Native Americans, and it turns out we get to them much sooner than I expected.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We're still just letting go all of the shit that they've said so far as not being that far off the rails, right?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, just because this is going to get further off the rails.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		100%.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		100%.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand how that's possible.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It goes off the rails in multiple directions.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We've gone off that.
		We've already got the Tower of Babel is about them actually being capable of getting all the way up to God.
		The Large Hadron Collider is about finding and creating an alternate portal.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So far, so good.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What are we doing here?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What are we doing here, Jim?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So the best I can tell you is that as this goes along, it's not like the train goes off the rails.
		It's like little cars break off of the train and go off the rails in different directions.
		And you're sort of still tracking those trains.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And some of them explode, and it's a whole thing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Here is where we get into sort of the beginnings of what he wants to talk about about Native Americans.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		We think, well, okay, we've solved the mystery, right, of what's going on in Mount Graham.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's talking about after he got a tour.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		And then we get contacted by the Apache, by a member of the Apache nation who wants us to know that he heard us on the radio, he saw us on TV, and we have missed probably the biggest piece of the puzzle.
		And we're like, well, what is that?
		And he says the reason that the Apache joined the environmentalists to sue the Vatican and to sue NASA and to try to keep them from getting up on the top of that mountain is because Mount Graham is one of the four holiest mountains in the world for all American indigenous tribes, not just the Apache.
		And it is, Jim, because it is a portal.
		It is a doorway.
		It is a gateway.
		It is a strategic location on Earth where since the beginning of time, entities have come in and out of this reality.
		Well, when he told me that, we went and vetted the story to make sure that was true, and it is.
		And then, boy, the conspiracy life went off in our head about now why.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I would like more information on this vetting process.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		How do you vet this is a portal that many people have, many entities have entered in and out of over human history?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The only response I have to that question is: I looked into it, and I'm very sad to report that Tom Horne has not been on Project Camelot.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That belongs on fucking projects.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I was just thinking about this.
		What happens when you combine people who believe in God with people who are willing to lie about science and then just throw God in there is Project Camelot.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I think even beneath the surface a little bit, Carrie is probably a little religious.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, no, that's where he carries Lean's a little religious.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Scientists are, generally speaking, not always, but usually responsible people.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And so they don't say things like, we're trying to find a portal.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And there's a fucking portal up here.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's why we built this observatory.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And then the Apache are the protectors of the portal.
		Scientists.
		Also, there's a certain bit of old school 1940s adventurism.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right, Bill Him said, that's what's built into the idea of Steinley got into this observatory.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, not just that, but there's a Native American who is our.
		Yeah, he's our Sherpa to take us through.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
		There's the whole thing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, I have that backwards.
		That's what Haji would call Dr. Quest.
		I apologize.
		That was backwards.
		But the same relationship.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Haji was an Indian.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I understand that the same sort of relationship.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, agreed.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You're absolutely right there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is a 1940s boys' adventure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Look, I want to say that I understand.
		I agree 100%.
		The reason I can't respond to that clip, really, is because I don't know his vetting process, and I can't vet that information.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm pretty sure he threw a rock through the portal.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I can't vet that information about the portal, but you know what I can do?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I can vet other things he says, and I can use that as context clues about whether or not I should trust him.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This next clip, I vetted.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		And you lived in Arizona, by the way.
		You know why they call the Phoenix metropolitan area the Valley of the Sun?
		It's because when the giants came down through wiping out the Indians and they ran and hid in the caves, they cried out to the sun god, the great god, and he said a flood that came across the earth and wiped out all of the giants, and that's why the metropolitan area is called the Valley of the Sun because God wiped out the giants there.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's an interesting theory.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So headline on that day, giants killed by flood.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		How big were the giants?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Huge.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Were they the New York Giants or the San Francisco Giants?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They were the Nephilim Giants.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Nephilim Giants.
		Yeah, yeah.
		So the Native Americans also believed in the Nephilim.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Or perhaps the Nephilim just tossed in.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Bitch, you don't have to believe in the Nephilim.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They exist.
unidentified		There we go.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You're right.
unidentified		You're right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		How dare you?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And of course, this, as we all should have known, because it's a very well-known concept that everyone within a certain community knows.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The Valley of the Sun is named such because giants got flooded.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Giants were fucking all over the place.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The neighborhood was lousy with giants.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You couldn't step anywhere without getting stepped off.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So they prayed in caves, and the God of the Sun brought a flood, and they killed off all the giants.
		Mysteriously, they didn't kill them in the caves.
		Seems like a track during a flood.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's a selective flood.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Furthermore, does this guy think that because it kind of sounds like he believes that that did happen?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he definitely believes.
		Well, I think it's that thin line for con men.
		It's like you never really, you know, like a good poker player, you're not really sure if they're bluffing or not.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Good con men or people who've been doing it for long enough, you kind of don't know if they really believe it or if it's just a bluff.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But he's very much suggesting, within his twisted worldview, that this is so named because of a literal event that happened.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's interesting.
		Right.
		Because here, I would.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Which suggests that there is a God of the sun who is not the Jehovah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's interesting, too.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So who's Jehovah?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Where's Jehovah?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's been this whole situation.
		only one god why did they get the flood if there's okay Because they just think of Jehovah as the sun god.
		It's all one God, many names.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He is the God of the sun, and I'm telling you something.
		Ain't no sun like the sun of God.
		You know what I'm saying?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Unfortunately, I'm going to read to you from an article in Arizona Central, AZCentral.com.
		Quote, it's critical for cities to be properly marketed to create a sense of place for residents and alluring vacation destination for tourists.
		Boosters touted Phoenix.
		Boosters touted Phoenix as being the, quote, Denver of the Southwest in the 1890s, a slogan that seems a tad unimaginative.
		In the 1920s, they tried, quote, where summer winters, and, quote, the golden spot of America, but both were duds.
		In 1935, the Valley of the Sun slogan was coined by a local advertising agency for the Phoenix Chamber of Commerce.
		The group felt the slogan had a, quote, direct reader appeal that cannot help but attract interest, according to a 1935 Arizona Republic article.
		Valley of the Sun is a tourism nickname cooked up by the Phoenix metro area in the 1930s because it sounded better than the accurate name, the Salt River Valley.
		The reason for the name is that the metropolitan area may well be one of the sunniest places in the country, receiving an average of 295 days of sunlight a year as opposed to the national average of 205.
		This does not come from Native American legend.
		It comes from 1930s Arizona tourism boards.
		I am a big fan of when you could find this by looking into it at all.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Googling it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Tom Horne.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You could.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Congratulations on your studying.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm a big fan of any time that kind of claim comes out on our show, and then you just immediately point to, and this was marketing.
		And you're like, oh, God.
		Great.
		So this is an ad agency.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But it also speaks to how good that ad agency was.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's really good.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I tricked Tom Horne in the present.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Is that also years later?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That also is not that hard to do, I feel like.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, probably not.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You just got to tell Tom Horne something he wants to hear, and he will be tricked.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So, like I'm saying, there are claims you can vet, and there's claims that you can't.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Can you?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The fact that I can prove or disprove that the giants were flooded, though.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, see, I can't, but I don't care because I can prove that he doesn't know that that was a tourist slogan from 1935 that an ad agency came up with, not something that is really indicative of Navajo legends.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Parallel thinking, Dan.
		Absolutely.
		Parallel thinking.
		The Navajo came up with it first, and then hundreds of years later, the marketing guy, he just got influenced by the sun god.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I would recommend everybody to read as many articles as I have read today about why is Phoenix called the Valley of the Sun?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		and all of them will point you in the exact same direction, has nothing to do.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The sun god flooded him with ideas, and that's what happened.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's why it's called the Valley of the Sun.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So in that clip before this, where Tom was talking hot bullshit, he was saying that he talked to a Navajo man.
		Perhaps the medicine man, Dr. Mays?
		Not Mays.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I thought he was Apache.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, he's very fast and loose about these things.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's not very respectful about the First Nations?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, he's not.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And he's especially not because he refers to people as Anasazi, as we discussed this.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		As we have discussed.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Why does that only come up on Jim Baker's show, by the way?
		Weird.
		Weird that that specific racism.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's such a very specific racism.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Maybe it's not even racism, but ethnic insensitivity.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Ignorance.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Willful ignorance.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It seems very consistent.
		And I actually kind of know why.
		It's because this Tom Horne and Steve Quayle are good friends.
unidentified		Oh, okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're contemporaries.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Gotcha.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And know each other and do each other's radio shows all the time.
		Gotcha.
		So the idea that both of them will spout nonsense about Anasazi people.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Makes perfect sense.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, absolutely.
		Gotcha.
		So here is more from this Navajo gentleman that Tom Horne talked to.
		And boy, I'll tell you what.
		I have a very simple explanation for this.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		At first, he's just going down the storyline, right?
		He's telling what they hear in their schools.
		He's saying, well, a drought came along, and so the ancient Anasaze, they migrated away out of the area.
		They eventually become the Hopi.
		And I stop him in the film and I say, but I've heard there's a lot of evidence that contradicts that.
		For instance, they left everything behind, all their salt, all their tools, everything was still inside the cave, Salt's Hardy.
		They disappeared overnight.
		They didn't migrate away slowly.
		And he looks into the camera and he says, well, I should not tell you this, but.
		And then he starts saying, if you would have asked my great-grandfather, here's the story that he would have told.
		And he describes a portal opening in the Four Corners area.
		And that same reptilian that had caused such havoc with the Apache comes through over there.
		And they draw pictures, petroglyphs.
		Some of these are a thousand years before Jesus Christ walked on the earth, and they show a portal, a spiral vortex.
		The portal is opening.
		Right next to it is this giant reptilian with the halo around his head that comes through, and what does he do?
		He starts teaching the Anasaze.
		This, according to the Navajo historian, he starts teaching the Anasaze dark magic, black magic, and they go down into their kivas, into their underground places that should be holy places, and they start pharmakia, the New Testament would call it.
		They start using sorcery and drugs, and they get in contact with these things, and they bring them through the portals, and now all of a sudden there's giants in the Anasaze area, and they're cannibalizing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So that's a lot.
		I can actually explain that in one sentence.
		I should probably say before you go off on the reason that this Navajo guy's grandfather would say this about the people who he's referring to as Anasazi is because if we recall what we talked about on that Steve Quayle episode, Anasazi means literally in Navajo language, ancient enemies.
		So the idea that a Navajo guy had some sort of cultural tradition about demonizing Anasazi, folk who we should call Pueblo and ancestors.
		That to me is just sort of an artful, hateful etiology about why do we not like these Pueblins?
		Why do we call them ancestral enemies?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Because they steal our jobs.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, no, not just that.
		It's because when that portal opened and demon reptilian beings came through, they were susceptible to the black magic.
		And that's why, even though we probably should all just get along and live out our common purposes and goods in life, no, they are black magic.
		They're the other, and we don't trust them.
		What he is doing is he's being fucking incredibly stupid, Tom Horn.
		He's not taking cultural context into it at all.
		If I heard, if like, you understand what I'm saying.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I do.
		I do.
		What I don't understand is why is everyone listening and nodding?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You mean the people at Morningview?
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's weird.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Why are they doing that?
		Doesn't this fly in the face of all of their beliefs?
		If that's true, because they're nodding as though this was a thing that he's emphasizing that this is what the Navajo historian says to him as a true thing.
		He's also insisting that portals are real.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they're real.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So he's now suggesting that a thousand years before Jesus Christ, there were Navajo sorcerers, or not Navajo, Anasazi sorcerers who had the capability to open portals, bring giants and reptilian guys with halos.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And everybody who's Christian is just like, whoa, I can't believe that happened.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, that's a thing?
		I think a piece of it is they believe that giants are in the Bible.
		And so bringing in the giants are like, oh, these are just sort of extra demonic beings or whatever.
		And the portal stuff, I believe, that Tom believes.
		I'm not sure he spells this out fully.
		Portals are sort of blasé.
		They're just sort of like, eh, whatever.
		God can make them portals or whatever.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Man, I feel like portals should be a bigger deal than that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And so angels in Tom's, he does bring this up a couple times.
		Angel just means messenger.
		So it doesn't have to be a race of beings or something like that.
		It could be all sorts of different messenger.
		It's a job, not a type of thing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Man, that really changes that Danny Glover movie a lot.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And that Christopher Lloyd movie.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's the same movie.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Let me tell you something, dude.
		You got an angel with you right now.
		It was a remake, though.
		It was a remake.
		To be fair.
unidentified		It might be the best moment of this podcast ever.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Messengers in the outfield would not sell nearly as well.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's a different movie.
		And I mean, you know, Giants in the Outfield would still be great.
		You got Mooly Mays.
		Oh, good.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I got about 180 of those movies a year.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Something like that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The baseball season.
		Guys.
		How do we move forward from that?
		I don't know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Once you get a good Angels in the Outfield bit going, it's hard to escape.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I would say that he thinks that all that fits into his warped version of what Christianity says and what the Bible actually says, which it doesn't.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But it really sounds like they're all looking at this and learning history.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like that's the way that they're like, that's the way that Jim Baker and all these people are presenting it as they're like, whoa, look at this bit of human history that's 100% real that I didn't know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That co-host Zach was saying that they literally could make a tower to heaven.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I don't know what is going on here.
		You've pointed this out earlier.
		I worry that none of these people have ever actually read the Bible.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I worry that they've read these nouveau translations of the Bible, like the message version of the Bible and stuff like that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't know that one.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's one of those.
		Probably maybe after even both of our times when we were in the church.
		But it's a translation that tries to put the Bible into modern terms and stuff like that.
		So it loses a lot of the essence of the King James version or even the NIV version.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And Jesus walked up and he was like, you guys aren't cool selling this shit in the church.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And then Jesus pulled him out and he put his sunglasses on.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah!
		And even those versions, like the sort of classically accepted versions, they even have their problems.
		I mean, like, if you study classical languages at all, one of the things you start to have to look at is that in ancient Greek, for instance, they didn't really usually ever write vowels and stuff like that.
		Yeah.
		And they didn't put spaces between words.
		Oh, that makes things very difficult.
		There are ways you can, you know, you suss it all out and figure it out.
		So there is a construction that you can make of texts and stuff like that, but it's imprecise sometimes.
		And that's Greek, a language we fucking understand almost fully.
		So when you take these biblical texts that are from Koine Greek and you have that level of detachment from it and that much.
		Like the other thing, so in college, I translated the Iliad in one of my classes.
		One semester was dedicated just to translating the Iliad.
		And one of the things that always has struck in my head, like it's something that I think about very regularly.
		There are multiple words in the Iliad that don't exist anywhere else ever in writing.
		Like there's one that is like the only one I can remember is polyphloisbos.
		There's a word that only exists one time in the Iliad and never again in Greek.
		In no other Greek writing, it means many flowing.
		It's a word that's used to describe almost the sound of the water lapping up against boats and stuff like that.
		It's a descriptor epithet of a river.
		The polyphloisbos.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		And that is always struck in my mind because when you have these ancient languages and there are examples of these words that only exist once, there's the impreciseness of translation.
		And then on top of that, if you've ever looked into the Dead Sea Scrolls, you would know that most of that is fragments.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, isn't the Iliad fragments too?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Somewhat.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But a lot of that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Or at least people consider it to be part of a far larger series of seven.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Anyways, I'm sorry for interrupting.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It seems part of oral tradition.
		So like whatever it originally was isn't what it was when it was eventually exactly.
		But in terms of the Dead Sea Scrolls, they found all those scrolls at Qumran and they tried to put them together as best as they could.
		But even if you look at any scholarly text about the Dead Sea Scrolls, you're going to have caveats like a lot of this is missing.
		Right.
		And that's the case for a lot of fucking books.
		There's a lot of books in the Bible that have had to be reconstructed and have been over time.
		So to me, when you have that much and you understand that much, you kind of have to accept fallibility in the text.
		And then beyond that, you have to really avoid hip cool translations because they're going to lead you into a stupid world where you're like reading this and God says, hey, bro, what's up?
		Or something like that.
		That's not what it says.
		But it's that sort of parallel.
		Like, hey, God says, what's going on?
		You know, you're going to lose pretty much everything.
		You'll get the spirit, I guess, maybe.
		Maybe the intent of the text, but you're not going to get any of it.
		Well, I mean, in my world, just because I want to make this very clear.
		The message version of the Bible, the message translation, the last Jim Baker episode we did was about Paula White Kane.
		That's her favorite translation.
		She makes that very clear.
		And so, like, that's one of the reasons why that is something that comes up in my mind when we're talking about what do these people have they ever read the Bible?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And yeah, they probably have, but they've read a version that's almost like a Harry Potter novel.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Or something like that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's written to be read by people who like novels.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It stars Poochie.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		More or less.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So what you're saying.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		No, I mean, to that, in my world, just in a pure present tense, reading a Rainier Maria Rilk book of his poetry in German and then reading the translation in.
		And German and English are very, very close languages.
		But you will never actually get, like, there's such a massive difference between those two.
		And we all understand.
		People who speak German have studied German their entire lives.
		And translators are trying their hardest to get the same kind of feel and flavor of that and put it into English.
		And you simply cannot.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So that's just something that's happening today, let alone something where you only have 10 words that he used and you have to try and extrapolate an entire language.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, and you have to consider idioms, which people who are actual scholars do.
		Right.
		Which is one of the easy ways, not easy ways, but it's one of the convenient ways you can date texts.
		Like a lot of the times you can tell, oh, this comes from this period because that idiom was not in function at that time.
		But that makes it incredibly difficult.
		Like wordplay exists in ancient languages.
		Wordplay exists in German that can't be translated to English.
		Even in modern languages, you lose a bit of the flair.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, when you try and translate German into English, it's like trying to stuff a cat full of boots and drop it in the water.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Try and translate that, you UK fucks.
		So let's get back into this.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That was a long tangent.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		At this point, we hear what I would describe as a return from Chris Putnam, who has been sort of playing second fiddle to Tom Horne throughout most of this.
		But he comes in hot.
		He comes in strong with a very stupid thing that he's going to say.
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		Good.
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		20, 30 years ago, would you think there'd be a reality program on television about hunting for ghosts?
unidentified		Yes.
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		I mean, today there's 30 or 40 of them competing with each other.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		Okay.
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		I think that's indicative of the age that we're in.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Competing with each other.
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		It's not just that belief in these things are increasing, that the phenomena themselves are becoming more manifest.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's a sign of the times that there's a bunch of ghost hunting shows where they never find anything.
		And most of them aren't about ghost hunting.
		There's the one show that's like, hey, it's really more about the fact that these are a bunch of college students who are doing this and aren't they cool and young and fun and they think they're the ghostbusters.
		And then there's that one where it's a frat guy who's yelling at ghosts to hit him and stuff like that.
		It's really more about that.
		And then there's fear on MTV that was really just about the fact that the camera was on the person's face and everyone cries all the time.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Never saw that one.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh man, that one was so good.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Was it?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Fear was the best.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Fear was the best.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So they would go to abandoned hospitals and stuff like that or like a prison, places that are allegedly haunted.
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And they'd be left there.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And the only video.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Man, that would be a phrase.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The only video.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's like a team of four or five people.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And the only video on the show is from surveillance cameras that MTV has set up around the place.
unidentified		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And then a video camera that's hooked to a rig, so it's like pointing at their face at all.
unidentified		Right, right, right, right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And they have to go through the night.
		They have to spend the night at this place.
		And throughout it, they get challenges where generally it'd be like a team.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Did you get challenges?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So they have a home base.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		God, MTV was great.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They have a home base that's safe and there's lights and stuff like that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And they get to stay in there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I love this show.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They stay in there initially, and then they get these missions.
		So it'll be like two of them have to go to the J-Wing of the prison.
		And then it turns out one of the cells, someone hung themselves in that cell.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So one of the people will have to stay in that cell for like 30 minutes and try and contact that spirit.
		They'll have to do something very specific.
		And then the other person will have to go away and do something else.
		So they all end up getting left alone.
		Right.
		And everybody just ends up freaking out.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		See, now I want to combine that with like the real world versus road rules challenge.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, so you get CT.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So you get them, and it's like, you got to go into the cell where somebody hung themselves, but you got to do like 30 pull-ups in there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		See, that would be great stuff.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You got to drink a bunch and yell about women.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that'd be the great.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That'd be a great way to go.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I would like that combination.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They did do a celebrity version of fear.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Of course they did.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That one was awesome.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Everybody wants to watch Celebrities Be Afraid.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Gary Busey was on it, and he was, as I recall.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Gary Busey is the mascot of it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		As I recall, the only person who wasn't scared.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Of course not.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Gary Busey has no fear.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I celebrate you, spirits.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Gary Busey was in point break, Dan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He's never been afraid of anything.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
		Pain don't hurt, too.
		My point about this is more that I don't think these ghost hunting shows are a sign of the times.
		I think they're a fad that happened because people realized, like, there's a lot of different ways we could turn this genre into a different show.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like a reality show.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		But it's an interesting context in the same way that, like, you know, there's a lot of different dating shows.
		And generally, it's not about the dating.
		It's about the twist that you put on the dating show.
unidentified		Right, right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, are they dating naked?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like, next.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Is it a limidate?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Is it next?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Next was great.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, next was all fake.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's at least shows like Shipmates where they were dating on a porn.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We don't talk about Chris Hardwick anyway.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I apologize.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sucks that he hosted Shipmates.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Ah, that motherfucker.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Shipmates was so good.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Who would have guessed?
		Damn it.
		We could have probably seen it coming.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So anyway, in this next clip, we get more Project Camelot talk from Tom Horn.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Prophecy says that these doorways are going to open.
		I think some of them are associated with what the Islamic Nation.
		You were just showing Joel Richardson's book.
		I think some of it's associated with them because the Euphrates river right where they're functioning is right out of the book of Revelation where it says, guess what?
		The door is going to open.
		Mortals are going to come up out of that river and they're going to wipe out a third of humanity.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So now the third of humanity goes back to our last apocalyptic bullshit on this.
		But like here, what we have is this is literally what Sweary Carrie Cassidy talks about.
		How they like all of these wars throughout history have the Iraq War, Vietnam.
		They weren't about actual geopolitical struggles.
		They were about closing Stargates.
		He doesn't use the term Stargate.
		He talks like doorways, portals.
		It's the exact same thing.
		These people are saying, they're pitching the same narrative to different audiences.
		It's fucking fascinating.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's also fascinating because at no point do any of these people realize that so many of these are like regional fears.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You know, like these guys have a reptilian with a halo.
		Over there, you got spider leadership.
		Over here, you got the raptoids or whatever the fuck it is.
		Like all of this shit is just regional fears that you can clearly take back to, oh, this culture got fucked up by spiders for a while.
		Like that was kind of the situation.
		Everybody had their own, like, we get fucked up.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We had a tarantula problem.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Or the different Komodo dragons might be hard in some cultures psyche, passed down psyche.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Or just the difference between Japanese dragons and European dragons.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like just the silly little things.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but then again, some of it is also like just intrinsic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like in terms of lizards being sort of seen as evil.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It makes sense.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're so different from mammals.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You know, there is a very, like a very strong distrust of something that doesn't have legs, like snakes rolling around.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
		What are they even fucking doing?
		Where are their legs?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also, they can kill you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also, like, not all of them, but some of them can kill you.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But the ones that don't kill you also still bite and are hostile.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And they fucking look weird.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And some of them can constrict you.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that's a bummer.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And generally speaking, like, lizards aren't good eating.
		So, like, there's no reason to really like them.
		Over history, lizards and reptiles are the greatest possible, like, you're bad.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to go with bugs.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to go with bugs.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'd go with birds.
unidentified		Oh, birds.
unidentified		Birds.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You don't like birds?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Too loud.
		Mean.
		Also, mean.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what's a bird ever done for you?
unidentified		Huh?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, what's a bird ever done for you?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I like chicken, but not much else.
unidentified		So.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I would love myths to be based off of so many of the things that you find like.
		Is it good to be?
		What's the myth?
		These birds are evil.
		Fucking loud as shit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Do you think a lot of myths are based on less?
		No.
		So, dude, what do you know about orbs?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know anytime somebody asks me that question, the answer is not what I'm going to say.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Do you know about the phenomenon in the paranormal conspiracy community of people taking pictures and there being orbs in it?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know about the song by the AAS named Phenomenon.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's not that.
		Okay.
		You don't know about this at all?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So orbs?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You go to haunted places.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Orbs.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You take pictures.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They're just orbs.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And then you get the pictures back and there's orbs in the picture.
		And generally speaking, most people can always be like, oh, well, this is failure of the camera.
		Or more often, it's the flash reflecting on a piece of something like that.
		Something along those lines.
		I'll tell you what.
		Chris Putnam.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Not a big fan of the reasonable explanations for orbs.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But he is a big fan of fucking orbs.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		What's going on there?
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		Sedona is famous for being a portal area.
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		In fact, there's actually one area called the Bradshaw Ranch.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Famous for it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		By the way, you guys have already struck out a couple times on Arizona.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I wouldn't just stop talking about Arizona.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Go back to the well.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also, why don't you go to Skinwalker Ranch, punk?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You too scared?
unidentified		What?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You got to go to Bradshaw Ranch?
unidentified		Weak.
unidentified		Yes.
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		Named after a famous stuntman.
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		Bradshaw, he was in a lot of the old Westerns.
unidentified		Oh, sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He's also made of orbs.
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		He used to be able to tour that.
		Mysteriously, the government bought all that land and fenced it off.
		Supposedly, it is national parkland, but now you can't even enter it.
		Okay.
		And it's famous in the UFO community as an area where you can see UFOs.
		It's famous in the ghost hunting paranormal community as a place where you see orbs.
		Orbs.
		Now, everyone has seen something unidentified in the sky.
		So UFO, I don't have much problem believing that people see things they can't identify.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What?
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		But orbs, I always thought that those were probably just camera anomalies.
		They are.
		You know, dust particles and things like that that just kind of, you know, just some sort of anomaly with the camera reflection inside of it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Stop right there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You nailed it.
chris putnam ▲ ● ▼		So I took a professional photographer with me, and we set up two cameras from different angles.
		And we actually did get orbs on film with two cameras at the same time.
		So it's not dust particle.
		It's not something on the camera lens.
unidentified		What?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That doesn't actually prove anything.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because if they're shooting in the same direction and there's something that might reflect or refract light from their flash and they're shooting from two angles, it would do the exact same thing on both cameras.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Also, so he, before this, before he took a professional photographer out with two cameras.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, and they're always using flash, I should be clear, because it's at night.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So it's not.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's the only way you can find orbs.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's not like I'm assuming that they're using flash.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Orbs don't come out at night.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're not using flash.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Orbs only come out at night.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, they come out at night.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That means that orbs are man-eaters.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So he knew.
		So here's my issue with this.
		He knew about orbs as a thing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And he always thought that they were something wrong with the camera.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Which means that he knew that there were a lot of pictures of orbs.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And he's presenting it as like, I thought it was bullshit before, which is what all con men do.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So, if I understand correctly, the way that he debunks this, or the way that he set out to debunk it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Two cameras.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Was to use two cameras.
		So there were hundreds of cameras upon thousands of cameras in the past that have found these orbs.
		And he was like, ah, bug, fake.
		But if I use two cameras, well, then I know they're right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I know how to do a double-blind study.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Two cameras.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Solved it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Light is both a particle and a wave, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Orbs.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So that's just to illustrate, like, this guy's not.
		He's just very gullible.
		And just not gullible.
		He just wants to push something on gullible people.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		When are they going to sell stuff?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because I should come clean a little bit.
		Because there's so much here.
		I cut out a lot of the ads.
		Okay.
		Mostly because it's all just that water bottle, man.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's pushing that water bottle hard.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And it's all these packages of the water bottle and Tom's book.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Okay, I was going to say, Tom Horne and Putnam, aren't they going to eventually get to the part where we all get to see?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I cut out some of the we're selling your book stuff because to me, honestly, that is in the realm of respectable behavior.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's assumed.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the idea that these guys are coming on his show and plugging the book, that doesn't seem like gross salesmanship to me.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like even people who come on like Sam Cedar's show who have a book, you give a little plug to the book.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you go on to late night and you sell your fucking movie.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Way they're packaging it with the water bottles is a little weird, but because we've danced all over that water bottle for the last two Jim Baker episodes, a lot of water balls.
		I felt like it was like, there's so much meat here.
		Let's not jump into that.
		Although I will say, we learned that the water bottle, he's been burying the lead on this.
		Yeah.
		It's not just for drinking river water.
		It also apparently alkalizes your water.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I did not know that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's not brought that up.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I've always needed my water alkalized.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It brings the pH up.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Which I should say, be careful with that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, I understand the idea that people think acid bad, base good, or something like that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But if you do too much trying to bring up either direction.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's very dangerous.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, not good.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's not to say drinking alkalized water is not like that alone is dangerous, but if you go too far with it, it can really fucking hurt you.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You know what's crazy?
		Those water bottles turn the frogs gay.
		That's what they do.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's what they've done along the frogs.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Long time.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So long, silent, and giggling co-host Lori Baker now comes in with a story.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		She doesn't just giggle.
		She also says, Wow.
		Oh.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So she comes in with a story.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And this is kind of fun because it gives us a little bit of flavor of what Lori is like.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But then it gives us a bigger picture into what Jim is like as a husband.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I'm not going to like that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Based on his reaction at the end of this story.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's going to hit somebody.
unidentified		I actually lived in that area down at the bottom of that mountain near Safford, Arizona, for a time.
		I actually lived in the Four Corner area for a time, another one of the portal areas.
		I have spent like a second home, Sedona, and Oak Creek Canyon.
		So I'm like, wow, this is blowing my mind thinking that these are these portals.
		And I have had so many incredible supernatural experiences with the Lord, with the Holy Spirit.
		If I told you them, some of you would probably turn the TV off and go, there's no way.
		But I'm telling you.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You should probably turn the TV off after saying that.
unidentified		But I've also seen the demonic side of the supernatural.
		So I know all this.
		I know that the supernatural world is more real than us really sitting here.
		I don't know how to explain that in words, but as real as you're here right here, honey, and I'm touching you, the supernatural world.
		I mean, we have angels surrounding us all around us.
		And it's exciting.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		We're in the final stage of the last days, I believe.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		I really do.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What the hell, man?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Your wife just told a story about seeing demons and angels.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And then you give a pause where everyone's like, and then you launch off on your new thought that you want to make.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's the end times.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's the verbal equivalent of being like, slap.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm not interested in your story, Lori.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Where there's angels all around us right now.
		All right, we're in the final stage of the end times, everybody.
		Do you ignore that bullshit?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The problem that I have is that, like, her story isn't out of line with the stuff they talk about.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, it's right on.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's not like that story is in any way, like, why did she say that?
unidentified		Uh-uh.
unidentified		It's very much like, oh, yeah, that's part and parcel of this.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's part of the whole thing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		She sees angels.
		She sees demons.
		They're all around us right now.
		They're more real than you and me.
		This is something that everybody has literally said in this fucking show.
		And Baker is just like, eh, fuck off.
		I don't want to engage.
		I've heard it before, Lori.
		We're not changing the channel.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Why'd I marry you?
		There's a sense that maybe this is a little bit one-sided.
		You know what I'm saying?
unidentified		Oh, it's a matter of time.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And she calls him honey.
unidentified		And what have you, and he's just he's a fucking psychopath, though.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like, of course he doesn't care about her.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Man, wait till we get to the end of this.
		You're going to see some real disconnect in his brain.
		Okay.
		Like, he psychopath is not accurate, maybe, but definitely he doesn't have feelings.
		Okay.
		But before we get to that, Tom Horne comes in and he says something.
		He talks for about 30 seconds, and it teaches me that he knows, or he's super into a couple things I don't think he should be.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, and the watchers who fell down, Peter and Jude both described them as being contained under the surface of the earth.
		Again, we're talking about the earth is much more dynamic than people understand, much more connected to prophecy.
		And they are under the surface of the earth waiting for the day of judgment.
		Now, there is an extra biblical book.
		It's actually in some Orthodox versions of the Bible.
		It's called the Book of Enoch.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Stop right there.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Certainly was read by the disciples.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		It's quoted by the disciples actually in the New Testament.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Stop it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's only in two Coptic Orthodox churches' canons.
		So the first thing is Hollow Earth.
		He's very clearly talking about Hollow Earth.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's where the demons are.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And then also the Book of Enoch.
		He's into those two things.
		And I don't think that's great.
		I'll be honest with you.
		I don't think it's that great.
		I think, like.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What's not great about it?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, one, Hollow Earth is it's fun to think about, but if you believe it, you're out there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Hey, come on, man.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're not a serious.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're not a serious thinker.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You do a bit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're not a serious thinker.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sixth president of the United States.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Huge Hollow Earth guy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right, but when was that?
unidentified		24.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		A couple years ago.
		Yeah.
		Is it that much different from what our president believes now?
		Everybody's crazy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		These people are fucking stupid.
		This is dumb.
		This is shocking.
		That's what I'm hearing from this is if you are listening to this and you're like, I want to buy this guy's water bottle, you're fucking dumb.
		This is dumb.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Or you're suggestible.
unidentified		I don't know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's other ways to get there other than dumb, I think.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You could be born into.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This takes a lot of dumb.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You could be born into some negative circumstances.
		Maybe you live in a small town.
		There's no way out.
		And you just sort of accept that sort of thing.
		I don't know.
		I don't think necessarily dumb comes into it.
		I feel like dumb is so judgmental.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I agree.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're victims.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's why I'm using that word.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're victims.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Just because you're dumb doesn't mean you can't be a victim.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And just because you're a victim doesn't mean you're dumb.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, but I also don't want to.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Or it doesn't mean you're not dumb.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to impugn the people who are caught up in the hustle when we're talking about the hustler.
unidentified		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I understand that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You wish better for them.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, that's true.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But at the same time, god damn it, that's dumb.
unidentified		It is.
unidentified		Not least of which because, and this is, again, something that we've talked about.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I want to be taken in.
		If I'm going to be taken in by a con man, I want to be taken in by a top-level con man.
		These guys are taking in the dumb.
		They're just taking advantage of other people's circumstances that they don't have any control over.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But because of those circumstances, it's possible that he is a good con man for them.
		You know what I'm saying?
		Like, some of the things that he's hitting on might trigger things in other people that it doesn't trigger in us.
		True.
		So, you know, all I'm trying to say, and I don't want this to be some sort of weird everything is relative kind of argument.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Some things are fairly relative.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And a good con man to you is not the same thing as a good con man to someone in, I don't know, Avase, Missouri, you know, like a tiny town of Missouri.
		You know, who knows?
		I say Avase because I used to go there when I was a kid.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There was a lot of portal activity there.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So much.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So much portal activity.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So we get back to the book of Enoch part.
		I don't think I made it clear necessarily why it's bad to be super into the book of Enoch.
		I'll get to it a little bit after this clip.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		He then, though, goes on to say this.
		Enoch says when it's going to happen.
		He says it's going to happen 70 generations after the flood.
		So if you know when the flood occurred, and what is the generation?
		Well, the generation based on Psalms 9010 is 70 years.
		So you would literally say, if I knew when the flood happened, I could go 70 generations of 70 years, which is 4,900 years, right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Good call.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Well, the most recent statistics, in fact, there's scientific groups that are working on this.
		They're called the Holocene Impact Group because they think a meteor hit the earth and that's what caused the flood because they have evidence of a great flood.
		They date this to 4,800 to 4,900.
		They date this to 2,800 to 2,900 B.C. What am I saying all these numbers for?
		Bottom line is if that is when the flood happened, you count 4,900 years later.
		It brings you to 2015, 2016, 2017.
		It brings you to right now when Enoch says those gates are going to open and the giants are going to come out.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Now, I thought they were already out of that.
unidentified		Whoa, you're going so fast.
		Our heads are spinning.
		So that's, all right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Whatever.
		I don't think the Holocene Impact Group is a reputable group of scientists that I've been able to glean.
		So if we say that 2,800 B.C. was when the flood happened, if we stipulate that in the argument and just say, whatever, this is tough to work out with the Book of Enoch because Enoch was Noah's great-grandfather, according to the Bible.
		And so you use the 70-year generations.
		If 2,800 B.C. BCE was when the flood happened, four generations back would be around 3000 B.C. was when Enoch would have been around.
		But the problem is, the Book of Enoch's oldest parts were written in 300 BC.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And then the most recent parts of them are dated to about 100 B.C. Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		When the flood happened.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't think that anyone makes the argument that Enoch wrote the Book of Enoch.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It was in the Enochian.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that would be gauche.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But it's in the Enochian tradition.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You don't name the book you write after yourself.
		That would be very huge.
		That would be narcissistic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Very idealistically, the rest of the Bible although it was.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, like, I'm not going to write a book called Jordan.
unidentified		Why not?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Because I would wait until somebody else wrote a book about me called Jordan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Come on.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hey, these sorts of ideas of modesty are modern.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't want to write a book, Dan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I want to live a life people want to write books about.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure, and that's fine.
unidentified		Thanks.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I also think it's fine for the Enoch thing because it's like, well, yes, if Enoch had written the book of Enoch, then that would be a severe, severe problem that the timeline of when he would have been alive is impossible for when the book was written.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The other problem is that he's only really referenced in a couple books in the Bible, only a couple times.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's maybe like three or four references to Enoch, one being that he was along with one of two people who ever didn't die.
		Like God brought him up to heaven.
		Yeah, yeah.
		Elijah is the other one.
		The two people who have never died are Elijah and Enoch.
		I believe that's in Genesis.
		There's a reference to him in Jude.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Jude.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hey.
		Hey, Jordan.
		There's no reference to him in parts of the Noah story, the story of the flood, the deluge.
		There's no.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It seems like he would talk about his great-grandpa at least once or twice because his great-grandfather predicted the flood happening.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It would seem incredibly relevant, but those stories of Noah and the flood were written before the book of Enoch.
		Right.
		So that's why those aren't in that book.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, they were also written before the book that told about the flood.
		Like, the flood myth has been around for some time.
		Anyways, yeah, let's move past that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm saying that this piece of the mythology would have been present in so many other places if it were some part that wasn't pseudepigrapha, something that was added through a pseudonym much later.
		The Enoch book is interesting.
		I like it.
		I think there's a lot of really interesting content in it.
		Yeah.
		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		My favorite part was when Hermione cast the spell in Enoch and turned him into a frog for a while, right?
unidentified		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Is that it?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Something, something Snape.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That is the best name to a sequel I've ever read.
unidentified		Yeah, something, something, Snape, and the something, something, Snape, and the.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm liking that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yada, yada, yada, and the golden snape or whatever.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Fucking twitch yourself.
		Yeah, get out of there.
		There's a reason that it's not included in the canon of the Bible.
		And that's something weird for me to say as someone who really doesn't give a shit and thinks there's weird stuff in the Bible.
		There's plenty of reason just based on biblical scholarship.
		If you look at the times that it was written, the fact that it was written over the course of 200 years, difference between the oldest parts and the newest parts, the fact that it comes from traditions that are outside of what's deemed mainstream Christianity.
		I get it.
		And the fact that he is bringing this in as a strong primary source means to me that he doesn't care about actual biblical scholarship.
		He cares about like, oh, this is fun.
		This sort of weaves into my already existing belief.
unidentified		But that's the way that they treat science shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's the way that they treat everything.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying to create that web.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm trying.
		No, you're helping.
		I'm trying to.
		God damn it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're helping.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Somehow you're frustrated with running a two-man game, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm not frustrated by it.
		It's just, I don't know.
		There's parts of me that think, like, maybe I should make this less obvious, what I'm saying.
		And then you come in and you're like, it's the exact same thing that they do with everything.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm trying to.
unidentified		My job is to make it as obvious as possible.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a fair point.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's what I do.
		Jesus.
		I just hate.
		I hate so much how these assholes spend all of their time demonizing scientists who are running CERN, trying to figure out how fucking matter works.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The mysteries of the universe.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And the moment they're like, oh, and as far as giants and portals go, there's a group of scientists who, look, you can't trust all the other scientists, but these guys confirm what you already know using science.
		So now whenever somebody disagrees with you with their science, guess what you have?
		Your own science.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Now, the fake science that you have has no backing in it at all.
		There's no double-blind studies.
		There's no peer reviewing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There's two cameras, though.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We got the more.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We got two cameras.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We got a lot about orbs.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		When was the last time CERN talked about orbs?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, get them.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Get him.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I actually know a guy who worked at CERN.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Weird.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I actually know a guy made of orbs.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
		Yeah.
		Is it what was that game?
		Spectre?
unidentified		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What was it?
		There's a Genesis game where there's a guy made of balls.
		Who cares?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, I actually know what you're saying.
		Yeah, now I know what you're talking about.
		I can't remember the name of it.
		Ballman.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		No, it was weird.
		This guy, when I used to run a comedy show, this guy used to come out to it every week, but he'd show up late.
		And we had a dance party afterwards, after the comedy show.
		He'd show up late, and then he was kind of probably like a mid-late 50s-year-old guy, kept to himself.
		He'd show up for like the last 20 minutes of the show and then dance like crazy.
		Love it.
		And so I was very confused by him, and I couldn't figure out what the fuck is going on with this guy.
		And so around that time, Mike Timlin, very funny comedian.
		Yes.
		Mike Timlin, he became one of our interns at that point.
		I was like, the first night, I grabbed him.
		I was like, Timlin, your first job is to find out what that guy's deal is.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because I want to ask him, and I fucking can.
		I can't emotionally do it.
		And I just need to know why he's here because he's not threatening.
		He wasn't dancing and grabbing on people.
		He wasn't a problem, but he confused the shit out of me.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is the first known abuse of an intern.
unidentified		No.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Very first one.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It worked for me.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		First time an intern has ever been abused like this.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So at the end of the night, Timlin comes over to me and he's like, Dan, I talked to him.
		And it turns out he works at the Hadron Collider, CERN.
		He's Swiss.
		He's on vacation.
		He's here for a season in Chicago.
		He's a long vacation.
		And he loves yoga.
		So he's late because he goes to yoga class, but likes to dance and also likes the show.
		Wishes he could come on time, but yoga class is more important.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot going on with that guy's life.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I was also like, Timlin, you are the best intern ever.
		You got all of the information that you've ever wanted.
		So I started talking to him.
		He's a super nice guy.
		We never really clicked, but the headline.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You and Timlin or Timlin clicked.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Great.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Not the CERN guy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Not the CERN guy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So the headliner on that show was, or maybe I don't remember if it was that show or a couple weeks later.
		Sean Flannery headlined.
		Very great comic here in Chicago.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Fantastic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Amazing storyteller.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Brilliant.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Amazing.
		So he headlined the show, and afterwards, he and this guy who worked at CERN ended up at the bar next to each other and became fast friends.
		And the guy who worked at CERN ended up doing the Blackout Diaries, Sean others.
		Awesome.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and the two of them.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The two of them have kept in touch.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's amazing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's fantastic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was a super nice guy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So that's the only story I have with CERN.
		The only story I have that relates to that is there is a karaoke bar, a tiki-themed karaoke.
		Oh, sure.
		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Is it on Belmont?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, There's too many Tiki themes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Karaoke bars.
		I think it was on Lincoln.
		And there is this guy who comes dressed in scrubs, which makes you think he comes directly from the hospital.
		Shoot it all or whatever.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Come on.
unidentified		All right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You let me get away with that?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		All right.
		But he fucking sings every third song.
		He goes hard.
		This dude, his entire life is wearing scrubs and singing these songs.
		And I've always wanted to ask him whether or not he actually worked at a hospital.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Or if it was just sort of an awesome song.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I've never, I never had the courage.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He was tiny.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's why you need Timlin.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He was like 5'4.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		If I had an intern, I would know everything about that guy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He was the best.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Tiny little man.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Best having Timlin to go ask people questions I couldn't ask.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We needed Timlin.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, God.
		Oh, Jesus.
		I should get back into stand-up so I could get an intern for this show.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Holy shit.
		Not going to do it.
		Bless you, by the way.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You know, I can't do it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No.
unidentified		I can't.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I can't convince an intern to help us out.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So, this has been fun.
		This has been the Dan and Jordan talk about stuff not related, strictly speaking, to the episode.
		Now, let's jump back in.
unidentified		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Jordan, I texted you, and I told you before the show that I have a damning piece of information.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		An incredibly damning piece of information that indicates to me that Jim Baker and Tom Horne have not in any way wrestled with what the Bible is, what its cultural historical context is.
unidentified		It's a book.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They know that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's from the past.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So, Tom Horne is on here, and he's hawking his translation of the Sepugeant.
		Sepuagint.
		You know what that is?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Jesus, man.
		What the hell?
		So, what it is, is it's.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You mocked me for making you, you condescended to me for calling people dumb, and now you're going to call me dumb like that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm not going to call you dumb.
		I just hope you notice.
		I don't have to explain it ahead of time.
		It's the earliest Greek translation of the Pentuck or the Torah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The first five books of the Old Testament.
		And then it added in over time.
		It was something that was worked on for years and added in a bunch of prophet books and what are it called Deuteronomical books.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sort of second.
		Those I got.
		So he's selling a translation into English of the Septuagint.
		Right.
		I pronounce that terribly, and I don't worry about it.
		It's weird.
		There's too many vowels in places you don't expect it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's fine.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They say something here that is deeply, deeply flawed.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So he wrote fanfiction.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I believe that his translation is probably actually accurate from the Greek of that.
		Okay.
		I would believe that.
		I'm not sure.
		I haven't read it.
		I haven't checked it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to go with fanfic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to say it's not a great translation, but I bet it's fine.
		Okay.
		But in this clip, Jim Baker says something in response to him talking about this Septuagint.
		And then something weird happens.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		So this would be the Bible that the disciples would have been reading from.
unidentified		Jesus.
		Jesus would have read.
		I mean, he is the word, but he would have read from Jesus.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		We're out of funds right now for Lori's house again, and we're just eking it out.
		We have like two weeks, and we can open the house.
		I mean, two weeks.
		I mean, it's not going to be open, but we're going to have permit from the fire marshal to go in.
unidentified		Right.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		In two weeks, Lori.
		If we can just finish a few more things.
		I've got to get some water faucets on, too, as well.
		We need about 200,000 to finish it all.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's so weird.
		It's so weird to have an entire episode where they discuss the reality of portals and reptiles with halos.
		And then they're like, once the fire marshal gives us the permit, I have thumbs in.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We just need faucets.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Once we get faucets.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We need $200,000.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		$200,000 for faucets.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And that ad pivot was hard.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That was hard.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So much that you missed the turn over you yelling.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think it'll still come up in the audio, but he was like, he's talking about the Septuagint.
		And he's talking about this is what the disciples read.
		And then Laurie is like, isn't that amazing?
		Listen.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Listen.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		That's what I was saying.
		Well, because he was just telling her to shut the fuck up.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, because his old-ass mind is so like, oh, I've got on the thought that I need to sell.
		Yeah.
		Shut up, woman.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We need to sell.
		I need to make that house that's named after you.
		It's crazy.
		So The ad pivot aside, and we'll get to, in the next clip, we'll get into like this being incredibly fucked up.
unidentified		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is the Bible.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is where we're talking about the Bible that Jesus would have read.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So, Jim and Tom are both suggesting that the Septuagint is some sort of different scripture or pure scripture.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And they're saying that it's the one that the apostles read.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's the pre-Bible Bible.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is a deeply flawed idea.
		The biggest problem is that most of, if not all, of Jesus' disciples were illiterate.
		Professor of theology at the University of London, Catherine Hesler, estimates the literacy rate at the time and area when the apostles were alive would have been approximately 3%, almost entirely made up of what you would call the cultural elite, the priests and academics of the day, of which the disciples were definitely not.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Specifically and purposefully not.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You had Andrew, Peter, James, and John, who were all fishermen, who would 100% not know how to read.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They were fisher of men.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's why that metaphor is used, because most of his disciples were fucking fishermen, because in Galilee, they had a very vibrant fishing economy.
		It's crazy.
		There were some indications that Judas was previously a thief, which doesn't require education.
		Matthew was a tax collector, but that position was actually what it entailed in its proper historical context is less someone who audits spreadsheets or does accounting, and is more someone who literally takes coins from people and delivers them to someone else, more of a courier, or even just someone who sits at a booth when people come and bring them money, as he's described to be in Matthew 9.
		Simon is described as a zealot, which likely means that he was a political agitator against the Roman government, which is more of a rabble-rousing kind of thing compared to political activists that we're used to today, most of whom know how to read.
		Back then, it was more just like a, hey, fuck you!
		I'm going to throw a rock!
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Ah!
unidentified		Zell it!
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The rest of them were likely fishermen, but it's unspecific for a bunch of the dudes in Jesus' posse.
		The assumption is fairly safe, though, is the Bible describes Thomas and Bartholomew being caught off guard fishing at some point.
		And like I said, Galilee was a major fishing port back then.
		It was a big piece of the economy.
		And the idea that one of the most famous scriptures and the famous sayings of Jesus is, I will make you fishers of men, doesn't really make sense unless you're talking to a bunch of fishermen.
		And that is the profession for most of his.
		They would not have known how to read.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They knew how to tie knots, though, Dan, and that's all you needed.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So the idea that Jim Baker is selling this and Tom Horne is selling this Septuagint as being what the apostles would have read is fucking horseshit.
		They don't know how to read.
		They didn't know how to write.
		And a lot of people might be saying, well, how did they write the books that are ascribed to them?
		They didn't.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you take that to its next logical conclusion, they didn't write those books.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Except for, and not any of the synoptic gospels, but Paul was almost certainly.
		I believe Saul or Paul was almost literally based on, but some of the letters that are ascribed to Paul, definitely he didn't write.
		Right.
		Even along the lines of like all of the everything in the Bible wasn't written by the person that they say it was.
		Almost across the board.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Fantastically, Jesus, most people believe to be either a rabbi or the like, a misrepresentation of a rabbit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He was most likely able to read.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's possible.
		There's actually two main culprits, I believe, in terms of historical Jesus.
		I haven't looked into this in a long time.
		This is based on drunk conversations I had with professors who my dad's friends with.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So from my understanding, what most biblical scholars believe is that there are conflations of who Jesus was And that the Jesus who got crucified is not the same Jesus who said all the sayings that are really popular.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The Jesus who said all the sayings was a rabbi around that time.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's mentioned in Josephus, who was absolutely literate because he's part of the priest class.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Now, the Jesus who got crucified around that time was a criminal named Jesus.
		And throughout time, those two personas have been blended into one.
		Now, I don't know if that's totally true.
		That's just something that's something that was passed on to me by professors.
		Could be wrong.
		They also weren't saying that's 100% the truth.
		It's just what indications are because the historical record around then of that would match what's said in the Bible is thin.
		There isn't a ton that matches up.
		So you have to sort of make piecemeal out of it.
		In the same way that if you're reading the Dead Sea Scrolls, you've got to fill in gaps.
		And scholars know how to do that much better than dumbass Tim Horne.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And if you're writing a book about a guy several hundred years after he was already dead, you just start picking and choosing what you want.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, Tom Horne does.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So now, more importantly, I think, I mean, the biggest thing I want to say is that the fact that fucking none of these dudes are being like, the apostles couldn't read.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You know, like, that's just the truth of.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You would never accept that.
		So many modern Christians today would never, ever accept that the apostles weren't anything other than the exemplary human beings of the day.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		How could you believe that literacy is the norm?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		How could they write those letters, Dan, if they didn't know how to read, huh?
		Is it just a bunch of X's?
		Everybody knows all the epistles were written by all the apostles at the time that they say that makes sense?
unidentified		No, it's not a psychological epistle, apostle, call it a day.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		You say epistle.
		I say apostle.
		Call the whole thing off.
		The thing of, like, actual writership and stuff like that is all...
unidentified		Oh, yeah, no.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		A lot of it's sort of...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		None of them wrote any of that shit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Joggling balls.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But, like I said, while you were on that riff, you know, like...
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The Epistle of the Apostle riff?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That one.
unidentified		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We assume that literacy is so common now that it must have always been.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And it's not.
		And also, it's not now everywhere.
		But the Septuagint is nothing special.
		He's selling it as if it's like a purer version of Scripture.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's the original Bible.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's what the apostles would have read.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's the hipster's Bible.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They say that over and over and over again.
		It is nothing special at all.
		All it is is a name given to the translation of the Pentateuch or the Torah, which later grew to include many of the rest of what would be the Old Testament, like Joshua, Judges, Ruth, and the like.
		It also contained books that we later sent to the pseudepigrapha, like Tobit and 1st through 4th Maccabees.
		The Septuagint is nothing special, really.
		It's just a collection and translation of already existing religious texts and writings that was the result of a project started in approximately 300 BCE that's concluded around 132 BCE.
		The name is derived from a story of how it came into being.
		Allegedly, Ptolemy of Egypt requested 72 rabbis translate their texts for him into Greek from the original Hebrew so he could have a copy in the Library of Alexandria.
		Magically, because God, each of these 72, working independently, created identical copies of the translation.
		This story is generally thought by scholars to be bullshit because it traces back to the letter of Aristeas, which, due to dating of styles and textual clues, almost certainly could not have been written by the person it claims to be written by.
		Princeton Theological Seminary professor Bruce Metzger described the letter thus.
		Quote, Most scholars who have analyzed the letter have concluded that the author cannot have been the man he represented himself to be, but was a Jew who wrote a fictitious account in order to enhance the importance of the Hebrew scriptures by suggesting that a pagan king had recognized their significance and therefore arranged for their translation into Greek.
		So, most view the letter of Aristeas, which has the kernel, the beginning of the story of the Septuagint, as being one of the early examples of religious propaganda.
		So that's fun too.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Hey guys.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All of this is fun.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You're con men.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They are conin based on the cons from way back when.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But the cons back then make more sense, I think, a little bit.
		Really?
		Do you think so?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Con's a con, man.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What do you mean they make more sense?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Con's a con.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're clearly much more successful.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's much more.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's interesting, though.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're harder to see through.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think that's distance, right?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like, isn't it easier to see through Scientology than it is to see through Christianity?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's just because it's old.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It requires scholars and people who understand context telling you.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Whereas with Scientology, you're just like, well, that's fucking stupid.
		What are you talking about?
		Aliens drove B52 bombers?
		You're fucking stupid.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Or how easy it is to see through Jim Baker as opposed to some religious figure, even in Christianity from the 1700s or something.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So, Jordan?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's just interesting.
		It really is to know that this con has been going on for thousands of years.
		It's the same fucking con.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, why is it?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		People have different angles on it back then, and also now, there's various cons being played, sort of.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's a con that's evolved, but ultimately what it is, is it's a short circuit of the human brain.
		Right.
		There is something that the human brain simply cannot get past, and that's why this con works.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So you see so many people getting conned in the same way, and you can take comfort in the fact that people like this have been getting conned since the birth of humanity.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And the con always ends up being about money.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It always.
		Or it could also be about sex.
		That's also true.
		A lot of cons are about banging.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but there's some money in that, too, I think, somehow.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But some cachet, if you will.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
		I don't know.
		Look, putting that aside, at the end of the last clip, before we got off on that, Jim doesn't understand that the apostles were illiterate and what the Septuagint is really, he said that they need $200,000 more dollars to open Lori's house.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You've got to put those sinks in.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He made that harsh advice.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Fire Marshal won't even give them the go-ahead without those $200,000 sinks.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And now it makes it that much weirder that he says this.
		He starts preaching towards the end of this stretch.
		This is really fucked up.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Can you do that?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You just talked about aliens, portals, demon reptiles, and then you're going to try and preach?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But it's more, like, all that stuff put aside.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's more important that very recently, a couple minutes earlier on the show, he was asking for $200,000 to finish Lori's house.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Okay, here we go.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		The sun and the moon's going to be darkened.
unidentified		Yeah.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		We are here now, folks.
		And you must get this book, too.
		You must get the path of the immortals.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Why?
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		This is for any inquiring mind, anybody who really wants to dig in, and this is Bible.
		Back it up.
		Y'all don't believe all that stuff.
		Well, find out.
		Read the Bible.
		Find it.
		See if it's in the Bible.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The portals.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		You know, we've got to start stopping.
		We've got to stop letting people in the pulpit tell us what is right and what is wrong and what is God and what is not God without checking it to make sure.
		Because we have a whole generation that loves money more than anything else.
		Literally, we have in the church in the last several decades, we have become lovers of money.
		And the Bible says that the root of all evil is the love of money.
		And so we have changed the word of God.
		We have another gospel today.
		And the real gospel, nobody really wants it because it says come and die.
		That's a rough start right there.
unidentified		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That is the most, that is, if you are not going to say this as soon as I am, that is the most Alex Jonesian thing that he could ever have done.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It is immediately.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That wasn't what I was going to say.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, immediately.
		First thing he says, right?
		You can't trust anybody unless you go verify it in the Bible.
		Now, of course, I'm telling you it, so you don't need to go check it out.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I've already multiple times on this episode said things that are ludicrous biblically.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And because I said them, and then because I told you to go check whether or not I said them, you can trust that I am confident that you will go check what I say.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So you don't even need to go check what I say because we both know that you already checked what I say, even though you didn't need to.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's the maybe second thing I would point out about that clip.
unidentified		Then we get to the money part.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The money part is a Alex Jones to the fucking T. Jim, you went to fucking prison for scamming people for money.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		All people want these days is money.
unidentified		We've got a generation of people who love money.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		These millennials with their money grubbing, all they want is money.
		I mean, most of them haven't gone to prison for frauding people.
		But they want the money.
		I just have to live in their world.
		And I know how to live in their world because the Bible told me to take their money.
		And you don't even need to check on that because you can read it.
		That's in the Bible.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's also saying that in the church for the last couple decades.
unidentified		The church.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's been people who are into money.
		It's like, hey, Joel Alstein, Jim, a couple decades ago, he went to prison for that.
		Don't bring up yourself into this.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also, what about all the prosperity gospel people that you have on your show as guests who talk about seeds?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like Paula White Kane was very clearly doing prosperity gospel shit on his show, as every guest of his does.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I know you are, but what am I, Dan?
		Man, it's crazy.
		No, you are, but what am I?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy to me.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, what are you saying, man?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		All right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Now, in that regard, based on what you just said, please accept me when I say if you buy that shit, you're dumb.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's pretty dumb.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's dumb.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, but if you hear that and you're like, wait.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		If you're not like, if you don't have any.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		If you don't even have a second of like, maybe this guy.
		You know what?
		I still believe.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This guy fucking clearly loves money.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He kind of loves money.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Did he just say he needed 200 grand for faucets and then bitched about how everybody else was all about money?
unidentified		It's weird.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Weird.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Gets even weirder in this next clip.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		The very four horsemen of the apocalypse, really.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Scrambling.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		The last one is there's going to be death by the disease from the animals.
		What is HIV-AIDS?
		Where does it come from?
		From the animals.
		Coming from the animals.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What?
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		I thought elephants were going to kill people or lions or tigers.
		But it was one word.
		One word was wrong.
		And we have a lot of doctrine built on one word.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't understand what that means, but it's not that important.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's so weird, but we'll talk about it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I just want to know why he thought alias.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Why did he pick elephants?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Why were elephants going to kill people?
		I can tell you that what he said before that clip started doesn't explain it.
		I have no idea.
unidentified		Elephants?
unidentified		Hold on.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Why elephants?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hold on.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		We have people that are trying to say it.
		Above all, God wants you to be rich.
		Yeah, I know I bore you with that thought, but it's not rich.
		It is not in the Bible.
		It is not in the Bible.
		Above all, God does not want you to be rich.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Holy shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What the fuck is happening?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		See, this is the other car that's gone off the rails now.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's easier for a rich man to get through the eye of a needle than it is for him to get into heaven, Dan.
		That's just fact.
		That is just fact.
		The Bible says that.
		And that is why I need $200,000 for these fucking sinks.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Do you understand that what he's doing is he's basically refuting a lot of the ideas that he generally preaches.
		The idea that it's a seed you're planting.
		You give me money.
		It's coming back.
		That sort of thing.
		He does that a bit, as do most of his guests.
		He's refuting that and saying, God doesn't want you to be rich.
		You should give all the money here.
		It's going to be better that way.
		It makes me feel like he's in trouble in May 2015.
		Like maybe he doesn't need that $20,000 for the sinks.
		Maybe he owes back taxes or something like that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's entirely possible.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is about after he filed.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's not a 401c now, is he?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He's not a church.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He is.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, he's still got to pay taxes.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There's no way he gets tax-exempt status.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Man, it would be wild if he went to prison for fraud.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You don't then just get to jump back into tax-exempt status.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And his church is very political.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Profit-based.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And profit-based.
		I did the same thing with that Courtney Brown with the Farside Institute.
		There's two organizations.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, one's called the Farsai Institute.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Come on, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The thing is crazy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I love that we've added Jim Baker because Jim Baker is the performance.
		He's low stakes.
		So, no, no, the way that I see the.
		We previously did Alex and Carrie, right?
		And to me, Alex is so money motivated that it's kind of boring at a certain extent.
		And Carrie is money-motivated, but she also has a little bit more of that love of the game to her.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, much more.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		She likes being, she likes just being, she likes being wild for being wild's sakes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right, right, right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Jim Baker is the perfect mix of the two.
		That is the most hungry, money-grubbing man.
		And at the same time, he's like, fuck yeah, let's talk about reptoids.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Disagree.
		Well, yeah, I agree with that part in terms of the mix of the two.
		Yeah.
		But the thing is, so one time, I don't know.
		This is just a thought that came to me.
		So I don't like a lot of Wes Anderson movies, generally speaking.
		I think a lot of them are too twee, too cute.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		All of these are fair criticisms.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't like the idea that in a lot of them children act like adults.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think that's stupid.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's a Salinger thing.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Whatever.
		Be that as it may, one time I was talking to my brother about it, and he said that one of the things that he really appreciates when you look at the bigger body of Wes Anderson's work is that most of the movies, you could take them and they embody the spirit of being a certain age.
		So you take like give me the movie, I'll tell you the age you're at.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Let's go.
		Well, let's start at the beginning.
		Bottle rocket.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Bottle rocket is when you're in your aimless 20s.
unidentified		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You're like, I should have amounted to something, and I didn't.
unidentified		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And you're sort of struggling through.
		You're like, well, maybe I'll become a bank robber.
		There is that sort of thing where it's maybe possible that that's the life for you, and you entertain stupid possibilities, and that spirit is encaptured in Bottle Rocket.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		All right, Moonrise Kingdom.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Moonrise Kingdom is when you are like 12 and you fall in love with somebody, and it seems so epic when it's really not.
		They play out the theme of it being like this profound, beautiful thing that you have to fight for when in reality it's not.
		It's the idea of your first love is embodied in Moonrise Kingdom.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Okay, Magnificent Mr. Fox.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's real early childhood.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's sort of like that one I kind of don't buy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I have not seen that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That one's a different story.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I haven't seen that one.
unidentified		You did.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And also.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And also, this theory was pitched to me before that came out.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		All right.
		So I assume you have a prepared answer for.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		None of this is prepared.
		You have a prepared answer for Royal Ten and Bombs and Royal Ten and Bombs is one of the things that you are watching your parents get old.
		And you are now, your whole life has become like the disillusionment of the past generation.
		And then the life aquatic is when you come to the end of your career and you realize you're no longer useful in the way that you used to be.
		That sort of struggle.
		So each of his movies have like this profound, not rite of passage necessarily, but this pivot point in people's lives.
		These really profound moments.
		And that allowed me to appreciate some of the movies more.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		In a way that you didn't previously.
		Yeah, and I appreciate it.
		Because just in the watching of the movie, you're kind of like, this is twee bullshit.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And it's not like I hated them, but I didn't like them that much.
unidentified		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And I appreciated that theory very much.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And the only reason I bring this up, and this has been fucking long-winded as hell, is that I think what we have is different periods in a propagandist's career depicted by these three.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You just tied that all together fantastically.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We have Carrie, who's, I mean, in age, they're all probably around the same.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, pretty much.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because Alex is.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, Alex is younger than Jim Baker.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he is.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Jim Baker is like 100.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		How old is Jim Baker?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's Methuselah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He's a million years old.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That guy's going to be conning long after we're dead, right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Alex is presumably 45 or something like that.
		But whatever.
		Carrie is in her 50s, probably, and Jim Baker's 70s.
		Age aside, you have Carrie still hungry.
		She's still out there searching for the church.
		She's all money-motivated.
		So that part is sort of you take that as red.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Hey, it's the capitalist system.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You have Carrie, and she's crazy and still like, I will talk to.
		Like, I texted you earlier.
		I listened to an episode today where she was interviewing a guy who was a dishwasher about how he created a warp drive.
		Why would you do that unless you're fucking hungry and you're hoping that he's not lying?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You're going for it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's a big swing you're going to miss most of the time, but a couple times it's going to be a home run.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		She's willing to take those.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		She's the Adam Dunn of conspiracy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		She's willing to take those cuts.
		Then you got Alex Jones, who is just like, I'm in the middle of this.
		I've made some mistakes.
		I'm a shithead.
		Whatever.
		I don't care.
		I've fallen in with the wrong crowd.
		I'm in the middle of this.
		I'll try and probably get redemption later.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He's resigned.
		Currently, he's resigned.
		He's like, this is my fate, and I am resigned to it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And then Jim Baker is the guy who's waiting to die.
		He's over the hill.
		He's still just doing this because it's what he knows how to do.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And is decently good at it to some extent.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you go to prison for it and then you go back to doing it, that is what's called recidivism.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That is exactly what that's called.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He kind of doesn't give a shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is the only thing I know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's in his late career.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's the Steve Zizu of the cons.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Not bad.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Way to bring it back.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		So there is that.
		I appreciate that picture of these people, different stages of the con.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But not the con.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The life of the con.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The con is the same.
		It's just the growth chapters of the con.
		Where's our Marjo?
		We need to find our young con.
		We need to find our millions of them.
		Well, yeah.
		I mean, we got the other assholes, but they're too angry now.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's true.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I want a con.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I want a young con who's got who's selling a message of hope.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's hard to find that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Because all of the young cons now are all about and we're going to kill everybody and get them fired from Disney or whatever the f it is they do now.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well the the um the twisting of the right wing has really hurt the con business.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It has hurt the con bus.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Because it's become almost a magnet for those people because they realize how easy it is to get your shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's not hard.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You get your shit reposted like crazy if you just say the right inflammatory things.
		Yeah.
		And so these people very like if you are a con person, you're obviously more motivated by publicity, more motivated by traction than you are from actually substance.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So our young conners are like the Fox News 21-year-olds.
		But there's like the, is it Laura Loomer or something like that?
		Isn't she?
		She doesn't know what that is.
		What are the ones that are like Laura Loomer doesn't have a career?
		No, it's the it's the what's the one who fucking eh never mind.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't need to know their name Sammy Loran.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Tommy Loran.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yes, her.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		She's the young con.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		She's not even a con person.
		She's just a talking head on TV.
		She couldn't do it on her own.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, no, that's true.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So you could say like a Ben Shapiro or something like that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but that guy sucks.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He's shitty at the con.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's not playing the exact same game.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And there's also other difficulties, too.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is our spin-off show.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Dan and Jordan rate whether or not somebody could become a good con.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Do they have the chops?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, do they got the chops?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Trying to think.
		I don't know, man.
		Like, there's a looking at people who come up on Infowars from time to time, I can't think of anybody who's got the goods.
		Like Owen Schroer doesn't have.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I'm also thinking about guests.
		If there's anybody who he's had on who's like, well, there's a spark of something here.
		There's nobody.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Do you think it might be?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The other problem, too, that I think is important is that if you're going to become a legit con person in the vein of the trio that we talk about, one of the most important pieces is that you need a backup support system.
		So for Carrie, it's people like Mark Richards.
		It's people like a weirdo from England who bangs around with an alien.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		You need a cast of Rebels.
		You need Ocean's 11.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		For Alex, it's Steve Pieczenik.
		Now Roger Stone.
		Before that, Larry Nichols, Gerald Salenti, all these guys.
		Paul Craig Roberts.
		For Jim Baker, it's all these weird prosperity gospel preachers that come in like the Tom Horns and Lee.
		Theory.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Theory.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Steve.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Our generation of the con is crowdsourced.
		Our generation of the con, our greatest con men, are like your 4chans.
		Like, it's a collective.
		It's a hive mind con.
		That's who's coming up.
		It's the 14 and 15-year-olds.
		It's the 25-year-olds.
		It's the 35-year-olds.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's the 35-year-olds pretending they're 14-year-olds.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		Who are on 4chan, who are just writing fanfic and then throwing it out into the world, and they all amplify it together.
		I don't think we're going to have that same charismatic con.
		All of our charismatic leaders are going to be on the other side.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Or because of what I was talking about earlier with the magnetization of all this to the right.
		Because it's not happening towards the left.
		You have people on the left who are conning, presumably, ostensibly on the left.
		People like the Louise Menches of the left.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But that's so minor.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's not a Minor to the larger conversation of what the left is.
		I don't think that there is, I don't think there are valid media folks on the left who are doing the con.
		Right.
		As it were.
		I think there are fringe voices like her.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But if you're on the left and you're kind of fighting against the con, like the con is ultimately a right-wing grift.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The con is always a.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't think it always has been.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, but it's always, the con is always: I'm going to convince you to act against your own interests by making you think that your interests are the interests of me.
unidentified		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's the con.
		So like if you want to go with your like Alexandria, you know, she is not.
		She could fucking con the shit out of people, but she's on the left.
		And so her idea is, I'm going to take your interests and I'm going to make them my interests, and thus we're all going to be moving forward.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Maybe.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The reason that I have paused is that I don't think that that's always been the tableau where the left is.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, Don't disagree.
		Yeah, yeah.
		Don't extrapolate that too far.
		I'm talking about now.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I think even as early as like five years ago, that might not have been the case.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You know what I mean?
unidentified		You think so?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think there are still media figures on the left who are trying to make a lot of like a fucking and a lot of them, though, they're more entrenched in like magazine journalism or something.
		They don't have radio shows in the same way as the guys on the right.
		But that's probably just because that's where they got a gig, as opposed to the right wing is so entrenched in the media sphere through the Koch brothers funding and what have you.
		I don't know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's an interesting conversation for another day.
		More we could spend hours on what are we fantasy drafting con men?
		Is that what we're doing?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think a little bit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I think we are.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But we can't because you're right in a way that I wasn't expecting.
		Not like I think you're dumb or wrong, but I do think that there's something to be said for that, the idea of the crowdsourcing the con in terms of these message boards and shit.
		But here's what I think in reality is there will rise some other con man on YouTube or in some form.
		I don't know.
		Could make his own channel or something like that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is a Dan prophecy is what this is.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I just expect is probably the most natural progression.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		History rhymes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, but the thing is that you have examples of this that have hit the wall already.
		People like a Mike Cernovich or something like that.
		But there will be someone who creates their own thing, and it won't be that the 4chans, the Reddits, all that stuff, all that crowdsourcing will be the con.
unidentified		But that will be unnamed the backdrop for the con.
unidentified		That'll be your Pachenic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That'll be your stone.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		4chan.
		But the problem with that, and the reason why I think that is an unsustainable economy, is because what makes it work with Pachenic, what makes it work with Roger Stone, is that they will show their face and talk.
		They will be on the show and say things that Alex can use as this is evidence of blank.
		Whereas if you have a message board that's this hive mind that, again, you're right, is creating fanfic, basically.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You can't really bring them on as guests unless you just make them all anonymous representatives of that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And that doesn't carry the same weight.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But that's when we start getting into rhizome theory.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I would say so.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We have arrived at rhizome theory.
		Everybody drink.
		We all knew we would eventually.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Fair enough.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Fair enough.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, I am interested in what you were saying.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The most obvious thing that everybody could think.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Now we're into rhizome theory.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That joke on my part was 100% me trying to bail myself out of being very confused about the connection you're making.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no, no.
		I mean, the most popular version of rhizome theory is like Ghost in the Shell.
		Like that kind of concept.
		Out of 4chan, out of this nebulous mass of HiveMind will come a representative of that who will be the face of it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, we already have that with QAnon.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But there will be a person who is the embodiment of this QAnon who – never mind.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, that'll happen once we're able to really perfect this facial recon.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, there might actually be a fake.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's like that Al Pacino movie.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like that Al Pacino movie.
unidentified		There we go.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Scent of a woman.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Now we know.
		I was going to go with Devil's Advocate, but all right.
		All right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Let's get back on.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, oh, no, that's right.
		That's right.
		Hold on.
		Weren't we talking about CERN at some point?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		At some point.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We've mostly moved past CERN, but CERN will come back up.
		But before we get there, just to put a button on all that that we were talking about before we went off on that tangent.
		Dude, Jim Baker, shut the fuck up.
		You are the archetypical example of someone using religion to make money.
		So you coming on and being like, there's a disease about loving money.
		You're still doing it.
		Just like you are the archetypical example because of when you went to prison, and now you're still doing it, baby.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And that's why that one lady goes on and says, if it weren't for you, you were the trailblazer.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		If it weren't for you, you paved the way, man.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		For the people who can scam like crazy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		If it weren't for you, we wouldn't have to deal with fucking Joel Osteen, you fucking asshole.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Now, so here's an interesting thing.
		Before we get back to this clip, I don't know why I need to extend this, but the con that we're talking about.
		I think Paula White Cole is doing a really Pauly White Kane a great job with the con in many ways in terms of her doing the prosperity gospel stuff.
		And she's worked herself into the president's ear.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We're all going to die.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But she's not doing the con right.
		Because before we did that episode, you had no idea who she was.
		Well, I'm guessing most of our listeners had no idea who she was.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That was exactly what I was about.
		When you brought her name up, I was like, I didn't know who she was until you said it.
		So, yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think she's pretty much into the influence side of the con and not so much into the PR side of the conversation.
		Right, the performative side.
		And that means that she's not in the con.
		She's a power player who is very, very clear.
		Like, once she starts talking, you know the game.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But she's someone who's more interested in beltway politics and trying to.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		She's an influencer.
		She's like the Instagram con.
		Where it's like, if you follow her, she's got sponsored content that you don't know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like that kind of embedded content, which is very clear to anyone who's not a fucking ding-dong.
		Yeah, absolutely.
		I think it's a different kind of con.
		I don't think it's fair to put it in the same world as.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's an internet con.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's an offshoot.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		All right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So anyway.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We're still doing the show, right?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
		One of the things that we always talk about is trying to connect these worlds to each other, which I think we've done a decent job in these derivations that we've gone off on.
		But I would just say that here's another one where Tom, boy, this sounds like something that could just be said on Alex's show.
		Or Project Camelot.
		Any of them, really.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		But sometimes they become the portal.
		And that was what happened with the Watchers.
		They wanted a methodology.
		They wanted a way of leaving their fixed estate.
		That's what Peter says.
		That's what Jude says.
		Those angels, which kept not their fixed habitation, their estate.
		They wanted to enter into our reality.
		They had to come up with a way of doing that because they didn't want to be like demons.
		They didn't want to just possess somebody in whom the spirit of man still dwelt.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That would be bullying.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		They wanted incarnation.
		This was an affront to God.
		And they figured out.
		Now, these angels couldn't speak into existence like God can, but they participated in creation.
		They knew at least as much about genetics as our scientists do today.
		So, what does all of the ancient records say?
		They came down, they took the genetics of women, the genetics of animals, and created a unique biological entity into which a man's spirit wouldn't be because it wasn't a man.
		The character of an animal wouldn't go into it because it wasn't a cow.
		It was something entirely outside of the divine order.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So he said that, and I was listening, and I'm like, is my boy talking about chimeras?
		Is my boy talking about chimeras?
		I'm asking you, Jordan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You think he's a little bit.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		You think my boy's talking about chimeras?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I think he's talking about genetic fucking alterations.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This seems chimera-adjacent.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So hard.
		Angels couldn't speak things into existence.
		However, they do know the basic amino acid structure and thus are capable of altering genes in order to create.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Hey, by the way, I would say the end result is the same.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		God, hey, hold on.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Don't you dare say that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I would say.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You can't just speak amino acids into existence.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I would say, like, if God's lying in the sand is like, you can do the same thing as me, but I can just go wah and do it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like, I don't know.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Not sure.
unidentified		Not sure this is a good division of powers.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I think that if I were God, I would say, hey, I'm going to reserve that power for myself.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You'd be a shit god.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		These fucking watchers have found workarounds.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They've found pathways.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Anytime you get really into the weeds of theology, sooner or later, they always point out loopholes in their own belief system.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Not true.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		When you get really into the weeds of theology, scholars, they don't.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, no, no, no.
		No, of course.
		No, of course.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They talk about the translations of various words on interesting things.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They're boring as shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		They're nerds.
		Yeah.
		No, when you get in with these guys, it's always like they create this, they create this bullshit God.
		And then this God is dumb enough to have then created bullshit loopholes that allow the dumb things that this dumb God has created to then make God look dumb.
		It's dumb.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I didn't want my minions to do X, but I created them with all of the abilities to do X.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Now, their argument to that would be that God is super into free will.
unidentified		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And the idea is that you're supposed to choose not to do that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And I'm pretty sure Calvin would disagree.
		I'm pretty sure that there's a lot of people.
		What about – he's not real, Dan.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's not real.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's a double entonto, by the way.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Are you talking about the Leviathan?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
		Yeah.
		So I was thinking, like, as I listened to that, like I said, my boy talking about chimeras?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, he's talking about chimera.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't clear.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's not a cow?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Not a cow.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So it's not an animal.
unidentified		Nope.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's not a person.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So it's not a person.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Something's got to get in there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But it's something in between.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and that means that angel souls or whatever can get in there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Elephants.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's why they were going to kill us.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Could be.
unidentified		That's it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		One word was wrong.
		That'll plague me.
		I don't know what he was talking about.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What word was wrong?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Does he not explain it?
unidentified		Nope.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No content.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I thought for sure we were going to get that word.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Zero context.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Nope.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You can't just say one word was wrong and then not say what that word was.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, because he started jumping off into like everyone wants money.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's where he took that line of thought.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This guy's fucking insane.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Anyway, here's where it's really clear they're talking about chimeras.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Now ask yourself what's happening in science around the world today, in transhumanism, in laboratories around the world, here in the United States of America, here in Missouri.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		We are creating animals with human DNA inside.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's not from Missouri.
		Wow, he's not from Missouri because if he was and he had this voice, he would have said Missouri.
		I know that much right off the top.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Inside them at the University of Missouri.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Yes, we are.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Spider goats.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's my alma mater.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I can tell you with almost categorical certainty, they are not doing it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		100% making chimeras right now.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They are not.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		100% making chimps.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Spider goats.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They don't have anywhere near the funding for that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Not goats, not spiders.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Spider goats.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		For xenotransplantation experiments.
		This is happening all across the world.
		The Academy of Medical Sciences published a booklet, 150-page booklet.
		If somebody emails me, I'll send it to them.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's actually a book.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		150-page in which they call it containing human material, human-animal chimeras.
		And they assert that they are being created by the thousands in laboratories around the world.
		And some of them, they say, reaching human cognition.
		Animals that begin questioning, who am I?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Where did I come from?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sad eyes.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		They're a god.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		And they even allege.
unidentified		They're sad eyes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We've got to pause there because we've got to let this one go.
		No, we're going to finish the rest of this clip.
		Exactly.
		You know why he's saying that?
		Because he's friends with Steve Quayle.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Who said the same thing to Alex.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All of this goes back to Steve Quayle.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		God damn it.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Alleged that they've created animal humans that have the ability to cross-breed with natural humans.
		If this isn't the days of Noah, if this isn't a repeat of the sin of the watchers, I don't know what is.
		But once again, you say you opened the show yesterday saying, how many churches would know if I said, what about CERN?
		What do you know about CERN?
unidentified		Right?
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		How many people know that in thousands of laboratories around the world, we are creating human-animal chimeras?
		They're supposed to be destroyed at the embryonic level, but research in Great Britain from their equivalent of the FDA says they're not all being destroyed.
		There's literal islands of Dr. Moreau.
		These would be like a new form of Nephilim.
		What is it that's in them?
		If they're not animal, if they're not human, what is it that's in them?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is just a less charismatic version of Alex.
unidentified		Yeah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is the same thing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This is a bummer.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also, I hate to be petty, but it would be the islands of Doctors Moreau.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Much like it's Attorneys General.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, I got you.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		This is just another example of them warping things about science that are weird.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What are these fucking people doing?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's all just Steve Quayle shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		Read a book.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, he unfortunately read a book.
		It was written by Steve Quayle.
		So I told you we're going to get back to CERN, and in this next clip we do.
		And this is pretty fun.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		When the angel comes down with the key to the bottomless pit, opens it up, and it says they have a king over them down there, which is Papadon, which is called in the Greek tongue Apollyon Apollo.
		And of course, that's the spirit that's going to come up and inhabit the Antichrist.
		So to build this machine that wants to open a door into another universe right where the ancients said the Apolliacom was located is just some kind of unnerving, right?
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
unidentified		Wow, that is.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, wow is correct.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		The other part of that is that's fucking dumb.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		What does CERN mean?
unidentified		Does it have a translation, the name do you guys know?
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		C-E-R-N.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		I know it originally had initials in the chat.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		I used to know.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		I forget.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		First of all, the long pause, and then I used to know, I forget.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Not great.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Not great.
jim bakker ▲ ● ▼		Well, it used to have initials.
unidentified		That's right.
unidentified		CERN, it was a French acronym.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Right.
unidentified		Now, a lot of people said, you know, well, CERN doesn't really mean anything, and essentially people thought that it didn't.
		Like I said, it was a French acronym, and they realized, you know, this acronym is just kind of silly.
		So they actually ditched the acronym, and they kept the name CERN.
		So my question is, what does CERN mean?
		Could it have, I mean, could it be connected to something else as well?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		Well, it's interesting that in the Wiccan faith, there are two main deities, and the main deity is called the Horned God or Hearn the Hunter.
		And this horned god, if you look back to the conventional name given to it by the CELTS, am I saying that right?
		No, CELTS, the name given to this deity is CERN, Yanus.
		And it's actually the god of the underworld.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So he has read a blog.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That is the most wild, disconnected bullshit I think I've heard from somebody who is scrambling to remember Zach has read a blog.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Zach, Zach, how is it that you can say that it used to be a French acronym, but then you cannot say what that acronym stood for?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, CERN was founded in 1952, and it takes its name from what the group was originally called.
unidentified		Conciel Europienne pour le Résearche nuclière.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sounds like what Celts believed in.
unidentified		Yep.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That acronym was substantially better than what they would have ended up with when they changed their name in 1954 to the Organisation Europienne pour le Recerche Nuclière.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		OERN is a shit acronym.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		ERN.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, so everyone decided to keep CERN as an acronym when they changed their name from Conciel to Organisation.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So like council to organization.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		They changed the name just based on like a vote.
unidentified		Yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And they're like, you know what?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		We're not aeron sucks.
		Because council suggests that it's a small group of people making decisions.
		Organization suggests that it's a large group of people all working together.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Now, it's been the Organisation Europienne pour le Recerche Nuclière since 1954.
		They changed the name then, but have kept the abbreviation CERN.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Because of the Celts.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, because it's better.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Because of the Celts.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Orn sucks.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So one of the reasons that idiot conspiracy theorists in America are probably more prone to target CERN is because we're not a member of the Associate Company.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		What a shocker.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We have observer status, which we've held since 1997.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's nice.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But we're not an active participant.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And I think that that sort of rankles some feathers.
unidentified		That's because I'm going to go with Obama's fault.
		Sure.
		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Absolutely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Iran deal.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yep.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That's what it is.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So there's some sort of anti-American projection that I think a lot of people, like these folks, are feeling about this.
		What are these damn Europeans doing?
		And you can feel it in the same way.
		They're just like, I think it's a French acronym, but it's a French acronym for the Council of European Research into Nuclear Stuff.
		It's the most simple acronym that you could know if you did any understanding.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Any reason.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He said it's a French acronym.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Any research.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He said it's a French acronym.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Like one of the words is Satan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, Like, acronym in French means something different than here.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like, he's saying it's a French acronym as though who knows what those people think acronyms are.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Those weirdos.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Bananas.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But it's that anti-foreign, anti-other mentality that's just.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy to see everywhere in this shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's crazy to me how we began this episode with Jim Baker saying, there is only one God, Jehovah.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And then at the end of this, as we've continued on through this, Jim Baker believes now that every mythology is real?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He must, yeah, or at least there's some validity.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they're throwing in every god from everywhere.
		CERN is Celtic now?
		But why?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Celtic.
unidentified		What?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Celtic.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I apologize.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I think.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		CERN is actually Danny Ainge.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's who CERN is.
		I think that some of that, though, we're not unpacking correctly.
		I think there's a decent amount of that that is like, I don't believe this is real, but I'm afraid that they do.
		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
		That sort of thing.
		And so I think that there's a little bit of leeway in terms of him not fully subscribing to every pantheon while he still brings fear of every pantheon.
		I think there's some wiggle room.
unidentified		It's not great.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to go with the, I'm going to, you know what?
		If it was like once or twice, I would more lean towards you, but it seems like they're bringing up all, they're just throwing everything.
		Like, we got Shiva in there.
		We got the fucking sun god in Arizona.
		We got the Celts.
		We got Apollo is the one who's going to come up from the ground.
		That's what God prophesied.
		So now God knows that Apollo is there?
		Like, everything is real to these people.
		Well, everything is real.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I think it is in the Bible that Azazel does get bound deep within the earth or something like that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sure, but that's Apollo now?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
		Well, Abaddon.
		So let's get back to this Celtic deity.
		I hate that.
		I love it when he says the Celts.
		Am I saying that?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Am I saying that right?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And everybody's like, sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No one's.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You're talking about Bill Russell, right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No one is at all thrown off.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So there's a Celtic deity that is named Cernanos.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And his other name is Larry Bird.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Very racist.
		So the name Cernanos only exists in one place in history.
		And it's on the Pillar of the Boatman, which is something that was from around the first century BC, Common Era.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That is where we got the phrase that Jesus said: I'm going to make you boaters of men.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I'm going to make you boatmen of titties.
		Motorboatmen of titties.
		I'm losing it towards the end of this.
		So, Cernanos exists only on this pillar.
		The name Cernanos has existed nowhere else in antiquity, much like Paulifloismus.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes, yeah.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's that same sort of thing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Which, again, now that you've told me that, that's going to haunt me.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Probably.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The idea that there's a bunch of examples of it, and that sort of thing is so fascinating.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Now I'm going to spend all of my time researching that.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You've just ruined my life.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't remember what the word for it is, but there's a whole collection of words that only exist in one place ever.
		And it's so fascinating that history has that much room.
		We have all these texts from history.
		And nope, that word was.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That word's one-time.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That was a one-time word.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It was a one-off.
		So this name only exists on this pillar of the boatman, which was, like I said, from the first century CE and was discovered later.
		It doesn't really matter because Cernanos plays like seventh banana on that pillar to Jupiter, Vulcanus, and a host of Roman and Gallic deities.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Historians conjecture that he was.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Those are French deities, if you're nasty.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Trebians.
		May we.
		Historians conjecture that he was the lord of animals or wild things based on his horned appearance.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Chimera.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He has horns.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Chimera.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But there's a lot of deities over time.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of chimeras.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		So another thing, like a bunch of other people have asserted that he is the god of fertility in some ways.
		God of the underworld is also in there, but it's like it's one of 12.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, just toss him in.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It doesn't really.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of underworld gods these days.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		He's not one-to-one associated with the underworld, like Zach, who's dumb, is saying.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		So dumb.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Now, it's interesting because some forms of Wicca have taken on recognizing Cernanos, but only as much as they'll take on about any god from any culture that has fucking horns.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Nothing against the Wiccans out there.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But you love a horn and they like horns.
unidentified		Right.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And so I feel like, I don't know this.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know this to be universal.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I don't know what you're going to say.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		And what I think you're going to say doesn't sound great.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		From my experience with Wiccans in high school.
		Here it comes.
		And in later times.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I feel like the horns are going to be important.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
		I find, I have found, and again, this is not a blanket statement, just my own observation.
		It seems that the people who are drift who drift that direction also are people who are kind of nerdy and like obscure things.
		So I would suggest that people who are attracted to Wiccanism are also people who do deep reading into various cultures around the world, various deities.
		And probably someone was like, I found this fucking obscure horned God.
		This is going to be awesome.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's going to be great.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And then they became really cool in their circle, and then Cernanos came to being.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And now Zach is making a scary thing because this one bull image is on a fucking pillar that was fucking buried underground for 1,300 years.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		This was all actually laid out in a prophecy by Douglas Adams called The Long Dark Tea Time of the Soul.
		And everybody should read that book.
		It's fantastic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
		There's a babble fish in one of his books.
		He probably means he's Illuminati.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He stepped into the God, whatever.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Sure.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It's a fish.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, boy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So, Jordan, we have one more clip.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I wanted to have one more clip after this, but I didn't cut it because it was pointless.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And it was just Jim once again saying that the apostles read Septuagint.
unidentified		Sure.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And I was like, well, we already made that point.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So there's one thing I think we've seen a number of parallels between our worlds.
unidentified		Yes.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The Project Camelot, the Alex Jones, and the Jim Baker, all of them.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You could almost say that CERN had created a parallel universe where all of these worlds existed at the same time.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		On this show.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I think that there's one thing on a deeper level that connects Alex Jones, Sweary Carrie Cassidy, and Jim Baker's.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I hope it's Larry Nichols.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's not.
		It is this trend.
		Okay.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Now, I've often wondered if the Antichrist isn't going to have something strange about his genetics.
		Let me give you a scenario here that I think is important.
		You mentioned a moment ago the beasts of the field.
		And you said when you were in prison, I'm glad you brought it up because you're the only other person I've ever heard that understood this.
		The Greek word there is therion.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Real quick, the part that Jim Baker was talking about him being in prison, very clearly cut out of this episode.
		Because I listened to all three hours of this, and that is not something.
		That's not something that's referenced back to.
		Also, I don't know what Greek word he's talking about, but let's let it fly.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		And the reason it's translated beasts is because it essentially means tiny beast, like microscopic-sized beast.
		And it fits perfectly with your scenario that this is talking here about a virus.
		We're talking about a plague, a pandemic, that maybe will come over from the animals, but it's therion.
		It's microscopic, dangerous, destructive.
		Maybe that's the fourth writer, right?
		Maybe it's a weaponized version of Ebola or something like that.
		But very quickly, did you ever see the movie I Am Legends with Will Smith?
unidentified		All right.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		So a pandemic.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		I like to use visuals for people.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So, real quick.
		That's the connection.
		They all think that sci-fi is real.
		So.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sci-fi is nothing but the dreams of men.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Sci-fi is the dreams of men.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		All deal with sci-fi as like a documentary as opposed to elucidating trends that are part of the human condition.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Those sorts of things.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Like if you look at what if instead of metaphor or allegory, everything was just true.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Shit would be weird.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Shit would be weird.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Also, it's fucking fascinating that Alex Jones has also very clearly misrepresented this same movie.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So now.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Wait, so he's talking about the one with Will Smith, right?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		100%.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Dude, that's disappointing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Fucking, he's old enough to know that Vincent Price crushed that role.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Vincent Price, too gay for him to talk about.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So now this.
unidentified		They're coming from all over the place.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That was not Fred Schneider.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That was Paul Lynn was a little bit of a dude.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Somewhere in between those two.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But, dude, where he goes with this exegesis of I Am Legend is very worth that.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		People understand.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		A pandemic breaks out on the earth, right?
unidentified		Yeah.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		Wipes out almost all life on earth, but there is one guy.
		Totally.
		For reasons that are unknown, his blood is naturally immune to the pandemic.
		And so he sets himself up inside of a house, and he's been there working.
		He's trying to capture these zombie-like beings and trying to create a cure, right, for this pandemic.
		Well, by the end of the movie, he does.
		You find out that's why he's a legend.
		He's the only guy on earth whose blood is naturally immune.
		Now, let's take that back to the Antichrist for a moment.
unidentified		No.
tom horn ▲ ● ▼		We know that the Antichrist is the antithesis of Jesus, right?
		Jesus was the Son of God.
		He is the Son of Perdition, the Son of the Devil.
		Jesus worked miracles.
		He works miracles.
		Jesus rose from the dead.
		He receives a deadly head wound and all the world marvels, right?
		And people have created a whole list of how he is the antithetical cousin, right?
		Well, imagine this.
		Jesus also said that unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood and partake in communion, you will have no part in me.
		Wouldn't it be just like the Antichrist to create a situation where a pandemic is sweeping the world?
		Hundreds of thousands of people are dying, and there's only one guy on earth whose blood is naturally immune to this disease, and it turns out to be the Antichrist, the mark of the beast.
		The only way you can be cured from this disease is you have to literally partake in the form of immunization with the blood and flesh of the Antichrist.
		It would be a satanic communion.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I see one problem with this beyond the myriad of problems, and that is the Antichrist didn't say, partake of my flesh and my blood.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		One guy did.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		But wouldn't it be just like the Antichrist if he did say that?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		No, it'd be so like if people need to drink your blood to survive, you just might be the Antichrist.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		The way he's working that metaphor is troubling because there's one guy who said that, and that was Jesus.
unidentified		So the other thing is, I love the idea of that being your theological argument.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't it be just like the Antichrist?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That would be such an Antichrist move to do it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't it be just like the Antichrist to get crucified for our sins?
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh, man.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He is a fucking Sarah all the way.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't it be just be like the Antichrist to turn loaves and fishes into a multitude of loaves and fishes?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Wouldn't it be just like the Antichrist to raise Lazarus from the dead?
unidentified		Wouldn't it be just like he sees God doing in a mirror the exact same fucking thing?
unidentified		Oh, God.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		How fucking stupid is that entire long metaphor?
		It's like in the middle of it, you're saying that God and Jesus is the one who say, unless you take of my blood and my flesh, you will die.
		And then you're like, oh, the bad guy's going to fucking do that.
		And I'm basing this on a metaphor I'm making off misunderstanding of goddamn Will Smith movie.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Furthermore, if you had actually read the fucking Omega Man, you would know that the reason that he is legend is because he's the evil guy.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		He's the bad guy.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But that metaphor actually extends.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		That would make far more sense than the dumb metaphor that he is making.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, of course, because if you wanted to work in the idea that these zombies aren't really bloodthirsty zombies and they have community, and they have relations and inner like, they are only monsters in the mind of the person who, um right, views them as monsters, right then people might extrapolate that towards immigrants.
		You might, but.
		But he could use that as a better metaphor from the, I Am Legend, Omega Man sort of world for the Antichrist being the one who's trying to trick you into thinking that you aren't humans or whatever.
		He could do a much better job with the actual text as opposed to.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Why are we always doing punch-up for these guys?
unidentified		Well, because it's easy it's, they're very bad at all, they're dumb.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		But I, I do love so much that all of these people are just like, have you ever seen the Matrix?
		Exactly yeah, it's all that.
		It's so much like, I get it.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Movies are fun.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Reading's hard.
		I do get that.
		I struggle with it.
		I struggle with reading a lot because, like I, I sit there like the other night, that Carter Page uh Fisa, warrant came out yeah yeah, and i'm like man, this is a lot.
		Warrants are boring.
		This sucks.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Warrants are boring.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Comes in through there.
		I'm like I wish there was a movie I could compare this to.
		Yeah, I wish I could just watch a movie and be like it's just like that, I don't know.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Tinker Tager, Tinker Tailor, Soldier Spy, that's a book.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It was a movie?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I guess it was too.
unidentified		I don't know.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		There's a lot of shortcuts in propaganda, it turns out and uh, they're pretty funny.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh my god.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		So I don't know what we've learned.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I think we have the idea.
		I think we have uh, thoroughly learned that chimeras are real, man number one.
		Chimeras are real also, if you know, Steve Quaylee also, all religions are real.
		Yes, according to Jim Baker, there's just only one, god.
		Right, all the religions are real, but they're not god.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Well, they don't capitalize the g.
unidentified		That's the difference right right yeah yeah, the earth is hollow, absolutely.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Um, watch out for once again big theme amongst all these shows.
		Watch out for reptoid human humanoids.
		Sure, that's a bad.
		They don't even get near that.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		If someone licks their lips run, it's too close to.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		If you have chocolate on you, fucking bail bail, bail hard.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Um, what else?
unidentified		What else do do?
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's easy to pretend that um, marketing campaigns are lore right um, not hard, when you don't look into anything.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Uh also, the apostles couldn't read God.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		It seems like 200,000 is too much for sinks.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Oh, big time.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, although that house is huge, that house is big, there's a lot of sinks in there probably, but he's also full of shit.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Imagine, imagine the amount of wheelchair ramps you need to build for a house that big.
		You have to have a literally federal regulation spiral all the way around, all the way up to the top, to all the doors and the windows.
		That's just how that fire marshal works.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And also, because this was in 2015, we know from being in the the present that Laurie's house is open.
		He did get that $200,000.
		What a shock, what a shock.
		And no way if you like our show, oh no, before we do that, what's that?
		Thank you Jonathan, we appreciate.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Oh yeah, that was fucking fantastic.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if we hit all the things you hoped we'd cover, but We have a weird episode.
		We do appreciate it so much.
		If you want more of our show, folks, go to knowledgefight.com.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Follow us on Twitter and subscribe.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		We're on Facebook.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Indeed, you can go to iTunes, download, leave a review.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		You know, all the stuff that podcasts have always said to you since podcast started.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		It's true.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, just, I don't know, we're terrible at marketing.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		If you want people to like our show, tell them that we're actually named after two giants who got flooded out by two knowledge.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Two knowledge to fight, is what we would call it.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Each one teach 12, and then we'll have a decent size audience.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I will make you fighters of knowledge, is what Jesus said.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		That's our new shirt.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Each one teach 12.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		Each one teach 12.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
		This has been a lot of fun.
		Jordan, it's your turn.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		God, there's so many, but fucking, I'm going to have to go with you lying-ass dumb motherfucker, Tom Horn.
		Go fuck yourself.
		Andy in Kansas, you're on the air.
dan friesen ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for holding.
unidentified		Hello, Alex.
		I'm a first-time caller.
		I'm a huge fan.
jordan holmes ▲ ● ▼		I love your work.

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