Bob Lazar and Luigi Vendittelli validate Lazar's S-4 claims through a Blender recreation confirming light-absorbing materials, reversed flag visibility, and CIA-mapped road removals. They discuss element 115 propulsion, ancient Egyptian alloys, and environmental toxins linking microplastics to rising autism rates. The dialogue explores whether superior intelligences exploit humanity or transcend primate instincts, suggesting advanced physics like zero-point energy were hidden by gatekeeping while warning of AI-driven resource control and future human-robot hybridization. [Automatically generated summary]
Yeah, I just want to say there's about 10% AI in the film, but there's 90% Blender.
And that's actually handmade CGI.
So everything you see is all handmade.
And even the de aging of Bob Lazar, we scanned Bob.
We went over to his house, scanned his face, took a process of de aging him through that, then creating a digital model of Bob in different ages, and then placing him in the environment.
And then in some instances, at the very end, we perfected or kind of put a bow on it.
With a little touch of AI, but the whole thing is handmade.
So the craft, the environment, the papoose lake, the facility, the equipment, and the people were all made.
And some of the people are actually real actors that we put in there.
So it's not, there's one of the guys that is Barry in the film, a guy called Luis Martinez that's been working with me for the past 10 years.
And he laughs at it because he goes, I can't believe I'm Barry.
It's like, I guess these guys were lifers, though.
I mean, they spent most of their time there.
They spent at least two weeks at a time and had one week off.
So they stayed at the base.
I mean, these guys were hardcore.
I had just come in on the project, you know, so I don't know.
I don't know what happened to him.
I'd love to know.
I suspect that Dennis Mariani, my supervisor, died.
I've seen people track him down, you know, all the way to point to speaking to his family, and they said, yeah, he had some classified job out in the desert or something.
And they showed me his.
Gravestone and stuff, so you know, at least they were able to track him down.
But I've never heard of any leads on Barry or Renee or anybody like that.
What is it like seeing the recreation of it in a film?
Because I mean, essentially, it was your direction, for lack of a better word, your description of it, you telling them exactly how everything was laid out, and then once they recreated it, what is that feeling like when you watch it?
Well, the final product is absolutely mind blowing because, as I've said to Luigi, it looks like you guys downloaded that out of my brain.
I mean, you know, you can describe something a hundred times, and until you actually make a picture, it doesn't become clear.
But, you know, this took years.
I think it was like five and a half years from when I first met Luigi, and he said, Yeah, I can do this.
And the quality kept improving to where he started showing me pictures, and I went, Jesus, that's really it.
It's not really it.
It's really it.
And I mean, it blew me away.
Later on, he showed me a 3D environment where I could put goggles on and move around inside.
I mean, that made the hair stand up on my arms.
It was unbelievable.
So I don't know if I could really describe how that made me feel, but it felt like I was teleported back there.
And that's, you know, that's when really I developed an admiration for Luigi's.
Talent.
I said, you know, I'm behind this and flew out to Canada a couple times.
I didn't have much to do with the film other than, I guess, a couple times going out there and going, no, that's right, that's the wrong color, move this here, do that.
But those guys spent over three years working on it.
And, you know, what they, and they never showed me anything.
You know, I'd speak to Luigi, you know, a couple times a month and, you know, he'd always say, you, oh my God, you won't believe this.
I said, show me.
No, it's not done yet.
So I really didn't get it to see anything close to the end.
But when I did, really without trying to sound dramatic, it really put tears in my eyes going, that's it.
So late 80s, you've essentially told the exact same story all these years.
And then within.
The last, you know, nine, ten years, we've started to get all these reports.
There was the New York Times story, there was the Go Fast video, and the Fleer video, and all these videos that show a craft that's moving the way you described this sport model moving.
This is for the first time Gene Huff finally is on film, you know, because when I had the, you know, the test flight information, he was one of the, not one of the, he was the first person I told about that.
And, you know, we were all able to go out and see it.
Yeah, when I saw the American flag when I first went in, the first time I went in through the hangar door instead of around the back, you know, slid my hand across it, saw the American flag, and I thought, oh my God, you know, this explains the UFO nuts, you know?
You know, it explains everything because I never believed in flying saucers.
I thought people were nuts.
But when they started reviewing everything with me, they were trying, I was trying to replace somebody, or they were trying to use me to replace somebody as quick as possible.
And they had two directives.
One was to duplicate the technology with available material at any cost, which is exact verbatim what it was.
And directive two was.
To be able to disable this technology at a distance at any cost.
And, you know, once you start thinking about that, wait, don't you guys know how the thing you built worked?
And it's kind of like they left that out that this, by the way, this isn't ours.
And Barry is the guy that filled me in going, no, no, no, this is an alien craft.
And we need to figure out how this works.
Look at the technology here.
I mean, this is.
Decades, light years ahead of where we are.
And it was a shock, really, to me.
I remember going home that night and just laying in bed and reviewing everything that everybody said that day.
And I really don't remember how I felt the following days, but it was just a different feeling.
First of all, we're dealing with alien or another civilization technology, whether it, you know, it's from another dimension, another time, another planet.
I mean, who really knows?
So.
I'll eventually get to answer the question here, but wouldn't you think this place would be more like the lunar receiving lab where everything is white?
You know, so you can see a speck of dust.
There's everything is sterile.
People are being extremely careful with what they're doing, but you're not seeing that.
This is in now something akin to an aircraft hangar in the middle of the desert.
There is dust on everything.
People are taking everything nonchalantly.
There's a There's a friggin' poster about the thing.
At this point, when they first had it, it had to be at that level.
And they became so used to it, so familiar with it, that, you know, to them it just became like another, you know, fighter aircraft or something from another country.
So it's, it must have been there a long time, is what my point is.
Because, look, as soon as you have something that unique, you don't let it just sit there in a hangar and be exposed to the environment and have security people walking by and people touching it.
I mean, it's in an isolated, sealed, secure environment.
And they were past that.
So I think it had been there for a decade or decades, a long time.
And these guys were intimately familiar with it, not afraid of it.
So they essentially had gotten just completely acclimated to the fact that this craft exists, that it was there, and there had been relatively little progress as far as figuring it out and figuring out what it does and how to recreate it.
And so I think they were making very little progress.
And I think they kept going over the same road again and again.
And they probably had other experts there and just didn't.
And I think the reason I got hired.
It's because I was a guy out in left field that didn't necessarily follow what was going on.
I mean, the biggest distractors in the, you know, to me anyway, in the story are other scientists, other physicists.
Well, they would have hired me because I'm the top guy in the field.
Yeah, you probably are.
But I think they hired plenty of you guys and you just kept going down the same road and didn't do anything.
I think they were looking for somebody that just would, Have some radical idea and just to push the project forward because everything had stalled when I got there.
And it was, I think they were just in a desperate move to make some progress.
One of the things you talked about in the first podcast that I think is really important is that the only way for science to really progress is that these various scientists have to be able to communicate and you have to be able to share ideas and you have to be able to collaborate.
But that's not how this was run because it was so top secret.
Everything was compartmentalized.
Like the metallurgists weren't talking to the propulsions people who weren't talking to if there were biologics experts.
Because I think, I don't remember exactly where that started.
Again, it's 40 years ago.
But I think it started with.
With the seats, and uh, no, it started with the actual skin of the craft because everything looked like it was made from the same material.
I wanted some information, um, about the skin, the superstructure of the craft, and they said, No, that's that's restricted.
What's you know, we need a reason for you to.
I just want to see if everything is exactly the same material, and what I call the seats in the craft.
I still don't know if they're the seats, but.
They might be.
I think it'd be hilarious if they were actually something else.
But I wanted some information on those, and that was restricted information, too.
There were other groups working on that.
So they compartmentalized stuff so much.
There was no exchange of information between any groups.
I mean, you could submit a written response that your supervisor, in my case, Dennis, would have to carry over and they would have to approve, and you'd get a two or three line response from.
You know, the other group, but that's not how science works.
Science works on the free exchange of information.
And they were just killing themselves with security.
Whatever that thing was made out of probably in some way interacts with the propulsion system and whatever controls that are in it, that this material has to be particularly unique.
So, I would like for you to tell Joe one of the things that always interested me because I built the craft is how the waveguide worked with the ceiling interior and how it blended.
And, uh, I don't really like doing interviews, as you probably know.
You know, but I know there's people that thrive on that stuff, but, you know, I felt privileged to be part of the project, but it left me with an insatiable appetite.
Oh my God, I want to know where it's gone.
Look, even when I was there in the 80s, they were talking about moving the project at that time.
So, I really, I'm dying to know is it still there?
Has it moved on?
Did they split it up and move it to other places?
Yeah, I remember Barry talking about moving it to the South Pacific, like in Kwajalein or something, but they said the expenses were so great they couldn't do that, but they wanted it away from everybody.
And they hated the fact that it was right alongside the highway in Nevada.
You know, by south of Area 51.
But that's the best place they had at the time and the most affordable.
And of course, now with, you know, budgets being so tight, who knows where it is?
So, like the original Apollo program, you know, back in the Apollo program, if they needed parts, And if somebody had something ordered UPS or through the mail or whatever, they had the authority to stop that shipment to that other person and take their stuff if they needed it.
And, you know, they had an unlimited budget.
I mean, if you're working like that, you could do anything.
Which therein lies the problem is that they're dealing with something that's not possible with, like, you couldn't build it from scratch with American technology in 1989.
Maybe, I mean, what if it's, I'm not saying this is what it is, but I mean, what if it's like, you know, like we raise cows out in a field and just feed them grass and they're just going to be food?
What if it's something like that?
What if we're just like a population of creatures that are just to be consumed in some way?
Or someone who buys into conspiracy theories, if you just look at all the other biology on Earth, why is one so uniquely able to manipulate its environment, communicate instantaneously at distance, can't really even exist in its environment in most places that it lives without clothes and shelter?
We're a weird animal.
We're very strange.
Like, we don't seem to have normally adapted to our environment.
With the way we've completely controlled our environment with air conditioning and electricity and electronics and flight and travel, we're so beyond everything else that evolved.
Whereas every other animal, predator or prey, plant eater or meat eater, all seems to cohesively exist inside of its ecosystem.
And then you have us, which is like almost like an invasive species.
Like invasive species destroy ecosystems because they don't belong there.
Well, that's kind of what we do.
Like, we suck all the fish out of the ocean.
We pollute the rivers with our technology.
We, you know, mess up underground water systems with fracking and drilling.
So, Tim Burchett has recently been talking about this, and he can't talk about it because it's classified, but he said you'd be up at night with the things that I've seen.
if the things that I've seen have released.
Yeah.
He said, we just needed to disclose it all.
I'm sick of it.
Ah, well, I was briefed, and I will tell you this.
I was briefed last week on an issue, or excuse me, two weeks ago, and it would have set the earth on.
This country would have become unglued.
I think if they would have heard all that I heard.
If, you know, it's not like there's a bunch of space brothers coming down going, oh, look what we discovered, you know, here, have some information, and, you know, What if it's not that?
No, and he'd give me pictures of these giant antennas on the moon.
In fact, I'll tell you a story.
He, you know, he was an accomplished pilot, had many world records and things of that, you know, part of the Lear family, that his father invented autopilot, the eight track tape, all kinds of stuff.
And, uh, But John Lear was a loose cannon.
At the time, he'd fly from Las Vegas and shuttle L 1011s, which are giant planes, back and forth.
And he'd say, be kind of lonely.
He goes, hey, you want to go to Minneapolis tonight?
He'd call me at 9 o'clock at night and say, well, no, not really.
Come on, come on, fly with me.
He said, just put on a suit.
And, you know, come to so and so.
And I'd go to McCarran Airport and, you know, go there.
And, yeah, I'm going to tell everybody you're, you know, an inspector from the FAA.
And I'm like, okay, great.
You know, and I get on the plane and they said, you know, just act like you're, you know, going to kick everyone's ass.
So I go on there and I'd sit in the, they fold down a jump seat behind the plane and I just sit there looking at everybody and, God, all this stuff is so illegal.
And, you know, Get on there and fly, and you know, John would take.
The L 1011 was a pretty advanced plane at the time, this was in the 80s.
And you know, John would be smoking his pipe, he'd take off, he'd put his feet up and smoke his pipe, and he'd fall asleep.
I'd just be, you know, hanging out there.
And you know, before the plane would land, he'd just, you know, wake up and you know, be smoking his pipe, and the plane would land itself.
At the time, my wife was taking flying lessons, and um.
He said, yeah, yeah, you know, bring her up here.
I think they had an engineer also on another panel.
I don't quite remember, but I was there with my wife.
There were people on board, and he'd say, Hey, come on here and take the wheel.
And he'd get the captain of the plane, which, you know, I think my wife was in her 20s at the time, and just sit her down and say, Yeah, hold on to it and, you know, just keep correcting.
And he'd just let her fly the plane, which is insane.
And, you know, the co pilot would just.
Look over, and I remember looking over at the engineer that looked at the gauges, and he just put his head down and pretended like nothing was happening.
And that was just one time, another time he was ferrying an L 1011 going by Roswell.
At the time, I was living in New Mexico, and they called him and told him he wasn't getting paid, that the company was, you know, defaulted or something like that.
He was coming up to New Mexico and landed at the Roswell, just took the plane and landed at the Roswell airport, the whole 1011.
Got off, walked out, walked up to a bus station, gave me a call on the pay phone and said, Hey, Bob, I'm coming over.
And he drove up, taxi would drop him off at the house.
He'd walk, he walked in, he went, Boy, I'm tired.
And he just lay down on the couch.
You know, and go to sleep.
And I said, What are you doing here?
What's going on?
I just dropped a plane off.
They're not paying me.
And, you know, that's it.
But I mean, John Lair was such like a loose cannon.
He was a great friend to have, but he had no bullshit filter.
If he had a retired general come up and give him all kinds of information, or if he had a psychic come up from, you know, the neighborhood and give him all kinds of information, he'd put him in the same category.
You know, and so he really did have useful information that was difficult to get, but it was mixed up with nonsense.
Like just because they've said something that's nonsense doesn't mean necessarily that this thing they're saying is not true, this other thing.
And you've got to be able to discern.
You've got, like, I talk to a lot of people that say a lot of kooky things that don't make any sense, but then they'll say something that rings true.
And it's.
It's difficult because you have to have some sort of an understanding of the human psyche and of those kind of people because there are kind of people that have very loose nets.
Now, questions for me are people that ask me over decades the same questions.
You know, why is it the Navy?
The Navy paid me.
I always said everything has been the Navy instead of the Air Force because, you know, back in the 60s and 70s, you know, there's Project Blue Burke and the Air Force and all that.
But, um, Everything associated with this was the Navy.
So, and in these days, you hear some of these new types of craft that are transmedium.
Yeah, you hear the word transmedium, and David Fravor, Commander David Fravor, you know, with the tic tac, and, you know, things are under the water.
And, you know, supposedly the craft that the sport model was an archaeological recovery, and that itself was underwater.
So, what is.
What is the deal with the water?
I mean, it's by far the biggest medium of the planet.
I mean, if you want to hide people down there, almost an entire civilization down there, you could do it in the ocean, as long as you do it deep enough and away from people.
So, yeah, number one is what's the deal with the ocean?
Well, it just in terms of if they have the ability to travel through space, if whatever that thing is really does create some sort of a gravity bubble or some sort of a space time bubble.
You go out there, you fly to another planet, you meet the people there, you go to another one.
Well, these guys are happy.
Those guys aren't, you know, and it all makes perfect sense.
I don't really think it's like that.
Look, you know, if you look in history, especially, you know, United States history, anytime a superior race or intelligence meets with an inferior one, it's never good for the inferior guys.
Never.
We never come over and go, oh, we just want to teach you guys everything that we know.
Well, we are territorial primates, and that makes sense that that's what we do.
The thing that always fascinates me about particularly the grays, they seem to be genderless and they seem to have no muscle at all, and they seem to have enormous heads.
The stories, at least, the anecdotal accounts of people having communication with these creatures is that they communicate.
In some way, telepathically.
If you transcend all of our weird biological needs, like all the things that are attached to being a human being ego, lust, greed, desire to conquer, desire to control resources all those things are territorial primate instincts.
And one of the conversations I had yesterday with my friend Theo, we were talking about what's happening to people's bodies is that people are slowly.
We're consuming microplastics and phthalates and all these things that are reducing our reproductive system, our testosterone's dropping.
Well, it can't be just diagnosed because, I mean, I know so many people that have nonverbal autistic kids, where I didn't know anybody that had nonverbal autistic kids when I was younger.
The difference between that and autism is very different.
And autism is especially when it happens like almost directly after multiple vaccinations.
There's a lot of them they point to, particularly the MMR vaccine.
There's quite a few.
When you look at the schedule of vaccines and how it ramped up, and it completely correlates with the ramping up of the diagnoses of autism, but without casting aspersions or getting into some anti vaccine conversation.
But what I'm saying is, but ultimately, the human race is moving into a very weird place.
So I had a conversation with Shanna Swan, Dr. Shanna Swan, who is, she studies.
Environmental endocrine disruptors, so various toxins, phthalates, microplastics, and plasticizers that are completely disruptive to people's endocrine system, reproductive system.
From the introduction of these petrochemical products in the 1950s and 60s, you see a direct correlation between the dip in testosterone rates amongst men, the increase of miscarriages and infertility, and then on top of that, the actual shrinking of their taint.
So, one of the ways they find out the difference between mammals, some mammals in particular, when you see a baby mammal, the difference between a male and a female is easily recognized by the size of the gap between their anal hole and where their genitals are.
And what we are transcending it, whether we like it or not.
And what I was saying is that I don't know if it's a bug.
I think it might be a feature of evolution that our insistence on using plastics and technology and all of these different environmental toxins that we use to produce energy and all the goods and services that we need also are disrupting our endocrine system and changing us.
From being these hulking, hair covered cavemen to being these very small, slight autistic men that can fucking code 24 hours a day without sleep.
We softened them to the point where there is something compatible with our modern life, with households and families and babies.
We made them safe.
And that's happening to people.
It's happening to people whether we like it or not.
We could attribute it to all these different factors.
Oh, it's a problem.
We have to remove these things from the environment.
This is what's going on.
Maybe, or maybe we just look at the overall picture.
There seems to be an insatiable desire for innovation and technology that human beings have.
If you looked at us from afar, if you weren't part of the human race and you're just studying us, you're like, what does this species do?
Well, it makes better things.
Makes better things all the time.
Constantly.
You know, look, I have an iPhone 16 here.
It's not as good as the iPhone 17.
iPhone 17 is better.
Why don't you get an iPhone 17?
You know, it just keeps going.
It never stops.
It never ends.
The TVs get bigger, they get stronger.
Your cars get faster.
Your computer has more cores, processing, video editing, so much quicker.
Everything moves faster and better.
We keep making better things.
We never stop and say, you know what?
Society, right now, we have a lot of problems.
The problems that we don't have are technology.
Our technology seems completely suitable to this world that we're living in right now.
Let's just stop making new things and concentrate on cleaning the rivers and concentrate on stopping crime and concentrate on educating people, concentrate on counseling for troubled young people.
No, no, we just plow forward ahead with the one thing that we absolutely guarantee do.
We make better things.
We make better weapons, better cars, faster planes.
And I'll, and I'll, sorry, I have to add, we do that and we also do it in a way where it's economically beneficial to the ones that are making it because we make things break now.
Think about it.
We make better things, but we make them so that you have to buy the better thing after.
Ensures a constant fueling of innovation because this is one of the things that gets people excited about collecting new stuff, you're going to make a better version.
Like, it doesn't matter how good your Mercedes is.
And so it's like all built into the human psychology and also to this thing that I said, like I said, if you were somewhere from somewhere else and studying this species, what does it do?
It makes better things.
What do sharks do?
They eat things.
They just swim around.
They can't even stop swimming.
They eat things.
What do people do?
They really just make better things.
They go to war.
Why do they go to the war, really?
They go to war so they can control resources so they have more money so they can make more things and better things.
And also the amount of innovation that is in warfare, in war weapons, in war fighting.
Well, ultimately, all that does, all of it releases more endocrine disruptors, more contact with all these different chemicals and toxins, feminizes men, ruins women's reproductive systems to the point where ultimately we say, oh, for the survival of the race, we're going to have to figure out how to reproduce.
Like, I've always leaned into what Barry told me because it's the only information I had that the craft came from Zeta Reticuli, which is a star system.
30 some odd light years away.
And, you know, again, it was just like a Star Trek thing.
Again, if it has to do with time, I think from what George has told me, Jacques Valet and some other really credible researchers have said that these are people either from another dimension or another time.
Maybe part of it is like it has to get so far sideways that we realize how fucked up everything is that we start making meaningful changes and implement AI as government.
The movie Colossus was a 1960s or 70s movie, and it's about the scientist makes.
Deep inside this mountain, a computer to take over the defense of the United States.
And, you know, they build this gigantic computer inside Cheyenne Mountain or something similar to it.
And, you know, they flip the switch and they went, okay, we're protected.
We're in good shape.
And shortly after time goes on, you know, they realize, wow, the computer's really performing better than we expected.
And as it turns out, Russia had done the same thing, and the computers want to communicate together.
And, you know, they start communicating, and then the United States goes, Well, they might be giving our secrets away, so we better, you know, cut the communication line.
And the computers freak out and they go, Well, I guess we'll just launch nuclear bombs, you know, at everybody.
And it launches weapons and, you know, essentially holds everybody hostage.
Was there ever any conversation that you were privy to where they discussed?
Because one of the things that does come up over and over again in UFO discussions is these crafts that show up at these military bases and shut down all the weapon systems.
I mean, to me, they're, I don't know who first introduced those to me, and I looked them up.
And, you know, people said, Do you believe them?
And I'm kind of inclined to believe them because, look, in the 1960s, right, where they're from, the last thing you want to do is be recognized as a mixed race couple.
And you hear the, and actually, on top of that, I have a connection to them because Barry said they're from the Zeta Reticuli star system, and I believe it's Betty.
Betty Hill drew a map of the Zeta Reticuli star system and said this is part of their roots.
We were talking about this whole Zeta Reticuli thing.
So, when you're dealing with so many different crafts and so many different things, the idea that only one species or one thing more advanced than us is visiting us seems kind of silly.
If the universe is populated by all these things, I don't know.
Well, I think if you got technology that, say, let's just say the greys.
Let's say the greys are real.
Let's say they fly around these little crafts.
Why would we assume that it stops there?
Why wouldn't we assume that technology gets to the point where not only are they far more advanced than them, but they also are completely undetectable?
I was watching this lecture where this woman was talking about quantum entanglement.
And she was talking about how maybe our understanding of space and the distance between things is limited by what our current technology is and our current understanding of what space and time actually are.
And what she was saying is there might not be, we might at one point in time, given enough time-thousands of years or whatever-be able to instantaneously travel anywhere.
And that just how, like, Quantum, like subatomic particles are connected in some sort of a strange way that we don't totally understand, even at far distance, spooky action at a distance, right?
Look, everything, you know, we look at Maxwell's equations and things like that, that we base all electromagnetic, electrostatic, you know, actions on, and How they relate to time and how they relate to things in our universe, but that may be nothing.
There may be an entire level of physics that we're unfamiliar with that these crafts, these people, or these civilizations just utilize.
I mean, if you just stop and think about going from Morse code to a cell phone.
In a relatively short period of time, historically, you go to the difference between 1200 and 1400 is not that big of a fucking deal in terms of technology, what's available.
The difference between 1800 and 2026 is fucking massive.
And that's, yeah, I was going to say, and that's a scary thought.
That's a scariest thought because it's like, we're going to integrate.
I think it's inevitable.
I think you're right about that.
We're just going there.
It's not like, even if you and I are not going to actually do it, somebody will, and it's going to integrate because other people will, and it's going to happen.
So, one of the things I want to talk about is the actual generator, this thing that works on this element.
That bombards it with radiation.
How did you guys figure out what the function of it was and what it did?
So, when you're first introduced to this craft and you see this dome, the reactor that's covering this thing that's generating this power, what was the introduction to it?
So they determined that this was the power source.
And at some point, they decided to take that out to the nuclear test site because they wanted to cut into it.
They x rayed it.
They only found a small tube that went around it.
They really couldn't determine how it worked or what was going on.
So at some point, and Barry made this somewhat clear that they cut into the reactor while it was running, or while it was under load, I should say, and the reactor exploded.
That's what killed or hurt the person that I replaced.
But it produced the base gravitational wave or base energy that propelled the craft, that provided the craft the propulsion.
I mean, when they removed it, the craft didn't work.
When they put it in, every single other craft they found had something either exactly like it or similar to it.
They determined that was the power source.
That's at the point that I was introduced into the project.
Look, there's nothing, I mean, as I said in Luigi's movie, you can take magnets with like poles and push them together and they repel, but you can't take your hands ever and push on something and they repel them.
That's a force field, right?
That's science fiction stuff.
But that's what this did.
And this produced a field that repelled the craft from the ground.
No, at some point you can't push back on it at all.
But the important thing is if you have a magnet, a little disc magnet sitting on the ground, and you have another magnet and you push on it, that magnet moves away, right?
And so when Dennis said, go out there and look under the craft, here's the craft, whatever it weighs, suspending itself above the ground, and I went underneath it.
You would think it's translating its weight onto the ground and pushing, and I should be.
So, one of the things like do you know Diana Pasolke is?
She's an author that's written some interesting stuff about UFOs and she's worked with Gary Nolan and on material recollection from supposed crash sites.
And she said that the way these researchers refer to these crafts, they refer to them as donations.
Now, my friend Ben Van Kirkwick, he has Uncharted X on YouTube.
It's an amazing channel where he was a tech guy who just got absolutely fascinated by all these stories of ancient history and really got obsessed with Egypt and Peru and left his field and started making these incredible videos.
But he's highly intelligent, incredibly articulate.
And so, these videos are fantastic.
Just absolutely fantastic.
And really, he's very well versed scientifically, so you can understand these things and explain them to you.
Like, they're examining the construction of the pyramids and whatever technology was used to carve the stones.
And there's just so much of it that is confusing because it clearly is like a very high level of sophistication and technology that's involved in creating these things.
Well, Herodotus described these labyrinths.
That were underground in Giza, not in Giza, but Hawara?
Is that where it was?
Jamie will find it.
But the way Herodotus described it, he said they were far superior and more impressive than the pyramids of Giza.
Underground.
Well, these massive labyrinths that exist underground were all flooded in the 1960s accidentally when they created dams in order to provide irrigation to agriculture that was in the area.
So, this particle collider, they use this technology to show that you can see straight through this mountain to this particle collider that's underneath the mountain.
So, they know the exact dimensions of this particle collider.
You can see, you can almost draw a schematic of it.
Well, through this technology, they've also found these columns that are below the pyramids.
These columns are 22 meters, 20 plus meters in diameter, and they have something that resembles coils around all of them.
And they're positioned at various points all around where the structure is.
It goes all the way down, hundreds of meters down, and then it goes to another structure, and the whole complex of it, these structures, Goes to over a kilometer into the ground.
There's actual studies that are currently being discussed.
Well, they already know that there are these channels that go in the ground that have since been covered with silt and sand because the sand's constantly moving.
But these things go hundreds of meters down, these shafts that go down.
Whatever this thing is that they have in an atrium, like if they said that they got that craft from an archaeological dig, I mean, maybe the Egyptians had found something similar to this thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago.
So, this is what they think it looks like under the ground, which is fucking completely bonkers.
And if there is some 40 meter metallic object that's under the ground, and we are talking about this sport model being a part of an archaeological dig, they might have found something back then and worshipped that thing and had that thing as like, you know.
Well, you know, all these people that believe that there was an incredibly advanced civilization before some sort of apocalyptic disaster that reset civilization and it took thousands of years.
And what we are essentially is not the first advanced civilization, but a rebuild.
A rebuild.
Thousands and thousands and thousands of years later.
As Graham Hancock always says, we're a species with amnesia.
And I think that makes sense.
And I think.
If you're dealing with people that were basically knocked back into the Stone Age 11,000, 12,000 years ago, and it took us forever to rebuild to where we are now, I think we've gone down a completely different path than whatever the people that were able to build the pyramids of Egypt and all these fantastic megalithic structures.
We don't understand what technology we used.
And it literally doesn't make sense that they were able to do this.
Yeah, archaeologists are very reluctant to admit it, but there's tremendous evidence that not only were these people far more advanced than we think people should have been back then, but they're probably more advanced than we are now with some different kind of technology.
But whatever this metallic object is, if they are able to figure out a way to divert some of the water there, see all layers converge in a central corridor or avenue, he said, like the atrium of a shopping mall, where you can see all floors from one vantage point.
A hall consisting of a massive space 40 meters wide and no less than 100 meters long.
My personal interpretation, Tim said, is that the entire hall.
Was constructed to house a centrally positioned freestanding object about 40 meters long.
Well, they could, but it's going to cost an immense amount of money.
And the thing is about the Egyptians, the people that run it, I had one of them on the podcast, Zahi Hawass, and he's incredibly dogmatic about his ideas of who built this and what.
And when you say, how did they make these structures?
2,300,000 stones.
That weighs between two and 80 tons, the biggest stones cut from quarries that were hundreds of miles away through the mountain.
I'm sure they were awesome, but it doesn't explain the technology involved because there's extreme technology.
Just to be able to cut those things.
Like one of the things that they don't understand is these vases.
These vases that they made that are perfectly designed, where there's the difference between like the edges and the symmetry is like a thousandth of a human hair.
Back when they had no metal alloys, they had copper tools.
It doesn't make any sense.
None of it makes any sense.
Then there's the symmetry involved in some of these statues.
Like they're perfectly symmetrical in terms of the distance between the eyes, the nose, the lips.
Most no one's face is symmetrical.
Your left side of your face is different.
If you combine the two sides, they look weird.
But when you look at these statues, these statues, which are massive, carved out of granite, again, Supposedly, before they had steel, like they didn't have diamond tipped instruments to do this, they polished them.
They're perfectly symmetrical and massive.
Some of them are a thousand tons, and they don't have any understanding of how these people built these things or put them there.
And they all seem to be the biggest, most spectacular ones are the oldest.
Their own ego is preventing them from being open minded and calling out to the world's research communities and saying, listen, there's something going on here.
We don't have the big picture.
We have a picture that we have formed from a limited amount of information and we've been incredibly arrogant about what we're assuming.
We also know that a lot of these pharaohs would carve their name.
And carve their hieroglyphs into existing things.
They would claim existing things.
Some of the carvings on these things are far cruder in the way they've done it than the actual construction of the thing.
And they think that these are old things that were there already, and then these later pharaohs chiseled their hieroglyphs into these things.
So basically, he was talking about the fact that there's two layers of ancient stuff in Peru.
The first layer is younger, and what's below it is what's really incredible and more complex.
More complex, but they don't want to go there because you're going to destroy an existing archaeological site that's on top of it.
So, what's happening is they're having trouble now getting permission to go to the lower level, which is even better because they're going to have to break an archaeological site of a more recent part of that civilization.
There's a place that I go to in Italy in the Amalfi Coast, and there's this incredible old church there that's over a thousand years old, but it's built on an even older church.
They have no understanding of what technology was used, who did it, how they did it, how they moved these immense thousand ton stones and cut them with precision in this jigsaw way so that it will absorb the energy of earthquakes and not fall down.
These academics and these people that are in charge of the narrative, like the people in Egypt, where they're very arrogant and they're gatekeepers because their whole identity is based on them being the ones that explain to the world how these incredible sites were produced.
And if something comes along that is counter to that narrative, they fight it.
They fight it because it's part of them, it's their identity.
And I went out to Italy to visit family, and I was sitting at the table.
This is not even that long ago.
And she's sitting next to me, and I mean, I remember her from being a kid.
And she nudged me at the table.
Her family's all academic, everybody's a doctor or scientist or something like that.
So there's always that pride of the science.
And she nudges me, and in Italian, she says, I'm really interested in what you do, what you're looking into.
And I knew what she meant.
It was about UFOs.
And I just responded, I'm even more interested in what you know about what's out there in Egypt.
And she looked at me, and she says, We don't really know all of it.
She said, A lot of it makes no sense.
But she said it whispering because she knew that that's not well seen at the table because now she's going to come across as this pseudoscience type of like, oh my God, she's going to come out of the mainstream, you know.
So, and then she came, she went to her place, and I was still there.
We were there for a couple of days.
She came and gave me a little book.
And in Italian, I don't know how to say it, the missing.
I don't know how to say it in English, but the missing Vangelo, like the missing scriptures, basically.
It's a little book in Italian about the missing scriptures that are not in the Bible that speak of things that are not convenient for what we are arrogant to think we understand.
So when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls in Qumran, so they found these in a cave in Qumran, it's kind of a crazy thing.
Like someone threw a rock.
And hit a clay pot and heard the shattering of a clay pot.
So they threw a rock into this high cave and realized there was something in there, and then they started looking.
And then they found these scrolls that were in these clay pots.
Inside the scrolls, they found the book of Isaiah.
It was a thousand years older than the oldest version of the book of Isaiah that we had ever found, and it's identical verbatim to the book of Isaiah that is currently in the Bible.
Well, if you think about what we're talking about with sentient AI, an AI that has the ability to make better versions of itself, what happens if it's left alone for a thousand years to do this?
Well, what do you have?
You have something that can harness the power of the universe itself.
The zero point energy can do whatever it, I mean, has a complete understanding of quantum entanglement, complete understanding of how the universe functions, how it was created.
I mean, there's new theories that believe that the entire universe itself exists inside of a black hole.
They're trying to figure out whether or not there ever was a Big Bang or if it's a continuous cycle of things existing inside black holes.
We have dogma, we have ego, we have people that are smarter than most people but want to think that they have all the information, and I don't think they do.
And then we have open minded people that are curious but don't want to look like kooks, and they're all trying to figure it out while we're making a fucking digital god.
I'll say something about the technology because it always fascinates me.
I mean, I spent four years with Bobinet to build it in a virtual environment, so I kind of had to think about it while I'm doing it, but.
If you really think about what this technology that you saw does, it essentially creates this artificial field of whether it's artificial, maybe it's natural, maybe it's a natural field, but it creates a field that we're not familiar with.
And that field, I mean, Joe, you saw the movie, there was a test that was done in the lab that froze a candle flame.
But the photons are still visible within our realm here outside of the field, and you're still seeing the photons, yet it looks like it's frozen.
To me, is the.
Is this, is that technology like a black hole?
Is it some type of time stop?
And it basically gives us the power to utilize time in our advantage.
If you think about progression in technology, anything we do, it takes time.
Anything takes time.
Whether it's computing power, now we're seeing quantum computers do things that are faster and faster, and they could do a trillion processes in an instant, and Japan is coming up with better, and then China.
But because everything has to do with how long does it take to do that.
So if that's interlocked, Then we have to look at it not just as a propulsion system or some type of cool weapon, but how is it affecting time and how can we use that to our benefit to evolve faster?
Because again, the faster we can compute, the faster we could do something, the faster we're evolving.
And if we could lift that needle and bring it faster to get there, to get somewhere, why not use it?
Do you remember, Jamie, who discussed the way they were describing the use of some of this alien technology as instantaneous weapon deployment systems?
Something I always struggle with is let's say we do get some type of thing saying, all right, we have to see it from somebody in the government, the president, whoever, that says, okay, here we are, we have this.
Well, first of all, we have to validate it.
The journalists are going to, the whole world, the media is not going to just trust somebody saying that.
They're going to go, okay, wait a minute, what are you talking about?
Because you've been holding on to this and you have this experience from 40 years ago that's just become a part of folklore, it's become part of the zeitgeist.
This is why your podcast that we did is the most watched podcast I've ever done.
This resonates with people in a way that, look, I've done a lot of UFO ones.
I had Travis Walton on.
I've had a lot of people that have stories.
They're all very interesting.
They don't get nearly the amount of traction that yours does.
And I think it's because you're uniquely credible.
You're uniquely credible in the fact that you are very skeptical.
You're not interested in these fantastic ideas, you're very dismissive of nonsense.
But yet you have this burden.
You actually physically touched these fucking things and went and saw it.
I mean, I have to say, in having worked with him and having, you know, inadvertently, there's no way that myself or people on my team weren't trying to dig deeper.
Maybe there's a problem.
Maybe there's going to be a gap.
Maybe we'll find something wrong with the story.
Because we went very deep.
We had to build S4, we had to build a sport model.
And there were things that happened over the years, things that he had said to us before we had built it.
That there's no way he could have known because there were physicalities, real things that we built.
When you build something in a 3D environment, you're actually building a real world.
It's got light bounce and refractions like the real world.
Like when you turn on the light, it does the same thing.
If a material has a sheen, you see it.
It's literally the same thing.
It's just computing power that gives you access to another world.
And he mentioned things that were absolutely impossible to know.
And so he said, yeah, there were two big industrial, yellow, industrial lights with four spots each pointed up.
And so we decided to make those.
We decided to research the type that were used back then in the United States, especially on military bases, the halogen power, because this was halogen in 1988.
So, what you do is you're inside a 3D environment.
You're in a 3D world.
Now, we're inside the craft that is 52 feet in diameter.
We bring a camera in there.
So, we were filming, the whole film was done with Black Magic 6K cams.
So, we would bring our Black Magics in the 3D environment.
You can actually set that so that we could film.
Inside the craft, so it matches the filming of our real cameras.
And so, as soon as the camera's on, it's the same lens, it's the same aperture, everything is as you would have it.
And so, you're trying to adjust for this dark room.
But if the room is really dark, you can't really get a good look at it because if you go close enough, you would have seen like a seat and a little bit of the reactor, but you would have been like, What's the black screen I'm looking at?
So, when that happened, and we have the right material, which is like this, let's call it unpolished stainless steel, it's got a little bit of usage to it just to give it some texture.
It's got the same sheen, reflection, refractions of a real material like that.
Because every time we put a fake light in there, okay, it's reacting like that.
And now you turn these big halogen lights on, and it's like the part of where the halogen is hitting the ceiling of the craft because they were turned upwards.
Remember, Bob said they were not pointed like this, they were pointed to the ceiling of the craft.
So you got two of them.
It's like wherever the light was going was getting eaten up by that portion of the material.
So it's not reflecting all the way.
So you have a 52 foot distance, and it's being lost in a maybe seven, eight foot diameter environment.
Area where the light is.
And we're like, why is that happening?
But that's how it does.
That's the reality.
He could not have known that.
If he's trying to make that up, Anybody who's inventing a story says there's two industrial light with four bright halogen spots in there, a liar would not say it was really dark in there.
I researched a lot of stuff on Bob Lazar before I did this, and there's a lot of bad information out there.
So, I really tell people if you really want to see what he saw, don't go read what's out there.
Check this out because Bob actually vetted everything.
So, it's not the wrong information to read.
But anyway, there's a lot of detractors saying there's no way Lazar could have seen that flag.
If the craft was that size and it was on the craft shell, there's no way the angle, he's five something, he wouldn't have been able to see it.
So, we built it.
We built a 52 foot diameter craft.
We put it in the hangar, it's there.
And my team, Chris, gives me the goggles, the ones I made you try on.
And it was the very first time I go in there.
And I know the craft is there.
So I put them on.
And now they're hoping, because they're there with notes, they're hoping I'm giving them all the notes.
Oh, no, that's not good.
That's not good.
And the first thing I did is I looked to my right, I'm looking at the craft.
And I asked Chris to put me at five foot 10, which is your height.
So I said, at five, 10, I'm Bob's height with the goggles.
I want to see.
And the first thing I said is, oh, there it is.
And they're like, there what is?
I said, the flag.
And they thought I was pointing at a flag on a wall.
And they're like, there's no flag in the hangar.
I said, no, on the craft.
And they're like, yeah.
I said, you can clearly see it.
It was clear.
That was something that also made me go, yeah, this is it.
This is the real size.
So, had Bob Lazar not actually seen that, the majority of the detractors out there kept saying there's no way at that angle a human eye could see a sticker on the top of the craft, which is on the top shell.
But you can, it's as clear as day.
So, those were two things that I considered to be like, you know, it's there.
So, I know to maybe some people that's not a lot.
But as a person like I am, who's very technical, I'm very, I'm super difficult.
It took a long time to do this because I'm a perfectionist and I wanted to make sure it was accurate to what he saw.
I look at stuff like that because I analyze everything like that.
In American flag use law, the only thing we were able to ascertain is the fact that on military or on vehicles, anything military on a uniform, if ever you see an American flag on your right shoulder, It's reversed because it's how the wind is blowing the flag.
On your left side, it's like the flag is because the wind is blowing this way.
If you look at vehicles, let's say a Greyhound bus, they have American flags on each side and they have a normal one on the left side and a reversed one on the right side because it's the right side of the vehicle.
So it's blowing the flag that way.
So the reversed American flag is an actual.
It's the law of how to use the flag in the United States military or on vehicles.
And it has to be like that on the right side.
So to say, is that the right side of the craft?
Yeah, it must be.
It must be because if you go into the craft, the seats, when you go into the craft, I can't wait for you to go in the craft.
When you go inside, the seats are facing the right side, meaning the hatch is the right side of the craft.
It's the only thing that came to mind.
I mean, is that what they did at S4?
They fucking put a sticker on it.
I mean, it's the only logical thing we could think of, that's why it was there.
If we're putting this out there, if we're building this facility out there, and if they did have it, that also makes sense that they've worked on this for decades.
You come along in 1988, they've got this happening in the 1950s, and it's still there.
I think what happened is when the CIA took over, because CIA is the one who took over Area 51, they're the ones at Area 51.
I think what happened is as they took over, they just removed the road.
It wasn't even because there was a flying saucer there.
I just think they got in there, took control of that terrain, that whole landscape, and said, remove it off the maps because it's there prior to them taking ownership of that land.
So, I mean, it's clear that there was a road there, and then they came in, CIA said, take it out.
Already an installation, not it wasn't an installation, but they probably had a tunnel in there already because they were it was a mine, so it was an easier way to build a big facility in the side of the hill.
That's a prostate problem, technology will fix that.
It'll remove your prostate.
Turn you into a fucking alien.
So, that image that you got of the, unfortunately, it's kind of blurry, but you do see something that looks very similar to what you'd expect to be camouflaged garage bay doors.
I got contacted by a guy called Scott Mitchell, and I was getting contacted by everybody, Joe.
Everybody was trying to get in and find, getting to make me work with them or use something they found.
So, I was getting.
I was ignoring 99% of people's, like, it's getting tiring.
Everybody's like, you got to listen to me.
I know stuff about that.
And I'm like, whatever.
I'm working with Bob Lazar.
I have enough right now.
But this guy, we had built the base, and I knew exactly where it was.
I knew exactly the layout.
And this guy, he not only contacted me, but he sent me an image that he had drawn.
He didn't want to send me what he had found, but he says, here it is.
This is where the doors are, and this is exactly where they point to.
I looked at the image and I said, Not bad.
I mean, he really nailed it in the image.
And I thought, Okay.
At first, I thought somebody on my team leaked something we had.
To be honest, I'm like, Oh, who did that?
Who set out one of our renders to somebody?
Because that's what I thought.
And they're like, No, no, no.
This is what.
So I talked to this guy, and he's really, really good at researching, and he ended up becoming probably one of the best.
I've ever, like, he's one of the best I've ever seen.
His name is Scott Mitchell.
And he says there are pictures that were taken in 2020.
And ironically, those pictures were taken on December 25th, 2020, which is Christmas Day in the middle of COVID, which means the base might have been shut down.
If you think about that, you know what I mean?
Like, it's COVID, it's like in the heat of it.
Plus, it's the 25th of December.
So there's probably nothing going on there.
And this private pilot in his small Cessna requested access inside the perimeter.
And they granted him permission.
And he had a big Nikon camera on board with a big telescopic zoom.
And he took a shit ton of pictures.
And they're amazing.
They're all public, they're all available.
You can download them.
And there's these pictures of Papoose Lake and the hill.
But they were being used on the internet for a long time.
Everybody was like, see, Bob Lazar is a fraud.
It's not real.
There's nothing there.
Well, of course, you can't see it.
It's, first of all, 17 miles away.
And secondly, they're not designed for you to see it.
And that, Also, let's talk about something that Bob was talking about in 1988.
The picture was taken in 2020.
I mean, there could be a different landscape now.
Anyway, so he said, Look, this image, if you change the contrast, you got to keep the original, but just move and try to extract data from your image.
Anybody who knows how to do that with photography, you can do that.
And he pulls out these geometric shapes.
You could see them, they're like little.
They look like rectangles.
And I thought, what if this is not real?
I was super skeptical.
I'll be honest with you.
We're talking about the picture with the doors on the hangar doors, the one from Scott Mitchell, the one that we have in the film.
Oh, right, right.
And so I didn't believe it.
I thought, there's no way.
I go, there's no way this is real.
I don't believe it.
So Scott was really cool.
He said, look, man, I understand you're skeptical.
I get it.
I want you to.
Do me a favor, go online, search it yourself.
I won't even tell you where it is.
I'll just tell you who took the pictures.
The only thing he gave us is the picture number is 0501.
That's what the picture number is.
He goes, If you find it, have whoever on your team play around with it until you see it.
That was fair because I said, Okay.
Because I mean, if it's out there, there's two different places it was online.
And the one place we got it from was the source of it.
Okay, was the from the photographer the guy himself.
We take it.
I had three different people on my team.
Everybody's really good at all this stuff on my team.
So I said, guys, this is what we need to see.
If you guys could pull it up, I'm not going to be as skeptical.
Everybody got it almost in the same time.
They were playing around, and eventually, the easiest software we used to get that detail out was DaVinci Resolve.
And with DaVinci, it's a faster process than if you're messing around with Photoshop or whatever.
And it came, and I was like, oh my God.
It's really there.
You could clear.
So, what I did is I had them scan the rest of the picture because it's pixels, right?
So, I said, let's also see if it's not some pixel pixelation.
Is it maybe just what the photo does?
Maybe we just got lucky and it looks like that there.
Maybe it's going to show something similar elsewhere and it doesn't.
And then I said, all right, go get me 0502.
I want 0500.
I want because the guy kept snapping pictures.
I want you to do the same.
Like, we went.
Really military.
Like I said, I want to make sure this is real.
I'm not going to put our name on this if it's not.
And it ended up being other pictures also show it, by the way, because he went click, click, click.
So it's like it's not just that one.
That's the clearest one.
And so I was at a certain point, I go to Bob's house and I'm sitting there, and the guy calls me.
Scott Mitchell calls me and he has no idea I'm with Bob Lazar.
So I pick up, it's a video call, and he goes, Hey man, what's going on?
I said, Well, look.
I said, look who I'm with.
And he just like exploded because he was like, oh my God, you're with Bob.
And I said, show him.
And so Bob was there and we showed it.
We ended up transferring the call on a Zoom call and he showed it.