The Joe Rogan Experience - Joe Rogan Experience #1414 - Mike Baker

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Jan. 18, 2020 - The Joe Rogan Experience

02:30:23

Joe Rogan Experience #1414 - Mike Baker

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joe rogan

52:49

mike baker

01:32:15

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jamie vernon

01:09

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Speaker	Time	Text
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hello, Mike Baker.
unidentified		Hello.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Good to see you, buddy.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Thank you very much.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Thanks for having me back on.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		My pleasure.
		So tell me, what's up?
		Are we in trouble?
		What's going on, man?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's World War III.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Haven't you heard?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is it?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No.
		No, it's not.
		No, I'm here to burst that bubble, I think.
		Not that anyone's going to say, okay, I'm writing this down.
		Mike said, no, World War III.
		But it was amazing how fast the, I'll put that closer there.
		It was amazing how fast the narrative came out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we barely smoked Sulaimani, and suddenly the current president's going to get us into this conflict.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I was nervous.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think everybody stepped back because it was such a shock to the system.
		I mean, when was the last time we dealt with Iran in this fashion?
		I mean, as opposed to like a harshly worded Dimarsh or a note or maybe an extra sanction here or there.
		But it was such a strange development that I think it did.
		And the natural reaction was to say, oh my God, here we go.
		And certainly everybody's exhausted from 19 years out there.
		But, you know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I was shocked that Trump could make that call because they had a bunch of different options.
		They're like, or we could kill him.
		He's like, let's kill him.
		I was like, whoa, I didn't know you could do that.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know what?
		He's been a target before.
		Sulaimani is, I mean, I guess I should first say where I stand on all this, which is I'm not mourning his passing, right?
		I mean, I think he deserved it.
		I think it's justice that should have been served up some time ago.
		He's responsible, not just for, as people have talked about, the hundreds of U.S. servicemen, but thousands and thousands of people.
		This guy was a completely bloodthirsty douchebag.
		I mean, there's no way about it.
		And we're talking about the second most, structure-wise, the second most important person within the Iranian regime, next to the Ayatollah.
		But the idea that somehow we took out a foreign leader, right, or a military general like he was some sort of Ikea, you know, Eisenhower, is insane.
		The guy was a mob boss.
		He was the head terrorist for a state that is the number one sponsor of terrorism around the world.
		But he's been on target lists for a long time.
		You go back to, I think, 2008, there was an operation to take out a guy named Mughnia, who himself was also a bloodthirsty psychopath.
		And he was running Hezbollah operations.
		So the Israelis had been tracking him, as had we.
		And at one point, they had an opportunity to take out Mughnia and also Suleimani.
		And they backed off at the time, essentially because the U.S. wouldn't get behind the idea that we're going to take out Suleimani.
		That was, you know, at that point, that was a step too far.
		So eventually we got Mughnia.
		But Suleimani is just, I mean, I don't even know where to start with the amount of blood that he's responsible for.
		People talk about, again, okay, he authorized operations and activities in Iraq against U.S. soldiers and against Iraqi soldiers and Iraqi civilians.
		But it goes back to the beginning of that.
		I mean, you could go back to 2003.
		And Suleimani was the architect.
		He dreamt up this idea as the U.S. was going into Iraq that he was going to, I mean, what he did was insane.
		He basically authorized, I mean, he's in charge, right?
		So he authorizes the release of a bunch of Sunnis that they've been holding on to.
		Iran being Shiite, arch rivals being the Sunnis, essentially.
		And the Saudis are their arch enemy, a Sunni nation.
		But he released all these Sunni extremists that Iran had been holding on to, essentially ever since we had gone into Afghanistan, right after 9-11.
		And he released them into Iraq, including a guy named Zarkawi, who became the head of al-Qaeda in Iraq.
		And within a few months of our getting out to Iraq, these Sunnis, basically under Sulaimani's tutelage, had a series of bombings and started bombing everything from Shiite mosques to UN facilities, a Jordanian embassy, a variety of targets, killing thousands of Shiites.
		Now, he's a Shiite, right?
		So this is how bad this guy is.
		He goes into Iraq with this plan that I'm going to push the Shiite in Iraq to Iran.
		I'm going to make them come to us for protection, for coverage, essentially.
		We can ride in there because what does he want?
		He wants to exert their influence within Iraq.
		He doesn't want a strong Iraq.
		He doesn't want the U.S. in there building a strong, stable Iraq.
		I mean, you go back to the Iran-Iraq war where Sulaimani started his military career.
		And, you know, he's not, there's no way, he's a true believer.
		There's no way he's ever going to let Iraq become stable again.
		And he's insane enough that he kills thousands of Shiite, his own people, right, in order to push the Shiite population in Iraq to Iran.
unidentified		I don't know if I'm middle-aged to be eloquent enough.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		False flag operations?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Who is he blaming the Iranian?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's not the Sunnis.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's the Sunnis who are doing it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's blaming the extremists.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but he's authorized and he's pushed them into Iraq to do this.
		And so he was always very unusually capable at walking a fine line between his own Shiite beliefs, population, everything, and at times being able to be sort of a puppet master for Sunni extremists when it suited his cause.
		And it's anyway, it's fascinating stuff.
		And whether it was dealing with Hezbollah or the Palestinian Islamic Jihad or whomever, he, again, I keep going back to the same thing.
		He deserved what he got, no doubt in my mind.
		And I'm just surprised it didn't happen sooner, maybe not from us, but from others.
		Back in October, the Iranians claimed they foiled an assassination attempt against Suleimani by Israel and some unnamed Arab agents.
		So it's not as if we just plucked his name out.
		He'd spent two decades engaged in death in mayhem.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Now, the take on him dying has not been like the take on Baghdadi.
		And Baghdadi, one of the most disturbing things that I saw was the Washington Post called him an Astur religious scholar.
		Did you see that?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When that guy died, they called him an astur religious scholar.
		And people that I talked to that understand who he was and what was going on there were fucking fuming.
		They were like, what is this?
		Who the fuck wrote this?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, you're talking about a goddamn terrorist, a real legitimate, murderous terrorist, and you're calling him an astur religious scholar.
unidentified		Right.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You're giving him this credibility.
		So I don't understand that either.
		I saw that, and I talked to a handful of people who kind of leaned in that direction.
		And also, you get the same thing with Sulaimani.
		Now, Suleimani, I can understand, he's wrapped in the cloak of a military uniform, and people saw him sitting next to the Aitolla, and they're like, oh, okay.
		But I look at it the same way.
		This is not assassinating a foreign leader.
		This is not assassinating a revered scholar.
		These are taking out terrorists, bloodthirsty terrorists who have a long track record of killing people.
		And it's not, he was not, you know, he was not choosy, right?
		With Suleimani, we're talking about, again, Iraqis, Yemenis, Syrians, his own people.
		They talk about maybe some 1,500 or so protesters being killed in Iran in the past few months as a result of the protests against the Iranian regime, primarily because of corruption, the fact that they've driven that economy into a toilet at the expense of the Iranian people, lack of rights of any sort.
		And Suleimani, again, as the head of the Quds force, and the number two person there, he's responsible.
		So I don't understand anybody who doesn't just say, yeah, and I think the left had a hard time with it.
		The hard left, you saw them spinning a little bit saying, okay, we don't say he shouldn't have gotten it.
		We don't say he didn't deserve it.
		But, and then they had to try to figure out some way to, because it's all got to be about politics now.
		So they have to bring it back to the current president, to Trump.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Whenever Trump does anything, even if what he does is fantastic, they can't get behind it.
		They almost have to go against things that are great.
		Like if the economy is great, they've got to find a reason why it's bad that the economy is great.
		And if his decisions lead to something positive, they can't accept it.
		It's unfortunate.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, we've lost our ability to, I think, to look at things just in an objective fashion, in any sense of the word objective.
		Or certainly we don't have civil conversations anymore, but the idea that we can look at and separate the politics from it.
		Look, again, I don't care whether people like Trump or not.
		I didn't vote for him.
		I don't necessarily care for the individual, but that doesn't mean I can't like policies.
		And whether you're talking about what's going on with Iran, whether you're talking about the way that we've been dealing with China lately, other issues, hey, I liked President Obama, didn't like his policies.
		I don't necessarily like Trump.
		I like his policies.
		I don't see any conflict there.
		Anyway.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't see any conflict there either.
		I mean, people are complicated.
		And I just didn't know that Trump could make the call.
		Like, he could be the guy that goes, take him out.
		I thought that was like there was probably a panel of military leaders and like really important people that understand the ramifications.
		Not a fucking game show host.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Like an American's Got Talent or something.
unidentified		There's four people sitting there in a buzzer.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I felt like it would be like something that they would discuss.
		Not that Trump would be like, yeah, option three.
		Fuck him.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, but they talk about it, and there is a great deal of conversation that goes on, not necessarily with the president.
		I have no idea how he processes his information.
		But there's a great deal of conversation and discussion that goes on in the Pentagon within the Intel community and National Security Council.
		What happens once they lay out these options in front of the president?
		I don't have a clue.
		But he does have that authority.
		He's got that ability.
		And President Obama had that authority.
		President Obama took out, remember, U.S. citizens who were overseas in the Middle East.
		And there was a hue and cry over sort of the legality of it, but you didn't see a lot of people saying, you know, in part, okay, I admit, because it wasn't, again, this, you know, Suleimani is wrapped in the cloak of his military uniform.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But also, people are very concerned about this possibility of us going to war with Iran, and they think that this might have started that off.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, I think what changed the calculus here is Iran is, you know, the regime is brutal and awful.
		They're not crazy.
		And the one thing they want more than anything else is to retain power.
		That's it.
		And I think they looked at the idea of a military conflict, a direct military conflict with the U.S. And this is not to say that their proxies won't strike out at us someplace around the world at some point.
		But the regime looked at that and thought, nah, you know what?
		We're not going to do this.
		In part because the killing of Suleimani is important on a much bigger level than just taking out a terrorist of his stature.
		It's important for deterrence purposes.
		And so, you know, again, I think they looked and felt like the calculus in dealing with the U.S. has shifted now.
		And they don't understand it.
		They're not comfortable with it.
		And also, they can't afford it.
		Look, if we got in the military conflict, there's the idea that somehow we were going to get in World War III.
		It would be over in an evening.
		Literally, it would be over in one night.
		We have the ability to take out their entire energy infrastructure, their missile bases, their key military facilities.
		And I don't want to oversimplify this, but after that first night's activity, that's it.
		They're done.
		So the idea that somehow there's going to be.
		Now, does that mean that we should do that?
		Of course not.
		Nobody wants a military conflict.
		But, you know, and again, there would be knock-on repercussions, et cetera, et cetera.
		So hopefully we can sort this thing out through now that we're doing the military deterrence and they understand that we're serious.
		We've got the economic pressures, we've got diplomatic pressure, primarily to keep them isolated.
		I think we're on the right track with Iran.
		I think we're going to see a different reaction from them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was a little bit relieved when they attacked back and just sort of like launched missiles on the outside of bases.
		Nobody died.
		I was like, okay, so it seems like this is almost like they're making a signal like they're attacking, but they're not really doing anything.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think there was an optic to it.
		I think you're right, absolutely, that they felt like they had to do something.
		The Ayatollah's got a, I don't know whether you call it saving face or not, but, you know, and we had a warning.
		We had a warning ahead of time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And didn't they print in their paper, didn't they say that they killed a bunch of people?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		They did.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The missile attack?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, they claimed about 80 or so, I think.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Keep saying it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
		Just do whatever it takes.
		But look at the reaction that we've had.
		Of course, the Ukrainian commercial passenger jet went down.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that was them, right?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, that was definitely them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that they shot it down because they thought it was a U.S. military plane?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it was an look.
		It's not unprecedented.
		I mean, we shot down an Iranian passenger jet years and years ago, right?
		The Russians shot down.
		They still won't admit to it, but they shot down a passenger jet over Ukraine, what, just a handful of years ago, which they still won't admit to.
		It's human error, and it's human error in a conflict zone, in a situation where there's a lot of moving parts, and it's never going to be a zero-risk game.
		So if the Iranians had done this, as tragic as it is, and come out and said, oh, my God, we did this, okay.
		It would have been horrific, but they did this to themselves because they just couldn't bring themselves to be truthful.
		They've got a long track record of not.
		And so they engaged in this and shot it down.
		When you find missile debris in a field where you're doing an investigation of a plane crash, that's pretty good indication.
		And then there's the video on top of that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there is a video of the missile hitting the plane?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, two missiles.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Jesus Christ.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		30 seconds apart, roughly 30 seconds apart.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It took two missiles to bring down a plane?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it hit the first one.
		The first one hit.
		And then about 30 seconds later, not quite 30 seconds later, a second missile hits.
		There's another fireball.
		And the plane stays up in the air for a period of time just because it's not devastated.
		But it was some 20 miles from the airport.
		It had actually kind of made as if it was turning back to the airport probably right after that first missile hit.
		But here's the thing.
		I mean, that's a tragic disaster right there, right?
		But the idea that nobody's actually saying they did it on purpose.
		They didn't do it on purpose.
		It was an accident.
		They mistook it for either an incoming missile or a hostile aircraft coming in for a bombing run after they launched their ballistic missile strike.
		So nobody's saying it was done on purpose.
		But it's, again, it's indicative of the Revolutionary Guard force and the regime itself that they spent several days denying it and saying it was mechanical failure and pressuring the Ukrainians to come out and say it was mechanical failure, which they then reversed course on that once it became obvious.
		Yeah, so it's a tragic situation.
		But now the protests out in the streets of Iran, which are a continuation of the past several months, which were targeted at a corrupt regime, have picked up strength in light of that because the people are just tired of this.
		And who knows where it's going to go?
		I suspect, unfortunately, I'm fairly cynical about all this.
		We've been hoping the Iranian population would kind of rise up for decades.
		And it doesn't happen because it's a pretty brutal regime.
		We don't understand that.
		We don't understand how difficult they are, right?
		And how serious-minded they are about holding on to power.
		So every now and then we think, okay, here come the protests.
		I'm just going to topple the regime.
		And it doesn't happen.
		So maybe it's different this time.
		I don't think so.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Now, were you concerned at all?
		And this is one of the things when you say that we could go in there and level them in a day, the real issue is their allies, right?
		The real issue is China and Russia.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but they're not going to do anything.
		China and Russia aren't going to do anything.
		It's not in their best interest.
		And if they're consistent about one thing, both those countries, it's that they act in their own best interest.
		And they would look at that and go, yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.
		I mean, look, so what are we dealing with in that immediate area?
		Iran's closest ally is Syria, right?
		Suleimani spent billions of Iranian dollars or money that they couldn't afford to and that should have been spent on its population, arming, training, equipping, and dealing with the Syrian war and keeping his pal Assad in power.
		So Iran and Syria are tied together, but is Syria in a position to somehow rise up and engage?
		This is not going to be, this wouldn't have been a conflict as we imagine it, right?
		It wouldn't be a conflict of occupying space and ground and all the rest of it.
		Nobody wants it.
		Nobody needs it.
		It's not good for anybody.
		I'm not saying that.
		I'm just saying that in the scheme of things, we would have overwhelming superiority.
		And yeah, I can't imagine a scenario where Russia would come in.
		And in fact, we would probably, as anybody would, we would say, okay, look, the Russian military is in Syria.
		We're going to liaise where they're going to advise you, you know, shit's coming down.
		And because the last thing we want to do is drag them into it by hitting some of their facilities or personnel or whatever.
		So there would be that level of coordination, which there always is no matter who the parties are.
		There's always some element of coordination.
		But anyway, yeah, I don't see that happening.
		I think we've averted that.
		I hope we've averted sort of further military conflict.
		I think, again, I think the Iranian regime understands that it's a new day, perhaps, that they'll come to the table eventually.
		That's what this whole maximum pressure campaign is about, is to, again, create sufficient economic pressure, ensure that they understand the idea of deterrence, which I think they do after this strike on Suleimani.
		And that goes back a ways.
		This wasn't just like something that just they thought of after an American contractor was killed.
		The Iranian regime had been ratcheting up their aggressiveness and their attacks and their various operations out in that region for quite a while.
		And we had been talking to them about it or getting the signal to them that you've got to stop this.
		And back in December, they were told, look, if you continue this path, we are going to take serious action.
		And we did.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How difficult is it to get intelligence on what they're up to and what they're planning, what they're responsible for?
		Like when you're here in America, I mean, how do we do it?
		Like, who's over there?
		Like, how do they do that?
		How do they find out exactly what these guys are up to?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, a lot of it's old school human intelligence, right?
		So through sources.
		And a lot of that sourcing comes from our allies.
		So whether it's the Israelis or the Jordanians or the Saudis or whomever, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So they know someone who's on the inside or like how does it work?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		They've got a source.
		They've got some recruited asset.
		You know, Iran's always been a tough target for us, just like North Korea is a tough target.
		And so we rely heavily on our liaison partners.
		But oftentimes, no matter how good your signals intelligence is, no matter how good you are at gathering SIGINT or photo interpretation of overhead imagery, it's still, to this day, no matter how good technology gets, you can't beat having an asset, having a human who's sitting in a meeting somewhere.
		And then for whatever their motivation is, whatever their reason for doing it, they're cooperating with you or our liaison partners.
		And they're saying, well, here's what happened.
		Or here's how that person looked.
		I mean, maybe you get signals intelligence because you're picking up communications.
		And then what do you got?
		You've got something on a piece of paper and you're reading a transcript of a meeting.
		But if you've got somebody who's in that meeting and who can tell you what people looked like or what the actual atmosphere was or the mood or the way that, I mean, that's invaluable.
		And so we rely a great deal on that.
		But you basically, you hoover up everything you can from all the various different types of intelligence capabilities.
		But it's a tough target.
		I mean, there's no doubt about it.
		I mean, that's why this whole nuclear weapons program with Iran has always been so difficult.
		And you talk to people and they go, well, they've got about a 12-month breakout time before they'd have a nuclear weapon.
		And then other people say, well, I think they've got about a three-month breakout time.
		Well, when you're talking about how long it's going to take them to have a nuclear weapon, you'd like to get those parameters a little closer together so that you're not having a complete guess.
		But it's tough.
		And we spend a lot of time working on that.
		But I would say that we have tremendous allies in that region.
		And I know that people, it's fashionable nowadays to say, well, the Trump administration, we've been pushing away our allies and they don't want to work with us.
		And you know what?
		They do.
		And in part because, again, it's the same old story.
		It's in their best interest.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is there any benefit to having someone like Trump who's very difficult to read?
		Because he's what he's the kind of guy like when Baghdadi was killed, he said he died like a dog.
		He says crazy shit.
		And he talks about, like, with Iran, that they might respond back with disproportionate results or with a disproportionate response in comparison to the initial attack.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, or the cultural sites.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The 52 cultural sites.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But that was so crazy, like to represent the 52 people that were kidnapped in the fucking Carter administration.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What?
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I mean, we don't really need to go with the symbolism, fellas.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		We could just pick some targets, but let's not pick the cultural sites.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that seems ridiculous.
		Why would you do that?
		Those are historic.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, you know what?
		That's where I say, look, I understand why people go, oh, my God, you know.
		But at the same time, that doesn't mean you can't like, you know, policies that are in place.
		So I always put that out there.
		I always say, yeah, I get it.
		That's ridiculous, right?
		And it's a self-inflicted wound, and you could argue that most of the problems they deal with out of this White House are self-inflicted wounds because there's a lack of discipline.
		And so it'd be nice if the president was more buttoned up.
		Of course, that's not going to be the way it works.
		He, I think, what do I know, but he firmly believes, I think, that this is why he got elected.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it is why he got elected.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think a lot of why he got elected is because he's wild and people like it.
		They like it.
		They're like something different.
		They're tired of these people that sound like politicians.
		You know, you hear, you know, pick a person, Elizabeth Warren, you hear them talk, and you feel the bullshit coming out of their mouth while they're talking.
		You know that they're playing a role.
		You know that with Trump, he might be arrogant.
		He might be crazy.
		He might be ridiculous.
		But that's him.
		That's that guy.
		I bet if you're around him all day long, he's like that.
		I mean, that's the thing that people, one of the things that people like about him, he's like that all the time.
		That's who he is.
		He doesn't need to bullshit.
		He's Donald Trump.
		He's a fucking multi-billionaire who is now the president of the United States.
		So it's like he doesn't feel the need to put on an act for anybody.
		So when he comes out and says he died like a dog, like that's that's how he would talk.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		No, I think the consistency, I think you're right.
		There is an element of, look, I am tired of the bullshit.
		I mean, I see what you're saying, but I guess what I think then is, what are the chances that you get to 20, well, we're in 2020.
		Look at that.
		But we get down to November to the election, and people are just exhausted by it, right?
		So they wanted something different.
		Now they've had it.
		Are they going to get to this point in November and get ready to vote and think, I can't take another four years of it, even though it's entertaining.
		I'm exhausted.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		People don't like change.
		They get scared of change.
		And if things are going well economically, and if it turns out that this thing with Iran doesn't turn into anything disastrous by the time November rolls around, I think he's going to win in a landslide.
		I don't see, unless Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard get together and then everybody goes, you know what, that would work.
		Like this is a real combination of people that I could get behind.
		Unless it's something like that, where there's like some overwhelming candidate.
		But I don't see that.
		And they seem to be pushing for Elizabeth Warren.
		I don't see that.
		She was a Republican most of her career and she became a Democrat when she was in her late 40s.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I find maybe it's just me, but I don't see a consistent policy message there.
		I don't see that happening for her this go-around.
		Maybe it'll change.
		Maybe you need, I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The problem is I feel like these people just want to be president.
		I feel like it's a self-aggrandizement thing.
		They just want to be president.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I think you could argue with that about anybody in politics.
		So you could say that, I mean, you've met that person, right, who's in politics now who started out by being a head of the Republican or Democratic club in high school.
		That's all they want to do.
		Then they're a state senator.
		And then they say, oh, am I going to run for Congress?
		And you think, what the fuck?
		I mean, it's got to be something.
		The wiring's off a little bit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, for sure.
		That's the problem, right?
		Anybody that wants to be president, you wouldn't want to be president.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, I think if you look at who they've got on the other side, right?
		I mean, I thought for a while I thought, well, maybe the Republicans are going to primary Trump.
		And then I realized that's a crazy ass idea.
		No one's ever going to do that.
		No one's going to get in there and stir it up with him for a primary.
unidentified		Who?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's no one that stands out.
		Like, you would need someone that already stands out.
		I mean, here we are in January.
		You would need someone that already stands out.
		We're talking about doing something 10 months from now.
		You need someone that's already in the public eye.
		You can't just jump to the head of the line like that.
		Especially from the Republican side.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Say he wins again in 2020.
		He's got four years.
		I'll tell you one person I would love to see jump in.
		I don't think she'd ever do it, but it would be Condoleezza Rice.
		And just super smart, good person, terrific.
		I don't know.
		But again, I don't think that's going to happen.
		I don't know that we've...
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you think she would run for president?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I would like to think so.
		I doubt it.
		She hasn't shown any interest in it.
		I think she's enjoying private life too much.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Oh, the shit.
		She's too smart to run.
		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Iraq Warren.
		She's probably like, can't take that.
		Stick it up your ass.
		I'm going to hang out in my ranch or whatever the fuck she's got.
		Don't they all have ranches?
		I always figure the old man.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Anybody who comes out of the Republican administration has got to have a ranch.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You get a ranch somewhere and you lay low.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like Cheney, he's got a ranch.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		He's got, he definitely got a ranch.
unidentified		I don't know.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's a ranch guy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bush has got a ranch.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		He'd be better aimed, but he's got a ranch.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Better aim, man.
		Well, I think he was a little drunk at the time.
		That was one of my favorite times.
		He shot his friend in the face and his friend apologized.
		That's how gangster Dick Cheney is.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I'm sorry.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I got my face in the way, sir.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I shouldn't have started.
unidentified		I'm sorry, I look like a quail, sir.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I got my oldest boy for Christmas, 12 years old, a great, great, great kid scooter.
		I got him an Airsoft, a Glock replica.
		And I didn't know much about Airsoft, right?
		I mean, who does?
		I mean, I've got a walk-in safe full of weapons, but none of them are airsoft weapons.
		But he really wanted one.
		His buddies have them, and they go out shooting, and they do the old school thing, right?
		They put on a couple of layers of clothes and some eye protection, and they go shoot each other.
		So how could I say no?
		So we go to the store to this combat supply shop that specializes in airsoft.
		And I was really impressed.
		I mean, the machining on these things is fantastic, right?
		First of all.
		And I was expecting some, you know, the old school pellet guns and BB guns, the Crossmans, things like that, you know, that are plastic for the most part and everything.
		But this is a solid piece of work.
		And anyway, so get on this thing.
		It's turned out, I don't know where I was going with the story.
		Oh, shooting and the shot.
		He's actually, I suspect he's a better shot than Cheney, as it turns out.
		And he's got his hunting certificate, and he's been through that education program.
		And, you know, he's in the scouts, and so we can go out shooting every now and then.
		But it took him almost no time at all, right, in terms of practice to develop.
		I'm boasting about my 12-year-old's target shooting ability.
		I realize that's not why most viewers tune in.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Sometimes they want to know.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe so.
		Anyway, so that's Jay.
		But yeah, I think you're right.
		Nobody's going to primary this president, and I think we're left with this field of potential candidates on the Dem side.
		And I tend to agree.
		I think it's going to be a landslide unless there's some if the market tanks for whatever reason because there's some international crisis somewhere and it sends things down through the floor, maybe.
		But if the economy stays the way it is and the Dems seem to wander into their primary season as unorganized as they seem to be, I could see him winning again big.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I think people want to look at him as being all bad.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But if what he's done and the moves that he's made are great for the economy and things appear to be very good, right?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, I think, again, you can't, but the problem is they can't separate that.
unidentified		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'm saying.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you can't find a progressive who's going to stop and go, well, you know, the economy is good.
		Or if they say it, it always followed by a, but, you know, it's not good for everybody.
		Well, it's never good for everybody.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's true, too.
		Yeah, it isn't.
		Yeah, I mean, they want the economy to be the way it is, but they want Bernie Sanders' economic policies.
		You know, it's interesting because I think that someone who supports big business the way Trump does, he encourages people to move business forward.
		I mean, it encourages the market, encourages people to spend money.
		It encourages people to take risks.
		The more he makes it easier for these big businesses, also the more people get outraged, but then the economy picks up.
		It's like, boy, there's a I don't know what the correct way to do this is, but even though I'm not a Trump fan, there are definite benefits to the way he has been running the country.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, well, when you talk about just sort of some of the basic metrics, you look at the unemployment rate, right?
		I mean, and I would just, I just finished a conversation the other day.
		I mean, Idaho, not to bring in Idaho, but Idaho's got the second strongest state economy in the nation, right?
		The unemployment rate is almost negligible.
		It's crazy how strong it is at this point.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because there's solid people up there.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Solid people.
		We all have ranches.
		So that's the other thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You all know how to fly fish.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's something to that, though.
		Solid people.
		I mean, Idaho is a fucking, there's real people up there.
		You go up there, it's fucking cold as shit.
		There's wolves and bears.
		Those are real goddamn people.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You've got to come back up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I will definitely come back up.
		I'll definitely come back up.
		I'll schedule something.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that would be great.
		But I think the point with the economy is that it does.
		And again, I get it.
		Not everybody's in the stock market.
		Of course, not everybody's in the stock market.
		But as it improves or tax cuts, the whole, it was only for the rich.
		You can't tell me that people haven't been benefiting from it.
		And yes, there's going to be segments that it takes longer or you've got to work harder or whatever it is to feel that improvement.
		But it's there.
		And again, I don't see unless there's something that sends it heading south.
		And I think the Democrats are in a difficult position.
		They can't talk it down.
		Michael Bloomberg's trying.
		He's not a Democrat.
		I don't know what he is.
		But he's not.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What is he?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		He was a very big.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was a billionaire Democrats.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Tom Steyer.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah?
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I keep wanting to say Steyer.
		I don't know why I keep saying Steyer.
		Because it makes me sound clever.
		But Tom Steyer, yeah.
		But I think that Bloomberg is trying to say, look, the economy needs to be adjusted, needs to be fixed.
		I don't think anybody buys it because there's no supporting data for that.
		And so they have a hard time battling against the economy, which is why I think they try to avoid it for the most part.
		I mean, that debate last night, did you watch that?
unidentified		No.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't watch them.
		And then push Tulsi Gabbard out.
		I stopped watching it.
		I'm like, you guys are out of your fucking mind.
		She's the most interesting candidate out there.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, next to Marion Williamson.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well, that bitch is crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Sorry for using that word.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Crazy?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
		I didn't mean it that way.
		I say it, you know, it's a term of endearment.
		But isn't she like a crystal healer or some shit?
		She was trying to come on the podcast, too.
		I was like, she's doing a tour.
		That's a boat with a lot of holes in it, and it ain't going to make it across the harbor.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's like talking to one of your aunts, right?
		One of your crazy aunts comes over for the holidays, you know.
		He said, what are you doing?
		Well, I made you a dream catcher.
		Thank you.
		Dream catcher.
		Dream catcher.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think Bernie Sanders has some interesting thoughts.
		And talking to him in person, in real life, I like him a lot.
		He's not like what he comes off in those goddamn debates because those debates are ridiculous.
		You get five people in front of the camera.
		You ask them a question.
		They have 30 seconds to answer it.
		Everybody else is jumping in, yelling things out.
		They're all trying to get a sound bite.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's all it is.
		It's not actually a debate.
		I mean, remember, you know, debate club.
		I mean, and it's not that.
		It's exactly what you said.
		It's soundbites, a series of soundbites.
		They're all looking to have a moment.
		They don't want to screw up, so they want to have a kind of a safe moment.
		And they go through.
		I agree with you.
		I like Bernie because he's been consistent.
		You can go back to the 80s.
		He's saying the same shit that he's saying now.
		And I think there is something to that.
		Now, I don't buy his arguments.
		But I like the guy, and I like the fact that he's consistent and he means what he says.
		And so, again, I can separate out liking him from liking his policies.
		I don't see a problem there, but I don't think they're going to let Bernie.
		There was a moment, I'll tell you about it last night on this debate thing where I think it was the CNN moderator.
		She asked Elizabeth Warren.
		Elizabeth Warren had come out the other day and said that she had a private conversation with Bernie.
		And during the conversation, yeah, Bernie said, you know, a woman's never going to win.
		That's my bernie.
		A woman's never going to win, can't win being president.
		He was more eloquent than that, but the voice sounded just like it.
		And so he's denied it.
		So the moderator last night during this debate asked Bernie Sanders, let me just be clear, she said, are you saying that you've never said this to Elizabeth Warren?
		And Bernie said, absolutely not.
		Very next words out of the moderator's mouth was she turned to Elizabeth Warren and said, So, Senator Warren, when Bernie said to you that he never or no, when Bernie said to you that a woman couldn't be president, how did you feel?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jesus Christ.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That was it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And so I think that they're not even trying now to hide the fact that they want to marginalize Sanders.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So why did they want to marginalize him?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Because I think they feel they can't.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		There's no way he can win.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is that what it is?
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I think on a national level, I think it definitely.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think Elizabeth Warren can win after lying about being Native American for her whole life.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a fucking big one to me.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, by the way, by the way, one of my boys was home sick the other day from school, the middle boy sluggo.
		And so we were sitting on the sofa.
		I said, well, you know, you're not feeling you want to watch a movie?
		Now, God bless him.
		He's 10 years old.
		He considers himself a baller.
		All he wants to do is play basketball.
		That's all he wants to do with his life.
		He knows he's going to get recruited by Duke.
		He knows he's going to end up in the NBA.
		But we're sitting there, and it was really kind of sweet because he's got all this hard side to him and I'm just playing ball.
		And then he says, well, yeah, let's watch a Disney movie.
		So we kind of dialed up Disney Plus because we're sheep and we bought the Disney Plus thing and Peter Pan, the original Peter Pan, right?
		The original Disney Peter Pan.
		So we turned it on.
		And I'd forgotten what that movie was like in terms of its treatment of Native Americans.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's horrible.
unidentified		Oh, my God.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So we're watching it.
		We get to that part where they're singing that song and the Lost Boys are tied up with Wendy and Michael and all that.
		And the chief comes in and he wants to find Tiger Lily, the princess, because Hook is – the viewers are like, what the hell is going on here?
		So anyway, I'm sitting there, and even Sluggo looks at me and he goes, Wow, this is kind of racist.
		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What a 10-year-old says that.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, a 10-year-old says it.
unidentified		I thought, well, okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Everything was racist.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Everything was racist.
		Well, that's what we had.
		We had a conversation.
		I said, yeah, you know what?
		Yeah, pretty much what I told him.
		But anyway.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, particularly about Native Americans.
		I mean, they just were able to get away with it.
		Nobody protested it.
		I'm reading this book now, or I'm listening to it on tape called Black Elk Speaks.
		It's about this Oglala Sioux medicine man who was, while he was still alive in the 1930s, they wrote this book.
		He told the story of Custer, and he was there.
		He was a young boy when Custer was killed, and he told the story of life on the plains and crazy horse.
		And it's fucking fascinating.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		When was it written?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's written in the 1930s.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Okay, it's called Black Elk Speaks.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Black Elk Speaks.
		Yeah.
		I've listened to on tape, this is like the fourth or fifth one that I've listened to on Native Americans over the last couple of months.
		But this is the best one.
		This is the best one because not that the other ones weren't great.
		They were great.
		But what's interesting about this is the actual words of a man who lived that life.
		It's not just a historical book about the time and describes the events of the time.
		This is a guy describing what he saw, and he was talking particularly about war, about the way it was when they killed Custer.
		And he was there when they killed Custer.
		And just the battles between the American soldiers and the Native Americans.
		It's like, it's crazy.
		It's crazy to think that it happened just a short time ago.
		And it's also crazy to think that if no one came to America, if the world just stayed in Europe and Asia and the way it had been before Columbus and before the Pilgrims and all that shit, these people would probably still be living like that because that's not that long ago.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, I mean, you think about it, what was it?
		It was a warring tribal culture.
		I mean, we all still have, I'm probably going to make a botch of this point, but yeah, warring tribal cultures in the Middle East, right?
		I mean, it's a difficult environment, right?
		In which to say, okay, we're going to have some sort of federal system.
		We're going to come together.
		We're going to work for the greater good.
		But I mean, I think it's, I will say this.
		The most depressing scenes I've ever seen have been on Native American Indian reservations in this country.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I've never been.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I've never been other than casinos.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's just you go and you, and look, I'd spent most of my adult life overseas, right, in some pretty grim places.
		And I remember the first time I was on a reservation here in the U.S. And I thought, how can this possibly be here?
		And I know that's a naive thought, and people think, well, how could you not know that it was here?
		But it's, you know, A, it's not a good history, but B, it's not a good follow-up either.
		I mean, right?
		We haven't, we just, to this day, we don't do a very good job at all.
		And the reservation systems, not all of them, of course, it's like every, you know, not every urban center is, you know, crime rate.
		I mean, that's ridiculous.
		But I'm just saying, in general, you know, some of the most difficult places I've ever seen have been right here in our borders, right?
		On Indian reservations.
		And good God.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I want to get someone to come in here who's a Native American, who's a historian, who really understands the history of their tribe, someone who can come in here and talk to me about it.
		Because I just had a sort of a peripheral understanding of it up until about five or six months ago.
		I really, you know, I had seen movies and I had read books and I had kind of understood, but I didn't really, really get into it until I started reading these books.
		And it's just incredible to think that there was millions and millions of tribes or millions and millions of members of different tribes living in this country, like basically like Stone Age people.
		Just 150 years ago.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And oftentimes, you know, in constant conflict with each other.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
		Oh, that's a big thing that I didn't really understand.
		The horrific things they did to each other, kidnapped each other, tortured each other.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And we came along and they're like, what the fuck?
		Come on, lighten up.
		I mean, geez.
		We brought them a whole new level.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, as soon as we figured out repeating guns, as soon as they figured out revolvers with more than one bullet, because they were fighting the Comanches originally, they were fighting them with muskets.
		And the Comanches could shoot like six arrows in 10 seconds.
		So they would just lighten these fucking soldiers up because they couldn't reload.
		So they'd wait for the initial volley and then they'd charge in.
		And they also could, they were such great horsemen, they could actually shoot underneath the horse's neck.
		So they would hold on to the reins somehow where they were under the horse's neck and they were protected and they were shooting at the soldiers.
		And they were shooting from horses.
		Nobody knew how to do that before.
		Everybody got off the horse to shoot.
		And they were shooting around.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I feel bad for the horse, but he's covering concealment.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's how the Comanches apparently dominated is that they had so many horses.
		They were rich in horses.
		They were the ones that figured out how to master the horse the best.
		They also used small horses.
		They didn't use like these big horses that the Americans used.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And they were small people.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Comanches were fairly small people.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		No, it is absolutely a fascinating history.
		I've spent more time reading sort of the military aspects of the Indian Wars from the U.S. military side of things.
		And occasionally a book will stray into sort of, okay, well, let's look from a perspective of whichever tribe they were in battle with, but not usually very good.
		So I'll pick up this book because it's an amazing history.
		And you're right.
		It's not that long ago.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's another great book.
		Well, there's quite a few of them, Blood and Thunder.
		It's about Kit Carson.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I read that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fuck, man.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That dude.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was a beast.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Get him on the show.
unidentified		My God.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he was tremendous, right?
		And from nothing, right?
		Came from nothing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And was a small guy, had a soft voice.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, there was a show, Men Who Made America, I think.
		Or it was a follow-on from that.
		But they had a handful of episodes about Kit Carson, but they kind of went through, they picked out some of the sort of the individuals you would imagine, right?
		I mean, Daniel Boone and some of the other characters as the frontier, I think, Men Who Built a Frontier, I think is what it was called, as a follow-on to that series that they did about the men who built America.
		Okay, which seems misogynistic.
		Women probably helped.
		Behind every great titan of industry, there was a woman and several of his mistresses.
		But I think that this thing about building the frontiers was interesting.
		They tried to provide a perspective from the Native American Indians' point of view.
		I don't think they necessarily did a very good job because I think they just had so much room to cover.
		But it was still worth watching.
		So it was a good series.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think most of us are pretty ignorant to what goes on on the reservations today, and me included.
		You know, you hear these horrible stories of alcoholism and poverty.
		And it's just they live in these nations inside of a nation.
		It's what's very strange.
		And the only thing that really, you know, is natural resources that can help them, but really gambling.
		Gambling becomes a big revenue source for a lot of them.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And then people are trying to game the system, no pun intended, but people are gaming the system and saying, oh, I'm going to create this non-existent tribe.
		You get that in Washington, D.C. is can't swing a dead cat without hitting some lobbyist who's trying to push for designation of some obscure element as a tribe, right?
		So that they can simply apply for a gaming license.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I'm not sure how you turn that around.
		There's the Native American Indian Museum in D.C. that opened several years back.
		It's very good.
		It's a little tough to follow.
		I will say this much in terms of just the way they've laid the museum out, right?
		But it's just absolutely full to the ceiling of incredible stories and artifacts and history bits.
		But it's definitely worth people going to D.C. If they're saying, okay, I'm going to go to the Smithsonians, they should put that one on the list because it's really fascinating.
		It's really good.
		Anyway.
		But what else?
		Oh, I know what I went to, I was going to bring up because I can't come on the show without talking about Huawei.
unidentified		Oh, so something going on with Huawei again?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Only on the periphery.
		Today, the Trump administration signed this first portion of a deal with China.
		And so it's a trade pact, right?
		There's been this trade battle, obviously.
		And I just thought I was flying out here and I was thinking about it.
		It's an interesting dynamic, right?
		Because people talk about this current administration as not having any strategy.
		And sometimes it does seem frankly that way.
		But I was thinking the other day that there is actually an interesting split in terms of how they're dealing with China.
		So on the one hand, we've got this softening of the trade war.
		As a result of signing what they signed today with China's sort of the first stage trade agreement, it mostly involves increased purchases by China of U.S. goods.
		There's some talk about them scaling back their theft of intellectual property.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Scaling back.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Scaling back.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a hilarious way.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		We're going to do it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We won't steal.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So much.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It's not going to stop stealing.
		But there's that element to it.
		But at the same time as they're doing this, and as a result of that, we're going to cut in half our tariffs on quite a bit of a large amount of goods.
		And I think we're going to drop the idea of imposing more tariffs on some other goods.
		But even while we're doing that, so that's happening.
		But as we're doing that, we're also ratcheting up pressure and some sanctions and some legislation against the technology side of things.
		So we're still coming down on Huawei.
		Congress is trying to push through something that's going to make it even more difficult for U.S. companies to do business with them overseas.
		But I think it's interesting, right?
		Because there's some people, I think, in Washington who go, well, we can't do both.
		Well, of course you can do both.
		You can talk to the Chinese in real terms and say, yeah, let's focus on the trade war.
		We're going to do this.
		We're going to make it a little bit easier.
		Let's create a trade environment where it's good for both of us.
		At the same time, you know what?
		You're still stealing our shit, and Huawei is still a national security threat.
		So we're still going to focus on this.
		And this is not saying I'm singing praises of this current administration.
		I'm just saying that any administration should be able to operate on different levels when it comes to the same.
		But we haven't seemed to do that.
		It's like with Iran.
		Well, okay, in the past, if they just gave some indication that they were going to play ball with us, we'd ease up on the sanctions, even though they hadn't done anything about their pursuit of terrorism and other things that they were doing.
		Because we felt like in Washington, I think sometimes D.C. is like, oh, you can't do two things at one time that seem to be conflicting.
		Well, the real world says I think that you can.
		So I think China gets it.
		Now, I don't think they're going to stop stealing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That seems to be how they operate.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Especially when you consider the fact that the government is so inexorably connected to Huawei.
		Like when you were explaining how big business and the government are hand in hand, they're not two separate entities.
		They work completely together.
		And so with Huawei, since they have been busted, having third-party access to data and stealing packets and stuff with routers, because they have done that, you've got to think, well, that's probably a part of the way they do business.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, it is.
		It's in their system.
		I mean, they made a decision decades ago, right?
		This is how we're going to achieve superiority in the world, right?
		We're going to get to the top of the food chain by skipping all the cost and pain of research and development.
		We're just going to hoover up everything we can from not just the U.S., but everybody.
		So, you know, part of all this pushback against China has been specifically trying to say, look, you got to stop that.
		We understand it.
		We're calling you out on it.
		Now, we've tried doing that a handful of times in the past in a half-hearted manner.
		This time, you know, I think the Chinese understand we're more serious about it.
		And we are trying to implement certain measures that will prevent some of that theft.
		But at the same time, I think, as you said, it's part of how they do business.
		So I think we have to be pragmatic in all of this and think, yeah, it's good that we're pushing them on it.
		It's good that we're telling them.
		It's good that we're trying to rebalance the trade environment, that we're calling out Huawei, that we're talking to our allies about not doing business with them because all they really want is they want an access point, right?
		So if they do business with the UK, suddenly in this seamless world of communications, now they've got an entry point into the U.S. So we're working to try to get our allies to stay on board with us about that.
		But yeah, the Chinese, they subsidize Huawei, and the government does in a big way.
		And we just have to be realistic.
		We're not going to change their behavior in a major way.
		They're just going to become more sophisticated or more obtuse about how they do it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, the best evidence to me that there's really something going on is that Google's even stepped in.
		Google's even saying, we won't even give you access to Google Store anymore.
		If you want to have a Huawei phone, even if you buy it from overseas, it will not work in the Google ecosystem.
		So what Huawei's done is they've started their own little weird app store and they've started creating their own apps.
		They're essentially frozen out of the ecosystem that Google provides and the Google Play Store provides.
		But you can sideload some apps by going to the website.
		You can download some of them and put them on a phone.
		But they're essentially relegated to these weird Chinese versions of a lot of the popular applications, and it's a very limited selection.
		And when it comes to high-end cell phones, like what is the new Huawei phone?
		I think it's called the Mate 30 Pro.
		They announced another one.
		This is the other thing.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Just now?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Right.
		Oh, Mike McCare, fuck him.
unidentified		They literally had announcements today in London.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		He said, son of a bitch.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Son of a bitch.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So their phones come out with new ones all the time.
		Like an iPhone, which is the top of the food chain in America, right?
		They come out once a year.
		Once a year, they bang out a new phone.
		Huawei's cranking these fucking bad boys out every couple of months.
		And every couple months, they have a giant leap in improvement.
		More megapixels, better night vision, more storage, more battery life, more this, more that, higher pixel density in the screens.
		So their phones literally are the top of the food chain phones.
		It's really kind of fascinating because a lot of American phones, like look at that bad boy.
		P40 design gets leaked showing triple like a camera.
		Yeah, so they're using like these fucking incredible cameras.
		Yeah, sort of.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So it's sort of similar to the iPhone.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Similar.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Interesting.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, we copy them a lot.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, that's true.
		I mean, that's a design element of it.
		But I think, I mean, look at Huawei.
		You know, here we've been banging on about them for some time.
		Congress has been trying to take actions.
		And at the end of this past year, end of what, 2019, Huawei reported some 20% increase in their revenues.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, of course.
		People are talking about them.
		Well, I know a lot of people that before this.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's what I'm actually doing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm actually, you know, I got a contract with Huawei, so that's why I keep banging on the Google thing really fucked them up because before that, a lot of the tech guys in America were buying them from Amazon or buying them from websites and then just putting their SIM cards in it and using it even though ATT won't sell them and Verizon won't sell them.
		But now that won't even work anymore because now you don't have access to the Google Play Store.
		If they could figure out a way to sweet talk their way back to the Google Play Store, they would be the biggest fucking cell phone company in the world.
		They offered a developer $26 million to build apps for his flagship phones after being banned from using Google's App Store.
		Yeah, but the thing is, like building the apps is not good enough.
		You have to have apps that everybody's using.
		If you make your own Instagram, nobody gives a fuck.
		You're not on Instagram.
		Are you on Instagram?
		It says there are major apps available through Huawei's app gallery, such as Amazon, Snapchat, TikTok, and Fortnite.
		But most popular apps are still missing.
		That's interesting.
		Amazon's like, fuck you.
		We want some money.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I made some money.
		Jeff Bezos going through a divorce.com.
		Get some money.
		I got a new hot check and she likes money.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Have you seen his new, is it his new wife now or just his girlfriend?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's just his girlfriend.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She used to be married to the former owner of the UFC, or the one of the, she used to be married to one of the current owners of the UFC.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		All right.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So she's like stepped up.
unidentified		Pace.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Stepped up.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The owner of the UFC is a very wealthy man, too.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Not Bezos wealthy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
		He's on next level wealthy.
		That's like if you get divorced, for sure you're getting a billion.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's got 150.
		He can give you a billion just to shut you up.
		Just like, just give her a billion.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Let's get this over with.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Let's get this over with Marty.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Let's sign the paperwork.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		But I can see he's a handsome man.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I can see him attracting a really hot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't think you're right.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I think you're being sarcastic.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at that face.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He looks like a guy in a movie.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		He looks a little like Paul Schaefer in that picture.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You remember the old David Letterman's old band leader?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at this.
		Yeah, you're right.
		He does.
		Yes, Dave.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jeff Bezos reportedly threw a star-studded birthday bash for his girlfriend, Lauren Sanchez.
		Look at her.
		She's like, shut-ching.
		She should have, someone should Photoshop dollar bills on her glasses.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		But you know, that's not a con, that's not a really good picture of her.
		She doesn't look, she's kind of, she's got a weird she's hot as fuck.
		Is she really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but she's, you know, she's hot as fuck and almost 50.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		50 50th birthday?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		She just had it?
		Okay.
		I wonder what he got.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Today at 50.
		You buy her whatever the fuck she wants.
		Jeff Bezos.
		Women today at 50, they keep it together.
		It's a different 50.
		When I was a kid, when the lady was 50, that was a dead lady.
		She's barely alive.
		But now, 50-year-olds, they're in the gym doing squats.
unidentified		They look hot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's just, it's different.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They exercise.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		People now imagine you like cruising gyms looking for girls doing squats.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, I'm just saying, I've seen 50-year-olds that are in very good shape.
		Like, who's that?
		What's that girl?
		Elizabeth Hurley.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, she's a fucking movie star.
		Her Instagram is all pictures of her and her underwear.
		You know why?
		Because she's like 53.
unidentified		Her underwear.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And she's 54?
		She's 54, and she knows the fucking sand is thin on that hourglass.
		There ain't a lot at the top.
		The top chamber, there ain't a lot left.
		So she's like, she's showing them goods.
		That Instagram is all her and her underwear.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That name, who was she with?
		She was with Hugh Grant.
		Hugh Grant, that's right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Dude, look how hot she is.
		54.
		Like, if you saw her, give me another one of those, Jamie.
		What do you got here?
		Give me another one of them bikini.
		There's a bunch of bikini pictures.
		That there.
		Like, if you saw her somewhere, you would go, oh, that's a 35-year-old, beautiful woman.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		54.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's different these days.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's a lot of.
		I will say this, though.
		There are a lot of filters out there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		I could look 12.
		But look at that one in the middle.
		That doesn't look filtered.
		The one that right now?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No, no, no.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That looks like a party.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That looks like her part.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She's hot.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		She definitely looks.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		She looks right like she just came off the set from Austin Powers.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, she's fucking hot, man.
		She's still hot.
		Like, legitimately hot.
		Like, people go, yeah, but she's 54.
		You'd go, shut the fuck up.
		What do you wrong with you, man?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at that one, the right with the boobs.
unidentified		Woo!
		Yeah.
		Take it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		But when was that taken, though?
unidentified		Last week.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Last week.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Shut your mouth.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Stop ruining my dreams.
unidentified		That was just on Monday.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Don't ruin dreams, Michael.
		You're right.
		She's hot as fuck.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She's putting in the work.
unidentified		Yeah.
unidentified		That middle picture, I'm not sure about the middle picture with the two soldiers there.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I'm not sure where they was that taken in Liechtenstein or something.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Where those soldiers come from?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What's up with their fake mustaches?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do they have painted on mustaches?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Do you think they've got a whole army of guys like that that come out on the battlefield dressed like that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		London Coliseum.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do they make them put rosy cheeks on?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No, those are natural.
		It comes like that.
		That's the British weather.
		Cold and damp.
		Gives you cheeks like that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How weird.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They have fake mustaches, though, right?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		For the ballets.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Not cracker.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, for the ballet.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		English national ballet.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A couple of Marines.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The ballet.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		A couple of commandos.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just make that picture bigger and cut those dummies out.
		She looks hot.
		And look at the one right next to it.
		Go to the one picture right next to that one, Jamie.
		That one.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Come on, son.
unidentified		Whoa.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She's hot as fuck.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She's hot as fuck.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's quite the piece of jewelry.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		She's just there.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's just amazing that women can do this now.
		Like, you didn't, you couldn't do it.
		Like, you couldn't do that before.
		It's like you hit a wall, and that's welcome to the wall.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		But you know, here's what I would say.
		They would argue.
		I think those same hot women would argue that for dudes, it's different.
		You can be a schlub at 54, right?
		You can just walk out there.
		You don't give a shit.
		You're just kind of like whatever.
		Yeah, like Jack Nicholson.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jack Nicholson's a thousand years old and he's still banging 20-year-olds.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I don't know how he does that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jack Nicholson.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Sidelines at a Lakers game, you think, oh my God.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I know.
		You know what it is?
		It's like most women find him repulsive, but you don't want most women.
		You want the women that don't find you repulsive.
		And when you're really, really famous, that's a considerable number.
		That's what's crazy.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, that's true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So, like, there's 300 million plus people in this country that's probably of dating age.
		Let's just say there's 70 million women that could be dating Jack Nicholson.
		Look at them there.
		Let's just, I mean, it's probably, I'm probably off, but let's say out of those.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So, 70 million that he could choose from.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, let's say it's 100 million.
		Let's get crazy.
		Let's say it's 100 million.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's quite the picture.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Out of those hundred.
		Look at that one.
		Let's leave that one up.
		That's my favorite.
		Leave that one up.
		Out of those 100 million, 90 million of them would think he's disgusting.
		90 million.
		So 90 million women would be like, what the fuck?
		Out of those 10 million, and those 10 million that are left, 5 million would be like, well, he's not that bad.
		And then 1 million would be like, I'd fuck him right now.
		And that's what you want.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I think 1 million.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		100 million people.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		1 million would fuck that right now?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, 1 million.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		They're all in Southern California.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, there's some from North Dakota.
		They just want to come to LA.
		Jack's going to make me famous.
		He blew up my Instagram.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I can see that.
		I can see getting in your Kia and driving across the country to fucking.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at his glasses.
		Man.
		Just look at everything about him.
		Cheeseburger, fries, doesn't give a fuck.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, there you go.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		There he's back in his heyday.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That was when he was young.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That dude, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He looked like shit back then.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Look at that collar.
		Look at that collar, though.
		That was back when a collar meant something.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It is amazing.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, he keeps on rocking in the free world.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No, you're no, yeah.
		But that's the thing.
		That's what women would say.
		How come we have to?
		I mean, you hear that all the time.
		How come, you know, society requires us to do a thousand squats a week.
		And, you know, this mook over here, he doesn't have to do anything and he's still pulling.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But the response to that would be, you don't even have to be rich.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you're hot and you're a woman, you just have to be nice.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A guy who's hot, good luck.
		What are you going to get out of that?
		You ain't getting shit out of that stupid.
		Go get a goddamn job.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No, you got it.
		I think that's.
		I'd read some study somewhere and I've put it out of my mind, but I do remember there was an aspect of it that did say, you know, what do women see as an attractive element of a man?
		And to this day, it's still the ability to provide.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Right.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Just like you're, you know, it's a million years ago.
unidentified		Jeff Bezos.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at that smile she has on her face.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She's not bummed out to be with him.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Now it would have been a different story if we were cavemen and you had to rely on Jeff Bezos to provide.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		It's not happening.
		Right.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		But yeah, I mean, it's anyway.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So yeah, so Amazon's doing business with the new Apple store.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's kind of sneaky.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And TikTok's a Chinese company already.
unidentified		Right.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And now, and there's some talk, I mean, they've been making efforts, you know, to limit the ability for TikTok to do business.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You know, like, I think the U.S. military has instructed all personnel to stay off of TikTok, you know, or not to use TikTok.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Really?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Again, because of the same concern.
		The whole idea is this platform, because these companies can argue all they want to that they're independent from the Chinese authorities.
		But ultimately, if the Chinese authorities knock on their door and say, we would like access to your database because we want to hoover up all the information about every U.S. military person that's stationed wherever, or they're going to do it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're trying to get one of the top TikTok executives in here.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Really?
		Yeah.
		Interesting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not really.
		Not really interesting at all.
		Not interesting to me.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So it's not happening.
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fuck you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I don't even understand TikTok.
		I mean, I know the kids, kids use it, kids like it.
		Look at this.
		Make TikTok videos.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's considered a cyber threat.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Lieutenant Colonel Robin Ocha, an Army spokeswoman, told Military.com, we do not allow it on government phones.
unidentified		There you go.
unidentified		Look at that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		A cyber threat.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		An effective tool for reaching young people of generation.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		How old is Generation Z?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're 12.
		What is that?
		My daughter, who's 11, is fucking all about TikTok.
		She's teaching me TikTok dances.
		I'm learning TikTok dances.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That looked good, actually.
unidentified		That was a good blow up if you did some.
unidentified		Oh, yeah, DGB.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm not trying to blow it up.
unidentified		There you go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm not trying.
		But my daughter, literally, she thinks it's hilarious.
		She's teaching me TikTok dances, and we practice for like fucking half an hour.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		But what the hell is it?
		Is it just another version of it's like little videos.
		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Little videos.
		But my 11-year-old's really into it.
		Her friends all think it's hilarious.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I was going to say, I drive slugo to his basketball practices, and occasionally there's two or three other knuckleheads in the car, and that's all they're doing is they're talking over comparing TikTok videos or anything.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's weird.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I can't.
		I can't.
		I'm too busy.
		I'm not interested.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		That's where YouTube started.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I was just like cat videos until it was 15-minute videos, and now it's whatever it is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you think I should jump on board, Jay?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm just saying it's you do think I should jump on board.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		You shouldn't not jump on board.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Let me ask you this: isn't OnePlus, isn't that a Chinese company as well?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Find out what that is.
		OnePlus.
		Because OnePlus is accepted, right?
		I mean, OnePlus sponsors a lot of things.
		They make really high-end phones as well.
		How come they don't get the same kind of scrutiny?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		suspect they do, it just hasn't hit the press.
		I mean, TikTok blew up, I guess, as an app that, well, kids, you know, like, and so it became...
		I didn't realize...
		Again, how old is Generation Z?
		Is that like a 20?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't even know what that is.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		It's below millennials.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's like the next thing, whatever.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So it's below millennials.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's when we're really fucked.
		That's when we really get to see the fruits of our labor.
		How fucked up have we turned this culture?
		Well, let's check out the 10-year-olds.
		Let's see how ridiculous these are.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And not to disappear down a rabbit hole, but I agree.
		I think we have no idea.
		We have no idea what technology is, how it's going to impact in the long run.
		We don't have enough of a test case yet.
		And I can look at my kids and just within my little microcosm of my three little dudes, their sort of their attention span, right?
		And their ability to, and you can see it impacting it.
		You can see it impact the way that they study, the way that they learn, the way that, and I don't think we're, you know, again, I'm not a Luddite, you know, but I don't know that we're doing ourselves any favors, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't think we're doing ourselves favors either, and I don't think there's any way of pulling back from it.
		There's no, like, you could tell your kids to pull back.
		You could maybe get your friend's kids to pull back, but culturally, no one's pulling back from this stuff.
		They're getting more and more immersed in their phones, more and more immersed in apps and internet.
		The big thing is apps to me.
		They all get on these little social media apps, like whether it's TikTok or whatever it is, and they're all direct messaging and looking at each other's stuff, and it becomes a giant part of your life.
		You know, these kids, like you look at their phone, my daughter has friends that don't have any restrictions on their phones.
		My daughter has like a time limit on her phone.
		She's at one hour in the whole day.
		Other than that, you're not.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You have to do that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you have to do that.
		But she's got a little friend that doesn't have any time.
		And this little friend, like, you would think this girl, like, her fucking skin is growing onto this phone.
		She never goes anywhere without this phone in her hand, and she's always looking at it.
		Like, she can't talk to anybody for five seconds without looking at her phone, checking TikTok, checking out.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		But she's getting that from her parents.
		People see that.
		I mean, look at adults.
		I mean, how many times have you sat in a restaurant and everybody at the table is staring at their phone?
		Yeah.
		Or you get on the, I got on the car rental bus today, and I dropped my bag on the thing, and I stood there, and I looked down at the bus, and everybody was staring at their phone.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		At least that's dead time, right?
		You're just sitting on a bus waiting to get to those.
		Let's check my email real quick.
		That makes sense.
		That's not a bad time to use your phone.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, in the old days, you'd start up a conversation with the guy next to you.
		So where are you from?
		Omaha, huh?
		No, you wouldn't.
		Never mind.
		I don't know where I was going with that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You could, but then you'd want to call Homeland Security.
		Do you see anything suspicious?
		Yeah, this fucking guy talked to me on the bus.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know what that's all about.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		He wanted something he referred to as a conversation.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's my favorite.
		If you see anything suspicious, call this number.
		Everything's suspicious.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The whole thing is.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		See something, say something.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		Yeah, I know.
		What do you think about this?
		Have you seen this latest dispute between Apple and the government?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, what's the latest?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, you know, we had the shooting down at Pensacola.
		And so it was a Saudi soldier who was down there for flight instruction and killed three people in the classroom.
		They're finally taken out by deputies because we don't allow our soldiers to carry weapons on the base.
		And anyway, point being is that when this happened, he had two phones, Apple.
		I think one was a five, one was a seven.
		And so the FBI got the phones.
		They went to Apple, but asked for assistance with the first one.
		I don't know which phone they were asking for.
		And Apple claims that, yeah, yeah, we provided assistance.
		We gave him access to iCloud data backup and some transactional records and what they were asking for.
		And then they went to Apple, I think, just a week ago or so, with a request for assistance with the second one.
		They subpoenaed Apple a couple days later.
		So, you know, we need assistance in getting into these phones.
		Still the same problem that they had three or four years ago, the San Bernardino show.
		Yes.
		And so we had that big kerfuffle where they were saying, look, Apple's not assisting.
		They're not helping us get into this.
		Government had to go to, as it turns out, to an Israeli forensics group, spent a lot of money to get cracked into these phones.
		Anyway, so Bill Barr, the attorney general, came out just yesterday, past couple of days, and he's been lambasting Apple, saying, you're hampering this investigation.
		You're not helping us in terms of dealing with this terrorist incident.
		And Apple's saying, you know, what the fuck, we are providing some assistance.
		So we're back in that same thing that we were in four years ago, where you got this battle over access and pushing an investigation forward and the concern over privacy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What do they want that Apple's not willing to provide?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, they want access to the phones.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		The idea was initially they were trying to get backup, or sorry, a back door that could be used by law enforcement to get into the iPhone.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So see it here.
		Trump wants Apple to unlock the Pensacola shooters' iPhones.
		Here's why it won't.
		First of all, this is CNN, which is fake news.
		Oh, fake.
		It's all fake news.
		It says, we have always maintained there's no such thing as a back door just for the good guys.
		Backdoors can be exploited by those who threaten our national security and the data security of our customers, Apple added.
		Today, law enforcement has access to more data than ever before in history, so Americans do not have to choose between weakening encryption and solving investigations.
		We feel strongly encryption is vital to protecting our country and our users' data.
		Yeah, but I don't understand, like, what are they looking for that they won't let these guys find?
		It's one thing that like back doors, but I'm not talking about a back door.
		I'm talking about like there should be a way that they can get into the phone, right?
		There should be a way that you can, not just the iCloud backup, but you could open up the phone and do it with like the Apple should have like some skeleton key or something like that.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, that's what they're saying they're not going to provide.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		They're not going to provide a software solution to allow them access to get into these phones.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But what else could he have on his phone if it's iCloud backed up?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like an iCloud backup is essentially your phone, but it's in the cloud.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Right, but you can also turn that off.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But have they turned it off?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Has he turned it off?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I don't know the details of that, but I would suspect so.
		But there's other data that you can access from that phone that would be relevant to this.
		Now, I tend to, in this situation, I tend to side with Apple.
		I understand the Attorney General, his responsibility is whatever, protecting American citizens.
		So, okay, he's going to have this position.
		But Apple's basically saying, look, we're not going to break the terms of our contract with all the people that have iPhones where we're providing them with privacy.
		And they're also, I think, saying to some degree, look, yeah, we understand that criminals can use encryption, right?
		I mean, they do, right?
		They take advantage of the encryption that's available and the lack of access.
		But so do millions of citizens who use the iPhones just to keep their bank records or whatever they have on there.
		And so the encryption benefits everybody in a sense.
		Obviously, it benefits the criminals.
		Now, I think I also kind of side with Apple at this point because, frankly, I think technology has kind of made some of these arguments moot, meaning that there are ways to get into these phones now.
		So the Bureau or the government doesn't have to just go to Apple and say, please let us in.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But there were boxes that the police were buying that would allow you to hack in the phones.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		There's several companies.
		The companies that are allowing or the developing access or ability to access these phones, the competition has been increasing.
		And what happens, people get better at it, right?
		And so they develop new techniques.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But then the problem is like bad guys can buy them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So they can get a hold of your phone, steal your phone from you, and then open it up and then use your phone to text people or get weird with you.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and so then what are you saying?
		When you're saying, okay, well, a company that's got that access point, like the Israeli company or several others out there, Grayshift and a few others that provide this.
		So then you're relying on them to control who they're selling to.
		And some of these companies sell only to the government and to whoever is DEA or so I guess the point being is that I don't think the old arguments of even a few years ago that says we can't get in so we need Apple's assistance.
		I think that's kind of going by the wayside.
		And the government does have the ability to get in there at this point.
		So I'm not quite sure why they're picking a fight.
		Again, I don't know all the details, but I don't know why.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is it possible that they can't get in the phone?
		Is that possible?
		Because they're saying back doors can be exploited.
		But if you give Apple a phone and say, hey, I don't know the password of this, can you get in there?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Apple can't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They can get in there.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, Apple can.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		They don't want to hand over that ability of that software because, again, it's a commercial issue, right, for them.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right, but shouldn't it be possible if they don't want to hand over that software that they could just open it for the government and the government doesn't have to get the software?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, the government's made that argument to them before, for whatever reason, because I think it part is the optic, right?
		That says, okay, well, apparently Apple's willing to do this.
		I think they just want to hold the line and say, absolutely not, because I think they're looking at this from, again, from almost a pure commercial perspective.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I kind of understand that, but then I kind of say, well, this guy's a fucking terrorist.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You would think he's a shooter.
		Yeah, okay.
		I mean, yeah, you've got a contract with all these people that says, okay, I'll protect your privacy.
		But you think that would be, you know, you're abdicating your ability to hold them to that contract if you go out and shoot a few people.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is the guy still alive, the shooter?
		No.
		Okay, so what's the fucking problem?
		He doesn't have any privacy.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		He's dead.
		It's a good point.
		I just find it interesting.
		We're back having that same argument that we had a few years ago, right?
		And we haven't.
		And I think, like I said, I'm not sure why Barr is pushing this argument necessarily the way he is.
		I mean I get what his position has to be given his job as attorney general.
		But I think we're past that point.
		I think there's hacking solutions that are legitimately available through forensics groups that have been developing these things that can assist the government to do this.
		I just found it.
		I found it interesting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It is interesting because it's like, I understand that Apple does not want to open up too much to the government's demands.
		And if they do, look, we don't have a tyrannical government, but what if we did?
		I mean, like what's going on with China and Huawei?
		It's like very similar.
		If Apple sort of opens up the door to the government and they slide right in and start really using Apple's software and their phones to manipulate people and access data that they really shouldn't have access to, people that are under investigation.
		And it's just like it opens up the door to all sorts of other weird possibilities.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, yeah, and it goes back and it starts to feed that belief that the government's spying on everybody.
		The reality is they neither have the resources or the interest, frankly, or the ability to spy on everybody.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, this is what I always say to people.
		Like, who's spying on you?
		There's another person?
		So there's one person that just spies on you all day.
		So imagine.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You're assigned one person.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's 300 million people in this country.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's 300 million spies spying on those 300 million people.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Is that what's going on?
		You got one target.
		That's all you do all day long is watch one person.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But then there's the thing about them collecting data, like the NSA collecting data and collecting all your phone calls, collecting all your text messages.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You know what's bigger threat is Amazon or Google or Sam.
		You know what?
		You turn on your Samsung TV.
		You know what it's doing?
		It's watching you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Don't watch me.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, TV's got the ability to watch you.
		It's called Smart Interactivity.
		So it's got a camera and the whole idea was, well, we'll do this so that we can figure out what you're watching and what you think of it.
		So not only is it watching, but it could listen.
		So it's the commercial site that's collecting information, not necessarily for nefarious purposes, collecting it for marketing purposes to make more money, which is what they're in business to do.
		But they're the ones that are hoovering up data, right?
		That then leaks out because somebody hacks, grabs all that information, and then they use it for something nefarious.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I get nervous when I hear about companies like Facebook that are thinking about starting their own cryptocurrency.
unidentified		And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Are you going to have your own money now?
		I'm not a not believer, but I'm not invested in it.
		It's not like something I'm – I had a guy on several times, Andreas Antonopoulos, who's a Bitcoin expert.
		Very, very bright and interesting guy.
		And I really enjoyed talking to him about it.
		But he's all in.
		He does all his banking with Bitcoin, pays his rent with Bitcoin, gets paid with Bitcoin.
		Everything is Bitcoin with him.
		And he's loved by the Bitcoin community and all this different stuff.
		But at the end of the day, I just don't totally understand how you can have so many of them.
		Like, how many cryptocurrencies are there?
		And then if you don't have so many of them, well, who's to say when you could stop making them?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Right, right.
		Who's the arbiter to say, no, that's legitimate or that is not.
		I don't know.
		I don't know.
		I fall in the category, but I don't understand it.
		To be fair, I haven't taken the time to understand it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can't think about everything.
		This is my take on it.
		You can't.
		You don't have enough time to think about everything.
		So I'm letting that one play out on its own.
		I'm going to just sit back.
		And when it's 100%, when it's 100% all, when everybody's like, look, Bitcoin is just like money.
		Yeah.
		Okay.
		But until then.
		And they kind of predicted it was going to be just like money quite a few years ago, and it never really did hit that.
		But you can buy some things with Bitcoin.
		There's some companies that let you buy computers with Bitcoin.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I'm sure there's a fair amount of transaction that goes on from what I understand.
		But again, I don't understand.
		I don't understand how it's backed necessarily.
		I'm sure I'll probably get all sorts of comments now.
		Like, you're a fucking idiot.
		You should be heavily involved in Bitcoin.
		But I buy gold bars and playing them out in the back.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They've been killing people for gold forever.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's legit shit.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah, that's the way I feel about it.
		Gold and catheters.
		I'm stocking up on both.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Those are both going to be really important in the future.
		But gold is a weird one, right?
		Because, like, why are we still so invested in this soft, shiny metal?
		Like, you know, all the shit that people need.
		Why gold?
		I don't even like it as jewelry.
		I think it's kind of tacky.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Yeah.
		When I met my wife, I was still wearing a gold chain from my Miami Vice days.
		Yeah, she still doesn't let me forget that.
		It was pretty sweet.
		It wasn't like flavor favor or anything.
		It wasn't big and chunky, but it was, it was, I thought it was big.
		I thought it was understated.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was like a herringbone sort of thing.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It was like a Greek key thing.
unidentified		Yeah, yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I lived out in that part of the world for a while.
		So anyway, it was explained to me that it wasn't as hep as I thought it was at the time.
		And so I put it away with all my other gold jewelry.
		And my boys will fight over for it when I'm dead.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, women will let you know.
		They'll clean you up.
		They'll go, hey, hey, hey, you got to stop with that stupid shit.
		Like, I thought that was a, I thought I'm looking fly.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I walked out the other day.
		We were getting ready to go to some function.
		And I come walking down the steps.
		It was a casual thing, right?
		And I thought, okay.
		So, and I'm not a really, I'm not a naturally social person in the sense that I don't like to go to big gatherings of people.
		I mean, I like going out to a dinner or just to hang out for drinks with, you know, like small six, eight people that I know, right?
		And then I know I'm going to get, this is where we're going.
		I don't have to walk into a crowd and go from little group to little group having some small conversation.
		I'm not good at it.
		So, but we're going to one of these things.
		So I think in my mind, I thought, I just have.
		So, I come walking down the steps.
		I'm wearing a cardigan.
		And my wife is walking up the steps to get something that she forgot upstairs.
		And she stops on the stairs and she looks.
		And so, as I'm coming down the stairs, I see her stop down there and she's staring at me.
		I'm thinking, what?
		And I thought, I liked this cardigan.
unidentified		I bought it in the shop.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I thought, this looks pretty good.
		I thought it had like a Matthew McConaughey vibe to it.
		And she's staring at me like, what the fuck is that?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What color is it?
		What color is nice?
		Can you pull up a picture of a Greg cardigan, please?
		I want to get an image in my mind.
		Yeah, okay.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		A picture of Matthew McConaughey in a cardigan.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I don't think somebody must have Googled that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, I think he's a cardigan wear.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is he a big cardigan wear?
unidentified		That was the word because I thought, okay, I'm being pretty chill here.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That was another word I got from my kids.
		And I just thought that it was presenting the right vibe.
		I'm going to a party.
		I'm casual.
		I'm relaxed.
		I'm going to be.
		I don't know what I was thinking.
		Anyways, she made me go upstairs and change it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Damn, she made it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Maybe do.
		Well, yeah.
		I mean, this is my second go-around, and I've learned that I'm not as smart as I used to be.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look, see, that's what I'm talking about when he was in the Dallas Buyers Club.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Hey, well, you wanted a cardigan.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, no, that's what I'm talking about.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jesus Christ, look at that.
		That was when he was really sick.
		That fucking guy has never looked the same again since he lost all that weight for that movie.
		Yeah.
		He's been drawn out since then.
		That's got to be so devastating for your system to put yourself through that kind of shit.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I think it must be worse than gaining weight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's way worse.
		Look at his face, man.
		I mean, he looks like a dead man.
		God damn, he knocked out of the park in that movie, though.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he did.
		It was a great movie.
		I hope he got paid well enough for it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You can't.
		There's not enough money in the world to make you lose that much weight.
		You know, the worst one, though, was the mechanic.
		Not the mechanic, the machinist.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		With what the fuck's new?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Christian Bale.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Christian Bale did, he did the most horrific weight cut.
		I've never seen anybody that skinny in a movie.
		I mean, he was like legitimately days before death.
unidentified		Oh, God.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, look at that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at what he looked like.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		That was a toy.
		That was a toy.
		That's a computer rendering.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There you go.
		Yeah.
		And then he was Batman like six months later, and he got on.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Got on the fucking Mexican supplements.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's that back and forth.
		It's that back and forth.
		It'll do your body in.
		Terrible.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Terrible for you.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		If you can maintain a kind of a consistent weight.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at that, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Jesus Christ.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's got to be.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		There's got to be some shopping in there, photoshopping.
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		No, no.
		If you see the movie, man, he was eating an apple and a can of tuna a day.
		That's it.
		That was all he was eating.
		And what happens then is your body starts eating itself.
		And so look how he looked in Dick Cheney.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You got real fat to play Dick Cheney.
		Damn, that's like Burt Kreiser fat.
		That's fat as fuck.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Look at that.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's a lot of fat right there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		God damn.
		Well, yeah, he's dedicated to his craft.
		But here's the thing: the movie sucked.
		So it's like you almost killed yourself for a movie that sucked.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Did you see the Joker?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		What'd you think?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Fantastic.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		It's great.
		It's weird how it's really drawn out both sides.
		Nobody's sort of like agnostic about it.
		It sucks or it's great.
		That's the way I keep getting those same responses.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's a great movie, but it's disturbing as shit.
		But there's a lot of weird stuff to it, right?
		It's like it's almost celebrating the idea that the system is broke.
		We're just going to fucking shoot everybody who's rich and light everything on fire and let these fucking mentally ill people not take their medication and just run things.
		And he was Joaquin Phoenix, first of all, he's on another level.
		Like his portrayal, he's always been an amazing actor.
		But that movie, boy, they created a work of art with that character.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it's just you bought into it, hook, line, and sinker that he was as crazy fuck.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And when, spoiler alert, when he shoots Robert De Niro, like, there's scenes in that movie that make you just go, wow.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I will say this, though.
		My favorite Joker has always been Cesar Romero right there.
		There you go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it was a Batman TV show?
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		The TV show.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Hands down.
unidentified		Really?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, well.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I mean, I'm fairly old school.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's terrible.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He does look pretty goddamn crazy, though.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You know, he.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		God damn, it looks pretty good there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm taking it back.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		He did it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not bad.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		He kind of, you know, he sort of, that was it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Either was my favorite.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Ethel Ledger was good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He was great, too.
		Jared Lido couldn't.
		Nah.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He can go pound sand with that.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		But the Jokers got great Oscar nominations, right?
		I think.
		Oh, yeah.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		He's got the best actor for that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I watched that suicide squad, the Jared Lido one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was like, oh, it's just a little too stiff.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Did you see the new one he's in?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		He's playing Morbius, who's a vampire in a Marvel movie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, give me a picture of him.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Let me see what you got here.
unidentified		Look good.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Marvel's like.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Every movie's a Marvel or DC comics movie nowadays.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Are you getting upset?
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I wish I had a piece of the action.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I remember Morbius.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, this is Jared Leto playing Morbius.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Kind of skipped through.
unidentified		Wow.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Gets superpowers.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So he becomes a vampire?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		He's like a guy who was dying, had a blood disease, and he goes like one last thing to figure it out.
		And I guess the vampire, the bats helped him.
		Well, sort of powerful.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And comes back jacked.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, and he starts fucking people up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Woo, I like it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When does this come out?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I think the summer?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I just put the trailer out the other day, so I don't remember the exact one.
unidentified		I had no idea that bats had that ability, but they don't, bro.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, it's a movie.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, I can't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Theaters this summer.
unidentified		All right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Morbius.
		I'm in.
		I'm all in, Jared.
		I take it back.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		We had bats in our attic, believe it or not.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		We had bats in our attic in Idaho, right?
unidentified		Really?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I'm sitting outside on the porch one day.
		I know, again, I'm sorry about this, but I'm sitting out on the porch.
		I look up, and it's the sun's setting, and the stink flies out from the top of the roof.
		We got like this four-story brick place, and out comes this thing, and then another one, then another one.
		We had bats flying out because it's getting dark, and they're coming out of our attic.
		So I think, you got to be kidding me.
		So we went to a wildlife specialist who came over, and he kind of staked out the place a couple of nights, figured out what the story was with him, and we got eventually got rid of the bats.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You had to hire a wildlife specialist?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, it's a bad thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why didn't you just get a tennis racket?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No, no, well, you know, it's baby bats, you know, and the kids didn't want to hurt the baby bats.
		And so we had to wait for the baby bats to grow a little bit and then whack them.
		Yeah, no, then whack them.
		Then you shoot them with your airshoft, airsoft pistol.
		But the interesting thing about bats, they fly out, they drop down and fly out.
		But if you stop their ability, right, to go straight back into the hole, they can't get back home.
		So you create a situation because they can't dip down, then fly up, and then go in, right?
		They have to come straight in, straight at that.
		Well, this is fascinating bat stuff.
		But if I had known that they could create that sort of superpower ability, I would have kept it following them around.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But then you stay alive forever.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You don't want that.
unidentified		No.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a crazy story about a guy who was, I don't remember where he was, but a bat flew by and hit his hand, just hit his hand.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And apparently the bat had rabies, and he died of rabies like two weeks later.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Seriously.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, apparently rabies is one of those things where if you get bit by something that has rabies, they got to get you in right away.
		I mean, they got to get you in right away.
		And once it takes hold, you're fucking dead.
		It's 100% lethal.
		But they can get you if you get in right away.
		But he didn't even know anything was wrong.
		He didn't have a visible sign on his hand.
		Bat flew into the hand of British Columbia man who died of rabies infection.
		Yeah, so this thing, it just flew into his hand and left a small cut.
		He was a 21-year-old kid on Vancouver Island.
unidentified		Good God.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Health authorities confirmed that the patient was outdoors in broad daylight when the nocturnal creature struck his hand and flew away.
		He wasn't doing anything risky.
		They would put him in a position that would even encounter bats, Dr. Boone, Bonnie Henry of BC's chief provincial health provider.
		This is an incredibly unfortunate, strange circumstance for this young man and his family.
		No visible puncture or scratch marks.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Because apparently they can be microscopic.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		The cuts.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So he developed the symptoms of rabies six weeks after the exposure.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So it's just as well I didn't send the kids up to take care of the bats, is what you're saying.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
		He'd been driving and he pulled over the side of the road when a bat flew into him.
		What the?
		That's like a horror movie.
		Yeah.
		You know, it really is.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Out of final destination.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Like, he got missed.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		The bat came back.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I mean, to be fair, it's not a very interesting horror movie, but it's the idea behind it.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Right.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It would only be interesting if it was like World War Z type shit.
		Yeah.
		Just started.
		But that's kind of like what rabies is, the animals.
		Rabies turns animals into these sick, really aggressive creatures that want to infect you with whatever they're infected with.
		They want to bite you.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, raccoons.
		You remember as a kid, though, it was always, the rabies thing was always, you don't want to get rabies because you got to go in for these series of shots in your stomach.
		I always remember that.
		That was always the story.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Why the stomach?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I don't know.
		It was like, you know, don't accept apples on Halloween because there'll be a razor blade.
		It was just sort of like this thing that you always heard as a kid.
		You're going to get these shots in your stomach, so stay away from raccoons.
		Yeah, whatever.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Worldwide, only five or six people survived a rabies infection.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Holy shit.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Those are the people you got to go to when the zombies come, right?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You got to find those people and harness their blood.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		BC is home to 17 species of bats with 10 species found in Metro Vancouver.
		Wow.
		Risk from rabies and bats is everywhere in BC.
		Jesus Christ.
		13% of bats tested positive for rabies.
		13%?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I always thought of British Columbia as a really nice place to be.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But that's in the province.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Amongst bats in the wild, the rate is about 1%.
unidentified		What?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You got a fucking horrible infestation up there, BC.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Get your shit together.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		What are they doing up there?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm coming up there at 420.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Isn't Prince Harry and Megan, aren't they going to Vancouver?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		We should tell them about the bat thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We should.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		They should.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		They're not going.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I forgot to post that my shows are for sale.
		I did, but not today.
		They're for sale right now.
		I'm doing Vancouver on 420.
		I hope I don't get rabies.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Nice.
		You know what I mean?
		You get to bring gloves to get to Vancouver.
		You kind of pass through sort of Boise, maybe.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, do you?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, not really.
		Not from here.
		No, you don't.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'm flying.
		I'm not driving.
		It would take days.
		What do we have?
		Wagon train?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You should travel in an RV?
unidentified		Do you think it's a big deal?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Always, yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like fucking Chevy Chase and family vacation.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		The truckster.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Family truckster.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Bert takes a goddamn tour bus everywhere.
		Bert has a tour bus with his face all over it.
		Crazy, crazy asshole.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Have you ever driven across the country?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yes, when I was a little kid.
		That was a long, long, long time ago.
		I don't enjoy that kind of waste of time.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		But they would join me.
		Not even with the kids getting an RV and driving.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They would go crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		My kids would beat me to death.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Shut up, kids.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I'm driving.
unidentified		They would go, we're not going any further.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think it would be interesting if you had like an agenda.
		Like if you're going to go to Grand Canyon, then you were going to go to Zion National Park.
		You had a bunch of different things to do, and you had months of time, and you can make your way across the country.
		But just the drive for fucking five days straight across the country, that can eat a bag of dicks.
		I'm not interested in that.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's boring.
		I think you're right.
		Going to a national park in Yellowstone, for example.
		Anybody who hasn't been to Yellowstone, go to Yellowstone.
		It's incredible.
		Don't go into summertime, but go.
		But I've always, I've tried to convince my wife that it's a good idea to get an RV, drive, you know, and spend a couple of weeks with the kids.
		And she looks at me like I'm wearing a cardigan.
		It's that same look I get.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it seems like a good idea, but if it was a really good idea, I think more people would be doing it.
		I think once you actually start doing it, you're like, what am I doing here?
		I'm just sitting down all day.
		My back's killing me.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		The kids are on screens the whole time.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Everyone's like, when are we going to be there?
		When are we going to be there?
		Are we there?
		How much more time?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Stop touching me.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Stop hitting me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Stop eating.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, you get mad at me.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, if you're watching screens, too, like, that's not good for a kid to be watching screens eight hours a day all day long, just driving across the country while they're playing with their iPads.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, you got to take that away from, going back to that other thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, but then what are they doing?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're staring out the window.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Then they want to talk to you.
unidentified		Oh, geez.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Talk to me about TikTok dances.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's what I want to do.
		You know you're heading that direction.
		I know a couple weeks from now, I'm going to...
		Somebody's going to send me a TikTok of you dancing.
		Trust me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Trust me.
		That's not happening.
		There's a lot of guys who swear by that tour bus life, though.
		They like it.
		They're like my friend Sturgil, Sturgil Simpson, he travels with a tour bus.
		He said he would rather spend the whole day in a tour bus than an hour on a plane.
		Like if he's going to go from one place to the other.
		He goes, it's like a living room.
		Like you just sit down and relax.
		And so him and his band, they just chill.
		They just hang out in this tour bus and smoke a little devil's cabbage and kick back and relax.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And it's, yeah, I can see that.
		I haven't spent most of my life in airports.
		I get the idea behind it.
		You're right.
		It is a time suck, you know, getting from point A to point B. But this country is pretty amazing, and it is.
		There's a lot to see, right?
		There's so much to see, and we tend to overlook that fact.
		And, you know, the Europeans always want to make fun of us because, you know what, 90% of Americans don't have passports.
		Then, you know, you point out, well, have you driven across Texas?
		You know, have you been out west?
		Have you done these things?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is it that many don't have passports?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I think it's a high number.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		90%.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Really?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		The percentage of U.S. citizens that do not own a passport or do not have a passport.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I have a feeling it's coming up soon.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, it's interesting.
		You didn't even used to need one to get to Canada or Mexico.
		You used to be able to just have a driver's license, get right across.
		We had a nice friendly agreement with everybody.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you just jump across the river.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Not anymore.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No, what is that whole wall thing going up?
		Apparently not.
		I don't know where the wall stands.
		Well, I've missed it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What the wall is, is it's a great little parkour set up for these Mexican dudes who know how to climb them.
		They're excellent at it.
		Percentage of the Americans with passports.
		Oh, it's rising.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, okay.
unidentified		All right.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I take it back then.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow, it's more than 40%.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Okay.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's interesting.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I mean, it used to be true.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, look at the 1989.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It was fucking nobody.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		What was happening in 89?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look in 1989.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's like literally less than 5%.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Maybe that's what I was thinking.
		Maybe I'm stuck in 89.
		Yeah, I thought that's, yeah, that's to see that.
		Because the music was great back then.
		So maybe that's why I'm reliving my 80s.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is that the Reagan days?
		89?
		I think that's Reagan.
		Wasn't Reagan president back then?
		Bush?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Bush.
unidentified		Bush.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He didn't want to travel.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Maybe, right?
unidentified		Maybe no one wanted to travel because they were worried about the Russians.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		88.
		So I was 22.
		What is up with that lady?
		76% of people in England and Wales have a UK passport.
		Okay.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I've got a UK passport.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Do you?
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I'm a dual citizen, so.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Look at you.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know.
unidentified		How does that work?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, I'm a little upset with Prince Harry, but other than that, it's working out really well.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Are you mad that he left the throne or whatever the fuck he did?
unidentified		No, I mean, you know, doesn't it make sense?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, it probably makes sense because, you know, I don't know that he's the sharpest tool in the box, and he's probably thinking we can make a lot more money if, but they're not supposed to make any money off of being a member of the royal family.
		And yet they've trademarked, apparently, sort of their brand, Duke and Duchess of Sussex.
		And they're not allowed to make any money off of the royal family.
		So they're given allotments, allowances, you know, living expenses.
		How much?
		It's a significant amount.
		Look, they've got a house on the grounds of Windsor Castle they're going to continue to live in.
		So I guess here's my point.
		They can do whatever the fuck they want, but it would have been nice if they told their grandmother so that she didn't have to find out about it on the news.
		I thought that was kind of a queen.
		Spotted dick move, but yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Spotted dick move.
unidentified		The queen.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		The queen.
unidentified		She found out she was a bad person.
unidentified		She found out.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That is a remarkably accurate voice.
unidentified		I've worked hard at it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So she found out on TV, but they want to be financially independent.
		They trademarked Duke and Duchess of Sussex in a variety of different ways, apparently.
		And she's going to go back to doing whatever she did.
unidentified		It's that little American hussy he's hooked up with.
unidentified		She's come to turn him into a Kardashian.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's exactly what's going to happen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, listen, they're already so popular.
		All they need to do is start endorsing fucking makeup lines and sneakers and watches and shit.
		Next thing you know, Ched's a millionaire.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, she's got a massive following on Instagram, which I suspect she wants to start to monetize that thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, how much do you think they make?
		Find out how much they make.
		How much do they make from the royal family?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		That'd be public.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		My public.
		Not public.
		You think they hide that shit?
unidentified		Well, he got it.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		It would be better than me.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No, I don't think they're hiding it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You think they make a million a year?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, yeah, more than that.
		I mean, look, he got, I think, from his mother, I think as an inheritance, he got some $9 million.
		Prince Harry.
		And then she's probably worth about $6 million on her own for her acting career.
		I didn't know what she was acting in, but.
unidentified		That little American hussy has ruined my prince.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		He's up, but he's off to Vancouver.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And the guy doesn't even know there's a rabies issue there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		There's a fucking 13% bat rabies problem there, buddy.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is that what he's going to go?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		He's going to go to Vancouver.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Apparently, they're looking to move part-time to Canada.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're going to start a reality show.
		I guarantee you, some creepy producer got a hold of them and go, guys, listen, you're wasting your time over here in England.
		It rains too much.
		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Look, you're pissing away the money she's worth.
		And he's probably thinking, yeah, I want to get out of this.
		But then he came out and said, well, we're not going to move to the States.
		Supposedly, he came out and said that this is also, I can't believe we sound like page six or something.
		But he came out and said, you know, we're not moving to the States until Trump is going to be able to do it.
unidentified		Trump is out of office.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		Thank you, Prince Harry, at least for that.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		This is what the queen gets, but her grandchildren's money isn't public.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, my God.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The queen received $58 million free of tax from the sovereign grant in the 2016-2017 fiscal year.
unidentified		Damn.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What kind of goofy shit is that?
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They give them.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		But more of the next year.
unidentified		$58 million.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		$53 million.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		$103 million in the next year.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's good to be queen.
unidentified		To help finance the extensive renovation of Buckingham Palace.
unidentified		We need more money.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Palace is pretty impressive.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But imagine being a poor person and you find out that the queen, who literally does nothing, is making $100 million in a year.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		See, this is where I don't think I could ever say anything negative about the queen.
		I think I got a tremendous amount of it.
unidentified		I feel like her, like she's, you know, grandmother, but I too.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I've got to do it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because you have a dual citizenship.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, everybody's brainwashed over there.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		But she's, I mean, but she has been a remarkably consistent.
		She's got a shit show of a family.
		Thank you, Michael.
unidentified		Thank you for standing out to me.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Exactly.
unidentified		That's Juligan, Joe Revigan, and this terrible internet show would be illegal in my country.
unidentified		I deserve that $100 million you didn't fuck.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Think about all the public service she does.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, she's amazing.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's incredible.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Just this alone.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's worth a lot of money.
unidentified		Think about it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Each wave is now apparently $103 million.
		That's a significant amount.
		No, anyway, I don't know how we got down this one, but Prince Harry, they left.
		Oh, that's right.
		They left to go to Rabystown.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So if she is making $100 million a year, he's probably making $10.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's a significant amount.
		So it's, you know, I get it.
		Okay, they want to go.
		Again, who cares?
		But they want to go.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Make money off the royal family.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Now, you can't make money off the royal family, off the royal brand.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So it's like, you know, the idea is you're getting paid enough.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because what a goofy system.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They just give them money for free to be a royal.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And the British taxpayers are saying, like, what the fuck?
		We're going to keep subsidizing them?
		And they're going to go to Canada and we're going to keep paying them and they're going to live part-time here.
		And they're not going to do any of the representative or representational work or whatever.
unidentified		Wow.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So I don't even know what it is.
		It's real.
		I don't know.
		You got to show up at events.
		Well, how about the other prince?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		How about the other prince, the one that's Epstein's friend?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Oh, Andrew.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that was.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		First of all, how odd is that guy?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When they're interviewing him and talking to him, it's like, what?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		The queen kicked him to the curb very quickly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, it's very strange.
		What is your take on this whole Epstein thing?
		First of all, can we just agree?
		Look at that.
unidentified		So you're sure she's 18?
unidentified		Positive.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You're telling me that, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She does not look 18.
unidentified		She looks 16.
unidentified		Are you sure?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You sure?
		What up?
		What a shit show that is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, what a shit show.
		So let me ask you this right off the bat.
		Well, I don't know what I'm going to ask you.
		He didn't kill himself, right?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I don't believe so.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Thank you.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You know me, I'm not a conspiracy guy, right?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I don't dispirit on rabbit holes very often, but no, I don't think there's any way in hell he killed himself.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Michael Shermer, who's the head of Skeptics Magazine, who doesn't believe anything, found out that the tapes were missing and that the fucking cameras didn't work and that the tapes were deleted from the first, accidentally deleted from the first time he attempted suicide.
		And Shermer's like, oh, this is a conspiracy.
		Like, it was enough evidence that one of the biggest skeptics, a professional skeptic.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah, yeah.
unidentified		Professional skeptic doesn't believe anything.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		There's just no, there's no way I could be convinced that he offed himself.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No way.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So he knew too much.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And, you know, it's astounding, but yeah, what a shit show.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		But, you know, nobody's going to get to the bottom of anything.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But that's a crazy one.
		Like, they got him in the jail.
		The guards are somehow or another getting in trouble.
		So who knows what the guards are going to say?
		They might get suicided.
		My favorite part was the guy they chose for his cellmate.
		Do you see the fucking gorilla they chose for his salemate?
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Reminded me of that Richard Pryor, that old Richard Pryor movie.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I don't know if you remember that one.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The guy, look at this fucking guy.
		This giant Goomba, this huge Italian ex-cop who was a murderer and a drug runner.
		I mean, this guy is built like a brick shit house, and this is Epstein's cellmate.
		It's like, what?
		Like, you can't even make this stuff up.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It says he never touched him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Of course.
		Why would I?
		I thought Trump.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Nicolas Tardiglioni.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		What is he?
		What does it say?
		Timeline of Events and Quadruple Homicide?
		Is that what it says?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I think so.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So this fucking guy, this giant.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		He likes dogs, though.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he loves dogs.
		They keep him from all the people that he killed.
		They bark when they're coming around.
		You can grab your gun.
		It's a good move.
		It's just crazy.
		There's so many pieces to the puzzle that are so ridiculously obvious.
		And then when you find out that Clinton flew with him at least 26 times.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		26 times.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I had no idea.
		Jeffrey's a good guy.
		No, it's just one of those things.
		And again, I'm not a buyer on these sort of things, but you look at the facts around you, you think they just know there's no way in hell.
		That guy must have known you.
		You would have thought that Epstein would have said to myself, or said to himself, I'm going to get killed here if I'm not careful.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, he probably didn't think it was ever going to get to the point where they were actually jailing him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, when they actually got, because remember he had that deal where he was on work release so he could just do whatever he want and fuck off for 16 hours a day, then he had to check into the jail at night.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And who even knows what that means?
		He might have checked in and just went home again.
		It seems like they had set something up for him to make it very easy for him to be incarcerated for what should be a pretty heinous crime.
		I mean, he was sex with underage girls and sex trafficking.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, it's not just him doing it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I mean, it's just the extent to which and so, yeah, but then you look at, I forget what her name is, sort of the his assistant, Giselle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What's his name?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Gislaine.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Gislaine Max.
		What did he say?
		It has an S in it, but I've heard it pronounced with the S or without.
		So Ghelane or Gislane.
unidentified		Okay.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Ghillaine or Gislane.
		Whatever.
		Let's call her G-Rocker.
		So G-Rocker's out there hiding in the bushes in Columbia or something, right?
unidentified		Where is she?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what I was going to say.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I mean, she must be a – you would assume they've deposed her at this point.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She must have something.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		She must have some fucking kill switch where if the shit goes down, all the Clinton tapes come piling out onto the fucking floor of Greenwald's house.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you brought it around to Glenn Greenwald.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hey, Glenn, it's Bill.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You know what?
		Maybe I should convince.
		Oh, there she is.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's when she was at In-N-Out reading a book on ex-CIA agents who've been murdered.
		That's literally what she was reading a book on, right?
		Wasn't that?
		Yeah.
		It was about CIA operators that have been murdered.
		So the idea was that what they said, what people believe, and there's many different versions of what people believe, but look how many pictures she posed for.
		It's so strange.
		But what many people believe was that what he was doing was compromising a lot of these wealthy, powerful people by getting videotapes of them hooking up with young girls, including Prince Andrew, right?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And for whatever reason.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Have you heard of anything like this before?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is this something that's been done in the past?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Not that I've heard of.
		I mean, I'm sure it's, you know, anytime you see some freak show, it's never the first time it's happened, right?
		I mean, so you have to assume it's happened, but to the degree that it's got this level of celebrities and big-time names, I mean, it works so well.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And I'm going to tell you something after the show's over.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'll tell you something after the show's over.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You can just tell me it's just you and me talking.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		If you're whispering.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I hear you in my ears.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		The North Koreans used to do that.
		Sorry about that.
		The North Koreans used to, that was their phone security, is they would get on the phone and when they had something really classified to talk about, they would whisper.
		I think, oh, okay.
		That's hilarious.
		We'll never figure that out.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's really funny.
unidentified		Really?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's how they did it?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, part of it was years ago, I think they just never believed any Westerner could understand Korean.
		I think that was kind of part of it, was that they just believed we were all too stupid or just so complicated that we'd never be able to figure out what they were saying in their own language.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's the price you pay for being so insulated, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You don't really understand what's really going on in the outside world because they don't really have the internet.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		When was the last time we talked about North Korea?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's been quite a while.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		just push that right off the front or but but but but to get to get back we can talk about north korea but to get back to this epstein thing is that a common strategy that intelligence agencies would use where they would try to compromise people in order to get like what would be the benefit if you had like if the massad was doing that and they were doing that to and using that's that's the the theory right right right um Yeah, it's a good point.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I'd say from an Intel services perspective, I mean, one thing I will say is the U.S., and people are never going to believe this because I'm saying it.
		They'll say, oh, that's bullshit.
		But the U.S. agency doesn't do that.
		We don't use honey traps.
		We don't do that sort of thing because that sort of leverage always going to head south on you.
		And so we don't try to coerce somebody in that sort of a relationship that then we can take advantage of.
		And yet other services do, Russians being one of them, they do that all the time.
		Israelis, yeah, they've had some very successful efforts to do that.
		And if you get somebody in that position, It doesn't matter how they're compromising themselves, whether you're putting themselves in with like an Epstein situation where suddenly you've got them, you know, you've got video of them with an underage person, or whether they've provided a document that they shouldn't provide.
		It's all this, the concept is always the same, right?
		It doesn't matter what that action is.
		You're getting them on the hook.
		You're getting something that's leverageable over them.
		And if they don't just go forward immediately, say, and turn around to their boss and say, I'm guilty, did this.
		Sorry.
		Then they're compromised.
		And then you've got them.
		As an Intel service, you've got them.
		You can start reeling the hook in because now you know that not only did they do something, but provided you with a document, even if it was an unclassified document.
		If I go to somebody, if I'm developing a relationship with somebody, some target overseas or whatever, and I'm thinking, all right, now I'm exploring.
		This person's got access.
		They're in an interesting position.
		They're an interesting job.
		And they've got access to information that we want to know.
		It's priority target.
		And then I want to say, okay, now I want to develop the relationship a little bit.
		Maybe I bump into the person at a few parties.
		Maybe we're in the same parent-teacher organization, whatever the shit is, right?
		And our kids play on the same soccer team.
		So then I go and I think, okay, what do I want to do?
		I want to test the waters a little bit.
		I'm not going to say, hey, listen, you know, I understand you work at the foreign ministry here in whatever country you happen to be in.
		How about you give me some documents?
		But instead, maybe it's something different.
		Maybe they work at the foreign ministry.
		Maybe they work at an aerospace business.
		That's a target.
		And you say, but you've developed a bit of a relationship, and then you say, yeah, my kid's doing this school project, and it's all about whatever, hypersonic flight.
		And you know that they work at some aerospace company and say, do you have anything just on hypersonics?
		And you're not looking for anything classified.
		You're just looking for a research paper or a study or something.
		And if they come back and say, yeah, you know what, here, this is an interesting study.
		Now that act alone, they're not giving you something classified, but that act alone means something big, right?
		It means they were taskable in a sense, right?
		They responded to your request for information.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They're suckers.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Not suckers necessarily.
		It could be an enormously smart person.
		And smart people get, yeah, they get suckered into it.
		I guess you could put it that way.
		So anyway, then you go from there.
		Then you ratchet it up slowly, bit by bit, if you've got the timeframe to do it.
		Maybe sometimes you've got to shorten timeframe because there's a requirement to get something and you've got to accelerate the whole process.
		Anyway, but the point being is it's all leverageable.
		And Epstein was obviously getting leverage on all these different people for whatever his purpose was.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What do you think?
		That's what the question is.
		Like, what could he possibly?
		A lot of them were scientists.
		He went with a lot of celebrities.
		There was heads of state.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I don't think he needed money.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Right.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
		I mean, maybe he just, who knows?
		Maybe he got off on sort of being the kingpin in this whole thing.
		It's a good question.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It had to be funded, right?
		So, I mean, there had to be something valuable that they were getting from it.
		I'm guessing.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It hasn't been spelled out to me.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, I've tried to figure out the angle, but I mean, I get the idea of you would have leverage over these people.
		You have them in compromising situations.
		And then they would do things for you.
		But what would they do for you?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Like, what is he getting billed close to?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's a good question.
		And providing him with access, maybe he liked being close to the seat of power.
		Or maybe he liked being close to what he thought was like a royal family member.
		Who knows?
		Because it sounds like he had all the money he needed.
		So maybe it was that sort of access that blew his skirt up.
		I don't know.
		But it is interesting.
		But I don't think.
		I mean, look, it's just been kicked to the curb.
		Obviously, they're doing the trial, I guess, to some degree, but I don't know where they stand.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Nothing's going to happen.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, nothing's going to happen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		We've already swept it under the rug, and there's already new stories out that have got our attention.
		We forget about things so quickly today.
		The news cycle is so fast.
		When something happens, even something as ridiculous as the Epstein case, where it's so obvious that he was murdered, and then Michael Badden goes on 60 minutes and says this is consistent with someone who was strangled.
		I've never, in all my years, have seen people hanged.
		I've never seen them with these kind of fractures.
		This is fractures are indicative of strangulation.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And that is one serious-minded dude, too, right?
		They've got a tremendous amount of experience.
		And he doesn't blow smoke up anybody's ass, right?
		He's very measured.
		And now, obviously, he was there on behalf of Epstein's brother, I guess.
		But anyway, it's one of those things where you think, what the heck, maybe I'm going to put that down as something we should explore.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I want to go visit their cop in jail.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		See what he's probably on a fur-lined cell.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Teglione?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, he's got a giant 72-inch TV.
unidentified		Dogs with him.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, all the dogs there.
		What's happening here?
		Why had he got wire marks in his hands?
		I mean, if you're going to get someone to strangle your cellmate, that's the guy, too.
		I mean, he'd fucking do it in three seconds.
		He's so big.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you don't want somebody who's got to take their time because they can't exert it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You want some Kevin Spacey dude strangling.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's going to take forever.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's old still.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Want some big gorilla dude.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, I tell you what, if this new series I'm doing gets picked up for a second season, well, I'm going to recommend to the producers they put the Epstein case on there.
		Even though it's not quite in line with what we do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, you sent me a – let me – I'll forward it to Jay.
		Did you get it, Jamie?
		So let's look at the trailer for this.
		What is it called?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's called Black Files Declassified.
		And what is it based on the Science Channel, Discovery Science Channel?
		And it's essentially a series looking at something called the Black Budget, right?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Let's play the clip.
		And then we'll talk about it.
		Let's go to the clip, ladies and gentlemen.
		Black files declassified.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Wow.
		Listen to that.
		A top secret aviation program.
unidentified		They will neither confirm nor deny the existence of records funded by a mysterious money trail.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		There was a lot of thought into how we're going to hide the various pots of money could revolutionize flight.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Do you think that you'll see manned hypersonic flight in your lifetime?
unidentified		Oh, yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And unleash a new lethal technology.
unidentified		Extremely high-speeds Mach 5.6.
		That would make these cruise missiles almost impossible to defend against.
		We have Flatby VDA.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Every year, more than $90 billion is allocated to clandestine government programs, collectively called the Black Budget.
		Each individual operation is a black file.
		I'm Mike Baker.
		As a covert CIA operations officer for over a decade and a half, I supervised missions around the globe.
		My security clearances gave me access to many classified projects.
		Now, I'm following the money trail to the secrets hidden inside the Black Files.
unidentified		Damn.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I'd watch that.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'd watch that.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I'd watch that thing over and over again.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, all that kind of shit's fascinating to me.
		It's coming into hypersonic flight.
		Does that mean like this?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		One of our first episodes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When you say manned hypersonic, like they used to have the Concorde, that was hypersonic, right?
unidentified		No.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It wasn't?
unidentified		No.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No, hypersonic is essentially anything over Mach 5 is hypersonic.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So what is that?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And so we don't have, there's nothing, there's no manned hypersonic flight yet.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So the Concorde was the speed of sound.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And this is faster than the speed of sound.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, five times faster.
		I mean, you're talking about a mile a second or so for a missile, a missile traveling.
		So that's what Russia just came out and announced a deployment of a new hypersonic missile or a weapon.
		And that's where the war in space is going, basically, is into hypersonic, mostly unmanned.
		There's some effort to try to figure out can we create a manned vehicle?
		It's really problematic because you think about traveling that fast and you think about what that means for punching through the air and the heat and the materials that are needed.
		But as far as unmanned glide vehicles or whatever, I mean, that's where a tremendous amount of resources are being put right now by the Russians, the Chinese, the U.S. And it's pretty frightening because we don't have any way to defend against it.
		Like the one fellow mentioned in that clip, is that if you think about a triple sort of a ballistic missile, it's got a trajectory, right?
		It goes up and it comes down, just like the Cold War days.
		We had all the defenses set up to intercept Russian missiles coming towards us.
		Well, we knew what the path was going to be, right?
		And so we were able to deploy a defense system against this.
		The idea with hypersonic weapons is you have no idea, right?
		You've got almost no warning, and you'd have no idea what that trajectory is for those going so fast and it's adjustable, right?
		So it's not just depending on a missile, ballistic missile goes up and it's going to come down and you know exactly what that path is going to look like.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So they can adjust it, like they can slow it down.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You can slow it down, you can change direction.
		Yeah, yeah.
		So you think about it, it's a big deal.
		So one of our, I think it may be our first episode is going to be focused on hypersonics and it's, but there's a variety of other episodes in this thing, but it's all looking at this idea that the black budget exists.
		It does exist.
		And there's, you know, each project, whether it was a project to develop hypersonic flight, in which the U.S. government had that, whether it's, you know, advanced aviation threat identification program, whether it's the Space Force, which has been actually around for a long time, there's budgets that account for these programs.
		And they have to be hidden somewhere.
		I mean, the government's got to spend the money, right?
		So the idea being, what started this thing off was the idea that, well, what if you just literally just did follow the money, try to figure out from the money trails how they were developing these projects?
		And could you identify the various projects that these pots of money go to?
		And it turned out to be really, it's very interesting.
		I'm subjective, of course, but it's pretty good.
		And we don't have a specific air date yet.
		They're being very mum about it, but it'll be on Sunday nights coming to a science channel near you soon.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So with these hypersonic missiles, they can, like, you can't judge from the path that it's gone so far where it's going.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Right, exactly.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They can steer them in real time.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		The idea being is it's not following a known trajectory.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's not following a ballistic trajectory.
unidentified		Fuck.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So it is, you know, and it's the development, the effort to try to develop manned hypersonic flight has got a really fascinating history.
		I mean, and particularly here in the U.S. But we're not there.
		We're not there yet.
		That's, you know, may not happen in our lifetimes just because of the difficulties.
		You talk about, I mean, I interviewed some terrific people during the course of that, which is the best part of this series being out from my perspective.
		You travel around, you see all these interesting things.
		You talk to these fantastic folks, right?
		I mean, some incredible people, a former pilot for the old Blackbird program, right?
		This guy, you know, strap into this thing and get up to altitude on the edge of the atmosphere doing these overflights of Russia and gathering or wherever and gathering intelligence and just the dangers involved in these aircraft, these experimental aircraft that were being designed, and the whole goal being eventually trying to work your way towards this hypersonic manned flight.
		Hey, these people are amazing, right?
		You start talking to some of them and you realize what people are capable of if they can set aside their fear and they have that risk appetite.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's a funny way of putting it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Risk appetite.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		Well, I mean, they just don't think.
		I mean, a test pilot doesn't think the way that you are.
		Well, maybe thinks the way you do, but not the way I do.
		I mean, it's easy to talk to some of these folks.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, I know what you're saying.
		But anyway, so that's what The first person, like the first person who goes up in one of those things.
		Forget about all the testing and all the structural rigidity documents and all the data and everything that's showing you.
		This is absolutely safe.
		Like, it's not.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It's not.
		No, there's nothing safe about it.
		And like that one fellow that I, there was a little bit in the clip where I asked this old guy, looks like somebody's granddad, right?
		You know, do you believe there'll be manned hypersonic flight in your lifetime?
		He says, well, this guy's the story of this guy testing experimental aircraft to try to get to that point and some of the things that he did.
		And it's astounding.
		And you look at him, you think, you're not normal.
		And I talked to his wife, and she said, yeah, it's interesting.
		She's been married to him forever.
		But she says, you know, one of the interesting things you learn about being married to somebody like this, a test pilot or somebody else in a position like that, is, you know, they don't process things the same way.
		They don't necessarily have a lot of empathy because they're just focused on this thing, right?
		And they're not necessarily thinking, well, I don't want to go up there and die because I'd be leaving my family behind and all, you know, it's not in the thought process.
		Anyway, so that's, there you have it, ladies and gentlemen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What do you think about all this stuff about, I mean, the New York Times had articles about it.
		Air Force test pilots have come out talking about encountering flying saucers or unidentified flying objects, particularly Commander Fraver, who had that tablet.
		What do you think about all that?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, we do, you know, I'm a shameless marketer.
		We do an episode on that on ATIP, on the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program.
		And look, again, I always say the same thing.
		I'm not a conspiracy guy.
		I tend to be very cynical about everything.
		But after talking to some of these folks, including Fraver and a handful of others who were both pilots and also were involved in the ATIP program for the U.S. government, for the military, there's things out there that we haven't been able to identify.
		And I'm not jumping on the, I'm not jumping on the alien train, right?
		Necessarily, but what I'm saying is that there are things that extremely experienced pilots, military pilots with significant amounts of experience couldn't figure out, couldn't identify, right?
		And so I'm certainly not going to be smart enough to say, okay, this is what it was.
		Was it a foreign government's experimental aircraft?
		Was it something?
		I don't know.
		But what I do know is that the U.S. government took it seriously enough that they developed their own internal program within the Pentagon to try to sort out the wheat from the chaff, right?
		And say, okay, what do we actually have to worry about?
		In part because it's a national security issue, right?
		If there is an aircraft or if there's something up there that a pilot, a military pilot sees, for instance, that they can't identify, all right, we have an obligation to figure out what that is.
		Because if it's a hostile foreign government's efforts to develop craft that we don't know about or propulsion systems we don't know about, then yes, we should be working on that issue.
		The problem has always been that once you talk about that, then people immediately go, oh, aliens, huh?
		Area 51, you know, and it kind of gets dismissed.
		But there was a much more serious effort than I knew about before I started working on this thing.
		And so I don't know.
		I think I've got an open mind about that.
		It's like that old thing about how can we really be the only people out here or life forms out here.
		I don't know.
		That seems, you know, seems a little obscure for me to believe.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It seems unrealistic.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So, but.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But if I like Fraver, that's the thing.
		When someone who's that rock solid comes out and tells the story and he's not deviating from his story, he's not a guy who's trying to make money.
		He's just, he doesn't have a history of telling fantastic stories.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And he knew what it meant when he came forward and talked about this.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And you've got the gun cameras and you've got the radar operators who also saw the same thing.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They saw it and they said it was actively jamming their radar.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Which they say, what the fuck.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And then the way it moved from 60,000 feet down to like 200 feet in less than a second.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And there's no signs of any propulsion system.
		Yeah.
		No, there's several things about that that leave you scratching your head.
		Again, I'm not making a case one way or the other.
		You know, the point of this is to, again, is to kind of use the money trail as a way to get inside some of these programs.
		And then to the degree that you can without, you know, to the degree that you can talk about things that are declassified.
		You know, not necessarily try to make a case.
		We're not trying to say it is this or it is that, you know, but I think we're presenting a lot of interesting information that, you know, again, with this situation with Fraver as an example, you come away from it and you think, okay, I'm not dismissing anything at this point.
		Just, you know, it would be, I think, foolish to her.
		Anyway, so interesting stuff.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Was that ever anything that came up during your career?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No, no.
		No, I was pretty much straightforward.
		You know, pound the ground through some counterinsurgency operations, counter-narcotics, counter-terrorism operations.
		We never did any counter-alien things.
		So that must have been, that was a different operation.
		That was on a floor we weren't allowed to go onto at the headquarters.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It seems like if we had to admit it was real, if it was something that was real and we were being contacted on a regular basis or at least a semi-regular basis, that would change the way everybody feels about everything.
unidentified		Yes.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Remember when Reagan gave that speech?
		I think it was the United Nations.
		He said, imagine how easily we would come together if we were faced with a threat from an alien world.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And everybody's like, oh my God, he knows something.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The aliens.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		He's about to spill the beans.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's what we were hoping.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No, it's UFO dorks like myself.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, but think about it.
		I mean, think if, you know, if that did come out, which is part of the allure, right, is the idea that the government's been keeping this from us for all these years.
		And you think about what that would mean, not just obviously, oh my God, really, there's something going on out there, but then sort of that breakdown in trust, not that it's not happening already in terms of the government and its ability to play square.
		But yeah, I mean, look, Area 51.
		Area 51 was scouted out for use as an experimental test site for aircraft.
		And it made perfect sense.
		Well, then you get all these experimental aircraft being developed out there and flown some successfully, some not.
		And locals see this shit, locals being a fairly good-sized region because of the distance on these.
		And it's understandable how you start getting some of these stories.
		But having said that, I sat down with Fraver, right?
		We talked about this a lot for this one episode.
		And I talked to several others.
		And yeah, again, I come away and I'm not sure what to think.
		But again, I'm not closing the book on anything at this point.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		See, the way I'd looked at it is if these were unique expeditions from another planet, like or whatever it is, that comes here, some alien spacecraft.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All they'd have to do is come here once or twice.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Get fed up.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, not even that, but I used to have a bit about how Earth is the Tijuana of outer space.
		They only come down here when they're fucked up and they want to see a show.
		That's why they don't stay.
		They just come down here.
		What the fuck?
		Like, no one's doing any science expeditions to Tijuana.
		I'm not going back there.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No way.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Not unless I'm drunk again.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I was just thinking that if they were going to come down here and examine us, I mean, they could just do it a couple of times and people have these stories and everybody has dismisses it.
		Like, where are they?
		Where are they?
		I don't see any aliens.
		Because you really wouldn't.
		And you probably don't, if they're capable of moving at the speed that Fraver described, where it was just impossible to track with the human eye.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		They're not going to view us as a threat.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		No.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		They're not going to.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think they think we're a threat.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think they're just, I don't know.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		They're not going to look at us and say we want to steal their technology.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's the most fascinating thing to me.
		Out of all the weird what-ifs and who could do this and how could that be true, the alien one is the most fascinating.
		Because if that was real, and if we somehow or another one day get some undeniable proof.
		Like the Fraver film, the film footage, the gunner footage, the radar footage, that's pretty goddamn compelling.
		But man, if there was something off the charts.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Well, and that's the problem always is, and people will point to that and say, you know, even the gun camera footage is, you know, look at this.
		It's not hard to follow a little bit.
		It's not clear necessarily what it is I'm looking at.
		But it is more compelling than a lot of the other crap that's been out there.
		So I think it was surprising.
		But yeah, the hypersonics is the, of all the episodes we did, I think the hypersonics is the one that really makes you stand up and think this is pretty fucked up.
		If we get beat to this, you don't want to be in an arms race, but you essentially are.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Who are we in the biggest race with?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Is it Russia?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		China.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		China.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Because China is China.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Russia would say it's theirs.
		It's them.
		They're claiming that they've got abilities.
		But Putin's always getting out ahead of his skis.
		And they've got the GDP of a small European country, right?
		So particularly when oil is down where it is.
		And so China's got the resources, the motivation.
		They view themselves as they want to be at the top of the heap.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They also have technological innovation at a very, very, very high level.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Some of it's stolen.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Did I say that?
		Yeah.
		I guess it's stolen.
		Okay, fine.
		Some of it's stolen.
unidentified		All right.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		A lot of it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But still, they're kind of clever.
		Like, hey, we didn't figure it out, but it's already been figured out.
		Let's just steal it and then improve upon it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, they can reverse engineer the shit out of anything, right?
		And then they do learn from that.
		But, yeah, it's China would be the number one.
		Look, if you go to Washington, the interesting thing about threats, if you look and say, okay, what are the top threats to face the U.S.?
		The top three have never really changed in decades, right?
		Russia, China, Iran.
		And then what fills out the top two after, if you go for the top five, critical infrastructure here in the U.S., which is actually probably at the top.
		I mean, if you say to people in D.C., what worries you the most, they'll say attacks on our critical infrastructure.
		But Russia, China, Iran, they may switch places occasionally, but they're always up there in that top five.
		Terrorism ranks somewhere down lower.
		So China is always going to be an issue.
		And they've been very aggressive, both in terms of acquiring information, economic espionage, their military build out, their desire to kind of take back the Pacific from us.
		And so, yeah, it's our primary competitor.
		But Russia punches above its weight.
		And the narrative about Russia collusion has captured the imagination for three years now.
		And still seems to hold some interest for some Dems in Washington, D.C., no matter what happens.
		And then Iran kind of plays that role because of its nuclear pursuits.
		North Korea is up there to some degree, but it kind of bounces in and out of the top.
		Anyway, for what that's worth.
		But yeah, if suddenly we find that Fraver's right or that there's this contact, suddenly, guess what?
		That's it.
		That's the top concern.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's number one.
		Right, right.
		I mean, the hope is always that if we're about to nuke ourselves into another dimension, that the aliens will come down and go hit dummies.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Just like a 1950s movie.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hey, you fucking idiots.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Stop doing that.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		The Day the Earth Stood Still.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Plato Barada Niktu.
unidentified		Wow.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Remember that?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Look at you.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's pretty impressive, actually.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		The Day the Earth Stood Still is a great fucking movie.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It was a great movie.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's weird.
		It's like a time capsule, right?
		Because what they thought it would look like and the robot, that's just yeah, no, it is.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I love the movie.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I tried to get my boys to sit and watch it not too long ago, and they were like, really, Dad, this is what you spend your time watching.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You know, it was interesting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I was like, a normal thing that the family took the alien in their house.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Come on in, stay with us, strange person from another land.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Why wouldn't you?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, why wouldn't you?
		He's talking to the kid.
		Like, you're not even a little suspicious.
		You don't think this guy might be a creep?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		What's your favorite movie of sort of alien space genre movie?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, I like the best one is Alien, the Sigourney Weaver movie.
		I think the first one.
		Yeah.
		That's most likely what alien life is going to be like.
		Some horrific, parasitic fucking creature that eats everything it finds.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That's that to me seems likely.
unidentified		Yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		That seems more likely.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I remember sitting in the theater when that movie came out, watching it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And when that, when it popped out of that guy's chest, he was, you know, I mean, the entire theater jumped.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		It was just crazy.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		People, it's hard because you watch that movie today and you're watching it having seen all the other movies that it's affected and all the other science fiction genre movies and special effects movies.
		But that movie was special.
		In 1979, when that movie came out, that was a special movie.
		That was a fucking horrifically scary movie.
		And it was realistic.
		Like there was no cut-the-shit scenes.
		Everything seemed legitimate.
		The creature was completely unique.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Weaver was hot.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Hot as fuck.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		I mean, honestly, look at our pictures of Liz Hurley.
		We should be looking at Samantha Weaver.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		And that's a great movie where a woman is the hero and you're not flinching.
		There's no part where you're going, what?
		What is she doing?
		She's kicking everybody's ass.
		Get the fuck out of here.
		That's a movie where we're like, that's a real hero.
		That's a real hero who rises to the occasion in this horrific situation where this ship has been overtaken by an alien.
		I think that there's, I think that there's things out there.
		I don't know if I believe, I want to believe that we've been visited, but I don't know if I believe.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I think there's things out there.
		Yeah, I'm on board with the second part of that as well.
		I don't know.
		I find it hard to believe it would be such a secret.
		And also, knowing the U.S. government, look, I mean, it's harder to find out from the network when they're going to start this show than this getting secrets out of Washington, D.C., right?
		So I'm thinking, yeah, we would have known for now if it had happened, but I do believe there's other shit out there, right?
		I just can't believe we're it.
		No, I don't believe it.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't think we're it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Maybe we're being hopeful.
		I can't believe we're it.
		I mean, but you know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		But I'm also fascinated to think that if they did know that something was here, that they would visit it occasionally, you know, drop in on it occasionally for a scientific expedition, just see what the fuck we're up to.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, unless they just got so disgusted the last time, they just thought that's it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I'm done.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I don't think so.
		We don't get disgusted.
		We don't get disgusted when we go visit baboons.
		When we study baboons, you know, people, scientists return, you know, Robert Sapolsky, he spent many years going back and forth to Africa studying baboons.
		And baboons are boring as fuck compared to people.
		If you weren't a person, if you weren't a person, if you were from some enlightened race a million years advanced from us, you would be so fascinated to come by and look at people.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, although they probably look at us like we're a bunch of shit-flinging monkeys.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		So I think you're probably right.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I mean, wouldn't if we had a time machine, tell me you wouldn't be amazing if there was a time machine, but it could only go back 500,000 years ago to the beginning of man.
		Like the early, you know, whatever ancient hominid that was that was alive back then.
		God damn, that would be fascinating.
		It'd be a fly on the wall and watch these primitive humanoids try to figure out fire and try to figure out hunting and become what we are today.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah.
		There would probably be moments, right?
		I wouldn't want to sit and watch the whole thing because I think that would be boring as shit.
		I mean, come on, just get on with it.
		You know, chip that rock into a circle.
		Do something with it.
		Come on.
		But I think that, yeah, you're right.
		I mean, if there's higher life forms out there, and you'd have to assume they are higher life forms if they're traveling these distances.
		And again, looking at the issues of propulsion systems for hypersonic flight, et cetera.
		Would they look at this bunch of folks down here and think, just not interested?
		I don't know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think at a certain point in time, it would be unnecessary to physically visit.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I feel like maybe.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		They're watching us through the Samsung TVs.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		See, it all comes out.
		That's the thing about it.
		It all comes back around full circle.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		You got to put a tape over that camera.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You do.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I think there's probably.
		You do, right?
		How much?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		You should.
		You should.
		I mean, people should check their, this is, yeah, again, smart TVs, you know, if you've got one that's of recent vintage, check and you'll see there's a little hole along the frame.
		That's the camera.
		There's a microphone set up on an audio system.
		Yeah, just put a piece of tape over.
		That's your low-cost solution.
		You can go in there and adjust and turn it off, but you try figuring that out.
		That's like trying to program your VCR, trying to figure out how to get into your TV, into the settings to change the smart interactivity.
		And then do you also want to trust that that's what's going to happen if you turn it off?
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		So you've got that with Facebook that even if you turn off location, they're still tracking it.
unidentified		Yeah.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, yeah.
		Yeah.
		That's why I say, again, going back to that same old thing, which is like, oh, the government's trying to screw us over.
		They're spying on us.
		You know what?
		Unless you're involved in criminal activity or terrorism, they honestly don't have any interest, but they also don't have the resources and the time available.
		Commercial side of things, though, is different because it drives what they're all about, which is making money.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Especially when you sign those terms of agreements, the terms of use agreements.
		Most people just accept it.
		You don't look through it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Right.
		Well, there's a regulation.
		There's a piece of legislation or whatever that outlaws secretly videoing, I forget what it was.
		It was years and years ago.
		It was decades ago.
		But you give up that right by clicking on agree on those user agreements.
		But I don't know anybody who's ever read a user agreement.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		What is this, Jamie?
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		New York.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		California, California this year.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Consumer Privacy Act allows anyone who resides in a state to access and obtain copies of the data that companies store on them and the right to delete that data and opt out of companies selling or monetizing their data.
unidentified		California leading the way it's only for residents in California, though.
jamie vernon ▲ ● ▼		If you live somewhere else, you can check, but you can't.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Sorry, buddy.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I'm moving from Idaho to California.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, just for good spots in California.
		Yeah, this isn't one of them.
		It's a good spot.
		Just too many people found out about it.
		My worry is more of social media companies now than anything.
		Even in a lot of ways more than the government spying on us.
		I worry about the power that something like Facebook has, the insane amount of influence that they have on people and how through the use of their algorithms they actually instigate arguments and try to get people because that's how people respond and that's what makes people want to click on things and that's that's what generates revenue so their algorithms encourage you know but and it's you know the idea is that they they encourage outrage but they don't really but people like outrage so they encourage you to go seek out like ari shafir did an experiment
		where he used YouTube and he only searched for puppies.
		That's all he searched for, just puppies on YouTube.
		And that's all YouTube would recognize.
		So all they were recommending to him was puppies.
		And he's like, oh, okay.
		So it's really not nefarious.
		It's based entirely on what your needs are or what your interests are.
		But so many people are interested in things that outrage them that it becomes a very profitable thing for them when their algorithm shows these people what they want.
		But the problem is the people itself.
		It's not necessarily the algorithm.
		It's not like the algorithm is some nefarious algorithm is designed to instigate strife.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		No, it's taking advantage of human nature to some degree.
		But it's also, I mean, you've raised a really important point because coming up on this election, people are talking about, oh, my God, they're going to hack in.
		They're going to influence the vote.
		Part of the danger is in the social engineering.
		And it's very clever.
		So if you look at something that just happened, this actually is really interesting, and it's still being investigated.
		But a report came out from a group, Area 1, which is looking at hackers and looking at cybersecurity issues And it's not a particularly well-known group.
		It's not like Kaspersky or some of these others that are out there.
		But they just came out with a report a couple days ago, basically saying that the Russians, a Russian entity, likely the former GRU, the military intelligence group of the Russian intelligence service, hacked into Burisma.
		Now, Burisma is that company in the Ukraine that Hunter Biden was sat on the board of.
		And now you think, oh, Russians hacked into it.
		And so what happens almost immediately when this report comes out saying a Russian intel operation hacked into Burisma recently, as it was sort of becoming an issue and Trump was banging on about it and Hunter Biden and there was talk about holding up Ukrainian aid if you don't investigate the Biden situation.
		So you'd look at this and if you just looked at it on a very simple level, you'd go, wow.
		And I've already seen some of that narrative saying, well, look, the Russians are working on behalf of Trump again.
unidentified		See?
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That's what they're doing.
		They're working on behalf of Trump.
		They're hacking into Burisma, and that's what he was complaining about.
		If you step back and you think about what are the Russians trying to do with all of their hacking efforts, all their social media engineering, they're trying to create dissent.
		So now what have you got?
		Now you're ramping up this story again.
		Now, to what degree Area One's story or report is correct.
		I mean, there's some discussion as to whether it's accurate or not.
		But to that degree that you have to look at everything now with a very skeptical eye, and you have to say, okay, what is the purpose of it?
		Why is this a timed leak of information?
		Did they intend to, in other words, did the Russian Intel service, they don't do anything haphazardly, right?
		Did they do this with the idea that we're going to leak this out now?
		Because now it looks like we're still, you know, we're pushing this whole thing.
		We're trying to help Trump.
		We're going to get that narrative going again, right?
		Because now we're getting into an election cycle.
		It's interesting stuff.
		It's like after Soleimani was smoked, almost immediately after, social media posts, sort of pro, very subtly, but pro-Iranian regime, pro-Suleimani, again,
		very subtle, but in that vein, they spiked over the course of the next 48 hours, massive numbers compared to what had been in the past, of sympathetic, enough to turn people's thoughts, right, to get that narrative going of like, well, oh my God, they assassinated a foreign leader.
		That's all they're looking to do is create that.
		And the Iranian cybersecurity force is increasingly sophisticated.
		Ten years ago, they probably wouldn't have been able to orchestrate sort of that sort of social media work.
		I guess my point being is that we look at things very simplistically, right?
		We look at it because we tend to look at it through this political spectrum saying, I'm right, I'm left, whatever.
		But you have to step back and think, you know, what are they doing?
		What's the purpose of this?
		And maybe it's more complex or layered than just simply accepting what it is that's being said, which happens.
		That's the danger of social media.
		Everyone takes at face value shit that they see on Twitter or whatever.
		And rather than stepping back and going, I wonder if this story is even accurate.
		But somebody will post some bullshit.
		Half the time, whether it's for the left or right doesn't matter, or whether it's from a foreign entity, the state-sponsored effort, you take it and you run with it.
		Next thing you know, it's got 10,000 likes and people are talking about it like it's correct.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Yeah, that's a real problem with today's social media is that these agencies like the Internet Research Agency in Russia did before the 2016 election, they really can stir up dissent with these thousands and thousands of social media accounts that they have, and they can get people thinking in a certain way.
		They can get people to argue things in a certain way.
		And you hear those talking points at these bots and these, you know, these companies that are designed just to stir people up.
		You see those talking points repeated.
		So it is effective.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Oh, no, absolutely.
		And look, the Russians have been doing this years and years ago, decades ago, they were buying off journalists to write favorable articles or articles that they wanted to get the narrative out there for.
		So they would pay off journalists, whether it was overseas or here, wherever it may be.
		And that was old school, right?
		But the point of it, the reasoning behind it is still the same.
		You're trying to affect the narrative.
		You're trying to affect a certain opinion.
		Or you're trying to foment dissent.
		You're trying to create some chaos.
		And you're right.
		Here now, with a lot of the social media that foreign entities are doing, they're trying to take advantage and trying to drive wedges in.
		So you get these things that try to drive and create more of a racial divide, as an example.
		Whatever it is that they can do.
		And sometimes they're doing it just simply to create the chaos.
		Sometimes they're doing it for a more specific focused reason.
		But we're not sophisticated.
		I think we're more aware of it now because it's been in the news and we've been talking about it to some degree.
		But as a population, we're not very sophisticated.
		And so they're still going to take advantage of it.
		And it's not just the Russians.
		Any nation that's got the resource or the ability and somewhat motivation and sees it in their own best interest, they're going to be engaged in this.
		So I have a cyber unit that's doing this sort of thing.
		So I don't know where it's going to go, but you worry about sort of the impact that it has.
		It's not the idea that they're going in there to voting machines and switching up data.
		I mean, frankly, we should be going to a paper-based system.
		If I was in charge, I would say, that's it.
		No more paperless voting systems.
		Get that shit out of here.
		We're not going to rely on the internet.
		You know what they're doing in Iowa for the caucuses?
		It's all going to be Internet-based voting, reporting for the caucuses in Iowa.
		But again, you think that whether it's independent hackers or state-sponsored from China or Russia, wherever, of course they're targeting this, and they're putting a great deal of resource into it.
		And they've already probably mapped out the infrastructure.
		So hey, get back to the old days.
		If you're targeting a terrorist organization and you start having success picking up comms and communications and gathering signals intelligence on them, first thing they do is throw their phones away and go back to the old system of, look, I'm going to handwrite some message.
		I'm going to hand it to my cousin.
		He's going to hand it to his cousin.
		And that's all.
		That's our communication system from now on.
		So we should dumb down and go back to the old days and just do a paper system, which takes longer and is a pain in the ass, but yeah.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Can't hack it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Can't hack it.
		Yeah.
		Anyway, that's just me.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Well, listen, Mike.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		I went back to my Bernie Sanders voice there.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		It's always great having you in here, man.
		Tell people again when your show.
		Well, you don't have an air date.
unidentified		I don't know.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		They're keeping you mum.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		When you tell me, we'll tell everybody.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		That sounds good.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Let everybody know.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		They can get a hold of you on Twitter and Instagram at MB Company, man, is the Twitter thing.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		And yeah, thank you.
		I'm always amazed at how fast the time goes.
		I'm sure you're not, but I'm amazed.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I am still amazed.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		Thanks.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Get out to Boise, right?
unidentified		Okay.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Everybody's waiting.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		I'll do it.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		All right, man.
joe rogan ▲ ● ▼		All right.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Take care.
mike baker ▲ ● ▼		Thank you, man.

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