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Dec. 24, 2025 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:51:02
Joe Rogan Experience #2430 - Jay Anderson

Jay Anderson explores UFOs, genetic experimentation via tridactyl mummies (CT scans revealing fetuses and eggs), and ancient sites like Peru’s Saxawaman—electromagnetically aligned stone blocks defying Bronze Age tools—and Egypt’s Saqqara, where hidden calcite carvings and 80-ton granite slabs suggest advanced, possibly non-human techniques. His 2019 UFO encounter left red triangular marks on his arm, aligning with NASA’s tether anomalies and theories of suppressed plasma science tied to Earth’s magnetic reversals. Anderson critiques government disclosures (e.g., Lou Elizondo’s Guantanamo ties) while proposing human origins for tech like zero-point energy, suppressed by Cold War paranoia—raising questions about accountability versus public safety in revealing transformative knowledge. [Automatically generated summary]

Participants
Main
j
jay anderson
01:50:14
j
joe rogan
54:04
Appearances
j
jamie vernon
01:14
n
nuno loureiro
01:24
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out!
The Joe Rogan experience.
Train by day, Joe Rogan, podcast by night, all day.
We're live.
joe rogan
What's happening, man?
It's great to meet you.
jay anderson
It is great to meet you as well, Joe.
I really, really appreciate you taking me out here.
joe rogan
Oh, my pleasure.
I've enjoyed your content for quite a while now.
jay anderson
Well, I'd be interested to know when was it that you first started getting interested in what I was doing?
What kind of subject?
unidentified
What topic?
joe rogan
I wish I remembered.
jay anderson
Because I know you followed me for a couple of years.
It was before the Cafra Pyramid scans and stuff.
You know, I'm into the UFO subject and things like that, but I wasn't sure.
unidentified
Well, it's all the silly shit that I love.
joe rogan
Silly and serious at the same time.
Ancient civilizations, mysteries, and obviously aliens.
jay anderson
Oh, yeah.
And it's all cotangent.
It all connects together.
joe rogan
I think so, too.
We actually played a clip.
We did a podcast yesterday with Dr. Michael Masters.
jay anderson
Love him.
Yeah.
Talked to him a couple times.
joe rogan
Very fun.
Very smart guy.
Very interesting guy.
But we played, we were talking about the, he has a theory that aliens are human beings in the future.
jay anderson
It's a very strange theory based on like kind of the anthropological view and the physiology and how that might have happened over time.
joe rogan
And there's also, what was the model?
There's the many worlds theory.
And then what was his model?
There's a different one.
The concept is you could, if you lived in the future, you could go back in time and it would not affect the future because everything that's supposed to happen has already happened.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And you were supposed to go back anyway.
jay anderson
Interesting.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
I try to get my head.
But anyway, during that time, I asked him about the tridactyl mummies and then we played your clip.
jay anderson
Oh, okay.
joe rogan
Yeah, we played the clip that showed all the scans.
We talked about Jesse Michaels and how he went down to Peru and actually touched those things and was there with them and how surreal it was.
jay anderson
Yeah, I was in Peru recently not to go and see the Nazca mummies.
I wish I could have seen them.
I was out there to look at all the megalithic studies and the excavations going on at Saxo Oman, which is an incredible megalithic site in Cusco.
But the Nazca mummies, I mean, what's interesting about it is that obviously you're going to have a big knee-jerk reaction to something that's so incredibly profound as the idea of these being non-human intelligences that are mummified.
But when you actually look at the CT scans and the x-rays, you start to realize that this can't be fake.
You can't fake bone cartilage.
You can't fake capillaries and heart valves and a fetus inside the body.
joe rogan
It's so nutty.
jay anderson
Dude, it's crazy.
Some of them have eggs inside them.
Some of them have fetuses.
joe rogan
The eggs are big.
jay anderson
Big eggs inside them.
And these are small beings.
These ones are meant to be like the little kind of like 60 centimeter beings with like three eggs inside them.
Then you've got the big one, Montserrat, which has an actual fetus, like a baby not in an egg.
So it's like, if these are all real, it does feel like there was some sort of genetic experimentation going on where they're just churning out prototypes of some form.
joe rogan
Do you think that's it?
Or do you think that there used to be another type of, for lack of a better word, primate?
jay anderson
Well, the thing is.
joe rogan
Is that a primate?
I mean, what is that?
jay anderson
I mean, some of them, they're leaning more towards like reptilian anthropod kind of lineage.
So like the bigger ones seem to be more mammalian, whereas the smaller ones with the eggs are sharing reptilian traits.
So it's like there are all these different variations with these different bodies, different kind of like physiological characteristics, which is why it's like, okay, well, is this one lineage or is this just someone kind of like tweaking?
All right, well, that one failed.
That one's not working.
This one grew wings.
All right, fuck that one off.
Like, you know, it's just weird.
joe rogan
So your thought is that these are the products of experiments.
jay anderson
I mean, if you look at Jesse, when Jesse Michaels did his documentary, one thing he mentioned, I can't remember where he got this from, but he was saying that the original translation of the area of Nazca from the original language was like the area of experiments and genetic cloning.
It was like a really strange definition for the actual area that kind of says experimentation and genetic modification.
I can't remember the exact quote, but this was something that he brought up in the documentary.
I was like, huh?
Okay.
Then you have all of these various different examples.
joe rogan
I ask you, who said that?
Who called it that?
jay anderson
So, when Jesse Michaels put out his documentary, there was just a scene in it.
Now, my memory is failing me a little bit, but there's a scene in it where he was talking about the Nazca region.
And he said that the original, in the original language, this translates roughly to the area of experimentation and genetics of some form.
joe rogan
But how do they know what those dreams are?
I agree.
jay anderson
I agree.
But it's just a weird little caveat that he brought up in the documentary.
I'm not quite, he'd probably be rolling his eyes at me now.
Like, dude, I actually fucking know exactly what this is.
You're making me look like an idiot.
Yeah, I'm butchering it, but no, for sure.
But I, but just the fact that these things exist and they exist in an area of the world which is full of mystery.
I mean, the megalithic sites around there.
Like I said, that's what I was out there for to see these different megalithic sites and the Nazca lines and Saxawaman and in the Sacred Valley.
You just have like incredibly complex architecture.
You know, rose court, granite, diorite, andesite, these incredibly hard stones, like in Egypt.
But honestly, I find Peru even more baffling than Egypt with the architecture because of just the level of interlocking precision that you see and the fact that it looks like they've softened the stone in Saxawamon.
It looks like marshmallows, like all squished together.
And it just invokes a lot of different theories from people about how they were actually manipulating the stone.
joe rogan
Yeah, because it doesn't seem like it was just carved.
jay anderson
No.
joe rogan
Right?
Like, it does seem like there's some areas where chunks have been removed from the quarries.
But when they're all pieced together, when you see those weird curvatures to it, it's like, what were you guys doing?
And perfect precision.
jay anderson
Perfect precision.
And like sometimes you'll see like these corners where just a tiny bit of stone is jutting up and then the other two are connecting into it.
It's like this is such a ridiculous level of complexity for an apparent 600 year ago Bronze Age bronze chisels and stone hammer tool wielding civilization.
And also in Peru is what I find very interesting is you've got a brilliant visual contrast to use when you look at what is the Inca work, which is the rough cut stone, the mortar brick using walls.
Like this is all present in Peru next to the megalithic sites.
And the mainstream will attribute all of this to the Inca of 600 years ago.
But you'll see that the stone walls that are rough cut and use cement and mortar, they're still standing.
They're pretty pristine.
They're looking good.
Next to megalithic multi-ton slabs of granite that are broken to pieces and strewn across the hillside.
So it just looks like there was a lot of desolation, potentially geological trauma in this area.
And then these people, the Inca, discovered these sites, built around them.
You can see in like the cracks and corners of all these megaliths that there's like stone walls that they've tried to kind of, you know, reinforce.
It's very visually obvious, actually, when you go out to these places.
joe rogan
Isn't it fascinating that people aren't willing to consider the possibility that this is from an older time?
Like that, it's heresy.
jay anderson
It's just such a knee-jerk reaction, man.
Like, I think at the end of the day, we're still using models from like 1800s explorers, right?
And it's like, what the fuck?
Like, we've moved forward.
There's a lot of contradicting evidence and data in a lot of these countries, whether it be, you know, Gobekli Tepe in Turkey or the potential infrastructure below the Giza Plateau.
And then the incredible megaliths in Peru, like Saxewoman.
It just feels like what we're doing is rehashing the same status quo orthodoxy, and it's coming up against an ever-piling higher mountain of evidence.
And one of the cool things that I got to do out in Peru was go to Saxawoman, where they've got current archaeological digs going on through the Chinkana project, which is an archaeological team out there, and they're doing digs.
And they have actually discovered below, like 10 meters down into the ground, precision carved blocks of stone that are coming out of the earth.
And this is where in this region in Cusco, the Andean legends are that there is a vast labyrinth below ground connecting Cusco to Saxa Woman, connecting Saxa Woman to the sacred valley, all spreading out across the Andean mountain range.
And this is like an old legend.
This is what the shamans and the sacred keepers of knowledge would say in Peru.
We're finding evidence for it.
We're literally going underground now and seeing that there are actually really precise elements of infrastructure below Saxawoman.
And they're just beginning to uncover this.
I was one of the first to go down there and actually see these blocks myself.
And it's just like, this is happening now.
We're actually getting to a place where we can start to validate some of these forgotten myths and folklores, or if you want to call them conspiracies or pseudoscience from the archaeological side of things.
It's being evidence now.
joe rogan
That's mad.
So these tunnels and like what is exactly the structure that's supposed to be down there?
And what have they discovered?
jay anderson
So it's supposed to be called the Chinkana, like the labyrinth.
And there's a few different chinkana entrances around the river.
joe rogan
How big is it supposed to be?
jay anderson
Vast, multiple kilometers.
It's stretching from down Saxawoman down into Cusco and then off into the Andean mountain range to the Sacred Valley.
joe rogan
It's very similar to some of the stuff that they found in Egypt.
That's banana.
unidentified
Yes.
jay anderson
And then what's interesting is you have the same hallmarks and signatures that you see in Egypt.
So you see the stone nubs, you know, these little protrusions that you get.
I'm addicted to those, man, because they are all over the world.
joe rogan
Do you have any theories?
jay anderson
I mean, I've listened to a lot of theories.
I certainly think that the...
joe rogan
We should show an image of it for people that aren't.
unidentified
Yeah, like...
joe rogan
You know what we're talking about?
unidentified
Stone nubs.
joe rogan
There's all of these incredible, massive stones that have been somehow or another moved from a quarry, sometimes that were hundreds of miles away.
They have these weird nubs on them.
And no one knows what they are.
And there's a bunch of theories, like maybe they helped them move those things.
You see them all over the place.
And no one quite knows.
jay anderson
India, you see them in Egypt.
You see them in Peru.
This is in Ole and Tentambo in the Sacred Valley.
joe rogan
This is one of the things that's so infuriating about people that are arrogant about gatekeeping information and being the only ones that are allowed to distribute the truth.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Air quotes.
We're missing so much.
There's no way you really know.
jay anderson
Huge gaps of knowledge.
joe rogan
We're missing so much.
And more time goes on, as Graham Hancock always says, shit just keeps getting older.
And now they just push back the use of fire by 300,000 plus years.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
unidentified
Okay.
jay anderson
Yeah.
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
Like it just keeps going.
It's not going forward.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
It's going backwards.
jay anderson
And anatomically modern humans, I think, have gone much further back now in time.
They're looking at 800,000 years.
joe rogan
So, you know, plus, plus, possibly even a million.
This is what weirds me about these creatures.
Like, human beings have gotten to the point multiple times where we were almost extinct.
The Toba volcano, I think we got down to, God, was it 7,000 people?
Is that like the low estimate?
unidentified
Damn, really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's a crazy story.
Like, super volcanoes are unbelievably devastating to just all life, you know, because it just changes the temperature of the earth, the entire surface, whatever doesn't get blasted out of the ground by the actual volcano itself.
All the other stuff on the other side of the world gets fucked.
Like, it just ruins everything.
We got down to like a few thousand people.
And then there was another time where one of these guys came, God, I forgot who that was as well.
We were talking about the reality of glaciation and about what happens during ice ages and how devastating it can be.
And they were saying that we had gotten at least multiple times in the history of the Earth to the point where it was incapable of sustaining life.
Wow.
That within a few, you know, like whatever parts per million of carbon dioxide are necessary to support plant life, we literally got to the part where there was almost impossible to support life.
And then it rebounded and everything's fine.
So there's so much we don't know.
jay anderson
Absolutely, man.
joe rogan
It's so crazy to try to pretend you know that people 600 years ago make this because we know people 600 years ago lived there.
We have a lot of archaeological evidence and we have but you have weird structures on top of obviously much more intricate and complex structures.
jay anderson
Yeah, and again, they share the same signatures as places like in Egypt and in India, you know, they think you're a kook.
Yeah, they do.
And it's just a knee-jerk reaction.
It's again, it's adherence to a status quo.
And, you know, you get channeled through a very kind of fine wall in academia.
And I think that it can be a real detriment actually to opening up your ideas and being a little bit more expansive with what could be possible because you do get put into a very restrictive format in the traditional academic sense.
And then obviously you have the pressures of funding and things like this.
And you're not going to get the funding if you're talking about this crazy shit.
And it's just like a self-fulfilling censoring, you know.
But with the rise of alternative media, we're changing the game a bit because you can actually put a voice out there.
You can put an idea out there.
It's not completely stonewalled by the academic circle.
They can't actually prevent people from discussing these ideas in an open media format like this.
joe rogan
Right.
And if you put a video like you did on X or on YouTube, people can, like the video that you did on the aliens, whatever they are.
unidentified
Whatever they are.
joe rogan
People can see the CT scans.
jay anderson
Exactly.
joe rogan
You see the CT scans and you automatically go, wait a minute, this is 1,200 years old?
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
You're telling me someone faked this 1,200 years ago?
Like, I don't think they could fake that now.
jay anderson
You know, I don't think they could.
joe rogan
Hollywood special effects, guys, but then the composition of the actual bones and everything.
jay anderson
It's like cartilage and muscle tissue.
joe rogan
How would you fake that?
jamie vernon
Circling back, I texted Jesse to ask him for some insight on what you're doing.
Oh, nice.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
jamie vernon
So what he sent me was a screenshot of a book where he got it from.
jay anderson
Thanks for this.
jamie vernon
Translate.
unidentified
Translation here shows science of insemination.
jamie vernon
Yeah, Jumana, I guess was the local word.
That's the local word for what that area is called.
Right, right, right.
This is a book you found from that area, I think.
And that says, yeah, laboratory of insemination and cloning.
unidentified
What?
jay anderson
That's what I'm saying.
joe rogan
Look at all these terms.
They use Yuma is semen.
Yume, verb to inseminate, humage, the science of insemination, yuma paj, wise inseminator, yuma, scion or clone.
jay anderson
This is what I'm saying, bro.
joe rogan
Jumei to clone, jumaj, the science of cloning, and jumpaj, wise cloner.
jay anderson
So basically, what the fuck, man.
You know, it's there.
It's um, it's interesting.
And then obviously go back to that, please again.
You get alongside this kind of description, you have these bodies, you have this architecture and math.
Yeah, like this was, dude, this was like one little 10-second clip in his documentary, and it just made me perk up, like, wait a minute, what?
joe rogan
The name of the place is like a laboratory of insemination and cloning.
jay anderson
And they're getting a smorgasbord of different beings coming out of this area, right?
jamie vernon
Like, Jesse does add, I think he's speculating somewhat on the etymology, not definitive.
unidentified
Oh, of course.
jay anderson
But yeah, I mean, it's there.
joe rogan
I said Jesse's better at this than me.
I'm like, it's clear, or it's done.
Itself is there.
unidentified
Wow.
jay anderson
But it is interesting.
Yeah, it is interesting.
And I think it does, you know, leads into what was happening on this planet a long time ago.
joe rogan
It doesn't.
My point was when I was getting to the whole super volcano thing, what if something happened that wiped that species out?
jamie vernon
Right, right.
joe rogan
Like, clearly, there's no more Neanderthals, right?
Whatever happened, whether it was us or disease or whatever killed them off, they don't exist anymore.
We only have evidence that people interbred with them.
What is that thing?
Is that thing maybe one of us, like another kind of human?
Look, look, another kind of primate.
You know, look how different we are than rhesus monkeys, right?
Like, we're all primates.
We're so fucking different.
Why would we assume that the ones that we found so far, including like would they find Dennis Ovens like 15 years ago or something like that?
unidentified
Right, right.
joe rogan
And then Homo Juliens, what was that one?
That was just a few years ago.
Like, they keep finding these new versions of people.
Not new, obviously.
No.
But long extinct versions of people.
jay anderson
I think it's possible.
And I also think that there's a potential.
What if a particular subroot species of hominid decided to opt in for subterranean living?
unidentified
Right.
jay anderson
And they escaped a lot of the surface world traumas and were actually able to kind of maintain their society.
I mean, look at all of the weird evidence we have for these vast underground cities during cool.
You would love to go there, my God.
joe rogan
Jim Scetti just released a video on it.
It's banana.
jay anderson
Could you imagine renovating your house and fucking finding that?
joe rogan
Renovating your house and finding there's a room for 20,000 people under your house.
jay anderson
Would you say anything?
joe rogan
I don't know.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't have to think about where I live.
It depends on where I live.
You live in a place where the government can just come and take your house.
jay anderson
Yeah, be worried about that.
joe rogan
I would say it if I was in America.
But even I was in America, what if I really liked my house?
And now my house is connected to the house.
unidentified
Well, Terra, and the fucking archaeologists want to come, get out of my yard.
jay anderson
Exactly, exactly.
But like, yeah, I think about this and I think about all of these different things.
Good, good.
No, I'm happy to hear that.
Happy to hear that.
But it's interesting.
And then you have, you know, the strange stories like from the Hopi tribe about the ant people that came during a time of cataclysm and they brought them underground and then they brought them back up.
And there's a few like that.
There was a really interesting podcast.
It was years ago.
I remember seeing this, where they'd brought these two Amazonian shamans on the podcast, like full headdress.
They spoke their own tribal language.
They needed an interpreter in the room.
And the guy asked them what they thought about aliens.
And they didn't understand the question, didn't know what he meant by alien.
He was like thumbing through this book and he put up a picture of a grey.
And the tribesman went, oh, that's makenwabu.
That's makenwabu.
And they had a whole story about how this was a human that became an ant that lives underground and it can appear in the divine light.
But you should be very careful with this being because it will take your soul underground and you need a very good shaman to bring your soul back.
And they were taking it real seriously.
Yeah, yeah, dude.
So it's like these tribal cultures, they know, man.
They fucking know.
joe rogan
Well, I think they have, I think there's an ancient memory in people.
I think it's one of the reasons why these post-apocalypse movies are so popular.
There's a lot of post-apocalypse movies where, you know, like people, they figure out how to make houses out of wood again, and they're surviving and they make little encampments and they fight off the intruders from the outside.
You know, real like walking dead type shit with no zombies.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
I think there's a memory in us of the surviving humans.
I think there's a memory.
And I think we probably have been through some terrible moments in the Earth's history where there was an enormous disaster and we are the ancestors of the survivors.
And I don't think there was a lot of survivors.
No.
jay anderson
In fact, I heard you talking about that the other day where you were saying about like the, and it's something I agree with, the necessity for post-cataclysm, post-apocalypse, the strong men would inherit the earth.
joe rogan
Monsters would inherit the earth.
jay anderson
Monsters would inherit the earth, right?
And so if we really were a hyper-advanced Atlantean type civilization prior to this, maybe even more matriarchal than patriarchal, it would make sense that when things fall apart, obviously, and now you need to survive in the wild, the strong men and the savage guys would inherit the Earth because they would be the ones who would be able to push through that type of environment.
And then if that is the case and you fast forward to where we are now, look at our incredibly competitive, hyper kind of aggressive culture that we have, it would make sense that this was formed through the seeds of trauma and through the seeds of having to fight for survival and recovering what was lost.
joe rogan
Yes.
Which also makes sense why the past, the further you go back, the more barbaric these people are.
You're dealing, and you're like, well, it took a while for people to learn, maybe, but maybe you're dealing with people that had to, they probably had to cannibalize.
I mean, they probably had to eat everything they could.
There was only a few thousand of them left.
If we really got hit by asteroids, like if the younger dryest is correct, it makes sense that it would take like 5,000 years for civil society.
jay anderson
To recover from the market.
joe rogan
Because that seems to be what happened.
It seems to be like you have literally the scraggliest survivors, and then eventually the Earth gets back to normal.
But even then, it takes thousands of years for people to just have a semblance of what we're experiencing today in terms of civilization.
jay anderson
And that's why prehistory is so fascinating and the Neolithic and the Stone Age.
Because, okay, so this is a time when we were just basic hunter-gatherers.
We had no intelligence, no language, no real understanding of the world, according to the mainstream.
But this is where you have multi-ton, geodetically aligned solar equinox and what's the lunar alignment.
I've completely just blanked just because I'm a little bit nervous at being on there.
Like, you know, like equinox alignments and like alignments to the sun and the moon, mathematically, geodetically aligned to what look like telluric currents, like electromagnetic flows beneath the ground.
A lot of these stone henges and dolmens are placed on places where you have strong electromagnetic concentrations.
And just the package of mathematics and engineering and stonecrafting and the knowledge of the sun and the stars and your placement on the planet to create things like Stonehenge and these other areas in the world.
How can you do that if you're just hunter-gatherers coming out of animalistic behavior?
It doesn't make any sense.
And then we kind of regress as we go further into history and the stonework becomes less impressive, things become less accurate.
And I find that very interesting.
How is it at the beginnings of our history, some of the most impressive structures exist?
joe rogan
Exactly.
It doesn't make any sense.
jay anderson
No.
joe rogan
Just Egypt alone with the conventional timeline of 2,500 BC for the Great Pyramid doesn't make any sense.
jay anderson
No, it doesn't.
I think that they most likely settled around those pyramids.
joe rogan
Most likely.
jay anderson
Most likely settled around them.
And the scans, if these can be validated fully and empirically with digs and confirmation physically, then that changes everything.
joe rogan
It changes everything.
And you're seeing a lot of people spazz out online.
jay anderson
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
It's wonderful to watch.
It's been wonderful to watch because when people are under pressure, their real character gets revealed.
Right, right.
They're under a lot of pressure right now because those scans, that radio tomography or whatever the fuck it is.
jay anderson
Synthetic aperture radar, yeah.
joe rogan
It's super accurate with stuff that we know exists.
jay anderson
Yes.
joe rogan
That's what's a real problem for these people.
You want to believe it exists when it can map out all these chambers in the pyramid.
You want to believe it exists when it can map out things that we know that exist 50 feet underground.
You're cool with that.
jay anderson
Yeah, yeah.
But one kilometer of subterranean multiple scans from multiple scanners.
Like over 200.
joe rogan
Yes.
It's all the same message.
They're getting the same message.
There's pillars, enormous pillars.
They have coils around them.
What?
Pillars with coils.
All of them have coils.
jay anderson
Yeah, dude.
joe rogan
And the whole structure is like almost two kilometers deep into the earth.
jay anderson
It's obscene.
It's obscene.
Like laterally as well, like two kilometers of infrastructure.
It's like the whole underground.
unidentified
Help me out.
jay anderson
Exactly.
joe rogan
Copper tools.
Help me out.
jay anderson
And that was my frustration when it first came out because when it came out, obviously I did some research into the people involved in the Cafra Pyramid team.
I found Filippo Bionde.
I found his Harmonic SAR website where it has listed the things like the Mosul Dam in Iraq and the Gran Sasso Laboratory in Italy, places that they'd actually done scans prior to even the Great Pyramid, which was peer-reviewed.
Their 2020 scan of the Great Pyramid was a peer-reviewed paper.
And then you fast forward to now where they've got these ones and you have people like Flynn Dibble and Piers Morgan going, it's bullshit, it's pseudoscience, it's never been done before, it's never been tested.
It's like, it has been done, it has been tested, it's actually got a patent, it's been peer-reviewed in a paper.
joe rogan
Military applications.
jay anderson
Military applications.
And Filippo Bionde, he works for the Italian government.
Like, he's not some idiot.
He's a very, very intelligent man.
And he can speak on the science of this, like, you know, articulately.
joe rogan
He works on top secret projects for the Italian military.
jay anderson
I don't know if you caught like that little scene in Jesse's where he was just like.
He didn't even say a fucking word.
joe rogan
Can we not talk about that?
He just looks at him.
jay anderson
Okay, well, just to figure that out.
That's when you know, man.
That's when you know.
joe rogan
But I mean, whatever this is, everyone should be fascinated.
You shouldn't be dismissing this if that's not even your field of expertise.
It just shows what kind of a fucking weirdo you are.
Like what you should be doing is going, okay, how many scans do you have?
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
You have 200 scans of this?
Show me more.
Show me more.
Tell me what's going on.
We should probably figure out what that is.
Imagine if the pyramids didn't exist.
Or imagine if it's like, you know, the Sphinx at one point in time was mostly covered with sand.
Let's just imagine some crazy scenario where the entire pyramid structure is covered in sand and nobody knows it exists.
And then someone comes along and does a scan of the surface of the ground and says, you're not going to fucking believe this.
But there's some shit under that leg.
No, whatever he goes, that's ridiculous.
That's preposterous.
And they don't look.
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
And they don't look.
We never find the thing that we all agree exists because you can go there.
You can visit.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
It's there, right?
If that didn't exist, you'd never fucking believe in a million years there's a structure with 2,300,000 stones that's perfectly aligned, the true north, south, east, and west.
And you're dating it to somewhere around 4,000.
jay anderson
I mean, that sounds like some pseudoscience conspiracy talk to me, Joe.
joe rogan
Sounds like kookiness.
Why is it more kooky to say these people not only were this advanced, they were even more advanced?
jay anderson
More advanced.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Way more.
They were down into the ground, two kilometers.
It might have been a power station.
jay anderson
Well, you know, Filippo thinks that.
He seems to think that the spirals might have actually been tied to hydrology and using mechanical stress and the piezoelectric materials used in the Great Pyramid and the plateau itself, because what you have is a very interesting coupling between limestone and rose granite.
So limestone is a very good amplifier of acoustics and rose granite becomes electrical, piezoelectric under mechanical stress and acoustics are a form of mechanical stress.
So there's like a certainly something to be said about the fact that the pyramids are acoustically tuned.
Like they're incredible inside the acoustics and they've done lots of measurements and experiments on validating that that it almost seems to go up in a perfect scale up to the king's chamber.
And then the king's chamber itself, I believe, is focused around 110 to 115 hertz, which is interesting for neurological reasons in terms of influencing the brain.
But on top of that, you have, again, this incredible coupling between limestone and rose quartz granite, where under the right conditions, you absolutely could get energetic responses from that.
But as well as this, you have the hydrological knowledge, which is really quite impressive.
And when you look at places like the Ossyrian in Abydos, which is a kind of sunken down temple, we call everything a temple or a sacred site, but we really don't know, do we?
We could be functional sites.
It could be a power plant of some form, like you said.
And the Assyrian in Abydos, next to it, you have the Seti I Temple, which is incredible.
It's beautiful and full of calligraphy and hieroglyphics.
And then you have this bare, faceless, megalithic place called the Ossyrian, which is sunken down into the ground, perpetually filled with water.
So they've tried to pump it out and it just fills back up again because it's connected down into the water table.
And there's all these different shafts and hydrological kind of components in this site that they don't understand the full function of.
And then you look at places like the Great Pyramid where you go down to the bottom of the Great Pyramid, you have like the kind of core, and this whole area looks like it's been water eroded, as if it was flooded out repeatedly and uses some sort of like a pump or some sort of like sequencing area where you push water in and then let it out, push water in and let it out.
And so Filippo thinks that maybe these spirals bringing water up.
And if you're a thousand meters down, you're tapping into like ancient aquifers.
So you could be drawing up a really impressive amount of like ancient, ancient water.
And I just wonder if, same with Peru, there's something incredibly important about accessing this kind of water at the real depths of the earth.
And they seem to have a real interest in doing that.
So perhaps the pyramids are in some way like, I mean, if these spirals are real, it's like a plug, isn't it?
It's like plugged into the earth, connected down into these aquifers.
Perhaps it was utilizing water as an energetic medium through the materials.
joe rogan
I would recommend to anybody to check out Christopher Dunn's work.
jay anderson
Oh, fantastic.
joe rogan
I had him on the podcast and he explained to us his theory.
He's an engineer.
Yeah.
And he started studying the structure of the pyramid.
And his conclusion was the entire thing was probably used to generate energy.
And it's like, what?
But when he breaks it down in terms of, I'll butcher the math if I even try, but in terms of the dimensions, the way it's made, and the fact that you could have something that was down in the basement that was somehow or another creating a resonance.
unidentified
Right, right, right.
joe rogan
That would have this effect, the shafts that go out straight out into space, and the fact that there's evidence that they would possibly use these shafts to pour chemicals in, and it would create gases.
Well, this is pretty nuts.
jay anderson
It is nuts.
But, you know, I was when I was, not the last time I was out in Egypt, but the time before then, I was out there with a guy called Jeffrey Drum.
He's got a YouTube channel called The Land of Chem.
And he's all about this in terms of the chemical mass manufacturing that he believes was going on in the pyramids and these other areas.
And we filmed all of the coverage of that.
If anyone wants to go and see it on my YouTube channel, taking us through areas in the Giza Plateau where you have an incredible concentration on the Giza Plateau of iron veins.
And they all seem to be emanating from the pyramids.
So if you go around the pyramids, you'll see these iron vein networks sort of flowing out from the central point.
And these iron veins are heading down into what are called these boat pits.
joe rogan
When you say iron veins, so like iron ore, iron ore, it's on the surface.
It's deep in the ground.
jay anderson
I mean, there's some on the surface, so you can actually see the snaking kind of veins of iron that's kind of rusted out and oxidized, and you can make it out, but surely it must be deeper as well.
But it seems to be stretching out from the pyramids down into these.
So his theory is that they built the pyramid.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
His theory is that they built the pyramids on top of these iron veins, particularly because this place was getting lightning strikes frequently.
joe rogan
Oh, you boy.
jay anderson
Yeah, I know, I know, I know.
joe rogan
It's a giant lightning rod.
jay anderson
Dude, I mean, these things are built in a way, and they were gold-capped at one point.
joe rogan
Right, and gold is a really good conductor.
unidentified
Conductor of electricity for electronics.
jay anderson
And the Giza Plateau is covered in these conductive iron vein networks, which the pyramids do seem to be built upon.
Now, this is his personal theory, but he's an American who's been living out in Cairo now for about six or seven years, I believe.
He just decided to up and move out there and dedicate his life to exploring these places.
And so, he took us across all of these amazing areas and showed us things I'd never seen before in Egypt.
But his theory on the pyramids is similar to Christopher Dunn in terms of some form of chemical manufacturing taking place.
And if you know, the original name for Egypt was Kemet.
That's why this guy's got his YouTube channel, The Land of Chem.
Kemet is the beginning of chemistry and alchemy.
So, this is one of the root words where we then got chemistry and alchemy from.
So, it is the land of chemistry and alchemy.
joe rogan
That's bananas.
jay anderson
There you go.
Is this one of his videos?
Crazy.
joe rogan
This is the iron ore.
jay anderson
So, these are the yeah, I believe he's probably highlighting the iron veins, and these iron veins head out into what are called boat pits, which they believed in the mainstream interpretation.
joe rogan
You're freaking me out with the land of chem.
That is crazy.
But when did they name that?
jay anderson
I don't know when it was named that, but it was originally referenced as Kemet in some of the ancient Greek.
And there's reference to it being called Kemet, K-H-E-M-E-T.
joe rogan
And it really means the same thing?
jay anderson
It's what people believe is the continuation of alchemy and chemistry because you get so much alchemy from Egypt.
And obviously, this is the place where you get Hermes, Trismegistus, and Hermeticism, and the philosopher's stone kind of leaks out from these types of areas.
So, I think that there is a lot to suggest this.
Plus, we actually know in the mainstream that they were incredible chemists, like regardless of exotic forms of chemistry, that we know they were using acids and natron baths and things like this.
The Egyptians knew what they were doing, even from the perspective that we understand, regardless of getting a little bit deeper into it.
joe rogan
Right, and you're talking about Egyptians like Cleopatra times, right?
jay anderson
So, like, we know that they were doing it exactly.
joe rogan
Exactly, yeah, that's that's why it's so strange.
Like, if this structure is proved to be real, if they start an excavation and they have irrefutable proof, like without a doubt, there's some man-made structures that are beyond description underneath the ground.
What happens now?
Like, what does everybody do?
Like, what do all these dorks that think that that's a tomb?
What do you do to all those dorks that think like it makes sense that they built that?
unidentified
It was a national pastime, it's a national project.
joe rogan
Come on, bro.
jay anderson
Settle the fucking thing.
I think at that point, you have you have to.
joe rogan
Well, I think the pyramids uniquely stand as like an intelligence test because they are so crazy when you have stones that are so large that are taken from quarries hundreds of miles away.
jay anderson
500 miles away.
joe rogan
A lot of these people supposedly didn't even have the wheel.
So, what is this?
You don't think this is crazy?
Like, this isn't like, oh, we know they used the wood from these trees to build these homes.
This is bananas.
jay anderson
Yeah.
Whole other level.
joe rogan
This is something that would take us hundreds of years today to build.
jay anderson
And one of the things that is said so much, but I guess it's kind of shrugged off just because it said so much, but it's actually a really important point to highlight.
There are no fucking hieroglyphs in the pyramids.
Not one.
There's not a single symbol, not a single element of what we would understand to be dynastic Egypt.
And so, like, you have this incredible contradiction when you go to places like the Valley of the Kings and the Valley of the Queens, gold, and it's adorned in patterns.
You can't see a square inch of stone where there isn't something filled to venerate these people.
And yet, the pyramids are bare.
Bare.
And, you know, when you go inside them, you're going to go to Egypt, are you going to go?
joe rogan
Eventually.
Yeah.
jay anderson
Yeah.
When you go inside them, it just feels mechanical.
It feels functional.
It's, you know, big port collises of rose granite and these shafts going off perfectly vertical off into that.
You can't even see, and there's nothing about it that feels spiritual or funerary at all.
joe rogan
Just looking at it it looks to me like an advancement of what we are.
That's almost like indescribable, like a thousand year advancement of where we are currently to build.
Something like that right, it seems so nuts, and there's obviously stuff that doesn't seem as nuts.
It's just beautiful and impressive right, you know, just like the Coliseum in Rome is exactly.
Or like you know, the Acropolis, you know, all those things are fascinating and incredible craftsmanship and engineering and architecture amazing, yeah.
But then there's Egypt and you go shut the fuck up.
Like what is that?
jay anderson
That's nuts yeah, and I resent the idea that we're like taking it away from them.
It's like let's just be logical about this and actually assess the toolkit and assess the capabilities and then look at the evidence of what we're seeing.
joe rogan
Also, we're not, because it's people that lived in the same place, so it's literally just the older versions of them.
Right, it's not like you're saying, you know, Chinese people came and they did it all and then they flew back exactly.
No, that's not what anybody's saying.
We're just saying it's your more ancient ancestors, like your ancestors, not we're just the timeline's off.
The timeline seems funky.
Clearly there were some amazing things that the Egyptians did during the accepted timeline.
I mean, they were a fascinating culture, amazing all through till the end.
Yeah right, but the when you go really far back, whatever that is is nuts.
And when you're saying that you know exactly when it was dated, when there's so much evidence of just today, modern doing these reconstructions and fixing and all the the the, the feet of the sphinx and they're covering it with new fucking rocks, like they've always been doing renovations they always do.
So all this stuff that you're saying, like you got a piece of wood from inside one of the cracks, like bitch, that doesn't mean anything exactly.
You can't date those rocks.
No, unless you get under those motherfuckers to the bottom and take a chunk of organic material from deep underneath that thing so you can know when the first stones are placed.
jay anderson
You don't know, you're guessing and I I think that that's why we're coming to a point now where there's such resistance from the mainstream when you see scans like this, because they've they've built themselves into a wall, it would you basically have to admit, yeah, we've just fucking wrong.
unidentified
You're all.
joe rogan
You're also, like you know them, confronted by real evidence.
Yeah, like real evidence, and like just when someone takes you for a walk inside the king's chamber and you look up at those stones that somehow they got, like how high are they in the sky?
How high are they in the ceiling?
How high are they?
Do you remember?
jay anderson
Oh god no, I don't sorry.
joe rogan
What 80 ton stones?
jay anderson
Yeah, some tons in the king's chamber.
80 tons?
joe rogan
How tall?
jay anderson
Let's look at that is near the apex Jammy.
joe rogan
Please put this into perplexity.
How tall is the ceiling inside the king's King's Chamber in the Great Pyramid?
Because these things are perfectly placed in there.
Even if you drag those somehow or another across the mountains for 500 miles and got it to the pyramid, how the fuck did you get it up there?
jay anderson
Exactly.
joe rogan
How'd you get them all to line up?
How many people got squished?
Chamber itself spans 10.5 meters long by 5.2 meters wide.
How tall is the ceiling?
19 feet.
jay anderson
19.
But it's also near the top of the pyramid.
It's incredibly high up in the pyramid as well.
They had to lift it to that point.
joe rogan
You have to get these 80-ton blocks 19 feet and then place them perfectly.
jay anderson
And there's absolutely, again, there's nothing kingly about the king's chamber at all.
It's just completely a bare room of rose granite with this sarcophagus coming up out of the floor with a huge chunk missing.
And actually, if you look at where that huge chunk is missing and you turn around and you look at the wall, there's actually a massive impact on the wall.
There's like a big part of the wall that's been broken off.
So it makes me wonder if maybe that was jettisoned off at some point from power or something.
joe rogan
What do you think is in that?
What they call the sarcophagus?
Do you have a theory?
jay anderson
I mean, I've been inside it.
There's nothing inside of it.
joe rogan
You got in it?
jay anderson
Yeah, I laid down inside of it.
joe rogan
That's kind of creepy.
jay anderson
With a grand master of the Temple or Order chanting over me.
joe rogan
Oh, fun.
unidentified
Yeah.
jay anderson
That was my first trip to Egypt.
joe rogan
You're going to take a video of that and put it up on X, and no one's ever going to take you seriously.
Yeah, right, right.
This guy's a fucking kook.
jay anderson
I am.
I am a kook.
Well, you have to be a kook.
You know, yeah.
joe rogan
You have to be a kook to really enjoy this.
jay anderson
And you have to be on the fringe.
And also, I think some of the most impressive scientists and creators have been people on the fringe who were laughed at by all their peers.
joe rogan
Well, especially now, because the way universities work is essentially there's a person that is the most important person in that field, right, at that university.
And there's a bunch of people that want grants, and there's a bunch of people that want to play nice, they want their career, they want tenure, and you've got to be careful whose toes you step on.
And if this one guy is the gatekeeper of it or a group of guys like him at various universities are the gatekeepers to this information, you're going to come up with the current bottleneck problem that we see, where people are not just unwilling, but aggressively attacking people to question this.
Which is why they called Graham Hancock's show the most dangerous show on television.
Like, that is so crazy.
You have so many shows where people get murdered.
jay anderson
That's the best way to make a show go viral, though, isn't it?
Best way to make a show go viral.
Don't fucking watch this show.
joe rogan
You know what I mean?
jay anderson
Great job on the page.
joe rogan
They did a great job.
jay anderson
But it does bring up a disturbing and worrying element of it, just how quickly the mainstream media in various outlets all aligned at once to call him everything from a racist to a pseudo-scientist to a conspiracy theorist.
And, you know, it is an alarming kickback that he's taken in his stride profoundly.
Profoundly.
joe rogan
He's a wonderful guy.
unidentified
He's great.
jay anderson
I can't wait to speak to him.
I literally missed him by like three days when I went out to Peru.
I was gutted.
joe rogan
He was my first real guest.
jay anderson
Yeah.
He was, wasn't he?
joe rogan
Me and him and Duncan.
jay anderson
Oh my God, that must have been such a reward.
joe rogan
Right from England, we got him to drive to my house.
And then once he got to my house, we ordered pizza.
We all ate pizza.
I couldn't believe I'm hanging out with Graham Hancock.
I was so giddy.
It was like one of the first actual guests.
jay anderson
Giddy moments.
You're just like, I can't believe I'm actually sitting with this dude.
joe rogan
Yeah, because the guests before that had mostly been comics or some person that I thought was interesting.
Some guy that I met at the comedy store.
I'm like, what do you do?
You're a therapist, and what do you give people?
Come on over.
jay anderson
Come and talk to me about that.
joe rogan
Yeah, I did a lot of those.
But he was, I think, the first real guest.
jay anderson
Was there like a conscious decision for you to kind of like evolve it from just comedians talking shop to actually getting different guests on from a variety of subjects?
Because I know you're a curious person.
You've probably been researching these things even at the point before you were doing that kind of podcast because clearly you were.
But yeah, what was the natural evolution of that for you?
joe rogan
Well, I was always into books about ancient history and whether it's, you know, like modernly, you know, commonly accepted narrative or Graham Hancock stuff.
But I got into Graham Hancock's stuff, I think in the 90s, Fingerprints of the Gods came out.
And I fucking loved it.
I was so fascinated by it.
I couldn't shut the fuck up about it.
I would tell people, they're like, you got to see this.
Like, I think this guy's right.
I think we are a history with amnesia or a race with amnesia.
And then, of course, I watched Chariots of the Gods, that film, which I thought was very kooky and fun.
It's very campy and fun.
And here's the thing about that.
I dismissed it for a long time.
And I said, it's nonsense.
And I was, I actually had lunch once.
Eric Weinstein took me to lunch at Peter Thiel's house where we talked to Von Daniken.
And it was fun, fun conversation.
Interesting.
I'm talking to he's a full-on true believer of the alien theory, the ancient aliens theory.
And back, see, I've gone in like multiple stages in my cognitive dissonance.
And for a while, I was all in with the aliens.
unidentified
I hear you.
jay anderson
I'm the same, though.
joe rogan
And then for a while, I was like, no, no, no.
There was an advanced civilization, and we're just a rebuilding of that civilization.
And that's probably why we're so barbaric.
And now I'm like, why are they mutually exclusive?
jay anderson
It could be a mix.
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't think they are mutually exclusive.
jay anderson
At one point, the gods walked amongst us, you know?
joe rogan
Right.
And that's when I see the things like the tridactyl mummies.
And I'm like, okay, okay, okay.
What is that?
What are we talking?
Why is Peru so weird?
Why do they have artwork that you can only see from the sky?
Like, there's a lot of weird shit going on here.
Don't be so quick to jump.
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
So, but my point is, like, I've always been fascinated by stories.
First of all, any subject that makes you ridiculous for considering it.
I'm always like, what's that about?
Yeah.
Why is that ridiculous?
jay anderson
You scratch that itch a little bit.
joe rogan
Yeah, even the kooky ones, like ghosts.
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
Bigfoot, all the cookie ones.
Like, why?
What's the resistance?
unidentified
I don't know.
jay anderson
I've got a Russian astronaut tell me a Bigfoot story.
unidentified
Yeah.
jay anderson
Pinch of salt, but he claimed that he had been told this by a military guy out in Russia that they were in the rec room of this Air Force base.
And apparently, this is according to this Russian astronaut trainer at the Yuri Gagarin Space Center in Moscow.
And he said that this Yeti Sasquatch type being apparently just waltzed in, like just walked into their rec room, helped itself to some water from the water thing, waved, and then vanished.
I don't know.
joe rogan
So this guy, what was his job?
jay anderson
He was a trainer of astronauts at the Yuri Gagarin Space Center in Star City, Moscow.
joe rogan
Bro, they probably dosed him up with Sasquatch.
unidentified
They did.
MK Ultra Drugs.
joe rogan
If you're holding on to that kind of information, interesting stuff.
They'll probably experiment on you.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
They probably gave that guy somewhere.
jay anderson
I've never given the Sasquatch thing.
It's due course in researching it, to be honest.
I've been very dismissive of that.
unidentified
But maybe, maybe, you know, I mean, like, I have a few years with it.
joe rogan
I used to have a Sasquatch Bigfoot footprint, like a cast, like a plaster cast on the desk.
He said, rest in peace, Dr. Jeffrey Meldrum.
He just recently died.
I had him as a guest on the show once, too.
He's so crazy.
I told him, I asked him if he was so crazy, but in a wonderful way.
I said, if you could cut a finger off to know that Sasquatch was real, would you do it?
He was like, yes, instantly.
jay anderson
What the fuck?
joe rogan
It's your finger.
Don't say yes to that.
Because the information just comes out.
You don't have to lose a finger.
Damn it.
unidentified
Just sitting there with half a finger.
joe rogan
I think Bigfoot was a real thing.
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
I think that's why there's so like.
jay anderson
Do you think it was just like some sort of like branch of creature?
Because so many people think it's like an interdimensional being or a figure.
joe rogan
It could be that too, but I think it's gigantopithecus initially.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Gigantopithecus was an absolute real thing that we didn't even know existed until the, I believe it was the 20s.
jay anderson
Yeah, around then.
joe rogan
Guys find his teeth in an apothecary shop in China, and then they started researching it and finding where the dig sites were.
And, you know, they found jawbones that indicate that it was bipedal.
So this is a bipedal hominid that's eight to ten feet tall.
Yeah.
What is that?
That's Bigfoot.
jay anderson
That is Bigfoot.
joe rogan
And that's probably, and also, this thing 100% lived around modern human beings.
Like what we are today, it lived around us.
So imagine you see one of those things.
Well, first of all, you're going to fucking run like hell.
You're going to have stories.
This thing lives in the woods or in the jungle.
Stay out of this spot.
That's where this thing lives.
And that's going to be passed on from generation to generation to generation until even after they're gone, now it's just a whisper.
Now it's just a thing.
Now it's a mystery man that lives in the woods.
jay anderson
Are there like antiquated Bigfoot stories outside of just modern?
joe rogan
Oh, without a doubt.
Especially Native American cultures.
jay anderson
Oh, interesting.
joe rogan
That's what's interesting: Native American tribes, there's multiple, obviously, many different tribes, many different languages, right?
They all have a word for this thing.
Let's put this into perplexity.
How many different Native American names are there for Bigfoot?
Because I believe Sasquatch is a Native American.
I don't know which tribe had that, but there's multiple different names for this hairy creature that lives in the woods.
But they don't have names for like a giraffe that lives in the woods.
They don't have like other mystical animals, mythical creatures.
They just have this one.
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
And this one is a fucking weird one.
jay anderson
Well, that's what I mean with the interdimensional aspect.
It's treated differently than just an animal, even for a moment.
joe rogan
That might be real, too.
This is part of the problem.
It's like we might be dealing with multiple different things.
It might not even be Gigantopithecus.
Sasquettes, Skookum.
That's right.
I've heard that.
Omah.
That's right.
There was a movie called Omaha.
The guy who did the American Werewolf in the world.
jay anderson
That's just the last words you say when you see Bigfoot.
unidentified
Omah!
Yeah.
jay anderson
Yeah, okay.
joe rogan
Shai Tanka.
Big Elder Brother.
jay anderson
70 to 80 names.
joe rogan
Wicked Cannibal.
Oh, boy.
Windago.
Wicked Cannibal.
jay anderson
Yeah, Wendigo.
I've heard that one.
joe rogan
Wendigo.
Yeah, I've heard that one.
And Yetiso.
How to say that?
Yetiso.
Yetiso.
Big God.
And that's the Navajo name.
So there's a bunch of different underneath that, too.
jay anderson
Yeah, like says about 70 to 80 names when accounting for variance across 50 tribes.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
So what is that?
jay anderson
And it's the same with the alien grays, like the ant people.
joe rogan
Yes.
Well, and then it brings to the same thing.
Like, it brings us to the same subject of what if there is a way to traverse dimensions?
What if this is not as simple as something gets in a spaceship and it comes here from another planet?
What if it's coming from another place?
And what if that doorway is open to other things?
And what if some of those things are a Sasquatch?
Like, and under the right conditions, this pathway is open.
Right.
And maybe it's not even something that actually exists, but you can see.
Exists in our tangible timeline.
But you can see under heavy stress, under anxiety.
And imagine, what gets you more stressed out than being in the woods at night?
Right?
The woods at night creates a lot of anxiety for people because there's all these sounds and you're looking around.
It's dark.
You're vulnerable.
Especially if you live in real woods, like woods that have predators in them.
It's sketchy.
And I bet there's different states of mind that you would, If there's some sort of a possibility, some sort of a way that an intelligent creature can get to a point where it has the technology to access other dimensions.
It can go into other spaces.
Would you even be able to see it all the time?
Would you only be able to see it if you were under a highly anxious state in the woods?
You're kind of a little freaked out.
You're more open to weird things.
And then it senses that and communicates with you.
jay anderson
Well, we are.
joe rogan
Sounds kooky.
jay anderson
We're dominated by our perception.
And we have such a narrow bandwidth of visual perception.
You know, you get up the whole light spectrum and look at visible light, just this tiny corridor of visible light that we're able to see.
Obviously, we've developed IR and, you know, different.
And if you film the night sky with infrared, you get weird shit.
You get these orbs and things that seem to fly by.
And I think that it is a perceptual thing because the reason I even started my YouTube channel is because I've had my own experiences with UFO type phenomena that were entirely initiated by me.
Like I asked for them to come and they did.
joe rogan
See, that sounds kooky.
Take that clip and I dismiss you immediately.
This guy's quite wait for it.
But this is one of the things that people have been saying for a long time is that there's actual groups of people and there was even some guy who was like somehow or another connected to the government that was saying that they lead these people out.
They go out into the desert and they have like some sort of a secret frequency.
He didn't want to discuss it that they can push out.
They can send out the secret frequency and it'll call them in and that other people have done it simply by willing them in.
jay anderson
That's what I said.
joe rogan
So sitting there and putting out this message that you're trying to communicate with them and then eventually they show up.
jay anderson
Yeah.
I can't speak to technologically assisted psionics and all that kind of stuff.
But do you want to hear my UFO story?
I can't.
joe rogan
First of all, did you come up with this idea on your own or did you hear about people doing this?
jay anderson
No, I heard of it from someone who's a quite polarizing figure in the UFO community.
I know you've spoken to him, Dr. Stephen Greer.
joe rogan
Polarizing people are right sometimes.
jay anderson
He's right on this.
joe rogan
Yeah, they could be right on a lot of things.
jay anderson
He's right on this.
And, you know, I know that a lot of people have issues with Greer, but he was actually my intro into the UFO subject.
So I'll tell you the story.
Sorry about my throat.
let me just take a sip of water so um this was uh how did he find out about it It's a good question.
He had a near-death experience, I believe, and from that was actually apparently communicated to and shown things that when he came out of that experience, he became a samadhi type teacher.
Of course.
Got profoundly interested in that.
joe rogan
That's a great origin story.
jay anderson
Brilliant origin story.
My origin story was I was really bored during COVID.
So like honestly, though, it was actually in 2019 that I had these experiences.
And I do think that it's very important to lay a bit of foundational groundwork because I think a lot of people will recognize this as well.
And it's something that you mentioned with Bigfoot being in a high-stress environment in the forest.
Maybe that changes your perception.
And I think that there's a degree of trauma and a degree of intense emotional moments that can bring about paranormal experiences.
I don't know why, but it does seem to be something that a lot of people relate to.
Yes, I was in a very dark time.
Yes, I was having a very traumatic time.
Or yes, I was going through something.
And then this happened.
And so for me, I was in my third year of university and struggling.
Just had a whole mix of personal issues going on.
So I ended up kind of dropping out before I finished and was just in a really bad rut.
And my dad was worried about me.
And he said, look, I'm out and this is a bit of a long story, but it's important to lay this foundation, I think, before I talk about what I actually experienced because it plays in.
My dad was worried.
He was out in France at the time, and he said, Look, do you want to come out and stay at this place with me and just, you know, kind of relax and bring yourself back to normal?
I was like, Yeah, okay.
So I came out and he was like, I've got these books that I've been reading.
I think they'd be really beneficial for you.
You should read them.
And I was like, okay.
Like, you know, I don't see how a book's going to change.
joe rogan
Does he often recommend books?
jay anderson
Not massively, no.
In fact, no.
No.
This was the only time he recommended books, which is interesting.
And they were a series of books called Conversations with God by Neil Donald Walsh.
Have you ever heard of them?
joe rogan
No.
jay anderson
Okay.
So it's interesting.
It kind of ties into, I suppose, the channeled works, things that people believe they receive.
joe rogan
Oh, wait a minute.
I have heard of this.
jay anderson
He's quite well known.
He's quite well known.
He, you know, was a radio DJ, broke his neck in a car accident, became homeless, finally managed to get back on his feet, but was still struggling, wrote an angry letter to God, and then apparently woke up at three o'clock in the morning and was having voices literally telling him to write things down.
And so he wrote all of this down, and this became conversations with God.
It's literally a dialogue of him asking questions and him receiving answers, which he interpreted as from God.
Now, that is intense, and I'm definitely not here to say this is a Bible and everyone should read it.
However, it was incredibly impactful for me at that time.
The things that I was reading about, it was a very different idea of God, universal consciousness leaning towards more than some weird patriarchal cloud-living figure that just never made sense to me.
So it got me in, and I was reading it, and it helped tremendously, weirdly enough, which I didn't expect.
And that put me on a path towards researching metaphysics and philosophy and science and consciousness.
And that's where it really started for me.
But then a couple of years down the line, I found myself in another depression, in a sense, because I felt like I'd accumulated a lot of information about various different topics that I thought were like these big questions and big answers and big esoteric things.
And I just got to a point where I was like, none of this is actually helping me in my life.
In fact, I'm actually feeling like fucking worse for looking into all of this thing.
I don't know how this is going to benefit me.
So I was sitting on my bed one night and I just, I guess you could call it a prayer.
I just sat on my bed and said out loud to the universe, like, I need something that validates all of this.
Like, if I'm meant to be looking into these big picture questions about the universe and consciousness, if there's something tangible here, like I need to know and I want evidence and I'm ready for it.
So give me it.
I want that.
And then a week later, my best friend at the time, he was like, hey, I was watching this documentary.
You've got to check it out.
It's called Unacknowledged by this guy called Dr. Stephen Greer.
And this is my first introduction to the UFO subject.
So I was like, okay, cool.
Sit down, watch that.
Very good documentary.
All of these different, you know, high-level officers and missile launch guys talking about UFOs.
It got me in.
And then near the end of that is when he brings up this concept of CE5, you know, initiating contact with these.
You can actually have your own experiences by getting into a particular meditative state.
If I hadn't been making that request on my bed the week prior, I probably just would have watched that documentary and gone about my life.
But it felt like a very strong message to me personally because I've been asking for something to validate these ideas around consciousness.
Now there's a guy saying, yeah, you can actually have an experience by going out and attempting to ask for one.
joe rogan
So talk me through the process of actually doing that.
jay anderson
So he has.
joe rogan
Did you get it on the first try?
jay anderson
No.
joe rogan
How many times did you try?
jay anderson
It was a weird, gradual thing where things were happening in the sky that were enough to keep me going out, but not enough for me to be like, okay, this is legit.
joe rogan
So how many times did you go out before it worked?
jay anderson
Before I saw what I really, really saw, probably about a month of going out.
joe rogan
Damn, that's commitment.
jay anderson
But I was seeing things, but they weren't, it was kind of just enough to make me like, okay.
joe rogan
What are you seeing?
jay anderson
Lots of what the contact community call flash bulbs, flashes of light in the night sky in a void of space repeatedly without any discernible object attached to it, just one flash and then send a thought, another flash, send a thought, another flash.
And this happened multiple times.
I've been someone who watches the night sky all my life.
I'm used to seeing satellites.
I know what radium flares up.
I'm sorry for maybe an hour or two hours, you know.
joe rogan
And so you sit down.
Are you seated?
jay anderson
No, I usually be standing with my neck crane to the sky, but I would be.
joe rogan
Why don't I get a lounge chair?
jay anderson
Oh no.
I know.
I don't know.
I don't think about things properly sometimes when I do it.
joe rogan
Just lay down on the ground.
jay anderson
Just lay on the grass.
joe rogan
You get a better view of the sky.
jay anderson
Yeah, but it's cold in England and it was mildewy on the floor.
It was not.
joe rogan
Get a tarp.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
jay anderson
But I was, um, I was essentially, because of, again, being asking, asking the universe for something, the universe seemed to be giving me some sort of response.
It kind of lit a fire up under me and I started going outside.
And honestly, a lot of people, like even Grier, has this incredibly, you know, complicated method using Samadhi and doing various things.
I didn't do any of that.
I just breathed in through the nose and out through the mouth until I felt very calm and then began to very clearly model my thoughts around the concept of I want something to respond to me.
And then I would essentially visualize that that was emanating from me, that these thoughts were emanating from me.
And it didn't take very long before I'd have flashes of light in the sky that just seemed weird because I've never seen anything like that.
Or an incredible influx of what look and behave like satellites, but just at an incredibly high level.
Where it's just like, what's going on here?
And it just felt like a kind of step-by-step progression until in August of 2019, I had four incredibly vivid and real experiences with orange orbs of light.
Really profound.
joe rogan
What was that?
What happened?
jay anderson
So I was outside.
At this point, it became my routine.
It was in the summer of August and it was relatively warm.
So I was out doing this quite a lot, seeing little flashes, seeing things in the sky, trying to figure out what exactly it was that I was seeing.
And I was standing at the back of my garden looking towards my house, night sky, crystal clear.
And I saw at the beginning a flash of light in the corner of the sky.
So I looked over and I saw this flash, another flash, another flash, and it was just blinking, but it was static in space.
And then it started moving down.
Every time it blinked, it would move further down.
And I was observing this.
And then it settled above two stars and kind of created the apex of a triangle.
And it was just flashing above these two stars.
And I was watching this for a while.
And it happened for long enough where I just decided, all right, I'm just thank you, whatever you are.
I'm just going to keep panning around the sky here and looking around.
And as I panned my head, I saw that there was a cloud, but I didn't really look at it.
And I turn around here, come back, and I see this cloud again.
And this time I really look at it.
And this cloud, Joe, had so strange.
It's like a dark cloud.
But when you stared at it, it had a staticky appearance.
It's very hard to describe other than imagine a light overlay of TV static.
There was particles.
It was agitated.
It was shimmering.
Not a cloud.
Certainly not anything I've ever seen in my life.
And if we pretend this microphone is my house and this cloud is here, it's drifting this way.
So eventually it's going to drift past my house and go this way, at least according to its natural trajectory.
It gets to my house and it does a right angle turn and it starts coming towards me.
So eventually it's going to be above my head, this cloud-like formation.
joe rogan
A cloud does a right angle turn in the sky.
jay anderson
Abrupt, as in 90 degrees.
It's going like this, and now it's going like this towards you.
High up in the sky, but it's now in my path, complete 90-degree shift from its trajectory.
And I saw it, like a jarring, now it's going this way.
Okay, so at this point, I'm rooted in place.
I'm not really scared, but I'm shocked at the fact that this thing did what it just did.
And I'm watching as it's coming closer and closer towards where I'm going to be.
Eventually, it's directly above my head.
It sounds so crazy.
And you know, Terence McKenna said something like this.
He was like, you know, if you tell the unvarnished truth about a UFO experience, you'll be taken for a fool.
It's like, it's true.
You know, if you just tell people what really happened, but this is what really happened.
So this cloud comes above my head.
As it's directly above my head, this cloud sucked into itself as if there was a central vacuum, a central point where it just got sucked into itself.
And it revealed a triangle formation of about 25, maybe 30 orange orbs of light in a triangle.
And this triangle, basically the cloud went, shh, triangle was revealed.
It kept moving.
I had to turn around and watch as it went off in this direction.
And as I was watching it, I could see that some of these orbs were actually swapping formation, swapping position in this formation.
And that was the first time I saw them.
I saw them on three other occasions, all within the space of a month after this.
Weirdly enough, I woke up the next day, and this is the only element of the story, as crazy as the whole thing sounds, it's the only element that makes me personally uncomfortable.
I was getting out of the shower, and as I was drying myself off, immediately, immediately noticed where this tattoo is now.
There was a triangle mark of three red marks, one here, one here, one here.
Very vivid, like the music.
joe rogan
You covered it up with a tattoo?
jay anderson
Well, it faded.
It faded over the pictures of it.
I have taken pictures of it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Is it clear?
jay anderson
Yes.
Can I see it?
I can try and find them, yeah.
I haven't got my internet on right now.
Jamie, if you go onto my ex account and just type in Jay Anderson marks on arm, maybe that will come up.
I'm sorry.
I should have really sent that ahead of time, but I do have images online.
People have seen them and I've discussed it many times.
joe rogan
Did it look like a wound?
This is the thing.
jay anderson
So three red marks, no bump, no scab, no itching, no feeling of discomfort.
There was a slight shine to them, as if it was almost like a healed over burn.
And this was very vivid.
It didn't dissipate for over a year.
It was on my arm for about a year before it faded away, eventually faded away.
And then I got Hermies Chrismagistas tattooed on my arm.
But weirdly enough, I got this tattoo and then got invited to Egypt.
But yeah, I had these experiences.
I had another experience where they came down and hovered above my house.
joe rogan
Can I ask you this?
So these orbs, there's...
jay anderson
There you go.
There you go.
Thanks, Jamie.
Thanks for that.
joe rogan
That is.
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
It looks like you burned three cigarettes on your arm.
jay anderson
That's what some asshole online definitely claimed.
But I didn't.
joe rogan
That's what I would say, too.
jay anderson
Yeah, yeah.
jamie vernon
That's crazy.
jay anderson
Yeah, I noticed it immediately.
unidentified
Very well.
jay anderson
I'm not particularly comfortable with it.
I don't know what it really means.
I really, I'm a bit of an idiot, Joe, because, like, you know, I should have gone to a dermatologist.
I should have actually had someone look at it.
joe rogan
I'm not branded, but like cattle, son.
jay anderson
Well, that's kind of what I think.
And at the same time, can I even be mad at them?
I was like, show me, show me, give me evidence.
I want to sign.
Well, fuck it, fine then.
joe rogan
Right.
jay anderson
There you go, dude.
joe rogan
I would say whatever that is on your arm, who knows?
Maybe a dermatologist could explain it.
It's just a coincidence, but the actual thing itself is far more interesting to me.
And like, because one of the things that people always say is: if they were out there, what wouldn't we see them?
Like, God, if they could come here from another dimension, or if they can come here from another planet or another solar system, don't you think they could probably hide?
Like, we're pretty good at hiding.
Like, don't you think, like, we have technology right now, like the stealth bomber stuff, that diminishes the radar signal.
Exactly.
You can't pick them up on radar.
So why would it be impossible to somehow or another manipulate your visual field, project what looks like clouds on the outside?
We know that we can do stuff like that with plasma.
Like, they have these plasma things that can spin in the sky.
unidentified
Absolutely.
joe rogan
It's weird.
They can make objects out of them.
jay anderson
I wonder if that was plasma.
I actually do wonder if this was a form of self-organizing plasma.
Because that's definitely something that people have looked into quite a bit.
joe rogan
Maybe plasma has intelligence.
Yes.
jay anderson
Yes.
And perhaps these are a form of individuated plasmic intelligences that can interact.
And one thing that's very interesting about that, there was a brilliant paper actually.
I did a video on it.
It's like 11 different scientific institutes looking at the idea of self-organizing plasma and intelligent plasma.
And they were using some references.
Like, do you know the STS-75 NASA missions where the tether broke and you had all of these strange things going around the tether?
unidentified
Yes.
jay anderson
So that's dismissed as ice particles and things like that.
Have you ever seen the motion tracking version of that where someone actually attached the flight paths of each object so you can see the flight path?
joe rogan
No.
jay anderson
That's crazy because, yeah, I'm sure if Jamie looks up, STS-75 flight path lights are going towards that thing and checking it out.
Yeah, so this is, you know, this is a gigantic tether.
I think it's like two kilometers long or something.
It's absolutely insane.
It broke away from the ship.
And as it broke away, you had these, well, what some people believe to be UFOs or plasmic intelligences.
Or if you're on the mainstream side, you'd say these are ice particles.
There you go.
If you go slightly further back, slightly further back, they go just as that green one starting up.
This is the flight path.
So if you just take it back to the beginning of that, and this is where they've attached the flight paths, and you will see complete 90-degree turns.
You'll see absolute stops and reversals of change.
And it's incredible.
joe rogan
I wonder if it's just a kind of life that we assume we exist.
jay anderson
I think so.
I really do.
joe rogan
Like the things they find at these volcanic vents at the bottom of the ocean.
They're like, oh, we didn't even know that something could survive down here.
There could be a type of life that survives in the void of space.
And it wouldn't be a biological thing.
It would be some form of energy or light.
jay anderson
This is apparently what all the spooks were telling Tom DeLong when he went to the Pentagon that there's amoebas in space the size of whales and like, you know, that these things were essential.
joe rogan
Should they tell them?
jay anderson
Yeah, I remember when he was on Fade to Black and he was talking about, you know, that there are these amoebas in space that are like, you know, a couple of things.
joe rogan
But why would they tell him?
And then he goes on those shows and tells, like, I feel like that's the type of guy that you tell some things that you want to get out.
Yeah.
And it doesn't necessarily have to be true.
No, no.
Matter of fact, it's more fun if it's not true.
And make them say as much kooky shit as possible so that the stuff that he's going to say that's true looks ridiculous.
jay anderson
And now all of those guys that gave him that information are on the age of disclosure.
unidentified
Exactly.
jay anderson
We should trust them, right?
We should trust all of these government spooks.
joe rogan
It's fun.
If you're playing, it's like the world is a gigantic escape room.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, dude.
joe rogan
You're playing a bunch of weird puzzles and you're trying to figure it out, but nothing is what it seems.
Nothing's worth it.
jay anderson
Nothing's as it seems.
I think with Tom DeLong and the UFO subject and Tudor Stars Academy and all the things that have happened since like 2017 New York Times, I have opinions on it because I think I might be the first guest that you've had on that wasn't already quite established.
So I've had to work my way up through social media, through the interactions in the community, to personal relations with people that aren't big names or anything like that.
I've had to work my way up it.
So I've seen and been exposed to things that perhaps people like Jeremy Corbel and others who are already quite big names haven't seen because they're too big.
They don't need to be on social media looking at fucking comments or like what's going on in the X space.
But if you are like that, you start to notice things.
And so what's interesting to me, despite what anyone wants to say about Stephen Greer, and I've got my own issues with Stephen Greer, what's interesting to me is that the only person really who was making noise prior to TTSA was Stephen Greer.
He was the one that was putting out Netflix documentaries that were getting seen by millions of people all over the world.
And he was saying, you know, these are black budget illegal programs.
This is an anti-congressional crime against humanity.
We need to be busting down the doors.
This is, you know, not exactly what they would want to hear if they were inside the national security state.
There's this guy out there saying this.
What do you do about that?
Well, do you know how Tom DeLong got linked up at the very beginning to all of this?
joe rogan
No.
jay anderson
So he's always been a UFO guy.
And because of his background and the money, he was able to secure connections.
And he was very friendly with Greer.
He was best buds with Greer at one point.
In fact, there's a video of him when he's quite young.
And he's pointing out all of the witness, UFO witness tapes that he's got in his library.
And he's like, you know, these are all, I'm holding on to these for a guy.
He's got like 50 whistleblowers.
He's bringing this all out.
And this is before Greer, you know, kind of made the announcement.
So it's obviously Greer.
And Tom DeLong's on Fade to Black in, I want to say 2015, talking about this, where he tells a story of how a friend of his at Lockheed Martin calls him up and says, hey, we're having a family and friends meet and greet over at Lockheed Martin.
Would you want to introduce the bosses to the stage?
And he said, yeah, but I want 10 minutes with your bosses afterwards.
And they were like, okay.
And so he went and he introduced them on stage.
And then he tells a story of being taken through, you know, these white noise corridors and down into this place where eventually he was chilling with the guys at Skunk Works and, you know, these big directors are all sitting in this room.
They're like, okay, what is it you want to talk about?
This is where he pitches Two to the Stars Academy of Arts and Science and this framework.
And what's interesting is on the radio when he's talking about this, he's saying, you have to approach these guys like you want to be of service.
You know, I was saying, I'm being of service.
I want to help.
I want to help.
So you've got a disruptive rogue person out there, Stephen Greer, saying all this stuff, causing commotion.
What do we do about that?
I have no idea.
Suddenly, in walks a rock star.
Use me.
Because that's basically what he said.
Use me.
I'm happy to do whatever.
I am your conjuate into the public.
Now, no disrespect to Tom.
I've met him.
He's a lovely guy and he's very passionate about the subject.
But I do think he was used.
And what you get from there is the Two to Stars Academy platform.
Suddenly you have this official kind of green lit disclosure, very soft disclosure that's nothing like Stephen Greer's disclosure.
And we're all being encouraged to partake and support in this very, what should we say, curated method of soft disclosure for the people.
I think that they were very worried about what type of disruptive truths might come out before it was time to talk about them.
And then suddenly Tom DeLong was a very useful medium for communicating this.
When you see things like the WikiLeaks emails between him and John Podesta, where he's literally saying this is about bolstering PR for the military industrial complex from a disenfranchised youth and the generations of youth today don't trust the government.
We want to change that.
We want to change the perception of the military and the government.
He's literally emailing John Podesta about this.
So it's very clear that at the very least he was willing to be the messenger of whatever message they wanted to give him.
And it just so happens that that message completely counteracts what Greer is talking about in terms of classified black budget programs that have already cracked reverse engineering.
We cracked anti-gravity in October 1954.
You know, this kind of stuff.
It's like complete reversal of that narrative.
joe rogan
Interesting.
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
Interesting.
Well, it makes sense.
That's the, what's the term?
Useful idiots?
jay anderson
Useful idiot.
joe rogan
Yeah, they love doing that.
Yeah.
You know, I've said it before, I'll say it again.
I know I've had people on this podcast that were doing that with me.
And I know they were coming on saying a bunch of nonsense.
But you have to let them talk because the truth comes out in the wash.
For sure.
And I think what's interesting about the age of disclosure is this narrative of the reality of what happened.
If it did happen, there's lying to Congress, there's misappropriation of funds.
You're going to need amnesty.
And so this is the narrative.
This narrative is we need amnesty.
It's like it's kind of a smart way to do it, right?
Do it in a documentary, have all these people that are probably implicated in some way say we need amnesty.
All these people that say that they know about these programs, amnesty is important because people have been.
But what they've been doing, really, if they have been doing what we assume they've been doing, we assume they've retrieved crashed UFOs and they've back engineered them.
We assume they've used that technology.
We assume they're aware that there's non-human intelligences that are far beyond our technological capabilities and that we interact with them.
You've committed a crime against humanity by not telling people that.
Because we all operate under the assumption that we have an understanding of what our role is in this ecosystem of life.
And if our role is not even remotely at the apex, if we are being visited and manipulated, and if we're actually a product of experiments, you should fucking tell us.
You guys can't be hanging out at Raytheon in the fucking conference.
jay anderson
You believe this shit?
joe rogan
Like, yeah, with your gold Rolexes on, dude.
You motherfuckers.
unidentified
Right?
joe rogan
Right?
Tell us.
jay anderson
But we can't handle the truth.
But they're right.
joe rogan
They are right with the amnesty thing.
I think that's the pathway.
I mean, look, these guys are not going to.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
What they stole, they stole.
Okay.
What they did, they did.
The lying to Congress, the lies have been told.
Let's fucking find out what the truth is.
These guys, whatever they did, they did.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
You didn't stop it then.
Let it go.
The more important thing is, let's find out if this is real.
That's more important than everything.
For the race, for the human race, the entire human race.
And for science and technology, to have all this stuff locked down like that and not allow the great young minds that are coming up right now to have access to this is crazy.
You're wasting one of the most valuable resources that we have with secrecy.
jay anderson
I think there's so many different reasons why they might want to keep this a secret in terms of breakthrough energy and propulsion systems.
Like there's so many different implications to that, right?
joe rogan
Massively disruptive.
jay anderson
Massively disruptive.
And could you imagine some whacked out fucking dude with a zero-point energy device?
joe rogan
Or you imagine some guy who's running an oil company who finds out that they're about to do something like that?
Like the fuck you are.
How about this guy at MIT that just got assassinated in his home?
jay anderson
Dude, the wet works in the corporate world is very real.
joe rogan
This is very real.
This guy was, one of the more disturbing theories he had was that not only is the shift of the magnetic poles that here, I'll send it to you, Jamie.
But his take on it was that the shift of the magnetic poles is necessary in order to maintain, well, I don't want to fuck it up.
jay anderson
Well, like a natural Earth cycle that has to happen.
joe rogan
I'm sorry, I'm trying to think and look it up at the same time.
Here it is.
I'll send it to you, Jimmy.
Sorry for the dead air, folks.
Okay.
So it says the assassinated MIT plasma scientists warned that Earth requires periodic magnetic reversals to sustain its field.
jay anderson
Interesting.
joe rogan
No reversal equals no dynamo equals the magnetic field dissipates.
The last time this happened, in the tweet it says Noah's flood.
jay anderson
Oh, Sunweather Man.
Oh, I know both these guys.
unidentified
This guy who has a whistleblower, yeah, from Monster Man.
joe rogan
Is that not loading?
The clip?
unidentified
Plasma Physics 101 fluid description.
joe rogan
It seems like the clip's not.
Okay, let's hear what he has to say.
It's really interesting shit, man.
unidentified
You mentioned that the Earth's magnetic field was constant in the last billion years.
jay anderson
Roughly.
unidentified
So yeah.
Is it right that the Earth has lost 10% of its magnetic field in the last 150 years?
And how come?
nuno loureiro
So excellent question, Alec.
Thank you.
So when I say that the Earth's magnetic field has remained roughly constant, what I mean is if you look over long-ish time scales, its magnitude is roughly constant.
So of course it varies, right?
And it reverses sometimes, right?
And those reversals of the Earth's magnetic field, so you know, reversal meaning the North Pole becomes the South Pole and vice versa.
So those happen.
And there's even interesting stories you can tell about how those reversals of the Earth's magnetic field correlate with many ice ages and things like this.
But the idea is that if you average over these periodic reversals or fluctuations, the amplitude of the field has remained roughly constant.
And the idea is that if there was no induction, if there was no dynamo working, you and I wouldn't be talking, right?
The magnetic field would have diffused very quickly, right, in within 10 to the 5 years.
The Earth would be left without a magnetic field, and the Earth's magnetic field protected from cosmic radiation.
And if you were open to that radiation, well, you wouldn't be here, like I said, nor would I. Thank you very much.
unidentified
Wild.
joe rogan
And they just put bullets into that dude.
unidentified
Well, listen, it could have been a robbery.
joe rogan
We don't know.
I mean, Massachusetts has a lot of robberies.
They've got a lot of it's one of them East Coast liberal-run cities that's got a crime problem.
jay anderson
Completely fucked.
joe rogan
And I'm sure, you know, as an MIT professor, he's probably lived nice.
jay anderson
Yeah, I mean, it's possible.
unidentified
It's possible.
joe rogan
But it also is possible that somebody killed him.
And imagine if they killed him because he's telling us, hey, Earth's about to reverse its magnetic poles, and we might be fucked.
A cataclysm might be coming.
jay anderson
Well, this is what I think there was a knowledge of in deep antiquity.
There was a knowledge of cycles, of Earth cycles, and they were preparing for it.
Why are these structures built in a way that's anti-seismic, that's resistant to incredible force?
joe rogan
Right.
unidentified
You know, the amount of- Sakawaman's such a good example of that.
jay anderson
It's really an incredible example.
I mean, the level of ingenuity and also the fact that they're finding that these walls go way deeper, right?
Because not just the excavation where they're going deep down and finding new blocks of stone, but just the walls.
There's key excavations going on around the walls.
They just keep going down.
So it's like this place was buried, maybe.
A lot of earth push up and submerged into the ground.
Clearly, this place experienced some form of global upheaval.
And what's really weird about a place like Peru, for example, is that prior to the, well, at the end of the last glacial maximum, around 19,000 years ago, when the Earth started to warm up again, there were certain climatologically stable corridors.
And Peru was one of those areas which was actually quite climatologically stable.
So at the end of the LGM, the last glacial maximum, to the Younger Dryas, it's about 6,000 plus, 6,000 in change.
We've taken ourselves from horse and cart to supercomputers in less than 150 years.
So the idea that areas of the world that had stability for about 6,000 years couldn't create something incredible, and then the Younger Dryas comes and it takes it all away for the most part, it's very provocative in Peru because of, again, the existence of the inca structures that are very quite pristine, actually, and still standing, very simple, and yet they are surrounded by broken megaliths and multi-ton structures that have gone through incredible damage.
joe rogan
And what I was getting at when I was saying about that area is the way the stones are interlocked would protect it against earthquakes.
jay anderson
Yeah, dissipate the force through all of these different areas.
It allows for the force, for the kinetic force, to dissipate through the structure instead of it being focused and blowing apart one area of it.
So it's clearly done for the purposes of trying to prevent massive amounts of force.
Where would they get that type of a concept from?
It makes me wonder.
It makes me wonder if they did have a knowledge of great cycles, you know?
Like the Adam and Eve story, you know that whole thing that was like classified by the CIA for a minute?
The Adam and Eve story?
joe rogan
It was classified by the CIA.
jay anderson
It was listed on their Freedom of Information outline.
joe rogan
Oh, right.
What was that again?
jay anderson
It was a deep research into cycles, great cycles of cataclysmic destruction on Earth, by a guy called, his name was Chan Thomas, but I think that was a pseudonym or a faint, not real name.
And he actually had at the beginning of it, like a series of people he had listed who, without whom this book would not be possible.
And it was like, you know, top five-star generals.
And like, it's like, okay.
So, you know, this guy had the, you know, Chan Thomas, the Adam and Eve story.
It's all about this great cyclical cataclysm that does take place every, what was it, like 12,000 years or something like that.
And that the ancients had a knowledge of this.
And I think that this is something that we will probably begin to realize is that somewhere in deep antiquity, there was a level of knowledge that is very contradictory to what we understand now.
And I think places like Peru, places like Egypt and others, Malta, Gobekli, Tepe, of course, it's becoming very palpable that there was something before this.
joe rogan
Also, when you see the spikes of the Earth's temperature, when you see those ups and downs, those glaciers and those warming periods, is there a uniform time in between those spikes?
jay anderson
In terms of?
joe rogan
Is it like predictable?
jay anderson
I don't know.
joe rogan
Is it like every 12,000 years it gets a little funky?
I imagine it's probably for about 12,000 years, comes back.
Right.
jay anderson
But this is, again, this is one of the things that people in like, you know, the conspiracy world would say they're keeping from us.
They're keeping this knowledge.
Yes, there are 12,000 year cycles and we are just not being allowed to know that knowledge.
joe rogan
But that seems weird.
jay anderson
I don't know.
joe rogan
Well, but they have models of the past.
jay anderson
Exactly.
joe rogan
You know, from core samples and things along those lines.
But we do know that it's never static.
And we do know that there have been these periods.
And they do look like a strange graph.
It's not a flat line.
Oh, look, it's all getting warmer.
No, it's always crazy.
So like what is causing these dips and these rises and these weird periods that seem to be rhythmic?
You know what I'm saying?
It's not like there's an immense time of heating and then a small time of cooling.
And then no, it's up and down and up and down.
jay anderson
It's almost like the heartbeat of the planet, isn't it?
You look at the planet as some form of conscious entity.
It's certainly capable of producing conscious beings on top of it.
So I wonder about that.
And the mycelial network and these kind of elements to the planet that almost seem like neurological architecture.
joe rogan
Well, even if you could look from afar, if you could have the concept of the Earth, like the water's moving, the clouds are moving.
unidentified
Yeah.
jay anderson
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
joe rogan
It's like a live thing almost.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Obviously, it's not moving because it's tissue, but that doesn't mean that there's not a force that's all connected and working in harmony.
jay anderson
Exactly.
joe rogan
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
jay anderson
I mean, that's why I think plasmic intelligence is very interesting, because it's this idea that a self-organizing plasmic structure could in some way create consciousness inside of it.
And we don't understand where consciousness comes from.
We still don't.
So it's very open to the idea of possibility.
And, you know, I've spoken to some pretty interesting scientists like Dr. Salvatore Pais.
He's the guy that was responsible for the UFO and US Navy UFO patents that got put out a few years back, like underwater, undersea plasmic generators and things like this.
He was a US Space Force engineer, and he is very much of the opinion that plasma itself is capable of becoming conscious, not conscious on its own.
But 99% of the observable universe is made out of plasma.
99%.
Isn't it weird how we get taught about solids, gases, and liquids, but not plasma, the fourth state of matter?
That's 99% of the universe.
Why aren't we taught about that in school?
joe rogan
That's weird.
jay anderson
Weird, right?
Do you ever remember being taught plasma in school?
joe rogan
Well, when did they start learning that?
jay anderson
Well, I mean, I don't know, but it's certainly before my time in school.
I didn't get taught it.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
So why would they are you saying that they perhaps are hiding this?
jay anderson
I think that there's things within plasma physics that are so novel and exotic, like these self-organizing EVOs, exotic vacuum objects, and the science that they're studying.
Have you ever heard of the Sapphire Project?
joe rogan
No.
jay anderson
It's kind of gone quiet now.
Hal Putov got involved with it for a minute, where they're claiming to bottle the stars and they're creating these plasmic, you know, self-organizing plasmas inside these chambers that they were claiming could transform metals from one metal into gold or transmutation of elements and complete revolution of propulsion and energy.
And then it just fizzles out.
joe rogan
I always wondered about that.
jay anderson
There was some alchemy there.
joe rogan
Why were people really trying to make gold?
That seems so crazy that you think you could make something like that.
And I always wonder, did maybe somebody used to make it and they have like this story of how people used to make gold?
Like if there was, like imagine the caps of the Great Pyramids are in gold, right?
What if they made that gold?
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Right?
What if they had gotten to it's not impossible to assume like if the earth creates gold, it's not impossible to think that we could take the elements of the earth and create gold as well.
There's got to be a way to do it.
jay anderson
There's got to be a way to do it.
joe rogan
Is there a way to create gold currently?
jay anderson
I don't know.
joe rogan
That's a good question.
Let's put that into our sponsor.
How do you make gold?
jamie vernon
Well, let me show you what I asked first.
The alchemy history of gold automatically brought up ancient Egypt metallurgy blending four classical elements.
Whoa.
joe rogan
So there is some sort of earth, air, fire, and water, and you make gold.
jamie vernon
It spread to Greco and Roman texts via the Islamic world in the 8th century.
Were they made experimental methods?
Gold plating is maybe what they're getting at.
unidentified
I don't know if that's unless they were trying to create gold.
jay anderson
A lot of alchemy is also kind of personal algorithm, alchemy of the soul.
And so it's not always necessarily meant as a physical thing, turning base metals into gold.
It's more about turning you, base human, into a golden person.
Like a lot of the times in alchemy, it's more about the personal development of your spirit and your soul.
joe rogan
Maybe they're clearly talking about metallurgy here.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
jay anderson
I mean, like, right here.
joe rogan
So, but I mean, if you, if gold was a valuable, if it was about a valuable part of technology, which it is, and it had conducting aspects to it, it's very conducive or it's very good at conducting.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And you can make it modern methods.
Particle accelerators like CERN's Large Hadron Collider achieve this by slamming lead nuclei together in near-miss collisions, generating intense electromagnetic fields that eject three protons from the lead, 82 protons to form gold, 79 protons.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
The Alice experiment detected up to 89,000 gold nuclei per second during lead-lead runs, totaling, or lead-lead runs.
I'm not sure which one.
Totaling 29 picograms over years, trillions of times less than needed for visible amounts.
Whoa, that's crazy.
unidentified
Trillions of times less than needed for visual amounts.
joe rogan
Early in 1980, Glenn Sieberg transmuted bismuth into gold isotope using carbon and neon beams at Lawrence Berkeley lab.
jamie vernon
So maybe they used the pyramids for lightning strikes to create gold or iron ore streams, and next thing you know, you get gold.
That's why they had so much gold.
joe rogan
I mean, who knows?
Who knows what they figured out?
unidentified
But we should be able to ask these questions and not be well, it's certainly fascinating.
joe rogan
It's certainly fascinating that people have been obsessed with the possibility of making gold.
Obviously, it's because gold is rare and very valuable.
But here's the question: why is gold very valuable?
You can't make a weapon out of it.
How did it rise to prominence?
jay anderson
Isn't there some translations that are from the old Sumerian Babylonian text where it's kind of like we were made to mine gold for the money?
joe rogan
That's all Zacharias Sitchin.
jay anderson
It's like Zachariah Sitchin, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, Zacharias Hitchin, though, is very controversial.
I'm too stupid to know who's right, but I do know that I always, when I talk about Zachariah, I always talk about the website sitchiniswrong.com.
So there's a website where it seems like he was the only one that was buying into that.
And, you know, when I talked to Wes Huff, he doesn't even think that Zachariah Sitchin could actually read Sumerian.
jay anderson
Just fucking guessing.
joe rogan
Well, it might be a little, you know, I don't want to disparage the great man because he's not with us anymore.
But he might not have been totally honest, or he might have been convinced.
You know, some people just become true believers.
jay anderson
Yeah, no, for sure.
joe rogan
What he's saying essentially is that he tried to learn Sumerian.
And Wes knows many different ancient languages.
Like, he's a brilliant, brilliant guy.
He's like, I couldn't figure it out.
I couldn't figure it out.
I couldn't do it.
Now, obviously, there have been translations of Sumerian.
There are people that can do it.
It's incredibly difficult.
And it's also apparently not related to any other languages because it's so ancient, it's weird.
And then the cuneiform and all that stuff.
It's like, good luck.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Good luck figuring out what they were saying.
jay anderson
I know, I always wondered how he'd actually kind of come to those positions on it.
joe rogan
It is incredibly complex.
And the only people that really know are the people that are that deep into it that they can read it as well.
And they don't seem to agree with him.
But at the end of the day, whatever was going on over in that part of the world, they had a lot of discussions of things that came from the sky.
They had a detailed map of the solar system, which is very weird.
A 5,000-plus-year-old detailed map of the solar system with all the planets, Jupiter, Mars, Earth.
It's like, what's that?
jay anderson
Yeah, how are you achieving this?
joe rogan
What are these giant people with monkeys on their laps?
jay anderson
And like, you know, Gilgamesh holding a lion like it's a little cat in loads of statues.
joe rogan
Not all these dudes have wings.
jay anderson
Very, very typically dismissed as kind of like, you know, oh, it was just an intellectual giant or a giant of power and regality.
It's like, okay, but there's a lot of them.
There's a lot of references all across the world to these giants.
So, you know, I find that very interesting.
unidentified
And, you know, like, this is the reality of fossils.
joe rogan
This is the reality of fossils.
There is a tiny, tiny amount of all the things that die that leave a fossil.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Most things don't leave a fossil when they die.
They get absorbed by the earth, eaten by scavengers, bacteria, you rot away, the sun bleaches your bones, and it's over.
unidentified
It's over.
joe rogan
Within a few hundred years, there's nothing left.
Occasionally, you get lucky, and someone or a dinosaur falls into a bog and you get evidence.
But if you don't get that evidence, it doesn't mean it didn't exist.
You know, and the giant one is a weird one.
jay anderson
It is a weird one.
joe rogan
It's a weird one.
Because there's so many depictions in ancient literature of giants, of giant beings.
And you got to wonder: okay, are we talking about like men from Iceland?
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Are we talking about giants that are just enormous human beings?
Like those big chads.
But those dudes that do those strong man competitions, they all like the mountain.
jay anderson
Yeah, man.
joe rogan
Those guys all live in Iceland.
They're all from Iceland.
What the fuck is that about?
jay anderson
Exactly.
Well, what is that about?
joe rogan
Vikings.
Right.
They were the Vikings.
And that's what's left.
But is it that?
Are we talking about that?
Or are we talking about another race of human that's even larger?
And if they found it, do they tell us?
Like, they tell us about certain.
They tell us about Denisovan, similar to us.
They tell us about Homo Julien, similar to us, just a little bit bigger.
They found a fucking four-foot skull.
Do they tell us?
jay anderson
Well, it's like there's like snippets, isn't there, from the black and white days, 1920s, where the Smithsonian kind of very quickly covered things up.
And like, this is very much the same.
joe rogan
It's giant bones.
The burnt bones from a giant human.
jay anderson
Yeah, there seems to be.
joe rogan
And there's all these Native American stories about giant red-headed humans.
jay anderson
And, you know, in the burial mounds, supposedly.
joe rogan
But here's the thing: this is the real question.
Would, if archaeologists stumbled upon a four-foot head and they were under the guidance of the university, would they shut it down?
jay anderson
That's such a good question.
joe rogan
Would they release it?
I am fascinated by the fact that I have to ask that question.
jay anderson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Because I would assume that if archaeologists found, of course, they would release it.
We have found evidence of a giant, like a giant human being.
And this might be one, the first one we find.
It might have been a whole race of them that existed 20,000 years ago.
jay anderson
Yeah, I. Would they tell us?
I don't know, Joe.
joe rogan
That's what's weird.
We don't know if they would tell us.
jay anderson
I don't know if they would tell us.
joe rogan
They might not.
The government might step in and say, you are not allowed.
jay anderson
Well, that's the thing, is it might supersede just academic circles and archaeology.
It might get a whole bit more serious.
Why?
The implications of our ancient history and what exactly was taking place.
I am fascinated by some areas that seem to have a level of kind of like theologic reference to them.
So, you know, the Book of Enoch and the Watchers.
And they descend down on Mount Hermon in Baalbek, right?
So that's Baalbek, which is Baal Beck, the lord of the Becca Valley, and Baal, the storm god, like the one that everyone, you know, talks about the sacrifices to Baal.
joe rogan
It's also the place that has these insane trillion stones.
jay anderson
I was just about to mention them.
unidentified
Yeah.
jay anderson
That's it, the trilithons.
The trillion stones.
800 to 1,000 tons.
800 to 1,000 tons apiece.
joe rogan
And they're not even laying on the ground.
jay anderson
No, they've been lifted up.
They've been lifted up quite significantly.
And this is the thing, man.
It's like, you know, somewhere like this.
So you've got this weird story about this is basically 30 miles away from there is Mount Hermon, where the watchers apparently came down from the sky.
unidentified
Oh, fuck.
jay anderson
And then you've got these impossible blocks in this, and the quarry there as well.
The quarry there, you have like the stone of the pregnant woman, which is like 1,250 tons.
And there's another one there that's like 1,500 tons.
Like these were never fully excavated, but they're there getting ready, and they've just been documented in situ.
But then, yeah, 300 meters up the road or less is the Temple of Jupiter, which again, mainstream academics will attribute to first century Romans.
But the first century Romans had like wooden pulleys and like little wooden cranes.
Like this is insane.
This is an 800 to 1,000 ton block, three of them that were lifted up.
I think it's like at least like 20 meters or something.
joe rogan
Jamie, can you please show us a photo of it?
I always love looking at these.
jay anderson
Especially if you can find one with a human being standing in it, like Corseti, if he's like, it's phenomenal how big these are.
joe rogan
It's so crazy.
jay anderson
It freaks me out.
joe rogan
It's so crazy to think that they, we believe, they use some sort of stone tools, copper tools and pulleys.
It's just stupid.
And you got it out of the quarry how?
jay anderson
Well, then.
joe rogan
Yeah.
jay anderson
Oh, so that's a brilliant place, though.
That's Olient and Tambo in Peru.
Fantastic area, which I'll be showing in my next episode of Ancient Technology.
joe rogan
It's the Trillium stone.
jay anderson
Trilithon.
joe rogan
The Trilithon.
jay anderson
The Trilithon stones.
Yeah, Baalbek.
joe rogan
And one of the interesting things that Corsetti was saying is like, that's not even a place where they take a lot of tourists to.
No, so there it is.
So you see the person and then look above how big those stones are.
jay anderson
This is not sensible to attribute to first century Romans.
joe rogan
No, go back to just the Lebanon ones.
That's it.
They are so big.
jay anderson
That one.
And then there's a good black and white one we see with the yellow.
Yeah, there you go.
There's two little dudes sitting on top of them.
joe rogan
Crazy.
jay anderson
Absolutely phenomenal.
And then, you know, the smaller blocks on top, that is first century Romans.
Absolutely, without a doubt.
There is obvious evidence with the Temple of Jupiter.
Yeah, they built it on top of an ancient, ancient foundation, which they were not capable of doing.
joe rogan
Probably a landing pad.
jay anderson
That's what so many people say that.
Whenever I post like any, it's like, here's a landing pad.
joe rogan
Let's make it sort of spaceships.
Landing pad for ships.
jay anderson
But what's crazy about that as well, just a real quick aside, well, not even an aside, it's an addition to that.
Is that okay?
So the mainstream attributes is the first century Romans.
But then the Romans liked to brag about all the things they did.
And third century Romans bragged about the Lateran obelisk that's now sitting in Rome.
And the Lateran Obelisk is about 350 to 400 tons.
That's the heaviest recorded lift in Roman history.
These are 800 to 1,000 tons.
They never even mentioned them.
So it's weird that we attribute it to Romans, but it's because we, within our model for history, we can't not, if we're going to listen to academics, right?
So you have to then invoke fringe theories.
joe rogan
I had a rep Luna on the podcast.
jay anderson
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
And she was the one who really got me to read the book of Enoch.
jay anderson
She's digging in.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
jay anderson
She's digging in.
joe rogan
She's all in on the UFOs.
jay anderson
I know she is.
joe rogan
I mean, is she useful to them?
It's all about it.
jay anderson
Maybe though.
unidentified
Maybe.
Maybe.
jay anderson
It's hard to know.
joe rogan
But when I started reading it, now if that was included in the Bible, if they had, because it really was rabbis that decided that it didn't jive with the Torah, right?
Right, right.
And so they said, no, no, no, this one's kind of crazy.
If that was in the Bible, and that's what we were taught, things would be different.
But meanwhile, that is in the same area of Qumran written down as the book of Isaiah.
So all these things that are included in the Bible, that's there.
It's all the same word.
Why are we ignoring some of it?
Like, that's really crazy.
Why ignoring the stuff that seems the most kooky?
jay anderson
Again, I think that there's probably maybe disagreements because, I mean, you know, there's so much change for the biblical canon from all of these different councils like the Council of Nicaea, all these different censorings and changing Of the Bible, it's probably personal issue.
It could be something as simple as just someone who personally did not believe that.
It was like, that's bullshit.
Remove that.
That's not real.
There's no way they were giants.
But I love how at the beginning of the Bible, it's like there were giants in those times and the times before.
joe rogan
Yeah.
jay anderson
Anyway, all over moving on, never mention it again, like in any sort of real context, other than David and Goliath and a few situations.
But no, I really am starting to wonder if there was a giant race that was on the street.
I think there was, dude, I really do.
joe rogan
The Native American depictions alone.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's too much story, too many stories of enormous men that they had to kill.
unidentified
Yeah.
jay anderson
Yeah.
And their history, their oral tradition goes so far back.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, imagine we're talking 10,000 years.
Now that we know that human beings lived in North America 22,000 plus years ago, right?
So the fossilized footprints that they found in New Mexico.
So that's 22,000 years.
So imagine if 22,000 years ago, these things were a real thing.
How many of them have you found?
You haven't found any bones of humans from 22,000 years ago in North America, have you?
No.
Right?
unidentified
So why exactly?
joe rogan
Does the Smithsonian have them, these motherfuckers?
If they really do have a giant down there, I think they probably do, Joe.
Can you imagine?
I feel like there's like a tomb that you have to go into.
It's like a vault that cranks open the vault.
jay anderson
It's like the history version of Area 51.
joe rogan
You see a fucking head the size of this table, and you're like, what?
jay anderson
That's what we're dealing with.
That's what we're dealing with.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
We got to kill them off.
jay anderson
Maybe.
joe rogan
Which totally makes sense.
Why would you let that motherfucker live?
Right.
You got a 10-foot-tall, 12-foot-tall.
jay anderson
That's a problem.
joe rogan
Yeah.
2,000-pound human that eats people.
jay anderson
That is a problem.
I wonder, you know, I always get this because the watchers themselves are never described as giant beings.
unidentified
Right.
jay anderson
I wonder where the giant came into the equation.
joe rogan
Well, isn't it us compared to them?
jay anderson
Maybe.
Because maybe they were slight aliens like Alien Greys or something.
And, you know.
joe rogan
Well, look at the description of the Nephilim, how they destroyed everything.
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like they created this thing that consumed everything, destroyed everything, including mankind.
Like, what does that sound like?
jay anderson
It sounds like us.
joe rogan
That sounds like us.
jay anderson
It sounds like us.
joe rogan
Right.
And also, like, you're saying mankind.
Like, mankind, what are you saying?
Are you saying aliens?
Are you saying, who wrote this?
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, what is mankind?
Like, what does that term mean?
I bet you're not saying man.
I bet you're probably using an ancient language to describe whatever the dominant force was at the time that's writing all this down.
What are we talking about?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
What is these watchers?
They mated with humans?
So what are they?
And they created something that destroyed everything.
What?
So, okay.
What is that?
What are you talking about?
And doesn't that sound exactly like humans?
Like, what do we do?
We fucking destroy everything.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
We destroy everything.
We light things on fire.
We suck all the fish out of the ocean.
We throw our garbage in it.
We are so destructive.
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
And we're so consuming.
We consume.
You know, we're one of the only animals that dies because we eat too much.
unidentified
Yeah.
Right, right.
joe rogan
Right?
We're one of the only examples.
unidentified
Yeah.
jay anderson
Well, and we're one of the only, we are the only example on this planet of the level of intelligence that we have.
I mean, it's just phenomenal.
I mean, really quite phenomenal when you consider all of the various avenues of evolution that have been given the opportunity.
joe rogan
We have a massive leap.
Yeah.
jay anderson
Phenomenally, but a leap that has to, in some way, have been intervened with, in my opinion.
I mean, it's such a quantum leap in our ability of cognition and the brain size.
I mean, I do find the stoned ape theory very interesting and the concept of using psychedelics.
And I think there's a role to play in that for sure.
But I just think that when you have such a novel trajectory change from every other creature, every other animal on this planet, that tells me that there is something fundamentally accelerated in humans.
And whether that can just be put down to shamanic use of psychedelics, I don't know.
I think that when you invoke again all of these various theologic stories, it becomes clear that something was interfacing with us.
And perhaps at one point we were interfacing with them.
And there was a communication and a relation that has since long degraded after, you know, cataclysmic outreaches.
joe rogan
I think the evolution that came out of psychedelics and primitive man was the escape from the barbaric nature of our roots.
Right, right, right.
don't think it's necessarily the development of the human brain I think it's probably a way to also a way to use the human brain with its primate background but soften the ego right Right?
Yeah, yeah.
And endorse a feeling of community, like promote a feeling of community and love and the connectiveness that you get from psychedelics.
It will allow you to traverse the timelines between incredibly barbaric hunter-gatherers with stone-tip tools to agrarian societies where people are all living together and cooperating.
And it makes sense.
But what doesn't make sense is the giant leap to being a human in the first place.
jay anderson
No.
joe rogan
It's kooky.
unidentified
It is kooky.
joe rogan
And it's in the Bible.
At least it's in the book of Enoch.
That's the crazy part about it is that they literally describe what we're and not just us.
Like many people have theorized.
Like, have we been a product?
Are we a product of genetic manipulation?
Are we a product of accelerated evolution?
jay anderson
Well, again, my own experience is I just feel like there is quite obviously a vast intelligence spectrum out there, in my opinion.
And I think it goes beyond our own perception of space and time.
And I think that there are likely things that can come in from, you know, realms that we just don't really believe are real, like the astral and even the realm of the imagination is an interesting thing.
What is this place inside of our heads that we can instantaneously create anything we want?
And all things, including everything on this table, once came from inside someone's mind.
Like we are excretors of ideas into reality.
We kind of render reality into something that nothing else does.
And I think that there is a spark within us that speaks to what people would call a divine spark for sure.
And maybe that is a divine spark.
Maybe it's a highly intelligent race that intervened and gave us that spark.
But we are entirely different.
And I do think that as we begin to get deeper and deeper into kind of the physics of our reality and our fundamental connection to it, we start realizing that our physiology, our body is like an antenna.
It's like a technology.
It's an instrument for picking up on signals and perhaps even consciousness itself.
I don't know if you're familiar with microtubules and the orchestrated objective reduction theory by Stuart Hamroff and Sir Roger Penrose.
joe rogan
How many times do you bring that up to people and they go, oh yeah, I know what you're talking about?
jay anderson
Oh, I know exactly what you're talking about.
Well, I hang out with some weird fucking people, but I just thought it might have come up.
I definitely have heard Duncan Trossel say to you, microtubules, man.
joe rogan
Yes.
jay anderson
Microtubules.
No, so I did an interview with an anesthesiologist called Stuart Hamroff and him and Sir Roger Penrose developed a model called the Orchestrated Objective Reduction Theory or Ork OR looking at microtubules, which are these tiny helical structures inside our neurons.
And I forget the exact metric, but it's something ridiculous, like 10,000 microtubules per neuron.
So it's just, you know, this incredible architecture of these tiny little helical structures that apparently are so small that they interact with quantum vibrations in fields.
That's how fine and tiny they are.
And the reason I bring this up is because I think that we're getting deeper now with things like the Orc OR theory into looking at the structures within humanity that actually seem to be receiving nodes or receptive nodes for energy that could then be translated into consciousness.
The whole idea of are we generating consciousness from our brain or are we receiving consciousness and we're just a conduit for it.
And I think the evidence is getting a little bit more clearer that we're a conduit.
And I just wonder if that's evolution naturally or if that's interaction from these others that have come and meddled with our genealogy.
joe rogan
It's a good question that we'll have to ponder when I come back from peeing.
jay anderson
You do that.
unidentified
Let's pause.
jay anderson
No worries.
unidentified
All right.
jay anderson
Well, Jamie brought something up, which is a really interesting video that I took when I was out in Saqqara in Egypt, again with Jeffrey Drum.
He was taking me through.
And yeah, this is an awesome place.
So just for context, before we play it, yeah, take it back to the beginning.
This is inside the pyramid of Yunas in Saqqara.
And this is deep down inside of it inside what they call the burial chamber.
Now you see all of these amazing Arabic artwork that's been quite relatively crudely scratched in.
Now you see that glow?
That's actually calcite crystal and that's limestone.
Now the entire back of this chamber, like this wall, the back wall, the other wall and the ceiling and the floor is made out of a slab of calcite crystal.
But what's really interesting about this is that when you take a flashlight and you put it in a certain angle on this wall, something very interesting appears.
Boom.
joe rogan
Huh.
jay anderson
An otherwise invisible etching of an individual.
You can see the navel, the belly button, and the arms.
And this is completely invisible until you get that flashlight.
Now these have been actually smoothed.
Let me go promo for my episode, but these have actually been smoothed into the calcite crystal itself.
And then obviously these Aramaic writings and pictographs have been scratched on afterwards.
So clearly, this is the original artwork of this chamber, but it's not perceptible without a very specific angle of light that creates the shadows.
And these are on the other side of the wall as well.
I think in this clip, maybe he doesn't show it.
But very, very strange.
Now, this entire pyramid is acoustically profound.
I mean, the acoustics inside of this are unbelievable, the amount of echo that you get.
And the entire Saqqara site, we went around it.
And I mean, my God, it's a weird sight, man.
You've got, again, just incredibly huge slabs of rose quartz granite.
And there's one area that's like on the other side of the pyramid, not even near the entrance, which is just this huge port cullis made of granite with interlocking pieces where clearly another piece of stone was slid between them.
But this is nowhere even connected to the pyramid infrastructure.
And they don't say anything about it.
Strewn across this entire place, you've got huge blocks of granite with drill holes in them.
You can see the striation marks going all the way through them.
And his opinion, Jeffrey's, and I think there's merit to it because in Cairo Museum, there's a little cabinet of laboratory equipment, like jugs and apothecary bottles that were recovered from Saqqara, including a little plate.
There's like a little plaque.
This wasn't included.
This is put into the actual exhibition, but it's tucked into the corner of Cairo Museum.
You have to find it and you have to really look for it.
And there's a little plaque saying that the area of Saqqara was a laboratory.
And again, like this completely contradicts all of the things that they say about ancient Egypt, but it's in the Cairo Museum.
It's literally written as the ancient laboratory of Saqqara.
And so, you know, what's going on there?
Why is there a contradiction like that that's being acknowledged?
And it's truly just an incredible place with these shadow figures and the acoustic resonance of the site, the rose granite.
joe rogan
So why do you think that it was originally these carvings were in the wall and then they wrote on it afterwards?
jay anderson
Well, I think it's just another case of a later civilization coming across an incredibly amazing place and carving on it.
Maybe they didn't even see these figures because you have to have a very specific type of light to actually be able to see them.
You have to get it at that angle.
It's possible.
joe rogan
Detect by looking at it that there's some variation.
jay anderson
I mean, you can see when you actually know what you're looking for.
joe rogan
Like a little bit of wiggle.
jay anderson
But barely anything.
It's like really hard to perceive.
So maybe they didn't even know that these things were down there when they went.
There's another part of this when you're going through the chambers where it's rose granite, rose granite, and then plaster where you've got hieroglyphics pot on the top, and you can actually see the plasters kind of bleeding off into the rose granite.
So it feels like they found it.
They slapped some hieroglyphs on it.
They, you know, put their own veneration around it, but it was not an original structure of the Egyptians.
Once again, a place that they found and settled around.
But it's just weird that in the Cairo Museum, you have like this tiny little shelf full of beakers and measuring jug type things, and it says that the lab complex of Saqqara.
It just doesn't make any sense in comparison to what they're trying to tell us is the reality of this place.
So that's, you know, that's weird.
joe rogan
It's all weird.
jay anderson
It's all weird.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's why the bottleneck of talking about this stuff is so infuriating.
jay anderson
This is the same place, by the way, we have the Serapium, you know, the 80-ton boxes that are precision marble top.
The ones that Christopher Dunn went down into and was like, these have been machined.
joe rogan
Yeah, pull up a photo of those, please.
They're strange.
It's like, what do you think they were doing with those things?
Like, what was the purpose?
jay anderson
Well, you know what's interesting is that they were.
So these things are absolutely incredible.
And there's a few questions with this.
One, if you go onto that image, zoom out, just go to that image on the right where you've got the entrance, just the entrance into the, yeah, this one here.
So this is, you know, this is the entrance into the Serapium or the Serapium, however you want to pronounce it.
It's a subterranean labyrinth, and these corridors are extremely small.
There's actually a half-finished, a half-finished one sitting in the middle of a corridor, and you can kind of really get a scope for the size.
But these are 70-ton, 70-to-80-ton granite sarcophagi.
They attribute it to the Apis bulls.
They say that there was a cult around this region that venerated the Apis Bulls, and that these were burial chambers for the Apis Bulls.
But you know, you know what's funny about that is the only thing that they have to evidence this is no bones of bulls or anything like that.
What they have is a single hieroglyph on one of these boxes of a bull.
That's it.
They have a hieroglyph with a bull on it, and that's why they attribute it to the apis bulls.
Regardless of the fact that these are precision-carved, 80-to-you know, 70 to 80-ton granite, marble-top-smoothed boxes with even more precision inside.
They're even more precise on the inside, which is strange.
You wouldn't necessarily need them to be that precise if they're just funerary boxes.
But the precision is actually more impressive internally than it is externally.
joe rogan
How long would it take to make one of those?
Mike, God question.
Make it, move it, put it in place.
That bull's long dead.
Let it go.
jay anderson
Let it go, dude.
joe rogan
It's not that by the time you finish that thing.
That's crazy.
jay anderson
These things are nuts, man.
Absolutely nuts.
And these is one of the big things that Christopher Dunn saw and was just like, nah, nah.
There's just no way.
joe rogan
Look at the people standing next to those stones.
jay anderson
I've been inside one of these.
joe rogan
But someone moved it there and then put that other one on top of it.
jay anderson
Unbelievable.
joe rogan
When?
Who?
How?
jay anderson
Yeah.
unidentified
And again, like, you know, to say that's not a mystery is nuts.
jay anderson
It is nuts.
And also, if you go on that image where they're shining a light and someone's leaning on it on like the right-hand side, yeah, that one.
So, so many of these, the boxes themselves are so precise, but the actual writing is extremely crude.
It's been scratched on.
It's basically just been scratched on.
And a lot of them, it kind of feels like, as a lot of these pharaohs did, they just went and slapped a cartouche on it.
I own this.
This is mine.
And so, you know, the exterior work contradicts the advancement of the actual box itself.
It doesn't make sense.
There's only one in here that's actually got 3D, actual carved-in artwork, and that one actually does make sense.
But these ones are all chicken scratch.
It's just been scratched on.
joe rogan
Of course.
So, which is what people do.
jay anderson
Which is what people do.
joe rogan
I mean, a lot of history of human beings doing that to ancient things.
jay anderson
Yeah, if you go on that third image, actually, that's an interesting image because you've got these such low quality, that's a shame.
But you can actually see these dimples where they've smoothed out the stone.
And what's weird about this is that, so if these were funerary boxes, you would expect the external to be the most impressive because that's what people are going to see, right?
But instead, you actually have a lot of malformation on the boxes.
And one of the theories about this, and this is something that there we go, it's a good example of this.
One of the theories about this is one that Jeffrey Drum brought up for me: is that whatever was going on inside of these cases, the exterior had to have absolutely zero critical imperfections.
So any cracks, anything that was problematic, would have been dissolved out, smoothed away.
And you have this weird kind of dimpling on a lot of these, and somewhere you can actually see a crack where the crack's been removed and it's been kind of smoothed out.
And then inside, it's like 90-degree just perfect.
And so it just kind of contradicts the idea of it being for the you know a funerary purpose.
You'd expect the outside to be absolutely perfect and beautiful, but it's not.
It's all kind of malshaped and as if they were trying to remove any sort of cracks, anything that could cause a structural problem.
And then inside they're perfect.
So it does make me wonder about the real purpose behind this.
joe rogan
Why are you assuming that it would be cracks?
Why wouldn't it just be that they didn't have a need to finish the top of it?
Because they're not finished carpentry.
jay anderson
Well, some of them are finished quite profoundly.
And then you have others that have got these big dimples in them where it just looks like they were trying to remove anything that might have been a critical damage to the structure.
Obviously, this is guesswork.
joe rogan
The purpose of that would be to keep it from cracking all the way.
jay anderson
To keep it from cracking all the way through.
I just find it very interesting that the inside is more impressive than the outside for something that's meant to be viewed as a funerary box for an enormous funerary box.
An enormous funerary box.
joe rogan
Does anybody have a wacky far-out theory of what they were actually for?
jay anderson
I mean, there's always some.
I mean, one of them that I find interesting is the idea that they could be like some form of a sound bath, like an isolatory chamber where they would go into and have like some form of experiences.
joe rogan
You got to count on someone to move that fucking thing?
jay anderson
Like, you know, there's such a strong evidential trail of acoustic sciences in the ancient past, especially archaeoacoustics in terms of the actual architecture itself, like the pyramids, they're designed to resonate.
Like one of the most, sorry, one of the most interesting places that I've been to in terms of looking at the acoustics of places as well is Malta, the island of Malta.
And the island of Malta is very interesting because when the Bronze Age settlers from Sicily and other areas of Italy came over to Malta for the first time, they discovered an island that was absolutely littered with megalithic sites.
And Malta has got the highest concentration of megalithic sites in the world, but there were no people.
They're all gone.
No one knows who they were.
It was just a land full of these incredible megalithic temples.
And one in particular called the Hypergeum of Halcephliani.
Now, the Hypergeum is fascinating, dude.
It's a subterranean, huge, huge temple that was discovered by road workers.
And they were literally just chipping away at the road and then it collapsed in.
And they find this huge, what they call a necropolis because they found hundreds of skeletons down here.
This thing is incredible.
This is all carved out of the limestone.
And it is an overlapping geometric series of chambers that is so obviously acoustically tuned that if you actually wanted to search hypergeum acoustics, it will come up with studies where they've noticed that this is absolutely a deliberately acoustically tuned complex.
Go on the actual website, not images.
That's an interesting one.
Whether or not it's entirely accurate, someone's comparing the hypergeum to the human ear.
Specifically, because of the fact that this place absolutely is acoustically tuned to resonate between 110 and 115 Hertz, which is the bandwidth to activate certain brain states like alpha and theta brain, where you can get into more meditative states of consciousness.
And only 20% of this site is accessible to the public, 70% of it's locked off, and they treat it like a skiff.
They take your phone, they take your camera, you can't bring any audio recording devices into it, nothing.
Very curated tour for like, you know, 30 minutes and then out.
joe rogan
Why is 70% of it locked off?
jay anderson
That's a great question.
They say it's for preservation of the site because it's such a delicate Neolithic.
It's prehistoric.
They believe it's prehistoric.
And again, this speaks to what was going on in prehistory because this is an acoustically profound series of chambers that have been carved out of the limestone bedrock by people that we attribute bone antler tools to.
They were chipping away at it with bone antler tools and they made something as profound.
So when you say prehistoric, they dated to, I think, about 5,000 years ago.
Yeah.
Mainstream.
Mainstream.
unidentified
What?
jay anderson
Mainstream.
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Carved.
jay anderson
Carved.
joe rogan
It's carved out of the bedrock.
jay anderson
Out of the bedrock.
Out of the bedrock.
It's huge, huge thing.
And what's even weirder about it is that they found all these elongated skulls at the bottom of it.
And one of, I've seen one personally.
I went to the Museum of Valletta in Malta and saw one of these elongated skulls.
What's very interesting about these skulls is that they actually lack the sagittal suture that we have going down the back of the head.
So, you know, we have this sagittal suture which pushes the growth plates together as you come through the birth canal.
Not that one.
The third one, sorry, the fourth one, that one.
And then there's other images which are actually the one below it where you've got skulls recovered from the hypergeum.
Yeah, so this is an elongated skull.
It's only got the horizontal suture, no vertical suture, which is what all humans have, a vertical sagittal suture.
Now, apparently, hundreds of elongated skulls were discovered in the hypergeum, but only a couple of them are on display in Valletta.
And I've got a couple of friends who are in.
Have you heard of the Knights of Malta?
joe rogan
No.
jay anderson
It's a kind of a secret order, a bit like Freemasonry.
It's spawned from the Vatican.
The Vatican basically threw these people into Malta and said, fuck off and go do your weird stuff over there.
But now it's a very connected, you know, kind of like with the Vatican order, the Knights of Malta.
Very powerful, a very powerful group.
Very much in the geopolitical world stage.
And a friend of mine who's within that was like, yeah, they bring out this book once a year in the Valletta Museum.
And it's detailing the skulls of the hypergeum and apparently tells a story of how the locals would throw bodies down there because there are beings down there that they wanted to prevent from coming up to the surface.
And this is the strange thing: the hypergeum is full of normal human bodies, hundreds, not buried with respect, but just piled down there.
And then also elongated skulls.
And the story is, according to this very ancient book that they bring out and put out once a year, you have to be lucky to catch it.
It apparently describes that they were using this as a place to discard bodies to prevent these creatures from coming up to the surface.
joe rogan
They were feeding them?
jay anderson
Feeding them.
Feeding them.
joe rogan
So when people would die, they would just throw them down that hole.
unidentified
Or when people were bad people, maybe, yeah, throw them down that hole to these elongated skull things were eating people.
jay anderson
Well, that's the connections we might make from that kind of connotation from these books.
But that's certainly something that is rolled out in the Valletta Museum once a year if you get to go there and see it.
joe rogan
Is that like an ancient version of Scientology?
Somebody make all this up?
jay anderson
I don't know but the well I mean in terms very strange that there's the hypergium itself is human skeletons down there Oh, yeah I mean, I did find a profound amount of them, which is why the mainstream labels it as a necropolis.
But there's no burial respect being done.
It was just piles of bodies, like piles of bodies, dude.
And again, it's just so profound.
jamie vernon
This is called the Oracle Room?
jay anderson
Yes, the Oracle Room.
This is where the sound concentrates.
jamie vernon
The acoustic description I found here.
These two paragraphs, I guess it's going to be a little long, but it's not that long.
joe rogan
During testing, a deep male voice tuned to these frequencies stimulated a resonance phenomenon throughout the hypogeum, creating bone-chilling effects.
It was reported that the sounds echoed for up to eight seconds.
Archaeologist Fernando Combria or Combra Coimbra said that he felt the sound crossing his body at high speed, leaving a sensation of relaxation.
When it was repeated, the sensation returned, and he also had the illusion that the sound was reflected from his body to the ancient red ochre paintings on the walls.
One can only imagine the experience in antiquity, standing in what must have been somewhat odorous, dark, and listening to ritual chant while low light flickered over the bones of one's departed loved ones.
Holy shit.
jay anderson
Yeah, dude.
Yeah.
joe rogan
So they made a drug house.
jamie vernon
He goes on to state, yeah, under right circumstances, ancient populations were able to obtain different states of consciousness without the use of drugs or chemical substances.
jay anderson
Or maybe in the middle of the Monroe Institute of Applied Sciences and binaural beats, way, way before we were around.
This is the original.
It's called psychoacoustic architecture.
The idea that ancient architecture is designed in a way to propagate acoustics that affect the human brain.
joe rogan
Now imagine this is 5,000 years ago.
And where did you move that from?
How did you do that?
Did you fail?
Did you learn?
What's the science?
jay anderson
And another interesting element is there are a lot of temple sites in Malta that look weirdly similar to Newgrange in Ireland.
And Newgrange is another psychoacoustic temple, if you want to call it a temple.
It's a huge mound, if you look it up.
But within it, they've done, again, acoustic studies, and it propagates infrasound, sound below the threshold of human hearing.
And that's the stuff that reverberates through your chest cavity, through your bone structure.
That's what that guy is describing.
It's infrasonic sound.
You know when you're like...
joe rogan
This is it?
jay anderson
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
How old's that?
jay anderson
Oh, God.
Again, Neolithic.
I don't know the exact date, but it's Neolithic.
And these spiral patterns are in the hypergeum.
Those spiral patterns are in the hypergeum in red ochre.
This is Ireland.
The same structure.
That's very famous Irish.
This, by the way, is incredible because it's completely singular.
There's no break in the line.
That's a very hard piece of geometry to actually create at the time as well.
It's extremely complex because all of this feeds into itself.
There's no break in that line.
It's a very complex geometry.
But that same type of geometry is also found in the hypergeum and it's found in red ochre on the painting, these swirling, these swirling kind of motifs.
So it's very interesting.
You have these weird correlations between places that were separated by entire oceans in Neolithic time.
joe rogan
Do you think they represent sound waves?
unidentified
Yes.
jay anderson
Yeah, I think it's about the flow of acoustics, the flow of movement and sound.
And that was perhaps their interpretation or perhaps they had a visual hallucination that gave them the idea of it being this kind of like swirling pattern.
But yeah, I find this.
Yeah, this is Ireland.
And there's just some striking similarities between places like this and places in Malta.
So again, it just leads into the idea that there was perhaps a globally maritime connected civilization that was using these psycho-acoustic attributions in sites to produce novel effects of consciousness, inducing brain hemisphere synchronization, just like they're trying to do in My Ass with the CIA.
joe rogan
And here's the real question.
How did they learn how to do that?
jay anderson
How did they learn how to do that?
joe rogan
And how long did it take before you figured out how to carve that out of a mountain?
jay anderson
Yeah, exactly.
You know, these are the questions that are absolutely not being answered by our understanding of history.
These are the, you know, the red ochre, the more rough ones are the ones in the hypergeum.
Incredibly old.
Also, also a very good male.
unidentified
Yeah, like it's not.
joe rogan
Other cultures have that as well, right?
Those spirals?
jay anderson
Yeah, yeah.
So that's what I mean.
So that right there is also in Newgrange, in Ireland, like pretty much the same.
It's just slightly different.
joe rogan
There's two places.
There's some other places.
jay anderson
The swirling motif is one of the oldest.
I mean, it is one of the oldest.
It's everywhere.
But the implication of it being about sound is very interesting when you find it represented in places that are absolutely acoustically tuned from prehistory.
unidentified
Weird.
Yeah, dude.
jay anderson
Like, you know, it's weird.
There's another one in Peru called Chavende Junta, which is a, there's a temple built above it.
This is another thing that you find.
I mean, this one in Malta, they haven't done this, but you do definitely seem to find layering, like Gunam Padang in Indonesia, where you have like the original structure below and people are just piling up on top of it over time.
So in Chavende Hunta in Peru, you have this amazing temple site, but below ground is a labyrinth of corridors that also propagate acoustics to the point where it brings up infrasound.
So below this is an infrasonic laboratory essentially of labyrinthian passages that we used for ritual acoustics.
And they actually found inside of this conch shells that had been purposefully re-engineered to produce a new harmonic when blown into them.
Like they had actually changed them into a different harmonic.
joe rogan
So they'd go in the acoustic chambers and below the conch shells.
jay anderson
And someone would obviously be walking through this, perhaps as a form of rite of passage.
joe rogan
Could you imagine going back in time?
jay anderson
I know, man.
I really want to see it.
joe rogan
Just being a fly on the wall.
jay anderson
I wish we could.
Yeah, so, you know, it's not incredibly profound stonemasonry, but it does produce infrasonic reverberation.
They have proven that and looked it up.
And yeah, the conch shells were found there that have got all of these designs on them and have been purposefully changed to produce a different sound.
So there is a clear lineage of acoustic science way before acoustic science was acoustic science, you know, at least to our terms.
So it brings up big questions.
And the fact that it was influencing consciousness, I think that we just had an incredibly intelligent but shamanically orientated society at one point.
You know, we were using our human ingenuity, but we were using it to create effects more spiritually aligned than anything else.
And, you know, these are all chambers for inducing expanded states of consciousness.
joe rogan
The real question, though, is what technology were they utilizing for the construction?
That's the real question, especially when you get to the megalithic stuff.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
What were they doing?
Like, what is this?
Because this is not what we're saying it is.
There's no way this is stone tools.
There's no way this is copper.
This is something nutty.
jay anderson
Well, that's why the nubs are interesting, because it almost seems like the stone was being softened.
And perhaps, like, you know, if you were pulling a spoon out of hot toffee, you'd get that pullback, right?
You'd get like a little kind of protrusion.
joe rogan
Wouldn't you want to smooth that down, though?
jay anderson
But they do, and then they don't.
That's what's really weird about it, especially in Peru.
Peru has so many stone nubs.
Like, there's a place in Peru called the Coricancha, which is like the kind of main temple in Cusco, the sun temple.
And, you know, these precision, there's various layers of architecture in Peru, albeit it's all being attributed to the Inca, which is weird.
Rough-cut stonework, then the weird megalithic kind of smushed together stones.
Then you have what's called ashla stonework, which is where it's like a bunker.
Look at the it's it's.
It's spelt with a q q o r I k a n c h, a Corricancha, um.
If you look it up like and and look in yeah, so you have to go inside it really to really get this um, the bunkers inside of it, these.
Look at the wall on the outside actually real quick before you do that.
Um, if you click on one of these images and just enlarge it um uh, the third, the first one's probably the best one yeah, so that's ashlar stonework.
That bottom bit, that is original.
This was built by the conquistadors right, the rest of it's been built up by the conquistadors from Spain, but this original stonework is also represented inside with these incredible bunkers.
So if you type in like bunker, it's got yeah like um, this image here, like I, the level of precision on these is is absolutely phenomenal.
I mean, we're talking just complete precise, fitting stones, not globular like saxia woman, like marshmallows, but just precise blocks like these bunkers here.
Yeah, like down here.
This is all original work.
And then they built a, you know, a Spanish Inspired temple over the top of it.
joe rogan
Um, so what you're asserting is that this was here first.
jay anderson
Yes yeah yeah this, this stuff, it was here first, like this stuff was absolutely here first and if you look up, there's an.
There's a little nub, little stone nub, right at the top there, and they but some of these walls have like 10 nubs on them, like one here, one here, one here, and then there's none.
So it's like they were smoothing out some of them, leaving others.
Some have speculated that it's a form of language, because in Peru, the Inca do you know what the Inca language was, their like written language?
It was called Quipu and it wasn't written.
It was pieces of string with knots on them in different colors.
That was, that was their historical language.
So it was literally like a line of different strings, different lengths, different colors, with little knots in them which corresponded to data, and most of this was lost by the Spanish conquistadors because they went over there and was like, burn this shit, burn this pagan nonsense.
Yeah, this is, this was their language.
Oh my, this was their language.
And it just made me wonder.
Obviously, this is a complete guess, but it just made me wonder.
If, like the stone nubs are stone Kipu, is it a stone version, with all these different nubs on different places and different areas?
Because it just feels like, especially in the Corricancha, which is a temple.
It's a regal temple.
Why would you leave the nubs on, like you said?
Why wouldn't they smooth these down?
So it's almost like it's it's meant to tell us something and they're left in very specific areas.
Then in Peru you get stone nubs protruding straight out of bedrock.
That's what weirds me out is that it's not just on the crafted stones but like a sheer rock face that's been obviously kind of quarried down by some unknown technique, without any chisel marks, just straight, and then you have like a group of nubs coming out of the stone.
So Peru is is just full of contradictory architecture.
And I think that you know you, the Spanish went over there and they saw places like Saxewamon and they attributed to the Inca.
You know they attributed to the ink.
The Inca the, the Andean shamans, say it's not the incandescent.
The Inca themselves to the Spanish Conquistador said, we found these places.
But we take the words of the Spanish conquistadors and we apply it to our knowledge set and we teach that and it's just like I was saying to you before, we're basing so much of our History off of like the word of people from like the 1800s, when clearly we're seeing contradictions of that, even in, as Graham Hancock would certainly say, the oral traditions of the local region.
The people are saying differently, but we're listening to the foreigners who went over there and destroyed things and burnt things and burnt the keeper and went back and taught us what their civilization is all about.
It doesn't make any sense.
joe rogan
Wow.
jay anderson
But yeah, Peru's fascinating, dude.
Peru is one of the most interesting places I've ever been.
joe rogan
Has it had the same level of discovery of not like Egypt?
No?
jay anderson
No, I mean, like, there are areas in Peru.
In fact, shout out to my friend Raul Belechi from Pillars of the Past.
He's a guy who's out there in Peru, literally just going out into the middle of nowhere.
He's found pyramid sites in the middle of nowhere that have absolutely zero recording, no excavation, no study, no name.
They don't exist in the record, but they're out there in the middle of nowhere in Peru.
And so like Peru has many.
He found a pretty impressive complex, actually.
He found a pretty impressive complex.
He's got videos of it, like drone footage.
joe rogan
It's like one of the places where you could actually still be a real explorer and find it.
jay anderson
Yeah, if you want to go off into the Andean mountains, like he's finding stuff in the Andes, high up in the mountains that nobody's documented.
Like nobody's seeing it.
He's a real, you know, real adventurer, but it just proves that, yeah, like you said, there are still places like this where you can do discovery.
That's yeah, yeah, yeah.
Peru's really.
And then obviously you have the Amazon rainforest and like, you know, all of the things that could be in there through LiDAR.
We're already seeing so much geometry, so much evidence that there was a massive amount of civilization going on in that jungle.
So, you know, this is getting very interesting to me.
And again, this weird climatological stability through the last glacial maximum to the younger dryest, this period of about 6,000 years where they had access to development without being disturbed.
So, you know, you have these incredible anti-seismic, anti-earthquake megalithic structures in Peru using materials that they shouldn't have been able to use, using multi-ton stones.
That's an interesting area, although I will say that it's made out of tough, which is volcanic rock, very easy to cut because it's actually compressed ash.
So that's a really cool place, but it's not as mind-blowing in terms of how they cut the rock because it's extremely soft rock.
joe rogan
So this is doable.
jay anderson
This is doable.
This is doable.
But there are other things.
In fact, if we could, could you go on my YouTube channel real quick?
There's an area in Saxawaman which has got a diorite outcrop, which is incredibly hard stone.
There's a measurement of hardness scale that goes up to 10 with diamond being the hardest and diorite sits at about 6.5 to 7 out of 10, whereas bronze sits at 3 to 3.5 out of 10.
So, you know, there's a discrepancy with the hardness of the material to start with.
But yes, there's, if you go back to the beginning, sorry, I wish I could see the screen.
It's going to be difficult, I think.
Keep it playing, though.
I'll talk about this and it will come up in a moment, I'm sure.
But all across Peru, you have these incredibly precise cuts into bedrock with very little evidence of any sort of chisel marks and no real understanding of how they were able to excavate it.
You know, these incredible just voids into the rock.
But there's one area in particular, this is just the beginning of my video, but there's one area in particular in Saxawaman, which is this gigantic.
In fact, you could probably just type it in if you typed in Saksawaman diorite steps or something like that.
jamie vernon
Saxawaman is not the easiest word.
jay anderson
I know.
S-A-Q-S-A-Q-S-A-Y Sac Say.
unidentified
Okay.
jay anderson
Waman.
W-A-M-A-N.
Yeah, Saxawaman, diorite steps.
Diorite spelt.
Sorry, mate.
unidentified
Dior warm.
jay anderson
Yeah, D-I-O-R-I-T-E.
Damn it.
It's all right, brother.
unidentified
But, I mean, I think we're actually getting it.
jamie vernon
I'm trying to listen while I'm typing.
unidentified
No, I know.
jay anderson
I'm sorry, dude.
But yeah, so yes, yes, that's the one.
So this is diorite.
This is incredibly hard stone.
To give some context, you know, the stones at Saxa Woman are extremely impressive, but they are made of limestone, a little bit softer, a bit more workable.
This is impossible.
If you can find a HD, I've got a 4K video of this.
That's why I wanted to see it in that video.
But if you can find a HD image, it's shined like a marble top.
Like, these are just precision cut into this huge outcrop of diorite, which they actually believe was a magma burst.
So a huge blob of magma came bursting out of the ground and formed into this huge stone mound that's adjacent to Saxa Woman.
And you've got cuts like this, where it's just insanely perfect.
And this is not possible with a Bronze Age toolkit.
This, to me, is actually more interesting in some ways than Saxa Woman itself because it's just a complete contradiction of the Bronze Age tools.
You shouldn't be able to do that on diorite.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's wild.
I mean, how long did that take?
jay anderson
And it's smoothed down to a point where it's like shiny.
joe rogan
Like, what did they do?
jay anderson
And what's the purpose of it?
Why?
unidentified
And there's all these weird involved something like that.
jay anderson
Yeah, there's all these weird little cuts into the stone like that.
And across Peru, you just find like, you know, these voids where it's just like a 90-degree cut into stone with perfect finish and no sign of chiseling.
joe rogan
And the weird thing is the back is smooth too.
jay anderson
And the back is also smooth.
joe rogan
How do you get it out of there?
jay anderson
Dude, this is the thing, man.
I just find that so fascinating.
This is what really clearly seems.
joe rogan
It seems like there's a lost technology.
unidentified
Yeah.
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
These ancient people had figured something out.
They probably existed for thousands of years.
They're probably really advanced, just in a different pipeline.
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
They went in a different highway.
jay anderson
I will say this, and I'm sure you'll be happy that I'm bringing him up.
There is one guy out there who's trying his best to prove how they were liquefying stone and then bringing it back.
And I only know his X handle, which is Fo Ma Hun, like F-O-M-A-H-U-N.
I can't remember his actual name, but I've been talking to him.
I'm thinking of actually going out to visit him and film him doing this.
But he's been demonstrating making teddy bear casts of rose granite and things like this.
And for a long time, he wasn't revealing how he was doing it.
So I kind of just was like, whatever, dude, like, I don't think that you're actually doing this.
But he's now actually revealed his secret ingredient, which is a slaked lime, like this slaked lime, which was very easy to make for them, and water glass, which again is something that they could have made.
I don't know the science behind this, to be fair.
So I'm just going to briefly say that I think he's got some provocative ideas here because he's actually adding like this water glass and slaked lime to like, you know, mixed up compounds of granite or limestone, like crushed up granite, crushed up limestone, adding the slate lime, adding the water glass, and then it's solidifying into solid granite like within six hours.
unidentified
What?
jay anderson
Yeah, and he's got like literal like teddy bear casts and like, you know, different like cookie cutter casts of solid granite.
And so there's a potential that it's really simple, but totally been overlooked.
You know, it's just using the right compounds, the right components, and the right stone mixture.
Again, how do they learn this?
But it's not definitive, but he's one of the only people I've seen that's actually presented actual evidence that could explain how they were doing this.
And it's with relatively simple ingredients.
joe rogan
That would account for some things.
jay anderson
Some text.
joe rogan
Yes, but nothing.
The enormous.
Okay, so this guy?
jay anderson
Yeah, so he's, I think so.
If you go up, make sure he's actually the right person.
Yes, yes, there we go.
Marcel.
joe rogan
Brilliant idea to create artificial granite with nothing as an additive to water glass, the latter being the glue between original granite grains.
Why?
Because I realize we need full transparency in order to clearly see the original granite grains like quartz.
We need a fake quartz as a binder.
Well, nothing did not work because the outside layer prevented the thing to get hard inside.
Oh, well, nothing did not work, I guess.
I don't know how he's saying that.
Now, what we're seeing is made with a secret additive, let's call it almost nothing, that did not change the transparency of the water glass, but forced it to set from the inside.
So, remember, this is the wannabe binder only of artificial granite, not granite itself.
jay anderson
It's very interesting, and he's revealed that it's slaked lime, this secret ingredient.
For a while, he wasn't saying what it is.
Now he said it's slate lime.
So, I'm actually going to go out to, he lives in Budapest.
I'm going to go out to Budapest and actually film him doing this to see if he's right about this.
He's actually, I think, one of the originators of the whole Natron theory, which I haven't dived too deep into, but it's one of the explanations behind melting the stone.
So, I started paying more attention to him once I was in Peru, and he was messaging me saying, you know, this is what I think is going on here, is they were using these ingredients to melt the stone, well, to solidify crushed up stone and create molds.
My issue.
Yeah, one issue I do.
joe rogan
I'm going to crush up the stones.
That seems like it'd be harder than moving.
jay anderson
Maybe using harder rocks, like, you know, just like smash, smash.
Yeah, exactly.
You'd need to, I mean, how much stone smashing would you need to do to create Saxawama and all these areas?
joe rogan
80 tons of smash.
jay anderson
Plus, plus, every single block is different.
You'd be talking about millions of molds.
Like, if we're talking about molds here, then every single block is completely different.
So you'd need an individual mold for each one.
So, yeah, compelling idea.
Does it answer it?
No.
Nothing ever seems to fully answer it.
But it's compelling that he's trying to actually find a way to solidify the stone, and it seems to be working.
Whether it explains all of it, I don't know, but there's certainly a lot of people that will say that this is the definitive explanation behind it.
I don't think that.
joe rogan
The thing that these amazing sites have in common is that they are so spectacular, no one really has a logical explanation.
It's one of the coolest things about the most ancient of sites is that it forces you to go, wait, wait, wait, wait, even the best people don't defies probability.
unidentified
Yeah.
jay anderson
It defies probability.
It's truly, truly fascinating, man.
unidentified
It was a national project.
joe rogan
So simple.
I get it now.
jay anderson
Yeah, I know, man.
Like, this is the thing is, like, notice outdated kind of dismissal of everyone on the outside of the academic.
Yeah, gatekeeping.
You know, he wants to say he's not a gatekeeper.
He clearly is.
joe rogan
It's not yours, buddy.
jay anderson
Did you know he came through the Edgar Casey Foundation?
joe rogan
Wonderful.
jay anderson
He did.
Zahi Awas originated in the Edgar Casey Foundation.
So he got funded.
And weirdly enough, he was actually quite pro these ideas until about the mid-90s.
There's like a 1993 quote from him at a university in Cairo where he was saying something along the lines of there are tunnels underneath the Sphinx that lead down into greater structures.
And when we truly understand this, we will understand the real builders of the pyramids.
That was the last time he said anything close to that.
Post-1993, about 1993, maybe 96.
But after that, complete polar opposite, 90-degree change.
unidentified
I wonder what happened to Zahi.
joe rogan
Who knows?
I don't understand why.
If you really want that place to get more money, more tourism, more people interested in it.
I mean, just be open to all of these people that are like yourself and like Graham Hancock.
Why wouldn't you not be open to these people and their ideas?
Like, they're clearly very well-versed.
Like Ben Van Kirkwick?
jay anderson
Oh, yeah, he's brilliant.
joe rogan
He's incredible.
jay anderson
Fantastic guy.
joe rogan
He's an encyclopedia of information about Egypt.
And why would you not want that guy exploring publicly and also reaching millions of people, by the way?
jay anderson
Yes.
joe rogan
Why wouldn't you want that?
It doesn't make any sense.
jay anderson
I think there's maybe a bit of a cultural arrogance.
Like, who do you think you are, Westerner, coming over here and teaching us about our history?
I think there's a level of that, like, you know, at least on a surface layer, before you get into the deeper implications of, you know, Freemason secret societies keeping things from us.
joe rogan
My true fear is that it's people just have this desire to be the one in charge of stuff.
jay anderson
Right.
And the desire to be right.
joe rogan
They want to be the correct.
They want to be blocked.
They never want to be proven wrong.
jay anderson
And who's this guy?
Who's this podcaster who's coming on and telling me what my country's heritage is?
And I, you know, I think.
joe rogan
But the problem with that is like even mainstream archaeologists are angry about it.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Like, right.
jay anderson
Well, everyone gangs together.
You know, they all gang to get this groupthink.
joe rogan
Well, it's also a lot.
There's a lot of bitches in archaeology.
unidentified
Yeah.
jay anderson
I've noticed that.
joe rogan
Bitchy people.
jay anderson
I've noticed that.
joe rogan
It's such a bad look for the profession.
It really is.
Because immature, like snarky, shitty comments.
jay anderson
Yeah, I know.
joe rogan
Aspersions of racism.
Shut up.
It's a really gross field in terms of some of the humans are out of it.
jay anderson
I came through the toxicity of the UFO community, which is like so bad.
And, you know, I thought it would be.
Yeah, a lot of kooks, but also just a lot of bad actors and hackers and people that want to, you know, one thing on the UFO subject, actually, which I do think is worth noting, because like I said to you, I think I'm one of the first people that you've had on that had to actually make their way through the social media interactions.
And one of the things that a lot of us noticed, and I have to give credit to a couple of people like Red Panda Koala and Tupa Cabra on Twitter, two very good researchers that have been highlighting this, is that when the whole kind of 2017 narrative and Lou Elizondo and Chris Mellon and all these guys started coming out, obviously we were all extremely excited about it.
Over time, you know, there were some issues, like some contradictions.
Lou Elizondo especially has contradicted himself quite a lot.
And some of us started to get a little bit suspicious of these people and just started asking questions.
It didn't take long for us to be targeted by a pretty significant network online of people that were trying to hack and dox us.
And people like, he doesn't put his actual name out there, but people like Red Panda Koala was doxxed online, had his family house put out online, photos of his underage sister put out online by a group of individuals who are all very closely connected to Lou Elizondo.
And this is something that you would not notice outside of being in the minutiae of X, because you would see these troll accounts, these really nasty troll accounts that were all being followed by Lou.
And when they were having their accounts shut down and reinstated, Lou was one of the first people following them.
Some people have actually come out about this group now and revealed screenshots of DMs where they're in private conversations with people like Lou and Gary and some of these other guys who I got connected to early on, very early on.
I got some of the first interviews with these people and was very pro-it until I started realizing that they were very much trying to control the narrative and there were things you couldn't speak about.
Can't talk about reverse engineering or consciousness initiated contact.
Anything to do with Greer is completely poisonous.
Lou Elizondo was actually, he called Greer and a couple of other people terrorists.
He said I wouldn't negotiate with terrorists when asked about Stephen Greer.
But what people have dubbed this as is the UFO hate group.
This is very well known online, the UFO hate group.
And it's a group of people that are so savagely in favor of people like Lou and this kind of modernized narrative that if you even go half an inch, like I really gained my accolades in the UFO community.
People, you know, really praising me for the interviews I was getting until I started asking a few questions about people like Lou.
And suddenly I get an absolute maelstrom of hatred from people that were once really enjoying my content.
And I'm quite lucky.
I haven't been targeted so heavily.
Some people have had their lives ruined by these people who are all connected to individuals like Lou.
And Lou actually said that he came to burn UFOG to the ground.
Like he actually said that in an article.
He was like, I want to burn UFOG.
I want to destroy it.
joe rogan
When did he say that?
jay anderson
Oh, it was like in a few years back now.
You can get it.
joe rogan
Why did he say it?
What was the context?
jay anderson
I think it was just about the way in which the UFO community has been misrepresenting the phenomena and the confusing spaghetti junction of narratives.
And he just kind of, I want to put a hard reset.
joe rogan
Doesn't that kind of actually make sense to say?
jay anderson
Does he know things?
joe rogan
You don't think he knows things?
jay anderson
What does he know?
joe rogan
I don't know.
jay anderson
Exactly.
unidentified
Right?
jay anderson
They all know something, but none of them can tell us.
And they all knew it from someone else.
And someone else told them and they knew it.
And they know this.
And like, dude, I was so in love with all of this.
You have to understand that I was truly, I was a believer.
I was like, this is amazing.
I had my orb experiences.
So I had a bias already.
I was like, I'm ready to believe in whatever you're saying.
It took me a while to start actually realizing that this is not going in a direction I think it should be going and that there's a heavily curated narrative.
And if you try and question the narrative, you will be punished by groupthink.
It felt like, honestly, I started to feel like I was in a COVID cult for UFology, where you just can't talk about Louis Lazondo in a bad light, regardless of the fact that this man has gone on stage and presented literal fake UFO photos to the public, which have been debunked in less than 24 hours.
And he had to admit that they were fake because of the debunks.
But people are just happy to forget these things happened.
Like he went up in a congressional setting and held up a UFO photo that was proven to just be fields, like agricultural fields.
Yes, this is a fake.
That's not a shadow.
That's a darker field next to the lighter field.
These are two circles.
And this was proven.
He had to admit it.
He had to.
This is in a congressional setting.
This man apparently ran the advanced aerospace threat identification program.
Aqual bullshit.
I don't believe he did because he seems like more of a government stooge.
And he feels like someone that would be sent out to do what he admits he was doing, counterintelligence.
He's a counterintelligence, counter-terrorism, counter-espionage guy.
I'm not a UFO guy.
I'm a counter-terrorism, counter-espionage guy.
joe rogan
He's also one of the guys calling for amnesty, right?
jay anderson
Oh, how surprising.
Yeah, exactly.
Calling me shocked.
Yeah, no, he is.
Like, you know, calling me shocked.
joe rogan
Does he say that in the because a lot of them do say it?
I want to make sure that he actually said that.
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
In the age of disclosure.
jay anderson
I'll be perfectly honest with you, Joe.
I haven't even fucking watched it because I'm just not interested in that element of the UFO subject anymore.
I've been burned by these guys.
I've had Gary Nolan emailing me, like, why aren't you on the team anymore?
Why don't you be a team player?
It's like, because you're literally telling me that I can't tell my own fucking truth.
You're censoring me and saying that I'm not being a team player just because I have to.
joe rogan
What are we censoring you about?
What in particular?
Well, I was attempting to get you to stop talking about specifically.
jay anderson
Primarily, there seems to have been a bit of an issue with the way that I've been talking about Lou and his association with ATIP, because I think that ATIP was actually a cutout.
It wasn't a real program, and it was a cutout that was actually created for To the Stars Academy.
And ORSAP, which was more of a kind of precursor program, wasn't being run by Lou Olazondo.
That's the Advanced Weapon Application Space Program.
I forgot the actual acronym now.
ORSAP.
ATIP is meant to be Lou's.
And I just think that I have to be careful, but a very prominent journalist in the UFO community literally told me that Lou told him that this was all created for To the Stars Academy as like a way to generate an understandable structure.
Here's this guy.
He's running ATIP.
I have an issue with the idea that someone like Lou Alizondo can go to the New York Times and say that the Secretary of Defense wasn't being briefed on UFOs.
And I'm the one that was running a program when people like Julian Assange and Edward Snowden are being thrown to the wolves for just revealing standard national security issues.
This is meant to be even deeper, right?
This is a black, black budget.
This guy can just roll out to the New York Times.
Seems a little bit planned, seems a little bit curated and forced.
So I started asking those questions, and especially when things like this were happening, where there were discrepancies, where he's bringing up images that are being debunked.
I was like, who is this guy?
You know, who is this guy, really?
And then his book comes out, and he's talking about being the torture czar in Guantanamo Bay.
And, you know, that the people there called him the Darth Vader of the United States.
This is in his book.
You know, that he admitted they called him the Torture Czar of Guantanamo Bay because you know he ran Camp Platinum at Guantanamo Bay black site, CIA black site.
joe rogan
Whoa.
jay anderson
Yeah.
So, you know, he actually had in his book that he was known as the Darth Vader of the United States by certain people and the torture czar of Guantanamo Bay.
I don't really trust people like this who, you know, waterboarded people for a living and are now trying to tell me what's going on in the UFO subject.
joe rogan
Well, let's ask this question.
What purpose would there be to muddy the narrative if you wanted to have a government agent come out and have what you're claiming is like a fake disclosure, like a government narrated disclosure?
What would be the purpose of that?
jay anderson
What are they all asking for, Joe?
joe rogan
Money?
jay anderson
Amnesty.
And what was happening before that is you had someone like Stephen Greer just saying, these people need to go to jail.
And that was the only big voice in the UFO community processing.
joe rogan
Maybe they're offering a window to possible disclosure, though.
jay anderson
Maybe.
joe rogan
If we give them this fucking amnesty, if we don't, what happens?
Nothing.
It keeps going the same way it's been going.
There's no actual disclosure.
We keep talking about it.
It gets nuts.
It gets to the point where it's driving you crazy.
Like, I don't even want to hear about any fucking UFOs until you show me one.
But if it's a real subject, and the only thing that's keeping us from learning this real subject is that.
And so they're trying to push out this narrative of amnesty.
I'll bite.
What are we talking about?
jay anderson
I think for me, again, coming up through it and just seeing how these people actually act when you challenge them and the fact that there were absolutely organized groups of, quite frankly, quite mentally unstable people that were very easily misled into believing they're important, who are getting brought into these signal chats, these private group chats.
And, you know, I'm in touch with Lou Lizondo.
I'm one of those guys.
I'm being brought in.
And, you know, they tried to use it.
Useful, useful idiot.
And like, there's a lot of them.
And, you know, there's a few people out there that are extremely dark individuals.
Like, we're talking like, you know, connected to all sorts of weird Satanism groups.
And Lou's just there of selfies, like hanging out with these guys.
Like, he's a dodgy dude.
I don't care.
He's like, you know, I'm freaked out even saying this on the Joe Rogan.
He's like, he's going to remote view my brain or something.
But at the same time, he is a dodgy guy.
He's shady.
joe rogan
But you do believe in the existence of these things.
jay anderson
Dude, I've had orbs hover over my house.
Yeah.
joe rogan
What do you think is that there is a clear decision somewhere in our government to muddy the water and to put out this narrative that these whistleblowers are trying to tell everybody.
So to slowly trickle this stuff out there and then float out amnesty, which is a big part of the age disclosure documentary for really the first time.
jay anderson
Exactly.
joe rogan
Have you ever heard anybody where everyone uniformly talks about that one particular subject?
jay anderson
Yeah, like I think that that's the goal is to create a curated soft disclosure that does the very best to paint the government in the best possible light and allows them to actually kind of not face too much punishment for what's been going on in the legacy programs.
Again, if you only had someone like Stephen Greer out there, he was offering a completely different thing.
We need to punish these people.
They are criminals.
They've ruined humanity for 100 years of stagnating technological progress.
joe rogan
He's a little testy.
Got a little testy with that.
Should have taken a little softer tone.
Sorry.
You know what I'm saying?
With him.
Oh, maybe if he did that, maybe they would have to be so defensive.
Like, fuck, they want to lock us up.
jay anderson
Yeah, but that's it.
That's why.
joe rogan
As soon as you say you're going to lock someone up for what they did, they're going to say, I didn't do anything.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And they're going to keep saying that.
jay anderson
But that's why they got rid of him.
That's why they got rid of him.
That's why Gary Nolan, who was originally with Greer, then changed over to Two Stars Academy and they poached quite a few people from his team and brought him over to TTSA and he became a pariah.
You know, again, he says a lot of things that, quite frankly, I don't agree with.
But I just think that basically they tried to overtake the narrative and they needed government representatives to run this.
And just again, that's how they do everything.
joe rogan
Why would we be shocked that they do it about something this important?
unidentified
Well, exactly.
joe rogan
Especially if there is lying to Congress, misappropriation of funds, and for sure some fraud.
For sure.
You're talking about a shit ton of money.
jay anderson
One thing that does interest me, though, is the ARV, the alien reproduction vehicle, the Flux Liner.
Have you heard of this?
You know about Mark McCandlish and the alien reproduction vehicle?
Oh, well, that's something you should have.
If you type in ARV Fluxliner, you'll get this image right away.
This is one of the avenues that I would actually pay attention to and think, okay, I think something's going on here.
Mark McCandlish was an aerospace illustrator for the US Air Force.
That's the yeah.
So the actual.
joe rogan
Oh, I have seen this.
jay anderson
Yeah, of course you have.
It's very classic.
And that one that's blue with the writing all over it, that's what was held up at the 2001 national press conference organized by Dr. Stephen Greer.
Again, like, you know, this isn't new.
Like, to be fair, to Dr. Greer, he brought like over 50 witnesses on live television during the national press conference.
And one of them was Mark McCandlish, military illustrator, who drew this sketch.
joe rogan
A friend of mine has a version of this framed in his house.
jay anderson
So do I.
joe rogan
I need to get one.
We need to get one for the students.
jay anderson
You can literally get one on Etsy for like $100.
joe rogan
It's like fucking go ahead.
jay anderson
It's a big one on Etsy.
But so this is important.
Mark McCandlish, he actually ended up taking his own life.
joe rogan
Go back to that again?
I want to read the heading.
It says, according to this documentary, we had the technology for faster than light travel and zero-point energy for a very long time.
Let's pretend this is true.
How do we know the UAPs we sent aren't ours and more modern buildings?
jay anderson
The person who made this documentary died of an aggressive form of cancer not long after making it.
He was quite a young man as well, documentary filmmaker who made this.
But Mark McCandlish, military illustrator, he had a friend called Brad Sorensen.
Now, Brad Sorensen was a government guy, aerospace engineer.
Lockheed Martin had quite an extensive portfolio.
And Brad Sorensen goes to his buddy one day, Mark McCandlish, and he says, I was shown something, and I want you to draw it.
I'm going to describe it to you in great detail, and I want you to create the illustration.
Brad Sorensen says that I think it was in like the 70s or late 60s or early 70s that he was invited to a private air show at Lockheed Martin by an individual who was a good friend of his in the military who was higher up than him.
And apparently this, you know, he didn't have what they call the tickets, the right classifications to actually get access to this private air show, but his friend brought him because he had the tickets.
And essentially, they bring him into a hangar in Lockheed Martin where three large sources of varying size were hovering a few feet off of the ground.
They were described as instantaneous nuclear payload delivery systems.
That's the way that they were actually classifying them, had a nickname for a mummy.
Instantaneous nuclear payload delivery systems.
Like the idea that you could just instantaneously deliver a nuclear payload to anywhere in the world.
joe rogan
Oh my God.
jay anderson
Yeah.
Which is again one of the reasons why they might keep this stuff secret.
The ships were nicknamed Mama Bear, Baby Bear, and Papa Bear.
joe rogan
Oh my God.
jay anderson
Yeah.
What's really interesting about this is that Brad Sorensen has never gone public.
But I was in the room when he was phoned.
And I've heard him say things that have never been on the record before.
No one's ever contacted Brad Sorensen.
Mark McCandlish took his own life a number of years ago.
His closest friends would say that that was not anything untoward.
It's hard to know.
I didn't know the man.
All I know is this is the man that produced an incredibly profound illustration and then eventually took his own life.
But his friend Brad Sorensen has never gone public, ever.
Never.
I've got quite a few contacts now because of my research and affiliations that I've managed to gain with people in like the US Navy and Intel.
And a good friend of mine who was able to actually find his number and get in touch with Brad Sorensen.
I was present when he was phoned.
And, you know, my friend introduces himself to him and he'd never spoken to him before.
And they were just talking shop, first of all.
He said that he wanted to reach out to him because he'd heard about him through various stories online.
But, you know, anyway, to cut the long story short, he asked him, my friend asked him about Mark McCandlish and this alien reproduction vehicle.
And Brad Sorensen went off on quite a diatribe, actually, very angry about Mark and how he said that I gave this man the keys to the kingdom and he went out and told the whole fucking world.
And I will never do that because my employers will fry me.
He said they will fucking fry me if I speak out about this.
But I am capable of building and designing an aircraft that can go 210 times the speed of light.
Yeah, he reiterated that multiple times.
joe rogan
What?
jay anderson
Yeah, I am.
joe rogan
What year was this?
jay anderson
I've sat on this for a couple of years.
It's about two years ago that my friend phoned him.
Yeah, I was instantaneous.
joe rogan
Nuclear payload delivery.
jay anderson
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you can imagine that's how the national security system would actually look at this.
Not as an exploratory vessel, but let's be honest.
What is this?
It's a payload delivery system that's instantaneous.
Let's be honest.
That's what they would look at it as, right?
Another reason to keep it secret, probably.
But that was, you know, I would love to get him on record.
I don't know if you ever will, Brad.
If you're listening to this, I would like to get you on record.
But he, yeah, he said that.
He said that he can design a craft that goes 210 times the speed of light.
And this is the guy that gave Mark McCandlish the illustrations to create that ARV.
unidentified
So it's weird.
jay anderson
I mean, it's weird, dude.
joe rogan
This is the real question.
What would civilization be like had this stuff not been kept secret?
Right.
If we had access to that kind of energy, whatever that thing is operating on.
Could you imagine if you had access to that energy and you're watching all these idiots burn coal?
jay anderson
No.
joe rogan
What are you doing?
jay anderson
What are you doing?
joe rogan
But you can't say anything.
jay anderson
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because you have an instantaneous delivery system.
jay anderson
I'd hate to be these people.
I'd hate to be these people.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
jay anderson
Imagine sitting there knowing that we have access to these kind of technologies.
joe rogan
There's also like this desire to tell people something that's really important to humanity.
They can't all be complete sociopaths.
jay anderson
Yeah, maybe they do.
Like they screen them for that reason.
unidentified
You know what I mean?
jay anderson
Like they have to be a certain personality type.
They don't give a fuck about humanity.
joe rogan
I think, honestly, I think at the highest levels of these, especially these military corporations, I think you just have to become that anyway.
jay anderson
Yeah, by force of nature.
joe rogan
Yeah, like, well, we're going to kill 100,000 people today.
jay anderson
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, how emotionally attached can you possibly be in that big task-oriented position?
So, you know, the AR-V is a provocative one for me.
And to be honest, man, I think a lot of this, I mean, it's called the AR-V, the alien reproduction vehicle.
And maybe we have had alien crashed vehicles, but I'm more tempted to believe that Nikola Tesla's work was taken by the US government.
John G. Trump, Trump's uncle from MIT, was the one that actually oversaw all of that.
You know that?
joe rogan
Yeah.
jay anderson
Yeah, he actually looked at all that.
You know, we found a correspondence between Nikola Tesla and British and Russian royalty, like the high top levels of Britain and Russian royalty, about them acquiring a super weapon of incredible power.
There's a video, I actually posted it on X, of John G. Trump, a vintage video of him talking about coming across these correspondent letters that he never found the true method of the secret weapon or what it was, but there was correspondence between the king and Russian czars.
about acquiring it from Nikola Tesla.
So I think that they took things from Tesla, his electromagnetism studies, I think people like T. Townsend Brown, you know, these original ideas of being able to use field induction to create positive lift.
This is something that was being looked at by humans.
You don't need to invoke flying sources crashing from Alpha Centauri for that.
Maybe it happened, but I would be more on the line that we've done it ourselves.
We've done it ourselves.
Yeah, some of it.
The Cold War happened, Cold War paranoia, and we've never got rid of it.
All the iron walls came up around that.
And it's a case of how do we kind of get rid of all this legacy program, you know, stoving and stovepiping because of Cold War paranoia.
It's too late now because we're in 2025 and you've got to try and tell us that you've got zero point energy.
You know, we've been flying around in fucking Wright Brothers planes for 100 years and shit.
Like, are you kidding me?
Like, it's not going to go down well.
So amnesty, right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
jay anderson
Amnesty.
joe rogan
Fuck, it might be the only way.
jay anderson
It might be the only way.
And if it is the only way, that's fine.
But like I said, I do have...
joe rogan
It sucks that they're not going to get punished for crimes, but so what?
jay anderson
So what?
joe rogan
At least we are not being punished by being withheld.
jay anderson
Exactly.
joe rogan
Information being withheld that I think would change the course of humanity in probably a fantastic way.
jay anderson
But I do feel, I feel like the world would have to become a more heavily controlled place for these types of technologies to come out.
Do you know what I mean?
joe rogan
I was trying to wrap this up on a high note.
Digital ID coming up.
jay anderson
Well, that's all I'm saying.
Like, you know, the control structures around something like free energy would have to be quite profound because of the things we were saying about some psycho with a ZPE device.
Exactly.
joe rogan
Like, look at what just happened in Bondi Beach in Australia.
Imagine if you have access to that, if everybody has access to that, especially off the internet, you figure out how to design one.
It's not that hard.
jay anderson
The world will have to become a more restrictive place for these things to come out for public benefit.
joe rogan
Now people are going to think you're a Fed for saying that.
Listen, man, I really enjoyed this conversation.
It was a lot of fun.
jay anderson
It's been really cool.
joe rogan
And your content is excellent.
jay anderson
Thank you so much.
joe rogan
So please tell everybody how they can watch more of your stuff.
jay anderson
Yeah, I've got a terrible business acumen.
So I just have two channels, Project Unity on YouTube and The Project Unity on X.
And if you want to follow me and subscribe, I think that's a good model.
joe rogan
It's quality stuff and it's building a following just literally based on being good.
jay anderson
For real.
joe rogan
So thank you, brothers.
jay anderson
Appreciate it so much, Dave.
joe rogan
All right.
We'll do it again.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Goodbye, everybody.
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