Sept. 11, 2025 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:51:30
Participants
| 
| Speaker | Time | Text |
|---|---|---|
|
unidentified
|
Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. | |
| The Joe Logan Experience. | ||
| All day. | ||
| Great to finally meet you, man. | ||
| It's great to meet you. | ||
| It's a trip and and you know, walking in, and I'm thinking, is there how is it possible that our paths didn't cross all those years? | ||
| I mean, it's it's it's conceivable we were in the same venue or the same building or at the same party or at least something. | ||
| I kind of avoided parties. | ||
| I I avoid basically everything. | ||
| I avoided parties. | ||
| I avoided uh premieres, any anything where there's a red carpet, uh like even if I was in a movie, I wouldn't go on the red carpet, I'd go in through the back door. | ||
| Seriously. | ||
| Yeah, I don't like it. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I don't like all the that fucking look over here, look over here. | ||
| That is just too fake for me. | ||
| It just whatever allergy I have to that flares, and I'm like, I'm going through the back door, fuck this. | ||
| Yeah, no, I don't I don't blame you. | ||
| I don't blame you. | ||
| They they stopped um uh showing me where the back door was I I I support a similar uh entrance thing. | ||
| Um it's just too weird. | ||
| But it's that it's look over here, look over here. | ||
| It's that thing. | ||
| Something happens in that moment. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I think it's like it's it it brings you as close to possibly uh uh sterilization as you can get without you know uh surgery. | ||
| I think it's bad for you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I think it's legit I think it's like radiation. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Like you could take a little bit of it, but you know, you don't want to be working the X-ray machine your whole life. | ||
| No, no, and then there's always that one lady who keeps calling you back to her. | ||
| Oh, Charlie, Charlie. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Far left, far left, far left. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you've looked at her like seven times already. | ||
| And then I'm I'm out there thinking, if it took me this many takes to get a scene right, nobody would ever hire me. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You wouldn't get past the first the first day. | ||
| Well, they want to get a million pictures just to get that perfect one with just a little bit of side eye to you, just a little something. | ||
| Right. | ||
| A little purse of the lips, a little something. | ||
| Like the one. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But then they chew which one do they always choose? | ||
| The one that's absolute dog shit. | ||
| Yeah, the one with your mouth open. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Or your eyes closed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| I d I d what I really don't like is the people who like it. | ||
| Uh not that I don't like them, is that I don't want to ever see that in myself. | ||
| And so when I would be around them, I would just go, Oh, I gotta get out of here. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, right. | ||
| Freak me out. | ||
| The trappings. | ||
| The trapping. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um, yeah, I mean, is there because it feels like um that system's been in place for over a hundred years, right? | ||
| Is there another is there another way to do it? | ||
| Probably not. | ||
| No. | ||
| People like it. | ||
| You know, photographers like it, the press likes it, it's a big thing. | ||
| There's a lot of people, there's a lot of lights flashing, it seems legit. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I just um I don't I can never um feel relaxed when everybody's yelling. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know. | ||
| It's that's just totally unnatural. | ||
| It's completely unnatural. | ||
| The only way that would be happening in real life is if like you were on trial. | ||
| You know, like you were being paraded in front of a bunch of people. | ||
| Jim, there he is. | ||
| Look over here. | ||
| You know, it's odd. | ||
| It's very odd. | ||
| Yeah, it's almost it's a form of a purpose walk, isn't it? | ||
| A little bit of a purpose and just a a little bit of uh um a mental illness exhibition. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I just had it for the first time um like last it would have been last Thursday. | ||
| The first time ever? | ||
| No, for the first time in like in like maybe over a decade uh at the Netflix premiere for the it was kind of cool, like the first, you know, 34 seconds. | ||
| I was like, okay, I remember this. | ||
| And then it was like, yeah, I I I fucking remember this. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Damn. | ||
| And then I like I'm I'm in the right the sun just beating right on my on my forehead, and it's just I could feel myself start to sweat. | ||
| Now I'm questioning the whole outfit. | ||
| You know, the underwear choice. | ||
| All of it. | ||
| It's just like every decision I made leading up to that was completely wrong. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And it's all being documented, you know. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What's really funny at the when I'm when you first walked into the studio, you brought up a tweet that I had sent in 2011. | ||
| I think this is when you were going crazy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And uh I think this is also when my friend Russell Peters was doing those tours with you. | ||
| Oh, that's right. | ||
| And it said, I need to get Charlie Sheen on my podcast. | ||
| I know it's a long shot, but a boy could dream but everybody knows him. | ||
| Help me hook it up. | ||
| Well, here we are, fourteen years later. | ||
| You know, it takes what it takes, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Um it's funny because back then I don't think I had no guests. | ||
| I think I had Anthony Bourdain was the only like real guest that I had had uh seriously. | ||
| Yeah, he was 2011 as well. | ||
| And and how many shows had you done by then? | ||
| Not that many by then, I don't know. | ||
| So were you just doing solo shows, just like covering topics and talking about it? | ||
| Most of them with my friends, mostly with other comics. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| We just sit and talk shit and then eventually your house? | ||
| Yeah, I was at my house back then. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So it looked nothing like this. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| It slowly had to get out of it. | ||
| It's like I had too many weirdos that I had to bring by my house, and I have young kids at the time. | ||
| They're really young. | ||
| I was like, this is just too strange, bring these weirdos by our house, and you know. | ||
| It was just too odd. | ||
| I was like, maybe some people shouldn't know exactly where I sleep. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's interesting because driving here, um, I was buried in my phone just, you know, for for the right reasons. | ||
| Um so I have no idea where we are. | ||
| Good. | ||
| So it was kind of like a the version of being blindfolded with a with a sack over my head, you know. | ||
| Yeah, that's probably how we should do it. | ||
| Can you imagine then like I'm the guy they're blaming for introducing this? | ||
| Just put everybody in a blindfold and put them in the back of an SUV and drive into an undisclosed location. | ||
| And make the guy drive a few circles around in like some you know neighborhood right over there, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um but we did it. | ||
| We're here. | ||
| That those things that you did with Russell Peters were so fascinating. | ||
| It was the whole thing was so fascinating. | ||
| I watched the Netflix thing. | ||
| I watched the first episode. | ||
| And the whole the the whole experience of watching the guy from Platoon. | ||
| The guy that everybody knows this is like this gigantic super cool movie star, hot shots, all these different things. | ||
| To watch you just not just go off the rails with drugs, but like be super open about it. | ||
| You were like the first guy, super open about it. | ||
| You know, and everybody just embraced it. | ||
| Instead of it being like, oh, Charlie Sheen's doing drugs, that's so sad. | ||
| It was like, we love him. | ||
| Keep going. | ||
| It was kind of crazy. | ||
| All the tiger blood stuff and winning. | ||
| Everybody was saying winning all the time. | ||
| And it it was what was that like for you? | ||
| Was that like was it the worst kind of reinforcement? | ||
| Or was or did it let you like were you surprised by it? | ||
| That's a great way to describe it. | ||
| It was it it is yeah, I the worst kind of reinforcement. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It was like uh unintentionally or otherwise celebrating a guy's demise. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, and and and I guess the the the train wreck was so spectacular that there was such a spectacle that they couldn't turn away. | ||
| But they were also being invited in to to follow it down the tracks. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, and then somebody asked me about it, and and and I, you know, I don't know if I was the conductor or if I was riding a caboose or both simultaneously. | ||
| Um it was a trip because thinking back on it, it's you know, some of it just kind of exists in in just Polaroid snapshots that kind of drift past through the mist, you know. | ||
| Other other moments are in high deaf, but kind of seen through a tunnel vision. | ||
| Like in it and and it's it was I there was an energy or it was there was an energy I tapped into that felt like I was playing a role, but I couldn't figure out if it what you know what the move what the plot was who my co-stars were. | ||
| Where somebody, you know, somebody show up with like a jig page one rewrite. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| That's what we fucking need. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um and it and it got away from me. | ||
| And and had it not been encouraged, I think it could have been curtailed, it could have been shut down a lot sooner. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You become kind of captured to the image. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And there was something that and just recently, something I stumbled on to, um, it's um I was I was in in some way, um I was being a bully. | ||
| It had a bullying kind of energy about it, you know, and I've never been that guy. | ||
| How so? | ||
| Householder bullying. | ||
| The way I was attacking people and I was challenging people. | ||
| I was like the tough guy on the block and had all these soldiers, had this called cadre behind me and it was like, you know, inviting people into the ring. | ||
| I've never been in the ring. | ||
| What are we doing, you know? | ||
| You're on coke. | ||
| It's total cocaine behavior. | ||
| Among other things. | ||
| Um yeah and and I think um there was a whole testosterone component as well that was um out of hand just out of control because there's you know what do they recommend? | ||
| Like a quarter size dollop and like every other day and no I I there's a line in the book where I say I was I was slathering that that shit on like a fucking Pons commercial. | ||
| Oh so you using the cream? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah which is hard to measure. | ||
| It's not just hard to measure. | ||
| It gets on other people. | ||
| Oh I read the story about this guy who is on TRT cream and his child started like showing signs of uh premature development. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| And they realize that this kid's testosterone level was through the roof because it's through the dermis, right? | ||
| It's through the skin. | ||
| So he's getting it on his arms and then he's hugging his child and the kid is getting juiced. | ||
| Like what were the kids' numbers do we know? | ||
| We don't know. | ||
| Like in the sound I don't think they released that but they they said that it probably permanently affected the kid's development. | ||
| Oh wow yeah because this kid is like experiencing puberty at three you know you're getting bombarded with testosterone while your dad is holding it. | ||
| Insane insane is that part of the reason they recommend like an inner thigh application. | ||
| I guess then the only person would get it is the person you're having sex with exactly for her or your horse. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's probably good for the horse. | ||
| Right so there was testosterone and cocaine together at the same time that's that sounds like a combination of hubris. | ||
| And a lot of rage and a lot of rage a lot of rage but the rage I think um it's it's interesting because when you finally get some distance from something you start to realize that that it wasn't really so much about what you said it was about in the moment and I and I'm you know really realizing it wasn't about the job wasn't about chuck it was it was about all the stuff in my personal life you know it was about trying to just be be a certain guy at work be a certain guy at home and then just never having the time to be a certain guy with me. | ||
| And I just I just couldn't I couldn't find any place to to find any refuge or solace or any type of just a moment to breathe to just to decompress you know that's all important. | ||
| Yeah and I there was a it's not in the book because I can't really I don't remember it well enough to put it in the book and that was kind of how I decided what's in there and what's not right um or if something just isn't true it's not in the book. | ||
| And so um but it it um you know I was I was I was trying to just kind of you know like you know I I I went through two divorces and and had four children during during that run of eight years, you know. | ||
| And so um That's crazy. | ||
| It's insane yeah and and they both you know they they fell apart for for for married reasons and whatever and and but did there there wasn't time to heal the last one before the next one kicked off and but that's all on me. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| That's all on me making those decisions. | ||
| That's one of the through lines in the book is that it like really comes down to really being all about choices. | ||
| But then um yeah and and and but it it's just for for it to be just talking about the bullying stuff you know for it to be so directed at a guy who let's like if you really break it down what did he really do to me? | ||
| He created this environment with the dream character in in an in a in an amazing show so people tell me right um that that that was the you know the toast of the town right and and all he asked for me was to just like you know just show up be responsible know your lines hit your marks do your fucking job you know that though the the those were the only demands. | ||
| Essentially the stuff I told him before I took the Job that I was going to do. | ||
| So and then I turn it into that. | ||
| You know, it it's really difficult to really look back on that and figure out why it got that far, how it got that far. | ||
| Oh, I can help you out. | ||
| Okay. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Testosterone testosterone. | |
| It'll have you having all kinds of conversations with people in your head that'll tell you exactly what's what you're doing is correct. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Sorry, I lost it. | ||
| Did you ever talk to Chuck? | ||
| Did you ever like Chuck O'Learch sorry? | ||
| Yeah, no, it was I was really grateful we were able to do that. | ||
| Oh, that's nice. | ||
| Yeah, it's carrying that around for too long. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He hired me for a show he had a few years ago called Bookie with Sebastian Manescalco, right? | ||
| Oh yeah, that's right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| So I came in and did I played myself, did a few scenes, did a cameo, you know, did some fun stuff, and just back on a set with Chuck, and and it was like it was it just felt like it like it like it like it did in the in the early parts of the city. | ||
| Oh, that's well, good on him for not holding a grudge too. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That's that's awesome. | ||
| Sorry I lost that thought earlier. | ||
| No, no, no. | ||
| Well, it's a it's a complicated thing to think about. | ||
| Like, why did I go off the rails? | ||
| You know, it's like and it's very reasonable. | ||
| Here's the thing. | ||
| I don't think anybody but Charlie Sheen knows what it's like to be Charlie Sheen. | ||
| And in my estimation, there are a scant few people that have become massive superstars at a young age and came through it sane. | ||
| I don't know anybody. | ||
| Everybody, I mean I know people that have regained equilibrium and got their footing back and now they're on the right track, and but no one gets through without a hiccup. | ||
| It's everyone kind of goes crazy because you're living in this completely alien world that no one can help you navigate. | ||
| Even if you've watched the the people closest to you go through it your most of your life and like just like right over there. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Like in the in the next room. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Right. | ||
| You know, or in the same room. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And a bunch of your friends. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| It doesn't matter. | ||
| It's still bananas. | ||
| It's still an alien world that you live in that no one that you run into during the day except the people like that can understand. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Which is like people are always like, why do celebrities always hang out with each other? | ||
| Well, because to them, they're the only people that are normal. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They're the only people that like I get it. | ||
| I can't go to the supermarket either. | ||
| I get it. | ||
| I yeah, I get fucking TMZ'd at the airport as well. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's like f it's normal for them. | ||
| Because everybody else is like, whoa, it's Charlie Sheen. | ||
| And they're just captivated. | ||
| Like you kind of need to be around people that understand what that life is like. | ||
| But the problem is they're all going crazy too. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's not um I mean it's it's a it's a it's a great support group to a degree. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| I think you can rely on them for the things that you have in common. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But maybe take the more complicated shit just right across the street. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| To the experts. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You can't rely on them for everything. | ||
| No. | ||
| Because they're going through it too. | ||
| Can I just get a tissue? | ||
| Do you mind? | ||
| Yeah, sure, sure, sure. | ||
| Jimmy, you got a box? | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Sorry, I'm just saying. | ||
| No worries. | ||
| Getting sweaty. | ||
| Is it hot in here? | ||
| Turn the AC on. | ||
| No, I'll tell you exactly what happened. | ||
| I got I lost that thought, and then I tried to cover, and I realized this isn't he's not buying this, and then I started sweating. | ||
| And I started fucking sweating. | ||
| So I'm just gonna lose that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's normal, man. | |
| Just say you lost your thought. | ||
| It's all good. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It happens all the time. | ||
| It happens to me too. | ||
| Why is that though? | ||
| Is our brain already trying to figure out the next thing that's going to attach to it? | ||
| And by doing so, it took that the main thing and just dismissed it. | ||
| Perhaps. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| It's also brains are just not that good. | ||
| Huh. | ||
| You know, they're they're pretty good compared to chimp pansies and dogs and stuff like that. | ||
| But you know, they have a lot of issues. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Just like we were talking about your memories. | ||
| Like my m my memories of my whole life are like a series of blurry snapshots that I can go, oh yeah. | ||
| Then we went there. | ||
| Oh yeah, that happened. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh yeah. | |
| There's very few memories that I have that are like rock solid memories. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I totally get that. | ||
| And there's a little thing in the book where I talk about memories are tricky. | ||
| And is it the is it a story someone told me? | ||
| Is it is it is it me in that moment, or is it a is it a you know uh a creased photo I saw in an old album in the 70s or 80s? | ||
| Is it was the memory given to me or or did I did I create it? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, and there's also the the real possibility that you have false memories and people do that all the time. | ||
| And they they've even shown that they can introduce memories into people's minds and and then with enough sort of uh encouragement or revisiting it, that person will accept it as a a pure memory and it actually happened to them. | ||
| Yeah, and they'll they'll talk about it like outside of that, and they'll have no knowledge that it was a false memory. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah, because it's just not a good system. | ||
| It's a system designed to keep you away from scary things. | ||
| Like there's the wolf, oh, get away from the wolf. | ||
| You know wolves are bad. | ||
| I remember, I remember wolves are bad. | ||
| That's the spider that's poisoned. | ||
| Get away from that spider. | ||
| That's spider that's poison. | ||
| But like day to day, uh every day normal shit, it's like how much of a memory does it really need to keep. | ||
| It's just your brain's just not that good. | ||
| And then and then even in and then so do certain do um certain memories then get overlaid with um a a newer version of that okay. | ||
| Yeah, they get narratives. | ||
| And you and you start repeating the memory, and your memory becomes of you repeating the memory. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So it's like you don't even really have the memory anymore. | ||
| You have you know how to say it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Didn't that happen with um with the that one Kaczynski witness? | ||
| Did it? | ||
| With a unibomber witness? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Yeah, because that's why the first uh composite that was put out really uh ultimately wound up looking nothing like the actual guy. | ||
| Oh, interesting. | ||
| Yeah, there was a thing that yeah, there was a thing where her memory was corrupted by a different description from somebody else. | ||
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| Well, there's also the factor that the unibomber was such a traumatic event that this person was probably super freaked out, which is when your memory's the worst. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Yeah, that's why eyewitness accounts of like murders and chaos, they're really bad. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| They're really bad. | ||
| Very unreliable. | ||
| There's some really really awful percentage about when even when they wind up in a in a courtroom. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like the like the determining from the person, that guy, that it's like sometimes it's as high as like sixty percent that they're just wrong. | ||
| Yeah, and then they'll convince themselves that they're right because they've already said it, so then the ego gets involved. | ||
| And then, you know, it's just traumatic events leave you you're in a high state of anxiety and you're not thinking clearly. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You're freaked out. | ||
| And you don't like when when they have events like like say like 911, um, if you were anywhere near that and you saw like people jump off the buildings and and fall to their deaths, or like your memories of that are probably really clear because it was fucking crazy. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| But your memories of people that you might have saw that were running away, or maybe you saw a guy in a van and you looked fishy, or maybe this or maybe that. | ||
| It's like and then a few days go by and you're you probably haven't slept well, you're all freaked out. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Your memory's probably a mess. | ||
| It's probably filled with the news now, and then there's other people's eyewitness accounts, and and you know, you don't know what the fuck happened. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You you you know, you obviously you see someone die, see someone jump off a building, you're gonna remember that. | ||
| But there's some stuff that it's just our my you know, this is one of the scariest things about transhumanism is that it's really appealing in the idea that if they give you a little hard drive in your brain, and now from now on, every time you want a memory, you can go just like you know, you look on your phone, like your iPhone on this day in 2017, you're like, Oh, look at us. | ||
| That's cool. | ||
| You're gonna be able to do that in your brain. | ||
| You know, and the way that we're gonna buy into it is because our memory sucks. | ||
| That's how they're gonna sell it to us. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, do you remember your phone number when you were a kid? | ||
| Um no, but I remember my address because it rhymed. | ||
| That's nice. | ||
| Yeah, it was 7212 Birdview Avenue Malibu. | ||
| You used to remember your phone number. | ||
| What happened? | ||
| It goes away because your memory sucks. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I I I I know my parents' number because they still have a landline. | ||
| Oh, they're still rocking the landline. | ||
| Yeah, they are, yeah. | ||
| And they have an answering machine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| That during dinner they haven't really turned it down. | ||
| Oh, and then people start talking in the background. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| But it's just part of it. | ||
| It's part of the experience. | ||
| They're rocking a landline with an answer machine in 2025. | ||
| That is probably the way to do it. | ||
| I used to love the answer machine. | ||
| Would you come home, the light would be flashing like someone likes me. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Somebody called. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It was cool. | ||
| It's like you had a dog coming home to wait like to visit you when you came home. | ||
| Like, oh, look. | ||
| It's like induced Bigelow when it's like he's at his lowest point, and the thing in the light is never blinking. | ||
| I forgot about that. | ||
| You have no no new messages. | ||
| Yeah, that was a wild time where you could get phone calls. | ||
| That's another thing is like you got famous before the internet too, which is a different world. | ||
| It's a different world because there's not that many of you. | ||
| There's way less famous people. | ||
| There's way more famous people now. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You got famous like super duper famous at 21 years old with no internet. | ||
| Trip out. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
How does anybody expect you to come out normal? | |
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| And and it's and you try, you can't really even explain to someone that that the wasn't around during all that. | ||
| You can't really explain what it felt like because they they look at it as the things that were missing. | ||
| And and there wasn't anything missing. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It was about having to really be engaged in everything you were doing. | ||
| You know, you had to show up to to you know, uh to gain to to get a like, you had to enter the building. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| You know, you had to go to on a talk show, you had to attend a junket. | ||
| You you know what I'm saying? | ||
| And you couldn't and nobody knew nobody knew what the behind the scenes of your movie looked like until you know, years later on the DVD feature or or the VHS feature. | ||
| Right that they finally saw some of that stuff. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It wasn't it wasn't uh all access 247 365. | ||
| And for some people they can't leave it alone. | ||
| They they have to live stream during the day. | ||
| They're live streaming from their trailer, they're live streaming on in their car on the way home. | ||
| They're like Yeah, what is that about? | ||
| They're nuts. | ||
| They're just locked into this weird new world that we're living in. | ||
| But is it I mean, is it because there's genuinely people that are tuning in with enthusiasm that are looking forward to that live stream in the car ride home, or because the person or is it a combination? | ||
| I think it's those things, and it's also that thing that you said that you didn't ever get, they're scared of. | ||
| You didn't ever get alone time. | ||
| Just just time to decompress and think. | ||
| Just be by yourself. | ||
| No phone, no TV, just fucking sit on the couch and just like cat catch your breath. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And they don't want that. | ||
| That's they're scared of that. | ||
| I like that. | ||
| So they're just constantly engaged with something. | ||
| I like entire days of that. | ||
| Ooh, that's nice. | ||
| Alone on the couch. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Watching TV. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's nice. | |
| It's nice to just shut off, right? | ||
| It really is. | ||
| It's uh all work, no play. | ||
| Not good. | ||
| Not good at all. | ||
| Not good. | ||
| Bad for you. | ||
| And bad for your work too. | ||
| Because it makes you just kind of it gets dreary. | ||
| You don't you don't have the same enthusiasm for it anymore. | ||
| You know, it's like you need discipline, but you also need enthusiasm. | ||
| You know what I was gonna say earlier. | ||
| Thanks. | ||
| Okay, all right. | ||
| The memory just you know, uh dr dropped another uh token in the in the in the slot. | ||
| Um is that uh now no, it's you know, it doesn't even connect. | ||
| It doesn't? | ||
| Um Let's find out. | ||
| Well, no, no, and then I I actually forgot it again. | ||
| How about that? | ||
| Is that fucking nuts? | ||
| It's normal. | ||
| It's normal. | ||
| When you um when you first got Platoon, did you have any idea like what the fuck was gonna happen? | ||
| I didn't. | ||
| I didn't. | ||
| Is that for for people today to to understand how big that movie was? | ||
| It was it was one of the very first realistic war movies. | ||
| And I think very importantly, it was done by Oliver Stone, who was actually a veteran of the Vietnam War. | ||
| You remembering what you wrote down? | ||
| Just that piece. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'm not gonna forget it again. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Pardon. | ||
| Sorry. | ||
| But that it was it was a different kind of war movie, you know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It um much in the lines of your dad's movie. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, in that that was a very different kind of war movie as well. | ||
| Yeah, Apocalypse from here, Platoon, you know, boots on the ground. | ||
| Um the script didn't read like it was going to be a masterpiece. | ||
| The the script read um like it like a kind of like a docudrama sort of movie of the week. | ||
| It didn't you didn't read that script and say, oh wow, okay, yeah, this is the one. | ||
| People are gonna really wow, they're gonna worship this thing. | ||
| It didn't the dialogue was very clipped and very um very specific. | ||
| Um it it you kind of never really knew where you were in the script in the scene descriptions. | ||
| You know, it it the script was so lean, I think it was like barely a hundred pages. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Really? | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Um so but I I I I didn't realize sort of um what we were doing until we were actually doing it. | ||
| Usually I can read a scene and get a sense of you know what my responsibilities are gonna be or how we're gonna break it down, or at least you know, how how I'm gonna see it on the screen. | ||
| And I couldn't I couldn't do that with Platoon because all the terrain, all the scenes, everything kind of felt very similar, you know. | ||
| Really yeah, and the original title was The Platoon. | ||
| You think it's a as big a hit if he keeps the the Yeah, I don't think it matters. | ||
| It's a great movie. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| But we started to feel it as as we got deeper into it. | ||
| And and and Oliver did something brilliant where he he decided to film it in continuity. | ||
| Like from page one day one all the way to the final day was the final page. | ||
| And that and that gave us a chance to like when something was finished, you were done with it. | ||
| And and you didn't have to know how you were gonna react or how you already reacted to something that hadn't happened yet. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And when people died in the movie, they got sent home. | ||
| They were just like the next day, they were just gone. | ||
| I guess he wanted us to feel that sense of just someone gone, that loss that that you know, sadness. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Now I'm not saying that I I would know how that felt in the real thing, but we bonded really, you know, pretty pretty yeah, we were bonded in a way that um because we we were the only people that we had in the middle of that country in the middle of that jungle in the middle of that movie. | ||
| Um so you really missed somebody when they were suddenly gone. | ||
| I would love to ask. | ||
| I mean, I've had Oliver on a couple of times, but I would love to ask him what it's like to make a movie about a war that he was starring in and like what kind of uh b bizarre mental conflicts Yeah, did he didn't get into any of that stuff when you really talked a little bit about his experience in Vietnam, but I don't think we really talked about Did we ever we talk about m the making of Platoon? | ||
| We got so heavy into the JFK assassination uh we hardly covered anything else. | ||
| Especially the last time he was on. | ||
| The last time he was on was on they were doing that Showtime JFK documentary. | ||
| It was a Showtime thing, right? | ||
| Wasn't it? | ||
| I think it was, yeah. | ||
| Where there was a multi part piece that he put together. | ||
| His recall is insane. | ||
| It's insane. | ||
| It is you have a conversation with him, he's pulling up dates, he's got no bo I mean, how old is Oliver at this point in time? | ||
| Um upper 70s? | ||
| I just turned 60. | ||
| So if he was in seventy eight. | ||
| He's seventy eight seventy eight years old. | ||
| Okay, rock solid memory. | ||
| I mean, rock solid. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| The dude was just pulling up dates and names, and Alan Dulles did this, and Harry Ann. | ||
| Well, it was just like the entire Warren Commission report. | ||
| It's like citing different passages in it. | ||
| It's bananas. | ||
| That's deep. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Has he landed on like what can he can he point to? | ||
| Or is it seven? | ||
| But there is a lot of people that wanted him dead, and for sure, there was a lot of fuckery going on with the Warren Commission. | ||
| For sure. | ||
| Right. | ||
| There's a lot of nonsense with the autopsies. | ||
| There's a lot of nonsense with the single bullet going through both him and Connolly and leaving more bullet fragments in Connolly's wrist than that magic bullet was missing, the one they found. | ||
| It's like bullshit. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| The story's filled with bullshit. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And no one really knew how much bullshit it was until um they had that video that they played of the Zapruder film on the Geraldo Rivera show. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| When Dick Gregory came on and who was a comedian, which was pretty wild, came on and had the footage of the Kennedy assassination. | ||
| Everybody sees Kennedy's head go back into the left, and you like. | ||
| What happened there? | ||
| And you immediately apply just simple common physics to it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, especially anybody who's ever fired a weapon. | ||
| Also, it clearly looks like he got shot in the chest, too. | ||
| Like when he grabs his neck. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's clearly he got shot right there. | ||
| And there's always that talk about doing a trake. | ||
| But you know, there's two different autopsies. | ||
| Right. | ||
| There's the autopsy in Dallas that says it's an entry wound. | ||
| And then there's the autopsy in Bethesda, Maryland that says it's tracheotomy. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Two different autopsies. | ||
| Make up your mind. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it also looks like by the time they got to Bethesda, they kind of glued his head back together again. | ||
| Or at least put the pieces back to take a photo of it. | ||
| It's like more was missing from what they were talking about in Dallas than the Bethesda. | ||
| That's the shot where the gloved hand is like looks like it's pointing, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's a great book called Best Evidence by David Lifton, and he was an accountant. | ||
| And they he had some sort of assignment involving the Warren Commission report. | ||
| And so he decided to do is read the entire thing. | ||
| And so in the reading of the entire thing, he finds so many contradictions, so many things that don't make any sense that he starts becoming obsessed. | ||
| And then he finds out how many people who are witnesses to the assassination wind up dying mysteriously. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Off the charts. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Off the charts. | ||
| Like 95% of them? | ||
| All those people that were hanging around like a giant ton of them. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Died in car accidents. | ||
| Weird fucking. | ||
| Who is the guy in the train tower? | ||
| Guy named Bowers, right? | ||
| Who is Bowers? | ||
| He was the guy that saw Badge Man. | ||
| He saw people behind the knoll. | ||
| He saw the exchange of the rifle. | ||
| He saw all did he die weird. | ||
| He died uh I think he had a heart attack on a train track and then also got hit by the train. | ||
| I could be wrong, but it was one of those type of things. | ||
| But of course. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then but uh wasn't it what was the who who's the guy uh who's standing at the when the curb explodes, like near the underpass. | ||
| Oh yeah, that's the guy. | ||
| That's the reason why they had had to come up with the magic bullet theory. | ||
| Is that Teague? | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| What's his name? | ||
| I don't remember. | ||
| Did he die weird? | ||
| Probably. | ||
| I don't know if he died weird, but he was hit with a ricochet. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And because they knew that the overpass that's why they had that adds a bullet. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| They had to add that and they're like, okay, how do we fix this? | ||
| Right. | ||
| What about we said only one guy did it? | ||
| It's only three shots, so how do we come up with uh a reasonable excuse? | ||
| And they came up with the magic bullet. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I I I and I think the uh the the architect of that was uh was Spectre, you know. | ||
| I think it was our own spectrum. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah, I think it was his idea. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
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| They just bullshit people. | ||
| But back then you can get away with that. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, it was pretty easy to just bullshit people. | ||
| And you see all the additional cameras, like Babushka Lady, for instance, right? | ||
| And and all that stuff just confiscated and never Yeah. | ||
| Well, they had the Zerpruder film for a long time. | ||
| I think Time Life had it. | ||
| And then somehow or another Dick Gregory got it. | ||
| Was it ever released with missing frames? | ||
| Wasn't there the jump cut when he goes behind the sign and then it jumps? | ||
| Because they didn't they take out the the the fatal head hit at some point and then tried to sell that? | ||
| Perhaps. | ||
| They probably did at one point in time. | ||
| Um but now obviously you could see the whole thing. | ||
| And then it's also been AI enhanced. | ||
| I don't know if you've seen the AI enhanced one. | ||
| I haven't no it's grisly. | ||
| It's even more gruesome. | ||
| It's gruesome. | ||
| I mean, I I think he was shot from multiple angles simultaneously. | ||
| That's what I think. | ||
| I think he was shot both from the back and from the front. | ||
| And I think Lee Harvey Oswald, if he wasn't involved, he certainly wasn't innocent. | ||
| He he was probably the guy that they were gonna frame it on. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But I think he was in on the whole thing. | ||
| Anyway, and I think he killed a cop afterwards as well. | ||
| Tip it, no, tip it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Have you ever read that thing about um because uh Tippett's nickname back at the precinct was JFK read this thing? | ||
| Then they show the side by side of how much they really look like each other. | ||
| Really? | ||
| So they're saying he was the body they used for the transfer when they flew with the empty coffin, you know, all that stuff about uh yeah, it's I mean it is so there's so many just r you know warrants to travel down and there's so many angles to explore. | ||
| There's too many. | ||
| There's so many rabbit holes to go down. | ||
| We were introduced to it as kids because dad played both candidates. | ||
| So we were seeing documentaries at like, you know, I would have been ten or eleven, and Million was thirteen or fourteen. | ||
| And so we've been involved in this thing for a lot longer than we should have been. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| We had access to this stuff. | ||
| And so um was just nuts that no one was brought to justice, and we know for sure more people were involved than Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald. | ||
| There was more people involved. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| No one was brought to justice, and they got away with it. | ||
| We don't want to think that they get away with things like killing the president. | ||
| But they did. | ||
| In broad daylight. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And blaming it on a lone gunman, a lone nut. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Who who they already had a full description and and and rapture and rundown and everything about it. | ||
| They printed articles about him before it was even over. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then the Jack Ruby thing, where Jack Ruby goes completely insane in jail after he's visited by Jolly West, who is the head of MK Ultra. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Who is like routinely dosing people with acid. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He cooked Jolly Jolly West cooked Jack Ruby's brain in jail. | ||
| And just left him insane. | ||
| He's the guy from what's the book that it's Chaos. | ||
| From Chaos. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I actually read Chaos before it got all the attention. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um friend of mine gave it to me, and I was, and I alright. | ||
| I'll uh I'll read a couple pages, and I was like, oh. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Oh, okay. | ||
| This is this is yeah, this is one of the best books. | ||
| Different take. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I'm curious how you felt about the documentary they did about it. | ||
| I didn't watch it. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| I I thought it was going to be too quick. | ||
| 90 minutes. | ||
| I didn't think was like enough time. | ||
| It's only 90 minutes, right? | ||
| I thought it was the first episode. | ||
| Oh, you're going to be able to do that. | ||
| So I watched it sort of Like a data gathering thing that you usually do with the first episode and kind of just seeing where the what the director's doing and what kind of stuff they're laying out early. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So and then when it ended and I didn't see that second episode with the timer, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Uh-huh. | |
| And I was oh, that's and I thought it was a complete uh I thought it did radically underserved the book. | ||
| Yeah, maybe they could try again. | ||
| They need to that needs to be like an eight part two-hour a piece series. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah, because it's so nuts. | ||
| The story is so nuts. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Just the provable actual facts are so nuts. | ||
| Yeah that very likely Charles Manson was a CIA asset. | ||
| Very likely they had groomed him when he was in prison and taught him mind control techniques when people were high on acid, taught him how to be sober but pretend he's on acid and how to interact with these people that are on acid and shape their mind and even get them to commit murder. | ||
| All of which is fact. | ||
| Yeah, no, it's it's it's it's it's I would say it's insane, but so much of it is I don't want to say provable, but but but has enough supporting evidence to make a compelling case. | ||
| And I love that the guy starts out just like uh yeah, yeah, you know, just a kind of a normal celebrity assignment for Premier Magazine, right? | ||
| Yeah, I've been on that magazine. | ||
| I had that cover twice. | ||
| My story didn't wind up like that. | ||
| I think that it was a story for a magazine, and it was just about the anniversary of the murders. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| That's it. | ||
| That's what it was. | ||
| Yeah you know, just give us peace, you know, so people go, wow, crazy, 25 years later. | ||
| Wow. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And then he gets obsessed and he starts realizing, well, this guy was full of shit, and that guy was corrupted. | ||
| Oh my god, look at this. | ||
| And hold on. | ||
| Who's Jolly West? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know, like what's MK Ultra? | ||
| This is real Freedom of Information Act, get the documents. | ||
| Oh my God. | ||
| Operation Midnight Climax. | ||
| The the government was running whorehouses. | ||
| They were running whorehouses and using two-way mirrors and dosing Johns and filming them. | ||
| And this has to do with Manson? | ||
| Like what what the fuck was going on? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then you realize that it was all uh uh uh a psyop to try to demonize the peace, love and stop war movement, and that what they really wanted to do was stop the anti-war movement and do something to curb the cultural change that was happening. | ||
| And so their strategy was to turn hippies into murderers. | ||
| It kind of works. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It kind of works. | ||
| Yeah, I mean it's a long way to go, but it uh I think it had the effect they were looking for. | ||
| Imagine if they didn't do that. | ||
| Like what kind of cultural change would have taken place? | ||
| Because if you think about what what happened between 1950 and 1960, it's like the world becomes a different place in ten years. | ||
| Between nineteen sixty and nineteen seventies, like, what? | ||
| This world is crazy. | ||
| The music is crazy, the culture's crazy, the movies are nuts. | ||
| Everything is wild, it's very psychedelic. | ||
| And then Nixon comes along in 1970, passes this sweeping Schedule One Act, makes all mushrooms and LSD, makes everything illegal, all to stop the civil war the civil civil rights movement and the anti-war movement at the same time when they're doing this Manson stuff. | ||
| So it was a concerted effort across the board to stop the anti-war movement and to stop the civil rights movement. | ||
| They were like, We're losing control and power. | ||
| And so I mean, it was an evil thing to do, but you kind of gotta give them credit because it's pretty brilliant. | ||
| Like they they actually pulled it off. | ||
| You think of serial killer, you think of Manson. | ||
| You think of the family. | ||
| Oh my god, these hippies are murderous, right? | ||
| A bunch of murderous freaks on drugs, cutting women's babies out of their stomachs and writing pig on the wall. | ||
| Like this is nuts. | ||
| Yeah, and they and they brought the Beatles into it. | ||
| And our own goddamn government engineered it. | ||
| They engineered, they stopped what was probably one of the most beautiful cultural shifts in this country's history. | ||
| That would have organically still kept evolving into other things that would have would have blossomed out of it and yeah, we probably would have rethought government. | ||
| We probably would have like rethought the type of people that we want as leaders. | ||
| We'd have rethought our involvement in foreign wars. | ||
| There would have been no Support for it. | ||
| We would have rethought what psychedelic drugs can do for you versus uh the bad aspects of them. | ||
| We would have rethought everything. | ||
| We would have re we would have the music would have been a lot better. | ||
| Music took a big dip. | ||
| Yeah, it did. | ||
| Music took a big dip after they got rid of the drugs that were good and brought in the coke. | ||
| But people do point to the death of the 60s uh v occurred up at Cielo Drive. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, it was effective. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, that that completely demonized any peace love and you know, any of that kind of movement, though those people became a real problem now because you're now connected to Manson. | ||
| It was instantly zero tolerance. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| Like overnight. | ||
| Kind of nuts. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Kind of nuts that it it was really all engineered by the government. | ||
| You know, it's really that in itself, in and of itself is a terrible crime. | ||
| That they sort of engineered society to their benefit so that they could maintain control. | ||
| And the way they did it is by getting a a horrible con who had been in and out of jail his whole life and teaching him how to run a cult. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Right. | ||
| A murderous cult. | ||
| And setting up at a free clinic in the hate. | ||
| Where my wife's mom went. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Yes. | ||
| My wife's mom was a hippie. | ||
| You have a connection to this. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| My wife's mom went, she was a hippie in Haight Ashbury, and she went to the Hate Ashbury Free Clint. | ||
| Treated at that clinic. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yes. | |
| Wow. | ||
| You know, that clinic didn't shut down until after Tom O'Neill's book came out. | ||
| That clinic would have been running for over fifty years. | ||
| So it ran until like 2022. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| When did it close? | ||
| It closed shortly after that book came out. | ||
| They're like, hey, we're good. | ||
| I could have gone there while I was reading the book. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| The CIA was a running treatment. | ||
| What a trip. | ||
| That is so nuts. | ||
| And that clinic also connected to Jolly West. | ||
| That clinic also connected to all sorts of other marijuana experiences. | ||
| San Francisco is where they were doing Operation Midnight Climax. | ||
| That's where they had a brothel. | ||
|
unidentified
|
These are the people that are supposed to be like protect and serve. | |
| Look out for your best interests. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| These motherfuckers are creating Manson and a completely shifting society and turning people into whatever the fuck we became in the 70s and the 80s. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| The book came out June 25th, 2019. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And the clinic closed July 2019. | ||
| Seriously. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Twenty months later. | ||
| Like fuck. | ||
| We're we got busted. | ||
| That dude read the foreword and was like, guys, we got a problem. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They that's probably how long it took them just to clear the building out. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| And try to figure out whether they're gonna kill Tom O'Neill. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Has he been on the show? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Oh, wow, okay. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| What's he like? | ||
| He's great. | ||
| He's great. | ||
| He's actually my good friend Greg Fitzsimmons. | ||
| He was his neighbor in New York. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| When he first started working on this. | ||
| And then he became his neighbor also in Venice. | ||
| Like he's been his neighbor for like 20 years. | ||
| So Greg's followed him from this entire journey. | ||
| And Greg had been telling me about it for years. | ||
| I'm like, when's your friend gonna get that fucking book done? | ||
| And then finally he says, tells me the whole story, how it took so long, why he's like, you gotta have him on. | ||
| The book is insane. | ||
| I'm like, let's go. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So we had him on and it was incre uh first of all. | ||
| I listened to the book first before I had him on. | ||
| I listened to the audio version. | ||
| I was like, this is nuts. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| This is nuts. | ||
| If this is all true, this is fucking insane. | ||
| And it's all true. | ||
| So it's they really did engineer a a murderous cult of of hippies. | ||
| And and almost used um the clinic um as a as a casting couch as as an audition process for which girls they thought would be the most uh vulnerable, yeah. | ||
| Crazy yeah. | ||
| Crazy that the CIA was doing that. | ||
| It's just I thought they were supposed to just operate on foreign soil. | ||
| I know they were, but you know, sometimes things get messy. | ||
| But it's like they you you talk to like your average boomer who just watches uh cable news and reads the newspaper, they're they never believe this in a million years. | ||
| And they'll hear us talking about it thinking, come on, guys. | ||
| Oh, you're out of your mind. | ||
| Come on. | ||
| And but they but they but they also will never read the book. | ||
| No, never read the book, and then when things get Proven, they never apologize. | ||
| Imagine that. | ||
| Never apologize for your baseless conspiracy theories that all turned out to be true. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because, you know, the conspiracies are fucking real. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| This this conspiracy theory pejorative that they really started foisting on the American public during the Kennedy assassination was for that very reason. | ||
| They wanted to make it ridiculous for you to be in. | ||
| That's what the term was coined. | ||
| That's where the term became popularized. | ||
| Apparently the term existed before that. | ||
| We we we researched this, right? | ||
| Didn't we uh Google the original term of conspiracy theorists? | ||
| It's quite a bit earlier, but it was never like a thing in the public zeitgeist. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It became a thing during the Kennedy assassination because a lot of people were crushing it. | ||
| Because it looked weird. | ||
| You know, everything it even the people that hadn't seen the Zapruder film, everything just seemed off. | ||
| It seemed off and there was rumblings amongst people that were there that there were the big one was the shots from the grassy knoll. | ||
| Many people talked about gunshots. | ||
| And that one photo where there's like 15 people pointing to the same spot. | ||
| You see smoke near where the the bushes are, and it's not a good photo, but it's good enough that you go, hmm. | ||
| It's just too it was too uniform. | ||
| You know, people were they all were pointing. | ||
| We heard shots from back there. | ||
| There is a thing that does happen. | ||
| Um, especially if you look at Delee Plaza if you were driven through. | ||
| I have I've walked the whole crime scene, yeah. | ||
| It's weird to be there. | ||
| First of all, it's so little. | ||
| It's you can't believe how close everything is. | ||
| It's real little. | ||
| And that they but that they sent him into that tight turn and put him into that convertible pickle jar. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Completely planned. | ||
| And you watch the motorcycle cops drop back. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| Just drop back. | ||
| Which is there's something I read. | ||
| Um, did you ever read um The Man Who Killed Kennedy? | ||
| I think it's uh Jim Mars. | ||
| Do you remember Jim Marvin? | ||
| Yes, yeah. | ||
| Did you ever have him on? | ||
| No, I didn't. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| He's he's didn't he pass? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He wrote Psy Spies, which um was in it all about remote viewing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh yeah, yeah. | |
| He's a trip. | ||
| He was deep into everything. | ||
| I go back and forth on that remote viewing scene. | ||
| I do too. | ||
| I do too. | ||
| But um there's something in one of his books um, and I've never been able to find it anywhere else. | ||
| It's almost like this little detail was scrubbed from the internet that the the Morse code signal for victory um right after the fatal headshot went out over every Dallas police radio. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa. | |
| Have you ever heard that? | ||
| Oh no. | ||
| Okay, I read that. | ||
| I this is disclaimer. | ||
| I'm not coming up with this. | ||
| This is not my original data. | ||
| Um, but yeah, when I read that, that was that was just that was creepy. | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
| And I don't know that he would have just added that for color. | ||
| That's not something you just throw out there. | ||
| Yeah, that's that's a weird thing to add. | ||
| Victory. | ||
| Well, a lot of people hated Kennedy back then. | ||
| It's hard for us to reconcile now today, because we think of him as like one of our greatest presidents. | ||
| Of course, because he got murdered. | ||
| We always love him after they get shot. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| But when he was alive, this this was like half the country fucking hated him. | ||
| And then there was the Bay of Pigs disaster where we lost a lot of people because Kennedy didn't give him air support. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| He wasn't told about the invasion until like last moment, and air support was crucial to its success. | ||
| He denied air support. | ||
| A bunch of people died that weren't going to die. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so those guys on the ground. | ||
| I my friend Evan has a theory, my friend Evan who owns Black Rifle Coffee, who was a ranger himself. | ||
| I met him. | ||
| He's the best. | ||
| I love him. | ||
| I love him to death. | ||
| Um, but he said, like those guys, those are hard-nosed killers. | ||
| And if they think that they lost their brothers because this fucking piece of shit didn't give them the air support that they deserved, it was Kennedy's idea. | ||
| And you tell them that you want to get that guy killed, like, oh, fucking sign me up. | ||
| Those guys would do it. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| He's like, those would be the type of guys he would have do something like that, and they would probably tell you this would be a perfect place to do it. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| That tight little turn. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Anybody who says, by the way, because conspiracies get everybody gets binary on this one way or another. | ||
| I believe this, right? | ||
| Anybody says that Lee Harvey Oswald couldn't make that shot has never shot a rifle. | ||
| You're full of shit. | ||
| If it the rifle's on, it was not that far. | ||
| I'm not saying he could do it a hundred times out of a hundred. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But the possibility of him having that rifle ready, he's got a scope, he's got arrest. | ||
| The the The car comes into view, you roll the sight onto his back, you squeeze off around squeeze off around, whack, and you get a headshot in there. | ||
| That's a hundred percent possible. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I just don't buy it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I don't buy I don't I don't think he acted alone. | ||
| If he did do it, he might have done it. | ||
| He might have shot at him. | ||
| He might have even hit him once. | ||
| There was other people. | ||
| There was he was the Patsy, and I think when he said I'm just a Patsy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| The way he said it was not like a guy who murdered somebody. | ||
| The way he said it was like, I can't believe they set me up. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Like, so I think he was in on a bunch of it. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| I just don't think he pulled the trigger. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Or if he did pull the trigger, he was one of many people that pulled the trigger. | ||
| That's what I think. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But there was a lot of other people saying, oh, he could have made those shots because the rifle scope was off. | ||
| That's you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. | ||
| Because I could get your rifle scope to be off in five seconds. | ||
| Okay, if your rifle scope's perfect, is it zeroed in? | ||
| Bang, I drop it on the ground. | ||
| Try it again. | ||
| It'll be off by six inches at two hundred yards. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| You're gonna move that thing. | ||
| It's they're fragile. | ||
| They require micro adjustments with little Allen wrenches and hex keys and shit. | ||
| And people they don't torque them too much. | ||
| You get it dialed in perfect. | ||
| On a on a $37 rifle. | ||
| On a rifle from 1963. | ||
| From the back of a magazine. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Of course that thing can get knocked off. | ||
| Easy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like almost instantly you can knock that thing off. | ||
| There is a thing about the tree though. | ||
| What about the tree? | ||
| That he had to shoot through a tree. | ||
| Because what they've done in a lot of the reenactments, um, yeah, you know, supporting that he was the lone gunman. | ||
| Um they they did uh cut out part of the tree that Kennedy's behind. | ||
| They cut it out for the reenactment? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So yeah, so he would have a clear field of view. | ||
| But he had a clear view field of view for at least a brief amount of time. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And that's all you should. | ||
| That's all you need if you were good. | ||
| And if you practice, and I'm assuming that if you're gonna go shoot the president, you'll probably get used to firing off a few rounds. | ||
| You'll probably set up a target. | ||
| You're not gonna just hope that your accuracy is still there for three years ago. | ||
| Yeah, you're gonna practice. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So if you're gonna practice, you're gonna be even e uh quicker at wrapping a new round. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| He could have done it. | ||
| I just don't buy it. | ||
| It just none of the evidence seems to point in that direction, including all the evidence that they try to fabricate. | ||
| Like the magic bullet one is nuts. | ||
| Anyone who's ever shot anything with a bullet who looks at that and believes that went through two people and broke bones. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That looks like it shot got shot into a swimming pool. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It doesn't look like it ever hit anything. | ||
| No, and I've had people like you, you know, debate me and t taking the side of the magic bullet. | ||
| They're not they're free. | ||
| And like look me right in the eyes and do and believe it, and I'm just like, okay, well, cool. | ||
| This is where we have to just they're out of their mind. | ||
| Yeah, we have to walk away. | ||
| They're out of their mind. | ||
| It did they don't know. | ||
| I could show them like let's go, let's go take a bone from a cow. | ||
| Let's set up a bone from a cow and we'll I'll I'll shoot it at a hundred yards. | ||
| One bone. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Just one bone. | ||
| Just one bone. | ||
| And let's take a look at that bullet. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| It's not gonna look anything like that. | ||
| It's gonna be all fucked up. | ||
| And there's the fragments, there's missing fragments from the bullet that are in Connolly's wrist that are more fragments that are missing from the actual bullet they're attributing to the wound. | ||
| You can't. | ||
| It's just but they did it. | ||
| That's what's nuts. | ||
| We can see you can talk about it till the cows come home. | ||
| Do you know about the palm print though? | ||
| Oh, that um that they linked the rifle to Oswald because of a palm print on the knock when it they went to visit him in the morgue. | ||
| Yeah, they didn't get it till after the autopsy. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Huh. | ||
| It wasn't there, and then surprise. | ||
| How convenient. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And also, like, says who? | ||
| Says who his fingerprint was on it. | ||
| You could just say that back then. | ||
| 1963. | ||
| The government says we found a finger, but Oswald doesn't have a lawyer. | ||
| No one's representing him. | ||
| He's dead. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, no one's gonna say, my client is innocent. | ||
| He's fucking dead. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Pin it on him. | ||
| Nobody gives a shit. | ||
| And everybody just mourned the fact that the president was dead. | ||
| And then, you know, all of a sudden you got Lyndon Johnson full steam ahead with Vietnam War. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's nuts. | ||
| Yeah, if you usually look what look at what happens after the major event, it like it's a big thing. | ||
| Things got very different. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They got very different. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's when you really start to see like Kennedy was trying to be a real president. | |
| And they were like, none of that. | ||
| Yeah, it was a Federal Reserve. | ||
| It was Vietnam. | ||
| It was like all these big, like really important. | ||
| Big things. | ||
| He wanted to get us out of the he wanted to kill the CIA. | ||
| He wanted to do a lot of things. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they were like, not today, sir. | ||
| And then that's the the real argument is like we haven't really had a president since Kennedy. | ||
| Everything after that has been the the president's more of a a speaker. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| The the giant machine behind it continues to run exactly as it always has. | ||
| Yeah, I mean, um and and uh just from where I sit, there's there's not a lot you can do about it. | ||
| There's nothing you can do about it. | ||
| You can talk, but look, if they haven't done anything about the Kennedy assassination, you can't do shit. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No. | |
| You you you you could put pressure on people. | ||
| And you um you definitely can hurt their chances of getting re-elected if people find out that they're very disappointed in you for sure not supporting this or not telling us about that or lying about this, or you were involved in that. | ||
| Yeah, but other than that, like there's not much. | ||
| Not much you can do. | ||
| Yeah, that's why I don't really weigh in anymore. | ||
| It's probably smart. | ||
| So you know, it just it's feels like uh I don't know, it's wasted energy. | ||
| It definitely is a lot of that. | ||
| But it's also like a show, you know. | ||
| You could watch the show. | ||
| Hey, have you sort of heard the watch the latest episode of the Epstein Files? | ||
| Like, what's going on? | ||
| Yeah, you know, it turns into a show. | ||
| It turns into a parlor game also, you know. | ||
| Right? | ||
| That's that's how my dad described the OJ case. | ||
| Uh he said, This is like the greatest parlor game ever. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know. | ||
| Boy, I remember watching that verdict on TV live in my apartment. | ||
| With this girl I was dating, she was a really sweet girl, and she couldn't believe that he was innocent. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| She didn't understand it. | ||
| She was so confused. | ||
| Yeah, it didn't like it. | ||
| She was like, no. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No, how? | ||
| She just kept she kept like putting her hands over her face. | ||
| No, no. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| I was on a on a mountaintop in Mexico doing a uh kind of kind of a you know, low rent sci-fi film called The Arrival. | ||
| I love that movie. | ||
| Oh, don't say that was a low rent movie. | ||
| I love that movie. | ||
| No turme out of that movie. | ||
| Dave Foley. | ||
| Dave Foley, who's a good friend of mine from uh news radio. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Uh when we were on news radio together, he fucking loved that because this is a so underrated sci-fi movie. | ||
| I'm like, okay, cool. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And I checked it out, it was great. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| It was it was the first um film that actually incorporated a mashup of puppets and CGI at the same time. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Because it at that point it was either one or the other, and and the other hadn't fully really arrived yet. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, yeah. | ||
| Um so that was kind of cool. | ||
| But no, we were um I was so hoping for the day off to be back at the hotel because everybody knew the night before that the that the verdict was coming, right? | ||
| So we had to shoot this scene, and and there was a there was a prop man, and he had the only this is ninety-five, right? | ||
| He had the only uh cell phone, and it had like half a bar, and it's in and it's starting to rain, and he's got his ear and his his buddy's got his phone in LA up to the TV when they're about to read the verdict. | ||
| So we all gather around the prop man and we're watching him, and he's kind of leaning to keep the signal to keep it to kind of keep you know connected, and then we can see when he hears it. | ||
| He slumps a little bit, right? | ||
| Takes the phone from his ear and slams it into the mud and screams that motherfucker got away with murder. | ||
| Wow, echoed through the mist. | ||
| It was gnarly. | ||
| That's a wild scene. | ||
| That's how I learned about the OJ verdict. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Dave Anderson was there with me. | ||
| He's a buddy I grew up with. | ||
| He's in the book. | ||
| He's a he's a he's a two time Oscar winning uh FX makeup artist, you know. | ||
| And so, yeah, if you ever run across Dave the Rave, uh Anderson, ask him about the OJ verdict. | ||
| That's a cra just a crazy scene. | ||
| Imagine a guy reacting like that. | ||
| He was our only connection to it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, and everybody was so invested in this thing. | |
| And it was really hard to go. | ||
| And that was like do you remember time of day that might have happened? | ||
| Kind of late morning, sort of, or was it in the afternoon? | ||
| I don't remember at all. | ||
| We still had a a pretty sizable day to shoot. | ||
| Oh it was really hard to regain focus. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And feel like what we were doing still mattered. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because there there was a uh the there was a giant just there was like a murmur in the universe at that point, you know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Like something it felt like something had been taken from us. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, civility. | ||
| Did you see the last um or the most recent uh OJ documentary? | ||
| No. | ||
| It's um It's Murder Mayhem and Blood. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think it's got three Murder Mayhem and Blood. | |
| Something Murder Mayhem and Lies. | ||
| Uh something I'm probably way off with that title. | ||
| No. | ||
|
unidentified
|
No, it's actually it's a the latest OJ documentary. | |
| Well, I guess Manhunt would be the latest. | ||
| This yeah, this is the one that that was before that. | ||
| And it's it's broken down at the crime scene by uh two like expert veteran uh recreationists. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, it's it it's a trip. | ||
| Do you do you do you watch any OJ stuff that comes out? | ||
| No. | ||
| No, I try not to. | ||
| Because it's just too weird. | ||
| I okay. | ||
| Do you think there was something else there? | ||
| No, I think he killed his wife. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And he killed Ron Goldman. | ||
| And he got away with it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's just nuts. | ||
| It's just you know, it's weird. | ||
| You watch him on like naked gun and you're like, that guy? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That guy murdered his wife with a knife? | ||
| Like what? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And then he got away with it, and then he was just golfing. | ||
| Yeah, it was the follow-up part that didn't really support anything about what he had claimed. | ||
| You remember when he was a rapper? | ||
| Um the juices loose? | ||
| You remember that? | ||
| Oh gosh. | ||
| I think I think I just I willed that one out of my head like a like a like a king's robon and like it was a bunch of hot ladies around him. | ||
| Okay, it's coming back to me. | ||
| Yeah, he made a rap song. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah, he was like embracing the heel role at one point in time after the the guilty verdict or the not guilty verdict. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And so he he got into like rap. | ||
| But I mean, probably just just for d just for a monetary gravity. | ||
| I would imagine. | ||
| Let me punch play it. | ||
| Play the juices loose. | ||
| It's so bad. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| It's i it's is it off of YouTube? | ||
| That would be hilarious. | ||
| He had a it was part of a TV show. | ||
| He had I saw another clip recently. | ||
| Oh, that's right. | ||
| Yeah, it was like a prank show. | ||
| He was trying to prank people. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's like pri pre uh uh Jackass. | |
| Uh yeah, but I'm trying to think of the thing they had on MTV. | ||
| That they did with all the celebrities. | ||
| Couldn't think. | ||
| Oh, punk got it. | ||
| OJ was doing that? | ||
| No, but he's a big thing. | ||
| Everybody would just run away. | ||
| So he did it to a lady like walked up to her hotel room with a knife. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| That was one of his scenes? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Jesus Christ. | ||
| You got juiced is what it was called. | ||
| You got juice. | ||
| Damn. | ||
| But I don't I'm trying to find this. | ||
| Also the music video had a bunch of uh that was Naked Lady? | ||
| Yeah, it was aired on like uh pay-per-view, whatever that was the Spice Channel or something like that. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Huh. | |
| Spike remember the Spice Channel? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Uh but that whole thing going from that verdict to try and going back to work. | ||
| It's a picture. | ||
| It's not something video. | ||
| Oh my gosh. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Look at that. | ||
| I remember one time we were uh filming news radio, it was in the middle of that North Hollywood shootout. | ||
| Do you remember that? | ||
| I do. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And we were watching it live on TV while trying to do a sitcom. | ||
| And we were like, we probably should take some time off here. | ||
| There's a fucking war going on in the middle of North Hollywood. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah, that was that involved a lot of cocaine and steroids too. | ||
| From the from the brother. | ||
| From the guys? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, yeah. | |
| I know they were definitely on steroids. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I think they were there was probably some Or meth. | ||
| Something like that. | ||
| I think it would have kept them there for l a lot longer. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| For people don't know the story, these guys um did they h they rob a bank? | ||
| Is that what they did? | ||
| Yeah, but waited. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like could have driven away. | ||
| Could have left with all the all all all the dough. | ||
| And they decided to get in a shootout with the cops. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And killed Cops. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| I mean, and they got killed. | ||
| A bunch of cops got hit. | ||
| And the cops were like horribly outgunned. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| Cops had their nine millimeter pistols and these guys have fucking machine guns and bulletproof vests. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Kevlar helmets and they had face masks. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Now do you support that when the dude finally kills himself that it was it a simultaneous sniper shot at the same time? | ||
| I never even looked into that. | ||
| Is that one of the consumers? | ||
| Well, it's just it's yeah, that's one thing that they claim. | ||
| That he got shot and shot himself at the exact same time. | ||
| At the exact same time. | ||
| It's possible. | ||
| But why would they like what does that serve? | ||
| Like what does that maybe they were already going to shoot him and he shot himself and they didn't think he was going to shoot himself and they pulled the trigger right when he did. | ||
| Got it. | ||
| That's what I would guess, if that's the case. | ||
| But it's not like they have to be let off the hook, because at that point that dude has to be put down. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, one of the guys had already been shot, and he was shot in the leg and they didn't get him any medical help. | ||
| They knew he was going to bleed out. | ||
| You know, I think I think that was the case. | ||
| I think he got shot in his femoral artery. | ||
| Yeah, the first the first guy that says he died by this is from Wikipedia. | ||
| He died by suicide via gunshot to the head from his handgun simultaneously being hit by rifle fire from LAPD officers with one round striking and severing his spine. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| The other guy got shot twenty over twenty-nine times and died from blood loss. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I mean, what are the odds that the... | ||
| Crazy. | ||
| That the thing with the... | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That's kind of like... | ||
| Well, it sounds like there were a lot of bullets were flying in his direction. | ||
| There were 2,000 rounds were found. | ||
| Jesus, 3,000. | ||
| Like what is that weigh? | ||
| Like if you're carting that around and you've got a whole duffel of cash. | ||
| Yeah, you must have a heavy trunk. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, that is bananas. | ||
| Half was the police, but wow. | ||
| Still. | ||
| Imagine being in that neighborhood. | ||
| I think that's right. | ||
| Well the cops like went to a gun store, right? | ||
| Didn't they? | ||
| I think they didn't. | ||
| Like right when it started, and they were like, whatever you got. | ||
| You know, give us your biggest boar rifle, you know, whatever you got. | ||
| We'll take it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| How much ammo you got? | ||
| I mean, how long did that go on for? | ||
| Uh about an hour. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| They had homemade body armor, SWAT team wasn't ready for that. | ||
| They had to commandeer an armored vehicle to evacuate wounded people. | ||
| Uh yeah, then they uh that's that kind of sparked the debate for police to get more power. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Jeez. | |
| Yeah, that was a that was kind of a that was a turning point moment. | ||
| Now if you're a real conspiracy theorist, then you say, oh, MK Ultra tricked those guys into doing that so that the cops can get better to get militarized and yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Well, this is the problem with conspiracies. | ||
| People who try uh you attribute them to everything. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Everything's a conspiracy. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| But then when they do that, they kind of um they they they they uh uh harm the credibility of the ones that that can really be you know considered for for you know for for the for how we know them to be. | ||
| Yeah, and after all the extensive research, you know. | ||
| No doubt. | ||
| Yeah, there's real ones. | ||
| But I think that's also part of the thing reason why you know some really silly conspiracy theories get pushed. | ||
| I think they get pushed by bots, and I think they get pushed by paid accounts. | ||
| To water down the real ones, yeah. | ||
| To make them look stupid and they're like attach them, attach a really stupid conspiracy to a one that's legitimate. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And then it discredits the legitimate one. | ||
| Yeah, it's almost like, you know, not to introduce this, but just from afar, it's almost like the uh a lot of the QAnon stuff kind of had that effect just you know. | ||
| Um I didn't dig deep into that and don't, you know, and only know just the just the basic you know, talking points about it. | ||
| But um, but one thing I did see that was felt like a uh a constant was that there was always uh the any time they'd mentioned something that was just completely screwy, it was followed up with the ones that that that we believe to be real. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, the just kind of this big just this uh kind of just put them all in the same stuff to bullshit. | ||
| Exactly, yeah, and just just stirred that cauldron, you know. | ||
| Yeah, that's a very convenient way to bury truth. | ||
| The QAnon documentary on HBO was great. | ||
| Uh Enter the Fire, that was called Yeah, and uh something. | ||
| I didn't see it. | ||
| Into the storm. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| It's really good. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Is it? | |
| Yeah it's a multi part thing on all the people that were involved in 4chan and the creation of QAnon. | ||
| Okay, they think the original guy was, and they think another guy took it over after a while and took over the account. | ||
| Got it. | ||
| And it seems like they were just kind of fucking around at first. | ||
| But it's not definitive. | ||
| Like he's got some really good evidence that points in that direction, but it's it's just hard to know. | ||
| And you know, everyone always thought that it was someone inside the White House, there was some like secret person inside the White House. | ||
| It doesn't seem like this documentary believes that. | ||
| The guy made this documentary, but he pins it on one guy in particular that's a a tech nerd that seems to have all of the attributes of someone who could pull off a QAnon type deal. | ||
| Check out everybody super smart, you know, internet shit poster, you know, running 4chan, you know, and like that's the whole thing over there. | ||
| It's like get people to do stuff that's stupid. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like they got women to free bleed. | ||
| They they start pushing this idea that you you know it's uh the patriarchy's making you wear a tampon and you should just your menstrual cycle should just flow in your pants and who cares. | ||
| And this is like a s a sign of your strong femininity. | ||
| It was just them being crazy, and then a bunch of women just adopted it. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Not for long. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's gross. | ||
| They were like, This is stupid. | ||
| Probably last a couple weeks. | ||
| But but a bunch of women but it's that's people are really susceptible. | ||
| You could get people to do that. | ||
| Not everybody. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But it's just like the hate Ashbury free clinic thing. | ||
| Not everybody's gonna join your cult. | ||
| Right. | ||
| But if you open up a free clinic, you're gonna get enough, you know, lost children that come in through your doors. | ||
| Well, they're gonna need your legit services to start with. | ||
| Yeah, exactly. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You gotta sort it out. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's just nuts that that that's our government. | ||
| That's our our daddies, our our government daddies, the people that we're supposed to be looking to to help us lead a prosperous life and secure our standing in the world and make sure we've grow financially, and these motherfuckers did all that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, well, you know, uh ultimate power, right? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| In any form. | ||
| Well, they bring it back to stardom. | ||
| Like that's a weird power to get somebody. | ||
| It's uh especially when you're 21 years old. | ||
| Like you were. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's a weird power. | ||
| Weird amount of freedom, weird amount of like people expecting you to be kind of wild. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Yeah, and um again, that thing you talked about where you watch it happen to others, and then suddenly it's it's it's you. | ||
| Um it's uh it it's it's a lot more. | ||
| It's a lot more intoxicating. | ||
| And then I would always think, okay, so why why how were they able to control it? | ||
| Why didn't why didn't I see them enjoying it at this level? | ||
| And it wasn't about I'm gonna show them the way they should have been doing it. | ||
| It was just about, hey guys, okay, cool. | ||
| No, it's it's it it it it finally made its way over here, and and it it it can go to eleven, you know, and and and not burn the whole house down, you know, when it was still fun, when it was still creative and and and productive on some level, you know. | ||
| Um because it wasn't about uh it was still having to show up, and it was still you know, carving out enough time for the party, but also reserving enough uh you know energy for the job. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know that's the balance. | ||
| That's the balance, and some people pull it off. | ||
| Some people they're really disciplined and they pull off the work and then they pull off the partying. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| And I I was able to maintain that for for a long time, you know, and even when it flamed out like those early rehabs, and and there was always like there was a job like the day I got out. | ||
| Wow, you know, scripts showing up in rehab, and it's like they're just they're just they they want you to get they want you to get well, okay? | ||
| They want you to get better, but you know, as soon as you're out of here, you know, we got we got some good stuff for you to look at. | ||
| There's also unfortunately a romantic notion of a guy getting out of rehab. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| How many cop shows start with a guy who's down on a dumps putting a pizza in a blender for breakfast? | ||
| You know what I mean? | ||
| Like really like at his lowest of low points. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Drinking, and then maybe his daughter cries and he throws the bottles into the trash can is like, oh I'm done. | ||
| And now he's back. | ||
| And there's a romantic thing of getting your shit together. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| It's like Charlie's bad. | ||
| Better than ever. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it's uh it's you know everybody's rooting for you again. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
You know? | |
| And they and they and they're expecting the the the guy to deliver with passion now, passion. | ||
| Real life experience. | ||
| He was a drug addict. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Look at Robert Downey Jr. now. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| People love that. | ||
| They love that. | ||
| But the same thing was happening to Downey when when he when when he was in rehab, or maybe when he was even in the pen when they um what people were bringing him. | ||
| I think he was I think they brought him Ally McBeal when he was still in jail. | ||
| And I don't think I think he still got high after that. | ||
| You know, and my dad would always be like yelling at the television. | ||
| It's like, stop rewarding his this behavior. | ||
| Stop rewarding it. | ||
| Let him let him let him sit in those consequences. | ||
| Not out of judgment or out of punishment or you know, just out of love, you know. | ||
| To help him get his shit together. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You keep letting them fuck up over and over again, they'll continue to fuck up. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But if there's always a carrot the day you walk out, you know, something to something to chase. | ||
| And and and and a soft landing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| That's what was really interesting about this, you know, this this uh this decades, decade long time out that I got that I got put into, you know. | ||
| Um which, you know, at some point that the punishment has to just sort of fit the crime, right? | ||
| Um and uh yeah, it was it was it it felt like it had uh it was a little bit longer than it should be. | ||
| It should have been, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I don't remember any murder charges, you know. | ||
| Um but at the same time um there's not a chance that I that I could have d done the the two projects that I've that wow the book came out yesterday and the doc comes out today, you know. | ||
| Um I c I couldn't have done either un unless I had the kind of perspective and distance from all of that that I that I was able to to to get to find, you know. | ||
| You've been in sober for how long? | ||
| Seven years? | ||
| Coming up on eight. | ||
| Eight years. | ||
| Yeah, be eight in December. | ||
| That probably helped a lot to be away from everything to for you to achieve that. | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I mean, I was still doing things to uh you you know, just kind of stay in the mix a little bit and you you know, I do signings, I do speaking engagements, do stuff like that. | ||
| But it was also like it's like as soon as I quit drinking, all my kids started showing up again. | ||
| And you know, Sam and Lola were living there, and then they'd they'd they'd cycle back with Denise and then Bob and Max would show up and then they'd Brooke would come back and like, okay, so he he's gonna be here and then Lola would show back up. | ||
| So my house was kind of like it's kinda like this, it was like a clubhouse, you know. | ||
| Um I write in the book that my that that that my vacancy sign, uh you know, f for for those children um all always always hangs facing out, you know. | ||
| So it was you know, being being called to a to to a much more responsible and complicated uh set of responsibilities and and and order, you know, and just having to do stuff that they they didn't care about, you know, uh uh writing of a show or response to a movie or any like popularity or or IMDB uh y you know, stuff. | ||
| They they were just like, you know, with the basic needs and getting to school and help with this and so it was really cool to like suddenly just be that that's the only stuff that that that mattered to the people that matter the most. | ||
| And so um and and yeah, it but you're right, that that none of that could happen if I was away on location or having to be at a studio every week or but um yeah, I think it's I but it was about the time that it that it created, you know, so um and and it it's interesting that that I'm not I'm not like I'm not looking at this as a as a comeback, you know. | ||
| Um it's uh it's it's a I think it's a reset. | ||
| I think it's a reset. | ||
| You know? | ||
| And I and I didn't I didn't um I didn't rely on anything that I've done before. | ||
| Never written a book. | ||
| Never done a documentary, you know. | ||
| But to come back with two projects that um everybody seems to be really excited about. | ||
| Documentary is very entertaining. | ||
| Awesome. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| It's very entertaining. | ||
| It's it's really well done, like the way it's put together, and it's just so the stories are fucking bananas. | ||
| It's just so It's so bananas. | ||
| It's the the whole thing was just so nuts. | ||
| But you know, like I said, everybody loves the story of someone getting their shit together. | ||
| And uh that's a great accomplishment of being sober for almost eight years. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you know, it's um people are gonna yell at me because of how I I deal with that with the AA in the book, and that's fine. | ||
| I just speak to my personal experiences. | ||
| I'm not I'm not sure. | ||
| How do you deal with it? | ||
| Um that I I I tried it for a long time. | ||
| I I for a combined twenty-one years, um, and just decided that that I had to give this give this a go on my own. | ||
| So you just do it completely on your own. | ||
| You don't have any uh person you call or any no. | ||
| I mean there's people that that are sober that I still talk to and you don't have a sponsor or something. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| No. | ||
| Um I know it does help some people. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| And that's why I don't want to say that it's I I'm not recommending that this is another buttons. | ||
| You're just saying your truth. | ||
| This is how you do it. | ||
| I had a very good friend who was an alcoholic who quit one day. | ||
| He crashed his car, ran from the cops on foot, got arrested, and then he's like, What am I doing with my life? | ||
| I'm done. | ||
| Hey, quit. | ||
| Like that day that there. | ||
| Never had a drink again. | ||
| I knew him for twenty years after that. | ||
| It happens. | ||
| It can happen. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But I but I I think that I that I do have the experience of all of that time in and around the rooms. | ||
| You know, and and that's not to say that I don't still remember a couple of nuggets, a couple of things that still stuck with me that I still thought you still you still see as valuable. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know. | ||
| But um it's there's a there's a line in the book that it's it's it's it's hard to ask for help when when somebody else has raised your hand for you. | ||
| You know, interventions, you called into a thing, you're told to do it, and you're just all you're doing is just counting the days. | ||
| Yeah, that's the part of the documentary too when they the first intervention when you got brought into a room and everybody's sitting there waiting for you. | ||
| You thought it was a party. | ||
| Well, yeah, I mean I was a little suspicious because it's nine a.m. | ||
| Why is dad having a nine a.m. birthday party? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Unless we're going to Magic Mountain. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's usually the time you leave. | ||
| Right. | ||
| That's usually for a seven-year-old, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Um Yeah, no, that would that was wild. | ||
| Um that is something that I can still see as it happened on the day. | ||
| Really? | ||
| Turning that corner in the hallway into my parents' living room and like and st my brain is still trying to turn it into a birthday party. | ||
| My brain or insisted that that's what we're there for. | ||
| You know? | ||
| That's funny. | ||
| And it just when it starts to dawn on you. | ||
| Like, have you ever taken a sip of something that was in the wrong bottle, but your brain saw the label. | ||
| Uh huh. | ||
| And so your m it takes your body like a half a second. | ||
| Yeah, to catch up to that's not those don't match. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| Those don't match. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um Yeah, I have a story about that, but I probably shouldn't tell it anymore. | ||
| But um Yeah. | ||
| So that one didn't work. | ||
| It didn't work that way. | ||
| You had to do it on your own. | ||
| It it worked for a year. | ||
| It worked for a year. | ||
| But then like as is in the in the dock, I'm at I'm at you know, Cage's house, and I on on the anniversary on the one year, I find that beer in his fridge. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| I'm like, well, that's there for a reason. | ||
| He's just caused this He's caused this to celebrate That's not an accident Yeah. | ||
| And just didn't even think twice. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Just was like, ha, finally. | ||
| Boom. | ||
| And now we're off to the races. | ||
| We're off to the races, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| How did you get sober this time? | ||
| I um I I'd gotten off the drugs. | ||
| Gotten off the dope. | ||
| But you when I say dope, that's always coke. | ||
| Never heroin. | ||
| It was never never a heroine guy. | ||
| I I'd been off that geez, probably over ten years, you know. | ||
| And so I mean uh uh uh more than ten years s like sitting here today. | ||
| So I had I didn't I hadn't fucked around with any of that shit for a few years. | ||
| I was just I was I just committed to drinking, you know. | ||
| And then found that to be like the most unmanageable drug um that that I've ever tried to navigate. | ||
| Drinking drinking, yeah, drinking more than cocaine. | ||
| Yeah, because there's never a time when you can't get it, you know. | ||
| And and when I had made the decision that I okay, I'm just going to drink. | ||
| Um I treated it like I did drugs, you know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But it um it's it's it's it's it's really kind of it's it's very accepted. | ||
| And it's it's it's it's very socially ingrained, you know. | ||
| It's like it's it's it didn't work. | ||
| Yeah, it's always Miller time. | ||
| Yeah, you want to smoke a joint some in front of someone, they might be like, Hey, what do you think's going on here? | ||
| Yeah, you want to have a drink in front of someone completely normal. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Everyone does it. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um but so um I I knew the way my body was starting to react and that the way I was starting to feel, and and and just it it just I I I couldn't feel it how I used to, even at like really like powerful doses, you know. | ||
| I just could and that that that got depressing. | ||
| That that wasn't like I'll just drink twice as much now. | ||
| That was like, damn. | ||
| The thing I relied on is now just like told me Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, but it's no much of a tolerance. | ||
| Our relationship is now different, you know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And so there was a day and it's it's it's in the book, and and I I you know, I was a morning drinker. | ||
| I I loved uh you know, spiking my coffee. | ||
| That's like for me, it was like the best time to drink. | ||
| I mean you're not gonna get shit done the rest of the day, but that's when I felt it. | ||
| When that's when I could still feel it was in the morning, you know. | ||
| So I'm on like my third McAllen coffee or whatever, and my daughter Sam like calls from she she's at the house and calls and says, Hey, um, what time are we leaving? | ||
| Like to to go where. | ||
| She had a hair appointment and it was a Sunday, I think, or a Saturday. | ||
| And I've never ever mixed uh the cups and the wheel. | ||
| Ever. | ||
| I've never had a DUI. | ||
| How about that? | ||
| That's awesome. | ||
| That's pretty good, right? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I just I just decided like a long time ago, like when I was like seventeen, that that was never gonna happen. | ||
| Good for you. | ||
| And I was living in a limo back then. | ||
| There was, you know, the occasional cab, but these days, these days to get busted for drinking and driving with the available transportation that is literally 15 choices in your hand. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It's there's no excuse. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And so I call I called Tony, I said, Tony, well, you know, I can't drive, you gotta help me get Sam to this thing. | ||
| And and so he was like, Oh uh, I'll I'll be right here in 20 minutes. | ||
| We got her to the appointment, it went great, and there was there was a moment in the car driving back, and and um I I I describe it in the book, you know, and I I could see her in two mirrors, the visor and and the side view. | ||
| And she was just kind of sitting back there and I I'm not saying that I know exactly what she was thinking, but I could feel what I what I'm pretty sure she was, and it was just this thing about um, you know, why it's yeah, it's cool that dad did this, but why why isn't dad driving again? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know, why why is there always disappointment? | ||
| Yeah, and it's not nothing with Tony, yeah, you know, he's been around forever and you know, and and it was so we got we got back from that. | ||
| Um and and I and it was j there was something that I couldn't shake. | ||
| It was something that stayed with me, just the images of her. | ||
| This little 13-year-old kid in the back seat. | ||
| And her dad can't even take her to like a just a basic, just like up the highway to a hair appointment. | ||
| Like that that got that was complicated. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I was like, what am I doing? | ||
| And then I I just sat inside I sat inside of that for a while because it didn't feel good. | ||
| And I and I thought, okay, what can I do to not to stop feeling like this? | ||
| The math is pretty simple at that point, you know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And um, you know, wasn't doing gonna do rehab, I wasn't gonna do a big dramatic uh yeah you know, you know, the life uh turnaround or I was just gonna just make a decision and stick to it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Mm-hmm. | |
| And you know, I took a few values, drank a few beers, and then b the next day, just woke up and said I'm done and didn't care. | ||
| I didn't I made a decision. | ||
| I wasn't gonna care how I felt physically. | ||
| Was just gonna like just grit and bear it. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| How long did it take before you felt okay? | ||
| About three days. | ||
| The story I had written that was gonna be a month was just like that that that that was fake. | ||
| And it was and so and then it just coincidentally, um it happened to be my oldest daughter, uh Cassandra's birthday when I quit, December twelfth, you know. | ||
| And it was just like, okay, that's all aligned. | ||
| Um and then um then something else happened after that because everybody's gonna get a little squirrely. | ||
| Like it can put sh the problem with guy like me is that and people like me is you're able to put things back together really quickly. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| And and kind of just kind of reassemble the pieces. | ||
| So you're not as scared to go off the rails. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| And um and so then I got a call, um this is the post you know, already had HIV for for several years at this point. | ||
| I get a call that there's a new medicine, right? | ||
| This is about a month after the Sam thing, right? | ||
| And they're like, look, we want you to try this thing, because it's it's it's a much smaller cocktail, it's much less toxicity and and uh no s very few side effects. | ||
| We think you're gonna do great on it, right? | ||
| They said, but you can't drink on it. | ||
| The other one you could drink your fucking face off. | ||
| Like like a you could you could drink like a pirate on the other one, which they shouldn't have told me that you can. | ||
| You know and so um so I said, okay, great. | ||
| So I tried that one, and then it was you know, it was working great. | ||
| But they said, okay, uh if you can just stay off the booze, um it's gonna keep working the light, light, light like it is, you know. | ||
| So then this other thing showed up in addition to that, like just in in concert with it. | ||
| So now I had a couple things going on. | ||
| You know, let's keep this thing, this this uh evil stowaway is what I like to call it. | ||
| Let's keep that thing in the you know, at bay. | ||
| Uh-huh. | ||
| And and let's do you you know, re rebuild every relationship that matters in your life, you know, while you're still here. | ||
| Did you have a revelation after a while after you were sober for a while, where you stop and think, like, why was I getting so fucked up? | ||
| Like what was I what was I trying to avoid or what was I trying to enhance or what what was the purpose? | ||
| Like what was I what what bothered me so much that I couldn't be sober? | ||
| Interesting, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um I think f yeah, it it I I think it was more a void earlier, like it or earlier in life, like avoid the pressures of fame, avoid the the fears of of commitment or relationship or or being uh exposed as a fucking fraud at some point, you know. | ||
| Um I think that was earlier um and I think enhance came later that that um trying to just make situations just feel more exciting or cooler or or more you know sexier or you know what I'm saying? | ||
| Like yeah. | ||
| But it's interesting that that you presented both sides of that, you know, avoid enhance. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, I I I I relate to both, you know. | ||
| Um Yeah, I think that's a good thing to tell people too, because uh everybody wants to hear the drug st like Bill Hicks had a great joke about nobody ever hears uh great drug stories. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, you only hear the bad ones. | ||
| You know, and it is true. | ||
| But the reason why people do it is because it's fun. | ||
| Like it can ruin your life. | ||
| But it's also really fun. | ||
| That's why people do it. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| This is the it's important for people to know because you don't want 'em to think you're lying to them. | ||
| You know, and for them to hear you sober and happy and go, okay, that's possible. | ||
| You can get there because this guy's admitting what getting high was. | ||
| You know, like there's a there's a scene in the documentary where you're talking about the first time you smoke crack where this girl's giving you a blowjob while you're smoking crack, and it was like the greatest feeling of all time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, yeah. | ||
| Like, I think that's important to say. | ||
| That hasn't been topped. | ||
| I I probably shouldn't say that. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| I don't care. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That hasn't been topped. | ||
| Have you ever heard Hunter Biden talk about crack? | ||
| I haven't. | ||
| No. | ||
| He was on the Channel 5 show. | ||
| And uh he gives this ode to crack that made me want to immediately go smoke crack. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Seriously. | |
| Yeah, because Hunter Biden's a very smart guy. | ||
| Um I don't think people think of him that way because of the laptop thing, but he's very intelligent. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And um very articulate. | ||
| So when he's explaining like the effects of crack and how different it is and how incredible it is and the euphoria of it, and it's like he's literally saying that he's like getting the itch while he sitting there sober, talking about working on a sobriety, trying to keep it together. | ||
| Interesting after all it publicly shamed for being out of control and telling talking about crack like a lover that you lost in a a drowning accident. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| It's it's crazy. | ||
| I get that. | ||
| I get that. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| I bet you do. | ||
| There's a moment in the dock where I tell this the Sandy story. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I say, wow, that one actually got me kind of Yeah, I could feel that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um That's the problem. | ||
| The problem is it's That's the problem, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| The problem is Did you I no you don't have to did you ever try it or not? | ||
| No, I never even did Coke. | ||
| Oh, you never okay. | ||
| No, when I was in high school, I have a good buddy of mine and his cousin was selling Coke. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And his cousin who was super normal, I knew him forever, great guy, super cool guy. | ||
| All of a sudden, he became weird and pale and lost all this weight, and it was like he got bit by a vampire. | ||
| And him and his girlfriend were selling coke and they would just watch TV and do coke. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And they had like this attic apartment, and it was like he had gotten bit by a vampire. | ||
| That's how it felt like to me. | ||
| I was like he just lost his whole life to coke. | ||
| And then I saw some other kids that had coke problems around me where they were just dying to get coke. | ||
| And I was like, this is a bad drug. | ||
| And back then I think it was actually Coke. | ||
| You know, I don't even know. | ||
| At least like 80% of it, yeah. | ||
| In the nineteen eighties, I don't know if they were cutting it with anything, but I made a decision at one point in time in my life, no, I don't want to have nothing to do with that one. | ||
| That one seems to rob people's lives. | ||
| You just stuck to that. | ||
| Yeah, it just seemed to me like that one can make you a loser. | ||
| And then did you roll in circles over the years where it was prevalent? | ||
| Or I knew some people that get did coke, and it never worked out well. | ||
| I didn't know anybody who did coke who like kept their life together. | ||
| Everybody who did Coke was like barely together, barely hanging on, always off the rails. | ||
| I think there's like one guy. | ||
| One guy out there, some superhero. | ||
| He said that maintained it all those years was was Jack Nicholson. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| I think he I think he's thinking the only guy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| I mean, do we know of anybody else? | ||
| Well, they might not be public about it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know. | ||
| But what about the rumors that that Jack always traveled with like a doctor? | ||
| Have you ever heard this shit? | ||
| Have you heard these stories? | ||
| No. | ||
| No? | ||
| No. | ||
| Oh, yeah, that he had a doctor that tr that that carried his coke or distributed and only gave him just the just what he needed. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Yeah, no, I don't know. | ||
| I mean, that's a movie star shit right there. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| You get a doctor with a fucking leather satchel to carry your coke around. | ||
| Yeah, and it's just he's just close to it. | ||
| I'd make him wear a stethoscope everywhere you go, bro. | ||
| Has to. | ||
| You need to have a stethoscope on it. | ||
| Everybody's gotta know you're legit. | ||
| Yeah, but that's like that's one of the great like eighties rumors about Jack. | ||
| That's funny. | ||
| I never heard that rumor that's some guy. | ||
| That makes sense. | ||
| But then you'd be around Jack. | ||
| I was only around him a few times, but then you know he was cool as hell. | ||
| And you're always kind of looking like, all right, who's the bag man? | ||
| Who's his guy? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right. | |
| Where is he? | ||
| You know, or who's the bagman for that night, you know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Like, was it a team of doctors that rotated? | ||
| Dangerfield party till the end. | ||
| He uh he kept that trader rolling. | ||
| Yeah, he did. | ||
| We lived we lived in the same building for a while. | ||
| You in Dangerfield? | ||
| Yeah, we know it's that building in the book called the Wilshire on Wilshire. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, wow. | |
| And I, gosh, I maybe saw him twice. | ||
| I got in the elevator with him one time. | ||
| And and we'd we'd seen each other out, but never really had it like an elevator moment, you know. | ||
| And he goes, Hey kid, how are you doing? | ||
| You look great. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And he's like, he goes, hey, hey, what he goes at that. | |
| Yeah, that's together with Kiddison. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| But in the elevator. | ||
| Look at Rod. | ||
| He looks funny just in his photo. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Just in the photo, you start laughing. | ||
| Doing nothing. | ||
| He was so good, dude. | ||
| I I can't tell you what happened that night. | ||
| I don't know where we were. | ||
| But it looks like the jacket is definitely circa eighty-nine ninety. | ||
| The um that looks like a backstage something that's on my jacket. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| Probably at a poison concert or something. | ||
| Perhaps so we're in the elevator. | ||
| He says, Hey, uh cute, what are you what are you Puerto Rican, right? | ||
| And I and I said, No, I'm I'm I'm Spanish Irish. | ||
| And he says, uh, you don't know whether to start a parade or start a war. | ||
| And it's like doors open and he he just walks out. | ||
| He just had that on standby. | ||
| Or built it in the moment. | ||
| He probably built it in the moment. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I was just like so I can't really ever describe my heritage without hearing his voice, you know. | ||
| Start a parade or start a war. | ||
| That's funny. | ||
| Just like, wow. | ||
| Just left me with that gold, you know. | ||
| We have his handwritten notes at our our comedy club in the green room. | ||
| Yeah, for one of his tonight show appearances. | ||
| So we have his handwritten notes framed to all the stuff he's gonna talk about. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| It's pretty cool. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| What and and would he would he stick to Yeah? | ||
| It's like his jokes and he had like the punchlines for like accented bold letters. | ||
| Oh, seriously. | ||
| He wrote it all out darker. | ||
| So it was he was like super organized, yeah. | ||
| Yeah, super organized. | ||
| Damn. | ||
| Well he to he stopped doing stand-up for a long time and he was selling aluminum siding. | ||
| And then he made it again when he was much older in life. | ||
| He came back and the thing that happened was from the time he stopped doing stand up to when he went back to having a regular job, he never stopped writing jokes. | ||
| Like his brain just worked that way. | ||
| So he was just always writing jokes. | ||
| So when he came back on a treasure truck. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Yes. | ||
| And he just fucking stormed the gates when he came back. | ||
| Everybody's like, where's this guy been? | ||
| That's amazing. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And then he became huge. | ||
| Back to school and the Ronnie Dangerfield HBO comedy specials and epic. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Oh, he's one of the all-time. | ||
| So he came back as do do doing stand-up. | ||
| I think he was in his forties. | ||
| Got got some heat again. | ||
| And that that activated the films. | ||
| Yeah, well, the stand-up he didn't have any heat before, but when he quit. | ||
| You know, he was just like kind of like getting by doing all right and got a job. | ||
| Quit. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I think he might have quit for ten years. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And then the whole time he was writing. | ||
| And then he's like, fuck it, I gotta do this, and then got back into comedy. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| I hope I'm not fucking that story up, but I think I'm I think I'm accurate with that. | ||
| See if you can find it. | ||
| Make sure that's true. | ||
| I'm 90% sure that's true. | ||
| But I know that he didn't make it until he was in his forties. | ||
| And uh I told this the other day, but I'll tell it again. | ||
| I used to work at Great Woods Center for the Performing Arts in Mansfield, Massachusetts. | ||
| I was security guy there. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| And uh I was backstage or by the by the outside of the backstage, and Ron D. Dangerfield would go on stage completely naked with a bathrobe on. | ||
| That's what he would wear. | ||
| And he was wearing a bathrobe backstage with slippers and just walking around. | ||
| It's like this guy's wild. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And they're like, he goes on stage like that. | ||
| I'm like, shut the fuck up. | ||
| Was it partially closed at least? | ||
| Or it was just why? | ||
| Yeah, it was close. | ||
| Oh, okay. | ||
| But if you went in the green room, you were seeing his dick. | ||
| Because he's sitting there, he would just sit there, his dick could be hanging out, he didn't care. | ||
| Uh struggled financially for nine years, one performing as a singing waiter until he was fired before taking a job selling aluminum siding in the mid fifties to support his wife and family. | ||
| He later quipped so the nineteen sixties he started reviving his career. | ||
| Oh damn. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So somewhere close to ten years. | ||
| Still working as a salesman by day. | ||
| He returned to the stage performing at hotels in the Catskills Mountains, but still finding minimal success. | ||
| He fell into debt, about $20,000 by his own estimate. | ||
| Could get booked. | ||
| Dangerfield came to realize what he lacked was an image, well defined on stage persona that the audience could relate to, one that would distinguish him from other comics after being shunned by some premier comedy venues, he returned home where he became developing a character for whom nothing goes right. | ||
| Isn't that crazy? | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Damn. | ||
| Oh, look at this. | ||
| During Roy's comeback bid, who's Roy? | ||
| He was that uh when he was nineteen, he was Jack Roy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Ohny Dangerfield. | |
| Oh people recognize it. | ||
| When he was that checking in at hotels from now on. | ||
| Wanting to distinguish himself from longtime patrons who might have remembered him from the nineteen forties. | ||
| Roy asked club owner George McFadden to change his name. | ||
| He came up with Rodney Dangerfield. | ||
| Wow, he didn't want people to remember him as Jack Roy from back in the day. | ||
| He didn't like his old act. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| He said, I don't know where it came from. | ||
| McFadden may have taken it from the Jack Benny program on NBC Radio, which first used Rodney Dangerfield as a character's name in 1941. | ||
| Ricky Nelson also used the pseudoman pseudonym in a nineteen sixty-two episode of The Adventures of Ozzy and Harriet. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| That's when he popped again. | ||
| That's amazing. | ||
| That's nuts. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Go get him. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Maybe he didn't know whether to start a prayer or start a war. | ||
| He was a fun guy. | ||
| Uh I knew a lot of people who knew him. | ||
| I didn't get a chance to meet him. | ||
| I saw him once at the Laugh Factor. | ||
| I ran into him. | ||
| I said hi, but that was it. | ||
| I never really got a chance to talk to him. | ||
| So you did have a have a moment. | ||
| Yeah, one moment. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It was he was uh just leaving the stage. | ||
| He was outside and he had some uh hot MILF with him. | ||
| Awesome, thank you. | ||
| I was like, you go, Rodney. | ||
| Why not? | ||
| Why not? | ||
| I think it was probably his wife. | ||
| He's his wife is uh who donated us these uh these um handwritten notes and also the photograph of them too. | ||
| It's pretty cool. | ||
| It's just there's a few guys like that that you know, without them, you you always wonder like where would comedy be? | ||
| Like where would it ever turn up? | ||
| Like so many people like Pryor and him and Lenny Bruce, so many people that just like changed everything. | ||
| Carlin. | ||
| Carlin. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So many people just changed Kinison. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| They just changed the whole thing. | ||
| But Dangerfield was one of the rare ones that introduced new comics to people. | ||
| Like those that's where everybody found out about Kinison, so everybody found out about Dice Clay, Don Marera, Lenny Clark, all these guys, uh Robert Schimmel, they all started out on the Rodney Dangerfield HBO comedy specials. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So he he would have like have his favorite comedians. | |
| He would just have like a show where he would like introduce his favorite comedians. | ||
| But he'd have to scout them at the clubs. | ||
| He would go see them. | ||
| So he'd just go out. | ||
| And he had his own club in New York City, Dangerfields. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| But he was, you know, he was interested in promoting comedy too. | ||
| You know. | ||
| He was just a fucking amazing guy. | ||
| That's such a cool moment you had with him. | ||
| I can still I can see it. | ||
| I mean, it's like it's there's nothing tricky about that memory. | ||
| You know. | ||
| What was it like being with your dad while he was filming Apocalypse Now? | ||
| It w it was it was a lot of that in the book. | ||
| How old were you? | ||
| I was uh I was I went there as a ten-year-old. | ||
| Uh yeah, had my 11th birthday there. | ||
| Um spent a t a combined total of eight or nine months there, and that that was uh going back and forth, you know. | ||
| Um it was uh it was just it was in it wasn't just another country, it was another planet. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Um we'd seen you know, different parts of the world traveling with him, you know, Mexico, uh Italy, uh Switzerland, Germany, places like that, you know. | ||
| But then you get to the Philippines and it was just um you just got a sense that um wow, that this is all going on at the same time that we've been in Malibu, like kind of you know, uh having fun and and just doing cool shit. | ||
| And that and so you visit a place like that and get in the middle of it and and and engage in in in this entirely just this this just a new uh it's such a surreal reality. | ||
| Um and then, oh, wait a minute, they're here to make a movie and it's about a film that uh it's it's it's about a it's a film about a war that er that and barely ended like a year ago, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Fourteen months ago when it's Saigon Fall. | ||
| It was 75. | ||
| Right? | ||
| I think so. | ||
| Yeah, and they're and I mean it was like right at the tail end of it. | ||
| Um and so yeah, it was uh we you know we were able to do enough stuff like recreationally, you know, that w with th that there was a lake and you could water ski, you could fish, you could do those kind of things if you didn't want to go to the set with dad. | ||
| But once you went and saw the set where dad was, you didn't give a fuck about water sports or fish or anything because what what what what they'd built and and what they were trying to create was uh w was was mind blowing because you know, Coppola built Kurtz compound out of practical materials. | ||
| It wasn't like you know, like uh like plaster covered uh chicken wire and rebar. | ||
| These were like, you know, two ton boulders. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They brought in and started stacking in the jungle uh w and and you know, and then a lot of it would start sinking. | ||
| Couldn't build a foundation in in a river bank, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Um but then the just the mix of people and the talent and Dennis Hopper and Brando and Duvall and and it just it was every day felt uh c completely unique. | ||
| You there there was not there was no you you'd go to the set and you were going to see something completely different than what you saw the day before. | ||
| It was it was wild. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Yeah, and and I I gravitated towards this gentleman named Fred Blau, who I mentioned in the book. | ||
| He was the key he was the key makeup artist, you know, FX guy. | ||
| And so he was building all the prosthetics for all the carnage you see in the movie. | ||
| You know, so I'd walk into a shop and there's the arms and legs and heads and But I knew it was all fake. | ||
| You know? | ||
| As a ten year old, when you start seeing how it's made and and you know, so gore um, I think I write in the book, um was never Gore in movies w was never emotional. | ||
| It w it was it was technical. | ||
| You know? | ||
| And but but but still kept me really curious about about how it was done and and just the the the the artisans behind it that that could create those effects. | ||
| How long were you over there for? | ||
| Uh a total of eight months. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Maybe nine. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it was it was ten years old. | ||
| Yeah, it was three at first, and then maybe four at first, and then we went back and then dad has the heart attack and then we went back and stayed for like another four or f four months, yeah. | ||
| So um yeah, it was and and people say, so you know, growing up on sets, you must have like dreamed about being an actor. | ||
| I'm like, yeah, until I got to the set that almost killed my dad, you know. | ||
| That's not a job. | ||
| You're just gonna like wrap your arms around and say, when can I start? | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Um but it also um it it it just the scope of the filmmaking was really exciting and and we you know, I d I didn't really understand it as a ten or eleven year old. | ||
| Um but I knew I I I knew there was something about it that that that that required of a mu a much y you know, closer look and and I had a very keen interest in in just you know what it what it what what what what would it take to to like build this the you know the the this reality, this fake reality. | ||
| Oh, but wait, the subject is based in reality, but everything else around it is fake. | ||
|
unidentified
|
So That's a very strange experience for a ten year old. | |
| It is, yeah on such a grand scale. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| When it becomes what Apocalypse Now became. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because it was like a culturally defining moment. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, it was in it it's a movie that it kind of eclipses all other war movies. | ||
| It does. | ||
| It really does. | ||
| It does. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I don't I don't think there's been a film like it uh before or since I think um No, it's a true masterpiece. | ||
| It really is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And and and there's no computers. | ||
| There's nothing generated. | ||
| It's all had to be there on the day. | ||
| And when you watch that, the the you know, when what when when Kilgore takes the beachhead, that chopper assault? | ||
| I mean, when you look at the just what they had what they committed to to bring that to the screen, it's just it's impossible. | ||
| And then you you you see some of the documentary stuff about he was like those were on loan from the Philippine Army, and then like midday they had to go fight the rebels somewhere else, and they told Francis, we gotta leave now with the choppers, and he's like, I have 18 cameras set up. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The whole the river is filled with bombs, where are you going? | |
| We'll see you tomorrow. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Stuff like that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Pretty wild. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But that must have like for you, like to eventually become an actor in Platoon. | ||
| That had to be s kind of surreal. | ||
| How does that happen? | ||
| Right. | ||
| How does that happen? | ||
| How does that happen eleven years later? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Or or ten. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, because I do I did Platoon at twenty. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| So how do I go back to the same country ten years later? | ||
| Ten years later, with the same subject, right? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Narrate the fucking thing and then it it it it's elevated to be on par with the one of the how does the only films that gets mentioned in the same breath as apocalypse now when it comes to war films. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I'm a much bigger fan of Apocalypse than Platoon, and that is m primarily about just the the scope and the complication and and just what you know um uh uh difficulty factor. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Difficulty factor. | ||
| It took forever, yeah. | ||
| How many years did it take? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Um It was like eight or nine years, right? | |
| It I d I don't know when uh Francis conceived it. | ||
| Um it came out in 79. | ||
| I think it c did it come out in August of 79. | ||
| How many let's just Google how many years it's August 79. | ||
| How many years did it take to make Apocalypse now? | ||
| I think it went way over budget. | ||
| Oh it did, oh yeah. | ||
| And by today's standards, that's like uh you know, that's like a Fox searchlight budget. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know? | ||
| And Lawrence Fishburn was like what? | ||
| How old was he? | ||
| He started the film at 14. | ||
|
unidentified
|
The photography started March of 76. | |
| And it came out in'79? | ||
| It was originally due to be released on Coppola's 38th birthday of April'77, so it took two extra years. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And imagine So when was it when did the the project start? | ||
| Uh I mean varying times uh of discussions. | ||
| Casting started February 76 is when Steve McQueen dropped out. | ||
| So the So it's not as many years as I thought it was. | ||
| They shot with Harvey Keitel for a few weeks as Willard. | ||
| Did you know that and um then Francis it just was he he made the wrong choice? | ||
| Oh Harvey was doing it, you know, whatever he could, but Francis just saw it differently and had met dad during the godfather auditions and said, Let me meet with Marty. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| You can tell people um that don't really know my dad that well call him Marty. | ||
| I run into people in the street and they're like, hey, uh give give Marty my best. | ||
| And I'm like, Who in the fuck is Marty? | ||
| People call him Martin. | ||
| No. | ||
| They know him better, you know. | ||
| Um Well people that pretend to know someone always like to throw a Y on the end of it, makes it like you're tight. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I would be like Chucky. | ||
| You you're still Charlie. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right, right. | |
| But I would be like Joey. | ||
| Joey, my gosh. | ||
| I could never think of you as a Joey. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No. | ||
| But but imagine this with apocalypse. | ||
| Um that um so I spend that much time, there's all that shit that happened. | ||
| I even brought home like props and things, you know, severed hands and if a gal jewelry and all this cool shit, right? | ||
| And all these great stories, and then didn't have anything tangible to back any of it. | ||
| I mean, mom took a lot of photos, but like nobody could go to the theater and then say, Oh yeah, Charlie talked about that. | ||
| Oh yeah, he taught me he was there that day. | ||
| Right. | ||
| We had to wait. | ||
| And when you're that age, you know, waiting two or three years, like waiting a decade, right? | ||
| So that was that was kind of a trip. | ||
| Um but when I saw it at the Cinerama Dome in 70 millimeter, you know, um, and it's like, man, when those choppers, when you hear them, when you hear just they're they're they're they're all around you. | ||
| Um there the a film will never open like that again and have that kind of an impact. | ||
| Did I mean were did you see it at the dome when you first saw it? | ||
| No, no. | ||
| I don't remember where I first saw it. | ||
| I first saw it, I think, on a regular TV at home. | ||
| Oh shit, okay. | ||
| You know, because I was too little to watch it in 79. | ||
| Is that what it was? | ||
| Um maybe I saw it when it came out on HBO or something like that for the first time. | ||
| When I really got into it was when I got a home theater and I got surround sound and I got Apocalypse uh redo the Apocalypse Now Redo the like the new newly mastered one. | ||
| Got it, okay. | ||
| It's fucking sensational. | ||
| So you have you finally had that experience. | ||
| Oh my god. | ||
| It's so good. | ||
| I was like, this movie is wild. | ||
| It's so well done. | ||
| And it's just so epic. | ||
| Like for you to have been there live while they were putting that together and then to see it all pieced together and all I mean. | ||
| That had to be an insane experience. | ||
| Well, and and and a lot of it was a surprise seeing it on the screen. | ||
| Because like I talk about in the book, not so much in the dock, it was hard to get close to the action on Apocalypse. | ||
| Because the way the sets were constructed, because of the way, you know, Francis had everything lit. | ||
| Um it was super claustrophobic, like in you know, Kurtz's Temple and Compound and places like that. | ||
| Um and and um it was also fucking dangerous to be on that set. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know what I'm saying? | ||
| Snakes and shit and just like a lot of weird people, you know. | ||
| Um and so uh yeah, Francis was just like I'm one come all, you know. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Um but um but yeah, so then it's like I wasn't there for any any of the chopper assault. | ||
| Uh I w I was I could see Hopper at a distance in that outfit with those cameras walking with dad. | ||
| I couldn't hear what he was saying. | ||
| So to then see that scene where you know dad first steps off the boat at the compound and Hopper has that incredible monologue. | ||
| Yeah, you know, you got the cigarettes, that's what I've been dreaming about. | ||
| And it's just like so to have that that kind of that that to have been there that long and still be it's a a completely fresh cinematic experience was a trip. | ||
| Did you ever get imposter syndrome like when you were doing Platoon? | ||
| Did you ever get like how the fuck am I here? | ||
| Because it's so quick between you being ten, right being in the jungle while they're filming Apocalypse Now to you starring in Platoon. | ||
| Had you settled into that, or were you ever like, how the fuck do I deserve this? | ||
| One of the things that John Cryer says in the documentary thing about he might be around to say. | ||
| It's very insightful. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's very insightful. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He said that you probably feel like you don't deserve all this, so you fuck it all up. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| He's not wrong. | ||
| He's not wrong. | ||
| Um but then I I had a qu comment in some interview the other day, and I said, Well, what the fuck, John? | ||
| You could have like laid that on me like, you know, a couple decades sooner, man. | ||
| Great advice. | ||
| However, a little late. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, but you can't tell anybody that they have to kind of figure it out. | ||
| They do. | ||
| But the thing about Platoon and when it happened, um the good news is that I had done enough film work, um, you know, not not like super memorable films, except maybe uh parts of Red Dawn, I think are pretty memorable. | ||
| Um just you know, what the film kind of was, you know what it stood for what it was about. | ||
| Um I think parts of Bueller were kind of memorable first bueller, right? | ||
| Sure. | ||
| But um but yeah so so was so was just sort of getting um more comfortable in front of a camera more comfortable sort of you know being able to think on film and actually you know breathe on film. | ||
| I know that sounds kind of like actor schmactory, but it's actually a thing. | ||
| Because you're only talking about controlling your breath in every other area of life. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Right? | ||
| And it's the same is true uh uh as an actor yeah for sure even doing the show even doing two and a half uh for that first scene I was I was usually off I was usually like about to make an entrance from somewhere and I'd be back there and chain smoking I'm you know Marlboro Rads and just trying to figure out the first scene. | ||
| But then when you'd hear the you'd hear the you'd hear the stage go quiet, right? | ||
| Someone y'all's you know speeding sound market. | ||
| And then if I could get that last breath to go to the bottom I knew this first take was going to be awesome. | ||
| When the breath stopped about like at the sternum I was fucked. | ||
| Shallow breath. | ||
| Yeah then you can't then you're chat and then the thing and then yeah and then that first take is just a pancake which sucks because that's the first time the audience is going to see it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You kind of want that one to be if there's a cute girl in the crowd, that's the one you want her watching. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Not the second one where she's already heard the fucking jokes. | ||
| Right now you're just doing whatever. | ||
| Right now you're like oh this show sucks. | ||
| Exactly the live performance thing is weird because they don't really do it anymore. | ||
| I mean I don't think there's very many shows that still do that kind of a sitcom in front of a live audience on multiple cameras. | ||
| There's very few. | ||
| I uh I think Tim Allen show still does what what is that on? | ||
| Uh is that on Fox? | ||
|
unidentified
|
I think it's ABC. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| So he still does a traditional multi-camera guy I worked with friend of mine is on that writing staff. | ||
| God they used to be all over the television. | ||
| I know there used to be tons of them oh I think Chuck's new show on Netflix um it's called uh Leanne Lorraine shit Leanne yeah um I think that that's a live audience you know okay so they're still doing some of them they're fun it's fun when when it works you know yeah it's like it's it's a missing genre in today's culture. | ||
| You're right. | ||
| Most of what was on late at night exactly at night time we when you got done having dinner you can sit down and watch friends or you would sit down and watch Seinfeld or two and a half men or comfort view for sure. | ||
| Yeah we um my family binge watched uh Big Bang Theory I never watched it when it was on the air we binge watched it's a good fucking show. | ||
| Yeah they were a funny show. | ||
| I dismissed it. | ||
| I was like ah it's a corny sitcom bullshit. | ||
| It's a good show. | ||
| Right on solid show. | ||
| Right on yeah that kid kid that that young man Jim, right, uh had some of the most complicated dialogue that anybody's ever been saddled with ever. | ||
| Yeah he's the first autistic star of an action show or of a sitcom. | ||
| There you go. | ||
| Yeah yeah where you're kind of celebrating his uh emotional disconnection. | ||
| Yeah but delivering it like like Rain Man, you know and just with little laser precision. | ||
| Yeah yeah it's a really well written show. | ||
| It's very funny. | ||
| That guy Chuck Laurie's how how many fucking hits? | ||
| That guy's had a ton of hits. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Maybe more than anybody. | ||
| Probably sitcom world probably yeah yeah. | ||
| Yeah um they guys are friends again. | ||
| Yeah so am I so am I no that that sucked having that out there. | ||
| Yeah you know um you know I did finally actually remember that fucking thing and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna it's the other component to that frickin' tour to that meltdown to that thing there was a moment when I was only in rehab for like I don't know three weeks or a month. | ||
| It wasn't like one of those extended stays. | ||
| It was just like a you know just like a quick little quick little two yeah like a spin drive whatever they call that. | ||
| Um and I got the call we want to we want to renegotiate the giant contract for season eight and nine, you know and I I was on the phone I said I I don't I don't think so. | ||
| Then they're like, what, you don't think you're gonna get paid? | ||
| I'm like, no, I don't I don't think I don't think I don't think we should do it. | ||
| I'm not I I think seven is like, you know, mantle war seven, some other cool sevens, you know. | ||
| I and I don't think I think seven is like plenty. | ||
| I think we've I think we've told all the stories that we can mine from that from that Malibu house on the beach with those people. | ||
| They're like, no, no, you don't understand, man. | ||
| This is when it all like this is when it turns into like a legacy play for your fucking kids and their kids and that. | ||
| And then the part they always leave out is an R cut. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And our fucking kind of big part. | ||
| Yeah, and so they're on the phone. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I said on the phone, and Mark and I have talked about that. | ||
| I talked to me on Mark Berg, my manager, and I said, Mark, if I go back there, man, it's gonna go really fucking bad. | ||
| I just know it. | ||
| He's like, Well, you're you're you're projecting that. | ||
| I said, I'm not projecting shit, man. | ||
| I'm just I'm just smart enough to know how I feel about it now. | ||
| Got a little bit of clarity in this month I'm in the thing. | ||
| I said, if I if I go back there, I just I got a I got a bad feeling, Mark. | ||
| Why going back to work would send you off the rails? | ||
| Just that I had run up against a thing that I I had lost passion for the show. | ||
| I'd lost passion for the process. | ||
| Okay, so that if you went and just did it just for the money, you would find some ways to stimulate yourself. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That then I would have to do something um to enhance. | ||
| I said that about a lot of guys that got caught on shows that sucked. | ||
| I knew a lot of guys who got caught on shows where they were getting paid, but they did not like the show. | ||
| And it was a like a bad sitcom. | ||
| And those guys all went crazy. | ||
| Those guys all started doing a lot of drugs, or they started spending too much money, or something. | ||
| They did something to distract themselves. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Because they did not like what they were doing. | ||
| And they they didn't feel satisfied. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, but they were getting so much money. | ||
| Right. | ||
| They're like, what am I gonna do? | ||
| I'm getting a hundred thousand dollars a week. | ||
| I'm like, right. | ||
| Oh god. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What do you do? | ||
| You can't quit. | ||
| I was I was making fifty-four thousand an hour. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's pre-taxes, so was I said no to season eight and nine. | |
| I'd be like, do I have to wear a dress? | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, I'll I'll have to do that. | ||
| Or Dangerfield's robe at that point. | ||
| Let's go. | ||
| No, but um uh no, that that was after I I got you kind of crowbarred into it, you know. | ||
| Well not crowbar. | ||
| I'd ultimately say yes. | ||
| I got own that, you know. | ||
| But um it was just I was just the wrong guy in that moment, in that pocket of time to like give that much fucking money to, man. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, right, right. | ||
| And like I'd buy a bunch of cars and then invite a bunch of girls over and then just say pick one. | ||
| And then you did that other thing where you had that other show after that you got paid like a ton of money in advance for, right? | ||
| Um You talking about anger management? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Uh no, it's supposed to get uh it was it was design it was called a ten ninety. | ||
| Yeah, how scenario they suck you into that is they say, look, you uh you're not gonna get a ton on the on the on the front side, but you're gonna be you you know, you you're gonna own a third of the show. | ||
| Or like forty to thirty-seven, thirty-eight percent of the show in perpetuity. | ||
| So we're gonna do a hundred episodes, and it's the uh South Park um uh model that was the first ten ninety that really just blew it up and everybody got fucking rich. | ||
| So you do these ten episodes, you do a ten episode pilot. | ||
| And then if you hit if if the average number of those ten episodes comes in at like, I don't know, at like a like a uh above a four or like a five one or something that it's like a share, right? | ||
| Um then it activates the next ninety. | ||
| And so then you're doing those ninety to have a s of sellable uh uh uh syndication package that will just go all over the world and and you know, do what syndicated sitcoms do. | ||
| And so you've done it, yeah, you know, and y you know, when you say not a lot on on the front side, you're still, you know, still getting a buck fifty an app, you know, two hundred that's pretty good money, right? | ||
| Um, but it's not but you kind of you kinda eat it on that side knowing that it's an investment for the other thing to to pay gangbusters. | ||
| So you did you guys you did the ten episodes and then you got to do all of them? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| So you wanted to do in a hundred. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| But you did them in a short appointment a short period of time. | ||
| Two and a half years. | ||
| That's crazy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
I know. | |
| I know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I was I was not ready to go back to work. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that's the thing I talk about in the book. | ||
| The only reason I did was I I wanted to show those guys across town that I was terrible again, you know. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| And that is not that is not any way to any mindset to like lead the troops. | ||
| And it, you know, again, it started pretty cool. | ||
| I did the 10, I was great, you know, doing some pretty good work, and the shows were smart and funny. | ||
| And then we got into that 90, and it was about it was about 20. | ||
| No, what am I saying? | ||
| It's probably like nine or eleven into it, I started feeling exactly the same shit that I felt on two and a half going past that point. | ||
| I knew my enthusiasm and passion had had a uh had an expiration date. | ||
| You couldn't manufacture it? | ||
| I I tried, but I couldn't, I didn't um I didn't like the show enough. | ||
| You know, I loved the people I was working with, you know, from the from the writer's crew to the actor. | ||
| They were terrific. | ||
| You didn't like the final product. | ||
| I didn't, yeah, and I didn't I stopped caring. | ||
| But I still, you know, had enough dough to keep the lifestyle and all that other fun shit going on, and just stayed way too fucking high to really engage in this thing. | ||
| Um I mean, I was doing this thing, Joe, where I would I was partying, you know, hitting the fucking pipe, either girls or porn or both, or who, you know, whoever showed up, yeah, fucking, yeah, hey, come on in. | ||
| Come on in. | ||
| There's plenty to go around. | ||
| And then um there's this thing, I think I I felt like I was time traveling from like 1 a.m. to like seven felt like s eleven, I don't know, 15 minutes. | ||
| Whereas, you know, nine to midnight felt normal. | ||
| Wow, we have plenty of time to do everything. | ||
| And then like the the the hours I really needed to like, you know, settle in and enjoy, those just vanished. | ||
| And then you're back to work. | ||
| No, I got someone banging on my fucking door. | ||
| Dude, you're late. | ||
| What the fuck? | ||
| And I'm still fucking sideways. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So I'd pop a couple of shots or like half a Xanax or something, and I said, Oh, I just need and I would literally do this thing. | ||
| It was a 15-minute, 20-minute nap where I would just hit the pillow, I'd try to meditate with a body just vibrating from crack all night, trying to meditate. | ||
| At that point, I'm trying to fucking time travel. | ||
| I'm trying to levitate, right? | ||
| And but I could feel okay, I've I've generated some calmness. | ||
| Then then I would hit the shower, and I would t I'd be in the shower and I'd say, okay, I only have to navigate from this shower to the next shower. | ||
| And that's about 11, maybe 12 hours. | ||
| It was a shower to shower. | ||
| Remember that commercial like in the 70s? | ||
| Wasn't there a fucking like a deodorant or a shower to shower? | ||
| Yeah, like it lasted from one shower to the next. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I'm trying to last from one shower to the next, man. | ||
| No shit. | ||
| And then but I'd get to work and then have that midday drop off. | ||
| And I wasn't hitting the pipe at work, but I needed to keep some f some fuel in the engine. | ||
| So I'd be, you know, I start drinking, and then man, people look at sitcoms like, oh, they're out there having a fun time. | ||
| Man, it is super fucking complicated. | ||
| Well, you've done them, yeah, right. | ||
| It's like an it's like a dance, isn't it? | ||
| It's like a uh it's like a choreographed thing. | ||
| And so it is hard enough to do and and to do well, completely focused and and and with all your shit intact, right? | ||
| You start getting over here and trying to be that specific just with marks, with jokes, with timing with other people. | ||
| And then a lot of my energy is going to trying to disguise like the condition I'm really in. | ||
| You know, and trying to make excuses. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Oh, I had a med mix-up today. | ||
| Med mix-up. | ||
| I'm on two pills or the same fucking thing at the same time every day. | ||
| There's no med mix-up. | ||
| You know, it's like, what are we doing? | ||
| And so, yeah, and then that turns into that thing where you just then they start getting behind, and I would just be like, ah, I'll just sorry for the overtime, I'll just pay for it. | ||
| And you know, they should they should have not taken the money. | ||
| They should have said we're shutting down. | ||
| You need to fucking go go go get well or go get just a little better than what you're showing up as. | ||
| Um and so that show kind of never really had a chance to be anything really anything special, you know, because I didn't I didn't I didn't I didn't really care about it. | ||
| And the thing that sucks about that looking back, it's like think about all the energy and the hard work that all those other people put into it and committed to it because I said yes. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know and there's also there's a bunch of people that were rooting for you. | ||
| Because they they saw what happened with two and a half men, it was big public disaster, you leave, is his career ruined. | ||
| Oh no, look, he's got another show. | ||
| Oh, Charlie's back. | ||
| But did anybody even say um okay, so hold on, what did he do between that that you know, after that last swan dive into the volcano that we all watched, what and then he's on the he's back on he's on another show. | ||
| Like, what did he do between then and there? | ||
| Well, the narrative on you was as an outsider was that you were one of the rare guys who could party like that but still pull it off and have a career. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And I think your ex-wife had said that that she never worried about you. | ||
| You would always land on your feet. | ||
| Because you were very talented. | ||
| And you were also very loved. | ||
| You know, which is one of the reasons why people embraced you when you were talking about how much crack you were doing. | ||
| You know, when you were saying all that, people there was they weren't mad at you. | ||
| They're like, he's fucking partying, you know. | ||
| It was it was a very odd time where so many people who don't admit that they party, you know, because of their job or because of whatever. | ||
| Right. | ||
| You know, they try to like keep it hot in a hidden under under wraps. | ||
| Right. | ||
| And you were doing a live interview with this lady, and you're you're talking to her about smoking rocks, and and she was flabbergasted, like you could tell. | ||
| Yeah, she did not expect that kind of candor with discussion of uh illicit drugs. | ||
| Right. | ||
| It was just like nobody ever done that before. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Well, she asked, I mean, right, but nobody ever embraced it. | |
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Everybody else is like, well, you know, it's a terrible time of my life. | ||
| I was I got so low I was doing crack cocaine. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| It comes from a place of shame. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And you didn't have any shame. | ||
| I didn't. | ||
| No. | ||
| Because I'd watched something like a couple days before I sat down with Andrea Canning, and it was this old interview with Charlie Gibson on g on uh some special they did for ABC, right? | ||
| I don't even think it wasn't a GMA piece, it was like a more in-depth one of those exposes they do, you know. | ||
| And it was me coming out of rehab, and I I remember watching myself and just being such a I was like, that guy's a fucking sizzy, man. | ||
| That guy's a fucking pussy. | ||
| What's wrong with him? | ||
| Look at him, all that shame, all that embarrassment. | ||
| Like, no, no, no. | ||
| We're not doing that anymore. | ||
| So that that got locked in. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh, yeah. | |
| Yeah, because I I remember how I I just remember how I felt watching me doing it their way. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I was like, no, no, no. | ||
| And then you know, I got all the I got the brain full of you know, fucking nuclear crazy cream that I'm on fucking you know just covering myself in. | ||
| And uh that's what 2K's. | ||
| That's like the donuts, right? | ||
| Um and yeah, man, and and and and you know where the material came from, right? | ||
| The those slogans and all that stuff. | ||
| No. | ||
| Was Brian Wilson. | ||
| From the Beach Boys? | ||
| No, the Brian Wilson pitcher for the Giants. | ||
| The guy they called the beard. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Oh. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| I was on the phone with him like the day a couple days before that, because Tony and I, Tony Todd and I were watching uh baseball highlights. | ||
| I was like, wow, this guy looks this guy's a fucking trip. | ||
| Tony, get him on the phone, right? | ||
| And the next day I'm on the phone with him. | ||
| I think he was just trying to give me a pep talk. | ||
| He was like, hey man, uh, just know that guys like us, you know, we're not we're not we're not we're not like everybody else. | ||
| You know, we're we're we're we're different, man. | ||
| We got we got you know, we got tiger blood running through our veins. | ||
| We got fucking Adonis DNA. | ||
| We got uh yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, we're we're we we we we don't know how to lose, man, because we're always fucking winning, right? | ||
| So I hear all this, and he's probably thinking, cool, man, I just kind of inspired him, maybe just to get to the next moment, you know. | ||
| That stuff went in there, man. | ||
| And it's staying on a fucking loop. | ||
| And I sat down and the the interview doesn't start like that, which is a trip. | ||
| I'm trying to keep it together. | ||
| I'm trying to give her the stuff she needs to like maybe I don't even know what was the thrust of that story, being fired or some shit? | ||
| Or remember. | ||
| So but there's a moment that's not on film. | ||
| And Andrea can't deny this. | ||
| Um she makes a crack about these two girlfriends that I'm living with, right? | ||
| Um expects me to just like let it just you know, brush it off and then answer her next question. | ||
| And I said, Hold on a second. | ||
| I said that was really rude. | ||
| She's like, which part? | ||
| I'm like, well, what you just how you just address them. | ||
| You owe them an apology. | ||
| And she was like, uh uh, okay. | ||
| I mean I'm paraphrasing some of this, right? | ||
| But that this is kind of this is the tone of it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
And so how did she address them? | |
| Um I I felt like they were dismissed as just like uh porn porn chicks, you know. | ||
| Because one was a porn check, the other was not. | ||
| Unfairly, you know. | ||
| And so then they, you know, she Andrea's like, oh my god, okay, you know, I'm sorry, I didn't mean anything by that, you know. | ||
| But I'm over here, you know, with the thing. | ||
| Um and I'm not I'm not letting it go. | ||
| I I I asked you to apologize. | ||
| We should have been past it. | ||
| Now I'm stewing. | ||
| Um ramped up now. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And that's when it turned into and then I start hearing Brian's stuff, and I'm like, uh I don't know, man, I'm fucking tired of and then it all just and then it it got away from me and I and I couldn't pull it back. | ||
| Couldn't pull it back. | ||
| And then everybody's like, okay, well that was different. | ||
| I mean it's kind of fucking interesting and unique and whatever, man. | ||
| Well, um, well, let's just let's let's you know, let's just have a quiet night and and and and and we'll see how that plays out, you know. | ||
| And I wake up into a world of not not the world I said goodnight to six hours earlier. | ||
| And uh my friends are banging on the door, people are you know, sending me, you know, videos and stuff, and he's like, dude, the fucking the world's on fire with your shit, man. | ||
| I'm like, all right, what does that mean? | ||
| Um and there's like there's folk songs and rap songs, and people like marching in the streets and there's already t-shirts and there's this, it's just it has just gone, it exploded. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And so it's not like I could jump on my roof with a bullhorn and say, All right, everybody, okay, let's just, you know, every fighters were saying they had tiger blood. | ||
| They were joking around about it. | ||
| See? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah, I mean, it got it got away from it. | |
| Penetrated me. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah, it achieved penetration. | ||
| Well, no one had ever done an interview like that before. | ||
| I didn't I didn't I yeah, I I I wasn't thinking about that in the moment. | ||
| I was just fucking pissed. | ||
| And I wasn't gonna be s sissy Charles from from the 90s, you know. | ||
| It was like this whole convergence of all these elements and all these emotions and all these feelings and and also the you know resentment I had in myself, you know, and just like, all right, I'm just gonna pick some targets. | ||
| And and you know, would have been nice had it been sort of uh if I could have just sort of been herded um just kind of you know away from it, you know. | ||
| Have you ever thought of what your life would be like if you didn't do that interview? | ||
| I I've started to I've started I've started to try to walk into that village, right? | ||
| But as soon as I take a look around, none of it really makes sense because it it's it did I I I can't really imagine it. | ||
| You know, what what do you think it would I mean what would it it's it's hard to kind of even put those pieces together. | ||
| I wonder if you had ever would have gotten sober. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| You mean you mean today's sober sober today's sober sober you you might have had to have that complete chaos tail spin free fall crash. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Publicly. | ||
| Right. | ||
| To just eventually like gather your shit together and go, okay. | ||
| Right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Time to learn and grow. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Obviously, that wasn't smart. | ||
| Let's do it differently. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Let's get it together and step by step, day by day, and look, here you are. | ||
| Almost nine years later. | ||
| Almost eight years. | ||
| Or eight years later. | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| That's uh you you always wonder, like maybe you have to have that was your rock bottom moment. | ||
| And it was public, you know. | ||
| So the whole world got to see it. | ||
| Like a full cleanse. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Just uh purging of all of it. | ||
| And you know. | ||
| And still you have to battle with the this reinforcement because now everybody is loving the fact that you know you're winning and that you know you're talking about how much crack you smoke and how crazy it is, and you got all these hot girls and everybody's like, he's winning. | ||
| He's winning. | ||
| And so now there's no incentive at all to get healthy. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Which is kind of nuts. | ||
| And not only that, financially, you're kind of it kind of helps you to be like a little off the rails. | ||
| It's like you're kind of known for that. | ||
| You know, like and then you have this big tour and everybody's coming out to see you. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Yeah, which was crazy for you to do. | ||
| Like the first one where you did it without comedians was just bananas. | ||
| Yeah, I went it was a complete train wreck. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It was a disaster. | ||
| But you guys pulled it together. | ||
| And that was like kind of the story of like your career when things have fallen apart. | ||
| People want you to pull it together. | ||
| Right. | ||
| So even though you had that disastrous show and everybody knew it was a disaster. | ||
| In Detroit. | ||
| People were still coming out to see the other ones. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| I um I had an uh the um option um after the d Detroit v massacre, um, of flying uh to Chicago or taking the bus, the tour bus, right? | ||
| And I said, uh, I need I need those seven or eight hours on the bus. | ||
| And they're like, why? | ||
| I said, 'cause I'm gonna rewrite the entire show. | ||
| And I think um I think Natty was on that trip. | ||
| I think maybe Rick, I don't know, Shady was on anyway, and I just I just uh there was a place, you know, room in the back, and I just kinda barricaded myself with a pad of paper and a pen and just went to town and just sort of started trying to reshape it. | ||
| And when I got to Chicago, they were expecting all this all the special effects we needed from that gar you know, all that garbage. | ||
| I said, We traveled with none of it. | ||
| I said, Here's the new show. | ||
| They're like, You sure about this? | ||
| I'm like, just trust me. | ||
| And that and unfortunately, that's the night where it got applauded and kept the train on the tracks. | ||
| Chicago, you know. | ||
| But isn't that weird I had the wherewithal, like in the middle of all that, and they still had enough enough something, enough of that thing to tr to just you know, maybe that's just pride at that point. | ||
| Certainly it's also uh that's the impact of public humiliation. | ||
| Like Thank you. | ||
| Yeah, enough. | ||
| How about that? | ||
| Time to get this footage get this thing back on track. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And it it was it was just it was the curtain comes up and there's two chairs, and I have a moderator. | ||
| And it's just a conversation. | ||
| Imagine that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Didn't reinvent anything. | ||
| No, you know, and I oh, oh, I wrote a letter is what it was. | ||
| Um dear Chicago. | ||
| And it's like this whole thing, you know, including them. | ||
| Um and yeah, so I got them, I kind of got them back on my side, and then we sat down. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, people realized also you were figuring this tour thing out on the fly. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Essentially, it was twenty-one cities in like twenty-four days with no act. | ||
| That's what it was, man. | ||
| So who do you I know you had Jeff Ross was on some of the things? | ||
| Jeff Ross, yeah. | ||
| Who's great at that master at Off the Cus. | ||
| Wow, he showed up and really put a shape on it. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And then you had Russell on some of them too, right? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Who's also a master at Off the Cuff. | ||
| Yes. | ||
| And he and he um he was so relieved that that the two chairs had shown up. | ||
| Because that's when he joined us in Canada. | ||
| Uh yeah. | ||
| No, he was terrific. | ||
| Yeah, Russell's awesome. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know, the first night sitting with him, some dude, like um, what's like the Canadian version of like a a quarter? | ||
| I oh, what's their dollar? | ||
| A loony, okay. | ||
| But that's a dollar. | ||
| I think so. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Is that the heavy one? | ||
| Yeah, someone threw it at him. | ||
| No, at me. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| Like we're in the chair for maybe five minutes. | ||
| And I get from the balcony. | ||
| I get hit with one right here. | ||
| Oh. | ||
| And it just It was like getting punched by like someone with a skinny metal hand, you know. | ||
| And uh and I just had to I had to kind of pause into that and then they they got the guy thrown out. | ||
| But I just thought, wow, I could have lost an eye. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| A Russell could have lost an eye. | ||
| And it was just like, wow, all right. | ||
| That's also pretty good shot. | ||
| Really good shot. | ||
| Guy throws a loony from the balcony and he hits it in the head. | ||
| That's that's impressive. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Because that's not an aerodynamic thing. | ||
| It's not. | ||
| No. | ||
| How you throwing it? | ||
| You have to kind of factor in the biggest thing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's a lot of flipping of the air. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's kind of like a boomerang or something. | ||
| Yeah, it's a frisbee. | ||
| It's a frisbee. | ||
| A little tiny frisbee. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So anyway, so that's there were just moments like that that I um I guess just little cosmic reminders that not everybody was on my side. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Which is important too. | ||
| Hey, can I hit the bathroom? | ||
| Yeah, yeah. | ||
| We can actually wrap it up. | ||
| We're getting close. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| You want to wrap it up? | ||
| Um can we just touch on a couple things before we do? | ||
| Absolutely. | ||
| Stay a leak and we'll come back. | ||
| Okay, cool. | ||
| Should we bring this up? | ||
| I guess we have to. | ||
| So this just happened. | ||
| Uh we just found out that Charlie Kirk got shot. | ||
| It's fucking awful. | ||
| And is he dead? | ||
| No. | ||
| I don't think so. | ||
| That's what was just. | ||
| One of the guys out there just said confirmed that he's dead. | ||
| In the lobby was just I was looking, I've been looking. | ||
| I haven't seen anything that said confirmed. | ||
| Whoa. | ||
| Murder for having a different opinion from somebody else. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Different ideology from somebody else. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| I mean, I don't know. | ||
| Beliefs that didn't along with it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| I'm sorry? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Rest in peace for this news. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| Tw twenty-seven years old, maybe? | ||
| Thirty. | ||
| Do they even have uh a suspect? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| Well, that's why I don't I don't I'm literally trying to track it all on Twitter and it's all fuck. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Fuck. | |
| Nobody deserves he doesn't deserve that. | ||
| Nobody deserves that. | ||
| So were you saying that MSNBC had a crazy take on it? | ||
| What was their take? | ||
| I I'm literally just reading Twitter, so I didn't see the video. | ||
| I just saw people talking about tweets of it. | ||
| Uh I'll pull it up though. | ||
| Fuck. | ||
| And even now they could have taken it down. | ||
| It was a tweet or a video. | ||
| I don't that's I don't I don't I I'm you know doing the show while I'm trying to figure out. | ||
| Right, no, I understand. | ||
| Uh I think they were live on the air and people clipped the what they were talking about. | ||
| It's not a tweet, it's not on their Twitter account or anything. | ||
| So it's someone's hot take. | ||
| So live in the moment. | ||
| Yeah, that's a crazy take. | ||
| Crazy take is that what was the take that they deserved it? | ||
| No, I uh that's why I didn't want to pair it. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Here you go. | ||
| Um Dave Portnoy reposted this. | ||
| You found it all right here. | ||
| Put it's only 10 seconds. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Shooting like this happens. | |
| You could put the headphones on, you can hear it. | ||
| Yeah, and again, emphasize what you just emphasized. | ||
| We don't know any the details of this that we don't know if this was the supporter shooting their gun off in celebration, or so we have no idea about it. | ||
| That's what that's what the crazy thing was. | ||
| Oh, that's it. | ||
| Yeah, that if it was a supporter shooting their gun off in celebration. | ||
| What? | ||
| Someone shot their gun off in celebration and killed him. | ||
| You shoot celebration guns in the air. | ||
| Oh god. | ||
| Just uh what a crazy take. | ||
| Like it might not have been someone assassinating someone for the wrong opinion. | ||
| Oh fuck. | ||
| Well, why does something like that have to be spun? | ||
| Their ideology. | ||
| No, I know, but I'm just saying it's like I mean they want to try to pin it on tr a Trump supporter with a crazy Trump supporter with a gun. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Going wacky. | ||
| Of course. | ||
| We don't know if it was a supporter shooting off a gun in celebration. | ||
| Because you know they do a lot of folks are just constantly out there shooting off guns at large gatherings in celebration. | ||
| Yeah, fourth of July you can't leave your house. | ||
| What the fuck? | ||
| No, that is um that that that's a wow. | ||
| There's gonna be a lot of people celebrating this. | ||
| It's so scary. | ||
| It's so dangerous too to to to celebrate or to in any way encourage this kind of behavior from human beings. | ||
| He's not a violent guy who's uh talking, talking to people on college campuses. | ||
| Wasn't even particularly rude. | ||
| He was tried to be pretty reasonable with people. | ||
| Everything I saw seemed reasonable. | ||
| He's very intelligent guy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You know, whether you agree with him or don't. | ||
| And there's a lot of stuff that I didn't agree with him on. | ||
| That's fine. | ||
| You're you're allowed to disagree with people without celebrating the fact they got shot. | ||
| But you can't disrespect his passion. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, what you're supposed to do with a guy like that if you're opposing him is debate him. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Have a conversation where your your argument is more compelling than his. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| That's what people should be celebrating. | ||
| Discourse. | ||
| You know, we used to do that. | ||
| Do some homework and and bring it to the table. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| It's horrible. | ||
| It's horrible. | ||
| This podcast has been a lot about violence, man. | ||
| It has, but not this kind. | ||
| No. | ||
| I I'm sorry, not not um something is it's so in the moment right now from someone th th this currently current. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| That that that we see and and are uh j j you know aware of daily yeah I mean he's one of those young influencers, right? | ||
| This time from the right, who is uh all over social media, always doing these various shows and debating people and talking to people and giving speeches and sure. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| No one deserves this, folks. | ||
| No one that has different opinions. | ||
| No one deserves that. | ||
| No. | ||
| This is horrible. | ||
| No. | ||
| But I know people are gonna celebrate it because p this is a fucked up time and people have really fallen into this trap of us against them. | ||
| But it's also gonna make people not want to be as courageous or not want to be as as as as as forthright with with the things they believe. | ||
| It's gonna it's gonna put people on guard. | ||
| It could. | ||
| It also could it could do the opposite. | ||
| I I I I get that, but there's also going to be that sort of ingrained thing now. | ||
| You're correct, yeah. | ||
| And yeah, you know, and i you just go you know, going through the whole New York thing, I just you know, sometimes you're you you know, there's a there's a crowd and it's all love. | ||
| It's all love, and all they want is you know, is is your signature or a photo or this and that. | ||
| But there's so much of those moments where you're spent looking down. | ||
| You're looking down the entire time. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And I I don't think anybody wants to shoot me. | ||
| I don't I don't think that that's kind of out in the world, right? | ||
| Um but it just it's it's the type of shit that just lives in in in the back of one's mind. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because how could it not? | ||
| How could it not? | ||
| And then and then the thing like today, and you're like, okay, that that's why it's in it's it's in it's in the back of our minds. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| Well, it's you know, when we were talking about assassinations earlier, whether it's Kennedy or RFK or you know, you think of him in the past. | ||
| You think of them like you don't when something happens in the the current, like right now with this one with Charlie Kirk, it doesn't seem real. | ||
| No. | ||
| It seems very surreal. | ||
| It does. | ||
| It's it seems like it does. | ||
| It's gonna take a long time before we reference this as um something that happened. | ||
| Like he oh, remember he got shot and killed. | ||
| Oh yeah. | ||
| Like right now it's just doesn't seem real. | ||
| It seems uh it seems so crazy that just it's not registering. | ||
| It's not, no. | ||
| Is he a friend? | ||
| No. | ||
| Uh I met him once. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Okay. | |
| Wow. | ||
| Um he was a nice guy. | ||
| Um when I met him. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| It's a fucked up time. | ||
| People are so divided in this country. | ||
| So divided, and there's so many people that love it. | ||
| They love that we're divided, and they profit off that division and they stoke the fires. | ||
| And and they do it for their own profit, and it's so fucking gross. | ||
| It's so gross. | ||
| And to encourage this kind of thing is really One of the most horrific things that you could do after someone dies horribly like this is celebrate. | ||
| It's it's it's it's it's on it's unfortunate. | ||
| It should be a wake up call for everybody. | ||
| Like this is nuts. | ||
| This is nuts. | ||
| No, it's not it's it's unforgivable that that that to spend things like that. | ||
| And 'cause the people they're never thinking about is is that person's family. | ||
| I think they just no that's just like default with those. | ||
| They gaslight you by default. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| So immediately they try to find some reason why the whatever the the thing is that's in the news is someone else's fault. | ||
| Right, of course. | ||
| It's just all gaslighting. | ||
| And that's what they're paid to do. | ||
| They're paid propagandists. | ||
| Masquerading as the news. | ||
| So weird. | ||
| Fuck. | ||
| No, this is a this it's a it's a dark day. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It is. | ||
| Well, one of the things two things is gonna happen. | ||
| Either people are gonna realize how fucking insane this is, and we have to have a conversation about being able to have conversations. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Or it's gonna get a lot worse. | ||
|
unidentified
|
That's what's scary. | |
| Scary this could spark off some kind of a real violent conflict. | ||
| You know, that guy had a lot of fans. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| A lot of people love that guy. | ||
| Yeah, I know. | ||
| And if they find out that he got killed for something that they vehemently oppose in the first place, it could send people over the edge. | ||
| It could. | ||
| It could, yeah. | ||
| There's always that flashpoint moment in in in in any, you know, in in previous times like this. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| You know? | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| It's there's always that tipping point moment. | ||
| Like the Rodney King film. | ||
| Yep. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right? | |
| Something just like that's it. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| You know, this also highlights um just a little bit of perspective, like how lucky uh Trump is. | ||
| Oh, yeah. | ||
| You know? | ||
| And it's just like Charlie didn't get the benefit of a head turn or a couple of a couple of microns or millimeters or you know, and it's just like wow. | ||
| Wow, who who who decides that? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| What you know, that is just bananas. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But they talk about clips his ear. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Because he makes a reference to something. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And then it's just yeah. | ||
| And then it clips his ear. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Where if he didn't turn his head, he'd be dead. | |
| And it would have been on live on CNN. | ||
| How do we know more about an assassination from 1963? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Eight months ago. | ||
| That one, that story's fucked. | ||
| There's a lot of weird stuff in that story. | ||
| There's a cell phone that was traveling because of metadata. | ||
| They know a cell phone was traveling from offices uh outside of the offices of the FBI in that area, all the way to this guy multiple times. | ||
| Imagine that. | ||
| He was uh twenty years old, uh, his apartment was professionally scrubbed. | ||
| There was no silverware in it. | ||
| There he had no social media presence. | ||
| He you know, was regularly training with uh like military guys. | ||
| He was regularly training and shooting, like one guy had remembered him from a range. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Like what? | ||
| He was in a black rock commercial two years before. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Like what? | ||
| His his his chosen rooftop is just kind of between the two quadrants that they're assigned to cover. | ||
| Not only that's just a it's just a blind spot. | ||
| The the excuse for why they didn't have officers on that rooftop was it was too sloped. | ||
| The slope was too steep, which made zero sense. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| Because he climbed up it. | ||
| He was fine. | ||
| Yeah, he did. | ||
| What the fuck are you talking about? | ||
| It didn't make any sense. | ||
| Not only that, the the one where the snipers were perched had a steeper slope. | ||
| Made no sense. | ||
| No. | ||
| It was fucking nuts. | ||
| They found that guy walking around the uh the the grounds a half an hour before the event with a fucking range finder. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| If if if you're not if you're not on a golf course with a range finder, yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Then you you, you know, you're gonna shoot something. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| That's what they're for. | ||
| But it's just man, it's uh it it it it sucks that that to say things like you know, the the the these are the times we we currently inhabit, you know, and and that the that there's nothing that is an absolutely factual statement. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And it sucks to have to, you know to exist in in inside of that. | ||
| Yeah, you know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's very strange, man. | ||
| It's very strange. | ||
| Very strange. | ||
| Very strange. | ||
| It's very strange, and you know, we've talked about it a bunch of times, but it bears repeating. | ||
| I think a lot of it is highlighted by bots. | ||
| A lot of it is uh people are being inflamed online by people that aren't even real accounts. | ||
| Interesting. | ||
| See, I I don't I I don't study any of that. | ||
| Um, there's a lot of that going on. | ||
| I think it's a giant percentage of all online discourse or people are hating and saying mean things about people's political beliefs or anti-Israel things or anti uh Palestine things or whatever. | ||
| I I just think a giant ton of that is foreign foreign governments who are running these bot farms. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| And it's been proven. | ||
| They they know for a fact. | ||
| China actually got caught recently. | ||
| What was this the chat GPT thing? | ||
| They were using chat they were using open AI software. | ||
| Chat GPT blocked a bunch of accounts for multiple countries that had suspicious activity. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| And they were commenting on like blocking of USAID money and a bunch of different like political subjects. | ||
| And what but what they're basically doing is just getting people to fight. | ||
| Just that's what they want. | ||
| They want constant fighting, constant in f constant like you we have to take action. | ||
| We have to constantly stoking the flames. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| So it's not even organic. | ||
| Some of it's organic for sure, but a lot of it is being enhanced by foreign governments for sure. | ||
| And probably some of it by our own government. | ||
| What they did with the with the the Manson family, you think they stopped there? | ||
| You think n some of that kind of stuff isn't going on right now that we don't know about right now because there hasn't been a Tom O'Neill to write a book about it. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| And then we also never know which stuff was the beta test for the you know, for that for that s you know, specific type of program or that specific type of op to be rolled out. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yep. | |
| And like where, you know, okay, let's let's let's see how they react to this. | ||
| Yeah, yeah, yeah. | ||
| Oh hell. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| That worked like a charm. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Activate more of those, you know. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Jesus. | ||
| How do we wrap this up on a positive note? | ||
| I don't think we can. | ||
| No. | ||
| I think it is what it is. | ||
| It is what it is. | ||
| I think we just have to deal with that. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Well, um listen, man, it was great to finally actually meet you. | ||
| This was amazing. | ||
|
unidentified
|
It's a lot of fun. | |
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Yeah, no, I I I think you'll notice now I I I always need a few minutes to get warmed up. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Get settled in. | ||
| No, you seem cool right off the bat, man. | ||
| No, thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Like we talked about, yeah. | ||
| You know, it wants to go somewhere else when I was trying to. | ||
| It's amazing your brain works as good as it does considering all the the things you've done to it. | ||
| Oh, that's awesome. | ||
| If you think about it. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| There's that part. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| There's that part. | ||
| Because people are like, you know, hey man, you should get some laser work on your face. | ||
| I'm like, dude, I'm lucky this thing is still fucking attached. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So go fuck yourself. | ||
| You actually look way better than you've looked at a long time ago. | ||
| Oh, right on. | ||
| I think you look at the sobriety suits you. | ||
| It really does. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| You look really healthy. | ||
| You know, I took a page out of your book. | ||
| Um a very specific page. | ||
| And I and it if if even if it's a rumor it worked, um I use a sauna blanket, right? | ||
| This thing called higher dose. | ||
| And I'm not sponsored by them, I just bought one and I fucking love it. | ||
| I use it at home and then I hear, hey man, fucking Joe travels with his, right? | ||
| I have one of those sauna blankets. | ||
| But you travel with it. | ||
| I do if I know that there's not going to be a sauna. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| Okay. | ||
| So I was. | ||
| I was like, well, fuck it. | ||
| If he's traveling with him, you definitely can though. | ||
| It's good. | ||
| They're great. | ||
| I'm gonna travel with mine. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| So I've had it on this trip. | ||
| I I traveled with it. | ||
| It's a pain in the ass. | ||
| I'm lugging this rolling duffel and shit. | ||
| Who cares? | ||
| But so thank you. | ||
| It's worth it though. | ||
| Thank you for the idea. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Those are great because th those sauna blankets are great because they're portable and you could always just get it in. | ||
| Right, right. | ||
| I really genuinely prefer a real sauna if you have one because I like to stretch out in the sauna. | ||
| Sure. | ||
| It's it's the best time ever to stretch. | ||
| But as far as time with with the with the portable blanket is like a I I tell people it's like a bickram class without all the yelling and pain. | ||
| Right. | ||
| Well, do you do do you get drenched in that? | ||
| Oh, sure. | ||
| That's a lot of what Bikram is. | ||
| You know, a lot of it is heat shock therapy. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| You know, it's also the yoga and the exercises, which are great. | ||
| And also the fact that you're more pliable when you're really warm and heated up like that. | ||
| Which really helps. | ||
| But a lot of what they're there was actually a study that they were doing at Harvard. | ||
| I don't know if they completed it. | ||
| But uh they were doing it a couple of years back about uh the benefits of hot yoga and whether they're comparable to the medical, the known medical benefits of sauna, which are pretty pretty well documented. | ||
| And and what what what was the conclusion? | ||
| I don't know. | ||
| I I have to think it's gotta be similar. | ||
| Because I've been in both. | ||
| You know, I've been in a lot of hot saunas and I've done a lot of hot yoga, and the you because of the exercise, I think you reach very similar body temperatures. | ||
| Got it. | ||
| And you your heart rate jacks up because you're so you're so hot and you're you're you know, you could barely cool yourself off with a glass of water when they let you have a sip. | ||
| Like in between things, you're allowed to take a sip of water. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| But it's uh it's real similar. | ||
| And it's 90 minutes, you know, which is uh b fucking brutal. | ||
| Yeah you can get through a a real good bikrium hot yoga class at the end of that, man. | ||
| You're you're good. | ||
| You're yeah, you're you're you're gonna have a new you you have a different day in front of you. | ||
| A hundred percent. | ||
| We all did that every day. | ||
| It was like how everyone started their day. | ||
| The world would be so much more peaceful. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah, no, you're right. | ||
| It really would. | ||
| Yeah, it really would. | ||
| It'd be a much, much, much better place. | ||
| And you don't have to fucking do anything hard in the gym. | ||
| You don't have to lift weights, you don't have to punch the bag. | ||
| All those things are great. | ||
| But yeah, just do a hot yoga class for 90 minutes every day. | ||
| You you will live in a different world. | ||
| Yep. | ||
| 13 up, 13 down, right? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| You'll live in a world of kindness and sweet people and hello, friend. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Right. | |
| Because you've already you've already put yourself through something that nobody else can deliver the rest of the day. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| They can't deliver that kind of pain you just inflicted on yourself. | ||
| And it's a constant battle to see if you can use a hundred percent effort. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| You're constantly battling. | ||
| Can I hold this pose? | ||
| Yes. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| And and there's no cheat zone. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| There's no you can't. | ||
| You're always doing it a hundred percent of what you can do. | ||
| Right, right, right. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| No, I I was I I was I was going to his his studio on on like Rexford in the early eighties. | ||
| Oh, wow. | ||
| Yeah, man. | ||
| We were with that original crew. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| There's one thing that was really cool. | ||
| Um, Kareem was in there. | ||
| Kaream. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| And you know, the lot of the stuff with the arms above the head. | ||
| He he can only go about here because I would come in late sometimes and Kareem would already be in there. | ||
| And so his shoes would be like next to his locker. | ||
| So I would put my still wearing my shoes inside his shoes just because I I just had to. | ||
| I mean, it's cool as fuck. | ||
| It's Kareem, right? | ||
| And so but then Quincy Jones is also in there, right? | ||
| And so um the mirror, you could see the front desk where you check in behind you, like you could see it, but it was behind us. | ||
| Uh we're all facing forward. | ||
| And for about a six-month period, you know, Quincy's in a little Speedo's, and he's giving, you know, he's giving it his all, he'd be in the middle of like the standing bow or the frickin' head to knee or something like a triangle or something really complicated, and he'd stop and he'd leave the class, but you'd see him going to the desk and writing shit down, fucking sweating in his speedo, right? | ||
| And he's writing shit down, he's sweating all over the paper. | ||
| He'd come back and try to, you know, resume what what he was doing. | ||
| And then this went on for a while, and we came to find out later. | ||
| Guess what he was working on? | ||
| If you think about the year, if you think about like what that how his mind was being expanded, right? | ||
| He was producing thriller. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Whoa. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| And he's getting inspired during the the yoga during the Bikram Yoga. | ||
| You were kind of watching in the mirror the the the best, I think the largest selling album ever, perhaps. | ||
| Right? | ||
| Probably. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| It's gotta be up there. | ||
| Being built behind us. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Wow. | |
| Kind of a trip, right? | ||
| Oh. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| That shows you how hyper dialed in he is. | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| Even in the middle of a yoga class, you gotta run out. | ||
| He's probably thinking about it with every pose. | ||
| Exactly. | ||
| Yeah, or or some And just had to write it down. | ||
| How to write it down. | ||
| Wow. | ||
| How to write it down. | ||
| Because most people aren't allowed to leave the class. | ||
| But Quincy Jones has to write some shit down for Thriller. | ||
| You gotta let him leave. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| Yeah. | ||
| He gets that pass, doesn't he? | ||
| Yeah. | ||
| He gets the pass. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Yeah. | |
| He gets the pass. | ||
| All right, brother. | ||
| This is so much an absolute pleasure. | ||
| This is an honor. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
Thank you. | |
| Thank you for being here. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Best of luck for you and everything. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
| Thank you. | ||
|
unidentified
|
All right. | |
| Right on. |
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