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Sept. 29, 2020 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:49:46
Joe Rogan Experience #1542 - Cameron Hanes
Participants
Main voices
c
cameron hanes
01:05:30
j
joe rogan
01:37:53
Appearances
j
jamie vernon
02:57
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
The Joe Rogan Experience.
Train by day.
Joe Rogan Podcast by night.
All day.
joe rogan
Hello, Cam Haynes.
cameron hanes
What's up?
joe rogan
What's going on, buddy?
Good to see you.
cameron hanes
Oh, man.
It's good to be here in the spaceship.
Look at this.
joe rogan
It's weird, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's very polarizing.
People love it or hate it.
A lot of people hate it.
cameron hanes
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I think it's cool.
joe rogan
I like it.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't love it.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't think it's perfect, but I think it's interesting.
We did it really quickly.
I mean, we decided to move here within six weeks.
unidentified
We were here.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I said this on a video on my Instagram, but I should probably say it again.
You live up there in Oregon.
cameron hanes
Yes.
joe rogan
And I said something incorrect.
I know there was one guy who got arrested for lighting fires, and I'd read some other shit about activists getting arrested for lighting fires or Antifa people.
I shouldn't even call them activists.
What do you call them?
Crazy people.
cameron hanes
Idiots.
joe rogan
Morons.
But it's not true.
So, sorry if you heard me say that.
Jamie informed me of it today.
It's one thing about being out of the loop.
You don't know when people are mad at you.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But this time, I agree with them.
Like, they're mad at me for something that...
cameron hanes
Well, somebody did get arrested for the Molotov cocktail.
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
I read that.
That turns out to be true.
He got arrested and then he got out of jail and then lit some more things on fire.
See, here's the thing.
When you say Antifa, what does that mean?
He could just be a crazy person.
And that's what a lot of Antifa is.
That guy that shot that dude in Portland, the guy that shot the Trump supporter?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
That guy's a crazy person.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's dead now, right?
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
He was a crazy person.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, just decided to pile on to this thing and become an activist.
But that's what...
When you don't have, like, an entry examination...
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Anyone can just join up.
cameron hanes
Just show up.
joe rogan
Yeah, you just show up and now you're Antifa.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And now you're a part of the resistance.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But...
I fucked up.
I said that a lot of people were arrested.
I read some shit about it.
I don't even remember where I read it, about all these people getting arrested for lighting wildfires, but it wasn't true.
It was just this one guy, for sure.
cameron hanes
I think they should have been arrested.
Maybe that's the difference.
joe rogan
Well, see, that's why it made sense to me, because they had been arrested for lighting fires in...
Or they hadn't been arrested.
They had been seen lighting fires and throwing them into the mayor of Portland's apartment lobby.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And they were lighting fires out in the street in front of his apartment.
When someone said, oh, look at all these arrests.
They're arresting people for lighting fires.
I just went, oh, that makes sense.
And I just repeated it.
I'm very upset with myself.
I don't like when I repeat shit that's not true.
That's definitely not true.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I mean, it's a hard time, though.
joe rogan
It's your spot up there, though.
cameron hanes
It is.
joe rogan
That's your area.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it's, you know, people, and they find out, oh, you're from Oregon, so what do you think of all, you know, it's just, it's kind of embarrassing to, just because I understand people have an opinion and they want change and they, you know, maybe some of it is valid, but I don't agree with A hundred nights of burning, or however many nights has been, of just burning and ruining a city.
I don't understand how that...
I mean, eventually, maybe one night, have a protest, do whatever, get your message out, talk to people.
But just destruction?
I don't get that.
joe rogan
I think it's exactly what we were just saying, that you get enough people that join onto a movement, and the movement has no, like, directive or leaders.
They're just there showing up.
And you're going to get morons that do things, like light books on fire and throw them into the lobby, like doing all the things that they were doing, trying to break into the federal building.
Yeah.
Just people are nuts, man.
And so many angry people right now, too.
That's also part of the problem.
So many people are angry.
cameron hanes
It's a crazy time.
joe rogan
And so many people are out of work because of COVID, because everything's shut down.
So people are furious because of that.
They don't know what to do.
It's one of those things where it doesn't seem like there's a solution on the horizon for a lot of people.
And so then they're like, we got to burn this system down.
Fuck this system.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Whew!
But Portland's a fun place.
I love going up there.
I've always loved Portland.
cameron hanes
Well, I'm proud to be from Oregon.
I mean, Oregon is a great state.
This, I don't know, it's really hard to support just destruction.
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's just, it doesn't seem like it's helping anything.
You know, and then, you know, all the conspiracy theories.
Oh, it's the fucking...
You know, they're trying to bring down democracy.
It's Russia and China involved.
And George Soros is funding it.
There's a million different versions of the conspiracy up to why there's so much chaos in the streets.
You know, it's a weird time.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I mean, Eddie Bravo is right about a lot of stuff.
joe rogan
Alex Jones is right about a lot of stuff.
cameron hanes
Right.
You know, it is crazy because you start, and I've even texted you about this, about wondering about, you know, people would always say, well, do the elites run the country and they're controlling this and media and this and that.
And then you start wondering, Or thinking or seeing, and you see all this, and you're like, maybe that's true.
Maybe the elites have been controlling everything, and they're still trying to with this COVID and the fear and everything they're doing.
They can control people with fear, and that's what's happening.
joe rogan
I get super suspicious when people use that term, the elites.
How do you get in that group?
cameron hanes
I don't even know what that is.
joe rogan
Is there a meeting?
What is the elites?
What does that mean?
cameron hanes
I don't like them.
I know that.
I know enough about it, but...
joe rogan
I don't know if they're real.
I mean, there has to be, right?
There is a Bilderberger meeting, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
With a Bilderberg group.
They get together and they meet up.
cameron hanes
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
But what do they do?
cameron hanes
I don't know.
joe rogan
You know, maybe they just talk about interest rates.
unidentified
Yeah.
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Well, we were talking about this and I would probably...
I'm a bowhunter, all right?
So I don't like...
The politics and trying to explain all this.
joe rogan
You stay in your lane.
cameron hanes
I try to stay in my lane, but I do have thoughts on other things.
And we were talking about...
If you even look at the movie 300 and Gladiator, the old time, the weird...
They would say boy lovers and it's like these politicians.
It's like a toned down version of that still.
It's like there's so...
Politicians...
I don't know.
That's why Trump got elected.
People are so sick of, quote, politicians.
But there still is that influence and them controlling and just so much different than the people, you know?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, I think that's how you become successful as a politician.
You have to be a politician.
You have to be, like, deeply embedded.
And again, this is just guessing.
I'm a moron, too.
I should stay in my lane.
I don't know what I'm saying.
But I would imagine that the only way you really get successful as a politician is you have to be connected to all these other people that are connected to all these special interest groups and lobbies, and that's why you have to go to these fundraisers, and that's why you have to mingle.
And then it becomes normal.
It becomes a normal part of the system.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I would imagine that that's the case with almost any big business.
Like, that's why guys get together, the big businessmen get together in golf.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Right?
They get together and they talk shit and they figure out their plan and they work out deals and stuff.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And some of them do it on Fuck Island with Jeffrey Epstein.
cameron hanes
God.
joe rogan
You know?
I think that's a lot of...
cameron hanes
No, wait.
What do you mean?
I haven't heard anything about that.
joe rogan
Well, it's just a place.
It's beautiful.
unidentified
There's a lot of beautiful trees and beautiful warm water.
cameron hanes
And why is it called Fuck Island?
joe rogan
Oh, I don't call it that.
I call it a nice place to meet nice people.
cameron hanes
Right.
I mean, how crazy is that?
That's just gone.
It's like, hey, wasn't that a story?
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Was that a thing?
joe rogan
It just went away.
But that sounds way crazier than Antifa lighting fires in Portland.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
And it's true.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
That's a real one.
cameron hanes
Yeah, there's...
joe rogan
I can talk about that, and they're like, well, yeah, it is what it is.
God, I'm so mad at myself for saying that story and to have it not be true.
When Jamie showed it to me today, I was like, did I say that?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
What is it like working with a moron?
Is it weird?
No, really.
Having someone like me, being a moron like I am, being responsible for steering the ship, and your livelihood is connected to this.
This has got to be strange, right?
jamie vernon
You're hitting the buttons, man.
joe rogan
Well, you gotta take the good with the bad, I guess.
Is that how you look at it?
cameron hanes
So how does a self-proclaimed moron have the President of the United States...
joe rogan
Well, he's clearly a moron, too.
There's no one that makes sense.
cameron hanes
Tweeting about you, mentioning you.
Oh, actually, when does him and Biden get here for the podcast?
joe rogan
See, Joe Biden's a smart one.
He's like, well, that guy's a moron.
I'm not going on this podcast.
cameron hanes
If he's a smart one, we got problems.
joe rogan
Trump is like, that makes sense to me.
I'm in.
Well, Trump is like, I mean, he's obviously deeply, again, way out of my lane, just talking nonsense, but he's obviously connected to business.
He's a huge businessman, hugely successful businessman, but not a politician in any way other than becoming president, which is fucking bananas, you know?
Part of it is good, man.
Part of it's good just to expose the system and just to let everybody know, hey, look what can happen.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Look how it can go wrong.
cameron hanes
He has a whole fake news has really got some traction now.
joe rogan
Yeah, fake news is a real thing now.
You can say fake news.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I was pretty impressed with the...
The treaty we just signed with Israel.
I mean, remember, Jared Kushner, he got beat up a lot, and Trump for appointing, and the whole family, and how everybody's involved in his operation, basically.
But, you know, Jared Kushner wasn't qualified, and then here we signed this great treaty with Israel.
And how'd that happen?
joe rogan
I don't know.
See, if Jared Kushner was not married to Trump's daughter, I think people would look at him very differently.
The problem is he's married to Trump's daughter and he looks like Damien from The Omen.
Have you ever seen photos of him and Damien side to side?
cameron hanes
No, I haven't.
joe rogan
Dude, he looks like a goddamn horror movie.
Like, he's the devil's son.
He's perfect.
Like, slick back hair, perfect angular features, thin and always wears a suit.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Jamie, show me what's up.
cameron hanes
Push some buttons.
joe rogan
He looks very similar to the Omen.
cameron hanes
Well, whatever he did, it was good.
unidentified
Come on, son.
joe rogan
Look at that.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Look at him and look at Damien.
Look at the...
Yeah, come on.
unidentified
Come on.
Right there.
joe rogan
Right there.
Come on.
cameron hanes
That's almost exact.
joe rogan
Bro.
cameron hanes
Is that Photoshop?
unidentified
No!
cameron hanes
That looks like it could be Photoshop.
joe rogan
No, and even he's showing off his watch.
Look at my watch.
The devil gave me this watch.
cameron hanes
That's not Gucci.
joe rogan
Look at that.
Those two up in the...
That looks like a horror movie.
Like, oh, they're bringing in the Antichrist.
unidentified
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
The one on the far left with Donald Trump being blurry and him...
That one right there.
Click on that one.
Come on, son.
That's some satanic shit.
If that wasn't a Stephen King movie, you'd be like, oh my God, they've got to stop him.
They've got to stop him!
cameron hanes
Well, whatever powers he's used, it worked out good for this treaty.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's just got good features.
cameron hanes
Yeah, that's it.
joe rogan
The kid's getting a hard time because he's got good angular features.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
cameron hanes
I wish I looked that good.
joe rogan
I do too.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Smooth skin.
cameron hanes
Oh, man.
joe rogan
Looks nice.
He's young.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Handsome.
cameron hanes
Tight.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Everything's smooth.
No, no, no ruddiness to his skin.
cameron hanes
No.
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't know.
The problem is, if you're married to the president's daughter and then you get a big job in the White House, Automatically you're fucked.
People are just going to say automatically you don't deserve that position.
There's no way.
cameron hanes
And Biden's son is the same thing.
Right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I mean, that doesn't come up too often either and that's pretty scandalous.
joe rogan
Right.
That thing where, you know, someone got fired because Biden forced it through.
How did that work?
Do you remember that?
cameron hanes
Oh.
No, I better...
joe rogan
We should stay out of politics.
cameron hanes
Let's try to avoid the retractions.
joe rogan
I just wish there was something going on that I was really excited about.
Like, this is good.
cameron hanes
Like Elk County.
joe rogan
Yes.
unidentified
Oh, Elk County.
joe rogan
We're doing that soon.
cameron hanes
I know.
I know.
We're days away.
And the thing about it, so I was just in Colorado.
No reception.
You versus the animals.
Reading the country, reading the wind.
I mean, that's life.
None of this is BS. Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, that's the beautiful thing about the woods as a reset, is that when you're out there in quiet, you realize, oh, none of these animals out here give a fuck about me.
They don't know who I am.
They don't know what is happening in the world.
They're not aware of Kamala Harris and Joe Biden or Nancy Pelosi or Donald Trump.
They don't know nothing.
They're just out there trying to eat grass and not get eaten.
cameron hanes
And breed.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And, you know, when John was there last year, he was like 18 yards away from a mountain lion.
cameron hanes
John?
Oh, Dudley.
Dudley, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I saw...
We saw, I think, when I was there, I saw one, but...
The guys hunting saw two during the day, mountain lions, and just out because the snow came, a weird snow storm.
It went from 90 degrees one day to 20 degrees the next day.
joe rogan
How does that happen?
cameron hanes
I don't know.
joe rogan
Jared Kushner, that's how.
Satan.
unidentified
Yeah, exactly.
cameron hanes
Had to be.
But anyway, the animals were, they didn't know what to do.
So the lions were out hunting hard.
They were like, this is great.
Animals weren't moving because they didn't know.
They were kind of caught off guard.
Normally the seasons change as a gradual.
And I think the bull stopped bugling.
The deer stopped moving.
Normally The bucks are in velvet, so they're off feeding and just in their normal routine.
Everything stopped because the snow and this cold temperature came.
But the lions were, they're like, oh yeah, now we're going to the hot pocket section and killing some deer and elk.
And it was crazy, but we saw two lions and then the bear were kind of gone for a little while, but then they popped back out too.
And it was good hunting for sure.
joe rogan
Yeah, that video that you posted, the bear eating the elk calf.
That's something that people need to see.
People who love wild animals, I understand it.
But there's a real cruelty to the way they die in the wild.
If people get upset about hunters, I understand that you wouldn't want a beautiful animal to die.
I do understand that.
But...
You kind of need to know that they're gonna die no matter what happens, and this is the way they usually die.
And it's a rough way to go.
Bears eating animals like that, it's so hard to watch, too, because the bears don't really kill them first.
cameron hanes
No, and the bear, this year was a hard year for the elk calves because, so the cows were pregnant, we call it dropping the calves, so they were giving birth, and the bear were just following, knowing that the calves are going to be dropped, they'll be on the ground, they can't stand up, and they could just kill them pretty quick, and so they were finding like two dead elk calves a day, every day, And this was a hard year specifically because it was dry in Southern Colorado.
So the grass didn't grow.
Normally the grass would be taller.
There'd be more cover.
Elcaves could hide better.
They were just laying on the open.
And the bears were like, oh, okay.
There you are.
Go kill them and start eating them.
And it was just...
They hammered them this year.
I mean, normally I talk to the game warden there when I was on that hunt.
Great guy, legend.
Bob's his name.
And he's been there for many years.
And he said that normally...
In that area, there's about, I think, 23 elk calves survive a year out of 100. And this year was down in the teens because the grass was, they couldn't hide.
joe rogan
So it's going to be a rough year in the future.
cameron hanes
It's tough to survive anyway.
I mean, 23 out of 100 is, you know, don't quote me on these numbers, but it was just, the point is I want to make it was less this year because there wasn't the cover.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's a rough world, man.
The world that they live in.
You know, when we were there with Johnny Hamilton and he was telling us that story, I've told a story before on the podcast about how they were tracking a cat and they found the cat's tracks and then elk tracks and then no more cat tracks.
And then they found the elk about 100 yards later.
The cat had jumped on the elk's back and taken out a big bull elk.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, they are...
Amazing creatures.
They live in the snow.
They live in cold weather in the mountains.
They live solo.
They hunt solo.
They only interact with other animals mostly when it's time to breed, right?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Cats?
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
And they kill...
Cats specifically kill a lot of big bucks.
And the reason why is because those big old bucks, they like being by themselves.
They don't like being...
They just kind of go off by themselves, bed, and they live a...
Solo life, basically, that's an easy target for a cat.
So cats kill a lot of big bucks.
joe rogan
Yeah, it makes sense.
But I love that they're there.
This is the thing about predators.
It's like, I don't want to get eaten by a mountain lion, but I love that they exist.
I don't want to get eaten by a grizzly, but I love the fact that there are grizzly bears.
It's such an interesting world, the world of the wild, the world of predator and prey.
And when you're out in there, you feel so vulnerable And you feel so fleshy.
Like, whenever I see...
Even when you're taking care of an elk that you killed and you feel their hide, you're like, God, I'm so weak.
Like, everything that we have is so soft and they're just...
They live in this life that's so...
It's so robust.
And it's so...
cameron hanes
If they survive...
Like, the bull I just killed, the taxidermist...
He just texted me or sent me a message on Instagram of the ivory.
So that's the...
The back teeth of the bull.
They call them ivories.
They're ivory.
People make jewelry out of them.
But he said they're the most worn ivories he's ever seen.
So the bull was very old.
And so you can imagine a bull that's in that country 10, 12 years old where you're living outside every single day.
I mean, we stay outside one time and it's just like, oh my God, I thought I was going to die.
People do die.
People do die from hypothermia.
They're out every single day living in the mountains.
When you see their hide, they're built for that, their muscle.
I mean, that 700-800 pound bull elk that never eats meat, obviously, just eating grass, solid muscle.
Those things are just built.
It's incredible.
And also, with all those lions and the bears trying to survive that, Johnny, you mentioned Johnny Hamilton, they took eight lions out of that country this year, and we're still seeing them during the daylight every day.
joe rogan
They have so much food.
cameron hanes
Oh, yeah.
That's the thing.
If it's good hunting, lions are going to be there.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's just the world that they live in, so spectacular.
They're trying to reintroduce wolves to Colorado.
cameron hanes
Oh, God.
joe rogan
Know about all that?
cameron hanes
Yeah, that's ridiculous.
joe rogan
You think that's ridiculous?
cameron hanes
Yeah, no.
joe rogan
I'd like to have a biologist sit down and talk to, like a biologist who's pro reintroduction of wolves, sit down with someone like you and have a conversation about it.
cameron hanes
Yeah, here's the problem.
Here's what they do.
They say, it all sounds good.
Hey, let's, wolves are a big part of the whatever.
Let's get them back in where they used to be.
Let's make, because even you said you like knowing there's grizzly bear out there and you don't, obviously you don't want to be attacked, but just knowing they're there and maybe seeing them.
And wolves are an amazing animal.
The problem is they make They make all these, I don't know, I don't want to say promises, but they sell it a certain way.
Like we're going to have this many packs of wolves and they'll breed this often.
And then so we'll have a carrying capacity of this many wolves.
Well, so once the wolves are there, then it's, oh no, we can't kill wolves because they sell it like they're going to manage them, you know, because we're going to keep this many.
But then it's like, once they're there, they're like, oh no, we can't hunt wolves.
I was like, well, no, I thought we were going to manage them.
So then everything goes back to nothing.
And then you got all these protests with all these pro-wolf advocates saying, we can't hunt wolves.
So they're there.
They're breeding over and over and over.
You got all these wolves running around killing because that's what they do.
And we can't hunt them because now we've backtracked.
joe rogan
Well, it is one of those things where they promise that...
Like, they have a number.
Like, if we have 2,000 wolves in this particular area, then we'll open it up to management.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
What management means is they'll have tags, and they'll put tags available for hunters, and they can go and hunt wolves.
People that hear that, they're like, wait, why would you...
Like, they hear, you don't eat wolves.
Why would you hunt wolves?
Wolves are beautiful.
Wolves are like dogs.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But...
I understand that.
I get that perspective.
It makes a lot of sense to me.
But people need to know that there was a reason why they wiped them out in the first place.
They were destroying cattle.
I understand, too.
Like, hey, they were here first.
I get that.
I get that perspective.
Yeah.
And if ranchers get hit with wolves and wolves start taking out their calves and taking out their cattle, it can be devastating.
In Alaska, they kill people's dogs.
There's a lot of wild videos of wolves tearing apart dogs in people's backyards.
cameron hanes
And wolves are just doing wolf things.
Yeah, that's what they do.
It's not their fault.
But once they're there, they're not going anywhere.
joe rogan
Well, places where they exist, they have a different perspective on them.
I remember I was in BC, and I ran into this man at the airport.
And I forget why he came up to me.
I think I had a...
Maybe I had a hunting t-shirt on or something.
cameron hanes
Keep hammering.
joe rogan
Maybe it was a keep hammering shirt.
But he came up to me and he said, are you a hunter?
And I said, yeah, yeah.
And he goes, yeah, we do a lot of hunting up here.
He goes, I do a lot of wolf hunting.
And I was like, you wolf hunt?
Like just right out of the gate at the airport.
I'm a wolf hunter.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I go, why do you hunt wolves?
Like, what are you hunting wolves for?
This is like early on in my hunting days.
And he's like, if you don't hunt them, man, you got a real problem with their numbers.
And he was telling me stories about friends that have ranches and they get attacked by wolves.
You know, the cattle get attacked by wolves.
And he was telling me that they take barrels of frozen meat And they freeze them with water, and then they leave these big bricks of frozen meat and water out for wolves.
And then he's got stands set up where he waits for wolves, because it takes a long time for them to eat through the meat and the ice, like a barrel filled with...
And he just kind of sets up shop, and he goes...
He goes, some of them are just too smart.
He goes, I'll set that up.
And they're like, nope, I know what that is.
They won't come anywhere near it.
He goes, you'd be amazed how smart they are.
But it's just, people that live, like in BC, in northern BC, there's a lot of wolves.
They have wolf issues up there.
And those people, they have a completely different attitude about what a wolf is.
cameron hanes
Yeah, but it...
It's the people that know wolves.
It's just the same thing in BC with the grizzly bears.
And anybody who's out in the bush knows, hey, grizzlies are a big problem out here.
But the people in the city make the decisions with the vote.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And that's what happened when they banned...
cameron hanes
Grizzly bear hunting in BC. And that's what would likely happen in Colorado with wolves.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Most likely.
Yeah.
I mean, Colorado's Denver and Boulder.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Right?
That's the big population centers.
cameron hanes
Very liberal.
joe rogan
Very.
And they're not going to be into shooting wolves.
cameron hanes
Wolves are cool.
Anybody who's out there, like where I was and the guys I'm hunting with, there's no debate.
No wolves.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
And that's...
Yeah, I mean...
joe rogan
But some people say, like, the reason that's the case is because people want a lot of animals that they can hunt.
Like, this is the argument, like, Steve Rinell has actually talked about this before with Alaska, that Alaska's done this sort of over-management of wolves in certain areas because they want to make sure there's a high number of moose and caribou and deer so that people will come up there to hunt.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, because they're trying to maintain...
And he's like, there's an argument that that's not the natural ecosystem.
Yeah.
cameron hanes
The natural ecosystem doesn't include skyscrapers.
joe rogan
That's true, too.
cameron hanes
So, yeah, I mean, humans do infringe on...
That's part of it.
So it's never going to be like cavemen or Native American times.
It's never going to be back to that.
So we're trying to balance it as best we can.
And, you know, big game animals are a resource.
They're a resource for the states that they...
You know, hunters do come in.
They contribute to a lot of things.
The habitat, the conservation...
Um, different projects and that's hunting money.
So if there's a bunch of wolves there and you can't hunt the wolves because these groups have, have protested and made it illegal.
And then the wolves are killing all the deer and elk.
Yeah, that's not going to work.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's an interesting situation because I love the fact that there are places where there are wolves.
Like whenever we've gone to BC to John and Jen's place up there.
Alberta.
Sorry, Alberta.
Whenever we've gone up there in Canada, you know there's wolves in that area and there's something cool about it.
I remember we saw one once in the distance crossing a road.
It's pretty far away.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But that was like the closest I've ever been to a wolf.
But just seeing it crossing that road and I'm like, look at that.
unidentified
I know.
cameron hanes
That's a fucking wolf.
Yeah.
unidentified
Whoa.
cameron hanes
I think that we get our bear license, but then we also get a license for wolves.
I think it's 25 or 50 bucks.
It's pretty cheap.
And there's always a hope that you'll see a wolf and it'd be nice to get an arrow in one.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, they want to control them because they destroy the population of the moose and the elk.
For people that aren't in that world, they're like, well, why would you want to kill a wolf?
Why don't you just let them sort it out?
That's the California argument.
What they want to do, essentially, the people that manage wildlife, a lot of them at least in California, they would like to eliminate hunting and let the animals all take care of themselves in some sort of normal wild way and force everyone to eat tofu.
Force you to eat tofu until you grow breasts.
I think that's the plan.
I think it's written somewhere.
I don't think that's true.
But I do think that they don't like the idea of human beings.
There's things that people will accept, like deer hunting.
People have deer hunted forever.
A lot of people have eaten deer.
Deer tastes good.
That makes sense.
But as soon as you move into things like mountain lions, even if you tell people that mountain lions taste good, they don't want to hear that.
cameron hanes
No.
joe rogan
They do not want to hear you're eating mountain lions.
cameron hanes
They're not seeing lions, so they don't think there's anything out there, but...
California is riddled with mountain lions.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's quite a few.
There's quite a few.
And they also don't have bad experiences with them.
I think the people that have bad experiences with them have a completely different attitude.
cameron hanes
Yeah, you have one on your back, you want them hunted.
joe rogan
Yeah, now you're not in Disney.
You're not in a Disney movie.
Now you're a part of the food chain and you realize like, oh, I'm way down here.
I'm not up here.
When I'm in my house and I've got a gun, I'm up here.
But when you're out in the woods, and you don't have a gun, and you're hiking, and you realize you're being stalked.
There's a crazy video that I saw once from Colorado of this guy.
And there's a mountain lion slowly walking towards him on this trail.
And he's trying to figure out what to do.
And he's talking to it.
And he's saying, hey, get the fuck out of here.
And you realize he got away.
The mountain lion gave up on him, luckily.
But that could have been the end of that guy's life.
That thing is just slowly moving towards him and trying to figure out whether or not it could eat him.
And that's all it does.
It's not like, I've never done this before.
I don't know if I can do this.
It takes down things every single day.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I mean, definitely, yeah.
When a predator locks eyes on you like that, it's definitely a different feeling.
I mean, yeah.
They're good at what they do.
I mean, they kill.
joe rogan
Yeah, I remember that Under Armour commercial that you did where they had a wolf in the commercial with you.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And you said they could only get the wolf to growl one time because after that it was over.
Like, you could not control the wolf?
cameron hanes
No.
To make it growl, to make it mad, we...
Gave it meat and then took it away.
So it was very upset.
It didn't get the meat.
But once it got in that, because it was obviously a tame wolf or it had been in movies.
Trained wolf.
Trained.
But once you introduce meat and it got in that mindset of meat, yeah, then that was going to be it.
joe rogan
Yeah, this is the commercial.
It's an awesome commercial.
How long ago was this commercial?
cameron hanes
Um, I'm not sure.
joe rogan
Quite a few years ago, right?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like four or five at least, right?
2013. Damn, seven years ago.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's a dope commercial.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it's cool.
The wolf was awesome.
I mean, wolves are amazing.
joe rogan
How big was it?
cameron hanes
It was tall.
I mean, I'd say it's probably 120, 130 pounds, I guess, but they're a lot taller than what you, like, compared to a dog, a normal dog.
joe rogan
How come they don't do more of these commercials?
cameron hanes
I don't know.
joe rogan
So the whole idea is that you and the wolf are in competition and that you won out.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
See, I got the bull and it's mad.
joe rogan
And so that's when it did that growling.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then after it did that, that was it.
joe rogan
You could tell it's got a collar.
Back that up a little bit.
Back that up a little bit.
Look.
Look at that.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it has.
Well, it's just a little rope, but it had its hair matted down right there.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
But it's a little rope.
joe rogan
That's someone's dog, bro.
That's a husky.
cameron hanes
No, it was a wolf, but it had a little piece of rope on it.
joe rogan
Have you ever heard the John Dudley story that he told on the podcast?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
unidentified
That's a crazy story.
cameron hanes
Being surrounded by a wolf or something like that?
joe rogan
Well, they fucked up, and it was like that scene in The Grey.
They killed an elk, and they didn't realize they killed an elk literally in the wolf's den.
cameron hanes
Oh, God.
joe rogan
Like, where they killed the elk, there was, like, bones all over the place in the area, and they're like, oh, shit.
And these wolves circled them and decided they were going to take the elk.
cameron hanes
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Where was that?
joe rogan
It was in BC. And it was him and a guide.
And the guide only had a certain amount of bullets.
unidentified
Oh.
joe rogan
And he only had a certain amount.
Because John only uses a four-hour quiver.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
So John shot the elk with one quiver or one arrow from his quiver.
And then he had three left.
And he killed two other wolves.
And he had one arrow left.
And they had shot three wolves together.
And the wolves were running at them.
Running at them.
He killed two wolves that were running at him.
cameron hanes
Wow.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And then one of them, he thinks was the alpha male, was sitting on the top of this ridge, like at about, I think he said about 50, 60 yards, staring at him, and he drew back for that one, and then he took off, and then the whole pack just took off with him.
They'd abandoned the situation because they realized what was going on.
But when they shot one, he said all the other ones started howling, like they tried to figure out who was dead.
cameron hanes
Yeah, check in.
joe rogan
Yeah, which is crazy.
So he's basically in a weird little war with these wolves, and they were making runs at him.
cameron hanes
That'd be intense.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
He said our back was to a tree.
cameron hanes
Wow.
joe rogan
And he goes, the guide only has like a couple of bullets.
Because the guide's bullets are just to scare off grizzlies.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
He doesn't want to shoot it.
He just wants to scare it.
They're not hunting grizzlies.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
So he brings a couple, I'll just grab a couple bullets, put them in my pocket.
And then here they are out in this situation where they're literally getting run up on by a pack of wolves.
cameron hanes
Man, that's intense.
I couldn't imagine.
unidentified
Wow.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I've seen, I've seen what, me and Roy, it wasn't our last hunt, it was the hunt before, I was hunting brown bear up in Alaska.
And I wanted to kill, in this area, there's so many brown bear, you could kill two.
So I wanted to kill one spot in stock.
And then hunting a tree and you can bait them up there because there's so many.
And they just made this legal.
So my goal was to hunt both ways.
Anyway, I killed a bear on the spot and stalk.
And we were up in the tree trying to kill another bear.
We were on this island.
And it was, I thought we saw a flash of a bear earlier and it was getting dark.
It's like, well, it never really, it gets dark for about an hour and a half at this time of year.
This was in July.
And so we're just going to stay in the tree the whole time.
So we got in there at seven at night and we're going to stay till five in the morning and just kind of ride out the darkness.
And I saw a flash and I thought we'd seen a bear earlier, but it didn't come in.
And I thought, oh, the bear's coming back.
It turns out it was a wolf and it's a black wolf and it came in there.
I have it on video.
I haven't even shared it yet, but It was a black wolf and it stopped there at about 20 or 25 yards.
Just a wild wolf that close is pretty amazing.
It's like they're a special animal.
joe rogan
There's something about them because they're so damn smart.
cameron hanes
It reminds me of that picture, well, the wolf in the picture, I think, did they send you one too?
That photographer, the wolf I have in the snow, the black one with his head down.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
How about at the old studio?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Just such an incredible animal.
So yeah, I love wolves.
I definitely don't think wolves should be wiped out or anything like that, but I just don't think wolves in Colorado, that's not a thing we should do.
joe rogan
It's just reintroducing them just sets off a whole chain.
I need to talk to somebody.
There was a guy that is a pro.
He's a biologist and he's pro-wolf reintroduction.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I need to have money.
You want to be on with him?
cameron hanes
Sure.
Yeah, let's do it.
joe rogan
It'd be an interesting conversation.
cameron hanes
Yeah, let's do it.
joe rogan
Maybe you can explain.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's a great video called How Wolves...
I think it's called How Wolves Change Rivers.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I've heard about it.
joe rogan
Really interesting video about this guy.
He talked about the reintroduction of wolves in the 1990s into Yellowstone.
And about how it's changed the ecosystem for the better.
But then I looked into the guy.
cameron hanes
For the better.
joe rogan
He's an eccentric character.
I'm not saying he's wrong, but he's into what's called rewilding.
And he wants to reintroduce wild animals into places, including, like, the UK. He wants to reintroduce, like, he's like, the UK used to have lions and elephants and all these different animals.
He wants to see if we could find this gentleman.
The guy, the concept is rewilding.
And apparently he was, like, this really depressed guy.
He was, like, urban, you know, doing the normal city thing in England.
And got really into the idea of wildlife and reintroducing wildlife.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I feel bad for them over there.
I mean, no hunting.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I mean, you know, me without hunting.
joe rogan
Well, that's your source of food.
It's also what you train for.
When I first met you, I was like, why does this guy train so hard?
What is he doing?
And then you're like, oh, I train for bow hunting.
I'm like, what?
What is happening when you bow hunt?
Are you in a race?
What's going on?
And then the first time you took me, I was like, oh, okay, I get it.
Fuck, you have to be in really crazy shape to pull this off.
cameron hanes
Well, you don't have to, but what I know is when hunting, and you know how it is now, you've done it for years.
But in the mountains, there's so many decisions.
Yeah, you can get up and down the mountains.
You can get around elk.
But there's so many decisions that you have to make, and it's related on performance.
So the higher level of performance, the better decisions you're going to make.
I mean, like on these last hunts, I pretty much have an arrow knocked.
I've, I killed two bulls this year and a buck and a bear.
I've had an arrow knocked pretty much all day, pretty ready to go.
And that's, that can be fatiguing.
Just this walking around slowly is tiring.
So when you're at a heightened level for eight hours or more, 15 hours on some days and you're covering distance and it's like, I want to be ready at all times for anything that happens.
So I have an arrow knocked and I am ready.
So to do that, it's exhausting.
If I didn't train the way I do, I couldn't do that.
So who knows what that would result in as far as success.
But people don't realize that.
I mean, you know what it's like when you're hunting.
It's like almost yoga poses all day, essentially.
I've heard people describe it as.
Because you're going so slow and so controlled and every footstep is controlled.
joe rogan
Just freezing.
Like if you're in a situation and an elk sees you and you have to freeze and you're holding your bow in your hand, you don't realize how damn heavy that thing is.
cameron hanes
And they don't have anywhere to go.
joe rogan
And they'll just stand there.
cameron hanes
They have nothing to do other than not let whatever they're unsure about kill them.
joe rogan
And their vision is based on edge detection, right?
cameron hanes
I don't know.
joe rogan
I think it's based on they see you movement.
That's why camo works.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because if you're standing there, they don't say, oh, there's a dude in camo.
They see the pattern and they see the edges.
As long as you don't move, they don't see anything funky.
cameron hanes
They definitely pick up movement.
joe rogan
When they see movement with the edge detection, like moving edges, like this edge is moving towards that edge, like what is that?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But if you just stand still.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
But if you got that bow in your hand, you're like, fuck, I can hold it like this.
And you've got your bow out like this.
And you're trying to hold it steady.
Like, you got maybe a minute, two minutes in you.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Before that fucker starts to shake.
And then the elk is like.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
And so you quickly realize when doing hunts like that, what being in shape means.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Oh, dude, I learned.
Like, last year, I thought I was in pretty good shape.
So I went up there with you.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And I was like, God, that one hill that we went up to to get the bull that we wind up getting, fuck, that was hard.
And to get up there, and then the only good thing is I was in good enough shape that even though I was exhausted, I got my heart rate back quick.
Yeah, it recovered.
It wasn't like I was beaten down once I got up there.
cameron hanes
Yeah, because we had to get the wind right to get up the hill, essentially what it was.
And that recovery is all related to how good a shape you're in.
joe rogan
That thing that we had last year, I mean, I don't know if we ever played the clip, but that moment that we had up there was one of the wildest elk hunting moments.
I don't know, I haven't been elk hunting for that long.
That was the wildest thing I'd ever experienced.
When you killed your bull?
How many bulls were up there?
cameron hanes
Like nine.
joe rogan
Just screaming.
cameron hanes
We'd pass some bulls, but there was nine just on that one little hillside.
It was like, it's what I would call a rut fest.
So there must have been some hot cows in there.
Those bulls were coming in.
They can smell a hot cow, which means the cow in estrus, so she's ready to breed.
Ovulating, I guess, is what you'd say for a human.
So she was in estrus.
I mean, she's a hot cow.
I mean, those bulls are like, okay.
I mean, bulls kill each other.
They kill each other all the time fighting.
joe rogan
Well, tell a story about the one bull that you shot that you thought was in its bed but was actually dead.
cameron hanes
Yes.
Yeah.
No, so I snuck up and I saw this bull and its head was...
I don't know.
I mean, they get exhausted.
So it's, they can lay their head down a little bit and rest.
I mean, middle of the day, they up all night, rutting, chasing, fighting.
So I saw this bull bedded and it was a big bull.
And I'm like, God, I don't know.
I mean, it's not moving, but I don't know.
Might as well.
We've got to make sure.
So I took my boots off and I started sneaking in, sneaking in, sneaking in.
And I got to about 20 some yards and I'm like, I don't know, but I don't want to be wrong.
So I shot the bull, never moved.
And it was already dead.
It had been killed the night before.
It took a tine in the neck, it looked like.
unidentified
Wow.
cameron hanes
And it was dead from fighting.
joe rogan
Wow.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Now, if it got killed the night before, can you salvage the meat?
cameron hanes
I don't think so.
I mean, it didn't look good.
joe rogan
Was it hot?
It was a hot day?
cameron hanes
Yeah, it was hot.
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's a bummer.
cameron hanes
I know.
I mean, that's life in the wild.
joe rogan
It is life in the wild, yeah.
We stumbled across one that had been killed, had been poked in the side, but it had been quite a while ago, and it was rotten.
It smelled terrible.
cameron hanes
This one, I'm guessing it was an IV-4.
It wasn't that long, but the meat had turned.
joe rogan
You realize that those antlers on their head, it's not just for looks.
No.
That's their weapons of war.
cameron hanes
No.
This kid, Wes, on the last hunt that I just did in Colorado, he had some good footage of bulls fighting.
Oh my God.
Dude, they're getting after it.
joe rogan
It's wild.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's what makes it, you know, between that being, they're so aggressive.
Then the sounds they make, if people haven't heard them, if you hear a bull bugle, it 20 or 30 yards.
You can't believe how loud that is.
Then you couple that with the antlers and the size of them and their aggressive nature.
And you can hear them coming through the trees and shit's breaking.
And as a hunter, you're sitting there and it's a lot to absorb.
I saw somebody yesterday commented that they've been practicing at 20 yards on a target.
And it's so small compared to a bull elk.
It's like, that must look like a house at 20 yards.
How could you miss?
And I'm like, well, people shoot over the back of bulls all the time at 20 yards because it's so intense.
joe rogan
Yeah, if you've never experienced it, the screaming alone, it's like when you're near it, they sound like something from Lord of the Rings.
What an animal, man.
They have everything going for them.
cameron hanes
They do.
joe rogan
The looks, the crazy antlers, the delicious meat, the crazy sounds they make, the wild places that they live, and the romantic but short life that they live.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
They live this wild, crazy, short life, running away from mountain lions and bears and wolves and trying to get laid.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then fighting other elk to the death with swords that grow out of your head.
cameron hanes
Sounds like the life I want to live.
joe rogan
No, I'd rather be the bow hunter.
Sleep in a nice place.
Even if it's just a tent.
Some place with a sleeping bag.
cameron hanes
Shelter.
joe rogan
I know.
cameron hanes
We'll get up and do this again tomorrow.
joe rogan
Drink out of a cooler.
cameron hanes
Meanwhile, they're out there surviving all night.
Never lets up.
joe rogan
To me, one of my favorite parts of the year is just the reset of just experiencing the woods.
The real wilderness.
Like where we're going in Utah and the mountains.
What is that mountain range called?
cameron hanes
Is it the Unitas or Unitas or something like that?
joe rogan
Whatever it is.
It's a gorgeous mountain range.
It's gorgeous and it just reminds you of what Life must have been like before human beings ever existed.
Before they ever came to this part of the world.
Just walking around with those animals.
It's a reset.
It's a real reset.
And every time I eat that meat, I think about those moments.
cameron hanes
I know.
That connection.
And when we talk about it, I mean ad nauseum probably.
But that feeling...
joe rogan
Look at that.
Yeah, that's pretty.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I don't want to say that.
joe rogan
You need a...
I don't know.
Is that a Native American word?
cameron hanes
I'm not sure.
joe rogan
Who made that word up?
Why'd they put those letters together like that?
cameron hanes
I'm not sure.
joe rogan
But that is what it looks like.
That's part of what it looks like.
Really looks like the...
Like that right there.
That's super familiar to me.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
So gorgeous.
cameron hanes
Oh, it's beautiful.
joe rogan
And we'll hike.
We'll start where you see the beginning at the bottom of the screen, and we'll go all the way to that far mountain range.
And if you're out of shape, Yeah.
It's a rough go of it.
cameron hanes
You're just going to take a lot of shortcuts into your decision-making and make a lot of poor decisions.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
And chances are you're not going to.
I mean, you can kill.
People kill all the time.
I see it all the time.
Look, this guy killed and he doesn't run a marathon a day or whatever that people want to say.
joe rogan
No, you can get lucky.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
But if you're going to have sustained success for decades...
Multiple times a year, you're going to have to be at your best.
That's all there is to it.
joe rogan
And I got to think that a guy like you, who does ultramarathons and all this crazy working out, there has to be something to what you're eating.
There has to be.
The fact that you're eating all this wild game is that your diet is...
How much of your diet is meat?
cameron hanes
Oh, probably, I would say 40%.
joe rogan
Just 40?
unidentified
Yeah, 40 to 50. What's the rest of it?
cameron hanes
Carbs, like potatoes and rice and fruits and vegetables.
joe rogan
Just think about how much wild game you consume and how protein-rich that is and that dark red meat that you get from these animals, how good that is for you.
It has to have some sort of an effect on your physical abilities.
Because one of the things that people always marvel at with you is like, how the fuck does this guy do so many things?
Like, how do you have the time to get up in the morning?
I mean, there's been many times you've run a marathon a day.
I know people are hearing this, oh, this guy's full of shit.
No, no, no.
No, a marathon a day.
You've run multiple marathons in a day.
You've done days where you got up at 3 o'clock in the morning, more than one day, where you ran a marathon and then went to work.
Yeah, or you've run 18 19 miles went to work and then finish the marathon off during your lunch break And then you'll go lift weights and then you shoot your bow or you shoot your bow and then you lift weights and like It has to play a factor I know there's just overall endurance and discipline and the fact that you've just always Given yourself this hard workload and your body's adapted to it I'm sure that has something to do with it.
But the fact that you're not injured all the time and the fact that you have all this energy, I gotta think that that wild game plays a big factor in all that.
cameron hanes
I would think.
I mean, I eat wild game every day.
Every single day.
And I know that has to help me recover.
But I think aside from that, I think we're, as humans, we're capable of so many amazing things.
And it's like, I've, that's why the people who you've had on those podcasts that I've, I've like been obsessed with connecting with because they're humans just like we are, but they, Goggins, they do incredible.
It's like, how can the same species of I'm thinking she's going to win the gold at this Olympics this coming year.
So I try to think, well, how can they do that?
They're the same species we all are.
There must be something.
Courtney's the toughest person I've ever been around.
I've been around some tough people.
But her mental toughness is...
joe rogan
It's weird, too.
She seems so nice and normal.
cameron hanes
She is, but she couldn't find a more sweet person.
I've said this before, where a dog will run itself to death.
I took that picture right there.
joe rogan
What is this?
It says, we estimate I slept fewer than four hours during my 105 hours on the Colorado Trail.
It's a combination of one-minute trail naps and longer attempts in the RV, and sometimes they happen by accident during a group sunrise photo.
Weekend at Bernie's anyway.
So she just passed out while she was doing this.
Less than ideal overall sleep time, but during the later days, the coughing and the wheezing preventing me from being able to fall asleep.
Sleep game needs major work.
Explain this whole thing that she was trying to accomplish.
cameron hanes
Right, go to that one weekend of Bernie's.
Yeah, so right here.
So we stopped with the sun coming up to take a picture, and she'd been going for 105 hours, which I, what is that, over four days, and slept for four hours.
So we stopped to take a picture, and she fell asleep.
I mean, just passed out.
But right after this picture, she's up running.
So that other picture on the trail that I took with her and Maggie...
joe rogan
A lot of people will look at this and they'll say, what kind of a human wants to do this?
cameron hanes
This was a three-minute nap right here.
So it was going to be three minutes or maybe six minutes, but something...
Sun had just come up, and incidentally, I'd just seen a big group of bucks in the dark about two hours earlier, about, I think, three in the morning.
This was probably about five in the morning.
But I laid my pack on her legs there and my coat's on her legs.
She's the closest one.
Maggie's the second one.
Maggie, in her own right, she won the...
It's called Big's Backyard Ultra where they run four miles every hour for as long as you can do it.
Get four miles on.
And she won it last year.
Courtney, the year before, was a first woman.
Anyway, so these women are...
Insane.
But they took a three-minute nap or a six-minute nap right here, then back up, and that resets your body.
I mean, it's like a Control-Alt-Delete.
So before this, Courtney was so exhausted from all this.
Maggie would ask a question, and she'd answer barely audibly, Two minutes later.
And so it was me, or Courtney, then me, then Maggie.
And Maggie would say something to Courtney.
Nothing.
Two minutes later, she'd like, I could barely hear it.
She'd answer whatever Maggie said, because her brain was like, They said her oxygen level in her brain was at 70%, which that was because of the coughing and lung issues and the high altitude and the dust and everything.
So her brain wasn't working like it should.
joe rogan
Let's explain what she was trying to do.
cameron hanes
Okay, she was trying to...
The fastest known time to run the entire Colorado Trail from Durango to Denver...
Is eight days and something like two hours, I think.
She wanted to beat that by a day.
So she was trying to run 490 miles from Durango to Denver with 90,000 feet of elevation gain total in seven days.
And...
To do that, I mean, sleep is...
I don't know.
I don't know what the perfect answer is.
She was about 22 hours, I think, at one point ahead of the record, but she ended up in the emergency room just because she pushed so hard.
What I was going to say is...
Animals will push...
joe rogan
Look how fucked up she looks.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
She looks so tired.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Look at her eyes.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
She just looks exhausted.
cameron hanes
Yeah, so her pulse oxygen was 70, which it's supposed to be in the 90s, and if it's at 80 or 85, they say go immediately to the emergency room, to the doctor, and hers is at 70. So her brain just wasn't getting enough oxygen, and I believe the doctor said that Because they said, well, what would happen if she keeps pushing?
And he said, well, she'll die on the trail.
joe rogan
Well, that's the problem with someone who's that tough.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
That's what I was going to say.
joe rogan
They literally could push themselves to the point where their heart stops.
cameron hanes
And animals do that.
We know that.
A dog will push itself.
A horse will push itself so hard that they will die.
joe rogan
Not my dog.
cameron hanes
No, your dog will.
joe rogan
I throw a ball four or five times in a row, and he drops the ball and lays down.
He's like, bro, we're done.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Right.
So some dogs.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
My dog, like Cashwood, he's a lab and all he wants to do, he'll do that until he dies.
And horses do that.
Horses die a lot.
Or not a lot, but horses die from pushing.
So most humans have that self-preservation mode where, I mean, most humans, like the hint of discomfort, I'm out.
Yeah.
But Courtney has that where...
I don't know.
joe rogan
Well, goals are interesting because goals are what force you to pass your comfort zone and go into this crazy level where you realize you're only tapping into a very small percentage of what your body's capable of.
Like even Goggins, what is his quote?
That most people quit at 40%.
cameron hanes
40%, yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think he's 100% accurate there.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't know, I'm throwing percentages around here.
40%, 100%.
cameron hanes
It sounds good.
joe rogan
I mean, anybody knows, he knows, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But there's a thing that you do when you tap into, like when you have a goal, when you say, I'm going to run 10 miles a day and I'm going to keep doing it.
Like my friend Lex Friedman, the scientist, MIT guy, he was on the podcast last week.
One of the things that he was talking about was he did this challenge where he ran, was it four miles every four hours?
Yeah.
jamie vernon
He did two challenges, but that was the first one he did earlier in the year.
It was four miles every four hours for 48 hours.
Or 48 miles, whatever it was.
joe rogan
And just talking about it...
cameron hanes
I think Goggins set that up.
joe rogan
Yeah, him and Goggins are friends.
And then there were some crazy push-up, sit-up, pull-up challenge that they did as well.
And Goggins said, whatever you do, I'm going to do double.
Which is just...
A nice little mindfuck when you're falling apart and you realize that Goggins is doing twice what you're doing.
cameron hanes
I love him.
joe rogan
But there's something about a goal like that where you set it in motion and you realize you have to do it where it forces you out of your comfort zone.
It forces you to realize what your body is actually capable of, which most people just never do.
That's one of the great things about making someone compete.
That's the great thing about training for a marathon or getting ready to do something.
When you have a goal and then you're committed to the thing and you actually have to go and do it, then and only then do you often find out what your body is actually capable of.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
And still, even during that goal or that performance, it's...
It's really hard to push.
I mean, push and give all you got.
I remember my kids, I would say, did you give all you got?
Yeah.
Well, you weren't throwing up.
You didn't throw up at the end.
It's like, when you push, I don't even, I mean, it's not like I can say I do that every time either, but it's like, Who really pushes with all they got?
joe rogan
And what is that line?
What's after that line?
Do you die?
cameron hanes
I don't know.
joe rogan
And would you be happy if you pushed so hard that you died?
Like, well, this is a good way to die.
cameron hanes
Well, no.
Then you know you gave your all.
So that's what fascinates me with these people, with the Goggins and Courtney.
Also, in some respects, Emma is performing at this level And it's just incredible to me.
It's like, so I want to know how can I take whatever mindset they have, apply it to myself in what I do.
So that's all I've tried to do is like, and I've said a million times, I'm definitely not talented.
I spend time around people who...
Are the best at what they do and hoping a little bit I can pick up a little bit I'm get that mindset like Goggins flips that switch Courtney just has no switch.
joe rogan
It's just what is what is talent?
I want to know what that is Like what when you say you're not talented because you're obviously very successful at both as a bow hunter You're probably I mean if there's three top bow hunters on the planet earth you're in that top I don't know how many people are the best bow hunters on earth, but in my mind you're you're in that group and What is talent?
Like, if you're that good at bow hunting, and I've seen you shoot targets 150 yards away and shoot balloons.
I mean, you seem to do some ridiculous shit.
You're obviously incredibly talented with a bow.
Like, what is talent?
What does that mean to you when you say, I'm not talented?
cameron hanes
To me, I always equate talent to physical, like, performance.
Like, say, running 100 meters or jump.
joe rogan
Like a freak athlete?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I equate talent to athleticism.
joe rogan
Right.
Like a Mike Tyson or, you know, Polo Costa.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just a freak athlete.
cameron hanes
Or runners.
Runners, right.
We've been running since the beginning of time.
If you're one of the fastest humans to ever run, You have to be talented.
Yeah, that's talent.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's things that people get that you are never going to get.
There's a certain amount of speed people can generate, a certain amount of power people can generate.
There's things that people can do.
But the kind of things that you're doing, it just requires mental strength.
You're doing endurance runs, or these long-ass mind-torture runs.
They don't require that sprinting shit.
They just require that ability to keep going when you don't want to keep going.
The ability to maintain a pace that's painful.
cameron hanes
Right.
Yeah.
And it's, and I've, I've been, I was talking to the, cause after my hunt in Colorado, I went and ran with Courtney.
We did a 14,000 foot peak and then I ran with Emma the next day and two totally different athletes.
Courtney's, you know, the, the eight, seven days crazy.
Emma's the 3000 meters.
And I was talking to them both about pain.
Because Courtney's pain isn't as intense, but it's for a long time, a week, you know, or days.
Emma's pain, so she wants to break nine minutes in the steeplechase.
She never has.
902 is her best, I believe.
And she'll have to break nine minutes probably to win the gold medal.
joe rogan
What's a steeplechase?
cameron hanes
That's 3,000 meters, and it has the barrier, like the water barrier.
So you jump over barriers, and then there's a water barrier, too.
Have you ever seen them jump over?
joe rogan
I don't think I've ever seen a steeplechase.
cameron hanes
Look up.
Here it is.
joe rogan
Is it right here?
cameron hanes
Yeah, that's her.
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
So you jump over water.
Damn, look how much air she gets.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
cameron hanes
Yeah, so that's her.
So she has nine minutes.
And you can see her, like, there's a good video of her winning the world championships, Emma Coburn world championship.
joe rogan
So this steeplechase thing, the water, you have to jump over the water?
What if you land in the water?
cameron hanes
They land in the water.
joe rogan
That's okay?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just slows you down?
cameron hanes
They can't really clear that water, so they plan on running and landing in the water.
joe rogan
What a weird thing to have a puddle in your run.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Isn't that weird?
cameron hanes
So that's...
Right.
And she's taller than those...
The other girls.
They're usually from Ethiopia or Kenya.
joe rogan
What a weird event.
You make them jump over a fence into a pond.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's so bizarre.
I never knew this existed.
How do I go this long?
cameron hanes
Here's another one.
Some don't have the water.
They just have that barrier there.
I think there's four per lap.
joe rogan
How many people eat shit jumping over that barrier?
cameron hanes
Where'd she go?
joe rogan
Look at her.
Hustle.
cameron hanes
Oh, I know.
joe rogan
Look at them legs.
Damn.
Get some length.
cameron hanes
So anyway, she's got nine minutes of pain.
And I was asking her about...
Because there's always a decision.
I watched her run this mile race.
And she was kind of in back with about a lap to go.
And there's always that decision like...
Do I want to go now and have it hurt really bad or just kind of, ah, it wasn't my day?
Like, how do you decide to deal with that pain?
And so that's what I was asking her about because that's what fascinates me.
joe rogan
What'd she say?
So there she did it at 919. So she's got it down to 902. Yeah, 902 is her best now.
God damn.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
Look at all those ladies are beating down at the end of that.
That looks so exhausting.
cameron hanes
So painful.
Yeah, so she's from this little town, Crested Butte in Colorado.
And that's where I went and ran with her.
And that's 9,000 feet.
joe rogan
What was her answer to that?
To the pain?
To deciding.
cameron hanes
She's just so...
Her brain is so focused in on that time, that nine minutes, where it's just like...
And so it's just she knows that if she pushes now, it's only going to last this amount of time.
You know, it's just this is what she's got to do.
This is how it works.
She's been doing it her whole life.
And so it's just push through.
So like if she's so regimented on time from doing track her whole life, she'll like say, well, can you meet me at 10?
And then we can get coffee until about 10.20.
And then we'll go.
We should be able to get to the mountain by about 10.30.
And then we can run and we should be done.
I mean, everything is so regimented because her brain works like that.
So when she thinks about that pain, I think she just knows that it's going to be the certain amount of time and then it's going to be over.
And this is what she does.
So, it's different than, say, a Courtney who's not going to...
It won't be as intense because you know with sprinting, when you're exhausted, it just hurts.
It's so easy to be like, that's what I was asking her about because...
When I watched her run the mile, that's not her event.
Her event is 3000 meters, which is more than a mile.
So I said, you could easily said, well, this isn't my event.
You know, you've made that decision whether to go and pass all these other girls and win or just be like, it wasn't my night.
This isn't my event, whatever.
And just a little bit less.
Oh, just so this decision on should I go or should I stay right here where it's comfortable?
This feels good.
I mean, it's still hard.
It's still an effort, but it's not the pain like going.
So when you make the right when you make this decision, she almost went right there, but didn't see that.
So when you make that decision, oh, I think this is a World Championships.
jamie vernon
Yeah, this was that race we just watched, but this is the full race.
joe rogan
So you hang back knowing...
jamie vernon
I thought that's what it said.
cameron hanes
No, no, no.
That was 2014. So watch this.
She passes right here.
This is a World Championships.
Going over this water, that girl in the middle didn't go over good.
Emma did.
And right here, so she's turning it on.
But now it's, you know, now the finish line is there.
But see how controlled and, like, fluid she is?
And this is so fast.
joe rogan
God damn.
And so she went on that crazy run with you and Courtney as well?
cameron hanes
No, no, no, no.
joe rogan
What was she doing?
cameron hanes
They're two different athletes.
joe rogan
She didn't run that?
Like, she was sleeping up there with you guys, right?
cameron hanes
No, no, no.
joe rogan
When she crashed?
cameron hanes
No, that was Maggie.
joe rogan
Oh, Maggie.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
And she's...
cameron hanes
She's an ultra...
This is Emma Coburn.
joe rogan
Emma.
Emma, Maggie, those are such white girl names.
I just conflate them all together in my head.
cameron hanes
Yeah, no, Emma lives in Crested Butte.
So I went, I met Courtney in Leadville.
And that's, we ran Mount Sherman, which is 14,000 feet.
So I met her at four in the afternoon, Courtney and her husband, Kevin.
And we did this big 11 mile loop and we did a 14,000 foot peak and then I stayed there at their house.
And then the next morning I got up and drove and met Emma in Crested Butte, which is another small town in Colorado and it's high altitude and that's where Emma grew up and her parents live.
And so I met her there the next day and we ran I don't know, shorter distance, but she runs so much faster, you know, five miles or whatever.
But for me, running five miles at 10,000 feet with her at that pace, it's like, She's got some length, too.
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
How tall is she?
cameron hanes
I would say 5'7".
joe rogan
But her legs are so long.
When she's running, she's got that crazy long stride.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
And she's run trails there at 9,000 feet.
And it's just like that training.
And to go over those barriers, you have to be athletic.
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's a different explosive move.
cameron hanes
She's more athletic than, say, the girls from Kenya.
joe rogan
Right.
cameron hanes
They're smaller.
But they live...
Kenya's high elevation, too.
But if Emma lives at the same elevation, has the same talent...
joe rogan
Fastest mile ever run on Colorado soil running 432.7.
cameron hanes
Damn, Emma!
That's the one I watched.
That's where I said she was in...
Yeah, she was at the back.
And then I said, that decision you made to turn it on...
No, that's not it.
Oh.
joe rogan
Just a slow motion version of it.
cameron hanes
Oh yeah, I think this was a couple years ago.
She just broke that outside.
joe rogan
Oh, so this is the indoor version of it and then she broke it outside?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
But yeah, so I just was interested in how that decision is made.
joe rogan
Now when you talk to her about her training, how much of her training is just running and how much of her training is like strength and conditioning?
Does she do plyometrics?
Because she's got to not just run, she's got to jump over things.
cameron hanes
Yeah, she runs every day.
Usually, I think she runs about 70 or 80 miles a week when she's training.
And so it'll be about, you know, 10 miles a day, split up a couple times, and then she'll lift, I believe, three times a week.
And so we lift it together, too.
And it's just...
Yeah, I mean, she's strong.
Definitely strong.
joe rogan
Oh, you have to be?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You could see it in her legs, like in the fact that she's able to get over those hurdles while she's in the middle of this crazy run.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
Well, a 430 mile, fast.
joe rogan
There's something also so crazy about your goal in life, like what you do, the thing that you concentrate on the most is your physical body.
Like you're banking on this, you're banking on your tissue.
cameron hanes
Who, just humans?
joe rogan
Yeah, any human that does that.
Whether you're a fighter or a baseball player or a runner, there's something crazy about banking on your body.
When I look at professional athletes in particular, I'm always like, boy, anything can go wrong.
And then it takes forever to fix.
It's not like you blow out a tire.
You go to the car shop and you go to the tire place.
You get a new tire.
You blow out a knee.
cameron hanes
That's been the only secret to any success I've had is that longevity.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Because there's a lot of people who've been better than me for short spans.
But if you can just keep doing it.
joe rogan
Keep grinding.
cameron hanes
Keep grinding.
Keep hammering.
I don't care what it is.
You're going to get good.
joe rogan
Yeah, that is the case.
How do you avoid injuries?
Because you train so much.
cameron hanes
I don't...
I mean, I get massage and...
joe rogan
You do those Norma Tech boots?
cameron hanes
Yeah, I got those.
Yeah, thank you.
joe rogan
I sent you those.
cameron hanes
You sent those to me.
joe rogan
Those things are the shit.
cameron hanes
Yeah, the Hypervolt, the hammer with the ball on it that...
joe rogan
Massage.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Do that with...
Eric comes over about three times a week.
You trained with Eric too.
And goes through, breaks down my hamstrings and calves and...
And hips, especially.
joe rogan
Dude, I had a lady that was giving me a massage, and I had a Theragun, and I wound up just having her just use the Theragun.
She was giving me a massage, and it was great and everything, but there was just one spot in my back, and I was like, just try this for a second.
cameron hanes
And that worked?
joe rogan
Yeah, man like half the massage session was just her jackhammer me Just working me with that and it was more effective than anything because you could do something with those things where you can push all the weight in like a massage But it's doing something that you're not gonna be able to do with your hands, right?
cameron hanes
There's this girl who does my massage her name's Erin She is so amazing.
I mean I can say Something that's bothering me.
She can go, like, feel my leg, go right to it and just feel it.
joe rogan
She just knows where the knots are.
cameron hanes
And then she'll do something else on some other side or some other place.
And it's like, I've never...
I've had a lot of massages.
Definitely there's, just like we say, there's levels to everything.
She's amazing.
I mean...
joe rogan
Some people just understand bodies.
They're intuitive.
They know where you're tight, where you have strain.
Did you pull your hamstring?
Did you do this?
Do you have something going on with your back?
What do you mean?
This side is tight, so you're probably compensating for something that's on the other side.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
So, I mean, the only way you're going to over, you know, 10, 20, 30 years to continue to do it is for maintenance.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Is taking care of your body.
You say it is tissue, it is muscle, it is have joints and ligaments.
If those, something happens with those, you're training.
joe rogan
You've never even had any operations, have you?
That's bananas.
cameron hanes
No.
joe rogan
I've had a bunch.
cameron hanes
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
I'm amazed.
How are your knees okay?
That's the other thing.
How the fuck are your knees okay?
cameron hanes
I don't know.
People ask me that all the time.
I was like, how do you answer that?
joe rogan
I mean, have you gotten an MRI? You don't have any meniscus problems?
Nothing?
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
That's bananas.
cameron hanes
No, I mean, it's...
joe rogan
You're my age.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You've been running forever.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
You don't have any meniscus.
I have all fucked up meniscus.
cameron hanes
But you also did a sport that was hard on your knees.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
But running isn't?
cameron hanes
You know, everybody's different.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I mean, maybe I have good genetics.
joe rogan
Yeah, you obviously must.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I was...
Pretty good with my right knee until I heard it in a kicking contest with Joe Schilling.
I tore my meniscus like a year ago like a moron.
cameron hanes
At the old studio?
joe rogan
Yeah, kicking that thing, that machine.
We had the registers how hard you kick.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
You did it then?
Yeah.
joe rogan
With jeans on.
cameron hanes
I remember seeing the video.
joe rogan
Yeah, no warm up.
52 years old, slamming into that thing, full clip, as hard as I can.
But that's a problem when something shows you a number.
unidentified
Bing!
Bing!
cameron hanes
Oh, I know.
It's immeasurable.
joe rogan
And you just wind up.
cameron hanes
It's immeasurable.
joe rogan
But to wind up like that, if I was coaching someone, I'd say, stop.
You've got to warm up.
Let's jump rope.
Let's get a sweat.
Let's get going.
Stretch out a little bit.
Let's start slow.
Like when I work out on a normal day, I don't just walk up to a heavy bag and full blast start kicking it.
I build up.
cameron hanes
But you can't have a contest with Joe Schilling and say, hold on, let me warm up first.
joe rogan
Exactly.
He's too much of a hard man.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
We had to step up.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
And tear your knee.
joe rogan
Yeah, my knee's still fucked up.
I mean, it's not fucked up to the point where I can't do things.
Like I can still kick.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I can still run.
I can still do all those things.
But I feel it where I didn't used to feel it before.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
But that's why I'm amazed that you don't have any of these kind of injuries.
cameron hanes
No.
joe rogan
I don't know.
I remember you had a fucked up foot at one point in time.
cameron hanes
Oh, I have.
I mean, there's injuries.
There's being hurt and being injured.
I hurt all the time.
I hurt every day.
But I haven't been injured ever.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's the difference.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I mean, it's...
I don't know.
joe rogan
Are you taking CBD at all?
cameron hanes
Yeah, sometimes.
joe rogan
Dude, I was getting arthritis in my toes.
Yeah.
cameron hanes
And did it help?
joe rogan
My big toes.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
My big toes.
Like, at the joint where my foot meets my big toe.
It was very annoying.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it's from kicking.
You know, just from...
Because you're always, like, pushing off.
cameron hanes
Oh, right.
Yeah.
unidentified
Pushing off.
joe rogan
Pushing off.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And my toes just got so tired of me doing that.
And they were getting sore.
And then I started doubling and tripling down on CBD. Particularly like CBD gummies.
That's my new trick.
Because it's like I'm eating candy.
Those CBD MD gummies are like 1500 milligrams.
I just chuck like fucking 10 of them down at a time.
cameron hanes
Do they have the THC in them?
joe rogan
No.
None.
Zero.
Zero high at all.
But it killed it.
Whatever.
I was like, God damn it.
I was thinking I was going to have to get PRP or something done to my big toe.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
And that helped it?
joe rogan
Killed it.
I don't have any problem with it all.
Now, whatever it was, it was gone away.
Dave Foley told me the same thing.
Dave Foley told me he was getting serious arthritis in his hands, where his hands were like this.
He couldn't open up his fingers.
He started taking CBD on a daily basis, and now his hands are fully functional.
Like, whatever it was, he stopped in his tracks.
It's just inflammation, you know?
cameron hanes
Yeah, right.
Yeah, I saw, well, when Trump and Biden get here, you're going to do the DMT question, right?
joe rogan
Oh, well, I'm going to get them high first.
Both of them are going to get high.
We're going to do mushrooms.
I'm going to bring in a shaman.
cameron hanes
There was that Babylon Bee that I showed you today.
They did have a thing that said, like, Trump was on here for an epic seven-hour interview with Rogan and said, had the best marijuana possibly he's ever had.
It was, like, tremendous.
You know how Trump has these things.
But, yeah, it was so funny.
joe rogan
Amazing, amazing pot.
Can you imagine getting that guy high?
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
He doesn't even drink, does he?
joe rogan
I don't think so.
cameron hanes
Oh, this is it.
Yeah, see?
joe rogan
That's the picture.
That's a great picture.
unidentified
It is.
cameron hanes
But what was the caption, Jamie?
Can you find that?
What did it say?
Oh my God, it's hilarious.
joe rogan
It's a lively seven-hour interview with Joe Rogan.
Imagine.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Imagine how many votes he would win if he did that.
Well, I bet a lot.
I bet he'd lose a lot, too.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
He'd be like, what is happening?
You need some more of that?
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
Want some more coffee?
cameron hanes
There might be a little bit.
joe rogan
We can get some more.
cameron hanes
Okay.
joe rogan
Put the order in.
Yeah, that guy, he's not taking anything but perhaps a few uppers to help with speeches.
You see with the Biden thing, Trump said he wanted to do a drug test before debates.
cameron hanes
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
No.
What does he think Biden's on?
joe rogan
Oh, they got him hopped up on something.
cameron hanes
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah, if you're that tired, I guarantee you they're doing something with him.
cameron hanes
He, him talking, oh my god, it's just, it's painful.
I mean, it's like, I feel embarrassed.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's sad.
It's sad, and then there's the tremendous pressure that's involved in that job.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I couldn't imagine.
I mean, not being at your best.
That's what I've always, I mean, I've always been, I just don't get how there's these people have been in politics for 50 years, and I'm like, Okay, good job.
Thank you.
You did it.
You served whoever.
But isn't there somebody better?
I mean, smarter, younger, like more energized?
Why do we have these 80-year-old guys?
unidentified
I don't know.
joe rogan
It doesn't make any sense.
cameron hanes
I mean, there's got to be people who are just like on the top of their game.
You can't be at the top of your game when you're 80.
joe rogan
You got to wonder like what it is, what it is with the powers that be that decided to go with him.
Did they think that he's a known, a known name of former vice president?
So that, that brings them to, but there was obviously some shenanigans because they were really worried about Bernie Sanders taking the nomination.
They were really worried that he was going to enact some radical change to the democratic party.
And they, they were not looking forward to that at all.
So, you know, They stepped in, got Mayor Pete and Amy Klobuchar and all those other people to back out, to back down, and then all the delegates went to Biden, and then Biden winds up being the guy, and you almost feel bad for the guy.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I mean, that can't be our best option for running.
I mean, so whoever wins, you want to feel confident.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
And I know people on the other side of where I am don't feel confident in Trump.
joe rogan
I think they're banking on Harris.
They're banking on people saying, well, she's young and healthy.
She'll take over.
cameron hanes
She is young.
I mean, so it goes to that point of being young and You know, energetic, but yeah, I mean, she's kept a lot of people in jail.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I don't know.
Man, politics, what a mess.
joe rogan
It's gross.
It's gross.
And I don't know what the best way to do it is.
You know, I think our founding fathers had some pretty brilliant ideas.
cameron hanes
How were they so dialed in so long ago?
joe rogan
It's amazing.
cameron hanes
To know they write this constitution not to protect the people from the government from overstepping.
How did they know?
I mean, maybe because it was the king and queen.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think they saw just...
I mean, people had an understanding...
Of psychology back then, of just human beings and just the natural tendency of people to abuse power and to abuse influence.
And I think they just came out with a really brilliant way to sort of have checks and balances to keep that from getting completely out of hand.
It's amazing.
It really is amazing if you stop and think about that, you know.
cameron hanes
And how old does...
There's this young man, Madison Cawthorn.
He has...
I think he's like the...
I don't know.
I can't remember what seat he won.
But one of the youngest ever won an election.
I think it's in North Carolina.
But he mentioned something about the age of...
Man, who was...
unidentified
Jefferson?
Jefferson?
cameron hanes
Yeah, like how old were they?
joe rogan
Well, people didn't live that long back then.
They got like toothaches and died.
cameron hanes
Right.
Were they in their 20s?
joe rogan
I wonder.
Let's Google.
How old was Thomas Jefferson when he drafted the Declaration of Independence?
How old do you think he is?
and it's close to 40 i believe close to 40. still pretty amazing yeah or maybe you know maybe what if you go back and you actually look at him he looks exactly like jared kushner wait everybody does it's him uh an agent 1776 thomas jefferson was 33. wow so young and smart as yeah i mean i think some of the guys were in their 20s 40,
jamie vernon
53, 46, 39, 35, 70 years old.
joe rogan
Who's 70?
jamie vernon
Benjamin Franklin.
unidentified
Wow!
Holy shit.
cameron hanes
He had to be eating wild game meat.
joe rogan
Yeah, for sure.
jamie vernon
He's a 30-year-old.
joe rogan
Well, he got electrocuted a bunch of times, right?
jamie vernon
26. He had a kite.
He was a 26-year-old lawyer.
cameron hanes
Who was 26?
joe rogan
Jared Kushner.
jamie vernon
Thomas Lynch Jr. from South Carolina.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Okay, see?
jamie vernon
He died three years later.
joe rogan
He died three years later.
Yeah, the stress of coming up with that fucking information.
jamie vernon
Another 26-year-old from South Carolina, lawyer plantation owner.
cameron hanes
No, he had COVID. Edward Rutledge.
joe rogan
Wow.
cameron hanes
They're counting his death as COVID, guaranteed.
joe rogan
Yeah, it is really amazing at how smart they were.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But, you know, when you read, like, letters from, like, the Civil War era, if you read letters back home, like, the way people wrote back then was so eloquent.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
At least the ones that you...
Obviously, there's probably some morons that wrote some fucking scribbles, too.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But there were some letters that were written back then where the prose is so...
It's so elegant.
It's so well-written.
So beautifully crafted, these letters that they would write.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
And you get to read them.
You go, well, what has happened between then and now?
cameron hanes
I'd like to get letters like that.
I mean, you'd feel special if you had a letter like that.
God, I know.
joe rogan
The way they communicated back then was just different.
jamie vernon
Do you think people would have spiced up how they wrote, just in case they'd know it wasn't going to be personal correspondence?
They wouldn't want people to think they're dumb, so they'd spice it up?
joe rogan
But the problem is when a dummy writes things and tries to make them seem smart, have you ever gotten an email from someone that's dumb that tries to be smart?
jamie vernon
They just would have someone else write it for them back then.
Like, hey, I can't write this, but write a letter to my girlfriend.
Make it sound good.
Tell her I miss her.
Send it off.
joe rogan
Perhaps.
jamie vernon
I'm just wondering, because people do that now.
joe rogan
Yeah, they do.
They have ghostwriters.
jamie vernon
Would they have done it back then?
cameron hanes
We're a little more diabolical now, though.
joe rogan
I wonder if there was a market for ghostwriters back then, for letters back home.
jamie vernon
Had to be, because there's only so many people that could write.
joe rogan
I don't know about that.
unidentified
I don't know.
jamie vernon
I'm just saying.
joe rogan
I don't know about that.
jamie vernon
Or even the access to the tools to write.
joe rogan
But a quill.
Feather?
jamie vernon
To make it look good.
joe rogan
I wonder.
jamie vernon
Paper?
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I don't know.
jamie vernon
Just wonder.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, I think people were, it was a harder time.
And during harder times, people are more disciplined.
And people that are more disciplined probably are more, they're harder on their children about learning and grades.
It probably wasn't so flippant.
Because it's like the consequences of not succeeding in life back then were literal starvation.
It was a different time.
And I think when you have those consequences, you develop stronger people.
You develop people with...
They don't have any room for error.
There's no...
You can't fuck off.
cameron hanes
No.
joe rogan
You won't make it.
cameron hanes
No.
I know.
It's pretty amazing to think that We're still going by the doctrine they came up with.
joe rogan
Amazing.
And it's the best one we have.
No one's come up with a better doctrine.
cameron hanes
Where is your pocket?
Didn't Tim Kennedy give you a pocket?
joe rogan
It's at home.
I have it framed.
cameron hanes
You don't have it with you?
joe rogan
No.
It's in my pocket.
It's going to get gum on it and shit.
cameron hanes
You need to reference it.
joe rogan
It'll get scratched up.
A pen will leak on it.
I can't have that.
cameron hanes
Okay.
unidentified
I need it at home.
cameron hanes
I thought that was a good gift and he gave you a gun.
That's cool.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Jamie's been shooting everybody.
That's all he does now.
cameron hanes
Well, that's what people with guns do.
joe rogan
That's what I've been hearing.
Joe Biden's going to put a stop to that.
I was watching some video where he was talking about making gun manufacturers responsible for shootings.
It was the weirdest analogy that he was drawing.
And then he went on and erroneously said that guns kill 150 million people a year.
And I was like, what?
Or 150 million people since a certain amount of time.
That doesn't make any sense at all.
But the thing that he was saying was that imagine if drug companies weren't responsible for people dying of drugs.
Well, hey, Joe, they're not.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I don't know if you know that.
But they're not.
I mean, do you know how many people die every year from drug overdoses?
cameron hanes
I don't.
joe rogan
How many?
A lot.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
How many people are going to jail for that?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Is there any?
cameron hanes
Nobody.
joe rogan
Are these drug companies really responsible for that?
Are they really being held accountable?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I don't think they are.
joe rogan
Occasionally.
cameron hanes
Maybe the street dealer's going to jail.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, occasionally drug companies get in trouble, you know, like for opioid deaths or for misrepresenting the dangers of the addictions to opioids or some of their drugs.
That's true.
Sometimes they get fined and they get in trouble.
But what he was saying was really weird.
It's like people say things just because they think that people want to hear solutions.
Like, hey, there's all these guns and shooting.
Someone better do something.
And then someone will come along and say something like that, like, guns are responsible for 150 million people every year.
cameron hanes
And here's what I'm going to do.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I know.
joe rogan
Do you remember when he got confronted by that guy at an auto factory?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Do you remember that?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And the guy was like, you're trying to take away guns.
unidentified
Didn't he cuss him out?
joe rogan
You're full of shit.
cameron hanes
Yeah, he cussed him out.
joe rogan
He got old grandpa on him.
cameron hanes
Well, that's a problem with, you know, how...
So when you get old, you know, I'm not...
I don't want to...
Talk shit about old people, but you can't think you're just not at your best.
So what happens, what I see, and maybe he has dementia, maybe not, but those guys get, they're cranky.
They get mad.
They can't think of what they want to say fast enough.
So instead they just get mad.
And that's what it seems like he does.
He like lashes out and comes up.
joe rogan
You're full of shit.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Dog-faced pony soldier.
Did you see that one?
joe rogan
Yeah, that was a good one, too.
cameron hanes
What is?
I don't even know what that is.
joe rogan
You're a lying dog-faced pony soldier.
That's a great thing to say to someone.
cameron hanes
It's the first time I've ever heard it.
joe rogan
It should be a good band.
Dogface Pony Soldier.
cameron hanes
That would be a good band.
joe rogan
Good name for a band.
Like a weird funk band.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Dogface Pony Soldier.
cameron hanes
I like it.
joe rogan
Yeah, I could see them in Coachella.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's a thing that, you know, when he gets mad like that, too, it's almost like it's a tough guy thing, too.
It's like he's around all these hard men that are working in a factory, and he's like, you're full of shit.
I'll show you guys I'm a fucking man.
cameron hanes
It reminded me of Floyd Mayweather, and he knocked out Victor Ortiz when they were kissing or whatever they did, but Jim Gray.
Kissing.
Well, remember?
joe rogan
Victor Ortiz headbutted him.
cameron hanes
I know, but then they made up.
joe rogan
No, Victor Ortiz went to make up with Floyd Mayweather.
cameron hanes
They did.
joe rogan
And Floyd Mayweather was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, boom!
cameron hanes
Yeah, but it wasn't Jim Gray.
It was an older...
God, what's his name?
joe rogan
Larry Merchant?
cameron hanes
Yes, Larry Merchant.
And Larry Merchant said that if he was 50 years younger, he'd kick Floyd's ass.
joe rogan
Oh, I remember that, yeah.
cameron hanes
I was like, okay, no you wouldn't have.
joe rogan
No you wouldn't have.
cameron hanes
It reminded me of he got mad and then he was just going to kick his ass.
joe rogan
But what a crazy thing to say to literally one of the greatest boxers that's ever put on gloves.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, you can make an argument who the greatest boxer of all time is, but you better have Floyd Mayweather in that argument.
cameron hanes
He's going to be in there.
And probably if you're holding a microphone, you probably weren't ever going to kick his ass.
jamie vernon
What's up with the Mayweather fighting Logan Paul?
joe rogan
Yes, yes.
Well, Logan Paul wants to make some money.
cameron hanes
I got Logan Paul in that fight.
joe rogan
Well, one thing I will tell you, Logan Paul is a really good athlete and he's an enormous man.
Now, if it was an MMA fight, I would pick Logan Paul.
cameron hanes
Listen to me.
joe rogan
There's a video of Logan Paul wrestling with Paulo Costa.
It's a real live wrestling sparring session where he is exhibiting real skill.
He knows how to scramble.
He's got real wrestling skill.
cameron hanes
He wrestled in high school.
joe rogan
I think he wrestled in college as well.
cameron hanes
Oh, did he?
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
No, didn't.
Just in high school.
cameron hanes
But he was good though, right?
joe rogan
Did he go to college?
jamie vernon
He went to OU. He didn't wrestle?
The biggest party school in the country.
joe rogan
Oh, just partied?
cameron hanes
So he's from Ohio, right?
That's why you know Ohio.
jamie vernon
That's why I know, yeah.
joe rogan
He knows everything Ohio.
How good was he in high school?
jamie vernon
I remember hearing, I don't know if he won state, but I'll check that real quick.
joe rogan
Either way, him with Paulo Costa.
Paulo is the UFC's number one contender in the middleweight division.
unidentified
And the most beautiful man in the UFC. Perfect specimen of a man.
joe rogan
And a wrecking machine.
Just a fucking wrecking machine.
And the two of those guys, they're doing a wrestling drill and sparring, and Logan Paul is hanging in there, man, with an elite MMA world championship caliber fighter.
A guy who went to war with Yoel Romero and walked him down.
I mean, Paulo Costa is a monster.
And Logan Paul is hanging in there.
I don't care what anybody says.
What I saw in that, I'm like, that kid is impressive.
cameron hanes
No, he's got to be 6'1".
jamie vernon
He might actually did.
He joined the wrestling team.
This says Ohio State and Athens, which is not just OU. So he might have joined the team.
I don't know if he had a record, if he performed with them.
joe rogan
Okay, so he did a little bit of wrestling in college, but he wrestled in high school as well.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Either way.
cameron hanes
He's a big dude.
joe rogan
He's a big dude and he's a real athlete.
And one of the things that I saw, you know, I know he lost his boxing match.
They had a draw the first time that he lost the second time.
But when I'm seeing him throw punches, like he's very athletic.
He throws punches with good technique, you know, but obviously the other kid that he boxed with did as well.
But there's such a difference between that and Floyd Mayweather.
In a boxing match, it's going to be hilarious.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
The only thing is that Floyd is so much smaller than him.
cameron hanes
Yeah, he's got to be, compared to Logan, tiny.
That's why I say I got the one...
joe rogan
Logan's a big guy.
cameron hanes
I got the one-punch Logan KO. Oh my God, that's so hilarious.
joe rogan
Could you imagine if he did?
Could you imagine if he clips Floyd Mayweather in a temple and he'll see Floyd Mayweather do a chicken dance?
cameron hanes
Imagine what the crowd would do.
Imagine what anybody would do.
If there would be a crowd.
joe rogan
I wonder when they're going to be able to have it.
Let's do it in China or some shit.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Fuck it.
cameron hanes
I don't know.
I'm just pretty impressed with how Logan Paul has, for a young kid, has made so much money.
joe rogan
Yeah, just talking a lot of shit.
cameron hanes
And turned these opportunities to fight Floyd?
What?
joe rogan
I know.
But the thing about it is, like, who's going to sanction that?
The weight classes are so different.
cameron hanes
It could be 50 pounds different.
joe rogan
It could be 50 pounds plus.
It could be more.
I don't think Floyd walks around at more than 155 pounds.
cameron hanes
Probably not.
joe rogan
Maybe 160 at the most.
And when he's in shape, less than that probably.
cameron hanes
But here's the crazy thing.
I'll watch the shit out of that.
joe rogan
I'll watch the shit out of it too.
cameron hanes
I mean, everybody will.
joe rogan
We were talking about Mike Tyson versus Roy Jones Jr. A lot of people are like, what are we doing?
What is happening here?
I like the fact that they decided not to do it September 12th, so it already would have happened.
They decided to extend it deep into November, give everybody a chance to really train and ramp up the promotion and let everybody know.
And it's more and more exciting every day.
Roy Jones Jr. was posting some shit on his Instagram.
Dude, he's still got some hair.
Hand speed.
Yeah.
See if you can find that.
And he's coming in here soon.
jamie vernon
I was looking for Logan Paul Wrestling Coast, and all I'm finding in them is play sparring.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's a little bit of boxing play sparring, but there's a bunch of wrestling scrambling in there that's really impressive.
jamie vernon
Not in the video I saw.
Well, I'm telling you it's real.
I know, I know.
I'm looking.
cameron hanes
Do you have to do another retraction?
jamie vernon
No, no, I'm just looking.
joe rogan
I might have to.
I apologize.
I lied about Logan Paul Wrestling.
cameron hanes
Just do it in advance.
Do it for everything.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Just in case.
joe rogan
That fight is going to be one of the most ridiculous things ever, though.
If you can get a YouTube star to box the literal best boxer in the last 100 years.
cameron hanes
Yeah, of all time.
Never lost.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
15-0.
joe rogan
So, yeah, but back it up before that.
Yeah, let them scramble.
The jiu-jitsu train.
Okay, so this is just jiu-jitsu training.
They're rolling around the mat, but they do some scrambles.
See, I don't know how much Logan has trained jiu-jitsu, but watch the wrestling.
Watch this, though.
Seriously.
The kid can wrestle.
Like, come on, they're not showing it?
cameron hanes
What?
joe rogan
What kind of horse shit is this?
Is this because they want him to look good?
I don't know.
Oh, goddammit.
I know it's there.
cameron hanes
Hey, what about the full...
Oh, no.
joe rogan
What do we got?
Come on.
Show me some shit.
That's it?
Well, it exists.
cameron hanes
It's somewhere.
joe rogan
So they did a lot of sparring.
Like boxing sparring for sure.
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
This is just showing...
Let it go right here.
Let's see what happens here.
cameron hanes
Come on, Logan.
joe rogan
Show me some wrestling, bro.
It's amazing that Paul Costa can make 185 pounds.
That's what's amazing.
The dude walks around at 230 and he's a tank.
He could be a heavyweight.
jamie vernon
230?
Close, similar.
joe rogan
I swear it's real!
I swear it's not like the Antifa guys lighting fires in Portland.
It's real!
cameron hanes
They did the getting arrested part.
joe rogan
Maybe I'll find it.
No, I don't want to do that.
jamie vernon
There's videos of him wrestling from high school.
joe rogan
There's no videos of him wrestling Paulo Costa.
jamie vernon
That video right there was the best I could find.
I'm looking harder.
joe rogan
Son of a bitch.
cameron hanes
Jamie, come on.
joe rogan
Jamie's punishing me for the Portland thing.
jamie vernon
There's this video of him saying it's getting knocked out, but that was 100% staged.
joe rogan
That's 100% fake.
Well, he's smart.
He's getting a lot of attention.
I just think he's going to be whiffing at air.
cameron hanes
Oh, yeah.
How would you ever hit Floyd?
But if that one connects, that's what I got my money on.
joe rogan
That would be so bananas.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
Imagine if Floyd goes 50-1.
unidentified
Because Logan's jacked, dude.
joe rogan
Because he gets KO'd by Logan Paul.
cameron hanes
He's jacked.
I mean, he works out hard.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Oh, yeah.
cameron hanes
Super nice kid, too.
joe rogan
He's training with Shannon the Cannon Briggs.
cameron hanes
Is he?
joe rogan
Shannon the Cannon.
At least he was before that last fight that he did.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Shannon the Cannon was training with him.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Well, and he hunts, so that's good.
joe rogan
Does he?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Where does he hunt?
cameron hanes
He hunted in Ohio before.
joe rogan
What do you like?
cameron hanes
Whitetail?
unidentified
Deer, yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, no kidding.
cameron hanes
Yeah, his dad, because I went and did his podcast, took him a bow and was shot.
joe rogan
People got upset that you did his podcast.
cameron hanes
Hunters, yeah.
joe rogan
That's weird.
cameron hanes
The hunting industry is challenging.
joe rogan
That's weird, first of all, for a lot of people, that there's a hunting industry.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
There is.
joe rogan
Because that's what social media has done.
It's created like an industry.
cameron hanes
That's why I'm here.
jamie vernon
Him and his brother, and I think the dad, sharing hunting stories.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Oh.
Interesting.
You can find that, but you can't find the fucking wrestling footage.
unidentified
Yeah.
jamie vernon
I see.
joe rogan
I see.
unidentified
It's not.
joe rogan
Oh, I see.
jamie vernon
It's not how it works.
joe rogan
I get it.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Well, who's going to win Tyson Jones?
joe rogan
I do not want to say, because I do not know.
But see if you can find Roy Jones Jr. training footage.
cameron hanes
And then...
joe rogan
Just put up some new stuff, I think yesterday or the day before, that's pretty legit.
cameron hanes
And then you know what we're going to get?
We're going to get Tyson Logan Paul.
joe rogan
Oh my god, that would be a murder scene.
jamie vernon
This was three days ago, I think.
joe rogan
He's still got hand speed.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But he's still got the same style, like hands down.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Look, dude, he looks fast as fuck, though.
cameron hanes
Yeah, he does.
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, I wonder what he's going to weigh.
I mean, god damn, dude.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
His hand speed is phenomenal.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Look at that.
His thing has been speed, right?
joe rogan
Not just hand speed, but foot speed as well.
Roy has always been...
He had a weird style when he was young, which is one of the reasons why when he slowed down, it was very difficult for him to be successful.
Because Roy would, instead of jab people, he would leap in with a left hook.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
He had a crazy left hook, man.
cameron hanes
Like a hook jab.
Kind of like a weird hook.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, and he used that in lieu of a jab sometimes, like a lot of times.
And he did crazy shit, like put his hands behind his back and then knocked people out.
He was so good when he was young.
That song he made, Y'all Must Have Forgot, a lot of people did forget.
cameron hanes
Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan
I remember, man, when I was a younger man and Roy Jones Jr. was in his prime, you would just see who's getting executed this week.
And one time he had a fight the day he had a full basketball game.
So he had a full basketball game, he played semi-pro basketball, and then after the basketball game, had a fight.
cameron hanes
Wow.
joe rogan
And won the fight.
People are like, this is disrespectful.
This is the Roy Jones Jr. highlight.
I mean, come on, son.
He was so fast.
Look at this.
That fight with Vinny Pazienza, that was the only fight that CompuBox ever scored where there was no punches landed on Roy for an entire round.
cameron hanes
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
He had a weird body, man.
cameron hanes
God, look at that.
joe rogan
Incredible.
But look how weird his body is.
He has enormous biceps.
His biceps were huge, but he didn't have big triceps.
cameron hanes
Oh.
joe rogan
He had a really unusual build.
Look at his biceps.
Bro, his biceps are bananas.
They're bananas.
And he had just preposterous speed and timing and confidence and everything.
cameron hanes
That would hurt so bad right there.
Look at this guy.
joe rogan
He lit people on fire and pissed on their graves.
He was just incredible.
cameron hanes
That would be...
You know how terrible it would be to fight somebody like that?
joe rogan
Oh, man.
Well, in his prime, he was so much better than everybody he was fighting.
It was just this weird...
And people were like, oh, Roy didn't fight anyone good.
Incorrect.
They were good.
They just weren't Roy Jones Jr. Roy Jones Jr. was on a totally different level for years.
The thing is, like, a fighter can only maintain that kind of RPM, that fucking...
Yeah.
RPMs that he was at.
You can only maintain that for a certain amount of time.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
You know, Fedor did it for a long time.
Anderson Silva did it for a long time.
The guys are, like, at the very, very best...
They can only hold on to it for a certain amount of years.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then the knees go, the back goes, the joints go, the hands break.
Things just...
cameron hanes
Yeah.
But isn't it kind of conventional wisdom that the power can stay, though?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
cameron hanes
So that's what, like with Tyson...
I mean, he looks fast there.
I'll say Jones looks fast.
unidentified
I found it for you.
joe rogan
Oh, here it is.
Look at this.
unidentified
Look at that.
joe rogan
Look at this.
jamie vernon
Deep on Reddit.
joe rogan
Yeah, but dude, but look at the scrambles, man.
The kid can fucking wrestle.
Like, seriously, legit.
cameron hanes
Oh, man.
joe rogan
Look at these scrambles.
Like, watch this.
See that turnaround, that duck under?
Look at this.
And Paulo Costa's a beast, dude.
unidentified
Jeez.
joe rogan
Just the scramble, the way he's spinning around and avoiding the takedown.
cameron hanes
Yeah, that's athletic.
joe rogan
Yes, very athletic.
Thank you, Jamie.
jamie vernon
Thank you.
joe rogan
I knew it was real.
cameron hanes
Retract the retraction.
joe rogan
Now, find me some Antifa guys lighting forest fires, and we're good.
He's a real athlete.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he's a big kid.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
That was impressive.
joe rogan
Very impressive.
So if it was an MMA fight, Floyd would be fucked.
cameron hanes
Yeah, for sure.
joe rogan
He would get takedown and smashed.
For sure.
100%.
Bet the house.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But it's not an MMA fight.
It's a boxing match.
And Floyd's the best of all time.
cameron hanes
One punch.
joe rogan
Good luck.
unidentified
One punch!
joe rogan
Get out of here with that shit.
I just wonder if Roy Jones Jr. is going to be able to avoid Mike Tyson's bum rush.
Avoid that style of marauding, attacking style.
Because obviously when you see the Tyson training footage, he's still got that speed.
He's still got that power.
He hits those mitts.
It's still terrifying.
I don't want to see him get hit by those Tyson hooks.
cameron hanes
If that happens, it'll be in the first minute or two.
joe rogan
The weird thing is, some people are saying that it's not a fight.
They're saying, well, it's just going to be a sparring match.
You better tell that to Tyson.
cameron hanes
No.
joe rogan
I'll tell the story that I was telling you.
This new studio...
There's a certain distance.
This table's a certain width.
And this is the exact same width.
I don't remember what it is.
I don't remember how many inches it is.
But this is the exact same width of the old table, the old studio.
But when we moved to this new place, I'm like, maybe it'd be better if it was a little more intimate.
I have a table that's a little smaller.
And then I did the interview with Tyson.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he was so...
See, I had two interviews with Tyson.
One from like 11 months ago or 10 months ago where he was like smoking weed.
He's opening a ranch.
He's got this weed ranch.
He's like super chill.
And he's introspective and philosophical.
And he's talking about his past and all his mistakes and how weed makes him a nicer person.
He likes himself on weed.
cameron hanes
And you felt comfortable at that distance.
joe rogan
Oh my God, it was great.
It was a perfect conversation.
I really enjoyed it.
And then the next time was when he's...
I mean, slimmed down.
Dude, you know these weird muscles that you have at the top of your arm?
It's like he had a golf ball shoved under his skin.
He just like jacked and ready to go.
cameron hanes
Different mindset then?
joe rogan
He felt different to be around, man.
He was so keyed up.
I mean, he's in the middle of training camp.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he was just super intense.
cameron hanes
Different person.
joe rogan
And then when he started talking about how it felt orgasmic to hurt people sometimes, I'm like, I think I need a wider table at the fucking studio.
cameron hanes
And Trump sent that out.
joe rogan
Yeah, Trump put that on his Twitter with no comment, no context, just posted that about Mike Tyson saying this.
cameron hanes
I guess he thought it was interesting.
joe rogan
But what?
Imagine you're the leader of the free world and you go posting shit about how it feels like you want to cum when you're beating people up.
cameron hanes
Makes sense.
joe rogan
And it's Mike Tyson talking about it, too.
And he's like, oh, I like it.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I'm going to repost this.
joe rogan
So that made me decide to widen this table.
If I was a little closer to him, if we were this close, I might be nervous.
It might affect my ability to do the conversation.
cameron hanes
A couple inches.
joe rogan
Yes.
What is it, six extra inches, Jamie, that we widened the table?
Yeah, directly because of Mike Tyson interview.
I was like, yikes!
cameron hanes
So, yeah, so he's...
I think they call that the eye of the tiger.
joe rogan
Yeah, oh yeah, the eye of the tiger.
He's ready.
He's ready.
unidentified
Oh, man.
joe rogan
But the thing is, like...
What happens if Roy can move away from him?
What happens if Roy can avoid the attack?
And how are they going to treat this?
Are they going to treat it like a sparring session?
Or are they going to treat it like war?
cameron hanes
That's what originally the reports were saying it was not going to be a full-out fight.
But if Tyson's looking that intimidating, can he scale it back?
joe rogan
I don't even think he knows what that means.
What does that mean?
cameron hanes
I don't know.
joe rogan
I can't imagine he's going to scale it back.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And Roy Jones Jr. was saying something recently.
He thinks he might have made a mistake.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I would think that too.
joe rogan
Yeah.
But I don't know if he's being serious or joking around.
cameron hanes
He probably watched the interview with Tyson 11 months ago and thought that, oh, I'll fight this guy.
This guy's cool.
If you watch this recent one, that's when he thought, I think I made a mistake.
joe rogan
Maybe.
But the fact that he would say that, I can't imagine he's being serious.
Or unless he wants to make a lot of money.
cameron hanes
Isn't it crazy how Tyson can make money for how long has it been?
You know, his 85 is when he first broke in.
So how many years is this?
unidentified
I know.
cameron hanes
I mean, it's been a fucking while and he's still Tyson.
joe rogan
I think the last time he fought was...
I want to say the early 2000s, like 2005 maybe?
cameron hanes
I just know when he first came up as like 85 because I think I was a junior or senior or something like that.
But yeah, 35 years ago.
joe rogan
I remember when he was on the cover of Sports Illustrated.
He was 19 years old.
It said Kid Dynamite.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it was him at 19 years old.
The most exciting heavyweight prospect.
cameron hanes
Dude, when Tyson would fight, it was an event.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
It was an execution.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You'd watch people get executed.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I remember I watched the fight where he lost to Buster Douglas after I knew the result.
cameron hanes
Oh.
joe rogan
And I still didn't believe it.
I was like, he's going to get up.
He's going to knock him out.
Like, this is Mike Tyson.
He can't lose.
cameron hanes
I was at some duplex.
And I remember him.
When he was...
On his hands and knees looking for his mouthpiece.
I was like, what is going on?
joe rogan
The world has gone crazy.
It's gone haywire.
It didn't seem real.
cameron hanes
No, that was crazy.
joe rogan
I can't imagine he's going to dial it back.
See if you can find Roy's exact statement when he said he thinks he made a mistake.
Because that to me is like, huh.
cameron hanes
Or is he selling it?
joe rogan
Right.
Is he selling it?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know.
joe rogan
I don't know.
Roy's smart.
He's a great commentator.
He's one of the best commentators in the game.
cameron hanes
I met him one time.
Me, you, him.
joe rogan
In Vegas, after fights.
We were eating steak.
I think that was at Mandalay Bay.
cameron hanes
Is that the place that steakhouse we always go?
joe rogan
That's the one at the MGM. Did we eat there?
I think we ate the one at Mandalay Bay, if I remember correctly.
But...
Yeah, but he's been fighting much more recently.
Roy Jones on Mike Tyson exhibition match.
I made a mistake going in with him.
Tyson is still one of the strongest, most explosive people who ever touched a boxing glove, Jones said.
What does it say here?
He's still Mike Tyson, still one of the strongest, most explosive people who ever touched a boxing glove.
If anything, I made a mistake going in with him.
He's the bigger guy.
He's the explosive guy, he said.
He's going to have all the first-round fireworks, not me.
I do have first-round fireworks, but he's known for more first-round fireworks than anybody to ever touch boxing other than maybe George Foreman.
Jones' apprehension follows remarks Tyson made last month where he called the match a search and destroy.
Oh, Jesus Christ.
unidentified
Oh, Jesus Christ.
joe rogan
Imagine you're at home.
Look, I'm just going to check Twitter before I go to bed.
cameron hanes
Yeah, you see that?
joe rogan
Search and Destroy.
Tyson says, this is Search and Destroy and I'm looking forward to recapturing my glory.
Tyson told TMZ Sports, the fighting game is what I'm about and hurting people is what I'm about.
Oh my God.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's so interesting for me to see, like Jamie and I talked about it right after Tyson left.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But Jamie was like, okay, that was a different person.
cameron hanes
From 11 months ago, you mean?
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
jamie vernon
Everything.
unidentified
Everything.
jamie vernon
All of it.
He wasn't ready to fight back then, and then all of a sudden...
cameron hanes
Yeah.
jamie vernon
Yeah.
Everything he's just been saying in the last five minutes, but intense.
joe rogan
He was saying to us during the podcast the first time, he's like, I don't even work out.
He goes, if I work out, I'll reignite my ego.
He goes, I don't want to do that.
cameron hanes
I remember that.
Yes.
joe rogan
And then one of the quotes that he said in this comeback, he said, the gods of war have reignited my ego.
cameron hanes
God.
joe rogan
The gods of war!
What a fucking terrifying human.
cameron hanes
What I remember is seeing some of those clips of him punching lately with all that power is his legs.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I mean, you know that's where the power...
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I saw his quads or his hamstring, just the size of his legs.
I'm like, God, that's a thick kid.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Like, Brendan Schaub thick.
joe rogan
He's still got it.
He's still got it.
Whatever it is, it's crazy.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's still got it.
cameron hanes
Well, I don't know.
Should be fun to watch.
joe rogan
There's a thing about having that skill when you're young.
As long as the body doesn't fall apart, as long as the shoulders still work right, and the back's not completely blown out...
Especially, and I don't know what the deal is with TRT and growth hormone and all that stuff, but he knows how to move his body, and he learned how to move his body in a way very few human beings can do.
The way he has that shell, that guard, where he comes in, that peekaboo style, just bobbing and weaving and throwing fucking bombs, that is in his...
cameron hanes
Well, it's like you kicking.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
It's like you with your spinning back kicking.
joe rogan
Yeah, all that shit.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it's like you've done it since you were 15. Yeah.
joe rogan
So he's done the same thing.
unidentified
Exactly.
cameron hanes
So no matter what your body does, if you're stronger because of TRT or whatever else, that technique isn't going anywhere.
joe rogan
Yeah, your mind still knows how to do it.
I remember there was a video.
Look at this.
Mike Tyson gets more ripped with each intense training video.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Dude, this is a while ago, though.
This is a while ago.
He's way more jacked than this now.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's what's crazy.
Like, he...
This was months and months and months ago.
cameron hanes
So this is September, it says, right here.
joe rogan
Okay, so here we go, September 17th.
jamie vernon
I stopped playing this video, so I was trying to hope it would just...
joe rogan
Oh, sons of...
Oh, here it goes.
Oh, this is just a bunch of...
jamie vernon
I heard this one, though.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
This is where I saw...
Look at his legs, dude.
joe rogan
Yeah.
No, he's exploding.
And it's also...
He's an unstoppable force.
cameron hanes
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
He's an unstoppable force.
Still got it.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
The thing about him is you've got to stop him from coming.
How?
And you can't.
Yeah.
Do you ever see the most terrifying Mike Tyson fight for me is Marvis Frazier.
Did you ever see that fight?
cameron hanes
I'm sure I did.
joe rogan
Marvis Frazier, who was Joe Frazier's son.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And there was all this shit talk leading up to this fight where Joe Frazier was like, my son's going to fuck you up.
Yeah.
Okay.
You know, and there was this intensity because, you know, a lot of people had kind of compared Tyson in many ways to Frazier because they were both fairly short heavyweights.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Both had that sort of bobbing and weaving style.
Look how intense that is.
And the guy who's training him is Rafael Cordero, who's a – that's King's MMA in Huntington Beach.
Rafael Cordero is a legendary MMA coach, which is really interesting that he's the guy who's training Mike Tyson because – Well, see that quote right there?
cameron hanes
Look inside my soul and how bad I want it.
unidentified
Woo!
cameron hanes
If Tyson's like looking...
You don't want that.
joe rogan
Look at his forearm.
See what I'm talking about?
The muscles on his forearm?
Bro.
That muscle is from this.
That's from clenching and smashing.
Or you're doing chin-ups and shit.
But that's like the fist muscle.
Dude, fucking terrifying.
He's so terrifying!
But Rafael Cordero, the guy who's training him, which is really interesting, he's not necessarily known as a boxing trainer.
He's a Muay Thai trainer.
Obviously trained Anderson Silva, trained a lot of the Curitiba guys, the shoot-a-box guys like Mauricio Shogun, Ninja, Vandale Silva, some of the all-time great MMA legends of the pioneers.
He was one of the trainers for those guys, main trainer for a lot of those guys.
cameron hanes
I wonder why he went with him.
joe rogan
I think they just started out, like, hitting pads together.
cameron hanes
Oh.
joe rogan
You know?
cameron hanes
Just get back in the groove.
joe rogan
I think he just likes the guy, and he started hitting pads together, and he likes what he was bringing to the table.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I always wonder what would have happened if...
Was it...
unidentified
Cus?
joe rogan
Cus D'Amato.
cameron hanes
If he wouldn't have died.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
It would have been a different world.
cameron hanes
I mean, because that's what kind of got Tyson.
Then he was with Don King and that whole thing and Unhealthy Lifestyle.
But when he was with Cus D'Amato, it was like, it was just, you know, singular vision of...
joe rogan
Yeah, he probably would have been even greater than he was.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.
He probably would have maintained it much longer than he did.
Yeah, I mean, Cuss probably would have kept him up in the Catskills.
Pulled him away from all the bullshit.
cameron hanes
That's what I'm thinking.
joe rogan
Yeah, we talked about it a bit, about what an amazing father figure Cuss was.
But we also talked about how Cuss hypnotized him.
cameron hanes
Really?
joe rogan
Oh yeah, man.
When he was young, Cuss hypnotized him, and that was part of his ability to seek and destroy, is that Cuss told him things like, you don't exist, just the task.
The task exists.
unidentified
Oh.
joe rogan
You know, that there's a man in front of you, and you're breaking that man down.
That's the task.
You don't exist.
Like, crazy shit like that.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
You're telling that to a 13-year-old.
unidentified
God.
joe rogan
and then you have the perfect storm of this 13 year old is incredibly physically gifted yeah right he was 13 years old he weighed 190 pounds and teddy atlas told me he would bring him to these smokers a smoker is like an amateur boxing event that they would do in boxing gyms right and he'd bring him to these smokers and everybody would lie like how many fights this guy have oh he's only had two fights kids had like 30 fights right and so they'd bring tyson he goes how old is the kid he goes he's 13 he was like That fucking kid is not 13. He's like,
okay, he's 16. How old do you want him to be?
And he goes, okay, 16. I got a 16-year-old for him.
And he just smashed this poor guy.
But he was 13. He was just smashing people.
It was the first thing that he ever did that got him real love and attention.
First thing he ever did were people like, you're special.
There's something to you.
And then he has this guy in Customato who's...
A legend in boxing.
One of the most respected, legendary trainers in boxing.
He had trained Jose Torres, Floyd Patterson.
There he is.
And he's giving this kid information and talking to this kid about what he can accomplish and what he can be.
cameron hanes
Incredible.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, look at that.
That was when he was full Jack Dempsey mode.
That was when he was 19. He was awesome, man.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I just think I would not want to be in there with him.
No.
Definitely not me.
But I mean, if I was a heavyweight boxer who's anywhere near his age, I don't want none of that.
cameron hanes
I wonder how he'd do...
If he came back in shape, I wonder how he'd do against Tyson Fury.
joe rogan
The real problem is he's, no matter what you do, he's still 54. Yeah.
No matter what you do.
cameron hanes
But those guys don't go.
joe rogan
He's still been knocked out.
Listen, yes they do.
They do.
cameron hanes
They go hard?
unidentified
Oh fuck.
joe rogan
Tyson Fury is 6'9".
Mike Tyson is pretty close to my size.
When I stand next to him, we're not in a different universe.
Tyson Fury's in a different universe than me.
When I met him, I'm like, hello, giant!
He's a giant.
And he's a big giant.
Deontay Wilder's a giant too, but he's slender.
Deontay Wilder doesn't weigh much more than me.
Really?
Which is crazy.
Dude, when he fought Tyson Fury the first time and he dropped him twice, he weighed 209. Wow.
209. Wow.
unidentified
And he's 6'9", something crazy like that.
joe rogan
6'7".
He's huge.
But he's a preposterous power puncher.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's preposterous.
cameron hanes
Yeah, 40 knockouts or something.
joe rogan
Yeah.
He knocked out everybody except one dude and Tyson Fury in the last fight.
Well, in both fights.
In the last fight, he got stopped by Tyson Fury.
cameron hanes
I love Tyson Fury's story, though, too.
joe rogan
It's amazing.
cameron hanes
I mean, yeah.
joe rogan
What a comeback.
Yeah, the fact that he was literally accelerating his Ferrari towards a bridge.
cameron hanes
To kill himself.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then decided not to and just was really fucked up.
Dude, boxing...
By itself.
Just that.
Just getting hit in the head.
It's not good for your brain.
cameron hanes
No.
joe rogan
It's just not.
And then you have cocaine and booze and chaos and fame and all those things that came after he beat Vladimir Klitschko.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he didn't just beat Vladimir Klitschko.
He humiliated him.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He mocked him.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
He taunted him.
He outboxed him.
He's such a good boxer.
He sang in the ring horrible songs.
cameron hanes
Oh, God.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I mean, he's so...
joe rogan
So good.
cameron hanes
He's so good, yeah.
I mean, technique-wise.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
It's amazing.
joe rogan
Well, and then coming back and using that guy from Kronk, Sugar Hill, right?
That's his trainer for the last fight?
I believe that's the gentleman from Kronk.
Kronk was Emanuel Stewart's gym, which created Tommy Hearns and Gerald McClellan and all these fucking assassins.
And they had this real aggressive attacking style.
And he took on that style for the second fight with Deontay.
So he came after him.
Yes, Sugarhill.
Sugarhill Stewart.
Is that Emanuel's son?
I don't know.
I don't know that.
But that would be amazing if it was.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
But he had a different style.
He came after Deontay.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he realized that Deontay does not fight as well going back.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
But Deontay hits dudes in the top of the head and puts them to sleep.
I know.
He hits guys and it's like, what happened?
They got shot with a sniper rifle.
cameron hanes
Crazy.
Such big humans.
Thinking of it now, you're right.
I mean, giants.
joe rogan
Giants.
cameron hanes
Giants with skill, though.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Tyson's so big.
Tyson Fury, he's so huge.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
All right.
So I'll go Logan Paul, Mike Tyson, if they both win.
joe rogan
You imagine if they set that up?
Listen, that's a real thing that could happen.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
It's not if they both win, because Logan's not going to win.
He's not going to win.
cameron hanes
Dude, the one punch.
joe rogan
I can't imagine that happening.
I'm not a gambling man per se, but I would be willing to bet a million dollars that he's not going to knock out Floyd Mayweather.
I'd be like, I just can't imagine a world where that takes place.
It could happen.
Don't get me wrong.
It could happen.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it's a fight game.
joe rogan
It would be the weirdest moment in all of boxing if Logan Paul connects with a big punch and knocks Floyd Mayweather out.
cameron hanes
Oh, God.
joe rogan
It would be horrible.
In a lot of ways it would be amazing.
It would be both horrible and amazing.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
It's his nephew.
joe rogan
So, you know, they devise a perfect strategy, Sugarhill and Tyson Fury in the rematch.
But then there's going to be another fight in December.
So they're fighting again.
The third fight is going to be in December.
cameron hanes
Who?
joe rogan
Deontay Wilder and Tyson Fury.
cameron hanes
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right.
Okay.
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's weird watching these fights with no audience, too.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
It's weird.
How do you...
I mean, do you like doing UFC with no...
joe rogan
I do like it, yeah.
I don't not like it.
I do like it.
The thing about it that's really strange is you hear everything.
You hear the grunt, you hear deep breaths, you hear shit talk, you hear corners, coaching, like really clearly.
You know, like, you know, 3-5, 3-5.
Like, look for the left.
Move to the side.
Stay away from his right leg.
Like, all these things.
Get out of kicking range.
Like, you hear things that you don't necessarily hear unless those guys are mic'd up.
And we, you know, sometimes, occasionally, when there's a live crowd, we'll tune into those people.
Like, you have...
You tune into them.
And then, you know, the coach...
There'll be a camera on them and we'll listen to the corner while they're giving instructions.
But it's not most of the time.
It's just occasionally.
But during these big fights with no audience, you hear everything the coaches are saying.
Everything.
jamie vernon
They have this date in December locked up for the Vegas new football stadium.
Only because they're hoping to have fans there for it.
I don't know how many, but it lines up with the NFL schedule so the venue's open.
joe rogan
How is that possible?
jamie vernon
I think they were hoping to have 15,000, I think.
So it'd be definitely distanced in there.
I don't know how, though.
cameron hanes
Yeah, because the stadium probably holds.
jamie vernon
Probably close to 80, 90. Yeah.
cameron hanes
So they'd be all spread out.
joe rogan
How weird.
cameron hanes
I know.
joe rogan
But I mean, would you want to go there?
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
15,000 people coughing.
jamie vernon
There was a football game last night in Cleveland.
There's 6,000 people there, and they still had a fight in the stands.
You know what?
People get drunk, they can watch football.
That's what they want to do.
They're going to go to Vegas.
They're going to party.
They're going to be crazy.
cameron hanes
Cleveland won.
jamie vernon
They did.
joe rogan
Hopes that fans will be able to attend.
Maybe.
Well, at a certain point in time, I believe...
cameron hanes
It's after the election.
So it'll be over.
joe rogan
Yeah, after the election, it's all going to be fine.
Unless there's riots.
Who knows what's going to happen after the election?
I mean, the world could be filled with chaos after the election.
cameron hanes
Man.
I don't know.
Where are the fights this weekend?
joe rogan
They're taking place in Vegas.
This is at the Apex Center.
And then next weekend is Fight Island.
So the next few fights are at Fight Island, but this one's at the Apex Center, which is an awesome place for fights.
It's awesome.
The acoustics are amazing.
The way they have it set up is amazing.
And the UFC, kudos to the UFC for doing the right job, doing the best job they can.
They test the shit out of everybody.
Everybody wears masks.
There it is.
Fight night.
What's the card?
Let me see the card.
I know Cowboy's on the card against Nico Price.
That is a tough fight.
And that dude, Kamzat...
I don't know how you say his last name.
Chemaev?
cameron hanes
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
He's a beast.
That kid is a beast.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's an interesting fight.
cameron hanes
Very confident.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
But Gerald Mearshart has got a lot of experience, man.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
unidentified
Lots of fights.
joe rogan
Look at that.
cameron hanes
44 fights.
joe rogan
44 fights.
Johnny Walker and Ryan Spann.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
cameron hanes
Oh, Mackenzie Dern.
joe rogan
Kevin Holland, Darren Stewart.
This is good fights, Mackenzie Dern.
Yeah, good fights.
cameron hanes
Who do you got in the headliner?
Colby?
joe rogan
Listen, Tyron Woodley is one of the greatest welterweights of all time.
There's no doubt about it.
But his last two fights have not been his best.
He lost two decisions in a row.
But he also lost two decisions in a row to a guy in Kamaru Usman, who I think is one of the greatest of all time.
I think Usman is just an unstoppable beast.
And you saw, he's the only guy that's been able to shut down Colby.
That's how good Kamaru Usman is.
Shut him down, outlasted him, and then wound up beating Colby up in the final round, broke his jaw, stopped him.
But if Tyron Woodley can regain the form that he had when he beat Darren Till, the form that he had when he knocked out Robbie Lawler, the form that he had when he was at the top of his game, he gives everybody problems.
But the question is, what has been going on?
Is it just that He's meeting some of the best guys ever, like in Gilbert Burns, who's elite.
Gilbert Burns is elite.
And Kamaru Usman is elite.
But you can make an argument that he's lost 10 rounds in a row, the last 10 rounds in a row, which is incredible.
If you think about before that fight, if you go back to before the fight with Kamaru Usman, and if someone told you Tyron Woodley before this fight is going to lose 10 rounds in a row, you'd be like, get the fuck out of here.
He's a destroyer.
Tyron Woodley's a destroyer.
Sometimes fighters have peaks and valleys, and sometimes they return better and stronger than ever, and sometimes it's the start of a downward slide.
And Colby is a real test to find out where he's at, because there's going to be a lot of emotions coming into this fight.
And Tyron for sure is the bigger puncher.
For sure.
Tyron is a legit one-punch knockout artist.
But Colby has a third lung.
He's got a crazy gas tank.
And you can't just take him out.
You've got to beat him down.
Like Usman beat him down.
And even then, he was protesting the stoppage with a jaw literally snapped in half, blood pouring out of his mouth, and pissed that they stopped the fight.
cameron hanes
He's a tough kid.
joe rogan
He's a fucking animal.
He's a fucking animal.
And he's an animal that wants the belt.
And he wants to get back in there with Usman.
cameron hanes
And his striking looked pretty good in that fight.
joe rogan
Pretty fucking good.
cameron hanes
And so we know he's a wrestler.
He's got, I think, the most takedowns right now of anybody active.
joe rogan
Well, he has a crazy pace.
We were talking about Michael Chiesa.
You were saying that Michael Chiesa said you can't just have a good camp.
cameron hanes
It has to be your best camp ever.
joe rogan
Yeah.
If you're fighting Colby, you better pack a fucking lunch.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's got a pace that's just hard to believe, man.
cameron hanes
Right.
And that's...
Woodley's kryptonite.
joe rogan
In some ways, it has been Woodley's kryptonite.
It certainly was in the Usman fight, but the thing about Woodley is, at least in those camps and in these moments in the past, he has had personal problems, he's had career issues, he's had distractions, like he was starting a rap career, he was involved in a lot of other things that...
I think when a fighter is at their best, they are of a singular mission.
And that singular mission is to seek and destroy and to just train and to just fight.
I think everything else on top of that, you can do it.
You can do it.
Maybe you'll be successful.
Maybe you win by knockout.
Maybe you're just better.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But maybe not.
Maybe it'll sap just a little bit of you.
And maybe those exchanges where you could come out on top, you don't.
The other guy comes out on top.
And then you drop down a little bit.
And then you don't have the recovery because you haven't trained as hard as maybe you could have.
Or the distractions have kept you from just being completely focused and centered on your game.
I think that you saw that with Ronda Rousey.
As Ronda Rousey got more and more famous, there was more and more distractions, there was movie scripts, and there was television shows, there was all these different things that came to her.
And at the end of the day, there was also Holly Holm, who was the best striker she ever faced, and Holly stopped her.
And it changed the whole game.
Well, the thing about Colby Covington is that all that motherfucker does is train and talk shit.
He trains and talks shit and makes videos.
Makes videos with girls in their bikinis and he's talking shit in those videos too.
He's wearing a MAGA hat.
And there's so much emotions when you're fighting him.
cameron hanes
But that's the only time he's not training.
I mean, he is so focused on training and getting to be the best.
joe rogan
You know him well.
Let's just tell people.
You've trained with him.
You've run together.
He's trained at your gym.
cameron hanes
Yeah, he has.
And he's just a hardworking kid.
He's got the best attitude, the most respectful guy.
It's what he does on camera.
It's a whole different thing.
But when he's there to train, that's all he cares about.
And that's what he does every single day.
It's like he's obsessed.
With being the best.
And it's tough to, you know, when you're at your prime and you're as good as he is, we talked about talent, and then also you train and you eliminate those distractions, that's a package.
joe rogan
Yeah, and I think that training with you also, when you took that dude running and you run Mount Pisgah, how do you say that?
cameron hanes
Pisgah.
joe rogan
Pisgah.
But why has it got a P in there?
cameron hanes
Pisgah?
unidentified
It's P-I-S-G-A-H. How's that?
joe rogan
Piska?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
There should be a G in there somewhere.
cameron hanes
No, P-I-S-G-A-H. Yeah, but how do you say it?
joe rogan
You're not saying it with a G. Piska.
Gah.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I thought you were saying Piska.
Say it again.
cameron hanes
Maybe I do.
Piska.
joe rogan
Yeah, see?
There's no G in there.
cameron hanes
Whatever.
You're not saying the G. It's just like people who say Oregon.
It's Oregon.
joe rogan
Oregon.
But gun.
Gun is still G. Okay.
Piska.
There's a K in there.
cameron hanes
I'm just saying that when you're from there, you just say...
joe rogan
Okay, I get it.
But when he runs down with you and he realizes, like, wow, there's levels to endurance.
There's levels to cardio.
That has got to help him.
I mean, the guy your age, you're so much older than him, and you're, like, way outpacing him when you guys are running together.
Like, that's got to let him know, like, Jesus Christ.
Like, as much as you think you're pushing it...
The grind never stops.
And someone like you who does that grind every fucking day, you get to this level of endurance and people that think they're in good shape.
I talked to a bunch of the Sorenix guys that went running with you.
And they're like, yeah, I thought I was in pretty good shape.
cameron hanes
Yeah, it's different.
But Colby always has been known for cardio, so he does really well.
But he'll admit, too, that...
I mean, I'm only doing that.
I'm not hitting pads.
I'm not wrestling.
So it's like, it's easy for me to focus on endurance.
But he does say that, so it has opened his eyes, he said, to there is another level.
And that's where he's been obsessed with Gideon.
joe rogan
Yeah, the other level of endurance and conditioning has always been this place where people reach and then realize it.
I remember Tito Ortiz fought Frank Shamrock.
This was back when Tito Ortiz was at the top.
Before he was really at the top of his game.
cameron hanes
Training a big bear?
joe rogan
I think he was training a Big Bear.
I don't know if he was training a Big Bear back then.
Because this was the fight where Frank Shamrock outworked him.
And Frank Shamrock wound up beating him down and stopping him.
And when it happened, Tito became this cardio monster afterwards.
And focused on cardio.
It was a great lesson.
He realized, like, wow.
Like, I fell apart because I got exhausted.
And before, he was able to smash these people because he's just...
Really big, strong kid.
He was a very good wrestler, just tough as fuck, and he's ready to scrap.
And he wound up running into a guy in Shamrock that was trained better, was smarter, just had a better game plan, and was an insane cardio.
And Frank just outworked him and wound up stopping him.
And then Tito became this guy who realized, like, oh, cardio's everything.
I remember Kendall Grove Who was a great fighter from Hawaii, still around.
He trained with Tito on the Ultimate Fighter and then said to me, he goes, dude, it opened my eyes.
He goes, cardio is everything.
Cardio is everything.
And you realize that these guys that have a certain amount of conditioning, they have a certain amount of ability, if you add extreme cardio, then the other guy gets tired and you don't.
And when you see someone tired and you're not tired, it's amazing.
It's amazing that feeling.
You're like, Hi, what's up?
unidentified
Bang!
joe rogan
Oh, it feels amazing.
cameron hanes
And the same, fatigue makes cowards of us all.
So as a fighter, when you're fresh, you could be a whole different fighter than when you're tired.
All of a sudden...
Being choked out wouldn't be that bad.
Let me get out of here.
joe rogan
Yep.
Yep.
And that is what happens, too.
Your brain starts looking for ways out.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You give up your back.
You give up an arm.
You see guys getting mounted, and you see them literally reach up, and they're kind of giving an arm.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
They're just so tired.
They're like, take my neck.
And that's a big thing to me, the difference in the fight, is Colby was tired.
It was a fifth round.
He was beat up.
He never gave up.
joe rogan
That's true, but neither did Tyron.
You've got to realize, Tyron fought Gilbert Burns.
Gilbert Burns put a beating on him in the first round.
Tyron never looked for a way out.
He kept trying to win that fight.
Gilbert was a step ahead of him, and Gilbert wound up winning basically every round.
But Tyron never looked for a way out.
cameron hanes
Did you think that I felt like he sort of gave up against Usman?
joe rogan
I don't think he gave up.
I think that's all he had.
I think that's all he had.
cameron hanes
It didn't look like he was doing shit in that fight.
joe rogan
Well, I think, first of all, he was trying to stay alive because Usman put a beating on him.
I think it was one round.
I think it was the fourth round.
He unloaded this horrific combination on him.
And I talked to Usman about it, and he was like, I was trying to take him out.
And then I realized he wasn't going anywhere.
I was like, oh, shit.
cameron hanes
I've got my gas tank out.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I think Tyron's trying to win with everything he had, but I don't think he had enough that day.
And I talked to him about that fight afterwards and he said, that wasn't me.
He goes, I wasn't there.
Anybody who knows me knows that that wasn't me.
cameron hanes
Yeah, but so how do you do that?
How do you go to a fight and that's not you?
joe rogan
You know what we talked about?
About distractions and about all these different things.
It's hard.
Being a professional prize fighter is one of the most difficult things that anybody could do in athletics.
cameron hanes
I mean, I'm sitting on the couch talking shit.
joe rogan
But you're not sitting on the couch.
You do difficult things.
I mean, you've done the Moab 240. You've run 240 fucking miles in the mountains.
You know what difficult things are.
The thing about fighting is that you're getting hit and someone is hitting you.
There's battles, maybe as difficult, if not more difficult, the battles that play out in your own mind when you're running for three days in the mountains.
But there's something about people hitting you and about knowing that this guy...
When you're sparring...
Say, and you realize that a guy is faster than you.
You're like, oh, okay.
Like, I'm trying to do this and I'm getting cracked as I'm coming in.
His timing's better.
And you have to readjust and you're constantly thinking.
It's a crazy management battle because you're estimating what you can do and you're calculating what you need.
Like, you need to feint your way in.
You need to redirect or misdirect.
You're trying to figure it out.
So it's draining.
It's exhausting.
And then you're getting, bink!
Then you're getting dinged up.
And you're trying to win, but you just don't have it.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
You know, and that's what I saw with Tyron Woodley.
I never saw any quit.
There was no quit.
Because he could have quit.
He could have found a way out.
He's a champion.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
He could have found a way out in either one of those fights.
The thing about this Colby Covington fight is you gotta be ready.
You gotta be ready.
And if he's ready, and if we're getting the Tyron Woodley that knocked out Robbie Lawler, if we're getting the Tyron Woodley that stopped Carlos Conde, we're getting the real Tyron Woodley.
If we're getting that guy, it's gonna be an interesting fight.
Because they fucking hate each other.
They fucking hate each other.
And Tyron does not want to lose three fights in a row.
cameron hanes
No.
no and colby says he's expecting the best tyrone woodley he calls him tyrone yeah tyrone woodley you pussied out this should have been you all that shit i know this is your ass kicking yeah uh why'd you let this man take this ass beating for you yeah i mean it's gonna be so he's expecting the best yeah and he says he's just he says he's gonna end the fight If and when he wins the title, I want to get him in here.
joe rogan
I want him to tell the story of why he created this character.
Because it's a really interesting story.
Because if you talk to Colby outside the Octagon, like you said, he's a very respectful dude.
He's really smart and nice.
He's very smart.
He's there.
He's a very articulate...
Like, really engaging person.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's charismatic.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But what he realized was he was about to get cut.
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
And the UFC just, they were literally telling him, like, we don't like your style.
Right.
We don't like the way you're fighting.
We're going to cut you.
So he goes to Brazil.
cameron hanes
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
He's fighting Damian Mayan Brazil.
And he starts talking bad shit.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He calls him a bunch of filthy animals and said the place is a dump.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And everybody goes nuts and he wins.
cameron hanes
That was after he beat, I mean, he said it on the mic afterwards.
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah.
After he won.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
And Maia's never been beat up like that, has he?
joe rogan
Tyron beat him up pretty bad.
And Gilbert Burns knocked him out in his last fight.
But Damian Maia's 41, I think.
He's one of the greatest jiu-jitsu artists that's ever competed in MMA. There it is.
Look at that.
cameron hanes
Is this right now?
joe rogan
Yeah, early today.
cameron hanes
Oh, shit.
joe rogan
Look how focused Colby looks.
Goddamn.
He's so focused.
unidentified
Oh.
Oh.
joe rogan
This is intense.
This is intense.
cameron hanes
That looks good, doesn't it?
joe rogan
Tyron has a shirt on that says, legalize being black.
cameron hanes
What?
joe rogan
It's illegal, did you know?
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Colby looked good there, didn't he?
joe rogan
Yeah, he looks really, really intense.
It's hard to see if Tyron's intense because he's got glasses on.
He's wearing sunglasses.
It's a crazy fight, man.
It's a crazy fight.
cameron hanes
But yeah, Colby in Brazil, what he says is UFC said they were going to cut him, win or lose.
Yeah.
And so he made- He started talking crazy shit.
joe rogan
Everybody went nuts and then a lot of eyes on him and they're like, we like what you're doing.
So they basically, it was a career saving move that turned him into a star.
And out of nowhere, look, I talked to him before that.
He was not that guy.
Before that, he was just a guy who was training and fighting and doing really well.
cameron hanes
Well, that's who he still is.
joe rogan
And he had a great style.
I mean, his style was that style of really high pace.
Stays on people.
He only had one loss previous to the Kamaru Usman fight, and that was a fight that he took with a fucked up rib.
cameron hanes
Yeah, he was hurt and needed money.
joe rogan
He needed the cash, which is the life of a young, up-and-coming prizefighter.
But he's special.
He's not...
He tricks people with the cheap suits and the MAGA hat and all that trash talk.
That is a facade.
But the thing is, That makes it harder.
Like, to talk all that shit and then go and fight.
cameron hanes
Putting pressure on yourself.
joe rogan
Yeah, people want you to lose, man.
cameron hanes
You're putting pressure.
joe rogan
People want you to lose.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
And he's good at it.
He's good at dealing with that.
And I've heard stories about him back in college wrestling, and he still had that confidence where he'd be wrestling and talking to the crowd.
joe rogan
That's amazing.
cameron hanes
Yeah, while he's wrestling.
During the match against...
Best wrestlers in the country.
I mean...
joe rogan
Well, there's something about that that distracts the opponent, too.
You know, people do that.
Like Floyd Mayweather does a lot of that in sparring.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
James Toney was famous for that.
James Toney, who's like, without a doubt, one of the best defensive boxers of his era.
He was an amazing boxer.
And James Toney would talk mad shit during fights.
unidentified
That's it, bitch!
joe rogan
That's all you got, bitch!
And then he'd pop you with a jab and hook you.
Come on, bitch!
Come on, bitch!
unidentified
You ain't got shit!
You ain't got shit!
Pop, pop!
joe rogan
You ain't got shit!
cameron hanes
Pop, pop!
joe rogan
He did that in sparring.
Google James Toney talking shit during sparring.
It was legendary.
People would go to Wild Card Gym just to watch James Toney box and talk shit to people.
cameron hanes
Wow.
joe rogan
And he would get world championship caliber fighters and like, come on, bitch.
Let's spar, bitch.
He would take guys that maybe he would fight in the future.
He didn't care.
He was like, come on, get in here.
And he had that shoulder roll style.
cameron hanes
Kind of like Floyd.
joe rogan
Yeah, but he's thick.
He's a big, thick dude.
So he'd get up in here and get on top of guys and push them up against the rope and talk shit and hook them.
cameron hanes
That'd be rough.
joe rogan
Yeah.
His fight with Roy Jones Jr. was when they were both in their prime and James Toney was a destroyer.
And Roy Jones Jr. just was too fast, too slick.
See, if you can hear this, can you hear some of this?
He just talks shit.
Oh, that's Danny Green, who is a world-class fighter.
Look how thick he is.
Goddamn James Toney looks good here.
Look how big he is.
cameron hanes
Oh.
joe rogan
I don't know if there's shit talking in this or if it's just like regular boxing sparring.
But Danny Green, I believe when these guys sparred, Danny Green was a top contender.
Rogan made this video famous 12 years ago.
jamie vernon
Let's talk about it six months ago.
joe rogan
It says 12 years after I uploaded it.
Oh, that's hilarious.
cameron hanes
That's good.
joe rogan
That's hilarious.
Well, I made it famous again.
I love watching boxing sparring matches.
I love watching anything.
unidentified
He said you're scared to get hit.
jamie vernon
You're European.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
Oh, gosh.
joe rogan
See?
That fucks with people's heads.
cameron hanes
Yeah, definitely.
Then you take a stiff jab.
joe rogan
Yeah.
She's talking shit to whoo Come on Oh god those punches are stout oh Yeah, well, he was just fantastic at these really tight, in-close combat fights of giving you a shoulder and popping you with short hooks and turning angles on you.
He was just super skillful.
He just wasn't the most disciplined guy.
So a lot of times he would show up for fights.
He didn't have big cams.
jamie vernon
I brought it up because Radio Rahim, he filmed those.
unidentified
Oh, that's right!
jamie vernon
That's what that was.
joe rogan
That's right.
He also fought in the UFC. He fought Randy Couture.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I remember that.
joe rogan
Randy Couture just hit him with a low ankle and took him down, mounted him.
I think he arm-trangled him.
I think he got him in a head and arm choke.
cameron hanes
I mean, you said you like watching training.
I mean, that's how you watched me shooting when you first wanted to have me on the podcast years ago.
So what is it about?
It's like watching people put in work for a discipline.
Is that what you're...
You like to see?
Or is that what everybody likes to see?
joe rogan
I get inspired by greatness.
People that are great at anything.
Even great at shit that I don't ever want to do.
Like if I see a guy play the harp, he's fucking awesome at it.
I get fired up.
cameron hanes
Yeah, me too.
joe rogan
I just love watching people put in work.
I think there's something that's an incredible resource that we have today with videos, whether it's YouTube videos or any kind of video on Instagram or what have you where you can watch them and you get fired up.
That's a boundless resource.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, you need discipline to get things done in this life.
But inspiration's nice.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's nice.
unidentified
It helps.
joe rogan
Give you a little extra juice.
You won't get there without discipline.
unidentified
Yeah, it helps.
joe rogan
Like, if you only trained when you were inspired, fuck.
Good luck.
You're not going to get fat.
unidentified
Right.
cameron hanes
Yeah, that's right.
joe rogan
You need discipline.
But inspiration's nice.
It's nice to have.
There's something about it.
To me, I just take advantage of it.
I think it's an amazing resource.
So whether it's watching a guy like you shoot and watching your dedication and your training footage and all that stuff.
I love the fact that you're always putting the Sorenix Lab on Instagram and you do those long videos where you and...
Who's in there with you?
Is it Eric the trainer, dude?
cameron hanes
No, that's Eric.
Nick the trainer dude.
joe rogan
Nick the trainer dude.
cameron hanes
Eric McCormick is outlaw strength.
joe rogan
Outlaw strength, that's right.
But that you do it with these guys and you have these, you bring people in to train with you and you have these, it just, I need to know that other people are working.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I like it.
unidentified
I like it.
joe rogan
I want to see it.
I want to see motion.
It makes me want to put my fucking shoes on and go!
cameron hanes
It's weird because those videos, sometimes they'll get, for me is a lot, but 200,000 views on just lifting.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Isn't that crazy?
cameron hanes
But so people, Aren't unlike you.
I mean, they want that too.
joe rogan
They love it.
Those Goggins videos.
I put a Goggins video on my page of the day.
I got two million views.
Crazy.
Yeah, because it's just him talking shit about himself, which is what's hilarious.
He's talking shit about his own lack of motivation.
cameron hanes
Is that where he said he videoed himself?
Being a bitch.
Yeah.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He goes, I sound like a straight bitch!
cameron hanes
God, I love that guy.
joe rogan
Stay hard!
cameron hanes
I love that guy.
How could he not make somebody want to work harder?
joe rogan
You are going to work harder than you were going to work out, for sure.
You're not going to probably work out as hard as him, but you're going to work out harder than you would have, knowing that there's dudes like that out there.
I think that's what people need to realize, and I think you provide that as well.
Because people have this idea of how hard they're working, and it's usually grossly inflated.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Most people, they don't have the experience of driving themselves on a daily basis to excellence.
They kind of put in some work, and then they pat themselves on the back.
They think they did a good job.
unidentified
Yeah, right.
joe rogan
Even guys who kind of work out kind of hard, like, I'm fucking in there hustling.
Are you?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Are you really?
cameron hanes
Let me show you some videos, bro.
joe rogan
Here's my friend that gets up at 3 in the morning and runs a marathon before work.
cameron hanes
Well, every place I've went this year, it's like to a crowd where I haven't been around, they've talked about Truett doing pull-ups.
joe rogan
Your son!
cameron hanes
It's hilarious.
They'll be like, so now, did he do chin-ups too and pull-ups and switch around?
I'm like, nope, just pull-ups.
So, push-ups?
Nope, just...
Just pull-ups.
Pull-ups are so hard.
joe rogan
And how many pull-ups did he do?
cameron hanes
He did 4,100.
joe rogan
In 24 hours.
cameron hanes
Yeah, 17 hours, like 35 minutes.
joe rogan
4,100 pull-ups.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
That's a lot of pull-ups.
But his motivating factor was Goggins.
I mean, it was all about Goggins.
Goggins' previous world record was 4,032.
And so I just told him, I said, well, you know, we look up to Goggins.
Goggins is like a god to us, you know?
I mean, he's such a badass and just knowing him is an honor.
But I said, well, if that's the goal to beat Goggins, you also have to beat his time.
Otherwise, what's the point?
He was able to do that and it was all about just trying to live up to the example Goggins said.
He got it done, but a lot of people bring that up.
joe rogan
The Goggins pull-up, like what Goggins' record was for pull-ups, how did he calculate it out?
Did he say if I do five every X amount of seconds?
cameron hanes
Five a minute.
joe rogan
Five a minute.
You do five a minute, there's 60 minutes in an hour.
cameron hanes
There's X amount.
joe rogan
So he calculated it all out and he said, as long as I can keep that pace, I can do this.
cameron hanes
That's what Truett was doing.
He wanted to do five a minute.
Yeah, so then he fell behind a little bit and I was having him get back up on, because I showed up when he was about, Maybe 2,000 in, I flew in, and he was doing pretty good, but he started to fall behind, so then I was getting him back up on that bar, and I'd look at the clock and say, you got to get back up there now.
Let's go.
joe rogan
Did you play him the scene where Adrian tells Rocky, and Rocky, just win?
cameron hanes
The one that Goggins likes is round 14, I think, and when Apollo had Rocky hurt, and And then Rocky gets up and Apollo had his hands up and then he looks back and Rocky's up and Apollo just shakes his head.
And he's like, I can't, this fucker won't quit.
So that's what Goggins, he replayed that over and over.
joe rogan
That's amazing.
cameron hanes
Yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Isn't that funny?
cameron hanes
But anyway, Goggins is like, he's so powerful to so many people, including my son.
So, I mean, it's...
joe rogan
Well, I gotta say, you raised two savage sons.
You did a pretty fucking good job.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
You really did.
cameron hanes
Thank you.
joe rogan
You have two amazing sons.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Tanner right now is a...
joe rogan
He's a stud.
Last time I saw him, I was like, look at you, man.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
I remember when you were young.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I know.
joe rogan
Just a few years ago, he was a boy.
Now he's this big, savage man.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's a...
joe rogan
And he's a ranger.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
He's in the army and...
joe rogan
He's a beast.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I mean, I feel...
joe rogan
No, Tanner and Truett, you should be very proud.
You did an amazing job.
And it's your example that you've set.
And that's a powerful thing.
It's not just powerful because you set that example, but you also set an example to them and they will set examples to other people and it's a butterfly effect and it'll pass on.
There's a thing that you're doing that when putting out the kind of work that you do and the consistency that you do, people know that they can always come to your Instagram page and they're going to get this consistent message and consistent work ethic.
That's very, it's fuel for people.
And it's wind.
It's like wind on the sail.
It pushes people.
And you probably have no idea how many countless people you've inspired by doing that.
cameron hanes
Thank you, yeah.
joe rogan
It's pretty amazing.
cameron hanes
Yeah, I mean, I feel lucky just to have the life that I have.
I mean, it's, you know...
I don't know.
I never would have envisioned this coming from where I came from.
joe rogan
Do you also feel motivated because so many people are watching?
Because so many people look up to you now?
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I mean, I'm going to do what I do.
You can't fake it for this long.
I'm going to do what I do.
But I also know that I've got to hold myself accountable because people are paying attention.
And I want to help them.
I want to be, like you said, that wind in their sail.
And so I owe it to...
Well, I always...
I think for the most part I feel like I owe it to Roy to give the best I have every day.
I think about him often.
joe rogan
Some people don't know who Roy is.
cameron hanes
Yeah, Roy is my hunting partner who got me started in bow hunting back in 1988 and he died sheep hunting in 2015 and he fell.
Fell off the side of a mountain.
Yeah, I think about how He lived his life and how tough he was and what he meant to me.
So I want to honor him.
I want to honor his memory.
And like I always say when I talk about Roy, his legends never die.
And I don't want his legend to die.
Um, to me, you know, it's, and I've talked about this before, but even I've had a lot of hunting success and it just feels it's, it's not quite the same because Roy's not here because I'm not able to share it with him.
And that was our, we'd call and update it.
If we weren't hunting together, which we had two amazing hunts his last, last year.
Right before he fell.
And it's just different.
It's not the same.
And so I do it for him.
I do it for my life.
I feel like I got to give the best I have.
And I do it to hopefully be the wind in people's sail.
Yeah, I mean...
joe rogan
We're all connected in this weird way, right?
That's what's interesting about social media.
There's a lot of negative aspects of social media, but there's some positive aspects too that are undeniable.
And one of them is that we all do inspire and motivate each other.
And whether people...
Inspire and motivate you because they look up to you or because they follow you because they're interested in what you do or because you look up to them and you see them and you see how hard they're working and it makes you want to get after it.
We imitate our atmosphere.
And if you are following good, positive people, good, supportive, positive people that are out there really putting in work, it makes you want to be one of those people.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
I think so.
I mean, that's how it works on me.
I do, I tell, you know, we have a mutual friend, Aaron Snyder.
I do tell him I miss the days a little bit where he used to talk shit about me because he used to.
joe rogan
Because it motivates you.
cameron hanes
Yeah, because I'm like, I told him, I texted him, I'm like, God, I miss the days where he used to talk shit.
I said, I need that.
I need the old Aaron back.
unidentified
Now he's super supportive, you know, and he's like, Goggins tells me that.
joe rogan
He goes, I like shit talking.
He goes, I like the haters.
He goes, I think about them fucking haters when I get up in the morning.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
He goes, I need those motherfuckers.
cameron hanes
He says that.
I asked him specifically.
I asked Goggins specifically about that and about people who don't like him.
He's like, good.
He goes, I like it like that.
Fuck him.
joe rogan
Yeah.
cameron hanes
I mean, so you need...
It's weird.
It's a weird journey we're on where different things can motivate you at different times.
Yeah.
I do some weird way like reading hate sometimes.
I don't know why.
joe rogan
Well, sometimes you need an extra little bit of gas.
You need an extra little juice.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
And sometimes people want to prove people wrong.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Sometimes that's good.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's also knowing that they're just bitches.
That you're not.
You know, there's something about knowing that there's weak bitches out there in the world.
Like, oh, look at you.
unidentified
I couldn't imagine.
joe rogan
Look at you, cutie.
cameron hanes
I couldn't imagine being one of those guys.
joe rogan
I could.
I could.
I could if everything went totally wrong.
If you just make bad decisions, you go on bad paths, you got bad friends, you get a bad job, you get a bad girlfriend or a bad wife, a bad life, and bad habits.
cameron hanes
It could easily happen.
joe rogan
Drugs and alcohol and stealing and lying and next you know you hate yourself and you're 35 and you don't know why you just like wish you were someone different and special and you see some guy out there just kicking ass yeah fuck him fuck you loser he's faking it he's doing this like I've heard people say all kinds of crazy shit there's this one dude that I follow he's a martial arts guy people always accusing him of speeding up his videos oh You know, because he's so fast.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's people like that, man.
They just don't want to believe that you...
And then there's other people that go, God damn, that guy's fast.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I want to work out harder.
cameron hanes
Right.
joe rogan
You know, it's all in who you are, you know?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
And where you are in life.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Find this guy on Instagram, Erickson Samuel.
He's on Instagram and he's got these crazy videos of him doing kicks.
See if you can find it.
cameron hanes
And just kick after kick after kick and it's super fast.
joe rogan
Oh my God, he's ridiculous.
Yeah, he's...
cameron hanes
So it's not sped up, right?
joe rogan
No, no, no, no, no.
cameron hanes
Haters are saying?
joe rogan
Yeah, they're just haters.
Yeah.
E-R-I-C... Okay.
There's a bunch of really good ones.
If you look at the grid, go to the second down on the left-hand side.
Yeah, watch this.
Oh, this is just him doing a jump spinning kick.
But there's some other ones, like the middle one in the top row.
Go to the middle one in the top row.
That one there.
No, it's not.
Watch how fast this motherfucker is.
So he does a lot of these.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's just really talented, really skillful, but he had to do a video addressing people that say that he's speeding up his videos.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
But that's how it always is.
These aren't the best videos.
He's got some other ones in there that are better.
cameron hanes
Is he good?
joe rogan
Yeah, he's good.
Does he compete?
He's definitely fought MMA. I don't know what his records are.
I just like watching his videos.
cameron hanes
I had somebody yesterday say they were gonna kill me and skin me like I do the animals.
joe rogan
Interesting.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
What a sweet person.
They must be a compassionate vegan.
unidentified
Yeah.
cameron hanes
So that's always fun.
joe rogan
Yeah, I wonder what they would say if they met you.
People, they get these ideas in their head that a person who hunts or a person who is a meat-eater is causing all this terrible harm to the world and that they are a good person and that this person is bad and they're going to threaten that person and that somehow or another that's going to make it all better.
Or that they're showing you that, you know, they're there to stand up for the animals.
And there's a lot of, like, mentally ill people, too.
There's a lot of that.
There's also a lot of people that, they don't understand the harm they're doing.
They don't understand the harm they're doing just by buying vegetables that grow in a monocrop situation.
You know how much shit gets poisoned?
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
How many animals get ground up when they're using the combines?
Do you know what kind of damage it does to just an ecosystem when you run a monocrop operation like most of the food that you buy?
Human beings cause damage.
We cause damage.
cameron hanes
If you're living, you're causing death.
joe rogan
And you gotta think, like, you personally are causing a small amount of damage.
Like, you personally, for the food that you eat, are causing a small amount of damage.
But if you stop and think about LA, like 20 million people, and all the corn, and all the soybeans, and all the Almonds you need for 20 million people.
That adds up.
And it adds up to devastation.
It's crazy on wildlife and wildlife displacement and just how unnatural it is to have massive fields of any one particular crop.
And all the animals that want to eat that stuff that get wiped out and killed and poisoned bugs and poisoned worms.
All these different things that wind up getting wiped out.
cameron hanes
So much death.
So much death.
And then because I kill a bull elk.
Yeah.
And honor every ounce of that meat like it was gold.
And that's what I would say.
Americans throw away 40% of their food.
Did you know that?
joe rogan
Yeah, I've heard of that.
cameron hanes
40%.
So part of that's going to be meat.
So as a hunter...
Every ounce of meat is, I always say, considered like gold.
And then you got people judging you that are, you know, have a double bacon cheeseburger and they're like, oh God, I'm stuffed.
I can't eat another bite.
Take this away.
It's like, what are you doing?
You paid for the death of that cow and you're so stuffed.
You're such a glutton that you're pushing it away and throwing it in the garbage, but yet you're judging me?
joe rogan
Well, people just love to judge people because it's better than looking at themselves.
The thing about judging and attacking people online, it's a fun sport for people that don't have other hobbies.
cameron hanes
I guess so.
I guess if people could have a purpose, I just don't think people feel like they have a real purpose in life.
So that's where, as you know, Bowhunting has given me a purpose.
It's like, oh, this is what I do.
So everything revolves around what I do.
And so I know people don't feel like they have a purpose.
It'd be nice.
I think we'd be a lot happier society if people felt like they were here for a reason and had a purpose.
joe rogan
Yeah, and you know, there's no shortcuts in terms of your growth as a person.
And when you do have a purpose and you're pursuing that purpose and you realize each step along the way, whether you're improving or whether you need to improve and you've got a task in front of you and you have this direction and you have this goal in life, this focus.
It gives you real live feedback on how good you're doing, where you need to improve, how you're growing, where you're failing.
And some people never get that.
They don't have that.
They just show up.
They do the least amount that they can do to not get fired.
And they go home and then they just sit around.
And they watch things happen on television.
And they talk shit.
That is, sadly, a lot of people's...
And this is their existence, and this is this unfulfilled life.
This is this unfulfilled time here, and it's a miserable time because the more you seek this comfort, the more you seek this laziness and this sloth and just laying around doing nothing, the more depressed you're going to be because you're not going to get that good feedback.
You're not going to get that growth.
You're not going to get that feeling of accomplishment.
You're not going to get any of the things that make life exciting.
One of the reasons why people go, why do you get happy when you shoot an elk?
Like the video that you and me from last year, from my last year's hunt.
I'm like, if you ever knew how hard that is to do, you would know.
You shoot an animal that's 67 yards away, and you have to make sure that you hit it right.
If you don't hit it right, you're wounding it.
And it's also so difficult just to keep your nerves together.
cameron hanes
So many hard aspects to doing that.
joe rogan
And hundreds and hundreds of hours of practice have to be in place.
You can't be learning that day and doing that.
That shit has to be dialed in.
cameron hanes
But out of context, for some people, they're like, whoa, what's going on?
These guys are laughing.
joe rogan
Exactly.
Out of context.
Why are you happy?
You're happy because it is an incredibly difficult thing to do and there's a massive amount of relief.
When you see that arrow, boom, go right into the pump station.
You're like, ugh.
We did it.
We did it.
All the practice paid off.
And then it's just about respecting the animal and finding the animal and taking it apart and then eating it.
And when you're eating that animal, you're thinking, when you're serving it to your family and your friends, you're thinking about that moment.
You're thinking about the hard work that it took to make that happen.
And it's all the more enjoyable.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
And there is a switch.
There's a switch from...
It's almost like relief and happiness a little bit that you performed as you have practiced for, you said, hours and hours, hundreds of hours.
And then that arrow went right where it's supposed to, and you know that that's going to result in a humane death for the animal.
So then you switch because we went from that...
Feeling good, smiling, to then the death of the animal as we walked up.
And it's a complete night and day difference.
Then that's where the respect came in.
And you're like, here's this dead animal.
And then you're not smiling.
And for people who haven't been involved and don't know what it's like to take the life of something.
I mean, everybody takes a life of something to live, as we just talked about.
But when you haven't done it firsthand, that can be hard to understand.
joe rogan
Yeah, and I think our relationship with animals and food is skewed in this country because people are so aware of the horrors of factory farming.
You think about that, and a lot of people, they equate that with eating meat.
And it's a really torturous and sick reality that that is how a lot of the food in this country, that's how it's made.
That's how it's grown.
That's how it's harvested.
Yeah.
The difference between factory farming and hunting elk in the mountains could not be further apart.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Couldn't be further apart.
cameron hanes
No, it couldn't.
joe rogan
You shoot one elk, you eat it for a year.
cameron hanes
It was...
I mean...
And the challenge, I think, especially what we do with the bow, the challenge is what makes it so rewarding.
To me, I remember my first hunt this year, just a couple weeks ago in Oregon, it was 100 degrees, 90 degrees, full moon, the worst hunting conditions.
You know, as people don't know, but a full moon means animals are out feeding because they can see at night.
That means they're not out during the day.
And then the heat keeps them suppressed, their activity suppressed.
The bulls weren't really rutting.
And my buddy who's a lineman, Kevin Akers, he's a lineman for PGE, hardworking guy, manual labor.
We just love elk hunting.
He comes down every year to hunt with me just because we enjoy the challenge and he loves elk hunting.
And we were on day five and I remember he goes, man, this is almost turning into flirting with a grind.
A little bit of a grind on this time.
And I was just like, no.
What?
I said, it's only day five, dude.
I said, I wish it was hotter.
I wish there was two moons.
And we were just...
Having, you know, just joking around.
He always has a good attitude too.
And it's just that challenge.
So then when you have overcome that and you say you wish it was hotter, we'd quote Jocko all the time.
And he says, yeah, I wish it was hotter.
He goes, that'd make the water source more valuable.
Good.
Good.
So anyway, when you have that mindset and you got to keep pushing and on that hunt, I was just covering mile after mile after mile looking for fresh sign because the elk weren't moving.
So I'd do, you know, 10, 13 miles a day just looking for a fresh track.
And finally, we saw Ron Hofsus, who has logged down there forever.
He saw a fresh rub.
A bull had torn up a tree and that was a bull had moved.
So we were like, okay, all right.
Now, We're on to something.
A bull had been here last night because it was just from...
The rub wasn't there the day before.
It was there then.
So I'm like, there's a bull in here.
We're going to...
I'll find his track.
We're going to find where they are.
And we went through and sure enough, that fifth evening of that hunt is when I got...
There was a bull up on the ridge bugling.
I mean, we were going through blackberries, and there was a bear about 10 feet away, and I had a bear tag too.
And I look at the bear, and it looked like a pretty good bear.
And I'm like, I know the bull was about 150 yards up the ridge, and there's a couple satellite bulls.
And I'm like, God, I could kill this bear.
As long as it doesn't deathmone really loud, I could go kill.
So I come to full draw on the bear, and...
And it like looks through the blackberries at 10 feet away and sees me and takes off.
So I didn't, I had to let up.
joe rogan
10 feet away?
cameron hanes
10 feet, yeah.
He was like from us to Jamie.
I mean, right in the black, right there, feeding.
Because he was in the middle of blackberries.
joe rogan
Now a bear that's eating nothing but blackberries are probably insanely delicious.
cameron hanes
Oh, it'd be so good.
It'd be so good.
And there's, so I, you know, I had a bear tag, a mountain lion tag, a deer tag, and an elk tag.
So I'm like...
I'm ready to make something happen.
Anyway, I was going to kill this bear, but he took off.
And so then I was focused back up on the bull and I get up there and the bull hadn't bugled in a while, but I saw there was a spike and a satellite bull on a cow.
And I take, I look up over the blackberries up on top of the ridge and I see his antlers.
And I was just like, Jesus, that's a big bull.
So I turned out to Kevin.
He was behind me.
I go giant bull.
He didn't really know what I said.
And I was just like, just stay here.
So I took off my boots and snuck up there and I was 55 yards from him.
And he was just laying there and I'm like, there's no way he's gonna, he's kind of facing quartering to me.
There's no way he's just gonna stay here with, this is a rut.
I mean, he's feeling that there's other bulls around here.
So I stayed there at 55 yards, ranged him a few times just to verify.
He ends up standing up and turning to face uphill.
I come back 55 hold perfect and hit him with a perfect arrow and he went 30 yards and was dead in seconds.
But so when you go from the point to all that was that whole challenge of not seeing anything sweating your ass off covering 13 miles a day looking for fresh sign when that cumulates in a giant seven by six bull falling in 30 yards it I mean there's relief happiness As you say, you've just achieved this goal that I don't even know.
It's so hard to explain how difficult it is, but that's what people see.
So they see that, and in context, you can't capture a week of hunting and sweating your ass off and being in the sun.
joe rogan
Also, you can't explain how many people fail at this.
There's a 10% success rate amongst good hunters.
cameron hanes
That's on any elk.
But you start talking about...
Big bulls, I mean, it's less than 1%, you know, of hunters.
joe rogan
Especially bow hunting.
cameron hanes
Bow hunting for big bulls.
And it's like, so that, it's hard not to feel happy, you know?
But it's not that you're happy with the death of the animal.
You're happy because you worked your ass off and you achieved a goal.
And that would be anybody.
That would be anybody.
Now, when you transition to you walk up and the animal's dead, then there's reverence.
And so there's that change.
And I think people do it just like you know now because now you've done it.
But you can't blame people who haven't done it for not knowing.
joe rogan
No, and it's so hard when you watch, if you ever watch a hunting television show, most of them, I mean, there's a few that do a good job of sort of explaining, capturing what it's like, but most of them don't.
There's a lot of flashy music and, you know, the kill shot and everybody's celebrating.
cameron hanes
High fives and fist bumps.
joe rogan
People don't know.
You're seeing 22 minutes of something that probably took many, many days and a lot of struggle and so much training to get to that point where you could pull that off.
Both cardio, hill running, all the different things you have to do and then shooting the bow constantly.
With a rifle, you could pick up a rifle and not having shot for years.
As long as you understand the principles of shooting a gun correctly and getting a surprise shot...
If you're shooting off sticks, you could put that crosshair on an animal and pull, pull, pull, blam, and shoot the animal.
It can be done.
I would recommend you practice, but you can pull it off.
There's no fucking way you're going to be able to pull off a long shot with a bow if you don't practice.
You just can't do it.
cameron hanes
No.
And people who even practice every day fail.
joe rogan
Because it's nerves.
Nerves are crazy.
Nerves are a weird thing, man.
It's like it protects you because, like, it's an animal!
I gotta run!
Like you like the like when you're in a situation where you need that adrenaline because your body's got to get the fuck out of there and do Superhuman things yeah as fast as you can right then in a situation like elk hunting now you have to keep those nerves calm It's the weirdest thing for someone like especially I know I've like there's a few fighters that have gotten into bow hunting and fighters are used to just Right.
Bowhunting, you have to stay calm.
You have to keep your heart rate in check.
You have to be in the moment and just concentrate on the shot process.
And don't get caught up in it.
Don't let that anxiety get you.
That's hard.
That's hard for people.
There's so many little mental games going on.
cameron hanes
And there's also not knowing exactly when to hurry, when to slow down, what you can get away with.
You're reading the animal, you're reading their body language.
You don't know whether to close the gap between you and them quickly or it's time to be patient.
You don't know what the wind's going to do.
There's so many things.
That's why I always say, like, the better shape I'm in...
I can make better decisions on all those micro decisions.
And that's what leads ultimately to success.
It's not running 10 miles a day, but that plays into all better decisions a thousand times.
joe rogan
And there's some...
I mean, I think that any really difficult thing that you do in this life, it...
It elevates your ability to do difficult things.
It elevates your understanding of who you are as a person and where you stand right now in this moment.
And there's very few of those things that also sustain you with food.
And this is the crazy combination of what bow hunting is.
It's both a physical pursuit, a mental challenge, and sustenance.
It's all these things together.
cameron hanes
So powerful.
joe rogan
An amazing combination.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Changed my life.
It really did.
It's changed how I feel about food.
It's changed my relationship with meat.
cameron hanes
And that's why you offered to write the foreword of my book.
joe rogan
Yes.
I'm excited to do it.
I've already got ideas.
I'll tell you after I'm done.
I don't want to tell you anything.
I just want you to read it when it's done.
unidentified
Okay.
joe rogan
Let's get the fuck out of here.
We're going hunting next week, buddy.
unidentified
Let's do it.
joe rogan
I'm excited.
cameron hanes
I can't wait.
joe rogan
Utah.
cameron hanes
Yeah.
joe rogan
Here we go.
All right.
Goodbye, everybody.
Thank you.
Keep hammering.
And keep hammering, please.
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