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Oct. 29, 2019 - The Joe Rogan Experience
01:59:29
Joe Rogan Experience #1372 - Kevin Smith
Participants
Main voices
j
joe rogan
55:32
k
kevin smith
01:01:27
Appearances
Clips
j
jamie vernon
00:39
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Speaker Time Text
unidentified
Headphones.
kevin smith
Do I need them?
joe rogan
I like them.
kevin smith
I mean, just to gauge my own voice?
joe rogan
You don't need them.
kevin smith
We can not have them.
Call-ins, right?
joe rogan
No, no.
No, we don't need them.
I like how you're mocking me with that marijuana.
kevin smith
Come on, man.
unidentified
Just openly.
kevin smith
It's your sober October.
joe rogan
Yes, I know, man.
kevin smith
It's my un-sober lifetime.
joe rogan
When was the last time you were sober?
How many days have you ever done it?
kevin smith
What a great question.
Let me see.
When was the last time?
It was somewhere I was on the road.
I couldn't get my hands on weed.
Probably when I was in London or something like that.
That's usually an overseas thing.
Right.
And I went like two days.
And you know...
joe rogan
It's like I did my time, man.
kevin smith
It felt like...
Oh, I get it.
And I remember what this was like.
unidentified
Right.
kevin smith
But like...
Why bother?
Like, you know, post heart attack, I feel like I'm living on borrowed time anyway.
So I'm like, well, I'm going to spend that time as well as I possibly can.
And generally in a THC drenched condition, this is not a brag and I'm not like, kids, you should try this at home.
But like, I only...
I'm not ingesting when I sleep.
So, like, I wake, wake.
Yeah.
Really?
joe rogan
All day?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Is there anything...
kevin smith
Is that...
Don't say it like that.
The way you're like, all day.
Like, judgy.
I mean, just because it's Sober October, you'd be joining me right now.
joe rogan
Yes, I would.
But I'm always...
kevin smith
If it was like, smoke this member November.
joe rogan
I'm always in awe of people who do go 24-7.
kevin smith
I think...
Really?
Because I only do it because I thought you did.
unidentified
Do you need to...
kevin smith
I was trying to impress you.
What?
Am I out here alone?
I was under the impression, you too, I know you do a lot more and shit.
Well, let's talk about that real quick.
I get to interview you for a minute or two.
I've been in here in jumps and spurts, and in those jumps and spurts, you have become the most powerful fucking broadcaster on the planet.
Like, crazy popular everywhere.
You can crack a smile.
You know I'm writing shit.
Don't go hard on me.
joe rogan
No, it's weird.
kevin smith
Why?
joe rogan
Can't you enjoy it?
kevin smith
Come on, motherfucker.
My whole life, I wanted to be at the top of something.
You are at it.
I was at the top of podcasts for like a minute back when we started and shit back in the old Fleshlight days.
But like, you are now beyond.
You've transcended the fucking medium.
You gotta tell me...
Don't wince!
You gotta tell me it feels good.
Otherwise, what am I striving for in my career?
And to be honest, I don't really strive if you've seen the shit I do.
But like, there is an idea of like...
You know, oh man, at the top, it must be amazing.
And like, no bullshit, you're absolutely at the top.
unidentified
You had fucking Snowden on your podcast, dude.
joe rogan
Everything feels exactly the same, but different.
kevin smith
Explain.
joe rogan
It's still fun.
I still enjoy talking to people like you, and I had my friend Kyle Kalinsky on earlier.
I've had some really interesting people on.
I've always enjoyed talking to interesting people, so that's the same.
Everything's the same in that regard.
It's different in that it's very obvious when I go places that it's having more of an impact.
Because you're the same person, right?
But the world changes.
Like the impact.
You put out the signal and the world sort of changes and shifts.
kevin smith
Right, right.
joe rogan
More lovers, more haters, more this, more that.
kevin smith
Everything just increases.
It becomes more.
joe rogan
Yeah, it becomes more.
It becomes weird.
People want to interview you.
People want to do things.
And I don't do any of those things.
kevin smith
Can I tell a quick story?
unidentified
Yeah.
kevin smith
Because I never want to cut you off because I could listen to you.
You're just a shame and you're a guru.
I love coming here.
And I have loved coming here, but now there's this different onus to it because it's like, I better use my time wisely.
Fucking Bernie Sanders is next.
You know what I'm saying?
It's nice.
But this is how authentic Rogan is.
So we're making Jay and Silent Bob reboot.
And I reach out to, like, everybody I know about being in the movie.
And, you know, even the people that are like, oh, man, I don't want to go to New Orleans.
That's far.
I'm like, you do remember I almost died of a fucking heart attack.
Like, all right, I'm coming.
I guilted, like, everybody into coming.
So, Jordan, who's our producer, Jason Mews' wife.
She runs our company.
She's like, I reached out to Joe's manager and he said he's not interested.
I was like, you know what?
Let me handle this.
I'll reach out to Joe.
I got Joe on direct.
I don't need a manager, man.
Some 10% are fucking getting between me and my boy and shit.
So I fucking emailed or texted Joe and I was like, hey man, we're making Reboot.
Do you want to come play?
And just flat out on Front Street, as true as it can be, he goes, I hate that acting shit.
That's what you wrote.
And you were like, I'm flattered, but I don't want to do that.
He's like, I'll talk to you about it when it's done.
I was like, alright.
That's how authentic you are.
You know you're in a place right now where you're like, can't fucking ruin my credibility with shit like acting anymore.
joe rogan
It's not I don't like doing it.
It takes too much time.
I don't have a whole day.
kevin smith
And that's not critical.
And that was not me going, look, I thought it was fantastic.
I thought it was adorable, honestly.
joe rogan
I'm trying to do less things.
kevin smith
Why?
Tell me why.
joe rogan
Because I do too much.
Between all the podcasts that I do, doing commentary for the UFC, doing stand-up comedy, there's a lot of things.
kevin smith
Those three things you've been doing for the last fucking decade, bro.
joe rogan
There's a lot of things.
kevin smith
I mean, they've all increased, perhaps.
I'm not in the fighting world, so I don't know if your jobs there have exponentially increased.
I knew you were always a big part of it.
joe rogan
No, I've actually cut that back a lot.
And the more I've cut that back, the more I cut things back, the happier I am.
kevin smith
And then stand-up, has that increased?
joe rogan
Stand-up has not cut back at all.
kevin smith
So this has increased?
joe rogan
This has increased quite a bit, yeah.
I'm doing six podcasts this week.
And then I'm flying to New York on Thursday, and then I'm doing Artie Lang on Friday in New York.
So that would be a seventh podcast.
We're going to carry that one over to the next week.
But that does not leave any room for trips to New Orleans to do a movie.
kevin smith
No doubt.
joe rogan
It doesn't leave any room to do anything.
I get all these weird requests to do things that just are not interesting.
I don't want to do them.
And yours is one of the most interesting things.
kevin smith
Believe me, I'm not putting on your spot going, like, why didn't you come?
joe rogan
I just don't have time.
kevin smith
It was the most on-brand fucking response, and it was also a lesson in like, pfft, let me reach out.
This manager knows nothing, and the manager knew exactly.
joe rogan
My manager is a rare thing.
She knows exactly how I feel about everything.
I say no to everything, man.
I don't want to do anything.
kevin smith
You and I started podcasting roughly around the same time, and it never occurred to me when I started, and I wonder if it occurred to you, to do Seasons.
joe rogan
No.
unidentified
Right?
kevin smith
Like once you just turned on the machine, the machine just kept going and there's this, there's a gaping maw.
Like how do you tell an audience that's used to access all the time?
Like, we're going to do it in a clip and then take a bunch of time off and stuff like that.
joe rogan
No, like a television show has seasons?
Yeah.
kevin smith
And they seem to do that.
Like I remember when Serial had like, hey, we're this many and we're done.
I'm like, oh, I never thought of that.
joe rogan
Yeah.
kevin smith
That's a novel approach.
joe rogan
But that's a corporate approach, right?
Explain.
Well, it's like the same type of people that would put together a television show.
I mean, that's their approach.
That's the approach that someone who was doing something along those lines and then transitioned into podcasting, that's how they would approach it.
The way they would approach a Netflix show or an HBO show or whatever it is.
kevin smith
Have you encountered a bunch of that?
Again, you've been in the space for quite some time.
Now podcasts, of course, it's crazy crowded.
Everybody does it, but...
The business, my industry, or the industry that I sometimes work in, use podcasting like proof of concept now.
So you go into some place with a pitch for a TV show, and they're like, hmm, maybe.
Why don't you try it out as a podcast?
Really?
That's what's happening a lot.
joe rogan
That's interesting.
kevin smith
I met somebody, who was it?
A friend of mine who worked at Miramax with me back in the day.
She's gone on.
She's producing.
She put together a podcast package where she took it to a TV network and the TV network wasn't interested.
She was like, this is a good concept, man.
I'm going to sell it.
I think they sold it to iHeart or something like that.
Six-figure thing.
It was like 100 grand.
I'm like, they're paying 100 grand for podcasts now?
And they're like, no, no, that's just what that person got paid to bring in that show.
It's a big, big, crazy industry.
And so I've been looking for the last year and going like, Well, clearly, he must be approached on the regular to do this for somebody.
And clearly, every time you're like, why would I bother?
Like, I could do exactly what I want.
joe rogan
I've definitely been approached a few times.
kevin smith
Had to be.
Like, as I've watched the star rise and rise, I'm like, oh my god.
Like, nobody's snatched him up yet?
And then I realized, of course, there have been overtures.
But of course, if you've...
For those who've never been in this place, it's like, why would you slap a logo on it?
It's your own.
You built your own fucking thing from scratch.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, I'm pretty outside of the Hollywood thing now.
You know, I don't really...
kevin smith
But there's a market for outside of the Hollywood thing.
Like, there is some company that would be like, we will pay you.
And I suspect you've been offered crazy fucking money and had the integrity to be like, no, I still like what I'm doing.
I like this.
joe rogan
I'm not changing shit.
I mean, it would have to be...
kevin smith
You make me cry.
joe rogan
But I don't have to.
kevin smith
Bro, that's so punk, right?
That's so indie film.
That's so, like...
Like, you get it.
A lot of people, like, built their ships and then instantly tried to sell them.
And, like, this was one thing that, like, you and I get emotional about this shit.
You and I, like, were there for the beginning of something.
We weren't there for the beginning of stand-up.
You're great at it.
You weren't there for the beginning of UFC and shit.
But, like, podcasting was something like you were there for the beginning of, I was there for the beginning of, and now it's saturated.
joe rogan
Yeah, we were first wave.
There was a couple guys before me, like Corolla was before me.
I was pre-Corolla.
kevin smith
I go pre-Marin and Corolla.
joe rogan
Adam Curry.
kevin smith
Adam Curry is the absolute first.
He's the podfather.
joe rogan
He's the number one.
He creates it.
Have you had him on here?
No, I have not.
I don't know him.
kevin smith
I know, but...
joe rogan
Where does he live?
kevin smith
I have no idea.
Think about it.
Podcasting changed your life.
Talk to the guy who was the first guy that was like, I think this is a good idea.
joe rogan
I think he named it.
kevin smith
Last time I was talking to you, I was like, you gotta get Macaulay Culkin on.
And you did.
joe rogan
He was great.
kevin smith
Wasn't he fantastic?
joe rogan
He's such a trip.
kevin smith
I got another catch for you.
joe rogan
Okay.
kevin smith
It's good.
And it's gonna sound promotional, but it kind of is.
But at the same time, it isn't.
But I want to tell this dude's stories.
But like, there's a company called Caviar Gold makes weed.
I know it's Sober October.
They make our weed.
joe rogan
Well, I only have a couple more days.
kevin smith
Oh, I'm going to leave you with this, and you're going to be in heaven.
This is a sativa.
You're going to be able to have this.
Snoochie Boochies is a sativa.
joe rogan
Oh, that's hilarious.
Is that a box of weed?
kevin smith
Yeah, pre-rolls.
joe rogan
That's outrageous.
kevin smith
I took the first row, though, to be fair.
I smoked it myself.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ.
kevin smith
That's the sativa.
That's the wake-up weed.
You smoke that, you're ready to clean house, record podcasts.
It's also pumped up with CBDs.
My man Mike at Caviar controls.
He's like Swamp Thing.
He controls the plant.
He works with distillates.
So he can take your weed and make a super weed.
So that's the sativa.
It smells like...
Tell me what it smells like.
joe rogan
It smells like a heart attack.
kevin smith
No, man.
It smells like maple.
I said, he goes, what do you want it to smell and taste like?
I said, breakfast.
joe rogan
Oh, it does smell like maple.
You gotta get it.
kevin smith
Right up there.
joe rogan
It smells like one of them McDonald's McGriddles.
kevin smith
Yes.
Yes, bitch.
It's like smoking a McGriddle.
joe rogan
How'd they do that?
kevin smith
He's a genius.
This was a dude who was like, I couldn't get high off weed anymore.
I had to figure out how to make weed better so I could get high off it.
That's the sativa.
And he's gonna be a billionaire, man.
But you gotta have him on the show, dude, because his story is like...
Fascinating.
joe rogan
His weed growing story?
kevin smith
How he got to this place in life.
It made me want to be in business with him.
I was like, this guy, he's got a movie in him.
So that's the sativa.
This is the indica.
And this shit is deep on the THC. It's called Snoogans.
joe rogan
This is indica.
kevin smith
Yes.
So black.
joe rogan
You're going dark.
kevin smith
So this is like 45% THC right here.
Smoke.
joe rogan
45%?
kevin smith
Yes, son.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
What in the fuck, man?
kevin smith
It's amazing.
I smoked this with Be Real and I watched them go down hard.
joe rogan
Be Real went down?
You took Be Real down?
kevin smith
I did the smoke box.
I've lived the longest episode ever.
And then this is the hybrid and the hybrid is called Berserker.
I'm going to leave you guys these three boxes.
As soon as Sober October is done, smoke them, give them out.
The guy who we do the weed with, I've been smoking his weed for like two years, this Caviar Gold weed.
I love it.
It's insane.
It's the weed you smoke if you're a stoner and you want to get stoned.
So I hit them up because we got in...
45%?
45%.
joe rogan
What did it used to be?
kevin smith
It's like werewolf weed.
It'll change it.
What it used to be.
I mean, most pre-rolls, you go buy an expensive pre-roll, 20 to 25 range.
joe rogan
What is it like when you go to England and you take two days off?
What is that feeling?
kevin smith
You sit there and go like, boy, everything sure is crisp.
Does it need to be?
It's not bad.
It's not like, I'm jonesing, I'm pounding tables.
I don't have that kind of relationship with it.
But it is kind of like...
Remember, I wore a hockey jersey forever.
A lot of people were like, you don't want to wear something else?
I'm like, eh.
I've been married for like 20 years.
I dig in.
Once something works for me, I stick with it.
Went vegan, still vegan.
Never really altered since that happened and stuff.
joe rogan
You did that post-heart attack, right?
kevin smith
Post-heart attack.
The day after the heart attack, because my kid made me.
My kid was like, she'd been vegan for a couple years.
And she was scared because she'd never been through anything.
A real first world kid.
Wonderful kid, but no tragedies in life and shit like that.
We did well as parents.
joe rogan
Are you getting regular blood worked on?
kevin smith
I just went and saw my doctor two months ago.
Dr. Leidenheim.
And did the stress test where you're on the treadmill and you go up and stuff.
And then they take all the blood.
And he was like, whatever you're doing, keep doing it.
It's amazing.
He said, I can see your heart because they take pictures of your heart.
He's like, I know where the heart attack was, so I know exactly where to look.
He's going, if I didn't know where to look, you would never tell.
He's like, right now there's no lasting damage.
Keep going.
So I hike Runyon every day.
joe rogan
Nice.
kevin smith
I vegan out like a year and a half ago because of the kid.
And I haven't really strayed back, so I'm all plant-based.
And I'm intermittent faster.
I don't eat breakfast anymore.
I'm not going to be like, breakfast is propaganda, but it kind of is.
You don't really need to eat that early in the day.
You know what?
That's untrue.
Thin people maybe do.
Guy my size certainly didn't need to be eating breakfast.
Could have skipped a few meals.
joe rogan
I do the same.
I take 16 hours off.
kevin smith
You wait to break the fast.
Do you pick a time or is it as deep in the day as you can go?
joe rogan
No, just 8 and 16. I just do it based on...
kevin smith
So then what's the soonest you eat then, generally speaking?
joe rogan
It depends, but I've gone as late as like 1, 2 in the afternoon.
kevin smith
Yeah, that's why I try to make it till noon the earliest and like by 2 I'm ready, I'm ravenous.
joe rogan
Yeah, I think it's totally doable.
Your body gets really used to it too.
What I generally do is I get up in the morning, I'll have a cup of coffee and then I work out.
And either I run or I do yoga or I do something.
Whatever I do is pretty intense.
And then I do podcasts generally around noon.
That's when I start the day.
And so I've already been up for hours and hours.
And sometimes I don't even eat until after the podcast.
Sometimes I'll eat at like three times.
kevin smith
Have you gone days where you don't eat at all?
joe rogan
No.
kevin smith
I've done that.
joe rogan
I burn off too many calories, I think.
kevin smith
Well, you also work out every day.
I just have the hike and stuff.
But I love days where I can totally skip all the way down because the body is still feeding off of stored energy and stuff like that.
But I'm also, you know, I'm a WW guy, ambassador.
So that made, like, my reduced eating made, like, staying on points, like, insanely easy.
joe rogan
Right, right.
And are you just maintaining now?
Are you trying to continue to lose?
kevin smith
Now I'm maintaining.
Like, I'm on the road for the next, like, 60, well, we have 63 dates with Jay and Silent Bob Reboot.
We've just been in Jersey, Chicago, Detroit.
Grand Rapids, St. Paul, St. Louis, Columbus.
That's the first leg.
And now we go to Texas and stuff.
We're doing that for like 62 weeks.
joe rogan
Is this a publicity tour?
kevin smith
We're just touring the movie.
Rather than like, hey, we'll put the movie out in a thousand theaters.
We don't have that kind of marketing money.
So instead, me and Jay are just touring with the movie.
Oh, okay.
Essentially, it's like a comedy tour or like a small punk band tour.
We go to a theater, we set up shop, we sold tickets in advance, a lot of the tours sold out, rebootroadshow.com for tickets.
And we intro the movie, watch the movie with them, and then hang out afterwards, Q&A and shit like that.
And for me, it's like, you know, it's a pretty grueling schedule every day in a different city, but every day I get to like sit and watch the movie with the exact audience it was made for.
It's not like walking into a multiplex that's playing your movie, and even if it's crowded, you're like, man, I hope We're good to go.
With the movie, essentially.
unidentified
Right, right, right.
kevin smith
And, you know, we've just taken the movie and kind of eventized it by being like, hey, man, come watch it with us, because you do that.
joe rogan
That's very cool.
kevin smith
And in a world where people would come see me and Jay anyway, talk about the old movies, like, and pay 50 to 100 bucks, we're like, they'd pay the same thing, see us bring a new fucking movie.
So it's been incredibly successful, man.
Like, big sold-out shows.
We've had to, like, double up on shows.
But watching it with the audience is, like...
It's fantastic.
joe rogan
Do you guys do a Q&A? Yeah, afterwards.
kevin smith
We share the stage, which is difficult because I tend to, as you see, blah, blah, blah.
So I've tried to hold back to let him kind of take front and center during the Q&A because he's the star of the movie and he's amazing in the fucking flick.
Like I tell people at the beginning of every night, I'm like, we only get to make this journey and we've been doing it for 25 years since Clerks.
Because like I met a boy who said dirty things to me and I said, come with me, we're going to Hollywood.
And like I met a true American original, Jason Mews, who I said, I think you're funny.
I wonder if people would find you funny outside of New Jersey.
And like somebody should put you in a movie one day.
And then one day I was that person.
And he was our passport and has been our passport to the world.
The guy least likely.
The guy that was never going to get out of Highlands, you know, on his own accord.
But like, simply by being like, wait, say these things here on camera.
Now we've got a movie.
Like, he opened up the entire world to us.
So it's his finest hour in this movie.
Like, he's funny as fuck, man.
He carries the whole show.
But...
He also gets to be emotional, because it's about him finding out he's got a long-lost daughter and shit, so it's a father-daughter movie.
And so there are moments in the movie where people cry, and not because they're like, Kevin fucked up another movie!
They're like, oh my god, he's getting me there as an actor.
It's been fucking thrilling to watch.
So every night, it was thrilling to watch when we made it.
Every night I get to sit back and watch the audience take it in.
And I'm used to making comedy, and you want people laughing, otherwise if it's silence, it's death.
But there are moments in the movie where, like, it's quiet, and that's a good thing.
And, like, you know, I still clench my asshole, because in any silence, you're always like, you just need one heckler to be like, fuck this blows, or whatever, and the audience breaks, or whatever.
So far, man, it's been, like, really fucking beautiful.
joe rogan
You just put the seat out there, though, the fuck this blows seat.
unidentified
I know.
kevin smith
Fuck, as it fell out of my mouth, I was like, you just damned yourself.
We're going to Houston tomorrow night.
Like, I left the tour...
Because Joe was gracious enough to be like, hey man, you come in on the 29th.
And we had a day off and stuff.
So I left.
I was in Columbus last night.
This is a place called Studio 35. They were like, tell Joe Rogan we want him.
I was like, to be fair.
joe rogan
He's from Columbus.
kevin smith
Everybody wants.
Do you know Studio 35?
unidentified
Indianola.
kevin smith
Fucking on Indianola, yes!
Holy shit, man.
Fuck, I was just there.
unidentified
I was there a week ago.
What's crazy?
kevin smith
Were you there a week ago?
So you know that theater?
It's a fantastic fucking theater.
I always know Columbus as that theater, as that street.
And then we actually went into the city, and I was like, they built a whole city around that little corner and shit.
They're like, that's been here forever.
Did you know, and you must know, Columbus is the swinger capital of the United States of America?
unidentified
What?
jamie vernon
Columbus is a lot of things.
kevin smith
Is that what it says on the license plate?
jamie vernon
Maybe, yeah.
kevin smith
Columbus is a lot of things.
joe rogan
It probably should.
kevin smith
We were staying there.
We went to do a show at Studio 35 years ago for the first time.
Almost 10 years ago, we've known these cats.
Great people.
And they put us up in a house.
The house was neatly appointed, but nobody lived there.
Even as an Airbnb, it was just very clean and shit.
And so when we got back to the place, they were like, do you like the house?
And we were like, yeah, it's nice, man.
It's in the middle of the woods, away from everything, down a beaten path and shit.
And we were like, yeah, it's nice.
And they were like, it's the swinger house.
And I'm like, what do you mean?
They're like, that's the house where the swingers go to fuck.
They were like, didn't you notice all the boxes of tissues?
And I realized every fucking room had a box of tissues in the corner.
And I was like, why would that happen here in Columbus, Ohio?
And they were like, Columbus, Ohio is the swinger capital of the United States of America.
joe rogan
You should go back with a black light.
kevin smith
And check it all out.
Look at this Jackson Pollock motherfucker.
joe rogan
Find out what's happening, where the splatters are.
kevin smith
I think I remember that night sleeping on my jacket on top of the bed.
Because I was like, you know, I got my own cum to deal with.
But have you ever heard that or is that horseshit?
jamie vernon
That's where Hustler started was in Columbus.
Downtown Columbus is where Larry Flint started Hustler.
joe rogan
I think we're fucking on to something, man.
Columbus is the birth of a lot of fucking places.
unidentified
That's what he said.
joe rogan
You open up the door for Jamie, he's got conspiracy theories that go for days.
jamie vernon
This would change the whole show, so...
kevin smith
I don't care, man.
Columbus is this hidden jewel.
joe rogan
It's a great place.
kevin smith
It is really, really cool.
joe rogan
It's a great place.
I love it.
kevin smith
But it's a great fucking theater, man.
I've yet to see any proof of swinger activity myself.
joe rogan
I recorded my 2009 Comedy Central special at the, well it was a Spike TV special at the time, at the Southern Theater in Columbus.
Yeah.
kevin smith
With a good crowd.
joe rogan
Fuck yeah, it was great.
I love Columbus.
I love it.
Last time I was there it was like what?
A year and a half ago?
jamie vernon
Yeah, September.
joe rogan
The Schottenstein?
jamie vernon
About a year ago, yeah.
joe rogan
About a year.
kevin smith
They came out for us last night, man.
joe rogan
Fuck, the place is awesome.
kevin smith
They sold out two shows for us.
Really lovely people.
unidentified
I love it.
kevin smith
So we go to Houston tomorrow.
First show in Houston sold out.
joe rogan
I'm there in a couple weeks.
kevin smith
Are you?
joe rogan
Yeah.
kevin smith
Sell me a few tickets.
We got to sell like 20 tickets in that second Houston show because we've not had a show that isn't sold out.
Like we played the Fillmore in Detroit that was sold out.
joe rogan
When is the show?
kevin smith
There's one, the one in Houston, Spar Night, but then there's San Diego, there's Chattanooga.
That's been a difficult one to sell.
You ever been to Chattanooga?
joe rogan
No, I've never been.
kevin smith
We posted a show and it was moving and we were like, alright, we'll add a second show.
And then both of the shows kind of stalled a certain place.
So Chattanooga, Tennessee.
joe rogan
How active are you on social media?
kevin smith
Pretty active.
Like I post every day on Instagram and every day on Twitter.
I kind of keep those active.
What's the new one that all the kids do?
joe rogan
TikTok.
kevin smith
Yeah.
Do you do TikTok?
joe rogan
Nope.
kevin smith
Because we're men.
joe rogan
I'm not men.
kevin smith
Like we're fucking butch.
Just we're old men.
unidentified
Fucking men.
We're old.
joe rogan
We're old.
kevin smith
That's what it is.
joe rogan
How old are you?
kevin smith
49. 52. Really?
unidentified
Yeah.
Old as fuck.
kevin smith
So like, not for nothing, but like, if that's 52 and this is 49, what were we worried about?
joe rogan
We were worried about what 52 was when we were in high school.
kevin smith
Which was what?
joe rogan
Dead people.
People who didn't take vitamins, people who didn't exercise regularly, people who weren't on top of it.
kevin smith
Maybe I'm just biased because the older I get, I want to believe this, but didn't 50 look older when you were a kid?
joe rogan
Oh, 100% did.
kevin smith
When my dad was 50, I was like, oh, fuck, all right, there's 50. Yeah.
joe rogan
The dudes look different now.
It's health.
It's diet.
Diet's a big factor.
Getting enough nutrients.
Not smoking cigarettes.
That's a huge factor.
kevin smith
Weed.
Smoking weed instead.
That's true.
I'll put cigarettes down.
joe rogan
Weed probably does a lot for you.
It relaxes you for sure.
kevin smith
Weed saved my life.
joe rogan
It for sure reduces inflammation.
And CBD. I am a giant proponent of CBD. I take CBD every day.
kevin smith
I don't want this to sound like a commercial, but that sativa is pumped up with 30% CBD. He jacks up the CBD. So when you smoke it, you're healing something as you smoke it, but it's a nice crisp pie.
That sounds like a commercial, but it's good.
joe rogan
Yeah, I take it in drop form.
I drink this stuff, Kill Cliff, which is a drink that has CBD in it.
I just think it's a miracle anti-inflammatory elixir from nature.
I'm a huge believer in it.
It alleviates anxiety.
It's good for so many people with arthritis and so many issues.
My friend Dave Foley, his hands were all fucked up, man.
He had real bad arthritis.
And now they move freely and easily.
Newsradio Dave Foley.
Yeah, Newsradio Dave Foley has full use of his hands because of CBD. Because of the CBDs.
kevin smith
Yeah.
He deserves full use of his hands.
That dude's a genius.
joe rogan
He does.
He is.
kevin smith
You saw him work.
unidentified
Yes, yes.
joe rogan
I have to tell you.
kevin smith
Like, that's something I usually say to people.
Like, Dave Foles is a genius, and you've got to back it up.
But I can just say it to you, and you're like, bro, I told you.
joe rogan
He was the guy.
kevin smith
Are you seriously opening a fucking beer with a knife?
Look how butch you are.
Oh, my God.
That's so Rambo, bro.
joe rogan
It's fucking nuts.
It's for people to think I'm cheating.
It's a Heineken Zero alcohol.
kevin smith
And is that...
So Sober October includes...
I guess it includes...
It's not just weed sober.
joe rogan
Everything.
kevin smith
It's not sex sober, is it?
joe rogan
Oh, no.
That's not sobriety.
kevin smith
I thought you were going straight edge or some shit.
joe rogan
That's gross.
kevin smith
Wow.
And not for charity, not for king or country, just for fucking...
joe rogan
Well, we started it off...
What happened was it started off four years ago with a weight loss challenge.
She and my friend Tom Segura and my friend Bert Kreischer.
And I kind of hosted the weight loss challenge.
They had to see who could lose the most.
That's Bert.
Who could lose the most over the course of a month.
And the winner, I sent him to a basketball game and Ari sent him to...
What did Ari send him to?
Some other...
Yeah, they went to some, you know, they had a good time, right?
So that was one year.
Then the next year, we all decided to join in.
During the whole weight loss challenge, Bert kept drinking.
We're very concerned about Bert's health.
And so we're like, man, Bert's gonna fucking die if we don't get this motherfucker to stop drinking.
Do you think he could stop drinking?
And I said, alright, how about we all do it?
We'll all go sober for the whole...
Well, I didn't even know that Sober October is like a thing.
People have been doing it for years.
unidentified
Is that right?
joe rogan
Long before us.
kevin smith
You were like, we just invented a rhyme.
And they're like, no, we didn't.
joe rogan
It was just pure coincidence that we started...
The first weight loss thing was October as well, right?
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
Was it?
jamie vernon
I think it started close to the end of the Thanksgiving time period or something like that.
unidentified
What?
jamie vernon
Because the weigh-in was in January, I believe.
joe rogan
Was it?
jamie vernon
Yeah.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
Well, for whatever reason, we decided to do it during October.
By dumb luck, there was a thing already called Sober October.
We literally didn't even know when we started doing it.
So we did it, and we incorporated a challenge.
We had to do 15 hot yoga classes.
And everybody didn't believe that everyone was sober.
Ari said he was going to drug test me.
jamie vernon
I think it happened, too, because Ari was gone, and we had to do that, like, another podcast to talk about the Welch of the Bet.
And that was probably, like, in September.
And then it was like, oh, well, October is next month.
Sober October.
joe rogan
Oh, maybe that makes sense.
Yeah, because Ari was gone for, like, four months in Asia.
So...
So we had sobriety for a month plus 15 90-minute hot yoga classes over the month.
So you had to do basically a yoga class every other day.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Which was great.
So we did that.
And then last year we said, okay, we'll do it again.
But this year we're going to do a fitness challenge.
That got really crazy.
So that year, it was a competition.
And that year, we were working out five, six, seven hours a day.
I set off the fire alarm in my gym for my sweat, literally, from steam coming off my body.
Set off the fire alarm.
kevin smith
Is that possible?
joe rogan
It's possible.
I have a video.
kevin smith
Is it seriously?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
Yes.
kevin smith
So you got your body heated up so much of the fire alarm.
joe rogan
My home gym is essentially a little smaller than this room.
And it has, you know, elliptical machine in a cage and squat rack and all that jazz.
And I set off the fucking fire alarm from steam because I did five, six hours on the elliptical machine.
I watched this.
kevin smith
There was a...
joe rogan
Yeah, look at that.
kevin smith
That's it?
unidentified
Flashback?
joe rogan
You can hear it if you listen to it.
kevin smith
Oh, my God.
Look at the fog.
Oh, there's the alarm.
joe rogan
That puddle on the ground, that's all my sweat.
kevin smith
Are you kidding?
joe rogan
Nope.
So we decided not...
Why do this?
Well, because I'm going to win.
kevin smith
And did you?
joe rogan
I'm not going to lose.
Of course I won.
I'm not going to lose.
We were going crazy.
We were going crazy.
And then we all had to sit down this year and say, we can't do this again.
Because this year...
We only had to do 10 classes.
So whether it's yoga or Tom's doing boxing and we took some tactical gun courses and Tom's also done some weightlifting.
Ari's done some meditation classes.
It's all just bettering yourself and you have to read 500 pages of books, you know, whatever book, 500 pages.
So that's the challenge this month.
Easier.
kevin smith
All of that is just not on my menu.
joe rogan
Exhausted.
kevin smith
Yeah, my god!
It's just...
Like, October should be a fun month.
We're heading into Halloween and stuff like that.
joe rogan
Right.
kevin smith
Fall, Samhain, shit like that.
And it just seems like a lot of...
joe rogan
What is this?
unidentified
What'd you say?
kevin smith
Samhain.
joe rogan
Samhain?
kevin smith
A little bit of metal.
joe rogan
What's Samhain?
kevin smith
Samhain, remember?
Samhain is the end of summer, the festival of Samhain.
joe rogan
I have no idea what that is.
I've never heard that before.
kevin smith
They talk about it on Halloween.
Pull up the clip.
joe rogan
The movie Halloween?
kevin smith
From John Carpenter's Halloween.
Donald Pleasance tells a story about Samhain.
That was the other name for Halloween.
joe rogan
Really?
kevin smith
And there's a metal band called Samhain.
unidentified
Season of the Dead.
kevin smith
But the notion of getting all dry and shit is just...
I mean, I get it.
joe rogan
You're not interested.
Do you drink?
kevin smith
No.
And I never really did...
I never had a taste for it.
I was obviously a sugar guy.
That was definitely my vice.
joe rogan
Well, since I've bet you, you probably lost more than 100 pounds.
kevin smith
Since way back.
joe rogan
How much have you lost, all told?
kevin smith
Well, my highest weight I ever was...
Like at one point I was like, I weigh my area code and I was 323. Holy shit, dude!
Well, I'm not done because I was like, well, let's round this motherfucker out and I went up to 330. Really?
Yeah, which is nobody's area code that I know of.
So that was my highest.
Then I saw, what was it?
Was it Fed Up?
up the sugar documentary and took off like a bunch of weight because I stopped doing sugar.
Then, you know, my weight yo-yoed for a bit.
Then it's coming in February to be two years that I had the heart attack.
I was shooting the Showtime special in between shows.
I had the heart attack.
So then I started losing weight.
First I went on Penn Jillette's suggested diet with Ray Cronis, Just Sides, and it was like all potatoes, just eat potatoes for like two weeks.
And I was like, this will be easy.
I love potatoes.
And after two fucking days, you learn you hate potatoes.
You love milk and salt and butter and shit that goes into mashed potatoes.
But just eating a baked potato, and you can have as many as you want.
They're like, oh my god, eat as many as you fucking want.
And that's where I learned fasting.
Because when your choice is like a fucking potato or nothing, you're like, you know what?
I'd rather eat fucking air than eat a potato and stuff.
And then you realize, oh, I'm okay.
I didn't die.
And my body will start feeding off some stored fat.
So, at that point, when I had the heart attack, my kid was like, please go vegan.
Because there was a nutritionist was in the room the morning after I had the heart attacks.
Kid slept there all night just staring at me to make sure I didn't, like, fucking have a second heart attack.
And really, that wasn't the big danger.
The big danger, apparently, was in order to get to my heart, they punctured my groin.
That's how they get to your heart.
That's the easiest, fastest route and stuff.
And so, the whole night, they're like, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, they could either crack your chest, but they don't like to do that anymore, right?
So it's not as invasive to go through your femoral, and so you go through the groin.
Some people go through the wrist as well.
I met a cat who was like, they went through my wrist.
I was like, why did they go through my groin?
He's like, probably wanted to see your dick.
So...
I sat there.
The morning after the kid was there and the nutritionist was like, if you thought about plant-based, that'll cut your cholesterol down, or at least losing some meat.
And the kid was like, yeah, go vegan, one of us.
And she was definitely looking out for me, but at the same time, She knew that I'd be a big get for the vegan community.
Like, oh, I flipped this fucking motherfucker, this meat-eating.
I used to drink two gallons of milk a day.
If I could flip him, that's a good get.
So I tried it, and I was like, oh, I'll give it a shot.
I lived the way I wanted to for many, many years, and obviously that led me to almost dying.
So how about I try what you're talking about, you know, for a few months, six months.
And that was a year and a half over a year and a half ago.
So being vegan and also intermittent fasting, meaning essentially I don't do breakfast like yourself, has dropped me down another 70. So I'm 198 right now, which is like my high school weight.
unidentified
Wow.
kevin smith
Yeah, that's kind of nuts.
joe rogan
More than 100. Wow.
kevin smith
Over the entire time that we've known each other, yeah.
I've lost a human being.
I've delivered a child and it went somewhere.
unidentified
It's dead.
kevin smith
I used to carry it like an embedded twin and shit.
joe rogan
A lean woman.
kevin smith
Or a lean man.
How much do you weigh?
unidentified
All right, well, half of you.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
That's an awesome accomplishment, man.
kevin smith
It was.
It wasn't.
I didn't try.
Like, you know, again, Weight Watchers are now they're called WW. They were absolutely helpful, but it was never about, like, I want to look better.
It was just, you know, my options were get healthier, fucking die.
My old man had two heart attacks.
First one was a warning.
Second one took him out.
And, you know, as much as I could change my lifestyle...
And I did.
I still got my mom and my dad's hearts.
Are you exercising?
Yeah, I hike every day up Runyon, except since we've been on the tour.
That's been a little more difficult.
joe rogan
Only hiking?
kevin smith
Yeah, all the way up and stuff.
I haven't gotten into...
Weights or anything.
joe rogan
The good thing about strength training is strength training is particularly important as you get older.
It maintains bone density, maintains your muscle mass, and there's a lot of correlations between people who exercise and maintain muscle and heart health and just overall vitality of your body.
A stronger body is more durable, you know, and It's not hard for you to hire somebody.
Just hire a trainer.
kevin smith
That's true.
I think when I'm done with the tour, we're done in February.
joe rogan
Yeah, just hire somebody.
unidentified
It's time.
kevin smith
You can hire somebody.
That I never imagined I'd ever do.
I never imagined...
I'd have muscles.
Like, I ain't never done a pull-up my entire fucking life.
I remember in high school hanging on the bar, and they're like, move on, Smitty, because, like, I couldn't fucking get there.
Be nice to do a pull-up before I leave this world.
joe rogan
Yeah, for sure.
kevin smith
Especially, like, what if I'm hanging off a cliff and I'm in danger or shit?
joe rogan
It's 100% possible for you to do a pull-up.
kevin smith
In this life.
joe rogan
Yes.
kevin smith
Not today, but, like, intellectually.
joe rogan
No, but in this life, yeah.
kevin smith
And you're right.
joe rogan
It's a nice slow build.
kevin smith
That's what you want.
And I've also got like access to like, hey, I'll hire you.
joe rogan
Yes.
kevin smith
It's not even like I got to get my shit together and do it myself.
joe rogan
It's good to go somewhere.
It's good to go somewhere instead of having someone come to you.
It's like a change of environment.
Sort of it puts you in the mode like, okay, we're here to work.
But I recommend that to anyone who's getting, well, just anyone, period.
I think strength training is very, very important.
kevin smith
You've actually sold me.
It don't take much.
I'm pretty gullible.
But you've actually sold me in as much as, like, I trust you.
You're smart.
And what you said about bone density makes a lot of sense.
And I'm only getting older.
And that shit's only getting more hollow-y.
joe rogan
Yeah, weight-bearing exercises, carrying weight.
And, you know, it doesn't have to kill you.
It doesn't have to be something that's brutal and it breaks you down so you're exhausted the next day.
You really want, like, a light workout.
You really want a slow build.
Find someone who understands the state of fitness that you're at right now and gives you a nice slow build.
Just, like, squats with very little weight, a few deadlifts with very little weight.
Just a little bit of this and a little bit of that.
A little bit of push-ups, a little bit of sit-ups, and that's it.
You don't need to work out that long.
You can work out a half an hour, three days a week, and you're fucking golden.
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
Make a giant change in your life.
kevin smith
Sure.
I like them odds.
Three days a week?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
kevin smith
So you don't even have to do it every day?
joe rogan
No, you don't want to do it every day.
kevin smith
But that 30 minutes, is it like a fucking not fighting 30 minutes?
joe rogan
It doesn't even have to be that crazy.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
Build your body up to that.
You've got to realize you are a guy who's never really gotten after it your whole life.
So if you just shock your body into getting after it now, it's probably going to revolt.
You don't want that.
kevin smith
You already tried that.
joe rogan
Yeah, you want slow.
kevin smith
The heart was like, fuck you!
joe rogan
You want just some light, weight-bearing exercise.
And build up over a few months, man.
There's no rush.
You're just trying to be healthy, right?
You're not trying to fucking win Mr. Olympia.
Just start slow.
Do weights with a squat rack and fucking 25 pounds on each side.
unidentified
Just...
joe rogan
Three or four.
Just three or four.
Put it down.
kevin smith
Walk away for five minutes.
You know, what really irritates me about this is like as you imitated a guy doing squats, you closed your eyes, you went to a place, you literally played a character, you acted in front of me.
joe rogan
Well, it's just, I'm thinking about just doing it.
kevin smith
I could do it.
If I'd shot your thing here, it might have made more sense.
Make it so easy.
joe rogan
Well, I do it all the time.
So it's me.
It's like I understand that some people don't.
kevin smith
It was adorable though as you closed your eyes.
joe rogan
I'm picturing you doing it.
kevin smith
My eyes would be popping out of my head.
joe rogan
Nah, you'd be fine because I don't want you to do anything that makes your eyes pop out of your head.
kevin smith
But how do I get muscly then?
joe rogan
It takes time, man.
Time.
It's an investment.
kevin smith
I don't know if I have that.
joe rogan
It's a slow changing, like water hitting rocks, right?
When you see water carving a pathway through rocks...
That shit takes forever.
It takes forever.
And that's the same thing with fitness.
You're not going to get giant muscles quick.
I mean, you could be one of those fucking psychopaths that decides to completely change their life and completely dedicate themselves to fitness and all of a sudden you get jacked and you have all these muscles.
But that is going to have to be a massive commitment and a life-changing thing.
And for a guy who's had a heart attack, I don't recommend that at all.
I recommend...
You just slowly start working out with weights.
Nothing even brutal.
You know what a Turkish get-up is?
kevin smith
No.
joe rogan
It's a great exercise.
Is that a hand job?
No, that's different.
Full-body exercise.
You have a kettlebell in your hand.
You lie down on your back on the ground.
You lift your arm up.
You slowly get up to your feet.
We're standing up with proper technique.
And then you let it down.
And then you sit down again.
You lie back down on your back.
Again, it's a full body workout.
And it's not, you know, it's nothing that's going to kill you.
It's something that's just going to give you a little bit of strain to strengthen your connective tissues.
unidentified
How many reps?
joe rogan
You don't have to do that many.
Four or five.
Like, that's what I would say.
kevin smith
And that's, and I'm done for the day?
joe rogan
No, you do a couple other things.
kevin smith
Do a couple other things.
unidentified
You're adding shit now.
joe rogan
But I'm not talking about you breaking your body down at all.
I'm talking about you slowly adding resistance training.
This meathead mentality that you've got to go out and break your body down.
I think that's a terrible thing to do to someone who doesn't exercise because they're going to be in fucking severe pain.
And it's also, I don't think it's productive.
I don't think it's necessary.
I think the way to do it is to lightly get into it.
Then, once you start feeling it, I feel a little bit better.
It's easier to open up a jar of pickles.
Everything's moving better.
And then, you ramp You just, hold on.
kevin smith
You fucking sold me on the pickle opening.
joe rogan
Pickles are hard, man, to this day.
kevin smith
I never, I hate pickles, but you know it's tough to open up is like a jar of tomato sauce.
joe rogan
Yes, it's hard, man.
kevin smith
And many times I've turned to my wife and be like, is it just me?
Can you try this?
There's gotta be fitness in my fucking jeans somewhere, man, because my mom's dad Was a boxer.
Growing up, like a guy, and he had a record.
He was Kid Dixie Schultz.
Growing up, in my grandmother's house, there was a picture of a guy in that position with trunks, but old-timey.
And I was like, who's that?
And she's like, that's grandpa.
And he didn't look like grandpa, so I never associated it.
But apparently he was a boxer.
joe rogan
That would be a fun thing for you to do too.
Not even box somebody, but have someone hold pads for you.
And you learn how to punch and hit pads because it's exciting.
It's fun to do.
It's like an interesting thing to do.
You hit things.
kevin smith
Like Batman.
That's how you sell it.
joe rogan
Does Batman hit pads?
kevin smith
He hits fucking, you know, injustice and crime.
unidentified
Oh, right, right, right.
People.
kevin smith
Shit like that.
My boxer grandfather, I want to see if you agree with this theory.
joe rogan
Okay.
kevin smith
So you've been the man in the ring, so to speak.
You've been at the epicenter of attention of a thousand, five thousand, a bunch of people as a man on stage.
Even the man in the ring sometimes when you're doing a UFC event and stuff like that.
You know what it's like, the surge, the energy of That comes from like, I'm here and I got their attention and I command the fucking room.
It's part of why we do what we do.
My grandfather, having been a boxer, must have felt that, right?
Like fucking probably way more than I feel when I walk up on stage or on the reboot Roadshow tour.
I'm like, oh, I feel clever sitting in the back watching the movie with the audience and hear him laugh.
This is a guy who is like, I'm the man in the ring.
And like, it's all up to me in my fists.
And I could be a god or a goat tonight.
And then it becomes primal and there's pounding and shit like that.
You would imagine there's a...
If you got in the ring and he pursued it enough to have a record...
There must have been some sort of call, some sort of satisfaction to it all.
joe rogan
Maybe.
Sometimes people do it for money, right?
Maybe it would have been a way to make a living.
No?
kevin smith
This guy, I don't...
No, he...
I mean...
joe rogan
You don't think he did it?
kevin smith
I think he was hoping for purses, but I don't think it was just like this or mailman.
Although, that's where the story's kind of gone.
Not mailman, but...
This was a guy who boxed professionally.
And the story was that my grandmother, like when they had their first kid, my aunt Virginia, my grandmother was like, you can't be a boxer anymore.
And so he was like, alright.
And then he stopped being a boxer.
And then my grandfather became a custodian in the Newark courthouse.
And every day he would get dressed up in a suit and take the bus to the Newark courthouse.
They lived in a different section of Newark.
And then he'd put on his custodian outfit and clean the toilet, sweep the floors and stuff like that.
Noble, salt of the earth shit.
So my whole life I never questioned this.
You know, your wife says, you quit.
And you quit and stuff like that.
Until I became older and I became something of the man in the ring myself.
I know what it's like to stand at attention for everybody, where everybody, you are the focus of thousands, where you get a level of affection from one vociferous mass that is unparalleled from any amount of affection you could give from any other single human being in this world.
It is...
I've never done heroin, but I imagine it's better than heroin.
It's one of the greatest drugs.
It fuels us, and we obviously like it.
We keep fucking doing it.
We make money off it, yes, but there's many ways to make money, and we like it, and we do it because there's power to it, and it feels fantastic, and you feel like, man, they like me.
They really like me.
And then I started thinking, why would he have put that all to the side?
Like, how do you step outside all that just because your wife is like, I don't want you to do that anymore?
And then it made me reconsider my grandparents.
And I figured out, and I want to see if you back me on this play.
You don't know these cats, so you've got no skin in the game, so you can't offend anybody.
Doesn't that sound like she did dirty shit that nobody else did?
joe rogan
In the bed, you mean?
kevin smith
Yes!
Son, where else but the bed?
joe rogan
I didn't have that thought at all.
kevin smith
No?
joe rogan
My thought is that he recognized that it's very dangerous, and he probably knew people who died, and he probably wanted to find a way out of it anyway, which most fighters do.
Most fighters, at some point in time, they realize, I'm going to have to jump off this ride one day.
I can't stay on this ride and tell him a dead man, tell him 90 years old or 100 years old.
It's not feasible.
It doesn't exist.
There's no 98-year-old boxers out there.
kevin smith
You think he faced his own mortality?
joe rogan
Every boxer does.
Every fighter does.
You hit someone and you see them get hurt.
unidentified
He didn't have a great record.
He was like 50-50.
joe rogan
Well, then he's probably been hurt.
You see people get hurt.
You see people get pummeled.
You see people get knocked out.
Maybe you've been knocked out yourself.
And you realize that this is something that is unsustainable.
And if he's not making any money at it, it's extremely dangerous.
And you start thinking, what could happen to you?
What can happen to you?
It happens to people.
You see it happen.
If it hasn't happened to you, you watch it happen to other people.
If you're around combat sports enough, you're going to see people get fucked up.
And when you see people get fucked up, you realize like, hey, this is voluntary.
There's other ways to make a living.
I don't have to do this anymore.
I can get off this ride.
Or you're the type of person that doesn't give a fuck and you want to be a champion.
And your thought is you are here for glory.
You are here for a legacy.
You're here to leave your mark.
You want to go down in history as a great.
And if you don't feel that way, I tell people to get out.
I think fighting is one of the most singular pursuits a person can get into.
kevin smith
Yeah, it's like you're giving, you're not only giving like the, I'm dedicating myself to something.
You're giving your body.
Something that like you're taught your entire life, protect this.
joe rogan
It's also, the consequences are so grave.
The consequence is zigging and zagging.
You go the wrong way.
You run into a knee.
Wrong way, you run into a head kick.
Wrong way, you run into a punch.
You duck into an uppercut.
Your fucking lights go out.
You're laying on your back.
They've got a flashlight in your face and ice on the back of your neck.
And you don't even know what day it is.
And then that, you never get back.
And you can only get so many of those in your life.
It depends on the person, but you get knocked out three, four, five times, whatever the number is.
There's a certain number that your life is going to be fucking different now.
Because now your brain doesn't work good anymore.
That's a fact.
And maybe it'll get a little bit better over time.
Maybe you can go through some cognitive therapy.
There's some different things they're doing with magnets and different things they're doing with stem cells where they're shooting them straight into your cerebral spinal fluid.
And they think that that might have some sort of a positive impact on CTE.
But, man, the reality is combat sports are a fucking brutal, brutal business.
unidentified
And so you think it's possible he just got to a place where he's probably smart.
kevin smith
Like, this is my perfect excuse to not fucking get hurt.
joe rogan
Yeah, because he wasn't making any money doing it either, it sounds like.
kevin smith
I gotta tell you, you gave him his dignity back.
I honestly was like, he gave it all up because she gave up the ass.
unidentified
I doubt it.
kevin smith
She was like a dirty German girl who was just like, I will let you do the anal, but you've got to get out of the ring.
And she was like, I'll give you one ring for the other.
And he was like, fuck!
Goddammit, Gussie.
He called her Gussie.
I think it was more likely love.
joe rogan
It was more likely love and family.
unidentified
No!
joe rogan
Yeah.
kevin smith
I knew these motherfuckers.
Love?
joe rogan
Kids.
He's got a kid, right?
kevin smith
They had a few.
joe rogan
Well, when he has a kid, man, everybody loves their kids.
And you want to be around to see those kids grow up, and you don't want to be brain dead.
Look, I personally know a lot of people that have combat sports-induced brain damage.
There's no doubt about it.
No ifs, ands, or buts.
kevin smith
Some CTE stuff.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's why when I see anybody who's like half in, half out, I go fucking hard in the paint.
I tell them, man, you gotta get the fuck out of this now.
You gotta trust me.
And I've done it to the point where people think I'm mean.
And I'm like, look, I'm not mean about very many things in this life.
But when it comes to people who are delusional about their abilities in combat sports or their future in combat sports, I get fucking mean.
Because I think you gotta know.
You gotta know with no uncertain terms.
I can't be protective of your feelings.
I have to go in hard because no one else is going to.
People don't.
They bullshit you.
Coaches bullshit you.
Trainers bullshit you.
They tell you you got a chance.
Promoters are willing to put you on fights when you really should retire.
It is a dirty aspect of the business and I don't play that shit.
If I think that someone should get out, I go hard and I tell them.
I've done it to friends.
I've done it to guys that I've done commentary for.
They've asked me and they pulled me aside and I said, you got to get out, man.
You got to get out.
Because you could talk right now.
You're okay right now.
But how many more shots can you take?
How many more times can you get knocked out?
One KO can change your whole fucking life.
Meldrick Taylor got knocked out by Julio Cesar Chavez.
And Meldrick Taylor was an Olympic gold medalist, a fantastic boxer, was fast as fuck, lightning fast combinations, beautiful skill.
But Julio Cesar Chavez just kept wearing on him and wearing on him, and boom, he dropped him in the final round.
And they stopped the fight with like seconds to go in the fight.
Richard Steele stopped the fight.
It was a big controversy, like, oh my god, how could he stop the fight?
Meldrick was ahead in the scorecards, and, you know, there was only a couple seconds to go, and Meldrick would have won a decision.
It was the right call, because he was done after that fight, man.
After that fight, he was never the same.
You hear him talk today, it's the saddest shit in the world.
He can barely put together a sentence.
And he had a few fights after that against Terry Norris, who was a brutal knockout puncher, and a couple other guys.
He just was never the same again.
It was that one fight.
One fight.
One beating too much.
And it all fell apart on him.
And that can happen.
That can happen to any fighter.
And when you're done, you're done.
The only way you should ever compete as a fighter is if this is your fucking calling.
This is the thing that you're obsessed with.
It is your 100% focus.
And as soon as it's not, as soon as you have doubts, get out.
Because there's a bunch of people out there that don't have doubts.
And I always try to tell people, think about Mike Tyson before he won the title.
Think about the Mike Tyson that destroyed Marvis Frazier.
Think about that motherfucker.
That guy's all in.
You don't ever want to face a guy who's all-in when you're half-assing it.
And a lot of people are half-assing it and they don't even realize they're half-assing it.
They just have this thing in their head.
Well, I'm training pretty hard.
I'm doing good.
I got good skills.
I can beat this guy.
But when someone's in, they're in.
Combat sports are uniquely dangerous in terms of the consequences of you not being committed.
So you got to know when to get out and no one does.
Very few people.
There's like a few guys.
Andre Ward, retired, undefeated, Olympic gold medalist, two-division world champion.
He's the rarest of the rare.
Most guys, they keep going until they get fucked up.
They keep going until they get knocked out, they get brutalized, and then you meet them afterwards and they can barely talk, man.
They can barely talk.
I've seen so many guys that could just barely string words together.
Everything's a mumble.
All the words are slurring to the next word.
It's horrible, man.
And I saw it in the gym.
I saw it in the gym with guys who never made it.
They still got brain damage.
The gods of combat sports, they don't give a fuck if you win a title.
If you're eating shots, you take punches to the head, kicks to the head, you're getting fucked up, man.
kevin smith
It seems like it.
How come they didn't talk about that for years and years?
joe rogan
They didn't know.
They did know that people get punched drunk, but they didn't know what was causing it.
It's not even knockouts.
It's sub-concussive trauma that does the vast majority of the damage.
kevin smith
They have a lot in the world of hockey as well.
joe rogan
Yes.
Sub-concussive trauma is terrible, but knockouts are also horrific.
And then for me, my discussions with guys like Dr. Mark Gordon, who's an expert in traumatic brain injuries, and he works with a lot of soldiers, and he runs his TBI foundation to deal with injuries that soldiers and football players and fighters face, and his descriptions of it will scare the fucking shit out of you.
I mean, he's like, people can get brain damage from fucking jet skiing.
Just blah, blah, blah.
All that bouncing up and down can give you fucking brain damage.
kevin smith
So not even getting in a jet ski accident, just like...
joe rogan
Just jet skiing.
And if jet ski accidents, it's exacerbated.
But he's talking about like people, some people get in accidents, some sort of a, something happens to you, we get knocked out, and they are never the same again.
This is a real thing.
You can get a shot to the head, a golf ball, somebody misses, they crack you in the head with a golf ball, right?
You get hit with a line drive.
That kind of shit changes people forever, forever.
So your grandfather probably wanted out.
kevin smith
First, alright, some thoughts.
Number one, Sober October gives you a different Joe Rogan.
joe rogan
Yeah?
kevin smith
Oh my god, you're so dialed in, it's beautiful.
You're the Ken Burns.
Of combat sports.
I can listen to you spin yarns, tell tales.
You know what?
That's unfair, the Ken Burns.
I call you the Gene Shepard.
joe rogan
I don't know who that is, but I hope he's awesome.
kevin smith
Gene Shepard, remember Christmas Story?
joe rogan
Yeah.
kevin smith
He's the guy that narrates Christmas Story.
He wrote the books, the essays that it's all based on.
My other thoughts.
That is far more dignity than I ever afforded my grandfather.
I appreciate it.
My mom is going to appreciate that.
And then fourth, fuck, I lost my point.
I thought I hit enough of them.
joe rogan
To me, it hits home because I needed to know when I needed to retire, too.
When I stopped fighting, I knew.
I was like, I am not doing this the way I used to do this.
I used to be completely obsessed, but I saw a bunch of people get knocked out.
I knocked a bunch of people out.
I knew that that easily could have been me.
kevin smith
What does it feel like to knock somebody out?
joe rogan
It's weird.
It's a bittersweet feeling.
You don't feel good.
kevin smith
If you were in a true combat position, it would feel good.
joe rogan
Well, fighting for your life, you mean?
Yeah.
Competition.
I mean, it was all people my age.
I was 19, 20 years old, and I'm standing over this unconscious version of me that I just kicked in the head.
kevin smith
And that's how the person went out.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
The amount of force you can generate with a kick is just so terrifying.
It's so terrifying.
You know, to think that that's going to bounce off your head and then the lights go out and then you could incur legitimate permanent brain damage from something like that.
Absolutely.
kevin smith
Is it in the initial kick or in the hit, the drops of the canvas?
joe rogan
Both.
Just the kick.
Someone kicks you in the head, someone who really knows how to kick, they bounce a fucking shin off your temple.
You might not ever be the same again.
That's real.
kevin smith
And you've been knocked out?
joe rogan
I've never been knocked out.
I've been stopped, which means I got TKO'd, I got dropped with a punch, and then the guy followed up with a bunch of punches and the referee stopped the fight.
That was the last fight I ever had.
But I was never unconscious.
kevin smith
There's a lot of details.
Slow it down.
joe rogan
Yeah, I was in a kickboxing fight.
Actually, it was three fights in a day.
I won the first two.
I won the first one by knockout.
I beat the fuck out of the second guy.
And I was pretty sick, actually, going into the fight, going into the tournament.
I would get sick sometimes because I'd be nervous and shit.
My nutrition was terrible.
And then the third fight, I got hit with a left hook.
I won the first round, and then the second round, I got hit with a left hook, and my legs just went boink!
They just stopped working.
And I remember going, what the fuck?
Shit!
Like, I'd never been dropped like that before, where my legs just—he was a perfect left hook.
He just caught me, clunk, right on the chin.
kevin smith
So what—if he catches you on the chin, what is the—what's happening that— It's like something happens.
joe rogan
It twists your brain, right?
And your brain, like, it also does something that's like nerves behind your jaw.
And when you get hit hard, it's like an electrical charge goes into your body and everything just shuts off.
It's weird.
Like, I was totally conscious, but my legs just stopped working.
kevin smith
I fell down.
And then while that's happening, more punches are coming?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
No, because it was kickboxing, it wasn't MMA. In MMA, the guy would jump on you and they'd stop it right there.
Or you'd maybe grab a hold of him and maybe you would survive, maybe you wouldn't.
You know, there's arguments that it's safer in MMA because they stop it quicker.
There's also arguments that when it goes to the ground, you could actually survive better and you could hold on and maybe that would allow you to take more damage and maybe that's not as safe.
I'm in the former camp.
I think it's safer.
kevin smith
Okay.
joe rogan
Because I think when fights get stopped quicker, it's safer.
Okay.
kevin smith
So wait, when you got jolted and electricity went through, did you go down?
joe rogan
Yeah, I went down.
My legs just stopped working like this, like I'm standing up.
He hit me and I just go, plink!
kevin smith
So you went down ass onto your ass?
joe rogan
Yeah.
I went down and I got up before the count of 10. Referee, dust your gloves off.
And the kid swarmed at me again and hit me with a bunch more punches and I covered up and the referee stopped the fight.
So that was a TKO, which is Tactical Knockout.
But I had already known that I was kind of...
I was already doing stand-up comedy at that time as well.
And I had already known that I was half in, half out.
kevin smith
Wait, when is this?
1989. So this is before news radio?
joe rogan
Oh yeah, way before.
kevin smith
So wasn't it for you you were either going to fight or be funny?
joe rogan
No, well, I knew somewhere around the time I was 19 that there was no future in this.
And I was trying to make the Olympic team, which the Nationals were in Miami in 1988. Wait, where are you from?
Boston.
That's where I was at.
So I was a Massachusetts state champion, and then I would go to these national tournaments and compete against the Illinois champion or the New Hampshire champion.
kevin smith
I've got to ask a question on behalf of somebody else.
Hold on.
joe rogan
You've got a question stored?
kevin smith
Yeah, because I was talking to...
Your grandmother?
joe rogan
Yes.
kevin smith
Named Josie?
joe rogan
Yes.
kevin smith
Gerard Way?
joe rogan
Yes.
kevin smith
Lead singer of My Chemical Romance.
joe rogan
Yes.
Yeah, we're related.
kevin smith
That's what he said.
I was like, I'm going to do Joe Rogan.
He goes, I don't have 100% confirmation on this, but I'm pretty sure Joe Rogan is my cousin.
joe rogan
Yeah, we're cousins.
kevin smith
I think my Aunt Josie was his grandmother.
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't know him, but we're cousins.
kevin smith
How crazy that two people in the same family became super fucking famous and don't even...
joe rogan
Yeah, we don't know each other.
kevin smith
You gotta have him on.
He's fascinating.
He's good.
joe rogan
He'd be a good, great guest.
kevin smith
And plus, you're related, huh?
unidentified
Yeah, we're related.
kevin smith
So anyway, back to the story.
joe rogan
So, you know, I just didn't know what I was going to do for a living.
And then...
A few things happened.
Watching a friend of mine get knocked out really bad.
There was a guy named Jersey Long, who was this badass Canadian guy, who knocked my friend Larry out.
He hit him in the head with an axe kick and just changed.
Larry was never the same again.
He was always real tentative and nervous.
He destroyed his confidence.
We weren't making any money.
So these are all amateur fights.
So there was this thing like, what am I doing?
Why is this my whole life?
kevin smith
Why were you doing it?
joe rogan
Well, it changed who I was from the time I was 15 to the time I was 21, almost 22. When I started fighting, when I started doing competitions, it gave me a focus and it gave me something where I didn't feel like I was a loser.
kevin smith
Right.
joe rogan
Like, for the first time in my life, it was something that I didn't...
I realized that if I focused on this thing and I dedicated myself to this thing, I could be successful.
And that changed how I view...
kevin smith
And literally be the opposite of a loser, be a winner in most cases.
joe rogan
Where I wasn't before that.
I was a loser.
I just didn't have anything going.
I wasn't good at school.
kevin smith
It was your football.
Like, for some people in high school, it's like, I found football.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
I found something.
kevin smith
Or it was your Jesus.
Some people are like, I found Jesus.
joe rogan
Yes, yes.
I think that's what people need, man.
They need a something, whether it's chess or Jesus or filmmaking, whatever the fuck it is.
You find a thing and you focus it and you see some success and you're like, oh my God, I can do something.
I can do something.
I can be somebody.
I can do something that's fulfilling and rewarding and I know that I'm not a loser.
Because a lot of it is like confidence, right?
A lot of it is if you look at your life And you look at things that other people are doing, you go, God, I can't do that.
He's doing that.
These people can do that.
They're different than me.
I don't have confidence.
It takes doing something and having some success at it that gives you confidence to do other things.
And martial arts were so terrifying to me.
I was so scared of it that it became, by overcoming that and becoming successful at it, it gave me this understanding that you can do something.
You can basically do, you know, within reason.
Whatever you want.
If you just focus on it.
And you're not going to do it.
It's not going to be immediate.
You're not going to be successful immediately.
And you're going to fail.
But through those failures, you learn.
And you go back.
And you get some experience.
And you do it better next time.
And that is everything.
kevin smith
Failure is just success training.
joe rogan
Yeah, and it's like this fucking tattoo.
This is Miyamoto Musashi from the Book of Five Rings.
And in that book, he said something.
I read it when I was like 17 years old.
Once you understand the way broadly, you will see it in everything.
And that is, if anything, that is one of the main focuses of my life.
kevin smith
One more time, say it.
joe rogan
Once you understand the way broadly, you can see it in everything.
kevin smith
That describes you.
You're a seeker.
My favorite...
Proverb is, may you realize your own divinity in this lifetime.
I saw it on a yoga wall hanging that my wife put on the house once.
It wasn't really the message she intended.
She just liked, I think, the image of Buddha.
And one day I was letting the dogs out and I was waiting by the door so you had time to like really stare at it and I was probably just stoned enough.
And then completely understood it where I was like, oh, it is a blessing.
May you realize your divinity in this life, your own divinity.
Meaning, don't wait until you drop dead to find out you were God all along.
Handing it off to somebody else and some higher power.
Higher powers than you.
Motherfucker became a fighter.
Made him feel worth something.
Motherfucker became a filmmaker.
Made him feel worth something.
Manifested.
He's absolutely right.
You can kind of do anything.
unidentified
You can't fly without a jetpack.
joe rogan
You can't beat LeBron James one-on-one.
kevin smith
Yes.
And Mike Tyson back when he was committed.
joe rogan
There's things you can't do physically.
But there's a lot of things you can do.
A lot of things you can get better at, and especially artistic pursuits.
Because the thing about artistic pursuits is everybody finds their own way.
So the shift to me from doing something that was competition, especially competition with grave physical consequences, to go from that to doing stand-up.
When I first started doing stand-up, I realized, okay, this could be it.
The fucking fighting thing, it's a dead end.
There's no money.
This is before the UFC. There was no money in kickboxing.
I remember I'd gotten offered a kickboxing fight, a professional fight, for $500.
And I was like, what is that?
$500?
It means I have to train for six weeks?
No alcohol, eat good, run, do all these different things, train, spar, and then $500 at the end of it.
And then maybe brain damage.
kevin smith
It's like when you see what porn stars get paid for anal and you're like, what?
Like, you would imagine, like, don't they pay you a million dollars to do that?
And they're like, oh no.
You know, 500 to 1,500 sounds about right.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's not a good deal.
kevin smith
So wait, do you realize then that you went from...
Like, you just 180'd it.
You went from pain to pleasure.
Your business was pain.
And then your business became pleasure.
Make motherfuckers hurt to make motherfuckers laugh.
joe rogan
No.
kevin smith
Your job as a fighter is to hurt the other person until you win.
joe rogan
Right, but you give pleasure to the people that watch.
kevin smith
Yeah, but the fight's going to happen with or without the audience, correct?
Whereas in comedy, it don't happen with or without you.
joe rogan
Yes, but there's always an audience.
The only time there wasn't an audience, we did have fights where people from other gyms or other dojos would come.
Dojang, because it was Korean.
They would come and we would fight them.
And there was no...
I mean, full contact fights.
There was no...
No referees.
You're so bitch.
kevin smith
You're butch.
You're so butch, bro.
unidentified
Butch?
joe rogan
It's a funny word.
kevin smith
You're so fucking butch.
It's so like, I read about fucking superheroes pounding on each other, and you've literally hit people.
And been hit.
You know what it feels like to take a punch.
I've never been hit in my life.
This is not also me throwing that out into the universe, looking for it.
Please don't fucking hit me.
unidentified
I'll pry.
You don't want to get hit.
kevin smith
I will offer to suck your dick before the punch is thrown.
unidentified
Yeah.
kevin smith
Desperate to make you stop.
joe rogan
That might be worse than hitting you.
kevin smith
Yeah, no kidding.
I get bad blowjobs.
But I've never been hit.
All the stories I read about Green Arrow punches, or all the stories I've written, where fucking Daredevil punches a motherfucker, you've actually done the punching and received the fucking punch.
joe rogan
Yeah.
kevin smith
It's pretty metal.
joe rogan
A lot of kicks.
kevin smith
It's butch, dude.
unidentified
That's butch.
joe rogan
Yeah, because my earliest martial art was taekwondo, which is mostly kicking-based.
But yeah, I did a lot of that, too.
The kickboxing was a big turnaround, too, because kickboxing happened at the end of my taekwondo career when I was realizing that taekwondo was really limited.
And it was also the beginning of me doing comedy.
It was all happening kind of at the same time.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
And I just was really, really, really, really fortunate that I wanted to do stand-up comedy, and I happened to be in Boston, which at the time was one of the hubs, one of the most creative environments in the history of comedy.
Oh, my God.
I mean...
kevin smith
All the people you hang out with?
joe rogan
Well, there was a lot of guys that you'll never hear about.
But they stayed in Boston.
But Bill Burr was – he was a little bit after me, like a year or two after me.
And there's Patrice O'Neal who's also in like Bill Burr's group and Nick DiPaolo.
And there was – fucking god damn.
I mean there's so many guys that came out of that area.
You could just go on and on and on about the local headliners.
But the environment, Stephen Wright came out of there.
He was out of Boston?
Yeah, he's from that area.
And there was guys you never heard of that were fucking – oh, Lenny Clark, of course.
But there's guys like Don Gavin and Steve Sweeney who are to this day I think some of the best comedians I've ever seen in my life.
And they were just local headliners who were just masters.
They just were just destroyers.
And we got a chance to see those guys.
Greg Fitzsimmons, who's another good buddy of mine who came out of that group.
We got to see those guys when we were amateurs.
And we got to see these guys where they were just destroying in a way that you didn't even think was possible.
And we got to...
Unique opportunity as amateurs to be in this incredible environment where there are so many comedy clubs.
There was three comedy clubs in one area on Warranted Street.
There was one where was Nick's Comedy Stop, and then there was down the street, there was the Comedy Connection, and above it, there was a comedy club at the Charles Playhouse, and then across the street, there was Duck Soup.
So there was four comedy clubs within...
A half a block.
I mean, it was crazy.
It was a boom of comedy.
Then there were stitches, and there were just so many outside bars and stuff that had stand-up, too.
kevin smith
When did you realize you were funny?
joe rogan
It took ten years.
Yeah.
kevin smith
But Wendy, well enough to be like, I'm going to try stand-up.
joe rogan
Yeah, I could get laughs occasionally.
kevin smith
Were you funny as a fighter?
joe rogan
No.
I was funny to my friends in the locker room or when we were on a bus traveling to a tournament.
Everybody would be nervous.
And I'd be the guy that made everybody laugh.
Like gallows humor.
I'd be doing impressions of each other.
I had comedy for psychos.
That's how I thought of it.
And my friend Steve Graham, who I'm very good friends with to this day, he actually talked me into doing stand-up.
He was one of the ones.
Like, you should be a comedian.
And I'm like, look, I'm making you guys laugh because you're fucking crazy.
Other people are going to think I'm an asshole.
Like, this is not, like, things that people think are funny.
kevin smith
It never occurred to you.
You thought you were, like, living room funny.
unidentified
Yeah, I thought it was mean.
joe rogan
It was mean funny because fighting is a mean sport.
It's mean.
You have to be mean if you want to be successful.
So some of my comedy was mean.
And then I didn't know about amateurs.
I didn't understand.
And then I went to an open mic night.
One of the things about going to an open mic night is you get to see the professionals, like the hosts, and occasionally professionals drop in and do a set, but you also get to see these amateurs who are terrible.
And you go, oh, I get it.
So everybody sucks at first.
And then...
You know, you could just go up with the people who suck and you suck too.
And it was like, okay, it was a huge relief.
Because I thought of stand-up, oh my god, it's like Richard Pryor or Jerry Seinfeld, those are comics.
kevin smith
You gotta be a legend.
joe rogan
I can't do that.
So I'd like, probably, I was faking that.
kevin smith
How old?
21. I went on to a comedy stage once, before I even made Clerks, when I was probably about 20. Rascals had an open mic night.
joe rogan
West Orange?
kevin smith
No, the one in Eatontown, right between the Monmouth Mall and the Seaview Square Mall.
And so I went up and I did like five minutes.
The only bit that worked was a bit about sucking my own dick, and I put that in Clerks.
Years later, I was like, oh, I remember they laughed at that bit.
I'll throw it in.
But I remember trying it, and I never told my friends this would be 1990. It was before I even saw Slacker, and that was when I knew I wanted to make Clerks.
So probably 1990 or 91 pre-August.
But it was like, I remember being like, well, I tried it, but I'll never do that again.
And now I literally make my living being on stage fucking talking.
joe rogan
Crazy.
kevin smith
It was nuts.
And that's why I'm like, that's why I had my head around my grandfather, like, how the fuck do you walk away from that?
Like, don't you feel great when you're up there and you're fucking killing and stuff like that?
I know it's like money, of course, is always a part of it.
It's nice to get what I would consider...
Overpaid to do the same shit I would fucking do anyway.
Like, I would be trying to be funny regardless and shit.
But don't you get the, like...
joe rogan
It's definitely great to kill.
It's horrific to bomb.
And they're counterbalanced.
Whereas as amazing as it feels to kill, it feels equally horrific.
Or maybe even more so to bomb.
It'll haunt you.
And then the thing about...
is you don't think about it while it's happening because while it's happening I'm thinking about my performance I'm thinking about making sure that I'm in the zone with you can stick the landing yes I'm I'm not thinking everybody loves me I'm thinking okay this bit this here's the peak here's the valley here's where I bring it up and here's where I hammer it home and And here comes the pause, and then there's the punch.
And I'm also in the moment where I have to be...
When I'm doing a bit, if I'm doing a bit on a clock or something like that, I have to be thinking about a fucking clock.
I'm not just saying those words.
I am thinking 100% about what I'm saying.
Because if I don't, it doesn't work as good.
There's no way.
You can't just say the words.
It's a form of hypnosis.
It's like a mass hypnosis.
And these people know those fucking animals out there in that crowd.
They smell weakness.
They smell distraction.
They smell when you're disconnected.
They feel you like in the way the avatar people do.
unidentified
Thank you for using a movie reference so I can understand.
joe rogan
Yes.
There's a thing that's happening that's undefined, because the only people that really understand it are the people who are real comics, who have been doing it a long time, who know how to kill.
And there's this thing that happens when everything's tight and everything's in place, that is, you're a ride, and you're a passenger on the ride.
You're not driving it.
You are in a sense that you have to do the work and you have to do the writing and you have to perform.
I have two shows tonight.
I fucking hammer it out all the time.
unidentified
Tonight?
joe rogan
Yep.
kevin smith
Where are you going?
unidentified
Ice House?
joe rogan
No, Comedy Store.
I was at the Comedy Store Sunday and I did an arena Saturday night in Cleveland and I did two shows at the Fox Theater Friday.
You gotta go, baby.
You gotta go, go, go, go, go.
Comedy is like running.
It's like anything else.
You gotta be in shape.
kevin smith
Yes, and you hate it.
joe rogan
And so you've got to do it all the time.
kevin smith
You don't enjoy it.
No, I love it.
You suck up the praise.
That's what I'm saying.
So when is the moment where you're like, ah?
joe rogan
But it's not that, because you can't think about that.
Because if you think about that, it's time that takes away from the actual thing.
The actual thing deserves 100% of your attention.
kevin smith
And the actual thing- Well, I'm not saying you feel that in the moment, but when do you fucking feel it?
Like when you're like, goodnight.
joe rogan
Yeah, but even then I let it go.
I just go, ooh, get it out of here.
Then I start thinking about other shit.
kevin smith
Why?
joe rogan
Because that's how I go.
That's what makes me go.
What makes me go is the thing.
I'm always concentrating on the thing.
How do I get the thing better?
kevin smith
How do I make it work better?
All right, so I concentrate on the thing, but then...
I fucking celebrate that like, holy shit, I stuck the landing.
joe rogan
I do that with my friends right after this show.
Like, we have a great show.
Like, me and Santino, Saturday night, we had this fucking wild show at this arena in Cleveland.
It was awesome.
After it was over, we high-five, we get something to eat, and that's it.
Then you let it go.
You gotta let it go.
Because my thinking is...
kevin smith
I'm literally on the road every night.
And it's like, even though it's a different show every night and it's a different wonderful audience, I'm still thinking about the two shows we had at the Music Box in the Chicago Theater.
I'm like, oh my god, it was religious.
Of all the screenings I've ever had in my life, those two will stick out.
joe rogan
I think it's different, too, because you're playing a movie that you did.
You're putting out a piece, and you get to sit down and watch people enjoy the piece.
And you get to get this, like, big rush.
Like, ah, look at that.
kevin smith
Then I gotta go up and then do the fucking...
joe rogan
Yeah, but the Q&A is also...
But the Q&A is also organic.
You know, you're just being yourself.
You're having a good time.
kevin smith
It's definitely being yourself, but it's organic as you want it to be.
Like, basically, somebody asks you a question, and you're like, here's a long answer.
Maybe it had nothing to do with that question.
joe rogan
Right, but even then, it's like that...
It's not like you're doing a bit where you have to begin your set.
Thank you very much, Chicago.
Great to be here.
Here's the thing about Chicago.
kevin smith
Do you have memorized bits?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
There's bits, but they don't...
kevin smith
I was always blown away by Carlin.
One day, we were rehearsing on Dogma, and George Carlin was...
We had a smoke break.
It was the 90s, so everybody smoked cigarettes and shit.
I was like, what are you working on now, George, when you're not doing this?
And everybody was in the rehearsal.
Matt, Ben, Linda, Salma, Chris Rock, the whole fucking cast.
Me, Jay.
And George is like, oh, I'm working on this bit for the new HBO show.
He goes, it's called Advertising Lullaby.
And I said, what do you mean working on it?
And he goes, well, I'm memorizing it.
And I was like, you memorize your bits?
And he goes, yeah, I write everything.
I was like, you write your bits?
I always just thought you kind of came up with shit off the top of your head.
He goes, what are you, nuts?
He's like, I write everything and then I have to memorize everything like a script.
And then we were like, can you do it?
And he's like, yeah, you want to see it?
And so he did a command performance.
For the eight of us in the room of advertising Lullaby, and it was pitch perfect.
I saw the HBO show months later, and it was pitch perfect.
So I couldn't believe that that dude was as committed to the written word as he was, but he fancied himself a writer first and foremost.
He was a guy that didn't even want to do comedy, though.
He really backed into it.
He wanted to be Danny Kaye.
He wanted to act and stuff like that.
And he just happened to be funny.
First he did the radio DJ thing, and then the Hippie Dippie Weatherman.
Burns and Allen was prior to that and stuff.
But he kind of backed into comedy and was excellent at it, but it was not like, this is what I've always wanted to do since I was a kid.
He always seemed to accept the fact that he was like, oh, I'm...
This is it.
I'm a genius at this.
unidentified
All right.
joe rogan
Well, he did it differently.
He would do...
I mean, he was probably the most prolific, big-name guy of all time.
And he actually inspired Louis C.K. to do A New Hour every year because that's what he did.
kevin smith
Carlin, yeah.
joe rogan
George did A New Hour every year.
And part of the reason why he did that...
kevin smith
He was on stage 275 nights a year.
joe rogan
That's crazy.
But part of the reason why is he owed a lot of money.
kevin smith
He did.
Big time debt.
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't know how that happened, but he fucked up.
kevin smith
In his book, Last Words, he talks about, like, he bought a jet.
He bought a jet?
In the 70s, he was that fucking huge, he bought a jet.
And he would sit on the runway in Long Island at a fucking LaGuardia.
joe rogan
Yeah.
kevin smith
And just do coke in the fucking plane.
unidentified
Yeah.
kevin smith
His book, Last Words, is amazing.
They published it posthumously, but he was working on it with Tony Hendra.
Before he died, he was so awesome, man.
Like, I think about him all the time.
Anytime I jump on stage, because every night after a reboot, we get up on stage and work the crowd and stuff.
joe rogan
I got a chance to say hello to him once.
That was it.
kevin smith
Yeah?
joe rogan
Yeah, I met him at the comedy store.
He was very friendly.
Said hi to everybody.
Said hi to the door guys.
kevin smith
Hey, how are you?
joe rogan
Said hi to me.
kevin smith
Hey, hey, hey.
George Godwin, how are you?
joe rogan
He didn't know who the fuck I was.
He had no idea.
Just said hi.
I said, hey, man, how you doing?
And that's it.
That was our thing.
kevin smith
I mean, I worked with him a few times in the movies and stuff.
One of my favorite fucking memories of George Carlin is we go see him do a show, me and Chris Rock.
It was me and my wife, Jen, and Chris was married to his wife, Malak, at that point.
And George was playing at Caesars in Atlantic City.
And so he's like, I got seats for you guys up front and stuff.
So Rock had his role with the new.
He was fucking at the height of his game and shit.
And so we go see the show, and Carlin had a bit where he, it was like, people I could do without.
Like, guys named Skip, shit like that.
And one of them was, people I could do without.
Any man over the age of 12 who wears their baseball cap backwards.
joe rogan
Backwards.
kevin smith
So, you know, long before I met him, I'd always hear that bit and be like, ah.
So the night we're at the show, he's up there doing a bit and, you know, he's like, another person I could do without?
Kevin, you're exempt from this.
Guys over the age of 12 who wear their baseball cap backwards and my eyes lit up and Rock's next to me and Rock goes, he knows who you are, even though we'd worked together on the movie.
It was so fucking awesome.
joe rogan
It made you exempt, though.
kevin smith
For the show, because I was there.
Kind of sweet.
I think we got along because he wanted to act, and I was always like, come act, come play.
And in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back, he plays a hitchhiker that blows people for rides.
And he was such a committed actor.
The day we shot him, we had him for a few hours, and then he had to rush off to go be on a stage and be Carlin.
So he made a little window of time for us.
And he came to me on set and he goes, Kevin, you're the writer-director of this.
I have a question for you.
I was like, okay.
And he goes, you know, it says that I'm fucking with these dudes.
I talk to them about the rules of the road.
Am I fucking with these idiots or do I believe in the rules of the road?
And I was like, well, I can't believe you're giving it this much fucking thought, George.
I said, but, like, the way I wrote it, I assumed the guy believed in the rules of the road.
And he goes, that's what I thought.
That's exactly what I fucking thought.
He was so, like, committed to performance, man.
Like, he was an absolute joy to be around.
And he was never on.
He's like you.
Like, fucking not like, hey, man, how about them donuts?
He doesn't feel the need to make you laugh.
I love Tracy Morgan to death, don't get me wrong, but, like, You gotta save six hours for facial, you know...
joe rogan
Cramps.
kevin smith
Rehabilitation, yes, because you're just...
joe rogan
You're laughing so hard.
kevin smith
You're laughing and your face is in that rictus grin the entire fucking time.
joe rogan
Dude, you ever made John Witherspoon?
kevin smith
Is he the same way?
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
I did a show with John Witherspoon and his son, JD, and my fucking face hurt after it was over.
It was, like, cramped up.
kevin smith
That's Morgan.
joe rogan
Like, my cheeks were hurting.
kevin smith
George was not that guy.
He could just sit there and have a conversation with him.
Like, he was just interesting.
joe rogan
Do you know Miss Pat?
kevin smith
Do I know?
joe rogan
Miss Pat.
Do you know who she is?
She's another one.
She'll make your fucking face hurt.
kevin smith
Really?
joe rogan
Oh my god, she's so funny.
Her stories are so crazy.
She had a real crazy life.
Did you listen to comedy albums back when you were a kid?
Oh yeah.
What were your jams?
kevin smith
Sam Kinison was my boy.
That's where I got the long coat for Silent Bob.
joe rogan
Trench coat, yes.
kevin smith
From Sam Kinison.
joe rogan
Well, I was introduced to comedy through my parents having Cheech and Chong albums.
kevin smith
Ah!
joe rogan
Cheech and Chong.
kevin smith
We have Chami Chong as in Jay and Silent Bob reboot.
joe rogan
And then Bill Cosby.
kevin smith
My dad gave me Bill Cosby albums.
And my mom would always be like, you can't listen to George Carlin, but you can listen to Bill Cosby because he's clean.
joe rogan
Isn't that funny?
unidentified
In retrospect, how crazy is that?
joe rogan
I mean, how crazy is it?
kevin smith
He had a stellar reputation.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
But, you know, when I was on news radio, I had heard that he drugged women.
kevin smith
Did you really?
joe rogan
Yes, yes.
unidentified
That was the scuttlebutt at NBC? Yes, yes.
joe rogan
The scuttlebutt what?
And I might have heard it from Candy Alexander, who was always on top of shit.
She always had her fucking thumb to the pulse.
But...
Yeah, I heard.
kevin smith
I'm going wide-eyed because these are like rock star names.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'd heard.
I'd heard.
Yeah.
And I was like, what?
And they're like, hey, drugs women.
kevin smith
Never mind him.
Kenny Alexander.
That's a rock star name.
joe rogan
She's amazing.
I love her.
I love that lady to death.
That lady quit news radio because she wasn't getting a big enough part.
kevin smith
I remember.
joe rogan
Yeah, she was like, you know what?
I don't need to do this.
kevin smith
And she went off and wound up being on one of the CSIs or something like that.
joe rogan
Yeah, was it CSI? She was on a bunch of shit.
She's been in a million different things.
She's amazing.
She's a powerful woman.
kevin smith
Every time I'm here, we talk about it, but it was such an incredible assembly.
Did you see the 2020 that they did on Phil Hartman?
joe rogan
No.
kevin smith
They did a couple weeks ago, like a whole hour, 20 minutes on Phil Hartman and stuff.
joe rogan
I wouldn't watch it.
unidentified
Oh.
kevin smith
When you didn't pop up in it, I was like, that's very Joe Rogan to not be involved in this.
joe rogan
I can't.
I don't even know if they asked.
I don't remember.
kevin smith
The other thing I wanted to ask you was the fucking fast-moving lights.
That the Air Force was like, capture video on.
What were your thoughts?
The moment I saw the video, I was like...
joe rogan
The podcast with Commander David Fravor that I had?
kevin smith
No.
joe rogan
Okay.
That's who you gotta...
You gotta watch that podcast, because he's the guy that was there.
kevin smith
He was in the plane?
joe rogan
Yes, he was the commander.
He was the guy who was in the fucking plane, who observed the thing.
He said whatever it was, it went from 60,000 feet to 50 feet in a matter of seconds.
kevin smith
Do you see me lighting up like a child?
Because this is the shit.
Remember In Search Of when we were kids?
unidentified
Oh, yeah.
kevin smith
Leonard Nimoy.
joe rogan
Leonard Nimoy, yes.
kevin smith
Where they made you fucking believe.
When we were children, we believed in Sasquatch.
We believed in Loch Ness Monster.
We believed in aliens.
And then the internet got rid of shit.
joe rogan
The difference between this is...
kevin smith
What is this?
joe rogan
Whatever this object was...
Believe it or don't believe it.
Think that something is off about it.
It was actively blocking and jamming radar.
And it moved at a preposterous speed.
It went...
I don't remember how many miles.
They say like 30 miles inside of a second.
Some insane amount of speed it traveled.
They were trying to track this thing.
They couldn't.
I mean, it was moving.
kevin smith
No emissions.
joe rogan
No method of propulsion that made any sense.
kevin smith
No drone technology of any kind.
joe rogan
They don't know what the fuck it was, but they had seen several of them.
And the people around that area in San Diego off the coast of Mexico, the Air Force people, had seen several of them.
unidentified
Fuck, this is...
Yeah.
kevin smith
I remember seeing this in the day this was in the news and I was like, why is this not like the front page fucking news story?
joe rogan
Well, New York Times wrote a big piece about it.
kevin smith
They did.
joe rogan
But you need to watch the podcast with Commander David Fravor.
kevin smith
That's the one.
joe rogan
David Fravor was the guy who was in the vehicle.
He saw it with his own eyes.
He observed it with the tracking equipment in the plane and he looked at it with his own eyes.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
And he said, it looked like a Tic Tac.
That guy is not full of shit.
And he is a high-level military guy.
He doesn't have a long history of this.
He's not seeking attention.
It was very difficult to get him to do this in the first place.
Jeremy Corbell, who made that documentary.
unidentified
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
joe rogan
Bob Lazar in Area 51, Flying Saucers.
That...
That was a humbling experience listening to him talk about it because you could tell.
He's not full of shit.
He's telling you about a real experience he had that is impossible to describe.
And the fact that this thing was actively jamming radar.
People could say it's a this or it's a that or it's an anomaly.
kevin smith
Wait, what do they say?
What do they say?
joe rogan
It was actively jamming radar.
unidentified
What do people say?
joe rogan
Oh, they moved it to 2x zoom, and that's why it looks like it took off quick.
No, they couldn't track it.
They couldn't stay on it.
It was moving too fast.
It didn't make any sense.
It took off at a preposterous rate of speed, and more importantly, it was actively jamming radar.
It was using equipment to jam their radar.
kevin smith
On purpose.
Yes, it was doing it.
It couldn't be like, perhaps, whatever its energy signature was created of radar bonding?
joe rogan
It was doing something to jam the radar.
It knew that they were trying to track it.
kevin smith
It didn't want to be found.
joe rogan
Exactly.
It was like, fuck off.
kevin smith
What do you think it is?
joe rogan
Fuck off with your nonsense.
I think it's from another planet.
That's what I think.
kevin smith
Come on, keep talking, boy.
joe rogan
It's either from another dimension or it's from another planet.
kevin smith
Wait, what?
joe rogan
It's more likely that it's from another planet.
Hold on.
kevin smith
What do you mean another dimension?
joe rogan
Well, we don't have any idea.
I mean, how many dimensions are there?
We know what we can see and feel.
Here's the thing.
When you see an ant, right, and ants move it around the ground, and you hold a cell phone over that ant, does it have any idea what the fuck that is?
No, it doesn't.
kevin smith
This is why I make a trip out here.
joe rogan
It doesn't.
It doesn't have any idea because it's outside of its realm of understanding.
And it's entirely possible that if something lives a million years longer than human beings have existed and it continues to innovate and continues to create new technology, They can make technology that is indistinguishable from sorcery.
If you think about the way Bob Lazar explained it when he was working at Area 51, it's like if you took a nuclear reactor of today and showed it to some people from the Victorian era, they would think that it was magic.
And this is exactly how we were approaching these recovered crafts.
Because they were trying to back-engineer, according to Bob Lazar, whether you believe him or not, they were trying to back-engineer these crafts.
And they were saying that these crafts were operating on something called Element 115, which we didn't even know was a real thing.
I mean, they had speculated that it existed.
But he was talking about this in the late 80s and the 90s.
While they didn't even absolutely prove that Element 115 was real, I think it was 2013. So he's talking about something that the Air Force or the Navy or whoever the fuck was operating Area 51 and S4, where he was, that they had this knowledge and understanding of this element that they had somehow or another made stable.
That could bend gravity.
It could change gravity.
So instead of being a propulsion system where you have a fire that comes out of the back of a thing and it forces the thing forward, this thing just pushed gravity in front of it and it shot through insane amounts of space and time with incredible speed that didn't even make any sense.
And they didn't understand how they made it.
They couldn't back engineer it.
kevin smith
So pushing gravity would You'd have to listen to him describe it.
joe rogan
I'm butchering it.
kevin smith
A lighting.
That would push it up, but then it also gives it propulsion as well.
joe rogan
I'm butchering it, for sure.
But the way he was describing it, there was something about this element 115 that utilized, when it was inside of the spaceship, it utilized gravity and some sort of an un...
In an impossible-to-understand way that they still have not figured out how to do it.
kevin smith
And he saw it in action?
joe rogan
Yeah, he saw it in action.
He saw it in action, and he was a propulsion expert from Los Alamos.
And he had worked on propulsion systems during his own free time, and he had worked on some nuclear projects at Los Alamos that was in the middle of concocting some top-secret military shit.
And he's clearly a brilliant guy.
But so many people try to discredit him, and maybe they're right, and maybe, I don't know.
I believe a lot of what he's saying.
kevin smith
If there are aliens, do you want to be here when they make contact?
joe rogan
Well, I think they're making contact whether we like it or not.
That's what I think.
I think they're looking and watching whether we like it or not.
They're observing.
And I think if you were an intelligent being from another planet, you would want to make sure that the Territorial monkeys don't blow each other up, and that's what we are.
We're like this adolescent stage of evolution where we still have all of our primal, territorial, jungle instincts, but yet we also have this insane ability to harness the atom.
We also have this ability to send videos through space.
We can catch them on your phone and play it back and forth.
We hold energy in these little rectangular devices that we hold in our pocket.
We charge them.
And we're charging them with fucking nuclear power that's You know, nuclear power plants are charging our phones, and then the phones go into our pockets, and we're like real close, you know?
We're real close to a lot of this crazy technological innovation, and it keeps getting more and more spectacular with every passing generation, and they're probably watching.
They're probably watching and waiting and trying to figure out what the fuck we're doing, and if you believe what they told Bob Lazar, that they were responsible for an accelerated evolution.
kevin smith
Wait, wait, wait, wait, come on, too much information.
joe rogan
One of the things they were saying— Who's they?
When he was working for—what is he working for, the Air Force?
Was it the Air Force that Lazar was working for?
Whatever the government body that was operating Area S4. They gave him a bunch of breakdowns on a lot of things they do and where they think they got these crafts from and where the crafts are.
One of them was from an archaeological dig, he said.
But they gave him an explanation of what these aliens are here for and what they're doing.
And one of the things that they said, and he said, I have no method of verifying whether or not this is true or not, but that they had accelerated the evolution of primitive primates.
So they had taken primitive primates and they had done something to them to change them from a primitive being to what we have now in Homo sapiens.
And that's us.
If you really look at evolution, the difference between Australopithecus and Homo sapien, it's only a few hundred thousand years, which is insane.
If you think of how much more advanced we are than those lower hominids, and there's no other animal that's experienced that kind of a leap.
The human brain doubled in brain size over a period of two million years.
We have no idea how.
We have no idea what happened.
It's all speculation, whether it's We're good to go.
That humans figured out a way to use an arm to throw and hit things and that accelerated our problem-solving skills.
There's a lot of theories.
We don't know.
Terence McKenna had a theory called the stoned ape theory.
He believed that human beings were experimenting with psilocybin mushrooms and that psilocybin mushrooms accelerated our evolution.
Who knows?
We don't know.
But one of the things that they were telling Lazar when he was working at S4, back engineering these crafts, were that human beings were the product of accelerated evolution, and that these space beings, and that there was more than one, there was more than one civilization that was involved in this, these space beings had had some sort of a hand in this running experiment that is the evolution of man.
kevin smith
So then...
joe rogan
Whether or not that's true or not, who the fuck knows?
kevin smith
Totally.
So everyone's like, we might be in a simulation.
We're not, but at the same time, we could be somebody's simulation.
joe rogan
We could be a simulation, too.
I mean, Elon believes we're in a simulation.
And, you know, I had a philosopher on that was trying to explain to me the likelihood of assimilation.
And his – what was his name again?
How do you say it?
Nick Bostrom.
His perception was that if you look at the laws of probability, it's more likely that we are in assimilation than we're not.
And that was really hard for my stupid brain to accept.
If you look at the amount of planets that there are, if you look at the Fermi Paradox, like where are these planets?
If you look at the insane number of stars just in our galaxy alone, and then the insane number of galaxies in the universe, What are the odds that a life form hasn't gotten to the point where it can create a simulation that's indistinguishable from reality?
Well, the odds are very small.
So, if the odds are more likely that something has created a simulation that's indiscernible from reality, the odds are very likely that we're in it right now.
kevin smith
If we're in a simulation, we're in a pretty good version of it.
joe rogan
You and I are kicking ass.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
We're doing great in the video game.
Exactly.
Jamie, you're doing well as well.
Thumbs up.
kevin smith
Not bad.
In the simulation, we were allowed to climb from a place to another place.
joe rogan
Yeah, we were making progress.
We're having fun.
kevin smith
We're not just playing fucking Pitfall.
unidentified
No.
kevin smith
We're actually...
We're sims.
joe rogan
Think about what you were saying about loving being on stage and that great feeling of having all these people that have been entertained by your art.
And be able to sit there and watch what you create.
Being able to sit there and watch your movie and be able to sit there and watch all these people laugh at your work.
That's crazy.
That's a crazy great thing and so much better than your grandfather who was a janitor.
Think about that.
That is so much less rewarding.
Your life is infinitely more rewarding and more fortunate.
kevin smith
Wait, was he in the simulation as well then?
joe rogan
I'm sure.
Maybe that's a...
I don't know, man.
kevin smith
Or in a simulation, is it just like, give them some backstory so I didn't really have a grandfather?
joe rogan
It's all speculation.
Who knows?
kevin smith
Who knows?
joe rogan
Who knows that it changes every day?
I mean, when you wake up, you assume that these fucking weird, cloudy memories of the past are all realistic.
We don't know.
We don't even know if you ever have really gone to sleep.
We just know you have this memory of every night going to sleep.
We don't really know.
kevin smith
What do you mean?
joe rogan
That's why you're awake right now.
How the fuck do you know that what you've experienced in your past, all of it, wasn't just simulated?
And if it is simulated, wouldn't sleep be simulated as well?
Wouldn't all of it be simulated?
If you are just in this state, this state of perpetual simulation, where everything is existing all at once, but your mind puts it in this context of the day-to-day grind.
Get up in the morning.
I gotta hustle.
I gotta go out there and go out.
Get after it.
Maybe it's all nonsense.
Maybe you're all in this eternal neurological concoction, some thing that's forcing your brain to interact with these ideas and memories as if they're real.
kevin smith
It's unfair that I'm the only one stoned.
joe rogan
This is stoner talk.
kevin smith
This is good fucking talk.
joe rogan
Dude, I've been stoned for so many years.
I'm probably permanently stoned.
kevin smith
Even in Sober October?
joe rogan
Yeah, something.
Probably take me months to completely dry out.
If I took a test, I'd probably...
kevin smith
You didn't answer my question.
Do you want to be here for the aliens?
joe rogan
Yes, for sure.
kevin smith
Really?
unidentified
Yeah.
kevin smith
What if they're hostile?
joe rogan
We are hostile.
kevin smith
So you think we could take them?
joe rogan
Nope.
No.
I mean, are the chimps going to take over the earth?
No.
Fucking vaporize those chimps.
kevin smith
It depends which movie you see.
joe rogan
We can fucking gun those chimps down.
kevin smith
And so, wait, would we gun down...
The alien invader?
joe rogan
I don't think so.
They'd probably be able to control us.
Our minds?
Yeah, just control everything.
They're probably impossible to even, like, isolate.
They could probably just take off and be gone.
Like, if you pointed a gun at them, they'd probably just disappear and be on the other side of the Earth in a matter of seconds.
I mean, we're talking about technology that's indistinguishable from magic, right?
kevin smith
Now you sound like Thor, man.
That's what they said in Thor.
joe rogan
Did they?
unidentified
Yeah, yeah.
kevin smith
Like Thor, and they were like, you know, science and magic, what's the difference?
joe rogan
Well, it is.
Well, that is something that they've always said.
kevin smith
Isn't that what Aesimov said, too?
joe rogan
I'm not saying anything unique.
That's one of the things they've said about a certain level of technology.
Like, when you achieve a certain level of technology, I think it's a famous quote.
kevin smith
Aesimov, right?
joe rogan
But it has nothing to do with Thor.
It has something to do with scientists.
That a certain level of technology is indistinguishable from magic.
kevin smith
Yeah, I think that's an Aesimov.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah, someone like that.
But that, if you hit a certain level of technology that's beyond your comprehension.
kevin smith
Right.
joe rogan
I mean, look, man, if you could just go to the 1800s with an iPhone, you'd be a fucking sorcerer.
Right?
kevin smith
True.
joe rogan
Here's, what's the, R3C Clock.
There we go.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Clark's first law.
There it is.
unidentified
That's it.
kevin smith
And that's the dude that wrote 2001?
Yes.
Um...
joe rogan
Was that it?
He wrote that, right?
Didn't he write?
Well, Kubrick made the movie.
kevin smith
He made the movie by I think Arthur.
joe rogan
Did he write it?
kevin smith
Clark wrote it.
But then again, I was like, Asimov.
joe rogan
Yep, 2001, Space Odyssey.
unidentified
Ooh, I got one.
joe rogan
What a great fucking movie that was.
He wrote the screenplay.
kevin smith
What do you think happens then?
All right, so if we're in a simulation and we die, then we just cease to exist as a program.
If we're not in a simulation, if we're organic, little meat puppets and stuff, what's your take on the afterlife?
Does it just end?
joe rogan
I think any speculation about that, any speculation is just that.
It's just speculation.
You could just jerk yourself off all day trying to figure out what happens when you die.
kevin smith
That's kind of the idea.
joe rogan
You know, Richard Dawkins, I had him in here last week, and he was like, I think the lights go out.
And that's it.
Do you think the lights go out?
It's almost like challenging you.
I'm like, I don't know.
I don't think you know either.
kevin smith
It's not romantic enough.
You know what I'm saying?
But at the same time, it might just be me being arrogant going like, no, no, I can't just, the lights can't just go out.
joe rogan
I did so much work.
No one knows.
You have not experienced it.
So even his reductionist view of it is pure speculation.
He just decided to make it simple and logical.
kevin smith
I got close.
When I had my heart attack, the doctor said, you've got to have a widowmaker.
He goes, that means in 80% of the cases of 100% occlusion, the patient always dies.
He's like, but you're going to be the 20% because I'm good at my job.
And that's when he disappeared into my crotch, punched a hole, made magic.
So, Dr. Mark Leidenheim, if you're going to have a heart attack, find this guy.
I went to get a physical for Jay and Son Bob Reboot before you go make a movie.
If you're the director, they make you, and if you're the actors too, they make you get a physical and make sure you're not going to die during production.
So I saw this doctor, Dr. Paula, who, like I've seen for years whenever I make a movie, she's the movie physical doctor.
And when I came in, she was like, oh my god, you don't know how lucky you are.
And I was like, I know everyone's been telling me I'm lucky.
And she was like, no, no, no, let me tell you a story.
She's like, me, two other heart surgeons working on a heart patient in a hospital in the emergency room.
Suddenly, heart attack.
And I was like, guy had another heart attack?
She goes, no, the other doctor drops to the floor, has a massive heart attack.
Widowmaker like yours.
And I was like, well, I guess if you're going to have a heart attack, have one in the hospital surrounded by doctors, man.
They couldn't save him.
I said, did you save him?
She goes, that's the point.
We couldn't save him.
joe rogan
Holy shit.
kevin smith
We had all the equipment, we had all the expertise, and all of us were trained, but with the Widowmaker, it's not like, if I'm good at my job, I can save this motherfucker.
It's not even 50-50.
There's no logic to it.
It'll just go.
joe rogan
I got to pee so bad, I can't continue this conversation.
Talk to Jamie for one minute.
kevin smith
Part of the pride in doing Rogan's show is not having to pee.
jamie vernon
I almost had two earlier.
kevin smith
Did you really?
You're holding it for me?
jamie vernon
Yeah, I'm all good.
kevin smith
Well, I got a chance.
The weed, ladies and gentlemen.
Which camera's mine?
jamie vernon
I can share that with you.
Fucking A. I'm not in sober October.
kevin smith
You're not taking part?
jamie vernon
No, definitely not.
kevin smith
You're gonna smoke some of this, son.
It's called Snoogans.
It's called Berserker.
This is the hybrid.
jamie vernon
Let's do Sativa since I still have 14. The Sativa?
kevin smith
Oh my god, you're gonna love it, man.
It's gonna fucking give you the wake up.
And there's a little comic strip inside each one, like a Bazooka Joe.
jamie vernon
Awesome.
kevin smith
That came from my man, Micah Caviar.
This is definitely, you can find it at Herbarium.
You can find it in a bunch of weed legal states.
Snoogans, Snoochie Boochies, and Berserker.
Also, more importantly, Jay and Silent Bob Reboot.
I'm going to use this opportunity while he's taking a piss because I just get lost.
I'll let him roam.
I'm supposed to be selling shit, but I'm like, tell me about the aliens, Joe.
This is why I come here, to be entertained one-on-one.
But Jay and Silent Bob Reboot, man, if you want to go see the movie with me and Jay, we're traveling for the next 55 dates with the movie up until February.
You watch it with us.
We do a Q&A. It's a good time, man.
Rebootroadshow.com, that's the address for tickets and stuff.
It's also opening in all the areas that we've went.
So we went to Jersey, Chicago, Detroit, Grand Rapids last week, and then it opened in Chicago, New Jersey, yeah.
And in Illinois, New Jersey, and Michigan in theaters.
So this week, November 1st, it's opening on a bunch of screens following the places that we've actually went to.
So let me see.
Opening November 1st, Minneapolis at AMC Arbor Lakes, Houston at the AMC Willowbrook and the AMC Gulf Point 30, in Columbus, Ohio at the Gateway Film Center, in Des Moines at the Century W, Des Moines-Jordan Creek, in St. Louis at the AMC West Isle of San Antonio, at the Regal Cielo Vista.
So every place we go with the movie, Me and Jay, then the movie opens up.
In our wake.
So if you don't want to see it with us at RebootRoadShow.com, you can go to Fandango.com, just enter Jay and Sal and Bob, Reboot, and see if it's playing near you.
It's a good time.
It's a heartwarming film.
Every night for me going to watch this movie is like being in church where I'm the priest and also the person they're celebrating.
joe rogan
Have you made a deal with iTunes or Amazon?
kevin smith
Saban Films has the movie domestically and they've got an output deal with somebody, I think Amazon.
And then Universal has the movie Abroad.
We're opening in the UK November 29th or something like that.
I'm going over there at Thanksgiving.
Yeah, fucking smoking.
No, I got some, man.
It's all you.
To tour there as well for a week in England.
So it's got homes and stuff, but the reason we go out on tour was because, like you, I got an audience, man.
I can count on the audience, and I live off that audience like Normally me and Jay are just out there.
I'm doing Q&A or stand-up or whatever.
So like going out with the movie, like the budget of the movie was like, we shot it in New Orleans.
So it's like 10 million, but you get money back.
So it's like 8 million.
We needed 8 million bucks.
So we got some money from Saban for the domestic rights.
We got some money from Universal.
For the overseas rights.
But then there was equity financing we had to pull together like a missing two, three million bucks to make up the budget and stuff.
And that's where you get money from real people.
People are like, I'm going to invest in a movie and hope I get my money back or if not make it and stuff.
And those people always get fucked in this business, never make their money back, ever.
But the tour, I was able to assure those people, I'm like, within one year of the date we start the movie, you're gonna get your money back.
Because I knew I could take the movie out on tour, and as long as I was willing to live with it, We can get all that equity financing back.
So one year from the date of my heart attack, we started shooting Jay and Silent Bob Reboot as a big fuck you to the heart attack.
One year from the date we started shooting Jay and Silent Bob Reboot, I'm going to be able to pay off my equity investors.
That's fucking unheard of in this business, but I only get to do that because of the audience that we built up, because the audience will come out and support us.
And I was told a long time ago, if you work for the audience, you'll never work a day in your life.
Absolutely fucking true.
I've had not a boss.
And then I meet the bosses every night at the show, and they're beautiful.
They're fantastic.
They are my boss.
They give me money, just like a boss gives you money and shit.
And they'll let you know if you're fucking up.
You know the audience will fucking tell you.
Your boss will let you know.
But this tour with this movie, we banged out a tiny record, because we don't have marketing money.
It's one thing to get money to make the movie.
Then it usually costs double what you spent to make the movie, to market the movie, to tell people it's coming, to put it up on screens and shit.
So we were lucky enough to get the 8 million to make the movie.
We weren't going to get fucking 15 to market the movie.
That's crazy.
And that's generally what happens.
So we just had to be smarter about it.
And since I tour anyway with the podcast, I'm like, oh, let's use this fucking model and expand it.
So we hit a little record with our opening weeks.
We did the opening day of the tour was in New Jersey at Asbury Park at the Paramount.
And we did like 93,000 on one screen.
So we got like a We're good to go.
The brains of our operation.
We thought like we could count on the audience.
We'll take the movie out on tour and stuff like that.
And it's really been working out and it's nice that like some business people are being like, hey, good job.
Like people are going like, oh, they figured out their niche and they've been doing – we've been doing this for years.
We did it with Red State years ago.
Remember we toured that as well.
So it's great if you got, like, most filmmakers wouldn't bother because they're like, I'm just going to put in a bunch of theaters and shit and let the studio pay for it.
And I don't have a studio, so I got to take my movie to the people and four-wall it.
But I'll be honest with you, like, I started as an indie filmmaker, so that's in my blood.
And there's something insanely gratifying about sitting there with the audience.
I never had that early in my career.
They just put the movie on a bunch of screens.
You'd hear, number-wise, how you did.
But being in the room...
joe rogan
It's fucking religious.
It seems like you miss out on all the stress of all the other aspects of movie making.
kevin smith
The thing I used to hate the most, man, is you spend your time trying to make a movie.
You dream like, I want to see it up on the silver screen.
You have these movie dreams and shit.
And then you have to make it a reality.
If you're lucky...
You get to make the movie a reality.
If you're lucky, it gets a release.
If you're lucky, you spend opening weekend not celebrating like, we fucking did it.
We did a thing that not everybody ever fucking does.
Who are we?
We're chimps and we figured it out.
But instead, we'd spend every fucking waking moment of opening weekend going, how much did it make?
Who's going?
Are people going?
It's not making enough?
Fuck, we've got to drive more business.
And suddenly, the joy of what you were seeking is fucking gone because you're mired in the business.
And if you're lucky, if you're the Avengers, you get a month at the box office.
That's about it before everyone moves on to something else.
If you're a Kevin Smith movie, you don't even get a weekend.
You get a day if you're fucking lucky.
And so suddenly all that dreaming took me five years to make this movie and living through a fucking heart attack.
Comes down to one day at the box office.
Fuck that, man.
Like, tilt the table in your favor.
So I said, I'm going to take myself out of that box office race and instead do this.
Like...
What I'm losing in, well, I don't have marketing and stuff, but what I'm losing in a mass release of the movie, I make up for it by being able to accompany the movie myself, and that makes it a premium event.
It eventizes it.
It's an idea that I stole from Eddie Izzard.
I remember when I fell in love with Eddie Izzard's stuff, I was like, Eddie Izzard's literally just doing fucking stand-up in a big theater with a costume on.
Like, he's just doing stand-up that you would do with fucking improv and stuff, but, like, he eventized it.
He turned it into something.
It's a one-man show, as opposed to, like, he's doing 90 minutes of stand-up.
So for us, we were like, let's take the movie out on the road and eventize it.
If you're next to the movie, people are like, oh shit, the director's there.
If I bring Jay, they're like, oh shit, Jay and Silent Bob are there as well.
So it's been like a blast, but you just have to be willing to put the time in.
And some people are like, yeah, you could do this.
But I'm like, yeah, we could do it because we've been doing it for like a quarter, man.
25 years since Clerks happened.
And from day one, I've been engaged with the audience.
Long before it was fashionable or profitable just because...
Why else wouldn't I want to?
Like in the early beginnings, I was like, my friend Ming Chen, the guy from Comic Book Men, he built a website and I was like, can you put up like a thing where I could do Q&A all the time with the video?
Is that possible?
He goes, no, because it was like 1995. And he goes, but I can put up a message board.
And it was like a whiteboard like Reddit.
He's like, people could put up, it was long before Reddit existed, people could put up messages and then you could look at them anytime you want.
Three in the morning you can respond to them.
And I realized I'm never going to fucking be alone again in this life, man.
I'll always be able to reach out to somebody who's like, hey man, I saw your movie, I got a question for you.
And boom, there's a connection and shit like that.
So since 95, I've been in it online with the audience.
I remember when I started, it was me and Peter Jackson were the only two filmmakers on the web.
And then Peter Jackson got smart and was like, if I'm on the web, I ain't winning Oscars.
And he went off and had a great career.
I'm still on the fucking web because I love connecting with the people that you're trying to reach.
I don't do it in a vacuum going like...
Good filmmakers like David Fincher, they make a thing and they put a movie out there and they don't fucking go follow it.
They let the movie speak for itself.
I'm the other guy who's like, when the movie's done, I run out.
I'm like, hold on, let me tell you the story of how it all fucking happened and shit.
joe rogan
But people love it.
It's a different vibe.
unidentified
It's our little niche.
joe rogan
It's our little thing.
kevin smith
And it works incredibly well for us.
So the tour...
Every night last week was like fucking sold out and it just felt like amazing.
And as the tour unrolls, we were going to fly from place to place and then I was like, let's just fucking drive.
Let's do it punk style.
So we've been driving around.
Yeah, we got a little SUV and we've been trucking around and it's fucking glorious, man.
I'm 49. You don't get this at 49. This is the shit you're supposed to do in your 20s.
Right.
Post heart attack, now I'm like, well, like, post heart attack, I didn't go crazy where I'm like, give me all the pussy in the world and shit.
Like, nothing really changed for me, but I did become very cognizant of like, you know, my wife hates when I say it, but I'm like, I'm living on borrowed time.
I know for a fact, my old man fucking died after the second heart attack.
We're all living on borrowed time.
Act accordingly.
I'm just acutely aware of it because I was so fucking close to the moment.
So it's not so much like I'm having a midlife crisis, not by any stretch of the imagination, but anything that allows you to feel young, vital, makes you feel like, oh, yeah, this is why I started shit like this.
Or it's fun.
We're making a living.
It's crazy.
We're on the road all the time, and I've been saying all week, this is the best vacation I've had in years, even though we're working sometimes three times, three shows in a day.
Because it never feels like work.
I'm just driving around.
My whole job is to go to a theater and fucking show the movie to people and stuff.
It's really fucking dope.
joe rogan
That's awesome, man.
I'm happy for you.
kevin smith
Thank you.
joe rogan
You always are, man.
I am.
I am.
Always.
kevin smith
How was the piss?
joe rogan
It was great.
I needed it.
kevin smith
I know.
You always get there.
joe rogan
I was hanging in there as long as I could.
I was starting to get weird pains.
kevin smith
You don't want dick troubles.
Not at our age.
joe rogan
I couldn't concentrate.
kevin smith
You want good, steady flow.
What I'm walking away from this session with you is that I... No bullshit.
I think when I'm done with the tour, I'm going to...
Start working out.
unidentified
Yeah.
kevin smith
But not like, you know, get Chappelle big and shit like that.
joe rogan
Yeah, don't get crazy.
kevin smith
Just some muscle tone.
I think I need to do, let me see, I'm 49, I turn 50 in August.
unidentified
I gotta be able to do a fucking pull-up before I'm 50. You can do that.
joe rogan
That's totally achievable.
Strength training.
kevin smith
Where were you in high school?
Like, I could have used that kind of like, you can do that, Kev.
Instead, everyone's like, fucking fatty, get off the bar and shit.
joe rogan
Well, some people have a different approach.
kevin smith
They were, I know.
You've got that Zen Yoda Rogan approach.
unidentified
I do now.
kevin smith
Where's your show tonight?
joe rogan
Comedy store.
Two shows.
kevin smith
You know what you're gonna do?
joe rogan
Yeah.
kevin smith
Do you do the same show both times?
joe rogan
No, no.
I have some new stuff that I have to work in, so I'll try to figure out how to do it.
These shows in town, there's a lot of fucking around.
kevin smith
What percentage will repeat?
joe rogan
Depends.
kevin smith
Do you have a killer bit where you're like, I'm going to open with this, and then I'll try the new stuff?
joe rogan
You always try to open with something that's proven.
kevin smith
That works.
joe rogan
But sometimes not.
Sometimes there's a thought that gets in my head, like right before I go up, I'm like, let's see what this works.
kevin smith
So wait a second.
joe rogan
Because a comedy store is a gem, basically.
kevin smith
To work out?
joe rogan
Yeah.
I mean, you get paid, but really it's a gem.
kevin smith
You're probably at a point in your career now where you don't even have to come up with shit to do on late nights because you don't even have to do...
When was the last time you did a late night thing?
joe rogan
Yeah, I don't do those too often.
kevin smith
I was going to say, you've got your own fucking audience.
I fucking love you, dude.
You cracked the code.
You built a thing and you were like, I'm going to build my own thing.
You're like the Coen brothers of this bitch.
Coen brothers were like, we're going to do our own thing.
And it's fucking weird.
And it doesn't work like your thing at all.
But we're going to stand over here and we're going to keep doing it.
And slowly, the whole industry gravitated toward them.
They stood outside of it and then everybody started doing their sensibility, their sense of humor, their type of casting.
You're the same fucking thing.
And I watched it in fucking real time.
You built a thing and you were content to be like...
I'm happy with this.
I don't need to fucking chase this or that.
I'm building a thing.
And now you've been rewarded by being at a place where you don't have to go anywhere to promote whatever it is you want to do.
You literally do it fucking here, feeding your own machine.
Think about it.
Instead of jumping on some Tonight Show or something like that and giving them ratings...
You feed your own beast by being like, oh, I'm going to be here, come see the show.
joe rogan
You know what's really crazy?
I don't even do that.
kevin smith
What do you mean?
joe rogan
I don't talk about my gigs.
I just do it through social media.
kevin smith
You never on this?
joe rogan
Very rarely.
kevin smith
Bill Maher does it at the end of every episode.
He's always like, hey man, I'm going to a gig tonight.
joe rogan
He doesn't have social media, I don't think.
If he does, he's not on it very strongly.
I just post stuff up on Instagram.
kevin smith
That's what I do too, man.
But I would assume with this, it's like, you know.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, I talk about it casually.
Like, I'm in Houston.
And then, no, Dallas on November 15th and Houston on the 16th.
There you go.
I just did it.
kevin smith
I didn't want to force you into it, man.
joe rogan
Listen, man, I love what you do.
I love the fact that you're living in this vibe.
You know, you've got this thing that you're doing where you make your films, you promote your films, you go on tour with them.
And I like that you...
Switch it up, too.
Like, Red Stay is one of my favorite movies, man.
I fucking loved that movie because it was so crazy.
unidentified
It's weird.
joe rogan
And I didn't have any idea what to expect when I sat down to see that.
But I love that you've got that sort of artistic freedom.
You do what seems like a thing to do.
kevin smith
You know, it's masturbatory, I guess, on some level.
joe rogan
It's creative is what it is.
kevin smith
As long as people enjoy watching me masturbate, I'm all right with that.
joe rogan
I think people like watching you beat off.
kevin smith
You know, tip my jar.
unidentified
Yeah.
kevin smith
You know, I'm a cam kid.
joe rogan
Thank you, brother.
kevin smith
You're amazing.
Thank you for having me.
joe rogan
Kevin Smith, ladies and gentlemen.
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