Sept. 11, 2025 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:51:30
Participants
| 
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
|
Joe Rogan podcast. | |
| Check it out. | ||
| The Joe Rogan experience. | ||
| Train by day, Joe Rogan. | ||
| Podcast by night. | ||
| All day. | ||
| Great to finally meet you, man. | ||
| It's great to meet you. | ||
| It's a trip. | ||
| And, you know, walking in, and I'm thinking, how is it possible that our paths didn't cross all those years? | ||
| I mean, it's conceivable we were in the same venue or the same building or at the same party or something. | ||
| I kind of avoided parties. | ||
| I avoid basically everything. | ||
| I avoided parties. | ||
| I avoided premieres, anything where there's a red carpet. | ||
| Like even if I was in a movie, I wouldn't go on the red carpet. | ||
| I'd go in through the back door. | ||
| Seriously? | ||
| Yeah, I don't like it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| I don't like all that fucking look over here, look over here. | ||
| That is just too fake for me. | ||
| It just, whatever allergy I have to that flares, and I'm like, I'm going in through the back door. | ||
| Fuck this. | ||
| Yeah, no, I don't blame you. | ||
| I don't blame you. | ||
| They stopped showing me where the back door was because I support a similar entrance thing. | ||
| It's just too weird. | ||
| But it's that, it's look over here, look over here. | ||
| It's that thing. | ||
| Something happens in that moment. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I think it's like it brings you as close to possibly sterilization as you can get without surgery. | ||
| I think it's bad for you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think it's like radiation. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Like you could take a little bit of it, but you don't want to be working the x-ray machine your whole life. | ||
| No, no. | ||
| And then there's always that one lady who keeps calling you back to her. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Charlie, Charlie. | |
| Charlie, right. | ||
| Far left, far left, far left. | ||
| And you've looked at her like seven times already. | ||
| And then I'm out there thinking, if it took me this many takes to get a scene right, nobody would ever hire me. | ||
| You wouldn't get past the first day. | ||
| Well, they want to get a million pictures just to get that perfect one with just a little bit of side eye to you, just a little something. | ||
| Right. | ||
| A little purse of the lips. | ||
| A little something. | ||
| That's the one that kind of responding to something. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That's the one. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But then they chew, which one do they always choose? | ||
| The one that's absolute dog shit. | ||
| Yeah, the one with your mouth open. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Or your eyes closed. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What I really don't like is the people who like it. | ||
| Not that I don't like them, is that I don't want to ever see that in myself. | ||
| And so when I'd be around them, I would just go, oh, I got to get out of here. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Freaking out. | ||
| The trappings. | ||
| The trailings. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, is there, because it feels like that system's been in place for over 100 years, right? | ||
| Is there another, is there another way to do it? | ||
| Probably not. | ||
| No. | ||
| People like it. | ||
| You know, photographers like it. | ||
| The press likes it. | ||
| It's a big thing. | ||
| There's a lot of people. | ||
| There's a lot of lights flashing. | ||
| It seems legit. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I just, I don't, I can never feel relaxed when everybody's yelling. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, it's just totally unnatural. | ||
| It's completely unnatural. | ||
| The only way that would be happening in real life is if like you were on trial. | ||
| You know, like you were being paraded in front of a bunch of people. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Jim, there he is. | |
| Look over here. | ||
| You know, it's odd. | ||
| It's very odd. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's almost, it's a form of a perp walk, isn't it? | ||
| A little bit of a perp walk and just a little bit of a mental illness exhibition. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I just had it for the first time like last, it would have been last Thursday. | ||
| The first time ever? | ||
| No, for the first time in like in like maybe over a decade at the Netflix premiere for the best. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it was, it was kind of cool, like the first, you know, 34 seconds. | ||
| I was like, okay, I remember this. | ||
| And then it was like, yeah, I fucking remember this. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Damn. | ||
| And then I like I'm in the right of the sun just beating right on my floor. | ||
| And it's just, I can feel myself start to sweat. | ||
| Now I'm questioning the whole outfit. | ||
| You know, the underwear choice. | ||
| All of it. | ||
| It's just like every decision I made leading up to that was completely wrong. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's all being documented, you know. | ||
| It's so odd. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What's really funny at the when I'm when you first walked into the studio, you brought up a tweet that I had sent in 2011. | ||
| I think this is when you were going crazy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I think this is also when my friend Russell Peters was doing those tours with you. | ||
| Oh, that's right. | ||
| It said, I need to get Charlie Sheen on my podcast. | ||
| I know it's a long shot. | ||
| But a boy can dream. | ||
| If anybody knows him, help me hook it up. | ||
| Well, here we are 14 years later. | ||
| You know, it takes what it takes, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's funny because back then, I don't think I had no guests. | ||
| I think I had Anthony Bourdain was the only like real guest that I had had at that time. | ||
| Yeah, he was 2011 as well. | ||
| And how many shows had you done by then? | ||
| Not that many by then. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| So were you just doing solo shows, just like covering topics? | ||
| I was doing it mostly with my friends, mostly with other comics. | ||
| We just sit and talk shit and then eventually Yeah, I was in my house back then. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So it looked nothing like this. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| It slowly had to get out. | ||
| It's like, I had too many weirdos that I had to bring by my house. | ||
| And I have young kids at the time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
They were really young. | |
| I was like, this is just too strange. | ||
| Bring these weirdos to your house. | ||
| And, you know, it was just too odd. | ||
| I was like, maybe some people shouldn't know exactly where I sleep. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's interesting because driving here, I was buried in my phone just, you know, for the right reasons. | ||
| So I have no idea where we are. | ||
| Good. | ||
| So it was kind of like a version of being blindfolded with a sack over my head, you know? | ||
| Yeah, that's probably how we should do it. | ||
| Can you imagine then, like, I'm the guy they're blaming for introducing this? | ||
| Just put everybody in a blindfold and put them in the back of an SUV and drive them to an undisclosed location. | ||
| And make the guy drive a few circles around in like some neighborhood right over there. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But we did it. | ||
| We're here. | ||
| Those things that you did with Russell Peters were so fascinating. | ||
| It was the whole thing was so fascinating. | ||
| I watched the Netflix thing. | ||
| I watched the first episode. | ||
| And the whole experience of watching the guy from Platoon, the guy that everybody knows is like this gigantic, super cool movie star, hot shots, all these different things, to watch you just not just go off the rails with drugs, but like be super open about it. | ||
| You were like the first guy, super open about it, you know, and everybody just embraced it. | ||
| Instead of it being like, oh, Charlie Sheen's doing drugs, that's so sad. | ||
| It was like, we love him. | ||
| Keep going. | ||
| It was kind of crazy. | ||
| All the tiger blood stuff and winning. | ||
| Everybody was saying winning all the time. | ||
| What was that like for you? | ||
| Was that like, was it the worst kind of reinforcement? | ||
| Or did it let you like, were you surprised by it? | ||
| That's a great way to describe it. | ||
| It is, yeah, the worst kind of reinforcement. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It was like unintentionally or otherwise celebrating a guy's demise. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, and I guess the train wreck was so spectacular that there was such a spectacle that they couldn't turn away. | ||
| But they were also being invited in to follow it down the tracks. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You know, and then somebody asked me about it. | ||
| And I don't know if I was the conductor, if I was riding a caboose or both simultaneously. | ||
| It was a trip because thinking back on it, it's, you know, some of it just kind of exists in just Polaroid snapshots that kind of drift past through the mist. | ||
| You know, other moments are in high death, but kind of seen through a tunnel vision. | ||
| Like, and it's, it was, there was an energy or it was, there was an energy I tapped into that felt like I was playing a role, but I couldn't figure out if, you know, what the move, what the plot was, who my co-stars were. | ||
| Where somebody, you know, somebody show up with like a page one rewrite. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| That's what we fucking need. | ||
| And it got away from me. | ||
| And had it not been encouraged, I think it could have been curtailed. | ||
| It could have been shut down a lot sooner. | ||
| You become kind of captured to the image. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And there was something that, and just recently, something I stumbled onto, it's I was, I was, in some way, I was being a bully. | ||
| It had a bullying kind of energy about it, you know, and I've never been that guy. | ||
| How so? | ||
| How so like bully? | ||
| The way I was attacking people and the way I was challenging people. | ||
| I was like the tough guy on the block and had all these soldiers. | ||
| I had this cold cadre behind me and it was like, you know, inviting people into the ring. | ||
| I've never been in the ring. | ||
| What are we doing? | ||
| You know? | ||
|
unidentified
|
You're on coke. | |
| Total cocaine behavior. | ||
| Among other things. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I think there was a whole testosterone component as well that was just out of control because, you know, what do they recommend? | ||
| Like a quarter-sized dollop and like every other day? | ||
| And no, there's a line in the book where I say I was slathering that shit on like a fucking Pons commercial. | ||
| Oh, so you're using the cream? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, which is hard to measure. | ||
| It's not just hard to measure. | ||
| It gets on other people. | ||
| I read this story about this guy who is on TRT Cream and his child started showing signs of premature development. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| And they realized that this kid's testosterone level was through the roof because it's through the dermis, right? | ||
| It's through the skin. | ||
| So he's getting in on his arms and then he's hugging his child and the kid is getting juiced. | ||
| Like, what were the kids' numbers? | ||
| Did we know? | ||
| We don't know. | ||
| I don't think they released that, but they said that it probably permanently affected the kid's development. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Because this kid is like experiencing puberty at three. | ||
| You know, you're getting bombarded with testosterone while your dad is holding it. | ||
| Insane. | ||
| Insane. | ||
| Is that part of the reason they recommend like an inner thigh application? | ||
| I guess then the only person would get it is the person you're having sex with. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Or your horse. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's probably good for the horse. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So there was testosterone and cocaine together at the same time. | ||
| That sounds like a combination of hubris. | ||
| And a lot of rage. | ||
| And a lot of rage. | ||
| A lot of rage. | ||
| But the rage, I think, it's interesting because when you finally get some distance from something, you start to realize that it wasn't really so much about what you said it was about in the moment. | ||
| And I'm really realizing it wasn't about the job, wasn't about Chuck. | ||
| It was about all the stuff in my personal life. | ||
| It was about trying to just be a certain guy at work, be a certain guy at home, and then just never having the time to be a certain guy with me. | ||
| And I just couldn't, I couldn't find any place to find any refuge or solace or any type of just a moment to breathe, just to decompress. | ||
| That's so important. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And there was a, it's not in the book because I can't really, I don't remember it well enough to put it in the book. | ||
| And that was kind of how I decided what's in there and what's not, right? | ||
| Or if something just isn't true, it's not in the book. | ||
| And so, but it, you know, I was, I was, I was trying to just kind of, you know, like, you know, I, I, I, I went through two divorces and had four children during during that run of eight years, you know? | ||
| And so that's crazy. | ||
| It's insane, yeah. | ||
| And, and they both, you know, they, they fell apart for, for, for myriad reasons and whatever, and, and, but, there wasn't time to heal the last one before the next one kicked off. | ||
| But that's all on me. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| That's all on me making those decisions. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's one of the through lines in the book is that it like really comes down to really being all about choices, you know. | ||
| But then, yeah, and and and and but it's just for for it to be just talking about the bullying stuff, you know, for it to be so directed at a guy who lets like, if you really break it down, what did he really do to me? | ||
| He created this environment with a dream character in an amazing show, so people tell me, right? | ||
| That, that, that was, you know, the toast of the town, right? | ||
| And all he asked from me was to just like, you know, just show up, be responsible, know your lines, hit your marks, do your fucking job, you know? | ||
| Those were the only demands. | ||
| Essentially, the stuff I told him before I took the job that I was going to do. | ||
| So, and then I turn it into that. | ||
| You know, it's really difficult to really look back on that and figure out why it got that far, how it got that far. | ||
| I can help you out. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Testosterone and cocaine. | ||
| Testosterone and cocaine. | ||
| Having all kinds of conversations with people in your head that'll tell you exactly what you're doing is correct. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Sorry. | ||
| Did you ever talk to Chuck? | ||
| Did you ever like Chuck? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Sorry. | ||
| Yeah, no, it was. | ||
| Yeah, no, that was, I was really grateful we were able to do that. | ||
| Oh, that's nice. | ||
| I was carrying that around for too long. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He hired me for a show he had a few years ago called Bookie with Sebastian Maniscalco, right? | ||
| Oh, yeah, that's right. | ||
| So I came in and did, I played myself, did a few scenes, did a cameo, you know, did some fun stuff and just back on a set with Chuck. | ||
| And it was like, it was, it just felt like it, like it, like it, like it did in the early part of the day. | ||
| Oh, that's cool. | ||
| Well, good on him for not holding a grudge, too. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's awesome. | ||
| Sorry, I lost that thought earlier. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no, no. | |
| Where the hell was I going? | ||
| Well, it's a complicated thing to think about. | ||
| Like, why did I go off the rails? | ||
| You know, it's like, and it's very reasonable. | ||
| Here's the thing. | ||
| I don't think anybody but Charlie Sheen knows what it's like to be Charlie Sheen. | ||
| And in my estimation, there are a scant few people that have become massive superstars at a young age and came through it sane. | ||
| I don't know anybody. | ||
| Everybody, I mean, I know people that have regained equilibrium and got their footing back and now they're on the right track. | ||
| But no one gets through without a hiccup. | ||
| Everyone kind of goes crazy because you're living in this completely alien world that no one can help you navigate. | ||
| Even if you've watched the people closest to you go through it most of your life and like just like right over there. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Like in the in the next room. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Right. | ||
| You know, or in the same room. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And a bunch of your friends. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It doesn't matter. | ||
| It's still bananas. | ||
| It's still an alien world that you live in that no one that you run into during the day except the people like that can understand. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Which is like people are always like, why do celebrities hang out with each other? | ||
| Well, because to them, they're the only people that are normal. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're the only people that like, I get it. | ||
| I can't go to the supermarket either. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| Yeah, I get fucking TMZ'd at the airport as well. | ||
| It's like, it's normal for them because everybody else is like, whoa, it's Charlie Sheen. | ||
| And they're just captivated. | ||
| Like you kind of need to be around people that understand what that life is like. | ||
| But the problem is they're all going crazy too. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's not, I mean, it's a great support group to a degree. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| I think you can rely on them for the things that you have in common. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But maybe take the more complicated shit just right across the street. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| To the experts. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You can't rely on them for everything. | ||
| No. | ||
| Because they're going through it too. | ||
| Can I just get a tissue? | ||
| Yeah, sure, sure, sure. | ||
| Jimmy, you got a box? | ||
| Awesome. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Sorry, I'm just kidding. | ||
| No worries. | ||
| Getting sweaty? | ||
| Is it hot in here? | ||
| Turn the AC on. | ||
| No, I'll tell you exactly what happened. | ||
| I lost that thought, and then I tried to cover, and I realized he's not buying this. | ||
| And then I started sweating. | ||
| And I started fucking sweating. | ||
| So I'm just going to. | ||
| It's normal, man. | ||
| Just say you lost your thought. | ||
| It's all good. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It happens all the time. | ||
| It happens to me, too. | ||
| Why is that, though? | ||
| Is our brain already trying to figure out the next thing that's going to attach to it? | ||
| And by doing so, it took that the main thing and just dismissed it? | ||
| Perhaps. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| It's also brains are just not that good. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Huh. | |
| You know, they're pretty good compared to chimp pansies and dogs and stuff like that. | ||
| But, you know, they have a lot of issues. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Just like we were talking about your memories. | ||
| Like my memories of my whole life are like a series of blurry snapshots that I can go, oh yeah, then we went there. | ||
| Oh yeah, that happened. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh yeah. | |
| There's very few memories that I have that are like rock solid memories. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I totally get that. | ||
| And there's a little thing in the book where I talk about memories are tricky. | ||
| And is it a story someone told me? | ||
| Is it me in that moment? | ||
| Or is it a creased photo I saw on an old album in the 70s or 80s? | ||
| Was the memory given to me or did I create it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And there's also the real possibility that you have false memories. | ||
| And people do that all the time. | ||
| And they've even shown that they can introduce memories into people's minds. | ||
| And then with enough sort of encouragement or revisiting it, that person will accept it as a pure memory. | ||
| That it actually happened to them. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And they'll talk about it outside of that. | ||
| And they'll have no knowledge that it was a false memory. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah, because it's just not a good system. | ||
| It's a system designed to keep you away from scary things. | ||
| Like there's the wolf. | ||
| Oh, get away from the wolf. | ||
| You know, wolves are bad. | ||
| I remember. | ||
| I remember wolves are bad. | ||
| That's the spider that's poisoned. | ||
| Get away from that spider. | ||
| That spider is poison. | ||
| But like day to day, everyday normal shit, it's like, how much of a memory does it really need to keep? | ||
| It's just, your brain's just not that good. | ||
| And then, and then even, and then so do certain, do, um, certain memories then get overlaid with a, a, a newer version of that. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah, the narratives. | ||
| They get narrative. | ||
| And you start repeating the memory and your memory becomes of you repeating the memory. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So it's like you don't even really have the memory anymore. | ||
| You have, you know how to say it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Didn't that happen with that one Kaczynski witness? | ||
| Did it? | ||
| With a Unibomber witness? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Interesting. | ||
| Yeah, because that's why the first composite that was put out really ultimately wound up looking nothing like the actual guy. | ||
| Oh, interesting. | ||
| Yeah, there was a thing that, yeah, there was a thing where her memory was corrupted by a different description from somebody else. | ||
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| Well, there's also the factor that the Unit Bomber was such a traumatic event that this person was probably super freaked out, which is when your memory is the worst. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Yeah, that's why eyewitness accounts of like murders and chaos, they're really bad. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right. | |
| They're really bad. | ||
| Very unreliable. | ||
| There's some really, really awful percentage about even when they wind up in a courtroom. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like the determining, like the final nail from the person, that guy, that it's like sometimes it's as high as like 60% that they're just wrong. | ||
| Yeah, and then they'll convince themselves that they're right because they've already said it. | ||
| So then the ego gets involved. | ||
| And then, you know, it's just traumatic events leave you, you're in a high state of anxiety and you're not thinking clearly. | ||
| You're freaked out. | ||
| And, you know, like when they have events like, say, like 9-11, if you were anywhere near that and you saw like people jump off the buildings and fall to their deaths, like your memories of that are probably really clear because it was fucking crazy. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| But your memories of people that you might have saw that were running away or maybe you saw a guy in a van and he looked fishy or maybe this or maybe that. | ||
| And then a few days go by and you probably haven't slept well. | ||
| You're all freaked out. | ||
| Your memory's probably a mess. | ||
| It's probably filled with the news now. | ||
| And then there's other people's eyewitness accounts and, you know, you don't know what the fuck happened. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know, you see someone die, you see someone jump off a building. | ||
| You're going to remember that. | ||
| But there's some stuff that it's just our, you know, this is one of the scariest things about transhumanism is that it's really appealing in the idea that they give you a little hard drive in your brain. | ||
| And now from now on, every time you want a memory, you can go just like, you know, you look on your phone, like your iPhone on this day in 2017, you're like, oh, look at us. | ||
| That's cool. | ||
| You're going to be able to do that in your brain. | ||
| You know, and the way that we're going to buy into it is because our memory sucks. | ||
| That's how they're going to sell it to us. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I mean, do you remember your phone number when you were a kid? | ||
| No, but I remember my address because it rhymed. | ||
| That's nice. | ||
| Yeah, it was 7212 Birdview Avenue, Malibu. | ||
| Well, you used to remember your phone number. | ||
| What happened? | ||
| It goes away because your memory sucks. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I know my parents' number because they still have a landline. | ||
| Oh, they're still rocking the landlord. | ||
| Yeah, they are. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they have an answering machine. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| During dinner, they haven't really turned it. | ||
| Oh, and then people start talking in the background. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But it's just part of it. | ||
| It's part of the experience. | ||
| They're rocking a landline with an answering machine in 2025. | ||
| That is. | ||
| It's probably the way to do it. | ||
| I used to love the answering machine. | ||
| Would you come home, the light would be flashing like someone likes me. | ||
| Somebody called. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| It was cool. | ||
| It's like you had a dog coming home to visit you when you came home. | ||
| Like, oh, look. | ||
| It's like in Deuce Bigelow when it's like he's at his lowest point. | ||
| The thing in the light is never blinking. | ||
| I forgot about that. | ||
| You have no new messages. | ||
| Yeah, that was a wild time where you could get phone calls. | ||
| That's the other thing is like you got famous before the internet too, which is a different world. | ||
| It's a different world because there's not that many of you. | ||
| There's way less famous people. | ||
| There's way more famous people now. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You got famous like super duper famous at 21 years old with no internet. | ||
| Trip out. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How does anybody expect you to come out normal? | |
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| And you try, you can't really even explain to someone that wasn't around during all that. | ||
| You can't really explain what it felt like because they look at it as the things that were missing. | ||
| And there wasn't anything missing. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It was about having to really be engaged in everything you were doing. | ||
| You know, you had to show up to gain, to get a like. | ||
| You had to enter the building. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| You had to go on a talk show. | ||
| You had to attend a junket. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| And nobody knew what the behind the scenes of your movie looked like until years later on the DVD feature or the VHS feature that they finally saw some of that stuff. | ||
| It wasn't all access 24-7, 365. | ||
| And for some people, they can't leave it alone. | ||
| They have to live stream during the day. | ||
| They're live streaming from their trailer. | ||
| They're live streaming in their car on the way home. | ||
| They're like. | ||
| Yeah, what is that about? | ||
| They're nuts. | ||
| They're just locked into this weird new world that we're living in. | ||
| But is it, I mean, is it because there's genuinely people that are tuning in with enthusiasm that are looking forward to that live stream in the car ride home? | ||
| Or because the person, or is it a combination? | ||
| I think it's those things. | ||
| And it's also that thing that you said that you didn't ever get, they're scared of. | ||
| You didn't ever get alone time. | ||
| Just time to decompress and think. | ||
| Just be by yourself. | ||
| No phone, no TV. | ||
| Just fucking sit on the couch and just like catch your breath. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And they don't want that. | ||
| They're scared of that. | ||
| So they're just constantly engaged with something. | ||
| I like entire days of that. | ||
| Ooh, that's nice. | ||
| Alone on the couch. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Watching TV. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's nice. | |
| It's nice to just shut off, right? | ||
| It really is. | ||
| It's all work, no play. | ||
| Not good. | ||
| Not good at all. | ||
| Not good. | ||
| Bad for you. | ||
| And bad for your work, too. | ||
| Because it makes you just kind of, it gets dreary. | ||
| You don't have the same enthusiasm for it anymore. | ||
| You know, it's like you need discipline, but you also need enthusiasm. | ||
| You know what I was going to say earlier? | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| All right. | ||
| The memory just, you know, dropped another token in the slot. | ||
| Is that now, no, you know, it doesn't even connect. | ||
| It doesn't? | ||
| Let's find out. | ||
| Well, no, then I actually forgot it again. | ||
| How about that? | ||
| Is that fucking nuts? | ||
| It's normal. | ||
| It's normal. | ||
| When you first got Platoon, did you have any idea what the fuck was going to happen? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I didn't. | |
| I didn't. | ||
| For people today to understand how big that movie was, because it was one of the very first realistic war movies. | ||
| And I think very importantly, it was done by Oliver Stone, who was actually a veteran of the Vietnam War. | ||
| You remembering what you wrote down? | ||
| What you? | ||
| Just that piece. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'm not going to forget it again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Pardon. | ||
| Sorry. | ||
| But it was a different kind of war movie, you know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Much on the lines of your dad's movie. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, and that was a very different kind of war movie as well. | ||
| Yeah, Apocalypse from here, Platoon, you know, boots on the ground. | ||
| The script didn't read like it was going to be a masterpiece. | ||
| The script read like it like kind of like a docudrama sort of movie of the week. | ||
| It didn't. | ||
| You didn't read that script and say, oh, wow, okay, yeah, this is the one. | ||
| People are going to really, wow, they're going to worship this thing. | ||
| It didn't, the dialogue was very clipped and very, very specific. | ||
| You kind of never really knew where you were in the script, in the scene descriptions. | ||
| You know, the script was so lean. | ||
| I think it was like barely 100 pages. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, but I didn't realize sort of what we were doing until we were actually doing it. | ||
| Usually I can read a scene and get a sense of what my responsibilities are going to be or how we're going to break it down or at least how I'm going to see it on the screen. | ||
| And I couldn't do that with Platoon because all the terrain, all the scenes, everything kind of felt very similar, you know? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And the original title was The Platoon. | ||
| You think it's as big a hit if he keeps the the? | ||
| Yeah, I don't think it matters. | ||
| It's a great movie. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| It's a great movie. | ||
| It doesn't matter. | ||
| But we started to feel it as we got deeper into it. | ||
| And Oliver did something brilliant where he decided to film it in continuity. | ||
| Like from page one, day one, all the way to the final day was the final page. | ||
| And that gave us a chance that like when something was finished, you were done with it. | ||
| And you didn't have to know how you were going to react or how you already reacted to something that hadn't happened yet. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And when people died in the movie, they got sent home. | ||
| They were just like the next day, they were just gone. | ||
| I guess he wanted us to feel that sense of just someone gone, that loss, that sadness. | ||
| Now, I'm not saying that I would know how that felt in the real thing, but we bonded really, you know, pretty, pretty, yeah, we were bonded in a way that, because we were the only people that we had in the middle of that country, in the middle of that jungle, in the middle of that movie. | ||
| So you really missed somebody when they were suddenly gone. | ||
| I would love to ask. | ||
| I mean, I've had Oliver on a couple times, but I would love to ask him what it's like to make a movie about a war that he was starring and like what kind of bizarre mental conflicts. | ||
| Yeah, he didn't get into any of that stuff when he was going to be able to do that. | ||
| Not really. | ||
| I mean, he talked a little bit about his experience in Vietnam, but I don't think we really talked about. | ||
| Did we talk about the making of Platoon? | ||
| We got so heavy into the JFK assassination, we hardly covered anything else. | ||
| Oh, got it. | ||
| Especially the last time he was on. | ||
| The last time he was on was when they were doing that Showtime JFK documentary. | ||
| It was a Showtime thing, right? | ||
| Wasn't it? | ||
| I think it was, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Where there was a multi-part piece that he put together. | ||
| I saw it, yeah. | ||
| His recall is insane. | ||
| It's insane. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It is. | |
| You have a conversation with him. | ||
| He's pulling up dates. | ||
| He's got no book. | ||
| I mean, how old is Oliver at this point in time? | ||
| Upper 70s. | ||
| I just turned 60. | ||
| So if he was in. | ||
| 78. | ||
| He's 78. | ||
| 78 years old. | ||
| Rock-solid memory. | ||
| I mean, rock-solid. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| The dude was just pulling up dates and names, and Alan Dulles did this. | ||
| And Harry Ant. | ||
| It was just like the entire Warren Commission report. | ||
| He's like citing different passages in it. | ||
| It's bananas. | ||
| That's deep. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Has he landed on like what, can he point to or is it several fate can point to, but there was a lot of people that wanted him dead. | ||
| And for sure, there was a lot of fuckery going on with the Warren Commission, for sure. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| There's a lot of nonsense with the autopsies. | ||
| There's a lot of nonsense with the single bullet going through both him and Connolly and leaving more bullet fragments in Connolly's wrist than that magic bullet was missing, the one they found. | ||
| It's like bullshit. | ||
| The story's filled with bullshit. | ||
| And no one really knew how much bullshit it was until they had that video that they played of the Zapruder film on the Geraldo Rivera show. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When Dick Gregory came on and, who was a comedian, which was pretty wild, came on and had the footage of the Kennedy assassination. | ||
| Everybody sees Kennedy's head go back into the left. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| What happened there? | ||
| And you immediately apply just simple common physics to it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, especially anybody who's ever fired a weapon. | ||
| Also, it clearly looks like he got shot in the chest, too. | ||
| Like when he grabs his neck. | ||
| It clearly looks like he got shot right there. | ||
| And there's always that talk about doing a trach. | ||
| They did a trach. | ||
| But you know, there's two different autopsies. | ||
| There's the autopsy in Dallas that says it's an entry wound. | ||
| And there's the autopsy in Bethesda, Maryland that says it's tracheotomy. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Two different autopsies. | ||
| Make up your mind. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And it also looks like by the time they got to Bethesda, they kind of glued his head back together again. | ||
| Or at least put the pieces back to take a photo of it. | ||
| It's like more was missing from what they were talking about in Dallas than the Bethesda. | ||
| That's the shot where the gloved hand looks like it's pointing. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| There's a great book called Best Evidence by David Lifton, and he was an accountant. | ||
| And he had some sort of assignment involving the Warren Commission report. | ||
| And so what he decided to do is read the entire thing. | ||
| And so in the reading of the entire thing, he finds so many contradictions, so many things that don't make any sense that he starts becoming obsessed. | ||
| And then he finds out how many people who are witnesses to the assassination wind up dying mysteriously. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Off the charts. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Off the charts. | ||
| Like 95% of them. | ||
| All those people that were hanging around, like a giant ton of them died in car accidents. | ||
| Weird fucking. | ||
| Who is the guy in the train tower? | ||
| A guy named Bowers, right? | ||
| Who is Bowers? | ||
| He was the guy that saw Badgeman. | ||
| He saw people behind the knoll. | ||
| He saw the exchange of the rifle. | ||
| He saw all these weird shit. | ||
| Died, I think he had a heart attack on a train track and then also got hit by the train. | ||
| I could be wrong, but it was one of those type of things. | ||
| But of course, yeah. | ||
| And then, but wasn't it, what was the, who's the guy who's standing at the, when the curb explodes, like near the underpass. | ||
| Oh, yeah, that's the guy. | ||
| That's the reason why they had to come up with the magic bullet theory. | ||
| Is that Teague? | ||
| No, what's his name? | ||
| I don't remember. | ||
| Did he die weird? | ||
| Probably. | ||
| I don't know if he died weird, but he was hit with a ricochet. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And they knew that the overpass adds a bullet. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| They had to add that. | ||
| And they were, okay, how do we fix this? | ||
| Right. | ||
| What about? | ||
| We said only one guy did it. | ||
| It's only three shots. | ||
| So how do we come up with a reasonable excuse? | ||
| And they came up with the magic bullet. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And I think the architect of that was Spectre. | ||
| I think it was Arlen Spectre. | ||
| Yeah, I think it was his idea. | ||
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| They just bullshitted people. | ||
| But back then, you can get away with that. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, it was pretty easy to just bullshit people. | ||
| And you see all the additional cameras, like Babushka Lady, for instance, right? | ||
| And all that stuff just confiscated. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, they had the Zapruder film for a long time. | ||
| I think Time Life had it. | ||
| And then somehow or another, Dick Gregory got it. | ||
| Was it ever released with missing frames? | ||
| Wasn't there the jump cut when he goes behind the sign and then it jumps? | ||
| Because didn't they take out the fatal head hit at some point and then tried to sell that? | ||
| Perhaps. | ||
| They probably did at one point in time. | ||
| But now, obviously, you can see the whole thing. | ||
| And then it's also been AI enhanced. | ||
| I don't know if you've seen the AI enhanced one. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I haven't. | |
| No. | ||
| It's grisly. | ||
| It's even more gruesome. | ||
| It's gruesome. | ||
| I mean, I think he was shot from multiple angles simultaneously. | ||
| That's what I think. | ||
| I think he was shot both from the back and from the front. | ||
| And I think Lee Harvey Oswald, if he wasn't involved, he certainly wasn't innocent. | ||
| He was probably the guy that they were going to frame it on. | ||
| But I think he was in on the whole thing. | ||
| Anyway, I think he killed a cop afterwards as well. | ||
| Tippet, no, Tippett. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Have you ever read that thing about because Tippett's nickname back at the precinct was JFK? | ||
| Don't read this thing. | ||
| Then they show the side-by-side of how much they really look like each other. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| So they're saying he was the body they used for the transfer when they flew with the empty coffin, you know, all that stuff. | ||
| Yeah, it's, I mean, it is so many just, you know, warrens to travel down, and there's so many angles to explore. | ||
| There's too many. | ||
| There's so many rabbit holes to go down. | ||
| We were introduced to it as kids because dad played both Kennedys. | ||
| So we were seeing documentaries at like, you know, I would have been 10 or 11, Emilia was 13 or 14. | ||
| And so we've been involved in this thing for a lot longer than we should have been. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| We had access to this stuff. | ||
| And so. | ||
| It was just nuts that no one was brought to justice. | ||
| And we know for sure more people were involved than Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald. | ||
| There was more people involved. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| No one was brought to justice and they got away with it. | ||
| We don't want to think that they get away with things like killing the president, but they did. | ||
| In broad daylight. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And blaming it on a lone gunman, a lone nut. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Who they already had a full description and rapture and rundown and everything about him. | ||
| They printed articles about him before it was even over. | ||
| And then the Jack Ruby thing, where Jack Ruby goes completely insane in jail after he's visited by Jolly West, who is the head of MK Ultra, who is routinely dosing people with acid. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Jolly West cooked Jack Ruby's brain in jail and just left him insane. | ||
| He's the guy from what's the book that it's come chaos. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I actually read Chaos before it got all the attention. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| A friend of mine gave it to me and I was and I, all right, I'll read a couple pages and I was like, oh, oh, okay. | ||
| This is one of his best books. | ||
| This is a different take. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I'm curious how you felt about the documentary they did about it. | ||
| I didn't watch it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I thought it was going to be too quick. | ||
| 90 minutes. | ||
| I didn't think was like enough time. | ||
| It's only 90 minutes, right? | ||
| I thought it was the first episode. | ||
| Oh, you know what? | ||
| So I watched it sort of like a data gathering thing that you usually do with the first episode and kind of just seeing what the director is doing and what kind of stuff they're laying out early. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, and then when it ended and I didn't see that second episode with the timer, right? | ||
| And I was, oh, that's, and I thought it was a complete, I thought it radically underserved the book. | ||
| Yeah, maybe they could try again. | ||
| They need to, that needs to be like an eight-part, two-hour a-piece series. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah, because it's so nuts. | ||
| The story is so nuts. | ||
| Just the provable actual facts are so nuts that very likely Charles Manson was a CIA asset. | ||
| Very likely they had groomed him when he was in prison and taught him mind control techniques when people were high on acid, taught him how to be sober but pretend he's on acid and how to interact with these people that are on acid and shape their mind and even get them to commit murder. | ||
| All of which is fact. | ||
| Yeah, no, it's I would say it's insane, but so much of it is, I don't want to say provable, but has enough supporting evidence to make a compelling case. | ||
| And I love that the guy starts out just like a, you know, just a kind of a normal celebrity assignment for Premier Magazine, right? | ||
| Yeah, I've been on that magazine. | ||
| I had that cover twice. | ||
| My story didn't wind up like that. | ||
| It was a story for a magazine, and it was just about the anniversary of the murders. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| That's what it was. | ||
| You know, just give us peace, you know, so people can go, wow, crazy. | ||
| 25 years later. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And then he gets obsessed and he starts realizing, well, this guy was full of shit and that guy was corrupted. | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| Look at this. | ||
| And hold on. | ||
| Who's Jolly West? | ||
| You know, like, what's MK Ultra? | ||
| This is real Freedom of Information Act. | ||
| Get the documents. | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| Operation Midnight Climax. | ||
| The government was running whorehouses? | ||
| They were running whorehouses and using two-way mirrors and dosing Johns and filming them. | ||
| And this has to do with Manson? | ||
| Like, what the fuck was going on? | ||
| And then you realize that it was all a psyop to try to demonize the peace, love, and stop war movement. | ||
| And that what they really wanted to do was stop the anti-war movement and do something to curb the cultural change that was happening. | ||
| And so their strategy was to turn hippies into murderers. | ||
| It kind of worked. | ||
| It kind of worked. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It kind of worked. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I mean, it's a long way to go, but I think it had the effect they were looking for. | ||
| Imagine if they didn't do that. | ||
| Like, what kind of cultural change would have taken place? | ||
| Because if you think about what happened between 1950 and 1960, it's like the world becomes a different place in 10 years. | ||
| Between 1960 and 1970, it's like, what? | ||
| This world is crazy. | ||
| The music is crazy. | ||
| The culture is crazy. | ||
| The movies are nuts. | ||
| Everything is wild. | ||
| It's very psychedelic. | ||
| And then Nixon comes along in 1970, passes this sweeping Schedule I Act, makes all mushrooms and LSD, makes everything illegal, all to stop the civil wars, the civil rights movement and the anti-war movement at the same time when they're doing this Manson stuff. | ||
| So it was a concerted effort across the board to stop the anti-war movement and to stop the civil rights movement. | ||
| They were like, we're losing control and power. | ||
| And so, I mean, it was an evil thing to do, but you kind of got to give them credit because it was pretty brilliant. | ||
| Like, they actually pulled it off. | ||
| You think of Serial Killer, you think of Manson. | ||
| You think of the family. | ||
| Oh, my God, these hippies are murderous. | ||
| A bunch of murderous freaks on drugs, cutting women's babies out of their stomachs and writing pig on the wall. | ||
| Like, this is nuts. | ||
| Yeah, and they brought the Beatles into it. | ||
| And our own goddamn government engineered it. | ||
| They engineered, they stopped what was probably one of the most beautiful cultural shifts in this country's history. | ||
| That would have organically still kept evolving into the things that would have blossomed out of it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah, we probably would have rethought government. | ||
| We probably would have rethought the type of people that we want as leaders. | ||
| We'd have rethought our involvement in foreign wars. | ||
| There would have been no support for it. | ||
| We would have rethought what psychedelic drugs can do for you versus the bad aspects of them. | ||
| We would have rethought everything. | ||
| The music would have been a lot better. | ||
| Music took a big dip. | ||
| Yeah, it did. | ||
| Music took a big dip after they got rid of the drugs that were good and brought in the Coke. | ||
| But people do point to the death of the 60s occurred up at Cielo Drive. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, it was effective. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, that completely demonized any peace love and any of that kind of movement. | ||
| Those people became a real problem now because you're now connected to Manson. | ||
| It was instantly zero tolerance. | ||
| Like overnight. | ||
| It's kind of nuts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Kind of nuts that it was really all engineered by the government. | ||
| You know, it's really that in itself, in and of itself, is a terrible crime that they sort of engineered society to their benefit so that they could maintain control. | ||
| And the way they did it is by getting a horrible con who had been in and out of jail his whole life and teaching him how to run a cult. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| A murderous cult. | ||
| And setting up at a free clinic in the Haight. | ||
| Where my wife's mom went. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| My wife's mom was a hippie. | ||
| You have a connection to this. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| My wife's mom went. | ||
| She was a hippie in Haight Ashbury and she went to the Haight Ashbury Free Clinic. | ||
| Treated at that clinic. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Wow. | ||
| You know, that clinic didn't shut down until after Tom O'Neill's book came out. | ||
| That clinic would have been running for over 50 years. | ||
| So it ran until like 2022? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| When did it close? | ||
| It closed shortly after that book came out. | ||
| They're like, hey, we're good. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let's get out of here. | |
| I could have gone there while I was reading the book. | ||
| Yes. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The CIA was running fucking clinic. | |
| What a trip. | ||
| That is so nuts. | ||
| And that clinic also connected to Jolly West. | ||
| That clinic also connected to all sorts of other marijuana experiences. | ||
| San Francisco is where they were doing Operation Midnight Climax. | ||
| That's where they had a brothel. | ||
|
unidentified
|
These are the people that are supposed to be like, protect and serve. | |
| Look out for your best interests. | ||
| And these motherfuckers are creating Manson and completely shifting society and turning people into whatever the fuck we became in the 70s and the 80s. | ||
| The book came out June 25th, 2019. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And the clinic closed July 2019. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Seriously. | |
| Yeah, 20 months later. | ||
| Like, fuck, we got busted. | ||
| That dude read the foreword and was like, guys, we got a problem. | ||
| Yeah, that's probably how long it took them just to clear the building out. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| And try to figure out whether they're going to kill Tom O'Neill. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Has he been on the show? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| What's he like? | ||
| He's great. | ||
| He's great. | ||
| He's actually my good friend, Greg Fitzsimmons. | ||
| He was his neighbor in New York when he first started working on this. | ||
| And then he became his neighbor also in Venice. | ||
| Like, he's been his neighbor for like 20 years. | ||
| So Greg's followed him from this entire journey. | ||
| And Greg had been telling me about it for years. | ||
| I'm like, when's your friend going to get that fucking book done? | ||
| And then finally, he says, tells me the whole story, how it took so long. | ||
| He's like, you got to have him on. | ||
| The book is insane. | ||
| I'm like, let's go. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So we had him on, and it was incredible. | ||
| First of all, I listened to the book first before I had him on. | ||
| I listened to the audio version. | ||
| I was like, this is nuts. | ||
| This is nuts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
If this is all true, this is fucking insane. | |
| And it's all true. | ||
| So they really did engineer a murderous cult of hippies. | ||
| And almost used the clinic as a casting couch, as an audition process for which girls they thought would be the most vulnerable. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Crazy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Crazy that the CIA was doing that. | ||
| It's just. | ||
| I thought they were supposed to just operate on foreign soil. | ||
| I know they were, but sometimes things get messy. | ||
| But it's like they You talk to like your average boomer who just watches cable news and reads the newspaper, they'd never believe this in a million years. | ||
| And they'll hear us talking about it, thinking, come on, guys. | ||
| Oh, you're out of your mind. | ||
| But they also will never read the book. | ||
| No, never read the book. | ||
| And then when things get proven, they never apologize. | ||
| Imagine that. | ||
| Never apologize for your baseless conspiracy theories that all turned out to be true. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because, you know, conspiracies are fucking real. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| This conspiracy theory pejorative that they really started foisting on the American public during the Kennedy assassination was for that very reason. | ||
| They wanted to make it ridiculous. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| That's where the term was coined. | ||
| That's where the term became popularized. | ||
| Apparently, the term existed before that. | ||
| We researched this, right? | ||
| Didn't we Google the original term of conspiracy theorists? | ||
| It's quite a bit earlier, but it was never like a thing in the public zeitgeist. | ||
| It became a thing during the Kennedy assassination because a lot of people were questioning it because it looked weird. | ||
| Even the people that hadn't seen the Zapruder film, everything just seemed off. | ||
| It seemed off. | ||
| And there were rumblings amongst people that were there that the big one was the shots from the grassy knoll. | ||
| Many people talked about gunshots. | ||
| And that one photo where there's like 15 people pointing to the same spot. | ||
| And you see smoke near where the bushes are. | ||
| And it's not a good photo, but it's good enough. | ||
| You go, hmm. | ||
| It's just too, it was too uniform. | ||
| You know, people were, they all were pointing. | ||
| We heard shots from back there. | ||
| There is a thing that does happen, especially if you look at Dealey Plaza have you ever driven through? | ||
| I have. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I've walked the whole crime scene. | ||
| It's weird to be there. | ||
| First of all, it's so little. | ||
| You can't believe how close everything is. | ||
| It's real little. | ||
| But that they sent him into that tight turn and put him into that convertible pickle jar. | ||
| I mean, completely planned. | ||
| And you watch the motorcycle cops drop back. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| Just drop back. | ||
| And there's something I read. | ||
| Did you ever read The Man Who Killed Kennedy? | ||
| I think it's Jim Mars. | ||
| Do you remember Jim Mars? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Did you ever have him on? | ||
| No, I didn't. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He's. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| He wrote Sci Spies, which was all about remote viewing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| He's a trip. | ||
| He was deep into everything. | ||
| I go back and forth on that remote viewing. | ||
| I do too. | ||
| I do too. | ||
| But there's something in one of his books, and I've never been able to find it anywhere else. | ||
| It's almost like this little detail was scrubbed from the internet that the Morse code signal for victory right after the fatal headshot went out over every Dallas police radio. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa. | |
| Have you ever heard that? | ||
| No. | ||
| Okay, I read that. | ||
| This is disclaimer. | ||
| I'm not coming up with this. | ||
| This is not my original data. | ||
| But yeah, when I read that, that was creepy. | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
| And I don't know that he would have just added that for color. | ||
| That's not something you just throw out there. | ||
| Yeah, that's a weird thing to add. | ||
| Victory. | ||
| Well, a lot of people hated Kennedy back then. | ||
| It's hard for us to reconcile now today because we think of him as like one of our greatest presidents. | ||
| Of course, because he got murdered. | ||
| We always love him after they get shot. | ||
| But when he was alive, this was like half the country fucking hated him. | ||
| And then there was the Bay of Pigs disaster where we lost a lot of people because Kennedy didn't give him air support. | ||
| He wasn't told about the invasion until like last moment and air support was crucial to its success. | ||
| He denied air support. | ||
| A bunch of people died that weren't going to die. | ||
| And so those guys on the ground, my friend Evan has a theory. | ||
| My friend Evan, who owns Black Rifle Coffee, who was a Ranger himself. | ||
| I met him. | ||
| He's the best. | ||
| I love him. | ||
| I love him to death. | ||
| But he said, like, those guys, those are hard-nosed killers. | ||
| And if they think that they lost their brothers because this fucking piece of shit didn't give them the air support that they deserved, it was Kennedy's idea. | ||
| And you tell them that you want to get that guy killed, like, oh, fucking sign me up. | ||
| Those guys would do it. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| He's like, those would be the type of guys you would have do something like that. | ||
| And they would probably tell you this would be a perfect place to do it. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| A tight little turn. | ||
| Anybody who says, by the way, because conspiracies get, everybody gets binary on this one way or another. | ||
| I believe this or I believe that. | ||
| Anybody who says that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't make that shot has never shot a rifle. | ||
| You're full of shit. | ||
| If the rifle's on, it was not that far. | ||
| I'm not saying he could do it 100 times out of 100. | ||
| But the possibility of him having that rifle ready, he's got a scope. | ||
| He's got a rest. | ||
| The car comes into view. | ||
| You roll the sight onto his back. | ||
| You squeeze off around. | ||
| Squeeze off around. | ||
| And you get a headshot in there. | ||
| That's 100% possible. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| I just don't buy it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I don't buy it. | ||
| I don't think he acted alone. | ||
| If he did do it, he might have done it. | ||
| He might have shot at him. | ||
| He might have even hit him once. | ||
| There were other people. | ||
| He was the Patsy. | ||
| And I think when he said, I'm just a Patsy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The way he said it was not like a guy who murdered somebody. | ||
| The way he said it was like, I can't believe they set me up. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| So I think he was in on a bunch of it. | ||
| I just don't think he pulled the trigger. | ||
| Or if he did pull the trigger, he was one of many people that pulled the trigger. | ||
| That's what I think. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But there was a lot of other people saying, oh, he couldn't have made those shots because the rifle scope was off. | ||
| You don't know what the fuck you're talking about because I could get your rifle scope to be off in five seconds. | ||
| Okay, if your rifle scope's perfect, is it zeroed in? | ||
| Bang, I drop it on the ground. | ||
| Try it again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It'll be off by six inches at 200 yards. | |
| You're going to move that thing. | ||
| They're fragile. | ||
| They require micro adjustments with little Allen wrenches and hex keys and shit. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| They don't torque them too much. | ||
| You get it dialed in perfect. | ||
| On a $37 rifle. | ||
| Yeah, on a rifle from 1963. | ||
| From the back of a magazine. | ||
| Yeah, of course that thing could get knocked off easy. | ||
| Like almost instantly, you can knock that thing off. | ||
| There is a thing about the tree, though. | ||
| What about the trick? | ||
| That he had to shoot through a tree because what they've done in a lot of the reenactments, you know, supporting that he was the lone gunman, they did cut out part of the tree that Kennedy's behind. | ||
| They cut it out for the reenactment? | ||
| Yeah, so he would have a clear field of view. | ||
| But he had a clear field of view for at least a brief amount of time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| And that's all you need. | ||
| That's all you need if you were good. | ||
| And if you practice. | ||
| And I'm assuming that if you're going to go shoot the president, you'll probably get used to firing off a few rounds. | ||
| You'll probably set up a target. | ||
| You're not going to just hope that your accuracy is still there for three years ago. | ||
| Yeah, you're going to practice. | ||
| So if you're going to practice, you're going to be even quicker at racking a new round. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| He could have done it. | ||
| I just don't buy it. | ||
| None of the evidence seems to point in that direction, including all the evidence that they try to fabricate. | ||
| Like the magic bullet one is nuts. | ||
| Anybody who's ever shot anything with a bullet who looks at that and believes that went through two people and broke bones. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That looks like it got shot into a swimming pool. | ||
| It doesn't look like it ever hit anything. | ||
| No, and I've had people debate me and taking the side of the magic bullet. | ||
| They're not. | ||
| And look me right in the eyes and believe it. | ||
| And I'm just like, okay, well, cool. | ||
| This is where we have to just. | ||
| They're out of their mind. | ||
| Yeah, we have to walk away. | ||
| They're out of their mind. | ||
| They don't know. | ||
| I could show them, like, let's go take a bone from a cow. | ||
| Let's set up a bone from a cow and I'll shoot it at 100 yards. | ||
| One bone. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Just one. | ||
| Just one bone. | ||
| And let's take a look at that bullet. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| It's not going to look anything like that. | ||
| It's going to be all fucked up. | ||
| And there's the fragments. | ||
| There's missing fragments from the bullet that are in Connolly's wrist that are more fragments that are missing from the actual bullet they're attributing to the wound. | ||
| You can't. | ||
| But they did it. | ||
| That's what's nuts. | ||
| We can't talk about it until the cows come home. | ||
| Do you know about the palm print, though? | ||
| Oh, that they linked the rifle to Oswald because of a palm print on the dock when they went to visit him in the morgue. | ||
| Yeah, they didn't get it until after the autopsy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Huh. | ||
| It wasn't there. | ||
| And then surprise. | ||
| How convenient. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And also, like, says who, says who, his fingerprint was on it. | ||
| You could just say that back then. | ||
| 1963. | ||
| The government says, we found the finger, but Oswald doesn't have a lawyer. | ||
| No one's representing him. | ||
| He's dead. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, no one's going to say, my client is innocent. | ||
| He's fucking dead. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Pin it on him. | ||
| Nobody gives a shit. | ||
| And everybody just mourned the fact that the president was dead. | ||
| And then, you know, all of a sudden you got Lyndon Johnson full steam ahead with Vietnam War. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's nuts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| If you usually look at what happens after the major event, it's like it's things got very different. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| They got very different. | ||
| That's when you really start to see like. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Kennedy was trying to be a real president. | ||
| And they were like, oh, none of that. | ||
| Yeah, it was the Federal Reserve. | ||
| It was Vietnam. | ||
| It was like all these big, like, really important things. | ||
| He wanted to get us out of it. | ||
| He wanted to kill the CIA. | ||
| He wanted to do a lot of things. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they were like, not today, sir. | ||
| And that's the real argument is like, we haven't really had a president since Kennedy. | ||
| Everything after that has been the president's more of a speaker. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| And the giant machine behind it continues to run exactly as it always has. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, and just from where I sit, there's not a lot you can do about it. | ||
| There's nothing you can do. | ||
| You can talk, but look, if they haven't done anything about the Kennedy assassination, you can't do shit. | ||
| No. | ||
| You could put pressure on people, and you definitely can hurt their chances of getting re-elected if people find out that they're very disappointed in you for not supporting this or not telling us about that or lying about this or you were involved in that. | ||
| Yeah, but other than that, like there's not much. | ||
| Not much you can do. | ||
| Yeah, that's why I don't really weigh in anymore. | ||
| It's probably small. | ||
| You know, it feels like, I don't know, it's wasted energy. | ||
| It definitely is a lot of that. | ||
| But it's also like a show. | ||
| You know, you could watch the show. | ||
| Hey, have you heard the, watch the latest episode of the Epstein files? | ||
| Like, what's going on? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah, it turns into a show. | ||
| It's kind of like a show. | ||
| It turns into a parlor game also, you know? | ||
| Right? | ||
| That's how my dad described the OJ case. | ||
| He said, this is like the greatest parlor game ever. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know? | ||
| Boy, I remember watching that verdict on TV live in my apartment with this girl I was dating. | ||
| She was a really sweet girl, and she couldn't believe that he was innocent. | ||
| She didn't understand it. | ||
| She was so confused. | ||
| Yeah, it didn't like it. | ||
| She was like, no. | ||
| No, how? | ||
| She kept putting her hands over her face. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no. | |
| It completely torqued her whole reality. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| I was on a mountaintop in Mexico doing a kind of a low-rent sci-fi film called The Arrival. | ||
| I love that movie. | ||
| Oh, don't say that was a low-rent movie. | ||
| I love that movie. | ||
| You know who turned me out of that movie? | ||
| Dave Foley. | ||
| Dave Foley is a good friend of mine from News Radio. | ||
| When we were on News Radio together, he fucking loved that. | ||
| He goes, this is a so underrated sci-fi movie. | ||
| I'm like, okay, cool. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I checked it out. | ||
| It was great. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| It was the first film that actually incorporated a mashup of puppets and CGI at the same time. | ||
| Because at that point, it was either one or the other. | ||
| And the other hadn't fully really arrived yet. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So that was kind of cool. | ||
| But no, we were, I was so hoping for the day off to be back at the hotel because everybody knew the night before that the verdict was coming. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So we had to shoot this scene. | ||
| And there was a prop man and he had the only, this is 95, right? | ||
| He had the only cell phone and it had like half a bar and it's starting to rain and he's got his ear and his buddy's got his phone in LA up to the TV when they're about to read the verdict. | ||
| So we all gather around the prop man and we're watching him and he's kind of leaning to keep the signal to keep it to kind of keep connected. | ||
| And then we can see when he hears it, he slumps a little bit, right? | ||
| Takes the phone from his ear and slams it into the mud and screams. | ||
| That motherfucker got away with murder. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| His voice like echoed through the mist. | ||
| It was gnarly. | ||
| That's a wild scene. | ||
| That's how I learned about the OJ verdict. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And Dave Anderson was there with me. | ||
| He's a buddy I grew up with. | ||
| He's in the book. | ||
| He's a two-time Oscar-winning FX makeup artist, you know? | ||
| And so, yeah, if you ever run across Dave the Rave, Anderson, ask him about the OJ verdict. | ||
| That's just a crazy scene. | ||
| Imagine a guy reacting like that. | ||
| He was our only connection to it. | ||
| And everybody was so invested in this thing. | ||
| And it was really hard to go. | ||
| And that was like, do you remember time of day that might have happened? | ||
| Kind of late morning, sort of, or was it in the afternoon? | ||
| I don't remember. | ||
| I don't remember at all. | ||
| We still had a pretty sizable day to shoot. | ||
| And it was really hard to regain focus and feel like what we were doing still mattered. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because there was a giant, just there was like a murmur in the universe at that point. | ||
| It felt like something had been taken from us. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Civility. | ||
| Did you see the last or the most recent OJ documentary? | ||
| No. | ||
| It's Murder, Mayhem, and Blood. | ||
| I think it's got three. | ||
| Murder, Mayhem, and Blood. | ||
| Something. | ||
| Murder, Mayhem, and Lies. | ||
| Something. | ||
| I'm probably way off with that title. | ||
| American Mana? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| No, it's actually... | ||
| But it's the latest O.J. documentary? | ||
| Well, I guess Manhunt would be the latest. | ||
| Yeah, this is the one that was before that. | ||
| And it's broken down at the crime scene by two expert veteran recreationists. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's a trip. | ||
| Do you watch any OJ stuff that comes out? | ||
| No? | ||
| No, I try not to. | ||
| Because it's just too weird. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Do you think there was something else there? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, no. | |
| I think he killed his wife. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And he killed Ron Goldman. | ||
| And he got away with it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's just nuts. | ||
| It's just, you know, it's weird. | ||
| You watch him on like naked gun and you're like, that guy? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That guy murdered his wife with a knife? | ||
| Like, what? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then he got away with it, and he's just golfing. | ||
| Yeah, it was a follow-up part that didn't really support anything about what he had claimed. | ||
| You remember when he was a rapper? | ||
| You remember the juices loose? | ||
| You remember that? | ||
| Oh, gosh. | ||
| I think I just willed that one out of my. | ||
| He had like a like a king's robe on and like a bunch of hot ladies around him. | ||
| Okay, it's coming back to me. | ||
| Yeah, he made a rap song. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah, he was like embracing the heel roll at one point in time after the guilty verdict or the not guilty verdict. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| And so he got into like rap. | ||
| But I mean, probably just for just for a monetary gravity. | ||
| I would imagine. | ||
| Let me play it. | ||
| Play the juices loose. | ||
| It's so bad. | ||
| Is it off of YouTube? | ||
| That would be hilarious. | ||
| It was part of a TV show. | ||
| I saw another clip. | ||
| Oh, that's right. | ||
| He has like a prank show. | ||
| He was trying to prank people. | ||
| It's like probably pretty much. | ||
| Jackass? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, but I'm trying to think of the thing they had on MTV that they did with all the celebrities. | |
| Couldn't think of myself. | ||
| Oh, punk. | ||
| Got it. | ||
| OJ was doing that? | ||
| Everybody would just run away pranking. | ||
| Yeah, he did it to a lady. | ||
| He walked up to her hotel room with a knife. | ||
| Oh, my God. | ||
| That was one of his scenes? | ||
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| You got juiced is what it was called. | ||
| You got juiced. | ||
| You got juice. | ||
| Damn. | ||
| But I don't know. | ||
| I'm trying to find this. | ||
| Also, the music video had a bunch of pay-per-view. | ||
| The Spice Channel or something. | ||
| Huh. | ||
| Remember the Spice Channel? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But that whole thing, going from that verdict to going back to work. | ||
| There's a picture. | ||
| Something videoed. | ||
| Oh, my. | ||
| Just the musical. | ||
| Look at that. | ||
| I remember one time we were filming news radio. | ||
| It was in the middle of that North Hollywood shootout. | ||
| Do you remember that? | ||
| I do. | ||
| We were watching it live on TV while trying to do a sitcom. | ||
| And we were like, we probably should take some time off here. | ||
| There's a fucking war going on in the middle of North Hollywood. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I think that involved a lot of cocaine and steroids, too. | ||
| From the brothers? | ||
| From the guys? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| I know they were definitely on steroids. | ||
| But I think there was probably some. | ||
| Or meth. | ||
| Something like that. | ||
| Yeah, I think meth would have kept them there for a lot longer. | ||
| For people who don't know the story, these guys, did they rob a bank? | ||
| Is that what they did? | ||
| Yeah, but waited. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, could have driven away, could have left with all the dough. | ||
| And they decided to get in a shootout with the cops and killed cops, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I mean, and they got killed. | ||
| A bunch of cops got hit. | ||
| And the cops were like horribly outgunned. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| The cops had their nine millimeter pistols and these guys have fucking machine guns and bulletproof vests. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Kevlar helmets and face masks. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Now, do you support that when the dude finally kills himself, that it was a simultaneous sniper shot at the same time? | ||
| I never even looked into that. | ||
| Is that one of the cases? | ||
| Well, it's just, it's, yeah, that's one thing that they claim. | ||
| That he got shot and shot himself at the exact same time. | ||
| At the exact same time. | ||
| It's possible. | ||
| But why would they, like, what does that serve? | ||
| Like, what does that? | ||
| Maybe they were already going to shoot him, and he shot himself, and they didn't think he was going to shoot himself, and they pulled the trigger right when he did. | ||
| Got it. | ||
| That's what I would guess, if that's the case. | ||
| But it's not like they have to be let off the hook because at that point, that dude has to be put down. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, one of the guys had already been shot and he was shot in the leg and they didn't get him any medical help. | ||
| They knew he was going to bleed out. | ||
| You know, I think that was the case. | ||
| I think he got shot in his femoral artery. | ||
| Yeah, the first guy, it says he died by... | ||
| This is from Wikipedia. | ||
| He died by suicide via gunshot to the head from his handgun simultaneously being hit by rifle fire from LAPD officers with one round striking and severing his spine. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| The other guy got shot over 29 times and died from blood loss. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I mean, what are the odds that the... | ||
| Crazy. | ||
| That the thing with the... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's kind of like... | ||
| It sounds like a lot of bullets are flying in his direction. | ||
| Over 2,000 rounds were found. | ||
| Jesus, 300. | ||
| Like, what is that weigh? | ||
| Like, if you're carting that around and you've got a whole duffel of cash. | ||
| Yeah, you must have a heavy trunk. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, that is banana. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Half was the police, but wow. | |
| Imagine being in that neighborhood. | ||
| I think that's right. | ||
| 2,000 rounds are flying in both directions. | ||
| Well, the cops went to a gun store, right? | ||
| Didn't they? | ||
| I think they did. | ||
| Like, right when it started, and they were like, whatever you got. | ||
| You know, give us your biggest boar rifle, you know, whatever you got. | ||
| We'll take it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| How much ammo you got? | ||
| I mean, how long did that go on for? | ||
| About an hour. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| They had homemade body armor. | ||
| SWAT team wasn't ready for that. | ||
| They had to commandeer an armored vehicle to evacuate wounded people. | ||
| Yeah, then they that's that kind of sparked the debate for police to get more power. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Jeez. | |
| Yeah, that was kind of a turning point moment. | ||
| Now, if you're a real conspiracy theorist, then you say, oh, MK Ultra tricked those guys into doing that so that the cops can get better treated. | ||
| Militarized. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Well, this is the problem with conspiracies. | ||
| People attribute them to everything. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Really get down the rabbit hole. | ||
| Everything's a conspiracy. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| But then when they do that, they kind of harm the credibility of the ones that can really be considered for how we know them to be. | ||
| No doubt. | ||
| After all the extensive research. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No doubt. | ||
| Yeah, there's real ones. | ||
| But I think that's also part of the reason why some really silly conspiracy theories get pushed. | ||
| I think they get pushed by bots, and I think they get pushed by paid accounts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
To water down the real ones, to make them look stupid. | |
| And they'll attach them, attach a really stupid conspiracy to one that's legitimate. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And then it discredits the legitimate one. | ||
| Yeah, it's almost like, you know, not to introduce this, but just from afar, it's almost like a lot of the QAnon stuff kind of had that effect. | ||
| Just you know, I didn't dig deep into that and don't, you know, and only know just the just the basic talking points about it. | ||
| But one thing I did see that was felt like a constant was that there was always anytime they'd mentioned something that was just completely screwy, it was followed up with the ones that we believe to be real. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, there's just kind of this big, just kind of just put them all in the same bullshit. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And just stirred that cauldron, you know? | ||
| Yeah, that's a very convenient way to bury truth. | ||
| The QAnon documentary on HBO was great. | ||
| Enter the fire, that was called? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Into something. | ||
| I didn't see it. | ||
| Into the Storm. | ||
| Into the Storm. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| It's really good. | ||
| Is it? | ||
| It's a multi-part thing on all the people that were involved in 4chan and the creation of QAnon. | ||
| Who they think the original guy was, and they think another guy took it over after a while and took over the account. | ||
| Got it. | ||
| And it seems like they were just kind of fucking around at first. | ||
| But it's not definitive. | ||
| Like, he's got some really good evidence that points in that direction, but it's just hard to know. | ||
| And, you know, everyone always thought that it was someone inside the White House. | ||
| There was some secret person inside the White House. | ||
| It doesn't seem like this documentary believes that. | ||
| The guy made this documentary, he pins it on one guy in particular that's a tech nerd that seems to have all of the attributes of someone who could pull off a QAnon type deal. | ||
| Check out the cards. | ||
| Yeah, a super smart, you know, internet shit poster, you know, running 4chan, you know, and like that's the whole thing over there. | ||
| It's like get people to do stuff that's stupid. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like they got women to free bleed. | ||
| They started pushing this idea that you, you know, it's the patriarchy is making you wear a tampon and you should just, your menstrual cycle should just flow in your pants and who cares? | ||
| And this is like a sign of your strong femininity. | ||
| It was just them being crazy. | ||
| And then a bunch of women just adopted it. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Not for long. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's gross. | ||
| They were like, this is stupid. | ||
| Probably lasts a couple weeks. | ||
| But a bunch of women. | ||
| But people are really susceptible. | ||
| You could get people to do that. | ||
| Not everybody. | ||
| But it's just like the Haight Ashbury free clinic thing. | ||
| Not everybody's going to join your cult. | ||
| But if you open up a free clinic, you're going to get enough lost children that come in through your doors. | ||
| Well, they're going to need your legit services to start with. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You got to sort it out. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's just nuts that that's our government. | ||
| That's our daddies, our government daddies, the people that we're supposed to be looking to to help us lead a prosperous life and secure our standing in the world or make sure we grow financially. | ||
| And these motherfuckers did all that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, you know, ultimate power, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| In any form. | ||
| Well, they're bringing it back to stardom. | ||
| Like, that's a weird power to get somebody. | ||
| Especially when you're 21 years old. | ||
| Start over. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's a weird power. | ||
| Weird amount of freedom. | ||
| Weird amount of people expecting you to be kind of wild. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And again, that thing you talked about where you watch it happen to others and then suddenly it's you. | ||
| It's a lot more, it's a lot more intoxicating. | ||
| And then I would always think, okay, so why, why, how were they able to control it? | ||
| Why didn't I see them enjoying it at this level? | ||
| And it wasn't about, I'm going to show them the way they should have been doing it. | ||
| It was just about, hey, guys, okay, cool. | ||
| No, it finally made its way over here and it can go to 11, you know, and not burn the whole house down, you know, when it was still fun, when it was still creative and productive on some level, | ||
| you know, because it wasn't about, it was still having to show up and it was still, you know, carving out enough time for the party, but also reserving enough, you know, energy for the job. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, that's the balance. | ||
| That's the balance. | ||
| And some people pull it off. | ||
| Some people, they're really disciplined and they pull off the work and then they pull off the partying. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| And I was able to maintain that for a long time. | ||
| You know, and even when it flamed out, like those early rehabs and there was always like there was a job like the day I got out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| You know, scripts showing up in rehab. | ||
| And it's like, they're just, they want you to get well. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| They want you to get better. | ||
| But, you know, as soon as you're out of here, you know, we got some good stuff for you to look at. | ||
| There's also, unfortunately, a romantic notion of a guy getting out of rehab. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| How many cop shows start with a guy who's down on his dumps, putting a pizza in a blender for breakfast? | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Like really at his lowest of low points, drinking, and then maybe his daughter cries and he throws the bottles into the trash can and is like, I'm done. | ||
| And now he's back. | ||
| And there's a romantic thing of getting your shit together. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| It's like, Charlie's back, better than ever. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's, it's, you know, everybody's rooting for you again. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they, and they're expecting the guy to deliver with passion now, real-life experience. | ||
| He was a drug addict. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Look at Robert Downey Jr. now. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| People love that. | ||
| They love that. | ||
| But the same thing was happening to Downey when he was in rehab or maybe when he was even in the pen when they people were bringing him. | ||
| I think he was, I think they brought him Allie McBeal when he was still in jail. | ||
| And I don't think, I think he still got high after that. | ||
| You know, and my dad would always be like yelling at the television. | ||
| It's like, stop rewarding this behavior. | ||
| Stop rewarding it. | ||
| Let him sit in those consequences. | ||
| Not out of judgment or out of punishment or just out of love. | ||
| To help him get his shit together. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| If you keep letting them fuck up over and over again, they'll continue to fuck up. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But if there's always a carrot the day you walk out, you know, something to something to chase and a soft landing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You know, that's what was really interesting about this, you know, this decades, decade-long timeout that I got put into, you know. | ||
| Which, you know, at some point the punishment has to sort of fit the crime, right? | ||
| And yeah, it felt like it was a little bit longer than it was. | ||
| It should have been, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I don't remember any murder charges, you know. | ||
| But at the same time, there's not a chance that I could have done the two projects that I've that, wow, the book came out yesterday and the doc comes out today, you know. | ||
| I couldn't have done either unless I had the kind of perspective and distance from all of that that I was able to get, to find, you know? | ||
| You've been sober for how long? | ||
| Seven years? | ||
| Coming up on eight. | ||
| Eight years. | ||
| Yeah, it'll be eight in December. | ||
| That probably helped a lot to be away from everything for you to achieve that. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I mean, I was still doing things to, you know, just kind of stay in the mix a little bit. | ||
| And, you know, I do signings, I do speaking engagements, do stuff like that. | ||
| But it was also like, it's like as soon as I quit drinking, all my kids started showing up again. | ||
| And, you know, Sam and Lola were living there. | ||
| And then they'd cycle back with Denise. | ||
| And then Bob and Max would show up. | ||
| And then Brooke would come back and like, okay, so he's going to be here. | ||
| And then Lola would show back up. | ||
| So my house was kind of like, it's kind of like this. | ||
| It was like a clubhouse, you know? | ||
| And I write in the book that my vacancy sign, you know, for those children always hangs facing out, you know? | ||
| So it was, you know, being called to a much more responsible and complicated set of responsibilities and order, you know, and just having to do stuff that they didn't care about, you know, writing of a show or a response to a movie or any popularity or IMDB stuff. | ||
| They were just like, you know, with the basic needs and getting to school and help with this. | ||
| And so it was really cool to suddenly just be that that's the only stuff that that that that mattered to the people that mattered the most. | ||
| And so and and yeah, but you're right. | ||
| None of that could have happened if I was away on location or having to be at a studio every week. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But yeah, I think it's, it was about the time that it that it created, you know, so and and it's interesting that that I'm not I'm not like I'm not looking at this as a as a comeback, you know. | ||
| It's uh it's it's a I think it's a reset. | ||
| I think it's a reset, you know. | ||
| And I didn't, I didn't, I didn't rely on anything that I'd done before. | ||
| Never written a book, never done a documentary, you know, but to come back with two projects that everybody seems to be really excited about. | ||
| Documentary is very entertaining. | ||
| Awesome. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| It's very entertaining. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| It's really well done. | ||
| Like the way it's put together. | ||
| And it's just so the stories are fucking bananas. | ||
| It's so bananas. | ||
| The whole thing was just so nuts. | ||
| But, you know, like I said, everybody loves the story of someone getting their shit together. | ||
| And that's a great accomplishment of being sober for almost eight years. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And, you know, it's people are going to yell at me because of how I deal with the AA in the book. | ||
| And that's fine. | ||
| I just speak to my personal experiences. | ||
| How do you deal with it? | ||
| That I tried it for a long time for a combined 21 years and just decided that I had to give this a go on my own. | ||
| So you just do it completely on your own? | ||
| You don't have any person to call or anything? | ||
| No. | ||
| I mean, there's people that are sober that I still talk to and see. | ||
| But you don't have a sponsor or something like that. | ||
| I don't. | ||
| I don't. | ||
| No. | ||
| No. | ||
| I know it does help some people. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| And that's why I don't want to say that it's, I'm not recommending that this is another putting. | ||
| I'm just saying your truth. | ||
| This is how you do it. | ||
| I had a very good friend who was an alcoholic who quit one day. | ||
| He crashed his car, ran from the cops on foot, got arrested, and then he's like, what am I doing with my life? | ||
| I'm done. | ||
| Hey, quit. | ||
| Like that day. | ||
| That there, then. | ||
| Never had a drink again. | ||
| I knew him for 20 years. | ||
| It happens. | ||
| It can happen. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I, but I think that I do have the experience of all of that time in and around the rooms, you know? | ||
| And that's not to say that I don't still remember a couple of nuggets, a couple of things that still stuck with me that I still thought you still see as valuable. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know? | ||
| But there's a line in the book that it's hard to ask for help when somebody else has raised your hand for you. | ||
| You know, interventions. | ||
| You're pulled into a thing. | ||
| All you're doing is just counting the days. | ||
| Yeah, that's the part of the documentary, too, when the first intervention, when you got brought into a room and everybody's sitting there waiting for you. | ||
| You thought it was a party. | ||
| Well, yeah, I mean, that's a little suspicious because it's 9 a.m. | ||
| Why is dad having a 9 a.m. birthday party? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Unless we're going to Magic Mountain, right? | ||
| That's usually the time you leave. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But that's easy for a seven-year-old, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, no, that was wild. | ||
| That is something that I can still see as it happened on the day. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| Turning that corner in the hallway into my parents' living room. | ||
| And my brain is still trying to turn it into a birthday party. | ||
| My brain insisted that that's what we're there for. | ||
| You know, that's funny. | ||
| And it just, when it starts to dawn on you, like, have you ever taken a sip of something that was in the wrong bottle, but your brain saw the label. | ||
| And so it takes your body to catch up to that's not, those don't match. | ||
| Those don't match. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I have a story about that, but I probably shouldn't tell it anymore. | ||
| But yeah. | ||
| So that one didn't work. | ||
| It didn't work that way. | ||
| You had to do it on your own. | ||
| It worked for a year. | ||
| It worked for a year. | ||
| But then, like, as is in the dock, I'm at Cage's house and on the anniversary, on the one year, I find that beer in his fridge. | ||
| I'm like, well, that's there for a reason. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This caused us to celebrate. | ||
| That's not an accident. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And just didn't even think twice. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Just was like, ah, finally. | ||
| Boom. | ||
| And now we're off to the race. | ||
| We're off to the races. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| How did you get sober this time? | ||
| I'd gotten off the drugs, gotten off the dope. | ||
| When I say dope, that's always Coke. | ||
| Never heroin. | ||
| I was never a heroin guy. | ||
| I'd been off that, geez, probably over 10 years, you know? | ||
| And so, I mean, more than 10 years, like sitting here today. | ||
| So I hadn't fucked around with any of that shit for a few years. | ||
| I was just, I was, I just committed to drinking, you know, and then found that to be like the most unmanageable drug that I've ever tried to navigate. | ||
| Drinking. | ||
| Drinking, yeah, drinking. | ||
| More than cocaine. | ||
| Yeah, because there's never a time when you can't get it, you know. | ||
| And when I had made the decision that I, okay, I'm just going to drink, I treated it like I did drugs, you know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But it it's it's it's it's it's really kind of it's it's very accepted and it's it's it's it's very socially ingrained. | ||
| You know, it's like it's any yeah, it's always melt time. | ||
| Yeah, you want to smoke a joint in front of someone, they might be like, hey, what are you going on here? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You want to have a drink in front of someone, completely normal. | ||
| Everyone does it. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But so I knew the way my body was starting to react and that the way I was starting to feel and just it just I couldn't feel it how I used to, even at like really like powerful doses. | ||
| You know, I just couldn't. | ||
| And that got depressing. | ||
| That wasn't like, I'll just drink twice as much now. | ||
| That was like, damn, the thing I relied on is now just like told me. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's no. | ||
| You're too much of a tolerance. | ||
| Our relationship is now different. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And so there was a day and it's in the book. | ||
| And I, I, you know, I was a morning drinker. | ||
| I loved, you know, spiking my coffee. | ||
| That's like, for me, it was like the best time to drink. | ||
| I mean, you're not going to get shit done the rest of the day, but that's when I felt it. | ||
| That's when I could still feel it was in the morning, you know? | ||
| So I'm on like my third McAllen coffee or whatever. | ||
| And my daughter Sam like calls from, she's at the house and calls and says, hey, what time are we leaving? | ||
| Like to go where? | ||
| She had a hair appointment and it was a Sunday, I think, or a Saturday. | ||
| And I've never, ever mixed the cups and the wheel ever. | ||
| I've never had a DUI. | ||
| How about that? | ||
| That's awesome. | ||
| That's pretty good, right? | ||
| I just decided like a long time ago, like when I was like 17, that that was never going to happen. | ||
| Good for you. | ||
| And I was living in a limo back then. | ||
| There was, you know, the occasional cab, but these days, these days to get busted for drinking and driving with the available transportation that is literally 15 choices in your hand, there's no excuse. | ||
| And so I called Tony. | ||
| I said, Tony, you know, I can't drive. | ||
| You've got to help me get Sam to this thing. | ||
| And so he was like, I'll be right here in 20 minutes. | ||
| We got her to the appointment. | ||
| It went great. | ||
| And there was a moment in the car driving back. | ||
| And I describe it in the book, you know, and I could see her in two mirrors, the visor and the side view. | ||
| And she was just kind of sitting back there. | ||
| And I'm not saying that I know exactly what she was thinking, but I could feel what I'm pretty sure she was. | ||
| And it was just this thing about, you know, why it's, yeah, it's cool that dad did this, but why isn't dad driving again? | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, why is there always... | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's not nothing with Tony. | ||
| You know, he's been around forever. | ||
| And, you know, and so we got back from that. | ||
| And there was something that I couldn't shake. | ||
| It was something that stayed with me. | ||
| Just the images of her, this little 13-year-old kid in the back seat. | ||
| And her dad can't even take her to like a just basic, just like up the highway to a hair appointment. | ||
| Like that, that got, that was complicated, you know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I was like, what am I doing? | ||
| And then I just sat inside. | ||
| I sat inside of that for a while because it didn't feel good. | ||
| And I thought, okay, what can I do to not stop feeling like this? | ||
| The math is pretty simple at that point, you know? | ||
| And I wasn't going to do a rehab. | ||
| I wasn't going to do a big dramatic life turnaround. | ||
| I was just going to just make a decision and stick to it. | ||
| And I took a few volume, drank a few beers, and then the next day, just woke up and said, I'm done. | ||
| And didn't care. | ||
| I didn't, I made a decision. | ||
| I wasn't going to care how I felt physically. | ||
| Was just going to like just. | ||
| Grit and bear. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| How long did it take before you felt okay? | ||
| About three days. | ||
| The story I had written that was going to be a month was just like that that was fake. | ||
| And it was, and so, and then just coincidentally, it happened to be my oldest daughter, Cassandra's birthday when I quit, December 12th, you know? | ||
| It was just like, okay, that's all aligned. | ||
| And then something else happened after that because everybody's going to get a little squirrely. | ||
| Like it can put the problem with a guy like me is that, and people like me is you're able to put things back together really quickly. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And kind of just kind of reassemble the pieces. | ||
| So you're not as scared to go off the rails. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| And so then I got a call. | ||
| This is the post, you know, already had HIV for several years at this point. | ||
| I get a call that there's a new medicine, right? | ||
| This is about a month after the Sam thing, right? | ||
| And they're like, look, we want you to try this thing because it's a much smaller cocktail. | ||
| It's much less toxicity and very few side effects. | ||
| We think you're going to do great on it, right? | ||
| They said, but you can't drink on it. | ||
| The other one, you could drink your fucking face off. | ||
| You could drink like a pirate on the other one, which they shouldn't have told me that you can. | ||
| And so I said, okay, great. | ||
| So I tried that one. | ||
| And it was working great. | ||
| But they said, okay, if you can just stay off the booze, it's going to keep working the light, light, light like it is, you know? | ||
| So this other thing showed up in addition to that, like just in concert with it. | ||
| So now I had a couple things going on. | ||
| Let's keep this thing, this evil stowaway is what I like to call it. | ||
| Let's keep that thing in the, you know, at bay. | ||
| And let's, you know, rebuild every relationship that matters in your life, you know, while you're still here. | ||
| Did you have a revelation after a while after you were sober for a while where you stop and think like, why was I getting so fucked up? | ||
| Like, what was I, what was I trying to avoid? | ||
| Or what was I trying to enhance? | ||
| Or what was the purpose? | ||
| Like, what was I, what, what bothered me so much that I couldn't be sober? | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think, yeah, I think it was more avoid earlier, like earlier in life, like avoid the pressures of fame, avoid the fears of commitment or relationship or being exposed as a fucking fraud at some point, you know. | ||
| I think that was earlier. | ||
| And I think enhance came later, that trying to just make situations just feel more exciting or cooler or or more you know sexier or you know what i'm saying like yeah but it's interesting that you presented both sides of that you know avoid enhance yeah yeah i i i i relate to both you know um yeah i think that's a good thing to tell people too | ||
| because everybody wants to hear the drugs. | ||
| Like Bill Hicks had a great joke about nobody ever hears great drug stories. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You only hear the bad ones. | ||
| And it is true. | ||
| But the reason why people do it is because it's fun. | ||
| Like it can ruin your life, but it's also really fun. | ||
| That's why people do it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| It's important for people to know because you don't want them to think you're lying to them. | ||
| And for them to hear you sober and happy and go, okay, that's possible. | ||
| You can get there because this guy is admitting what getting high was. | ||
| There's a scene in the documentary where you're talking about the first time you smoked crack where this girl is giving you a blowjob while you're smoking crack. | ||
| It was like the greatest feeling of all time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think that's important to say. | ||
| That hasn't been topped. | ||
| I probably shouldn't say that. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That hasn't been topped. | ||
| Have you ever heard Hunter Biden talk about crack? | ||
| I haven't. | ||
| No. | ||
| He was on that Channel 5 show and he gives this ode to crack that made me want to immediately go smoke crack. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Seriously. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Because Hunter Biden is a very smart guy. | ||
| I don't think people think of him that way because of the laptop thing, but he's very intelligent. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And very articulate. | ||
| So when he's explaining like the effects of crack and how different it is and how incredible it is and the euphoria of it. | ||
| And it's like, he's literally saying that he's like getting the itch while he's sitting there sober, you know, working on his sobriety, trying to keep it together. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Interesting. | |
| After all, publicly shamed for being out of control and talking about crack like a lover that you lost in a drowning accident. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| It's crazy. | ||
| I get that. | ||
| I get that. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| I bet you do. | ||
| There's a moment in the dock where I tell the Sandy story. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And I say, wow, that one actually got me kind of, I could feel that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's the problem. | ||
| The problem is it's great. | ||
| That's the problem. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The problem is. | ||
| Did you ever try it or no? | ||
| No. | ||
| I never even did coke. | ||
| Oh, you never? | ||
| Oh. | ||
| Nope. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| No. | ||
| When I was in high school, I have a good buddy of mine and his cousin was selling coke. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And his cousin who was super normal, I knew him forever, great guy, super cool guy. | ||
| All of a sudden, he became weird and pale and lost all this weight. | ||
| And it was like he got bit by a vampire. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| And him and his girlfriend were selling coke and they would just watch TV and do coke. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And they had like this attic apartment and it was like he had gotten bit by a vampire. | ||
| That's how it felt like to me. | ||
| It was like he just lost his whole life to coke. | ||
| And then I saw some other kids that had coke problems around me where they were just dying to get coke. | ||
| And I was like, this is a bad drug. | ||
| And back then, I think it was actually coke. | ||
| You know? | ||
| I don't even know if they were-Yeah, at least like 80% of it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| In the 1980s, I don't know if they were cutting it with anything. | ||
| But I made a decision at one point in time in my life, no, I don't want to have nothing to do with that one. | ||
| That one seems to rob people's lives. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| And you just stuck to that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It just seemed to me like that one can make you a loser. | ||
| And then did you roll in circles over the years where it was prevalent? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I knew some people that did coke. | ||
| It never worked out well. | ||
| I didn't know anybody who did coke who like kept their life together. | ||
| Everybody who did Coke was like barely together, barely hanging on, always off the rails. | ||
| I think there's like one guy. | ||
| One guy out there, some superhero. | ||
| He maintained it all those years was Jack Nicholson. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| I think he's the only guy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, do we know of anybody else? | ||
| Well, they might not be public about it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know. | ||
| But what about the rumors that Jack always traveled with like a doctor? | ||
| Have you ever heard this shit? | ||
| Have you heard these stories? | ||
| No. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No? | |
| No. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| That he had a doctor that carried his Coke or distributed. | ||
| That's amazing. | ||
| And only gave him just what he needed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Yeah, no, I don't know. | ||
| I mean, that's some movie star shit right there. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| You get a doctor with a fucking leather satchel to carry your Coke around. | ||
| Yeah, and it's just, he's just close to that. | ||
| I'd make him wear a stethoscope everywhere you go, bro. | ||
| He has to. | ||
| You need to have a stethoscope on. | ||
| Everybody's got to know you're legit. | ||
| Yeah, but that's like, that's one of the great 80s rumors about Jack. | ||
| That's funny. | ||
| I never heard that rumor. | ||
| He's some guy. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| But then you'd be around Jack. | ||
| I was only around him a few times, but then, you know, he was cruel as hell. | ||
| And you're always kind of looking like, all right, who's the bag man? | ||
| Who's his guy? | ||
| Where is he? | ||
| Or who's the bag man for that night? | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, was it a team of doctors that rotated? | ||
| Dangerfield partied till the end. | ||
| Yeah, he did. | ||
| He kept that trailer rolling. | ||
| Yeah, he did. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| We lived in the same building for a while. | ||
| You in Dangerfield? | ||
| Yeah, we did. | ||
| No, it's that building in the book called the Wilshire on Wilshire. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| Gosh, I maybe saw him twice. | ||
| I got in the elevator with him one time, and we'd seen each other out, but never really had like an elevator moment. | ||
| And he goes, hey, kid, how you doing? | ||
| You look great. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And he's like, he goes, look at that. | |
| Yeah, these guys together with Kittison. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| But in the elevator. | ||
| Look at Rod. | ||
| He looks funny just in his photo. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Just in the photo, you start laughing. | ||
| Doing nothing. | ||
| He was so good, dude. | ||
| I can't tell you what happened that night. | ||
| I don't know where we were. | ||
| But it looks like the jacket is definitely circa 8990. | ||
| That looks like a backstage something that's on my jacket, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Probably at a poison concert or something. | ||
| Perhaps. | ||
| So we're in the elevator. | ||
|
unidentified
|
He says, Hey, kid, what are you, Puerto Rican, right? | |
| And I, and I said, no, I'm Spanish-Irish. | ||
| And he says, ah, you don't know whether to start a parade or start a war. | ||
| And it's like doors open and he just walks out. | ||
| He just had that on standby or built it in the moment. | ||
| He probably built it in the moment. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I was just like, so I can't really ever describe my heritage without hearing his voice, you know. | ||
| Start a parade or start a war. | ||
| That's funny. | ||
| I'm just like, wow. | ||
| He just left me with that gold, you know. | ||
| We have his handwritten notes at our comedy club in the green room. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| For one of his tonight show appearances. | ||
| So we have his handwritten notes framed to all the stuff he's going to talk about. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| It's pretty cool. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And would he stick to his jokes and he had like the punchlines for like accented bold letters. | ||
| Oh, seriously. | ||
| He wrote it all out darker. | ||
| So it was, he was like super organized. | ||
| Yeah, super organized. | ||
| Well, he stopped doing stand-up for a long time and he was selling aluminum siding. | ||
| And then he made it again when he was much older in life. | ||
| He came back and the thing that happened was from the time he stopped doing stand-up to when he went back to having a regular job, he never stopped writing jokes. | ||
| Like his brain just worked that way. | ||
| So he was just always writing jokes. | ||
| So when he came back. | ||
| He was sitting on a treasure truck. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Wow. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And he just fucking stormed the gates. | ||
| When he came back, everybody's like, where's this guy been? | ||
| That's amazing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And then he became huge. | ||
| Back to school and the Ronnie Dangerfield HBO comedy specials. | ||
| That's epic. | ||
| Oh, he's one of the all-time. | ||
| So he came back doing stand-up. | ||
| I think he was in his 40s. | ||
| Got some heat again. | ||
| And that activated the films. | ||
| Yeah, well, the stand-up, he didn't have any heat before, but when he quit, you know, he was just kind of like getting by and doing all right and got a job, quit. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I think he might have quit for 10 years. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And then the whole time he's writing. | ||
| And then he's like, fuck it, I got to do this. | ||
| And then got back into comedy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| I hope I'm not fucking that story up, but I think I'm accurate with that. | ||
| See if you can find it. | ||
| Make sure that's true. | ||
| I'm 90% sure that's true. | ||
| But I know that he didn't make it until he was in his 40s. | ||
| And I told this the other day, but I'll tell it again. | ||
| I used to work at Greatwood Center for the Performing Arts in Mansfield, Massachusetts. | ||
| I was a security guy there. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And I was backstage by the outside of the backstage. | ||
| And Rodney Dangerfield would go on stage completely naked with a bathrobe on. | ||
| That's what he would wear. | ||
| And he was wearing a bathrobe backstage with slippers and just walking around. | ||
| I was like, this guy's wild. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| And they're like, he goes on stage like that. | ||
| I'm like, shut the fuck up. | ||
| Was it partially closed at least? | ||
| Or it was just wild. | ||
| Yeah, it was closed. | ||
| He wasn't letting everybody see his dick. | ||
| But if you went to the green room, you were seeing his dick. | ||
| Because he's sitting there. | ||
| He'd just sit there. | ||
| His dick would be hanging out. | ||
| He didn't care. | ||
| He struggled financially for nine years, one performing as a singing waiter until he was fired before taking a job selling aluminum siding in the mid-50s to support his wife and family. | ||
| He later quipped. | ||
| So in the 1960s, he started reviving his career. | ||
| Oh, damn. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So somewhere close to 10 years. | ||
| Still working as a salesman by day. | ||
| He returned to the stage performing at hotels in the Catskills Mountains, but still finding minimal success. | ||
| He fell into debt, about $20,000 by his own estimate, could get booked. | ||
| Dangerfield came to realize what he lacked was an image, a well-defined on-stage persona that the audience could relate to, one that would distinguish him from other comics. | ||
| After being shunned by some premier comedy venues, he returned home where he began developing a character for whom nothing goes right. | ||
| Isn't that crazy? | ||
| Wow. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Damn. | ||
| Oh, look at this. | ||
| During Roy's comeback bid, who's Roy? | ||
| When he was 19, he was Jack Roy. | ||
| Oh. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So he had to change his name. | |
| He had to become Rodney Dangerfield. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| People recognize him. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I want to use that checking in at hotels from now on. | ||
| Wanting to distinguish himself and longtime patrons who might have remembered him from the 1940s, Roy asked club owner George McFadden to change his name. | ||
| He came up with Rodney Dangerfield. | ||
| Wow, he didn't want people to remember him as Jack Roy from back in the day. | ||
| He didn't like his old act. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| He said, I don't know where it came from. | ||
| McFadden may have taken it from the Jack Benny program on NBC Radio, which first used Rodney Dangerfield as a character's name in 1941. | ||
| Ricky Nelson also used the pseudonym in a 1962 episode of The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
| Man, that Tullivan Show 1967. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| That's when he popped again. | ||
| That's amazing. | ||
| That's nuts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Go get him. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Maybe he didn't know whether to start a parade or start a war. | ||
| He was a fun guy. | ||
| I knew a lot of people who knew him. | ||
| I didn't get a chance to meet him. | ||
| I saw him once at the Laugh Factor. | ||
| I ran into him. | ||
| I said hi, but that was it. | ||
| I never really got a chance to talk to him. | ||
| So you did have a moment. | ||
| Yeah, one moment. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| He was just leaving the stage. | ||
| He was outside and he had some. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Hot MILF with him. | ||
| Awesome. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| I was like, you go, Rodney. | ||
| Why not? | ||
| Why not? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think it was probably his wife. | |
| His wife donated us these handwritten notes and also the photograph of them, too. | ||
| It's pretty cool. | ||
| It's just, there's a few guys like that that, you know, without them, you always wonder, like, where would comedy be? | ||
| Like, where would it ever turn up? | ||
| Like, so many people, like Pryor and him, and Lenny Bruce, so many people that just, like, changed everything. | ||
| Carlin? | ||
| Carlin. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So many people just chained Kinnison. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| They just changed the whole thing. | ||
| But Dangerfield was one of the rare ones that introduced new comics to people. | ||
| Like those, that's where everybody found out about Kinnison. | ||
| That's where everybody found out about Dice Clay, Don Marreira, Lenny Clark, all these guys, Robert Schimmel, they all started out on the Rodney Dangerfield HBO comedy specials. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So he would have like have his favorite comedians. | ||
| He would just have like a show where he would introduce his favorite comedians. | ||
| But he'd have to scout them at the clubs. | ||
| He would go see them. | ||
| So he'd just go out. | ||
| And he had his own club in New York City, Dangerfields. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| But he was, you know, he was interested in promoting comedy, too. | ||
| You know, he was just a fucking amazing guy. | ||
| That's such a cool moment you had with him. | ||
| I can see it. | ||
| I mean, it's like there's nothing tricky about that memory. | ||
| You know. | ||
| What was it like being with your dad while he was filming Apocalypse Now? | ||
| It was, there was a lot of that in the book. | ||
| How old were you? | ||
| I went there as a 10-year-old. | ||
| Yeah, had my 11th birthday there. | ||
| Spent a combined total of eight or nine months there. | ||
| And that was going back and forth. | ||
| It wasn't just another country. | ||
| It was another planet. | ||
| We'd seen different parts of the world traveling with him, Mexico, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, places like that. | ||
| But then you get to the Philippines and it was just you just got a sense that, wow, this is all going on at the same time that we've been in Malibu, like kind of having fun and just doing cool shit. | ||
| And so you visit a place like that and get in the middle of it and engage in this entirely just a new, such a surreal reality. | ||
| And then, oh, wait a minute, they're here to make a movie. | ||
| And it's about a film that's a film about a war that barely ended like a year ago, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| 14 months ago when it's Saigon Fall, 75. | ||
| Right? | ||
| I think so. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And I mean, it was like right at the tail end of it. | ||
| And so, yeah, it was, we, you know, we were able to do enough stuff like recreationally, you know, there was a lake and you could water ski, you could fish, you could do those kind of things if you didn't want to go to the set with dad. | ||
| But once you went and saw the set where dad was, you didn't give a fuck about water sports or fish or anything because what they'd built and what they were trying to create was mind-blowing because, you know, Coppola built Kurt's compound out of practical materials. | ||
| It wasn't like, you know, like plaster-covered chicken wire and rebar. | ||
| These were like, you know, two-ton boulders they brought in and started stacking in the jungle. | ||
| And, you know, then a lot of it would start sinking. | ||
| Couldn't build a foundation in a riverbank, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| But then just the mix of people and the talent and Dennis Hopper and Brando and Duvall. | ||
| And it just, it was, every day felt completely unique. | ||
| There was not, there was no, you'd go to the set and you were going to see something completely different than what you saw the day before. | ||
| It was wild. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And I gravitated towards this gentleman named Fred Blau, who I mentioned in the book. | ||
| He was the key makeup artist, you know, FX guy. | ||
| And so he was building all the prosthetics for all the carnage you see in the movie. | ||
| You know, so I'd walk into his shop and there was the arms and legs and heads. | ||
| But I knew it was all fake. | ||
| You know? | ||
| So as a 10-year-old, when you start seeing how it's made and, you know, so gore, I think I write in the book, was never, gore in movies was never emotional. | ||
| It was technical. | ||
| You know? | ||
| But still kept me really curious about how it was done and just the artisans behind it that could create those effects. | ||
| How long were you over there for? | ||
| A total of eight months. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Maybe nine. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it was three. | ||
| It was 10 years old. | ||
| Yeah, it was three at first and then maybe four at first. | ||
| And then we went back and then dad has the heart attack and then we went back and stayed for like another four or four months. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So, yeah, it was, and people say, so, you know, growing up on sets, you must have like dreamed about being an actor. | ||
| And I'm like, yeah, until I got to the set that almost killed my dad. | ||
| You know, that's not a job. | ||
| You're just going to like wrap your arms around and say, when can I start? | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But it also, just the scope of the filmmaking was really exciting. | ||
| And, you know, I didn't really understand it as a 10 or 11 year old. | ||
| But I knew there was something about it that required a much closer look. | ||
| And I had a very keen interest in just what would it take to build this reality, this fake reality. | ||
| Oh, but wait, the subject is based in reality, but everything else around it is fake. | ||
| So that's a very strange experience for a 10-year-old. | ||
| It is, yeah. | ||
| On such a grand scale. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| When it becomes what Apocalypse Now became. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because it was like a culturally defining moment. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I mean, it's a movie that it kind of eclipses all other war movies. | ||
| It does. | ||
| It really does. | ||
| It does. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't think there's been a film like it before or since. | ||
| I think. | ||
| No, it's a true masterpiece. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And there's no computers. | ||
| There's nothing generated. | ||
| It's all had to be there on the day. | ||
| And when you watch that, you know, when Kilgore takes the beachhead, that chopper assault. | ||
| I mean, when you look at just what they had, what they committed to to bring that to the screen, it's just, it's impossible. | ||
| And then you see some of the documentary stuff about he was like, those were on loan from the Philippine Army. | ||
| And then like midday, they had to go fight the rebels somewhere else. | ||
| And they told Francis, we got to leave now with the choppers. | ||
| And he's like, I have 18 cameras set up. | ||
| The whole, the river is filled with bombs. | ||
| Where are you going? | ||
| We'll see you tomorrow. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Stuff like that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Pretty wild. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But that must have like for you to eventually become an actor in platoon. | ||
| That had to be kind of surreal. | ||
| How does that happen? | ||
| Right. | ||
| How does that happen? | ||
| How does that happen 11 years later? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or 10. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because I did platoon at 20. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| So how do I go back to the same country 10 years later with the same subject, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Narrate the fucking thing. | ||
| And then it's elevated to be on par with the one that's the only films that gets mentioned in the same breath as Apocalypse Now when it comes to war films. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'm a much bigger fan of Apocalypse than Platoon and that is primarily about just the scope and the complication and just what, you know, difficulty factor. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Difficulty factor. | ||
| It took forever. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| How many years did it take? | ||
|
unidentified
|
It was like eight or nine years, right? | |
| I don't know when Francis conceived it. | ||
| It came out in 79. | ||
| I think it did it come out in August of 79? | ||
| How many, let's just Google how many years is this? | ||
| August 79. | ||
| How many years did it take to make Apocalypse Now? | ||
| I think it went way over budget. | ||
| Oh, it did. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| And by today's standards, that's like a Fox searchlight budget. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know? | ||
| And Lawrence Fishburne was like, what? | ||
| How old was he at the time? | ||
| He started the film at 14. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Photography started March of 76. | |
| And it came out in 79? | ||
| It was originally due to be released on Coppola's 38th birthday of April 77. | ||
| So it took two extra years. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And imagine. | ||
| So when was it? | ||
| When did the project start? | ||
| I mean, varying times of discussions. | ||
| Casting started February 76 is when Steve McQueen dropped out. | ||
| So it's not as many years as I thought it was. | ||
| They shot with Harvey Keitel for a few weeks as Willard. | ||
| Did you know that? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| No. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then Francis, it just made the wrong choice. | ||
| Harvey was doing it, you know, whatever he could. | ||
| But Francis just saw it differently and had met dad during the Godfather auditions and said, let me meet with Marty. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| You can tell people that don't really know my dad that well, call him Marty. | ||
| I run into people in the street and they're like, hey, give Marty my best. | ||
| And I'm like, who the fuck is Marty? | ||
| People call him Martin. | ||
| No. | ||
| They know him better. | ||
| Well, people that pretend to know someone always like to throw a Y on the end of it. | ||
| Makes it tight. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I would be like, Chucky. | ||
| You're still Charlie. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| But I would be like, Joey. | ||
| Joey, my gosh. | ||
| I could never think of you as a Joey. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No. | ||
| But imagine this with Apocalypse. | ||
| So I spend that much time. | ||
| There's all that shit that happened. | ||
| I even brought home like props and things, you know, severed hands and ifigow jewelry and all this cool shit, right? | ||
| And all these great stories. | ||
| And then didn't have anything tangible to back any of it. | ||
| I mean, mom took a lot of photos, but like nobody could go to the theater and then see, oh, yeah, Charlie talked about that. | ||
| Oh, yeah, he was there that day. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And we had to wait. | ||
| When you're that age, you know, waiting two or three years, like waiting a decade, right? | ||
| So that was kind of a trip. | ||
| But when I saw it at the Center Amidome in 70mm, you know, and it's like, man, when those choppers, when you hear them, when you hear just they're all around you. | ||
| A film will never open like that again and have that kind of an impact. | ||
| I mean, did you see it at the dome when you first saw it? | ||
| No, no. | ||
| I don't remember where I first saw it. | ||
| I first saw it, I think, on a regular TV at home. | ||
| Oh, shit. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| You know, because I was too little to watch it in 79. | ||
| Is that what it was? | ||
| Maybe I saw it when it came out on HBO or something like that for the first time. | ||
| But when I really got into it was when I got a home theater and I got surround sound and I got Apocalypse Redo, Apocalypse Now Redo, the newly mastered one. | ||
| Got it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| It's fucking sensational. | ||
| So you finally had that experience. | ||
| Oh my God. | ||
| It's so good. | ||
| I was like, this movie is wild. | ||
| It's so well done. | ||
| And it's just so epic. | ||
| For you to have been there live while they were putting that together and then to see it all pieced together. | ||
| I mean, that had to be an insane experience. | ||
| Well, and a lot of it was a surprise seeing it on the screen because like I talk about in the book, not so much in the dock, it was hard to get close to the action on Apocalypse because of the way the sets were constructed, because of the way, you know, Francis had everything lit. | ||
| It was super claustrophobic, like in Kurtz's Temple and Compound and places like that. | ||
| And it was also fucking dangerous to be on that set. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| Snakes and shit. | ||
| And just like a lot of weird people. | ||
| And so, yeah, Francis was just like, I'm one Kamal, you know. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| But yeah, so then it's like I wasn't there for any of the chopper assault. | ||
| I could see Hopper at a distance in that outfit with those cameras walking with dad. | ||
| I couldn't hear what he was saying. | ||
| So to then see that scene where, you know, dad first steps off the boat at the compound and Hopper has that incredible monologue. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, you got the cigarettes. | ||
| That's what I've been dreaming about. | ||
| And it's just like, so to have that, that kind of that, that, to have been there that long and still be a completely fresh cinematic experience was a trip. | ||
| Did you ever get imposter syndrome like when you were doing Platoon? | ||
| Did you ever get like, how the fuck am I here? | ||
| Because it's so quick between you being 10, being in the jungle while they're filming Apocalypse Now, to you starring in Platoon. | ||
| Had you settled into that? | ||
| Or were you ever like, how the fuck do I deserve this? | ||
| One of the things that John Cryer says in the documentary thing. | ||
| He might be around to say that. | ||
| It's very insightful. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's very insightful. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| He said that you probably feel like you don't deserve all this, so you fuck it all up. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| He's not wrong. | ||
| He's not wrong. | ||
| But, and then I had a comment in some interview the other day, and I said, well, what the fuck, John? | ||
| You kind of like laid that on me like, you know, a couple decades sooner, man. | ||
| Great advice. | ||
| However. | ||
| A little late. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, but you can't tell anybody that. | ||
| They have to kind of figure it out. | ||
| They do. | ||
| But the thing about Platoon and when it happened, the good news is that I had done enough film work, you know, not like super memorable films, except maybe parts of Red Dawn, I think, are pretty memorable. | ||
| Just, you know, what the film kind of, you know, what it stood for, what it was about. | ||
| I think parts of Bueller were kind of memorable first Bueller, right? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| But yeah, so it was just sort of getting more comfortable in front of a camera, more comfortable sort of, you know, being able to think on film and actually, you know, breathe on film. | ||
| I know that sounds kind of like actor schmacktery, but it's actually a thing because you're talking about controlling your breath in every other area of life. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And it's the same is true as an actor. | ||
| Yeah, for sure. | ||
| Even doing the show, even doing two and a half for that first scene, I was usually off. | ||
| I was usually like about to make an entrance from somewhere and I'd be back there and chain smoke and, you know, Marlboro Reds and just trying to figure out the first scene. | ||
| But then when you'd hear the, you'd hear that you'd hear the stage go quiet, right? | ||
| Somebody else, you know, speeding sound market. | ||
| And then if I could get that last breath to go to the bottom, I knew this first take was going to be awesome. | ||
| When the breath stopped about like at the sternum, I was fucked. | ||
| Shallow breath. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because then you can't, then you're chatting in the thing, and then, yeah, and then that first take is just a pancake, which sucks because that's the first time the audience is going to see it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You kind of want that one to be, you know, if there's a cute girl in the crowd, that's the one you want her watching. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Not the second one where she's already heard the fucking jokes. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Now you're just doing whatever. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Now you're like, oh, this show sucks. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The live performance thing is weird because they don't really do it anymore. | ||
| I mean, I don't think there's very many shows that still do that kind of a sitcom in front of a live audience on cameras. | ||
| There's very few. | ||
| I think Tim Allen's show still does. | ||
| What is that on? | ||
| Is that on Fox? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think it's ABC. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| So he still does a traditional camera. | ||
| Yeah, because a guy I worked with, a friend of mine is on that writing staff. | ||
| God, they used to be all over the television. | ||
| I know. | ||
| There used to be tons of them. | ||
| Oh, I think Chuck's new show on Netflix, it's called Leanne Lorraine Shit. | ||
| Leanne, yeah. | ||
| I think that's a live audience. | ||
| You know. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So they're still doing some of them. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| They're fun. | ||
| It's fun when it works, you know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's like it's a missing genre in today's culture. | ||
| You're right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You're right. | |
| You can see most of what was on late at night. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Exactly. | |
| At night time. | ||
| When you got done having dinner, you would sit down and watch friends or you would sit down and watch Seinfeld or Two and a Half Men or Comfort View. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| Yeah, my family binge watched Big Bang Theory. | ||
| I never watched it when it was on the air. | ||
| We binge-watched it. | ||
| Seriously. | ||
| It's a good fucking show. | ||
| Yeah, they were. | ||
| It was a funny show. | ||
| I dismissed it. | ||
| I was like, ah, it's a corny sitcom. | ||
| Bullshit. | ||
| It's a good show. | ||
| Right on. | ||
| It's a solid show. | ||
| Right on. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That kid kid, that young man, Jim, right, had some of the most complicated dialogue that anybody's ever been saddled with ever. | ||
| Yeah, he's the first autistic star of an action show or of a sitcom. | ||
| There you go. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Where you're kind of celebrating his emotional disconnection. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But delivering it like Rainman, you know, and just with laser precision. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's a really well-written show. | ||
| It's very funny. | ||
| That guy, Chuck Laurie's, how many fucking hits? | ||
| That guy's had a ton of hits. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Maybe more than anybody. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Probably. | |
| Sitcom work? | ||
| Probably. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Those guys are friends again. | ||
| Yeah, so am I. So am I. No, that sucked having that out there. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You know, you know, I did finally actually remember that fucking thing, and I'm not going to, I'm not going to. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's the other component to that freaking tour, to that meltdown to that thing. | ||
| There was a moment when I was only in rehab for like, I don't know, three weeks or a month. | ||
| It wasn't like one of those extended stays. | ||
| It was just like a quick little spin drive, whatever they call it. | ||
| And I got the call, we want to renegotiate the giant contract for season eight and nine, you know? | ||
| And I was on the phone. | ||
| I said, I don't think so. | ||
| And they're like, what, you don't think you're going to get paid? | ||
| I'm like, no, I don't think we should do it. | ||
| I think Seven is like, you know, Mantle War 7, some other cool sevens, you know. | ||
| And I don't think, I think Seven is like plenty. | ||
| I think we've, I think we've told all the stories that we can mine from that Malibu house on the beach with those people. | ||
| And they're like, no, no, you don't understand, man. | ||
| This is when it's all like, this is when it turns into like a legacy play for your fucking kids and their kids. | ||
| And then the part they always leave out is an arcut in our fucking cut. | ||
| Yeah, that's the big part. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I sat on the phone. | ||
| And Mark and I have talked about that. | ||
| I talked to me on Mark Berg, my manager. | ||
| I said, Mark, if I go back there, man, it's going to go really fucking bad. | ||
| I just know it. | ||
| He's like, well, you're projecting that. | ||
| I said, I'm not projecting shit, man. | ||
| I'm just smart enough to know how I feel about it now. | ||
| I've got a little bit of clarity in this month I'm in the thing. | ||
| I said, if I go back there, I just, I got a bad feeling, Mark. | ||
| Why going back to work would send you off the rails? | ||
| Just that I had run up against a thing that I had lost passion for the show. | ||
| I'd lost passion for the process. | ||
| Okay, so that if you went and just did it just for the money, you would find some ways to stimulate yourself. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, that I would have to do something to enhance. | ||
| I said that about a lot of guys that got caught on shows that sucked. | ||
| I knew a lot of guys who got caught on shows where they were getting paid, but they did not like the show, and it was like a bad sitcom. | ||
| And those guys all went crazy. | ||
| Those guys all started doing a lot of drugs, or they started spending too much money or something. | ||
| They did something to distract themselves because they did not like what they were doing. | ||
| And they didn't feel satisfied. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, but they were getting so much money. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So like, what am I going to do? | ||
| I'm getting $100,000 a week. | ||
| I'm like, right. | ||
| Oh, God. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What do you do? | ||
| You can't quit. | ||
| I was making $54,000 an hour. | ||
| That's pre-taxes. | ||
| So. | ||
| I've never said no to season eight and nine. | ||
| I'd be like, do I change dress? | ||
| Right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Look what I have to do. | |
| You're in Dangerfield's Robe at that point. | ||
| Let's go. | ||
| No, but no, that was after I got kind of crowbarred into it. | ||
| Why not crowbar it? | ||
| I had to ultimately say yes. | ||
| I got on that. | ||
| But it was just, I was just the wrong guy in that moment, in that pocket of time to like give that much fucking money to, man. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| And like, I'd buy a bunch of cars and then invite a bunch of girls over and then just say pick one. | ||
| And then you did that other thing where you had that other show after that that you got paid like a ton of money in advance for, right? | ||
| You talking about anger management? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| No, it's supposed to get, it was, it was designed. | ||
| It was called a 1090. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| How do you see the scenario? | ||
| They suck you into that is they say, look, you're not going to get a ton on the front side, but you're going to be, you know, you're going to own a third of the show or like 40, 37, 38% of the show in perpetuity. | ||
| So we're going to do 100 episodes, and it's the South Park model. | ||
| That was the first 1090 that really just blew it up and everybody got fucking rich. | ||
| So you do these 10 episodes. | ||
| You do a 10 episode pilot. | ||
| And then if you hit, if the average number of those 10 episodes comes in at like, I don't know, at like a, like a, above a four or like a 5-1 or something that is like a share, right? | ||
| Then it activates the next 90. | ||
| And so then you're doing those 90 to have a sellable syndication package that will just go all over the world and, you know, do what syndicated sitcoms do. | ||
| And so you've done it, you know, and when you say not a lot on the front side, you're still getting a buck fifty an app, you know, 200, that's pretty good money, right? | ||
| But it's not, but you kind of, you kind of eat it on that side knowing that it's an investment for the other thing to pay gangbusters. | ||
| So you, did you guys, you did the 10 episodes and then you got to do all of them? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So you want to be doing 100. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| But you did them in a short amount, a short period of time. | ||
| Two and a half years. | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I know. | |
| I know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I was not ready to go back to work. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that's the thing I talk about in the book. | ||
| The only reason I did was I wanted to show those guys across town that I was terrible again. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| And that is not, that is not any way to, any mindset to like lead the troops. | ||
| And it, you know, again, it started pretty cool. | ||
| I did the 10. | ||
| I was great. | ||
| You know, doing some pretty good work and the shows were smart and funny. | ||
| And then we got into that 90 and it was about 20. | ||
| No, what am I saying? | ||
| It's probably like 9 or 11 into it. | ||
| I started feeling exactly the same shit that I felt going past that point. | ||
| I knew my enthusiasm and passion had an expiration date. | ||
| You couldn't manufacture it? | ||
| I tried, but I couldn't. | ||
| I didn't like the show enough. | ||
| I loved the people I was working with, from the writers crew to the actors. | ||
| They were terrific. | ||
| You didn't like the final product? | ||
| I didn't, yeah, and I didn't, I stopped caring. | ||
| But I still, you know, had enough dough to keep the lifestyle and all that other fun shit going on and just stayed way too fucking high to really engage in this thing. | ||
| I mean, I was doing this thing, Joe, where I was partying, you know, hitting the fucking pipe, either girls or porn or both or whoever showed up. | ||
| Yeah, fucking, yeah, hey, come on in. | ||
| Come on in. | ||
| There's plenty to go around. | ||
| And then there's this thing. | ||
| I think I felt like I was time traveling from like 1 a.m. to like 7 felt like 11, I don't know, 15 minutes. | ||
| Whereas, you know, 9 to midnight felt normal. | ||
| wow we had plenty of time to do everything and then like the the the hours i really needed to like you know settle in and enjoy those just vanished and then you're back to work no i got someone banging on my door dude you're late what the and i'm still sideways wow so i'd pop a couple shots or like half a xanax or something and i said all right i just need and i would literally do this thing it was a 15 minute 20 minute nap where I would just hit the pillow. | ||
| I'd try to meditate with a body just vibrating from crack all night. | ||
| Trying to meditate. | ||
| At that point, I'm trying to fucking time travel. | ||
| I'm trying to levitate, right? | ||
| But I could feel, okay, I've generated some calmness. | ||
| And then I would hit the shower and I'd be in the shower and I'd say, okay, I only have to navigate from this shower to the next shower. | ||
| And that's about 11, maybe 12 hours. | ||
| It was a shower to shower. | ||
| Remember that commercial like in the 70s? | ||
| Wasn't there a fucking like a deodorant or a shower to shower? | ||
| Yeah, like it lasted from one shower to the next. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I'm trying to last from one shower to the next, man. | ||
| No shit. | ||
| And then, but I'd get to work and then have that midday drop off. | ||
| And I wasn't hitting the pipe at work, but I needed to keep some fuel in the engine. | ||
| So I'd be, you know, I'd start drinking. | ||
| And then, man, people look at sitcoms like, oh, they're out there having a fun time. | ||
| Man, it is super fucking complicated. | ||
| Well, you've done them, right? | ||
| It's like an, it's like a dance, isn't it? | ||
| It's like a, it's like a choreographed thing. | ||
| And so it is hard enough to do and to do well completely focused and with all your shit intact, right? | ||
| You start getting over here and trying to be that specific just with marks, with jokes, with timing, with other people. | ||
| And then a lot of my energy is going to trying to disguise like the condition I'm really in, you know, and trying to make excuses. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Oh, I had a med mix up today. | ||
| Med mix up. | ||
| I'm on two pills or the same fucking thing at the same time every day. | ||
| There's no med mix up. | ||
| You know? | ||
| It's like, what are we doing? | ||
| And so, yeah, and then that turns into that thing where you just, then they start getting behind. | ||
| And I would just be like, oh, just sorry for the overtime. | ||
| I'll just pay for it. | ||
| And, you know, they should have not taken the money. | ||
| They should have said, we're shutting down. | ||
| You need to fucking go get well or go get just a little better than what you're showing up as. | ||
| And so that show kind of never really had a chance to be anything, really, anything special, you know, because I didn't really care about it. | ||
| And the thing that sucks about that, looking back, it's like, think about all the energy and the hard work that all those other people put into it and committed to it because I said yes. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know? | ||
| And there's also, there's a bunch of people that were rooting for you because they saw what happened with Two and a Half Men. | ||
| It was a big public disaster. | ||
| You leave. | ||
| Is his career ruined? | ||
| Oh, no, look, he's got another show. | ||
| Oh, Charlie's back. | ||
| But did anybody even say, okay, so whole time, what did he do between that? | ||
| You know, after that last swan dive into the volcano that we all watched, and then he's on the, he's back, he's on another show. | ||
| Like, what did he do between then and there? | ||
| Well, the narrative on you was, as an outsider, was that you were one of the rare guys who could party like that, but still pull it off and have a career. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I think your ex-wife had said that, that she never worried about you. | ||
| You would always land on your feet. | ||
| Because you were very talented. | ||
| And you were also very loved. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Which is one of the reasons why people embraced you when you were talking about how much crack you were doing. | ||
| You know, when you were saying all that, people, there was, they weren't mad at you. | ||
| They're like, he's fucking partying. | ||
| You know, it was, it was a very odd time where so many people who don't admit that they party, you know, because of their job or because of whatever. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, they try to like keep it hot, you know, hidden under wraps. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| And you were doing a live interview with this lady and you're talking to her about smoking rocks. | ||
| And she was flabbergasted. | ||
| Like you could tell. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| She did not expect that kind of candor with discussion of illicit drugs. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It was just like. | ||
| Nobody ever done that before. | ||
| Well, she asked. | ||
| I mean, right, but nobody ever embraced it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Everybody else is like, well, you know, it was a terrible time in my life. | ||
| I was, I got so low I was doing crack cocaine. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| It comes from a place of shame. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you didn't have any shame. | ||
| I didn't. | ||
| No. | ||
| Because I'd watched something like a couple days before I sat down with Andrea Canning, and it was this old interview with Charlie Gibson on some special they did for ABC, right? | ||
| I don't even think, it wasn't a GMA piece. | ||
| It was like a more in-depth, one of those exposés they do, you know? | ||
| And it was me coming out of rehab. | ||
| And I remember watching myself and just being such a, I was like, that guy's a fucking sissy, man. | ||
| That guy's a fucking pussy. | ||
| What's wrong with him? | ||
| Look at him, all that shame, all that embarrassment. | ||
| Like, no, no, no, we're not doing that anymore. | ||
| So that, that got locked in. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Yeah, I remember how I, I just, I remember how I felt watching me doing it their way. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I was like, no, no, no. | ||
| And then, you know, I got all I got the brain full of, you know, fucking nuclear crazy cream that I'm fucking, you know, just covering myself in. | ||
| And that's what 2K is. | ||
| That's like the donuts, right? | ||
| And yeah, man. | ||
| And you know where the material came from, right? | ||
| Those slogans and all that stuff. | ||
| No. | ||
| Was Brian Wilson. | ||
| From the Beach Boys? | ||
| No, the Brian Wilson pitcher for the Giants, the guy they called The Beard. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| I was on the phone with him like the day, a couple days before that, because Tony and I, Tony Todd, and I were watching baseball highlights. | ||
| I was like, wow, this guy looks like, this guy's a fucking trip. | ||
| Tony, get him on the phone, right? | ||
| And the next day I'm on the phone with him. | ||
| I think he was just trying to give me a pep talk. | ||
| He was like, hey, man, just know that guys like us, you know, we're not like everybody else. | ||
| You know, we're different, man. | ||
| We got tiger blood running through our veins. | ||
| We got fucking Adonis DNA. | ||
| We got, you know, we don't know how to lose, man, because we're always fucking winning, right? | ||
| So I hear all this. | ||
| And he's probably thinking, cool, man, I just kind of inspired him maybe just to get to the next moment. | ||
| That stuff went in there, man. | ||
| And it stayed on a fucking loop. | ||
| And I sat down and the interview doesn't start like that, which is a trip. | ||
| I'm trying to keep it together. | ||
| I'm trying to give her the stuff she needs to like maybe, I don't even know what was the thrust of that story, being fired or some shit? | ||
| I don't remember. | ||
| So, but there's a moment that's not on film. | ||
| And Andrea can't deny this. | ||
| She makes a crack about these two girlfriends that I'm living with, right? | ||
| And expects me to just like let it just, you know, brush it off and then answer her next question. | ||
| And I said, hold on a second. | ||
| I said, that was really rude. | ||
| She's like, which part? | ||
| I'm like, well, what you just, how you just address them? | ||
| You owe them an apology. | ||
| And she was like, okay. | ||
| I'm paraphrasing some of this, right? | ||
| But this is kind of, this is the tone of it. | ||
| And so how did she address them? | ||
| I felt like they were dismissed as just like porn chicks, you know? | ||
| Because one was a porn chick. | ||
| The other was not. | ||
| She named Natty. | ||
| So she kind of got rolled into that unfairly, you know. | ||
| And so then they, you know, she, Andrew's like, oh my God, okay, you know, I'm sorry. | ||
| I didn't mean anything by that, you know, but I'm over here, you know, with the thing. | ||
| And I'm not, I'm not letting it go. | ||
| I asked her to apologize. | ||
| We should have been past it. | ||
| Now I'm stewing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| So you ramped up now. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that's when it turned into, and then I start hearing Brian's stuff. | ||
| And I'm like, I don't know, man. | ||
| I've had fucking tiger blood. | ||
| And then it all just, and then it got away from me and I couldn't pull it back. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| I couldn't pull it back. | ||
| And then everybody's like, okay, well, that was different. | ||
| I mean, it's kind of fucking interesting and unique and whatever, man. | ||
| Well, well, let's just, let's, let's, you know, let's just have a quiet night and we'll see how that plays out, you know. | ||
| And I wake up into a world of not the world I said goodnight to six hours earlier. | ||
| And my friends are banging on the door. | ||
| People are, you know, sending me, you know, videos and stuff. | ||
| And he's like, dude, the world's on fire with your shit, man. | ||
| I'm like, all right, what does that mean? | ||
| And there's like, there's folk songs and rap songs. | ||
| People like marching in the streets. | ||
| And there's already t-shirts. | ||
| And there's this, it's just, it has just gone, it exploded. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And so it's not like I could jump on my roof with a bullhorn and say, all right, everybody, okay, let's just, you know, see fighters were saying they had tiger blood. | ||
| They were joking around about it. | ||
| See? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I mean, it got away from it. | |
| It penetrated me. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, it achieved penetration. | ||
| Well, no one had ever done an interview like that before. | ||
| I didn't, yeah, I wasn't thinking about that in the moment. | ||
| I was just fucking pissed. | ||
| And I wasn't going to be sissy Charles from the 90s, you know. | ||
| It was like this whole convergence of all these elements and all these emotions and all these feelings and also the resentment I had in myself, you know, and just like, all right, I'm just going to pick some targets. | ||
| And, you know, would have been nice had it been sort of if I could have just sort of been herded, just kind of, you know, away from it. | ||
| You know. | ||
| Have you ever thought of what your life would be like if you didn't do that interview? | ||
| I've started to. | ||
| No, I've started to try to walk into that village, right? | ||
| But as soon as I take a look around, none of it really makes sense because it's, I, I can't really imagine it. | ||
| You know, what do you think it would, I mean, what would it, it's hard to kind of even put those pieces together. | ||
| I wonder if you had ever would have gotten sober. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| You mean today's sober solo, yeah. | ||
| Today's sober so you might have had to have that complete chaos, tailspin, free fall crash publicly to just eventually like gather your shit together and go, okay. | ||
| Right. | ||
| All right. | ||
| Time to learn and grow. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Obviously, that wasn't smart. | ||
| Let's do it differently. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Let's get it together and step by step, day by day. | ||
| And look, here you are almost nine years later. | ||
| Almost nine years. | ||
| Or eight years later. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| That's you always wonder, like maybe you have to have, that was your rock bottom moment. | ||
| And it was public, you know? | ||
| Because the whole world got to see it. | ||
| It's like a full cleanse. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Just a purging of all of it. | ||
| And, you know, and still you have to battle with this reinforcement because now everybody is loving the fact that, you know, you're winning and that, you know, you're talking about how much crack you smoke and how crazy it is. | ||
| And you've got all these hot girls and everybody's like, he's winning. | ||
| He's winning. | ||
| And so now there's no incentive at all to get healthy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Which is kind of nuts. | ||
| And not only that, financially, you're kind of, it kind of helps you to be like a little off the rails. | ||
| It's like you're kind of known for that, you know? | ||
| Like, and then you have this big tour and everybody's coming out to see you. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Which was crazy for you to do. | ||
| Like the first one where you did it without comedians was just bananas. | ||
| Yeah, it was a complete train wreck. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It was a disaster. | ||
| But you guys pulled it together. | ||
| And that was like kind of the story of like your career when things have fallen apart. | ||
| People want you to pull it together. | ||
| So even though you had that disaster show and everybody knew it was a disaster in Detroit, people were still coming out to see the other ones. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I had the option after the Detroit massacre of flying to Chicago or taking the bus, the tour bus, right? | ||
| And I said, I need those seven or eight hours on the bus. | ||
| And they're like, why? | ||
| I said, because I'm going to rewrite the entire show. | ||
| And I think Naddy was on that trip. | ||
| I think maybe Rick. | ||
| I know Shady was on. | ||
| Anyway, and I just, I just, there was a place, you know, room in the back, and I just kind of barricaded myself with a pad of paper and a pen and just went to town and just sort of started trying to reshape it. | ||
| And when I got to Chicago, they were expecting all this, all the special effects we needed from that, you know, all that garbage. | ||
| And I said, we traveled with none of it. | ||
| I said, here's the new show. | ||
| They're like, you sure about this? | ||
| I'm like, just trust me. | ||
| And that, and unfortunately, that's the night where it got applauded and kept the train on the tracks was Chicago, you know. | ||
| But isn't that weird I had the wherewithal, like in the middle of all that, and they still had enough something, enough of that thing to just, maybe that's just pride at that point. | ||
| Certainly it's also, that's the impact of public humiliation. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Enough. | ||
| How about that? | ||
| Time to get this. | ||
| Get this thing back on track. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And it was just, it was, the curtain comes up and there's two chairs. | ||
| And I have a moderator. | ||
| And it's just a conversation. | ||
| Imagine that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Didn't reinvent anything. | ||
| No. | ||
| You know, and I, oh, oh, I wrote a letter is what it was. | ||
| Dear Chicago. | ||
| And it's like this whole thing, you know, including them. | ||
| And yeah, so I got them. | ||
| I kind of got them back on my side and then we sat down. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And people realized also you were figuring this tour thing out on the fly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It was essentially, it was 21 cities in like 24 days with no act. | ||
| That's what it was, man. | ||
| So I know you had Jeff Ross. | ||
| It's Jeff Ross, who's great at that. | ||
| A master at Off the Cuff. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| He showed up and really just put a shape on it. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And then you had Russell on some of them, too, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Who's also a master at Off the Cuff? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And he, and he was so relieved that the two chairs had shown up because that's when he joined us in Canada. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| No, he was terrific. | ||
| Yeah, Russell's awesome. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, the first night sitting with him, some dude, like, what's like the Canadian version of like a quarter? | ||
| What's their dolly? | ||
| A loony, okay. | ||
| But that's a dollar? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Is that the heavy one? | ||
| Yeah, someone threw it at him. | ||
| No, at me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Like, we're in the chair for maybe five minutes, and I get from the balcony. | ||
| I get hit with one right here. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| And it just, it was like getting punched by like someone with a skinny metal hand, you know? | ||
| And I just had to, I had to kind of pause into that. | ||
| And they got the guy thrown out. | ||
| But I just thought, wow, I could have lost an eye. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Russell could have lost an eye. | ||
| And it was just like, wow, all right. | ||
| Also, pretty good shot. | ||
| Really good shot. | ||
| Guy throws a loony from the balcony and he hits it in the head. | ||
| Yeah, that's impressive. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Because that's not an aerodynamic thing. | ||
| It's not. | ||
| No, you have to kind of factor in. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's a lot of flipping of the air. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, it's kind of like a boomerang or something. | ||
| Yeah, it's a frisbee. | ||
| It's a real tiny frisbee. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| So anyway, so that's there were just moments like that that I guess just little cosmic reminders that not everybody was on my side. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Which is important too. | ||
| Hey, can I hit the bathroom? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah, yeah. | |
| We couldn't actually wrap it up. | ||
| We're getting close. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| You want to wrap it up? | ||
| Can we just touch on a couple things before we do? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Absolutely. | |
| Just take a leak and we'll come back. | ||
| Okay, cool. | ||
| Should we bring this up? | ||
| I guess we have to. | ||
| This just happened. | ||
| We just found out that Charlie Kirk got shot. | ||
| It's fucking awful. | ||
| And is he dead? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| I don't think so. | ||
| That's what was just. | ||
|
unidentified
|
One of the guys out there just said confirmed in the lobby. | |
| I've been looking. | ||
| I haven't seen anything that said confirmed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa. | |
| Murder for having a different opinion from somebody else. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Different ideology from somebody else. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, I don't know. | ||
| Beliefs that didn't align. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I'm sorry. | |
| Rest in peace for Fox News. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| 27 years old, maybe? | ||
|
unidentified
|
30? | |
| Did he even have a suspect? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Well, that's why I'm literally trying to chalk it all on Twitter, and it's all fuck. | ||
| Nobody deserves it. | ||
| He doesn't deserve that. | ||
| Nobody deserves that. | ||
| So, so were you saying that MSNBC had a crazy take on it? | ||
| What was their take? | ||
| I'm literally just reading Twitter, so I didn't see the video. | ||
| I just saw people talking about tweets of it. | ||
| I'll pull it up, though. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Let me see. | |
| Fuck. | ||
| And even now, they could have taken it down. | ||
| It was a tweet or a video? | ||
| I'm doing the show while I'm trying to figure out. | ||
| Right, no, I understand. | ||
| I think they were live on the air and people clipped what they were talking about. | ||
| It's not a tweet. | ||
| It's not on their Twitter account or anything. | ||
| So it's someone's hot take. | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| Live in the moment. | ||
| Yeah, that's a crazy take. | ||
| Crazy take. | ||
| What was the take that they deserved it? | ||
| That's why I didn't want to pair it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Here you go. | ||
| Dave Portnoy reposted this. | ||
| You found it right here. | ||
| Put it. | ||
| It's only 10 seconds. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Which a shooting like this happens. | |
| You can put the headphones on. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You can hear it. | |
| Yeah, again, to emphasize what you just emphasized. | ||
| We don't know any of the full details of this. | ||
| We don't know if this was the supporter shooting their gun off in celebration. | ||
| So we have no idea. | ||
| That's what the crazy thing was. | ||
| Oh, that's it. | ||
| Yeah, if it was a supporter shooting their gun off in celebration. | ||
|
unidentified
|
What? | |
| Someone shot their gun off in celebration and killed him. | ||
| You shoot celebration guns in the air. | ||
| Oh, God. | ||
| Just. | ||
| What a crazy take. | ||
| Like it might not have been someone assassinating someone for the wrong opinion. | ||
| Huh. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fuck. | |
| But why does something like that have to be spun? | ||
| Their ideology. | ||
| No, I know what I'm just saying. | ||
| It's like... | ||
| I mean, they want to try to pin it on a Trump supporter. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| A crazy Trump supporter with a gun. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Going wacky. | ||
| We don't know if it was a supporter shooting off a gun in celebration. | ||
| Because you know they do. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| A lot of folks are just constantly out there shooting off guns at large gatherings in celebration. | ||
| Yeah, 4th of July, you can't leave your house. | ||
| What the fuck? | ||
| Yeah, that is, that's a, wow. | ||
| There's going to be a lot of people celebrating this. | ||
| It's so scary. | ||
| It's so dangerous, too, to celebrate or to in any way encourage this kind of behavior from human beings. | ||
| He's not a violent guy who's talking, talking to people on college campuses. | ||
| Wasn't even particularly rude. | ||
| He's tried to be pretty reasonable with people. | ||
| Everything I saw seemed reasonable. | ||
| He's a very intelligent guy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You know, whether you agree with him or don't. | ||
| And there's a lot of stuff that I didn't agree with him on. | ||
| That's fine. | ||
| You're allowed to disagree with people without celebrating the fact they got shot. | ||
| But you can't disrespect his passion. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, what you're supposed to do with a guy like that, if you're opposing him, is debate him. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Have a conversation where your argument is more compelling than his. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| That's what people should be celebrating, discourse. | ||
| You know, we used to do that. | ||
| Do some homework and bring it to the table. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's horrible. | ||
| It's horrible. | ||
| This podcast has been a lot about violence, man. | ||
| It has, but not this kind. | ||
| No. | ||
| I'm sorry, not something so in the moment right now from someone this current that we see and are aware of daily. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, he's one of those young influencers, right? | ||
| This time from the right, who is all over social media, always doing these various shows and debating people and talking to people and giving speeches. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No one deserves this, folks. | ||
| No one that has different opinions. | ||
| No one deserves that. | ||
| No. | ||
| This is horrible. | ||
| No. | ||
| But I know people are going to celebrate it because this is a fucked up time and people have really fallen into this trap of us against them. | ||
| But it's also going to make people not want to be as courageous or not want to be as forthright with the things they believe. | ||
| It's going to put people on guard. | ||
| It could. | ||
| It also could. | ||
| It could do the opposite. | ||
| I get that, but there's also going to be that sort of ingrained thing now. | ||
| You're correct. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And, you know, and just going through the whole New York thing, I just, you know, sometimes you're, you know, there's a crowd and it's all love. | ||
| It's all love. | ||
| And all they want is, you know, is your signature or a photo or this and that. | ||
| But there's so much of those moments where you're spent looking down. | ||
| You're looking down the entire time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I don't think anybody wants to shoot me. | ||
| I don't think that that's kind of out in the world, right? | ||
| But it just, it's the type of shit that just lives in the back of one's mind. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because how could it not? | ||
| How could it not? | ||
| And then the thing like today, and you're like, okay, that's why it's in the back of our minds. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Well, it's, you know, when we were talking about assassinations earlier, whether it's Kennedy or RFK or, you know, you think of him in the past, you think of him like you don't, when something happens in the current, like right now with this one with Charlie Kirk, it doesn't seem real. | ||
| No. | ||
| It seems very surreal. | ||
| It does. | ||
| It seems like it's going to take a long time before we reference this as something that happened. | ||
| Like he, oh, you remember where he got shot and killed? | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Like right now, it just doesn't seem real. | ||
| It seems so crazy that just it's not registering. | ||
| It's not. | ||
| No. | ||
| Is he a friend? | ||
| No. | ||
| I met him once. | ||
| I met him once at a gun range of all places. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He was a nice guy when I met him. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| It's a fucked up time. | ||
| People are so divided in this country. | ||
| So divided. | ||
| And there's so many people that love it. | ||
| They love that we're divided and they profit off that division and they stoke the fires and they do it for their own profit. | ||
| And it's so fucking gross. | ||
| It's so gross. | ||
| And to encourage this kind of thing is really one of the most horrific things that you could do after someone dies horribly like this is celebrate. | ||
| It's unfortunate. | ||
| It should be a wake-up call for everybody. | ||
| Like, this is nuts. | ||
| No, it's unforgivable to spend things like that. | ||
| Because the people they're never thinking about is that person's family. | ||
| I think they just like default with those. | ||
| They gaslight you by default. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So immediately they try to find some reason why whatever the thing is that's in the news is someone else's fault. | ||
| Right, of course. | ||
| It's just all gaslighting. | ||
| And that's what they're paid to do. | ||
| They're paid propagandists masquerading as the news. | ||
| So weird. | ||
| Fuck. | ||
| No, it's a dark day. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Well, one of the two things is going to happen. | ||
| Either people are going to realize how fucking insane this is, and we have to have a conversation about being able to have conversations. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Or it's going to get a lot worse. | ||
| That's what's scary. | ||
| Scary, this could spark off some kind of a real violent conflict. | ||
| You know, that guy had a lot of fans. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| A lot of people love that guy. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
| And if they find out that he got killed for something that they vehemently oppose in the first place, it could send people over the edge. | ||
| It could. | ||
| It could, yeah. | ||
| There's always that flashpoint moment in any, you know, in previous times like this. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| You know? | ||
| There's always that tipping point moment. | ||
| Like the Rodney King film. | ||
| Yep. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Something just like, that's it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, this also highlights just a little bit of perspective, like how lucky Trump was. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| You know, and it's just like Charlie didn't get the benefit of a head turn or a couple of microns or millimeters or, you know, and it's just like, wow. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Who decides that? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, that is just, man, this is. | ||
| The Trump thing is bananas. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But they talk about clips his ear. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because he makes a reference to something. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then it's just, yeah. | ||
| And then it clips his ear, where if he didn't turn his head, he'd be dead. | ||
| And it would have been on live on CNN. | ||
| How do we know more about an assassination from 1963? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Then we do from eight months ago. | ||
| That story is fucked. | ||
| There's a lot of weird stuff with that story. | ||
| There's a cell phone that was traveling because of metadata. | ||
| They know a cell phone was traveling from offices outside of the offices of the FBI in that area all the way to this guy multiple times. | ||
| Imagine that. | ||
| He was 20 years old. | ||
| His apartment was professionally scrubbed. | ||
| There was no silverware in it. | ||
| They had no social media presence. | ||
| He was regularly training with military guys. | ||
| He was regularly training and shooting. | ||
| One guy had remembered him from a range. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like, what? | ||
| He was in a BlackRock commercial two years before. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Like, what? | ||
| His chosen rooftop is just kind of between the two quadrants that they're assigned to cover. | ||
| Not only that. | ||
| It's just a blind spot. | ||
| The excuse for why they didn't have officers on that rooftop was it was too sloped. | ||
| The slope was too steep, which made zero sense. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Because he climbed up it. | ||
| He was fine. | ||
| Yeah, he did. | ||
| What the fuck are you talking about? | ||
| It didn't make any sense. | ||
| Not only that, the one where the snipers were perched had a steeper slope. | ||
| It made no sense. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| It was fucking nuts. | ||
| They found that guy walking around the grounds a half an hour before the event with a fucking range finder. | ||
| yeah yeah if you're not on a golf course with a range finder then you know You're going to shoot something. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's what they're for. | ||
| But it's just, man, it's it it sucks that that to say things like, you know, these are the times we we currently inhabit, you know, and that there's nothing that is an absolutely factual statement. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And it sucks to have to, you know, to exist inside of that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You know? | ||
| Yeah, it's very strange, man. | ||
| It's very strange. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Very strange. | |
| Very strange. | ||
| It's very strange. | ||
| And, you know, we've talked about it a bunch of times, but it bears repeating. | ||
| I think a lot of it is highlighted by bots. | ||
| A lot of it is people are being inflamed online by people that aren't even real accounts. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| See, I don't study any of that. | ||
| Oh, there's a lot of that going on. | ||
| I think it's a giant percentage of all online discourse where people are hating and saying mean things about people's political beliefs or anti-Israel things or anti-Palestine things or whatever. | ||
| I just think a giant ton of that is foreign governments who are running these bot farms. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And it's been proven. | ||
| They know for a fact. | ||
| China actually got caught recently. | ||
| What was this? | ||
| The chat GPT thing? | ||
| They were using chat. | ||
| They were using Open AI software. | ||
| Chat GPT blocked a bunch of accounts for multiple countries that had suspicious activity. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they were commenting on like blocking of USAID money and a bunch of different political subjects. | ||
| But what they're basically doing is just getting people to fight. | ||
| That's what they want. | ||
| They want constant fighting, constant, like, we have to take action. | ||
| We have to, you know, constantly stoking the flames. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| So it's not even organic. | ||
| Some of it's organic for sure, but a lot of it is being enhanced by foreign governments for sure. | ||
| And probably some of it by our own government. | ||
| What they did with the Manson family, you think they stopped there? | ||
| You think some of that kind of stuff isn't going on right now that we don't know about right now because there hasn't been a Tom O'Neill to write a book about it? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| Sure. | ||
| And then we also never know which stuff was the beta test for that specific type of program or that specific type of op to be rolled out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| And like where, you know, okay, let's see how they react to this. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Oh, hell. | ||
| That worked like a charm. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Activate more of those, you know? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Jesus. | ||
| How do we wrap this up on a positive note? | ||
| I don't think we can. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| I think it is what it is. | ||
| It is what it is. | ||
| I think we just have to deal with that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, listen, man, it was great to finally actually meet you. | ||
| This was amazing. | ||
| It was a lot of fun. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| I really enjoyed talking to you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah, no, I think you'll notice now I always need a few minutes to get warmed up. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Get settled in. | ||
| No, you seem cool right off the bat, man. | ||
| No, thank you. | ||
| Some great stories, too. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Sometimes my brain, like we talked about, it wants to go somewhere else when I was trying to. | ||
| It's amazing your brain works as good as it does considering all the things you've done to it. | ||
| Oh, that's awesome. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| If you think about it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's that part. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| There's that part. | ||
|
unidentified
|
There's that part. | |
| Because people are like, you know, hey, man, you should get some laser work on your face. | ||
| I'm like, dude, I'm lucky this thing is still fucking attached. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So go fuck yourself. | ||
| You actually look way better than you've looked at a long time ago. | ||
| Oh, right. | ||
| I think the sobriety suits you. | ||
| It really does. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| You look really healthy. | ||
| You know, I took a page out of your book, a very specific page. | ||
| And even if it's a rumor, it worked. | ||
| I use a sauna blanket, right? | ||
| This thing called Higher Dose. | ||
| And I'm not sponsored by them. | ||
| I just bought one and I fucking love it. | ||
| I use it at home. | ||
| And then I hear, hey, man, fucking Joe travels with his, right? | ||
| I have one of those sauna blankets. | ||
| But do you travel with it? | ||
| I do if I know that there's not going to be a sauna. | ||
| Okay, okay. | ||
| So I was. | ||
| There's a lot of times I'll just try to find a place that has a sauna. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I was like, well, fuck it. | ||
| If he's traveling with him. | ||
| You definitely can, though. | ||
| They're great. | ||
| I'm going to travel with mine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| So I've had it on this trip. | ||
| I've traveled with it. | ||
| It's a pain in the ass. | ||
| I'm lugging this rolling duffel and shit. | ||
| Who cares? | ||
| But so thank you. | ||
| It's worth it, though. | ||
| Thank you for the idea. | ||
| Those are great because those sauna blankets are great because they're portable and you could always just get it in. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| I really genuinely prefer a real sauna if you have one because I like to stretch out in the sauna. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Sure. | |
| It's the best time ever to stretch. | ||
| But as far as time with the portable blanket is like, I tell people it's like a Bikram class without all the yelling and pain. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Because of it. | ||
| Well, do you get drenched in that? | ||
| Oh, sure. | ||
| That's a lot of what Bikram is. | ||
| A lot of it is heat shock therapy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know, it's also the yoga and the exercises, which are great. | ||
| And also the fact that you're more pliable when you're really warm and heated up like that, which really helps. | ||
| But a lot of what they're, there was actually a study that they were doing at Harvard. | ||
| I don't know if they completed it, but they were doing it a couple years back about the benefits of hot yoga and whether they're comparable to the medical, the known medical benefits of sauna, which are pretty well documented. | ||
| And what was the conclusion? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I have to think it's got to be similar because I've been in both. | ||
| I've been in a lot of hot saunas and I've done a lot of hot yoga. | ||
| And because of the exercise, I think you reach very similar body temperatures. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Got it. | |
| And your heart rate jacks up because you're so hot. | ||
| You could barely cool yourself off with a glass of water when they let you have a sip. | ||
| Right. | ||
| In between things, you're allowed to take a sip of water. | ||
| But it's real similar. | ||
| And it's 90 minutes, which is fucking brutal. | ||
| You can get through a real good Bikram hot yoga class at the end of that, man. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You're good. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| You're going to have it. | ||
| You have a different day in front of you. | ||
| 100%. | ||
| If we all did that every day, it was like how everyone started their day. | ||
| The world would be so much more peaceful. | ||
| Yeah, no, you're right. | ||
| It really would. | ||
| Yeah, it really would. | ||
| It'd be a much, much, much better place. | ||
| And you don't have to fucking do anything hard in the gym. | ||
| You don't have to lift weights. | ||
| You don't have to punch the bag. | ||
| All those things are great, but just do a hot yoga class for 90 minutes every day. | ||
| You will live in a different world. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| 13 up, 13 down, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You'll live in a world of kindness and sweet people and hello, friends. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because you've already put yourself through something that nobody else can deliver the rest of the day. | ||
| They can't deliver that kind of pain you just inflicted on yourself. | ||
| And it's a constant battle to see if you can use 100% effort. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| You're constantly battling. | ||
| Can I hold you? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Yes. | ||
| 15 more seconds. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And there's no cheat zone. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| There's no, you can't. | ||
| Because you're always doing it 100% of what you can do. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| No, I was, I, I was, I was going to his studio on like Rexford in the early 80s. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| Yeah, man. | ||
| We were with that original crew. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| There's one thing that was really cool. | ||
| Kareem was in there. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Wow. | ||
| And you know, a lot of the stuff with the arms above the head, he can only go about here because of the ceiling. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I would come in late sometimes and Kareem would already be in there. | ||
| And so his shoes would be like next to his locker. | ||
| So I would put my, still wearing my shoes inside his shoes just because I just had to. | ||
| It was cool as fuck. | ||
| It's Kareem, right? | ||
| And so, but then Quincy Jones is also in there, right? | ||
| And so the mirror, you could see the front desk where you check in behind you, like you could see it, but it was behind us. | ||
| We're all facing forward. | ||
| And for about a six-month period, you know, Quincy's in a little speedos and he's giving, you know, he's giving it his all. | ||
| He'd be in the middle of like the standing bow or the freaking head to knee or something like a triangle or something really complicated. | ||
| And he'd stop and he'd leave the class, but you'd see him going to the desk and writing shit down, fucking sweating in his speedo, right? | ||
| And he's writing shit down. | ||
| He's sweating all over the paper. | ||
| He'd come back and try to, you know, resume what he was doing. | ||
| And then this went on for a while. | ||
| And we came to find out later. | ||
| Guess what he was working on? | ||
| If you think about the year, if you think about like what that, how his mind was being expanded, right? | ||
| He was producing Thriller. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And he's getting inspired during the yoga, during the Bikram yoga. | ||
| And we were kind of watching in the mirror the best, I think the largest selling album ever, perhaps. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Probably. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's got to be up there. | ||
| Being built behind us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Kind of a trip, right? | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| That shows you how hyper-dialed in he is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Even in the middle of a yoga class, he's got to run out. | ||
| He's probably thinking about it with every pose. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or something. | ||
| And just how to write it down. | ||
| How to write it down. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| How to write it down. | ||
| Because most people aren't allowed to leave the class. | ||
| But Quincy Jones has to write some shit down for Thriller. | ||
| You got to let him leave. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| He gets that past, doesn't he? | ||
| He gets the pass. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He gets the pass. | ||
| All right, brother. | ||
| Thank you so much. | ||
| This is an absolute pleasure. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thanks. | |
| It's an honor. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you for being here. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Best of luck for you and everything. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Right now. |
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