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Dec. 28, 2021 - The Joe Rogan Experience
03:27:59
Joe Rogan Experience #1754 - Suzanne Santo
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j
joe rogan
01:55:22
s
suzanne santo
01:19:48
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jamie vernon
04:41
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
Joe Rogan podcast, check it out The Joe Rogan experience Train by day, Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day Cheers my friend, so good to see you You too These wildest of times Oh my god.
joe rogan
The wildest, right?
suzanne santo
I have no words for it.
joe rogan
No one does.
And your words change, and you see a lot of people that are trying to say things because they want to assure themselves, and then they want to find other people that agree with them.
Twitter is such a dangerous thing for people who are mentally unstable during these trying times.
suzanne santo
You watch people lose their minds.
Well, it's a form of escapism.
joe rogan
It is, but it's also they're trying to find some stability in a time where there is no stability.
And there's some people that are very uncomfortable with the unknown.
They're very uncomfortable with things being in a state of flux.
They don't know how this is going to work out.
And they get serious anxiety.
Some people, they're just not good under pressure.
And this is a thing where everyone's under pressure.
suzanne santo
Yes, yes.
joe rogan
So you see all these...
People that are freaking the fuck out.
suzanne santo
Oh, I know.
joe rogan
Those folks haven't had to deal with pressure.
suzanne santo
Right.
joe rogan
Think about yourself.
You've had to deal with a lot of pressure.
suzanne santo
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
unidentified
Well, I did that.
joe rogan
You thrive under pressure.
suzanne santo
I do.
And I witnessed the challenge in front of me and then I'm like, well, what the fuck are you going to do?
Are you going to freak out?
And I have a nice bandwidth for my understanding with myself that So I went through all that last year.
Like, I really, like, you know, I didn't tour at all in 2020. And so, like, I was alone a lot.
And I had to, like, work on some shit.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's rough.
suzanne santo
And, you know, what's interesting is I did this thing where I, like...
I figured some stuff out.
Because when you're on the road, you can just leave your shit.
You're just busy.
What's in front of you is a show.
And you're entertaining.
And you're exhausted.
You don't sleep that much.
And it's go, go, go, go, go.
And then when time stopped last year, I was like, oh, man, I got all this baggage.
I gotta unpack it, and I don't want to.
But I did, and it was kind of profound.
And when I decided to move to Austin, that was part of this thing that I just discovered of great change that needed to take place in my life.
And then I met the love of my life when I got here, which is crazy because...
I had just signed on to this autonomous plan of not dating anyone for nine months.
I did it for a couple months and it was awesome.
It was like the best I'd ever felt.
Making sure it was just me.
I'm not letting anybody in.
I've got something I have to do.
And then when I stopped caring about it, The stars aligned, if you will.
And I feel that way about the anxiety around my career.
The more I'm like, I have no control over what's happening.
They cancel my shows.
Whatever.
I was getting really sad about it.
I was getting really...
Anxious and depressed and then like the more I'm just like you said earlier, you know This challenge of what I can't do like It's actually kind of nice.
I'm just letting it go.
I I'll take what I can get.
joe rogan
I see what you're saying You know like you found like a balance in yourself and then you may met someone like that's that's like the if you would talk to like a psychologist clearly I'm not one of those but if you could I would give you some bad advice I'd be like, fucking suck it up!
Definitely be the worst psychologist ever.
But I think they would all tell you that that's when you're going to make your healthiest choices because you're comfortable with yourself.
It's like when people get desperate, right?
That's one of the things like an attractive person could be desperate and it makes them unattractive.
unidentified
Totally.
joe rogan
It's the weirdest thing about human nature.
We can't attribute it all to the shape of a face or the shape of a body.
There's something about a person, the way they hang out, the way they talk to you.
You're not compatible with everybody.
And some people, they just have a hard time syncing up, and they come off desperate.
And then everybody gets grossed out.
Do you know that there's a thing...
suzanne santo
I've really struggled with that.
joe rogan
Have you?
suzanne santo
On the receiving end of, like, feeling like I owe people that energy.
joe rogan
Well, you're very kind.
That's why.
suzanne santo
You're a very kind person.
And I'm getting better at saying no.
But that was, like, a really hard thing for me.
To not, like, just, like, you know, run myself ragged trying to be whatever someone expected of me.
When at the end of the day I was like, I don't like this.
I'd rather remove myself from the situation.
But I'm a late bloomer there.
joe rogan
No one really knows how to do it because whoever you are now, hopefully, no matter how old you are when you listen to this, whoever you are now is the best version of yourself.
But we don't all start at the same starting point.
It's a hard thing to recognize, but as I've gotten older and hopefully a little bit wiser, I've recognized that in more and more people.
We all start at a different spot.
And everybody's got their own challenges and weird fucking journey.
So what it takes for you to just get your shit together, and even if it's not in comparison to how you have your shit together in 10 years, you know, hopefully you'll be better at it in 10 years.
But we're all like, ah!
suzanne santo
Well, it's that waiting thing.
That's where you get fucked up.
Because, like, if I'm waiting for the success I've always wanted or the return I want to see on my hard work, I'm going to be miserable.
Mm-hmm.
So, like, the choice is, well, what are you going to do with that worry or that energy?
And so, and I mentioned this earlier, like, I have to create.
I have to create.
I have to make music.
And wherever that lands, wherever that music goes, you know, obviously I have some say in it, but a lot of it isn't up to me.
Especially now, since everything's digital and, you know, it just goes where it goes.
You know, if it goes viral or whatever that means anymore.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, at least you can create.
Imagine being a crazy actor and not being able to work for a year.
You can't act.
There's some people that they have to do whatever it is they do, whether it's acting or comedy or whatever, singing.
They feel like that's them.
That's their identity.
And if you take away their identity for a whole year, People can really struggle with who the fuck they are.
You don't get the thing that you love to do you can't do.
Whatever it is.
So many things were taken away from people.
So many things that people enjoyed doing.
Live performance was a big one, right?
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
So we all went kind of crazy.
unidentified
Yeah.
suzanne santo
Yeah, they took our medicine away.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Isn't it weird?
First of all, you realize, A, that that can happen.
And then when it keeps happening for long periods of time, you start going, wait a minute, why am I giving up agency to other humans that are making poor choices?
Poor choices for the economy, poor choices socially, poor choices for how we look at life and risk.
And then how much faith are we putting in pharmaceutical companies?
suzanne santo
Now all of a sudden you have to lift a finger.
You have to stop being a baby and you have to actually do your work.
Have an understanding and have discernment.
And a lot of us don't have that.
joe rogan
You just can't give up control.
The thing that everybody's worried about now is us moving into some sort of a digital social passport system.
That is 100% possible.
That can happen.
We have to be really careful about that.
And people are like, why would that be such a bad idea?
Who says that?
People do.
People are saying it.
Regardless of how you feel about vaccines, the real problem is having a mandate.
The real problem is telling someone you have to do something.
Even if you're right, the real problem is telling someone that they have to do something.
This one's a weird one.
suzanne santo
Especially when there's no proof that any of this works.
joe rogan
Well, there's proof that it works.
The vaccines, when they're working on people, definitely seem to improve their outcomes.
They definitely make whatever the illness is.
They make it less severe.
But so does being in shape.
So does having a high level of vitamin D. I'm not saying it imparts the same amount of protection, but it's a protection that's ignored.
They know now, and they've known for a while, that COVID attacks fat cells.
There was a New York Times piece about it the other day.
But you don't hear this expressed over and over again in the news like you hear all these other things.
Buy like a new pill coming out or a new this or you got to do that or make sure you do this and triple mask and whatever it is.
They don't tell you, well, here's a sign that for sure, if you're overweight, we should fix this collectively.
We should talk about this the same way we talk about all these other pandemics.
Let's talk about the pandemic of people just not being healthy.
suzanne santo
Yeah, well, you know, that becomes this touchy subject of like the way, you know, be yourself is celebrated and, you know, being healthy is anti.
It's very weird.
It's very backwards.
joe rogan
The be yourself is celebrated.
I get it because here's the thing.
Most people that are like severely overweight are like, again, not a psychologist.
But I would say there's issues other than just the physical that make you want to eat that much food.
It's a crazy addiction.
And I don't think it's much different than all the other ones, the gambling ones or whatever drug ones.
It's a similar thing, I think.
And you can't just expect people to fix it on their own.
So this whole like, you know, you're okay being you movement, you're beautiful as you are, it's good psychologically for these people because the conceit is that these people are damaged.
That something's wrong.
That's why you've eaten all this horrible food, whether it's something's wrong education-wise or whether it's something wrong emotionally, like someone hurt your feelings and put you in a bad place in life, or you grew up in a household that's shitty or that has poor food choices.
Whatever the fucking thing is, obviously you and I are different than those folks.
But why?
We should definitely appreciate each other, but we all should be honest.
We should say, we can all fix this.
We can fix this body thing.
suzanne santo
Yeah, it's difficult.
joe rogan
For some people at least.
suzanne santo
I know, I know.
And it's very sensitive.
And at the end of the day, some of the people I care about that are overweight, it's...
It's difficult because it feels like you're watching someone hurt themselves in a way that there are other choices for healthier outcomes.
But it's weird.
It's such a taboo.
You can't really say anything.
joe rogan
No, you can't.
It's really tricky.
People get super, super offended by it.
It's not that much different than a cigarette thing.
But if you tell cigarette people, they're like, I know, I know.
suzanne santo
Well, it's sort of the question is like, are you happy?
And if they are, then like, fucking hands off, not my call.
And if you say, no, I'm not.
I'm actually really uncomfortable or I'm miserable.
Well, then there's another conversation to be had.
But again, it's like, it's so much easier to say that to an alcoholic.
You know, be like, hey, I see you really destroying yourself and I love you and I'm here for you.
What can I do to help you?
You know, it's so much more socially acceptable for that.
Right.
joe rogan
But it's yeah, it's a body shaming issue.
That's it.
suzanne santo
You know, that's not the case.
I would never do that to anybody.
It's not about shame.
It's about concern and care for your well-being.
You know, like that's that's it.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
The bad feeling is what we're trying to avoid, right?
We're trying to avoid people having a bad feeling.
I think there's ways to address the positive aspects of losing weight and not so much the negative aspects of being fat.
You could explain to people and they could do the math themselves.
You could tell them that they probably could use it, but let them figure it out on their own.
But the most important thing is get everybody fucking doing something You know, I realized this just over the last few days because, you know, over Christmas break, family was over and there was a lot of food and I ate like a whole pie.
suzanne santo
What kind of pie?
unidentified
I ate so much.
joe rogan
I ate so much.
I ate everything.
I ate pumpkin.
I ate cherry.
suzanne santo
So you ate more than one pie.
joe rogan
Oh, no, I ate a lot.
suzanne santo
Collectively.
joe rogan
Suzanne, I have a real problem with food.
So I understand people that are overweight.
suzanne santo
Yeah, but you've got the metabolism of a dragon, so you're fine.
joe rogan
But Work it off and I do also I trick I do little tricks like I don't eat for like, you know 24 hours after I eat something horrible like that Yeah, I let it burn through my system, but I'm so stupid cuz I pay the Punishment like I felt like shit for the rest of the day.
I felt like shit headache or anything Exhausted I was like this is what I felt like just I had a whole pie in me.
At least one pie.
I had so much pie.
Did you work out too hard?
suzanne santo
Did you take the day off?
joe rogan
No.
It was family over.
There was too much high.
How's everybody doing?
Having fun.
But just a few days.
If I just go three days with no working out, I start to feel like no working out and eating pie.
I feel like shit.
suzanne santo
You feel awful.
joe rogan
That's just three days.
suzanne santo
All your chemicals are fucked up.
Your endorphins are not getting your serotonin and all that stuff.
joe rogan
It's basically like pulling the cork out of the bottom of your bathtub.
And all the fucking you juice just runs down through the drain.
suzanne santo
All the you juice and the pie and the key lime.
joe rogan
Whatever makes you you.
It just all runs on E. It's like...
Because you are you when you're feeling your best, right?
That's the best version of you.
You definitely don't have that after you eat a pie.
suzanne santo
Well, here's how I feel about those designated food party days and drinking.
Like, I have to tell myself in advance, you're going to eat like a dickhead.
And just, no complaining.
Like, you know what you're going to do.
I'm a sweet, salty kind of gal, so I'll, like, eat the pie and then eat some Fritos.
But then I want the sweet stuff again.
And it's a cycle.
And I just, like, I have to, like, prepare myself and know, like, this is the day, and then tomorrow you're, you know, back at it.
But it's, yeah, I feel you.
I felt like I had a headache on Christmas because I ate so many cookies.
And, yeah, no, I was just like...
joe rogan
It's poison!
suzanne santo
You know?
joe rogan
It's poison!
suzanne santo
I know.
joe rogan
Your body's like, what the fuck is this?
Isn't it funny that we've created something that almost everybody loves that's terrible for you?
Like a cookie.
Like one of them giant ones.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
Oh my god, but they're so good.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
Well, it's funny.
Like, cultures are, you know, wrapped around food in this way that's really interesting.
Like, you know, you go to the South or, like, you know, New Orleans, you get beignets and stuff like that.
joe rogan
Yeah.
suzanne santo
You, like, you have to get a donut and you're over here.
joe rogan
Gotta get barbecue in Austin.
suzanne santo
Yeah, yeah.
And, like, that shit fucks me up, man.
Like, I love it, but I have a super sensitive stomach.
And, you know, it's interesting how...
You have these obligations sometimes in that way, whereas no one's putting a gun to your head.
joe rogan
No, but if you want pizza and it's right there, you want that pizza.
Did you see the video that I put on my Instagram?
unidentified
I did.
suzanne santo
That was hilarious.
joe rogan
The little baby eating pizza for the first time.
Jamie, have you seen that?
unidentified
It doesn't get more honest than that.
joe rogan
How adorable is that?
That little face.
Can you play it for me?
That little face.
Because this is not an act.
This is a baby baby.
It's a baby baby.
suzanne santo
That's a genuine...
joe rogan
So when she rolls her eyes back while she's eating that pizza, it's like no one feels happier.
suzanne santo
No one taught her how to do that.
joe rogan
No one taught her how to do that.
But it's so bliss.
Because if that was a commercial for your pizza, holy shit would you make a fucking billion dollars off that pizza.
Just from that ad.
suzanne santo
You know, I was just telling my man yesterday, I said I never order pizza.
And I grew up, you know, my family owned an Italian restaurant.
So we had pizza like four times a week.
And pasta.
And it was...
Part of our lives.
But I always had stomach aches.
But I'd still eat it.
And my mom would be like, you're faking.
And I'd be like, no, my stomach really hurts.
And to this day, if I have that white bleach flour gluten in a pizza or a burrito, I'm totally fucked.
I'm incapacitated for a few hours.
joe rogan
It's glue.
suzanne santo
I know.
unidentified
It's glue.
joe rogan
You're eating glue.
suzanne santo
Yeah, I know.
So, you know, I realized that there was this time in my life where I ate that stuff all the time, and I love it.
But it's just, you know, if I want to suffer, I will eat it.
And I'll probably enjoy it for a minute before it all goes downhill.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Have you ever had any of that?
There's a certain kind of grain...
suzanne santo
I can do some gluten-free sometimes.
It's okay.
joe rogan
But there's a certain type of gluten.
There's a certain type of flour.
What is it called?
Double O flour?
Is that what it's called?
It's a non-genetically modified flour.
suzanne santo
Okay.
joe rogan
Now, again, I'm a moron, but I've...
Mayor Keenan told me this, and he actually grows food.
He grows wine and makes his own wine and shit.
He's got a vineyard, Caduceus Vineyard.
He knows his shit.
And he said that essentially what used to happen was they used to have a very low yield grain.
And over the years of fucking with it, they've turned it into a very high-yield grain, but it has more of these glutens in it, whatever a complex gluten is.
suzanne santo
But is that specifically to the US? Because, you know, you go to Europe, they have different flour.
joe rogan
Let's watch this baby.
Yeah, no, their flour is different.
I don't think their flour is as modified as ours.
Watch this little baby.
unidentified
Watch this.
Just takes a bite Mmm That baby's That's just pure bliss Look at this baby.
joe rogan
Look at her close her eyes and lean her head back.
It's amazing.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
It's so adorable.
suzanne santo
I know it.
joe rogan
Oh my god, that's pure bliss.
unidentified
That baby's like, yes, yes.
suzanne santo
And this is where it starts.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Pure bliss.
unidentified
Like, oh.
When she was doing that with her lips, too, like, oh, Jesus, this is so good.
suzanne santo
I mean, you can't really blame her.
joe rogan
I just love when things are like that when you see a pure expression.
You can't teach a kid that.
That's who she is.
suzanne santo
She's not putting it on.
joe rogan
She didn't know how it looks when she makes that face.
She just ate the pizza and she's like, oh yeah.
suzanne santo
Kids are amazing like that though with joy.
You know what's amazing about kids is like They can take a compliment.
Like, when you say, hey, that's pretty cool, and they're like, yeah, I'm the best, you know?
And, like, no adult would ever say that, because whenever we get a compliment, we always say something bad about ourselves.
joe rogan
Right, right, right.
suzanne santo
At least I do.
It's something I've had to work on, is say thank you, instead of, like, but kids are, you know, their joy is, until, you know, they reach a certain age, or, you know, hopefully nothing bad happens, but, like, the joy in them is amazing.
It's so beautiful.
joe rogan
Well, they haven't been fucked up yet.
suzanne santo
Yeah, right.
Don't I know it.
joe rogan
They all have different levels of whatever the fuck it is to be a person, different levels of personality factors.
They're wired in from birth.
Like, you could have, like, five kids from the same family, and they all have totally different personalities.
suzanne santo
Oh, my God, I know.
joe rogan
Okay, but what is that?
suzanne santo
You have siblings?
joe rogan
What is...
Yeah, just one sister.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But, like, what is that?
Like, what makes someone...
suzanne santo
I think it's so many things.
joe rogan
There's fucking so many factors of what it means to be a person.
suzanne santo
It's nature and nurture, and I think there's some spirituality involved sometimes.
unidentified
Oh, Jesus.
suzanne santo
I know, I know.
And, like, which makes it, like...
Equally as, I don't want to say as exciting, but like terrifying as a, you know, a parent to think like, oh my God, this one time I said this thing and then the kid was never the same, you know, or, you know, I guess you kind of have to leave that up to, you know, fate or whatever.
But it is fascinating how, I mean, I would say my sisters and I were raised differently because of our different personalities and our, you know, Predispositions to whatever trouble all of us would get in, which were all very different troubles.
You know, we all did different bad stuff.
joe rogan
You have to find your bad stuff.
suzanne santo
But I was always upfront about my bad stuff.
I think that's why I'm so close with my parents.
Like, I moved to New York City when I was 16. And I was on my own when I was 17. And they were like, we believe in you.
Go get it.
Jesus Christ.
You know, I was like...
Going to bars and stuff.
That's so great.
17. They let me go to Tokyo when I was 16 for six weeks.
Holy shit.
Because I used to be a model when I was a teenager.
And I look back and I'm like, I can't believe they let me go.
Let me turn this down because it's buzzing.
joe rogan
Yeah, if everybody's like, something wrong, fucking Jamie.
It's not Jamie's fault.
suzanne santo
That was me and my practice amp.
It wouldn't have made it to the mix.
jamie vernon
It wouldn't have made it to the mix.
I could have taken that out.
joe rogan
You could have?
Really?
suzanne santo
You're such a pro.
joe rogan
He's a pro.
suzanne santo
I know.
joe rogan
The mix.
Well, we'll just take it out anyway, folks.
There's a little bit of feedback.
suzanne santo
Yeah, they let me go to Tokyo, and I was...
Going to the club every night.
I'm not a joke.
I was hanging out with the Yakuza.
They would take me and my friends out to dinner, but nothing funny.
I came back.
I remember I landed at the Cleveland Hopkins Airport and I was like, Mom, Dad, I drank a lot.
I tried ecstasy.
I'm still a virgin.
I had a great time.
Thank you for letting me go.
I didn't get into too much trouble.
I was.
I was very open with them about who I was, and so I think we had a trust.
I had values, even though I had all this freedom.
I wasn't going to be a hoe.
I wasn't going to be stupid.
I had things that I really cared about that were important to me.
As much fun as I liked to have, I still felt responsible.
joe rogan
The idea that you should coddle your children is being challenged all the time.
And Jonathan Haidt, he's one of those guys that's into free-range children, like let your kids figure their way home.
suzanne santo
Oh, shit.
joe rogan
Yeah, like let your nine-year-old figure their way home in New York City.
suzanne santo
That's rough.
joe rogan
Well, I mean, it is, but I did it when I was a kid.
I mean, I think the world's more...
I mean, the question is, is the world a more dangerous place now, or do we perceive it as a more dangerous place because we know the danger now?
Like, the danger was always there.
It just wasn't as highlighted.
Like, I almost got molested twice when I was a kid.
suzanne santo
Yeah, I remember you telling the story.
joe rogan
It's scary.
Because I think if someone wasn't there that recognized it at the library when I was, I guess I was like eight or nine or something like that.
I'm not sure how old I was.
I don't totally remember.
But if that lady wasn't there and she didn't see that man trying to escape with me, who knows?
I mean, I might have been dead.
Who the fuck knows?
I have no idea.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
But did you have the discernment at the time that you were in trouble or did you think you were going to go play with some puppies?
joe rogan
I thought I was going to play with puppies.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
I thought he was going to show me some books.
I was completely naive.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
I think I told you about this once too.
We were pretty...
I grew up in Parma, Ohio until middle school, which is pretty blue-collar, so you get a lot of working folks and a lot of alcoholics.
There were total pedophile stuff on the street, and you'd just be like, oh, don't go to that house.
It was just common knowledge to know where your My understanding of trouble was.
And I feel like, actually the song I want to sing to you is about that.
And I had that revelation not that long ago about how fortunate I feel to have had this upbringing where I experienced real life and I wasn't coddled.
I mean, I have great parents, and they took really good care of us.
We're so loved and supported.
But, like, I have the opportunity to be outside a lot.
And, like, you know, play outside, be home by dinner.
Like, people don't do that anymore.
They have playdates.
They have, like, supervised, you know, like, it's not...
I mean, I'm sure in some places your kids can go play outside.
But, I mean, like...
There was this kid who would walk the tree line of our backyard every day in army fatigues and a BB gun.
And I always got a sick feeling every time I saw him.
And at one point our babysitter told us that he tried to force himself on her.
And, like, she lived with her grandfather, so if that doesn't tell you, like, that's a tough situation.
So I remember my parents going to talk to her grandfather, and, like, years later, this guy, like, was a convicted serial rapist, like, dozens of women in the greater Cleveland area.
And I used to see him every day looking out the back kitchen window, walking across our backyard.
And, like, I mean...
It's just, you know, I look back at that stuff and it's very sad, but it's also like, but I knew something, you know, obviously, like, something's wrong with that kid, you know?
joe rogan
Right, but you could have got in a bad situation, right?
suzanne santo
Well, there was, I think I told you this on the podcast.
This was a story I told a long time ago.
There was another kid who, so when I was little, I was, I still am, but I was obsessed with fishing and You said when I was little, but I still am.
I'm still obsessed with fishing.
joe rogan
I love fishing.
suzanne santo
I love to fish.
joe rogan
You're still little.
suzanne santo
In some ways, Joe, I am.
joe rogan
Well, I hope we all keep a little bit of that.
unidentified
Yeah, I'm like, you know, I'm an excitable adult, so I feel like a little kid sometimes.
joe rogan
I think that's good.
I think that helps.
I really do.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
So I was playing in the backyard by myself.
Specifically, I was trying to make a seesaw, but I was by myself, so you really need two for that.
Like you need someone on the other end.
And I didn't have any shoes on.
And this one boy, I can't remember his name, but he was my sister's age.
So he was like three or four years older than me.
So he was like a boy, like, you know, adolescent.
I think I was like nine.
And he came out of the woods and he said, Suzanne, there's a largemouth bass in the creek.
You've got to come see it.
And I was like, holy shit, let me get my shoes.
And I mean, I was so excited, like nothing would have stopped me from going to see a largemouth bass in the creek.
And I ran up to my room and I put my shoes on and I don't think my parents were home.
I think my sisters were there.
And as I started to run out the door, like there was something in me that like I got clotheslined.
unidentified
And just was gripped with terror.
suzanne santo
And I can't explain it.
I can't tell you.
No one said anything to me because, like, I was a pretty determined kid.
So if someone told me something cool was happening, I was going to be there.
And I look back and obviously there's no chance that kind of fish would be in the creek.
It was just crayfish and, you know, like, nothing.
There's no fish in the creek.
And, you know, later this kid was, like, herding animals in his treehouse.
I remember he, like, blew up a squirrel.
And I really think that that was a powerful moment in my life where it could have gone another way.
Because I do believe that the boy would have hurt me.
But yeah, I mean, it's pretty crazy.
joe rogan
When I think about the time when I was in the library, as an adult, thinking back on it, how crazy it is that someone got to a point where they were essentially my age, or maybe a little younger.
I don't remember how old the guy was.
He might have been in his 20s for all I know.
I was a little kid.
It was just a man.
That kind of person exists where they go to places where kids hang out and they try to catch strays.
suzanne santo
Crazy.
joe rogan
They try to catch some stray kid that's not under protection, not under the watchful eye of a parent, just wandering around.
suzanne santo
Well, I mean, that's our version of...
We have this version of bad guys, but you go to Europe and the abductions and human trafficking is through the roof.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's terrifying because they find people in basements and shit.
There was a woman who just got...
She was missing and they found her in a basement.
So you can find the story.
They found her in a basement covered in coal.
Some guy had grabbed her and put her in his fucking basement.
I think she was gone for a couple days.
What is the story?
What is the...
suzanne santo
I think the world is different.
I mean...
joe rogan
Look at this.
Missing Utah college student found alive and covered in coal in man's basement.
Utah college student was found nearly 90 miles from campus in the home of a man who has been charged with kidnapping and rape, police said.
Holy fucking shit!
suzanne santo
How long was she there?
joe rogan
Five day manhunt for missing 19 year old college student concluded with police finding her alive after a harrowing ordeal.
A Utah man is now in custody.
Holy shit.
She was found naked and covered in coal in a coal storage area of a home in Loa, Utah on December 18th.
Oh my god.
suzanne santo
You remember the girls in Cleveland.
I mean, not to keep this, this is pretty dark, we're having a dark conversation here, but I was home when they were found.
joe rogan
Right, there was like 10 girls.
suzanne santo
Three girls.
joe rogan
Three girls?
I made it up.
suzanne santo
I made up the extra sex.
The one girl had been there for, I believe, 13 years, but the two were there for 10. Oh my God.
But, I mean, it's crazy.
I was home when they were discovered.
unidentified
Oh my God.
suzanne santo
It was insane.
It was...
joe rogan
Three women missing for a decade.
Why did I think it was 10?
And a six-year-old?
Yeah, because one of the girls had a child.
Oh, and he kept the baby with the women in the cage?
suzanne santo
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
Holy fuck.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
So, I guess...
unidentified
Oh, my God.
suzanne santo
I guess there is a...
Yeah...
We do have to keep our head on a swivel.
joe rogan
Well, this is what's crazy, Suzanne.
What's crazy is that this, even though as horrible as it is, that it exists in 2021, the thing is, it's rare.
That's what's weird.
If you look at human history, I mean, I think people have been doing that kind of thing to people forever.
suzanne santo
For a long time.
unidentified
Forever.
joe rogan
Just take it.
Just grabbing people, snatching them.
We're like, you know, just an advanced primate.
suzanne santo
But I think with that said, I feel, and maybe I don't want to toot my own horn here, but I feel like there's a degree of my instinct that I have now.
That like, you know, ooh, this feels familiar, or this doesn't feel right.
And I've gotten really good at just going with it, even if I'm wrong.
I'd rather be wrong and look like a crazy person than right and in trouble.
joe rogan
Yeah, but you probably wouldn't be wrong.
You're pretty easygoing.
I think you recognize patterns and you recognize squirrely thinking from a person where someone just seems off.
Something about the reaction seems off and you're like, I gotta get out of here.
suzanne santo
I'll see you later.
joe rogan
Well, people can pretend to have their shit together for a long time.
Like, people can trick you for a long time.
suzanne santo
I know.
joe rogan
Especially if you're sweet, if you're a nice person.
suzanne santo
I hate that.
joe rogan
Trying to make friends, and then you let someone into your midst, and you go, oh, you're fucking crazy.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
That is a lot of work, huh?
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
You just dumped all this work on me.
Like, they'll sell you something.
It's like the previews, and then you watch the movie, and you're like, hey.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
This is not the movie.
suzanne santo
Why did I pay $5.99 for this crap?
This is a totally different movie.
joe rogan
Yeah.
suzanne santo
Oh, man.
Well, you want to hear a song?
joe rogan
Yeah, I do want to hear a song.
suzanne santo
I want to change course.
How's this?
Is that too loud?
Okay.
You know, it's funny.
This is called Mercy and your nurse outside.
Mercy.
What a gem.
joe rogan
She's awesome.
suzanne santo
guitar solo
guitar solo
it could be any one of us with a broken mind Yeah, it could be any one of us with a broken mind And I learned about mercy I learned about mercy For everyone else
And for myself, I learned about mercy Yeah, I was just a kid then Skinning my knees in Woodbury Hills Trying to make a little sense But my heart got crushed when the cat got killed
Was it mean With his keep outside and his poison milk How I learned to keep the door locked The thought of it still gives me chills And I learned about darkness I learned about darkness Heavy like sick or hidden in
a kiss I learned about darkness Sometimes I don't know how to be How to shut my mouth,
how to let things breathe And it gets so hard to see With my history standing in front of me I always fought with my sisters White knuckle and nonsense Hands
full of blisters They felt like strangers They still do now Sometimes they're saviors Sometimes they're saviors And I learned about changing I learned about changing You win some,
you lose some Cry about things that used to be fun But you're changing Yeah, we're changing Yeah, we're changing That's beautiful.
unidentified
Thanks.
joe rogan
I like it.
suzanne santo
Thank you.
Some new shit.
joe rogan
I love it.
suzanne santo
Some new shit.
You know, I just played at Antone's here in Austin.
joe rogan
I love that place.
suzanne santo
With Gary's whole band.
unidentified
Oh, shit.
suzanne santo
It was so much fun.
And then he and Nicole were there.
So we snapped.
joe rogan
That was the 15th, right?
suzanne santo
The 15th.
Yeah, it was fun.
joe rogan
I had a gig.
We got Gary to sit in with us.
Oh, really?
Well, when you guys did Midnight Rider that one time...
suzanne santo
You love it!
Don't play it!
You'll get in trouble again!
joe rogan
I don't know if we're getting in trouble now that we're on Spotify.
I think we didn't get away with it.
We got in trouble over on YouTube.
suzanne santo
I love playing with Gary.
He's just so cool.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's so cool.
But the two of you guys together, I'm telling you.
suzanne santo
It's fun.
joe rogan
That is a wild combination.
You guys should record some shit for sure.
suzanne santo
You know, we've been hanging out in the studio a little bit.
unidentified
You must.
suzanne santo
It's been fun.
joe rogan
You two together with his fucking guitar and your voice.
Holy shit.
suzanne santo
So fun.
So I got to do...
joe rogan
Dude, that was special.
unidentified
It was.
joe rogan
I really wish you guys would record that.
suzanne santo
Oh yeah, well, you know...
joe rogan
You really should record that.
Because Gary has his own sound.
Gary's one of those guys where he's so...
Like, I have no musical information.
I don't know how to play shit.
unidentified
That's not true.
joe rogan
No, no, I don't know anything.
Yeah, but you're a listener.
I'm a listener.
But what I'm saying is like...
I don't know how to play guitar.
I don't know what's involved.
I know you move your fingers.
It looks beautiful.
The sound's incredible.
But I know that some people, they can make it sing, and you hear them.
Like, Gary's one of those people.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He channels it.
joe rogan
When he plays that guitar, when he's playing that solo in Midnight Rider, I'm like, oh my god, that's Gary Clark Jr. doing Midnight Rider.
Like, if you played it for me, I'm like a sommelier at a fancy restaurant.
suzanne santo
It feels like it comes from another place.
You know what I mean?
Like, he's a real, he's like channeling something.
joe rogan
He's putting himself into his music.
That's Gary Clark Jr. That music is him.
You can hear him in the music.
It's pure.
He hits these notes where you're like, oh, that's Gary.
But everybody plays guitar.
Not everybody, but obviously it's hard to do.
suzanne santo
He has a signature.
And his voice is so good.
A month ago, was it?
A couple weeks?
Yeah, it was a month ago.
I got this call.
I was at the mall buying jeans.
And I got a call and they said, hey, can you be in Cincinnati tomorrow?
Their openers got COVID. And I was like, fuck yes.
And I got on a plane and I opened for them for two nights by myself.
And it was so much fun because one, I got to just like play music for people.
But two, they have a bubble, you know?
And I rode on the bus with them.
They have a bubble?
A bubble.
joe rogan
A COVID bubble?
suzanne santo
Yeah.
You're with the crew, you're tested every day, and don't go hang out with friends in St. Louis.
So I just got to play.
I didn't have to go out and sell merch or anything, and then just watch them.
And it was so fucking awesome.
They're so good.
The whole band.
Eric Zapata, Elijah Ford, J.J. Johnson, John Keyes.
His whole band is phenomenal.
Yeah.
joe rogan
No, he's also in touch with some amazing musicians here.
suzanne santo
I know.
joe rogan
You know, like the Peterson Brothers?
How badass are those dudes?
suzanne santo
They're so sweet.
joe rogan
They're so sweet, but they're also so fucking talented.
And you watch the two of them together, you're like, oh my god, there's two of them!
unidentified
I know.
suzanne santo
They're so nice.
joe rogan
They're so nice, but they're so talented.
And, you know, it's like Gary's music, it fits perfectly in this town, too.
You know what I mean?
It does.
suzanne santo
Well, he's from here.
You know, this is his court, you know?
joe rogan
You can tell.
Like, it fits.
suzanne santo
And it's really cool.
But he's, you know, he's such a good dude.
joe rogan
Yeah.
suzanne santo
He's the shit.
It's like, I'm such a fan that, like, you know, I want to...
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
suzanne santo
Oh, I love it.
When was this?
jamie vernon
It was 2016. It was a long time ago.
suzanne santo
It's like, who's drumming?
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
This is 2016. Yeah, it's a long time ago.
This is back when the world was real.
suzanne santo
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Back before we entered into the metaverse.
suzanne santo
You know, we're on machine time now.
It's moving so fast.
We're just always on the thing.
And I have discovered that I'm most happy when I take a lot of walks.
I go on long walks along with working out.
And when I'm reading books, like actual books.
joe rogan
Oh, so you read them while you're walking?
suzanne santo
No, no.
Those are two separate experiences.
joe rogan
Okay.
You can do them at the same time.
suzanne santo
But it brings me back to some reality within myself where I'm not like...
Caught up in a tornado of emotions from social media or my fucking email or just the news.
The minute I pick this thing up that has me on a leash, I feel like I've lost my agency and I never know what's going to happen and then I have to collect myself afterwards.
Why am I pissed off?
Oh, it's because my followers went down.
Or something stupid like that.
That's just ridiculous and it takes away from everything.
joe rogan
The problem with followers is you can see them.
You see the number.
It's kind of the craziest thing ever.
You see a number.
And that's one of the reasons why it's so addictive, right?
Like the likes.
suzanne santo
Well, yeah, you get your dopamine.
joe rogan
Yeah, very addictive.
suzanne santo
All that stuff.
joe rogan
Very addictive.
suzanne santo
But I also get my dopamine from playing Scrabble.
joe rogan
Yeah.
You got to be careful.
suzanne santo
Like real life things.
joe rogan
The problem is it's making people alter the way they think about other people.
Of course.
Because everybody's projecting this version of themselves that's so unrealistic.
suzanne santo
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Or they're being super sherry.
suzanne santo
Oh yeah.
joe rogan
Sharing a little too much.
suzanne santo
No, that's the thing too of like, you know, so I got engaged and we wanted to like post something and I was like, oh man, like I feel like, not that I'm not excited because I am, but there's something about it that I hesitated at first, but, but it, and it was beautiful.
Like we feel so good to, to share our announcement, you know, but I get a little knee-jerk with just being inundated with people's feelings all the time because most of the time there's not a solution.
You know, it's just the, I feel bad, you know, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And I get that and I have empathy, but I think there's some...
I wonder what happens when you don't share that publicly and you figure out how to heal yourself and...
joe rogan
Well, I mean, there's nothing wrong with sharing it publicly.
A lot of people, they can push aside the negativity and they can look at it in perspective.
suzanne santo
Maybe it's the victim thing that I'm really reacting to.
joe rogan
Victim thing?
suzanne santo
Like victim society.
joe rogan
Oh.
Well, I mean...
The thing about sharing something on social media that's a super positive thing.
It's just a positive thing.
It's just love.
It's just love.
suzanne santo
Great.
joe rogan
Anybody that would react in a negative way.
Because you're not just thinking like, oh, that bitch.
Or, oh, fuck him.
Or whatever.
People think we're...
It depends on how much rent they owe and...
You know, their girlfriend dumped them, they got fired from their job, and they're fucking angry.
But the fact that they can type something really mean that you could read, and for no reason, you're taking this, like, we're not designed for that.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
It's not healthy.
So it's not bad to Post something, but it is bad to read all the things that various random people think about the posting because you don't have that much time.
Every single thing that a person says to you, you at least have to consider.
You can say, oh, that person's a moron.
I don't think they're correct.
Or maybe that person's smarter than me.
Maybe I should consider what they're saying.
But when it's just random assholes and you don't know anything about them and they're saying mean stuff to you because you're posting, you got engaged to your fiance.
Why?
suzanne santo
Well, I think we're talking about a lot of things.
joe rogan
We're talking about a lot of things.
suzanne santo
I know.
joe rogan
That's that Snoop Dogg weed.
unidentified
Woo!
suzanne santo
I haven't smoked it yet, and I think I'm going to wait because I'm scared.
joe rogan
Well, it's also Buffalo Trace.
suzanne santo
Oh, yeah, it's so good.
I'll take a little more of that, by the way.
joe rogan
I know you would.
I know you would.
It's going to be one of those shows.
suzanne santo
Well, I don't want to knock on anyone that shares their feelings on social media, because I've done it, too.
unidentified
No, there's nothing wrong with it.
suzanne santo
I think it's the manner in which you're projecting yourself onto a public platform.
Sometimes it feels...
Sometimes it doesn't feel genuine, you know, as a reader.
But at the same time, I think I'm just over all of this shit.
Cheers.
Cheers.
I want to be in nature.
I just want to be out of this shit.
joe rogan
Well, we don't know how to do this, Suzanne.
I think this is the problem.
There's no...
suzanne santo
Don't judge me.
unidentified
I'm sure people are giving...
I'm going to smoke this Juul.
joe rogan
No, good.
Get in there.
I think people are giving out...
suzanne santo
Mother's milk.
joe rogan
They must be giving out classes.
Are you a nicotine addict?
suzanne santo
No, I just...
joe rogan
Is that Juul with marijuana or Juul?
suzanne santo
No, it's a Juul with nicotine.
joe rogan
Oh.
suzanne santo
Yeah, I guess I am a nicotine addict sometimes.
joe rogan
How long have you been doing that?
suzanne santo
A little while.
joe rogan
But...
You don't smoke cigarettes, do you?
That could roughen up that voice, kid.
suzanne santo
I know, it's so bad.
Be careful.
Well, this isn't good for my voice either.
unidentified
Be careful.
joe rogan
I think that's basically going to just kill your body.
suzanne santo
Do I fucking know it?
joe rogan
I don't think it's going to mess up your voice.
suzanne santo
Yeah, no, I have rules.
I'm going to put this down in like a week, and then I'll just be away.
No more.
joe rogan
I think it's probably better.
Better than a cigarette.
There's a problem that gets demonized.
When something gets demonized, I have to say, okay, are they demonizing this because it's actually bad?
Or are they demonizing this because it's a threat to profits for an established company that has a shit ton of money?
One of the things I talked to Adam Curry.
You know Adam Curry?
suzanne santo
Okay, yes.
I love No Agenda.
joe rogan
He's the best.
unidentified
He's the podfather.
suzanne santo
Yeah, I'm a big fan.
I really like him a lot.
joe rogan
If not for him, none of this would be possible.
suzanne santo
And John C. Dvorak.
I like when they have their little fights.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, they're super smart guys, and Adam is a good friend.
I love him to death.
suzanne santo
Awesome!
joe rogan
I love him to death.
One of the reasons why I came here, talking to him, he's so smart.
When he was high on Austin, I was like, okay, maybe he's on something.
But anyway, he talked to me about this, and he said a lot of this was based on a bunch of people who died, a group of kids that died from bad e-cigarettes that were actually marijuana cigarettes.
suzanne santo
Oh, he smokes these things, right?
joe rogan
I do not know if he does that anymore.
He may have in the past.
I'm not exactly sure.
He smokes a lot of weed, though.
suzanne santo
Good for him.
joe rogan
That motherfucker can throw down.
See if you can find what that story was, Jamie?
There was like, there were e-cigarette, but it was e-weed.
And so they were attributing it to vaping.
They were saying all these kids died from vaping.
And he's like, no, no, no.
It was a small group of kids that died because there was a tainted product.
And he said, I don't think I'm paraphrasing him.
I think he was saying that it's one of those things, like we talked about earlier, it's either the outrage is because something is really, really dangerous or the outrage is because something threatens profits of something else.
And I should just, out of the way, I'm 100% in favor of you buying cigarettes.
Oh, wow.
suzanne santo
Cigars.
joe rogan
I drink whiskey.
suzanne santo
It's not good for you.
When the mood strikes, I'll buy a pack, and then I'll go months without smoking.
It's just like a thing about...
It grounds me, I think.
joe rogan
But I think he was saying that we have this idea that it's really bad to vape, and it might not exactly be true.
jamie vernon
This is the CDC's website, but I remember this.
This is the vitamin E stuff they found in.
joe rogan
Okay, this is it.
Vitamin E acetate is strongly linked to EVALI outbreak.
I don't know what that means.
Vitamin E acetate has been found in product samples tested by the FDA in state laboratories and in patient lung fluid samples tested by CDC from geographically diverse states.
Vitamin E acetate has not been found in the lung fluid of people that do not have whatever EVALI is.
See if you can find that story.
There was kids that died, and they died from tainted...
jamie vernon
That's this.
joe rogan
But is there a story that says...
suzanne santo
Was there like a bacteria in there or something?
jamie vernon
I mean, this was the CDC looking into it.
They had to write this because they looked into it because it was a thing.
joe rogan
Right.
jamie vernon
It was a national issue.
joe rogan
So is this the story of the, okay, so it says at the top when you scroll up, it says outbreak of lung injury associated with the use of e-cigarette or vaping products.
I guess I'm looking for like a dumb story and this is like a page of the government CDC site.
suzanne santo
The thing is, Joe, it's really difficult to decide what's real.
You hear a story, you see a story on the internet, and maybe it's true, maybe it's not.
Like you said, it's major commerce.
joe rogan
Look at this though.
The mysterious vaping illness that's becoming an epidemic.
A surge of severe lung ailments has baffled doctors and public health experts.
Okay, here's one thing I do know.
I do know of a family who had a young son who was a teenager who died and they think it has a connection to vaping.
He got very sick and he had some sort of a lung issue.
And I gotta imagine that if you're doing it all day long, like a lot of these kids are, they're doing it all day, like if you can give a kid something where you give them, which nicotine is essentially, is it listed as a stimulant?
suzanne santo
Yes.
joe rogan
Is it a stimulant?
Yes?
Is that what they call it?
suzanne santo
Yeah, and it makes you feel so good.
joe rogan
Nicotine gives you the greatest head rush.
I love a cigar.
suzanne santo
Jamie, do you still smoke?
Good for you.
jamie vernon
I was going to add into this, which I don't know.
I know that from when this happened, whoever was getting them, or I don't know if it was a national thing, so lots of people that were getting the actual cartridges that they were putting the juice or the oil or what have you in, those were where the issues started, I think.
The cartridges themselves were bad.
joe rogan
Yes, I think they said they were contaminated or something.
There was something wrong with them, right?
jamie vernon
Right.
I remember they were saying they were coming from China.
I don't know.
joe rogan
Well, it's like everything else.
If it was regulated, like if you could only get a version of it where there was some sort of potential culprits in mystery lung illness, black market vaping products.
So this is some lung illnesses?
unidentified
Is that what it is?
joe rogan
Is that what they're saying?
jamie vernon
It got so confused because it just started popping up.
They're called popcorn lung and all sorts of weird things.
joe rogan
But here's the thing.
I think if you're doing anything like that all day long, if you're taking any mist into your body that has chemicals in it, which is essentially what those things are, those ones that look like a lunchbox and these kids are sucking on them and they make Giant clouds of smoke.
Those kids are taking in stimulants through their fucking blood vessels all day long.
They're sucking it into their lungs.
suzanne santo
All I can say is, I know if I do this too much, I don't feel well.
And that's something to be conscious of.
Like me with pie.
Yeah, like your pie.
Exactly.
joe rogan
Yeah, my situation was eating too much pie.
suzanne santo
So, you know, like right now I'm kind of like in holiday mode.
And just in general, like my cell phone, like I don't like when something has a hold on me.
I don't like when I wake up and I'm having my coffee and I'm like, where's my fucking jewel?
joe rogan
Yeah.
suzanne santo
I don't like that.
joe rogan
My boy Sturgill just switched over to that light phone.
I got a green text from him.
I'm like, what's going on, son?
suzanne santo
It's a light phone.
joe rogan
It's one of them little bullshit phones.
suzanne santo
I don't know.
Oh, you mean like a flip phone?
joe rogan
No.
It's like a phone that will let you only make phone calls and text messages.
It's a little tiny-ass phone.
You can't get along.
suzanne santo
I want in on that.
joe rogan
You ain't watching no YouTube videos.
You ain't answering emails.
suzanne santo
What a great dude.
joe rogan
Yeah, he went full light phone.
suzanne santo
That's really smart.
joe rogan
Sent in that green text.
suzanne santo
How's his quality of life, do you know?
joe rogan
I'm gonna check in a couple months when he's missing them eye messages.
He's missing them nice videos.
Because we would send each other memes.
I'm like, come on, bitch.
suzanne santo
No more memes.
joe rogan
No more memes.
suzanne santo
Sturgill out there in the woods.
joe rogan
Just handle it.
Just handle the pressure.
Just give yourself some discipline.
suzanne santo
Does it tell time?
Does he know what time it is?
joe rogan
Maybe he knows what time it is.
It's like fucking, it's barely running correctly.
suzanne santo
Do you remember the first phones, the Nokia phones with the snake game?
You know?
Anyone?
joe rogan
Snake game.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The game, yeah.
There were flip phones you'd play a game on, right?
suzanne santo
Yeah, yeah.
I used to love that thing.
joe rogan
Or the little ones, little tiny phones.
It was like a one-piece jammy.
suzanne santo
My first text message of like, what the fuck do you do with this?
And I'd just be like, hi!
joe rogan
It takes like three minutes to make a hi!
suzanne santo
It's me, Suze!
unidentified
You know?
Oh, because you'd have to be like, dot, dot, dot, H, I... It was so dumb.
joe rogan
Oh my god, look at that little cutie.
suzanne santo
That's great.
joe rogan
Smallest mobile phone, L8 star, BM70. 25 bucks.
You can buy that and you can call people with it.
I bet the battery life is like four days.
jamie vernon
The whole thing just stays in your ear.
joe rogan
The whole thing stays in your ear?
That's hilarious.
He shoved the whole thing in his fucking ear.
Is that real?
jamie vernon
I don't know.
joe rogan
No, no, that's a Bluetooth headpiece, bro.
unidentified
I don't know.
That's the whole thing.
suzanne santo
Look at it.
joe rogan
Look, see?
jamie vernon
Oh no!
joe rogan
Is this in your fucking ear?
Oh my god!
What is the battery life on this thing?
jamie vernon
A hundred hours.
joe rogan
A hundred hours?
What?
A hundred days?
suzanne santo
That's amazing.
joe rogan
And it's on T-Mobile, so everything sucks about it.
Oh, hey!
That was just a joke.
I didn't mean that.
unidentified
Oh, slam!
joe rogan
I didn't mean that, T-Mobile.
suzanne santo
Don't get mad at me.
What are you, a Verizon guy?
joe rogan
I'm nothing guy.
I love T-Mobile.
jamie vernon
Superior battery.
suzanne santo
You love T-Mobile?
joe rogan
It was just a joke.
It was a joke.
I had to do it.
It was right there.
jamie vernon
Oh, I was not rolling.
120 hours on standby.
joe rogan
That's the tiniest phone I've ever heard of in my life.
suzanne santo
Are you on your phone a lot?
joe rogan
Too much, for sure.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But not a lot.
Not like a ridiculous amount.
But most of it has zero to do with me.
I'm just like watching.
Most of it's YouTube videos.
suzanne santo
Right.
joe rogan
And maybe books on tape if I'm driving.
suzanne santo
Well, that's different.
Books on tape, you're learning something.
I have no...
joe rogan
Not the kind of books I'm learning.
suzanne santo
What are you listening to?
Racy novels?
unidentified
I'm not learning shit.
joe rogan
I'm not learning shit.
No.
suzanne santo
Just kidding.
joe rogan
No, I have listened to quite a few novels.
I do enjoy novels.
You know what I enjoy about novels?
Is that they have an actor read it, but they have the guy do the girl voice.
suzanne santo
Oh yeah, that's funny.
joe rogan
It's hilarious.
Like, James, where are we going?
You're like a grown-ass man.
Do a girl voice, and you have to, like, the suspension of disbelief has to kick in.
Yeah, that's totally a really hot girl.
He's not even trying.
suzanne santo
You know, but sometimes it's done really well.
I'm listening to Hemingway right now.
The Sun Also Rises.
Really great.
joe rogan
Oh, but does he do a girl voice in that?
suzanne santo
It's read by William Hurt, and he does all these accents.
unidentified
Oh.
suzanne santo
And it's really well done.
Yeah.
But I think, yeah, that's funny.
You know, when I did a couple tours by myself, where I was driving like 10, 12 hours a day by myself, and I was, like, the thing that kept me going were racy novels.
Right.
Yeah, you get caught up in it, right?
And I'd be like, I'd be so into it that I'd like be listening when I got to my hotel, but I'd be like, just kiss her!
unidentified
You know, like pounding on the dashboard, like I was so invested in it.
suzanne santo
And yeah, you know what?
I'm just, it is what it is.
You know, I still maintain my dignity.
joe rogan
There's nothing wrong with that.
Girls, for whatever reason, are into pornographic literature, but they're not into visual pornographic stuff.
Some girls are.
Pardon me.
You're right.
I'm generalizing.
But the point is, this is what I can say generally, is that one thing exists in the female culture that doesn't exist in the male culture, and that's written pornography.
suzanne santo
Sure.
joe rogan
Like, books that are...
suzanne santo
I don't know.
Comic books, though.
Comic books can get pretty romantic.
Yeah, but they're visual.
Well, yeah, that's true.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm just saying, like, just, like, Shades of...
What is it?
Fifty Shades of Grey?
suzanne santo
You know what it's called.
joe rogan
I do.
I just forgot it in the moment.
suzanne santo
Come on.
unidentified
You've been watching it.
What was that called back then?
joe rogan
It's tattooed in my ass.
unidentified
What?
jamie vernon
It was, like, letters...
It wasn't letters together, but it was, like, penthouse letters.
joe rogan
Yeah, penthouse letters.
There was definitely some of that where dudes just jerked off to, I'm sure.
However...
Girls have entire relationships with like perverts like Fifty Shades of Grey or vampires like the fucking Twilight series.
unidentified
Totally.
joe rogan
That was literally about girls having a sexual relationship with a vampire.
suzanne santo
Right.
joe rogan
Which is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard of in my life.
suzanne santo
Well, you know, first of all, there was romance.
There was romance involved.
unidentified
He was dead!
suzanne santo
And then she became a vampire too.
Sorry, spoiler.
joe rogan
Spoiler alert.
But my point is that it became a thing for girls, to the point where it made guys angry.
Like, guys got angry at Twilight.
It was really weird.
It was weird.
suzanne santo
The thing is, so I can speak to my adolescent self on that, and the romance involved, it wasn't sexual.
I mean, eventually it was, but I read the books as a youngster.
And then I watch the movies.
And, you know, that's a lot different from like an actual racy novel.
joe rogan
Right.
suzanne santo
You know, it was like teen romance drama.
joe rogan
Right, right, right, right.
Yeah, that's not a good example.
The better example is Fifty Shades of Grey.
unidentified
Sure.
Sure.
joe rogan
Twilight is a good example of romantic notions where women are looking for some vicious fucking killer that doesn't kill them.
Which is weird, but real.
That's one of the reasons why women want to marry serial killers.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
Oh, it's a big thing.
suzanne santo
What?
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a huge thing.
Like Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker.
I'm sorry.
This is news to me.
Ted Bundy.
They get all these marriage proposals from women.
A lot of them are hot, too.
It's crazy.
And they find guys that are in jail for killing women.
And they want to marry those guys.
And they send them pictures of themselves nude.
And they try to do all kinds of things to get into romantic relationships with guys who are serial killers of women.
It's really common.
It's like...
suzanne santo
I wonder what the Jungian take is on that one.
joe rogan
Right.
Let me think about that for a second.
Whatever it is, it's some weird thing that happens where a woman wants to align herself with someone who's willing to cross the line.
Like, the line of civility and civilization and community is assassination.
It's murder.
Someone's willing to, like, just go out there and do the wildest shit you can do is end a person's life, and it might be her life.
So they align themselves with this guy.
suzanne santo
I feel like that would be like an interpretation of power in some way, obviously, because if you have the power and the gumption to end someone's life, that's a specified brand of power.
joe rogan
Right.
suzanne santo
So, and, you know, I'll be honest, there's a lot of betas out there.
And, you know, I think that there's an imbalance of Actually, an egregious imbalance in our feminine and masculine social structure.
So, I mean, I'm not into serial killers, disclaimer, but I think I could understand a specific kind of woman that really needed a specific kind of energy, which is fucked up.
I mean, there's a lot of therapy in there.
Yeah.
I think that, you know, with this imbalance, a lot of us, like, not myself anymore, because I really did find my king, and he's something else.
And I've never felt this balance in my life, to be honest with you, because he's really such a man in so many ways in his intellect, but he's also...
He's so kind and sensitive.
joe rogan
He's jacked, too.
suzanne santo
He's jacked, too.
He's really jacked.
Nick, that's you.
That's a little bit important.
Shout out to Nick.
Shout out to Nick.
I'll speak for myself.
I've been alone for a long time, and I've been lonely for a long time.
And I've been very autonomous in this way where I feel like I've had to be very masculine and feminine in the sense of just taking care of myself.
And it's really...
joe rogan
Masculine is like protecting yourself?
suzanne santo
Yeah, yeah.
And like me looking out for me.
joe rogan
Right.
You have to be hard.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
A little bit.
suzanne santo
And like in so many ways, being a musician, touring, and like just like, you know, being the only woman in a room full of men all the time.
But, you know, it's really since I met Nick and he really is like my match.
Like we are just, we were made for each other.
I get to be more of a woman now than I've ever been, and it's so cool.
Like, I love it.
joe rogan
Do you think that...
First of all, that's awesome.
I'm super happy for you.
But do you think that this is happening with people with, like, this sort of erosion of sexuality in terms of, like...
We have a divide between men and women sometimes in this country, for whatever weird reason.
And we also have a bunch of people that don't want to identify as either a man or a woman.
And I was talking to someone recently, where we were discussing this idea of where does...
Where does human biology go to next?
If we used to be some sort of cave person, and then we eventually became people on the internet, where does it go next?
Because it's going somewhere.
suzanne santo
Well, technically, we have all the marks of a collapsed society with our obsession with sexuality and all the things that are...
joe rogan
Do you know who Douglas Murray is?
suzanne santo
Yeah.
The Madness of Crowds.
joe rogan
Yes.
Amazing.
suzanne santo
You know, a lot of my life has changed in so many ways, but specifically my politics and my belief in, you know, where I was before and where I am now, which is really in the middle.
I'm really in the taint.
Of all the stuff.
joe rogan
I think the taint is where civility lies.
suzanne santo
Well, you know, Douglas Murray, man, the madness of crowds is...
joe rogan
It's genius.
suzanne santo
It's genius.
joe rogan
And the thing about Murray is, like, he's got an interesting get-out-of-jail-free pass, too, because he's gay.
suzanne santo
Because he's gay and conservative.
joe rogan
And he's conservative and gay.
They don't know what the fuck to do with him.
But he also says what he thinks.
And there's a lot of people that just can't do that anymore for whatever reason.
But one of the things that he said about...
Today said, if you look at past civilizations, whenever they were about to collapse, whether it's ancient Rome, ancient Greece, they got affixed on gender.
Gender became a giant issue.
Yeah, gender.
But sexuality, too.
It's like all of it.
It's like chaos.
There's something that happens where there's like the...
Sort of like dissolving of boundaries of everything.
Like throwing society out the window, lighting it all on fire, but with no plan of the future.
And then on top of that, people start questioning their sexuality, their gender.
It becomes more common to say, why am I doing it this way?
And it becomes more common for people to realize that this way, the traditional way, makes me feel like shit.
I don't want to do it.
I want to wear a dress.
I want to have sparkles in my eyes.
That's fucking cool too.
But I am with you in the middle of this.
I kind of lean more left socially with almost everything.
With almost everything.
suzanne santo
Me too.
joe rogan
The only thing that fucks me up is the idea of accountability and discipline.
I think that one of the reasons why people are not as happy as they could is because there's some of us out there that are not putting in the amount of effort and time to take care of our bodies.
In terms of whether it's even just meditation or exercise or something, that requires discipline.
And sometimes you can't just be nice to people and expect them to have discipline.
Sometimes you have to say mean shit.
And you gotta go, hey, you're fucking up.
Like, we gotta get out of this little hole we're in here.
Let's go.
suzanne santo
Well, what's the thing you said about the weak men make...
joe rogan
It's not me.
It's a very old saying.
suzanne santo
But you posted this recently.
joe rogan
Well, it's a very old saying, but it's hard times create hard men.
Hard men create easy times.
Easy times create soft men.
Soft men create hard times.
I don't remember who was the author of that, but it's a very common expression that I think is real.
And I think it's represented in just our cycle of evolution, of developing as a race of people, as a civilization, life on Earth that's human.
We're all evolving and figuring this out.
And we're battling about how to do it and how not to do it and what to say and what not to say.
suzanne santo
Yeah, yeah, no, it's so, everything's so offensive.
joe rogan
Yeah, but it's also, we're just sorting it out.
Like, in the middle of the offensive, there's people saying, it's not offensive, stop, relax.
And then everybody calms down a little bit.
There's like this battle going on back and forth.
suzanne santo
I appreciate your peaceful way of approaching that.
Sorting it out.
That's a really nice way to say it.
Because it doesn't feel like that.
And I want to have a better way of not being so sad about how offended everybody gets.
joe rogan
We can sort it out, Suzanne.
All you people listening, we can sort it out.
I think most people want to be happy and kind and nice and have good friends.
Most people.
And there's a lot of confusion as to what that requires.
Are these people assholes and pieces of shit?
Or maybe they just have a different way of looking at stuff.
And if you guys talked, maybe they don't know anybody like you.
Maybe they meet you and they look at things different.
And maybe your ability to be humble and just project yourself and your thoughts honestly might affect them in a way where they could say, I never met anybody like that.
Now I'm starting to rethink things.
We all know that whatever you are in December 27th, 2021, whoever you are right now, this is not like your ultimate form.
As long as you're alive and you're thinking and you're growing, But we gotta decide that we're all in this together.
suzanne santo
Yes.
joe rogan
And that we also gotta decide that the only way we can do what you do or what I do is freedom.
You have to be able to just say what you want.
You have to be able to go wherever you...
You can't be tied down for a reason that doesn't totally make sense to some government organization that...
suzanne santo
You're so right.
And what I think is happening is people, mostly from societal persuasion and media persuasion, there's all this narcissism and this feeling of your individual suffering is more important or worse than someone else.
And so you got to speak up and attack this person because they're the culprit, you know, like Dave Chappelle or something like that.
And I think that it's interesting to me that Nobody can be...
Well, first of all, everyone's entitled to their feelings, right?
But these days, you can't quietly be uncomfortable or sort something out yourself.
There has to be this alignment with identity.
And the way that people are doing it is so divisive.
We are divided in so many ways.
And I realize that a lot of things I say...
People might not like, and I'm not used to that.
I love everybody, and I don't like offending people.
It makes me uncomfortable, and I'm a good person.
But lately, I've felt squelched.
I can't say what I really feel because, oh my god, this side's not going to like it.
joe rogan
You just can't be responsible for so many other people's opinion of you.
There's nothing you could do about that.
You're entitled to your own opinion of you, and I would assume your own opinion of you evolves as you grow and as you become a different person as you get older in life.
The problem with expressing yourself about any controversial subject is you're going to encounter a bunch of people that are deeply unhappy that disagree with you.
They're going to lash out at you in very personal ways.
There is a disagreement that can be had and can be had civilly and I have with friends or close friends who I love to death and I admire very much who have a different perspective on things than me.
That is okay too.
All of it is okay.
The problem is you open the door for people to feel morally justified in being horrible people to you.
Just nasty, evil, a person to you that disagrees with you and they can just be a nasty, evil piece of shit to you for almost no reason.
Just because we look at things differently.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
And the idea is that anyone who, you know, that we're binary, anyone who's on the left side of this fence is fucked for life and everyone on the right side, I'll die for you!
Like, this is crazy tribal nonsense.
But so many of us buy into that because that's literally how our genetics were established.
Whoever we are that are here, we are the descendants of the people who made it.
And it is a rough and tumble fucking history.
If you go through the history of humans, before they could write things down, before anybody...
How about before we had language?
When they were just wild monkeys fucking each other and killing each other with rocks.
And we went from that to, oh, this guy killed my fucking husband with a rock.
No, I didn't do it.
Like, I was there, bitch.
There wasn't a law.
Yeah, and then they wrote things down.
And after they wrote things down, they started filming it.
Like, oh, fuck, you got me on YouTube?
And then, like, we're evolving in tune with technology because we're being, like, pulled along by a great magnet of truth.
So all the bad stuff is bad.
There's no doubt about it.
All the mean stuff is mean, but...
Part of it is because we don't know what the fuck we're doing yet.
We have these impossible tools where you can communicate with the whole fucking world.
You could be a TikTok star because you're like dressing up and dancing and you will have access to the minds of 45 million people, which is wild shit.
suzanne santo
That's crazy.
joe rogan
Wild shit, but it's real.
That's a real thing that's happening right now while you're being tracked by whatever fucking algorithms that app uses and whatever is checking what you're buying and where you're going and flying, what airport you fly out of.
Do you use Lyft or Uber?
There's a lot of weird shit.
The connection is fucking bananas.
suzanne santo
Whatever new guys in town because they're usually cheaper anyway.
joe rogan
Yeah, exactly, right?
As we're doing this, though, you're moving in this direction of impossible integration into computers.
And what we're looking at with us, we're trying to keep our way of communicating was designed with no internet.
We're not designed for the internet.
We're not designed for the ability to access the opinions of millions of people simultaneously.
It's too much to ask.
suzanne santo
We're on machine time and machine thinking.
joe rogan
I feel like I'm like a scout.
You've sent me down the trail.
You go, hey, I want you to go down the trail and gather up a couple hundred million downloads a month and tell us what's up.
suzanne santo
Yeah, thanks for what you're doing for all of us.
Seriously.
joe rogan
Tell us what's happening.
suzanne santo
You're a hell of a scout.
joe rogan
This is what it's like.
And I'm like, hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
There's a cliff.
We're running towards a cliff.
unidentified
I know.
Stop.
Everybody stop.
suzanne santo
Everybody stop.
joe rogan
We got to hit the fucking brakes.
unidentified
I know.
joe rogan
And they're like, you're an anti-vaxxer!
unidentified
And they just fucking keep yelling, you don't believe in science!
Hashtag fuck Joe Rogan!
And I'm like, guys, guys, guys, I want us to make it!
joe rogan
There's a cliff!
There's a cliff!
suzanne santo
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Everybody's gotta slow the fuck down!
Look, I'm taking in opinions from all directions.
suzanne santo
It makes me feel like I'm going to cry.
joe rogan
360 degrees.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
But I feel like at this point in time, with the chaos that's here right now, the fucking universe has put me in this place where I can at least have access to more opinions than most people.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
If you disagree with me, that's fine.
I disagree with me all the time.
suzanne santo
I know, it's hilarious.
joe rogan
But if you agree with me, that's fine too.
I might not even be right.
We might all be wrong.
But you can be a cunt.
And too many people just think it's okay to be a cunt today.
suzanne santo
I know.
joe rogan
It's just okay to be a cunt.
It's okay to like...
suzanne santo
Yeah, but that falls back on you because when you're a cunt, you have to live with yourself.
joe rogan
You do, but a lot of times they get extra cunty when no one responds because it generates the initial impulse and gives them some sort of like a pat on the back, some sort of like reinforcement.
suzanne santo
I don't think so.
joe rogan
That what they're doing is okay.
suzanne santo
I think I think at the end of the day, you know deep in that pinprick of your spine of your existence that you're being an asshole and it's not okay.
And there's something that's going to be unsettling.
Even if you have validation and a whole echo chamber of support, at the end of the day, it's not cool.
It's not okay.
joe rogan
If you think, right?
If you're a thinker, if you're a person who's discerning, you know, like you're really thinking about everything you say and everything you do and you want to make sure that you're a solid, good human being, you're 100% correct.
But there's a lot of people out there that are just existing on the revenue of being a cunt.
There's a lot of money and cuntiness.
suzanne santo
You get a whole account going.
I think that it's a lonely time in that way.
joe rogan
But it doesn't have to be.
suzanne santo
No, it's okay.
I'd rather be lonely and secure in my values, but I'm not because I have a hell of a partner and great friends.
That's you as well.
joe rogan
You deserve all of it and more.
You're an awesome human being.
suzanne santo
Thanks, man.
Cheers to you.
joe rogan
Proud to be your friend.
suzanne santo
Right back at you.
joe rogan
Likewise.
As always.
suzanne santo
Thank you.
joe rogan
Dude, we've been friends for 10 years now.
How crazy is that?
suzanne santo
Over 10 years.
joe rogan
Shout out to Balls of Steel.
suzanne santo
Balls of Steel!
joe rogan
One dude, introduce me to you when you guys were doing Angel of Death.
That Angel of Death acoustic on the roof, I remember thinking, oh my god, what a beautiful song.
And it was everything about it.
It was not just the beauty of the song, it was the environment, the fact that it was an acoustic version that you guys did on a roof.
It was so real.
suzanne santo
Thank you.
joe rogan
Shout out to Ben.
suzanne santo
Shout out to Ben.
joe rogan
But it's been a long time.
I feel like people can listen to people that are navigating life still with joy and with happiness and with good friends.
We're all doing okay.
I think that's important to know.
Is that in the same time period as the shit is going fucking haywire and the culture war is at like full nuclear, you know, red alert threat.
There's still people out there that are just being nice to each other and having fun.
And what is really going on?
What's really going on, I think, is we're in the middle of a fucking transition.
Some sort of a weird digital integration.
And as much as we're trying to fight all this shit, and I think we should fight it being in control of human beings.
It's going to come a time, whether it's 10 years from now or 20 years from now, some fucking artificial intelligence is going to be far superior than us, and it's going to trick us into plugging into the Matrix.
suzanne santo
They already are.
Yeah, by the way, that last Matrix.
joe rogan
Jamie liked it.
suzanne santo
Oh, get out of here!
jamie vernon
We can talk about that now.
joe rogan
I think you guys should, but not with me in the room.
jamie vernon
Are you going to watch it?
joe rogan
I'll leave.
No, I haven't watched it yet.
My whole family was over.
I couldn't talk.
suzanne santo
Do you want to talk about this later?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
We have to watch Elf.
We watched Elf last night.
Elf is fucking hilarious still.
It's still really funny.
suzanne santo
It is.
It is.
joe rogan
That's 2003. That fucking movie is really funny.
suzanne santo
You know what else is funny?
Daddy's Home.
With Mark Wahlberg?
joe rogan
Oh, yes.
suzanne santo
And Will Ferrell?
joe rogan
It is funny.
Will Ferrell is a funny motherfucker.
Talladega Nights.
suzanne santo
So is Mark Wahlberg.
joe rogan
Oh, he's very funny.
Very funny.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
Talladega Nights is a fucking hilarious movie.
I did a movie with the main woman, Leslie Bibb, from Talladega Nights.
unidentified
Really?
suzanne santo
Amazing.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I did Zookeeper with her.
suzanne santo
You know, I didn't tell you this, but so I'd never seen news radio until recently and Nick's daughter loves it.
That's hilarious.
So in the mornings we'd be getting up for school and stuff and it would be on and you were great, Joe.
You did great.
joe rogan
It was easy.
I played a moron.
unidentified
You played me.
I played the worst version of me, the slightly stoned version of me.
suzanne santo
It was fun to watch just knowing you now, you know, and like, I mean, were you doing a lot of comedy then?
joe rogan
Oh yeah.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
I was, um, when I first started news radio, I was like six years, yeah, six years into doing standup.
suzanne santo
Amazing.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That's so cool.
News and Radio started in 94, and I started stand-up in 88. So I was super lucky.
suzanne santo
How many seasons was that?
joe rogan
It was five.
The last one was rough because Phil had been murdered by his wife.
suzanne santo
Right.
I didn't know he got murdered during the film.
joe rogan
He got murdered while we were on break.
Oh, God.
And then there was no bright side of it.
Did you guys finish the season?
We did another season with John Lovitz.
The only way we were able to do that is that John and Phil were very good friends.
And we were very good friends with John because we knew John from...
He was always there with Phil.
They were buddies.
We got to know him.
Everybody was very comfortable with him.
And he's really funny.
John Lovitz is hilarious.
He's crazy as fuck, but he's really hilarious.
Crazy in a good way.
He's just a character.
But the point is that's the only way we were able to do a final season.
And we finished that season.
And then they canceled it.
It was crazy.
They canceled it the one time that I was sure they weren't going to cancel it.
All the other times at the end of the season, I was like, that fucking show is not going to make it.
I was like, shit, it's so fun to do.
It was so funny.
But they had all been actors.
Everybody had been an actor.
Dave Foley had obviously done Kids in the Hall.
He had done a lot of sketches.
He was one of the secret producers of news radio.
suzanne santo
No kidding.
joe rogan
He would rewrite everything.
He's so goddamn smart, and he's really talented.
And so are the writers.
And one of the beautiful things about the writers is they didn't have any issue with him doing it.
Because they trusted him.
It's the reason why the show was based around him.
They trusted him to sort of...
Because of Kids in the Hall.
And he's just got a brilliant idea.
He's got a brilliant take on how to set up a scene.
So they just gave him free reign.
That's when the best work is done.
Exactly.
Sometimes they would disagree and they'd be like, but we have to do this for the storyline.
They'd have conversations about it, but so many times the show was rewritten by Dave Foley.
suzanne santo
Yeah, that's the best way to work.
I had that revelation later in life with music of just like people that are like...
Bring in an idea.
Come on in.
joe rogan
Everybody was so talented on news radio.
The writers like Paul Simms and Josh Lieb.
Some of the writers were so talented and so good that it didn't matter.
Everybody was just trying to make the best show.
Everybody was just trying to make the best show.
For me, I literally had been acting for a year.
For one year, I'd be acting.
But all of a sudden, I'm on a show with Dave Foley and Phil Hartman.
I'm like, what the fuck is going on?
suzanne santo
Well, you're like a magic person.
unidentified
I'm the luckiest bitch ever.
joe rogan
It's weird.
suzanne santo
Yeah, well, that's part of it.
But also, I think about that stuff a lot.
You've got that timing, and then you've also got the brain and the work ethic and just the talent.
I think...
I like watching people and understanding how someone got to somewhere.
Yeah, it's really exciting.
joe rogan
Well, I have mental illness that I'm trying to cure through hard work.
suzanne santo
Oh, you mean you're an overworker?
joe rogan
Yeah, for sure.
But it's also like, here's the thing.
suzanne santo
Is this like the exercise thing?
joe rogan
Yeah, it's all the things.
It's like the podcast thing, the comedy thing.
It's like, if I don't concentrate on something and pay attention to it, then I turn on myself.
suzanne santo
Why do you call that mental illness?
joe rogan
Because it's a mental illness, because then I turn on myself.
suzanne santo
Turning on yourself's not super great.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, the problem is, I have a drill sergeant in my head.
So it's like, I will turn on myself.
suzanne santo
Yeah, but obviously it's up to you to balance that.
joe rogan
Yes.
suzanne santo
But I think that that's a really unique quality in terms of having the talent and the brain and the drive.
joe rogan
Yeah, but I'm telling you, a lot of the drive is like me running away from mental illness.
Mental illness is like a barking dog.
It's like 50 yards away, and I just have to keep going, and I'm hoping he's going to give up.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
I don't know about that.
No.
joe rogan
But it's a different kind of mental illness.
It's not the worst con.
It's not like you want to ruin your life and start doing coke.
Right.
You're not self-destructive in that way.
I need puzzles.
I need some shit to solve.
suzanne santo
Yeah, I understand that.
joe rogan
If I don't have an act I'm working on or something else I'm doing that's hard to do, I'll turn on myself.
I think a lot of us are like that.
suzanne santo
Yeah, I do that.
I make war on Suzanne.
I try not to.
I try to be nice to her.
Well, you know, I've got a great therapist.
joe rogan
That's a great phrase.
I make war on Suzanne.
That should be a song.
suzanne santo
Oh, yeah.
I'm sure it's had its iterations in there.
joe rogan
I make war on Suzanne.
I make war on Suzanne.
suzanne santo
Well, you know what's interesting?
And not to like...
It will be difficult to talk about myself in this way, but the truth is...
joe rogan
Are you going to use yourself in the third person?
suzanne santo
No.
joe rogan
Like, do it.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
Some people could do it.
suzanne santo
No, well...
joe rogan
It might be your thing.
Try it.
suzanne santo
So I'm doing my best work I've ever done.
joe rogan
So Suzanne Zento's doing the best work she's ever done.
suzanne santo
And I'm existing...
joe rogan
Will you say it one time?
suzanne santo
No.
No, I can't.
unidentified
I'm not a cunt.
joe rogan
Cheers.
Oh, my God.
suzanne santo
Oh, my God.
unidentified
But...
joe rogan
See, you can't do this shit on regular radio.
suzanne santo
No, you can't.
You sure can't.
Oh my god, I did a couple of radio shows recently and my songs have a lot of swear words in them and I... Oh no, what do you do?
It was so hard.
I did a couple...
Actually, I did a couple shows in the Carolinas and it was like some of the biggest paying gigs I've had in a while and it was like, you know...
It was like a $20,000 weekend, and I needed that.
It was the only money I made all year.
joe rogan
Did they tell you you can't swear?
suzanne santo
There had to be clean shows.
I had to work overtime to make it sound good and deliverable.
The thing is, when I curse in my songs, I'm not doing it just to do it.
It's part of the song.
joe rogan
You know what you need?
suzanne santo
What do I need?
joe rogan
A beep button.
suzanne santo
Point is, I did it.
I did it.
But I was terrified.
I was so self-aware.
It really sucked.
Because, you know, when you're singing and you're, you know, and I'm playing music, like, I'm not like, I'm not thinking about it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
suzanne santo
You know, but I was so nervous.
I was like, oh my God, like these people, like they brought me here.
They're paying me money.
And like, I don't want to fuck this up by saying fuck.
joe rogan
But the thing is, it's like you're in the artist's compromise, right?
Because there's a reason why they wanted you there.
They wanted you there because they love your work.
unidentified
So if they love your work, that means- Just odd for them to be like, by the way.
Exactly.
joe rogan
It's like, well, that means they've listened.
So if they've listened, that means they know you swear.
suzanne santo
It turned out to be great.
Um...
But what I was going to say...
joe rogan
What did you do?
suzanne santo
What did I do?
joe rogan
Yeah, for when you got to the F word.
suzanne santo
I rewrote some stuff, and it was actually okay.
But you couldn't say goddamn and stuff like that.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
You couldn't say goddamn?
suzanne santo
Yeah, no.
joe rogan
What about Odin be damned?
suzanne santo
I've been reading about Odin a lot lately.
joe rogan
Odin was a bad motherfucker.
suzanne santo
I know!
Just hanging from that tree, giving his eye away.
joe rogan
Odin was a different kind of dude.
suzanne santo
I know, I know.
I find a lot of comfort in that lately, in mythology.
joe rogan
It's interesting, right?
It's like eventually people gave up on Zeus.
There's not a lot of people out there.
Zeus used to be the fucking man!
Back when they were making houses out of stone, Zeus was the man.
Zeus was the goddamn man.
Oh, you can't even say goddamn man.
suzanne santo
He got a little carried away, you know?
He didn't have that humility.
joe rogan
Where did Thor go?
Where's Thor when we need him?
What the fuck, Thor?
suzanne santo
He's here.
joe rogan
Do you know what the problem with the entire Marvel Comics universe is?
suzanne santo
Oh, we're going Marvel, not the tradition.
joe rogan
Thor, he's in the Marvel Comics universe.
unidentified
Yeah, of course.
joe rogan
You know what the problem is?
Captain Marvel.
She could fix everything.
She could change everything.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Or the Hulk.
Every time there's a Thor movie, I'm like, send in the Hulk, bitch!
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Call your friend!
suzanne santo
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Your friend is the Hulk!
suzanne santo
Not Winter Soldier.
What's the one after that?
joe rogan
I don't know.
suzanne santo
Okay, well, anyway.
joe rogan
The one after Winter Soldier.
suzanne santo
Captain Marvel, like, the whole time you're like, where was she?
joe rogan
Oh.
suzanne santo
This whole time, she could do all the things, but she was waiting, she was working on, she had another job.
Anyway.
joe rogan
What did you show me, Jamie?
Odin?
jamie vernon
That was Anthony Hopkins.
joe rogan
Oh, no shit?
unidentified
Yeah.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
He was Odin?
Which one was that?
unidentified
What?
suzanne santo
Where have you been?
joe rogan
No, but I'm trying to remember.
I have too much data.
I have too much data in my head.
suzanne santo
Well, all of the Marvel with Thor, Anthony Hopkins was Odin.
joe rogan
Here's the thing with the Avengers.
Call the Hulk.
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
What's happening?
suzanne santo
I wasn't talking about Marvel.
I was talking about actual mythology.
joe rogan
Emo Hulk.
The problem is Hulk with the glasses is bullshit.
Hulk with the glasses at the diner, remember that?
When he became Mark Ruffalo?
unidentified
Sad.
jamie vernon
Reflective Hulk.
joe rogan
Hulk is listening to NPR and he's crying and he wants to go to Guatemala.
suzanne santo
Have you had Chris Hemsworth on?
joe rogan
No, I haven't, but I'm afraid I'd fall in love.
suzanne santo
I know.
unidentified
He's beautiful.
suzanne santo
I met him once when I was playing with Hosier and we did Ellen.
And I have a photo with him where he took my phone and took our photo.
And he was so nice.
joe rogan
You should swab that for DNA. That's all I'm going to say.
Put it in some sort of a fucking test tube.
suzanne santo
It's an experience.
joe rogan
Because if one day...
If one day, like, Crisper gets to the point where all you need is like a coffee cup from someone and you could have their body.
suzanne santo
First of all...
joe rogan
Look at that man on the right.
suzanne santo
Yeah, good for him.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ.
suzanne santo
Good for him.
joe rogan
He's gorgeous.
suzanne santo
I know.
And he loves his wife.
joe rogan
I would hug him for moments.
Long moments.
suzanne santo
Would you stop and write it down?
joe rogan
I want him to comfort me.
There's no doubt about it, that guy has superior genetics.
His grandparents, his grandpappy's grandpappy was definitely a viking.
100%, right?
suzanne santo
It appears, I can't speak for the man, I don't know him, but it appears he has the intellect, the kindness, the comedy, he's got the whole thing.
joe rogan
So you're in love?
suzanne santo
No, I'm in love with Nick Pizzolatto.
But I admire Thor.
I'd rather keep him in a fictitious place.
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't even want to know he jerks off.
He's too perfect.
There's only a couple of those guys.
I hope they just get through life in the most noble way possible.
Him and Jason Momoa, I hope they hold hands as they ascend to heaven.
suzanne santo
You know when we went to see Sturgill, we had Johnny Bernthal, the Punisher, and Jason Momoa on either side of us?
joe rogan
I know.
We didn't even know.
suzanne santo
I did.
joe rogan
I didn't know.
We went to the Troubadour.
I'm like, Suzanne, I actually pay attention to the show.
I didn't know.
I have a man crush on Jason Momoa.
I met him in a Whole Foods parking lot.
I met Jason Momoa in a Whole Foods parking lot.
He's the fucking nicest guy of all time.
Gave me his phone number.
Yeah, we just exchanged phone numbers.
That's the beautiful thing.
suzanne santo
Did you call him?
joe rogan
I think we texted each other back and forth.
suzanne santo
Were you like, hey Jay, it's me.
joe rogan
I got nervous.
suzanne santo
I'm going to be honest with you.
joe rogan
I get nervous if I get a famous person's phone number.
suzanne santo
I'm like, shit!
joe rogan
This is too much pressure!
It's funny.
I meet famous people now.
suzanne santo
Yeah, of course.
joe rogan
And when you meet them, you're like, oh.
It doesn't matter how many famous people you meet.
When you meet someone who's famous and you never met them, you're like, oh, there's that person.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
Look at this fucking, the actual real Snoop Dogg.
suzanne santo
Oh, yeah.
That's super cool.
When I was 19 in LA and I'd meet a famous person, I'd pretend like I didn't know who they were.
And I'd be like...
unidentified
Timberlake?
suzanne santo
What is that, Italian?
joe rogan
My friend's wife did that.
suzanne santo
But now I, like, the thing is...
If I admire somebody, I'm going to just tell them.
Like, oh man, I love your movies, or I love your music, you know?
Good for you.
That feels comfortable to me, to not pretend like I'm cool.
unidentified
Well, it's actually cool to do that.
Sure.
joe rogan
It's actually cool to do that.
But there's a problem with people wanting people to know who they are, too.
suzanne santo
Well, that's annoying.
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's tricky.
I always say, hi, I'm Joe.
Even if I know someone knows who I am, I feel like I have to say that.
suzanne santo
I got recognized in the nail salon in Austin, and this girl said all these nice things to me about, oh my god, I love your music, and I just bought six tickets to your show on the 15th, but I was like, oh my god, so tell me about yourself!
So I got clingy, and I think I kept her for too long, and she was like, okay, I gotta go!
joe rogan
That's hilarious.
suzanne santo
I don't know if they went to the show.
joe rogan
That's hilarious.
Yeah, that's weird.
It's like when you meet someone and say they're going to go to your show, you're like, have a good time.
But then you don't talk to them afterwards.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
I hope you had a good time.
I don't know what happened.
suzanne santo
You know, it's nice when someone admires your work.
joe rogan
It's very nice.
suzanne santo
It is nice.
joe rogan
It's very nice.
It's just...
What you don't want is to feel like you're the shit.
It's like a balancing act between someone reaffirming that you're doing good, that they love what you're doing, but you never get into a position where you think you're better than other people.
It's like this weird balancing act that actors and musicians and comedians and all kinds of famous people fail at all the time because there's no guidebook.
suzanne santo
It's a weird balance, though, because...
I want to enjoy it more.
I was starting to talk about this earlier.
I'm doing my best work and the way that the music industry is structured is like a failing model.
joe rogan
How so?
suzanne santo
I see very little return on what I'm creating and putting out there, but then the return is emotional.
My last record, Ruby Red, that came out in 2017 has a Fuck ton of streaming, right?
For me.
But I made like 10 grand off of it.
And not to measure it monetarily.
joe rogan
So do you get most of the money from streaming?
From shows.
unidentified
I'm allowed that.
joe rogan
But you're saying you made 10 grand.
You mean you made 10 grand from the road?
suzanne santo
That was from streaming.
joe rogan
From streaming.
unidentified
Okay, that's right.
suzanne santo
And like pre-sales out the gate.
And like, you know.
joe rogan
Pre-sales of tickets?
Or pre-sales of the album?
Records.
suzanne santo
Vinyl specifically.
joe rogan
But the, what's the, what would you like to happen?
Like what is like a normal?
If you go back to like your early days.
suzanne santo
Sure, sure, sure.
What I would like to happen is I want like concentrated touring where I'm out for like two weeks and then I'm not away from home for so long because home is really important to me and for so long in my life like I moved every year for like 15 years.
I didn't really have a home and I'd just be on the road constantly and What I would like is a comfortable amount of financial return and then my home life while I'm creating more content and music.
But COVID kind of put a...
joe rogan
Don't you think that that's how all artists feel when they feel like they're putting out so much, but they're not getting it back?
They feel like there's a disproportionate relationship, like something's off, right?
suzanne santo
The way it's built now, yeah.
joe rogan
So what's the flaw?
What's the bottleneck in the system?
It seems like the bottleneck in the system is getting your music to people.
suzanne santo
Well, that.
Right.
joe rogan
That's the bottom line.
suzanne santo
Streaming.
joe rogan
So is the streaming thing like a money thing?
When they stream it, how does it work?
Do you own the song?
Do you own the writing?
suzanne santo
I do.
joe rogan
You do.
suzanne santo
But if you work with a label, they usually own your copyright, depending on your deal, depending on your leverage that you have.
joe rogan
So it totally depends on whatever deal you make.
There's not a standard deal.
suzanne santo
No.
joe rogan
So the things with young artists, if someone's coming up and they haven't fully popped yet, when people know they're good and they have a bright idea of their future, they'll sign them and lock them into these weird contracts.
suzanne santo
Yeah, you can get in trouble.
I've had that.
I've gotten in trouble.
joe rogan
Everybody seems to.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
I'm not supposed to talk about this because there's an NDA, but like my first, I signed a deal when I was 19. Don't get sued.
So it turns out that NDA actually does apply, so we're going to edit that.
joe rogan
We had to look it up, folks.
And it turns out this story is not appropriate for...
suzanne santo
So, moving on.
joe rogan
Yes, moving on.
Don't get sued, Suzanne.
unidentified
We've been hunting lately.
What you been up to?
joe rogan
I killed an elk and a pig in October.
suzanne santo
Did you really?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah.
unidentified
Do you still have those huge refrigerators in your garage?
joe rogan
Yeah, I have some here now.
suzanne santo
You know, when you gave me the bear meat, the bear sausage.
joe rogan
Yeah, did you like it?
suzanne santo
Fucking excellent.
joe rogan
It's delicious, right?
suzanne santo
I made it with some pasta.
It was delicious.
joe rogan
Did you pan fry it?
A little bit of oil?
suzanne santo
It was a while ago, Joe.
I'm just saying.
joe rogan
They're really good.
suzanne santo
The elk meat was also delicious.
joe rogan
Elk meat is better.
Elk meat is the best meat because you don't have to worry about trichinosis, so you don't have to cook it to 165 degrees.
If I get real sketchy about giving bear meat to people, I won't give bear meat to a moron.
Thank you.
suzanne santo
So you don't think I'm a moron?
joe rogan
I definitely don't think you're a moron.
But even people that aren't morons, like my friend Steve Vanella got trichinosis and his whole crew did.
suzanne santo
I follow him on Instagram.
joe rogan
He was in Alaska, and they shot a black bear, and they cooked it over a fire.
And people were like, what are you talking about?
You're eating a fucking bear?
Folks, this is what's going to sound so crazy.
When Davey Crockett or Daniel Boone, I think it was Davey Crockett who sold bear meat.
People would eat bear meat, and then they would use deer for hides.
suzanne santo
Okay.
joe rogan
Like in the turn of the century or whatever the fuck it was, the 1700s.
They wouldn't eat the deer?
No, they didn't eat deer.
They didn't prefer it.
I mean, they ate it if they had to.
suzanne santo
Do you like venison?
joe rogan
I do.
I love it.
But the thing is, that's preferred now, whereas black bear meat...
suzanne santo
Is it riskier with venison?
joe rogan
No.
No, it's not.
No, no, no.
suzanne santo
Okay.
joe rogan
Venison's not...
It's not risky yet.
Here's the thing.
suzanne santo
Because there's all kinds of weird...
joe rogan
But here's a threat.
The threat is CWD. With CWD, it's called chronic wasting disease.
suzanne santo
Yeah, I've seen that.
joe rogan
It's a prion disease.
So it's like mad cow disease, but it hasn't jumped to humans yet.
So it only exists in deer, but it exists in a lot of deer.
And people are terrified that it's going to make a jump to humans.
suzanne santo
Have you had any experiences with ticks?
joe rogan
I personally have not, but I have very good friends that have gotten Lyme disease.
And one of my good friends got what's called alpha-gal.
And alpha-gal is an allergy to red meat.
So he had a tick that burrowed in his belly button.
suzanne santo
Oh no.
joe rogan
And he pulled his fucking tick out after like a day or whatever it was.
They numb down.
suzanne santo
But can't you take antibiotics for that?
joe rogan
It depends.
It depends if you know what happened.
You might not feel bad at first, you might wait a while, and your doctor might misdiagnose it.
My buddy, he brought his son in, and his son had Bell's palsy, like his face went numb.
And the doctor was like, no, there's nothing wrong.
Eventually got them to test and figure out that it was Lyme disease.
But the doctor was immediately sort of dismissive.
I think when the Bell's palsy kicked in, that's when the doctor looked at him.
But before that, the doctor was trying to play it off like it was nothing.
Because they don't know.
And the thing about the fucking, the weird thing about Lyme disease is that they think it might be connected to this thing called, is it called Meniere's disease?
Look up Meniere's disease.
There's this thing where people seem to be losing their mind and thinking that strings are growing out of their skin.
And they think that this disease is connected to Lyme disease because the people that get it almost all have Lyme disease.
And they think that Lyme disease may have some sort of a neurotoxic effect.
suzanne santo
Yes.
joe rogan
Is that Meniere's disease?
suzanne santo
Well, Lyme disease is...
joe rogan
No, that's not it?
jamie vernon
Lyme disease, they call it the...
joe rogan
Oh, that's right.
That's what Dana White has.
That's when you have a tinnitus.
suzanne santo
But they call it the great imitator because Lyme disease can manifest in all these different ways in all your systems.
joe rogan
Yeah, but hang on.
I'm going to go crazy if I don't figure this out.
There's like a skin thing.
Magellans, thank you.
Morgellans, that's right, Morgellans.
So this Morgellans disease, we actually went to a conference.
I did this sci-fi show a long time ago.
We went to a conference to talk to these people.
And one of the things that I found was fascinating, like this is a doctor who had it.
And this disease is like, you see like worms moving behind your eyelids, but they're not there.
But they're not there.
suzanne santo
Wait, like it's like...
joe rogan
It's not there.
suzanne santo
Like psychotic?
joe rogan
You see it, but it's not really there.
You're hallucinating.
And then you start picking at your skin because you think the fibers are growing out of it.
suzanne santo
So you're on acid?
joe rogan
No, there's some sort of a neurological...
The thing that happens with Lyme disease in some people.
So some people that have Lyme disease, it's standard symptoms.
But this doctor was saying that some people, they have hallucinations.
And they think it might be a part of this.
The way he described it to me, and I'm paraphrasing, I'll do my best.
He was saying that essentially, a tick doesn't just have this one disease.
It probably has a myriad of diseases, and some of them we haven't even fucking recognized yet.
suzanne santo
Is it considered a parasite?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
unidentified
Ticks are parasites.
suzanne santo
Fuck, that's so scary.
joe rogan
They cling to you and suck your blood.
They're gross.
suzanne santo
I saw your post today about the tongue thing with the carp.
joe rogan
That's a cunty little bug, right?
suzanne santo
That's disgusting.
That's disgusting.
joe rogan
That's horrible.
suzanne santo
Well, you know that's what Ben wrote, The Angel of Death.
I did not write that song.
joe rogan
What did he write?
About a parasite?
suzanne santo
He wrote it about...
After watching Planet Earth and all of these- Oh, the documentary series?
Specific species that would take over your brain.
And, you know, it's a terrifying thought, but, you know, it- It happens.
And God forbid it happens to us.
joe rogan
It seems like no matter what you are, whether you're a frog or an eagle or a wolf, there's a system in place that's designed to encourage innovation and success and growth and strength and dominance and also weed out the weak.
And weed out the weak, whether it's weak psychologically, weak socially, weak culturally, weak physically.
It's all things.
It's like everything is a test.
No matter what happens with humans, everything is a test.
Are you going to be a victim or a victor?
Are you going to be successful or a failure?
Are you going to be happy or sad?
Are you going to be weak?
Are you going to be strong?
Are you going to be loving?
Are you going to be an asshole?
There's this constant incoming flux of information and a battle of how to react and how to behave.
We're all caught up in the middle of it.
unidentified
Like, ah!
joe rogan
And then you have government.
And government starts steering it like, well, the problem is all these people who don't have TSA pre.
And they just fucking go after specific groups of people and turn you on them.
Did you see that crazy video of that lady with no mask on yelling at a man on a plane to put your mask on?
suzanne santo
No.
joe rogan
It is the wildest shit ever because it is the most 2021 video of all time.
This lady hits the sky.
suzanne santo
Is this the zombie apocalypse?
joe rogan
Not yet.
No, that's not going to happen.
That's going to be like many, many generations from now.
What we're dealing with right now...
Right now, it's like this sort of a reckoning that we're all kind of responsible for the tone of the civilization that's around us, where all of us sort of looked at the civilization that was in place, the culture that was in place, and said that, well, this is just how it's always been, this is how it will be for the foreseeable future, and I'm just going to operate on the idea that all this was set up by some super-intelligent people that really had a good sense of the future.
Because we see that in, like, the Declaration of Independence.
suzanne santo
Well, it feels very other.
joe rogan
The Constitution, we see that.
Like, they've kind of figured out, like, hey, this could go sideways, and this is how it could go sideways.
So you can't give anyone power for any long period of time.
suzanne santo
Sure.
joe rogan
Like, four years in, then people get to reassess, then you get another four years.
And, you know, they figured out some, like, parameters where they felt like they could foresee how human beings could go apeshit with power and how they could correct for that.
But the big ones are the freedom of speech.
That's a big one.
That's giant.
The fact that people want to fuck with that, it's like, oh my god.
There's no other way than letting everybody talk.
There's no other way.
That includes, like, the people that are...
Like, if the Nazis have the power to silence the people who aren't the Nazis, that's bad, right?
Well, guess what?
If the people who aren't Nazis have the power to silence the Nazis, that can be equally bad, because for whatever fucked up reason, some people are going to listen to those folks.
They already are!
And if they get shut down, if they get shut down left and right, and they don't have to engage with someone who clearly has better ideas than them, or the whole world gets to see, well, this idea sucks, Because it was tested on the battlefield of discourse.
That's what it's supposed to happen.
suzanne santo
Right.
joe rogan
Like, they're supposed to talk about things.
Like, when you have someone who has a terrible idea...
suzanne santo
There's no room for discussion.
There's no discussion.
joe rogan
But there is.
There's just too many people have too much power to shut it down.
So their initial impulse is to shut it down.
But that's just because we haven't had this power before.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
And we're like, shut it down!
Shut it down!
And the people shutting it down are like, wow, we've got to shut it down.
suzanne santo
What do you mean by this power?
joe rogan
The power to shut things down.
Like a small group of people can just decide that they're going to protest something and shut everything down.
They can decide to change, like the Dave Chappelle thing is a great example.
What Dave did in that special was respond to previous, like, anger at him about what they perceived to be transphobic comments with talking about his friend.
suzanne santo
If you look him up on Wikipedia, that's one of the first things that comes up.
It's ridiculous.
joe rogan
That's okay.
That's okay.
You don't have to believe that.
The reality of it is, if you listen to the special, it's a story about a person that he loved.
unidentified
I know!
joe rogan
It's not, but here's why.
suzanne santo
Infuriating!
joe rogan
It is, but it's not.
The problem is not that a small percentage of people reacted in the way they did and started shutting things down.
The problem is that we're all willing to consider what a small percentage of people are furious about rather than what we think because it's too hard to gather your own opinion independently.
On every subject, especially when you can be called out for it or people can decide they're going to attack you for it.
It doesn't mean that we can't all do better, but what it does mean is we can't get anywhere if we just attack each other mercilessly and without logic.
Here's the thing about Dave Chappelle.
First of all, he's one of the nicest people I've ever met in my life.
He's brilliant.
You've met him.
He's wonderful.
Here's the other thing.
When they're talking about this material, they're not citing specific bits.
Have you noticed that?
They keep saying the transphobic this.
suzanne santo
There's all these keywords that are used, yeah, that counter the actual experience of listening to his special.
unidentified
It's like...
joe rogan
But there's also, like, tribes that you have to belong to.
suzanne santo
It's like reading the headline, but you didn't read the whole article, you know?
joe rogan
There's tribes that you belong to where they have an idea.
Oh, Dave Chappelle said something transphobic.
And you just get mad at him.
And you don't know exactly what he said.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
I have to say that, like...
I'm ashamed to admit that I was in that vacuum for a little while in LA, not against Dave or anything, but I was part of the collective anger and repost, and I got to a point where I recognized that I was not operating on my own agency, and I was losing my sense of myself.
And I'll be honest with you, when I came here to visit you guys last December, I was in my bubble in LA, and I saw that you and Dave were doing stand-up at Stubbs, and I hadn't played or seen any shows all year, and I really wanted to come see you guys.
And I called you, and you were like, just come down.
Get on a plane.
I was like, well, shouldn't I drive?
Shouldn't I not touch anything?
And you were like, just come down.
And I... Honestly, Joe, it changed my life because I got on a plane.
I came here to visit.
I ended up singing with Gary.
joe rogan
Everybody got cooties that night except you and me.
suzanne santo
Well, I'm still standing.
joe rogan
You and me were the only ones that didn't get that night.
suzanne santo
I don't know if I did.
Who fucking knows?
joe rogan
But we test you for antibodies.
suzanne santo
I know.
joe rogan
Did we test you before today or today is the only day for antibodies?
suzanne santo
I don't think it was a blood test.
I thought it was a swab.
joe rogan
Well, we definitely did a regular swab, which is a rapid antigen test.
The finger hurts.
That's hilarious.
suzanne santo
But wait, let me...
So, like, point is, you had talked to me about...
Leave in LA, right?
And I came here because I wanted to see some art.
I wanted to see you.
I wanted to see Dave.
I've always wanted to see Dave.
I'd never seen him before at that point.
joe rogan
And you got to see him in a historical time.
suzanne santo
I did.
joe rogan
It was his idea to do these shows.
We did these shows at Stubbs, but it was purely Dave's idea.
He was like, we can't let him take this thing.
He goes, we got to keep this rolling.
We got to give these people some fun.
suzanne santo
Ma'am, I was laughing and I was crying because it was fucking beautiful.
joe rogan
And he developed that set that people saw in this last thing.
But both of you were.
suzanne santo
It was so powerful.
And then, you know, like...
The whole thing was really magical because I also was like, fuck, should I move to Texas?
What should I do?
You and Gary and then a couple other friends I have were the only people I knew here.
I think I told you the story, but not recently.
But when I left the podcast that we did December something of 2020, you, me, and Gary...
I decided to drive around and I was like, oh man, I should like...
I've only been here when I've been touring or there's festivals, so it's like madness.
joe rogan
Yeah, you told me this one, yeah.
suzanne santo
And I was driving down some street.
I didn't know where I was.
And I like, you know, asked God or the universe.
I was like, man, should I move to Texas?
This is so crazy.
Like not in a million years.
Seems like it gets pretty hot here, you know?
And I was driving down some street.
I mean, this is a true story.
This is fucking wild to me.
And I was driving my rental car and there were these people walking in the street with their dog and I slowed down and then I looked over and it was my friend Alejandro Shaky Graves.
Who's the only other person, really, that I knew at the time in Austin.
And I started crying.
I was like, what the fuck?
Okay, I guess I got my answer.
I guess I should move to this place.
And I... In the coming months, I basically got this house that was handed down from a friend of a friend, which was a little more than I paid in rent for a one-bedroom apartment in LA. So I have this really cute little cottage house with a big backyard.
And then I met this person, this love of my life, and my life changed forever.
But...
The point is, the nucleus of the story is, I came here to see you and Dave because I wanted...
joe rogan
Do you want to have some fun?
suzanne santo
I wanted some medicine.
I wanted to laugh.
I wanted art.
And I was deprived of that, like all of us were.
And there's something to be said about that.
There's something to be said about shutting people away from the things that feed us and feed our spirit.
joe rogan
What can be said is about whether or not someone should be able to tell you that you can't go out.
You can't take a risk.
That should be your own decision.
suzanne santo
If you don't want to go, then don't fucking go.
joe rogan
The realists looked at it and said you're not going to control a respiratory virus.
The realists look at it and said, you might be able to mitigate some risk by making people follow certain protocols where you would spread it less easily, but goddamn, some of these things are like really good.
This new Omicron, is that how you say it?
Omicron or Omicron?
suzanne santo
I keep saying Omicron, but it's Omicron.
joe rogan
Omicron is crazy contagious.
Just bananas contagious.
suzanne santo
Everybody I know, but they were sick for two days.
joe rogan
But that's the problem, is that it doesn't fit the fear-mongering headlines.
The fear-mongering headlines are, there's a hurricane of viral demons coming your way!
Have you heard?
There's a compilation.
I'm going to play you this compilation without copyright, without any use of...
suzanne santo
Can I pee really fast?
joe rogan
Yeah, go pee.
suzanne santo
Okay, because I want to see this, but it's getting bad.
joe rogan
Let me play this.
unidentified
You can hear it.
We're about to experience a viral blizzard.
suzanne santo
Blizzard!
unidentified
A blizzard!
There's a blizzard!
The country is facing a viral blizzard.
joe rogan
A blizzard!
suzanne santo
Was this on no agenda?
joe rogan
No, I found it on Twitter.
unidentified
Oh my God.
One infectious disease expert saying a viral blizzard is about to hit this country.
suzanne santo
Right, right, right.
joe rogan
Brought to you by Pfizer.
suzanne santo
You know, this is why I love No Agenda, because they give you such a perspective when they concentrate all of it, and you're just like, oh my god, they're all saying the same bullshit.
joe rogan
Yeah, No Agenda.
He operates literally with no agenda.
suzanne santo
He's such a fan.
joe rogan
He's so smart that he's managed to make himself completely independent of the system.
Suzanne, go pee.
unidentified
I will.
joe rogan
We'll be right back!
unidentified
But Jamie, what are we going to do?
joe rogan
From your perspective, as a producer of a podcast that gets seen by millions of people, you're looking at things all the time.
You're paying attention to trends.
You're looking at online activity, metaverse bullshit, all this stuff.
Where are we going?
Something's happening, right?
Civilization is clearly at a tipping point, right?
jamie vernon
I could be cynical on that and go, maybe.
Because those days I don't look at my phone, you forget stuff.
It's going wild.
joe rogan
For sure.
But eventually it's going to affect you.
Like the way you pay your bills, whether or not you get credit.
It's going to affect you, right?
If they institute some sort of a social credit system, it's going to affect you.
Are you worried about that at all?
jamie vernon
Yeah, I heard someone talk about something like that over the weekend.
joe rogan
What'd they say?
jamie vernon
Like a global credit score of some kind or something like that.
joe rogan
We talked about the Yahoo article, right?
Where they said that they were going to base it in some part on your browser history?
jamie vernon
Well, they talked about it, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
The idea was they were floating it out there that your browser history might make you available for more credit.
So the idea would be that if you gave up all the shit you looked up, they would allow you to have more credit because they know, hey, well, he's not Googling bulletproof vests or fucking freeze-dried food.
jamie vernon
If they did that, though, people would just make burner accounts to look online instantly, and it would be over.
joe rogan
Yeah, but if they track your fucking device, like, who knows what kind of ability they have to actually track your phone or your laptop, right?
Like, if Edward Snowden didn't tell us about their ability to essentially, like, mass store every fucking phone call and email you've ever made, if Edward Snowden didn't tell us about what the NSA was cooking up, we would have never guessed it.
So who knows what the fuck is going on right now?
You should assume that everything you say is constantly being monitored and recorded.
Whether you're saying it on a phone, off a phone.
Oh, look, it's Suzanne.
She's back.
jamie vernon
Will Harris shared a post today about a guy who spent the week at his mom's house and is now getting advertisements for his mother's toothpaste.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
jamie vernon
And they never talked about it, but it explained why that's happening.
joe rogan
Well, your phone's listening.
jamie vernon
No, no, it has nothing to do with that.
It knows everything you've bought because of all of the terms and conditions you've done, so it's checking your email and all of that stuff.
joe rogan
Oh yeah, for sure, that too.
jamie vernon
And then linking that with, like I sort of said this a week or two ago, it'll have your phone's Social Security number, if you will.
It's like a mobile ID number.
It's the EEIN and all that kind of stuff.
It's linking it out with GPS data.
So it'll know like me and you and Suzanne are all with each other.
joe rogan
Right.
jamie vernon
So she'll start getting advertisements for stuff you're buying.
Thinking and hoping that you might see an advertisement.
suzanne santo
I'm getting it.
joe rogan
That's what I want.
jamie vernon
Like Suzanne will see an ad you missed.
Like, hey, Joe, did you see this thing?
I bet you would love this.
joe rogan
Well, what about when you talk about something and then you get an ad for that something that you've never seen an ad for before?
It could be coincidence.
jamie vernon
It could have known that you were watching TV because it's coming through a streaming service now and it knows you would have seen the ad so it's re-giving it to you.
It's redistributing it to you.
joe rogan
Right.
The only reason why I know about it is I've seen an ad.
jamie vernon
I've been using YouTube TV for two or three years now and I recently watched I don't remember the reason why but like over the air football game.
Over the antenna.
The advertisements are so different and you don't even realize Thank you.
joe rogan
Right, but I have had conversations with you, or with a lot of people, where I'm talking about something, and then all of a sudden I get an ad for that thing in Google Ads.
jamie vernon
I also think there's a lot of, how many ads do you get all day that that doesn't happen to, and then you're like, oh shit, I mentioned that thing yesterday.
joe rogan
And also when you mention it, are you mentioning it because it's in the public zeitgeist?
jamie vernon
Like, why did you say it?
joe rogan
Right, and then it gets out there.
That's possible too.
But that's the thing, you have to be really honest about what's the source of whatever the fuck it is.
And the problem is people get really tribal.
And when they get really tribal, they don't want to admit that maybe they don't totally understand what's happening.
Like, is my phone listening to me?
Fuck, it might be.
It seems like it is.
unidentified
Definitely.
joe rogan
Might be.
Why wouldn't it be?
They definitely have the technology.
Like, if they know, if Suzanne Santos talking some shit, they could just listen to that bitch's phone all day long.
They know, right?
They know they can do that.
If Joe Rogan is saying something stupid, they can check his phone.
You know they can.
I know they can.
We all know they can.
So if that's the case, how are they doing that?
And are they using that technology all the time?
Why would you just use it on potential criminals or enemies of the state or what have you?
You could use it on the entire fucking population and make trillions of dollars in advertiser revenue.
Wouldn't you do that?
What are you, stupid?
Use it on everybody.
Hey, hey, guys, we just get metadata.
We don't even know who it is.
We're going to send the ads to their phones.
unidentified
We give you a little piece, a little taste.
jamie vernon
Honestly, it's just ads.
Why are ads?
We know better, at least to some extent, to offer ads.
joe rogan
See, I don't.
jamie vernon
Some of them you do.
joe rogan
I buy coolers I don't need.
I'm like, I want a Blue Yeti.
It looks so good.
jamie vernon
I'm a moron.
I'll take your excess coolers.
joe rogan
I have a cooler for you.
jamie vernon
There's a bunch of ads you don't fall for.
joe rogan
I saw a cock ring.
They're selling cock rings.
suzanne santo
But we sign up for that stuff.
Like when you sign your cell phone thing, there's all kinds of bullshit in there.
joe rogan
Well, nobody reads terms and agreements.
When was the last time you read terms and agreements for anything?
suzanne santo
I think it's a very rare breed that ever takes the time for that.
joe rogan
Are you smoking one of them dad joints?
suzanne santo
I'm smoking a dad.
joe rogan
Is that a Seattle thing?
Is that still from Seattle?
I think they're from L.A. That was from L.A.? Really?
Can't read anymore, right?
You're with me.
It's old people eyeballs.
suzanne santo
Hold on, there's a QR code.
Oh, thank you, sir.
jamie vernon
Is it Delta 8 or is it I saw someone selling HHC now?
suzanne santo
I just got my eyelashes.
joe rogan
Oh, no, it didn't.
No, it didn't.
No, it was nowhere near.
suzanne santo
I think they're still there.
joe rogan
There's nowhere near your eyelashes.
unidentified
They got hot.
joe rogan
It's surprisingly potent.
How does this work?
unidentified
Oh, good.
joe rogan
There you go.
I was listening to this podcast today.
They were talking about duck sticks.
suzanne santo
Are they still there?
joe rogan
Yeah, they're all there.
You look great.
It did not burn your...
unidentified
I've lost him before.
joe rogan
Suzanne, you did not burn your eyelashes.
suzanne santo
I gotta check.
joe rogan
No, no, no.
You barely touched the cigarette.
That was scary.
You flip it.
Delta 8. I got a story about Delta 8. That stuff's nonsense.
That should be illegal.
I'm with the state.
The state wants to ban it.
jamie vernon
There's HHC now, which is like even a derivative of that.
joe rogan
Ban that too.
jamie vernon
What?
joe rogan
These pussies need to go to war or stay home.
Either go to war or stay home.
We can't take fake weed over real weed.
If you can get the Delta 8, you should be able to get what Suzanne has.
suzanne santo
Lashes.
joe rogan
Eyelashes and Snoop Dogg weeds.
suzanne santo
So when my record came out in August, you know, like a lot of build-up, and then it came out on Thursday.
And Friday, a good friend of mine and Nick's gave us all these Delta 8s.
And I didn't know what Delta 8 was.
joe rogan
Edible or just smokeable?
suzanne santo
I had no idea.
And this might be child's play to you because you're you.
But I... Eat one, Friday, in the middle of the day.
joe rogan
Oh, I'm going to have to spark up another joint to hear this story.
suzanne santo
And I didn't know what I was getting into because it was street legal, and I'm in Texas, so I thought, like, you know, I lived in California for so long, I've had edibles and all that shit.
I was high until midday Sunday and fucking incapacitated.
And I was just like...
I had...
And I started to, like, do some research and ask around, and I apparently had, like, the equivalent of, like, 70 milligrams of THC. That's it?
Exactly.
I said, this is like Charles Pointy.
I'm a five mil kind of gal.
I'm lightweight.
joe rogan
I'm only a purple belt.
Joey Diaz is the grandmaster.
He's a coral belt.
I've been on planes with Joey Diaz, and I've been terrified, and I watch him pop two more extra 200 milligram ones in his mouth.
suzanne santo
That's fucking insane.
joe rogan
He's insane.
suzanne santo
That's insane.
joe rogan
I've seen it.
He goes, Joe Rogan, I was in the middle of a panic attack.
suzanne santo
Ha!
joe rogan
And then he takes these two more and he throws them down the hatch.
And I'm like, no!
We're like halfway across the country on our way to New Jersey and this guy is eating stars of death.
suzanne santo
No way.
It's crazy.
It's so potent.
joe rogan
They're so potent.
suzanne santo
I'm sensitive across the board.
joe rogan
But you and I are very different than Jamie.
Jamie can eat a thousand milligrams.
suzanne santo
I'm sorry.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
No bullshit.
Jamie might be an alien.
suzanne santo
Are you an alien?
joe rogan
I'm not kidding.
suzanne santo
When's your birthday?
joe rogan
He's the best one-handed goo-goo the world's ever known.
Is he?
suzanne santo
Are you Capricorn?
Congratulations.
joe rogan
The thing that's important about him, though, is he doesn't get high off of edibles.
It doesn't work on him.
suzanne santo
Can you get drunk?
joe rogan
Sure.
suzanne santo
Okay, cool.
joe rogan
There's something about edibles.
unidentified
What else can you do?
joe rogan
It's an edible thing.
It doesn't work.
He'd just sit there and stare at you.
suzanne santo
It's got a thousand milligrams in him.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Did you ever hear that story about a monk that, I forget who, went to visit him and gave him LSD. And they were trying to talk to these monks and tell them that this...
Yeah, sure.
They were trying to tell them that this thing that he had would bring him immediate instant bliss.
suzanne santo
Enlightenment.
joe rogan
Enlightenment.
And he ate like 50 doses worth and just laughs at the guy.
He goes, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, it didn't even work on them.
suzanne santo
Wow.
joe rogan
Now, I got this from Duncan Trussell, and he might have got it from someone who's really in love with crystals.
So no one can tell whether or not that's true.
But it might be true.
It sounds like a fun thing to say.
It's fun to think to some guy out there that doesn't have sex, that eats only tofu, and he's just breathing all day.
suzanne santo
Right.
joe rogan
And you give him an acid and he doesn't even blink.
suzanne santo
Well, actually, I know a couple people that have this immense capacity of meditation that Is, I would say, on par with psychedelics and acid and all that stuff.
joe rogan
No, I think so, too.
It's not on par with the actual experience when it's at its peak, but there's people that are sober, that don't need anything, that have a weird understanding of how things work.
jamie vernon
I told you there's a viral TikTok video a couple months ago, and now they've come up with a new term for this called Eddie Blocked.
There are people that are like me that are Eddie Blocked.
They're not able to get high off of edibles.
joe rogan
That makes sense.
jamie vernon
It's a key liver enzyme, apparently.
suzanne santo
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, we all know people who are alcoholics, right?
suzanne santo
But if you smoke, does that have a difference?
jamie vernon
I mean, I can get high instantly.
joe rogan
That's it right there?
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
Eddie Blocked.
Some people can't get high from eating marijuana.
There it goes.
You know what's interesting is...
I mean, I don't think people even fucking knew that it was different until like the 2000s when people found out about all the different metabolites that are created when you eat it.
11-hydroxy metabolite is a big one.
When you eat it, it's so different than smoking it.
suzanne santo
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, it's way different.
But it's four to five times more psychoactive.
So if you have like 20 milligrams of THC and then you eat it, it's a totally different experience than smoking it.
suzanne santo
Not to get too personal here, but they have those suppositories.
Hey!
joe rogan
What has Suzanne been doing?
suzanne santo
So, you know, they can personally...
joe rogan
Listen, there's nothing wrong with that.
suzanne santo
...only use them for severe menstrual cramps, which...
unidentified
What goes up must come down.
suzanne santo
And I can tell you, it's a great feeling.
But it's weird because it's just like in your abdomen in this way that like...
joe rogan
Oh, here we go.
jamie vernon
I just Googled.
joe rogan
Suppositories.
I typically take suppositories about 15 to 20 minutes to fully melt and absorb into the body, said Reeves.
Reeves sounds like a freak.
He sounds like he lives in Sedona and he's selling out memberships.
So if you're using them for sexual purposes, be sure to wait at least that long before penetration play.
Penetration play is the creepiest fucking two words together ever.
suzanne santo
Yeah, it's pretty weird.
It's pretty weird.
I've never used it for fun, but I've used it for pain, and it's pretty incredible.
joe rogan
Well, it's good.
It's the best way to get it into your bloodstream, right?
People are just scared of their butts.
suzanne santo
I'm not talking about my butt.
joe rogan
Oh, you go up the other way?
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, well, that works.
That makes sense.
But it says suppositories.
I'm thinking about butt.
suzanne santo
It's marketed as such.
joe rogan
Oh, vagina suppositories.
suzanne santo
Vagina, yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, suppositories that answer to better, less painful sex.
suzanne santo
But, you know, it's great for cramps.
joe rogan
That's awesome.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, look, it's a magic plant.
I mean, it does so many different things.
I'm a gigantic fan of CBD. Really?
suzanne santo
I always feel like I can't tell if it does anything.
joe rogan
If you have inflammation from exercise, if you have inflammation from all kinds of different weird things in life, there's two things you can do to change that.
One, alter your diet.
It might have something to do.
It might be genetic.
Yeah, it might be genetic, but it might also have something to do with the foods you're eating where you have a bad reaction to them.
Find out what that is.
They tell you to go on an elimination diet, like maybe you go all vegan or you go all carnivore, whatever the fuck it is.
It's like find out what keeps you from having this constant state of inflammation.
You might be allergic to something.
Two, you should probably check to see if you are allergic to something.
I'm sure I am.
Everybody is, right?
But the other thing they say is you've got to do something that's healthy for you that has these anti-inflammation properties to it.
And in my experience, CBD has been one of the best because when you work out a lot, you get sore joints.
suzanne santo
Do you take it as a tincture or something or as a topical?
joe rogan
Everything.
I take a topical.
I take oral.
I take gummies.
I eat gummies.
I take drops.
I do drops.
And you can feel a difference?
Yeah, 100%.
I've had what they would call turf toe, where my toes almost have arthritis from kicking things.
suzanne santo
Okay.
joe rogan
Because when you're kicking a heavy bag, you have this thing that's hanging there.
It's 150 pounds, and you're fucking stabbing it with the ball of your foot, and your toe gets compressed all the time.
And plus, you're pushing off of it, so there's a lot of repetitive use.
The thing that helps you more than anything is CBD. Oh, shit.
More than anything.
suzanne santo
But you attack it from all the angles you use.
joe rogan
I do, but I don't do any rub-on stuff on my toes.
I just take drops, or I take gummies.
unidentified
Cool.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think CBDMD has these super potent gummies, and I'll take like 10 of them.
And you get a little treat.
No, it doesn't get you high at all.
suzanne santo
No, I mean, they're sweet.
joe rogan
It's like a little candy.
unidentified
It's sugar.
joe rogan
But there's a lot of people that sell CBD mixed with THC. The problem with that is if you have a square job, like if you work somewhere where they're going to test your pee-pee, Like, Suzanne, we don't trust your body.
suzanne santo
They don't do that with musicians.
joe rogan
We gotta test your baby.
But if you did...
suzanne santo
They can back the fuck off.
joe rogan
Can you imagine if you worked for some firm?
suzanne santo
No.
joe rogan
And you're like, Suzanne, we would love to have you climb the corporate ladder.
suzanne santo
It was never in the cards for me.
Actually...
joe rogan
Check that urine.
suzanne santo
Never mind.
joe rogan
Piss in the bucket, please.
unidentified
Please?
suzanne santo
I think my only other option of a, like, other job would have been selling spaghetti and pizza in Cleveland.
joe rogan
That's not a bad job.
unidentified
Not a bad job.
joe rogan
People are happy.
It's a great job.
They eat good food.
They feel good when they eat.
suzanne santo
Well, you're entertaining, too.
There's something about feeding people.
I love to cook.
It's not a bad alternative.
joe rogan
It's a legitimate connection with people because it's like the pleasure centers of the brain are activated by good food.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
And also like comfort and friendship.
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
Food is love.
suzanne santo
All that stuff.
joe rogan
And the good one, good food is.
unidentified
Yeah.
Yeah.
suzanne santo
Yeah, I mean my...
joe rogan
Like wheatgrass juice is not really love.
suzanne santo
Not particularly.
joe rogan
I mean, it's not hate.
unidentified
If you drink wheatgrass, you're just deciding, I want to be healthy.
suzanne santo
Well, it's nice when you're in that zone of like, I'm taking care of myself and I know wheatgrass and ginger and all that stuff are good juice.
You know, it's good.
unidentified
It's good.
joe rogan
I think the wheatgrass lobby might have pulled a fucking fast one on us.
suzanne santo
Oh yeah?
You think it's bullshit?
joe rogan
I'm not buying it anymore.
It tastes terrible.
I feel like things that are good for you should taste good.
Up until like cake.
suzanne santo
This is funny.
Recently, a good friend of mine here in Austin told me about this stuff called black oxygen.
joe rogan
Oh, that's that bullshit they were talking about the other day, Jamie.
suzanne santo
Oh my God.
Okay, so I started taking it, Joe, and it's powder form.
joe rogan
It's dirt.
suzanne santo
You're eating dirt.
It's fulvic acid, which is minerals.
joe rogan
Which is dirt.
suzanne santo
So I was taking it, and then I was actually losing some weight.
unidentified
Of course you were.
joe rogan
You were dying.
You're eating dirt and you're dying.
suzanne santo
So Nick went to go buy us some more.
joe rogan
No, Nick!
unidentified
And you couldn't find it anywhere because literally- Because it's illegal!
suzanne santo
That day, I'm not kidding you.
That day was like December 6th or some shit.
It came out that this was like some fucking pyramid scheme.
joe rogan
Yeah.
suzanne santo
And there was arsenic and lead and you couldn't get it on Amazon.
You couldn't even find their website.
And I was like, oh my God.
Oh, so I've been poisoning myself.
joe rogan
Crazy is that that can be a thing.
suzanne santo
I'm fine, by the way.
joe rogan
Someone could literally sell dirt.
Like, I got an idea, bro.
Match a bunch of guys in a fucking apartment somewhere in Santa Monica.
suzanne santo
They've been doing this for centuries.
This has been like, this is a thing.
joe rogan
I know, but the fact that it got to you.
suzanne santo
It got to you.
It got to you.
joe rogan
Listen, if that ever comes up, please run it by me.
suzanne santo
Yeah, if someone gives me a new thing?
joe rogan
Yeah, I'll run it up the totem pole.
I'll get an answer, quick.
suzanne santo
Thank you, friend.
joe rogan
There's always someone who will go, hey, hey, hey.
No, No!
suzanne santo
Well, you know, the thing is, thank you.
I appreciate that.
I am after a life of health and vitality and joy, and so, you know, I exercise a lot, and I keep a fairly, you know, like, concise diet, give or take, getting stoned and eating cereal at midnight, but whatever.
joe rogan
Cereal is delicious.
suzanne santo
It's so good.
joe rogan
Why is it so good when it's so bad for you?
What's your, like, guilty pleasure?
unidentified
Which one?
joe rogan
If I had Peanut Butter Captain Crunch next to Count Chocula, which one are you going to grab?
suzanne santo
So we're more of the berry...
unidentified
Fruit Loops?
suzanne santo
We do Fruit Loops and kind of like...
joe rogan
Blueberry?
suzanne santo
But we'll get the organic Fruit Loops.
unidentified
Oh, that's bullshit.
joe rogan
No, no, no.
suzanne santo
I like Golden Grahams, too.
joe rogan
We had a sponsor for a while that had a keto breakfast cereal.
unidentified
Magic Spoon.
joe rogan
Magic Spoon.
Pretty fucking good.
suzanne santo
It's pretty good.
joe rogan
You know what?
It's like 70% of the taste with zero guilt.
suzanne santo
And I put honey on that, on that keto stuff.
joe rogan
Oh, you're a terrible person.
suzanne santo
No, honey's good.
joe rogan
That's not good.
suzanne santo
It's fucking natural.
joe rogan
No, no, no, you fuck up the whole vibe.
suzanne santo
No, it's okay.
joe rogan
No, you have no sugar.
suzanne santo
Maybe a little cinnamon.
Look, don't stop on my dreams.
joe rogan
Isn't it fucked that Sugar is such a siren song?
It just pulls you right into the rocks.
You're just like, I'll take it.
Give me the tiramisu.
unidentified
Crash!
joe rogan
Right into the rocks, face first.
I love tiramisu.
Tiramisu is my all-time favorite.
What are you, Italian?
unidentified
I'm a fucking Italian over here.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Tiramisu is my number one.
If I could have just tiramisu, if I went last day on earth, 100%.
Love it.
Big fan.
I have a compote on it or no.
I like a little fruit on top of it or no.
You don't like cheesecake?
That doesn't mean you're a bad Italian.
It means you recognize the tiramisu is better.
If tiramisu and cheesecake are right next to each other, the tiramisu looks like it's properly prepared.
The correct rule is to go with the tiramisu.
That stuff has to fuck with that cheesecake.
That stuff gets in the roof of your mouth.
It's okay.
Tiramisu is better.
Tiramisu is like, there's something about when they have the little cocoa powder on the top of the cream and the cheese.
Was it mascarpone cheese?
Oh my god!
It's so creamy.
You're such a bad person.
It's just so wonderful.
suzanne santo
I think that we have to enjoy these delicacies more.
joe rogan
Like that baby with the pizza.
suzanne santo
Yeah, exactly.
joe rogan
That's what we have to be.
suzanne santo
Like your Christmas.
Just eat your pie, Joe.
joe rogan
Eat your pie.
No, no, no.
suzanne santo
I ate too much pie.
Daddy's got a problem.
You're too determined.
joe rogan
That's the problem.
I add that to pie.
I'm determined to eat more pie.
Once I eat a piece of pie, I'm like, let's go!
suzanne santo
You're never going to turn into Fat Thor.
joe rogan
But it doesn't matter.
It's like Slayer songs start playing.
And then I want to conquer this fucking cherry pie.
It's not good.
No, you're going to be fine.
I don't appreciate that I'm going to feel like shit for like 12 hours afterwards.
That's the problem.
suzanne santo
12 hours?
joe rogan
Yeah.
suzanne santo
Did you sleep that night?
joe rogan
Yeah, okay.
But I always have like crazy nightmares.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like when you have too much sugar in your system, like your body's trying to fight off demons.
suzanne santo
Totally, totally.
I had a nightmare last night that I was late for the Rogan podcast like I did the last time and it was this real odyssey.
joe rogan
You were late last time?
suzanne santo
No, but I had the same dream that I was late.
But last time, Brad Pitt was my boyfriend, and I was late.
And I had it last night.
I was late, and I realized...
So it was like Nick and I were at this bar that I love called the Sagebrush here.
They have all these pool tables, and they always have live music, and it's great.
joe rogan
Where's that at?
suzanne santo
It's farther down on South Congress in Austin.
It's great.
It's just like a honky-tonk.
joe rogan
Oh, nice.
suzanne santo
And we shoot a lot of pool.
It's really fun.
joe rogan
Do you shoot like that bullshit bar pool, or do you shoot like a real table?
suzanne santo
What do you mean?
joe rogan
I don't want to shame you.
suzanne santo
Shame me?
joe rogan
Little tiny tables.
suzanne santo
No, they're full tables.
joe rogan
You put coins in?
Full tables.
suzanne santo
Oh yeah, you put coins in.
So that's a bar table.
joe rogan
You want a nine-foot table.
That's real pool.
Jamie, you're a basketball player.
If you played basketball in a tiny little bullshit room like this size, you retired from basketball?
jamie vernon
Yeah, last week.
joe rogan
Really?
unidentified
No.
Because of a ballback basketball player.
jamie vernon
I was actually shooting baskets last night for the first time in three years.
joe rogan
Let's say it this way.
Instead of basketball, because I know you actually have a wicked three-pointer, if golf was on a very small lot...
jamie vernon
Wow, it makes it easy.
joe rogan
Right.
It'd be a problem.
unidentified
It's a part three.
joe rogan
But it wouldn't be the same, right?
suzanne santo
Okay, okay, okay.
First of all, I beat you on your own table one time.
unidentified
What happened?
joe rogan
I scratched?
suzanne santo
No, you did not scratch.
joe rogan
You won?
suzanne santo
I did win.
joe rogan
Seems odd.
suzanne santo
No, it was...
joe rogan
I was probably trying to set you up for a bet.
suzanne santo
Gary was there too.
We had a witness.
Okay.
First of all, we're going to play after this.
unidentified
We'll see.
suzanne santo
Okay.
joe rogan
You can actually play a little pool.
You're a smart person.
You know where the ball's going.
You figure it out.
You think it through.
suzanne santo
I love pool.
unidentified
I know you do.
suzanne santo
I've played a lot, but you had a glove on the first time we played together.
joe rogan
Well, I have sweaty hands.
Here's the thing.
I'm fully aware when I put this glove on, I'm going to be made fun of.
I won't make fun of you.
It's like a little black glove.
suzanne santo
I respect you.
joe rogan
It's only over two fingers, folks.
Well, two fingers and a thumb.
It's because my fingers sweat, and I have these kamui gloves.
It makes the cue slide through my fingers better.
I know, it's a joke.
I'm like, while I'm doing it, I'm like, I'm a loser.
I know, but this is better.
suzanne santo
No, you're not.
First of all, you're a pool athlete, and you have passion, and I respect that.
Look, you get your gear, you know?
joe rogan
No, it's better with a glove than no glove.
That's the only reason why I do it.
suzanne santo
Don't I know it?
Not true.
joe rogan
You feel like a loser.
You do feel like a guy with a glove on.
But a lot of the best players, if you looked at all the best players in the world, I would say at least 50% of them are wearing pool gloves.
suzanne santo
I mean, it's like a delicacy.
It's like, how do you want to do this?
You're right.
I like playing not slop.
We don't play slop, but playing at the bar.
joe rogan
We can play slop.
suzanne santo
No, we're not going to play slop.
I know how to play.
We're not playing slop.
joe rogan
That's not why I said it.
suzanne santo
First of all, that's insulting.
joe rogan
It's fun.
It's fun to play wild.
The balls are wild.
That's how gamblers play.
When they gamble on nine ball, they play all the balls wild.
suzanne santo
Wait, what does that mean?
joe rogan
That means if you go to shoot a one ball in a side pocket.
suzanne santo
Oh, we're talking gambling on pool.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When you gamble a nine ball.
One of the reasons why nine ball is a gambler's game, and this goes back to decades and decades ago, is that nine ball is kind of a wild game in that all the balls are wild.
If you went to shoot the one ball in the corner, but you missed, and it bounced three rails and went into the side pocket, still good.
suzanne santo
Right.
joe rogan
Still good.
It counts.
Because the ball went in the hole.
You didn't have to want to make it in that hole.
But here's the thing.
suzanne santo
I prefer the intentional.
joe rogan
Right.
But it favors the person who makes the best shots, but the luck factor makes it exciting for people watching.
Because you can see a person who's a better person.
suzanne santo
Ah, I prefer skill over luck.
joe rogan
I do too, but there's something fun about watching a nine ball ricochet around a fucking table when someone missed and then go into the corner pocket.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
You're like, ah!
suzanne santo
I love the lottery.
It's exciting.
joe rogan
And gamblers love that.
suzanne santo
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
So the skillful players decided to invest in ten ball.
What ten ball is is nine ball plus another ball you have to call every shot.
suzanne santo
Okay.
joe rogan
So it's rotation the way nine ball is, but it also has no luck involved at all.
And then gamblers started moving towards that.
But that's a little trickier when you're betting on ten ball.
There's a difference between...
Sometimes you'll over-assess how good someone is at nine ball, and then you see them at ten ball.
That one extra ball that you have to maneuver around to knock that one into makes...
A giant percentage, maybe 10%, whatever it is.
There's a difference, yeah.
And if you played 15 balls, if you had to do those in rotation, then you would really see the difference in players.
There's a guy named Efren Reyes, arguably the greatest of all time from the Philippines.
One of the greats, for sure.
Played rotation, which is like a 15-ball game in the Philippines.
So you got so used to playing with 15 balls that nine balls was easy.
So when you came over to America, you had a way better sense of where the ball was going than people who just played nine balls.
It's a pool.
There's a thing going on with pool.
It's like testing where you are in the moment.
It's not just testing whether or not you know how to shoot a ball.
It's how together are you.
How bad do you hate yourself?
suzanne santo
100%.
100%.
Joe, you're so right.
I was literally talking to Nick about this last night.
I said, I compared that sentiment to other areas in my life where I was like, when I'm doubting myself, I'm like, I'm not going to make this.
But I can.
I have the skill.
I know how to play pool.
I'm actually pretty good.
But there's this mental game going on, just like tennis.
I love tennis.
When I play tennis, I'm pretty competitive.
I wouldn't normally admit that, but I've had a few in the S.I.M. competitive.
The mental game is everything.
I mean, you know.
And I can attribute that to pool in that way where before I even get to the table and I line it up, I'm like...
And I start doubting and telling myself, you know, whatever.
But...
When I'm in a different state of mind, and I'll have the table for five, six games in a row, and I've done it.
But it's a weird internal struggle I have with making more on Suzanne.
joe rogan
You should go pro.
Making war, Suzanne.
suzanne santo
I need to be nice to Suzanne.
joe rogan
There's a song there.
suzanne santo
I know.
I'm telling you.
I know.
I know.
She's cool.
joe rogan
Dude, we've been talking for almost three fucking hours.
suzanne santo
It's 420. I didn't know that.
joe rogan
How is that possible?
suzanne santo
Well, we have fun.
joe rogan
Jamie knows.
He's like, God, I'm so bored with this.
suzanne santo
Are you bored?
joe rogan
No.
unidentified
Oh.
joe rogan
I'm not.
Jamie is.
Look at him.
unidentified
Look at him.
joe rogan
He's falling asleep over there.
suzanne santo
What's your typical podcast time frame these days?
joe rogan
There's no...
I mean, it's usually generally around three hours everyone has to pee.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But we already peed.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, it's like...
suzanne santo
You know, those toilets are pretty low.
They're like squatty potties.
joe rogan
Some of them are.
Yeah, some of them are low.
In the ladies' room, apparently, they're very low.
In the men's room, they're normal size.
suzanne santo
It was fun.
I was like...
joe rogan
Yeah.
We've been here a whole year, but we still haven't totally figured this place out.
suzanne santo
It's wonderful.
unidentified
No, I think the Squatty Potty's great.
joe rogan
Squatty bodies are good.
Have you ever used that thing that you put under the feet of the toilet?
You sit on it?
suzanne santo
It's great.
joe rogan
You put your feet on it?
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's good.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
We're supposed to squat over holes.
suzanne santo
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
Isn't that nuts?
suzanne santo
There's this book called...
Oh, my God.
It's by...
Oh, boy.
It's about your digestive system and, like...
joe rogan
Your what?
suzanne santo
Your digestive system.
Sorry.
Your fault.
joe rogan
That's Buffalo Trace coming home.
Your digestive system.
It's like...
suzanne santo
Can you edit that out?
joe rogan
No, keep it in.
unidentified
Goddammit!
joe rogan
That part would keep it in.
Only the legal stuff would get out.
The problem is we can get Ed and happy.
unidentified
It's about your digestive system.
suzanne santo
The name is escaping me right now, but it's amazing what happens.
First of all, the minute you have a forkful of food coming towards your mouth and your senses and all the things going on inside your mouth, like these trash cans of saliva that are going to grab whatever's bad and whatever's good and all your nutrients and all that stuff.
Our bodies are fascinating.
They're freaking fascinating.
But anyway, this book gives you this whole rundown start to finish on what happens when you're ingesting food and it's going through your digestive system.
It's like, what the heck?
And we're back.
But like, lost it, found it.
Just the way that we're made up, anyway.
joe rogan
Nature is bizarre.
Our digestive systems are really strange.
The idea that there's a bunch of bacteria living down there that gives us an appetite for certain foods.
People that start eating healthy, they start craving healthy foods.
They start craving salmon and shit.
suzanne santo
Well, if you have candida, your sugar intake is through the roof.
And a lot of people do.
joe rogan
A lot of people do.
We're an ecosystem.
That's the weirdest part about being a person that's never, I mean, very rarely discussed that there's more bacteria living in your gut than have ever been people ever.
There's a bunch of weird factors that attribute to your personality.
suzanne santo
Well, your gut health and your mental health are very related.
They're directly related.
joe rogan
The problem is we look at it in terms of a bunch of different systems working together.
I think we should look at it as one big system that has a bunch of different entities to it.
And if you had that, you'd be like, oh, I'm going to pour sand in the engine.
Don't worry about it.
It's fine.
It's only pie.
But that's what we're doing.
It's only pie.
suzanne santo
It's delicious.
joe rogan
I'm pouring delicious sand into the fucking gears.
I've got a bag.
That's what it's like.
And we're accustomed to doing it.
I'm not saying that it shouldn't be an option, but I'm saying that we need to be way more vocal about what this is.
suzanne santo
I agree.
Here's a question.
I mean, you're a very healthy guy.
You have your body down to a science, right?
In a way?
joe rogan
I have my body down to a pseudoscience.
suzanne santo
But you have the resources and you exercise in a way that your body is very important to you.
I work out a lot, yes.
But on top of that, you also experience enlightenment in various forms of meditation or maybe psychedelics or whatever it is that works for you.
And my question to you is, do you feel a difference when you have achieved a level of, it's not even self-awareness, it's kind of like an overall, like maybe spiritual and physical and mental awareness, where you introduce or reintroduce a contaminant or sugar, where you feel it harder than you did maybe when you were a kid, right?
joe rogan
I think you feel it harder when you're a kid, and I think you also feel it harder when you're more aware of how...
suzanne santo
I don't think you feel it harder when you're a kid.
When you're a kid, you're just like, fucking cupcakes.
joe rogan
No, no, no, no.
You feel it harder as an adult than when you were a kid.
unidentified
Got it, got it.
joe rogan
That's what I meant.
Like, now, as a 54-year-old, if I eat cupcakes...
unidentified
You're 54?
joe rogan
I'm 54. You look great.
Thank you.
My friend, Suzanne.
If I eat cupcakes today, I feel them very differently than if I ate cupcakes when I was 20. When I was 20, it was like thrown into a volcano.
It would just burn off, and that would be the end of it.
suzanne santo
It's just like a trash bag.
It didn't matter.
joe rogan
It didn't matter.
But that's the case with all of us.
But there's also a thing where I think I'm more aware of how what I eat affects my body, whereas back then I was just like, I was just fucking bouncing into walls with blinders on and I don't think I was necessarily that aware.
I think I was like more engine, less traction.
suzanne santo
Sure.
joe rogan
I was a lot of like sliding into trees.
There's a lot of acceleration not under control.
And I think that's the same with my diet.
Because I think that when you're young and you eat like three pizzas, you don't even think about it.
But then when you're tired, you don't put the two and two together.
You don't go, oh my god, I feel like shit because I ate three pizzas.
You just feel like shit for whatever random reason.
I can't wait to feel good again.
And you just keep eating the same kind of food.
But when you get older, you are more vulnerable to your choices.
You feel your food choices differently.
But also, you've had a conversation with your body for more years.
So as the more years go on, the more you and your body have this understanding of the requirements.
Me and my body will have little arguments.
My body will talk to the brain and go, hey pussy.
What are we doing?
We need to do something.
We're getting annoyed at people.
It's time to go to the gym, fuckface.
And then my brain would be like, it's good to have rest and recovery.
And then the body will shut up, bitch.
suzanne santo
I think that's where that Sarno stuff comes in play for me.
Not in the overall view.
joe rogan
Explain that, because we were talking about that before we started the podcast.
suzanne santo
Right.
So Nick introduced me to the Dr. Sarno Methods.
joe rogan
It's John Sarno.
suzanne santo
John Sarno, yeah.
Because I would get these repetitive, it would start in my specifically right shoulder blade up my neck to the back of my skull and I wouldn't be able to like turn my head and it would lock and I would always attribute it to like, oh, I slept funny or like I've been playing music even if I weren't playing music.
And so I was married to this narrative that wasn't necessarily true.
And it was mostly mental.
And mind you, if I had an injury, that'd be one thing.
But this was that Sarno...
You know, ethos of like you have repressed emotions or you have something that you're not acknowledging.
joe rogan
Like a psychosomatic thing, right?
suzanne santo
Exactly.
He calls it TMS. What is that?
It stands for tension mitosis syndrome.
So what happens is your brain fires off Your repressed emotions and it manifests in your body and it's real pain.
It's not made up.
And so my muscles are deprived of, like your myofascial is deprived of oxygen, which creates this lock in your shoulder blade, which is where it would show up for me.
joe rogan
How is your myofascia deprived of oxygen?
suzanne santo
Because your brain, it's your repressed emotions and they're putting it somewhere.
joe rogan
So it's like your brain makes the muscle contract or something?
suzanne santo
It's putting this anger or unresolved thing in your body.
And specifically what happens is your myofascia is deprived of oxygen which then makes the muscle lock.
joe rogan
Is this a theory of what the mechanism is or has this actually been proven by studies?
suzanne santo
I think it's been proven by studies.
I mean, I've read his books, and I've watched a bunch of YouTube videos, so I'm not an expert on it, but I can tell you from my life, when I recognized that my pain was potentially ostensibly emotional, I started examining, well, what are you really feeling?
And it's sort of meditative in that way.
And I'll be honest.
When I've had moments of tension where I was having an argument or something, or I was getting bad news in an email, and I'd start to feel whatever.
Maybe my stomach hurt, and I get a lot of stomach aches, and that's definitely a manifestation of my emotions.
I would take a different approach rather than be like, oh, fuck, I've got to get some Rolaids, and I've got to lay down, and I have this routine that I've had for a long time.
And I would approach it differently.
And I have been approaching it differently.
And it's really been interesting.
And mind you, we were talking about this earlier, about if you have actual pain from residual, whether it's...
You were talking about jujitsu and oxygen deprivation from holds and things.
Right.
I can just speak for myself.
I'm not an expert.
But when I would entertain even the idea that, you know, Suze, this is...
I think you're mad about something else and you should sit with that.
My shoulder would change.
joe rogan
Right, so you were just clenched up.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
The pain is real.
That's the thing.
The pain is not an idea.
You're actually having a thing that fucking sucks.
joe rogan
And I think it's important also to say there's two different things.
There's someone who's been in a car accident and clearly has a fucked up back, and that's causing them pain.
And then someone where they can look at an MRI or an X-ray and they go, we don't know what's wrong, but you're in agony.
suzanne santo
Yes.
But when you go back to like our caveman cells, like if you – we neglect to remember that our bodies are really incredible.
They heal themselves.
And like a lot of our injuries are like residual, like pharmaceutical, like you have restless leg syndrome, so you have to take this.
Like, you know, a lot of that stuff is really mental.
But we marry ourselves to this, like, oh, yeah, that's right.
I got a bad back.
Or me, I have bad feet, so I'm going to have this and this.
And so I would just, like, subscribe to this idea rather than give myself the...
I have the opportunity to be a healthy living adult that has a lot of, like, you know, I'm not broken.
unidentified
Right.
suzanne santo
But I've thought that for a long time.
I've thought, like, oh, man, I got bad feet, so I'm going to have bad knees and a bad back.
joe rogan
But you always say, like, the bad feet thing.
Like, have you ever looked at, like, foot strengthening exercises?
suzanne santo
Oh, yeah, no, I got yoga toes.
joe rogan
Do they help?
unidentified
Yeah, they do.
They do, right?
suzanne santo
And yoga helps a lot.
joe rogan
Well, they really should.
We're all supposed to have fingers, or toes, rather, splay out, like, fingers.
suzanne santo
Correct.
joe rogan
Yeah.
suzanne santo
So this is what I'm saying.
This idea that you can sort of reconnect with your natural physical being as opposed to like, you got this, you should take this medicine for this.
And just thinking for a long time that you have an issue that you ostensibly don't have.
Mind you, if you have an accident or something that might require more attention, that's different.
But I've recognized recently that a lot of my shoulder and neck issues are specifically emotional.
joe rogan
Well, I think there's a lot of people for sure that are experiencing that.
There's a lot of people for sure that are experiencing a lot of tension.
And especially now, like more than ever in our lives, right?
Like when have you ever been alive where people are this fucking tense?
suzanne santo
No.
Well, I mean, what you were saying earlier about Like our line of work in entertainment and like we don't get to create.
We don't get an audience.
joe rogan
Yeah, we get locked out of what we do.
suzanne santo
But other people, their jobs are their passion and things that they love.
joe rogan
They get locked out of that too.
How about chefs?
A lot of people that worked in restaurants got fucked.
It became a real goddamn shit show for those folks.
And how about teachers who are terrified?
Thank you.
How about teachers that are terrified?
suzanne santo
The Lord's work.
joe rogan
We're making it happen.
There's so many teachers out there that are terrified of their kids getting them sick and then they're dying.
They're really worried.
If you're a teacher and maybe you haven't been concentrating on your health and all of a sudden going to school is not just you're going to take care of some kids and give them some ideas and help them to educate themselves and evolve their view of the world, now you might die.
Now you might die.
Now your job is a new thing.
suzanne santo
Do you believe that?
joe rogan
100%.
For some people, they definitely might die.
It's just how many?
What's the percentage?
For sure.
I know people that have gotten fucked up by COVID. And I know people that just breezed through it.
And I know people that got fucked up by Delta.
And I know people that got this new one, Omicron, and it's been nothing for them.
So fortunately, that's the way this is headed with this particular variant, is that it's more contagious than ever, but it's less virulent.
It's not rough on most people.
And they've only recorded, I think, seven deaths, or maybe nine deaths worldwide.
I don't know how many deaths worldwide have been from Omicron.
But only one of them in the United States, and they kind of abandoned that.
They had this idea that this guy was...
They said he definitely tested positive when he died, but he had pre-existing conditions that they think may have been the cause of death.
Whatever it is.
But that's one.
Only one person.
So who knows how many fucking hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, have caught it over the last month or so.
It's been a viral blizzard.
A hurricane, would they say?
suzanne santo
Blizzard.
You know, I got caught on to the Alex Berenson stuff in his research.
And then I personally don't know anyone who died from COVID. But I know people telling me, family members, and I have so much respect for that.
I have empathy, sympathy, all the things.
I'm sensitive to that.
I'm not going to tell you that I know any better.
Sounds a little mean.
joe rogan
When I hear but, I'm always like, well, here comes the hard stuff.
suzanne santo
But the thing that's confusing me now is this Christmas season, so many people I know are like, oh, I couldn't go home because we tested positive even though so-and-so is asymptomatic.
And we tested positive, but thank God we were only sick for two days.
I'm confused by there are not bodies piling up in the streets.
joe rogan
Not with this new one.
Well, we're really lucky.
This could be the end.
This could be the end of the pandemic.
suzanne santo
I hope so.
I hope so.
joe rogan
It could be if it imparts real immunity to people that catch it.
Like that this immunity lasts for the next variant and the immunity that we used to have previously.
It's not 100% guaranteed with this variant.
Like people have been sick for COVID and Peter McCullough actually admitted this recently on Twitter.
He said that the variant that we used to have, like the Delta, if you had had the Alpha, you were immune to the Delta.
But if you've had previous infection to COVID, you may not necessarily be immune to Omicron.
So even if you're a person who survived COVID that before, like a month ago, they thought wasn't going to get COVID again, you might get this one.
suzanne santo
But you just said Omicron, like one person is reported as...
joe rogan
Yeah, one, but they don't even think that that's how he died anymore.
They kind of abandoned that idea.
They think he was already going to die, but he tested positive when he died.
But he was fucked.
No offense intended.
suzanne santo
Again, like, approaching sensitively to people that have had difficult times with this, I think the obsession with our...
joe rogan
Okay, UK says 14 deaths and 129 hospitalized by Omicron.
Well, clearly they're run by dictators and they're lying to the people.
suzanne santo
Right?
But that's what I'm saying.
unidentified
Kidding.
suzanne santo
I don't know.
joe rogan
That sounds reasonable though.
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
How many people in the UK? I don't know.
suzanne santo
All I do know is like, I think it was 2016, I had the worst flu of my life.
I don't remember a couple days.
I was so fucking sick.
Like I literally, I couldn't speak.
I missed out on shows and I don't remember like two whole days.
And that was 2016, and I had the flu.
But back then, you just got better.
And I wasn't right for a couple months.
A couple months, really?
I was getting my strength back up.
I was sleeping so hard.
I was so tired all the time.
And then I got better.
And I can only speak for my own life and my human experience.
And...
And like I said, I have so much respect for anyone who's had a really hard time with this specifically death of loved ones or their own illness.
I would like to have a conversation and understand.
What you've experienced, but I do believe that what's on the news is so manipulative in terms of fear-mongering and trying to get us to think something that may not be what it is.
And I want to be a part of the solution and positivity, but the way that things are being run is really fucking scary.
joe rogan
Well, it's really scary in that...
suzanne santo
Because I don't know what's real.
joe rogan
We're monitoring, we're making money off of what's killing people.
Like, whatever the numbers are.
Like, if you talk about the numbers, if the numbers are exaggerated, it's more beneficial to the person that's reporting the story.
Because more people are going to read it.
If you say a thousand people died this week from COVID, way more people are going to read that than zero people died.
So instead of saying this new variant seems to be like a cold and if we take care of ourselves and if we look after our immune systems we can get through this and also potentially gain herd immunity.
Imagine if they just set that out there.
They put it out there like, we're going to give you guys a little emotional and anxiety treat.
We're going to tell you.
We might be okay.
Because this one variant that seems to be really prevalent and impossible to stop, like even that crazy lady on CNN, that Asian lady that's always talking about doom and gloom, she's the end of times lady.
You know that lady?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know that lady?
She was like, she goes, cloth facial masks are no more than decorations.
Cloth masks are facial decorations.
She said it on CNN. You heard that?
jamie vernon
Yeah, we played it the other day.
joe rogan
Doom and gloom!
She said cloth masks don't work.
She was trying to scare people into wearing like fucking hazmat suits.
But really what she made people realize like this whole year of wearing these masks, of course, if air is getting in, what else?
How much protection is it giving you?
But also you're ingesting your own- But is it giving you 10%?
What percent of protection is it giving you?
Is it even giving you 10%?
suzanne santo
I don't think so.
joe rogan
It might be giving you something.
It might be giving you something.
But what's the number?
I want to fucking study.
suzanne santo
Well, you know who to talk to?
All the people that want to see here.
joe rogan
The problem is all the people that I talk to say controversial things.
suzanne santo
I'm just a musician.
I can only tell you that I keep getting denied access because you have to be vaccinated and show a negative test.
Like all that stuff makes no sense to me.
joe rogan
Wow.
How are you doing?
We're in the middle of all kinds of weirdness, Suzanne.
All kinds of weirdness.
We're all trying to figure this out.
But we have to have a commitment to, like...
Wanting friendship.
A commitment to wanting it to be worked out in a positive way.
suzanne santo
I do.
joe rogan
And I know you do.
And I do too.
And Jamie does too.
unidentified
I'm just a lover.
joe rogan
Jamie's a little sketchy.
Sometimes he gets antisocial.
He plays video games.
He's a golfer.
suzanne santo
Jamie, I would really like to hang out with you soon.
joe rogan
We should play golf with Jamie.
suzanne santo
We can watch the Browns break our hearts.
joe rogan
Play golf with him.
He's a fucking assassin.
Jamie's going to be on the tour.
I'm going to lose him to the tour.
It's going to be an issue.
Right?
It's possible, right?
Yeah, he's a sicko.
Look at him.
He's a sicko.
jamie vernon
Looking for sponsors.
joe rogan
Golf is a real problem.
suzanne santo
Looking for sponsors?
joe rogan
Golf's a problem for this show.
It's a sick game.
Makes people sick people.
suzanne santo
Do you golf?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
I'm scared.
I would like it.
I'm sure I would love it.
I see Jamie and fucking Hinchcliffe.
Their eyes light up.
Ron White, his eyes light up when you talk about golf.
Fitzsimmons, his eyes light up.
They love golf.
Fuck that game.
jamie vernon
Oh, weird.
Something everybody likes.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's what I'm saying.
suzanne santo
Is it meditative for you?
jamie vernon
No, definitely not.
suzanne santo
Are you competitive with it?
jamie vernon
Yeah, with myself.
joe rogan
Super competitive.
suzanne santo
How are you with Putnam?
joe rogan
Listen to me.
He has a computer set up in the back where he has a net that he drives into, and the computer tracks the speed of his ball and how far it's going to go, given the certain trajectory as it hits the net.
suzanne santo
Okay.
joe rogan
Am I saying anything wrong?
jamie vernon
It's a simulation of golf.
joe rogan
Look at him.
He's a robot over there.
He's like that guy that winds up killing that dude in that fucking alien movie.
unidentified
Are we in the Matrix?
joe rogan
For sure.
For sure we're in the Matrix.
Jamie, are we in the Matrix?
jamie vernon
Could be.
Why wouldn't?
I mean, sure.
joe rogan
Well, here's the problem with that.
You thought the movie was good, but Suzanne thought it sucked.
So, like, what are we doing here?
jamie vernon
I don't like hearing people's opinions on movies I want to see before I've seen them.
suzanne santo
Wait, you haven't seen it?
jamie vernon
No, no, no.
I have.
unidentified
Oh.
jamie vernon
But it goes in...
I had already heard people saying it sucked before it came out.
It fucks with you.
You're like, wait, why do you think it sucks?
suzanne santo
I didn't hear that.
jamie vernon
Did you like it to begin with?
suzanne santo
I went in a virgin.
I had no...
jamie vernon
All right, so did you like the other Matrix movies?
suzanne santo
I did.
I loved them.
I loved them.
jamie vernon
How many times did you see them?
joe rogan
Which ones did you love?
suzanne santo
I can't say I've seen the third one enough.
jamie vernon
Alright, so did you play the Matrix video games?
joe rogan
Let me tell you something about the third one.
suzanne santo
But you have.
joe rogan
If you saw the third one once, you saw it enough.
The first one's the movie.
The problem with the Matrix is they get incrementally less dynamic or something.
What is it?
What is it about the second one?
They're burdened down.
All of them are burdened down by the power of the first one.
So you have to follow all the narratives that were established in the first one.
suzanne santo
Until a certain point where they...
joe rogan
But like anytime you make a sequel...
jamie vernon
How's Avatar gonna stand up?
joe rogan
James Cameron's the baddest motherfucker who's ever done movies, son.
jamie vernon
I know, but I mean...
joe rogan
He's got his own Rolex.
jamie vernon
So if it does, like it's 10 years, you know, how long ago was that even?
unidentified
That was a long time ago.
joe rogan
James Cameron has his own Rolex.
Martin Scorsese has his own Rolex.
jamie vernon
James Cameron did Terminator 2, and that is way better than the first one.
joe rogan
Cameron did Terminator 2?
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
He's the baddest motherfucker that's ever done movies.
He knows how to make movies.
He knows how to make...
He took Alien, and he said, I got an idea.
How about they're easy to kill, but they're infinite?
They're everywhere.
suzanne santo
Right, right, right.
joe rogan
He changed the movie.
The first movie, you can argue that the first movie was more terrifying, because I think it was, because we had never seen anything like that before.
1979, Sigourney Weaver.
It's one of the best movies in terms of inclusiveness.
suzanne santo
She's wonderful, by the way.
joe rogan
The heroine, the female's the hero of an action, science fiction horror movie.
She's the hero.
She kills the monster.
It's the first of its kind, ever.
And it's so good, no one notices.
suzanne santo
What do you mean?
joe rogan
No one notices that a woman was the hero.
False!
It's just so good.
No, no, no.
I'm not saying they don't notice it was Sigourney Weaver.
I'm saying it doesn't become a narrative.
The narrative is this movie is fucking awesome.
Sigourney Weaver is fucking awesome.
It's never a woman finally gets a role at the number one role in a monster movie where she kills and saves the earth from the evil fucking...
suzanne santo
Right, the peripherals.
joe rogan
No one cares.
They just care.
Sigourney Weaver's awesome.
The movie's awesome.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it was so goddamn terrifying.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then James Cameron comes along and he says, okay, that first one was really hard to kill, but the ones that I'm putting in this movie are retarded.
And they're just gonna run right into your guns.
And they're everywhere.
And they're just shooting them down.
They're just gunning them down.
suzanne santo
Is that Alien 2?
Yes, Aliens.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
But it's a totally different kind of movie.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
That's a ballsy move.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
The aliens are easy to kill in that movie.
There's so many of them.
They're gunning them down.
suzanne santo
I got to work with Sigourney Weaver once.
Back when I was an actor.
She's great.
joe rogan
Did you get a girl crush?
suzanne santo
I did.
And, like, she wrote me a letter.
Like, I got it in the mail from her Cartier, you know, what do you call it?
Oh, my God.
I've had some buffalo trays.
joe rogan
Jamie's fancy.
suzanne santo
She knows about Cartiers.
And she just wrote me a really nice letter about enjoying working with me.
Stationary.
I still have it.
jamie vernon
Is that the word you're looking for?
unidentified
Stationary?
suzanne santo
Stationary.
Thank you.
I could not think of stationary.
unidentified
Cartier!
suzanne santo
I was like, what is she trying to say?
Thank you, Jamie.
Boy, am I embarrassing myself.
But she was amazing.
She was lovely.
joe rogan
Yeah, she's a beast.
That lady's been in some fucking ferocious movies.
suzanne santo
Especially those alien movies.
She's a very present, nice person.
She wasn't acting like a big dog.
She was working.
And it was very cool.
joe rogan
That's very nice.
She was also an avatar, right?
jamie vernon
I was going to say also an avatar.
joe rogan
Yeah, also an avatar.
suzanne santo
Wait, is there a second?
joe rogan
Big time scientist.
Yeah, they're working on multiple avatars simultaneously.
Because I think they take so long to do that it's probably better to just keep the people there and keep them working.
suzanne santo
Well, do you remember the first one?
How groundbreaking it was?
joe rogan
Did you see it in 3D? I did.
suzanne santo
Me too!
joe rogan
You know, it's funny.
We were talking about 3D the other day, and I forgot about Avatar 3D, because that's one of the...
jamie vernon
That's what it was, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah.
It was better.
suzanne santo
Well, that was the way to see it.
I mean, you could see it in the regular theater, but...
Theater.
joe rogan
I think that concept...
jamie vernon
They sold 3D TVs because people were going to be watching Avatar at home.
joe rogan
You're right.
jamie vernon
You can't watch this without it.
joe rogan
Yeah, I remember we went to Best Buy.
We were trying to get TVs for the studio.
We went to Best Buy looking at TVs and they had a 3D TV. I was like, oh, what is this?
And it was weird.
suzanne santo
Did you get the glasses?
joe rogan
It's kind of 3D. Did you need glasses for those 3D TVs?
jamie vernon
Yeah, of course.
joe rogan
It was kind of glasses?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know what Samsung has now?
I was just at the Verizon store the other day.
suzanne santo
The 3D cell phone?
joe rogan
Oh my God.
They have this fucking thing where you put glasses on.
Don't.
suzanne santo
Are you serious?
joe rogan
Yeah, you put goggles, they're like glasses.
They look like a pair of Roka sunglasses.
You put glasses on and inside the glasses, it's like a screen.
You're watching like a giant movie screen.
So say if you want to watch Netflix, On a Samsung phone, you put these fucking glasses, like if you're on a plane, say if you're on a plane, you're flying back to Cleveland, you put a pair of these glasses on, you watch Netflix on your phone, like maybe a movie you downloaded already, it's inside the fucking screen, like you are watching a giant movie screen.
It's crazy.
It's high resolution.
It's beautiful.
suzanne santo
Have you seen it?
Have you done it?
Yes!
joe rogan
I put it on at the Verizon store.
It's a lot like that.
suzanne santo
Okay.
joe rogan
But it's real clear you're wearing something.
Like you can see down low.
suzanne santo
I can't keep up, man.
joe rogan
It's just glasses.
Like it doesn't like cover your face totally like it's a vacuum seal.
So like you can see, like if you look down, you see your shirt.
But the thing is like when you're watching this screen, they had like a documentary, a nature documentary.
When you watch these animals moving around, you're like...
suzanne santo
Whoa!
joe rogan
Because it's like 4K quality, but it's enormous, and it's on glasses.
And you're like, holy shit!
suzanne santo
There's this part of me that's excited about that stuff.
I'm like, wow!
And there's this part of me that's fucking freaked out and scared.
joe rogan
You should be freaked out.
It freaked me out.
suzanne santo
Because it really tampers with your...
That's it.
joe rogan
What that guy's wearing right there is it.
So what he's doing is he's wearing glasses.
They're just like standard sunglasses, like they kind of have in my truck.
But in those glasses, there's something that projects a screen that literally looks like a 100-inch perfect 4K screen.
The quality is spectacular.
So what you're seeing when you have those glasses on is amazing.
But this is one of those things that Apple doesn't have yet.
I don't think it works on an Apple, does it?
jamie vernon
So these are for Samsung.
There's been a strong rumor Apple's releasing something this year for the phone.
joe rogan
That's how it always is, right?
Apple waits a little longer and they make one that won't crash.
jamie vernon
They don't like to be the first.
suzanne santo
You know what I'm interested in, though?
I'm interested in, like, yeah, that's cool.
That's amazing.
Oculus.
unidentified
Yeah.
suzanne santo
You're in this three-dimensional...
You're experiencing an alternate reality in a lot of ways.
But I like the things that stand the test of time, like Lethal Weapon, you know?
Where I'm still entertained and their effects or whatever they have going and their level of technology still has me grabbed, you know?
This stuff, you're just inundated with something new so...
Frequently.
Remember when the iPod came out before the iPhone?
With the wheel?
Yeah, with the wheel.
It was like the one thing, right?
But now there's like 12, 20. And I acknowledge it.
I respect it even.
unidentified
But to my...
suzanne santo
Human experience, it's a fucking lot.
joe rogan
It's a lot to every human experience.
suzanne santo
There's some people that are really, really adept to technology, and that's great.
But I just want to take a walk in the woods and not get a Lyme disease tick.
joe rogan
Well, you know, Cat Williams had this line once.
Cat Williams had this line where he was talking about, well, they trick you that there's 24 hours in a day.
And he's like, there ain't 24 hours in a day.
He goes, it gets dark out, like 12 hours in.
And that's how they tricked you into giving up eight of your hours of the day to work in.
And it's really interesting.
When you think about it that way, you're like, oh.
So you think about technology or anything else, and you realize you only have so many hours of the day to think about things.
So if you're thinking about technology or you're thinking about whatever you're thinking about.
You're worried about asteroids, whatever it is.
suzanne santo
Funny you should mention.
joe rogan
It takes away from the time you're thinking about other stuff.
It just does.
suzanne santo
Yes.
joe rogan
It doesn't mean that you should just think about nothing other than what pleases you and allow the world to go to shit around you.
It doesn't mean that.
But it also means there's a balance to be had.
suzanne santo
Correct.
joe rogan
And if you're spending too much time thinking about things that freak you out or anger you or frustrate you or you disagree with or people that are pieces of shit and fuck them.
suzanne santo
Cunts.
joe rogan
Yeah, fucking cunts.
It's like that's bad for all of us.
And we need to know this.
We need to talk about this.
And we need to stop being angry at people that gave in to that very normal base human emotion of anger and aggression.
And instead of like being completely connected to the idea that those people are pieces of shit for life, which is only going to keep them in that same cycle of behavior.
Just let everybody look.
Okay, let's relax.
Let's all relax.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
If we all, like legitimately, I know this would never happen, but if we all shared resources, if like we said, hey, there's only a certain amount of natural resources on the planet Earth, there's a certain amount of people, there's too many people living in poverty, we're going to distribute this stuff fairly evenly across the world.
We're not saying that you don't make more money if you work harder and you like establish a business, you figure something out and you innovate.
We're not saying that, but what we're saying is natural resources like oil and shit and all that stuff.
We're going to just distribute that evenly.
Can we agree to disagree that all our problems we have with religion and socioeconomic policies, all these different things, at the very least- Is it socialism?
We all have the earth.
No, the fucking earth.
No one should own the blood of the earth.
What's oil?
It's the blood of the earth.
They're sucking blood out of our mothership.
And we are like, listen, it all happens to be in Oklahoma, and you've got to poison the well to get it.
Whether it's fracking or anything else, that should be everybody's.
suzanne santo
I was in Oklahoma once when there was an earthquake, and I was so confused.
I woke up, I remember being all excited because this was years ago, and I just watched Game of Thrones, a really disturbing episode.
Which one?
joe rogan
The Red Wedding?
suzanne santo
It was the Red Wedding.
It was.
Straight up, it was the Red Wedding.
And I was all fucked up about it.
And then I woke up to a violent earthquake, and it was really scary.
I'd lived in California for almost 20 years, and I went downstairs and I asked the front desk, I was like, do you guys get a lot of earthquakes here or something?
And they were like, no, it's because of the fracking.
joe rogan
That's the thing.
suzanne santo
Yeah, it was really scary.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's real.
That's real.
They're literally drilling holes.
suzanne santo
Tampering.
joe rogan
Under the earth.
unidentified
They've caused a shit ton of earthquakes with fracking.
suzanne santo
I was in this historical hotel and they were like, yeah, things are getting weird.
joe rogan
But we're selling oil to Russia.
Everything's great.
I don't know if we're selling oil to Russia.
Who are we selling oil to?
We're selling oil to people, right?
suzanne santo
I think we're going to really see some shit in this life that we, like, and we've seen a lot thus far, but I don't know, man.
joe rogan
Yeah.
suzanne santo
Like, it's weird.
You know, you want to be informed, right?
You want to know.
joe rogan
Top five sources.
suzanne santo
But then once you know, you can't unknow.
jamie vernon
Import it from them.
joe rogan
Oh, we import from them?
jamie vernon
That's what it says.
joe rogan
Oh, top five source countries of U.S. gross petroleum imports.
Interesting.
jamie vernon
But I asked who we sell it to, in my question.
joe rogan
And it says we sell it to Mexico, Russia...
suzanne santo
But that's not going to be on the internet, you guys.
joe rogan
Oh, they sell it to us?
jamie vernon
That's why, I mean...
suzanne santo
Don't you think that, like, this is not public knowledge?
jamie vernon
Yeah, it has to be, almost.
suzanne santo
And I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
I try not to be, but...
joe rogan
I think this country needs a president that gets to be president for, like, 50 years.
suzanne santo
Oh my God.
Jesus Christ.
joe rogan
I think after four years you're like barely getting your feet wet and they yank out of office and go, fuck you.
You hate immigrants.
And they shove some new person in and this new person doesn't know what the fuck they're doing.
It takes them like a year and a half before they figure it out.
suzanne santo
I mean, how's that any different from what's happening now?
joe rogan
Right, it isn't any different, but the thing is, like, here's the thing.
It's not good if someone's corrupt.
It's not good if someone's a criminal.
It's not good if someone's violent.
We all agree to that.
But it's also not good if you don't know how to do the job, and it's the most important job in the world, and a new person comes in every four years.
unidentified
I mean, both those things are terrible, right?
suzanne santo
Well, it's corrupt at the ground level, because in order to run For Congress, it's up...
True story.
It's upward from like $30,000 to $50,000 a day to run.
joe rogan
Really?
suzanne santo
So you can't be like...
joe rogan
$50,000 a day?
suzanne santo
You can't be an over...
I mean, and no one's called that corruption.
No one has said, oh, like, well, you have to have a major machine behind you in order to run for Congress.
joe rogan
Has that...
That's always been the case, right?
But is that the case currently?
suzanne santo
That is legal.
joe rogan
But what if someone had like a really strong social media presence?
Like, what if someone like...
suzanne santo
That's never happened.
joe rogan
But what if that did happen?
What if someone, like, who was already a big social media person...
suzanne santo
I prefer, like, an overqualified, you know, intellectual who has...
joe rogan
How about a suicide bomber?
unidentified
Oh, my God.
Oh, Jesus Christ.
joe rogan
No, no, I think of overqualified intellectual too, but the problem with overqualified intellectuals is oftentimes they've spent a large portion of their life in academia.
So they've gone from being in school to graduate school to eventually teaching to like they're a part of this system and Although that's amazing that they can do that, and in the best case scenario, it allows them to be professional intellectuals and to dissect ideas at the highest level in ways that people like you or I or many other people probably wouldn't have access to the right resources or sharp minds to put this into order.
And then when they do put it into order and they publish something, the rest of the world gets to examine it and see their brilliant thoughts.
They're professional academics.
Like, you're a professional singer and I'm a professional shit talker.
Like, there's some people that are really good at being professional...
suzanne santo
You always do that.
You're like, bring yourself...
joe rogan
You're like, I'm a monkey.
suzanne santo
I'm a moron.
joe rogan
They can't do it.
They can't do it.
suzanne santo
Joe, you're very intelligent.
joe rogan
I'm dumb as fuck.
You gotta trust me.
unidentified
No, you're not!
joe rogan
I have a really good memory.
That's the difference.
Trust me.
Listen, I'm friends with Elon.
I'm dumb as fuck.
Trust me.
Trust me.
It's like when people say they're a tough guy.
I'm like, bitch, I know Kamaru Usman.
suzanne santo
You're not a tough guy.
Just shut the fuck up.
joe rogan
I know Cowboy Cerrone.
You're not a tough guy.
There's a lot of people who think they're tough guys.
I'm like, I know real tough guys, and they're terrifying.
I'm friends with Joe Schilling.
I'm friends with real terrifying human beings that make a living out of throwing their bones at other people, trying to knock them unconscious.
So there's levels to things.
If people say, am I a tough guy?
I'm like, compared to who?
suzanne santo
Compared to who?
joe rogan
Compared to some fat guy who never works out?
Fuck that dude up.
But regular tough guys?
No.
No, you've got to know where you stand.
And that's the same place with...
suzanne santo
Well, the definition of tough guy is fleeting.
joe rogan
But it is the same thing with intelligence.
Like when people say you're intelligent.
No, you just have access to a lot of data.
But the lot of data that I have access to, other people have introduced me to, right?
It's like I'm not figuring out data on my own.
There's some brilliant people out there.
suzanne santo
Correct.
joe rogan
They're legitimately, shockingly smart.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
But you got to be like aware of where you are in this.
unidentified
Sure.
joe rogan
When I'm in, I'm like a fucking net for like really smart people.
Get in here!
Tell me what you know.
I'm like I throw that Wonder Woman lasso on them.
Remember the lasso of truth?
suzanne santo
I do.
joe rogan
That's the move.
suzanne santo
I do.
joe rogan
Yeah.
But I'm not that smart.
I'm a regular smart.
Like, these people are, like, preposterously.
suzanne santo
As your friend.
joe rogan
Because you're my friend.
I appreciate you very much.
But you've got to listen to me.
unidentified
Girl!
joe rogan
I'm telling you the truth.
I'm not lying.
There's, like, levels to this shit.
suzanne santo
I understand.
joe rogan
And it helps everybody if you know where you are.
And one of the worst things is when you're around someone who doesn't know where they are.
Right?
Like, they think they're way better than they are.
They think they're a way better singer or way better comic or way Way better a podcaster.
Why don't I get the fucking attention I deserve?
There's always a lot of people that have these thoughts in their head.
And some of them, they just are ready to pop, and the world doesn't know yet, and they're kind of frustrated, and then they break through, and then all of a sudden it becomes a thing.
Like, did you listen to the podcast I had with Jewel?
suzanne santo
No, but I want to.
joe rogan
It's incredible.
suzanne santo
Yeah, I remember that.
joe rogan
It's incredible.
She's amazing.
suzanne santo
Yeah, I've heard that.
joe rogan
But her story is, she's homeless.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
She's homeless at 18. Okay, she's singing in a fucking coffee shop.
She talks, the owner of the coffee shop is about to go under, and she says, listen, would it be okay if maybe I do this thing and I'll put out flyers and people come to hear me sing?
suzanne santo
In Alaska?
joe rogan
No, this is in San Diego.
So she does this, becomes like one of the biggest music stars on planet Earth.
Isn't she from Alaska?
Yes, originally.
Homeless at 18, moves away from her parents at 15. It's a crazy story.
And she's one of those people, like yourself, that's gone through some shit.
And I don't want that for my kids.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
joe rogan
But I love the way you turned out.
I love the way she turned out.
It's like I'm so torn.
It's like I don't want them to experience great pain.
But it seems to me, whether it's Joey Diaz or you or many of my friends, Eddie Bravo or Ari Shafir, all my friends that I love the most dearly, Duncan Trussell, they all came from some crazy, fucked up childhood.
Where it produced this amazing eccentric person.
And they're so unique and special.
unidentified
Because they made it up that fish ladder.
joe rogan
They passed the grizzly bear's snapping mouth.
unidentified
Woo!
And they got it to the river and they swam uphill.
joe rogan
And they made it.
suzanne santo
We're all just a bunch of salmon.
joe rogan
We are.
We are.
In some fucking weird way, we are all just a bunch of salmon.
suzanne santo
You're not wrong.
I mean...
It's gonna sound super weird, but since I met you, I felt spiritually connected to you.
joe rogan
Yeah, we're friends forever.
You and I, whether we were brothers and sisters in a past life or something, there's something, whether that's bullshit or whether it's true, the moment I met you, and I feel the same way about Ben, the moment I met you guys, I was like, I'm connected to you guys.
I don't know why.
This is immediately connected.
suzanne santo
It's mutual.
joe rogan
It's like there's people in this life that you meet like that and there's people in this life where you have to earn their friendship and you have to earn the connection with them.
And that requires more than a few hangouts.
You have to hang out with them for months and months.
There's friends like that, where the first time I met them, we were kind of peripheral friends, and I had to crack through the ice, and then you get closer to each other, and you realize, oh, we're all very, very similar, but maybe this person has been famous longer and is a little more jaded to people, annoying them and sucking up and stealing their time, which happens to some of these, especially rock stars.
Rock stars are the most inundated.
Everybody's coming at them.
suzanne santo
Well, it's a real-time experience.
It's not like you had a show or a movie or something and then you get the ricochet after that.
It's like music is right there.
joe rogan
Right there.
suzanne santo
Real-time.
joe rogan
Did you see the Stones when they were in town?
suzanne santo
No, I didn't.
I was out of town.
joe rogan
I don't believe they're quitting.
I think that's nonsense.
I think Mick Jagger's going to ride that fucking bitch until the wheels fall off.
But I saw him down at the CODA, the Circuit of the Americas, which is amazing.
If you've never been to that place, it's so crazy.
The people that own it are like the nicest people in the world.
suzanne santo
Wait, I feel like I saw your videos.
joe rogan
Yeah, I put some pictures up of it.
unidentified
What was this?
joe rogan
This was, was it November, Jamie?
Right before Thanksgiving.
It was like a drug.
Watching the Rolling Stones on stage was like, I can't even imagine that's really Mick Jagger.
It was freaking me out.
suzanne santo
He was right there.
joe rogan
And it was like 50,000 fucking people plus.
And that motherfucker can still do it.
When they sang Gimme Shelter, I was like, holy fuck!
suzanne santo
I love that.
joe rogan
Holy fuck!
All your goosebumps have goosebumps, and your whole body's like, I can't believe I'm really here.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
I mean, that's our life force, you know?
That's that real-time experience.
And I feel like that's what I've been talking about this whole time.
That's all I want.
You can't take any of this shit with you, right?
joe rogan
Right.
suzanne santo
And while I'm here, and it feels like as the world gets crazier, my world gets smaller.
So my juice, my life force is the simplest shit.
And it's art, it's love, it's quality time.
And the minute I pick up my phone, I lose all that stuff.
Obviously, I need to figure out how to get here to your podcast location.
I need my direction.
But at the same time, where we're at in whatever barometer of our life is, your experience, and I think Jess was there with you, right?
You were there together at the Stones.
You had this thing that was like, I'm sure you could feel it in every cell of your body.
joe rogan
Yeah, Tony Hinchcliffe and his girlfriend were there, too.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's one of those things where you see it where you feel like energy in the air.
suzanne santo
Transformed!
joe rogan
But you can't write it down.
unidentified
No!
joe rogan
Like, you can't say, oh, I had 184 picograms of, like, rock and roll energy injected into my veins.
suzanne santo
And, you know, Gary does this thing during his shows, and I love him for this, and it's so special.
And I know a lot of, like, your shows, you lock up your phones before you get in so you could just be there.
unidentified
Be there.
suzanne santo
And also people don't fuck with your shit.
But, like...
Be there.
joe rogan
Be there.
suzanne santo
That's it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Exist in the moment.
Have a good time.
Just have some fun.
suzanne santo
And I'm guilty of this too.
That minute you're like, this is fucking awesome.
And then you pick it up and you're like, but you're missing something.
joe rogan
You are, but you're also just trying to figure it out.
Everybody's trying to figure out what the fuck these goddamn phones are.
Because they're not just phones.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
They're portals to the rest of the world.
suzanne santo
They sure are.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And you always want to check in.
Bill Burr was on Pat McAfee's show.
Have you seen that?
It was on my friend Crystal and Sager.
They have the show Breaking Points and they had a segment of Bill Burr talking about he doesn't pay attention to anything.
Good for him.
He doesn't listen to the news.
He's like, if you listen to Fox News or CNN, they're all fucking just trying to get you angry and I don't listen to any of it.
And he goes, and every now and then sometimes someone will say a joke and everybody laughs.
He goes, I don't even get the joke.
Because he's so not tuned in to the nonsense.
Is he happy?
You don't want him totally happy.
You want Bill Burr 25% annoyed.
You want him mostly happy, but 25% pissed off so that he could keep making great comedy.
suzanne santo
I think I met him that one time when we were at the Wiltern, like a long time ago.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, he came backstage.
Yeah, that's the 2012 show.
Yeah, yeah.
No, he's a sweetheart.
suzanne santo
Joe, that's 10 years ago.
joe rogan
Dude, I know.
That was December 21st, 2012. That was 11 years ago.
That was the end of the Mayan calendar.
There was a thing called the long count in the Mayan calendar.
Now, looking back...
They might have been right.
They just might have been off by a few years.
They thought that something was going to change, whether it was some sort of procession of the equinox changes or a change where the constellations are in the sky, whatever it was.
They thought something was changing in the calendar.
They had this very long calendar, and the end of the long count was December 21st, 2012. And when the world didn't end, everybody was like, oh, we're going to be fine.
But it might have.
It might have.
It might have started a process.
suzanne santo
I think something ended in 2008, but...
joe rogan
It's not that long ago.
2012 is not that long ago.
suzanne santo
No.
joe rogan
There it is.
Stan Hope, Honey Honey.
Joey Diaz, too.
Joey Diaz is there, too.
On the left-hand side is Joey Diaz.
Yeah.
That was fun, man.
The one on the right, Jamie?
I think that's the whole...
Oh, that's it?
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, it was Joey Diaz, Doug Stanhope, you guys.
suzanne santo
Eddie Bravo was backstage too.
joe rogan
Yep, Eddie Bravo was there.
And we were all like, when we booked it, I remember we booked it like a year in advance.
We were like, this is supposed to be the end of the world.
Let's do an end of the world show.
suzanne santo
Thank you, man.
Thanks for bringing us along.
joe rogan
Oh, my pleasure.
suzanne santo
It's been really fun.
I don't know what's coming, but it's so different now.
There's so much to process.
joe rogan
There is, but I feel like there's also this really unique time where we all can kind of join together and help each other.
Especially as artists, and I feel a giant responsibility to do that as a podcast host.
To have people on that I love, have people on that are funny or talented or whatever, and everybody knows.
This is what I like.
I like this.
suzanne santo
Well, you know, Nick said to me once, he said, you know, you can have armies and things, but nothing kicks the door or wall down like art.
And it's true.
And he would know.
I mean, he's a mastermind.
And there's something happening to all of us.
And whether we are deep in it or we want to admit it, whatever it is, there's a reckoning happening.
And I'm not like a doomsday person.
I'm not dark.
I'm genuinely light by nature, but I can't deny this hovering feeling.
And I agree with you.
I think the art is important.
It's a saving grace, and it connects all of us.
And like I said earlier, maybe a couple hours ago, that when I came here to see you and Dave, I mean, it Yeah, you decided to move here.
But it changed me.
You grabbed my soul and reminded me of something that is very important.
joe rogan
We're supposed to be alive.
suzanne santo
Exactly.
joe rogan
We're supposed to be having fun.
suzanne santo
We're supposed to have an experience.
joe rogan
Yes.
suzanne santo
And not deny it.
And I realize that's very complicated, but you woke me up.
joe rogan
It's very complicated.
It is very complicated.
But at the end of the day, we have to look at like so many factors, but then take into account like what is our end goal?
What's our end goal?
What's your end goal as a person?
Your end goal as a person should be have better times with the people around you.
Whether they like you more, you like them more, you have good friends you trust and love, and you want to see them succeed.
You want to see people inspire you.
You want to see new art that changes the way you think about a particular genre or a particular style or whatever it is.
All that stuff is exciting.
It makes you feel better.
You want to do more.
You want to feel more.
suzanne santo
We've lost something.
We've lost our values.
We're at a surface level.
joe rogan
I don't think we've lost it.
suzanne santo
Where everything's disposable.
joe rogan
We're just battling.
This is what's going on.
And this is what has to go on.
There's no meaning without some kind of struggle.
And there's some kind of struggle that's happening right now that's very unique.
unidentified
Matrix.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, it's kind of...
suzanne santo
People feel like we're just here to...
The human experience is you have to struggle.
But I don't agree with that.
But I also understand it.
But the thing is...
The warp speed that our brains are integrating is like we don't have the value of time and the depth.
We're at this point where our greatest joy is a TikTok video or some shit that didn't take much time.
It didn't take much effort.
It didn't take integrity.
And I mean that.
Sorry if that's going to piss you off.
But...
Learn something.
Learn a language.
jamie vernon
What about all the songs that were written in five minutes, though?
People didn't try that hard.
I just stumbled across it.
unidentified
Some of the best hits of all time have been written in five minutes.
suzanne santo
Those songs that were written in five minutes were a byproduct of songs that were your efforts as a songwriter for the whole essence of your being.
jamie vernon
I just meant it in the TikTok thing.
joe rogan
There's a guy...
suzanne santo
I don't know enough about TikTok.
joe rogan
There's a guy on Lex Friedman's show.
suzanne santo
I love Lex Friedman.
joe rogan
I love Lex Friedman too.
suzanne santo
I had dinner with him and Eric Weinstein.
joe rogan
I love both of them.
suzanne santo
He's great.
joe rogan
They're both great.
There's a guy named Peter Wang who is on Lex Friedman's podcast this week.
And there's some clips on Lex Clips.
And one of them I sent to Lex.
I said, this is brilliant.
And this is this guy, Peter Wang.
And he's saying, life without struggle is meaningless.
And he's basically essentially saying everything that David Goggins has said, that Cameron Haynes has said, that Laird Hamilton has said, that I've said, that a lot of people have said, like there's something about trying to achieve something that's intensely difficult gives you some sort of sense of purpose.
It's not necessarily all of life, but what it is is like a path to understand yourself so that you can more honestly assess what life is.
And I think people have a really hard time assessing what life is if the path they're on is either too easy or is filled with falsehoods.
If it's full of bullshit, that's one of the reasons why people in Hollywood are so spiritually starving.
Right.
Because the whole sport of being an actor is being a bullshit artist.
suzanne santo
Right.
joe rogan
You literally have to be the best faker.
suzanne santo
They all kind of, like, hitch their wagon to the, like...
joe rogan
Of course.
suzanne santo
The thing of, like...
And I don't want to speak negatively on...
joe rogan
What culture?
suzanne santo
Yeah.
Well, I was going to talk about ayahuasca.
joe rogan
Oh, that too.
suzanne santo
There's your shortcut.
Like, you know...
joe rogan
Yeah, but that works.
suzanne santo
And, like, P.S., I'm a big advocate of psychedelic healing.
But at the same time, I think...
We're all looking for something, whether you're in Hollywood or you're in, you know, Louisiana, South Louisiana, trying to get a job.
Like, we all are here, alive, trying to figure this fucking shit out.
joe rogan
Yeah.
That's the thing.
We're all trying to figure this fucking shit out.
All of us.
unidentified
And we have to be charitable.
joe rogan
We've got to be nice to each other.
suzanne santo
Agreed.
joe rogan
That's like what a lot of us are missing from today's chaotic discourse.
We're like cats on a hot tin roof.
Our fucking feet are hot and we're freaking out.
unidentified
I really like the full circle of like, let's sort it out.
suzanne santo
Why can't we just talk?
Why can't we just say, hey, I like you, I disagree with you, but I still really like you.
joe rogan
We can do that.
The problem is...
suzanne santo
I would love that.
joe rogan
Face-to-face, person-to-person, we can do that, but then that person will check in on Twitter, and Twitter will let everybody know that you're a piece of shit and probably an anti-vaxxer, and everybody will go fucking angry.
suzanne santo
Someone recently called me a white supremacist, and I was like, what?
I couldn't believe it.
joe rogan
That is a sign of, like, they just want to shut down all discourse.
suzanne santo
Well, there's, like, a bad card to pull, and it's, you know, Like, let's just listen.
joe rogan
So the problem with that card is, if you pull it on people who aren't white supremacists, then they don't believe that there really are white supremacists.
And then when a real white supremacist comes along, it's a lot like Cryin' Wolf.
Like, all of a sudden, that's a real wolf.
You're like, fuck!
Nobody wants to listen to me now.
But now you're in front of a real KKK member that really thinks that they're the master race.
Versus, like, someone who thinks that a white girl should be allowed to wear hoops.
unidentified
What are you saying, Joe?
joe rogan
People were giving girls a hard time for wearing hoops if they were white girls.
It's crazy.
But it's like, that's nonsense.
Do you eat pizza?
Then shut the fuck up.
Do you use a cell phone made in China?
Let's all shut the fuck up.
Come on, this is nonsense.
What we should be attacking is actual racism, not like something that's like fake racism.
Like there are people that really do not like people that are Uyghur Muslims, right?
That's real.
There's people who really do not like people who are Pakistani because they're from India.
There's people that really do think...
suzanne santo
Oh, I know.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's like a lot of crazy, real separation between human beings that's completely unnecessary, that disregards the individual.
suzanne santo
Correct.
joe rogan
And anybody that wants to lump people into these dumbass categories and then point at someone and say, you are a white supremacist.
What you're doing is ruining the term.
You're fucking up the term.
And it literally allows holes in the gates where real white supremacists can sneak through.
Because you've made it meaningless.
suzanne santo
Correct.
unidentified
You've fucked up the whole term.
joe rogan
Cunts!
Fucking cunts!
Right?
suzanne santo
Yeah, it's pretty convoluted.
unidentified
Um...
suzanne santo
Man.
joe rogan
Should you play one more song and we'll wrap this bitch up?
suzanne santo
Oh, shit.
Okay.
joe rogan
No, you don't have to.
suzanne santo
No, I will.
joe rogan
You don't.
Just FYI. There's no need to.
suzanne santo
What are we in, a half a bottle?
joe rogan
At least.
We're pretty fucked up.
You don't have to.
unidentified
No, I won't.
joe rogan
Do you want to play something new or old?
suzanne santo
Do you have a preference?
joe rogan
I don't.
I feel like I should request something, though.
suzanne santo
Oh, shit.
Well, let me see if I can do it.
joe rogan
What could be requested from like what albums could you do with one person, just you?
suzanne santo
Okay, because I'm pretty drunk...
joe rogan
Yes.
suzanne santo
I'm gonna play...
unidentified
Can you do...
joe rogan
Let's get wrecked?
suzanne santo
Oh, no.
God, God, no.
But, um...
I'll remember that for next time.
Like, that would be a...
That would be an egregious embarrassment.
joe rogan
Okay.
What would work?
Um...
I'll listen to anything.
suzanne santo
Okay, I'm going to play a new one.
joe rogan
Okay, perfect.
suzanne santo
Because I don't drink that much anymore.
unidentified
I'm not fucking drunk.
suzanne santo
And I love this.
joe rogan
So are you more tuned in to the new ones because you've been practicing them and performing them?
Yeah, I've been playing them.
suzanne santo
Yeah.
I mean, I could play a Christmas song, but that's not gonna work because Christmas is over.
joe rogan
But for real, sometime in the future, you and Gary have to record Midnight Rider.
suzanne santo
Okay, deal.
joe rogan
It's one of my favorite times ever seeing...
suzanne santo
If you pay for it, we'll do it.
joe rogan
100%.
I will.
I will do it.
I've been thinking about doing something like that.
While we're having this podcast, and I'm a little bit drunk and a little bit high, but I've been thinking, why don't I have some sort of promotions group?
Like JRE Promotions.
suzanne santo
Bring it.
joe rogan
You know what I'm saying?
suzanne santo
Joe, it is time.
It's been time for years.
joe rogan
I'm thinking about doing something like that, like just openly doing it, but doing it completely like we're just like a charitable thing.
Like I'm not just promote everybody.
suzanne santo
You are the renaissance of Texas and a lot of places.
And I think that I support that.
joe rogan
I think it can happen.
We should do it.
suzanne santo
Okay.
joe rogan
Would you, if I was going to have a request, I would say, would you play What You Gonna Do Now?
Can you do that?
suzanne santo
Sure.
unidentified
Okay.
suzanne santo
I'll try not to mess it up.
joe rogan
You're not going to mess it up.
Listen, even if you mess it up, it's real.
It's live.
It's an amazing song.
Which album is on?
suzanne santo
I think this is on three.
Okay.
Ooh, baby, that fire's coming down Right into your walls, right out of your mouth And everything you love's just dash on the ground
Ooh, babe, so what you gonna do now?
So you run to the river, you run to the sea You sift through the rubble and search the debris But you won't find anything if you don't find peace Ooh, babe, so what you gonna do now?
Don't wait till you die Cause you can always change your mind and make it right.
unidentified
So why are you still waiting outside?
suzanne santo
Maybe your momma didn't treat you right Maybe you just didn't sleep last night You know I don't give a damn why you wanna fight Oh babe, so what you gonna do now?
unidentified
Don't wait until you die.
suzanne santo
You can always change your mind and make you right.
So why are you still waiting outside?
unidentified
This is for you.
suzanne santo
Mmm.
So come out from the weeds and into my arms.
Oh, babe, I know the dark and how it can harm you.
Yeah, and I've had my conscience rip me apart too.
So here's what we're gonna do now.
Take all your needs and all your sins.
of the losses you threw to win And we'll carry the weight if it breaks every limb And that's what we're gonna do now Don't wait until you die You always change your mind and make it right.
So why are you still waiting outside?
You're still waiting outside.
Still waiting outside.
unidentified
Oh, man.
Suzanne!
joe rogan
Fuck yeah!
suzanne santo
That's a half bottle of buffalo drinks for you.
joe rogan
That was amazing.
That was amazing.
God damn it, that was good.
Oh, that was beautiful.
suzanne santo
That's very generous of you, Joe.
joe rogan
No, no, no, no, no, no.
You just fucking nailed it.
You just punched a hole into the next dimension.
suzanne santo
Oh boy.
joe rogan
You nailed it.
suzanne santo
That's very nice of you.
joe rogan
Holy shit.
unidentified
Thank you.
joe rogan
Come on, Jamie, right?
unidentified
Jamie's a robot.
No.
joe rogan
Jamie's like, mm-hmm.
I have to play golf.
suzanne santo
I never play drunk.
That's the truth.
joe rogan
That was awesome.
suzanne santo
I never play drunk.
I'm still sober when I play.
joe rogan
That was awesome.
We're almost at 2022. Everybody's listening to this.
It'll be real close to that when this comes out.
By the time you finish it, it'll probably be 2022 because this bitch is long as fuck.
suzanne santo
Yeah, it is.
unidentified
It is.
joe rogan
Jamie, I appreciate the fuck out of you.
suzanne santo
Thanks, Jamie.
joe rogan
You're the greatest of all time.
suzanne santo
You're a champ.
joe rogan
He's the greatest.
There is no greater.
If it comes to podcast producers, that's the goat.
suzanne santo
Oh, I know.
jamie vernon
A true Capricorn.
unidentified
Right?
suzanne santo
Number one.
You got two goats in one room.
joe rogan
But he's the goat.
Two goats in one room.
That sounds dirty.
That's 100% the goat.
unidentified
But it's true.
joe rogan
There's not a producer that can fuck with Jamie Vernon.
I appreciate you very much.
You're awesome.
That was amazing.
suzanne santo
Likewise.
Love you, buddy.
joe rogan
I love you, too.
That was so good.
That was so good.
suzanne santo
You're generous.
joe rogan
I needed to see that.
I needed to hear that.
suzanne santo
Let me play for you when I'm in full form.
unidentified
Fuck.
No, no, no.
joe rogan
That was as good as it could ever be.
Suzanne, I'm telling you.
You're going to watch that and you go, God damn.
I nailed that shit.
unidentified
Probably not.
joe rogan
No, no.
Jamie, she nailed it, right?
jamie vernon
That was great.
joe rogan
Suzanne, it was amazing.
It was amazing.
I've seen you perform, what, a hundred times?
suzanne santo
Thanks, Joe.
joe rogan
That was on the money.
On the money.
unidentified
All right.
Very sweet.
joe rogan
Love to everybody.
We're going to get through this, bitches.
Bye.
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