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Aug. 4, 2023 - The Joe Rogan Experience
03:05:54
Joe Rogan Experience #2017 - Bryan Callen
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bryan callen
01:33:06
j
joe rogan
01:29:34
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b-real
00:02
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jamie vernon
00:04
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day.
Joe Rogan Podcast by night.
All day.
It's been a while.
joe rogan
Yeah, we're talking about stem cells.
Yeah, huge believer.
Ways to well.
I go to them in town.
They fixed everything.
Every time I have an injury, I get stem cells on it.
bryan callen
How many times have you gotten stem cells?
joe rogan
A gang of times.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, dozens.
bryan callen
And you swear by it?
joe rogan
Oh yeah, 100%.
Everybody does.
All the elite athletes I know, all the jiu-jitsu guys, Gordon Ryan.
Gordon Ryan had something wrong with his shoulder.
He got shotted into his shoulder and it fixed his neck.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, he had a problem with his neck for over a year and it went away after putting stem cells in his shoulder.
They literally find where the injuries are and it gravitates towards them and it helps you heal.
bryan callen
That's wild.
joe rogan
Yeah, between that and BPC-157, which is a body-protecting compound 157, I think it's called.
It's a peptide.
bryan callen
Body protecting compound sounds like a complete marketing thing.
joe rogan
It does sound so fake.
bryan callen
This is a body protecting compound.
joe rogan
It's like humor.
bryan callen
Inner armor.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
It's an exoskeleton.
Just take it.
Don't ask questions.
joe rogan
It's made out of spider skin.
bryan callen
Yeah.
The problem is I don't know.
I told you.
I called you up and I'm like, dude, supplements work.
joe rogan
Duh.
bryan callen
You're like, hey, fucko.
joe rogan
I've been saying that since I was 35. Yeah, you fell into this.
All you need is a good diet thing.
Because they'll teach you that.
bryan callen
Well, I talk to doctors.
When I did my podcast, I had guys who were like, no, I don't do it.
People who worked at Harvard, I was like, do you take supplements?
I don't.
But then you look at them and you're like, well, but you don't do any stuff.
Sports!
joe rogan
You gotta talk to a doctor that's jacked.
Like Huberman.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Jack scientist.
joe rogan
Talk to that guy.
Jack scientist.
bryan callen
Lane Norton.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Lane Norton.
bryan callen
Andy Galpin.
joe rogan
Andy Galpin.
bryan callen
Yep.
Dan Garner, all those guys.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Scientists that are fit.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Talk to those guys.
They'll all tell you supplements are valuable.
unidentified
Yes.
bryan callen
Well, I had them look under my hood, that rapid health at Dan Garner, Andy Galvin.
And then they just prescribed me just some stuff.
Not a lot of stuff.
Like, you know, just like a multivitamin.
CQ10. Tonkat Ali brings your testosterone up a little bit.
I got a story about this.
joe rogan
You don't need that.
bryan callen
I got a story about this.
No, I don't need that, by the way.
My testosterone was 700. That's good.
But my estrogen levels were at like 37. You're a bitch.
I'm a bitch.
No, this is good.
So I have to make a speech at my friend's wedding.
I don't know what's going on with me, but I'm getting a little...
I'm looking in the mirror and I'm getting, for the first time in my life, a little soft around the old hips in the back.
And I'm like, all right, I'm getting older, but this can't be.
This can't be.
joe rogan
That's just diet.
bryan callen
No, no, no.
No, hold.
Oh, there's a twist.
unidentified
Okay.
bryan callen
Then I'm with my wife and I'm crying over shit I see in a, I don't know, a scene in a rom-com or a fucking commercial.
And I'm getting, I'm not kidding.
You know, I'm dead behind the eyes.
You've known me a long time.
I'm not a very emotional, I'm certainly not going to share my emotions with you, but I'm bursting into tears.
joe rogan
At a commercial?
bryan callen
Now hold, please.
Yeah.
joe rogan
An anti-depressing commercial.
bryan callen
I gotta make a speech at my boy Tarek's wedding.
joe rogan
Oh no, you're all emotional.
That's probably part of why you were emotional.
Your friend was getting married.
bryan callen
I get emotional at weddings.
I'll admit that.
Okay, I love it.
And my friend's getting married.
His mother's an Afghan refugee.
I know she went through a lot of stuff.
So it's an emotional time.
But I'm there to be funny and make a speech.
That's what I'm there for.
It's a festive moment.
I couldn't get through the speech, sir.
joe rogan
You were crying?
bryan callen
In the middle of it, I started crying so hard that I couldn't finish the speech and I couldn't get it together.
So I thought something's wrong.
joe rogan
Well, why is it that men have to think that?
Oh, you're taking Propecia.
bryan callen
I was taking Propecia.
And I was taking Propecia, and it was raising my estrogen levels, and it was binding my testosterone up.
joe rogan
There's topical stuff that you can use to keep whatever fucking chemotherapy hair you have left on the top of your head?
bryan callen
I'm going bald.
I don't give a fuck.
I'm not going to be bursting into tears.
joe rogan
Good for you.
Listen, man, I love being bald.
I really do.
If I could grow a full head of hair, I would 100% shave my head.
bryan callen
You would?
joe rogan
Yeah, I'd let it grow stubbly, but then I'd shave it again.
It stops you from having to have any uncomfortable conversations with barbers.
Oh my god.
bryan callen
Just take a little off here.
joe rogan
Well, sometimes they'll tell you a story and then they're holding the scissors and I told that motherfucker and you're like, oh my god, please cut my hair.
Don't just fucking kidnap me and force me to listen to this story that has no ending.
About someone who disrespected you at work.
Like, oh no.
unidentified
I can't do this.
bryan callen
Do you know what I have?
I have a weird thing where if you clip scissors near my ear, I start getting a tickly sensation in my back and I start to twitch.
joe rogan
Oh, wow.
From when you were a kid, maybe, or something?
bryan callen
I don't know.
It's just a nerve thing.
Interesting.
It's like when somebody blows in your ears and you're like, eee, like that.
joe rogan
I haven't had a haircut in like 12 years.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
I just go...
I keep one here too, like if I need a little touch up.
unidentified
I cut my own hair.
joe rogan
Looks like it.
Do you have a flow beat?
bryan callen
Somebody took a picture of me.
I was with my kid and they took a picture of my profile, literally on the plane on the way here.
And I looked at my profile and I text my wife, I go, listen, I know I'm very ugly, just so you know.
I don't know how you went from...
She dated like a black professional athlete.
You went from chocolate and jacked to medium, narrow, gray, and wrinkled.
And I don't get it.
It was just...
joe rogan
Stop thinking about yourself.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
That's the problem.
Think about life.
bryan callen
No, you gotta be nice to yourself.
joe rogan
Sure.
bryan callen
And I'm not good at that.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
bryan callen
But you gotta learn how to talk.
You gotta learn how to be truthful all the way across the board, but with yourself, and then be nice to yourself, man.
joe rogan
It's one of the reasons why I work out so hard.
Because when I work out really hard, I have respect for myself.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
You know?
If you force yourself to do something, for that day, I know I'm not a lazy piece of shit.
For that day, I know I'm focused.
For that day, when I'm done, I'm like, I know who I am.
I get shit done.
bryan callen
That's exactly my philosophy on all that sort of self-restraint and discipline is that every time you do something like that, it's a victory.
Every time you don't do it, it's a defeat.
And in my opinion, you get weaker.
It's not about getting your body stronger and, you know, we're all flesh and blood.
You can take me out with fucking, you know, a nightmare.
It's more about the fact that no matter what's going on in my life, I show up.
joe rogan
I think mental resilience is like cardiovascular fitness.
I think you have to work on it all the time.
bryan callen
And it never ends.
joe rogan
And I think that's the same with comedy.
I know that's the same with archery.
I know that's the same with playing pool.
I know that's the same with jujitsu.
It's one of those things where these are all perishable skills.
And I think mental resilience is a perishable skill.
bryan callen
And it's perishable minute by minute.
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
And you can never let off.
It's like, you know, you get to a point in your life where maybe you have a bunch of goals and you scratch them off.
In some ways, the most lost I was at 50, I think, I drew a line through a lot of the things I came to L.A. to do.
And what I realized was that I'm not made to just...
You need a challenge, but more importantly, I think there's something that you gain from the idea that anything that happens to you, I don't care, especially bad things, especially discomfort, especially something new, especially something that's painful or creates anxiety or just the unknown.
I think that all of those things can truly be looked at as good.
And the reason they should be looked at as good is more, in fact, better for you than the good things that happen a lot of times, is a very simple reason.
If you take the perspective that it is, you can call it God, the universe, I don't care what you call it, it is the order of things Instead of looking at what you can get from the universe, look at it as what the universe is trying to get from you.
So anything you go through that's difficult, that's very uncomfortable, is there to make you grow.
There are hidden gifts in that great unknown, in that chaos.
And if you embrace it properly, you will come out the other side proud of yourself, much stronger and with deeper understanding.
Maybe more empathy at the end of the day for everything.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's that old expression, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
bryan callen
For real.
joe rogan
For real.
It really does work that way.
It's just like lifting weights.
Like, why do you get stronger?
You get stronger because you're forcing your body to go through something very difficult.
bryan callen
But do you ever have this, like with stand-up, I went to, I'm over it now.
And I'm really happy with, bro.
I was there for six months.
joe rogan
You don't smoke enough weed.
bryan callen
I started taking mushrooms.
Yeah, you don't smoke enough weed.
joe rogan
It's steroids for comedy.
bryan callen
Mushrooms are...
joe rogan
100%, both of them.
Mushrooms make me so much nicer and so much more connected to my material.
Like, when I do stand-up on Mushrooms, I am just, like, so locked in to what I'm saying.
I'm never, like, pressing play.
I'm, like, really into what I'm saying, really thinking about what I'm saying.
bryan callen
I did acid for the first time.
And that was very interesting.
And then I had a set, a 45-minute set.
I was closing out the show in Venice.
And I was still very much in the mix of what was going on with me.
And I remember saying to my buddy Kaj, I go, dude, I don't know how I'm going to do this.
I actually don't know how I'm going to do it.
And then I saw, they had a picture of me from like 10 years ago.
And I don't know how I did it, but I was, I started having, I started giving my younger self advice on stage.
And it worked.
I was just improvising.
Wow.
And it worked.
It was one of the best sets I've ever had in my life, and I'm not kidding.
joe rogan
Isn't that weird?
Because you don't want to try to repeat that.
unidentified
No, no.
joe rogan
You don't want to get, you want to do acid every time we do stand-up.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
I wouldn't mind trying, though.
joe rogan
You will go so far gone.
You'll be gone.
bryan callen
Yeah, you can't.
You can't.
You gotta be very careful.
I was on the tail end of it.
That might be the best time, right?
joe rogan
That's the perfect time for weed, too.
Like, when you have an edible.
Like, right when you're not scared of everything anymore, when it wears off, you're like, oh my god, I can't wait to get on stage and just be free.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Stand-up keeps you honest.
And I never want to be...
What I was trying to avoid was I said I don't want to repeat myself.
I don't want to be obsessed with the same questions that I'm always obsessed with.
Which is really my questions are always what is masculinity?
What's the difference between a coward and a hero?
joe rogan
That's all your questions?
bryan callen
My questions have always been something in that area.
Because I internalized, I think, a warped sense of what masculinity is.
joe rogan
Interesting.
bryan callen
And so it's an interesting battle for me.
But now, you know, you have kids, and like you said, you can't think about yourself.
You know, you get older and you're just more in a position of service, but that forces you to contend with larger questions.
I think a lot about God, which is- Are you becoming a Christian?
I am not becoming a Christian.
joe rogan
A lot of people do.
I know a lot of very intelligent people later in life who embraced religious beliefs, whether it's Islam or Christianity.
And they felt like it gave them structure that they didn't have before.
And even if they didn't believe that...
Here's the problem.
If God did, at one point in time, communicate to his disciples There was no written language at the time.
And as time went on, when they started writing things down, they wrote things down in languages that we don't use anymore.
We don't use ancient Hebrew anymore.
At least we don't.
But ancient Hebrew is a fucking super complicated language where the letters double as numbers.
So there's numerical value to all the words.
So we'd lost all that in the translation to Latin.
To Greek to English like there's so much confusion as to what the original meaning of the word was I'm sure you've like Read a tweet before that was like in Russian and then you press the translate button And then it gives you this like broken English version of what they're trying to say well without the context of their language understand how they use grammar It's very confusing when you're translating things and then you have these ancient ways of describing things Right where it's like it's so hard to understand what their point of reference
was like the way they were describing things is it's very different the way they say things than we do so that's open to interpretation and Then on top of that you clearly have the work of man So if this wasn't an enlightened encounter with some divine being that gave forth incredible wisdom to people Along with it became there's some fuckery got added.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
And so the question is like how much fuckery because you know, it's not zero There's never been a Siri never ever been a person in a position of power over a kingdom that didn't lie Yeah, they didn't manipulate that didn't control the masses they didn't If they were in control of whatever the religious documents were, for sure there's some fuckery.
There had to be some fuckery.
bryan callen
I don't concern myself with those details.
joe rogan
No?
bryan callen
No.
I think it almost misses the entire point.
So, what I'm interested in is the idea...
You know, you can get into...
It's funny, I went to Israel for ten days, right?
I don't know if you know that.
joe rogan
Yeah, I was excited to talk to you about it on the show.
bryan callen
We'll talk about it.
And then I went to Jordan.
Remind me to tell you that.
But what I... What I'm interested in, what gets me thinking is, it's very hard for me to wrap my head around the idea.
I'm a Christian.
I believe that Jesus rose.
That's very hard for me.
I just can't accept.
That's not how I... You can't accept the resurrection.
I can't.
joe rogan
See, that's one of those.
bryan callen
But that's okay.
joe rogan
What did they mean by that?
bryan callen
But I will say this.
I find it very, very intriguing and interesting that let's take Jesus Christ and Julius Caesar.
Julius Caesar, the most powerful man in the world at the time.
And let's just take any sort of reincarnation of that guy, you know, just Jeff Bezos or whoever it might be.
You've got the world at your fingertips, even someone like Joe Rogan.
Everybody loves you.
Everything is free.
It is what it is.
You've reached the top of the mountain.
So, let's take Julius Caesar.
All the power in the world commanded armies, ran everything, and anyone would be seduced by that prospect.
It'd be pretty cool to be at the top of the mountain.
Yet somehow there's a guy who was a radical rabbi, which just really means teacher, a first century Jew who at the prime of his life is killed, tortured, put up on a cross, and despite him being quote-unquote God or very close to divinely inspired, he gets tortured and put on a cross.
So there's no—you die with nothing.
And oh, by the way, a couple of crazy notions.
Love your enemy.
You know, walk as a humble person, sell all your possessions, give the money to the poor, all these things.
And oh, you and your body, there's something higher.
So your appetite, this physical frame, actually should be subservient to a higher ideal.
And I'm going to prove it by being on a cross.
And what's the last thing I'm going to say?
Something to the effect of, I love you and I forgive you.
Not a good ending, by the way.
Not a way, if you want to get successful, but yet we revere that person.
Somehow, all of us, atheists, Christians, whoever it is, somehow, nostalgically, or in our imagination, know that the way he walked that path Even if it ends in total ruin, that path somehow has more power.
Somehow it lasts longer.
Somehow it has more meaning.
Even if we try to emulate it to a lesser degree, somehow there seems to dovetail It seems to dovetail with something we would call the truth, something we'd call beauty, something we'd call inspiration.
That's what I'm interested in.
We don't talk about Julius Caesar or anybody who accomplishes crazy things the way we talk about people like Mohandas K. Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, people that were emulating this idea, the idea of passive resistance, the idea of turning the other cheek, and then a guy like Christ, the Buddha.
I find that interesting.
I find it very interesting that human beings seem to resonate when they think about it.
I always say, my best version of myself is clearing his throat in the other room.
You and I call it the pesky truth.
Like, I gotta get this shit done over here.
I know the right way.
I know what I should be doing.
I know the way I should be behaving.
And I find it very interesting that if you were to just accept that the laws that are laid down in this scripture, let's say the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Quran, the Abrahamic religions, I'm just going to talk about that for a second, there's a lot of self-restriction in that.
There's a lot of prudence in that.
It ain't that much fun.
You can't be promiscuous.
joe rogan
Look at a guy like Khabib Nurmagomedov.
unidentified
Exactly.
bryan callen
Nurmagomedov, yeah.
joe rogan
Khabib Nurmagomedov is arguably the greatest fighter of all time.
He's definitely in the argument.
I mean, the guy lost like two rounds ever in his whole career.
He is devoutly religious.
I mean, five times a day, there's a call to prayer.
They don't fuck around.
During Ramadan, there's no eating, no drinking, no nothing during the day.
The training is all, like, brutal and spartan.
bryan callen
And he takes no credit.
What does he do all the time?
joe rogan
He goes, this, no, that.
bryan callen
And he's super humble.
joe rogan
Yes, always.
He's super humble.
And he's, you know...
He's admirable, right?
Like you see a man like that, that's a man of character.
That's a man of distinction.
That's a champion.
bryan callen
Yes.
I'd rather fight an atheist than a man coming to me singing the fucking Psalms.
Remember when Evander Holyfield was singing the Psalms when he stepped in with the unbeatable Mike Tyson?
Well, you know, he had the Holy Ghost, the Father and the Son and himself.
That's four people that Tyson was fighting that day.
joe rogan
And just pure belief in himself.
bryan callen
Yes, but more in belief in something higher than himself.
I think that we are in deep trouble if we don't have a transcendent truth we believe in.
That's where I disagree with Sam Harris.
Because Sam is a very smart guy and I think is a very – I love listening to him and I agree with a lot what he says.
But Sam – I think Sam makes the argument that if you look at nature, the golden rule, treat your neighbor as you would treat your neighbor as you treat yourself or whatever.
It can almost be proven in nature.
It's a better way to walk.
I don't think that's enough.
I think you need to feel like somebody...
joe rogan
That's a hard sell when you look at regular nature, when you watch animals tear each other apart.
bryan callen
I know it is.
I know it is.
joe rogan
Survival of the fittest is the clearest.
If there's some sort of a mandate for the world, it's survival of the fittest.
And then whatever those things are, have to figure out how to get more fit because their prey is getting more fit.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
It's just this constant horrific cycle of eating things.
bryan callen
That's why Healy's saying, if you're a gazelle and you wake up, run fast.
If you're a lion and you wake up, run fast.
joe rogan
I had a conversation with a friend of mine once.
He's like, you always talk about nature like it's this horrible thing, but you go into nature, it's beautiful.
I go, yeah, that's because they're digesting.
They're digesting everything they just fucking mauled and tore to pieces in front of its mother.
bryan callen
Correct.
joe rogan
What are you talking about, man?
Have you ever been?
Like, what do you do?
You go hiking?
You think you know nature?
Like, listen, bitch, I stare at a mountain lion in the eyes.
They're terrifying.
bryan callen
It's a war.
joe rogan
It's a constant war.
They're terrifying.
I made eye contact with a grizzly bear from, like, 50 yards away.
You did?
Almost shit my pants.
It wasn't even a big one.
It was like a six-foot grizzly bear.
They look at you so different than any other bear.
Because I've only been around...
Well, I've been around grizzly bears like at the zoo and shit like that, but, you know, that's a different animal.
When you see them in the wild, they look through you.
They look at you like this.
It's like a regular bear, like a black bear, they look at you like, who are you?
What's going on here?
They kind of side-eye you because they're not the king of the forest.
So as they wander around, they're always terrified that a grizzly is going to show up.
So they look at you like, oh.
Unless it's a big black bear.
A big black bear could be a real problem because they tend to, when they attack people, they tend to do it predatory.
Whereas grizzlies oftentimes- Get off my land.
bryan callen
My kids are here.
joe rogan
Yeah, the kids are there or you fucked up and you scared them.
There's a distance where they're inside that distance.
It's very dangerous.
bryan callen
Here's my thing.
There are two animals I don't want to get eaten by or messed up by.
A chimp, because they just start pulling shit off because they're spiteful.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
And then a bear.
joe rogan
I want a cat.
bryan callen
No, no, I'll take a cat.
joe rogan
You're out of your mind.
bryan callen
No, no, listen to me.
Listen to me.
No problem.
Let me tell you why.
unidentified
What?
bryan callen
They grab you by the back of your neck and you go bye-bye.
They just bite you.
joe rogan
You just want to go bye-bye?
bryan callen
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
unidentified
Yes, I do, sir.
joe rogan
You want to fight out of it?
bryan callen
I sure don't because I ain't winning.
joe rogan
Sometimes people survive.
There's been a bunch of dudes that survive getting grizzly bear fucked up, and they just have like faces.
bryan callen
Yeah, but sometimes they eat you ass first.
The problem is they start eating your legs.
joe rogan
If they start eating you, yeah.
bryan callen
That's a problem.
joe rogan
If they eat you, it's a problem.
bryan callen
Yeah, and it's an 1100 pound angry dog.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's the grizzly man story, apparently.
It took like a half an hour for him to kill him.
unidentified
That's right.
bryan callen
That's right.
And what's his name?
Werner Herzog is listening.
He's like, whatever you do, don't listen.
I'm just begging you not to listen.
joe rogan
Burn this tape.
bryan callen
Yeah, I'd have to listen.
joe rogan
It's the best unintentional comedy that's ever been made.
bryan callen
I agree 100%.
joe rogan
It's an amazing documentary.
bryan callen
And it's a comedy.
joe rogan
It's a comedy.
When that sheriff looks right at the camera and goes, I thought he was retarded.
You're like, come on, this is a comedy.
And there's a smash cut after that.
I'm like, Werner Herzog's a genius.
He knows what he's doing.
He knows what he's doing.
bryan callen
100%.
joe rogan
Because there is some beauty in the story, and there is some tragedy in the story, and there's this weird human element where this clearly gay guy who's in the closet is out wandering around in the woods pretending he's protecting grizzly bears.
It's fucking amazing.
But he had amazing encounters.
Like, he had an incredible friendship with this little fox who was, like, hanging out with him.
Like, foxes, like, when you camp in a place for a long period of time and they realize you're not dangerous, they just become your friend.
bryan callen
Really?
They hang out?
joe rogan
Yeah, man.
They hang out.
The fox was hanging out with this dude.
The fox stole his hat.
They were playing.
The fox stole his hat and dragged it into his den.
Wow.
And he's laughing with the fox and chasing after him.
Give me my hat.
unidentified
Give me my hat.
bryan callen
I don't remember that.
I remember I was in Alaska and a guy had a female wolf.
And I said, he found it.
I don't know what happened, but he adopted it.
And that female wolf, first of all, he said, you have a wolf, you're not going to the store and leaving the wolf.
That's not how it works.
The wolf is always with you.
That's how it is.
It's not like, I'll be home in eight hours.
No, no, no.
That's a wolf, bro.
They're going to break out of that.
Whatever they're going to do, you're part of their pack and you're not going anywhere.
And it was so smart that he would bring it hunting.
And it figured out that he only killed does.
And so it would point.
It would point the way a pointer does.
It would literally point whenever it smelled a doe and not when it smelled a stag.
joe rogan
Whoa.
bryan callen
Yes.
And then I said, well, what about a male wolf?
And he said, no, no.
joe rogan
Where was this?
bryan callen
In Alaska.
I was in Ketchikan.
And I was fishing, you know, and I didn't see the wolf.
joe rogan
Was she spayed?
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
Imagine if she's in heat and she puts out that scent and the males come around.
bryan callen
That'd be an issue.
But the males, I said, would you ever have a male?
And he said, you'd never have a male.
I said, why?
He goes, because it would always be challenging you.
It would always...
They're pack animals.
And it would always be...
You guys would always be in a situation and you'd end up getting fucked up.
unidentified
Oof.
bryan callen
Yeah.
That's 150 pounds.
joe rogan
There's a lot of people that have wolf dogs.
bryan callen
Yeah, bad idea.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're so sketchy.
They kill everything.
bryan callen
They kill kids.
And the reason they kill kids is because they have a very...
Their pack hierarchy is...
Incredibly present in their DNA. So what happens is, if you have a child in that house, when you leave, that dog, that wolf considers that child to be lower.
It's going to challenge.
So they had too many times where hybrid...
Wolves, I'm going to get, I'm sure people are, I have hybrid wolves and they're the nicest dogs.
No, you don't.
They're great dogs, but a lot of people actually testified at these things, at these, because the, at the lawsuits and things, because those dogs, they're wolves and they look at children as being below them on the pack.
So there's always a chance they're going to take that competitor out.
Yeah.
It's no joke.
So no hybrids, bro.
joe rogan
Yeah, I had a friend who had one and it got out.
He was living on a ranch and got out and killed eight of the neighbor's sheep.
Just went on a slaughter fest.
bryan callen
Doing wolf shit.
joe rogan
Just doing wolf shit.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just killed them all.
Yeah.
bryan callen
Didn't even eat some of them, right?
joe rogan
No, didn't eat them at all.
Just found out that they were contained in this little fenced in areas.
Like, that fence is four feet high.
Boink.
Just jumped over that fence like it was nothing.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
You ever see a coyote jump a fence?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
They're so graceful.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
I saw a carly jump over my back fence with one of my chickens in his mouth.
bryan callen
Dude, I've been to that.
I know exactly what fence you're talking about.
That's a seven-foot fence.
joe rogan
Six feet.
He went up to the top like it was nothing.
Toes on the top.
Boing!
bryan callen
God!
joe rogan
Like a gymnast.
bryan callen
With a chicken in his mouth.
joe rogan
With a chicken in his mouth.
Yeah.
What's the chicken weigh?
Like five pounds?
bryan callen
A hundred pounds, dude.
I don't know biology, but I think it's about a hundred pounds.
joe rogan
What's a chicken weigh?
What is a female chicken weigh, like about that big?
They feel like they're about five pounds.
bryan callen
Yeah, maybe.
joe rogan
This motherfucker just, with it in his mouth, just bound over that fence like it was non-existent.
And I was under the illusion that those fences were keeping these cocksuckers out.
bryan callen
Yeah, of course.
Well, six feet.
And it had spikes on it.
I saw it.
joe rogan
Bro, he went over it like it was not...
He got his feet on the bars.
He just sprang up.
Like, watch this guy.
bryan callen
Look at that.
joe rogan
That is insane.
bryan callen
Just fast push muscle.
joe rogan
Onto the roof.
Look how insane that is.
That's a skinny ass fucking picket fence.
He lands on the top of it.
bryan callen
No dog would do that.
joe rogan
No dog.
bryan callen
Maybe a Belgian Malinois.
joe rogan
Yeah, maybe a Belgian Malinois.
They would do it easy.
bryan callen
Bro, this guy, Matt Ritland, Mike Ritland.
Do you know who he is?
unidentified
No.
bryan callen
He was a SEAL. He trains Malinois.
I had a 65 pound Malinois.
He's in Dallas.
Shout out to Mike.
joe rogan
Did you put the bite suit on?
bryan callen
I did.
Put the bite suit on.
And then he had the dog in the car.
And the handler had the dog by the leash.
And so he said, just walk up to the car and just be kind of aggressive.
65 pound dog.
Skinny.
Little dog.
You'd look at him and be like, whatever.
And...
And I start going.
And then I just stick my arm in and the thing grabs onto me.
And my buddy Nick, who's a bodybuilder, crazy strong, he did the same thing.
The pressure, the pressure.
Have you ever done it?
joe rogan
No.
bryan callen
It'll give you a new respect.
It'll give you a new respect for the power of an animal.
The pressure through the sleeve was so disconcerting.
And I knew because I'd already done it in Afghanistan.
I did the USO tour.
So we had dogs, you know, these giant Dutch shepherds loose on us.
But this 65 pound dog was doing it because he hated me.
It's one thing when it's a game of tug of war and it's prey drive.
This thing had fight drive.
This thing was like, I hate your guts.
I'm going to try to kill you.
His eyes just went, you know, those grizzly bear eyes.
And my buddy, Nick, got depressed.
I said, you alright?
He goes, no, I'm a little bit depressed.
I said, why?
He goes, because I've never felt that kind of pressure on my arm, and I'm a really strong guy, but I said, oh yeah.
And Matt, who's a SEAL, he goes, your body shuts down.
When you get bit like that by a dog like that, even a 65-pound dog, a lot of times what happens is the nerves get crushed, so you can't use that arm.
You're in big trouble.
So even if you're on PCP, you just shut down.
joe rogan
Those guys that get attacked by dogs, like when they stick dogs on them, those guys are never the same again.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
When they grab their arms, that arm is fucked forever.
bryan callen
Correct.
You can't do that.
That's why Rottweilers, I heard, they don't use rots anymore.
Because they were harder to recall and their mouths are so big and they bite so hard that, yeah, it causes permanent damage and the cops were getting sued.
So let's use a Malinois.
Bite really hard, but you can call them off faster.
You know, they might bite less with their back teeth, blah, blah, blah.
Although they inhale you.
They fucking inhale you.
Now, hold, please.
That is a dog.
Now let's go with a Nile crocodile.
Or a grizzly bear.
Or any of those things.
Enjoy that shit.
Why are we talking about animals?
Here we go.
joe rogan
I was watching a video today of a crocodile swimming with a guy in its mouth.
bryan callen
I've seen that.
I watch it once a week.
joe rogan
There's people on the bridge.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't know what language you're speaking, but they're pointing down to this poor fuck getting dragged by a crocodile.
bryan callen
Terrifies me.
Terrifies me.
Well, you had that guy on the Amazon.
He's talking about Black Caymans.
joe rogan
Paul Rosalie.
Yeah.
bryan callen
Love that podcast.
joe rogan
I did not know Black Caymans got to 16 feet long.
bryan callen
Well, my buddy, he was a Green Beret, and he was the last Green Beret to do jungle training, I guess, in Brazil.
They had this joint task force with the Brazilian Special Forces.
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Here's the dude swimming with the body in his mouth.
unidentified
Fuck!
bryan callen
Yeah, that's not a good time.
joe rogan
That's so dark.
bryan callen
Yeah, that's really dark.
joe rogan
By the way, this is not the same video.
The one I watched, it was a different one.
Notice his other arm?
bryan callen
His arm is off.
He doesn't have an arm.
Or a foot.
See that?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
That's so insane.
joe rogan
Bro.
Is this Costa Rica?
Where is this?
Australia, but I'm not sure.
bryan callen
So these Green Berets are with the Brazilian Special Forces, and in the middle of the night, they go, get in the water, you guys are going to swim two miles.
And then they were shining a spotlight on the banks of the river, and you could just see these eyes.
They're like, don't swim to the bank, don't swim to the bank.
But it was all these guys.
It was a big group of guys swimming.
And they had to get to a point.
They get to the rock, and one guy just wasn't there.
And they had a moment of silence, and that was the end of that.
And they got back in the boats, and that was their night.
Guy was taken by a black caiman, they think.
Just disappeared just that quickly.
Just shoot, see you later.
You can't do that.
You can't be swimming in water when there are 18-foot black caimans.
Come on.
joe rogan
Why did they make them do that?
bryan callen
Well, because...
joe rogan
That doesn't seem wise.
unidentified
Because if you're a Special Forces guy, what is that?
Look at all of them out there.
joe rogan
Yeah, what are they all out there for?
I have no idea.
unidentified
This guy opened his tent and they were all just there.
jamie vernon
I mean, he probably knew where he was, I would hope.
joe rogan
Maybe.
Maybe he just camped out.
bryan callen
That's not good, bro.
joe rogan
Those are alligators.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
So, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Can you back that up a little?
unidentified
Yeah, all the ones behind it.
joe rogan
Were those eyes behind you?
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh!
joe rogan
Look at all the eyes!
Well, that's...
That's a nightmare.
That is so insane.
bryan callen
You go out to take a piss and you just get rolled.
joe rogan
That must be like a place where they all beach to dry off or something.
bryan callen
I don't know.
Back to God.
That's hell right there.
joe rogan
That is hell.
Hell on earth.
bryan callen
Do you think about spirituality or God?
joe rogan
I try not to because it's annoying.
I definitely don't bring it up.
bryan callen
Yeah.
But you have a lot of people on who talk about it.
joe rogan
I've been thinking a lot about spirituality.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know.
There was a follow-up video.
This was in Brazil.
Oh, wow.
They did Attack His Ten a little bit.
So are those Black Camens as well?
bryan callen
Yeah, those are Black Camens.
joe rogan
Oh, my God, dude.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Homeboy just decided to camp out where they nest.
bryan callen
Yeah, you do that in Australia and they come into your tent, so don't do that.
unidentified
Fuck.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's just, there's so many interesting things on this earth in terms of life forms and how they interact with the other life forms.
Some of them eat them with their face.
unidentified
Okay.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
Big, giant life forms.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
That have existed in that same exact shape for how many millions of years?
How many millions of years have crocodiles been around?
Let's guess.
A hundred?
bryan callen
I mean, they're dinosaurs.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, they're giant reptiles, right?
Like, what is the number?
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
I'm going to say 100 million years.
They probably predate the dinosaurs, don't they?
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
Or coexisted with the dinosaurs.
bryan callen
I would imagine a version of them.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I mean, that's probably what life was like 65 million years ago.
It was just that everywhere.
Very few mammals.
bryan callen
I think what you're supposed to do is say you're on an island and you have to get to safety.
Because there was that story about the guys who got stranded on an island.
joe rogan
240 million years ago.
They first appeared 240 million years ago.
It was the Mesozoic era in the time of the dinosaurs.
While others have evolved into different shapes and forms, the crocs stuck.
The crocs have stuck to the same structure for the last 200 million years.
bryan callen
That's not in the Bible, dude.
joe rogan
See, that's the problem, right?
That's the problem.
bryan callen
Well, that's my problem.
For me, it's about metaphor.
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
Right?
Like, there are too many contradictions.
That's why I don't get hung up on the details.
I'm just more interested in the overall arching idea that I do think there is something called truth, and I think there's something called a lie.
I think there's something called a good way to live and a bad way to live.
And I think if you extrapolate in either direction, one leads to something like fulfillment or who you're supposed to be, and then the other leads to who you're not supposed to be.
That's what I kind of obsess about.
joe rogan
What do you think is the source of it?
Where did the Bible come from?
Did it come from man's inherent understanding of his connection with God and they wrote things down and eventually became stories?
Or were there real experiences that were divine?
bryan callen
I'll answer it this way.
I think that anytime you go through any kind of loss or destruction or hardship, you have a better chance at seeing something you wouldn't if you came from nothing but comfort, safety, and something like the Garden of Eden.
So I think that it's...
I don't think anybody escapes suffering.
I don't think anybody escapes some kind of ruin, some kind of loss, some kind of even age.
You start to lose all the things you're proud of.
And I think having to contend with that, maybe, and trying to derive meaning from that, because if you don't have that— But hang on.
joe rogan
So that's a person.
That's not God, right?
So it's a person's experience with misery and life and reality.
It led to the creation of the Bible?
bryan callen
I think I'm just talking about the idea that there are things that human beings are capable of.
For example, conceiving of something that doesn't have any material relevance in the world, but that later on does.
So let me give you an example.
There are mathematicians that devote their entire life to a theorem.
It's 350 pages long.
They're 80 years old.
Six people in the world understand what it's about.
And they end up dying.
And in 150 years later, somebody's trying to put a rover on Mars.
And they go, you know what?
This equation actually is what I've been looking for and what we need to do such and such and such and such.
So all of a sudden, it bears material reality.
And I think that that's an example of maybe something that is grounded in the human mind that doesn't have to have its roots in experience, doesn't have to have its roots in what you can touch and what you can measure, but rather what you can imagine.
That's interesting to me.
That's the difference between a human being, say, and chat GPT, or artificial intelligence.
The idea that artificial intelligence is working on a model that already exists.
It's sourcing from everything that's already been.
Something like the theory of relativity, or something like a theoretical math theorem, or for that matter, even something that's really beautiful.
I don't know what it would be, like the Sistine Chapel.
Right.
That brings us to our knees because it surprises us.
It shocks us.
It goes beyond what we thought was possible.
That, I think, is what's endlessly fascinating.
And then I would say to you, why?
What is it about the human brain that we have a mind that can actually conceive of something like that and wants to?
What is it about our mind that seems to have limitless potential for understanding and for creativity?
To what end?
To what end?
It's not just comfort.
It's not just, you know, so I can have more food and I can watch more stuff.
Anybody who's had all that, sensation doesn't do the trick, man.
You can follow all the sensation you want.
joe rogan
There also seems to be something with creating something as undeniably amazing and beautiful like St. Peter's Basilica, where when you walk in there, it's so overwhelmingly beautiful that everyone gasps and all these people are looking around.
And isn't that, in a sense, doesn't that mimic the divine force of creation in the universe?
bryan callen
Yeah, you know what it does?
joe rogan
Human beings and their creativity and their mind and their effort to express that have created this awe-inspiring thing of beauty.
bryan callen
And you know what Schopenhauer and Nietzsche said about that?
That is called...
When you see great art like that, when you do great art...
Anything like that.
When you say, I had a feeling of awe, what you're really saying is, I forgot I was human for a second.
Or an hour or whatever.
Meaning, you forget you have to go to the bathroom, you have to have sex, you have to eat, you have to make money.
Something about that arrested development, that sort of in high relief, you kind of go, you just get, you're awed by something that is possible.
There's this, it's like a majesty.
It's like this thing where you just go, How do you not believe in God when I have this feeling, this feeling of inspiration maybe?
And so God, again, let's be careful with that.
I don't like to say Jesus.
I'm just saying something bigger than myself.
joe rogan
Overwhelming power of the universe.
bryan callen
There might be a point.
There might be a point to this.
There might be something about, like, those two different ideas of power.
There's power that makes me bow my head, I'm afraid of you, okay, which Pol Pot or Mao Zedong or Stalin had.
And then there's the kind of power that Michael Jordan has, you know, where I look up and I want to be like you.
And it's the same idea.
So you see somebody who seems to do what you didn't think was possible.
You watch Jordan in his prime.
You know, you watch an amazing musician do something on a guitar like Jeff Beck and create a sound you hadn't heard, or the Sistine Chapel, or whatever it might be, and you just go, how did you do that, man?
How the fuck did you do that?
joe rogan
And then there's a similar feeling that you get when you see mountains.
Like, if you are on a ridge and you're looking out and you're seeing these snow-capped mountains and a creek running through it and deer walking by, you're like, holy shit is this beautiful.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
It's beautiful.
And what is that thing about people?
The recognition of beauty.
Like, are we the only animal that recognizes beauty?
Because we don't just recognize it.
We value it so highly.
Whether it's a beautiful landscape or a beautiful car or a beautiful woman, a beautiful house.
There's something about the way things look that to us is just...
It's awe-inspiring.
bryan callen
Well, there's a whole body of, you know, romantic body of thought that says that beauty and truth are almost the same thing.
You know how the Greeks define beauty?
It's a beautiful way of doing it.
In one word, harmony.
And if you watch a cheater run, that's what you're watching.
If you watch even symmetry on a human body, you watch somebody in slow motion doing what they do really well, a great boxer.
You watch Crawford or someone.
There's something about where they place their feet, how they move their body.
Even the way a great athlete is built is a thing of beauty.
joe rogan
Sure, like martial arts.
It really is an art form.
Because when someone pulls it off in an amazing way, it is beautiful.
It really is.
There's no denying it.
Like when Justin Gaethje head kicked Dustin Poirier this weekend.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
That was a thing of beauty.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
It was amazing.
It was amazing.
bryan callen
Were you there for that?
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was amazing.
bryan callen
Did you hear it?
joe rogan
Oh yeah.
It was perfect.
It was the perfect kick.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
Amazing.
bryan callen
One little detail.
joe rogan
To land that on Dustin Poirier like that.
And KO him, amazing.
bryan callen
We had, I had on Fighter and a Kid yesterday, we had Jorge Masvidal, who I love.
joe rogan
I love that dude.
bryan callen
He's the best.
And Jorge was, you know, Dustin's his boy.
So Jorge was, he's at the fight, he's like, he kept watching every time Dustin would kick low, Justin was kind of dipping his head.
So Jorge, right at the start of the second round, he's like, head kick!
Dustin, head kick!
Oh, fuck.
I didn't say Justin.
Dustin, and he just caught him.
And it was just because he had his hand here.
joe rogan
Yeah, it wrapped around his head.
Yeah.
bryan callen
By the way, I don't know if you've heard the rumor, but Masvidal looked at Brennan yesterday on Fighter and Kid and said, hey man, you could always step in the old cage again.
joe rogan
Oh, boy.
bryan callen
And, you know, but the numbers, there's some numbers thrown around there.
And I was like, I heard those numbers.
And I kind of went, hey, he's in.
And Brendan was like, hey, what the fuck are you talking about?
I go, shut the fuck up, dude.
And I was like, maybe I'll do it.
It's some numbers.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Brendan does not need to get hit in the head anymore.
bryan callen
Just, hey, wrestle him!
joe rogan
I thought you were his friend.
bryan callen
Wrestle him!
joe rogan
If you can.
bryan callen
He was throwing Derek Lewis out there with no gloves.
joe rogan
Oh, good Lord.
bryan callen
But wait, hold on.
Just hear me out.
joe rogan
Do you want to die?
bryan callen
Sir, hear me out.
joe rogan
What?
bryan callen
I'm just talking about just shoot a blast double, take him to the ground, and then we got that.
joe rogan
Shut the fuck up.
Shut the fuck up.
bryan callen
I'm just talking.
joe rogan
Derrick Lewis puts people in neighboring dimensions.
He hits you so fucking hard, you just cease to exist in this plane.
bryan callen
So terrifying.
joe rogan
When he knocked out Curtis Blades with that uppercut, Curtis Blades is a big man.
bryan callen
Yes, I've seen him trade.
joe rogan
He's a big monster.
And when Derek landed an uppercut and just flat-lined him, he just face-planted him.
I'm like, good lord.
bryan callen
What is that power?
joe rogan
He's the best power in the history of the sport.
bryan callen
He does?
joe rogan
Yes.
Derek Lewis has the most knockouts.
Statistically, he has the most knockouts.
bryan callen
More than Ngannou?
joe rogan
We asked 14 now, I believe.
Because he just knocked out Rogerio de Lima.
He's a fucking monster, man.
When Derek starts swinging bombs at you, man, the power that guy generates is so crazy.
Even Ngannou didn't engage with him.
That was the most boring fight of all time.
Watch this again.
Watch that uppercut again.
Watch how he lands it.
Look at this.
Boom!
bryan callen
I mean, he's out.
joe rogan
He's out long before that.
I mean, he's out before he hits the ground.
bryan callen
Oh, that's awful.
joe rogan
Derrick's the number one knockout puncher in the history of the sport.
He has more knockouts than anybody in any division in all the sport.
He fucks everybody up, dude.
Dude, you don't want to get hit once by Derrick Lewis.
He drops bombs, man.
bryan callen
All I'm saying is, is there a number on a check?
joe rogan
He's a lot more fit now too.
That was what's really interesting about his last fight.
He really dedicated himself.
He had a fucking, he had abs.
He looked at the weigh-ins, he had abs.
You look at him like, because he used to have to starve himself to make 265. So he would really like be undisciplined about it and go where he had to go three days without eating.
And he did that a couple of times.
He did that for one of his last fights and he felt terrible.
Because he's got to weigh 265, which is to me insane.
bryan callen
That he has to suck down.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
That's how big he is.
joe rogan
That's how big he is.
bryan callen
I was in the elevator with him once.
joe rogan
And that's also why they should have a fucking super heavyweight division.
Don't you want to see a 400-pound dude?
bryan callen
Yes, I do.
Yes, I do.
joe rogan
Want to see the Mountain fight in MMA? I agree.
The Mountain could not fight in MMA. He's too big.
bryan callen
Well, the biggest guy is Brian Shaw.
joe rogan
Oh my god, how big is that guy?
bryan callen
I've become good friends with.
joe rogan
He's so big.
What does he weigh?
bryan callen
So Brian came to my show in Denver, and I did a whole episode of, two episodes called Best Of, you know, my YouTube show with him.
I went to his gym, and I worked out with him, and it was just so much fun.
joe rogan
Does he do like the Atlas stones and shit?
bryan callen
Dude, dude, listen.
He was, this is a real thing, okay?
He's 6'8", I think might be 6'9", and he is- 441 pounds.
He was 465 pounds, trim!
Fucking trim!
joe rogan
465. So he would have to lose 200 pounds to fight in the UFC. Dude, he took 300 pounds in one hand, Joe.
bryan callen
300 pounds in one hand, look.
And went like that.
He squatted 720. 720. What is the size of that guy?
Yeah, he's ridiculous.
joe rogan
That's so insane.
bryan callen
But there's more to him.
He's a very smart guy, though.
Very smart.
You've got to have him on the podcast.
Very smart.
He's about to do the Brian Shaw Classic, which is going to be huge.
He's squatting a car in the Brian Shaw Classic.
joe rogan
Imagine trying to do jiu-jitsu against that guy.
What are you gonna do?
bryan callen
Well, I'm a little obsessed with him because he squatted 720 pounds 13 times in under a minute.
joe rogan
Why don't we get this guy to train jiu-jitsu?
How old is he?
bryan callen
He's 40!
joe rogan
He'd smoke everybody.
bryan callen
I know he would.
joe rogan
All you have to do is get him to like blue belt level.
bryan callen
He's playing with the idea of arm wrestling.
And Levant, the greatest guy of all time, sent a funny video going, Brian, we don't need you in the arm wrestling division.
He's so ridiculously strong.
You've got to remember, he picked up a Thomas Inch barbell.
He was playing basketball.
And he was just walking around like a giant guy.
And you know what the Thomas Inch is?
It's a circus trick.
Like, nobody can do it.
You have to pinch the barbell and lift it up.
It's like everybody who's strong tries to do it.
You can't do it.
It's one in like 100 million people can do it.
And he walked over and goes...
joe rogan
I don't know.
bryan callen
What is this?
And they go, that's a Tom Sinch.
Try to pick it up.
Nobody could do it all day.
And he goes, okay.
And just pinched and went, this?
And the guy goes, do you know what you just did?
He goes, no.
joe rogan
This is before you start training?
bryan callen
Yes, sir.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
bryan callen
And he goes, if you don't become a strongman.
But what makes Brian special is his intelligence, but he's super competitive.
To the point, he came to my show in Denver, and we're talking.
joe rogan
Size of the fucking head.
bryan callen
Yeah, those are over 200 pounds.
joe rogan
Bro, I want to get in his ear.
bryan callen
Oh, no, no.
Listen to this.
joe rogan
Talk him into slap fighting.
bryan callen
Well, there's a video of him slap fighting.
No!
Yes.
You don't understand how big he is, Bob.
joe rogan
Oh, I do understand.
I saw a picture of you guys next to each other.
He's like Shaquille O'Neal, but built like the Hulk.
bryan callen
But this is how he is.
He read a story about a guy.
I think he knew the guy who got fucked up by a black bear.
The bear pulled his face off or something like that.
And the bear weighed like...
I think they found the bear and the bear was like 450 pounds.
Okay?
And Brian was like...
He told me this story.
I go, so what are you saying?
He goes...
I just...
unidentified
I just want to know how I do against the bear.
bryan callen
And he was dead serious.
I go, what do you mean?
He goes, I mean, I'm just telling you.
You know, I'm just saying...
I'm going to give the bear trouble.
joe rogan
He's not going to give the bear any trouble.
bryan callen
But it was so funny.
joe rogan
It's sad.
bryan callen
I go, stop it right now.
Stop it right now.
He goes, I'm just saying...
I'm just curious.
But he's that competitive.
He's that fucking competitive.
joe rogan
That's cute.
As far as human beings go, that guy rules the roost.
bryan callen
That is correct.
joe rogan
But when it comes to bears...
bryan callen
I told him that.
joe rogan
He might as well be you.
He might as well be me.
He might as well be Jamie.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
He might as well be a 12-year-old boy.
bryan callen
Well, no.
No, I think he gives the bear some trouble.
joe rogan
He gives the bear no trouble.
bryan callen
He's 450 pounds.
joe rogan
It doesn't matter.
bryan callen
And crazy strong.
joe rogan
It doesn't matter.
You're not a bear.
bryan callen
No, I know.
joe rogan
The strength those things have.
bryan callen
Yeah.
The speed.
joe rogan
The bite force.
They drag mooses around with their face.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
They bite a moose and just drag it into the woods by their face.
bryan callen
I'm talking about a 450-pound bear.
joe rogan
What kind of bitch-ass bear are you talking about?
bryan callen
Hey, man.
Black bears.
joe rogan
He'd still get fucked up.
The bites.
The bites would be so terrifying.
They'd start shredding pieces off of you, and then you're bleeding, and then you're getting weak.
You have no chance.
bryan callen
Now, he's going to be a sweetheart here.
joe rogan
Who's this guy on his back?
bryan callen
Dustin?
Yeah.
joe rogan
Get some real quick.
Dustin gets him?
Because he doesn't know what to do.
bryan callen
Sort of.
joe rogan
Yeah, but if you talk, listen, he kind of let him do that.
If he wanted to, he could have fucking slammed him.
But the reality, okay, here we go.
bryan callen
Watch this.
joe rogan
So now he's in guard.
bryan callen
He's doing, if he really wants to get wrestling shoes on, which is kind of a bitch.
He's going to do anything he wants to do.
joe rogan
He's got too much grip.
I wouldn't allow him to have those shoes on.
They'll fucking shoes off, bro.
bryan callen
He's different strong.
Of course he is.
He'll squeeze you until you poo.
joe rogan
Well, Dustin is a real black belt in jiu-jitsu.
I'm sure he could defend himself if the guy didn't know what he was doing.
But all you'd have to do is teach him what to do.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
See, if you just put him through a John Donaher six-month course, he'd be assassinating people.
bryan callen
Yeah.
You know what we're doing on Fire and the Kid, right?
joe rogan
What are you doing on Fire and the Kid?
bryan callen
We're gonna have Bradley Martin.
joe rogan
Brandon Sharp get more brain damage?
bryan callen
Well, I have to talk him into that.
There's a number.
joe rogan
You're not talking him into that.
bryan callen
We're talking!
joe rogan
What the fuck is wrong with you?
bryan callen
There might be a check.
I might be his manager.
joe rogan
One of the most traumatic moments in the history of us doing podcasts together is convincing him to stop fighting.
bryan callen
I know.
And I'm pulling him back in.
Why?
Hey, if there's a number on the check...
joe rogan
You're like the fucking Colonel in the Elvis movie.
bryan callen
I am.
I'm a bad guy.
joe rogan
Piece of shit.
bryan callen
But how about this?
Mighty Mouse, Bradley Martin...
joe rogan
You got a gambling problem or something?
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
Yes, I'm putting all my money on Derrick Lewis.
And so is Brennan.
And so is Brennan.
joe rogan
Bro, I would too.
I would too.
I can't bet on the UFC, but I'll bet on that.
Sorry, Brennan.
bryan callen
No, Brennan, he's not going to do it until I got to push him a little more.
joe rogan
They're talking about, Derrick is a free agent now, and they're talking about maybe Derrick going over to the PFL and getting $2 million to fight Francis.
bryan callen
Well, you know who's going to be bare-knuckling?
Do you know Jorge Masvidal on September 8th, who's fighting?
Do you know about this?
joe rogan
On his event, right?
bryan callen
Yeah.
Fabricio Verdum versus Junior Dos Santos.
unidentified
Yes.
That's bare-knuckle, but it's MMA. Bro, Fabricio Verdum is in sick shape.
bryan callen
Oh, it's crazy.
joe rogan
Fabricio Verdum, something happened to him, like, I don't know how long ago it was, but he just got super fucking dedicated to training.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And all of a sudden, now he's got a six-pack.
He looks shredded.
Fabricio Verdum, people forget that he is in the argument for one of the greatest heavyweights of all time.
He's in the argument as the number one guy because he tapped all the greats.
He tapped...
bryan callen
Cain Velasquez.
joe rogan
Cain Velasquez.
He tapped Fedor Emelianenko.
He tapped Minotauro.
Bro, he tapped everybody.
Fabricio Verdum, in my opinion, you have to consider him in the list of all the greats.
Knocked out Mark Hunt with a flying knee.
Fabricio Verdum is the fucking man.
bryan callen
Travis Brown?
joe rogan
Yeah, listen man, guys beat him and Stipe knocked him out, but he's a warrior.
He fought everybody, and he beat the best guys in their prime.
When he tapped Fedor, it was wild.
Nobody could beat Fedor.
Fedor was unstoppable.
And when Fabrizio Verdum locked him up in a triangle and you see Fedor tap, you're like, holy shit.
People forget.
It was just like when Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson.
Like, it couldn't be done.
Fabricio catches him in a triangle.
Fabricio was so dangerous because his guard was just as lethal as his top game.
A lot of times those big guys, with the exception of Frank Mir, who also had a super, super lethal guard as a heavyweight, most of those really big guys, they're always on top in the training room, right?
They're 250, 260, they're just driving on top of you and they're getting mount and, you know, they use that strength and that pressure for their game.
But Fabrizio Verdum is smart.
And so what he realized is, look, he's already a big giant dude.
If he develops a lethal fucking guard, then it doesn't matter where he is.
So he put as much emphasis into the guard as every other aspect of his game.
So his guard was just fucking nasty against world-class heavyweights in an MMA fight.
To lock up a triangle like that on Fedor Emelianenko in his prime?
Amazing!
bryan callen
I know, it's so insane.
joe rogan
Dude, Fabricio Verdum is the fucking man.
When you watch his jiu-jitsu, like, when he gets on top of guys, they're fucked, man.
bryan callen
Well, I think it was just his, he was a craft, like, the craft, like, he was a technician, too.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, man.
bryan callen
To be that big, but also technical.
joe rogan
World champion in jiu-jitsu.
World, top of the food chain, like, jiu-jitsu, but with an MMA warrior.
A guy who could knock you out, too.
Just a competitor, just a, you Yeah, so like, I don't know how that fight plays out.
Junior Dos Santos obviously is an elite striker too.
You know, long in the tooth.
He's been in the game for a long time.
He's had some real wars.
bryan callen
Yeah, but he's in shape.
joe rogan
The Stipe fights, the Cain Velasquez fights.
No matter what you do, those take something out of you.
bryan callen
He's in crazy shape right now.
I'm sure.
joe rogan
Well, these guys, you know, I love the fact that there's other organizations that are giving these guys a chance.
And honestly, I'm a fan of the idea, at least the idea of bare-knuckle MMA. You've always said that.
Yes.
unidentified
Why?
joe rogan
Because I think there's something very unrealistic about just opening up and punching people with your knuckles.
You could break your hands.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it's also defense-wise when you have especially boxing gloves.
Boxing gloves give you this very distorted area of protection that you do not have when it's just your hands.
Things sneak through.
bryan callen
You gotta be literally like that.
joe rogan
Well, Mike Perry talked about it.
He's the most successful MMA fighter to make the conversion to bare knuckle boxing.
And I think he's uniquely suited for it because he's such a dog.
Such a mad dog.
bryan callen
And Luke Rockhold's a monster, but that check hook wasn't working.
Mike just plowed ahead and just said, you're going to break your hand.
I'm going to lead with this part of my head, and I'm going to swing.
And it's hard to deal with that, man, when you're dealing with gloves.
joe rogan
You can't roll the same Also, Mike has got some real experience in those fights.
He's been doing it for a while now.
He's all in on bare knuckle boxing.
He knows strategies.
He knows to punch differently.
You've got to think that was Luke Rockhold's first bare knuckle boxing fight.
You don't really get to train hard bare knuckle boxing.
You can't really spar bare knuckle boxing.
You'll cut your face up.
bryan callen
It's a different thing.
joe rogan
It's a different game.
Every time you're in there, I would imagine at least, every time you're in there, it's a unique experience that adds to your repertoire of understanding what this thing is and how this is different than gloved MMA or boxing.
It's just different.
And Mike excels in that.
That is where his skill set and his toughness and his fucking grit just dominates.
He dominates people.
bryan callen
It's almost a mindset.
It's a type of person that can do that.
He's an animal.
joe rogan
Dude's a legit, 100%, no-faking-it, all animal.
b-real
He's not pretending to be an animal.
joe rogan
That is who that guy is.
And when he fights in the bare-knuckle boxing ring, he's uniquely qualified to fuck people up in that sport.
bryan callen
So let me ask you, you know fighting.
Bradley Martin on the podcast said he could beat Mighty Mouse, but he doesn't know Mighty Mouse.
Mighty Mouse said, I'm going on vacation, but when I get back, I'm down.
They're not going to have an MMA fight, they're going to have a jiu-jitsu match.
joe rogan
Bradley Martin has no chance.
bryan callen
He has no chance.
joe rogan
Is there a time limit?
bryan callen
There is not a time limit, sir.
joe rogan
Then he has no chance.
bryan callen
Is that right?
joe rogan
Zero chance.
bryan callen
He's gonna get his back taken.
joe rogan
Oh, he's 100% gonna get choked out.
It's just gonna take time.
bryan callen
Yeah, we're gonna lay some mats up.
joe rogan
Bradley is enormous.
And Bradley is so fucking strong.
bryan callen
He's an athlete, too.
joe rogan
He's an athlete, yes.
No, he's a fucking specimen.
He's a specimen.
Now, If this was in a street fight, the thing about Bradley is he can hit you with the earth.
You know what I'm saying?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, he can literally pick you up and you're gonna hit the earth with, what does he weigh?
270?
bryan callen
280?
joe rogan
What does he weigh?
bryan callen
He's 265, but like, his hands, when you grab his hands, but his hands are huge.
joe rogan
The amount of force that body can generate, if that guy picks you up, And smashes you into the ground, your body will shatter.
Your body will shatter.
If you're a human being, if somehow or another Mighty Mouse fucks up and that guy can pick him up and slam him into the ground, I don't know how much Mighty Mouse is going to be able to physically do to mitigate that.
If that guy knows how to pick people up, if he has any wrestling at all, he's so big.
And Mighty Mouse is, you know, he probably walks around at $1.50 or $1.45 and he cuts down to $1.25.
He's so good.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
But if they just, no slamming, if they just do a jiu-jitsu match...
Mighty Mouse is going to get him.
He's going to get tired.
bryan callen
He's going to get him, yeah.
joe rogan
He's going to get tired.
He's not going to know the positions.
He's going to get trapped.
bryan callen
That's what Jiu-Jitsu is.
That's what grappling is on that level.
joe rogan
It will be wild to see.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because he's so much smaller.
bryan callen
We're going to try to do it in the studio.
We're going to have some mats laid out.
joe rogan
There's some old videos of Pedro Sauer.
Pedro Sauer is a legendary MMA black belt.
Had a match with a bodybuilder.
And Pedro Sauer...
He's not a big guy.
I want to say he's maybe...
I don't want to disrespect him, but I want to say he's in the like 160 range, 170 maybe at the most.
And this guy is this big fucking bodybuilder.
And they had like a no-rules fight in the gym.
And this guy just thought he was gonna fuck him up.
And Pedro Sauer just kept kicking his legs and kicking his legs.
And this dude's like swinging punches and he cracks him with a punch.
Look at the size of this guy.
But eventually he gets the dude down.
bryan callen
Yeah, that guy is not a fighter at all.
joe rogan
But look how skinny Pedro is.
He's not a big guy.
bryan callen
But that's not surprising to me.
I mean, if you do any boxing, a guy like that isn't...
You never see a boxer or a fighter, like, who's that muscle?
joe rogan
But what all Pedro's trying to do is open him up for the takedown.
This is what he wants.
So the dude gets on top of him.
Beautiful butterfly sweep.
I mean, the way he did that, he executed it.
And look at the guy who rolled him over, though.
That's how strong this fucking dude is.
bryan callen
He'll get tired.
joe rogan
Exactly.
But this is not as big a size and strength disparity as Mighty Mouse and Bradley Martin.
Bradley Martin is so much bigger than Mighty Mouse.
This guy was bigger and stronger for sure, but, you know, Pedro Sauer's not a small guy.
bryan callen
No.
unidentified
Got all the blood and shit already.
joe rogan
Yeah, he catches his arm here.
bryan callen
There you go.
joe rogan
Oh, wrestling shoes on, too.
Oh, that's a problem.
Imagine he talked the bodybuilder into no wrestling shoes.
Isn't that amazing?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, why would that guy fight barefoot?
And then he got him in the belly down.
bryan callen
That's a deep arm.
joe rogan
Those are horrible.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Just tap.
joe rogan
I've seen so many people get their arms broken.
bryan callen
Fuck that.
joe rogan
Do you know the one that freaks me out the most is the Kimura?
Because it's that spiral fracture of the upper arm.
And I'm always like, please, please fucking tap.
Please tap.
Please tap.
Please fucking tap.
bryan callen
That's how I am now when people get punched in the face too much.
I don't like it.
joe rogan
Meanwhile, you're trying to get Brendan Schaub to go fight MMA bare knuckle against Derrick Lewis.
bryan callen
There's a number on a check, I'm just saying.
joe rogan
Derrick Lewis will make you forget your childhood.
bryan callen
He will.
For a while.
joe rogan
You won't remember anything below like 10th grade.
unidentified
Then you're rich!
bryan callen
Then you're rich!
joe rogan
No, no, no, no, no.
We gotta protect our boy's brain.
bryan callen
I texted Brendan this morning.
I go, how's training going?
Work on your defense.
He goes, fuck you.
joe rogan
I hope he's too smart to do that.
I don't care how much money they throw at you.
You don't want Derek Lewis.
That giant flying knee that he landed to start out the fight.
He goes, I was practicing that bullshit for five years.
I was ready to quit on it.
bryan callen
Is that what he said?
joe rogan
Yes!
unidentified
He took his fucking pants off in the octagon, he ran around, he did the X across his dick.
bryan callen
Remember when he said to his wife, I'm coming home, I'm going deep tonight.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's an animal.
bryan callen
He's got a great sense of humor.
joe rogan
His fucking Instagram is the most funny Instagram.
bryan callen
He took it down.
joe rogan
No.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
When?
bryan callen
I don't know.
It's not up anymore, right?
joe rogan
The Beast UFC? Check.
I hope they put it back up.
Zuck, come on, buddy.
bryan callen
Maybe it's back up.
I don't know.
joe rogan
Put it back up.
So he'll have people just getting hit by trucks and shit.
It's like, he's okay.
bryan callen
They said he got a strike or something for that shit.
joe rogan
Well, he's wild.
He put up everything.
Gunshots, animal attacks.
It's like the Derek Lewis Instagram was one of my first places I go to in the morning.
bryan callen
Different dudes.
joe rogan
While I'm taking a shit, I'm like, what does Derek find?
bryan callen
It's almost like you have to be a fighter.
joe rogan
Oh, it's still up.
bryan callen
Athletes and fighters.
joe rogan
It's still up.
bryan callen
Okay.
Athletes and fighters, like, he's...
joe rogan
Oh, watch this guy.
bryan callen
Boom!
joe rogan
That is not good.
That guy's paralyzed.
That's, those fucking dudes, man, nobody beats their body up more than pro wrestlers.
You think MMA fighters beat their body up?
Every pro wrestler that I come, that I talk to that's been in here.
Ric Flair...
bryan callen
Yeah, Kurt Angle, gold medalist in the Olympics, said, I got more injuries by far doing pro wrestling than I did wrestling.
Broke his neck.
joe rogan
For sure.
bryan callen
Broke his neck.
joe rogan
I think he had a broken neck when he was in the Olympics, bro.
bryan callen
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah, I think that's the legend of Kurt Angle, that he won the Olympics with a broken neck.
God.
bryan callen
A gold medal.
I don't think there's anything harder.
joe rogan
No.
There's no harder men.
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
Yeah, look at this.
In the Olympic trials, he suffered a severe neck injury, fracturing two of his cervical vertebrae, herniating two discs, and pulling four muscles.
Nonetheless, Angle won the trials, and then spent the subsequent five months resting and rehabilitating.
bryan callen
Are you kidding me?
joe rogan
Dude.
bryan callen
Think about that.
joe rogan
96 Olympic trials suffers a fucking severe neck injury.
bryan callen
Look at his neck.
joe rogan
And then went on to win the Olympics.
Yeah.
I mean, his neck is fucking insane.
Imagine something can break that neck.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Look at the size of that.
That's a waste.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
His neck is a waste.
It's so big.
bryan callen
You know, the more you work out, though, how are your injuries?
How do you feel?
Like, what is...
joe rogan
I always have something wrong.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
There's nothing you can do about that.
bryan callen
But the way you work out now, like I work out, I still work out with Lou Parada, the greatest, one of my favorite people on the planet, a 66-year-old guy, a strong man, been working out his whole life.
We work out maybe 20, 25 minutes.
It's a motherfucker.
It's a motherfucker.
But the way he confuses my nervous system and stuff like that, I always feel good and energized.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
Some days will be strength, other days will be what he calls hygiene.
joe rogan
Hygiene?
bryan callen
Yeah, like we'll do, it'll always be something like a full body movement, right?
So whether it's weighted lunges or, you know...
Pull-ups, you know, I'll deadlift and stuff like that, but a lot of times it's not heavy weight.
It's not a heavy day.
It's just me going low, stretching it out, pulling it up, and I always feel more flexible and strong.
I never feel injured.
I can do anything.
I was in Jordan, and this is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever done, but I was like, I'm done with this.
I'm done with being on a fucking tour, and there was this Bedouin guy with an Arabian horse.
I was in Petra, And I don't know what got into me, man.
I just was like, how much for you just to take me on that horse?
I want to get on the horse and I want to just ride.
Now, I haven't ridden in 20 fucking years.
And I almost died because I had no business being on it.
You know how in the movies where you get on the horse and my sister's like, what are you doing?
And I'm trying to turn it and the horse is doing this and it just takes off.
It was that.
It was like that comedic.
joe rogan
So, you were controlling the horse?
bryan callen
No, the horse was riding me.
joe rogan
Okay, but it was just you and the horse, not the guy and you.
bryan callen
No, the guy's behind me and we're galloping and stuff like that.
I just didn't have the balance.
I hadn't ridden in too long.
I just didn't have the balance.
I'm on a fucking horse.
I don't know.
joe rogan
And your estrogen's high.
bryan callen
And my estrogen.
No, dude.
I'd stopped doing- You were weeping.
No, bro.
I stopped doing my propitia, bro.
joe rogan
You were weeping when you saw the horse.
bryan callen
I was dead behind the eyes.
joe rogan
Okay.
bryan callen
And I was sore for a week after that, because I was trying not to die, because we rode for about an hour.
But the point I'm making is that I can do things like that, and I'm okay without injuring myself.
I can kind of do whatever it is, whether it's sand volleyball, whether it's fucking tennis, whether it's box.
I was in Philly, and I was with Julian J. Rock Williams.
I went to this awesome gym, and I boxed for a while.
That was really fun.
My boy, Coach Anthony, was holding mitts.
You know, you can really push yourself, and I'm okay.
I'm okay.
I think if you train a certain way, you're not going to be injured.
And as you get older, I don't want my body to be in the way.
joe rogan
Yeah, weightlifting is very important as you get older.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
It's very important to keep your muscle mass, keep your strength.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
It's like there's a direct correlation between longevity and muscle mass.
And there's also, from preventing injuries, from a preventing injury standpoint, just being more resilient if you fall, things along those lines.
You really want to be strong.
And it's not even just for a vanity thing.
It's just you want to be strong because it's more valuable than being weak.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
There's no value in being weak.
bryan callen
But do you lift heavy weights all the time?
joe rogan
The heaviest weight I lift is 70 pounds.
bryan callen
Okay, there you go.
That's the same thing.
joe rogan
I do these kettlebell routines where they're really brutal, and I do them with long breaks in between them.
I do that Pavel Totsiline method.
So what I do is, it depends on the day, like some days I'll do a bodyweight routine, which is much more cardiovascular intense.
But when I do the kettlebell routine, I warm up with 35s, and then I do a couple of sets with 50s, where I'm just basically doing like 10 reps, getting things going, and then I switch to 70s.
And the 70s is when I'm doing my heavy shit.
That's what I'm doing like gorilla cleans, where you're like switching arms.
That's why I'm doing clean press and squats.
That's why I'm doing windmills.
That's what I'm doing.
bryan callen
And 70 pounds is not that heavy for you.
joe rogan
No, it's manageable.
It's totally manageable.
bryan callen
But that's as high as you go, and that's important.
joe rogan
But if I'm having two, it's 140 pounds.
bryan callen
It's a lot of weight.
joe rogan
But the most important thing is that everything's working.
My core is working, my back is working, my legs are working, and I'm conditioning my body to be able to manipulate awkward weights.
And do it like with windmills and stuff like that.
So that's what I try to do.
That's like my overall strengthening routine.
I just want to keep my body where it works really good.
And then I max that in on the bodyweight days.
It's push-ups, body weight squats, chin-ups, dips, pull-ups.
bryan callen
That's what he does with me.
That's exactly his philosophy.
He's like, I'm not having you lift heavy weights.
I'll flip a tire and stuff, but he's like, you are at an age where your tendons and your joints, you are going to get injured.
If you try to do that CrossFit stuff where you're lifting heavy weight all the time, something's going to pop.
It just is.
You're going to be tired that day.
Something's going to be off.
You're not going to be focused enough.
Boom.
unidentified
Boom.
joe rogan
And I don't do anything to failure.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And that's also what I learned from Pavel Tatsulin.
He's like, if you can do like 10 reps to failure, do five.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
And then wait a long time and then do another five.
bryan callen
Why?
joe rogan
Because you're getting the same amount of work in, but you're not breaking down your tissue in the same way.
And he thinks it'll help you recover quicker and it'll condition your body to be able to do this more often.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Lou calls it stimulate, don't annihilate.
Right?
So he always...
You know, you're talking about a guy...
What I love about working out with a guy like this guy is he's been at it for...
He's 66. He's trained everybody, you know?
And he's done it all.
He was a bodybuilder, a powerlifter, and he just has seen people come and go.
He's seen all the injuries.
Like Dorian Yates.
Guys like that, they just know.
They just know a lot.
They've seen what an overabundance of steroids do.
They've seen what this does.
They've seen what that does.
So it's all about, you know...
It's body maintenance.
It's body maintenance.
joe rogan
Longevity.
bryan callen
Stimulate, stimulate, stimulate.
We figured out a lot of stuff so far on this podcast, guys.
joe rogan
Yeah, you just gotta be careful not to hurt yourself.
Whenever I see guys doing heavy benching and stuff, I'm like, yikes, buddy.
unidentified
Fuck.
bryan callen
Well, jujitsu, too, right?
That's a good way to go.
joe rogan
Yeah, but you can do jujitsu with good partners.
Yeah.
And, you know, you guys can both...
unidentified
Drill.
joe rogan
You go, like, level seven or level eight.
You know, you're not fucking spazzing out.
bryan callen
You still rolling?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
You are?
joe rogan
I haven't in a while, but I'm doing it again.
I was just waiting for my knee to get better.
bryan callen
Have you ever rolled with Mr. Ryan?
joe rogan
No, I have not.
That seems like it would be not much fun.
bryan callen
Yeah.
He's much bigger than I ever thought.
joe rogan
Yeah, I was rolling with Gabe Tuttle, who's the head instructor at 10th Planet.
We did it for a while.
Then I fucked my knee up, and I realized, like, I keep fucking it up.
So I stopped kicking.
I haven't kicked a bag in forever.
And I got a bunch of stem cell injections, and I did all those knees over toes things.
And I was just concerned with, this seems like it's continuing to deteriorate.
And I think, like, if I continue with the same activities, it's going to continue to deteriorate to a point where I can't fix it.
You know, and I'm like, okay, I know how this goes.
I've seen other people do it.
I'm gonna do a very hard thing, which is to hit the brakes on something I fucking love to do.
I love martial arts training.
It's the most fun, but I realized like I really can't do that right now.
I could still punch the bag, but I'm like for a long time.
So like for like a fucking year, I barely kicked the bag.
Like I would every now and then walk up to and tap it a little bit, but Now it finally doesn't hurt anymore.
And after all the stem cell treatments and all the strength and conditioning routines that I put it through, now it just occasionally gets sore, but it's nothing like what it used to be before.
bryan callen
What's the issue?
joe rogan
Oh, I have two reconstructed knees, and the left one I had some meniscus removed, and recently, like about two years ago, I suffered an MCL tear.
And I didn't know it was an MCL tear.
I thought it was just...
You know, just tweaked or whatever, and then finally I got it looked at.
And so I got a bunch of stem cells on that, and that's when I stopped kicking.
And I went and just did, like, very regularly, did the knee-over-toe stuff.
The pulling the sleds backwards, the step-downs.
bryan callen
You know what's funny about you talking this way?
It's like, as you get older, you get more delicate.
You calcify, and you gotta warm up better, and you just get...
joe rogan
You know how I hurt my knee?
How?
bryan callen
I know exactly how.
joe rogan
How?
bryan callen
You were kicking.
joe rogan
No.
bryan callen
Oh, I thought you were trying to do that then.
joe rogan
No, that was my other knee.
bryan callen
With Joe Schilling?
joe rogan
Yeah, that was my other knee.
That knee's fine now.
Yeah, I tore my meniscus.
bryan callen
I'm watching you do that going, fucking, if I had been there, I'd been like, it's like Schaub trying to race fucking Chappelle in a race without warming up.
I go, you're going to fucking blow your hamstring.
He blew both of them.
joe rogan
Yeah, I had jeans on, and I was 53 with no warm-up.
And Joe Schilling challenged me to a kicking contest.
I'm like, okay.
bryan callen
I saw it.
Yep.
Kicking hard.
You kicked too hard.
joe rogan
Yeah, so I did tweak my knee in that.
But that was fairly minor.
That was just annoying.
But I got a bunch of stem cells and fixed that, too.
That doesn't bother me at all.
My right knee doesn't bother me at all anymore.
But my left knee, there is a piece of meniscus missing.
So this is what happened.
I was walking on stage at Stubbs.
I was doing these shows with Chappelle.
And this is during the pandemic.
So we're backstage and everyone's barbecued.
And the stairs at Stubbs are these concrete stairs and they kind of curve.
And I'm going to turn my recorder on on my phone and I stub my toe on one of the steps and twist my knee sideways.
Bad.
Like in fucking pain.
bryan callen
Before the show?
joe rogan
While they're bringing me up.
bryan callen
No!
joe rogan
So they bring me up on stage and my knee is killing me and my leg is shaking like I'm nervous.
unidentified
Oh no!
No.
joe rogan
Like, my left leg is shaking.
bryan callen
And you're in front of, I don't know how many thousand, 12,000 people or something.
joe rogan
No, no, no.
It wasn't that many people.
It was like 500 or something like that.
600 people.
Oh, fuck, dude.
bryan callen
It's actually worse because they can see your knee.
joe rogan
Well, they definitely could see my knee was shaking.
But the set went great.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, no one could tell by the material.
bryan callen
I did the material the right way.
joe rogan
Yeah, when you do a stand-up fuck office, Everybody was so enthusiastic.
We were having so much fun, but I fucked it up so bad doing that, and then I started training Muay Thai right away.
I didn't stop.
I shot some BPC-157 into it.
I waited a few days and started feeling better.
I'm like, I'll just wear some knee sleeves and train.
bryan callen
Good idea.
Pro science.
Shoot the shit in my knee.
joe rogan
Muay Thai in the mornings.
I fucking loved it.
I do Muay Thai and then come here straight from there.
Just crack pads and have a good time.
It just wouldn't get better.
It's also the same knee I fucked up skiing.
I wiped out skiing.
I got a concussion and I suffered what's called...
unidentified
You did?
bryan callen
You wiped out skiing?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I got something that's called an insufficiency fracture.
It's when your knees smash together because you don't have meniscus there and it cracked the top of my shin.
bryan callen
Ah, fuck, dude.
joe rogan
Yeah, it was very annoying.
That was my last skiing.
Because I was going around this corner and this lady was new.
She didn't know what to do.
And she was just sliding in the middle of the trail.
She just couldn't stop herself.
And it was either take her out or fall.
And I fell hard.
I banged the back of my head off the ground.
And the rest of the day I was just...
bryan callen
I got hit by a snowboarder, a young lady.
She knocked me.
I got just wiped.
And all she did was look back...
And I saw her down in the line and I put my head down.
joe rogan
You didn't say anything?
bryan callen
No, I was embarrassed.
I was like, I'm an old man.
She was like a really good young girl.
joe rogan
She was hot and you got nervous.
bryan callen
I know.
She was too young.
She was like a fucking 18-year-old.
joe rogan
She just looked at you like an old man.
bryan callen
You were embarrassed of being old.
Exactly.
I'm like, I shouldn't be on there myself.
joe rogan
Yeah, but she just plowed into you and Gwyneth Paltrowed you.
bryan callen
I deserved it, bro.
joe rogan
Gwyneth Paltrow won that case, right?
bryan callen
Yeah, she did.
joe rogan
That guy seemed like he was full of shit.
bryan callen
Yeah, he's a fucking...
Yes.
He's completely full of shit.
joe rogan
That seemed a little opportunistic.
bryan callen
Yeah, dude.
joe rogan
Weren't they saying that he hit her, though?
bryan callen
Yes.
Yes.
It was embarrassing.
He had all these ideas and what happened to him.
He couldn't go to dinner.
joe rogan
Oh, so he just thought he was getting paid.
bryan callen
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Isn't that wild?
bryan callen
Even if Gwyneth Paltrow really hurt me, I wouldn't sue her.
joe rogan
Isn't that funny that people would do that where they just wanted to go away?
bryan callen
Shortcut.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
You're a shortcut taker.
joe rogan
Yeah, you know, I don't think I'm going to be okay.
And my lawyer is saying that really we need to do something about this.
Significant.
bryan callen
Yeah, okay.
Really significant.
You go ahead and do that.
People who do that, I love the greatest quote I ever heard Jordan Peterson say was, in my 35 years of analysis, I've never seen anyone get away with anything ever even once.
I fucking love that.
Amen!
Get that tattooed to your fucking...
He said, you can twist the fabric of reality for a while, but you ain't getting it.
The piper must be paid, and the truth will get you.
So you can go ahead and do all those things.
You can fuck people over.
You can lie.
You can do that.
But I'll see you over there.
I'll be at the bottom of the river while the bodies float by.
joe rogan
You just keep doing that.
Ooh, that's a great quote, isn't it?
bryan callen
That's Sam Tripoli.
One of my favorite people on the planet.
joe rogan
The great Sam Tripoli.
unidentified
Who is that?
joe rogan
Is that Sun Tzu?
bryan callen
I don't know, but Sam Tripoli is the one who says, you just gotta wait at the mouth of the river and let all the bodies float by.
joe rogan
Yeah, live long enough to see the bodies of your enemy drift by you in the river or something like that.
Something like that.
I believe it's The Art of War.
bryan callen
I like that.
I like Confucius' notion on revenge.
Before you seek revenge, remember to dig two graves.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
It's great.
joe rogan
That's great.
bryan callen
Those wise things.
That's actually a really interesting idea.
joe rogan
Especially back to when there's no doctors.
bryan callen
Well, yeah.
Yeah.
That's always...
Bro.
When they would leech you...
joe rogan
Here it is.
It's Sun Tzu.
Yeah, Art of War.
bryan callen
If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will flow by.
Damn.
Damn, dude.
joe rogan
I like that.
unidentified
I like that.
Yeah.
I think about that when I watch CNN. You won that one, buddy.
bryan callen
You won that one.
joe rogan
The bodies of your enemies.
bryan callen
You won that one.
joe rogan
It's um, it's an amazing thing how as you Grow older and you have more life experiences your perspective kind of like Titans and moves and you as you get older and as you see the world with more and more experience you get a better and clearer picture and it makes you wonder and How limited were humans when they only lived to be like 30?
How much did people really have a chance to expand and figure things out?
bryan callen
I don't know because a lot of great things were discovered or created probably then too.
For sure.
I think when you're very aware of how finite your life is, and when you're very aware that you are a victim to forces that are so much stronger than yourself, whether it's disease, first of all, losing a child.
Right.
I mean, that was a reality, a common death.
joe rogan
It's like 50%.
bryan callen
Lincoln lost, I think, four of his children.
Mary Todd ended up in a mentalist institution because she lost four of her children, two diseases, they don't even know what they were, a fever, probably diphtheria or whatever it was.
They would just roll through towns and it didn't matter who you were.
joe rogan
Poor hygiene, no nutrition.
bryan callen
All that.
joe rogan
People just died.
bryan callen
They didn't know what it was.
People would die of, what is it called, malagra or whatever?
joe rogan
Insumption.
bryan callen
Oh, yeah.
I mean, that was everybody.
But I think that sometimes when you're aware that there is a clock, and that clock might ding at any moment.
In Japan, when you get sentenced to death, they don't tell you what the date is.
You just sit in your cell and they show up when it's your turn.
It's an interesting idea because there's something about focusing your mind.
This might be your last day, and it might be for everyone.
Things have a different gravity to them.
And I think that that's where you get, you know, amazing...
I don't know if I'm right about this, but I do think that there is something to be said about having very limited time, even living with pain.
You'll create some shit.
You'll create some shit.
joe rogan
Well, also, that was the only reality available.
There was no notion of, you know, I just need to get back to civilization.
There was no, I need to get to the city and everything's going to be back to normal again.
I'll go to New York and ride the subway.
bryan callen
Correct.
joe rogan
This doesn't exist.
Yeah, you didn't have the protection.
So the only reality that exists is this unbelievably difficult world of murder and violence.
bryan callen
Yeah, but it does something else too.
joe rogan
Hey, I gotta pee.
bryan callen
You do?
joe rogan
Yeah, let's come back.
bryan callen
You do?
joe rogan
I do, I do.
Yeah.
bryan callen
We'll come back.
joe rogan
We'll come back.
bryan callen
I gotta pee.
I'll secure your hips.
joe rogan
Oh, don't do it.
bryan callen
But here's my thought on what you were saying.
Here's my thought on the idea of when life was kind of brutish and short and all that.
I think it's actually, in a way, it's not an accident that some of the greatest literature was written, like Dostoevsky, who was...
Living in that rudimentary world and you have these great works of art.
I think part of it is what happens is if you are basically, you don't know when you're going to die because the universe is that much of a mystery.
I don't know when a disease is coming.
I don't know when invaders are coming and they're going to enslave me.
I don't know when all that stuff.
There's something about creating art under those circumstances.
Your mindset, you are already humbled.
It is not about you.
It'd be really weird to build a huge chapel and then put your name on it.
You didn't see great architecture, great buildings that were built, and then the architect was heralded.
joe rogan
Have you never been to Trump Tower, bitch?
bryan callen
That's very different, my friend.
That's very different.
joe rogan
Giant gold Trump.
bryan callen
Yes.
You wouldn't see that as much.
You see kings that did that.
But the artist didn't do that.
Trump.
You know, apparently he doesn't own a lot of those buildings.
joe rogan
Shut the fuck up.
What are you, a communist?
bryan callen
I'm just saying he leases, he puts his name on there, which is great.
He's so entertaining.
joe rogan
He's hilarious.
bryan callen
But we're never going to have...
joe rogan
You see what he tweeted?
Or truth socialed, rather?
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
And he was like celebrating the indictment.
He's like, one more indictment and then I'm going to shoo in for the White House.
bryan callen
I know.
That's three indictments, dude.
joe rogan
He's got Teflon.
bryan callen
Well...
joe rogan
If he wins this, though.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
If he wins his case.
Well, if he wins this case...
I don't think he can pardon himself.
bryan callen
No, the only case he's going to have real trouble with.
I think the other, the Bragg, Alvin Bragg case in, I think it's New York, is a bullshit case where it's this obscure thing.
You got these prosecutors that are looking, they're being very, very creative with the law, right?
Typically with laws, it's called meat and potatoes laws.
You're supposed to, when somebody breaks a law and there's a law that's passed, it's supposed to be something that somebody who doesn't have a law degree can understand.
And if you look at Jack Smith, who's the prosecutor in this January 6th thing, What he's being charged with, I think, is a form of fraud defrauding the American voter, which is saying, I won the election when he knows he lost, but he never ever admitted that he lost.
They can't find anybody who said that.
So there's all this gray area.
But the one issue he's going to have is the mishandling of classified documents, because they have them on tape saying, I know this is classified and Then I think he has a guy – they have him talking to one of his staff saying, get rid of this.
That's going to be a tough one for him.
joe rogan
But I think the other two indictments are – What are the punishments of mishandling classified documents?
bryan callen
There are people right now who are in jail for doing that.
Right now.
And in fact, some of them I think worked for his campaign at that point.
joe rogan
What is the difference between the accusations against Joe Biden, where he was mishandling documents, and the accusations against Trump?
bryan callen
So anytime a president is, presidents are allowed to have documents in their possession when they are working on their memoirs, etc.
Now, the Justice Department and the affiliated...
Agencies, as far as I understand it, then look at what you have.
And then they send you a notice and say, by the way, you have these documents that are in your possession.
X, Y and Z are classified.
You have to return them.
They give you a grace period in which to return those documents.
So with Biden and with a lot of other presidents, that's what happens.
They say you're in possession of classified documents.
You have this window to return them.
And then you return them.
And Biden did.
With Trump, he didn't.
There are a number of things that he just didn't return.
joe rogan
But I thought Biden had classified documents that his aides found.
bryan callen
Yeah, he did.
They all do.
They all do.
joe rogan
But wasn't that from 2014, from when he was vice president?
bryan callen
Yes, but the issue is not that he had those classified documents.
joe rogan
Is that he didn't turn them over when they were requested?
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
I see.
bryan callen
And there's a fundamental difference there.
Now, if you then are, I think he said, I could have declassified this, but I didn't.
Something like that.
When Trump said that, because at that point he was a private American citizen.
And that's where the problem lies.
joe rogan
How these recordings, how were they obtained?
bryan callen
I think they're all a matter of record.
I think that in discovery...
joe rogan
Well, how did someone record him?
bryan callen
I think his lawyers had to...
Well, a lot of what a president does when you're doing your memoirs and stuff, I think, is they record you.
So you're recording a lot of things you're saying and things like that.
joe rogan
He was having a conversation with someone where he was showing them the documents.
That was recorded somehow?
bryan callen
Yeah, somehow they have him on tape saying that.
joe rogan
So was it surreptitiously recorded?
bryan callen
I don't know and I didn't get that from what I followed.
I think that was just something that happened to be part of the body of evidence and discovery.
joe rogan
What I heard as an argument against that was that he was being braggadocious.
bryan callen
They're going to use whatever they can.
And there's a chance he might get off on all of these things.
And there's no doubt that these indictments have made him stronger with his base.
The real question is, see, you're never going to get people who say, well, Biden is really old and we don't have an answer.
Don't complain.
If you're not going to vote in primaries, we're always going to have the candidates that the most extreme elements of each party nominates.
If you want DeSantis or you want someone else, you better vote in the primary.
If you don't vote in the primary, nobody does, including me, so I'm not scolding anybody.
You're getting the people that the diehard Republicans, diehard Democrats, and the most active members of that party are going to nominate.
That's a fact.
You want to change the political system?
Fucking vote in the primaries.
Andrew Yang, whoever you like, all these guys, that's all great.
That's all adorable.
And the real political operatives just look at you and go, that's cute.
We'll see it.
joe rogan
What a wild system.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Vote in the primary.
joe rogan
A wild two-party system.
bryan callen
Yes.
Now, the only thing that, like, if DeSantis crushes in, first of all, I think he should go back to being governor for four more years, but if he wins, like, the first two states, like New Hampshire and Iowa, and gets a lot of press for that, there's a chance that there can be some, you know, but I don't think so otherwise.
joe rogan
I think the Trumpers are all in.
The audio recording comes from a July 2021 interview Trump gave at his Bedminster Resort for people working on the memoir of Mark Meadows, Trump's former chief of staff.
Special Counselor's indictment alleges that those in attendance, a writer, publisher, and two of Trump's staff members, were shown classified information about the plan of attack on Iran.
bryan callen
Yeah.
unidentified
Wow.
bryan callen
But here's what bothers me a little bit about all this.
joe rogan
Hold on a second.
Let me see what Trump says here.
He says, there was no document that was a massive amount of papers and everything else talking about Iran and other things, Trump said on Fox.
And it may have been held up or may not, but that was not a document.
I didn't have a document per se.
There was nothing to declassify.
These were newspaper stories, magazine stories, and articles.
Okay.
Well, if that's true, that's a completely different thing.
Then that sounds like they're saying that he showed them classified documents and he's saying I showed them a massive amount of papers and I didn't show them anything specifically.
And saying that there was nothing to declassify.
If he's telling the truth, these were newspaper stories, magazines, stories, and articles.
If that's true...
bryan callen
You're going to have to...
His lawyers are going to argue all that?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
This is political as much as it is legal?
joe rogan
Well, that's what scares me, that people are behind this idea that you're going to arrest your political rival.
bryan callen
That's the biggest...
Not only that, but you have prosecutors that are getting real creative with the law.
And I don't think we want a system like that.
And I don't think we want...
Every time somebody runs for office, because now the Bidens are in trouble.
I mean, Hunter Biden's in real trouble here.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
And there is, this guy, Devin Archer, said that Biden was on the phone on behalf of his son 20 times, uh, And that was Devin Archer, who's also going to jail.
Now, that was Hunter Biden's business partner.
And he said he personally witnessed that.
And he said that under sworn testimony.
There is enough evidence to at least investigate the idea that maybe Biden took a $5 million bribe, whatever the case.
But my point about this is the mainstream media, legacy media, gives that almost no attention.
And all you have...
I think that the legacy of Donald Trump will be In some ways, the other side was so hysterical about him being a clear and present danger to the United States—and I'm talking about Republicans, I'm talking about the deep state, I'm talking about Democrats, I'm talking about a lot of people—that they have behaved in an undemocratic Un-American way.
They have bent a lot of rules.
And they're bringing these indictments, three of which now, I think, or four, in a period of six months.
I don't think we want a system like that.
I don't think you want people running for office and then somebody who's on the other side of the aisle gets real creative with their prosecutorial, you know, with bending the law, figuring out the gray areas of the law.
And now you're spending all your money on legal fees.
joe rogan
Especially when there's been...
No answer to what they did with the Russia collusion hoax.
bryan callen
You mean Adam Schiff who's still taken seriously?
joe rogan
They promoted that.
They promoted that in mainstream media.
They promoted that.
Politicians promoted it.
They called him a Russian asset.
bryan callen
Listen, Adam Schiff, he was the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.
Is that what it is?
Adam Schiff knew.
He never saw any evidence Any evidence that Trump was in collusion with the Russians or that the Russians were interfering in American elections or that whatever.
There may have been evidence of that, but there was no evidence that Russia and Trump were in collusion.
And he kept saying it.
He kept saying it.
On every news outlet he could.
That's a fact.
And he knew otherwise.
And no one's held him to task for that.
That was a lie to the American people.
It just was.
And that's what I have a problem with.
joe rogan
And there's been no acknowledgement, like in mainstream media, that that was a hoax and that he was innocent of what they were accusing him of.
bryan callen
None.
None.
joe rogan
That is so wild.
And they go from that to new accusations.
So for the casual, for the person that's not doing a deep dive in all these stories and reading all these articles, what you're getting is the narrative that you see in headlines.
Trump indicted again.
Trump's a criminal.
Trump did this.
Trump incited people to enter the Capitol on January 6th because he said the election was rigged.
bryan callen
And all this trouble that Biden is in now and his son is in was all on Hunter Biden's laptop.
And we were told that there was nothing to see there.
joe rogan
Didn't 50, was it 51 members of intelligence agency signed off on that?
It was Russian disinformation.
bryan callen
There you go.
So what does that do about, my problem with all of this is that it just destroys credibility.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
It destroys people's faith in the institutions.
joe rogan
Which you said earlier, it's perfect.
It's un-American.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
It really is.
I know you're doing it because you think you want to beat this guy by any means necessary, but you're becoming a tyrant.
bryan callen
You're setting up a system that's going to be used against you, too.
joe rogan
A hundred percent.
And it's also setting a precedent of things that we allow.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And no one seems to care because it's Trump.
Because it's Trump, he's like a non-human to them.
Like all the rules of empathy and dignity and the most charitable view of things never apply.
It's like the worst examples of anything that he's ever said or anything he's ever done.
And that's all he is.
Well, you know, I... It's, you know, and if you say, even if you say that, you're a Trump apologist, but, like, you gotta look at what is going on.
There's a massive movement to keep this guy from being president again, and some of it you don't want to see happening in a democratic society.
bryan callen
No.
My worry is that, you know, I really do think legacy media, a lot of these people come from the same colleges, the same area codes.
They do see the world differently than most of us who are out there trying to build a life.
joe rogan
Isn't that wild?
bryan callen
It is wild.
joe rogan
The frequency of the country, but they're so off and they think they're superior because they're very educated and because they're indoctrinated into this progressive ideology and they think that there's a mandate to not just exist and do your thing, but to change the world and mold it into these ideas that you were indoctrinated with.
In school.
bryan callen
Yeah, and there becomes this lateral cooperation with the powers that be.
And so they can very easily highlight one story and suppress another or just not report on another.
And when you walk into a newsroom and you're somebody who's looking to speak truth to power and be part of the way the fourth estate should really work, which used to be that journalists were all blue-collar guys and gals who...
Hit the pavement.
Now you've got people that agree with the idea, for example, that maybe people who are in power with this education know a little bit more than the people that are actually the flyby states.
I can't remember who said it.
It might have been William F. Buckley who said, You have to understand that would you rather be ruled by the Harvard faculty or the first 2,000 names in the Boston phone book?
If you believe in democracy, you've got to say the first 2,000 names in the Boston phone book.
It sounds very enticing to get the Harvard faculty.
They're smart as shit.
They know what's best for all of us.
Let the philosopher kings run it.
But that's not how our grand experiment works.
And I think this is the greatest country in the world because it always pushes the ideal and the idea that the individual should always supersede the collective.
That the collective will always become a tyranny and you as an individual have certain inalienable rights that can't be taken away from you no matter which way the wind blows and no matter how strong the collective is.
That's such an important distinction.
It is the fundamental distinction between being somebody who's for free markets and democracy and somebody who's a socialist.
That's why I think socialism is way more dangerous.
All these young people have a favorable view of socialism.
No, no, no, I'm sorry.
Now you have a top-down authority that believes in orchestrating and socially engineering equality at all costs, which means we've got to keep the people that are really excelling, you've got to keep them down a little bit.
That's why you have congresspeople saying things like, in California, fuck Elon Musk.
They say stuff like that to a guy who creates that many jobs and is that innovative and that much of a risk taker.
That's what I worry about.
joe rogan
I worry that human beings naturally, we have an inclination towards competition and we think about things not just for the greater good of the country, but when you're locked into a party war, you know, it's the Democratic Party versus the Republican Party.
This is a sports game.
And whatever dirty tricks you can use by deflating balls or fuckin' spiking people's Kool-Aid, whatever the fuck you can do to get people to lose or to win, there's gonna be certain elements of your party that are willing to do that.
The problem is when it becomes the intelligence agencies.
The problem is when they're colluding.
They're working in conjunction.
And then also they're contacting social media companies.
bryan callen
I think that some of it is the stuff you've talked about, which is this is new territory.
It's really hard to deal with the amount of misinformation and malinformation and disinformation.
You don't know where it's coming from.
joe rogan
How much of it is coming from us?
Do you think there's any American misinformation troll farms?
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
Do you think the government funds them?
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
Jesus.
bryan callen
I mean, it would make sense.
I don't think it's done with like...
I don't think conspiracy is like...
I think that there are...
Programs and ideas that might be...
You might set up a propaganda ministry quietly to combat something else.
We did that with ISIS. They were very good with their recruiting and stuff like that.
So we said, let's figure out a way to...
To deal with that.
joe rogan
That would be best case scenario.
They do it to combat ISIS. This is new for people.
bryan callen
This is new.
You've got to, you know, there's all this blowback.
You come up with a plan.
This is hard stuff.
There's no group of people who are so smart and they're planning all this shit.
Good luck.
Too many moving parts in life.
joe rogan
No, I don't think that.
But I do think that the people who are in control, whether it be the government, which can contact Facebook, or whether it be the intelligence communities that say that the Hunter Biden laptop's bullshit when they know it's not...
When you have situations where people have that kind of power and control over people, and it's through this digital realm that didn't exist before, so all the rules that you would apply to the First Amendment outside of that, everything gets real slippery.
Like, this is a private corporation, and this is mal-information and misinformation.
Mal-information is the craziest one, which is true information that may be detrimental or something.
unidentified
Oh, is that what it is?
joe rogan
Yeah, what is the actual definition of mal-information?
But it's things that may be true.
Like, they can deem something that is true mal-information.
So you can have misinformation that's not true.
bryan callen
Let me ask you a question.
joe rogan
Here it is.
Mal-information is truth used to inflict harm on a person, organization, or country.
So, fishing, catfishing, well that's, yeah, but also, just that term, truth that could be used to inflict harm?
bryan callen
Yeah.
Well, mal-infranch means bad.
joe rogan
But how open to interpretation is that?
bryan callen
I don't know.
joe rogan
Doxing, swatting, and revenge porn.
unidentified
Oof.
joe rogan
How open-ended is that?
What if you expose something in the federal government?
Say, what if you're Julian Assange and you expose that collateral murder video or you release those documents, the WikiLeaks documents?
bryan callen
Well, let me ask you something.
I mean, maybe you and I and everybody else are being paranoid.
So in other words, here's my question.
Well, maybe it's not even a question, but, you know, you and I and a lot of us complain about these things.
We worry about the fact that there's a lot of disinformation, misinformation, that the government's controlling this and that, you know, big tech is this, that, and the other thing.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm just being paranoid.
And sometimes I wonder if I'm just, I'm in an echo chamber.
And sometimes I wonder that, you know, cause look man, I'm on the Joe Rogan experience.
I don't know how many people listen to this.
I can say whatever the fuck I want, and people listen.
And that could be British welders.
That could be...
I was in Israel, and an Ethiopian guy said to me, as he's helping me with my bag in the airport, in Israel, he goes, do you come from Joe Rogan?
And I was like, I do come from him.
I come from his rib.
I'm glad you asked.
Yes, I come from his fucking rib.
That's in, you know...
And I can, I can, on YouTube, I can find, I can confirm my bias all day long.
I can find politicians and thinkers who believe everything I believe in.
And so sometimes I wonder, man, and look, as far as Hunter Biden, they tried to get away with a lot of stuff with that laptop.
They try to do all kinds of stuff.
And all we're talking about now is all the shit on that laptop.
And it's all been exposed.
And I promise you, I promise you, Hunter Biden and Joe Biden, I promise you are thinking about this all the time.
Because they're realizing it's a shitstorm that's just beginning.
Mark my words.
So while all of us are complaining that legacy media doesn't cover this and stuff like that, yeah, but guess what?
The Justice Department is going to do their job.
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
I'm just saying.
joe rogan
However, it's very disappointing that legacy media doesn't cover it.
And the reason they don't cover it because they think it's going to empower the narrative that Donald Trump is a superior president.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
If their narrative was always that Donald Trump is corrupt, then also there's real clear evidence that Hunter Biden and Joe Biden got how many millions of dollars?
bryan callen
Yeah.
11 million.
He made 11 million dollars.
He has his law degree.
Now, hold on for a sec.
He worked for Burisma, which was, and I think he had some affiliations with some Chinese energy companies.
And of course, Hunter Biden, who studied, he paints and he has a law degree.
But Burisma, I guess, paid him 11 million dollars, 11 million dollars over a period of, I think, I don't know what it was, four or five years, and maybe even less.
Because they needed his expertise on energy and on natural gas.
joe rogan
Makes sense.
unidentified
Yeah!
joe rogan
Nicholas Cage should play him in a movie.
bryan callen
That'd be fucking...
That's such a good call.
joe rogan
That should be the next Tarantino movie.
bryan callen
Driving 170 miles an hour.
joe rogan
Smoking crack.
Getting a foot job.
bryan callen
I mean, by the way, he'd be kind of fun to hang with.
joe rogan
Oh my God, he'd be fun to hang with.
bryan callen
I mean, he's the dark side.
joe rogan
Yeah, that dude went hard.
bryan callen
Oh yeah.
joe rogan
No matter what you say.
bryan callen
And I have sympathy for an addict.
I mean, he was an addict.
joe rogan
Yes, he was an addict and...
You know, his dad's the fucking president, his brother's dead.
Like, there's so much trauma.
bryan callen
His sister, his mom.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.
bryan callen
I mean, he went through some shit.
So, it's not surprising that he had to wrestle with some stuff, and hopefully now he's sober.
joe rogan
Well, you know, we all know addicts.
And that there's something about the particular...
Like, I know one that...
I haven't seen him in forever, but he always had a coke problem.
And he was a really talented, really funny guy.
But he would go hard.
bryan callen
Hard, dude.
Hard.
joe rogan
Vanish for days.
bryan callen
See you in three days.
joe rogan
Vanish.
Just vanish.
Come back.
Look like wet cardboard.
It looks so bad.
It looks so dead.
bryan callen
Well, how about that cocaine that they found in the White House, and apparently they couldn't trace it back.
In the most secure building in the world, in the most secure building in the world, by the way, because there are no cameras anywhere, they couldn't figure it out.
And the press stopped asking questions.
joe rogan
You know what's a crazy coincidence?
Hunter Biden was there that weekend.
bryan callen
Stop it.
joe rogan
He was there.
And they tried to say he wasn't.
The White House press secretary said that he had left, but he left on Friday.
bryan callen
It's adorable.
joe rogan
He was there on Friday.
bryan callen
It's adorable.
They made it go away, and nobody asked any more questions.
joe rogan
That White House press secretary, if she was Pinocchio...
bryan callen
I think you can say that with any White House president.
It's the hardest job in the world.
joe rogan
But that poor lady, she has to lie every day.
That is her job.
I feel for her.
So do I. And she tries to do the political things with the hands.
bryan callen
I feel bad for her.
joe rogan
And we don't talk about personal affairs.
bryan callen
She's just the messenger and people hate her.
joe rogan
It's a terrible job.
Everybody hates her.
I bet she's a nice lady.
bryan callen
I guarantee it.
joe rogan
My favorite is Kayleigh McEnany, though.
She was the best.
The best!
She's the GOAT. She's the goat.
She came with receipts.
bryan callen
They're alternative facts!
joe rogan
She's always prepared.
She always knew exactly what the actual facts were and how they were wrong.
She just shut them down right in front of their face.
Big smile on her face.
bryan callen
She's the best.
joe rogan
She's an assassin.
bryan callen
An assassin.
joe rogan
The greatest one of those ever.
But I feel like that's a gig you can only do for like nine months or you lose your fucking mind.
bryan callen
You start dying.
joe rogan
They all stop doing it after a while.
bryan callen
Write a book.
Go write a book.
Just be like, hey, by the way, I was bullshitting.
joe rogan
Yeah, after a while.
bryan callen
That's how I feel about Chris Cuomo.
I know Chris.
Chris is, you know, people make fun of him.
Chris is a dude, and I will guarantee, in his mind, he got a good gig.
It was great, but in his mind, he's like, thank God I don't have to do that shit anymore.
joe rogan
Yeah?
bryan callen
Fuck yeah.
joe rogan
How do you know him?
What do you know him from?
bryan callen
I've known him, I knew him in New York.
He's real good friends with Patty.
joe rogan
Patrick Bet David likes him.
bryan callen
Oh, I love him.
joe rogan
So he's a really nice guy.
bryan callen
No, no, he's a, trust me on this, Chris Cuomo is a real dude, and he's one of us, and you'd fucking love him.
joe rogan
So you think he just got trapped doing that stupid show?
bryan callen
Yes, he got trapped.
Talk to him.
Have him on the podcast.
Great sense of humor.
Very self-deprecating.
Doesn't think he's cool.
No, I just like him.
I haven't talked to him in a long, long time, but I like Chris.
joe rogan
How come you don't talk to him if you like him?
bryan callen
I keep in touch through Patty.
joe rogan
Did you say I ran into Patty on an elevator?
bryan callen
No.
Oh yes, you told me.
joe rogan
In New York City.
bryan callen
I just had dinner with her.
joe rogan
Complete dumb luck.
bryan callen
I love her.
joe rogan
I'm going to play pool.
And Patty walks into the elevator and we just make eye contact.
bryan callen
We're talking about Patty Jenkins who directed Wonder Woman 1, 2, Monster.
She's killer.
joe rogan
Monster is such a masterpiece.
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
It's so good.
bryan callen
She's one of my favorite people, man.
joe rogan
Charlize Theron.
We want to talk about going hard.
bryan callen
It's my favorite performance of all time.
joe rogan
That lady went hard.
bryan callen
It's my favorite performance.
joe rogan
All I could think about was how crazy must she be.
I think she could pull this monster out of her.
bryan callen
I've hung out with her a couple times.
joe rogan
Demons are inside of her.
She could pull that monster out of her.
bryan callen
Very normal, but she had a hell of a life childhood.
You know about that, right?
joe rogan
Mm-mm.
bryan callen
Okay.
I think it's public.
joe rogan
Well, let's not take a chance.
bryan callen
Yeah, she went through some stuff.
joe rogan
But goddamn, that performance is insane.
And to be that hot and make yourself that fucking gross.
bryan callen
Oh, my God.
Gained weight and all.
joe rogan
I know, man.
What other female bombshell actress has ever done that?
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
Because you know Christian Bale's done that a bunch of times.
He did it for The Machinist, where he got down to nothing.
And then he did Dick Cheney, where he got real fat.
bryan callen
He's incredible.
joe rogan
He's incredible.
bryan callen
He's on another level.
joe rogan
And Robert De Niro famously did it in Raging Bull.
bryan callen
Well, that's my second favorite.
My first favorite performance is Charlize Theron in Monster.
My second favorite performance of any actor is De Niro in Raging Bull.
And he was the first actor ever to do that.
He gained, I think, 66 pounds.
And he's got a frame like me.
He's very thin and not a tall guy.
And gained 66 pounds.
And no one had seen anything like that.
No one.
joe rogan
And he was shredded.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
When he played LaMotta, he was shredded.
Find De Niro from that movie.
Do you know how hard you...
And this is like pre-steroid days.
Do you know how hard you have to train to look as good as he looked?
bryan callen
Unbelievable.
joe rogan
For as long as he looked.
And this guy is an actor.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
I mean, Robert De Niro was an actor.
He was not like a fucking pro boxer who entered into acting.
bryan callen
He boxed.
He was always in the gym, apparently.
joe rogan
He looked fucking great.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
He looked great in that movie.
bryan callen
Yep.
Had the same mentality.
joe rogan
Yeah, look it up.
bryan callen
God.
joe rogan
He was just a fucking animal.
When that guy would dive into a role, he was a fucking animal.
bryan callen
Fuck, he was amazing.
joe rogan
He was so good.
He was so good.
Go back and watch Taxi Driver.
Holy shit.
bryan callen
I mean, come on.
joe rogan
Holy shit was he good.
bryan callen
Mean Streets, Taxi Driver.
joe rogan
What was the Juliette Lewis movie?
bryan callen
Oh, Awakenings?
joe rogan
No, the one where he played the cunt.
bryan callen
Oh, Cape Fear.
joe rogan
Cape Fear.
bryan callen
Dude!
joe rogan
Holy shit.
bryan callen
Remember how shredded he was in that?
joe rogan
Holy shit.
bryan callen
He worked out with Lee Haney for that.
joe rogan
Did he really?
bryan callen
Yeah.
Lee Haney.
joe rogan
Find Robert De Niro and Cape Fear doing chin-ups.
unidentified
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Remember he was doing chin-ups?
That was such a creepy movie.
That's a movie you could never make today.
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
You could fucking never make that movie today.
unidentified
Look at him.
bryan callen
Look at him.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
And the hair.
Come on, when you were our age, when you were young like that, remember how we were just like, I want to be an actor.
I want to do that shit.
joe rogan
I know.
Everybody wanted to be in there after Cape Fear.
He was so good.
It was such a creepy role, too.
unidentified
Look at that.
bryan callen
With Stalin in the background.
Look at that.
joe rogan
That's everyone's fear.
You fuck someone over and they go to jail and then they get out and kill you.
bryan callen
Oh, fuck.
joe rogan
And then you get out and then this guy.
bryan callen
He was so good!
joe rogan
He was so good, dude.
bryan callen
How about him in Heat?
That's how you should always look.
joe rogan
And he was just a fucking...
bryan callen
I want that hair.
joe rogan
I want that fucking hair.
...insane at how he could capture a role.
Like, you didn't ever think that was Robert De Niro.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
You thought whoever the fuck he was playing in that movie, that's who he was.
bryan callen
Look at the way he walks.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
Great fucker.
You say you don't want hair.
I want that hair.
joe rogan
Do you?
bryan callen
Yeah, I want thick black hair I can comb back just once in my life to see what it's like.
joe rogan
Wah!
unidentified
No, no, no.
joe rogan
I love it.
bryan callen
You do that.
I want to comb with oil.
I want to do this with oil.
And I want to fucking comb it hard.
joe rogan
You want Patrick Bette David hair.
bryan callen
Yeah, but I want stupid fucking...
I want to look like a fucking...
Like a chimp.
I want hard muscles and I want bad tattoos.
joe rogan
And a long mane.
And a long mane.
bryan callen
And I want to smell like bad cologne.
joe rogan
And have Jesus saves on your knuckles.
bryan callen
Ah, fuck yeah.
And I'm going to carry a small pocket Bible.
Yeah, and I want to be able to recite verse.
I hate myself.
Sorry.
joe rogan
You okay?
bryan callen
Alright.
Yeah, I'm good.
joe rogan
You went down a weird road there, buddy.
bryan callen
Yeah, I get excited about that shit.
That brings me back, bro.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That kind of acting is such a different...
There's so many levels of it, like sitcom acting, there's TV show acting, and then there's this like, what the fuck did you just do acting?
bryan callen
Yeah, I think that kind of acting, like Christian Bale I think said, I don't like that I make believe and I wear makeup, so I gotta do something that makes me feel manly.
Like starve myself or just feel, you know...
joe rogan
Is Daniel Day-Lewis totally done with acting?
He's just making shoes now or something?
bryan callen
No, he was a cobbler.
He apparently took three years to become a fucking cobbler.
joe rogan
He wanted to make shoes.
bryan callen
Yeah, I think he's still acting.
I think it pulls him back in.
joe rogan
Really?
bryan callen
I thought he retired.
No, like him and gangs in New York was some crazy shit.
joe rogan
About there will be blood.
bryan callen
I mean, this is another guy.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
This is another dude who said, I'm just embarrassed at being a middle class, boring Englishman.
So I do just crazy shit.
And I wear other people's clothes, say other people's words.
And that's what I do.
And whatever it takes me to get there, I do.
And I'll fucking wear that outfit, not take a shower for five days, and it just gets me in character.
You can keep all that shit, by the way.
You can keep all of it, okay?
Acting like salad.
Never ate a salad where I didn't want it to be over.
Every time I eat a salad, I feel like a fucking coward.
I'm like, I'm eating salad because apparently it'll keep cancer away.
It's the only reason I ever eat any vegetables.
I hate all vegetables.
And acting, I've never been on a set.
I'm sorry to say this out loud.
Where I didn't want to be off.
Where I didn't want to be done.
joe rogan
Brian Callen trying to get work.
I see what you're doing.
You're playing that hard-to-get thing.
bryan callen
Yeah, is that what I'm doing?
joe rogan
Yeah, that's what you're doing.
bryan callen
I'll stick to standard, bro.
I got enough.
joe rogan
There will be blood.
Gang's in New York and there will be blood.
Two of the all-time greats.
bryan callen
God.
joe rogan
I didn't see Lincoln.
bryan callen
Look at him in Lincoln.
He looks so much like Lincoln.
joe rogan
Was that Lincoln movie any good?
bryan callen
Well, I did a movie with a guy who was in that, had a substantial role.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
And I said, what was it like to work with Daniel Day-Lewis?
And he said, uh, well...
And I went, uh-huh.
And he goes, no, it's just that, you know, he wouldn't answer any questions that didn't occur after 1865. He wasn't going to talk to you about today.
joe rogan
To today, yeah.
It's like at the Renaissance Fair, and someone breaks character, and the other ladies go, what art thou talking about?
bryan callen
Yeah.
You could only speak to him as literally as Abe Lincoln, and in fact, then my buddy came in and said, I'm sorry about all that nonsense in Cincinnati, and Daniel Day-Lewis was like, Yes, yes, well, we're going to work on that.
And that was how it was, dude.
He's staying character.
joe rogan
You're talking to Abraham Lincoln, period.
bryan callen
Yeah, there's no craft services like, bro, how you doing?
No, no, no, no, I'm sorry, sir.
I'm going to hold that character for three months.
Well, you know, I did Joker, and I worked with Joaquin Phoenix.
joe rogan
Same thing?
bryan callen
I was in the room with him for five days, and...
You know, when he came, I think, to set he was a hundred...
When he was walking around, he was 180 pounds or something.
And I think Todd Phillips said something like, I think the character should be kind of skinny.
Just kind of said it, you know, casually, like I think.
And Joaquin, I think, showed up at 124 pounds.
And then they were like, let's just give you a...
This guy's got inhuman discipline.
They go, let's give you a nutritionist and everything else.
And he said, no, no, no, it's okay.
He just ate an apple and smoked cigarettes.
And when we were on set, he never looked at you.
He never looked at you.
At one point, I went like this.
I had a scene.
If you blink, I'm out of it.
But I had a bunch of lines that didn't make it.
But I go like this.
I go, what'd you do?
Take a gun and blow your head off?
And I mimicked it.
And I put it in my mouth.
I'm like, poof, like that.
And when I did that...
I fell back.
I did that twice.
On the second time, he fell straight back.
He fell straight back and landed.
He would just improvise and do crazy shit where you didn't know if he was going to even hurt himself.
Remember when he punches the clock?
That's not in the script.
He just punched that clock off the wall, and Todd thought he broke his hand.
That was not on the script.
You know the bus scene where he can't stop laughing?
I saw them shooting that when I got to set.
I swear to God, I saw him walking, and I knew he was going to win an Oscar.
It was that good.
And I looked at Todd, and I go, holy shit.
He goes, you have no idea, dude.
It was like when I saw the fighter, Christian Bale in The Fighter.
Remember that opening scene?
I went, oh, you're going to win an Oscar in this.
I don't know.
You could see it.
You're like, you're a crack addict and you're an ex-boxer.
You see one frame and you go, well, this is something different is happening here.
It was the same thing with him.
But I watched him for, I think it was four or five days I was there.
And I've never seen somebody be able to hold that concentration and that kind of character for that long.
I was like, I can never do that.
I don't want to do that.
That's not fun to be around.
joe rogan
That was a spooky movie because I was like, this is like too close to reality.
bryan callen
Masterpiece, bro.
joe rogan
And then right after that, you have the BLM riots and the COVID riots and all that stuff happened afterwards.
bryan callen
I know.
Have you met Todd Phillips?
joe rogan
No.
bryan callen
Who writes and directs those movies?
unidentified
No.
bryan callen
You need to meet him.
joe rogan
I'd love to be here.
bryan callen
He's one of my favorite people in the world.
joe rogan
I love The Hangover.
bryan callen
He's such a special dude.
You should have him on the podcast.
I think you'd love him, man.
He grew up in a one-bedroom apartment with his mom in New York, and I think he's just a fucking genius.
He gave me notes on a script I wrote once, and I was like, oh, that's why you're a genius.
joe rogan
Isn't it funny that we like people better if they grew up in a one-bedroom apartment with their mom?
bryan callen
With chaos.
joe rogan
I feel like you grew up in a mansion in Park City.
Park City, Utah, just overlooking the slopes.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Well, you know, lack of comfort.
You didn't have an easy childhood.
joe rogan
Well, yeah.
bryan callen
No, I didn't.
joe rogan
I think it's a superpower.
I don't want it for my kids.
bryan callen
I know.
That's the rub, though.
joe rogan
It's horrible.
You know, it's interesting.
But, you know, I feel like...
Kids that are loved for whatever reason do get a certain ambition from their parents and also they recognize work ethic.
My kids work really hard at stuff that they do and I think a lot of it is because my wife works really hard at stuff she likes to do and I work really hard at stuff I like to do and they see that I work hard.
And they know that I have like multiple jobs.
bryan callen
Yeah, maybe part of it's also genetic.
You either have that constitution or you know...
joe rogan
I think it's genetic with one of my daughters.
Because one of my daughters is a complete psycho.
And just like super driven towards things.
Like tries to do things and she gets better and better and better and better and better at them.
Like physical things.
I think that's genetic.
But it's interesting because she comes from, like, instead of needing attention, she comes from this loving household where she gets all this love, so she has confidence.
bryan callen
And her feet are on the ground.
joe rogan
And she has happiness.
But she's also crazy driven.
Where when I was driven, it was like, I want to figure out a way where I'm not a loser.
Like, I have to make something out of myself because I feel like a loser.
It wasn't from a place of healthiness.
I love exciting things and getting better at them.
It wasn't that.
It was like, I'm obsessed with this thing because this is the first time in my life where I didn't feel like a loser.
bryan callen
Well, that's that Jungian, the notion of the shadow.
You have two selves, right?
You have your self and then your hidden self.
The idea that all your insecurities and that boy that I've been trying to run away from forever, that skinny boy who is full of shame and full of fear.
I don't want anybody to see that boy.
You know, that's somebody I always hide with something else, right?
With bravado or with whatever this thing is that I, you know, this armor.
joe rogan
Construct.
bryan callen
Yeah.
And I think that part of what helps you as an artist or even as a person is to bring that boy with you.
You know, bring that shadow with you because there's a strength in that.
There's an honesty in it.
You know, I'm not interested in trying to present...
Something I'm not I am also that other thing that that's there's a lot of strength in in that boy who's skinny and and well There's a lot of strength and desire right desire for improvement and change And that's also some of the things that come off a failure, right?
joe rogan
You have this desire to never experience that again.
That's a big one with stand-up when you bomb or Or if you lose in a fight both those things are true because like you just like oh my god I never want that to happen again and then you you become far more dedicated and You have to have those moments where the realization of effort to reward, like what's the real formula?
Am I lying to myself on this formula?
Am I going to six and I'm telling everybody I go to nine?
Like what is actually really happening?
And the only way you really find out is by attempting to do things.
No matter what you're trying to do, whether it's trying to put together a stand-up set, whether you're trying to get better at jiu-jitsu, whether you're doing gymnastics, whatever it is, the only way to know whether you're doing enough and doing it the right way is to see your improvement when it's tried.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
When it's tested and tried.
bryan callen
That's what's so great about stand-up.
Amazing.
And the challenge of being original, surprising yourself, never goes away.
It's why I'm so addicted to it.
I'm more excited about stand-up now at 56 than I've ever been.
joe rogan
It's fun.
bryan callen
Thank God.
joe rogan
It's fun and it's a beautiful exchange.
It's a beautiful exchange for me as an audience member.
I love the exchange of watching someone on stage kill And I laugh so hard.
I feel great.
It's like a beautiful drug that you get when you're laughing really hard.
It's my favorite thing to do.
Like last night, we all went out with Patrick Bet-David's crew.
Love him.
Yeah, and it was me, Asana Mon, Derek Poston, and Brian Simpson just sitting across from each other just howling laughing.
unidentified
That's great.
joe rogan
Talking and drinking margaritas.
bryan callen
That's a huge part of stand-up, man.
That's what you've created in Austin.
There's not as much that in LA. The hang is so important.
New York has that.
Austin has that.
joe rogan
LA used to have that.
We used to have it at the comedy store.
bryan callen
Yeah, in the parking lot.
joe rogan
Yeah, the parking lot and then the back bar, the back comics bar was always amazing.
bryan callen
Yeah, but you've done that with the mothership.
I need to come out and do that.
joe rogan
What we did is just take all the best elements that we saw in the store and the ethic behind the store.
That's the reason why the bar is named Mitzi's.
It's in homage to Mitzi Shore.
bryan callen
I'm doing Cap Cities.
joe rogan
Pauly came.
Dude, Pauly was so funny.
bryan callen
I love him.
joe rogan
I hadn't seen Pauly on stage in years and he was so funny.
He was so loose.
bryan callen
How great is that?
joe rogan
And he's been working.
He's been working a lot.
bryan callen
He's really matured.
I did a podcast with him.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's a sweetheart.
He really is.
I'm always happy to see him now.
He lives in Vegas now.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
Vegas has a real comedy scene, man.
Vegas has multiple comedy clubs now.
There's like a scene of a lot of guys moved from LA to Vegas.
bryan callen
He hangs with Nick Cage, he told me.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's his homie.
bryan callen
It's kind of random.
joe rogan
Yeah, he sent me videos of him and Nick Cage together.
bryan callen
Do you ever get starstruck with the celebrities you know now?
joe rogan
Sometimes, yeah.
I ran into Axl Rose in Greece.
That was a wild one.
See, this is what happened.
I was with my friend Brian Mororescu.
He's the guy who wrote The Immortality Key, that amazing book on the Illusinian Mysteries in Greece.
And it just so happened that when my family and I were in Greece, he was in Greece.
And so we all met up, and he gave us a tour of Ulysses.
The Parthenon and all that?
The Parthenon.
He explained, like, we went to the museum.
The Parthenon Museum is explaining everything to us.
It was amazing.
Amazing.
So anyway, we were at this restaurant, and we were eating.
It's, you know, late at night.
We're having fun.
And he goes to the bathroom, and he comes back, and he goes, Axl Rose is here.
I go, no way.
And he goes, yeah, he's right over there.
Like, as you're leaving, you have to see him.
I'm like, aw, shit.
So I get anxiety, because when I'm leaving, I'm like, do I say hi?
I kind of have to say hi.
What if he doesn't know who I am?
bryan callen
Right, that'd be weird.
joe rogan
Oh, it was horrible, right?
So he looked at me like he didn't know who I was, and he goes, oh, hey, dude!
And then he shakes my hand, I'm like...
Thank you, baby, Jesus.
And then he starts telling me bits that he likes.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, he's telling me bits.
He's asking me about my Netflix special.
And I'm like, oh, my God, this is amazing.
Oh, that's so cool.
bryan callen
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
So then he invites us to the show.
So they're doing Guns N' Roses in Athens on that Saturday night.
And we were going to be there Saturday night.
We were leaving on Sunday morning.
So it was perfect.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
So we saw three hours of Guns N' Roses in front of this massive stadium.
How are they?
Incredible.
They did three fucking hours.
bryan callen
And people don't realize they can fill a stadium still, right?
joe rogan
And it was 95 degrees out.
bryan callen
And nobody gives a fuck.
joe rogan
They were dripping sweat.
I mean, Slash was fucking...
Banging that guitar out.
bryan callen
Look at that.
joe rogan
This is the video of me.
I filmed this backstage.
This is the end of the show.
Give me some volume so you can hear it because it's fucking incredible to hear the crowd.
This video has no sound.
Oh really?
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
That's weird.
I swear to God it has sound on my phone.
bryan callen
Wow.
Where is Axl?
joe rogan
Anyway, Axl, he's on the box.
See him standing up there and he got down.
bryan callen
And he cut his hair.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Dude is insane.
It was insane.
It was just so cool.
Yeah, of course.
Come on.
The freakiest one for me still though is the Rolling Stones.
When we went to see the Rolling Stones, we saw them at CODA, the Circuits of the Americas.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I was standing there and my friend was talking to me.
I literally couldn't hear a word he was saying because I was so freaked out that Mick Jagger was right there.
I was like, He's really right there.
bryan callen
And he was right in front of you?
joe rogan
No, it was, you know, a good amount of distance.
bryan callen
But you were listening to him.
joe rogan
I was seeing him.
I mean, it wasn't that far away.
We were like 30 rows back or something.
bryan callen
Right.
joe rogan
But I'm like staring at Mick Jagger.
bryan callen
Piece of history.
joe rogan
He's fucking jamming, too.
bryan callen
He's 80 years old today.
joe rogan
Dancing.
He's as old as Biden.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
He is.
He's as old as Biden.
bryan callen
That's crazy.
joe rogan
It's amazing.
And the fucking show was fantastic.
Fantastic.
bryan callen
Wow.
joe rogan
They played everything.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
They don't play Brown Sugar anymore though.
bryan callen
Why?
joe rogan
Too dangerous.
bryan callen
Come on.
joe rogan
They won't play it.
bryan callen
Really?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's sad.
Such a good song.
bryan callen
You're 80, bro.
What are you going to do?
Get canceled?
joe rogan
Fuck off.
How come you taste so good?
bryan callen
Come on, man.
That's an homage.
joe rogan
It's a great song.
And, you know, they played Shelter.
They played all the classics.
bryan callen
Can't always get what you want, which I love.
joe rogan
All the classics.
bryan callen
Sympathy for the devil.
joe rogan
Sympathy for the devil.
They played that.
bryan callen
The only thing is they stopped writing.
They've kind of become a cover band of themselves.
joe rogan
Keith Richards played a new song.
He played at least one new song.
I think you might have played two.
I guess that's just how it has to be when you're around that long.
If you go to see Guns N' Roses and they don't play Paradise City, they have to play Welcome to the Jungle.
They have to play Patience.
bryan callen
When you're in Greece or places like that, do you get recognized a lot?
joe rogan
It's enough.
bryan callen
Yeah.
It's kind of weird, right?
To be in another country and realize that...
joe rogan
It's less than America, but it's enough.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Podcasting celebrity is different, though, because they listen to you so much that in a way you become...
They do know you.
joe rogan
Well, what's amazing is that everybody speaks English.
There's so many people in other parts of the world that speak English as a second language, and they consume English stuff, whether it's movies and television shows, or even podcasts.
They're so much smarter than us.
There's so many people that are bilingual in this world.
And in America, it's like, what are the numbers, besides Latinos and immigrant populations in America, that are bilingual?
Like, what are the numbers?
If you had to guess, let's just guess a percentage of America that's bilingual.
bryan callen
Oh, the percentage of America that's bilingual?
joe rogan
Let's guess.
30. You think it's that high?
bryan callen
I mean, I'm wrong, but I'd say only because of the Spanish population.
So let's say 20%.
joe rogan
Okay, I was going to say 18%.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
So let's think of...
bryan callen
It's probably even lower than that.
joe rogan
Now let's say Spain.
bryan callen
Yeah, they all died.
joe rogan
70%?
Sure.
Okay, let's look.
bryan callen
Israel, Israel, everybody in Israel.
And in Jordan, everyone spoke English.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
I mean, I'm talking about the Bedouins spoke English.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
By the way, by the way, just very quickly, look it up.
Now you like to hunt.
All I'm going to say with your, I'm just going to say this.
joe rogan
What are you going to say?
bryan callen
There is hunting in Jordan, in that desert, that will change your life.
joe rogan
You went hunting in Jordan?
bryan callen
I didn't, but I was talking to what they hunt, which is wild goat, which is deer, which is everything you can imagine.
Even wild hare.
And they do a lot of hunting.
And that desert is some of the most...
I went to Wadi Rum.
That's where they shot The Martian.
And there's some of the most beautiful...
Some of the most beautiful part...
joe rogan
Is that where they shot that movie?
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
The Martian?
bryan callen
Dude, Jordan is...
joe rogan
That's a great movie.
bryan callen
Jordan is so amazing.
And I thought of you, because this Bedouin guy was telling me how much they hunt, because he was showing me pictures of the deer and everything.
And I was like, what do you have?
He goes, we have everything here.
We have everything, and the hunting's unbelievable.
And you do it year-round.
And even pigeon.
Even wood pigeon and stuff like that.
Crazy shit.
joe rogan
Do you know pigeon was brought here for food?
bryan callen
That makes sense.
joe rogan
Yeah, all those pigeons that you see in New York City.
bryan callen
Is that true?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
Squab.
joe rogan
Squab.
bryan callen
It's great.
joe rogan
It's what it is.
bryan callen
It was brought here.
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
From probably England or?
joe rogan
I don't know.
unidentified
It's a good question.
bryan callen
Because in England you have a lot of wood pigeon.
joe rogan
Probably England.
I've eaten a lot of pigeon.
There's parts of this country where people hunt pigeons still to this day.
There's seasons on pigeons and pigeons apparently taste really good.
bryan callen
I think we should use your connections and get to the King of Jordan who lives in Malibu and shoots at Terran Tactical.
And he's a great guy.
joe rogan
Shouldn't we go pigeon hunting instead?
bryan callen
No, no, no.
Listen to me.
I'm going to use your celebrity.
joe rogan
We'll shoot some pigeons.
bryan callen
If the King of Jordan is listening, I think we go.
He loves to hunt.
He's a man of man.
joe rogan
Will you learn how to shoot a bow?
bryan callen
I swear to God I'll learn how to shoot a bow.
joe rogan
I swear.
But it'll take a long time.
bryan callen
I'm a very athletic guy and I'm a good student.
You just teach me.
joe rogan
Remember the last time you tried to pull the boat back?
bryan callen
Shut up.
unidentified
I don't want to talk about that.
bryan callen
I had a trick shoulder.
You fucking asshole.
I think it was an 80 pound ball.
joe rogan
Andrew Schultz came into the back.
He's never pulled a bow back before.
I showed him how to do it.
I showed him how to line the peep sight and he shot it right into the fucking bullseye at 40 yards.
bryan callen
He's a good basketball player.
You see him play basketball.
He's an athlete.
unidentified
Very good.
joe rogan
He can box too.
You see him hit pads?
bryan callen
Let's not get carried away.
joe rogan
Don't get carried away.
He can hit pads.
bryan callen
I've seen him hit pads.
I'm not kidding him that.
joe rogan
He'll fuck you up.
bryan callen
Don't say that out loud.
joe rogan
He will fuck you up.
bryan callen
Because now I'm going to have to fight him and I love him so much.
joe rogan
He's going to fuck you up.
I love him too.
bryan callen
You're out of your mind.
joe rogan
He's going to fuck you up.
bryan callen
You're out of your mind.
joe rogan
He's going to pop you with that jab.
But I love him.
bryan callen
Nope.
You're going to get me riled up.
joe rogan
He's going to move like a real athlete and you're going to panic.
You're going to think about your joints and your ligaments.
bryan callen
Yeah, okay.
Want to see me hit mitts?
joe rogan
I've seen you hit mitts.
bryan callen
I love Andrew.
joe rogan
Give me some volume.
bryan callen
Andrew's an athlete and stuff like that, but you better stop it right now.
joe rogan
Shut the fuck up.
bryan callen
He can play basketball.
joe rogan
This is, I'm seeing Brian Callen getting boxed up right now.
bryan callen
You're out of your fucking mind.
That's what I'm seeing.
You're out of your mind.
joe rogan
Boxed up.
unidentified
Boxed up.
bryan callen
You're out of your mind, but I love him.
joe rogan
Bro, you're getting boxed up.
bryan callen
You're getting me really riled up.
joe rogan
He's going to box you up.
bryan callen
He's got good reach, though.
He's a big kid, and I love him.
unidentified
He's going to fuck you up.
joe rogan
He's not hitting the mitts very hard, but he's going to hit you hard.
bryan callen
All right, we'll see.
joe rogan
He's going to hurt you, boy.
bryan callen
Let's go.
joe rogan
He's going to fuck you up.
bryan callen
Give me some mitts.
Although I got a tweaked back.
I slept wrong.
I slept wrong.
I need a lot of time to warm up.
joe rogan
I love hitting mitts.
bryan callen
Me too.
I love boxing.
I love sparring.
But I had to stop.
I was getting dizzy.
I might go back.
I went to Black House.
They have a public Black House.
And I went there yesterday.
Literally yesterday.
And I'm like, they have wrestling.
They have jiu-jitsu.
And they have Muay Thai classes.
And I think I got to get back into it.
joe rogan
So fun.
It's so fun.
bryan callen
I miss it.
joe rogan
I love hitting pads more than anything.
I love it.
Whenever we'd do the UFC, I would get a chance to train with Mark Della Grate.
And all I was trying to do was hurt his arms.
bryan callen
Well, you kick very hard.
joe rogan
I wanted to hurt his forearms.
bryan callen
Yeah, you did hurt his forearms.
That's a great video.
I've watched that video a lot.
unidentified
All I was ever trying to do was just wanted to fucking dig it in there.
bryan callen
You kick crazy hard.
But you punch hard, too.
I'm surprised.
You don't want to spark because you don't want to get...
joe rogan
I don't want brain damage.
I'm stupid enough.
Plus you're gonna go full.
bryan callen
The problem with boxing is that every time I get hit and then the next day, Wayne McCulloch used to laugh because I was like, all I want to do is even the score.
And that's the problem.
Then you start swinging and everybody's hitting.
joe rogan
You can't have an ego with that.
And you have to be able to train with people that can just pull it back.
bryan callen
Well, that's why you train with really good guys who are not gonna hurt you.
joe rogan
Right.
And they have to know you're not trying to hurt them so they don't have to punish you either.
bryan callen
That's right.
You have to have their respect.
Guys like that will say, I'll go as hard as you go.
unidentified
Right.
bryan callen
It's like, just be cool.
unidentified
Perfect.
bryan callen
And you don't spar with pros, bro.
You move around with them.
Don't say you spar with good amateurs.
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
You've never been hit.
You're moving around.
You're just moving around.
And they're being nice to you.
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
They're going at a five.
joe rogan
Yes.
Like when you see...
Look at that, bro.
You're getting fucked up.
You're getting fucked up.
bryan callen
You're getting me pissed off, dude.
joe rogan
You're getting fucked up.
bryan callen
You're out of your fucking mind.
joe rogan
He's gonna fuck you up, dude.
He's gonna fuck you up.
bryan callen
Look at him.
I love him.
joe rogan
Yeah, it looks good.
bryan callen
He looks good.
joe rogan
I'm seeing you in the ropes.
bryan callen
He's not reaching.
joe rogan
I'm seeing you in the corner getting lit up like a Christmas tree.
bryan callen
You can shut the fuck up.
Bing, bing, bing.
Okay, good luck.
Put all your money on me.
joe rogan
No.
I told you I would bet on him.
bryan callen
All right, dude.
Fucking ready now, man.
My shoulders are getting loose.
joe rogan
Maybe you can be on the undercard.
bryan callen
I'm just fucking, I'm off the center line.
joe rogan
You can be the undercard of Bradley Martin and Mighty Mouse Johnson.
bryan callen
I'm going to Philly.
I'll work with those guys.
I love that.
I went to that gym.
Fucking, what is that name?
Percy Custis.
I went to Bernard Hopkins' old gym.
Whoa.
And we're Julian J. Rock Williams.
joe rogan
Did you take a lot of Instagram photos?
bryan callen
I did.
I shot it.
I shot it.
And my boy, Coach Anthony, who I love, he's got a great YouTube channel.
Shout out to Coach Anthony.
And he held mitts for me.
And he's a great coach.
And I watch his videos.
And I fucking...
I just wanted to be there.
joe rogan
Let me see you hit the mitts after I saw Schultz hit the mitts.
Let's see the difference.
Where's the video you hit the mitts?
bryan callen
I don't know if I have any video.
joe rogan
Come on, bitch.
You know you got something.
bryan callen
I really don't.
I don't...
joe rogan
Let me see the difference.
I want to compare.
bryan callen
Compare technique.
I'm better.
joe rogan
You think so?
bryan callen
Yeah, what do you mean do I think so?
joe rogan
I just want to know.
Here you go.
bryan callen
That's my boy Tariq Azeem.
joe rogan
Not bad.
bryan callen
Right there.
joe rogan
Eh, you hit a little harder than him, that's for sure.
bryan callen
Oh, do you think?
Because I was really sparring.
joe rogan
What do you mean you're sparring?
You're hitting the mitts.
bryan callen
That's not sparring.
No, but that was when I was actually getting in the gym.
And Tarek would teach me shit, and I'd go back to the gym, and it was beautiful.
That fucking dude knows how to...
That was...
Gilbert Melinda, he trained all those guys.
That's Tarek.
joe rogan
I know he is.
bryan callen
Yeah.
It's great.
There's my coach Anthony.
This is, by the way, when I'm 56 and I hadn't hit mitts in forever.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm not as impressed now.
bryan callen
Much less impressed.
I was old, dude!
joe rogan
How old were you in the other one?
30?
bryan callen
Shut up!
joe rogan
What happened to your hands?
bryan callen
This is two years ago.
joe rogan
Did you break both your hands?
bryan callen
I was warming up here because I didn't want to pull anything, so I was just moving around a little bit.
Plus, I had real boxers watching.
joe rogan
You're already tired.
You're exhausted.
bryan callen
Find out what that gym is.
Fuck, what is that gym where Percy Custis is?
I've got to give him a shout-out.
It's in South Philly.
Fuck.
Or West Philly.
I'm sorry.
joe rogan
Brian Callen learning how to box for real.
bryan callen
Listen, man.
This is me just moving around.
joe rogan
Do you have any desire to do other stuff like jiu-jitsu?
bryan callen
Yes, and I want to box some more.
joe rogan
Really?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, Bourdain started jiu-jitsu when he was 58. I know.
bryan callen
I actually secretly do a little wrestling.
joe rogan
Secretly?
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Not so secret anymore, you fucking big mouth.
bryan callen
I do some Greco and I do some Russian.
joe rogan
What do you do?
bryan callen
I do Russian.
I'll just move around a little bit, take downs.
It's kind of stupid.
Yeah, but I love it.
joe rogan
It's fun.
bryan callen
Hegan Machado was teaching me a lot of...
joe rogan
Shout out to Hegan.
bryan callen
The best.
I love that guy.
joe rogan
I love that guy.
bryan callen
And Hegan would teach me a lot of two-on-runs, Russian arm ties, and things like that.
And series after that.
Everything's a series, right?
And that's great because, you know, for me as a wrestler, duck-unders and arm drags, there's a whole series you can do off that.
And I like that stuff.
I don't want to be diving in for a double and single.
joe rogan
Well, yeah, you don't want to get hurt.
But you can still train.
You can still train.
Specifically, if you train jiu-jitsu with the gi, with people who know what they're doing.
Like, there's guys that are in their fucking 60s that roll all the time.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
All the time.
bryan callen
And I love it.
I will do that.
If I could find the time, to be honest with you, but I got kids and it's hard.
joe rogan
I get it.
You got to pick your poison.
And you got to pick your distractions and your hobbies and stuff.
That's why I won't fuck with golf.
I saw you and Jamie out there whacking that golf ball around.
I'm like, you can keep that.
That one sucks up too much time.
unidentified
You especially.
bryan callen
You can't because you'll get crazy.
I know you.
You're a fucking maniac.
joe rogan
It looks like too much fun.
The people that do it all love it.
bryan callen
No, dude.
joe rogan
They can't wait to get out and play.
bryan callen
But for you, because you love pool and you love archery, those kinds of skill sets where it's all about your mind and stuff, you would obsess over it.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm sure I would.
I see Jamie.
He's out there whacking that fucking ball every day.
bryan callen
My dad is 83 years old.
unidentified
I love my father because of 83. Oh, it's DJ Khaled Scott in the golf.
jamie vernon
Everything he does goes viral.
bryan callen
He's hilarious.
joe rogan
He's having a great time.
unidentified
He thinks he can go pro.
bryan callen
No, he can't.
joe rogan
But he's not bad, but he can't end.
bryan callen
He's the best.
joe rogan
So if he's not good enough to be pro, like how good is he?
Is he good like Santino good?
Santino's supposed to be really good, right?
bryan callen
He's not as good as Santino.
unidentified
He's still in first year.
joe rogan
How good is Santino?
bryan callen
I don't know, but Santino I think is like...
joe rogan
Isn't he a scratch golfer?
That's crazy good.
bryan callen
That's crazy good to be into.
But my father at 83 came in the other day, and this is what I love about him, literally came in and goes, I figured out what I was doing wrong.
And I go, what?
He goes, I wasn't moving my...
And he had just had a lesson.
He was like, I got it.
You know, that's how obsessed he is with golf.
joe rogan
At 83. You gotta love that.
Yeah.
bryan callen
You gotta love it.
joe rogan
Well, that's the same thing with pool.
It's like, the reason why people...
Like, why does people waste their time playing that?
Because every time you make a shot, it requires all of your concentration.
It requires...
And the more you can keep it together and run out rack after rack after rack, you get this, like, euphoric...
It just like locks you into the task.
bryan callen
I think it forces you to overcome your liabilities.
I think it actually forces you to somehow contend with the things that are holding you back.
joe rogan
Well, your liabilities during shots, like whether it's an archery shot or a pool shot, are distractions, doubts, fear.
There's a lot of things.
Not concentrating on the task, but if you can just block all that out and just purely concentrate on the task, it's like a form of meditation.
bryan callen
That's right.
joe rogan
Particularly archery, I think, because it's the same sort of position.
You're in the same position every time.
Like every time you draw back, Your shoulder's relaxed.
Your back is taut.
You're on the string.
You're just gently pulling through that trigger.
It's the same position every time.
And you're trying to hit this thing.
With me, it's 73 yards.
I'm trying to hit this thing that's this big.
And it's just...
And to do it right, you cannot be thinking about anything else.
It all goes away.
And there's like a mind-cleansing aspect to that.
bryan callen
I agree 100%.
I talked to John Dudley about that.
I went to Andy Stump's wedding.
John's a giant.
He's a giant.
Talk about being built well, just a natural athlete, you know?
joe rogan
Yeah, he's a great guy, too.
And he's a masterful archery instructor.
bryan callen
I guess he is.
joe rogan
Masterful.
bryan callen
Because I was kind of asking him about the principles around it, and I realized very quickly that this guy could...
Probably talked to you for a year before you even picked up a bow about his philosophy around it.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
No, he mean he teaches archery.
So he has like the most extensive video collection if you go to knock on archery on YouTube.
It's knock on like N-O-C-K. It's the most extensive like archery instructionals that you could get anywhere and the best instruction you can get everywhere.
He does it perfectly.
He teaches you perfect form.
He gives you exactly what you need to do to tune your arrows and tune your bow.
And he puts it all up there for free.
bryan callen
Well, I've said this before.
I think if you really want to get to know yourself, get really good at at least one thing.
Just get really good at one thing.
because the what it takes to get really good at that one thing forces you to confront the things that are holding you back in general and I don't know what those are but all everybody has them you know everybody has hang-ups everybody has insecurities everybody has you know even resentments you know like it's really hard to go through life without having some resentment for people and I think of One of the most valuable things to do is to be able to let go of those people with love.
Like, I know it sounds hokey.
I know it sounds hokey, but...
joe rogan
Listen to Jesus over here.
bryan callen
I know, I know, right?
There's a book called The Tools.
You ever see that?
The Stutz?
No.
Oh, fuck.
Jonah Hill had his therapist.
He did a documentary about his therapist.
When his therapist was nine years old, his brother died of cancer, his three-year-old brother.
And his parents were both atheists, and his parents had nothing to fall back on.
So he ended up being his parents' therapists.
joe rogan
Oh, Jesus.
bryan callen
And by the time he became a therapist, it was a joke for him.
He was like, I've been doing this my whole life.
And what was really interesting about the book and also about the documentary is that then at 30, he gets Parkinson's.
And it's debilitating.
And so he has to contend, he's now 75, and he has to contend with his mortality.
And one of the things that he found, the most frustrating thing about psychoanalysis was this idea that I can tell you, we can find out where, after talking for a long time, where your anxiety comes from.
Your dad did this, or your uncle did this, whatever it might be.
You can find the causes, maybe.
We can expose those.
But now what do we do about it?
Just because you know why doesn't mean you know what to do about it.
So you've got anxiety, or you've got this self-limiting, you know, you've got this self-saboteur, or whatever it might be, or you have this depression.
Well, what do you do about that?
I can prescribe medication, but sometimes that doesn't work.
And he created these things called tools, which I have to say, at 56, read the book, and I really, really found it useful and I found it enjoyable.
But one of the things he talks about is the idea of, and again, it's a Christian notion, but it just makes total sense.
If you hold on to resentment for people, You're turning your back on your future.
You're fighting with them.
You're still fighting with them in one way or another.
That's a weird thing to hold on to.
And I think that it's really important, however you can do it, to move on from that.
But if you move on from that, like wishing for their destruction and stuff, I don't think that works as well.
I think better is to kind of just realize, hey, whatever you're going through, I forgive you.
I forgive you.
I forgive whatever it is, and I'm going to move on from there.
And actually actively do that.
And you can do that through meditation.
You know, he's got these things where you do that and there's a meditative way to do it.
But I think that's pretty powerful.
I think it's very helpful.
Because it allows you to move on from the things that are holding you back.
joe rogan
It's also practical.
bryan callen
It's practical!
joe rogan
You only have so much energy.
You have so much time and so much concentration.
bryan callen
You had to do that.
joe rogan
Yeah, you had to learn how to do that.
bryan callen
You told me your biggest accomplishment was peace of mind.
I always think about that.
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
That's a big thing.
joe rogan
You gotta learn how...
Well, the way I always talk about it is that I think of my mind as bandwidth.
Like, I have a hundred units of bandwidth.
And any time I'm spending time on something that's nonsense or not constructive or not beneficial...
It's stealing from the amount of bandwidth that I would have to writing a new bit or concentrating on something I love to do or being with my family or friends.
Anytime you've got some stuff stealing from you, you've got to figure out a way to push that out.
You don't need it.
You do not need to be dwelling on some...
bryan callen
Did you read a book about that or did you just come to that?
joe rogan
Figured it out.
bryan callen
You did?
joe rogan
Yeah, I figured it out.
I always figure out what makes me feel bad.
What is it about what I've said or what someone said to me or what I've done or what someone's done to me?
What makes me feel bad?
And then how much of that could have been preventable?
How much of it can I mitigate?
How much of it is necessary?
And when you think about disputes with people in particular, where some people just hold grudges and disputes forever, It's just thievery.
You're stealing from yourself.
You're stealing from your time.
And...
bryan callen
Fuck, that's so important, though.
It's such an important thing to understand.
joe rogan
Yeah.
The best revenge is to live your life well.
bryan callen
Oh, yeah.
Just accomplish it.
joe rogan
Yeah, just live your life well.
And then let that poor person who keeps dwelling, let them hold on to that.
bryan callen
Yeah, and also nobody gives a fuck about...
The universe is going to treat you unfairly.
Okay, I'm sorry.
It's just the way it is.
You can dwell on that and worry about it, but you can get to work.
joe rogan
Yeah, just go to work.
And you can do amazing things with your life if you can just figure out what to concentrate on.
The people that fuck their life up, they waste so much time concentrating on bullshit.
And you just don't have time for things that you really love if you do that.
And that's just a cold, hard, pragmatic approach to thought management.
And I had to figure that out on my own.
I figured that out.
But it's just uniquely me.
I would think about like one of the ones that was like early on that I realized was jealousy.
That I would have jealousy over if a comic did really well or if their career was doing really well.
bryan callen
That was your competitive nature.
joe rogan
Yes.
And I realized that.
I remember that when I was like 21 years old.
When I was at an open mic night, I was hoping that someone bombed.
And I remember thinking, wow, what a weak thought.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, what are you doing?
bryan callen
Seeing someone die.
joe rogan
But it was like I didn't have a framework and a structure like I did with martial arts.
So it was like applying competitive drive to an artistic endeavor where actually the people that are really good are supremely beneficial.
They're not bad for you.
They're really good for you.
unidentified
They're inspiring.
joe rogan
They're inspiring, and it's also, there's camaraderie to it that's beautiful, and you learn how to do it from both observing and practicing, and then the level that you're around makes you raise your own level up.
bryan callen
Yeah, it puts you on notice.
You're like, I gotta get to work.
joe rogan
100%.
So I realized that, and I got past that.
But I realized, oh, these kind of weaknesses that are just inherent to human character.
It's inherent to human desires and ego and your thoughts about yourself and what you deserve versus what you're getting.
Especially with young people, there's this frantic rush for success.
And you think that somehow or another, if someone else does well, it takes away from you because you're not winning.
You know, they're winning.
You're like, God damn it.
I fucking hate that dude.
You know, so there's like, there's a thing that people can get trapped doing and they can do that with all sorts of aspects of their life.
It's just a waste of energy.
bryan callen
What's funny is that you have to keep reminding yourself of that.
unidentified
Always.
bryan callen
Because you can fall right back into that.
You don't master anything.
It's like, I'm finally here and I have no demons to fight and I have no habits to overcome anymore.
I have arrived in my childhood.
joe rogan
That's a serial killer.
bryan callen
Yeah, that's a serial killer.
That shit doesn't exist.
You know what's funny?
I've also been thinking about this, too, is the idea that you better be careful when you do hit the top of the mountain.
Because that's when the devil comes...
Sorry to get biblical on you again.
I'm getting fucking biblical.
But that's when the devil starts whispering in your ear.
joe rogan
What does he say?
bryan callen
Well, I'll tell you what he says.
He goes like this.
He goes, you know what?
You're not just God's favorite.
You might be God.
And you know what?
Go ahead and slap Chris Rock up.
I know it's the Oscars, but you can get away with it.
You know what?
Wear a sock over your face and say you love Hitler.
You can do it because you're special.
Everybody can fall when you're at the top of that pinnacle.
Man, you can start to say, you know what?
The laws of the universe don't apply to me, and I'm going to push it.
And that's when the gods go, ha, look at this motherfucker.
He thinks he's one of us.
He thinks he's one of us.
He forgot he's human.
And apparently, I don't know if this is true, but Denzel Washington whispered in Will Smith's ear, I like Will Smith, but he whispered in Will Smith's ear, he said, the devil comes to us at our highest moment.
And Mike Tyson said that too.
You ever see Mike Tyson talking to Francis Ngannou?
Mike Tyson said, you're special, man.
I'm watching you knock people out.
You know what that means?
It means you're one of God's favorites.
And Francis went, wow.
And he goes, here's the bad news.
You're one of the devil's favorites too.
And you gotta leave with the guy you came with because he's looking to take you home, too.
And it's like, damn, Mike!
Dropping fucking knowledge!
unidentified
Right?
joe rogan
You know, he's training Francis Ngannou for the Tyson Fury fight.
bryan callen
That's crazy.
Is he?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
That old school, that custom motto, that old school.
joe rogan
I mean, I don't know how much he's gonna change his style because they're fighting in October.
You know, it's August now.
bryan callen
Yeah, he's got Mike I mean, Tyson Fury's got a plethora of knowledge there.
joe rogan
He's the best ever.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
As far as heavyweights, it's hard to imagine, other than Mike Tyson in his prime, anybody beating that guy.
Tyson Fury's so good.
He's so good.
He's mad at me.
He's mad at me because I said Jon Jones would fuck him up.
bryan callen
But in an MMA fight, he would.
That's not being mean.
joe rogan
Yeah, but just the way I said it.
I dragged him into this who's the baddest man on the planet thing, which I didn't mean to do.
I love the guy.
Yeah, but he's probably being dramatic.
I was talking a little loose.
bryan callen
He's being dramatic when he's a fighter.
joe rogan
I was with Schultz.
I think we probably had a couple of cocktails.
I was talking a little loose.
He got very mad at me.
bryan callen
He did?
For real?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
bryan callen
Did he text you or text him?
joe rogan
No, no, no, no, no.
He just talked shit about me and made a video.
I love the guy.
I really do.
bryan callen
It's nothing not to love.
joe rogan
Look, if he learned MMA, look, that guy's a warrior.
If someone taught him when he was young how to wrestle and jiu-jitsu and leg kicks, he would fuck everybody up as an MMA fighter as well.
Because that's who he is.
bryan callen
But the reality of wrestling is just a different thing.
You're not defending against an ankle lock unless you've seen it and drilled it a lot of times.
joe rogan
It's not just that.
You're not defending against Jon Jones.
bryan callen
A rear naked choke.
joe rogan
Especially if there's nowhere to go.
Like if you're trapped in a room.
bryan callen
Yeah.
But that's not insulting.
joe rogan
He thought it was.
bryan callen
It's a different sport.
joe rogan
Because he's a fucking warrior, man.
bryan callen
But it's a different sport.
joe rogan
You can't say that a guy is a better man than him.
That's what it is.
I could have said it in a much more diplomatic way.
bryan callen
Okay.
joe rogan
I should have said it in a much more diplomatic way.
bryan callen
So you mean you were too honest?
joe rogan
A little bit.
Talking shit.
That's what it was.
It was talking shit.
But I do love the guy.
And I do think that the thing about Francis Ngannou in Tyson Fury is I do not imagine a world where Francis Ngannou can outbox Tyson Fury.
I do not think that that will ever take place.
Tyson Fury is a master.
His footwork, his jab, his understanding of what to do.
You ever see that fight with Otto Wilde where he's on the ropes and just bobbing and weaving?
bryan callen
He can see what you're doing.
He's going to put Francis Ngannou...
One of the great things about watching Bud Crawford with Errol Spence is...
joe rogan
Oh my goodness.
bryan callen
Bud Crawford was able to put his feet in a place where Errol Spence had to keep adjusting.
That's why it looked...
As great as Errol Spence looked, you'll never see him look as off-balance as he did against a genius like Bud Crawford.
It's more where he's placing his feet.
Those little details, those micro-adjustments, he's never out of place.
joe rogan
And his accuracy.
bryan callen
Oh, fuck.
joe rogan
He's landing those hooks in tight like that?
bryan callen
Where he's punching from.
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
It's where he's punching from.
joe rogan
Perfect positioning.
bryan callen
Yes.
joe rogan
Perfect positioning.
bryan callen
That has to be...
You don't learn that in four months.
joe rogan
No.
No.
bryan callen
Those are details that are...
If you're tutored right and you have the kind of brain that someone like Hopkins or Bud Crawford has...
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
That's for you.
joe rogan
What I will say, though, is Francis Ngannou hits like a freight train.
unidentified
Correct.
joe rogan
He hits like a freight train.
bryan callen
But Dylan White does too, and so does...
joe rogan
I don't think those guys hit as hard as Francis.
I mean, I don't know, but Francis is a natural 265. He has to cut down to make 265. He hits so fucking hard.
The question is, will he be able to connect on the greatest heavyweight ever?
bryan callen
Also, when is he going to get tired?
joe rogan
Yeah, will he get tired?
Will he be inefficient like with Conor and Floyd Mayweather?
Floyd Mayweather is so efficient and so smooth and composed.
Always relaxed.
And he can box like that for 30 rounds in a row.
bryan callen
They also roll shots.
He can just kind of move.
joe rogan
Look at this with Otto Whalen.
bryan callen
Watch this.
joe rogan
Look at this movement.
bryan callen
Look at him.
He knows what's going on, too.
He just keeps his...
joe rogan
And the length and distance that fucking guy has.
bryan callen
Look at him.
joe rogan
His jab is just...
unidentified
He's so good.
joe rogan
Everything he does is incredible.
And, you know, there was this crazy controversy after the Deontay Wilder fight where they were claiming that he didn't have his gloves on correctly and that his knuckles were actually over the padding.
unidentified
Stop, stop.
joe rogan
But that's just because he's so loose.
When he throws his hands out sometimes, he mixes up between showing you the jab and just popping you and then driving With a power shot.
bryan callen
But he also figures out all your patterns.
The other thing about being a boxer at someone like Ngannou's level, rather novice, and someone like Tyson Fury...
Tyson Fury has patterns.
He can see...
Francis Ngannis is going to come to him with a game plan.
That game plan, with all due respect, for someone like Tyson Fury is rudimentary.
They're going to figure out, I see what you're doing, blah, blah, blah.
It's like with Duran.
I can't remember the boxer, but he came back to his corner and goes, he's reading my mind.
No, Duran just understands those patterns so well that he was beating you to the punch.
joe rogan
Right.
bryan callen
That's what was happening.
unidentified
Right.
bryan callen
It's the same idea.
Once a fighter does that...
And Manny Pacquiao did that to the great Miguel Cotto.
He did it by the third round.
He figured him out.
And you could see...
What's his name?
Freddie Roach screaming, you know, knock him out.
And then Freddie, after that fight, said...
I talked to him, actually.
He said he didn't want to knock him out.
Didn't want to hurt him, but he couldn't.
unidentified
Wow.
bryan callen
That's how...
He's so nice.
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Very killer.
bryan callen
How about that?
joe rogan
Manny Pacquiao, so nice.
bryan callen
Didn't want to knock.
You know, that's true though, man.
When a fighter figures your game out that quickly, we'll see you later.
He downloaded everything you're going to do.
unidentified
Is that real?
joe rogan
He really didn't want to knock him out?
bryan callen
That's what Freddie Roach said.
joe rogan
Wow, that's crazy.
bryan callen
Because he was like, get him out of here.
And he's like, I don't want to be mean.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
bryan callen
You could see it.
You could see he broke his nose and it was just crazy.
joe rogan
Manny's talking about fighting again, like a real fight.
bryan callen
Well, guys like Manny and guys like...
Nobody talks enough about Bernard Hopkins and what he was able to do up at the age of 50. I was talking to Masvidal about this.
You're talking about a guy in a division where speed and power make a big difference.
And he was at 50. He was still fighting at a level that maybe two other people...
joe rogan
World Championship level.
bryan callen
Crazy!
joe rogan
Yeah, incredible.
unidentified
And that's because of his fight IQ. His fight IQ and his discipline.
joe rogan
The guy never got out of shape, never ate bad, never drank.
bryan callen
The push-ups between rounds.
joe rogan
Yeah.
He was incredible.
He's just one of the all-timers.
What a guy to emulate.
You see his style.
When he beat Tito Trinidad, nobody gave him a chance.
He went over to Puerto Rico and threw the Puerto Rican flag on the ground.
bryan callen
I didn't see that.
joe rogan
They tried to kill him.
He hyped that fight up in a big way.
He got Tito Trinidad very emotional.
Then he just boxed his face off.
bryan callen
He'll get in your kitchen, man.
He'll find you always have a window open in your house, and he'll climb into that fucking window.
And good luck.
joe rogan
He's such a good boxer.
bryan callen
Apparently with Kelly Pavlik, who was a killer, he whispered in his ear, he said, don't let this ruin you.
unidentified
Wow.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wow.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
I remember that fight.
He was in his 40s.
bryan callen
And Kelly Pavlik was a killer.
joe rogan
Was a killer.
unidentified
Killer.
joe rogan
Because after he knocked out Jermaine Taylor.
bryan callen
Right.
And Jermaine Taylor's a monster.
joe rogan
Kelly Pavlik was a killer.
bryan callen
Yeah, killer.
But just ran into a genius.
joe rogan
He just ran into a genius.
bryan callen
That's okay.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Genius boxers, to me, it's the most exciting thing to watch.
So when you watch a guy like Terrence Crawford or the guy who's going to fight next, Boots Ennis, I don't know much about Bottas.
Oh my god, he's so good.
bryan callen
Is he fighting him at 54?
joe rogan
I think they're talking about doing a rematch with Errol Spence at 54. Yeah, well.
But, you know, that's a hard sell.
bryan callen
Yeah, it is.
joe rogan
The only thought would be that Errol Spence depleted himself so much getting to 154 that he couldn't fight to the best of his abilities.
But it just looks like Terrence Crawford's on another level.
bryan callen
He is.
joe rogan
I mean, it's undeniable that boxers do get weakened when they lose a lot of weight.
It's undeniable.
bryan callen
But he had been world champion at 47. Yeah, I don't think that was an issue of weakness.
I think that was an issue of just...
joe rogan
Genius.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
Genius.
bryan callen
You just...
Sometimes you are out...
You're beaten by some...
I think Bud Crawford is greatness.
He's greatness.
He's not just good.
He's greatness.
And greatness is a different X factor.
joe rogan
What did you think of the Lomachenko-Devin Haney fight?
bryan callen
I didn't see enough of it.
I saw highlights.
And I heard that Lomachenko got the best of them, but I don't know.
joe rogan
It looked to me like you won.
I've watched it twice now.
I could kind of see a world where it's close.
It's close.
And the unfortunate aspect of the fact that a lot of people don't agree with the decision is that it kind of...
It tarnishes an amazing fight.
Because the fight was amazing.
Both Devin Haney, his performance, and Lomachenko's performance.
It was an incredible fight between two guys in their fucking prime.
It was such a good fight.
bryan callen
Is Lomo in his prime though?
joe rogan
He still is, man.
The way he fought against Devin Haney, he looked fucking fantastic.
unidentified
Crazy, right?
joe rogan
I think he's 36 now.
bryan callen
You know how many fights he's had?
Those guys have come up through that Russian system.
I think, like, Triple G had 350 fights, I think, as an amateur or something crazy.
unidentified
Insane.
bryan callen
Like, are you out of your fucking mind?
joe rogan
Insane.
Insane.
bryan callen
Yeah.
I mean...
joe rogan
Insane.
Lomachenko's got a wild story, too, because his dad made him stop boxing for two years to learn Russian-Ukrainian dance, rather.
unidentified
I know.
bryan callen
That's so weird.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And Ukrainian dance was, like, the foundation for his footwork.
bryan callen
Isn't he Usyk's coach as well?
joe rogan
Yes.
unidentified
Yes.
bryan callen
Now, that's a guy, if you watch that Anthony Joshua fight, I mean, he's just a, I mean, that's so beautiful to watch that.
unidentified
I know.
bryan callen
Setting traps and, like, I watched some guy break down the stuff that I didn't see, that I didn't know, as just somebody who doesn't understand.
joe rogan
How about the sheer volume of strikes that he throws as a heavyweight?
bryan callen
God!
joe rogan
Incredible.
bryan callen
Because he's a natural cruiserweight, too.
It's not like he's a big man.
joe rogan
No, he's like 220, I think.
unidentified
That's so weird.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's not a big heavyweight at all.
But you've got to realize also that Mike Tyson in his prime was also about 220. Yeah, that's correct.
bryan callen
That's correct.
He's big enough to hurt you.
joe rogan
Usyk was so slick.
bryan callen
I know.
joe rogan
And Anthony Joshua is such a fucking big man.
bryan callen
Well, you're talking about a super athlete.
joe rogan
And he almost took Anthony Joshua out in the first fight.
bryan callen
Yep.
joe rogan
Especially towards the end of the fight.
He was battering Joshua.
bryan callen
Everything's a plan, though.
He's doing...
joe rogan
Yeah, he's so slick, man.
He rolls with stuff, and he wears you out.
bryan callen
Look at that hairstyle and that mustache.
joe rogan
He's such a unique character.
bryan callen
He is.
joe rogan
He's very, very eccentric.
bryan callen
Wasn't he a two-time Olympian?
joe rogan
I believe so.
bryan callen
Yeah, I think he won.
Right?
Look that up, Jamie.
I think he was a...
joe rogan
Phenomenal boxer though.
And interesting, right?
I was really interested in seeing him and Tyson Fury.
bryan callen
I was too!
joe rogan
That's an amazing fight.
bryan callen
I wonder if his camp just doesn't want that...
I wonder if his camp is like...
joe rogan
Who's camp?
bryan callen
Tyson Fury's camp is like...
joe rogan
Who knows?
I think they want the most money possible in the Francis Ngannou fight.
They're doing it in...
I think they're doing the UAE. I think they're doing it.
I don't know.
Maybe they're doing it in Dubai.
bryan callen
He won a gold medal.
joe rogan
There you go.
bryan callen
I thought it was twice, but I think it was his warrant.
joe rogan
Outporting Artur Bitterbeev.
And Bitterbeev is the only fighter right now that's a champion that has a 100% knockout rate.
He's undefeated.
I think he's 19-0 with 19 knockouts.
He is a fucking monster.
And that was the guy that they were trying to set Canelo up with.
Because when Canelo fought Bival, one of the other names that was on the table was Bitterbeev.
Oh, he's a destroyer.
You ever seen this guy fight?
bryan callen
Bival?
joe rogan
No, Bitterbeev.
bryan callen
No, I've never seen this guy.
joe rogan
Bitterbeev is one of the most impressive guys in boxing.
bryan callen
Is that right?
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
What weight does he fight at?
joe rogan
He's a light heavyweight.
He's a light heavyweight champion.
He's the guy who knocked out Joe Smith Jr., the guy who knocked out Bernard Hopkins.
bryan callen
Oh boy.
That's a lot to deal with for Canelo.
joe rogan
Go to Bitterbeev's highlights.
Go to his highlights.
bryan callen
That's a bigger man than Canelo.
joe rogan
He's a fucking monster, dude.
He's not just big, he's a fucking destroyer.
And he's not like an elusive guy like an Usyk, he's Chechnyan.
Just a fucking warrior, dude.
Just comes at you with insane technique, blood and guts, just smashing people.
All knockouts, dude.
bryan callen
Canelo wants to fight him?
joe rogan
There's Joe Smith Jr. No, I don't believe so.
I don't believe he wants any of this.
I think he wants another Bivol fight, but this is the most terrifying matchup in light heavyweight.
He's a fucking animal, dude.
And he looks like an animal with that fucking beard.
bryan callen
Look, there's a reason there are weight classes.
joe rogan
Watch some of these KOs, man.
This fucking guy is terrifying.
And 100% knockout ratio.
Everybody he fights, and every fight is the same way.
Seek and destroy.
Comes straight at you, hands up high, and break you down.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he hits like a fucking Mack truck.
bryan callen
Yeah, no thanks.
joe rogan
I mean, he's a fucking tank, dude.
bryan callen
Yeah.
Look at that.
joe rogan
And he puts together these beautiful combinations.
Look at how tight that left hook was.
Everything's tight.
It's these beautiful combinations, but just constant pressure.
bryan callen
Yeah, no thanks.
joe rogan
Look how he breaks people down.
bryan callen
Just a beast.
joe rogan
And this was the Anthony Yard fight.
And Yard's a monster.
Oh dude, he's fucking people up.
He's so interesting to watch too.
Because it's just, how long can the person outlast this attack?
bryan callen
Oh Christ.
joe rogan
I mean, how long can the person handle this?
I don't think that's Yard.
bryan callen
I think your body just gives in.
He hit him in the body and came right to the face.
joe rogan
Yeah, that wasn't Anthony Yard.
But this is, I mean, there's a whole series of his fights like this, and they're all the same way.
He just puts it on guys until they break.
bryan callen
Yeah, no thanks.
joe rogan
He's incredible.
Yeah.
bryan callen
Who would be a competitive fight for him?
joe rogan
Bival.
Bival and him would be a great unification fight.
bryan callen
Bival looked like a bigger Canelo, like very similar style to me.
Like really, really similar to Canelo when they fought.
I was like, that's just a bigger Canelo.
joe rogan
Big and long and a real light heavyweight.
bryan callen
Fundamentals are perfect.
joe rogan
No chance ever of being 154. He's a real 175 pound guy.
Props to Canelo for wanting to challenge himself like that.
It's kind of wild.
It's kind of wild that he goes up and knocks out Kovalev.
bryan callen
Kovalev is huge.
joe rogan
Kovalev was later in his career then, but if you go back and watch his first fight with Andre Ward and all the other guys that he knocked out.
Kovalev, when he was the crusher, he was a beast.
bryan callen
Andre Ward was another guy who could just download what you were doing.
Did it with Kovalev twice.
joe rogan
And by the way, fought most of his career with one arm.
bryan callen
What do you mean?
joe rogan
He had a fucked up shoulder most of his career.
bryan callen
Is that true?
joe rogan
Yeah, he had an operation before the second Kovalev fight.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah, he beat all those guys.
The middleweight tournament that he went through, the Carl Froch, all those guys.
He beat all those guys with one shoulder.
bryan callen
You know who came out of that camp?
You know who boxed in Oakland in Andre Ward's camp for a long time was the Diaz brothers.
unidentified
Really?
joe rogan
Oh, that's right.
They did a lot of sparring with him.
bryan callen
Yeah.
joe rogan
What do you think about that Jake Paul thing?
bryan callen
Well, that's why I was bringing it up.
joe rogan
We're going to have that, too.
So we're going to do Fight Companion.
We'll have the UFC. We're going to pause that when it starts.
bryan callen
I'm going to be on stage.
joe rogan
Yeah, you're not going to be there for that.
bryan callen
I know, but when are you going to start it?
Because I'll be...
joe rogan
Whenever the fights start.
unidentified
Fuck.
joe rogan
What time does the fights start?
bryan callen
I got two shows.
joe rogan
8. 8 p.m.?
bryan callen
Cap Cities, everybody.
joe rogan
Oh, they start at 8?
The main card starts at 8?
You're going to miss everything.
bryan callen
I am, right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
We'll have dinner beforehand.
joe rogan
Okay, we'll have dinner.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
So it'll just be...
Space isn't real.
Whether or not I should...
bryan callen
Listen, I do Conspiracy Social Club with Sam Tripoli, and we have...
joe rogan
Sometimes he gets you, though.
That's what's amazing.
Oh, it's the best.
What's amazing is when things you don't believe are true turn out to be true.
Because that's the thing.
Like, hanging out with Sam Tripoli enough, you will eventually realize that there are conspiracies.
unidentified
There are conspiracies.
joe rogan
And there's a lot more of them than anybody wants to admit to.
bryan callen
Yep.
Sam is, a lot of times I find myself texting him going, Sam, you were right.
Damn it!
joe rogan
Isn't that crazy?
bryan callen
I know!
joe rogan
Isn't it crazy?
bryan callen
I know.
He is.
We had a whole, we have these not, it's like WWE on that show.
We just, you know.
joe rogan
Well, he goes so deep into those goddamn things.
He knows so many of them.
And he starts bringing them up and you're like, what?
bryan callen
But then we get into like, nuclear bombs aren't real.
joe rogan
Yeah, how is that one catching?
How is that?
I don't know.
Does anybody see that one they dropped in the ocean where you literally see the fucking, this several mile high plume of water that comes out of it?
bryan callen
I mean, look, usually the people that are saying there are no nuclear, with all due respect, are saying there are no nuclear weapons.
They usually don't have an advanced degree in nuclear physics.
I know they've studied some nuclear physics, but they don't have an advanced degree.
That's all I'm trying to say.
I get it.
It's like Jeff Dye has a great joke.
He's like, why does everybody who talks about cryptocurrency, or why does everybody who tries to sell me on cryptocurrency have three roommates in their 30s?
Fucking great joke.
It's like, amen.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's a good joke.
bryan callen
Some of this stuff is...
There's that great quote.
He knows enough.
This applies to me.
It applies to all of us.
We have to be careful.
You know enough to think you're right, not enough to know you're wrong.
That's an important thing, especially as you're inundated with all this information all the time.
joe rogan
Find that nuclear bomb detonated in the ocean around the battleships.
Because I remember they did this.
They had an idea of how big the explosion was going to be.
And so they positioned these ships.
So, like, how far can the ship be to where the bomb goes off?
They were way off.
Really?
Way off.
bryan callen
Jesus.
joe rogan
Yeah, wait till you see what this looks like.
bryan callen
Well, did you see that?
joe rogan
You've never seen this video?
bryan callen
No.
Did you see in Lebanon?
Remember that explosion?
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
Okay, did you ever see?
I think it was a jet ski.
And he was videotaping.
joe rogan
So watch this.
bryan callen
Oh, my God.
Holy shit.
joe rogan
Wait till it pans out and you see how high it goes.
bryan callen
Did they detonate it underwater?
joe rogan
Yeah.
bryan callen
How many fish that killed?
joe rogan
Everyone.
All the fish.
bryan callen
Are you kidding?
joe rogan
They probably killed fish for a mile around.
bryan callen
100%.
joe rogan
That's not the best view of it.
There's a view of it from the shore.
There's another one.
bryan callen
And that's all water?
What is that?
That's crazy.
joe rogan
That's water.
Yeah, the nuclear bomb shot the water like I don't know how high in the air.
bryan callen
Oh my god.
joe rogan
There's another one that, yeah, that's the one.
This one's wild.
I love this one.
Watch this one.
So they detonate this one.
Look at this.
bryan callen
Oh my god!
joe rogan
Watch how high it goes.
It just keeps going.
bryan callen
Oh my god.
Oh!
joe rogan
Yeah, look at this.
Look at this, dude.
How insane is that?
Imagine seeing that.
Look how high that fucking cloud is.
bryan callen
That's so insane.
joe rogan
And there's different angles of it where it's like a zoomed back angle where you can see the whole thing from water.
bryan callen
I've never seen that, man.
joe rogan
Fucking incredible.
bryan callen
Now that's an atomic bomb, not a thermonuclear bomb.
joe rogan
Exactly.
bryan callen
There's a difference.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're more powerful.
bryan callen
Yes, that is correct, sir.
joe rogan
So, like, the bombs that they dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the ones that they have now are so many times more powerful.
bryan callen
Well, I told you, I have dinner with Eric Weinstein, and he comes in, and he's all down.
I'm like, what's that?
He goes, I think we have 30 years left.
I'm like, here we go.
He's very dramatic, and he's like, we're going to miniaturize thermonuclear weapons, and with CRISPR-Cas9, we're going to be able to take viruses and manipulate them.
And I was like, you have a point there.
You have a point.
Get to work.
Hey, you, get a lab and get to work.
joe rogan
Did you see that lab they found, the Chinese-operated lab that was in Los Angeles, in the LA area?
bryan callen
No.
joe rogan
Yeah, they found some lab with mice that were in horrible conditions.
There was something about them being infected with COVID-19.
See what the article is?
But it was like a bio-research lab that was in some abandoned warehouse somewhere.
California officials closed down bootleg Chinese lab, brimming with infectious agents such as COVID and HIV. In addition to pathogens, investigators found hundreds of chemicals, a thousand mice, many of them dead, and bootleg COVID and pregnancy tests apparently developed on site.
bryan callen
Well, that's not good, man.
joe rogan
So they were experimenting with rats and mice to develop COVID tests?
bryan callen
Holy shit.
unidentified
In a fucking warehouse somewhere with HIV. Oh, so they were trying to come up with tests.
joe rogan
Who knows what they were doing?
Who fucking knows?
But the rats, or the mice rather, most of them were dead already.
bryan callen
Did you see where they put in the chat GBT, come up with chemical weapons, and it came up with 40,000 different variants of a chemical weapon?
Do you see this?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's not good.
bryan callen
No.
There's a lot to worry about.
joe rogan
Yeah, Eric Weinstein scares the shit out of me with all that we have 30 years left talk.
bryan callen
What do you think of this UFO shit?
I don't think any of it's true.
joe rogan
I feel like I'm being lied to.
bryan callen
Me too.
joe rogan
And here's the thing.
I wonder if that's because disclosure, I imagine in my head that it would be this grand moment and the clouds would part and we would figure out that we're not alone in the universe.
And maybe...
This reality of what they're disclosing, that they have recovered alien spacecrafts, that they have biological creatures from another planet, that they have frozen or from another dimension, they are in possession of both craft and biologics, they know that aliens are real.
Maybe it's just that is so strange and so alien that my mind is not registering it as a possibility, even though it can be a possibility.
If you just look at the stars in the sky and look at, you know, what we know about biology on Earth, It's totally possible that this, in this infinite universe, has occurred other places and gotten to a much more advanced stage.
bryan callen
I love that they were able to cross galaxies and then they couldn't land.
joe rogan
No, that's not the thing.
The thing is...
Even if you have the most advanced spaceships...
Think about cars.
They're so much more advanced than they've ever been before.
Thousands of people still die every year in car accidents.
If you have electrical storms...
And the very famous case in Varginha, Brazil, which James Fox did this documentary called The Moment of Contact.
It's amazing.
It's about this town in 1996 in Brazil that experienced just universal sightings.
Everyone in the town saw these flying saucers and saw that there was this giant lightning storm and something appeared to have crashed.
And these people went to the side of this crash site and they said that there was biological entities.
One of them was badly injured.
This guy carried it.
This police officer carried it.
He put it in the back of a car.
They took it to a hospital.
They kicked them out, took it to another hospital.
The guy who carried it developed a horrible bacterial infection that they could not cure and he was dead.
Within two weeks.
They didn't know what it was.
There's documentation of them bringing this thing to these different hospitals.
There's documentation of this guy dying of this horrible bacterial infection.
There's all these eyewitnesses.
The town, when you enter into the town, has an actual statue of this fucking UFO that is in the center as you're entering into the town.
They're famous for this incident.
They said the U.S. Air Force sent a plane down there to recover the wreckage and return it back to America.
This guy, David Grush, who's the whistleblower, has exposed that they supposedly have a retrieval program for crashed UFOs and that it's happened multiple times over the course of human history.
This was what Bob Lazar was talking about in 1989. Why keep it a secret?
bryan callen
I don't understand.
joe rogan
Well, I think they don't want to anymore.
And I think there's part of it that it's not beneficial to keep it a secret.
And that too many people who feel like this is an important thing that the world should be aware of, and that maybe this could actually be a uniting moment for us.
If we realize that Space Daddy is really watching everything we do, and there are something that's here, whether it's interdimensional, whether it's from another planet, That would be very unifying.
bryan callen
Very unifying.
But I don't believe it.
But I appreciate it.
joe rogan
What do you think is going on then?
Why do you think they're having these...
bryan callen
I think it's impossible to keep a secret, especially a secret of that magnitude.
There's no way...
joe rogan
Well, they're not keeping it.
That's one of the things.
bryan callen
It's getting out.
But they have since the 30s, according to these whistleblowers.
joe rogan
But have they?
Because, look, Bob Lazar talked about this very program exactly in 1989. Exactly.
bryan callen
But was he talking about a drone program?
And do we have technologies that we are not aware of that can do things that make no sense?
Perhaps.
It's kind of like the Manhattan Project, right?
We might have some technological breakthroughs that we are not sharing with other countries.
And that may be the case.
The U.S. military may have...
Game-changing technologies.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
That's certainly possible.
bryan callen
That sounds more plausible to me.
joe rogan
A lot of people think that's what that tic-tac incident is off the coast of San Diego in 2004. It's a famous one where Commander David Fravor, they have multiple instrumentation, the documentation of where this thing was.
And it was at 50,000 plus feet above seat level and it went down to 50 in less than a second.
It took off at an insane rate of speed.
That was 2004?
Yes.
Multiple jets, more than one jet that had visual contact with this thing.
They have video of this thing taking off.
They estimated that at the speed that it took off, there was some sort of analysis of what it would do to a biological entity.
It would turn you into jelly.
The amount of force required to go that fast, that quick, it was something like I forget what the g-force was, but it was something insane.
Some insane number of g-force.
If it was taken off that fast, there's no way a biological entity would survive.
But the question is, why would we assume that it's a biological entity?
It doesn't have any windows.
It's this round thing that looks like a tic-tac.
If there is some sort of advanced propulsion system, some revolutionary way of moving through space and time that the US government has developed in some black ops program, that seems very likely impossible.
That seems more likely than aliens visiting us.
But there's more than one incident, and there's a lot of these things.
And the possibility of alien life in the universe, although we've never experienced it, seems rational.
It seems very rational.
And if you were going to study an emerging civilization That is both primitive and warlike and yet insanely technologically advanced to the point where they have nuclear weapons, they can transmit video through the sky, they have propaganda, they have tracking of their citizens.
Like, that's us.
That's us right now.
And while we are these territorial primal beings with fucking nuclear weapons, this would be a good time to start exposing yourself and to stop this nonsense.
Insanity.
The reason why we named the rooms of our club Fat Man and Little Boy is because in UFO lore, that's when they started showing up.
After the detonation of the atomic bombs in Japan, that's when the UFO sightings ramped up.
bryan callen
And they ramped up mostly in the U.S., right?
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
So that's interesting because the U.S. was the nuclear power.
Yeah.
joe rogan
And we were the one who was doing a lot of fucking testing.
And also, we have all these military bases.
Who the fuck has more military bases than us?
Who has more nuclear weapons pointed at other people than us?
We have them all over the place.
And there's all these multiple sightings and eyewitness accounts of very credible people who say these things have hovered over military bases.
bryan callen
It'd be pretty cool if these aliens were benevolent overlords.
And they were like, hey, my children.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Or maybe even so advanced intellectually that the concept of an overlord is preposterous.
And they're just biological management.
They're just the gardeners tending to make sure the weeds don't get out of hand and just let this process continue to play itself out.
Because this process of technological innovation is insane.
It's the everything that humans do.
It's what we do at the pinnacle of our creation as we make better technology.
bryan callen
Well, I always wonder about fractals and whether or not, like, this idea of this being a simulation, this being, you know, like, we are kind of replicating, we are creating machines and doing our best to create them in our own image, right?
joe rogan
Yes.
bryan callen
And that's interesting.
Because the mythologies that we subscribe to are the idea that this god that we pray to made us in his image.
And we're doing the same thing now with robots and computers.
And that's an interesting thing, that we seem to have this sort of...
This idea that that's the scaffolding for the way we think, right?
And to what end?
And why are we doing that?
joe rogan
Maybe it's the creation of a new life form.
bryan callen
But has it already happened?
Are we the result of that impulse?
That happened a long time ago.
joe rogan
I think we are the shit-throwing chimps that are going to become the nuclear physicists.
We are the shit-throwing chimps from 2001 that become Oppenheimer.
And then I think this thing that we become is integrated with technology.
It's probably some sort of a hybrid.
It's some sort of a cyborg.
bryan callen
That's wild.
joe rogan
Because I think we're already on the verge of merging.
You know, all this talk of Neuralink and all these various things.
We watched this video the other day of this guy who was Googling questions and getting answers in his head with his headpiece on.
Have you seen that thing?
unidentified
Yeah!
joe rogan
Yeah!
bryan callen
That's so crazy!
joe rogan
Incredible.
Right?
So, how long before that is...
Like, that's Pong.
And then you have the Unreal 4 engine in 2023 that looks like a movie.
How long before that technology gets to the point where it's just supremely advanced?
And we literally are like gods.
bryan callen
But my question really is also the idea that that's engineering.
Right?
That's a tool.
joe rogan
It's innovation.
bryan callen
But there's engineering.
So there are two aspects to it.
One is getting information faster and stuff, which doesn't get you close to the truth, but it gets you information faster.
There are endless facts.
But more importantly, I always wonder...
Why we are given this...
I really believe that human potential is pretty much infinite.
Whatever you can imagine and beyond, we can do.
And we are doing.
We seem to be doing this.
Think about how crazy that is.
I can wear a headset and I can do things with my mind and look up the answer.
That's insane.
That's magic.
It's crazier than magic.
But there's a way to measure that and quantify that and replicate that.
So it's not magic.
I can do it and I can tell you exactly how I get there.
Which is even crazier.
So...
What is that leading us to?
It is nudging us closer.
I think it's very significant that we're getting a better understanding of what it's like to be someone else.
We are.
It's really hard to say that a Yanomamo Indian or whoever it might be thinks about things differently than I do when I know so much about how all these human beings, like someone in Iran, someone in Jordan, laughs and cries and bleeds at the same thing I do.
You know, being prejudiced based on what that person looks like over there is becoming harder and harder to justify.
Where it was before we knew about that, we were like, well, those people over there are quote unquote savages or they're this, that and the other thing.
And I do think that we are getting a better understanding of what it's like to be each other and being nudged in the same direction.
I'm not saying we don't become tribal.
joe rogan
I think that's true, too.
bryan callen
But why?
And it's interesting to think about where that's leading us.
To what understanding?
To what understanding?
And then when we have that understanding, what are we going to do about that?
joe rogan
Right.
And are we going to pull it together?
And are the aliens here to make sure that we don't fuck it up?
bryan callen
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's the beautiful idea.
The terrible idea is that it's all us, and that it's all a big ruse, and it's all just drones that we're doing, because we don't want China and Russia to know about it, but we have insane propulsion systems that operate on gravity.
bryan callen
Yeah.
I think it is.
joe rogan
I hate to tell you.
It seems like both.
It seems like us and it also seems like there's some shit that we just don't understand.
And I don't know if those people are telling the truth.
Because if the people that are telling the truth that there's biological entities...
And this is what Jackie Gleason said that Nixon told him.
And Nixon took him, they were drinking.
You know that famous story?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
Who knows if it's true?
It's a legend.
But the legend is that Jackie Gleason and Nixon were drinking.
And that Nixon said, you want to see some fucking aliens?
And they get on Air Force One, and they fly to some Air Force base, and they go to a place where they have a crashed UFO, and they have biological beings that are in freezers.
And Jackie Gleason sees this.
And Jackie Gleason, after that, has a house built in upstate New York that looks like a UFO. He became obsessed with UFOs after that.
It was actually for sale at one point in time.
bryan callen
What the fuck?
joe rogan
Yeah, so he has this house that he had shaped like a UFO. And this is like, who knows if this is a true story, right?
Because it's like, it was kind of sort of disputed.
His ex-wife told the story or something like that.
I forget.
bryan callen
I think that kind of thing is actually impossible to keep secret.
joe rogan
No, I don't think so.
bryan callen
Really?
joe rogan
No, I don't think so at all.
bryan callen
You think generations of government bureaucrats can keep something a secret?
joe rogan
Sure, they tell the people at the very highest level know about it.
It's very few people.
It's all very compartmentalized.
They monitor everyone's phone calls, everyone's emails, everything everyone does.
bryan callen
Impossible.
joe rogan
At a top secret clearance level?
bryan callen
No way.
Impossible.
joe rogan
I don't think you're right.
bryan callen
Totally impossible.
joe rogan
You're definitely not right.
bryan callen
I think it's impossible.
joe rogan
Listen, man, they can keep secrets.
bryan callen
When?
unidentified
Which ones?
joe rogan
People at high levels of military can keep secrets.
bryan callen
Yeah, but they're always rotating out.
They're retiring, they're dying.
joe rogan
Yeah, and they probably wind up fucking Hillary Clinton and a lot of those dudes.
unidentified
Yeah.
bryan callen
Hey, listen, dude.
This is not Conspiracy Social Club.
This is the Joe Rogan experience.
joe rogan
I am not willing to relinquish the idea that they can keep that secret.
bryan callen
Well, that's because it's fun to believe in.
joe rogan
Yeah, but it's not just it's fun to believe in.
It is possible.
It's a physically possible thing to do.
Especially if you have the right people and they're indoctrinated in the right way with top-secret clearance.
And by the way, it's not like these people don't tell their friends.
And it's not like there's a bunch of stories floating around, because there are.
There's a shitload of stories floating around.
bryan callen
That's what I'm saying, but why would you, like, I would never keep that a secret.
I'd be like, hey, hey, you got fucking aliens!
joe rogan
Here's the thing.
When you have senators and congressmen who find out about this, and they find out that military contractors are the ones who have access to this stuff, Because the back engineering program has to involve someone who has the capability of recreating this.
So who would that be?
That would be the people that make jets.
If you've got someone who's making you a fucking stealth bomber and you have a crashed UFO, those are the people that you want discussing what kind of things you've recovered from a fucking alien crash and can this be replicated?
bryan callen
No.
Here's the problem with your whole theory.
joe rogan
Don't you know me, motherfucker, because you don't know.
You might be wrong.
bryan callen
This is your wrong?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
No, no, no.
Don't say you're wrong because you don't know that I'm wrong.
bryan callen
This is the problem with your theory.
unidentified
Ready?
joe rogan
Okay, go ahead.
bryan callen
I'm sorry.
And I love that you want to believe in this and so do I, but here's the problem.
joe rogan
Okay.
bryan callen
There's no law.
There's no written law that says I'm not allowed to talk about aliens.
And I mean at the top levels of clearance, like the most secret level.
There is no world where if I'm a government official and I take a bunch of pictures and I come before Congress and I go, here's my evidence.
I'm blowing the whistle.
There are real aliens.
joe rogan
You don't think they would go after you for violating your top secret clearance?
bryan callen
No, because it's not violating my top secret clearance.
But it would be.
Nope.
I don't think you're right.
Because I'd never go to jail for that.
Because I'd be like, you're going to put me in jail for exposing what everybody wants to know?
joe rogan
The whole world would be like, holy shit, you guys kept But that's assuming that you have access to that material to extract it from wherever the...
Maybe, maybe not.
Maybe those are the kind of people that wouldn't do that, Brian.
bryan callen
Listen, my friend.
joe rogan
You fucking communist.
I don't like the way you think.
bryan callen
I'm blowing...
I'm shredding your UFO things.
joe rogan
No, you're not.
You think you are, but you're just using these establishment talking points.
bryan callen
You're allowed to talk about UFOs and you never get in trouble.
joe rogan
You sound like your dad.
You sound like your dad.
bryan callen
Come on, man.
You're a CIA stooge.
joe rogan
You're a CIA stooge.
bryan callen
I'll call my dad right now.
joe rogan
And you're in here spreading propaganda to the faithful listeners.
Listen to me.
bryan callen
Listen to me.
There are no aliens.
And if there are, we'd know about it because it's not against the law.
joe rogan
If there is, you're going to come back on dressed like a clown.
bryan callen
Agreed?
Agreed.
joe rogan
That's my bets I'm making with everybody now.
I'll dress up like a clown.
bryan callen
I'll do it.
joe rogan
Okay.
bryan callen
I'll be ready.
You're going to come open for me at Cap Cities tonight?
joe rogan
I can't.
I have two shows of my own.
bryan callen
You do?
joe rogan
But I'm excited to see your shows.
bryan callen
Great.
joe rogan
You're there this weekend, Friday and Saturday.
bryan callen
I'm in Cap City this weekend.
No, tonight.
joe rogan
Tonight, Thursday.
bryan callen
Thursday, Friday, Saturday.
joe rogan
This will come out tomorrow, so it'll be Friday.
bryan callen
And then I'm in LOL Comedy Club in San Antonio, August 24, 25. 26th, then Salt Lake City, September 1 and 2, and Wise Guys.
joe rogan
Wise Guys, I love that club.
bryan callen
There it is.
Cap City's LOL Comedy Club, Wise Guys, and King Center, Saturday, September 23rd.
joe rogan
Melbourne, Australia.
My man's going over the big pond.
bryan callen
Melbourne, Florida.
unidentified
Oh.
bryan callen
Not this time.
joe rogan
I saw Melbourne.
bryan callen
King Center, Saturday, September 23rd.
joe rogan
I was like, that's a quick trip.
How are you doing that?
bryan callen
BrianKallen.com for my tickets.
unidentified
All right.
joe rogan
I love you, brother.
bryan callen
I love you too, pal.
What a great time.
joe rogan
Thanks for doing this.
Lots of fun.
unidentified
It's been a while, buddy.
joe rogan
All right.
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