Mike Schmidt, a former Dane County defense attorney, exposes how Madison’s criminal justice system—despite its liberal reputation—punishes Black teens harsher than white counterparts for identical crimes, like burglary, despite similar backgrounds. He details the Special Investigations Unit’s alleged racial targeting and prosecutors’ psychological manipulation of juries, while noting that wealthy clients exploit procedural loopholes public defenders can’t match, like flawed sobriety tests or biased experts. Even absurd cases, like proving urine was thrown at a guard, highlight systemic exploitation. Schmidt’s shift from law to comedy reflects disillusionment with unaddressed flaws, yet he argues most people avoid extreme consequences—revealing how racial bias and legal loopholes distort justice in America’s young, still-evolving systems. [Automatically generated summary]
That is one of the dopest fucking war dances the world has ever known, and it's going on right now.
It's not some Viking shit that they forgot about, that they probably used to do, but everybody who did it got slaughtered, or died off, or they didn't tell their grandchildren because they didn't want them carrying on the way.
And during the course of this hang, you started telling me about your past.
Before you worked at the Comedy Store, and you started telling me some really disturbing shit that you saw in the criminal justice system while you were working there.
And I was like, this is a fascinating subject, and let's talk about it on a podcast.
So I was a criminal defense attorney for about 10 years.
I was for the first year or two in central Wisconsin and then I moved down to Dane County, Wisconsin, which is where Madison is, you know, University of Wisconsin, all that fun stuff.
I know it's kind of condescending for me to be a white guy from the Midwest calling racism on everybody, but I'm just going to tell you what I've observed and, you know, what the numbers show.
Because the thing is that you can't argue with the statistics.
If this ever came down to an argument about whether or not these numbers are fair, these people are being treated fairly, we know where they are.
You know, they're in prison.
We can point to the actual people.
They could raise their hands if they wanted to and say...
I'm sorry, I think really what's important, one of the things you pointed out was in specific crimes, where a white guy and a black guy with no record did the exact same thing, the difference in punishment between the white guy and the black guy.
So if you want to count Numbers of people that have been arrested, I think there's a possibility that it runs into that quagmire.
Well, you know, how many black people are there?
How many white people are there?
Are they in bad neighborhoods where these things are taking place?
But what you're talking about is the exact same crime.
So burglary is a crime that There's multiple stages to burglary.
There's people who are very good at burglary who will, you know, knock on a house and announce themselves, say, hey, Kathy, just to try and avoid being charged with burglary under this statute, just the way it's worded.
But teenagers do burglary a different way.
They wait till somebody's out of town that they know, and they rob their parents' house.
And they'll take their Playstations and they'll take their liquor and everything and they get caught.
They'll usually do a couple of them and they'll get caught in a group.
And if that's your first trip into the justice system, you are probably in Dane County, you're probably going to get a deferred prosecution agreement.
If you keep your nose clean you'll get an expunction which is where the judge says I don't think the community would be harmed and I think you would be helped by Making it like this never happened so the police can keep a report of it, but nobody will ever know so The black kids don't get the offer of expunction right out of the gates the the white kids do and then When they fuck up,
and they do, because they are 19, and a lot of the white kids are stealing for heroin.
I don't want to sensationalize it, but that's what you do.
So they'll steal for that, they'll get popped again, or they'll get popped for curfew.
And now the deferred prosecution agreement is pulled, and so they're technically convicted of a felony.
At that point...
The white kids will still have options of saying, like, let me give this another shot.
I'll plead to more offenses.
I'll plead to more of the bail jumpings.
Let's haggle.
Let's haggle on what we're going to do.
Because they've already entered a plea on the record to the felony for burglary.
So they still have options.
And at the end of it, they're going to get probation.
They might get six months conditional time in jail.
But they're going to get probation.
And the black kids who fuck up the same way, who were charged with the same offense, in my experience, and what everybody else notices, they go to prison.
They just off to prison.
So, white burglars in their early, you know, late teens, early 20s, Conviction, deferred prosecution, possibility of expunction, then still fuck up, and then they get probation.
Black kids, one chance, prison.
And once they go to prison, you don't really get out of that system very long because they just keep catching you up on probation or parole violations.
And so that's just one example where...
Same number of convictions, you know, whether or not it's a kid with no convictions or a bunch of convictions, the determining factor was the race of the kid because they're both poor.
You know, the white burglar defendants and the black burglar defendants are generally both poor because if your parents have money, you just pay the restitution and you kind of walk.
Not in every case, but when there's money over the barrel, when you can pay the restitution in a criminal case, it's such a rare thing that the prosecution will bend over backwards to help you get that money to the people that you fucked over.
But since so few people ever get their money back from the prosecution of the crime, Anytime you can put the money up, they will bend over backwards for you.
So for a theft case like that, you could conceivably not be punished for breaking into someone's house and stealing something if you pay them for it back.
The act of breaking in, you won't be penalized for that?
Put yourself in the shoes of a prosecutor, where day in, day out, you convict people of crimes, and you give them time, but then there's these victims, and all they ever get to do is read a report.
All they ever get to do is sit in a chair and say, you really screwed me on this one day.
And then a lot of times the defendant doesn't even fucking look at them.
And so they never get to come with a win for their victims.
Yeah, if you look at the difference between someone who figures out a way to come up with the money to pay for it, or they have the money to pay for it, and they were just stealing for a kick or just to be a piece of shit, versus someone who has no money.
The only difference being is that the one person is able to come up with some cash.
I mean, the thing is, if the charges are already filed, you're going to have to plead to something or you're going to have to do a deferred prosecution agreement, but they'll make it as easy as possible.
So in order to combat, I guess, the view that people were becoming increasingly more violent, Dane County did this thing called the Special Investigations Unit.
And the Special Investigations Unit was supposedly a race-blind selection of the 10 most dangerous individuals in Dane County, most likely to reoffend and hurt somebody else.
And they staffed it with the Department of Justice and Probation and Parole and some other people that we didn't know that they staffed it about.
And so they just discussed these issues in the Sheriff's Department and the U.S. Attorney's Office and the And they made the list of these people that they thought were the most dangerous in Dane County.
And then they summoned them all to a meeting where they threatened them.
And they said, hey, if you step out of line, we're going to fucking max you out on everything.
So if you spit on the sidewalk, tick it.
If you disorderly conduct, we're going to hit you with disorderly conduct as a repeater and try to throw you in prison for it.
So you cock off even a little bit, you're taking the ride.
And also, by the way, we have some services.
So here's a place where you can apply for a job.
And they were all black.
That was when I knew there was no fucking point to this.
Because in Dane County, there are like 4.6% of the population or something is black.
They can't all like the top 10 most dangerous people in Dane County are not all black I know this because some of the most dangerous people in Dane County were my other clients and They're white and I was like I looked at the list.
I'm like I got other guys that belong on this list I had a number of people on the list when it first came out and then when they redid the list I had a couple more and when they redid the list with a new 10 all black So, I know black people are not evil.
I know they're normal.
I know they're just like everybody else.
How are they, you know, it's because it's white or black, the coin flip, white or black, they're telling me it came up 20 times in a row on heads?
Like, random chance doesn't even account for this.
There's no race-blind way to, and they told me afterwards, like, no, we did it in a race-blind way.
There's no way you did.
You might have thought you did.
So the system doesn't even understand how racist it is.
Like, is it possible that all the people that were the top 20 had the most amount of violent convictions, the most amount of this, the most amount of that?
And that was just, they just happened to be black.
So you're saying, like, literally, you could replace the list with white people that were violent, dangerous criminals, and it would be a better choice.
Yeah, it's weird, but the thing is, The system only works if you just come at the other side.
And the other side just comes at you.
Because you've got, you know, they've got the police behind them.
They've got the fact that they've got a badge that impresses, you know, civilians during the jury trial.
They've got prosecutors who have access to state crime labs.
They're gonna come at you.
And if they lose, it's their fault.
So they have to win these ones.
And the guilty guys give you an opportunity to practice.
Because if you only took the cases of people who you thought were innocent, you would suck when it came time to do their trial.
Like, you gotta practice.
You gotta sharpen your claws.
And the best way to do it is...
You know, win with someone where you know that they fucking did it.
And win it clean on technical points.
Because those technical points, like, you know, not getting evidence in, or when a prosecutor is asking questions during voir dire they shouldn't be, that type of little, those little backflips and shit, those will pay off when you actually have a client that you don't think did it.
Because is it something, I mean, I know very, very little about the law in terms of defending people, but is it something that you think is like...
Almost like sort of a chess game like you have a bunch of pieces and you have to manipulate them correctly and you have to be aware of the massive massive amounts of Things that have been written on each individual subject whether individual crime what precedents have been set and How to establish whether or not your client was treated fairly, and is that based on precedence too?
When you go into courtrooms in large areas, they take their inmates from the in custody section.
Sometimes they'll be in a jail next door and they'll bring them from a tunnel or little holding cells in the courthouse.
So they'll bring them in one side of the courtroom and then they'll put the jury box on the opposite side of the courtroom so that the in custody defendant doesn't walk past them on the way in and out.
Because if they were to get sentenced And the jury were sitting there.
On their way out, there may be some choice words.
So they separate the two of them.
And also because, you know, they're worried about them fleeing or whatever.
But the actual effect of that is that the prosecutor sits closer to the jury box, and they always have a case officer who sits next to the prosecutor in their dress uniform or their work uniform.
And they look at the jury, and they monitor the jury, and they keep their notes, and they help them, and they mug, and they listen to the entire trial so they know what's going on.
So it's a great asset to them, but a substantial part of the advantage that they get from having that chair is having the officer being able to look at the jury.
Because think about you sitting in a room, and you're trying to figure out what the fuck is going on.
Maybe it's a knife fight.
Maybe somebody's supposedly shot at somebody.
And a jury, you know, the witness leans forward and says something and you don't know if you should believe them.
So you look to the judge.
Judge is blank.
And then you look to the court reporter and the clerk of courts, blank, blank, because they don't want you to be able to read them, or they're working on other shit, or they're concentrating on writing what everybody's saying.
Then you get to the, you know, you get to the defense table, and there's the, you know, defendant looking guilty as shit, as they always do.
Not really, but...
And then you get to the prosecutor and the cop, and there the cop's looking at you, and he just gives you a...
And there you go.
You got some validation for your suspicion that the person was not telling the truth.
Just a little bit.
And that rolls forward from time to time.
Like, when you tell jokes on stage, sometimes you hold for a second, and you fucking look at people, and then they start to laugh.
When they lean forward to answer a question that the prosecutor asks that they want to answer, or when they lean back because you asked them a question and they're about to burn you, They're working the fucking crowd.
They're just working the crowd.
So what I would do is I would show up early as shit and I would take their table.
I would just put my shit at their table because their name is not on the table.
Most juvenile bullshit ever.
I would take the table and I would put all my stuff there and I would make them ask the judge to move me because That was not an argument that someone who went to Harvard came to the courthouse prepared to make.
Because my opponent that day did go to Harvard.
And fuck Harvard.
You know, like...
This is the streets.
Like, this is fuck-around time.
So I did that just to unhorse him mentally so that when the trial did start, he was uncomfortable.
I didn't care if I won or lost that argument.
I wanted that chair.
I wanted that chair because I knew what we could do looking back and forth at those people and just taking them that much further from the physical proximity of the jury, putting us close.
I wanted it for that reason, but...
More so than that, I just wanted to make him be a fucking six-year-old to the judge.
I mean, the thing is, like, if I can play for that advantage, and it's not unethical or illegal, because I can explain why that chair is better and why I want it...
Then I kind of have to play that angle.
Because I would hate for my client that day to be like, well, so you had a chance to really mindfuck them before you started and you didn't and now I'm convicted?
Well, how many guys who are working in your position...
Have such a clear mindset, though.
How many people have sort of punched out after a while because they've been doing it a long time?
Or is that a public misconception that you see in, like, movies where the, you know, the criminal defendant that gets assigned by the state doesn't really give a fuck, does a half-assed job, and the guy gets sent upriver?
I've never heard a lawyer put it quite like that, honestly.
We've talked about it before on the podcast where I think that there's a real problem with cops arresting criminals.
And not that they shouldn't, but there's a real problem in that it becomes a game.
Like you're trying to win.
You're trying to catch people for doing things, and you're trying to lock them up.
And when you're trying to win, because that is a win.
You know, if you get someone, you lock them up, you arrest them, you catch them, they get convicted, they go upriver, I send them upriver, I win.
And that is an absolute...
There's a certain amount of...
What we've sort of developed all throughout high school years and junior high school and whatever, kids play sports.
And we develop this winning mentality.
The game is to be won.
You know, whether it's a game of pool or lawn darts or fucking basketball, people are always trying to win.
And when you have people that are raised in some of the most intense moments of their life, especially if you've been involved in competitive sports, like if you've been On a championship baseball team or something like that.
You go from that and your next experiences in life are being a police officer.
You're going to definitely take that sports mindset and apply it to chasing down criminals.
And it could be good and it can be bad, but the problem is when people start justifying certain things like planting evidence and doing things along those lines in order to get a conviction because they want to win.
That's when shit gets really scary.
Because someone has an incredible amount of power.
And if someone is doing something to make you look more guilty just so that they can win.
During the NFL, I think it was the championship game a couple years ago, during the before the game, a trainer supposedly had let some air out of the ball, which would make it easier to grip and throw and catch.
Yeah, it's just, they're not as bad as people make them out to be in that angle.
Like, there have been some terrible scandals, like Rampart, but most, you know, like, that's not, that's the shit that's not really happening.
Like, that's the TV shit.
What really happens is, they're just not allowed to lose any interaction.
Like, they can't, like, when they finally decided that they don't have to chase people in California if they're going, like, 120. Less people started dying.
Because the cops actually had the discretion to go, we don't need to win all the time.
But all these other things like domestic violence arrests or shoplifting or tasers, they can't leave.
You can't back off a cop.
You can't be like, no man, I'm not going.
Because they have to get more cops and they have to keep getting more cops with bigger guns until they get you.
They're not allowed to walk away.
And they're not allowed to walk away from personal interaction.
That's the problem, is that we don't let them be themselves.
We make them be kind of these, you know, like, just always challenging people.
They don't want to do that, but that's how they're taught that they have to kind of act around people.
And they drop it whenever they can, like a lot of them.
You know, some guys never drop it because they really get off on that shit.
But they're in a terrifying and dangerous situation a lot of times where they literally have to have complete total control of that person and compliance.
If they don't have compliance, it leaves open the door...
To weird shit.
If a guy's not assuming the position, they can become more threatening.
I kind of get it in violent crime situations, but it's just got to be insanely difficult to figure out when to turn that on and when to turn that off.
You know, like you took the job because you wanted to protect people and have people respect you, and all you get is fucking disrespect and picking up shoplifters and having turds thrown at you.
We really do have to take into consideration two factors when you're looking at these videos.
One is the sheer amount of crime you're talking about that takes place on a daily basis.
So, what you're saying is, if you have, I mean, think of the many, many, many, many cities in this country, and the many, many, many, many, many cops having interactions with the many, many, many people who've committed crimes.
It's pretty rare you see a video of a cop doing something really fucked up, in consideration to that.
When you're talking about these millions of interactions, and to have one every couple months, people are like, God damn it!
When are these fucking people gonna stop doing that?
Well, A, it is very good that we have a method now to catch those people and weed those people out.
They don't exist anymore.
That's a beautiful thing.
But B, it certainly had an impact knowing that they're going to be filmed, knowing that it's likely to be filmed.
It's going to eliminate some of the Some of the corruption, some of the evil shit that we've caught cops doing.
It's definitely going to have pressure on them and social pressure that's going to cause people to change their opinions and change the way they conduct business or they conduct the business of law enforcement.
But at the end of the day, the numbers are shockingly small.
If you really stop and think about how much...
I mean, I'm not trying to be like a cop-apologist.
But I'm just saying, we really should take into consideration, whenever we do any of these conversations about it, how many fucking cops there are, how many crimes they're handling on a daily basis, and how insanely brutal that must be on your psychological system, your emotional system.
I've maintained a few times that I don't think it's a job that...
I think it's a job that very few people are qualified for.
I think you have to have a very strong mind to be able to handle that in a very fair way.
But here's my only concern, is that it would encourage people to get away with more on the line.
Because they know if they get pulled over, they're going to get the fuck beat out of them.
And it could cause the loss of other people's lives if they were involved in a car accident by someone who's frantic to not get the shit beat out of them by cops.
I just don't think you're supposed to greenlight when someone can beat the fuck out of someone.
Exactly, and I think that's what's most important that we're talking about here.
When we can take people and categorize them and say, well, this guy has X amount of melanin in his skin and his family's from this part of the world, so we'll apply rule A. Yeah.
Versus if this guy is a Norwegian, white-looking motherfucker like yourself, you apply rule B. What do you got some Sweden in you?
It was very disturbing when you were telling me this because it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense that some place that people would think of as such a liberal open-minded place like Madison, Wisconsin would be so fucking backwards like that and that no one's bringing this up.
They first started bringing it up in 2012. Since then it's gotten worse.
A couple of places have come out with studies on it.
Basically, in Wisconsin, adult black men are 12 times more likely to be sent to prison than white guys.
Black kids are 16 times more likely to be put into foster care than white kids.
And of course, if you're in foster care, then you're more likely to be prescribed, you know, pills and all that fun stuff.
And even for that, like in L.A. County, black foster kids are eight times more likely to be put on behavior-altering medication than white kids also in foster care.
So, it's, they noticed that the numbers were really getting bad then, and then they tried some shit to fix it, and it just gotten worse, I guess.
The funniest one was, I think it was in 2014, when there was another study that says, well, it's still getting worse.
They proposed a $250,000 gardening initiative, where they would teach children to garden.
You're locking up 50% of all African American men from 18 to 25. They're in jail or on probation.
And your idea is to spend a quarter of a million dollars on gardening.
Yeah, I mean, that's probably a good idea for, like, maybe a community center that wants to help kids out and give them some sense of purpose, but to sort of subscribe that to criminals or to people that you've convicted of crimes or...
And after everyone had a chance to talk, it was time for some hands-on gardening.
One table was covered with dried lupin and Larkspur plants that the inmates stripped of seeds.
After the gardening work was done, the inmates gathered again in a circle to talk about how to connect what they've learned from life after they're released.
John is currently serving time for his sixth drunk driving conviction.
Well, I'm fascinating as as a comic I'm fascinated by all those different There's like predetermined patterns that people can plug into like you can become a top 40 DJ and everybody knows how to do it top 40 DJ style.
All right There's just a way of talking where it just say oh well this guy's gonna play me some top 40 songs I know his voice he's on the ball and He's doing it perfect.
Strip Club DJ is another one.
It's like a similar one.
Politician voice.
There's a bunch of different voices that people are allowed to plug into.
Because the only way you would accept a woman in office is a woman, like an old, withered politician like Hillary, who's been in the trenches our whole career!
I mean, the sheer volume of information that that guy must have to process on a daily basis about international affairs between Putin and Syria and Saudi Arabia's doing what and what's going on in Turkey and the fucking terror attack in France and...
He's supposed to take care of national stuff, too.
So stop and think about that.
It's like he's got a hundred really fucking...
Strong, opinionated neighbors who like to fight with each other.
And you've got to somehow or another negotiate peace settlements and even send some of your thugs to watch over certain areas to protect them from shit getting crazy.
And he's constantly supposed to be communicating with all these generals and processing all that stuff.
God!
And then on top of it, he's supposed to be fixing the economy.
And then on top of it, he's supposed to be straightening out the problem with people having student loans that are worth vastly more than their actual education.
Maybe he was like, ah, I'm a senator from Illinois, so I guess my choices are get the fuck out of here or go to prison like every other elected official from Illinois.
You think about when he was 30, and he's thinking to himself, you know, I'm going to be the president of the United States, I'm on this path, and I'm seeing all the pussy that...
John F. Kennedy got, and I'm seeing all the power that all these other presidents had, and I'm seeing all the respect they got when they got out of office, and then Az obviously definitely didn't think that he would get all the pussy that JFK, I'm sure he's a faithful man.
But Bush manages to go through, and then social media comes around.
And in the midst of the social media world, that's when Obama steps in.
So the amount of scrutiny and insults and the amount of data that's directed his way, as opposed to every other president before him, is like unprecedented.
There's never been a guy that's been subject to so many different signals of negativity coming his way.
Because before that, people were sort of voiceless.
They couldn't really do anything.
But in Obama's time, blogs became way more prominent.
Online news sources in many people's world replaced the regular newsprint.
Where he was standing in front of the United Nations, I believe, He gave a speech about how quickly we would all put our differences aside if we were attacked by aliens from another planet.
Remember when there was like, that was the big conspiracy because Bush had like bruises and a black eye and shit and somebody beat the fuck out of the president.
But then he said he choked with a pretzel in his mouth and fell and hit his face.
Like if I was the Illuminati and I was going to beat up the president...
That's what I'd make him say.
I want you to tell them that you choked on a pretzel.
He has to stay kind of involved because you know that he committed war crimes.
Everybody knows that.
I mean, shit, he fucking engineered war profiteering against Against our own, you know, like so you think that he stays He stays active so that he avoids prosecution by constantly staying in the mix Yep, and George Bush did the opposite.
So they both ran in separate directions Dick Cheney shows up and says well, we had to torture him because we needed intelligence good.
It's good impression I try and then George Bush stays the fuck out of it because if you notice those guys don't travel internationally so much and Yeah, that's probably a bad move.
They don't travel internationally because the jurisdiction for human rights violations is worldwide.
It makes them technically hosti humani generis, meaning enemies of mankind at large.
So, just like Spain did with Pinochet, any court can try them.
They just need to be able to say that the courts in their home jurisdiction or where it happened are not able to do it, and then they can do it.
Yeah, there's jurisdictions where they know won't prosecute them.
Like they can go to the UK? Well, but the thing is, the ability to prosecute Someone for war crimes under the Hague and you know because these trend these human rights violation rules trump all the treaties they trump fucking everything except for a couple small technical points so a County prosecutor in Nebraska could file the charges against Dick Cheney whoa and Although
that might violate United States law and they might say you have to do it here or here or here No.
So, any enterprising prosecutor in Spain, if they could lay their hands on them, they can do them.
So, depending on the way that the country organizes its prosecution system, the lowest level person competent to make the decision could potentially try to jack them up.
Wow.
I'm saying his level of travel has to be so well coordinated because a fucking county sheriff could take him in for this shit.
Because the fact that nobody's ever even tried to do that and the evidence is overwhelming and clear that Dick Cheney, you know, for instance, remember the guy who authored the report saying that torture was okay?
That itself is a violation of international law for which you can be prosecuted.
So, and that's just, that's the tip of the iceberg.
So that guy can't, because when, if he, I mean, they can travel a little bit, but there's countries they can't go to because they'll snap them up and prosecute them.
Because, yeah, these just, I forget exactly what I'm talking, like, it's hard to explain...
Anyone can prosecute him for any of the shit Everybody has the proof and when he goes to other countries They will use the fact that we have not prosecuted him here as proof that we're not going to which will allow them to go forward So all it would take would be like say if he decides to make a trip to you know, whatever some European country Yeah, all would take is one ambitious person.
Yep.
That's what happened to Pinochet Oh And that was, I think, a decade-long fight.
County sheriffs also have the ability to release people from jail.
Because they run the jail.
A sentence only says that you should be confined for X amount of time, and the governor is in charge of the Department of Corrections, so he can let you out early if he feels like it.
And county sheriff is in charge of the jail, and if county sheriff needs a room, he can kick you out.
That's what he did with Paris Hilton.
He said, I need the bed for somebody else.
Get up.
And they can do that.
There are some minor checks on it, and prosecutors get really mad, but...
No.
They have almost free reign in the area of pardons.
A Clinton friend from Arkansas spent 18 months in prison after refusing to give evidence that might implicate the president and first lady in a bank fraud while he was the state's governor.
My family hated Richard Nixon growing up because when Richard Nixon came to Wisconsin Rapids, my grandfather arranged for a Cadillac for him as he got off the plane.
And to address the people, he stood on the Cadillac, scratched the hood with his shoes, and refused to pay for it.
So they can create 11,000 fake profiles on Facebook and send out friend requests and now they know where everybody is who's got their shit marked public.
Like, if you ever see marmosets at the zoo, put something colorful up against the glass and you got their attention.
And our personal details, although completely fucking worthless and useless and boring, it's interesting to somebody.
And so they want that shit.
They want to know who we're calling.
They're obsessed with that stuff because they're curious because they're people.
And so they collect it thinking we might get a use for this or we might figure out that somebody's a terrorist and then we'll get everybody that they call.
And then they hang on to all this other stuff because that might be useful too.
I mean, it really is other people's personal data, which we haven't really made the concession that if I use email, or if I make phone calls, or if I send texts, the government has all this.
And every time something like that goes to court, in an actual court, as opposed to their FISA courts, where we're not even allowed to know what they're asking for, when they go in regular court, they lose.
But then they just go and do it in the secret court that lets them do whatever the fuck they want.
I mean, maybe one or two, but you know what they like to do that's adorable?
They like to create terror scenarios.
Have you paid attention to those?
Where they talk a guy into blowing something up, give him a bomb, and then arrest him when he tries to detonate the bomb because the bomb wasn't real in the first place?
Yeah, and that was another thing that we learned about the Nixon administration with terms of the Civil rights movement and in terms of the anti-war movement.
Yeah, this is it.
This is the actual video itself.
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He calls in two friends, both actors, to help stage the inaugural rally.
What's really fascinating is there's one that's more obvious and more blatant that no one bats an eye on, and that's the Dick Cheney-Halliburton connection.
I mean, it's not family and it's not marriage, but when you look at the fact that this guy was a CEO of Halliburton and Halliburton gets these no-bid contracts for...
And elected officials are supposed to kind of sequester their assets in trusts, blind trusts, so that they don't really know if they're benefiting their ownership interest in Halliburton or Kellogg Brown and Root.
I was just trying to remember, like, I remember when I saw the Avengers, the first one, a couple years ago, when it first came out, and they fucked up New York, and everyone loved it.
Like, that was awesome, but it also could have been, it was the first time we saw the conglomeration of all the superheroes together.
I could go back and watch it now and probably have different thoughts on it.
They said that his stance and his stroke were unconventional.
So in the unconventional stance and stroke, I don't know if this is true or not, but did that put any pressure whatsoever on his spine in some weird way too?
When we pulled up the top ten earners the other day, I think we were doing the Fight Companion, I'd switched the amount of money they make from their sport to the amount of money they make from endorsements.
Three of the top four are golfers.
All of them make over $50 million a year in endorsements.
It's the people that are endorsing them usually are run by golfers.
Like big time business investors, they fucking love making meetings on golf courses.
It's a point of focus and it's also a point of recreation because they gamble.
You know, and they'll, you know, make deals with each other on golf courses.
So if they have, like, Tiger Woods representing them, or Roger Federer, or whatever his name is, one of those dudes, one of those badass golfers do it, they, you know, they feel like they're cool.
And what's really incredible about it, too, is that he went crashing to the ground, and then still, by the weight of his name, more than his accomplishments post-scandal, he's bounced back up to $45 million a year.
Dude, like, when you see the video from a perspective of a person actually driving the car, it's phenomenal.
I mean, it's amazing what a fast, insane experience it is to be in a Formula One car and make those turns.
Like, that to me is...
One of the most exciting things to watch in all of sports, because they're just, especially if you could look at it from their point of view, I mean, you're grabbing the cushions of the couch going, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.
Well, I was doing that on the side, but at one point I was like, hmm, they're never going to listen to this, so I guess I'm just going to go tell jokes.
Like right now, somebody, since we started talking, is getting something onto a computer record.
Because we used to not have computer records.
And so now somebody's getting a computer record that they shoplifted.
So there goes all their entry-level employment fucking for, I don't know, three, four years?
Good luck with that.
Have fun filing for disability.
That just happened to somebody else.
And it's going to happen again in a couple more minutes.
It's not the sensational cases that get you.
It's the grinding.
It's the every single guy gets a little more than some...
It's just a gradual creep.
Mothers Against Drunk Driving keeps bringing the legal limit for alcohol down and down and down.
But they don't change the study that they have the cops point to to say why the field sobriety tests work.
So like in the 70s, the horizontal gaze nystagmus test would say that horizontal gaze nystagmus sets in prior to 45 degrees only if you're above a 0.2 or 0.2.
So, if you've ever seen somebody get pulled over by an officer, and then the officer has a bright light, and they're on the side of the road as a bunch of cars go past like fucking strobe lights, so they'll have you look at a pen, and then they'll trace it like this.
And so, prior to 45 degrees, your eyes should track very smoothly if I move it quickly.
If I move it slowly, there might be a little bit of stutter, but I'm supposed to do the test quickly.
And then, if I put it there and hold it, I look for a little bit of aggravated nystagmus.
And so, the National Highway Traffic and Safety Authority, or National Highway Traffic and Safety Board, put together this one, and then the one-leg stand, and the walk and turn test.
And they say that You can tell if somebody's drunk if they fail these tests.
The tests aren't accurate at all.
And they were originally picked in the 70s when the limit was higher.
And they would say that these tests will only detect somebody above.20.
And then when they changed the legal limit, they didn't change the test.
So, remember in the 70s, your eyes weren't going to quiver over here unless you're above.20.
But now in the 80s, they're telling cops that the eyes will quiver above.10.
And now here in the 2000s, they're telling cops that the eyes will quiver at that point above.08.
What did they use to determine, I mean, if that was what was originally established, that you had to do this, the field sobriety test would indicate that someone was about, how, once the limit got lowered, how do they keep that same test?
Yeah, the tests are subjective, and we pretend that one leg stand with seven potential cues is somehow an effective way of looking at somebody and telling if they're drunk.
So you're going to order the squad video and then you're going to open records request the radio communications and the teletypes from the squad car to everyone else because they might be saying something racist or they might be saying something...
So you pull the teletypes, and then you're going to want the conduct records of all the officers, and then you're going to want to find out if you can pursue any administrative appeals of a temporary suspension of the license.
So you're going to do that because two reasons.
One, you don't want your client's license suspended, and two, you might also find some things because you might be able to get a couple of records and force the cops to show up and drop some paperwork off for you that you have in advance.
Then you're going to look at the stop and you're going to file a motion saying that the stop was illegal because of X, Y, and Z. Then you'll argue about the bail conditions.
Then you'll wait about six to eight weeks for the blood test results to come back as soon as they come back or even before You file a motion that you've been working on saying that the blood test results are problematic because they were illegally drawn or the facility is not accredited or the person who administered the test is not accredited or the machine has not been maintained properly.
At the same time, you order the reports for the machine maintenance because you'll find that when they do the blanks, sometimes they're not...
when they run them through a gas chromatograph mass spectrometer or whatever system they're going to use, When they do these samples, I mean, these are guys with technical college degrees or bachelor's degrees that have taken a six to eight week course.
And they might be pretty good at it, but there are still fuck ups.
And so sometimes things come in and they're not sealed.
Sometimes there's a problem with the vacutainer that they use for the blood draw.
And sometimes the stuff that they put in the vacutainer in advance Wow.
check that out.
So if you have an extremely rich defendant, everything from your fucking eye color is in question.
Basically, every step of the way where anything happens, you have a question about it.
So, was the machine properly?
And who programmed these fucking machines?
Can I see the code?
Because if I can't see the code to the machine, We can't say at all if this machine works, if we don't know the code.
And for a lot of these devices, the code is proprietary and they won't give you the code.
So they won't allow you to know how some of the machines they use to watch you work.
So you can't, as an attorney or as a defendant, you can't actually point to a problem and say, see, you didn't carry the one and you doubled my fucking result.
You know, like, this shows that it was...
I'm patient 4863. This is for this.
Sometimes they won't give you those records.
And so then you have a problem.
You hope, actually, that they don't give you shit.
Because when they do give you shit, it's proof that it's generally in working order.
But when shit comes late, it means there's a fucking problem.
And that's when you know you smell blood and you start to chase that down.
So, like, and then the next point you do is you go and you try and settle the case, and you think, here are the guidelines, because most OWIs guideline offenses, most places, because people get a first one, and then they get a second, and a third, and a fourth, and a fifth.
And even though the penalties go up, it's crazy, because the more OWIs people have, the less dangerous they tend to be during those OWIs.
Like, sevens will hit parked cars all fucking day, but they don't kill people.
Twos kill people.
First defense drunk drivers, they fucking kill people.
So what you have to do is you've got to do everything that you can do on that list.
Because in 90% of those times, or maybe even 99% of the time...
Those avenues will be completely fruitless.
Those won't get you shit.
Because, you know, stops are routinely rubber stamped, warrants rubber stamped, and the machines are generally agreed to be in working order.
And in a lot of places, there are statutes meant to protect you from even being able to get this information.
So, eh.
But...
Things that really do work are like, bring their family to sentencing.
Because most people who are convicted of crimes have been convicted of a couple of crimes, and nobody shows up for them anymore, and nobody gives a shit about them.
And what's going to happen is they're going to go in, and they're going to do their time, and they're going to get out, and nobody's going to give shit about them, and then they're going to do something else, and then they're going to go back in.
But if you've got a family there, the judge can see...
Well, somebody still cares about this asshole.
Somebody still thinks there's some good in him.
I bet there's some good in him.
And I got a couple people who are willing to show up and watch him take his medicine.
Watch him see that...
Watch him admit he fucked up and promise to try to be better.
So these guys are kind of on our side.
These guys are going to try and help this guy not come back here.
And that will shorten your sentence.
If you have supportive people in your side of the room, that will shorten your sentence.
Um...
Things that are open to rich people.
Almost all expert witnesses are whores.
People would ask me, how do you choose an expert?
And I'd be like, I just ask everybody else what kind of expert they use.
And I'm like, what if the expert says something you don't want them to say?
I'm like, that does not happen.
And they're like, do you tell the expert what to say?
No.
The expert knows if a prosecution or defense or plaintiff or defendant calls them.
They know which side you're on.
And miraculously, every fucking expert I've ever offered money to, to give me their honest and completely unbiased opinion, has said I was right.
And there's a business in being a whore, so like...
Like, if you're looking for a guy who's a DNA expert, or you're looking for a guy who's a chemical expert, like, you know the guy to call because other friends have used him on similar cases.
If you, okay, if you're a public defender's office, you can pay no more than a grand, or $1,500 I think it is, and you gotta pay it out of your own pocket, and then they'll reimburse you in like six months after the trial's done.
So, you don't have experts, functionally.
If you got money, an expert can run you $15,000.
But it depends on the type of case, if it's medical or if it's...
And the state will fly...
This is a beautiful thing.
If you throw piss on a guard, do you know it's hard for them to tell that it's piss?
But it's a felony in most jurisdictions to throw urine on security personnel at a prison.
It's called gassing.
But it costs extra money because there are actually very few experts who can say that this is urine that this person threw on him.
Like the test for urine versus...
It's just it costs money to fly someone to say that this guy did throw piss on this guard and here's a scientist who can say beyond a reasonable doubt that was piss.
They really have to fly someone from Philadelphia sometimes to Wisconsin to say that was piss.
That's how fucked up our system is.
That to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it was piss in a felony trial, we need a scientist.
So no wonder they're fucking whores, because that's the shit we put up.
Like, we make them privy or part of our little stupid disputes like that continuously, and it warps them just the same way it warps everyone else.
But not important, because what if something happens, and you happen to be driving while black, and all of a sudden you're in the same situation that you described.
I wasn't aware of it to the extent, obviously I have zero knowledge of what it's like in Madison, Wisconsin, other than the few times I've visited.
So hearing you describe it, and especially zero knowledge of what it's like inside the criminal justice system, but hearing you describe it, It's pretty disheartening.
It's atrocious.
It's scary, and it seems inexcusable.
It seems like if you're looking at the raw data, as far as what happens to people if they're black and what happens to people if they're white, if they're first offenders.
You know, I was in Yellowstone recently, and it was really beautiful.
But one of the things that was freaking me out was that it was created by an act of Congress in 1872. And I was thinking, good Lord, like 1872, you know, I was alive in 1972. That's not that long ago.
That's like fairly recently.
And then I was thinking, that's only seven years after slavery was abolished.
There's countries that are seven times as old as we are.
I want to say one more thing about that criminal justice system.
It's weird because, yeah, gas-powered automobile, electricity, telecommunications, space travel, end of slavery, and we still have fundamentally the same criminal justice system.
We didn't improve on it one bit.
We added a couple things, but it's not fundamentally different.
It's the Dana Law.
Vikings used to use it, and then it became the English Common Law.
See, what I think we should do is, I think we should fucking put the feelers out, put the vibes out, and then if we see, like, a population that gets treated like shit, we should fucking just steal them.
Just like, you know, there's countries where it's illegal to be homosexual, but...
You know, like, we got room.
We should just be like, hey, we'll take all of them.
What do you think is going to happen if Trump becomes president and we have this social justice warrior president of Canada, their prime minister is like, they're going to explore the idea of gender neutral identity cards.
Do you think a guy should get off with time served plus restitution if you can make...
Dick porn in jail, like say if that guy didn't do anything like too terrible, maybe just robbed a bunch of liquor stores or something like that, and all of a sudden he's in jail, and he realizes that he's practiced by himself in his zen room so long that he could get his dick hard and come all over himself.
People would pay money to see that.
So if he starts like his own, I jizz on myself, website from jail, webcam service, makes a lot of money, he gives it to the victims.
I think he should start by, I think anyone who's interested in doing that, whatever correctional facility they're in, perhaps write to the judge that sentenced you and request that you do the same, or just an opportunity.
Yeah, because he was saying that they would unzip their flies, potentially, and then take advantage of the fact that we didn't say anything about it the next time.
Mm-hmm.
Basically, to get us to commit a minor offense, or break a little rule, or lead us a little bit down the path, and then next time they would try to take their dicks out.
Yeah, they're like, by the way, there's some dick in here.
And then next time, there'll be more...
Because there's a lot of sociopaths in prison.
A lot.
Because for a lot of people, what it comes down to is the sentencing.
Because they're guilty as shit.
There's a lot of witnesses, you know?
And they don't have...
They're not made of money, so they can't pay some expert to write a report saying that jail would hurt their feelings, which they fucking do if you have money.
It comes down to a lot of being able to take ownership of what happened and what you did.
And a lot of sociopaths are in prison because they're too stupid to listen to how everybody else apologizes.
So sociopaths will say something like, you know, I'm sorry that I played a part in all of this.
Or, you know, I'm not going to put myself in situations like this anymore, Your Honor.
When they're being convicted of beating the shit out of somebody, they'll say, I'm not going to put myself in situations like this.
Sounds like they're taking ownership.
But putting a situation just means you're one small part of...
This fucking situation, which could include multiple aggressors and loud noises and drinking.
And to somebody that is making the apology, it sounds like it works.
But to a room full of people that hear nothing but apologies all day, we go, oh, he's gonna be back.
And the judges listen for that shit very intently.
There's ways to fuck up an apology.
And the only people who fuck up the apologies in that specific way are almost completely incapable of putting themselves in anybody else's shoes.
And those types of people tend to do certain types of things.
Where they're always out for themselves, me, me, me.
Why does he get to do that?
Why can't I do that?
Like that shit.
Like that childish bullshit, self-centered, selfish, but they're an adult.
That's just what a sociopath is.
It's not that impressive.
It's not like, you know, fucking Silence of the Lambs or some shit.
In your experience dealing with so many of these different people and so many different criminals, do you think it's a nature thing or a nurture thing?
Like, didn't they say that Jeffrey Dahmer, wasn't he a good example of a guy who allegedly had a pretty stable childhood with loving parents and became a serial killer?
Well, if you think about the way a human being could vary, the way we behave, you could be, like, the most beautiful, generous, kind, caring person, or you could be a brutal dictator in the Congo and chopping people's arms off.
You could be either one of those and still be a human being.
So if you think about that, and you think about the conditions that you have to sort of adapt to, and if you're growing up in some hellacious condition, and you adapted to that hellacious condition, and you are literally a product of society.
Now, when you come across people like that, because you're in the criminal defense attorney world, and you have to represent these people, Do you try to think, like, is there a way to fix this guy?
I mean, do you put that in your head, or do you just go and try to win?
Well, when I would get them to do the apologies, because one of...
I mean, the thing is, like...
For a lot of these guys, too many witnesses, too much of a record, it's coming down to this fucking apology.
It's coming down to our plan for what we're gonna do next, and talking with them and coming up with a reasonable plan about what they're gonna do after jail, or what they could do instead of jail.
And addressing why they did something wrong.
Why was it wrong?
I would go through with my clients a lot of times if I wasn't sure that they were getting it, and I would be like, okay, so you're going to have to give an apology to the judge.
You're going to have to tell them that what you did is wrong.
You're going to have to tell them that you know that it was wrong.
And you're going to have to tell them you know why it was wrong.
So, why is it wrong to hit your girlfriend?
She doesn't want me to?
Well, okay.
Alright.
There's one.
When you hit your girlfriend, what do the police have to do?
They have to show up and they have to arrest me.
Were you nice to them?
No.
Do you think they liked that?
No.
Do you think now would be the time to apologize for being a dick to them when they were just doing their jobs?
You've never been in the community with more than this for more than this length of time without doing this and I'd be like well We can't lie to them and tell them like I would make a list of shit that I wish was true and I'd be like one of these things can I fucking just make true like Can I get this person to do these job applications?
Yeah Yeah, I could totally do that.
Like, if I could bail him out for, like, if I can get him to make his bail, if I can get his bail low enough, and then I can get him to submit job applications every single week, it was a lie when I came up with it a couple minutes ago, but in six months, when this case finally goes in front of the judge...
He'll probably have a job.
And they would.
Like, you just think about some shit you want to be true.
Figure out how to make it true.
And, you know, like, maybe he's got to have his kids back.
Or maybe he's got to have a better relationship with his kids.
Which means you start writing the fucking letters now.
Because in six months, have him show up.
Like, just...
Because the thing is, like, yeah, it's a lie if you have no intention of making it true.
So do you feel like you're coaching these guys not just through their trial, but maybe through their understanding of the implications of their crime as well?
Like, are you in some way sort of educating them into, you know, because they have to be honest about it.
Yeah, yeah, I would I mean to the extent that I thought it was appropriate like because I'm in a position of power you know Emotional abuse is not proper.
And, like, I've sat next to people who've, you know...
Done horrible things to people where they don't make my skin crawl and yet these other people are just so far beyond them in terms of like we don't like we should probably lock you up forever like and you can't do anything because you you you sort of have a mandate right you have to win oh yeah I have to make them beat me oh Do you drink after work?
Well, because the thing is, as a defense attorney, you're going to get your ass handed to you so many fucking times that if I drank one time for every time I didn't like what a judge decided, I would have been dead seven years ago.
Well, I was in Wisconsin, but I moved here in January of last year, and honestly, I really like Pauly Shore.
No, like, I was a kid in the 80s, so when I would see Sam Kinison on TV, and Pauly Shore on TV, and everybody on TV, like, it always wound its way back to the store.
Like, Pauly Shore's first album is, I think, recorded at the Comedy Store, and you can hear Ron Jeremy and Gary Coleman in the background.
Like, it's nuts.
And, like, Laugh Factory doesn't hire comics, you know, and improv is it.
Like, the store is kind of an icon, and I worked in comedy clubs before, so I was like, hey.
Also, the reality of it is, like, the potluck is so hard to get on.
That Monday night potluck and I had signed up every single Monday for six months and I hadn't gotten on once and then They they put out a list saying they're gonna do auditions for the new door guys.
So I signed up for it So that I could get on the potluck But then it just went really well Wow Six months.
Oh, well, Joey D, I don't want to say what the bit is about, but he's got this new bit he's doing now.
It's just, it's just, Like, in all the years that I've been seeing stand-up comedy and doing it, I just never have seen a club like this.
Where it's on fire right now.
Every night is sold out.
The crowds are insane.
It's really weird, man.
It's really weird.
Here's another one.
This is from Thursday, yeah.
Bobby Lee, Tom Papa, Bobby Lee, Eliza, Crystalia, me, Jeselnik, Ron White, Andrew Santino, Joey Diaz, Donnell Rawlings, Jesus Christ, and on and on and on.
I mean, the guy in the second to last spot created one of the shows on NBC that's going into its third season, and the guy who's going dead last had a movie on Comedy Central.
It's also the vibe because of the fact that the store hires all comedians like yourself and like all these other ones that work there.
It's like everybody is one of us.
And many guys have gone from being in the position of being a doorman or working the cover booth or what have you to being like Ari Shafir, perfect example.
Duncan Trussell, perfect example.
They've gone on during the time that I've known them.
Went from starting out to being like super headliners on the road.
It's fascinating.
There's no clubs like that where the employees become the star attraction.