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Aug. 29, 2016 - The Joe Rogan Experience
02:58:59
Joe Rogan Experience #839 - Tom Papa
Participants
Main voices
j
joe rogan
01:58:42
t
tom papa
51:43
Appearances
j
jamie vernon
02:46
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Speaker Time Text
joe rogan
And to this house we're born...
Tom Poppa, ladies and gentlemen!
The Sultan of Sourdough.
That's your nickname.
tom papa
I love that.
I saw that this morning.
joe rogan
Yeah, the Sultan of Sourdough.
tom papa
That's really badass.
joe rogan
New York Times.
They mentioned you in the New York Times.
tom papa
Oh yes, the New York Times.
unidentified
I talk about the New York Times and I keep my mouth closed when I say it.
The New York Times.
tom papa
I'm now friends with the New York Times because of doing your podcast and hooking me up.
joe rogan
What is he like?
tom papa
Or is it a she?
He's a great guy.
joe rogan
He's the gray old lady.
He's an old gray lady.
tom papa
Yeah.
So when I was in New York, I went with my daughter.
They gave us a tour of the New York Times.
They invited us in anytime you want to come.
joe rogan
Because of the sourdough?
tom papa
Because of the sourdough story.
That's incredible.
And because they saw it on this show.
joe rogan
That's incredible.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wow.
tom papa
This show brings me riches.
joe rogan
Dude, this show got an article written in the New York Times about sourdough bread and starters.
That was absolutely fascinating, though.
tom papa
It was.
joe rogan
I had no idea.
tom papa
Yeah, that's the new world.
joe rogan
I read an article today in the New York Times.
It was so disappointing, though.
It was some woman wrote an article blaming the patriarchy on women drinking too much.
Sexism...
On women drinking too much.
I'm like, is this the fucking New York Times?
Like, how desperado are they for ratings or for reading?
Sourdough starter.
America's rising pet.
tom papa
There it is.
There's a better picture than that, though.
I don't remember what it was.
There it is!
There it is!
joe rogan
Tom Papa.
tom papa
My little starter sitting on my counter.
joe rogan
That's awesome.
tom papa
I was just stirring it up today.
joe rogan
There's a fucking really disturbing article that I read in the Washington Post this morning.
The news is getting fucking super wacky.
Glenn Greenwald tweeted it.
The Washington Post wrote an article about this settlement in Israel.
Settlement that they want to bulldoze.
And they called it a miserable town.
A miserable town.
Israel wants to bulldoze this miserable town.
And they're like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Who fucking wrote this article?
unidentified
How did you think the language?
joe rogan
I'm going to write miserable article.
You're dealing with dirt poor people that are living in these horrible conditions.
And they just decided to go with that as their title.
Look at this title.
Tell me, look at this.
Israel wants to bulldog...
Oh, they changed it to Ramshackle Village.
tom papa
Ramshackle Village.
joe rogan
Oh, they changed it, those fucks.
But Europe is providing life support.
Wow.
It was miserable village this morning.
tom papa
Ramshackle sounds kind of cute.
joe rogan
Ramshackle is still...
tom papa
It's like they're trying.
joe rogan
Yeah, Ramshackle is like okay if it's white people.
If you're talking about white people that live in trailer parks, he's got a ramshackle trailer park.
unidentified
Yeah, a corncob pipe and he hangs out and drinks from his jug at night.
joe rogan
He's got a bunch of cars on blocks in the yard.
tom papa
It's old.
It's not fancy, but it sure is ramshackle.
joe rogan
Yeah, that makes sense.
But this morning, the title was Miserable.
tom papa
Don't you feel that...
Writing in all of journalism, like, it's all leveled out.
Like, sometimes you read an article in the Huffington Post and they suck you into, like, some article.
And it's written by, like, a high school journalism student.
It's just sensational.
It just goes into three paragraphs in before it even comes out, like, the heading.
And then you read some stuff in the New York Times or other places.
And some of it's definitely much smarter, but some of it is a little opinionated, has these little things in it, and it's lazy.
It seems like because there's such a rush, you can't spend as much time on stories.
People get lazy and careless.
joe rogan
Well, I also think that when people are at their best, they write about what they love.
Like, if you read a really lazy article from a New York Times writer about something, maybe that guy would write an amazing article about handmade furniture.
You know what I'm saying?
Because maybe he's really into handmade furniture.
But there's a lot of articles that people are writing, and they're just fucking just trying to get them done.
tom papa
Yeah.
But the problem is that a lot of that's in, like, news.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
It's not, you know.
joe rogan
Well, don't you feel that way about the news sometimes?
Like, enough.
I just, I can't do this anymore.
tom papa
You mean, digest the news?
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Oh, forget it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
That's one of my crusades.
For real.
I get the newspaper in the morning because I want to spend maybe 20 minutes, maybe a half hour looking at some news stories, and then that's it.
That's all Tom Papa needs to know about the world's events, because I can't do anything about it.
And if I just check in another half hour, check in another half hour, 24 hours of that...
joe rogan
Your day's gone.
tom papa
And you feel sick.
You're paranoid.
You're sick.
You're upset.
I turn the news off.
It's a barrage.
joe rogan
And I need to talk to the fucking New York Times about what constitutes breaking news.
Listen, New York Times, just because Anthony Weiner got busted sexting again, that's not fucking breaking news.
tom papa
That's a pretty great story, though.
joe rogan
It's a good story, but it's not breaking news.
tom papa
The New York Times is saying that's breaking news, though?
joe rogan
Breaking news is war.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
War is breaking news.
Earthquake, breaking news.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Those are breaking news stories.
The other shit is just a story.
tom papa
Yeah, right.
joe rogan
It's not breaking.
It's not super critical.
tom papa
But, you know, you have to keep feeding the beast 24 hours a day, and they've got to keep you in, so they have to make it urgent.
Beast hungry.
Watch this video.
joe rogan
Insatiable desire for content.
unidentified
By the way, I heard the earth is flat.
joe rogan
No, really?
Really?
unidentified
Nom, nom, nom.
joe rogan
More content.
tom papa
And how are they going to make you pay attention to the content?
By scaring the shit out of you.
joe rogan
Scaring the shit out of you or making you angry.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Or writing something ridiculous like, sexism is why women like to drink.
tom papa
That is ridiculous.
Are you sure that was the New York Times?
joe rogan
100%.
100%.
Find it, Jamie.
Jamie's on it.
tom papa
Because I was at the New York Times building because of the sourdough article.
joe rogan
And I saw no such thing.
tom papa
It was pretty cool to watch.
I mean, it was cool to, like, be inside the New York Times.
joe rogan
Well, this was my point about Huffington Post when you were saying that it's written by a high school kid.
It could easily have been.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, there's a lot of contributors to the Huffington Post.
A lot of contributors to a lot of these online news sources.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
How Wall Street bros talk women down.
That's not it.
No, it was out today.
Yeah, it's about sexism and drinking.
Sexism and drinking.
That the patriarchy makes women drink.
It was like the pressure of dealing with sexism all day makes women drink.
It's so unbelievably ridiculous, but for anybody who hates those arguments, it's beautiful because it's so stupid that it's like self-parody.
It's so dumb.
Oh, really?
That's what makes you drink?
Because everybody who doesn't drink, how come it doesn't work on them?
tom papa
It's almost like that headline is to a level of, this will piss them off.
joe rogan
Yes.
tom papa
Right?
joe rogan
Exactly.
And here we are talking about it.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
So she might be right.
You know?
I mean, definitely women must face sexism.
Because a lot of men are sexist.
For sure.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But men are pigs.
If you have to work with a guy for eight hours a day for five years, if he's not gonna try to fuck you, he's gonna be thinking about fucking you all the time, and he's definitely gonna play like little games.
tom papa
Yeah.
See how far he can go.
unidentified
Yeah.
Test it.
joe rogan
See what he can say.
See what you say when he says this.
tom papa
Look, we work with guys.
When they are completely free.
When we're alone with a guy, like when you're in school or whatever and working with people, you know, you get jobs with these men, you know.
And when we're alone with them, the shit that is said, I mean, right?
I mean, it's unfiltered.
It is brutal about everyone in the office, about their wives.
They're pulling out their parts.
joe rogan
It's not the same story.
This is the opposite of that.
It says sexism isn't driving women to drink.
jamie vernon
I found something.
I'm not seeing something from the Times, though.
joe rogan
Okay, I'll send it to you.
I'll find it.
Here, I'll email it to you.
It doesn't matter.
I don't even need to look at it.
It's just an article.
tom papa
But you know what I mean?
Men are such pigs.
joe rogan
We are pigs.
tom papa
For sure.
You could be in an office with another guy and you know the coast is clear.
The stuff that is...
So for him to walk out and be as cool...
joe rogan
And we would both look at each other and go, you know, this never leaves this room.
tom papa
Right.
And that would be it.
joe rogan
What I would do to her.
Conversations.
unidentified
Oof.
tom papa
And then they walk out among all the people, and that they can keep it together, like knowing what we know, that they can keep it together when they're mixed with everybody else is kind of astounding.
joe rogan
I feel like the more likely a man is to wear loafers with those tassels, the more likely he has to have these deep, dark visions and fantasies.
tom papa
Absolutely.
joe rogan
You get out of him if you just get a couple cocktails in him.
tom papa
Yeah, because he's probably pretty wealthy.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Probably makes a good living and probably has been married to the same woman for quite a long time, has children, probably has some sort of religious affiliation.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Most likely, depending upon the business you're in.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
And deep desires.
unidentified
The beast.
joe rogan
If you're working with that guy, it's almost crazier than living with him.
Think about it.
If your wife works all day, say if you work all day, your wife works all day, you're not seeing each other for nine hours out of the day.
Travel time.
This is if you're super lucky.
Then, you come home, how long are you awake for?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Three hours?
Four hours at the most?
Five?
tom papa
And of those three hours, how much is, like, really good time with each other?
joe rogan
Exactly.
How much time is, like, stop fighting!
Don't do that!
That's not yours!
No, no, no.
Yours looks like that, but yours is different.
The reality is, if your wife works with some fucking creepy dude, that creepy dude sees her more than you do.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I think work environments are very strange for human beings.
I'm not saying that we shouldn't engage in them, but what I'm saying is that being in a traditional work environment where you're working your way up the corporate ladder so everybody's full of shit, everybody's at a certain point in time saying the thing that's the right thing to say for their career versus what they really feel about things.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
There's probably not a lot of room for opinion.
A lot of it is about the company and how important the company is.
And then fucking, if you're lucky, you get to like crack a joke by the water cooler, right?
That's like your little freedom of the day.
Or maybe they let you dress your cubicle up.
You could have like a little fucking Star Wars guy in your cubicle.
tom papa
Joe's a wild man.
Show him your socks.
joe rogan
Look, I have the Death Star in my cubicle.
I'm a big Star Wars fan.
I can't wait for the next episode.
tom papa
He's the guy when people come up to you and go, oh, there's a guy in my office.
He is so funny.
It's that Star Wars guy.
joe rogan
It's like that Thoreau quote, that most men live lives of silent desperation.
And I'm sure most women, too.
I think most humans.
There's a lot of doing shit you don't want to do.
tom papa
Do you know what I find, though?
People who are in those jobs, and they get pretty high up, and they're creative people, whatever, they don't question things as much as we do.
They can't!
Yeah, but I think that's why they're able to get into it, also.
I don't think their heads are...
joe rogan
I wonder if that's what causes it.
Or if that's a mindset that one sort of boxes themselves into at an early age?
tom papa
It's probably a little of both.
But I definitely have a couple friends who are just fun guys.
They've been working in corporations their whole careers, and they just don't question it.
There's never a part of them that's ever thought...
What am I doing?
They just got out of school and said, let's go, we're gonna go do this, and then I can go watch the Rangers and it'll be fine.
And they don't think about it.
And he was always that way.
He just kind of slid in, and it's almost like ignorance is bliss in those situations.
joe rogan
Well, those guys generally like to drink.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That's a big one, because the drinking is the best way to say who gives a fuck.
At the end of the day, when you're done with your work, you have a couple of pops with the boys, and all of a sudden you're laughing, who gives a shit about the stock profile?
Who gives a shit about the lawn?
Who gives a shit?
tom papa
I would be in that environment like, oh my god, he's acting like a dick to me, and what is he trying to do, and why do they hate me so much?
Those guys are just like, screw him, he's an asshole.
unidentified
Fuck that ass.
joe rogan
And they keep going.
unidentified
And they keep going.
joe rogan
Hey, you gotta work with the guy.
tom papa
Right, exactly.
What are you gonna do?
That's Don.
joe rogan
That's one of the things that separates alcohol from marijuana.
Like, that's like the dividing line between how it makes you look at things in your life that aren't desirable.
It changes them, like, really radically.
Because alcohol, like, ah, it gives a fuck.
But marijuana will go, dude, you gotta do something about this.
This is fucking with your head all the time.
And you know it's fucking with your head.
It's in the background of everything you do.
It's constantly looming over you, shadowing you, like a backhand.
What?
What about work?
unidentified
What about this?
tom papa
This is why you don't read philosophy.
You're just opening up, opening up, and there's no way to solve it.
joe rogan
It's the pot.
It's the goddamn pot.
That's why it's illegal.
It would ruin this fucking society.
It would ruin the fiber of society.
People would stop all these jobs.
I was hoping that pot legalization coincides with excellent new robots that can do shitty jobs.
That it all flows together.
tom papa
The way you do with all those people that are now running through the streets.
unidentified
Oh, Papa.
tom papa
Oh, let the robots kill them?
joe rogan
The robots are going to eat them.
They're going to use them as fuel.
Didn't you see the Matrix?
tom papa
Each robot that kills one of those people wears its face.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
They're going to have a Taco Bell fan club, and whoever shows up, those are the first people that get eaten.
You know, things like that.
Things that are really obvious robot traps.
tom papa
Water parks.
joe rogan
No, but those are kids.
I'm talking about for grown adults.
There's got to be some really obvious traps.
unidentified
You've got to take care of us.
joe rogan
Robots just eat people.
You have to look at them.
There's a few rogue robots.
Like there's, you know, viruses that computers catch.
A few rogue robots found out they can eat people and they just go off and eat people.
But they're very ethical about it.
They eat the dumbest fucking people they could find.
It's like a crocodile doesn't go after the fastest gazelle.
It goes by that wounded motherfucker that limps up to the waterhole and just gets jacked.
The wounded old one that can't hear anything anymore.
It's got one gray eye.
tom papa
Why is everybody running?
joe rogan
That's who the crocodile gets.
And so much like the crocodile, the robots that eat people will become like the natural predators, the weeders of the week.
tom papa
Just walking through our culture.
joe rogan
They're no better than to just gang up and attack a city.
Because we'll just make it rain on them or something.
And they'll all rust and explode or something.
And we'll shoot them.
We have guns.
We know they're coming.
We can keep an eye on them.
But if they can just talk really fucking stupid people into traps and then just eat them.
tom papa
And do our bidding.
joe rogan
Like a Taco Bell fan club.
Are you a fan of Taco Bell?
We are too!
Come celebrate Taco Bell fan night.
And you go there.
tom papa
Come on down.
joe rogan
It's not even free food.
They just give away like Taco Bell t-shirts and hats and shit.
And people are like, I'm fucking psyched about Taco Bell, bro.
I got three choices on my corner.
I got Burger King, I got Wendy's.
I always go to Taco Bell.
Taco Bell's my shit.
tom papa
Look at this free t-shirt.
They're the best.
joe rogan
They're the best.
The quality of their ingredients is unprecedented.
unidentified
I got it.
tom papa
They get me, man.
joe rogan
People will get fucking seriously into it.
Like, it would be ridiculous to get that way about Taco Bell, but it's not ridiculous to get that way over Apple.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Do you know how many fucking people...
When I was working on news radio, that was like during the days before OS X. So this was like the days of like Windows 95. And the operating system for Mac was all, like, it wasn't that good.
And the way I've seen it be described, like, the interface is really cool.
Like, the way you use it was very simple and easy to remember.
And a lot of creative type people like to use it for a bunch of different reasons.
But there was no memory protection.
There was no preemptive multitasking.
It was like a clunky operating system for, like, high-end users.
Like, they didn't code video games on them.
People that really needed them.
And obviously, I'm regurgitating, regurgitating, because I don't know shit about computers other than what I've read.
unidentified
You're doing good.
tom papa
I'm believing it.
joe rogan
These people that I was working with on news radio were fucking radical Mac fanatics.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They were radical.
And like the news would come out, well, we're going to get them with this new operating system.
This new operating system is me.
LSX was coming out.
I was like, we're going to get them with OSX. OSX. It was actually pre-OSX. I want to say OSX came out in the early 2000s.
tom papa
Yeah, what was before that?
joe rogan
Shit.
It was terrible.
tom papa
Yeah, but you used it.
I used it too.
joe rogan
I used to use it too because I remember there was no viruses for it.
No one had figured out how to make a virus for Macs yet, but there was a ton of them for PCs.
And I caught one once.
I caught a fucking bug, bro.
tom papa
Dude, I caught it.
joe rogan
Somebody sent me a Microsoft Word package, a script or something like that, and I read it and it had a virus in it.
And then I sent something to a friend of mine, and it had the virus in it.
It had connected to all my Microsoft Word documents.
But my friend was like a super genius tech guy.
He's like, hey, fuckface.
unidentified
He sent me a virus, you stupid cunt.
tom papa
He knew right away.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, he scans all his email.
He's like super paranoid.
So he scanned his shit, and he's like, yeah.
This ain't working, bro.
tom papa
I'm disseminating virus, folks.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
I had to bring my daughters in to Apple because someone hacked all the browsers and just couldn't do anything.
And he went in there, this guy at the Genius Bar was...
joe rogan
Someone hacked the browsers?
What'd they do?
tom papa
Yeah, they hacked the browsers.
Put a malware.
Malware.
It's called malware.
joe rogan
And how does that...
You get that from porn sites?
tom papa
I hope not.
It's my daughter's computer.
unidentified
How old is she?
tom papa
14. Probably porn sites.
No!
No!
joe rogan
It's probably only a gay point though.
A bunch of dudes fucking each other.
If I was a girl, I'd want to know.
What are they doing over there?
And do I like it?
You know?
Because if guys stumble across a video of two girls fingering each other while making out real softly, we get very excited about it.
Like, whoa, look at this.
Whoa.
You feel like you've stumbled across something.
But if you stumble across two dudes butt-fucking, you're watching a crime.
Watching a violent encounter.
Even if they love each other, they'd probably say, look, I love you, you love me, but we're going to do some dirty shit to each other for the next whatever minutes it takes.
It's going to get ugly up with this bitch.
tom papa
Well, the guy at the Genius Bar did not seem to think that's what my daughter was watching.
He said probably Spotify or Antara.
joe rogan
Fucking Spotify!
Spotify and their gay porn obsession.
tom papa
But he just went in and ripped it all out.
He was just like, went in a couple files, like, oh, malware, yeah.
Look how they're directing you.
Look where they put the stuff in your extensions.
joe rogan
Whoa!
tom papa
Yeah, and got it all out.
joe rogan
Fucking geniuses.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, that's a real genius at a Genius Bar.
tom papa
He was.
He was pretty good.
joe rogan
Because that's a pretentious title.
tom papa
Genius Bar.
joe rogan
I work at the Genius Bar at Apple.
Trust me.
tom papa
I'm right.
joe rogan
The earth is flat.
unidentified
Stop it.
tom papa
The Earth's not flat.
joe rogan
Not anymore.
It's rounding itself out over the years.
It's gaining weight like all of us.
What were we talking about?
Oh, so this malware thing, they don't know where she got it from, but they could just pull it out?
tom papa
Yeah, they just go in, they kind of just tore it all out.
joe rogan
They didn't have to reinstall the operating system or reformat the hard drive?
unidentified
No, no, it's all good.
joe rogan
I wonder if it shows up in like Time Machine.
You know, you do your Time Machine backups.
I wonder if Time Machine backups have malware in them.
tom papa
No, I don't think so.
joe rogan
No?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
They just backup critical files?
tom papa
Yeah, and then it's another backup.
joe rogan
But if the files are infected, I mean, there's got to be a way.
How does Windows do it?
Do you know how Windows does their backups?
tom papa
No idea.
joe rogan
Is it something that's done inside the operating system?
Everybody looks like I'm asking, do you know how to do Morse code?
Do you know smoke signals?
tom papa
Windows, no!
joe rogan
Windows looks great to me.
I'm so confused.
And I know I'm an idiot, okay?
Don't get me wrong.
But I went to the store the other day because I'm buying a TV. I wanted to look at the newest TVs, which are fucking sweet.
tom papa
With the curve?
joe rogan
Nah, I'm not into the curve.
That's a gimmick.
It's gonna go away.
Trust me.
tom papa
The new one's the HPTI? Oh, the 4K? Yeah.
joe rogan
Good lord, they look good.
tom papa
Do they?
joe rogan
Yeah, well, they get you at the store, first of all, because what they're showing you is a loop, and that loop is like super high-definition stuff.
It's all leopards and shit and fucking perfect snakes and flowers and waterfalls.
You're like, fuck!
tom papa
Amazing music.
joe rogan
Yeah, I just want to stare at it all day.
I just want to look at this all day.
But if you went home and watched, like, you know, fucking Game of Thrones on it, it's not going to look that good.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
Game of Thrones is not filmed like that.
It's not filmed in that super 4K. Yeah, what is?
Very few things.
Netflix is doing their specials in it, though.
tom papa
They are?
joe rogan
My new Netflix special's in 4K. You can see how shitty I look in real life.
tom papa
Yeah, it's a little too close.
joe rogan
You can see real deep, the slow deterioration of the aging process.
tom papa
He has a lot of pores.
joe rogan
That motherfucker's getting skin on his face.
It's sort of loose.
See how it's like, it's there, but it's like...
unidentified
It shakes.
joe rogan
It's not like...
Clinging on.
This is like this.
You don't go like from here to like Ted Kennedy.
tom papa
It's not touted.
joe rogan
Remember Ted Kennedy before he died?
He had that...
tom papa
Yeah, like a big basset hound.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You don't go from this manly chiseled face to that.
What you do is you go from this to what I got going on right now.
There's just a little too much elasticity.
tom papa
A little loose.
joe rogan
A little too, not tight enough.
I want to say elasticity, yeah, because elasticity would allow it to snap back.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's a little too little elasticity.
tom papa
It's just getting kind of light and fluffy.
joe rogan
I need more collagen in my diet.
tom papa
It's kind of falling off your face, and there's no way to stop it.
joe rogan
There is, apparently.
tom papa
No, there's not.
joe rogan
Apparently, there's the same doctor who invented Regenikine, which is a process that I used to deal with a bulging disc.
They take your blood out, and it's kind of like platelet-rich plasma in a way, except they heat it up.
And by heating up your blood, your blood produces a response to the heat, and it creates this yellow serum.
And this yellow serum, they spin in a centrifuge and then extract that yellow serum.
And it's one of the most potent anti-inflammatory medicines ever.
Ever discovered?
unidentified
I discovered a lot of inventions.
joe rogan
Ever discovered and your body doesn't reject it because it's your own blood.
And it has a great effect on people with like inflammation injuries and helping healing times.
tom papa
So what did it do for you?
You had the...
joe rogan
My discs were bulging from repeated use from jiu-jitsu, from just too much sparring and not enough time off and getting injured and not taking enough time off in between the injury and getting right back into it.
Because jiu-jitsu is really fun.
It's really fun.
It's like a video game, like that kind of fun, or like I like to play pool.
But it's way more exciting than that.
And the only way you could do it, you've got to do it with your body.
So it's like you have this game piece that you're playing with, and this game piece is getting banged up all the time.
tom papa
An old controller.
joe rogan
Yeah, and so I was developing some back issues from numb fingers, and usually those indicate that your disc is pushing against a nerve.
So it means the disc is bulging out.
So then I went through a bunch of things with spinal decompression, and And Regenikine was a big part of that.
So this guy who developed Regenikine, all these athletes like Peyton Manning, Kobe Bryant, they all flew to Germany to get this procedure.
And then slowly they brought it up to the United States and now they do it in California.
And they do it in Santa Monica is where I had it done, but I think they do it also in Dallas, and they do it in a couple other places, maybe Las Vegas.
The same doctor who came up with this procedure has some new procedure that they're preparing to release, which is going to kickstart the production of collagen in people.
And that is the thing that makes your skin look like shit.
That's the thing that makes your face sag, and your wrinkles appear, and your body just looks like an old bag.
tom papa
What, your collagen goes away?
joe rogan
Exactly.
tom papa
Collagen is like your...
Stuffing in your face, basically?
Your mushy stuffing?
joe rogan
Collagen is, it's responsible for a lot of the elasticity of your skin.
It's responsible for a lot of other things as well, but the elasticity of your skin is apparently a lot of it's based on your body's healthy production of collagen.
tom papa
So we're losing it now, and we're getting...
Just a little loose underneath the jaw.
joe rogan
Just a little loose under this, yeah.
Right.
Thermatite.
What is this?
Injectable...
What is this?
What is this, Jamie?
jamie vernon
This is a collagen injection.
unidentified
Yeah.
jamie vernon
It looks like just a little video of it.
joe rogan
Oh, this looks like they're tightening you down.
tom papa
Oh, that's a collagen.
Right, people get collagen just injected into their face.
joe rogan
They get collagen injected.
tom papa
How long does that last?
joe rogan
I don't know.
This is all new stuff that has been talked to me by people who have gone over to Germany and talked to this guy and had procedures done by this guy.
tom papa
And did it help your spine?
joe rogan
Oh yeah, huge.
tom papa
It did?
joe rogan
It made a big difference.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Big, big difference.
Yeah.
Yeah, big difference in relief, big difference in recovery time.
I did a bunch of different things.
I was pretty proactive about it.
The spinal decompression.
I did a lot of rolfing, which is like the super painful, torturous method of massage.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Where they're manipulating your limbs and digging their elbows into your back.
Sounds good.
Was this football player dude?
He was huge.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Big giant dude.
tom papa
And just peed the crap out of you.
joe rogan
Oh, he fucked me up.
It was rough.
tom papa
There's nothing worse than when you get a massage and it's just like this little girl hand.
joe rogan
I hate that.
Yeah, I'm used to the painful ones.
But those are the ones, the painful ones are the ones that break up the tissue and allow it all to relax and heal better.
And that helped a lot.
The decompression helped a lot.
That was a big part of it.
tom papa
So are you able to tell how much this process helped?
joe rogan
Oh yeah, yeah.
tom papa
I got an MRI. Oh yeah?
joe rogan
Well, I don't know how much that process helped overall because I did them all together.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
But everything together worked awesome.
So I don't have a bulge at all anymore.
Which is really important to talk about because there's a lot of people that get bulging discs and they immediately want to go get surgery.
And in some cases that's the right move.
In some cases, like Eddie Bravo, a good friend of mine, had a disc replaced on his back.
And Eddie is a longtime jiu-jitsu guy and his disc had been squashed and deteriorated so much that it was essentially like bone on bone.
It was lower back.
Constant state of inflammation.
So in that case, the doctors decided it was a very smart move to replace the disc with these new titanium discs that they have.
They have some pretty cool artificial discs.
Yeah, it's got to be good.
tom papa
But his was special case.
joe rogan
Yeah, his was really bad for a long period of time.
But there's other injuries where you could mitigate all the issues without surgery.
It's just going to take a little time.
Just like it took time to create the injury, it's going to take time to heal it.
And spinal decompression is big.
Even those things where you hang by your ankles, just doing that a little bit every day is really good for pain, really good for relief of your lower back.
There's also the other ones you could do with your neck.
I have one that's like a harness that straps to my neck, and it hangs from a door.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
joe rogan
Yeah, and then you can actually pull it, and it stretches your neck out.
You can feel it relaxing your neck.
tom papa
It's attached to the door?
joe rogan
Yeah, it attaches to the top.
tom papa
It's like a harness kind of thing for your head?
joe rogan
Yeah, it's like this metal bracket.
That clamps down on the top of the door, and then it has this arm that comes off of it, and then a rope comes down from the arm, which is attached to this Velcro face thing.
You put it on, you Velcro it in place so it's tight, and then you pull on the string.
It's like click, click, click, click, click, and it's just like a gentle pull on your neck.
tom papa
I could use that right now.
joe rogan
Oh, it's great, man.
tom papa
I'm not lying.
joe rogan
That's it right there.
That's what it looks like.
tom papa
Oh, you look cool, too.
joe rogan
Ooh, yeah.
tom papa
He looks like he has his head in a diaper.
joe rogan
As I pull on that thing, I can feel the relaxation.
And if you do it on a regular basis, it really does offer you some nice relief.
Again, no affiliation with any of these companies.
These are just some things I used.
tom papa
You can put it in the door jam and not have it land on your head as you're hanging.
joe rogan
Yeah, you've got to be careful because one time it did fucking ding me in the head.
tom papa
It did?
joe rogan
Yeah, I was an asshole.
I didn't tighten it down right.
tom papa
That's what I'd be worried about.
joe rogan
And when it came down, it fucking dinged me in the forehead and left this big cut.
And I was doing all this press for Spike.
Spike TV, because it was at the same time where I was doing, or sci-fi rather, because it was the same time I was doing Joe Rogan Questions Everything, this TV show.
So all the press shit I did with a divot in my head, like this.
tom papa
But for Spike, it probably helped.
joe rogan
It was sci-fi.
tom papa
I don't know if it helped for sci-fi.
joe rogan
But anyway, those things were all really good.
tom papa
Yeah, something happened just in the last two days, sleeping and woke up.
joe rogan
Can happen.
Yoga.
tom papa
Oh, I love yoga.
joe rogan
Yoga's the thing, man.
Hot yoga.
That fucking clears all that up.
I don't like the hot yoga.
Oh, that's how to do it.
tom papa
I like the regular yoga where I'm sweating like a pig already.
joe rogan
Yeah, but hot yoga just opens you up, baby.
Just an extra little millimeter of stretch you get out of it all.
tom papa
No, it's too hot.
joe rogan
Yeah, but it's also mental toughness.
You've got to build mental toughness.
90 minutes in that class.
tom papa
I'm tough enough.
joe rogan
You are tough enough.
tom papa
What do I need it for?
joe rogan
I don't know.
tom papa
How tough do I have to be?
joe rogan
That's what I'm just saying.
unidentified
I just got to pick my kids up and try not to drink.
joe rogan
I think sexism is causing you to drink.
I've been meaning to talk to you.
tom papa
Really?
I mean, look, we all know that men are awful, and we attack and do horrible things, and you've yelled at us now, and we're dealing with it.
Now back off.
We know there's a problem.
We're working on it.
Don't have to write articles 12 times a day.
joe rogan
Is it okay to only want to work with men?
Say if you start a company.
At what size can the company be before you've got to start hiring women?
Like right now, Joe Rogan Experience, Enterprises, very small company.
There's only a couple employees.
And they happen to be male.
tom papa
One more hire.
joe rogan
But what if we keep going?
What if eventually I hire 50 people?
Was anybody going to say, why do you have 50 dudes?
tom papa
Yeah!
joe rogan
How come?
tom papa
Because you're not meeting the quota.
joe rogan
Is that really the case, or is it that these are the people that I want, and I just happen to find out they're all men?
tom papa
You have to, at a certain...
Now you have to hire and meet these numbers.
What's the number, though?
The number is probably like 40% of your staff.
joe rogan
No, no, no.
I mean, at what number does your...
I can get away with it with two people.
tom papa
I think, yeah, I think if you bring in one more person...
unidentified
Really?
tom papa
It's going to be a problem.
joe rogan
If I bring in one girl, it's going to be a problem.
She's going to hear some of the shit Jamie says when the mic's off.
She's going to go, what the fuck?
tom papa
She's just going to be quietly building a case against you.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ!
Dude, that does happen, man.
tom papa
Yeah, look at Anthony Weiner.
joe rogan
Well, that's a different case.
But I know this girl who worked with this guy.
This is actually the sister of a good friend of mine.
Why am I giving you all the details?
You're going to know who it is.
Anyway, she worked with this guy for years, writing down any time he said anything inappropriate and building a file.
But all anecdotal.
I mean, all, you know, clearly her word against his that he said all these things.
But she made this file of all the inappropriate things that he had said at picnics included everywhere.
Company picnics.
She wrote a bunch of things down.
And she was thinking about suing the company.
I was like, bitch, they are going to bury you.
Are you out of your fucking mind?
tom papa
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
Like, what were these things?
Unless they were, like, really fucked up.
tom papa
But that's the thing, like you were saying before, about why working in a corporation would be so bizarre.
He's thinking that he has a good relationship with her, and she probably doesn't dislike him.
You know what I mean?
There's this play acting that they're doing all the time.
No one's really being honest, ever.
joe rogan
There's also the real possibility that you could make some money if you sue them.
tom papa
Yeah!
joe rogan
Big money!
Kids grow up today knowing about...
Here's a lawsuit example that's insane.
There was a woman...
Who was a single woman, a single mom, and she had this kid, and she brought the kid over to my house, and the kid stayed over to my house for a long-ass time.
Like, she was supposed to pick the kid up at four, and then she didn't show up until eight.
tom papa
Oh, boy.
joe rogan
It was weird.
tom papa
It was weird.
joe rogan
It was one of those weird ones.
tom papa
It's really neat.
joe rogan
And she was also just slightly sketchy.
It was just something slight...
And this is one of the things you deal with when you deal...
You know, your kids are going to school.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
A bunch of different people you run into, and then...
You have to interact with these people.
You're not exactly sure what to get out of it.
So she left her kid at this other lady's house, and the other lady had a little dog.
I mean, a little fucking dog.
The dog jumped up and did the pawing thing and left a visible scratch on the girl's leg.
She sued them for $100,000.
tom papa
What?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
What?
joe rogan
Yeah.
She said the dog attacked her daughter.
Might be 50 grand.
Maybe she got 50. That is gross.
Trying to remember what the numbers were.
But it was like, whoa.
Oh my god.
This was this lady saying, we're in.
We got a shot here.
Got a shot here at some money.
tom papa
With people you go to school with and see all the time.
That's how awful you are.
joe rogan
It was just, the dog didn't bite anybody.
It just jumped up because it got excited.
tom papa
It's being a dog.
joe rogan
Like dogs do.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And it, you know, I could get, if it was my dog and he did it to someone's daughter, I'd be very upset.
I'd do whatever the fuck I could do to make it better.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
But it's not like the dog was a biter.
tom papa
But legally...
joe rogan
Like a bad dog.
tom papa
Yeah.
Legally, does she have a case?
You're coming into a house with a dog.
joe rogan
The issue is, with a lot of lawsuits, it will cost you more to fight it than it will for you to just settle.
So a lot of people just settle.
Say it'll cost you $10,000 to settle, but it'll cost you $50,000 to fight it.
That's all real.
People have to consider those things.
tom papa
You should fight it, though, just to stick it to her.
joe rogan
Well, the UFC told us to not take photos choking people.
Like, people ask you, hey, put me to rear naked choke, because two people got sued.
One of them was Chuck O'Dell, and one of them was Matt Hughes.
The Matt Hughes one is crazy, because this guy asks Matt Hughes to put him in a chokehold.
People do that shit all the time.
Matt obliges him.
Then the guy uses the photo.
Tries to sue Matt Hughes, says Matt hurt him, and here's the evidence, the photo evidence that he hurt him.
Then, here's where it gets even crazier.
They do an investigation of this guy, find out he's a cop.
Then, they go deeper, find out he's a dirty cop.
And he gets arrested and kicked off the force.
tom papa
Oh, man.
joe rogan
Well, he's a scam artist.
tom papa
Yeah, he's a scammer.
joe rogan
I mean, he's a scammer that just happened to figure out how to become a cop.
unidentified
Ugh, gross.
joe rogan
You know, he hadn't fucked up enough by the time he was, you know, X amount of years old that he couldn't get disqualified from being a cop.
tom papa
Jeez.
joe rogan
Isn't that crazy?
tom papa
That is gross.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
I know.
That's another reason why you shouldn't let your kids play with other kids.
joe rogan
Yeah, you gotta keep them at home, right?
Don't ever let them out.
tom papa
Man, just having to talk to everybody when they're picking up the kids.
joe rogan
You know what's great, though, dude?
tom papa
They don't want to talk to you, you don't want to talk to them, and the kids won't put their shoes on, and you're standing there for a half hour just staring at each other trying to get through it.
joe rogan
Leave the shoes on and stay inside.
tom papa
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
Yeah, I do.
tom papa
It's hard.
joe rogan
But don't you love it when you find a parent that you actually like?
tom papa
For sure.
joe rogan
Oh, that's an oasis.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
That's an oasis in the fucking desert.
Thank God.
tom papa
They're laughing.
joe rogan
They're normal.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Oh my God, they can talk to me.
tom papa
Yeah, I can drink with this guy, no problem.
joe rogan
I can talk to them.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
We're going to be friends.
Holy shit, I can't believe I'm going to be friends with a parent.
We found one.
I knew they were out there.
tom papa
Then do you meet parents who you know don't like you?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, for sure.
tom papa
You just feel it.
For sure.
You can just feel it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
You're always going to have that, man.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
There's going to be parents who want to fuck your wife.
tom papa
What?
joe rogan
For sure.
unidentified
No.
joe rogan
Yeah, they're going to meet her.
They're going to say, maybe if Tom dies, I'm in.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I just know that I could do a better job.
tom papa
There's a couple I can name.
joe rogan
He doesn't understand.
She's complicated, you know?
She's not difficult.
She just requires more and gives more back.
tom papa
That's so...
joe rogan
It's complicated.
unidentified
I'm not.
tom papa
I'm not saying it's bad.
I mean, he goes on the road a lot.
I'm just saying I wouldn't do that.
joe rogan
I wouldn't go on the road.
What would I do?
I'd be a stay-at-home dad.
I'd adjust my income accordingly.
tom papa
I mean, because I just feel like being with you would be more important than getting applause from strangers.
joe rogan
Well, first and foremost, I'm a feminist.
And as a feminist, I always do what women want me to do.
tom papa
He doesn't tell you you're beautiful every day.
I mean, I'm not judging him.
I would do it.
joe rogan
That's a requirement.
That's something you have to say.
It's just something you want to say anyway.
And I would want to say, especially since it's true.
But it's true.
And you say it.
Okay?
You just do.
Just do better.
Just do better.
Period.
Just do better.
tom papa
It's hard being a dad.
But you know what I'm finding is the older you get, the less you run into people.
Because once they're in high school, they start to just...
They don't involve the parents at all.
They don't want the parents around.
joe rogan
Right.
tom papa
Now, you have to make an effort to be like, Hey, I want to see some of these parents before I let you go over to their house.
Because now it's getting real.
joe rogan
It's a good point.
Yeah, because they're...
tom papa
It's when they're little.
joe rogan
Those fucking weirdos.
Yeah.
tom papa
When they're little, they really have you...
There's some weird stuff that goes on.
Like, people having parties at, like...
My daughter had, she was 12, I think, or 13. And the party, the kids' party was held at the stand.
Not the stand, the strand.
You know, the fancy hotel on Sunset.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
What's it, the stand?
joe rogan
I think it's the stand.
Standard.
tom papa
Standard.
Thank you.
This is how uncool I am.
I've gotten there twice.
joe rogan
I've eaten there a hundred times.
tom papa
We work at the Comedy Store across the street.
Literally across the street.
joe rogan
Have you ever gone to that diner there?
It's open really late.
It might be 24 hours.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
joe rogan
Yeah.
It's amazing.
It's really good food.
tom papa
But it's also a place where when you're new to Hollywood, you have parties there and there's a lot of people with coke and running around naked.
joe rogan
Dude, I took a picture.
I was there once.
Rampage Jackson came out of the back with sunglasses on, no shirt on, and a fur coat and two super hot Chinese chicks.
And I took a picture of him.
It was back in the day before Instagram and Twitter.
I put it up online somewhere.
I doubt if you can find it.
If you can find that, you're a fucking wizard.
But that is the standard.
It's probably from like 2004 or something like that.
tom papa
It's still the same today.
And my daughter's like, they're having a party.
In the one room and the parents are having a party in the other room.
joe rogan
That's ridiculous.
tom papa
It's just parties that want to get fucked up and then we'll put the kids in that room.
joe rogan
Oh my god.
tom papa
So my daughter was going to go to a party.
I'm not dropping you off at valet at the standard.
joe rogan
That's so stupid.
Definitely fucked up things are going to happen.
Those parents aren't paying any attention.
tom papa
No!
joe rogan
They're trying to bone each other.
tom papa
L.A., you know.
joe rogan
There's an instance of parents boning each other.
tom papa
Oh, yeah?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Not in my kid's school, but one of my kid's friend's school.
Really?
The moms are all talking about it.
tom papa
That's good stuff.
joe rogan
Parents got together.
They got they freak on.
tom papa
You know it's the sign?
You know it's the sign?
joe rogan
What?
tom papa
When they want to travel with you.
That's when it all goes down.
The swapping happens a lot on those vacations.
When someone comes to you and is like, hey, you want to go to the Grand Canyon with me and Carol?
joe rogan
We all camp.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, you don't want camping.
tom papa
Camping's a bad one.
joe rogan
Camping's tough.
You gotta do, like, hotels where there's, like, a gym that's 24 hours and it's, like, the middle of the night.
You're like, I just feel like getting a lift in.
unidentified
And you both scoot off to one of those massage rooms.
tom papa
I think camping would be an easy one too.
Just going to the bathroom in the woods.
joe rogan
The problem is the woods are quiet.
Yeah, you're going to hear everything.
You're going to hear it all.
It's just the woods are not the best sleep either.
You wake up real easy.
You're kind of on edge because you're sleeping on the ground with animals.
You're laying on the ground where animals live.
tom papa
Hey, I just got back from Africa.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah, you're right.
tom papa
I slept in a tent like that.
joe rogan
Oh, my God.
tom papa
It's not a floppy tent, but like a...
joe rogan
A wall tent?
tom papa
A wall tent.
joe rogan
Yeah, where'd you go?
tom papa
And listen to lions all night long.
Literally.
It sounded like it was literally in our bed.
joe rogan
Is that safe?
tom papa
For hours.
He was about...
About 300 yards away.
joe rogan
Oh, totally safe.
tom papa
With a dead zebra.
And he was basically through the night telling his family, you know, for miles.
joe rogan
Where the zebra is?
tom papa
Hey, that's the line I took.
Hey, that's my thing.
joe rogan
That's your Instagram page, fella.
Tom Papa.
tom papa
Literally, like, hearing...
It felt like they were literally in our tent.
joe rogan
And what part of Africa did you go to?
tom papa
Tanzania.
joe rogan
Tanzania.
See, I was going to go to Tanzania, but I was scared that I would have had to give my kids a shot.
tom papa
Yeah, I did.
joe rogan
How old are your kids?
tom papa
11 and 14. And they had to get a typhoid shot.
joe rogan
They didn't have to get malaria?
tom papa
We took malaria medication once a day.
joe rogan
How bad is it?
tom papa
It gives you crazy vivid dreams.
People had said it might give us nightmares.
We would just come down in the morning like, what did you dream last night?
unidentified
Wow.
tom papa
I mean, like, so crystal clear, 4K, vivid dreams.
Really wild.
And as soon as you went off, the dreams went away.
joe rogan
And how long did you have to take it for?
tom papa
Two days before you go, the whole time you're there, and then...
A week after.
joe rogan
The whole time you're there, you take it?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Does it fuck you up?
tom papa
Malaria is real.
It's around.
It makes your stomach a little...
My wife's stomach was a mess because of it.
joe rogan
But that's it?
Just stomach ache?
tom papa
Excuse me, yeah.
joe rogan
Which can definitely fuck up your enjoyment of this experience, right?
tom papa
Yeah, but you know what?
Going to the bathroom a couple times to be six feet from a lion is like...
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
You just do it.
You know, I don't like that stuff.
I always feel like I'm going to get bit by a bug and never survive.
joe rogan
I feel like my kids are just too young for that.
tom papa
How old are they?
joe rogan
Six and eight.
I just don't want to give them malaria medication.
tom papa
They are.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Mine are 11 and 14, and this was the perfect time to take them.
The 14-year-old and the younger one at 11 is like, she's good.
She can travel.
She can eat food.
She can swallow pills.
She's like a person.
Any earlier than this, it would have been hard.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's got to be amazing though, huh?
tom papa
It's amazing.
It's kind of, it's mind-blowing.
You definitely have, you know, it's like one of those things, like you go on vacation, you're like, oh, this is going to blow me away.
You kind of have all these anticipation.
But then it always becomes a little more simple than that.
You just kind of hang in this place.
And...
By the end of it, you come back.
You're like, I'm still thinking about it.
You know what I mean?
It's like seeing a great movie and you can't get it out of your head.
It's like these things are...
Going to Africa is pretty...
It's pretty deep.
You know, like you really see just the beginning of everything.
joe rogan
Wow.
tom papa
It's kind of...
And it's just cool just being by these animals.
I mean, you literally buy all these animals.
joe rogan
About Africa, it's not just the beginning of everything, but in a lot of ways, it's still like that.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, it's one of the few places where you can go and there's indigenous tribes essentially all over the continent that are living in a, you know, really kind of primitive way.
tom papa
We took a balloon ride and the balloon guy...
joe rogan
We took a balloon ride?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, this isn't dangerous enough.
tom papa
We're going to add...
And this was right after the crash.
But anyway, we got in the balloon.
It wasn't the safest.
And he got off course.
So we drifted out of the Serengeti and the Grumetti River.
And we're just kind of going for a little bit.
And he brought it down in this clearing.
We ended up a little upside down.
A tribe that lives there comes running out.
They saw us coming down.
They started running.
They got sticks and robes.
And they come running.
And we land.
They've never seen this before.
They've never seen us before.
They've never seen this before.
And they're like, my daughter held up a cell phone and boys who are older than her, probably, you know, 15, ran, literally ran at the sight of a cell phone.
And it was like, and they're so primitive.
They're so basic.
They're living in these little places, just raising cattle and just doing their primitive things.
But I think I was more scared of them than the kids running from the cell phone.
Like, I didn't know.
I've only heard, like, Rwanda, you know, or the Bokram thing.
And I'm like, I don't know these people.
joe rogan
They could eat you.
tom papa
Yeah, they've got a robe on, but I've got two daughters with me, you know?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Who knows, this guy just gets in my face chewing on a root and getting crazy and like, I'm taking that one.
You landed in my territory.
I'm taking that one.
joe rogan
Dude.
tom papa
You know what I mean?
Would you be uneasy?
joe rogan
Fuck yeah.
tom papa
I was uneasy.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, you don't know how to speak their language.
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
If you land in a fucking balloon in South Central Chicago or South Side of Chicago, you're in trouble.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Right?
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You could land in a bad neighborhood anywhere in America in a fucking balloon and get in a heap load of trouble.
tom papa
But I felt bad about myself that I'm assuming that I'm landing in that these people must be trouble.
But instinct kind of kicks in, you know what I mean?
joe rogan
What if you landed in like the swamps of Louisiana and nobody could hear you scream?
You wouldn't be weird?
Like if you landed in some fucking strange little swamp town?
Or a bunch of people just gator hunting.
That's all they do is to hunt gators.
tom papa
That's what it is.
It's the unknown.
It's not knowing.
All I needed was someone to say, have the balloon guy be like, these people are cool.
joe rogan
Yeah, these are my friends.
Hello!
tom papa
Right, they're mellow.
But no one was saying that.
Everyone was a little nervous too.
joe rogan
They cut hands and then they do the blood brother thing.
Like outlaw Josie Wales.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
He is my brother.
tom papa
He's my brother.
joe rogan
My brother of the jungle.
tom papa
They do that fake thing where they're about to fight and then hug at the last minute.
joe rogan
Like a terrible movie from like a Crocodile Dundee type movie.
tom papa
But you know what?
The people like the guy, the safari guy that came to pick us up and drive us back and he wasn't...
Cool with being there either.
joe rogan
Oh, really?
tom papa
No.
He was a little nervous.
He was kind of like checking around and like, okay, let's go.
joe rogan
Oh, God.
tom papa
He's like, you don't know.
They could ask for money because you landed on their bushes.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
Right.
tom papa
Anything could go down.
joe rogan
I know a dude who went there, and he went there for a hunting trip.
And while he was there, he got sick.
And the nearest hospital from where he was hunting was like six hours in a truck.
And so he got so sick, he had to go to the hospital.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
So they put him in the back of his truck.
He's lying down, trying to not throw up and just trying to relax over this six-hour drive to the hospital.
And they stop him for gas along the way, and a gunfight breaks out.
And the truck he's in gets hit with gunfire.
tom papa
Where?
What part?
joe rogan
Who the fuck knows?
tom papa
Who cares?
joe rogan
Some Africa-like place.
This dude is out there.
Dirt roads for six hours.
He gets in a fucking gunfight at a gas station.
At a gas station.
There were some rebels who disagreed with something and they shot at the guy who was driving the car.
tom papa
It's so primitive.
We went to a little town.
And you come into this town, it's just like steel siding put up and chickens running around.
I mean, it's not a town.
It's what you picture in your head of a crazy African bazaar.
And there's guys on motorcycles up and down the street.
unidentified
Wow.
tom papa
You don't know...
I don't know how this is gonna go.
unidentified
This is...
tom papa
You know what I mean?
This is...
joe rogan
Most of the time, in those parts of the world, everything goes fine.
tom papa
And that's...
Right.
joe rogan
But there's a high percentage of the time in those places, as opposed to in America, where things don't go well.
tom papa
It's like when they don't go well, they unravel really quickly and it can just not come back.
unidentified
And then people eat you.
tom papa
Stuff happens here, the cops show up, and they will get control of it eventually.
unidentified
Unless you're black.
Right.
joe rogan
And the cops just shoot you.
tom papa
Right.
Yet, again, getting control.
joe rogan
Cops are listening right now.
Fuck you, man.
tom papa
But you go into those towns...
I feel like, you know, I want to be the photojournalist who, like, comes in and just is cool with people and presumes these people are kind and they're gentle.
And a lot of them are kind and gentle.
joe rogan
Do you have a scarf?
tom papa
I could get one.
joe rogan
You need, like, some sort of a knit scarf.
Like a scarf?
Like, really thin, like, almost, like, transparent.
You know one of those, like, really well-worn scarves?
tom papa
And the, like, uh, the mirrored sunglasses, the wire mirrored sunglasses.
joe rogan
That's fucking, that's kind of a douche move.
tom papa
The scarf's not.
unidentified
Well...
joe rogan
The scarf makes you look worldly, like we were talking before the podcast started about those leather bags that you put your laptop in, that are made out of thick saddle leather that develops a fine patina over time.
Meanwhile, it weighs 20 fucking pounds.
Goddamn piece of shit, it weighs 20 pounds.
You know what's the best thing for carrying your laptop?
It's a backpack.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Everybody knows it.
tom papa
It's nice, soft.
joe rogan
It doesn't look cool.
tom papa
No, it doesn't look like Clint Eastwood would have it.
joe rogan
Yeah, if you have a shoulder strap and it's patina leather.
tom papa
Yeah, you can smell the leather on you.
joe rogan
Yes, yes, yes.
Sophisticated.
unidentified
Look at his shoes.
joe rogan
They're suede with a thin bottom.
It has a heel, but it's a very small heel.
It's a very thin, nondescript suede shoe he's wearing.
It's gray, of course.
tom papa
I bet he rolls his own cigarettes.
joe rogan
He does roll his own cigarettes.
You're amazing.
And he does it well.
A man who can roll his own cigarettes quickly and very...
Look at that.
It looks professional.
It looks like a machine did it.
tom papa
Oh, that guy?
Yeah, I saw him reciting poetry to that girl before.
joe rogan
That guy was embedded with a tribe of cannibals for a year and didn't even speak their language.
He's amazing.
tom papa
But I do feel that it's my American paranoia is part of it and that I want to be a better person and assume that these gentle people raising cattle are kind.
joe rogan
Or you should just assume that all that shit you read every 20 minutes when you get up in the morning in the New York Times about people eating people over there is true.
Jesus Christ.
Fucking white liberals.
They're all, we just want to think the world is amazing and diversity is awesome.
tom papa
I feel like...
I felt...
I did have a conflicting thing like that.
joe rogan
You got lucky and they had already eaten somebody right before you got there.
unidentified
People in Africa right now are like, fuck you.
joe rogan
We don't eat people!
I get it!
I get it!
I'm joking around, folks!
unidentified
But that is how I was acting.
tom papa
I wanted to be like, it's all cool, but I was not.
I was keeping my daughters by me.
I was like, let's go.
This little girl came up, will you give me some juice?
I'm like, screw you!
Get in the van!
Let's get out of here.
We got our fabric that we wanted.
Let's leave.
I really, I was that way.
I was like, I'm not having it.
I'm not cool.
I'm paranoid.
And I'm territorial.
And let's get back to the van.
joe rogan
I got a buddy of mine who's had malaria three times?
Three times?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And he goes to the Congo for months at a time and builds wells for the pygmies in the Congo.
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
He's the salt of the earth.
His name's Justin Wren.
He actually met him when he was fighting for the UFC. Wow.
And he took a long time off of fighting.
He recently returned to bring awareness to the pygmies.
tom papa
Oh really?
joe rogan
He just loves pygmies.
To help gather money to build them wells.
And they've built, I think, 42 wells so far.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
It's amazing.
tom papa
It's amazing.
joe rogan
Works with this company called Water4, and you can donate.
He's got a website called fightfortheforgotten.com.
That's him.
That's my friend.
But he goes down there for months and months at a time and lives with these people.
tom papa
He looks happy.
joe rogan
He's the happiest guy ever.
tom papa
He looks so happy.
joe rogan
He's so fucking nice, man.
tom papa
I would feel great, too, if I went to a land of pygmies, and I was just like, I am your god.
I am big, and I can dig.
joe rogan
Did you say guide or god?
tom papa
God.
joe rogan
Yeah, but this...
tom papa
They're little, right, pygmies?
joe rogan
They just call them the big pygmy.
Yeah.
tom papa
He looks like the gnome on my leg.
joe rogan
He's a big guy.
He's a UFC heavyweight.
So he's 250 plus pounds.
tom papa
Wow.
He's a big dude.
joe rogan
Big boulder of a man.
unidentified
He looks like one of my tattoos.
tom papa
He really does.
joe rogan
I think he might be over there now.
If he's not there now, he's going back soon.
He goes there all the time.
He's an amazing guy.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But that guy's had malaria three fucking times.
And he said there's types of malaria...
unidentified
Bad, right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, he said there's types of malaria that you can get that can last years.
What did he say?
Like 30 fucking years?
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
One of them was like five months, one of them was ten years, and there's a type that lasts for like 30 years.
tom papa
He just didn't want to take medication?
joe rogan
Well, he did.
tom papa
And he still got it?
joe rogan
He didn't take medication for some of them.
He did for other ones.
There's other people that he knows that took medication and still got malaria.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
But he's in the fucking heat of it, man.
tom papa
No, that's...
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's in the Congo.
tom papa
The Congo.
Deep.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Do you know that malaria has killed half the people that have ever died ever?
tom papa
Really?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Out of all the things that have killed people and all the history...
tom papa
Malaria's the biggest?
joe rogan
Wolves and fucking earthquakes...
tom papa
Dragons...
joe rogan
Drowning.
Malaria.
Half of them.
Half of them died because of malaria.
tom papa
That's not going to last, though.
Because we're able to go in and affect mosquitoes, and the mosquitoes are going to go and take all that out.
joe rogan
Have you seen that?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Genetically modified mosquitoes.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Where are you now, you GMO pussies?
unidentified
Yeah, bring it.
joe rogan
All those people are scared of GMO. What we have is everything is non-GMO. It's super important to me to be clean, to eat clean.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Smoking cigarettes, taking ass on the side, you fucking dirty hippie.
unidentified
Dirty!
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
GMOs.
GMOs have been with us forever.
Here's what's not a good idea.
It's not a good idea to put pesticides on your food.
You know it and I knew it.
And the problem with things like GMO, like Roundup, everybody knows that Roundup was created so they could spray it with evil chemicals because it makes it easier to grow plants.
Right.
It's not how it's supposed to be done.
These shortcuts that people have created for industrialized farming to kill off weeds and things like that, pesticides, that shit is fucking terrible for you.
And it gets in the water, and that stuff gets in the water.
I know a dude who has bone cancer.
And he has bone cancer, and a bunch of people in his neighborhood have cancer.
And they all got cancer because they were near a fucking golf course, and they had wells.
And so they were down...
Down water from the golf course, and the golf course constantly sprayed pesticide all over the grass.
They wanted to keep that grass clean.
It seeped into the groundwater.
These people all drank that groundwater, and they got cancer.
A fuckload of people in this guy's neighborhood got cancer.
Instead of a thigh, his femur is a rod.
It's like a metal rod.
And they rebuilt his leg, because they had to cut his femur out.
Easy to do that or remove your leg.
You want to try a rod?
Yeah, let's go with the rod.
Now he has a fucking rod in his leg.
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
GMO mosquitoes.
But here's the thing.
That's terrible, right?
But genetically modified foods, the more I've looked into it, the more I understand it now.
First of all, they've been with us forever.
Everything you fucking eat, from oranges to corn to tomatoes, all those things have been genetically modified.
Most of those things have been genetically modified by traditional methods, traditional agricultural methods that we don't think of as genetically modified.
We have this ignorant view of it.
We think it's all being done with...
They're going into the DNA and injecting dangerous chemicals, and we don't know the consequences.
They've been splicing plants together forever.
They've been doing certain aspects of...
Natural of selection and selecting the type of traits and foods that they want and taking seeds and figuring out.
That's the other thing that I didn't know.
Most of the foods that you buy, the seeds aren't going to even work on them.
If you buy tomatoes, those tomatoes, they're probably not even going to grow tomatoes from the seeds in those plants.
tom papa
The thing that freaks me, you hear GMO and you just think, okay, someone big is messing with our food and then there's a smaller number of big people who are manipulating the food supply.
joe rogan
And they don't care about you.
tom papa
And they don't even allow those old ways of modifying stuff because they're taking seeds out away from regular farmers.
I mean, it's really that part...
It's like the big brother part of the food industry that really is scary.
And when I hear GMO, I just think, okay, who's doing what?
On what level?
joe rogan
I think the same way when we were talking about how many employees do you have to have before you have to hire a chick.
You're okay if you have two.
I think when you're a part of a big corporation, how many people do you have to have where no one feels responsible for the consequences of the actions of the company?
Like, if you're working for Monsanto, you're working for a fucking enormous monster of a machine that needs to make more money every month than the previous month.
tom papa
It's bigger than a lot of countries.
joe rogan
It's bigger than a lot of countries, and the amount of money that it generates is substantial worldwide.
And then, here's the thing.
We're infinite growth, which is this thing that a lot of corporations operate under.
They have stockholders.
People want returns on their investments.
You want to make more money every quarter than you did the previous quarter.
That's crazy.
tom papa
Insane.
You can't sustain that.
joe rogan
It just keeps going and going and going.
And when you're a company like Monsanto, I'm not making any excuses for them.
I'm just saying the way giant corporations operate, the CEO has...
He has an obligation to his stockholders to generate more income.
It's important that he make their...
And if they don't, they'll write him out.
They'll get a new guy in here who's going to do the job.
So if you take on the job of a CEO of a major corporation, your job is to make more fucking money every time.
And it's a very high-pressure job, which is why it's worth so much money.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They're not stupid.
unidentified
No, you get it.
tom papa
No, you get it.
But that's why...
You need someone like the FDA to keep an eye on it and keep them small and break them up, make sure they're not putting that stuff in the wells and doing all that stuff.
joe rogan
But they're all bought and paid.
tom papa
Yeah, but if the corporation's goal is to just get bigger and make more, they're not going to put the brakes on and say, let's not put the bad water in the well.
joe rogan
That's true.
tom papa
Somebody has to do it.
joe rogan
Somebody's going to do it.
tom papa
Right?
It's not perfect.
The government is far from doing it right.
But the FDA with food, they let so much stuff slide.
There's so much stuff in our food that isn't allowed in Europe.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying.
Like, they're bought and sold.
Like, if they were looking out for us, the first thing they would do is look into cigarettes.
There would be, like, some major investigation as to why politicians haven't spoken out against cigarettes, why cigarettes are killing 500,000 people and no one's doing anything to stop it.
That would be one of the first things they would do.
tom papa
And it's allowed to exist at all.
joe rogan
Yeah, if you had a new product, like cigarettes, it was killing a half million people a year, and it wasn't doing anything good.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
How the fuck is that going to stick around?
tom papa
Right, you make a bubble gum that's killing half the people.
joe rogan
Well, here's what it does do.
It makes you need that gum.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then you want to get that gum back.
Anybody who created that gum would be thought of as a monster.
tom papa
Total monster.
joe rogan
But you could be like, what does your dad do?
Oh, well, he runs a tobacco company.
Oh, cool.
tom papa
Oh, cool.
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
So does the rest of this state.
Everybody in North Carolina.
joe rogan
He employs a lot of people in this state.
Oh, excellent.
What does your dad do?
Oh, he makes this addictive gum that kills you.
What a piece of shit.
That's a piece of shit.
Oh yeah, he wears a cape and he lives in a dark castle and it's never sunny.
It's weird.
He just mysteriously goes around the basement and thinks about killing people.
He's so happy with his product, killing half a million a year.
And he has all the money in the world.
He buys off politicians.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
With his evil gum money.
I mean, that's what they're doing.
tom papa
Yeah, exactly.
Exactly.
joe rogan
So much difference.
tom papa
That's, you know what I think?
I was trying to think of why, like, your buddy goes and helps the pygmies, and all these people are like, you've got to just go into these places and help these people.
And part of me was, when I was there, was thinking, it's almost, like, in this liberal, arrogant way, offensive to be like, I'm here now.
I can help you.
You live like this?
Let me make it better.
But as I was thinking about it, I think the desire to go to work with the pygmies and to go to help these people with their water and all, it's not that we think we're better.
You just see people that need help.
But unlike here in this country, you see people that need help, it's a mess to be able to help them.
You don't know if you're really...
There, it's like, I build a well, and these people are happy, right?
I give them education, and it's a clear path.
There is no...
I know I'm going against what I was saying before, but there is no government regulations.
There's no complex corporations.
If I want to help somebody here, it's like, how do you help people in Detroit?
Where do you start?
How does it make an impact there?
He goes and sees pygmies.
He helps the pygmies.
And at the end of the day, he's helped pygmies.
joe rogan
Right?
tom papa
You know what I mean?
There's a direct way to help people there.
joe rogan
There is that thing, though, whenever you do something charitable, that people think that you're, like, peacocking your charitable ways.
tom papa
You're doing it for yourself and your own ego.
joe rogan
Yeah.
But then there's the other side of looking at, like, who cares as long as the good work gets done?
Like, even if you have kind of shitty, selfish, ambitious, sort of weird intentions behind it.
tom papa
Yeah.
If I do something good for people, I want other people to know I did it.
I'll admit it.
I know it's a shitty motivation, but I did help somebody.
You know what I mean?
They got something out of it, for sure.
I got something out of it, for sure.
Praise me.
joe rogan
Praise Tom Papa.
tom papa
I'm a pretty good guy.
Look what I did.
joe rogan
Look what I did.
tom papa
You know what I mean?
I really...
I'll admit it.
If I went back to Africa and helped these people out with their drinking water...
joe rogan
You'd want to do a documentary on it, make some cash.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
I'd do a special in Kilimanjaro on my way home, and I would market it.
joe rogan
What kind of comedy would you do in Kilimanjaro?
tom papa
Oh, man.
joe rogan
What about these rebels, folks?
Who's dressing them?
tom papa
No, it's safe in Tanzania.
There's no conflicts.
There's no rebels.
It's nice and peaceful.
These people are kind.
They're nice.
They're good.
joe rogan
Kilimanjaro's like that?
Mm-hmm.
What would you do?
What kind of jokes would you do when you're in Kilimanjaro?
tom papa
They don't understand English very well, so you have to get a little physical.
unidentified
Do some act-outs.
tom papa
Do the old grandpa.
joe rogan
Yeah, grandpa running from the lion gag.
tom papa
A couple of boob jokes.
unidentified
That sounds good.
joe rogan
I saw The Lion King.
Not The Lion King.
Jungle Book last night.
tom papa
Yeah, I saw it on the plane.
joe rogan
Spoiler alert, all the animals can talk and the kid lives.
tom papa
I wanted to like it.
It just took itself, as soon as I heard Liam Neeson in the beginning taking themselves too seriously, I was out.
joe rogan
Well, and also they had a gigantopithecus in it, which I thought was fascinating, but they made it an orangutan.
They decided that a gigantopithecus was an orangutan.
unidentified
That bothered me too.
joe rogan
It was an enormous orangutan that knocked over a building.
It was this 10 foot tall orangutan that can talk.
Spoiler alert!
Sorry!
tom papa
Is it bad that I still want to say orangutan because it sounds more fun?
unidentified
Yes.
joe rogan
You're saying it wrong.
It's Neanderthal also, by the way.
It's not Thal.
It's Neanderthal.
tom papa
Some of the oldest human remains were Tanzania.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
How old were they?
tom papa
I don't know.
joe rogan
Well, they think that's where people evolved, if you believe all that evolution nonsense and not the Bible.
tom papa
I do.
I do believe it.
unidentified
Hmm.
joe rogan
I pity you.
I pity your soul, because you're going to burn in a fiery pit.
Whoops!
tom papa
I pity your Twitter.
joe rogan
I guess you fucked up.
Yeah, they think that's where people evolved, right?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Or one of the main places.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I think the original place for human beings.
tom papa
Ethiopia?
joe rogan
And then, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And then, obviously, they branched out and different species of human, different branches of human evolved.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
They keep finding, over the last few years, a bunch of new ones.
tom papa
I know.
These new branches.
joe rogan
Yeah, they find like some teeth and they go, what the fuck is this?
And then they go, I think we got a new jawbone here, guys.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And then they do some DNA on it and like, holy fuckstick.
tom papa
Did humans have tails?
Maybe.
Olduvai Gorge in Tanzania.
joe rogan
Yeah.
The site in Tanzania that holds the earliest evidence of the existence of human ancestors.
tom papa
You gotta go, Joe.
You gotta go.
You would love it.
joe rogan
Holy shit, look at that.
They found hundreds of fossilized bones and stone tools in the area dating back millions of years, leading them to conclude that humans evolved in Africa.
Wow, millions of years.
tom papa
Millions.
joe rogan
I didn't know they had stone tools millions of years ago.
unidentified
Millions.
joe rogan
I wonder if they're saying fossilized bones...
And stone tools also millions?
Like, how old was the oldest, if you had a guess, right now, without any looking, how old do you think the oldest stone tool ever found was?
tom papa
The oldest stone tool was discovered by Benjamin Franklin in Philadelphia.
joe rogan
You're talking about his wife?
unidentified
His beard, his old tool.
That's what he called his dick, my stone tool.
tom papa
I'm very bad with thinking about numbers like back into the past and things out into the universe.
Like these billions don't make any sense to me.
But I would guess, in my dumb way, I would say a tool would be about two million years old.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm going to go with you.
I'll say about 2 million years.
tom papa
Oh, I'm impressed.
joe rogan
Let's see.
2.8 million.
unidentified
Whoa!
tom papa
Wow!
joe rogan
Holy shit.
tom papa
That's a long time.
joe rogan
That's so long.
The artifacts are by far the oldest handmade stone tools yet discovered.
The previous record holders known as the Older Wand stone tools were about 2.6 million years old.
So, I was hunting recently in Nevada.
tom papa
You've got to go to Africa.
You're built for this.
joe rogan
I was in Nevada, though.
I was in the mountains, in the high country, the high country desert, hunting mule deer, doing this archery hunt, hiking, backpacking, camping out there.
And I found a stone arrowhead.
tom papa
You did?
joe rogan
Yeah.
While hunting, I found an ancient arrowhead.
tom papa
That's the coolest!
joe rogan
It was the coolest shit ever.
tom papa
That's the coolest!
joe rogan
Who knows how old it was.
tom papa
Did you keep it?
joe rogan
Well, you're not supposed to.
tom papa
You're not?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Of course I did.
tom papa
You're not supposed to walk out with it?
joe rogan
I'm gonna fucking leave it there.
Get the fuck out of here.
Fuck off.
tom papa
How big was it?
joe rogan
Tiny.
Small.
About that big.
It's amazing.
tom papa
I've always wanted to find that.
joe rogan
I left it there.
I buried it, Tom.
I buried it so that someone else could find it.
tom papa
You're a good man.
joe rogan
I am a good man.
I want everybody to know I buried it too.
Say you would.
tom papa
You would want everyone to know.
joe rogan
If I got a deer there, I was going to take a photo of the new arrowhead next to the old arrowhead.
Not take a photo of them, but glue them onto a piece with a photo of the animal and then have it framed.
I just think it's a dope thing to find.
While you're out bow and arrow hunting, you find an arrowhead from...
tom papa
Probably Indians.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm sure.
Native Americans or indigenous people, I prefer.
tom papa
I mean, engines.
unidentified
I mean, Redskins.
joe rogan
You know, that kind.
Powwow.
Eagles.
Eagle feathers.
You know, them dudes.
tom papa
You know, whenever I say Indians, my daughter always goes, Dad.
joe rogan
Yeah, don't say that.
tom papa
Native American.
And I'm like, ah, okay.
But then I was reading an article in the New York Times about, you know, they're trying to put the pipeline through North Dakota, and they call them the Lakota Indians.
They don't say the Lakota Native Americans, so I'm not being offensive.
joe rogan
The Lakota people, I think, is what they're supposed to be calling themselves.
tom papa
I think they called them Indians in the article.
joe rogan
Do you know that other Indians called them the Sioux?
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Because Sioux means enemy.
tom papa
Oh.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
The Lakota people were a notorious warlike people.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Tough.
joe rogan
Do you ever hear of the Nez Perce?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
Big time cannibals.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Along the Great Lakes areas.
Yeah, they did a lot of killing and eating white folks.
They didn't like the white invaders, so they took to killing them and eating them.
tom papa
And take their soul.
joe rogan
Oh, here's something I found out that's very important.
The Revenant's all based on bullshit.
tom papa
No, it's not!
joe rogan
Fucking bullshit.
tom papa
I just read the book!
joe rogan
Here's what actually happened to that guy.
No, no, no, no, no.
tom papa
I just read the book.
joe rogan
The historical account of the actual event.
tom papa
Oh, okay.
joe rogan
Here's a bunch of shit that never happened.
tom papa
That's true.
joe rogan
First of all, he never had a son.
Spoiler alert!
His son's murdered by the guy, and he wants to go after the guy.
Never had a son.
tom papa
That's not in the book, by the way.
joe rogan
Second of all, they never tried to bury him alive.
He was fucked up.
He got mauled by a bear, and they left him to die.
They thought he was going to die.
tom papa
They didn't bury him.
joe rogan
They didn't bury him.
The guy crawled back.
tom papa
That's not in the book either.
joe rogan
He never killed anybody.
He didn't kill anybody, that guy.
Never.
Didn't kill anybody.
Made it back to camp.
Crawled back to camp, got pissed, and they were like, oh, sorry.
tom papa
Yeah, it just ended.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
He never killed him.
I know.
That's not in the book either.
joe rogan
The guy who left him to die wound up dying too.
They all die real young back then.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But the only thing that was true is he survived.
He found an animal.
I think it was a moose or an elk that had been killed by wolves and he ate some of that.
And he killed and ate a snake.
And that's all he had to eat his entire way back.
And his body's all fucked up.
And he did crawl his way back to wherever the fuck he was.
Yeah.
tom papa
He actually...
Yeah, and then he got a horse.
He got a horse from Indian and rode it to a fort.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
And then it just kind of ends.
joe rogan
And now he fell off the cliff and landed in the tree.
Bullshit.
Never happened.
Made up.
tom papa
The book is pretty accurate to the real account.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah?
tom papa
And my buddy told me to read it, so...
Putting together a little summer reading list, I threw that into the pile.
joe rogan
I hate that phrase, pretty accurate.
You're talking about historical events.
You have an obligation to have zero bullshit that you add in there to make the story better.
tom papa
But I think the book is.
I couldn't tell you 100%.
But all that stuff, like...
As I was reading it, it's a really good book because it really gets into the smallness of what you have in your utility bag and walking through and what this Indian would do.
There's all this very little subtle day-to-day stuff that makes the book great.
Um...
But it just, yeah, it just kind of like drifted off and ended.
There was a lot less drama.
The book was pretty dry.
joe rogan
Yeah, well that's the real life story.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
No, so this, the account of all the stuff that they carried with them, you mean like flints to start fires and things like that?
tom papa
Yeah, exactly.
The flint.
joe rogan
What did they carry with them?
tom papa
A little rope, a little fat.
joe rogan
Fat?
Why fat?
tom papa
Yeah, a little fat.
I don't know how to oil up their tools.
joe rogan
Huh.
Oh, to make sure that their tools didn't get rusty, probably.
tom papa
A lot of stuff for their gun, for their gun maintenance.
Yeah.
What'd they call it?
A supplies bag?
It was a cooler name than that.
joe rogan
And so they had muskets back then, right?
So they would have like black powder and they would pour it into the barrel.
Then they would have to pack it down and put a primer in.
And they had a little piece of flint that would drop down on a hammer and the spark from that would cause the explosion.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
So fucking primitive.
It's amazing.
tom papa
Amazing.
Amazing.
joe rogan
It really is.
It's amazing how people not just got by back then, but actually would go out into the woods, like barely supplied.
tom papa
Nothing.
joe rogan
Almost nothing.
tom papa
Just against the weather?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Not prepared?
You have one pair of clothes?
joe rogan
I wonder how much food they would bring, and how much they would just rely upon the land.
Because they didn't really know what the hell was ahead a lot of the time.
tom papa
They would salt a lot of meat, right?
They would salt it and jerk it and, you know, carry that stuff.
But, you know, that was like...
You ate that when you were in a fix, you know, and you had no food for a while.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
But they didn't...
They couldn't carry a lot of stuff.
They couldn't refrigerate stuff, you know.
You're just living out there.
It's wild.
Think about how scary it would be just, like, sleeping there and knowing that, you know, Native Americans are coming through the woods...
joe rogan
Well, I got really...
tom papa
Pissed off that you're on their land.
joe rogan
Oh, insane.
tom papa
You know?
joe rogan
And you really are on their fucking land.
Like, you're really not supposed to be there.
You really are part of an invading army.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I put this article up yesterday that somebody tweeted, that I retweeted.
It was just a shocking article.
I started reading it about...
All of the Southern California murders that involved Indians, and then California in general.
Like, how many Native Americans were murdered in establishing California in the 1800s?
tom papa
Oh, like when they were pioneering, like when they were first coming.
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
Oh, dude.
But these accounts were horrific.
Like, firsthand accounts of thousands of people getting slaughtered, including children, babies, women.
This all happened a couple hundred years ago.
tom papa
After reading The Revenant, I decided I was so excited about reading about the West.
I'm like, let me learn about how the Indians actually lived.
Let me see their small bags.
What did they carry?
What was their day-to-day?
I really wanted to kind of get into that.
So, like an idiot, I pick up Bury Me at Wounded Knee.
Which is the most horrific account of the slaughter of Native Americans.
It's just, you know, tribe after tribe.
It just takes you through our expansion and going into each state and lying and destroying and killing men, women and children.
It's unreadable.
You literally can't get through it.
joe rogan
It's so recent.
tom papa
I'm like, I want to read a nice Indian story where a white guy comes out and they know he's cool and he gets a girlfriend and he's like the one cool white guy and hangs with the Indians.
joe rogan
I love Indians.
Dancing with Wolves is my favorite movie.
When the beautiful white man becomes the best Indian, I love it.
tom papa
That's what I want to read.
joe rogan
Fucking horrible movie.
The best of the group who gets the hottest woman is a beautiful white man.
tom papa
With a ponytail.
joe rogan
He starts off slow.
He gets his ass kicked early.
tom papa
Some of the young guys don't trust him.
joe rogan
Yeah, there's a lot of rivalries.
Here's the story arc.
It's going to take a long time.
We need three plus hours.
Three hours?
What kind of fucking movie is this?
tom papa
Well, he has to win the Indian's Respect.
It's going to take time.
joe rogan
It's an amazing movie, and Kevin Costner's on board.
So, Kevin believes in this.
tom papa
Sold.
joe rogan
First of all, Kevin has been researching this for a long time.
It would be within your best interest to make this film, because if you don't, someone will.
I'll just tell you that now.
We're here out of respect because of our previous relationship that we have with Universal.
tom papa
This is getting made.
This is getting made.
joe rogan
This is an amazing film.
Kevin becomes the best Indian at the end of the movie.
He kicks everyone's ass and fucks everyone's Pocahontas.
Fucks their wives.
tom papa
And think about all the Indians you're going to employ in this movie.
You won't have to hire black people for the rest of the year.
joe rogan
And there was a young man at one point in time in the film who seemed like he and Kevin would be rivals.
Eventually he worships Kevin.
And he thinks Kevin is amazing.
Kevin begins to dress like them.
Somehow or another, though, he goes to a barber.
And gets his hair cut perfectly around his ears.
It's weird.
tom papa
The same way he was in Waterworld.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, it's sort of mulledy, but whatever's going on at the top, he's obviously got some product in that hair, right?
I mean, what's happening there?
tom papa
Big time.
Yeah, he's in a hair metal band.
joe rogan
Yeah.
My favorite is Wyatt Earp.
Did you ever see when he played Wyatt Earp?
So he played Wyatt Earp, and when Wyatt Earp was young, they just put a wig on a 40-year-old Kevin Costner.
They're like, yeah, just make him look like he's 18. Give him a fucking wig.
So he's like, gee, mister, I don't know.
Why'd you beat me up?
This guy beats him up, and he's got this fucking...
He's a 40-year-old guy with a wig on, and no one's freaking out.
Everyone's like, oh, your kid's weird looking.
And then fucking 25 years later, the kid looks exactly the same.
This is so strange.
tom papa
His voice is a little deeper.
joe rogan
But he's got the loose skin thing going on, but he's got a mop of hair.
Just this crazy fat mop.
tom papa
Nobody cared.
joe rogan
They didn't have CGI back then.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You couldn't make him look like an 18 year old.
tom papa
It wasn't 4k.
joe rogan
No.
tom papa
No one was really looking that close.
joe rogan
It looked so bad.
It looked like not even the healthiest 40 year old guy.
Like a 40-year-old guy that probably does a little coke every now and then and boozes it up.
That's him.
tom papa
Gee, mister.
I don't want no trouble.
joe rogan
That's him in Wyatt Earp, but that's not him when he was the youngest.
That's him in the movie somewhere.
But he had also a lazy bitch.
Didn't even bother losing any weight for that movie.
He had a little bit of a double chin.
tom papa
You're a movie star.
joe rogan
Well, you know, he's like, fuck it.
I'm directing.
I'm acting.
I get tired.
I want a snack.
tom papa
I'm dealing with a lot, alright?
joe rogan
By the way, I love Kevin Costa.
And Dancing with Wolves is a fucking awesome movie.
I loved it.
But that is what happened.
tom papa
But when you're going in thinking like you're going to get that level of Indian fun, and then you read Bury Me at Wounded Knee, the first chapter alone is like a holocaust.
It's like...
It's really rough.
joe rogan
It is incredibly fucked up when you stop and think about the time period of the 1800s and then previous to that, how recent that was.
tom papa
It's so recent.
joe rogan
It's incredibly fucked up.
tom papa
It's incredibly fucked up and it's incredible how much has happened up till now.
Like, I mean, walking through this area in like...
In the dark with no lights and it was like being in Africa, right?
And now...
joe rogan
They didn't have flashlights.
tom papa
Overnight.
joe rogan
These guys camped at night and they didn't have flashlights.
tom papa
Nothing.
They couldn't even light a fire because they thought it was going to attract the enemy.
Crazy.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
This is not long ago.
joe rogan
Dude.
Yeah.
tom papa
Not long ago at all.
joe rogan
What people do when they find new spots, it's what they've done throughout history.
They find out who's owning those spots, what's all the good stuff in those spots.
All right, we've got to kill those people to get their good stuff.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And then they just jack them.
tom papa
I don't understand why more parts of Africa weren't exploited.
joe rogan
It's tough to get to.
First of all, it's enormous.
If you think about the sheer size of Africa.
And then there was also a lot of stuff they tried to exploit.
It's one of the famous things about the Congo is that European settlers tried to, they tried to take the Congo and they tried to colonize it.
They tried to move in and they tried to gentrify the Congo.
They tried to like build houses and there's still the remains of a lot of these incredible mansions.
They tried to put like plantations up in the Congo.
tom papa
You go through all of it, it was...
Oh, that's when the Germans were here.
That's when the French owned it.
That's when the British owned it.
I mean, that's the way it was.
People just came from Europe and took it over and owned it.
The difference is they didn't come in, in most cases, and slaughter everybody and try and take it over.
For some reason, they came in and just tried to adapt those people.
But people weren't moving down.
It's a hostile environment.
And there's, you know, I mean, there's diamonds and there's that stuff.
But there's no...
There's no real, like, mineable thing that you could exploit and bring to the rest of the world in these areas that I was in.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
There is in some areas, and those areas have deep trouble.
Yeah.
Like, that's where you get, like, conflict minerals.
tom papa
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
You know, a lot of that is they're getting some of these minerals that they need for cell phones and for some different things.
unidentified
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
They get a lot of those from Africa.
tom papa
You know who's coming in big in Africa is China.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
tom papa
China's going in and building stadiums, building football stadiums, soccer stadiums.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
Going in and building them for free.
And then they get in with the government and they get all these contracts.
They see Africa as the place that's going to be exploited in the future.
And China's going in big.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah, I've heard that.
I heard they're buying up enormous swaths of land.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's kind of weird, man.
The thing that China has going on is that they're kind of capitalist now.
tom papa
Yeah.
Oh, fiercely.
joe rogan
Yeah, but they're also not, in that they can completely control their people, they can shut down aspects of the internet.
Like, I had a friend who was an executive at Google, and they were going over there and trying to talk with the Chinese and trying to negotiate to bring Google, but they had, like, some really...
Bizarre demands as far as their ability to enact censorship.
And then on top of it, they have no laws when it comes to enforcing copyright protection and fraudulent items.
They have full Apple stores in China that are all fakes.
It's 100% counterfeit.
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
Yep.
It has a giant Apple logo.
You go in there, you buy Apple laptops.
They all have the right names.
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
They all have the right specifications.
All of it's fake.
tom papa
And Apple can't do anything about it?
joe rogan
Can't do a damn thing.
Can't do a damn thing.
There's nothing they can do.
tom papa
Holy cow.
joe rogan
And the government's not going to do shit either.
That's just what they do.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
Look at this.
This is a fake Apple store that's in China.
And it looks exactly like an Apple Store.
tom papa
Yeah, that's crazy.
joe rogan
It has the same images on the wall.
They copy the images.
tom papa
They copy the logo.
Now that you know it, it is off just a little bit.
joe rogan
Not really.
I wouldn't think so.
I wouldn't think so at all.
Look, dude, it has all the same ads.
They steal everything.
They steal all the ads.
They steal the font.
They steal the same sort of tables, the thick, earthy wooden tables that make you feel good when you sit down on them.
tom papa
Those are our children in those heads.
joe rogan
But they spelled store wrong.
unidentified
S-T-O-E-R. S-T-O-E-R. It's hard to get away with it.
joe rogan
That's the one thing we do.
No, no, no, no.
You're an apostol.
We're an apostol.
tom papa
This can't be common, though.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
It's common.
tom papa
It is?
joe rogan
Yeah, it is common.
Yeah, they just do this constantly.
There's a problem with this in the archery world.
There's a company called Rage, and they make probably the most popular broadhead for hunting.
It's called a Rage hypodermic.
It's a very complicated design because it's what's called a mechanical broadhead.
And what this means is with archery, a lot of the accuracy in archery involves drag, like how little drag you have, meaning how much air impacts the arrow, the wind drift, things along those lines.
And when you have an arrow that's cutting through the air, it has to be aerodynamic and it has to operate in a specific way.
So the most accurate ones are these arrowheads that are called mechanical broadheads.
The problem with these things is...
They open up on impact.
So they hit, and then they open up, and they create this huge wound channel.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
So it goes open to, like, two inches.
But everything has to be, like, high-quality steel, razor-sharp blades.
It has to fit perfectly.
The tolerances are incredibly small, because everything has to be...
You're talking about, like, to be an ethical hunter, you have to not just be good at it, you have to make an accurate shot, you have to practice, and you have to have the best equipment, right?
So this is, like, one of the best pieces of equipment you could buy.
If it's real, but the problem is they're making fake ones in China.
tom papa
Oh no.
joe rogan
And the blades are dull, and the metal's cheap, and they break off.
tom papa
Are they selling them here?
joe rogan
They don't know.
People don't know.
They don't even know if they're buying them.
I mean, you could buy them from a disreputable company that's getting them from China, and they look exactly the same.
It has the same logo, the same fonts, and when you buy these things, you're shooting them at an animal.
It's entirely likely you're shooting a cheap piece of steel against...
tom papa
China!
joe rogan
And for this company that's put all this money, this company Rage, that's put incredible amounts of money and resources in designing this incredible piece of archery hunting equipment, they're fucking pissed.
tom papa
Of course.
China's ruthless.
joe rogan
Ruthless like that.
tom papa
With all that stuff.
joe rogan
We're saying it like it's a guy.
China's a guy.
She's dead, right?
That wrestler?
tom papa
Did she die?
She did die.
joe rogan
She was nice.
tom papa
She was.
The whole poaching problem in Africa?
joe rogan
Yeah.
China.
tom papa
Yeah.
They don't give a fuck about rhinos.
They want rhino horn.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
And they'll pay millions of dollars for it.
joe rogan
You ever seen what it does to your dick?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
It doesn't do anything.
Just checking to see if you pay attention.
tom papa
It's so funny.
Are you really happy for a second?
Because they were saying...
Because they were talking about how they...
unidentified
It works!
tom papa
In this whole Serengeti area, they have a place just for rhinos.
It's the only animal that they've walled off because they were trying to protect it from these poachers.
joe rogan
Incredible.
tom papa
And I was like, the only explanation is it would do something to your dick.
joe rogan
Well, do you see that they've 3D printed fake rhino horns?
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
They've used cellulose and all the different things.
I guess it's cellulose, right?
Like, what do they use to make them?
But they are 3D printing fake rhino horns.
tom papa
Brilliant.
joe rogan
That literally, they seem to be rhino horns to collectors, and they're going to flood the market with them.
tom papa
That's great.
joe rogan
It is great, but it's still...
tom papa
They should also put chips in them and bust the people buying it.
But China won't let you.
joe rogan
China won't give a fuck.
They're like, who cares?
So you got another dude who kills rhinos.
We'll just go to tigers.
Get some tiger dick next.
tom papa
I went by in Tanzania next to the Serengeti.
The Serengeti is this huge national preserve.
And the place where I stayed, this guy, Paul Tudor Jones, who's a...
joe rogan
Sounds like a folk singer in the 70s.
tom papa
He's in New York.
He's a New York hedge fund guy who's a philanthropist now.
And he bought all the land next to the Serengeti, where people were poaching and people destroyed the whole population.
There were, like, no animals.
And he went in, bought the land, bought up all the hunting licenses from Tanzania for 99 years.
And in 10 years' time, it just exploded with animals.
The whole population is back.
joe rogan
Wow.
tom papa
Poaching is a major, major, major problem.
unidentified
You know what?
joe rogan
Here's the problem with poaching.
The word poaching.
A lot of it is...
Really fucking poor people that are just trying to survive.
So to say that poaching is an issue in Africa, poverty is an issue in Africa.
Poaching is a symptom of the poverty in Africa.
tom papa
Of getting lunch.
joe rogan
And not even necessarily talking about the big money stuff like the ivory trade and the rhino horn trade.
That could be applied to that as well.
But a big part of poaching is just meat.
tom papa
It's just eating.
joe rogan
Just stealing meat, yeah.
They call them poachers, but what they really are is that they're hunters, they aren't property owners.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And these guys, they run around, they do snares, they catch these animals in snares, they have these really shitty, almost like musket-like guns that they've devised, like really similar.
They take a rifle, but they don't have bullets.
tom papa
Put rocks in it?
joe rogan
They put things in it, and then they pack in gunpowder, and they light it, and they make it blow like a fucking rifle, or like a musket.
Yeah, they use some really shitty...
I mean, some of them do.
tom papa
Yeah.
I know, you can't put your Western...
I know, there's a tendency to put everything through our Western prism and be like, you know, this is just a horrible thing.
But when you go through these villages where they literally are walking a mile for water, and you get meat, that's like a big thing.
I mean, look, these people...
It was my wife's birthday when we were there.
They don't have the phrase, happy birthday.
They don't celebrate birthdays like...
They said it's because you'll have to have gifts, we'll have to take time away from working, we'll have to do...
They just never came up with the concept, happy birthday, because their life is hard.
They don't have a lot of...
They don't have a word for dessert.
They don't celebrate.
They're hard-working, surviving people.
So just to the point that...
You're right, there are a lot of people that just need meat for their family, and they're not thinking that a tourist from LA is coming in and wants to take pictures of the zebra, you know what I mean?
But there's got to be a way to parse it out, because China still is a huge problem, and they're taking all these animals, you know, endangered animals, not for meat, you know what I mean?
They're coming in and taking rhinos, or they're taking cheetahs, where not many survive even just in nature.
joe rogan
Why are they taking cheetahs?
tom papa
Just for their coats.
They like to make hats out of them.
joe rogan
Really?
Cheetahs?
unidentified
I don't know.
tom papa
Probably.
joe rogan
Jock straps.
It's all jock straps.
tom papa
Just all cheetah jock straps in China.
You don't know that?
You've seen the cheetah jockstraps, right?
jamie vernon
Most of the articles I'm finding on...
joe rogan
3D printed rhino horns?
jamie vernon
Yeah, they have them and there was a couple companies that were going to start making them, but there are people that are saying it's not a good idea to have them introduced because it's going to cause more problems than they're already having with just the real ones.
tom papa
They look real, but the thing is...
joe rogan
Is that a real?
Are those real or fake?
jamie vernon
The picture I'm showing is real ones, but uh...
God, look how many of them there are.
Showing the problems that are going to come.
joe rogan
It's so fucked up that what's killing these crazy animals that we're going to miss so much...
tom papa
I know.
It's a dinosaur!
joe rogan
It's a dinosaur.
It's like a stegosaurus or something.
It might as well be.
But what's killing them is this erroneous idea that the horns make your dick hard.
I mean, if that's not symptomatic or symbolic of how fucking bizarre humans are...
tom papa
Yes.
joe rogan
And meanwhile, at the same time, there's plenty of fucking pills that actually do the job.
It's not like you're asking these rhino horns to do something that no pill could do.
tom papa
We've solved this problem.
unidentified
It's done.
joe rogan
It's done.
See Anna Nicole Smith.
Remember J. Howard Marshall, that old guy who married her?
tom papa
That's creepy dude.
joe rogan
He's like in his 80s and he married that big-titted sloppy slut.
Why did he do that?
Because they had Viagra finally and he could fuck her.
tom papa
That's right.
unidentified
Yeah!
tom papa
On a bed of money.
joe rogan
He just fucking kept his cowboy boots on and yeah!
tom papa
That is a great point.
It's like, why the rhino thing?
joe rogan
Exactly.
tom papa
But it's probably not just for their hard-on.
It's probably also because they think they can cure cancer with it.
joe rogan
No, no.
It's really more...
There's J. Howard Marshall and Anne Nicole.
It's really, I think, more of anything, a status symbol.
You come over to a man's house, you have some rhino tea, you both wear, you know, expense...
tom papa
Cheetah.
joe rogan
Expensive Petit Philippe watches.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
You know, you drive a Ferrari.
He has a Rolls Royce.
You talk about, you know, real estate you're buying, and you do something.
You pull out a Cuban cigar.
Tom, where'd you get the Cubans?
Hey, I got a buddy.
He lives in Miami.
Let's sit on the back porch and pretend we're gentlemen.
I mean, there's so many people that never fucking smoke cigars, and they get so pumped about getting a Cuban.
I got a Cuban.
Oh, you got a Cuban, huh?
What kind?
What do you got there?
Hoyo de Monterey, Double Corona.
Oh, it's a good one.
It's a fat one.
I like that after a steak.
tom papa
It's just a fake with a label on it.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of those.
tom papa
A lot of those.
I could tell the difference.
joe rogan
I used to buy real ones, but I used to buy real ones that would pretend they're fake from London.
I used to order them from London.
They would send them to me from a tobaccoist.
tom papa
Nice.
joe rogan
Is that what they call them in London?
Tobaccoist.
And then they would send me the actual labels.
Like, weeks later.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
So they'd send these things to me in boxes, and they would just be labeled Dominican cigars, and then I'd get them.
tom papa
Brilliant.
joe rogan
But I had specific cigars that I would ask for.
It's just such a stupid...
As soon as I started smoking weed, I'd dump that habit.
tom papa
Don't you like...
joe rogan
That's nonsense.
tom papa
You don't find it enjoyable?
joe rogan
I do.
But it's just...
There's something about it that's very fetishy.
There's something about it that's very affected.
It's like you're putting on airs.
tom papa
Definitely.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
When I smoke...
joe rogan
I see a guy with a fat face and he's got a cigar.
I'm like, oh, what does this dipshit have to say?
tom papa
Yeah, everyone on the cover of Cigar Aficionado looks like an asshole.
joe rogan
Oh yeah, if you're just standing there smiling.
tom papa
Yeah, come on.
But, when you're just being that asshole...
joe rogan
Did Shug Knight ever make it onto the cover of Cigar Aficionado?
Please find out.
tom papa
That's a good question.
joe rogan
He always had a cigar.
He was a good spokesman for the brand.
tom papa
That is part of the appeal.
You do sit back and just say, you know what...
Yeah, I'm alright.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
You sit back, everything's good.
I'm here good.
I got a cigar.
tom papa
When I got my family back from that vacation and nobody had malaria or cuts or any emergencies and I got them all the way back from Africa, I sat out back with one and I was like, yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Fucking A right I did that.
joe rogan
I'm American.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Back here in California.
tom papa
I'm a man.
joe rogan
Back here, I might vote Republican.
I don't give a fuck.
tom papa
I am a lion.
joe rogan
How about we give Donald Trump a chance to make America great again?
tom papa
No, you're going too far.
You're taking him too far.
joe rogan
Who's that?
Sean Combs.
Look at him.
Looking like an asshole.
tom papa
Everyone looks like an asshole.
joe rogan
Little tiny hands.
tom papa
Jack Nicholson's the only one that doesn't look like an asshole.
joe rogan
How little his hands are.
Yeah, Jack Nicholson.
tom papa
Jack's made for it.
joe rogan
But Jack Nicholson also looks like he didn't pose.
Is there something wrong with his hands or is it me?
Puff Daddy's hands look very small.
They're in front of him.
tom papa
They look weird.
They don't look like they're part of him.
joe rogan
They're way out in front of him.
tom papa
The perspective looks weird.
joe rogan
But they're small.
So if you put it up to his chest, he'd be like, you got little boy hands.
tom papa
You got little baby hands with your cigar.
joe rogan
Look at Usher.
He played Sugar Ray Leonard in that new Roberto Duran movie.
Usher can box, apparently.
tom papa
Oh yeah?
joe rogan
Yeah!
tom papa
Hands of Stone.
joe rogan
Yeah, he played Sugar Ray.
Everyone looks like an asshole.
Let's pull up the most asshole-ish covers of popular cigar or cigar aficionado.
tom papa
Jack Nicholson looks great.
joe rogan
Vince Vaughn looks pretty douchey right there.
Click that.
Oh yeah, Vince, what the fuck?
What are you, plotting things?
unidentified
Hey, as brothers in this thing that we have together.
joe rogan
You can't not look douchey!
tom papa
No, you all look like an idiot.
Oh, Charlie Sheen.
joe rogan
Oh, Charlie Sheen.
I have AIDS in this cigar.
I'm smoking AIDS. I don't give a fuck.
unidentified
Everybody was into Charlie Sheen until he got HIV. They smell so bad.
tom papa
You can't have one without thinking...
joe rogan
What is this, Jamie?
tom papa
Screw everybody.
You know what I mean?
Oh, yeah.
Like, when you smoke a cigar, you're saying, fuck you guys.
I'm smoking this.
I know it's awful, but I'm enjoying it.
True.
So, when you see a guy with it, that's what you're seeing in his eyes.
joe rogan
William Schachner.
Yes.
tom papa
He looks pretty good.
joe rogan
You know, he purposely adds weight.
He puts weight on and keeps weight on because it fills his face in, and he keeps him from looking wrinkly.
tom papa
Al Roker should take that advice.
joe rogan
Well, Al Roker did the opposite.
tom papa
I know, now he looks too skinny.
joe rogan
You know Joe Montaña?
tom papa
Joe looks pretty good.
joe rogan
Do you know that guy's a gun nut?
tom papa
Is he?
joe rogan
He's got a gun show.
I've watched his gun show.
He's got a gun show on the Sports News Channel.
unidentified
No, no.
joe rogan
Yes, he does.
tom papa
Get out.
joe rogan
Yes, he does.
I watched it.
tom papa
You're thinking of Joe Montaña.
joe rogan
No, no, no.
Joe Montaña.
He has a fucking gun history show.
And he shoots guns constantly.
That's crazy.
He's a gun nut.
Like a full-on Second Amendment NRA. Oh, no.
I don't say that in a negative way.
I like guns.
tom papa
Yeah.
I do too.
joe rogan
I don't like him, but he likes him though.
unidentified
Right.
tom papa
I'm sure he's not going to be open to any ideas.
joe rogan
Oh, maybe.
See?
Gun Stories is the name of his show.
tom papa
That's great.
joe rogan
He's a gun nut.
He's got a gold pistol there.
I bet he's rock hard right now.
I bet he's like Anthony Weiner rock hard.
Strapped down inside his boxer shorts.
A fucking angry hog.
Ready to go.
tom papa
He really loves guns.
joe rogan
It's a fucking show.
It's on the Outdoor Channel.
I've watched his show.
tom papa
Does it make me less of a man that my passion is bread?
joe rogan
No, no.
You're the sultan of sourdough.
It's not just that your passion is bread.
You take it to a whole new level.
tom papa
Thank you, Joe.
joe rogan
You were featured in the New York Times.
tom papa
Thank you, Joe.
joe rogan
This Joe Mantegna thing is interesting, though, because I haven't seen him in movies in a long time.
And he's a brilliant actor.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
I mean, this guy's been in some fucking amazing movies.
But now, what he does, he took all that money and just shoots shit.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
He golfs a lot, too.
I think he's always in those golf tournaments.
joe rogan
He might be one of them Arizona dudes.
You know, Arizona, to this day, is the goddamn Wild West.
tom papa
It's the Florida of the Southwest.
You know what I mean?
A lot of people end up there with their own ideas.
joe rogan
Oh, they got their own ideas.
Yeah, and that's why they had that sheriff to put everybody in pink underwear.
Remember that guy?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's still there.
tom papa
Aleppo.
Joe Arpaio.
joe rogan
Joe Arpaio.
tom papa
Yeah.
He just got in trouble.
joe rogan
He's good buddies with Steven Seagal.
He'll get him out of trouble.
Steven will get him out of trouble.
tom papa
Was that video real with Steven Seagal's Brando size now?
He was doing moves and stuff?
unidentified
Oh, he's enormous.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's enormous.
tom papa
He's really big, right?
joe rogan
He's enormous.
Yeah, I've run into him at the UFC a bunch of times.
He still has his skills?
Well, what those skills are, he's good at those things that he's doing in those movies.
Would those things actually work?
No, they would not work.
What you're seeing in those things is what you would call active compliance.
tom papa
Uh-huh.
joe rogan
So, voluntary compliance, maybe.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Where someone, look how big he is.
unidentified
Yay!
joe rogan
It's so hilarious.
It looks like South Park.
He's riding around, there's a bunch of people I've got to kill, and he's just got this enormous gut.
tom papa
He's huge!
joe rogan
He keeps making these movies, and I'm sure they do really well in foreign markets, you know?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's probably one of those things where if you're in Bulgaria, it's like Steven Seagal Night every Tuesday.
tom papa
It almost looks like he's kidding, right?
Like the way he holds the gun and stuff?
joe rogan
He's so big!
tom papa
Joe Montagna, by the way, was in Criminal Minds with 205 episodes and just stopped this year.
joe rogan
Who is this guy that he's...
I've seen, like, this guy before.
Who's the guy, the white guy?
That guy.
tom papa
Oh, yeah, I have seen him.
joe rogan
To say Code of Honor.
tom papa
Oh.
2016. Oh, it's coming out.
It's coming out now.
joe rogan
Look out.
There's a bomb about to go off and I have a knife.
Ooh, watch me walk away.
Dude, the classic walk away.
tom papa
Look how dyed his hair is.
joe rogan
The walk away without looking back as the bomb goes off.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
That is original and awesome.
Who's the guy?
Who's the other guy?
That other guy that's in those movies.
Does it say?
jamie vernon
Craig Sheffer.
joe rogan
Yeah, Craig Sheffer.
Okay.
Oh, you know who that guy is?
That guy's in that movie, A River Ran Through It.
tom papa
Is that him?
joe rogan
He was Brad Pitt's brother in that movie.
There's a hell that some actors fall into.
Yeah, that's him, man.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
Wow.
There's a hell that some actors fall into.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
I think that dude's nutty, though.
I think that guy's very nutty.
tom papa
I think he is nutty.
joe rogan
I was at a restaurant once, and that guy was, like, talking to a couple.
He was eating by himself with a bandana on.
He was talking to a couple about someone being an old soul.
tom papa
Oh, God.
joe rogan
Just one of that thing.
Is that him now?
tom papa
Wow, he looks so different.
joe rogan
Oh, he's got a wig on.
That's definitely not hair.
tom papa
Yeah, but...
joe rogan
What's going on there?
Back up.
Back up, Jamie.
Why are you getting away from that wig?
What's happening there?
What's going on?
tom papa
Just put a wig on it.
joe rogan
Is he crying?
Or is that a mouse?
Oh, that's your cursor.
Yeah, that guy was in a lot of good shit, though.
And now he's doing these weird movies.
tom papa
Joe Mantegna works.
joe rogan
Yeah, I'm sure.
tom papa
Criminal Minds.
He was in a really big series.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah?
tom papa
Yeah.
You ever see him on CBS? Oh, that's right.
joe rogan
He was in that fucking horror movie, too.
That Craig Sheffer guy was in that horror movie.
Remember that weird horror movie that was based on...
The fuck's his name?
tom papa
Werewolf?
joe rogan
No, no, no, no, no.
That one.
What movie was that?
tom papa
I don't know.
Johnny Scary Face?
joe rogan
I forget the fucking movie, man.
unidentified
But...
joe rogan
There was a guy who wrote...
tom papa
Tales from the Crypt.
joe rogan
What is it?
jamie vernon
Night Read?
tom papa
Ascension.
joe rogan
Night Read?
jamie vernon
He's best known as horror fans as the star of Night Read.
joe rogan
Night Breed?
jamie vernon
Night Read.
joe rogan
Are you sure?
That might be a typo.
tom papa
It's about reading Good Night Moon.
joe rogan
That seems like a typo.
tom papa
It's really scary.
joe rogan
Go try Night Breed.
Night Breed?
Yeah.
Yeah, who made that movie, man?
Because it was one of those...
tom papa
Look at that.
joe rogan
Who was the director and writer of that movie?
tom papa
It looks like a Halloween shop.
joe rogan
Because he was a famous sort of a...
jamie vernon
Clive Barker.
joe rogan
Clive Barker, right.
tom papa
That was Clive Barker?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah.
Clive Barker made a bunch of like really freaky fucking movies.
Like really interesting, weird takes on horror.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And apparently a very good writer, right?
Like his books...
I'm not making that up, right?
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You don't think so?
jamie vernon
I don't think you're making it up.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I think that's where it all started out, is from his writing.
I think he was a famous horror writer.
And then they did a few of his movies back in the day, but for whatever reason they didn't catch on.
But Nightbreed was a really interesting one.
And that Craig Sheffer guy was in that.
tom papa
Was he ever on Cigar Aficionado?
joe rogan
No.
Never made it.
But Brad probably did.
He probably got mad.
Bought the issue.
Fucking Brad on this shit.
I'm not here.
This fat guy is throwing kicks at me.
When you're in those movies, that's a fucking hell, man.
Brian Callen is a great guy to talk to this about.
Because Brian Callen knows a lot of those actors.
He knows a lot of actors.
And he's had friends that were really famous actors at one point, and now they have been forced to take these gigs whenever they can get them.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And they're away from their family for months at a time, and they don't make much money.
And their hope is that this does well, and that eventually, it's like you're in a holding pattern, hoping that you catch fire with a good film, and then it gets you into another film, and then you're back.
But when you drop off, and especially if there's a transitionary period between you being a 30-year-old man and you being a 50-year-old man, those 50-year-old guys are fucksville.
They're fucked.
Nobody wants you until you're 60, and then you're someone's dad.
So there's this period of time where you're not quite old enough to be a dad, but you're definitely not young enough to be the hot guy.
tom papa
The lead guy.
joe rogan
Yeah, you can't be really an ass-kicker.
Nobody's going to believe it.
You know, like, Steven Seagal has to do all kinds of crazy shit to maintain ass-kicking status.
tom papa
All the time.
joe rogan
Yeah, his beard's dyed, the hair is a masterpiece.
There's a lot going on.
tom papa
So maybe he's doing the Shatner thing.
Maybe he's like, I'll just put the weight on and just be a bigger guy.
joe rogan
It's a good move.
It's a good move, apparently, Shatner says.
Keeps your face full.
It's like the opposite of, it's his version of collagen.
Just fill it up.
tom papa
It's pretty smart.
joe rogan
Just fill that.
He does it on purpose.
tom papa
Yeah, I get it.
joe rogan
He really, allegedly, he says, he might just be an excuse for why he just drinks every night.
tom papa
Right, he can't stop drinking.
Yeah.
But he looked pretty good on Cigar Aficionado.
Jack Nicholson, I think, agreed is the best.
joe rogan
If they called you tomorrow, would you do it?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
What would you do?
Ah, that's a good move.
Is there a way to do it and not be wacky or douchey?
tom papa
Just you holding it, you feel douchey.
joe rogan
Yeah.
How about you just stand there and it just says, trust me, I smoke cigars, and there's no cigar in sight.
Look at that.
tom papa
Yeah, that doesn't work.
joe rogan
Matthew McConaughey.
tom papa
Does not work.
joe rogan
Yeah, I know how many takes that was.
If that was one picture, if he was just there, he pulled up in his car, hey, how y'all doing?
And then he took a picture and he had the cigar, bam.
unidentified
Cool.
joe rogan
But see, the problem with those photos is they are not candid.
tom papa
Not close.
joe rogan
So, if you're an intelligent person that understands that, and you're watching these fucking magazine stands, you know that there was some douchery involved in making this cover.
tom papa
That is one of 500. Brad Paisley.
joe rogan
Hey y'all, I got a white hat on because I'm a good guy.
tom papa
You want me to do it with the black hat now?
You want me to do it with the black hat?
unidentified
I'm a white hat sort of a guy, according to my record label.
joe rogan
So, is that Jeremy Piven down there?
Yep.
Oh, does he have a glass in his hand?
tom papa
You know they changed outfits, there was a makeup lady, you know what I mean?
unidentified
It's just...
joe rogan
Oh, what's this?
No cigar!
There's no fucking cigar!
tom papa
Yeah, him and De Niro had no cigar.
joe rogan
Hey, what the fuck is this, Kiefer?
Listen, pussy.
You're scared to pull it off.
tom papa
Look at Kramer.
joe rogan
Oh, James Bond.
No cigar.
Wait.
tom papa
Go to Kramer's over there.
joe rogan
By the way, best James Bond by far, right?
Daniel Craig.
No one's even close.
tom papa
Yeah, he's the coolest.
joe rogan
Oh, Kramer.
Look at that.
Kramer.
tom papa
He's lovable.
joe rogan
You know what he's thinking when he's holding that cigar?
tom papa
I love black people.
joe rogan
Yeah, I was just thinking that word.
I was thinking that word that rhymes with bigger.
Danny DeVito, he's got something going on.
What is he doing?
He's lighting it?
tom papa
Too adorable.
joe rogan
Danny, there's too many takes there.
I know there was more than one take.
Arnold, I can pull it off.
tom papa
I can do it.
joe rogan
I'm dead on the inside.
I don't care.
unidentified
This is good for publicity.
joe rogan
This is good for my image.
unidentified
When I smoke a cigar, it gives you the feeling of prosperity.
I live in a mansion in the Palisades and I fuck my maid.
joe rogan
I come inside them.
I don't care.
Leave your woman with me.
I come inside her as well.
tom papa
That's why his cover works.
joe rogan
Adrian Brody.
I'm just sitting here wondering what happened.
tom papa
You're right.
Arnold is the perfect person to have on there.
joe rogan
See, Sylvester Stallone seems fairly candid in that photo, but I'm worried there was too many takes.
I'm worried they took several takes.
There's a guy who looks pretty fucking jiffy for 70 years old.
tom papa
Even if you are Stallone and you let it go, do you let them put Stallone Zone as your captain?
joe rogan
No, no, no.
You can't do that.
unidentified
No, no, no, no.
tom papa
I kind of like Stallone Zone.
It's pretty good.
joe rogan
I like what you're doing.
By the way, I met that guy.
Fucking super friendly, nice, normal, self-deprecating guy.
tom papa
Very cool.
joe rogan
I mean, he might have been turning on the charm because I had to interview him for this thing for the UFC once, but he was fucking nice.
I met that guy too, Lawrence Fishburne.
Nice as fuck.
Super friendly.
Is that Rob Lowe up there?
Does Rob Lowe have a cigar in his hand?
How you pulling it off, Rob?
He's got enough douching him before I buy it.
Look at his jacket.
He's got that fucking golfing jacket on, that country club jacket.
jamie vernon
They just did the roast of Rob Lowe this weekend.
joe rogan
Right.
Why does he have so many layers on?
I'm confused about his white t-shirt, then polo shirt, then jacket.
Can someone turn the fucking heat on?
Rob's inside.
Why does he have to dress like he's layering for a fucking backpacking trip in the Andes?
tom papa
But you know, you hit on something.
If you embrace your douchery, it works.
If you're trying to not be a douche with it, It doesn't work.
joe rogan
Oh, Cosby.
Go down there to Cosby.
Oh, Jesus.
Oh, look, and he's got a glass of something.
tom papa
An espresso.
joe rogan
That's what he jammed him with, right?
Didn't he jam him up with, like, cappuccinos?
tom papa
He put it in a drink.
joe rogan
He did, because cappuccinos taste kind of shitty anyway.
You're kind of pretending it tastes good.
Get it with that fucking roofie in it.
That cunt.
Oh, my God.
There was one above that.
There was one above that, Jamie.
That I didn't recognize the gentleman.
Right to the upper left with the black blazer on.
Upper left.
Above that one.
Right above that one.
No, no, no.
Back where you were.
Go Cosby and then go up one and then to the left.
To the left.
Bang, that guy.
Who's that fucking guy?
The bomber.
jamie vernon
That's not real.
tom papa
Oh.
joe rogan
What the fuck is that?
Oh, it's a fake cover.
tom papa
Look at his Mad Magazine at the bottom.
joe rogan
Oh.
Well, what that's doing is it's mocking the Rolling Stone cover.
Because Rolling Stone put him on the cover and he looks like a fucking teen heartthrob.
tom papa
Yeah, that was douchey.
joe rogan
Well, it was weird.
tom papa
It was really weird.
joe rogan
But is it douchey?
Here's my question.
It's just a photo of him, and it is curious.
They took a tremendous amount of criticism for this cover.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Okay?
Well, I'm looking at this.
This is just...
unidentified
What happened?
joe rogan
You're looking at this.
This is just a young man, and he has a cover of a magazine.
tom papa
It's your job to put things on Rolling Stone, and you know how to look at things that make people feel a certain way.
So maybe they were trying to make them feel like, hey, a monster can look like this.
joe rogan
Yeah, but listen to the heading.
How a popular, promising student was fueled by his family...
What?
tom papa
Was failed.
joe rogan
Oh, was failed.
Was failed by his family, fell into radical Islam, and became...
tom papa
A monster.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
You're making that, see now, with the headline, I dislike it even more.
Because now you're making him seem like he's just a vulnerable, not, it's not his fault.
You're excusing him, I think, with that photo and that headline combined.
It feels to me like you're letting him off the hook.
joe rogan
Well, that is a weird question.
Why is it that you do that when you read a couple letters of a word and just fill it in for yourself?
I do that all the time.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Where I'll find myself, even if I'm wearing reading glasses, I fill in a word and then I go, oh, it's that word.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
For whatever reason, I don't look at the whole world.
I saw fueled.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Because I was thinking, okay, they would say he's fueled by hate or fueled by his radical religion.
tom papa
I wouldn't have been so douchey and corrected you, but I did change the meaning of it.
joe rogan
Yeah, but how old is this kid at the time?
Because I think if you're looking at him...
tom papa
That's like an 18-year-old kid.
joe rogan
Yeah, I mean, that's relevant.
I mean, you have a 14-year-old.
Imagine if your kid grew up in some fucking radical, crazy fuckhead religion.
Look, there's a good question to that.
How did this kid become this monster?
How did he become this monster?
tom papa
Well, his was his brother, right?
His brother was a big influence.
joe rogan
His brother definitely was an influence.
But I mean, he's in there, right?
So he's in this magazine, he's on the cover, and they have this picture of him that makes you go, wow, yeah...
What the fuck is wrong with that picture?
What's wrong with it is that he looks like a cute young guy that shouldn't have that problem.
They're not saying young heartthrob, you know, contact him behind bars.
They're just showing an actual picture of what he actually looked like.
How is that any different than the Ted Bundy photos?
Because the Ted Bundy photos, one of the things that was most striking about Ted Bundy was that he's a very handsome guy.
So it's kind of fucking creepy, man.
tom papa
But you don't put them on the cover of Rolling Stone, which is a space for the people in our culture that you worship.
Right?
They didn't put Ted Bundy on the cover with the Rolling Stone logo around you.
That's a good point.
You know what I mean?
joe rogan
That's a good point.
It's a good point, but should they bear the burden of that?
Should they be able to be flexible enough with their covers, with their ideas, to just say, what happened here?
Well, you take this guy who could be on our cover because he's a pop star.
He could be on the cover because he's a star of some new sitcom that's hilarious.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You're looking at that kid?
tom papa
Right.
He looks like a star.
joe rogan
He looks like a star.
tom papa
And that's what I'm saying.
These people, they know what they're doing when they're putting that cover on.
You are provoking, hey, this is a regular kid that going this way could have been on the cover of Rolling Stone.
They're definitely creating it to be thought-provoking.
joe rogan
Do you think when guys bang him in prison, they put that picture on his back?
unidentified
Yes.
tom papa
They've got it up in the cell.
joe rogan
They want to know.
Like, look, I'm fucking making it here.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
I'm banging this guy.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
He's beautiful.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It is kind of fucked up, but I don't...
Like, they're saying there's something wrong with that photograph, particularly.
Like, they could have had a picture of him being handcuffed, terrified, look at his face, shocked, covered with blood, or anything along those lines, and everybody would have been okay with it.
tom papa
Mm-hmm.
joe rogan
Right?
unidentified
Mm-hmm.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Wouldn't they be?
tom papa
Yeah, for sure.
It's because it's a sultry, innocent...
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Isn't that a problem with static images in the first place?
Static images are such poor representations of what a person actually looks like and who that person actually is.
It's one of the weirder things about photos, and then you see a bio below the photo, and you're standing there.
Tom Papa's been doing stand-up at clubs and colleges all throughout the country.
This is a portrayal, a two-dimensional portrayal of a person.
tom papa
There's a picture of me out from when I hosted this game show on Fox, just for a summer.
And there's this shot of me in a suit.
I look so douchey.
I'm glaring at the camera.
I look like a magician.
For some reason, that picture is everywhere.
Anytime I go to a city, anytime I go to perform, anytime someone puts an ad out for a show, that's the picture.
I would not buy a ticket to see that guy.
unidentified
I can't scrub it from the internet.
joe rogan
Oh, it's terrible.
I wouldn't buy a ticket to see any comic ever based on any fucking headshot I've ever seen.
tom papa
That's a good point.
That makes me feel a little better.
joe rogan
Even Bill Hicks.
Bill Hicks' headshot was him lighting a cigarette with the American flag.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
I'd be like, oh, what are you, a rebel?
You fucking clown.
Hardcore.
Oh, dude, you're on the edge.
tom papa
It's true.
There's no way to look cool.
joe rogan
Yeah, that was Bill's headshot.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But, you know, in his defense, in 1988, that was a radical thing to do.
tom papa
That was.
joe rogan
And that was back when there was, like, a big problem with people burning the flag.
tom papa
The flag, yeah, during the Bush, Bush I. Bush I, yeah, I remember that.
joe rogan
They were, like, trying to take measures to stop people from burning the flag.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
We're burning the flag!
And Bill Hicks had a bit about it.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
You know, my daddy fought for this flag in Korea.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
He goes, what a coincidence.
My flag was made in Korea.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Great joke.
jamie vernon
Did you hear about the controversy about the football player this weekend not wanting to stand during the national anthem?
tom papa
Yeah, Kaepernick.
joe rogan
What was he protesting?
jamie vernon
The country.
The whole country?
tom papa
The flat earth?
joe rogan
Is he a flat earther?
tom papa
He doesn't want to stand for a country that allows violence against people of color.
joe rogan
Is that what it is?
Is he a black guy or a white guy?
Oh, good.
tom papa
Mostly, I guess.
joe rogan
He's a white guy.
I fucking hate him.
That guy looks pretty white to me.
You sure that's a black guy?
Okay, that's...
There he looks very...
He looks a little Middle Eastern, if you ask me.
tom papa
Oh, boy.
He's a bigger troublemaker than I thought.
unidentified
Looks like you can see him hanging around the pyramids, if you ask me.
joe rogan
So, what is he saying?
He won't stand?
Did he have a statement?
jamie vernon
Yeah, he had a statement.
joe rogan
Mmm, always.
They always have a statement.
You have some fucking respect for people who serve, especially people...
Who says that?
That's on him, yeah.
tom papa
It's Boone.
joe rogan
Someone's really upset.
Drives me nuts.
tom papa
Someone's yelling about it.
joe rogan
My view is that the anthem is about honoring the people who serve.
This is another person, too.
Find out what his actual quote is.
tom papa
What was his quote?
joe rogan
I'm here to play games.
I'm here to salute cymbals, you fuckheads.
tom papa
It's not a requirement for NFL players to stand during the singing of the National Anthem.
It's suggested.
joe rogan
Oh, really?
tom papa
That they do.
joe rogan
It's not a requirement?
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It's probably constitutional.
Probably constitutionally, you can't require somebody to be patriotic.
Which is kind of ironic, isn't it?
unidentified
The freedoms that you get in this country.
joe rogan
Could they require that of their employees?
You could put the American flag on their clothes, maybe.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Maybe.
That's the big team.
tom papa
Put it on the uniform.
joe rogan
Big team goes to war.
We all get together.
It's like people go state.
First they go local, like high school team versus high school team.
Then they go statewide, where it's like state college versus other colleges.
Then they go NFL. And once they go NFL, then it's like state franchises.
That's the big league.
But the real big league is when all teams get together and they go to armies.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And the Army's the biggest big team.
And then we go to fuck up other teams.
So it's very important that we keep an active...
Organized sports program so that we keep investing in this idea of teams so that we can fuel the big team.
tom papa
Yeah, but the other part of it is if you didn't have the NFL, Pittsburgh would be marching on Cleveland.
joe rogan
Right.
That is a problem.
tom papa
They would be, right?
That's what they were invented for.
If you didn't have sport, people would, where are they taking that aggression?
unidentified
That's true.
tom papa
They'd march across and go after Cleveland.
joe rogan
Well, that's how we keep ourselves from going to war inside the country, inside the boundaries.
But it doesn't keep us from doing it outside the boundaries.
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
There was a whole Radiolab thing about the invention of football, and what it really was was that they had a bunch of men that came back from the war, and they were looking for something to do to alleviate some of the stress.
They created football.
It's one of the motivations for them creating football in the first place.
tom papa
Makes sense.
joe rogan
Totally makes sense.
tom papa
And you need it.
You need an outlet.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Like guys just run around like maniacs?
jamie vernon
18 minutes long, but here's something I'll let you read.
joe rogan
His speech was 18 minutes long?
jamie vernon
It's him talking in the locker room afterwards because all the reporters were asking him questions and wanted him to explain himself.
joe rogan
He says, I'm going to continue to stand with the people that are being oppressed.
Kaepernick, that's his name?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
To me, this is something that has to change.
When there's significant change and I feel like that flag represents what it's supposed to represent, this country is representing people the way it's supposed to, I'll stand.
unidentified
Huh.
Huh.
joe rogan
He said, I don't know if I did was right.
He said he hasn't heard from the NFL or anybody else about his actions, and it won't matter if he does.
No one's tried to quiet me, and to be honest, it's not something I'm going to be quiet about.
He said, I'm going to speak the truth when I'm asked about it.
This isn't for look.
This isn't for publicity or anything like that.
This is for people who don't have the voice.
And this is for people that are being oppressed that need to have equal opportunities to be successful, to provide for their families, and not live in poor circumstances.
Okay, that's a lot.
He's added a bunch of shit there, too.
tom papa
Yeah, it's important you get your message out in just a phrase.
joe rogan
Yeah, well, also, this is where it gets.
People being oppressed that don't have the equal opportunities to be successful, to provide for families and not live in poor circumstances.
That's one sentence.
The word, to provide for families and not live in poor circumstances is one sentence.
Yeah, idealistically, that's interesting.
But America's supposed to represent the entire group experiment.
You know, this experiment in self-government that's still ongoing.
It's not perfect, it's not done, and it's definitely got some dark aspects to it.
But if you don't think it's the best thing going, you should go look around.
There's some dark parts of America.
There's some dark parts about what we were talking about today.
I mean, how we were founded.
I mean, how this land was acquired in the first place.
It's acquired by fucking murder.
tom papa
I know.
Do you ever think that when we have problems that maybe it's karma?
joe rogan
Well, no, because I don't think it's us.
It's not you or I. But there is something incredibly fucked up about a country that is so willing to look at some aspects of our society that are discriminating Or discriminatory, like the article that I pointed out today, where this woman was writing about how women are drinking because of the patriarchy, because of sexism that's forcing them to drink, and this oppression.
The American Indians were slaughtered!
The Native Americans were fucking slaughtered, and they never come up.
tom papa
Genocide.
joe rogan
It almost never comes up.
When you talk about equal opportunity in America, very few conversations begin with, we've got to do something about the poverty and extreme alcoholism on these Native American reservations.
tom papa
You know why it doesn't come up?
Because we wiped out so many of them, there's just not that many left.
joe rogan
Well, there's enough left that they have a voice and they talk, but it's not something that people are concerned with.
I mean, slavery absolutely is fucking awful and is something that we absolutely should pay attention to and we should absolutely look at the impact of slavery over a long period.
Like with these people...
Lived as slaves for hundreds of years and then they were finally freed into this area where there's massive amounts of racism.
Not just racism like, you know, I like to stick to my own kind, but racism like where people are denigrated in their thought to be like a lesser human being.
tom papa
Yeah, it's systemic.
joe rogan
It's systemic and it's deep and then it's going to take hundreds of years, like many generations to get past that, right?
And we still definitely haven't gotten past that in a lot of those places.
And we concentrate on that and it's a big part of our national discussion.
But it ain't shit compared to what the Native Americans went through.
tom papa
Slaughtered.
joe rogan
Slaughtered.
tom papa
And their land just taken.
joe rogan
Just taken.
You know, I mean, if you read this article that I read today, I'm sure, first of all, again, this is not taking anything away from the people that suffered from slavery or the genocide that was committed on black people in a lot of areas.
tom papa
We could have two atrocities.
unidentified
Sure, exactly.
joe rogan
We can have two that are two big ones.
But I feel like it's not that I want less attention being paid on what happened to African Americans.
I think there's not enough.
But we should have way more than we have right now on Native Americans.
tom papa
It's fucking crazy.
You know what's a real violation?
You know what felt really dirty when I saw it?
I was on my motorcycle and went through the Dakotas and saw the Mount Rushmore.
And when you're going, when you're driving through these areas and you're stopping and you're reading about the Native Americans that were there and what they were doing and how many there were, and then to know that all that land was taken and all those, the civilization was killed, and then we carve in the side of the mountain these heads.
It's really...
joe rogan
It's all white dudes.
We couldn't find a single black guy.
tom papa
I am, you know, I am pretty patriotic to a fault, to like a naive level, but seeing that Mount Rushmore just felt really bad.
joe rogan
Look at my phone cover.
tom papa
I like that.
joe rogan
Patriotic as fuck.
tom papa
But seeing Mount Rushmore was just wrong.
And then there's a guy, there is a Native American carving a crazy horse on the side of a mountain to counter it.
joe rogan
Inside the richest Native American tribe in the U.S. where casino profits pay $1 million a year to every member.
Wow, how many members?
It says between the Mystic Lake and the six casinos, travel revenues are thought to be nearly $1.4 billion.
So that would mean that there's at least 1,000.
tom papa
There's 460 people in the tribe.
jamie vernon
They get about $84,000 a month.
Each person.
tom papa
There's only 460 of them.
jamie vernon
That's just this one, in this particular one, outside of Minnesota.
tom papa
That's the reparations.
joe rogan
Meanwhile, the ghosts of their ancestors are in the woods every time they go outside to take a leak at night.
They just hear screams and see people whisk by them with no heads.
It's like, that ain't enough.
tom papa
It's crazy.
joe rogan
It's disproportionate for the people that live there, for sure.
tom papa
Has there been any culture...
In the world that didn't go in at some level and wipe out the other people to take the land.
joe rogan
I don't think so.
tom papa
I mean, it's pretty...
I mean, ours is really...
Yeah, but, yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's pretty standard.
Well, it's what people do.
And it's also super convenient when you don't know what the fuck they're saying.
You know, when you pretend that they're not even one of us.
They're just talking much a gobbledygook.
We're gonna fucking kill them.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They're sitting on...
Their house is made of gold.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Just gonna jack them.
Yeah.
tom papa
It happened everywhere.
joe rogan
It's just, I think this is the first time over the last several hundred years, especially the last 200 years since slavery's been abolished, less than 200 years, which is crazy, right?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
1865, you think about that?
unidentified
Insane.
joe rogan
That's so recent.
tom papa
Insane.
joe rogan
But these last few hundred years of the printed word being distributed, reading becoming more and more common, which is really a very important point.
tom papa
Huge.
joe rogan
And up until a hundred or so years ago, it was not that common to be able to read, you know, in a lot of parts of the world.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
There's a lot of people that are illiterate.
tom papa
So no information.
joe rogan
A hundred years before that, super common to be illiterate.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
I mean, remember, they used to always have that in those cowboy movies.
We used to have to write your mark, make your mark on this contract.
tom papa
That's right.
joe rogan
Right?
Remember, they couldn't write.
tom papa
Yeah, a lot of them couldn't.
joe rogan
You know how to write?
unidentified
No, sir.
joe rogan
Well, make your mark.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And they would make a mark.
Remember that?
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Or make my little ex.
Nobody taught me how to write my name.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
So, what we have in comparison is now you have a phone in your pocket and you can talk to it and he'll answer questions for you.
I mean, I was in Seattle this past weekend and I just pressed the button on my phone and I said, Siri, navigate to the SeaTac airport.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
It goes, here's the directions to the SeaTac Airport.
It just starts going.
tom papa
It's amazing.
joe rogan
I mean, within seconds.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
The amount of access to the information that you need to sort of form your view of the world accurately is just so much different now than it's ever been before.
So now I think we're looking at what happened to the Native Americans, or looking at what happened to the slaves, or looking at what happened to this whole Columbus Day thing.
They're just now starting to decide that they're not going to call it Columbus Day anymore.
They're going to call it Native American Appreciation Day or something like that.
tom papa
Right, yeah.
joe rogan
Gee, about time.
tom papa
I know.
But I have to say, as an Italian that grew up in New Jersey, I hate to see that one go.
joe rogan
First of all, I don't trust him.
He's not a real Italian.
He's like me.
He doesn't have a vowel as a last name.
tom papa
Papa!
joe rogan
How come it's not Columbus?
What's the S, bitch?
tom papa
What's with the S? Yeah, you're a good point.
joe rogan
At Brown University, Columbus Day is now Indigenous Peoples Day.
It's right after White Privilege Day.
It's weird.
It's like they have White Privilege Day.
tom papa
Did you see what Chicago did?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Chicago University said, fuck you.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Fuck you, safe spaces.
tom papa
Trigger.
joe rogan
Yeah, fuck you, trigger warnings.
You little fucking babies.
tom papa
Deal with the world.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, they watched enough YouTube videos, they gathered the information, like a good institute of learning, and they go, oh, the date is in, and you guys are retarded.
tom papa
Yeah.
You guys are closing down free thought and discussion in the place where it's supposed to foster.
unidentified
Exactly.
joe rogan
Yeah, you're not just stopping racism, which would be a wonderful thing to do.
What you're doing is you're controlling the way people address ideas, the way they behave and think, and you're creating words that are dangerous, like that were normal, like words that you used to be able to use with no problems.
Now they're demanding things like, you know, don't call someone a spokesman, call them spokeswomen.
There's no more fresh man, there's first year students.
Like there's a whole list of them that, I forget what university put it out, but...
Dave Rubin put it up the other day.
Some university that made this new list of all the things that would not be tolerated anymore in the nomenclature.
All man stuff.
tom papa
Word speak.
It's called word speak.
They saw it coming.
joe rogan
Mankind.
How come it's okay, how come you can't be, how come a human could be a man or a woman, but mankind, we assume that means male, or it's a masculine sort of a, like, woman is in that too.
Mankind, woman.
It's a special kind of man.
tom papa
Good point.
joe rogan
It's like man that makes babies.
It's like it is a man.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's human.
tom papa
Part of these creatures that came out of Tanzania.
joe rogan
Why are we so goddamn fucking sensitive?
And I wonder if I would think that way if I was a woman.
If I was a woman, maybe I'm fucking tired of being a freshman.
I'm not a man, piece of shit.
I'm a girl who's a first year student, you cunt face.
I'm not a fucking freshman.
What year are you in, Sally?
Oh, I'm a freshman.
You don't look like a man.
unidentified
You stupid bitch.
tom papa
Living with all women...
joe rogan
I'm sorry.
tom papa
Living with all women as we do, you get an idea around the house of what's...
Truly like something that they would carry as an offense and what wouldn't.
joe rogan
Well, you also get a sense of how they feed off each other and convince each other what they're saying makes sense.
That's a part of the problem.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Yeah, I agree.
Nail polish should be mandatory.
And the next thing you know, they're fucking passing laws.
When do you get this broad, this Clinton broad in office with all their fucking wanky medication she's on?
Who knows if she's even seeing straight, bro?
tom papa
Dude, it'll work out perfect because the VP's a dude.
joe rogan
Here's a perfect example of people writing for, like a lot of different people write for publications.
HuffPost, they banned two of David Seaman, our boy David Seaman.
They banned two of his articles and suspended his account.
tom papa
Why?
joe rogan
Because he wrote articles questioning Hillary Clinton's health.
Is that true?
Yep.
Which is also the same reason why Dr. Drew's show got canceled.
tom papa
That's what they say.
joe rogan
Because Dr. Drew, he was questioning Hillary Clinton's health.
Now, what I've heard about Dr. Drew from actual doctors in regards to what he said, they didn't agree with some of the things he said.
One of the things that he said about armor thyroid, he said armor thyroid hasn't been prescribed.
I haven't heard about it being prescribed since the 1970s.
I'm on Armour Thyroid, and I've been on Armour Thyroid for about 10 years.
tom papa
What's it do?
joe rogan
He's out of his fucking mind when it comes to that.
It is for hypothyroidism.
I have something called Hashimoto's.
It's a thyroid disease.
No, it's not.
It sounds like it, though.
It's a thyroid disease that is an autoimmune disease that's hereditary.
My mom has it, my sister has it, and I have it too.
And your thyroid doesn't work so well.
And for me, it manifests itself in headaches.
I was taking this thing called Synthroid, and it didn't work as good.
It worked okay.
It was definitely better than nothing.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
But then when I got on this Armour Thyroid, Armour Thyroid is thyroid medication that's been made from pig's glands.
tom papa
Oh.
joe rogan
And it's very biosimilar or bioidentical to the actual hormone, so it's very clean and easy.
tom papa
Oh, wow.
joe rogan
My body has zero problems with it.
It really is effective.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
So I've been on this for 10 years, and my doctor is one of the best hormone doctors in all of the country.
unidentified
Yeah?
tom papa
Yeah.
He should meet my wife.
joe rogan
He'll just shoot her.
He'll say we can't fix this one.
But, I mean, my point is, this guy's a state-of-the-art doctor.
And also, I've told people about it that had a problem with Synthroid, and they got on it and then thanked me so much because the Armour thyroid works so much better for them.
So I didn't know why Dr. Drew said that.
Because he said that Hillary Clinton had a thyroid problem, but he thought it was weird they were prescribing Armour thyroid.
It's very common.
There's a reason why they still make it.
And he should know, more than anyone, being a fucking doctor...
tom papa
Is he a real doctor?
joe rogan
That people are not bio-identical.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
Whereas you have one person is allergic to peanuts, another person can't be around cats.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
You know, one person responds very well to certain medication.
Other people are like, Jamie, Jamie can eat pot and nothing happens to him.
tom papa
So weird.
joe rogan
He's a fucking weirdo.
But the point being, if I ate what Jamie ate, I'd be curled up in a fetal position calling girls I dated in high school, going, I'm sorry, I don't know what the fuck it's been so long, but I still feel bad.
You know what I mean?
We're all very different.
tom papa
Why do you think he doesn't understand that?
joe rogan
Well, hold on.
Let me keep going.
tom papa
I'm sorry.
joe rogan
Because my point is, people that I know that are doctors said that what he did was essentially malpractice.
You're not supposed to do that.
You're not supposed to diagnose someone without any personal understanding of their case.
You haven't talked to them.
You haven't studied their blood work.
You're not privy to their inside information about their health, how they feel.
You're taking this guess based on what's been released.
And on top of that, you're doing it kind of to get publicity and attention.
Kind of?
Yeah.
I mean, that's essentially what you're doing.
If he did it in a respectful way where he was speculating, where he said, well, I don't know about the specifics of Hillary...
This is how I would handle it, me being a doctor.
I would say, I don't know about the specifics of Hillary Clinton's case, but I do know, here's what can be problematic about brain injuries similar to the one that she apparently suffered.
Here could be some issues.
And this is what some people experience from brain issues.
If you say something like that, that is a doctor talking about a non-specific person.
You're not talking about a specific person.
You're talking about like, say if Tom Papa breaks his leg and Dr. Drew reads about it.
Tom Papa was riding a motorcycle in Africa and broke his leg.
Well, here's what happens when your leg breaks.
And when people break their legs, your body has to heal it, and here's some of the complications that come along with that.
Now, if he did that, that would be a doctor on television informing us about some real issues.
Maybe he thought as a voter and as an American, as someone who's genuinely concerned knowing what he does know, maybe he felt like he had to speak out about the dangers of someone who's had a traumatic brain injury having a position like being the president, what could be a problem, and then he looked at a medication list and he disagreed with it, which doctors will disagree with.
I've talked to some doctors, they'll say, like we were talking about the bulging disc issue.
I talked to one doctor who wanted me to get an operation.
Oh, you're going to have to get that cut out.
It's not going to get any better.
tom papa
And he's convinced.
joe rogan
Clearly he was wrong.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Because it got better.
tom papa
But he really...
joe rogan
He didn't know shit about Regenikine.
He had never heard of it.
He didn't want...
He's like, well, I wouldn't put any of my eggs in that basket.
I mean, it's just...
There's no research.
There's a reason why it hasn't been approved yet by the FDA. No, no, no, no.
There isn't, you fucking dunce.
And it works.
See, people are wrong all the time.
tom papa
All the time.
joe rogan
So, according to my friend who's a doctor, he said, you're never supposed to do that.
And what he did by diagnosing her publicly like that, you just don't do it.
tom papa
So if that's true, then they're probably justified in canning him, right?
So would you say that that kind of eliminates the idea that it's a conspiracy?
joe rogan
I'd say he's lucky he's alive, because she just kills bitches.
That's what I hear.
Hillary's just out there whacking fools.
I mean, if you pay attention to the same websites that will tell you about chemtrails in the flat earth, which are the ones that are truth, hashtag truth, they'll tell you she's whacked like a hundred people.
tom papa
Wow.
She's like Seagal, like a lighter Seagal.
joe rogan
Do you not know this?
Do you not know about this for real?
tom papa
I really don't.
joe rogan
Oh, okay.
There is at least 48 or 49 people that have had dealings with the Clintons who've been mysteriously murdered, including the guy who released all those emails about the DNC, favoring Hillary over...
He released them to WikiLeaks, favoring Hillary over Bernie.
Remember that?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, that guy got shot at 4 o'clock in the morning in front of his house, in the back.
Murdered.
tom papa
When?
Like this summer?
joe rogan
Really recently.
Yeah, like really recently.
And he's one of several people who's been murdered that had ties to the Clintons.
tom papa
What?
joe rogan
Clinton body count or left-wing conspiracy.
Three with ties to the DNC mysteriously die.
Yeah.
Yeah, dude, this is not a joke.
tom papa
People die all the time.
joe rogan
They do die all the time.
And here's the thing, you're not saying that she killed them either.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
But here's what you do need to know.
This is what's really important to consider.
You're talking about, when you're talking about someone like the Clintons, especially if you talk- stop for a second, you're confusing the shit out of me.
If you're talking about, he just keeps clicking on links.
How about that story?
What's going on over here?
What about I click this?
When you're talking about someone like the Clintons who run the Clinton Foundation, I don't know if you paid attention to the Clinton Foundation, but I have been slowly but surely going down a rabbit hole with the Clinton Foundation over the last couple of months.
And it is crazy what they got away with.
It's crazy.
And there's some pretty direct evidence.
There's some people that were involved, and they donated to the Clinton Foundation, and they got arms deals.
Now, whether or not they got arms deals because they donated, or whether they did that as a thank you for the arms deal that they would have had anyway, who the fuck knows?
But that's just one aspect of what's problematic about this.
I'm no expert, and I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.
Let me just state that for a fact.
But what I've been reading about what people find problematic about the amount of profit that's been made off of this, and the amount of influence that is being sold with this, and that how many of these people that they're involved with in these dealings are donating to their foundation, and then in return they're getting these deals passed.
It is shady as fuck, okay?
And the people that you're dealing with, in some instances, you're talking about weapons.
Bad people.
You're talking about arms dealers, you're talking about countries that kill people, countries with poor civil rights records, like Saudi Arabia.
You're talking about decisions that you make, you fucking know for sure people are gonna die, right?
And we know that about her.
That's just what, look, that video of her laughing about the death of Muammar Gaddafi, You ever see that?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Interview, she's like, we came, we saw, he died!
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Like, whoa!
The fact that the bar for being a president is so low that you could have a video like that out there, and it doesn't freak people the fuck out, and have everybody back off.
And then, on top of that, with all the evidence of all this weird shit that is probably just standard operational procedure.
So, here's my point.
You're involved with this interconnected web of Death of killers, of war, of tough questions that demand tough solutions.
And then you're involved with all these people that are used to killing people, right?
Now, if something like this DNC leak comes out, and it's possible that this could bring down a ship, and this ship is huge, and there's thousands of people involved in this ship, and you might be one of those people involved in this ship.
You might be like, I think I know how to take care of this.
And you step in, and someone dies, and everybody else shuts the fuck up, and everybody panics, and nobody gets caught.
And there's no ties to Hillary, because Hillary didn't ask for it to be done.
She's a part of a fucking giant machine.
So it might not even be that she's out there doing it, but it might be the fact that you're talking about...
tom papa
People will benefit from her influence.
joe rogan
Political power.
You're talking about the presidency of the United States of America.
You're talking about a gigantic...
Amount of the world that that controls.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
And she's in there.
tom papa
Right.
Hasn't every president?
joe rogan
Most likely.
tom papa
Hasn't every leader of whatever?
joe rogan
Sure.
It's the job.
It's part of the job.
tom papa
That's the thing that I keep...
joe rogan
What's us?
What are you showing us?
jamie vernon
This is one of the three guys that they were talking about that just recently died.
joe rogan
Okay.
Former President of the United Nations General Assembly John Ash mysteriously passed away on June 22nd, a few days before he was scheduled to begin pretrial meetings involving shady financial dealings regarding a former Clinton crony.
Local police officers said he died from dropping a barbell on his throat while working out.
But the UN oddly first claimed he died of a heart attack.
The 61-year-old was supposed to testify against Chinese real estate developer...
Oh God, he's dead as fuck.
...Nig Lapsang, who was implicated in the China-gate scandal for funneling money to the DNC for Bill Clinton through Arkansas restaurant owner Charlie Try.
Ash was arrested last year for allegedly taking over $3 million in bribes from the Chinese businessman, including...
Over a half a million from Nengalapsi in exchange for building a United Nations Conference Center in Macau.
tom papa
There's a lot in there.
joe rogan
Whoa.
And he was arrested.
tom papa
So he was arrested for taking...
joe rogan
Three million bucks in bribes, and then he was going to testify.
He was going to spill the beans, and they killed him.
Like a fucking...
Like a movie.
tom papa
What's that source?
jamie vernon
The website's townhall.com.
tom papa
What's townhall.com?
joe rogan
Well, the information, I'm sure, is not made up.
We should just Google his death and find out.
Clinton body count or left-wing conspiracy three with ties.
That's just one article and one website.
The facts of these people dying is undeniable.
They've definitely died.
Whether or not they were murdered or whether it's not some crazy coincidence that all these people were about to testify or had secret information or leaked information on WikiLeaks and they were murdered.
Fuck it, man.
And there was that woman, too.
Some woman involved in the DNC was also murdered recently.
jamie vernon
The staffer who dropped off the lawsuit, I believe is who it was, who filed the lawsuit in August or maybe in July.
He was dead in August.
He was found dead in his bathroom.
joe rogan
What lawsuit?
jamie vernon
Again, for the DNC. Again, for Bernie Sanders or something like that, I believe.
joe rogan
So he was killed too, along with the kid who released the documents.
jamie vernon
They think he probably did it.
They don't know if he for sure did it, but he was an analyst that had access to that information.
joe rogan
They believe it was him and he was murdered.
Look, they're killing people.
tom papa
Everyone's killing people, right?
I mean...
joe rogan
I'm not.
Are you?
tom papa
I can't.
Are we on?
unidentified
Well, the Sultan of Sourdough occasionally has to make dirty moves.
tom papa
Think about what people do for just...
A small amount of money, right?
The horrible things people do to other people for small amounts of money.
When you get up to that level of billions of government-sized money, come on!
Right?
You see all the accusations against Putin over the weekend?
How, like, all those people are dying?
joe rogan
Killed a reporter just yesterday.
tom papa
Yesterday?
joe rogan
Yesterday a guy got shot in the head.
The guy was critical of Putin.
Suicide!
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Definitely suicided himself.
What the fuck, man?
tom papa
It's scary up there.
It's really scary up there.
joe rogan
Did you see that video that a guy took, a surveillance camera, this millionaire who's having some, or billionaire I guess, who is having some big dispute with his girlfriend.
He broke up with her and so she allegedly beat him up.
She wants money and he has surveillance video of her lying on the bed punching herself in the face.
tom papa
No!
That's great.
joe rogan
Yeah, I tweeted it today.
tom papa
You did?
joe rogan
It's wonderful.
You know what's wonderful?
Listen, folks, it's not an us or them thing.
We have to stop this.
There's a thing that women do whenever a woman is involved in any sort of a domestic violence, abuse, rape type situation.
There's a thing that women automatically do.
Where they think that that woman is not guilty.
And that woman has been abused.
And that woman is definitely not lying.
And most of the time, you're right.
But there are a lot of fucking liars out there.
And some of them have penises.
And some of them have vaginas.
And this is something, as human beings, we have to stop being on these fucking gender-based teams.
It's stupid.
Because there are nutty bitches out there.
And some of them are men.
And some of them are women.
And this woman is just sitting there.
There's a video of her.
Hitting herself in the face.
Hitting herself in the face.
Screaming and yelling and wailing herself in the face.
Look at her.
She's fucking bananas, man.
tom papa
Oh my god.
joe rogan
Yeah, so she gives herself marks all over her face and then she calls the cops.
And she's having a temper tantrum and storming around and she doesn't realize that she's being filmed.
tom papa
That's crazy.
joe rogan
Yeah, but meanwhile, I don't even know how much of this is admissible.
Look, she's fucking hitting herself in the face so hard.
I don't know how much of this is admissible in court, in divorce court.
tom papa
I don't know.
joe rogan
Or in, well, not even divorce court, but...
tom papa
If he's being prosecuted for hitting her, right?
joe rogan
Yeah, it was his fiancée.
But, you know, this is what everybody said...
I mean, there's been a lot of these cases, and this is what Johnny Depp is claiming happened, where his ex-girlfriend was saying that he beat her up, and he said he didn't do it, and she must have did it to herself or faked it or something like that.
tom papa
How did that end up?
joe rogan
Who knows?
They're still disputing it.
She's suing Doug Stanhope.
tom papa
She is?
Doug Stanhope?
Oh, because he defended him?
joe rogan
Doug Stanhope wrote an article saying that he knows that she's a liar and that she was blackmailing him and that Johnny Depp had told him about it before any of this came out, that she had some demands.
I don't know who's telling the truth.
I don't know if Doug really knows.
I don't know.
Who the fuck knows?
I wasn't there.
But here's the thing, man.
There are people like that nutty bitch that you just saw in that video hitting herself in the face.
There's people like that.
They're real people.
That's crazy.
They have vaginas.
And some of them have penises.
It's not men or women.
No one's infallible.
We gotta get off these teams.
Because this is a real problem.
This is very divisive.
It really separates people.
This idea that anytime a woman accuses a man of something, it must be true.
It's not true.
It's not right.
We have to be sure.
And I don't know how to do that, but I don't think the way to do that is to automatically assume that even shady bitches are all telling the truth, always.
And then every woman who's accusing a man of something, without a doubt, can't be lying.
That's crazy.
tom papa
It's case by case.
Everybody's completely different.
joe rogan
And again, you don't want to blame the victim.
If someone is a victim and you go around and you say, I don't believe a fucking word you're saying.
And meanwhile, that actually did happen to them.
That's horrible.
tom papa
Brutal.
joe rogan
But we have to be able to figure out what is what.
tom papa
Yeah.
It's hard to not come up with a generalization in these cases.
That's...
If there's some way that you can get the people that are dealing with these situations to break through that barrier and look at everything as a case-by-case basis, I don't know how you do it.
joe rogan
We don't have enough knowledge of whether or not a person is being truthful.
And there's also an issue where people in their own minds change reality.
Like, you can have an argument with someone and they can decide in their own mind over the course of whatever weeks have passed that that argument was a completely different beast than what was happening while it was going down.
Your ego lies to you.
You start telling the story to other people with distortions.
Those distortions become a part of the reality.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It becomes the narrative.
It gets more and more exaggerated every time you talk about it.
tom papa
It becomes real.
joe rogan
It becomes real.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Most people, it's really hard for them to accurately and objectively talk about a very traumatic situation.
tom papa
Yeah.
Right.
joe rogan
And you're a woman, and you're engaged to this guy, and he really did beat you up.
Like, fuck.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Like, just trying to relay that accurately has got to be terrifying and bizarre.
tom papa
Oh, completely.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Out of your mind.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
And then you've got to parse these tiny little details about it.
joe rogan
How much is this dude laughing?
This dude has this video right now, though.
unidentified
That is crazy.
joe rogan
Like, when he saw it, when he knew he had it, he's like, oh, fuck yeah!
unidentified
Woo!
tom papa
And that's the thing.
She'll rationalize that.
joe rogan
I don't know about that.
tom papa
She'll rationalize it.
She'll be like, yeah, I just never caught him in the act.
So, you know, who knows what she'll do?
But she's crazy enough where she will have a working system in her head of why that's okay.
joe rogan
Well, this is also what you get when women fuck guys for their money.
You get people who are mad.
Like, if you want to fucking a guy for his money, say if you're an attractive woman like this girl is, and the guys are...
But she could probably do better.
You know, she's beautiful.
You get mad at that.
tom papa
Right.
You're powerless.
joe rogan
Never fuck over your head.
tom papa
Right.
You're right.
joe rogan
Just stay within your means.
tom papa
Yeah, know what you're dealing with.
unidentified
Because if people are not really attracted to you, man, it gets ugly.
joe rogan
It gets ugly.
It gets ugly.
It's true.
It's not good.
tom papa
You know, everybody has this idea they gotta get a supermodel.
It's the dumbest move.
joe rogan
Don't do it.
tom papa
Are you nuts?
joe rogan
Don't do it.
Don't fuck over your head.
Because you have to pay.
There's a deficit.
It's like buying a Corvette when you're still in college, but you got the student loan.
I'm gonna spend it on the car.
I'm crazy.
Bob bought a Corvette.
Get the fuck out of here!
And you go outside, and this fucking guy's like, I'm gonna start delivering Domino's, and I'm gonna pay this car off, bro.
I like driving a car.
unidentified
I have pride.
joe rogan
That's what a guy's doing if he takes a super hot wife, if he's a fucking fat, ugly, rich guy.
tom papa
Crazy.
You have to know if that's what you're getting.
Now you're competing with everyone who wants to sleep with that.
And that is a supermodel.
Just genetically, you've now increased the number of other alpha males coming for this person.
joe rogan
Plus, I think a good move is to always go foreign.
That's how I feel about sports cars, and that's how I feel about trophy bribes.
If you're going to get a trophy bride, get one from some war-torn region of the world.
tom papa
She don't know no better.
unidentified
She's just happy.
joe rogan
She's got food.
She genuinely loves you for taking care of her.
She's so psyched.
And if you move her family out of the ramshackle village that the Jews are about to plow down...
He can move her whole family out.
tom papa
Bring her family.
joe rogan
You guys will have a wonderful relationship based on actual appreciation.
tom papa
They just like running water.
joe rogan
Yeah, but if you date some blonde in Florida with big tits and she does coke.
tom papa
Who's come up through the minors.
joe rogan
She knows she doesn't want to fuck you.
You and your mediocre dick.
She's not into it.
tom papa
She's been studying how to get this done her whole life.
joe rogan
She's trying to think of how the fuck she can close this deal and make the big money.
And right when she was at the fucking finish line, you cut it off.
That's what happened.
He broke up with the fiance.
unidentified
So she's like, there's gotta be a way to make money out of this deal!
joe rogan
Bang, bang, bang!
She's just, she's just going, she's fucking throwing a Hail Mary.
tom papa
Well they have whole clinics like that for young athletes, right?
That there's, it's a business.
Do they?
Yeah, it's a business for women to come after these young athletes and get pregnant and do all these things.
They literally are counseled that this is one of the threats to your life.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, definitely to your livelihood.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, it's real.
And look, it's also...
It makes sense.
Because there's an imbalance, all right?
It's power.
Yeah, if you're like some...
Baller rich dude who's worth billions of dollars.
You got private jets.
You're pulling up everywhere in a Rolls Royce.
People open the door for you and you walk out with your sunglasses.
Walk straight to your private jet.
Oh my god.
tom papa
This is just like me this week.
joe rogan
Yeah, he's so unattainable and the resources are so ridiculous that people are in some way, some strange way attracted to him, right?
Everyone around is like, Mr. Papa's coming, Mr. Papa's coming.
When you see Mr. Papa, don't make eye contact with Mr. Papa.
If he talks to you, be polite and be egregious.
But whatever you do, don't ask Mr. Papa for money.
tom papa
That's Mr. Papa right there.
joe rogan
Mr. Papa's here.
unidentified
Mr. Papa's here.
joe rogan
Hi, everybody.
How are you?
And you just get the best of the best out of these people.
And they think of you as like, wow, if I could just get close to Mr. Papa, my whole world would change.
And it makes sense because everybody's trying to be nice to you.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Which is like weird, right?
tom papa
Total weirdness.
joe rogan
It's weird.
If you're some super billionaire Richard Branson type character, everywhere you go, everybody's kissing your ass and trying to be nice to you.
You get this really distorted version of humans.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
And women are attracted to you that shouldn't be attracted to you.
tom papa
That's right.
joe rogan
It's natural.
tom papa
But you think they should be attracted to you.
joe rogan
You should think They should.
And they get to fuck you and they get to smell you and realize what you really are and who you really are.
Like, ew.
I need to get this guy to fucking pay me.
tom papa
This guy's terrible.
joe rogan
Get mad.
Where's my Ferrari, stupid?
You know?
How come I don't have a villa?
And then next thing you know, you get this guy buying you shit.
tom papa
And other women are coming after him, so he's probably with them.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
And along the way, they're mad.
unidentified
The girls are mad.
joe rogan
Like that Donald Sterling girl.
The girl who recorded Donald Sterling saying all that racist shit?
He bought her a Bentley, a Ferrari, a fat condo.
He bought her a gang of shit.
And she was like, not enough.
Not enough, you fucking disgusting bag of meat.
You old leather saddlebag filled with rotten hamburger.
Fuck you.
I can't believe I sucked your dick.
Pay me, motherfucker.
Pay me.
tom papa
What do you think, honey?
What do you think of black people?
joe rogan
I don't like it when they fuck you.
tom papa
Wait, wait, hold on.
I didn't press record.
What do you think of...
unidentified
What?
joe rogan
Let's record.
What are you doing over there?
In that purse I bought you.
tom papa
Awful.
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Could you imagine?
When you hear stories like that, aren't you just happy that...
joe rogan
It's not you?
tom papa
Yeah.
That you just got married, have some kids, and you're just like...
There's a lot of things that aren't sexy about all of that stuff.
But being simple and just breaking it down to just, I go to my kid's school and I do my stuff.
Having a smaller world...
It is a relief.
joe rogan
It definitely is.
I mean, there's a certain level that you can get too big, and then things become like a giant, big, fat, crazy problem.
tom papa
They're complex.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Well, if you're at that level, if you're at like a Richard Branson level...
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's gotta be a...
Or a Johnny Depp level, even.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's gotta be a goddamn problem.
tom papa
Heady.
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
tom papa
Heady.
joe rogan
Lots of heady.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
Yeah.
You've got to be a real disciplined person and come up with a structure for yourself of working and taking care of your life without spinning out of control.
That's why a lot of people lose it.
joe rogan
Yeah.
I was talking to this dude in Seattle this past weekend who knew this guy who sued Paul Allen, the Microsoft guy, and won.
And now is scared to be in Seattle.
No, he never goes to Seattle anymore.
tom papa
Oh, really?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
He became super paranoid after he won.
So that's what I'm talking about.
tom papa
Careful what you wish for.
joe rogan
You got to too high a level of the game, son.
jamie vernon
How much did he win?
I don't know, man.
I don't even want to know.
joe rogan
I don't even want to look into it.
jamie vernon
Yachts that are worth $100 million.
tom papa
He owns islands.
joe rogan
Yeah, they have stupid money.
We were at the, there's an area called the locks, where the salmon swim through these ladders.
It's really dope, because you actually go underground, and there's a wall, a glass wall, and you can watch the fish swim.
Literally, the wild fish swim up these locks.
It's super fucking cool.
It makes you want to go fishing, too.
tom papa
Is it right near Seattle?
joe rogan
Yeah, yeah, it's Ballard, the Ballard Locks.
tom papa
Cool.
joe rogan
Ballard is like a small area of Seattle, which is a really, really fucking cool area with a lot of great little restaurants and bars and great community.
A friend of mine lives there.
tom papa
Oh, nice.
joe rogan
And him and his family took us to this place.
And so we went to this Ballard Locks thing, and we were checking around, and we were looking at it, and one of the guys that was there, that's it right there.
So you get to look at it through this wall, and those salmon are all swimming up this little ladder.
tom papa
Going home.
joe rogan
They're going to die.
unidentified
Right.
tom papa
But that's where they were born, right?
joe rogan
Yep.
The women salmon, the female salmon, they pump out the eggs and the dudes just stand over them and whack off.
They jizz on the eggs and then they die.
That's how they...
They don't even get to fuck.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
Have you ever caught a fish that has come in it?
tom papa
No.
joe rogan
When I was a kid, I used to trick question...
When I was a kid, I used to go fishing all the time.
I was big into fishing, and I would do a lot of rainbow trout fishing.
And when it was really great fun to catch them is when they were spawning.
And you would throw out your lure, and they would just attack anything.
They were super aggressive.
But then when you would pick them up, they would be jizzing.
Like you would pull them out of the water, and they'd be like, I took a chance!
Maybe there's eggs near me!
Because they know it's over.
tom papa
Does fish jizz like our jizz?
joe rogan
I don't taste it.
And I've never tasted our jizz either, trick question.
unidentified
Damn, you almost got me.
tom papa
It's a minefield in here.
joe rogan
You almost got me, you motherfucker.
But you'd pick them up and they literally would be orgasming as you're pulling them out of the water.
They're jizzing all over the place.
unidentified
That's crazy.
joe rogan
Yeah, apparently it's pretty common.
But I remember it a lot from when I was a kid.
I haven't had it happen to me since, but I do remember it a lot from when I was a kid.
But I don't do nearly as much fishing.
tom papa
So wait, so Paul Allen, this guy sued Paul Allen.
joe rogan
So Paul Allen has this guy at the locks.
This is a circular sort of a thing.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
The guy at the locks who I was talking to, I was asking him some questions about some of the fish.
He was pointing out the bays and how they changed this lake because there's a lake there and they didn't realize that when they cut this channel that it lowered the level of the lake and then that made it so the fish couldn't get back to the lake and it was a real issue.
They said they were stacks of dead salmon, like 20, 30 feet high.
tom papa
Geez.
joe rogan
Yeah, crazy.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
They would just go to the area where they had always gone, but now the river didn't go all the way to the end where the lake was, and they would just wind up dying.
But he was saying that Paul Allen and Bill Gates both have these insane $150 million houses on this lake.
tom papa
Wow.
joe rogan
Can you imagine what a $150 million house looks like, son?
tom papa
I... no.
joe rogan
What the fuck are we even talking about, man?
tom papa
I bet it's great Wi-Fi.
joe rogan
I bet the Wi-Fi's dog shit.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I bet he gets viruses every time he...
tom papa
A lot of malware.
joe rogan
Every time he opens up a room, a new virus, because everything's on computers.
You wear a tie clip.
At least this is the way it used to work.
You would wear a pin, and you put that pin on.
And the pin, and this is like many, many years ago, so I'm sure the technology is far more advanced than that now.
But the way Bill Gates had it set up, every time you'd walk into a room, the pin would recognize the user, set the temperature to your preferences, and play the kind of music that you like, and put a certain type of lighting on.
tom papa
Oh my god, it's gotta be amazing.
joe rogan
Yeah, but it's probably all outdated, which is kind of funny.
Unless he's updated it constantly.
tom papa
I bet he updates it.
Gets a new operating system.
Yeah, it's Bill Gates.
joe rogan
Did they ever do a tour of Bill Gates' house?
Trying, huh?
tom papa
I heard that it was mostly because of the technology, that it's not that massive.
joe rogan
Oh, really?
tom papa
That's what I heard.
joe rogan
Well, that'd probably be a smart move to not stand out too much.
I heard that he has a submarine that he could escape in.
He could drop in a pod and drop below in the basement, because in case somebody breaks in the house, you could just shoot out of a tube in a submarine.
jamie vernon
66,000 square feet.
joe rogan
Well, that's kind of big.
tom papa
66?
That's not so big.
joe rogan
I mean, it's a little bigger than normal.
jamie vernon
63 million to build.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ, it's worth at least $123 million, according to the King County Public Assessor's Office.
The property is worth $123.54 million as of this year.
Gates purchased the lot for $2 million in 1988, before Windows 95. It reportedly pays around $1 million in property taxes each year.
unidentified
Wow.
joe rogan
Oh my God.
Half a million board feet of lumber was needed to complete the project.
Wow.
The house is built with...
Scroll down a little.
The house is built with 500-year-old Douglas fir trees.
300 construction workers labored on the home, 100 of whom were electricians.
50 died mysteriously.
I added that part.
I added that part.
What does it look like?
The house uses its natural surroundings to reduce heat loss.
It looks like it's covered in woods.
tom papa
It's a little Asian.
jamie vernon
It's like the side of the thing, and there's trees.
They add it all around it to What's above it?
joe rogan
What are those- that wall above it?
Is that his wall of China?
It looks like an apartment building.
jamie vernon
There's probably other houses.
tom papa
Oh, back there.
unidentified
Come on!
joe rogan
The house can't be that close.
Bill Gates lives that close to his fucking neighbors?
jamie vernon
On the lake, maybe.
joe rogan
Come on.
tom papa
That's weird.
joe rogan
That's a house right above him.
jamie vernon
He probably owns it, too, I would bet.
joe rogan
I would bet he would own everything anywhere near him.
And fill it up with mercenaries.
He's worth too much money.
tom papa
Oh, yeah.
joe rogan
The pool also has its own underwater music system.
He did.
He did give a lot of money away.
There's a trampoline room with 20-foot ceilings.
unidentified
Whee!
jamie vernon
24 bathrooms.
joe rogan
He has a reception hall that can accommodate 200 guests.
jamie vernon
Six kitchens.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ.
Enormous library.
Houses a manuscript Gates paid more than $30 million for.
What is the manuscript?
tom papa
The Great Gatsby.
joe rogan
Wow.
Well, I don't know if that's it.
tom papa
Oh no, you'll find a quote from him.
No, I'm sorry.
joe rogan
Yeah, what is the manuscript?
jamie vernon
The Codex Leicester.
joe rogan
What is that?
Yeah, what is that?
tom papa
The 16th century, it's Da Vinci.
unidentified
Leonardo Da Vinci.
joe rogan
Oh man, he paid 30 million bucks for a Leonardo Da Vinci sketch.
tom papa
Let's go get that.
joe rogan
Let's go to his house and find it.
Well, apparently that is...
I was talking to this real estate agent who told me that that is a big issue with houses that are listed, that are expensive houses, and they're framed, meaning inside you go in there, everything's already...
There's really nice sheets, and there's artwork on the walls, and staged is the right word.
And so they have this artwork.
A lot of these houses, like if it's an expensive house, they have expensive artwork.
And so people break into these houses while they know that they're selling the house and no one's living in it.
tom papa
And take the stuff.
joe rogan
Take the artwork.
tom papa
Let's do it, dude.
joe rogan
Dude, artwork is worth a lot of money.
Our official stream is stocked with fish.
I wonder if he gets in there and fucks those fish.
He has a favorite tree, and it's monitored electronically 24 hours a day.
He reportedly became fond of a 40-year-old maple tree that grew close to the home's driveway.
It's monitored by computer.
If at any point it becomes too dry, water is automatically pumped into it.
Whoa.
He's in love with a tree.
tom papa
He loves trees.
joe rogan
Tesla was in love with a pigeon.
It's not that weird.
tom papa
Yeah?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Nikola Tesla?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Fell in love with a pigeon.
tom papa
Oh.
joe rogan
The sand on Gates' beach is imported from the Caribbean.
What a cunt.
unidentified
Woo!
Woo!
jamie vernon
35 grand to tour it.
joe rogan
Wow!
Microsoft holds an auction each year where employees donate products and services to bid on.
Proceeds go to the company's charitable fund.
Gates has donated private tours of Xanadu.
That's what he calls it.
Xanadu 2.0.
tom papa
You have to wear leg warmers when you go in.
joe rogan
Yeah, and fuzzy slippers.
According to the Puget Sound Business Journal, a Microsoft employee once won a tour on a bid of $30,000.
He's an employee.
How about you give your fucking employee a break, you twat?
tom papa
He wants to give.
joe rogan
Well, it actually goes to the chair a little far.
tom papa
Yeah, that's nice.
joe rogan
He also has a 228-acre ranch, complete with a horse racing track.
He's got a lot of cash.
When you read stuff like that, you go, man, I've got to become more of a baller.
tom papa
You're like, everything's free.
No, him and his wife say we're going to try and...
joe rogan
Size down?
tom papa
We're going to try and solve the world hunger.
joe rogan
Yeah, it's not going to work, but...
I applaud their efforts.
tom papa
Fix malaria.
joe rogan
Oh.
What, with the genetically modified mosquitoes?
tom papa
Yes.
joe rogan
That might be possible.
Or, 28 days later, zombies.
tom papa
Could be.
joe rogan
That might happen, too.
tom papa
Could be.
Yeah, no, the mosquitoes become even fiercer and just come and kill us all.
joe rogan
Yeah, that's where Mercer came from.
tom papa
Who?
joe rogan
MRSA. MRSA. What's that?
MRSA. Medication-resistant Staphylococcus.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
It's essentially medication-resistant staph infections that are ruthless, that tear through people and kill a ton of people.
jamie vernon
Did you ever hear about the Four Pests campaign?
I was going to bring this up when you were talking about those mosquitoes earlier.
unidentified
Right.
jamie vernon
This was in China in like the 1950s.
They were having problems with a couple different pests, mostly sparrows.
It's said in this case there were hundreds of millions of sparrows.
So there's a government mandate to try to get rid of them.
So people were literally going outside and banging on pans for hours at a time so that they couldn't land and they would die from exhaustion.
Ten years later or so, there was a giant famine because all the pests were stopping eating all the bugs.
The bugs started eating all the bamboo and rice.
And 30 million people died.
unidentified
The wind of a butterfly can become the beginning of a hurricane.
joe rogan
It's really what it is.
tom papa
Yeah, you can't mess with nature.
jamie vernon
But on this mosquito thing, this emergency they're doing in Florida, the officials are asking to skip a field trial, and they want to just go right into it and not test these mosquitoes whatsoever.
It sounds like that could be a bigger problem later.
tom papa
Where if Congress had funded this a year ago, they would have done all those tests.
joe rogan
Well, there's a lot of fucking people getting the Zika virus.
And on top of that, the latest thing is that now they find out that men who don't show any symptoms can transmit the Zika virus sexually.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
So you could have no symptoms and you just drop a load on someone else.
tom papa
Some poor trout gets Zika.
joe rogan
A trout.
tom papa
Oh, who are we fucking?
joe rogan
No, people.
tom papa
Oh, people.
joe rogan
The only people.
tom papa
Oh, and with a girl?
Not a fish.
unidentified
Yeah, girls.
tom papa
Okay.
joe rogan
And Florida.
And apparently, there was another thing that an unlikely ally, I was reading this, an unlikely ally of the Zika virus is high-rise luxury condominiums.
For some reason, high-rise luxury condominiums make excellent grounds for Zika viruses to start breeding.
tom papa
They live in the vents.
joe rogan
I don't know.
I don't understand why.
But there's areas where the CDC is thinking about roping them off and going, okay, we got a fucking problem here.
tom papa
Really?
joe rogan
Yeah!
Well, dude, the repercussions are dangerous.
tom papa
Yeah, what are the repercussions?
What's going to happen if Zika spreads?
joe rogan
The big ones are reproductive.
For women, when they have kids, the kids develop this horrible disorder where their heads are too small.
Yeah.
With the little heads?
tom papa
But, uh...
joe rogan
I wonder if you could just, like, get a balloon in their head and blow it up.
Flate their balloon.
Zika's accidental ally, Miami's luxury high-rises, low-flying planes, urban wind tunnels, and imprecise applications raise the risk of mosquitoes developing resistance to insecticides.
Whoa.
Oh, interesting.
tom papa
So it doesn't kill you, it just gives your babies little heads.
unidentified
Hmm.
joe rogan
Low-flying planes.
tom papa
So it's like, that's a wind issue.
joe rogan
Aerial spraying with ultra-low volume can only be done when there's not much wind.
Oh, the spray.
Oh, so the wind and then probably the high-rises are in the way.
And so around the high-rises they can't spray.
And they can't get low enough.
tom papa
You gotta get in there with like a bubbles wand.
joe rogan
Wow.
This is scary shit though.
Because this is just one.
That's the thing.
We went to the CDC, Duncan and I did, for this episode of my sci-fi show.
We talked about weaponized diseases.
And they were pretty frank about it.
They said, we are not worried about someone coming up with a disease.
We're worried about nature.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
We're like, no one has ever been able to successfully come up with a disease.
And there's all these fears and all these conspiracy theories.
What you should really be terrified of is just regular old nature taking a terrible disease and it becomes airborne.
It mutates, it changes, and they do it all the time.
And they had Ebola.
They had all these crazy diseases locked up in this lab where they had like these four-foot-thick walls and giant glass windows you look through and everyone in these spacesuits on.
They were attached to these exhaust vents.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
They were walking around with vacuum tubes hanging off of them.
It was really creepy.
tom papa
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
And inside those walls...
tom papa
Yeah, just one little sample of anything.
joe rogan
Mm-hmm.
And these are hurricane-proof buildings, so the building's designed...
Because it's right in Galveston.
It's near the coast.
tom papa
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
So these...
Buildings are designed to get impacted by gigantic hundred-foot waves and shit and survive and keep all the bacteria intact.
tom papa
Why are they saving this stuff?
joe rogan
Well, they want to study it.
They want to figure out how to solve it.
They figure if they keep studying it, they might be able to find different ways to keep it from killing all of us.
tom papa
Oh, my God.
joe rogan
Jesus Christ, Tom Papa.
tom papa
Just take some malaria medications.
The dreams are awesome.
unidentified
No, no, no.
tom papa
It's so clear.
joe rogan
But it's not just that.
Malaria medication doesn't work against the Zika.
They don't have Zika medication, you fuck.
Giving people bad advice.
What about Ebola?
Huh?
tom papa
Again, malaria medication.
joe rogan
You can dream that you don't have it.
unidentified
Right.
joe rogan
If you take it, the dreams are so vivid, you believe you actually don't have it, and then the placebo effect kicks in.
tom papa
When I was in the Africa with my...
joe rogan
You can't say it like that.
tom papa
I'm sorry.
When I was in...
joe rogan
White privilege.
tom papa
The Africa.
unidentified
Africa.
tom papa
In Africa.
Like I said, the malaria medication gives you a little upset belly sometimes.
joe rogan
Are you shit yourself?
tom papa
So when we were stopping through one of those little towns where I said I was all paranoid.
joe rogan
Right.
tom papa
And I went to go use a restroom.
joe rogan
Was it a hole in the ground?
tom papa
No, almost.
Pretty much.
Kind of like a port-a-potty kind of thing.
But as you go running in, this little boy, probably around eight, went, Hey, look!
Whitey man!
That didn't help with my paranoia at all.
joe rogan
I like that.
tom papa
Hey, Whitey Man!
joe rogan
That should be the cover, the title of your new special.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Hey, look, Whitey Man.
tom papa
Hey, look, Whitey Man.
joe rogan
I like that.
tom papa
It is pretty good.
joe rogan
I like that.
That's catchy.
tom papa
Me in a suit.
joe rogan
Yeah.
Yeah, you with like Colonel Sanders type suit on?
tom papa
Whitey Man.
joe rogan
Whitey Man.
See, you can't really offend people by calling them whitey, though.
tom papa
No!
joe rogan
Whitey doesn't bother me at Cracker.
None of that bothers me.
tom papa
Not at all.
Anything that calls out my whiteness is like...
joe rogan
Yeah, sorry, I'm awesome.
tom papa
Why are you pointing out my advantages?
joe rogan
White privilege!
tom papa
Then one older kid said, look at these motherfuckers!
joe rogan
Whoa.
tom papa
Yeah, he yelled that on our way into town when we were in our little open safari vehicle.
joe rogan
Really?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Was he saying it like in a mad way or laughing?
tom papa
Like a mad way.
Like, what are you driving?
What are you looking at?
joe rogan
Oh.
tom papa
What are you looking at?
joe rogan
That didn't feel comfortable, huh?
tom papa
No.
Just keep driving.
Keep driving.
joe rogan
White people just keep driving through this area where people go, look at this motherfucker.
tom papa
Yeah, with the name of the resort, of the place you're staying on the side, they know that, you know.
joe rogan
Oh, you got some money there, fancy man?
tom papa
Yeah, some money.
People coming from another country.
joe rogan
Yeah, fancy man.
tom papa
Motherfucker.
joe rogan
Ooh, very upset, huh?
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Did you close your kids' ears?
Cover their ears?
tom papa
I just went, oh, that was nice.
unidentified
Yeah.
tom papa
How about that guy?
joe rogan
Yeah, like, if I went to Tanzania, and I would like to go, I would want to think about how much time to spend there.
How much time did you spend there?
tom papa
Ten days.
joe rogan
That seems like a right number.
tom papa
It was perfect.
Because you're...
It's a big...
It's far.
24 hours of travel.
joe rogan
And what do you fly into?
Do you fly in Holland or did you go to...
tom papa
Amsterdam, yep.
joe rogan
Dubai is another one.
tom papa
Went to Amsterdam.
And I left from New York.
From here it's like an 11 hour flight.
And then you switch and then it's another 8 to 9 hours to Kilimanjaro.
Then you've got to...
Get a puddle jumper and get into the Serengeti, get into the Grimetti.
joe rogan
So did you stay in Holland?
tom papa
No, I just went.
joe rogan
Wow.
tom papa
I've done trips where you stop and we'll adjust for a day.
Just get it over with.
Just go.
Just push it and get there.
joe rogan
I did Rome this weekend, this summer rather.
tom papa
Oh, that's the best.
joe rogan
We did Rome first and then we went to the Amalfi Coast.
tom papa
Nice.
joe rogan
We did both of those.
tom papa
I've never been there.
I've been to Rome.
joe rogan
We were thinking about just staying in one place, but we said, let's fucking mix it up.
It was the right move.
tom papa
Was it great?
joe rogan
Oh, yeah.
tom papa
Great.
joe rogan
Both of them were awesome in different ways.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Amalfi Coast is awesome because you can't even believe it's real.
It's so pretty and so nice.
It doesn't even seem real.
tom papa
Gorgeous.
joe rogan
And then Rome is just, the artwork in the Vatican alone is worth a trip.
tom papa
It's amazing.
What I love about Rome, too, is that it's still a vibrant city.
It's so old and so much ancient history, but it's a young, hip city.
People are working hard and doing stuff.
You go to Florence and places like that, it's beautiful, but it's kind of like a museum.
Young people aren't going to make it.
There.
joe rogan
They are in Rome.
Another thing that I felt was crazy was that the Vatican is its own country with its own rules.
That's why the popes all stay there after they leave because otherwise they can't...
Pope Benedict, they wanted to try him for crimes against humanity and he's being shielded by the Vatican.
There's countries that are actively trying to extract him.
They're trying with legal action to get him out of the Vatican so they can try him.
Because the last pope was a really bad guy.
tom papa
I know.
joe rogan
You know the whole shielding child molesters that went on to rape deaf kids?
tom papa
He was a big part of all that.
joe rogan
He was one of the key...
Not just allegedly.
One of the key guys when it came to relocating child molesters where they would molest new kids.
tom papa
Yeah, he was the architect of moving a lot of the people around, right?
joe rogan
Yeah.
Has there ever been an organization that's fucked as many kids as the Catholic Church?
tom papa
Wasn't there a party that kind of felt at the Vatican like this is obscene?
joe rogan
Yes.
Yes.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
Well, it's human creativity and human ambition and this overwhelming desire to create something magnificent.
These massive fucking temples.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
These enormous cathedrals.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
You know, like St. Peter's Basilica.
unidentified
Yeah.
joe rogan
You wander around and you're like, this took how long?
Hundreds of years to make.
Hundreds.
It's amazing.
tom papa
Amazing.
joe rogan
But it's also that same psychotic behavior that, like, makes someone create something like that.
It's also responsible for all these bizarre cathedrals.
behavior traits that suppressive people that are in those sort of situations suppress people.
tom papa
And there's a difference between the people that are creating it and the people that are paying for it to be created.
Those people that just went in and took countries over and slaughtered people.
It's very similar to what we were talking about with the Native Americans.
joe rogan
It's also weird that none of that shit's even in the Bible.
That you have to have a pope.
tom papa
Right.
joe rogan
They all make that up.
That's a completely made up thing by human beings.
tom papa
That's the hardest part when you go to Rome and you start – there was a place, it was great, I forget the name of it, but it has a church, an active church, and then you can sightsee, you can go below that, is a really old church that, you know, just things, you know, in Rome, things just settle and they just build on top.
So it's this active church, then underneath, a really old church, and below that, way underground, is this pagan temple.
And they weren't worshipping Jesus.
They were worshipping these strange pagan gods.
And you just see, this was just man interpreting this feeling and using it for their advantage or whatever, at a pagan level to this level to today.
It's the same.
And the thing about Rome is like, if you go in there wanting to hold on to Your Christian beliefs or any of that stuff and you look at the history, like literally right there in the landscape, that this has just come from us trying to figure stuff out as there's no one truth.
It breaks all that down.
I don't know how you can withstand it without just pure faith.
joe rogan
They just put blinders on.
tom papa
Yeah.
joe rogan
I mean, it's the enemy.
Faith is without a doubt the enemy of objective thinking.
It really is.
Because you have to have faith in order to buy into a lot of these stories.
And once you have faith, you're just like, I'm on the team no matter what.
Okay?
No matter what Hillary did, I am on the team.
It's the same thing.
Being a loyal Democrat, being a loyal Republican, being a fucking loyal Mac user, being a religious nut, a lot of it is the same thing.
It's like this human desire to just...
I'm settled.
I'm this.
I identify with this.
I'm locked in.
tom papa
It's comforting.
You feel like you belong.
This is the right way.
I don't have to think about this stuff.
They're going to do that part of the thinking for me.
unidentified
That's why that pussy football player should have just stood up!
Put your hand over your heart, pussy!
I don't want to hear all this Black Lives Matter bullshit about equality.
joe rogan
Put your hand over your heart!
Your heart, whatever it is.
Your heart!
tom papa
If you're going to be a quarterback, you act like a quarterback.
unidentified
Listen, as an American, you want to play soccer?
joe rogan
What do you want to do?
You want to play cricket?
You don't like America?
How about you go play cricket?
tom papa
You get yourself some freedom fries and shut the hell up.
joe rogan
That's right, bro.
I gotta get in this fucking thing.
I gotta get out of here.
Tom Papa, I always enjoy talking with you, my friend.
tom papa
I love coming by.
joe rogan
You're a fucking beautiful man.
tom papa
I have to say, when I was out there on safari, you know, cruising around for all this time, I thought about you often.
I was like, he would love...
To see, I mean, just animals, eating animals.
Anytime something extreme, it was like...
And it's controlled and your family would be safe.
I can't recommend it enough.
joe rogan
They're too young right now to take the medication.
But I think when I get older, I think I'm going to definitely do it.
It seems like something that should be done.
Like I said, the Vatican was something that after I did it, it took a long time to get there and all that jazz, but I was like, I'm so glad I did it.
I needed to see that.
tom papa
When you get home, did you bring your family?
joe rogan
Yeah.
tom papa
When you get home, don't you feel like...
Yeah, I did that.
I got those kids there.
That was the same thing with Africa.
It was one of those.
joe rogan
I felt like for them, they had a lot of questions, too.
So it was really cool, like, looking at all this art.
I mean, you're going one insane room filled with sculptures to another insane room filled with other things.
tom papa
It's nuts.
joe rogan
The hallway is filled with incredible ancient maps.
There's so much going on, you know?
tom papa
Amazing.
It really is amazing.
Then you get home, you light a big, fat cigar, and you're like, that's right, I did that.
joe rogan
I pretend I'm on Scaravisionado magazine.
I pose.
So that when I am, one day, I'll get it right.
I'll be like...
Good night, everybody.
See you tomorrow.
Donald Cowboy Cerrone will be here tomorrow.
Tom Papa on Twitter.
Go watch him.
He's fucking hilarious.
See you soon.
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