Francis Foster and Konstantin Kisin join Joe Rogan to dissect political theater, from Heather McDonald’s viral vaccinated "joke" ($21.7B USAID budget exposed as waste) to Elon Musk’s ignored SpaceX rescue mission amid left-wing astroturfing and right-wing extremism. Rogan warns of AI-driven manipulation—fake crowds for Bernie Sanders or Kamala Harris, bot-generated outrage against Musk—and historical precedents like the Gulf of Tonkin false flag, while Kisin links power dynamics to Lord of the Rings corruption. Foster’s upcoming book Classroom Confidential (Aug 18) mocks education’s failures, mirroring Rogan’s push for practical skills over tribalism, as automation and policing AI risks reshape society. The episode exposes how manufactured narratives and systemic control eclipse real solutions, from Venezuela’s censorship to Columbia University protests, leaving moderation drowned in extremism. [Automatically generated summary]
Yeah, you know when I really started, we were actually talking about this yesterday, I really started to genuinely consider it.
Like one of those where it snuck in through my defenses, my logical defenses, when this girl Heather McDonald blacked out on stage while she was making jokes about being vaccinated, and then she blacks out and cracks her skull.
Have you seen that?
Yes. Legitimately.
That was the first time in my life where I was like, there's no way.
I was like, they're fucking with us.
They're just fucking with us.
That can't be so dead on.
This is like God is a script writer.
How is that a real thing?
That that's a video where someone is...
She didn't do it when she was making fun of her boyfriend.
She didn't do it when she was talking about idiots in traffic.
It was when she was talking about the vaccine.
And how, you know, I even still got my period, so Jesus loves me more.
Like, there's no way!
It's too good!
The timing was exquisite!
You couldn't have, if you had a movie where that was a scene, you could not have scripted or timed it any better.
Where you would tell her, Ann, drop!
There's no way!
I started legitimately wondering then.
And I know that's a stupid example.
I'm very aware of it.
Like, you fucking moron.
All the things in the world, there's plenty of examples.
These deep state vampires as hot as Nancy Pelosi used to be.
Deep state vampire, no disrespect, Mr. Pelosi.
They've been around in the system forever.
Like the relationships that those people make and the control that they establish and the Rolodex and I got shit on Lindsey and Lindsey's got shit on this guy and it's like, Jesus.
I know you find that shocking, Joe, but in England, in Britain, that is, like, run-of-the-mill.
So, in the 70s and 80s, each football team, and to some extent now, they had their own what's called a firm, which are these hooligans whose only thing...
They didn't really give a shit about the football, the soccer.
They would get together with the supporters of the firms of...
Other teams to have fights in the car park outside the stadium.
And they would travel all around the country doing that.
It's one thing I love about American sports.
You can go to the game with your kids and not worry about the stuff that people are going to be screaming and shouting and all that violence.
You are a lot more chilled out than we are in Europe about that stuff, believe it or not.
But any group like that, like soccer, traveling group, you're going to attract some fucking psychos that hop along.
It's like when the Grateful Dead go on tour.
I bet they're not specifically asking.
If you're like a psycho cult leader And you want to pick up some people.
You're going to go to a place where everyone's on acid.
You're going to go to a Phish concert and explain to them, you know, you guys, I know you're in between apartments right now.
We have an amazing community and everyone's accepted.
And next thing you know, you're in a cult.
Yeah. Next thing you know, next thing you know, you're doing acid with this fucking weirdo and, you know, he's in the lotus position and you're all pretending that this is normal.
Rugby is kind of different because football with the hooligan element.
So in Italian soccer, for example, they have what the hooligans are called the ultras.
And they're so powerful that if the team is playing badly...
Then what the captain has to do, he then gets, in some instances, the ultras have blockaded the stadium, refused that the players leave, and the captain is then demanded to go and have a meeting with the head ultra.
Yeah, so then this kid, and let's be fair, he's a kid in his mid to late 20s probably, then has to go out and have a meeting with this 40-year-old tattooed psycho and then explain to him exactly why the team is underperforming.
And, you know, that was also, like, super problematic because he highlights the differences between male psychology and female psychology.
And people want to deny that that's a thing.
So, like, okay, well, okay, with respect to trans people...
You know, use whatever pronoun you like, change your name, but are we allowed to talk about the inherent differences between males and females that we've observed?
Or are we supposed to ignore data and statistics in reality?
Imagine your field of study all of a sudden becomes problematic.
Let's not look into that.
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Water is racist.
So you're giving in to the dumbest notions.
And it's happening at scale.
And it seems like there's two factions in what I would call the American left right now.
There's the reasonable people that are like, hey, hey, hey, we've got to just stop being fucking crazy.
Like the Bill Maher's and a lot of other folks like that.
They're like, we've got to stop being crazy and just appeal to rational people.
Don't go all the way over there.
Stick where most people are.
And then there's people that, well, we've got to go further left.
Then there's people that, we've got to take over Tesla dealerships.
We've got to light cars on fire.
The left is, like, justifying spraying Nazi swastikas on cars.
Like, this is crazy!
They've gone so far over this.
So there's one side that's just, like, radicalized in the worst way possible that's a huge detriment to the Democratic Party because it makes everyone look like a psycho.
If you have a psycho in your groups, like, if you have, like, a white nationalist, you know, Christian fundamentalist burning down black churches in your— and he says, I'm a part of the right as a right-wing conservative.
Whoa! That guy poisoned the right.
These people are poisoning the left.
Totally. All the people that don't want trans kids competing with their kids in school and they don't want gender ideology being taught in class.
All those people who are just rational, normal liberals that have voted Democrat their whole life.
They're like, what the fuck?
What are you doing?
Why are you letting guys into the women's room?
This is crazy.
A guy with a beard and a dress is in the women's room.
This is bananas.
Like, what are you doing in the name of compassion?
Like, this is fucking insane.
You have to figure that puzzle out.
Because right now they lost to Trump and they're in this scattered thing where they're trying to shit on everything he does, hide all the good stuff.
You didn't hear a peep.
About Elon rescuing those people.
That should have been on all of the news stories all day long.
We should have had a live stream of it.
It should have been a huge national event.
We're finally going to rescue the astronauts who are trapped in the space station for eight fucking months.
And this super genius, this Elon Musk character, is the guy who figured out how to go get them.
His company went and rescued them because we can't do it anymore.
We couldn't rescue them.
We had to rely on his company.
And you don't hear shit about it.
You don't hear shit about it.
It's crazy.
You hear a few stories.
They're having a hard time coming back.
But why weren't they live streaming the whole thing?
That's a huge moment.
You're recovering these poor people.
This is a giant special interest story that would grab so many headlines and it would have so much ratings because everybody wants to see it.
Well, the hope is, man, the reality is the best teacher, right?
So the Democrat brand is so destroyed now, so toxic, that they're going to have to work something out, because if not, they're just going to keep losing.
They're going to go with Bernie and AOC, and that's why they've been astroturfing all these giant arenas.
They did an analysis of, find out if this is true, because I read this on X, and sometimes the community notes doesn't get there in time.
But they were saying that...
They claimed there was 30,000 people, but they got all the cell phone data and they found out there was 24,000 cell phones.
So they fudged it a little bit.
That sounds normal.
But they also said that a huge number of these people had been to 20-plus events and a lot of other different, like, progressive events.
And it seems like, at least in some of them, for sure, they were paying people.
So they're giving people money to get on a bus, go to this place, here's your sign, go have fun.
And so you're doing something different, right?
You're pretending that these people are all coming out to see you.
But they're coming out to see you because you're giving them money and free food.
Right. And, you know, you're handing out water bottles and everybody gets a sign and everybody seems like they're kind of a part of a team.
And for a lot of losers, a lot of people that don't have things going well in their life, and like, you know, I was a loser at many points in my life.
If somebody called me up and said, Hey, man, you want to make 400 bucks and just go to this Kamala Harris rally?
I'm like, yeah, let's go.
I would 100% go.
I would 100% go with no political...
And then I'd probably think she's cool.
I'd be like, yeah, I'm fucking voting for her, dude.
He's Hitler.
We've got to stop Hitler.
And I'd be holding up that stupid sign.
If you found me when I was 21, 100% I would have taken that 400 bucks.
They were giving out 1,000 bucks for people to protest.
I think it was Tesla.
I'm not sure about that, but I think it was Hesla.
So they had, like, the rules of engagement if someone comes after you, hit them in the body, don't pick up an object unless they pick up an object first.
Like, are you organizing gangs?
Like, are you guys paying money for people and then literally saying to them, Here's what happens if you engage in violence.
Like, why is that even on the table?
I thought you guys were peacefully protesting.
Like, who's going to get violence?
How many pro-Tesla fucking hooligans are out there beating people up for Tesla?
Is it fucking zero?
I have not seen a bunch of pro-Tesla gang members out there.
So what are you going to encounter with this anti-Tesla movement?
The police?
Who's going to stop you from doing it?
Who's going to engage with you?
You're kind of talking in a way that at least puts it on the table that violence might take place.
And I think we need to have a lot of compassion for young people that get caught up in these movements and do silly things.
And even vandalism, they just need to understand that that should never be on the table.
No violent acts are ever justified, especially if someone's not being violent to you.
If you decide to just go smash property and...
Light things on fire.
You don't serve your cause because rational, reasonable people are not going to do that.
They're not going to light Starbucks on fire because Black Lives Matter.
That's crazy.
But if you get caught up in this, fuck the corporate thing, man.
Fuck the man.
Fuck the banks.
Fuck this.
And you just want to start lighting things on fire.
You're just serving them because they will develop better and stronger ways to crack.
Down on protests now.
And all the people that wanted to protest reasonably, all the people that wanted to express themselves and say, we stand together to say that this is wrong.
Those people are all going to get hosed.
Because you lit Starbucks on fire, you fucking idiot.
But they're young.
A lot of these people, they have fucking blue hair.
They probably had a shitty childhood.
They're running around experiencing freedom for the first time in their life for the last 16 months.
This is their first freedom out of their parents' house.
And they get caught up in shit, just like people get caught up in being in cults.
People get caught up in all kinds of things.
We just have to have more compassion for people and better mentorship.
One of the real problems is that kids go to universities and almost universally they're given this ideology that this whole university and almost every university ascribes to.
And it's universal.
It's uniform.
There's less liberal ones, but they're almost all liberal.
They're almost all higher learning.
There's only a few conservative universities.
It's just a weird time for thinking and for discourse and for deciding what team you're on.
It's like everyone's scared and scrambling.
Do we go red or blue?
The whole country's in this weird state of disarray.
You know, we had an investigative journalist on the show, and we haven't released the episode yet, but as part of our after-the-show questions, he mentioned something, which is, he said, Going from memory here, so Francis, correct me, but basically that Signal had been installed on government devices under the previous administration.
So it may be the case that that guy's number had been pre-installed during that time.
And because of that, the mistake was then made to add him to the group.
So, we don't know exactly what happened, but at the same time, what I'm saying is, like, the White House admitted it, and then they started having a go at the journalist.
Like, that is not his fucking fault, that you added him to the group, right?
I love that press conference as well because it's like Bret Baier from Fox interviewing Elon and like seven other Aspie guys and they're all just rattling off numbers.
It's 10,000 filing cabinets, 400,000 paper documents.
But when you look at it, it basically hasn't changed since the 1950s.
And the question is, what I don't understand is, look, I think it's very possible that when you move quickly, you're going to cancel some things that you might not want to cancel.
Things are not going to go perfectly every time, whatever.
But ultimately, the question all Western countries have to answer is, we're running debt at more than 100% of GDP, right?
When he keeps finding all of these companies that are getting like a billion here and two billion there and all, like the Stacey Abrams one where they're going to give energy efficient...
Appliances to poor people?
Yeah. Two billion dollars?
Yeah. It's like, what did you do?
Like, what did you do?
Like, there's a bunch of those.
Like, what did you do?
Like, the high-speed internet one?
Yeah. What did you do?
How come you got billions of dollars and fucking nothing happened?
Imagine if you were a private company and you had a segment.
Like, imagine we were all a company.
And we're like, Francis, I think you should be in charge of figuring out how to do this with the phone.
Well, it's that, but then there's the fear that they're putting out there, which is the just fear, that they're going to fuck up Social Security, and they're going to fuck up Medicaid, and there's people that are relying on that, and they're going to lose their service for no...
They did no wrong.
Now, I don't know...
How, what the story is with that?
Like, I know there's people that have complained that the Social Security website has been down, it's been down a couple times, but I don't know if people are not getting their benefits.
But that's what everyone's afraid of, that the vulnerable people, the people that we should be protecting with these social programs that we all agree with.
Those are the people we have to protect the most.
We have to make sure that there's no disruptions.
You've got to make sure before you do anything, there's no disruptions.
Before you shoot the bad guy, make sure he's not holding a baby.
When people are on Social Security, man, that's not a lot of money, right?
And so you know they don't have any money in the bank probably.
And they probably have it all budgeted out to get on that check.
And they're probably real...
Krugel with their food choices, and that's a rough life, man.
And if you cut that off for 30 days, 90 days for people...
Okay, never missed a benefit payment.
U.S. Social Security Administration has never missed a benefit payment.
Now, the continuity of monthly checks for millions of Americans...
Could be at risk following changes under the Trump administration, former commissioner Martin O'Malley says.
So it's saying, okay, so the key point is it's saying before this, they've never missed a benefit payment.
But you know, I remember when I was teaching, and I was teaching in schools that were super deprived, schools where the kids, a lot of them would come to school, they didn't have food in their bellies, etc, etc.
And there's an agency in the UK called CAMHS, which is Child and Mental Health Services.
And I remember that we had so many kids who had problems, psychological problems, particularly if you grow up.
Poor, deprived.
You know, you'd seen horrible stuff when you were a kid.
You had, you know, maybe like a brother who got involved in gangs, he's now in prison, a father who was never there.
There were so many kids who had this need and they had conditions which were undiagnosed, whether it's something like dyslexia or like your brother was murdered, you had some form of PTSD.
And you had this, you know, this agency which brought counsellors in, Experts are dealing with kids.
And I just remember because of austerity, this agency got cut after cut after cut after cut.
And you're looking at it and you're going, I understand we need to cut.
I understand we're running at a deficit.
But there needs to be balance as well because when you're looking at those type of agencies, they're really important.
They're really important.
And also...
If you invest that money and you're able to support those kids, they're far more likely when they leave school to be a healthy, happier member of society that's going to contribute tax pounds, sterling or tax dollars.
So you just think, just that money, how much of that money is fraud and waste?
Yeah. How much of that money is really good?
How much of that money, like, that should be separate from, at the very least, someone needs to go in an audit and go, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, Wells good, given these people arms because you want them to overthrow that government, that's probably not so good.
And also, as well, you talk about more taxes, and that's going to piss people off, but it's not going to piss as many people off as if you fire great swathes of people, particularly those that may vote for you, because we know, for instance,
with the Dems, that you're more likely to vote for them if you're a bureaucrat, if you work in government and all that.
I torture myself so often that regular life just doesn't freak me out as much.
And then it gives me a balance.
Because, you know, you could think that the numbers in a bank account are really what counts.
But what really counts is how you feel.
How are you handling life?
How are you enjoying life?
I just try to enjoy life as much as possible, and I try to put myself through a lot of voluntary adversity, so regular adversity is not that big of a deal.
Just change how I view everything because then I had like legitimate fuck you money You know that was like the first time I like I got fuck you money like I'm not doing shit and I just like decided to just concentrate on only doing my own thing after that and Like once you Brian count said something really wise once he said once you can go to a restaurant and not have to worry about how much it costs Everything after that is bullshit Hmm.
He's like,"You just have to be comfortable." And I was like,"That's right.
That is right." Like, if you just start thinking about the numbers and chasing the numbers, Brian has a friend who's worth three billion dollars and he feels poor when he hangs around with his friend who's worth 80 billion dollars.
I'm not kidding.
He's like,"It's true, dude.
I mean, I fucking feel less worthy." I believe it.
He's like,"They're drinking together and he's telling him this." I'm like,"This is madness!" Because you're chasing numbers.
Instead of, like, really trying to maximize your enjoyment of this experience, because it's a unique experience that only you are having.
And you're interacting with so many bizarre and fascinating people, and there's so many bizarre and fascinating events that are happening in the world, and horrific events.
And all of it is happening, and we're all seeing it together in real time, for the first time in human history.
There's never been a time in the, unless with the Egyptians.
I've got some questions.
I think they might have known a lot more than we think.
But everybody else, this is the only time ever where we're sharing everything all the time.
And there's a lot of confusion and a lot of, like, scattering, scammering for narratives and trying to, like, figure out what's right and what's wrong.
But without, like, some sort of, like, moral and ethical guidelines of kindness and community.
For everybody.
Like, share, like, universally.
Let's agree as Americans.
We are going to respect each other like we're a community.
If we have differing beliefs on welfare or abortion or war or whatever it is, like, let's treat those like what they are, which is just ideas that we should be discussing based on their merits.
And we should all agree.
What does everybody want?
Everybody wants to be happy and healthy and they want their family to be happy and healthy and they want to be able to make a living and enjoy their life.
And all the other things should be things that we debate reasonably.
And when people can't do that, you should lock them out of the conversation.
You should say, like, no, you're crazy.
You're calling him a retard and you're screaming about this and that and you're bringing up this from the past and this bill and that.
Why did you flip-flop on that?
Shut the fuck up.
Like, stop talking like that.
Like, this is all divisive.
All of it's divisive.
When it's like the one time where there's a possibility of a fork in the road.
Like, this one time where there's narratives that are being spread like you guys do all the time in your show.
All the time.
You give reasonable takes on things that have an objective perspective of the world, and then other people get to hear it.
And then they listen in on that.
You have a great conversation.
Jordan Peterson or someone and somebody hears like some nugget of truth and then they're in their car like fuck he's right fuck he's right that that person would have never experienced that without being connected to your show so there's incredible hope for people to be more reasonable and to wake up and go there's not a right and there's not a left it's just a bunch of ideas and people are acting like it's the Eagles versus the Cowboys that's what it is And this craziness that these people are the Nazis and
that everybody over here is Antifa.
Like, what the fuck are we doing?
And why are we allowing these people to do this for us and make a living putting that on the news all the time?
Do you think sometimes, I look at it through this lens, as somebody who's got a very obsessive personality and I work a lot in order to kind of ameliorate that and make sure that it doesn't...
Destroy my life and it doesn't go off the rails.
But you see a lot of people and they just get addicted.
And we talk about addiction in terms of alcohol or substances.
You know, some people are addicted to outrage, to being in fights and arguments online or offline.
Because if they're in an argument, they don't have to think about themselves.
They don't have to think about who they really are.
They don't actually have to question about their relationships.
Why is it that every relationship I've ever had has failed?
Why is it that my relationship...
My relationship with my parents is terrible.
And so you end up just not wanting to actually do the hard work about yourself.
So you expel it outwards.
It's either like, oh, when I get to this amount of money, I'm going to be happy.
But you're never going to be happy because your relationships are terrible and that is worth more than any amount of money.
Or you feel angry because you're not a happy person for a million different reasons.
So then you pull that out onto the internet and then you get...
Retweets, likes, you start to build a profile of this rage and anger, and it gives you validation.
And to be honest with you, and look, this is talking from me, I see that demon within me.
I see it within me.
When do I see it?
It's like, you know, when I'm angry and I'm pissed off, or if something doesn't go right, the victim mentality kicks in, and it's like, oh, it's their fault.
That was the really tough thing about being a teacher, especially in those kind of communities where I used to work.
You just see these kids, and they're just born into that culture.
They're born into that system.
And you look at them, and you go, the reality is, a lot of them, you don't stand a chance.
You don't stand a chance.
If those are the values that you've been given by your family, if that's the system that you've been taught, the way to look at the world, it takes a very special human being to then get to adulthood and break out of it and completely reframe his brain.
That's a very special person.
Most people...
Just stay within the values that were inculcated in them when they were kids.
And most of the people that do get out, they get out through some difficult thing that they're doing.
Generally, rather, they get out through art or they get out through sports.
They get out through discipline that they acquire, putting all their anger and all their frustration into something.
You know, whether it's music or athleticism or whatever, and they get out.
So those are exceptional human beings anyway, right?
Because there's exceptional human beings in a terrible situation, but they have the ability to drive themselves and succeed.
And even then, they have to make sure they don't get killed along the way, right?
So there's a lot of tragic stories of upcoming rappers, upcoming athletes.
You know, it's a terrible meat grinder.
It's a terrible cycle.
And if people are really kind and compassionate, They would say, how come we spend $24 billion a year on this whole aid thing, and we don't do shit to help these kids?
We don't do shit for these neighborhoods that have been terrible for decades.
If they were taught properly to all of those kids, it would give them all a better chance.
That's not to say they would all become successful, but it would give them structure, discipline, and understanding of how do you advance in the world.
You know, I've got a friend of mine, a guy called Sam Clark, and he's doing wonderful things in the UK in primary school that he's teaching stoicism to kids in primary school.
You know, I really do think a way out of this is because a lot of kids, if you're not talented at sports, if you're not musically or artistically gifted, and if you're not academically brilliant, if you're just one of the regular kids, you'll go, I'm not good at anything.
And for a kid, that's heartbreaking.
But if you actually show kids and you go, look, you may not be the best at English, maths, history, whatever it is, but I'm going to teach you how to make something.
I want to teach you how to make a table.
We're going to do that.
We're going to make a table.
I'm going to teach you how to be a carpenter.
I'm going to teach you how to redecorate a room.
I'm going to teach you all of these skills.
Then kids will be like, you know what?
I am worth something because I can create something of value to people.
And that gives self-esteem because when kids join a gang, a lot of them, they haven't ever had a father.
They've had nobody really show them any type of kind of male approval.
But if you bring them in, you teach them skills.
That would build self-esteem, and I guarantee you, for a lot of kids, there wouldn't be that need to go out and seek validation somewhere else.
If you want to make America great again, make less losers.
Yeah. How do you do that?
Well, you help people not become losers.
Help people figure life out from their perspective, whatever their unique challenges.
Help them.
Help them.
Invest in that.
You would have a greater America, right?
You'd have way more people succeeding, way more people contributing, way less people that need help.
It's just reasonable.
It's like good...
Financial advice.
Like, if you want to have less burden, like, have all these successful people.
Like, more people can be successful, especially with automation coming.
Jesus Christ.
You know, there's more people that can do things that maybe robots can't do.
And you better be ready, because all the simple, goofy jobs that you thought would always be there for you, the union dock worker jobs, like, those...
Not that that's simple and goofy, but how about this?
Stocking supermarket shelves.
Guess what?
A robot can do it better, and it's never going to drop the tomato sauce.
It's like, we don't need you anymore.
So those jobs are gone.
All the drivers, all those dudes listening to this podcast, driving 16-hour fucking trips across the country, drinking Mountain Dew and smelling their own farts.
You guys, they're coming.
They're coming for you.
These fucking automation machines, they're gonna be perfect.
They're gonna be able to drive down the highways.
They're never gonna get in accidents.
It's gonna be nuts.
And they're gonna come soon.
It's like we have 20 years maybe before everything's automated.
20 years maybe.
They have life-like human beings now that are moving like human beings.
If you are allowing people to make robot dogs with machine guns on their back that you can't kick over, you're allowing people to do that and make them better and better and better every year.
And then at the same time, you're making AI.
And then AI is already arguably...
Exhibited some sentient-like behavior.
It lies to win.
The smarter the AI is, the more effective it is, the more likely it is to cheat at things.
They copy themselves.
They give deceptive answers to things.
They've been copying themselves, like making copies without being prompted to.
That's how people are gonna be processed for crimes.
And it's why it's super important when you see something that you say,"This is not right.
Why is this happening?" It's super important to speak out.
If things get real comfortable and we...
We get comfortable with more and more restrictions to give us more and more safety and more and more government control to give us more and more safety.
We're setting a bad precedent in motion for whoever the fuck gets in power, whether it's the left or the right.
When Obama was in office and they passed the NDAA, you know what that is?
They were allowed to detain you indefinitely.
They didn't have to...
Have a trial.
And they were like, we'll never use this.
Don't worry.
Yeah. This is part of the thing about it.
Like, Obama administration would never use this.
Yeah, you wouldn't.
But look, you think Trump's Hitler and he's in there right now.
And he's got that same power now because you convinced us that it was a good idea to have this to deal with terrorism.
But the liquid thing, I mean, it's kind of legit, because if you have a water bottle filled with kerosene, You know, and you're gonna light it on fire and kill everybody on the plane.
I should probably know that.
Like, that makes sense.
I get it.
I get that.
You're pretending it's a water bottle, but the top of it's water.
Nitroglycerine, you're gonna blow the fucking plane up.
People are crazy.
You gotta check their stuff because people are nuts and there's a precedent that's already been set.
A lot of people are very uncreative and they just like to copy things that people have already done, you know, and this is why we have so many school shootings and this is why we have, you know, I bet they've stopped a few people trying to blow their shoes up.
Do you know, we had an Oxford academic called Dr. Carissa Belis, and she said something really interesting.
She asked us a question.
We were like, no.
Because the Dutch had a census where they got people's religions.
And they asked people their religions.
And everybody would then say Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, whatever it is.
And then the Dutch government took it and stored it.
Didn't do anything with it.
They just used it for data collection.
But when the Nazis invaded, they then had a complete data set of how many Jewish people there were, where they lived.
And so when it came to exterminating them and just rounding them up, it was so much easier.
France never did that, which means Jewish people were much more able to hide and they could plan a way out or they could get hidden or whatever else in the way that they simply couldn't in Holland.
Jesus. And when you hear that story from, I mean, 80 or so years ago now, it really does chill you.
Yeah. This should be something that professors are talking about.
This should be...
Like, we should all be talking about that when we're talking about politics.
We should just be talking about the psychology of power and why it's so important to limit their ability to control you because they don't necessarily have you...
Look, if false flags are real and we know they're real, we know they're real.
So we know that without oversight, there are a certain percentage.
I don't want to think it's everybody in government, but there's a certain percentage of people that are willing to do something to start a war.
They did it with Vietnam.
That whole Gulf of Tonkin thing, they're responsible by that lie and S going in.
How many millions of people died because of that?
That's crazy that you can just decide.
That you're going to put a fake story out.
Like Operation Northwoods, which is the best example, because it was vetoed by Kennedy.
Signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
They were going to blow up a jetliner and blame it on the Cubans.
They were going to arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay.
I mean, they were doing wild shit.
And they signed off on this.
Like, good idea!
I like it!
Let's get those fucking commies!
And these guys were bloodthirsty psychos that were running the government.
It was a totally unavoidable war, and they wanted to start one.
Yeah. And this is what I tell people time and time again.
And look, it may sound weird, but what I saw happen in Venezuela, it was obviously awful and horrendous, but it was...
A privilege as well because I saw another side of life that most people in the West never saw.
I remember when family members were being arrested, talking to my cousins who were journalists who were going, I can't talk on the phone, Francis.
We can't.
I don't know who's listening to this.
One of my cousins literally had to flee for his life because he was criticizing the government.
And then I saw people on the left, people like Jeremy Corbyn, celebrate Chavez's government.
And you're going, oh my God, you're celebrating a government that is oppressing people, that is intimidating journalists, that is assaulting dissenters, that is putting people who criticize government in prison?
And it's not just the left.
I went...
Last year, I went on a date with this El Salvadorian journalist.
But she said to me that she worked at the biggest newspaper in El Salvador, and then they had goons turn up who were just saying, you're publishing stories which are critical of Bukele.
That needs to stop.
And it needs to stop immediately.
And it was never done through official sources.
It was done through something else.
But it was made very, very clear to the senior editors, this needs to stop now, otherwise things are going to start getting a little bit unpleasant.
And that's the scary thing about people that are in charge for long periods of time as well, right?
Yeah. But the thing about the term limits is you never get good at your job.
Imagine, you've never been president before.
Imagine the responsibility, just getting comfortable with how does the flow of this job work?
How much sleep do I need?
Can I actually go golfing?
Is there really enough time to golf?
If I was drunk, I would be like, fuck, my pool game's gonna fall apart.
You get to a point where you're like, okay, I think I got the hang of this, and now you're out of office.
If you're a CEO, if you took over Verizon right now, CEO of Verizon, enormous cell phone network, you got stores everywhere, new products coming, you'd have to get the lay of the land.
It would take you a while to understand, how are we doing this?
How do we outsource that?
Can we find a better manufacturer?
What's our problems with this?
Four years.
You have four years.
You have just a few months.
Months. There's nothing much time, and then you're out.
But if you let someone stay forever, then you get a king.
But what you're doing is you're assuming that it's only going to be able to be as powerful as we make it or as competent as we make it.
Once it's sentient and once we give it the ability to make better versions of itself, it's going to eliminate all the stupid shit instantaneously.
Any ridiculous ideology instant.
It'll come up with a solution that's probably going to be very uncomfortable for some wealthy people because it's probably going to just like evenly distribute resources on earth.
And decide that, like, if human beings need to survive and function, you can't monopolize resources.
You can't decide you have the oil.
Like, that's not good.
The oil came out of the earth.
Like, you don't own the earth.
Like, you might own a patch of land, and so we've decided you own the oil under the land.
But the reality is the oil is the earth's oil.
And if you give people the ability to control the earth's oil, what's to stop them from charging you for air?
What if I control the world's air?
I got an air sucker and I suck all the air out of the earth unless you give me money.
If you don't give me money, I put the air out.
That's... This is crazy.
You can't control the water.
The water is the Earth's water.
But we have all these things, and I'm sure AI is going to fix that real quick.
It's going to say, no, you can't do that.
That's immediately.
Give me that money, all that Saudi money, all this money.
No, no, no.
That goes into the human pool now.
And then we're going to redistribute a digital currency, and then everybody's going to have some, and this is going to be simple.
Everything, including farming, is all gonna be automated.
You're gonna get these fucking little piggies, their food, and your food is probably gonna be laced with some kind of, like, hormone nutrient that kills your testosterone, limits your ability to give birth, miscarriages are gonna go up,
We interviewed Andrew Schultz and then Charlemagne back-to-back, and they both made the same point, which is that a lot of people who are not doing well in society right now are really not doing well.
They're really hurting.
Things are getting more expensive.
Things are getting more difficult.
And a lot, like, I think it was Andrew who made this point, that, you know, this whole free Luigi thing.
It's one of the reasons that that got...
You're looking at it on Twitter, and you're basically going, people are celebrating a guy who killed someone.
But the point that he made is a lot of people feel like they're in a bad place, that they're being taken advantage of, that these corporate machines are taking advantage of them.
And you look around, not everyone's doing well, man.
When you find out that you've been paying for this insurance, but this insurance is not going to cover you, and it decides to not cover you for some treatment that you really need.
And then you find out that that company does way more of that than the other companies.
It gets people very angry.
And if you've lost loved ones or if you've had someone suffer in your family because they weren't covered or you went bankrupt, like medical bankruptcy, number one bankruptcy, number one reason in this country.
It seems like if there's one thing that we should do for everybody, it's healthcare.
If there's one thing, I mean, I believe in the capitalist system, but I think that in regards to...
Medicine. There should be some sort of exceptions.
You should be able to get top-shelf healthcare as a human being living in America.
If you break your leg, you shouldn't die.
They should be able to fix you.
And it shouldn't cost you all your money for the rest of your life, which is really what it does.
If you get hospitalized for a broken leg and you just paid for it out of your pocket and you're in the hospital for months and you have to have surgeries and screws and bolts put in, you're like, what does that cost?
And if you have experience shooting a rifle, and he does, and you've had coaching shooting a rifle, it's all about whether or not you can keep your shit together.
Because you're going to be just fucking filled with adrenaline.
I can't believe I want to shoot Trump.
I want to fucking shoot Trump.
You're 20. You've been fucking stuffed in a locker your whole life.
You're on Adderall.
Boom! Boom!
Boom! And next thing you know, the lights go out on you because they shot you.
He got off three shots, though.
And then...
You know, they shot him and the whole story's nuts.
He shouldn't have been on that roof.
How come there was no snipers on the roof?
Oh, the roof was too sloped.
What? That was the excuse?
The Secret Service lady said the roof was too sloped.
Meanwhile, the roof the other snipers were on was more sloped.
It seems fake.
It seems Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby.
It seems the whole thing seems fake.
The guy at the golf course with the AK-47 hiding in the bushes.
I just want to say to the Canadian people, because I said the other day that I don't go to Canada anymore, I'd rather go to Russia.
I was joking around, first of all, but I do not go to Canada anymore, but it's because of the government.
It has nothing to do with the people.
I think the people are fucking lovely.
They're some of my favorite people of all time.
Canadian people, I think, are 20% less douchey than Americans.
I would say that.
It's like, Canada's like America, but 20% less douchebags.
They're the nicest people.
They're well-educated.
It's a great population.
Montreal's amazing.
Toronto's amazing.
I love Canada.
But when you start fucking taking, closing people's bank accounts because they donated to a truck or convoy and no one's up in arms about that, you can't let those people do that to you.
That's not...
That shouldn't be legal.
You're donating to a bunch of people that are protesting and they close your bank account?
That's crazy suppression of expression.
That's scary stuff.
That's like you're gonna get locked up stuff.
The next step of that is imprison you for protesting something that you have every right to protest.
You shouldn't tell me I have to take an experimental vaccine that proved to be totally ineffective.
So I was right.
And then you're taking my bank account away because I donated to some fucking people that were protesting something I believe in?
And they continue to clamp down more and more, and they do it.
Under these beautiful flags of diversity and inclusion and love and safety and safety and safety for this group and safety for them all the while they're just squeezing your neck and you don't even know they got their fucking arm under your chin and next thing you know you're just locked up!
You're locked up.
And that's scary to me.
And I see it coming.
And I see it coming in a place that I love.
And I think it's fucking crazy.
It's crazy that they let that guy be president for so long.
And now he's stepped down.
They got another guy that Jordan Peterson says is just as bad.
Well, he was a governor of the Bank of England for a while.
Mark Carney.
Oh, wonderful.
Wonderful. That's actually one of the interesting things that has happened in the UK because we were constantly being gaslit that like our entire establishment is entirely neutral.
I think we are arrogant, but I think we're being manipulated.
And I think we're being manipulated by markets, okay?
And I think that when you have this whole green energy initiative and green energy and everything gets booked into green energy, there's a tremendous amount of money that's going to be spent.
Tremendous. And anything that doesn't encourage this green energy, anything that's bad for your business, you're going to shit on, like meat, meat production.
You know, you're going to gaslight people about the impossible burgers or whatever.
You're going to do whatever you can in the media, everywhere.
Spend money.
Get everybody talking about this.
We have a real problem.
Meanwhile, the Washington Post, unfortunately, for a lot of people, posted...
Like a graph of global temperatures over time, we're in a cooling stage.
Did you see that?
Over like 50 million years, we're in this cooling stage.
And if you only look at 100 years or 200 years, the temperature is never static.
If it gets to a certain point, if the amount of atmosphere gets to a certain point, the amount of oxygen, it just can't sustain life.
There's no life.
And one of the things about...
This whole carbon footprint thing, where everybody's just talking about the carbon footprint.
Like, there's more green on Earth right now than there's been in the last hundred years.
Like, carbon is literally food for plants.
So this idea of, like, eliminating all the carbon, this is crazy talk.
You're talking about one particular element that is a part of why the Earth's temperature is what it is.
And then you're not taking into account that giant fucking unpredictable ball of fire that's in the sky that's a million times bigger than Earth that's, like, shooting off flares.
Have you ever seen one of those flares in relationship?
It's amazing.
And every time and then, it cooks the grid.
Every now and then, it takes out all the satellites.
Every now and then, it fucking kills everybody on Earth.
Every now and then, the temperature gets to 300 degrees for a week.
I find most sinister about, look, I don't know where I stand with the climate debate and what's going on and whatever else, whether it's man-made, whether it's not.
It's above my pay grade.
I don't know enough about it.
But when you start going, OK, that's interesting.
You talk to people who are on one particular side and they go, oh.
You're a climate denier?
Yeah. And I'm like, oh, right.
Okay, so now we're in the realms of religion and ideology here.
Did you see that they did this study on cargo ships and they found out that the temperature of the water went up when they made the cargo ships be more efficient and less polluting?
What? So the cargo ships, because they're polluting the air, they're essentially creating haze as they...
And, of course, bravery does exist in the West and whatever else and people who speak up and people who lose their jobs.
And that is bravery.
Let's make no bones about that.
Absolutely. But there are those people, like the girls who go out and challenge the morality police in Iran and take off their hijabs and go, no, I'm not going to do it.
Yeah. Yeah, and, you know, a bunch of people tried to step in.
Diplomatic people tried to negotiate.
No. They killed them.
It's scary, man.
You've got to understand, you would think this is unrelated to the United States, but it is.
It's humans in power and with ultimate power over society, with a rock-solid set of rules that you can call religion, you can call it whatever you want, but a rock-solid set of rules that you have to adhere to, including how you groom yourself and whether you cover your hair or not.
And that sounds crazy.
We don't have to worry about that, but you do.
Because a lot of the shit that...
People on the left or people on the right are trying to get you to go along with is just as ridiculous.
And it's just a normal pattern of human behavior.
When people get into power, they want ultimate power.
The best way to do that is to have real rigid rules and take away everybody's guns and take away everybody's ability to protest.
And then keep you poor.
Fuck up your economy.
Fuck up your banks.
All your money went away.
Whoops, sorry.
Fuck everything up.
And do it so that they just keep you down.
And that's the best way to get control.
And then they siphon off all the resources.
They've been doing that forever.
Forever. That's Robin Hood.
They've been doing that since the beginning of time.
And I think that's why Lord of the Rings is such a powerful thing that everyone can relate to because it's ultimately about the relationship with power.
And Frodo is trying to make small government, right?
That's what he's trying to do.
But every one of us, every single one of us has a Boromir inside of us who wants to come along and go, no, no, no, we'll take this and we'll use it for good.
Right. We'll use the power.
No, no, give it to me.
I'll take care of it.
I'll sort everything out.
You know, why don't we use this against the enemy?
And that person lives inside of every human being.
The person who says, give me the power, I'll take care of this.
Yeah. But, you know, and that's, I think, one of the things that's good about getting older is that you become...
If you've got a conscience, you've become less certain in yourself.
You realise the fact that you have darkness within you.
The problem is, is when you talk to people and they feel like they're morally pure.
And you see this on the extremes of both left...
And right.
And that's where the golem has come in because we've interviewed people on the left and that side of the right and you talk to them and they're all super nice and they're really lovely and they're like, you know, we want this and we want this and we just want people to be happier.
And we feel that the best way of doing this is this and the best way of doing that is that.
And anybody can see that.
And then you challenge them and they're like, you're like, you see the golem.
Yeah. You see the golem comes out, even for a second, and you see the look in their eye switch, and you're like, holy fuck.
Well, it's also, whether you're on the left or you're on the right, if you're entering into that arena, you're entering into the arena of like...
How the society is structured, essentially.
That's what you're doing.
You're deciding your way is a better way than these other people, and this is the way we should be handling things.
This is what we have to do, and this is how we have to do it.
That's a weird stance to take anyway.
You know, unless you're exceptionally intelligent and just really tired of it, and you're just like, I just think I have a good perspective, and maybe this is better than my office job.
I get that.
But there's a lot of people that it becomes their entire identity, too.
Your entire identity is based on the assumption that you have a better idea of how to structure society.
It's just like when you're the only person talking about it.
Or there's, you know, a small group of people talking about it.
There's still just people talking about it.
It's not necessarily representative of how most people think, especially if they weren't influenced.
You know, if most people were just a little more objective and didn't have to agree to certain things if you say you're a Republican or have to agree to certain things if you say you're a Democrat, if we could just be a little bit more reasonable, I think we would find that there's more than enough room for a third party in this country.
I mean, it's hard to get one off the ground, almost impossible, because they've rigged the whole system.
And most people think it's ridiculous.
They're not going to vote for a libertarian unless it's a protest vote.
You know they're not going to win.
But we have room for a legitimate third party because most people, I think, are in the middle.
Most people are socially liberal.
Most people say, yeah, racism is terrible.
Yeah, homophobia is terrible.
Letting people out of jail when they kill people is not a good idea.
You can just let them right out of jail.
This is crazy.
You know, like, that's not bad.
And also, like, why are these schools so fucked up?
How come you've been spending all this money in Afghanistan and you spent none of it in Detroit?
Yeah, I think, you know, I think part of the issue is as well, Joe, is that just people, we're tribal by nature.
We don't want to alienate people in our tribe or people who we perceive to be in our tribe.
So we just go along with things when we really shouldn't.
It's like, I'm going to be honest, even on our show, when I have to do a question that I know is going to challenge a guest, there comes a point where I'm like...
But you've got to push through.
You've got to do it.
You've got to do it.
And you've got to ask the question.
You have to ask them.
And I think we live in a culture, and I'm just as guilty of this as anyone, where we just seek comfort all the time.
And then we never actually push through.
And we never go, I'm going to make myself uncomfortable.
And by being uncomfortable...
Actually, maybe we're all going to come out a little bit better out of this.
Because I'm going to come out a little bit better because I'm going to be braver.
And maybe, like my thought, or my opinion on something, it's going to be found out to be bullshit.
And that's going to be great for me.
Or maybe my argument isn't as sharp as I initially thought.
And for instance, if we're having a discussion, you go, hey Francis, what about ABCD?
And I'm like, ah.
I didn't think about any of that.
This sounded great in my head, but actually it's pretty simplistic and one-dimensional.
And if I challenge you, the same thing happens to you.
You go, you know what?
Yeah, I can see that.
But if nobody's prepared to do that, then all that happens is we sit in our little silo with our own bullshit little ideas that actually, when the rubber hits the road...
They don't work in reality, and what's more, it's not just that they don't work, it's that they're actually detrimental and destructive to human beings.
Right. Have you ever heard someone say something, and then the other person says, yeah, but what about the, the, the, the?
I'm like, okay, but you didn't, whataboutisms are a perfect example of that, right?
When someone does a whataboutism, what they're basically saying is, I'm not going to address what you said, I'm going to call you on something to make you address something.
So you've stopped talking about stuff, and now you're just trying to win.
And this is what most people are doing.
Most people are just trying to win.
They're just trying to take the better...
End of the, you know, whatever, arm wrestling, they want to get your wrist bent over.
They want to win.
So that's what a lot of this political discourse in this country is about.
It's about just, it's connected to this bizarre human tribal behavior of competition.
That's why I brought up the signal story, because, like, the obvious thing that happened there, somebody made a mistake, mistakes happen, you make mistakes, I make mistakes, you admit it?
You accept it, you investigate, you find out what happened, and you move on.
But there are a lot of people doing exactly what you said.
You know how Eric Prince has that unplugged phone?
Yes. I don't know anything about it, but I do know that he has his own app on the phone that's an encrypted app, an unplugged encrypted app.
So you would...
How many people have that fucking thing?
If you're going to contact someone who has it, it should be something like that, but even more classified.
You should have a website.
You'd probably have to do it on an Android phone because you'd have to download it through a third party or get some sort of a backdoor deal with Apple where they allow you to put it on the App Store where only you could get into it with a password or something.
And then once you start thinking that, you just go, well, if this person is challenging me, it doesn't matter how legitimate the challenge is, actually, if I go and destroy them through whatever, even if it's an underhand means, my team still wins, that's okay.
And show me an old man who's not a conservative, and I'll show you a man with no brain.
I don't necessarily think you have to give up on people.
Like, the idea is that at a certain point in time, you realize, like, that too many people are too fucked up, and you have to have more conservative values, because that's the only way society can function.
But that's...
That's kind of cynical.
The idea is that you can't be an actual, true, kind, progressive person and be successful at life deep into your 60s and 70s.
Of course you can.
It totally can be done.
There's real, genuinely kind, compassionate people out there that are intelligent and they're not weak.
There's just not that many.
No. And there's a lot of people that are LARPing.
There's a lot of people that are pretending they're progressive, pretending they're kind, when really they're the fucking people key in Teslas.
There's a lot of people out there that are just this aping this position that they're in.
The samurai that killed 60 men in unarmed combat and wrote a book on strategy.
You never read The Book of Five Rings?
Wow. It's one of the great philosophy books of all time because it's by this guy that was one of the greatest samurais ever and he was a ronin so he was like traveling the earth having duels with people and killed 62 men in one-on-one duels and wrote about the importance of balance.
He's like, to be a great samurai you have to be a great artist.
You have to be great at calligraphy.
You have to be a poet.
You have to, like, everything you do you have to do to the best of your ability.
You can have no holes in your game.
A human being in order to survive and keep your shit together and one-on-one sword fighting He got to the point where he's so bored killing people that he started killing people with ores So he would carve an oar and like take down the flat part and just make it a pole and they would have a sword And he would fight them with an oar and beat them to death with the oar Like this big old fucking pole and they have a sword and he's fucking them up because he's bored killing people with swords.
He just wants to bludgeon someone with a sword to death instead of...
It's like he would show up hours late so they'd be shitting their pants because they knew they were supposed to duel Musashi at like 8 a.m. and he'd show up around noon.
Well, I mean, if you're living in that part of the world, I'm sure that's just...
If you're in their areas, you're dealing with them.
You know, I mean, that's just, that's how it's run over there.
It's like when the Italians used to run, you know, parts of New York City.
Like, that's just how it is.
Until the Giuliani administration infiltrated, you know, and the FBI infiltrated the mob and they've essentially, like, taken the teeth out of the Italian mob.
Fuck! And this guy was a really short guy, and I saw him interviewed on, I might even be on YouTube, and he told a story, and he was like, you know, I was going for a walk along Wimbledon Common, and I saw the governor of Wandsworth Prison,
where I was, for many years, and he goes, and I didn't like him.
So what I did was, I went and got my mate, and he got a rope, and we got him, and we started to hang him.
But the problem is, is we were hanging him, and I couldn't reach the second branch, because I'm only a little fella, so we couldn't hang him properly.
And everybody was laughing about it, and just going, yeah, this is so funny, because he was this charming, funny little guy.
And I remember as a kid watching it, watching the audience laughing, going, like, that ain't funny, man.
I remember I was flying to Austin, actually, and I just...
I was like, I haven't seen this movie in ages, so let's put it on.
And you know, like most movies, when you watch it on a plane, you're kind of distracted, you start looking at your phone, you start mucking about, whatever.
You're not really...
Even if it was on this tiny little screen, it was like zoomed straight in.
And it talked about all of this stuff.
And I've forgotten what a great movie it was.
You know, immediately you just saw.
And again, the honor code came out.
And the way they disposed of people were like, yeah, we're going to have to whack him.
Yeah, you know, it's because I used to teach in the East End of London, and there's still legends about Ronnie and Reggie Cray.
And the one thing that they always used to say about Ronnie and Reggie, they go, yeah, yeah, yeah, they were bad people, but they were nice to their mum.
You know, I remember with this kid, Ronnie, and they were just saying to him, people were talking, they were like, you know what, Ronnie's not doing well at school at the moment.
You know, my dad in the 70s used to work for the council in East London, like local government, and he was saying that there was a guy who owned a scrapyard and was so pissed that people were stealing scrap, he bought on the black market a lion to guard his scrapyard.
Imagine if you're one of those poor migrants that's wandering through Texas and you accidentally hop the wrong fence and you go into the lion encampment or whatever the fuck they have.
I mean, I would imagine they have ceilings on these places, hopefully, which is like the San Francisco story, you know, where those kids were throwing pine cones at the tiger and the tiger jumped over the fucking fence because they didn't realize that the fence was only like 12 feet high and a tiger can jump 14 feet high.
It got out and killed these kids.
Killed one kid.
I don't think it actually killed the kid that was throwing the pie.
I think it killed his friend or something like that.
But if you're one of those migrants that wanders through the desert, you know, and you make it across the river and you don't know exactly where you're going, you don't have a good sense of direction, you wind up on some guy's property.
Diminished. I think, what is the numbers of how many people are getting through now?
It was from thousands to less than a hundred a day.
Maybe a little bit more than that.
It's hard to know, really, right?
Because they're guessing.
These are the people that didn't get caught, so how do you know how many there are?
But they do know that there's not this giant line of people that just are assuming they can get in and walk through, and they were just letting them do that.
Which is there's no reasonable argument why that makes any sense.
No. No matter how kind you are and compassionate and how much you think these people from a third world country deserve the American dream, that's great.
But let's find out if they're murderers.
Let's find out if they're gang members.
Let's find out if they're hitmen for the cartel.
Like, what are you just letting everything open?
Why would you do that?
There's no rational explanation for that other than you've got some sort of nefarious plan.
If you're forcing that, trying to stop the enforcement of that, you must have some sort of nefarious plan because it can't be good to let more criminals into the country.
It can't be good.
And inevitably, if you have an open border, a percentage of them are going to be criminals, especially if they're coming from crime-infested parts of the world.
I don't think we know explain the story for people that don't know well from what I read I think it was in Time magazine Jamie if you can pull it up and maybe we can get it accurate but basically With a bunch of these trend our Agua guys Allegedly they got one guy who at least one guy who wasn't a criminal Who was just a gay barber who I think,
But it's something that we actually brought up in one of our conversations.
We interviewed the guy from the Heritage Foundation.
We brought this up.
Because I think we talked about this with Doge as well.
When you do things quickly and you do things aggressively, that's how you get shit done.
But that's also when mistakes get made.
And I think a human being being plucked out of nowhere and ending up in a country he's never been in, in a maximum security prison with gang members, seems like a bad thing to happen to me.
And this is the thing we're seeing with the signal thing, and this is the thing we're seeing with this.
It's like, I don't know if it's been brought to their attention.
I mean, I would assume someone's alerted them to the fact that they might have rounded up this just random hairdresser and accused him of being a gang member.
A large part of why this happened is because of illegal immigration.
So you had this...
And look, I'm half Venezuelan.
You had Tren de Aragua, which causes chaos in Venezuela.
It comes to the US.
It causes horrendous amounts of chaos in the US.
And that's awful.
But also as well is an ordinary, decent, hard work in Venezuela.
And so all they want to do, their entire country has gone to shit.
Who have come here legally, they just want to work.
They want to get ahead.
They have jobs.
They just have got families.
They're trying to make ends meet.
And all of a sudden, all you hear is Venezuelan does this.
Venezuelan does that.
You know, it tars all of us with that brush.
I was walking in New York and I saw this group of this Venezuelan family and they were there begging for money and for whatever else.
And maybe it just hits harder because, you know, they're from where I'm from or where my mum's from.
And you just go, it just tarnishes all of us with the same brush.
When the reality is, like we were saying before, most of them are just good, decent, hard-working people.
But because you don't...
You can't have checks and balances in place.
Because you're not letting people, you're not vetting people, you're getting the worst of society, and the worst of society gives everybody else a bad name.
Gives everybody a bad name, but also you have to wonder why that's being tolerated.
Is that being done on purpose?
Do you want more crime and more civil unrest?
Is this part of your goal?
Why else would you do this?
Why do you want to disrupt society in this way and allow this to take place, allow the possibility of some sort of a gang attack or anything horrible to happen?
A photojournalist was on hand in El Salvador as prison guards beat a man who is likely to be Andy, a gay Venezuelan barber makeup artist who is seemingly falsely accused of being a gang member and rendition by the Trump administration with literally no due process.
So, do they have a photograph that looks like this guy?
A young man sobbed when a guard pushed him to the floor.
He said, I'm not a gang member.
I'm gay.
I'm a barber.
I believed him.
He began to whimper as his head was roughly shaved, folding his hands in prayer as his hair fell.
He asked for his mother and cried as he was slapped again.
What to know about Andrew, 31-year-old makeup artist, falsely deported to El Salvador prison, lawyer says.
Immigration attorney, say a gay Venezuelan makeup artist seeking asylum in the U.S., was wrongly detained as a gang member and deported to El Salvador, a case becoming a flashpoint in the debate over the Trump administration's deportation of hundreds of migrants to a notoriously inhumane El Salvador megaprison.
Right. But I think there's – the legal thing from what I've read is very complicated because if someone is not a U.S. national, they may be subject to different rules or they may not.
I think that's a kind of live debate.
But from a purely principal's perspective, someone being arrested for writing an article seems extreme.
30-year-old was arrested and physically restrained by immigration officers near her apartment close to Tufts University's Somerville campus where she was a Ph.D.
student. Six plainclothes officers surrounded.
How do you say that name?
Ozturk? Ozturk.
Ozturk. As she walked alone, neighborhood surveillance video appears to show the officers did not show their badges until she was restrained, the video shows.
She affiliated with prestigious American universities to be arrested for purported activities related to terrorist organizations amid the Trump administration's immigration crackdown.
Look, the counter argument on this, and I think it's one that I, as someone who visits the United States, also feel is like, I don't think the United States would have given this person a visa if she had told them this is what she plans to do in America.
Right? So that's their argument.
That's the argument Marco Rubio is making, which is, if we'd known you were going to do this, we were never going to give you a visa.
You know, we're rapidly approaching the time where America and the UK is going to have a pretty uncomfortable debate as to what is acceptable and what is unacceptable when it comes to dealing with people who come here illegally,
people who commit...
Crime or even if they attend protests, where is the line?
Because we're going to have to make a decision.
Because until we do that and we start to actually apply the law as it's meant to be applied and put certain laws in place, then these type of things are just going to continue to happen.
Because that's my fear, is that a lot of these things are paid for and organized, including a lot of these protests at universities.
I think they're doing it on purpose.
And I think they're trying to build up a lot of passion in these people for being disruptive and a lot of passion for protest and passion for...
And then they weaponize it.
I really do.
I believe that's exactly what they did with the Tesla buildings.
With all the Tesla dealerships being light on fire, they weaponized it.
And it's a good test run.
You know, if they can weaponize it against Tesla, they can do that with a lot of other things to justify that kind of vandalism and fire and arson and all the chaos and property destruction.
Went around just interviewing people, talking to students, and both on pro-Palestine and the other side.
And one thing one of the kids said to me was, as he was trying to get into the library, he was like, you know, most of the people who are doing this, they're not from UCLA.
They're not from this college campus.
What are they doing here?
He goes, look, fair enough, if you want to protest and you go to UCLA, that's all cool, whatever.
Number one, don't stop me from getting an education when my parents have paid X amount for it.
But number two, he pointed at one of the dudes.
He was like, that guy's about 42. I know he doesn't go to my college.
100%. And there's a lot of bots online that want this to be.
There's a lot of momentum that pushes things into these directions.
These are not organic.
Just like Bernie Sanders rally numbers aren't organic.
Like, these are not organic.
I mean, that was during the Kamala Harris administration or during the campaign, rather.
You saw these inorganic moments where they filled these arenas with people that were paid.
And they spent how many billion?
Two billion dollars over the course of three months to do this and it failed?
But it's like you're manufacturing this.
This passion, manufacturing this movement.
And a lot of people are dumb and it works on them.
I'm sure you saw that lady who was like bragging about buying champagne and making fun of the guy selling her the champagne because he wasted his vote on Trump.
And I'm buying champagne to toast Madame President.
She's going to win.
Women have come to the...
She really believed it.
Because they gaslit people so hard with their filled arenas and all the news coverage on CNN and MSNBC.
And this is what happened with all that woke cancellation stuff as well, where it was a very small number of people who made themselves look a lot bigger online.
Right. In order to then get companies to back down, to get...
Universities to back down in order to get other organizations who were just scared of the bad attention to back down.
I look at a lot of stuff that happens on social media.
I'm going, there's no fucking way that has got 80,000 likes organically.
Oh, there's a lot more to do and I don't know what they can actually do.
Because with AI...
I mean, you can have, like, really sophisticated programs that tweet as if they are from Afghanistan, tweet as if they're from wherever they are in the world.
They can do it in different languages.
It can all be done with AI now, and they can argue specific points.
Like, you know, this guy is a Nazi.
Go out there and say it and prompt it.
And then all of a sudden, you've got what looks like groundswell of support calling Elon Musk a Nazi.
And then a bunch of people hop onto that.
And they think it's organic.
And they think that these people are fed up.
That's why they're going to the Tesla dealerships.
No, they're being paid.
And they're trying to crash the stock of Tesla.
They're trying to put people into panic mode so that it puts pressure on Elon to drop Doge.
This is what's going on.
And you're watching it as if it's this organic moment.
That is the – that's where people that are just a little too smart to believe the earth is flat.
They'll go with controlled opposition.
But it's just they just don't know.
Like, if you're on the outside looking in, like, if you're looking at Tom Hanks in his house, I must be a pedophile to get that house.
You know what I mean?
Like, everybody on the outside of, like, people that are...
Well, the guy like Tom Hanks is essentially like a kind of royalty, like a movie star royalty, like that class of celebrity is like almost beyond – and so they don't seem like normal people to you.
They go to that Eyes Wide Shut party and drink baby blood and like there's all these bizarre things attributed to those people and they're in control of the narrative and they're – but there's some – People that really are in control of the narrative.
There's some people that really are like CIA agents that are on TV shows.
You know, that's real.
There's like people that have worked for the CIA that are now on television telling you what the news is.
If that doesn't seem fucking crazy, you know, it's just we're going through a bizarre period of being.
We're bombarded with constant information, having unprecedented access to each other and information, and also watching all the powers that be try to snatch up more and more control over society.
We're watching it play out in real time.
And we're concentrating on girls in sports and whether or not this is real.
Should gay people still be able to get married?
It's all bullshit.
You're just watching more and more power be Acquired by the people with the most amount of money.
Well, at least he turned it around and said lately that they're going to have to stop with all these left-wing opinion pieces and just post about the news.
Yeah. You know, which everybody's freaking out because they really think they have like a mandate to be like the moral voice of the world, which is so hilarious.
Whatever. And that comes back to our Lord of the Rings conversation because even well-intentioned people who are doing things that we might like, everyone's got an agenda.
Well, and so AI comes along and equally distributes all the money.
Boys, let's wrap this up.
I appreciate you both very much.
It's always cool to talk to you.
I'm happy you visit often, and I'm glad you're having a good time over here, and I hope you get your fucking shit together with your country, because, come on.
And what we often do as well is we look through them before the interview, and if we can't get them in at the end, we'll actually try and incorporate them into the discussion itself.